This podcast originally aired on Finding Joy with Joyan. It originally aired on January 17, 2024. Links to the original airing can be found below. Many thanks to Joy and her staff for a wonderful experience.
Discover the intricacies of mental health as Dr. Marian Jefferson, an esteemed expert in social services, joins us to demystify the complexities of anxiety and the value of coaching and counseling. Gain an understanding of the different faces of anxiety, including Generalized Anxiety Disorder (GAD), social anxiety, and panic disorder, and learn how to distinguish normal stress from an anxiety disorder. Dr. Jefferson expertly guides us through the importance of recognizing personal triggers, setting realistic expectations, and cultivating coping mechanisms to not only manage anxiety but also enhance overall joy, peace, and happiness in our lives.
Embark on a journey through the landscape of emotional wellness, where we probe into the nuances of dealing with anxiety within relationships, particularly when chronic ailments or heavy stressors are at play. Dr. Jefferson underscores the criticality of open communication and community support, from friends to faith groups, in lightening the load of caregiving. Furthermore, she briefs us on the spectrum of professional interventions—from therapy and medication to meditation and mindfulness—that can reinforce our mental fortitude. Whether you're navigating your own mental health challenges or supporting someone else's, this episode equips you with the insights and tools for a healthier, more balanced life.
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https://joyanchan.com/
Joyan has been featured in numerous magazines, publications, and shows and has spoken at many industry events. In March 2022, Joyan was awarded the Outstanding Leadership Award on stage in Dubai, UAE. In the same year, she was also named a successful person by Britishpedia. During her interview with the publication house, she said, “Because I took the courage to take the path less taken.”
Thank you for joining our podcast today. If you have any questions, or comments, or would like to share your own experiences with aromatherapy, please feel free to reach out to us. You can connect with us on social media, or visit our website for additional resources and information.
Don't forget to subscribe to our podcast to stay updated with our latest episodes, and if you enjoyed today's content, please consider leaving us a review on your favorite podcast platform. Your feedback is greatly appreciated, and it helps others discover the valuable insights shared in our series.
We look forward to having you back with us for our next episode, where we'll continue to explore the wonderful world of aromatherapy and its role in promoting mental and emotional well-being. Until then, take a deep breath, relax, and be well. I hope to hear from you soon. Your feedback is most welcome.
www.linkedin.com/in/marianjefferson
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
Joining us today is the esteemed founding director
of Warrior's Purse Non-ProphetProcesses.
Over 20 years of invaluableexperience in the field of
social services, demonstrating aprofound dedication to the
well-being of the militaryveterans, their families and the
broader community through hercounselling, coaching and
consolidation on health andwell-being.
(00:20):
Her remarkable leadership ismarked by a heartfelt commitment
to fostering a supportivecommunity and making a positive
impact in the lives of those sheserves.
She's here today to empower youto cultivate a positive life
and a positive mental well-being.
So, ladies and gentlemen, helpme welcome Dr Merriand Jefferson
(00:42):
.
Speaker 2 (00:42):
Thank you.
Thank you.
It's a privilege to be with you, joy.
I'm looking forward to the restof the day.
Speaker 1 (00:49):
Now.
It's a joy to have you on ourshow today because anxiety I
think I told you before anxietyis a topic that we have not yet
touched on and you will be thefirst one to talk about it, and
I'm really excited I come backto learn more about anxiety and
basically how to manage it.
Well, because I believe, atsome point of time, most people
(01:10):
right we suffer from anxiety,panic attack, depression, mental
health challenges in general,so something that I personally
experienced and struggled in thepast.
So, yeah, I would love to talkto you about that and learn more
about how we can really live alife with more joy and peace and
happiness.
So, but the first place that Iwill start with you is you told
(01:31):
me there's a difference betweencoaching and counseling, so I
just want to know what is thedifference between coaching and
counseling?
Speaker 2 (01:39):
Well.
So with counseling inparticular, you are bound by
laws of wherever the state is orprovince that you where you
practice, and so there arecertain rules and regulations
that you have to adhere to.
In coaching, I would say thatyour relationship with the
(02:05):
person is going to be contingentupon specific goals that they
want to meet in a fairly shortperiod of time, whereas
counseling for some people lastsa good amount of time because
they're working on lifelongissues.
Usually when they enter intocounseling, such as anxiety that
(02:28):
has taken a hold of them fornot just a few weeks, but maybe
after a specific incident hasoccurred or maybe there's a
chronic issue.
But with coaching, we would say, okay, let's set a goal for
dealing with anxiety whenrelated to stage fright.
(02:48):
Let's just say that.
And then, once you haveachieved that goal, you can
continue to work with the coach.
But you'd work with the coachon another goal, right?
So I think of the differencestarkly as a coach on a
basketball team or a baseballteam, and so if you're on a
baseball team, you might work onyour pitch, right?
(03:12):
But then, after you haveperfected that, then you'll
strengthen that in certain areasso that you can even become
even more professional and adeptat not just your pitch but now
the technique and all of thosekinds of things.
And once that's done, then youmove on to the next thing, and
(03:35):
so coaching and counseling is abit like that, and so I have the
counseling credentials.
But the coaching I found washelpful, because many of my
patients began the relationshipstating that they had a stigma
or a way that they thought aboutcounseling that was not helpful
(03:57):
for them, and so they came intothe counseling relationship
with a lot of anxiety.
How long is this going to be?
How many questions are yougoing to ask?
When will this be over?
Those kinds of things before weeven begin the process of
working, and so we have to learnthen how to cultivate a
(04:18):
relationship with the personacross from you.
But you can't do that untilyou're able to set them at ease.
So a lot of the beginnings ofcounseling is indeed coaching.
Speaker 1 (04:30):
Yeah, okay, before we talk about how to manage
anxiety, what exactly is anxiety?
How would you define it?
Speaker 2 (04:38):
I think that's a great question.
Anxiety is a natural responseto stress and everybody has
stress.
When it becomes excessive andpersistent, it can lead to
various symptoms and these mayinclude symptoms like
restlessness, excessive worry,muscle tension and difficulty
concentrating.
(04:58):
It can be disruptive to yoursleep, to your eating habits.
