September 2, 2025 • 60 mins
From a young age, Jenifer Massie was immersed in a culture of service, beginning with volunteering in her school’s “gramps and grannies” program and extending to caring for her own family members. Her caregiving roles evolved over the years, from supporting her grandmother and great aunt to becoming a “sandwich caregiver” while raising her own children. Jenifer’s approach to caregiving was shaped by her family’s tradition of stepping in where needed, often without formal discussions, and by her deep sense of gratitude and responsibility.
A pivotal chapter in Jenifer’s journey came when her oldest brother was diagnosed with stage four lung cancer, and she became part of his care team. This period was marked by emotional vulnerability, profound family connection, and ultimately, her own diagnosis with colorectal cancer just weeks before her brother’s passing. Experiencing both sides of care—giving and receiving—transformed Jenifer’s perspective, teaching her the importance of self-advocacy, setting boundaries, and embracing vulnerability. Her faith played a central role in her healing and resilience, guiding her through the most challenging moments. Today, Jenifer channels her experiences into her professional work, supporting other caregivers and advocating for resources, self-care, and open family communication. Her story is a reminder of the strength found in community, the necessity of self-care, and the enduring impact of compassion.
About Jenifer:
Jenifer Alty Massie, Regional Director BrightStar Care, is a dedicated advocate for compassionate care and community support. A Lynchburg native, she deeply values the strong sense of connection between caregivers, clients, and staff.
Before dedicating herself to raising three children, Jenifer worked as a counselor for runaway and at-risk youth, providing guidance and support during critical times. Over the years, she has also cared for aging and terminally ill family members, gaining firsthand experience in the importance of quality home care.
In 2021, Jenifer was diagnosed with colorectal cancer, an experience that gave her a profound understanding of the impact exceptional home care can have during times of pain and uncertainty. She believes that the relationships between clients, caregivers, and nurses can provide comfort and stability when it is needed most.
Thank you to our sponsor: CareScout
Confessions of a Reluctant Caregiver
Sisterhood of Care, LLC
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Unknown (00:03):
Hey guys, it's your favorite sisters with the
Confessions of a reluctantcaregiver. Podcast. On the show,
you'll hear caregiversconfessing the good, the bad and
the completely unexpected.
You're guaranteed to relate, beinspired. Lead with helpful tips
and resources, and, of course,laugh. Now let's get to today's
confession.
(00:29):
Hey, Jay, good morning, goodmorning, good morning.
Why are you trying to escape mysong? All right, fine, you can
sing it you will mainly becauseyou over Sing me like your voice
is more and so it makes me beable to sing, and no one can
hear my voice. Well, that'sreally bad. I have a slight
(00:49):
problem right here. I hold onjust a second.
You know, we never do this inthe podcast, but a Scott
neutered, and a Scott just camein my office, and so hold on,
we're on pause. We will pausethis. Hold on,
(01:09):
that was a pause. Hold on. Wehave rare emergencies. We're
like, that's gotta go. Good job.
Medley, okay, you want to startover again. No reason, no reason
not to just keep on going. Allright, so, so, yeah, slight
interruption, dog got in theway, and now we're back. So,
okay, Jay, good morning. How areyou doing? You know, I'm
delightful, and I'm so glad thatyou and I got our like, we're
(01:31):
like, sort of summer, but we're,we're moving into fall. We're
solids. Lime, we are solid.
We're solid, and we're solid.
That's yeah. And Jenniferbrought our colors together, our
guest today, you know, she saidshe's got a little blue, she's
got some green. Yeah, I lovethat. Hey, you know you want to
tell us? You want me to tell youabout Jennifer, because now it's
(01:52):
not about my dog or him gettingneutered in his cone. If you
want to see how cute he was,he's on the YouTube channel.
We're going to make sure. Whynot leave him in there? Because,
you know what? It's cheaper notto edit. All right, so
Jennifer, today, I'm honored tointroduce you to Jennifer
(02:13):
Massey. She says serving othershas always been part of who she
is, and that caregiving camenaturally from volunteering in
high school to gramps andgrannies, which I love, where
she was paired with seniors innative companionship, to
College, where she worked at arunaway shelter. She's played
multiple roles in caregiving.
I'm not telling the whole story.
Natalie said, don't say, okay,okay, Jennifer's gotta help him
(02:36):
talk about something I know. Soshe helped care for her
grandmother, supporting a greataunt and her husband's uncle
while raising three children,and now, as her parents age, she
has become part of their careteam. When her oldest brother,
though, was diagnosed with stagefour lung cancer, she helped
care for him until just weeksbefore his passing, she was
(02:56):
diagnosed with colorectalcancer. So this is a season of
life she calls the painful gift,and it was a time of what she
says, deep surrender, growth andcloseness with God. Through
pain, she found profoundgratitude. And I love that. That
is a quote like I could write onmy wall. Jennifer, so thank you
so much for being here with ustoday. We are we are ready for
(03:20):
you to get talking. Yeah, I'mexcited to be here. Thank you.
Thank you Well, and this isfantastic. So I had the
opportunity to be on a panelwith Jennifer. That's how we
met. Jennifer lives here insunny Virginia with with me,
because all the cool kids livein Virginia, and we were on a
panel talking about caregiving.
And Jennifer, you work in thefield in supporting individuals,
(03:43):
but you have direct experienceyourself being a unpaid family
caregiver. And so why don't wekind of start from the beginning
and talk a little give us alittle background about your
family and growing up and howkind of lead us into care.
Because it sounds like you werea youth caregiver. It started
(04:05):
really early. The attitude ofservice started early. Yeah. So
fortunately, I was able toattend a school that put a big
emphasis on service, and so partof what was offered was
different opportunities to giveback to our community. And one
of those, I think, actually,when I started thinking back on
(04:28):
it was middle school, when theyoffered this gramps and
grannies, which was a reallycool idea, where our
administrators reached out andmet people in the community that
were in walking distance to ourschool, and so once a week, we
would be partnered with a seniorwho was probably aging solo, and
we'd go down and just spend sometime with them. I'm not sure you
(04:53):
could get away with that in thisday and age. However, then it
was and I do think.
And it planted a seed. There wasdefinitely a mutual it was, you
know, good for me and good forthem.
As I aged through that school.
There was another opportunity tocare for medical community up
the street to also longer walk,but walking distance to care for
(05:18):
physicians and nurses childrenwhile they were like to help out
in the daycare that was adjacentto the hospital. And so I would
do that as well. And thatsparked something in me too,
being around that kind of energyand just filled my heart, but it
for a personal story of myfamily, my grandmother, my
(05:42):
family. I'm the only one bornand raised in Virginia, in
Lynchburg. All my family wasfrom up north. My father was an
only child, and his mother agedall the way up until her 80s, up
in Massachusetts. So the timecame where my parents were now
my age, late, later, 50s, and mygrandmother needed to be moved.
(06:04):
She had had several falls, andthe time came where there was
just no other support for her,her her friend group, you know,
had passed away, and hercommunity was getting smaller,
and her support system wasgetting smaller up
Massachusetts, so the time cameto move her. Well, at that
point, I was living in Raleigh.
My parents had a place inRaleigh, and they found an
(06:25):
assisted living for her. Myparents labs were very busy at
that time, and I was takingclasses in NC State, and so I
would fill those gaps and bepart of my grandmother's care
team. And I remember taking abreak, one of my breaks from
school to fly up. My grandmotherwas hospitalized, and then so my
oldest brother made thearrangements. He was in med
school at the time, and made thearrangements for me. And I look
(06:48):
back on this, and it is kind ofshocking how it you know, just,
we just all do what we have todo, right? And so I went up and
cared for my my grandmotherwhile she was in the hospital,
and then the decision was madeto move her to Raleigh, and so I
helped care for her. My parentshad a place in Virginia and in
North Carolina, and I would bewhen they were traveling between
(07:11):
the two places. I was thebackup. Oh, you were back. I
care. I was back up, but yeah,but sometimes I was forefront
well, and I was getting ready tosay, so you were in you were you
said you were in college, youwere in your early 20s, then,
I'm assuming, and yes, or lateteens, early 20s, when this
happened, and you are truly itsounds like you started we talk
(07:34):
about youth caregivers. And Ithink there's right at the
American Association ofcaregiving youth talks about
there being about 5.7 millioncaregiving youth in United
States, and most of these youthlike yourself. I mean, you did
volunteer work, but then yousounds like you had a family
that I had a culture of care. Itwas just something that was done
(07:54):
from generation to generation.
Would you say that's true? Yes,very much. So my mother was one
of five, six children. A sisterhad passed away early, and she
there's a huge age differencebetween her and her two younger
brothers. And so she was raised,you know, helping care for for
her siblings. And I think that,you know, it just does get
(08:16):
passed down naturally. Yeah. Soyou mentioned, oh, good, no, so
you mentioned an older brother.
Natalie always asked us, whereare you in the birth order? How
many siblings and where are you?
So I have three older brothers.
Okay, so I am the baby girl offour. Oh,
very protect. Very interesting.
(08:39):
Protected, later, protected,protected, later in life, but I
would say earlier, it made mescrappy. Oh, that's good.
She was changing tires. She waspicking up toads, riding dirt
bikes, yeah, whatever it took tobe part of the group. Oh, she's
resilient. I know she is. She'sbouncing back. So let me ask you
(09:02):
this. You've got those careexperiences, but during this
time, so I know that you you'remarried, you have three children
along this path. Tell me howthat interjects with where does
that bounce into all this lifehere? So I met my husband in
high school,so he's my high school
sweetheart. I love that. Yeah,we love a love story. We're not
gonna lie to your mom and dadwere high school sweethearts.
(09:24):
Yeah, yeah. So we met at 16 and17, and, you know, took that
little hiatus that you have totake when you go off to college.
I'm a year ahead of him inschool. And so we did take a
little hiatus there, but foundour way back, another one of
those threads that God had putus in the right place at the
right time, but always stayedconnected so then we ended up
(09:46):
dating for eight years prior togetting married.
Got married, and we're on year32 Oh, wow.
So, so you have, so you've,you've cared for I want to, I
want to kind of bring us uphere, you apart. I'm glad that
(10:07):
you say because you can tell youyou work in the industry,
because most people would notsay this when you said, I was a
part of the care team and and Ithink that's important, because
this is the first step to reallyidentifying as part of being a
caregiver and understanding yourrole in that team. We always
talk about the importance ofhaving a team. And I think you
(10:30):
know, my question for you wouldbe, how did your parents and I
want to go back to that a littlebit. How did your parents have
that? Did your family have thisconversation about, we're moving
your grandmother down to thehome, down to live close by.
This is how we're going to doit. This is, do you know, do you
and your brothers have this? Isit a family meeting, or is it
(10:51):
this is what's going to happen,and everybody's going to jump in
where needed. And if askedvolunteer kind of thing, well, I
will say it's, you know, in thatsituation, I'm giving you a 20
year old, 21 year oldsperspective. Oh, yeah. So I'm
sure there were conversationsthat I was not a part of,
(11:11):
especially on my mother's part,because it really the burden
was, you know, was on her, andshe was a full time my mom
worked full time as well as mydad and my brother. By that
point, my brother was practice.
He said he was a generalsurgeon, and he was practicing
at that point. So I'm sure therewere discussions as the baby,
right? You know, I you don'tever lose that. I'm sure there
(11:34):
were discussions I just was notpart of them. Yeah, yeah. So you
were just tagged in when needed,like, you just knew you were
gonna come help, because thatjust seemed like the right thing
to do. Yeah, and I thinkmy mother and I were very close,
and I saw the burden on her, soI think I stepped in to support,
which I, you know, being inthat, like you said, now that
(11:58):
I'm in the industry, and I dosee how easily caregivers can
get. You can lose yourself veryquickly and not even know it,
because you're you're goingthrough the motions as they're
unfolding. And for me, that wenton for many a year,
(12:19):
a long, time where I was and,and I was doing it out of a
place of gratitude, I mean, and,and, and it grew me, and I have
no resentment or in hindsight onit, but I, I would caution
people, you know, one of thethings you ask is, know thyself,
like really Spend some time. Ifyou're new to caregiving, it's a
(12:43):
great opportunity, if you'vebeen caregiving for years and
years, spend that time really toto center and figure out your
needs, because oftentimes we getinto this pattern and we don't
realize and for me, it took alife event to shake me shake it
up. Yeah, and do the refocus.
