August 19, 2025 • 57 mins
Michelle Cain’s journey as a caregiver began when her mother was diagnosed with Lewy Body dementia during the pandemic, a time already fraught with uncertainty and stress. At 47, Michelle found herself in the “sandwich generation,” balancing the needs of her own family—her husband and two sons—with the increasing demands of caring for her mother. The diagnosis came as a shock, and Michelle quickly had to navigate the complexities of her mother’s delusions, the challenges of finding appropriate care, and the emotional toll of watching a parent’s health decline. Despite a complicated relationship with her mother, Michelle became the primary caregiver, a role shaped by both proximity and necessity.
Throughout this experience, Michelle confronted not only the practical aspects of caregiving but also deep-seated emotional issues. Her mother’s illness unearthed decades of unresolved resentment and anger, forcing Michelle to process and ultimately find forgiveness. This journey was made even more challenging by the pressures of the pandemic and personal struggles within her own family, including her son’s eating disorder and her ongoing commitment to sobriety. Michelle’s story is one of resilience and growth—she openly shares how her caregiving role, though difficult, became a catalyst for healing and self-discovery.
Michelle’s insights, captured in her book “Did Mom Drop Acid?”, offer valuable lessons for others in similar situations. She emphasizes the importance of accepting help, maintaining a sense of humor, and recognizing that grief and forgiveness are complex, ongoing processes. Her candid reflections provide hope and guidance for caregivers facing their own challenges, illustrating that even in the midst of chaos, there can be unexpected gifts and opportunities for personal transformation.
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Learn more about Confessions of a Reluctant Caregiver: https://confessionsofareluctantcaregiver.com/
** Caregiver Action Network Caregiver Help Desk offers free support to family caregivers via phone, chat, or email Monday through Friday, 8:00 am - 7:00 pm Eastern. Get answers, resources, support group info, or a listening ear. Visit www.caregiveraction.org/helpdesk/ or call 855-277-3640.**
Confessions of a Reluctant Caregiver
Sisterhood of Care, LLC
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Natalie (00:00):
Hey guys, it's your favorite sisters with the
(00:02):
Confessions of a reluctantcaregiver. Podcast. On the show,
you'll hear caregiversconfessing the good, the bad and
the completely unexpected.
You're guaranteed to relate beinspired. Leave with helpful
tips and resources and, ofcourse, laugh. Now let's jump
right in to today's guestconfession.
Unknown (00:24):
Hi, Jay, Hi, Ellen. It's great.
It's great. It's great.
JJ (00:32):
Tony the Tiger. Remember that? Oh,
Unknown (00:34):
it's great. That
Natalie (00:39):
was actually funny.
Yeah, no. It was like Saturday
JJ (00:41):
morning cartoons. Remember that? Gosh, you
Natalie (00:43):
know, I loved Smurfs, snorkels,
JJ (00:46):
yeah, let's move on.
Although, you know, I think thatpeople that watch cartoons, if
you're a caregiver, you know,people talk about watching TV. I
think if you watched a little, Idon't know, Smurfs occasionally,
that would reduce that
Natalie (00:57):
stress. 99 Smurfs.
Yeah, 99 tell you, man, Smurf,we have a guest today.
JJ (01:01):
We don't talk about the guests. Oh, this
Natalie (01:03):
is not a cartoon podcast.
JJ (01:04):
It is not about cartoons today. There we are. There we
are. Although sometimes lifefeels like a cartoon, or maybe
just about
Natalie (01:11):
like that show the Wile E Coyote and the Road Runner,
yes, and you feel like TNT blowsup on y'all run over a couple.
You know, we have a amazingguest today. I'm super excited
we, I mean, we've been trying toget with her. She is, she is a
hard lady to get with, and so Iam very excited to have
Michelle, and I would love foryou to tell folks about
JJ (01:33):
her. Well, thank you for this opportunity. Natalie, oh,
well, I'm sure we don't allowyou
Natalie (01:37):
to. The question is, is, can you read your phone? Is
it big enough? Is the print big?
I have got
JJ (01:42):
it on 20 font. So if she's going to harass me like this,
Michelle, I'm sorry.
Natalie (01:46):
Michelle, very embarrassing
JJ (01:49):
today we have with us.
Michelle Kane, and I'm going tothrow out. First of all, you
know you hear that that termsandwich generation, Michelle is
the reason why that term isthere. Yep, she was 47 when her
mom was diagnosed with Lewy BodyBody dementia. Here's some
highlights of that diagnosis.
(02:09):
All of that came duringlockdown. So it was in 2020, at
the time, and still, Michellehas a husband at that time. She
had a son in high school, shehad a son that was a senior in
college. One of the other thingsabout this, though, and this is
really interesting to me, isthat caregiving, her caregiving
(02:30):
role, stirred up a lot ofunresolved issues, a lot of
emotions, and some of thoseemotions had caused a history of
drinking in Michelle's life, andat that point in 2020 she was
six years sober, which isfantastic, she says, in all the
chaos and in all the messiness,though, of this caregiving
(02:52):
experience, there were gifts,and you are going to love what
the gifts are that she shareswith us. Michelle also wrote a
book, and I love the name.
Natalie (03:01):
This is why we wanted to meet Michelle. Because
Michelle knew how to title.
Yeah, she wrote the book.
JJ (03:06):
Did mom drop acid? I
Natalie (03:10):
like we can relate. We have moments where we're like,
Did mom
JJ (03:15):
just really do that? Did mom drop acid? And those she say
that. She says that title isbasically, it's the book is
about the raw events of ourexperience. And Michelle, we are
so happy to have you here withus today. Thanks
Unknown (03:28):
for
Natalie (03:29):
having me well. And we always like to start we given a
little background. We alwayslike to know about background
of, you know, where you're from,kind of grew up, met your
husband, had some kids like,let's give some background, so
people get a flavor of who youare.
Unknown (03:45):
Okay, so going back, well, I was born in reading
Pennsylvania, although I have nomemory of reading Pennsylvania,
because my parents picked up andmoved to Southern California
when my sister and I were veryyoung. And my sister and I are
Irish twins, so we're 11 monthsapart, okay, which I had no
concept of, until I had kids.
And then I was like, what wereyou thinking, mom? Like, does
(04:06):
that even happen, you know, butthe but so my sister and I are
close, so we're and we were, youknow, I think I was maybe one,
and Danielle was two when wemoved to Southern California. So
all of my childhood andadolescence was spent in the
beach communities down outsideof San Diego. So I was your
(04:27):
quintessential you know, livedon the beach in the summers gal,
and then went to northernCalifornia and went to Chico
State for higher education. AndI went to Chico State a couple
years after it had made Playboymagazine's number one party
school. Oh, wow,
Natalie (04:47):
your parents are like, we should pay for that.
Unknown (04:51):
Anytime I told someone where I went to school, they
were like, oh, that's the numberone party school.
Natalie (04:57):
So I thought it was West Virginia University that.
It's just, it's Chico State hadWVU right before
Unknown (05:03):
I know, yeah, yeah. So needless to say, that didn't
help the descent into thedrinking, but that's a whole
nother story, yeah. But so mysister went to Chico State as
well. So we actually followedeach other to college also, and
then I met my husband, my see Iguess it was going out of my
junior year in college into mysenior year, and we were married
(05:25):
really young. When I look backat pictures of us, I mean, I
literally it was we look likekids. Oh yeah, you were 12, you
know, because I was 22 justabout to turn 23 when we got
married. So we spent our lastsemester in college, actually
married. No kidding, yeah, Iremember my parents were so
concerned that I wasn't going tograduate and finish. You know,
(05:48):
you're like, in that last mile,and my dad just was like, Please
finish. Please finish. But wedid, and I moved, took a job in
public relations, out of collegeand moved to San Francisco,
commuted into the city, and thenmy husband and I kind of sat
back at one point and decided ifwe were going to have a family,
(06:09):
we needed to find somewhere thatwas a little more conducive to
that life. Because I wascommuting an hour and a half, he
was commuting an hour and ahalf. There was just we couldn't
even fathom how we could have afamily in that situation, and
people do it just at the time.
For us, didn't feel like thatwas going to work. So we picked
up and moved to Austin, Texas,and we've been in Texas ever
since, wow.
Natalie (06:29):
I mean, that is not remotely close, like Texas. I
mean, you went to and although,although, I will say, if you
lived in in, say, outside SanDiego, and then Austin, I love
keep their motto is, Keep Austinweird. I think it's, I think
that's what it is. I loveAustin. It's really, it's a cool
(06:50):
town, and not that it's not ait's not that it's a town like
there's five people, but there'sa lot of people, but, um, so
why? Why? Why Texas? I mean,you're from PA, you moved to
California. Texas is not exactlylike California, except for
Austin, maybe,
Unknown (07:06):
yeah, well, and so my mother was from a small town in
Texas, Bryan, which is it abutsCollege Station. And everybody
knows college station for TexasA and M. So we would come back
and visit Texas relatives allthrough my childhood. And then
we had some very good familyfriends that also lived in
Austin, so we would come seethem. So when I started looking
(07:28):
for that equation of, kind offeels like a small town, but
also has employment, oh, youknow, back in the late 90s, that
was Austin and so, yeah, so itreally fit the bill. And we kind
of packed up the, you know, fourbelongings that we owned at that
time and our dog.
Natalie (07:46):
That's true. Don't you love it when you were poor?
Yeah. I'm like, we have nothing.
When you're out of college,you're like, we have nothing.
It's fine, but we haveeverything.
Unknown (07:55):
Yeah? It's like, this, there is an ease to it, right?
Yeah, it is
Natalie (07:58):
true. I mean, there was life was a lot easier when we
had less less things, to behonest. So you guys moved there,
you moved to Texas, and this isbefore the boys were born,
right?
Unknown (08:09):
So, right. I had my first son, we I mean, we were
barely in Texas. Think we weremaybe a year in Texas, and I had
my first son, and then I had myyounger son three and a half
years later, so
Natalie (08:23):
and so your mom was your mom living in Texas at the
time,
Unknown (08:27):
no, but she soon followed. So the and I laughed
saying that, because you knowit, you know, and I think you
may have touched on it in thebio, but my mom and I had a very
complicated relationship. And soone of the things to my story as
a reluctant caregiver is reallycaring for somebody that you
know maybe you didn't have thisreally friendly relationship all
(08:49):
through your life with. And so Ihad left California, kind of
like, Yay, freedom. And she andmy dad were still in California.
And it wasn't that we had thishorrible relationship. We talked
on the phone and stuff. I didn'tnecessarily want her in my
backyard, right? Yes, so I movedto Texas, and, of course, her
family is here, so I have a herfirst grandbaby, and then it's
(09:14):
quickly, she buys a house inTexas and starts splitting time
here. So so it was a little bitof a mixed bag, you know. And
she she ended up after my dadpassed away, my dad passed away
and 2006 Mm, hmm. So my mombecame a widow, and then she was
out here in in College Stationagain in Texas, to help her
(09:35):
sister care for their mom. So,yeah, life comes full circle.
I'm realizing you kind of end upback in the town you were in
before.
Natalie (09:44):
No, that's interesting that your mom moved. Did she
move for to help care for hermom alongside her sister? Or was
it kind of like this works andI've got my first grandbaby, and
this is where all my people are.
Are, because we're all aboutyour people, like all of our
people are in Tennessee, and sowas it like a multitude of
things? And you were like, Yeah,I kind of moved to, you should
(10:07):
stay.
Unknown (10:11):
So there was a series of years in between me having
the grandbaby and my mompermanently coming to Texas. So
she spent, she spent kind ofhalf, half time in Texas, when,
when my son was born, then withmy dad passing, she she went
through a lot of depression, andshe was just kind of hauled up
(10:31):
in San Diego, and her sisterconvinced her to come out to
help care for their mom. Littleside story on that too. She and
her mother had a verycomplicated relationship. In
fact, I can count on one handhow many times I saw my
grandmother growing up and when,when she was in town, you could
literally, even as a child, Icould feel the tension between
(10:53):
those two and so, so for her tocome out and help her sister
towards the end was was kind ofa big deal, because they and
they hadn't really had thislovey dovey relationship, but it
brought her to Texas, and Ithink her sister knew that she
needed that at the time. Sheneeded to get out of San Diego,
where all the memories were, andI think that that was the silver
(11:15):
lining for that. So it's sointeresting, the older I get,
the more I'm like, noteverything in life is all good
or all bad, right? So she, shecame out, and that was a good
thing. But then, on the flipside, I wasn't super excited
having her permanently in Texas,so good and bad, right? Yeah,
Natalie (11:31):
that totally makes sense.