It can be disruptive even tothe way you visualize, see and
understand the rest of the worldin response to what you're
experiencing in the moment.
Speaker 1 (05:14):
So are there different types of anxiety or
there's only one type?
Speaker 2 (05:20):
Yeah, there are various different types of
anxiety.
There's a type of anxiety couldbe a generalized anxiety
disorder, known by the acronymGAD, and a generalized anxiety
disorder means that there's notone specific trigger for your
anxiety.
We just talked about a coupleof seconds ago, stage fright,
(05:44):
and stage fright isn't just forpeople who are actors or
actresses.
It could be as simple as I haveto go take this test and test.
Taking itself may be a triggerfor anxiety, whereas in the
classroom you master everything,you're good at conversation,
you know all the answers, butwhen it's time to take that test
(06:05):
, you know you don't fare aswell because anxiety overcomes
you.
But with someone withgeneralized anxiety, the
triggers could be multiple andvast, to the point that some
people may not even understandwhat the triggers are for them,
and so then they are diagnosedwith generalized anxiety if the
(06:27):
anxiety persists for about sixmonths or longer.
Social anxiety is another formof anxiety, and the social
aspect of this definition givesit away.
It could be just havingdifficulty with being around
other people or havingdifficulty with talking.
(06:47):
One example that I like to tellis a young man meets a young
woman and he's been thinkingabout what to say to this young
woman that he has taken a likeinto and he goes over what to
say in his mind consistently andhe feels confident now that
he's worked this through.
But when he gets there to talkwith her, he finds no words, and
(07:12):
that's a social anxiety.
Or being amongst people thatyou don't know, this could be a
form of social anxiety.
How do I begin a conversation?
What do I say in theconversation?
And this could be prettyfrightening or anxiety producing
experience for some people.
So in addition to that, youhave panic disorder, and so the
(07:40):
panic disorder is the anxietymoves to a place where you
experience something thatdoesn't just trigger anxiety,
but it causes you to panic andlose control over the situation.
And when people experience panic, their fight or flight senses
(08:00):
are activated and really theyjust want to do anything to get
out of there.
And so those symptoms that wetalked about earlier the
restlessness, the irritability,those kind of things those are
just off the charts and theywant to do anything to quell
that, but they feel helpless todo that.
So when people are in a panic,they can have some of those same
(08:22):
symptoms.
They may sweat profusely, theymay have difficulty breathing,
they may even be angry, feellike they're backed into a
corner and maybe even want tofight, or feeling helpless and
want to just cry, and it mayappear to you that that person
is out of control, but reallywhat is happening in their body
(08:46):
is that their body and theirbrain are not necessarily
working well together to helpthem to calm themselves.
Everybody experiences anxiety,but for some people, depending
on what the trigger is, it'sdifficult for them to
self-regulate, and so they moveinto this kind of panic, if you
will.
And while everyone experiencesstress, anxiety disorders
(09:11):
involve persistent anddisproportionate levels of
anxiety that can significantlyimpact the way that they move
throughout their lives, the waythat they are able to work or
have relationships, take care ofthemselves.
Some people's disorders arecrippling and disabling, and so
(09:32):
that's preeminently importantwhen you're dealing with someone
whose life has been sodisruptive.
They must seek professionalhelp.
Speaker 1 (09:44):
Okay, so I have so many questions, but the next
question I want to know is soyou mentioned about triggers a
lot in our last part.
How do we first know whattriggers our anxiety?
Speaker 2 (09:58):
I think, maybe sitting in a quiet place, when
you're not, when you haven'tbeen triggered, to think about
what are some of the things thatare happening when I feel, so
you can say when I feel restless, I'm in this situation.
(10:19):
Or when I feel afraid, these aremy thoughts, when I feel that I
want to pull away and just hide, these are my thoughts, these
are my feelings.
And as you are able to walkthrough those things, then when
does this happen?
Does this happen in the morning?
(10:40):
Does it happen in the evening?
Does this happen in an academicsetting?
When does this happen?
Does this happen in a worksetting?
Does it happen when I'm givenan assignment and I don't have
any confidence that I can do it,or I don't have what I need to
accomplish it?
And so you're asking yourselfthese questions to identify the
(11:01):
trigger, and the trigger may notbe immediately or readily known
to you.
It may take not only thatwriting exercise, if you will,
and that thought exercise, butsitting with someone who could
help to walk you through thatpath and ask you questions to
help you to realize what ishappening when you're
(11:23):
experiencing certain things.
Speaker 1 (11:26):
Okay, so why do people develop anxiety?
Because I remember.
Here's my own personalexperience.
I remember I have neverexperienced anxiety before,
never, ever in my entire life.
Depression, yes, but notanxiety per se.
But I remember just I can'tremember which period of time,
(11:48):
but it was quite recent, likelast year or something that I
suddenly felt anxious likewithout any reason.
So why do we?
Like all of a sudden developanxiety or panic attack.
Speaker 2 (12:01):
I think there are certain neurochemical imbalances
as well, so it may not benecessarily connected to a lack
or an inability to cope withstress, because there are
certain things that we mightexperience that, again, are not
readily available to us and so,not being fully aware of your
(12:26):
situation, I would walk youthrough those same questions
that we talked about earlier.
Is it a time of year For somepeople?
I had a patient who was veryirritable around a certain time
every year and it would last fora few months, and she became
(12:49):
very frustrated in coming in tosee me and she said I can't
figure it out, and it led her toconsume substances in order to
calm herself.
And that had gone so far thatnow she was consuming substances
not just once a day but severaltimes a day to feel calm.
(13:11):
And so, as we walked throughthat process, we discovered that
she had lost her mother in thewinter months and that her
mother but her mother becamesick and then she had died in
the winter three months afterthat.
So that three months periodsort of held for her in her body
(13:35):
a memory that it was respondingto.
Her body and her mind wasresponding to the memory of that
loss and even though she feltthat she had grieved that loss,
there are certain aspects of theloss, aspects of the loss that
she hadn't yet dealt with, andso Bessel Vander Koek has
(13:56):
written a book called the BodyKeep Score.
