July 31, 2024 • 60 mins
Can politeness truly transform your life? Find out as Jennifer Furlong sits down with Kristi Spencer, founder of the Polite Company and a certified etiquette trainer. Kristi and Jen dive into the growing issue of incivility in today's fast-paced world and its ripple effects on our mental health, productivity, and personal relationships. Discover how simple politeness can lead to more harmonious interactions and a thriving society, without sacrificing assertiveness or the ability to set clear boundaries.
Kristi's journey from a demanding 25-year career in journalism to the world of etiquette training offers an insightful backdrop to our conversation. Learn how the constant pressure and negative news cycle in journalism contributed to societal rudeness and her eventual burnout. Kristi's decision to study at the Emily Post Institute showcases the powerful shift from skepticism to compassion and the profound impact that assuming good intentions can have on communication and civility.
In our discussion, Kristi shares valuable strategies for navigating modern etiquette challenges, such as handling public rudeness and maintaining device-free family meals to foster meaningful connections. She introduces the CARE method for politely setting boundaries and highlights the importance of authenticity and preparation when dealing with interruptions. Tune in for practical advice on enhancing your communication skills and creating a more respectful and connected world.
Contact Kristi at https://www.thepolitecompany.com/
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
In today's episode, we are diving into a topic that
is incredibly relevant in ourcurrent climate.
Politeness and it's a topic, Iwill admit can be a huge
challenge for me at times Well,probably more often than I care
to admit which is why I'mthrilled to be joined by Christy
Spencer, who is an expert inpoliteness.
(00:21):
We're going to discuss why thisseemingly simple concept is
more crucial than ever.
According to the 2019 Civilityin America survey conducted by
Weber Shanwick, 93% of Americansidentify incivility as a major
problem and 68% believe it hasreached crisis levels.
(00:42):
Now, that was five years ago,and I think we could probably
all agree that those numbersmight be slightly elevated now.
This decline in civility notonly affects our personal
interactions, but also hassignificant implications for our
mental health, our productivityand overall well-being.
In our conversation, christysheds light on how practicing
(01:02):
politeness can enhance our dailyinteractions, improve
relationships and create a moreharmonious society.
We also discuss how beingpolite is often misunderstood as
being passive or overlysubmissive, but politeness and
assertiveness can coexist.
It doesn't mean being a doormat.
As a matter of fact, it'simportant to set boundaries and
(01:23):
say no when necessary, but itcan be done in a way that is
respectful and kind.
Ultimately, politeness is aboutbalance.
It's about being kind andrespectful to others while also
being true to yourself.
Keep listening if you want tolearn practical tips that will
help you do just that.
(02:13):
Welcome to the Communication24-7 podcast, where we
communicate about how wecommunicate.
So today we're going to talk alittle bit about politeness and
etiquette and rudeness and kidstoday All of those things.
How have things changed in oursociety over time?
(02:34):
And I'm really excited about mynext guest because she is an
expert in this field.
But I'm doubly excited aboutthis guest because she had her
start her career started as ajournalist, and so we're going
to kind of meld all of thistogether.
Y'all know with me, having ajournalism background and being
a media analyst for the pastseveral years, I've been really
(02:56):
concerned about how thehyper-partisan nature of the
news has had a negative impacton us and how we communicate
with one another.
I mean, it's only natural,right, whatever we consume, it's
going to have an impact on howwe perceive the world around us
and how we interact with othersaround us based on those
perceptions.
(03:17):
So I asked Christy to be on theshow today because we're going
to have a fantastic conversationabout all of those things.
Now let me do a quickintroduction and then I'm going
to ask Christy to expand on that.
So y'all, you know, get outyour notebooks and take some
(03:38):
good notes, because I know we'regoing to learn a lot about some
of the things that we maybehave lost in our society and we
may not want to admit it.
But you know, some of us couldprobably do with some, I guess,
some practice in this area.
I know I can.
I'll deal with some practice,but first let me do the
introduction and then we'll getstarted with the conversation
(03:59):
with Christy.
If you're not familiar withChristy Spencer, she is founder
of the Polite Company and withthe Polite Company it's based on
the principles of consideration, respect and honesty.
That's going to be it.
Let's put a pin in that,because I want to talk about
honesty as well.
As you know, how can we be kindand honest at the same time?
She's a certified etiquettetrainer and graduate of the
(04:23):
Emily Post Institute.
She has 25 years of experienceas a journalist and
businesswoman, uniquelyqualifying her to deliver the
message that good manners leadto successful personal and
professional relationships.
I 1000% agree with that, buty'all know I do.
Christy, thank you so much forbeing on the show and welcome.
Speaker 2 (04:46):
Well, thank you so much.
I'm so excited to talk with youtoday.
Speaker 1 (04:49):
Yeah this is going to be a lot of fun.
So that was the really quickversion of your bio, not
anywhere near enough tounderstand where you began in
this business, your experienceas a journalist.
Do you mind just taking us backto?
How did you decide to get intojournalism first, and then how
(05:12):
did that actually transfer overto what you're doing today?
Speaker 2 (05:17):
So I grew up and my the person that I admired the
most was Connie Chung, and Idon't know why in the world.
I thought that I could beConnie Chung when I grew up, but
she was somebody that Iidolized, and so having that
role model, having a family thatsat down and watched TV every
evening and watched the newstogether, was something that was
(05:38):
just ingrained in me, and sowhen I was in high school, I
took a class on being a radio DJ, and it was the first time that
I had somebody say you know,you're pretty good at this, you
might want to look into it.
And that's all it took for meto decide that I wanted to go
ahead.
I majored in broadcastjournalism, graduated from the
University of Kansas, and thenstarted my career in a nearby
(06:03):
station in Topeka, kansas, andthen went from there to another
station, which is not uncommonfor people to do.
What isn't common for people todo is to then stay there for 20
some years.
Usually, especially intelevision journalism, we're
staying for two years in oneplace and moving on, and moving
on, and I was a news director,and so I was hiring people for
(06:27):
those positions and I thoughtwhy do I need to leave, because
everything is always changingaround me, and so I really did
have the heart of a teacher andreally enjoyed working in local
news specifically, and that wasreally something that I love to
do, mainly because it is lesspartisan and we can reflect our
(06:50):
community without necessarilyreally interjecting a whole lot
of our opinions.
Of course, we can't say we'renever going to interject, that
that's where we come from.
We all come from a differentplace in life, but there was
really not the pressure to havean agenda when we're talking
about local news and ourcommunities.
Speaker 1 (07:12):
That is such a huge piece right there with the local
news.
You're so right it does tend tobe, I know, with looking at
news and rating it forreliability and bias.
The local news does tend to bea little higher on the
reliability scale and definitelymore centered as far as the
bias is concerned.
Do you have a lot of friendswho are still in the journalism
(07:35):
field and have they moved outinto more of the national news
system?
Have you heard a lot from themabout the pressure that exists
in the media ecosystem now totry to get you know?
Yeah, let's get the clicks.
Speaker 2 (07:51):
Right, there is a huge amount of pressure, and
there always has been, andregardless of social media,
that's a whole new thing.
But we've always been deadlinedriven, and so it takes a
certain kind of person that canlive on a deadline like that,
and not only live on it butthrive on it, and so it really
does take a competitive person.
(08:12):
It does take somebody that can,you know, dissociate themselves
from the events a little bit,because you might, you know,
start out at an announcement ofa new business and then you end
up at a crash scene or a fire oryou know something horrific
like that.
So I don't know that people,you know, people kind of make
fun of local news and we kind ofit's the butt of some jokes,
(08:33):
but really there are someamazing people that these are
not people that get picked up bylimos and there is no hair and
makeup and somebody picking outtheir wardrobe.
It is not nearly as glamorousas it might seem to other people
.
It's really, really hard work.
Speaker 1 (08:51):
I think that's probably one of the main reasons
the integrity behind local newshas been able to be so steady
in that way, when you thinkabout it, you're not worried
about being the celebrity.
Think about it, you're notworried about being the
celebrity, you're not worryingabout winning over, you know, or
advocating for a certainposition.
(09:11):
I find that when I'm watchingthe news or I'm listening to the
news, whenever I get an inklingthat someone is beginning to
advocate for a particularposition, I find myself backing
away from it, because Iimmediately know there's got to
be some type of an agenda behindthis, because there's too much
(09:32):
opinion being shared with thisand not enough of.
Okay, just give me the factreport, you know.
Just let me know what happenedwith this and I think also with
local news, because there issuch a quick turnaround with the
different segments.
Right, you've got a couple ofminutes to cover what's going on
with this, and so we need tolet you know what's going on,
(09:53):
and there's not a whole lot oftime to begin expanding on what
you think may or may not behappening or why it's important
and what might come next.
Speaker 2 (10:03):
Yeah, and you have to be even more quick than you
used to be able to.
So now you know we're talking a15-second story.
How in-depth can you get in 15seconds?
But that is kind of theattention span that we're
working with.
Television has the advantage ofhaving the visual aspect as
well, so that certainly helps.
That can also be a barriersometimes, because sometimes we
(10:26):
don't hear from certain peoplebecause they weren't able to
appear on camera.
Covid really did change that formany stations, because it was
no longer so important to beright in front of somebody else
with a camera in their face tobe able to get that interview.
Being able to see peoplethrough computer screens became
so much more normal, and I thinkthat that is one of the great
(10:47):
things.
And COVID didn't bring manygreat things, but that's one
thing that it did bring is thatwe don't have to always go with
the most available person thatmakes themselves available to us
.
We can go with the person who'sbest for the story, as long as
they have some way to get theirpicture up on the Internet.
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (11:07):
Do you have an opportunity to talk to younger
people who are either thinkingabout going into journalism or
maybe they're in college rightnow and they've already declared
journalism major.
They know this is what theywant to do for their career path
.
They know this is what theywant to do for their career path
.
Do you have an opportunity totalk to younger people about the
(11:29):
field of journalism and theethics that are so important
within journalism?
Speaker 2 (11:32):
You know, that is one thing that I really prided our
station for having the ethics.
We had a manual where we kindof went through scenarios and
what we would do in differentcases.
I think that that is somethingthat journalism students
definitely do learn now.
Now, when I speak to collegestudents, which are my favorite
(11:53):
audience to speak to, I'mtalking about etiquette, whether
that's social media etiquetteor dining etiquette or trying to
kind of help them shine insocial situations.
So I'm not really concentratingon the journalism as much as I
used to, although just with youtoday, you know the opportunity
to speak about it.
I always take advantage of thatbecause it was my first love.
Speaker 1 (12:15):
Yeah, and it permeates so much and, like I
was saying earlier, we may noteven necessarily realize it, but
the information that we areconsuming and the channels
through which we consume thisinformation, the different
organizations that we payattention to it, can't help but
to have an impact on how we'reperceiving not only that topic
(12:37):
that we're reading about, butnow it's impacting how we
perceive other people, based onthe things that we think they're
reading.
Now.
Know, now it's not enough tookay, I'm going to disagree with
you on that, but oh, you payattention to that news station,
so I immediately know you don'tknow what you're talking about,
right?
Yes, it seems like it hasgotten way worse over time.
(13:00):
Have you integrated any of thatwithin your etiquette training?
Do you find that as you'rescrolling through the news or as
you're scrolling through socialmedia, you find, oh man, this
is an excellent example.
I need to use this next time Italk to somebody about etiquette
and politeness.
Speaker 2 (13:21):
Yes, I'm a fan of Google Alert alerts, so anything
that comes up etiquette orsomething like that that I'm
always sharing with people.
I just shared with clientstoday a new study that 60% of
companies are going to besending their employees to
etiquette training this year,which I'm like that's the best
news that I've heard all year,for sure, but I think that that
awareness is is important, butit's also important to think
(13:46):
that we're more fragmented thanwe have ever been.
Like you said, if you identifywith one news station, then that
is something that people make alot of assumptions about you
just for what you say.
