November 21, 2023 • 67 mins
Whenever I have a conversation with Robin Lukason, I know it's going to be a good one. Robin is an executive business coach and one of my co-authors of "Cracking the Rich Code". Robin's insights into corporate leadership and her emphasis on relationship-building and understanding varying personalities are enlightening and provide actionable advice for improving communication in corporate settings. We discuss managing through influence, techniques for handling different personality types, and the significance of active listening.
We talk about the importance of setting boundaries and managing energy in the workplace. Robin and I share our personal struggles with prioritizing our own needs first thing in the morning and how the concept of energy management can have a profound impact on our intuition and overall well-being. Tune in for all this and much more. Don't forget to share and leave a review!
To learn more about Robin visit https://www.robinlukason.com/
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 2 (00:07):
Welcome to the Communication 24-7 podcast,
where we communicate about howwe communicate.
I'm your host, jennifer Furlong.
I have a special guest with metoday, robin Lukasen.
(00:30):
She is an executive businesscoach.
I asked her to be on thepodcast because she and I met.
We are co-authors in a bookcalled Cracking the Rich Code.
You've heard me talk about thisbook before.
I was really lucky in that Ihappened to be in this same book
(00:52):
as Robin.
We decided, hey, let's have alittle chat, just get to know
you.
We ended up hitting it off andwe had so many things in common.
Our conversation lasted a verylong time.
Finally, I was like we need toget this on to the podcast
because we talked all thingscommunication.
(01:13):
I really think she has a lot ofreally insightful things to say
about communication andrelationships and things that we
can do in order to improve ourcommunication skills.
Robin, thank you so much forbeing on the show.
I'm so happy to see you again.
Thank you, jen.
I'm really excited to be here.
(01:34):
Yeah, why don't we get theaudience caught up?
You and I have already hadgreat conversations, but they
need to get caught up on wherewe are.
Do you mind just tell us alittle bit about.
I know you started your ownbusiness not too long ago, but
catch us up to the career youhad before you started your
(01:57):
business and how that helped youmake the decision to go the
path that you're on now.
Speaker 1 (02:04):
Sure, I like to refer to myself affectionately as a
corporate dropout.
I spent 26 years in mortgagebanking.
All of my background is runningoperations, so sites across the
United States and even partnersoverseas.
And then the last probably sixto 10 years I really started to
focus on more strategic efforts.
I would be in a chief of staffrole.
(02:27):
I started getting reallyinvolved with financial partners
so P&L building comp plans,working with the sales partners,
really chief of staff type work, so the operations leaders
could do what they needed to doand I could work behind the
scenes.
Having been in roles like them,I also spent a lot of time in
data and performance management.
I live my life by Excel.
(02:48):
I love organization, so who isa great fit?
About three and a half years ago, when I was working at my last
corporate job, I got connectedwith a woman who ran a mortgage
and real estate coaching firmout on the East Coast.
She was based out there, shewas an ex sales leader, got
connected to her.
I immediately became a coach,and every coach wears a certain
(03:10):
hat, if you will, so everybodyspecializes in some area.
I became the relationship coach, and not necessarily to work on
personal relationships, butjust how you build relationships
in the workplace.
Working corporate, I could onlyreally moonlight, so I did
hours from four to seven and Ifound that even after the
(03:31):
longest days.
So, mind you, this is March of2020,.
I started a new job and startedcoaching right when the world
went sideways.
Speaker 2 (03:40):
I was working a lot.
Speaker 1 (03:41):
What's going on.
I was working 10 to 12 hours aday and then coaching at night,
and what I found was that waswhat really energized me.
I felt better after thosesessions than just about
anything I was doing incorporate.
All those years, I wasunofficially coaching people.
I've had hundreds of leadersunder me that I've helped and
(04:04):
worked with and developed, so Iwas already doing it
unofficially.
This was just the first chanceI got to be in the role and I
really fell in love with it.
When the mortgage market reallystarted to have challenges in
2022, I was laid off and Ithought to myself I was going to
wait two and a half more yearsto pursue this full time when my
(04:27):
son graduated high school, butI felt like this was the right
time.
Last summer, I decided to intandem.
I still work for that firm.
I pursued my own business andthat's what I'm working to grow
right now as an executive coach.
Speaker 2 (04:40):
That is fantastic.
One of the things that, as anexecutive business coach and I
think with your background inthe mortgage industry and being
so much of a chief of staff,really as a chief of staff you
really do have to deal with allkinds of different personalities
(05:00):
.
You have to really see the bigpicture and how the different
pieces of the puzzle can fittogether.
What do you think was the mostchallenging part of all of that?
As you were figuring out yeah,you know what I'm doing more of
the relationship management typeof things.
(05:20):
What was challenging about?
Speaker 1 (05:23):
that for you, the hardest thing you learn when you
are a leader and you have topartner with others is the
concept of managing throughinfluence.
I'm in a VP type role, if youwill, and I have a really small
team of people that are workingunder me and partnering with the
business, but I'm facing offwith all the senior VPs and the
(05:46):
C-suite as either the ambassadorfor my boss or running my own
initiatives, buildingrelationships with all of those
people for them to understand mycredibility and my experience.
As we used to have the saying,you don't walk into rooms guns
blazing and telling everybodywhat you want to do.
It's a slow burn to introduceyourself, share what you've done
(06:10):
, and it takes time.
So it's sitting back andlistening for a while, not being
the first one to speak.
That's a hard thing for mesometimes.
The thoughts in my head it wasreally working to build
relationships.
In the beginning I would reachout and set up 30-minute calls
(06:32):
with a lot of these peers andpartners before I ever had to
work with them More, tounderstand what their role was,
how long they've been with thecompany, what had they done
before Professionally.
It was important to me to knowwhat their role was where they
had challenges, how we might beable to partner.
But I tend to ask a fewpersonal questions if I feel
(06:54):
like it's the right environment.
The company I was working forwas based in my home state, in
the town where I went to college.
I'm very familiar with the area.
I knew where a lot of peoplelived.
We had this commonality ofgeography so we could start
there.
And then it's children and petsand hobbies.
You just start to slowly buildrapport.
(07:16):
The next time you talk to them.
I think it's always importantto remember things that people
told you about their personallife.
It was really just working tobuild that relationship,
offering my help as much aspossible, getting involved in as
many things as I could, so Icould really understand the
corporate culture, the landscapeof responsibilities when I
(07:39):
started to offer help so eitherhelp them on something or offer
some expertise that started tobuild the bond and then people
got to understand what I wascapable of.
Then I didn't have a shortageof work.
Let's just say that, yeah.
Speaker 2 (07:55):
Yeah, I'm sure it was something that was sorely
needed.
I think a lot of people,especially in corporate America.
They're almost starving for away to be able to make
connections with others.
I think we all feel sodisconnected now.
We could blame social media, wecould blame having to work from
(08:19):
home, especially during thepandemic.
There are so many differentthings that are competing for
our attention.
I've heard from a lot of peoplewho work in the workforce going
into the office on a daily basis.
Even though you're in there andyou get to see people, it's
(08:39):
easy to feel somewhatdisconnected from them,
especially if you areuncomfortable or maybe you don't
know how to have thoseconversations.
I'm sure there's a culturalcomponent to it as well, as far
as leadership modeling, thattype of openness and willingness
to have those types ofconversations to build those
(09:00):
relationships.
Did you have any conversationswith the higher echelon to let
them know that you were doingthis, you were having these
one-on-ones and having theseconversations to build the
relationships, or did you justsay you know what?
I know this is the right thingto do.
I'm going to do it now ratherthan ask permission.
Speaker 1 (09:23):
It's interesting.
I felt like when I was broughtin I was introduced to someone
that had a lot of expertise inthe industry.
My boss was really good atgiving me that initial ground
cover and really punting a lotof things.
Robin can do it, robin can doit.
I was brand new to the company.
Some of those C-suite leaderswere some of the people that I
really pursued havingconversation with.
(09:44):
They were part of that as wellwhen they found out some of the
things I could do and then theystarted to come to me.
I would try to do the samethings, try to build that
rapport, understand about them.
What can I help them with?
Because to me, the more mindsyou get in the room without
getting too big, because thenthere's too many opinions those
(10:06):
differences are really importantwhen you make decisions.
Sometimes people get nervouswhen outsiders come in because
they're worried we're going tochange the culture or the
decision paths we've been onwill be disrupted.
My belief has always been let'sjust share different
perspectives and let's land onthe best one, whoever it is.
(10:28):
Some people are really open tothat and others it takes them a
little more to realize the wholeconcept of someone being a
threat to your job.
That's one you always want toovercome.
I found that when I would startto detect people that would
(10:49):
potentially omit you from ameeting or don't want your
opinions, those are the ones Iwork harder to let them
understand.
My runway for work is not 25years and I'm trying to build
more steps in my ladder.
I'm completely content where Iam.
I'm here to help you achieveyour goals, and let some of my
experiences be a good guide foryou.
(11:12):
I mean, 26 years is a long timeto be in management.
I think that's why it's helpedme as a coach.
If I can help other peopleavoid some of the missteps I've
had, that's success in my booktoo.
Speaker 2 (11:27):
Yeah, do you ever have conversations with
leadership or even just managers, and how they can also use this
as a way to connect with theiremployees?
Do you talk to them abouthaving one-on-ones and the
importance of that?
Speaker 1 (11:44):
I mean, that is literally not to little
tongue-in-cheek here.
One of my number one things Itell people when I meet them is
what are your rhythms androutines with your team?
Whether you are a first-linemanager, a manager of other
leaders, there's multiplecheckpoints in my opinion.
You take just a manager that'smaybe got 10 or 12 people.
(12:06):
I always was a fan of a littlehuddle in the morning.
15 minutes set the day.
What were the results fromyesterday?
What's the tone for today?
Once a month, is it possible tospend 15 minutes or 20 with
each of your team?
Because getting to know them ona personal level, that is not
attached to a problem which isgenerally when you bring people
(12:29):
to your cube or in your office.
It's just let's talk.
What do you like about workinghere?
What could we do differently?
And walk the floor.
If you are in the kind ofenvironment where you're able to
be out and be seen every day,that's so important.
And when you get to managementlevel and you've got different
layers of managers underneathyou.
I used to meet with my managersonce a week, if I could, or at
(12:52):
least once every two weeks, sotwice a month and we have our
list of things they want to workon.
We have the list of things thatI've got, but it always starts
with the personal and I thinkthe thing that made me different
as a leader and one thing Ilike to coach about is at the
end of a lot of my sessions,once we got to know each other,
(13:12):
I would ask them what do youwish I did more of and what do
you wish I did less of?
And initially people areconcerned to share a criticism
of their boss to their face.
But when you build the trustand the rapport, they can say I
hate those follow-up emailsabout that same topic every day,
(13:33):
or I hate when you step on mydesk when I first walk in the
door, whatever it is, and Ialways, like I will do my best
to accommodate because everybodyneeds to be managed differently
.
So one-on-one time, not just totalk about business results,
but just the person that makesall the difference in the world.
Speaker 2 (13:54):
Yeah, and I think there are so many leaders who
are action-oriented and they canbe so focused on the next goal,
what it is that we're workingtoward.
This is the mission.
You know, I see where, exactlywhere we need to be.
So these are all the thingsthat we need to put in place.
Go, go, go, go go.
Let's go for it.
And it's really easy to forgetto make time for those things.
(14:19):
So you recommend, you know,just once a month for about a
half an hour, have thosepersonal conversations, just
kind of get to know you andhow's it going.
Speaker 1 (14:29):
Yep and it's follow-up more about how their
time is going in their job, whatis happening with the peers and
partners they work with.
Do they like the dynamic on theteam?
And sometimes, if they arecomfortable, you can ask them
about their relationship withtheir manager, if this is
something like a manager that'sstarting to talk to staff on the
floor, and I think that is onething that I have watched over
(14:52):
and over again in companies assenior leaders rise through the
ranks their ability to stayconnected to the front lines,
whatever the job is, whetherit's customer service,
manufacturing, mortgage.
I understand how busy we canget, but even when I had sites
of a couple hundred people, itwas important to me to connect
(15:14):
two people every day, becausewho knows better about making
decisions and what is happeningthan the people that are doing
the job every day?
And their voice matters and youknow if you've got multiple
layers of management betweenyourself and the front line.
People manage up right.
They tell you what they thinkyou need to know and as a senior
(15:38):
leader, you sometimes can bemissing critical information.
Speaker 2 (15:41):
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(16:04):
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It helps to smooth out theconflicts that are inevitably
(16:27):
going to happen in the workplace.
I mean, we're a bunch of peoplegetting together.
At some point there's going tobe a disagreement.
Somebody's going to saysomething that somebody else
didn't like, or you're going todo something that steps on their
toes.
You know we can't help it.
Sorry, the human animal.
We are prone to conflict.
You know we all have differentlikes, dislikes.
(16:48):
You know ideals and beliefs,and so being able to establish
those relationships I think isso important because down the
road, when the conflict doeshappen and it's going to happen
I think it just makes it alittle more.