I'm gonna pause here because Iwant to transition into the next
(13:08):
episode. Because you again, likeso many caregivers, it's so
funny when we have we haveconversations with caregivers,
they don't typically just haveone episode of caregiving, or
they and one experience, andthen that's it. You're one and
done. It typically ends up beingsomething that they have
multiple episodes, and you'vedefinitely had that. And so
(13:30):
we're going to jump into thenext, next window of time where
you provide care. When we getright back
looking for care in all thewrong places. Try care scout.
Our care finder helps you locatelong term care providers in your
(13:51):
area who are committed toquality, person centered care
with care Scout, you can alsoorder a personalized care plan
created by a licensed nurse justfor you. So say goodbye to a
path to aging care that'snothing but confusing, and say
hello to a more dignifiedjourney, including providers who
see you as you and a plan forquality care you can feel good
(14:13):
about. Learn more at carescout.com
All right, everybody. We areback here with Jennifer Massey,
and we're talking about nextphase, because she's been care
team and she's been younger.
She's been caring while she wasin college, so as part of the
family team. So let's talk aboutnext phase, Jennifer, because I
(14:35):
know at one point you aresandwich caregiver. So what was
your what was the next step inthis care journey? So I think
the next would have been a greataunt. Once again, my father was
an only child, and this was hisuncle's his maternal uncle's
(14:55):
wife had no child.
Children. So he was pretty muchlike their child, and she and
her sister were both widowedback up in Massachusetts again
and needed to be cared for. Andit was causing a lot of
journeying back and forth frommy mother and my father on
(15:16):
occasion, but mostly on mymother to care for these two
ladies. And so they were able toget them in a assisted up there,
but one of them passed. She wasmy aunt, Irene, was brought back
to live with my parents inLynchburg. And at that time, my
husband and I had three just hadhad my third baby,
(15:40):
and we were living down thestreet from my parents. They had
a family farm, and we had builta home down the street from
them, and so I was part of myaunt Irene scare team, and she
was delightful. I mean, she wasone of these very easygoing
always had a smile on her faceno matter what life was. You
know,in she just one of the things
(16:01):
when I remember her is I alwaystry to smile, and my my face
doesn't tend to rest in a smile.
But she was one of these peoplewho it always rested with a
smile. And so I was part of hercare team, because my parents
were still traveling for workand also for pleasure. And so,
you know, I was now instillingin my children, because my
(16:22):
oldest at this point would havebeen around nine, my son was six
or seven, and then, you know, myyoungest
in, you know, up until when,when she passed, and she passed,
Mother's Day weekend, 2007six, something like that. So she
was, she was the the next personI had the pleasure of caring for
and being part of that to assistmy mother. Were you working at
(16:44):
the time? No, well,yes, I was raising our three
children, but my brother and mysister in law, my oldest
brother, who I keep referring toa lot, she was a professional,
and my brother, being aprofessional as well, both
wanted and needed to be working.
(17:05):
And so when my sister in law gotpregnant a year after, well, she
was pregnant during my husband'sand my wedding, they we moved
back because there was a deathin my husband's family. My
father in law passed. So wemoved back because he wanted to
be close to his brothers. I wasasked to care and help raise my
take care of him during the day,my nephew and so I got the play.
(17:29):
He was my first, my first babyin the sense that I got to spend
every day with him. So I gonefrom the runaway shelter where I
had worked in North Carolina,and I did a short stint in
social services down in NorthCarolina, but we moved back to
Lynchburg to be closer to familyafter my father in law passed.
You were a full time daycare.
Some were your some work, butthat's okay. You were a full
(17:49):
time when it doesn't actuallymatter. Yeah, it doesn't matter,
you know, if you, if you talk toespecially, you know, it's
almost like, and Jennifer,you've worked in foster care,
you know, and this is such acultural thing. It's just like,
I'll just bring them. What's onemore like? And so you just, he
doesn't really matter. Related,not related. But, you know, it's
interesting this, this cultureof care, is really built into
(18:11):
your DNA, and it started from ayoung age. It very much sounds
like and what you what wasmodeled to you. And I love that
you said I started modeling thatto my own children. So I want to
go back to your your great aunt,what are some of the tasks that
you were responsible for?
Because, if you're you'reraising your children. Because
(18:34):
this is we were literally justtalking to
a group. We were beinginterviewed about what it's like
to be a sandwich caregiver, andso let me ask you that question,
what's it like to be a sandwichcaregiver? Because you were a
sandwich caregiver, but you hadtwo different situations. You
had your great aunt and thenyour husband's uncle. Did those
(18:55):
feel different based on the agesof your children? Did it feel
different based on where you andyour husband were in life, and
professionally, tell me a littlebit about those two different
how the how that differentiated,and did you build on it? Those
experiences, definitely so. AndI say modeling, but also it,
modeling can come off aspositive, and I don't think
(19:18):
necessarily all that I wasemulating was positive, like, in
the sense of, you know, notputting my needs before others.
And at times, that's veryimportant. I'd say it's
important all the time, yeah, tomake sure that you're listening
to yourself. But So thedifference between the two would
be that my mother, very muchengaged with my great aunt, and
(19:43):
there were resources to be ableto have additional help. So it
was filling in when the care,when the additional help
couldn't come in. There was no,I don't recall ever like having
to do the personal care side,like the hands on care for.
Her. And like I said, she wasjust so delightful. I mean, it
(20:04):
really was more of companionshipand being present and making
sure that there were, we wereeyes and ears and available.
Should there be a call off? Theywere able to get her into a
really beautiful local CCRC herefor her, her final, her final
days, isn't I want to pause fora second. It's interesting that
(20:27):
you said she had resource, butwhich is such a big deal, and
you know this, it's such a bigdeal to be able to have that
financial resource. And solisteners who are out there, the
ability to plan for that iscritical, so that you are really
able to build your care team andreally not burn out any one or
two individual people. And Ithink those are things that I
(20:48):
wish that we had hadconversations about growing up.
But the other piece of it is youdon't downplay the fact that you
were a caregiver for her bysaying, Well, I was just doing
companionship. I was just justthe word just comes, I can come
out of a lot of people's mouths,and that's why I think a lot of
people don't self identify ascaregivers, because they're
like, Don't undervalue theimpact that you're having on be,
(21:13):
on being present with being acompanion. Yeah, I think I was
holding space for my mother andmy father, and it's important.
It's important, you know, themore you can have your bench go
out, yeah, and have that for theripples,
for people to be able to stepaway and do what's needed. I
(21:36):
love that. So tell me about thedifference then with your
husband's uncle, well, he wasthat one, you know, fell
naturally. We had moved. Myparents were spending more time
away, and my husband and Idecided to move into the city
because our children, yeah, wemoved from a farm to a city,
(21:57):
yeah, we went to the big city ofLynchburg, and
he ended up being right down thestreet from us, and he truly was
a dear friend of mine. I wouldvisit him weekly. He was very
pragmatic, great sense of humor.
He could tell me things thatanybody else could tell me, and
I could hear it the first time.
(22:18):
But So I began to see a decline,and I knew he wanted to age, and
he wanted to remain in his homethat was very, very important to
him in the conversations we had.
And then I noticed that therewere personal care needs that
neither he nor I wanted to crossthat boundary. You know, we set
a boundary, whether it was wenever had the discussion, but we
(22:40):
both knew, and so I had reachedout to his two of his three
children, who I was fairly closewith that did not live in the
area, and just gave them a touchpoint. They were aware of his
health, and they would come inand visit and spend time with
him. But I just So we reachedout to a local agency that was
locally owned and operated atthe time, and I was part of that
(23:03):
where and the irony in all ofthis, or, you know, just that, I
won't even say irony, it's justa beautiful thread that has has
formed through this was that hisoldest son and his wife had just
purchased their very First homecare agency upon his retirement
from a long career at IBM, theywanted to go into business
(23:24):
together. They had had someservice failures while trying to
get care for her mother, thatled for them to look into and
then they found their very firstbright star care in Northern
Virginia, wow, and bought that.
And all of this is happening atthe time that I'm caring for his
father, and this is12 years ago now,
(23:47):
and so that's kind of howDavid's cousin Rob and Carrie
and I, you know, spent more timetalking about making sure his
father was getting that care andseeing them upon their visits
while they were caring for him,and learning the Business up in
Northern Virginia, but it was adifferent agency, because bright
store care wasn't in thisterritory, but they bought it
(24:07):
when the locally owned andoperated sold. So they bought
the territories in Lynchburg andRoanoke at that time. Wow, is
it. So I think, you know, youtouch on a couple of things, and
I'm like, ooh, go back to that.
I like that. You said you allhad this unspoken you and the
and the uncle had this unspokenagreement that this is the line.
And I can tell you, caring forour mom and doing the things
(24:32):
that we need to do, especiallyrelated to ADLs, which is
activities of daily living,otherwise known as personal
care. And there's they crossover into each other, because
there's general activities ofdaily living, and then there's
the true personal care, whereyou're getting all in people's
business, is the way I would putit. And I would I think that it
would have felt for us. It wouldhave been very different had we
(24:56):
cared for our if we were caringfor.
A dad right now. I think beingable, I think when you have
opposite sex that are doingthat, and then children, or
whoever that is, that cannot bea problem for paid because I
feel like there is this naturalboundary respect, there's its
(25:18):
profession, and then versus therole that you're originating in,
and then feeling like, Oh, thatfeels like too personal, and
being able to have thoseconversations and or not, but
looking, having the look of likewe know we're not going there,
like we're not going there.
Friend and Bob was very good atgiving a look, yeah.
(25:42):
So we knew. So, you know, it's,the thing is, that's interesting
to me that here you say, numberone, I love that your parents
travel a lot. I'm not gonna lieto you, I think that's pretty
magic at the time, though, andyou're doing all the caring, and
are like, and I say that not inan ugly way, because your
husband's working, you're takingthe lead in caregiving, and what
(26:03):
I think is a traditional femalerole identified as a female
role. Did you and your husbandhave a conversation about, like,
Hey, I keep caring for all yourpeople? Or, you know what? I
mean, like, did you how did you,like, how did you all decide who
was going to be the primary?
Because you do, you have acareer. Are you working at this
point as well. Are you stillbasically being full time mama?
So I took care of Isaac, which,you know, my brother and sister
(26:25):
in law paid me for me well forthat. Okay, thank you. Yes, yes,
yeah, they were, you know, theywanted it to have a professional
component and expectation set inthere, okay, and so I was, I was
being financially compensated,okay, for caring for my nephew.
(26:48):
My brother had decided to retireearly, and I another one of
those God moments. He was veryspiritual person, and it just
spoke to him that he needed toretire early, which, without
telling too much, was a verybeautiful gift that he gave to
his son, because by the mynephew was 12, I think at the
(27:10):
time, so by from the time mynephew was 12, I was no longer
earning An income. However, mymy father and my mother. My
father had his own business, andit was a business consultant,
and so I would do work for them.
So I was supplementing income,but I was not a professional.
(27:31):
And, you know, my goal wasalways, and my husband's, and we
did have this conversation,yeah, that I was able to be able
to be there and be a stay athome mom, and do all that
responsibility that goes withthat, and be that focus. So I
would coach volleyball, and Iwould get paid, and I would do
summer. I mean, so there were,it sounds like you were a
professional, stilldomestic engineer. You are a
(27:53):
domestic engineer. That is aprofessional, yeah. And you're,
yeah, yeah. So the the Bobwasn't,
there was never a discussionabout it, because I just saw a
need, and I Yeah, and I steppedin. And I think that's, you
know, I I'm sure there's manyother caregivers out there that
(28:14):
these roles, you fall into them,yeah, and
my biggest, I guess cautionaryis
to always take a pulse on that.
I wish I had done better ofthat,
you know, because it took a bigwake up call for me to take time
(28:36):
to do that. And the reason I saythat is because now that I am in
the industry and having theseconversations more often with a
variety of people,often see where people it gets
to the point where the personbeing cared for has panic
attacks, anxiety attacks whenthis person is no longer in it
no so you get you get to Apoint, or can get to a point
(28:59):
where it becomes even moredifficult to take that next step
and get that respite. It's stilldoable, but it's harder. It's
that separation anxiety, verysimilar to the two year old, you
know, where that 18 month, thatthat time little period, and
I've seen that time and timeagain, and I've seen it. You
(29:20):
know, you know my my parents arenot traveling as much now. My
father has been diagnosed withwith several different illnesses
that one of which isParkinson's. We have that in
common, and my mother is hisprimary, and they care for each
(29:40):
other, but my mother it, youknow, there's a lot of doctor
visits, there's a lot of thisand a lot of that. And, you
know, I think the difference nowwhen you talk about Jennifer and
my roles before cancer, and thenmy who I am, and now I.
