February 25, 2025 • 32 mins
Special education can be a labyrinth for parents, but today’s episode promises to equip you with the tools to navigate it. Join us and our special guest, Nancy Perkins, a seasoned special education advocate and licensed social worker, as she shares her wealth of experience and personal journey. As a mother of a child with autism, Nancy offers unique insights into the emotional and procedural hurdles that come with understanding diagnoses and maneuvering through the intimidating world of IEP meetings. Her professional and personal perspectives emphasize the critical importance of parental rights and highlight how collaborative efforts between families and schools can lead to the best outcomes for children with special needs.
Throughout our discussion, Nancy sheds light on the myriad challenges that arise from inadequate school resources and the overwhelming demands placed on teachers. She explains her vital role in identifying and addressing IEP red flags through Special Needs Pro, ensuring children receive the support they deserve. We uncover the intricate dynamics within families, especially when disagreements on educational evaluations occur, and the additional complexities introduced by third-party involvement. Nancy also stresses the importance of understanding legal rights and being a proactive advocate for your child, especially when facing budget constraints and school system intricacies. Listen in for practical advice and insights on fostering effective communication and collaboration, ensuring every child with special needs reaches their full potential.
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
Welcome to Common Sense Parenting with Pam, the
podcast where we simplifyparenting with common sense tips
, real life scenarios and alittle bit of humor along the
way.
I'm Pam and I'm here to helpyou build the skills and
confidence you need to raisehappy, resilient and responsible
children.
So grab your coffee, take adeep breath and let's tackle
(00:22):
parenting one common sense tipat a time.
Well, hey, everybody.
And let's tackle parenting onecommon sense tip at a time.
Well, hey, everybody, andwelcome to our podcast episode
today.
I'm so excited because this isour first episode where we
actually have a guest.
You usually just have to listento me talking, but today I have
a special guest who actuallyreached out to me through social
media.
Right, that's how you found me.
(00:43):
Yes, her name is Nancy Perkins.
She's a special educationadvocate and I am so excited to
have you on, nancy, becausewe've talked prior to this and
you know that I have experiencewith family members and dealing
with school system and IEPs andall that good stuff, and I was
fortunate enough that I knewenough to be dangerous not too
(01:05):
dangerous, but new enough but Ihave followers, a lot of
followers that haveneurodivergent children, that
are dealing with IEPs, dealingwith school systems have
children with autism.
They're overwhelmed.
And then you go into an IEPmeeting and then it's like
they're speaking a foreignlanguage to you and you're not
sure what they're saying andyou're just floored.
And it's like they're speakinga foreign language to you and
you're not sure what they'resaying and you're just floored
(01:28):
and it's so confusing.
So when I heard that you are aperson who can help families, I
was so excited to have you ontoday.
So welcome, thank you, thankyou.
So tell us about your.
Tell us first of all about yourbackground first, so people can
know where you're coming from.
Let's start there.
Speaker 2 (01:46):
Okay, well, thank you so much, pam.
I'm Nancy Perkins and I live onLong Island in the New York
metropolitan area.
I live in a suburb, live andwork in a suburb which is about
an hour or so outside of NewYork City.
I have a Master of Social Workdegree from Adelphi University
(02:06):
and I am a New York Statelicensed master level social
worker and I have a variety ofsocial work experiences.
I've worked with differentpopulations, but special needs,
children with special needs,learning disabilities,
developmental disabilities it'salways pulled me like a magnet,
even before I became a parent.
(02:26):
My child has what we call levelone autism, what in the olden
days used to be known asAsperger's syndrome.
I have 11 and a half years ofexperience working in a special
education preschool and thechildren in our preschool they
were kind of a mix ofdisabilities.
We actually we had very many,many medically fragile children,
(02:50):
children that were tube fed,children that had seizure
disorders.
Speaker 1 (02:55):
I'm fascinated by your background because I
connect a lot with you on a lotof things working in kids with
special needs, working inchildcare, all those kinds of
things.
What led you to decide I needto be, I need to advocate for
these kids outside of a job.
Working for somebody else, what, what was that brain change?
What led you to that decision?
Speaker 2 (03:15):
I don't think it was one particular thing.
When I think about it, I thinkit was.
It was a series of moves thathappened in the different
populations that I worked in.
It just it kept happening overand over, over and over again.
That began to plant seeds.
(03:38):
So this took, this all took along time.
So you know, it's all of this,it's not even 1990.
And I got my degree in 1989.
And so I was moving along andin the early 90s I had gone to
work in the special educationpreschool.
We did screenings for kids tosee if they qualified for
(04:00):
services and if, after we hadour meeting to discuss
evaluation results, the schoolpsychologist and I would do what
we called an informing and wewould give our recommendations.
So when I was working in theschool for 11 and a half years
(04:20):
by then, I was very, very, veryinvolved in that half years.
Speaker 1 (04:23):
By then I was very, very, very involved in that as a
parent, hearing from somebodyyour child is diagnosed or
labeled, however you want to sayit with this.
Sometimes it's a shock to theparent, even though you would be
like how did they not know this?
How could you not see it?
It's really obvious.
But as a parent, to maybesuspect it or not be aware of it
(04:45):
at all and then get a diagnosis, or here's what we need to
recommend based on thisassessment we've done of your
child, that can be a reallyemotional moment for families to
have somebody who knows whatthey're talking about and is
skilled in it and you help kindof ease that for the parent,
because that's hard to hear.
That's hard to hear.
You know it's nice to knowthere's somebody out there like
(05:06):
you that can help families withthat.
You know those changes thathappen.
And then you know I've had togo up against the schools myself
and we talked about that beforeand I'm not going to detail
here, but multiple times I'vehad to go up and advocate for my
child with the schools, and notthat they're, not that I'm
bashing schools at all, becausewhat I told the teachers when I
(05:26):
had to meet with them that dayis.
We're a team.
It's our job to work togetherto meet this child's needs.
It's not just yours, just mine.
We're a team.
We have to work together tomake this work.
So tell me how you.
Well, let's back up.
Tell our listeners what exactlyyou do with the family.
Say I'm a family and I come toyou and I say, nancy, my son's
(05:49):
just been diagnosed with autismand he's in second grade and the
school's talking to me aboutthis thing called IEP and I
don't know what that means.
I don't know what I, what I do,what services is my child
entitled to.
So kind of, take it from thereand riff on telling us what it
is you do and how you handle it,how people find you.
Speaker 2 (06:09):
Well, how people find me is, excuse me, I have a
Facebook page special needs pro,okay, and I also have a website
by by the same name and I'm onthreads.
If somebody and I also, Iengage.
I'm on a lot of different pagesspecial needs, parents pages
and I'll answer people'squestions.
(06:30):
If somebody says that you knowwhat the scenario that you just
presented, what I do is, I'vebegun to really assume nothing
and start from scratch.
