August 15, 2023 • 45 mins
President and CEO of Empowering Differences, Ashley T. Brundage, is back for another episode of Communicate Like You Give A Damn with Kim Clark! In continuing their conversation surrounding “Empowering Differences,” Ashley and Kim dive deep into the intricate world of DEI messaging in the realm of branding, marketing and corporate communications. Together they uncover the alignment within organizations in order to strengthen the impact of DEI messaging while learning how to navigate political differences in the workplace constructively. Their conversation also explores how to shift corporate messaging from performative to meaningful as it relates to organizational gestures, developing inclusive environments and even in the context of events such as Pride.
About The Guest:
Ashley T Brundage is the President & CEO of Empowering Differences. While seeking employment at a major financial institution, she self-identified during the interview process as a woman of transgender experience and subsequently was hired. Starting as a part time teller she rose to VP, Diversity and Inclusion in less than 5 years. She captured this 4-step process of empowerment to cultivate change in her new book and online course. Ashley credits her success to those closest to her for providing actionable allyship including her 2 teenage sons, Bryce and Blake.
Since beginning transitioning in 2008, she has worked tirelessly to promote awareness and acceptance of gender identity and expression. She works to accomplish this goal by volunteering in the community and holding education sessions for corporations.
Ms. Brundage speaks locally and nationally about her transition, empowerment, workplace equality, leadership, and diversity, equity & inclusion. She has also been interviewed in several publications and media outlets, including Tampa Bay Times, The Business Journal, The Miami Herald, Fox, ABC, CBS, Las Vegas Review Journal, Milwaukee Biz Times, the Daily Beast, Fairygodboss, InStyle Magazine, BBC World Service Radio, Bloomberg Businessweek, Business Insider, and Forbes while being named their compassionate leader award. She approaches her advocacy and empowerment work very apolitically, and this is evident as in 2022 she served on a committee for the Biden White House and won an award from Florida Governor Ron DeSantis as a community spirit award for her commitment to women and girls in Florida.
Find Ashley Here:
About Kim:
Kim Clark (she/her) focuses her work on the communicator and content creator's role in diversity, equity, and inclusion (DEI). She is the co-author of The Conscious Communicator: The fine art of not saying stupid sh*t, an Amazon #1 bestseller and the leading voice for DEI communications and social justice messaging for brands.
She speaks at conferences, writes custom workshops, writes inclusive communications guides, and consults with companies on all things related to diversity, equity, and inclusion communications. Kim is a member of the LGBTQ+ community, a cisgender woman, Native American (Muscogee Nation) and a mom of two kids with disabilities. These marginalized identities and the privileges that come with society seeing her as White motivate her daily for social change.
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Kim Clark (00:03):
We are here with Ashley. Ashley. This is actually
part two to our conversation. SoI really encourage people. If
you haven't listened to partone, please do listen to part
one, because she kind of left uswith a cliffhanger there. And
then it's made me say, I wantmore. And so here we are, I'm
(00:24):
picking it up again, Ashley,just refresh everyone's memory,
like, give us a little bit of anintroduction to you. And we'll
we're gonna pick up where weleft off.
Ashley T. Brundage (00:33):
Yeah, I mean, I'm the empowerment lady.
And I researched empowerment foreight years, I asked 1000s of
people would empowerment meantto them. And I overcame
harassment, discrimination andhomelessness, because I decided
to empower all 10 of my top 10differences that I have as a
(00:54):
human, including my gender,including my educational
background, having dropped outof high school, including my
social economic class have beenhopeless. And choosing to
empower all of my differences iswhat led me to get hired as a
part time associate and thenbecome the National Vice
(01:15):
President of Diversity, Equityand Inclusion and less than four
years for the fifth largest bankin the United States. PNC Bank.
Ah,
Kim Clark (01:25):
Impressive, impressive. Now, you dropped in
there this kind of time in yourlife where you said that you
were homeless? Can you sharewith us a little bit about what
that situation was? And whatthat experience was like?
Ashley T. Brundage (01:39):
Yeah, um, it was kind of interesting in the
fact that most of the time whenpeople are homeless, you're
navigating you, I guess, is thething that most people think
about. But really, it was fourmouths to feed, and, and then
also shielding that from my kidswere like, I was talking to my
(02:03):
youngest, because he came in towatch me present at American
Airlines last year. And he said,I didn't even know we won't be
home. It's like, well, that Idid my job. I shielded it from
you. And yeah, I mean, we wouldgo to the dentist can store and
(02:26):
the soup kitchen and eventswhere we knew that we're going
to be food in the church eventsthat we're giving out food and,
and trying to defray costs. Andthen we were really fortunate in
the fact that we were living ina house, a whole entire
community that was decimatedfrom people losing their house.
So we were squatting illegallyas long as we could. And when we
(02:49):
knew that somebody was coming,when we went out that night, or
we went somewhere else. And thenwe came back. So yeah, I mean,
we were really purposeful to tryto, like high a high in that for
my kids, to where they weren'tnecessarily exposed to that.
Kim Clark (03:08):
And what did that do for you, as far as moving
towards becoming VP of PNC? Ithink
Ashley T. Brundage (03:18):
it taught me to be super. Yeah, it taught me
to be super resourceful,especially in the DIY space,
where most like 80%, the DIpeople that are out there are
doing VI is one person. And wecan't be all things to all
people. And then a lot of theother percentage of people have
(03:38):
either little budget or verylittle budget. So I can tell you
that it taught me to beresourceful as heck, and trying
to find the ability to pay forthings and, and be able to make
things work financially. Becauseat the end of the day, you had
(03:58):
your only get out of what youcan get out of something.
Kim Clark (04:03):
And also, it helps give people a picture of like,
you know, some of us are just apaycheck away. You know, we're
so on the fringe of it all. Andthat's something that diversity,
equity inclusion within theworkplace is trying to solve for
it's one of the many things thatit's trying to solve for is to
get people in stronger financialposition, so they don't have to
(04:24):
go through that experience.
Ashley T. Brundage (04:26):
Yeah, I mean, I think it's the
difference in and how peoplereceive equity, and how they
measure it themselves. You know,a lot of my program, right and
so on. And I missed this in theintroduction, but I run my own
leadership company. And wemeasure how empowered people are
one of the questions we asked ishow empowered you are for your
(04:46):
social economic class. And areyou empowered or disempowered?
Where do you fit on a zero to100 scale of your social
economic class and power? Am Iasking people that ultimately
what we're doing As we'regetting at the end of the day,
how they feel about their payequity.
Kim Clark (05:08):
And you have the experience of feeling
disempowered at one point, andthen now in an empowerment place
where you're running your owncompany, it's really an
incredible arc in the AppleStore. Thank you. So where we
left off with, which was thecliffhanger that you left me
hanging with is that you hadmentioned that coke doesn't sell
(05:29):
the same taste around the worldthat there's a nuance, and I
need to be learning about thisfrom a dei messaging standpoint.
So tell me more about that. Whatthat looks like for you in
practice.
Ashley T. Brundage (05:44):
So coke doesn't all so Coca Cola, right?
Like, literally doesn't sellcoke the same way, anywhere in
the world may not only mark itdifferently, and communicated
differently, but even tastedifferently depending upon where
you go in the world. I know thatI spend a lot of time in Asia
(06:04):
and coke tastes differently. InAsia, it's marketed different.
The bottles cans different andthen if you right I know a lot
of people, probably us drivenfocus for di you know, and that
terminology, a lot of peoplelike I think you could buy
(06:27):
Mexican Coke, right? Likeliterally comes in a glass
bottle. It tastes completelydifferent than the coke that you
would buy in the United Statesin grocery store. The Coke you
get at McDonald's tastedifferently than the coke you
get at Burger King. That'sbecause the way that McDonald's
invests in refrigeration unitsfor the lines of the of the
(06:48):
syrup that goes into the Coke,so,
Kim Clark (06:51):
okay, detention like that. That's amazing. Okay.