So, even though she believed shehad moved on, her body
remembered the stress and thetrauma of that loss and around
anniversary time it would comeup again in her subconscious.
But she was not really aware.
(14:17):
Cognitively, she was not awareof what was going on.
So once she was able to pointto her trigger, which was the
loss of her mother, then wedeveloped a plan to honor her
mother.
We talked about her mother andwhat her mother meant to her.
We talked about good memories,we talked about memories that
(14:40):
were not so good for her, sothat she could have a full
picture, to be able to hold andsit even in the discomfort of
that and learn how to cope withthat discomfort, so that it
didn't overwhelm her and thatshe was in control of even those
moments.
Because everybody not onlyfeels anxiety, everybody
(15:01):
experiences suffering to somedegree or another, and our goal
in therapy is not to help peoplenever feel anxiety or never
feel suffering, but how to copewith anxiety and how to suffer
well.
Speaker 1 (15:17):
So how can we differentiate between normal
stress, because stress is normalin our day-to-day life, work
relationship, right?
How do we differentiate betweennormal stress and a more
serious anxiety disorder?
Speaker 2 (15:32):
Right.
So remember, we talked aboutanxiety as a natural response to
stress, and so when we see thatwe are experiencing stress, but
it causes us discomfort that wecannot cope with well, then we
have to do things about it.
Our first line of defense isdevelop different coping
(15:55):
mechanisms, and so if cookingevery day stresses me out, then
I need to find another way tocope with cooking every day, and
so for me, as a busyprofessional, what helps me is
to understand that I don't haveto be a chef in the kitchen
cooking a five course meal inorder to satisfy the needs of my
(16:19):
family, and so I had tosimplify things.
Or I don't have to come homeand cook a meal.
I can cook several days in arow and have that already done.
Or I can make things that weuse as a base where people can
come in and put things together,and they don't necessarily need
(16:39):
my help.
And so now I'm not stressingwhen I'm at work because I
didn't take the chicken out ofthe freezer before I left for
the day.
That's a simplified way oflooking at it.
But if I'm in a relationship andthe relationship has soured and
I want to continue therelationship but I feel like
(17:01):
I've done everything I could,and so every time I walk into
the house and I see this person,I am triggered by the fact that
I believe I'm in a place that'suntenable for me.
It's not making me happy, I'mnot adding to anything because
of this stressful, anxietyproducing situation, and I want
(17:25):
to run.
And so here again, we'll walkthrough the value of this
relationship.
What do you really want out ofthe relationship?
Do you want to leave, or areyou just frustrated because you
don't have enough answers to beable to speak to the situation
that you're in?
Are you frustrated becauseevery time you come in, you feel
(17:49):
helpless?
Are you frustrated because yourfeeling is you're not getting
what you need?
Are you out of the relationshipfrom the other person and have
you talked through that?
What are some of the thingsthat you have done?
And so it may not be that youhave to consider changes that
(18:11):
are life-altering, but it mayjust be that you have set
expectations and now that thoseexpectations are not met, you're
dissatisfied and you feel thatin the core of your being and
you just don't like that, and sothat affects the rhythm of life
, not only internally as itrelates to you, but also in the
(18:33):
relationship as a whole, and theother person is feeling that
too.
How do we know that?
If you just think about it,have you ever held a baby close
to you?
And the quiet baby that someoneputs in your arms now becomes
restless and irritable and kindof moving about.
They're uncomfortable, right.
And we say all the time thatthe baby senses that you're not
(18:57):
comfortable holding this babyright and they say everything's
going to be OK.
She trusts you, just hold her,love her, help her to know that
you're secure.
And she's secure as you holdher right.
Because that child senseswhat's happening with us.
(19:17):
Even though they're an infant,they know that something isn't
right.
That's anxiety that that childis feeling.
They're sensing your anxietybecause as human beings we are
linked together just that way,and so a way to really cope with
those situations is not to saythe situation must be fixed and
(19:40):
repaired in this moment, at thistime, because that's not
reasonable.
Okay, so you want to set areasonable expectation partner
with the person that you'restruggling with, and that may be
as simple as putting the kidsto bed early and setting aside a
time for just a communionbetween the two of you.
(20:01):
It may not last, but for 20minutes, but setting even what
we call fair fighting rules,that there's no put downs, that
we're going to lift one anotherup, that we're going to focus on
one area that we want todiscover.
You know, have new discovery inwhether it's how we communicate
with the other person, sharingwith the other person you know
(20:26):
what makes you anxious andgetting buy-in from that other
person.
Now, sometimes you know youneed to have someone to help you
facilitate these questions.
We have at Warriors, pursepreparing and rich marriage and
relationship counseling, becausesometimes you know those
situations are, you know,untenable and not safe to do by
(20:48):
yourself because it just getsout of sorts, if you will.
But I think that if we takethat example, realizing that
there are some things that wecan do and you have a coach that
could help coach you throughthat, I think that those
relationships can be restored,along with the anxiety decreased
(21:11):
, because now we have arealistic expectation of what
we're looking at.
You know, sometimes you may bein a relationship with someone
who has a chronic ailment.
Your expectation was that youwould live happily ever after
and none of these things wouldtouch you.
But if you're a caregiver,you're constantly under stress
(21:31):
and nobody really talks aboutthe life from the caregiver's
aspect and the anxiety and thefrustration and sometimes the
anger and irritability thatcomes with that job.
And sometimes you need somebodyto help walk you through what
you can anticipate but also howto take care of yourself.
(21:51):
You need family, and if youdon't have family you have to do
what I call manufacturingfamily.
That means that if you've got afriend that is closer than a
brother, that friend is family.
You know, if you've got peoplefrom your church or your
community that will be presentfor you, pull them in because
(22:12):
that can help you to share theload so that you're not feeling
that kind of stress.
And, you know, get someeducation about what is
happening.
So a lot of times anxiety isbecause we just don't have
enough information about what'shappening, and so our mind is
cast in the future and we thinkabout the worst possible
(22:33):
outcomes.
And it doesn't have to be thatway.
That requires training.
You know, once you'veexperienced a stress or stressor
, your your, it imprints on yourbrain and it can determine how
you will respond to the nextstressor, and so you need an
intervention.
