Forever Knight (Season 3 Ep 22) - "Last Knight" - Come in 81 Kilo: A Forever Knight Podcast

Episode Transcript
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Nick (00:01):
I won't leave you. Whatever happens, we'll be
together

Natalie (00:13):
forever.

Matt (00:20):
I'm having a silence, please.

Rachel (00:24):
Thank you for joining us. Matt grabs his microphone at
the exact right moment. Hi. I'mRachel. And I'm Matt.
And this is Come in 81 kilo.

Matt (00:37):
A forever night podcast. This is or this was?

Rachel (01:33):
It still is. It still is. So this is Forever Knight
season 3 episode 22, last night.Nat, right out the gate, I wanna
know thoughts, feelings,emotions. How are you right now?

Matt (01:51):
Last night was wild. I had I stayed up, like, so late. And

Rachel (01:59):
this is not the time for jokes. This is a serious moment.

Matt (02:03):
Exactly the time for jokes.

Rachel (02:04):
It is not. It is do not cover up your pain with humor.

Matt (02:08):
Are the perfect occasion for humor to cover the wound.

Rachel (02:14):
It sounds like you are covering the wound. Let's but
let's, let's peel it back. Thisis a vulnerable place. This is a
safe place. You you can talkabout how you feel.
I'm fucking messed up, so I justneed some validation here right
now.

Matt (02:29):
Much like the end of chapter house Dune Yeah. I was
not satisfied with howeverything was wrapped up.

Rachel (02:38):
Okay. That's fair. That isn't then that was a very
contemporary opinion. Everyonethought this was the the most
fucking bullshit that it everbullshitted on a television
station ever, and we're very,very angry at it. And I think
retrospectively, looking back 30years past when this all
happened, I can see that pointof view.

(03:01):
But also I I mean, we'll get toit at the end, but I feel like I
have mixed feelings about howthis ends because how else do
you wrap this up? How else?

Matt (03:14):
Well, the my main issue is we don't actually see proof that
either of them died.

Rachel (03:23):
Yeah. No. We don't.

Matt (03:26):
So it leaves it

Rachel (03:27):
It's kinda like The Sopranos black screen.

Matt (03:30):
Yes.

Rachel (03:31):
Yeah. It is. And you know what? There's Being Human,
the UK version, and this is abig spoiler. I don't know.
Skip forward, like, 2 minutes.At the very end, everybody gets
everything that they want.

Matt (03:47):
Right.

Rachel (03:48):
Yes.

Matt (03:48):
But the devil can make you dream whatever you want.

Rachel (03:52):
At the very end of the canonical television show, like
the actual show, everybody getswhat they want. All the
supernatural beings get cured.And there is, like, a tiny
snippet you can find online ifyou want to where they realize
that this is all part of thedevil's illusion and they never
actually got cured. But in thetelevision show, if you just

(04:15):
leave it where it is, it endscompletely happy.

Matt (04:18):
Yeah.

Rachel (04:19):
I hate it. I hate it. Like, I fucking hate it. And I
think, oh my god. What if we hadhad a television show where Nick
gets it?
Like, Nick gets to be human.Like, the Nick Natalie thing
works just like the Janet andBob thing worked, and he gets to

Matt (04:37):
be like had, like, oh, fade to black because he and
Natalie are going to the blackfuck sheets. Yeah. And then in
the morning, like, the sun iscoming through the skylight, and
Nick's like, oh, shit. I didn'tclose the skylight. I never

(04:58):
closed the skylight.
But the sun is shining on him,and he doesn't burn. Yeah. And
then boom. We only we would onlyneed, like, 10 frames Yeah. Of
the sun shining on him and himnot burning with, like, a
surprised look on his face andthen black.

Rachel (05:16):
I don't know. I don't know how I would have felt about
that. I think I would have hadso many questions because, you
know, he's gonna keep working inthe force. And Tracy, did does
Tracy still die? Is Tracy stilldead?
And he just killed a guy. He'sgonna lose his job. He's gonna
end up in the life fromcuriouser and curiouser. Maybe.

(05:37):
Fucking his captain, and he getslaid out.
He, like, he gets suspendedbecause he's using too much
force, and he's gonna forgethe's not bulletproof, and he's
gonna get shot on the job, andhe's gonna die.

Matt (05:47):
Is there a Nick and Reese fan fiction?

Rachel (05:52):
You know, I'm not gonna say no. Because over a wide
enough population, thepossibility for everything is
greater than 0. So probably. Imean, we just watched we watched
so Scaredy Cats, which I'vementioned before, is doing, he
did a whole season watch alongof season 1 all in all of

(06:14):
January. And he loves LaCroix,and I love his love for LaCroix
because I also share a deep andabiding love for Lacroix.
So if you look up scaredy cats,SKARDY, on YouTube, Feel free to
go follow him. He did a greatjob covering all of them, and he
has 1 episode where he talksabout Lacroix. And he's like,

(06:37):
are these 2 men having gay sex?Are they how much gay sex? Is it
good gay sex?
Who's the top, and why is itLacroix? And then he's like,
being a vampire is a pansexualfuck fest. That's just science.
Just like it. Anyway, I I thatwas our moment of levity before
we get into the show becausethere is no levity in this

(07:01):
episode.
It was ending, and they wantedit to feel like an end, and it
feels like an end. And it endsthe only way a nineties show can
end, which is with suicide,contemplations of suicide,
actual suicide. We get Murdersuicide? Yeah. Yeah.

(07:26):
It's like suicide by cop.

Matt (07:28):
Or is it assisted suicide by assisted suicide?

Rachel (07:33):
It's suicide by cop, but, like, long distance. Like,
it just took a long time to

Matt (07:37):
get around me. Chained.

Rachel (07:39):
Yeah. It's fine. So, anyway, we open on a tub, like a
tub of water. Yeah. And there'sa woman getting into the tub,
and she's wearing her clothes.
And this is the part where Iknew this was gonna be hard for
Matt because he was like, whyshe have her clothes on. That's
just crazy. Yeah. And we alsoflashed to her leaving this

(08:04):
notebook and addressing it toNatalie, and all of this is
happening while LaCroixmonologues.

Matt (08:10):
But with this, like, wave filter.

Rachel (08:12):
It's this weird kind of underwater almost. Mhmm. And
don't think I didn't notice thatthe skylight is in the
background behind his headbecause the skylight is the
actual villain of the entireseries, not Lacroix.

Matt (08:25):
It's the plot hole. Yeah. The literal that all the plot
comes through

Rachel (08:31):
Literal plot hole.

Matt (08:32):
Straight into this apartment.

Rachel (08:33):
Yeah. Well, this woman in the tub ends up, cutting her
wrists with a scalpel and thensinking down under the water and
then fade to intro. And themonologue that LaCroix LaCroix
is giving over all of this is 1of my favorite the LaCroix
monologues in this episode arelike this is why I love these

(08:59):
old television shows. They didnot have budget. They did not
have special effects.
You are not coming to them forthe for the costume design,
special effects, adaptation,whatever was happening. This is
not foundation. They knew whatthey were, but what they did
have were writers. And everyonce in a while, they had some

(09:24):
really fucking good writers, andyou get some really good
dialogue moments and monologuemoments in forever night and in
a lot of nineties televisionshows. Like, that's 1 of my
favorite things about Babylon 5is how well written all of the
dialogue is.
And so his monologue is like,life is a gift as sweet as a

(09:45):
ripe peach, as precious as agilded jewel. Side note, how
does he know what a peach tasteslike? He wouldn't have had a
peach in Rome, would he have?

Matt (09:56):
He was very well to travel. He was very well
traveled as a Roman general. Sohe may have

Rachel (10:06):
Yeah. But it's native to Northwest China.

Matt (10:11):
He was very

Rachel (10:14):
So well traveled. Yeah.

Matt (10:16):
Okay. Yeah. Probably not then.

Rachel (10:18):
No. Would even Nick would know.

Matt (10:20):
Why Peaches feature so prominently in Journey to the
West.

Rachel (10:25):
Possibly. Yes. But that's okay. It doesn't matter.
I have never been able tounderstand the logic of
willfully surrendering such atreasure, and what is there to
gain?
How dark can your existence bewhen compared to an eternal
void? And this we've discussedbefore, but the concept of

(10:46):
eternal void is literally theonly way a conscious being
consciousness, and then it wouldjust end like, when you go to
sleep and you don't know howmuch time has passed, that's
effectively what but even then,there's a partial awareness of

(11:09):
time passing. Death would youwould assume if there is nothing
after would simply be likeflicking off a light switch.
It's not like you are in an youare in an endless black sea. You
simply do not exist.
But we can't conceive of that.That's a that's actual a
limitation in how ourconsciousness works.

Matt (11:29):
Mhmm.

Rachel (11:30):
So that's not what LaCroix is referencing. We just
wanna throw that out there.Eternal void, not really. More
like just nothing. Blick.
Unless, of course, you havefaith that there's something
beyond, which we kinda discusslater.

Matt (11:49):
Or first hand experience.

Rachel (11:51):
I know. Right? Okay. Yeah. Yeah.
What do you see from where youstand? A bright light at the end
of the tunnel? Is it a ray ofhope? A glimmer of something
better, or will it burn you likethe rising sun? Is that sound
you're hearing, the trumpetingof Saint Peter's angels, or the
scream of Mennonox torturedsouls?

(12:16):
Did he make all this up on thefly, or has he been scripting
this in his head for this momentfor a real long time?

Matt (12:22):
Well, that's why he's been podcasting. He's been practicing
his ad hoc existential infodope. Yeah. Looking up, Memnock.

Rachel (12:35):
But I love the last line. Don't trade a treasure for
an empty box. That's a reallypowerful monologue, especially
considering that the subjectmatter of this entire episode is
the contemplation of suicide

Matt (12:57):
Right.

Rachel (12:58):
Which we've discussed before. This is sort of the
underlying elephant in the roomof the whole quest for mortality
thing, which is if it is so hardto be a vampire and you can't
stop being a vampire, why don'tyou just stop being? And we

(13:19):
gloss over that question a lot.Well, he loves life. Okay.
Well, that's great. No. I'm I'mtotally behind that. That's
fine. Sometimes it's because thevampire survival instinct is too
strong, and so they can't killthemselves.
And I don't mind that 1 either,But it is a question. If Nick is
so tortured, how has he made it800 years? And I think that's a

(13:44):
question on Laquotte's mind too.And I think that's why we get
the lines that we get from himat the very end of this episode,
which we will talk about when weget there because it has to have
occurred to him that this was apossibility, that there might
come a time when it was so hardfor Nick to be what he was that

(14:06):
he didn't wanna be anymore. AndI think that's why he does all
the shit that he does to Nickbecause he's constantly pushing
him.
He's constantly making him angryinstead of sad and cause it
like, forcing him to questionhis, like, ideas, to question

(14:26):
who he is, to question how hemoves through the world. Does he
do a real bad job of itsometimes? Yeah. But all parents
do. I mean Does

Matt (14:38):
he respond to at least 30% of Nick's emotional bids?

Rachel (14:42):
Yeah. He responds to all of them, just not positively.
Right. Yeah. Yeah.
No. He's picking it up. He'sjust not putting it back down
the way that Nick wants him to.And it's just the way that we
pivoted the Nick LaCroixrelationship in the last 3
episodes gives this 1 so muchimpact. I can't believe it was

(15:04):
not planned, That they didn'twant this final moment between
Nick and LaCroix to hit, and ithits.
But after we come back from theintro, we're at the scene. It's
not really a crime scene.There's no crime in this
episode. This woman needed help.She didn't get the help she

(15:27):
needed, and here we are.

Matt (15:29):
Oh, the crime was addressing the suicide notebook
to Natalie.

Rachel (15:35):
I have feelings about that too. I do because I get
where this woman was going.Natalie had been a friend. She
saw herself in Natalie, and shedidn't want Natalie to do what
she had done. So she was tellingshe was trying to present

(15:56):
herself as a cautionary tale,but she didn't check-in with
Natalie first.
We've we have had conversationswith Natalie in the past where
she has expressed suicidalthoughts.

Matt (16:10):
Right.

Rachel (16:11):
And this woman was a psychiatrist. She didn't
check-in to see if Natalie wasalready having suicidal ideation
before she gave her socialpermission to go ahead and do it
and then address this notebookto her, which everyone lets her
keep this notebook. And I getthat you can't, like what are

(16:31):
you gonna do? Rip it fromNatalie's hands, but also, like,
you could, quote, check it intoevidence. You could separate it
from her for a little while togive her some breathing space.
You you all can see that she isobviously struggling, And we
make cracks about the fact thatnobody cares about Natalie all
the time because it kinda feelslike like nobody does, but this
feels like blatant neglect.

Matt (16:53):
Yeah. Reckless endangerment.

Rachel (16:55):
She wasn't offered counseling. She was allowed to
keep the suicide note that wasaddressed to her, and I yeah.
I'm I'm big mad at her friendfor giving her this. Of course,
her friend didn't know that herbiffle like, her her love
interest was a vampire who hadbeen ignoring her for 6 years.

(17:17):
She couldn't know that, but theyhad been out of contact for
years.
And then all of a sudden, out ofnowhere, she writes her this
letter, and she's like, thiswill help Natalie. Natalie will
do what it takes to get a lifenow. Of course, she's not
thinking. She's not thinkingrationally. She's not making
rational decisions right now.

(17:38):
Yeah. And I don't know because Ihave complicated feelings about
suicide or, like, I just havecomplicated feelings about all
of this because I can understandthere are situations where life
is too painful, and there is noway out. And having gone through

(18:02):
several family members who havegone through extended extended
illnesses knowing they werenever gonna get better, they
were only gonna get worse, andthat at a certain point, they
were gonna be unable to evencognitively understand the the
load that they would place ontheir loved ones, and there
being no way out except through.And that is hard. And of course,

(18:28):
there's lots of people thatwould still choose to do that
because yeah.
Did we have great times with mydad after he had dementia? Heck,
yeah. 1 time he sat in a laundrybasket, and it was the funniest
thing. And we all laughed, andhe laughed. And it was really
funny, and it was really sweet.
And those were great memories,and I wouldn't have had them,
but I can understand where therewould be a situation where

(18:49):
suicide is maybe not the answer,but should be offered as an
option. And yet, we get thingslike this where this woman
clearly needed help. She neededsomeone to talk to, and if in
the end, she felt that there wasno other way out, okay, but then
don't drag Natalie into it. Doesthat make sense?

Matt (19:10):
Yeah. Yeah.

Rachel (19:12):
Oh, and we kinda went back and forth on the Discord
about this a little bit becausedoes this make Laura a bad
friend? I don't think it makesher a bad friend. I think it
makes her a bad psychiatrist. Ithink it makes her a, I don't
check-in with my make it maybe aneglectful friend.

Matt (19:33):
Like A bad communicator?

Rachel (19:35):
Yeah. It's just, you know what, she didn't make sure
this was the moment. She didn'tcheck-in. She just was like,
this is I know what's right, andI'm gonna do it. And okay.
I'm just gonna leave that there.There's no solution for that. It
just is what it is. But we findNick and he's comforting
Natalie, and she's holding thenotebook because, of course, it
was addressed to her. And hegoes over and talks to Tracy,

(19:58):
and Tracy's like, she was apsychiatrist.
I'm guessing no 1 saw thiscoming. And Nick goes, yeah. Not
even her closest friends, whichokay. If this if Natalie was her
closest friend and she hadn'ttalked to her in years, this
woman was way more isolated thanNatalie.

Matt (20:16):
Right. Because at least Natalie has, peers that she
communicates with.

Rachel (20:23):
Yeah.

Matt (20:23):
And if this lady was practicing as a psychiatrist,
like, in a private practice, shemay not have had peers. She may
have only had patients.

Rachel (20:36):
Yeah.

Matt (20:36):
Yeah.

Rachel (20:37):
And Nick kinda looks meaningfully at Nat implying
that she's the, quote, closestfriend. And then he goes, guess
you really never know yourfriends, do you? And Tracy goes,
no. I guess not. Tracy just lostVashon.
She doesn't know she killed him,but she knows he's gone. He

(20:58):
moved on. She just basically gotghosted by her boyfriend.
Literally, he's like a ghostnow. But he got go she got
ghosted by her boyfriend.
And, like, oh my god. And thenall of a sudden, this is
happening. She's gotta be in nota great place either. And we
get, like, a tiny little glimpseof that in just a second. 1 with

(21:19):
this, no.
I guess not, which is thisreally sad line and also
foreshadowing because shedoesn't know what shit about
Nick. She thinks she knows a lotabout Nick, but guess what? Not
really.

Matt (21:33):
He's got a secret.

Rachel (21:34):
Yeah. And Nick goes, can you finish up here? And Tracy's
like, yeah. That's fine. That'sk.
I can do that. And so Nick takesNatalie out of the scene because
she's struggling, and he seesthat. And he's the most
emotionally intelligent personin this entire episode, so it it
tracks. And then Tracy whispers

Matt (21:52):
Who is? Nick. Nick. Yeah.

Rachel (21:55):
Yeah. Nick, maybe Lacroix. Lacroix is like, just
assume Lacroix takes, like, youknow, s position, like, top, and
then Right. Then we compete forthe 1 below that. And Tracy just
goes, sure.
Like, what else was I gonna say?No. Don't go. Leave Natalie here
because she's sad that herboyfriend just left, and there's

(22:16):
Nick over there being loveydovey with Nat and, like,
kissing her on the forehead. Andit's gotta hurt, but she had
this guy and he was they weretogether, and then he left.
And here's Nick with this womanwho obviously loves him that he
is doing nothing about.

Matt (22:33):
Right.

Rachel (22:33):
And Tracy's not dumb. She sees them. She sees them not
being together and that has tohurt too. And then we cut to
Nick and Natalie in the morgue,and Natalie is reading a part of
the note that was left to her.And it's like, do as I ask, not
as I've done.
Don't let yourself become empty.And Natalie goes, you know, I've

(22:57):
never lost a friend like that.I've never had a suicide note
addressed to me. Guess this is anight of firsts.

Natalie (23:04):
Do as I ask, not as I've done. Don't let yourself
become empty. First time I'velost someone to suicide. It's
the first time I've had asuicide not addressed to me, a
night of firsts.

Rachel (23:18):
1st and last. Night of firsts.

Matt (23:22):
Yeah.

Rachel (23:22):
And then it's actually her last night. And Natalie
goes, you know, she knew I was akindred spirit. That's why she
sent this to me. I mean, how didshe know that? You guys weren't
in communication.

Matt (23:39):
Right. I can see where Laura had this connection with
Natalie years ago, like, whenthey were in school,

Rachel (23:49):
I guess.

Matt (23:51):
But and maybe that's, like, the last close
relationship that she had.

Rachel (23:57):
I mean, Natalie used to have people in the morgue that
would come in like Grace, andover time, we filtered them out.
So, yeah, she is kind of aloneright now. But

Matt (24:10):
Yeah. But I don't know that Laura would have known
that.

