Chase Dimond: $150M Email Marketing That Scales Ecommerce in 2025 | Commerce Vanguard

Chase Dimond is one of the most recognized names in e-commerce email marketing — with campaigns and strategies that have influenced hundreds of brands.

In this Commerce Vanguard session, Chase breaks down how to build segmentation, automation, and flows that actually convert. He explains why blasting the same message to every subscriber fails, how to differentiate new vs. repeat customers, and the essential flows every brand needs before scaling with ads.

Hosted by Nick Synov — founder of SYNOV Agency (industrial-grade ecommerce) and SMTTR (AI hardware / GPU distribution), delivering contrarian strategies for brands scaling digital commerce.

Get an E-commerce Audit → https://synov-systems.com/
Subscribe for exclusive insights → https://commercevanguard.com/

Episode Transcript

(00:09):
approach with email marketing, which
was as holistic and
also human focused.
As previous speaker Daniel told us, he was
creating the brand, which was coming from customer.
This was the same way Chase was doing his
approach in email marketing.
So we started using his approach

(00:30):
to grow and from all the
market players, all different email marketing
guys, his approach is was the best one
that helped us really to grow to
our our brands, to eight figures and
even nine figures.
So I'm very happy to introduce
you our next speaker.
Chase diamond.

(00:52):
First time in our community.
And I appreciate a lot
that you have joined us.
Uh, Chase, good to be here with you.
All right, man.
Yeah, it's it's a great pleasure to
have you here.
Okay, Chase.
Um, we have about 45
minutes, and, uh, I know you have tons

(01:13):
of information to share, and our, you know, catching
headlines about how you made 150
neurons revenue and sent
1 billion emails.
Uh, you know, what we
want to do in advertising?
People were usually, like, commenting, like,
okay, so it was a lot of spam and,
you know, like crazy guys.
But I know you're doing really good emails that

(01:35):
people love to read.
So maybe can you tell us?
Little bit more how to be so
focused to your customers, how to how to create
this kind of content.
It's not really a logical way because I know
it's, you know, kind of emotional on one part
and also logical.
So do you have your own
strategy like process that you can

(01:57):
really share from your or just about you
as a talk voice
in email marketing?
Yeah.
No, absolutely.
And I'm excited to be here.
You know, I think with email, um, I think
what people get wrong, right, is they just try
to push sales and discounts down people's throats
through no end.
Right?
They'll send daily emails or tons of emails and

(02:18):
just push 10% off.
20% off.
Bye bye bye bye bye.
Right.
Fake scarcity, fake ers and people
you know can read through the lines right there
over the BS.
They don't want to just be sold to all
the time.
Right.
So I think our approach really stems from giving
as much value as possible and really meeting our
subscribers and our customers where they are

(02:38):
in their journey.
So the person that is new to your list
shouldn't be receiving the same content that someone has
bought from you 4 or 5 times as your
VIP customer.
Right?
So I think like from the very top, how
you acquire your subscribers all the way through the
types of content you send them needs
to be differentiated.
There's not like a one size fits all.
Um, and whether someone's bought from you or not,

(03:00):
you need to treat them differently.
So say if someone's ever bought from you.
You might want to show them testimonials and reviews
from first time buyers, so that way they can
envision themselves in those shoes, right?
You can speak to where they are.
I was like you, Nick.
You know, before I try an X, Y, and
Z product, right?
You're wearing Lacoste here before I tried Lacoste shirt.
Man, I was stuck with all these other shirts

(03:21):
that shrunk every time I washed them.
You know, every single time I wore them.
And whenever I sweat, they really start to stink.
Right.
So really, being able to speak to the person
where they are.
It's so important.
Email right now, in my opinion, is the best
channel for that.
I think Facebook and the products used to be
the best when there's a lot more data available,
but if they're like iOS 14,

(03:41):
I was 14.5.
Um, all the Cambridge Analytica
scandals that happened.
The data available on meta is good, but not
nearly as good as it used to be.
And email.
Now, my opinion is that central hub in that
database where you know what people have
viewed, what they've added to cart, what they've
purchased, you know, where they've dropped off, what emails

(04:02):
they've read, you know, a bunch of things about
where they're located.
So in my opinion, being really
kind of intentional about the data that sits within
your CRM, you know, the the settling account or
the Clavijo account or the MailChimp or
whatever you're using.
You have to really build out the segments that
understand the customer profile.
So that was a while.
Where do you want me to kind of focus

(04:23):
more in?
There's a lot obviously, we can dive into.
Yeah, it's a lot.
And usually I want to share.
First misconception I hear all the time.
Uh, you know, getting sometimes I
also speak to just starting
e-commerce founders.
They never think even that email is
a big thing.
You know, they always want to go to the

(04:44):
drugstore, which is metal, or Google, you know, with
all ads.
I compare them to drugs.
It's pretty similar.
Like, you cannot stop if you start using them.
So organic channels are much better.
And like yes, firstly you need the audience.
So you need somehow to get them from ads
and then collect your email list.
You know it's you need to use it first.
But then like you know just focusing there

(05:07):
is very important because if you
uh, you're like in
2023 and 24, I cannot
see you really scaling with
ads if you don't know how to sell the
second the third time.
And it's only possible with emails, of course, with
text messages at some point, but never
to be spammy.

(05:27):
First you need to create this kind of approach.
So when you follow zero in emails
and start thinking how to grow, the main
misconception for them, it just they look
at it linearly.
So they just, you know, seeds
like at least.
And they send to all the lists all the
time, like the same emails and usually say, okay,
I see sales only from discounted emails like you

(05:49):
told at the beginning.
So this is the first misconception.
It doesn't work like this.
So even, even even the basic information, if
they don't click on email, they won't buy.
It's technically not possible if they don't treat and
click on link and on your website
they cannot buy.
It's not possible technically.
So first you need in order to grow this
audience this way.
So they will read your engage with you and

(06:11):
then they will follow your website.
And they also need to be engaged
on the website.
So it's all about how you do all your
content, you know.
So can you focus us here how the
small, you know, e-commerce guy who just started
mainly these several products, it's best like, you know,
sometimes it's even in one product like some
I won't speak that this is a mistake.