So when you identify what thewhat, the triggers are for it.
(22:55):
Then you walk through theoptions that you have.
How will I think about this?
How will I behave?
How will I take care of myself?
Are there other places that Ican go to separate myself just
for a moment so that I can beable to think differently about
the situation and come back withfresh eyes?
All of those things, I think,can help when people are
(23:16):
experiencing anxiety On thepanic side.
Sometimes anxiety and panicdisorders require not just
coaching, but long-term therapyor a combination of both.
And sometimes it also requiresthat you take medication, and
some people don't like the ideaof medication prescription
(23:37):
medication and I get that.
And so we work with people alsoto do more natural things, some
of the coping skills we haven'ttalked about meditation,
mindfulness, exercise.
I have people that I work withwho are deficient in certain
(24:00):
vitamins and just in addingthose, in exercising, getting
into the sun, eating well wehave health coaches as well
Doing those kinds of things.
They have been able to see adifference in their daily lives,
especially around the abilityto cope with anxiety, if you
(24:23):
will.
Speaker 1 (24:25):
Yeah, so I know you published a book because we
haven't yet talked about thecoping mechanism, the healthier
coping mechanism.
So your book is all about thefive-minute skills to master
your anxiety and panic attacks.
And I'm telling you guys, thisis a book.
If you're struggling orsuffering with anxiety and
(24:46):
you're not ready to maybe workwith Marianne, but you can buy
her book and learn about theskills to cope with anxiety and
panic attack in a healthier way.
I would say so go get the bookand if you have any questions
you can ask her directly.
But so, marianne, when do weknow?
So people can go and buy thebook, they can read about it,
(25:07):
they can learn more aboutanxiety, the knowledge, educate
themselves.
But when is the time to getprofessional help?
Speaker 2 (25:17):
That's a great question, I think, if you're at
the point where it'ssignificantly interfering with
your daily function.
For some people it may be theywake up in the morning and they
turn the alarm clock off overand over and over again.
They pull the covers back overtheir head and they say to
(25:39):
themselves I just can't do ittoday because of the anxiety.
It could not just be thatthey're ready to say this is
anxiety because, again, as youmentioned earlier, some people
don't know the differencebetween anxiety and anything
else.
It may be that what you know,that you're in a state of
(26:01):
emotion that you can't cope withand it's challenging you now
physically, mentally,emotionally and physically.
I think it's time to get somehelp.
I think if it leads to againphysical symptoms and it lasts
for a while, I think you need toseek professional help.
Speaker 1 (26:22):
Right, yeah, that's so true.
Earlier also mentioned aboutdecaying.
So for yourself as a counselor,as a coach, how are you, while
you're helping someone, others,navigate their anxiety, panic
attack, how do you handle theemotion at all?
I came with hearing about yourclients, drugers and challenges,
(26:43):
and the question is, how do youtake it off your own mental
health while supporting othersin their mental health journey?
Speaker 2 (26:50):
I think that's an excellent question.
In the field, we say everycounselor needs a counselor.
When you're practicing andstudying to become a counselor,
one of the things that you haveto do is you have to receive
counseling from a counselor sothat you know what it's like to
(27:13):
sit on the other side, but alsoso that you understand what it's
like to put your things, putyour burdens down, your thoughts
and share with someone elseyour struggles, just to have
someone listen to you or maybeeven help you problem solve.
That's the first thing is thatyou need someone to talk to.
(27:36):
As a professional, I have thosebecause I have a great support
system.
The second thing is awarenessand mindfulness.
As I am aware that I'm facingdifficulty and, in some
instances, things that I haveabsolutely no ability to change.
Then I have to think about whocan support me in a place where
(28:03):
it's just going to be hard.
I have to learn to live withincertain boundaries.
I have good support systemthere as well.
Exercise, eating well, livingwell, spirituality I'm a person
of faith as well.
Reading music all of thosethings helped me to cope.
(28:25):
I love massages.
I love going to get my nailsdone, my mani-pedis I love doing
all of those things that'sscheduled in to my life as if it
were a medicine, because indeedit is.
It's part of the coping that Ineed in order to keep the wheels
(28:46):
oiled, if you will, to keep memoving down the road, so that as
I move through the difficultiesthat I can feel a sense of how
do I put this, feel a sense ofsafety and security in what I'm
doing.
(29:06):
Not that everything is 100percent the way that I would
like for them to be, but it isreasonable and I can set
reasonable expectations formyself without placing burdens
on other people, which again canbe frustrating for people when
you feel like something shouldbe some way and it really isn't.
(29:27):
The big book of AlcoholicsAnonymous, on page 417, says and
acceptance is the key to all myproblems.
Today, a lot of anxiety reallystarts from a place of I can't
tolerate this.
I won't tolerate this.
Things shouldn't be this way.
The reality is when you can saythings are the way that they
(29:50):
are and I need to learn how toeither live with it or learn
what I need to change it becauseit is within my power to do,
then things will be immenselybetter, I believe, and then you
can learn again to cope with thethings that you can change and
change them, and then to sufferwell when there are things that
(30:13):
you cannot change.
Speaker 1 (30:15):
Wow, that is powerful .
Yeah, because I think, for themost part, the reason why we
have anxiety is because we aretrying to change the things that
happened in the past that couldnever be changed.
So we are trying to changeother people that we also have
no control of.
So that's why I believe that'spart of the reason why we all
(30:35):
feel anxious from time to time,and what we have, truly what we
have control, is this moment,right here, right now.
So it's a pleasant moment.
That's where mindfulness comesin.
That's why meditation is sohelpful.
So thank you so much for comingto our show today and meet our
listeners, despite the situationover there.
Thank you so much for beinghere and being present with all
(30:56):
of us today.
Now, tell my listeners wherethey can learn more about you,
where should they go to get abook, and if they want to work
with you, where should they go.
Speaker 2 (31:05):
So the book is Five Minute Skills to Master Anxiety
and Panic Attacks and you canfind that book on Amazon and we
are doing pre-sale on ourwebsite, which is
warriorspursecom.
If you want to get in contactwith me, you can give in contact
with me.
