December 1, 2023 • 51 mins
Ever wondered what the secret to a "Gooder" life might be? I did! So I had a conversation with veteran and author, Kendall Layman, who has penned the book "The Gooder Life," illuminating the path to a more fulfilling existence. Kendall shares his journey and candidly discusses the healing power of writing, the often overlooked art of organizing thoughts, and the potential of this to improve mental health.
This conversation is set to not just inspire but also offer practical strategies for improved communication, relationships, and personal growth. So, gear up for this captivating journey towards living a more fulfilling, "gooder" life.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 2 (00:07):
Welcome to the Communication 24-7 podcast,
where we communicate about howwe communicate.
I'm your host, jennifer Furlong, so Kendall.
Speaker 1 (00:29):
Yes.
Speaker 2 (00:30):
Welcome to the show.
Speaker 1 (00:31):
Thank you.
Thank you for having me Lookingforward to the conversation.
Speaker 2 (00:35):
Absolutely.
I am so happy to have you onthe show.
I think we're going to have afantastic conversation.
So first of all, thank you foryour service, thank, you.
I love highlighting veterans onmy show.
As a fellow veteran, it's anice opportunity to be able to
show the world, share with theworld that yes, there are things
(00:56):
we are accomplishing out here,and so I appreciate the
opportunity to be able to dothat.
I think you're really going toenjoy today's conversation.
Number one the reason myinterest was piqued and having
Kendall on the show is the titleof his book, the Gooder Life,
in layman's terms, and I waslike that's a pretty awesome
(01:19):
title.
So consider my interest piqued.
I want to talk to this guy andkind of pick his brain and see
what this is all about.
And, of course, communicationand listening skills are at the
heart of having a good or liferight.
It's definitely building blockof that.
Why don't you tell us a littlebit about your background and
(01:40):
how did you get to this point?
How did you get to the point ofwriting the book the Gooder
Life?
Speaker 1 (01:46):
Yeah, I grew up in a small town in Northwest Arkansas
had an idea that I wanted to.
As a kid I tore electronicsapart.
I love to tear things apartJust figured I would do that in
my career.
I had no idea there were nocareers of tearing electronics
apart, but I just thought Iwanted to do that.
I'm colorblind, though, andthat pretty much sealed the deal
(02:07):
on any kind of electronicsthat's all color coded.
So I ended up going into theUnited States Air Force and was
a computer operator and went toschool at night, became a
computer programmer, and that'sreally what started my IT career
, which I've been in for almost40 years now.
But as I got out of the AirForce actually while I was in
(02:28):
the Air Force and after gettingout of the Air Force and
starting my career, I was one ofthose guys that would I like to
observe people.
I would look at people who weremy mentors, people who were my
supervisors, my bosses, myfriends, and I just kind of
recorded mentally, and in ajournal also, things that would
(02:51):
draw me to them.
You know, I was the guy whowould sit in an office and say,
man, if I ever get to be aleader, I want to do things like
this person or I don't want todo things like this person, and
so I just began to kind ofcollect these items that seem to
set people apart and make themdifferent.
(03:11):
At some point a few years ago,I finally had a head full of
information that I just had toget out, just simply for my
sanity.
So I said I'm going to write abook.
Not knowing anything about theprocess, was able to be
introduced to a lady in tech.
She led me and gave me greatguidance, was able to get a book
(03:36):
out.
It was one of the hardestthings I've ever done.
You think you've got all ofthis and you just start to write
it and all of a sudden it'slike that's it.
That's all there is.
I only wrote one paragraph,right.
So you've really got to dig inthere and really think about all
of the stuff you've learnedover those years and put some
substance around them.
(03:57):
I tell a lot of people I knowthat I'm a new writer and
writing, just like any otherskill, has to be developed, and
I think you develop that byreading, by talking on podcasts
like this, by learning differentthings, and today, if I were to
write the book again, it wouldprobably look different.
It would be the same content,but I would have developed it
differently or something.
(04:18):
But what I do tell people isthat the content of the book is
not anything new.
It's very simple steps toliving a different type of life,
but it's real and it's solid.
Whether I present it to youthat way or not, it is real and
solid.
And if you follow the steps Isay in the book, if you
incorporate those things intoyour life, I truly believe it'll
(04:41):
set your life apart and you'llbe a different person because of
it.
And so that's where I got today.
Speaker 2 (04:48):
That's awesome.
There's something you said Iwanted to just kind of dive into
a little bit.
You talked about how, goingthrough this process of writing
this book and picking thingsapart and learning how to
express yourself in thestorytelling, you're having to
learn this skill, that you'redeveloping this newfound skill,
(05:09):
and you said it was verytherapeutic.
I think that's something reallyimportant to underscore as a
part of something you stand togain in written communication.
I don't think enough peoplereally give it the opportunity
to just sit down and get yourthoughts down on paper, get your
feelings down on paper.
(05:29):
Like you said, it does kind ofhelp with the sanity bit.
I've experienced the same thing.
Can you say a little bit moreabout that, about the process
itself, and what was it aboutthis process that helped you
feel like you were gaining, justmaybe, a stronger footing?
Speaker 1 (05:48):
You know, I've always been a journaler.
Maybe it's just writing downthe things I do at work each day
, you know, just keeping trackof what I do, so I won't forget
those.
But I've always been a personthat when something comes into
my head I'll just grab anotebook and just write about it
.
Maybe it's a paragraph, maybeit's a page, but, like you said,
it helps me to get that out,number one, and then to be able
(06:09):
to reread back through that andconfirm what I was thinking and
maybe even while I'm writing Icome up with a different thought
.
You know, I think that's kindof what we are as human beings
we need to get things out.
You've always seen people whoand we've said about them they
bottle things up inside of them.
(06:31):
At some point you're going toexplode and you've got to get
that stuff out.
For me it is therapeutic to getthat out and to be able to
write about it.
I talk about one of the thingsin the book essential attitudes.
I call them three essentialattitudes and it's kind of the
foundation, but one of those isbeing thankful.
Being thankful for me is it's aperspective exercise.
(06:53):
Each morning I try to take sometime to think about things I'm
thankful for.
But to go back to your question, there was one time in my life
a few years ago where I was justkind of down and I'm not really
a down person.
I began to get up each day andI would write down three or four
or five things in a journalthat I was thankful for, and it
(07:15):
began to make a difference in mylife and I thought why is that
making a difference?
And what I realized was whenwe're kind of in a down state or
things are kind of catastrophicaround us or they're just
swirling and it's pulling ourattention in all different
directions, we're very focusedon ourselves and what I learned
(07:36):
was when I would stop, be quiet,write down things I was
thankful for, for that briefmoment my eyes would turn away
from myself and out to thethings I was thankful for.
What I learned was that thethings around me that didn't
necessarily change, but my viewof those things around me, begin
to change and I begin toapproach those things
(07:59):
differently, simply because ofhaving a thankful attitude and
writing down what I was thankfulfor.
And so I'm very much a believerin that writing process and and
to get all of this book out onpaper.
It was a great accomplishmentfor me because it was like I did
it.
But but much more than that wasjust getting it out, and If I
(08:23):
can help someone who maybe readsthe book, if I can help them
learn one thing, then it wasworth writing the book.
And that was something mypublisher really, really talked
to me about was Kindle.
If you could affect one personin this world by writing this
book, would you write it?
Well, I think, of course, wewould all say yes, and I said
yes, and so that's really beenmy goal through the whole
(08:46):
writing process was can I sharesomething?
I want to share a quote withyou.
I read this this last week, sothis is brand new.
This is on your podcast.
Only Nobody else has heard, butI'm gonna read it right now.
Your journey is not the same asmine and my journey is not
yours, but if we meet on acertain path, may we encourage
(09:10):
each other.
And so that was kind of my myprocess in this.
I've had a, I've got a story inmy life and I wanted to share
that story.
But my story is not your storyand your story is not mine.
But there may be somesimilarities of things that
we've gone through where, whenwe do meet, I can't tell you how
to handle your problems orhappiness and you can't tell me.
(09:32):
But we can share those Thingsthat we've gone through and
maybe encourage each other.
And that was my purpose inwriting this book, and just
getting it out on paper washopefully to encourage other
people.
Speaker 2 (09:43):
Oh, I love that because there is not one of us
who has not Experienced sometype of hardship.
Sure, you know, so many havegone through whatever type of
trauma, you know, and, and itcan be very difficult.
Just, life is not easy.
There's always somethingWaiting right around the corner,
(10:06):
you know, just when you thinkyou have things handled, it's
just gonna completely, justknock you down.
And so to be able to havesomething to go to, to look
forward to, you know, a sense ofsupport or a sense of hope, you
know something to look forwardto the future, that's so
(10:29):
incredibly important.
And you know I'm so happy thatyou got this book out, because,
for you, what a fantasticprocess to be able to go through
.
You know I understand exactlyhow you feel when it's like, oh,
look at that, okay, let me sitback and kind of pat myself on
the back for a little bit.
(10:49):
But then you're like, okay, now, what can I do with this?
The book is written right.
You know, now how do I get thisout to where people can
actually read it, so I canimpact others, you know, so they
can benefit from this?
absolutely take me through someof the major Ideas.
What are some of the buildingblocks that you have within this
(11:12):
book that we could take away?
You know that.
You know earlier I hadmentioned we like to talk about
communication skills, and we'vealready touched on one of those
how written Communication canabsolutely be therapeutic.
But take me through some of theother things that you may have
touched on in connection tocommunication skills in your
book.
Speaker 1 (11:32):
So, so let me tell you real quickly these Essential
attitudes and principles Italked about, and then we'll
highlight one of those becauseof your podcast.
So my essential attitudes arejust being thankful, being
humble and being respectful,mm-hmm, and those three items,
which I call the foundation, aregoing to tie into the one item
(11:54):
that it's a principle thatreally talks to your podcast.