And I will ask them I'll say,has your child had an evaluation
(06:50):
through the school district?
And it depends on what theanswer is.
If they say, well, no, and thisis just hypothetical I'll say
to them well, you need to make arequest in writing.
And what I always say to themwell, you need to make a request
in writing.
And what I always say toparents constantly is when
you're making such a request andyou're communicating, always do
(07:12):
it in writing.
There are two reasons for that.
One of them is people are verybusy and they and they forget.
You can't.
You know everybody's very busy.
But also there is a saying thatif it wasn't written, then it
wasn't said.
There's a very famous specialeducation lawyer by the name of
(07:34):
Pete Wright and he's a he's anabsolute rock star.
He lectures, he has anewsletter, his rights law
newsletter, and that's I thinkthat's where I read the saying
from.
If it wasn't written, then itwasn't said.
And lawyers probably say thatall the time Documentation,
honey, documentation iseverything.
(07:55):
And so you know, the email isproof positive, you have the
timestamp and you make therequest you are requesting, you
want the consent, you want yourchild evaluated.
Let's say, for instance, youthink the child has a speech
delay.
You're requesting apsychological evaluation,
educational evaluation, speechand language, if you think,
(08:17):
maybe a problem with fine motorskills, like you know, with
fingers, hands, occupationaltherapy.
Now I'm going to backtrack fora second, because this is
something I've heard.
I've heard people have said oh,but his teacher said his speech
is fine and he understands them.
It's speech and language,because it's not just
(08:39):
articulation, it's not justabout do they stutter,
disfluency, it's about what doyou understand, what are they
understanding?
What are they perceiving theperception.
So you make these requests, thedistricts.
The clock starts ticking.
Once that request goes out, theclock begins to tick and they
have a certain number of days toeither grant your request or
(09:05):
they say no.
But they can't just say no,sorry, we're too busy.
If they say no, they have toprovide you with something
called a prior written notice,which in Pennsylvania they call
it a NOREP.
What is it?
Notice?
I forgot what the acronymstands for, but, and it goes by
different names but the priorwritten notice is something that
(09:27):
takes place, that is generatedwhen an action has taken place,
when it's accepted or refused,and it's an explanation as to
why we're going to do this orwe're not going to do this, so
that you know and they can'tjust stop you in the hall or
call you on the phone and say,ah, we decided we don't need to
do it.
No, that doesn't it writing?
Speaker 1 (09:46):
Oh yeah, oh yeah, can I compare and appeal it?
Okay, I'm getting to that.
Okay, I'm going to get to that.
Speaker 2 (09:53):
So if they say you know what speech and language,
nah, he's fine.
No, no, he doesn't really needit.
You can oh, you're alsosupposed to be given a document
it's about 49 pages or so calleda procedural safeguards notice.
It's from your state.
That's a very thick document,but it explains what your rights
(10:17):
are.
So if they say no in the priorwritten notice, you can say, oh,
you don't think he needs aspeech therapy evaluation.
Oh, you know what?
I am making a request inwriting for an independent
educational evaluation forspeech.
That is when the speech therapyor there are other evaluations
(10:41):
you can ask for, but only oneper year.
That is something paid for atpublic expense.
Speaker 1 (10:47):
So that's done by an independent person, not within
the school system, and theschool has to pay for it.
Just want to be clear withpeople listening.
Speaker 2 (10:55):
Okay, the person is, they're not employed by the
school district, but they areunder contract.
So either they will either payfor it or, in the case of we
have a case of aneuropsychologist out here you
have to right now.
You have to pay him up frontand wait to get reimbursed.
You have to right now.
You have to pay him up frontand wait to get reimbursed.
Speaker 1 (11:16):
But all these evaluations are needed for the
child's benefit, to determinewhat services then the school is
responsible for providing.
That then will be going to thedocument, the IEP.
So tell people what an IEP is.
We have a lot of people who arenot familiar with this
terminology.
So explain what an IEP is forus.
Speaker 2 (11:35):
One more thing before I explain the IEP.
If you ask for an independenteducational evaluation the
district they only have twochoices.
That's another case of youcan't say sorry.
They either grant it and giveyou a list of providers and you
don't have to choose the list ofproviders, or they say no,
(12:00):
we've decided, you know,according to our PWN, and we're
going to take you to due processbecause we think everything is
fine Now.
An IEP stands for IndividualizedEducation Program.
What it means is that you haveto look at what are, first of
all, what are the child's needs?
What do you know, based on theevaluations that we have, what
(12:23):
are his needs?
What you know?
What's going on?
How did he score?
And not just academics, butsocial, emotional.
Is there some behavioral?
Is there anything we saw withexecutive functioning?
So then now, how do we putgoals together?
What do we do as far as that'sconcerned?
And the very last thing we comeup with is placement.
(12:47):
A big thing and parents haveheard this is that they've heard
this in meetings oh sorry,tough luck, we don't have that
here.
We'll just we'll have to putyou in this placement, and so we
don't do that.
Here is not, you know, if it'snot in your district and you
really cannot service the childin your district, then the onus
(13:09):
is on the district to look foran appropriate out
ofof-placement district for thechild.
You know so you can't say wedon't do that here.
It's very difficult, you knowit's very.
It is the only way I can putthat.
It's just hard for everybody.
Speaker 1 (13:28):
It is.
I can see why.
I hear a lot from teachers inthe public school system who
have children placed in theirclassrooms or have terrible
behavioral needs.
They're not, they're not ableto met in the classroom.
They're extremely disruptive tothe whole classroom.
And then the teacher's like wehave to evacuate all the kids
out of the room for this onechild throwing a fit in our room
.
So again it goes back to theseexpectations on these teachers
(13:52):
who don't have the skills andthe training they need to best
meet that child's needs, andit's not fair to the teacher,
it's not fair to the child, it'snot fair to the other children
in the classroom.
It's a tough spot sometimes,it's just a tough position to be
in all around, but that's whythey have people like you so
back up.
So just so people are clear, Iwant to make sure everyone's
(14:12):
clear you are now on on your own.
You have your own business,special Needs Pro, and so people
contact you and they pay you tobe like the liaison, to review
notes.
Tell us what all you do whenpeople are hiring you to to
advocate for their child is.
Speaker 2 (14:32):
I will ask if, assuming somebody has an IEP and
, let's say, a meeting is comingup, I'll say please send me the
most recent IEP and any reportsthat you have, medical reports
or you know anything outside ifyou had an outside neuropsych
eval, you know and I'll ask themto send me pertinent documents
(14:53):
and I review everything and Icause I, I'm looking for red
flags.
We, my colleagues and I, wehave our, our recommendations,
but I'll look for red flags inIEPs and I'll see things like
things that don't make sense.