Ashley T. Brundage (06:55):
I went to McDonald's University. So I
know. It's very different. Soyou, you have this right. So why
is it that a brand like CocaCola is so globally recognized,
right? And people across theworld understand and know and
(07:15):
relate that product? Why is itthat they can get this concept
of globalization and marketingand product development, and yet
here and in relation todiversity, equity inclusion, we
don't get it. That's the thingthat's so frustrating to me,
because we think that we canjust say, diversity, equity and
(07:38):
inclusion and reach everybody,we are sorely mistaken. Thinking
about it from a Coca Cola lens,in marketing, and even making it
taste differently, right. Now,maybe the taste part might be
different, right? That would befor us that learned behavior or
the knowledge that skate that'swhat you gained from that, that
(08:01):
delivery of the products, right?The product is diversity, equity
and inclusion, how are you goingto market that to make it
palatable for everybody, when weare all so different? This is
literally why my company iscalled empowering differences.
(08:24):
Because empowerment is importantto every single person on the
planet. And it's a tell youknow, then they just don't
really understand whatempowerment is. And then
everybody on the planet has thedifferences that that we
measure. So there's no twopeople are inherently alike
(08:44):
either. So from a standpoint ofmarketing, diversity, equity
inclusion, you have theopportunity to think about this
differently. And so that meansyou need to look at it or the
way in which your branding andmarketing communicating it and
thinking completely different.
Kim Clark (09:04):
Great point, it really is a great point and to
be thinking of it as as with thelevel of investment because
we're that the research is done.The measurement is there, the
ROI is calculated andforecasted. D is no different.
We just have to do it.
Ashley T. Brundage (09:23):
So I have a really great story on this topic
of all right. So I'm sure thatsome of your listeners have
heard of this before. But haveyou ever had it to where you
stripped away information fromhiring someone? The identifying
information, right? You don'tput their name. So if it says
(09:48):
whatever their name is, right,if it's a name that someone
can't pronounce in America,there's a good chance that that
person could face someunconscious bias Right? Right.
We agree on that. Okay, so ifyou remove the name, and then
you remove where they went toschool, right, because sometimes
that could also identify whothis person is, right? If they
(10:10):
went to a historically blackcollege and university or you
name it, any other identifyingtype of school that would
identify what community they'refrom. So we strip away the
school name, we strip away thename, and, and then, you know,
we we have then then theirresume is revealed. Right? This
(10:31):
is a practice that people havebeen trying to work on
developing more. Well, whatabout doing that for diversity,
equity inclusion programming. Iknow personally, for me, I
removed i got i We do an event,right? We do an event for
(10:51):
history and heritage month. Thisis this is what ends up
happening, right? They, acompany says, Hey, let's do
Pride Month. And let's bring ina speaker for Pride Month. You
know, we're gonna celebratePride. With Ashley T Brundage,
we're gonna celebrate Pride andempower. And don't get me wrong.
(11:13):
I'm really glad that we're doingthat because it helps fund my
business venture to grow mycompany and, and feel the
empowerment assessment tool thatI've been building version to.
Kim Clark (11:25):
More people. Yes, exactly.
Ashley T. Brundage (11:28):
Right. But at the end of the day, I mean,
pride is every day of LGBTQpeople are operating every day.
And and we we know all that. Soyou know, we have this thing
where we build a communicationflyer Ashley's coming to x x x o
company, and and there I am, I'mshowing them. And so here's the
(11:50):
flyer, you know, it's power,your pride, its pride month,
we're going to put a rainbow onthe flyer, my photo is going to
be there, it's going to talkabout, you know, maybe some of
my credentials. And, and, andthen there's going to be the
Employee Resource Group logo,right, this communication
platform is going to have all ofthis information right? date,
(12:13):
the time, the WHO THE where thewhen the why all of that is
going to be on the flyer. But atthe end of the day, right, how
is someone who is not pluggedinto the LGBT network going to
want to come to this? Are wecommunicating this message to
(12:33):
all people in the organization?Is it landing forever?
Kim Clark (12:40):
Or it's making it super easy to opt out?
Ashley T. Brundage (12:44):
Right, right. I mean, literally laying
the foundation for an opt out,right? Because I want to be
there that I'm not going to Idon't want to listen to the to
try to engender a person, randomtransgender person you're
bringing in to talk to talk tothe organization. This is why
Kim Clark (13:02):
I always for me, it's for them, you know, kind of
thing. Yeah.
Ashley T. Brundage (13:06):
This is why I always try to tell
organizations at the end of theday, you have an opportunity to
bring in someone like me, not inthat context, think about the
communication of what you coulddo, you actually could create a
flyer that would say, ourmonthly lessons in leadership or
our monthly leadership dialoguesession, because leadership is
(13:29):
the word that transcends alldifferences in organizations.
This is why I rebranded mycompany, for me being the DNI,
speaker. To me being theleadership and empowerment
expert, I wanted to be in thatspace, because I felt that
(13:50):
that's where I can can do moresystemic impact. And people who
show up to talk, you know,people who are going to show up
to attend a pride event whereI'm speaking at, think about who
that audience is going to be.It's going to be the
marginalized community. So thepride group is going to be
(14:11):
there, right? The allies of theof the private group are going
to be there the executive to sayhello and goodbye. And then
that's about going to be 97 98%of the people that are there.
You're going to get a maybe atwo or 3% clip of people who are
there for like five differentreasons. And most of the time,
the reasons that they're thereare pretty disingenuous. They're
(14:33):
there because somebody told themthey mandatorily had to be
there. Somebody brought them asa guest. They're there
specifically for the food or thetrinket that they're gonna get.
They're there because they cameby accident. And then my
favorite there they are becausethey want to meet the executive
(14:54):
and show the executive thattheir name was on the Zoom
meeting. And they're gettingFaceTime and they're going Isn't
that credit to say they'rechecking the box to say that
they were there, that's notgonna be an event that really
does deep systemic change. Thisis why it's so important to
communicate your event and aframework that's going to reach
(15:17):
everybody. And sometimes thatmeans that you might have to
make two flyers for this event,and market it differently, just
the same way that coat marketsthis differently. So instead of
the flyer that has my picture,maybe you make another flyer
that says, join us for ourleadership, monthly leadership
(15:38):
discussion, where and you putthe president chairman and
executive officers picture onthe flyer, because most of the
time, that's going to be a whitestraight male guy. have his
picture beyond the flyer andhave it be join the because
that's the person that's goingto give the opening remarks if
you're not misrepresenting theevent. And have that be the
(16:02):
person on the fly? Yeah, andthen you can add other stuff and
strip away the identifyinginformation about who I am, and
the ERG logos, strip all thatstuff away. Make two flyers. All
right.
Kim Clark (16:18):
It's really, you know, and I've had several
calls, as of late for all thepride talks that I'm I'm doing
in June as well. And it's, youknow, one client was like, we
just started a month and a halfago with our pride group. You
know, what you because I wasasking them, What are your
communication objectives forthis, you know, session, etc.
And one of the things I saidwas, they said, what, what do
(16:41):
you what do you think we shouldbe doing and nice when you as a
startup kind of employeeresource group? And I said,
Well, it starts with whatproblem while you're solving,
why did you start the group, ifit's to bring the community
together, because there'snowhere else to go, and they
need a safe haven, you need asupport group, because it's
frickin scary out there, ifyou're LGBTQ plus right now, and
we're gonna get to talking aboutFlorida, because that's where
(17:02):
you're based. And, you know, soit's like, okay, that has its
own purpose. And there's a waythat I would approach that
session, do we want actually tomake the workplace more safe? If
so, then I'm going to be talkingto the allies. And I'm going to
be talking about what ourexperience is like. And if you
want me to help recruit, becauseyou're a brand new employee
(17:25):
resource group, I can do that aswell recruit, as far as inviting
people to participate in theemployee resource group to learn
more, get involved, get engaged,you know, to the issues that are
facing this, this population. Sothey're different to your point,
those those are differentpurposes and different problems
(17:45):
that we're solving for thatrequire targeted messaging with
with unique calls to action.Now, you had mentioned in our
last conversation that when youwere at PNC, you had a DI
communications person that wasbasically part of your team are
assigned to you as this VP, yourrole as VP of diversity, equity
(18:09):
and inclusion. So I would assumethat these are the kinds of
conversations with with themarketing of the events, etc,
that you had these kinds ofconversations with his
diversity, equity inclusioncommunications person. So can
you talk a little bit more aboutwhat that partnership that
relationship was like? And whatyou really needed from that
person in order to further yourefforts and tell the story
(18:32):
around the EI at PNC?