JJ (11:32):
Oh yeah. Let me ask you a question. So I hear you saying,
you know, her relationshipwasn't stellar with her mom and
I Same, same thing with you. Youknow, there was definitely
tension there. Did your mom? Wasit a reciprocal feeling, like
your mom knew that you all had atense relationship? Or did she
think everything was finebecause that type of
relationship with her mom, shewas just used to it?
Unknown (11:53):
Yeah, that's a really good question. You really
realize that you pass thingsdown, generate like through the
generations when you startseeing these patterns? I think
I'm going to say, No, my mom didnot have a lot of insight on on
her stuff, let's say and so eventhough she would talk about her
(12:14):
mom and having this reallystrained relationship, she
didn't see it in her own girls.
So I mean, and here's why I knowthat, because at the same exact
time she and my sister werebarely speaking, it was like she
didn't even have anotherdaughter. So yeah, so here you
have this completely strangerelationship with one daughter,
and then complaining about herrelationship with her mom, but
(12:37):
not seeing it in herself.
Natalie (12:41):
Yeah, that is, that is.
So I know that. So you go andyou have, you have your oldest
son, then you have next babynugget. Because I love baby
nugget, yeah, and then, and lifekeeps moving, right? Life keeps
moving. But there's always this,this change that really, that
really does something that thatchanges the dynamic. And so what
(13:05):
is care typically comes in acrisis or slow burn. Would you
say it was crisis or slow burn?
Unknown (13:15):
In regards to my mom?
Oh, crisis. Yeah. She we were inthe middle of the pandemic. I
mean, we had literally just goneinto lockdown, so we, I wasn't
seeing her as often as I wouldhave been. It didn't mean there
were months going by, but itjust we weren't seeing each
other as much. Yeah, and I itwas, it took me weeks to figure
(13:37):
out that something was off,like, not even wrong, just off.
And then it went from that to,she's hallucinating. We need to
go to a neurologist. And it was,it felt like it just landed in
my life, if that makes sense,and then, then you're just
trying to play catch up. It'slike, okay, we have this
doctor's appointment and thisdoctor's appointment, and what
(13:58):
is this? Are you sure it's that,you know? So it was just so
fast, yeah,
Natalie (14:04):
so let me ask you this, because it sounds like, you
know, I hear you saying that youand your sister had a tenuous
relationship with your mom andbut it sounds like you were the
winner for being the primarycaregiver for your mom, if the
relationship was more strainedbetween she and your older
sister,
Unknown (14:25):
for sure. So I always say, you know, my sister and my
mother's relationship makes myrelationship with my mother look
uncomplicated. There you go,yeah. So it's, it's, you know,
it's on a pendulum. You're like,well, in the grand scheme of
things, I also had proximity. Somy sister is in California, and
I was, you know, we're both inTexas, and I was maybe 30
(14:48):
minutes away from her. So, so itwas also proximity, which there
were times when I would get intomy kind of resentful self that I
was like, if I just stayed outof Texas, this would have never
happened. I.
Natalie (15:00):
I know so many people feel that way about Texas. I
know so, so, so I, you knowwhat, I'm going to take a break
right here, like, because we'regoing to, we're going to get in
the middle, because we're in thepandemic. Mom is having some,
some weird behavior where kidsare in school varying levels,
(15:21):
because you've got to split and,and, yeah, and, and then we
just, there's stuff, yeah, let'stake a break
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JJ (16:21):
All right, everybody, we are back here with Michelle Kane,
and during the pandemic, and momhas started acting, started
acting weird. I think that's,you know, abnormal, and she's
gone through multiple phases, Iguess, of diagnosis, and you get
that diagnosis and what did?
What is the diagnosis? Michelle,
Unknown (16:41):
so I'll back up a little, because I know that
people have a hard time gettinga Lewy Body diagnosis. Super
challenging. We lucked out, andI didn't even know what it was,
I mean, until it was in my life,I couldn't have told you what
Lewy body dementia was. And wewent to a neurologist who really
nailed it out of the gate, and,and, and I don't even think I
(17:03):
knew how lucky that was untilway later, and she was diagnosed
with the side that is likeParkinsonian Louis Bonnie
dementia first, because herParkinsonian side was the thing
that he could see the most,which ironically, was not as
prevalent. To me, it was thehallucinations that I was hung
(17:23):
up on, but for him, it was theParkinsonian movement disorder
side. So he said, I can't, Ican't diagnose you, because you
have to go to a neuro psychevaluation for that. But on my
short list, it would be, youknow, LBD. And so I went, Okay,
and then you go and you have anMRI, you do a neuro psych test,
(17:44):
which is, by the way, like thisfive hour questions drawing
things. I'm like, when my momwas doing it, I thought, I don't
know if I would pass I was kindof, like, over her shoulder,
like, Man, this is
Natalie (17:53):
exhausting. When you're not sure if you're going to pass
a test, you're like, Oh God
Unknown (17:59):
no. It's like, I gotta remember when I took a four hour
test last you know. So, so itreally and the MRI came back as
typical for her age, whichleaves you like, well, what does
that mean? So again, Lewy Bodyyou really don't see on a scan
until postmortem. So, so it's alittle bit of a difficult one to
diagnose, and that's why, whenRobin Williams, wife came out
(18:22):
with that documentary that shedid, I was so grateful to her,
because I sat down and watchedit and helped enlighten me on
everything that I had going oncurrently in my life. So yeah,
so we had the diagnosis. Butreally what, what stood out to
me during that time was thedelusions. I mean, we went from
having normal conversations tomy mom to her calling and
(18:44):
leaving me voicemails about mysister and I being in the back
room and how we haven't eatenfor days. You know, so and
you're trying to put ittogether, because you, your
brain's always trying to makesense of things. So you're like,
well, was I there? I guess I wasthere, like, maybe a week ago,
she thinking about that when, Iknow lives in California, and
(19:04):
then it just went from there.
She's talking about a dog thathad passed away years ago, and
how she had fed her, and she wasin the kitchen with her, things
like that. So it was constantwith that.
Natalie (19:16):
Was she still living on her own, she was
Unknown (19:19):
and that's a whole nother challenge that I know I'm
not unique in and caregiving iswhen is it not safe anymore for
someone to live at home? And forus, it was when the delusional
world became paranoid. That'show I realized, when you in
Texas, we have what's calledSilver alerts, which is where
(19:40):
they they do billboards when theelderly has, you know, wandered
off, yeah? And I used to kind ofgiggle at that, and then I was
like, oh my goodness, mymother's gonna become a Silver
Alert. Because when that, whenthat paranoia hit, I could
totally see her leaving herhouse. Yeah, he was convinced
that her neighbor's son wastrying to take her house. And
she would call. Me at four inthe morning and leave me these
(20:01):
very frightening messages abouthim being in the back room and
we needed to get a lawyer. And,you know, the the rational side
of me was like, that would bereally scary. I could see why
she'd want to leave her house.
Yeah. So then it became this maddash to find somewhere to put
her
Natalie (20:17):
yeah. So before the put let's go and talk about the rest
of your life. Because you're amama. You have a son. The
younger son is in high school.
The older son is in college. Youhave a husband. I don't know, a
job life, and so at this point,it feels like especially, and
(20:39):
the pandemic slowed us all down.
It stopped all of us, right? Andit's and it affected our lives
in very different ways,individually and so, no, I don't
think one experience is the samefor each one of us. So, and then
caregiving was like, thepandemic was like, Oh, watch
this. We're going to do this foryou as well. So what's going on
(21:02):
at this point with marriage andthe boys and work and trying to
navigate? Oh yeah, mom can'tstay at home any longer,
Unknown (21:11):
right? So I'll start with my job at the time, because
it was kind of unique. Also,just because of the pandemic, I
was working at a detox facilityfor substance use, and so we had
a wait list at that time. As youcan imagine, drinking went
through the roof, and so thatthat meant I was an essential
worker, so I actually got toleave the house all the time,
(21:33):
which was kind of funny, becausemy family was jealous, yeah,
like, Oh, where are you going?
Because they were stuck at home.
So I was working at detox at thetime, my younger son was in high
school, had come home, but atthat time, it was right around
spring break, and they were kindof talking about whether or not
they would go back into theclassroom. So we weren't really
(21:54):
sure. My older son had broughtone duffel bag home from Texas
Tech and thought he was goingback to college. He had just
come home from spring break onlyto find out that he was going to
be spending months with hisparents, so he was excited about
that.
Natalie (22:09):
No sarcasm, yeah.
Unknown (22:12):
So, you know, fast forward a little a couple months
in to the pandemic, and my mom'sstill having her hallucinations,
and I'm trying to juggle that Ihave my younger son, who is now
basically passing one class, youknow? And, yeah, I mean, he's
decided he literally on his own,without talking to us. He's gone
from being a straight A studentto literally having a, I think
(22:33):
it was a c minus in one classand failing out of all the other
classes, and basically decidedthat he wasn't, you know, he'd
just get his GED and figure itout, and he had already been
accepted to college. So his dadand I were like, you know,
trying, not we were trying tostay calm, as you do as parents,
but inside, you're just freakingout. Yeah, so my husband took
(22:55):
that conversation because atthat time, oh, boy, you probably
didn't want me taking thatconversation, because the rabbit
hole, you know, I was so strungout with my mom, and I was like,
you do that one? And got himback on track. It turns out the
teachers were very aware thatthe kids were struggling, and it
was just a mess of stuff. And wegot him back on track. And no
(23:15):
sooner did we get him back ontrack that my older son go, he
went ahead and went to Miami forhis grad program. And months in,
I knew something was off. Youknow how you hear your kids on
the phone and you just your gutis like, something's not quite
right, but you can't exactly putyour finger on it, and I was
really distracted with all thestuff with my mom. So whereas I
(23:35):
might have gone into Miami, hadit not been the pandemic, and
had I not had all the stuff withmy mom. I didn't do that this
time, and so he called me out ofthe blue, I guess we were
probably maybe six months intomy mom's diagnosis, and we were,
we weren't in lockdown,technically anymore, but we
really were, because nothing wasopen, right, you know? And he
(23:58):
called me, and he was at someclinic, and he was talking about
things that just didn't makesense, like that. He had stomach
problems and, you know, andthere was just something off,
because that was not him. And Isaid, you know what's going on?
And he just this little voicecame over the phone. He's like,
Mom, I just need to come home.
And I was like, we'll get you aplane ticket, you know, like
(24:18):
we're and I said, Look, just goahead and get the plane ticket
and let us know when you'recoming in. And then I got this
text, and he was coming in,like, that night. Wow, so I knew
something was wrong. And when wepicked him up from the airport,
yeah, he had, I mean, this wasthe beginning of an eating
disorder that had been takenhold when he went to Miami and
he got off that plane and lookedlike a skeleton, and his dad and
(24:42):
I just got quiet, we just werelike, Oh my gosh. So we had that
come in. So I had one childfailing at a high school and
deciding that he was going tojust not go ahead and go to
college. I had another one thatcame home with an eating
disorder, and then I have my momcalling me at 4am to. Telling me
the the son of her neighbor istrying to take her out. How's
(25:02):
your
JJ (25:04):
husband doing? I mean, you guys are still married. I think
that's great. Y'all,
Unknown (25:08):
you know. And I would love to say that, you know. But
the reality is, Travis and I, attimes, had the coping skills of
toddlers, you know? I mean,yeah, you just had a place where
your behavior is not the best,you know. And so we would snap
at each other for the most part.
Oh, man, I was so lucky to havemy husband. Yeah, I thought
about it all the time. There area lot of people who were going
(25:30):
through what I was going throughwithout any help from a spouse.
And so, yeah, he was, he wouldjust take a deep breath and
listen, and he, you know, hewould, at times, go up and deal
with my mom when he knew that Ineeded a breather from it.
JJ (25:46):
Yeah, I want to, I want to ask a question, because I think
when we talked about it earlier,we've never had anyone that was
very open with us. You have allthese stressors going on in your
life, Michelle, but you alsowere open about the fact that
you were six years sober, andyou brought that up to us
because that's so important toyou. Tell me about that
background and what was going onin your life. Were there ever
(26:10):
those times when you thought, Ican't do this anymore? How did
this impact you and go back toour old behaviors? Yeah, yeah.
