February 28, 2024 • 64 mins
Note: This episode was recorded at the start of the school year so our conversation about back to school might confuse you a bit. Keep listening! The information you'll hear in this episode is relevant no matter the time of year.
Join me on a journey through the emotional highs and lows that come with raising children and figuring out how to best communicate with them. Today, we sit down with child behavior specialist Laura Reardon to unpack the critical role emotional regulation plays in parenting. From the classroom to the boardroom, these skills are fundamental to our children's success, and we're diving into Laura's insights on nurturing them effectively.
Parenting is no easy feat, especially when faced with the storm of emotions that can arise in our little ones. In our second segment, we focus on the essential practice of self-care for parents. If you've ever struggled to keep your cool amid the chaos, you'll find solace and strategies here. We tackle tough topics like sleep, nutrition, and the nuances of self-compassion when life throws your self-care routine out the window. Laura and I explore how taking care of our basic needs isn't just good for us—it's a cornerstone in supporting our children's emotional landscapes.
Lastly, we confront the real talk of behavioral challenges, from tantrums to testing boundaries. This conversation is an honest look at the unique landscapes of our children's emotions and the importance of respecting their individuality, particularly for those with sensory sensitivities or attention-related diagnoses. Laura shares compassionate strategies for managing challenging behaviors, emphasizing the power of co-regulation. Through personal tales and professional expertise, we lay out an empathetic blueprint for guiding children toward managing their emotions, ensuring that parents feel equipped to handle whatever the day may bring.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 2 (00:07):
Welcome to the Communication 24-7 podcast,
where we communicate about howwe communicate.
I'm your host, jennifer Furlong, as you all know.
(00:29):
This is where we communicateabout how we communicate.
I got to tell you this is goingto be a fantastic episode.
I woke up this morning and, justlike many of you, I get to my
phone and I look at my Facebookfeed and I realize that it's
(00:50):
just full of back-to-schoolpictures.
All of my friends.
Now my own kids are grown.
My son is 26, my daughter is 25.
These days are long gone for me,but I couldn't help but to feel
a little nostalgic for thosedays.
I have friends who have kidswho are in elementary school,
(01:10):
but then the ones that reallystuck out to me were the ones
that were posting the picturesof this is so-and-so's first day
of middle school or first dayof high school.
Oh man, just so many memoriescame flooding back about how
awesome those years are and howexhausting those years are, how
(01:33):
challenging those years are,even as fulfilling as they are.
There are a lot of experiencethat we go through with raising
children.
That's why I am so incrediblyhappy that we have a child
behavior specialist in the housetoday.
Laura Reardon, thank you somuch for being here with us.
(01:55):
This is going to be a fantasticconversation, especially now
that we're back to school.
I think a lot of people aregoing to pay attention to this
one.
Speaker 1 (02:03):
Hi, jen.
Thank you so much for having meon your podcast.
I'm thrilled to be here.
I love the idea of embracingthe timing of the year because I
so empathize as well withparents who have children.
Starting the start of school issuch a momentous time of year,
I think, for all of us, but inparticular for our parents with
(02:27):
children.
As you referenced, it's ourparents with children going to
their first day of preschool,all the way to really parents
with children going to theirfirst day of college.
All of those days are big.
Speaker 2 (02:43):
Yes, I just remember every single one of those, the
emotions that just come withthat, from my son, who is my
oldest.
I remember very distinctly hisfirst day at kindergarten
walking him we lived in Virginiaat this time and walking him to
the front of the neighborhoodwhere the school bus would pick
(03:05):
them up and watching him withhis little book bag and getting
onto that school bus it'sforward to the first time,
helping him load things into thecar to go to college.
You're absolutely right, thoseemotions never go away.
To be honest with you, eventhough he and my daughter who I,
(03:27):
had the exact same emotionswith her from kindergarten all
the way to packing her up to goto college, even though they're
adults now, those same feelingsnever go away.
I think, as a parent, you justhave to just strap yourself in
and realize that this emotionalroller coaster, you ain't
getting off of this ride.
Speaker 1 (03:49):
That's so funny.
I've never heard it put thatway, but I'm going to remember
that you don't get off this ride.
Speaker 2 (03:58):
Yeah, it ain't happening Something else.
I know that I have a lot oflisteners who are also teachers.
I'm sure that they will alsoappreciate this conversation
because, being in the classroom,they spend so much time with
our children.
The things that we will talkabout today in our conversation,
(04:20):
I think they will find helpfulas well.
Let's dive right on in.
Why don't you just, for ourlisteners, introduce yourself?
What's your origin story?
How did you become a childbehavior therapist?
Why did you specifically decideto focus on emotional
(04:42):
regulation?
Because that's really whatwe're going to focus on today.
Speaker 1 (04:45):
Yes, emotional regulation.
I was first introduced to theconcept of emotional regulation
when I was in college at NorthEastern University as a
psychology major.
That's when I began to learnabout emotional regulation, what
it is, and the power that ithas to improve our personal
(05:06):
relationships, to improve ourperformance at work and even to
benefit our overall well-beingand health.
When I first graduated fromcollege, for about 10 years I
worked in human resources and Iwas able to bring my passion for
emotional regulation andexpress it through that way.
(05:29):
When I had children, I notunexpectedly became passionate
about teaching the skills ofemotional regulation to my
children, because I understoodand was excited about the power
of them.
It's not really that skill thatthey teach in school.
I really embraced the idea ofteaching it in my home.
(05:52):
It turned out that my job as amom was much more triggering
than my job as a human resourcesgeneralist.
It turns out that I learnedthat the skills, the tools that
were taught in the books that weread in the classes that we
(06:13):
went to, especially at that time, the tools of consequences and
rewards, ignoring unwantedbehaviors, or even, as the years
went along, the idea ofteaching common skills and
expecting our child to be ableto utilize those the next time.
None of these skills actuallybuilt emotional regulation in
(06:34):
our child.
I wanted to learn more andlearn better ways.
This is what began my journey,when I started with getting
certified as a child behaviorspecialist and led to becoming
trained as an emotion coach, achild psychology coach and oh
(06:55):
excuse me a child anxiety coachand also a parent coach.
That was the journey that ledme to the work that I do today,
which is I work as an emotionalregulation coach and I help
parents respond to the bigemotions and challenging
behaviors in their home in a newway, in a way that builds the
(07:17):
skills of emotional regulation.
Speaker 2 (07:19):
I am so glad to hear you talk about this in terms of
skills and building those skills.
It's one of the things that Irepeat over and over again.
As a communication specialist,I go in and I help people learn
how to communicate moreeffectively with one another.
One area that we do focus on,of course, is emotions and just
(07:43):
focusing on.
Take a moment and think abouthow your own emotions are
impacting your ability tocommunicate effectively.
Then, in turn, try to bemindful of how their emotions
are potentially impacting howthey are communicating
effectively with you.
You're right.
This isn't something thatyou're going to listen to.
(08:04):
This one podcast, this oneepisode and then, all of a
sudden, you're going to be anexpert in this area and all of
your conversations with everyoneyou know they're going to go
completely smoothly.
That's just not how this works.
I'm so glad to hear youemphasize that word skill and
that this is something that youreally do have to work at it.
(08:27):
This isn't the magic bulletthat you can just have and
everything is going to be fixedautomatically.
I think that is such animportant point to make that,
yeah, this is something that iscontinuous and if you mess up,
it's okay.
Speaker 1 (08:47):
For sure.
That's the foundation of what Iteach, really.
But I just want to add, too, toyour comment that it's so
necessary for us to get thattraining from people like you,
because for most of us, we werenot raised in homes in which we
were taught the skills ofemotional regulation.
Most of us arrive to ourrelationships, our families, our
(09:11):
jobs not having these skills.
It's really important that weget that training and that we
start building our skills.
The good news is, emotionalregulation is our skills that we
can all learn at, and it'snever too late and at any time.
We all have the capacity toimprove our ability to regulate
(09:35):
our emotions.
That's the good news.
I feel inspired to respond tosort of inspire a new movement,
a new generation of adults whowere raised in homes in which
they were taught the skills ofemotional regulation.
That's what I get reallyexcited about.
Speaker 2 (09:56):
Yeah, that is.
I think that's something thatis so needed, especially, you
know, I see so many studies outthe impact of online, you know,
the social media platforms.
Digital literacy is a hugething that I am very passionate
about, you know, just helpingkids learn how the things that
they are consuming, all theinformation they're consuming,
(10:19):
does have an impact on not onlyhow they view the world but how
they interact with the worldaround them.
So I think teaching these,these skills to them is so
incredibly important, especiallyfor today's youth, who they're
having to deal with a lot ofthings that I don't think.
Well, not that I don't thinkthat I know at least I didn't
(10:41):
have to deal with, you know when, when I was growing up as a
part of Generation X, Gen X youknow, I just turned 50 this year
and I think about how myfriends and I we didn't have
some of the pressures that theyoung ones have today.
As far as you know, being onlineand the tick tock and Instagram
and you know all of those otherthings that have such an
(11:03):
incredible impact on self imageand you know how, how they it
can just have a huge impact ontheir psyche all of those things
.
But you had mentioned parentsas well, with emotional
regulation and parents, and howit's not too late to learn how
to do this.
I'd like to focus on that for alittle bit because, if you know
(11:29):
it, if you're a young parentespecially, and you're like I
was, you didn't grow up in anenvironment where you were
taught these skills what aresome pieces of advice that you
can give?
Well, you know what?
Not even a young parent, maybean older parent, who they're
just now starting this journey,you know what what are those
(11:49):
conversations like that you havewith parents to just help them
begin this journey?
Speaker 1 (11:56):
Yeah, I mentioned a moment ago that it all starts
with compassion, and that's thefoundation of everything I teach
.
So that's where I like to start, and like to start with
creating compassion forourselves as parents and why
it's hard for us to regulate ourown emotions, and also
compassion for our children andunderstanding why it's hard for
them to regulate their emotions.
(12:17):
So a good starting place is avery simple definition of
emotions and what is the purposeof emotions?
And the purpose of emotions isto communicate information to us
about our needs.
So if we're experiencingcomfortable emotions, where our
needs are being met, and ifwe're experiencing uncomfortable
emotions, our needs are notbeing met.
(12:40):
My definition of emotionalregulation is the is the ability
to be with our feelings thecomfortable ones and the
uncomfortable ones and respondin ways that allow us to stay
with that feeling, be presentwith it and respond with
curiosity for, hmm, what is thisfeeling telling me about my
(13:01):
unmet need?
So that's a very logical andpractical way of responding to
our feelings in a reallyeffective way.
But the reason that's sochallenging for us as human
beings is because of the way ournervous system unconsciously
affects our behavior, and sowhat happens is that when we're
(13:24):
feeling comfortable emotions, weare emotionally, emotionally
regulated and we are able, toexcuse me, respond in those
effective ways.
But when we feel uncomfortableemotions, we can feel
overwhelmed by them and we canfeel scared.
And when we feel overwhelmedand scared, it can trigger our
(13:49):
fight, flight or freeze response.
And so what happens is, insteadof responding in effective ways
, we responded in effective waysbecause of our automatic and
unconscious reaction to theseemotions that we're experiencing
, and so, instead of being ableto stay present with our
(14:13):
emotions and respond withcuriosity to what our needs are
and how we can meet those ineffective ways, we respond by
lashing out or shutting down,and what happens is that,
instead of creating, you know,instead of getting our needs met
, we are responding in ways that, in fact, don't get our needs
met.
(14:33):
So that's why it makes sensethat managing our emotions are
so challenging, even as adultswho have a fully developed brain
.
Again, as adults, we can alsohave additional compassion for
ourselves by acknowledging thatmany of us were raised in homes
in which emotional regulationwas not taught, and so that
makes it really challenging.