It just helps smooth the way alittle more so that you can have
(17:09):
those difficult conversationsthat you're going to have to
have.
You got to build that trust inorder for that to happen.
That's so critical.
Speaker 1 (17:18):
I have a funny story.
I had a friend here yesterdayfor the 4th of July and she was
a manager that worked for me.
At one point she was here withher husband and we were, you
know, just kind of catching upon things.
She's still in the industry.
She made a funny comment to herhusband about one of the
biggest lessons that she'dlearned from me as a leader was
know your audience.
You've got to be reallycognizant of how casual you want
(17:43):
to speak and who is sitting inthat room, you know.
And she said I remember beingcalled to the principal's office
once or twice.
But she said it has served meso well and I think you're very
right that when you've built therelationship, difficult
conversations don't have to bedifficult.
(18:04):
I mean as leaders, when youwrite people up or when you have
to address behavior or any ofthose tense things that can
happen.
I never felt like those weredifficult conversations to have.
I'm not saying I didn't getnervous once in a while.
But I felt like I was reallygood about setting expectations
and touching base so that if weget to a point where things are
(18:26):
really going sideways, you'renot surprised.
You've known all along.
We've offered you all thesolutions.
You know it's really the ballsin your court, so how do we help
you get there?
Yeah, it doesn't have to betense.
Speaker 2 (18:39):
I'm so glad that you said it doesn't mean that I'm
not nervous when thoseconversations happen.
Can you say a little more aboutthat?
Because it sounds like it's thepreparation If you've set the
expectations and you know youreally do want to set them up
for success, so the expectationsand how to get there is so
(19:03):
critically important, but yetyou still can get nervous at
having those conversations.
Were there things that youwould do to kind of work through
those nerves?
Because I know there are a lotof leaders out there in managers
who really just they absolutelyloathe having to have these
conversations with theiremployees.
Speaker 1 (19:24):
You know it's funny.
I can think back to so manytimes when people needed to be
put on a warning or performanceimprovement plan or even an
determination, and I always feltlike those were the reasons
building relationships was soimportant, because if we got to
that place, the first timethey're seeing me wouldn't be
when we're sitting across fromthe table from one another and
I'm about to walk them out thedoor.
(19:45):
I never would want that to bethe experience of people that
work with me.
You know, unfortunately, partof the solve is it takes time
and you have to sort of honeyour craft.
What always worked for me, toyour point about being prepared,
was does everybody know what'sexpected of them before we get
to conversations of you aren'tmeeting expectations or you're
(20:08):
falling way below?
What do they already have intheir possession?
What do they already know?
Let's make sure the playingfield is level for everybody and
that we've given them a fewfair conversations before we're
getting to something morepermanent.
That's going to be on therecord.
Let's say so by the time you'reactually sitting with somebody.
We've had some informalconversations.
(20:29):
They are aware you've offeredthings to them.
What more can I do to help you?
Is it training?
Is it?
Do you want to shadow somebody?
Is it?
Do you need to go into the lab?
Whatever it is, it's having allyour ducks in a row.
And I think the thing for me isnot only we've got the baseline
of conversations, we always haveto document things because
(20:51):
that's always important for ourHR partners.
To me, it was just staying calmand I will say your tone, the
pace at which you talk in yourbody language, are so important
when you're talking to anybody,for that matter, but especially
intense situations, I found Ican speak fast when I get
(21:12):
excited and happy and I was verycalm going in.
I lowered my voice and I reallyslowed down and I had dialogue
with a lot of these people likeokay, so here's why we're here
today.
These are things we've talkedabout before.
Now, unfortunately, here'swhere we're at.
(21:33):
It's a very calm environmentbecause we're talking about a
lot of things that we've.
Just, it's a very calmenvironment because people are
so nervous when you tap on mom'sshoulder or you call them
unexpectedly, or you put it timeon their calendar that they
weren't expecting to meet withtheir boss all the different
ways that you can get surprised.
So it's sort of I don't want tosay disarming, because I'm not
(21:56):
trying to trick them, but it'sfor me.
And then what I taught otherswas just how these are people.
So let's just be sensitive, dothe right things up until this
point and just let them alwaysknow that they are in control.
It's their ability and resourcesto either improve or here's
what's going to happen.
Speaker 2 (22:15):
Yeah, you said something so important there,
talking about being aware ofyour own emotions and how that
is going to impact the wayyou're communicating.
That's going to impact thatmessage that they're receiving.
The message you send may notnecessarily be the message
received.
So, being mindful of that andjust pausing for a moment and
(22:39):
recognizing putting a label tohow am I feeling in this moment,
because I know if I don't takea deep breath, calm things down
a little bit and, like you said,you can speak a little more
slowly, which is going to giveyou the opportunity to think
about what you are going to saynext.
Yeah, and it just kind ofdeflates the situation just ever
(23:04):
so slightly.
Little things like that can havea huge impact on the outcome of
those types of conversations.
So, while you're recognizinghow are my emotions having an
impact on how I'm communicating,I think it's equally as
important to think about theother person and how might their
(23:24):
emotions in this moment impacthow they're communicating with
me?
Because if they're hearingsomething that's not going to be
comfortable, they're having tolisten to this and take it in.
It's not going to be verysurprising if they snap back or
if they feel like you detect alittle tone, and they're always
yeah.
Speaker 1 (23:45):
And that's also why you feel prepared with evidence,
information, things that areirrefutable and again, it's
always trying to make somebodyfeel comfortable on how can we
solve this, coming from themindset of we want to fix this
and work with you and improvethings.
We're not trying to take thesteps for a negative exit, but I
will tell you something elsefunny when I think about tone
(24:09):
and volume.
It has served me well insettings where it's really
senior leadership too, becauseif I'm talking too fast or I say
too much and I love details Ican watch eyes just sort of get
glazed over.
So it's to the point concise.
I keep my tone slow and lowerthere too to keep attention.
(24:32):
So I feel like it's worked insituations that can be tense.
But also we talk about readingthe audience and what they need
and how I can get them to listento what I want them to hear too
.
Speaker 2 (24:46):
Yeah, did you ever In your time, when you're having
all of these conversations Iknow you spent a lot of time
with leadership Were you ever ina position where you were able
to coach employees on how tocommunicate effectively upwards
(25:06):
so that they can positionthemselves, in order to just Get
themselves into a positionwhere they would be considered,
you know, for for a promotion?
Or you know anything in theworkplace to have the leadership
notice them?
You know if you will.
Speaker 1 (25:24):
I think that's you know, when I think back to my
first company, I spent the first11 years of my career at one
company and I tell a story in mychapter in the book, actually
about a gift I got from one ofthe managers.
She was on my team but it was alittle jar that had on the
front written therapy fund andit was sit on my back table
(25:46):
because people always would popinto my office and sit in that
extra chair and ask for advice,and it really started with my
team.
You know, in mortgage, whenyou're trying to deal with
difficult Decisions anddifficult transactions with your
sales partners and bankingpartners and it's that's where
it initially started.
But how do I type this email?
How do I respond to that?
You know it was coaching onlanguage that in written form
(26:11):
would be received.
Well, right, or how do I talkto this person?
They're so angry.
Help me diffuse the situation.
Then I started to have otherleaders From other departments
come and pop in and talk to meabout their problems too, and it
could be similarly.
I'm having challenges with myboss.
(26:32):
As an executive coach, I havecoached people that are really
challenged with the relationshipwith their boss and and talking
about whether it be same-sex oropposite sex.
You know there's differentdynamics that happen there in
different personalities andWorking with people of the
opposite sex you have to thinkabout potentially how you're
(26:53):
going to talk to them people ofthe same sex and there's office
politics and just generalpolitics.
So I Think often it's if I knewtheir managers, it was
definitely a lot easier for meto help guide them and and
teaching them to Work onemotional intelligence, which I
didn't know that phrase up untila few years ago I think my
(27:16):
instincts and how to read peopleand to manage myself.
I didn't know it had formalname, but it's something I think
I started dialing into whichhelped me in my relationship
building and coach Others about.
You know this guy doesn't liketo sit and talk for 30 minutes.
If you want his attention,these are the steps he should
probably take.
Or this guy goes and getscoffee every morning at 10 15.
(27:39):
If you're trying to catch them,pop into the coffee.
You know it's always like theHelp me, help you like help me
get some information or someintel.
Or I will share with you what Iknow and then we can start to
make a plan on how to get youwhere you want to go, pay
attention, attention to whateverybody is doing and and thank
you for highlighting that thereare, you know, not everybody
(28:03):
has the same communication style.
Speaker 2 (28:05):
This is what I talk about when I go into
organizations and work withteams Our different
communication styles.
You, this person, may not bethe people oriented
communication style and you'reright, they don't want to spend
30 minutes talking about howlittle Jimmy did in his soccer
(28:26):
game last weekend.
You know, it's just and it'snot that that's bad.
I mean, there's no good or badto the different communication
styles, it's just different.
So if you do know that thisperson is more action oriented
and like earlier you said to thepoint, yeah, give them the
conclusion first.
(28:46):
Right your best two or threepoints that you want to
highlight and be done with it.
Maybe provide a visual, becauseI know action oriented people
love charts and graphs and theycan see it right there on one,
you know one screen, but it'sit's really helpful to really
learn your co-workers and theboss and everybody who's a part
(29:11):
of this organization, because ifyou do end up having to have,
you know, some type of acommunication with them, you're
going to be able to get a lotfarther with them if you can
adapt to their communicationstyle and and I think that's
incredibly important you know,in building relationships you
(29:31):
seem like you're probably moreof the people oriented type of
communication style.
Did you ever feel at any pointthat you were overwhelmed with
everybody coming into youroffice and sharing, especially
early on, when you didn'trealize that this was the path
you're going to go on?
You know, I'm sure at the verybeginning you weren't like, yeah
(29:52):
, one day I'm gonna be anexecutive business coach and
this is kind of by practice toget to that point.
Did you ever get overwhelmedwith sometimes like I just can't
have one more person walkinginto my office and In sharing
something with me I'm too muchoverloaded?
Speaker 1 (30:08):
You know it's funny.
For me it was more aboutbalancing.
I have things I need to getdone.
As much as I would love to sitand help everybody, I still had
things to do.
And you know mortgage bankingis a very intense Industry.
We always joke it's eitherdrinking through a fire hose or
you know it's drip, drip and youwonder if you're gonna have a
(30:29):
job, and most of my career were12 hour days or 10 hour days.
I should also note I'm not anearly bird at all.
I'm not the kind of person thatwould come into the office
really early to get a head start.
I'd rather stay late.
But I did adopt a practiceearly on when I would try to
just make at least the first 45minutes of my day about what I
(30:53):
needed to get done to set my dayup for success.
It was difficult as a leader towalk into like hey, robin, hey,
oh, can you do this?
I need help, I need yoursignature, like whoa.
That was difficult for me and Ihad to talk to my team and just
say I will be available to youat any point after this time.
Please just give me this space.
(31:15):
And Boundaries are a word that Ifeel like are coming up a lot
in my one-on-one coachingsessions right now People
feeling comfortable to statewhat their boundary is or
offering solutions when somebodyis encroaching on their
boundary.
The energy thing is somethingthat is also new for me.
(31:35):
So, in terms of overwhelm,while I'm really good at
creating boundaries, mm-hmm, Ihave found since I've slowed
down in my business life and I'mnot, you know, chained
conference calls and work outputand spreadsheets a lot of
energy I'm able to pick up on atlike empathically, hmm, and so
(31:57):
I have started to observe incrowds and lots of people.
I do pick up a lot of Energythere and I work to manage mine,
which is a very new phenomenonfor me.
I felt like I always had goodinstincts, intuition, and I feel
like my intuition has bumped upto another level, probably
because I'm tapping into allthese new parts of my brain.
(32:19):
It wasn't using.
Speaker 2 (32:21):
Yeah, I think it's really easy for anyone in the
workplace because it's kind ofingrained in our culture.
Right, it's work, work, workand all these long days and we
just go, go, go, and it's reallyeasy to to mistaken working a
lot for being productive, youknow, and and it's also easy to
(32:46):
mistake working a lot or alwaysbeing accessible with being seen
as a good leader or as a goodmanager.
A lot of people areuncomfortable with asserting
themselves though.
You know, if there's somethinghas come up, okay, I got to drop
what I'm doing and deal withthis, and that's not always the
case.
How do you help managers andleaders become comfortable with
(33:13):
setting those boundaries becausethat is a critical piece, I
think and being being aneffective leader, just like you
said.
Okay, guys, guess what?
Just give me my 45 minutes whenI get in the door and I'm going
to be a much better person toanswer all of your questions,
you know, after that.
I think that was probablyincredibly effective for your
(33:35):
team, for them to know that.
How do you, how do you buildthat, that sense of confidence
to be able to say that to beginwith?
If you've read my book Crackingthe Rich Code, you know it is
chock full of fantastic advicefrom top thought leaders and
super successful entrepreneursfrom around the world.
(33:56):
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Speaker 1 (34:31):
I think there's a few tricks I learned along the way
to that I share with leaders.
I'm actually coaching someone.
