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September 23, 2025 60 mins

With a lifelong passion for nursing, Donna Steigleder’s journey began in her childhood and evolved into a career in healthcare, where she gained a wealth of experience across various medical settings. Her personal caregiving story started early, as she recognized and advocated for her daughter’s mental health needs at a time when such issues were often dismissed. Despite resistance from family and medical professionals, Donna’s persistence ensured her daughter received the care she needed, ultimately enabling her to thrive as an adult and nurse herself.

Donna’s caregiving responsibilities expanded over the years, encompassing her first husband, who struggled with denial about his MS diagnosis, and later her mother, who battled cancer. Balancing full-time work, Donna managed complex medical care at home, often feeling isolated and emotionally compartmentalized to cope with the relentless demands. Her experience as a director of employee relations gave her unique insight into the challenges working caregivers face, and she advocated for flexibility and support within her organization.

Recognizing the lack of accessible resources for caregivers, Donna created the “Healthcare to Home Care” website, a comprehensive hub for practical information and community connections. She also launched the “Compassion Mission” initiative, encouraging churches to support caregivers and those in need within their congregations. Donna’s story is not only one of personal sacrifice and strength but also of transforming her experiences into resources and advocacy to uplift others navigating the caregiving journey.

About Donna:

Donna Steigleder, a native of Henry, Virginia, began her career with a passion for writing and leadership, graduating in the top 1% of her high school class. After earning her nursing diploma, she obtained her Bachelor of Science in Nursing. Her first job as a nurse clinician provided a broad range of experience, leading to her promotion to Director of Human Resources. After a divorce, she became a single mother and took on a second job to support her family. Following her marriage to Lynn Steigleder in 1997, she transitioned to working from home to care for him while continuing her HR duties until her retirement in 2018. Now retired, Donna has combined her personal caregiving experience with her professional healthcare background to create Healthcare to Homecare, a website offering resources for family caregivers. She is also an advocate for churches to provide support to the sick and needy in their communities.


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Transcript

Episode Transcript

Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Natalie (00:03):
Hey guys, it's your favorite sisters with the
Confessions of a reluctantcaregiver. Podcast. On the show,
you'll hear caregiversconfessing the good, the bad and
the completely unexpected.
You're guaranteed to relate, beinspired. Lead with helpful tips
and resources, and, of course,laugh. Now let's get to today's
confession. Hey, Jay,

Unknown (00:30):
hi, Natalie, how are you doing this morning? I'm
delightful. And how are you I'mjust

Natalie (00:37):
swimming right along. I am here with my bestie, who I've
met, and who actually came tothe caregivers playbook series
that we have, and that's how webecame best friends, not in an
airport, not randomly on thestreet, came to a training that
we did, and shared a lot of ourexperience. And she has

(00:57):
resources. And so this is goingto be jam packed, and Donna has
been my best friend for months.

Unknown (01:03):
I just, I need to say this something, Donna, if, if
you could just tell her she'snot your best friend, but if you
could be best friends with me,because she steals all my
friends, all of them she saysthey're my best

Natalie (01:14):
friends. And today's her birthday, Donna, so JJ, has
no friends, my best friend.

Unknown (01:21):
JJ, my birthday is on Thursday.

Natalie (01:27):
She's an August baby, yes, oh, thank you. You're gonna
have to read the newsletter,because the August newsletter.
JJ, wrote, which was great. Imean, even though I harass her,
she's really great writer. Andso we are family, our family,
our extended family, is a monthof August, babies and so and so.

(01:48):
There's photos of the merry goround and the and it was the
Merida bread truck merry goround. And we were riding horses
when we were little. And butwe've got birthdays on 5689,
1115, it's crazy. Two on 15.

Unknown (02:09):
Yeah, August is our month. I'm going to tell you a
little bit about Donna so we canget started on the snack.
Because, like you said, She's dowhat you want, of resources.
Back off. Is my birthday. Okay?
Give me some candles. All right,guys, today we have with us
Donna stag letter and guys, shehas a long history in the
medical field and humanresources, but her caregiving

(02:30):
history, I feel like right nowthat has that's taken her down a
completely different path inlife, and she's got a lot of
stuff to share with us. She'scared for her first child,
Sarah, a spouse her mother andcurrently her father. And she is
an amazing advocate, and she'son a mission to change the
caregiving landscape. She's gota website that has all kinds of

(02:53):
resources, and she's also got,she's got to focus on, I think,
faith and how the church shouldcome in and really help people
that are ailing and are in needof care. So Donna, we are so
happy to have you here with ustoday.
Yay. Thank you very much.

Natalie (03:11):
Well, and it's so funny because I was telling Donna Jay
when we started. And so for ourlisteners out there, I was
telling Donna that, you know,normally I start with start from
the beginning, but the realityis, is Donna has so much care. I
even said, and Donna, spoileralert, is a registered nurse, so
she's an RN, she's worked in thehealthcare field, and so I use

(03:33):
the word episodic. She's hadvery numerous episodes of
caregiving. And I really want tomake sure that we have that time
to talk about those experiences,what she learned from it, and
build on it. So I'm going tostart a little bit different.
I'm going to ask Donna to tellus, give us some background
around your give us yourbackground. And then let's talk

(03:55):
about where care really startedentering because care entered
your world early on, and you'vebeen caring for people, both as
a paid and unpaid familycaregiver, feels like your whole
life. So why don't you give ussome backstory?

Unknown (04:10):
Well, I would say I have been caring for people all
my life. As a child, I wanted tobe a nurse, and my cousins even
started using me to be a nurse,but before I was ever trained,
so I started well rose, raisedin southwest Virginia, close to
run it, close to where you guysare, and a little place called

(04:32):
Henry, Virginia, FranklinCounty, moonshine, capital of
the world. Had two brothers andmy parents and the whole
community was all related to oneanother, so we all knew one
another. I went to school,nursing school at it was
Carilion hospital. Now it wasRoanoke Memorial Hospital. Then
got my diploma, then moved on toMCV hospital, then, which is now

(04:56):
VCU health system. Now one. Igraduated from there, I went
into a small hospital calledMetropolitan Hospital, and that
place taught me everything. Oneof those jobs where I was the
jack of all trades, learnedbackground in all types of

(05:16):
nursing care, and I believegoing through that process,
being exposed to all of thosetypes of nursing. God had a
pathway for me to create a wayof learning a lot of different
being exposed to a lot ofdifferent nursing types of ways
in preparing me for what was tocome in my life. Through that

(05:39):
process, I also became an EMTworking for a rescue squad, and
that's where I met my firsthusband. He was looking for a
wife, called in, looking forsomeone to marry. Turned out we
were on the same Rescue Squad,

Natalie (05:53):
and terribly convenient, I'm going to tell
you right now. That's terriblyconvenient.