Oh, I saw this on such and such.
Again, of course, people think,oh, you're watching this or
that, or you're listening tothis or that, and I think that
(14:07):
listening to anything orwatching anything or reading
anything too much, or makingthat the center of your
conversations is not a good lookfor your social skills or your
etiquette, either one.
Speaker 1 (14:22):
So take me through.
You had this amazing career injournalism.
You were happy with where youwere and you embedded in the
community, I'm sure, and just itseemed like it was a really
fantastic job that you were ableto have with that career path
that you had developed at thelocal news station that you had
(14:45):
developed at the local newsstation.
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(15:07):
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(15:49):
How did you make the decision,or even why did you make the
decision, to transition out ofjournalism and then go after
this new career path in teachingothers about etiquette and all
of those things?
Speaker 2 (16:03):
You know, it's like so many stories.
We all evaluated our livesduring COVID and we had to make
a decision.
Is, you know, is this way thatI'm making my living the way
that I want to live my life?
And for me, 25 years was a longtime to live that life and to
really, regardless of thepositivity that you would try to
(16:26):
bring to it, it's verydifficult to do that in
journalism.
For decades it gets to youhonestly, burnout for journalism
is incredibly high, you know.
Maybe you know four to fiveyears is, you know, a typical
lifespan For a news director.
The position that I had, twoyears, was the norm.
(16:46):
For how long somebody wouldstay in that position?
Just because, again, we talkedabout the deadlines.
We're talking about, you know,we're going through tornadoes,
fires, you know really horriblethings that happen to children
and we're living that, and alongwith the deadlines there's the
long hours and so that kind ofall accumulated and what
(17:07):
journalism did for me and whatlocal news did for me in those
decades was amazing.
But I decided that I was goingto fulfill a dream and take an
etiquette class from the EmilyPost Institute, which really, I
mean you look at etiquette andyou look at a newsroom and these
are two different universes forsure and I decided I liked
(17:29):
universe B better and to be ableto spend the rest of my working
life and career helping people,and it really is similar to
what I did with reporters andanchors.
We would try to make themappear as professional as
possible, help them communicatea message, help them be
(17:52):
trustworthy and reliable, andthat translates really well to
everyone else in the universewho is trying to build a brand
for themselves and who want tolook at leadership through those
consideration, respect andhonesty values.
Speaker 1 (18:09):
Yeah, so you had mentioned it being like night
and day the etiquette in thenewsroom versus what you were
learning when you went to theEmily Post Institute.
What were some of those?
I don't know if you would callthem bad habits, but what were
some of those things that yourealized?
Maybe this okay, I'm going tohave to shift this now I've.
(18:31):
We don't want to have gulliblejournalists that'll fall for
anything, but it's alsoimportant to assume good
intentions of people as opposedto they're up to something.
Speaker 2 (18:53):
So that was a big switch for me.
I think there were.
There were so many things thatit was just really just being
able to kind of dig in andrelish that positivity.
When I was being my reporterself and I was investigating
different programs and what Iwanted to maybe invest in, and I
talked to people, my biggestrevelation was that everyone was
(19:17):
so nice that I talked to.
Now, as a journalist, you mightcall 100 people in a day and
you might find two nice ones whoare going to treat you nicely.
So that was definitely a switchfor me and I thought, oh my
gosh, they're so nice.
And then I thought, well,that's the deal, that's why
we're here, that's what this jobgets to do agree with people
(19:41):
and decline invitations andthose kinds of things.
Speaker 1 (19:45):
But really it is rooted in great positive just
all the good things Right andnot making that assumption that
there's some nefarious purposebehind whatever the decision is
that somebody's making.
I never thought about thatbefore.
That is so true.
I do tend to be more of acritical listener, critically
(20:09):
minded person.
It is hard, especially with thenews that you consume today.
It just seems like everythingis so negative and it's just
compounded and negativity and itcan be incredibly difficult to
to recognize what type of impactthat is having on your
(20:32):
perception of the world aroundyou.
I'm so glad you had mentionedthat, though that's one of the
revelations that you had aboutthe assumptions that we make
about others and theirintentions.
I think it's really easy for usto forget that.
I know it's easy for me toforget that, especially when you
get so embedded with everythingthat's going on.
(20:52):
You know, in the world todayit's so easy to assume negative
intentions.
Speaker 2 (20:58):
You know, on someone else's part, yeah, yeah, what's
interesting now is we used tohave a saying is that if your
mother tells you that she loves,you get a second source.
And now it's really nice thatwhen my mom tells me she loves
me, I just go ahead and believeher.
Speaker 1 (21:15):
Yeah, yeah.
So, yeah, I don't want to beatup on journalism so much.
It's not all negative and it'snot all doom and gloom, and I
know there are a lot of otherthings that are happening within
our society that is having sometype of impact on our ability
to communicate with one anothereffectively, and I know
(21:37):
etiquette, politeness, is a hugepiece of that.
What are some of the thingsthat you're recognizing?
What are some of the changesthat have occurred in our
society over the past maybe youknow couple of decades that you
have found these are some reallycritical issues that, while I'm
talking about etiquette, whileI'm talking about politeness,
(22:00):
this is getting at the core ofsome of the things that's going
on in our society.
Have you, have you run acrossanything that you've recognized
as, yeah, you know, not justjournalism, but these are some
other things that are happeningin our society that is creating
this division and this is makingit more challenging for us to
(22:20):
be polite with one another.
Speaker 2 (22:23):
Well, we, the reason that we are sometimes uncivil to
one another is always becauseof stress.
And in the past few years, youknow, has anybody had any stress
, you know?
I mean we were at home, we wereworking from home, we were
trying to manage that, and thensomebody tells us we have to
teach our own kids and you know,stress on steroids all that
(22:44):
stress really makes us focusinward, and when we're looking
inward, we're not seeing howwe're impacting those around us.
And when we're looking inward,we're not seeing how we're
impacting those around us.
And when we lose that awarenessand we become all about me,
then we're exhibiting rudebehavior, and that's where a lot
of that comes from.
And so I think it is helpful tothink of it as stress, because
(23:07):
I think of us as a society.
We recognize how dangerous andhow unhealthy stress can be, but
we just think of rudeness aspeople who don't know how to
behave properly.
So when you put it in thatframe of what's that person
going through, what's stressingthem in their life, how can I
make it better?
If you knew that somebody wasstressed because they had a
(23:30):
stress-o-eter on their shirt andyou could see what their stress
was, how would you treat them?
Speaker 1 (23:35):
Would you?
Speaker 2 (23:36):
treat them a little bit more kind.
Would you treat them with alittle more patience?
So, even when we encounter thatrudeness in other people, first
we need to look at ourselvesand make sure that we are not
the ones who are being rude inthat situation it's so much
easier to see it in other peoplethan it is to see in ourselves
(23:56):
but also is to recognize whatmight be prompting that person
to feel that way.
And sometimes that takes timeand we are a rush, rush, rush.
You know world.
And so taking that time andtreating people with that
respect, knowing that some ofthat incivility comes from
stressors, I think it's a goodplace to start.
Speaker 1 (24:18):
Okay, yeah, that's a good place to start.
It is incredibly difficultbecause, you know, we see
examples all the time on socialmedia, whenever we're watching
television, listening topodcasts.
There are no shortage ofexamples of people being rude
with one another, and some areextreme examples.
(24:38):
Some people, like you weresaying, we look at these as
people who are behaving badly,and that could be someone who is
destroying a work of art at aat a museum, or someone who
interrupts someone at dinner youknow they're a public person,
like a congressperson or someonelike that interrupting them at
dinner because they feel sostrongly about whatever the
(25:00):
topic is you know they'readvocating for.
Or if you're a public speaker,you're staying on stage and
you're trying to do apresentation and then there's
someone trying to shut you downwhile you're doing your
presentation.
Those are extreme examples, butit does seem like, at least,
that these examples are becomingmore and more common and it's
(25:24):
really concerning.
At least it feels like it'sheading in that direction.
When you're doing your trainingand you're having these
conversations, do you ever speakwith people who do
presentations?
They get on the stage?
Do you ever have conversationswith them about?
Yeah, if this were to happen toyou.
(25:45):
This could be a better way tohandle the heckler or someone
who's trying to shout you down.
How do you deal with that ifyou're on stage and that happens
to you?
Speaker 2 (25:56):
I think it really depends on your personality and
what you can pull off.
I mean, humor is a great one.
You know, we see that all thetime.
You know somebody's, you knowthe president speaking, and
somebody's heckling Okay, well,how do you handle that?
Now, what do we remember aboutthat interaction?
We don't remember, maybe, whatthe heckler said, or we don't
remember what the president wassaying, but what we do remember
(26:19):
is how they handled it.
Speaker 1 (26:20):
Okay.
Speaker 2 (26:21):
And so so much of that is not how you're going to
handle it, or it's not thatyou're going to handle it,
because you're going to havesome reaction, whether it's
humor or whether it's asking forthat person to be removed.
But the important thing is howyou do that, and what we need to
think of is, before you get onstage way before you get on
stage decide how you're going tohandle that and what you can
(26:44):
pull off and what seemsauthentic to you.
So that's my best advice topeople is when you're up there
and it happens is not the timeto start thinking about what
your reaction is going to be.
So that is as important as thecue cards that you're having or
the parts of the speech thatyou're using.
It is to think about how you'regoing to react and be able to
(27:07):
show some grace when thingsdon't go well, because that is
what reveals our true politenessand our sophistication and our
poise.
Speaker 1 (27:18):
Mentioning true politeness.
How do you arrive at that happymedium?
Because I know okay.
So an honest reaction.
I know my personality, like youjust said, it just depends on
your personality and how youmight go about handling that.
I can have a sense of humor,but I also know, depending on,
(27:41):
like you said, how stressed I amor how irritated I am, I could
very easily just have a verynegative response to that
situation and probably make it alittle worse.
If I'm going to be honest withyou, how do you develop that
ability to have that politenessin a way that it's not a fake
(28:05):
politeness?
Do you know what I'm saying?
Because we all learn about,okay, be polite.
How do you internalize that tothe point where it does become a
part of your personality, or isthat even possible?
Is that possible for somebodylike me to internalize?
Speaker 2 (28:23):
I absolutely think so .
I think so.
You know, we become what we'rearound and what we want to be
and what we concentrate on.
So if you're a person whoconcentrates on negative things
all the time, of course that'sgoing to come out in your
interactions, so it's reallywhat you decide to surround
yourself with.
I think being able to have agood comeback is great, but it's
(28:48):
again that sincerity and theway in which you say it that is
so important.
So we can all say, you know,thank you in a myriad of ways.
Where it can be sarcastic, itcan be, you know, not genuine
because we're not lookingsomebody in the eye, and that
that those phrases work foreverything.
So there's, there's a way thatyou can pull off that
(29:10):
interjection or that humor thatreally makes it authentic
towards you.
So I think that that's theimportant thing.
It's not that you're going toreclaim the stage.
Here's another television jargonis that you have the mic and
the heckler doesn't get the lastword.
The person with the microphonedoes.
So I think it's you know goodto recognize that you have that
(29:32):
power in that situation.
And you know and as in anyetiquette faux pas we talk about
, it's that you admit it youapologize and you move on.
Do not dwell on the droppedfork or the piece of spinach
that you had in your teeth.
It is just admitting,apologizing and moving on, and
that's good for so many thingsin life.
Speaker 1 (29:53):
Oh, that is so true.
I have said that exact samething.
I taught public speaking at thecollege level for many years.
We've had very similarconversations that look, you can
.
You can pretty much depend thatsomething wrong is going to
happen in your presentation.
It's just, that's life.
There is no such thing as aperfect presentation.
If you make a mistake, don'tdwell on it, don't call
(30:15):
attention to it.
Really Just you know.
They don't know what youpracticed.