(06:32):
Just go and catch trendy problems.
But let's imagine they have a very good
one product or several products?
Not much.
What's the best way to grow your segments?
You know, and really focusing, for example.
Clever and start, you know, growing this machine into
some it's a step by step funnel
logically or differently.

(06:54):
Yeah.
All right.
So there's a lot I want to talk about.
So to your point right.
You have to drive traffic.
Let's assume you have the traffic whether it's from
affiliates or meta or
organic SEO.
Right.
Influencers you have traffic.
That's step one.
So step two is we have to capitalize on
this traffic.
And with that right, we have to
start collecting emails.
And there's a few ways we do it.

(07:15):
One is through a popup right.
It takes over the center part of the screen
or portion of the screen.
The other one is called a flyout.
It typically comes from like the bottom
right hand side.
It's like a little mini opt in form.
People can add their email at checkout or if
they make a purchase, right.
That's how we collect it.
But what what do we want to collect?
Right.
So number number one, it's in
our forms right.

(07:36):
We want to try to understand other than email
you know gender.
What are they shopping for.
What are they looking for.
So that way as quickly as possible we can
personalize their experience.
So say you're an apparel company right?
You're selling this t shirt you sell for men
and women.
You sell a bunch of different clothing things.
If we can learn who someone is, whether they're
male or female, and what they're looking for, maybe

(07:58):
I'm looking for myself, or maybe I'm looking for
my wife or my brother or my dad.
Then, from the very beginning with the welcome series
for non buyers, we can start personalizing that.
So, Nick, I'll just say you're it's you.
You're looking for yourself, right?
So you're a man looking for.
You know yourself.
You might be looking for men's t shirts or
men's jeans.
We would then show you those items that are

(08:20):
specifically for men's, and we would want to highlight
things like bestsellers, the things that
are popular, right.
And other people like them and they're popular.
There's a chance to that.
You're going to like them.
We're going to have a lot of reviews that
can speak to you where you are.
So that's number one is with our forms, we
want to learn as much as possible about
the person.
And then with that, right, like how do we

(08:40):
enrich your basically your profile.
How do we enrich Nick's profile within our CRM
throughout the funnel.
The next one is behavioral tagging.
So what are you clicking on on the website?
What are you doing on the website?
What are you doing within the email?
Are you clicking on the header navigation
that says bestsellers?
Are you clicking on sale?
Right.
If you're clicking on sale, maybe we do need

(09:00):
to show you discounts throughout the funnel.
Maybe you're a bargain shopper and you're only going
to cover if you
click on discounts.
Um, what links and buttons are you clicking on?
Like what types of call to actions are working
on you, and what are the categories in the
products and the pages that you viewed?
Maybe right now you're in the market for t
shirts and you don't really care about shorts or
sandals or shoes.
So we should show you more of the things

(09:21):
that you're interested in.
Let's show you the best six or the best
ten t shirts that you might be interested in.
And then we'll pay attention entirely
throughout your funnel.
You know, what are the things that you added
to cart?
What were the things that you left
behind at checkout?
Are there any patterns that we should
notice between this?
You have three different white t shirts or three
different black seizures.

(09:42):
Um, you know, should we try to sell you
a bundle of those three at a, at a
lesser price?
So instead of paying $100 for the
three stained shirts.
Should we try to show you a bundle at
80 bucks if you buy that in the next
24 hours?
Um, you know, where are you based, right?
Maybe you're based.
I'm in Orange County, California.
It's always warm here.
Maybe I should show you short sleeved t shirts
versus long sleeved t shirts.

(10:02):
Right.
Um, so we're just trying to understand, based off
of what you're doing at scale, the patterns in
which every time we collect your email and collect
the data about you, we should send you.
Right.
So that's I think, the first point, right.
Does that make sense so far?
Well, you know, it's very hard to understand at
first point.
But I always also say like behind

(10:24):
every one case as a customer, when you try
to look at him, you know, as he told
checkout location and for example, okay, this guy, he's
from Orange County, California, and maybe we know what
he was looking at the website.
Every case is just one case.
He you got.
But for real, there is much more
on the website.
People that never arrive to your popup and

(10:44):
something so and if you have two cases, three
cases, it's much more people behind this.
And when you optimize the funnel, the flow or
website on this and you don't just stick with
catalog based websites, but you really think about the
customer, you can really develop the funnel and then
then sell.
And usually as what I
see people buying on average

(11:06):
when you launch, especially like it's 15 day at
least conversion, you know, window
attribution for window and it's better if you
convert them in email, not with, you know, 15
days or 15 weeks.
And right now in some niches, clicks
costs more than one works.
So it's like $15 per acquisition.
But with all this advertising, it will

(11:28):
cost you 150.
So with ads, it's cheaper.
Yeah.
Can you maybe a little, um, guidance like
in a step by step style so people can
keep up because it's really very important but
very hard information for them.
So how you, for example, will launch it,
let's say, in uh, in a flow

(11:49):
first or first, you would suggest to go with
campaigns and just track every campaign with
this deep approach, with customer based
approach, check every customer what you
need and everything.
Yeah, I'll make it real easy.
Let's talk about segments and then we'll talk.
Like that are related to campaigns.
Right.
So I think like what people typically get wrong.
And I think you kind of mentioned this at

(12:11):
some point is like what they'll basically do is
they'll test, take everyone on their list and they'll
just faction blast and send them the
exact same content.
Right.
That's the one thing people get wrong.
Another thing people get wrong is taking it one
step further is say, for example, they want to
hit a 90 day segment.
So basically someone has opened or
clicked within the last 90 days or they've joined
your list.
Let's say in the last 1 to 2 months

(12:33):
and then say from that, right, we want to
just focus on people that have clicked in the
last 90 days.
Um, a lot of times people just send that
list and that's it.
What what I recommend is take the 90 day
clicker so someone has on your list,
they've opened and obviously clicked at least one or
more emails within 90 days.
What we want to do is we want to
divide those out into two groups.