(14:54):
And what makes it reallychallenging for our kids is the
part of our brain that helps usto regulate our emotions is the
prefrontal cortex, and that isnot.
That doesn't even really beginto develop until age four or
five, and it's not fullydeveloped until we're closer to
age 30.
And so it develops slowly overa long period of time.
(15:17):
And so, for all of thesereasons again, we can start with
from that place of compassionfor why responding to our
emotions in effective ways isreally challenging.
Speaker 2 (15:29):
That you know.
There's so much in what youjust said and I know a lot of
the listeners are going to havea sigh of relief.
No, okay so there you'retelling me there's nothing wrong
with me, absolutely normal thatI'm having.
You know this, you knowresponse.
Speaker 1 (15:47):
Yeah, human beings that evolved with the primary
goal of keeping ourselves safe.
Speaker 2 (15:52):
Yeah, yeah, it totally makes sense.
You know, and you're right thatthat logical part of the brain
because I've been there and Istill get there to this day you
know that something happens andyou get triggered by it and it's
really really easy to justimmediately have that response.
So how do you take?
(16:13):
What is that first step thatyou can take?
Now?
I know what, what I havelearned to do.
You know when, when I'm havinga difficult time, I'm having a
difficult conversation, or maybesomeone says something that I
begin to cringe because they'resaying something.
You know, I've learned a coupleof things that I can do.
You know, kind of step away fora moment in, in kind of gather
(16:36):
my thoughts and, before Irespond, I don't react to things
.
I respond to things now, butwhat are some of the actions or
tools?
Or you know someone who is nowrecognizing okay, I get it now.
This is pretty normal.
I'm not alone in this.
(16:56):
I'm still reacting to things inways that are making it worse
and not making it better.
What, what can they do?
Speaker 1 (17:06):
you know, to begin this, Well, the first step is,
once we have that understandingand compassion, the next step is
to recognize how ourenvironment can set us up for
success or set us up for failure, in regulating our emotions.
So, for example, when we're notgetting enough sleep or proper
(17:28):
nutrition, or hydration, ormovement or connection or all of
these things, it leads tooverwhelm, and it leads to
something that, if we wereoperating at full capacity,
would not feel overwhelming.
But when we're not operating atfull capacity, it does feel
overwhelming, and so we're muchquicker to be triggered into our
(17:51):
fight-fight or freeze responsewhen our core needs are not
being met.
Now, as parents, this is sochallenging and, again, so much
compassion, because we are oftenin these years in survival mode
, and so I know that I alwaysshare the story that when I was
a parent of young children and Ididn't have this awareness, I
(18:15):
didn't have this understandingof how our well-being supported
our emotional regulation, and soI was that parent who wore that
badge of honor for not meetingmy needs and always putting my
own children's needs as numberone.
I just didn't know better.
I was doing the best I could inthat moment, and now for
(18:35):
today's generation, in many waysit's gone to the opposite end
of the spectrum, because they'rehearing these messages and now
they're understanding theimportance of, you know, meeting
their needs as a importantcomponent of being able to act
as the best parent they can andto support their emotional
regulation.
And it can feel like just onemore thing on their to-do list
(18:59):
when they're already in survivalmode and just barely getting
through the day.
Now, of course, everyone'sindividual circumstances are
different and for some of us, wehave the ability to create
places to, you know, to meet ourwell-being, to support our
well-being, more easily thanothers, and so I always say, if
(19:20):
the only self-care that you canprovide yourself in a day is
compassion, then that is reallyvaluable.
You know, at the end of the day, when our head hits the pillow
and we all do this oh, it was onmy to-do list to meditate.
It was on my to-do list to getout and go for a walk, it was on
(19:40):
my to-do list to do this, andwe somehow get through the day
and everything else happenedexcept those things.
We can go to compassion.
You know, I did my best today,and doing our best is always
good enough.
Speaker 2 (19:55):
And you know, listening to you say that it
just makes me think of, eventhough I don't have kids, you
know, in the home anymore, it'seasy for me to still fall into
that.
Oh, I'm meant to go for thatwalk, oh, I meant to do that, I
meant to do it.
You're right, it's so easy tofall into that trap and to just
take a moment and say I did thebest I could today with, with
(20:19):
what I had.
I did the best I could todaywith you know, everything that
was going on.
That does go a long way.
You know, I'm still learning topractice that self-compassion
because, you're right, you know,we fill our day with all of the
things and sometimes thatself-care just seems like that's
just one more thing that I'veput on myself and now I'm
(20:42):
feeling the pressure to get itdone and it's doing the opposite
of what we were hoping it woulddo as far as how we're feeling.
You know, in that moment intime, I think if I had known
then what I know now regardingthis, I probably would have had.
You know, when my son anddaughter were younger, our
mornings probably would havegone a lot smoother.
(21:04):
You know, with the, you knowthe whole everything was just.
Some mornings it was just.
It seemed like it was out ofcontrol, and that made me think
of something that you, just, youknow, you said previously about
.
Are you getting enough sleep?
You know, are you eatinghealthy?
Are you getting enough water?
(21:25):
You know, all of these basicthings that contribute to your
well-being.
You know, it's not just aboutmaking time to go for a walk or,
you know, just shoving one morething into your day, but, you
know, even just looking at yoursleep schedule which I know can
be difficult, but it makesperfect sense, you know are you
(21:45):
able to actually handle thiseffectively if you are operating
on minimal sleep, you know, andyou wake up grouchy, of course,
you're probably not going tohave a good morning when that
happens.
So think about the kids, youknow, if they're not sleeping
well.
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Speaker 1 (22:49):
And you lead to the next step, which is, you know,
then we can look at our theenvironment.
You know our child'senvironment and we can become
curious about are their needsbeing met?
You know for and every child isdifferent and you know your
child best.
But we all need places fordowntime and for children that
(23:14):
can really look like play,especially for our very young
children.
And play creating unstructuredplaytime not the going to art
class, not the going to sports.
Unstructured playtime is one ofthe most important things that
we can be sure to create spacefor in our child's day, because
(23:34):
that does so many importantthings, including helping them
to work things out that havebeen going on for them, and it
also supports the development ofthe prefrontal cortex.
And so we want to look atthings like play, like for
ourselves.
We want to look at things liketheir sleep.
That's probably the number onething that I'll ask a parent
(23:57):
about when we first talk andthey're experiencing a challenge
in their home is what doessleep look like for your child
and how much sleep are theygetting?
Because that's so such animportant foundation to our
ability to regulate our emotions.
You know, for some of our kidsthey really like to be on the go
, go go.
(24:17):
And as a culture, as parents,we are often, you know, very
scheduled in terms of, you know,the activities going on after
school.
So, again, we just want to havean awareness of creating
balance for structured time aswell as unstructured time.
You know, there's endless waysthat we can support their
(24:40):
environment.
Even the way that wecommunicate with them is a way
that we can create anenvironment that supports their
well being.
There's so many effective waysthat we can communicate with our
child.
You know, for example, when wewant them to do all those simple
things, especially for ouryoung children put on your shoes
, wash your hands, get in thecar.
(25:00):
You know, this can be such adaily challenge for parents, but
when we learn some creativeways to communicate that set us
all up for success.
For example, children areparticularly good at doing what
they're supposed to do, butthey're so good at having fun.
And so, when we can, you know,when we have the capacity and we
(25:21):
don't always have the capacity,but when we have the capacity
and we can turn something into agame, you know like you know
something silly, like, if youneed them to get in that car
seat, oh, don't get in your carseat right now, because you know
our invisible friend Joey is inthere and we don't want to sit
on Joey.
So just don't get in your carseat right now.
(25:41):
You know again, just silly, youknow your kid, you know what's
going to make them laugh.
Or, our kids also love to knowthe answers to questions, so we
can instead of turn a requestinto a question oh, what is it
that we put on next, you know.
Or again, silliness, you know.
Oh, time to put your shoes onyour head.
(26:03):
And again, all of these thingsseem so silly to us, but they
are so effective with ourchildren and they love it and it
just it turns.
It just really supportscooperation.
So when we learn effective waysto communicate with our
children, it can really alsosupport and set everybody up for
success in regulating theiremotions.
Speaker 2 (26:24):
Yeah, I love that.
You know you're really talkingabout getting on their level and
trying to see it through theireyes and think about, in this
moment, what is going to makethis a little more fun for them.
Or you know, how can I get themto understand this in a certain
way and you're allowed to havefun with it.
I think sometimes, like yousaid earlier, we're in survival
(26:46):
mode and sometimes when we'restuck in that survival mode, we
forget to laugh.
We forget that if little Joeywants to wear cowboy boots with
his shorts, you know, instead ofhis tennis shoes, it's not the
end of the world.
Okay, so he's wearing cowboyboots with his shorts, you know
(27:10):
that's perfectly fine.
I think sometimes maybe we doget stuck in that cycle of just
wanting everything to be the waywe think it is supposed to be
or the way it should be, and welose sight of just going on this
ride and having fun with it and, yeah, not taking it too
(27:33):
seriously all the time.
Do you run into parents whohave kind of lost sight of that
side of things?
Speaker 1 (27:39):
Oh, I think we all lose sight of that side
Absolutely.
How could we not in the day today that we need to?
You know the routines that weneed to get through every day?
You know, I still have thismemory and I don't know why I
remember this.
But when I had my second child,I remember saying to my husband
oh my gosh, when we need to goupstairs I will just be able to
(28:05):
pick her up and walk up thestairs.
And it reminds me of howchallenging it could be to get
my child to get up the stairs.
Yep, I remember those days too,and it reminds me of another fun
tip, because a lot of times weuse, you know, racing as another
strategy to, you know, makesomething fun and engage our
(28:29):
child in a way that gets theirattention.
But that can be tricky becauseif it turns into siblings racing
each other and then it getsthem up the stairs.
But by the time they're up thestairs they're then in a fight
because one person won and oneperson lost.
So another trick we can usethere is have them race us and
have us be the person that theybeat, and then it makes them a
(28:50):
team against me and then thatjust kind of creates all good,
because they get to feel likethey won and then they're
connecting over they both wonand there's no bad guy who
doesn't want to be able to beattheir parents at something Right
?
Speaker 2 (29:04):
I do remember, you know, just you sharing that
story about going up the stairs.
It reminded me one time many,many years ago I don't even
remember what it was that my sonwas mad at me about something
and he he was maybe five yearsold at the time and I remember
he was standing at the bottom ofthe stairs and I told him to go
(29:24):
upstairs and he's like hestarts just going up the stairs,
you know, stopping his littlefeet, and he stops halfway up
and looks at me I don't like youvery much.
And then he turns around andkeeps walking up the stairs and
I had to take a moment to stopmyself from laughing out loud
because it was so funny, the way.
(29:47):
I mean and I think in hislittle brain he truly meant it
at that time because I wasmaking him do something that he
didn't want to do.
I'm sure it was probably bedtimeor something like that, but you
know, I just think that's a funmemory for me because it does
remind me that you know, when Italk to younger parents, that
(30:08):
you know they're going to saythings and they're not even
going to remember it the nextday.
So try your best to not take ittoo seriously, too much to
heart.
You know my son telling me Idon't like you very much.
You know, by the next day hedidn't remember it, he was over
it, and so you know, I thinkthat's an important lesson that
(30:30):
I had learned, just to, yeah, beable to laugh at some of those
things, laugh some of thosethings off, because he was just
in the moment and he got over it.
Speaker 1 (30:40):
He ended up getting over it.
Actually such a fantasticexample to go to.
Then what is the next step?
And that's well, how do werespond in the moment?
You know, when our child is andthat was, you know, that to me
sounds like a very, you know,young child.
