August 26, 2025 • 66 mins
Over the course of several years, Angela Ibarra faced a series of profound losses, including her husband, her mother, her job, and eventually her father. Her caregiving journey began early, shaped by a childhood spent supporting a sister with muscular dystrophy and later intensified as she became the primary caregiver for her mother, who suffered from Alzheimer’s. Angela candidly shares the emotional toll of watching her mother’s personality change, the exhaustion of managing her care, and the heartbreak of feeling both anger and love during her mother’s decline. She describes the unique pain of grieving someone long before their physical passing and the complicated relief that can accompany the end of a loved one’s suffering.
Angela’s story is also one of adaptation and self-discovery. After losing her husband and mother within weeks of each other, and later her father, Angela was forced to confront not only her grief but also the impact these experiences had on her career and sense of self. She speaks openly about the challenges of returning to work, the lack of understanding from colleagues, and the eventual loss of her job, which became a catalyst for seeking therapy and reevaluating her life’s direction. Through writing, connecting with others, and embracing her vulnerability, Angela has found new purpose in sharing her story and supporting others who are navigating similar journeys. Her reflections underscore the importance of self-compassion, the messiness of caregiving, and the ongoing process of healing after loss.
Thank you to sponsor: CareScout
Angela Ibarra is a former VP of HR who spent over 30 years at HP in a variety of leadership roles. Now, she helps entrepreneurs launch their own staffing agencies. She is still figuring out who she wants to be when she grows up. What she can say is that she is a survivor, a storyteller, and a lifelong work in progress.
She has raised an incredible and very spirited daughter who has taught her the importance of having several bottles of red wine on hand at all times.
She now proudly answers to "Gigi" to a growing crew of grandkids, which is a whole different level of joy.
When she's not coaching future business owners, she's probably writing, cooking, sipping wine, or watching animal videos, which is one of her passions. She is known as the animal whisperer.
Whether through poetry, songwriting, or her in-progress book, she believes in the power of sharing stories—the real ones, with heart, grit, and humor. And yes, she’s got a few to share.
Confessions of a Reluctant Caregiver
Sisterhood of Care, LLC
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Natalie (00:03):
Hey guys, it's your favorite sisters with the
Confessions of a reluctantcaregiver. Podcast. On the show,
you'll hear caregiversconfessing the good, the bad and
the completely unexpected.
You're guaranteed to relate, beinspired. Lead with helpful tips
and resources, and, of course,laugh now, let's get to today's
confession. Hey, Jay, hi,Natalie, where in the world are
(00:30):
you right now?
Unknown (00:36):
Get ready. I'm in Cerro Gordo, North Carolina. Do you
know what Sarah gorda means? No,actually, the fat Hill. I'm not
sure what that means. Excepthere's the funny thing, my last
name is Hill, and I found thisplace offensive. I
Natalie (00:49):
would think that would be offensive, to be honest,
Sarah Gorda, the Sarah, I'mthinking, No, that's not Sarah's
the name of the person. Sarah
Unknown (00:59):
s e r federal, well, and I've got that. So in
Natalie (01:02):
other words, you just said Sarah, S, A, R, A, and it's
really, is it? How do you spellit, C, E, R, R. So, okay, so
it's Cerro. So for all of ourSpanish speaking friends, yeah.
So okay, look,
Unknown (01:17):
you killed my Spanish town in North Carolina,
Natalie (01:21):
Spaniards, who came across the ocean that I don't
know if you were a part of thehistory
Unknown (01:26):
lesson, Mayflower,
Natalie (01:28):
what I went we was gone down a whole different path,
because history and theMayflower and our Spaniard
friends, that's not what this isabout. We're talking about
caregiving. All right.
Unknown (01:40):
I got distracted. You know what? I want to get
started, though, because we haveso much today to unpack and oh,
I want to say one thing, Natalieand I have not, not recorded
together in a while. We had tojump back on Riverside today.
This is so hard for me becauseI'm not able to touch and poke
on you.
Natalie (01:55):
I'm really glad you can't touch me, and I have no
clue if you if you brushed yourteeth. I
Unknown (02:00):
did. I did okay. I showed you on YouTube. If
anybody needs to inspect myteeth, you can jump on there.
It's hard for me not to be ableto touch and love on you today.
So
Natalie (02:08):
I'm really glad that you pulled it together and you
actually did something withyourself. No, you should go to
YouTube and watch this, becauseshe looks like crap.
Unknown (02:15):
I didn't I brush my hair. It's humid in North
Carolina. Keep
Natalie (02:19):
going. Let's talk about Angela, because we have an
amazing guest. I know people arelike, can you get to it? Girls,
nobody cares about JJs hair.
Unknown (02:26):
Am I smelled my armpits. They smell. Jay. Keep
going. Okay, sorry, okay. Jay,okay. I'm gonna say this. I
don't know where to start,because when I read Angela's her
backstory on caregiving, I waslike, This is so amazing,
Angela. So I'm gonna throw thatout. First of all, we have
Angela Ibarra. Is that right?
Angela, everybody? I hope it'snot Spanish, okay? So she spent
(02:47):
over 30 years in a variety ofleadership roles, and I love
that. Now. She helpsentrepreneurs launch their own
staffing agencies, because Ilove helping entrepreneurs. In
the beginning, she says she'sfiguring out who she wants to be
when she grows up. I'm stilldoing that too. She is a
survivor. She is a storytellerand a lifelong work in progress.
(03:09):
But I'm gonna tell you guys, thepast few years have been I'm
gonna say she wouldn't recommendthem to anyone. In the span of
four years, she lost herhusband, her mom, her job, and
then her dad, and she says it'sbeen like the grief buffet,
except no one asked for seconds.
(03:30):
I'm not going any further, guys,because Angela's story is
amazing, and she's the one hereto share it. I've
Natalie (03:35):
never heard you, no, Jay, I've never heard of
somebody refer to it as a griefbuffet. I mean, she lies down
there right up front that thatsets the tone for what we're
going to talk about today. Andif caregiving is synonymous with
grief, if you really think aboutit, you know, Angela, we're
thrilled to have you here today.
So first, let me just say we'rethrilled to have
Unknown (03:55):
you here. Yeah, thank you. I'm glad to be here too.
Natalie (03:58):
Yeah. And she's a real team player, because it's six
o'clock in the morning whereshe's at and she looks like
magic. So watch for JJ, so youcan be like, JJ, just got out of
bed, and then look at Angela andthink she's on the cover of
Vogue. She's, I'm telling you,right now. So you're channeling
your inner Sarah. JessicaParker, you're looking beautiful
(04:18):
lady. All right. So you know itis true. Grief is it does. And I
think we have never reallystarted this way. Grief really
is synonymous with caregiving,because there's an element of
loss, whether you lose yourloved one or not, because
caregiving has this rippleeffect of how it impacts your
(04:39):
life, positive and challengesand negative. And really it is
negative. Sometimes negativethings happen. So, yeah, so
Angela, let's start from thebeginning, you know, I always
like to say, let's start fromthe beginning. You were born,
and then kind of skip to otherparts, but mostly tell us, give
us a little backstory. Tell us alittle bit about who you are,
you know, and that sort ofthing. And kind of walk us up
(04:59):
to. It when care first began.