(12:53):
90 day clickers that have purchased and 90 day
clickers that have not purchased.
Right.
So we're going to treat those differently because they
have very different behaviors a very different
kind of understanding.
So and I'm going to give you kind of
examples for each one.
So like for the type of
content we'd send.
So let's say someone 90 day
um that has clicked and

(13:15):
has purchased versus hasn't purchased.
Right.
For those that have purchased in terms of the
personalization, we're going to want to focus on sending
campaigns and automations that leverage
cross-selling and upselling.
Looking at the purchase history to
recommend complementary items.
And we're going to do this at scale.
So again, if people have clicked the last 90
days that have purchased, when we send them things,
we're going to basically reference at scale.

(13:37):
And there's tools and there's things out there that
it's not like 1 to 1.
I'm not saying looking at Nyx specifically and sending
a manual email to Nick, we're doing
this with automation.
We're doing this with tools where we can find
a thousand nicks that are all pretty much similar,
and we're going to send them all the same
or similar content, right?
These 1000 people bought this one skew
or these skews.
Therefore they're going to get this email that talks

(13:58):
about these skews.
So for people that have clicked over the last
90 days and bought, we want to focus on
understanding their purchase history to make
recommendations of things that are complimentary, whereas people
that have clicked but haven't purchased.
I think I mentioned before, we want to focus
on things like first time buyer incentives, so special
discounts or value added bundle that convince them

(14:20):
to purchase.
But I have a bunch of other examples that
makes sense so far.
We're going to treat people that have done one
action the same, but the secondary action
different slightly different.
Does that make sense?
Yeah, sure.
Sure.
It's still hard to know.
Um, usually.
Um.
What do we what do we do?
We should go with, you know, basic stuff like

(14:40):
non-operational, like those who open emails,
engaged active persons.
And then also you need to divide them by
demographics on the call.
All right.
Let me let me make this also I'll delete
the one on one and then we'll go on
to more advanced okay.
So yeah to do taking one step
back to do email.
Really really well there's a number of things you
have to do.
We're going to talk about the first after you're

(15:02):
driving traffic you have to collect email addresses through
pop ups.
Let's just say right.
And once someone enters their email to a pop
up, we're going to send them what's called a
welcome series for non buyers.
And this is an automation that you
set up once.
And then you edit and optimize ongoing.
And let's just say for simplicity this is going
to be for emails.
So you have traffic to your site.
They don't buy anything.
They enter their email to a pop up.

(15:23):
Typically it's some kind of offer or incentive a
enter your email for 10% off.
Right.
We're then going to send you a sequence of
email saying, hey Nick, welcome to Chase
diamonds e-commerce brand.
We're so excited to have you here.
Here's the welcome ten code that we promised you.
Be on the lookout for the next
couple of days.
We're going to share some of our favorite products
in the store.

(15:43):
We're going to share some more stuff on success
stories of customers like yourself.
We're going to share some more information on why
we started this.
And you know, whatever, right.
So we'll send one email like that.
The next email will send will be like social
proof and kind of best recommendations, you know.
Then from there, right, we might share like a
feel good story about like why we started the
company and really what's in it for them.

(16:03):
How are we different than all the other competitors?
So at the end of the day, most companies
are selling the exact same thing as someone else.
If you're selling a t shirt, you're selling the
exact same t shirt most often then a million
other people.
So you have to differentiate between really
connecting with that customer, getting them to like
you, humanizing the brand.
Right.
That's why sending emails from the founder or the

(16:25):
community person having a face
is super important.
And then we'll send the emails at the very
end that says, by the way, we're the founders.
This is us, the picture of our face.
If you have any questions, hit respond.
We respond to all emails.
Let us know.
Right.
So that's kind of the trajectory so far.
So to look on your website to answer their
email, if they didn't buy they get a welcome
to your phone buyers.

(16:46):
And then right outside of that we'll have other
automations set up.
We'll have abandoned cars.
Someone adds something to the car, but they don't
start checkout.
They don't buy it.
They get abandonment, abandonment emails.
If someone dies, they get an automation for, you
know customer.
Thank you.
Right where you share your gratitude.
And you're basically want to reduce buyer's remorse and
confirm their decision as being a good one.

(17:06):
And you want to teach them how to do
the product right.
And you want to send post-purchase tracking emails, right?
So email really is like there's a logical
stepwise function where kind of you have to do
a few things to collect emails, set of automations.
So if you're brand new and you're a beginner,
you want the welcome series for Unbarred.
You want the abandoned checkout that's the furthest down
the funnel where people add their information and all

(17:27):
that stuff to your store.
For whatever reason, they left, uh, they were waiting
to see if you had free shipping.
They were waiting to see if you're going to
have a better discount code available or some discount
code available.
Maybe they just got distracted, right?
Their kid or their boss or their husband or
wife was calling them on the phone.
They got distracted.
And then the next one is the customer.
Thank you.
Right.
Those are like the basic automations you're also going

(17:48):
to want to send, you know, anywhere from one
to, let's say, five campaigns a week.
A campaign is a one time send to a
group of people, think about a product launch or
a holiday offer or a flash sale.
Um, right.
So there's a whole there's hundreds of things you
could send, right?
Yesterday was MLK day.
It could have been an MLK day email.
Um, right now.

(18:09):
Right.
The weather around the world in the
US at least, is insanely cold.
So if you're an apparel company, get to take
advantage of that segment.
All your people on the East Coast, like in
New York, where it's like zero degrees and start
sending them saying, hey, we're sorry it's so damn
cold, you know?
Bundle up with a jacket, a beanie pants.
Right.
So, so I think this is probably simpler to

(18:30):
understand where you can segment people based off of
so many attributes in the beginning.
Start with people that open and click over 90
days as you go on.
Second, people that open and click over 90 days
and based off their location and understand the weather.
Right.
Like, I've been watching a lot of the American
football lately, and one of the games got postponed
because of the snow in Buffalo, New York.

