NFL Week 17 Recap: Commanders Fall to Cowboys 30-23 | Booth Review Podcast | Washington Commanders | NFL - Command Center Podcast

Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:00):
Coming up on the Booth Review, we'll look at some
of the young guns who starred in the Cowboys games.

Speaker 2 (00:04):
And now Cliff and Josh Johnson made some magic versus Dallas, and.

Speaker 3 (00:08):
I'm gonna take a look at the defense.

Speaker 4 (00:10):
And you know, I got to look at Bobby Wagner's
he's five tackles short of joining Rare Air in a
two thousand tackle club with yours truly and ray Lewis.

Speaker 1 (00:18):
And we'll make some history here on the Booth Review.
Welcome into the latest edition of the Booth Review Podcast.
I Brad Whisteyed with London Fletcher and Logan Paulson were
brought to you by Microsoft Surface Co Pilot plus BC
and Logan and I are in the Big Bear AI
Command Center studio. Happy belated Merry Christmas to both of you.

Speaker 5 (00:38):
Thanks man, appreciate it. Yeah, I saw you on Christmas.

Speaker 1 (00:40):
So that's right.

Speaker 5 (00:41):
We did.

Speaker 2 (00:41):
We did like a whole bunch of Christmas. You give
us a Christmas gift the week before, right, and then
on Christmas Day, so.

Speaker 1 (00:46):
A little bit of a Honika gift, that's right. What'd
you do over the weekend? We had a we had
a weekend off. What do you think about that.

Speaker 2 (00:53):
For me, obviously watched a lot of football, but I
watched Rocky with my son for the first time. We
like this, Yeah, I think that's my favorite sports movie
of all time.

Speaker 1 (01:00):
In the TikTok generation, can they sit through something like that.

Speaker 5 (01:03):
My son is eleven and he loved it.

Speaker 2 (01:06):
I thought it was gonna be able too slow, because
you know, it's like it's a little bit of a
character study. So I was a little unsure, but yeah,
he he really liked it. Fletch, have you seen Rocky?
You a big Rocky guy?

Speaker 3 (01:16):
Oh?

Speaker 4 (01:16):
Yeah, yeah, I'm saying Rocky a number of numerous times. Man,
who who has the same Rocky? If you're over I
would say over forty years old. That's a that's a
great Those are great trilogies or no, actually serious, because
I don't even know what Rocky they're up to now.

Speaker 5 (01:32):
So I think they So I went with my son.

Speaker 2 (01:34):
He asked if there's six Rockies and there's three Creeds,
So there's a lot of movies to get through if
you want to.

Speaker 1 (01:40):
All right, it's not a preview of Philadelphia, by the ways.
A review of the Cowboys game. Shockingly, the one, the
one big surprise of the day was considering everybody on
Earth was on the Netflix broadcast, we were not. That
was somewhat of a surprise that we weren't part of that.
Did you see how many people were on that broadcast
that day?

Speaker 5 (01:59):
No, I missed it.

Speaker 2 (01:59):
I didn't go over there, but someone was telling me, like,
Austin Eckler was on there. Clinton Portis did something for
him in the middle of the game, Like so, yeah, apparently,
you know, they just thought we were too too valuable
to be on that broadcast.

Speaker 1 (02:10):
You should have been on it. What's up?

Speaker 3 (02:13):
You know what I mean?

Speaker 4 (02:14):
I don't I didn't see who did it? Who was
on the Netflix Flicks broadcast. The only reason I saw
the Clinton Porters clip because they talked about him being
on there during the cross Key Marrit seventy two yard
touchdown run, And then I knew Eckler was a part
of the pregame show on from the from the Desk.

(02:35):
So I don't know how they would have been able
to fit us in. I mean, I'm sure they could
have figured something out, but I don't know. I guess
we're not big time enough yet yet. Yeah, they had
they had Jerry Jones on there. Did they really had
Jerry Jones on there?

Speaker 3 (02:50):
He was on set.

Speaker 5 (02:51):
It's a pretty big time though, pretty big time.

Speaker 1 (02:53):
Yeah, all right, let's get into the game a little bit.
It feels like eight years ago, but let's get into
the game a little bit, and I want to focus.
Let's start with some of the younger players. Obviously, the
season hasn't gone the way we had hoped it would.
There's been a clamoring for some of the younger players
to get out there and play a little bit more
than they have by virtue of some injuries, specifically for

(03:13):
Johnny Newton's case in Ben Sinett's case, that's gotten them
a lot more opportunities here as things have kind of
come down the stretch. So let me start with those two.
And let's just start with Johnny Newton, who I don't
even think, inarguably London like had his best game as
a commander. So what did you see on his three
sack performance?

Speaker 5 (03:30):
Yeah?

Speaker 4 (03:31):
No, and not just the three sacks, he also was
able to generate a bunch of hiss He had nine tackles.
You saw a lot of the second that first him
beating the blocking of the Dallas Cowboys. I thought the
coverage was really good to allow him to get to
some wins as Royal, and I mean, that's what we've

(03:51):
been waiting to see from from Johnny Newton, see him
have this type of performance. And you know, when you
when he was drafted out of Illinois, one of the
things that he was known for was his ability to
get out of the quarterback and for a lot of people,
they like, hey man, when are we gonna see something
from him? But he came out, he had he had
two foot surgeries before he even took his first nap

(04:13):
in the National Football League, so it takes a while,
and you know, for him, I was happy to see
him have that type of effort.

Speaker 3 (04:19):
He had nine tackles.

Speaker 4 (04:21):
I think what five quarterback hits the three sacks, and
you really felt his impact in that football game.

Speaker 5 (04:27):
Yeah, I totally agree.

Speaker 2 (04:28):
I mean I think there's a little bit of like
you know, I've talked to people like, oh, this is it,
He's arrived. He's like the next Aaron Donald or whatever.
I don't think it's quite that level. I think there's
a lot of stuff he can still work on.

Speaker 5 (04:38):
Fletch. I don't know if would agree with me or now.

Speaker 4 (04:40):
Yeah, especially as taken on the double teams. And I'll
get into that at once you finish YOURTA logan.

Speaker 2 (04:46):
Yeah, And so I think like when you look at
his sacks, like a lot of them, he's kind of
like clean up pressure in the right spot. A lot
of it is a lot of his productions generated or
based on his his hustling work ethic.

Speaker 5 (04:56):
Which is great to see.

Speaker 2 (04:57):
But I do think like, even though it's not like
maybe the cleanest nine tackles, cleanest three sacks you've ever seen,
it's like it's still a really positive thing for him
to be getting that kind of production this late in
the year, because then he can say, oh, man, like
it's building confidence, it's putting him the right state of mind.
So I think it's a really great performance for him.
But I just I've had so many people come up
and be like, yo, man, he's he's the next great
interior pass rusher. It's not that yet, but I do

(05:19):
think you say, hey, man, this is a really good
thing to see from a young football player.

Speaker 3 (05:22):
Yeah.

Speaker 4 (05:22):
And also the confidence that I'm sure that gave him
having that type of performance. A lot of times, man,
I don't know if and it's not just in football,
it's in life. If you are confident in what you're doing,
you're going to excel at it or you're going to
really you know, give yourself an opportunity to excel. And
for him, I'm sure he's sitting on cloud nine because

(05:45):
of that, that type of performance. So Kenny carry it over.
I guess the Philadelphia Eagles in a final regular season game,
final game of our season. Hey, these are the things
I can take it too that game against Philadelphia. These
are the things that I need to improve with Palm.
As far as with with with Johnny his frame, he continued,

(06:05):
he needs to continue to add size and he'll He's
still a young player, so.

Speaker 3 (06:09):
He'll continue to add size.

Speaker 4 (06:10):
And people talk about the taking on the double teams
and and the you know from a run gaps run
fit standpoint, he's gonna I mean, he's just not the
biggest guy. So as he continues to gain more size.
I thought he gave he gained some size this offseason.
He'll gain more size this next offseason, continue to get stronger.

Speaker 3 (06:30):
And he'll play the run a lot better and also just.

Speaker 4 (06:33):
Continue to hone in his techniques and when it comes
to taking on those double team blocks, and you know,
that's a that's a skill that that you have to develop,
especially for these younger guys. You know, if you're used
to being a three technique having a lot of one
on one blocks, now you got to deal with these
double team blocks. So he'll continue to improve. But I was, uh,
I was pleased with his production in that game against

(06:55):
the Cowboys.

Speaker 2 (06:56):
Yeah, And I also think it's important to just kind
of make a note of this too. Like, I know, he's,
like his PFF grades not gonna be great versus the run,
and neither is Javon kin Laws either. But I do
think one of the things that I've noticed and maybe
you like, but I think people look at it so
like they're not playing well against the run. But what
I have noticed is they've been much more disciplined about
sitting in gaps and not vacating versus double teams. And

(07:17):
I think you've seen Bobby Wagner or Frankie Louver, Jordan
McGee playing better, and so like, I think, yes, he
does need to get better. There's a technical element of like, hey,
I need to get to a knee split, this thing,
all those things you're talking about. But I also think
they've just been He's been much more disciplined in how
he's handled that, and I think it's helped the whole
defense at a little bit of like maybe like affecting
negatively affecting personal production.

Speaker 5 (07:37):
I just wanted to make a note of that before
moving on.