We had a session Thursdaytalking about this very topic
and just the concept of turninghis teams off at 6.30 at night,
because when people can see yourgreen dot on teams that you're
available, they don't hesitateto reach out and some people
(34:54):
like quiet time.
At the end of the day, you areentitled to have some time to
get your work done and I thinkyou know the key with any new
leader with a team is you can'tinitially do that.
You've got to learn the team,learn the process, dig in, spend
the time Once you getcomfortable and you started to
build that rapport and you findwhat your working rhythm is with
(35:16):
the people that work for you.
I think it's a lot easier to setsome boundaries and I say
boundaries with like a 90% ifyou're lucky adherence rate,
because things go wrong andpeople still need help and there
are emergencies and I alwaysmade it clear that this is how I
prefer to operate.
(35:36):
Clearly, if there is a fouralarm fire, you may come see me,
things like that, but peopleget used to you being available
when you make yourself reallyavailable and there were a
couple tricks.
So the first one I learned isteaching people how to solve
their own problems.
Start coming to me with yourideas on what the solution could
(35:59):
be, because it's really tiringcoming up with the answers all
day, every day, and I don'tnecessarily have the answers all
the time.
I'm going to think it through,I might consult with somebody,
but there's also more than oneway to skin a cat, so to speak.
So what I started to do and Ihad a manager that did this to
me so this is where I learned itCome to me with a possible
(36:20):
solution for your problem andultimately, I'm going to bless
it or ask some questions, ormaybe redirect you and, over
time, guess what you might beable to solve your own problems
and not even need me.
You can put a think on their own, which I really loved and that
worked really well for me withmy staff, and it only takes a
(36:42):
few times of you asking themwhat do you think you should do
or how do you think you shouldsolve, which is so annoying when
you're on the other side ofthat, but they learn.
Speaker 2 (36:51):
It's like this is why I came to you.
I don't want to have to thinkof it Exactly.
Speaker 1 (36:55):
With your managers, though, so who I'm accountable
to.
You know you feel like it'sreally hard to tell your boss
that you have a boundary.
We spoke early on about ourwork hours, especially when I
interviewed for the job.
You know I don't start at 630.
I like to say I started eight,and if I'm online at seven,
that's Robyn's hour.
I found when I got overwhelmedwith work or I had too many
(37:19):
competing priorities.
I would just ask for what areher top three things she needs
to get done?
Or I would say, as she gave methings is this the today thing
or is it this week?
Like, let me figure out what Ineed to do today based on the
things that are so important toyou.
So if you can help settimelines for me, then I know
(37:43):
how to make the most out of myday.
Speaker 2 (37:45):
Yeah, those are great questions for somebody to ask.
Speaker 1 (37:49):
And you know that was pretty easy for me, because
that's not threatening as anemployee to ask a boss yes, I
can get on this.
I have these four things.
Does this need to come to thetop?
I'll stop what I'm doing, or isthis something potentially that
can wait?
I always asked for timelineswhen I was really busy.
If I had the time toaccommodate it, no problem.
Yeah, clarity.
Speaker 2 (38:11):
Clarity is the number one thing in communication and
that's where it can go so wrong.
Just in that scenario, you knowyou have a manager and the
employee in the office andthey're discussing the 150
things, you know, that have toget done.
And if you're the type ofmanager where you're like, oh
well, as long as you just get itdone at some time, you know,
(38:35):
and that's not really helpful ifyou're not sharing exactly when
it is.
I mean, if it's true that youknow what the deadline is two
weeks from today.
So rather than saying, oh well,you know, if you get around to
it in the next couple of weeks,well, that's not really going to
(38:56):
be very helpful for me.
But if I know, oh, the deadlineis absolutely 100%, two weeks
from today, now I can organizemy calendar around that so I can
fit it into the other 150things to be done.
Speaker 1 (39:11):
Yeah, yeah, I know a lot of people who are like that.
Speaker 2 (39:13):
They're just kind of like oh you know, in a couple of
days it's like well.
Speaker 1 (39:19):
It's even challenging when you work in an environment
where everything is what my momalways referred to as like
instant gratification.
Everything's like right now,yeah, yeah.
Only there's only one thingthat can come first.
Something has to be second.
So I think that's important andwith people you know, when they
start infringing potentially onyour time or your boundary, I
(39:39):
would always just say you knowwhat, I'm not able to
accommodate that today.
But you'll be the first phonecall I make tomorrow, that's
right, or it'll be the firstthing I do in the morning.
And I felt like as a manager, Itried to give good deadlines to
my team too.
When I would ask for their help, I'd be like this is not a
today thing, put it on your list.
We also kept project plans.
(40:00):
So everybody every week kept arunning list of all the things
they were working on and wedropped it in a shared book so
we could all see progress.
So we didn't have to spend oneon one time going through an
Excel spreadsheet of all yourprojects.
They just sent it to me everyweek.
Yeah, things like that.
I could just monitor and theninquire as needed.
So that was a really helpfultool.
Speaker 2 (40:21):
Use the technology that's available to us.
It's so incredibly helpful.
We use Google Sheets and GoogleDocs a lot where we can all
just kind of log in and look atit at the same time and go back
and forth.
It saves on so much time beingable to use the comment feature.
There are things in place thatcan help that communication go a
(40:45):
little more smoothly, but yeah,the clarity of it is so
incredibly important.
Just this morning I useEisenhower's Matrix.
Have you ever heard of that?
Speaker 1 (40:56):
No, I haven't.
Speaker 2 (40:57):
So you write that down.
It does come from DwightEisenhower.
He used to use four quadrants,okay, and you know, in Quadrant
One he would look at it is thisurgent or not urgent?
And then in the other axis hewould look at is this important
or not important?
So in Quadrant One, if it'surgent and it's important, this
(41:22):
is going to go in the quadrantthat's labeled as do.
So these are the things I needto do now and then, if it's
urgent but it's not necessarilyimportant, these are the things
that I'm going to delay just alittle bit, like maybe I need to
put them on my calendar so thatI can get to them after I'm
done with the do.
And then, if it's important butit's not urgent, these are the
(41:46):
things that I can delegate.
You know, let me find somebodywho's really good at this.
I'm going to delegate to thisto them.
And if it's not important andit's not urgent, it's not
something that's going to helpyou move forward, and whatever
it is you need to do, thendelete it, get rid of it, don't
even look at it anymore, justkind of throw that in the trash.
And I will tell you that reallyhelps because I will have my
(42:10):
to-do list, like a lot of people, but when that to-do list gets
to be a certain number of things, that I start feeling, the
anxiety you know building up inmy chest like, oh, look at all
the things, how am I going tohandle this?
And then I just I get out myquadrants and I start putting
(42:32):
them in the appropriate quadrant, and then I can just sit back
and go, okay, all right, theseare the three things that I'm
going to do today.
This is all I'm going to worryabout in this moment, and it's
so incredibly helpful to be ableto organize that, and then it
helps me with everybody else.
I love that.
I had.
Speaker 1 (42:51):
I worked with a coach , so I had my own coach and he
shared in sort of a differentformat about the two concepts of
urgency and importance, and soI wondered where he got it.
Now I know, yeah, that's right.
Speaker 2 (43:06):
Thank you, dwight Eisenhower.
Speaker 1 (43:09):
Appreciate your brains.
I love the idea of trying totrue what you can really
delegate.
I think that's somethingleaders really struggle with in
one of two ways.
Either they love to delegateeverything or they want to hold
on to everything because theyfeel like they can do it better
than the rest of their team, orthey don't have time to teach
(43:31):
and show.
And my theory was always it'sjust the initial extra time you
just you put it in up front toteach.
It will pay itself back individends.
You just have to spend thattime up front.
Speaker 2 (43:45):
Okay.
So that's what you, that's whatyou're doing to try to
encourage them, because it canbecome a bottleneck If, if
you're the one who has to haveyour hands on everything,
there's going to come a timewhere just things are not going
to get done because it's stillwaiting on you to give the okay
on that.
So you recommend that theyspend a lot of time just
(44:08):
teaching others how to take careof this and exactly how it
should be taken care of, thethings that they want, the
expectations, and just babysteps.
Speaker 1 (44:18):
Absolutely, and I think you know it depends on the
skill.
So I'll use my last job as aquick example.
I was doing performancemanagement, so we were building
scorecards, and then I was incharge of building comp plans,
but we sent out tons of data toleaders across the company.
I was doing it for everybodyuntil I brought a team in and
taught them how I built things,where to pull it.
(44:40):
But we built, you know, checksand balances.
Initially it was they would doit and they would send it to me
to check so we could getaccustomed to it, because when
you send something as importantas data, you make any mistakes.
People start to question yourdata now, so you have to be
really, really careful incompliance and check your
quality, and so it was.
(45:01):
You know you give small pieces,you let them get to work on it
and over time you built thattrust and you teach the skills
and then you can teach more.
I got copied on all of theirwork so I could still look at it
.
But work is a little differentthan communication too, and it
depends on the audience.
So to me, everything is justteaching in small steps.
(45:23):
Let's say you want them tocommunicate to the entire senior
leadership team.
But the employee on your teamit's still, you know, lower in
rank, if you will.
They're not comfortable,they're not always thinking
about dialogue, they're notthinking about how it comes off
and punctuation, I mean, justlike the things that we take for
granted.
Not everybody's writtencommunication, it's stiller, and
(45:48):
sometimes that requires doublechecking and making sure how
they're communicating in thelanguage is acceptable.
I mean, when I think back to myvery first job and I'm going to
date myself we did memos oh,the memos, and I would type them
and my manager would have toapprove it and red ink would
(46:11):
come back with margins, words,whatever.
That's how I learned how towrite professionally in a way
that would be received well.
So same things.
But when you take on more andmore as a leader, your bandwidth
is finite.
So your options are right.
You can hire people, you candelegate, or you bury yourself.
(46:35):
So you got to find a way, and sothat's where learning how to be
a good hiring manager is reallyimportant too, but that's where
, yes, building your team tosupport you so you can
successfully delegate in thelong run is incredible.
That's building skill, rightyeah.
Speaker 2 (46:50):
Yeah.
So if you are a leader and youare thinking about, okay, I need
to build this team, I need tobring together a group of people
who are going to help meachieve this goal, when they are
interviewing, you know, fordifferent positions, have you
(47:10):
talked to them about how do youactually interview in a way that
you can kind of pinpoint thethings that you're looking for?
You know, if I'm wanting tofill a certain position, are
there certain things I mightwant to look for?
You know, during that interview, do you ever coach them on how
(47:30):
they're interviewing people, sothat they can become better at
discerning who might be the youknow the right person for the
job, versus just ah, well, let'sjust pick one?
Speaker 1 (47:41):
Absolutely Small business owners.
This is something they strugglewith People that have worked
for others, that are juststarting on their own Right.
They're not used to all thethings required to have a
successful team, even if it'sjust a couple of people.
So a word we talked aboutearlier preparation have
interview questions that Icreate for every role that are
(48:03):
designed to dig into what theymight know, because what's
important to performing well inthat role the phrase behavioral
interviewing is always whatcomes to mind.
So you do not want to askquestions that can allow your
candidate to just answer yes orno, Right, Because while we wish
everybody was truthful all thetime, when you want a job you
(48:25):
might say you have skills.
You don't.
You might say you haveexperience and things you don't.
So I write all of my questionswhere they are open-ended and
they have to come up withexamples, and you know you love
the phrase.
Tell me about a time.
It's situations that they candescribe with detail, so you get
a sense for do they have theskill?
(48:47):
Tell me about a time you hadconflict in the workplace with
one of your peers.
What was it about?
What were your first steps?
How long did you let it go on.
Before you decided to take youknow, did you go to your manager
?
Did you all the questions youcan ask about things that are
important to that role I loveone of my favorite questions is
(49:08):
asking people.
If I were to call their managertoday, which always kind of puts
them back what would they tellme are your best attributes or
what have you improved in themost?
And what are they going to tellme you're still working on?
Yeah, and that working on oryour weakness always seems to
(49:28):
trip people up.
They're always so scared totell the truth.
Right, I actually really wantto know the bat, not the bad
thing that you turn into a goodthing.
Yeah, that's how people, Ithink are coached.
I'm a little different.
I really want to know what doyou think is your weakness?
Speaker 2 (49:47):
Yeah, yeah, I love how you phrase that, though If I
were to call your manager, whatwould they tell me about your,
how well you did, or what aresome of the things that you're
working on?
Just, I think just phrasingthat in that way gets you to
think about it in a differentway.
(50:07):
I do think a lot of people doget stumped when you ask them
that question about strengthsand weaknesses, because if you
give them a framework, how doesmy manager look at me?
Or how would a former managerlook at me?
In this aspect, I think thatthat's actually a really great
(50:31):
way to ask that question,because it does force them from
the outside in yeah, what weresome of the things?
What was my performance like?
Speaker 1 (50:41):
Well, it's the growth mindset too.
I mean, when you are hiring forroles, we get really
pigeonholed into the have tohave this certain experience to
be really good in this role.
I have done that too.
Admittedly, that's one of myflaws.