So I now we have care giversgoing in and assisting and
(30:04):
giving my mother that respite.
And it's not it's not me, and Ihave a brother who's now
retired, who's now stepped inand doing more of those kinds of
touch points to make sure thehouse, you know, things that
need to get done that that usedto be all me down the road,
so that it's changed. Oh, thisis the I think this conversation
(30:25):
is so rich with great advice andnuggets and to be able to be
insightful. I mean, because Ithink that's what I keep hearing
you saying, is you're able to beinsightful in the saying, hey,
look, this worked for me in thepast, but if I were to do it
again as as I'm carryingforward, I know these are the
things that I need to do torespect myself, to be able to
(30:49):
give as much as I can give, andand both things can be true.
We're going to take anotherbreak for a second, and we're
going to jump back into thisbecause it gets more and gosh,
Jennifer, I'm so glad you're mybest friend and not. JJ, okay,
that's okay, Jay, she'll be yourfriend too. All right, we'll be
right back. Careforward is atechnology platform that
(31:10):
connects volunteers withseniors, the disabled and those
with chronic or complex healthconditions, offering support
like transportation, home visitsand more details
online@careforward.ioAll right, everybody. We are
back here with Jennifer Massey.
And wow, she has, like, she'slike a layer cake. I always say
it's like an apple stack cake,because you kind of smush it
(31:32):
together, like it's not just alayer so you've got all these,
these you're learning as you gothrough this. But I know that
you come to a point where, andyou talk about this sort of
pivot point, I want to talkabout, if we're, we're, if
you're open to talking about, orwe're at that stage where your
brother kind of steps in,because I think this is your,
(31:52):
your next phase. So let's talkabout this, how this occurred,
because this is your oldestbrother. Is the brother that I
think kind of makes a pivotpoint for you where a lot
happens. Yes, so 2016My brother was diagnosed with
stage four lung cancer.
It was Christmas Day. He haddriven back from church with his
(32:17):
wife and his son, and he madethis declaration that if he were
to die today, that he could not,you know, have asked for
anymore, that he just truly feltblessed. And he had had from a
persistent call that my sisterin law had decided, you know,
he's a general surgeon, mybrother and she was like, you
know, it's time you need to sohe went, you know, and was able,
(32:43):
I think, the night, maybe the26th or the 27th went and got
scanned, got an x ray, and assoon as he saw it, he knew, you
know, he he's seen it before,and he knew they gave him six
months, by the grace of God, hecould true To had just been
released, and that extended hislife for five years. Wow, yeah,
(33:06):
beautiful gift, beautiful giftfor all of us. So as all this
was unfolding, my sister in lawreally her passion, and she's a
very gifted she's a professor atWashington and Lee University,
and she's the medical schooldirector and organic chemistry,
if that tells you anything, isher, is her passion. She's
(33:30):
brilliant, smart, she's smart,so she
you know that that's her recipe.
That's where she getsrejuvenated, right? That's her.
And my sister in law is verygood about her boundaries. And
that's one thing. You know, weall have our have our strengths,
and my sister in law has alwaysbeen good about setting her her
(33:51):
boundaries, like she did whenshe knew that, you know, taking
care of an infant was notfilling her tank.
So this was something that sheneeded assistance with. And, of
course, my mother, you know, youcan imagine as a mom, having,
you know, being told that yourson and because he was 57 at the
(34:13):
time, he was my age when he wasdiagnosed. So the between us and
then a dear friend of mybrothers, and that is who my
sister in law really wanted tocharge it up was to have
somebody that she hired justlike she had done me
to be the primary and build thatrelationship. And this woman was
my, was a good friend of my mybrothers and my sister in law's,
(34:35):
and so she stepped in betweenthe three of us. We provided the
transportation and the care mybrother was still able to do
those personal ADLs that we thatyou mentioned, but it was being
there for him, right? And thiswas very different, because this
was my big brother. This was my,you know, he, he was my rock
(34:56):
from the time I can remember.
And so.
So to have, I would have doneanything
for him and and my children, my,you know, this is where I talked
about modeling and my my oldestdaughter ended up becoming part
of both Bob's care team, UncleBob and also my brothers. She
(35:19):
had taken a gap year and waspart of so she was emulating
just like I had emulated mymother and and all this as we
go. But caring for my brotherwas enlightening, exhausting, at
times, emotionally to see youknow there were some very
vulnerable moments with him asthis diagnosis, because my
(35:40):
brother never smoked a day inhis life. Wow, you know, yeah,
this stage four lung cancer cameout of nowhere. We were not
exposed to secondhand smokegrowing up, you know, it just
this wasso, you know, him trying to
figure out in his mindset, like,how did I get this that, you
know, they were in? And then theexiting, you know, those hard
(36:01):
conversations he and I wouldhave about, you know, leaving
his wife behind and leaving hisson. And would he see his son
graduate from college? Would hesee him, you know, graduate from
medical school? Would he see himget married? Would he see his
grandbaby? And he got to do allthose except the grandbaby. And
I do know we saw the grandbaby,because he's He's always with
us, butyeah, so it was a beautiful time
(36:25):
up until about a month prior.
Well, I'd say three months priorto his passing, I was getting
more and more tired. I wouldstill go and visit with him, but
I just I was not feeling well,and I was there was something
(36:45):
seriously wrong. And having beena general surgeon,
you know, we talk about thingslike poop.
We talk we would talk aboutanything. And I, and I just told
him I was describing, you know,what my experience was in the
bathroom and that I just was notsomething wasn't right. And he
(37:06):
said, It sounds to me like youhave an obstruction and you need
to get seen. And this is him,you know. And we knew he was in
hospice at this point, but youknow, he was still giving me
that advice. And I went, and Iwent to the
to the doctor and the GI andthen went in for the scope, and
they couldn't even do it becauseI had a tumor the size of my
(37:27):
fist in my rectum. Wow. And sotwo weeks prior to my brother's
passing, I was diagnosed withcolorectal cancer, and I know I
can't even, I can't evenimagine, because you've you now
have this complete reversal. Youhave been the permanent like,
(37:51):
like, to me, it feels likeyou're the stationary figure
that is, like a care figure,like you're, you're always
there. Like, if there'ssomebody, there's a need.
Rather, you're the primary orthat you are, you are a
caregiver to you're part of ateam. You're consistently a part
of the team. They're like,you're the sixth man. We want
you on our team every time,right? Because six man's
(38:13):
important. And you know, I thinknow you're put into this
position where you're needing tobe cared for, and your brother
is end of life, truly. And Iknow that when you said to me,
when we were not on the panel,but we were talking beforehand,
how that experience allowed youto be able to let him go. Oh,
(38:36):
yeah,so having a tumor the size of
your fist and not being able to,you know, go to the bathroom,
you don't eat much. I wasn'teating anything at that point,
and actually was living off aboost. So I was very, very sick,
(38:57):
but I was very much leaning intomy faith. I've always been a
believer, and I was leaning andleaning and leaning my faith.
And I do notthere's a thin veil that they
talk about, you know, in in theBible that that veil, and I do
believe that I was the closestto God in this time because I
(39:17):
was at my weakest, and I wasmaking choices, and I was very
much at peace, feeling God'spresence, feeling the power of
prayer. People were praying, andI could feel it. And I was very
vulnerable, very weak. Now thisis it was to be very
(39:38):
transparent. It, you know, itwas very rocky. I mean, my
household, as you have pointedout, you know, I was the care
taker, I was the one that peoplewent to, and now all of a
sudden, I'm not. I'm the onethat's having to ask for it are
very different. So the rolesjust, it was like a giant.
(40:00):
Pot of spaghetti with every kindof noodle you can imagine, just
got thrown across the room andwhat stuck where, whatever. So
at that point, I was the closestto God and felt his presence so
much. And I do think it was aprotection for me in that when
my brother passed, I was atpeace for him, because I knew
(40:20):
that it was selfish of me towant him here when he was going
to get loved on more immenselywith being up with Jesus,
that that lovecould never compare to what I
could give him here. And itreally, there were so many
(40:43):
beautiful moments in all ofthat. I miss him dearly. I hear
him. I see him in you know,there's a giant Hawk that likes
to come and sit in my backyard,and I know, you know, I always
think that it's him comingbecause he's looking right in my
bedroom window in the morning.
And I'm like, Yeah, I know whosent you. I know so. But in that
time I was I was learning to behumble, I was learning to be
(41:07):
vulnerable. And I, that's why Isay this truly, that diagnosis
in my me, being on the receivingend of care, really transformed
my life. It, it, it broke somefamily patterns.
You know, all, even functionalfamilies are dysfunctional. Of
course, we're all and right, andyou know, there was, there was
(41:32):
definite room for growth.
One of the things that I think,being the that I've learned for
myself is I was doing a lot ofthe emotional work for a lot of
people for most of my life. Andwhen you do that, you're
stunting other people's abilityto grow in my firm, you know?
(41:53):
And so by me now, stepping back,people were were growing in ways
that that were needed. And so inthat being said, you know, I, I
am not a hands on Caregiver likeI was with my parents, and that
was a big transformation for allof us when I took on this role,
(42:14):
you know, I spent a lot of timepraying about, you know, what
was this next step when I got myno evidence of disease, you
know, after going throughtreatments. And you know, what
was this next piece going tolook like? And when this
opportunity full circle again,that that beautiful thread that
God, you know, has has woven,and I've been able to see where,
(42:35):
you know, Rob and Carrie Bob's,you know, they come to me, and
they've got the the rights toLynchburg and to Roanoke, and
asked, would I be interested indoing a little market research?
And now I'm, you know, RegionalSales Director, yeah, so a
little market research, becauseI believe in it so much, and I
believe that, you know, it's soimportant for people to have
(42:57):
resources available to them. AndI know what it's like to have
people in your home. I'm stillconsider my my I still pray for
her every day, my my nurse. Iwent to her baby shower. One of
her close friends is works PRNfor our agency. I mean, it's
justthe people that touch your lives
in those vulnerable moments makea difference. But it did grow
(43:20):
me, and it gave me the freedomto set boundaries for myself and
say no about some things and saya lot of yeses to others. I'm
kind of curious about the momentthat you had to tell your family
that you actually were the onethat was sick, when you had to
say, This is my diagnosis. What?
What did that feel like?
(43:47):
Well, there had been abreakdown, emotional breakdown.
I had had. My family wouldalways tell me, you just have to
tell us, you know, and we'll dowhatever. So there was a day
where I just didn't, I couldn't,didn't have the energy to fix
dinner, and so I my go to hasalways been, since I was young,
to go for a drive, to go for adrive in the country. And I was,
(44:10):
I was, this was, let's say thiswas early. This
was probably late May of 2021,and God spoke to me on that
drive. I was sobbing, and I wasso angry at everybody, you know,
at home, I'm like, They're allgrown, and everybody's moaning
and groaning, and, you know, I'mabout, you know, me not doing
this, me not doing that. And Iheard God very loudly say,
(44:30):
Jennifer, you are sick, and youare going to need to let others,
you know? I mean, it was boldtext. It just came through very
loud. So when I came home thatnight, my husband is very good.
He brought everybody togetherand said, you know, we got to
talk this out as a family. Andwe all did. And these are, you
know, my kids are grown at thispoint. I've got two in college.
(44:51):
One my actually, one was in justfinished her Master's. The other
was in his senior.