Speaker 1 (07:40):
You see a role for him moving forward where he's
not just a full time interior defensive lineman, but someone
they can be shifted a little bit to the outside.
Because they've been hinting at that possibility with him. They
did it with Deron pain previously in the past, and
because of his past rushing skills, I think there might
be an inkling of that's a possibility for him.

Speaker 2 (08:00):
Yeah, I mean I think with Johnny, like you know,
with Deron, it makes a lot of sense to me
because he's long. He's six', four he's got long, arms
he's really. Explosive With, Johnny i'm not sure his length
matches up well in terms of how you, know tackles
handle perimeter. Rushers SO i was always, like you, know
they know that the staff here knows way more football
THAN i, do and they understand the player way better
THAN i. Do but just in terms of like what's

(08:20):
on paper What i've, seen he always feels like an interior. Player,
now like there might be some matchup dependent things where
you can put him out and, say, hey this is
a good matchup for.

Speaker 5 (08:28):
You let's go win this.

Speaker 2 (08:29):
Thing BUT i always think guys that transition well from
the inside of the outside tend to be Like Chris
jones is a good.

Speaker 5 (08:35):
Example Aaron.

Speaker 2 (08:36):
Donald HE'S i, know he's not a big, guy but
he's got really long, arms so he can contend with
some of these offensive linemen and the length that they
bring a little bit better on the perimeter with the tackle.
Position So i'm always surprised when they bring that. Up but,
again if they if they've seen, him if they see
him in, meetings they understand what he's, doing then maybe
that's a position that he can tell.

Speaker 4 (08:54):
Me on The Ricky barber, sack was he was a defensive.
An he's lined up as a five technique on That
Ricky barbara sacking And dallas was in A i know
they had two tight. Ends i'm not sure if that
was a three tight ends, set but it's definitely twelve.
Personnel can't remember if it was thirteen, personnel but he
was on the edge on that and that may be

(09:14):
something where they look, at, hey this is a run.
Down you know the likelihood of this being a rundown
personnel standpoint personnel.

Speaker 3 (09:22):
Grouping we can put.

Speaker 4 (09:23):
Him on the, edge but to locus point him being
a true edge, RUSHER i don't see that being the. Case,
now what you would like to see is the maturation
in the trust of him being in there on third
downs and rushing the passer because he doesn't play on
third downs in true pass passing. Situations he's he's getting

(09:44):
he got those sacks first and second downs, situations and
if memory served me, correctly that wasn't they. Weren't, hey
these are obvious third down passing situations that he's out
there as a as a three technique rushing. Him and
that's WHY i thought he would actually be best suited
for as A i when there's obvious Pass russian situations

(10:06):
all third, down let him work at the edge of
a guard and see if he can create havoc that.

Speaker 1 (10:12):
Way does that a surprise you that he's not in
on third?

Speaker 2 (10:16):
DOWNS i mean a little. BIT i THINK i think
it's more of a defensive philosophy thing. Here and WHAT
i mean by that is like they tend to go
lighter across the.

Speaker 5 (10:24):
Front so they'll.

Speaker 2 (10:24):
Move you, Know jacobs in and he'll play like quote
unquote three technique with pain playing the shade or whatever
they're gonna, do, right and they bring. It they really
bring in three defensive, ends sometimes four defensive, ends and
then they kind of bump guys on the. INTERIOR i
think they really just want to increase the total team.

Speaker 4 (10:41):
Speed But i'm talking about even when they had two
tackles two ends in the.

Speaker 2 (10:45):
Game, sure, YEAH i GUESS i bring that Up fletch
to kind of, say, like you, know like a certain
percentage of their third, downs like they are just off
the table because of the packages they're bringing. In so
To fletcher's, point, like, yes you'd like to see him
in there on third down a little bit more. Potentially but,
again LIKE i always defer to the coaches in those
moments because they see the guys that are winning one

(11:05):
on ones in, practice they see the guys that have
the natural pass rushing you, know relationships with each. Other,
oh like you, know they have these natural rushes where
someone's getting high and they might have a better. Chemistry
and SO i do think with young, players especially like
sometimes it's better to start them off with something, small
let them own that small, element and then as they,
grow you can increase the, workload increase their, opportunities especially

(11:26):
in high leverage moments like on third.

Speaker 1 (11:28):
Down all, right let's stay on. Defense Mike saymer's STILL
i think it's safe to say he's had an up
and down, year and in this particular case in this,
game there were some up and down. Moments that's difficult
offense they're facing this, week six tackles for of. Them
solo had another pass. Defense he's been really their best
playmaker at getting the ball throughout the course of the.
Season that's SOMETHING i know they want to across the,

(11:49):
board want to improve heading into twenty twenty. Six but
he's been. That what have you seen from him kind
of late season so?

Speaker 2 (11:54):
Far, YEAH i Mean i've been actually really impressed with
him in coverage on the. PERIMETER i think like they've
obviously been more of his own coverage, team AND i
think you see his zone instincts coming to the, forefront
like when he's kind of looking through the receiver to the,
quarterback like he's very very. DANGEROUS i think in this game,
specifically there was some stuff that popped up in terms
of his, tackling which is a little bit frustrating to
me BECAUSE i always think of him as being a
very sure sound, tackler guy that's really committed to doing.

(12:17):
That but in terms of a guy that's playing the
football at a high level and knows coverage concepts at
a high, level like right, NOW i mean even When
tray most of, HEALTHY i think he probably does it
the best of anybody on the. Team and so are
there things that he needs to work?

Speaker 5 (12:30):
ON i think.

Speaker 2 (12:30):
Absolutely AND i think the other thing that you'd have
to ask yourself with him on the, perimeter And i'd
probably Ask fletch this, is you, know like they at
the beginning of the, season they want to be kind
of this man, coverage, blitzing aggressive, team and they've shifted
because guys have nicked, up they haven't worked out the
pastors is, there the coverage guys aren't. There Can mikey
do some of that heavy man to man coverage stuff

(12:50):
on the. Perimeter that's WHERE i probably am going to
question that a little bit more in terms of who
this defense wants to, be but in terms of like
him in. COVERAGE i don't have a lot of questions
about him from an instincts from a ball tracking.

Speaker 3 (13:02):
Standpoint, yeah now he's from a playing.

Speaker 4 (13:08):
OUTSIDE i don't think he has a problem playing outside
with his man and man with his own whether his
quarter is, coverage which is basically man and man for
the for the outside. Corner my kid excels at being
all playing off and you mentioned, that being able to
see the, receiver see the, quarterback and even even when
it's true man and, man he excels better at being
off man as opposed to press.

Speaker 3 (13:30):
Man that's just HIS i would call it his.

Speaker 4 (13:32):
SUPERPOWER i know we throw that word around a, lot
but his ability to play off man and, man it's
where he's he's really really good. At in terms of
off season this year or this off season coming, up
are they going to try to move him back? INSIDE
i think during that off season is when you really
want him to get those those reps against, high high quality.

(13:55):
Receivers you want to see him get, it get those
reps against The. TERRY i don't how Much terry was
around during the during the offseason last. Year you, know
some of the whether who what the receiving corps looks
like during this this off season that's gonna a too
and just him going against extremely extremely good receivers that

(14:16):
have all shapes and, sizes, quickness speed, ability just really
working that and working those matches where you. Can that's
where you truly work on your. Craft, HEY i want
to press this receiver in this. SITUATION i want to
play off in this. SCENARIO i want to you, know
bumping in, bail just all those different scenarios that you're
truly truly working your, craft getting used to working and

(14:37):
talking to the linebackers and and things like. That that's
where when When, MIKEY i think eventually he seems like
he would be the prototypical nickel because of his, toughness his,
quickness is his ability to to blitz and all those different.

Speaker 3 (14:53):
Things AND.

Speaker 4 (14:55):
I know he's really good on the house, side but
it's just everything just screams.

Speaker 3 (14:59):
NICK i just think she needs more seasoning in that. Nickel,
YEAH i do.

Speaker 5 (15:03):
THINK i.

Speaker 2 (15:04):
AGREE i think the skill set and people have asked
me like should they move him outside full? Time AND i, don't,
again like he's good out, there but if you can
get a dominant nickel in TODAY'S, nfl like that's a game, changer,
man that's like a difference making.

Speaker 5 (15:16):
PIECE i.

Speaker 2 (15:16):
Think you look At, seattle one of the reasons the
defense is so good is they have a dominant nickel
and Nick Amon. Warre you look At, philadelphia one of
the reasons that defense is so good is because they
have A cooper De. Gene and WHEN i look At
mikey's skill, Set i'm, like, man he should be excellent at.
This right and, again like some of this is like
we talked about it via text message this, Weekend, Fletch,
like you, know sometimes it's unclear of like you, know
what they're exactly they're asking the nickel to do in

(15:38):
certain situations and things like. That it's and SO i
kind of, wonder like maybe another year in the system
with a better, direction better more clear coaching in terms
of how they're supposed to handle run fits and stuffs
Help mike Helps mikey with some of that. Stuff BUT
i agree With, fletch, MAN i THINK i want to
see him play. Inside it's just like what's best for
the player is ultimately.

Speaker 5 (15:58):
WHERE i come down on.

Speaker 2 (15:59):
That Right, again even though all of those things that
just said will leave me to think that he's gonna
be a great nickel. Player like if it doesn't work,
out like do you just, Say, bumpet let's drop to
another nickel or Move Kwanda nickel full time and say
you'll play outside with Tree amos this next. YEAR i don't,
know but those those are things LIKE i feel that
same kind.