Unknown (26:18):
So I'm actually excited to talk about this, and it's,
it's a long road for me, andwhen I first got sober, I was
very ashamed of and I didn'ttalk about it very often. And so
to be in the place now where I'mlike, oh, I want to talk about
this, because I know it's notunique, and there are people out
there that are caregiving andand that kind of falls in two
camps, where you're like me, andyou're sober and you're trying
(26:38):
to stay sober, or you'resomebody who's drinking is
accelerating, yeah, because ofthe pressures of caregiving. So
for either one of thoselisteners, I hope this helps. So
for me, I'll back up. I gotsober when I was 42 Yeah, and
changed careers at that time. Sothat is why I went into the
counseling side, and it put meinto substance use counseling
(27:00):
and mental health. So that's whyI was at detox when when I was
when the pandemic hit. But so Iwas about six years down the
road when this hit, and I'lltell you what, whereas in early
sobriety, not drinking, issitting right in front of your
face, you think about it all thetime, like don't drink, you're
doing all the things to makesure that you stay healthy and
(27:21):
your mind and your body and allthose things are so focused on
just staying sober and mentalhealth being a thing six years
down the road, it was less infront of my face, because I It
wasn't something that I thoughtabout every day. Yeah, and
there's a little bit of a jaggededge on that, because had it
(27:41):
been where I thought about itmore, it probably wouldn't have
sideswiped me. And I'll give youan example. So I did not
relapse, but I I came very closeand and what it was, was the it
was the day after, I dropped mymom at memory care, and I went
and now knowing the stuff that Ihad just told you about both
sons and all the things thatwere happening. I wasn't paying
(28:04):
attention to all the layers ofstress in my life. So I drop her
off, I go the next day, sheopens the door and just starts
sobbing and telling me, I can'tstay here. It's awful. You have
no idea how awful this is, and Ihad to hold it together and not
cry in front of her, becausethat wouldn't have helped the
(28:24):
situation. But it was awful tosee your parent cry and to know
that there's literally nothingyou can do. She was where she
needed to be, so I just talkedher through that very calmly,
and I got in my car and I left.
Alcohol was nowhere on my mindwhen I got in my car, I pull
into the grocery store parkinglot because I need to get some
milk, very innocent, and all ofa sudden I start thinking about
(28:46):
wine, what is going on. And I,you know, I was so blessed at
that time to immediately My mindwent to all the things I had
heard sitting in AA meetings ofpeople who had been through
tremendous things. And Iremember this one lady very
vividly talking about pullinginto a grocery store parking lot
(29:07):
after her son had died, and justsitting there and not wanting to
do it and leaving. And Iremember that stuck with me so
much because I was in earlysobriety. And honestly, I
remember thinking, God, I couldnever do that. I would, probably
would have drank, you know. Andhere I was six years down the
road, and a very heavy,emotionally charged thing, and
(29:27):
before I knew it, I had put mycar in reverse and was was
coming out. And then Iimmediately told on myself. I
got home, and I said to myhusband, hey, I don't want to
scare you, but man, I was reallyclose to relapsing today, his
poor face, I watched his facekind of get really worried, and
I said I didn't, and I did allthe things I know to do, but
(29:48):
man, I must be under a lot ofstress that I didn't realize how
stressed I was, and thosedefensives had come down. So it
was a real eye opener for methat I probably. Needed
truthfully, because there was alot of stress in my life, and
that could have gone the otherway. Yeah, and so I think it's
really important to talk about Imissed all the layering of
stress that contributed to thatsituation being what it was.
Natalie (30:14):
I mean, that's that's truly what any counselor and
group that works withindividuals, whether your
substance use disorder or goinginto a dark place, kind of going
back into depression and thingslike that, is really having the
self awareness and you hope thatyou're in that you always hope
that the interventions and thegroups and all the conversations
(30:36):
and all the stories help you tobe insight oriented and behavior
modifying, and it worked. Imean, what your story is is it
worked, and it it diverted youfrom making a choice that would
have been hard to step backfrom. Doesn't mean that you
couldn't have stepped back fromit, but that's six years and
(30:57):
that that that matters. And so Ithink you know that's a huge
kudos to you, but that selfawareness to say, Hey, I could
have gone, I could have goneinto a bad place. Yeah, let's,
let's stop here and take abreak, and then we'll come right
back. All right.
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JJ (32:02):
you IO, All right, everybody, we are back here with
Michelle Kane, and she's had avictory. She, I think I agree.
She backed out of a grocerystore when, when she was
thinking about buying a bottleof wine after a really, she just
went for milk, and she havealmost dealt with wine, and
she'd been six years sober. Sothat's a victory for me. So I
(32:23):
want to, I want to talk aboutcomplex relationship. And you
wrote in your your caregivingstory that the caregiving for
your mom, it brought up a lot ofresentment and anger that you
could not ignore. And I want totalk about that and how you move
past it, because you foundsomething in your caregiving
(32:46):
experience that you saidsomething joyful in the end, I
think so tell me about it.
Unknown (32:52):
So it really surprised me when so my mother and I, I
had kind of gotten to thatpoint. A lot of people get to
where I felt like our issueswere about what they were going
to be, and I had come to peacewith meeting her where she was,
and that that was just where ourrelationship was at that time,
and that was okay, like, if Iwanted to have any kind of
relationship with my mom, thenthat was what it needed to look
(33:15):
like. So I'd really put to bedresolving any of our past, you
know, and then she got sick, andit unearthed those decades of
dysfunction so fast, and itbrought up this like guttural
anger and resentment that justsideswiped me. I was not
expecting it at all. And My poorhusband, I mean, he probably we
(33:36):
would just sit out on the backpatio, and he just let me talk
and talk through it. But it Iwas really surprised by that.
And I don't know if it wasbecause our roles got flipped,
you know, where all of a suddenI was more the parent and she
was more the child, or if it wasjust this thing that where you
kind of, know, you need toresolve things because this
(33:57):
person is sick. I don't knowwhat it was, but it just
unearthed immediately, and I hadto resolve it without the other
person being able to participatein it.
Natalie (34:09):
Now that is some therapy, because if you really
think about it, I mean, you haveto be able to forgive and and it
just be one sided, you know whatI mean,
Unknown (34:22):
and I'll tell you what.
So one of the gifts thathappened, and of course, you
don't always see this whenyou're in it, you typically see
it as you look back, was thedisease made my mom almost
childlike. So she she got verysmall, especially towards the
end. Her voice became a whisper,which is common with the
Parkinsonian side of it, and shethe delusions were just
(34:45):
constant. So it wasn't reallythis mother that I remember
anyways, when we wereinteracting, but that kind of
childlike stature and herinability to argue with me or
yell. Role allowed me to resolvethings without her
participating, because there wasthis level of A, you're not the
mom I remember. And B, it washard to be mad at somebody who
(35:11):
was going through what she wasgoing through. Yeah. So it
allowed for this, this personthat had been a problem for me
in the past, to to be somethingthat she wasn't, and allow me to
get to that place of forgivenesswith her. Wow,
Natalie (35:30):
there's so many people I think that want to get there,
but don't know how that don't,that don't, and I think that in
our minds, I think maybe as aschildren, you know, you
apologize when you do somethingwrong, you admit this
acknowledgement, so that theother person is validated in
that in a different way. Do youknow what I mean? And so
(35:53):
children, I think, of trauma andabuse depending on it's not even
dependent on the abuse. There'svarious types of abuse, there's
various types of abuse, butchildren have experienced trauma
or in strained relationships. Itmakes it harder. It makes it
harder. And I think you're rightabout you. You have this tense
relationship, and then you getto this certain point, and there
(36:16):
is no arguing. I mean, how canyou even argue with a person who
doesn't have the mental capacityto do so, and then how can you
expect to have a resolution? Ithink there was a book, I don't
know if you've read it with thatOprah Winfrey did with, oh,
what's my favorite? He's myBruce. Bruce Perry. Bruce Perry
(36:38):
is I have, I have a professionalcrush on Bruce Perry. I think
he's wonderful. And it's, it'swhat happened to you, and she
talks about it is a fantasticbook, if people haven't read it.
It really talks about childhoodtrauma, and Oprah talks about
the trauma that she experienced,and how in the very end, and I'm
sitting there crying, I never amcrying. I am. I am a really hard
(36:59):
candy outer shell, and butcrying at the end, where she has
got to come in her mind, I haveto have resolution with my mom,
even if my mom doesn't give itback. And there's something so
freeing about that, and I don'tknow if you felt like that
allowed you a sense of freedom,like I'm not going to carry this
(37:20):
any longer. It doesn't serve me
Unknown (37:23):
for sure. And by the way, I'm glad that somebody else
cried at the end of that book.
There I was out on a walk withmy dogs, and that that scene
just sort of sideswiped me. Iwas like, sobbing, and I'm like,
What's wrong with me? People,
Natalie (37:34):
you gotta listen to the audio book. You have to listen
to you can read it. But theaudio book where, where she and
Bruce Perry are taught. They,they are, they, they speak it
and it is, it is unbelievable.
So anyway, yes, I'm glad
Unknown (37:50):
it's so interesting. As I as a counselor and working in
the rehabs, I talked aboutforgiveness all the time in
groups, and I thought I had apretty good grasp of what
forgiveness looked like, or whatI thought it looked like, right?
And it is freeing in a way thatI can even articulate well.
Because I would have said in agroup like, oh yeah, you'll
(38:12):
you'll feel so much freer. Butit snuck up on me. And I think I
thought forgiveness was going tobe this thing where, like, oh,
just one day I'd say I forgiveyou, and it would be all better.
And that is not how it playedout for me at all. It was like
micro, little things thatlayered together, and then I was
sitting on the couch one day,and it was like forgiveness
dropped down next to me and waslike, Hello, I've been here the
(38:34):
whole time because, like, I itwas like, I found myself saying
to my mom, I love you and I'mnot ready for you to die,
because we were getting towardsthe end, and none of the chatter
followed behind that, none ofthe but you did this, or, Oh, I
wish you had been better at thiswith me. Or it was just, I love
(38:55):
you and I'm not ready for you todie. And I sat there just
stunned, because I knew I'mlike, I forgive her. And it was
like, if there was just thisweight that fell off our entire
relationship, and it also put inperspective all the things that
I had been upset about withhaving to be a caretaker all the
sudden just looked like thishuge gift. I was like, she's
(39:18):
gonna pass. And we justaccelerated through healing of
decades of stuff. And I don'tthink we could have done that in
a normal situation. I reallydon't. So it was really
incredible to to feel like, tofeel it like I forgive her.
Yeah,
JJ (39:38):
that that is and that that was my favorite thing. One of
the my I have all kinds offavorites. She does. You wrote
the biggest gift was forgivenessof everything in your caregiver
story, the biggest gift wasforgiveness. And I love that.
Natalie (39:52):
So the other thing that you talk about because I'm
looking at our time, but I'mlike, again, I don't care. I'm
like. Don't care. So you talkabout four very important
lessons. Let's go through thelessons, because I think they're
actually really good lessons.
Let's start with that you couldthese are lessons that you could
(40:13):
only see in hindsight. So afteryour mom passes Lesson number
one.
Unknown (40:22):
So well the first one obviously forgiveness, because
when someone passes your mind,goes into the past, all the
memories of the past andeverything. And so I could
actually stand up at hercelebration of life and talk
about all the good things withher and not the bad. So what a
great thing, you know, to beable to stand up there and talk
(40:45):
about what a wonderful woman shewas, and not have to feel like,
oh. But there's also this otherside that you you all didn't
see, yeah, like, so, for sure.
So what a gift, you know,forgiveness is the one and then
two. I've learned the hard waythat asking for help and
accepting help are two totallydifferent things. So I was
fortunate enough in mycaregiving journey to have
(41:08):
access to memory care, to inhome caregivers. I did all of
the above in the journey. I didnot utilize them like I should
have. So I would hire in homecare, and then feel guilty that
I wasn't taking my mom to thegrocery store. So then I would
drive 30 minutes go take her tothe grocery store, drive 30
(41:29):
minutes back, and then becompletely spent to deal with my
own family who had been at home,you know, waiting for me to get
back to do something. So it was,it was not the right use of the
help at all, and they werewilling to help. And then even
at memory care, I'd find myselfdoing things that they could
easily do, or not taking thetime away, even though she was
(41:50):
in good hands because of, again,Guilt. Guilt is the thing that
just now guilt
Natalie (41:58):
that's super powerful.
Unknown (42:01):
Oh yeah, just like, oh, I should do this, or I should
all the shoulds. I should dothis, I should do that. So that
was definitely for me, you know,learning to not just ask for
help, but accept it as well. Wasanother one, yeah,
Natalie (42:15):
tell me about humor.