Rachel (24:13):
Yeah. That's what like, how if they're out of touch, how
did she know that Natalie neededthis?

Matt (24:19):
Right. And maybe she's just writing a letter

Rachel (24:24):
didn't need this.

Matt (24:26):
Maybe she's just writing a letter to the version of Natalie
that she knew back when theywere friends. And

Rachel (24:35):
Yeah. You know, I think that's probably a good summary
of it is that she remembers theversion of Natalie that she was
friends with, and she thinksthat that version of Natalie
will respond positively to this.

Matt (24:47):
Yeah.

Rachel (24:48):
And she's just not in a place where she's checking in to
make sure that her mental modelof Natalie is still accurate.
But Nick, actually, he clocksinto the fact that she is,
putting out some emotional bidsalmost immediately. And he's
like, reep, reep, reep. Like,damage control mode because he's

(25:09):
like, Natalie, she took her ownlife because she had really big
problems. And Natalie's like,okay.
You know, I used to think thatsuicide was a sacrilege, but now
I don't know.

Matt (25:25):
She's seen some shit.

Rachel (25:26):
Yeah. And Nick goes, do not talk like that, Natalie. I
don't wanna hear that. AndNatalie's like, oh, okay. Well,
you've thought about yourself.
I mean, what do you think thequest for mortality is? Not
everyone commits suicidequickly.

Matt (25:46):
Right.

Rachel (25:49):
And what is a quest for mortality, but asking for the
ability to die? Because rightnow, he can only die violently.

Matt (26:02):
Right.

Rachel (26:03):
And he doesn't wanna die violently but he does wanna die.
That's what the quest formortality is. But what we put in
here is a flashback to last act,which last act is the season 1
episode 4 episode where hisformer lover has taken her own
life because she felt like shewas no longer contributing to

(26:24):
society. And he goes on a bit ofa tailspin, and this is the
section when he comes back tohis apartment, and he's acting
very cavalier with his ownpersonal safety. And Natalie has
to, like, push him out of thesunlight, and he's just being
really he's really acting likeit doesn't matter.
Like, he wouldn't care whathappened to him. And Natalie

(26:46):
confronts him about it, and hesays, you know, I lost an old
friend the other day. And thisis when he Natalie says, well,
how long did you know them? Andhe was like, oh, I don't know.
300 years, something like that.
And she's like, old friend withyou takes on a new whole new
meaning. And this is the sectionwhere he has, like, the doll,
and it this is this that wholeepisode was him confronting the

(27:08):
idea of should I take my ownlife? Is that a form of
mortality that I feelcomfortable with? Then
ultimately, he decides no, andhe moves on, so to speak, to a
more, like, a slower form. Idon't know what to do.
He doesn't decide to walk out tothe sun that day. That's what he

(27:29):
decides. Right. And then we comeback to what's actually
happening in the episode, andNick is like, maybe you
shouldn't work on this case,Natalie.

Matt (27:39):
Which fair? She shouldn't.

Rachel (27:41):
No shit.

Matt (27:43):
They her boss shouldn't let her work on this case. But
as far as we know, Natalie doesnot have a boss.

Rachel (27:49):
I don't know if she's the head coroner. If she is, she
may not. But she would have,like, the the city commissioners
or something who could say, no.You gotta be off this. You're
too close.
But Natalie says, no. Like, Iowe her this. I can handle it. I
can handle doing this to her. Ican handle doing this to a
friend, but what I can't handleis that I understand her, and

(28:15):
that scares me to death.

Nick (28:18):
Maybe you shouldn't do the work on this case.

Natalie (28:21):
You know, Laura never reached out to me in life for
help. I owe her this much. Tosee that everything is properly
done now that she's gone. I canhandle it, but you know what I
can't handle? I think that Iunderstand her, and that scares
me to death.

Rachel (28:42):
Because she gets it. It doesn't feel mystifying. She
understands it, and that is apowerful line. It's like, it's
not her saying, I've thoughtabout doing this. It's, oh, wow.
I see where she's coming from,and I don't know how that fits

(29:02):
into how I feel about myself andhow I feel about my life. And
then we cut to Reese and Tracyat the precinct, and Reese is
like, well, how's Natalietalking to Tracy? And Tracy is
like, not well. The wholesuicide note addressed to her
was kind of a dick move. SoTracy's on our side.
Yeah. And she tells Reese,listen. There was no sign of

(29:27):
foul play. No 1 disagrees withwhat happened here. So can I
just wrap this up early and gohome?
I I don't feel great. And then ascreaming guy comes out from the
back, and we find out that thisis a transfer that they're
holding for pickup. And he'slike, I don't wanna go back, and
he's just shouting reallyloudly. And Reese kinda gets in

(29:47):
his face, and he goes, you knowwhat? You settle down.
I'm gonna have you cuffed. Thisdude should be cuffed.

Matt (29:53):
Why is this guy not

Rachel (29:54):
already cuffed? Man not already cuffed? This guy is
clearly showing, like, violent,chaotic tendencies. He should be

Matt (30:02):
He's already resistant. Yeah. So need to restrain him.

Rachel (30:07):
Yeah. Yeah. What are you gonna restrain him with? A harsh
look? This man needs, like heneeds to not be able to use his
hands.

Matt (30:13):
Reese wrote him a strongly written letter Yeah. And
expected it to work.

Rachel (30:19):
Yeah. Expect my complaint in the mail if you
don't quit doing what you'redoing. It's I get it. I get why
we don't do it because it leadsto where it ultimately leads to,
but also, like, would it havekilled them to cuff him so that
they didn't have to keep pushinghim around and slamming him in
the walls and shit? We go backto Nick and Natalie at the

(30:42):
morgue, and Nick is holding thisjournal.
And he goes, you know what? It'samazing how something so
personal can become just a pieceof evidence. And Natalie goes,
it's not just evidence to me. Ithink Nick was like, Wow. Look
at this thing.
It's just evidence now. We don'tneed to keep reading it and

(31:02):
talking about it, Natalie. AndNatalie's like, oh, no. No. No.

Matt (31:04):
Oh, you think Nick was making an attempt to

Rachel (31:07):
I think he was just gonna think to distance her from
it. Yeah. To to create, like, averbal distance. Like, you know,
she's gone, and the this is herjournal and, yes, it was
addressed to you, but in the endof the day, it's just evidence.
Like, it's not it doesn't haveto be the Bible by which you
live your life, and it doesn'thave to determine your
decisions, and we don't have tobelabor this anymore because

Matt (31:29):
Right. Just like not everything you read on the
Internet is true, not even Iguess, most of these thoughts
that pop into your head, notnecessarily true. Yeah. The
things you read from anemotional, former friend. Not

(31:51):
necessarily true even if theyare emotionally significant.
So Natalie, I guess, needs tomaintain some emotional
distance, some not necessarilyskepticism, but, you know, read
into it with the context of thiswas an emotionally troubled

(32:14):
person

Nick (32:15):
Yeah.

Matt (32:15):
Who wrote this.

Rachel (32:17):
And I think Natalie's troubled right now. She's in a
vulnerable place, and this isspeaking to her in a way that
Nick does not feel comfortablewith. And so he's trying to
objectify it for her.

Matt (32:28):
Yeah.

Rachel (32:29):
He's trying to you know, this is just a journal, Natalie.

Matt (32:31):
Just like all the other cases that you've handled, this
is just another personal effectfor the person whose case you
are handling.

Rachel (32:38):
Yep. And now it is just evidence just like all other
personal effects, end up asevidence. And she's like, not
this time. I'm not willing tolet it go. It's, it's basically,
I'm not willing to let this goyet.
Yeah. And she says, you know,years ago, we used to get
together and we would talk forhours, but only about our
careers. Our personal lives werenonexistent. And once we

(33:02):
realized that, we lost touch.This is when you start a
podcast, can confirm, when youfind you are only talking about
work or the kids and you don'tinteract otherwise.
Highly recommend, just go aheadand

Matt (33:16):
start podcasting. Get a shared hobby Yeah. With with a
an acquaintance, a close friend,a stranger with a shared
interest, or a spouse.

Rachel (33:31):
Or a Patreon member. I just you know, if you're a good
friend and you're you find thatyou're only talking about 1
thing, then do you just go,well, this relationship isn't
working, or do you take the timeto go, hey, Natalie. We're gonna
hang out today. We're gonna gosee a movie, and then we are we

(33:53):
can talk and but we cannot talkabout work.

Matt (33:56):
Right.

Rachel (33:59):
And maybe we work together and we support each
other to try to find morefriends and maybe branch out,
and maybe we create a life forourselves.

Matt (34:09):
You can do a shared activity that you then relate
with each other about, or youcan say, okay. Instead of
spending time together today,let's each spend time apart
doing something where each mutelike, individually interested
in, and then we get togethertomorrow.

Rachel (34:31):
Yeah. And We

Matt (34:32):
talk about it.

Rachel (34:33):
About it.

Matt (34:33):
Yeah. Yeah.

Rachel (34:34):
Let's let's join a cooking class. Let's go to the
library and sign up for a bookclub. Let's let's figure this
out, instead of just being like,well, you're a bummer. I don't
wanna be with another downer. Idon't wanna be with another
Debbie Downer.

Matt (34:48):
Bye, Felicia.

Rachel (34:49):
Bye, Felicia. I just I have a feeling that the problems
with Laura started long before,and that Natalie just didn't
have the she didn't have a wayof seeing it. And then by the
time it would have becomeobvious to her so that she would
have seen it, they were nolonger in touch. And then when

(35:09):
it comes back and she finds thisjournal and she gets this
letter, it feels extremelysudden, and I doubt it was very
sudden. It was just that thiswas the you know, them her
ghosting Natalie because Nataliereminded her too much of herself
was probably the beginning of aspiral that ended in where we

(35:30):
are now.

Matt (35:32):
Yeah.

Rachel (35:32):
And the only reason it feels sudden to Natalie is
because she had lost contact forso long. And Natalie says, you
know, her leaving me this noteand her journal was so that I
would learn from her mistakes.It's my wake up call. It's time
to get a life. And Nick goes,you have a life.
You have got 1.

Nick (35:53):
You've got 1, and it's not empty.

Natalie (35:57):
Not now. 6 years ago, April 14th.

Nick (36:03):
What's that?

Natalie (36:05):
Day they brought you in.

Rachel (36:07):
And I think what Natalie is saying is I need a lot. I
need a life. I need somethingthat isn't work. I need a hobby.
I need friends.
I need someone who loves me asmuch as I love them, and what
Nick is hearing is, you are notenough. You don't count because

(36:30):
you aren't giving me what Iwant.

Matt (36:33):
Right. He's not really in a reciprocal relationship with
Natalie.

Rachel (36:37):
Yeah. It's a very

Matt (36:40):
He wants to be, but he's deliberately stopping it from
developing.

Rachel (36:44):
Where it almost feels accusatory on Natalie's part
where she's like, no. I don'thave a life. And it's like, Nick
is there. Nick is giving allNick can give. The fact that
Nick has continued hisrelationship with her as long as
he has, even though it's aplatonic relationship, is that
is as close to intimacy as he iscomfortable giving her.

(37:07):
And instead of recognizing thathe's never gonna be able to give
more than that, and then, well,I guess a couple times she tried
to move on. But it ends up likehe isn't giving me what I want,
and so I'm going to discount himcompletely. Like, there has to
be some sexual tension here or

Matt (37:27):
it doesn't count. Expecting him to fulfill her
emotional needs even though hehas communicated, I can't do
that for you. Yeah. Clearly,repeatedly. And she hasn't
looked anywhere else.

Rachel (37:44):
Yeah. To be fair, the last couple times she looked,
they were like serial killers

Matt (37:48):
and stuff. Yeah. And so She does have a type. At a
certain point, you can make theclaim that you don't have the
chance. Like, you don't have theopportunity.
You don't have the capacityanymore to to do the thing. And
it's not anybody's fault. It'sjust circumstance. It's

Rachel (38:11):
Well, why is the only, quote, life she's supposed to
get romantic life? That's theonly thing we focus on. Oh,
Natalie doesn't have

Matt (38:21):
a boyfriend.

Rachel (38:22):
Natalie doesn't have a boyfriend. Oh, I mean, okay.
Lots of people move through lifewithout a significant other, and
they have what 1 would considera life.

Matt (38:33):
On the other hand, most people need at least a couple,
like, close personal friends tofulfill your emotional needs.
And they need to

Rachel (38:44):
be like relationship. Relationship. Right. Yeah.

Matt (38:47):
But Natalie doesn't have any other clusters.

Rachel (38:50):
There is a spectrum of intimacy. There is emotional
intimacy sans physical intimacy.There is physical intimacy
without emotional intimacy.

Matt (38:59):
Made some friends at the what was the conference she went
to? Oh, the coroner'sconference.

Rachel (39:06):
Yeah. And she's like, oh, it's a bunch of coroners in
a room. I don't know. It wasn'tthat great. It doesn't have to
be about work.
It doesn't have to be acoroner's conference.

Matt (39:15):
But I what are what is her hobby? Her her special interest
is vampires.

Rachel (39:21):
But it's not like it's gonna get air dropped to her
house or something. You go outand you find the thing. You
start the podcast. You make thefriends. You do

Matt (39:31):
the shit. Have become a guest on LaCroix podcast.

Rachel (39:35):
Exactly.

Matt (39:37):
Yeah. And she could have built a community around that.
Yep. I mean, the

Rachel (39:42):
1 time she went to the bar and tried to meet people,
the guy took her home and almostraped her, so that didn't work
out either.

Matt (39:49):
Yeah. And then the guy she raped too.

Rachel (39:51):
If we unpack this for too long, we're gonna get a lot
of Natalie trauma on the plate.Okay? So we can't keep going for
too long. I mean, Natalie has alot of reasons why she doesn't
branch out. And when Nick islike, you have 1, she's like, I
mean, yeah, kinda.
And then she goes, 6 years agoon April 14th. So, y'all, April
14th is forever night this week.April 14th, 6 years ago, which

(40:17):
means it's really interestingthat they used the date. Like,
they included the interveningyears that the show was off the
air because it was 2 years itwas, like, 2 years prior when we
watched Only the Lonely, andthat was in 1992. Yes.
And this is 1996, so theyactually count the all 6 years.

Matt (40:42):
Right.

Rachel (40:43):
As if the time in between seasons was, like, shit
was happening. We just weren'tgetting video of it. But Nick
doesn't know. He didn't knowtheir anniversary. He's like,
well, what?
What happened 6 years ago? Imean, time is meaningless to
him. So Yeah.

Matt (40:57):
For 6 years for him is like is like her saying, yeah.
Remember 5 and a quarter monthsago when this thing happened?
Yeah. No. I'd Yeah.
I don't remember.

Rachel (41:08):
I just read The Last Unicorn by Peter s Beagle, and
there's a section where he'sdescribing how time feels to the
unicorn because the unicorn isimmortal. And, he ends up
describing it as, like, there'sno sense of passage, so
everything feels like 1 longday. And so she literally cannot

(41:29):
remember how long it has beensince she's had contact with
another unicorn because itdoesn't feel like any time has
passed since she had a contactwith the last unicorn that she
talked to. But time she knowstime has passed because she
understands time as a concept,but she can't feel the passage
of time. Yeah.
And so she has no metric forunderstanding except in the

(41:52):
abstract, and it has to kindafeel like that. Like, 6 years
ago, I don't know. Was that,like, Wednesday? Oh, it

Matt (41:57):
I have some experience with this.

Rachel (41:59):
You're like, oh, so he's like, they're all ADHD. I got
it.

Matt (42:03):
Time blindness is a thing. There's right now, there's,
like, recently, which can comefrom, like, a couple weeks. And
then there's before that, whichis what all 1 long blur.

Rachel (42:18):
Or last yesterday.

Matt (42:19):
I was I was thinking about Anchors.

Rachel (42:31):
Okay.

Matt (42:32):
Like, time anchors.

Rachel (42:33):
Okay. Like tent poles.

Matt (42:35):
So 1 of the ways that I keep track of, like, what time
range did something happen in,Like, when I remember something,
I can remember context of whatwhat was going on around then.
So when I, like, when I'mremembering something, I can

(42:57):
remember some context of whatelse was happening in my life at
the time. I I can't necessarilyput things in order very well,
but I can remember, like, whenthis happened, where was I
living? And having moved a lotin my life, it gives me these

(43:20):
nice, like, 1 to 4 year chunks

Rachel (43:23):
Yeah.

Matt (43:23):
That when I remember something, oh, I know I was
living here at the time, andI've memorized I guess, I've
memorized the dates for when Imoved to different places

(43:44):
because I've applied for somethings

Nick (43:49):
Yeah.

Matt (43:49):
And, like, security clearance, whatever.

Rachel (43:51):
You gotta put your You

Matt (43:52):
have to

Rachel (43:53):
last 10 years of addresses.

Matt (43:54):
Spreadsheet of every time I've moved and the relevant
addresses for the moves, andI've had to, like, reference
this spreadsheet often enoughthat I can remember, like, oh, I
lived in this place between thisyear and this year. And and I
was thinking a couple weeks agothat it was it's actually really

(44:19):
useful for me to move every fewyears because then that it puts
bounds on Yeah. Okay. I'm havinga memory. When that happened, I
was living here.
So I know it happened between,like, 2016 and 2020. Yeah. Maybe

(44:42):
that's what it was like for theunicorn a little bit.

Rachel (44:45):
Yeah. Except she lives in the same forest.

Matt (44:47):
Exactly. For her. Yeah. She never lived.

Rachel (44:50):
And it's also probably like Nick. Nick, it's like 30
year chunks. Like

Nick (44:53):
Yes.

Rachel (44:54):
If I'm in a place for oh, that was when I was in
Singapore the first time. Okay.Well, that's, you know,
whatever. So we get the wholeonly the lonely flashback
because Natalie's like, oh, thatwas the day they brought you in.
And we get him coming in in thebody bag.
They actually clip all theflashback clips together, and we

(45:14):
get the whole thing. We get himcoming in. We get his cheek
healing. We don't get the bloodgoing back into the body bag.
Right.
And we get the him drinking fromhis Capri Sun juice pouch while
making really uncomfortable eyecontact the whole time. What are
you? Something very differentfrom you. The whole thing. And
then we come back, and Natalie'slike, my life changed that day,

(45:34):
and I don't wanna end up likeLaura, Nick.
And Nick says, I won't let you.

Matt (45:45):
That's that's not your call.

Rachel (45:46):
This is a fallacy. You can be there for your friends.
You can support your friends.You can go out of your way for
your friends, and you should,but you ultimately have no
control over other people'semotional states.

Matt (46:01):
Right. This is

Rachel (46:02):
I can provide you with the opportunity to be happy, but
I cannot make you happy.