I've seen the wrong child'sname on IEPs more more than once
, where it get finds its wayinto a report where you can tell
(15:14):
it's been cut and pasted, youknow, and it's just wait a
minute, wait a minute and I'llcircle it and I make no bones,
I'll bring it up at the meetingand I will say to the
administrator the wrong name isthere.
I'll say to the parentbeforehand the wrong name is in
the report and so they have tofix it.
No-transcript said no, thankyou.
(16:08):
I said no.
No, I'm not an attorney, notnot an attorney, I just have to.
I said I'm an advocate.
I don't want to mislead anybody.
There are times when it getsadversarial and they need an
attorney and I'll send them toone, but I won't.
I'm not going to practice lawwithout a license.
The other thing, too, is thatif I can't do something for them
(16:29):
, I'll tell them.
I had a phone call.
A woman called me and she saidcan you get my child into
private school?
And she sounded veryenthusiastic and I went and I
said no, I it doesn't work thatway.
What do you mean?
And I explained, and I and shesaid I don't like my child's
(16:52):
school.
And she mentioned a schooldistrict like an hour or so east
of me.
I don't like my school, I wantto put her in private school.
And I said well, I said there'sa whole process to it and I
explained the process.
I said if you want to, if youwant your district to pay for it
, you have to take your districtto what's called due process.
(17:15):
You have to hire an attorneyand it's expensive for her.
I said if I could make iteasier, I would.
I said, but it's.
(17:40):
I said I'm not going to tellyou that I can do something that
I can't do.
She was so disappointed.
Speaker 1 (17:47):
Okay, let me ask you this, a couple questions about
that.
So the parents contact you,they either have an IP or they
don't.
If not, you advise them to getthat process rolling with an IP.
Then, if they're coming to themeeting, you'll sit in on the
meeting, you'll review the notes, you'll go to the meeting with
Zoom.
I know you're based in New York, but you can consult with
(18:07):
people all over America, allover the United States.
Oh yeah, so you can even sit inon meetings virtually Sure,
virtually Sure.
Okay, what happens if you get afamily and I'm sure this happens
where, like, the mom is like anagreement, but the dad, so the
mom and dad are not on the samepage but their child needs?
I know sometimes parents are indenial about.
(18:27):
I mean, I know an instanceright now of a friend who has a
child in a preschool setting andthe clearly this little boy in
the classroom has some seriousissues going on and mom is
agreeing to get him evaluatedand dad said no, absolutely not.
There's nothing wrong with thiskid when it's like red flags
are dancing all over the place.
So you deal with a situationlike that when you have a client
(18:48):
that comes to you, wants yourhelp to go to the school system
to advocate for their child, butdad's like no, we don't need it
, we're fine, the kid's fine.
What happens?
What do you?
Speaker 2 (18:55):
do.
I've had that discussion withcolleagues.
I would not.
If there's that much of adisagreement, I'm not going to.
I'm not going to take that case.
I would not, I wouldn't.
Somebody that I know who is aspecial ed lawyer said well, ask
them to show you who hasdecision-making authority as far
(19:18):
as education is concerned.
Speaker 1 (19:20):
It's like a divorced family.
Speaker 2 (19:22):
Yeah, right, if it's a divorced family.
Speaker 1 (19:26):
Mom's all for it, but dad's like no, he's fine.
So then the lawyer'srecommending you find out which
one of those parents has theauthority to make the decision
for the education of the child.
Speaker 2 (19:36):
Right in a divorce.
This is one of my special edlawyer who's local to me, said
that.
Honestly, to tell you the truth, I did agree with that advice.
I don't now because I just Ithink that even if something is
on paper I don't, I I wouldn'ttake the case.
(19:58):
I did have a phone call from amother where the parents they
were not divorced and I thinkthey lived under the same roof.
But she agreed and he didn't,and it turned out that it was.
It was during the summer and Iactually I was not feeling well,
(20:18):
I had just broken my toe and Iwas in a lot of pain and it was
the.
I just had to take a few daysoff.
So I wasn't taking that caseanyway.
And I said you know what, I'mnot taking that case because
they're going to everything wasan argument in terms of that
family I'm'm not.
If I see any fissures, any kindof any trouble on the horizon,
(20:43):
I'm not going to take the case.
Another thing as well is ifsomeone says to me well, my, you
know, I want to hire you, butmy mother is paying for my
mother is paying your fee, soshe wants to know everything.
No, you know what?
No, I mean family.
(21:04):
Well, families and money getyou know, money is a very it's a
hot issue.
Unless somebody signed arelease, a time limited release,
saying I authorized my mother,jane Smith, to have information.
I'm not taking that either.
I won't.
Speaker 1 (21:21):
But you have to be careful about HIPAA violations
too.
You can't be tellinginformation that's actually.
Speaker 2 (21:26):
it's it's HIPAA's counterpart in education is
FERPA.
So is that?
But it's the.
That's what it is.
I, you know I would, I wouldsign it, but quite frankly, I'm
not.
I don't want to have that, Idon't want to do that.
Speaker 1 (21:40):
A family cannot be on the same page as two.
Bottom line it's what is in thebest interest of the child.
It's not about dad agreeing ornot agreeing, or mom agreeing or
not agreeing.
It's like, whoa, this is ourchild and we need to do what's
best for the child and maybe Idon't think there is anything
wrong.
But at least let's explore youknow what I mean.
(22:00):
Like, let's give the child thebenefit that don't figure out
what's going on here.
So you're right, it's not worththe time you're going to have
to invest in managing theirdisagreements or their
disruption to try to figure thisout for the family, for the
child.
Speaker 2 (22:17):
It's not worth it.
No, I'm not, I'm not, and right, because there is enough.
It's enough of a stressor todeal with the district and in
certain cases Now one of mycolleagues, who is I respect
more than I can say, mentions,talks about that when we have
(22:39):
all of our ducks, have the dataon our side, obviously you know
it's going.
Things are going to go muchbetter.
(23:01):
With that said and I said thisto her and I had disagreed with
her with that said personalitiesare personalities and if you
have someone who's anadministrator, who is just
argumentative or is having a badday, it can still be a
stressful meeting.
Speaker 1 (23:20):
I, as a parent, have never, I have never found it
smooth sailing, never never,especially when you're saying to
an administrator but by federallaw you're required to provide
these services and the ministryis going that's great, but we
don't have money in our budget,the school system doesn't give
us money, and so then it comesdown to money.
Speaker 2 (23:42):
Sometimes, quite honestly, it always comes down,
always, always money, alwaysmoney, and they get agitated
because oh, here we go, now wehave to provide this for this
child.
Speaker 1 (23:53):
We don't have the money.
Where am I supposed to pull themoney?
Who am I pulling the money from?
And then no wonder they getargumentative sometimes.
And I will tell you.