Unknown (05:01):
Okay, perfect. Well, I came from pretty much a basic
loving Catholic family, soconfessions are pretty
synonymous for me. So this is aperfect podcast for me to be on.
Natalie (05:15):
So like that feels good. We heard ourselves as the
sisters, and we say Baptist, notCatholic, yeah,
Unknown (05:24):
but I had a wonderful mom and dad and two sisters and
a brother. My childhood was wasa little bit different in the
fact that I had a sister thatwas born with muscular
dystrophy. She died when I wasnine years old. And I remember
being nine and going, oh mygosh, you know, is God going to
come down and take me away? Iwas afraid to walk down the
(05:47):
hallways. I was afraid to dothings, because I just wasn't
sure I understood what all thiswas. But I have such a clear
vision in my head. She died fourdays before Christmas. So it's
Christmas is always a reallytough time for me. But I
remember my mom handing out theChristmas presents, trying not
to cry, giving us our gifts, andwe were all trying to be excited
(06:10):
about it. I was still young, soof course, I'm excited about
what I get. I'm not really fullyunderstanding everything. And I
remember my mom trying to, youknow, to give out the gifts and
try to smile and be happy. And Iremember at that moment, I was
so clear in my head, even today,that I realized how much my mom
was like a superhero to me, forher to know that she was this
(06:33):
sad, but she was still justtrying to be the strong person
for her three other children. Iremember thinking my mom is my
hero, and I think that's wheremy mom and my from. Just that
beginning, I had this utmostrespect and love for her, and we
became a really close bond. Mymom was literally my best friend
(06:53):
growing up, you know. So justlots of love, lots of, you know,
growth, and she was my biggestcheerleader all the time. You
know, if somebody was picking onme, she'd go defend me. You
know, if I was having a bad dayand I was afraid to do
something, she'd say, Never showyour fear. Just walk into a room
and act like you own the place.
She just always inspired me. AndI think that, you know, that is
(07:15):
why the journey of my mom andher, you know, her life, which
we'll get to in a moment, wasvery hard for me, and I'm still,
to this day, processing allthose feelings, a little bit of
anger still there with her forit's not her fault for having
Alzheimer's and the way it went,but I still feel a little bit of
that hurt and anger towards herthat loved it and conquer all,
(07:37):
you know, and being broke Withthose things that you think are
going to happen. Then I, youknow, grew up a little bit more.
We moved around a few times. Ididn't know what I wanted to do
100% and so I kind of went tocommunity college, and then I
finally got a job that was witha smaller company that Hewlett
Packard bought out and a bigcompany and and I stayed there
(07:59):
for almost 31 years, and I grewup there. It was the most
amazing job I could have everhad. Taught me everything I
needed to know, great mentors. Ihave no regrets, other than it
just started breaking apart. Youknow, as you saw that, they
split up the whole company, itjust wasn't the company that I
wanted anymore.
Natalie (08:21):
So let me ask you, because we're interrupting cows,
yes, we'll move, we'll moveright all over you before we
move on out of your childhood.
Let me ask you this, becausewhat birth order you are? You?
What birth order? I'm a Leo, no,but what? Oh, you're Oh baby.
Unknown (08:38):
I'm an August baby, and I'm
Natalie (08:40):
Oh yeah, baby, August 21 ah, JJ is August 5, and our
August 11. And we have cousinsthat are 678, I mean, we've got
we, for some reason, apparently,people got frisky in January,
and so that's my answer.
Everybody. Love the holidays.
(09:01):
Yeah, I'm in December. I don'teven know what to tell you, so
I'm a cap, but I think that'simportant. And I could see where
that would be hard for you,especially losing your sibling.
And that's different too,because you were so young, you
were the baby out of all ofthem. Would you say that your
siblings, your older siblings?
What's the age difference?
Because I'm all interested inthings like that.
Unknown (09:21):
My sister is eight years older, no, 10 years older,
and my brother's eight yearsolder. Did
Natalie (09:28):
they help with the other sister? Your other sister,
who passed with care and youprobably were more observant and
had intermittent little helpywhere you needed? Yes,
absolutely. So you grew aroundyou grew up, is what I would
assume. You grew up in a in aculture of caring for other
people, not just your mom careit's almost like you know you
(09:48):
care down your mom cares down.
Your mom's caring for you, butyou and your siblings really
help take care of one anotherbecause of you had a sibling
with a with an illness, achronic, complex ill. Illness
Unknown (10:01):
Absolutely. And I know that, you know, she was in a
wheelchair from a pretty youngage, and I remember going out to
fairs and doing things, andpeople would make fun of her,
and my mom and I would get somad, and my sister would just
say, it doesn't matter. She hadsuch a light spirit with it, but
she really, she taught us tocare for people. She taught us.
(10:22):
And I think that's a part I'mwriting in a book right now, and
I'm writing a chapter in myfamily, and the first part I say
about her is, you know, she'sshe taught me a lot about
empathy, care, and she wasselfless, you know, she didn't
care. She taught me to speakfluent French. I was very young
and spoke fluent French. I wishI would have kept it up after
(10:44):
she passed. But she was anartist. She was smart, just
because she looked different andhad a disease. To us, she was,
you know, kind of our shininglight. And so to us, it was very
natural and normal. So we neverlooked at anybody differently if
they had, you know, any kind ofdisease or disorder or anything.
We just always treated everybodythe same. That's how we grew
Natalie (11:07):
up. I think that's I think that's important. That's
why I wanted to jump in on thatjust a little bit. Because I
think when you we talked to alot of caregivers, there is a
culture of care and for morepeople than not, that they've
experienced, and that mostpeople don't identify being as
youth caregivers or childcaregivers helping out, because
they think, oh, that's just whatI do. And the reality is, is
(11:29):
that the person that you'rehelping has, has more needs than
the traditional, neurotypicalperson and or perhaps is a
general physically abled person.
So So you you get off, and yougo into the world, you're
working, and you're doing you'redoing life, doing life. And
then, and then, what happens?
(11:50):
What happens? What's the firstbet? Because you're running into
it, because you have kids,you've got life going on. And so
life gets in the way.
Unknown (11:58):
I got married and to somebody from high school, and
we had a beautiful daughtertogether, and he and I did not
work out, let's just say he hadsome addiction problems that
just couldn't be, you know,couldn't be ignored. And so I
had to move on and and I wasworking and making a career for
myself and supporting mydaughter. I had the best mom and
(12:20):
dad that I traveled a lot withmy company so that I was able to
leave my daughter with my momand dad and pursue my career
too. I learned to be independentreally quickly, and I'm not
counting on anybody. So I'vealways kind of just knew that I
had to take care of me and mydaughter. I did try marriage
again, and that did not work outso well, he was one of those
(12:41):
great people that does reallygood when world is good. But
when he lost his job during the,you know, the real estate boom,
we lost our house, we wentthrough a lot of that, you know,
he just couldn't cope with that.