Because, you know, we haverelate, educate, inspire laugh.
There is a reason laugh is inthere and it is laugh because
it's the last thing on my mind,in the sense of, I am always
going to laugh through some ofthe really, really hard, crappy
times. Yeah,
Unknown (42:31):
I'm giggling a little because my therapist would be
like, That's a defensemechanism, but it's for me, it's
how I get through things. And itwould have been hard not to have
the humor and the situation withmy mom, because some of the
delusions were just downrightfunny. I mean, she had one guy
that followed her around,singing all the time, and I
(42:53):
remember hanging up the phoneand being like, that would be
annoying. Can you imagine justhaving someone always singing
next to you, you know, so, sokeeping a sense of humor about
that, and by the way, thatbecame a gift too, because a lot
of my memories of this time arethe funny ones. Yeah, yeah. So
even though I was going throughthis, like, horrific thing with
my mom, with all thesedelusions, and I felt like I was
(43:17):
trying to talk her through themall the time, those are my my
memories that I still laugh attoday. So it really is a gift.
And I use humor even outside ofit. I mean, if you can't laugh
at life, life is funny. I mean,literally, like, the older I
get, the more I'm like, Man,someone's got a sense of humor.
Yeah,
Natalie (43:37):
that's exactly, right.
That is exactly I think God hasa sense of humor, like, God's
like, Wait, watch this. Justwatch this, you know, and you
also in the last one. And Ithink this is so important
because I don't, I don't knowthat I would have said this,
like, two years ago, when westarted this. I feel like grief
is it's not synonymous, but itcomes with caregiving rather the
(44:01):
person lives or passes ratherlike there is grief, because
there is loss, there is change.
It is grief for the life that Ihad, grief for the life that I
wanted to have. And I thinkabout it, and I'll say this just
for like, you know, our life wasvery different before Jason was
(44:23):
sick. And I look back whenFacebook does those stupid
memories, like, look at 10 yearsago, and I was like, oh gosh,
man, I wish I had realized howhappy I was then, like, it
wasn't as hard. And then I thinkabout, is this what my life is
going to be like? And I don'twant my husband to feel guilty.
I say that very openly, becauseI'm very happy with my life, but
(44:45):
it's not what I thought it wasgoing to be. So I like grief
isn't bound by time, is what yousaid, and that resonates with
me, because I think grief willebb and flow in our lives, for
all kinds of grief. Sense forsure.
Unknown (45:01):
And I think you know when I when I realized that was
a couple of ways. So my fatherpassed away. I guess it was
about 15 years before my mom gotsick, and her being sick, and
that anticipatory grief that waskind of coming up knowing,
because at the backdrop to allof this was I knew she was going
to pass. I knew that she wasgoing to die, and so I was
(45:22):
starting into this grief withher, of letting go of this
first, it was letting go of thismother that I knew, and looking
at this mother I don't know now,and all of that grief. And then
my dad, who I thought I hadresolved my grief with, you
know, I thought I was through. Ihad grieved him when he passed,
all of a sudden came roaringback, and I found myself crying
(45:45):
about things that happened withhis passing. So it just muddled
all together, and it was like,like time wasn't even a thing.
It was they were all together,and the emotions felt very like
they were the day that hepassed. And so, yeah, I really,
it's, it's really interesting tosee grief is one of those things
(46:07):
that really transcends time.
Natalie (46:10):
Oh, I would agree with that, because it's, it was like
we were talking with anotherguest, Shannon, and it was like,
the time going through, it feltlike it was really fast. And
then it also at the same time,at moments. For me, especially,
I could watch the clock ticklike when you were in school and
(46:33):
you're waiting for three o'clockto come, and you're like, and
you just see every second go byand you're thinking, This day is
never going to end. This isnever going to end. And there is
no sense of time. At times incaregiving, I think, and grief
is definitely that, you know,it's time for Sister questions.
I know I do love sisterquestions. I know I love sister
(46:56):
questions. Hey, Sister, what'syour question? First of all, I'm
going to make a
JJ (46:59):
comment. I love comments as well. I just throw them in
there, Michelle, just whateveryou want. Talking. About. The
humor I know when mom had her,she had her episode because she
has Parkinson's, of course, andthe humor with her delusions and
her hallucinations when we had amedication situation, 10 hours
of Knock, knock jokes. Sothere's some there's some humor
(47:22):
for you a drive to the FloridaHospital because we couldn't fly
10 hours of knock knock jokes.
So just think about
Natalie (47:29):
that. TSA would have had some real issues. There's my
labor.
JJ (47:33):
I still get some humor out of that. My husband and I were
like, turn up the radiosomething.
Unknown (47:39):
That's when you start questioning your own sanity
towards the end of it, maybeit's me. It
JJ (47:45):
was like, just put me in the trunk and you were in an SUV.
Nowhere I can go. So here is Ilove humor heels because it is
very healing for us, and I knowit can be a defense mechanism.
Where did the title of this bookcome from? Oh, please did thank
you. Drop acid. Where's thetitle from?
Unknown (48:07):
So one was, I wanted a title that was kind of funny and
catchy, because the book reallytook a humorous tone at the end
of the day. And the very openingscene of the book is a voicemail
my mom leaves me that is justoff the wall, and it really is
the first time that I myhusband, I were just standing
there with our mouths wide open,listening to it on speaker, you
know. And he called her back andgot off the phone, and I
(48:29):
remember standing in the cornerof our bedroom, and I asked him,
I said, Did she drop acid or eata pot brownie? You know? Because
I was, I mean, it was just sooff the wall and out of
characteristic for my mom. Andthen towards the end of writing
the book, I remembered that, andI was like, perfect name. And I
was working in rehab at thetime. I had people that were,
(48:50):
you know, coming off years ofmeth use that were, like,
hallucinating in groups, and Iwas weirdly equipped to deal
with them, yeah, yeah. It waslike, Oh, you're fine. Who lived
there
Natalie (49:00):
well? And you know it is, it is interesting how you're
put into situations into yourlife that you don't realize that
you're being prepared for. Andso if you think about when you
did your own experience withsubstance use, you're then going
and changing to a counselingposition, working with people
(49:21):
who probably they themselves,have gone in groups and talking
with you about hallucinationsand when they were feeling
paranoid. And I like how youjust said I was weirdly prepared
for it. And so you're right, youwere prepared for it because it,
while I'm sure it freaked youout, you know, don't know, even
though that was what you didprofessionally. It's different
(49:42):
between professionally andpersonal, but there is something
to be said for that, how thingswork its way out.
Unknown (49:50):
Oh, I was literally just having that exact
conversation with one of myreally good friends that again,
I don't know if it's just beingin my 50s now and having been on
the earth. A little bit longer,but looking back, every single
thing is preparing you forsomething else. Yeah, I love
that. And you never see it untilyou're like, Oh, yeah. And now,
(50:12):
as I'm a little bit older, Iactually can be in situations
and say, I wonder what this ispreparing me for.
Natalie (50:19):
I love that I agree with that absolutely, you know,
and I love that you've donesomething with this experience,
you know. I think that's why wealways look to to like the
podcast, for me is so important,because I learned from every
guest that we have. I take thatand I take your experience, and
I'll take your experience andI'll internalize that, and I
(50:39):
hope that I am able to givethat, pay that forward and then.
But I think about that, I thinkthat is so important. So I have
a different question than mynormal last question. I'll have
my last question. Got it How arethe boys?
Unknown (50:57):
They're doing so good now. So my younger one is in
college. He's doing great. Myolder one is in med school, and
he's doing great. And I will sayagain, talk about preparing you
for things. His eating disorderreally taught him how to get
(51:19):
through hard things like and tosee yourself doing it, there's
something to be said for seeingyourself get through hard
things. And he has this strengthnow that's just amazing. And and
we watch him implement this,like mental maturity around
things that really wouldn't bethere if he hadn't gone through
what he had gone through. Andsame for my younger son, so
they're doing fabulous. And I, Imy husband and I now have this
(51:42):
reality that, like, even thoughyour kids grow up and, you know,
you're kind of always stillaround, your role, just plays a
different role. And when theywhen they need you, it's for
bigger things now.
JJ (51:54):
So you just kind of like, it's always going to be money.
It's always going to be money,money, yeah, and
Unknown (51:59):
so we, we we always just take, we have such an
appreciation for, like, they'reat a good place right now, yeah,
like it may change, but rightnow, it's okay. It's wonderful.
That's
Natalie (52:09):
that is great. And I think people always worry about,
are the kids going to be okay?
And sometimes, let's be honest,sometimes the kids aren't okay.
Sometimes the kids aren't okay.
And you know, I think, let meask you this. I have another
question. What would you tellanother sandwich generation
parent? What would your advicebe to them who has kids and who
(52:33):
are trying to care for a parentor a loved one? What's the piece
of advice that you would give tothem? Oh,
Unknown (52:39):
man, pick your battles.
You know, like, there's so muchin this journey that like didn't
need to be battled by me, like,and I look back and it's so
silly. I mean, one really smallexample is my mother had this
tiny little pill that she had totake. I mean, so tiny that you
could hold it on the end of yourpinky, and then she had to split
(53:00):
it in half. And so we wouldfight about this little pink
pill. It took on a very cursednickname in our lives, and I
fought with her nonstop abouttaking that pill. And when I
stopped fighting, I realized thepill was marginally helping. I
mean, marginally it was one ofthose things that the doctor was
(53:20):
like, well, we could, we couldgive this, but there wasn't,
like, a solution to anything,yeah, and I finally just stepped
back, and I was like, You knowwhat? If she takes it, she takes
it. If she doesn't, she doesn't,because it wasn't that critical.
And I can't tell you how manyfights we had about that. And
then that energy that I took onthat took away from my boys or
my family. So, like, pick yourbattles, because it saves up and
(53:44):
stores, like a reservoir ofenergy you can use for other
things and not everything needsto be tackled.
Natalie (53:53):
Wow, that's true. It doesn't caregiving at times.
Feels like it's all a fight.
Yeah? And I think that's,there's a lot of people that are
listening to this will be like,God, I feel all I do is I feel
like I fight I fight thedoctors, I fight the insurance.
I fight my I fight my loved oneto do the things that I think
that will help them be healthy.
And sometimes you just are like,Why does it always have to be a
fight? And so I think you'reright about picking your
(54:14):
battles, because if the housedoesn't burn down and no one
gets hurt, let it go.
Unknown (54:21):
It's like people who have five kids, and by the fifth
kid, they're like, Are youbleeding? Okay, you're fine, you
know?
Natalie (54:27):
Walk it off. Walk it off. Yeah, Jay, I'll let you
have the last question.
JJ (54:33):
All right, here it is. It's Natalie's favorite question I
get to ask, and I'm so excited.
You're welcome. What is shealways says favorite guilty
pleasure, but what is the onething that you do just for
yourself?
Unknown (54:49):
So I immediately want to answer with something that's
probably not the right answer,but it's so in it's in the book,
so I won't, but it's I have sucha sweet habit. I am just awful
with sweets. I. Is my go to itreally is it borderlines and
addiction, it's okay. I probablyshould do something around that.
But, you know, on the list ofthings that's going to take me
(55:10):
out tomorrow, it's, you know,yeah, but what I do do, so
that's one thing that was whatimmediately came to mind, if I'm
honest. But like, I love toexercise. I'm one of those
people who was blessed withloving to exercise. I get that
that's not everybody, yeah, andthat helped me so much, and it
still does today, because it'ssuch a stress relief, and
because I enjoy it, it's justthat extra benefits. Oh,
(55:32):
anything in particular that youlike to do? I like to run. Okay?
I like to run the most, and it'sa good thing I do, because I eat
a lot of sweets
Natalie (55:40):
that, you know what?
It's all about balance, myfriend, it is all about balance.
Well, Michelle, we are sograteful to have you on the show
guys, make sure you check outher book. Did my mom? Did mom
drop out? I love that. Please.
We'll make sure we got all theinformation in the show notes as
(56:03):
well, so where you can findMichelle and where you can find
her book. And Michelle, thanksfor being with us, and
Unknown (56:09):
thank you. And I really appreciate you guys tackling
some of the harder topics too. Ithink it'll really help
Natalie (56:14):
people. We hope so. We absolutely hope so and so until
we confess again, we'll see younext time bye
JJ (56:21):
bye bye.
Natalie (56:24):
Well, friends, that's a wrap on this week's confession.