Good, you know, just kind of acute thing we can all laugh at.
But take that and go, take itto the next level.
(31:02):
And our child is looking at usand saying I hate you and it's,
and it's hurtful, or our childis hitting, whether it's hitting
us or hitting their sibling, orhitting a friend.
You know when these thingshappen, or when we're asking our
child to do that thing andthey're not doing that thing and
we don't have the capacity forhumor in that moment and you
(31:23):
know it turns into a moment ofconflict.
Yeah, you know, it's in thosemoments of big emotions
triggering those big behaviorsthat we want to consider
responding in a new way.
In those moments again, ourtraditional strategies being
(31:43):
consequences and rewards.
And what's tricky aboutconsequences and rewards and why
they're not the most effectiveway to respond in those moments
is because, for one thingespecially when we're thinking
about rewards, but it really canapply to both.
It assumes an awful lot.
(32:04):
It assumes that our child hasthe capacity in that moment to
manage their emotions andrespond in effective ways.
And what we know is that,contrary to what we're often
taught, we're often receive themessage as parents that when our
children are behaving ininappropriate ways, they're
(32:24):
doing it's an intentionalbehavior and it's done to get
their way.
And it is true that if we havea child who, when they ask for
something and we say no orwhatever that particular
situation is, but then theyescalate and escalate and then
we acquiesce and we just need itto go away and so we say, fine,
you can do that thing or havethat thing, then yes, we are
(32:46):
training our child to escalateand intentionally escalate for
the purpose of getting their way.
That acknowledged, in mostcases, when our children are
escalating, it's because they'rein that unconscious and
automatic fight or freezeresponse that they do not yet
(33:06):
have the brain development, theskills or potentially the
capacity in that moment do us onin more effective ways.
And so when we view behaviorthrough that lens, we understand
that in fact, consequences andrewards are not particularly
effective because, again, itassumes that it's intentional
behavior and often it's not.
(33:27):
And also, even when it iseffective, a challenge is that
the consequence and the rewardneeds to keep getting bigger and
bigger and bigger, and so, bythe time our kids have arrived
to between zine teens, we nolonger have effective skills for
managing emotions and behaviorin our home, and so that's
(33:49):
something to be aware of as well.
Another tool that we're oftentaught to use is ignoring
unwanted behavior, and thereason that that's not the most
effective choice is because whathappens is that, again, if
we're looking at behaviorthrough the lens of, it's a
reaction to being in a threatresponse, and if we understand
(34:11):
that, as mammals, it's ourinstinct, when we feel
overwhelmed or afraid, to thenretreat back to and connect with
that person, that adult, thatcaregiver who we feel safe with,
then we understand that if werespond by ignoring or we could
put timeouts in that category towe understand that by
(34:34):
responding in that way, whatwe're doing is essentially
escalating the threat response,essentially adding fuel to the
fire of whatever the behavior islashing out or shutting down.
That's the reason that that'snot the most effective response.
And then what?
The response that I did, whichI thought was really brilliant
at the time, and we hear a lotabout it these days, which is
(34:56):
teaching calming skills.
The trick there is that excuseme, at least for myself, and I
think a lot of other parentsexperience this is that we
respond in these ways in whichwe're calm and then we connect
with our child at a later timeand we teach them these calming
(35:18):
skills and then we expect thatwe're setting them up for
success in the next time.
Instead of lashing out orshutting down, they're going to
use this calming skill andeverything's going to be
wonderful.
And then, of course, they don't,because they don't have the
brain capacity yet to be able topause, have this awareness that
they're in a threat responseand consider a different tool
and put this tool into place.
(35:39):
They cannot respond in that wayuntil emotional regulation has
developed in their brain, and sowhat happens is we end up
feeling frustrated and wonderingwhat's wrong with me or what's
wrong with my child, and ourchildren end up feeling helpless
and shamed because we have thisexpectation and they're not
(35:59):
able to meet it.
So, that said, we all use allthree of those tools, and you
could also add in yelling.
We all yell sometimes.
We all use these toolssometimes and we're all probably
always going to use these toolssometimes, and that's perfectly
okay, because all we can doagain is our best in that moment
.
So, again, it's all rooted incompassion.
(36:21):
But if we can have thisawareness that when we have the
capacity, there is a moreeffective tool available to us,
a tool that is the mosteffective way to respond to big
emotions and big behaviors in away that supports the
development of emotionalregulation, and that's called co
regulation.
(36:42):
So co regulation is respondingto big emotions and big
behaviors by recognizing thatwhat's happening is our child is
dysregulated, rather than ourchild is purposefully
misbehaving, and responding in away that helps them feel
(37:04):
physically and emotionally safeenough to return to emotional
regulation.
And so when we do that, when weare in that that's a very high
level definition we canabsolutely talk about how we
actually apply that inindividual circumstances, how we
respond in a way that helps ourchild feel safe enough to
return to emotional regulation.
(37:26):
But when we respond in that way, the reason it's effective is
because three important thingshappen.
One is they return toregulation.
And when we're regulated, wehave, we are biologically
capable of acting in the waysthat we want our children to act
.
They're capable of listening andlearning and being flexible and
(37:50):
problem solving, and when werespond in that way over and
over again, their brain wires toassociate uncomfortable
emotions with feeling safe, andso there.
So we see less behavior issues,we see improved social skills
(38:12):
and we raise adults who areemotionally regulated rather
than emotionally reactive.
Third, they're experiencingembodied learning, going back to
teaching calming skills, andthere's nothing bad about
teaching calming skills, unlessyou're expecting them to have
the capacity to use that thevery next time.
(38:34):
But embodied learning is aneven more effective way to teach
calming skills, because what'shappening is they're learning
what it feels like in their bodyto go from feeling dysregulated
to regulated, and so that is,in fact, the most effective way
for them to learn how to calmthemselves in the future.
(38:58):
And that's so important for usto understand, because, as a
culture, we're so focused onteaching independence and we're
worried that if we help ourchild calm themselves, that they
will be dependent on us to helpthem calm themselves forever.
That was my worry.
That's why I expected my childto be able to calm themselves.
(39:20):
I didn't understand thatco-regulation was in fact, a
prerequisite to be able toself-regulate and be emotionally
regulated on their own.
Speaker 2 (39:33):
It can be so challenging earlier you had
mentioned if you have a childwho tends to lash out or back,
and that's an area.
I know a lot of parents or eventeachers who are in a classroom
who witness this type ofbehavior, some interruption that
happens in class.
I never had that experiencewith my kids, you know, like
(39:56):
hitting me back or hitting ateacher or anything like that,
picking fights, and so I'm notquite sure.
You know, when I witnesssomething like this happening
with other parents or I see ithappening, you know, in the
school system I don't reallyknow what to say to them.
(40:17):
You know, in that moment to, Iguess you know, kind of help
them figure out how to get tothe stage where that you're
talking about.
You know, helping their childlearn how to, I guess, along the
way, figure out how toself-regulate.
It's a very difficult thing todo.
(40:37):
Do you think that some childrenare just have a natural more
calm disposition than otherchildren?
You know are some just a littlemore challenging, and so those
parents are just going to haveto work a little harder, you
know, to develop these skillsthan other parents might.
You know what, what, what haveyou witnessed in those different
(41:02):
types of situations, withchildren who tend to have a
little more I don't want to usethe word desire, but the
response.
The reaction tends to be alittle more violent, you know,
than other kids.
Speaker 1 (41:14):
Yeah, that's such an important point that you bring
up.
For some of us, you know, wehave children.
For those of us who have morethan one child, oftentimes one
of those children might just benaturally more calm, more
regulated than another child whomight be more quick to quick to
(41:35):
be quick to go to reactive, andso what happens is that it's
all about individual differences, and this is what you know.
We talk a lot about inclusionthese days, and this is how
inclusion can show up inparenting is understanding
individual differences in ourchildren.
So, for example, for ourchildren who are born as deeply
(41:58):
feeling children or who havesensory sensitivities and so
they're particularly reactive tosounds or smells or how things
feel, for our children who havea diagnosis of ADHD or a SD and
a wide variety of otherindividual differences, so these
(42:18):
kids feel things more deeplyand so and, and, and they have
fight, fight or freeze responsesthat get triggered more easily.
And so it's so easy for us, asparents who have that
emotionally regulated child, tolook at the reactive child and
think, oh my gosh, what's wrongwith that parent or what's wrong
(42:41):
with that child.
And it brings us back toinclusion, it brings us back to
understanding.
We're all different and we'reall doing our best.
And so, in fact, for that childfor whom emotional regulation
comes more easily In fact it'sthe child who's looking as
(43:02):
though they have there a bad kidI sit put that in quotation
marks because I don't mean thatat all, but that.
But some of us can.
If we don't have this educationand we're not looking through
behavior through this lens, wecan respond in judgmental ways.
In fact, that child is working100 times harder at regulating
(43:23):
their emotions than than thechild who appears to be doing
such a good job with it.
So, instead of, you know,praising that child to stay and
come, for whom it comes so darneasily, and in fact celebrate
that child for whom it is sochallenging, so how, how co
regulation would look in thatmoment of a child who is hitting
(43:44):
is again, we want to remindourselves of our goal.
We want to pause and remindourselves that this child is in
a threat state right now.
They are feeling overwhelmed orthey are feeling afraid and
they don't yet have the capacity, brain development skills or
potentially, the capacity inthat moment, to respond in a
(44:05):
more effective.
Pause, and we remind ourselvesof that, it brings to us to a
very different space and so wecan start there in recognizing
challenging behavior asdysregulation in most cases.
And then the second piece of coregulation is to respond in
(44:26):
ways that help the child feelphysically and emotionally safe
enough to return to regulation,because we can't teach when
they're dysregulated.
And when we are in a fight,flight or freeze state, our
brain is fully prioritizing allcapacities that are about
survival.
And so things like our heartrate increases and are you know,
(44:51):
because, because our bloodblood starts flowing faster so
that we can react more quickly,our muscles tense, we begin to
excuse me, begin to sweat,because that's our automatic air
conditioning system.
All of these things areprioritized in our brain and our
body that are supportingsurvival.
The thing that does not supportsurvival is our logical brain
(45:12):
or prefrontal cortex.
That is not a time for us to bethinking through something
thoughtfully and reflecting.
This is a time for automaticinstincts.
So it is very hard to accessour thinking brain in that
moment.
So again, our child isbiologically incapable of, you
know, oftentimes hearing in thatmoment, certainly not listening
, learning, or being calm orflexible or problem solving.
(45:34):
So we can just take thatexpectation off the table until
we're able to support them.
And returning to regulation,which is why it's our number one
goal.
We can't do anything.
We can't do anything effectiveuntil we get them back to
regulation.
It's the only effective thingto do in that moment, because
nothing good is going to happenuntil we get them back to a
regulated state.
(45:55):
So in that moment, to providephysical safety, I would say I
won't let you.
And whatever needed to be donein that moment, using as little
force as necessary, whether it'sjust gently holding their arms
back or standing up intochildren or whatever needs to be
done again, using as littleforce as necessary, but not
(46:18):
letting the child hit or hurtthemselves or someone else in
that is, provides the physicalsafety I won't you.
And then doing what needs to bedone, and then I would say what
one thing you could do is saysomething like I'm right here
with you.
Until you're able to controlyour body, I'm right here with
(46:41):
you.
That might help one child.
But the really important thingto understand about co
regulation is that what helpsone child feel safe is very
different than what helpsanother child feel safe.
So for some of us, words can bevery comforting.
You're not alone in this.
(47:02):
Again, as mammals, we seeksafety through being with a safe
caregiver.
I won't let you.
I'm right here with you.
You know that creates thatemotional and physical safety.