And it was somebody that I had ahard time respecting after that,
when they just fall apart andand so I said, I might as well
do it myself. I can keep myselftogether. I can't focus on
somebody else. So I, you know,I've been through the normal
(13:03):
things. You know, you grow up,you have this. And a lot of
people get married, divorced, Inever really thought about
anything. I just knew I had totake care of, you know, myself
and my daughter and beresponsible. And then my mom was
always smoking. She was a chainsmoker all the time. Would not
quit smoking. She had a lot ofchronic problems and breathing.
(13:26):
And I was constantly runningover to her house to make sure
that she could breathe, andteach her breathing techniques,
and getting calls in the middleof the night because she
couldn't breathe. And I meet thefire trucks and the fire and the
ambulance there, and she'd goback and forth to the hospital,
and she refused to quit smoking.
And she was one of thosepowerful women that's very
(13:48):
independent. You're not going totell her what to do. And she
refused to stop smoking, whichwas very difficult for me,
right? I will tell you that Idid do some online crazy, wild
dating, and I even wrote a bookcalled seriously on it. Never
published it. It was kind of myown therapy, boy can I can tell
you stories about that foranother time, but wrote a book,
(14:08):
and at the end of that book, Irealized that I wasn't really
looking for a man. What I wasreally looking for was something
in me, some something you know,that I could count on with
myself. And so that was my formof therapy, to be honest.
Therapy wasn't talked about withmy family. We're very Catholic.
We don't go to therapy, we don'tair our dirty laundry. So I went
(14:30):
through a lot of all of thosethings with very limited
support. You know, MarriageDivorce is hard. Raising a kid
is hard. My daughter wentthrough some tough times. You
know, with her addictions, isamazing personnel and a mother
of two and a half babies duehere in September, October
timeframe. So we, you know, Iwent through a lot of things
(14:52):
that I thought was normal. Andso I think that I just got so
used to getting hit with curveballs after curve balls. I. To
curve balls that I didn't reallysee him as boy. This is setting
me up for something, I believe,for to be strong for the further
things that was going to happenin my life. So that's where we
(15:14):
get to my mom. Okay, I'm gonna,
Natalie (15:17):
I'm gonna pause this right there, because we're, I
can't believe we're already,like 15 minutes in, oh my gosh,
yeah, so Jay, we're going to beright back. We're going to take
a quick break, and we'll beright back
Unknown (15:28):
looking for care in all the wrong places. Try care
scout. Our care finder helps youlocate long term care providers
in your area who are committedto quality, person centered care
with care Scout, you can alsoorder a personalized care plan
created by a licensed nurse justfor you. So say goodbye to a
path to aging care that'snothing but confusing, and say
(15:51):
hello to a more dignifiedjourney, including providers who
see you as you and a plan forquality care you can feel good
about Learn more at carescout.com.
Hi everybody. We are back, andwe're with Angela. So Angela, we
have gone over your past, youknow, life, growing up,
relationships, and we're at apoint where your mom becomes
(16:15):
ill, or you start to noticesymptoms. So let's talk about
your mom, her illness and thatcaregiving experience. Tell me
how that started.
Because I was so close to my momand my brother and sister
weren't living right by us. Ibecame the number one care
provider for my mom. So shedidn't believe in doctors, and
she didn't believe in going tothe doctor, everything. She was
(16:36):
very private. So I just kind oftook on that role of being the
one my dad was not, you know, hewasn't the typical Italian
Catholic that could go in thereand, you know, and and be soft
and easy with her. He justdidn't know what to do. So he
just kind of froze. So it becamemy my job, pretty much. But what
we started noticing with my mom,I didn't notice for the first
(16:58):
three years, and I feel reallybad about that, but she started
accusing my dad of bringing homeclothes that didn't belong to
Him, asking where he got this,and started thinking that maybe
he was having an affair, allthese different things. And I'm
like, when does he have timemom? But she actually convinced
me, because my mom has alwaysbeen my stable force, so I
(17:18):
believed her for the longesttime, for probably two or three
years and I had a big conflictwith my father. He taught me
He's not lying, he's not doinganything. When do I have time to
do anything? But that was thesigns, the early signs of
Alzheimer's with my mom, andthen then it became that my dad
was trying to kill her, and thathe had other people, and there
(17:38):
was cameras and vents in the inthis, in the ceiling. I mean,
just really, really radicalstories, getting calls at all
hours of the night to run over.
You know, I run over there andtry to help her. And I'd see
that the TV was covered withfoil, you know, she had her
music blaring. She was trying toblock out all these things that
was happening to her. Did it gotso terrible that we had to
(18:01):
remove my dad from the home andhis own home, and he wouldn't
stay with my brother for awhile, with my sister for a
while, while. I tried to kind ofhelp my mom and walk her
through, Mom, I think you needto go to the doctor, and then
she would get mad and angry. Youwere never going to tell her
that anything was wrong withher. So I had a sister who
wanted to, kind of, you know,let her just let my mom go with
(18:24):
what she thought, and neverreally wanted to, to dispute it,
where me and my brother wantedto get her help. And it got to
the point where, you know, mymom fell off of a ladder trying
to get to the Vince to removethe move the cameras that were
in there in her mind, and shebroke her leg, and that's how I
was able to get her to thehospital to have she had to have
surgery and everything. And thenafter that, she just kind of
(18:47):
went from nursing home tonursing home trying to get
rehabilitated. But in thatlifespan, I'll tell you, I think
the system was very flawed withthe dealing with people with
Alzheimer's who don't admit it.
So the fact that she was calling911, in the middle of the night
too, and saying that, you know,her husband was trying to kill
her, and then they were startingto realize that maybe she was a
(19:08):
little altered state, but notenough to take her out of the
home or to commit her yet, AdultProtective Services got called
in on my mom because from thepolice saying she's calling all
the time. So then we're tryingto explain to her that, you
know, what we need from the casemanager, and nobody could do
anything unless she wanted to behelped. So it was really a
challenge. She wouldn't livewith us, she wouldn't go the
(19:30):
doctor, she wouldn't get help.
So we're trying to me, because Ilived here, I was absolutely
exhausted running back andforth, trying to help her
breathe, trying to make herunderstand that she's not, you
know, my dad's not trying tokill her, but trying to make it
so she wasn't angry with me. Shebecame so angry with me, and I
think that's where my heartbroke the most, was, you know,
(19:50):
she said I was the problem. Imean, she she, she hit me a
couple times. Just things thatwere just, you know. Swatted me
away. I wouldn't really say hit,but hitting me is swatting me
away. That just broke my soul,and it was probably the most
challenging. And then going tothe hospitals to visit her and
her, I tried to bring hersomething that I remember one
time I brought her something,and she flipped me off, and she
(20:13):
threw the McDonald's at me andtold me to get out of there.
