Get Your Commanders Tickets Here: https://bit.ly/3SpwKU3 LIVE SHOW!!! Friday | June 20th | 7:30 PM | The Muni Joe Jacoby should be in the Hall of Fame! The crew is joined by Bram Weinstein to make the case for Washington Legend Joe Jacoby and why he should have his yellow jacket yesterday. Then, Doug Williams gives Joe Jacoby his flowers as he tells stories on how the Hog was pivotal for Washington's victory in Super Bowl 22. Hosts: Logan Paulsen, Santana Moss, Fred Smoot Guests: Doug Williams, Bram Weinstein
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Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:00):
On today's episode of The Command Center Podcast, we have
a Hall of Fame edition. Bram Weinstein joins us for
Jo Jacobe and why he should be in the Hall
of Fame. Man, Man, we were excited to talk to
Brandy did a great job defending his case. And then, man,
nothing is more important to get teammates to come and
vouch for you. Yeah, and we got a great Jojacoby teammate.
That's Doug Williams. He comes by and gives his testament.
(00:21):
He as to why Joe should.
Speaker 2 (00:23):
Be in the Hall of Fame, and watch a surprise
him too.
Speaker 1 (00:25):
It all starts right now. Welcome into the Command Center Podcast.
I'm Logan Paulson here with Fred spoot, Santana Moss and
our very special guest, the voice of the Washington Commander
is Braan Winsta. Thanks for coming, Bram, How you doing,
Buddy good? Thanks for having me good, excellent having you here. Man.
We're gonna talk a little bit about you know, some
(00:45):
people who deserve to be in the Hall of Fame,
and Bram has been a fan maybe longer than anybody
I know on the beats, and so his INSIGHT's gonna
be really helpful when talking about this individual. But in
the meantime, we got some things we to talk about.
We got the live show coming up CC podcast. That's
this pod Friday, June twentieth at the Muni meal. We
got merch giveaways, and we have a surprise legend coming.
(01:06):
So if you like surprises yep, and you like merch
and you like us, please join us at the Muni
on June twentieth. Right, any thoughts on that phone, Hey, listen,
be there, b Square, be there, be Square. I think
that's excellent. And then we got our mega mail bag
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(01:27):
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want to make sure we get to everybody's questions, and
so that's the best way to do that, that hawk
outside at gmail dot com. Yes, all right, now, this
is every We've done this a couple weeks in a row. Now,
this is the most important thing of the announcements. It
(01:48):
is get your Commander's tickets. Now, oh you're us, but yeah,
do it through us. Right, you see that little QR
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we use that one because it helps us out. They say,
oh wow, people really watch this show. They will buy
tickets the show. It helps us, helps our budget, helps
us out. Make sure you do that. And then right
(02:10):
we've got RFK stadium news. We're all excited about that.
Brand's excited about that, right fram So if you want updates,
visit Commanders dot com Backslash New Stadium where you can
sign up to learn more and show your support. That's important.
The ownership wants to know that you guys want this,
We want this. We assume you guys want this, so
(02:31):
let's make sure.
Speaker 3 (02:32):
Take bring the guys home, bring the the f.
Speaker 1 (02:48):
So that's it. Live show, mail bag, tickets QR code.
That's really important. And if you want stadium updates, check
out Commanders dot Com Backslash New Stadium. Now, the reason
you're all here, I don't know if you're all here
for this. I don't if you even tease this on
the last show, but we're talking Hall of Fame, and
we're talking Hall of fame for someone who, at least
(03:09):
in my mind, doesn't get enough love, and that's jo Jocobin.
Speaker 4 (03:11):
Well, I have to say, first of all, officsive lineman
in generalal don't get enough love. And we're talking about
the past, all right, so now we're talking about it. Oh,
the officsive Lammy in a time where the new office
of Lamy don't get the love that they deserve.
Speaker 2 (03:24):
So yeah, we here to talk about it.
Speaker 1 (03:26):
And I just looked through kind of getting ready for
the show, like who makes the Hall of Fame as
an offensive lineman? Yeah, and it's literally like, if you're
the best dude of your generation, that's it. You're in
first pretty slim pickings after that, which is tough. And
I think like that's kind of where why this is
so hard for Joe.
Speaker 5 (03:42):
It feels like, so let me let me start this
conversation in a place that I think it should be,
which is and I think there's a number of players.
I think every organization could say this, but London Fletcher
should be in the Hall of Fame, Brian.
Speaker 6 (03:54):
Nodad should be in the Hall of Fame.
Speaker 5 (03:55):
You know, I don't think Gary Clark or Larry Brown
will ever get in because of the age, they should
be in the Hall of Fame too, But Jojacoby tops
the list. And I would start this conversation this way,
because I know you're going to say, make a case
for him. I would flip it and say, back to
the Hall of Fame voters, explain to me why he's
not that this really this isn't about because I could
(04:16):
write for days about what Jojacoby meant to the team,
what he was for this team, the accomplishments. You want stats,
I have them. You want iconic plays, I have them.
You want iconic moments part of iconic units, I have them.
You want one of the most incredible come from nowhere
stories you've ever heard of, I have it for you.
So I'd like to hear from the voters. Why is
he not in the Hall of Fame. Why do I
(04:38):
have to sit here and tell you how great he
was every single year when anybody who knows this sport
should know that. So he's at the top of the list,
And to me, it's someone that's been overlooked and never
should have been. He might be the greatest hog of
the greatest unit of offensive linemen ever.
Speaker 6 (04:54):
It's a travesty thing. It's not in the Hall of fame.
Speaker 3 (04:57):
I think it's a six a po thing. See Jojacob
is a an e Van. Nobody fans of Minivans sexy.
They would rather have a Ferrari.
Speaker 2 (05:04):
And we talked about Anthony Munios was in his class.
Speaker 1 (05:07):
Anthony Munos Zimmerman like, there's some guys that are kind
of defined their era.
Speaker 4 (05:13):
But and still don't have accomplishments that he has. See
that's the thing about it, And let's be honest. Russ
Griham was more of a talker when to get to that, Like,
Russ Griham is more of a talker than Jojacobe is.
Jojacoby is a quiet guy. That's similar to London. London
was not the salesman that Ray is, but he got
all the stat that Ray does.
Speaker 3 (05:33):
But my question with that is, because I'm gonna ask
you this, and that's why I asked you earlier off
off era, how old are you by you watching.
Speaker 7 (05:40):
This game from that from and that kid in the
games here and being with you.
Speaker 6 (05:45):
I'm the one who went to the art I was
actually filmed there to.
Speaker 2 (05:52):
College game.
Speaker 3 (05:53):
Yeah, so Ben that you was there, you watched and
probably whether it was with a grandfather, your dad, whoever
you went to the game with. When you had to
compare the two guys from a Russ Grimm, who who's
in the hof and you got Joja Kobe, who's another
guy who we feel that should be there? Compare those
two guys like who was the guy on it? Who
was the guy on that line?
Speaker 5 (06:14):
So the hardest part of comparing the one they both
belong there. Yeah, like this isn't a one was better?
Speaker 3 (06:22):
Say who was the guy that you heard about to
be who was the guy that interested?
Speaker 6 (06:27):
Interestingly, it's Joe and it's not Russ.
Speaker 5 (06:31):
Of the Super Bowl championships they went to the four
that they played, he's the only one of the original
Hogs that actually played in all of them and won
three Super Bowls. Not Russ Grim, not anybody else. So
he has the longevity of this career. He played every
position on the offensive line outside of center, but he
was best known. He was an undrafted rookie free agent
who ended up being a starting left tackle and went
(06:52):
to four straight Pro Bowls, two times All Pro four times.
In the early eighties, they were top four in rushing,
Top four in rushing. Yeah, six times over a nine
year period they were top seven or better.
Speaker 6 (07:04):
That's jo Jacoby. They had great.
Speaker 5 (07:06):
Running backs, they had a Hall of Famer in John Riggins,
they had Gerald Riggs, they had Ernest Beiner. Yeah, great
running backs that played here. But he's the constant actually
through the entire decade. They asked him to do so
many different things. And so this isn't an indictment of
Russ He belongs there to no doubt, but the player
who really defined the dominance of the Hags Jojacoby.
Speaker 2 (07:28):
So how did he get missed? I don't know.
Speaker 1 (07:30):
So I think when you look go back and look
at the All Decade Team, I think that's a pretty
good indication of like kind of how people perceive them
at the time. Yeah, Russ Grim is considered the second
best guard in the NFL at the time, and Jo Jacoby,
according to this list, which is the All Decade Team,
was considered the fourth best tackle of all time. So whatever,
and again he's playing with Anthony Munyo. Yeah right, And
(07:51):
so I think when you look at that and you say, like,
and this is where I go back to the media,
the his personality, because so much of that to me
is dictation. Buy the media and buy your personality. And
if you're not at the forefront of conversation, you're not
in front of a camera, I think people will forget
about you. It's kind of like, yeah, no, it's the
same thing that I think about this with Fletch, Like
Fletch played in small market teams. Yeah, for a long time, yes,
(08:12):
and then he came here and he finally got the
big he got his first Pro Bowl. Yeah. But like,
if you're a guy or a media voter or a
Hall of Fame voter that looks at all how many
Pro Bowls were they in, that's not fair to Fletch, Yeah,
and it's not far to Joe.
Speaker 3 (08:24):
I also find it hard to have the acolagues that
Joe have because it all balls down to what have
you done?
Speaker 2 (08:31):
You know what I mean?
Speaker 7 (08:32):
When it's all said, have done?
Speaker 6 (08:33):
What did you do?
Speaker 3 (08:34):
And if they go down the list and say, if
I'm gonna read everything from man, man from man, look
at the stats, look at what he accomplished. That's the
Hall of Fame are that's whatever you want to name it,
and he should get it from there, you know.
Speaker 1 (08:44):
You should.
Speaker 3 (08:44):
You shouldn't have to worry about how many times your
name was brought up.
Speaker 2 (08:47):
What market you was in.
Speaker 7 (08:48):
I'm sure your name brought up a lot because he
went to four Super Bowls.
Speaker 2 (08:50):
Well, it's interesting too, he's part of Well, he played
in four, they.
Speaker 5 (08:54):
Won one, three played in the four. He's the only
linement of the group that actually played in each of
the one of them. And he played at all these
different positions. If you want moments, and this is the
hard part for offensive lineman or defensive lineman, often there's
no moment breaking point to Well, if you watch what
might be the greatest play in Redskins history, which is
the John Riggins fourth and one run in the first
(09:15):
Super Bowl Championship. Guess who the lead blocker is on
that right, That's Jojacoby. Do you want an iconic play
the counter tray is Joe Jacoby. That he is the
one who is pulling. He is one of the kind
of forefront of the athletic tackles that you see. Now
we went and drafted Josh Connerly. Why because he's an
athletic tackle that can move. This has become a norm
(09:38):
in the NFL. Now, it wasn't then. Jojacoby kind of
redefined the position and the counter tray became the hallmark
play of the Washington offense that led to the rushing
game that was dominant through the course of a decade.
And what you'll see over and over if you watch
highlights is sixty six pulling and everybody getting out of
his way because he was a road grader.
Speaker 4 (09:59):
Can we agree maybe the NFA didn't like the intro
of those two players. When they talk about jo Ja
Kobe and London Fletcher, they both undrafted guys.
Speaker 1 (10:08):
Actually, so when you.
Speaker 4 (10:10):
Say, uh, when they guys was in the draft, we
didn't think they was draft worthy and now they turn
out to be Hall of Fame.
Speaker 1 (10:18):
Was that we get it too wrong.
Speaker 7 (10:19):
But I don't think that you're getting it wrong.
Speaker 3 (10:22):
They should lift those guys up and show we show
all the other guys that you can honestly be one
of these guys one day.
Speaker 7 (10:28):
You can be undrafted and be a great because sidered
the girl.
Speaker 5 (10:31):
Well, if you are either undrafted or a low draft
pick at a skill position, you show to the people
who you are. Tom Brady clearly is a first ballot
Hall of Famer, has a sixth round pick overlooked his
entire career. Yeah, for offensive linemen for defensive lineman, if
you're not an edge rusher and you get a bazillion SAT. Yeah,
it is hard to make that case. And it is,
I think hard to overcome that. What's amazing about Jake two.
(10:55):
You know, the Redskins drafted four offensive linemen in the
twelve round draft before.
Speaker 2 (10:59):
He was taking.
Speaker 5 (11:00):
It's an undrafted free agent. There were twenty eight tackles
that were taken in that draft ahead of him, and
he ended up starting like his second year and became
a dominant All Pro player. That's an amazing, amazing story
and it should be celebrated.
Speaker 1 (11:14):
Yeah, but I look at like the other people from
this era, from the eighties team, I just kind of
want to looked at for tackles. There's a guy named
Jimbo Covert. He played for the Bears, right, and so
to Fred's point, he was a first round pick. Yes,
he's on the cover of Sports Illustrated handed to him.