(18:51):
Right?
Send an email to everyone over there
saying like, damn.
Like the snow is crazy.
Hope you're safe.
Go buy these snow gears right?
Buy these shovels to get snow off your thing.
Buy this beanie to keep your ears warm.
Right?
There's just so many things you can
do with email.
You just have to think a little bit outside
of the box.
And then with all this.
Right, like picking the segments and

(19:11):
understanding your deliverability.
Like that's email right there.
There's more to it.
But that's like the five things that you have
to do.
Collect emails, have automations set up, send
campaigns to the right segments and make sure that
your metrics are healthy.
Is that is that more helpful taking
a step back?
Yes, it's more easy.
And, uh, but still
it's it's fundamental.

(19:31):
It's important to understand if you don't structure it
well, you just like your tool, healthy metrics, you
can even understand what's happening.
And if you just send over just direct emails
to all your database and everything like this, I
probably will die from spam rate and
something like this.
Um, incoming structure to a

(19:52):
bigger point.
How do you think?
What is the difference and how people need
to change the way they work with account as
a way they grow with the list.
For example, uh, 10,000
users in list, 100 K in list, and maybe
more like 500 in list.
Like, what's the difference when we have
larger lists, you just do more

(20:14):
segments and much more emails based on
this or this.
Something more behind.
Yeah, that's a great question.
So, uh, for context, the brands that we work
with do a minimum of $1 million a year
all the way up to, you know, hundreds of
millions and sometimes even $1 billion.
So the list size is typically in the minimum
is about 25 to 50,000 upwards to.
We're working with list five, ten, 15 million, uh,

(20:36):
for the companies that are, you know, six, seven,
eight figure lists.
Uh, the main thing is just the frequency of
emails where because there's so many segments, because they're
selling so many countries, because there's so many things
like we can't send enough emails.
Like we are literally sending two, three, four emails
sometimes a day.
We work with a nine figure brand out of
Israel called.
It's, um, a mix tiles.

(20:58):
You see behind me this stuff on the wall
like customized photos of, you know,
family dogs, whatever.
Uh, with them, I mean, they sell
in the US.
They sell in a bunch of countries.
You know, sometimes we'll send for emails, but that
doesn't necessarily mean that one person is going to
receive all four, right?
Um, I found this sweet spot at a given
week, depending on what you sell, if you only

(21:19):
sell one product, it's harder to send more emails.
But if you send multiple SKUs, hundreds of SKUs,
thousands of SKUs, if there's a bunch of stuff
happening, if you're dropping new things, I think it's
a sweet spot for one person on your list.
Receiving emails is probably 2 to 4, right?
I think four and upwards kind of gets to
be the upper threshold of a single person receiving
that many emails.
Keep in mind two if you're sending 2 or

(21:40):
3 campaigns to a single person, they might also
be eligible to receive 1 or 2
or more automations.
right?
Say, for example, you send me three campaigns in
a week.
If I view three things, or if I add
one to cart, I do something.
You know, I might also trigger a browse abandonment
or abandon cart or abandon, you know, checkout.
Or if I buy, I might also trigger post-purchase.

(22:01):
So really being mindful of both like the campaign
plus the flow frequency because someone should not
receive more than four.
But what I always recommend is start with one
campaign per week.
Look at your metrics right.
And let's talk about metrics.
There's positive metrics.
There's things like open rates click
through rates replies.
There's negative metrics.
And obviously conversion rates right.
Like you want people to buy the negative things

(22:23):
would be things like bounces marked as
spam and unsubscribed.
So look at those.
And every industry, you know, every vertical
has slightly different metrics in which they deem healthy.
There are some that are universal.
So for example, today, at this very moment,
um, one out of 1000 spam complaints is what
you're allowed.
So basically it's a 10th of a percent is

(22:44):
kind of like.
What did they recommend or want to see?
Um, if you if you go more above that,
you can be in trouble.
And in February, Google and Yahoo are
rolling out new policies where if you get
three spam complaints out of 1000.
So basically 3/10 of a percent, uh,
you're going to start getting in trouble.
Like you will start being kind of punished and

(23:07):
sent to spam.
So, uh, the spam rates are going to become
a lot more serious in a couple
weeks from now.
Um, that's very important with unsubscribe, as,
uh, you typically want at maximum 1
or 2% unsubscribe as the smaller
the the better.
I have a personal newsletter I run.
Typically my spam guides are pretty

(23:27):
much 0% right.
They're not even enough to be like a 10th
of a percent.
And then typically my unsubscribe are 0.1
or 0.2.
So it's a 10% C one minimum
of like 1 or 2%.
I mean like minimum ideally
half a percent or lower is better
for um unsubscribe.
And then there's balances right.
You want your balances.

(23:47):
So every industry has slightly different things.
Um open rates right now.
Um, or have changed where maybe
about a year and a half ago, something called
iOS 15 came out where essentially it's
inflating everyone's email open rate because
there's essentially a robot, you know, opening
emails so people about this might be over people's

(24:07):
heads that if people have opted into.
It's called mail privacy protection, where
senders or ISPs can't tell who's actually
opening a percentage of those people on your list
are going to inflate your open rate.
So before you wanted on a campaign, let's say
a 25 or 30% or higher open rate,
now you want like a 40 or
45% open rate.
And there are ways to segment it along.

(24:29):
That might be something for for later.
But yeah, there's all these metrics so long winded.
You want to aim for certain metrics.
And I can if if anyone has specific questions
on metrics you can hit me up later.
Or we could post something to the
community or whatever.
Um, but start with one,
launch your metrics.
Then if the metrics look healthy, send two events
per week.
Then if the metrics will help you send three.

(24:51):
Maybe that third email a week is where you
see friction.
Maybe the open rates, the click through rates, the
conversion rates drop.
You don't want those to drop.
You want those to increase or maintain.
If those drop and then negative things increase right
off balances increase in marketing spam increases
as unsubscribe increases.
Then you know that the number of emails per
week that you should most often send is two,

(25:11):
because the third email per week got you in
trouble, right?
So there's all these different types of things that
you want to understand with the metrics and make
sure that you're going to be healthy and that
your deliverability is strong.
There's great free tools.
Um, Google postmaster, most people have
tons of Gmail.
Uh.
Personal emails to Google for work emails.
So Google postmaster you want to set up.