My sister told me that years agoshe taught kindergarten and she
had a child in her class andshe clearly realized there was
some issues.
And there was an IEP meetingand my sister was heading into
the IEP meeting and theassistant principal called her
(24:13):
over and said if the parentdoesn't mention that they want
these services, don't tell themabout them, because they didn't
want to have to pay.
And my sister was appalledbecause here she has a child at
home with special needs andshe's being told don't tell the
parent.
And of course she went and toldthe parent on the slide, like
you need to ask for these things.
But I mean that's a reality ofwhat happens.
(24:39):
A lot of times the school'slike if they don't know, we're
not telling them because theydon't have the money, they don't
want to have to provide theservices.
So that's why people findsomebody like you and I mean
there are a couple of specialadvocates, special needs
advocates.
I follow on Facebook as well,or Instagram, and it's the same
stories, same stories, andthey're doing this.
They're saying the same things.
Like you're saying, you haverights, your child has rights.
You have to know and you haveto ask for these rights and you
(25:01):
can take you can't take nofinancial all the time.
You can appeal, you can fightback.
You don't have to settle right,you can.
You have to know what you don'tknow, and so that's where
someone like you comes in.
But let me ask you this soyou're private, so people have
to pay you out of pocket to dothis for them.
Do you ever get people going?
Man, you're expensive, or Ican't afford that.
(25:22):
Or what do you say when theycome?
Because I hear that too withsome of my services.
But what's your response tothat?
Speaker 2 (25:28):
During COVID, someone said to me we're in the middle
of COVID, you should do this forfree, Good, one Good.
And I said, well, I said thisis a service and I work very
hard for this.
And I said there is a publicagency that I referred her to,
(25:49):
the public agency that we havelocally that and even they're
not for free, because if you, ifone of their advocates, goes to
a meeting with you, they chargeyou.
It's a nominal fee, but they docharge you.
And I said, well, I said thatis always a choice.
I said, or going onto Facebook,or that's, that's always a
(26:10):
choice.
And she was very, she said all,but she was on a roll.
All these services should befor free.
For for people who say I can'tafford you, I I say I don't do
any kind of sales pitch.
I say, yeah, I commiserate, andI say, yes, life, life is
expensive.
I said, but I'm here if youchange your mind, and so that's
(26:32):
really your response.
Yeah, that's my response.
Speaker 1 (26:36):
They're not only buying your services.
They're buying your years ofexperience, knowledge, and that
is where the power is, becauseyou know how to navigate the
system, you know the ins andouts, you know the laws, you
know what they don't know.
So you're educating the parentas well as sometimes educating
the school system at the sametime.
(26:57):
So they're buying years andyears and years and years of
expertise, and there's value inthat.
And I do the same thing.
People like I have one lady.
I did public speaking aroundthe country years ago and I had
one lady said to me wow, that's,you know, I really can't afford
your fee.
I'll let you stay in my housefor free and we'll do this.
I said you know what Iappreciate all that.
(27:19):
Maybe you could partner withanother agency and split my fee,
or maybe you can just put me onreserve, maybe for next year
when you can, you know, contactme again next year when you can
afford to have me come and speakto your audience or whatever.
And I'm not apologetic, but youknow, I know the value of my
expertise and what I have tooffer, and the same thing with
(27:40):
you.
And sometimes parents can payfor it for you and sometimes
they can't, and then you knowyou're nice enough to refer them
to a public agency that canhelp them no-transcript, gently
(28:41):
throwing it in, and they getvery annoyed.
Yes, because the whole point ofthis is, hopefully, when you're
going to work on behalf of afamily and a child with a school
system, to work on behalf of afamily and a child with a school
system, it's not adversarial,it's, like I said, team approach
.
Okay, we've got it.
The best interest of this childare what we all should be
(29:02):
focusing on and make sure theyget the services they need and
everything that they need isprovided for them.
Not a problem.
But that's not reality A lot ofthe time, a lot of times, going
into a situation where it iscontentious, it is adversarial,
the school does not want to haveto pay for another day gone
thing they don't have the moneyfor, and then you're coming in
as an advocate saying, oh yes,you do, because, uh, let me, let
(29:24):
me get this straight.
Just wasn't that federal law?
I mean, correct me if I'm wrongbut didn't they say?
And so sometimes you have tosugarcoat it and kind of, you
know, get your point across.
But it's not always happy,happy for everybody.
It's not always like win, win.
Sometimes it's like you'rebucking the system and they
don't like it, but they have toprovide.
(29:45):
This is the way it is, so tohave somebody with your skills,
your knowledge, your backgroundthat could go to the parents.
Basically sit back, I've gotthis.
Speaker 2 (29:55):
I mean that's priceless.
Speaker 1 (29:55):
You can't put a price on that.
You really can't.
Because what you do like I saidin the very beginning and to
kind of wrap this all backaround the beginning is what you
do is going to have an impacton that child for life for life.
I mean, I see it with mysister's son and I see all the
advocacy she's done with him andall the things she's had to do
for him, and it impacts not onlythe family, the parents, but
(30:19):
that child.
It can make a difference inthat child's entire life.
And that's powerful, that'sjust powerful and it's worth
every penny you charge as far asI'm concerned, because what are
they going to do otherwise?
Imagine if they don't haveservices like that and their
child doesn't get their needsmet.
Imagine the lifelong impact ofthat.
Speaker 2 (30:41):
You know what?
Here's my response to that.
We have, and you're probablyaware we have a real literacy
crisis in America right now andthese children, they cannot read
and unfortunately, theundiagnosed dyslexic students
grow into dyslexic adults andmany of them are in jail.
(31:04):
Yeah, With the comorbidities ofADHD and dyslexia, they're in
jail, that's what I'm talkingabout.
Speaker 1 (31:12):
They they maybe were not diagnosed, they didn't have
anybody he knew, maybe theirparents didn't know to advocate
for them or didn't realize evenhad an issue, that they had
dyslexia.
You know, maybe it wasn'tdiagnosed till later in life and
there's a lifelong impact thathappened.
That's why I say it's like godbless you for the work that you
do, for these, and I know youhave wonderful success stories.
(31:32):
I'm sure people need to findyou.
Tell us again where they canfind you on Facebook at special
needs pro.
Speaker 2 (31:38):
At special needs pro and on my website
wwwspecialneedspronet.
Speaker 1 (31:45):
Okay, and then they can find you on threads under
special needs program Specialneeds pro yeah, under special
needs pro Okay.
Well, nancy, thank you so muchfor being here today.
I'm just, I'm pumped for whatyou do.
Thank you Personally.
Get that, I totally get this.
I've been, you've been on theteacher's side and been on the
parent's side, and you know I, Itotally get it.
(32:05):
And so I think what you do isso valuable and just keep
fighting.