He won a Super Bowl with the Bears. He won
the Super Bowl twenty with the Bears eighty five, and
he got a recommendation from Bill Parcells basically saying he's
the best player that alt he played against him, So
(11:35):
he got in twenty twenty, and so I do. I
do think as much as we want to think of
this process as being totally unbiased, it is biased. It's biased.
It's bias fir people who people recognize it.
Speaker 4 (11:45):
No, think about these They love Tom now, they didn't
always love Tom because he was always put against Peyton
Manning Payton the sweet prints of quarterbacking. Do you not
think they would have really say, you some stock pay
Man in his stock and Tom Brady. Tom just kept
that chip on his shoulder because he was.
Speaker 2 (12:04):
In a golden boy.
Speaker 1 (12:05):
They said, you know what, I'm gonna play it out
to the end.
Speaker 2 (12:07):
All right, I'm gonna give it everything I gut. Let me.
Speaker 5 (12:10):
You want endorsements, I'll give you that for Joe two.
Randy White's in the Hall of Fame describe Jojacoby as
one of the greatest offensive linemen He's ever actually faced
Reggie White. Maybe the greatest defensive lineman to ever play
the game, maybe the greatest one to ever play the game,
said quote, it's a matter of time before he gets
into the Hall of Fame. And he is one of
the greatest players I've ever had to go up against.
(12:32):
Lawrence Taylor. Maybe the greatest, most disruptive defensive player in
the yeas Jojacobe was one of the toughest competitors he
ever went against. Think about this too. In the period
of time that he played, seven of the twelve Super
Bowls were won by NFC East teams. Yes, three by
the Redskins, but two by the Giants and two by
(12:52):
the Cowboys. So he was in the toughest, most dominant
division hit time. He has seventy six games against Hall
of Fame defenseive lignement. Yes, his credentials are absurd, and
that's why it isn't about naked a case for him.
It's about it explain to me why he's not in
the Hall.
Speaker 7 (13:09):
Yes, So how how does this those votes sway?
Speaker 3 (13:13):
Like, like I've always wondered how much of that leans
on the media and how much of the leans influence
it's between mehen we first got in the lead, they're
saying that the media pick picks a lot of those
guys for.
Speaker 2 (13:24):
Hall of Fame's Pro Bowl, all pro media.
Speaker 6 (13:27):
Politics, politics.
Speaker 4 (13:29):
It meets media meets coaches too, Like, oh, coaches, So I.
Speaker 7 (13:33):
Want to know what's the percentage, Like how much the coach.
Speaker 4 (13:36):
Like Parceales has a lot of power to sway. Like
if parts Sales sit you down and say, this player
right here was one of the most dominant players.
Speaker 2 (13:45):
I played against what's his name? That weighs a lot.
Speaker 3 (13:48):
So all those guys just did that for him, and
he's still not in there. Yeah, all those guys, from
Lawrence Taylor, from Reggie White. That means that the people
not listening. That's what I'm saying. Who is the person
that they're sitting there? You know, there's a lot to that.
Speaker 5 (14:03):
Like every team, as an advocate, the advocate needs to
advocate strongly. The players that have the credentials to do
so need to have some political gain within the other
voters to say it is time to put our guys in.
It's ridiculous London Fletcher is not. Once they put Devin
(14:26):
Hester into the Hall of Fame, that was the idea
that Brian Mitchell is not is a ridiculous, ridiculous oversight
by the group. And in Jo Jacobe's case, here's the
most iconic player on the most iconic offensive line, who
played longer than any of those other players did, and
somehow he's not in the Hall of Fame.
Speaker 6 (14:42):
That doesn't even make sense.
Speaker 1 (14:43):
The argument that I've heard from people is that, you know,
the the Five Hogs were kind of a sum of
the parts, Like what they were as five together was
better the individuals. Take that away from me. The thing
that I've heard. The thing that I've heard from people
is that like they wanted to pick a representative from
that group to represent this history.
Speaker 2 (15:02):
And risk Griham's dead represented.
Speaker 6 (15:05):
I believe you because should be in the Hall of Fame.
Speaker 2 (15:09):
Yes, most definitely, Joe Bugers should be in there. I
got I got you.
Speaker 1 (15:12):
To be understanding that because I always think that's kind
of silly.
Speaker 4 (15:15):
That's still yeah, that's silly, Like just because we was
good as a group, what they mean?
Speaker 6 (15:19):
Asked this question?
Speaker 5 (15:20):
Then can I don't know Tory Holt, Well, you know,
but you said there's too great ram.
Speaker 2 (15:29):
Me and talk about this all the time, me and Tanner.
Speaker 4 (15:31):
Because there's two groups to compare, right, we got the
greatest show on Turn and I played again and this
one I got them to which they numbers don't match
these other two groups I'm gonna talk about. All right, Yes,
Harrison should be in there, Marvin Harrison, but Reggie Wayne
got a case too. Then you got the greatest show
on turf with Tory Holt. Tory Holte should be in
the Hall of Fame, hands down. I don't want to
(15:52):
hear that. Too many people made it. Now, what you
hear about the coach say is Dren got in there,
Payton got in there, Marvin got in there. Nobody else
can get in there.
Speaker 1 (16:01):
But I think the thing that that Brahm said this
already with skill position people, it's different. Right, they have
more media availability, Right, they are more Yeah, I can go,
you can How can we talk about receivers? You like? Right,
you go through and you look at the stats, and
with offensive linemen, it's like I had to go back
and watch cutups of film promoting the Hogs and I
was like, oh my gosh. Like Joja Kobe Ram talked
(16:23):
about this, his ability to move and pull, move and
get to the second level like it felt different than
anybody else of the hero.
Speaker 3 (16:29):
That's why I find it hard to say that if
this guy was that dominant, and all those guys who
are great in this league, who we considered the best
of the best back in those days, have have vouched
for him, who's dropped the ball on getting his guy
to the Hall of Fame and you said it it's
a god come from the team. Now that's something that
because you know, it's so crazy that even with the
(16:50):
whole Devin Hester thing, Deon Sanders helped tremendously with that
whole thing going on. He talked about Devon every year
he vouched, talked about what this guy has done, and
it's a lot of when look, this is the crazy
part about it. When the whole thing came out and
Devin got up there and spoke about the other guys,
I was like, thank you, Devin. You understand because leading
(17:12):
up to when everybody heard that he was going to be,
you know, in and get his jacket, a lot of
people was disgrunted knowing that he didn't stand up there
on the list when it comes to the top ten
and kick returns and part returns.
Speaker 2 (17:25):
Now, he had touchdowns when it came here, but not
the yards.
Speaker 3 (17:28):
So I love the fact that he went up there
and humble this up and say, look, man, I'm just
the first guy. But there's plenty of the guys that
done this, a done it better, you know what I mean.
I'm the first guy that got in. So getting back
to Joja, Kobe Man. I just find it hard to
see a guy and I didn't watch watch the halls
back then. I was too young, but to hear the
stuff and just to see some of the footage about
(17:50):
how dominant he was, and then you say this guy,
it almost reminds me of when Lin Swann went in
way before Starworth and star Wars was the one that
averaged a thousand yards of season, and lin Swann was
just known for the great Super Bowl. Heroy cap say
his playoff. He caught an excited, heroic catches. But star
Wars was the stiple he was the number one receiver.
Speaker 6 (18:08):
That's right.
Speaker 3 (18:08):
He led that receiver corps and he goes in by
the time I'm in my.
Speaker 2 (18:12):
Tenth year in the league.
Speaker 6 (18:14):
Listen, you know what I'm saying.
Speaker 2 (18:15):
So it's like, this is ridiculous.
Speaker 6 (18:16):
I mentioned Gary Clark earlier.
Speaker 5 (18:18):
I believe that Gary Clark is an one of those
underrated players that's ever come through the NXL lit alone
this franchise. It took a long time for Art Monk
to get into the Hall of Fame, even though his
stats were so overwhelmingly dominant. But it was ridiculous. It
took it as long as it did, and I think
part of it was the personality. He didn't like talking
to him and it was so quiet. But then once
he got in again, this was one of those political
(18:39):
things where, well, we're not going to put both of
them into the Hall of Fame. So I don't subscribe
to I think you let everybody's career stand on its own.
And just because the team was lucky enough to have
two Hall of Fame offensive linemen, why would you punish
one of them over the other because you have some
kind of quota of how many people can get in.
His greatness stands on its towne. Can I give you
one more?
Speaker 1 (18:59):
Like? One more?
Speaker 2 (19:02):
Okay?
Speaker 5 (19:03):
I want to so like in the first championship, this
is actually amazing. You know, his mom died while he
was in his rookie camp, so he played through the
season and it was his mother's birthday on the day
of the Super Bowl that they won.
Speaker 6 (19:16):
So there's a background story here for Joe.
Speaker 5 (19:18):
In that eighty two playoffs, you know, Saquon Barkley broke
just about every rushing record. He did not break the
postseason rush record, which is still held by John Riggins.
That year six hundred and ten yards in one postseason.
That still stands. Good luck anybody chasing that down, especially
if Saquon's not going to do it off of the
year that he just had. That's the Hogs. That's jo Jacoby.
(19:40):
That's also the great John Riggins. A year later, in
his mid thirties, John Riggins rushes for twenty four rushing touchdowns.
Now he's a great and belongs in the Hall of Fame.
That's also jo Jacoby and the Hogs allowing for something
like that to occur at an advanced age. In nineteen
eighty seven, Timmy Smith broke the Super Bowl record for
rush yards in a game. That's Jojacoby and the Hogs
(20:03):
in the same game. You guys are gonna talk to
Doug Williams, which is the greatest quarter that's ever been
played by any team. Eighteen plays, thirty five points, three
hundred and fifty yards of offense that'll never get touched.
Speaker 2 (20:17):
That's Jojacoby and the Hogs too.
Speaker 6 (20:19):
That's the whole operation.
Speaker 5 (20:20):
In nineteen ninety one, they played nineteen games, they gave.
Speaker 6 (20:24):
Up nine sacks.
Speaker 5 (20:26):
Nine This isn't even the original Hogs anymore. This is
Jojacoby in a completely new set of players, but they're
doing this with it's ridiculous that he's not in the
Hall of Fame. He in four Super Bowls never gave
up a sack and in fourteen playoff games.
Speaker 2 (20:42):
Gave up two.
Speaker 6 (20:43):
We're talking about the best of the best.
Speaker 2 (20:45):
And he's playing Lowns, Taylor and Regie White. He's playing
the best players about once a year.
Speaker 7 (20:51):
Yes, yes, it don't make no sense.
Speaker 3 (20:54):
I mean, and it's honest to say because and I'm
glad we're making this case for Joe, because I feel
like this is something that we can talk about from
a lot of guys. There's a lot of guys that
when we when we grew up watching, whether they was
you know, skilled guys or not, that I feel like
don't get enough credit. So I honestly think it's something
broken with the Hall of Fame. I guess with guys
(21:15):
getting voted in or whoever is the guy that's supposed
to be you know, a popularity content, and that's wrong,
don't because when it comes to just the peoples alone,
you have to reward these people, many people for it
hard made it through certain circumstances to be a professional player,
than to go out there and play on the top,
top tier level and don't get the credit for when
they leave the game, because that's what you want as
(21:36):
a player. You want to be recognized for the good
or bad you then in then why not recognize the
past anyway? Because these guys didn't have chance to make
eighty million dollars when you get that HOF on your name,
that gives them revenue that comes in differently.
Speaker 2 (21:52):
Like chose to pay hummage to these guys.
Speaker 4 (21:54):
This is more serious to them than I think it
is to some guys that played in our time, because
if you win lose a jow, you was rewarded in
some form of fashion. They were rewarded by being remembered,
and the Hall of Fame is about remembering people.
Speaker 1 (22:08):
How we going to remember the Holls without Joe Jacob.
Speaker 6 (22:10):
It's really interesting.
Speaker 5 (22:11):
The Redskins were dynasty back in the teen eighties and
they were really led by this offensive line. But you know,
think about how many players from those years actually got
into the Hall of Fame. It's actually quite small. Like
Joe Gibbs had coaches in John Riggins, but he only
played in the early stretches of it. He didn't play
in those other suits. The last three Super Bowls. He
wasn't even people playing of those teams.
Speaker 6 (22:30):
Art Monk got in, Darryl Green got in. That's it,
that's it. That's it.
Speaker 5 (22:33):
The Patriots who have been a dynasty here up through
the Brady Belichick era.
Speaker 6 (22:38):
Same thing's going to happen.
Speaker 5 (22:39):
There's only going to be a select few of these
guys that actually get into the Hall of Fame. They're
going to be having these discussions about some of those
players too. Their team dominance is being overlooked for the
sole specialties that the players brought to it. Like Dexter
Manley could be in the Hall of Fame.