Ashley T. Brundage (18:34):
Yeah. So the our comms person on the team is
the one that would produce theannual report, or at least our
portion towards the annualreport at the time, they would
manage the website, because wehad an internal website. And
then we also have an externalwebsite. The bulk of what they
(18:58):
would do, though, a lot of timeswas managing our relationship
with corporate communications.Okay, because Corporate
Communications had someone justhad someone designated for HR.
And their HR person, in essenceis the one that was managing all
of HR comms, well, when 2020happened, let's just say that
(19:25):
our our comms became comms forthe entire company. And, and
obviously, that coincided bothwith COVID, but also the murder
of George Floyd, beingCenterpoint amongst things that
were discussed on the internetfor the company. So what this
(19:47):
role really was designed to kindof manage the website comms
communications, printing,materials, that kind of stuff.
Then it became more about beingIn the middle point between the
corporate communications personand the team, but what I saw was
that I needed to have more of adirect connection with the
(20:10):
corporate communications person,because it, there was a, you
know, the more people you havein between. And then on
communication, when you'retrying to literally paint the
communication for someone, thatbecomes a little bit harder. And
so I found it to be a little bitof mail in some ways that made
the job harder. Having thatdedicated person that was the
(20:33):
new person between the twoconversations. So at times, I
started having side dialoguesessions with HR comms person.
And then this even got morecomplicated when we left HR. And
we became not a part of HRanymore. And we went into our
(20:56):
own business units. And then wegot our own business unit comms
person for corporateresponsibility, which was a
collection of three differentbusiness units in the company.
So that then changed the germscommunication message
drastically as well set and, andrequired a lot of changes around
(21:17):
because now, you know, it waslike, it's always about
community. It's about competingfor, for real estate on the
internet. That's honestly, whatnot 90% of the conversation was
about trying to get yourinformation on the internet for
the company. Because that isprofit is real estate that's
(21:40):
incredibly valued by all thelines of business. And it's
about trying to kind of juggleall the balls and the hats for
the communication and sensethings that people need to think
about are happening. It's likean argument. who winds up on the
internet, and it's good, butit's real.
Kim Clark (21:56):
Yeah, yeah, that was my world when I was running
internal communications for whenI was in house. Yes. Yes, it was
a constant negotiation.
Ashley T. Brundage (22:05):
Dei, people don't know that or see that
side.
Kim Clark (22:08):
Yeah. Which I can understand. Yeah. Um, you know,
with. We're recording this theday after Ron DeSantis,
announced his presidential run.And so in preparation for the
next cycle of presidentialelections that are going to be
(22:32):
starting next year, but thecampaigns have already started.
We have. For those who can't seeright now, Ashley is doing
breathing techniques. And that'sessentially where I want to go
with this next question is, weas di communicators have got to
get our planning ahead, aroundcivic responsibility, what is
(22:58):
our messaging going to be? Whatis that conversation that we
need to have with our leaders,of course, I would love to see
everybody use the depth modelfrom our book, The conscious
communicator as that guidingframework, but applying your
employee empowering differencesas well. There's differences
with politics and ideologiesthat are playing out within
(23:20):
workspaces right now. And so howis the AI communicators? Do we
get ahead of this? In preparingour workspaces, and leading the
narrative rather than constantlybeing on the knee jerk back end?
Side of of triage and collateraldamage that we're trying to
control? Like we've done in thepast?
Ashley T. Brundage (23:43):
Oh, gosh. Yeah, well, I mean, I think
breathing exercises areimportant in this space,
whenever you're thinking aboutpolitics, because the think that
it doesn't exist in theworkplace is BS. I remember
being the DI person and Novemberof 2016, and everyone was
(24:07):
thinking we were finally goingto break that friggin glass
ceiling, and a woman was goingto be the president. And
instead, we got a reality shotstar move. You know, there was
that. And all of that happenedand people were shocked people
were surprised. And I mean, insome people were having some
(24:30):
people were upset and this goesback to like, so my model is on
measuring how our disempoweredpeople are but it's also about
understanding that authority andpower are connected to people is
actual true empowerment. And thepeople sighs simple. You know
(24:50):
who you are. There are a billionof you on the planet. We got
that we can argue that. Thepower side also can't be our
Dude, because the power itemsare all the tangible business
metric items that you have, youhave your report, right? You
have your ship, shareholderreturn on investment, and you
(25:12):
have, how much time how muchmoney is paid out, right? All
that stuff is never argued.They're factual data that's
audited financials. Okay, gotpower, we got people.
Unknown (25:25):
The authority, on the other hand is where everyone
would emotionally lives in this
Ashley T. Brundage (25:30):
space. I've asked 1000s of people about
their authority. And I can tellyou, I've gotten 1000s of
answers, and they're always alldifferent. But the only thing
that they all have in common isthat they're very hard to
measure and very hard to judge.And people in this space, always
(25:51):
change every single second thatsomething happens to them, their
authority level changes. Whenthe Supreme Court of the United
States of America makes adecision, it either increases
someone's authority or lowersomeone authority, no one
actually really ever stays thesame. Same reason why trying to
acquire work life balance is awasted effort for organizations.
(26:14):
If you are trying to acquirework life balance in this space,
literally through what you howyou want to have emotional time
for what you do, but you want tohave time, that you're also
wasting your time. Because theteeter totter moves, you move
something from one side, then itgoes like that goes like that,
we put something else on it. Sothat's literally the same case
(26:37):
in relation to how our authoritygoes, the election is going to
happen. People are going to getelected, that's going to happen,
you will already know this isgoing to happen. And when it
happens, it's up to you to beready to enact whatever the plan
is regardless. And it needs tomake sure that you value all
(26:59):
people's emotions, because theyexist, there's going to be
people who love one potentialcandidate and people who hate
that same candidate. And knowingthat that's going to happen,
it's going to affect youremployees. So if you think
pullet political differencesdon't count in the workplace,
you're sorely mistaken, you needto have a plan associated to
(27:20):
farming out how people feelabout this. And be understanding
that they are going to be on oneend of the spectrum to the
other. And you do that bymeasuring how empowered people
are. That's the secret. If youmeasure how empowered people
are, you're able to know exactlywhat how they're being impacted.
(27:40):
And then you'll know whatactions you should provide for
them to do.
Kim Clark (27:46):
Thank you for that. I think so many people, they don't
have a plan, they they puttogether like everyone has this
the you know, civic duty, orwe're going to give you the day
off, and we're signing thispledge that it's going to be you
know, employee holiday. But thatdoesn't that's not equitable for
everybody, of course, and it butit stops there. And then they
get surprised like it after the2016 election, for example,
(28:09):
where I was working in house, wehad reports of some areas of the
business where people werewalking in with the red Magga
hats and fights would ensue.And, and I felt like we needed
to be ahead of this, we neededto foster some sort of an
environment around intentionallydesigning our culture to allow
(28:30):
these differences and to bewithin the values of the
company. And so I reallyappreciate you giving this like
clear plan. So everyone, likeget Ashley's book empowering
differences and start the work.This is the time to start
planning for something that isgoing to that is going to
further divide if we don't planahead to heal that sense of
(28:52):
separation between now and thenit will will create more, more
damage that we would have tocontrol more collateral damage
of our employees, harming ouremployees. Not just a physical
way but also in an in a in avocal and emotional way. And so
getting ahead of that andsetting the tone for what your
(29:14):
culture stands for and whatyou're about and taking Ashley's
advice. Now Ashley, you are bornand raised in Florida. You're
close to what's going on inFlorida. And so I would love to
hear what I'm and I'm outside ofFlorida. I'm in California and I
(29:35):
would like to know like what canwe do if we're what's going on
in Florida? First of all, youcan kind of give us the inside
scoop. And then what can we doif we are in Florida or if some
of our in our listeners outsideof Florida? What can we do to
help to help?
Ashley T. Brundage (29:53):
Well, I think it stems from back
remembering that empowerment isa political nature.