Unknown (05:56):
It was terribly convenient. Also, I don't
believe in coincidences, Imarried him. Had my first child,
Sarah. Sarah had a let's say shehad a medical condition that I
recognized. But those days,children did not be were not
recognized as having mentalhealth problems. But because of
my nursing degree, because mynursing background, I saw that

(06:19):
she had mental health problems.
The family did not want me tosee that, and so therefore
refused to have care for her.
But I knew, I knew about it, Irecognized it, and so I treated
her throughout her life for themedical condition she had. It
was very difficult, verychallenging, but I gave her the
resources through me that sheneeded, and got her the help

(06:40):
that she needed, and even anyonego ahead?

Natalie (06:43):
No, I'm totally an Interrupting cow, and I
apologize for that. You know, Iknow that you I'm looking at
some of my notes. I know thatyou taught that she was
identified as a failure tothrive. And we talked a little
bit about this beforehand,because so many people don't see
one. Don't see parents as withchildren with special needs or

(07:04):
different abilities ascaregivers and working that dual
role. And so that's, I thinkthat's really important. But
additionally, in addition, youmentioned her mental health
issues, and a lot of peopledon't think about caregivers as
being providing care to someonewith a serious mental illness or

(07:25):
someone with a substance usedisorder. Most people think
about caregiving related toaging, disabled, chronic
illness, complex illness, likecancer, Alzheimer's, you know,
that sort of thing. I'm reallyglad that you mentioned that,
because your care started earlywith her,

Unknown (07:43):
it did at three years old. At three years old, yes, at
three years old, she developedher mental health condition more
so than the failure to thrive.
She was never actually diagnosedwith failure to thrive, but I
recognize that that was a partof her problem. She had other
medical conditions that werethere that we never got
diagnosed, but contributed tomental health problems. But at

(08:05):
three years old, she developedthe signs that she had she ended
up with a mental healthcondition of obsessive
compulsive disorder, a primaryphobia and a pseudo maturity
problem that from three yearsold on through her rest of her
life, she's had to cope with,and it was only because I helped
her identify that and help gether treatment that she managed

(08:29):
to grow and develop. She's now aregistered nurse. Has she? She
got through nursing school, shenow she had to leave nursing
because of her own two childrenwho are now autistic. She is at
home. She is raising themherself. At home, special needs
children, teaching them herself.

(08:50):
She is awesome and has developedsome own additional medical
problems, but she is thrivingand able to manage on her own.
And again, she's just beenphenomenal,

Natalie (09:04):
yeah, you know. And I think this is so important,
Donna, because I think whenpeople think of a mental health
diagnosis, especially somethinglike an obsessive compulsive
disorder, I know that she hadsome anxiety. She was very you
mentioned that she was anxious,she was had sleep issues, and
you think about how thosechronic, persistent types of

(09:26):
symptoms can have a negativeimpact on your medical your
overall physical health, as wellas your mental health, you know,
for her to be able to thrive anddo well, really is a testament
to your commitment to workingwith her, but you also mentioned
that your husband, at the time,was not supportive of seeking

(09:48):
out care for her in that in thattype of care, because I want to
be very clear, he wasn't sayingshe didn't deserve medical care.
But there's a lot of stigmaaround mental health,
absolutely, and I can imagine.
And so what that was like foryou? Yeah, he

Unknown (10:02):
did not want her to be labeled as having a mental
health problem. Yeah, he wasvery concerned that she would
get a label and would be, youknow, the labels that came with
the terms of mental health atthat point, that's one day, when
she was eight, she pulled aknife out of a drawer and put it
to her wrist. This, I don'treally like this anymore. And at

(10:22):
that point I said, I don't carewhat you do. I don't care if you
leave me or what you're going todo. She's going into treatment,
yeah, and that's when, that'swhen I saw a counselor and got
her on medication, because atthat point, it didn't matter
what she got labeled or not tome,

Natalie (10:37):
yeah, I think that's so important for people to remember
and and because at the same timethat you're trying to manage a
child that is really high needs,and a spouse and any other
individuals in your life thatmay have disagreed with your
course of treatment, you'reyou're working And you're and

(11:00):
you're trying to juggle lots ofballs, like very like so many
caregivers, I can only imaginethat being really stressful.

Unknown (11:08):
It was extremely stressful because her school
would call me every day she wascrawling under the table, hiding
and afraid to come out, and theschool nurse would call me and
say, Please talk her out. Ohyeah, it was terrible for her.
She had a terrible, terribletime trying to cope, until I was

(11:28):
able to get her to do sometreatment

Natalie (11:31):
well and and, you know, I know that that you said that
in your also that you, youultimately got divorced from
him, from him. Was it? Do youthink it was that misalignment
of not that that led to strifeand really kind of led you down
a different path? Because it'snot uncommon.

Unknown (11:50):
A lot of it did. It wasn't just that. It was other
things, but right for a longtime, he believed that she was
faking it, and did not reallybelieve that she had these the
severity of her condition thatshe had, and she felt that I was
coddling her a lot of the thingsthat she was saying that she had

(12:11):
as problems. She didn't that.
She was just looking forattention, but her condition
created a lot of dysfunction inour family, and our son did not
get the attention he needed,because I had to spend so much
time with her. So we had a lotof dysfunction as a result of
it. It was very difficultbecause he really didn't support
didn't support us, and so it wasand our pediatrician did not

(12:36):
support us. He did not believethat she had a problem. He felt
that I needed to be more strictin making her face her phobia
and didn't go along with theissues that she had, because,
again, children did not havemental health problems in that
in that era of time.

Natalie (12:54):
That goes back to a behavioral model for those
social workers and people who'veworked in the field. It's a
behavioral mindset versus traumainformed kind of mindset? Yeah,
Jay,

Unknown (13:06):
but I just think it's, it's so interesting to see, even
back then, you know, how evermany years it was ago, Donna,
when caregivers are actuallyhaving to fight, yeah, for care,
yeah. And without youadvocating, you know, you're
advocating then, and probablynot even recognizing it
yourself. You know that that waseven the word,
yeah, oh, I knew I was fighting,I've been fighting health care

(13:29):
since the beginning.

Natalie (13:31):
Well, and it's, and, you know? And I think, you know,
I think if we're just honestabout it, it's also, you're a
woman, but you're, but you're aneducated woman at the time. If
we think back to probably, Howold's your daughter now, I'm
going to date

Unknown (13:45):
you a little bit. She is almost 40. Yeah.

