September 1, 2025 • 25 mins
It's a pleasure to introduce you to Tim!
Tim isn't a stranger to Art Simone, she recognised him instantly, even though it's not exactly his face that he's well known for...
Tim grew up as an army brat, loved drawing, and was once an earring. But Tim has etched himself into Australia's history books.
Can you figure out who Tim is?
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:07):
Hold on to your lashes. The queen has arrived me
Art Simone and.
Speaker 2 (00:13):
I have a premonition.
Speaker 1 (00:15):
I can see it clearly, someone wrapped in a tragic
beige outfit, a riddle and some hidden sparkle. But you've
really got a squint. Oh that's I guess. Ready to
meet them me too. This is concealed with Art Simone.
Speaker 3 (00:33):
Hit it. My name is Tim and I'm currently in Sydney.
Speaker 4 (00:43):
My dad lives in the Army, so we moved around
al I went to seven different schools. I have to
say drawing has been my lightsaber growing up because it
was a way of expressing and creating and joining myself
to the world around me.
Speaker 3 (01:00):
And I was once an earring.
Speaker 4 (01:04):
I'm concealing something about myself that has catched me engine
Australian culture forever.
Speaker 1 (01:15):
Oh well, hello Tim, how are you going in beautiful
sunny Sydney today?
Speaker 4 (01:21):
It is actually a gorgeous winter's sunny day.
Speaker 1 (01:25):
I am very jealous, but look, you've popped onto my
screen and I have to admit I know exactly who
you are, but our audience doesn't just yet, So I
still want to play our regular game that we do
here at concealed and ask you three questions, and from
the answers to those three questions, the audience can try
and work out what it is you are concealing from
(01:48):
us here today.
Speaker 2 (01:49):
Does that sound all right?
Speaker 3 (01:50):
It sounds like a lot of fun, all right.
Speaker 1 (01:53):
So, Tim, the first question I have for you is,
if you were to be an adamant object, what would
you be?
Speaker 2 (02:01):
Would it be an earring?
Speaker 3 (02:02):
Yeah, let's go back to the earring. They're inanimate.
Speaker 4 (02:05):
It depends on how fast you're wiggling, whether the very
inanimate or not the old full definition of earring. I mean,
I know for a fact that you are very good
at accessorizing your beautiful face. But back in the day,
a pair of male dancers either side of a drag
(02:26):
queen were called ear rings.
Speaker 1 (02:28):
Oh no, that is news to me. Boys don't get
up and dance with drag queens anymore.
Speaker 2 (02:33):
I tell you what.
Speaker 1 (02:33):
There's not enough for him on our tiny stages. But
I do like that term. So you used to be
a dancer, Okay, all right? Do you still like to
wiggle it?
Speaker 3 (02:42):
Well? Yeah I do.
Speaker 4 (02:44):
I have to get my zimmer frame out these days,
but yeah, sure, I haven't been an ewring for a
long time.
Speaker 3 (02:51):
I'm more of a necklace, a pearl necklace.
Speaker 2 (02:55):
All right, all right, right?
Speaker 1 (02:56):
Question number two, If you were to name a cockt
what would it be?
Speaker 4 (03:02):
It would be such a giveaway though. It would be
a cock on a rock in a frock.
Speaker 1 (03:10):
Oh okay, Oh, I wonder what that could allude to.
Speaker 2 (03:15):
It's a mystery.
Speaker 1 (03:17):
Maybe you're really into bouldering, who knows, or maybe into fowl.
Speaker 2 (03:21):
You could be really into chickens, who knows? Okay.
Speaker 1 (03:24):
And the third question I have for you is how
would you want to leave this earth?
Speaker 2 (03:30):
We get a bit metaphorical, a little bit deep.
Speaker 4 (03:35):
Let's just say that when that moment comes, whether I'm
being crushed, a tire is going over my head, a
bus tire, I will leave this earth happy knowing that
I've contributed something to Australia's identity.
Speaker 1 (03:51):
Okay, so let's recap Tim. What clues have you given
the audience here today? Used to be an ear ring akay,
a dancer with the drag queens. And if you were
to be run over by a bus, I would die happy.
Oh I'll tell you what. It's really difficult to piece
(04:12):
these things together. A bus, a cock, and a frock
and a rock you know, a drag queen's drag bags.
Speaker 2 (04:19):
So hard I wonder what it could be.
Speaker 1 (04:22):
Well, I think I know, but I think we're gonna
throw it back to you to announce your official title
of what you're concealing from us here today.
Speaker 4 (04:34):
My name is Tim Chapel, and I'm the costume designer
from the Adventures of Priscilla, Queen of the Desert, made
in nineteen ninety four.
Speaker 1 (04:47):
Yeah, it's mister Tim Chapel, icon lension superstar costumey a designer.
Speaker 2 (04:57):
Ah you, I'm so excited to speak to you.
Speaker 1 (04:59):
This has been the best surprise I've had in a
very long time because your work has impacted so many lives, careers,
artists across the world for the last three decades. And ah,
I want to pick your little brain, mister Tim Chapple.
Speaker 3 (05:15):
Ooh, pick away, pick away. My brain is open, ready
and waiting for picking.
Speaker 1 (05:20):
Oh good, because I do have my best nails on,
so I will be digging deep. Let's start with what
you led with, which is Priscilla, Queen of the Desert,
an iconic Australian film. The I would say, in my eyes,
the pinnacle of drag representation in the mainstream, especially for
our beautiful drag community here.
Speaker 2 (05:41):
How did you get started on it? Where did it happen?