Speaker 5 (16:16):
Of, yeah that's a.

Speaker 4 (16:19):
Passion you Mentioned Cooper dejane and and his his the
way he excels With. PHILADELPHIA i think the schemes are
kind of a lot, different totally, different very Different. Philly
philly plays a lot of cover six where they're you
know those those those. Slots cooper's a lot of times

(16:41):
re route number two's and you know he has great.
Vision and then when they actually to play man, man
he's a lot of times he's playing from off.

Speaker 3 (16:49):
Coverage he knows his. Leverage there's not any gray.

Speaker 4 (16:52):
Areas so the scheme and the front also helps Ye,
Philadelphia like you you got you got dudes that get
out of the quarterback In. Philadelphia so let's see what
he would look like in the slot with a fearsome
pass rush and his his, intelligence his his, marksman his.

(17:13):
ATHLETICISM i just think he could be a, dominant dominant nickel,
corner and they probably.

Speaker 3 (17:20):
Still feel that same way as.

Speaker 4 (17:21):
Well it's just, hey let's get let's let's continue to
seize it him and just to coach him.

Speaker 2 (17:27):
Up, Yeah but so OBVIOUSLY i Think mikey's doing a
good job on the outside and obviously want to see
him play more nickel maybe next. Year someone asked, me
and you did a great job on the broadcast of
explaining this the long, touchdown the eighty seven yard touchdown
or whatever it, was was it eighty seven whatever it,
was long, Touchdown, Yeah tampa. Two everyone's, like, Oh mikey

(17:49):
was in bad position on. THAT i wanted to bring
that up before we moved, on just to kind of
let you break it down because It's tampa. Two to,
me that's Not mikey's responsibility, There.

Speaker 3 (17:58):
So it's not mike is an.

Speaker 4 (17:59):
Over mikey's playing two deep safety in that inverted to
they call it tricky. To kwan is the middle, runner
middle hole, player and he.

Speaker 3 (18:12):
Lines up About.

Speaker 4 (18:13):
Mikey quan lined up about maybe fifteen almost fifteen yards,
deep and he's the middle run through, guy and for
some reason he just he stood flat foot and then
by the time he, realized, HEY i gotta run. Deep
you're not Catching turping running down the middle of the.
Field so the way works, ideal the quote unquote ideal.

Speaker 3 (18:36):
Way you want to play cover.

Speaker 4 (18:37):
Two so you're gonna have these two safeties safety, bodies
whoever they are in this particular, Situation mikey was a,
safety Was Will harris the other? Safety who the other safety?
Was and then so they're two deep. Safeties kuwan is
supposed to run the middle of the, field and when

(18:59):
you what you want to, do you want to have
That Kwan martin body a middle, runner forcing that quarterback
to put air on that. Football and that's going to
allow the two safeties to overlap either intercept or big.
Collisions and with a guy Like, turpin you want to
be high on. Him you want to discourage to. Throw
you want to be so high on him that WHEN

(19:21):
i say, hi like two three yards deeper than. Him
you don't Want dak to even feel comfortable that he
can throw that football down the.

Speaker 3 (19:28):
Field you want to, say have him look and say,
NOPE i got to come to my.

Speaker 4 (19:32):
Checkdown because if it's you're in a foot race with,
him a four to two guy where they say even.

Speaker 3 (19:38):
Leaving he's even he's gonna leave.

Speaker 4 (19:40):
You so Just Kwan kwan had A i don't, know
a brain fire for lack of a better word than mental.
Error and now that pay me BECAUSE i tell you
this all the. Time Kwan martin is a freaking good football. Player,
Man kwan is a freaking good football. Player you go
back and you watch the two games prior to THAT
u he played some really really good football for, us

(20:02):
and for whatever, reason he had a brain.

Speaker 3 (20:04):
Fark, man it, Happens trust it. Happens he's just like
suit and it just.

Speaker 4 (20:09):
Happened happened at inopportunite, time and The Dallas cowboys exploded
it for eighty six. Yards so it's Not mikey's fault
because of his, responsibility he's trying to overlap that and
he's providing overlap. Help so to ask all those folks
questions and try to blame that on On, mikey that's

(20:32):
that's not the.

Speaker 3 (20:33):
Case if the blame has to be places, on it's
On kwand.

Speaker 4 (20:38):
And i'm not calling, Him i'm just that's that's just
what his responsibility.

Speaker 1 (20:42):
Was all, Right let's get to the. OFFENSE a couple
of the young players that really stood out. There let
me start With Ben, sennate who had three catches twenty nine.
Yards they targeted him a little bit more than they
had over the previous few. Weeks there were some opportunities
that were missed with him as. Well so with zach,
Ertsdown senate is getting much many more. Opportunities, now what
have you seen over the last couple of.

Speaker 2 (21:03):
Weeks, YEAH i THINK i see a guy just getting
way more. CONFIDENT i think you see his confidence growing
in the run, Game like it wasn't the, touchdown but
it was like the in the low red where they're
running outside. Zone he's working a combination With John bates
and they're really patient with each, other and his eyes are,
good and his hat placements, good And bill's able to
cut off and that's just not something that he was
doing a ton his rookie season or even earlier this.

(21:24):
Season SO i think the more playing time the worries
been on the, field you see a, confident physical football.
Player and then, again like these catches that he, had
they're not like you, know crazy down the field, targets
but you know it's in two minute. Situations he's running
a lot of stick like they're In tampa, two they're vacating.
Zones he's getting, looks AND i just think THAT i,
remember you, KNOW i was never the most dynamic, receiver

(21:45):
but there were games Where i'd be in a two
minute situation and get a lot of touches and it
just breeds. Confidence you kind of get a feel for, like,
OH i can't do this, move OR i got to
split these two guys here to kind of maximize my.
Touch and so to, me like that's. Great the touches
he's getting the Run stuf's, Great BUT i like the
stuff he's doing when he's not getting the. Ball Like
fletch you pointing this out on the, broadcast it was.
Great he's running a seam and he does a great

(22:07):
job of pushing for with the guy opens his, hips
cuts across his face and once he has a better
relationship With Josh, Johnson Marcus, mariota you, know jayde And,
daniels like he's going to get that ball and that's
going to be an explosive play for this. Offense and
so to start seeing him layer those plays in when
he's not getting the, football that's really exciting for. Me and,
again like it's. Different it's a different type of open

(22:28):
it's a different type of, separation it's a different type
of tool and skill set than it was with Zach.

Speaker 5 (22:33):
Ertz but it's cool to see.

Speaker 2 (22:34):
Him starting to develop his own methodology AND i think
it all, plays which is something that is really exciting and,
again hopefully he continues to. Grow you, know obviously in
this last game Against, Philly.

Speaker 3 (22:45):
Yeah, no it's the play we pointed.

Speaker 4 (22:48):
OUT i Thought josh looked right at, him and maybe
he didn't see him or trust it or feel comfortable because, he.

Speaker 3 (22:56):
Like you, said he why is?

Speaker 6 (22:57):
That?

Speaker 3 (22:58):
He why does that?

Speaker 4 (22:58):
Defender and he cuts across his face and he has
two or three about two or three yards of. Separation
If josh hits, him it's gonna be probably a good
thirty forty yard. Game josh didn't do. It he ended
up deciding to run and he picked up maybe seven
or eight. Yards but, yeah that was that was a
missed opportunity. There he end up or didn't end up

(23:19):
throwing it To Terryber he threw it To. Terry, yeah
SO i, mean and it was it was definitely a
missed opportunity there in terms of just building upon What
ben has done. Well so you think about his rookie,
year you, know totally different. Role didn't didn't didn't play
a whole out of. Offense this year he's been playing

(23:41):
more h back where he's the the move blocking tight.
End you, got you Got john is the blocking tight
end so to. Speak jack is the pass catching tight,
end and he's more of a glorified fullback for lack
of a better, word where you know is that they're,
Actually i'm gonna do a lot more in the blocking.
Blocking so he's really developed and spends some total amount

(24:03):
of his, time a ton of his time working on.

Speaker 3 (24:06):
That zach gets.

Speaker 4 (24:07):
Hurt, now, okay let me add to my pass, catching
my route running and all. That so going into this,
offseason he's going to continue to work and build on
that route running.

Speaker 3 (24:18):
Stuff hopefully he goes to tight end.

Speaker 4 (24:20):
YOU i don't know if he's he went this past,
year but he goes to tight end here you and
he learns the nuances of some of the route running
aspects and being able to.

Speaker 3 (24:30):
Create separation at the top of the. Roue so these
are just.

Speaker 4 (24:33):
Understanding he's a second year, player, man and he's going
to continue to add to his. Repertoire he's a too
athletic to not be really good in the pass catching.

Speaker 2 (24:42):
Game and again even like on THE i Think joshawn's
took a second his play with in the red. Zone
they're running like Like i's man coverage are running kind
of like a pick, slant and even just him understanding
like where his body needs to be to create the
natural rub for the slant.

Speaker 5 (24:55):
Runner like those reps are.