Other times I go visit her, andshe'd tell me she paid all the
bills and and that she couldn'tpay this one bill. Could I give
her money for that? She was justsuch an altered state that it
was, you know, I even moved homefrom the Bay Area, from my job
to come home and take care ofher. And during the pandemic,
(20:34):
nobody could take care of mymom, and she was so hostile and
had all these problems that Iended up quitting my job and
staying home. The first time inmy entire life I was on
unemployment, the mostembarrassing thing to me, which
I don't know why. I mean, Inever been on it before, but to
me, it was embarrassing, and Itook care of her for almost a
year and a half because nobodyelse could manage that. Wow. So
(20:55):
it was a very painful process,and I feel like I lost my mom a
long time before she actuallypassed away.
You mentioned disappearing,which I thought was was
interesting in your story, but Iwant to talk about you, because
we talk about that, you know,and you've told us already that
(21:16):
you quit your job, and that's adefinite impact. Tell me a
little more about thatrelationship with your mom, and
because I know earlier, you hadsaid to us that you now still
grieve, that somewhat you stillhave feelings about the impact
that that had, that you saidcursing became the love language
that her passing really camewith grief, but there was also
(21:39):
some relief around that.
Yeah, and I know that soundsmaybe a little
Natalie (21:43):
harsh, but I just don't think it is. I think at some
point it's there is relief. AndI and we would say that really
out loud to people like, it'sokay if you feel relief after
your loved one has passed,because there's so many like
they're not in pain. It is verystressful, but everybody thinks
that, you know, you should justfall apart when someone passes
(22:06):
and it's unexpected. You know,
Unknown (22:08):
there's a little bit of a story to getting to my mom,
because my husband was beforethat a little bit, but just kind
of sticking with this part. Ithink what I felt with my mom
was that I've already lost her along time ago, and I already
grieved a lot, but I nevergrieved in losing my mom. And I
think that's really important. Igrieved more of an effect in
(22:31):
being angry of who she became.
And until you can forgive andget over that part, it's really
hard to grieve her real loss.
And I mean, there's so manygreat things my mom did her
whole life. Why do I hold on tothe for the last eight years
that were miserable? Becausethat's what I lived and
breathed. And I got to a pointof complete exhaustion, where
(22:51):
financially I was broke,emotionally I was broke. I
wanted her to be at peace andnot be tormented with all these
terrible things. She lived agood life. We all loved her. She
was so tormented with what shethought her life was that I
really wanted her to be atpeace. So there was a lot of
that, and to this day, I'm stillnot where I need to be. I
(23:13):
haven't gone to visit her at thecemetery, I haven't done a lot
of those things because I'm notready, and I know that that'll
happen in my own time. You justcan't rush it. It has to happen
when it's ready. And I'm givingmyself grace. It took a lot of
years to get to this point togive myself some grace on that,
but caregiving for her wasexhausting in every single
(23:34):
avenue, and to the point thatyou don't know what to do, my
daughter would get so mad andwant to protect me, and she
couldn't protect me, but yet, Inever gave up. I still showed
up. I still went there all thetime. I felt like it's and it's
kind of where you feel like it'san abusive relationship at that
point, where you're just givingand giving and giving and all
you're getting back is foullanguage and anger. But at the
(23:56):
end, I know that my mom, Kay, Iwent to say goodbye to her very
difficult time for me to dothat, but I did it, and I felt
she was kind of at peace, and weheld hands, and she seemed to
know a little bit of who I was,a little bit of clarity. And I
did tell her that I loved her.
So I did feel I had a little bitof that closure, but still,
still need to have more closureand to be able to forgive and
(24:20):
forget those last eight yearsand remember all the beautiful
years and all the things thatshe did teach me, that's still a
lesson I say I'm learning.
Angela, you, you already kind offoretold a little bit so you
said at the same time near theend with your mom, you stepped
into another caregiving kind oftime frame, is that, right? So
(24:43):
tell me when your mom passed.
Just kind of give us a littletime frame. Is the timeline?
Yeah, little time. Somy mom passed away in March,
early March, so I was a march ofit's been three years now, so I
don't even it's five. Me how Ipeople say, what's the exact
date? I don't keep track of thedates. I just know that it was
three years ago. And I'm this ismy third year of not celebrating
(25:06):
birthdays. I try not to rememberso much the days. But to me, it
was, it was there was threeyears ago in March and before
that. And you know, mind you, Isaid I wasn't going to get
married again. I was going to doall that. I ended up finding the
love of my life, and we weretogether for 10 years. He was
just somebody who came into mylife 18 years older, a fluke
(25:28):
from my friend was dating hisson, and she asked me to come
over to dinner one night andmake lasagna with him and just
entertain him, because they wereliving together at the time, and
he was lonely, and I'm like, ohgosh, you know, so I go over
there, and it wasn't love atfirst sight for me, I could tell
you that, but it was love atfirst sight for him. And he was,
(25:50):
like, so excited that I was, youknow, talking about leadership,
and I was a strong, independentwoman. He was really drawn to
that. And I'm used to not havingmen that are in my life that are
not afraid of they're usually alittle bit intimidated, right?
And so he made me feel amazing.
Natalie (26:08):
How did caring for your mom impact that relationship?
Because you said 10 years, andyou said with your mom, it was
eight. So there's crossoverwithout question. How did that
impact your relationship,especially if you quit your job
and you moved in with your mom.
Where is he at?
Unknown (26:24):
He moved with me everywhere. He retired. He was
he worked as an ultrastenographer, and he decided to
retire. He could make more moneyretire, between pensions and and
retirement. So he retired. So hereally focused on my career, and
we moved to the Bay Area. Wecame back to take care of my mom
100% supportive. He would get upwith me in the middle of the
(26:45):
night and and drive with me tomy mom every single time. He
never batted an eye. He was justalways there. He did record my
mom a few times so that if weever wanted to show how she was
an altered state, we could buthe was mostly there just to hold
my hand, be supportive. She wascruel and angry with him, and,
(27:05):
you know, did some things to himtoo. So he felt a lot of that as
well, but he that's what I'msaying. He was just right there.
Now, mind you, my husband hadlost his wife. He was married
for 30 years, and she passedaway from cancer, so he was a
caretaker of her. So he alreadyhad that empathy when somebody
was sick and not feeling good,so he was just kind of stepped
(27:29):
in and and was, was my light andguiding me through that
Natalie (27:33):
so that he was a caregiver for a caregiver. Yep,
Unknown (27:36):
exactly. He was a caregiver for a caregiver. And
it was, I mean, he wouldn't letme even drive to work. I'll take
you to work. I'm retired. Hedrive me to work. He picked me
up. He
Natalie (27:45):
cooked dinner for that.
That feels super privileged. Ilike that. He did that. And
Unknown (27:49):
I remember him getting up every morning, and had to
look nice to drop me off. And hewould come out of the bathroom
and he'd go, damn, I'm goodlooking.
Natalie (27:58):
Beep. That's okay. I just beat that out for you. I
love that he thought he was sogood looking. That's hilarious.
