July 8, 2024 • 25 mins
Meet Narelle! She's a jovial lady from regional Victoria who loves spending time on her farm with her mini tractor and chainsaw. BUT, before Narelle retired to a life on the land, she spent her years becoming one of the most recognisable people in her field.... Who is Narelle?
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:08):
Hello. I'm art Simone, and there's nothing in this world
I can't do facts. So after becoming the country's most
gorgeous and beloved drag queen, I decided the most natural
next step was becoming a sassy sleuth, uncovering the deep,
dark and dirty secrets that everyday people are keeping concealed. Okay,
well not all of them are dirty, but we are
(00:29):
definitely finding the most interesting people, even though sometimes they
look pretty boring. Ill this is concealed with me arts
Simone told to meet our guest rather the tab.
Speaker 2 (00:43):
Hi. My name's Norelle. I'm sixty four. I live in
a small community in regional Victoria. I love the outdoors.
I think I love the peace and the quiet and
the tranquility more than anything. I like to spend time
on my property. Got a new little mini tractor in
a little chainsaw, and I have a lot of fun
with that. I just love being outdoors and I am
(01:06):
a huge advocate of mental health.
Speaker 1 (01:14):
So love to have you here with me today in
the studio. You're looking gorgeous. You've got beautiful polka dots
and nice blouse on there. That's nice. I love that
I've got a hairback. It a very smart professional with
it in a crocodile clip at the back. That's very good.
Speaker 2 (01:29):
Well, actually there's been a lot of rain. Oh and
I know that you would appreciate this rain with my hair.
Speaker 1 (01:36):
That's true, it's not good. What about so wigs you,
I don't have to worry. I'll just pro take mine
off and put it in a bag and then I can.
I don't get affected by any of the rain or
the humidity. It's very handy.
Speaker 2 (01:49):
You gotta say you look gorgeous.
Speaker 1 (01:50):
Thank you, Thank you very much. I'll stop it with
flirting here today. Oh all right, Narrell ask me how
is he trying to butter me up? But I have
to do some work here today, okay, because I have
to work out what it is you're concealing from me.
All right, so from regional Vick, you have to tell
me where you are.
Speaker 2 (02:05):
From Upney, Rochester.
Speaker 1 (02:07):
Oh, yes, stunning. You love the outdoors and mini tractor?
What is a mini tractor? Just a car? No?
Speaker 2 (02:15):
No, it's an actual tractor. You know. You can pick
up dirt and.
Speaker 1 (02:19):
Oh, rush rush and a bobcat yes, something like that.
Speaker 2 (02:23):
Yeah. Yeah, it's very loud, but it's fun.
Speaker 1 (02:27):
So what I'm getting from this is you just like
your piece and quiet, no one around me, just me
and my mini chainsaw with not a care in the world.
Speaker 2 (02:36):
Yeah, pretty much. Okay, and my husband. Don't forget him.
We can't forget him. We we can't.
Speaker 1 (02:42):
Oh okay, okay, okay. What's hubby's name?
Speaker 2 (02:46):
Lloyd?
Speaker 1 (02:47):
Lloyd? All right, okay, Lloyd can stay as well. That's fine,
thank you. Okay. So I'm going to ask you three questions. Yes,
and from the answers to those three questions, I'm going
to try and work out what it is you're concealing
from me. Are you ready?
Speaker 2 (03:03):
I am ready?
Speaker 1 (03:04):
Okay. Question number one, what game show would you choose
to go on?
Speaker 2 (03:10):
Deal or No Deal?
Speaker 1 (03:12):
Oh? Alright, alright, bit of money play?
Speaker 2 (03:16):
Actually, can I tell you why I go on Deal
or No Because I think I'd be good at opening
and closing cases?
Speaker 1 (03:27):
Oh okay. Question number two, if you had to pick
a slang word to use every day, what would it be?
Speaker 2 (03:35):
Clean skin?
Speaker 1 (03:37):
Clean skin? What? What is that is that a slang word?
Speaker 2 (03:45):
What to a word? Clean skin?
Speaker 1 (03:48):
Clean skin? Red? Okay, clean skin? And final question, if
you were involved in an intricate bank heist? What role
would you play.
Speaker 2 (04:00):
I wouldn't play any particular role. I'd more likely be
the person on the other side foiling their plans.
Speaker 1 (04:12):
Oh, so you're not gonna work all right, okay, foiling plans? Okay,
So let me put together what you've served for me
today morel okay. So we got deal and no your
cases all right, foiling plans okay, and clean skin. So
(04:32):
we're kind of in the world of bank robberies and
and hests and ooh crime okay, and mini tractors. Got
to put that in there as well, okayaw And the change?
Are you a professional safe cracker person? Was that? You
(04:53):
know when they break into saves? Say code crack? What
is it?
Speaker 2 (04:56):
Call? No? No, I'll make it easy for you, an.
Speaker 1 (05:06):
I have a locksmith.
Speaker 2 (05:15):
Hi. I'm Noel Fraser. I worked with Victoria Police for
twenty seven years. I spent fifteen of those years working
as a detective. I worked in many different squads, including homicide,
missing persons, child exploitation. I've worked on some of the
state's most high profile cases and years. I've seen a
lot in my job, and that led to my retirement
(05:36):
and fueled my passion. I suppose as a mental health advocate,
which is how I spend my days.