My other was just in her senioryear of high school. So these
are grown people we're havingthese conversations with. So at
that point, I had tried to tellthem that I knew I was very
(45:12):
sick, and my husband was like,No, you'll go to the doctor and
everything will be fine. So whenthe time did come on July 29
2021 I did not have an emotionalreaction when the doctor woke me
up and told me. And I do thinkthat, along with where my
brother was, when I we got home,my husband and I remember,
(45:33):
you're sitting in the car, andwe said, Okay, we're going to go
in and tell the kids. And thedoctor did tell me. He said,
This is a, you know, this isn'ta death sentence. You're, you
know, people are can livethrough this. And he knew what I
was going through. He wasfriends with my brother, so he
did he or he knew the story ofwhere we were in our life. So
when we got out to the porch andwe and we told the kids, I think
(45:54):
my husband spoke honestly. Idon't think I spoke. I think he
said the words, and thenfollowed up with, you know that
it will all be good. And thenthe next thing I did was I
called my prayer warriorfriends, and I called my
minister, and I called myparents, and that was the
hardest I really think, wastelling my parents
(46:15):
and that everybody came to thehouse, and we did a prayer
circle. And that's where mystrength continues to come from.
Did you tell your brother mybrother? My Yes, I told my
brother, but he knew he knew heknew he knew. And I would like
to ask my I've got to ask mydad, because I remember I ended
up being being able to be seenmuch sooner. And anybody that's
(46:39):
listening to this, whether youknow caregiver or or the one
being cared for. You know theroller coaster journey you're
on. You know the highs and thelows, and you know when you're
told No, and that's one thing Ido want to say. You know, no
matter what your role is, yougot to be an advocate for
yourself. You've got, you knowyour caregivers. We're so often
(46:59):
advocating for everybody elseall the time, that we allow
ourselves to be put in the back.
And this really had me be theadvocate for myself. And I was
told that I could not be seen orwould not there was no
availability for me to be seen.
And I just called up thescheduler sobbing, and I said, I
(47:21):
will be dead. I will be dead ifI cannot. And I truly, you know,
I was no longer eating. I mean,I there was no way I was gonna
be able to go three weekswithout being seen. I just there
wasn't. And sure enough, therewas an opening. And she saw me.
And when she saw me at UVA, shesaid, Go downstairs, get the
blood work. I want you backtomorrow, and we're gonna hop
(47:42):
going to operate. And that'swhen they did the first ostomy.
Wow. That saved my life. So thenthat's I didn't see my brother
until after all that unfolded.
And so my dad has a picture ofme and my brother. You know
me. It's got to be the mostpitiful picture ever, because he
(48:03):
was in the, you know, the lasttwo weeks of his life, and I was
fighting for mine. You know,it's, it's, it's weird. I know
I'm, we just let this keepgoing. We just rolling. Because
I'm like, I'm like, We're wayover our time, and I don't even
really care. Um, no, I don'treally, don't care. And so,
(48:24):
because this is so important,because this also comes back to,
you know, I think about theimpact that chronic stress and
caring for yourself can have onyour body, and that many
caregivers can get sick. And I'mnot saying that your cancer is a
direct result, however, that weknow that chronic stress, and
(48:47):
you know certain hormones andchemicals in our body that free
flow because of this can impactyour immune system and ability
to fight off. It's just thefacts are out there. You're
unsure. You can email me andI'll send it to you, because I
can tell you that it's true andit's it's no difference in
people who have experiencedtrauma as children, and how this
(49:10):
can impact your life. And so,you know the thing is, is that,
would you say, let me ask youthis question, because we do
need to do sister questions. Dowe? Would you say that you were
mindful about keeping all ofyour appointments and taking
care of yourself during the timethat you are providing care up
(49:31):
until like I see this headnodding no for those who can't,
who can't or aren't watching onYouTube, no, no.
I constantly put my own youknow. I my my tank was getting
filled, you know, and I'll takeownership for it, you know. I,
my tank was getting filled,filling others and caring for
(49:53):
others. And I many of thisdoctor's appointment, you know.
I thought all my symptoms wererelated to menopause. I mean,
any girl,right? I mean one, I didn't end
up going, we could go intoanother podcast on menopause.
Well, I ended up getting mycomplete hysterectomy at the
(50:16):
time with the other so I, youknow, didn't have all those slow
side effects. What I wasexperiencing was all colorectal
cancer related, I believe, yeah,so no, to answer your question,
very, very honestly, I had notbeen good about any of that, and
we're all guilty of it. We'reall guilty. And even when my
children were little, you know,I was so diligent about making
(50:38):
sure they got to the doctor. Iwas so diligent about making
sure my mother and my, you know,my father follow through on
their appointments. And, youknow, getting Bob to to his and
my, you know, all of it.
And my grandmother had had anostomy. And, you know, this is
the other thing. Like, you know,why didn't that ever come up? My
grandmother had colorectalcancer in her, you know, late
(50:59):
80s, right? Like, ding, ding,ding, ding, ding. I'm not gonna
lie to you, we've had this.
We've said the same thing wehave, like, we always joke that
we have jacked up vaginas anduteruses and all that stuff. And
so it's true. But like, when,you know, JJ got sick, and then
we find out from our aunt thatother people in our family have
had, you know, issues, we'relike, Okay, where was everybody
(51:20):
talking about this on Sunday?
Like, can we not share somefamily medical history and just
pass that around, like we'repassing the tray or plate at
church? So like, like, I thinkthis is the other thing, and
it's one of those, like, we haveto be as families more diligent
about sharing kind oflongitudinal medical history,
(51:42):
like generational medicalhistory, because I think that's
important to say, if we have ahistory of it, and some things
like, I know your dad hasParkinson's, and that net does
not necessarily, it's not provento be genetic that I'm aware of,
but, but there's we also don'tknow as much as we need to know.
And so the more that we knowabout our past medical history,
(52:04):
including our both sides of thefamily and people who have had
things, the more that it allowsyou to be more aware and have an
awareness for signs and symptomsthat allow you to do more
prevention. And where iseverybody's guilty of it? Girl,
well, and I knew my grandmotherhad an ostomy. I mean, I was
part of, you know, I knew thatthat had happened, but, you
(52:24):
know, once again, I was in my20s, and I also wasn't putting
myself first. So I didn't, Ididn't, once again, didn't
advocate for myself. And it tookthis diagnosis for me to
advocate for myself and continueto Jay, we're gonna jump into
sister questions. I feel like,for all of our friends in UK,
(52:45):
health radio, I've been writingmine down, so I have to pick
one. Okay, yeah, I waswondering, any of you are over
there shopping on Amazon, orwhat she looks down? I'm like,
what my menopause means? I can'tremember anything, so I have to
write everything down. I'm like,Okay, this was a question, and
then, because I'd get to sisterquestions, question, be like,
what was my question? So myquestion is, I know that
(53:07):
everyone has to have a rock or asource of, I guess, energy and
something that really bringsthem back to center. And I
continue to hear and even readyour bio, that your source is
your faith, which is for me,incredibly important. Can you
just, can you just share alittle bit about that and just
(53:29):
tell me something that you wouldwant to share about why that is
so important you would sharewith our audience.
For me havingGod and Jesus as my higher power
freed me from my need tocontrol.
It allowed me to focus ongratitude, which I do believe
(53:54):
was a huge part of my healing. Ispent intentionally even on the
most difficult of days, I wouldsay three gratitudes. I
remember, especially, you know,being grateful for the first for
the person who thought of anostomy, for the first person
that allowed somebody to do anostomy, for chemo, for the for
(54:14):
every human I encountered on myway to the appointments. So
gratitude in combination with,you know, being expressing that
specifically to my higher powerwas was trained, really carries
me through each day. And I amvery intentional now. And
(54:34):
tonight is our night. EveryTuesday night, my we do yoga,
and we do it together as afamily. We zoom in. We have, I
have a dear friend of mine who Imet through the Parkinson's
support group in in Lynchburg,and she comes to our house, and
we any kids that are availableat my my son in laws or my
daughter in law, they everybodyjoins in by zoom and we do a
(54:55):
family yoga, which rejuvenatesit gets me to focus.
And to remember to breathe. Andthen I try to incorporate that
in my, you know, I'm sure I'mshowing up at Jennifer's house
tonight. She has, no,yes, she it won't be awkward.
She's, I mean, she's our Myoldest is actually, you know,
they joke that she's now theolder sister that my oldest had
(55:17):
always wanted.
I love that idea that isprobably one of the most unique
connecting relationship selfcare,
joint like congregate, self careor not even we're not going to
the movies, our family we'regoing to yoga.
(55:37):
Yoga. We're doing family yoga.
It's family night. We're doingyoga. It's not game night. We're
doing yoga. I think that'sprobably one of the most awesome
Jay you get. Do you have onemore question that you want to
make? I want to know I'm good.
I'm good. She didn't answerseveral events. I'm going to
tell you. I feel like she justtold us what her guilty pleasure
was, although that's not aguilty pleasure. Always into
every podcast with what is yourfavorite guilty pleasure? What
(55:58):
is the one thing that you dojust for you? Because this
family thing, I'm digging that awhole, whole lot weird. Well,
I'll tell you a new guiltypleasure. Oh, ready. It's a new
one to me,and I would have never thought
that I love it as much as I do.
But thehot, polar and cold plunge. Have
you ever have you heard of doneyoga? But there's, there's a
(56:21):
local place in in Lynchburg thatyou go in and you do the sauna
for 15 minutes, and then you getinto 52 degree, yeah, water for
up to three and then you go backto the sauna, and then go back,
and you go back and forth andback and forth. They bring you
hot tea in between. And let metell you, the first time I did
it, I could only do a minute inbut it but the breathing from
(56:44):
yoga helps, because it's throughthat breathing that you can
tolerate. But I've now gotten upto where I can do the three
minutes in the coldest tub, andthen do the 15 minutes in the
hot sauna, and then go back andforth. And there's another thing
that my my children, when theycome in town, that that we do
together. But it does somethingto my endorphins. It's so that's
(57:06):
my new guilty pleasure. I'mgoing to tell you right now, if
you think about athletes getinto cold baths and they do
something very similar. Becausewhat it does is it talks about,
I know that this is likeregenerating for your body, and
that it is actually so good. AndJay, I think we should go to
Lynchburg and do this. Yes,come. I think this is a I think
that I'm gonna attend the yogaclass. I'm not sure about that
(57:29):
cold thing I would do the cold,the cold bath. I would do it.
Okay, the next time I'm inLynchburg, I'm calling you
Jennifer. I'm willing to do it.
Natalie, if we do it, though, wehave to video because,
oh yeah, oh yeah. It's, it is,it is so rejuvenating. And I'm
actually going to be doing itthis weekend. Oh, so it's about,
(57:52):
I do about I've it's not becomecommitted to a certain amount of
time, but it just so happensthat I'm at least doing it once
a month. So, oh, that's likegetting once a month. So now I'm
taking the plunge once a month.
You know, I'm gonna check andsee if they've got something in
Roanoke. They got to, becausethis is really cool. But I'm
gonna, I'm gonna tell you,Jennifer, what a blessing you
have been. Thank you so much.
(58:14):
Your story is just, it's soinspiring. And your words of
wisdom. I know we could talkeven more. We didn't even get to
talking about you're currentlycaring for your dad and
supporting your mom, like in thesense of supporting the family
with your dad with Parkinson's.
And I saw a lot of stuff. We'regoing to have Jennifer's
information in the show notes,so you definitely want to follow
(58:35):
along with some of her journeyand learn more about bright
star, guys. She is a fantasticresource when it comes to
understanding home care. So I'mgoing to tell you right now, she
is an amazing human being. I wasprivileged to get to sit on a
panel right next to her, whichis clearly why she's now my
bestie and not JJ and but shecan be JJ, bestie. But thanks so
(58:58):
much, Jennifer, being with us. Ireally, really appreciate it.
Well, thank you for having me.
It's been a pleasure. All right,Jayden,
well, absolutely Thank you,Jennifer, and until we confess
again, we'll see you next time,bye, bye.
(59:18):
Well, friends, that's a wrap onthis week's confession again.
Thank you so much for listening.
But before you go, please take amoment to leave us a review and
tell your friends about theconfessions podcast. Don't
forget to visit our website tosign up for our newsletter.
You'll also find the videorecording of all of our episodes
on the confessions website andour YouTube channel. Don't
(59:40):
worry, all the details areincluded in the show notes
below. We'll see you nextTuesday when we come together to
confess again. Till then, takecare of you.
Okay, let's talk disclaimers.
You may be surprised to findout, but we are.
Not medical professionals andare not providing any medical
(01:00:03):
advice. If you have any medicalquestions, we recommend that you
talk with a medical professionalof your choice. As always, my
sisters and I, at Confessions ofa reluctant caregiver, have
taken care in selectingspeakers, but the opinions of
our speakers are theirs alone.
