July 22, 2024 • 24 mins
Meet Ramin, he's originally from Iran, but now resides in Melbourne. His creative outlets are painting and drawing, but don't let that fool you he has a BIG brain, and is a natural problem solver.
But, he's concealing his profession, which he has been doing for two decades now. Can Art carve out the truth?
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Instagram: instagram.com/concealedwithartsimone/
Tik Tok: tiktok.com/@concealedwithartsimone
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:08):
Hello, it's the gorgeous artsimone here.
Speaker 2 (00:10):
You may know me for my gorgeous face that's been
sculpted by the gods, or a very good makeup rush.
But sadly not everyone is as gorgeous as I am.
But I am selflessly giving regular people a platform. It's
not entirely true, though, because although they may look painfully regular,
they're concealing something about themselves which makes them worthy of
(00:33):
my time and yours. I don't know what it is,
and neither do you, but we'll do some hard work
to carve out the truth.
Speaker 1 (00:41):
Bring me my guess.
Speaker 3 (00:45):
My name's Ramin. I live in Melbourne. I was born
in Sydney and lived in Iran from nineteen seventy eight
to nineteen eighty one. I spend most of my time
trying to solve problems and outside of my work, you're
drawing and painting. But I'm concealing something about my profession,
which I've done now for the best part of about
(01:07):
two decades.
Speaker 1 (01:12):
Well, hello, how are you very well?
Speaker 2 (01:14):
How? I'm mysterious. So you're sitting in front of me.
You're very smartly dressed. You nice pair of spectacles. I
ask everyone, are they prescription or are they for fashion purposes?
Speaker 3 (01:27):
Definitely prescription, okay, And I took way too long getting them,
realizing when I ran out of room with my iPhone
my arm couldn't stretch any longer to read it.
Speaker 1 (01:35):
You could just increase the font starze.
Speaker 3 (01:37):
I didn't know that. Then, you're right.
Speaker 1 (01:40):
I haven't taught my mum that trick.
Speaker 2 (01:41):
I'm very excited to let her know one day she's
going to have one word per page and just take
her a long time.
Speaker 3 (01:47):
But I was almost there.
Speaker 2 (01:48):
Well, you've got the glasses now, see you're fine. Yeah, okay,
So you're like drawing, like painting you what did you say?
You're twenty two decades nearly two decads, two decades your profession,
and that's what you're concealing from me today, your profession.
Speaker 1 (02:04):
That's what makes that's the interesting thing about you.
Speaker 3 (02:06):
Well, so I'm talking one of them.
Speaker 2 (02:07):
So I'm told, okay, what I'm going to do today
is ask you three questions, and from the answers to
those three questions, I have to work out what it
is you're concealing from me here.
Speaker 1 (02:19):
Okay, are you ready?
Speaker 3 (02:21):
I'm very ready?
Speaker 2 (02:22):
Question number one, fifty years in the future. What do
you think would be a new norm.
Speaker 3 (02:28):
I think that people will be looking at tailored engineering
body solutions to disease.
Speaker 2 (02:36):
Tailored engineer body solutions to disease. Correct, that's a lot
of words. Now I have to decode those words. Yes
to disease, all right, tailored fashion nozas not in a fashion? Okay, disease.
Question number two. If you were to pick one ninja turtle,
(02:57):
which one would it be?
Speaker 3 (02:59):
I would so Leonardo Leonardo?
Speaker 1 (03:02):
What do you like about Leonardo?
Speaker 3 (03:05):
Leonardo is an artist, a sculptor, a scientist. Okay, engineer,
big problem solver.
Speaker 1 (03:12):
Okay.
Speaker 3 (03:13):
I like the fact that he did so many different things,
so many varied and interesting things, all of them requiring
great deal of ingenuity and curiosity.
Speaker 2 (03:23):
Okay, big brain. Okay, damn big brain. Disease twenty years
leo artist, big brain. Coming back to that one.
Speaker 1 (03:35):
Okay. The final question I have for you is what's
the motto you live by?
Speaker 3 (03:42):
One motto? I really one saying I realized it's not
My saying is but off more than you can chew,
and chew like hell, more.
Speaker 2 (03:50):
Than you can chew and okay, teeth, big brain with
teeth disease twenty years art turtles Okay, turtles.
Speaker 3 (04:07):
Could command with anything.
Speaker 1 (04:09):
Now, I think it's clear as day, clear as day.
Speaker 2 (04:13):
I don't know much trying to think about this, because
you really painted it beautifully for me.
Speaker 1 (04:17):
Yep, are you?
Speaker 2 (04:18):
I think you are a mad scientist who has engineered
turtles with big brains and teeth to battle disease.
Speaker 1 (04:27):
Is that correct?
Speaker 3 (04:28):
It's not too far.
Speaker 1 (04:29):
Off the mark.
Speaker 3 (04:36):
I'm a plastic, reconstructive and cosmetic surgeon with a PhD
in molecular biology of lymphatic vessels. I work with people
who require reconstructive surgery for trauma or cancer, but also
those who suffer the after effects of cancer. I often
operate on those who've been looking for ascetic reasons for
different types of surgery or cosmetic surgery that may not
have gone as planned.
Speaker 1 (04:57):
That's a big brain's.
Speaker 2 (05:05):
So Ramon isn't creating an army of turtles with big
teeth fighting disease? No? No, no, he is a plastic surgeon.
I'm so glad I could have a free consultation here today.
You don't mind listening, do you?
Speaker 1 (05:18):
Thanks?
Speaker 2 (05:33):
Okay, so we're here with women and you are a
lot of things a big brain holder. But one of
those things you do is cosmetic surgery. Plastic surgery. Can
you actually, let's at the top line, plastic surgery and
that can be cosmetic or it can be reconstructive.
Speaker 1 (05:53):
Has that divvy up.
Speaker 3 (05:55):
Plastic surgery is a really broad specialty. Essentially, the focus
is on what we say is form and function, So
the form of a body part and the function of
a body part. So if you want to walk down
the street and you have a part of your limb
missing or facial injury or something like that, and people
are interacting with it, it inhibits your ability to communicate, you
(06:17):
feel self conscious. So the two actually blend into one another.