As far as they're concerned,everything that you have done on
stage, that's all a part ofyour master plan, right?
So don't make a big deal out ofit, because when you make a big
deal out of it, then that'smost likely going to be what
they recall right Later on.
That's what they're going toremember later on With you had
(30:38):
mentioned COVID earlier and itmade me think of a question.
I want to.
I want to circle back around tothat.
We had so many things change inCOVID, including our ideas of
greetings, what is appropriateversus what is inappropriate.
It used to be the typicalwisdom of the day you meet
(31:00):
someone new, you shake theirhand, you look them in the eye,
you have a firm handshake, andthat was the rule of the day,
and then COVID happened, and nowit's all of a sudden.
Do we do fist bumps?
Can I shake hands?
Do we do the whole elbow thing?
What is everybody doingnowadays?
I mean, covid is I mean I thinkthere are still people you know
(31:23):
getting COVID now, but it'snowhere near as prevalent as it
was during the pandemic itself.
But it seems like we still havesome leftover confusion as to
how do you meet someone now, howdo you greet them?
What's the appropriate thing todo now?
Speaker 2 (31:43):
So this is.
You know, what I love aboutetiquette is there was never a
better time to jump intoetiquette than after COVID, for
sure, because so many things didchange.
It brought so many issues tolight.
The best thing to do is to beable to shake hands with
somebody.
I think that we're back at thatstage.
The other thing is is that youare not required to where it
(32:05):
used to be very, very impolite Imean deal breaker.
If you're somebody who doesn'tshake hands, I think now it's
okay not to shake hands, but youhave to be able to convey that
message before the other personsticks out their hand.
By the time somebody sticks outtheir hand, you really have to
shake it.
After that point, if you needto be discreet and run to the
(32:28):
bathroom, use some hand gel,wash your hands, whatever you
need to do to make yourself feelbetter about that, but then
know next time where you justsay I'm not a handshaker, kind
of like we used to say I'm not ahugger or I'm not back to
shaking hands, but it is sayingthat before the other person
approaches you.
That makes that work.
I don't think anyone's going toblame you for that.
We're hopefully all stillgiving each other some room to
(32:57):
have different opinions on that,but I think that it is
important that you say thatfirst before they stick their
hand out.
Speaker 1 (33:00):
Yeah, Is there a better way to say it than other
ways?
You know, I'm imagining myselfmeeting someone for the first
time, walking into the room andI do feel kind of funny going I
don't, I don't shake hands yet,or I'm not back to shaking hands
yet.
How, how do you suggest someonewho really is uncomfortable
(33:23):
with shaking hands still withothers, how do they do that in a
way that doesn't come off?
As you know, it's not sooff-putting.
Speaker 2 (33:32):
I think you can say something as easy, as I'm not up
to shaking hands yet.
Put it on yourself, of course.
Don't say you look like you'reJeremy.
Just say you know I'm not up toshaking hands yet.
Or if you can come up with alittle joke you know, it's like
I'm not shaking hands because ofCOVID, something like that that
you can come up with a littlejoke you know, it's like I'm not
shaking hands because of COVID,something like that that you
can come up and say to peopleand I think it again it's, it's
(34:01):
how you say that, how youpresent it that is the biggest
thing.
Speaker 1 (34:03):
Yeah, okay, I'm the weirdo I'm absolutely.
You know, right now I'm kind ofweird right now.
I'm just making eye contacttoday, that's right, I have not
gotten over the weirdness and Ido appreciate that you said be
discreet.
If you do end up in a positionwhere you do shake someone's
hands, I think the worst thingthat you could do is immediately
run over to your purse and grabyour huge bottle of hand
(34:23):
sanitizer and start bathing init.
That's probably not going tocome across as very nice, right.
Speaker 2 (34:31):
Yeah, people don't want to be reminded of how germy
that they are Right.
Speaker 1 (34:35):
That's generally not a good idea, especially when
you're first meeting someone.
So that's one of the thingsthat did seem to shift during
COVID.
Are there some other points ofetiquette that you saw shifted?
That's the most obvious one,you know, with the shaking hands
(34:55):
.
What are some other, I guessmajor etiquette finds, if you
will, that seem to have changedthrough the pandemic?
Speaker 2 (35:06):
I think another big one was virtual meetings.
We were not as adept at doingthat before COVID and now we are
used to doing that, and thatcomes with a myriad of issues,
whether it's cameras on how latedo you wait for somebody when
they're going to be entering aZoom meeting?
There's a whole list of thingsthat that brings up.
Issues of shared spaces at workand going back to work.
(35:31):
Those are all brand new things.
Dress codes relaxed so muchduring COVID that some people
are wanting to maybe notch thatback up in the workplace, and we
were used to only dressing, youknow, waist up for things, and
now it's important to wear thewhole outfit to work.
So it really did bring up somany things.
(35:53):
From how we interacted socially, you know we had fewer parties
how our children learned mannersthey weren't around as many
people at that time.
So it really, as etiquetteimpacts every point of our life,
so did COVID, and when thosetwo things get together, there's
a laundry list of things thatare different now than they were
(36:14):
then.
Speaker 1 (36:15):
Yeah, what are you recommending in the workplace?
I think one of the other shiftsalso is the idea of showing up
on time.
You know, like I view showingup on time as incredibly
important.
I think I view it as being rudeto everybody else if I'm going
to be late.
You know, I and I don't know,maybe that's because of my age,
(36:38):
I not quite sure, but it seemslike that's another aspect of I
don't know if it's COVID ormaybe kids today.
You know the whole thing.
What do you say toorganizations that are in the
midst of trying to get everybodyto come back into work and,
like you said, sometimes there'sgoing to be shared spaces.
(37:00):
There's the conversation aboutdress code, there's a
conversation about getting thereon time.
Is there like a maybe the topthree things that you have
immediately that you tellorganizations?
All right, these are going tobe some things that you need to
be prepared for and this is howto get through those challenges
(37:22):
effectively.
Speaker 2 (37:24):
Well, I can't think of any etiquette lesson that I
do give that doesn't start withbe on time, whether that is
wedding etiquette, diningetiquette, it is meeting
etiquette.
You know, whatever it is, tostart off late is a really bad
start, because then you'restarting with an apology or
you're starting with, you knowthat, that unknowing feeling
(37:45):
between you two.
So for me, lateness and ontimeness.
So for me, lateness and ontimeness, wasn't that impacted
by COVID?
I think it might be impactedjust by generations and you know
that kind of thing.
But really being on time meansbeing somewhere.
If that's a dining situation,you've got plus or minus five
(38:07):
minutes.
If it's a business situation,you best be in your chair five
minutes before whatever issupposed to begin begins.
If it's a wedding there, that'sa 30 minutes early before the
ceremony starts.
So so there's so many differentsituations that being on time
and being punctual meansdifferently just in our culture,
(38:27):
let alone when we go to othercultures, what that can be like.
But for me I think it's, youknow, just being aware that
rarely is on the dot at thestart time on time.
Speaker 1 (38:40):
Are you enjoying the Communication 24-7 podcast?
I certainly hope so.
I'd like to invite you tobecome a subscriber today.
Your support is trulyappreciated and as a subscriber,
you'll get a shout out in afuture episode.
Find the subscription link inthe show notes or on our website
.
Thank you for helping us keepthe conversation alive.
Right, yeah, yeah, that is socrucial.
(39:02):
I don't understand why that hasbeen something that seems to be
a point of contention in theworkforce today.
The entire argument of whyshould I have to be here at 8 am
.
What's the big deal?
How does a manager toeffectively communicate to their
(39:22):
employee why it's importantthat we all do this?
What advice would you give tothat manager who is struggling
with that employee who justdoesn't get it?
Speaker 2 (39:34):
Yeah, I would work on the self-awareness you know.
So what would it make you feellike if somebody arrived late
for your meeting or,consistently, was 20 minutes
late, for you know, a phone call, that's a long time, and the
way that you feel about that ishow the other person feels about
it.
And so I think sometimesself-awareness is that you know,
(39:56):
I tell people set alarms onyour phone.
We have this wonderfultechnology that don't think
about when you need to besomeplace.
We have this wonderfultechnology that don't think
about when you need to besomeplace.
Think about when you need toleave your house or when you
need to arrive at work.
Not just you know running in thedoor, you know getting the
tires and getting into your seaton time.
(40:21):
Think about the pluses and theadvantages that you have when
you go to a job interview andyou get to the parking lot 15
minutes ahead of the interviewand then you're able to collect
your thoughts, make sure thatyour tie is straight and you
don't have any lipstick on yourteeth and you walk in five
minutes early.
That's right.
That's a huge advantage thatyou're going to have over the
person who waited as long aspossible, got stuck in traffic,
had a flat tire, you know,subway didn't come on time, all
(40:44):
of those kinds of things.
And I tell people it's as easyto be the person who was always
late as it is to be the personwho was always on time.
It just takes that shift inyour mindset and maybe you know
a few of those helpful toolslike alarms and things like that
to help us out.
But there is something, thereis a wonderful thing that
(41:05):
happens to your reputation whenyou are the person who is on
time.
Speaker 1 (41:10):
Right and, like you said that, just that mental
preparedness, arriving early atthe interview, give yourself
some time to be able to just notbe so frazzled.
Do your power poses beforehandright so you feel all confident.
So etiquette is something thatit's one of those unspoken,
(41:32):
unwritten rule kind of thingthat we tend to learn through
experience.
You know, you learn reallyquickly when you do the wrong
thing, when you're you know whenyou're in mixed company.
So how early should parents atleast start focusing on helping
their kids learn properetiquette, so that maybe those
(41:55):
lessons aren't as brutal as theycould be if they're not
starting in the home?
Speaker 2 (42:01):
I think mealtimes are a great time to practice all
sorts of etiquette.
So I encourage families to haveas many meals.
That may not be dinner time foreveryone, everyone's schedules
are different but to have asmany meals together as a family
or one-on-one time that isdevice-free so that's no screens
(42:22):
, no TV, no tablets, no cellphones and be able to have those
conversations.
So what happens at the dinnertable is we're talking to one
another.
We're having conversationskills.
We are learning empathy whenwe're talking to one another and
telling them about our day.
We're learning to give otherpeople our attention, along with
(42:43):
learning how to hold a fork anddo all of those kinds of things
.
But I think having as manymoments like that that you can
with your children to talk abouthere's what we value.
Here's you know what'simportant about your day, what
was the worst thing about yourday?
You know we talk about some ofthose conversation topics that
are off limits when we aredining out or dining with others
(43:06):
.
We don't know very well.
But, those are exactly the kindsof things that parents and kids
should be talking about aroundthat dining table and we're
probably going to be eatinganyway and so I think that
that's an easy place to insertsome manners, and I don't think
it's ever too early.
You know, we teach our kidsearly on.
(43:26):
Some of those first words areplease and thank you, and it's
so important and we prompt thosekids over and over and over
again to say please and thankyou when they're little.
We need to remember that thatprompt needs to come more often
than that and when they're oldenough to understand using
please and thank you I'm sorry,excuse me.
(43:46):
Those words have power, and tobe able to use them properly is
really some a gift that we cangive our kids.
Yeah, Okay.
Speaker 1 (43:56):
So, parents who are listening, I'm challenging you
right now.
Pay attention.
Mealtime Is the iPad out, isthe phone out?
You are not doing your kids anyfavors, and this has been my
soapbox for so long.
I have an expert in the housethat is confirming what I've
(44:18):
been saying all along.
Look, christy Spencer said itMake sure, get rid of the
technology.
And that's how you encouragethe conversations and that's how
we teach our kids how to dothat, those manners that are so
important at the table.
And if you're the parent thatyou're immediately sitting your
(44:38):
kid down and you're plopping aniPad in front of them because
you just want peace and quiet,that's really not doing them any
favors.
If anything, it's really.
It's going to cause a challengedown the road for them.