My building blocks are having apurpose being a listener, being
a thinker, just being aware,emotional intelligence, being
aware of your surroundings,being aware of other things
around you, making good choicesand then being a finisher of
things that you start.
(12:14):
So so let's talk about thelistening part, which is one of
the six building blockprinciples I talked about in the
book.
I read something one time Ithink it was called the lost art
of listening, was the book thatI read, and essentially, the
main, main theme of this book isthat when you are listening,
(12:35):
it's not about you, it's aboutthe other person.
That's right.
I remember one day, a Person Iworked with was going through
kind of a hard time here at workand and I've been what on the
leadership team for a while andand have been a mentor to many
people in our company and andthey called me and I realized at
(12:57):
the beginning of thisconversation that they just
needed to get stuff out.
It was emotional, it was a.
It was a time just to to be mad, to be angry, to be upset, and
I caught myself at one point inthat conversation of saying, yes
, I remember one time when I andI stopped and I thought you
(13:20):
know what?
Yes, I do have a story thatwould Maybe give them some
insight into what they're goingthrough.
But right now, this is notabout me telling a story.
This is about me listening tothem and just allowing them to
get this out, and that was agreat lesson for me.
Speaker 2 (13:41):
Even and I had already written about this- yeah
, was that before or after youhad read that?
The book about?
Speaker 1 (13:47):
it after it was, after I'd read the book, and it
made me Think about that.
You know, a great, a greattestament to what we learn when
we read books.
I don't I don't remember awhole lot about that book, but I
do remember that and that was,that was a central theme that
helped me with this person andit's helped me many times after
(14:08):
that too.
You know, you mentioned aboutgoing through times in our lives
and that's one of the things inthe book I talk about, about
life-changing moments, thosethings we go through that make
us go to bed at night and seethe world differently than we
did that morning, becausesomething has truly changed us.
That could be good, that couldbe bad, but when we do that we
learn things of how we talkedearlier about maybe giving
(14:32):
people advice and what.
What I learned through mylife-changing moment is that I
don't have all of the answers,and what I learned going through
my time of life-changing Wasthat I really enjoyed when
people just came and sat with meand just allowed me to maybe be
, be quiet, maybe to talk.
We live in a world where wetalk about awkward silence.
(14:55):
I Kind of like awkward silencemyself, because sometimes I love
silence.
Well, if you were going througha hard time, jen and and I was
one of your close friends and Icame to you.
Maybe you need me just to sitthere with you.
That's right, and let's bequiet.
You know that's reallylistening.
(15:17):
Yeah there's just no verballistening going on, but we're
both just kind of listening.
We're listening by.
I'm watching your actions, I'mwatching your movements, maybe
I'm watching you cry, maybe I'mwatching you laugh, I, but I'm
observing and I'm recording thatand in a sense that's kind of
(15:37):
listening, and so that's what Italk about in the book.
That's why it's so important ishow many times have we seen
these people in our lives whereyou're talking to them and
they're looking at you and thenwhen you finish talking, they
say now, what about so-and-so?
And you think I just told youthat right, yeah, right.
(15:58):
And I've had that happen somany times and you think what's
the point of even talking?
Speaker 2 (16:02):
Those are thinking about everything else.
Speaker 1 (16:05):
And then those times where you're talking to someone
and you know they're simplywaiting for you to stop so they
can talk.
Speaker 2 (16:12):
Yeah, that's all they're doing here.
Speaker 1 (16:14):
You know, that's not the person I want to be.
I want to be the person that'swilling to listen to what you
say, contemplate what you saidand then, if there's a response
needed, give you that response.
Or maybe there's not a responseneeded, that's right.
That's the listening I talkabout in the book.
Speaker 2 (16:35):
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(17:18):
notes.
Yeah, you have touched onseveral important aspects of
listening, and one of them Iwant to dive into for the
listeners here, those of you whoare listening and paying
attention and just not passivelygetting the information.
(17:40):
You touched on a skill calledempathic listening, and my
longtime listeners have heardthis story a million times, so
guess what?
You're just going to have tohear it just one more time.
You all.
Speaker 1 (17:53):
So that is perfect.
I'm going to need to hear it.
Speaker 2 (17:56):
I am not naturally an empathic listener, it's just my
personality.
I very much am a problem solverand so my go-to instinct is,
when somebody comes to me andthey start complaining about
something or what I wouldconsider to be whining about
something, you know they'regoing through something.
(18:16):
I have had to learn over timeto keep my mouth shut, kind of
like what you were talking aboutafter reading that book.
You have to just sit there andeven though at the moment I may
not necessarily be able torelate to whatever it is they're
going through right in thatmoment, but that doesn't even
matter.
If I can't relate to it, itdoes not even matter.
(18:39):
So, learning that skill ofstaying silent, let them vent,
let them get off of their chestwhatever they need to get off of
their chest and then wait,because if they want you to help
them solve the problem, or ifthey're even interested in your
opinion about the problem, theywill ask you.
(19:01):
So don't offer it before theyask.
Yeah.
So it seems like I have reallygood empathy and those empathic
listening skills, but I've justlearned how to trick everybody.
So what skill you can learn,y'all it is.
Speaker 1 (19:21):
No, you're exactly right, and I don't have all of
the answers a lot of time whenI'm talking with people.
But they didn't ask me to haveall of the answers.
They asked me to be therebecause I'm a friend and they
trust me.
You know, that's a key thingtoo, what I just said right
there.
In order for somebody to sharewith you those deep feelings, a
lot of times they have to trustyou.
(19:42):
That's right, and that trust isbuilt through a relationship.
It takes time to build thattrust.
It takes a very short time tobreak that trust, and maybe
breaking that trust would bethat they're not listening to me
.
They don't want to hear whatI've got to say.
But trust is a big thing.
(20:03):
I told you all ago about thethree essential attitudes of
thankful, humble, respectful,and those three go into the
listening also, because I haveto be respectful enough of you
to allow you to talk and you mayactually say some things that I
don't agree with.
I wish you wouldn't say them,but that's not the point.
Right then, I respect youenough to allow you to have your
(20:23):
time.
Humbleness we have to be humbleenough to understand that we
don't have all of the answers,that I'm not here to fix all of
the problems.
I'm here just to be your friend.
You know this goes into theworkplace also.
There's lots of times where I'min meetings and you need to
just listen and learn.
(20:44):
I don't have all of the answers.
I don't know everything aboutwhat we're doing, yet I've got
good people around me who do,and I need to be humble enough
to know that, yes, I'm theleader, but I don't have to have
all of the answers in the room.
We've all heard that say youdon't have to be the smartest
person in the room.
A lot of people, unfortunately,feel like they do need to be.
(21:04):
I'm the leader, I need to bethe smartest.
No, you don't.
In fact, you'll probably winpeople over more by just being
humble enough to say that Idon't have all of the answers.
I need you to tell me what'sgoing on here.
And so all of it, all of thestuff in the book kind of ties
together and can be used as acommunication book.
Speaker 2 (21:28):
It absolutely could.
You know another thing that youhad mentioned earlier that made
me think of a concept incommunication, you know we talk
about, there's a differencebetween the content level
meaning of a communication actversus a relationship level
meaning of a communication act.
(21:49):
And so when you were talkingabout silence and just being
there, and there does not haveto be anything said but the fact
of just being there in thatmoment, you know, and this plays
into the building, the trustthat you were talking about, you
know, if we say something thator we don't say something, the
(22:09):
content level meaning is youknow exactly what it is we said.
You know, if I tell you I careabout you, you're getting that
message right.
But the relationship levelmeaning is what really comes
through in those moments.
So you don't even really haveto say I care about you, but by
sitting there and maybe holdingtheir hand or putting your hand
(22:33):
on their shoulder, or maybe youdon't even have to touch them in
that moment, you just sit therevery quietly while they cry,
while they get it out, and thatrelationship level meaning
that's coming through by doingthat action is saying I care
about you, and that willsolidify their trust in you a
(22:54):
thousand times more than youcould say I care about you 100
times.
But that one act is what reallywill get them to understand
that you truly do care aboutthem.
So I appreciate that youbrought up the example of
silence, because you're right.
I don't think enough of usreally appreciate what silence
(23:16):
can do in a relationship.
Speaker 1 (23:18):
Absolutely, and you talked about empathy earlier and
right there you talked aboutmaybe somebody crying.
The silence can make usuncomfortable.
Emotion can make usuncomfortable also, oh yeah, but
if we're there truly because wecare about that person, we'll
be OK with that.
We'll be OK to let them cry,we'll be OK to let them laugh at
(23:43):
times where we think, why areyou laughing?
We'll be OK for the silence.
I'm a firm believer that ourlives are built on relationships
.
We need human-to-humaninteraction.
We need to talk with people.
I don't feel like we can be ourbest selves if we are in a
cocoon and just don't interactwith anybody.
(24:03):
And so building thoserelationships in life are
extremely important, especiallywhen you have those times where
you need those people that youtrust around you.
You're thankful to have themand you're thankful that you had
those relationships built.
Speaker 2 (24:20):
That's right.
Building that trust is reallythe foundation you need in order
to have the more difficultconversations as well.
Because I noticed earlier youknow you had mentioned if
someone is having a hard timeand you know they're just kind
of maybe unloading on you andthey may say something you don't
agree with, they may saysomething that is maybe a little
(24:42):
harsh because in that momentthey're just so emotional and
that's what's driving whateverit is that they're talking about
.
And and that brings up a pointthat sometimes it's not the time
and place to bring up somethingthat you know you probably
should bring it up at some point, especially if they said
(25:03):
something really upsetting orthey said something that was
untrue, you know, said somethingthat maybe was cruel in the
moment, you know, because of theemotions.