I mean just keep fighting andadvocating for these kids and
these families, because what youdo is powerful.
Thank you, I will.
I will.
Speaker 2 (32:16):
Awesome.
Good talking to you Same here.
Thank you so much.
Speaker 1 (32:22):
Thank you for tuning in to today's episode of Common
Sense Parenting with Pam.
I hope you enjoyed the episodeand, if you did, please leave a
review.
That helps other parents findus, and if you have friends who
also have children and could usesome parenting tips, feel free
to share this.
I would really appreciate it,and you know I love to hear from
you, so you can always find meon my socials.
(32:42):
And until then, remember, hugand love your babies.
Welcome to Common Sense Parenting with Pam, the
podcast where we simplifyparenting with common sense tips
, real life scenarios and alittle bit of humor along the
way.
I'm Pam and I'm here to helpyou build the skills and
confidence you need to raisehappy, resilient and responsible
children.
So grab your coffee, take adeep breath and let's tackle
(00:22):
parenting one common sense tipat a time.
Well, hey, everybody.
And let's tackle parenting onecommon sense tip at a time.
Well, hey, everybody, andwelcome to our podcast episode
today.
I'm so excited because this isour first episode where we
actually have a guest.
You usually just have to listento me talking, but today I have
a special guest who actuallyreached out to me through social
media.
Right, that's how you found me.
(00:43):
Yes, her name is Nancy Perkins.
She's a special educationadvocate and I am so excited to
have you on, nancy, becausewe've talked prior to this and
you know that I have experiencewith family members and dealing
with school system and IEPs andall that good stuff, and I was
fortunate enough that I knewenough to be dangerous not too
(01:05):
dangerous, but new enough but Ihave followers, a lot of
followers that haveneurodivergent children, that
are dealing with IEPs, dealingwith school systems have
children with autism.
They're overwhelmed.
And then you go into an IEPmeeting and then it's like
they're speaking a foreignlanguage to you and you're not
sure what they're saying andyou're just floored.
And it's like they're speakinga foreign language to you and
you're not sure what they'resaying and you're just floored
(01:28):
and it's so confusing.
So when I heard that you are aperson who can help families, I
was so excited to have you ontoday.
So welcome, thank you, thankyou.
So tell us about your.
Tell us first of all about yourbackground first, so people can
know where you're coming from.
Let's start there.
Speaker 2 (01:46):
Okay, well, thank you so much, pam.
I'm Nancy Perkins and I live onLong Island in the New York
metropolitan area.
I live in a suburb, live andwork in a suburb which is about
an hour or so outside of NewYork City.
I have a Master of Social Workdegree from Adelphi University
(02:06):
and I am a New York Statelicensed master level social
worker and I have a variety ofsocial work experiences.
I've worked with differentpopulations, but special needs,
children with special needs,learning disabilities,
developmental disabilities it'salways pulled me like a magnet,
even before I became a parent.
(02:26):
My child has what we call levelone autism, what in the olden
days used to be known asAsperger's syndrome.
I have 11 and a half years ofexperience working in a special
education preschool and thechildren in our preschool they
were kind of a mix ofdisabilities.
We actually we had very many,many medically fragile children,
(02:50):
children that were tube fed,children that had seizure
disorders.
Speaker 1 (02:55):
I'm fascinated by your background because I
connect a lot with you on a lotof things working in kids with
special needs, working inchildcare, all those kinds of
things.
What led you to decide I needto be, I need to advocate for
these kids outside of a job.
Working for somebody else, what, what was that brain change?
What led you to that decision?
Speaker 2 (03:15):
I don't think it was one particular thing.
When I think about it, I thinkit was.
It was a series of moves thathappened in the different
populations that I worked in.
It just it kept happening overand over, over and over again.
That began to plant seeds.
(03:38):
So this took, this all took along time.
So you know, it's all of this,it's not even 1990.
And I got my degree in 1989.
And so I was moving along andin the early 90s I had gone to
work in the special educationpreschool.
We did screenings for kids tosee if they qualified for
(04:00):
services and if, after we hadour meeting to discuss
evaluation results, the schoolpsychologist and I would do what
we called an informing and wewould give our recommendations.
So when I was working in theschool for 11 and a half years
(04:20):
by then, I was very, very, veryinvolved in that half years.
Speaker 1 (04:23):
By then I was very, very, very involved in that as a
parent, hearing from somebodyyour child is diagnosed or
labeled, however you want to sayit with this.
Sometimes it's a shock to theparent, even though you would be
like how did they not know this?
How could you not see it?
It's really obvious.
But as a parent, to maybesuspect it or not be aware of it
(04:45):
at all and then get a diagnosis, or here's what we need to
recommend based on thisassessment we've done of your
child, that can be a reallyemotional moment for families to
have somebody who knows whatthey're talking about and is
skilled in it and you help kindof ease that for the parent,
because that's hard to hear.
That's hard to hear.
You know it's nice to knowthere's somebody out there like
(05:06):
you that can help families withthat.
You know those changes thathappen.
And then you know I've had togo up against the schools myself
and we talked about that beforeand I'm not going to detail
here, but multiple times I'vehad to go up and advocate for my
child with the schools, and notthat they're, not that I'm
bashing schools at all, becausewhat I told the teachers when I
(05:26):
had to meet with them that dayis.
We're a team.
It's our job to work togetherto meet this child's needs.
It's not just yours, just mine.
We're a team.
We have to work together tomake this work.
So tell me how you.
Well, let's back up.
Tell our listeners what exactlyyou do with the family.
Say I'm a family and I come toyou and I say, nancy, my son's
(05:49):
just been diagnosed with autismand he's in second grade and the
school's talking to me aboutthis thing called IEP and I
don't know what that means.
I don't know what I, what I do,what services is my child
entitled to.
So kind of, take it from thereand riff on telling us what it
is you do and how you handle it,how people find you.
Speaker 2 (06:09):
Well, how people find me is, excuse me, I have a
Facebook page special needs pro,okay, and I also have a website
by by the same name and I'm onthreads.
If somebody and I also, Iengage.
I'm on a lot of different pagesspecial needs, parents pages
and I'll answer people'squestions.
(06:30):
If somebody says that you knowwhat the scenario that you just
presented, what I do is, I'vebegun to really assume nothing
and start from scratch.
And I will ask them I'll say,has your child had an evaluation
(06:50):
through the school district?
And it depends on what theanswer is.
If they say, well, no, and thisis just hypothetical I'll say
to them well, you need to make arequest in writing.
And what I always say to themwell, you need to make a request
in writing.
And what I always say toparents constantly is when
you're making such a request andyou're communicating, always do
(07:12):
it in writing.
There are two reasons for that.
One of them is people are verybusy and they and they forget.
You can't.
You know everybody's very busy.
But also there is a saying thatif it wasn't written, then it
wasn't said.