The views and opinions stated inthis podcast are solely those of
the contributors and notnecessarily those of our
(01:00:27):
distributors or hosting company.
This podcast is copyrighted andno part can be reproduced
without the express writtenconsent of the sisterhood of
care LLC, thank you forlistening to the confessions of
our reluctant caregiver podcast.
Hey guys, it's your favorite sisters with the
Confessions of a reluctantcaregiver. Podcast. On the show,
you'll hear caregiversconfessing the good, the bad and
the completely unexpected.
You're guaranteed to relate, beinspired. Lead with helpful tips
and resources, and, of course,laugh. Now let's get to today's
confession.
(00:29):
Hey, Jay, good morning, goodmorning, good morning.
Why are you trying to escape mysong? All right, fine, you can
sing it you will mainly becauseyou over Sing me like your voice
is more and so it makes me beable to sing, and no one can
hear my voice. Well, that'sreally bad. I have a slight
(00:49):
problem right here. I hold onjust a second.
You know, we never do this inthe podcast, but a Scott
neutered, and a Scott just camein my office, and so hold on,
we're on pause. We will pausethis. Hold on,
(01:09):
that was a pause. Hold on. Wehave rare emergencies. We're
like, that's gotta go. Good job.
Medley, okay, you want to startover again. No reason, no reason
not to just keep on going. Allright, so, so, yeah, slight
interruption, dog got in theway, and now we're back. So,
okay, Jay, good morning. How areyou doing? You know, I'm
delightful, and I'm so glad thatyou and I got our like, we're
(01:31):
like, sort of summer, but we're,we're moving into fall. We're
solids. Lime, we are solid.
We're solid, and we're solid.
That's yeah. And Jenniferbrought our colors together, our
guest today, you know, she saidshe's got a little blue, she's
got some green. Yeah, I lovethat. Hey, you know you want to
tell us? You want me to tell youabout Jennifer, because now it's
(01:52):
not about my dog or him gettingneutered in his cone. If you
want to see how cute he was,he's on the YouTube channel.
We're going to make sure. Whynot leave him in there? Because,
you know what? It's cheaper notto edit. All right, so
Jennifer, today, I'm honored tointroduce you to Jennifer
(02:13):
Massey. She says serving othershas always been part of who she
is, and that caregiving camenaturally from volunteering in
high school to gramps andgrannies, which I love, where
she was paired with seniors innative companionship, to
College, where she worked at arunaway shelter. She's played
multiple roles in caregiving.
I'm not telling the whole story.
Natalie said, don't say, okay,okay, Jennifer's gotta help him
(02:36):
talk about something I know. Soshe helped care for her
grandmother, supporting a greataunt and her husband's uncle
while raising three children,and now, as her parents age, she
has become part of their careteam. When her oldest brother,
though, was diagnosed with stagefour lung cancer, she helped
care for him until just weeksbefore his passing, she was
(02:56):
diagnosed with colorectalcancer. So this is a season of
life she calls the painful gift,and it was a time of what she
says, deep surrender, growth andcloseness with God. Through
pain, she found profoundgratitude. And I love that. That
is a quote like I could write onmy wall. Jennifer, so thank you
so much for being here with ustoday. We are we are ready for
(03:20):
you to get talking. Yeah, I'mexcited to be here. Thank you.
Thank you Well, and this isfantastic. So I had the
opportunity to be on a panelwith Jennifer. That's how we
met. Jennifer lives here insunny Virginia with with me,
because all the cool kids livein Virginia, and we were on a
panel talking about caregiving.
And Jennifer, you work in thefield in supporting individuals,
(03:43):
but you have direct experienceyourself being a unpaid family
caregiver. And so why don't wekind of start from the beginning
and talk a little give us alittle background about your
family and growing up and howkind of lead us into care.
Because it sounds like you werea youth caregiver. It started
(04:05):
really early. The attitude ofservice started early. Yeah. So
fortunately, I was able toattend a school that put a big
emphasis on service, and so partof what was offered was
different opportunities to giveback to our community. And one
of those, I think, actually,when I started thinking back on
(04:28):
it was middle school, when theyoffered this gramps and
grannies, which was a reallycool idea, where our
administrators reached out andmet people in the community that
were in walking distance to ourschool, and so once a week, we
would be partnered with a seniorwho was probably aging solo, and
we'd go down and just spend sometime with them. I'm not sure you
(04:53):
could get away with that in thisday and age. However, then it
was and I do think.
And it planted a seed. There wasdefinitely a mutual it was, you
know, good for me and good forthem.
As I aged through that school.
There was another opportunity tocare for medical community up
the street to also longer walk,but walking distance to care for
(05:18):
physicians and nurses childrenwhile they were like to help out
in the daycare that was adjacentto the hospital. And so I would
do that as well. And thatsparked something in me too,
being around that kind of energyand just filled my heart, but it
for a personal story of myfamily, my grandmother, my
(05:42):
family. I'm the only one bornand raised in Virginia, in
Lynchburg. All my family wasfrom up north. My father was an
only child, and his mother agedall the way up until her 80s, up
in Massachusetts. So the timecame where my parents were now
my age, late, later, 50s, and mygrandmother needed to be moved.
(06:04):
She had had several falls, andthe time came where there was
just no other support for her,her her friend group, you know,
had passed away, and hercommunity was getting smaller,
and her support system wasgetting smaller up
Massachusetts, so the time cameto move her. Well, at that
point, I was living in Raleigh.
My parents had a place inRaleigh, and they found an
(06:25):
assisted living for her. Myparents labs were very busy at
that time, and I was takingclasses in NC State, and so I
would fill those gaps and bepart of my grandmother's care
team. And I remember taking abreak, one of my breaks from
school to fly up. My grandmotherwas hospitalized, and then so my
oldest brother made thearrangements. He was in med
school at the time, and made thearrangements for me. And I look
(06:48):
back on this, and it is kind ofshocking how it you know, just,
we just all do what we have todo, right? And so I went up and
cared for my my grandmotherwhile she was in the hospital,
and then the decision was madeto move her to Raleigh, and so I
helped care for her. My parentshad a place in Virginia and in
North Carolina, and I would bewhen they were traveling between
(07:11):
the two places. I was thebackup. Oh, you were back. I
care. I was back up, but yeah,but sometimes I was forefront
well, and I was getting ready tosay, so you were in you were you
said you were in college, youwere in your early 20s, then,
I'm assuming, and yes, or lateteens, early 20s, when this
happened, and you are truly itsounds like you started we talk
(07:34):
about youth caregivers. And Ithink there's right at the
American Association ofcaregiving youth talks about
there being about 5.7 millioncaregiving youth in United
States, and most of these youthlike yourself. I mean, you did
volunteer work, but then yousounds like you had a family
that I had a culture of care. Itwas just something that was done
(07:54):
from generation to generation.
Would you say that's true? Yes,very much. So my mother was one
of five, six children. A sisterhad passed away early, and she
there's a huge age differencebetween her and her two younger
brothers. And so she was raised,you know, helping care for for
her siblings. And I think that,you know, it just does get
(08:16):
passed down naturally. Yeah. Soyou mentioned, oh, good, no, so
you mentioned an older brother.
Natalie always asked us, whereare you in the birth order? How
many siblings and where are you?
So I have three older brothers.
Okay, so I am the baby girl offour. Oh,
very protect. Very interesting.
(08:39):
Protected, later, protected,protected, later in life, but I
would say earlier, it made mescrappy. Oh, that's good.
She was changing tires. She waspicking up toads, riding dirt
bikes, yeah, whatever it took tobe part of the group. Oh, she's
resilient. I know she is. She'sbouncing back. So let me ask you
(09:02):
this. You've got those careexperiences, but during this
time, so I know that you you'remarried, you have three children
along this path. Tell me howthat interjects with where does
that bounce into all this lifehere? So I met my husband in
high school,so he's my high school
sweetheart. I love that. Yeah,we love a love story. We're not
gonna lie to your mom and dadwere high school sweethearts.
(09:24):
Yeah, yeah. So we met at 16 and17, and, you know, took that
little hiatus that you have totake when you go off to college.
I'm a year ahead of him inschool. And so we did take a
little hiatus there, but foundour way back, another one of
those threads that God had putus in the right place at the
right time, but always stayedconnected so then we ended up
(09:46):
dating for eight years prior togetting married.
Got married, and we're on year32 Oh, wow.
So, so you have, so you've,you've cared for I want to, I
want to kind of bring us uphere, you apart. I'm glad that
(10:07):
you say because you can tell youyou work in the industry,
because most people would notsay this when you said, I was a
part of the care team and and Ithink that's important, because
this is the first step to reallyidentifying as part of being a
caregiver and understanding yourrole in that team. We always
talk about the importance ofhaving a team. And I think you
(10:30):
know, my question for you wouldbe, how did your parents and I
want to go back to that a littlebit. How did your parents have
that? Did your family have thisconversation about, we're moving
your grandmother down to thehome, down to live close by.
This is how we're going to doit. This is, do you know, do you
and your brothers have this? Isit a family meeting, or is it
(10:51):
this is what's going to happen,and everybody's going to jump in
where needed. And if askedvolunteer kind of thing, well, I
will say it's, you know, in thatsituation, I'm giving you a 20
year old, 21 year oldsperspective. Oh, yeah. So I'm
sure there were conversationsthat I was not a part of,
(11:11):
especially on my mother's part,because it really the burden
was, you know, was on her, andshe was a full time my mom
worked full time as well as mydad and my brother. By that
point, my brother was practice.
He said he was a generalsurgeon, and he was practicing
at that point. So I'm sure therewere discussions as the baby,
right? You know, I you don'tever lose that. I'm sure there
(11:34):
were discussions I just was notpart of them. Yeah, yeah. So you
were just tagged in when needed,like, you just knew you were
gonna come help, because thatjust seemed like the right thing
to do. Yeah, and I thinkmy mother and I were very close,
and I saw the burden on her, soI think I stepped in to support,
which I, you know, being inthat, like you said, now that
(11:58):
I'm in the industry, and I dosee how easily caregivers can
get. You can lose yourself veryquickly and not even know it,
because you're you're goingthrough the motions as they're
unfolding. And for me, that wenton for many a year,
(12:19):
a long, time where I was and,and I was doing it out of a
place of gratitude, I mean, and,and, and it grew me, and I have
no resentment or in hindsight onit, but I, I would caution
people, you know, one of thethings you ask is, know thyself,
like really Spend some time. Ifyou're new to caregiving, it's a
(12:43):
great opportunity, if you'vebeen caregiving for years and
years, spend that time really toto center and figure out your
needs, because oftentimes we getinto this pattern and we don't
realize and for me, it took alife event to shake me shake it
up. Yeah, and do the refocus.
I'm gonna pause here because Iwant to transition into the next
(13:08):
episode. Because you again, likeso many caregivers, it's so
funny when we have we haveconversations with caregivers,
they don't typically just haveone episode of caregiving, or
they and one experience, andthen that's it. You're one and
done. It typically ends up beingsomething that they have
multiple episodes, and you'vedefinitely had that. And so
(13:30):
we're going to jump into thenext, next window of time where
you provide care. When we getright back
looking for care in all thewrong places. Try care scout.
Our care finder helps you locatelong term care providers in your
(13:51):
area who are committed toquality, person centered care
with care Scout, you can alsoorder a personalized care plan
created by a licensed nurse justfor you. So say goodbye to a
path to aging care that'snothing but confusing, and say
hello to a more dignifiedjourney, including providers who
see you as you and a plan forquality care you can feel good
(14:13):
about. Learn more at carescout.com
All right, everybody. We areback here with Jennifer Massey,
and we're talking about nextphase, because she's been care
team and she's been younger.
She's been caring while she wasin college, so as part of the
family team. So let's talk aboutnext phase, Jennifer, because I
(14:35):
know at one point you aresandwich caregiver. So what was
your what was the next step inthis care journey? So I think
the next would have been a greataunt. Once again, my father was
an only child, and this was hisuncle's his maternal uncle's
(14:55):
wife had no child.