It's really going to impedetheir ability to not only
(44:58):
communicate effectively but justto even understand those social
norms that we all need to beaware of, you know, in order to
function in society.
Are you like me that you go outto a restaurant and when you
see the iPad come out, you kindof get that little twitch go up
(45:19):
your spine.
Speaker 2 (45:21):
Well, and I understand why parents do it,
and they really do it with thebest intentions because they're
not wanting their child tobother anyone else.
But they're really making a hugetrade-off when they do that and
that is, you know, teachingyour child patience those
conversation skills that we weretalking about, having your
child know that what they say isimportant to you and that you
(45:44):
will listen and that all ofthose things you place above the
convenience of others.
And sometimes that can bereally hard, especially
depending on the sitting thatwe're in, but the trade-off is
that you don't have to give thatiPad to your child for years
and years to come.
They learn you know kind ofthose social norms and to fit in
(46:06):
.
And you know one thing we seewith teenagers especially, and
we're recognizing anxiety is sohigh among our young people and
a lot of that it comes fromeating in front of people too.
That causes a lot of anxietyfor people and so when we're not
sharing those skills and givingthem those little tips and
tricks so that they know how tomanage their food and those
(46:29):
kinds of things, we're doingthem a disservice by always
placating them with that phoneand trying to keep them quiet.
For other people, I justencourage people and especially
if you're a family who hasdinner at home twice a week make
one of those meals device-free.
If you can't cut the cordcompletely, do one more than
(46:52):
you're doing now and then see ifyou can increase it and I've
offered pledges on my websitewhere people can go and just
download it.
Put your names on it.
We pledge to have one moredevice-free dinner together a
week and put it on the fridge sothat you're all accountable and
I'll tell you.
You know, I have a teenage sonand if it's just him and I one
(47:12):
night having dinner, you knowI'll try to sneak my cell phone
to the table and, you know, do acouple emails thinking, oh,
he's 17.
He's not going to notice and hecalls me out.
Yeah you trained him and it'sbecause you know I've given him
(47:33):
that respect.
Yes, and he knows that you knowhe he's deserving of that
respect.
And and plus, it's fun to callmom the etiquette expert out on
something too.
But but what we, what we teachour kids, we're going to get
back from them and we're goingto want their attention someday.
And we're going to want theirattention someday and we're
going to want them to have goodtable manners someday.
And that's not going to happenin a vacuum.
Speaker 1 (47:49):
Yeah, yeah.
So I like your idea of, if youcan't cut the cord completely,
dedicate that one night a weekand then you can move it, you
know, expand off of that, geteverybody comfortable with the
device free Wednesday dinner andthen expand on that throughout
the week, Cause it really doesmake a huge difference.
(48:11):
I also that was a rule in myhouse.
My kids are in their twentiesnow, but that was a rule in my
house no devices at the table.
That drove me nuts and whenthey would have friends come
over they would warn them no, nodevices at the table.
My mom's going to take it and Iwould take their devices.
Talk to me, let's have aconversation.
Speaker 2 (48:34):
I don't think we're ever going to look back and say,
oh, I wish I would have had mychildren on social media or on
their phones more.
That's just not something thatwe're going to do.
We know that now.
We don't need hindsight to tellus that that's going to be how
we feel.
So I think that recognize thatand moving in a way that's
consistent with that isimportant.
Speaker 1 (48:55):
Yeah, and I am so appreciative that you mentioned
the anxiety piece with teenagerstoday Again, taking it back to
the dinner table in the home,just giving them that time to be
able to have that meal togetherand have the conversations, no
devices encouraging them to havethose conversations.
That's what's going to make theimpact when they are having
(49:19):
meals outside of the home lunch,dinner, whatever it is.
I'm so glad that you brought upthat aspect of it.
Another thing I did want totouch on and we're starting to
run short on time, but I wantedto make sure that I got this
question in because it'sincredibly important to a lot of
people.
We have an inability, or atleast we're uncomfortable with
(49:41):
saying no a lot of times.
I know that that has beensomething that I've struggled
with in the past.
I have so many friends whostruggle with that because we
feel like, in some way, if we'resaying no, am I being mean?
Am I disappointing them?
You know, is this, maybe thisis my responsibility?
I'm just not sure.
Can you take us through, sinceyou are the expert here, take us
(50:05):
through the art of saying noand why it is okay to say no, to
have those boundaries?
Speaker 2 (50:15):
Well, this is one of my favorite questions, jen, so
I'm really glad that we havetime to talk about it.
So when I talk about saying no,I like to help people remember
this process by using the wordcare.
So the C in care is whensomebody asks you for a favor or
to go somewhere, you firstconsider.
So that's the C in care.
(50:36):
Is you consider their request?
So really fast yes means youmight regret it will likely
regret saying yes.
And a really quick no meansthat you didn't even give it any
thought.
So the first thing to do isconsider.
The first thing you say to themwhen you are talking to them is
you appreciate the ask.
So I'm so glad that you askedme to do this.
(50:58):
I'm so glad that you love mycupcakes so much that you've
asked me to cook them for thebake sale again this year.
And then the R in care standsfor your response.
And that is when you would sayI'm not able to do it, I'm not
comfortable with doing it.
Whatever that response is,that's the R in care.
(51:18):
And then E stands for empathize.
So after you've given yourreason.
And then E stands for empathize.
So after you've given yourreason.
Sit back and listen to what thatperson says to you and
understand that they're in abind, that they'd really like
you to do something.
Don't change your answer, butjust listen to them.
And when you use that careapproach and you end with
(51:39):
listening to them, they will notremember that you said no,
which is absolutely within yourright to do if it's not your
responsibility or you don't havetime to do it, but they will
remember how you treated themand that you listened, and that
will be more valuable to themthan probably whatever they were
asking you to do.
Speaker 1 (52:01):
Yeah.
I really like that.
I just had this conversationtoday.
I had lunch with some friendsearlier and we were talking
about when people ask you to dosomething and that's why I love
this question right now and howdo you say no politely?
You know, at work one of myfriends had been asked by
another nurse you know, sheworks at the hospital if she
(52:23):
could work the following day andshe had taken the day off.
And she said no, because I havea doctor's appointment.
And then the other nursefollowed up with oh well, what
time is your appointment, youknow?
And so it opened that door forthe other nurse to kind of
wiggle their way in to try toforce, you know, a yes out of
(52:45):
her.
My way of dealing with that is,I feel like you don't owe
anybody an explanation.
I mean, you can politely say no, I'm not able to do that, and
then let that be it.
What's your advice insituations like that?
I know that we are so temptedto provide reasons as to say no.
I know that we are so temptedto provide reasons as to say no
because I think we feel guiltyin some way or we feel like we
(53:06):
don't want to be mean in someway to that person.
So what do you say to thereasons?
No but or no because just don'toffer it, or do you think it's
a good idea?
Speaker 2 (53:19):
It really is situational no-transcript to get
(53:44):
ourselves backed into a cornerby kind of giving a fib to
somebody or giving them too muchinformation, where again they
have the wiggle room to try tochange our opinion.
But we can always just say thisis really important to me, or
I'm not comfortable doing thator I'm not able to help.
And I think that those, thoseare all true and you can deliver
that with that honesty andsincerity and not give that
(54:08):
person the idea that maybe thereis a little bit of wiggle room,
because when we are sayingsomething that it may not be
100% the truth, people can tellthat in our voice.
And so it's important just toyou know, be comfortable saying
no.
Just because people ask aquestion.
They are not expecting you tosay yes.
And if they're a person who'sexpecting you to say yes, you
(54:31):
know I guess it's your, it'syour time to give them a lesson
on, you know, realisticexpectations from people.
But people are going to say noand as long as you do it in a
polite, honest and considerateway, I again I think you can
actually build that relationshipas opposed to hurt it.
Speaker 1 (54:47):
Yeah, that is wonderful.
I know a lot of people rightnow are going.
Okay, not only can I say no,but now I know how to say no and
start with some really lowstakes things.
Speaker 2 (55:00):
You know, don't.
Don don't start saying no thefirst time your boss asks you to
stay late.
That is not the time topractice this.
You know care method.
Use it for lower stakes, use itwith your kids, talk to your
dog.
You know whatever you have todo to get comfortable with that
conversation and if you knowthat that is coming again, when
you take that moment to pauseand consider the request, that
(55:22):
gives you the time to put therest of things in place before
you give your answer.
Speaker 1 (55:28):
Okay that is wonderful.
So if there's someone out therewho is for the first time
hearing all about this stuff,they're like wow, there's a
whole world of information thatI'm not familiar with and it
sounds like I probably shouldget familiar with this, whether
they're an adult, a teenager, ormaybe they're a parent who
(55:48):
they're interested in trying tofigure out how to integrate
etiquette lessons, you know, atthe dinner table or just
throughout the home.
What advice do you have?
Give us your website, and arethere any reading materials or
things that they can download orwhat can they grab to kind of
help them as they begin thisjourney?
Speaker 2 (56:09):
So what we were just talking about the care approach
and I also give 10 ways to sayno politely is a download on my
website and you can find that atthepolitecompanycom Company is
spelled out.
So it's the polite companycom.
I think that other resources,of course.
I'm a graduate of the EmilyPost Institute.
They just came out with a booklast year that updated a hundred
(56:32):
years worth of etiquette, whichis fantastic for people to have
as a resource.
There's all sorts of othernewspaper columns and when you
it's funny when you startlooking for the word etiquette
and manners and politeness, howoften you will hear it in a day.
So just by having thatawareness and kind of checking
those kinds of things out, Ithink that we'll we'll
(56:53):
understand that etiquette issomething that's evolved and
it's modern.
It's not something that'santiquated.
That our grandmas did and we'reno longer doing that.
We are still 100% doingetiquette.
So I just want people to beaware of it and know that there
is a way that you can make apositive impact on people's
lives without putting yourfeelings, your time or anything
(57:17):
else in jeopardy.
Speaker 1 (57:18):
That is wonderful, because I know that that usually
is a concern.
Okay, I know I need to bepolite and all that, but I also
don't want to be a doormat, andthat's not what we're talking
about here at all.
Speaker 2 (57:29):
Yes, being polite does not equal being a pushover.
Speaker 1 (57:32):
No, not at all Any parting, words of wisdom or
anything that we had not had achance to talk about before we
wrap up today.
Speaker 2 (57:42):
I'm just so appreciative to talk to you.
I mean, it's not often I get towrap you know two of my
favorite things into one podcastinterview.
So this has been an absolutetreat and I appreciate your time
so much and I appreciate theaudience's time as well.
So thank you so much Of course,christy.
Speaker 1 (58:00):
It has been so great having you on the show.
This is going to be a reallypopular episode.
I think we answered a lot ofquestions that talk about
anxiety.
People get anxiety over thisstuff, so, those of you who are
listening, I hope that you dotake a moment, go over to
Christy's website, check it out,download all of those things
(58:21):
that she had just mentioned, andshe gave some fantastic advice
on things that you can look uponline.
I hope you take advantage ofthat.
I definitely will make sure tohave a link to her website in
the show notes, as well as hercontact information.
If you want to get in touchwith her directly, I'm sure she
won't mind, absolutely not.
Yeah, go ahead and reach out toher with any questions that you
(58:43):
might have.
So once again, christy, thankyou so much for taking time out
of your day to record thisepisode with me, and, just like
you, I was really excited to beable to talk about journalism
and etiquette at the same time.
Okay, politeness, this isawesome.
This all kind of wraps up intoa nice, neat little package for
me, the best of both worlds asfar as I'm concerned.
(59:04):
Listeners.
I hope you enjoyed this andgive it some food for thought.
Okay, give it.
Give it some time, mull thingsover and start practicing it.
And it's a skill just like anyother skill.
We got to practice at it to getgood at it.
So don't get frustrated ifyou're not knocking it out of
the park.
You know first thing whenyou're trying this stuff,
because that's not how it works.