There's a very famous specialeducation lawyer by the name of
(07:34):
Pete Wright and he's a he's anabsolute rock star.
He lectures, he has anewsletter, his rights law
newsletter, and that's I thinkthat's where I read the saying
from.
If it wasn't written, then itwasn't said.
And lawyers probably say thatall the time Documentation,
honey, documentation iseverything.
(07:55):
And so you know, the email isproof positive, you have the
timestamp and you make therequest you are requesting, you
want the consent, you want yourchild evaluated.
Let's say, for instance, youthink the child has a speech
delay.
You're requesting apsychological evaluation,
educational evaluation, speechand language, if you think,
(08:17):
maybe a problem with fine motorskills, like you know, with
fingers, hands, occupationaltherapy.
Now I'm going to backtrack fora second, because this is
something I've heard.
I've heard people have said oh,but his teacher said his speech
is fine and he understands them.
It's speech and language,because it's not just
(08:39):
articulation, it's not justabout do they stutter,
disfluency, it's about what doyou understand, what are they
understanding?
What are they perceiving theperception.
So you make these requests, thedistricts.
The clock starts ticking.
Once that request goes out, theclock begins to tick and they
have a certain number of days toeither grant your request or
(09:05):
they say no.
But they can't just say no,sorry, we're too busy.
If they say no, they have toprovide you with something
called a prior written notice,which in Pennsylvania they call
it a NOREP.
What is it?
Notice?
I forgot what the acronymstands for, but, and it goes by
different names but the priorwritten notice is something that
(09:27):
takes place, that is generatedwhen an action has taken place,
when it's accepted or refused,and it's an explanation as to
why we're going to do this orwe're not going to do this, so
that you know and they can'tjust stop you in the hall or
call you on the phone and say,ah, we decided we don't need to
do it.
No, that doesn't it writing?
Speaker 1 (09:46):
Oh yeah, oh yeah, can I compare and appeal it?
Okay, I'm getting to that.
Okay, I'm going to get to that.
Speaker 2 (09:53):
So if they say you know what speech and language,
nah, he's fine.
No, no, he doesn't really needit.
You can oh, you're alsosupposed to be given a document
it's about 49 pages or so calleda procedural safeguards notice.
It's from your state.
That's a very thick document,but it explains what your rights
(10:17):
are.
So if they say no in the priorwritten notice, you can say, oh,
you don't think he needs aspeech therapy evaluation.
Oh, you know what?
I am making a request inwriting for an independent
educational evaluation forspeech.
That is when the speech therapyor there are other evaluations
(10:41):
you can ask for, but only oneper year.
That is something paid for atpublic expense.
Speaker 1 (10:47):
So that's done by an independent person, not within
the school system, and theschool has to pay for it.
Just want to be clear withpeople listening.
Speaker 2 (10:55):
Okay, the person is, they're not employed by the
school district, but they areunder contract.
So either they will either payfor it or, in the case of we
have a case of aneuropsychologist out here you
have to right now.
You have to pay him up frontand wait to get reimbursed.
You have to right now.
You have to pay him up frontand wait to get reimbursed.
Speaker 1 (11:16):
But all these evaluations are needed for the
child's benefit, to determinewhat services then the school is
responsible for providing.
That then will be going to thedocument, the IEP.
So tell people what an IEP is.
We have a lot of people who arenot familiar with this
terminology.
So explain what an IEP is forus.
Speaker 2 (11:35):
One more thing before I explain the IEP.
If you ask for an independenteducational evaluation the
district they only have twochoices.
That's another case of youcan't say sorry.
They either grant it and giveyou a list of providers and you
don't have to choose the list ofproviders, or they say no,
(12:00):
we've decided, you know,according to our PWN, and we're
going to take you to due processbecause we think everything is
fine Now.
An IEP stands for IndividualizedEducation Program.
What it means is that you haveto look at what are, first of
all, what are the child's needs?
What do you know, based on theevaluations that we have, what
(12:23):
are his needs?
What you know?
What's going on?
How did he score?
And not just academics, butsocial, emotional.
Is there some behavioral?
Is there anything we saw withexecutive functioning?
So then now, how do we putgoals together?
What do we do as far as that'sconcerned?
And the very last thing we comeup with is placement.
(12:47):
A big thing and parents haveheard this is that they've heard
this in meetings oh sorry,tough luck, we don't have that
here.
We'll just we'll have to putyou in this placement, and so we
don't do that.
Here is not, you know, if it'snot in your district and you
really cannot service the childin your district, then the onus
(13:09):
is on the district to look foran appropriate out
ofof-placement district for thechild.
You know so you can't say wedon't do that here.
It's very difficult, you knowit's very.
It is the only way I can putthat.
It's just hard for everybody.
Speaker 1 (13:28):
It is.
I can see why.
I hear a lot from teachers inthe public school system who
have children placed in theirclassrooms or have terrible
behavioral needs.
They're not, they're not ableto met in the classroom.
They're extremely disruptive tothe whole classroom.
And then the teacher's like wehave to evacuate all the kids
out of the room for this onechild throwing a fit in our room
.
So again it goes back to theseexpectations on these teachers
(13:52):
who don't have the skills andthe training they need to best
meet that child's needs, andit's not fair to the teacher,
it's not fair to the child, it'snot fair to the other children
in the classroom.
It's a tough spot sometimes,it's just a tough position to be
in all around, but that's whythey have people like you so
back up.
So just so people are clear, Iwant to make sure everyone's
(14:12):
clear you are now on on your own.
You have your own business,special Needs Pro, and so people
contact you and they pay you tobe like the liaison, to review
notes.
Tell us what all you do whenpeople are hiring you to to
advocate for their child is.
Speaker 2 (14:32):
I will ask if, assuming somebody has an IEP and
, let's say, a meeting is comingup, I'll say please send me the
most recent IEP and any reportsthat you have, medical reports
or you know anything outside ifyou had an outside neuropsych
eval, you know and I'll ask themto send me pertinent documents
(14:53):
and I review everything and Icause I, I'm looking for red
flags.
We, my colleagues and I, wehave our, our recommendations,
but I'll look for red flags inIEPs and I'll see things like
things that don't make sense.
I've seen the wrong child'sname on IEPs more more than once
, where it get finds its wayinto a report where you can tell
(15:14):
it's been cut and pasted, youknow, and it's just wait a
minute, wait a minute and I'llcircle it and I make no bones,
I'll bring it up at the meetingand I will say to the
administrator the wrong name isthere.
I'll say to the parentbeforehand the wrong name is in
the report and so they have tofix it.
No-transcript said no, thankyou.
(16:08):
I said no.
No, I'm not an attorney, notnot an attorney, I just have to.
I said I'm an advocate.
I don't want to mislead anybody.