Matt (46:08):
I would say this that's a maybe not gaslighting. Any kind,
anytime you're you are tellingsomebody what emotion they are
feeling or what their motivationwas, like, you are making
statements about their emotionaltheir internal state, that's

(46:29):
that's, like, the worst way tohave any kind of conversation.
They either have to squash theirown feelings and agree with you

Rachel (46:38):
Yeah. They have to make a liar out of themselves.
Themselves. Make a liar out ofyou.

Matt (46:41):
Or they have to call you a liar. Yeah. And so that's not a
way to have a a good conversethat's not a way to really have
a conversation. You just end upin an argument.

Rachel (46:53):
You end up not being able to be truthful with each
other. Right. And when Nick islike, I won't let you, she fires
back.

Matt (46:58):
Yeah. He's kinda gaslighting her.

Rachel (47:00):
Well, no. She fires back with, okay. Then it's real
simple. You just have to love meas much as I love you.

Natalie (47:11):
I don't wanna end up like Laura, Nick.

Nick (47:14):
I won't let you out.

Natalie (47:16):
Well, then it's simple. You just have to love me as much
as I love you.

Matt (47:24):
Which is a banger.

Rachel (47:26):
Natalie. Hot damn. She said the quiet part out loud,
y'all, After

Matt (47:33):
You know what's going on in my head? Alright.

Rachel (47:35):
Okay. Fine. Oh, no. You're gonna you're gonna save
me from myself? Cool.
Here's the road map right here.You just gotta actually love me.
And Nick looks fuckingterrified.

Matt (47:47):
As he should.

Rachel (47:48):
That face is like, oh, shit. Oh, shit. But luckily,
saved by the bell. Ring. Ring.
Telephone. And so he picks uphis phone. Natalie looks pissed.
Like, she can't believe he justanswered his phone, but he is on
call. He is on call.

Matt (48:04):
Right. But she's she just gained control of the
conversation. Yeah. And then hisphone rings.

Rachel (48:13):
Right. And we actually fade to black, and here we go to
a commercial break. And when wecome back, we get another weird
Lacroix filming thing where he'smonologuing again. And this is
the 1 where he's like, love. Itwarps our senses, twists our
souls, can take us past hope,past cure, past help.

(48:34):
He's got a lot to say aboutlove. Heaven makes means to kill
our joy with love, and yet wemust have it at any cost.

Matt (48:47):
I know about love. It's suffering, it's anguish, It's
pain. Heaven makes means to killour joy with love, And yet we
must have it at any cost. Butare you so enamored that you

(49:08):
will overlook your love of life?And you do love it.
I've seen you snow the sea, gazeat the stars at night. Are you
willing to sacrifice 1 mistressfor another? Look into your
heart and tell me that you'rewilling to make the choice.

Rachel (49:32):
And this is really good because what he's saying is, you
have to choose between your lifeor your love. Your love of your
life or this kind of love. Which1 will you choose? Because you
have to sacrifice 1 mistress foranother. Because as a vampire,

(49:52):
you don't get to have your cakeand eat it too because you only
wanna eat the fucking cake.
You don't just wanna have it.Right. So if you decide to love
her, you will kill her. You willharm her. And then you will
never feel the same way aboutyour life as you did before.

(50:14):
I know. I fucking know becausestars are the only comforting
light, motherfucker. I lostFleur because I chose to leave
her. My love was strong enoughto leave her behind, which I
think we actually get aflashback.

Matt (50:33):
Yes. We get a flashback with Flurb. Yeah.

Rachel (50:37):
And Nick tells Natalie, you know I can't do that. I
cannot love you. You do notunderstand. Natalie has never
fully understood what Nick wastalking about when he tried to
explain what it's like to be avampire. She either is willfully

(50:58):
not willing to understand him,but also her insistence that
this is a physical condition andnot a metaphysical condition
means she is looking at it likea set of needs.
Yeah. Like, you have a disease.It requires a specific kind of
medication, but it doesn'tchange who you are
fundamentally. Get over it.Except, it is obviously not just

(51:24):
a physical condition.
Motherfucker can fly y'all. If Igot a cold and suddenly I could
levitate, I would be so happy.That's not how that works. And
yet, she she insists that thisis a physical condition,
physical only, and that is howshe's going to cure it. And when
she she literally blockseverything out in her mind so

(51:48):
that she has never fullyunderstood what he goes through
to be with her.
Even when she had him turn herbrother into a vampire and he
immediately started doing thekinds of things that he would
never have done when he wasalive. She was like, wow. I
didn't know he had that in him.He didn't. He didn't until Nick
put it in there.

(52:09):
Do you not get that, Natalie?And yet she she just never has.
And so this is another momentwhere she fundamentally
misunderstands. He's trying totell her, I do love you. That's
why I'm not with you.

Matt (52:22):
I love you enough to keep you safe from me.

Rachel (52:26):
Yeah. And I think what she's thinking is, well,
Janette, look what look whatJanet did with Bob. And it's
like, yeah. But that was a risk.That was risky.
And And Jeanette is not Nick.

Matt (52:43):
Right. And we know that Jeanette is a risk taker.

Rachel (52:50):
Yeah. And she's she is a different vampire from Nick.
Right. So

Matt (52:58):
And women have differences from men.

Rachel (53:03):
I wasn't gonna say anything about it.

Matt (53:05):
Oh, okay. I mean, like, personality wise

Rachel (53:09):
Yeah.

Matt (53:10):
Somebody who is temper temperamentally masculine and
someone who is temperamentallyfeminine, which Nick and
Jennette are kind of archetypalmasculine and feminine Yeah.
Temperamentally, they are verydifferent personalities. Yeah.

(53:32):
So there are things thatJeanette, as a very
temperamentally feminine person,there's things that she can do
that Nick cannot do.

Rachel (53:43):
Right.

Matt (53:43):
They're not available to him.

Rachel (53:45):
She's also spent a lot more time learning to control
her herself when she's drinkinghuman blood.

Matt (53:54):
There are some statements in the show that when Nick goes
to her Okay. To talk aboutturning somebody, it's just like

Rachel (54:04):
Think of it this way.

Matt (54:04):
I've never been able to hold back.

Rachel (54:07):
Alright. Think of it this way. Okay? You eat a lot of
chocolate. You eat chocolateevery single day.
If you get special talkchocolate and you have 10 pieces
and they tell you you can onlyeat 5, it's gonna be really easy
for you to only eat 5 becauseyou get chocolate every day. If
you only eat carrots, you eatnothing but carrots and somebody

(54:29):
gives you 10 pieces of specialchocolate and says you only can
eat 5 pieces of chocolate andyou haven't eaten chocolate in
so long, you forgot how fuckinggood chocolate tasted, you're
gonna eat all 10 pieces ofchocolate.

Matt (54:40):
He didn't he didn't have any problem turning Natalie's
brother even though he had notbeen drinking his blood.

Rachel (54:47):
Look. Listen.

Matt (54:49):
He had not killed anybody with his teeth for a 100 years.

Rachel (54:52):
I know. I know. And I'm sorry to tell you this, and I
really but forever night can'tkeep a shit together. Okay,
honey? It just can't.
And that doesn't reduce myenjoyment of it in the
slightest. However, the factthat Nick is successful, all the
time except, every other Tuesday

Matt (55:14):
is He chokes with the ones he loves.

Rachel (55:17):
He does. Yeah. He didn't know Richard.

Matt (55:19):
I think the last

Rachel (55:20):
name was Richard. He didn't know Richard.

Matt (55:22):
It was no other person that he had attempt okay. Okay.
Every other person that he hassuccessfully turned, like, he
just met him on Thursday orwhatever.

Rachel (55:34):
Yeah. He didn't have any involvement. It was fine.

Matt (55:37):
The 2 people that he did try to turn that he was actually
in love with.

Rachel (55:40):
That's because the hungers get conflated. Okay?
That's because the

Matt (55:45):
hungers don't they I I brought up I brought up this
topic the other day. It wascalled?

Rachel (55:57):
Dimorphous expressions. Yes. I'll eat you up. I love you
so?

Matt (56:02):
Yes. And it's a psychological phenomenon where

Rachel (56:08):
Cute aggression.

Matt (56:09):
Yes. Yeah. Cute aggression is, like, the most common
dimorphous expression, and it'swhere, like, your internal
representation of something isexpressed with the opposite
seeming emotion. Yeah. And soyou see a cute baby, and you

(56:34):
express it as I want to eat thisthing.

Rachel (56:37):
Or I wanna squeeze it so hard.

Matt (56:39):
Right. Yeah. Because it's so cute. Right. You see a fluffy
kitten.
I want to hug you and squeezeyou.

Rachel (56:49):
Yeah. And name you, George.

Matt (56:52):
And and so Meg said, that is very apt for a show about
vampires where the the urge thehungers get conflated.

Rachel (57:09):
Get yeah. They get all mixed up. Yeah. 1 hunger feels
much like the other. A hungerfor a person feels like hunger
for their blood.
It all kind of runs together. Soit's almost better if he doesn't
know the person.

Matt (57:21):
Okay. So there's there's 3 types of love.

Rachel (57:23):
Okay. Right. No. No. I'm here.
I am

Matt (57:28):
there's platonic love.

Rachel (57:30):
Yes.

Matt (57:32):
I forget what the technical name or the, like,
Greek names are. I know it'seros and agape.

Rachel (57:38):
And then 1 other 1.

Matt (57:41):
But eros is the root of erotic. Yeah. But eros is a,
like, consumptive love,consumption love. And it's
Consuming love. And it's relatedto, like, I'm consuming this
tasty food.
Yeah. I'm consuming, like like,I'm having that person.

Rachel (58:05):
Eating them. Yes. Feasting, 1 might say.

Matt (58:15):
And and so that is an actual way that the the, like,
consumptive pleasure of beingwith another person and the
consumptive pleasure of, like,consuming sustenance Yeah. Are

(58:35):
linked. They're linked. They'reinternally like, the internal
representation is overlapped.

Rachel (58:42):
Yeah. And I think for a lot of people, they're linked
too. They just don't actuallylike, for a vampire, that's
dangerous because your food isthe person you love. And yeah.
So Nick is like, I I literallycan't.
Like, we've converse. I can't.

Matt (58:57):
I guess the difference so the difference between humans
and vampires on this topic isfor humans, the those 2
pleasures are overlapped for,like, the internal
representation, but not as theexternal action. Right. But for

(59:19):
a vampire, they they carry overthe internal representational
overlap.

Rachel (59:26):
But now they are also

Nick (59:27):
But now they

Matt (59:27):
are Yeah. The external activity is the same thing.

Rachel (59:32):
Right. And after he's like, I I can't. My eros is too
strong. Natalie is like,

Matt (59:40):
My erotic love for you.

Rachel (59:42):
Natalie goes, I have been wrong about a lot of
things, but I don't think I'mwrong about this. I need a
resolution, Nick. I need an end.I need a clarifying climax. I
need a clarification.
I need to know a climax. Thankyou. Yes. No. He should've just

(01:00:04):
bought her some really goodtoys.
That's what he should've done.But he's like she goes, I need
an end. I need to know. I needto

Matt (01:00:11):
This is why we need more sense positive communication.

Rachel (01:00:14):
What is this? Between us.

Matt (01:00:15):
Because Nick could have been like, I'll buy you toys and
watch.

Rachel (01:00:21):
Oh. See, now that's not a nineties show.

Matt (01:00:24):
That's not a nineties show.

Rachel (01:00:26):
That did things. I need a minute.

Matt (01:00:31):
But that could work in the reboot. That it's like in The
Dresden Files.

Rachel (01:00:39):
Oh, god. The reboot's gonna be it's gonna have to be
on HBO. No. That's not a thinganymore. Used to be if you
wanted to have sex, had to be onHBO.

Matt (01:00:46):
So in, like, the Dresden Files, there's these 2
characters. Yeah. 1 of them is,like, an energy vampire, but
it's like life energy. Yeah.And, it's kind of like being a
succubus, incubus, whatever.
The way that you give somebody'slife energy is by performing

(01:01:09):
sexual activity with them, andyou suck the life out of them.
But there there's these 2characters. 1 of them is 1 of
these energy vampires, and thenthere's this girl lady, that, he
likes to feed off of.

Rachel (01:01:25):
He falls in love with

Matt (01:01:26):
And they end up falling in love with each other. Yeah. And
they've been together. They'vethey keep going on these benders
where because it's pleasurablefor the other person for the
person that's getting the energyremoved. It's it it feels good
both ways.

Rachel (01:01:44):
It's mutual.

Matt (01:01:45):
Yeah. So they're in love with each other. They wanna be
together. But

Rachel (01:01:50):
Love is toxic.

Matt (01:01:51):
They can't they can't be close to each other and not
indulge.

Rachel (01:01:56):
Well, and love is toxic. Yeah. Yeah. And so Like, it
burns

Matt (01:02:02):
him. Oh, yes. Yeah. Right. Because once once they're both
in love with each other, hecan't touch her because it would
hurt him.
Yeah. So she ends up getting afull body latex suit and saying,
okay. Now we're gonna have somefun. And now, like, she figured

(01:02:26):
out a way to protect herself Andthey can still

Nick (01:02:30):
be together.

Matt (01:02:31):
Being able to, like

Rachel (01:02:32):
Yeah.

Matt (01:02:32):
Have a physically intimate relationship without the danger.
Right. They just have to, like,prepare properly.

Rachel (01:02:41):
Right. Well, I don't think this is about preparation.
I think this is about Nick has,like, he personally has hurt
people he's loved or he's seenthe people he's loved be hurt
repeatedly over and over againfor 100 years. Sometimes by him,
sometimes by other people. Andhe's literally done.

(01:03:02):
Like, this isn't a moment wherehe wants a full body latex suit.
This is a moment where it waslike, I gave you the with
affection card. I already toldyou how this works.

Matt (01:03:10):
They they make those cut proof gloves

Rachel (01:03:13):
For the

Matt (01:03:13):
love of could get a leg bodysuit made out of that No.

Nick (01:03:16):
And he

Matt (01:03:17):
could not bite through it.

Rachel (01:03:18):
This isn't the what what he's saying is I can't and I
don't wanna.

Matt (01:03:25):
Right. He doesn't even wanna try.

Rachel (01:03:26):
No. I don't wanna. I don't wanna work this out.

Matt (01:03:30):
She just needs a chain mail, Nick.

Rachel (01:03:32):
I don't want you any closer. I don't want it is what
he's saying. That and those arethe thoughts that are going
through Natalie's mind is, like,what if I've just got a lot of
garlic? I'm at yeah. And heliterally says, I can't.
Goddamn it. Like, I, like,fucking can't, Natalie.

Matt (01:03:51):
Right. He's learned his lesson from indulging as many
times as he has.

Rachel (01:03:56):
He's like, stop. Please stop. I have already told you
where my boundaries are, and youcan't stop pushing it. And you
kinda understand where Natalieis coming from too, which is he
gives some pretty mixed signalssometimes. And so she's like, I
just need to know what what ishappening here.
I need to know where we stand.And I think he cares about her
enough that he doesn't wannaharm her by just outright

(01:04:19):
rejecting her or leaving her.Although, he did try. Although,
we we kinda talk about thatbecause we get that Buddha black
Buddha flash that flashback. Butthere's a lot happening in this
conversation.
There's a lot of, we've neverbeen clear with each other and
look where it has now gotten us,and we both wanna be together.

(01:04:42):
Like, Nick wants to be with herand feel like they have this
emotional intimacy withoutactually providing any emotional
intimacy for Natalie. And yeah.And then finally, Natalie is
like, look, there's a way thatwe can be together, and I have
faith in you and in whateverfollows. I think we can do this.

(01:05:08):
I think we can make this work. Ithink we've got something going
on. I think you love me morethan you know. And then we get
the flashback to Alyssa and thewedding night where he,
whoopsies, kinda kills his wifea little bit.

Matt (01:05:21):
Just a little bit.

Rachel (01:05:22):
And that's from dead of night. And then we come back and
Nick is like, you are asking toomuch of me. If I kill you,
you're dead. But I now have tocarry your death for eternity.
You are asking too much, which Ihave to imagine that is 1 of the

(01:05:46):
reasons why Lacroix cautions himagainst getting too close to
mortals because eventually, theyare going to ask you for
something you don't wannaprovide.
And here we are. And then we goback to the precinct in this
whole weird slow motion momentwhere Dawkins, who's the

(01:06:07):
transfer guy, breaks free tosome reverb, and everyone draws
a gun on him, even though he hasa hostage. And he threatens the
hostage, and he pulls her intothe back, and he kicks the
evidence guy out of the evidencelocker. And we end up in the
locker room, but he loses thehostage, and then he pulls all
the power and he breaks thebreakers and cuts power to the

(01:06:28):
station. So shit is going downat the precinct while Nick and
Natalie are having a superintense conversation in the
morgue.
And Nick is like, whether Ibring you across or not, this is
a death sentence, Natalie. I maylook alive. I may walk around. I

(01:06:49):
may appear human, but I am nothuman. And you actually cannot
conceive of what it's like to bea vampire until you are a
vampire, but you won't be youanymore.
Either I kill you when you dieor I turn you into a vampire and
you are now no longer Natalie.Those are the 2 options. And
Natalie's like, a life likeLaura's is a death sentence, and

(01:07:14):
I'm not afraid to try. Join acooking class, Natalie. Go do
some correspondence courses atthe local, like, community
college.

Matt (01:07:27):
Your portfolio. First Life experiences.

Rachel (01:07:31):
First go to is, well, I guess I need to get fucked by my
vampire boyfriend.

Matt (01:07:36):
Yeah. 1 piece of advice I've heard is have multiple
things that you're mildlycompetent in. So that way, if
you have a failure in 1, it'snot, I literally failed at
everything I do the 1 thing.Yeah. Because you spread it out.

(01:07:56):
You have multiple things thatyou can do, that you do do, that
you can maybe enjoy a littlebit. And then, like, if you lose
your job, it's not your life.Yeah. If you crash your car and

(01:08:18):
that's, like, your thing

Rachel (01:08:21):
Yeah. It's not It's

Matt (01:08:21):
not the

Rachel (01:08:22):
end of everything.

Matt (01:08:23):
Everything that you do.

Rachel (01:08:25):
It's

Matt (01:08:26):
And with Natalie, it feels like she has her job and Nick.
And that's literally her entirelife.

Rachel (01:08:35):
1 of the complaints about this episode, contemporary
criticism of this episode, wasthat it felt like a betrayal of
the characters, and the onlycharacter I really believe about
that is Natalie. I don't reallybelieve that Natalie in 1 night
gets this note from her friendand is like, well Right.

Matt (01:08:57):
Because they've had this this interaction, this
conversation a bunch of times.

Rachel (01:09:05):
I do think it picks off the scab. I do think this is
like a, Nick, I love you morethan you love me, and I need to
know where this is going. I gotI need

Matt (01:09:16):
to know. The believable part is it does provoke her to
confront Nick about it.