Thanks so much for listening into the podcast, but before you
go, please take a moment toleave us a review and tell your
friends about the confessionshow. Don't forget visit our
website to sign up for ournewsletter, as well as connect
with us on Facebook, Instagram,LinkedIn, Pinterest and Twitter.
(56:46):
You'll also find the videorecording of all of our episodes
on the confessions website andour YouTube Channel. We'll see
you next Tuesday when we cometogether to confess again. Till
then, take care of you. Okay,let's talk disclaimers. We are
not medical professionals andare not providing any medical
(57:06):
advice. If you have medicalquestions, we recommend that you
talk with a medical professionalof your choice. As always, my
sisters and I at confessions ofour reluctant caregiver have
taken care in selecting thespeakers, but the opinions of
our speakers are theirs alone.
The views and opinions stated inthis show are solely those of
the contributors and notnecessarily those of our
(57:30):
distributors or hosting company.
This podcast is copyrighted, andno part can be reproduced
without the express writtenconsent of the sisterhood of
care, LLC, thank you forlistening to The Confessions of
a reluctant caregiver podcast.
You.
Hey guys, it's your favorite sisters with the
(00:02):
Confessions of a reluctantcaregiver. Podcast. On the show,
you'll hear caregiversconfessing the good, the bad and
the completely unexpected.
You're guaranteed to relate beinspired. Leave with helpful
tips and resources and, ofcourse, laugh. Now let's jump
right in to today's guestconfession.
Unknown (00:24):
Hi, Jay, Hi, Ellen. It's great.
It's great. It's great.
JJ (00:32):
Tony the Tiger. Remember that? Oh,
Unknown (00:34):
it's great. That
Natalie (00:39):
was actually funny.
Yeah, no. It was like Saturday
JJ (00:41):
morning cartoons. Remember that? Gosh, you
Natalie (00:43):
know, I loved Smurfs, snorkels,
JJ (00:46):
yeah, let's move on.
Although, you know, I think thatpeople that watch cartoons, if
you're a caregiver, you know,people talk about watching TV. I
think if you watched a little, Idon't know, Smurfs occasionally,
that would reduce that
Natalie (00:57):
stress. 99 Smurfs.
Yeah, 99 tell you, man, Smurf,we have a guest today.
JJ (01:01):
We don't talk about the guests. Oh, this
Natalie (01:03):
is not a cartoon podcast.
JJ (01:04):
It is not about cartoons today. There we are. There we
are. Although sometimes lifefeels like a cartoon, or maybe
just about
Natalie (01:11):
like that show the Wile E Coyote and the Road Runner,
yes, and you feel like TNT blowsup on y'all run over a couple.
You know, we have a amazingguest today. I'm super excited
we, I mean, we've been trying toget with her. She is, she is a
hard lady to get with, and so Iam very excited to have
Michelle, and I would love foryou to tell folks about
JJ (01:33):
her. Well, thank you for this opportunity. Natalie, oh,
well, I'm sure we don't allowyou
Natalie (01:37):
to. The question is, is, can you read your phone? Is
it big enough? Is the print big?
I have got
JJ (01:42):
it on 20 font. So if she's going to harass me like this,
Michelle, I'm sorry.
Natalie (01:46):
Michelle, very embarrassing
JJ (01:49):
today we have with us.
Michelle Kane, and I'm going tothrow out. First of all, you
know you hear that that termsandwich generation, Michelle is
the reason why that term isthere. Yep, she was 47 when her
mom was diagnosed with Lewy BodyBody dementia. Here's some
highlights of that diagnosis.
(02:09):
All of that came duringlockdown. So it was in 2020, at
the time, and still, Michellehas a husband at that time. She
had a son in high school, shehad a son that was a senior in
college. One of the other thingsabout this, though, and this is
really interesting to me, isthat caregiving, her caregiving
(02:30):
role, stirred up a lot ofunresolved issues, a lot of
emotions, and some of thoseemotions had caused a history of
drinking in Michelle's life, andat that point in 2020 she was
six years sober, which isfantastic, she says, in all the
chaos and in all the messiness,though, of this caregiving
(02:52):
experience, there were gifts,and you are going to love what
the gifts are that she shareswith us. Michelle also wrote a
book, and I love the name.
Natalie (03:01):
This is why we wanted to meet Michelle. Because
Michelle knew how to title.
Yeah, she wrote the book.
JJ (03:06):
Did mom drop acid? I
Natalie (03:10):
like we can relate. We have moments where we're like,
Did mom
JJ (03:15):
just really do that? Did mom drop acid? And those she say
that. She says that title isbasically, it's the book is
about the raw events of ourexperience. And Michelle, we are
so happy to have you here withus today. Thanks
Unknown (03:28):
for
Natalie (03:29):
having me well. And we always like to start we given a
little background. We alwayslike to know about background
of, you know, where you're from,kind of grew up, met your
husband, had some kids like,let's give some background, so
people get a flavor of who youare.
Unknown (03:45):
Okay, so going back, well, I was born in reading
Pennsylvania, although I have nomemory of reading Pennsylvania,
because my parents picked up andmoved to Southern California
when my sister and I were veryyoung. And my sister and I are
Irish twins, so we're 11 monthsapart, okay, which I had no
concept of, until I had kids.
And then I was like, what wereyou thinking, mom? Like, does
(04:06):
that even happen, you know, butthe but so my sister and I are
close, so we're and we were, youknow, I think I was maybe one,
and Danielle was two when wemoved to Southern California. So
all of my childhood andadolescence was spent in the
beach communities down outsideof San Diego. So I was your
(04:27):
quintessential you know, livedon the beach in the summers gal,
and then went to northernCalifornia and went to Chico
State for higher education. AndI went to Chico State a couple
years after it had made Playboymagazine's number one party
school. Oh, wow,
Natalie (04:47):
your parents are like, we should pay for that.
Unknown (04:51):
Anytime I told someone where I went to school, they
were like, oh, that's the numberone party school.
Natalie (04:57):
So I thought it was West Virginia University that.
It's just, it's Chico State hadWVU right before
Unknown (05:03):
I know, yeah, yeah. So needless to say, that didn't
help the descent into thedrinking, but that's a whole
nother story, yeah. But so mysister went to Chico State as
well. So we actually followedeach other to college also, and
then I met my husband, my see Iguess it was going out of my
junior year in college into mysenior year, and we were married
(05:25):
really young. When I look backat pictures of us, I mean, I
literally it was we look likekids. Oh yeah, you were 12, you
know, because I was 22 justabout to turn 23 when we got
married. So we spent our lastsemester in college, actually
married. No kidding, yeah, Iremember my parents were so
concerned that I wasn't going tograduate and finish. You know,
(05:48):
you're like, in that last mile,and my dad just was like, Please
finish. Please finish. But wedid, and I moved, took a job in
public relations, out of collegeand moved to San Francisco,
commuted into the city, and thenmy husband and I kind of sat
back at one point and decided ifwe were going to have a family,
(06:09):
we needed to find somewhere thatwas a little more conducive to
that life. Because I wascommuting an hour and a half, he
was commuting an hour and ahalf. There was just we couldn't
even fathom how we could have afamily in that situation, and
people do it just at the time.
For us, didn't feel like thatwas going to work. So we picked
up and moved to Austin, Texas,and we've been in Texas ever
since, wow.
Natalie (06:29):
I mean, that is not remotely close, like Texas. I
mean, you went to and although,although, I will say, if you
lived in in, say, outside SanDiego, and then Austin, I love
keep their motto is, Keep Austinweird. I think it's, I think
that's what it is. I loveAustin. It's really, it's a cool
(06:50):
town, and not that it's not ait's not that it's a town like
there's five people, but there'sa lot of people, but, um, so
why? Why? Why Texas? I mean,you're from PA, you moved to
California. Texas is not exactlylike California, except for
Austin, maybe,
Unknown (07:06):
yeah, well, and so my mother was from a small town in
Texas, Bryan, which is it abutsCollege Station. And everybody
knows college station for TexasA and M. So we would come back
and visit Texas relatives allthrough my childhood. And then
we had some very good familyfriends that also lived in
Austin, so we would come seethem. So when I started looking
(07:28):
for that equation of, kind offeels like a small town, but
also has employment, oh, youknow, back in the late 90s, that
was Austin and so, yeah, so itreally fit the bill. And we kind
of packed up the, you know, fourbelongings that we owned at that
time and our dog.
Natalie (07:46):
That's true. Don't you love it when you were poor?
Yeah. I'm like, we have nothing.
When you're out of college,you're like, we have nothing.
It's fine, but we haveeverything.
Unknown (07:55):
Yeah? It's like, this, there is an ease to it, right?
Yeah, it is
Natalie (07:58):
true. I mean, there was life was a lot easier when we
had less less things, to behonest. So you guys moved there,
you moved to Texas, and this isbefore the boys were born,
right?
Unknown (08:09):
So, right. I had my first son, we I mean, we were
barely in Texas. Think we weremaybe a year in Texas, and I had
my first son, and then I had myyounger son three and a half
years later, so
Natalie (08:23):
and so your mom was your mom living in Texas at the
time,
Unknown (08:27):
no, but she soon followed. So the and I laughed
saying that, because you knowit, you know, and I think you
may have touched on it in thebio, but my mom and I had a very
complicated relationship. And soone of the things to my story as
a reluctant caregiver is reallycaring for somebody that you
know maybe you didn't have thisreally friendly relationship all
(08:49):
through your life with. And so Ihad left California, kind of
like, Yay, freedom. And she andmy dad were still in California.
And it wasn't that we had thishorrible relationship. We talked
on the phone and stuff. I didn'tnecessarily want her in my
backyard, right? Yes, so I movedto Texas, and, of course, her
family is here, so I have a herfirst grandbaby, and then it's
(09:14):
quickly, she buys a house inTexas and starts splitting time
here. So so it was a little bitof a mixed bag, you know. And
she she ended up after my dadpassed away, my dad passed away
and 2006 Mm, hmm. So my mombecame a widow, and then she was
out here in in College Stationagain in Texas, to help her
(09:35):
sister care for their mom. So,yeah, life comes full circle.
I'm realizing you kind of end upback in the town you were in
before.
Natalie (09:44):
No, that's interesting that your mom moved. Did she
move for to help care for hermom alongside her sister? Or was
it kind of like this works andI've got my first grandbaby, and
this is where all my people are.
Are, because we're all aboutyour people, like all of our
people are in Tennessee, and sowas it like a multitude of
things? And you were like, Yeah,I kind of moved to, you should
(10:07):
stay.
Unknown (10:11):
So there was a series of years in between me having
the grandbaby and my mompermanently coming to Texas. So
she spent, she spent kind ofhalf, half time in Texas, when,
when my son was born, then withmy dad passing, she she went
through a lot of depression, andshe was just kind of hauled up
(10:31):
in San Diego, and her sisterconvinced her to come out to
help care for their mom. Littleside story on that too. She and
her mother had a verycomplicated relationship. In
fact, I can count on one handhow many times I saw my
grandmother growing up and when,when she was in town, you could
literally, even as a child, Icould feel the tension between
(10:53):
those two and so, so for her tocome out and help her sister
towards the end was was kind ofa big deal, because they and
they hadn't really had thislovey dovey relationship, but it
brought her to Texas, and Ithink her sister knew that she
needed that at the time. Sheneeded to get out of San Diego,
where all the memories were, andI think that that was the silver
(11:15):
lining for that. So it's sointeresting, the older I get,
the more I'm like, noteverything in life is all good
or all bad, right? So she, shecame out, and that was a good
thing. But then, on the flipside, I wasn't super excited
having her permanently in Texas,so good and bad, right? Yeah,
Natalie (11:31):
that totally makes sense.
JJ (11:32):
Oh yeah. Let me ask you a question. So I hear you saying,
you know, her relationshipwasn't stellar with her mom and
I Same, same thing with you. Youknow, there was definitely
tension there. Did your mom? Wasit a reciprocal feeling, like
your mom knew that you all had atense relationship? Or did she
think everything was finebecause that type of
relationship with her mom, shewas just used to it?
Unknown (11:53):
Yeah, that's a really good question. You really
realize that you pass thingsdown, generate like through the
generations when you startseeing these patterns? I think
I'm going to say, No, my mom didnot have a lot of insight on on
her stuff, let's say and so eventhough she would talk about her
(12:14):
mom and having this reallystrained relationship, she
didn't see it in her own girls.
So I mean, and here's why I knowthat, because at the same exact
time she and my sister werebarely speaking, it was like she
didn't even have anotherdaughter. So yeah, so here you
have this completely strangerelationship with one daughter,
and then complaining about herrelationship with her mom, but
(12:37):
not seeing it in herself.