Speaker 1 (05:42):
Now, sonrel isn't a safe cracker or a locksmith. She
is a former detective. Oh my goodness, well, at least
you're about to give me the contact details for a
good safe crack of Then Norella is going to speak
(06:10):
about some confronting themes around death, which some might find upsetting.
If you think you need to sit this one out,
no hard feelings, go back and listen to any one
of the incredible podcast episodes I have ready for you
in the feed. We're here with NoREL and I've just
found out that you were not, in fact a safe cracker,
(06:30):
no or locksmiths. No, No, you were a former detective
who has worked on some of the States' most notorious cases. Yes,
I feel like I have to behave differently now around you.
Speaker 2 (06:41):
I feel and you know what, That's why I don't
tell people you can't that funny year, because people exactly
like you say, yeah, people get all nervous.
Speaker 1 (06:49):
What's the same thing when you see a police car
drive past you and even if you're not doing anything,
you're not spinning, You're like everyone slows down to thirty
kilometers an hour on the freeway and they're like, no, no,
I know what do you excuse me?
Speaker 2 (07:00):
Excuse me?
Speaker 1 (07:01):
Well, is that a bit of stigma you've had to
face a whole your whole life working in the force.
Speaker 2 (07:06):
Yeah, there is a bit of stigma, but you you
understand people have a bit of a what would you
call it a fascination I suppose with detectives and police.
But yeah, but it's to be honest, I feel very
proud of what I did, and yeah, I don't hide
from it. I used to do a bit.
Speaker 1 (07:27):
So how did you get into the police and work
to go into being a detective? Like, how did that
journey happen?
Speaker 2 (07:32):
I was a secretary for a long time, and I
became a counselor with Lifeline because I'd always been interested
in people and you know, maybe trying to help people
that maybe weren't as fortunate as I had been in
my upbringing. And so when I went too Lifeline, the
number of people that rang Lifeline to say I'm going
(07:54):
to you know, oh, I can't do this anymore. And
I thought, how can I get to people before they
ring Lifeline so that I could help them in some way?
And so that's when I thought about policing. And you know,
I was twenty seven. I traveled Australia in a combie.
I had a ball and I thought I'd seen I
(08:15):
thought I knew a fair bit about life.
Speaker 1 (08:18):
So you go into the police force, Then how do
you move up into detective work?
Speaker 2 (08:24):
Well, I had to study, I had to go to
detective training school. But I felt like the detectives. As
a detective, the investigations are so much more challenging. They're
very intense, and I just sort of felt it was
like a bee to a honeypot. The worse the job
(08:45):
was as in, the more traumatic it was, I just
felt I had the right sort of personality. I just
wanted to be there. And that's why I ended up
going into the squads. So homicide, missing persons, because that
is you know, that's the from a police point of view.
You know, that's the kream Dela Creme, and I just
(09:07):
loved it.
Speaker 1 (09:08):
So, you know, you speak of how you enjoyed a
lot of the people work. What skill set do you
think makes a good detective.
Speaker 2 (09:18):
I think you've got to be a very good communicator.
I think you need to be very empathetic, very understanding,
but also very passionate and not leave a stone unturned.
People think that you've got to be a good talker,
for instance, to be a detective, to get people to
(09:39):
open up to you right and tell you what's happened
in their worst possible time of their life. A good
detective needs to be able to listen. Your interviewing skills
and you learn that at detective training school about interviewing
skills and how to get people to open up to
you and feel more comfortable.
Speaker 1 (09:59):
Do you think you know, after being in that line
of work for so long, do you think you have
a very good human lighte detector? Do you think you're
really good at that? Is?
Speaker 2 (10:12):
Absolutely? It's a yes. I mean yeah, you know there's
another skill in knowing somebody's lying. Yes, And you think
how long am I going to let them hang themselves
for until I say I know you've done it?
Speaker 1 (10:26):
Does good cop bad cop? Exist? Is that? Ah? What's
your favorite role to play? A good cop or bad cop?
Speaker 2 (10:34):
Oh? My favorite would be a good cop because that's
what I'm better at.
Speaker 1 (10:38):
Yeah, I reckon you've got a bad cop side.
Speaker 2 (10:41):
Hey, don't worry, I've got a bad cop. In fact,
I can remember one guy who I knew had done
this crime. He'd actually murdered his wife and I knew
he had and he was telling me all this pardon
me bullshit, and I remember I shouldn't have and I
remember poking him in the chest and I said, I
know you've fucking done this, and I'm going to get
(11:03):
you if it's a last thing I do. And you
know what I didn't. I never got it. Yeah, damn it.
Speaker 1 (11:15):
So what would the day to day life of a
detective look like like? Would you be assigned a case
and then that's what you're focused on for the next
ll till it's done, or are you getting a new
one every day? Go oh well, I'm sorry about that one.
We're doing this one.
Speaker 2 (11:29):
There's no normal day as a detective because you can
go into work. Let's say you start at seven, and
sometimes you can go in there and they go, we've
got a warrant. We're going to a round of this address. Quick,
get your gun, get everything, we're going, and then it's
just go, go go, because you can go to i know,
let's say, a warrant, and then you find other offenses
(11:50):
that have occurred, and you've got to go and grab
somebody else, grab a crook. We call them crooks. But
there's no day to day. But you can go in
with into the office with visions, oh I'm going to
do this job today, like this investigation, and it can
all pardon me, just turn to shit the minute you
walk in. Yeah, there is no day the same. There's
very few days where you can just have a bit
(12:13):
of time out because what happens is you might come
back from that warrant and want to go home like I. No,
let's say it's five or six o'clock at night and no,
let's say a rape comes in. You can't go home.