Rachel (01:09:22):
Yeah. Not having an honest good. Not having an
honest conversation about who weare and what our relationship is
with each other is activelyharming me.

Matt (01:09:30):
Right. But she's always been grounded in us to be able
to, like, step back and havesome perspective and say, oh,
yeah. I recognize that what I'masking Nick to do is dangerous
for both of us and would harmNick if, like, he hurt me.

Rachel (01:09:56):
I think from my perspective, I think Natalie's
been doing a lot of it's fine.I'm fine. How are you? I'm fine.
It's fine.

Matt (01:10:02):
Right. She's

Rachel (01:10:03):
Oh, you don't wanna change me right now? It's fine.
I'm fine.

Matt (01:10:05):
She's deluding herself.

Rachel (01:10:07):
Is she fine? No. Not fucking fine. Just I'm fine.
It's fine.
It's fine. Oh, okay. We can't betogether tonight? K. Cool.

Matt (01:10:15):
If you don't pay attention to the the hurt in your life, is
it really real? Yeah. If youjust keep deliberately paying
attention to the other thingsand letting that wound fester,
Is the wound even really there?

Rachel (01:10:28):
Yes. It is.

Matt (01:10:30):
It is. Yeah.

Rachel (01:10:31):
And you go see a psychiatrist, but definitely not
Laura.

Matt (01:10:34):
Or some type of therapist Yeah. Or counselor. Not every
psychiatrist is a therapist. Wedon't know

Rachel (01:10:40):
Or you journal that shit out. I don't know. I don't know
that I would ever benefit fromtalk therapy. I know that about
myself. I'd be sitting therelike, it's fine.
I'm fine. But you're here for areason. Yeah. But it's fine. We
can talk about you.
I don't really wanna talk aboutme. That feels selfish. Like, it
would be hard for me to do talktherapy, but I love a good
journal. Like, I'll journal shitout of shit and stuff. But

(01:11:01):
however you need to work it out,she's that's what she's doing
right now.
She's like, listen. We need wegot some dirty laundry. It's
about time. We got we gotta hangit out. And here we

Matt (01:11:10):
go. Gotta scoop the cat litter.

Rachel (01:11:12):
And I think that this is a wake up call, which is exactly
what she says, and this is whatshe's using it for.

Nick (01:11:17):
But I don't think where we

Rachel (01:11:17):
ultimately lead feels consistent with the character.
Right. I ultimately lead feelinglike that's where we were going
all along, which I totallybelieve, but some of the steps
feel a little bit forced. Doesthat make sense?

Matt (01:11:33):
Yeah. Yeah. I don't think this is what Natalie would
actually do as far as justditching everything. Like, I'm
literally I have my bags packed.I'm going to Knicks because I'm
never going home again.
Yeah. I'm never going back tothis job again.

Rachel (01:11:52):
That in a more permanent hell. In a more permanent hell,
as soon as she realized she wasgonna die, she started smoking,
and she went out and tried tobang another vampire and get him
to bring her across.

Matt (01:12:02):
Well, that's because the world was literally going to
end.

Rachel (01:12:05):
Yeah. It was imminent. Anyway, this is when Nick
actually gets the call. This iswhen he actually gets

Nick (01:12:12):
the call, and it's about the situation at the precinct.

Rachel (01:12:13):
And Natalie looks super disappointed, but she's like,
it's cool. It's fine. I'm fine.We could talk later. She's not
fine.
A woman who says it's fine, I'mfine is not actually fine.
Sometimes

Matt (01:12:27):
Can concur.

Rachel (01:12:28):
Sometimes, It's fine. I'm fine. It's the repetition.
The it's fine. I'm fine.
Sometimes,

Matt (01:12:39):
from my experience, the I'm fine, it's fine, is I'm
trying to get you to stop askingme about it because the thing
that I'm getting upset about isthat you keep asking me about
it. Yeah. That happenssometimes. But then I keep
getting asked, are you okay?

Rachel (01:12:59):
Fine is just a loaded it's a loaded I'm fine. Yeah.
You know, it's fine. I'm fine.It's a throwaway of it.
You know? And, and it it coversup a lot of I don't really wanna
communicate because if I say toomany words, I don't know what's
gonna come out of my mouth. Soit's fine. That's where I'm
gonna leave it right now. And soNatalie's like, it's fine.

(01:13:20):
And Nick actually leaves becausehe's working, and he flies off.
And he arrives

Matt (01:13:25):
And he's a break, so he takes a look.

Rachel (01:13:28):
I mean, he knows. He knows. But, also, he's still
kind of at work, and they'rehaving a nonproductive
conversation

Matt (01:13:35):
right now because he's like that she's temporarily
terminating the conversationYeah. By saying there's nothing
I'm there's nothing else for meto say to you right now, and I'm
kind of letting you go deal withwhat had just came up. Right.
And it's I will be okay in themeantime while you are busy

(01:13:57):
taking care of yourresponsibilities.

Rachel (01:13:58):
Feels like that moment in a conversation where you have
a natural break because you bothneed a minute to think about
what happens next, because hekeeps saying, I can't do that
for you. I'm not that for you. Idon't wanna be that for you. I
can't be that for you. And she'ssaying, it's cool.
I have faith. It's cool. I havefaith. It's cool. I have faith,
which is like, I'm trying totell you no.

(01:14:20):
I'm trying to be clear. Andyou're like, but, baby, come on.
Don't you think we could makethis work? Baby, come on. And so
he's, like, this isnonproductive.
I'm leaving. So he goes off. Hearrives at the precinct, and he
actually runs in, and Reesetells him it's Dawkins. You
know, they were holding him fora transfer. And Nick's like, oh,
yeah.
Dawkins? I know him. I arrestedhim. And Nick goes into the back

(01:14:43):
room, into the locker room, andhe ends up even though they're
waiting for a negotiator, hejust goes in there.

Matt (01:14:52):
He knows that he's got should have been in there. Nick
and Tracy should not have beenin there. No. They should have
been following procedure waitingfor a negotiator.

Rachel (01:15:02):
Yes. They're

Matt (01:15:03):
supposed to be kinda hotheads.

Rachel (01:15:04):
I mean, they're supposed to be waiting for a negotiator,
but Tracy has already snuck inthere. I'm not even sure she
heard the part about how theywere waiting for a negotiator.
And then Nick just runs inthere, and nobody fucking stops
him. But Dawkins recognizesNick. He's like, oh, officer
Knight.
And Nick goes, you don't wannadie. Do you, Dawkins? And

(01:15:27):
Dawkins puts the gun to hishead, and Nick ends up trying to
hypnotize him into pointing thegun at the floor. But then Tracy
appears behind Nick anddistracts Dawkins at just the
right moment, and he shoots atNick just as they get the lights
fixed. And then Nick rushes him,but he ends up shooting a couple

(01:15:47):
more times and Tracy takes thebullet.

Matt (01:15:52):
Yep.

Rachel (01:15:56):
And he turns around all vamped out, and Tracy sees that
he's a vampire. And then startsto fall down the wall, leaving a
trail of blood on the cinderblocks behind her. And there are
2 parts of what happens afterthis that just break me every
fucking time. And it's when hegrabs her and he's like, can we

(01:16:19):
get some help in here? And thenshe goes, you could have trusted
me.

Nick (01:16:26):
We need some help in here. Right. You could

Matt (01:16:33):
have trusted me.

Rachel (01:16:39):
You could have trusted me. And then Nick holds his hand
up and his hands are veryliterally covered in blood.
Because how would this haveturned out? Did that bullet that
hit her, was it the bullet thatpassed through him? Because

(01:17:02):
bullets just go straight throughhim.

Matt (01:17:04):
Right.

Rachel (01:17:05):
Did she stand behind him thinking he was a viable shield?
Like, he was providing partialcover? Because she's not wearing
a vest. He could have beenwearing a vest. Mhmm.
And yet him being there, her Imean, she's not totally not at

(01:17:28):
fault in this, but the actionsthat he takes directly lead to
her getting shot. And she wouldhave done none of that had she
known he was a vampire. Shewould have just let him handle
it.

Matt (01:17:40):
Right.

Rachel (01:17:40):
But because he didn't trust her, she dies. And he very
literally has blood on hishands. And I would like to
propose that everything thathappens in season 3 is because
he should have left in BlackBuddha, and he overstayed his

(01:18:04):
time. And these are all theultimate consequences of what
happens when an immortal staystoo long.

Matt (01:18:11):
The immortals around him got too comfortable with him?

Rachel (01:18:17):
They began to care about him too much, and he started to
care about them too much. Andthen they started asking him for
too much. Not that Tracy everdid. Poor Tracy never asked him
for anything. She just wanted tobe a good partner, and she
wanted him to be a good partner.
And she thought she had thissuper special secret that he
wouldn't understand, and itturns out, voila, he was 1 of
them all along. And those arethe last words she says to her

(01:18:45):
partner is you could havetrusted me. And I wanna point
out that Dawkins also wouldn'thave been there if Nick hadn't
arrested Dawkins, then it's theexact same scenario that he was
in with Skanky where he used hisvampire powers to arrest the

(01:19:06):
bomber.

Matt (01:19:07):
And then his partner accompanied the person that he'd
arrested while they were gettingtransferred

Rachel (01:19:14):
Yeah.

Matt (01:19:15):
And died because of it.

Rachel (01:19:17):
So this really feels like a y'all having a vampire be
a part of humanity ultimatelyleads to like, does it
ultimately lead to suffering? Isthe fact that he tries to be
involved in the mortal worldwhat causes these tragedies?
Well, I mean, the bombing thingwas sort of outside of his. Yes.

(01:19:40):
He would have gotten awayotherwise, but he didn't make
the bomb explode.

Nick (01:19:44):
Right.

Rachel (01:19:44):
And ultimately, he didn't shoot Tracy. But it feels
like more of a coincidence andmore than a coincidence that
both of his partners died.

Matt (01:19:56):
It's weird that it happened twice.

Rachel (01:19:57):
It's weird that it happened twice. I'm just gonna
leave that there.

Matt (01:20:03):
Okay. A counterpoint. There was a really good line in
1 of the Dune books about thecharacter acknowledging that
sometimes there arecoincidences.

Rachel (01:20:18):
Okay.

Matt (01:20:19):
And it's important to be able to acknowledge that and
discard the assumption thatsomething

Rachel (01:20:30):
Had to have led to this?

Matt (01:20:32):
That something was correlated or Yeah. Causally
related.

Rachel (01:20:36):
Sometimes random shit happens.

Matt (01:20:38):
Yes.

Rachel (01:20:38):
Yeah. Twice. But then we go immediately back into a
LaCroix monologue because thisfeels like the right moment for
it, and it is, and it always is.And the answer to that

Matt (01:20:49):
question is yes. 2 points is enough to generate a pattern.
Yeah. But sometimes it's a falsepattern, but sometimes it's a
real pattern.

Rachel (01:20:58):
But also the universe is weird. So Yeah. Haven't you
tired of this incessant guilt?Hasn't it swayed your back and
stooped your shoulders to thepoint of shrugging it off? You
insist on taking responsibilityfor the actions and emotions of
those around you when they arewhen they alone are responsible.

(01:21:18):
It is so foolish. It is sounnecessary. It is so mortal.
And then we see Tracy gettingtaken away by the paramedics.
And Reese is like, you sureyou're alright, Nick?
She made the call on this 1 todon't blame yourself, which is
actually thank you, Reese. Thatwas insightful and useful. She

(01:21:43):
made the call on this 1. Don'tblame yourself. And the
paramedic comes over, and she'slike, yeah.
Tracy took 2 bullets to theabdomen, and then there's a bad
head wound. But, like, where'dthe fucking head wound come
from, though?

Nick (01:21:57):
Oh, I

Matt (01:21:57):
thought it was 2 bullets. 1 to the abdomen, 1 to the head.

Rachel (01:22:01):
No. Okay. I

Matt (01:22:03):
don't know

Rachel (01:22:03):
where that is. There's 2 bullets in the abdomen, and then
there's a bad head wound. Didthey maybe the concussive force
threw her back against the wall?Okay. It's fine.
And then we go to the Nick go toNick, and he's at the hospital
with Tracy. And Reese goes,they've done Reese comes into
the operating room or the roomwhere Nick is sitting on Tracy's

(01:22:25):
bed and he's just sort

Matt (01:22:26):
of staring at you. Yeah.

Rachel (01:22:27):
I see you. And Reese goes, they've done everything
humanly possible. Now we wait.And then he tells Nick, sorry
dog, but Dawkins didn't make it.And you're gonna take some heat
on this 1.

Matt (01:22:42):
You threw him too hard.

Rachel (01:22:44):
Yeah. Trucked him into a wall, and the dude died. This
could get really rough. AndNick's like, I can handle it.
It's fine.
Planning to leave tomorrowanyway. It's fine. I can handle
it. And Rhys goes, I mean, shemight be okay talking about
Tracy, but I know what it's liketo lose a partner. Nothing rips
you apart like that.
You know that, Nick. You lostskanky, which is the first time

(01:23:08):
anybody has said his name inlike 20 episodes. Yeah. And then
we get a flashback to BlackBuddha, and it's just for Nick
goes skanky. That hurt.
I'm not gonna lie. It hurt tosee that again after so long,
and then we see it in thisepisode, and I had forgotten. I

(01:23:28):
don't think I've watched thisepisode, maybe all the way
through since I watched it thefirst time. And Reese goes,
there is life after this onceyou get through, Nick, so just
remember that. And Matt thoughtthis maybe was foreshadowing.

(01:23:49):
He was like, I think they liveat the end because reset it.
There's life after this once

Matt (01:23:53):
you get through it. What what I meant was Nick knows
there's an afterlife. Yeah. Andso I said this was foreshadowing
because

Rachel (01:24:06):
I liked this as an Easter egg of Reese telling the
audience that once we getthrough this, everyone lives at
the end. There's life after onceafter this once you get through
it. Like, Nick like, LaCroixholds the steak up, and he's
like, goddamn it, Nicholas. Andhe just tosses it to the side,
and he's like, this isn't howwe're ending tonight. And then

(01:24:27):
he just changes Natalie, andthey leave.
Right. That's how it goes in myhead. And then we go to the
black and white flashback. Everytime we do these flashbacks, we
kinda start in black and whiteand then we fade to color, which
is, oh, god damn it. This isamazing.
And why didn't we do this everysingle time? And it's black
Buddha again. And it's when Nickis blaming himself because he

(01:24:48):
caught the bomber. And then wecome back, and Nick is looking
at Tracy, and then he vamps outas if considering turning her.
And he starts to lean over herjust as Natalie comes in, and he
ends up, like, shaking his headside to side.

(01:25:09):
Like, he's getting closer toher, but he's also shaking his
head as if he's fightinghimself, like, fighting the urge
to save her. And then he ends upturning and kind of hisses at
Natalie because he's, like, invampire mode right now.

Matt (01:25:24):
Right.

Rachel (01:25:25):
And Natalie's like, the fuck? And Nick goes, if she
dies, it's my fault. And Nataliegoes, how do you know that's
what she wants? And why is it soeasy to consider bringing her
across and so impossible toconsider bringing me?

Matt (01:25:44):
Honestly In this scenario, Natalie's like, you were gonna
like, I want you to do thisthing with me, and you're gonna
fucking cheat on me for Tracy.

Rachel (01:25:55):
Do the thing with Natalie that if you think of it
as sex every single time.

Matt (01:25:59):
Right.

Rachel (01:25:59):
Sure. But

Matt (01:26:01):
It's a it's a transformative experience.

Rachel (01:26:04):
Honestly, this is my least favorite Natalie moment,
basically, ever. Because thiscould just be a character call.
Tracy would make a bettervampire than Natalie. I'll say
it. Tracy is pragmatic.
Tracy learns quickly. Tracy isreally young and flexible. Tracy
would make a good vampire.

Matt (01:26:22):
Compassionate.

Rachel (01:26:24):
Natalie, not so much. I am not sure how good of a
vampire Natalie would be. I'mnot sure Natalie would ever be
able to fully accept what shewas. I mean, she has encountered
demons, ghosts, and actual ghostthat followed her back to the

(01:26:44):
morgue, and she ended up havinga great resolution with her
weirdly Russian, like,grandmother, vampires. I mean, a
lot of weird shit.
And yet, every time anothersupernatural thing came up,
she's like, I don't know. I justdon't know.

Matt (01:27:02):
Whereas Tracy absorbs it and moves on.

Rachel (01:27:05):
Tracy just rolls with it. I honestly think this is a
character call on Nick's part. Ithink Nick I think after 800
years, you have an intuitivesense of who makes who would be
able to handle it.

Matt (01:27:15):
Having turned so many people into vampires and
observed their what they arelike as a vampire after
observing them as a human. Nickhas a better sense or he has
more experience with a to bcomparisons than Yeah. Like
anybody else.

Rachel (01:27:34):
I mean, I think he knows if he turns Tracy, Tracy it's
Tracy as a vampire. If he turnsNatalie, it's gonna kill her.
It's gonna fucking kill her.

Matt (01:27:41):
Mhmm.

Rachel (01:27:42):
And he's well aware of that. Look at what he has. Look
at the burden he has to bear.Right.

Matt (01:27:45):
It took him literally 100 of years to build himself up to
be able to resist the vampire.

Rachel (01:27:55):
Yeah. Yeah. And I think Tracy would be able to work with
that, and I don't think Natalieever would.

Matt (01:28:02):
Right. He might have to take Tracy off for, like, 10 or
15 years to help, like, buildher up. Yeah. Build up her

Rachel (01:28:09):
She's gonna get her shit together. Natalie is it would
kill her. It would literallyjust destroy her spirit to be
turned into a vampire. Andbecause of who she is, because
of the fact that she she refusesto believe that anything could
be metaphysical. She is going toget turned into a supernatural
being and then all of a sudden,she's just gonna accept that the

(01:28:30):
supernatural exists, it's notgonna happen.
She's too rigid to ever make agood vampire. And then, Nick
just walks off. He does notanswer her, because she's like,
are you are you fucking kiddingme? You're gonna turn her into a
vampire? You're not even gonnaconsider turning me into a
vampire?
Nick storms off, which means hedoesn't turn Tracy. So Natalie

(01:28:54):
being hella jelly in this momentkeeps Nick from saving Tracy.
And I'm not happy about it. I'mnot. I am not.
And I know why they did it. It'sbecause it's a series finale,
and we wanted to be done. Weended season 1, and they weren't

(01:29:16):
sure if they were gonna get tocome back, and it was in this
limbo. And everybody was, are westill under contract? Are we
not?
Are we done? Are we coming back?Oh, we're coming back. And then
we did season 2, and then theend of season 2, it was like, I
don't know. Are we coming back?
Are we not? And then season 3,it was like, y'all, we're gonna
burn it all down. We're gonnaburn it to the fucking ground.