Speaker 4 (22:55):
Easy right, Mark Mark Moseley won AMVP is akier.
Speaker 5 (23:00):
Man Mosley could be in the Hall of Fame. Gary
Clark could be in the Hall of Fame. But because
of their team dominance and because they were a humble
team actually with the few exceptions of the personalities.
Speaker 4 (23:11):
They need you, they needed me you played.
Speaker 2 (23:15):
On those teams, I would have sold. I would have lost.
Speaker 1 (23:21):
I would have sold us though.
Speaker 4 (23:23):
I would I would have sold my teammates. Because that's
why I'm wanting about London all the time. Because I
appreciate the value of work that he did and for
him not we're talking about two of the best. No,
I ain't gonna say two of I'm gonna go out
of the line and say, right now, jo Jacobe and
London Fletcher out of two best one A and one
be best undrafted players all time, they got the number
(23:47):
one into best undrafted players all time.
Speaker 1 (23:50):
It's interesting talking about this because I think it highlights
a problem. It it's a problem in the NFL. You
were talking about the Hall of Fame. But I do
think like it's really hard to on a five offensive
line play and so even when you're looking at the media,
for example, like you're relying on another person's perspective to
inform your perspective, especially if you're a media member, you
know what I mean, And so I look at him
like so today, I'm sure, I'm sure we can all
(24:12):
name the top five running backs, probably named the top
five art receivers. Could you name the top five we
are analysts for a team, could you name the top
five offensive lineman in the NFL? I could, Yeah, you could,
But can the average fan through that because there's no
fantasy football for them?
Speaker 3 (24:25):
But also, but I also feel I ain't mean to
cut you off for you always Uh No, honestly, I
just feel like it also shure relies in the hands
of someone who covers us. Yes, don't get me wrong,
I have nothing against the media. I'm now a part
of the media. I just feel like there's conflict of
interest at somebodas because you get some some guy like
(24:48):
you say, who's who's soft spoken, so that that beat
writer might feel like, you know, he never talked to me,
So I'm not voting.
Speaker 7 (24:54):
Fum, you know, and vice versa. I've seen it done.
Speaker 3 (24:57):
I've seen a guy put front page news that I
was a bus if I even got a chance to
speak to him because I couldn't speak to him, you
know what I mean, because he just had a bias
about me. So when it comes to you know, rewarding me,
I shouldn't be rewarded by someone who's writing about us.
I should be rewarded by the league that I'm in
and the players and the coaches that I either play
widow play it again.
Speaker 5 (25:17):
I will say to that, like of the people who
are in the room doing the voting, they're typically not
the hot take artists who go in those directions with
their careers.
Speaker 6 (25:26):
That said it.
Speaker 5 (25:27):
Really it takes the right advocates on behalf of the team,
and clearly this team has not had And I'm not
you know, I'm not being dismissive of the people who
do it because it's a hard job. There are people
like jo Jacobe. It's absurd that he's not in the
Hall of Fame. Therefore they're not being advocated for properly.
Because the case that we're telling here, I could go
(25:49):
on and on about this. He is singularly one of
the greatest offensive linemen in the history of the NFL.
And I would defy anybody in that room in Canton
to argue with me about which is why I say,
tell me why you're not putting it in.
Speaker 1 (26:02):
So you know, it's a problem.
Speaker 6 (26:04):
I know about him, it's a problem.
Speaker 4 (26:06):
Then it's the problem in newness and forgetting about the past.
The problem is the process in order to get in
because yeah, it's a little bit of both.
Speaker 2 (26:16):
It meets the world's Clyde.
Speaker 3 (26:18):
There's so many guys that and I don't want to get,
you know, too far ahead, But we talk about this
all the time with receivers. We name names that Jimmy Smiths,
the Urban friars. These are names that you probably, Oh, man,
I forgot about those guys. The number speaks for themself,
but field stuff, but even.
Speaker 1 (26:35):
The numbers by itself. He played the small market.
Speaker 3 (26:36):
Yeah, but I understanding. But I'm saying, like, when it
comes down to just what did I do? Forget the market,
Forget the notoriety that I get. Yeah, market that I YEA.
When it's all said and done, You're gonna compare my
stats to everybody else that's up here.
Speaker 1 (26:49):
What did I do?
Speaker 2 (26:50):
I get enough credit? Should I play? Should I be
up there with?
Speaker 4 (26:52):
You know what Jimmy got in got in coming with
the two guys were talking about he wasn't he lowly drafted?
It's I'm about that. We didn't put you on a
pedestal then, but we aint gonna put.
Speaker 3 (27:04):
You on one now because you you lift these guys
up to make your brand what it is. He was playing, well,
we had good games or big games, prime time games.
I'm pretty sure you know the Jojo Kobe's of the
world who played like you just said this stats are
ridiculous to speaks for himself, regardless if he's an office
alignment or not. Regardless if you have an office alignment already,
that's supposed to be the spokesperson, which I never heard
(27:26):
anything like that in my life. If you put up,
if you put in the work and you went out
there and you consider it the best at what you do,
you should get together.
Speaker 1 (27:34):
I think that's I think that's the I think that's
the problem here with Joe. If I was going to
kind of try to pinpoint it, right, yeah, because he's
playing in an era where he was not the guy
on the pedestal, right, it was what's his name from Cincinnati, Munos.
Munos was the guy, right, And so that's where it's
so funny with off If you look at the first
ballot guys. I'm not saying Jojokobe should have been the
first ballot guy, but when you look at those guys,
it's all tackles that define an era. Your Jackie Slator
(27:57):
is your Munos, is your Joe Thomas. I love Joe,
but no, but he was he was the best tackle
of his era. They won nothing, but he didn't win anything.
But it's like ten was just talking about individual performance, right,
And so I think that's the other thing here that
that's tough with Joe is like he's there's all these
other great players, right, and you can't put everybody in,
but he's also part of a great team. Yeah, and
(28:18):
it does run I think too.
Speaker 2 (28:22):
Can I ask you something else?
Speaker 1 (28:23):
No goodness, do you.
Speaker 3 (28:26):
Think that this thing will have to be changed so later?
Far the Hall of Fame, I don't like it. It's
that they don't want a lot in, but it's so
many guys.
Speaker 2 (28:34):
That the process has to change.
Speaker 1 (28:35):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (28:36):
I think you've been around a long time following this game.
I just I'm wonder that you guys question that.
Speaker 6 (28:41):
I don't think it's going to change. I don't know.
Speaker 5 (28:45):
And again, like as someone who's you know, never been
a player, and you know, wants to think that we
know the game as well and are kind of stewards
of it, you know, caretakers of it. That's how I
look at it. From my position. I'm a caretaker of
telling the story of this team, and I hope people
value that, even though I never put.
Speaker 6 (29:02):
On the uniforms like you guys did.
Speaker 5 (29:04):
And you know, so I think, like I'm protective of
the idea that people in my position who cover this
for a living and follow it really should have a
voice in the room.
Speaker 6 (29:14):
About it.
Speaker 5 (29:15):
That said, I do believe more ex players should have
a say and maybe of equal weight to the media
or the advocates for the teams to do so because
they played and they know so when you sit there
and you go Reggie White, Randy White and Laurens Taylor
and Bruce Smith are saying he's one of the best players. Ever,
(29:37):
how is not not convincing you. Maybe they should be
in the room. Rip Reggie Waite, obviously, but they should
be in the room saying, wait a minute here, why
don't we speak up. We're wearing the jackets we played
against this guy. Maybe we should have a vote too,
so I could see we're an expansion of voices in
the rooms, specifically from the Hall of famers themselves and
(30:00):
ex players who you know still following are very close
to the game, have a voice in the room about this,
because this would stop I think some of these types
of players, especially in this case, from being overlooked.
Speaker 4 (30:10):
What can action is the Hogs you said, maybe they
don't want to do it because it's a name the
group and they already got a representative, but while you
got a.
Speaker 5 (30:18):
Couple, actually the you know, the hog Ets are in
the Hall of Fame too.
Speaker 6 (30:23):
Like great fans of all time.
Speaker 2 (30:25):
Let's talk about let's talk about some more game groups.
Speaker 4 (30:28):
The Steel Curtain, multiple guys in there, the Purple p Peters,
Minnesota Vikers.
Speaker 2 (30:37):
Yeah, I think so.
Speaker 6 (30:38):
Then you give Marshall Allen Patrick both in the.
Speaker 4 (30:41):
About there, so we can go through these these names
of these rememberant groups.
Speaker 1 (30:46):
But out of all those groups.
Speaker 2 (30:48):
This is the only group with one represented.
Speaker 5 (30:50):
Well, I mean, the Steel Curtains got how many six guys,
jackab Jack Lambert, all of them, almost all of me,
Joe Green, right, all of them, right, And so in
the case of the Hogs, it is kind of absurd
actually that there is one that is in the Hall
of Fame. It kind of doesn't really make a lot
of sense.
Speaker 1 (31:06):
Yeah, yeah, it's interesting because, like you know, when you're
doing research, and again, like this is maybe because you know,
Bram said, make an argument as to why not. Right,
one of the things that I heard was that they
protected him a lot in the system. Right, he had
tight end help, back help, They ran them all the time.
They kind of insulated them, you know what I mean.
And and it's funny to think of it.
Speaker 6 (31:24):
La It's Taylor both times you might get help, but.
Speaker 1 (31:27):
We can laugh, but we can laugh about it. But
like that's the thing. And then you compare them to Thorpe,
the other guy that I mentioned, right, and both parcels
comes out and says, oh, he's the best tackle that
else had to play against. Like it's it's just a
different perspective. And I think that's why this is so hard,
is it's so subjective. And I think even good players
will disagree about what what is good, you know, like
you could you would like the best player I played
(31:47):
against is probably not someone anybody's ever heard of. Yeah right,
he just gave me fits. Yeah, probably same with you, right.
Speaker 2 (31:52):
Yeah, I think that my talent didn't fit to check
this person or this.
Speaker 1 (31:57):
Or the scheme didn't fit that person or whatever it is.
You'll have to.
Speaker 5 (32:00):
Have the career longevity and the stats to prove that
they're part of this.
Speaker 4 (32:08):
But he told you he oughtic to count a tree
a play this steel ran today.
Speaker 1 (32:12):
But then but then the coach gets credit for the
schematic element of it.
Speaker 6 (32:17):
In the Hall of Fame put.
Speaker 1 (32:20):
And I think, and I think, I think Jacoby deserves
to be in there. But I think, when if I'm
in the if you're in the room, you just say, oh, well,
like there's other way other people deserve his You.
Speaker 2 (32:28):
Have to play devins avoc. Yeah, you have to do it.
Speaker 5 (32:30):
Yeah, this has happened with other groups, Like Joe Delamlaiir
just went into the Hall of Fame. I don't know
five years ago. He's maybe the best offensive lineman from
the Electric Company. That's OJ Simpson behind the Buffalo billby
offense and all those, Well, nobody knows who he is anymore.
It went along so long. This is what's happened to
Joe Jacoby. People forget how great the Hogs.
Speaker 6 (32:49):
Were, how great he was.
Speaker 5 (32:51):
So when I say Joe Delamalair, nobody knows who that is.
He was the best offensive lineman on the Bills.
Speaker 6 (32:56):
But because O. J.
Speaker 5 (32:57):
Simpson was so magnificent, they thought it would him, not them.
Speaker 4 (33:01):
Right, Yeah, but credit has to be handed out because
it's us correct. But people try to make football so
singular and it has more at the least than any
other sport playing at one time.
Speaker 1 (33:13):
You would try to make a singular.
Speaker 5 (33:15):
Think about this right now, like the Eagles have the
best offensive line in football? Was that all Saquon Barkley
last year. Of course not, of course not.
Speaker 2 (33:23):
They didn't have that line. Half of that number.
Speaker 5 (33:26):
Posted last year would not be behind a ridiculously bad
offensive line.
Speaker 6 (33:30):
Never would have happened.
Speaker 1 (33:31):
Right when this goes back to my other point, like,
could you name the top four tackles in the NFL
right now?
Speaker 4 (33:35):
Yeah, Peanos, you got Suol, You've got Trent Williams, a
lot of, you got my lot of and you got
Lanz Justin and you've got Thomson Lane Johnson.
Speaker 1 (33:43):
Right. Yeah, So those are the four that come up.
And of those guys that when they decide or when
it's time for them to go on the Hall of Fame,
how it goes according to.
Speaker 5 (33:51):
History Johnson, It's a good one because the Eagles are
going to get two guaranteed. Jason Kelsey's gonna go in
the Hall of Fame and Lane Johnson's they too.
Speaker 1 (34:00):
Well, centers have a weird history of not going you
know what I'm saying.
Speaker 6 (34:04):
But Jason Kese so incredibly popular, He's That.
Speaker 1 (34:08):
Goes back to but we could talk about this all
day long. Bram. Thank you so much for joining us.
You did a great pitch for it. Thank you so much.