For example, in pediatric plastic surgery, when we're helping with
patients who are born with a congenital difference, a lot
of it is about them being able to get into
school and to start their journey socializing and learning without
being teased or bullied or whatever. So it might be,
(06:37):
for example, the pinning back of the ears that's not functional,
it doesn't help the hearing, but it does help the
asthetic appearance. In turn, that helps them to integrate into
their classroom and society, so that they're not constantly starting
behind the ape ball.
Speaker 2 (06:54):
So if you're going in for an operation, for example,
and you need something fixed, yes, is it true that
like plastic surgery itself.
Speaker 1 (07:01):
Is like an optional extra?
Speaker 3 (07:04):
Like? Is that how it shouldn't be? But there was
a time when one of the health funds they said
we're just funding the cancer cutout and the reconstruction's cosmetic,
and that was a pretty dark time for patients. The
Australian Society Plastic Surgeon was extremely angry about that, and
we did have a lot of representation to Healthiness is
(07:25):
saying that's unethical to say that we'll cut out the cancer,
but we won't reconstruct it. And in the end people
saw the light.
Speaker 2 (07:32):
My mum, for example, has had lots of skin catcers
in her life. She had it on her lip and
they had to cut a whole trunk out of her lip,
and they could a plastic surgeon wasn't She couldn't afford
for plastic surgeon to fix it, and ever since then
she wrote me in photos she doesn't like people for
people to see her because she's got this big scar
in the middle of her face.
Speaker 3 (07:50):
Really, in this day and age in Australia, you shouldn't
be not able to access a plastic surgeon through the
public hospital system. The good news is, I guess she
could definitely see someone and look at getting that restored
or improved.
Speaker 2 (08:05):
She calls herself the bride of Chucky, the poor doll.
So do you do elective surgery like an electric cosmetics surgery?
Has there any ever been a circumstance where someone comes
to you and you go, I'm not doing that. I
can't do that, Like, is there anything? Is that a common?
Speaker 3 (08:21):
They're very, very common to have patients who come in
with a preconception and it's become a lot worse in
the age of social media, it must be said, and
reality TV and these things. People often come with an
expectation that may not be relevant to them. They'll come
in with some form of surgery that they desire was
(08:43):
just simply is impossible. They'll come with a photograph of
a celebrity which has a completely different bone structure, age,
health status, and then want something done that's actually not
A probably isn't achievable, but B is risky, and C
has a very high risk of them being completely dissatisfied,
because what does happen. This condition, called body dysmorphic disorder,
(09:03):
is that patients often can't see themselves as you and
I might see them walking along the street. There's a
there's a distortion, and that's a very complex there's a
there's an overlay of lots of social and developmental issues
where they teased and I would suggest that if the
outside observer came along and met her, they probably wouldn't
(09:25):
notice it, but to her, she's fixated on it. Yes,
and that's that's something where we have to as plastic surgeons,
be very careful.
Speaker 2 (09:31):
Well, I was going to say, how do you then
choose what is valid and what isn't?
Speaker 1 (09:35):
How does your scale go all?
Speaker 3 (09:37):
Right?
Speaker 2 (09:38):
Now, I understand essentially people pleading their case to you,
being like, this is what it's doing for me, this
is why it would be great.
Speaker 3 (09:45):
Yeah, Yeah, I think it's a mixture. There's certainly there's
screening tools. Sometimes you when you talk to patients, you
can't actually tell what they're seeing from inside their heads.
So there are screening tools to understand if they are
suffering from this condition or have it a touch of
this condition called body dysmorphia, But often it's a matter
of just spending that time getting to know patients and
(10:06):
discussing with them. And if you actually sit down with people,
sometimes what they thought was the main problem isn't actually
the main problem. So an example that I could give
you is that patients will come along and they have,
because of breastfeeding as a mother, or age or weight alteration,
they have breasts that they feel hang down too low,
(10:26):
and they come in for that being corrected. And the
lazy thing to do is just stick a breasting plant
into it. Doesn't actually address the problem. What they might
need is a breastlift or a breast reduction or something
slightly more nuanced. But you know, if I see a
patient and they want something done tomorrow, it's almost like
there's a pressure to do it or I'll go elsewhere.
Speaker 2 (10:46):
I think I can relate to you on a very
minor level in terms of I for years was a
makeup artist, and I did a lot of drag makeup
for people, and I would get shown pictures of like
an eighteen year old glamorized face tuned drag queen by
like a fifty year old man and be like, your
face doesn't look like that. If I put that makeup
(11:06):
on you, you wouldn't look like that. I can do that
makeup on you, but you're going to be very upset
when you look in the mirror. And it's really interesting
that you have to kind of let people down from
these expectations without seeming like the bad guy. I really
want to help you. We can get somewhere, but you're
never going to get to that. And that's okay because
we can make you beautiful in your own right, but
to get the person over that side, it's always a
(11:27):
little bit difficult.
Speaker 3 (11:29):
Well, that's very perceptive because I think that's exactly what
it is. I think it's almost identical, except that instead
of using a bit more permanent rushes, well, no, it's
instead of using brushes and makeup, it's just using a
scalpel blade. And so some people call plastic surgery psychology
with a knife. Yeah, but really that's a little bit
(11:49):
glib as a statement, because it's more like trying to
negotiate and navigate each person's individual psychology. And sometimes it's
reassuring people to say, look your arms, your breasts, your eyes,
your nostrils, your legs. There is a variation between what
is normal between two sides of anything.
Speaker 1 (12:08):
Well, it's the same thing.
Speaker 2 (12:09):
I'm legally blind in one eye, so like, I struggle
with one side of my face and I constantly have
to take photos of my face and flip it so
I can see the other side properly, and every time
it's like, oh my God, is that what I look like?
Speaker 1 (12:20):
Bloody hell.
Speaker 3 (12:21):
But I think that's really important for people to understand
that it's okay to vary from the normal quote unquote,
because the normal is set by people who are actually
chasing the symmetry and things, which actually, if you look
at nature, nature itself doesn't do symmetry.