Speaker 4 (05:43):
Well, look, I just I want to just correct a
little bit of what you just said. I didn't invent
the look. I just channeled it. That look already existed
in Sydney in the early nineties because back then there
wasn't internet, there weren't cell phones, and Sydney was this
gorgeous melting part of the most incredible, incredible creativity fashion,
(06:08):
music and the drag scene was phenomenal. And I just
was in the drag scene making stuff for people like
Greedy and Cyndy Pastel and Banina Bards, and I just
channeled that look into the film and it made me.
(06:31):
It did very well for me, And yes I did.
I did influence a lot, because I'm a genius.
Speaker 3 (06:37):
There's no denying that part.
Speaker 4 (06:39):
But going totally off track, what I find really fascinating
now is how RuPaul's Drag Race has done this big
that taken a very very big circle around and now
the people who do well on RuPaul's Drag Race embody
that that, you know what I mean, they do drag.
(07:02):
That's interesting that's got character, that's telling stories.
Speaker 3 (07:07):
It's not just about being pretty.
Speaker 4 (07:09):
There's nothing wrong with being pretty, but pretty and interesting
it's going to get you way further.
Speaker 1 (07:13):
Going back to Priscilla, So you were making costumes at
the time for the Queens in Sydney Showbags. Yeah, ah,
so I didn't know this part actually, So you were
working with this community of queens around you. So then
how do you get the call to start working on
the film.
Speaker 4 (07:33):
Well, Stephen Elliott like the costumes I've been doing for
the show Bags, and he knew how it'd be cheap
because I can sew and you and you needed somebody
to do drag.
Speaker 3 (07:45):
So he found me through friends and we did it.
Speaker 4 (07:50):
That was my first I mean, I've been working as
an assistant designer on various TV shows like E Street.
Speaker 3 (07:57):
Was my first job as a designer and boil up.
Speaker 2 (08:01):
How old were you at the time?
Speaker 4 (08:02):
I was twenty four. I was twenty five when I
won the Oscar.
Speaker 1 (08:08):
Jeez jeezz jeez, oh my god, I feel like I've
already lost my crime now I'm way past that.
Speaker 2 (08:15):
What have I got left?
Speaker 1 (08:16):
Oh?
Speaker 3 (08:17):
No, I was so unprepared. I wouldn't wish it on anybody.
Speaker 4 (08:22):
It was kind of I went from being an Aubrey
bartender who made a bit of drag on the side
to winning an Oscar.
Speaker 3 (08:29):
I was not prepared. It was very fast growing experience.
Speaker 1 (08:34):
Yeah, I can only imagine. So what was it like
putting together this film? Did you think it was going
to go anywhere? Did you know that it was going
to be such a big hit or were you just
taking each day?
Speaker 4 (08:49):
You know? Well, I was kind of lucky. So we
started a film there. I've got a studio. They gave
me a studio in what was actually the boil Is
to Show, which it was back then, which is now
Fox Studios. And then the film lost is funding, but
I still had my studio, so I actually ended up
(09:10):
having about eight months to make things. So I just
kept making and making and remaking and redoing and remaking,
and as you know, anything that you've got time to
work on, just get staying around David and better. But
you know, I'm shound to bit up my own ass.
But there was a couple of moments where I looked
at stuff and O and no one's ever seen any
(09:31):
of this before I.
Speaker 3 (09:33):
Could get nominated. I could get nominated for a logan.
Speaker 1 (09:40):
See, that's still the pinnacle for me. That is still
the ultimate goal. One day I want one of those
little suckers. I don't care about the other ones. That
is the absolute camper for me. I want one of those.
Speaker 3 (09:51):
I've seen you on telor you're good on teling.
Speaker 1 (09:53):
I think let the Logi people know, please put in
a good word please. So you're working, you're designing all
these looks, and then do you get to you travel
with the film, right, you go out into the upback,
you're there while it's all happening.
Speaker 3 (10:07):
Oh yeah.
Speaker 4 (10:07):
It was such a wild experience because I've never seen
any of Australia, especially not that part of Australia.
Speaker 3 (10:15):
So it was this huge adventure.
Speaker 4 (10:17):
And everybody was around the same age as me except
for Terns, and they just did a bunch of idiots
traveling across Australia making this film and we were having
we were all very invested in what we were doing,
but having the best time. And I think that translates
(10:37):
onto film. I think somehow you're able to read that,
and I think that's one of the.
Speaker 3 (10:43):
Reasons the film did so well.
Speaker 4 (10:44):
It's that there's love and joy that goes beyond and
somehow attaches itself to the actual film.
Speaker 1 (10:53):
Will you talk about some of the inspiration for the
looks that from Priscilla? Obviously came from all the queens
around you and stuff that you working on, But are
there any particular inspirations, like where do you suddenly decide
you're going to make a dress out of thongs? Where
do you decide you're going to create some of these
really wacky looks that have stood the test of time
(11:14):
and I still replicated to this day.
Speaker 4 (11:16):
Paka Rabhan did a whole series of dresses in the
sixties that we're called the Unwearable Collection and now things
like plastic discs or plastic squares, and I was like,
oh my god, there's a shopping scene. He should wear
a dress made out of credit cards. And so we
approached everybody.
Speaker 3 (11:38):
We approached all.
Speaker 4 (11:38):
The credit card companies. We even approached Target to see
if they would give us one of their lay by gods,
and everyone said no. But my mum worked at Target
and I was visiting her and she was like, I've
got to carry this box of thongs and I was.
Speaker 3 (11:57):
Like, do you say guns?
Speaker 4 (11:59):
Oh my god, the colors are perfect and we've got dogs,
and we've got them with my mum's discount which made
that dress cost about eighteen dollars.
Speaker 1 (12:09):
Which you could not replicate this day, and a lot
of drag queens try to and it's impossible. So that
kind of touches on something which I'd like to talk about.