(59:25):
It's a little bit at a day and,just like Christy said, a lot
of it is situational, so itdepends.
So, be kind to yourself and bekind to others.
Extend grace all around,because I think we all could use
a little more grace.
All right, so I'm getting offof my soapbox now.
All right, everybody, have awonderful rest of your day and
(59:50):
we will see you next time.
Bye, thanks for listening.
If you enjoyed this episode andyou'd like to help support the
podcast, please share it withothers, post about it on social
media or leave a rating and areview.
In today's episode, we are diving into a topic that
is incredibly relevant in ourcurrent climate.
Politeness and it's a topic, Iwill admit can be a huge
challenge for me at times Well,probably more often than I care
to admit which is why I'mthrilled to be joined by Christy
Spencer, who is an expert inpoliteness.
(00:21):
We're going to discuss why thisseemingly simple concept is
more crucial than ever.
According to the 2019 Civilityin America survey conducted by
Weber Shanwick, 93% of Americansidentify incivility as a major
problem and 68% believe it hasreached crisis levels.
(00:42):
Now, that was five years ago,and I think we could probably
all agree that those numbersmight be slightly elevated now.
This decline in civility notonly affects our personal
interactions, but also hassignificant implications for our
mental health, our productivityand overall well-being.
In our conversation, christysheds light on how practicing
(01:02):
politeness can enhance our dailyinteractions, improve
relationships and create a moreharmonious society.
We also discuss how beingpolite is often misunderstood as
being passive or overlysubmissive, but politeness and
assertiveness can coexist.
It doesn't mean being a doormat.
As a matter of fact, it'simportant to set boundaries and
(01:23):
say no when necessary, but itcan be done in a way that is
respectful and kind.
Ultimately, politeness is aboutbalance.
It's about being kind andrespectful to others while also
being true to yourself.
Keep listening if you want tolearn practical tips that will
help you do just that.
(02:13):
Welcome to the Communication24-7 podcast, where we
communicate about how wecommunicate.
So today we're going to talk alittle bit about politeness and
etiquette and rudeness and kidstoday All of those things.
How have things changed in oursociety over time?
(02:34):
And I'm really excited about mynext guest because she is an
expert in this field.
But I'm doubly excited aboutthis guest because she had her
start her career started as ajournalist, and so we're going
to kind of meld all of thistogether.
Y'all know with me, having ajournalism background and being
a media analyst for the pastseveral years, I've been really
(02:56):
concerned about how thehyper-partisan nature of the
news has had a negative impacton us and how we communicate
with one another.
I mean, it's only natural,right, whatever we consume, it's
going to have an impact on howwe perceive the world around us
and how we interact with othersaround us based on those
perceptions.
(03:17):
So I asked Christy to be on theshow today because we're going
to have a fantastic conversationabout all of those things.
Now let me do a quickintroduction and then I'm going
to ask Christy to expand on that.
So y'all, you know, get outyour notebooks and take some
(03:38):
good notes, because I know we'regoing to learn a lot about some
of the things that we maybehave lost in our society and we
may not want to admit it.
But you know, some of us couldprobably do with some, I guess,
some practice in this area.
I know I can.
I'll deal with some practice,but first let me do the
introduction and then we'll getstarted with the conversation
(03:59):
with Christy.
If you're not familiar withChristy Spencer, she is founder
of the Polite Company and withthe Polite Company it's based on
the principles of consideration, respect and honesty.
That's going to be it.
Let's put a pin in that,because I want to talk about
honesty as well.
As you know, how can we be kindand honest at the same time?
She's a certified etiquettetrainer and graduate of the
(04:23):
Emily Post Institute.
She has 25 years of experienceas a journalist and
businesswoman, uniquelyqualifying her to deliver the
message that good manners leadto successful personal and
professional relationships.
I 1000% agree with that, buty'all know I do.
Christy, thank you so much forbeing on the show and welcome.
Speaker 2 (04:46):
Well, thank you so much.
I'm so excited to talk with youtoday.
Speaker 1 (04:49):
Yeah this is going to be a lot of fun.
So that was the really quickversion of your bio, not
anywhere near enough tounderstand where you began in
this business, your experienceas a journalist.
Do you mind just taking us backto?
How did you decide to get intojournalism first, and then how
(05:12):
did that actually transfer overto what you're doing today?
Speaker 2 (05:17):
So I grew up and my the person that I admired the
most was Connie Chung, and Idon't know why in the world.
I thought that I could beConnie Chung when I grew up, but
she was somebody that Iidolized, and so having that
role model, having a family thatsat down and watched TV every
evening and watched the newstogether, was something that was
(05:38):
just ingrained in me, and sowhen I was in high school, I
took a class on being a radio DJ, and it was the first time that
I had somebody say you know,you're pretty good at this, you
might want to look into it.
And that's all it took for meto decide that I wanted to go
ahead.
I majored in broadcastjournalism, graduated from the
University of Kansas, and thenstarted my career in a nearby
(06:03):
station in Topeka, kansas, andthen went from there to another
station, which is not uncommonfor people to do.
What isn't common for people todo is to then stay there for 20
some years.
Usually, especially intelevision journalism, we're
staying for two years in oneplace and moving on, and moving
on, and I was a news director,and so I was hiring people for
(06:27):
those positions and I thoughtwhy do I need to leave, because
everything is always changingaround me, and so I really did
have the heart of a teacher andreally enjoyed working in local
news specifically, and that wasreally something that I love to
do, mainly because it is lesspartisan and we can reflect our
(06:50):
community without necessarilyreally interjecting a whole lot
of our opinions.
Of course, we can't say we'renever going to interject, that
that's where we come from.
We all come from a differentplace in life, but there was
really not the pressure to havean agenda when we're talking
about local news and ourcommunities.
Speaker 1 (07:12):
That is such a huge piece right there with the local
news.
You're so right it does tend tobe, I know, with looking at
news and rating it forreliability and bias.
The local news does tend to bea little higher on the
reliability scale and definitelymore centered as far as the
bias is concerned.
Do you have a lot of friendswho are still in the journalism
(07:35):
field and have they moved outinto more of the national news
system?
Have you heard a lot from themabout the pressure that exists
in the media ecosystem now totry to get you know?
Yeah, let's get the clicks.
Speaker 2 (07:51):
Right, there is a huge amount of pressure, and
there always has been, andregardless of social media,
that's a whole new thing.
But we've always been deadlinedriven, and so it takes a
certain kind of person that canlive on a deadline like that,
and not only live on it butthrive on it, and so it really
does take a competitive person.
(08:12):
It does take somebody that can,you know, dissociate themselves
from the events a little bit,because you might, you know,
start out at an announcement ofa new business and then you end
up at a crash scene or a fire oryou know something horrific
like that.
So I don't know that people,you know, people kind of make
fun of local news and we kind ofit's the butt of some jokes,
(08:33):
but really there are someamazing people that these are
not people that get picked up bylimos and there is no hair and
makeup and somebody picking outtheir wardrobe.
It is not nearly as glamorousas it might seem to other people
.
It's really, really hard work.
Speaker 1 (08:51):
I think that's probably one of the main reasons
the integrity behind local newshas been able to be so steady
in that way, when you thinkabout it, you're not worried
about being the celebrity.
Think about it, you're notworried about being the
celebrity, you're not worryingabout winning over, you know, or
advocating for a certainposition.
(09:11):
I find that when I'm watchingthe news or I'm listening to the
news, whenever I get an inklingthat someone is beginning to
advocate for a particularposition, I find myself backing
away from it, because Iimmediately know there's got to
be some type of an agenda behindthis, because there's too much
(09:32):
opinion being shared with thisand not enough of.
Okay, just give me the factreport, you know.
Just let me know what happenedwith this and I think also with
local news, because there issuch a quick turnaround with the
different segments.
Right, you've got a couple ofminutes to cover what's going on
with this, and so we need tolet you know what's going on,
(09:53):
and there's not a whole lot oftime to begin expanding on what
you think may or may not behappening or why it's important
and what might come next.
Speaker 2 (10:03):
Yeah, and you have to be even more quick than you
used to be able to.
So now you know we're talking a15-second story.
How in-depth can you get in 15seconds?
But that is kind of theattention span that we're
working with.
Television has the advantage ofhaving the visual aspect as
well, so that certainly helps.
That can also be a barriersometimes, because sometimes we
(10:26):
don't hear from certain peoplebecause they weren't able to
appear on camera.
Covid really did change that formany stations, because it was
no longer so important to beright in front of somebody else
with a camera in their face tobe able to get that interview.
Being able to see peoplethrough computer screens became
so much more normal, and I thinkthat that is one of the great
(10:47):
things.
And COVID didn't bring manygreat things, but that's one
thing that it did bring is thatwe don't have to always go with
the most available person thatmakes themselves available to us
.
We can go with the person who'sbest for the story, as long as
they have some way to get theirpicture up on the Internet.
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (11:07):
Do you have an opportunity to talk to younger
people who are either thinkingabout going into journalism or
maybe they're in college rightnow and they've already declared
journalism major.
They know this is what theywant to do for their career path
.
They know this is what theywant to do for their career path
.
Do you have an opportunity totalk to younger people about the
(11:29):
field of journalism and theethics that are so important
within journalism?
Speaker 2 (11:32):
You know, that is one thing that I really prided our
station for having the ethics.
We had a manual where we kindof went through scenarios and
what we would do in differentcases.
I think that that is somethingthat journalism students
definitely do learn now.
Now, when I speak to collegestudents, which are my favorite
(11:53):
audience to speak to, I'mtalking about etiquette, whether
that's social media etiquetteor dining etiquette or trying to
kind of help them shine insocial situations.
So I'm not really concentratingon the journalism as much as I
used to, although just with youtoday, you know the opportunity
to speak about it.
I always take advantage of thatbecause it was my first love.
Speaker 1 (12:15):
Yeah, and it permeates so much and, like I
was saying earlier, we may noteven necessarily realize it, but
the information that we areconsuming and the channels
through which we consume thisinformation, the different
organizations that we payattention to it, can't help but
to have an impact on how we'reperceiving not only that topic
(12:37):
that we're reading about, butnow it's impacting how we
perceive other people, based onthe things that we think they're
reading.
Now.
Know, now it's not enough tookay, I'm going to disagree with
you on that, but oh, you payattention to that news station,
so I immediately know you don'tknow what you're talking about,
right?
Yes, it seems like it hasgotten way worse over time.
(13:00):
Have you integrated any of thatwithin your etiquette training?
Do you find that as you'rescrolling through the news or as
you're scrolling through socialmedia, you find, oh man, this
is an excellent example.
I need to use this next time Italk to somebody about etiquette
and politeness.
Speaker 2 (13:21):
Yes, I'm a fan of Google Alert alerts, so anything
that comes up etiquette orsomething like that that I'm
always sharing with people.
I just shared with clientstoday a new study that 60% of
companies are going to besending their employees to
etiquette training this year,which I'm like that's the best
news that I've heard all year,for sure, but I think that that
awareness is is important, butit's also important to think
(13:46):
that we're more fragmented thanwe have ever been.
Like you said, if you identifywith one news station, then that
is something that people make alot of assumptions about you
just for what you say.
Oh, I saw this on such and such.
Again, of course, people think,oh, you're watching this or
that, or you're listening tothis or that, and I think that
(14:07):
listening to anything orwatching anything or reading
anything too much, or makingthat the center of your
conversations is not a good lookfor your social skills or your
etiquette, either one.
Speaker 1 (14:22):
So take me through.
You had this amazing career injournalism.
You were happy with where youwere and you embedded in the
community, I'm sure, and just itseemed like it was a really
fantastic job that you were ableto have with that career path
that you had developed at thelocal news station that you had
(14:45):
developed at the local newsstation.
Are you tired of engaging indebates that quickly escalate
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Do you long for a world wherediverse thoughts are respected
and celebrated even in the faceof strong disagreements?