Children. So he was pretty muchlike their child, and she and
her sister were both widowedback up in Massachusetts again
and needed to be cared for. Andit was causing a lot of
journeying back and forth frommy mother and my father on
(15:16):
occasion, but mostly on mymother to care for these two
ladies. And so they were able toget them in a assisted up there,
but one of them passed. She wasmy aunt, Irene, was brought back
to live with my parents inLynchburg. And at that time, my
husband and I had three just hadhad my third baby,
(15:40):
and we were living down thestreet from my parents. They had
a family farm, and we had builta home down the street from
them, and so I was part of myaunt Irene scare team, and she
was delightful. I mean, she wasone of these very easygoing
always had a smile on her faceno matter what life was. You
know,in she just one of the things
(16:01):
when I remember her is I alwaystry to smile, and my my face
doesn't tend to rest in a smile.
But she was one of these peoplewho it always rested with a
smile. And so I was part of hercare team, because my parents
were still traveling for workand also for pleasure. And so,
you know, I was now instillingin my children, because my
(16:22):
oldest at this point would havebeen around nine, my son was six
or seven, and then, you know, myyoungest
in, you know, up until when,when she passed, and she passed,
Mother's Day weekend, 2007six, something like that. So she
was, she was the the next personI had the pleasure of caring for
and being part of that to assistmy mother. Were you working at
(16:44):
the time? No, well,yes, I was raising our three
children, but my brother and mysister in law, my oldest
brother, who I keep referring toa lot, she was a professional,
and my brother, being aprofessional as well, both
wanted and needed to be working.
(17:05):
And so when my sister in law gotpregnant a year after, well, she
was pregnant during my husband'sand my wedding, they we moved
back because there was a deathin my husband's family. My
father in law passed. So wemoved back because he wanted to
be close to his brothers. I wasasked to care and help raise my
take care of him during the day,my nephew and so I got the play.
(17:29):
He was my first, my first babyin the sense that I got to spend
every day with him. So I gonefrom the runaway shelter where I
had worked in North Carolina,and I did a short stint in
social services down in NorthCarolina, but we moved back to
Lynchburg to be closer to familyafter my father in law passed.
You were a full time daycare.
Some were your some work, butthat's okay. You were a full
(17:49):
time when it doesn't actuallymatter. Yeah, it doesn't matter,
you know, if you, if you talk toespecially, you know, it's
almost like, and Jennifer,you've worked in foster care,
you know, and this is such acultural thing. It's just like,
I'll just bring them. What's onemore like? And so you just, he
doesn't really matter. Related,not related. But, you know, it's
interesting this, this cultureof care, is really built into
(18:11):
your DNA, and it started from ayoung age. It very much sounds
like and what you what wasmodeled to you. And I love that
you said I started modeling thatto my own children. So I want to
go back to your your great aunt,what are some of the tasks that
you were responsible for?
Because, if you're you'reraising your children. Because
(18:34):
this is we were literally justtalking to
a group. We were beinginterviewed about what it's like
to be a sandwich caregiver, andso let me ask you that question,
what's it like to be a sandwichcaregiver? Because you were a
sandwich caregiver, but you hadtwo different situations. You
had your great aunt and thenyour husband's uncle. Did those
(18:55):
feel different based on the agesof your children? Did it feel
different based on where you andyour husband were in life, and
professionally, tell me a littlebit about those two different
how the how that differentiated,and did you build on it? Those
experiences, definitely so. AndI say modeling, but also it,
modeling can come off aspositive, and I don't think
(19:18):
necessarily all that I wasemulating was positive, like, in
the sense of, you know, notputting my needs before others.
And at times, that's veryimportant. I'd say it's
important all the time, yeah, tomake sure that you're listening
to yourself. But So thedifference between the two would
be that my mother, very muchengaged with my great aunt, and
(19:43):
there were resources to be ableto have additional help. So it
was filling in when the care,when the additional help
couldn't come in. There was no,I don't recall ever like having
to do the personal care side,like the hands on care for.
Her. And like I said, she wasjust so delightful. I mean, it
(20:04):
really was more of companionshipand being present and making
sure that there were, we wereeyes and ears and available.
Should there be a call off? Theywere able to get her into a
really beautiful local CCRC herefor her, her final, her final
days, isn't I want to pause fora second. It's interesting that
(20:27):
you said she had resource, butwhich is such a big deal, and
you know this, it's such a bigdeal to be able to have that
financial resource. And solisteners who are out there, the
ability to plan for that iscritical, so that you are really
able to build your care team andreally not burn out any one or
two individual people. And Ithink those are things that I
(20:48):
wish that we had hadconversations about growing up.
But the other piece of it is youdon't downplay the fact that you
were a caregiver for her bysaying, Well, I was just doing
companionship. I was just justthe word just comes, I can come
out of a lot of people's mouths,and that's why I think a lot of
people don't self identify ascaregivers, because they're
like, Don't undervalue theimpact that you're having on be,
(21:13):
on being present with being acompanion. Yeah, I think I was
holding space for my mother andmy father, and it's important.
It's important, you know, themore you can have your bench go
out, yeah, and have that for theripples,
for people to be able to stepaway and do what's needed. I
(21:36):
love that. So tell me about thedifference then with your
husband's uncle, well, he wasthat one, you know, fell
naturally. We had moved. Myparents were spending more time
away, and my husband and Idecided to move into the city
because our children, yeah, wemoved from a farm to a city,
(21:57):
yeah, we went to the big city ofLynchburg, and
he ended up being right down thestreet from us, and he truly was
a dear friend of mine. I wouldvisit him weekly. He was very
pragmatic, great sense of humor.
He could tell me things thatanybody else could tell me, and
I could hear it the first time.
(22:18):
But So I began to see a decline,and I knew he wanted to age, and
he wanted to remain in his homethat was very, very important to
him in the conversations we had.
And then I noticed that therewere personal care needs that
neither he nor I wanted to crossthat boundary. You know, we set
a boundary, whether it was wenever had the discussion, but we
(22:40):
both knew, and so I had reachedout to his two of his three
children, who I was fairly closewith that did not live in the
area, and just gave them a touchpoint. They were aware of his
health, and they would come inand visit and spend time with
him. But I just So we reachedout to a local agency that was
locally owned and operated atthe time, and I was part of that
(23:03):
where and the irony in all ofthis, or, you know, just that, I
won't even say irony, it's justa beautiful thread that has has
formed through this was that hisoldest son and his wife had just
purchased their very First homecare agency upon his retirement
from a long career at IBM, theywanted to go into business
(23:24):
together. They had had someservice failures while trying to
get care for her mother, thatled for them to look into and
then they found their very firstbright star care in Northern
Virginia, wow, and bought that.
And all of this is happening atthe time that I'm caring for his
father, and this is12 years ago now,
(23:47):
and so that's kind of howDavid's cousin Rob and Carrie
and I, you know, spent more timetalking about making sure his
father was getting that care andseeing them upon their visits
while they were caring for him,and learning the Business up in
Northern Virginia, but it was adifferent agency, because bright
store care wasn't in thisterritory, but they bought it
(24:07):
when the locally owned andoperated sold. So they bought
the territories in Lynchburg andRoanoke at that time. Wow, is
it. So I think, you know, youtouch on a couple of things, and
I'm like, ooh, go back to that.
I like that. You said you allhad this unspoken you and the
and the uncle had this unspokenagreement that this is the line.
And I can tell you, caring forour mom and doing the things
(24:32):
that we need to do, especiallyrelated to ADLs, which is
activities of daily living,otherwise known as personal
care. And there's they crossover into each other, because
there's general activities ofdaily living, and then there's
the true personal care, whereyou're getting all in people's
business, is the way I would putit. And I would I think that it
would have felt for us. It wouldhave been very different had we
(24:56):
cared for our if we were caringfor.
A dad right now. I think beingable, I think when you have
opposite sex that are doingthat, and then children, or
whoever that is, that cannot bea problem for paid because I
feel like there is this naturalboundary respect, there's its
(25:18):
profession, and then versus therole that you're originating in,
and then feeling like, Oh, thatfeels like too personal, and
being able to have thoseconversations and or not, but
looking, having the look of likewe know we're not going there,
like we're not going there.
Friend and Bob was very good atgiving a look, yeah.
(25:42):
So we knew. So, you know, it's,the thing is, that's interesting
to me that here you say, numberone, I love that your parents
travel a lot. I'm not gonna lieto you, I think that's pretty
magic at the time, though, andyou're doing all the caring, and
are like, and I say that not inan ugly way, because your
husband's working, you're takingthe lead in caregiving, and what
(26:03):
I think is a traditional femalerole identified as a female
role. Did you and your husbandhave a conversation about, like,
Hey, I keep caring for all yourpeople? Or, you know what? I
mean, like, did you how did you,like, how did you all decide who
was going to be the primary?
Because you do, you have acareer. Are you working at this
point as well. Are you stillbasically being full time mama?
So I took care of Isaac, which,you know, my brother and sister
(26:25):
in law paid me for me well forthat. Okay, thank you. Yes, yes,
yeah, they were, you know, theywanted it to have a professional
component and expectation set inthere, okay, and so I was, I was
being financially compensated,okay, for caring for my nephew.
(26:48):
My brother had decided to retireearly, and I another one of
those God moments. He was veryspiritual person, and it just
spoke to him that he needed toretire early, which, without
telling too much, was a verybeautiful gift that he gave to
his son, because by the mynephew was 12, I think at the
(27:10):
time, so by from the time mynephew was 12, I was no longer
earning An income. However, mymy father and my mother. My
father had his own business, andit was a business consultant,
and so I would do work for them.
So I was supplementing income,but I was not a professional.
(27:31):
And, you know, my goal wasalways, and my husband's, and we
did have this conversation,yeah, that I was able to be able
to be there and be a stay athome mom, and do all that
responsibility that goes withthat, and be that focus. So I
would coach volleyball, and Iwould get paid, and I would do
summer. I mean, so there were,it sounds like you were a
professional, stilldomestic engineer. You are a
(27:53):
domestic engineer. That is aprofessional, yeah. And you're,
yeah, yeah. So the the Bobwasn't,
there was never a discussionabout it, because I just saw a
need, and I Yeah, and I steppedin. And I think that's, you
know, I I'm sure there's manyother caregivers out there that
(28:14):
these roles, you fall into them,yeah, and
my biggest, I guess cautionaryis
to always take a pulse on that.
I wish I had done better ofthat,
you know, because it took a bigwake up call for me to take time
(28:36):
to do that. And the reason I saythat is because now that I am in
the industry and having theseconversations more often with a
variety of people,often see where people it gets
to the point where the personbeing cared for has panic
attacks, anxiety attacks whenthis person is no longer in it
no so you get you get to Apoint, or can get to a point
(28:59):
where it becomes even moredifficult to take that next step
and get that respite. It's stilldoable, but it's harder. It's
that separation anxiety, verysimilar to the two year old, you
know, where that 18 month, thatthat time little period, and
I've seen that time and timeagain, and I've seen it. You
(29:20):
know, you know my my parents arenot traveling as much now. My
father has been diagnosed withwith several different illnesses
that one of which isParkinson's. We have that in
common, and my mother is hisprimary, and they care for each
(29:40):
other, but my mother it, youknow, there's a lot of doctor
visits, there's a lot of thisand a lot of that. And, you
know, I think the difference nowwhen you talk about Jennifer and
my roles before cancer, and thenmy who I am, and now I.
So I now we have care giversgoing in and assisting and
(30:04):
giving my mother that respite.
And it's not it's not me, and Ihave a brother who's now
retired, who's now stepped inand doing more of those kinds of
touch points to make sure thehouse, you know, things that
need to get done that that usedto be all me down the road,
so that it's changed. Oh, thisis the I think this conversation
(30:25):
is so rich with great advice andnuggets and to be able to be
insightful. I mean, because Ithink that's what I keep hearing
you saying, is you're able to beinsightful in the saying, hey,
look, this worked for me in thepast, but if I were to do it
again as as I'm carryingforward, I know these are the
things that I need to do torespect myself, to be able to
(30:49):
give as much as I can give, andand both things can be true.
We're going to take anotherbreak for a second, and we're
going to jump back into thisbecause it gets more and gosh,
Jennifer, I'm so glad you're mybest friend and not. JJ, okay,
that's okay, Jay, she'll be yourfriend too. All right, we'll be
right back. Careforward is atechnology platform that
(31:10):
connects volunteers withseniors, the disabled and those
with chronic or complex healthconditions, offering support
like transportation, home visitsand more details
online@careforward.ioAll right, everybody. We are
back here with Jennifer Massey.