Speaker 2 (24:57):
Really, valuable, Right they're really really valuable because it kind
of teaches, you like conceptually what's. Happening SO i just
think that's it's been cool to see him kind of
step up and grow into this, opportunity especially after last,
year like a lot of this stuff, was like especially in,
line a lot of mental, mistakes a lot of, uncertainty
and all that stuff seems to kind of be erased and.
Eroding And David, rye the tight end, coach done a
great job for. Him so to see that continuing to.

Speaker 5 (25:19):
Improve and this.

Speaker 4 (25:20):
Is one, thing just touch on one little more point
on for uh for being as a tight. End you
know you got, hey this is the this is your,
responsibility it's your. Rock just, understanding, hey IF i stem
this IF i stem this, safety this, linebacker whoever has covered,
me IF i stem them just a little bit, inside

(25:40):
a little bit outside as opposed to just straight line
runs like he did on the one way he was
a three yard. Separation those will be things where he's
truly going to start to elevate because there was a
double double smash route in the corner route he ended
up throwing at the One debo got passing the ference
on it in the red.

Speaker 3 (26:00):
Zone If josh holds that and being stamped at.

Speaker 4 (26:04):
Safety just a little bit more in a, side if
he runs that corner route or flat, route he's gonna
get separation If josh holds it and goes to him
as a.

Speaker 2 (26:14):
Touchdown so, Yeah LIKE i do a lot of like
combine prep and like getting young, guys like college guys
getting ready for THE, nfl and that is that is
the biggest, thing biggest difference in college because the hashes are,
wider the space is. Different you don't have to be
as technical with that element of the. Game and so people, say,
well why does he know? That And i'll tell you,
This Like i've worked with probably close to sixty guys coming,

(26:38):
out and very few of them understand that element of route,
running that level of. Detail it takes time on, task
it takes better, defenders and so like it's cool to
see him starting to layer that. In but like Like fletch,
ed after a good, offseason a productive, offseason hopefully it
continues to. Improve and, again like if he's got a larger,
role like During OTA's mini camp training, camp like that's

(26:58):
where you're really going to see a lot of that.

Speaker 1 (26:59):
Growth with the chemistry That zach had With Jane daniels
and the Season zach was, having it felt like a
no brainer that he was going to be. Back and
because of the timing and severity of the, injury obviously
that is very much in question. Now so For, senate
it's an interesting end of the. Season AND i think
for the team to evaluate him, too do they need

(27:19):
to find somebody who is Zach ertz or is he
Zach ertz for them and play two different Roles and
that's an evaluation that they're gonna have to make once
the season is.

Speaker 2 (27:27):
OVER i think that's a fantastic. Point and, again like
it's SO i feel it feels so unfair to Compare
zach to, anybody, RIGHT i, mean he's like a borderline
probably A hall Of fame tight.

Speaker 1 (27:35):
End real top ten tight. End, yeah like the, time
he's a.

Speaker 2 (27:38):
Fantastic football, player and so like all the stuff that he,
does like it's really challenging to get young players to do,
it Like coulson. LEVEL i think everybody watched At San
francisco game the other. Night like he has a lot
of that stuff That zach did. Naturally but there's a
reason he's a top ten, pick, right is because he
showed some of that running. Nuance like the other guy
is Like Brock, bauers, Right like those guys are not

(27:59):
just floating around in the ether of college.

Speaker 1 (28:01):
Football they're freakishly athletic players that play at that.

Speaker 2 (28:03):
Position and the and they have the mental acumen to
kind of also accompany some of that, stuff Like Kyle.
Pitts like one of my big criticisms Of Kyle pitts
is that he doesn't have any kind of rot running
nuance or subtlety to. Him it took him five years
to develop, it, Right, So, like if you want a
guy Like Zach, ertz it's going to be a top
fifteen player at the position in the, Draft like in
the in the hole in the whole, draft so it's

(28:24):
going to be really hard to find those. Guys and,
again LIKE i, think if you want a third down
difference making tight, end it's a different skill set than
What ben has at the. Moment but that doesn't Mean
ben can't continue to grow and develop into something that's
going to be a difference making at the.

Speaker 5 (28:37):
Position all, right.

Speaker 1 (28:39):
Let's talk About Bill Crosskey, merritt one of the young
gun by the end of this and he had obviously
the huge run last, week one hundred and five yards.
Rushing it's got eight touchdowns now his yardage totals off
to Get jason to look it, up my WiFi is
not working in. THERE i want to see where it,
was but IT'S i think it's up, right eight hundred, now, yeah.

Speaker 3 (28:56):
And he's, Yeah and he's done this.

Speaker 1 (28:59):
Right he's done this largely in the middle of the
season as kind of a part time to little used
running back for a variety of. Reasons and you're going
to look at these numbers at the end of the
year and see a hell of a rookie. Season so
he came on the scene hit like. Gangbusters The eckler
injury kind of forced HIM i think onto the scene
a little quicker than anybody would have. Expected he had

(29:21):
the boom games early in the, Season Sea rod kind
of took over in the middle of the, year and
all of a, sudden because of injuries To Sea, rod
he's out there again and he's showing off this explosive.
Tendencies so what are you seeing as his rookie season
is kind of coming to an.

Speaker 2 (29:37):
End, WELL i Think i've seen a guy who's just
in the same way we've talked About Ben sinnett growing through.
Reps in, PRACTICE i think we've Seen Bill krosky MERRICKRO
i think he's gotten a lot more comfortable not hitting
the home, run like staying on. SCHEDULE i think he's
running with more, power better forward, lean AND i think
he's better in. Passpro and is he perfect in those, Areas,
No but has he improved a. Lot. Yeah AND i

(29:57):
think like having that foundation element to the running back,
position a guy that's going to get you too when
it's blocked for zero is something that's going to get
him on the field. More and then when he's on
the field, more you're going to get to see the
explosive Opportunities like you just talked about, that you, KNOW
I i you, KNOW i haven't seen a running back
do that here in a very long. Time so to
have that that kind of, dynamic you, know home run

(30:18):
ability with the consistent get on base approach that you
need to play running back at THE nfl, LEVEL i
think it's been great to see him grow in that
area over the last what is it eighteen?

Speaker 5 (30:26):
Weeks sixteen? Weeks?

Speaker 3 (30:27):
Yeah what what do you want to know? About?

Speaker 1 (30:30):
Uh what is what's his yardist? Totals he got.

Speaker 4 (30:34):
Seven seventy six as a, yeah on rushing And dan
doesn't have a lot for, receiving sixty eight receive and
he averages four point eight four point a per.

Speaker 1 (30:45):
Carry that's one of those. THINGS i think the receiving
part of, this we haven't seen that. Yet, yeah we
don't really know what he Could he could Be jamior
gibbsish in a passing. Game we're not really totally sure
yet because they haven't really tested a lot of. That
to your, point they. Hadn't they WERE i don't, think
overly confident in his, protection which kept him off the
field a little. Bit and then there was that period
of time we talked about this on this show for

(31:06):
a while where we're, like he's got to wait for
his pitch and he's gonna learn to do. This, london
we talked to him. Twice you, know he had two big,
games The giants game and The cowboys. Game we had him,
twice you, know after the game in the locker, room
and both times he brought, Up i'm taking notes of
WHAT i need to do to get better for next.
Year so when you heard him say that a couple of,
times what do you think he's talking?

Speaker 4 (31:27):
About first of, ALL i definitely think he's talking about
the past pro aspect of, it just getting better in
that area because that'll get him on the field in
those third down obvious passing. SITUATIONS i think catching the
ball out of the backfield to where to throw the

(31:48):
football to. Him he only has thirteen targets in those.
Situations and even just being able to run with more.
Power we've seen, That we've seen that. Lately he may
want to continue to work on the vision that burst
and all that the jump cut he has that that's
his natural, ability but just being able to consistently run
with power and running behind his, past having that pad

(32:12):
level low when he's coming through, there those are things
that he's gotten better, at and we've seen the fruits
of that late later in the. Season but those are
things that he'll work on doing the off. Season the
pass pro catching the ball out of the, backfield just
being able to run with more, power and Like logan,
said not everything is a home. Run sometimes it's just,

(32:32):
hey you just got to go in there and be your.
Blocker at times where he said this block for, zero
go get two or. Three just with running through somebody's.
Face you know that's H BUT i love to hear
not just a young player say, this but a player
in general say, hey there are so many things THAT
i need To there's some things THAT i need to work.

(32:54):
On he's, like, Yeah i'm happy with What i've, done
But i'm not. Satisfied and that's what you want from
not just a young, player you want that from all
your football.

Speaker 1 (33:02):
Players he can. Improvise he's got incredible, Vision he's got
more power THAN i think we probably initially thought he
would have when he, runs and so he's a hit to.
ME i think when he and hopefully becomes more of
a total package for, them he's a, dangerous dangerous.

Speaker 3 (33:20):
Player for, THAT i mean here's another THING i think
he would want to work.

Speaker 4 (33:23):
On there was a couple of times where he got
clipped up on those when he's gotten to the second,
level the ability to be able to break those tackles
on that when he's got to the not second, level
he's got to the third, level where he's got to
a safety level, too where, hey it goes from a
fifteen yard game or twenty yard game to the seventy yard.

(33:45):
Game he didn't have to break a tackle on that
seventy two yarder against the. Safety but just being able
to add that, element however it will, be and maybe you,
know being able to get his legs, up get those feet,
up or it's a subtle, move it may be a
in and out on a, guy whatever the case may,
be to be able to add more explosive runs to HIS,

(34:05):
uh to his. Repertoire, again he'll he'll he'll continue to
build HIS, uh build his.