But there is a time and placeand if you have been able to
create a strong foundation oftrust, then later on, when the
(25:25):
emotions have subsided and wewere thinking with our logical
brain again, then that could bea good opportunity to say hey,
you know, do you have a moment Ijust want to talk about, you
know, something that that youhad mentioned earlier and, yeah,
that that opens up thatopportunity to have that
conversation.
(25:46):
So I think you are so correctin that you know sometimes it's
not the time and place.
You have to be able to wait forthe appropriate moment to bring
up some things, especially ifthere are emotions involved.
Speaker 1 (25:59):
Absolutely In an emotional moment.
There may even be times whereyou're just that innocent
listener.
You're there to help them, butall of a sudden, some of the
direction of the anger may comeright at you.
Well, you don't understand.
You've never had to do this,you've never done this, and I
(26:22):
think that's that time where youhave to understand.
This is not personal for me,about me.
They're just struggling rightnow.
You've got to be able to takethat.
But you mentioned about sayingthings sometimes when it's not
the right place, it's not thetime, and I talk about that
exactly under awareness in mybook.
Yeah, there is a how many timeshave we been in a conversation
(26:46):
or been in a room with peopleand somebody says something and
everybody kind of cringes andyou think, oh, that is not the
right thing to say right now.
Oh, yeah, A board room,anything.
It's not the time to say that.
That's just that part ofunderstanding what's going on
around us, understanding theemotions around us, reading the
(27:11):
people around us, reading theroom around us and just being
aware to know what's right andwhat's wrong right now.
And so I talk about that,exactly that exact thing that
you mentioned.
But you're exactly right on theemotions.
Emotions are hard, yeah, theyare.
(27:31):
Sometimes you got to just letthem get out, yeah, and then we
can maybe have a little bit moreof a logical discussion after
that.
Speaker 2 (27:40):
Yeah, you're right, and you had mentioned, you know,
somebody may tell you you don'tunderstand, you've never been
through this and really theresponse is you're right, you're
right, I don't, I can'tunderstand.
I mean I've, you're right, Imay have had an experience that
might be similar but, I'm nothaving your experience.
Speaker 1 (28:04):
Exactly.
Speaker 2 (28:05):
This happens a lot in you know I'm a cancer survivor
and this is a conversation thatI've had with a lot of other
cancer survivors is like whenyou first get diagnosed and
everybody it seems likeeverybody has advice for you, or
they have you know like aremedy for you, or they tell you
(28:25):
, oh well, at least it's notthis kind of cancer, as if you
know like you got the goodcancer right.
It's so.
You know, as the person on thereceiving end, it really serves
to diminish what it is thatyou're going through, and I know
people mean well sure.
(28:46):
So this is just a good learningopportunity for anybody who's
listening to our conversation.
Is you know when somebody'scoming to you and they really
are going through it?
Speaker 1 (28:56):
Sure they are.
Speaker 2 (28:57):
You know, and it's, it's not for us to determine how
bad it is or how good it is forthem, because that oftentimes
will just make them feel worse.
You know, you think you'retrying to say something to make
it better, but in actualityyou're making it worse.
So that's why you really justhave to.
(29:18):
If they blow up, don't take itpersonally.
Just say you're right, you're.
I don't get it.
I don't understand it because Ihaven't.
I haven't been through whatyou're going through right now.
Speaker 1 (29:28):
Great point and and for your listeners also.
So when I talked earlier aboutour life changing moment, mine
was my sister passed away.
That was really the firstperson in my life that was very
close to me, who I had lost.
So so it was new for me to gothrough this experience.
I hadn't done this before, andwhat I found is that, like you
(29:51):
said, many people will come upto you and say hey, I know what
you're going through.
Right, Probably the same thinghappened to you.
Hey, I had the same thinghappen to me.
No, you didn't have the samething.
But what I had to learn was whatexactly you said.
They don't really know what tosay.
They're trying to say somethingthat will comfort you.
(30:11):
That is not a comforting thingto say.
And so what I learned throughthat and when I have been with
people who have lost a loved oneor anything since that point,
I'll do exactly what you said.
Well, I'll go up to them andsay I don't know what you're
going through, but I want you toknow I'm here and if you need
me, I can listen, I can help youdo something, I can run errands
(30:36):
for you.
You know that's what peoplewant.
And so for your listeners, ifthey do go through these types
of things with people, just besensitive to the fact that while
you have gone through somethingsimilar, you don't know their
experience, so just be there forthem.
Be there.
Speaker 2 (30:56):
And there's.
You know that goes a long way.
If you don't know what to say,it's okay to say it's fine.
I don't know what to say.
This is horrible.
I'm sorry you're going throughthis.
Speaker 1 (31:07):
Yes.
And that's all you need to say.
That's it, that's it, that's it.
They just want to know you care.
That's right.
That's all that needs to bemade known in that conversation,
as I care for you.
Speaker 2 (31:20):
I had interviewed some time ago a woman who works
in HR and her husband had passedaway from cancer, and, as an HR
director, it helped her realize, you know, we're talking about
going through differentexperiences and your eyes are
open to things that you hadnever even considered before.
(31:43):
And so, as an HR director, itmade her realize, wow, managers
really aren't equipped to knowwhat to say or you know how to
react if any of their employeesexperience a big loss, you know,
like the one that she had.
And so we had a very similarconversation and one thing that
(32:06):
she gave my listeners as a pieceof advice and I thought it was
a wonderful piece of advice.
She said you know, if somebodyis going through something
really, really difficult likethat, it's not enough to say,
hey, just let me know what youneed, sure, because at that
point they may not even knowwhat they need.
(32:27):
But the more specific you can be, just like you gave a really
good example hey, if you need meto run some errands for you, I
can do that.
You know, that's very specific.
If you need me to wash the pileof dishes right here, I will
take care of that for you, like.
So you know the more specificyou can be if you really truly
(32:49):
want to help that person out.
That takes the burden off ofthem to try to figure out how
you can help.
So again, let's not make itabout us, right.
Let's really, really payattention to something very
specific that could actually behelpful, and I thought that was
such a fantastic piece of advicefor anybody who really wants to
(33:12):
be someone of service.
Really.
Speaker 1 (33:16):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (33:16):
Yeah, If you've read my book Cracking the Rich Code,
you know it is chock full offantastic advice from top
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(33:38):
What if you were able to attendmember only live events and
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Join the Rich Code Club todayfor free by clicking on the link
(34:02):
in the show notes.
Speaker 1 (34:05):
You know, Jim, we could talk all day heading down
that path that the HR managertalked about, but it's a great
example also, and this is a bitdifferent and I'll stray here
and come back.
Speaker 2 (34:16):
But I love to stray, so that's what all these
conversations are for.
Speaker 1 (34:22):
How many times in companies and places where we've
worked are people hired forleadership positions based upon
their skills in a job, but notnecessarily based upon the
people skills, the soft skills,and so we put somebody in a
position where they're gonnafail, probably because when you
(34:44):
do begin to start getting thoseleadership positions, you're
going to deal with things inpeople's lives.
Everybody has lives outside ofthis work and those are going to
bleed over into this at somepoint, and maybe we need to
focus a little more on the softskills of the people that we put
in leadership positions.
Speaker 2 (35:05):
Well, I am a little biased because my background is
in communication, so of courseI'm gonna agree with you on that
.
I'm actually on a personalcrusade right now to even change
the language that we use.
When we talk about communicationskills, like I hear it referred
to as soft skills, and we'vebeen referring to written
(35:27):
communication, oralcommunication, listening skills
as soft skills since I mean Ican remember.
I mean it's you know, everybusiness book that you would
read will probably mention, youknow, soft skills at some point.
I think we're at a point thatit's we understand that
(35:47):
communication skills are socritical, especially for leaders
, managers, employees, personalrelationships if you want to
become engaged civically and,you know, make a difference in
your communities.
I think we're beginning torealize, finally, that these
skills, they're not necessary,they're not really soft, are
they?
Speaker 1 (36:06):
I mean they are critical skills.
Speaker 2 (36:10):
These are critical skills.
Yeah, yeah, and I agree withyou 100%, but again, I'm biased
because I'm the one that'spreaching it.
Speaker 1 (36:22):
You know, I heard a man say one time I'm gonna make
this up, let's say it's anautomotive company but he told
me he said you know, theautomotive part of the business
is 20%.
The people part of the businessis about 80%.
Speaker 2 (36:37):
Oh yeah.
Speaker 1 (36:39):
And yet we do everything focused on that 20% a
lot of times instead of that80%.
I've learned that in my careerit's the dealing with the people
that usually ends up being thehardest, but I will say it can
be the most fulfilling also, andit's the area where we end up
(36:59):
focusing most of our time, a lotof the time.
Speaker 2 (37:02):
Oh yeah, it's usually what happens in an organization
is congratulations, you areawesome at your job, we're gonna
give you a promotion.
So you move up and all of asudden, you are responsible for
all of these people.
You have all of these directreports now and you have
absolutely no idea what in thehell you're supposed to do with
(37:24):
all of these direct reports.
And unfortunately, a lot ofmanagers in that respect are set
up for failure because they arefantastic at their job but then
they're not given theopportunity to develop those
other skills that are socritical and being successful.
Speaker 1 (37:43):
Yes, and many times we put them in that position and
then we leave them.
Speaker 2 (37:47):
Oh yeah, figure it out right.
Speaker 1 (37:49):
I very much respect the companies that put people in
a new leadership position andthen have a program, just spend
time with them and make surethat they go through some
certain classes or trainings andthey stay with them for like
that first year to make sureeverything's okay.
Unfortunately, I don't see thata whole lot.
Speaker 2 (38:10):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (38:12):
And yet that's what needs to happen.
If you're going to do that, ifyou're going to put those people
there, which people wanna moveup I mean, that's their goal a
lot of times but you've gotta bethere to help nurture them and
guide them and make sure thatthey stay away from some of
those potholes and pitfalls thatare out there in front of them.