Have you ever wondered how tohave a respectful and productive
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(15:07):
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or damaging relationships withyour friends and family?
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(15:28):
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That's wwwcommunication247.comforward slash podcast.
Communication247.com forwardslash podcast.
(15:49):
How did you make the decision,or even why did you make the
decision, to transition out ofjournalism and then go after
this new career path in teachingothers about etiquette and all
of those things?
Speaker 2 (16:03):
You know, it's like so many stories.
We all evaluated our livesduring COVID and we had to make
a decision.
Is, you know, is this way thatI'm making my living the way
that I want to live my life?
And for me, 25 years was a longtime to live that life and to
really, regardless of thepositivity that you would try to
(16:26):
bring to it, it's verydifficult to do that in
journalism.
For decades it gets to youhonestly, burnout for journalism
is incredibly high, you know.
Maybe you know four to fiveyears is, you know, a typical
lifespan For a news director.
The position that I had, twoyears, was the norm.
(16:46):
For how long somebody wouldstay in that position?
Just because, again, we talkedabout the deadlines.
We're talking about, you know,we're going through tornadoes,
fires, you know really horriblethings that happen to children
and we're living that, and alongwith the deadlines there's the
long hours and so that kind ofall accumulated and what
(17:07):
journalism did for me and whatlocal news did for me in those
decades was amazing.
But I decided that I was goingto fulfill a dream and take an
etiquette class from the EmilyPost Institute, which really, I
mean you look at etiquette andyou look at a newsroom and these
are two different universes forsure and I decided I liked
(17:29):
universe B better and to be ableto spend the rest of my working
life and career helping people,and it really is similar to
what I did with reporters andanchors.
We would try to make themappear as professional as
possible, help them communicatea message, help them be
(17:52):
trustworthy and reliable, andthat translates really well to
everyone else in the universewho is trying to build a brand
for themselves and who want tolook at leadership through those
consideration, respect andhonesty values.
Speaker 1 (18:09):
Yeah, so you had mentioned it being like night
and day the etiquette in thenewsroom versus what you were
learning when you went to theEmily Post Institute.
What were some of those?
I don't know if you would callthem bad habits, but what were
some of those things that yourealized?
Maybe this okay, I'm going tohave to shift this now I've.
(18:31):
We don't want to have gulliblejournalists that'll fall for
anything, but it's alsoimportant to assume good
intentions of people as opposedto they're up to something.
Speaker 2 (18:53):
So that was a big switch for me.
I think there were.
There were so many things thatit was just really just being
able to kind of dig in andrelish that positivity.
When I was being my reporterself and I was investigating
different programs and what Iwanted to maybe invest in, and I
talked to people, my biggestrevelation was that everyone was
(19:17):
so nice that I talked to.
Now, as a journalist, you mightcall 100 people in a day and
you might find two nice ones whoare going to treat you nicely.
So that was definitely a switchfor me and I thought, oh my
gosh, they're so nice.
And then I thought, well,that's the deal, that's why
we're here, that's what this jobgets to do agree with people
(19:41):
and decline invitations andthose kinds of things.
Speaker 1 (19:45):
But really it is rooted in great positive just
all the good things Right andnot making that assumption that
there's some nefarious purposebehind whatever the decision is
that somebody's making.
I never thought about thatbefore.
That is so true.
I do tend to be more of acritical listener, critically
(20:09):
minded person.
It is hard, especially with thenews that you consume today.
It just seems like everythingis so negative and it's just
compounded and negativity and itcan be incredibly difficult to
to recognize what type of impactthat is having on your
(20:32):
perception of the world aroundyou.
I'm so glad you had mentionedthat, though that's one of the
revelations that you had aboutthe assumptions that we make
about others and theirintentions.
I think it's really easy for usto forget that.
I know it's easy for me toforget that, especially when you
get so embedded with everythingthat's going on.
(20:52):
You know, in the world todayit's so easy to assume negative
intentions.
Speaker 2 (20:58):
You know, on someone else's part, yeah, yeah, what's
interesting now is we used tohave a saying is that if your
mother tells you that she loves,you get a second source.
And now it's really nice thatwhen my mom tells me she loves
me, I just go ahead and believeher.
Speaker 1 (21:15):
Yeah, yeah.
So, yeah, I don't want to beatup on journalism so much.
It's not all negative and it'snot all doom and gloom, and I
know there are a lot of otherthings that are happening within
our society that is having sometype of impact on our ability
to communicate with one anothereffectively, and I know
(21:37):
etiquette, politeness, is a hugepiece of that.
What are some of the thingsthat you're recognizing?
What are some of the changesthat have occurred in our
society over the past maybe youknow couple of decades that you
have found these are some reallycritical issues that, while I'm
talking about etiquette, whileI'm talking about politeness,
(22:00):
this is getting at the core ofsome of the things that's going
on in our society.
Have you, have you run acrossanything that you've recognized
as, yeah, you know, not justjournalism, but these are some
other things that are happeningin our society that is creating
this division and this is makingit more challenging for us to
(22:20):
be polite with one another.
Speaker 2 (22:23):
Well, we, the reason that we are sometimes uncivil to
one another is always becauseof stress.
And in the past few years, youknow, has anybody had any stress
, you know?
I mean we were at home, we wereworking from home, we were
trying to manage that, and thensomebody tells us we have to
teach our own kids and you know,stress on steroids all that
(22:44):
stress really makes us focusinward, and when we're looking
inward, we're not seeing howwe're impacting those around us.
And when we're looking inward,we're not seeing how we're
impacting those around us.
And when we lose that awarenessand we become all about me,
then we're exhibiting rudebehavior, and that's where a lot
of that comes from.
And so I think it is helpful tothink of it as stress, because
(23:07):
I think of us as a society.
We recognize how dangerous andhow unhealthy stress can be, but
we just think of rudeness aspeople who don't know how to
behave properly.
So when you put it in thatframe of what's that person
going through, what's stressingthem in their life, how can I
make it better?
If you knew that somebody wasstressed because they had a
(23:30):
stress-o-eter on their shirt andyou could see what their stress
was, how would you treat them?
Speaker 1 (23:35):
Would you?
Speaker 2 (23:36):
treat them a little bit more kind.
Would you treat them with alittle more patience?
So, even when we encounter thatrudeness in other people, first
we need to look at ourselvesand make sure that we are not
the ones who are being rude inthat situation it's so much
easier to see it in other peoplethan it is to see in ourselves
(23:56):
but also is to recognize whatmight be prompting that person
to feel that way.
And sometimes that takes timeand we are a rush, rush, rush.
You know world.
And so taking that time andtreating people with that
respect, knowing that some ofthat incivility comes from
stressors, I think it's a goodplace to start.
Speaker 1 (24:18):
Okay, yeah, that's a good place to start.
It is incredibly difficultbecause, you know, we see
examples all the time on socialmedia, whenever we're watching
television, listening topodcasts.
There are no shortage ofexamples of people being rude
with one another, and some areextreme examples.
(24:38):
Some people, like you weresaying, we look at these as
people who are behaving badly,and that could be someone who is
destroying a work of art at aat a museum, or someone who
interrupts someone at dinner youknow they're a public person,
like a congressperson or someonelike that interrupting them at
dinner because they feel sostrongly about whatever the
(25:00):
topic is you know they'readvocating for.
Or if you're a public speaker,you're staying on stage and
you're trying to do apresentation and then there's
someone trying to shut you downwhile you're doing your
presentation.
Those are extreme examples, butit does seem like, at least,
that these examples are becomingmore and more common and it's
(25:24):
really concerning.
At least it feels like it'sheading in that direction.
When you're doing your trainingand you're having these
conversations, do you ever speakwith people who do
presentations?
They get on the stage?
Do you ever have conversationswith them about?
Yeah, if this were to happen toyou.
(25:45):
This could be a better way tohandle the heckler or someone
who's trying to shout you down.
How do you deal with that ifyou're on stage and that happens
to you?
Speaker 2 (25:56):
I think it really depends on your personality and
what you can pull off.
I mean, humor is a great one.
You know, we see that all thetime.
You know somebody's, you knowthe president speaking, and
somebody's heckling Okay, well,how do you handle that?
Now, what do we remember aboutthat interaction?
We don't remember, maybe, whatthe heckler said, or we don't
remember what the president wassaying, but what we do remember
(26:19):
is how they handled it.
Speaker 1 (26:20):
Okay.
Speaker 2 (26:21):
And so so much of that is not how you're going to
handle it, or it's not thatyou're going to handle it,
because you're going to havesome reaction, whether it's
humor or whether it's asking forthat person to be removed.
But the important thing is howyou do that, and what we need to
think of is, before you get onstage way before you get on
stage decide how you're going tohandle that and what you can
(26:44):
pull off and what seemsauthentic to you.
So that's my best advice topeople is when you're up there
and it happens is not the timeto start thinking about what
your reaction is going to be.
So that is as important as thecue cards that you're having or
the parts of the speech thatyou're using.
It is to think about how you'regoing to react and be able to
(27:07):
show some grace when thingsdon't go well, because that is
what reveals our true politenessand our sophistication and our
poise.
Speaker 1 (27:18):
Mentioning true politeness.
How do you arrive at that happymedium?
Because I know okay.
So an honest reaction.
I know my personality, like youjust said, it just depends on
your personality and how youmight go about handling that.
I can have a sense of humor,but I also know, depending on,
(27:41):
like you said, how stressed I amor how irritated I am, I could
very easily just have a verynegative response to that
situation and probably make it alittle worse.
If I'm going to be honest withyou, how do you develop that
ability to have that politenessin a way that it's not a fake
(28:05):
politeness?
Do you know what I'm saying?
Because we all learn about,okay, be polite.
How do you internalize that tothe point where it does become a
part of your personality, or isthat even possible?
Is that possible for somebodylike me to internalize?
Speaker 2 (28:23):
I absolutely think so .
I think so.
You know, we become what we'rearound and what we want to be
and what we concentrate on.
So if you're a person whoconcentrates on negative things
all the time, of course that'sgoing to come out in your
interactions, so it's reallywhat you decide to surround
yourself with.
I think being able to have agood comeback is great, but it's
(28:48):
again that sincerity and theway in which you say it that is
so important.
So we can all say, you know,thank you in a myriad of ways.
Where it can be sarcastic, itcan be, you know, not genuine
because we're not lookingsomebody in the eye, and that
that those phrases work foreverything.
So there's, there's a way thatyou can pull off that
(29:10):
interjection or that humor thatreally makes it authentic
towards you.
So I think that that's theimportant thing.
It's not that you're going toreclaim the stage.
Here's another television jargonis that you have the mic and
the heckler doesn't get the lastword.
The person with the microphonedoes.
So I think it's you know goodto recognize that you have that
(29:32):
power in that situation.
And you know and as in anyetiquette faux pas we talk about
, it's that you admit it youapologize and you move on.
Do not dwell on the droppedfork or the piece of spinach
that you had in your teeth.
It is just admitting,apologizing and moving on, and
that's good for so many thingsin life.
Speaker 1 (29:53):
Oh, that is so true.
I have said that exact samething.
I taught public speaking at thecollege level for many years.
We've had very similarconversations that look, you can
.
You can pretty much depend thatsomething wrong is going to
happen in your presentation.
It's just, that's life.
There is no such thing as aperfect presentation.
If you make a mistake, don'tdwell on it, don't call
(30:15):
attention to it.
Really Just you know.
They don't know what youpracticed.
As far as they're concerned,everything that you have done on
stage, that's all a part ofyour master plan, right?
So don't make a big deal out ofit, because when you make a big
deal out of it, then that'smost likely going to be what
they recall right Later on.
That's what they're going toremember later on With you had
(30:38):
mentioned COVID earlier and itmade me think of a question.
I want to.
I want to circle back around tothat.