Understanding that empowermentis a political in nature,
everybody wants it, everybodywill accept empowerment. And if
you leave with empowerment, thenyou can overcome any difference
that people have even politicaldifferences. There's a reason
(30:13):
that in the span of six months,last year, I consulted for the
Joe Biden White House, and I wonan award from the governor of
Florida. It's because I work tomake empowerment a political. So
you can do that chapter, right,in my book is the political
dives into political differencesand provide chatbots. Okay,
(30:35):
yeah, chapter eight in my booktalks about political
differences, because it'simportant, it's important to
know that if you're empoweringpeople, that's a political as
not as not as not part ofpolitics at all. So if you're
thinking about what you can doto help people who might be
marginalized, because I thinkthat that's maybe what you're
getting at. And if you're beingmarginalized, potentially,
(30:59):
you're part of a social identitygroup. That's happening,
whatever you do, don't move.Because that's literally what
they want you to do. They'reliterally trying to force you to
do for population migration.Someone is creating a bill to,
to an S to enact scare tactics,okay. But most of the people who
(31:21):
would be affected from from abill like that will probably
live in a city that already hasan ordinance that protects you,
or they have someone that'ssaying that they're gonna stand
up for you. But you can do thatas well. If you're an ally, and
you're listening, and you'rethinking, What can I do to help
people, you know, stand up andwrite, write the Congress person
(31:41):
and write your Senator, write asmany people as you can write the
ones that aren't yours, becausethe more messages they get
surrounding these topics inthese bills, the more they'll
realize that maybe they shouldhave a dialogue about it, and
learn because I could literallybreak down every single one of
the main myths that exist abouttransgender non binary and
(32:04):
gender non conforming peoplepretty easily. Potentially, if
somebody wanted me to, if theyjust gave me five minutes to
talk to talk about it can tellthem that if it goes back to
being about the right of, of we,the people, we the people, okay,
that doesn't say we the peoplethat only certain people, it's
(32:26):
We the People, as in everybody,and it's individualistic rights,
that is what built our nation,having the ability to have
freedom from oppression, havingthe ability to have freedom of
the ability to make decisions,and have not government
interference upon how you liveyour life, where you go, like
how you use the restroom, andwhat sports you play. All of
(32:49):
those things are about politicalthings that can drive people to
have interference. It's notabout that. It's about freedom
of being the people. That's whatit is, we all will agree on
that. It's We the People Likeliterally, that's an easy
construct that works across allpolitical majors, sometimes just
the nature of the fact thatmaybe somebody who might have a
(33:11):
political difference in youmight not understand your point
of view. So it's aboutcommunication of the point of
view, I think that we have to doa better job of painting that
narrative and communicating
Kim Clark (33:22):
1,000% You know, that earlier this week, I did a an in
person presentation in front ofa fraction of the defense
industry, Department of Defense.And I, you know, they opened up
the entire conferences, day longconference doing the Pledge of
Allegiance. And so I basicallywhen I started my presentation,
(33:47):
I said what are the last fivewords of the Pledge of
Allegiance, liberty and justicefor all? And I said, Do you mean
that because that's the promiseof America, you know, and you
were talking about the way thatpeople and it's like so liberty
and justice for all. It has toplay out through and through
that's what we say. So that'swhat we must do and as
(34:08):
communicators we understand thisbut we're also really wrestling
with that say do gap which we'reseeing because when the time
that we're recording this targetis getting targeted for the
backlash of pulling back pridemerchandise, etc Bud Light
backing up. Miller Lite leaningin you know, there's there's all
(34:30):
kinds of different, you know,shifts and changes going on
right now. But we're reallystruggling with like we stand in
solidarity with the LGBTQ pluscommunity, and yet we're not
able to withstand pressure andbacklash within our stores, etc.
So that was my newsletter topictoday. Actually, we say that we
(34:51):
can stand but we're not able towithstand. I'm going to wrap up
our conversation here, Ashleywith what your guide and advice
would be for folks on ensuringthat pride is not performative.
And if you don't mind speakingspecifically, on ways that we
can provide protections, andmessaging for protections around
(35:15):
transgender rights and rights toexist, etc.
Ashley T. Brundage (35:18):
Yeah, I mean, I think the thing I was
just mentioning is probably thebiggest thing that you can use
research to break down some ofthe Eastern myths that exist.
The biggest thing here is thatthere are laws that already
exist on the books in everysingle municipality in the
United States alone, thatalready protect people from
(35:41):
common decency and indecency andAmerica any other thing in
relation to that, like, ifsomebody's going to expose
themselves, then that's going tobe illegal. I mean, we don't
need an additional bill or pieceof legislation that's going to
protect people further fromthat, because that's already
(36:03):
illegal. And I think that a lotof people don't even realize
that some of these thingsdoesn't make that they don't
make a lot of sense. And it goesback to like parents right to
choose. Parents should have theopportunity to choose what they
do and how they raise theirchildren. government shouldn't
have any interference over that.I think that that's a big thing.
(36:24):
Also, like, you know, if Iwanted to take my kids to drag
queen story hour, that's shouldbe my choice. As a parent, if I
want to take my kids drag thingsdrag me story up. Of course, if
I show up and the drag queen isdressed, lewd and lascivious,
then that's illegal already,regardless of whether there's an
ordinance and and then if Ichoose to take my kids to
(36:47):
Hooters, and taking them toHooters, where the waitresses or
waiters, waitstaff is, issexualized in nature, then so be
it. And then I've chosen to takemy two boys to stratify them. So
I've done that. And I have donethat. And I'm taking them to the
(37:10):
Pride Parade also, and exposethem to the pride parade. And
then it's their choice. It'stheir choice to meet people who
are different, because we areall people. This goes back to
this thing, we have to make surethat we help people understand
that what's going on here iswrong. There's already there's
(37:31):
already bills and laws on thebooks that protect people from
every potential wrong thing thathappens, in fact, we should
probably focus a little bit moreon the clergy officials and
legislative people who've beenarrested are lewd and lascivious
acts, which is a heck of a lotmore than transgender people
(37:52):
who've been arrested.
Kim Clark (37:55):
Thank you, thank you. It's incredibly important. You
know, one of the things that Ialways share with clients are
these three C's. It's a verybasic formula of, of cultural
moments. And and that is firstcelebrate, yes, thank you for
the visibility, appreciate it.But you can't stop there. But
that's where companies they wantto have the goodwill, they want
(38:16):
to, you know, store up thegoodwill score some points, and
they stop at celebrate, theydon't go to the part of the
crisis, or the community of whywe have pride in the first
place. And what is impacting thecommunity that we're
celebrating, right here rightnow. So there are people who are
afraid of going out to prideparades because of their own
safety, and where we are rightnow. So while we want to
(38:41):
celebrate can we celebrate, youknow, safely? So talking about
that crisis, kind of a situationand there's so many there's what
550 bills, anti LGBTQ plus billsacross the country right now.
And then the last is theconsistency don't only talk
about LGBTQ plus folks just inJune, or if you're in the UK in
(39:03):
October, right. And I you know,there's various places that that
that celebrate at differenttimes, but companies tend to in
the US focus on on June. And sothis this idea of like, yes,
there's the celebration, butthere's these other things.
That's where you make that shiftfrom being performative to
meaningful and having impact andreally not just standing as the
(39:27):
target CEO said for the LGBTQplus community, but you're
withstanding any kind ofpressure to not stand with the
LGBTQ plus and so you gotta youhave to put your put your
actions where your mouth is, andwe as communicators can really
drive that conversation becausevisibility drives
accountability. Any finalthoughts Ashley, and then where
(39:49):
can people find you and findyour book?
Ashley T. Brundage (39:53):
Yeah, just I mean, thank thank you for having
me. It's been so good dialogueas they're so important to
helping people realize theactual impacts of their work and
how to communicate it. I thinkthat's really important. I mean,
the communication always reallymatters. I mean, that's what
makes the difference so much.And I call it inspire. And my
framework is how we addresscommunication by inspiring
(40:18):
people. And because obviously,comms is not necessarily always
a sexy word. So that's why wecall it inspire in my framework.
So that's how we driveinspiration. Empowerment for
people is through inspire as anempowering action. That's one of
the 10 actions in my framework.But yeah, you can connect with
(40:42):
me at Ashley T Brundage, a sh,le YTBRU, en da, GE, you can
find me pretty easily when youGoogle my name, you'll see I
have like the first 30 pages ofGoogle.