Now for words might be reallytriggering, and the best thing
to do in that moment is toprovide that compassion non
(47:23):
verbally, through a soft gaze inyour eye, through body language
, things like that.
For other kids, what theyreally need in that moment is
movement, and so it's reallytricky in for teachers.
I don't pretend to be an expertin the classroom, because it's
so much different in terms ofhow you would manage this in the
(47:43):
classroom than at home.
It might be a lot easier to saylet's go out to the playground,
let's get outside.
Changing scenery, gettingoutside in nature, movement
these are all things that reallyhelp a child regulate.
Speaker 2 (48:00):
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Speaker 1 (48:48):
My mom was a teacher all her life and so I have such
tremendous respect for teachersand the classroom and I think
it's so valuable for them toconsider behavior through this
lens and also so challenging forthem to figure out ways that
they can implement these newways in a classroom.
There are ways that they can doit, but it can be a different
(49:12):
challenge than the way we do itin a home.
Speaker 2 (49:15):
Oh yeah, you know, like you had mentioned, just
recognizing in this emotionalstate, maybe the child does need
to just be able to go outsideon the playground and just run
it out, you know, or whatever itis that you just kind of get
that out in that moment in timebecause they're just not able to
be able to self-regulate.
But it can be challengingbecause if you're the only
(49:35):
teacher in the classroom andyou've got a classroom full of
like 40, 50 kids in some cases,because they're just so
overpopulated in the classroomsand in some of these school
systems, so really to be able tohave the support from the
school system itself, you know,and have a teacher assistant or
someone who's accessible, if youunderstand that you have a
(49:57):
child who might need that extrastep to be able to learn this
then or to get to that state,that would really help that one
teacher out.
But they are just in adifficult position.
Speaker 1 (50:13):
Yeah yeah, they.
You know there's ways to getcreative in a classroom.
For example, those balls, thosebig balls that children can sit
on and bounce up and down,because, of course, in most
cases there wouldn't be theflexibility to allow that child
the opportunity to get outsideand run around the playground in
that particular moment.
And so a bouncy ball can helpfor some children.
(50:34):
They're feeling, really theirsenses are completely
overwhelmed.
Being in a classroom can bereally overwhelming.
You know, for some childrenwhat a beautiful experience all
these colors and posters andthings to look at, and for our
kids who have sensorysensitivities, particularly
visually, for example, that canbe a really overwhelming space.
(50:55):
And so when they're in a momentwhere they're something's
challenging and you know theircapacity is lower because
they're in this, really in thisspace that is challenging their
senses and ability to managethat, and so then something
happens and they're more easilytriggered.
We can create just like we canat home.
(51:16):
We can create quiet spaces inthe classroom and it's not about
, again, it's not about timeouts, and again, this can be tricky
for some students.
In a classroom they may have aone on one aid or an aid who
helps a variety of students, andthat aid could help in that
moment, but in an idealsituation and we don't live in
(51:38):
an ideal, perfect life so thatwe always again come back to
compassion and we just do ourbest in the moment but in an
ideal situation, just like athome, in the classroom.
It's not about sending our kidsto time out, but it could be
about saying would you like totake a break in a quiet space
and let's go together.
And then other things that canhelp children to regulate in the
(52:00):
moment are calming activitieslike coloring or reading a book.
Things like this can be calmingactivities that we can have set
up and ready to go in ourcalming spaces.
So again, the tricky thingabout emotional excuse me, the
tricky thing about co-regulationis that it really does require
(52:21):
us to experiment and get to knowour child, whether that child
is our student or whether thatchild is our child.
We need to get to know them asindividuals and what helps them
calm in that moment.
Speaker 2 (52:38):
You're just making me think of how, even with my own
children, as they grew older,you know earlier you had
mentioned, yeah, I mean, kidsare completely different.
They can grow up in the samehouse and have completely
different ways of responding tosituations.
And you know, emotionally andall of those things, my kids
were smaller.
My son was the one who wasconstantly on the go, bouncing
(53:01):
off the walls, you know, justnonstop motor running, and it
was just so incrediblychallenging being a mom of a
young boy.
He just wanted to get intoeverything and I, to this day I
can't believe he didn't breakany bones when he was going on
because he had like no, like noself-awareness of you just put
(53:22):
yourself in a very dangerousposition, climbing all the way
to the top of that tree.
And my daughter was the opposite, you know.
She just was very calm andself-spoken, and night and day.
But as they got older, they hitmiddle school, and it seemed
like their personalities, theirpersonalities just completely
(53:45):
switched.
You know she started goingthrough the hormonal changes,
you know emotional rollercoasterwas happening and then he
seemed to calm down and so bythe time, you know they were
teenagers.
It was like, wow, there waslike this flip that happened,
and so I think it's, you know,helpful the things that you have
(54:09):
said regarding taking a momentand recognizing what is
happening with your child andlook through that lens of
compassion, just because it ispossible for them to change Well
, they will change over time.
What might work when they werelittle kids as they get older
and the hormones are hitting andtheir challenges at school get
(54:32):
much different, they're probablygoing to react in different
ways, and so I think listeningto what you have talked about
today is so incredibly forparents.
Regardless of whatever stagetheir child is in, they're gonna
have to be able to take thatmoment and look at it through a
lens of compassion.
Are there any other tools thatyou would recommend for parents
(54:54):
as they're recognizing thatshift?
Speaker 1 (54:57):
Yes, and before I go on to that next piece, I would
just add that you're so right torecognize that this way of
responding to behavior issomething that can transition
from our very young children allthe way through to our
teenagers, and again it'slearning.
It just starts with thatviewing behavior through this
(55:21):
lens.
But let's say, our teenager orour tween walks into the room or
walks, comes in from school orwhatever it is, and just starts
speaking to us in a reallydisrespectful way.
Again, it's about holdingboundaries, together with in the
same way that we held thatboundary for the child who was
(55:44):
hitting.
It's about holding boundarieswhile also recognizing that that
child is not intentionallyacting badly, but just in a
really overwhelmed state wherethey don't the ability to
respond in a more effective way.
So we can respond by saying,hey, not okay to talk to me that
way, but I can see you had areally bad day.
(56:07):
What's going on?
How can I help?
You know and I even use thisexample with adults, with our,
you know, an example for how itcould look for ourselves as
adults, because it's somethingwe can apply to every stage of
our life and in fact, again, asmammals, although we do learn
how to self-regulate.
(56:28):
And we do have that capacity asgrownups because we're mammals
and, again, it's our instinct tobe with a safe person when we
feel overwhelmed or scared.
We benefit from co-regulationfor our entire lives.
We're really actually not meantto regulate alone.
It's again our culture thatreally creates that idea that we
should be able to do everythingindependently.
(56:51):
But an example would be is iflet's say you know this can
apply in any situation.
But I'll just use the exampleof I just got home from work and
my partner is with the childrenand has maybe let's actually do
it this way.
I'm gonna use an example of Iwas gonna do an example of a
(57:13):
working mom, but I'm gonna do anexample of a mom that's been
home all day with the kids.
Our husband walks in and wejust go from having kept it
together all day long acting asour best selves, acting as our
worst selves.
We are just our partner walkedin and we're just letting it all
out and they're seeing theworst of us.
(57:36):
Now it would be very fair andappropriate for our partner to
react by setting limits andsaying it's not okay to talk to
me that way and identifyingneeds.
I need you to communicate withme more effectively or what have
you.
But the point being is thatwhen we have the capacity to act
as our highest self which,again, we often do not, but we
(57:59):
have the capacity to act as ourhighest self our partner could
respond with co-regulation andlook at us with compassion in
their eyes and say wow, Iimagine you're exhausted and
you've had a long, hard day.
How can I help?
And they've set a limit, but ina way that is rooted in
compassion, like I see you'renot acting as your regular self,
(58:24):
so there must be somethinggoing on and I can imagine, and
I wanna, how can I help you?
Speaker 2 (58:30):
I can see that being a tool to use anywhere, like
even in the workplace.
You're so right.
Somebody comes in and they walkinto the office and they go off
on you about something.
And you're right.
I mean, it's a valuable tool tobe able to stay in the moment
and say, hey, it's not okay totalk to me that way, but I
(58:51):
recognize you're a littlestressed about something.
What's going on?
How can I help, instead of justimmediately reacting in a way
that, hey, and then it turnsinto this big argument, even in
the office, or like the exampleyou're using with the parents.
That's fantastic.
I mean, that's real life rightthere.
Speaker 1 (59:12):
Yeah, and that ties back to what you started with in
the beginning, when youacknowledged that you teach the
tool of helping people learn tocheck in with their own emotions
, but also to check in withother people's emotions.
Because, again, if we go back tothe definition of emotions and
if their emotions are intendedto communicate information about
(59:34):
our needs, when we respond ineffective ways, we can get our
needs met.
When we respond in effectiveways, we're not setting
ourselves up for getting ourneeds met, so that mom in that
moment didn't have the capacityto respond in an effective way,
so she's potentially settingherself up to not get her needs
met, because oftentimes whatwould happen is, instead of that
(59:55):
person being kind andcompassionate, is that instead
then they become reactive andinstead of getting the support
she needed, she would have thenescalated what was already an
exhausting situation to now anexhausting situation which she's
also fighting with her partner,and so that just kind of helps
us see how, in an ideal world,we wanna respond to our emotions
(01:00:16):
in effective ways so we can getour needs met.
But we live in a real world andso, with that in mind, we want
to have compassion for ourselvesand others and, when we can
offer co-regulation to our child, to our partner, to our
colleague.
That's a wonderful thing.
Speaker 2 (01:00:33):
Yeah, I gotta tell you that, what a fantastic way
to wrap this episode up.
I think we kind of went fullcircle.
What a fantastic journey youtook us through.
I mean.
So many tools, so many thingsto think about.
I think that anybody who'slistening to this episode right
now, I think they need tore-listen to it again and have
(01:00:56):
that notebook out and take downsome notes, because, as much as
I've been working in this fieldof communication for over 30
years now I learned so muchthrough this conversation, so I
am so incredibly thankful thatyou were willing to take your
time and spend this time with us.
You could be doing a thousandother things, but you chose to
(01:01:18):
be with us here today to sharethis information that is gonna
be so incredibly useful to somany people parents, teachers,
young adults, everyone acrossthe board.
Is there anything that anyfinal say that you would like to
share with the listeningaudience before we wrap it up?
Speaker 1 (01:01:41):
Yeah, I mean, I guess I would just say that if this
is something, if what you'rehearing resonates with you, then
the next step is to understandthat, in order to be able to
co-regulate in the moment, youneed to first regulate yourself
in the moment.
And so go to my website,laurareardandcoachingcom, and
(01:02:03):
download the cheat sheet for howto stay calm in the moment when
you feel like you're going tolose it, because that's gonna be
a challenge for all of us.
Speaker 2 (01:02:13):
Fantastic I'll make sure to put that link in the
show notes for everyone to beable to access that this has
been so impactful.
It really has Fantasticinformation, so incredibly
useful, and I think it bringshope.
Sometimes we get into somereally dark places.
We don't know what the nextmove is, and I think that's
(01:02:35):
probably the best thing abouthaving conversations like these
with experts like you is.
It gives the rest of us hopethat there is something that we
can work at to try to makethings just a little bit better.
Even if it's that one teeny,tiny little thing that can try
in that moment, it'll help tomake things better and that's a
(01:02:55):
good thing, something to be ableto look forward to and to hope.
Speaker 1 (01:02:59):
I hope so, I really hope so that people receive it
in this way.
I know it can feel overwhelmingto consider a new way of
responding, but I just reallyhope that, if not, if somebody
takes nothing else from thisconversation, if they bring with
them again that new lens fromwhich to look at our own
(01:03:22):
behavior through and to look atour children's behavior through,
that's enough to make a reallyimportant change.