And wow, she has, like, she'slike a layer cake. I always say
it's like an apple stack cake,because you kind of smush it
(31:32):
together, like it's not just alayer so you've got all these,
these you're learning as you gothrough this. But I know that
you come to a point where, andyou talk about this sort of
pivot point, I want to talkabout, if we're, we're, if
you're open to talking about, orwe're at that stage where your
brother kind of steps in,because I think this is your,
(31:52):
your next phase. So let's talkabout this, how this occurred,
because this is your oldestbrother. Is the brother that I
think kind of makes a pivotpoint for you where a lot
happens. Yes, so 2016My brother was diagnosed with
stage four lung cancer.
It was Christmas Day. He haddriven back from church with his
(32:17):
wife and his son, and he madethis declaration that if he were
to die today, that he could not,you know, have asked for
anymore, that he just truly feltblessed. And he had had from a
persistent call that my sisterin law had decided, you know,
he's a general surgeon, mybrother and she was like, you
know, it's time you need to sohe went, you know, and was able,
(32:43):
I think, the night, maybe the26th or the 27th went and got
scanned, got an x ray, and assoon as he saw it, he knew, you
know, he he's seen it before,and he knew they gave him six
months, by the grace of God, hecould true To had just been
released, and that extended hislife for five years. Wow, yeah,
(33:06):
beautiful gift, beautiful giftfor all of us. So as all this
was unfolding, my sister in lawreally her passion, and she's a
very gifted she's a professor atWashington and Lee University,
and she's the medical schooldirector and organic chemistry,
if that tells you anything, isher, is her passion. She's
(33:30):
brilliant, smart, she's smart,so she
you know that that's her recipe.
That's where she getsrejuvenated, right? That's her.
And my sister in law is verygood about her boundaries. And
that's one thing. You know, weall have our have our strengths,
and my sister in law has alwaysbeen good about setting her her
(33:51):
boundaries, like she did whenshe knew that, you know, taking
care of an infant was notfilling her tank.
So this was something that sheneeded assistance with. And, of
course, my mother, you know, youcan imagine as a mom, having,
you know, being told that yourson and because he was 57 at the
(34:13):
time, he was my age when he wasdiagnosed. So the between us and
then a dear friend of mybrothers, and that is who my
sister in law really wanted tocharge it up was to have
somebody that she hired justlike she had done me
to be the primary and build thatrelationship. And this woman was
my, was a good friend of my mybrothers and my sister in law's,
(34:35):
and so she stepped in betweenthe three of us. We provided the
transportation and the care mybrother was still able to do
those personal ADLs that we thatyou mentioned, but it was being
there for him, right? And thiswas very different, because this
was my big brother. This was my,you know, he, he was my rock
(34:56):
from the time I can remember.
And so.
So to have, I would have doneanything
for him and and my children, my,you know, this is where I talked
about modeling and my my oldestdaughter ended up becoming part
of both Bob's care team, UncleBob and also my brothers. She
(35:19):
had taken a gap year and waspart of so she was emulating
just like I had emulated mymother and and all this as we
go. But caring for my brotherwas enlightening, exhausting, at
times, emotionally to see youknow there were some very
vulnerable moments with him asthis diagnosis, because my
(35:40):
brother never smoked a day inhis life. Wow, you know, yeah,
this stage four lung cancer cameout of nowhere. We were not
exposed to secondhand smokegrowing up, you know, it just
this wasso, you know, him trying to
figure out in his mindset, like,how did I get this that, you
know, they were in? And then theexiting, you know, those hard
(36:01):
conversations he and I wouldhave about, you know, leaving
his wife behind and leaving hisson. And would he see his son
graduate from college? Would hesee him, you know, graduate from
medical school? Would he see himget married? Would he see his
grandbaby? And he got to do allthose except the grandbaby. And
I do know we saw the grandbaby,because he's He's always with
us, butyeah, so it was a beautiful time
(36:25):
up until about a month prior.
Well, I'd say three months priorto his passing, I was getting
more and more tired. I wouldstill go and visit with him, but
I just I was not feeling well,and I was there was something
(36:45):
seriously wrong. And having beena general surgeon,
you know, we talk about thingslike poop.
We talk we would talk aboutanything. And I, and I just told
him I was describing, you know,what my experience was in the
bathroom and that I just was notsomething wasn't right. And he
(37:06):
said, It sounds to me like youhave an obstruction and you need
to get seen. And this is him,you know. And we knew he was in
hospice at this point, but youknow, he was still giving me
that advice. And I went, and Iwent to the
to the doctor and the GI andthen went in for the scope, and
they couldn't even do it becauseI had a tumor the size of my
(37:27):
fist in my rectum. Wow. And sotwo weeks prior to my brother's
passing, I was diagnosed withcolorectal cancer, and I know I
can't even, I can't evenimagine, because you've you now
have this complete reversal. Youhave been the permanent like,
(37:51):
like, to me, it feels likeyou're the stationary figure
that is, like a care figure,like you're, you're always
there. Like, if there'ssomebody, there's a need.
Rather, you're the primary orthat you are, you are a
caregiver to you're part of ateam. You're consistently a part
of the team. They're like,you're the sixth man. We want
you on our team every time,right? Because six man's
(38:13):
important. And you know, I thinknow you're put into this
position where you're needing tobe cared for, and your brother
is end of life, truly. And Iknow that when you said to me,
when we were not on the panel,but we were talking beforehand,
how that experience allowed youto be able to let him go. Oh,
(38:36):
yeah,so having a tumor the size of
your fist and not being able to,you know, go to the bathroom,
you don't eat much. I wasn'teating anything at that point,
and actually was living off aboost. So I was very, very sick,
(38:57):
but I was very much leaning intomy faith. I've always been a
believer, and I was leaning andleaning and leaning my faith.
And I do notthere's a thin veil that they
talk about, you know, in in theBible that that veil, and I do
believe that I was the closestto God in this time because I
(39:17):
was at my weakest, and I wasmaking choices, and I was very
much at peace, feeling God'spresence, feeling the power of
prayer. People were praying, andI could feel it. And I was very
vulnerable, very weak. Now thisis it was to be very
(39:38):
transparent. It, you know, itwas very rocky. I mean, my
household, as you have pointedout, you know, I was the care
taker, I was the one that peoplewent to, and now all of a
sudden, I'm not. I'm the onethat's having to ask for it are
very different. So the rolesjust, it was like a giant.
(40:00):
Pot of spaghetti with every kindof noodle you can imagine, just
got thrown across the room andwhat stuck where, whatever. So
at that point, I was the closestto God and felt his presence so
much. And I do think it was aprotection for me in that when
my brother passed, I was atpeace for him, because I knew
(40:20):
that it was selfish of me towant him here when he was going
to get loved on more immenselywith being up with Jesus,
that that lovecould never compare to what I
could give him here. And itreally, there were so many
(40:43):
beautiful moments in all ofthat. I miss him dearly. I hear
him. I see him in you know,there's a giant Hawk that likes
to come and sit in my backyard,and I know, you know, I always
think that it's him comingbecause he's looking right in my
bedroom window in the morning.
And I'm like, Yeah, I know whosent you. I know so. But in that
time I was I was learning to behumble, I was learning to be
(41:07):
vulnerable. And I, that's why Isay this truly, that diagnosis
in my me, being on the receivingend of care, really transformed
my life. It, it, it broke somefamily patterns.
You know, all, even functionalfamilies are dysfunctional. Of
course, we're all and right, andyou know, there was, there was
(41:32):
definite room for growth.
One of the things that I think,being the that I've learned for
myself is I was doing a lot ofthe emotional work for a lot of
people for most of my life. Andwhen you do that, you're
stunting other people's abilityto grow in my firm, you know?
(41:53):
And so by me now, stepping back,people were were growing in ways
that that were needed. And so inthat being said, you know, I, I
am not a hands on Caregiver likeI was with my parents, and that
was a big transformation for allof us when I took on this role,
(42:14):
you know, I spent a lot of timepraying about, you know, what
was this next step when I got myno evidence of disease, you
know, after going throughtreatments. And you know, what
was this next piece going tolook like? And when this
opportunity full circle again,that that beautiful thread that
God, you know, has has woven,and I've been able to see where,
(42:35):
you know, Rob and Carrie Bob's,you know, they come to me, and
they've got the the rights toLynchburg and to Roanoke, and
asked, would I be interested indoing a little market research?
And now I'm, you know, RegionalSales Director, yeah, so a
little market research, becauseI believe in it so much, and I
believe that, you know, it's soimportant for people to have
(42:57):
resources available to them. AndI know what it's like to have
people in your home. I'm stillconsider my my I still pray for
her every day, my my nurse. Iwent to her baby shower. One of
her close friends is works PRNfor our agency. I mean, it's
justthe people that touch your lives
in those vulnerable moments makea difference. But it did grow
(43:20):
me, and it gave me the freedomto set boundaries for myself and
say no about some things and saya lot of yeses to others. I'm
kind of curious about the momentthat you had to tell your family
that you actually were the onethat was sick, when you had to
say, This is my diagnosis. What?
What did that feel like?
(43:47):
Well, there had been abreakdown, emotional breakdown.
I had had. My family wouldalways tell me, you just have to
tell us, you know, and we'll dowhatever. So there was a day
where I just didn't, I couldn't,didn't have the energy to fix
dinner, and so I my go to hasalways been, since I was young,
to go for a drive, to go for adrive in the country. And I was,
(44:10):
I was, this was, let's say thiswas early. This
was probably late May of 2021,and God spoke to me on that
drive. I was sobbing, and I wasso angry at everybody, you know,
at home, I'm like, They're allgrown, and everybody's moaning
and groaning, and, you know, I'mabout, you know, me not doing
this, me not doing that. And Iheard God very loudly say,
(44:30):
Jennifer, you are sick, and youare going to need to let others,
you know? I mean, it was boldtext. It just came through very
loud. So when I came home thatnight, my husband is very good.
He brought everybody togetherand said, you know, we got to
talk this out as a family. Andwe all did. And these are, you
know, my kids are grown at thispoint. I've got two in college.
(44:51):
One my actually, one was in justfinished her Master's. The other
was in his senior.
My other was just in her senioryear of high school. So these
are grown people we're havingthese conversations with. So at
that point, I had tried to tellthem that I knew I was very
(45:12):
sick, and my husband was like,No, you'll go to the doctor and
everything will be fine. So whenthe time did come on July 29
2021 I did not have an emotionalreaction when the doctor woke me
up and told me. And I do thinkthat, along with where my
brother was, when I we got home,my husband and I remember,
(45:33):
you're sitting in the car, andwe said, Okay, we're going to go
in and tell the kids. And thedoctor did tell me. He said,
This is a, you know, this isn'ta death sentence. You're, you
know, people are can livethrough this. And he knew what I
was going through. He wasfriends with my brother, so he
did he or he knew the story ofwhere we were in our life. So
when we got out to the porch andwe and we told the kids, I think
(45:54):
my husband spoke honestly. Idon't think I spoke. I think he
said the words, and thenfollowed up with, you know that
it will all be good. And thenthe next thing I did was I
called my prayer warriorfriends, and I called my
minister, and I called myparents, and that was the
hardest I really think, wastelling my parents
(46:15):
and that everybody came to thehouse, and we did a prayer
circle. And that's where mystrength continues to come from.
Did you tell your brother mybrother? My Yes, I told my
brother, but he knew he knew heknew he knew. And I would like
to ask my I've got to ask mydad, because I remember I ended
up being being able to be seenmuch sooner. And anybody that's
(46:39):
listening to this, whether youknow caregiver or or the one
being cared for. You know theroller coaster journey you're
on. You know the highs and thelows, and you know when you're
told No, and that's one thing Ido want to say. You know, no
matter what your role is, yougot to be an advocate for
yourself. You've got, you knowyour caregivers. We're so often
(46:59):
advocating for everybody elseall the time, that we allow
ourselves to be put in the back.
And this really had me be theadvocate for myself. And I was
told that I could not be seen orwould not there was no
availability for me to be seen.
And I just called up thescheduler sobbing, and I said, I
(47:21):
will be dead. I will be dead ifI cannot. And I truly, you know,
I was no longer eating. I mean,I there was no way I was gonna
be able to go three weekswithout being seen. I just there
wasn't. And sure enough, therewas an opening. And she saw me.