(25:32):
It'll basically give you a report and a sense
of every day how you are in terms of
the metrics.
Just like there's Google Analytics for your website traffic,
Google has postmaster for your emails, and it's
super hard to understand where you're at, made sure
that you're being healthy.
Yeah, that's where a good one.
Also do you do in some cases, you know,
this verification with Google Gmail?

(25:54):
Check.
Mark.
Um, are you talking about like is it is
it me?
Is it Denmark.
All the all that kind of DNS, you know,
this blue checkmark in Gmail when you like,
verify your domain and you have like something like
verification with Instagram.
Oh yeah.
I don't remember which one that is.
I don't know if that's I don't know if
that's me.

(26:15):
But like you have to also in this upcoming
update, you have to make sure that you have
all your DNS records set up, your SPF, your
dMarc, your Dam.
You have to have all these set up.
There's also one column by me.
I think maybe that's the one where like it's
the next level of verification.
That's how you get the um,
basically it's like a brand logo.
Um, yeah.

(26:35):
Wells Fargo.
Yeah, but it's smiley.
Yeah, yeah.
Cost money.
So I think that's how you get like the
logo and the authenticated stuff.
I think it's called Mimi.
Um, I forget what it stands for.
It's like brand identity or something.
It's like some kind of brand or message identifier.
Yeah, but I was just curious if you had
tried this.
You know how it's different from, uh, from

(26:57):
just being without it.
Because usually if you go in
summary to something, you first thing you see a
huge dropout.
The first system is male, then it's outwards and
it's actually like they are male is the most,
you know, uh, hard one to get back.
If you have any problem coming to this,
what could you suggest to people who already have

(27:19):
big brands, like we have guys listening here,
somebody are with even more than 10 million in
revenue, and in many cases they have a lot
of weight.
Maybe, for example, they have 200, 300 of
users in their list.
But really people that are receiving this like
ten, 15 percentage of those, all others are like
that and maybe in spam rate or something.

(27:41):
Do you do any kind of, you know, this
re-engagement campaigns and try to do this?
Because sometimes it's tricky when you try to do
this, you also start getting more and more spam
rates and decrease open rates, you know?
Yeah, that's a good question.
Um, I mean, there's there's a couple of things
like, yeah, there's everything from like re-engagement and win
back campaigns.
Um, and there's also things that you could do
where like you could run specific ads to re-engage

(28:03):
these people.
So say, for example, someone has a list of,
let's say, 50,000 people that used to be active,
used to buy, used to be engaged,
but they haven't.
You could actually send like that 50,000
person segment or list to meta.
And you can start running kind of like re-engagement
campaigns on meta.
And essentially what we're going to look for is
we're going to build a segment that says, if

(28:24):
these people come back to our website, like basically
we're tracking their their web behavior, if they're coming
back to our website, then send them an email,
right, so you can send them emails directly.
That's going to work for some of them, right?
You know, if you have 40,000 people, you might
be able to re-engage, maybe a couple thousand people,
maybe upwards of 5 or 10,000.
They'll you're probably unlikely to reactivate or negate

(28:44):
a majority of them, but you could start sending
those people specific tags like, we miss
you, come back.
Here's a welcome back offer.
Right.
And if those people are back to being active
on your site, that can then trigger an automation
that says like, hey, Nick, you know, you must
have seen our ad or hey, Nick, welcome back
to our site.
We missed you.
As a reminder, here's your welcome offer.
You know, hit us up if you
have any questions.

(29:05):
You know, great to see you again
or something, right?
Like, it's not like a plain text, email or
even plain text emails for like, re-engagement and went
back emails could be great.
A lot of e-commerce um non direct response
is very image brand kind of
HTML heavy where I always love to mixing
in like the occasional plain text email.
Yeah, that's really good to hear from

(29:26):
a community manager.
Not always but oftentimes those can inbox better.
Those can be better received.
Those can kind of feel more personal.
But do you do them?
We all.
We do this maybe once and once.
We did twice.
Sometimes.
Especially when it important occasion.
Like something like from the founders where you.
But they do this like really plain text or
you still do HTML just

(29:47):
without any graphics.
Yes.
You know.
Yeah.
It depends.
Like and even for like my personal life sometimes
um, it will kind of have like the template
where it's like the logo and kind of the
sign off and it kind of looks a little
bit more jazzy.
And then other times I'll just straight up do
actual plain text as is.
Um, yeah.

(30:09):
With the actual plain text emails, um,
where they're actually plain text, not like the template.
You can't, you can't set the preview text, or
you could only set like the subject line, and
the preview text is just pulled from the emails.
Whereas if you do the actual template, you have
a little bit more control over certain things.
So it just depends, um, if, if the
list is active and engaged and knows who you

(30:30):
are and knows your name, I like the actual
plain text because, you know, just a little bit
nicer, a little bit easier if the if people
might forget who you are or your name, but
they might recognize your logo or something, or your
colors or whatever.
Maybe having more of like the templated stuff, but
like the actual email with content itself is like
plain text and live text.
So, uh, it just depends.