Speaker 2 (01:03:29):
Fantastic.
All right, thanks again, laura,for spending your time with us.
Thank you for having me.
All right, everyone.
I hope you found this episodeuseful.
I know I did learn so much.
I thank you for spending yourtime with us today, because you
as well could be doing athousand other things besides
listening to this episode, so Ihope that you did find some
(01:03:53):
value in it, and I hope you alsohave a wonderful rest of your
day.
You all take care now bye.
Thanks for listening.
If you enjoyed this episode andyou'd like to help support the
podcast, please share it withothers, post about it on social
(01:04:14):
media or leave a rating and areview.
Welcome to the Communication 24-7 podcast,
where we communicate about howwe communicate.
I'm your host, jennifer Furlong, as you all know.
(00:29):
This is where we communicateabout how we communicate.
I got to tell you this is goingto be a fantastic episode.
I woke up this morning and, justlike many of you, I get to my
phone and I look at my Facebookfeed and I realize that it's
(00:50):
just full of back-to-schoolpictures.
All of my friends.
Now my own kids are grown.
My son is 26, my daughter is 25.
These days are long gone for me,but I couldn't help but to feel
a little nostalgic for thosedays.
I have friends who have kidswho are in elementary school,
(01:10):
but then the ones that reallystuck out to me were the ones
that were posting the picturesof this is so-and-so's first day
of middle school or first dayof high school.
Oh man, just so many memoriescame flooding back about how
awesome those years are and howexhausting those years are, how
(01:33):
challenging those years are,even as fulfilling as they are.
There are a lot of experiencethat we go through with raising
children.
That's why I am so incrediblyhappy that we have a child
behavior specialist in the housetoday.
Laura Reardon, thank you somuch for being here with us.
(01:55):
This is going to be a fantasticconversation, especially now
that we're back to school.
I think a lot of people aregoing to pay attention to this
one.
Speaker 1 (02:03):
Hi, jen.
Thank you so much for having meon your podcast.
I'm thrilled to be here.
I love the idea of embracingthe timing of the year because I
so empathize as well withparents who have children.
Starting the start of school issuch a momentous time of year,
I think, for all of us, but inparticular for our parents with
(02:27):
children.
As you referenced, it's ourparents with children going to
their first day of preschool,all the way to really parents
with children going to theirfirst day of college.
All of those days are big.
Speaker 2 (02:43):
Yes, I just remember every single one of those, the
emotions that just come withthat, from my son, who is my
oldest.
I remember very distinctly hisfirst day at kindergarten
walking him we lived in Virginiaat this time and walking him to
the front of the neighborhoodwhere the school bus would pick
(03:05):
them up and watching him withhis little book bag and getting
onto that school bus it'sforward to the first time,
helping him load things into thecar to go to college.
You're absolutely right, thoseemotions never go away.
To be honest with you, eventhough he and my daughter who I,
(03:27):
had the exact same emotionswith her from kindergarten all
the way to packing her up to goto college, even though they're
adults now, those same feelingsnever go away.
I think, as a parent, you justhave to just strap yourself in
and realize that this emotionalroller coaster, you ain't
getting off of this ride.
Speaker 1 (03:49):
That's so funny.
I've never heard it put thatway, but I'm going to remember
that you don't get off this ride.
Speaker 2 (03:58):
Yeah, it ain't happening Something else.
I know that I have a lot oflisteners who are also teachers.
I'm sure that they will alsoappreciate this conversation
because, being in the classroom,they spend so much time with
our children.
The things that we will talkabout today in our conversation,
(04:20):
I think they will find helpfulas well.
Let's dive right on in.
Why don't you just, for ourlisteners, introduce yourself?
What's your origin story?
How did you become a childbehavior therapist?
Why did you specifically decideto focus on emotional
(04:42):
regulation?
Because that's really whatwe're going to focus on today.
Speaker 1 (04:45):
Yes, emotional regulation.
I was first introduced to theconcept of emotional regulation
when I was in college at NorthEastern University as a
psychology major.
That's when I began to learnabout emotional regulation, what
it is, and the power that ithas to improve our personal
(05:06):
relationships, to improve ourperformance at work and even to
benefit our overall well-beingand health.
When I first graduated fromcollege, for about 10 years I
worked in human resources and Iwas able to bring my passion for
emotional regulation andexpress it through that way.
(05:29):
When I had children, I notunexpectedly became passionate
about teaching the skills ofemotional regulation to my
children, because I understoodand was excited about the power
of them.
It's not really that skill thatthey teach in school.
I really embraced the idea ofteaching it in my home.
(05:52):
It turned out that my job as amom was much more triggering
than my job as a human resourcesgeneralist.
It turns out that I learnedthat the skills, the tools that
were taught in the books that weread in the classes that we
(06:13):
went to, especially at that time, the tools of consequences and
rewards, ignoring unwantedbehaviors, or even, as the years
went along, the idea ofteaching common skills and
expecting our child to be ableto utilize those the next time.
None of these skills actuallybuilt emotional regulation in
(06:34):
our child.
I wanted to learn more andlearn better ways.
This is what began my journey,when I started with getting
certified as a child behaviorspecialist and led to becoming
trained as an emotion coach, achild psychology coach and oh
(06:55):
excuse me a child anxiety coachand also a parent coach.
That was the journey that ledme to the work that I do today,
which is I work as an emotionalregulation coach and I help
parents respond to the bigemotions and challenging
behaviors in their home in a newway, in a way that builds the
(07:17):
skills of emotional regulation.
Speaker 2 (07:19):
I am so glad to hear you talk about this in terms of
skills and building those skills.
It's one of the things that Irepeat over and over again.
As a communication specialist,I go in and I help people learn
how to communicate moreeffectively with one another.
One area that we do focus on,of course, is emotions and just
(07:43):
focusing on.
Take a moment and think abouthow your own emotions are
impacting your ability tocommunicate effectively.
Then, in turn, try to bemindful of how their emotions
are potentially impacting howthey are communicating
effectively with you.
You're right.
This isn't something thatyou're going to listen to.
(08:04):
This one podcast, this oneepisode and then, all of a
sudden, you're going to be anexpert in this area and all of
your conversations with everyoneyou know they're going to go
completely smoothly.
That's just not how this works.
I'm so glad to hear youemphasize that word skill and
that this is something that youreally do have to work at it.
(08:27):
This isn't the magic bulletthat you can just have and
everything is going to be fixedautomatically.
I think that is such animportant point to make that,
yeah, this is something that iscontinuous and if you mess up,
it's okay.
Speaker 1 (08:47):
For sure.
That's the foundation of what Iteach, really.
But I just want to add, too, toyour comment that it's so
necessary for us to get thattraining from people like you,
because for most of us, we werenot raised in homes in which we
were taught the skills ofemotional regulation.
Most of us arrive to ourrelationships, our families, our
(09:11):
jobs not having these skills.
It's really important that weget that training and that we
start building our skills.
The good news is, emotionalregulation is our skills that we
can all learn at, and it'snever too late and at any time.
We all have the capacity toimprove our ability to regulate
(09:35):
our emotions.
That's the good news.
I feel inspired to respond tosort of inspire a new movement,
a new generation of adults whowere raised in homes in which
they were taught the skills ofemotional regulation.
That's what I get reallyexcited about.
Speaker 2 (09:56):
Yeah, that is.
I think that's something thatis so needed, especially, you
know, I see so many studies outthe impact of online, you know,
the social media platforms.
Digital literacy is a hugething that I am very passionate
about, you know, just helpingkids learn how the things that
they are consuming, all theinformation they're consuming,
(10:19):
does have an impact on not onlyhow they view the world but how
they interact with the worldaround them.
So I think teaching these,these skills to them is so
incredibly important, especiallyfor today's youth, who they're
having to deal with a lot ofthings that I don't think.
Well, not that I don't thinkthat I know at least I didn't
(10:41):
have to deal with, you know when, when I was growing up as a
part of Generation X, Gen X youknow, I just turned 50 this year
and I think about how myfriends and I we didn't have
some of the pressures that theyoung ones have today.
As far as you know, being onlineand the tick tock and Instagram
and you know all of those otherthings that have such an
(11:03):
incredible impact on self imageand you know how, how they it
can just have a huge impact ontheir psyche all of those things
.
But you had mentioned parentsas well, with emotional
regulation and parents, and howit's not too late to learn how
to do this.
I'd like to focus on that for alittle bit because, if you know
(11:29):
it, if you're a young parentespecially, and you're like I
was, you didn't grow up in anenvironment where you were
taught these skills what aresome pieces of advice that you
can give?
Well, you know what?
Not even a young parent, maybean older parent, who they're
just now starting this journey,you know what what are those
(11:49):
conversations like that you havewith parents to just help them
begin this journey?
Speaker 1 (11:56):
Yeah, I mentioned a moment ago that it all starts
with compassion, and that's thefoundation of everything I teach
.
So that's where I like to start, and like to start with
creating compassion forourselves as parents and why
it's hard for us to regulate ourown emotions, and also
compassion for our children andunderstanding why it's hard for
them to regulate their emotions.
(12:17):
So a good starting place is avery simple definition of
emotions and what is the purposeof emotions?
And the purpose of emotions isto communicate information to us
about our needs.
So if we're experiencingcomfortable emotions, where our
needs are being met, and ifwe're experiencing uncomfortable
emotions, our needs are notbeing met.
(12:40):
My definition of emotionalregulation is the is the ability
to be with our feelings thecomfortable ones and the
uncomfortable ones and respondin ways that allow us to stay
with that feeling, be presentwith it and respond with
curiosity for, hmm, what is thisfeeling telling me about my
(13:01):
unmet need?
So that's a very logical andpractical way of responding to
our feelings in a reallyeffective way.
But the reason that's sochallenging for us as human
beings is because of the way ournervous system unconsciously
affects our behavior, and sowhat happens is that when we're
(13:24):
feeling comfortable emotions, weare emotionally, emotionally
regulated and we are able, toexcuse me, respond in those
effective ways.
But when we feel uncomfortableemotions, we can feel
overwhelmed by them and we canfeel scared.
And when we feel overwhelmedand scared, it can trigger our
(13:49):
fight, flight or freeze response.
And so what happens is, insteadof responding in effective ways
, we responded in effective waysbecause of our automatic and
unconscious reaction to theseemotions that we're experiencing
, and so, instead of being ableto stay present with our
(14:13):
emotions and respond withcuriosity to what our needs are
and how we can meet those ineffective ways, we respond by
lashing out or shutting down,and what happens is that,
instead of creating, you know,instead of getting our needs met
, we are responding in ways that, in fact, don't get our needs
met.
(14:33):
So that's why it makes sensethat managing our emotions are
so challenging, even as adultswho have a fully developed brain
.
Again, as adults, we can alsohave additional compassion for
ourselves by acknowledging thatmany of us were raised in homes
in which emotional regulationwas not taught, and so that
makes it really challenging.
(14:54):
And what makes it reallychallenging for our kids is the
part of our brain that helps usto regulate our emotions is the
prefrontal cortex, and that isnot.
That doesn't even really beginto develop until age four or
five, and it's not fullydeveloped until we're closer to
age 30.
And so it develops slowly overa long period of time.
(15:17):
And so, for all of thesereasons again, we can start with
from that place of compassionfor why responding to our
emotions in effective ways isreally challenging.
Speaker 2 (15:29):
That you know.
There's so much in what youjust said and I know a lot of
the listeners are going to havea sigh of relief.
No, okay so there you'retelling me there's nothing wrong
with me, absolutely normal thatI'm having.
You know this, you knowresponse.