And when she saw me at UVA, shesaid, Go downstairs, get the
blood work. I want you backtomorrow, and we're gonna hop
(47:42):
going to operate. And that'swhen they did the first ostomy.
Wow. That saved my life. So thenthat's I didn't see my brother
until after all that unfolded.
And so my dad has a picture ofme and my brother. You know
me. It's got to be the mostpitiful picture ever, because he
(48:03):
was in the, you know, the lasttwo weeks of his life, and I was
fighting for mine. You know,it's, it's, it's weird. I know
I'm, we just let this keepgoing. We just rolling. Because
I'm like, I'm like, We're wayover our time, and I don't even
really care. Um, no, I don'treally, don't care. And so,
(48:24):
because this is so important,because this also comes back to,
you know, I think about theimpact that chronic stress and
caring for yourself can have onyour body, and that many
caregivers can get sick. And I'mnot saying that your cancer is a
direct result, however, that weknow that chronic stress, and
(48:47):
you know certain hormones andchemicals in our body that free
flow because of this can impactyour immune system and ability
to fight off. It's just thefacts are out there. You're
unsure. You can email me andI'll send it to you, because I
can tell you that it's true andit's it's no difference in
people who have experiencedtrauma as children, and how this
(49:10):
can impact your life. And so,you know the thing is, is that,
would you say, let me ask youthis question, because we do
need to do sister questions. Dowe? Would you say that you were
mindful about keeping all ofyour appointments and taking
care of yourself during the timethat you are providing care up
(49:31):
until like I see this headnodding no for those who can't,
who can't or aren't watching onYouTube, no, no.
I constantly put my own youknow. I my my tank was getting
filled, you know, and I'll takeownership for it, you know. I,
my tank was getting filled,filling others and caring for
(49:53):
others. And I many of thisdoctor's appointment, you know.
I thought all my symptoms wererelated to menopause. I mean,
any girl,right? I mean one, I didn't end
up going, we could go intoanother podcast on menopause.
Well, I ended up getting mycomplete hysterectomy at the
(50:16):
time with the other so I, youknow, didn't have all those slow
side effects. What I wasexperiencing was all colorectal
cancer related, I believe, yeah,so no, to answer your question,
very, very honestly, I had notbeen good about any of that, and
we're all guilty of it. We'reall guilty. And even when my
children were little, you know,I was so diligent about making
(50:38):
sure they got to the doctor. Iwas so diligent about making
sure my mother and my, you know,my father follow through on
their appointments. And, youknow, getting Bob to to his and
my, you know, all of it.
And my grandmother had had anostomy. And, you know, this is
the other thing. Like, you know,why didn't that ever come up? My
grandmother had colorectalcancer in her, you know, late
(50:59):
80s, right? Like, ding, ding,ding, ding, ding. I'm not gonna
lie to you, we've had this.
We've said the same thing wehave, like, we always joke that
we have jacked up vaginas anduteruses and all that stuff. And
so it's true. But like, when,you know, JJ got sick, and then
we find out from our aunt thatother people in our family have
had, you know, issues, we'relike, Okay, where was everybody
(51:20):
talking about this on Sunday?
Like, can we not share somefamily medical history and just
pass that around, like we'repassing the tray or plate at
church? So like, like, I thinkthis is the other thing, and
it's one of those, like, we haveto be as families more diligent
about sharing kind oflongitudinal medical history,
(51:42):
like generational medicalhistory, because I think that's
important to say, if we have ahistory of it, and some things
like, I know your dad hasParkinson's, and that net does
not necessarily, it's not provento be genetic that I'm aware of,
but, but there's we also don'tknow as much as we need to know.
And so the more that we knowabout our past medical history,
(52:04):
including our both sides of thefamily and people who have had
things, the more that it allowsyou to be more aware and have an
awareness for signs and symptomsthat allow you to do more
prevention. And where iseverybody's guilty of it? Girl,
well, and I knew my grandmotherhad an ostomy. I mean, I was
part of, you know, I knew thatthat had happened, but, you
(52:24):
know, once again, I was in my20s, and I also wasn't putting
myself first. So I didn't, Ididn't, once again, didn't
advocate for myself. And it tookthis diagnosis for me to
advocate for myself and continueto Jay, we're gonna jump into
sister questions. I feel like,for all of our friends in UK,
(52:45):
health radio, I've been writingmine down, so I have to pick
one. Okay, yeah, I waswondering, any of you are over
there shopping on Amazon, orwhat she looks down? I'm like,
what my menopause means? I can'tremember anything, so I have to
write everything down. I'm like,Okay, this was a question, and
then, because I'd get to sisterquestions, question, be like,
what was my question? So myquestion is, I know that
(53:07):
everyone has to have a rock or asource of, I guess, energy and
something that really bringsthem back to center. And I
continue to hear and even readyour bio, that your source is
your faith, which is for me,incredibly important. Can you
just, can you just share alittle bit about that and just
(53:29):
tell me something that you wouldwant to share about why that is
so important you would sharewith our audience.
For me havingGod and Jesus as my higher power
freed me from my need tocontrol.
It allowed me to focus ongratitude, which I do believe
(53:54):
was a huge part of my healing. Ispent intentionally even on the
most difficult of days, I wouldsay three gratitudes. I
remember, especially, you know,being grateful for the first for
the person who thought of anostomy, for the first person
that allowed somebody to do anostomy, for chemo, for the for
(54:14):
every human I encountered on myway to the appointments. So
gratitude in combination with,you know, being expressing that
specifically to my higher powerwas was trained, really carries
me through each day. And I amvery intentional now. And
(54:34):
tonight is our night. EveryTuesday night, my we do yoga,
and we do it together as afamily. We zoom in. We have, I
have a dear friend of mine who Imet through the Parkinson's
support group in in Lynchburg,and she comes to our house, and
we any kids that are availableat my my son in laws or my
daughter in law, they everybodyjoins in by zoom and we do a
(54:55):
family yoga, which rejuvenatesit gets me to focus.
And to remember to breathe. Andthen I try to incorporate that
in my, you know, I'm sure I'mshowing up at Jennifer's house
tonight. She has, no,yes, she it won't be awkward.
She's, I mean, she's our Myoldest is actually, you know,
they joke that she's now theolder sister that my oldest had
(55:17):
always wanted.
I love that idea that isprobably one of the most unique
connecting relationship selfcare,
joint like congregate, self careor not even we're not going to
the movies, our family we'regoing to yoga.
(55:37):
Yoga. We're doing family yoga.
It's family night. We're doingyoga. It's not game night. We're
doing yoga. I think that'sprobably one of the most awesome
Jay you get. Do you have onemore question that you want to
make? I want to know I'm good.
I'm good. She didn't answerseveral events. I'm going to
tell you. I feel like she justtold us what her guilty pleasure
was, although that's not aguilty pleasure. Always into
every podcast with what is yourfavorite guilty pleasure? What
(55:58):
is the one thing that you dojust for you? Because this
family thing, I'm digging that awhole, whole lot weird. Well,
I'll tell you a new guiltypleasure. Oh, ready. It's a new
one to me,and I would have never thought
that I love it as much as I do.
But thehot, polar and cold plunge. Have
you ever have you heard of doneyoga? But there's, there's a
(56:21):
local place in in Lynchburg thatyou go in and you do the sauna
for 15 minutes, and then you getinto 52 degree, yeah, water for
up to three and then you go backto the sauna, and then go back,
and you go back and forth andback and forth. They bring you
hot tea in between. And let metell you, the first time I did
it, I could only do a minute inbut it but the breathing from
(56:44):
yoga helps, because it's throughthat breathing that you can
tolerate. But I've now gotten upto where I can do the three
minutes in the coldest tub, andthen do the 15 minutes in the
hot sauna, and then go back andforth. And there's another thing
that my my children, when theycome in town, that that we do
together. But it does somethingto my endorphins. It's so that's
(57:06):
my new guilty pleasure. I'mgoing to tell you right now, if
you think about athletes getinto cold baths and they do
something very similar. Becausewhat it does is it talks about,
I know that this is likeregenerating for your body, and
that it is actually so good. AndJay, I think we should go to
Lynchburg and do this. Yes,come. I think this is a I think
that I'm gonna attend the yogaclass. I'm not sure about that
(57:29):
cold thing I would do the cold,the cold bath. I would do it.
Okay, the next time I'm inLynchburg, I'm calling you
Jennifer. I'm willing to do it.
Natalie, if we do it, though, wehave to video because,
oh yeah, oh yeah. It's, it is,it is so rejuvenating. And I'm
actually going to be doing itthis weekend. Oh, so it's about,
(57:52):
I do about I've it's not becomecommitted to a certain amount of
time, but it just so happensthat I'm at least doing it once
a month. So, oh, that's likegetting once a month. So now I'm
taking the plunge once a month.
You know, I'm gonna check andsee if they've got something in
Roanoke. They got to, becausethis is really cool. But I'm
gonna, I'm gonna tell you,Jennifer, what a blessing you
have been. Thank you so much.
(58:14):
Your story is just, it's soinspiring. And your words of
wisdom. I know we could talkeven more. We didn't even get to
talking about you're currentlycaring for your dad and
supporting your mom, like in thesense of supporting the family
with your dad with Parkinson's.
And I saw a lot of stuff. We'regoing to have Jennifer's
information in the show notes,so you definitely want to follow
(58:35):
along with some of her journeyand learn more about bright
star, guys. She is a fantasticresource when it comes to
understanding home care. So I'mgoing to tell you right now, she
is an amazing human being. I wasprivileged to get to sit on a
panel right next to her, whichis clearly why she's now my
bestie and not JJ and but shecan be JJ, bestie. But thanks so
(58:58):
much, Jennifer, being with us. Ireally, really appreciate it.
Well, thank you for having me.
It's been a pleasure. All right,Jayden,
well, absolutely Thank you,Jennifer, and until we confess
again, we'll see you next time,bye, bye.
(59:18):
Well, friends, that's a wrap onthis week's confession again.
Thank you so much for listening.
But before you go, please take amoment to leave us a review and
tell your friends about theconfessions podcast. Don't
forget to visit our website tosign up for our newsletter.
You'll also find the videorecording of all of our episodes
on the confessions website andour YouTube channel. Don't
(59:40):
worry, all the details areincluded in the show notes
below. We'll see you nextTuesday when we come together to
confess again. Till then, takecare of you.
Okay, let's talk disclaimers.
You may be surprised to findout, but we are.
Not medical professionals andare not providing any medical
(01:00:03):
advice. If you have any medicalquestions, we recommend that you
talk with a medical professionalof your choice. As always, my
sisters and I, at Confessions ofa reluctant caregiver, have
taken care in selectingspeakers, but the opinions of
our speakers are theirs alone.
The views and opinions stated inthis podcast are solely those of
the contributors and notnecessarily those of our
(01:00:27):
distributors or hosting company.
This podcast is copyrighted andno part can be reproduced
without the express writtenconsent of the sisterhood of
care LLC, thank you forlistening to the confessions of
our reluctant caregiver podcast.
Popular Podcasts
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
My Favorite Murder is a true crime comedy podcast hosted by Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark. Each week, Karen and Georgia share compelling true crimes and hometown stories from friends and listeners. Since MFM launched in January of 2016, Karen and Georgia have shared their lifelong interest in true crime and have covered stories of infamous serial killers like the Night Stalker, mysterious cold cases, captivating cults, incredible survivor stories and important events from history like the Tulsa race massacre of 1921. My Favorite Murder is part of the Exactly Right podcast network that provides a platform for bold, creative voices to bring to life provocative, entertaining and relatable stories for audiences everywhere. The Exactly Right roster of podcasts covers a variety of topics including historic true crime, comedic interviews and news, science, pop culture and more. Podcasts on the network include Buried Bones with Kate Winkler Dawson and Paul Holes, That's Messed Up: An SVU Podcast, This Podcast Will Kill You, Bananas and more.
24/7 News: The Latest
The latest news in 4 minutes updated every hour, every day.
Dateline NBC
Current and classic episodes, featuring compelling true-crime mysteries, powerful documentaries and in-depth investigations. Follow now to get the latest episodes of Dateline NBC completely free, or subscribe to Dateline Premium for ad-free listening and exclusive bonus content: DatelinePremium.com