My email is connect1adwwarriorspursecom or mhfaadw
(31:34):
warriorspursecom.
It has been a pleasure to talkwith you today, Joy.
I have certainly enjoyed mytime on your podcast.
Thank you again.
Speaker 1 (31:46):
Yeah, thank you so much for taking your time out to
share with us so generously,and you have been very kind with
your time today.
So listen, guys, I hope youlearned a lot from this episode.
I hope you find this episodeextremely helpful so we can all
nurture a positive mentalwellbeing.
Like I said in the verybeginning, go, follow Dr Maria,
go to her website, get a book,thank her for coming to our show
(32:09):
today, reach out to her if youare interested in working with
her.
I'll put all the links,including her links and the
emails and the website and thebooks, in the show notes below.
So make sure you go and checkit out and also remember to like
and subscribe so you never missanother episode coming to you
every Wednesday, and follow uson Instagram, if you haven't
already, so we can connect withyou as well, and I will always
(32:31):
leave you the same way as Ileave with every other episode.
Show up, the world needs youand you need you.
Thanks for listening and I wishyou all a joyful and amazing
day ahead.
Joining us today is the esteemed founding director
of Warrior's Purse Non-ProphetProcesses.
Over 20 years of invaluableexperience in the field of
social services, demonstrating aprofound dedication to the
well-being of the militaryveterans, their families and the
broader community through hercounselling, coaching and
consolidation on health andwell-being.
(00:20):
Her remarkable leadership ismarked by a heartfelt commitment
to fostering a supportivecommunity and making a positive
impact in the lives of those sheserves.
She's here today to empower youto cultivate a positive life
and a positive mental well-being.
So, ladies and gentlemen, helpme welcome Dr Merriand Jefferson
(00:42):
.
Speaker 2 (00:42):
Thank you.
Thank you.
It's a privilege to be with you, joy.
I'm looking forward to the restof the day.
Speaker 1 (00:49):
Now.
It's a joy to have you on ourshow today because anxiety I
think I told you before anxietyis a topic that we have not yet
touched on and you will be thefirst one to talk about it, and
I'm really excited I come backto learn more about anxiety and
basically how to manage it.
Well, because I believe, atsome point of time, most people
(01:10):
right we suffer from anxiety,panic attack, depression, mental
health challenges in general,so something that I personally
experienced and struggled in thepast.
So, yeah, I would love to talkto you about that and learn more
about how we can really live alife with more joy and peace and
happiness.
So, but the first place that Iwill start with you is you told
(01:31):
me there's a difference betweencoaching and counseling, so I
just want to know what is thedifference between coaching and
counseling?
Speaker 2 (01:39):
Well.
So with counseling inparticular, you are bound by
laws of wherever the state is orprovince that you where you
practice, and so there arecertain rules and regulations
that you have to adhere to.
In coaching, I would say thatyour relationship with the
(02:05):
person is going to be contingentupon specific goals that they
want to meet in a fairly shortperiod of time, whereas
counseling for some people lastsa good amount of time because
they're working on lifelongissues.
Usually when they enter intocounseling, such as anxiety that
(02:28):
has taken a hold of them fornot just a few weeks, but maybe
after a specific incident hasoccurred or maybe there's a
chronic issue.
But with coaching, we would say, okay, let's set a goal for
dealing with anxiety whenrelated to stage fright.
(02:48):
Let's just say that.
And then, once you haveachieved that goal, you can
continue to work with the coach.
But you'd work with the coachon another goal, right?
So I think of the differencestarkly as a coach on a
basketball team or a baseballteam, and so if you're on a
baseball team, you might work onyour pitch, right?
(03:12):
But then, after you haveperfected that, then you'll
strengthen that in certain areasso that you can even become
even more professional and adeptat not just your pitch but now
the technique and all of thosekinds of things.
And once that's done, then youmove on to the next thing, and
(03:35):
so coaching and counseling is abit like that, and so I have the
counseling credentials.
But the coaching I found washelpful, because many of my
patients began the relationshipstating that they had a stigma
or a way that they thought aboutcounseling that was not helpful
(03:57):
for them, and so they came intothe counseling relationship
with a lot of anxiety.
How long is this going to be?
How many questions are yougoing to ask?
When will this be over?
Those kinds of things before weeven begin the process of
working, and so we have to learnthen how to cultivate a
(04:18):
relationship with the personacross from you.
But you can't do that untilyou're able to set them at ease.
So a lot of the beginnings ofcounseling is indeed coaching.
Speaker 1 (04:30):
Yeah, okay, before we talk about how to manage
anxiety, what exactly is anxiety?
How would you define it?
Speaker 2 (04:38):
I think that's a great question.
Anxiety is a natural responseto stress and everybody has
stress.
When it becomes excessive andpersistent, it can lead to
various symptoms and these mayinclude symptoms like
restlessness, excessive worry,muscle tension and difficulty
concentrating.
(04:58):
It can be disruptive to yoursleep, to your eating habits.
It can be disruptive even tothe way you visualize, see and
understand the rest of the worldin response to what you're
experiencing in the moment.
Speaker 1 (05:14):
So are there different types of anxiety or
there's only one type?
Speaker 2 (05:20):
Yeah, there are various different types of
anxiety.
There's a type of anxiety couldbe a generalized anxiety
disorder, known by the acronymGAD, and a generalized anxiety
disorder means that there's notone specific trigger for your
anxiety.
We just talked about a coupleof seconds ago, stage fright,
(05:44):
and stage fright isn't just forpeople who are actors or
actresses.
It could be as simple as I haveto go take this test and test.
Taking itself may be a triggerfor anxiety, whereas in the
classroom you master everything,you're good at conversation,
you know all the answers, butwhen it's time to take that test
(06:05):
, you know you don't fare aswell because anxiety overcomes
you.
But with someone withgeneralized anxiety, the
triggers could be multiple andvast, to the point that some
people may not even understandwhat the triggers are for them,
and so then they are diagnosedwith generalized anxiety if the
(06:27):
anxiety persists for about sixmonths or longer.
Social anxiety is another formof anxiety, and the social
aspect of this definition givesit away.
It could be just havingdifficulty with being around
other people or havingdifficulty with talking.