So you've got to then go to that job, and
you come in the next morning and you've got to
go to court, or you come in the next morning
and something else is going on. It is it's relentless,
(12:35):
to be honest.
Speaker 1 (12:36):
Does that make work home life balance really difficult? Yes,
because even you know, on my own experience, I'm doing
nothing similar to you, but I struggle because there's no
definitive end to things. It's like, well, we'll do the
next thing, do the next thing. Ye, So how does
that work for someone like you?
Speaker 2 (12:56):
Well, it's exactly the same. You've got to be very
mindful of it. And what I found was I found
that I loved going out, let's say, with my girlfriends
for a dream core from dinner or something because they
would talk about this sounds wrong, but the mundane stuff.
You know, they couldn't get a park outside the kinder
somebody's you know, I had one of the kids is
(13:19):
had diarrhea overnight. All they've been It's good to have
your feet on the ground and know that it's not
normal to talk about death messages, to talk about sexual assault,
it's not normal. So you've got I found that by
keeping the friends that I grew up with that weren't police.
I found that a really good grounding, kind.
Speaker 1 (13:40):
Of like a touchstone there for you to go back
in and be like, yeah, oh, real people exist because
you're getting the real extreme ends of people, the highest
type of emotion and experience and everything. So I'm going
to understand how that's is everyone like this? Yes, So
you said you've worked on some high profile cases. What
(14:03):
are some of the cases you've solved that you can
talk about.
Speaker 2 (14:05):
And well, I can talk about them because they've been solved.
There's either a person in jail or. They've all been
through the courts. So there's nothing that I can't talk
that I'm going to tell you about. But I just
want to take you back there. It's not ones that
I have solved. I have been involved in solving them,
(14:26):
because the ones I was going to tell you about
were say ones at the squads. They're the Really they're
a big, high profile jobs where everyone's you notice I
say jobs, We say that all the time. They're investigations, right,
should call them gigs? Oh no, you can't call them gigs.
Speaker 1 (14:42):
Can't do a gig?
Speaker 2 (14:43):
Do I do that? I feel a bit of a
dickcare talk talking about I've got a gig here.
Speaker 1 (14:49):
Love it. I think we can trade lingo pollinating. I
like it.
Speaker 2 (14:54):
But yet, yes, so a couple of jobs whenever there's
a child involved. And I don't want to bring this down,
but it's reality. Anything that involves a child just takes
an investigation to another level. And you can't walk away
from jobs that have been involved with a child, let's
say child abuse or child exploitation or a child being killed.
(15:20):
You know, they are really tough jobs. And one of
the ones that I worked on was Anna and Gracie Sharp.
It was called the Mornington Monster and John Sharp. They
lived in Mornington. They'd had little Gracie and as pregnant
with their second child, and John's just had enough of her.
He kills her, puts her in a rubbish bag and
(15:42):
throws her out in the rubbish that you do like
peeling your potatoes. Then a couple of days later he
kills a little girl. And I won't go into that,
but he kills a little girl, the little seventeen month old,
because he thinks that she needs to be with her mum.
But he also throws her out in the rubbish in
(16:02):
a bag, like in a rubbish bag. I found. We
found out that they are at a tip. Yes, and
I found I did. I found Anna in a bag
at a tip. I've never ever had to search so
(16:22):
many blue sports bags in my life. But on the
tenth day I found her. And to be honest, I
felt this real sound bizarre, but I felt almost euphoric
initially because I just felt, thank God, this poor woman
isn't going to end her life in a filthy, rat infested,
(16:46):
asbestos ridden tip. And so that was initially it was like,
thank goodness, I've found her. She's now over. She's been
buried over with her mum in New Zealand, and little
Gracie was found a couple of days later. I think
I was saved. Finding Anna was very traumatic, but I
(17:09):
don't think I could well, I know I couldn't have
dealt with finding little Gracie. The boys that I worked
with they found her. I must have had court or
something this particular day. But I feel I was saved
because I couldn't have dealt with that anyway. So there's
you know, jobs like that. And to listen to John Sharp,
who is now doing thirty three years, I think it
(17:30):
is for the two murders. He eventually confessed. But to
hear John Sharp talk about how he had killed Anna
and Gracie, it was like he killed an ant on
the footpath.
Speaker 1 (17:42):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (17:43):
No, he just he had the personality of a stop sign,
you know, like he he just sorry. It's just such
a good description, isn't it. But he did there was
he just was. He had nothing. He was just a nudy,
pathetic man. Anyway, So there was that one I found
(18:06):
Maria Corp. I found Maria in a boot up. We
as in the team when we found the car and
she'd been strangled by it. This is a little bit saucy,
but Maria Corp had been married to Joe. She thought
very happily, but Joe was very very frustrated with their
(18:26):
sex life. Thought it needed a bit of but yes, yes,
spicing up perfect. So he says to Maria, let's go
on a dating site for threesomes. So they find a threesome.
They find a lady Tanya, who wants to get involved.
Her and Joe together murdered Maria. Joe got organized at all,
(18:52):
and Tanya is the one that actually strangled her. She
believed that she was dead, and she put her in
the boot of the car and drove her to just
out in the CBD and we did a media release.
We found the car, and we found Maria in the boot,
and for all intents and purposes, we thought she was dead.
But somebody had to get in and check that she was.