Was there a lot of pushback when you were trying
to produce this film where you know, you say that
target didn't want to help you, These people didn't want
to help you. Was it because it was such a
queer film, people a bit hesitant to even be associated
(12:31):
with it.
Speaker 3 (12:31):
Well, yeah, one hundred percent.
Speaker 4 (12:32):
It was a little obscure Australian film about drag queens,
and back then drag queens, even though we had, like
we had people on TV doing drag in Australia, it
was just not it wasn't we know that being gay
was still illegal?
Speaker 3 (12:52):
Well, I think it may just become.
Speaker 4 (12:54):
Illegal in like the early nineteens, and gay was weird
and also we were going through the Aide crisis, so
we were weird and we were poisonous.
Speaker 1 (13:06):
But it really stood the test of time and the triumphant,
you know, victory that you all had in creating that
film as something just so incredible. And I've had the
opportunity to interview a lot of drag artists that were
around during the time that Priscilla was being produced and
when it came out, and there's obviously lots of different
(13:27):
mixed stories that I hear from, depending how bitter some
people are. But the big through line is how incredible
Priscilla was for visibility for the queer community, visibility for
the drag artists, and on top of that, created so
many new opportunities for all of these people and really
demystified the drag community and the queer community to the
(13:51):
larger world.
Speaker 3 (13:52):
They were people.
Speaker 4 (13:53):
Yeah, Yeah, it was a film about people who happened
to do drag and they were not really well formed tep.
You know, the characters were deligiously made. And I love
that one had kid. I mean, I've got it's based
on Ritual fingers life story, and I know he's a
bit bigger about it, and so it should be, because
it would be so hard to see your life story
(14:15):
made into this internationally successful film. But I hope that
he feels touched that his life story also changed lives
of I'm serious it's changed the lives of thousands of people.
Speaker 2 (14:29):
No, I completely agree.
Speaker 1 (14:32):
And on top of that, it's also thrown a spotlight
back on people like Cindy Pastel and the drag community
at the time, and now that people are really interested
to find out even more about them and the community
and what was going on while he was working on Priscilla.
It sounds like the most glamorous thing in the world.
(14:52):
You know, you had your own studio, you got to
be on the road. But tell me what was it
actually like? You know, how did you know? How did
you get paid?
Speaker 3 (14:59):
Was scruffy shit.
Speaker 4 (15:00):
One of the wonderful things was the producers were very
egalitarian and we go to share of the film. Lizzy
and I got to share. The caterer even got to share.
And it's kind of towards the end of when that happens,
but now the only people who get points on a
film at the producers and the leads. So it was
it was scruffy as ship making. It was so scruffy
(15:23):
we got out there. They got us the cheapest possible
wardrobe truck, which was a mister Whippie Van, and mister
Whippie Van shat itself just outside of Lake Eyre. Because
I'd hot flued half the dresses together, they all melted
into one giant lunth.
Speaker 2 (15:42):
Oh they would yeah.
Speaker 4 (15:44):
And the only other vand available was the top of
the line, mezzanine level gorgeous, brand new trailer. So I
had to sit in there and remake everything in my
condition comforts with my lovely music, and Lizzie had to
be on set with the flies in the face.
Speaker 3 (16:04):
Oh, oh my god, the flies out there.
Speaker 2 (16:07):
I can only imagine.
Speaker 1 (16:08):
I've done some gigs over the years out in those
desolate parts, and there foul, foul, the foul.
Speaker 4 (16:16):
I'll never forget the time that ter Bernadette got aff
got a fly stuff between his real Eila. Oh no,
It's like a venus fly trapper got stuck in.
Speaker 1 (16:30):
It was like, oh, is there any other crazy Atlantish
stories from working on the film.
Speaker 4 (16:39):
Oh my lord, it never ends. There's so many that.
I mean, I could go forever, I look. Honestly, I
think the biggest victory I had was the silver bustop area,
and nearly didn't happen.
Speaker 3 (16:54):
First we tested it.
Speaker 4 (16:55):
I'd made another one in SYDNEYA and it was shit,
And I went to the producers and I said it's
not really very build.
Speaker 3 (17:01):
And they said, well, what can we do? And I
was like, I need every meter.
Speaker 4 (17:06):
Of silver army in Australia and I got it out
like two days later. I had like two hundred meters
of silver army and I cut holding on the bias. Yeah,
so that when it was up blobing along behind the bus,
I figured, if it's cut on the bias, it's not
going to tear as easily and it will catch the air. Anyway,
(17:28):
cut to five forty five in the morning. Buses set
up guys on top of the bus. We've rigged the
silver Lamay and I you know, lined it up down
the road and the bus takes off and the lamae
just goes across the brown and nothing, and I'm like,
(17:49):
oh god, down and steps like research research.
Speaker 3 (17:52):
So I run over, dragged pull the lame back out
and we do it again in the same result, but
a look at the work.
Speaker 4 (17:58):
This is the safety opposite comes over to me and says, Jim,
I'm really sorry to tell you this, but you're going
to have to cut it off because you get caught
in the back axle. And okay, So with a heavy
heart and her head hung low, and my big scissors
marched over to pick up the lamade to cut it,
(18:18):
and right at that second, a great, big gust wind
picks it all out of my hands, and Stephan's like
queen Queen weld camera and we got the shot.
Speaker 2 (18:28):
And what a bloody great shot it is.
Speaker 3 (18:31):
I'm so proud, I'm so proud.
Speaker 4 (18:34):
Credible, and I think the thing that that shot in
particular is what really grabs everybody because it just expresses
such freedom and everyone can relate.
Speaker 2 (18:46):
To that look.
Speaker 1 (18:47):
I could talk for hours about the impact of Priscilla
and how it is still inspiring so many people to
this day. It's the story is timeless, which is wonderful,
but also so a little bit sad that it's still
so relatable in terms of where we've come in thirty years,
Like have we actually moved on enough? Have we actually progressed?