(06:47):
One example that I like to tellis a young man meets a young
woman and he's been thinkingabout what to say to this young
woman that he has taken a likeinto and he goes over what to
say in his mind consistently andhe feels confident now that
he's worked this through.
But when he gets there to talkwith her, he finds no words, and
(07:12):
that's a social anxiety.
Or being amongst people thatyou don't know, this could be a
form of social anxiety.
How do I begin a conversation?
What do I say in theconversation?
And this could be prettyfrightening or anxiety producing
experience for some people.
So in addition to that, youhave panic disorder, and so the
(07:40):
panic disorder is the anxietymoves to a place where you
experience something thatdoesn't just trigger anxiety,
but it causes you to panic andlose control over the situation.
And when people experience panic, their fight or flight senses
(08:00):
are activated and really theyjust want to do anything to get
out of there.
And so those symptoms that wetalked about earlier the
restlessness, the irritability,those kind of things those are
just off the charts and theywant to do anything to quell
that, but they feel helpless todo that.
So when people are in a panic,they can have some of those same
(08:22):
symptoms.
They may sweat profusely, theymay have difficulty breathing,
they may even be angry, feellike they're backed into a
corner and maybe even want tofight, or feeling helpless and
want to just cry, and it mayappear to you that that person
is out of control, but reallywhat is happening in their body
(08:46):
is that their body and theirbrain are not necessarily
working well together to helpthem to calm themselves.
Everybody experiences anxiety,but for some people, depending
on what the trigger is, it'sdifficult for them to
self-regulate, and so they moveinto this kind of panic, if you
will.
And while everyone experiencesstress, anxiety disorders
(09:11):
involve persistent anddisproportionate levels of
anxiety that can significantlyimpact the way that they move
throughout their lives, the waythat they are able to work or
have relationships, take care ofthemselves.
Some people's disorders arecrippling and disabling, and so
(09:32):
that's preeminently importantwhen you're dealing with someone
whose life has been sodisruptive.
They must seek professionalhelp.
Speaker 1 (09:44):
Okay, so I have so many questions, but the next
question I want to know is soyou mentioned about triggers a
lot in our last part.
How do we first know whattriggers our anxiety?
Speaker 2 (09:58):
I think, maybe sitting in a quiet place, when
you're not, when you haven'tbeen triggered, to think about
what are some of the things thatare happening when I feel, so
you can say when I feel restless, I'm in this situation.
(10:19):
Or when I feel afraid, these aremy thoughts, when I feel that I
want to pull away and just hide, these are my thoughts, these
are my feelings.
And as you are able to walkthrough those things, then when
does this happen?
Does this happen in the morning?
(10:40):
Does it happen in the evening?
Does this happen in an academicsetting?
When does this happen?
Does this happen in a worksetting?
Does it happen when I'm givenan assignment and I don't have
any confidence that I can do it,or I don't have what I need to
accomplish it?
And so you're asking yourselfthese questions to identify the
(11:01):
trigger, and the trigger may notbe immediately or readily known
to you.
It may take not only thatwriting exercise, if you will,
and that thought exercise, butsitting with someone who could
help to walk you through thatpath and ask you questions to
help you to realize what ishappening when you're
(11:23):
experiencing certain things.
Speaker 1 (11:26):
Okay, so why do people develop anxiety?
Because I remember.
Here's my own personalexperience.
I remember I have neverexperienced anxiety before,
never, ever in my entire life.
Depression, yes, but notanxiety per se.
But I remember just I can'tremember which period of time,
(11:48):
but it was quite recent, likelast year or something that I
suddenly felt anxious likewithout any reason.
So why do we?
Like all of a sudden developanxiety or panic attack.
Speaker 2 (12:01):
I think there are certain neurochemical imbalances
as well, so it may not benecessarily connected to a lack
or an inability to cope withstress, because there are
certain things that we mightexperience that, again, are not
readily available to us and so,not being fully aware of your
(12:26):
situation, I would walk youthrough those same questions
that we talked about earlier.
Is it a time of year For somepeople?
I had a patient who was veryirritable around a certain time
every year and it would last fora few months, and she became
(12:49):
very frustrated in coming in tosee me and she said I can't
figure it out, and it led her toconsume substances in order to
calm herself.
And that had gone so far thatnow she was consuming substances
not just once a day but severaltimes a day to feel calm.
(13:11):
And so, as we walked throughthat process, we discovered that
she had lost her mother in thewinter months and that her
mother but her mother becamesick and then she had died in
the winter three months afterthat.
So that three months periodsort of held for her in her body
(13:35):
a memory that it was respondingto.
Her body and her mind wasresponding to the memory of that
loss and even though she feltthat she had grieved that loss,
there are certain aspects of theloss, aspects of the loss that
she hadn't yet dealt with, andso Bessel Vander Koek has
(13:56):
written a book called the BodyKeep Score.
So, even though she believed shehad moved on, her body
remembered the stress and thetrauma of that loss and around
anniversary time it would comeup again in her subconscious.
But she was not really aware.
(14:17):
Cognitively, she was not awareof what was going on.
So once she was able to pointto her trigger, which was the
loss of her mother, then wedeveloped a plan to honor her
mother.
We talked about her mother andwhat her mother meant to her.
We talked about good memories,we talked about memories that
(14:40):
were not so good for her, sothat she could have a full
picture, to be able to hold andsit even in the discomfort of
that and learn how to cope withthat discomfort, so that it
didn't overwhelm her and thatshe was in control of even those
moments.
Because everybody not onlyfeels anxiety, everybody
(15:01):
experiences suffering to somedegree or another, and our goal
in therapy is not to help peoplenever feel anxiety or never
feel suffering, but how to copewith anxiety and how to suffer
well.
Speaker 1 (15:17):
So how can we differentiate between normal
stress, because stress is normalin our day-to-day life, work
relationship, right?
How do we differentiate betweennormal stress and a more
serious anxiety disorder?
Speaker 2 (15:32):
Right.
So remember, we talked aboutanxiety as a natural response to
stress, and so when we see thatwe are experiencing stress, but
it causes us discomfort that wecannot cope with well, then we
have to do things about it.