I was looking for certainthings in my earlier years of
trying to hire Right.
I had leaders who put me intojobs that I wasn't sure I was
(51:04):
ready for and they were like weknow you can do this.
Yeah, I was really inspiredbased on just their confidence
in me, and so I've tried to paythat forward too.
You find someone that maybedoesn't have everything you're
looking for but has some ofthese core skills and you can
see hunger and you can seediscipline and you can teach a
(51:25):
lot of things, yeah.
But you can't teach motivationand you can't teach drive.
And so people that have a coreset of skills, even if it's not
how to use this computer programor maybe their communication
needs a little tweak.
There are things you can alwaysteach, but ability and attitude
(51:46):
, we know that's right.
Speaker 2 (51:48):
And to be a model that you had mentioned former
leaders who have been soinfluential in how you move
about this world.
I remember when I worked forFairfax County Public Schools
many, many years ago.
I was a communicationspecialist there and my boss
(52:08):
there to this day I still thinkshe is one of she should write a
leadership book.
She did end up becomingsuperintendent of the school
system, but I had interviewedfor the position that frankly, I
didn't think I was qualifiedfor.
But I applied for it anyway andI had to come in and I had to
(52:30):
do this presentation and it wasdown to me and this other woman
who already worked there and shehad already had her PhD like
she had a huge leg up on what Ihad to offer.
But they liked how I did thepresentation.
And later on, when I went intoher office and she made you know
the offer and then she told mehow you know how much the
(52:54):
position was going to pay, and Iwas like okay, and I think she
could tell that I was still soyoung in this.
She took that moment and shesaid you know, this is a pay
range and you can ask for moreIf, if, if, you think you
deserve more.
And I was like that never wouldhave occurred to me in a
(53:15):
million years.
And I was like, really.
And so what a lesson to learn,though, for someone you know,
coming into an industry and notvery familiar with it, you know
how things operate that was sucha pivotal moment for me in
(53:37):
recognizing, wow, this issomething like she really was
looking out for me, and so tothis day I have so much
admiration for her because everysingle time you know I would
come into the office, she just Ihad something new to learn from
her.
So it's, you know, don'tunderestimate the power of those
(53:58):
, those conversations that youcould have and just just be
giving you know of the knowledgethat you have.
Speaker 1 (54:07):
Well, it's interesting you say that because
, as you're talking, I'mthinking of this parallel theme
that many people and I won'tspecify which gender here, but
are not comfortable in the artof negotiating.
Speaker 2 (54:22):
Yeah, yeah, it's your self-worth.
Speaker 1 (54:23):
It's your own discomfort, and HR
representatives have reportedhow many people just accept the
salary and the package that'soffered.
I've coached people on you knowcareer counseling and how to
manage the interview process forthat reason, and you know
what's the worst thing they say.
Speaker 2 (54:41):
No, yeah, and if they say no, okay it's no, but if
you don't make the ask, it'sdefinitely going to be no.
Speaker 1 (54:51):
It's a funny phenomenon and I think it's
something I struggled with as ayounger leader too.
It's always imposter syndrome.
It's knowing your value andyour worth and, you know, being
willing to stand up for yourselfand what you believe in and ask
for those things.
Yeah, yeah.
Speaker 2 (55:08):
I think another lesson there that I learned from
her is don't assume that thepeople who are working for you
know.
Just don't assume that theyknow.
Whatever it is that you knowyou're thinking about and just
you know.
Like the pay range is just oneexample, there are just so many
things that we work on in anygiven day.
(55:30):
If you just assume that theyknow, I think you're inviting
you know trouble and then youknow and I think that builds
trust as well If you just takethat moment to let them know
that you want them to know theseanswers, because it's really
going to help them downrange,right.
Speaker 1 (55:50):
Well, I'm making them feel comfortable because things
you do every day that are sosecond nature to you.
I mean, my house has been in asmall business owner.
We talk about this all the timewhen you create material or you
do things for the public andyou think they know the inner
workings, the lingo, the juPeople that you need to write
things.
You know we always joke likefor a second grader, but you
(56:12):
need to write things and presentthings in a way that people can
understand that know nothingabout your business.
And that's a really interestingpoint.
When you start talking incertain circles, you have to
make people feel comfortable toask questions and to what I call
accept the table, like here'sthe context of what we're going
to talk about.
If anyone doesn't understandwhat, like, let's just cover it
(56:34):
now.
And people are always hesitant,right?
They don't want to ask thequestion that might make them
look like they don't know whatthey're talking about.
How many times have you sat ina room with senior leaders who
would say can you back that up?
I really don't get what thatlike the senior leaders can do.
It all the time I've seen this,but it's the ones you know that
are on the front lines and theentry level positions that are
(56:55):
like no, I can't raise my hand,yeah, yeah.
Speaker 2 (56:57):
I can't ask that question.
Speaker 1 (57:01):
But the senior leaders have no problem.
I don't really understand whatthat means.
That doesn't make any sense tome.
Speaker 2 (57:06):
Yeah, yeah.
So if you're a leader out there, make sure that you are setting
up the communication climate inyour office in such a way that
your employees feel comfortableand confident that they can ask
the questions.
It's just going to benefiteverybody.
Speaker 1 (57:23):
Well, the other thing I heard that I really liked
Marshall Goldsmith tells somestories and some of his coaching
online about when you'resoliciting feedback from your
team and you're trying to pursuemore collaboration to make that
environment safe.
You thank people for theirideas.
Back of your mind, you maythink I'm never going to use
this or this probably wouldn'twork, but you never say that
(57:46):
publicly.
Yeah, it's always.
Thank you for that suggestion.
We're going to take that intoconsideration.
Or thank you for sharing youropinion.
That's a great thought, likejust always making people feel
welcome to talk because younever know what that might
solicit in a domino effect fromsomebody else who might have a
game changing idea.
Speaker 2 (58:05):
Yeah, yeah.
And if you shut them downimmediately or embarrass them in
front of the group, you know,if it's done publicly like that,
then what you're going to do isthe next time you have a
conversation, the next time youhave this brainstorming session
and you're asking everyone fortheir input, they're not going
to give it Hope.
It'll be cringes, yeah, andthey could have the best idea
(58:28):
ever the next billion dollaridea could be stuck in their
head.
But they're like, nope, I'mgoing to keep my mouth shut,
because last time, you know, Ididn't like how I was treated.
I was embarrassed or you knowwhatever.
So it really doesn't do anybodyany good To do that in public.
I think that's a great piece ofadvice right there.
Speaker 1 (58:50):
It's.
You know it's always easier topoke holes in people's things.
It is harder to be a generator.
You know, when you create apresentation or you make a
suggestion, everybody's got anopinion when they look at your
things or they hear what you'resuggesting.
It does take a little morecourage to be the generator of
the documents, the ideas, yeah,but I think it's always a good
(59:11):
place to start too, because weneed people that can do that and
then others can weigh in, and Ihave worked in groups where you
get people that they ask totake the exact opposite opinion,
tell us all the things thatcould go wrong, just to help
think through an entire Solution, which I think is really
fascinating, especially if it'sthe person that had the idea and
(59:34):
it's a big one.
Okay, you know, you're the onethat has to poke holes in it and
this group gets to decide whyit's going to be good.
So you have to sort of Attemptto defend your own idea by
thinking about the completeother side.
Speaker 2 (59:45):
Yeah, I think it's great, because you're not really
aware of your own blind spotsUntil you're forced to pay
attention to differentperspectives.
I think that's a great exerciseto have for for any department,
any organization.
You know, we like to sit downand have those skull sessions
where it's like, okay, we'regonna rewrite the mission
(01:00:06):
statement.
You know, we're gonna rewriteour value statements and I want
everybody to have input, youknow.
Or, if there's something, someproblem that has to be resolved,
to be able to sit down in thegroup and Hear from all of those
different perspectives.
But if you are forced to reallyhave to think about let's you
know what could go wrong in thislet's sit on this for just a
(01:00:29):
moment, let this marinade for alittle bit, you know, and try to
come up with some, somedifferent ways that you think
that maybe this isn't the bestthing that we could do at this
moment.
Speaker 1 (01:00:40):
I think one of my other favorite things in
corporate when I do coaching iswe have a tendency to Want to
put band-aids on things.
Yeah, not try to solve thelong-term solution and the
band-aids aren't always the bestMm-hmm and to think long term.
(01:01:01):
Maybe it will cost a littlemore, maybe there's technology
involved, maybe it's people likewho knows what the elements
might be.
But sometimes band-aidsolutions just create other
problems and I think it's reallyimportant to try to do that
whole champion, challenger,pro-con like think through, yeah
(01:01:21):
, what the real solutions shouldbe.
Speaker 2 (01:01:24):
Yeah, in public speaking we call that mental
dialogue.
So if you could have a mentaldialogue, if, if you're gonna
create an argument for something, try to anticipate well, what
is the audience thinking aboutthat?
If you have people in theaudience who are not gonna agree
with this, what is thatdisagreement?
What are they gonna be thinkingin that moment in time?
(01:01:45):
And so that way you can craftyour message in a way that you
can address that concern.
You know, right then and therein your Presentation.
So I like the idea of if youhave a group sitting down, yeah,
play, play the back and forthyou know, have you do it, and I
think it's a great exercisebecause it does force you to
(01:02:07):
have those differentperspectives which is so
important.
Speaker 1 (01:02:11):
We can't get stuck in a group thing, you know,
especially when we talked abouthiring people, people with
different experiences, differentperspectives.
It's a balancing act, becausethat's important, and then the
dynamic of the personality in ateam.
Yeah, so it's a combination oftrying to look at the persona
and the experience, because Iknow when I'm a leader, if I'm
(01:02:33):
not good at something and it'smy weakness, I would like to
hire somebody that is reallystrong there.
That makes my team better.
Yeah, you know, you don't wantto be threatened by your team.
You want to celebrate theirsuccess.
You want, you know, the bestthing they can do is,
potentially, you work for themand you've built such a great
(01:02:53):
relationship.
It doesn't matter anyway.
That's right.
Yeah, the best compliment isyou take off for a week or two
or you potentially leave aposition because you relocate
which I did and that team runssmoothly without you.
Yeah, that's me is the bestcompliment.
I don't want to fall apart whenI'm not there.
I wanted you thrive.
Speaker 2 (01:03:13):
Yeah, because you did your job and making sure that
everybody is is able to performthe way they need to perform.
Speaker 1 (01:03:21):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (01:03:22):
Yeah, that's great.
Well, robert, we've alreadytalked of over an hour now.
I think we did a good job,though we did a very good job at
pretty much focusing oncommunication in the workplace
and in leadership and inManagers.
I'm pretty proud of us forstaying focused in that area.
(01:03:43):
We could very easily go in ahundred different directions
when when we're talking aboutcommunication.
Yeah, yeah, so the hour went byway too fast.
There are so many other thingsthat we can talk about, so I
will have you back on the showso we can dive into some of
those other topics, because Ireally want to hear what you
(01:04:06):
have to say About those.
But before we wrap it up, isthere anything that you would
like to say to the audience?
You know any parting words ofwisdom, if you will.
Speaker 1 (01:04:19):
Yes, actually I have a good one.
It's one you and I talked aboutand I think it's something that
resonated with you in mychapter as a matter of fact.
So we have this saying in myhousehold over here, and it can
be applied to Anything, whetherit's personal, professional
relationships.
You make time for the thingsyou value.
(01:04:39):
That's right and so it's.
You know I'm too busy, I can'tcall this person, I can't spend
time with this person, I can'thelp this person.
Anything you value you willmake time for, and that even
goes with Deprioritize yourhealth and wellness.
Is it your relationships?
Is it walking, your whatever itis in life?
That phrase has served me sowell as my true north to keep me
(01:05:05):
on track, for what are thethings I value first of all?
How do I make sure I have timein almost every day to act upon
those things?
Speaker 2 (01:05:16):
Yeah, I cannot tell you how many times I had that
phrase stuck in my head,especially over the past several
months.
So that's where we'll pick upthe next time I have you on on
the show because, yeah, thatphrase right there, it really
did help with some of thepersonal things you know.
Yes, we're going on, so I thankyou for sharing that.
(01:05:39):
Yeah, and I know somebody elseis listening to this and I think
it'll be an incredible help tothem as well.
Speaker 1 (01:05:46):
Good, I hope so.
Speaker 2 (01:05:48):
All right, well then, that is it for today.
Oh, before we, my dog isscratching on the doors, so
we're hearing.
If you're hearing any scratcheson the door, so why don't you
share with the listeners howthey can get in touch with you?
Speaker 1 (01:06:04):
Oh sure, so you can contact me directly on my
website, which is my name, www.
Robin, which is robin.
I'm also on LinkedIn, so that'salso my name.
I'm also on Instagram, robin MLcoach, so you can find me lots
of different places and you candrop me a note or an email
through my website If you feellike we might be a fit for
(01:06:27):
coaching or interested in myservices.
It's all out there and you canconnect with me that way.
Speaker 2 (01:06:31):
Outstanding, I'll make sure all that information
is available in the show notes.
All right, thanks again, robin,for being a guest on my show.