Natalie (13:49):
So if you think about 40 years ago, and you think
about, you know, the voices andwomen having more voice in care,
I mean, we already struggleenough, already when we go to
the physicians. We did a DRMeital, and I did a training on
caregivers as part of themedical team at an A post
conference. And it wasinteresting, because we talk

(14:13):
about the wallpaper phenomenonand about how caregivers can end
up being like the wallpaper inthe room, and they're not, they
don't come to the forefront. Andso don I'm sure that you've
experienced that a number oftimes, and you're in the medical
profession, so I think that'sreally important.

Unknown (14:31):
Absolutely, sometimes I try to make me be the wallpaper,
but I learned how not to be.

Natalie (14:37):
Yeah, you're like, I'm not getting sticky today.
People, I'm not getting sticky.
You know what? This is a perfectbreak, because we're going to
jump into the next caregiving.
This is I'm telling you, people,she has got JAM PACKED care, but
I'm going to take a break realquick so our sponsors don't get
mad at us, and we'll be rightback

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(15:16):
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Alright, everybody, we are backhere with Donna stagler, so
we've gone through care of herdaughter, Sarah, who is doing

(15:36):
well now, and we're so glad forthat. You are a single mom. You
are working and but you do, youknow, I hear this, you are
working first of all, as youknow you but you come into
another stage in life. Let'stalk about that and your next
caregiving, as Natalie says, youknow you're, I guess the layer

(15:57):
I'm seeing you as, like thislayer cake, but these layers are
weighing you down. You're kindof like an apple stack cake but,
but tell me about your next howlife progresses,
right? Well, after I got adivorce, I was working as a
actually, two jobs, very busy,taking care of Sarah, managing
everything that was going home,and my friends at work

(16:18):
encouraged me to answer apersonal ad, and I did, and
that's how I met my secondhusband.

Natalie (16:25):
I feel like I need to start singing if you like pina
coladas. I mean, I know whatthat one's about, and it's not
the same. But I'm gonna tell youmet my first husband on Hotmail.
When they have checks. I'm gonnatell you the personals on
Hotmail that tells you how old Iam, Donna, I'm telling you,

Unknown (16:42):
well, I met mine for a Style magazine. Oh, I love it.
Okay, that's how we met andstarted dating, got married,
okay? And so first eight years,didn't really notice anything,
but he had told me that hisfather had died of ms, so I knew
he had a background, a medicalbackground, that could lead to

(17:04):
multiple sclerosis. Eventually,he said he is a total denial.
Person wears per red, you know,the rose colored glasses.
Everything's always good andmagical thinking. He never
noticed that he had any MSsymptoms. I noticed he had MS
symptoms shortly after we gotmarried, and I identified that

(17:28):
to him, and I said, you know,have you talked to your doctor
about the fact that you've gotfoot drop? Have you talked to
your doctor about the fact thatyou stumble a lot? Oh, no, no,
that's not anything related toMs. I don't have, MS, he had.
Ms, surely, I knew he did, buthe was in total denial. That

(17:50):
point, Sarah had also graduatedfrom nursing school, and she
said to me one afternoon,because she was still living up,
Mom, you know that? You knowthat Lynn's got MS, and yes, oh,
he absolutely does, but there'sno way that he's he's ready to
recognize that yet, and so we'rejust going to have to wait until
he's ready. Well, one night, Iwalked into the bedroom and he
had his two finger two handspointed at each other, and he

(18:13):
was wiggling both sets offingers, except one set of
fingers was going much slowerthan the other. And so what's
that? What are you doing? And hesaid, Well, I was just testing
my hands. I said, well, one setof fingers are significantly
slower than the other. And hesaid, I said, What's that about?

(18:34):
I said, How long has that beengoing on? He said, I've been
Yeah, let's go on for a while. Isaid, Well, you've got a
problem, and we need to talkabout it. And he said, Oh well,
no, we don't. I said, Oh yes, wedo. And I said, when's your next
doctor's appointment? And hesaid, Well, I said, we're going
to the cardiologist tomorrow. Isaid, before we're there, we

(18:57):
need to talk about that. I said,you I knew I couldn't mention
anything about Ms. I said yougot slipped disc somewhere, and
it's affecting the upper part ofyour body. We need to go talk to
somebody about the slip disc.

Natalie (19:10):
Okay, that's nice. I like that little it's not a
white lie, because it stillcould be a true statement.

Unknown (19:18):
It's a neuro something somewhere, but it's not Ms, go
talk to the cardiologisttomorrow. While we're there,
we'll mention it and see whatwhat he might think. Okay. He
always had me go with him to hiscardiology appointments because
he had a mitral valve prolapse,and he's scared to death of his
heart problems. So I always wentwith that. It was okay with
that. So while we were there atthe cardiologist appointment at

(19:41):
the end of it being I worked atMCV. Been working there for many
years. I had friends everywherethere, right? But I was in a
high position at MCV, and I kneweverybody. So how's there?
Finished the cardiologyappointment, and Dr V said,
Everything okay? I said,everything's fine. With his
heart, but he has this problemgoing on with his hands. He

(20:05):
needs to see a neurosurgeon,because he might have a slipped
disc, and he did not know. Needa Kristen neurosurgeon. I needed
to get him into neurologysomewhere. I said, Can you get
an important move with Dr so?
And said, he said, Oh, yeah. AndLynn sitting there, going, What?
What? What are you doing? And hesaid, I don't need to say, Yeah,
either. And I told that todaythe symptoms, I would say, Oh

(20:27):
yeah, you need to go see so. Andso he picked up a phone call and
got an appointment for the nextday. And when we walked out
there, he says, What did youjust do? I said, you need to see
someone about the fingers, andwe're going to take care of it
now.

Natalie (20:43):
People just hit the time Donna, oh, he

Unknown (20:46):
was probably, at that point, he was probably his 40s.

Natalie (20:51):
Yeah, a friend of mine has MS, and she, she firmly
believes she got first symptomswere in her 20s. Yeah, and, and,
and it's interesting how you hadto really kind of insert
yourself to say it's time,because you've been watching
this for eight years. You'vebeen watching this kind of go

(21:11):
on. And I can imagine, because Iknow how I feel with my husband,
and I'm sure JJ feels with herhusband the majority of her time
is you just want to kill him alittle bit. And like, I'm
watching you do things thatyou're either not responding to
your taking care of your medicalneeds. And I, I know I get

(21:32):
frustrated when I can't like,when I'm like, You're not going
to take care of this, but Idon't like, I told my husband,
you can't complain about achesand pains and do nothing about
it. Yeah, like, I know thatsounds really mean, but I'm
really kind of a bootstrapsocial worker, so I don't know
about how you felt about that.