So
Unknown (28:05):
let me what I love is that, sorry, no, go ahead. But
what I love is that lovesometimes comes from the most
unexpected places that we lookand look and look and then there
it is. And I love that. Angela,make it lasagna for your friend,
who's, you know, saying, Comeover here and entertain this
man. So sorry, Nat,
Natalie (28:21):
go ahead. No, no, it's well. And you know, I know that
you know you your mom passes,you feel this relief, because
I'm assuming you have this senseof normalcy, like you're trying
to find what your life is goingto be like with him, and what
does life look like. And then Idon't think too far long after
care comes back into your comesback into your purview again,
Unknown (28:44):
well at the same time.
So my mom hadn't passed yet whenAlex got
Natalie (28:48):
sick. So realize that so
Unknown (28:52):
we were my mom was in a nursing home, so we were
somewhat relieved of the day today, but still the heartbreak
and trying to go visit her inDecember, my husband went to my
holiday party with me. Justwasn't himself. He didn't want
to dance, and he loved to dance.
He was a Latino so he loved toget in there and just dance. And
he wasn't wanting to dance. Hedidn't feel good. He went to the
doctors. They thought it waspneumonia. January, he's back in
(29:16):
the hospital again, draininglungs, and then they found some
tumors in his back, and he wasdiagnosed with cancer all
throughout his body, andbasically no cure, even chemo
wasn't recommended at that time.
So he was got a little sick inDecember, diagnosed in January,
(29:39):
and he died in February
Natalie (29:41):
was this of 2022 or What year was this? I'm just
trying to kind of get the 20202022 so he died a month before
your mom.
Unknown (29:50):
He died three weeks before my mom. Correct, he died
in that so I and so when I hadto go say goodbye to my mom, can
you imagine the the griefyou're. And I don't even
remember a whole lot about it. Ifeel like I was walking in a
daze at that time, and with myhusband, I had no
Natalie (30:07):
warning well, and you're dual caregiving at this
role, like, if you really thinkabout it, it sounds like you
supported your mom alongsideyour husband, and you've got
your siblings that are doingparts and components. Then you
ultimately move her into skillednursing, and she's there, but
that doesn't and here's thething we're gonna break. JJ, now
raise our hand. Care does notstop people. When your person
(30:31):
goes into assisted living,Senior Living, skilled nursing,
whatever, it does not end it isjust different. And so I think
that's important. And then hegets sick. Alex gets sick, and
you're visiting. And so I wouldsay life is a little upside
down. I want to pause for just asecond, because we're already at
time for a break for ourwonderful sponsors. We'll be
(30:53):
right back, because I want topick this back up and we'll be
right back. Care
Unknown (30:56):
forward is a technology platform that connects
volunteers with seniors, thedisabled and those with chronic
or complex health conditions,offering support, like
transportation, home visits andmore details
online@careforward.ioAll right, everybody, we are
back here with Angela and Ithink Natalie and I are just
kind of a heart stop right here.
(31:18):
So Angela, you've shared justsome, just the that moment where
your husband, Alex, has passedin February. You're in a days.
Your mom passes in March. Ipersonally, I'm sitting here
thinking this whole time is aday. He's like, I'm not sure how
you're functioning a daughter.
And I'm thinking, you at thattime, because she's two and a
half, she has two and a halfchildren, you know, almost she's
(31:40):
got another one on the way. Doyou have grandchildren at that
point? Yes. Are you working oryou're you're still taking care
so you're on that leave portion?
No, I'm working. At this point.
I am back to work as as a VP ofHR. So very big
responsibilities. I am trying tofunction the best that I can. My
daughter's had two kids at thispoint, and then I have a
(32:03):
granddaughter from my husband'sside, and she was the love of
our life, too. And they had toall come say goodbye to Alex.
And we had very little time toactually prepare for anything he
did come home, and I was ahospice caretaker for him as
well. So he came home and theysaid it'd probably be three
months. And it was three weekswhen he was home and he passed,
(32:23):
you know, I was administeringthe morphine. I was
administering the drugs. I had anurse come and help me bathe him
a couple times a week. Iremember getting very frustrated
trying to help him brush histeeth, and he didn't understand.
You know, he was starting toreally lose the comprehension
and having him try to brush histeeth and then rinse with
mouthwash, and he would swallowthe mouthwash, and I'd say, No,
(32:45):
you're not supposed to swallow.
You're supposed to spit it backout. And I remember getting very
angry over that silly thing.
But, you know, it wasn't justthat thing. It was just what the
position I was in going into theother room and screaming and
crying and and a part of me wasmad at him for not wanting to
even try the chemo to see if itcould extend his life, that here
I was dealing with my mom, andthen you're diagnosed, and
(33:08):
you're like this. You're so fastI don't get a chance to even
breathe, to even think aboutanything and plan better. It was
just such a whirlwind. And then,you know, the hardest part for
me is when I knew he was goingto pass, and nobody believed me,
but I felt it was getting close.
My daughter and her fiance andher two kids came to stay with
(33:31):
me at the house, and the littleone, who is He's four years old
now. So he was one years oldwhen this happened, and he was
just this love of my life. Hewanted to stick with me. He knew
something was wrong, but hedidn't know what. So he came to
sleep with me at night, thatnight, and Alex was next to me
in the hospice bed, and I'mholding his hand, and I remember
(33:53):
telling I'm just going to rollover and check on, you know,
Hudson, to make sure he's okay.
So when I rolled over, I guess Ifell asleep. And when I fell
asleep, that's when he passed.
So when I woke up, I was soupset that I wasn't there when
he passed. But I know that'swhat he wanted, and I know he
did it on purpose, but he tookaway to me that that that chance
(34:14):
for me to really say goodbye,you know. So that was probably
the hardest thing, and I thinkthat nobody can sorry. I don't
think that anybody canunderstand unless you've gone
through it, you know, and thisis a thing that nobody wants to
talk about, but, you know,taking the body out of there,
(34:34):
those things are PTSD momentsthat you live with every day of
your life. You know, those werereally hard to see and to
witness. And you know, I havegood family and friends, thank
goodness. But, you know, threeweeks he passes away, and then I
have to go and go to my mom andsay goodbye to my mom, and then
(34:55):
go to her funeral, which washard to do, and I hadn't even
planned what I was going. To dowith my husband yet. So in the
meantime, I am taking time offof work. Thank God. My job was
very good to me during thistime, to let me have as much
time as I needed, and verysupportive. But I think that,
you know, there's more to thatstory we can talk about in a
(35:15):
minute, but I think it's justall that, all that at one time
is a lot for one person tohandle. And I know I've been
through a lot leading up tothis, but not like this. I mean,
I was angry with God, I wasangry with Alex, angry with my
mom, angry with everybody, andit was a really difficult time.
And I don't think I realized howdifficult it was, and the PTSD
(35:39):
that comes with it, when youwake up in the middle of night
and you remember doing medicine,or you remember doing these
things as a caretaker. Could Ihave done something different?