Speaker 2 (12:39):
And it is funny because if you do make someone
look exactly symmetrical, they look weird, they look done.
Speaker 1 (12:45):
Yeah right, and some people like that.
Speaker 3 (12:48):
So I mentioned that I lived in Iran as a child,
and in Iran there's a huge rhinoplasty industry. Okay, so
there's a lot of rhinoplastis done and there's a status
symbol around the run plasty. So people whereas a lot
of patients here will hide away for the postop recovery
because it's a sign that I've got money to afford
a rhinoplasty. People walk around with the bandages on their nose,
(13:09):
even if they haven't had a rhinoplasty.
Speaker 1 (13:11):
Ah.
Speaker 3 (13:12):
So I noticed that when I travel there. But there
are places in each capital city here, Melbourne and Sydney
where people definitely want to look done. Yes, parts of
the West Coast of the United States as well, in
different different jurisdictions, and people want to look done. So
I say to them, that's fine, but I'm not your guy, yes,
because I want to be doing a surgery that the
(13:34):
person who meets you for the first time doesn't say
what's wrong with your eyes? They just think, or even
people to know you, they say, oh, you look refreshed. Yes.
Speaker 2 (13:41):
So I'm deep in the queer community. I'm surrounded by
a lot of trans friends, and one thing they need
in their gender affirmation is not need, but a lot
of them require is surgery to make them feel more
comfortable in their skin. But a big trend that's been
happening is they're all flying either to Bang Kong or
to Turkey or to hear or there. I believe it's
(14:03):
just a budget thing because it's so expensive and I
can not even imagine. But have you had to deal
with many cases because one of my friends. For example,
she went over to Bangkok. She was getting excess skin
removed because she'd lost a lot of weight and she'd
been saving up. I was so excited and she got
severely infected. She was stuck over there for months and
then had to come home. She couldn't work and work
(14:25):
for so long. Have you had to deal with many
cases from what's happened overseas? And what are your thoughts
on the glamorization of we'll just go on a holiday.
Speaker 1 (14:33):
It's a package.
Speaker 2 (14:34):
You know, everyone's going to get their hair transplant done.
This that like, Oh I just book a one stop trip.
They pick up from the airport. It's lovely, but is
it well, Look.
Speaker 3 (14:44):
It's a massive industry and if complications occurre and a
small percentage of people, how do you manage them. That's
the most important thing about surgery. When you're choosing your surgeon,
you need to feel comfortable that if there's something that
goes wrong, they will be there to guide you through.
They won't abandon you push you off to someone else.
They shouldn't charge, it shouldn't cost anything if that happens,
(15:05):
and so it's about being there to look after the issues.
The trouble with medical tourism is once you have literally
walked out that door, you're not their problem anymore. Patients
I talk to can't get in touch again, they can't
get someone to look at them, and they're on their
own in a foreign country.
Speaker 2 (15:23):
And sometimes it seems like they even just chuck you
straight like almost straight back on the plane. One more consultation,
which is really dangerous, Yeah, because of the risk of
DVTs bleeding and fluid leakage.
Speaker 3 (15:34):
Being at altitude. Because the pressure blood pressure stays the same,
the cabin pressure goes down, so your blood pressure relatively
is higher, So if you're going to bleed, that's the
time you're going to bleed, and they put you on
the plane and an off your shoot. Now, maybe just
say ninety percent of people have no problems, that's great,
But if you're one of the ten percent, it doesn't
matter what the success rate is elsewhere. You're on your own,
(15:55):
and as your friend would, I suspect a test. It's
a pretty lonely, harrowing place when there's nowhere to turn.
If you're in a foreign country where you don't have
an insurance system or reciprocation of rights, which a lot
of those places you mentioned do not suddenly if you're
having a big problem, it's on your travel insurance. Now
do they even cover that stuff. A lot of them
have exclusions for medical tourism. When you come back, you
(16:17):
then either are in the public system some health if
you have private insurance, they will exclude those sort of things.
So it really it's a false economy. By the time
you add in a trip, accommodation, medications, transport to and
from the airport, and then all those risks on top,
it's actually not cheaper to go to those destinations which
(16:39):
ostensibly you're right, they packed them, so this is what
you can do. The other thing they're doing is they're
doing what we shouldn't be doing. One of the adages
of plastic surgery is you should stage every operation, never
do today what could be honorably left to do tomorrow.
If you're doing say a whole body post weight loss,
there might be arms, breastlift.
Speaker 1 (16:59):
Tummy tucket, fire, bang, bang, bang bang.
Speaker 3 (17:01):
They'll do sixteen seventeen hour operations, which are really dangerous.
Speaker 2 (17:04):
And the thing that scared me too is some of
these people don't know I've gone. They have their consultation,
like the same day they arrive, you have their consultation
and then get cut open instantly.
Speaker 3 (17:15):
Horrific.
Speaker 2 (17:16):
I can understand the mentality to imagine if you were
there and you're like, actually, I'm not sure about this,
but I'm in a different country. I've already spent this money.
I've told everyone I'm coming here to do this, so
you just go ahead with it, which is.
Speaker 3 (17:26):
Well, you feel forced into us. Yeah, and if you talk.
Speaker 2 (17:28):
To especially when there's a language barrier on top of
that as well.
Speaker 3 (17:31):
One hundred percent they're like, well, I've spent the money,
now I'm sort of obliged to do it. But I
think the big thing is that if you look at
someone who's trained for ten or eighteen or twenty years
to do something, and then you've had someone who's trained
for six months or a year to do the same thing,
you might be fine, right, if you're lucky, you might
be fine. But what if you're one of that percentage
(17:51):
of people who isn't fine? What happens? Then that's a
question each person should be asking. I mean, the very
simple thing is people should be asking, what are your qualifications?
Are you actually a surgeon? You'd be surprised that some
people in Australia who are allowed to trade as surgeons
are not actually trained through the College of Surgeons. Really, yeah,
(18:12):
a lot of people are surprised by that. Yeah, there's
a lot of times I see people who say, well,
I just assumed if they called themselves a surgeon, they
were a plastic surgeon completely.