(01:29:39):
And to do that, you

Matt (01:29:40):
had to get to know kind of symbolic to say that life is not
worth living. The life of theshow Yeah. Being in a state of,
oh, are things going to workout? Or should I just end it now

(01:30:02):
Yeah.

Rachel (01:30:03):
Myself? Or they end it. Right. They end it.

Matt (01:30:07):
Which is symbolic for the character arc.

Rachel (01:30:11):
That's why they do it, but also, I'm not happy about
this. I'm not happy. BecauseNatalie makes the choice for
Tracy. Right. Natalie choosesfor Tracy.
Yep. Natalie takes away Tracy,whatever agency Tracy may have
had. I think you can extrapolatefrom the fact that she was
willing to have a relationshipwith Vashon, that she was at
least willing to entertain theidea of being a vampire. So you

(01:30:33):
turn into a vampire, she doesn'tlove it, and she ends up like
Nick? Okay.
Well, at least she gets thatchance now. She doesn't. She
just dies. And Nick goes to theraven, and it's closed, and it's
empty. And Lacroix has his bustout, which Matt was like, didn't
that fall and break?
Has he been lugging that aroundthis whole time? I'm telling

(01:30:55):
you, there is a vampire storageguy, and he stores your shit.
And that is probably the he'sprobably the most lucrative
dude. You just call him andyou're like, listen. I don't I
gotta bust.
I don't I don't really wannadrag it around. He's like, no.
Say no more, fam. And he's justgot a giant warehouse where he
sticks everything. Yep.
As if there's not, there shouldbe. That's all I'm saying. And

(01:31:16):
there's like a glass, like aglass of wine or glass of blood,
obviously, next to the bus.Like, is it drinking? I don't
know.
Whatever. And Nick goes to theback and LaCroix is getting
ready to leave.

Matt (01:31:28):
That's where they insert the Gollum arc.

Rachel (01:31:31):
I mean, y'all, LaCroix just lost somebody too. LaCroix
just had

Matt (01:31:34):
to construct as supernatural creature art.

Rachel (01:31:36):
I I got you. Okay. Yeah. I heard you and then just rolled
right along. Y'all, LaCroix justlost somebody too.
He had to kill his own daughterin the Raven. He doesn't wanna
stick around. He's done. He isdone. He recognizes that it is
time to move on.
He knows that all of the painthat's happening all around them
is because it is past time forthem to move. And so he's just

(01:32:00):
gonna do it. He's gonna leave.And he tells Nick, it's time for
both of us to leave. We've comefull circle in this life.
We are back to where we started,and shit's gonna start going
down. We gotta get out of here.And Nick is like, LaCroix, I'm
in trouble. And LaCroix knowswhat he's talking about. He

(01:32:24):
goes, yeah.
I know. I know. Like, I get it.Your partner, is she and Nick
goes, no. No.
But her chances aren't good,especially since I left and
didn't turn her into a vampir.Motherfucker. And then Lacroix
is like, Nick, can't you seethat you've overstayed your
welcome? They no longer find thepain that you caused them to be
acceptable, and those that dosurvive will not let your

(01:32:49):
relationship remain as it was.They will demand change, and you
will be compromised because theycan't change.
Not to the extent not with thesame rapidity as a human being
can change, as a mortal canchange. They're you're asking
the glacier to move faster, andit can't. And so now you're
gonna know it's a glacier andnot a person. Mhmm. And Nick's

(01:33:13):
like, no.
There's too many loose ends. AndLacroix is like, you've lost
looser. You've like, we fledParis 1 time. Remember when you
killed Franchesca, my daughter,that I really liked and had the
nice house? So I'm pretty surewe can just go.
And Nick's like, no. No. I needto be here for Tracy. Natalie
needs me. And like, shh.

(01:33:33):
That's all bullshit. Nicholas,your time has come, and I will
be at the loft tonight for yourdecision. And then I am leaving
with or without you. Like, I'mgonna go. I can't stick around.

(01:33:57):
But Nick is, like, pacing backand forth, and LaCroix is just
standing there leaning on hisluggage like, Nick, you need to
get some perspective. This is alife. It's a play thing. It's a
thing we create and we have funwith, and then we throw it away
and then we leave. And I get it.

(01:34:19):
You're attached to these people.Dude, I get it. It's fine. But,
like, we gotta go. Or thesepeople that you have come to
love, you're gonna hurt.
But Nick isn't really hearinghim. He's not here to hear him.
He was here for comfort, and hecame and found Lacroix being
like, alright. I'm gonna dip, soyou better dip with me. I dip,

(01:34:41):
you dip, we dip.
Let's go. Like, come on. Let'sdo this. And it just you know,
This isn't the good moment forNick. It's a great moment for
Nick, but he doesn't think it'sa good moment.

Matt (01:34:53):
No. No. He doesn't.

Rachel (01:34:55):
We've all been there. He knows he knows deep down exactly
what he needs to do, but it'snot what he wants to do. And so
he is lying to himself. AndLacroix is not letting him lie
to himself, so he leaves becausethis is he didn't this isn't
what he came here for.

Matt (01:35:13):
Right.

Rachel (01:35:13):
And so then we get another LaCroix monologue. And
it's the 1 for all the thingsthat we are, there's a price to
be paid. Love may be tasted, butnever savored. Guilt is a poison
and staying past our time isdeath.

Matt (01:35:30):
Haven't you tired of this incessant guilt? Hasn't it
swayed your back and stoopedyour shoulders to the point of
throwing it off? You insist ontaking responsibility for the
actions and emotions of thosearound you when they alone are
truly responsible. It is sofoolish. It is so unnecessary.

(01:35:56):
It's so mortal.

Rachel (01:35:59):
Yeah. And that is, the entire theme of season 3,
basically. Just all rolled upinto 1 neat little package.

Matt (01:36:08):
Does that explain vampire dog, though?

Rachel (01:36:11):
Nothing explains vampire dog. And he says, but if we
truly care for a mortal, if welove 1, then we must go.

Matt (01:36:21):
If we truly care for a mortal, truly loved 1, then we
must go. Isn't that somethingthat you taught me?

Rachel (01:36:36):
Isn't that what you taught me?

Matt (01:36:39):
Well, it depends on what kind of love.

Rachel (01:36:41):
Which is an interesting admission that Nicholas has been
changing La Croix just assteadily and surely as La Croix
has been at least trying tochange Nicholas?

Matt (01:36:52):
Right. The La Croix at least been, like, slowing down
his descent towards humanity.

Rachel (01:36:58):
In you, like, towards yeah. Yes. Yeah. Nick's descent
towards humanity. I thoughtyou're talking about LaClaza.
I was like, no. It's not. It'saway from humanity, maybe. I
think Nick acts like a tether.

Matt (01:37:10):
Yeah. I think they're anchors for each other.

Rachel (01:37:12):
Yeah. And I think the push and pull, 1 pushes the
other and 1 pulls the other, andin the end, they find balance.

Matt (01:37:19):
Yeah.

Rachel (01:37:20):
It keeps Nick balanced on that precipice of, I'm a
vampire wanting to be a mortal,but I'm not quite ready to take
that final step. And then Nickkeeps LaCroix on that. I am a
vampire who's ready to do awaywith all morality and feeling
and just become completelymonstrous like my daughter. But,

(01:37:44):
you pull me back and you keep meanchored. Yeah.
It's okay to be as weak as thosewe prey upon is where they keep
each other. And then we get ourbe my Valentine flashback,
because this episode was notpainful enough. I had not been
stabbed directly in the chest bythe plot knife enough.

Matt (01:38:06):
They had not twisted it enough.

Rachel (01:38:08):
We had to throw in the fucking Fleur flashback. The 1
where it's like LaCroix whotrying to say, yeah, I'm gonna
turn Fleur into a vampire so wecan be together forever because
I love her desperately. And theonly way that we get to be
together is if we're the same.So I'm I'm a do this. I'm gonna
turn her and Nick being like,no, you're not.

(01:38:30):
Because if you do, she won't bethe woman you love anymore.
You're gonna be killing thewoman you love.

Matt (01:38:37):
Which is the argument that Nick and Lacroix are having now
reversed.

Rachel (01:38:42):
Yeah. Yeah. And I wonder if this is another temperament
thing. He's thinking Fleur istoo delicate. Fleur is too
delicate's a terrible word, andI hate that I said it out loud.
Fleur is too, sensitive. Fleurwouldn't handle it well. We
don't know that. Nick doesn'tknow that. Nick hasn't seen her
in, like, years years yearsyears years.

Matt (01:39:03):
Well, it hasn't been that many years.

Rachel (01:39:05):
It's been a while.

Matt (01:39:06):
We get the idea that she was, like, fully grown, which
means, like, 11 in medievaltimes. So so it's been, like,
minimum 9 years. Maximum I don'tknow how old she's supposed to
be here. Like, 20 years?

Rachel (01:39:28):
Yeah. She's gotta be early twenties.

Matt (01:39:30):
Yeah.

Rachel (01:39:30):
Late teens, early twenties. Otherwise, she'd
already be married or dead,which means very shortly after
this, she gets married and thenshe gets dead. Yes. Yeah. I
mean, I still don't love it.
I still think this is I but Ihave said my piece on the
Lacroix Flour conundrum. If youdon't know what I'm talking

(01:39:52):
about, feel free. Go back.Listen to the Be My Valentine
episode and pretty much everyepisode thereafter, which I
watch.

Matt (01:39:58):
Anytime the floor comes

Nick (01:39:59):
up.

Rachel (01:40:00):
Anytime the floor comes up. It's just because, I think,
the way vampires are portrayedin this show is like, if you
aren't Nick and you aren'tconstantly, like, abrading
yourself with, being too closeto mortals and sort of flying

(01:40:21):
too close to the sun andconstantly They hang out at a
club

Matt (01:40:34):
all the time. Bottling process that introduces the
possibility of not killingpeople Yeah. Like, as an
industry standard.

Rachel (01:40:50):
I think that's probably the 1 weakness of this show is
it didn't sell me on thedrawbacks. Yeah. It didn't sell
me on the oh, no. That would beterrible. Like, oh, no.
I don't have to get up and goout in the sun every day. Oh,
no. What will I do?

Matt (01:41:07):
What would I do if I just had to stay in my house all day
long?

Rachel (01:41:11):
Oh, wait. I do that.

Matt (01:41:12):
I never leave. Oh, wait.

Nick (01:41:13):
You could do that already.

Rachel (01:41:17):
I would never have to cook. I wouldn't ever have to
clean up the kitchen. I wouldlive like I'm sorry. We're
hashtag where's the bad part?Right?
I mean, I get it. They're it'skilling people. Right? It's
killing it's the urge to killpeople. It's the fact that

Matt (01:41:34):
It's the hunger.

Rachel (01:41:34):
It's the hunger. Right? But The hunger is the trauma.
Because we don't have a maincharacter who is actively
involved in conquering that.Because Nick is like, well, I've
figured that out.
I drink cow's blood. And, like,that's the 1 thing I have been
reading some of the books,that's the 1 thing I do like is
being in his head.

Matt (01:41:53):
Mhmm.
And I

Rachel (01:41:53):
think it's intimations of mortality, especially, is
really good at portraying hisstruggle. Like when he goes to
the Raven and he's talking toLacroix, Lacroix has a blood,
like a a blood. He has a cup of,human blood. And Nick is, like,
listening to LaCroix, but alsothinking, like, 1 sip. 1 sip's

(01:42:15):
fine.
Is 1 sip too many? No. It'd befine. I could have a whole cup.
No.
It'd be okay. Like, I'd bealright if I just had. It'd be
fine. What's 1 cup? Humans eatcandy.
It's okay.

Matt (01:42:26):
That sounds like a day tripper, and I'll just have 1
drink.

Rachel (01:42:30):
Yeah. 1 drink. It's fine. I'll have 1. And okay.
Great. Like, okay. Good. Now Iget the drawback. The constant
intrusive thoughts of, like,it's okay.
Just kill her. It's fine. Justdo it. That's why I like, Chuck
Wendig's double dead because weget his vampire voice inside his
head.

Nick (01:42:47):
Mhmm.

Rachel (01:42:47):
So he's trying to have a relationship with these people.
He's trying to not be a completeasshole. But in his head, his
beast or his vampire is like,rip their arms off. Beat them
with it. It's okay.
Why don't we just kill all thesepeople and then we'll be free?
We can do what we want. Thesepeople suck. They're not nice to
you. Let's just go ahead andkill them.
I like that. You need that.Because we know intellectually,

(01:43:09):
because Nick has tried toexplain it to Natalie and by
extension tried to explain it tous, that there's a lot going on
that we aren't aware of. There'sa struggle that we aren't
seeing. But because of thelimitations of a visual medium,
we don't

Matt (01:43:24):
see it. And the constraints of broadcast media
in the nineties?

Rachel (01:43:30):
Yeah. Yeah. We're not seeing it.

Matt (01:43:32):
If we could have had at least a few scenes as flashbacks
or even, like, imaginings in themoment of what it would be what
it was like for Nick to just gofull vampire Yeah. Inhuman
vampire that looked like thenew, interview with a vampire.

(01:43:59):
Yes. Just just to set the tone,just to give us an anchor point,
a reference for what theexperience would be like

Rachel (01:44:10):
Yeah.

Matt (01:44:11):
To just full out vampire violence, blood fountain
Incinerator in the backyard.

Rachel (01:44:18):
Whatever. Yeah.

Matt (01:44:19):
Yeah. And I think that would have been a useful tool
for, like, storytelling wise toconvey what is actually going on
in Nick's head

Rachel (01:44:30):
Right.

Matt (01:44:32):
And what he actually did in the past so that he knows
what he's capable of.

Rachel (01:44:37):
Right. Yeah. If we get a little bit more I mean, this is
a note for the reboot. This is anote for the reboot.

Matt (01:44:42):
Yeah.

Rachel (01:44:43):
We get a couple moments. There's that 1 where I remember
LaCroix has been like wining anddining that lady and Nick goes
into savor and he oopsies, killsher instead. Oops. Because she
smelled too much like bacon orsomething. I don't know.
Like, he just couldn't handleit. And then we get the, like,
oh, shit. I didn't mean to dothat. Okay. But we need it to,
like we gotta go hard.
We gotta go, like, there's acouple scenes of the Being Human

(01:45:09):
UK where Mitchell has gone alittle too hard and he, like,
wakes up completely covered inblood.

Matt (01:45:15):
Yeah.

Rachel (01:45:16):
That's what we need. Like, we need a their urges are
incredibly powerful andincredibly violent and violent.
And what he violet. That was themost psycho southern harassment.
I gotta dial it down.
Alright. Incredibly violent.Violet. Violent. I'm owing the

(01:45:38):
o, the violent violent violent.

Matt (01:45:42):
Viola. Thank

Rachel (01:45:44):
you. I know, but I'm doing the violent. The, like,
adding an extra so the

Matt (01:45:47):
The VAYY.

Rachel (01:45:48):
The diabetes. Yeah. Alright. Incredibly violent. You
get what I'm saying?
Like, we gotta know. We gottaknow what he's fighting, and we
can show that now. We couldn'tshow that in the nineties.

Nick (01:46:00):
Yeah.

Rachel (01:46:01):
We did our best. They did their best. They really did.
And that's why I think you'relike, it falls flat when he's
like, no, Natalie. It would killyou.
And you're like, but how though?How how hard would it really be?
So you have to kinda in yourmind, you have to fill in that
canon, and then it makes a lotmore sense.

Nick (01:46:18):
Right.

Matt (01:46:18):
And I think storytelling wise, the writers are trying
they're working from thatstarting point

Nick (01:46:24):
Yeah.

Matt (01:46:24):
Of we have an idea of how bloody and violent Nick's
history is and what it's likeinside of his head. But every
time they try to convey thatthrough the writing, they're
they're, you know, held back bythe red tape of

Rachel (01:46:44):
Yeah. You can't show blood on television.

Matt (01:46:46):
Ratings.

Rachel (01:46:47):
You have 1 you can 1 have 1 decorous red blood drip
come out the side of somebody'smouth, and that is about as good
as it gets. Yep. And yeah. Sowhen we do it again, that's what
will will strengthen the thedrawback. And then then I won't
be sitting here going, but,like, why though?

(01:47:09):
And we wrap up this whole be myValentine flashback, and we come
back to Lacroix saying, leavingis the purest form of love. It's
the get away from me. I'm notsafe.

Matt (01:47:23):
Right. So the on the on the types of love, another 1 is
agape, and the, like, shallowexplanation is unconditional
love. Yeah. The more nuancedversion is something like the
relationship that you have withsomeone where you are

(01:47:46):
facilitating them growing as aperson into a better person or
just growing in the best way youcan imagine possible. And that
type of that perspective on onNick loving Natalie is he wants

(01:48:08):
if he if he loves her that way,he wants to facilitate her
growing into the best version ofNatalie and recognizing that him
being around is holding herback.
Yeah. So if he wants tofacilitate her actually growing
as a person, he needs to get thefuck

Rachel (01:48:31):
out. Yeah.

Matt (01:48:35):
Yeah. Because her attachment to him change. Right.

Rachel (01:48:40):
He will always be an anchor in time that cannot
change, and it will only evermake her feel more and more
aggressive.

Matt (01:48:49):
I think he can change. It's just

Rachel (01:48:51):
They don't change it in the way a mortal would.

Matt (01:48:53):
He has a lot more inertia. Yeah. So it takes longer to
change the direction of thatship. Right. She she's a little
surfboard on the waves.
It's like an ocean liner.

Rachel (01:49:05):
It's kinda like having a friend in high school and
they're your best friend, andthen you go off and you get
married and you have kids andyou go to college and you do all
kinds of stuff, and you comeback and they're still the exact
same friend that you had in highschool.

Matt (01:49:18):
I've I've had that experience a couple times.

Rachel (01:49:20):
And then it's like, okay. Well, either I have to be
the person I was in high schoolso that we can stay together,
and I don't get to grow andchange in the way I normally
would, or I have to let you go.But the opposite, the high
school friend has to be like,I'm holding you back.

Matt (01:49:37):
Right.

Rachel (01:49:38):
I'm gonna have to let you go. Because mortals have a
very short time on this earth,and ultimately, them dying will
bring the vampire guy pain, butalso, like, you're taking up a
lot of their time. He's taken up6 years of her time, which

(01:50:00):
means, canonically, she's 35 nowbecause she's oh, no. She's 28.
She's 28.
It's her 28th birthday.

Matt (01:50:07):
When they meet. So she's 34.

Rachel (01:50:09):
Oh, which means her birthday is April 14th.

Matt (01:50:12):
Yeah. Happy birthday, Natalie.

Rachel (01:50:14):
Almost happy birthday, Natalie. And she's 28, and so
that means she's 34. That's athose are some crucial years,
for Natalie that she has spentinvesting a lot of her time and
emotional energy in Nick. And hehe can never echo that back, not
in the same way that a mortalcan.