Our first line of defense isdevelop different coping
(15:55):
mechanisms, and so if cookingevery day stresses me out, then
I need to find another way tocope with cooking every day, and
so for me, as a busyprofessional, what helps me is
to understand that I don't haveto be a chef in the kitchen
cooking a five course meal inorder to satisfy the needs of my
(16:19):
family, and so I had tosimplify things.
Or I don't have to come homeand cook a meal.
I can cook several days in arow and have that already done.
Or I can make things that weuse as a base where people can
come in and put things together,and they don't necessarily need
(16:39):
my help.
And so now I'm not stressingwhen I'm at work because I
didn't take the chicken out ofthe freezer before I left for
the day.
That's a simplified way oflooking at it.
But if I'm in a relationship andthe relationship has soured and
I want to continue therelationship but I feel like
(17:01):
I've done everything I could,and so every time I walk into
the house and I see this person,I am triggered by the fact that
I believe I'm in a place that'suntenable for me.
It's not making me happy, I'mnot adding to anything because
of this stressful, anxietyproducing situation, and I want
(17:25):
to run.
And so here again, we'll walkthrough the value of this
relationship.
What do you really want out ofthe relationship?
Do you want to leave, or areyou just frustrated because you
don't have enough answers to beable to speak to the situation
that you're in?
Are you frustrated becauseevery time you come in, you feel
(17:49):
helpless?
Are you frustrated because yourfeeling is you're not getting
what you need?
Are you out of the relationshipfrom the other person and have
you talked through that?
What are some of the thingsthat you have done?
And so it may not be that youhave to consider changes that
(18:11):
are life-altering, but it mayjust be that you have set
expectations and now that thoseexpectations are not met, you're
dissatisfied and you feel thatin the core of your being and
you just don't like that, and sothat affects the rhythm of life
, not only internally as itrelates to you, but also in the
(18:33):
relationship as a whole, and theother person is feeling that
too.
How do we know that?
If you just think about it,have you ever held a baby close
to you?
And the quiet baby that someoneputs in your arms now becomes
restless and irritable and kindof moving about.
They're uncomfortable, right.
And we say all the time thatthe baby senses that you're not
(18:57):
comfortable holding this babyright and they say everything's
going to be OK.
She trusts you, just hold her,love her, help her to know that
you're secure.
And she's secure as you holdher right.
Because that child senseswhat's happening with us.
(19:17):
Even though they're an infant,they know that something isn't
right.
That's anxiety that that childis feeling.
They're sensing your anxietybecause as human beings we are
linked together just that way,and so a way to really cope with
those situations is not to saythe situation must be fixed and
(19:40):
repaired in this moment, at thistime, because that's not
reasonable.
Okay, so you want to set areasonable expectation partner
with the person that you'restruggling with, and that may be
as simple as putting the kidsto bed early and setting aside a
time for just a communionbetween the two of you.
(20:01):
It may not last, but for 20minutes, but setting even what
we call fair fighting rules,that there's no put downs, that
we're going to lift one anotherup, that we're going to focus on
one area that we want todiscover.
You know, have new discovery inwhether it's how we communicate
with the other person, sharingwith the other person you know
(20:26):
what makes you anxious andgetting buy-in from that other
person.
Now, sometimes you know youneed to have someone to help you
facilitate these questions.
We have at Warriors, pursepreparing and rich marriage and
relationship counseling, becausesometimes you know those
situations are, you know,untenable and not safe to do by
(20:48):
yourself because it just getsout of sorts, if you will.
But I think that if we takethat example, realizing that
there are some things that wecan do and you have a coach that
could help coach you throughthat, I think that those
relationships can be restored,along with the anxiety decreased
(21:11):
, because now we have arealistic expectation of what
we're looking at.
You know, sometimes you may bein a relationship with someone
who has a chronic ailment.
Your expectation was that youwould live happily ever after
and none of these things wouldtouch you.
But if you're a caregiver,you're constantly under stress
(21:31):
and nobody really talks aboutthe life from the caregiver's
aspect and the anxiety and thefrustration and sometimes the
anger and irritability thatcomes with that job.
And sometimes you need somebodyto help walk you through what
you can anticipate but also howto take care of yourself.
(21:51):
You need family, and if youdon't have family you have to do
what I call manufacturingfamily.
That means that if you've got afriend that is closer than a
brother, that friend is family.
You know, if you've got peoplefrom your church or your
community that will be presentfor you, pull them in because
(22:12):
that can help you to share theload so that you're not feeling
that kind of stress.
And, you know, get someeducation about what is
happening.
So a lot of times anxiety isbecause we just don't have
enough information about what'shappening, and so our mind is
cast in the future and we thinkabout the worst possible
(22:33):
outcomes.
And it doesn't have to be thatway.
That requires training.
You know, once you'veexperienced a stress or stressor
, your your, it imprints on yourbrain and it can determine how
you will respond to the nextstressor, and so you need an
intervention.
So when you identify what thewhat, the triggers are for it.
(22:55):
Then you walk through theoptions that you have.
How will I think about this?
How will I behave?
How will I take care of myself?
Are there other places that Ican go to separate myself just
for a moment so that I can beable to think differently about
the situation and come back withfresh eyes?
All of those things, I think,can help when people are
(23:16):
experiencing anxiety On thepanic side.
Sometimes anxiety and panicdisorders require not just
coaching, but long-term therapyor a combination of both.
And sometimes it also requiresthat you take medication, and
some people don't like the ideaof medication prescription
(23:37):
medication and I get that.
And so we work with people alsoto do more natural things, some
of the coping skills we haven'ttalked about meditation,
mindfulness, exercise.
I have people that I work withwho are deficient in certain
(24:00):
vitamins and just in addingthose, in exercising, getting
into the sun, eating well wehave health coaches as well
Doing those kinds of things.
They have been able to see adifference in their daily lives,
especially around the abilityto cope with anxiety, if you
(24:23):
will.
Speaker 1 (24:25):
Yeah, so I know you published a book because we
haven't yet talked about thecoping mechanism, the healthier
coping mechanism.
So your book is all about thefive-minute skills to master
your anxiety and panic attacks.