Kim Clark (40:57):
I saw that Yes.
Ashley T. Brundage (41:00):
Every single one is me. And then you can
connect with my book empoweringdifferences, my leadership
course empowering differences,my workbook empowering
differences, and empoweringdifferences.com. That's your one
stop shop for all thingsempowerment, and where we can
all leverage all of ourdifferences to impact change.
Kim Clark (41:23):
And that's where people can do a self assessment
for free. Is that right?
Ashley T. Brundage (41:27):
Yes, they can download the self assessment
tied to step one and empowermentjourney. If they want to engage
with the digital empowermentassessment to get their
personalized empowerment report.That's actually part of my
career. They have to be involvedin the curriculum for that. But
for the first, the first stepis, yeah, they just click the
(41:47):
Self Assessment tab.
Kim Clark (41:50):
Sweet. Excellent, Ashley. Thank you. It's not
going to be our last timetogether. I know it, we're going
to continue to grow and help asmany people as we can to get
them through probably the mostrecent history, the most
turbulent times at least of mygeneration being Gen X. So thank
you for what you're doing inFlorida. We want you and
(42:12):
everybody within the communitysafe, and we're going to do all
that we can to make sure thatthat happens. Thank you for your
time.
We are here with Ashley. Ashley. This is actually
part two to our conversation. SoI really encourage people. If
you haven't listened to partone, please do listen to part
one, because she kind of left uswith a cliffhanger there. And
then it's made me say, I wantmore. And so here we are, I'm
(00:24):
picking it up again, Ashley,just refresh everyone's memory,
like, give us a little bit of anintroduction to you. And we'll
we're gonna pick up where weleft off.
Ashley T. Brundage (00:33):
Yeah, I mean, I'm the empowerment lady.
And I researched empowerment foreight years, I asked 1000s of
people would empowerment meantto them. And I overcame
harassment, discrimination andhomelessness, because I decided
to empower all 10 of my top 10differences that I have as a
(00:54):
human, including my gender,including my educational
background, having dropped outof high school, including my
social economic class have beenhopeless. And choosing to
empower all of my differences iswhat led me to get hired as a
part time associate and thenbecome the National Vice
(01:15):
President of Diversity, Equityand Inclusion and less than four
years for the fifth largest bankin the United States. PNC Bank.
Ah,
Kim Clark (01:25):
Impressive, impressive. Now, you dropped in
there this kind of time in yourlife where you said that you
were homeless? Can you sharewith us a little bit about what
that situation was? And whatthat experience was like?
Ashley T. Brundage (01:39):
Yeah, um, it was kind of interesting in the
fact that most of the time whenpeople are homeless, you're
navigating you, I guess, is thething that most people think
about. But really, it was fourmouths to feed, and, and then
also shielding that from my kidswere like, I was talking to my
(02:03):
youngest, because he came in towatch me present at American
Airlines last year. And he said,I didn't even know we won't be
home. It's like, well, that Idid my job. I shielded it from
you. And yeah, I mean, we wouldgo to the dentist can store and
(02:26):
the soup kitchen and eventswhere we knew that we're going
to be food in the church eventsthat we're giving out food and,
and trying to defray costs. Andthen we were really fortunate in
the fact that we were living ina house, a whole entire
community that was decimatedfrom people losing their house.
So we were squatting illegallyas long as we could. And when we
(02:49):
knew that somebody was coming,when we went out that night, or
we went somewhere else. And thenwe came back. So yeah, I mean,
we were really purposeful to tryto, like high a high in that for
my kids, to where they weren'tnecessarily exposed to that.
Kim Clark (03:08):
And what did that do for you, as far as moving
towards becoming VP of PNC? Ithink
Ashley T. Brundage (03:18):
it taught me to be super. Yeah, it taught me
to be super resourceful,especially in the DIY space,
where most like 80%, the DIpeople that are out there are
doing VI is one person. And wecan't be all things to all
people. And then a lot of theother percentage of people have
(03:38):
either little budget or verylittle budget. So I can tell you
that it taught me to beresourceful as heck, and trying
to find the ability to pay forthings and, and be able to make
things work financially. Becauseat the end of the day, you had
(03:58):
your only get out of what youcan get out of something.
Kim Clark (04:03):
And also, it helps give people a picture of like,
you know, some of us are just apaycheck away. You know, we're
so on the fringe of it all. Andthat's something that diversity,
equity inclusion within theworkplace is trying to solve for
it's one of the many things thatit's trying to solve for is to
get people in stronger financialposition, so they don't have to
(04:24):
go through that experience.
Ashley T. Brundage (04:26):
Yeah, I mean, I think it's the
difference in and how peoplereceive equity, and how they
measure it themselves. You know,a lot of my program, right and
so on. And I missed this in theintroduction, but I run my own
leadership company. And wemeasure how empowered people are
one of the questions we asked ishow empowered you are for your
(04:46):
social economic class. And areyou empowered or disempowered?
Where do you fit on a zero to100 scale of your social
economic class and power? Am Iasking people that ultimately
what we're doing As we'regetting at the end of the day,
how they feel about their payequity.
Kim Clark (05:08):
And you have the experience of feeling
disempowered at one point, andthen now in an empowerment place
where you're running your owncompany, it's really an
incredible arc in the AppleStore. Thank you. So where we
left off with, which was thecliffhanger that you left me
hanging with is that you hadmentioned that coke doesn't sell
(05:29):
the same taste around the worldthat there's a nuance, and I
need to be learning about thisfrom a dei messaging standpoint.
So tell me more about that. Whatthat looks like for you in
practice.
Ashley T. Brundage (05:44):
So coke doesn't all so Coca Cola, right?
Like, literally doesn't sellcoke the same way, anywhere in
the world may not only mark itdifferently, and communicated
differently, but even tastedifferently depending upon where
you go in the world. I know thatI spend a lot of time in Asia
(06:04):
and coke tastes differently. InAsia, it's marketed different.
The bottles cans different andthen if you right I know a lot
of people, probably us drivenfocus for di you know, and that
terminology, a lot of peoplelike I think you could buy
(06:27):
Mexican Coke, right? Likeliterally comes in a glass
bottle. It tastes completelydifferent than the coke that you
would buy in the United Statesin grocery store. The Coke you
get at McDonald's tastedifferently than the coke you
get at Burger King. That'sbecause the way that McDonald's
invests in refrigeration unitsfor the lines of the of the
(06:48):
syrup that goes into the Coke,so,
Kim Clark (06:51):
okay, detention like that. That's amazing. Okay.
Ashley T. Brundage (06:55):
I went to McDonald's University. So I
know. It's very different. Soyou, you have this right. So why
is it that a brand like CocaCola is so globally recognized,
right? And people across theworld understand and know and
(07:15):
relate that product? Why is itthat they can get this concept
of globalization and marketingand product development, and yet
here and in relation todiversity, equity inclusion, we
don't get it. That's the thingthat's so frustrating to me,
because we think that we canjust say, diversity, equity and
(07:38):
inclusion and reach everybody,we are sorely mistaken. Thinking
about it from a Coca Cola lens,in marketing, and even making it
taste differently, right. Now,maybe the taste part might be
different, right? That would befor us that learned behavior or
the knowledge that skate that'swhat you gained from that, that
(08:01):
delivery of the products, right?The product is diversity, equity
and inclusion, how are you goingto market that to make it
palatable for everybody, when weare all so different? This is
literally why my company iscalled empowering differences.
(08:24):
Because empowerment is importantto every single person on the
planet. And it's a tell youknow, then they just don't
really understand whatempowerment is. And then
everybody on the planet has thedifferences that that we
measure. So there's no twopeople are inherently alike
(08:44):
either. So from a standpoint ofmarketing, diversity, equity
inclusion, you have theopportunity to think about this
differently. And so that meansyou need to look at it or the
way in which your branding andmarketing communicating it and
thinking completely different.
Kim Clark (09:04):
Great point, it really is a great point and to
be thinking of it as as with thelevel of investment because
we're that the research is done.The measurement is there, the
ROI is calculated andforecasted. D is no different.
We just have to do it.