(19:09):
Because I feel like we're backtracking in the current climate.
But it is nice that this film still exists, you know.
Speaker 3 (19:15):
Well, we're working on too now. Ooh yeah.
Speaker 4 (19:19):
And it's also very important and kind of dangerous and punk,
and it's about old gage and old transsexuals and what
happens to us now, But all old show girls deserve
our happy endings, and that's so exciting.
Speaker 1 (19:40):
Coming up, we find out what Tim really thinks about
RuPaul's Drag Race and what he thinks about the current
state of camp costuming in the country. So here with
Tim Chappel, the costume designer from The Adventures Priscilla, Queen
(20:01):
of the Desert. Now, Tim, I want to go back
to RuPaul's drag Race for a moment. I feel like,
for me personally, there was a kind of moment in
history where drag did kind of lose its fun. It
became about either looking as feminine as possible so it
could be unclockable, or it wasn't as effervescent as camp. Well,
(20:25):
I think we lost a lot of the CAMPERI for
a while, and I feel like that was because of
something like drag race, because that's what was being celebrated
at the time. But it's inspiring to hear that you
do think that's coming back round again because that's my
favorite type of drag.
Speaker 4 (20:39):
You know, drag was dangerous and it was a chance
to be outrageous and then chance to express sexual politics
and state of people fucked up brains on the inside
and risky people took risks, and I think people are
less likely to take risks these days. They want to
(21:02):
be entertaining and do Ariana Grande.
Speaker 1 (21:07):
That being said, there's some great costumes in Wicked, so
if they're doing that version, that's fine by me.
Speaker 3 (21:11):
Yeah. But and I'm sure she's great too.
Speaker 4 (21:13):
I reckon, I reckon, Ariana Grande would love to do
something that's a bit more risky.
Speaker 2 (21:18):
Yeah, do you think too.
Speaker 1 (21:19):
I think Drag Too has become kind of like a
piercing contest of how much money you can spend on something,
whereas I feel like the Roots used to be a
lot more creative on the source material of where you're
grabbing materials from you and everything. And that does kind
of bring back into some of the work on Priscilla.
But I remember talking to maud Boat, who you obviously
know is one of the most incredible wig makers.
Speaker 3 (21:42):
Yeah, she taught me how to make a head.
Speaker 1 (21:44):
Yes, yeah, she was telling me how the story of
her phone wigs came around and she was pulling, you know,
styrofoam boxes off the side of the road with chicken
wire and a fork and making magic happen.
Speaker 3 (21:55):
Fucking chicken wire. Oh my god.
Speaker 4 (21:57):
You know I made parents damn believe with mord taught
chicken wire headdress. He came down of Kings Canyon and
he said, Tim, I'm a little bit itchy just here,
and as you pointed to his.
Speaker 3 (22:09):
Forage, a bead of blood ran down his place. Bucket
chicken wire. We don't use chicken wire anymore, thanks Mardie.
Speaker 2 (22:18):
So yeah, we definitely have evolved in some aspects.
Speaker 1 (22:21):
But some of my favorite drag these days still is
where it is isn't about you know, how expensive the
materials are. It's about the concept or where things have
come from. And I really hope that that style of
drag can still find its place in this world of
drag race and beyond.
Speaker 4 (22:41):
Yeah, and it has got a place, because the thing
is is when you've got no money money, you have
to be inventive. And when you're forced to be inventive,
it makes you super creative. And you know, style doesn't
cost anything. You can be ultra stylish and had a
year month the.
Speaker 2 (22:59):
Other The question I want to ask you before before
we go is can you rate my look?
Speaker 3 (23:07):
Well? I love that you took an old Russian lady's
dress and then.
Speaker 4 (23:14):
Shredded it and then put it on your blocks sheer
black plat shoes. And I love that you mask their
hot glue marks with winestones.
Speaker 3 (23:26):
It's perfect.
Speaker 2 (23:27):
See that's all the secrets.
Speaker 3 (23:29):
Your eye makeup is really sensational to that.
Speaker 2 (23:33):
Oh, thank you, thank you very much. I'll take it.
Speaker 1 (23:36):
Might not get a costume compliment, but I'll take the
makeup compliment.
Speaker 5 (23:39):
Oh no, hang on. Note what I was saying may
have sound neerchie, but I don't mean that. It's a
pinnacle of mock to Croc is what you've got on.
Speaker 2 (23:51):
Thank you, thank you.
Speaker 1 (23:53):
One of my favorite things to do with drag is
I'll just sometimes I might be in a two dollar shop,
or i might be in a random gift store and
I'll just see a whole bunch of one item and
I go, I need them all. I don't know what
I'm gonna do, but I'm gonna make a head dress.
So I'm gonna make a dress. So we're gonna do something.
And that's dragged to me.
Speaker 2 (24:08):
I love it.
Speaker 3 (24:09):
That is the pinnacle of mock to Kroock is doing that.
Speaker 1 (24:13):
It's spot that you go, I know what that could
be I tell you, I still have tubs of random
objects and items from all over the years, being like no,
I'll use it one day, and I do.
Speaker 2 (24:22):
I go back to them.
Speaker 1 (24:23):
So my hoarder tendencies are always encouraged, which is a
terrible thing to say to a drag queen, but hey,
if the.
Speaker 3 (24:29):
Shoe fits you, put the whore in.
Speaker 2 (24:31):
However, I do guilty as charge.
Speaker 1 (24:45):
That was Tim, an Australian icon who can almost dress
as well as I can.
Speaker 3 (24:51):
Not.
Speaker 1 (24:51):
Every day you get two of the best dressed icons
sitting in one studio.
Speaker 2 (24:55):
I know you want to check us out.