Unknown (21:50):
Well, I knew his dad died when he was 49 and I knew
he was in total denial and hewasn't going to do anything
about it. And it was ridiculous.
So we went to see the guy, theneurosurgeon guy. He listened to
him, talked to him. He says, Yougot a mess. He said, Okay. I
said. He says, it's just somepictures, I'm pretty sure, but

(22:14):
let's do some pictures toconfirm it. Set him up for the
MRI. He said, You really needneurology. You don't need me. He
said, I don't think this is adisc, but we'll look, we'll roll
it out. Let's do the MS. Hepicked up right away on the
denial piece, and he I'm lookingat him, going, Yeah,

Natalie (22:34):
Dawn is winking for our listeners. I'm

Unknown (22:36):
saying behind. I'm saying behind. Glenn, going,
Yeah, thumbs up and stuff. Youknow what's going on here? So
we're setting up MRI. He put himover to the neurology called it
happens to be down the hallwaycalled in. The neurologist says,
Hey, let me introduce you toLynn. This is friend of Donna's.
You know he's her husband, blah,blah, blah again, because I know

(22:59):
everybody pull them in. Let'sget it going. Thank God I work
there and so. And in fact, I'msure God set this all up, pull
him in, set it all up, got theMRI going. And Dr the
neurologist, set him up for alumbar, a lumbar puncture. So we
had it all set up. And Lizagain, looking at me like he

(23:20):
could shoot nails at me. So weset it up, got the MRI set up,
got the lumbar puncture set up,and was right at the time of our
annual anniversary trip. Got itall set up, and we had the
lumbar puncture done, had theMRI done, went on our annual
anniversary trip, on the annualanniversary trip. I mean, gosh,

(23:43):
it was no way he could keepdenying it. I don't you know, it
was one of those elephant in theroom trips, you know, yeah, who
would go fishing by the end ofthe day, he was walking bent
over at a 90 degree angle. Hewas so bad. I mean, he it is
just no way in my mind youshould deny it. And it was

(24:05):
definitely he had to have knownthe results coming in. And I
would say, you want to talkabout it. You want to talk about
what the results are going tobe.

Natalie (24:14):
Nope. That's tough, though, because if you see your
own parent pass late 40s, youfeel like you have this, this
thing in your body that isultimately a death sentence. Yet
I say this respectfully, we'reall gonna die at some point. But
the problem with chronic illnesslike MS, ALS, that sort of

(24:36):
thing, Parkinson's even, is isthere is no there's no cure.
It's so much more real than Ithink in general,

Unknown (24:45):
he had such fear. His father went from a robust
Carpenter, man who could doanything, play guitar like a
like a Angel, to a man whobecame totally disabled and.
Able to do anything at all, sodepressed that he couldn't,
didn't want to live and die of aurinary tract infection in front

(25:09):
of him. Lynn could not even gosay goodbye to him when he died.

Natalie (25:14):
Yeah, you know, that's part of it too, though, if you
think about it, Donna, it's somany unresolved things and so
and if you, and really, if youthink about it, and this is, you
know, I spoke to a friend ofmine last night whose husband's
been on hospice. He's had cancerfor 15 years in his and her has,
he's been on hospice for a year,and it's just there feels to be
this similar, like, I don't wantto acknowledge it. I don't want

(25:37):
to do this. And as a caregiver,I'm just going to come back to
you, I mean, because we weretalking about how he's feeling,
but I want to talk about howyou're feeling during this time.

Unknown (25:48):
I knew it was coming. I knew he was going to get the
news, and knew he was not goingto accept it. I knew his
philosophy was, if I acceptthat, I have MS, then I'm going
to go be like my dad. And so Iknew he was going to deny it,
because for him, that would be adeath sentence, yeah, and I knew

(26:09):
he was not going to accept it,and I knew that once he got the
news, it was all going to be onme, and I was angry that it was
going to be that way, and I washurt because he didn't trust me.
So I had all those emotions, andit hurt because I knew what was

(26:30):
going to happen too. I knew hewas probably going to progress
pretty quickly if he did havedisease like his father. I was
hopeful that they wouldn't havethe same kind of MS his dad had,
and that there might be a chancehe might not go that bad, but I
knew that chances are he wasgoing to be like his dad. So had

(26:50):
all these emotions goingthrough, and I wanted to talk to
him about it. I needed to talkto him about it. But Lynn was
someone who withheld himselffrom me. He was so protective.
He had been burned by his firstwife a lot, and he didn't really
trust he didn't really open up.
He kept everything inside. So Ireally didn't have the ability

(27:11):
to talk to him at all, and I wasangry and hurt and had all those
emotions going on inside. So Ireally felt totally alone when
and knew I was going to behandling this by myself. Wow.
And then Jamie, and while wewere driving home, he had, MS,

Natalie (27:34):
wow, I'm going to take a break real quick, because I
think this is the right spot forit. And then we're going to come
back because at the same time,and I want to ask you about the
kind of this similar timeframe,you get more care comes knocking
at your door again, so we'll beright back.

Unknown (27:53):
Care forward is a technology platform that
connects volunteers withseniors, the disabled and those
with chronic or complex healthconditions, offering support,
like transportation, home visitsand more details
online@careforward.ioAll right, everybody, we are
back here with Donna stagletter. There's a lot of care
that is come upon you. Excuseme. And so we're at this point

(28:15):
your husband, Lynn, has beendiagnosed with MS that comes in
when you're on your way backfrom your anniversary trip.
You're still working full time,right? And Natalie said you have
during this time as well. You'vegot another care that comes in
for you, another care at layer.
Episode, tell us a little bitabout that. What's going on

(28:37):
somethingseveral years after Liv was
diagnosed. He had alreadydeveloped quadriplegic. By that
point, he was unable to doanything for himself. He was had
neurogenic bowel bladder. Hecouldn't even move his hand to
position in bed. So I was stillworking full time. He I had a
person who came in to take careof him during the day, go into

(29:00):
work during the day. Well, mymother developed cancer. I was
talking to her one day on thephone, and she happened to
casually mention that somesymptoms that she was having and
she was had seen the doctor andthat she was expecting to get
results back from a CT scan. AndI said, You got what you your CT

(29:22):
scan. I mean, you had what done.
And as she was describing whatwas going on, I said, Send me
that CT scan results that youwere just telling me about. And
I read it, and I said, I calledthe boys, my two brothers, and I
said, Mom's going in to hearthese results on Monday. She's