Speaker 2 (38:31):
That's right.
So have you thought abouttaking your book into different
organizations and using that asa tool to maybe help them
develop a program?
Or maybe you come in and justdo some skills training?
Speaker 1 (38:48):
with leaders.
I very much have.
In fact, I've got a friendwho's a personal coach and
that's something I've reallylearned about through this,
through the book process andmeeting new people and being
able to venture into areas I'vereally never ventured in before.
There's this huge area ofcoaching.
(39:08):
I guess I called it mentor inmy past, but what I've learned
is that I had this friend and heuses my book as kind of a
curriculum and I'm happy for himto do that because it's very
much set.
I told you the attitudes and theprinciples, but it's each one
of those.
You can spend time with aperson and help them identify
(39:32):
the areas in their lives wheremaybe they're strong in a
certain area or they're weak inanother area.
The book is set up to do thatvery easily and so, yeah, I have
thought about that and,honestly, the part where I feel
the most comfortable, the partwhere I enjoy and I have fun
doing, is talking with you andtalking with other people.
(39:55):
These were my words put into abook, but the words were my
story and I've always told mystory and I'm most comfortable
telling my story.
So I guess maybe one of thethings by writing the book was
to hope that it unlocked somedoors that would allow me to
come in and now be able to talkto you, and whether that's a
(40:18):
group of a thousand or a groupof two, it doesn't matter, it's
just being able to share thoselessons I've learned and maybe
help you along your way.
Speaker 2 (40:27):
Yeah, I agree.
That's one of the mostrewarding parts of what I do
when I go into organizations ifI can work with a small group of
people or if it's justone-on-one.
To be able to have thoseconversations and share your
stories and then to see theconnections being made.
That is so incredibly rewarding.
(40:50):
And I taught communication atthe college level for 18 years,
and that was another thing.
You made me think of that whenyou talked about starting out in
IT, because at the university Iwas teaching at, most recently
they made it a requirement thatall of the IT students, computer
sciences students, they have totake public speaking as a
(41:13):
course to graduate.
And of course, oh the hemmingin the hawing right From the
students.
It's like the lamenting thatwas happening.
But then by the end of thesemester it never failed.
Every single time they werelike, oh man, we should have
taken this a long time ago.
And I'm like, yeah, too bad,you're a senior now and you're
(41:34):
graduating.
You know, imagine how thiscould have helped you three
years ago.
Speaker 1 (41:39):
Unfortunately, it has always kind of got the They've
kind of got the stigma thatthey're intelligent nerds.
They can't speak any otherlanguage but the technology
language.
I think that's a great idea tohave them be able to, because,
honestly, in a career in IT,you're going to have to talk to
(41:59):
users of your systems, you'regoing to have to talk to the
business and you need to be ableto translate those technical
ideas into speech that peopleunderstand.
So that's a skill that has tobe taught for sure.
So good for you doing that.
Speaker 2 (42:16):
Yeah, and I found that the IT students, the
computer science students thatwere in my class, oftentimes
they were so incredibly creativewith their speeches, so it just
gave them an opportunity to dosomething different.
And I think you're right.
there is this kind of stigmathat's attached to even just
(42:39):
going into STEM in any of thesetech-oriented type of career
paths and for them to be able tohave a space where they were
given permission to, hey, be ascreative as you want.
I just want you to write thisout, practice it and then
present it to us and you pickthe topic, and it really helped
(43:04):
me see how it was a differentside.
It was a different side tothese students that it was truly
.
It was just the coolest thingto be in the classroom with them
.
So that was really somethingthat I quite enjoyed being with
those students.
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Oftentimes they have a verydeep insight into a lot of the
(43:30):
things that we would discuss inour communication classes if
given the opportunity to do that.
There's one thing I wanted toask you before we ran out of
time Could you share with us thetitle of your book?
How did you arrive at the goodor life?
Speaker 1 (43:47):
Yeah.
So when I was younger I went tomy uncles.
And the reason we went to myuncles is because I had a pretty
large-sized family that's mymom's brother and so he had the
house the size that would holdus all for the Christmas
gatherings and Thanksgivinggatherings, things like that and
he was always a very positiveman still is to this day and I
walked in one day and he saidhow are you doing, kendall?
(44:08):
And I said I'm OK and he saidno, there's only two kinds of
days good or good.
That was a story I told formany years just like that, and
people would always kind oflaugh and I would talk about how
he knew it was grammaticallyincorrect, but it was a way to
get something across.
And what I learned over time,especially through the writing
(44:29):
of this book, is that While it'sfine to get up each day and
make a choice of today's goingto be either good or good, or
that's not what he was reallytelling me.
What he was telling me is thatliving a gooder life is having a
mindset that today I'm going totry to be better than I was
yesterday.
I'm going to shoot for thatgooder.
(44:51):
I've learned that through allof this, but people have asked
me so what is the good or life?
How do you live the good orlife?
What does that even mean?
There are times in people'slives where they don't have the
energy, they don't really havethe want to, a lot of times, to
want to choose good or gooder ona day.
There's something that'shappened that has just made them
(45:13):
struggle to even get through aday.
Sometimes being gooder is justsurviving the day and just
trying to make it through.
I understand that and that'swhy I talk about those
life-changing moments.
There are those times in lifewhere it's just not feasible to
ask someone to do that the goodor life.
I was reading a quote one timeby a man named Raul O May and he
(45:38):
said the opposite of courage isnot cowardice, it is conformity
.
It's a good quote Basicallydoing what I've always done,
because that's just what I'vealways done, and not really
knowing why I even do it.
I looked at that one time and Iwas thinking about that in
light of the good or life and Ithought you know, to live the
good or life, it takes courage.
It takes courage to get uptoday and say, all right, I'm
(46:01):
not going to do what I've alwaysdone.
I'm not going to do whateverybody else is doing.
I'm going to do what I know Ineed to do to be better today
than I was yesterday.
That takes a lot of courage, ittakes effort.
It's easy to just do whateverand not really know why.
But to live intentionally and tothink about every action that
you do, think about everythingyou say, think about listening,
(46:25):
think about being aware it takeseffort to do that every day on
everything that you do.
But what I said about it was,if you can do those two things
and you can incorporate thesethings in the book that I talk
about, the good or life is alife of freedom that you will
never experience, maybe everagain, because for the first
(46:49):
time, you have control of whatyou're doing.
You're not letting all of theebbs and flows of the world
dictate what you do, how youthink, what your emotions are.
You're taking control of that.
There was a man named Hal Elrod,I believe was his name, and he
(47:10):
had a quote one time, and itsaid the moment you accept
responsibility for everything inyour life is the moment you
gain the power to changeanything in your life, and so
that's really what the good orlife is is just stepping out,
committing to being differentnot being different just to be
different, but being differentbecause that's what's going to
(47:32):
make me better than I wasyesterday and understanding that
I don't have to be pushedaround by the winds of life.
I can make those decisionsmyself and choose whether I'm
going to allow that thing that'sswirling around me to make me
be negative today or I'm goingto choose to be positive and if
we can do it now understand I'msaying if, because I don't have
(47:56):
this mastered isn't hard- it ishard.
And they're going to be thosetimes where you fail and you're
going to backslide and you'renot going to make the right
choice and you are going toallow the winds of life to shift
you around.
But at least if we're justaware of what I need to do, I
(48:18):
don't want to do that, I don'twant to allow that.
To do that to me, just to havethat thought is the right
thought to have and to pullourselves out of that.
And so that's what the good orlife is, and that's where it
started, from my uncle one dayin a farmhouse in Arkansas just
telling me make a choice to begood or good.
Speaker 2 (48:38):
I love it.
And you're so right.
You know what we have toforgive ourselves for being
human.
We're going to have thosemoments.
I have learned that I will givemyself permission to have my
temper tantrum for about 20minutes get it out of my system
and then at the end of the 20minutes it's like okay, jen, get
it together, what is your nextmove?
(48:59):
We really do have to allowourselves that moment.
Sure, things are going to hitthe fan, it just happens.
But I really appreciate youunderscoring the importance of
intentionality.
And it is a choice every singleday, and sometimes it's a
(49:20):
difficult choice to get out ofthe bed some days.
But you're right.
So you take it for what it is,forgive yourself if you have a
bad day, and then how am I goingto be better tomorrow?
I think that's a fantastic wayto move about life.
Speaker 1 (49:36):
Yeah, I do my best.
Speaker 2 (49:39):
I'm not perfect, but I try, that's right, none of us
are.
Speaker 1 (49:43):
I say I'm an evangelist for the good of life,
so I'm hoping I'm justinspiring enough people to say,
hey, maybe I can get up tomorrowand try to be better than I was
today.
If I can do that for one person, then this was all worth it.
Speaker 2 (50:00):
I think that is the perfect way to end this show.
I don't have anything else toadd to that, because that was so
well said.
Yes, except for I agree.
Well, kendall, it has been sucha pleasure having this
conversation with you.
Thank you so much for wantingto be on the show and for
(50:20):
sharing with us the book thatyou've written some of your life
stories.
It's been a real pleasure.
I've truly enjoyed thisconversation.
Speaker 1 (50:29):
I have too.
Thank you so much for having me.
I appreciate it.
Speaker 2 (50:33):
How can we get in touch with you?
Speaker 1 (50:34):
Well, of course, on Facebook, I've got an author's
page out there.
Linkedin, I've got a page, butalso you can go to the good or
life groupcom and there's acontact form on there.
If you want to talk, we'll talkand I'll listen and we'll see
where that takes us.
If you want me to come speak toa group, you can do it.
You can contact me throughthere.
(50:55):
I've tried to make it easybecause I want people to be able
to get me and I want to be ableto talk and just express these
ideas.
I think it's good for our worldtoday.
I hope that more people canincorporate it in their lives.
Speaker 2 (51:08):
That's right.