(30:50):
I go kind of back and forth depending on
like who it is and what it is and
which segment we're sending to.
Yeah, that's very good, huh?
Uh, okay.
Uh, Chase, that's very interesting information.
And it's very logical about how to do, you
know, emails better and the email marketing
and top strategies.
Um, so maybe shortly, can we recap

(31:11):
what's the difference between a small brand in terms
of email marketing strategies and the brand, which is
doing maybe eight figures, and what's the difference with
nine figures?
As for me, I start I see that it
starts with planning and then it starts
with the difference.
And that would be my next question about the
team structure and how you produce content and how

(31:33):
you analyze, you know, the process behind
the real emails, you know.
Yeah, let's let's start with team structure.
I think that actually might help lead into the
first question.
So, uh, I'm going to start with kind of
the the higher end of it.
And then we can kind of break it down
for smaller people.
But like let's say you're kind of a seven,
eight, nine figure brand, right?
Um, and maybe there's other agencies listening to

(31:56):
I just talk about brands.
Now we are talking about brands mostly.
Okay.
Okay.
So.
All right.
I guess maybe it's helpful.
Distinguish between.
But if you're just a brand, I think you
need three people working on your emails.
You need an email marketer, you need a copywriter,
and you need a designer.
Right.
If you're an agency, which again, um, the reason
I'm mentioning is just to differentiate.
The only thing that's different than an agency would

(32:16):
have, um, that we have at least, is like
an account manager to manage multiple accounts.
Not relevant for brands unless you own a
portfolio of companies.
Mix.
Maybe you own three or 5 or 7 companies.
Um, and you have the same team.
It might be helpful to have one designate that's
actually managing the workflow across all the brands
because, you know, one team, five brands,

(32:36):
it kind of almost acts as like a mini
pod or agency.
Um, and then the other person that we have
on the agency, just because we're churning out some
of the emails, is we have a dedicated person.
That's basically what we call an email implementer, someone
that's taking the designs and then either custom coding
them or slicing and dicing them for all of
our clients.
So on the brand side, it's typically three people
and sometimes the copywriter and the designer could

(32:59):
be also doing, you know, copy for ads, copy
for landing pages, designs for ads, etc.
but you need those three
people email marketer.
Ideally, they also know SMS shouldn't be too hard.
Uh, copywriter and designer.
And then the agency stuff we mentioned.
Um, if if you're smaller than a seven, eight,
nine figure brand, you're probably

(33:21):
the founder, right?
Doing the email strategy and maybe the
copy and then you probably just need
a the designer.
Right.
So if you're small, it's probably the founder doing
as much as he or she can with maybe
a designer, because typically someone that's good at
copy and marketing is not good at design.
Like I can draw stick figures at best, right?
Like I wouldn't be able to do the design.
It's hard.
Um, and then the other stuff.

(33:42):
So that's that's a good team structure in terms
of like the difference in terms of like how
email is done.
If you're like a six figure brand or you're
just getting started, um, you want to
ease into it.
You want to build out the core flows.
The welcome series for non buyers, the
abandoned checkout, the.
Basic post-purchase.
You want to build that out and you want
to be sending, let's say, one campaign a week.
And as that's kind of dialed in and as

(34:03):
you're kind of growing, then you'll build out like
the abandoned cart, which is different than the abandoned
checkout, but the browse abandonment.
You maybe add additional emails to the welcome series
for non buyers.
You'll start adding in upsells and cross sells.
You'll start sending more campaigns per week.
Right?
So essentially like regardless of where you are, you
need the foundation.
And I think the bigger brands have the ability

(34:23):
to send more and be more aggressive from the
beginning and start sending more advanced things,
being more granular, um, and who you're sending to.
Because if you're a big brand, an eight figure
brand, you might have 500,000 people on your list.
You could do some pretty crazy segmentation and still
have like 10,000 people.
Whereas if you're a small brand that only has
10,000 people, if you do crazy segmentation, you might

(34:45):
only have 100 people, and that's not really worth
doing an email to 100 people.
Right?
So it's a whole risk reward of kind of
opportunity cost type of a thing.
So that's how I think about it.
The bigger you are, the more emails you can
send, the more sophisticated you can get, the more
people can involve.
Um, maybe you bring in people outside to
audit and consult with your internal team if you're

(35:05):
an eight figure brand.
That was one thing that was really cool.
Um, we have this cupcake, uh, by this guy
named Danny Buck.
He's like an entrepreneur out of the UK.
He has, like, one of the fastest growing, uh,
men's jewelry company called crafted, um,
eight figure brand.
He's got a couple.
He he had an internal team, and he, like,
paid our agency to consult because he wanted things
that he couldn't see.

(35:26):
Right.
So he was eight figure skating crazy.
He wanted insights and tactics and tricks and all
these things.
Whereas if you're a six figure brand, you're just
trying to get by.
You don't can't afford a consultant, you
don't need it.
So there's a lot of different things like that.
Yeah, for sure.
It's very important.
You know, it's a very good idea for you,
uh, that you told like to be.
I would say time.

(35:47):
Your team is not limitless, you know, with time.
And usually if you force them like to do
just a lot of different flows and just campaigns,
it sometimes doesn't even work out.
So it's even even rationing people that
are is wrong.
So it's very important idea.
So uh, if, if to make a
logical recap for people here.
So in order to fulfill all this.

(36:10):
Conveyance flows
are very important.
One thing to build.
Sometimes you need to go segment first.
Understand your customers have a very good
analytics like where they from, what
they've done before.
Even if you have that audience, you want to
engage them but better somehow with other way.

(36:31):
Don't just spam them with emails, like for
retargeting with Facebook ads.
And just then they come back to your website
and then you send something to them.
So when you do all these parts and with
campaigns, you can do some kind of automations
later on, maybe
it's also changed.
Sometimes I see very difficult people to build
first flows.

(36:52):
They think they know how to build this, but
they build them zero results
or small results.
So sometimes I even say, okay, in this case
this first learn how how you told, you know,
to make campaigns one campaign a week.
You see it works, then do two
campaigns, three campaigns.
Then you can improve your flows based on these
campaigns as well.
You know, sometimes they rush to do the campaigns

(37:13):
because they think they are good.
They are big and something like this.
But and I have seen, you know, these
huge mirror boards with all this stuff, but they
have never sent even one campaign yet.
But they had all this imaginary
flow how people will buy five times from them.
So it's sometimes not really
wise even to invest all this time.