Matt (01:50:35):
Right.

Rachel (01:50:36):
And so she's still reading this notebook, and she
reads a whole passage, but theend of it is really the most
poignant part. And it's, I'm notcoming. I'm going. I'm gone. And
the letter also says, like,everyone else's pain is my
problem, but mine is only myproblem.

(01:50:58):
And, of course, that's apsychiatrist thing, but I also

Matt (01:51:00):
think a lot of women feel

Nick (01:51:02):
that way.

Matt (01:51:02):
Problem when you're a counselor or therapist

Rachel (01:51:05):
Yeah.

Matt (01:51:06):
Is monitoring or, like, that you getting trauma done all

Rachel (01:51:22):
the time.

Matt (01:51:22):
You have to set up some kind of environment where you
have somebody monitoring you asa therapist because it is, like,
established. It's known thatyou're vulnerable Yeah. To to
exactly Laura's situation. Youknow, you are getting exposed to

(01:51:47):
some really nasty parts of thehuman psyche, and you are a
human person, so you aresusceptible to the same things
as Yeah. The people you'rehelping.
And just like they can't getthemselves out of the situation
that they're in mentally,psychologically, So they need

(01:52:11):
someone external to to pushthem. You also need someone
external to push you sometimesYeah. When you get into certain
mental states.

Rachel (01:52:21):
Right. Just because you're a psychiatrist doesn't
mean you're healed. Right. Yeah.And Nick is driving.
Like, we cut from Natalie toNick, and Nick is driving around
in his Cadillac because he justleft Lacroix, which was a very
unsatisfactory meeting. Andthere's a report coming over the
radio, and he turns off the copradio. And pretty much that's

(01:52:44):
him being done because we nevergo back to the precinct. We
never turn it back on. We nevercheck back in with any cases.
We never do any more policework. That's it. He turns the
cop radio off and click click.That's it. Finished.
Done being a vampire detective.And he ends up turning on the
regular radio, but, of course,there's no nightcrawler. It's
just a lady and somebody callsin and he's like, where the
hell's the nightcrawler? And shegoes, he just said it was time

(01:53:08):
to move on, man. And that's it.
So the nightcrawler

Matt (01:53:12):
is So now we've we have confirmation that

Rachel (01:53:15):
All the status quo

Matt (01:53:16):
is on the way out.

Rachel (01:53:17):
Is no longer a status nor quo. Like, it's done. All
the things that we've relied onfor the last 70 some episodes
are finished. And then we getthe black Buddha flashback to
when Nick was gonna just dip andleave Natalie behind, and she
shows up at the loft to yell athim. And, honestly, he should
have just left.
Like, he should have just left.

Nick (01:53:37):
Mhmm.

Rachel (01:53:38):
Natalie could have moved on. Tracy never would have had
him as a partner. He could havejust gone and been done, but we
wouldn't have gotten season 3.So okay. And we also get a
little bit of the clip fromhuman factor where it's
Jeanette, and he's tellingJeanette, you know what?
Ghosting me was, like, wrong. Idid not like it. That was the

(01:54:00):
wrong decision. And Jeanette'slike, I left you. I left because
of you and because of yourquest, because a vampire's heart
must be cold.
It has to be. That's how wesurvive immortality. But a 1000
years is a long time to livewith a cold heart. So he's

(01:54:22):
wrestling with, like, why did Istay? And if I stayed for
Natalie, doesn't that mean thatI should choose Natalie?
I should choose passion. Ishould choose to not have the
cold heart anymore. And whilehe's wrestling with this, he
shows up at his loft, andNatalie is waiting for him. And

(01:54:43):
she stands up and tells him thatTracy Vetter passed away 20
minutes ago.

Natalie (01:54:52):
Tracy Vetter passed away 20 minutes ago.

Matt (01:54:59):
Yep.

Rachel (01:55:01):
And then we cut to a clip of seeing her get covered
up with a sheet and wheeled outof the hospital. And I'm not
gonna revisit it, but that'sNatalie's fault. Like, it's not
Natalie's fault. It's not. It'snot.
It's It

Matt (01:55:15):
is positively related to Natalie's actions.

Rachel (01:55:17):
I'm just mad at the way that that whole that I'm mad
because they squinted atNatalie's character in that
moment.

Nick (01:55:26):
Mhmm.

Rachel (01:55:27):
Because she was completely willing to have Nick
turn turn her brother. But thenwhen it came to Tracy, she was
like, but what about me?

Matt (01:55:37):
Right. Which

Rachel (01:55:38):
And that doesn't feel like Natalie. No. And that's the
only reason I'm mad at that thatwhole scene because we squinted
at Natalie's character. And,honestly, you owed us a little
better than that. But okay.
And then Nick is like, Laquottethinks I'm a fool for feeling
guilty and for trying to atone.This must be what's on his his

(01:56:00):
heart, his mind right now,because he just comes right out
with it. He's like, Lacostethinks I'm being an idiot. He
thinks he has thought for 800years that this guilt, like,
holding on to guilt and tryingto atone is me being me being
foolish. And I'm starting tothink he might be right because
all it has ever caused me ispain and death.

(01:56:25):
In the 6 years that I've knownyou, Tracy has died, Cohen has
died, Skanky has died. Like, abunch of love interests of mine
have died over the entireseries.

Matt (01:56:37):
And then even Natalie's brother Yeah. And he died. That
wasn't Nick's fault. But thenNatalie's probably a little
traumatized by the whole seeingher brother transformed into
this violent creature Yeah.That's pain that is caused to

(01:56:59):
Natalie because

Rachel (01:57:01):
of Nick. There's been a lot of hurt to Natalie. Right.
He's also helped Natalie. He'salso saved her, but he's hurt
her a lot more than he savedher.

Nick (01:57:08):
Yeah.

Rachel (01:57:09):
He has with affectioned her a lot more than he has I
loved you. And she comes backwith, I mean, you've more than
made up for all of the thedeaths that you've caused over
the centuries. And, I mean,you've saved some lives. Yeah.
You saved like if he is saved

Matt (01:57:28):
That's a very tongue

Rachel (01:57:29):
in cheek statement. Generously a 100 lives in the
time that he has been a policeofficer in Toronto. If you do
the math, Natalie, that is notanywhere near the 1, 000 upon 1,
000 upon 1, 000 of people thathe has murdered in his life

Matt (01:57:49):
I I propose this. Nick saved the whole planet in the
meteor episode.

Rachel (01:57:58):
No. That's what you said during the watch along too.
You're like, you saved the wholeplanet. That counts. That all
counts.
He didn't save the planet. Theyweren't gonna die.

Matt (01:58:08):
He was crucial to the cessation of riots. Okay. I
would give him credit. Worldwiderioting.

Rachel (01:58:19):
I would give him credit if he had gone full on
Armageddon and been, like, I cansurvive the trip into space. I'm
a vampire.

Matt (01:58:27):
Except in space, there's nowhere to hide from the sun.

Rachel (01:58:39):
I don't wanna laugh right now. That's why you're
doing this. I know what you'redoing. But honestly, that was a
this just illustrates how littleNatalie understands. If he had
killed 2 people a year in 800years, that's 16 a 100 no.
If he killed 2 people a month,that's what I was gonna say. If

(01:59:01):
he killed 2 people a month, 30people. Say he killed 30 people
a year over 800 years. That's24, 000 people.

Nick (01:59:08):
Yeah.

Rachel (01:59:10):
I'm pretty sure even if he'd saved the entire planet
from worldwide rioting, thatdoesn't make up for the wanton
slaughter of a small town.That's a not even a town. That's
a city. He's killed That's asmall city. You could populate a
city with the people that he haskilled.

Matt (01:59:28):
Which is the graveyard that we see when he's in the
afterlife.

Rachel (01:59:34):
Yeah. And he's gone to the afterlife, and the people in
the afterlife are like, yeah.No, man. You're fucked. That
ain't Uh-huh.

Matt (01:59:39):
Right.

Rachel (01:59:40):
Yeah.

Matt (01:59:40):
So not only does he have intimations that he's screwed,
like, existentially. Yeah. Hehas firsthand experience that he
is screwed, but eternally.

Rachel (01:59:57):
Right. Right. Because he went to the afterlife, and he
was like, cool. I'm ready now.And they were like, what?
No. You had your shot, man, andyou fucking blew it. And he's
like, what? No. And then theyshowed you your own soul, and it
was covered in maggots.
Remember the squelching sound? Iremember the squelching sound.

Matt (02:00:15):
So on on that topic, maggots are historically a
medical treatment to remove thedead flesh and, like, prevent
slash recover from infection.

Rachel (02:00:34):
Okay.

Matt (02:00:38):
I think in the US, maggots are actually an FDA approved
medical treatment, for, like,infections for, like, rotting,
like, gangrene and stuff. But itjust doesn't get applied because
people everybody's like It'sgross. Maggots. Yeah. Right?

(02:01:00):
What if the maggots on hiscorpse that he sees

Nick (02:01:06):
Yeah.

Matt (02:01:06):
In this vision, The maggots represent his redemption
arc. Oh, like they're cleaningall the dead, rotting tissue
from his soul Okay. To leavebehind the squeaky clean.

Rachel (02:01:25):
That's not what the show was going for, but I like that
better. So let's just go withthat.

Matt (02:01:31):
And, sure, there's still a lot of, like, rotting tissue on
there. Yeah. But it's on atrajectory.

Rachel (02:01:40):
Right. Well, that's

Nick (02:01:42):
yeah. But,

Matt (02:01:42):
like, where's the intersection of atonement
equalization?

Rachel (02:01:47):
Right. I like that better because that would that
would involve him having someagency in his afterlife instead
of just, the Lacoste spiritguide going, nah, man. Nah. You
fucked. And him going,

Nick (02:01:59):
la la la la la la la la la la. Right. I think

Rachel (02:02:01):
I can be with Natalie in the afterlife.

Matt (02:02:03):
You always need the possibility. Yeah. Otherwise,
there's no point. Right. Andeven if it's the what's the dumb
and dumber?
So you're saying there's achance. So, narratively, just
as, I guess, as humans

Rachel (02:02:21):
Right.

Matt (02:02:22):
Like like, for the human perspective on what you can be
as the in the future, you need achance. You always get another
try Yeah. You know, to a certainpoint. But I think, like, on the
eternal time scale, there alwaysneeds to be the option the the

(02:02:46):
an opportunity Yeah. Forredemption.
And and so I I try to take thatperspective when I'm Yeah.
Looking at a narrative.

Rachel (02:02:58):
There's a place for positivity in this without it
being toxic positivity. It's notlike I'm gonna be fine because I
believe I'm gonna be fine. It'slike I've been working really
hard, and I have to believethere's a payoff or what's the
fucking point.

Matt (02:03:13):
Right. And the experience is not a positive experience for
Nick Yeah. To go through all thestruggle and pain of resisting
his darker urges

Rachel (02:03:23):
Right.

Matt (02:03:26):
To say that, oh, yeah, Nick. All that suffering and
pain you've been puttingyourself through for, I guess,
like, a 100 years is when it washis last, like, cutoff point. Yo
yo. Been yo yoing. Like, yoyoing.
Voluntarily morality. Like,participating in this suffering

(02:03:48):
and pain, and it's working.Yeah. Now he's motivated to
continue doing that. Right.
But if someone says, oh, yeah.You're on the right track.
You're doing a good job.

Rachel (02:04:05):
You left the station, but you're not at your
destination.

Matt (02:04:08):
That might invalidate him a little bit if he got too much
encouragement. Oh, yeah. And soyeah. Like, symbolically, that
was my interpretation from thethe afterlife experience I like
it. It's good.
The maggots were a

Rachel (02:04:22):
I like it.

Matt (02:04:23):
Representative of his redemption

Rachel (02:04:25):
art. Because on the surface, it's like, oh, gross.
I'm being eaten by maggots, butit's like, oh, no. Maybe they're
only eating the parts of me thatare bad.

Matt (02:04:32):
Right. And I may be overall diminished, like Yeah.
In quantity. I don't know. Like,soul value.
Be. Whatever. Soul mass. ButI'll be clean at the end.

Rachel (02:04:44):
Yeah. Yeah. That makes a lot of sense. I like it. I like
it.
And it gives you hope for theend of this episode, kind of,
because he tells Natalie, I'mleaving. And she goes, not
without me.

Matt (02:05:00):
And we already know Natalie is leaving too. Natalie
has packed her bags. She'sgoing.

Rachel (02:05:06):
Yeah. Because when we see that that scene of her in
the morgue where she's readingthe notebook and she puts it in
the evidence box, everything'spacked up. Like, she's quit.
She's ready to be done. And Nicktells her, no.
I'm leaving because of you. Youdon't want my love. You don't
want this. You don't understandwhat you're asking, and it will

(02:05:28):
only destroy you. And Natalie'slike, cool.
Cool. I hear you. But can we dothe whole Janet and Bob thing?
Like, I think we could make thiswork. She loved him so much, it
cured her, and I think you loveme that much.
And I love Natalie a lot. Buthonest to God, he has done

(02:05:50):
nothing to justify this belief.No. No. And I think that this is
her gaslighting herself.
Like, she's calling her ownbluff. Like, either this works
and that means he loves me, orit doesn't work and that means
he never loved me. But eitherway, I get what I want because I

(02:06:13):
either get out or I get Nick.

Matt (02:06:18):
Right. And she wants she just wants an end to the She
wants a resolution. Theuncertainty.

Rachel (02:06:23):
And what's a greater resolution than this? And Nick
is like, it's a lot morecomplicated than that, which is
hashtag he's not that into you.This scene is this part is
tough. It gets continuouslytougher, because then Natalie is
like, I'm willing to take mychances. I made up my mind.

(02:06:45):
This is how we're gonna do this.Either it's suicide by vampire
or you get better, and I cureyou with my love blood, and we
get to be together forever.

Matt (02:06:57):
Right. There's 3 options. She dies. She cures Nick and
helps him turn into a vamp helpshim turn back into a human Yeah.
Like Janet, or she herself getsturned into a vampire, which not
the greatest outcome, but shestill gets to be with Nick, and
she actually gets to learn fromfirsthand experience the

(02:07:20):
struggle that he's been goingthrough to, like, stay with her.

Rachel (02:07:25):
Yeah. Yes. We know Janet is Jeanette. We're just being
funny.

Matt (02:07:28):
Yeah. So human Jeanette

Rachel (02:07:29):
is Janet. Janet. So Natalie says I'm willing to take
my chances, and Nick is like,I'm not I'm not willing to do
this. This feels vaguelynonconsensual. Like, not
nonconsensual in that how do Iwanna phrase this?
It's like she keeps asking himuntil the part of him that has

(02:07:50):
wanted to do this the whole timejust completely overrides his
self control.

Matt (02:07:55):
Right.

Rachel (02:07:55):
Because he's like, no. I don't wanna do this.

Matt (02:07:57):
And I think in that think

Rachel (02:07:59):
we should. And he's like, no. I don't think I
should.

Matt (02:08:01):
I think we could say or because of how she's persuading
Nick Yeah. To do it, that kindof implies that she does have a
better understanding of Nick'sinternal experience than we've

(02:08:22):
been arguing.

Rachel (02:08:23):
Well, she may have a better understanding than even
she knows.

Matt (02:08:26):
Yeah.

Rachel (02:08:26):
Yeah. Because then she says, you know, it's my choice
too, Nick. And, yes, it is herchoice to be with him. It is her
choice to become a vampire,possibly. It is her choice to
commit suicide or completesuicide via vampire.

(02:08:47):
But Nick, ultimately, is the 1who gets to say no in this. She
would yeah. He is not obligatedto provide her with services
because she has been helping himout? This feels a little creepy.
This is when you have to squintas a viewer, and you have to

(02:09:08):
kinda ice skate over the top ofall of these themes.
Because if you look too deeplyat anything that's about to
happen, it all gets a little itgets a little murky. And I don't
I don't honestly mind themurkiness. What I mind is that
none of this makes sense fromNatalie's character up until

(02:09:29):
this point. We know she isvaguely religious. She is
agnostic at best because she hasmentioned god or nature or
whatever.

Matt (02:09:38):
Spiritual, but not theistic.

Rachel (02:09:41):
But we haven't had any real good evidence that she
every time she comes up to,like, a supernatural or a
spiritual barrier, she's like,nope. Science. Except right now.
And it's I get it, in thecontext of she is acting
irrationally. This was the finalstraw.
This was the final fucking strawin a house of straws that she

(02:10:05):
has been building around herselfregarding Nick.

Matt (02:10:08):
Mhmm.

Rachel (02:10:09):
And, finally, Nick is like, look. You got me to stay 1
year longer, and look whathappened. Tracy died. And, yes,
again, nobody killed Tracyexcept the guy who shot her. But
I have to imagine Natalie feelsat least slightly culpable in
all of the things that havehappened this season as well.

Matt (02:10:27):
Right. You can you can be involved in something and and
legitimately ask the question,what could I have done
differently to prevent theoutcome? Yeah. And And he has to
know that being a partner tosomebody that does not know he

(02:10:53):
is a vampire. And then, well,every time they get into a
violent situation, a riskysituation, like, as a team, he
just runs in and, you know, runsstraight towards the danger.
And his partner is like, shit.My absolutely human partner is

(02:11:16):
just running straight into theface of danger. I need to back
them up. He should realize atthis point that that way of
behaving with a human partner isdangerous to the human partner
because they're gonna try toback him up. And when he doesn't

(02:11:36):
need it Yeah.
Because they don't know anybetter. Except skanky didn't,
but skanky. Skanky Skanky kindadid.

Rachel (02:11:44):
To be fair to Nick, we started out this whole series.
He didn't have a partner. Heintentionally didn't have a
partner.

Matt (02:11:51):
That's true.

Rachel (02:11:51):
He only ends up partnered with Skanky because
he's he's not solving thesemurders quickly enough.

Matt (02:11:58):
And it's getting so much bad press that the police
station, the, Stonetree is likeYeah. For the sake of getting
this actually solved in a timelymanner, I'm pairing you up with
a daytime cop Yeah. So thatsomeone is always working on the
case.

Rachel (02:12:17):
Right. And they intended intended originally to have
Skanky as a daytime cop and himas a nighttime cop and them just
be switching off, but it got toocomplicated trying to film both
things.

Matt (02:12:27):
And we got the buddy cop situation.

Rachel (02:12:28):
The buddy cop, and Skanky was a great partner for
him because he was like, Skanky,go around. And Skanky was like,
heard, sir. And he would just goaround.

Matt (02:12:36):
Right. And Skanky trusted.

Rachel (02:12:38):
Right.

Matt (02:12:39):
Trusted that when Nick said, I'm going into danger, but
I can handle it, Skanky is like,okay. I'm here

Rachel (02:12:48):
to back you up.