Speaker 1 (15:47):
Yeah, human beings that evolved with the primary
goal of keeping ourselves safe.
Speaker 2 (15:52):
Yeah, yeah, it totally makes sense.
You know, and you're right thatthat logical part of the brain
because I've been there and Istill get there to this day you
know that something happens andyou get triggered by it and it's
really really easy to justimmediately have that response.
So how do you take?
(16:13):
What is that first step thatyou can take?
Now?
I know what, what I havelearned to do.
You know when, when I'm havinga difficult time, I'm having a
difficult conversation, or maybesomeone says something that I
begin to cringe because they'resaying something.
You know, I've learned a coupleof things that I can do.
You know, kind of step away fora moment in, in kind of gather
(16:36):
my thoughts and, before Irespond, I don't react to things
.
I respond to things now, butwhat are some of the actions or
tools?
Or you know someone who is nowrecognizing okay, I get it now.
This is pretty normal.
I'm not alone in this.
(16:56):
I'm still reacting to things inways that are making it worse
and not making it better.
What, what can they do?
Speaker 1 (17:06):
you know, to begin this, Well, the first step is,
once we have that understandingand compassion, the next step is
to recognize how ourenvironment can set us up for
success or set us up for failure, in regulating our emotions.
So, for example, when we're notgetting enough sleep or proper
(17:28):
nutrition, or hydration, ormovement or connection or all of
these things, it leads tooverwhelm, and it leads to
something that, if we wereoperating at full capacity,
would not feel overwhelming.
But when we're not operating atfull capacity, it does feel
overwhelming, and so we're muchquicker to be triggered into our
(17:51):
fight-fight or freeze responsewhen our core needs are not
being met.
Now, as parents, this is sochallenging and, again, so much
compassion, because we are oftenin these years in survival mode
, and so I know that I alwaysshare the story that when I was
a parent of young children and Ididn't have this awareness, I
(18:15):
didn't have this understandingof how our well-being supported
our emotional regulation, and soI was that parent who wore that
badge of honor for not meetingmy needs and always putting my
own children's needs as numberone.
I just didn't know better.
I was doing the best I could inthat moment, and now for
(18:35):
today's generation, in many waysit's gone to the opposite end
of the spectrum, because they'rehearing these messages and now
they're understanding theimportance of, you know, meeting
their needs as a importantcomponent of being able to act
as the best parent they can andto support their emotional
regulation.
And it can feel like just onemore thing on their to-do list
(18:59):
when they're already in survivalmode and just barely getting
through the day.
Now, of course, everyone'sindividual circumstances are
different and for some of us, wehave the ability to create
places to, you know, to meet ourwell-being, to support our
well-being, more easily thanothers, and so I always say, if
(19:20):
the only self-care that you canprovide yourself in a day is
compassion, then that is reallyvaluable.
You know, at the end of the day, when our head hits the pillow
and we all do this oh, it was onmy to-do list to meditate.
It was on my to-do list to getout and go for a walk, it was on
(19:40):
my to-do list to do this, andwe somehow get through the day
and everything else happenedexcept those things.
We can go to compassion.
You know, I did my best today,and doing our best is always
good enough.
Speaker 2 (19:55):
And you know, listening to you say that it
just makes me think of, eventhough I don't have kids, you
know, in the home anymore, it'seasy for me to still fall into
that.
Oh, I'm meant to go for thatwalk, oh, I meant to do that, I
meant to do it.
You're right, it's so easy tofall into that trap and to just
take a moment and say I did thebest I could today with, with
(20:19):
what I had.
I did the best I could todaywith you know, everything that
was going on.
That does go a long way.
You know, I'm still learning topractice that self-compassion
because, you're right, you know,we fill our day with all of the
things and sometimes thatself-care just seems like that's
just one more thing that I'veput on myself and now I'm
(20:42):
feeling the pressure to get itdone and it's doing the opposite
of what we were hoping it woulddo as far as how we're feeling.
You know, in that moment intime, I think if I had known
then what I know now regardingthis, I probably would have had.
You know, when my son anddaughter were younger, our
mornings probably would havegone a lot smoother.
(21:04):
You know, with the, you knowthe whole everything was just.
Some mornings it was just.
It seemed like it was out ofcontrol, and that made me think
of something that you, just, youknow, you said previously about
.
Are you getting enough sleep?
You know, are you eatinghealthy?
Are you getting enough water?
(21:25):
You know, all of these basicthings that contribute to your
well-being.
You know, it's not just aboutmaking time to go for a walk or,
you know, just shoving one morething into your day, but, you
know, even just looking at yoursleep schedule which I know can
be difficult, but it makesperfect sense, you know are you
(21:45):
able to actually handle thiseffectively if you are operating
on minimal sleep, you know, andyou wake up grouchy, of course,
you're probably not going tohave a good morning when that
happens.
So think about the kids, youknow, if they're not sleeping
well.
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(22:08):
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Speaker 1 (22:49):
And you lead to the next step, which is, you know,
then we can look at our theenvironment.
You know our child'senvironment and we can become
curious about are their needsbeing met?
You know for and every child isdifferent and you know your
child best.
But we all need places fordowntime and for children that
(23:14):
can really look like play,especially for our very young
children.
And play creating unstructuredplaytime not the going to art
class, not the going to sports.
Unstructured playtime is one ofthe most important things that
we can be sure to create spacefor in our child's day, because
(23:34):
that does so many importantthings, including helping them
to work things out that havebeen going on for them, and it
also supports the development ofthe prefrontal cortex.
And so we want to look atthings like play, like for
ourselves.
We want to look at things liketheir sleep.
That's probably the number onething that I'll ask a parent
(23:57):
about when we first talk andthey're experiencing a challenge
in their home is what doessleep look like for your child
and how much sleep are theygetting?
Because that's so such animportant foundation to our
ability to regulate our emotions.
You know, for some of our kidsthey really like to be on the go
, go go.
(24:17):
And as a culture, as parents,we are often, you know, very
scheduled in terms of, you know,the activities going on after
school.
So, again, we just want to havean awareness of creating
balance for structured time aswell as unstructured time.
You know, there's endless waysthat we can support their
(24:40):
environment.
Even the way that wecommunicate with them is a way
that we can create anenvironment that supports their
well being.
There's so many effective waysthat we can communicate with our
child.
You know, for example, when wewant them to do all those simple
things, especially for ouryoung children put on your shoes
, wash your hands, get in thecar.
(25:00):
You know, this can be such adaily challenge for parents, but
when we learn some creativeways to communicate that set us
all up for success.
For example, children areparticularly good at doing what
they're supposed to do, butthey're so good at having fun.
And so, when we can, you know,when we have the capacity and we
(25:21):
don't always have the capacity,but when we have the capacity
and we can turn something into agame, you know like you know
something silly, like, if youneed them to get in that car
seat, oh, don't get in your carseat right now, because you know
our invisible friend Joey is inthere and we don't want to sit
on Joey.
So just don't get in your carseat right now.
(25:41):
You know again, just silly, youknow your kid, you know what's
going to make them laugh.
Or, our kids also love to knowthe answers to questions, so we
can instead of turn a requestinto a question oh, what is it
that we put on next, you know.
Or again, silliness, you know.
Oh, time to put your shoes onyour head.
(26:03):
And again, all of these thingsseem so silly to us, but they
are so effective with ourchildren and they love it and it
just it turns.
It just really supportscooperation.
So when we learn effective waysto communicate with our
children, it can really alsosupport and set everybody up for
success in regulating theiremotions.
Speaker 2 (26:24):
Yeah, I love that.
You know you're really talkingabout getting on their level and
trying to see it through theireyes and think about, in this
moment, what is going to makethis a little more fun for them.
Or you know, how can I get themto understand this in a certain
way and you're allowed to havefun with it.
I think sometimes, like yousaid earlier, we're in survival
(26:46):
mode and sometimes when we'restuck in that survival mode, we
forget to laugh.
We forget that if little Joeywants to wear cowboy boots with
his shorts, you know, instead ofhis tennis shoes, it's not the
end of the world.
Okay, so he's wearing cowboyboots with his shorts, you know
(27:10):
that's perfectly fine.
I think sometimes maybe we doget stuck in that cycle of just
wanting everything to be the waywe think it is supposed to be
or the way it should be, and welose sight of just going on this
ride and having fun with it and, yeah, not taking it too
(27:33):
seriously all the time.
Do you run into parents whohave kind of lost sight of that
side of things?
Speaker 1 (27:39):
Oh, I think we all lose sight of that side
Absolutely.
How could we not in the day today that we need to?
You know the routines that weneed to get through every day?
You know, I still have thismemory and I don't know why I
remember this.
But when I had my second child,I remember saying to my husband
oh my gosh, when we need to goupstairs I will just be able to
(28:05):
pick her up and walk up thestairs.
And it reminds me of howchallenging it could be to get
my child to get up the stairs.
Yep, I remember those days too,and it reminds me of another fun
tip, because a lot of times weuse, you know, racing as another
strategy to, you know, makesomething fun and engage our
(28:29):
child in a way that gets theirattention.
But that can be tricky becauseif it turns into siblings racing
each other and then it getsthem up the stairs.
But by the time they're up thestairs they're then in a fight
because one person won and oneperson lost.
So another trick we can usethere is have them race us and
have us be the person that theybeat, and then it makes them a
(28:50):
team against me and then thatjust kind of creates all good,
because they get to feel likethey won and then they're
connecting over they both wonand there's no bad guy who
doesn't want to be able to beattheir parents at something Right
?
Speaker 2 (29:04):
I do remember, you know, just you sharing that
story about going up the stairs.
It reminded me one time many,many years ago I don't even
remember what it was that my sonwas mad at me about something
and he he was maybe five yearsold at the time and I remember
he was standing at the bottom ofthe stairs and I told him to go
(29:24):
upstairs and he's like hestarts just going up the stairs,
you know, stopping his littlefeet, and he stops halfway up
and looks at me I don't like youvery much.
And then he turns around andkeeps walking up the stairs and
I had to take a moment to stopmyself from laughing out loud
because it was so funny, the way.
(29:47):
I mean and I think in hislittle brain he truly meant it
at that time because I wasmaking him do something that he
didn't want to do.
I'm sure it was probably bedtimeor something like that, but you
know, I just think that's a funmemory for me because it does
remind me that you know, when Italk to younger parents, that
(30:08):
you know they're going to saythings and they're not even
going to remember it the nextday.
So try your best to not take ittoo seriously, too much to
heart.
You know my son telling me Idon't like you very much.
You know, by the next day hedidn't remember it, he was over
it, and so you know, I thinkthat's an important lesson that
(30:30):
I had learned, just to, yeah, beable to laugh at some of those
things, laugh some of thosethings off, because he was just
in the moment and he got over it.
Speaker 1 (30:40):
He ended up getting over it.
Actually such a fantasticexample to go to.
Then what is the next step?
And that's well, how do werespond in the moment?
You know, when our child is andthat was, you know, that to me
sounds like a very, you know,young child.
Good, you know, just kind of acute thing we can all laugh at.
But take that and go, take itto the next level.
(31:02):
And our child is looking at usand saying I hate you and it's,
and it's hurtful, or our childis hitting, whether it's hitting
us or hitting their sibling, orhitting a friend.
You know when these thingshappen, or when we're asking our
child to do that thing andthey're not doing that thing and
we don't have the capacity forhumor in that moment and you
(31:23):
know it turns into a moment ofconflict.
Yeah, you know, it's in thosemoments of big emotions
triggering those big behaviorsthat we want to consider
responding in a new way.
In those moments again, ourtraditional strategies being
(31:43):
consequences and rewards.