Speaker 4 (24:57):
Do it.
Speaker 2 (24:58):
The socials are waiting for you the
Speaker 1 (25:07):
Next
Hold on to your lashes. The queen has arrived me
Art Simone and.
Speaker 2 (00:13):
I have a premonition.
Speaker 1 (00:15):
I can see it clearly, someone wrapped in a tragic
beige outfit, a riddle and some hidden sparkle. But you've
really got a squint. Oh that's I guess. Ready to
meet them me too. This is concealed with Art Simone.
Speaker 3 (00:33):
Hit it. My name is Tim and I'm currently in Sydney.
Speaker 4 (00:43):
My dad lives in the Army, so we moved around
al I went to seven different schools. I have to
say drawing has been my lightsaber growing up because it
was a way of expressing and creating and joining myself
to the world around me.
Speaker 3 (01:00):
And I was once an earring.
Speaker 4 (01:04):
I'm concealing something about myself that has catched me engine
Australian culture forever.
Speaker 1 (01:15):
Oh well, hello Tim, how are you going in beautiful
sunny Sydney today?
Speaker 4 (01:21):
It is actually a gorgeous winter's sunny day.
Speaker 1 (01:25):
I am very jealous, but look, you've popped onto my
screen and I have to admit I know exactly who
you are, but our audience doesn't just yet, So I
still want to play our regular game that we do
here at concealed and ask you three questions, and from
the answers to those three questions, the audience can try
and work out what it is you are concealing from
(01:48):
us here today.
Speaker 2 (01:49):
Does that sound all right?
Speaker 3 (01:50):
It sounds like a lot of fun, all right.
Speaker 1 (01:53):
So, Tim, the first question I have for you is,
if you were to be an adamant object, what would
you be?
Speaker 2 (02:01):
Would it be an earring?
Speaker 3 (02:02):
Yeah, let's go back to the earring. They're inanimate.
Speaker 4 (02:05):
It depends on how fast you're wiggling, whether the very
inanimate or not the old full definition of earring. I mean,
I know for a fact that you are very good
at accessorizing your beautiful face. But back in the day,
a pair of male dancers either side of a drag
(02:26):
queen were called ear rings.
Speaker 1 (02:28):
Oh no, that is news to me. Boys don't get
up and dance with drag queens anymore.
Speaker 2 (02:33):
I tell you what.
Speaker 1 (02:33):
There's not enough for him on our tiny stages. But
I do like that term. So you used to be
a dancer, Okay, all right? Do you still like to
wiggle it?
Speaker 3 (02:42):
Well? Yeah I do.
Speaker 4 (02:44):
I have to get my zimmer frame out these days,
but yeah, sure, I haven't been an ewring for a
long time.
Speaker 3 (02:51):
I'm more of a necklace, a pearl necklace.
Speaker 2 (02:55):
All right, all right, right?
Speaker 1 (02:56):
Question number two, If you were to name a cockt
what would it be?
Speaker 4 (03:02):
It would be such a giveaway though. It would be
a cock on a rock in a frock.
Speaker 1 (03:10):
Oh okay, Oh, I wonder what that could allude to.
Speaker 2 (03:15):
It's a mystery.
Speaker 1 (03:17):
Maybe you're really into bouldering, who knows, or maybe into fowl.
Speaker 2 (03:21):
You could be really into chickens, who knows? Okay.
Speaker 1 (03:24):
And the third question I have for you is how
would you want to leave this earth?
Speaker 2 (03:30):
We get a bit metaphorical, a little bit deep.
Speaker 4 (03:35):
Let's just say that when that moment comes, whether I'm
being crushed, a tire is going over my head, a
bus tire, I will leave this earth happy knowing that
I've contributed something to Australia's identity.
Speaker 1 (03:51):
Okay, so let's recap Tim. What clues have you given
the audience here today? Used to be an ear ring akay,
a dancer with the drag queens. And if you were
to be run over by a bus, I would die happy.
Oh I'll tell you what. It's really difficult to piece
(04:12):
these things together. A bus, a cock, and a frock
and a rock you know, a drag queen's drag bags.
Speaker 2 (04:19):
So hard I wonder what it could be.
Speaker 1 (04:22):
Well, I think I know, but I think we're gonna
throw it back to you to announce your official title
of what you're concealing from us here today.
Speaker 4 (04:34):
My name is Tim Chapel, and I'm the costume designer
from the Adventures of Priscilla, Queen of the Desert, made
in nineteen ninety four.
Speaker 1 (04:47):
Yeah, it's mister Tim Chapel, icon lension superstar costumey a designer.
Speaker 2 (04:57):
Ah you, I'm so excited to speak to you.
Speaker 1 (04:59):
This has been the best surprise I've had in a
very long time because your work has impacted so many lives, careers,
artists across the world for the last three decades. And ah,
I want to pick your little brain, mister Tim Chapple.
Speaker 3 (05:15):
Ooh, pick away, pick away. My brain is open, ready
and waiting for picking.
Speaker 1 (05:20):
Oh good, because I do have my best nails on,
so I will be digging deep. Let's start with what
you led with, which is Priscilla, Queen of the Desert,
an iconic Australian film. The I would say, in my eyes,
the pinnacle of drag representation in the mainstream, especially for
our beautiful drag community here.
Speaker 2 (05:41):
How did you get started on it? Where did it happen?
Speaker 4 (05:43):
Well, look, I just I want to just correct a
little bit of what you just said. I didn't invent
the look. I just channeled it. That look already existed
in Sydney in the early nineties because back then there
wasn't internet, there weren't cell phones, and Sydney was this
gorgeous melting part of the most incredible, incredible creativity fashion,
(06:08):
music and the drag scene was phenomenal. And I just
was in the drag scene making stuff for people like
Greedy and Cyndy Pastel and Banina Bards, and I just
channeled that look into the film and it made me.