Ashley T. Brundage (09:23):
So I have a really great story on this topic
of all right. So I'm sure thatsome of your listeners have
heard of this before. But haveyou ever had it to where you
stripped away information fromhiring someone? The identifying
information, right? You don'tput their name. So if it says
(09:48):
whatever their name is, right,if it's a name that someone
can't pronounce in America,there's a good chance that that
person could face someunconscious bias Right? Right.
We agree on that. Okay, so ifyou remove the name, and then
you remove where they went toschool, right, because sometimes
that could also identify whothis person is, right? If they
(10:10):
went to a historically blackcollege and university or you
name it, any other identifyingtype of school that would
identify what community they'refrom. So we strip away the
school name, we strip away thename, and, and then, you know,
we we have then then theirresume is revealed. Right? This
(10:31):
is a practice that people havebeen trying to work on
developing more. Well, whatabout doing that for diversity,
equity inclusion programming. Iknow personally, for me, I
removed i got i We do an event,right? We do an event for
(10:51):
history and heritage month. Thisis this is what ends up
happening, right? They, acompany says, Hey, let's do
Pride Month. And let's bring ina speaker for Pride Month. You
know, we're gonna celebratePride. With Ashley T Brundage,
we're gonna celebrate Pride andempower. And don't get me wrong.
(11:13):
I'm really glad that we're doingthat because it helps fund my
business venture to grow mycompany and, and feel the
empowerment assessment tool thatI've been building version to.
Kim Clark (11:25):
More people. Yes, exactly.
Ashley T. Brundage (11:28):
Right. But at the end of the day, I mean,
pride is every day of LGBTQpeople are operating every day.
And and we we know all that. Soyou know, we have this thing
where we build a communicationflyer Ashley's coming to x x x o
company, and and there I am, I'mshowing them. And so here's the
(11:50):
flyer, you know, it's power,your pride, its pride month,
we're going to put a rainbow onthe flyer, my photo is going to
be there, it's going to talkabout, you know, maybe some of
my credentials. And, and, andthen there's going to be the
Employee Resource Group logo,right, this communication
platform is going to have all ofthis information right? date,
(12:13):
the time, the WHO THE where thewhen the why all of that is
going to be on the flyer. But atthe end of the day, right, how
is someone who is not pluggedinto the LGBT network going to
want to come to this? Are wecommunicating this message to
(12:33):
all people in the organization?Is it landing forever?
Kim Clark (12:40):
Or it's making it super easy to opt out?
Ashley T. Brundage (12:44):
Right, right. I mean, literally laying
the foundation for an opt out,right? Because I want to be
there that I'm not going to Idon't want to listen to the to
try to engender a person, randomtransgender person you're
bringing in to talk to talk tothe organization. This is why
Kim Clark (13:02):
I always for me, it's for them, you know, kind of
thing. Yeah.
Ashley T. Brundage (13:06):
This is why I always try to tell
organizations at the end of theday, you have an opportunity to
bring in someone like me, not inthat context, think about the
communication of what you coulddo, you actually could create a
flyer that would say, ourmonthly lessons in leadership or
our monthly leadership dialoguesession, because leadership is
(13:29):
the word that transcends alldifferences in organizations.
This is why I rebranded mycompany, for me being the DNI,
speaker. To me being theleadership and empowerment
expert, I wanted to be in thatspace, because I felt that
(13:50):
that's where I can can do moresystemic impact. And people who
show up to talk, you know,people who are going to show up
to attend a pride event whereI'm speaking at, think about who
that audience is going to be.It's going to be the
marginalized community. So thepride group is going to be
(14:11):
there, right? The allies of theof the private group are going
to be there the executive to sayhello and goodbye. And then
that's about going to be 97 98%of the people that are there.
You're going to get a maybe atwo or 3% clip of people who are
there for like five differentreasons. And most of the time,
the reasons that they're thereare pretty disingenuous. They're
(14:33):
there because somebody told themthey mandatorily had to be
there. Somebody brought them asa guest. They're there
specifically for the food or thetrinket that they're gonna get.
They're there because they cameby accident. And then my
favorite there they are becausethey want to meet the executive
(14:54):
and show the executive thattheir name was on the Zoom
meeting. And they're gettingFaceTime and they're going Isn't
that credit to say they'rechecking the box to say that
they were there, that's notgonna be an event that really
does deep systemic change. Thisis why it's so important to
communicate your event and aframework that's going to reach
(15:17):
everybody. And sometimes thatmeans that you might have to
make two flyers for this event,and market it differently, just
the same way that coat marketsthis differently. So instead of
the flyer that has my picture,maybe you make another flyer
that says, join us for ourleadership, monthly leadership
(15:38):
discussion, where and you putthe president chairman and
executive officers picture onthe flyer, because most of the
time, that's going to be a whitestraight male guy. have his
picture beyond the flyer andhave it be join the because
that's the person that's goingto give the opening remarks if
you're not misrepresenting theevent. And have that be the
(16:02):
person on the fly? Yeah, andthen you can add other stuff and
strip away the identifyinginformation about who I am, and
the ERG logos, strip all thatstuff away. Make two flyers. All
right.
Kim Clark (16:18):
It's really, you know, and I've had several
calls, as of late for all thepride talks that I'm I'm doing
in June as well. And it's, youknow, one client was like, we
just started a month and a halfago with our pride group. You
know, what you because I wasasking them, What are your
communication objectives forthis, you know, session, etc.
And one of the things I saidwas, they said, what, what do
(16:41):
you what do you think we shouldbe doing and nice when you as a
startup kind of employeeresource group? And I said,
Well, it starts with whatproblem while you're solving,
why did you start the group, ifit's to bring the community
together, because there'snowhere else to go, and they
need a safe haven, you need asupport group, because it's
frickin scary out there, ifyou're LGBTQ plus right now, and
we're gonna get to talking aboutFlorida, because that's where
(17:02):
you're based. And, you know, soit's like, okay, that has its
own purpose. And there's a waythat I would approach that
session, do we want actually tomake the workplace more safe? If
so, then I'm going to be talkingto the allies. And I'm going to
be talking about what ourexperience is like. And if you
want me to help recruit, becauseyou're a brand new employee
(17:25):
resource group, I can do that aswell recruit, as far as inviting
people to participate in theemployee resource group to learn
more, get involved, get engaged,you know, to the issues that are
facing this, this population. Sothey're different to your point,
those those are differentpurposes and different problems
(17:45):
that we're solving for thatrequire targeted messaging with
with unique calls to action.Now, you had mentioned in our
last conversation that when youwere at PNC, you had a DI
communications person that wasbasically part of your team are
assigned to you as this VP, yourrole as VP of diversity, equity
(18:09):
and inclusion. So I would assumethat these are the kinds of
conversations with with themarketing of the events, etc,
that you had these kinds ofconversations with his
diversity, equity inclusioncommunications person. So can
you talk a little bit more aboutwhat that partnership that
relationship was like? And whatyou really needed from that
person in order to further yourefforts and tell the story
(18:32):
around the EI at PNC?
Ashley T. Brundage (18:34):
Yeah. So the our comms person on the team is
the one that would produce theannual report, or at least our
portion towards the annualreport at the time, they would
manage the website, because wehad an internal website. And
then we also have an externalwebsite. The bulk of what they
(18:58):
would do, though, a lot of timeswas managing our relationship
with corporate communications.Okay, because Corporate
Communications had someone justhad someone designated for HR.
And their HR person, in essenceis the one that was managing all
of HR comms, well, when 2020happened, let's just say that
(19:25):
our our comms became comms forthe entire company. And, and
obviously, that coincided bothwith COVID, but also the murder
of George Floyd, beingCenterpoint amongst things that
were discussed on the internetfor the company. So what this
(19:47):
role really was designed to kindof manage the website comms
communications, printing,materials, that kind of stuff.
Then it became more about beingIn the middle point between the
corporate communications personand the team, but what I saw was
that I needed to have more of adirect connection with the
(20:10):
corporate communications person,because it, there was a, you
know, the more people you havein between. And then on
communication, when you'retrying to literally paint the
communication for someone, thatbecomes a little bit harder. And
so I found it to be a little bitof mail in some ways that made
the job harder. Having thatdedicated person that was the
(20:33):
new person between the twoconversations. So at times, I
started having side dialoguesessions with HR comms person.