Should I have done somethingbetter? You go through those,
that's normal feelings, but you,you, you just kind of sweep it
under the rug, because that'skind of how I grew up. You just
sweep on the rug. You keepmoving. And if you do that,
(36:01):
you're you're not reallyhealing, and it's going to be a
long festering pain, unless youstart dealing with it head
Natalie (36:08):
on. Festering is the right word. I think festering is
the right word, and I reallyappreciate how authentic you are
with our with with folks thatare listening, because I think
there's so many people who canrelate and say I felt
overwhelmed too, and like I'msurprised, like, you didn't pull
like an Angela Bassett when inthat waiting to excel, where she
just, like, blows the car up andjust is like, Screw it. I'm
(36:30):
leaving. And because I wouldhave wanted to have quit, like,
I quit. And so anybody out therewho's not been a caregiver
probably would be like, I justwant to walk away or let
somebody else do it, or why? Whydidn't your family step into
care and take the lead when yourhusband was this? Or why didn't?
There's lots of whys. And whenyou've not lived in the middle
of the total dumpster fire, youdon't even think. For me, there
(36:54):
are many times I thought, and itwas typically when I was walking
by myself. I'd take 20 minutesto walk by myself in the city,
and I'd be like, what if Ididn't go back? And I think
about that, what if I didn't,what if I just stayed here at
Trader Joe's under the coolbridge and forever, and I just
kept pretending that might takean extra five minutes, that was
(37:15):
my defiance, like I'm going totake, say, an extra five minutes
for myself and then I go back,because not returning was never
an option. Yeah? Like, yeah. Imean, I kind of had to return. I
mean, even if I had to go tosomewhere to sleep. So exactly,
I think that's, I think this isso such an important thing to
talk about, because you'reright. How do you even plan when
(37:37):
you've got and you're planningfor someone's passing and, you
know that sort of thing, had youand your husband talked about
before he got sick? Had you allplanned for passing and death
and had all the things in placethat you needed?
Unknown (37:51):
Yes, and he he wanted to be cremated. So at least I
knew that he didn't want afuneral. He wanted a celebration
of life, which I was able topull together a few months
afterwards, but it took me alittle time to heal. I had to go
through my mom. I think I wentback to work a few months and
then I think we had his, his hiscelebration of life. And what I
(38:13):
one thing I want to say is thatI think is really important for
employers. I just this issomething that I believe in.
They're really good, I think ata lot of times of helping you
when you're going through thestuff, right? But people expect,
when I went back to work, and itwas the hardest day going back
to work, but because you smile,because you go out, have, you
know, why? Why you have cocktailhour with somebody after work,
(38:36):
or because you finish a project,they think, Oh, she's fine.
She's good. And so they don'trealize that there are some
signs of things that are maybebuilding, and they're oblivious
to it, because they want tobelieve you're okay and you're
not. When you lose somebody,you're not healed in two months,
because you go back to work, byany means, you're going to go
(38:57):
through things, and I thinkthat's the one thing that I I
take responsibility for is I letmyself be pretend I was okay to
make everybody else feelcomfortable.
Natalie (39:09):
Oh, now that's the money statement. It's the truth.
I let myself be okay because Ididn't want anybody else to feel
uncomfortable, even in the timebefore Jason and I moved like,
Yes, oh, we don't want it. Andpeople are like, Oh, I'm so
sorry. And you're like, Oh,that's okay. No, I just say
thank you now, like, Thank you.
Unknown (39:28):
You know, Angela is so interesting. You say that
because I think about when ourdad passed away, and, oh, a
little different than Alex, buthe passed away tragically, like
he just died on the Fourth ofJuly, massive heart attack, and
still a little angry, never saidgoodbye, and so that's an issue.
But I remember when he died, andI was a commercial lender, and
so you get that week off fromwork and you go back to work,
(39:50):
but I never really felt like Idealt with that. And about a
year and a half later, I waslaid off, and the prior year I
had been. The top Lender of mybank. And I never, I never
really dealt with it. And as Ilook back with it, I always
think, is it because I couldn'tprocess it? And I remember I did
the best I could. I was thesmile, I was the Okay, my
(40:11):
chipper normal get back initself, but right before it
happened, and I will not getteary eyed, I went to dinner
with our CEO and one of my bestclients and my boss, and I
remember that that good customerlooking across the table at me
at this fancy steakhouse, and hesaid, How are you doing now that
your dad? You know, I know youlost your dad last year, and I
broke at the table, and I had togo to the bathroom excuse
(40:34):
myself, because I was like, it'sa year out. I can't discuss
this. And I think you areexactly right when you say
employers. I had hidden it forso long, so everybody else would
be fine. And that's kind of aninterjection, but you have
brought up something veryimportant, that people just
don't realize that they shouldhave seen those signs that I'm
I'm doing, you know, doing asgood as I can, and just kind of
hiding it all soand I think it that I can
(40:55):
honestly say, because I lost myjob after all this too. So my
job was lost, and here I am asuperstar. I just went to, you
know, what they call the MVPaward, and I went to Cancun or
macabre, I mean, and I got todo, you know, all these
wonderful things. I was a VP ofHR. I should know better. I
should know these things too. Ireally cross so many boundaries
(41:16):
of trying, of talking aboutthings, and being things with my
team, because they were fillinga void that I didn't realize at
the time, a void of what I lost,of talking to Alex, so I
probably talked about things mypersonal life, things I
shouldn't have done, althoughthe reason that I was let go is
really Because I was bringingthings to to surface, to light
(41:41):
that was not ethical. So I stillstand by that, but how I handled
it was horrible. The things Idid leading up to that was not
good. And I have to take a lookat that and take responsibility
for that. And so here, I'venever been written up in my
entire life, in any career, anyjob I had, and here, all of a
sudden, now I am left with a fewmonths severance, and here you
(42:03):
go. And I am 50 some years old,lost my husband, lost my lost my
mom. I am financially, you know,in a situation, making a ton of
money, and now I don't havethat. And I remember being so
angry, but it's the best thingthat happened to me, and it's a
blessing in disguise, because itmade me go get therapy, and I
(42:24):
did an outpatient therapy, whichmade me realize that I was not
healthy, I was not good, and Iwas living a lie. And then that
does impact your performance,whether you want to admit it or
not, it does, and it's not evennecessarily your performance.
It's how you respond to things.
(42:46):
Is so much more emotional, somuch more magnified, so
Natalie (42:50):
magnify his exact word.
I would agree with that. I wouldagree with that we had somebody
else talk about the same thing,Angela, and especially with you
being an HR, so that I thinkthis is the part that's so
interesting. It's no differentthan me being like, I don't know
what's going on, and I and I wasso dysregulated. I was so off
when I was when Jason was sick,and I trained on how to get
(43:11):
centered and calm and all thatkind of stuff. And I wasn't
applying it. You're not applyingthe own thing. You're You're the
own strategies that you wouldadvise your own supervisors and
managers of how to interact. AndI just, I think that's so
important to say that this hadnever been a problem before. But
when you go into caregiving andgrief comes into play, and you
(43:32):
have these high like these, youhad chronic stress and
unpredictability. And I mean, itis toxic stress, and how that
impacts you and your behaviorand your actions is going to be
people were like, Oh, this isnot like you. And it's it's the
truth. It is the truth. I feltlike, at times I was losing my
(43:54):
mind, like I didn't know who Iwas, I didn't know I was
supposed to do. It's why westarted the podcast, because I
couldn't figure out what Ishould do and and the reality,
and that's why I told JJ. I waslike, Hey, we got to start a
podcast talk about this, becauseI feel crazy.