This has been such a greatconversation for me and I'll be
sure to have you back again.
Great, I look forward to it.
All right, thanks everybody.
Have a great rest of your day.
Bye.
(01:06:53):
Hi, thanks for listening, if youenjoyed this episode and you'd
like to help support the podcast.
Please share it with others,post about it on social media
and I'll see you next time.
Please share it with others,post about it on social media or
leave a rating and a review.
Welcome to the Communication 24-7 podcast,
where we communicate about howwe communicate.
I'm your host, jennifer Furlong.
I have a special guest with metoday, robin Lukasen.
(00:30):
She is an executive businesscoach.
I asked her to be on thepodcast because she and I met.
We are co-authors in a bookcalled Cracking the Rich Code.
You've heard me talk about thisbook before.
I was really lucky in that Ihappened to be in this same book
(00:52):
as Robin.
We decided, hey, let's have alittle chat, just get to know
you.
We ended up hitting it off andwe had so many things in common.
Our conversation lasted a verylong time.
Finally, I was like we need toget this on to the podcast
because we talked all thingscommunication.
(01:13):
I really think she has a lot ofreally insightful things to say
about communication andrelationships and things that we
can do in order to improve ourcommunication skills.
Robin, thank you so much forbeing on the show.
I'm so happy to see you again.
Thank you, jen.
I'm really excited to be here.
(01:34):
Yeah, why don't we get theaudience caught up?
You and I have already hadgreat conversations, but they
need to get caught up on wherewe are.
Do you mind just tell us alittle bit about.
I know you started your ownbusiness not too long ago, but
catch us up to the career youhad before you started your
(01:57):
business and how that helped youmake the decision to go the
path that you're on now.
Speaker 1 (02:04):
Sure, I like to refer to myself affectionately as a
corporate dropout.
I spent 26 years in mortgagebanking.
All of my background is runningoperations, so sites across the
United States and even partnersoverseas.
And then the last probably sixto 10 years I really started to
focus on more strategic efforts.
I would be in a chief of staffrole.
(02:27):
I started getting reallyinvolved with financial partners
so P&L building comp plans,working with the sales partners,
really chief of staff type work, so the operations leaders
could do what they needed to doand I could work behind the
scenes.
Having been in roles like them,I also spent a lot of time in
data and performance management.
I live my life by Excel.
(02:48):
I love organization, so who isa great fit?
About three and a half years ago, when I was working at my last
corporate job, I got connectedwith a woman who ran a mortgage
and real estate coaching firmout on the East Coast.
She was based out there, shewas an ex sales leader, got
connected to her.
I immediately became a coach,and every coach wears a certain
(03:10):
hat, if you will, so everybodyspecializes in some area.
I became the relationship coach, and not necessarily to work on
personal relationships, butjust how you build relationships
in the workplace.
Working corporate, I could onlyreally moonlight, so I did
hours from four to seven and Ifound that even after the
(03:31):
longest days.
So, mind you, this is March of2020,.
I started a new job and startedcoaching right when the world
went sideways.
Speaker 2 (03:40):
I was working a lot.
Speaker 1 (03:41):
What's going on.
I was working 10 to 12 hours aday and then coaching at night,
and what I found was that waswhat really energized me.
I felt better after thosesessions than just about
anything I was doing incorporate.
All those years, I wasunofficially coaching people.
I've had hundreds of leadersunder me that I've helped and
(04:04):
worked with and developed, so Iwas already doing it
unofficially.
This was just the first chanceI got to be in the role and I
really fell in love with it.
When the mortgage market reallystarted to have challenges in
2022, I was laid off and Ithought to myself I was going to
wait two and a half more yearsto pursue this full time when my
(04:27):
son graduated high school, butI felt like this was the right
time.
Last summer, I decided to intandem.
I still work for that firm.
I pursued my own business andthat's what I'm working to grow
right now as an executive coach.
Speaker 2 (04:40):
That is fantastic.
One of the things that, as anexecutive business coach and I
think with your background inthe mortgage industry and being
so much of a chief of staff,really as a chief of staff you
really do have to deal with allkinds of different personalities
(05:00):
.
You have to really see the bigpicture and how the different
pieces of the puzzle can fittogether.
What do you think was the mostchallenging part of all of that?
As you were figuring out yeah,you know what I'm doing more of
the relationship management typeof things.
(05:20):
What was challenging about?
Speaker 1 (05:23):
that for you, the hardest thing you learn when you
are a leader and you have topartner with others is the
concept of managing throughinfluence.
I'm in a VP type role, if youwill, and I have a really small
team of people that are workingunder me and partnering with the
business, but I'm facing offwith all the senior VPs and the
(05:46):
C-suite as either the ambassadorfor my boss or running my own
initiatives, buildingrelationships with all of those
people for them to understand mycredibility and my experience.
As we used to have the saying,you don't walk into rooms guns
blazing and telling everybodywhat you want to do.
It's a slow burn to introduceyourself, share what you've done
(06:10):
, and it takes time.
So it's sitting back andlistening for a while, not being
the first one to speak.
That's a hard thing for mesometimes.
The thoughts in my head it wasreally working to build
relationships.
In the beginning I would reachout and set up 30-minute calls
(06:32):
with a lot of these peers andpartners before I ever had to
work with them More, tounderstand what their role was,
how long they've been with thecompany, what had they done
before Professionally.
It was important to me to knowwhat their role was where they
had challenges, how we might beable to partner.
But I tend to ask a fewpersonal questions if I feel
(06:54):
like it's the right environment.
The company I was working forwas based in my home state, in
the town where I went to college.
I'm very familiar with the area.
I knew where a lot of peoplelived.
We had this commonality ofgeography so we could start
there.
And then it's children and petsand hobbies.
You just start to slowly buildrapport.
(07:16):
The next time you talk to them.
I think it's always importantto remember things that people
told you about their personallife.
It was really just working tobuild that relationship,
offering my help as much aspossible, getting involved in as
many things as I could, so Icould really understand the
corporate culture, the landscapeof responsibilities when I
(07:39):
started to offer help so eitherhelp them on something or offer
some expertise that started tobuild the bond and then people
got to understand what I wascapable of.
Then I didn't have a shortageof work.
Let's just say that, yeah.
Speaker 2 (07:55):
Yeah, I'm sure it was something that was sorely
needed.
I think a lot of people,especially in corporate America.
They're almost starving for away to be able to make
connections with others.
I think we all feel sodisconnected now.
We could blame social media, wecould blame having to work from
(08:19):
home, especially during thepandemic.
There are so many differentthings that are competing for
our attention.
I've heard from a lot of peoplewho work in the workforce going
into the office on a daily basis.
Even though you're in there andyou get to see people, it's
(08:39):
easy to feel somewhatdisconnected from them,
especially if you areuncomfortable or maybe you don't
know how to have thoseconversations.
I'm sure there's a culturalcomponent to it as well, as far
as leadership modeling, thattype of openness and willingness
to have those types ofconversations to build those
(09:00):
relationships.
Did you have any conversationswith the higher echelon to let
them know that you were doingthis, you were having these
one-on-ones and having theseconversations to build the
relationships, or did you justsay you know what?
I know this is the right thingto do.
I'm going to do it now ratherthan ask permission.
Speaker 1 (09:23):
It's interesting.
I felt like when I was broughtin I was introduced to someone
that had a lot of expertise inthe industry.
My boss was really good atgiving me that initial ground
cover and really punting a lotof things.
Robin can do it, robin can doit.
I was brand new to the company.
Some of those C-suite leaderswere some of the people that I
really pursued havingconversation with.
(09:44):
They were part of that as wellwhen they found out some of the
things I could do and then theystarted to come to me.
I would try to do the samethings, try to build that
rapport, understand about them.
What can I help them with?
Because to me, the more mindsyou get in the room without
getting too big, because thenthere's too many opinions those
(10:06):
differences are really importantwhen you make decisions.
Sometimes people get nervouswhen outsiders come in because
they're worried we're going tochange the culture or the
decision paths we've been onwill be disrupted.
My belief has always been let'sjust share different
perspectives and let's land onthe best one, whoever it is.
(10:28):
Some people are really open tothat and others it takes them a
little more to realize the wholeconcept of someone being a
threat to your job.
That's one you always want toovercome.
I found that when I would startto detect people that would
(10:49):
potentially omit you from ameeting or don't want your
opinions, those are the ones Iwork harder to let them
understand.
My runway for work is not 25years and I'm trying to build
more steps in my ladder.
I'm completely content where Iam.
I'm here to help you achieveyour goals, and let some of my
experiences be a good guide foryou.
(11:12):
I mean, 26 years is a long timeto be in management.
I think that's why it's helpedme as a coach.
If I can help other peopleavoid some of the missteps I've
had, that's success in my booktoo.
Speaker 2 (11:27):
Yeah, do you ever have conversations with
leadership or even just managers, and how they can also use this
as a way to connect with theiremployees?
Do you talk to them abouthaving one-on-ones and the
importance of that?
Speaker 1 (11:44):
I mean, that is literally not to little
tongue-in-cheek here.
One of my number one things Itell people when I meet them is
what are your rhythms androutines with your team?
Whether you are a first-linemanager, a manager of other
leaders, there's multiplecheckpoints in my opinion.
You take just a manager that'smaybe got 10 or 12 people.
(12:06):
I always was a fan of a littlehuddle in the morning.
15 minutes set the day.
What were the results fromyesterday?
What's the tone for today?
Once a month, is it possible tospend 15 minutes or 20 with
each of your team?
Because getting to know them ona personal level, that is not
attached to a problem which isgenerally when you bring people
(12:29):
to your cube or in your office.
It's just let's talk.
What do you like about workinghere?
What could we do differently?
And walk the floor.
If you are in the kind ofenvironment where you're able to
be out and be seen every day,that's so important.
And when you get to managementlevel and you've got different
layers of managers underneathyou.
I used to meet with my managersonce a week, if I could, or at
(12:52):
least once every two weeks, sotwice a month and we have our
list of things they want to workon.
We have the list of things thatI've got, but it always starts
with the personal and I thinkthe thing that made me different
as a leader and one thing Ilike to coach about is at the
end of a lot of my sessions,once we got to know each other,
(13:12):
I would ask them what do youwish I did more of and what do
you wish I did less of?
And initially people areconcerned to share a criticism
of their boss to their face.
But when you build the trustand the rapport, they can say I
hate those follow-up emailsabout that same topic every day,
(13:33):
or I hate when you step on mydesk when I first walk in the
door, whatever it is, and Ialways, like I will do my best
to accommodate because everybodyneeds to be managed differently
.
So one-on-one time, not just totalk about business results,
but just the person that makesall the difference in the world.
Speaker 2 (13:54):
Yeah, and I think there are so many leaders who
are action-oriented and they canbe so focused on the next goal,
what it is that we're workingtoward.
This is the mission.
You know, I see where, exactlywhere we need to be.
So these are all the thingsthat we need to put in place.
Go, go, go, go go.
Let's go for it.
And it's really easy to forgetto make time for those things.
(14:19):
So you recommend, you know,just once a month for about a
half an hour, have thosepersonal conversations, just
kind of get to know you andhow's it going.
Speaker 1 (14:29):
Yep and it's follow-up more about how their
time is going in their job, whatis happening with the peers and
partners they work with.
Do they like the dynamic on theteam?
And sometimes, if they arecomfortable, you can ask them
about their relationship withtheir manager, if this is
something like a manager that'sstarting to talk to staff on the
floor, and I think that is onething that I have watched over
(14:52):
and over again in companies assenior leaders rise through the
ranks their ability to stayconnected to the front lines,
whatever the job is, whetherit's customer service,
manufacturing, mortgage.
I understand how busy we canget, but even when I had sites
of a couple hundred people, itwas important to me to connect
(15:14):
two people every day, becausewho knows better about making
decisions and what is happeningthan the people that are doing
the job every day?
And their voice matters and youknow if you've got multiple
layers of management betweenyourself and the front line.
People manage up right.
They tell you what they thinkyou need to know and as a senior
(15:38):
leader, you sometimes can bemissing critical information.
Speaker 2 (15:41):
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you are personally orprofessionally and you want to
level up your life, then I havea book for you.
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(16:04):
This book offers some valuableentrepreneurial insights that
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my website,wwwcommunication247.com.
It helps to smooth out theconflicts that are inevitably
(16:27):
going to happen in the workplace.
I mean, we're a bunch of peoplegetting together.
At some point there's going tobe a disagreement.
Somebody's going to saysomething that somebody else
didn't like, or you're going todo something that steps on their
toes.
You know we can't help it.
Sorry, the human animal.
We are prone to conflict.
You know we all have differentlikes, dislikes.
(16:48):
You know ideals and beliefs,and so being able to establish
those relationships I think isso important because down the
road, when the conflict doeshappen and it's going to happen
I think it just makes it alittle more.
It just helps smooth the way alittle more so that you can have
(17:09):
those difficult conversationsthat you're going to have to
have.
You got to build that trust inorder for that to happen.
That's so critical.
Speaker 1 (17:18):
I have a funny story.