(37:35):
And when you don't have a team like even
three people and you start wondering, well, marketing.
So it's very important to understand this, I think,
and thank you for all this information.
So if
you speak about.
The analytics part, which is very important in terms
of this email marketing guy or maybe

(37:56):
even a department.
If you have some, how would you
would structure the process?
And I have two questions here.
So when you do all this,
you have sent us a lot of samples.
How you do analytics, how you do like maybe
location bias or you track what they did on
the website.
But do you have any kind of process which

(38:16):
could be easy to implement in terms of analytics?
Because I think this is a very important part.
In order to do everything else later on.
And the second part of the question,
copycats can not innovate.
But still, how do you, you
know, track competitors?
I know there are several tools, maybe used
some of them to keep the pace with the

(38:37):
market and just become better or
average, but not less.
You know.
Yeah.
Good questions.
Um, in terms of like reporting and kind of
KPIs, we typically run weekly reports for all of
our clients.
So, you know, we're looking at like weekly revenue.
We're looking at revenue between campaigns and flows.
We're looking at open rates, click through rates, um,
AB tests.

(38:57):
And we're basically reporting that all of these things
so we can try to understand where.
And there's a B test that we ran.
You know, when we did this type of subject
line versus that subject line, we had
better results, right?
We're doing tests.
Around what time of day should people be receiving?
In which data should people be receiving it?
Right.
The frequency.
So we're basically, uh, you know,

(39:18):
noting kind of recording on a weekly basis and
reviewing this ourselves and reviewing this with clients.
So that way we can understand on a weekly
basis and on a monthly basis.
We're doing a kind of a more elaborate, robust
report and on a quarterly basis.
Right.
So we kind of have touch points weekly, monthly,
quarterly, obviously semi-annually where we're looking
at different things.
We're looking at things week to week, month

(39:40):
over month, quarter over quarter, year over year, and
trying to identify trends and trying to say,
like, you know, we work with a lot of
companies and the apparel category, you know, across
the, you know, two dozen categories or people in
that category, what is the same, what is different,
what's working on a micro macro level.
So we've kind of built in things that we
share with clients and also internal things where we

(40:01):
can get a pulse of like, oh man, every
single client now needs to go run out this
it's really cold on the East Coast campaign because
that's working really, really well.
So there's just a lot of stuff that we
learned by just looking at, right?
I think a lot of people run the tests
and they have the data.
They just fail to actually be mindful on
reviewing it.
So I think that's like one is like you
have the data, use it, look at it.

(40:21):
Right.
Don't just collect it and let it collect dust.
Right.
It implements it.
Utilize it.
That's number one.
And then what was the second question?
I got the second question.
So the first one was on analytics.
And the second trend was connected to this like
analytics not internal but external.
How you compare with measure.
Yes.
Um, so we there's a couple of things.

(40:42):
One is that we have just like
an email address.
It's like design at, you know, in our agency's
name where we basically go sign up to our
clients emails and also
our competitor's emails.
So we have like our own swipe
file within there.
And then there's also tools like NHL.com, really
good emails, nail charts.
There's all these terms out there where you can

(41:04):
see, um, you know, a bunch of people that
they're doing.
And then also to like, I think not only
taking inspiration from your competitors, but taking inspiration from
like way out there companies.
So for example, like we do a lot of
branded e-com, nice looking but
high converting stuff.
You know, we might be looking at like hard
core direct response, you know, supplement stuff that's

(41:24):
not like directly competitive.
Or we might be looking at like hard core
direct response info products.
And what can we learn from InfoWorld and bring
it to E-com.
Right.
So we're just looking at like things in our
category, obviously it's obvious, but they're not an obvious
one is like, what are the things we can
learn from outside of our category that's working?
Yes.
That's where the very interesting

(41:46):
thing inside, like our community,
um, consists a lot from immigrant
interpreters and also a lot of them.
Sometimes they don't understand.
Maybe the history of marketing is in us,
and it's very I think it's very good
and interesting, like sales letters, direct emails, you
know, which was way before emails.

(42:07):
They were so good.
And but you, you didn't have any opportunity to
track them and everything.
It was like Ogilvy and all these guys who
know how to do a really good copy.
And it's all from these basics.
And how do you think?
Do you use some kind of approaches like we
in our agency, for example, we have, you know,
even uh, cars from old, uh, you
know, magazines or something.

(42:29):
It's very good, you know, and insightful sometimes to
create a very different, uh,
for your emails from what market has in something
like this.
Do you, do you do some kind of, you
know, approach, like with direct mails,
like physical ones?
Yeah.
So for me, yeah, some of my favorite ads
are like old school car ads like Porsche.

(42:50):
If you look at Porsche or like Volkswagen or
some of those, uh, BMW, they have some
amazing ads and I will I do like a
podcast that I was talking on a recent episode
on the podcast about, like.
I'm just going to be blunt.
Um, most companies are boring.
They're vanilla.
They're soft.
They're afraid of getting canceled.
Like there's no personality.
Right.

(43:10):
They're just so boring.
Or, like, when you look at some of these
ads, like from Porsche, it's like, talks about getting
laid and like the car that goes faster.
And you didn't dream of saving your money to
buy it on a on a Honda.
Right.
You want the Porsche.
You want.
You want to take the, you know, the fast
lane you want to.
You want to live on the edge.
So I think, like the biggest thing that I've
learned from studying some of these old school

(43:31):
print ads, whether they're like Gary Halbert or
something like the famous, you know, other
direct response copywriters.
Um, you know, Eugene saw some of these people.
Just the copy was very emotion driven,
very response driven, you know, very
psychological based.
Right now, it's like there's a picture and it's
like we launched new product.