Natalie (12:41):
Yeah, that is, that is.
So I know that. So you go andyou have, you have your oldest
son, then you have next babynugget. Because I love baby
nugget, yeah, and then, and lifekeeps moving, right? Life keeps
moving. But there's always this,this change that really, that
really does something that thatchanges the dynamic. And so what
(13:05):
is care typically comes in acrisis or slow burn. Would you
say it was crisis or slow burn?
Unknown (13:15):
In regards to my mom?
Oh, crisis. Yeah. She we were inthe middle of the pandemic. I
mean, we had literally just goneinto lockdown, so we, I wasn't
seeing her as often as I wouldhave been. It didn't mean there
were months going by, but itjust we weren't seeing each
other as much. Yeah, and I itwas, it took me weeks to figure
(13:37):
out that something was off,like, not even wrong, just off.
And then it went from that to,she's hallucinating. We need to
go to a neurologist. And it was,it felt like it just landed in
my life, if that makes sense,and then, then you're just
trying to play catch up. It'slike, okay, we have this
doctor's appointment and thisdoctor's appointment, and what
(13:58):
is this? Are you sure it's that,you know? So it was just so
fast, yeah,
Natalie (14:04):
so let me ask you this, because it sounds like, you
know, I hear you saying that youand your sister had a tenuous
relationship with your mom andbut it sounds like you were the
winner for being the primarycaregiver for your mom, if the
relationship was more strainedbetween she and your older
sister,
Unknown (14:25):
for sure. So I always say, you know, my sister and my
mother's relationship makes myrelationship with my mother look
uncomplicated. There you go,yeah. So it's, it's, you know,
it's on a pendulum. You're like,well, in the grand scheme of
things, I also had proximity. Somy sister is in California, and
I was, you know, we're both inTexas, and I was maybe 30
(14:48):
minutes away from her. So, so itwas also proximity, which there
were times when I would get intomy kind of resentful self that I
was like, if I just stayed outof Texas, this would have never
happened. I.
Natalie (15:00):
I know so many people feel that way about Texas. I
know so, so, so I, you knowwhat, I'm going to take a break
right here, like, because we'regoing to, we're going to get in
the middle, because we're in thepandemic. Mom is having some,
some weird behavior where kidsare in school varying levels,
(15:21):
because you've got to split and,and, yeah, and, and then we
just, there's stuff, yeah, let'stake a break
Unknown (15:31):
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JJ (16:21):
All right, everybody, we are back here with Michelle Kane,
and during the pandemic, and momhas started acting, started
acting weird. I think that's,you know, abnormal, and she's
gone through multiple phases, Iguess, of diagnosis, and you get
that diagnosis and what did?
What is the diagnosis? Michelle,
Unknown (16:41):
so I'll back up a little, because I know that
people have a hard time gettinga Lewy Body diagnosis. Super
challenging. We lucked out, andI didn't even know what it was,
I mean, until it was in my life,I couldn't have told you what
Lewy body dementia was. And wewent to a neurologist who really
nailed it out of the gate, and,and, and I don't even think I
(17:03):
knew how lucky that was untilway later, and she was diagnosed
with the side that is likeParkinsonian Louis Bonnie
dementia first, because herParkinsonian side was the thing
that he could see the most,which ironically, was not as
prevalent. To me, it was thehallucinations that I was hung
(17:23):
up on, but for him, it was theParkinsonian movement disorder
side. So he said, I can't, Ican't diagnose you, because you
have to go to a neuro psychevaluation for that. But on my
short list, it would be, youknow, LBD. And so I went, Okay,
and then you go and you have anMRI, you do a neuro psych test,
(17:44):
which is, by the way, like thisfive hour questions drawing
things. I'm like, when my momwas doing it, I thought, I don't
know if I would pass I was kindof, like, over her shoulder,
like, Man, this is
Natalie (17:53):
exhausting. When you're not sure if you're going to pass
a test, you're like, Oh God
Unknown (17:59):
no. It's like, I gotta remember when I took a four hour
test last you know. So, so itreally and the MRI came back as
typical for her age, whichleaves you like, well, what does
that mean? So again, Lewy Bodyyou really don't see on a scan
until postmortem. So, so it's alittle bit of a difficult one to
diagnose, and that's why, whenRobin Williams, wife came out
(18:22):
with that documentary that shedid, I was so grateful to her,
because I sat down and watchedit and helped enlighten me on
everything that I had going oncurrently in my life. So yeah,
so we had the diagnosis. Butreally what, what stood out to
me during that time was thedelusions. I mean, we went from
having normal conversations tomy mom to her calling and
(18:44):
leaving me voicemails about mysister and I being in the back
room and how we haven't eatenfor days. You know, so and
you're trying to put ittogether, because you, your
brain's always trying to makesense of things. So you're like,
well, was I there? I guess I wasthere, like, maybe a week ago,
she thinking about that when, Iknow lives in California, and
(19:04):
then it just went from there.
She's talking about a dog thathad passed away years ago, and
how she had fed her, and she wasin the kitchen with her, things
like that. So it was constantwith that.
Natalie (19:16):
Was she still living on her own, she was
Unknown (19:19):
and that's a whole nother challenge that I know I'm
not unique in and caregiving iswhen is it not safe anymore for
someone to live at home? And forus, it was when the delusional
world became paranoid. That'show I realized, when you in
Texas, we have what's calledSilver alerts, which is where
(19:40):
they they do billboards when theelderly has, you know, wandered
off, yeah? And I used to kind ofgiggle at that, and then I was
like, oh my goodness, mymother's gonna become a Silver
Alert. Because when that, whenthat paranoia hit, I could
totally see her leaving herhouse. Yeah, he was convinced
that her neighbor's son wastrying to take her house. And
she would call. Me at four inthe morning and leave me these
(20:01):
very frightening messages abouthim being in the back room and
we needed to get a lawyer. And,you know, the the rational side
of me was like, that would bereally scary. I could see why
she'd want to leave her house.
Yeah. So then it became this maddash to find somewhere to put
her
Natalie (20:17):
yeah. So before the put let's go and talk about the rest
of your life. Because you're amama. You have a son. The
younger son is in high school.
The older son is in college. Youhave a husband. I don't know, a
job life, and so at this point,it feels like especially, and
(20:39):
the pandemic slowed us all down.
It stopped all of us, right? Andit's and it affected our lives
in very different ways,individually and so, no, I don't
think one experience is the samefor each one of us. So, and then
caregiving was like, thepandemic was like, Oh, watch
this. We're going to do this foryou as well. So what's going on
(21:02):
at this point with marriage andthe boys and work and trying to
navigate? Oh yeah, mom can'tstay at home any longer,
Unknown (21:11):
right? So I'll start with my job at the time, because
it was kind of unique. Also,just because of the pandemic, I
was working at a detox facilityfor substance use, and so we had
a wait list at that time. As youcan imagine, drinking went
through the roof, and so thatthat meant I was an essential
worker, so I actually got toleave the house all the time,
(21:33):
which was kind of funny, becausemy family was jealous, yeah,
like, Oh, where are you going?
Because they were stuck at home.
So I was working at detox at thetime, my younger son was in high
school, had come home, but atthat time, it was right around
spring break, and they were kindof talking about whether or not
they would go back into theclassroom. So we weren't really
(21:54):
sure. My older son had broughtone duffel bag home from Texas
Tech and thought he was goingback to college. He had just
come home from spring break onlyto find out that he was going to
be spending months with hisparents, so he was excited about
that.
Natalie (22:09):
No sarcasm, yeah.
Unknown (22:12):
So, you know, fast forward a little a couple months
in to the pandemic, and my mom'sstill having her hallucinations,
and I'm trying to juggle that Ihave my younger son, who is now
basically passing one class, youknow? And, yeah, I mean, he's
decided he literally on his own,without talking to us. He's gone
from being a straight A studentto literally having a, I think
(22:33):
it was a c minus in one classand failing out of all the other
classes, and basically decidedthat he wasn't, you know, he'd
just get his GED and figure itout, and he had already been
accepted to college. So his dadand I were like, you know,
trying, not we were trying tostay calm, as you do as parents,
but inside, you're just freakingout. Yeah, so my husband took
(22:55):
that conversation because atthat time, oh, boy, you probably
didn't want me taking thatconversation, because the rabbit
hole, you know, I was so strungout with my mom, and I was like,
you do that one? And got himback on track. It turns out the
teachers were very aware thatthe kids were struggling, and it
was just a mess of stuff. And wegot him back on track. And no
(23:15):
sooner did we get him back ontrack that my older son go, he
went ahead and went to Miami forhis grad program. And months in,
I knew something was off. Youknow how you hear your kids on
the phone and you just your gutis like, something's not quite
right, but you can't exactly putyour finger on it, and I was
really distracted with all thestuff with my mom. So whereas I
(23:35):
might have gone into Miami, hadit not been the pandemic, and
had I not had all the stuff withmy mom. I didn't do that this
time, and so he called me out ofthe blue, I guess we were
probably maybe six months intomy mom's diagnosis, and we were,
we weren't in lockdown,technically anymore, but we
really were, because nothing wasopen, right, you know? And he
(23:58):
called me, and he was at someclinic, and he was talking about
things that just didn't makesense, like that. He had stomach
problems and, you know, andthere was just something off,
because that was not him. And Isaid, you know what's going on?
And he just this little voicecame over the phone. He's like,
Mom, I just need to come home.
And I was like, we'll get you aplane ticket, you know, like
(24:18):
we're and I said, Look, just goahead and get the plane ticket
and let us know when you'recoming in. And then I got this
text, and he was coming in,like, that night. Wow, so I knew
something was wrong. And when wepicked him up from the airport,
yeah, he had, I mean, this wasthe beginning of an eating
disorder that had been takenhold when he went to Miami and
he got off that plane and lookedlike a skeleton, and his dad and
(24:42):
I just got quiet, we just werelike, Oh my gosh. So we had that
come in. So I had one childfailing at a high school and
deciding that he was going tojust not go ahead and go to
college. I had another one thatcame home with an eating
disorder, and then I have my momcalling me at 4am to. Telling me
the the son of her neighbor istrying to take her out. How's
(25:02):
your
JJ (25:04):
husband doing? I mean, you guys are still married. I think
that's great. Y'all,
Unknown (25:08):
you know. And I would love to say that, you know. But
the reality is, Travis and I, attimes, had the coping skills of
toddlers, you know? I mean,yeah, you just had a place where
your behavior is not the best,you know. And so we would snap
at each other for the most part.
Oh, man, I was so lucky to havemy husband. Yeah, I thought
about it all the time. There area lot of people who were going
(25:30):
through what I was going throughwithout any help from a spouse.
And so, yeah, he was, he wouldjust take a deep breath and
listen, and he, you know, hewould, at times, go up and deal
with my mom when he knew that Ineeded a breather from it.
JJ (25:46):
Yeah, I want to, I want to ask a question, because I think
when we talked about it earlier,we've never had anyone that was
very open with us. You have allthese stressors going on in your
life, Michelle, but you alsowere open about the fact that
you were six years sober, andyou brought that up to us
because that's so important toyou. Tell me about that
background and what was going onin your life. Were there ever
(26:10):
those times when you thought, Ican't do this anymore? How did
this impact you and go back toour old behaviors? Yeah, yeah.
Unknown (26:18):
So I'm actually excited to talk about this, and it's,
it's a long road for me, andwhen I first got sober, I was
very ashamed of and I didn'ttalk about it very often. And so
to be in the place now where I'mlike, oh, I want to talk about
this, because I know it's notunique, and there are people out
there that are caregiving andand that kind of falls in two
camps, where you're like me, andyou're sober and you're trying
(26:38):
to stay sober, or you'resomebody who's drinking is
accelerating, yeah, because ofthe pressures of caregiving. So
for either one of thoselisteners, I hope this helps. So
for me, I'll back up. I gotsober when I was 42 Yeah, and
changed careers at that time. Sothat is why I went into the
counseling side, and it put meinto substance use counseling
(27:00):
and mental health. So that's whyI was at detox when when I was
when the pandemic hit. But so Iwas about six years down the
road when this hit, and I'lltell you what, whereas in early
sobriety, not drinking, issitting right in front of your
face, you think about it all thetime, like don't drink, you're
doing all the things to makesure that you stay healthy and
(27:21):
your mind and your body and allthose things are so focused on
just staying sober and mentalhealth being a thing six years
down the road, it was less infront of my face, because I It
wasn't something that I thoughtabout every day. Yeah, and
there's a little bit of a jaggededge on that, because had it
(27:41):
been where I thought about itmore, it probably wouldn't have
sideswiped me. And I'll give youan example. So I did not
relapse, but I I came very closeand and what it was, was the it
was the day after, I dropped mymom at memory care, and I went
and now knowing the stuff that Ihad just told you about both
sons and all the things thatwere happening. I wasn't paying
(28:04):
attention to all the layers ofstress in my life. So I drop her
off, I go the next day, sheopens the door and just starts
sobbing and telling me, I can'tstay here. It's awful. You have
no idea how awful this is, and Ihad to hold it together and not
cry in front of her, becausethat wouldn't have helped the
(28:24):
situation. But it was awful tosee your parent cry and to know
that there's literally nothingyou can do. She was where she
needed to be, so I just talkedher through that very calmly,
and I got in my car and I left.