And now we're going to bring in somebody who's played
with him, talk about the man himself. So we'll get
that going, Brian, way to sail it, Brian, Yeah, Brian
made a case. Baby. All right. Now we're back and
(34:31):
Doug Williams joins us. The man that needs no introduction.
And it's so fun to have guys like Doug in
the building because we can talk to Bram, who's watching
team as little kid. But to have a guy who
played with joj and had a really historic career in
his own right, he protected. It's awesome for you to
be here, Doug. Thanks for joining us, Thanks for having me.
So yeah, we're talking about Joe, and if you so
(34:55):
for someone who's never seen Joe play, like, I'm too young,
I never saw him playing, but I watch a little
bit of film getting ready for this, but it's all
that grainny, cut up stuff. How would you describe Jojia Kocher?
Speaker 8 (35:03):
You know what, when I first got here in eighty six, man,
I knew I was coming to a team with a
great offensive line. And then I got a chance when
I first got here just to set back and just
watch guys move around. You look at Joe. Joe's the
big old guy. You know, wasn't the most athletic guy,
but he got the job done. You know, you didn't
beat him in side, You didn't beat him outside because
(35:23):
of his side. You look at the guy that was
undrafted and that says a lot too. Man come in
and then become that starter man. And when I got
an opportunity to play my backside was something I know
did worry about.
Speaker 4 (35:38):
You're right, because you know it's a very intimate relationship
between left tackle or the quarterback, like for you to
back up all those times to pass the ball and
never think twice. And we're talking about some of the
best pass rushers this game he ever saw. We talking
about Redjie Whye, we talking about Lornce Taylor. We're talking
about the highest of competition. How did he gain your
(36:00):
trust from the first mini camp? And did it just
you just say, you know what this guy got this
let me push the ball down.
Speaker 8 (36:06):
I think coming in already a veteran, it was my
job to gain their confidence. And that's what I did.
You know, wase or not it was. Joel was not
as Mark Made, was not as Russ anybody that was
up front. You know, I had trust him because the
way they had played earlier. You know, I had a
chance to see him play before I got here, and
I think that's made for it. But to see those
guys play at the level that they played at and
(36:28):
see Joel, yeah, you know, play at the level that.
Speaker 1 (36:30):
He played at.
Speaker 8 (36:31):
Joe is the only guy that, you know, the time
I played here with with Coach Gibbs, the only guy
Coach Gibb would never put a play in that you
couldn't block it. But he was the only guy that
he left single handed with Lawrence Taylor. Yeah, the only
guy I've seen him without the tight end on his side.
Speaker 1 (36:48):
Yes, yeah, so this is everything. Well, it's crazy because
like when you hear people talk about him like, oh,
we got all this title help but didn't get it
from the horses, get it from reading from reading through it,
it's like, oh, that's the criticism. But like obviously you
know that's a different story.
Speaker 8 (37:04):
But quite naturally, we had offense where guy moved left,
moved right. But if there was time when it was
just him and Lawrence over there and nobody worried about that,
I didn't. I mean, you know, because what Joe had
did early and I believed in Joe.
Speaker 3 (37:17):
So tell me from all these years, if you just
watching certain guys getting the credit, who didn't get the credit,
and some of the guys who've got in there early,
especially nowadays, I'm kind of I scratched my head when
I see all these young guys is getting pushed in
the front.
Speaker 2 (37:30):
What what was it or what is.
Speaker 3 (37:31):
It that we can't sit here and say that you know,
Joe's not in yet.
Speaker 8 (37:35):
Well, you know, I said this a long time ago.
You know, when you think about the offensive line that
we had here for a decade or more and you
only got one guy in there and Rush Griham, there's
nowhere in the world when you see other teams got
two and three guys in the Hall of Fame that
we should not have at least two guys in the
Hall of Fame's and for Joe not to be in there,
I think it's a travesty.
Speaker 1 (37:56):
Yeah, it's a great point. Brem said something similar, and
I think it's like, again, like, how do you capture
how good the group was? Because you know, we.
Speaker 4 (38:04):
Talked about the name the group, we talked about the
steel curtain, we talk about the perfect people eaters, and
usually when you in as a group you just go one, two, three, four,
like they just continue to put you in. But this
seems to be the group that constance get overlooked. And
I don't know if it's a franchise thing. I don't
know if it's a newness thing, because you know, the
one thing we can generationally do is forget about the past,
(38:27):
not unmistakely, but forget about the pass.
Speaker 8 (38:30):
I think that you know, it's been a long time ago,
thirty some years ago, and I think that's unfortunate. But
they all got they also got to recognize what that
offensive line did, and especially what Joe did at the
left tackle. You know, we talk about Hall of famers,
a guy that played for ten years or more at
left tackle and did it. Well, yeah, you can't overlook him.
Speaker 3 (38:49):
Brown say that something about us pushing that more too? Yeah,
do you think as an organization we can do a
better job with the gym kind of trying to put
it back on the forefront when it comes to just
you know, every year, like hey, you know, we got
you got guys like Gary, you got guys like b Mitch,
you got guys like London and Joe. You know, I
think I'm not sure how how far does it go
when it comes to saying that you got like one
(39:09):
more year before you can just you know, before you
can get in up.
Speaker 2 (39:15):
Said something about it.
Speaker 3 (39:16):
He's senior category, So we almost to the point of
where they're going to just forget him about them.
Speaker 8 (39:23):
Yeah, and then he come up in the senior You know,
you got so many guys that's in that senior category
from way back when.
Speaker 1 (39:29):
Yeah, And I think that's the problem.
Speaker 8 (39:31):
But you know, if Joe's in the senior category, they
should put him in the front of the line.
Speaker 1 (39:34):
Yeah.
Speaker 4 (39:35):
I think that kind of messes up because you know,
when you get the hall that yellow jacket, it gives
you money making power.
Speaker 1 (39:41):
You know that you that some guys in the past
probably never have.
Speaker 4 (39:44):
And to rob him up there trying to do it
in his senior years, I think it's the worst thing
about it to me.
Speaker 1 (39:51):
And let me ask you this, did y'all y'all ran
the counter tray, right? Yes? We did, all right?
Speaker 2 (39:55):
And he's known for that counter trade a play that
we run today.
Speaker 8 (39:59):
Let me tell you, and I'm telling people talk about
the Super Bowl that he played in. We ran the
sixty counter trade man Jojakoba came around the side block
steal this guy inside. Not a soul touched Timmis Smith,
not one. So I'm talking about completely wife. When he
broke the record round completely wiped it out. You know
(40:20):
that that in itself says what Jacoba is all about it.
If you don't believe me, go get that film and
you'll see against Denver that when he came around pulling
Now we pulled it from his left tackle, coming all
the way to the right side and steal that whole
side in.
Speaker 1 (40:34):
So obviously he's a great player, right, You know, like,
how was he as a teammate? How was he? Man?
Speaker 8 (40:39):
Let me tell you can't get a better teammate. All
those guys, all those guys man that you know, nobody
that you couldn't sit down and talk to about anything.
You know, Jojakoba to me, gonna always be somebody especially
tell you why Because when I was dragging my leg
off the field of the Super Bowl, Joja Kobe walked
up to me and he told me. He said, hey,
Doug William He said, white, green and yellow. He said,
(41:01):
I don't care what they say, you our quarterback. You know,
to me, I thought that was especially in that moment
in that and that heat of that moment.
Speaker 1 (41:10):
Right cool man. Yeah, and so like as it's like,
you know, like obviously like on the field, he was
a certain way, probably like a pretty rough and tumble
kind of guy or you know what guy there was
talk about men. They was fist.
Speaker 8 (41:28):
But you know what the good thing about man, they
believe that they can do anything that Joel and Bus
asked him to do.
Speaker 1 (41:34):
They can move them.
Speaker 6 (41:35):
They feel like they can move the mountain if you
have to block it.
Speaker 8 (41:38):
Like you know, they came to heather Man and they
didn't talk into huddle. They listened to their quarterback and
when they got what they had to do and they
went to the line, they was ready to go.
Speaker 1 (41:48):
And then I think the other question is like, you know,
like do you have anything off the field, because you
know they had that little tent outside where the hangout.
Speaker 6 (41:55):
I wouldn't no, they had how right here? We wasn't here.
Speaker 8 (42:02):
We was at a place down on the other side
of the airport right there. And the guy who kept
up with the field, they had a house. He was
the guy to go get the beer and stuff like that.
Speaker 1 (42:11):
So there was an actual house, yeah, where to keep
on the linemolders.
Speaker 6 (42:16):
They had sofa chairs everything. And then yeah, but I
wasn't invited.
Speaker 1 (42:20):
I would say that.
Speaker 2 (42:22):
Remember you want three hundred pounds, you can't come in.
Speaker 8 (42:24):
No, it was on the one guy invited that didn't
play offensive line tight end Rick I was rigging were quarterback.
Speaker 1 (42:32):
He can't go in there.
Speaker 6 (42:33):
Man in the world, Joe and me, a real was
gonna go in there. Wasn't invited.
Speaker 1 (42:39):
Listen, I understand they stay no mad, but but you.
Speaker 8 (42:41):
Know what, that's the respect that everybody had for each other. Yeah,
that was they click and you had the post, you
had the fun bunch. Everybody had their little click man. Yeah,
and they believed in each other and they got together
and they had fun and they blocked people to death.
Speaker 1 (42:54):
They did what they was asked to do. That's right.
And so two things and then we can answer this
question again other what made him special, like as a person,
and then why do you think you should be in
the Hall of Fame?
Speaker 8 (43:05):
Well, as a person, Joe was was a down nerves guy.
Speaker 1 (43:08):
Talk to anybody got along.
Speaker 8 (43:10):
You just said, you hit the nail on the nail
on the head. Nothing milicious about Joe at all, nothing
at all. And the reason why I say he should
be in the Hall of Fame. I think you look
look across the board and you see some of the
guys that and I'm not taking anything away from the
guys that are going in there. Yeah, but but there's
no way in the word that Joe Jake Za Kobe
(43:31):
should not be in the NFL Football Hall of Fame.
Speaker 1 (43:34):
I don't know if there's a better endorsement than that, Like,
you know, Teddy, you were talking about this, like how
you want the players to do it. Yeah, I can't
think of a better way to kind of get that
endorsement from a guy who played with them, Yeah, and
say that like he deserves us, you know what I mean,
Like you cut out all the media, the personality being.
Speaker 8 (43:51):
Deserved, deserve halland you know, and you're talking about a
guy that you know, like I tell told people all
the time, we're all getting in out of twilight. Yeah,
and this is a great time for Joe Jacoby to
get it flowers man to be celebrated and not just
get this flower he deserves it. Yes, yes, motion, I
think that's how you got to look at it.
Speaker 1 (44:09):
Yeah. In addition to jo Jacoby, Yeah, we got we
got new news too. Yeah, it deserves me in the
Hall of Fame. I also think it's important that Doug
Williams gets recognized. Ye I'm saying, and this is a
little bit surprised, So I know you don't like this
kind of stuff, but there's a new new thing in
the Hall of Fame historical contribution and obviously your resume
is tremendous, bawls, championship games, all that.
Speaker 4 (44:29):
Oh no, we're talking about HBCU talking about you are
fit from jayde Daniels to Michael Vicks to the random
cunning Hams of.
Speaker 1 (44:37):
The world because he was the first. Oh yes, we're.
Speaker 4 (44:39):
Talking about the way you nurtured football throughout Louisiana and
this area.
Speaker 2 (44:46):
Tell him what we got.
Speaker 1 (44:47):
No, I'm just saying, like, that's that's that's you said
it because I look at I look at again, Like
football is a game, obviously, but there's sometimes something more
than Again, some people bigger than the game, and the
moments that Joe Jacob be talking about, like doesn't matter
what color you are, you're on a quarterback and that
starts a whole generation of young people. Yeah, looking and
saying I can do that, I can do that, and
I think that that's extremely special. On Joe. Joe, I'm
(45:10):
sorry I put you on the spot. Yeah, but it's
but it's cool to be in the same room as you.
Know what I'm saying, it's a good ambush.
Speaker 4 (45:19):
And what we're saying is like you, I being considered
for Historical Tribune to the NFL Hall of Fame.
Speaker 1 (45:27):
Yeah, which is which is unbelievable, but it's deserving. It's deserving,
most definitely. So I know you got a lot of
stuff going on, Doug. You just came in from practice
watching players, mentoring people. So thank you so much for
joining us. Really appreciate it'spuchal for us. Thanks for talking
about Joe, and thanks for being you and being around
the building.
Speaker 8 (45:44):
Appreciate it. It is my pleasure. But John could have told me.
Speaker 4 (45:49):
We just got the news, and I told him, we
want to be the first to let you know this news.
So congratulation, especially knowing that you also and I hope
they do it at these same am exact time with
you and jo Jakobe because that'll really make it special
for Washington. And congratulations you have and will and I
considered to be a Hall of Famer, very.