(19:15):
So I got into the boot and I sort of
almost like spooned her because I had to check for
her signs of life and all that sort of stuff,
and she was decomposing. She was pretty bad, and she'd
been in the hot February sun in the boot for
four days, so, you know, she was pretty bad, but
we believe she was dead. But when I checked her
signs of life there was nothing. But just on a
(19:36):
bit of a whim, I sort of maneuvered myself and
I found and I put my head near her chest
and I saw a chest move up and down. It
was amazing, and I just yelled at the top of
my boys. She's alive. She's alive. But she never regained consciousness.
She never left hospital. She was in hospital for six months.
(19:58):
But on the day that she of her funeral, Joe
ended his life. Tanya became a prosecution witness, and you know,
in a way, I sort of felt a little bit
sorry for Tenure because really, whether she's looking for a
threesome or it doesn't really matter. She was looking for
somebody to love. She we all want to be loved.
Speaker 1 (20:23):
What comes out of all these stories is that you
go into situations with such an open mind. You don't
seem like a judgmental person at all, unless there're a
stop sign. I'm pretty judgmental, but I think that's really
wonderful to hear, because you know, for someone like me
or a lot of people in my community, we can
be quite uncomfortable around the police force.
Speaker 2 (20:46):
So that makes me feel sad. But it's a reality,
isn't it.
Speaker 1 (20:49):
It is. That's why it's really wonderful to hear these stories.
I'm so grateful that you've come and shared them with
me today. It's very nice of you. Are there any
funny things that happened why you're a detective and he's
I don't know any strange any strange cases, silly ones.
I don't know. There's a gimby some goths. I want
some goths.
Speaker 2 (21:09):
There's some lots of silly ones, you know. I've actually
arrested a drug crazed armed Robert who was off his face.
I had no police uniform on, I didn't have a gun,
I didn't have a police radio. Just one of those
typical let's snick down the street and get some lunch.
(21:30):
I'm down there getting the lunch with a colleague. He
sees this drug crazed arm Robert. We've been looking for
for ages and this guy's held up a tab with
a sawn off shoddy and m colleague goes, that's him.
The phrase they used to call me phrase, that's him
over there. And we're in a car in a like
his little nineteen seventy one bright orange glant m colleague
(21:54):
drives up next to him, and of course I'm the passenger,
so I'm next to this because he's driving a car
as well. It's a stolen car, right, and I don't
know what to do, so I wind down the window.
I've got nothing right and I wonder and you know
what I do with my finger, I go, please get
out of the car now. And you know what he did,
(22:18):
gets better he gets, he gets out of.
Speaker 1 (22:20):
The car, finger out him and you know what he says.
Speaker 2 (22:24):
He puts his hands in the air and he said,
don't shoot.
Speaker 1 (22:30):
You like I will use his finger whipping no wheel.
I'm good at poking that.
Speaker 2 (22:35):
That is how off his face he was on drugs.
Speaker 1 (22:38):
Oh my goodness. Takes a bit of imagination and you're
going to go. My first of a job was working
at KFCs at the front counter, and on a Saturday night,
every now and then mum would come in and get
the dinner for the family and order it from me.
So she's waiting in line and this like crazy guy
jumps the counter and starts threatening all of ours and
she's watching, you know, little of me behind the counter airing.
(23:00):
Mom steps out and goes, I'm an off judy. Police
women looking for you. We know exactly who you are.
And he runs up and bolt tested hilarious and then
everyone's like, oh my god, your mum's an off juny.
But she's a police officer. We didn't even know. And
I was like, she's not. It's clear that I have,
(23:25):
you know, a detective in my blood because of my mum.
So I think I have what it takes to be detective.
Speaker 2 (23:30):
So I would love to academy.
Speaker 1 (23:33):
Well, I want to see if you can give me
a scenario to test my detective skills so that you
can do.
Speaker 2 (23:38):
That, I'll do my best. Okay, all right, okay, I
have about this. You go to a house and there's
a person that's dead next to the refrigerator. Oh, there's
a pool of water next to them. They don't have
any injuries, they don't nothing, they haven't taken any pills,
(24:00):
they find nothing in the autopsy. Nothing. How has that
person died?
Speaker 1 (24:08):
They have no injuries, Nope, And the piol of blood around.
Speaker 2 (24:12):
Them, no, no water, just a little bit of water.
Speaker 1 (24:15):
Just a little bit. They choked a nice cube.
Speaker 2 (24:20):
I'm going home.
Speaker 1 (24:26):
I only know that because everyone always, everyone always says, like,
all the perfect murder weapon is like a shot of ice. Yeah,
because it right.
Speaker 2 (24:34):
Yeah. But also, do you know the best way I
shouldn't say this, but do you know the best way
to get rid of a dead body? If you ever
want to If you ever want to kill someone and
you don't know how to get rid of them, you
feed it to a pig. Pigs eat everything.
Speaker 1 (24:47):
I've heard stories of it, or like, at least rumors
that that's happened.
Speaker 2 (24:50):
You know, I believe I haven't been to a body where.
Speaker 1 (24:54):
Because you wouldn't find it, won't you.
Speaker 2 (24:56):
Well, that's true. You are required to be. You're a
detective in the motion.