(06:31):
It did very well for me, And yes I did.
I did influence a lot, because I'm a genius.
Speaker 3 (06:37):
There's no denying that part.
Speaker 4 (06:39):
But going totally off track, what I find really fascinating
now is how RuPaul's Drag Race has done this big
that taken a very very big circle around and now
the people who do well on RuPaul's Drag Race embody
that that, you know what I mean, they do drag.
(07:02):
That's interesting that's got character, that's telling stories.
Speaker 3 (07:07):
It's not just about being pretty.
Speaker 4 (07:09):
There's nothing wrong with being pretty, but pretty and interesting
it's going to get you way further.
Speaker 1 (07:13):
Going back to Priscilla, So you were making costumes at
the time for the Queens in Sydney Showbags. Yeah, ah,
so I didn't know this part actually, So you were
working with this community of queens around you. So then
how do you get the call to start working on
the film.
Speaker 4 (07:33):
Well, Stephen Elliott like the costumes I've been doing for
the show Bags, and he knew how it'd be cheap
because I can sew and you and you needed somebody
to do drag.
Speaker 3 (07:45):
So he found me through friends and we did it.
Speaker 4 (07:50):
That was my first I mean, I've been working as
an assistant designer on various TV shows like E Street.
Speaker 3 (07:57):
Was my first job as a designer and boil up.
Speaker 2 (08:01):
How old were you at the time?
Speaker 4 (08:02):
I was twenty four. I was twenty five when I
won the Oscar.
Speaker 1 (08:08):
Jeez jeezz jeez, oh my god, I feel like I've
already lost my crime now I'm way past that.
Speaker 2 (08:15):
What have I got left?
Speaker 1 (08:16):
Oh?
Speaker 3 (08:17):
No, I was so unprepared. I wouldn't wish it on anybody.
Speaker 4 (08:22):
It was kind of I went from being an Aubrey
bartender who made a bit of drag on the side
to winning an Oscar.
Speaker 3 (08:29):
I was not prepared. It was very fast growing experience.
Speaker 1 (08:34):
Yeah, I can only imagine. So what was it like
putting together this film? Did you think it was going
to go anywhere? Did you know that it was going
to be such a big hit or were you just
taking each day?
Speaker 4 (08:49):
You know? Well, I was kind of lucky. So we
started a film there. I've got a studio. They gave
me a studio in what was actually the boil Is
to Show, which it was back then, which is now
Fox Studios. And then the film lost is funding, but
I still had my studio, so I actually ended up
(09:10):
having about eight months to make things. So I just
kept making and making and remaking and redoing and remaking,
and as you know, anything that you've got time to
work on, just get staying around David and better. But
you know, I'm shound to bit up my own ass.
But there was a couple of moments where I looked
at stuff and O and no one's ever seen any
(09:31):
of this before I.
Speaker 3 (09:33):
Could get nominated. I could get nominated for a logan.
Speaker 1 (09:40):
See, that's still the pinnacle for me. That is still
the ultimate goal. One day I want one of those
little suckers. I don't care about the other ones. That
is the absolute camper for me. I want one of those.
Speaker 3 (09:51):
I've seen you on telor you're good on teling.
Speaker 1 (09:53):
I think let the Logi people know, please put in
a good word please. So you're working, you're designing all
these looks, and then do you get to you travel
with the film, right, you go out into the upback,
you're there while it's all happening.
Speaker 3 (10:07):
Oh yeah.
Speaker 4 (10:07):
It was such a wild experience because I've never seen
any of Australia, especially not that part of Australia.
Speaker 3 (10:15):
So it was this huge adventure.
Speaker 4 (10:17):
And everybody was around the same age as me except
for Terns, and they just did a bunch of idiots
traveling across Australia making this film and we were having
we were all very invested in what we were doing,
but having the best time. And I think that translates
(10:37):
onto film. I think somehow you're able to read that,
and I think that's one of the.
Speaker 3 (10:43):
Reasons the film did so well.
Speaker 4 (10:44):
It's that there's love and joy that goes beyond and
somehow attaches itself to the actual film.
Speaker 1 (10:53):
Will you talk about some of the inspiration for the
looks that from Priscilla? Obviously came from all the queens
around you and stuff that you working on, But are
there any particular inspirations, like where do you suddenly decide
you're going to make a dress out of thongs? Where
do you decide you're going to create some of these
really wacky looks that have stood the test of time
(11:14):
and I still replicated to this day.
Speaker 4 (11:16):
Paka Rabhan did a whole series of dresses in the
sixties that we're called the Unwearable Collection and now things
like plastic discs or plastic squares, and I was like,
oh my god, there's a shopping scene. He should wear
a dress made out of credit cards. And so we
approached everybody.
Speaker 3 (11:38):
We approached all.
Speaker 4 (11:38):
The credit card companies. We even approached Target to see
if they would give us one of their lay by gods,
and everyone said no. But my mum worked at Target
and I was visiting her and she was like, I've
got to carry this box of thongs and I was.
Speaker 3 (11:57):
Like, do you say guns?
Speaker 4 (11:59):
Oh my god, the colors are perfect and we've got dogs,
and we've got them with my mum's discount which made
that dress cost about eighteen dollars.
Speaker 1 (12:09):
Which you could not replicate this day, and a lot
of drag queens try to and it's impossible. So that
kind of touches on something which I'd like to talk about.
Was there a lot of pushback when you were trying
to produce this film where you know, you say that
target didn't want to help you, These people didn't want
to help you. Was it because it was such a
queer film, people a bit hesitant to even be associated
(12:31):
with it.
Speaker 3 (12:31):
Well, yeah, one hundred percent.