There are times when it getsadversarial and they need an
attorney and I'll send them toone, but I won't.
I'm not going to practice lawwithout a license.
The other thing, too, is thatif I can't do something for them
(16:29):
, I'll tell them.
I had a phone call.
A woman called me and she saidcan you get my child into
private school?
And she sounded veryenthusiastic and I went and I
said no, I it doesn't work thatway.
What do you mean?
And I explained, and I and shesaid I don't like my child's
(16:52):
school.
And she mentioned a schooldistrict like an hour or so east
of me.
I don't like my school, I wantto put her in private school.
And I said well, I said there'sa whole process to it and I
explained the process.
I said if you want to, if youwant your district to pay for it
, you have to take your districtto what's called due process.
(17:15):
You have to hire an attorneyand it's expensive for her.
I said if I could make iteasier, I would.
I said, but it's.
(17:40):
I said I'm not going to tellyou that I can do something that
I can't do.
She was so disappointed.
Speaker 1 (17:47):
Okay, let me ask you this, a couple questions about
that.
So the parents contact you,they either have an IP or they
don't.
If not, you advise them to getthat process rolling with an IP.
Then, if they're coming to themeeting, you'll sit in on the
meeting, you'll review the notes, you'll go to the meeting with
Zoom.
I know you're based in New York, but you can consult with
(18:07):
people all over America, allover the United States.
Oh yeah, so you can even sit inon meetings virtually Sure,
virtually Sure.
Okay, what happens if you get afamily and I'm sure this happens
where, like, the mom is like anagreement, but the dad, so the
mom and dad are not on the samepage but their child needs?
I know sometimes parents are indenial about.
(18:27):
I mean, I know an instanceright now of a friend who has a
child in a preschool setting andthe clearly this little boy in
the classroom has some seriousissues going on and mom is
agreeing to get him evaluatedand dad said no, absolutely not.
There's nothing wrong with thiskid when it's like red flags
are dancing all over the place.
So you deal with a situationlike that when you have a client
(18:48):
that comes to you, wants yourhelp to go to the school system
to advocate for their child, butdad's like no, we don't need it
, we're fine, the kid's fine.
What happens?
What do you?
Speaker 2 (18:55):
do.
I've had that discussion withcolleagues.
I would not.
If there's that much of adisagreement, I'm not going to.
I'm not going to take that case.
I would not, I wouldn't.
Somebody that I know who is aspecial ed lawyer said well, ask
them to show you who hasdecision-making authority as far
(19:18):
as education is concerned.
Speaker 1 (19:20):
It's like a divorced family.
Speaker 2 (19:22):
Yeah, right, if it's a divorced family.
Speaker 1 (19:26):
Mom's all for it, but dad's like no, he's fine.
So then the lawyer'srecommending you find out which
one of those parents has theauthority to make the decision
for the education of the child.
Speaker 2 (19:36):
Right in a divorce.
This is one of my special edlawyer who's local to me, said
that.
Honestly, to tell you the truth, I did agree with that advice.
I don't now because I just Ithink that even if something is
on paper I don't, I I wouldn'ttake the case.
(19:58):
I did have a phone call from amother where the parents they
were not divorced and I thinkthey lived under the same roof.
But she agreed and he didn't,and it turned out that it was.
It was during the summer and Iactually I was not feeling well,
(20:18):
I had just broken my toe and Iwas in a lot of pain and it was
the.
I just had to take a few daysoff.
So I wasn't taking that caseanyway.
And I said you know what, I'mnot taking that case because
they're going to everything wasan argument in terms of that
family I'm'm not.
If I see any fissures, any kindof any trouble on the horizon,
(20:43):
I'm not going to take the case.
Another thing as well is ifsomeone says to me well, my, you
know, I want to hire you, butmy mother is paying for my
mother is paying your fee, soshe wants to know everything.
No, you know what?
No, I mean family.
(21:04):
Well, families and money getyou know, money is a very it's a
hot issue.
Unless somebody signed arelease, a time limited release,
saying I authorized my mother,jane Smith, to have information.
I'm not taking that either.
I won't.
Speaker 1 (21:21):
But you have to be careful about HIPAA violations
too.
You can't be tellinginformation that's actually.
Speaker 2 (21:26):
it's it's HIPAA's counterpart in education is
FERPA.
So is that?
But it's the.
That's what it is.
I, you know I would, I wouldsign it, but quite frankly, I'm
not.
I don't want to have that, Idon't want to do that.
Speaker 1 (21:40):
A family cannot be on the same page as two.
Bottom line it's what is in thebest interest of the child.
It's not about dad agreeing ornot agreeing, or mom agreeing or
not agreeing.
It's like, whoa, this is ourchild and we need to do what's
best for the child and maybe Idon't think there is anything
wrong.
But at least let's explore youknow what I mean.
(22:00):
Like, let's give the child thebenefit that don't figure out
what's going on here.
So you're right, it's not worththe time you're going to have
to invest in managing theirdisagreements or their
disruption to try to figure thisout for the family, for the
child.
Speaker 2 (22:17):
It's not worth it.
No, I'm not, I'm not, and right, because there is enough.
It's enough of a stressor todeal with the district and in
certain cases Now one of mycolleagues, who is I respect
more than I can say, mentions,talks about that when we have
(22:39):
all of our ducks, have the dataon our side, obviously you know
it's going.
Things are going to go muchbetter.
(23:01):
With that said and I said thisto her and I had disagreed with
her with that said personalitiesare personalities and if you
have someone who's anadministrator, who is just
argumentative or is having a badday, it can still be a
stressful meeting.
Speaker 1 (23:20):
I, as a parent, have never, I have never found it
smooth sailing, never never,especially when you're saying to
an administrator but by federallaw you're required to provide
these services and the ministryis going that's great, but we
don't have money in our budget,the school system doesn't give
us money, and so then it comesdown to money.
Speaker 2 (23:42):
Sometimes, quite honestly, it always comes down,
always, always money, alwaysmoney, and they get agitated
because oh, here we go, now wehave to provide this for this
child.
Speaker 1 (23:53):
We don't have the money.
Where am I supposed to pull themoney?
Who am I pulling the money from?
And then no wonder they getargumentative sometimes.
And I will tell you.
My sister told me that years agoshe taught kindergarten and she
had a child in her class andshe clearly realized there was
some issues.
And there was an IEP meetingand my sister was heading into
the IEP meeting and theassistant principal called her
(24:13):
over and said if the parentdoesn't mention that they want
these services, don't tell themabout them, because they didn't
want to have to pay.
And my sister was appalledbecause here she has a child at
home with special needs andshe's being told don't tell the
parent.
And of course she went and toldthe parent on the slide, like
you need to ask for these things.
But I mean that's a reality ofwhat happens.
(24:39):
A lot of times the school'slike if they don't know, we're
not telling them because theydon't have the money, they don't
want to have to provide theservices.