I had a friend here yesterdayfor the 4th of July and she was
a manager that worked for me.
At one point she was here withher husband and we were, you
know, just kind of catching upon things.
She's still in the industry.
She made a funny comment to herhusband about one of the
biggest lessons that she'dlearned from me as a leader was
know your audience.
You've got to be reallycognizant of how casual you want
(17:43):
to speak and who is sitting inthat room, you know.
And she said I remember beingcalled to the principal's office
once or twice.
But she said it has served meso well and I think you're very
right that when you've built therelationship, difficult
conversations don't have to bedifficult.
(18:04):
I mean as leaders, when youwrite people up or when you have
to address behavior or any ofthose tense things that can
happen.
I never felt like those weredifficult conversations to have.
I'm not saying I didn't getnervous once in a while.
But I felt like I was reallygood about setting expectations
and touching base so that if weget to a point where things are
(18:26):
really going sideways, you'renot surprised.
You've known all along.
We've offered you all thesolutions.
You know it's really the ballsin your court, so how do we help
you get there?
Yeah, it doesn't have to betense.
Speaker 2 (18:39):
I'm so glad that you said it doesn't mean that I'm
not nervous when thoseconversations happen.
Can you say a little more aboutthat?
Because it sounds like it's thepreparation If you've set the
expectations and you know youreally do want to set them up
for success, so the expectationsand how to get there is so
(19:03):
critically important, but yetyou still can get nervous at
having those conversations.
Were there things that youwould do to kind of work through
those nerves?
Because I know there are a lotof leaders out there in managers
who really just they absolutelyloathe having to have these
conversations with theiremployees.
Speaker 1 (19:24):
You know it's funny.
I can think back to so manytimes when people needed to be
put on a warning or performanceimprovement plan or even an
determination, and I always feltlike those were the reasons
building relationships was soimportant, because if we got to
that place, the first timethey're seeing me wouldn't be
when we're sitting across fromthe table from one another and
I'm about to walk them out thedoor.
(19:45):
I never would want that to bethe experience of people that
work with me.
You know, unfortunately, partof the solve is it takes time
and you have to sort of honeyour craft.
What always worked for me, toyour point about being prepared,
was does everybody know what'sexpected of them before we get
to conversations of you aren'tmeeting expectations or you're
(20:08):
falling way below?
What do they already have intheir possession?
What do they already know?
Let's make sure the playingfield is level for everybody and
that we've given them a fewfair conversations before we're
getting to something morepermanent.
That's going to be on therecord.
Let's say so by the time you'reactually sitting with somebody.
We've had some informalconversations.
(20:29):
They are aware you've offeredthings to them.
What more can I do to help you?
Is it training?
Is it?
Do you want to shadow somebody?
Is it?
Do you need to go into the lab?
Whatever it is, it's having allyour ducks in a row.
And I think the thing for me isnot only we've got the baseline
of conversations, we always haveto document things because
(20:51):
that's always important for ourHR partners.
To me, it was just staying calmand I will say your tone, the
pace at which you talk in yourbody language, are so important
when you're talking to anybody,for that matter, but especially
intense situations, I found Ican speak fast when I get
(21:12):
excited and happy and I was verycalm going in.
I lowered my voice and I reallyslowed down and I had dialogue
with a lot of these people likeokay, so here's why we're here
today.
These are things we've talkedabout before.
Now, unfortunately, here'swhere we're at.
(21:33):
It's a very calm environmentbecause we're talking about a
lot of things that we've.
Just, it's a very calmenvironment because people are
so nervous when you tap on mom'sshoulder or you call them
unexpectedly, or you put it timeon their calendar that they
weren't expecting to meet withtheir boss all the different
ways that you can get surprised.
So it's sort of I don't want tosay disarming, because I'm not
(21:56):
trying to trick them, but it'sfor me.
And then what I taught otherswas just how these are people.
So let's just be sensitive, dothe right things up until this
point and just let them alwaysknow that they are in control.
It's their ability and resourcesto either improve or here's
what's going to happen.
Speaker 2 (22:15):
Yeah, you said something so important there,
talking about being aware ofyour own emotions and how that
is going to impact the wayyou're communicating.
That's going to impact thatmessage that they're receiving.
The message you send may notnecessarily be the message
received.
So, being mindful of that andjust pausing for a moment and
(22:39):
recognizing putting a label tohow am I feeling in this moment,
because I know if I don't takea deep breath, calm things down
a little bit and, like you said,you can speak a little more
slowly, which is going to giveyou the opportunity to think
about what you are going to saynext.
Yeah, and it just kind ofdeflates the situation just ever
(23:04):
so slightly.
Little things like that can havea huge impact on the outcome of
those types of conversations.
So, while you're recognizinghow are my emotions having an
impact on how I'm communicating,I think it's equally as
important to think about theother person and how might their
(23:24):
emotions in this moment impacthow they're communicating with
me?
Because if they're hearingsomething that's not going to be
comfortable, they're having tolisten to this and take it in.
It's not going to be verysurprising if they snap back or
if they feel like you detect alittle tone, and they're always
yeah.
Speaker 1 (23:45):
And that's also why you feel prepared with evidence,
information, things that areirrefutable and again, it's
always trying to make somebodyfeel comfortable on how can we
solve this, coming from themindset of we want to fix this
and work with you and improvethings.
We're not trying to take thesteps for a negative exit, but I
will tell you something elsefunny when I think about tone
(24:09):
and volume.
It has served me well insettings where it's really
senior leadership too, becauseif I'm talking too fast or I say
too much and I love details Ican watch eyes just sort of get
glazed over.
So it's to the point concise.
I keep my tone slow and lowerthere too to keep attention.
(24:32):
So I feel like it's worked insituations that can be tense.
But also we talk about readingthe audience and what they need
and how I can get them to listento what I want them to hear too
.
Speaker 2 (24:46):
Yeah, did you ever In your time, when you're having
all of these conversations Iknow you spent a lot of time
with leadership Were you ever ina position where you were able
to coach employees on how tocommunicate effectively upwards
(25:06):
so that they can positionthemselves, in order to just Get
themselves into a positionwhere they would be considered,
you know, for for a promotion?
Or you know anything in theworkplace to have the leadership
notice them?
You know if you will.
Speaker 1 (25:24):
I think that's you know, when I think back to my
first company, I spent the first11 years of my career at one
company and I tell a story in mychapter in the book, actually
about a gift I got from one ofthe managers.
She was on my team but it was alittle jar that had on the
front written therapy fund andit was sit on my back table
(25:46):
because people always would popinto my office and sit in that
extra chair and ask for advice,and it really started with my
team.
You know, in mortgage, whenyou're trying to deal with
difficult Decisions anddifficult transactions with your
sales partners and bankingpartners and it's that's where
it initially started.
But how do I type this email?
How do I respond to that?
You know it was coaching onlanguage that in written form
(26:11):
would be received.
Well, right, or how do I talkto this person?
They're so angry.
Help me diffuse the situation.
Then I started to have otherleaders From other departments
come and pop in and talk to meabout their problems too, and it
could be similarly.
I'm having challenges with myboss.
(26:32):
As an executive coach, I havecoached people that are really
challenged with the relationshipwith their boss and and talking
about whether it be same-sex oropposite sex.
You know there's differentdynamics that happen there in
different personalities andWorking with people of the
opposite sex you have to thinkabout potentially how you're
(26:53):
going to talk to them people ofthe same sex and there's office
politics and just generalpolitics.
So I Think often it's if I knewtheir managers, it was
definitely a lot easier for meto help guide them and and
teaching them to Work onemotional intelligence, which I
didn't know that phrase up untila few years ago I think my
(27:16):
instincts and how to read peopleand to manage myself.
I didn't know it had formalname, but it's something I think
I started dialing into whichhelped me in my relationship
building and coach Others about.
You know this guy doesn't liketo sit and talk for 30 minutes.
If you want his attention,these are the steps he should
probably take.
Or this guy goes and getscoffee every morning at 10 15.
(27:39):
If you're trying to catch them,pop into the coffee.
You know it's always like theHelp me, help you like help me
get some information or someintel.
Or I will share with you what Iknow and then we can start to
make a plan on how to get youwhere you want to go, pay
attention, attention to whateverybody is doing and and thank
you for highlighting that thereare, you know, not everybody
(28:03):
has the same communication style.
Speaker 2 (28:05):
This is what I talk about when I go into
organizations and work withteams Our different
communication styles.
You, this person, may not bethe people oriented
communication style and you'reright, they don't want to spend
30 minutes talking about howlittle Jimmy did in his soccer
(28:26):
game last weekend.
You know, it's just and it'snot that that's bad.
I mean, there's no good or badto the different communication
styles, it's just different.
So if you do know that thisperson is more action oriented
and like earlier you said to thepoint, yeah, give them the
conclusion first.
(28:46):
Right your best two or threepoints that you want to
highlight and be done with it.
Maybe provide a visual, becauseI know action oriented people
love charts and graphs and theycan see it right there on one,
you know one screen, but it'sit's really helpful to really
learn your co-workers and theboss and everybody who's a part
(29:11):
of this organization, because ifyou do end up having to have,
you know, some type of acommunication with them, you're
going to be able to get a lotfarther with them if you can
adapt to their communicationstyle and and I think that's
incredibly important you know,in building relationships you
(29:31):
seem like you're probably moreof the people oriented type of
communication style.
Did you ever feel at any pointthat you were overwhelmed with
everybody coming into youroffice and sharing, especially
early on, when you didn'trealize that this was the path
you're going to go on?
You know, I'm sure at the verybeginning you weren't like, yeah
(29:52):
, one day I'm gonna be anexecutive business coach and
this is kind of by practice toget to that point.
Did you ever get overwhelmedwith sometimes like I just can't
have one more person walkinginto my office and In sharing
something with me I'm too muchoverloaded?
Speaker 1 (30:08):
You know it's funny.
For me it was more aboutbalancing.
I have things I need to getdone.
As much as I would love to sitand help everybody, I still had
things to do.
And you know mortgage bankingis a very intense Industry.
We always joke it's eitherdrinking through a fire hose or
you know it's drip, drip and youwonder if you're gonna have a
(30:29):
job, and most of my career were12 hour days or 10 hour days.
I should also note I'm not anearly bird at all.
I'm not the kind of person thatwould come into the office
really early to get a head start.
I'd rather stay late.
But I did adopt a practiceearly on when I would try to
just make at least the first 45minutes of my day about what I
(30:53):
needed to get done to set my dayup for success.
It was difficult as a leader towalk into like hey, robin, hey,
oh, can you do this?
I need help, I need yoursignature, like whoa.
That was difficult for me and Ihad to talk to my team and just
say I will be available to youat any point after this time.
Please just give me this space.
(31:15):
And Boundaries are a word that Ifeel like are coming up a lot
in my one-on-one coachingsessions right now People
feeling comfortable to statewhat their boundary is or
offering solutions when somebodyis encroaching on their
boundary.
The energy thing is somethingthat is also new for me.
(31:35):
So, in terms of overwhelm,while I'm really good at
creating boundaries, mm-hmm, Ihave found since I've slowed
down in my business life and I'mnot, you know, chained
conference calls and work outputand spreadsheets a lot of
energy I'm able to pick up on atlike empathically, hmm, and so
(31:57):
I have started to observe incrowds and lots of people.
I do pick up a lot of Energythere and I work to manage mine,
which is a very new phenomenonfor me.
I felt like I always had goodinstincts, intuition, and I feel
like my intuition has bumped upto another level, probably
because I'm tapping into allthese new parts of my brain.
(32:19):
It wasn't using.
Speaker 2 (32:21):
Yeah, I think it's really easy for anyone in the
workplace because it's kind ofingrained in our culture.
Right, it's work, work, workand all these long days and we
just go, go, go, and it's reallyeasy to to mistaken working a
lot for being productive, youknow, and and it's also easy to
(32:46):
mistake working a lot or alwaysbeing accessible with being seen
as a good leader or as a goodmanager.
A lot of people areuncomfortable with asserting
themselves though.
You know, if there's somethinghas come up, okay, I got to drop
what I'm doing and deal withthis, and that's not always the
case.
How do you help managers andleaders become comfortable with
(33:13):
setting those boundaries becausethat is a critical piece, I
think and being being aneffective leader, just like you
said.
Okay, guys, guess what?
Just give me my 45 minutes whenI get in the door and I'm going
to be a much better person toanswer all of your questions,
you know, after that.
I think that was probablyincredibly effective for your
(33:35):
team, for them to know that.
How do you, how do you buildthat, that sense of confidence
to be able to say that to beginwith?
If you've read my book Crackingthe Rich Code, you know it is
chock full of fantastic advicefrom top thought leaders and
super successful entrepreneursfrom around the world.
(33:56):
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(34:18):
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Speaker 1 (34:31):
I think there's a few tricks I learned along the way
to that I share with leaders.
I'm actually coaching someone.
We had a session Thursdaytalking about this very topic
and just the concept of turninghis teams off at 6.30 at night,
because when people can see yourgreen dot on teams that you're
available, they don't hesitateto reach out and some people
(34:54):
like quiet time.