(29:43):
got cancer. And I said, it'sgoing to be bad news. And Larry,
you need to be there with momand dad when they

Natalie (29:48):
get it. So were you a long distance? So where'd your
mom and dad live? And dad livedin Franklin County, so, and you
were up in Richmond at the time,in

Unknown (29:57):
Richmond, and I was at least, it's. It takes me about
four hours to get down there.
Yeah, my brother, my brother,was the only person that was in
30 minutes close to him. Youneed to be with them, and I need
to be on the phone when they getthe results, because they're not
going to understand what this isabout. And I need to be able to
be there to talk when they getit, because I'm the only ones

(30:18):
going to understand what's goingon. And you guys, this is what's
going to happen, and this iswhat they're going to say. So
but see the point? I got thatinformation in the before they
got to the doctor's office. Igot on the phone to call master
cancer. I knew the person whowas in charge there the clinics,
and I set up an appointment herewith an oncologist, and got
everything set up because I wasbringing her here, they had

(30:41):
totally missed the diagnosis.
Her doctor down there. So I gotsomeone set up here to see her,
and got plans for her to comehere. So when they got on the
phone, he gave her the diagnosisand said, I'm sorry I missed it.
I said, I thought to myself,yeah, you darn well did, and you

(31:02):
should Wow, a long time ago, hetotally, he totally blew it. And
he was saying, well, we'll getsomething set up at Roanoke for
you to go see somebody. And Ipopped in. I said, Nope. I said,
y'all coming to me. I said, Youneed somebody who's going to
help with the diagnosis and theinterpretation and the care. I
said, y'all are moving in withme.

Natalie (31:24):
So you didn't give your parents a choice. You were like,
it was two for one too, becauseit was your mom and your dad.
Like, you're coming to live withme. No questions asked. Good,
try. That's it.

Unknown (31:34):
Yep. And Lynn is you're working full time. Let's go
here. And Lynn is completelyimmobile. You're okay, yep, just
catching everybody up here thatwe got a lot going on.
Okay, yep, he's in the bed nextdoor, and I have a spare room
across the hall.
Well, how is work going? Areyour supervisors? Is everybody
really understanding? Oh,Donna's having a hard time.

(31:55):
Let's give her a break.
Well, no, they just go alongwith it. I just keep going and
they I just don't tell them,Okay, yeah, I tell my
supervisor, hey, this is goingon. I might be a little bit more
out, but I'll get it. I'll getmy work done.

Natalie (32:14):
Did you take intermittent FMLA by chance? I
did. Yeah, because you work, andyou worked. It's important. You
worked in HR, yes, related tofrom a training, like you were a
trainer?

Unknown (32:26):
No, well, I was the director of employee relations.
I wrote, yeah, policy,

Natalie (32:31):
exactly. So I think this is important to understand.
She knows the policies.

Unknown (32:36):
Yeah, I knew how it worked. I was willing to resolve
the conflicts and did thecomplaints when they came in. I
knew it, yeah, so I knew whatrights I had.

Natalie (32:47):
Yeah. Do you think at the time, though, and this is
not because this the realitiesdoesn't matter. It could be VCU
could be it's any employer inAmerica, respectfully, because I
think the employers that havecaregiver benefits are typically
by exception. At this point,they are not common. And would
you say that the hospital systemhad a good caregiver or a robust

(33:14):
caregiver benefit, or anenvironment or culture that
allowed for people to be able tofreely share that with
flexibility and that sort ofthing. No, I

Unknown (33:23):
was an exception. I was only allowed to do that because
I did it. Yeah, it was onlybecause I was a director and I
knew how to manage it. Yeah, andno other employees would have
been allowed to do that. Yeah,no, they were not open to a
regular employee would neverbeen allowed to do what I did.

Natalie (33:44):
Yeah, and I think that's important to Donna,
because I feel the same wayabout myself and my position.
Any other employee at thecompany I'd worked for would not
have had that flexibility,because we just didn't have it
built baked we didn't have itbaked in and Jay was only Jay
was fortunate, because she ownedher own business, and so her

(34:06):
being the boss now sometimes shehad conflict with herself.

Unknown (34:10):
Yeah, we were a healthcare facility. It was for
everybody to be on work at thetime. They needed to be there.
They didn't have thatflexibility. They didn't have
the staffing available forpeople to do what I did, only
management level people couldhave that flexibility so regular
staff wouldn't be able to do itonly PR you, they would have had
to have gone PRN and beenflexible to be able to do

(34:32):
something like that. Now we madeaccommodations for some to be
able to do that flexibility. Ihelped people whenever I could.
That was a one of my othercaregiver attachment roles. I
was very active in helpingemployees, whenever I could, to
make accommodations with familyissues. I was very active and my

(34:55):
staff was very active in doingthat.

Natalie (34:58):
I want to come back to that. I. I want to come back to
that because I have a I want towhen we do our sister questions,
Jay, I want to come back to aska question around advice that
you would give employees tospeaking to their employer
because you were, because youwere director of employee
relations. And here's the thing,most people would think, Oh,
you're in the healthcare field.
Of course, they would be muchmore accommodating, because we
understand we care. And theanswer is, is no, do not assume.

(35:19):
And so actually, I feel like attimes we're worse. And so
because, because we are tryingto care for everybody except
ourselves,

Unknown (35:31):
right? Absolutely, yeah. And plus, there's such a
need to be there all the time,yeah.

Natalie (35:37):
So your mom and dad move into your home you are
working and carrying your butt

Unknown (35:45):
off. Yep, yeah, my dad actually took care of my mom and
I oversaw their care together.
So whenever she'd have chemo, Iwould drive them downtown,
because of course, he wouldn'tknow how to maneuver to get
downtown, and I did all theinterpretation. I would go to
all the doctor's appointmentswith them, and I would be the

(36:05):
medical person. I spokemedicine. Nobody else speaks
medicine, so someone had to bethere to interpret and decide
what was going to be done. Andso if her port a cath needed to
be accessed, I would do the portde calf excess, you know, I
would do the wound care stuff,so the big stuff I took care of,
and otherwise, my dad did stuff,and we handled it that way.