Alcohol was nowhere on my mindwhen I got in my car, I pull
into the grocery store parkinglot because I need to get some
milk, very innocent, and all ofa sudden I start thinking about
(28:46):
wine, what is going on. And I,you know, I was so blessed at
that time to immediately My mindwent to all the things I had
heard sitting in AA meetings ofpeople who had been through
tremendous things. And Iremember this one lady very
vividly talking about pullinginto a grocery store parking lot
(29:07):
after her son had died, and justsitting there and not wanting to
do it and leaving. And Iremember that stuck with me so
much because I was in earlysobriety. And honestly, I
remember thinking, God, I couldnever do that. I would, probably
would have drank, you know. Andhere I was six years down the
road, and a very heavy,emotionally charged thing, and
(29:27):
before I knew it, I had put mycar in reverse and was was
coming out. And then Iimmediately told on myself. I
got home, and I said to myhusband, hey, I don't want to
scare you, but man, I was reallyclose to relapsing today, his
poor face, I watched his facekind of get really worried, and
I said I didn't, and I did allthe things I know to do, but
(29:48):
man, I must be under a lot ofstress that I didn't realize how
stressed I was, and thosedefensives had come down. So it
was a real eye opener for methat I probably. Needed
truthfully, because there was alot of stress in my life, and
that could have gone the otherway. Yeah, and so I think it's
really important to talk about Imissed all the layering of
stress that contributed to thatsituation being what it was.
Natalie (30:14):
I mean, that's that's truly what any counselor and
group that works withindividuals, whether your
substance use disorder or goinginto a dark place, kind of going
back into depression and thingslike that, is really having the
self awareness and you hope thatyou're in that you always hope
that the interventions and thegroups and all the conversations
(30:36):
and all the stories help you tobe insight oriented and behavior
modifying, and it worked. Imean, what your story is is it
worked, and it it diverted youfrom making a choice that would
have been hard to step backfrom. Doesn't mean that you
couldn't have stepped back fromit, but that's six years and
(30:57):
that that that matters. And so Ithink you know that's a huge
kudos to you, but that selfawareness to say, Hey, I could
have gone, I could have goneinto a bad place. Yeah, let's,
let's stop here and take abreak, and then we'll come right
back. All right.
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JJ (32:02):
you IO, All right, everybody, we are back here with
Michelle Kane, and she's had avictory. She, I think I agree.
She backed out of a grocerystore when, when she was
thinking about buying a bottleof wine after a really, she just
went for milk, and she havealmost dealt with wine, and
she'd been six years sober. Sothat's a victory for me. So I
(32:23):
want to, I want to talk aboutcomplex relationship. And you
wrote in your your caregivingstory that the caregiving for
your mom, it brought up a lot ofresentment and anger that you
could not ignore. And I want totalk about that and how you move
past it, because you foundsomething in your caregiving
(32:46):
experience that you saidsomething joyful in the end, I
think so tell me about it.
Unknown (32:52):
So it really surprised me when so my mother and I, I
had kind of gotten to thatpoint. A lot of people get to
where I felt like our issueswere about what they were going
to be, and I had come to peacewith meeting her where she was,
and that that was just where ourrelationship was at that time,
and that was okay, like, if Iwanted to have any kind of
relationship with my mom, thenthat was what it needed to look
(33:15):
like. So I'd really put to bedresolving any of our past, you
know, and then she got sick, andit unearthed those decades of
dysfunction so fast, and itbrought up this like guttural
anger and resentment that justsideswiped me. I was not
expecting it at all. And My poorhusband, I mean, he probably we
(33:36):
would just sit out on the backpatio, and he just let me talk
and talk through it. But it Iwas really surprised by that.
And I don't know if it wasbecause our roles got flipped,
you know, where all of a suddenI was more the parent and she
was more the child, or if it wasjust this thing that where you
kind of, know, you need toresolve things because this
(33:57):
person is sick. I don't knowwhat it was, but it just
unearthed immediately, and I hadto resolve it without the other
person being able to participatein it.
Natalie (34:09):
Now that is some therapy, because if you really
think about it, I mean, you haveto be able to forgive and and it
just be one sided, you know whatI mean,
Unknown (34:22):
and I'll tell you what.
So one of the gifts thathappened, and of course, you
don't always see this whenyou're in it, you typically see
it as you look back, was thedisease made my mom almost
childlike. So she she got verysmall, especially towards the
end. Her voice became a whisper,which is common with the
Parkinsonian side of it, and shethe delusions were just
(34:45):
constant. So it wasn't reallythis mother that I remember
anyways, when we wereinteracting, but that kind of
childlike stature and herinability to argue with me or
yell. Role allowed me to resolvethings without her
participating, because there wasthis level of A, you're not the
mom I remember. And B, it washard to be mad at somebody who
(35:11):
was going through what she wasgoing through. Yeah. So it
allowed for this, this personthat had been a problem for me
in the past, to to be somethingthat she wasn't, and allow me to
get to that place of forgivenesswith her. Wow,
Natalie (35:30):
there's so many people I think that want to get there,
but don't know how that don't,that don't, and I think that in
our minds, I think maybe as aschildren, you know, you
apologize when you do somethingwrong, you admit this
acknowledgement, so that theother person is validated in
that in a different way. Do youknow what I mean? And so
(35:53):
children, I think, of trauma andabuse depending on it's not even
dependent on the abuse. There'svarious types of abuse, there's
various types of abuse, butchildren have experienced trauma
or in strained relationships. Itmakes it harder. It makes it
harder. And I think you're rightabout you. You have this tense
relationship, and then you getto this certain point, and there
(36:16):
is no arguing. I mean, how canyou even argue with a person who
doesn't have the mental capacityto do so, and then how can you
expect to have a resolution? Ithink there was a book, I don't
know if you've read it with thatOprah Winfrey did with, oh,
what's my favorite? He's myBruce. Bruce Perry. Bruce Perry
(36:38):
is I have, I have a professionalcrush on Bruce Perry. I think
he's wonderful. And it's, it'swhat happened to you, and she
talks about it is a fantasticbook, if people haven't read it.
It really talks about childhoodtrauma, and Oprah talks about
the trauma that she experienced,and how in the very end, and I'm
sitting there crying, I never amcrying. I am. I am a really hard
(36:59):
candy outer shell, and butcrying at the end, where she has
got to come in her mind, I haveto have resolution with my mom,
even if my mom doesn't give itback. And there's something so
freeing about that, and I don'tknow if you felt like that
allowed you a sense of freedom,like I'm not going to carry this
(37:20):
any longer. It doesn't serve me
Unknown (37:23):
for sure. And by the way, I'm glad that somebody else
cried at the end of that book.
There I was out on a walk withmy dogs, and that that scene
just sort of sideswiped me. Iwas like, sobbing, and I'm like,
What's wrong with me? People,
Natalie (37:34):
you gotta listen to the audio book. You have to listen
to you can read it. But theaudio book where, where she and
Bruce Perry are taught. They,they are, they, they speak it
and it is, it is unbelievable.
So anyway, yes, I'm glad
Unknown (37:50):
it's so interesting. As I as a counselor and working in
the rehabs, I talked aboutforgiveness all the time in
groups, and I thought I had apretty good grasp of what
forgiveness looked like, or whatI thought it looked like, right?
And it is freeing in a way thatI can even articulate well.
Because I would have said in agroup like, oh yeah, you'll
(38:12):
you'll feel so much freer. Butit snuck up on me. And I think I
thought forgiveness was going tobe this thing where, like, oh,
just one day I'd say I forgiveyou, and it would be all better.
And that is not how it playedout for me at all. It was like
micro, little things thatlayered together, and then I was
sitting on the couch one day,and it was like forgiveness
dropped down next to me and waslike, Hello, I've been here the
(38:34):
whole time because, like, I itwas like, I found myself saying
to my mom, I love you and I'mnot ready for you to die,
because we were getting towardsthe end, and none of the chatter
followed behind that, none ofthe but you did this, or, Oh, I
wish you had been better at thiswith me. Or it was just, I love
(38:55):
you and I'm not ready for you todie. And I sat there just
stunned, because I knew I'mlike, I forgive her. And it was
like, if there was just thisweight that fell off our entire
relationship, and it also put inperspective all the things that
I had been upset about withhaving to be a caretaker all the
sudden just looked like thishuge gift. I was like, she's
(39:18):
gonna pass. And we justaccelerated through healing of
decades of stuff. And I don'tthink we could have done that in
a normal situation. I reallydon't. So it was really
incredible to to feel like, tofeel it like I forgive her.
Yeah,
JJ (39:38):
that that is and that that was my favorite thing. One of
the my I have all kinds offavorites. She does. You wrote
the biggest gift was forgivenessof everything in your caregiver
story, the biggest gift wasforgiveness. And I love that.
Natalie (39:52):
So the other thing that you talk about because I'm
looking at our time, but I'mlike, again, I don't care. I'm
like. Don't care. So you talkabout four very important
lessons. Let's go through thelessons, because I think they're
actually really good lessons.
Let's start with that you couldthese are lessons that you could
(40:13):
only see in hindsight. So afteryour mom passes Lesson number
one.
Unknown (40:22):
So well the first one obviously forgiveness, because
when someone passes your mind,goes into the past, all the
memories of the past andeverything. And so I could
actually stand up at hercelebration of life and talk
about all the good things withher and not the bad. So what a
great thing, you know, to beable to stand up there and talk
(40:45):
about what a wonderful woman shewas, and not have to feel like,
oh. But there's also this otherside that you you all didn't
see, yeah, like, so, for sure.
So what a gift, you know,forgiveness is the one and then
two. I've learned the hard waythat asking for help and
accepting help are two totallydifferent things. So I was
fortunate enough in mycaregiving journey to have
(41:08):
access to memory care, to inhome caregivers. I did all of
the above in the journey. I didnot utilize them like I should
have. So I would hire in homecare, and then feel guilty that
I wasn't taking my mom to thegrocery store. So then I would
drive 30 minutes go take her tothe grocery store, drive 30
(41:29):
minutes back, and then becompletely spent to deal with my
own family who had been at home,you know, waiting for me to get
back to do something. So it was,it was not the right use of the
help at all, and they werewilling to help. And then even
at memory care, I'd find myselfdoing things that they could
easily do, or not taking thetime away, even though she was
(41:50):
in good hands because of, again,Guilt. Guilt is the thing that
just now guilt
Natalie (41:58):
that's super powerful.
Unknown (42:01):
Oh yeah, just like, oh, I should do this, or I should
all the shoulds. I should dothis, I should do that. So that
was definitely for me, you know,learning to not just ask for
help, but accept it as well. Wasanother one, yeah,
Natalie (42:15):
tell me about humor.
Because, you know, we haverelate, educate, inspire laugh.
There is a reason laugh is inthere and it is laugh because
it's the last thing on my mind,in the sense of, I am always
going to laugh through some ofthe really, really hard, crappy
times. Yeah,
Unknown (42:31):
I'm giggling a little because my therapist would be
like, That's a defensemechanism, but it's for me, it's
how I get through things. And itwould have been hard not to have
the humor and the situation withmy mom, because some of the
delusions were just downrightfunny. I mean, she had one guy
that followed her around,singing all the time, and I
(42:53):
remember hanging up the phoneand being like, that would be
annoying. Can you imagine justhaving someone always singing
next to you, you know, so, sokeeping a sense of humor about
that, and by the way, thatbecame a gift too, because a lot
of my memories of this time arethe funny ones. Yeah, yeah. So
even though I was going throughthis, like, horrific thing with
my mom, with all thesedelusions, and I felt like I was
(43:17):
trying to talk her through themall the time, those are my my
memories that I still laugh attoday. So it really is a gift.