Speaker 2 (34:10):
Repertoire and like to your point about it being a Hit,
rahim like he's a seventh round, pick like this IS i,
MEAN i DON'T i don't, care LIKE i don't care
what YOUR i. KNOW i don't think anybody expected him
to be this productive this year in his rookie, season, Right,
like so he's done a great job AND i.

Speaker 1 (34:24):
Think one game last, year, right and so for him to.

Speaker 2 (34:26):
Do this and come out and play the way he's,
PLAYED i think it's a TESTIMON i mean really to
the entire draftcat. Class Connor Lee, amos you, Know Jalen
lanez had a great year Obviously kanes and more on
special teams. Lately but to get your seventh round pick
and build to be playing this way like that's that's
not a bad group of explosive playmakers that have hitt
in different ways and at different times this year and
had different developmental. Arcs but, like, man it caninda say

(34:49):
those guys could be building blocks moving into twenty twenty
six for.

Speaker 5 (34:52):
Sure.

Speaker 3 (34:52):
Yeah and work on fumbling, protecting, yeah that's.

Speaker 5 (34:56):
Right.

Speaker 1 (34:56):
Protective, yeah he has.

Speaker 3 (34:57):
Three, Fumbles so just constant work on. That and.

Speaker 4 (35:01):
Because you, know you got to be able to, trust
to be trusted too ahead on that football and you
know that's that's one Thing i'm sure another area that
he'll and you don't have to worry for the off
season to work on that aspect of.

Speaker 3 (35:12):
It work on that. Now they continue to work on.

Speaker 1 (35:15):
That all, right let's get to a couple of the old.
Hats we went to all the young. GUNS i want
to start With. Debo that was WHAT i think they
envisioned when they brought him here a year. Ago this
these moments where he's energy for, them he's a big,
play he's run after the, catch he changes field position

(35:37):
in one. MOMENT i think we saw this In week.
One remember Early remember back in the, preseason he was
the only quote unquote starting receiver that was out there
at least throughout the course of the, summer got a
lot of opportunities or finding ways to get on the.
Ball they did this in this game as, well and
we SAW i think the debo that they envisioned when
they brought him here in the first.

Speaker 2 (35:57):
Place, yeah and they've been. TRYING i think there's a
couple of things that go into. That like they've tried
a little bit to get him involved in this way
earlier this. Year AND i want to Give cliff a shout, out.
MAN i, thought like the reverse the screen, specifically like
it wasn't like overly, technical but it was just enough
to kind of create some indecision in the. Defense there's
a little bit of motion ahead of. Time they kind

(36:17):
of do the ball fake the. Guy the, linebackers the
second level players on the screen specifically are kind of
running with that, motion running with that. Action connelly does
a great job getting to the. Perimeter like you just
put not Only debo in a good position to be,
successful but you made the block for beatas you made
the block For connolly really.

Speaker 5 (36:33):
Easily then on.

Speaker 2 (36:34):
The, reverse just the way that was executed, again there's
a little bit of eye candy pre, snap you kind
of lose who's actually getting the. Football the guys in
the perimeter are blocking, well and then Again Connory beiatish
to the second, level they are do a great. Job
so in terms of, DESIGN i think a lot of
credit goes To Cliff in terms of utilizing him because
early in the, season like there were TIMES i remember
watching The Green bay game where they're trying to throw
him a screen and it's like, obvious all the eyes are.

(36:55):
There you, know he has a lot of gravity to
him as a, player and rightfully, so SO i think
understanding how to use him has gotten, better and understanding
the execution of on those plays specifically has gotten. Better
and then the other THING i want to point OUT
i think he's, healthier. RIGHT i think there was that
period of time where he had that heel injury where
you could tell that he wasn't quite, right so to.

Speaker 1 (37:12):
Kind of something happened in The atlanta game where he
like stepped on something or.

Speaker 2 (37:15):
Well you, know so like you, Know i'm down there
on the. Sideline they got their their their warning track is.
Concrete so if you step on that going we know
when he scored that go like that go baal, touchdown
he stepped on. That i'm sure that's when he did.
It and again like he you've had foot, Injuries fletch like.
It i've had foot, injuries it Really And i'm not
an explosive, guy but like people who are explosive when

(37:35):
they have something going on with their, feet like it
just you're not. Right and SO i think you saw
a lot of that this year and again you, know
to see, that to see that final final vision come
together probably since The chargers, GAME i thought was pretty.

Speaker 3 (37:48):
Cool, yeah it affects as explosive, guys.

Speaker 5 (37:51):
Yeah super.

Speaker 6 (37:52):
Explosive yeah, yeah, no it's and also having a healthy
tear out there and The Tray burks who's made play
place as.

Speaker 4 (38:03):
Well so now there was there were times where he
was truly the defenses were all focused on, him, like,
hey we're all eyes are on, him all eyes On,
Debo like you, know we we know he's the only
guy that they trust In zack as. Well but you, Know,
zack you don't you don't Expect zach to kind of

(38:24):
beat you taking the top off the. Defense it's so
those two guys were the focus points of defenses and
he just, man he looked LIKE i don't know what
he got up to miles per hour on that on that.
SCREENPLAY i would love to see the numbers he was.
Rolling and then to finish not held, it you, know
five yards off his. Head and and again he brings

(38:45):
you mentioned the, energy the attitude that he brings to
a football team as. Well when you get you gotta,
hey they call Him debo for a. Reason, man you
got a guy who brings. Attitude not many corner safeties
are going to be able to fit physically tackle him
one on. One and there were times where like the
one game comes of mind against The Kansas City. Chiefs

(39:09):
it was a, game it was a pass he catches
and it's him one on one with a safety and
the safety is able to tackle. Him and that's when you,
say now he's not he's not, healthy because.

Speaker 3 (39:21):
A healthy debo tag that safety is in.

Speaker 4 (39:24):
Trouble he's gonna pick up the yards needed to get
the first down end up BEING i think a yard
shy of getting the first. Down, so as you, Mentioned,
logan he was not healthy throughout a good portion of this.
Season On saturday against The, cowboys he was and we saw.

Speaker 2 (39:42):
That AND i think that's the other thing that really
sticks out to me, too is like how violently and
again the attitude that. BRINGS i think that's a great, Point,
fletch because like it wasn't obviously the screen is this demonstrative,
finish but the reverse it takes three guys to bring
him down the dig that he catches like he, is
he is accelerating in the, contact and like so when
you have to like the mentality of the of the

(40:02):
defender to kind of deal with.

Speaker 1 (40:03):
That he's as good as any high level running back
once he gets to the second. Level that's been His
that's been the magic of him through the. Years LIKE
i have to look it up because it's in the
in the releases every, Week but like his yards after
catch is among top two or three in THE nfl
over the last five. Years, yeah that's. Him once he
gets into, space forget about.

Speaker 5 (40:21):
It, NO i think that's a great.

Speaker 2 (40:22):
Point, Again LIKE i think about him In, miami when
he catches that screen for a, touchdown he's hit at
the five yard line and breaks the tackle and falls
over a guy like you just don't see receivers doing.
That and SO i, think like the like the design
of the offense has gotten. Better and ALSO i think
that Having terry having trail and having guys that force
you to defend grass in a different way like is is.

(40:44):
Significant AND i know people want to like overlook, that
but it's a huge.

Speaker 5 (40:47):
Factor AND i think Seeing pritish room.

Speaker 3 (40:50):
Just to take, it take it a, step bring it,
on bring it.

Speaker 4 (40:53):
Home in terms of him And bram your point about
being a running back after he catch the. Ball WHEN
i WHEN i Met deebo And i've seen, him you,
KNOW i mean in the, offseason he wasn't he.

Speaker 3 (41:05):
Was i'm looking at him, like, damn what do you
tackle this? Guy?

Speaker 4 (41:10):
Like cause that's the first THING i think as as
a linebacker or just a defender in, general where AM
i going to tackle? HIM i looked at that when
it was a running, back and it's not just hey
with the bigger, guys like do you do you hit
him in the?

Speaker 3 (41:25):
Thigh do you try to hit him in the?

Speaker 4 (41:26):
Knees do you hit him up high like a guy
Like Brandon, jacobs a guy Like Jerome, Battis where do
you tackle this? Guy looking at a guy Like deebo
or even a guy Like krista McCaffrey Or Darren, sproz
you're kind of sizing him, up, Like, okay what's my
tackle plan against? Him and D q actually, mentioned actually
mentioned that when they Brought debo, in, like, hey we

(41:47):
had to have a tackling plan for.

Speaker 3 (41:49):
Him defenses have to have a tackling plan for.

Speaker 4 (41:53):
Him and when you're when you're out there one with
a guy like, this you better hope your plan. Works
sometimes it, does a lot of times it.