Speaker 1 (46:10):
Soon, sir, thank you, Sir. I appreciate that anytime
On today's episode of The Command Center Podcast, we have
a Hall of Fame edition. Bram Weinstein joins us for
Jo Jacobe and why he should be in the Hall
of Fame. Man, Man, we were excited to talk to
Brandy did a great job defending his case. And then, man,
nothing is more important to get teammates to come and
vouch for you. Yeah, and we got a great Jojacoby teammate.
That's Doug Williams. He comes by and gives his testament.
(00:21):
He as to why Joe should.
Speaker 2 (00:23):
Be in the Hall of Fame, and watch a surprise
him too.
Speaker 1 (00:25):
It all starts right now. Welcome into the Command Center Podcast.
I'm Logan Paulson here with Fred spoot, Santana Moss and
our very special guest, the voice of the Washington Commander
is Braan Winsta. Thanks for coming, Bram, How you doing,
Buddy good? Thanks for having me good, excellent having you here. Man.
We're gonna talk a little bit about you know, some
(00:45):
people who deserve to be in the Hall of Fame,
and Bram has been a fan maybe longer than anybody
I know on the beats, and so his INSIGHT's gonna
be really helpful when talking about this individual. But in
the meantime, we got some things we to talk about.
We got the live show coming up CC podcast. That's
this pod Friday, June twentieth at the Muni meal. We
got merch giveaways, and we have a surprise legend coming.
(01:06):
So if you like surprises yep, and you like merch
and you like us, please join us at the Muni
on June twentieth. Right, any thoughts on that phone, Hey, listen,
be there, b Square, be there, be Square. I think
that's excellent. And then we got our mega mail bag
coming up. And you guys have been giving us questions
on Instagram and Twitter. It's hard for us to get
all those questions together. Yeah, so make sure for those
(01:27):
questions you go to that hawk outside spelled out at
gmail dot com. Leave your questions. We want to have
an interactive experience when we do the mail bag. We
want to make sure we get to everybody's questions, and
so that's the best way to do that, that hawk
outside at gmail dot com. Yes, all right, now, this
is every We've done this a couple weeks in a row. Now,
this is the most important thing of the announcements. It
(01:48):
is get your Commander's tickets. Now, oh you're us, but yeah,
do it through us. Right, you see that little QR
code down here in the corner, right, Let's make sure
we use that one because it helps us out. They say,
oh wow, people really watch this show. They will buy
tickets the show. It helps us, helps our budget, helps
us out. Make sure you do that. And then right
(02:10):
we've got RFK stadium news. We're all excited about that.
Brand's excited about that, right fram So if you want updates,
visit Commanders dot com Backslash New Stadium where you can
sign up to learn more and show your support. That's important.
The ownership wants to know that you guys want this,
We want this. We assume you guys want this, so
(02:31):
let's make sure.
Speaker 3 (02:32):
Take bring the guys home, bring the the f.
Speaker 1 (02:48):
So that's it. Live show, mail bag, tickets QR code.
That's really important. And if you want stadium updates, check
out Commanders dot Com Backslash New Stadium. Now, the reason
you're all here, I don't know if you're all here
for this. I don't if you even tease this on
the last show, but we're talking Hall of Fame, and
we're talking Hall of fame for someone who, at least
(03:09):
in my mind, doesn't get enough love, and that's jo Jocobin.
Speaker 4 (03:11):
Well, I have to say, first of all, officsive lineman
in generalal don't get enough love. And we're talking about
the past, all right, so now we're talking about it. Oh,
the officsive Lammy in a time where the new office
of Lamy don't get the love that they deserve.
Speaker 2 (03:24):
So yeah, we here to talk about it.
Speaker 1 (03:26):
And I just looked through kind of getting ready for
the show, like who makes the Hall of Fame as
an offensive lineman? Yeah, and it's literally like, if you're
the best dude of your generation, that's it. You're in
first pretty slim pickings after that, which is tough. And
I think like that's kind of where why this is
so hard for Joe.
Speaker 5 (03:42):
It feels like, so let me let me start this
conversation in a place that I think it should be,
which is and I think there's a number of players.
I think every organization could say this, but London Fletcher
should be in the Hall of Fame, Brian.
Speaker 6 (03:54):
Nodad should be in the Hall of Fame.
Speaker 5 (03:55):
You know, I don't think Gary Clark or Larry Brown
will ever get in because of the age, they should
be in the Hall of Fame too, But Jojacoby tops
the list. And I would start this conversation this way,
because I know you're going to say, make a case
for him. I would flip it and say, back to
the Hall of Fame voters, explain to me why he's
not that this really this isn't about because I could
(04:16):
write for days about what Jojacoby meant to the team,
what he was for this team, the accomplishments. You want stats,
I have them. You want iconic plays, I have them.
You want iconic moments part of iconic units, I have them.
You want one of the most incredible come from nowhere
stories you've ever heard of, I have it for you.
So I'd like to hear from the voters. Why is
he not in the Hall of Fame. Why do I
(04:38):
have to sit here and tell you how great he
was every single year when anybody who knows this sport
should know that. So he's at the top of the list,
And to me, it's someone that's been overlooked and never
should have been. He might be the greatest hog of
the greatest unit of offensive linemen ever.
Speaker 6 (04:54):
It's a travesty thing. It's not in the Hall of fame.
Speaker 3 (04:57):
I think it's a six a po thing. See Jojacob
is a an e Van. Nobody fans of Minivans sexy.
They would rather have a Ferrari.
Speaker 2 (05:04):
And we talked about Anthony Munios was in his class.
Speaker 1 (05:07):
Anthony Munos Zimmerman like, there's some guys that are kind
of defined their era.
Speaker 4 (05:13):
But and still don't have accomplishments that he has. See
that's the thing about it, And let's be honest. Russ
Griham was more of a talker when to get to that, Like,
Russ Griham is more of a talker than Jojacobe is.
Jojacoby is a quiet guy. That's similar to London. London
was not the salesman that Ray is, but he got
all the stat that Ray does.
Speaker 3 (05:33):
But my question with that is, because I'm gonna ask
you this, and that's why I asked you earlier off
off era, how old are you by you watching.
Speaker 7 (05:40):
This game from that from and that kid in the
games here and being with you.
Speaker 6 (05:45):
I'm the one who went to the art I was
actually filmed there to.
Speaker 2 (05:52):
College game.
Speaker 3 (05:53):
Yeah, so Ben that you was there, you watched and
probably whether it was with a grandfather, your dad, whoever
you went to the game with. When you had to
compare the two guys from a Russ Grimm, who who's
in the hof and you got Joja Kobe, who's another
guy who we feel that should be there? Compare those
two guys like who was the guy on it? Who
was the guy on that line?
Speaker 5 (06:14):
So the hardest part of comparing the one they both
belong there. Yeah, like this isn't a one was better?
Speaker 3 (06:22):
Say who was the guy that you heard about to
be who was the guy that interested?
Speaker 6 (06:27):
Interestingly, it's Joe and it's not Russ.
Speaker 5 (06:31):
Of the Super Bowl championships they went to the four
that they played, he's the only one of the original
Hogs that actually played in all of them and won
three Super Bowls. Not Russ Grim, not anybody else. So
he has the longevity of this career. He played every
position on the offensive line outside of center, but he
was best known. He was an undrafted rookie free agent
who ended up being a starting left tackle and went
(06:52):
to four straight Pro Bowls, two times All Pro four times.
In the early eighties, they were top four in rushing,
Top four in rushing. Yeah, six times over a nine
year period they were top seven or better.
Speaker 6 (07:04):
That's jo Jacoby. They had great.
Speaker 5 (07:06):
Running backs, they had a Hall of Famer in John Riggins,
they had Gerald Riggs, they had Ernest Beiner. Yeah, great
running backs that played here. But he's the constant actually
through the entire decade. They asked him to do so
many different things. And so this isn't an indictment of
Russ He belongs there to no doubt, but the player
who really defined the dominance of the Hags Jojacoby.
Speaker 2 (07:28):
So how did he get missed? I don't know.
Speaker 1 (07:30):
So I think when you look go back and look
at the All Decade Team, I think that's a pretty
good indication of like kind of how people perceive them
at the time. Yeah, Russ Grim is considered the second
best guard in the NFL at the time, and Jo Jacoby,
according to this list, which is the All Decade Team,
was considered the fourth best tackle of all time. So whatever,
and again he's playing with Anthony Munyo. Yeah right, And
(07:51):
so I think when you look at that and you say, like,
and this is where I go back to the media,
the his personality, because so much of that to me
is dictation. Buy the media and buy your personality. And
if you're not at the forefront of conversation, you're not
in front of a camera, I think people will forget
about you. It's kind of like, yeah, no, it's the
same thing that I think about this with Fletch, Like
Fletch played in small market teams. Yeah, for a long time, yes,
(08:12):
and then he came here and he finally got the
big he got his first Pro Bowl. Yeah. But like,
if you're a guy or a media voter or a
Hall of Fame voter that looks at all how many
Pro Bowls were they in, that's not fair to Fletch, Yeah,
and it's not far to Joe.
Speaker 3 (08:24):
I also find it hard to have the acolagues that
Joe have because it all balls down to what have
you done?
Speaker 2 (08:31):
You know what I mean?
Speaker 7 (08:32):
When it's all said, have done?
Speaker 6 (08:33):
What did you do?
Speaker 3 (08:34):
And if they go down the list and say, if
I'm gonna read everything from man, man from man, look
at the stats, look at what he accomplished. That's the
Hall of Fame are that's whatever you want to name it,
and he should get it from there, you know.
Speaker 1 (08:44):
You should.
Speaker 3 (08:44):
You shouldn't have to worry about how many times your
name was brought up.
Speaker 2 (08:47):
What market you was in.
Speaker 7 (08:48):
I'm sure your name brought up a lot because he
went to four Super Bowls.
Speaker 2 (08:50):
Well, it's interesting too, he's part of Well, he played
in four, they.
Speaker 5 (08:54):
Won one, three played in the four. He's the only
linement of the group that actually played in each of
the one of them. And he played at all these
different positions. If you want moments, and this is the
hard part for offensive lineman or defensive lineman, often there's
no moment breaking point to Well, if you watch what
might be the greatest play in Redskins history, which is
the John Riggins fourth and one run in the first
(09:15):
Super Bowl Championship. Guess who the lead blocker is on
that right, That's Jojacoby. Do you want an iconic play
the counter tray is Joe Jacoby. That he is the
one who is pulling. He is one of the kind
of forefront of the athletic tackles that you see. Now
we went and drafted Josh Connerly. Why because he's an
athletic tackle that can move. This has become a norm
(09:38):
in the NFL. Now, it wasn't then. Jojacoby kind of
redefined the position and the counter tray became the hallmark
play of the Washington offense that led to the rushing
game that was dominant through the course of a decade.
And what you'll see over and over if you watch
highlights is sixty six pulling and everybody getting out of
his way because he was a road grader.
Speaker 4 (09:59):
Can we agree maybe the NFA didn't like the intro
of those two players. When they talk about jo Ja
Kobe and London Fletcher, they both undrafted guys.
Speaker 1 (10:08):
Actually, so when you.
Speaker 4 (10:10):
Say, uh, when they guys was in the draft, we
didn't think they was draft worthy and now they turn
out to be Hall of Fame.
Speaker 1 (10:18):
Was that we get it too wrong.
Speaker 7 (10:19):
But I don't think that you're getting it wrong.
Speaker 3 (10:22):
They should lift those guys up and show we show
all the other guys that you can honestly be one
of these guys one day.
Speaker 7 (10:28):
You can be undrafted and be a great because sidered
the girl.
Speaker 5 (10:31):
Well, if you are either undrafted or a low draft
pick at a skill position, you show to the people
who you are. Tom Brady clearly is a first ballot
Hall of Famer, has a sixth round pick overlooked his
entire career. Yeah, for offensive linemen for defensive lineman, if
you're not an edge rusher and you get a bazillion SAT. Yeah,
it is hard to make that case. And it is,
I think hard to overcome that. What's amazing about Jake two.
(10:55):
You know, the Redskins drafted four offensive linemen in the
twelve round draft before.
Speaker 2 (10:59):
He was taking.
Speaker 5 (11:00):
It's an undrafted free agent. There were twenty eight tackles
that were taken in that draft ahead of him, and
he ended up starting like his second year and became
a dominant All Pro player. That's an amazing, amazing story
and it should be celebrated.
Speaker 1 (11:14):
Yeah, but I look at like the other people from
this era, from the eighties team, I just kind of
want to looked at for tackles. There's a guy named
Jimbo Covert. He played for the Bears, right, and so
to Fred's point, he was a first round pick. Yes,
he's on the cover of Sports Illustrated handed to him.