Speaker 1 (25:03):
I know a pig when I see one, you look
at it one? Well, I just called a four police
detective a pig. How's your day going? Well? At least
(25:24):
I know I'll be able to join them with my
exclusive skill set. Bring it old drag, detective. You've been
listening to an iHeart Australia production concealed with artsimone. If
you want to check out these two piggies, head on
over to the Socials
Hello. I'm art Simone, and there's nothing in this world
I can't do facts. So after becoming the country's most
gorgeous and beloved drag queen, I decided the most natural
next step was becoming a sassy sleuth, uncovering the deep,
dark and dirty secrets that everyday people are keeping concealed. Okay,
well not all of them are dirty, but we are
(00:29):
definitely finding the most interesting people, even though sometimes they
look pretty boring. Ill this is concealed with me arts
Simone told to meet our guest rather the tab.
Speaker 2 (00:43):
Hi. My name's Norelle. I'm sixty four. I live in
a small community in regional Victoria. I love the outdoors.
I think I love the peace and the quiet and
the tranquility more than anything. I like to spend time
on my property. Got a new little mini tractor in
a little chainsaw, and I have a lot of fun
with that. I just love being outdoors and I am
(01:06):
a huge advocate of mental health.
Speaker 1 (01:14):
So love to have you here with me today in
the studio. You're looking gorgeous. You've got beautiful polka dots
and nice blouse on there. That's nice. I love that
I've got a hairback. It a very smart professional with
it in a crocodile clip at the back. That's very good.
Speaker 2 (01:29):
Well, actually there's been a lot of rain. Oh and
I know that you would appreciate this rain with my hair.
Speaker 1 (01:36):
That's true, it's not good. What about so wigs you,
I don't have to worry. I'll just pro take mine
off and put it in a bag and then I can.
I don't get affected by any of the rain or
the humidity. It's very handy.
Speaker 2 (01:49):
You gotta say you look gorgeous.
Speaker 1 (01:50):
Thank you, Thank you very much. I'll stop it with
flirting here today. Oh all right, Narrell ask me how
is he trying to butter me up? But I have
to do some work here today, okay, because I have
to work out what it is you're concealing from me.
All right, so from regional Vick, you have to tell
me where you are.
Speaker 2 (02:05):
From Upney, Rochester.
Speaker 1 (02:07):
Oh, yes, stunning. You love the outdoors and mini tractor?
What is a mini tractor? Just a car? No?
Speaker 2 (02:15):
No, it's an actual tractor. You know. You can pick
up dirt and.
Speaker 1 (02:19):
Oh, rush rush and a bobcat yes, something like that.
Speaker 2 (02:23):
Yeah. Yeah, it's very loud, but it's fun.
Speaker 1 (02:27):
So what I'm getting from this is you just like
your piece and quiet, no one around me, just me
and my mini chainsaw with not a care in the world.
Speaker 2 (02:36):
Yeah, pretty much. Okay, and my husband. Don't forget him.
We can't forget him. We we can't.
Speaker 1 (02:42):
Oh okay, okay, okay. What's hubby's name?
Speaker 2 (02:46):
Lloyd?
Speaker 1 (02:47):
Lloyd? All right, okay, Lloyd can stay as well. That's fine,
thank you. Okay. So I'm going to ask you three questions. Yes,
and from the answers to those three questions, I'm going
to try and work out what it is you're concealing
from me. Are you ready?
Speaker 2 (03:03):
I am ready?
Speaker 1 (03:04):
Okay. Question number one, what game show would you choose
to go on?
Speaker 2 (03:10):
Deal or No Deal?
Speaker 1 (03:12):
Oh? Alright, alright, bit of money play?
Speaker 2 (03:16):
Actually, can I tell you why I go on Deal
or No Because I think I'd be good at opening
and closing cases?
Speaker 1 (03:27):
Oh okay. Question number two, if you had to pick
a slang word to use every day, what would it be?
Speaker 2 (03:35):
Clean skin?
Speaker 1 (03:37):
Clean skin? What? What is that is that a slang word?
Speaker 2 (03:45):
What to a word? Clean skin?
Speaker 1 (03:48):
Clean skin? Red? Okay, clean skin? And final question, if
you were involved in an intricate bank heist? What role
would you play.
Speaker 2 (04:00):
I wouldn't play any particular role. I'd more likely be
the person on the other side foiling their plans.
Speaker 1 (04:12):
Oh, so you're not gonna work all right, okay, foiling plans? Okay,
So let me put together what you've served for me
today morel okay. So we got deal and no your
cases all right, foiling plans okay, and clean skin. So
(04:32):
we're kind of in the world of bank robberies and
and hests and ooh crime okay, and mini tractors. Got
to put that in there as well, okayaw And the change?
Are you a professional safe cracker person? Was that? You
(04:53):
know when they break into saves? Say code crack? What
is it?
Speaker 2 (04:56):
Call? No? No, I'll make it easy for you, an.
Speaker 1 (05:06):
I have a locksmith.
Speaker 2 (05:15):
Hi. I'm Noel Fraser. I worked with Victoria Police for
twenty seven years. I spent fifteen of those years working
as a detective. I worked in many different squads, including homicide,
missing persons, child exploitation. I've worked on some of the
state's most high profile cases and years. I've seen a
lot in my job, and that led to my retirement
(05:36):
and fueled my passion. I suppose as a mental health advocate,
which is how I spend my days.
Speaker 1 (05:42):
Now, sonrel isn't a safe cracker or a locksmith. She
is a former detective. Oh my goodness, well, at least
you're about to give me the contact details for a
good safe crack of Then Norella is going to speak
(06:10):
about some confronting themes around death, which some might find upsetting.