(36:29):
Until she had surgery.
Everything was good. Cancer wasgood. She went home for a period
of time, and then when she cameback for her follow up. Cancer
was back and did chemo for oneone time, it knocked the heck
out of her, and we all decidedbefore she went back to the

(36:51):
doctor's appointment for thesecond round of chemo, it was
time to stop. And so we told thedoctor at that point we weren't
going to do any more. The doctorhad come in to say, I don't want
to do anymore. So we were all inagreement for her to go home on
hospice. Wow, so that's whathappened. She went home on
hospice. Lynn was in thehospital. I had called to talk

(37:15):
to her about how she was doing.
I could tell by the phone callshe was about to enter that
stage where the cancer was goingto block her intestine. And I
called rest of the family andsaid, if y'all want to have one
last hoorah with mom before shegets bad, do it this weekend,
because she's about to haveblockage. And they did. They got

(37:37):
all together, had a picnic. Momwas doing good. Sarah had told
me, she said mom had a reallybad leg. When we were down
there. It was really dark. Looksreally bad. And I'm assuming she
was getting a blockage inwhatever one of her blood
vessels at that time, becausethe next couple of days later,
she fell, and when she did, shenever woke up from that fall. I

(38:01):
think she threw a clot at thatpoint, and within 24 hours, she
was dead.

Natalie (38:08):
Wow. And you're, you know, you've, you cared for your
husband and all this going onwith your your mom, and, you
know, sometimes I think havingknowledge can be a blessing and
it can also be a curse. And Ican imagine because you knew
what was coming. I mean, you Youeven saw it, but you've, you

(38:32):
almost have, like, a littleforesight, kind of, in the sense
of, like you just because ofyour education, and you're like,
yeah, and you're, let me ask youthis, you're a nurse, and you're
used to dealing, and I know thatyou know you were in
administration for many years,many moons, but you still were
direct. You seem very even kill.
Do you think Did you ever havemoments where you were just

(38:54):
like, I am not going to be ableto take this. I'm just going to
walk out, I'm just going to goout and dissociate for a while
living my best Happy Land.

Unknown (39:04):
I totally disassociated most of my life. That's God gave
me a gift early on, and it wasdisassociation. I had the
ability the whole time I wastaking care of Lynn, I went into
a box. My emotions just wentinto a box, and it was the only
way I managed. But most of thetime I took care of Lynn, my

(39:27):
emotions were in a box, and Ididn't feel most of the time,
because the whole time I wastaking care of him, he could
have died at any minute. Most ofthe time he was so sick, I ran
an ICU out of my house. He hadpulmonary problems where he

(39:47):
would throw clot, pulmonaryclots, and I would have to
suction him immediately, or hewould stop breathing. His
pressure was such he had, youknow, he was a quad so. His
blood pressure go up to 220 over110 and I'd have it was this
reflection, and have stuff herewhere I had to bring his blood

(40:08):
pressure down, or he would havehis blood pressure drop so low,
60, over 40, and I had to bringit back up. So he would, you
know, I had I see you here well.

Natalie (40:20):
And here's a question, though, Donna, I'm gonna let JJ
talks in a second, because shetried to get in. It was super
cute. Did you feel like a wife,at like a daughter? Because I
hear you very medically. Theterminology and the description
is so clinical. Do you feel likeyou just went into your you put
on your nursing caregiver hatwith them, and that's why those

(40:42):
emotions go into a box. If youreally think about it, isn't
that trained. It's almost likefirefighters are trained not to
run away from fire.

Unknown (40:50):
I became a first responder more than a wife.
Yeah, yeah. There was verylittle time that became a wife
once he became so sick, therewas one time at night that I was
a wife and when I would feed himdinner, then I was a wife,
because they would watch TVtogether. And I got emotional

(41:11):
with this, because after hedied, I started bringing back my
emotions and working on bringingback on my emotions, but we
watched TV together every night,and he had to learn to watch
Hallmark movies with me.

Natalie (41:24):
I love that.

Unknown (41:28):
Watch Hallmark movies, and he got to learn to like
them, and I feed him dinner. Andwe spent an hour spent watching
the Hallmark movies together.
And that's that was our time

Natalie (41:39):
together. Oh, that's like, the precious time, yeah,

Unknown (41:43):
that was our time together, and that's the only
time we had as husband and wife,because, yeah, yeah, he couldn't
hug me. He couldn't we couldn'tdo anything, because he couldn't
touch you know, and he waspretty isolated. We could talk,
we could talk, but most of thetime I was busy. I worked from

(42:05):
seven o'clock in the morning to2am every day, I was only gonna
count constantly and and when,you know when I was sleeping, it
was light sleep, because I wasalways listening for what for
him to need something.

Natalie (42:20):
I already have the feeling I can already tell what
JJ is about to ask.

Unknown (42:24):
I'm still, I'm listening. I'm like, No, my
question got answered.

Natalie (42:28):
So well, no, but I'm thinking about Jay. I'm thinking
about she's like, not sleeping,working 7am to 2am basically
working all hours. Yeah, youtaking care of yourself?

Unknown (42:42):
Donna, no, never, yeah.
I told my doctor. My doctor toldme I had to quit working in 2018
or I was going to kill myself.
Wow, yeah.
Did you quit? Yeah? Okay, makingsure I was like, Yes, that was,
that was the year, yeah, Iretired in 2018 Wow.

Natalie (43:01):
And you know, but the reality is, is that you didn't
retire. You stopped one job andyou went whole hog more into the
next,

Unknown (43:12):
because covid hit, and I had no caregiver said, yeah,
there was nobody to hire,

Natalie (43:19):
yeah. And that's, I think you know. We know how
covid affected the healthcareindustry and all the workers
that you know mandated that tostay and had to do all kinds of
things. But we also know that somany people became caregivers
and started self identify ascaregivers during covid, and
because people needed care, andthat's when care, the word

(43:40):
itself, in my opinion, reallygot popular, need for care. How
do we care for one another anddifferent, using technology
differently. And so there wasthe silver lining of the of the
pandemic that allowed us toreally start seeing the roles of
family caregivers.

Unknown (43:57):
Now for us, it didn't change life much. We were
already isolated. We alreadyordered everything online. I had
my back of my house was awarehouse. It was I had a room
that was dedicated to supplies,because I couldn't run out. So I
had a room full of supplies,catheter supplies, women's

(44:19):
supplies. I had respiratorysupplies. I had a warehouse. The
delivery people came here almostevery other day. So I had a
house full of supplies. I hadmedical equipment for
everything, you know. So, youknow, when Lynn died, I got rid
of $18,000 worth of supplies andequipment, wow.

Natalie (44:38):
And, you know, it's so common, it's that that
caregivers have these items thatcan't be returned back. I mean,
that's one of the reasons westarted care forward, is to
really be able to connect peoplewho have items that are
perfectly fine, gently used,that, you know, chucks. I always
say, why are we throwing chucksaway? You just washing on
people. All you're going to dois pee on them. Everyday people.