Matt (02:12:49):
I trust you.

Rachel (02:12:50):
Yeah. Because Skanky wasn't hungry for it like Tracy
is.

Matt (02:12:53):
Right.

Rachel (02:12:53):
And then he sort of falls into having Tracy as a
partner because Tracy issupposed to be his partner for
the week that Skanky is gone.

Matt (02:13:02):
Right.

Rachel (02:13:02):
And then Skanky dies in the plane crash, and, well, I
guess Tracy is your new partner.And what's he supposed to say? I
don't want the commissioner'sdaughter as my partner?

Matt (02:13:12):
Right. And so then he starts to act more like a mentor
to her.

Rachel (02:13:16):
Right. And so I think he's like, well, I'm gonna make
the best of a bad situation. Butin the end, he still he still
has a lot of collateral damagejust because of what he is, and
she ends up being collateraldamage. Yep. And Nick is a
simple beast, and Natalie knowsit.
And that's when she's takingadvantage of him in this moment.
She comes in. She tells himTracy is dead. And that

(02:13:38):
immediately puts him in, like, aheadspace where he's extremely
susceptible. And she's like,this is my choice too.
Did LaCroix ever talk to youabout faith? Faith is a buzzword
for him, and she knows it.

Matt (02:13:54):
Mhmm.

Rachel (02:13:55):
And she's like, how about love in afterlife?
Anything. And Nick fires backwith faith is a mortal folly,
which is him attempting todistance himself in this moment.
He's like, I keep telling you noand you're not getting it. And
so I need to not act human foryou right now.
I need to drop the mask a littlebit. And he's like, sorry, but

(02:14:16):
faith is a mortal thing. I can'tthink of faith in the same way.
I'm not human. And Natalie'slike, okay.
Yeah. Well, you sounded likeLaCroix right then.

Matt (02:14:25):
Right. And I think in this situation, Nick is trying to
Nick is leaning on his, like,Lacroix rhetoric, but he doesn't
have Lacroix's state of mind.

Rachel (02:14:43):
Well, as soon as Natalie is like, well, you sound like
Lacroix, he ditches it.

Matt (02:14:47):
Right. And I think here, Natalie is a lot more verbally
fluent Yeah. In in an argument,like a debate situation.

Rachel (02:14:59):
Well, she knows he doesn't wanna be Lacoste that he
spent a long time not Right.

Matt (02:15:02):
Apparently not being Lacoste. Knows exactly what
buttons to push.

Rachel (02:15:05):
Yeah. It's like when you tell me, okay, Becky.

Matt (02:15:07):
Natalie was on the debate team.

Rachel (02:15:09):
It's like when you tell me, okay, Becky, and I'm like,
oh, god. Okay. Because thatmeans I'm being my mother. And,
you know, she goes, are you surethat's how you feel? Because she
knows that losing himself inLacroix's whole thing is 1 of
his fears.
And I don't wanna make it soundlike Natalie is being the
villain right now because she'snot. I don't think in her own
mind that this is what'shappening. I don't think she's

(02:15:31):
seeing herself as manipulatingher. I think she has a thing she
wants, and she has never pushedNick before. But, apparently, he
needs to be pushed.
And so

Matt (02:15:41):
And and part of their relationship is her recognizing
that Nick needs to be pushed,which in their history has been
Nick needs to be pushed intodoing things that line up with
his ultimate goal of becominghuman.

Rachel (02:16:01):
In her mind, this is the same. Yes.

Matt (02:16:04):
And so she's recognizing, okay, here's a thing that Nick
can do to make himself human.It's the most plausible.

Rachel (02:16:14):
It's the only proven method we have seen.

Nick (02:16:15):
Right.

Rachel (02:16:16):
It's work. We've seen it work. This could work. I'm
running out of time. I havespent 6 years trying to save
him.
And he's about to leave, andthat'll be it. I'm done. I can't
do anything more. I will nothave another opportunity to try
to save him and to be with him.Right.
And so my only options right noware to try to save him with

Matt (02:16:35):
Right. And so the entire history of their relationship
has been Natalie from a moreobjective perspective,
recognizing this is the thingthat Nick needs to do. He's not
doing it by himself.

Rachel (02:16:48):
Yeah. I need to make him do it.

Matt (02:16:49):
So I need to push him to do it. And so that's what she
does.

Rachel (02:16:53):
Yeah. I mean, that that's what she does, and that's
what she's doing. But, I mean,that's why you have to skate
over the top of this a littlebit because she's pushing him to
have sex with her. And,ultimately, he chooses to do it.
It's not like this isn't aassault situation or anything,
but it is a a place where she ispushing him past where he feels

(02:17:14):
comfortable.
And ultimately, they both sufferfor it. And we cut to the
flashback of for I have sinned,and this is the Joan of Arc
flashback where he's offering tomake her into a vampire.

Matt (02:17:27):
Mhmm.

Rachel (02:17:29):
And she talks to him about faith. And he's like, how
come you're not afraid of death?And she's like, faith, Nicholas.
Pure, simple faith. And this iswhen Matt was like, what if a
person became a religioussymbol?

Matt (02:17:42):
Oh, yeah.

Rachel (02:17:42):
He totally broke the kitchen at the moment. He was
like, like, shut right now. Andhe's like, the flashback's gonna
have a druid in it. A

Matt (02:17:52):
a druid forest.

Rachel (02:17:53):
I mean, the reboot. The reboot's gonna have a druid. The
whole forest is the wholeforest.

Matt (02:17:58):
But It's just simple. If Joan of Arc okay. So Joan of Arc
was a religious symbol Yeah. Atthe time. She was a symbol of
religious heresy by 1 group, butthen she was this, like,
rallying figure amongst theopposite group Yeah.

(02:18:20):
Where she herself was, like, theavatar of, like, God Yeah. On in
France. Yeah. And and what whatif he tried to bite her and got
burned?

Rachel (02:18:36):
Oh, goddamn it.

Matt (02:18:38):
Because, like, so many people are imbuing her with
religious belief.

Rachel (02:18:43):
Yeah. I don't know. It's something to think about.

Matt (02:18:46):
Yeah. But

Rachel (02:18:49):
but Natalie, after we come back from the flashback,
she says, I won't accept thatthe sum of our existence can
only be measured by the fewshort years we spend here. It
would make

Matt (02:19:00):
How unscientific of her.

Rachel (02:19:03):
Yes. It would make everything that we believe
meaningless. Would it? Itdepends on what you believe, I
guess. It depends on whether youfeel like you are living for the
afterlife or whether you areliving life to live the life
that you're living.
And she goes on with, it wouldmake our lives meaningless. I

(02:19:25):
know that's not true, and so doyou. Faith is not a mortal
folly. And if it is, then youare the most mortal man I have
ever known. She is hitting allof the high points.

Nick (02:19:38):
Mhmm.

Rachel (02:19:38):
She's like, Nick, your faith is great. Your faith is
what makes you you. I love yourfaith. I kinda have faith
sometimes too depending on thewriter for the episode. I just I
get what she's saying.
She's like, I this can't be it.This can't be it. I can't have
discovered this wonderful thingexists. And then I go back to my

(02:20:01):
life and I just die and it's allover and that's it.

Nick (02:20:04):
Mhmm.

Rachel (02:20:05):
I get it. And he gives her this look like, oh, Natalie,
you're so young. And she's she'slike, okay. I'm almost there.
Like, almost got it.
And Nick tells her, you know,you can't deny what I am. You
can't deny that this is gonnalike, I am trying to tell you

(02:20:25):
something, and you are notlistening. And Natalie goes, you
can't deny what's in your heart.I wish. I kinda wish.
I love Garrett when Davies is anactor. I really do. But I wish
he and Catherine Disher had justa touch more chemistry.

Matt (02:20:46):
Mhmm.

Rachel (02:20:49):
They're fine. They're fine. And I believe them as best
friends, and I believe them asbest friends who you wish would
start dating and see if it couldbecome more. But you never feel
like they are just a hair'sbreadth away from fucking each
other.

Matt (02:21:04):
Right.

Rachel (02:21:04):
Like you get with Nick and Jeanette. Think about the
fuck me energy from season 1between Nick. This has become a
retrospective. Do you know that?Because we have talked about
almost every single season atleast once this entire time.
Just think about the fuck meenergy between Nick and Jeanette
in the first season where everytime they looked at each other,
you were like, they wanna do itright now. You never get that

(02:21:28):
with Natalie. No. And you justdon't. And so when you get to
the scene where he she's like, Iknow you love me.
I know what's in your heart.You're like, it feels like she's
pushing him, but I think it'ssupposed to feel like she's
pushing him.

Matt (02:21:43):
Mhmm.

Rachel (02:21:44):
I think it's supposed to feel like they are both walking
into a mistake because neither 1Natalie's being honest and he's
being honest, but they aren'tlistening to each other.

Matt (02:21:55):
Right. They're both talking at each other.

Rachel (02:21:57):
Yeah. And Natalie tells him, I have faith that there's a
future for us here or somewhereelse, and I believe in you. I
trust you here or somewhere elsebeing, like, on this earth or
the next. Make love to me, Nick.Just take a little at a time
like Janet and Bob did.

(02:22:21):
And this hurts my heart so muchbecause Natalie always believed
that Nick loved her more than heactually did. And to his credit,
he has given her nothing butwith affection. But she wanted
it to be more, and so she madeit more. And this is where it

(02:22:47):
led us because Nick respondswith, I'm afraid of what might
happen. And Natalie says, I'mnot afraid of death or an
eternity in darkness as long asI can spend it with you.
All I have is faith and love,and all I'm asking is for you to
make love to me. I trust you.This is where Nick needs to

(02:23:13):
remember baby, baby. When thelady said, I wanna be immortal
and he was like, cool. I gotyou, fam.
And he needs to be like,clarification required. By
eternity and darkness, do youmean death or do you mean
becoming a vampire?

Matt (02:23:30):
Right.

Rachel (02:23:31):
I need to know that upfront. Before we do this, I
need to know.

Matt (02:23:36):
Yeah. We need to both make sure we we're using the same
definitions.

Rachel (02:23:42):
Yeah. Because she could very well have meant, I'm not
afraid. If you make a mistakeand I die, okay. But if I become
a vampire with you, great. Or ifyou're, like, if, you're cured,
even better.
But, like, those are the 2options I would like you to go
with. But instead, he's like,got it. You wanna die or die or
I get better. Cool. Let's dothis.

Matt (02:24:02):
Right. So from Natalie's perspective, there's 1 failure,
which is she dies, and thenthere's 2 win scenarios

Rachel (02:24:13):
Yeah.

Matt (02:24:14):
Where win scenario a, Nick, becomes human, is better
than win scenario b. But winscenario b is better than Lou's
scenario c.

Rachel (02:24:25):
Yeah.

Matt (02:24:26):
And for Nick, there's win scenario a where he becomes
human. There's Lou's scenario bwhere Natalie becomes a vampire.
Yes. And there's Lou's scenarioc where Natalie dies.

Rachel (02:24:41):
Yes.

Matt (02:24:41):
And it actually, if we're putting them in order, Lou's
scenario b is Natalie dies,which is better than lose
scenario c where Natalie becomesa vampire.

Rachel (02:24:54):
Yeah. Yeah. And this is where I kinda wish that this
show had been made in, like, theTrue Blood era, where we're
like, oh, we can show tits on TVbecause we couldn't she asks him
to make love to her, and he'slike, k. And then he just bites
her. I know.
Okay. So there's a commercialfor forever night that Kristen

(02:25:15):
just put up on her night vision1228 channel. And there's a
crack about, can you imagine 800years of never making love from
the neck down? So I get it. Sothe female vampires in this
respect, I've always felt wouldhave an advantage because

(02:25:35):
they're not required to noanatomy needs, adjustment in
order to have traditionalintercourse.
So

Matt (02:25:44):
a whole as

Rachel (02:25:44):
a whole as a whole. You would maybe just need lube. I
don't know. I just said that,and there we are. I'm gonna
leave it in.
But like a guy vampire, if theflow of blood isn't there, well,
then other things aren'thappening. Right? Right. And but
there are other ways for him tohelp Natalie have as much fun in

(02:26:07):
this situation as he's about tohave. And win win, they still
involve eating.
But instead, he's like, cool.And he just turns into a van he
just does the vampire face.Like, I could take you to the
set and fuck sheets, but Lacroixis gonna be here in 30 minutes.

(02:26:29):
So we gotta snap snap. Get thisdone.
Right.

Matt (02:26:31):
No foreplay.

Rachel (02:26:32):
He does like to watch. If he shows up, are you cool
with me continuing? Okay. So no.No foreplay.
Just he goes, okay. And, like,this is where it gets serious,
though. The lighting in thescene is phenomenal because
they're only lit by the fire,and we keep that really intense.

(02:26:56):
There's a word for it. It's notcontrapposto.
That's the, my art history leftme, but there's a whole period
of art which is known for itsintense light and in, like, deep
shadow. And that's what thisfeels like because we get really
well soft, like soft, warm, butbold lighting on our actors, and

(02:27:18):
then everything else is prettymuch in darkness.

Matt (02:27:20):
Yeah.

Rachel (02:27:21):
And it makes us really, really focus on them right now.
And he tells her, I won't leaveyou. Whatever happens, we'll be
together forever. And this iswhere she needs to be, like,
clarification. Did youunderstand what I was saying
that I either wanna become avampire or I wanna or you become
human.
I don't want you to just let melay there.

Matt (02:27:42):
Here's the written contract terms signed at the
back.

Rachel (02:27:45):
About to get into a kink scene. Let's sit down and
negotiate. Okay? Like

Matt (02:27:52):
Literally a a life and death situation.

Rachel (02:27:54):
Done. That's how you do it. Okay. We're about to play
out this scene. We need to makesure everybody knows all the
rules so that everybody has agood time.
Because does she think she'sabout to be made into a vampire?
Did she say eternity of darknessand he didn't clarify? Did she
think when she says darkness,does she mean vampire, and when
he hears darkness, he hearsdeath? We should've talked that

(02:28:17):
out, but we didn't becausenobody's acting rationally right
now. This isn't a rationalmoment.
This isn't a sit down anddiscuss it. It's a we're totally
in our feels, and this is theultimate this is where we've
been heading all along. And Idon't care that we squinted at
Natalie's character earlier. Ilove that this show brought us
here. Yeah.
That this show promised that ifhe got too close, he would hurt

(02:28:41):
her. And as soon as he gets tooclose, he hurts her.

Matt (02:28:45):
Yeah.

Rachel (02:28:46):
So they promised and they delivered. And she gets
nothing. She gets no making out.She gets he kisses her wrist,
and then he's like, wow. Thatfelt like foreplay, and then he
just goes straight for the neck.
And he bites her, And then weget these moments where she is
flashing to all of hisflashbacks. She's seeing visions

(02:29:08):
of him throughout the years. Andremember in Franchesca, when
he's talking to her about theblood, he says, can you imagine
the temptation to learn alltheir secrets to let them know
yours?

Nick (02:29:21):
Mhmm.

Rachel (02:29:22):
Implying that when you bite somebody, that psychic
connection could go both ways.So not only are you experiencing
their life, they areexperiencing yours, which means
in this final moment, Natalie,at last, understands what Nick
is talking about. Because he'stold her stories about his past

(02:29:44):
before, but not everything.Certainly not the most painful
things.

Matt (02:29:49):
Mhmm.

Rachel (02:29:50):
And she dies finally knowing just how bad of a person
Nick was and how hard he fought,and what he's gone through. And
she finally understands whatpushing him meant. And Nick lays
her down, like, he lays her downon the ground, and he sits up

(02:30:12):
like, oh, shit. Just as Lacroixwalks in because he was like,
oh,

Matt (02:30:17):
Nicky. Lacroix was there the whole time. He was just
hiding.

Rachel (02:30:19):
Because he had xed out watch. And then Lacroix goes,
great. Now all that remains isfor us to turn off the lights,
lock the door, and we're on ourway. Unless you were planning on
bringing her into the family,like, I don't hate her. We could
have her around for a while.
And then Nick just sits thereand he goes, oh, Nicholas. You

(02:30:41):
have thought this through,haven't you?

Nick (02:30:45):
Well, all that remains now is to turn out the lights and
lock the door on our way out.Unless, of course, you have
decided to add her to to ourentourage. Oh, Nicholas. You
have thought this through,haven't you?

Rachel (02:31:08):
I love that line so fucking much. I love LaCroix in
this moment. This is LaCroix athis most, I love you, Nicholas.
I love you like a brother. Ilove you like a son.
I love you in all the ways thatsomeone can love you.

Matt (02:31:26):
Right. And this is Lacroix working to facilitate Nick's
growth as a person regardless ofthe discomfort that Nick has to
go through or, whatever. Justthis is

Nick (02:31:49):
This is

Matt (02:31:49):
this is LaCroix sincerely working to help Nick grow as a
person Yes. Into Lacroix's bestversion of Nick.

Rachel (02:32:00):
Well, who knows LaCroix? Who knows Nick like LaCroix
knows Nick?

Matt (02:32:04):
Right.

Rachel (02:32:04):
Nobody knows Nick like LaCroix knows Nick. Right.
Nobody knows LaCroix like Nickknows LaCroix. They have been
caught in this spiral of painand friendship and pain and
friendship for 800 years. Theyhave pushed every single 1 of
each other's buttons.
They have been pushed back. Theyhave embraced each other. They

(02:32:27):
have pushed apart again. Theyhave tested each other, and then
they have traveled together as,like, best friends, more than
best friends, for 800 years.

Matt (02:32:39):
Right. They've even hated each other, and then while
hating each other, saved theother 1

Rachel (02:32:44):
Yeah.

Matt (02:32:45):
From certain death.

Rachel (02:32:47):
Yes. For 800 years. So as soon as Nick sees that or
soon as Lacroix sees that, hisfirst thought is, oh, shit. I
know what this is going to do toNick. I know how long he is
going to carry this, and Ireally hope he did this because
he wanted to.

(02:33:08):
Because if he didn't, theconsequences are are possibly
more than he can bear, andLacroix has to have been waiting
for a long time for Nick tofinally come to a point where he
can no longer bear it. He hasbeen living for centuries with
the knowledge that Nick is onlyever 1 traumatic event away from

(02:33:32):
the possibility of him losinghim. Mhmm. They should be
comfortable in immortality witheach other. Like, they're both
immortal creatures.
He should not be worrying aboutit, but kind of contrary to what
his nature would allow him to beable to do, he has to worry
about losing Nick in the sameway you would worry about losing

(02:33:53):
a mortal.

Matt (02:33:54):
Right.

Rachel (02:33:54):
And we have seen it throughout some of the episodes
where he will push Nick to acertain point, and then he'll
back off because it's like, Ican't push you any farther. It
might be too far. Right. He doesthat in Be My Valentine. I don't
believe for a minute that hebelieves that Nick doesn't that
Nick wants to turn Natalie orthat Nick is using Natalie.
I don't believe that, but heknows this isn't his moment. If

(02:34:15):
he pushes Nick too far, he couldlose Nick.