At the end of the day, you areentitled to have some time to
get your work done and I thinkyou know the key with any new
leader with a team is you can'tinitially do that.
You've got to learn the team,learn the process, dig in, spend
the time Once you getcomfortable and you started to
build that rapport and you findwhat your working rhythm is with
(35:16):
the people that work for you.
I think it's a lot easier to setsome boundaries and I say
boundaries with like a 90% ifyou're lucky adherence rate,
because things go wrong andpeople still need help and there
are emergencies and I alwaysmade it clear that this is how I
prefer to operate.
(35:36):
Clearly, if there is a fouralarm fire, you may come see me,
things like that, but peopleget used to you being available
when you make yourself reallyavailable and there were a
couple tricks.
So the first one I learned isteaching people how to solve
their own problems.
Start coming to me with yourideas on what the solution could
(35:59):
be, because it's really tiringcoming up with the answers all
day, every day, and I don'tnecessarily have the answers all
the time.
I'm going to think it through,I might consult with somebody,
but there's also more than oneway to skin a cat, so to speak.
So what I started to do and Ihad a manager that did this to
me so this is where I learned itCome to me with a possible
(36:20):
solution for your problem andultimately, I'm going to bless
it or ask some questions, ormaybe redirect you and, over
time, guess what you might beable to solve your own problems
and not even need me.
You can put a think on their own, which I really loved and that
worked really well for me withmy staff, and it only takes a
(36:42):
few times of you asking themwhat do you think you should do
or how do you think you shouldsolve, which is so annoying when
you're on the other side ofthat, but they learn.
Speaker 2 (36:51):
It's like this is why I came to you.
I don't want to have to thinkof it Exactly.
Speaker 1 (36:55):
With your managers, though, so who I'm accountable
to.
You know you feel like it'sreally hard to tell your boss
that you have a boundary.
We spoke early on about ourwork hours, especially when I
interviewed for the job.
You know I don't start at 630.
I like to say I started eight,and if I'm online at seven,
that's Robyn's hour.
I found when I got overwhelmedwith work or I had too many
(37:19):
competing priorities.
I would just ask for what areher top three things she needs
to get done?
Or I would say, as she gave methings is this the today thing
or is it this week?
Like, let me figure out what Ineed to do today based on the
things that are so important toyou.
So if you can help settimelines for me, then I know
(37:43):
how to make the most out of myday.
Speaker 2 (37:45):
Yeah, those are great questions for somebody to ask.
Speaker 1 (37:49):
And you know that was pretty easy for me, because
that's not threatening as anemployee to ask a boss yes, I
can get on this.
I have these four things.
Does this need to come to thetop?
I'll stop what I'm doing, or isthis something potentially that
can wait?
I always asked for timelineswhen I was really busy.
If I had the time toaccommodate it, no problem.
Yeah, clarity.
Speaker 2 (38:11):
Clarity is the number one thing in communication and
that's where it can go so wrong.
Just in that scenario, you knowyou have a manager and the
employee in the office andthey're discussing the 150
things, you know, that have toget done.
And if you're the type ofmanager where you're like, oh
well, as long as you just get itdone at some time, you know,
(38:35):
and that's not really helpful ifyou're not sharing exactly when
it is.
I mean, if it's true that youknow what the deadline is two
weeks from today.
So rather than saying, oh well,you know, if you get around to
it in the next couple of weeks,well, that's not really going to
(38:56):
be very helpful for me.
But if I know, oh, the deadlineis absolutely 100%, two weeks
from today, now I can organizemy calendar around that so I can
fit it into the other 150things to be done.
Speaker 1 (39:11):
Yeah, yeah, I know a lot of people who are like that.
Speaker 2 (39:13):
They're just kind of like oh you know, in a couple of
days it's like well.
Speaker 1 (39:19):
It's even challenging when you work in an environment
where everything is what my momalways referred to as like
instant gratification.
Everything's like right now,yeah, yeah.
Only there's only one thingthat can come first.
Something has to be second.
So I think that's important andwith people you know, when they
start infringing potentially onyour time or your boundary, I
(39:39):
would always just say you knowwhat, I'm not able to
accommodate that today.
But you'll be the first phonecall I make tomorrow, that's
right, or it'll be the firstthing I do in the morning.
And I felt like as a manager, Itried to give good deadlines to
my team too.
When I would ask for their help, I'd be like this is not a
today thing, put it on your list.
We also kept project plans.
(40:00):
So everybody every week kept arunning list of all the things
they were working on and wedropped it in a shared book so
we could all see progress.
So we didn't have to spend oneon one time going through an
Excel spreadsheet of all yourprojects.
They just sent it to me everyweek.
Yeah, things like that.
I could just monitor and theninquire as needed.
So that was a really helpfultool.
Speaker 2 (40:21):
Use the technology that's available to us.
It's so incredibly helpful.
We use Google Sheets and GoogleDocs a lot where we can all
just kind of log in and look atit at the same time and go back
and forth.
It saves on so much time beingable to use the comment feature.
There are things in place thatcan help that communication go a
(40:45):
little more smoothly, but yeah,the clarity of it is so
incredibly important.
Just this morning I useEisenhower's Matrix.
Have you ever heard of that?
Speaker 1 (40:56):
No, I haven't.
Speaker 2 (40:57):
So you write that down.
It does come from DwightEisenhower.
He used to use four quadrants,okay, and you know, in Quadrant
One he would look at it is thisurgent or not urgent?
And then in the other axis hewould look at is this important
or not important?
So in Quadrant One, if it'surgent and it's important, this
(41:22):
is going to go in the quadrantthat's labeled as do.
So these are the things I needto do now and then, if it's
urgent but it's not necessarilyimportant, these are the things
that I'm going to delay just alittle bit, like maybe I need to
put them on my calendar so thatI can get to them after I'm
done with the do.
And then, if it's important butit's not urgent, these are the
(41:46):
things that I can delegate.
You know, let me find somebodywho's really good at this.
I'm going to delegate to thisto them.
And if it's not important andit's not urgent, it's not
something that's going to helpyou move forward, and whatever
it is you need to do, thendelete it, get rid of it, don't
even look at it anymore, justkind of throw that in the trash.
And I will tell you that reallyhelps because I will have my
(42:10):
to-do list, like a lot of people, but when that to-do list gets
to be a certain number of things, that I start feeling, the
anxiety you know building up inmy chest like, oh, look at all
the things, how am I going tohandle this?
And then I just I get out myquadrants and I start putting
(42:32):
them in the appropriate quadrant, and then I can just sit back
and go, okay, all right, theseare the three things that I'm
going to do today.
This is all I'm going to worryabout in this moment, and it's
so incredibly helpful to be ableto organize that, and then it
helps me with everybody else.
I love that.
I had.
Speaker 1 (42:51):
I worked with a coach , so I had my own coach and he
shared in sort of a differentformat about the two concepts of
urgency and importance, and soI wondered where he got it.
Now I know, yeah, that's right.
Speaker 2 (43:06):
Thank you, dwight Eisenhower.
Speaker 1 (43:09):
Appreciate your brains.
I love the idea of trying totrue what you can really
delegate.
I think that's somethingleaders really struggle with in
one of two ways.
Either they love to delegateeverything or they want to hold
on to everything because theyfeel like they can do it better
than the rest of their team, orthey don't have time to teach
(43:31):
and show.
And my theory was always it'sjust the initial extra time you
just you put it in up front toteach.
It will pay itself back individends.
You just have to spend thattime up front.
Speaker 2 (43:45):
Okay.
So that's what you, that's whatyou're doing to try to
encourage them, because it canbecome a bottleneck If, if
you're the one who has to haveyour hands on everything,
there's going to come a timewhere just things are not going
to get done because it's stillwaiting on you to give the okay
on that.
So you recommend that theyspend a lot of time just
(44:08):
teaching others how to take careof this and exactly how it
should be taken care of, thethings that they want, the
expectations, and just babysteps.
Speaker 1 (44:18):
Absolutely, and I think you know it depends on the
skill.
So I'll use my last job as aquick example.
I was doing performancemanagement, so we were building
scorecards, and then I was incharge of building comp plans,
but we sent out tons of data toleaders across the company.
I was doing it for everybodyuntil I brought a team in and
taught them how I built things,where to pull it.
(44:40):
But we built, you know, checksand balances.
Initially it was they would doit and they would send it to me
to check so we could getaccustomed to it, because when
you send something as importantas data, you make any mistakes.
People start to question yourdata now, so you have to be
really, really careful incompliance and check your
quality, and so it was.
(45:01):
You know you give small pieces,you let them get to work on it
and over time you built thattrust and you teach the skills
and then you can teach more.
I got copied on all of theirwork so I could still look at it
.
But work is a little differentthan communication too, and it
depends on the audience.
So to me, everything is justteaching in small steps.
(45:23):
Let's say you want them tocommunicate to the entire senior
leadership team.
But the employee on your teamit's still, you know, lower in
rank, if you will.
They're not comfortable,they're not always thinking
about dialogue, they're notthinking about how it comes off
and punctuation, I mean, justlike the things that we take for
granted.
Not everybody's writtencommunication, it's stiller, and
(45:48):
sometimes that requires doublechecking and making sure how
they're communicating in thelanguage is acceptable.
I mean, when I think back to myvery first job and I'm going to
date myself we did memos oh,the memos, and I would type them
and my manager would have toapprove it and red ink would
(46:11):
come back with margins, words,whatever.
That's how I learned how towrite professionally in a way
that would be received well.
So same things.
But when you take on more andmore as a leader, your bandwidth
is finite.
So your options are right.
You can hire people, you candelegate, or you bury yourself.
(46:35):
So you got to find a way, and sothat's where learning how to be
a good hiring manager is reallyimportant too, but that's where
, yes, building your team tosupport you so you can
successfully delegate in thelong run is incredible.
That's building skill, rightyeah.
Speaker 2 (46:50):
Yeah.
So if you are a leader and youare thinking about, okay, I need
to build this team, I need tobring together a group of people
who are going to help meachieve this goal, when they are
interviewing, you know, fordifferent positions, have you
(47:10):
talked to them about how do youactually interview in a way that
you can kind of pinpoint thethings that you're looking for?
You know, if I'm wanting tofill a certain position, are
there certain things I mightwant to look for?
You know, during that interview, do you ever coach them on how
(47:30):
they're interviewing people, sothat they can become better at
discerning who might be the youknow the right person for the
job, versus just ah, well, let'sjust pick one?
Speaker 1 (47:41):
Absolutely Small business owners.
This is something they strugglewith People that have worked
for others, that are juststarting on their own Right.
They're not used to all thethings required to have a
successful team, even if it'sjust a couple of people.
So a word we talked aboutearlier preparation have
interview questions that Icreate for every role that are
(48:03):
designed to dig into what theymight know, because what's
important to performing well inthat role the phrase behavioral
interviewing is always whatcomes to mind.
So you do not want to askquestions that can allow your
candidate to just answer yes orno, Right, Because while we wish
everybody was truthful all thetime, when you want a job you
(48:25):
might say you have skills.
You don't.
You might say you haveexperience and things you don't.
So I write all of my questionswhere they are open-ended and
they have to come up withexamples, and you know you love
the phrase.
Tell me about a time.
It's situations that they candescribe with detail, so you get
a sense for do they have theskill?
(48:47):
Tell me about a time you hadconflict in the workplace with
one of your peers.
What was it about?
What were your first steps?
How long did you let it go on.
Before you decided to take youknow, did you go to your manager
?
Did you all the questions youcan ask about things that are
important to that role I loveone of my favorite questions is
(49:08):
asking people.
If I were to call their managertoday, which always kind of puts
them back what would they tellme are your best attributes or
what have you improved in themost?
And what are they going to tellme you're still working on?
Yeah, and that working on oryour weakness always seems to
(49:28):
trip people up.
They're always so scared totell the truth.
Right, I actually really wantto know the bat, not the bad
thing that you turn into a goodthing.
Yeah, that's how people, Ithink are coached.
I'm a little different.
I really want to know what doyou think is your weakness?
Speaker 2 (49:47):
Yeah, yeah, I love how you phrase that, though If I
were to call your manager, whatwould they tell me about your,
how well you did, or what aresome of the things that you're
working on?
Just, I think just phrasingthat in that way gets you to
think about it in a differentway.
(50:07):
I do think a lot of people doget stumped when you ask them
that question about strengthsand weaknesses, because if you
give them a framework, how doesmy manager look at me?
Or how would a former managerlook at me?
In this aspect, I think thatthat's actually a really great
(50:31):
way to ask that question,because it does force them from
the outside in yeah, what weresome of the things?
What was my performance like?
Speaker 1 (50:41):
Well, it's the growth mindset too.
I mean, when you are hiring forroles, we get really
pigeonholed into the have tohave this certain experience to
be really good in this role.
I have done that too.
Admittedly, that's one of myflaws.
I was looking for certainthings in my earlier years of
trying to hire Right.
I had leaders who put me intojobs that I wasn't sure I was
(51:04):
ready for and they were like weknow you can do this.