All right, I'll make sure thatthat link is in the show notes,
so check it out, everybody.
All right, I hope you enjoyedtoday's episode.
I know I did.
Once again, I want to thank youfor being a guest on the show
and everybody who's listening.
I hope you have a wonderfulrest of your day.
All right, y'all take care now.
Bye.
(51:29):
Thanks for listening.
If you enjoyed this episode andyou'd like to help support the
podcast, please share it withothers Just about it on social
media, or leave a rating and areview.
Welcome to the Communication 24-7 podcast,
where we communicate about howwe communicate.
I'm your host, jennifer Furlong, so Kendall.
Speaker 1 (00:29):
Yes.
Speaker 2 (00:30):
Welcome to the show.
Speaker 1 (00:31):
Thank you.
Thank you for having me Lookingforward to the conversation.
Speaker 2 (00:35):
Absolutely.
I am so happy to have you onthe show.
I think we're going to have afantastic conversation.
So first of all, thank you foryour service, thank, you.
I love highlighting veterans onmy show.
As a fellow veteran, it's anice opportunity to be able to
show the world, share with theworld that yes, there are things
(00:56):
we are accomplishing out here,and so I appreciate the
opportunity to be able to dothat.
I think you're really going toenjoy today's conversation.
Number one the reason myinterest was piqued and having
Kendall on the show is the titleof his book, the Gooder Life,
in layman's terms, and I waslike that's a pretty awesome
(01:19):
title.
So consider my interest piqued.
I want to talk to this guy andkind of pick his brain and see
what this is all about.
And, of course, communicationand listening skills are at the
heart of having a good or liferight.
It's definitely building blockof that.
Why don't you tell us a littlebit about your background and
(01:40):
how did you get to this point?
How did you get to the point ofwriting the book the Gooder
Life?
Speaker 1 (01:46):
Yeah, I grew up in a small town in Northwest Arkansas
had an idea that I wanted to.
As a kid I tore electronicsapart.
I love to tear things apartJust figured I would do that in
my career.
I had no idea there were nocareers of tearing electronics
apart, but I just thought Iwanted to do that.
I'm colorblind, though, andthat pretty much sealed the deal
(02:07):
on any kind of electronicsthat's all color coded.
So I ended up going into theUnited States Air Force and was
a computer operator and went toschool at night, became a
computer programmer, and that'sreally what started my IT career
, which I've been in for almost40 years now.
But as I got out of the AirForce actually while I was in
(02:28):
the Air Force and after gettingout of the Air Force and
starting my career, I was one ofthose guys that would I like to
observe people.
I would look at people who weremy mentors, people who were my
supervisors, my bosses, myfriends, and I just kind of
recorded mentally, and in ajournal also, things that would
(02:51):
draw me to them.
You know, I was the guy whowould sit in an office and say,
man, if I ever get to be aleader, I want to do things like
this person or I don't want todo things like this person, and
so I just began to kind ofcollect these items that seem to
set people apart and make themdifferent.
(03:11):
At some point a few years ago,I finally had a head full of
information that I just had toget out, just simply for my
sanity.
So I said I'm going to write abook.
Not knowing anything about theprocess, was able to be
introduced to a lady in tech.
She led me and gave me greatguidance, was able to get a book
(03:36):
out.
It was one of the hardestthings I've ever done.
You think you've got all ofthis and you just start to write
it and all of a sudden it'slike that's it.
That's all there is.
I only wrote one paragraph,right.
So you've really got to dig inthere and really think about all
of the stuff you've learnedover those years and put some
substance around them.
(03:57):
I tell a lot of people I knowthat I'm a new writer and
writing, just like any otherskill, has to be developed, and
I think you develop that byreading, by talking on podcasts
like this, by learning differentthings, and today, if I were to
write the book again, it wouldprobably look different.
It would be the same content,but I would have developed it
differently or something.
(04:18):
But what I do tell people isthat the content of the book is
not anything new.
It's very simple steps toliving a different type of life,
but it's real and it's solid.
Whether I present it to youthat way or not, it is real and
solid.
And if you follow the steps Isay in the book, if you
incorporate those things intoyour life, I truly believe it'll
(04:41):
set your life apart and you'llbe a different person because of
it.
And so that's where I got today.
Speaker 2 (04:48):
That's awesome.
There's something you said Iwanted to just kind of dive into
a little bit.
You talked about how, goingthrough this process of writing
this book and picking thingsapart and learning how to
express yourself in thestorytelling, you're having to
learn this skill, that you'redeveloping this newfound skill,
(05:09):
and you said it was verytherapeutic.
I think that's something reallyimportant to underscore as a
part of something you stand togain in written communication.
I don't think enough peoplereally give it the opportunity
to just sit down and get yourthoughts down on paper, get your
feelings down on paper.
(05:29):
Like you said, it does kind ofhelp with the sanity bit.
I've experienced the same thing.
Can you say a little bit moreabout that, about the process
itself, and what was it aboutthis process that helped you
feel like you were gaining, justmaybe, a stronger footing?
Speaker 1 (05:48):
You know, I've always been a journaler.
Maybe it's just writing downthe things I do at work each day
, you know, just keeping trackof what I do, so I won't forget
those.
But I've always been a personthat when something comes into
my head I'll just grab anotebook and just write about it
.
Maybe it's a paragraph, maybeit's a page, but, like you said,
it helps me to get that out,number one, and then to be able
(06:09):
to reread back through that andconfirm what I was thinking and
maybe even while I'm writing Icome up with a different thought
.
You know, I think that's kindof what we are as human beings
we need to get things out.
You've always seen people whoand we've said about them they
bottle things up inside of them.
(06:31):
At some point you're going toexplode and you've got to get
that stuff out.
For me it is therapeutic to getthat out and to be able to
write about it.
I talk about one of the thingsin the book essential attitudes.
I call them three essentialattitudes and it's kind of the
foundation, but one of those isbeing thankful.
Being thankful for me is it's aperspective exercise.
(06:53):
Each morning I try to take sometime to think about things I'm
thankful for.
But to go back to your question, there was one time in my life
a few years ago where I was justkind of down and I'm not really
a down person.
I began to get up each day andI would write down three or four
or five things in a journalthat I was thankful for, and it
(07:15):
began to make a difference in mylife and I thought why is that
making a difference?
And what I realized was whenwe're kind of in a down state or
things are kind of catastrophicaround us or they're just
swirling and it's pulling ourattention in all different
directions, we're very focusedon ourselves and what I learned
(07:36):
was when I would stop, be quiet,write down things I was
thankful for, for that briefmoment my eyes would turn away
from myself and out to thethings I was thankful for.
What I learned was that thethings around me that didn't
necessarily change, but my viewof those things around me, begin
to change and I begin toapproach those things
(07:59):
differently, simply because ofhaving a thankful attitude and
writing down what I was thankfulfor.
And so I'm very much a believerin that writing process and and
to get all of this book out onpaper.
It was a great accomplishmentfor me because it was like I did
it.
But but much more than that wasjust getting it out, and If I
(08:23):
can help someone who maybe readsthe book, if I can help them
learn one thing, then it wasworth writing the book.
And that was something mypublisher really, really talked
to me about was Kindle.
If you could affect one personin this world by writing this
book, would you write it?
Well, I think, of course, wewould all say yes, and I said
yes, and so that's really beenmy goal through the whole
(08:46):
writing process was can I sharesomething?
I want to share a quote withyou.
I read this this last week, sothis is brand new.
This is on your podcast.
Only Nobody else has heard, butI'm gonna read it right now.
Your journey is not the same asmine and my journey is not
yours, but if we meet on acertain path, may we encourage
(09:10):
each other.
And so that was kind of my myprocess in this.
I've had a, I've got a story inmy life and I wanted to share
that story.
But my story is not your storyand your story is not mine.
But there may be somesimilarities of things that
we've gone through where, whenwe do meet, I can't tell you how
to handle your problems orhappiness and you can't tell me.
(09:32):
But we can share those Thingsthat we've gone through and
maybe encourage each other.
And that was my purpose inwriting this book, and just
getting it out on paper washopefully to encourage other
people.
Speaker 2 (09:43):
Oh, I love that because there is not one of us
who has not Experienced sometype of hardship.
Sure, you know, so many havegone through whatever type of
trauma, you know, and, and itcan be very difficult.
Just, life is not easy.
There's always somethingWaiting right around the corner,
(10:06):
you know, just when you thinkyou have things handled, it's
just gonna completely, justknock you down.
And so to be able to havesomething to go to, to look
forward to, you know, a sense ofsupport or a sense of hope, you
know something to look forwardto the future, that's so
(10:29):
incredibly important.
And you know I'm so happy thatyou got this book out, because,
for you, what a fantasticprocess to be able to go through
.
You know I understand exactlyhow you feel when it's like, oh,
look at that, okay, let me sitback and kind of pat myself on
the back for a little bit.
(10:49):
But then you're like, okay, now, what can I do with this?
The book is written right.
You know, now how do I get thisout to where people can
actually read it, so I canimpact others, you know, so they
can benefit from this?
absolutely take me through someof the major Ideas.
What are some of the buildingblocks that you have within this
(11:12):
book that we could take away?
You know that.
You know earlier I hadmentioned we like to talk about
communication skills, and we'vealready touched on one of those
how written Communication canabsolutely be therapeutic.
But take me through some of theother things that you may have
touched on in connection tocommunication skills in your
book.
Speaker 1 (11:32):
So, so let me tell you real quickly these Essential
attitudes and principles Italked about, and then we'll
highlight one of those becauseof your podcast.
So my essential attitudes arejust being thankful, being
humble and being respectful,mm-hmm, and those three items,
which I call the foundation, aregoing to tie into the one item
(11:54):
that it's a principle thatreally talks to your podcast.