He won a Super Bowl with the Bears. He won
the Super Bowl twenty with the Bears eighty five, and
he got a recommendation from Bill Parcells basically saying he's
the best player that alt he played against him, So
(11:35):
he got in twenty twenty, and so I do. I
do think as much as we want to think of
this process as being totally unbiased, it is biased. It's biased.
It's bias fir people who people recognize it.
Speaker 4 (11:45):
No, think about these They love Tom now, they didn't
always love Tom because he was always put against Peyton
Manning Payton the sweet prints of quarterbacking. Do you not
think they would have really say, you some stock pay
Man in his stock and Tom Brady. Tom just kept
that chip on his shoulder because he was.
Speaker 2 (12:04):
In a golden boy.
Speaker 1 (12:05):
They said, you know what, I'm gonna play it out
to the end.
Speaker 2 (12:07):
All right, I'm gonna give it everything I gut. Let me.
Speaker 5 (12:10):
You want endorsements, I'll give you that for Joe two.
Randy White's in the Hall of Fame describe Jojacoby as
one of the greatest offensive linemen He's ever actually faced
Reggie White. Maybe the greatest defensive lineman to ever play
the game, maybe the greatest one to ever play the game,
said quote, it's a matter of time before he gets
into the Hall of Fame. And he is one of
the greatest players I've ever had to go up against.
(12:32):
Lawrence Taylor. Maybe the greatest, most disruptive defensive player in
the yeas Jojacobe was one of the toughest competitors he
ever went against. Think about this too. In the period
of time that he played, seven of the twelve Super
Bowls were won by NFC East teams. Yes, three by
the Redskins, but two by the Giants and two by
(12:52):
the Cowboys. So he was in the toughest, most dominant
division hit time. He has seventy six games against Hall
of Fame defenseive lignement. Yes, his credentials are absurd, and
that's why it isn't about naked a case for him.
It's about it explain to me why he's not in
the Hall.
Speaker 7 (13:09):
Yes, So how how does this those votes sway?
Speaker 3 (13:13):
Like, like I've always wondered how much of that leans
on the media and how much of the leans influence
it's between mehen we first got in the lead, they're
saying that the media pick picks a lot of those
guys for.
Speaker 2 (13:24):
Hall of Fame's Pro Bowl, all pro media.
Speaker 6 (13:27):
Politics, politics.
Speaker 4 (13:29):
It meets media meets coaches too, Like, oh, coaches, So I.
Speaker 7 (13:33):
Want to know what's the percentage, Like how much the coach.
Speaker 4 (13:36):
Like Parceales has a lot of power to sway. Like
if parts Sales sit you down and say, this player
right here was one of the most dominant players.
Speaker 2 (13:45):
I played against what's his name? That weighs a lot.
Speaker 3 (13:48):
So all those guys just did that for him, and
he's still not in there. Yeah, all those guys, from
Lawrence Taylor, from Reggie White. That means that the people
not listening. That's what I'm saying. Who is the person
that they're sitting there? You know, there's a lot to that.
Speaker 5 (14:03):
Like every team, as an advocate, the advocate needs to
advocate strongly. The players that have the credentials to do
so need to have some political gain within the other
voters to say it is time to put our guys in.
It's ridiculous London Fletcher is not. Once they put Devin
(14:26):
Hester into the Hall of Fame, that was the idea
that Brian Mitchell is not is a ridiculous, ridiculous oversight
by the group. And in Jo Jacobe's case, here's the
most iconic player on the most iconic offensive line, who
played longer than any of those other players did, and
somehow he's not in the Hall of Fame.
Speaker 6 (14:42):
That doesn't even make sense.
Speaker 1 (14:43):
The argument that I've heard from people is that, you know,
the the Five Hogs were kind of a sum of
the parts, Like what they were as five together was
better the individuals. Take that away from me. The thing
that I've heard. The thing that I've heard from people
is that like they wanted to pick a representative from
that group to represent this history.
Speaker 2 (15:02):
And risk Griham's dead represented.
Speaker 6 (15:05):
I believe you because should be in the Hall of Fame.
Speaker 2 (15:09):
Yes, most definitely, Joe Bugers should be in there. I
got I got you.
Speaker 1 (15:12):
To be understanding that because I always think that's kind
of silly.
Speaker 4 (15:15):
That's still yeah, that's silly, Like just because we was
good as a group, what they mean?
Speaker 6 (15:19):
Asked this question?
Speaker 5 (15:20):
Then can I don't know Tory Holt, Well, you know,
but you said there's too great ram.
Speaker 2 (15:29):
Me and talk about this all the time, me and Tanner.
Speaker 4 (15:31):
Because there's two groups to compare, right, we got the
greatest show on Turn and I played again and this
one I got them to which they numbers don't match
these other two groups I'm gonna talk about. All right, Yes,
Harrison should be in there, Marvin Harrison, but Reggie Wayne
got a case too. Then you got the greatest show
on turf with Tory Holt. Tory Holte should be in
the Hall of Fame, hands down. I don't want to
(15:52):
hear that. Too many people made it. Now, what you
hear about the coach say is Dren got in there,
Payton got in there, Marvin got in there. Nobody else
can get in there.
Speaker 1 (16:01):
But I think the thing that that Brahm said this
already with skill position people, it's different. Right, they have
more media availability, Right, they are more Yeah, I can go,
you can How can we talk about receivers? You like? Right,
you go through and you look at the stats, and
with offensive linemen, it's like I had to go back
and watch cutups of film promoting the Hogs and I
was like, oh my gosh. Like Joja Kobe Ram talked
(16:23):
about this, his ability to move and pull, move and
get to the second level like it felt different than
anybody else of the hero.
Speaker 3 (16:29):
That's why I find it hard to say that if
this guy was that dominant, and all those guys who
are great in this league, who we considered the best
of the best back in those days, have have vouched
for him, who's dropped the ball on getting his guy
to the Hall of Fame and you said it it's
a god come from the team. Now that's something that
because you know, it's so crazy that even with the
(16:50):
whole Devin Hester thing, Deon Sanders helped tremendously with that
whole thing going on. He talked about Devon every year
he vouched, talked about what this guy has done, and
it's a lot of when look, this is the crazy
part about it. When the whole thing came out and
Devin got up there and spoke about the other guys,
I was like, thank you, Devin. You understand because leading
(17:12):
up to when everybody heard that he was going to be,
you know, in and get his jacket, a lot of
people was disgrunted knowing that he didn't stand up there
on the list when it comes to the top ten
and kick returns and part returns.
Speaker 2 (17:25):
Now, he had touchdowns when it came here, but not
the yards.
Speaker 3 (17:28):
So I love the fact that he went up there
and humble this up and say, look, man, I'm just
the first guy. But there's plenty of the guys that
done this, a done it better, you know what I mean.
I'm the first guy that got in. So getting back
to Joja, Kobe Man. I just find it hard to
see a guy and I didn't watch watch the halls
back then. I was too young, but to hear the
stuff and just to see some of the footage about
(17:50):
how dominant he was, and then you say this guy,
it almost reminds me of when Lin Swann went in
way before Starworth and star Wars was the one that
averaged a thousand yards of season, and lin Swann was
just known for the great Super Bowl. Heroy cap say
his playoff. He caught an excited, heroic catches. But star
Wars was the stiple he was the number one receiver.
Speaker 6 (18:08):
That's right.
Speaker 3 (18:08):
He led that receiver corps and he goes in by
the time I'm in my.
Speaker 2 (18:12):
Tenth year in the league.
Speaker 6 (18:14):
Listen, you know what I'm saying.
Speaker 2 (18:15):
So it's like, this is ridiculous.
Speaker 6 (18:16):
I mentioned Gary Clark earlier.
Speaker 5 (18:18):
I believe that Gary Clark is an one of those
underrated players that's ever come through the NXL lit alone
this franchise. It took a long time for Art Monk
to get into the Hall of Fame, even though his
stats were so overwhelmingly dominant. But it was ridiculous. It
took it as long as it did, and I think
part of it was the personality. He didn't like talking
to him and it was so quiet. But then once
he got in again, this was one of those political
(18:39):
things where, well, we're not going to put both of
them into the Hall of Fame. So I don't subscribe
to I think you let everybody's career stand on its own.
And just because the team was lucky enough to have
two Hall of Fame offensive linemen, why would you punish
one of them over the other because you have some
kind of quota of how many people can get in.
His greatness stands on its towne. Can I give you
one more?
Speaker 1 (18:59):
Like? One more?
Speaker 2 (19:02):
Okay?
Speaker 5 (19:03):
I want to so like in the first championship, this
is actually amazing. You know, his mom died while he
was in his rookie camp, so he played through the
season and it was his mother's birthday on the day
of the Super Bowl that they won.
Speaker 6 (19:16):
So there's a background story here for Joe.
Speaker 5 (19:18):
In that eighty two playoffs, you know, Saquon Barkley broke
just about every rushing record. He did not break the
postseason rush record, which is still held by John Riggins.
That year six hundred and ten yards in one postseason.
That still stands. Good luck anybody chasing that down, especially
if Saquon's not going to do it off of the
year that he just had. That's the Hogs. That's jo Jacoby.
(19:40):
That's also the great John Riggins. A year later, in
his mid thirties, John Riggins rushes for twenty four rushing touchdowns.
Now he's a great and belongs in the Hall of Fame.
That's also jo Jacoby and the Hogs allowing for something
like that to occur at an advanced age. In nineteen
eighty seven, Timmy Smith broke the Super Bowl record for
rush yards in a game. That's Jojacoby and the Hogs
(20:03):
in the same game. You guys are gonna talk to
Doug Williams, which is the greatest quarter that's ever been
played by any team. Eighteen plays, thirty five points, three
hundred and fifty yards of offense that'll never get touched.
Speaker 2 (20:17):
That's Jojacoby and the Hogs too.
Speaker 6 (20:19):
That's the whole operation.
Speaker 5 (20:20):
In nineteen ninety one, they played nineteen games, they gave.
Speaker 6 (20:24):
Up nine sacks.
Speaker 5 (20:26):
Nine This isn't even the original Hogs anymore. This is
Jojacoby in a completely new set of players, but they're
doing this with it's ridiculous that he's not in the
Hall of Fame. He in four Super Bowls never gave
up a sack and in fourteen playoff games.
Speaker 2 (20:42):
Gave up two.
Speaker 6 (20:43):
We're talking about the best of the best.
Speaker 2 (20:45):
And he's playing Lowns, Taylor and Regie White. He's playing
the best players about once a year.
Speaker 7 (20:51):
Yes, yes, it don't make no sense.
Speaker 3 (20:54):
I mean, and it's honest to say because and I'm
glad we're making this case for Joe, because I feel
like this is something that we can talk about from
a lot of guys. There's a lot of guys that
when we when we grew up watching, whether they was
you know, skilled guys or not, that I feel like
don't get enough credit. So I honestly think it's something
broken with the Hall of Fame. I guess with guys
(21:15):
getting voted in or whoever is the guy that's supposed
to be you know, a popularity content, and that's wrong,
don't because when it comes to just the peoples alone,
you have to reward these people, many people for it
hard made it through certain circumstances to be a professional player,
than to go out there and play on the top,
top tier level and don't get the credit for when
they leave the game, because that's what you want as
(21:36):
a player. You want to be recognized for the good
or bad you then in then why not recognize the
past anyway? Because these guys didn't have chance to make
eighty million dollars when you get that HOF on your name,
that gives them revenue that comes in differently.
Speaker 2 (21:52):
Like chose to pay hummage to these guys.
Speaker 4 (21:54):
This is more serious to them than I think it
is to some guys that played in our time, because
if you win lose a jow, you was rewarded in
some form of fashion. They were rewarded by being remembered,
and the Hall of Fame is about remembering people.
Speaker 1 (22:08):
How we going to remember the Holls without Joe Jacob.
Speaker 6 (22:10):
It's really interesting.
Speaker 5 (22:11):
The Redskins were dynasty back in the teen eighties and
they were really led by this offensive line. But you know,
think about how many players from those years actually got
into the Hall of Fame. It's actually quite small. Like
Joe Gibbs had coaches in John Riggins, but he only
played in the early stretches of it. He didn't play
in those other suits. The last three Super Bowls. He
wasn't even people playing of those teams.
Speaker 6 (22:30):
Art Monk got in, Darryl Green got in. That's it,
that's it. That's it.
Speaker 5 (22:33):
The Patriots who have been a dynasty here up through
the Brady Belichick era.
Speaker 6 (22:38):
Same thing's going to happen.
Speaker 5 (22:39):
There's only going to be a select few of these
guys that actually get into the Hall of Fame. They're
going to be having these discussions about some of those
players too. Their team dominance is being overlooked for the
sole specialties that the players brought to it. Like Dexter
Manley could be in the Hall of Fame.
Speaker 4 (22:55):
Easy right, Mark Mark Moseley won AMVP is akier.