(45:01):
I know we're at at the end ofour time. I didn't even bother
with Sister questions, because,I mean, there's so much here.
But here's the thing, I mean,we're going to go a little bit
longer. I want to say, though,in 2022 you talked about how,
you know, your dad moved in, andhe, he had, he started
developing congestive heartfailure, and he's and he's 92

(45:24):
and he's and he lives with you.
You're still caring for himbecause your mom has passed your
you, your daughter, yourdaughter has as an RN, but she
has special needs children, andI'm sure you probably help out a
little here and there, andbecause why wouldn't you? You're
you have a, really, a heart tocare and so life now is
different. And you're right.

(45:47):
He's mobile and he's active, buthe has, oh yeah,

Unknown (45:51):
yeah, I like that. He's a

Natalie (45:52):
spry 92 year old. He

Unknown (45:54):
is very like, this past week he was in the hospital,
yeah, because he had a littleepisode of congestive heart
failure. So you have to go takecare of. But, yeah, I have
caregivers to help me with him.

Natalie (46:06):
Yeah, yeah.

Unknown (46:07):
So my question, I guess, is, you've Lynn, passed,
and at what point, where haveyou? At what point have you
emotionally? You know, I knowyou've been this box where, what
has happened with you, Donna. Imean, have you what are the
ramifications that have occurredbecause of caregiving, like,

(46:27):
where is Donna?
For the last two years, sincehe's passed, Donna's been trying
to come out. I've saw acounselor because I had to work
on it. I had to learn how tocome out of the box. I had a lot
of anger, because the last placewhere he was a patient
essentially killed him becausethey didn't buy the right care

(46:49):
for him, and they ignoredeverything I had to say about
him, and did not provide him theadequate care he should have
had. So they caused his deathearly, and I've got them before
the board, and so it's nottotally over yet, but I needed,
I needed a lot to deal with. SoI've taken a course in post

(47:10):
traumatic stress syndrome. It'scalled reboot, and they helped
me a lot. I've taken griefshare. I needed that. I'm taking
it again, because I still needto do it twice, because that's
helping me to bring out somegrief that I still need to deal
with. I've got a counselor I'mtaking I have a hired a personal
trainer to help me deal with alot of physical things that I've

(47:33):
got going on.
You weren't exercising when allthis was going on. I didn't
have any time. I know absolutelyand having a lot of medical
appointments, because I got alot of medical conditions that
are going on, I wasn't eatingright, and because I wasn't
eating right, had a lot of foodsensitivities. I no longer have

(47:56):
any digestive enzymes at all inmy body. Wow. And I'm happy to
help rebuild those suggestiveenzymes. Wow, starting from
scratch. So I've had a lot ofmedical problems created as a
result of the time I devoted totaking care of him instead of
taking care of me.

Natalie (48:16):
Yeah, I think, you know, it's, it's like both
things can be true, and I thinkthat's the hardest things for
caregivers. I can tell from myown personal experience. I'm
sure Jay would say, would echoand raise her hand, is that you
get so focused on the otherperson, we really don't think
about ourselves. And people arelike, Oh, you're just saying
you're selfless. And I'm like,No, it's not about being

(48:37):
selfless. It is like when yourbrain only has so much space to
think about all the things thatneed to be done. You do not
typically come to the forefront.
And honestly, even peeingbecomes gets pushed back. You're
like, oh, because women arenotorious, and this is why we
get UTIs. Is that we pee toofast. We don't wait to get it
all out, as it are. And you knowthis, we don't eliminate the

(48:58):
bladder all the way. Welcome toa UTI, ladies, but we don't pee
when we need to pee.

Unknown (49:06):
I mean, Lynn could not move, and he would have times
where he could not breathe,yeah? So you hold it, yeah, you
wait, yeah, you put it off,yeah.

Natalie (49:16):
You know Donna. I know there are so many, and we're
going to put these in the shownotes, because Donna has a lot
of resources and comments onlike, breathe, be prepared to
conduct research. You know,doctors don't know everything
like and this is true, guys, I'mgoing to tell you, there's a
reason we went for a secondopinion. Had we not gone for a

(49:37):
second opinion and made our wayto New York, our life would be
very, very different. So secondopinions are your friend and
you're right, yes and you'reright, yes. You know Donna, I'm
gonna tell me about and again.
So many good nuggets in here.
She's like, I mean, I'm gonnatell you right now. There's at
least 10 that she gave us. Tellme about health care to home.

(50:00):
Care. Tell me about the website.

Unknown (50:02):
Yes, I created a website, and it's it's an
awesome resource. I reallyencourage people to look at it.
One of my problems when I first,Linda, first got diagnosed, was
trying to find resources, tryingto figure out what to do. You
would think I would know I'm anRN, but you don't. There's 1000s
of things. The questions thatyou need to find out health care

(50:24):
to Home Care is a website fullof links to different resources.
It's a way to link to differentgovernment resources, different
community resources, just placesthat you go to find answers
other things, but it's not justleaks. It's also, what do you do

(50:45):
when you go home from the pointof discharge? How do you think
about getting in the front door?
How do you figure out what todo? What materials do you do
need to do? To do wound care?
Because when home health comesto your house, they don't tell
you what to do anymore. They'vegot paperwork to fill out. So
they don't teach you anythinganymore. Yeah, they do nothing

(51:07):
for you anymore. So it's how todo things and links to show you
on YouTube how to get it done,because they you can find
anything on YouTube anymore ifyou know what the words are, but
you don't know what words areanymore.

Natalie (51:22):
That's and that's true, Donna, yeah, it's knowing the
right words. And we always say,I'm like, for caregivers. When
you're searching for resources,put the word caregiver in there,
and you will be shocked atwhat's comes up. But it's really
hard, because, you know, Donna,there's so many things out
there, and it's hard to knowwhat to is a reliable resource.
And I will tell you, when Donnaand I met on the caregivers

(51:44):
playbook, I went to her website,and Donna's website is on our
resource list, so healthcare tohome care, or home care.com is
on our on our resource list, onour website, along with others.
But I grabbed so many greatresources from her website to
even add into our ResourceGuide. And that's the thing is,

(52:08):
what are reliable, reputablesites that give you good
information to help you besuccessful?