Speaker 2 (18:20):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (18:20):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (18:21):
So in your career, have you had to try and
rectifie some hack jobs from overseas or local or is
it happening everywhere?
Speaker 1 (18:32):
The hacked aratraumatic of me.
Speaker 3 (18:33):
But yeah, I mean it may be something where there's
been a mishap that's inverted an unavoidable or there's something
that is due to not being familiar and not being trained.
About thirty percent of the work I do is where
someone's had an operation before that you're not happy with. Now, look,
patients might not be happy with my operation and they
might go elsewhere. I wouldn't know about it. But the
thing is the doors always open. I've had a few
(18:56):
patients who had rhyino plasts in Turkey. Yes, I had
unfortunate lady who I just said to look, I can't
fix that. And the sad thing is she shows the
before picture and she said, I just want this little
hump gone.
Speaker 1 (19:07):
And she looked.
Speaker 3 (19:08):
It was a pretty nose, and now it looks like
someone who's had a severe accident or something's happened. It's
entirely collapsed. She can't breathe through it, and she hates
it to the point that she still goes around wearing
a COVID mask. Now she can't show herself in her eyes,
she can't show herself in public. And she's gone back
for two or three operations and now she comes in.
The trouble is that the structure of the nose, the cartilage,
(19:30):
is all collapsed in so the skin shrinks. So it's
not just a matter of if you put the cart ledge back.
You can take rib graphs sometimes, but the skin, once
it's shrunk down, the pocket's shrunk, you can't put those
in anymore unless you do something like import skin using
microsurgery from the hand or from the forehead to replace
that skin and start again. But the trouble is that's
(19:50):
a huge operation. There's scars, and a lot of the
things that have done overseas aren't what we would see
is very regulated in terms of the standards know that.
In some countries they call it the dolls nose, which
is like that, yeah, now you definitely get sued in
Australia if you did that. It's it's completely wrong to
do that. But they come back with this because that's
(20:11):
the local perception of what's attracted.
Speaker 1 (20:13):
Well, that's what it's going to say.
Speaker 2 (20:14):
It's like, is there some surgeons where you go in
for something they're like, well no, they take the term
artists a bit too far and they go, well, this
is what I do and this is what this is
what's best for you.
Speaker 1 (20:27):
That is that what happens. Look it shouldn't because it's like,
do they.
Speaker 2 (20:32):
When you're a surgeon, do you essentially have a cv
of surgeries you've done, like I did this and did this.
Speaker 1 (20:38):
Especially I guess now.
Speaker 2 (20:39):
In this social media world where surgeons are doing live
surgeries on TikTok and they're putting their Instagram accounts and
they want to show their work, is there more are
they more pushed to be like all right, well I'm
going to do this because this is what I.
Speaker 1 (20:50):
Want to show off. You know.
Speaker 3 (20:52):
I think it's what people sometimes, you know, the old
saying if all you have is a hammer the whole
world looks like a nail. Yes, sometimes people are rather
than what I mentioned, tailoring the solutions to what the
patients need. Yes, it's tailoring what they give the patient
to what they can do.
Speaker 1 (21:09):
Get true.
Speaker 2 (21:11):
I want to talk about for a second for trends
in cosmetic surgery. So I feel like for a long
time was all the ladies want of their boobs done?
And then I feel like the Kardashians happened and everyone
wanted hips and bum and all of that. What have
you seen over the years in terms of the trends
of what's in and what's out.
Speaker 3 (21:29):
I think probably two things I've seen that have really changed.
One is that look of being natural versus looking done,
and that varies but goes in fits and starts, depending
on things like the Kardashians. Now, one thing I've noticed
in the last probably five years is breasts have changed
in what people believe. There was a time when you know,
if you look back in the sort of images of
(21:50):
the nineteen eighties and things huge breasts, I mean enormous
implants that were clearly too big for that patient were trendy. Yes,
and more and more now I'm noticing that people are
coming in and they're saying, I want those implants out
and I don't want anything back in What can you
do for me?
Speaker 1 (22:06):
And that was that'd be full reconstructive as well.
Speaker 3 (22:09):
Well, that's it's a problem because what happens is you
take out the implants and then they sag. Yeah, but
the trouble is that the patients asleep, so they never
see how much sag has been generated by taking out
the implant, and they just see what you end up with,
which is never as good as if they'd had nothing done.
Speaker 2 (22:26):
Yes, I want to get creative. Yep, okay, because you
know it was it was boobs, it was butts.
Speaker 1 (22:35):
What do you think is going to.
Speaker 2 (22:37):
Be the next hot ticket surgery that everyone's going to
be knocking on your door or going, can I please
have this? I'd say, what I reckon? I'm going to
put my money on toe removal. I don't need to
be balanced, but I could fit into a lot more
shoes if I have these pes guitars.
Speaker 3 (22:52):
That's very interesting that you say that, because.
Speaker 1 (22:53):
No one's asked you to remove their toes before.
Speaker 2 (22:55):
Have they My.
Speaker 3 (22:56):
Favorite operation, just a secret, the favorite one to do.
If I were doing a technical operation is what we
call a tota hand transfer, and so is that what
it's so someone if someone yeah, exactly what sounds like?
You take the second toe and it surprisingly makes a
really good digit on the hand. So the toe to
hand transfer.
Speaker 1 (23:14):
What about an extra digit on the hand?
Speaker 3 (23:17):
I was up in Queensland with my family and the
colas have two thumbs. Well, I was thinking how useful
that onto something that useless? Second toe and give another thumb.
Imagine the stuff you could do texting? How fast could
your text?
Speaker 2 (23:29):
The game as the game as we love on either
hand we've called it here first to hand, I call
it the tinger. So that was remand the plastic surgeon.
Speaker 1 (23:49):
Ah, I tell you what.
Speaker 2 (23:50):
He may have a big brain, but I'm all about
having an extra digit if you know what I mean.