If you think you need to sit this one out,
no hard feelings, go back and listen to any one
of the incredible podcast episodes I have ready for you
in the feed. We're here with NoREL and I've just
found out that you were not, in fact a safe cracker,
(06:30):
no or locksmiths. No, No, you were a former detective
who has worked on some of the States' most notorious cases. Yes,
I feel like I have to behave differently now around you.
Speaker 2 (06:41):
I feel and you know what, That's why I don't
tell people you can't that funny year, because people exactly
like you say, yeah, people get all nervous.
Speaker 1 (06:49):
What's the same thing when you see a police car
drive past you and even if you're not doing anything,
you're not spinning, You're like everyone slows down to thirty
kilometers an hour on the freeway and they're like, no, no,
I know what do you excuse me?
Speaker 2 (07:00):
Excuse me?
Speaker 1 (07:01):
Well, is that a bit of stigma you've had to
face a whole your whole life working in the force.
Speaker 2 (07:06):
Yeah, there is a bit of stigma, but you you
understand people have a bit of a what would you
call it a fascination I suppose with detectives and police.
But yeah, but it's to be honest, I feel very
proud of what I did, and yeah, I don't hide
from it. I used to do a bit.
Speaker 1 (07:27):
So how did you get into the police and work
to go into being a detective? Like, how did that
journey happen?
Speaker 2 (07:32):
I was a secretary for a long time, and I
became a counselor with Lifeline because I'd always been interested
in people and you know, maybe trying to help people
that maybe weren't as fortunate as I had been in
my upbringing. And so when I went too Lifeline, the
number of people that rang Lifeline to say I'm going
(07:54):
to you know, oh, I can't do this anymore. And
I thought, how can I get to people before they
ring Lifeline so that I could help them in some way?
And so that's when I thought about policing. And you know,
I was twenty seven. I traveled Australia in a combie.
I had a ball and I thought I'd seen I
(08:15):
thought I knew a fair bit about life.
Speaker 1 (08:18):
So you go into the police force, Then how do
you move up into detective work?
Speaker 2 (08:24):
Well, I had to study, I had to go to
detective training school. But I felt like the detectives. As
a detective, the investigations are so much more challenging. They're
very intense, and I just sort of felt it was
like a bee to a honeypot. The worse the job
(08:45):
was as in, the more traumatic it was, I just
felt I had the right sort of personality. I just
wanted to be there. And that's why I ended up
going into the squads. So homicide, missing persons, because that
is you know, that's the from a police point of view.
You know, that's the kream Dela Creme, and I just
(09:07):
loved it.
Speaker 1 (09:08):
So, you know, you speak of how you enjoyed a
lot of the people work. What skill set do you
think makes a good detective.
Speaker 2 (09:18):
I think you've got to be a very good communicator.
I think you need to be very empathetic, very understanding,
but also very passionate and not leave a stone unturned.
People think that you've got to be a good talker,
for instance, to be a detective, to get people to
(09:39):
open up to you right and tell you what's happened
in their worst possible time of their life. A good
detective needs to be able to listen. Your interviewing skills
and you learn that at detective training school about interviewing
skills and how to get people to open up to
you and feel more comfortable.
Speaker 1 (09:59):
Do you think you know, after being in that line
of work for so long, do you think you have
a very good human lighte detector? Do you think you're
really good at that? Is?
Speaker 2 (10:12):
Absolutely? It's a yes. I mean yeah, you know there's
another skill in knowing somebody's lying. Yes, And you think
how long am I going to let them hang themselves
for until I say I know you've done it?
Speaker 1 (10:26):
Does good cop bad cop? Exist? Is that? Ah? What's
your favorite role to play? A good cop or bad cop?
Speaker 2 (10:34):
Oh? My favorite would be a good cop because that's
what I'm better at.
Speaker 1 (10:38):
Yeah, I reckon you've got a bad cop side.
Speaker 2 (10:41):
Hey, don't worry, I've got a bad cop. In fact,
I can remember one guy who I knew had done
this crime. He'd actually murdered his wife and I knew
he had and he was telling me all this pardon
me bullshit, and I remember I shouldn't have and I
remember poking him in the chest and I said, I
know you've fucking done this, and I'm going to get
(11:03):
you if it's a last thing I do. And you
know what I didn't. I never got it. Yeah, damn it.
Speaker 1 (11:15):
So what would the day to day life of a
detective look like like? Would you be assigned a case
and then that's what you're focused on for the next
ll till it's done, or are you getting a new
one every day? Go oh well, I'm sorry about that one.
We're doing this one.
Speaker 2 (11:29):
There's no normal day as a detective because you can
go into work. Let's say you start at seven, and
sometimes you can go in there and they go, we've
got a warrant. We're going to a round of this address. Quick,
get your gun, get everything, we're going, and then it's
just go, go go, because you can go to i know,
let's say, a warrant, and then you find other offenses
(11:50):
that have occurred, and you've got to go and grab
somebody else, grab a crook. We call them crooks. But
there's no day to day. But you can go in
with into the office with visions, oh I'm going to
do this job today, like this investigation, and it can
all pardon me, just turn to shit the minute you
walk in. Yeah, there is no day the same. There's
very few days where you can just have a bit
(12:13):
of time out because what happens is you might come
back from that warrant and want to go home like I. No,
let's say it's five or six o'clock at night and no,
let's say a rape comes in. You can't go home.