Yeah, I was really inspiredbased on just their confidence
in me, and so I've tried to paythat forward too.
You find someone that maybedoesn't have everything you're
looking for but has some ofthese core skills and you can
see hunger and you can seediscipline and you can teach a
(51:25):
lot of things, yeah.
But you can't teach motivationand you can't teach drive.
And so people that have a coreset of skills, even if it's not
how to use this computer programor maybe their communication
needs a little tweak.
There are things you can alwaysteach, but ability and attitude
(51:46):
, we know that's right.
Speaker 2 (51:48):
And to be a model that you had mentioned former
leaders who have been soinfluential in how you move
about this world.
I remember when I worked forFairfax County Public Schools
many, many years ago.
I was a communicationspecialist there and my boss
(52:08):
there to this day I still thinkshe is one of she should write a
leadership book.
She did end up becomingsuperintendent of the school
system, but I had interviewedfor the position that frankly, I
didn't think I was qualifiedfor.
But I applied for it anyway andI had to come in and I had to
(52:30):
do this presentation and it wasdown to me and this other woman
who already worked there and shehad already had her PhD like
she had a huge leg up on what Ihad to offer.
But they liked how I did thepresentation.
And later on, when I went intoher office and she made you know
the offer and then she told mehow you know how much the
(52:54):
position was going to pay, and Iwas like okay, and I think she
could tell that I was still soyoung in this.
She took that moment and shesaid you know, this is a pay
range and you can ask for moreIf, if, if, you think you
deserve more.
And I was like that never wouldhave occurred to me in a
(53:15):
million years.
And I was like, really.
And so what a lesson to learn,though, for someone you know,
coming into an industry and notvery familiar with it, you know
how things operate that was sucha pivotal moment for me in
(53:37):
recognizing, wow, this issomething like she really was
looking out for me, and so tothis day I have so much
admiration for her because everysingle time you know I would
come into the office, she just Ihad something new to learn from
her.
So it's, you know, don'tunderestimate the power of those
(53:58):
, those conversations that youcould have and just just be
giving you know of the knowledgethat you have.
Speaker 1 (54:07):
Well, it's interesting you say that because
, as you're talking, I'mthinking of this parallel theme
that many people and I won'tspecify which gender here, but
are not comfortable in the artof negotiating.
Speaker 2 (54:22):
Yeah, yeah, it's your self-worth.
Speaker 1 (54:23):
It's your own discomfort, and HR
representatives have reportedhow many people just accept the
salary and the package that'soffered.
I've coached people on you knowcareer counseling and how to
manage the interview process forthat reason, and you know
what's the worst thing they say.
Speaker 2 (54:41):
No, yeah, and if they say no, okay it's no, but if
you don't make the ask, it'sdefinitely going to be no.
Speaker 1 (54:51):
It's a funny phenomenon and I think it's
something I struggled with as ayounger leader too.
It's always imposter syndrome.
It's knowing your value andyour worth and, you know, being
willing to stand up for yourselfand what you believe in and ask
for those things.
Yeah, yeah.
Speaker 2 (55:08):
I think another lesson there that I learned from
her is don't assume that thepeople who are working for you
know.
Just don't assume that theyknow.
Whatever it is that you knowyou're thinking about and just
you know.
Like the pay range is just oneexample, there are just so many
things that we work on in anygiven day.
(55:30):
If you just assume that theyknow, I think you're inviting
you know trouble and then youknow and I think that builds
trust as well If you just takethat moment to let them know
that you want them to know theseanswers, because it's really
going to help them downrange,right.
Speaker 1 (55:50):
Well, I'm making them feel comfortable because things
you do every day that are sosecond nature to you.
I mean, my house has been in asmall business owner.
We talk about this all the timewhen you create material or you
do things for the public andyou think they know the inner
workings, the lingo, the juPeople that you need to write
things.
You know we always joke likefor a second grader, but you
(56:12):
need to write things and presentthings in a way that people can
understand that know nothingabout your business.
And that's a really interestingpoint.
When you start talking incertain circles, you have to
make people feel comfortable toask questions and to what I call
accept the table, like here'sthe context of what we're going
to talk about.
If anyone doesn't understandwhat, like, let's just cover it
(56:34):
now.
And people are always hesitant,right?
They don't want to ask thequestion that might make them
look like they don't know whatthey're talking about.
How many times have you sat ina room with senior leaders who
would say can you back that up?
I really don't get what thatlike the senior leaders can do.
It all the time I've seen this,but it's the ones you know that
are on the front lines and theentry level positions that are
(56:55):
like no, I can't raise my hand,yeah, yeah.
Speaker 2 (56:57):
I can't ask that question.
Speaker 1 (57:01):
But the senior leaders have no problem.
I don't really understand whatthat means.
That doesn't make any sense tome.
Speaker 2 (57:06):
Yeah, yeah.
So if you're a leader out there, make sure that you are setting
up the communication climate inyour office in such a way that
your employees feel comfortableand confident that they can ask
the questions.
It's just going to benefiteverybody.
Speaker 1 (57:23):
Well, the other thing I heard that I really liked
Marshall Goldsmith tells somestories and some of his coaching
online about when you'resoliciting feedback from your
team and you're trying to pursuemore collaboration to make that
environment safe.
You thank people for theirideas.
Back of your mind, you maythink I'm never going to use
this or this probably wouldn'twork, but you never say that
(57:46):
publicly.
Yeah, it's always.
Thank you for that suggestion.
We're going to take that intoconsideration.
Or thank you for sharing youropinion.
That's a great thought, likejust always making people feel
welcome to talk because younever know what that might
solicit in a domino effect fromsomebody else who might have a
game changing idea.
Speaker 2 (58:05):
Yeah, yeah.
And if you shut them downimmediately or embarrass them in
front of the group, you know,if it's done publicly like that,
then what you're going to do isthe next time you have a
conversation, the next time youhave this brainstorming session
and you're asking everyone fortheir input, they're not going
to give it Hope.
It'll be cringes, yeah, andthey could have the best idea
(58:28):
ever the next billion dollaridea could be stuck in their
head.
But they're like, nope, I'mgoing to keep my mouth shut,
because last time, you know, Ididn't like how I was treated.
I was embarrassed or you knowwhatever.
So it really doesn't do anybodyany good To do that in public.
I think that's a great piece ofadvice right there.
Speaker 1 (58:50):
It's.
You know it's always easier topoke holes in people's things.
It is harder to be a generator.
You know, when you create apresentation or you make a
suggestion, everybody's got anopinion when they look at your
things or they hear what you'resuggesting.
It does take a little morecourage to be the generator of
the documents, the ideas, yeah,but I think it's always a good
(59:11):
place to start too, because weneed people that can do that and
then others can weigh in, and Ihave worked in groups where you
get people that they ask totake the exact opposite opinion,
tell us all the things thatcould go wrong, just to help
think through an entire Solution, which I think is really
fascinating, especially if it'sthe person that had the idea and
(59:34):
it's a big one.
Okay, you know, you're the onethat has to poke holes in it and
this group gets to decide whyit's going to be good.
So you have to sort of Attemptto defend your own idea by
thinking about the completeother side.
Speaker 2 (59:45):
Yeah, I think it's great, because you're not really
aware of your own blind spotsUntil you're forced to pay
attention to differentperspectives.
I think that's a great exerciseto have for for any department,
any organization.
You know, we like to sit downand have those skull sessions
where it's like, okay, we'regonna rewrite the mission
(01:00:06):
statement.
You know, we're gonna rewriteour value statements and I want
everybody to have input, youknow.
Or, if there's something, someproblem that has to be resolved,
to be able to sit down in thegroup and Hear from all of those
different perspectives.
But if you are forced to reallyhave to think about let's you
know what could go wrong in thislet's sit on this for just a
(01:00:29):
moment, let this marinade for alittle bit, you know, and try to
come up with some, somedifferent ways that you think
that maybe this isn't the bestthing that we could do at this
moment.
Speaker 1 (01:00:40):
I think one of my other favorite things in
corporate when I do coaching iswe have a tendency to Want to
put band-aids on things.
Yeah, not try to solve thelong-term solution and the
band-aids aren't always the bestMm-hmm and to think long term.
(01:01:01):
Maybe it will cost a littlemore, maybe there's technology
involved, maybe it's people likewho knows what the elements
might be.
But sometimes band-aidsolutions just create other
problems and I think it's reallyimportant to try to do that
whole champion, challenger,pro-con like think through, yeah
(01:01:21):
, what the real solutions shouldbe.
Speaker 2 (01:01:24):
Yeah, in public speaking we call that mental
dialogue.
So if you could have a mentaldialogue, if, if you're gonna
create an argument for something, try to anticipate well, what
is the audience thinking aboutthat?
If you have people in theaudience who are not gonna agree
with this, what is thatdisagreement?
What are they gonna be thinkingin that moment in time?
(01:01:45):
And so that way you can craftyour message in a way that you
can address that concern.
You know, right then and therein your Presentation.
So I like the idea of if youhave a group sitting down, yeah,
play, play the back and forthyou know, have you do it, and I
think it's a great exercisebecause it does force you to
(01:02:07):
have those differentperspectives which is so
important.
Speaker 1 (01:02:11):
We can't get stuck in a group thing, you know,
especially when we talked abouthiring people, people with
different experiences, differentperspectives.
It's a balancing act, becausethat's important, and then the
dynamic of the personality in ateam.
Yeah, so it's a combination oftrying to look at the persona
and the experience, because Iknow when I'm a leader, if I'm
(01:02:33):
not good at something and it'smy weakness, I would like to
hire somebody that is reallystrong there.
That makes my team better.
Yeah, you know, you don't wantto be threatened by your team.
You want to celebrate theirsuccess.
You want, you know, the bestthing they can do is,
potentially, you work for themand you've built such a great
(01:02:53):
relationship.
It doesn't matter anyway.
That's right.
Yeah, the best compliment isyou take off for a week or two
or you potentially leave aposition because you relocate
which I did and that team runssmoothly without you.
Yeah, that's me is the bestcompliment.
I don't want to fall apart whenI'm not there.
I wanted you thrive.
Speaker 2 (01:03:13):
Yeah, because you did your job and making sure that
everybody is is able to performthe way they need to perform.
Speaker 1 (01:03:21):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (01:03:22):
Yeah, that's great.
Well, robert, we've alreadytalked of over an hour now.
I think we did a good job,though we did a very good job at
pretty much focusing oncommunication in the workplace
and in leadership and inManagers.
I'm pretty proud of us forstaying focused in that area.
(01:03:43):
We could very easily go in ahundred different directions
when when we're talking aboutcommunication.
Yeah, yeah, so the hour went byway too fast.
There are so many other thingsthat we can talk about, so I
will have you back on the showso we can dive into some of
those other topics, because Ireally want to hear what you
(01:04:06):
have to say About those.
But before we wrap it up, isthere anything that you would
like to say to the audience?
You know any parting words ofwisdom, if you will.
Speaker 1 (01:04:19):
Yes, actually I have a good one.
It's one you and I talked aboutand I think it's something that
resonated with you in mychapter as a matter of fact.
So we have this saying in myhousehold over here, and it can
be applied to Anything, whetherit's personal, professional
relationships.
You make time for the thingsyou value.
(01:04:39):
That's right and so it's.
You know I'm too busy, I can'tcall this person, I can't spend
time with this person, I can'thelp this person.
Anything you value you willmake time for, and that even
goes with Deprioritize yourhealth and wellness.
Is it your relationships?
Is it walking, your whatever itis in life?
That phrase has served me sowell as my true north to keep me
(01:05:05):
on track, for what are thethings I value first of all?
How do I make sure I have timein almost every day to act upon
those things?
Speaker 2 (01:05:16):
Yeah, I cannot tell you how many times I had that
phrase stuck in my head,especially over the past several
months.
So that's where we'll pick upthe next time I have you on on
the show because, yeah, thatphrase right there, it really
did help with some of thepersonal things you know.
Yes, we're going on, so I thankyou for sharing that.
(01:05:39):
Yeah, and I know somebody elseis listening to this and I think
it'll be an incredible help tothem as well.
Speaker 1 (01:05:46):
Good, I hope so.
Speaker 2 (01:05:48):
All right, well then, that is it for today.
Oh, before we, my dog isscratching on the doors, so
we're hearing.
If you're hearing any scratcheson the door, so why don't you
share with the listeners howthey can get in touch with you?
Speaker 1 (01:06:04):
Oh sure, so you can contact me directly on my
website, which is my name, www.
Robin, which is robin.
I'm also on LinkedIn, so that'salso my name.
I'm also on Instagram, robin MLcoach, so you can find me lots
of different places and you candrop me a note or an email
through my website If you feellike we might be a fit for
(01:06:27):
coaching or interested in myservices.
It's all out there and you canconnect with me that way.
Speaker 2 (01:06:31):
Outstanding, I'll make sure all that information
is available in the show notes.
All right, thanks again, robin,for being a guest on my show.
This has been such a greatconversation for me and I'll be
sure to have you back again.
Great, I look forward to it.
All right, thanks everybody.
Have a great rest of your day.
Bye.
(01:06:53):
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