You've been listening to an iHeart Australia production Concealed with
art simone.
Speaker 1 (24:00):
Listen to more of what you
Speaker 2 (24:01):
Love on iHeart and to check out a sculpted work
of plastic art, check me out on the socials
Hello, it's the gorgeous artsimone here.
Speaker 2 (00:10):
You may know me for my gorgeous face that's been
sculpted by the gods, or a very good makeup rush.
But sadly not everyone is as gorgeous as I am.
But I am selflessly giving regular people a platform. It's
not entirely true, though, because although they may look painfully regular,
they're concealing something about themselves which makes them worthy of
(00:33):
my time and yours. I don't know what it is,
and neither do you, but we'll do some hard work
to carve out the truth.
Speaker 1 (00:41):
Bring me my guess.
Speaker 3 (00:45):
My name's Ramin. I live in Melbourne. I was born
in Sydney and lived in Iran from nineteen seventy eight
to nineteen eighty one. I spend most of my time
trying to solve problems and outside of my work, you're
drawing and painting. But I'm concealing something about my profession,
which I've done now for the best part of about
(01:07):
two decades.
Speaker 1 (01:12):
Well, hello, how are you very well?
Speaker 2 (01:14):
How? I'm mysterious. So you're sitting in front of me.
You're very smartly dressed. You nice pair of spectacles. I
ask everyone, are they prescription or are they for fashion purposes?
Speaker 3 (01:27):
Definitely prescription, okay, And I took way too long getting them,
realizing when I ran out of room with my iPhone
my arm couldn't stretch any longer to read it.
Speaker 1 (01:35):
You could just increase the font starze.
Speaker 3 (01:37):
I didn't know that. Then, you're right.
Speaker 1 (01:40):
I haven't taught my mum that trick.
Speaker 2 (01:41):
I'm very excited to let her know one day she's
going to have one word per page and just take
her a long time.
Speaker 3 (01:47):
But I was almost there.
Speaker 2 (01:48):
Well, you've got the glasses now, see you're fine. Yeah, okay,
So you're like drawing, like painting you what did you say?
You're twenty two decades nearly two decads, two decades your profession,
and that's what you're concealing from me today, your profession.
Speaker 1 (02:04):
That's what makes that's the interesting thing about you.
Speaker 3 (02:06):
Well, so I'm talking one of them.
Speaker 2 (02:07):
So I'm told, okay, what I'm going to do today
is ask you three questions, and from the answers to
those three questions, I have to work out what it
is you're concealing from me here.
Speaker 1 (02:19):
Okay, are you ready?
Speaker 3 (02:21):
I'm very ready?
Speaker 2 (02:22):
Question number one, fifty years in the future. What do
you think would be a new norm.
Speaker 3 (02:28):
I think that people will be looking at tailored engineering
body solutions to disease.
Speaker 2 (02:36):
Tailored engineer body solutions to disease. Correct, that's a lot
of words. Now I have to decode those words. Yes
to disease, all right, tailored fashion nozas not in a fashion? Okay, disease.
Question number two. If you were to pick one ninja turtle,
(02:57):
which one would it be?
Speaker 3 (02:59):
I would so Leonardo Leonardo?
Speaker 1 (03:02):
What do you like about Leonardo?
Speaker 3 (03:05):
Leonardo is an artist, a sculptor, a scientist. Okay, engineer,
big problem solver.
Speaker 1 (03:12):
Okay.
Speaker 3 (03:13):
I like the fact that he did so many different things,
so many varied and interesting things, all of them requiring
great deal of ingenuity and curiosity.
Speaker 2 (03:23):
Okay, big brain. Okay, damn big brain. Disease twenty years
leo artist, big brain. Coming back to that one.
Speaker 1 (03:35):
Okay. The final question I have for you is what's
the motto you live by?
Speaker 3 (03:42):
One motto? I really one saying I realized it's not
My saying is but off more than you can chew,
and chew like hell, more.
Speaker 2 (03:50):
Than you can chew and okay, teeth, big brain with
teeth disease twenty years art turtles Okay, turtles.
Speaker 3 (04:07):
Could command with anything.
Speaker 1 (04:09):
Now, I think it's clear as day, clear as day.
Speaker 2 (04:13):
I don't know much trying to think about this, because
you really painted it beautifully for me.
Speaker 1 (04:17):
Yep, are you?
Speaker 2 (04:18):
I think you are a mad scientist who has engineered
turtles with big brains and teeth to battle disease.
Speaker 1 (04:27):
Is that correct?
Speaker 3 (04:28):
It's not too far.
Speaker 1 (04:29):
Off the mark.
Speaker 3 (04:36):
I'm a plastic, reconstructive and cosmetic surgeon with a PhD
in molecular biology of lymphatic vessels. I work with people
who require reconstructive surgery for trauma or cancer, but also
those who suffer the after effects of cancer. I often
operate on those who've been looking for ascetic reasons for
different types of surgery or cosmetic surgery that may not
have gone as planned.
Speaker 1 (04:57):
That's a big brain's.
Speaker 2 (05:05):
So Ramon isn't creating an army of turtles with big
teeth fighting disease? No? No, no, he is a plastic surgeon.
I'm so glad I could have a free consultation here today.
You don't mind listening, do you?
Speaker 1 (05:18):
Thanks?
Speaker 2 (05:33):
Okay, so we're here with women and you are a
lot of things a big brain holder. But one of
those things you do is cosmetic surgery. Plastic surgery. Can
you actually, let's at the top line, plastic surgery and
that can be cosmetic or it can be reconstructive.
Speaker 1 (05:53):
Has that divvy up.
Speaker 3 (05:55):
Plastic surgery is a really broad specialty. Essentially, the focus
is on what we say is form and function, So
the form of a body part and the function of
a body part. So if you want to walk down
the street and you have a part of your limb
missing or facial injury or something like that, and people
are interacting with it, it inhibits your ability to communicate, you
(06:17):
feel self conscious. So the two actually blend into one another.