Matt (02:34:18):
Right.

Rachel (02:34:20):
And he has to have walked into this situation and
gone, oh, no. I have to navigatethis carefully for us to get out
of this, which is why he looksterrified through half of this
scene. Because as soon as hesays, oh, Nicholas, you have
thought this through, haven'tyou? Nick goes, I couldn't stop

(02:34:40):
myself. I've taken too much.
And LaCroix He took

Matt (02:34:46):
less than his first wife.

Rachel (02:34:48):
Well, because LaCroix is like, oh, no. No. Like, we could
still do this.

Matt (02:34:52):
Right. Like, you left enough in there. We can turn
her.

Rachel (02:34:55):
I think what he means is I took too much to not make a
decision. Like, I have to eitherturn her into a vampire or let
her die. I didn't take too much.I didn't take just enough so
that she could go back to worktomorrow. I took too much.
Yeah. And Lacroix is like, okay.Well, we can bring her across,
or we could let her die, but youneed to decide. Like, this is up
to you. I'm here for you.
I'm I'll support you in whateverdecision you make, but, like,

(02:35:18):
you have to make a decision. AndNick goes, Lacroix, is it
possible for a vampire to havefaith? And Lacroix has to be
like, oh, no. Oh, shit. Oh mygod.
Okay. He goes, that's a reallyweird question to ask at this
moment. That's a that's a reallyweird question, Nick. And Nick
goes, have you ever had faith?And Lacroix, I mean, he could

(02:35:42):
lie.
He could lie, but it's not inhim.

Matt (02:35:45):
Right.

Rachel (02:35:46):
It's not. He goes, I've seen too much. No. I don't have
any faith. Sorry.
I've been around. I I almostoverlap with Jesus, so not
really. Like, I remember whenthis was just a little thing,
and now it's way blown out ofproportion. Like, I don't know
what to tell you. Okay.
I absolutely maybe he might havefaith in a higher power in a

(02:36:06):
something else, but to have,like, the Christian version of
faith, highly unlikely. And Nickgoes, maybe I haven't seen
enough. And Lacroix is like,okay, Nick. But, you know time
heals all. Right?
So we can just be done with her.We can be done with this life.
We can kind of this was a goodlesson. We learned a lot of

(02:36:29):
lessons, and then, we can moveon and maybe you can stop
denying what you are, and thenwe don't end up back here again.
Okay?
And Nick goes, I can't condemnher to this. I I can't make her
like me. I can't do that. Ohgod, Nick. Like, you could

(02:36:53):
though.
You could. Her whole thing wasshe wanted to cure vampirism.

Matt (02:36:58):
Right.

Rachel (02:36:58):
So what if you're like, okay. I made you into a vampire.
If you want, I'll give you,like, a 100 years. If you
haven't cured vampires in a 100years, we can just walk out into
the sun together. Is that cool?
Like, we cool? Cool? But no. Hejust kisses her, and then he
turns around and looks at Nigel,at Lacroix. And Nigel,

(02:37:20):
motherfucking Bennett, iscrushing it.
He looks so scared. I wasactively crying during this
scene when we watched it lasttime. Yeah. And Lacroix is like,
oh, we have time for a burial.If you like, like, I will throw
you a bone here.
I will show you that I'munderstanding. I get it. This
hurts. My god. I am here foryou.

(02:37:42):
Like, what do you need? Whatsupport do you need from me in
this moment? You wanna bury her?We could bury her.

Matt (02:37:47):
Right. He's throwing Nick every bone, every opportunity
to, okay, Nick. Let's do whatyou feel like you need to do so
that we can tie up your looseends and move on to the next
thing.

Rachel (02:38:04):
Yep. And Nick gets up and he grabs his stick, his,
like, steak stick, and he goes,she had faith in me and in
what's beyond, and that we couldhave a life together, and that
this would be a beginning andnot an end. Yeah. But did she
mean did she mean you turninginto a vampire?

Nick (02:38:25):
Like, I think we should clarify that.

Rachel (02:38:28):
But that's fine. It's fine. It's fine. I'm sorry.
That, like, bubbled up and outof me right now.
I just I mean, this is the partwhere we have to skate a little,
because he did murder her, andnow he's like, but I'm gonna
join her in the afterlife. Andthis feels a little family
annihilator.

Matt (02:38:46):
Yeah.

Rachel (02:38:47):
Like the phenomenon of family annihilators where you
generally have a usually a man,usually the male in the
relationship who will murder hisentire family for their own
good. Yeah. And just like, gosh.You're so close to that. And he
says that this would be abeginning.
It wouldn't be an end. Whateveris after this, we're gonna be

(02:39:10):
together. This is this is mefinally making a decision. I
need a resolution. I need thisto end, and I'm choosing how it
ends.
And did she know that she waswillingly inviting him to commit
suicide? Maybe not consciously.Because he says whatever

(02:39:33):
happens, we'll be together, andshe's like, cool. She has to
know that there's a possibilitythat that means that he kills
himself to follow her. She'sokay with it.

Matt (02:39:46):
Yeah. And for her, it may have been just, oh, like, he
needs an out in the worst casescenario to, like, convince
himself to do this.

Rachel (02:40:01):
Yeah. And we're not gonna solve this.

Matt (02:40:02):
To convince himself to attempt this. Yeah. And so she
may have been like, but that'snot gonna happen. So sure.

Rachel (02:40:08):
Yeah.

Matt (02:40:08):
Okay. I'll give you permission for your out in the
worst case scenario, but you'llyou'll do fine.

Rachel (02:40:16):
Since I'm very clearly asking you to turn me into a
vampire, that's not gonnahappen. So it's fine. Right.
We're not gonna solve this. I'mjust posing the question.
That's something for you tothink about on your own. I'm
gonna put a pin in it because Idon't like to think about it
because it sort of makes Nataliemore of the villain in this, and

(02:40:36):
I think that everybody in thisis a victim. And everybody in
this is a victim of what happenswhen

Nick (02:40:45):
a

Rachel (02:40:45):
being that is inherently chaotic, like a vampire stays
too long and creates too muchchaos. And I just wanna leave it
at that. But it's an interestingquestion. It's something I feel
like it needs to be asked. SoI'm gonna ask it, but I'm not
gonna answer it.
And then this is when Nick islike, I have that faith too. I

(02:41:07):
believe we'll also be together.And LaCroix goes, oh my God,
Nicholas, don't be foolish. Andthis is when he launches into
his peach monologue, like, don'ttrade your treasure for an empty
box. I have seen you love life.
I have seen you look up at thestars. I have seen you love
everything that life has tooffer for you. Don't fucking
give that up when you don't knowwhere you're going. Don't you

(02:41:32):
fucking do this to me. And Nickis listening and tearing up.
He's like holding his stake andhe's looking in the fire and his
face is framed by the fire. AndLacroix, you can only pretty
much see his face because he'swearing all dark clothing. So
he's in this, like the lightingin the scene is just phenomenal.
And then he actually tears up.Lacroix actually tears up.

(02:41:56):
And because he goes, oh my god.Everybody is earning their
fucking check. That's all I'msaying. Everyone is earning
their check right now because hesays, and so I suppose in your
story, I'm the devil. Like, oh,look, LaCroix is the bad guy
again.

Matt (02:42:21):
And so in your eyes, I'm the devil.

Nick (02:42:37):
No. Not the devil, LaCroix. What then? You are my
closest friend.

Rachel (02:42:52):
And he's actually tearing up because this is the
thing that he has been afraid offor centuries, and it's finally
here. And he doesn't know how tostop it. And Nick stands up and
turns and faces him and says,no, you are not the devil
Lacroix. And Lacroix goes, whatthen? And Nick responds with,

(02:43:17):
you are my closest friend.
And Nigel looks like he's aboutto burst into tears and fucking
Christ. This is a this is thisis 1 of the best acted scenes in
television full stop. Thismoment right here where Nick
turns to him, and he's like, no,man. No, bro. You're my you're

(02:43:38):
my my closest friend.
You are my brother. You are myfather. You are everything to
me. And I would never askanybody else to do this for me,
because he hands him the steak,and then he turns around and
kneels over Natalie and takesher hand, and Lacroix raises the

(02:43:59):
steak, and then we cut to theexterior and the sunrise, and
damn you, Nicholas. And that'sthe end of the entire show of
forever night, and you made it.
You watched every singleepisode, And now you know why
people are like, oh, isn't thatthe vampire show with the
terrible season series finale?Like, everybody knows it ends,

(02:44:24):
quote, badly. I don't think itends badly. I don't hate this
ending. I don't hate thisending.
I don't hate this ending at all.I love how murky and dark and
weird and grim dark, and, like,I love that moment and the push
and pull between LaCroix andNicolas.

Matt (02:44:38):
Oh, yeah. Is it The character dynamics are great.

Rachel (02:44:43):
This show has always been about the characters. It
has always been about thecharacters.

Matt (02:44:48):
It's all about the vibes, not the actual

Rachel (02:44:51):
The plot.

Matt (02:44:51):
Content. The

Rachel (02:44:52):
plot is generally ridiculous and silly, and
sometimes it doesn't even makesense. But it's the characters
that pull you through the show.The characters are what make the
show. And the fact that we wemade the season finale, the
series finale character driven.

Nick (02:45:11):
Mhmm.

Rachel (02:45:11):
Was a stroke of genius.

Matt (02:45:13):
Yeah.

Rachel (02:45:14):
They aren't solving some crime. They aren't finally
catching some huge serial killerand everybody it it's not even

Matt (02:45:21):
about this story even though it's the cop. It's about
the vampire.

Rachel (02:45:24):
It's about Nick and the vampire and what that means, and
I fucking love it. I justfucking love it. And I know this
is a hard ending. I know it is,but I would have been
disappointed if this show hadended happily. I think it would
have undermined what what theywere saying the whole time.

(02:45:44):
Nick doesn't have an out. Hemade a choice a long time ago,
and he has to live with theconsequences of this, his
decisions. And he can try to bea better vampire, but he can
never be a person, Not in theway he wants to be.

Matt (02:46:01):
Mhmm.

Rachel (02:46:02):
And I think that that is but he never stops trying.

Nick (02:46:07):
And

Rachel (02:46:08):
that's part of it too. And that's why this show is so
phenomenal. And I had a briefdiscussion with somebody on
threads about it, and they werelike, well, you know, it sets
all the tropes. Like, it doesthe sunrise, sunset, and I'm
like, yeah. It does.
That's great. But, also, like,his quest for redemption is what
we get in every and, like, thatgets echoed through the genre.
That's what Angel is all about.That's what Moonlight is all

(02:46:30):
about. But nobody does it, like,Forever Knight does it.
Yeah. Because they they had thatnineties sincerity, but they
didn't feel like they needed togive us hope. They didn't feel
like they needed to give us a,oh, yeah. No. He got it.

(02:46:50):
He's fine now. Look. It endedhe's got a white picket fence,
and he and Natalie have 16 kidsand 3 dogs and 4 cats. And isn't
that great?

Matt (02:46:59):
Yep. And I would say that's a that's a really good
narrative if you can pull it offthat if you can convey at the
end that even though it endedbadly, the entire struggle was a
worthwhile effort.

Rachel (02:47:18):
Yeah. Yeah.

Matt (02:47:21):
Because there was a chance.

Rachel (02:47:22):
There was a chance. It got him the chance. If he had
what

Matt (02:47:27):
you need in a redemption arc. Right. Even if the
character that is trying toredeem themselves dies, has a
tragic ending, you need to feelthat their whole struggle was
the correct the correctstrategy.

Rachel (02:47:49):
Yeah. Yeah. Oh my god. This is my favorite. No.
No. Season sense 8 has myfavorite season series finale
because it gives you everythingyou want in a hopeful, like
amazing with an orgy. I mean,come on. But this is close. This

(02:48:14):
is close.
To me, this seals it. Like, thismakes it 1 complete package. I'm
you know how sometimes when ashow gets canceled, they end on
a cliffhanger because it's like,well, we thought we were coming
back.

Matt (02:48:25):
Right.

Rachel (02:48:26):
They didn't. They ended it.

Matt (02:48:28):
And this was this was the right way to go to say

Rachel (02:48:34):
We're finished.

Matt (02:48:35):
There's very little chance that, like, there may somebody
may have had some hope, like, in

Rachel (02:48:41):
the production chain. Start the camp there was a kick
start the night campaign tobring it back.

Matt (02:48:46):
To get season 4? Yeah. Okay. So there were lots of
people that had convincedthemselves that it was possible
Yeah. To get a season 4.
But the writers, the productionteam, decided it's better to go

(02:49:08):
out and complete the story thanit is to end on a cliffhanger
and cross our fingers for aseason 4.

Rachel (02:49:19):
Right. Yeah. I mean, this was common in the nineties
where everybody kinda had tostay status quo. It couldn't be
like the Vampire Diaries,whereby season 4, everyone is
some random supernaturalbeastie, and the whole setting
has changed, and, you couldn'treally do that.

Matt (02:49:34):
Right. It was the it was like the TiVo DVR. The being
able to record

Nick (02:49:40):
You were

Rachel (02:49:41):
planning for syndication. I needed to be able
to pop in in season 2 and pop inseason 1 and pop in season 3 and

Matt (02:49:47):
But feel like I'm watching this channel. Have, like, huge
changes to the to the story, tothe characters Yeah. Over, like,
less than a season. Yeah. Yourviewers have to you have to have
an expectation that youraudience is going to be able to

(02:50:08):
watch every single episode,preferably in order.
And that didn't happen untilthe, like, 2005, 2006 at the
earliest.

Rachel (02:50:22):
You weren't hoping that Natalie was gonna come back as a
vampire, and we were all gonnalike, Lacroix just stabs him in
the stomach and then, like,picks him up like a shish kebab
and walks him out the door.

Matt (02:50:33):
You could imagine, let's see. It might be reasonable to
say, okay, season 4, Nataliecomes back as a vampire, which
is a big shift to the wholedynamic. But between a season
season finale and a seasonpremiere, you can have big

(02:50:57):
changes. Yeah. But betweenepisode 21 and 22, you can't.

Rachel (02:51:05):
Yeah. I mean, what I'm saying is they really wasn't
they were giving you no hope.They were like, this isn't
ending. Right. And but they gaveyou just that little bit of, but
we didn't see Lacosteak.
Exactly. Nick. And so just inlike, we're gonna leave you
this. We're gonna leave you thetiniest of bread crumbs.

Matt (02:51:26):
Right.

Rachel (02:51:27):
Or you can imagine that this is the final ending. This
is it. LaCroix killed hisdaughter and his son in the same
week because he kills Divya.

Matt (02:51:42):
Oh. And then he kills Divya.

Rachel (02:51:44):
Yeah. Nick. And he doesn't have Jeanette anymore
because now Jeanette istechnically Nick's. And so
Jeanette now long no longer hasa master, I guess. No longer has
a sire.
I mean, yeah, there's not awhole lot more to say about
this. It ended. Got some bangingfucking Nigel Bennett earned his

(02:52:09):
money. He ate the scenery inthis whole episode, and so does
Gare at the end when he'sstaring into the fire, and he's
like he's crying because it isfinally too much. It is finally
too far, and he can't do itagain.

(02:52:33):
And he's done. And he asksLacroix to help him be done. And
I'm less mad at this than I wasabout the Sean asking Tracy to
stake him because this feelslike you're my closest friend.

Nick (02:52:50):
You are

Rachel (02:52:50):
the 1 that I always saw doing this. I I've stabbed you
before. Maybe you should do itnow. Your turn. Your turn.
I just, I I don't know. I theyou I guess I'm the villain in
your story, and then the no,man. You're my closest friend.
It didn't get better than that.I'm sorry.
I've watched a lot of televisionsince then, and I can't I cannot

(02:53:12):
think of another moment that wasthis, like, charged and
emotional. And it's buried inthere in this cheesy nineties
vampire show. Maybe the season 4finale of Babylon 5, but I'm not
gonna talk about what it's meantbecause I'm gonna start crying.

Matt (02:53:32):
Or goblin.

Rachel (02:53:33):
Oh, Jesus. Yeah. I will come as the rain because then I
will be able to touch your face.Yeah. No.
It's fine. It's fine.

Nick (02:53:41):
Yeah.

Rachel (02:53:41):
It's fine. American Canadian Health Show. I just
it's so good. It's so good, andI I haven't been able to watch
it. Like, I have had to nomatter how much I wanted to be
like, okay.
I'm gonna I don't quite rememberwhat happens in the valley. I
wanna go check it out. I haven'tbeen able to watch it because I
kept this a secret from you for2 years, and I feel like

(02:54:04):
somebody needs to get mecupcakes Because I didn't tell
you that the entire main castdies in the last 2 episodes of
season 3, except Reese andLacroix. And we don't know
because we don't see Reeseagain. Yeah.
We don't see Reese from themoment that we see him in the
hospital. And he's like, there'slife after this, Nick. I

(02:54:27):
promise. And that's it. Mhmm.
Because Nick is done with thewhole pretending to be a cop
thing. Alright. Do you haveanything else to say? Nope.
We're gonna do the novels, butwe don't have a timeline because

(02:54:50):
the novels take longer thanwatching an episode.
Clearly, we can't do 1 of thosea week. So the best thing to do
is subscribe, and then you'llget a notification when we
update this. So you won't missit when we do those, and we may
yet still at least read season4, the fan made season 4, which
you can find online and talkabout it. But I don't think

(02:55:12):
we're gonna talk about itepisode by episode. We may just
do a whole retrospective of whathappens because there's some
interesting plot lines, and it'sall written in script form.
Yeah. Yeah. You can find it. Ithink it's by Greer Watson. You
can find it if you Google herand forever night fan season 4.
And we did finally finish themerch for the vampire dog 5 k.

(02:55:36):
So I'll be figuring out exactlyhow I wanna offer those because
I wanna make them, so I makeenough to be able to donate to
the MS Society of Canada.

Nick (02:55:45):
Mhmm.

Rachel (02:55:46):
So I'll put all those kinds of updates in the feed,
but you gotta subscribe in orderto to see it because it won't be
every Monday anymore. So I guessuntil next time, friends.

Matt (02:55:59):
You were my closest friend.

Rachel (02:56:02):
Aw. This is come in 81 kilo, signing off.

Matt (02:56:07):
Bye. Bye.
Damn you, Nicholas.

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Forever Knight (Season 3 Ep 22) - "Last Knight"

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.css-14f5ked{margin:0;word-break:break-word;display:-webkit-box;-webkit-box-orient:vertical;box-orient:vertical;-webkit-line-clamp:2;overflow:hidden;}Forever Knight (Season 3 Ep 22) - "Last Knight"