Speaker 1 (42:04):
Doesn't, yeah it didn't work this week for The. Cowboys
we saw this on Display Derrick henry as this, now
we saw this Against Green bay the other night where
when he gets, going forget about. It this is why
he's A hall Of fame running. Back All, Right i'll
get back to the other hold hat in. MINUTE i
want to spend a little bit more time On Bobby.
Wagner but since we're talking about the, offense let's stay
on that for a. Minute you, know this was shaking.
Up i'll tell you what me And logan were. Worried,

(42:26):
okay we were. Worried we were Worried christmas wasn't going
to go very. Well and the result didn't go very.
Well but we were worried because Here's Josh johnson make
it his first. Start there's a lot of people. Missing
tunsel isn't, Plague Chris rodriguez has an, illness you, know
the day of, like and we all know what the
defense has been doing this, year and we all know

(42:46):
What dallas's offense has been doing this, year and we're
all smelling At. Christmas we don't want to, remember, right
and they, Again, Cliff Josh johnson that grow but right,
RIGHT i forgot loud did was like all over. This
he's like screaming air it, out screaming like watch what happens?

(43:08):
Here you were you were actually on it that the
offense was gonna have a good.

Speaker 3 (43:11):
Day, YEAH i just WHEN i WHEN i looked At.

Speaker 4 (43:14):
DALLAS i, mean their offense is, dynamic but that defense
leads a lot to be. DESIRED i, mean especially when
it comes to defending the. Pass, Now bill had the
seventy two yard, run and we talked, About, Hey dallas
coming into that, game they WERE i think twenty is
stopping a. Run BUT i was looking at the. NUMBERS

(43:36):
i crossed the numbers when when they Had Quinn williams
on that defense in terms of how, much how significantly
better as a run defense they were with him on
the field, ESPECIALLY i think they were giving up seventy
nine yards a game a game With Quinn williams on the.
Field he didn't play The chargers game and, coincidentally The
chargers rushed for one fifty. Two but all those other, Games,

(43:57):
man there's a lot of games where teams aren't even
getting anywhere near one.

Speaker 3 (44:01):
Hundred yards against.

Speaker 4 (44:02):
Them But i'm looking At, okay we got a healthy
we got a Healthy, terry we got a healthy De.
Ball Trey burks is starting to emerge as a pass,
catcher And terry always had good games against The. Cowboys
that's Why i'm, like, hey let's bring them. Out let's
air the. Football that's staring around the yard and really

(44:23):
force these Forced cowboys to defend the, pass and you
know they able. To they had a thirty second rate
pass defense for a. Reason SO i just liked OUR
i like the matchups in the passing game against The.

Speaker 5 (44:33):
Cowboys, YEAH i think. SO i agree with you kind
of in.

Speaker 2 (44:37):
RETROSPECT i always thought that thirty second or leads at
the end of the game was more of a more
indicative of game flow because their offense is putting up
all these, points they're in these, shootouts teams are trying
to catch, Up they're going to see more.

Speaker 5 (44:48):
Passes, obviously that's kind of the way fast this. Year, yeah,
yeah that's kind of the WAY i interpreted.

Speaker 2 (44:52):
That, Obviously, fletches you, know A hall Of fame player
for a, reason or release spar smart dude for a.

Speaker 5 (44:57):
Reason BUT i know a bad.

Speaker 3 (44:58):
Defense But i've seen what, yes, Right but.

Speaker 5 (45:01):
WHAT i will say is so to this point about bad.

Speaker 2 (45:04):
Defense so like when you the one thing THAT i
did notice when you watch mon tape is that they
play traditional cover. Three so Like Vic fangio when he
plays cover, three it's gonna almost feel, like, man.

Speaker 5 (45:14):
It's like this weird highbred they flood.

Speaker 2 (45:16):
Zones same thing with like this is a little different defensive,
philosophy Like, minnesota like they match concepts really really, well And,
dallas for whatever, reason they play the more traditional where it's, like,
Hey i'm dropping to spots and, recently if you play
that style of, defense like you can throw the ball
in those. Teams so people are, like, well why can

(45:37):
We why we're able to throw the comeback To, terry
the out to trail In, burks the comeback To terry,
again it's because they're in cover three and they're change
up as man and man, Coverage SO i like a
comeback in both of those looks because there's no underneath
hook player on either side of that. Right so to,
me it was like, yes To fletch his, point like
it's a bad defense because stylistically they do things that

(45:57):
are a little bit easier for quarterbacks to see and
read And, josh you, know, he's to his, credit, man
he's played a lot of football and so he can identify.

Speaker 5 (46:04):
Cover three versus.

Speaker 4 (46:06):
Logan you mentioned that comeback and your your vanished, Point
polygi WAS i know it's different because you're on the.
Field it's different than the vanish, point we see up
in the booth that comeback that he threw the tear the,
deep deep up kind of out. Comeback that was a
heck of a. Throw it's, uh you gotta it's that

(46:26):
was a throw WHAT i would say between two defenders
around two defenders because they actually had it defended pretty,
well and For josh to make that throw to trust,
IT i, mean it wasn't a whole lot of space
on that sidelines and he that was a that was
a dark that was a dime. Throw so let's give.

(46:46):
It let's get some credit on.

Speaker 2 (46:48):
That but and so SO i Think i'm not trying
to take anyth away From, Josh like this is definitely
an easier out Than. Philly, right he did make some,
Throws like one of my favorite throws of the game
is like when he Checks terry on like the big
like the bench out or the corner route and it's
not there and he Hits debo over the middle of
the field like working through its. Progression like he did
a lot of good, stuff, RIGHT i just think it's,

(47:10):
again it's a little bit, Easier like to your, point
like they're the thirty second ranked defense for a reason
Versus dallas as opposed To, philly and he still played,
well like he made good, decisions didn't didn't have a
lot of negative, plays didn't put the ball in harms
way And cliff you could Tell like the other thing
we talk about every pregame show is like when you're
a little bit nicked up offensively and you're not at your, Best,
like how do you find your five. Explosives, oh let's

(47:32):
get a screen To terry or a screen To debo
for an explosive to.

Speaker 5 (47:34):
Play let's get a, reverse let's get a dig to
you know What i'm.

Speaker 2 (47:37):
Saying they were able to find some of these opportunities
just through, good well executed not trick, plays but like
plays that led to explosive plays that are low leverage
throws for the.

Speaker 4 (47:47):
Quarterback, yeah WHAT i loved about When bram AND i
we get an opportunity And logan you interview a lot
of players too after the, games when we're able to
kind of ask a question and the answer that we,
get we totally wasn't anticipating the. Response so whether it
Was Trey burke and some of the times we've had

(48:08):
him opportunities to ask ask him, Questions, bill But bram
AND i when we Interviewed josh and we asked him
how was He bram asked a question like how he
was able to be like play so well and so
have so much confidence in that. Game And, brad you
remember he SAID dq had a conversation with.

Speaker 3 (48:27):
Him. Mom was It thursday night or he said one.

Speaker 4 (48:31):
Of those days D q came to him and told, him, hey,
man you got, this go home and get some.

Speaker 3 (48:37):
Rest, man just trust in your your. Experience AND dq
told him to.

Speaker 4 (48:41):
Trust his experience and it was like that just gave
him so much confidence going into the.

Speaker 3 (48:46):
Game and, MAN i was, like, yeah this is.

Speaker 5 (48:49):
Awesome there's something really.

Speaker 2 (48:51):
Special like that's an underrated thing, too like people, like,
oh like how does how does how does coaching impact?
Players AND i think that's something that as a undrafted
free agent who was always a fringe roster, guy when
a coach came up to said and, like, man you're
going to have an excellent game today BECAUSE, xyz like
it just breathes this life into you because you're, like, hey,
man like that guy has, played he's watched a lot of, Ball,

(49:12):
DAN i, mean you, know like and for him to
come out and say that. Like it just it's a
cool moment for a coach to know exactly what a
player needs to hear and then for him to go
out and play the way he.

Speaker 5 (49:22):
Did that's really.

Speaker 1 (49:23):
COOL i heard a quote From Philip rivers yesterday after they,
lost and he's now zero and three in his. Return
but it's been a joy, ride it sounds, like and
it really matters to. Him and someone asked him, about you,
know this is meaningless, games and he, said WHEN i
was a kid and we played in the backyard and we,
lost AND i went home, crying that was a meaningless.
Game but it really. Wasn't none of this is. Meaningless

(49:45):
it never. Is AND i was thinking about Just, johnson
And i'm, like here's a guy's thirty nine years. Old
he's been in the league since two thousand and. Eight
he probably never thought he was going to play in
a game this year at, all, right Because Jayden daniels
And Marcus mariota are on the roster ad of, him
and here they are at four to eleven and he
asked to. Play and you'd, think like human nature would
be Like i'll take that back up, paycheck you, know

(50:07):
like we don't need to do, this but that wasn't
his attitude about it. Whatsoever it really truly mattered to.
Him so if you're ever, wondering, like do these guys
have this feeling for this game regardless of the, circumstances
these are two prime, examples and one of them's in
this building with the way that he, played the way
that he, prepared and how it mattered to. Him and
he was. Londy he was upset that they, Lost like

(50:28):
he felt like they left a few things on the.
Field he was upset that they.

Speaker 4 (50:31):
Lost, yeah, absolutely THERE'S i don't there's no such thing
as a meanless, game AND i don't care if it's,
preseason regular, season. Postseason they might not all. Count so
in the preseason they don't, count but they matter right.
Now four and, eleven four and, twelve whatever the case may,
be four and, thirteen it doesn't, count so to, speak,

(50:53):
accounts but it doesn't count because, hey we're not going
to make the.

Speaker 3 (50:57):
Playoffs but it.