For example, in pediatric plastic surgery, when we're helping with
patients who are born with a congenital difference, a lot
of it is about them being able to get into
school and to start their journey socializing and learning without
being teased or bullied or whatever. So it might be,
(06:37):
for example, the pinning back of the ears that's not functional,
it doesn't help the hearing, but it does help the
asthetic appearance. In turn, that helps them to integrate into
their classroom and society, so that they're not constantly starting
behind the ape ball.
Speaker 2 (06:54):
So if you're going in for an operation, for example,
and you need something fixed, yes, is it true that
like plastic surgery itself.
Speaker 1 (07:01):
Is like an optional extra?
Speaker 3 (07:04):
Like? Is that how it shouldn't be? But there was
a time when one of the health funds they said
we're just funding the cancer cutout and the reconstruction's cosmetic,
and that was a pretty dark time for patients. The
Australian Society Plastic Surgeon was extremely angry about that, and
we did have a lot of representation to Healthiness is
(07:25):
saying that's unethical to say that we'll cut out the cancer,
but we won't reconstruct it. And in the end people
saw the light.
Speaker 2 (07:32):
My mum, for example, has had lots of skin catcers
in her life. She had it on her lip and
they had to cut a whole trunk out of her lip,
and they could a plastic surgeon wasn't She couldn't afford
for plastic surgeon to fix it, and ever since then
she wrote me in photos she doesn't like people for
people to see her because she's got this big scar
in the middle of her face.
Speaker 3 (07:50):
Really, in this day and age in Australia, you shouldn't
be not able to access a plastic surgeon through the
public hospital system. The good news is, I guess she
could definitely see someone and look at getting that restored
or improved.
Speaker 2 (08:05):
She calls herself the bride of Chucky, the poor doll.
So do you do elective surgery like an electric cosmetics surgery?
Has there any ever been a circumstance where someone comes
to you and you go, I'm not doing that. I
can't do that, Like, is there anything? Is that a common?
Speaker 3 (08:21):
They're very, very common to have patients who come in
with a preconception and it's become a lot worse in
the age of social media, it must be said, and
reality TV and these things. People often come with an
expectation that may not be relevant to them. They'll come
in with some form of surgery that they desire was
(08:43):
just simply is impossible. They'll come with a photograph of
a celebrity which has a completely different bone structure, age,
health status, and then want something done that's actually not
A probably isn't achievable, but B is risky, and C
has a very high risk of them being completely dissatisfied,
because what does happen. This condition, called body dysmorphic disorder,
(09:03):
is that patients often can't see themselves as you and
I might see them walking along the street. There's a
there's a distortion, and that's a very complex there's a
there's an overlay of lots of social and developmental issues
where they teased and I would suggest that if the
outside observer came along and met her, they probably wouldn't
(09:25):
notice it, but to her, she's fixated on it. Yes,
and that's that's something where we have to as plastic surgeons,
be very careful.
Speaker 2 (09:31):
Well, I was going to say, how do you then
choose what is valid and what isn't?
Speaker 1 (09:35):
How does your scale go all?
Speaker 3 (09:37):
Right?
Speaker 2 (09:38):
Now, I understand essentially people pleading their case to you,
being like, this is what it's doing for me, this
is why it would be great.
Speaker 3 (09:45):
Yeah, Yeah, I think it's a mixture. There's certainly there's
screening tools. Sometimes you when you talk to patients, you
can't actually tell what they're seeing from inside their heads.
So there are screening tools to understand if they are
suffering from this condition or have it a touch of
this condition called body dysmorphia, But often it's a matter
of just spending that time getting to know patients and
(10:06):
discussing with them. And if you actually sit down with people,
sometimes what they thought was the main problem isn't actually
the main problem. So an example that I could give
you is that patients will come along and they have,
because of breastfeeding as a mother, or age or weight alteration,
they have breasts that they feel hang down too low,
(10:26):
and they come in for that being corrected. And the
lazy thing to do is just stick a breasting plant
into it. Doesn't actually address the problem. What they might
need is a breastlift or a breast reduction or something
slightly more nuanced. But you know, if I see a
patient and they want something done tomorrow, it's almost like
there's a pressure to do it or I'll go elsewhere.
Speaker 2 (10:46):
I think I can relate to you on a very
minor level in terms of I for years was a
makeup artist, and I did a lot of drag makeup
for people, and I would get shown pictures of like
an eighteen year old glamorized face tuned drag queen by
like a fifty year old man and be like, your
face doesn't look like that. If I put that makeup
(11:06):
on you, you wouldn't look like that. I can do that
makeup on you, but you're going to be very upset
when you look in the mirror. And it's really interesting
that you have to kind of let people down from
these expectations without seeming like the bad guy. I really
want to help you. We can get somewhere, but you're
never going to get to that. And that's okay because
we can make you beautiful in your own right, but
to get the person over that side, it's always a
(11:27):
little bit difficult.
Speaker 3 (11:29):
Well, that's very perceptive because I think that's exactly what
it is. I think it's almost identical, except that instead
of using a bit more permanent rushes, well, no, it's
instead of using brushes and makeup, it's just using a
scalpel blade. And so some people call plastic surgery psychology
with a knife. Yeah, but really that's a little bit
(11:49):
glib as a statement, because it's more like trying to
negotiate and navigate each person's individual psychology. And sometimes it's
reassuring people to say, look your arms, your breasts, your eyes,
your nostrils, your legs. There is a variation between what
is normal between two sides of anything.
Speaker 1 (12:08):
Well, it's the same thing.
Speaker 2 (12:09):
I'm legally blind in one eye, so like, I struggle
with one side of my face and I constantly have
to take photos of my face and flip it so
I can see the other side properly, and every time
it's like, oh my God, is that what I look like?
Speaker 1 (12:20):
Bloody hell.
Speaker 3 (12:21):
But I think that's really important for people to understand
that it's okay to vary from the normal quote unquote,
because the normal is set by people who are actually
chasing the symmetry and things, which actually, if you look
at nature, nature itself doesn't do symmetry.
Speaker 2 (12:39):
And it is funny because if you do make someone
look exactly symmetrical, they look weird, they look done.