And what's tricky aboutconsequences and rewards and why
they're not the most effectiveway to respond in those moments
is because, for one thingespecially when we're thinking
about rewards, but it really canapply to both.
It assumes an awful lot.
(32:04):
It assumes that our child hasthe capacity in that moment to
manage their emotions andrespond in effective ways.
And what we know is that,contrary to what we're often
taught, we're often receive themessage as parents that when our
children are behaving ininappropriate ways, they're
(32:24):
doing it's an intentionalbehavior and it's done to get
their way.
And it is true that if we havea child who, when they ask for
something and we say no orwhatever that particular
situation is, but then theyescalate and escalate and then
we acquiesce and we just need itto go away and so we say, fine,
you can do that thing or havethat thing, then yes, we are
(32:46):
training our child to escalateand intentionally escalate for
the purpose of getting their way.
That acknowledged, in mostcases, when our children are
escalating, it's because they'rein that unconscious and
automatic fight or freezeresponse that they do not yet
(33:06):
have the brain development, theskills or potentially the
capacity in that moment do us onin more effective ways.
And so when we view behaviorthrough that lens, we understand
that in fact, consequences andrewards are not particularly
effective because, again, itassumes that it's intentional
behavior and often it's not.
(33:27):
And also, even when it iseffective, a challenge is that
the consequence and the rewardneeds to keep getting bigger and
bigger and bigger, and so, bythe time our kids have arrived
to between zine teens, we nolonger have effective skills for
managing emotions and behaviorin our home, and so that's
(33:49):
something to be aware of as well.
Another tool that we're oftentaught to use is ignoring
unwanted behavior, and thereason that that's not the most
effective choice is because whathappens is that, again, if
we're looking at behaviorthrough the lens of, it's a
reaction to being in a threatresponse, and if we understand
(34:11):
that, as mammals, it's ourinstinct, when we feel
overwhelmed or afraid, to thenretreat back to and connect with
that person, that adult, thatcaregiver who we feel safe with,
then we understand that if werespond by ignoring or we could
put timeouts in that category towe understand that by
(34:34):
responding in that way, whatwe're doing is essentially
escalating the threat response,essentially adding fuel to the
fire of whatever the behavior islashing out or shutting down.
That's the reason that that'snot the most effective response.
And then what?
The response that I did, whichI thought was really brilliant
at the time, and we hear a lotabout it these days, which is
(34:56):
teaching calming skills.
The trick there is that excuseme, at least for myself, and I
think a lot of other parentsexperience this is that we
respond in these ways in whichwe're calm and then we connect
with our child at a later timeand we teach them these calming
(35:18):
skills and then we expect thatwe're setting them up for
success in the next time.
Instead of lashing out orshutting down, they're going to
use this calming skill andeverything's going to be
wonderful.
And then, of course, they don't,because they don't have the
brain capacity yet to be able topause, have this awareness that
they're in a threat responseand consider a different tool
and put this tool into place.
(35:39):
They cannot respond in that wayuntil emotional regulation has
developed in their brain, and sowhat happens is we end up
feeling frustrated and wonderingwhat's wrong with me or what's
wrong with my child, and ourchildren end up feeling helpless
and shamed because we have thisexpectation and they're not
(35:59):
able to meet it.
So, that said, we all use allthree of those tools, and you
could also add in yelling.
We all yell sometimes.
We all use these toolssometimes and we're all probably
always going to use these toolssometimes, and that's perfectly
okay, because all we can doagain is our best in that moment
.
So, again, it's all rooted incompassion.
(36:21):
But if we can have thisawareness that when we have the
capacity, there is a moreeffective tool available to us,
a tool that is the mosteffective way to respond to big
emotions and big behaviors in away that supports the
development of emotionalregulation, and that's called co
regulation.
(36:42):
So co regulation is respondingto big emotions and big
behaviors by recognizing thatwhat's happening is our child is
dysregulated, rather than ourchild is purposefully
misbehaving, and responding in away that helps them feel
(37:04):
physically and emotionally safeenough to return to emotional
regulation.
And so when we do that, when weare in that that's a very high
level definition we canabsolutely talk about how we
actually apply that inindividual circumstances, how we
respond in a way that helps ourchild feel safe enough to
return to emotional regulation.
(37:26):
But when we respond in that way, the reason it's effective is
because three important thingshappen.
One is they return toregulation.
And when we're regulated, wehave, we are biologically
capable of acting in the waysthat we want our children to act
.
They're capable of listening andlearning and being flexible and
(37:50):
problem solving, and when werespond in that way over and
over again, their brain wires toassociate uncomfortable
emotions with feeling safe, andso there.
So we see less behavior issues,we see improved social skills
(38:12):
and we raise adults who areemotionally regulated rather
than emotionally reactive.
Third, they're experiencingembodied learning, going back to
teaching calming skills, andthere's nothing bad about
teaching calming skills, unlessyou're expecting them to have
the capacity to use that thevery next time.
(38:34):
But embodied learning is aneven more effective way to teach
calming skills, because what'shappening is they're learning
what it feels like in their bodyto go from feeling dysregulated
to regulated, and so that is,in fact, the most effective way
for them to learn how to calmthemselves in the future.
(38:58):
And that's so important for usto understand, because, as a
culture, we're so focused onteaching independence and we're
worried that if we help ourchild calm themselves, that they
will be dependent on us to helpthem calm themselves forever.
That was my worry.
That's why I expected my childto be able to calm themselves.
(39:20):
I didn't understand thatco-regulation was in fact, a
prerequisite to be able toself-regulate and be emotionally
regulated on their own.
Speaker 2 (39:33):
It can be so challenging earlier you had
mentioned if you have a childwho tends to lash out or back,
and that's an area.
I know a lot of parents or eventeachers who are in a classroom
who witness this type ofbehavior, some interruption that
happens in class.
I never had that experiencewith my kids, you know, like
(39:56):
hitting me back or hitting ateacher or anything like that,
picking fights, and so I'm notquite sure.
You know, when I witnesssomething like this happening
with other parents or I see ithappening, you know, in the
school system I don't reallyknow what to say to them.
(40:17):
You know, in that moment to, Iguess you know, kind of help
them figure out how to get tothe stage where that you're
talking about.
You know, helping their childlearn how to, I guess, along the
way, figure out how toself-regulate.
It's a very difficult thing todo.
(40:37):
Do you think that some childrenare just have a natural more
calm disposition than otherchildren?
You know are some just a littlemore challenging, and so those
parents are just going to haveto work a little harder, you
know, to develop these skillsthan other parents might.
You know what, what, what haveyou witnessed in those different
(41:02):
types of situations, withchildren who tend to have a
little more I don't want to usethe word desire, but the
response.
The reaction tends to be alittle more violent, you know,
than other kids.
Speaker 1 (41:14):
Yeah, that's such an important point that you bring
up.
For some of us, you know, wehave children.
For those of us who have morethan one child, oftentimes one
of those children might just benaturally more calm, more
regulated than another child whomight be more quick to quick to
(41:35):
be quick to go to reactive, andso what happens is that it's
all about individual differences, and this is what you know.
We talk a lot about inclusionthese days, and this is how
inclusion can show up inparenting is understanding
individual differences in ourchildren.
So, for example, for ourchildren who are born as deeply
(41:58):
feeling children or who havesensory sensitivities and so
they're particularly reactive tosounds or smells or how things
feel, for our children who havea diagnosis of ADHD or a SD and
a wide variety of otherindividual differences, so these
(42:18):
kids feel things more deeplyand so and, and, and they have
fight, fight or freeze responsesthat get triggered more easily.
And so it's so easy for us, asparents who have that
emotionally regulated child, tolook at the reactive child and
think, oh my gosh, what's wrongwith that parent or what's wrong
(42:41):
with that child.
And it brings us back toinclusion, it brings us back to
understanding.
We're all different and we'reall doing our best.
And so, in fact, for that childfor whom emotional regulation
comes more easily In fact it'sthe child who's looking as
(43:02):
though they have there a bad kidI sit put that in quotation
marks because I don't mean thatat all, but that.
But some of us can.
If we don't have this educationand we're not looking through
behavior through this lens, wecan respond in judgmental ways.
In fact, that child is working100 times harder at regulating
(43:23):
their emotions than than thechild who appears to be doing
such a good job with it.
So, instead of, you know,praising that child to stay and
come, for whom it comes so darneasily, and in fact celebrate
that child for whom it is sochallenging, so how, how co
regulation would look in thatmoment of a child who is hitting
(43:44):
is again, we want to remindourselves of our goal.
We want to pause and remindourselves that this child is in
a threat state right now.
They are feeling overwhelmed orthey are feeling afraid and
they don't yet have the capacity, brain development skills or
potentially, the capacity inthat moment, to respond in a
(44:05):
more effective.
Pause, and we remind ourselvesof that, it brings to us to a
very different space and so wecan start there in recognizing
challenging behavior asdysregulation in most cases.
And then the second piece of coregulation is to respond in
(44:26):
ways that help the child feelphysically and emotionally safe
enough to return to regulation,because we can't teach when
they're dysregulated.
And when we are in a fight,flight or freeze state, our
brain is fully prioritizing allcapacities that are about
survival.
And so things like our heartrate increases and are you know,
(44:51):
because, because our bloodblood starts flowing faster so
that we can react more quickly,our muscles tense, we begin to
excuse me, begin to sweat,because that's our automatic air
conditioning system.
All of these things areprioritized in our brain and our
body that are supportingsurvival.
The thing that does not supportsurvival is our logical brain
(45:12):
or prefrontal cortex.
That is not a time for us to bethinking through something
thoughtfully and reflecting.
This is a time for automaticinstincts.
So it is very hard to accessour thinking brain in that
moment.
So again, our child isbiologically incapable of, you
know, oftentimes hearing in thatmoment, certainly not listening
, learning, or being calm orflexible or problem solving.
(45:34):
So we can just take thatexpectation off the table until
we're able to support them.
And returning to regulation,which is why it's our number one
goal.
We can't do anything.
We can't do anything effectiveuntil we get them back to
regulation.
It's the only effective thingto do in that moment, because
nothing good is going to happenuntil we get them back to a
regulated state.
(45:55):
So in that moment, to providephysical safety, I would say I
won't let you.
And whatever needed to be donein that moment, using as little
force as necessary, whether it'sjust gently holding their arms
back or standing up intochildren or whatever needs to be
done again, using as littleforce as necessary, but not
(46:18):
letting the child hit or hurtthemselves or someone else in
that is, provides the physicalsafety I won't you.
And then doing what needs to bedone, and then I would say what
one thing you could do is saysomething like I'm right here
with you.
Until you're able to controlyour body, I'm right here with
(46:41):
you.
That might help one child.
But the really important thingto understand about co
regulation is that what helpsone child feel safe is very
different than what helpsanother child feel safe.
So for some of us, words can bevery comforting.
You're not alone in this.
(47:02):
Again, as mammals, we seeksafety through being with a safe
caregiver.
I won't let you.
I'm right here with you.
You know that creates thatemotional and physical safety.
Now for words might be reallytriggering, and the best thing
to do in that moment is toprovide that compassion non
(47:23):
verbally, through a soft gaze inyour eye, through body language
, things like that.
For other kids, what theyreally need in that moment is
movement, and so it's reallytricky in for teachers.
I don't pretend to be an expertin the classroom, because it's
so much different in terms ofhow you would manage this in the
(47:43):
classroom than at home.
It might be a lot easier to saylet's go out to the playground,
let's get outside.
Changing scenery, gettingoutside in nature, movement
these are all things that reallyhelp a child regulate.
Speaker 2 (48:00):
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Speaker 1 (48:48):
My mom was a teacher all her life and so I have such
tremendous respect for teachersand the classroom and I think
it's so valuable for them toconsider behavior through this
lens and also so challenging forthem to figure out ways that
they can implement these newways in a classroom.