My building blocks are having apurpose being a listener, being
a thinker, just being aware,emotional intelligence, being
aware of your surroundings,being aware of other things
around you, making good choicesand then being a finisher of
things that you start.
(12:14):
So so let's talk about thelistening part, which is one of
the six building blockprinciples I talked about in the
book.
I read something one time Ithink it was called the lost art
of listening, was the book thatI read, and essentially, the
main, main theme of this book isthat when you are listening,
(12:35):
it's not about you, it's aboutthe other person.
That's right.
I remember one day, a Person Iworked with was going through
kind of a hard time here at workand and I've been what on the
leadership team for a while andand have been a mentor to many
people in our company and andthey called me and I realized at
(12:57):
the beginning of thisconversation that they just
needed to get stuff out.
It was emotional, it was a.
It was a time just to to be mad, to be angry, to be upset, and
I caught myself at one point inthat conversation of saying, yes
, I remember one time when I andI stopped and I thought you
(13:20):
know what?
Yes, I do have a story thatwould Maybe give them some
insight into what they're goingthrough.
But right now, this is notabout me telling a story.
This is about me listening tothem and just allowing them to
get this out, and that was agreat lesson for me.
Speaker 2 (13:41):
Even and I had already written about this- yeah
, was that before or after youhad read that?
The book about?
Speaker 1 (13:47):
it after it was, after I'd read the book, and it
made me Think about that.
You know, a great, a greattestament to what we learn when
we read books.
I don't I don't remember awhole lot about that book, but I
do remember that and that was,that was a central theme that
helped me with this person andit's helped me many times after
(14:08):
that too.
You know, you mentioned aboutgoing through times in our lives
and that's one of the things inthe book I talk about, about
life-changing moments, thosethings we go through that make
us go to bed at night and seethe world differently than we
did that morning, becausesomething has truly changed us.
That could be good, that couldbe bad, but when we do that we
learn things of how we talkedearlier about maybe giving
(14:32):
people advice and what.
What I learned through mylife-changing moment is that I
don't have all of the answers,and what I learned going through
my time of life-changing Wasthat I really enjoyed when
people just came and sat with meand just allowed me to maybe be
, be quiet, maybe to talk.
We live in a world where wetalk about awkward silence.
(14:55):
I Kind of like awkward silencemyself, because sometimes I love
silence.
Well, if you were going througha hard time, jen and and I was
one of your close friends and Icame to you.
Maybe you need me just to sitthere with you.
That's right, and let's bequiet.
You know that's reallylistening.
(15:17):
Yeah there's just no verballistening going on, but we're
both just kind of listening.
We're listening by.
I'm watching your actions, I'mwatching your movements, maybe
I'm watching you cry, maybe I'mwatching you laugh, I, but I'm
observing and I'm recording thatand in a sense that's kind of
(15:37):
listening, and so that's what Italk about in the book.
That's why it's so important ishow many times have we seen
these people in our lives whereyou're talking to them and
they're looking at you and thenwhen you finish talking, they
say now, what about so-and-so?
And you think I just told youthat right, yeah, right.
(15:58):
And I've had that happen somany times and you think what's
the point of even talking?
Speaker 2 (16:02):
Those are thinking about everything else.
Speaker 1 (16:05):
And then those times where you're talking to someone
and you know they're simplywaiting for you to stop so they
can talk.
Speaker 2 (16:12):
Yeah, that's all they're doing here.
Speaker 1 (16:14):
You know, that's not the person I want to be.
I want to be the person that'swilling to listen to what you
say, contemplate what you saidand then, if there's a response
needed, give you that response.
Or maybe there's not a responseneeded, that's right.
That's the listening I talkabout in the book.
Speaker 2 (16:35):
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(17:18):
notes.
Yeah, you have touched onseveral important aspects of
listening, and one of them Iwant to dive into for the
listeners here, those of you whoare listening and paying
attention and just not passivelygetting the information.
(17:40):
You touched on a skill calledempathic listening, and my
longtime listeners have heardthis story a million times, so
guess what?
You're just going to have tohear it just one more time.
You all.
Speaker 1 (17:53):
So that is perfect.
I'm going to need to hear it.
Speaker 2 (17:56):
I am not naturally an empathic listener, it's just my
personality.
I very much am a problem solverand so my go-to instinct is,
when somebody comes to me andthey start complaining about
something or what I wouldconsider to be whining about
something, you know they'regoing through something.
(18:16):
I have had to learn over timeto keep my mouth shut, kind of
like what you were talking aboutafter reading that book.
You have to just sit there andeven though at the moment I may
not necessarily be able torelate to whatever it is they're
going through right in thatmoment, but that doesn't even
matter.
If I can't relate to it, itdoes not even matter.
(18:39):
So, learning that skill ofstaying silent, let them vent,
let them get off of their chestwhatever they need to get off of
their chest and then wait,because if they want you to help
them solve the problem, or ifthey're even interested in your
opinion about the problem, theywill ask you.
(19:01):
So don't offer it before theyask.
Yeah.
So it seems like I have reallygood empathy and those empathic
listening skills, but I've justlearned how to trick everybody.
So what skill you can learn,y'all it is.
Speaker 1 (19:21):
No, you're exactly right, and I don't have all of
the answers a lot of time whenI'm talking with people.
But they didn't ask me to haveall of the answers.
They asked me to be therebecause I'm a friend and they
trust me.
You know, that's a key thingtoo, what I just said right
there.
In order for somebody to sharewith you those deep feelings, a
lot of times they have to trustyou.
(19:42):
That's right, and that trust isbuilt through a relationship.
It takes time to build thattrust.
It takes a very short time tobreak that trust, and maybe
breaking that trust would bethat they're not listening to me
.
They don't want to hear whatI've got to say.
But trust is a big thing.
(20:03):
I told you all ago about thethree essential attitudes of
thankful, humble, respectful,and those three go into the
listening also, because I haveto be respectful enough of you
to allow you to talk and you mayactually say some things that I
don't agree with.
I wish you wouldn't say them,but that's not the point.
Right then, I respect youenough to allow you to have your
(20:23):
time.
Humbleness we have to be humbleenough to understand that we
don't have all of the answers,that I'm not here to fix all of
the problems.
I'm here just to be your friend.
You know this goes into theworkplace also.
There's lots of times where I'min meetings and you need to
just listen and learn.
(20:44):
I don't have all of the answers.
I don't know everything aboutwhat we're doing, yet I've got
good people around me who do,and I need to be humble enough
to know that, yes, I'm theleader, but I don't have to have
all of the answers in the room.
We've all heard that say youdon't have to be the smartest
person in the room.
A lot of people, unfortunately,feel like they do need to be.
(21:04):
I'm the leader, I need to bethe smartest.
No, you don't.
In fact, you'll probably winpeople over more by just being
humble enough to say that Idon't have all of the answers.
I need you to tell me what'sgoing on here.
And so all of it, all of thestuff in the book kind of ties
together and can be used as acommunication book.
Speaker 2 (21:28):
It absolutely could.
You know another thing that youhad mentioned earlier that made
me think of a concept incommunication, you know we talk
about, there's a differencebetween the content level
meaning of a communication actversus a relationship level
meaning of a communication act.
(21:49):
And so when you were talkingabout silence and just being
there, and there does not haveto be anything said but the fact
of just being there in thatmoment, you know, and this plays
into the building, the trustthat you were talking about, you
know, if we say something thator we don't say something, the
(22:09):
content level meaning is youknow exactly what it is we said.
You know, if I tell you I careabout you, you're getting that
message right.
But the relationship levelmeaning is what really comes
through in those moments.
So you don't even really haveto say I care about you, but by
sitting there and maybe holdingtheir hand or putting your hand
(22:33):
on their shoulder, or maybe youdon't even have to touch them in
that moment, you just sit therevery quietly while they cry,
while they get it out, and thatrelationship level meaning
that's coming through by doingthat action is saying I care
about you, and that willsolidify their trust in you a
(22:54):
thousand times more than youcould say I care about you 100
times.
But that one act is what reallywill get them to understand
that you truly do care aboutthem.
So I appreciate that youbrought up the example of
silence, because you're right.
I don't think enough of usreally appreciate what silence
(23:16):
can do in a relationship.
Speaker 1 (23:18):
Absolutely, and you talked about empathy earlier and
right there you talked aboutmaybe somebody crying.
The silence can make usuncomfortable.
Emotion can make usuncomfortable also, oh yeah, but
if we're there truly because wecare about that person, we'll
be OK with that.
We'll be OK to let them cry,we'll be OK to let them laugh at
(23:43):
times where we think, why areyou laughing?
We'll be OK for the silence.
I'm a firm believer that ourlives are built on relationships
.
We need human-to-humaninteraction.
We need to talk with people.
I don't feel like we can be ourbest selves if we are in a
cocoon and just don't interactwith anybody.
(24:03):
And so building thoserelationships in life are
extremely important, especiallywhen you have those times where
you need those people that youtrust around you.
You're thankful to have themand you're thankful that you had
those relationships built.
Speaker 2 (24:20):
That's right.
Building that trust is reallythe foundation you need in order
to have the more difficultconversations as well.
Because I noticed earlier youknow you had mentioned if
someone is having a hard timeand you know they're just kind
of maybe unloading on you andthey may say something you don't
agree with, they may saysomething that is maybe a little
(24:42):
harsh because in that momentthey're just so emotional and
that's what's driving whateverit is that they're talking about
.
And and that brings up a pointthat sometimes it's not the time
and place to bring up somethingthat you know you probably
should bring it up at some point, especially if they said
(25:03):
something really upsetting orthey said something that was
untrue, you know, said somethingthat maybe was cruel in the
moment, you know, because of theemotions.
But there is a time and placeand if you have been able to
create a strong foundation oftrust, then later on, when the
(25:25):
emotions have subsided and wewere thinking with our logical
brain again, then that could bea good opportunity to say hey,
you know, do you have a moment Ijust want to talk about, you
know, something that that youhad mentioned earlier and, yeah,
that that opens up thatopportunity to have that
conversation.