And I'm telling you guys, thisis a book.
If you're struggling orsuffering with anxiety and
(24:46):
you're not ready to maybe workwith Marianne, but you can buy
her book and learn about theskills to cope with anxiety and
panic attack in a healthier way.
I would say so go get the bookand if you have any questions
you can ask her directly.
But so, marianne, when do weknow?
So people can go and buy thebook, they can read about it,
(25:07):
they can learn more aboutanxiety, the knowledge, educate
themselves.
But when is the time to getprofessional help?
Speaker 2 (25:17):
That's a great question, I think, if you're at
the point where it'ssignificantly interfering with
your daily function.
For some people it may be theywake up in the morning and they
turn the alarm clock off overand over and over again.
They pull the covers back overtheir head and they say to
(25:39):
themselves I just can't do ittoday because of the anxiety.
It could not just be thatthey're ready to say this is
anxiety because, again, as youmentioned earlier, some people
don't know the differencebetween anxiety and anything
else.
It may be that what you know,that you're in a state of
(26:01):
emotion that you can't cope withand it's challenging you now
physically, mentally,emotionally and physically.
I think it's time to get somehelp.
I think if it leads to againphysical symptoms and it lasts
for a while, I think you need toseek professional help.
Speaker 1 (26:22):
Right, yeah, that's so true.
Earlier also mentioned aboutdecaying.
So for yourself as a counselor,as a coach, how are you, while
you're helping someone, others,navigate their anxiety, panic
attack, how do you handle theemotion at all?
I came with hearing about yourclients, drugers and challenges,
(26:43):
and the question is, how do youtake it off your own mental
health while supporting othersin their mental health journey?
Speaker 2 (26:50):
I think that's an excellent question.
In the field, we say everycounselor needs a counselor.
When you're practicing andstudying to become a counselor,
one of the things that you haveto do is you have to receive
counseling from a counselor sothat you know what it's like to
(27:13):
sit on the other side, but alsoso that you understand what it's
like to put your things, putyour burdens down, your thoughts
and share with someone elseyour struggles, just to have
someone listen to you or maybeeven help you problem solve.
That's the first thing is thatyou need someone to talk to.
(27:36):
As a professional, I have thosebecause I have a great support
system.
The second thing is awarenessand mindfulness.
As I am aware that I'm facingdifficulty and, in some
instances, things that I haveabsolutely no ability to change.
Then I have to think about whocan support me in a place where
(28:03):
it's just going to be hard.
I have to learn to live withincertain boundaries.
I have good support systemthere as well.
Exercise, eating well, livingwell, spirituality I'm a person
of faith as well.
Reading music all of thosethings helped me to cope.
(28:25):
I love massages.
I love going to get my nailsdone, my mani-pedis I love doing
all of those things that'sscheduled in to my life as if it
were a medicine, because indeedit is.
It's part of the coping that Ineed in order to keep the wheels
(28:46):
oiled, if you will, to keep memoving down the road, so that as
I move through the difficultiesthat I can feel a sense of how
do I put this, feel a sense ofsafety and security in what I'm
doing.
(29:06):
Not that everything is 100percent the way that I would
like for them to be, but it isreasonable and I can set
reasonable expectations formyself without placing burdens
on other people, which again canbe frustrating for people when
you feel like something shouldbe some way and it really isn't.
(29:27):
The big book of AlcoholicsAnonymous, on page 417, says and
acceptance is the key to all myproblems.
Today, a lot of anxiety reallystarts from a place of I can't
tolerate this.
I won't tolerate this.
Things shouldn't be this way.
The reality is when you can saythings are the way that they
(29:50):
are and I need to learn how toeither live with it or learn
what I need to change it becauseit is within my power to do,
then things will be immenselybetter, I believe, and then you
can learn again to cope with thethings that you can change and
change them, and then to sufferwell when there are things that
(30:13):
you cannot change.
Speaker 1 (30:15):
Wow, that is powerful .
Yeah, because I think, for themost part, the reason why we
have anxiety is because we aretrying to change the things that
happened in the past that couldnever be changed.
So we are trying to changeother people that we also have
no control of.
So that's why I believe that'spart of the reason why we all
(30:35):
feel anxious from time to time,and what we have, truly what we
have control, is this moment,right here, right now.
So it's a pleasant moment.
That's where mindfulness comesin.
That's why meditation is sohelpful.
So thank you so much for comingto our show today and meet our
listeners, despite the situationover there.
Thank you so much for beinghere and being present with all
(30:56):
of us today.
Now, tell my listeners wherethey can learn more about you,
where should they go to get abook, and if they want to work
with you, where should they go.
Speaker 2 (31:05):
So the book is Five Minute Skills to Master Anxiety
and Panic Attacks and you canfind that book on Amazon and we
are doing pre-sale on ourwebsite, which is
warriorspursecom.
If you want to get in contactwith me, you can give in contact
with me.
My email is connect1adwwarriorspursecom or mhfaadw
(31:34):
warriorspursecom.
It has been a pleasure to talkwith you today, Joy.
I have certainly enjoyed mytime on your podcast.
Thank you again.
Speaker 1 (31:46):
Yeah, thank you so much for taking your time out to
share with us so generously,and you have been very kind with
your time today.
So listen, guys, I hope youlearned a lot from this episode.
I hope you find this episodeextremely helpful so we can all
nurture a positive mentalwellbeing.
Like I said in the verybeginning, go, follow Dr Maria,
go to her website, get a book,thank her for coming to our show
(32:09):
today, reach out to her if youare interested in working with
her.
I'll put all the links,including her links and the
emails and the website and thebooks, in the show notes below.
So make sure you go and checkit out and also remember to like
and subscribe so you never missanother episode coming to you
every Wednesday, and follow uson Instagram, if you haven't
already, so we can connect withyou as well, and I will always
(32:31):
leave you the same way as Ileave with every other episode.
Show up, the world needs youand you need you.
Thanks for listening and I wishyou all a joyful and amazing
day ahead.
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If you've ever wanted to know about champagne, satanism, the Stonewall Uprising, chaos theory, LSD, El Nino, true crime and Rosa Parks, then look no further. Josh and Chuck have you covered.