We had so many things change inCOVID, including our ideas of
greetings, what is appropriateversus what is inappropriate.
It used to be the typicalwisdom of the day you meet
(31:00):
someone new, you shake theirhand, you look them in the eye,
you have a firm handshake, andthat was the rule of the day,
and then COVID happened, and nowit's all of a sudden.
Do we do fist bumps?
Can I shake hands?
Do we do the whole elbow thing?
What is everybody doingnowadays?
I mean, covid is I mean I thinkthere are still people you know
(31:23):
getting COVID now, but it'snowhere near as prevalent as it
was during the pandemic itself.
But it seems like we still havesome leftover confusion as to
how do you meet someone now, howdo you greet them?
What's the appropriate thing todo now?
Speaker 2 (31:43):
So this is.
You know, what I love aboutetiquette is there was never a
better time to jump intoetiquette than after COVID, for
sure, because so many things didchange.
It brought so many issues tolight.
The best thing to do is to beable to shake hands with
somebody.
I think that we're back at thatstage.
The other thing is is that youare not required to where it
(32:05):
used to be very, very impolite Imean deal breaker.
If you're somebody who doesn'tshake hands, I think now it's
okay not to shake hands, but youhave to be able to convey that
message before the other personsticks out their hand.
By the time somebody sticks outtheir hand, you really have to
shake it.
After that point, if you needto be discreet and run to the
(32:28):
bathroom, use some hand gel,wash your hands, whatever you
need to do to make yourself feelbetter about that, but then
know next time where you justsay I'm not a handshaker, kind
of like we used to say I'm not ahugger or I'm not back to
shaking hands, but it is sayingthat before the other person
approaches you.
That makes that work.
I don't think anyone's going toblame you for that.
We're hopefully all stillgiving each other some room to
(32:57):
have different opinions on that,but I think that it is
important that you say thatfirst before they stick their
hand out.
Speaker 1 (33:00):
Yeah, Is there a better way to say it than other
ways?
You know, I'm imagining myselfmeeting someone for the first
time, walking into the room andI do feel kind of funny going I
don't, I don't shake hands yet,or I'm not back to shaking hands
yet.
How, how do you suggest someonewho really is uncomfortable
(33:23):
with shaking hands still withothers, how do they do that in a
way that doesn't come off?
As you know, it's not sooff-putting.
Speaker 2 (33:32):
I think you can say something as easy, as I'm not up
to shaking hands yet.
Put it on yourself, of course.
Don't say you look like you'reJeremy.
Just say you know I'm not up toshaking hands yet.
Or if you can come up with alittle joke you know, it's like
I'm not shaking hands because ofCOVID, something like that that
you can come up with a littlejoke you know, it's like I'm not
shaking hands because of COVID,something like that that you
can come up and say to peopleand I think it again it's, it's
(34:01):
how you say that, how youpresent it that is the biggest
thing.
Speaker 1 (34:03):
Yeah, okay, I'm the weirdo I'm absolutely.
You know, right now I'm kind ofweird right now.
I'm just making eye contacttoday, that's right, I have not
gotten over the weirdness and Ido appreciate that you said be
discreet.
If you do end up in a positionwhere you do shake someone's
hands, I think the worst thingthat you could do is immediately
run over to your purse and grabyour huge bottle of hand
(34:23):
sanitizer and start bathing init.
That's probably not going tocome across as very nice, right.
Speaker 2 (34:31):
Yeah, people don't want to be reminded of how germy
that they are Right.
Speaker 1 (34:35):
That's generally not a good idea, especially when
you're first meeting someone.
So that's one of the thingsthat did seem to shift during
COVID.
Are there some other points ofetiquette that you saw shifted?
That's the most obvious one,you know, with the shaking hands
(34:55):
.
What are some other, I guessmajor etiquette finds, if you
will, that seem to have changedthrough the pandemic?
Speaker 2 (35:06):
I think another big one was virtual meetings.
We were not as adept at doingthat before COVID and now we are
used to doing that, and thatcomes with a myriad of issues,
whether it's cameras on how latedo you wait for somebody when
they're going to be entering aZoom meeting?
There's a whole list of thingsthat that brings up.
Issues of shared spaces at workand going back to work.
(35:31):
Those are all brand new things.
Dress codes relaxed so muchduring COVID that some people
are wanting to maybe notch thatback up in the workplace, and we
were used to only dressing, youknow, waist up for things, and
now it's important to wear thewhole outfit to work.
So it really did bring up somany things.
(35:53):
From how we interacted socially, you know we had fewer parties
how our children learned mannersthey weren't around as many
people at that time.
So it really, as etiquetteimpacts every point of our life,
so did COVID, and when thosetwo things get together, there's
a laundry list of things thatare different now than they were
(36:14):
then.
Speaker 1 (36:15):
Yeah, what are you recommending in the workplace?
I think one of the other shiftsalso is the idea of showing up
on time.
You know, like I view showingup on time as incredibly
important.
I think I view it as being rudeto everybody else if I'm going
to be late.
You know, I and I don't know,maybe that's because of my age,
(36:38):
I not quite sure, but it seemslike that's another aspect of I
don't know if it's COVID ormaybe kids today.
You know the whole thing.
What do you say toorganizations that are in the
midst of trying to get everybodyto come back into work and,
like you said, sometimes there'sgoing to be shared spaces.
(37:00):
There's the conversation aboutdress code, there's a
conversation about getting thereon time.
Is there like a maybe the topthree things that you have
immediately that you tellorganizations?
All right, these are going tobe some things that you need to
be prepared for and this is howto get through those challenges
(37:22):
effectively.
Speaker 2 (37:24):
Well, I can't think of any etiquette lesson that I
do give that doesn't start withbe on time, whether that is
wedding etiquette, diningetiquette, it is meeting
etiquette.
You know, whatever it is, tostart off late is a really bad
start, because then you'restarting with an apology or
you're starting with, you knowthat, that unknowing feeling
(37:45):
between you two.
So for me, lateness and ontimeness.
So for me, lateness and ontimeness, wasn't that impacted
by COVID?
I think it might be impactedjust by generations and you know
that kind of thing.
But really being on time meansbeing somewhere.
If that's a dining situation,you've got plus or minus five
(38:07):
minutes.
If it's a business situation,you best be in your chair five
minutes before whatever issupposed to begin begins.
If it's a wedding there, that'sa 30 minutes early before the
ceremony starts.
So so there's so many differentsituations that being on time
and being punctual meansdifferently just in our culture,
(38:27):
let alone when we go to othercultures, what that can be like.
But for me I think it's, youknow, just being aware that
rarely is on the dot at thestart time on time.
Speaker 1 (38:40):
Are you enjoying the Communication 24-7 podcast?
I certainly hope so.
I'd like to invite you tobecome a subscriber today.
Your support is trulyappreciated and as a subscriber,
you'll get a shout out in afuture episode.
Find the subscription link inthe show notes or on our website
.
Thank you for helping us keepthe conversation alive.
Right, yeah, yeah, that is socrucial.
(39:02):
I don't understand why that hasbeen something that seems to be
a point of contention in theworkforce today.
The entire argument of whyshould I have to be here at 8 am
.
What's the big deal?
How does a manager toeffectively communicate to their
(39:22):
employee why it's importantthat we all do this?
What advice would you give tothat manager who is struggling
with that employee who justdoesn't get it?
Speaker 2 (39:34):
Yeah, I would work on the self-awareness you know.
So what would it make you feellike if somebody arrived late
for your meeting or,consistently, was 20 minutes
late, for you know, a phone call, that's a long time, and the
way that you feel about that ishow the other person feels about
it.
And so I think sometimesself-awareness is that you know,
(39:56):
I tell people set alarms onyour phone.
We have this wonderfultechnology that don't think
about when you need to besomeplace.
We have this wonderfultechnology that don't think
about when you need to besomeplace.
Think about when you need toleave your house or when you
need to arrive at work.
Not just you know running in thedoor, you know getting the
tires and getting into your seaton time.
(40:21):
Think about the pluses and theadvantages that you have when
you go to a job interview andyou get to the parking lot 15
minutes ahead of the interviewand then you're able to collect
your thoughts, make sure thatyour tie is straight and you
don't have any lipstick on yourteeth and you walk in five
minutes early.
That's right.
That's a huge advantage thatyou're going to have over the
person who waited as long aspossible, got stuck in traffic,
had a flat tire, you know,subway didn't come on time, all
(40:44):
of those kinds of things.
And I tell people it's as easyto be the person who was always
late as it is to be the personwho was always on time.
It just takes that shift inyour mindset and maybe you know
a few of those helpful toolslike alarms and things like that
to help us out.
But there is something, thereis a wonderful thing that
(41:05):
happens to your reputation whenyou are the person who is on
time.
Speaker 1 (41:10):
Right and, like you said that, just that mental
preparedness, arriving early atthe interview, give yourself
some time to be able to just notbe so frazzled.
Do your power poses beforehandright so you feel all confident.
So etiquette is something thatit's one of those unspoken,
(41:32):
unwritten rule kind of thingthat we tend to learn through
experience.
You know, you learn reallyquickly when you do the wrong
thing, when you're you know whenyou're in mixed company.
So how early should parents atleast start focusing on helping
their kids learn properetiquette, so that maybe those
(41:55):
lessons aren't as brutal as theycould be if they're not
starting in the home?
Speaker 2 (42:01):
I think mealtimes are a great time to practice all
sorts of etiquette.
So I encourage families to haveas many meals.
That may not be dinner time foreveryone, everyone's schedules
are different but to have asmany meals together as a family
or one-on-one time that isdevice-free so that's no screens
(42:22):
, no TV, no tablets, no cellphones and be able to have those
conversations.
So what happens at the dinnertable is we're talking to one
another.
We're having conversationskills.
We are learning empathy whenwe're talking to one another and
telling them about our day.
We're learning to give otherpeople our attention, along with
(42:43):
learning how to hold a fork anddo all of those kinds of things
.
But I think having as manymoments like that that you can
with your children to talk abouthere's what we value.
Here's you know what'simportant about your day, what
was the worst thing about yourday?
You know we talk about some ofthose conversation topics that
are off limits when we aredining out or dining with others
(43:06):
.
We don't know very well.
But, those are exactly the kindsof things that parents and kids
should be talking about aroundthat dining table and we're
probably going to be eatinganyway and so I think that
that's an easy place to insertsome manners, and I don't think
it's ever too early.
You know, we teach our kidsearly on.
(43:26):
Some of those first words areplease and thank you, and it's
so important and we prompt thosekids over and over and over
again to say please and thankyou when they're little.
We need to remember that thatprompt needs to come more often
than that and when they're oldenough to understand using
please and thank you I'm sorry,excuse me.
(43:46):
Those words have power, and tobe able to use them properly is
really some a gift that we cangive our kids.
Yeah, Okay.
Speaker 1 (43:56):
So, parents who are listening, I'm challenging you
right now.
Pay attention.
Mealtime Is the iPad out, isthe phone out?
You are not doing your kids anyfavors, and this has been my
soapbox for so long.
I have an expert in the housethat is confirming what I've
(44:18):
been saying all along.
Look, christy Spencer said itMake sure, get rid of the
technology.
And that's how you encouragethe conversations and that's how
we teach our kids how to dothat, those manners that are so
important at the table.
And if you're the parent thatyou're immediately sitting your
(44:38):
kid down and you're plopping aniPad in front of them because
you just want peace and quiet,that's really not doing them any
favors.
If anything, it's really.
It's going to cause a challengedown the road for them.
It's really going to impedetheir ability to not only
(44:58):
communicate effectively but justto even understand those social
norms that we all need to beaware of, you know, in order to
function in society.
Are you like me that you go outto a restaurant and when you
see the iPad come out, you kindof get that little twitch go up
(45:19):
your spine.
Speaker 2 (45:21):
Well, and I understand why parents do it,
and they really do it with thebest intentions because they're
not wanting their child tobother anyone else.