And then this even got morecomplicated when we left HR. And
we became not a part of HRanymore. And we went into our
(20:56):
own business units. And then wegot our own business unit comms
person for corporateresponsibility, which was a
collection of three differentbusiness units in the company.
So that then changed the germscommunication message
drastically as well set and, andrequired a lot of changes around
(21:17):
because now, you know, it waslike, it's always about
community. It's about competingfor, for real estate on the
internet. That's honestly, whatnot 90% of the conversation was
about trying to get yourinformation on the internet for
the company. Because that isprofit is real estate that's
(21:40):
incredibly valued by all thelines of business. And it's
about trying to kind of juggleall the balls and the hats for
the communication and sensethings that people need to think
about are happening. It's likean argument. who winds up on the
internet, and it's good, butit's real.
Kim Clark (21:56):
Yeah, yeah, that was my world when I was running
internal communications for whenI was in house. Yes. Yes, it was
a constant negotiation.
Ashley T. Brundage (22:05):
Dei, people don't know that or see that
side.
Kim Clark (22:08):
Yeah. Which I can understand. Yeah. Um, you know,
with. We're recording this theday after Ron DeSantis,
announced his presidential run.And so in preparation for the
next cycle of presidentialelections that are going to be
(22:32):
starting next year, but thecampaigns have already started.
We have. For those who can't seeright now, Ashley is doing
breathing techniques. And that'sessentially where I want to go
with this next question is, weas di communicators have got to
get our planning ahead, aroundcivic responsibility, what is
(22:58):
our messaging going to be? Whatis that conversation that we
need to have with our leaders,of course, I would love to see
everybody use the depth modelfrom our book, The conscious
communicator as that guidingframework, but applying your
employee empowering differencesas well. There's differences
with politics and ideologiesthat are playing out within
(23:20):
workspaces right now. And so howis the AI communicators? Do we
get ahead of this? In preparingour workspaces, and leading the
narrative rather than constantlybeing on the knee jerk back end?
Side of of triage and collateraldamage that we're trying to
control? Like we've done in thepast?
Ashley T. Brundage (23:43):
Oh, gosh. Yeah, well, I mean, I think
breathing exercises areimportant in this space,
whenever you're thinking aboutpolitics, because the think that
it doesn't exist in theworkplace is BS. I remember
being the DI person and Novemberof 2016, and everyone was
(24:07):
thinking we were finally goingto break that friggin glass
ceiling, and a woman was goingto be the president. And
instead, we got a reality shotstar move. You know, there was
that. And all of that happenedand people were shocked people
were surprised. And I mean, insome people were having some
(24:30):
people were upset and this goesback to like, so my model is on
measuring how our disempoweredpeople are but it's also about
understanding that authority andpower are connected to people is
actual true empowerment. And thepeople sighs simple. You know
(24:50):
who you are. There are a billionof you on the planet. We got
that we can argue that. Thepower side also can't be our
Dude, because the power itemsare all the tangible business
metric items that you have, youhave your report, right? You
have your ship, shareholderreturn on investment, and you
(25:12):
have, how much time how muchmoney is paid out, right? All
that stuff is never argued.They're factual data that's
audited financials. Okay, gotpower, we got people.
Unknown (25:25):
The authority, on the other hand is where everyone
would emotionally lives in this
Ashley T. Brundage (25:30):
space. I've asked 1000s of people about
their authority. And I can tellyou, I've gotten 1000s of
answers, and they're always alldifferent. But the only thing
that they all have in common isthat they're very hard to
measure and very hard to judge.And people in this space, always
(25:51):
change every single second thatsomething happens to them, their
authority level changes. Whenthe Supreme Court of the United
States of America makes adecision, it either increases
someone's authority or lowersomeone authority, no one
actually really ever stays thesame. Same reason why trying to
acquire work life balance is awasted effort for organizations.
(26:14):
If you are trying to acquirework life balance in this space,
literally through what you howyou want to have emotional time
for what you do, but you want tohave time, that you're also
wasting your time. Because theteeter totter moves, you move
something from one side, then itgoes like that goes like that,
we put something else on it. Sothat's literally the same case
(26:37):
in relation to how our authoritygoes, the election is going to
happen. People are going to getelected, that's going to happen,
you will already know this isgoing to happen. And when it
happens, it's up to you to beready to enact whatever the plan
is regardless. And it needs tomake sure that you value all
(26:59):
people's emotions, because theyexist, there's going to be
people who love one potentialcandidate and people who hate
that same candidate. And knowingthat that's going to happen,
it's going to affect youremployees. So if you think
pullet political differencesdon't count in the workplace,
you're sorely mistaken, you needto have a plan associated to
(27:20):
farming out how people feelabout this. And be understanding
that they are going to be on oneend of the spectrum to the
other. And you do that bymeasuring how empowered people
are. That's the secret. If youmeasure how empowered people
are, you're able to know exactlywhat how they're being impacted.
(27:40):
And then you'll know whatactions you should provide for
them to do.
Kim Clark (27:46):
Thank you for that. I think so many people, they don't
have a plan, they they puttogether like everyone has this
the you know, civic duty, orwe're going to give you the day
off, and we're signing thispledge that it's going to be you
know, employee holiday. But thatdoesn't that's not equitable for
everybody, of course, and it butit stops there. And then they
get surprised like it after the2016 election, for example,
(28:09):
where I was working in house, wehad reports of some areas of the
business where people werewalking in with the red Magga
hats and fights would ensue.And, and I felt like we needed
to be ahead of this, we neededto foster some sort of an
environment around intentionallydesigning our culture to allow
(28:30):
these differences and to bewithin the values of the
company. And so I reallyappreciate you giving this like
clear plan. So everyone, likeget Ashley's book empowering
differences and start the work.This is the time to start
planning for something that isgoing to that is going to
further divide if we don't planahead to heal that sense of
(28:52):
separation between now and thenit will will create more, more
damage that we would have tocontrol more collateral damage
of our employees, harming ouremployees. Not just a physical
way but also in an in a in avocal and emotional way. And so
getting ahead of that andsetting the tone for what your
(29:14):
culture stands for and whatyou're about and taking Ashley's
advice. Now Ashley, you are bornand raised in Florida. You're
close to what's going on inFlorida. And so I would love to
hear what I'm and I'm outside ofFlorida. I'm in California and I
(29:35):
would like to know like what canwe do if we're what's going on
in Florida? First of all, youcan kind of give us the inside
scoop. And then what can we doif we are in Florida or if some
of our in our listeners outsideof Florida? What can we do to
help to help?
Ashley T. Brundage (29:53):
Well, I think it stems from back
remembering that empowerment isa political nature.