Speaker 5 (23:00):
Man Mosley could be in the Hall of Fame. Gary
Clark could be in the Hall of Fame. But because
of their team dominance and because they were a humble
team actually with the few exceptions of the personalities.
Speaker 4 (23:11):
They need you, they needed me you played.
Speaker 2 (23:15):
On those teams, I would have sold. I would have lost.
Speaker 1 (23:21):
I would have sold us though.
Speaker 4 (23:23):
I would I would have sold my teammates. Because that's
why I'm wanting about London all the time. Because I
appreciate the value of work that he did and for
him not we're talking about two of the best. No,
I ain't gonna say two of I'm gonna go out
of the line and say, right now, jo Jacobe and
London Fletcher out of two best one A and one
be best undrafted players all time, they got the number
(23:47):
one into best undrafted players all time.
Speaker 1 (23:50):
It's interesting talking about this because I think it highlights
a problem. It it's a problem in the NFL. You
were talking about the Hall of Fame. But I do
think like it's really hard to on a five offensive
line play and so even when you're looking at the media,
for example, like you're relying on another person's perspective to
inform your perspective, especially if you're a media member, you
know what I mean, And so I look at him
like so today, I'm sure, I'm sure we can all
(24:12):
name the top five running backs, probably named the top
five art receivers. Could you name the top five we
are analysts for a team, could you name the top
five offensive lineman in the NFL? I could, Yeah, you could,
But can the average fan through that because there's no
fantasy football for them?
Speaker 3 (24:25):
But also, but I also feel I ain't mean to
cut you off for you always Uh No, honestly, I
just feel like it also shure relies in the hands
of someone who covers us. Yes, don't get me wrong,
I have nothing against the media. I'm now a part
of the media. I just feel like there's conflict of
interest at somebodas because you get some some guy like
(24:48):
you say, who's who's soft spoken, so that that beat
writer might feel like, you know, he never talked to me,
So I'm not voting.
Speaker 7 (24:54):
Fum, you know, and vice versa. I've seen it done.
Speaker 3 (24:57):
I've seen a guy put front page news that I
was a bus if I even got a chance to
speak to him because I couldn't speak to him, you
know what I mean, because he just had a bias
about me. So when it comes to you know, rewarding me,
I shouldn't be rewarded by someone who's writing about us.
I should be rewarded by the league that I'm in
and the players and the coaches that I either play
widow play it again.
Speaker 5 (25:17):
I will say to that, like of the people who
are in the room doing the voting, they're typically not
the hot take artists who go in those directions with
their careers.
Speaker 6 (25:26):
That said it.
Speaker 5 (25:27):
Really it takes the right advocates on behalf of the team,
and clearly this team has not had And I'm not
you know, I'm not being dismissive of the people who
do it because it's a hard job. There are people
like jo Jacobe. It's absurd that he's not in the
Hall of Fame. Therefore they're not being advocated for properly.
Because the case that we're telling here, I could go
(25:49):
on and on about this. He is singularly one of
the greatest offensive linemen in the history of the NFL.
And I would defy anybody in that room in Canton
to argue with me about which is why I say,
tell me why you're not putting it in.
Speaker 1 (26:02):
So you know, it's a problem.
Speaker 6 (26:04):
I know about him, it's a problem.
Speaker 4 (26:06):
Then it's the problem in newness and forgetting about the past.
The problem is the process in order to get in
because yeah, it's a little bit of both.
Speaker 2 (26:16):
It meets the world's Clyde.
Speaker 3 (26:18):
There's so many guys that and I don't want to get,
you know, too far ahead, But we talk about this
all the time with receivers. We name names that Jimmy Smiths,
the Urban friars. These are names that you probably, Oh, man,
I forgot about those guys. The number speaks for themself,
but field stuff, but even.
Speaker 1 (26:35):
The numbers by itself. He played the small market.
Speaker 3 (26:36):
Yeah, but I understanding. But I'm saying, like, when it
comes down to just what did I do? Forget the market,
Forget the notoriety that I get. Yeah, market that I YEA.
When it's all said and done, You're gonna compare my
stats to everybody else that's up here.
Speaker 1 (26:49):
What did I do?
Speaker 2 (26:50):
I get enough credit? Should I play? Should I be
up there with?
Speaker 4 (26:52):
You know what Jimmy got in got in coming with
the two guys were talking about he wasn't he lowly drafted?
It's I'm about that. We didn't put you on a
pedestal then, but we aint gonna put.
Speaker 3 (27:04):
You on one now because you you lift these guys
up to make your brand what it is. He was playing, well,
we had good games or big games, prime time games.
I'm pretty sure you know the Jojo Kobe's of the
world who played like you just said this stats are
ridiculous to speaks for himself, regardless if he's an office
alignment or not. Regardless if you have an office alignment already,
that's supposed to be the spokesperson, which I never heard
(27:26):
anything like that in my life. If you put up,
if you put in the work and you went out
there and you consider it the best at what you do,
you should get together.
Speaker 1 (27:34):
I think that's I think that's the I think that's
the problem here with Joe. If I was going to
kind of try to pinpoint it, right, yeah, because he's
playing in an era where he was not the guy
on the pedestal, right, it was what's his name from Cincinnati, Munos.
Munos was the guy, right, And so that's where it's
so funny with off If you look at the first
ballot guys. I'm not saying Jojokobe should have been the
first ballot guy, but when you look at those guys,
it's all tackles that define an era. Your Jackie Slator
(27:57):
is your Munos, is your Joe Thomas. I love Joe,
but no, but he was he was the best tackle
of his era. They won nothing, but he didn't win anything.
But it's like ten was just talking about individual performance, right,
And so I think that's the other thing here that
that's tough with Joe is like he's there's all these
other great players, right, and you can't put everybody in,
but he's also part of a great team. Yeah, and
(28:18):
it does run I think too.
Speaker 2 (28:22):
Can I ask you something else?
Speaker 1 (28:23):
No goodness, do you.
Speaker 3 (28:26):
Think that this thing will have to be changed so later?
Far the Hall of Fame, I don't like it. It's
that they don't want a lot in, but it's so
many guys.
Speaker 2 (28:34):
That the process has to change.
Speaker 1 (28:35):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (28:36):
I think you've been around a long time following this game.
I just I'm wonder that you guys question that.
Speaker 6 (28:41):
I don't think it's going to change. I don't know.
Speaker 5 (28:45):
And again, like as someone who's you know, never been
a player, and you know, wants to think that we
know the game as well and are kind of stewards
of it, you know, caretakers of it. That's how I
look at it. From my position. I'm a caretaker of
telling the story of this team, and I hope people
value that, even though I never put.
Speaker 6 (29:02):
On the uniforms like you guys did.
Speaker 5 (29:04):
And you know, so I think, like I'm protective of
the idea that people in my position who cover this
for a living and follow it really should have a
voice in the room.
Speaker 6 (29:14):
About it.
Speaker 5 (29:15):
That said, I do believe more ex players should have
a say and maybe of equal weight to the media
or the advocates for the teams to do so because
they played and they know so when you sit there
and you go Reggie White, Randy White and Laurens Taylor
and Bruce Smith are saying he's one of the best players. Ever,
(29:37):
how is not not convincing you. Maybe they should be
in the room. Rip Reggie Waite, obviously, but they should
be in the room saying, wait a minute here, why
don't we speak up. We're wearing the jackets we played
against this guy. Maybe we should have a vote too,
so I could see we're an expansion of voices in
the rooms, specifically from the Hall of famers themselves and
(30:00):
ex players who you know still following are very close
to the game, have a voice in the room about this,
because this would stop I think some of these types
of players, especially in this case, from being overlooked.
Speaker 4 (30:10):
What can action is the Hogs you said, maybe they
don't want to do it because it's a name the
group and they already got a representative, but while you
got a.
Speaker 5 (30:18):
Couple, actually the you know, the hog Ets are in
the Hall of Fame too.
Speaker 6 (30:23):
Like great fans of all time.
Speaker 2 (30:25):
Let's talk about let's talk about some more game groups.
Speaker 4 (30:28):
The Steel Curtain, multiple guys in there, the Purple p Peters,
Minnesota Vikers.
Speaker 2 (30:37):
Yeah, I think so.
Speaker 6 (30:38):
Then you give Marshall Allen Patrick both in the.
Speaker 4 (30:41):
About there, so we can go through these these names
of these rememberant groups.
Speaker 1 (30:46):
But out of all those groups.
Speaker 2 (30:48):
This is the only group with one represented.
Speaker 5 (30:50):
Well, I mean, the Steel Curtains got how many six guys,
jackab Jack Lambert, all of them, almost all of me,
Joe Green, right, all of them, right, And so in
the case of the Hogs, it is kind of absurd
actually that there is one that is in the Hall
of Fame. It kind of doesn't really make a lot
of sense.
Speaker 1 (31:06):
Yeah, yeah, it's interesting because, like you know, when you're
doing research, and again, like this is maybe because you know,
Bram said, make an argument as to why not. Right,
one of the things that I heard was that they
protected him a lot in the system. Right, he had
tight end help, back help, They ran them all the time.
They kind of insulated them, you know what I mean.
And and it's funny to think of it.
Speaker 6 (31:24):
La It's Taylor both times you might get help, but.
Speaker 1 (31:27):
We can laugh, but we can laugh about it. But
like that's the thing. And then you compare them to Thorpe,
the other guy that I mentioned, right, and both parcels
comes out and says, oh, he's the best tackle that
else had to play against. Like it's it's just a
different perspective. And I think that's why this is so hard,
is it's so subjective. And I think even good players
will disagree about what what is good, you know, like
you could you would like the best player I played
(31:47):
against is probably not someone anybody's ever heard of. Yeah right,
he just gave me fits. Yeah, probably same with you, right.
Speaker 2 (31:52):
Yeah, I think that my talent didn't fit to check
this person or this.
Speaker 1 (31:57):
Or the scheme didn't fit that person or whatever it is.
You'll have to.
Speaker 5 (32:00):
Have the career longevity and the stats to prove that
they're part of this.
Speaker 4 (32:08):
But he told you he oughtic to count a tree
a play this steel ran today.
Speaker 1 (32:12):
But then but then the coach gets credit for the
schematic element of it.
Speaker 6 (32:17):
In the Hall of Fame put.
Speaker 1 (32:20):
And I think, and I think, I think Jacoby deserves
to be in there. But I think, when if I'm
in the if you're in the room, you just say, oh, well,
like there's other way other people deserve his You.
Speaker 2 (32:28):
Have to play devins avoc. Yeah, you have to do it.
Speaker 5 (32:30):
Yeah, this has happened with other groups, Like Joe Delamlaiir
just went into the Hall of Fame. I don't know
five years ago. He's maybe the best offensive lineman from
the Electric Company. That's OJ Simpson behind the Buffalo billby
offense and all those, Well, nobody knows who he is anymore.
It went along so long. This is what's happened to
Joe Jacoby. People forget how great the Hogs.
Speaker 6 (32:49):
Were, how great he was.
Speaker 5 (32:51):
So when I say Joe Delamalair, nobody knows who that is.
He was the best offensive lineman on the Bills.
Speaker 6 (32:56):
But because O. J.
Speaker 5 (32:57):
Simpson was so magnificent, they thought it would him, not them.
Speaker 4 (33:01):
Right, Yeah, but credit has to be handed out because
it's us correct. But people try to make football so
singular and it has more at the least than any
other sport playing at one time.
Speaker 1 (33:13):
You would try to make a singular.
Speaker 5 (33:15):
Think about this right now, like the Eagles have the
best offensive line in football? Was that all Saquon Barkley
last year. Of course not, of course not.
Speaker 2 (33:23):
They didn't have that line. Half of that number.
Speaker 5 (33:26):
Posted last year would not be behind a ridiculously bad
offensive line.
Speaker 6 (33:30):
Never would have happened.
Speaker 1 (33:31):
Right when this goes back to my other point, like,
could you name the top four tackles in the NFL
right now?
Speaker 4 (33:35):
Yeah, Peanos, you got Suol, You've got Trent Williams, a
lot of, you got my lot of and you got
Lanz Justin and you've got Thomson Lane Johnson.
Speaker 1 (33:43):
Right. Yeah, So those are the four that come up.
And of those guys that when they decide or when
it's time for them to go on the Hall of Fame,
how it goes according to.
Speaker 5 (33:51):
History Johnson, It's a good one because the Eagles are
going to get two guaranteed. Jason Kelsey's gonna go in
the Hall of Fame and Lane Johnson's they too.
Speaker 1 (34:00):
Well, centers have a weird history of not going you
know what I'm saying.
Speaker 6 (34:04):
But Jason Kese so incredibly popular, He's That.
Speaker 1 (34:08):
Goes back to but we could talk about this all
day long. Bram. Thank you so much for joining us.
You did a great pitch for it. Thank you so much.
And now we're going to bring in somebody who's played
with him, talk about the man himself. So we'll get
that going, Brian, way to sail it, Brian, Yeah, Brian
made a case. Baby. All right. Now we're back and
(34:31):
Doug Williams joins us. The man that needs no introduction.