But they're really making a hugetrade-off when they do that and
that is, you know, teachingyour child patience those
conversation skills that we weretalking about, having your
child know that what they say isimportant to you and that you
(45:44):
will listen and that all ofthose things you place above the
convenience of others.
And sometimes that can bereally hard, especially
depending on the sitting thatwe're in, but the trade-off is
that you don't have to give thatiPad to your child for years
and years to come.
They learn you know kind ofthose social norms and to fit in
(46:06):
.
And you know one thing we seewith teenagers especially, and
we're recognizing anxiety is sohigh among our young people and
a lot of that it comes fromeating in front of people too.
That causes a lot of anxietyfor people and so when we're not
sharing those skills and givingthem those little tips and
tricks so that they know how tomanage their food and those
(46:29):
kinds of things, we're doingthem a disservice by always
placating them with that phoneand trying to keep them quiet.
For other people, I justencourage people and especially
if you're a family who hasdinner at home twice a week make
one of those meals device-free.
If you can't cut the cordcompletely, do one more than
(46:52):
you're doing now and then see ifyou can increase it and I've
offered pledges on my websitewhere people can go and just
download it.
Put your names on it.
We pledge to have one moredevice-free dinner together a
week and put it on the fridge sothat you're all accountable and
I'll tell you.
You know, I have a teenage sonand if it's just him and I one
(47:12):
night having dinner, you knowI'll try to sneak my cell phone
to the table and, you know, do acouple emails thinking, oh,
he's 17.
He's not going to notice and hecalls me out.
Yeah you trained him and it'sbecause you know I've given him
(47:33):
that respect.
Yes, and he knows that you knowhe he's deserving of that
respect.
And and plus, it's fun to callmom the etiquette expert out on
something too.
But but what we, what we teachour kids, we're going to get
back from them and we're goingto want their attention someday.
And we're going to want theirattention someday and we're
going to want them to have goodtable manners someday.
And that's not going to happenin a vacuum.
Speaker 1 (47:49):
Yeah, yeah.
So I like your idea of, if youcan't cut the cord completely,
dedicate that one night a weekand then you can move it, you
know, expand off of that, geteverybody comfortable with the
device free Wednesday dinner andthen expand on that throughout
the week, Cause it really doesmake a huge difference.
(48:11):
I also that was a rule in myhouse.
My kids are in their twentiesnow, but that was a rule in my
house no devices at the table.
That drove me nuts and whenthey would have friends come
over they would warn them no, nodevices at the table.
My mom's going to take it and Iwould take their devices.
Talk to me, let's have aconversation.
Speaker 2 (48:34):
I don't think we're ever going to look back and say,
oh, I wish I would have had mychildren on social media or on
their phones more.
That's just not something thatwe're going to do.
We know that now.
We don't need hindsight to tellus that that's going to be how
we feel.
So I think that recognize thatand moving in a way that's
consistent with that isimportant.
Speaker 1 (48:55):
Yeah, and I am so appreciative that you mentioned
the anxiety piece with teenagerstoday Again, taking it back to
the dinner table in the home,just giving them that time to be
able to have that meal togetherand have the conversations, no
devices encouraging them to havethose conversations.
That's what's going to make theimpact when they are having
(49:19):
meals outside of the home lunch,dinner, whatever it is.
I'm so glad that you brought upthat aspect of it.
Another thing I did want totouch on and we're starting to
run short on time, but I wantedto make sure that I got this
question in because it'sincredibly important to a lot of
people.
We have an inability, or atleast we're uncomfortable with
(49:41):
saying no a lot of times.
I know that that has beensomething that I've struggled
with in the past.
I have so many friends whostruggle with that because we
feel like, in some way, if we'resaying no, am I being mean?
Am I disappointing them?
You know, is this, maybe thisis my responsibility?
I'm just not sure.
Can you take us through, sinceyou are the expert here, take us
(50:05):
through the art of saying noand why it is okay to say no, to
have those boundaries?
Speaker 2 (50:15):
Well, this is one of my favorite questions, jen, so
I'm really glad that we havetime to talk about it.
So when I talk about saying no,I like to help people remember
this process by using the wordcare.
So the C in care is whensomebody asks you for a favor or
to go somewhere, you firstconsider.
So that's the C in care.
(50:36):
Is you consider their request?
So really fast yes means youmight regret it will likely
regret saying yes.
And a really quick no meansthat you didn't even give it any
thought.
So the first thing to do isconsider.
The first thing you say to themwhen you are talking to them is
you appreciate the ask.
So I'm so glad that you askedme to do this.
(50:58):
I'm so glad that you love mycupcakes so much that you've
asked me to cook them for thebake sale again this year.
And then the R in care standsfor your response.
And that is when you would sayI'm not able to do it, I'm not
comfortable with doing it.
Whatever that response is,that's the R in care.
(51:18):
And then E stands for empathize.
So after you've given yourreason.
And then E stands for empathize.
So after you've given yourreason.
Sit back and listen to what thatperson says to you and
understand that they're in abind, that they'd really like
you to do something.
Don't change your answer, butjust listen to them.
And when you use that careapproach and you end with
(51:39):
listening to them, they will notremember that you said no,
which is absolutely within yourright to do if it's not your
responsibility or you don't havetime to do it, but they will
remember how you treated themand that you listened, and that
will be more valuable to themthan probably whatever they were
asking you to do.
Speaker 1 (52:01):
Yeah.
I really like that.
I just had this conversationtoday.
I had lunch with some friendsearlier and we were talking
about when people ask you to dosomething and that's why I love
this question right now and howdo you say no politely?
You know, at work one of myfriends had been asked by
another nurse you know, sheworks at the hospital if she
(52:23):
could work the following day andshe had taken the day off.
And she said no, because I havea doctor's appointment.
And then the other nursefollowed up with oh well, what
time is your appointment, youknow?
And so it opened that door forthe other nurse to kind of
wiggle their way in to try toforce, you know, a yes out of
(52:45):
her.
My way of dealing with that is,I feel like you don't owe
anybody an explanation.
I mean, you can politely say no, I'm not able to do that, and
then let that be it.
What's your advice insituations like that?
I know that we are so temptedto provide reasons as to say no.
I know that we are so temptedto provide reasons as to say no
because I think we feel guiltyin some way or we feel like we
(53:06):
don't want to be mean in someway to that person.
So what do you say to thereasons?
No but or no because just don'toffer it, or do you think it's
a good idea?
Speaker 2 (53:19):
It really is situational no-transcript to get
(53:44):
ourselves backed into a cornerby kind of giving a fib to
somebody or giving them too muchinformation, where again they
have the wiggle room to try tochange our opinion.
But we can always just say thisis really important to me, or
I'm not comfortable doing thator I'm not able to help.
And I think that those, thoseare all true and you can deliver
that with that honesty andsincerity and not give that
(54:08):
person the idea that maybe thereis a little bit of wiggle room,
because when we are sayingsomething that it may not be
100% the truth, people can tellthat in our voice.
And so it's important just toyou know, be comfortable saying
no.
Just because people ask aquestion.
They are not expecting you tosay yes.
And if they're a person who'sexpecting you to say yes, you
(54:31):
know I guess it's your, it'syour time to give them a lesson
on, you know, realisticexpectations from people.
But people are going to say noand as long as you do it in a
polite, honest and considerateway, I again I think you can
actually build that relationshipas opposed to hurt it.
Speaker 1 (54:47):
Yeah, that is wonderful.
I know a lot of people rightnow are going.
Okay, not only can I say no,but now I know how to say no and
start with some really lowstakes things.
Speaker 2 (55:00):
You know, don't.
Don don't start saying no thefirst time your boss asks you to
stay late.
That is not the time topractice this.
You know care method.
Use it for lower stakes, use itwith your kids, talk to your
dog.
You know whatever you have todo to get comfortable with that
conversation and if you knowthat that is coming again, when
you take that moment to pauseand consider the request, that
(55:22):
gives you the time to put therest of things in place before
you give your answer.
Speaker 1 (55:28):
Okay that is wonderful.
So if there's someone out therewho is for the first time
hearing all about this stuff,they're like wow, there's a
whole world of information thatI'm not familiar with and it
sounds like I probably shouldget familiar with this, whether
they're an adult, a teenager, ormaybe they're a parent who
(55:48):
they're interested in trying tofigure out how to integrate
etiquette lessons, you know, atthe dinner table or just
throughout the home.
What advice do you have?
Give us your website, and arethere any reading materials or
things that they can download orwhat can they grab to kind of
help them as they begin thisjourney?
Speaker 2 (56:09):
So what we were just talking about the care approach
and I also give 10 ways to sayno politely is a download on my
website and you can find that atthepolitecompanycom Company is
spelled out.
So it's the polite companycom.
I think that other resources,of course.
I'm a graduate of the EmilyPost Institute.
They just came out with a booklast year that updated a hundred
(56:32):
years worth of etiquette, whichis fantastic for people to have
as a resource.
There's all sorts of othernewspaper columns and when you
it's funny when you startlooking for the word etiquette
and manners and politeness, howoften you will hear it in a day.
So just by having thatawareness and kind of checking
those kinds of things out, Ithink that we'll we'll
(56:53):
understand that etiquette issomething that's evolved and
it's modern.
It's not something that'santiquated.
That our grandmas did and we'reno longer doing that.
We are still 100% doingetiquette.
So I just want people to beaware of it and know that there
is a way that you can make apositive impact on people's
lives without putting yourfeelings, your time or anything
(57:17):
else in jeopardy.
Speaker 1 (57:18):
That is wonderful, because I know that that usually
is a concern.
Okay, I know I need to bepolite and all that, but I also
don't want to be a doormat, andthat's not what we're talking
about here at all.
Speaker 2 (57:29):
Yes, being polite does not equal being a pushover.
Speaker 1 (57:32):
No, not at all Any parting, words of wisdom or
anything that we had not had achance to talk about before we
wrap up today.
Speaker 2 (57:42):
I'm just so appreciative to talk to you.
I mean, it's not often I get towrap you know two of my
favorite things into one podcastinterview.
So this has been an absolutetreat and I appreciate your time
so much and I appreciate theaudience's time as well.
So thank you so much Of course,christy.
Speaker 1 (58:00):
It has been so great having you on the show.
This is going to be a reallypopular episode.
I think we answered a lot ofquestions that talk about
anxiety.
People get anxiety over thisstuff, so, those of you who are
listening, I hope that you dotake a moment, go over to
Christy's website, check it out,download all of those things
(58:21):
that she had just mentioned, andshe gave some fantastic advice
on things that you can look uponline.
I hope you take advantage ofthat.
I definitely will make sure tohave a link to her website in
the show notes, as well as hercontact information.
If you want to get in touchwith her directly, I'm sure she
won't mind, absolutely not.
Yeah, go ahead and reach out toher with any questions that you
(58:43):
might have.
So once again, christy, thankyou so much for taking time out
of your day to record thisepisode with me, and, just like
you, I was really excited to beable to talk about journalism
and etiquette at the same time.
Okay, politeness, this isawesome.
This all kind of wraps up intoa nice, neat little package for
me, the best of both worlds asfar as I'm concerned.
(59:04):
Listeners.
I hope you enjoyed this andgive it some food for thought.
Okay, give it.
Give it some time, mull thingsover and start practicing it.
And it's a skill just like anyother skill.
We got to practice at it to getgood at it.
So don't get frustrated ifyou're not knocking it out of
the park.
You know first thing whenyou're trying this stuff,
because that's not how it works.
(59:25):
It's a little bit at a day and,just like Christy said, a lot
of it is situational, so itdepends.
So, be kind to yourself and bekind to others.
Extend grace all around,because I think we all could use
a little more grace.
All right, so I'm getting offof my soapbox now.
All right, everybody, have awonderful rest of your day and
(59:50):
we will see you next time.
Bye, thanks for listening.
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