And I use humor even outside ofit. I mean, if you can't laugh
at life, life is funny. I mean,literally, like, the older I
get, the more I'm like, Man,someone's got a sense of humor.
Yeah,
Natalie (43:37):
that's exactly, right.
That is exactly I think God hasa sense of humor, like, God's
like, Wait, watch this. Justwatch this, you know, and you
also in the last one. And Ithink this is so important
because I don't, I don't knowthat I would have said this,
like, two years ago, when westarted this. I feel like grief
is it's not synonymous, but itcomes with caregiving rather the
(44:01):
person lives or passes ratherlike there is grief, because
there is loss, there is change.
It is grief for the life that Ihad, grief for the life that I
wanted to have. And I thinkabout it, and I'll say this just
for like, you know, our life wasvery different before Jason was
(44:23):
sick. And I look back whenFacebook does those stupid
memories, like, look at 10 yearsago, and I was like, oh gosh,
man, I wish I had realized howhappy I was then, like, it
wasn't as hard. And then I thinkabout, is this what my life is
going to be like? And I don'twant my husband to feel guilty.
I say that very openly, becauseI'm very happy with my life, but
(44:45):
it's not what I thought it wasgoing to be. So I like grief
isn't bound by time, is what yousaid, and that resonates with
me, because I think grief willebb and flow in our lives, for
all kinds of grief. Sense forsure.
Unknown (45:01):
And I think you know when I when I realized that was
a couple of ways. So my fatherpassed away. I guess it was
about 15 years before my mom gotsick, and her being sick, and
that anticipatory grief that waskind of coming up knowing,
because at the backdrop to allof this was I knew she was going
to pass. I knew that she wasgoing to die, and so I was
(45:22):
starting into this grief withher, of letting go of this
first, it was letting go of thismother that I knew, and looking
at this mother I don't know now,and all of that grief. And then
my dad, who I thought I hadresolved my grief with, you
know, I thought I was through. Ihad grieved him when he passed,
all of a sudden came roaringback, and I found myself crying
(45:45):
about things that happened withhis passing. So it just muddled
all together, and it was like,like time wasn't even a thing.
It was they were all together,and the emotions felt very like
they were the day that hepassed. And so, yeah, I really,
it's, it's really interesting tosee grief is one of those things
(46:07):
that really transcends time.
Natalie (46:10):
Oh, I would agree with that, because it's, it was like
we were talking with anotherguest, Shannon, and it was like,
the time going through, it feltlike it was really fast. And
then it also at the same time,at moments. For me, especially,
I could watch the clock ticklike when you were in school and
(46:33):
you're waiting for three o'clockto come, and you're like, and
you just see every second go byand you're thinking, This day is
never going to end. This isnever going to end. And there is
no sense of time. At times incaregiving, I think, and grief
is definitely that, you know,it's time for Sister questions.
I know I do love sisterquestions. I know I love sister
(46:56):
questions. Hey, Sister, what'syour question? First of all, I'm
going to make a
JJ (46:59):
comment. I love comments as well. I just throw them in
there, Michelle, just whateveryou want. Talking. About. The
humor I know when mom had her,she had her episode because she
has Parkinson's, of course, andthe humor with her delusions and
her hallucinations when we had amedication situation, 10 hours
of Knock, knock jokes. Sothere's some there's some humor
(47:22):
for you a drive to the FloridaHospital because we couldn't fly
10 hours of knock knock jokes.
So just think about
Natalie (47:29):
that. TSA would have had some real issues. There's my
labor.
JJ (47:33):
I still get some humor out of that. My husband and I were
like, turn up the radiosomething.
Unknown (47:39):
That's when you start questioning your own sanity
towards the end of it, maybeit's me. It
JJ (47:45):
was like, just put me in the trunk and you were in an SUV.
Nowhere I can go. So here is Ilove humor heels because it is
very healing for us, and I knowit can be a defense mechanism.
Where did the title of this bookcome from? Oh, please did thank
you. Drop acid. Where's thetitle from?
Unknown (48:07):
So one was, I wanted a title that was kind of funny and
catchy, because the book reallytook a humorous tone at the end
of the day. And the very openingscene of the book is a voicemail
my mom leaves me that is justoff the wall, and it really is
the first time that I myhusband, I were just standing
there with our mouths wide open,listening to it on speaker, you
know. And he called her back andgot off the phone, and I
(48:29):
remember standing in the cornerof our bedroom, and I asked him,
I said, Did she drop acid or eata pot brownie? You know? Because
I was, I mean, it was just sooff the wall and out of
characteristic for my mom. Andthen towards the end of writing
the book, I remembered that, andI was like, perfect name. And I
was working in rehab at thetime. I had people that were,
(48:50):
you know, coming off years ofmeth use that were, like,
hallucinating in groups, and Iwas weirdly equipped to deal
with them, yeah, yeah. It waslike, Oh, you're fine. Who lived
there
Natalie (49:00):
well? And you know it is, it is interesting how you're
put into situations into yourlife that you don't realize that
you're being prepared for. Andso if you think about when you
did your own experience withsubstance use, you're then going
and changing to a counselingposition, working with people
(49:21):
who probably they themselves,have gone in groups and talking
with you about hallucinationsand when they were feeling
paranoid. And I like how youjust said I was weirdly prepared
for it. And so you're right, youwere prepared for it because it,
while I'm sure it freaked youout, you know, don't know, even
though that was what you didprofessionally. It's different
(49:42):
between professionally andpersonal, but there is something
to be said for that, how thingswork its way out.
Unknown (49:50):
Oh, I was literally just having that exact
conversation with one of myreally good friends that again,
I don't know if it's just beingin my 50s now and having been on
the earth. A little bit longer,but looking back, every single
thing is preparing you forsomething else. Yeah, I love
that. And you never see it untilyou're like, Oh, yeah. And now,
(50:12):
as I'm a little bit older, Iactually can be in situations
and say, I wonder what this ispreparing me for.
Natalie (50:19):
I love that I agree with that absolutely, you know,
and I love that you've donesomething with this experience,
you know. I think that's why wealways look to to like the
podcast, for me is so important,because I learned from every
guest that we have. I take thatand I take your experience, and
I'll take your experience andI'll internalize that, and I
(50:39):
hope that I am able to givethat, pay that forward and then.
But I think about that, I thinkthat is so important. So I have
a different question than mynormal last question. I'll have
my last question. Got it How arethe boys?
Unknown (50:57):
They're doing so good now. So my younger one is in
college. He's doing great. Myolder one is in med school, and
he's doing great. And I will sayagain, talk about preparing you
for things. His eating disorderreally taught him how to get
(51:19):
through hard things like and tosee yourself doing it, there's
something to be said for seeingyourself get through hard
things. And he has this strengthnow that's just amazing. And and
we watch him implement this,like mental maturity around
things that really wouldn't bethere if he hadn't gone through
what he had gone through. Andsame for my younger son, so
they're doing fabulous. And I, Imy husband and I now have this
(51:42):
reality that, like, even thoughyour kids grow up and, you know,
you're kind of always stillaround, your role, just plays a
different role. And when theywhen they need you, it's for
bigger things now.
JJ (51:54):
So you just kind of like, it's always going to be money.
It's always going to be money,money, yeah, and
Unknown (51:59):
so we, we we always just take, we have such an
appreciation for, like, they'reat a good place right now, yeah,
like it may change, but rightnow, it's okay. It's wonderful.
That's
Natalie (52:09):
that is great. And I think people always worry about,
are the kids going to be okay?
And sometimes, let's be honest,sometimes the kids aren't okay.
Sometimes the kids aren't okay.
And you know, I think, let meask you this. I have another
question. What would you tellanother sandwich generation
parent? What would your advicebe to them who has kids and who
(52:33):
are trying to care for a parentor a loved one? What's the piece
of advice that you would give tothem? Oh,
Unknown (52:39):
man, pick your battles.
You know, like, there's so muchin this journey that like didn't
need to be battled by me, like,and I look back and it's so
silly. I mean, one really smallexample is my mother had this
tiny little pill that she had totake. I mean, so tiny that you
could hold it on the end of yourpinky, and then she had to split
(53:00):
it in half. And so we wouldfight about this little pink
pill. It took on a very cursednickname in our lives, and I
fought with her nonstop abouttaking that pill. And when I
stopped fighting, I realized thepill was marginally helping. I
mean, marginally it was one ofthose things that the doctor was
(53:20):
like, well, we could, we couldgive this, but there wasn't,
like, a solution to anything,yeah, and I finally just stepped
back, and I was like, You knowwhat? If she takes it, she takes
it. If she doesn't, she doesn't,because it wasn't that critical.
And I can't tell you how manyfights we had about that. And
then that energy that I took onthat took away from my boys or
my family. So, like, pick yourbattles, because it saves up and
(53:44):
stores, like a reservoir ofenergy you can use for other
things and not everything needsto be tackled.
Natalie (53:53):
Wow, that's true. It doesn't caregiving at times.
Feels like it's all a fight.
Yeah? And I think that's,there's a lot of people that are
listening to this will be like,God, I feel all I do is I feel
like I fight I fight thedoctors, I fight the insurance.
I fight my I fight my loved oneto do the things that I think
that will help them be healthy.
And sometimes you just are like,Why does it always have to be a
fight? And so I think you'reright about picking your
(54:14):
battles, because if the housedoesn't burn down and no one
gets hurt, let it go.
Unknown (54:21):
It's like people who have five kids, and by the fifth
kid, they're like, Are youbleeding? Okay, you're fine, you
know?
Natalie (54:27):
Walk it off. Walk it off. Yeah, Jay, I'll let you
have the last question.
JJ (54:33):
All right, here it is. It's Natalie's favorite question I
get to ask, and I'm so excited.
You're welcome. What is shealways says favorite guilty
pleasure, but what is the onething that you do just for
yourself?
Unknown (54:49):
So I immediately want to answer with something that's
probably not the right answer,but it's so in it's in the book,
so I won't, but it's I have sucha sweet habit. I am just awful
with sweets. I. Is my go to itreally is it borderlines and
addiction, it's okay. I probablyshould do something around that.
But, you know, on the list ofthings that's going to take me
(55:10):
out tomorrow, it's, you know,yeah, but what I do do, so
that's one thing that was whatimmediately came to mind, if I'm
honest. But like, I love toexercise. I'm one of those
people who was blessed withloving to exercise. I get that
that's not everybody, yeah, andthat helped me so much, and it
still does today, because it'ssuch a stress relief, and
because I enjoy it, it's justthat extra benefits. Oh,
(55:32):
anything in particular that youlike to do? I like to run. Okay?
I like to run the most, and it'sa good thing I do, because I eat
a lot of sweets
Natalie (55:40):
that, you know what?
It's all about balance, myfriend, it is all about balance.
Well, Michelle, we are sograteful to have you on the show
guys, make sure you check outher book. Did my mom? Did mom
drop out? I love that. Please.
We'll make sure we got all theinformation in the show notes as
(56:03):
well, so where you can findMichelle and where you can find
her book. And Michelle, thanksfor being with us, and
Unknown (56:09):
thank you. And I really appreciate you guys tackling
some of the harder topics too. Ithink it'll really help
Natalie (56:14):
people. We hope so. We absolutely hope so and so until
we confess again, we'll see younext time bye
JJ (56:21):
bye bye.
Natalie (56:24):
Well, friends, that's a wrap on this week's confession.
Thanks so much for listening into the podcast, but before you
go, please take a moment toleave us a review and tell your
friends about the confessionshow. Don't forget visit our
website to sign up for ournewsletter, as well as connect
with us on Facebook, Instagram,LinkedIn, Pinterest and Twitter.
(56:46):
You'll also find the videorecording of all of our episodes
on the confessions website andour YouTube Channel. We'll see
you next Tuesday when we cometogether to confess again. Till
then, take care of you. Okay,let's talk disclaimers. We are
not medical professionals andare not providing any medical
(57:06):
advice. If you have medicalquestions, we recommend that you
talk with a medical professionalof your choice. As always, my
sisters and I at confessions ofour reluctant caregiver have
taken care in selecting thespeakers, but the opinions of
our speakers are theirs alone.
The views and opinions stated inthis show are solely those of
the contributors and notnecessarily those of our
(57:30):
distributors or hosting company.
This podcast is copyrighted, andno part can be reproduced
without the express writtenconsent of the sisterhood of
care, LLC, thank you forlistening to The Confessions of
a reluctant caregiver podcast.
You.
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