Speaker 4 (50:58):
Matters it matters for every body associated with the organization
because how you performing, LOSSES i think are just as
important to how you perform in. Wins we've had some
ugly losses in this during this season where you got
you're losing what for in a row by twenty plus.
Points and then we've had the loss against The broncos

(51:21):
where you where you go for the go for the
two point, conversion lost the ball, game but totally different
outlook and how we look looked in that game lost
against The cowboys look totally different than that. Loss so
and they all they all. Matter they might not, count
but those players fight for to extend their. Careers young

(51:42):
players showing that, Hey i'm a, guy you can build a,
Pump i'm a state, guy guy that you want to
continue to have her on this football team when this
thing turns. Around and also you got guys being free
agents who are auditioning for for thirty two other thirty
one other. Teams and you, know anytime you step on

(52:03):
that football team on that football, field you have to
autograph your work and you have to take pride in.

Speaker 3 (52:09):
Ownership.

Speaker 2 (52:10):
Yeah and like For Josh johnson, specifically like he hasn't
played for as long as he's played because he's like
casual about, football, yeah and like he probably wants to
play next. Year and you know a good way to
do that is to go out and ball and like
SO i thought you did a great job of doing,
that and like you talked about autographing your, Work, Fletch
like you, KNOW i was always like the fringe roster,
guy and these games at the end of the season were,
like they're your resume for next. Year and so Like

(52:31):
Josh johnson knows that better than, anybody anybody in the.
World Josh johnson knows that. Thing so like he's gonna
go out there and give it everything he's, got which
is which is.

Speaker 4 (52:39):
Cool i'm gonna share a quick story with me my final,
career my final season In. Washington we get to think
his week week sixteen or week fifteen. Sixteen we only
played sixteen games back. Then we're playing The Dallas cowboys
AND i come, home my, wife my late, wife and my.

Speaker 3 (53:00):
Kids we.

Speaker 4 (53:00):
Go we get home from a friend's house On Christmas
day AND i started watching. Film this might be eight
o'clock at, night and she comes to me and she's, Like,
hey how.

Speaker 3 (53:10):
Many of your teammates do you think are at? Home?

Speaker 4 (53:13):
No, no she asked, me have you ever gone into
a game feeling? Unprepared AND i was. Perplexed i'm, like
why would you ask? Me Like i'm appalled by, that
like you see me every, Day, like, No i've never felt.

Speaker 3 (53:28):
Unprepared AND i, said why would you ask me?

Speaker 4 (53:30):
That she, said how many of your teammates do you
think are at home On christmas night studying.

Speaker 3 (53:38):
Football right? NOW i was, LIKE i don't know AND
i don't.

Speaker 4 (53:41):
Care, again so what She the reason she asked me
that question is, well she wanted to spend some time with.

Speaker 3 (53:48):
Me she wanted us, like, hey let's watch a, movie
whatever the case may.

Speaker 4 (53:51):
Be in the part to add context to, this we're
getting ready to play The. Cowboys this is my fourteenth
time In, washington getting ready to face The Dallas. COWBOYS
i knew they offense like the back of my. HAND
i knew how to cover with AND i Knew, ROMAR
i knew their running. BACKS i could have gone into
that game not having, prepared like watch a little bit more.

(54:13):
Film that night and the day BEFORE i had announced my,
retirement Like i'm. Retiring we got this last home game
against The, cowboys then we got a final game against
The New York. Giants but there was nothing inside of
me that was going to allow me not to prepare
the same WAY i had always prepared going into these.

Speaker 3 (54:32):
Games it just WASN'T i just couldn't do.

Speaker 4 (54:34):
It so a guy, like to your point About Josh
johnson and the, pros we don't know any other way
to do. It every game, matters every rep, matters regardless
of the, situation and we weren't very good at twenty thirteen.

Speaker 1 (54:49):
Either that sass you Know i've gotten you has probably gotten.
Too i've gotten a million texts from people you know
about this year and they're, like, boy but you can't
wait to get through this one and just stuff like.
That And i'm, like, WELL i wish they were, winning
but it doesn't change the. Preparation And i'm like this,
Week i'm, like we're calling A Washington dallas game On Christmas. Day,

(55:10):
yeah there is nothing not special about, that nothing not
important about. That it is an incredible opportunity and privileged
to do. It and to think that anybody would like downplay.
That AND i can only imagine with you, guys what
you're doing physically to get ready to do that on the.
Field there is no other. Way there.

Speaker 2 (55:29):
Isn't, well the thing that you always used to get
me is, like IF i didn't prepare as best AS
i could, physically mentally, Emotionally LIKE i felt LIKE i
was like doing not only Like fletcher, disservice but doing
like my family of, Disservice like like that's like my
dad and his friends watched the game on the, weekend
right and LIKE i want him to be like that's
my that's my boy right. There you know What i'm,
Saying like there's a there's a, special special opportunity. There and,

(55:53):
again the other thing THAT i was always worried about
it is like if you, don't if you if there
was even a moment.

Speaker 5 (55:57):
Of, doubt, fletch LIKE i always gonna get. Hurt you.

Speaker 2 (55:59):
KNOW i needed to make SURE i was there mentally
every single. Opportunity and it's funny like WHEN i was
a little bit, off that's WHEN i did get. Hurt
and you're, like, man it's because of that thing THAT
i didn't take care of, before so.

Speaker 4 (56:12):
Or not even get, hurt just not be able to
perform at your best and your optimal because you're you
don't want to be thinking on a football.

Speaker 3 (56:20):
Field you want to just be.

Speaker 4 (56:21):
Reacting, HEY i know my responsibility as know my job
and let me just go out react and execute whatever
the case may. Be you don't want to be thinking
about coverage as you're running your route because now you're, like,
NO i know this.

Speaker 3 (56:33):
COVERAGE i. Trusted let me go win and get make myself.

Speaker 1 (56:36):
Available all, right two kick tops before we. Go one
on the. Defense all, RIGHT i want to get your
thoughts on. This cowboys go eight of twenty on third,
down unbelievably six of six on fourth. Down almost uncanny
how they were, converting especially in the first, half but
it was on second. Down, jason our, producer put all
these down AND i remember some of them in. OTHERS
i was, like, wow that was on These they got

(56:57):
them behind the chains so many Times dallas got out of.
It Malik davis for sixteen yards on a second and eighteen,
Uh Javonte williams nine yard rush on the second and,
Ten Ceedee lamb eleven yard reception on a second and,
Nine dak scrambles for six on a second and. Ten
they got a fourteen yard reception to convert on the third.
Down lamb on a seven yard catch for on a
second and. Fifteen thirty eight goes back to him for

(57:19):
twenty four second and eight when Span ford had the
thirty one yard seam Route Hunter, Lipkey this was a
killer on a second and sixteen got fourteen yards on
what was a dump? Off it was a. Mistackle it
was Six, yeah that was that Was that was third and,
sixteen was?

Speaker 5 (57:33):
It?

Speaker 1 (57:33):
Yeah and then and then the long turbin play was
a long third down play as. Well that was a
free play by the way they would have they would
have got a, penalty but they got. That, Anyway what
do you make of that that they had a lot
of success on first down against them but just failed
to get them off the.

Speaker 2 (57:49):
Field, WELL i think like just going through these like
the second eighteen like to, me like The nickels in
a tough, Spot like we talked about that a little
bit pre, show, right The hunter The lipkey, thing like
we just got a rally and, tackle. Right so some
of it's just like each one kind of presents its own.
Issue The dax, scramble like can we contain the quarterback
a little bit?

Speaker 3 (58:06):
Better?

Speaker 2 (58:06):
Right like some of them like you got to take
your hat off and, say, man like they did a
great job on, those like The lamb eleven art yard,
reception like that's a great, route that's a great. Protection
like would you, say, oh we could get pressure with. Four,
yeah but that's AN nfl football. Team that's one of
the best receiving quarterback duos in THE. Nfl like they're
going to get, theirs, right it's the other ones that, Hurt,
right it's the turpin third and eleven where you don't

(58:28):
execute The tampa two. Correctly like so of, THESE i,
mean what is that one? Too just the ONES i listed,
off there's four right. There the you, say, man, like
that's four opportunities for us to have if we had
just been a little bit, Better like maybe the game shifts.
Drastically they're off the, field we get the offense more
bites at the, apple like the offense had forty one.
Plays there's an offensive elopment there in terms of converting
on third, down but, defensively like when you're in these

(58:50):
long down and, distances Like i'm not the expert on
it that, fletches but as an offensive, PLAYER i know
when we're in these, situations the math is against. Us
the analytics our, guest because you're not supposed to convert.
Those AND i look at these AND i, say if
some of these are just just it's not for lack of,
effort it's just a little bit of execution here and
there that leads to explosive opportunities that keep stallus on the.

Speaker 4 (59:12):
Field the frustrating thing is you list off a lot
of those Plays dallas didn't. Earn that's the frustrating part
WHEN i say they didn't earn a lot of these
those situation it's really the like you mentioned the third and.
Sixteen you know you make the, tackle they're probably gonna

(59:32):
be eight yards. Short that's fourth to. Eighth they're not
gonna go fourth and fourth and, eight they're gonna. Plant
we get the football. Back the run play the SECOND
i think it was the second and sixteen run where
he goes for fourteen, Second, yes. Sixteen that's a fit.
Issue we didn't fit that run. Correctly and again it's

(59:55):
everybody knowing what my fit.

Speaker 3 (59:58):
Is the call.