And it's so fun to have guys like Doug in
the building because we can talk to Bram, who's watching
team as little kid. But to have a guy who
played with joj and had a really historic career in
his own right, he protected. It's awesome for you to
be here, Doug. Thanks for joining us, Thanks for having me.
So yeah, we're talking about Joe, and if you so
(34:55):
for someone who's never seen Joe play, like, I'm too young,
I never saw him playing, but I watch a little
bit of film getting ready for this, but it's all
that grainny, cut up stuff. How would you describe Jojia Kocher?
Speaker 8 (35:03):
You know what, when I first got here in eighty six, man,
I knew I was coming to a team with a
great offensive line. And then I got a chance when
I first got here just to set back and just
watch guys move around. You look at Joe. Joe's the
big old guy. You know, wasn't the most athletic guy,
but he got the job done. You know, you didn't
beat him in side, You didn't beat him outside because
(35:23):
of his side. You look at the guy that was
undrafted and that says a lot too. Man come in
and then become that starter man. And when I got
an opportunity to play my backside was something I know
did worry about.
Speaker 4 (35:38):
You're right, because you know it's a very intimate relationship
between left tackle or the quarterback, like for you to
back up all those times to pass the ball and
never think twice. And we're talking about some of the
best pass rushers this game he ever saw. We talking
about Redjie Whye, we talking about Lornce Taylor. We're talking
about the highest of competition. How did he gain your
(36:00):
trust from the first mini camp? And did it just
you just say, you know what this guy got this
let me push the ball down.
Speaker 8 (36:06):
I think coming in already a veteran, it was my
job to gain their confidence. And that's what I did.
You know, wase or not it was. Joel was not
as Mark Made, was not as Russ anybody that was
up front. You know, I had trust him because the
way they had played earlier. You know, I had a
chance to see him play before I got here, and
I think that's made for it. But to see those
guys play at the level that they played at and
(36:28):
see Joel, yeah, you know, play at the level that.
Speaker 1 (36:30):
He played at.
Speaker 8 (36:31):
Joe is the only guy that, you know, the time
I played here with with Coach Gibbs, the only guy
Coach Gibb would never put a play in that you
couldn't block it. But he was the only guy that
he left single handed with Lawrence Taylor. Yeah, the only
guy I've seen him without the tight end on his side.
Speaker 1 (36:48):
Yes, yeah, so this is everything. Well, it's crazy because
like when you hear people talk about him like, oh,
we got all this title help but didn't get it
from the horses, get it from reading from reading through it,
it's like, oh, that's the criticism. But like obviously you
know that's a different story.
Speaker 8 (37:04):
But quite naturally, we had offense where guy moved left,
moved right. But if there was time when it was
just him and Lawrence over there and nobody worried about that,
I didn't. I mean, you know, because what Joe had
did early and I believed in Joe.
Speaker 3 (37:17):
So tell me from all these years, if you just
watching certain guys getting the credit, who didn't get the credit,
and some of the guys who've got in there early,
especially nowadays, I'm kind of I scratched my head when
I see all these young guys is getting pushed in
the front.
Speaker 2 (37:30):
What what was it or what is.
Speaker 3 (37:31):
It that we can't sit here and say that you know,
Joe's not in yet.
Speaker 8 (37:35):
Well, you know, I said this a long time ago.
You know, when you think about the offensive line that
we had here for a decade or more and you
only got one guy in there and Rush Griham, there's
nowhere in the world when you see other teams got
two and three guys in the Hall of Fame that
we should not have at least two guys in the
Hall of Fame's and for Joe not to be in there,
I think it's a travesty.
Speaker 1 (37:56):
Yeah, it's a great point. Brem said something similar, and
I think it's like, again, like, how do you capture
how good the group was? Because you know, we.
Speaker 4 (38:04):
Talked about the name the group, we talked about the
steel curtain, we talk about the perfect people eaters, and
usually when you in as a group you just go one, two, three, four,
like they just continue to put you in. But this
seems to be the group that constance get overlooked. And
I don't know if it's a franchise thing. I don't
know if it's a newness thing, because you know, the
one thing we can generationally do is forget about the past,
(38:27):
not unmistakely, but forget about the pass.
Speaker 8 (38:30):
I think that you know, it's been a long time ago,
thirty some years ago, and I think that's unfortunate. But
they all got they also got to recognize what that
offensive line did, and especially what Joe did at the
left tackle. You know, we talk about Hall of famers,
a guy that played for ten years or more at
left tackle and did it. Well, yeah, you can't overlook him.
Speaker 3 (38:49):
Brown say that something about us pushing that more too? Yeah,
do you think as an organization we can do a
better job with the gym kind of trying to put
it back on the forefront when it comes to just
you know, every year, like hey, you know, we got
you got guys like Gary, you got guys like b Mitch,
you got guys like London and Joe. You know, I
think I'm not sure how how far does it go
when it comes to saying that you got like one
(39:09):
more year before you can just you know, before you
can get in up.
Speaker 2 (39:15):
Said something about it.
Speaker 3 (39:16):
He's senior category, So we almost to the point of
where they're going to just forget him about them.
Speaker 8 (39:23):
Yeah, and then he come up in the senior You know,
you got so many guys that's in that senior category
from way back when.
Speaker 1 (39:29):
Yeah, And I think that's the problem.
Speaker 8 (39:31):
But you know, if Joe's in the senior category, they
should put him in the front of the line.
Speaker 1 (39:34):
Yeah.
Speaker 4 (39:35):
I think that kind of messes up because you know,
when you get the hall that yellow jacket, it gives
you money making power.
Speaker 1 (39:41):
You know that you that some guys in the past
probably never have.
Speaker 4 (39:44):
And to rob him up there trying to do it
in his senior years, I think it's the worst thing
about it to me.
Speaker 1 (39:51):
And let me ask you this, did y'all y'all ran
the counter tray, right? Yes? We did, all right?
Speaker 2 (39:55):
And he's known for that counter trade a play that
we run today.
Speaker 8 (39:59):
Let me tell you, and I'm telling people talk about
the Super Bowl that he played in. We ran the
sixty counter trade man Jojakoba came around the side block
steal this guy inside. Not a soul touched Timmis Smith,
not one. So I'm talking about completely wife. When he
broke the record round completely wiped it out. You know
(40:20):
that that in itself says what Jacoba is all about it.
If you don't believe me, go get that film and
you'll see against Denver that when he came around pulling
Now we pulled it from his left tackle, coming all
the way to the right side and steal that whole
side in.
Speaker 1 (40:34):
So obviously he's a great player, right, You know, like,
how was he as a teammate? How was he? Man?
Speaker 8 (40:39):
Let me tell you can't get a better teammate. All
those guys, all those guys man that you know, nobody
that you couldn't sit down and talk to about anything.
You know, Jojakoba to me, gonna always be somebody especially
tell you why Because when I was dragging my leg
off the field of the Super Bowl, Joja Kobe walked
up to me and he told me. He said, hey,
Doug William He said, white, green and yellow. He said,
(41:01):
I don't care what they say, you our quarterback. You know,
to me, I thought that was especially in that moment
in that and that heat of that moment.
Speaker 1 (41:10):
Right cool man. Yeah, and so like as it's like,
you know, like obviously like on the field, he was
a certain way, probably like a pretty rough and tumble
kind of guy or you know what guy there was
talk about men. They was fist.
Speaker 8 (41:28):
But you know what the good thing about man, they
believe that they can do anything that Joel and Bus
asked him to do.
Speaker 1 (41:34):
They can move them.
Speaker 6 (41:35):
They feel like they can move the mountain if you
have to block it.
Speaker 8 (41:38):
Like you know, they came to heather Man and they
didn't talk into huddle. They listened to their quarterback and
when they got what they had to do and they
went to the line, they was ready to go.
Speaker 1 (41:48):
And then I think the other question is like, you know,
like do you have anything off the field, because you
know they had that little tent outside where the hangout.
Speaker 6 (41:55):
I wouldn't no, they had how right here? We wasn't here.
Speaker 8 (42:02):
We was at a place down on the other side
of the airport right there. And the guy who kept
up with the field, they had a house. He was
the guy to go get the beer and stuff like that.
Speaker 1 (42:11):
So there was an actual house, yeah, where to keep
on the linemolders.
Speaker 6 (42:16):
They had sofa chairs everything. And then yeah, but I
wasn't invited.
Speaker 1 (42:20):
I would say that.
Speaker 2 (42:22):
Remember you want three hundred pounds, you can't come in.
Speaker 8 (42:24):
No, it was on the one guy invited that didn't
play offensive line tight end Rick I was rigging were quarterback.
Speaker 1 (42:32):
He can't go in there.
Speaker 6 (42:33):
Man in the world, Joe and me, a real was
gonna go in there. Wasn't invited.
Speaker 1 (42:39):
Listen, I understand they stay no mad, but but you.
Speaker 8 (42:41):
Know what, that's the respect that everybody had for each other. Yeah,
that was they click and you had the post, you
had the fun bunch. Everybody had their little click man. Yeah,
and they believed in each other and they got together
and they had fun and they blocked people to death.
Speaker 1 (42:54):
They did what they was asked to do. That's right.
And so two things and then we can answer this
question again other what made him special, like as a person,
and then why do you think you should be in
the Hall of Fame?
Speaker 8 (43:05):
Well, as a person, Joe was was a down nerves guy.
Speaker 1 (43:08):
Talk to anybody got along.
Speaker 8 (43:10):
You just said, you hit the nail on the nail
on the head. Nothing milicious about Joe at all, nothing
at all. And the reason why I say he should
be in the Hall of Fame. I think you look
look across the board and you see some of the
guys that and I'm not taking anything away from the
guys that are going in there. Yeah, but but there's
no way in the word that Joe Jake Za Kobe
(43:31):
should not be in the NFL Football Hall of Fame.
Speaker 1 (43:34):
I don't know if there's a better endorsement than that, Like,
you know, Teddy, you were talking about this, like how
you want the players to do it. Yeah, I can't
think of a better way to kind of get that
endorsement from a guy who played with them, Yeah, and
say that like he deserves us, you know what I mean,
Like you cut out all the media, the personality being.
Speaker 8 (43:51):
Deserved, deserve halland you know, and you're talking about a
guy that you know, like I tell told people all
the time, we're all getting in out of twilight. Yeah,
and this is a great time for Joe Jacoby to
get it flowers man to be celebrated and not just
get this flower he deserves it. Yes, yes, motion, I
think that's how you got to look at it.
Speaker 1 (44:09):
Yeah. In addition to jo Jacoby, Yeah, we got we
got new news too. Yeah, it deserves me in the
Hall of Fame. I also think it's important that Doug
Williams gets recognized. Ye I'm saying, and this is a
little bit surprised, So I know you don't like this
kind of stuff, but there's a new new thing in
the Hall of Fame historical contribution and obviously your resume
is tremendous, bawls, championship games, all that.
Speaker 4 (44:29):
Oh no, we're talking about HBCU talking about you are
fit from jayde Daniels to Michael Vicks to the random
cunning Hams of.
Speaker 1 (44:37):
The world because he was the first. Oh yes, we're.
Speaker 4 (44:39):
Talking about the way you nurtured football throughout Louisiana and
this area.
Speaker 2 (44:46):
Tell him what we got.
Speaker 1 (44:47):
No, I'm just saying, like, that's that's that's you said
it because I look at I look at again, Like
football is a game, obviously, but there's sometimes something more
than Again, some people bigger than the game, and the
moments that Joe Jacob be talking about, like doesn't matter
what color you are, you're on a quarterback and that
starts a whole generation of young people. Yeah, looking and
saying I can do that, I can do that, and
I think that that's extremely special. On Joe. Joe, I'm
(45:10):
sorry I put you on the spot. Yeah, but it's
but it's cool to be in the same room as you.
Know what I'm saying, it's a good ambush.
Speaker 4 (45:19):
And what we're saying is like you, I being considered
for Historical Tribune to the NFL Hall of Fame.
Speaker 1 (45:27):
Yeah, which is which is unbelievable, but it's deserving. It's deserving,
most definitely. So I know you got a lot of
stuff going on, Doug. You just came in from practice
watching players, mentoring people. So thank you so much for
joining us. Really appreciate it'spuchal for us. Thanks for talking
about Joe, and thanks for being you and being around
the building.
Speaker 8 (45:44):
Appreciate it. It is my pleasure. But John could have told me.
Speaker 4 (45:49):
We just got the news, and I told him, we
want to be the first to let you know this news.
So congratulation, especially knowing that you also and I hope
they do it at these same am exact time with
you and jo Jakobe because that'll really make it special
for Washington. And congratulations you have and will and I
considered to be a Hall of Famer, very.
Speaker 1 (46:10):
Soon, sir, thank you, Sir. I appreciate that anytime
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