(25:46):
So I think you are so correctin that you know sometimes it's
not the time and place.
You have to be able to wait forthe appropriate moment to bring
up some things, especially ifthere are emotions involved.
Speaker 1 (25:59):
Absolutely In an emotional moment.
There may even be times whereyou're just that innocent
listener.
You're there to help them, butall of a sudden, some of the
direction of the anger may comeright at you.
Well, you don't understand.
You've never had to do this,you've never done this, and I
(26:22):
think that's that time where youhave to understand.
This is not personal for me,about me.
They're just struggling rightnow.
You've got to be able to takethat.
But you mentioned about sayingthings sometimes when it's not
the right place, it's not thetime, and I talk about that
exactly under awareness in mybook.
Yeah, there is a how many timeshave we been in a conversation
(26:46):
or been in a room with peopleand somebody says something and
everybody kind of cringes andyou think, oh, that is not the
right thing to say right now.
Oh, yeah, A board room,anything.
It's not the time to say that.
That's just that part ofunderstanding what's going on
around us, understanding theemotions around us, reading the
(27:11):
people around us, reading theroom around us and just being
aware to know what's right andwhat's wrong right now.
And so I talk about that,exactly that exact thing that
you mentioned.
But you're exactly right on theemotions.
Emotions are hard, yeah, theyare.
(27:31):
Sometimes you got to just letthem get out, yeah, and then we
can maybe have a little bit moreof a logical discussion after
that.
Speaker 2 (27:40):
Yeah, you're right, and you had mentioned, you know,
somebody may tell you you don'tunderstand, you've never been
through this and really theresponse is you're right, you're
right, I don't, I can'tunderstand.
I mean I've, you're right, Imay have had an experience that
might be similar but, I'm nothaving your experience.
Speaker 1 (28:04):
Exactly.
Speaker 2 (28:05):
This happens a lot in you know I'm a cancer survivor
and this is a conversation thatI've had with a lot of other
cancer survivors is like whenyou first get diagnosed and
everybody it seems likeeverybody has advice for you, or
they have you know like aremedy for you, or they tell you
(28:25):
, oh well, at least it's notthis kind of cancer, as if you
know like you got the goodcancer right.
It's so.
You know, as the person on thereceiving end, it really serves
to diminish what it is thatyou're going through, and I know
people mean well sure.
(28:46):
So this is just a good learningopportunity for anybody who's
listening to our conversation.
Is you know when somebody'scoming to you and they really
are going through it?
Speaker 1 (28:56):
Sure they are.
Speaker 2 (28:57):
You know, and it's, it's not for us to determine how
bad it is or how good it is forthem, because that oftentimes
will just make them feel worse.
You know, you think you'retrying to say something to make
it better, but in actualityyou're making it worse.
So that's why you really justhave to.
(29:18):
If they blow up, don't take itpersonally.
Just say you're right, you're.
I don't get it.
I don't understand it because Ihaven't.
I haven't been through whatyou're going through right now.
Speaker 1 (29:28):
Great point and and for your listeners also.
So when I talked earlier aboutour life changing moment, mine
was my sister passed away.
That was really the firstperson in my life that was very
close to me, who I had lost.
So so it was new for me to gothrough this experience.
I hadn't done this before, andwhat I found is that, like you
(29:51):
said, many people will come upto you and say hey, I know what
you're going through.
Right, Probably the same thinghappened to you.
Hey, I had the same thinghappen to me.
No, you didn't have the samething.
But what I had to learn was whatexactly you said.
They don't really know what tosay.
They're trying to say somethingthat will comfort you.
(30:11):
That is not a comforting thingto say.
And so what I learned throughthat and when I have been with
people who have lost a loved oneor anything since that point,
I'll do exactly what you said.
Well, I'll go up to them andsay I don't know what you're
going through, but I want you toknow I'm here and if you need
me, I can listen, I can help youdo something, I can run errands
(30:36):
for you.
You know that's what peoplewant.
And so for your listeners, ifthey do go through these types
of things with people, just besensitive to the fact that while
you have gone through somethingsimilar, you don't know their
experience, so just be there forthem.
Be there.
Speaker 2 (30:56):
And there's.
You know that goes a long way.
If you don't know what to say,it's okay to say it's fine.
I don't know what to say.
This is horrible.
I'm sorry you're going throughthis.
Speaker 1 (31:07):
Yes.
And that's all you need to say.
That's it, that's it, that's it.
They just want to know you care.
That's right.
That's all that needs to bemade known in that conversation,
as I care for you.
Speaker 2 (31:20):
I had interviewed some time ago a woman who works
in HR and her husband had passedaway from cancer, and, as an HR
director, it helped her realize, you know, we're talking about
going through differentexperiences and your eyes are
open to things that you hadnever even considered before.
(31:43):
And so, as an HR director, itmade her realize, wow, managers
really aren't equipped to knowwhat to say or you know how to
react if any of their employeesexperience a big loss, you know,
like the one that she had.
And so we had a very similarconversation and one thing that
(32:06):
she gave my listeners as a pieceof advice and I thought it was
a wonderful piece of advice.
She said you know, if somebodyis going through something
really, really difficult likethat, it's not enough to say,
hey, just let me know what youneed, sure, because at that
point they may not even knowwhat they need.
(32:27):
But the more specific you can be, just like you gave a really
good example hey, if you need meto run some errands for you, I
can do that.
You know, that's very specific.
If you need me to wash the pileof dishes right here, I will
take care of that for you, like.
So you know the more specificyou can be if you really truly
(32:49):
want to help that person out.
That takes the burden off ofthem to try to figure out how
you can help.
So again, let's not make itabout us, right.
Let's really, really payattention to something very
specific that could actually behelpful, and I thought that was
such a fantastic piece of advicefor anybody who really wants to
(33:12):
be someone of service.
Really.
Speaker 1 (33:16):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (33:16):
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(34:02):
in the show notes.
Speaker 1 (34:05):
You know, Jim, we could talk all day heading down
that path that the HR managertalked about, but it's a great
example also, and this is a bitdifferent and I'll stray here
and come back.
Speaker 2 (34:16):
But I love to stray, so that's what all these
conversations are for.
Speaker 1 (34:22):
How many times in companies and places where we've
worked are people hired forleadership positions based upon
their skills in a job, but notnecessarily based upon the
people skills, the soft skills,and so we put somebody in a
position where they're gonnafail, probably because when you
(34:44):
do begin to start getting thoseleadership positions, you're
going to deal with things inpeople's lives.
Everybody has lives outside ofthis work and those are going to
bleed over into this at somepoint, and maybe we need to
focus a little more on the softskills of the people that we put
in leadership positions.
Speaker 2 (35:05):
Well, I am a little biased because my background is
in communication, so of courseI'm gonna agree with you on that
.
I'm actually on a personalcrusade right now to even change
the language that we use.
When we talk about communicationskills, like I hear it referred
to as soft skills, and we'vebeen referring to written
(35:27):
communication, oralcommunication, listening skills
as soft skills since I mean Ican remember.
I mean it's you know, everybusiness book that you would
read will probably mention, youknow, soft skills at some point.
I think we're at a point thatit's we understand that
(35:47):
communication skills are socritical, especially for leaders
, managers, employees, personalrelationships if you want to
become engaged civically and,you know, make a difference in
your communities.
I think we're beginning torealize, finally, that these
skills, they're not necessary,they're not really soft, are
they?
Speaker 1 (36:06):
I mean they are critical skills.
Speaker 2 (36:10):
These are critical skills.
Yeah, yeah, and I agree withyou 100%, but again, I'm biased
because I'm the one that'spreaching it.
Speaker 1 (36:22):
You know, I heard a man say one time I'm gonna make
this up, let's say it's anautomotive company but he told
me he said you know, theautomotive part of the business
is 20%.
The people part of the businessis about 80%.
Speaker 2 (36:37):
Oh yeah.
Speaker 1 (36:39):
And yet we do everything focused on that 20% a
lot of times instead of that80%.
I've learned that in my careerit's the dealing with the people
that usually ends up being thehardest, but I will say it can
be the most fulfilling also, andit's the area where we end up
(36:59):
focusing most of our time, a lotof the time.
Speaker 2 (37:02):
Oh yeah, it's usually what happens in an organization
is congratulations, you areawesome at your job, we're gonna
give you a promotion.
So you move up and all of asudden, you are responsible for
all of these people.
You have all of these directreports now and you have
absolutely no idea what in thehell you're supposed to do with
(37:24):
all of these direct reports.
And unfortunately, a lot ofmanagers in that respect are set
up for failure because they arefantastic at their job but then
they're not given theopportunity to develop those
other skills that are socritical and being successful.
Speaker 1 (37:43):
Yes, and many times we put them in that position and
then we leave them.
Speaker 2 (37:47):
Oh yeah, figure it out right.
Speaker 1 (37:49):
I very much respect the companies that put people in
a new leadership position andthen have a program, just spend
time with them and make surethat they go through some
certain classes or trainings andthey stay with them for like
that first year to make sureeverything's okay.
Unfortunately, I don't see thata whole lot.
Speaker 2 (38:10):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (38:12):
And yet that's what needs to happen.
If you're going to do that, ifyou're going to put those people
there, which people wanna moveup I mean, that's their goal a
lot of times but you've gotta bethere to help nurture them and
guide them and make sure thatthey stay away from some of
those potholes and pitfalls thatare out there in front of them.
Speaker 2 (38:31):
That's right.
So have you thought abouttaking your book into different
organizations and using that asa tool to maybe help them
develop a program?
Or maybe you come in and justdo some skills training?
Speaker 1 (38:48):
with leaders.
I very much have.