Speaker 4 (12:32):
It was a little obscure Australian film about drag queens,
and back then drag queens, even though we had, like
we had people on TV doing drag in Australia, it
was just not it wasn't we know that being gay
was still illegal?
Speaker 3 (12:52):
Well, I think it may just become.
Speaker 4 (12:54):
Illegal in like the early nineteens, and gay was weird
and also we were going through the Aide crisis, so
we were weird and we were poisonous.
Speaker 1 (13:06):
But it really stood the test of time and the triumphant,
you know, victory that you all had in creating that
film as something just so incredible. And I've had the
opportunity to interview a lot of drag artists that were
around during the time that Priscilla was being produced and
when it came out, and there's obviously lots of different
(13:27):
mixed stories that I hear from, depending how bitter some
people are. But the big through line is how incredible
Priscilla was for visibility for the queer community, visibility for
the drag artists, and on top of that, created so
many new opportunities for all of these people and really
demystified the drag community and the queer community to the
(13:51):
larger world.
Speaker 3 (13:52):
They were people.
Speaker 4 (13:53):
Yeah, Yeah, it was a film about people who happened
to do drag and they were not really well formed tep.
You know, the characters were deligiously made. And I love
that one had kid. I mean, I've got it's based
on Ritual fingers life story, and I know he's a
bit bigger about it, and so it should be, because
it would be so hard to see your life story
(14:15):
made into this internationally successful film. But I hope that
he feels touched that his life story also changed lives
of I'm serious it's changed the lives of thousands of people.
Speaker 2 (14:29):
No, I completely agree.
Speaker 1 (14:32):
And on top of that, it's also thrown a spotlight
back on people like Cindy Pastel and the drag community
at the time, and now that people are really interested
to find out even more about them and the community
and what was going on while he was working on Priscilla.
It sounds like the most glamorous thing in the world.
(14:52):
You know, you had your own studio, you got to
be on the road. But tell me what was it
actually like? You know, how did you know? How did
you get paid?
Speaker 3 (14:59):
Was scruffy shit.
Speaker 4 (15:00):
One of the wonderful things was the producers were very
egalitarian and we go to share of the film. Lizzy
and I got to share. The caterer even got to share.
And it's kind of towards the end of when that happens,
but now the only people who get points on a
film at the producers and the leads. So it was
it was scruffy as ship making. It was so scruffy
(15:23):
we got out there. They got us the cheapest possible
wardrobe truck, which was a mister Whippie Van, and mister
Whippie Van shat itself just outside of Lake Eyre. Because
I'd hot flued half the dresses together, they all melted
into one giant lunth.
Speaker 2 (15:42):
Oh they would yeah.
Speaker 4 (15:44):
And the only other vand available was the top of
the line, mezzanine level gorgeous, brand new trailer. So I
had to sit in there and remake everything in my
condition comforts with my lovely music, and Lizzie had to
be on set with the flies in the face.
Speaker 3 (16:04):
Oh, oh my god, the flies out there.
Speaker 2 (16:07):
I can only imagine.
Speaker 1 (16:08):
I've done some gigs over the years out in those
desolate parts, and there foul, foul, the foul.
Speaker 4 (16:16):
I'll never forget the time that ter Bernadette got aff
got a fly stuff between his real Eila. Oh no,
It's like a venus fly trapper got stuck in.
Speaker 1 (16:30):
It was like, oh, is there any other crazy Atlantish
stories from working on the film.
Speaker 4 (16:39):
Oh my lord, it never ends. There's so many that.
I mean, I could go forever, I look. Honestly, I
think the biggest victory I had was the silver bustop area,
and nearly didn't happen.
Speaker 3 (16:54):
First we tested it.
Speaker 4 (16:55):
I'd made another one in SYDNEYA and it was shit,
And I went to the producers and I said it's
not really very build.
Speaker 3 (17:01):
And they said, well, what can we do? And I
was like, I need every meter.
Speaker 4 (17:06):
Of silver army in Australia and I got it out
like two days later. I had like two hundred meters
of silver army and I cut holding on the bias. Yeah,
so that when it was up blobing along behind the bus,
I figured, if it's cut on the bias, it's not
going to tear as easily and it will catch the air. Anyway,
(17:28):
cut to five forty five in the morning. Buses set
up guys on top of the bus. We've rigged the
silver Lamay and I you know, lined it up down
the road and the bus takes off and the lamae
just goes across the brown and nothing, and I'm like,
(17:49):
oh god, down and steps like research research.
Speaker 3 (17:52):
So I run over, dragged pull the lame back out
and we do it again in the same result, but
a look at the work.
Speaker 4 (17:58):
This is the safety opposite comes over to me and says, Jim,
I'm really sorry to tell you this, but you're going
to have to cut it off because you get caught
in the back axle. And okay, So with a heavy
heart and her head hung low, and my big scissors
marched over to pick up the lamade to cut it,
(18:18):
and right at that second, a great, big gust wind
picks it all out of my hands, and Stephan's like
queen Queen weld camera and we got the shot.
Speaker 2 (18:28):
And what a bloody great shot it is.
Speaker 3 (18:31):
I'm so proud, I'm so proud.
Speaker 4 (18:34):
Credible, and I think the thing that that shot in
particular is what really grabs everybody because it just expresses
such freedom and everyone can relate.
Speaker 2 (18:46):
To that look.
Speaker 1 (18:47):
I could talk for hours about the impact of Priscilla
and how it is still inspiring so many people to
this day. It's the story is timeless, which is wonderful,
but also so a little bit sad that it's still
so relatable in terms of where we've come in thirty years,
Like have we actually moved on enough? Have we actually progressed?
(19:09):
Because I feel like we're backtracking in the current climate.