Unknown (44:09):
And she's like, good me
Natalie (44:12):
too crazy. We're both crazy. And Emily was like, Sign
me up. I'm crazy too, and we'reall crazy. And so the thing is,
is that we're not crazy, it'sthat we're in this this, it just
shows you the power of stressover a window of time and how
that can impact your decisionmaking, and everything you know,
(44:33):
and I don't know if manycaregivers who have, you know,
gone out and, like, stolen abunch of stuff or created fraud,
in the sense of that chronicstress created that negative
behavior. It's typicallyinternalized. It's typically
internalized. But we did have aguest that talked about he
realized that he was he was avery different manager when
(44:54):
after caregiving and that hishis employees responded to him
differently because. Respondedto his environment differently.
He saw his environmentdifferently. And that's what I
hear you saying 100%
Unknown (45:09):
and you don't know it at the time. So you know, part
of me was mad. Well, you know,maybe I'm not well, but why
didn't you guys, especially my,you're in my HR team, why didn't
somebody ask me, Hey, are youokay? Yeah. Are you okay?
Because they don't want to dealwith the uncomfortableness of
it. And if somebody had maybesaid to me, you know, maybe,
maybe that's a big maybe still,Hey, are you okay? You seem a
(45:31):
little off. Maybe I would havebeen got help earlier. I don't
know, but I can't go back on.
All I know is that, but being,you know, going through that
loss of a job added anotherlevel to me that I knew I needed
help and I couldn't do it on andso that's when I went to the
therapy, and I found that when Iwas there, I didn't take pride
or happiness and joy ineverybody else being sad, but
(45:56):
what I did is I felt connectedto somebody who could understand
what I'm feeling and I couldunderstand what they're feeling,
and it gave me this ability tohelp. I wanted to help other
people. I walked away knowingthat by me helping other people,
by me talking about, by metelling my story, by me just
holding them and being there, itmade me realize that that was
(46:17):
part of my healing as well,which goes back to what you said
my upbringing. I'm not one tosit and just be shot down and
stay down. I'm going to figureout what it takes to get back up
and fight again and what thatmeans. And to me, my purpose now
is, yeah, I got to have a joband I got to survive. But I also
think it's important to get themessage on and talk to and touch
(46:38):
and help as many people as Ican, because I understand I see
you, and I think that's thebiggest thing. A lot of people
don't see you, but I thinkpeople like us who have been
through this, we see people, wereally see them. And that
matters. That really mattersbecause that makes you feel a
little more complete and alittle bit more strength to keep
(47:01):
going. And some days I wouldsay, I don't, I don't even want
to get up just, you know, I wantto go be with my loved ones in
heaven, you know, just take me.
I don't want to do this. And Idid go through days like that.
And now I was like, you know,these people brought me joy and
happiness. I have to fight forthat, and I'm going to let the
good part of them remain in me,and it's, it's a it's a
(47:23):
challenge. And trust me, notevery day do I wake up and feel
good. No, I have good days baddays. That's why I say I'm a
work in progress. And you don'tknow, you know, my boss the
other day asked me how I wasdoing, just a normal meeting,
we're going to talk about ourwork stuff. And she said, How
are you doing? And I burst outcrying, and I had no idea why,
none. And I she goes, Oh my God,is work stressing? What's going
(47:46):
on? And I said, I just came outof my mouth. I miss my husband.
I miss holding his hand watchingTV. I miss waking up with them.
I'm I miss him. And I cried onthe phone with my boss, I was
mortified, and I said, I am sosorry. But you know what? She
let she just let me. She goes,oh my gosh, I can't even imagine
(48:07):
I lost my mom, but that's notthe same as your spouse. I get
it. And she says, You can cry.
You can Oh, don't neverapologize. Just be yourself. You
want to take some time off. Andshe made me feel so comfortable
that I was able to gathermyself, and we had a very
productive call and got the workdone, but she allowed me to say
it out loud and not judge me orbe uncomfortable with it, which
(48:30):
was the first time that I'vebeen able to talk about
something without feeling thatsomebody was uncomfortable.
Natalie (48:39):
That's a safe space.
So, you know, there's all thesethings going on. You have all
this hard and the thing is, isGod's not done with you yet. And
I don't mean that in a bad way.
I mean life continues. That'sthe thing that we do, is, even
though our loved ones, when theyleave us, we continue. And how
(48:59):
do we continue? And you've gotyour dad, and so you're trying
to reorient yourself. You havelot, you've you've been on it,
you've been let go, leftwhatever. You have disconnected
from the employer. That's myconnected, yeah. And so
regardless. And then somethinghappens, and then care hits you
(49:24):
again. When? So your mom passedin Alex passed in February. Your
mom passed in March. When doescare start coming in?
Unknown (49:34):
So my dad was living with my brother, but he was
begin getting to, you know, tobe too hard for my brother to
manage, and they were travelinga lot, so we he would go to my
sisters for a while inWashington, and it just became
too much. Though. We talked tomy dad about finding a place,
and my dad was so much moreaccommodating than my mom and
willing to say, Yeah, I can gointo a place. He was just, you
(49:55):
know, not. He was starting to,like, blow up. He. He almost
blew up the house with leavingthe gas on in the house, he had
done some things that were youcouldn't leave him alone to take
care of himself, and he knew it.
And so we put him in, we checkedout a couple facilities, and we
put him in one that was about anhour from me and closer to my
brother. But then he wastraveling all the time, so I
(50:16):
would go visit my dad everyweekend, almost every weekend,
some weekends I just, I couldn'tgather the energy to go. It was
just, you know what it was, andI made it very clear to my
brother and sister, I am notable to take care of my dad. I
had to say, I am not physically,emotionally or mentally able to
care for dad. Don't ask him tomove in with me. I've got my
(50:38):
daughter living with me, herkids, you know, with me now they
don't want me to be alone. Idon't want to be alone. I just
can't do I just didn't have thecapacity.
Natalie (50:48):
And that's, that's the bravest, kindest things that you
can do to yourself.
Unknown (50:53):
Yeah, yes. And it was also guilt, though. But my dad
was such a different beast. Heunderstood it, you know, my dad
just went with the flow. So thenmy dad, I got a call one day
that my dad wasn't able toswallow very well, and they took
him to the hospital. So my dadwas diagnosed with throat cancer
and was given about they'd sayno more than six months to live.
(51:19):
And it was progressed, and therewas no real treatment for him.
So at that point, I said, if I'mgoing to be the care care,
primary care provider for mydad, and move him closer to me
so that it's easier for me to govisit and you know how hard it
is to find a Medi Cal bed thatis willing to accept him? I went
through a lot of hoops. Took memonths begging and pleading with
(51:42):
people, so my stress levels wereeven harder trying to try to
find something. I got him inAuburn, which is close to me.