So you've got to then go to that job, and
you come in the next morning and you've got to
go to court, or you come in the next morning
and something else is going on. It is it's relentless,
(12:35):
to be honest.
Speaker 1 (12:36):
Does that make work home life balance really difficult? Yes,
because even you know, on my own experience, I'm doing
nothing similar to you, but I struggle because there's no
definitive end to things. It's like, well, we'll do the
next thing, do the next thing. Ye, So how does
that work for someone like you?
Speaker 2 (12:56):
Well, it's exactly the same. You've got to be very
mindful of it. And what I found was I found
that I loved going out, let's say, with my girlfriends
for a dream core from dinner or something because they
would talk about this sounds wrong, but the mundane stuff.
You know, they couldn't get a park outside the kinder
somebody's you know, I had one of the kids is
(13:19):
had diarrhea overnight. All they've been It's good to have
your feet on the ground and know that it's not
normal to talk about death messages, to talk about sexual assault,
it's not normal. So you've got I found that by
keeping the friends that I grew up with that weren't police.
I found that a really good grounding, kind.
Speaker 1 (13:40):
Of like a touchstone there for you to go back
in and be like, yeah, oh, real people exist because
you're getting the real extreme ends of people, the highest
type of emotion and experience and everything. So I'm going
to understand how that's is everyone like this? Yes, So
you said you've worked on some high profile cases. What
(14:03):
are some of the cases you've solved that you can
talk about.
Speaker 2 (14:05):
And well, I can talk about them because they've been solved.
There's either a person in jail or. They've all been
through the courts. So there's nothing that I can't talk
that I'm going to tell you about. But I just
want to take you back there. It's not ones that
I have solved. I have been involved in solving them,
(14:26):
because the ones I was going to tell you about
were say ones at the squads. They're the Really they're
a big, high profile jobs where everyone's you notice I
say jobs, We say that all the time. They're investigations, right,
should call them gigs? Oh no, you can't call them gigs.
Speaker 1 (14:42):
Can't do a gig?
Speaker 2 (14:43):
Do I do that? I feel a bit of a
dickcare talk talking about I've got a gig here.
Speaker 1 (14:49):
Love it. I think we can trade lingo pollinating. I
like it.
Speaker 2 (14:54):
But yet, yes, so a couple of jobs whenever there's
a child involved. And I don't want to bring this down,
but it's reality. Anything that involves a child just takes
an investigation to another level. And you can't walk away
from jobs that have been involved with a child, let's
say child abuse or child exploitation or a child being killed.
(15:20):
You know, they are really tough jobs. And one of
the ones that I worked on was Anna and Gracie Sharp.
It was called the Mornington Monster and John Sharp. They
lived in Mornington. They'd had little Gracie and as pregnant
with their second child, and John's just had enough of her.
He kills her, puts her in a rubbish bag and
(15:42):
throws her out in the rubbish that you do like
peeling your potatoes. Then a couple of days later he
kills a little girl. And I won't go into that,
but he kills a little girl, the little seventeen month old,
because he thinks that she needs to be with her mum.
But he also throws her out in the rubbish in
(16:02):
a bag, like in a rubbish bag. I found. We
found out that they are at a tip. Yes, and
I found I did. I found Anna in a bag
at a tip. I've never ever had to search so
(16:22):
many blue sports bags in my life. But on the
tenth day I found her. And to be honest, I
felt this real sound bizarre, but I felt almost euphoric
initially because I just felt, thank God, this poor woman
isn't going to end her life in a filthy, rat infested,
(16:46):
asbestos ridden tip. And so that was initially it was like,
thank goodness, I've found her. She's now over. She's been
buried over with her mum in New Zealand, and little
Gracie was found a couple of days later. I think
I was saved. Finding Anna was very traumatic, but I
(17:09):
don't think I could well, I know I couldn't have
dealt with finding little Gracie. The boys that I worked
with they found her. I must have had court or
something this particular day. But I feel I was saved
because I couldn't have dealt with that anyway. So there's
you know, jobs like that. And to listen to John Sharp,
who is now doing thirty three years, I think it
(17:30):
is for the two murders. He eventually confessed. But to
hear John Sharp talk about how he had killed Anna
and Gracie, it was like he killed an ant on
the footpath.
Speaker 1 (17:42):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (17:43):
No, he just he had the personality of a stop sign,
you know, like he he just sorry. It's just such
a good description, isn't it. But he did there was
he just was. He had nothing. He was just a nudy,
pathetic man. Anyway, So there was that one I found
(18:06):
Maria Corp. I found Maria in a boot up. We
as in the team when we found the car and
she'd been strangled by it. This is a little bit saucy,
but Maria Corp had been married to Joe. She thought
very happily, but Joe was very very frustrated with their
(18:26):
sex life. Thought it needed a bit of but yes, yes,
spicing up perfect. So he says to Maria, let's go
on a dating site for threesomes. So they find a threesome.
They find a lady Tanya, who wants to get involved.
Her and Joe together murdered Maria. Joe got organized at all,
(18:52):
and Tanya is the one that actually strangled her. She
believed that she was dead, and she put her in
the boot of the car and drove her to just
out in the CBD and we did a media release.
We found the car, and we found Maria in the boot,
and for all intents and purposes, we thought she was dead.
But somebody had to get in and check that she was.