But it is nice that this film still exists, you know.
Speaker 3 (19:15):
Well, we're working on too now. Ooh yeah.
Speaker 4 (19:19):
And it's also very important and kind of dangerous and punk,
and it's about old gage and old transsexuals and what
happens to us now, But all old show girls deserve
our happy endings, and that's so exciting.
Speaker 1 (19:40):
Coming up, we find out what Tim really thinks about
RuPaul's Drag Race and what he thinks about the current
state of camp costuming in the country. So here with
Tim Chappel, the costume designer from The Adventures Priscilla, Queen
(20:01):
of the Desert. Now, Tim, I want to go back
to RuPaul's drag Race for a moment. I feel like,
for me personally, there was a kind of moment in
history where drag did kind of lose its fun. It
became about either looking as feminine as possible so it
could be unclockable, or it wasn't as effervescent as camp. Well,
(20:25):
I think we lost a lot of the CAMPERI for
a while, and I feel like that was because of
something like drag race, because that's what was being celebrated
at the time. But it's inspiring to hear that you
do think that's coming back round again because that's my
favorite type of drag.
Speaker 4 (20:39):
You know, drag was dangerous and it was a chance
to be outrageous and then chance to express sexual politics
and state of people fucked up brains on the inside
and risky people took risks, and I think people are
less likely to take risks these days. They want to
(21:02):
be entertaining and do Ariana Grande.
Speaker 1 (21:07):
That being said, there's some great costumes in Wicked, so
if they're doing that version, that's fine by me.
Speaker 3 (21:11):
Yeah. But and I'm sure she's great too.
Speaker 4 (21:13):
I reckon, I reckon, Ariana Grande would love to do
something that's a bit more risky.
Speaker 2 (21:18):
Yeah, do you think too.
Speaker 1 (21:19):
I think Drag Too has become kind of like a
piercing contest of how much money you can spend on something,
whereas I feel like the Roots used to be a
lot more creative on the source material of where you're
grabbing materials from you and everything. And that does kind
of bring back into some of the work on Priscilla.
But I remember talking to maud Boat, who you obviously
know is one of the most incredible wig makers.
Speaker 3 (21:42):
Yeah, she taught me how to make a head.
Speaker 1 (21:44):
Yes, yeah, she was telling me how the story of
her phone wigs came around and she was pulling, you know,
styrofoam boxes off the side of the road with chicken
wire and a fork and making magic happen.
Speaker 3 (21:55):
Fucking chicken wire. Oh my god.
Speaker 4 (21:57):
You know I made parents damn believe with mord taught
chicken wire headdress. He came down of Kings Canyon and
he said, Tim, I'm a little bit itchy just here,
and as you pointed to his.
Speaker 3 (22:09):
Forage, a bead of blood ran down his place. Bucket
chicken wire. We don't use chicken wire anymore, thanks Mardie.
Speaker 2 (22:18):
So yeah, we definitely have evolved in some aspects.
Speaker 1 (22:21):
But some of my favorite drag these days still is
where it is isn't about you know, how expensive the
materials are. It's about the concept or where things have
come from. And I really hope that that style of
drag can still find its place in this world of
drag race and beyond.
Speaker 4 (22:41):
Yeah, and it has got a place, because the thing
is is when you've got no money money, you have
to be inventive. And when you're forced to be inventive,
it makes you super creative. And you know, style doesn't
cost anything. You can be ultra stylish and had a
year month the.
Speaker 2 (22:59):
Other The question I want to ask you before before
we go is can you rate my look?
Speaker 3 (23:07):
Well? I love that you took an old Russian lady's
dress and then.
Speaker 4 (23:14):
Shredded it and then put it on your blocks sheer
black plat shoes. And I love that you mask their
hot glue marks with winestones.
Speaker 3 (23:26):
It's perfect.
Speaker 2 (23:27):
See that's all the secrets.
Speaker 3 (23:29):
Your eye makeup is really sensational to that.
Speaker 2 (23:33):
Oh, thank you, thank you very much. I'll take it.
Speaker 1 (23:36):
Might not get a costume compliment, but I'll take the
makeup compliment.
Speaker 5 (23:39):
Oh no, hang on. Note what I was saying may
have sound neerchie, but I don't mean that. It's a
pinnacle of mock to Croc is what you've got on.
Speaker 2 (23:51):
Thank you, thank you.
Speaker 1 (23:53):
One of my favorite things to do with drag is
I'll just sometimes I might be in a two dollar shop,
or i might be in a random gift store and
I'll just see a whole bunch of one item and
I go, I need them all. I don't know what
I'm gonna do, but I'm gonna make a head dress.
So I'm gonna make a dress. So we're gonna do something.
And that's dragged to me.
Speaker 2 (24:08):
I love it.
Speaker 3 (24:09):
That is the pinnacle of mock to Kroock is doing that.
Speaker 1 (24:13):
It's spot that you go, I know what that could
be I tell you, I still have tubs of random
objects and items from all over the years, being like no,
I'll use it one day, and I do.
Speaker 2 (24:22):
I go back to them.
Speaker 1 (24:23):
So my hoarder tendencies are always encouraged, which is a
terrible thing to say to a drag queen, but hey,
if the.
Speaker 3 (24:29):
Shoe fits you, put the whore in.
Speaker 2 (24:31):
However, I do guilty as charge.
Speaker 1 (24:45):
That was Tim, an Australian icon who can almost dress
as well as I can.
Speaker 3 (24:51):
Not.
Speaker 1 (24:51):
Every day you get two of the best dressed icons
sitting in one studio.
Speaker 2 (24:55):
I know you want to check us out.
Speaker 4 (24:57):
Do it.
Speaker 2 (24:58):
The socials are waiting for you the
Speaker 1 (25:07):
Next
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