(43:52):
You know, and it's like, I hope that they
like our new product.
It's like it's just boring where they've worked with
some really cool companies where, uh, we worked with
one called knowledge, where it's like a
chicken nugget alternative.
And they were so funny.
And one of our clients is a client called
potpourri, which is a spray for the bathroom.
Right.
And and we have like this thing called the
the Poo Club for people that poop.
And they're just not afraid to, like, lean into

(44:13):
being different.
We have this company called uh, Balls Co, which
is a men's trimmer.
Right?
It's like a men's razor and like, it's just
like, funny.
And when you take a stance and you're a
little bit I don't want to say controversial because
you can do all this stuff without being controversial,
without being kind of rude or polarizing.
But when you take a stance, you kind of

(44:34):
attract the people that are fanatics.
You don't want a list of 100,000 people that
are, uh, maybe about you.
You want a lot.
You would rather have a list of 10,000 or
20,000 people that are diehard.
Anything that you do, anything that you wear, anything
that you post about is, is
like what they want.
Like, if you think about it right now in
pop culture, anything Taylor Swift touches, the

(44:56):
people are diehard.
They love her.
Whereas like name any other celebrity or star
I can't even think about another one like that
sells like that.
Everyone else is kind of just playing
it safe, right?
Yeah.
For sure.
That's a very interesting one.
You know, I always,
uh, share this.
Um, I do like

(45:16):
wine, do feature reviews, and sometimes this brand
is funny.
It's working well.
So, like, in 2020, there was a case
on Amazon when, um, uh,
our oversized females, she posted like,
her picture in Legends and Legends.
She was like, climbing the mountain, but she was
afraid to come down to Trans Mountain, so she

(45:38):
was like, struggling and was
rolling down the mountain like this.
And somebody took a picture of her.
So she posted the picture and talked like I
was coming up the mountain, and I was afraid
to go downstairs.
And so.
And the leggings was fine.
No scratches, nothing.
So I will buy like ten of them of
different color stops, you know, such kind of

(45:59):
approaches, which is emotional based
and experience based.
They were good.
So if brains is funny, you can be funny.
If brain is about bold statement like Porsche, you
should be bold.
So it's I think very important.
Um, and maybe last questions from there.
So, uh,
it's, you know, the buzzword right now.
Uh, but still ai ChatGPT or a

(46:21):
different one, you know, uh, do you use any
of those or you prefer writing it?
Person.
Um.
It's interesting.
Both.
Um, so for personal stuff, for, like, my personal
brand, for my own content,
for certain things.
I do use a lot of AI.
It's great for ideation.
It's great for reviewing.
It's great for feedback.

(46:41):
Um, I use it a lot at our agency.
We haven't quite rolled it out or
adopted it yet.
We're we're kind of a premium service.
Premium agency.
We work with amazing brands.
Um, I have a few partners.
I have two partners.
They were a little concerned on how people would
feel for charging five, 10 or 15,
$20,000 a month that if clients found out we
were using AI.
So the agency, uh, we still are kind

(47:03):
of like on the fence about rolling it out,
but personally, I am obsessed with it.
I use it a lot.
Um, I run and own
maybe a dozen and a half or two dozen
social channels, like my personal ones and a bunch
of theme pages, probably around a million
followers and network.
A lot of the content there is AI generated
goes viral.
I'd probably racked up maybe 50

(47:25):
to 75 million impressions on content that was generated
with AI in the past six months,
maybe 12 months.
So I'm obsessed with AI.
I think it's huge.
I've even built my own custom GPT that write
threads on Twitter, that write tweets, that
write emails.
So I I'm a huge geek, I love it.
I run one of the largest AI pages on

(47:45):
LinkedIn called AI evolution.
We got about 5 million impressions a month on
our content, so I'm super bullish on it.
I think it's amazing.
I have an agency.
It's very interesting.
Not the agency yet.
Um, but I use it for a lot of
my own stuff and.
I really like it.
I'm.
I'm very bullish on it.
I've been pushing the agency to to do it.
Um, we're just not there yet.

(48:06):
It's it's very hard, I think, for,
uh, medium to large companies, we
have maybe, I don't know,
120, 140 people right now
at the agency.
It's hard for us at this size to roll
out AI to everyone.
Um, whereas, like the companies that I run that
are smaller, I own a couple other companies that
are smaller, that are one person, three

(48:27):
people, five people.
We rolled it out like this, you know, or
you're not.
Right.
So I think like some of these companies that
are thousands or tens of thousands of employees, it's
really challenging.
I think people want to use it and could
and should use it.
Um, it's just harder.
I also think even AI for like taking long
form videos like this and pulling out clips, there's
a lot of really cool use cases where like,

(48:47):
uh, clip editors, I get DMs all the time,
emails all the time on their servers.
It's like, why would I pay thousands of dollars?
Or I could do with AI and $20 a
month in two minutes, right?
So yeah, I love AI.
Okay.
Okay.
That's good.
You're creating, like, with this
competition for your agency.
Maybe.
But I think for now, maybe just the meaningful

(49:10):
communication and the deep inside.
And AI is a lot about
copycats, like stuff, you know, maybe because it's
based on all the data of the market and
what you do maybe is a little bit different
and unique.
It's just harder to put all the structure
you have in AI together right now.
Okay.
Chase, it was very interesting and inspiring to talk

(49:31):
about all this stuff.
I hope you guys have a
lot of information.
It was maybe hard, but trust me, everything
changed shared with you.
As I told you before, there is
no magic buttons.
You just need to do a lot of work.
And if we structure it back, you need to
do a lot of analytics.
You need to know how to build flows, how
to step by step grow your campaigns,

(49:53):
not to have some, you know, guide
lists, huge amount of audience.
So you need all these five steps that's changed
all of us.
Can you recap please help me
with your way?
Craigslist.
Yeah.
Yeah.
So, like, the emails set up automated
flows, sending campaigns.
Make sure you're sending the right segments, understand

(50:15):
and monitor your metrics.
So that way your deliverability is strong.
Yes that's okay.
Very important ones I think if you dive deeper
and like really invest your time and help your
team whenever, it doesn't really matter if you
have right now a good team or not, you
can always hire a better team.
But right now, I think it's very good for
you to focus there because

(50:35):
2024 as as all the
trends last year, it will be more and
more every year expensive.
With ads like last three years, ads doubled
at least.
So you want to have all this work done
in your emails, or you want you want to
be thriving on the market.
You need to do this.
And I will be talking about this tomorrow before

(50:56):
going and doing all these ad campaigns and investing
hundreds of thousands into your ads, which you
trust me, after listening to me tomorrow, you will
want to do this, but first you need to
do what Chase has told you.
You need to learn how to do
your email community.
Then you can do all the other parts.
Yeah, so thanks for your information.
I hope to see you more inside our community.

(51:19):
See you.
This is a blast radius offer for listening.
Helpful.
Valuable.
Yeah.
Thank you very much.
Have a good one.