Unknown (52:15):
And I've also added something new to it recently. We
just upgraded, we just opened itback up this past week is a a
mission called compassionmission, yeah, and that is to,
I'm going to be sending it outto churches in the area. Health
care is now sending everybodyhome, yeah, sending everybody
out before they're ready toheal. Churches usually know who

(52:38):
those people are, and so I'msending it out to churches and
encouraging them to startcompassion missions within their
their churches. And what it isis to teach them how to learn
how to connect to people intheir churches, to help them
find resources within theirchurch, to help people, to help

(52:58):
them identify who needs a rideto doctor's appointments. How to
connect them to just checking inon their congregation, to see
Are you okay? Are you doing allright? To even divorce families
dads. Do you need to learn howto cook? Because you now are
broken? I have broken family orcaregivers? Do you need a

(53:21):
caregiver support group? Andhere's where you can find one.
And how to set up those littlecongregational things that you
need within your own church. AndI've set up different little
programs for them to follow.
Here's how you set up theseprograms in your church. Because
you are the you're the newcommunity. There are no
communities anymore. There aresingle units now in families,

(53:42):
and they're they don't haveextended people to come help
them. There are single familyunits, their grandmas and
grandpas and houses bythemselves, and the kids have
gone off somewhere. Kids todaydon't feel unified. To come back
to the families to take care ofthem. They've been taught to

(54:03):
create boundaries and separatethemselves from the families, to
have boundaries, to take care oftheir own children, their own
careers, and they don't oweanything back to their
grandparents or their parents.
They don't come to take care ofthem.

Natalie (54:19):
And I'll say this, and I am like, Girl, we could get on
this we could get on this trainall day, all day. Yes, we could.
I will say this, that's one ofthe reasons, like I said, we
started care forward, is itreally is strangers become
neighbors, weaving kindness intothe fabric of our community.
There is nothing in our societythat says you are required to

(54:41):
care for your parents, or you'rerequired to care for your
spouse, and you know, divorcerates are high and people who
have complex and chronicillnesses, you know, you have
people who are who siblings thatdon't want to care for, you
know, a parent and that they'vegot a primary that does it all.
And I think that's reallyimportant, that together. Takes
the village, and we always liketo say, in the village next

(55:02):
door, to care for our community.
And so I think, you know, I'mgoing to direct people. Go to
the website. Go to confessionsof reluctant caregiver. Pull our
resource guide, because it's gotlots of good stuff. Go to Donna.
Go to healthcare, tohomecare.com take a look at her
resources as well. Becausehere's the thing, you can never
have too many No. And we're allabout cooperation. We cooperate

(55:25):
with all kinds of people, Donnaand so no issue with saying we
are not the sole source of everyall the knowledge, but we try
really hard to give you as muchas we can figure out, because
connections,

Unknown (55:39):
connection Absolutely.

Natalie (55:41):
So you know what, Donna, I'm going to do, the last
question, Jay, I'm going to letyou take my last question since,
oh my goodness, I'm so excited,you can take the last question,

Unknown (55:51):
Donna, what is your favorite guilty pleasure? The
one thing that you do just foryourself, audio books.

Natalie (56:03):
Oh, audio books. Oh. I like those, any particular
genre.

Unknown (56:10):
Yeah, Christian mysteries.

Natalie (56:12):
Ooh, unexpected. I was expecting Hallmark and a little
bit of Julia Quinn.

Unknown (56:22):
I like mysteries. I like the who done it.

Natalie (56:25):
Oh, so you must like the hot Wait. Do you like the
Hallmark mystery channel?
Hallmark? You can sponsor usbecause, you know, hallmark is
for caregivers. But Donna, doyou like that? Do you subscribe?
Because Hallmark, Hallmarkmysteries is a special
subscription, like I was jokingthat in you know, when MTV 40
years

Unknown (56:40):
ago, watch television anymore, because I don't sit
down, but I believe

Natalie (56:44):
that, yeah, and hence the audio book. Yeah,

Unknown (56:47):
exactly. I can use the audio book while I'm doing other
things. And I always have myphone on for audio books. And
that's, that's what I used to dowith Lynn. You know, while I was
busy doing things for him,always listen to audio books,
and it would take me away thosemysteries. And so a lot of times

(57:09):
the Christian mysteries wouldhave a little bit of the romance
stuff into them too. And so italways just kind of fit that
kind of combination. And so Ijust really love that, you know,
I'd really get into some kind ofgood story and try to figure out
who was it that killed thatperson. I always have. I've
always really liked a little bitof that police piece to things.

(57:32):
I used to work a lot with thepolice department in my job,
because I did a lot ofinvestigative work when I was
working, I can really miss doingthat investigative,
investigative piece.

Natalie (57:44):
You know, it makes perfect sense, because if you
think about it, medicine is amystery. And when you're trying
to figure out what's wrong withpeople you are, you are ruling
out and ruling in, but

Unknown (57:54):
in foreign relations, I did all the investigations.

Natalie (57:58):
Oh, so you are a mystery. Girl at heart. I think
Donna's got an un like her nextchapter. Literally, she's
getting into mystery writing. Ican totally feel it. This was so
much fun, Donna, I we couldtalk. We're going to be besties
forever, and it's okay if youdon't want to be JJ, best
friend, I get it. There's onlyenough room for me. I take up a

(58:19):
lot of space. But since it's JJ's birthday, I'll let her close
us out for this one time out of100 and some episodes, it's your
birthday, Jay, and so you mightas well thank everyone and close
us out

Unknown (58:33):
all right. Well, thanks everyone for listening to this
episode with John a stag letter,and until we confess again,
we'll see you next time. Bye,bye, bye.

Natalie (58:46):
Well, friends, that's a wrap on this week's confession
again. Thank you so much forlistening. But before you go,
please take a moment to leave usa review and tell your friends
about the confessions podcast.
Don't forget to visit ourwebsite to sign up for our
newsletter. You'll also find avideo recording of all of our
episodes on the confessionswebsite and our YouTube channel.

(59:07):
Don't worry, all the details areincluded in the show notes
below. We'll see you nextTuesday when we come together to
confess again. Till then, takecare of you. Bye. Kristen, okay,
let's talk disclaimers. You maybe surprised to find out, but we
are not medical professionalsand are not providing any

(59:29):
medical advice. If you have anymedical questions, we recommend
that you talk with a medicalprofessional of your choice, as
always, my sisters and I, atConfessions of a reluctant
caregiver, have taken care inselecting speakers, but the
opinions of our speakers aretheirs alone. The views and
opinions stated in this podcastare solely those of the

(59:52):
contributors and not necessarilythose of our distributors or
hosting company. This podcast iscalled. Copyrighted and no part
can be reproduced without theexpress written consent of the
sisterhood of care LLC, thankyou for listening to the
confessions of our reluctantcaregiver podcast.
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