Speaker 1 (12:45):
Yeah right, and some people like that.
Speaker 3 (12:48):
So I mentioned that I lived in Iran as a child,
and in Iran there's a huge rhinoplasty industry. Okay, so
there's a lot of rhinoplastis done and there's a status
symbol around the run plasty. So people whereas a lot
of patients here will hide away for the postop recovery
because it's a sign that I've got money to afford
a rhinoplasty. People walk around with the bandages on their nose,
(13:09):
even if they haven't had a rhinoplasty.
Speaker 1 (13:11):
Ah.
Speaker 3 (13:12):
So I noticed that when I travel there. But there
are places in each capital city here, Melbourne and Sydney
where people definitely want to look done. Yes, parts of
the West Coast of the United States as well, in
different different jurisdictions, and people want to look done. So
I say to them, that's fine, but I'm not your guy, yes,
because I want to be doing a surgery that the
(13:34):
person who meets you for the first time doesn't say
what's wrong with your eyes? They just think, or even
people to know you, they say, oh, you look refreshed. Yes.
Speaker 2 (13:41):
So I'm deep in the queer community. I'm surrounded by
a lot of trans friends, and one thing they need
in their gender affirmation is not need, but a lot
of them require is surgery to make them feel more
comfortable in their skin. But a big trend that's been
happening is they're all flying either to Bang Kong or
to Turkey or to hear or there. I believe it's
(14:03):
just a budget thing because it's so expensive and I
can not even imagine. But have you had to deal
with many cases because one of my friends. For example,
she went over to Bangkok. She was getting excess skin
removed because she'd lost a lot of weight and she'd
been saving up. I was so excited and she got
severely infected. She was stuck over there for months and
then had to come home. She couldn't work and work
(14:25):
for so long. Have you had to deal with many
cases from what's happened overseas? And what are your thoughts
on the glamorization of we'll just go on a holiday.
Speaker 1 (14:33):
It's a package.
Speaker 2 (14:34):
You know, everyone's going to get their hair transplant done.
This that like, Oh I just book a one stop trip.
They pick up from the airport. It's lovely, but is
it well, Look.
Speaker 3 (14:44):
It's a massive industry and if complications occurre and a
small percentage of people, how do you manage them. That's
the most important thing about surgery. When you're choosing your surgeon,
you need to feel comfortable that if there's something that
goes wrong, they will be there to guide you through.
They won't abandon you push you off to someone else.
They shouldn't charge, it shouldn't cost anything if that happens,
(15:05):
and so it's about being there to look after the issues.
The trouble with medical tourism is once you have literally
walked out that door, you're not their problem anymore. Patients
I talk to can't get in touch again, they can't
get someone to look at them, and they're on their
own in a foreign country.
Speaker 2 (15:23):
And sometimes it seems like they even just chuck you
straight like almost straight back on the plane. One more consultation,
which is really dangerous, Yeah, because of the risk of
DVTs bleeding and fluid leakage.
Speaker 3 (15:34):
Being at altitude. Because the pressure blood pressure stays the same,
the cabin pressure goes down, so your blood pressure relatively
is higher, So if you're going to bleed, that's the
time you're going to bleed, and they put you on
the plane and an off your shoot. Now, maybe just
say ninety percent of people have no problems, that's great,
But if you're one of the ten percent, it doesn't
matter what the success rate is elsewhere. You're on your own,
(15:55):
and as your friend would, I suspect a test. It's
a pretty lonely, harrowing place when there's nowhere to turn.
If you're in a foreign country where you don't have
an insurance system or reciprocation of rights, which a lot
of those places you mentioned do not suddenly if you're
having a big problem, it's on your travel insurance. Now
do they even cover that stuff. A lot of them
have exclusions for medical tourism. When you come back, you
(16:17):
then either are in the public system some health if
you have private insurance, they will exclude those sort of things.
So it really it's a false economy. By the time
you add in a trip, accommodation, medications, transport to and
from the airport, and then all those risks on top,
it's actually not cheaper to go to those destinations which
(16:39):
ostensibly you're right, they packed them, so this is what
you can do. The other thing they're doing is they're
doing what we shouldn't be doing. One of the adages
of plastic surgery is you should stage every operation, never
do today what could be honorably left to do tomorrow.
If you're doing say a whole body post weight loss,
there might be arms, breastlift.
Speaker 1 (16:59):
Tummy tucket, fire, bang, bang, bang bang.
Speaker 3 (17:01):
They'll do sixteen seventeen hour operations, which are really dangerous.
Speaker 2 (17:04):
And the thing that scared me too is some of
these people don't know I've gone. They have their consultation,
like the same day they arrive, you have their consultation
and then get cut open instantly.
Speaker 3 (17:15):
Horrific.
Speaker 2 (17:16):
I can understand the mentality to imagine if you were
there and you're like, actually, I'm not sure about this,
but I'm in a different country. I've already spent this money.
I've told everyone I'm coming here to do this, so
you just go ahead with it, which is.
Speaker 3 (17:26):
Well, you feel forced into us. Yeah, and if you talk.
Speaker 2 (17:28):
To especially when there's a language barrier on top of
that as well.
Speaker 3 (17:31):
One hundred percent they're like, well, I've spent the money,
now I'm sort of obliged to do it. But I
think the big thing is that if you look at
someone who's trained for ten or eighteen or twenty years
to do something, and then you've had someone who's trained
for six months or a year to do the same thing,
you might be fine, right, if you're lucky, you might
be fine. But what if you're one of that percentage
(17:51):
of people who isn't fine? What happens? Then that's a
question each person should be asking. I mean, the very
simple thing is people should be asking, what are your qualifications?
Are you actually a surgeon? You'd be surprised that some
people in Australia who are allowed to trade as surgeons
are not actually trained through the College of Surgeons. Really, yeah,
(18:12):
a lot of people are surprised by that. Yeah, there's
a lot of times I see people who say, well,
I just assumed if they called themselves a surgeon, they
were a plastic surgeon completely.