Understanding that empowermentis a political in nature,
everybody wants it, everybodywill accept empowerment. And if
you leave with empowerment, thenyou can overcome any difference
that people have even politicaldifferences. There's a reason
(30:13):
that in the span of six months,last year, I consulted for the
Joe Biden White House, and I wonan award from the governor of
Florida. It's because I work tomake empowerment a political. So
you can do that chapter, right,in my book is the political
dives into political differencesand provide chatbots. Okay,
(30:35):
yeah, chapter eight in my booktalks about political
differences, because it'simportant, it's important to
know that if you're empoweringpeople, that's a political as
not as not as not part ofpolitics at all. So if you're
thinking about what you can doto help people who might be
marginalized, because I thinkthat that's maybe what you're
getting at. And if you're beingmarginalized, potentially,
(30:59):
you're part of a social identitygroup. That's happening,
whatever you do, don't move.Because that's literally what
they want you to do. They'reliterally trying to force you to
do for population migration.Someone is creating a bill to,
to an S to enact scare tactics,okay. But most of the people who
(31:21):
would be affected from from abill like that will probably
live in a city that already hasan ordinance that protects you,
or they have someone that'ssaying that they're gonna stand
up for you. But you can do thatas well. If you're an ally, and
you're listening, and you'rethinking, What can I do to help
people, you know, stand up andwrite, write the Congress person
(31:41):
and write your Senator, write asmany people as you can write the
ones that aren't yours, becausethe more messages they get
surrounding these topics inthese bills, the more they'll
realize that maybe they shouldhave a dialogue about it, and
learn because I could literallybreak down every single one of
the main myths that exist abouttransgender non binary and
(32:04):
gender non conforming peoplepretty easily. Potentially, if
somebody wanted me to, if theyjust gave me five minutes to
talk to talk about it can tellthem that if it goes back to
being about the right of, of we,the people, we the people, okay,
that doesn't say we the peoplethat only certain people, it's
(32:26):
We the People, as in everybody,and it's individualistic rights,
that is what built our nation,having the ability to have
freedom from oppression, havingthe ability to have freedom of
the ability to make decisions,and have not government
interference upon how you liveyour life, where you go, like
how you use the restroom, andwhat sports you play. All of
(32:49):
those things are about politicalthings that can drive people to
have interference. It's notabout that. It's about freedom
of being the people. That's whatit is, we all will agree on
that. It's We the People Likeliterally, that's an easy
construct that works across allpolitical majors, sometimes just
the nature of the fact thatmaybe somebody who might have a
(33:11):
political difference in youmight not understand your point
of view. So it's aboutcommunication of the point of
view, I think that we have to doa better job of painting that
narrative and communicating
Kim Clark (33:22):
1,000% You know, that earlier this week, I did a an in
person presentation in front ofa fraction of the defense
industry, Department of Defense.And I, you know, they opened up
the entire conferences, day longconference doing the Pledge of
Allegiance. And so I basicallywhen I started my presentation,
(33:47):
I said what are the last fivewords of the Pledge of
Allegiance, liberty and justicefor all? And I said, Do you mean
that because that's the promiseof America, you know, and you
were talking about the way thatpeople and it's like so liberty
and justice for all. It has toplay out through and through
that's what we say. So that'swhat we must do and as
(34:08):
communicators we understand thisbut we're also really wrestling
with that say do gap which we'reseeing because when the time
that we're recording this targetis getting targeted for the
backlash of pulling back pridemerchandise, etc Bud Light
backing up. Miller Lite leaningin you know, there's there's all
(34:30):
kinds of different, you know,shifts and changes going on
right now. But we're reallystruggling with like we stand in
solidarity with the LGBTQ pluscommunity, and yet we're not
able to withstand pressure andbacklash within our stores, etc.
So that was my newsletter topictoday. Actually, we say that we
(34:51):
can stand but we're not able towithstand. I'm going to wrap up
our conversation here, Ashleywith what your guide and advice
would be for folks on ensuringthat pride is not performative.
And if you don't mind speakingspecifically, on ways that we
can provide protections, andmessaging for protections around
(35:15):
transgender rights and rights toexist, etc.
Ashley T. Brundage (35:18):
Yeah, I mean, I think the thing I was
just mentioning is probably thebiggest thing that you can use
research to break down some ofthe Eastern myths that exist.
The biggest thing here is thatthere are laws that already
exist on the books in everysingle municipality in the
United States alone, thatalready protect people from
(35:41):
common decency and indecency andAmerica any other thing in
relation to that, like, ifsomebody's going to expose
themselves, then that's going tobe illegal. I mean, we don't
need an additional bill or pieceof legislation that's going to
protect people further fromthat, because that's already
(36:03):
illegal. And I think that a lotof people don't even realize
that some of these thingsdoesn't make that they don't
make a lot of sense. And it goesback to like parents right to
choose. Parents should have theopportunity to choose what they
do and how they raise theirchildren. government shouldn't
have any interference over that.I think that that's a big thing.
(36:24):
Also, like, you know, if Iwanted to take my kids to drag
queen story hour, that's shouldbe my choice. As a parent, if I
want to take my kids drag thingsdrag me story up. Of course, if
I show up and the drag queen isdressed, lewd and lascivious,
then that's illegal already,regardless of whether there's an
ordinance and and then if Ichoose to take my kids to
(36:47):
Hooters, and taking them toHooters, where the waitresses or
waiters, waitstaff is, issexualized in nature, then so be
it. And then I've chosen to takemy two boys to stratify them. So
I've done that. And I have donethat. And I'm taking them to the
(37:10):
Pride Parade also, and exposethem to the pride parade. And
then it's their choice. It'stheir choice to meet people who
are different, because we areall people. This goes back to
this thing, we have to make surethat we help people understand
that what's going on here iswrong. There's already there's
(37:31):
already bills and laws on thebooks that protect people from
every potential wrong thing thathappens, in fact, we should
probably focus a little bit moreon the clergy officials and
legislative people who've beenarrested are lewd and lascivious
acts, which is a heck of a lotmore than transgender people
(37:52):
who've been arrested.
Kim Clark (37:55):
Thank you, thank you. It's incredibly important. You
know, one of the things that Ialways share with clients are
these three C's. It's a verybasic formula of, of cultural
moments. And and that is firstcelebrate, yes, thank you for
the visibility, appreciate it.But you can't stop there. But
that's where companies they wantto have the goodwill, they want
(38:16):
to, you know, store up thegoodwill score some points, and
they stop at celebrate, theydon't go to the part of the
crisis, or the community of whywe have pride in the first
place. And what is impacting thecommunity that we're
celebrating, right here rightnow. So there are people who are
afraid of going out to prideparades because of their own
safety, and where we are rightnow. So while we want to
(38:41):
celebrate can we celebrate, youknow, safely? So talking about
that crisis, kind of a situationand there's so many there's what
550 bills, anti LGBTQ plus billsacross the country right now.
And then the last is theconsistency don't only talk
about LGBTQ plus folks just inJune, or if you're in the UK in
(39:03):
October, right. And I you know,there's various places that that
that celebrate at differenttimes, but companies tend to in
the US focus on on June. And sothis this idea of like, yes,
there's the celebration, butthere's these other things.
That's where you make that shiftfrom being performative to
meaningful and having impact andreally not just standing as the
(39:27):
target CEO said for the LGBTQplus community, but you're
withstanding any kind ofpressure to not stand with the
LGBTQ plus and so you gotta youhave to put your put your
actions where your mouth is, andwe as communicators can really
drive that conversation becausevisibility drives
accountability. Any finalthoughts Ashley, and then where
(39:49):
can people find you and findyour book?
Ashley T. Brundage (39:53):
Yeah, just I mean, thank thank you for having
me. It's been so good dialogueas they're so important to
helping people realize theactual impacts of their work and
how to communicate it. I thinkthat's really important. I mean,
the communication always reallymatters. I mean, that's what
makes the difference so much.And I call it inspire. And my
framework is how we addresscommunication by inspiring
(40:18):
people. And because obviously,comms is not necessarily always
a sexy word. So that's why wecall it inspire in my framework.
So that's how we driveinspiration. Empowerment for
people is through inspire as anempowering action. That's one of
the 10 actions in my framework.But yeah, you can connect with
(40:42):
me at Ashley T Brundage, a sh,le YTBRU, en da, GE, you can
find me pretty easily when youGoogle my name, you'll see I
have like the first 30 pages ofGoogle.
Kim Clark (40:57):
I saw that Yes.
Ashley T. Brundage (41:00):
Every single one is me. And then you can
connect with my book empoweringdifferences, my leadership
course empowering differences,my workbook empowering
differences, and empoweringdifferences.com. That's your one
stop shop for all thingsempowerment, and where we can
all leverage all of ourdifferences to impact change.
Kim Clark (41:23):
And that's where people can do a self assessment
for free. Is that right?
Ashley T. Brundage (41:27):
Yes, they can download the self assessment
tied to step one and empowermentjourney. If they want to engage
with the digital empowermentassessment to get their
personalized empowerment report.That's actually part of my
career. They have to be involvedin the curriculum for that. But
for the first, the first stepis, yeah, they just click the
(41:47):
Self Assessment tab.
Kim Clark (41:50):
Sweet. Excellent, Ashley. Thank you. It's not
going to be our last timetogether. I know it, we're going
to continue to grow and help asmany people as we can to get
them through probably the mostrecent history, the most
turbulent times at least of mygeneration being Gen X. So thank
you for what you're doing inFlorida. We want you and
(42:12):
everybody within the communitysafe, and we're going to do all
that we can to make sure thatthat happens. Thank you for your
time.
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