So that's why people findsomebody like you and I mean
there are a couple of specialadvocates, special needs
advocates.
I follow on Facebook as well,or Instagram, and it's the same
stories, same stories, andthey're doing this.
They're saying the same things.
Like you're saying, you haverights, your child has rights.
You have to know and you haveto ask for these rights and you
(25:01):
can take you can't take nofinancial all the time.
You can appeal, you can fightback.
You don't have to settle right,you can.
You have to know what you don'tknow, and so that's where
someone like you comes in.
But let me ask you this soyou're private, so people have
to pay you out of pocket to dothis for them.
Do you ever get people going?
Man, you're expensive, or Ican't afford that.
(25:22):
Or what do you say when theycome?
Because I hear that too withsome of my services.
But what's your response tothat?
Speaker 2 (25:28):
During COVID, someone said to me we're in the middle
of COVID, you should do this forfree, Good, one Good.
And I said, well, I said thisis a service and I work very
hard for this.
And I said there is a publicagency that I referred her to,
(25:49):
the public agency that we havelocally that and even they're
not for free, because if you, ifone of their advocates, goes to
a meeting with you, they chargeyou.
It's a nominal fee, but they docharge you.
And I said, well, I said thatis always a choice.
I said, or going onto Facebook,or that's, that's always a
(26:10):
choice.
And she was very, she said all,but she was on a roll.
All these services should befor free.
For for people who say I can'tafford you, I I say I don't do
any kind of sales pitch.
I say, yeah, I commiserate, andI say, yes, life, life is
expensive.
I said, but I'm here if youchange your mind, and so that's
(26:32):
really your response.
Yeah, that's my response.
Speaker 1 (26:36):
They're not only buying your services.
They're buying your years ofexperience, knowledge, and that
is where the power is, becauseyou know how to navigate the
system, you know the ins andouts, you know the laws, you
know what they don't know.
So you're educating the parentas well as sometimes educating
the school system at the sametime.
(26:57):
So they're buying years andyears and years and years of
expertise, and there's value inthat.
And I do the same thing.
People like I have one lady.
I did public speaking aroundthe country years ago and I had
one lady said to me wow, that's,you know, I really can't afford
your fee.
I'll let you stay in my housefor free and we'll do this.
I said you know what Iappreciate all that.
(27:19):
Maybe you could partner withanother agency and split my fee,
or maybe you can just put me onreserve, maybe for next year
when you can, you know, contactme again next year when you can
afford to have me come and speakto your audience or whatever.
And I'm not apologetic, but youknow, I know the value of my
expertise and what I have tooffer, and the same thing with
(27:40):
you.
And sometimes parents can payfor it for you and sometimes
they can't, and then you knowyou're nice enough to refer them
to a public agency that canhelp them no-transcript, gently
(28:41):
throwing it in, and they getvery annoyed.
Yes, because the whole point ofthis is, hopefully, when you're
going to work on behalf of afamily and a child with a school
system, to work on behalf of afamily and a child with a school
system, it's not adversarial,it's, like I said, team approach
.
Okay, we've got it.
The best interest of this childare what we all should be
(29:02):
focusing on and make sure theyget the services they need and
everything that they need isprovided for them.
Not a problem.
But that's not reality A lot ofthe time, a lot of times, going
into a situation where it iscontentious, it is adversarial,
the school does not want to haveto pay for another day gone
thing they don't have the moneyfor, and then you're coming in
as an advocate saying, oh yes,you do, because, uh, let me, let
(29:24):
me get this straight.
Just wasn't that federal law?
I mean, correct me if I'm wrongbut didn't they say?
And so sometimes you have tosugarcoat it and kind of, you
know, get your point across.
But it's not always happy,happy for everybody.
It's not always like win, win.
Sometimes it's like you'rebucking the system and they
don't like it, but they have toprovide.
(29:45):
This is the way it is, so tohave somebody with your skills,
your knowledge, your backgroundthat could go to the parents.
Basically sit back, I've gotthis.
Speaker 2 (29:55):
I mean that's priceless.
Speaker 1 (29:55):
You can't put a price on that.
You really can't.
Because what you do like I saidin the very beginning and to
kind of wrap this all backaround the beginning is what you
do is going to have an impacton that child for life for life.
I mean, I see it with mysister's son and I see all the
advocacy she's done with him andall the things she's had to do
for him, and it impacts not onlythe family, the parents, but
(30:19):
that child.
It can make a difference inthat child's entire life.
And that's powerful, that'sjust powerful and it's worth
every penny you charge as far asI'm concerned, because what are
they going to do otherwise?
Imagine if they don't haveservices like that and their
child doesn't get their needsmet.
Imagine the lifelong impact ofthat.
Speaker 2 (30:41):
You know what?
Here's my response to that.
We have, and you're probablyaware we have a real literacy
crisis in America right now andthese children, they cannot read
and unfortunately, theundiagnosed dyslexic students
grow into dyslexic adults andmany of them are in jail.
(31:04):
Yeah, With the comorbidities ofADHD and dyslexia, they're in
jail, that's what I'm talkingabout.
Speaker 1 (31:12):
They they maybe were not diagnosed, they didn't have
anybody he knew, maybe theirparents didn't know to advocate
for them or didn't realize evenhad an issue, that they had
dyslexia.
You know, maybe it wasn'tdiagnosed till later in life and
there's a lifelong impact thathappened.
That's why I say it's like godbless you for the work that you
do, for these, and I know youhave wonderful success stories.
(31:32):
I'm sure people need to findyou.
Tell us again where they canfind you on Facebook at special
needs pro.
Speaker 2 (31:38):
At special needs pro and on my website
wwwspecialneedspronet.
Speaker 1 (31:45):
Okay, and then they can find you on threads under
special needs program Specialneeds pro yeah, under special
needs pro Okay.
Well, nancy, thank you so muchfor being here today.
I'm just, I'm pumped for whatyou do.
Thank you Personally.
Get that, I totally get this.
I've been, you've been on theteacher's side and been on the
parent's side, and you know I, Itotally get it.
(32:05):
And so I think what you do isso valuable and just keep
fighting.
I mean just keep fighting andadvocating for these kids and
these families, because what youdo is powerful.
Thank you, I will.
I will.
Speaker 2 (32:16):
Awesome.
Good talking to you Same here.
Thank you so much.
Speaker 1 (32:22):
Thank you for tuning in to today's episode of Common
Sense Parenting with Pam.
I hope you enjoyed the episodeand, if you did, please leave a
review.
That helps other parents findus, and if you have friends who
also have children and could usesome parenting tips, feel free
to share this.
I would really appreciate it,and you know I love to hear from
you, so you can always find meon my socials.
(32:42):
And until then, remember, hugand love your babies.
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