There are ways that they can doit, but it can be a different
(49:12):
challenge than the way we do itin a home.
Speaker 2 (49:15):
Oh yeah, you know, like you had mentioned, just
recognizing in this emotionalstate, maybe the child does need
to just be able to go outsideon the playground and just run
it out, you know, or whatever itis that you just kind of get
that out in that moment in timebecause they're just not able to
be able to self-regulate.
But it can be challengingbecause if you're the only
(49:35):
teacher in the classroom andyou've got a classroom full of
like 40, 50 kids in some cases,because they're just so
overpopulated in the classroomsand in some of these school
systems, so really to be able tohave the support from the
school system itself, you know,and have a teacher assistant or
someone who's accessible, if youunderstand that you have a
(49:57):
child who might need that extrastep to be able to learn this
then or to get to that state,that would really help that one
teacher out.
But they are just in adifficult position.
Speaker 1 (50:13):
Yeah yeah, they.
You know there's ways to getcreative in a classroom.
For example, those balls, thosebig balls that children can sit
on and bounce up and down,because, of course, in most
cases there wouldn't be theflexibility to allow that child
the opportunity to get outsideand run around the playground in
that particular moment.
And so a bouncy ball can helpfor some children.
(50:34):
They're feeling, really theirsenses are completely
overwhelmed.
Being in a classroom can bereally overwhelming.
You know, for some childrenwhat a beautiful experience all
these colors and posters andthings to look at, and for our
kids who have sensorysensitivities, particularly
visually, for example, that canbe a really overwhelming space.
(50:55):
And so when they're in a momentwhere they're something's
challenging and you know theircapacity is lower because
they're in this, really in thisspace that is challenging their
senses and ability to managethat, and so then something
happens and they're more easilytriggered.
We can create just like we canat home.
(51:16):
We can create quiet spaces inthe classroom and it's not about
, again, it's not about timeouts, and again, this can be tricky
for some students.
In a classroom they may have aone on one aid or an aid who
helps a variety of students, andthat aid could help in that
moment, but in an idealsituation and we don't live in
(51:38):
an ideal, perfect life so thatwe always again come back to
compassion and we just do ourbest in the moment but in an
ideal situation, just like athome, in the classroom.
It's not about sending our kidsto time out, but it could be
about saying would you like totake a break in a quiet space
and let's go together.
And then other things that canhelp children to regulate in the
(52:00):
moment are calming activitieslike coloring or reading a book.
Things like this can be calmingactivities that we can have set
up and ready to go in ourcalming spaces.
So again, the tricky thingabout emotional excuse me, the
tricky thing about co-regulationis that it really does require
(52:21):
us to experiment and get to knowour child, whether that child
is our student or whether thatchild is our child.
We need to get to know them asindividuals and what helps them
calm in that moment.
Speaker 2 (52:38):
You're just making me think of how, even with my own
children, as they grew older,you know earlier you had
mentioned, yeah, I mean, kidsare completely different.
They can grow up in the samehouse and have completely
different ways of responding tosituations.
And you know, emotionally andall of those things, my kids
were smaller.
My son was the one who wasconstantly on the go, bouncing
(53:01):
off the walls, you know, justnonstop motor running, and it
was just so incrediblychallenging being a mom of a
young boy.
He just wanted to get intoeverything and I, to this day I
can't believe he didn't breakany bones when he was going on
because he had like no, like noself-awareness of you just put
(53:22):
yourself in a very dangerousposition, climbing all the way
to the top of that tree.
And my daughter was the opposite, you know.
She just was very calm andself-spoken, and night and day.
But as they got older, they hitmiddle school, and it seemed
like their personalities, theirpersonalities just completely
(53:45):
switched.
You know she started goingthrough the hormonal changes,
you know emotional rollercoasterwas happening and then he
seemed to calm down and so bythe time, you know they were
teenagers.
It was like, wow, there waslike this flip that happened,
and so I think it's, you know,helpful the things that you have
(54:09):
said regarding taking a momentand recognizing what is
happening with your child andlook through that lens of
compassion, just because it ispossible for them to change Well
, they will change over time.
What might work when they werelittle kids as they get older
and the hormones are hitting andtheir challenges at school get
(54:32):
much different, they're probablygoing to react in different
ways, and so I think listeningto what you have talked about
today is so incredibly forparents.
Regardless of whatever stagetheir child is in, they're gonna
have to be able to take thatmoment and look at it through a
lens of compassion.
Are there any other tools thatyou would recommend for parents
(54:54):
as they're recognizing thatshift?
Speaker 1 (54:57):
Yes, and before I go on to that next piece, I would
just add that you're so right torecognize that this way of
responding to behavior issomething that can transition
from our very young children allthe way through to our
teenagers, and again it'slearning.
It just starts with thatviewing behavior through this
(55:21):
lens.
But let's say, our teenager orour tween walks into the room or
walks, comes in from school orwhatever it is, and just starts
speaking to us in a reallydisrespectful way.
Again, it's about holdingboundaries, together with in the
same way that we held thatboundary for the child who was
(55:44):
hitting.
It's about holding boundarieswhile also recognizing that that
child is not intentionallyacting badly, but just in a
really overwhelmed state wherethey don't the ability to
respond in a more effective way.
So we can respond by saying,hey, not okay to talk to me that
way, but I can see you had areally bad day.
(56:07):
What's going on?
How can I help?
You know and I even use thisexample with adults, with our,
you know, an example for how itcould look for ourselves as
adults, because it's somethingwe can apply to every stage of
our life and in fact, again, asmammals, although we do learn
how to self-regulate.
(56:28):
And we do have that capacity asgrownups because we're mammals
and, again, it's our instinct tobe with a safe person when we
feel overwhelmed or scared.
We benefit from co-regulationfor our entire lives.
We're really actually not meantto regulate alone.
It's again our culture thatreally creates that idea that we
should be able to do everythingindependently.
(56:51):
But an example would be is iflet's say you know this can
apply in any situation.
But I'll just use the exampleof I just got home from work and
my partner is with the childrenand has maybe let's actually do
it this way.
I'm gonna use an example of Iwas gonna do an example of a
(57:13):
working mom, but I'm gonna do anexample of a mom that's been
home all day with the kids.
Our husband walks in and wejust go from having kept it
together all day long acting asour best selves, acting as our
worst selves.
We are just our partner walkedin and we're just letting it all
out and they're seeing theworst of us.
(57:36):
Now it would be very fair andappropriate for our partner to
react by setting limits andsaying it's not okay to talk to
me that way and identifyingneeds.
I need you to communicate withme more effectively or what have
you.
But the point being is thatwhen we have the capacity to act
as our highest self which,again, we often do not, but we
(57:59):
have the capacity to act as ourhighest self our partner could
respond with co-regulation andlook at us with compassion in
their eyes and say wow, Iimagine you're exhausted and
you've had a long, hard day.
How can I help?
And they've set a limit, but ina way that is rooted in
compassion, like I see you'renot acting as your regular self,
(58:24):
so there must be somethinggoing on and I can imagine, and
I wanna, how can I help you?
Speaker 2 (58:30):
I can see that being a tool to use anywhere, like
even in the workplace.
You're so right.
Somebody comes in and they walkinto the office and they go off
on you about something.
And you're right.
I mean, it's a valuable tool tobe able to stay in the moment
and say, hey, it's not okay totalk to me that way, but I
(58:51):
recognize you're a littlestressed about something.
What's going on?
How can I help, instead of justimmediately reacting in a way
that, hey, and then it turnsinto this big argument, even in
the office, or like the exampleyou're using with the parents.
That's fantastic.
I mean, that's real life rightthere.
Speaker 1 (59:12):
Yeah, and that ties back to what you started with in
the beginning, when youacknowledged that you teach the
tool of helping people learn tocheck in with their own emotions
, but also to check in withother people's emotions.
Because, again, if we go back tothe definition of emotions and
if their emotions are intendedto communicate information about
(59:34):
our needs, when we respond ineffective ways, we can get our
needs met.
When we respond in effectiveways, we're not setting
ourselves up for getting ourneeds met, so that mom in that
moment didn't have the capacityto respond in an effective way,
so she's potentially settingherself up to not get her needs
met, because oftentimes whatwould happen is, instead of that
(59:55):
person being kind andcompassionate, is that instead
then they become reactive andinstead of getting the support
she needed, she would have thenescalated what was already an
exhausting situation to now anexhausting situation which she's
also fighting with her partner,and so that just kind of helps
us see how, in an ideal world,we wanna respond to our emotions
(01:00:16):
in effective ways so we can getour needs met.
But we live in a real world andso, with that in mind, we want
to have compassion for ourselvesand others and, when we can
offer co-regulation to our child, to our partner, to our
colleague.
That's a wonderful thing.
Speaker 2 (01:00:33):
Yeah, I gotta tell you that, what a fantastic way
to wrap this episode up.
I think we kind of went fullcircle.
What a fantastic journey youtook us through.
I mean.
So many tools, so many thingsto think about.
I think that anybody who'slistening to this episode right
now, I think they need tore-listen to it again and have
(01:00:56):
that notebook out and take downsome notes, because, as much as
I've been working in this fieldof communication for over 30
years now I learned so muchthrough this conversation, so I
am so incredibly thankful thatyou were willing to take your
time and spend this time with us.
You could be doing a thousandother things, but you chose to
(01:01:18):
be with us here today to sharethis information that is gonna
be so incredibly useful to somany people parents, teachers,
young adults, everyone acrossthe board.
Is there anything that anyfinal say that you would like to
share with the listeningaudience before we wrap it up?
Speaker 1 (01:01:41):
Yeah, I mean, I guess I would just say that if this
is something, if what you'rehearing resonates with you, then
the next step is to understandthat, in order to be able to
co-regulate in the moment, youneed to first regulate yourself
in the moment.
And so go to my website,laurareardandcoachingcom, and
(01:02:03):
download the cheat sheet for howto stay calm in the moment when
you feel like you're going tolose it, because that's gonna be
a challenge for all of us.
Speaker 2 (01:02:13):
Fantastic I'll make sure to put that link in the
show notes for everyone to beable to access that this has
been so impactful.
It really has Fantasticinformation, so incredibly
useful, and I think it bringshope.
Sometimes we get into somereally dark places.
We don't know what the nextmove is, and I think that's
(01:02:35):
probably the best thing abouthaving conversations like these
with experts like you is.
It gives the rest of us hopethat there is something that we
can work at to try to makethings just a little bit better.
Even if it's that one teeny,tiny little thing that can try
in that moment, it'll help tomake things better and that's a
(01:02:55):
good thing, something to be ableto look forward to and to hope.
Speaker 1 (01:02:59):
I hope so, I really hope so that people receive it
in this way.
I know it can feel overwhelmingto consider a new way of
responding, but I just reallyhope that, if not, if somebody
takes nothing else from thisconversation, if they bring with
them again that new lens fromwhich to look at our own
(01:03:22):
behavior through and to look atour children's behavior through,
that's enough to make a reallyimportant change.
Speaker 2 (01:03:29):
Fantastic.
All right, thanks again, laura,for spending your time with us.
Thank you for having me.
All right, everyone.
I hope you found this episodeuseful.
I know I did learn so much.
I thank you for spending yourtime with us today, because you
as well could be doing athousand other things besides
listening to this episode, so Ihope that you did find some
(01:03:53):
value in it, and I hope you alsohave a wonderful rest of your
day.
You all take care now bye.
Thanks for listening.
If you enjoyed this episode andyou'd like to help support the
podcast, please share it withothers, post about it on social
(01:04:14):
media or leave a rating and areview.
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