Speaker 2 (18:20):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (18:20):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (18:21):
So in your career, have you had to try and
rectifie some hack jobs from overseas or local or is
it happening everywhere?
Speaker 1 (18:32):
The hacked aratraumatic of me.
Speaker 3 (18:33):
But yeah, I mean it may be something where there's
been a mishap that's inverted an unavoidable or there's something
that is due to not being familiar and not being trained.
About thirty percent of the work I do is where
someone's had an operation before that you're not happy with. Now, look,
patients might not be happy with my operation and they
might go elsewhere. I wouldn't know about it. But the
thing is the doors always open. I've had a few
(18:56):
patients who had rhyino plasts in Turkey. Yes, I had
unfortunate lady who I just said to look, I can't
fix that. And the sad thing is she shows the
before picture and she said, I just want this little
hump gone.
Speaker 1 (19:07):
And she looked.
Speaker 3 (19:08):
It was a pretty nose, and now it looks like
someone who's had a severe accident or something's happened. It's
entirely collapsed. She can't breathe through it, and she hates
it to the point that she still goes around wearing
a COVID mask. Now she can't show herself in her eyes,
she can't show herself in public. And she's gone back
for two or three operations and now she comes in.
The trouble is that the structure of the nose, the cartilage,
(19:30):
is all collapsed in so the skin shrinks. So it's
not just a matter of if you put the cart ledge back.
You can take rib graphs sometimes, but the skin, once
it's shrunk down, the pocket's shrunk, you can't put those
in anymore unless you do something like import skin using
microsurgery from the hand or from the forehead to replace
that skin and start again. But the trouble is that's
(19:50):
a huge operation. There's scars, and a lot of the
things that have done overseas aren't what we would see
is very regulated in terms of the standards know that.
In some countries they call it the dolls nose, which
is like that, yeah, now you definitely get sued in
Australia if you did that. It's it's completely wrong to
do that. But they come back with this because that's
(20:11):
the local perception of what's attracted.
Speaker 1 (20:13):
Well, that's what it's going to say.
Speaker 2 (20:14):
It's like, is there some surgeons where you go in
for something they're like, well no, they take the term
artists a bit too far and they go, well, this
is what I do and this is what this is
what's best for you.
Speaker 1 (20:27):
That is that what happens. Look it shouldn't because it's like,
do they.
Speaker 2 (20:32):
When you're a surgeon, do you essentially have a cv
of surgeries you've done, like I did this and did this.
Speaker 1 (20:38):
Especially I guess now.
Speaker 2 (20:39):
In this social media world where surgeons are doing live
surgeries on TikTok and they're putting their Instagram accounts and
they want to show their work, is there more are
they more pushed to be like all right, well I'm
going to do this because this is what I.
Speaker 1 (20:50):
Want to show off. You know.
Speaker 3 (20:52):
I think it's what people sometimes, you know, the old
saying if all you have is a hammer the whole
world looks like a nail. Yes, sometimes people are rather
than what I mentioned, tailoring the solutions to what the
patients need. Yes, it's tailoring what they give the patient
to what they can do.
Speaker 1 (21:09):
Get true.
Speaker 2 (21:11):
I want to talk about for a second for trends
in cosmetic surgery. So I feel like for a long
time was all the ladies want of their boobs done?
And then I feel like the Kardashians happened and everyone
wanted hips and bum and all of that. What have
you seen over the years in terms of the trends
of what's in and what's out.
Speaker 3 (21:29):
I think probably two things I've seen that have really changed.
One is that look of being natural versus looking done,
and that varies but goes in fits and starts, depending
on things like the Kardashians. Now, one thing I've noticed
in the last probably five years is breasts have changed
in what people believe. There was a time when you know,
if you look back in the sort of images of
(21:50):
the nineteen eighties and things huge breasts, I mean enormous
implants that were clearly too big for that patient were trendy. Yes,
and more and more now I'm noticing that people are
coming in and they're saying, I want those implants out
and I don't want anything back in What can you
do for me?
Speaker 1 (22:06):
And that was that'd be full reconstructive as well.
Speaker 3 (22:09):
Well, that's it's a problem because what happens is you
take out the implants and then they sag. Yeah, but
the trouble is that the patients asleep, so they never
see how much sag has been generated by taking out
the implant, and they just see what you end up with,
which is never as good as if they'd had nothing done.
Speaker 2 (22:26):
Yes, I want to get creative. Yep, okay, because you
know it was it was boobs, it was butts.
Speaker 1 (22:35):
What do you think is going to.
Speaker 2 (22:37):
Be the next hot ticket surgery that everyone's going to
be knocking on your door or going, can I please
have this? I'd say, what I reckon? I'm going to
put my money on toe removal. I don't need to
be balanced, but I could fit into a lot more
shoes if I have these pes guitars.
Speaker 3 (22:52):
That's very interesting that you say that, because.
Speaker 1 (22:53):
No one's asked you to remove their toes before.
Speaker 2 (22:55):
Have they My.
Speaker 3 (22:56):
Favorite operation, just a secret, the favorite one to do.
If I were doing a technical operation is what we
call a tota hand transfer, and so is that what
it's so someone if someone yeah, exactly what sounds like?
You take the second toe and it surprisingly makes a
really good digit on the hand. So the toe to
hand transfer.
Speaker 1 (23:14):
What about an extra digit on the hand?
Speaker 3 (23:17):
I was up in Queensland with my family and the
colas have two thumbs. Well, I was thinking how useful
that onto something that useless? Second toe and give another thumb.
Imagine the stuff you could do texting? How fast could
your text?
Speaker 2 (23:29):
The game as the game as we love on either
hand we've called it here first to hand, I call
it the tinger. So that was remand the plastic surgeon.
Speaker 1 (23:49):
Ah, I tell you what.
Speaker 2 (23:50):
He may have a big brain, but I'm all about
having an extra digit if you know what I mean.
You've been listening to an iHeart Australia production Concealed with
art simone.
Speaker 1 (24:00):
Listen to more of what you
Speaker 2 (24:01):
Love on iHeart and to check out a sculpted work
of plastic art, check me out on the socials
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