(19:15):
So I got into the boot and I sort of
almost like spooned her because I had to check for
her signs of life and all that sort of stuff,
and she was decomposing. She was pretty bad, and she'd
been in the hot February sun in the boot for
four days, so, you know, she was pretty bad, but
we believe she was dead. But when I checked her
signs of life there was nothing. But just on a
(19:36):
bit of a whim, I sort of maneuvered myself and
I found and I put my head near her chest
and I saw a chest move up and down. It
was amazing, and I just yelled at the top of
my boys. She's alive. She's alive. But she never regained consciousness.
She never left hospital. She was in hospital for six months.
(19:58):
But on the day that she of her funeral, Joe
ended his life. Tanya became a prosecution witness, and you know,
in a way, I sort of felt a little bit
sorry for Tenure because really, whether she's looking for a
threesome or it doesn't really matter. She was looking for
somebody to love. She we all want to be loved.
Speaker 1 (20:23):
What comes out of all these stories is that you
go into situations with such an open mind. You don't
seem like a judgmental person at all, unless there're a
stop sign. I'm pretty judgmental, but I think that's really
wonderful to hear, because you know, for someone like me
or a lot of people in my community, we can
be quite uncomfortable around the police force.
Speaker 2 (20:46):
So that makes me feel sad. But it's a reality,
isn't it.
Speaker 1 (20:49):
It is. That's why it's really wonderful to hear these stories.
I'm so grateful that you've come and shared them with
me today. It's very nice of you. Are there any
funny things that happened why you're a detective and he's
I don't know any strange any strange cases, silly ones.
I don't know. There's a gimby some goths. I want
some goths.
Speaker 2 (21:09):
There's some lots of silly ones, you know. I've actually
arrested a drug crazed armed Robert who was off his face.
I had no police uniform on, I didn't have a gun,
I didn't have a police radio. Just one of those
typical let's snick down the street and get some lunch.
(21:30):
I'm down there getting the lunch with a colleague. He
sees this drug crazed arm Robert. We've been looking for
for ages and this guy's held up a tab with
a sawn off shoddy and m colleague goes, that's him.
The phrase they used to call me phrase, that's him
over there. And we're in a car in a like
his little nineteen seventy one bright orange glant m colleague
(21:54):
drives up next to him, and of course I'm the passenger,
so I'm next to this because he's driving a car
as well. It's a stolen car, right, and I don't
know what to do, so I wind down the window.
I've got nothing right and I wonder and you know
what I do with my finger, I go, please get
out of the car now. And you know what he did,
(22:18):
gets better he gets, he gets out of.
Speaker 1 (22:20):
The car, finger out him and you know what he says.
Speaker 2 (22:24):
He puts his hands in the air and he said,
don't shoot.
Speaker 1 (22:30):
You like I will use his finger whipping no wheel.
I'm good at poking that.
Speaker 2 (22:35):
That is how off his face he was on drugs.
Speaker 1 (22:38):
Oh my goodness. Takes a bit of imagination and you're
going to go. My first of a job was working
at KFCs at the front counter, and on a Saturday night,
every now and then mum would come in and get
the dinner for the family and order it from me.
So she's waiting in line and this like crazy guy
jumps the counter and starts threatening all of ours and
she's watching, you know, little of me behind the counter airing.
(23:00):
Mom steps out and goes, I'm an off judy. Police
women looking for you. We know exactly who you are.
And he runs up and bolt tested hilarious and then
everyone's like, oh my god, your mum's an off juny.
But she's a police officer. We didn't even know. And
I was like, she's not. It's clear that I have,
(23:25):
you know, a detective in my blood because of my mum.
So I think I have what it takes to be detective.
Speaker 2 (23:30):
So I would love to academy.
Speaker 1 (23:33):
Well, I want to see if you can give me
a scenario to test my detective skills so that you
can do.
Speaker 2 (23:38):
That, I'll do my best. Okay, all right, okay, I
have about this. You go to a house and there's
a person that's dead next to the refrigerator. Oh, there's
a pool of water next to them. They don't have
any injuries, they don't nothing, they haven't taken any pills,
(24:00):
they find nothing in the autopsy. Nothing. How has that
person died?
Speaker 1 (24:08):
They have no injuries, Nope, And the piol of blood around.
Speaker 2 (24:12):
Them, no, no water, just a little bit of water.
Speaker 1 (24:15):
Just a little bit. They choked a nice cube.
Speaker 2 (24:20):
I'm going home.
Speaker 1 (24:26):
I only know that because everyone always, everyone always says, like,
all the perfect murder weapon is like a shot of ice. Yeah,
because it right.
Speaker 2 (24:34):
Yeah. But also, do you know the best way I
shouldn't say this, but do you know the best way
to get rid of a dead body? If you ever
want to If you ever want to kill someone and
you don't know how to get rid of them, you
feed it to a pig. Pigs eat everything.
Speaker 1 (24:47):
I've heard stories of it, or like, at least rumors
that that's happened.
Speaker 2 (24:50):
You know, I believe I haven't been to a body where.
Speaker 1 (24:54):
Because you wouldn't find it, won't you.
Speaker 2 (24:56):
Well, that's true. You are required to be. You're a
detective in the motion.
Speaker 1 (25:03):
I know a pig when I see one, you look
at it one? Well, I just called a four police
detective a pig. How's your day going? Well? At least
(25:24):
I know I'll be able to join them with my
exclusive skill set. Bring it old drag, detective. You've been
listening to an iHeart Australia production concealed with artsimone. If
you want to check out these two piggies, head on
over to the Socials
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