In fact, I've got a friendwho's a personal coach and
that's something I've reallylearned about through this,
through the book process andmeeting new people and being
able to venture into areas I'vereally never ventured in before.
There's this huge area ofcoaching.
(39:08):
I guess I called it mentor inmy past, but what I've learned
is that I had this friend and heuses my book as kind of a
curriculum and I'm happy for himto do that because it's very
much set.
I told you the attitudes and theprinciples, but it's each one
of those.
You can spend time with aperson and help them identify
(39:32):
the areas in their lives wheremaybe they're strong in a
certain area or they're weak inanother area.
The book is set up to do thatvery easily and so, yeah, I have
thought about that and,honestly, the part where I feel
the most comfortable, the partwhere I enjoy and I have fun
doing, is talking with you andtalking with other people.
(39:55):
These were my words put into abook, but the words were my
story and I've always told mystory and I'm most comfortable
telling my story.
So I guess maybe one of thethings by writing the book was
to hope that it unlocked somedoors that would allow me to
come in and now be able to talkto you, and whether that's a
(40:18):
group of a thousand or a groupof two, it doesn't matter, it's
just being able to share thoselessons I've learned and maybe
help you along your way.
Speaker 2 (40:27):
Yeah, I agree.
That's one of the mostrewarding parts of what I do
when I go into organizations ifI can work with a small group of
people or if it's justone-on-one.
To be able to have thoseconversations and share your
stories and then to see theconnections being made.
That is so incredibly rewarding.
(40:50):
And I taught communication atthe college level for 18 years,
and that was another thing.
You made me think of that whenyou talked about starting out in
IT, because at the university Iwas teaching at, most recently
they made it a requirement thatall of the IT students, computer
sciences students, they have totake public speaking as a
(41:13):
course to graduate.
And of course, oh the hemmingin the hawing right From the
students.
It's like the lamenting thatwas happening.
But then by the end of thesemester it never failed.
Every single time they werelike, oh man, we should have
taken this a long time ago.
And I'm like, yeah, too bad,you're a senior now and you're
(41:34):
graduating.
You know, imagine how thiscould have helped you three
years ago.
Speaker 1 (41:39):
Unfortunately, it has always kind of got the They've
kind of got the stigma thatthey're intelligent nerds.
They can't speak any otherlanguage but the technology
language.
I think that's a great idea tohave them be able to, because,
honestly, in a career in IT,you're going to have to talk to
(41:59):
users of your systems, you'regoing to have to talk to the
business and you need to be ableto translate those technical
ideas into speech that peopleunderstand.
So that's a skill that has tobe taught for sure.
So good for you doing that.
Speaker 2 (42:16):
Yeah, and I found that the IT students, the
computer science students thatwere in my class, oftentimes
they were so incredibly creativewith their speeches, so it just
gave them an opportunity to dosomething different.
And I think you're right.
there is this kind of stigmathat's attached to even just
(42:39):
going into STEM in any of thesetech-oriented type of career
paths and for them to be able tohave a space where they were
given permission to, hey, be ascreative as you want.
I just want you to write thisout, practice it and then
present it to us and you pickthe topic, and it really helped
(43:04):
me see how it was a differentside.
It was a different side tothese students that it was truly
.
It was just the coolest thingto be in the classroom with them
.
So that was really somethingthat I quite enjoyed being with
those students.
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Oftentimes they have a verydeep insight into a lot of the
(43:30):
things that we would discuss inour communication classes if
given the opportunity to do that.
There's one thing I wanted toask you before we ran out of
time Could you share with us thetitle of your book?
How did you arrive at the goodor life?
Speaker 1 (43:47):
Yeah.
So when I was younger I went tomy uncles.
And the reason we went to myuncles is because I had a pretty
large-sized family that's mymom's brother and so he had the
house the size that would holdus all for the Christmas
gatherings and Thanksgivinggatherings, things like that and
he was always a very positiveman still is to this day and I
walked in one day and he saidhow are you doing, kendall?
(44:08):
And I said I'm OK and he saidno, there's only two kinds of
days good or good.
That was a story I told formany years just like that, and
people would always kind oflaugh and I would talk about how
he knew it was grammaticallyincorrect, but it was a way to
get something across.
And what I learned over time,especially through the writing
(44:29):
of this book, is that While it'sfine to get up each day and
make a choice of today's goingto be either good or good, or
that's not what he was reallytelling me.
What he was telling me is thatliving a gooder life is having a
mindset that today I'm going totry to be better than I was
yesterday.
I'm going to shoot for thatgooder.
(44:51):
I've learned that through allof this, but people have asked
me so what is the good or life?
How do you live the good orlife?
What does that even mean?
There are times in people'slives where they don't have the
energy, they don't really havethe want to, a lot of times, to
want to choose good or gooder ona day.
There's something that'shappened that has just made them
(45:13):
struggle to even get through aday.
Sometimes being gooder is justsurviving the day and just
trying to make it through.
I understand that and that'swhy I talk about those
life-changing moments.
There are those times in lifewhere it's just not feasible to
ask someone to do that the goodor life.
I was reading a quote one timeby a man named Raul O May and he
(45:38):
said the opposite of courage isnot cowardice, it is conformity
.
It's a good quote Basicallydoing what I've always done,
because that's just what I'vealways done, and not really
knowing why I even do it.
I looked at that one time and Iwas thinking about that in
light of the good or life and Ithought you know, to live the
good or life, it takes courage.
It takes courage to get uptoday and say, all right, I'm
(46:01):
not going to do what I've alwaysdone.
I'm not going to do whateverybody else is doing.
I'm going to do what I know Ineed to do to be better today
than I was yesterday.
That takes a lot of courage, ittakes effort.
It's easy to just do whateverand not really know why.
But to live intentionally and tothink about every action that
you do, think about everythingyou say, think about listening,
(46:25):
think about being aware it takeseffort to do that every day on
everything that you do.
But what I said about it was,if you can do those two things
and you can incorporate thesethings in the book that I talk
about, the good or life is alife of freedom that you will
never experience, maybe everagain, because for the first
(46:49):
time, you have control of whatyou're doing.
You're not letting all of theebbs and flows of the world
dictate what you do, how youthink, what your emotions are.
You're taking control of that.
There was a man named Hal Elrod,I believe was his name, and he
(47:10):
had a quote one time, and itsaid the moment you accept
responsibility for everything inyour life is the moment you
gain the power to changeanything in your life, and so
that's really what the good orlife is is just stepping out,
committing to being differentnot being different just to be
different, but being differentbecause that's what's going to
(47:32):
make me better than I wasyesterday and understanding that
I don't have to be pushedaround by the winds of life.
I can make those decisionsmyself and choose whether I'm
going to allow that thing that'sswirling around me to make me
be negative today or I'm goingto choose to be positive and if
we can do it now understand I'msaying if, because I don't have
(47:56):
this mastered isn't hard- it ishard.
And they're going to be thosetimes where you fail and you're
going to backslide and you'renot going to make the right
choice and you are going toallow the winds of life to shift
you around.
But at least if we're justaware of what I need to do, I
(48:18):
don't want to do that, I don'twant to allow that.
To do that to me, just to havethat thought is the right
thought to have and to pullourselves out of that.
And so that's what the good orlife is, and that's where it
started, from my uncle one dayin a farmhouse in Arkansas just
telling me make a choice to begood or good.
Speaker 2 (48:38):
I love it.
And you're so right.
You know what we have toforgive ourselves for being
human.
We're going to have thosemoments.
I have learned that I will givemyself permission to have my
temper tantrum for about 20minutes get it out of my system
and then at the end of the 20minutes it's like okay, jen, get
it together, what is your nextmove?
(48:59):
We really do have to allowourselves that moment.
Sure, things are going to hitthe fan, it just happens.
But I really appreciate youunderscoring the importance of
intentionality.
And it is a choice every singleday, and sometimes it's a
(49:20):
difficult choice to get out ofthe bed some days.
But you're right.
So you take it for what it is,forgive yourself if you have a
bad day, and then how am I goingto be better tomorrow?
I think that's a fantastic wayto move about life.
Speaker 1 (49:36):
Yeah, I do my best.
Speaker 2 (49:39):
I'm not perfect, but I try, that's right, none of us
are.
Speaker 1 (49:43):
I say I'm an evangelist for the good of life,
so I'm hoping I'm justinspiring enough people to say,
hey, maybe I can get up tomorrowand try to be better than I was
today.
If I can do that for one person, then this was all worth it.
Speaker 2 (50:00):
I think that is the perfect way to end this show.
I don't have anything else toadd to that, because that was so
well said.
Yes, except for I agree.
Well, kendall, it has been sucha pleasure having this
conversation with you.
Thank you so much for wantingto be on the show and for
(50:20):
sharing with us the book thatyou've written some of your life
stories.
It's been a real pleasure.
I've truly enjoyed thisconversation.
Speaker 1 (50:29):
I have too.
Thank you so much for having me.
I appreciate it.
Speaker 2 (50:33):
How can we get in touch with you?
Speaker 1 (50:34):
Well, of course, on Facebook, I've got an author's
page out there.
Linkedin, I've got a page, butalso you can go to the good or
life groupcom and there's acontact form on there.
If you want to talk, we'll talkand I'll listen and we'll see
where that takes us.
If you want me to come speak toa group, you can do it.
You can contact me throughthere.
(50:55):
I've tried to make it easybecause I want people to be able
to get me and I want to be ableto talk and just express these
ideas.
I think it's good for our worldtoday.
I hope that more people canincorporate it in their lives.
Speaker 2 (51:08):
That's right.
All right, I'll make sure thatthat link is in the show notes,
so check it out, everybody.
All right, I hope you enjoyedtoday's episode.
I know I did.
Once again, I want to thank youfor being a guest on the show
and everybody who's listening.
I hope you have a wonderfulrest of your day.
All right, y'all take care now.
Bye.
(51:29):
Thanks for listening.
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