Speaker 4 (59:58):
Is the call is a really good call because you
got you got an eighth man in the box that
he's gonna rotate. Late but everybody has to fit it.
Correctly and, also as a defensive, player especially whether YOU'RE
d lineman or, whatever screens and draws on third and
really long, situations you got to, understand, hey this is
this IS i can't just run up the, field think

(01:00:21):
it pass for us all the time to either SOMETIMES
i gotta, think, oh let me make sure this is
not a draw BEFORE i go and rust this. Passer
so there was so many. Things situational. Awareness we got
to understand the situation is better. Too and the six of,
six you look at those six for six on fourth,
downs they were what fourth and, one fourth and TWO'S

(01:00:45):
i don't even know the longest. ONE i don't even
think they had a fourth and three that they went
for so and a lot of those were we had
him in the third and long that allowed them to
get to this are. Scenario but we had him in
a second and long that allowed them to get to
a third and, short and they might not have gotten
enough third, down but they end up being in a

(01:01:05):
fourth and got to a fourth to one.

Speaker 3 (01:01:07):
Situation so that's on. Us that is on us as a.

Speaker 4 (01:01:11):
Defense some of, them too many of them That Dallas
cowboys did not earn those first, downs and we got
to take ownership of.

Speaker 3 (01:01:21):
That they didn't own those earn those.

Speaker 5 (01:01:23):
Plays AND i think that's a frustrating.

Speaker 2 (01:01:26):
Thing like, again like doing this job by a, grade
try to grade every, play like just kind of plus
minus for the. Players So i've watched a lot of defensive,
film and the frustrating thing for me WHEN i watch a,
defense it's, like there's a lot of good stuff in.
There pbu's good, tackles good run, fits disruptive plays Like
johnny running down that running back on second and ten
to make it a, Third, like there's good stuff in, there,

(01:01:46):
Right it's That it's there are a handful of red plays,
though where it's like this is we had a mental,
mistake or we didn't fit the run, correctly or we
didn't tackle, well and over the course of a, game
like it's just those are the tipping points between giving
up third and giving up sixteen, Points like it's that
is the razor's. Edge you're walking every single game and
they're a good team and they're gonna get their, Credit

(01:02:07):
AND i think What fletch's talking about is, like, yeah
you understand that as a. Player it's the ones that
that you didn't execute the way you're supposed to that
really really. Hurt and when you look at the, sheet you're, like, man,
like they played, Well like you can't say they played
well enough to, win but they did enough good stuff
that they should have, won but they didn't do it
enough on these critical moments that led to these fourth and,
shorts these third and shorts that you just can't.

Speaker 3 (01:02:27):
Overcome, YEAH i.

Speaker 4 (01:02:29):
WAS i mean just amount of frustration that that has
to be ON dq and the defensive, coaches because when
you get you want a, team as you mentioned brown
behind the, Sticks we behind the? Sticks is what second
and seven or second and, Eight, yes, longer third and

(01:02:50):
probably third and six or longer we've. Had we had
those scenarios multiple times and they were able to overcome
those convert whether the third, down convert fourth, down and
that's why you get the big discrepancy of time of,
possession where what they had about eighteen minute discrepancy and
time of possession, yep is because of. THAT i, mean

(01:03:11):
look at What office was able to do in just
what forty one plays of.

Speaker 3 (01:03:14):
Offense.

Speaker 1 (01:03:15):
Yep just go look at conversion rates once you get
to second and, seven second and six to second and,
eight it's a massive difference between the two of. THEM
i actually think we may see a lot of this
is this plays the FORM i was asked like, recently
like what do you think the differences with The eagles
offense yesterday was absurd that they had seventeen. Yards i'm, like,
actually ALL i think it is is they don't have

(01:03:36):
a lot of success early downs running the, ball and
they've become everybody else because they're not in second and
five and second and four like they were over the
last three. Years AND i don't know what that is about,
them BECAUSE i see more first down runs Of theirs
get blown up THAN i can even. Imagine so there
must be some design or issue something going on there
because people are just running exactly Where saquon is. Going

(01:03:57):
but we may see this again if it plays the
form where The eagles are gonna have second and, ten
second and, nine second and ten and let's see if
they can get out of it.

Speaker 2 (01:04:05):
TOO i think that's a great, point AND i think
that's really good, analysis AND i hope people don't care about.
It but, like first down rushing efficiency is, huge right and, so.

Speaker 1 (01:04:13):
And especially for a team like, that where you have
maybe the best running back in THE, nfl one of
the best, lines it almost makes no sense that they
have no success running the.

Speaker 2 (01:04:21):
Ball and so in this, game it was cool to
See washington be a little bit better on first, down,
right but it's, like to your, point can you then
finish the? Sequence can you then, go, hey it's second and,
ten let's get them to third and. Eight let's get
off the field and get the ball back to our.
Defense and, then to, me that's going to be the
story hitting Into. PHILLY i don't care who plays is
can you get that level of execution and just play,

(01:04:41):
good sound defensive.

Speaker 1 (01:04:42):
Football you can't stop them if they're in second at,
four because they can do whatever they want on that,
play and if they don't complete it or don't get,
anything they can run the ball twice once with a
tush push and they move the chains like that's been their.
Magic that's not what's happening this. Year they've become everybody,
else all, right last thing real, quick because we all
hope this. Happens bobby wagnern five. Tackles if he gets
five tackles against The eagles This, sunday he's going to

(01:05:04):
join a club that only, You london And Ray lewis are,
in which are players that have surpassed two thousand tackles
in their. Career So i'm hoping we're going to see
that obviously On. Sunday but what are your just your
general thoughts of adding a third member to a very exclusive.

Speaker 3 (01:05:19):
Club, Man i'm so happy For.

Speaker 4 (01:05:22):
Bobby AS i mentioned you and you guys, KNOW i
have a great relationship With, bobby and this was even
before he joined The. Commanders this goes to dates back
all the way to twenty, nineteen and just the reverence
that he has for players who played the position prior
to him and who you, know just his respect for,
us and he's he's trained With, Ray he's reached out To,

(01:05:43):
ray he's reached out to, me and just for us
to be able to talk ball and talk training methods
and all those. Things so WHEN i see him on
the cusp of joining that, club that two thousand tackle,
club and that's a rare that's rare air up, there,
man it's you, know it's it's it's lonely up there
with me and. Right, so but it's just it's a
testament to him as a, professional him as his, longevity his.

(01:06:08):
Productivity bobby is an extremely extremely good. Tackler you, KNOW
i THINK i would Say bobby's a better tackler than,
Me like he just from uh just wrap, tackles LIKE
i missed more tackles to. HIM i just WAS i
was around the ball a lot, more but just him
as a, tackler he's.

Speaker 3 (01:06:28):
Outstanding just.

Speaker 4 (01:06:30):
Man just just looking forward to him being able to
to join that. Club hope he's able to do it
in the, uh you, know first, half first, quarter and
and and we able to get the, win because that
would make it even sweeter to be able to accomplish something.
Win so, that's, uh that's What i'm looking you, know my,

(01:06:50):
My I've i've always just marveled at At bobby and
what he's able to. Do So i'm looking forward to
to him joining that.

Speaker 3 (01:06:58):
Club.

Speaker 1 (01:06:58):
Yep that's something to watch. For and then obvious this,
weekend we don't know how The eagles are going to play.
This the two seed is actually on the line for,
them which is why the kickoff with our game and
The bears game is going to be four twenty. Five
the two seed ones is gonna, be two ones gonna
be the Three eagles have to, Win bears have to.
Lose so we're gonna see how they play. This do
they want to arrest some of their? Guys do they
want to go for that two?

Speaker 5 (01:07:19):
Seed not?

Speaker 1 (01:07:19):
Sure, see here's.

Speaker 4 (01:07:21):
Something That i've just Heard sirianni say the other, day
and this even before they played the, bells and he
mentioned the importance of getting a second getting that two.
Seed he, said it's important to get that two seed
because you, would, hey you're going to have the first
round game at, home but also you would get a

(01:07:43):
second home playoff, game so you, know.

Speaker 1 (01:07:47):
Plays and you're one loss from a one seed away
from THE Nfc championship being there, again.

Speaker 4 (01:07:54):
Yeah you, have so you have the wildcard round at
home as a two, seed but you would also have
a divisional round at home In philly if theyre able
to get to the number two. Seeds and then, obviously
depending on what happens with the number one, seed you
potentially could be hosting AN nfc championship. Game so you,
know now it depends on what happens With. Chicago because
Of chicago, wins they have to head to head Over.

(01:08:15):
Philly both. Teams i'm imagining That philly's gonna gonna play
their horses and how we play our horses, Too and
you know how the game was gonna be interesting anyway
because of how things ended in that game with the
two point. Conversion and we'll see you in two. Weeks
as Uh as was eloquently mentioned by by some players

(01:08:37):
and maybe some coaches of our. Team but you, know
so they're gonna be there's gonna be high tension in
that fall that football, game and the lots is gonna
be on the.

Speaker 1 (01:08:45):
Line will and we'll see you next week on our.
Finale for the twenty twenty five season Of The Booth,
Review See. Then Booth review was filmed at The Big
BEAR Ai Command Center. Studio Big BEAR ai offers mission
READY ai for a rapidly EVOLVING, warld proudly protecting The
Washington commanders and its. Fans

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