You know, it was still, still a40 minute drive, but at least it
was closer. So got him there,and it was the worst care that I
could have put my dad in. Imean, nobody cared. Nobody was
coming around. He was outwithout water all the time. If I
(52:04):
didn't stay on top of things atthat place, they would have just
said, Oh, he's dying anyway.
Let's just let him go. I meanthis, the level of care was so
heartbreaking to me and sodisappointing. And they were
short staffed, so some of it is,you know, an inevitable but just
not they lost his clothes. Theywould do his laundry. I said,
stop doing the laundry. I'mtaking his clothes home. I would
(52:25):
buy all new clothes his I'd seehis roommate wearing his
clothes, and I'm like, what? Whyam his roommate wearing his
clothes? Speaking our language?
Yeah, yeah. All those things.
The food, he was terrible. Thechef, he came out and me and his
chef got into it. Melissa iswhat he's supposed to eat, and I
said he's going to die anyways.
(52:46):
Let him have what he wants toeat. My dad loved to eat. He was
a foodie. Let him eat what hewants within reason that he's
not going to choke. I get that.
So I was back and forth againtrying to hold down my new job,
which, thankfully, they werevery understanding. And my dad
got covid, and from the from thenursing home, so he became
(53:06):
really sick with covid. I walkedin one night, he was burning
with a fever. Nobody had noticedit. I had to go get them, and
then they had to be quarantined.
It was a nightmare. I remembertaking my granddaughter, who
loved him, to visit, and shesang songs. She was a great she
was a wonderful singer. So shewas singing songs to my dad,
(53:29):
trying to cheer him up. And Iremember some old ladies were
mad and slammed the door, andshe's got a beautiful voice, and
they're like, come on, we'retrying to cheer the place up,
you know. So it was just not agood feeling all the way around.
And then they said my dad wasprobably going to pass soon
because of the covid. The covidhad really kind of taken him. So
I had this feeling I couldn't Icouldn't tell you why. And this
(53:51):
is my bizarre story. I told myjob I gotta go. I just feel like
my dad's gonna go. He's gonnapass any day, any minute. I
gotta go. And I was so logicalgoing through this process. I
said my dad's going to die, it'sgoing to be a long time, so I'm
going to stop and I'm going toget McDonald's on the way over
there, and I'm going to eat acheeseburger and a fry and and
I'm going to get some energy inme, because I know I'm probably
(54:13):
going to be there a long time.
Why I even thought that? I don'tknow, but that's your logical
brain kicks in to take care ofthe body. You know what you got
to do to prepare for and I didthat. Stopped the Nate in the
car got there, probably within30 minutes, my dad passed, and I
held his hand during this time Iwas able to be there. It was a
different experience, a littlebit more lighthearted in that
(54:35):
fact, because there wasn't thisanimosity, there was love
between my dad and I. Ithappened. I knew it was coming.
I was prepared, but I still satthere and cried and cried and
cried, and then they came in,and they do their final test.
And I'll never forget the thingthat I saw, and I know it's
probably nothing, but to me, inmy mind, this is what I'm still
(54:58):
dealing with. The PTSD from mydad is they check his eyes and,
you know, they check and makesure that it's gone. But I
remember seeing this panickedlook in my dad's eyes, and I was
like, did was he scared to die?
You know, did he die even thoughI was here? Was he still scared?
Or was that just a reaction thebody goes through? And so that
(55:19):
stayed with me for a littlewhile, and I sat in the car. I
didn't drive home. I sat in thecar for a while outside of the
place, and just cried. And thenwe had to plan his funeral and
bury him with my mom. And I wasjust like, Okay, what else you
gonna give me, God? Because Igot no more to give. I got no
(55:40):
more to give. I don't even knowhow to function at this point.
And I went back to work threedays later and and they were all
good about it, but I lease workfrom home. So, you know, I
travel off and on, but i Whatare you going to do? I mean, you
have to continue to take care ofyourself financially and work.
But it was another blow, anotherbig blow that, you know broke my
(56:02):
heart, but I know he's with mymom, and he's with Alex now, so
there was a little bit of senseof relief that he wasn't in pain
because he was in pain.
Natalie (56:11):
Yeah. So this has been a couple. This has been your,
did your did your dad pass in2022, in 2023, so last year,
three. So it's, so it's, it'sbeen about year and a half. Two.
Unknown (56:24):
No, he passed. I'm sorry, yeah, 2023, yes. I want
Natalie (56:28):
to, because typically we go into sister questions. And
so I want to start with, I wantto ask you, what did you do
after like, What's life beenlike over the last two years, as
you are trying to figure outlife,
Unknown (56:44):
soul searching. Hired a life coach that I thought would
maybe help me a little bit with,but mostly more about business
and career and kind of thingsthat helped me with some things,
which was good. I learned a lotfrom that about myself. What
I've been doing, to be honest,is, um, I guess I would say,
(57:08):
learning to live differently.
Um,
Natalie (57:12):
I think that I was looking for like, how is the
care? How has this experiencecombined with all your past
experiences? But how has thisexperience like, what if you
decided, because I know you'redoing something with it, you're
not just gonna continue to theperson that melts into a puddle?
Unknown (57:30):
No, well, I think that, you know, the first thing that I
kind of have to get used to, andI'm trying to do it, is I'm not
a party of two anymore. I'm aparty of one. And no matter how
hard that is to accept, it isthat, and that has changed
sometimes a little dynamics ofmy friendships. I have amazing
(57:50):
friends, 100% amazing friendsthat are supportive, but I don't
want to always be the thirdwheel with all my couple friends
that we did things togetherwith. So I'm learning how to
become a little bit moreconfident and showing up to
places by myself and being okaywith that, and meeting my
friends places. I can tell you,that is what I'm kind of trying
to deal now. And it's like,hard, because if something good
(58:12):
or bad happens, I want to callmy friends and tell them, but
it's like I stop myself because,you know, they have their own
lives. They can't constantly behearing everything that's going
on with me that I used to tellmy mom or my husband. So I've
learned to be a little more selfsufficient in trying to deal
with things. And so I writethings down. I'm a writer. I
(58:33):
write things down. I write myanger, I write I write songs, I
write poems. I do that writing.
And then if I just sit with itfor a little bit, just sit with
it, I find that I can usuallyfind some kind of relief in it
by and I'll always have to go tosomebody. Would I like to go to
somebody? Yeah, I would love togo to somebody. And my friends
(58:54):
are always there for me, but Idon't want to drain my friends
from their things that they'regoing through. And it's always
about me. So it changes yourfriendships, it changes your
life, it changes yourrelationships, and you have to
try to find what makes you feelgood. And what I'm finding that
makes me feel good, to behonest, is talking about it, is
writing about it, is sharing it.
(59:17):
So at some point in my life, Idon't know when, and I'm letting
it happen naturally andorganically, which is important.
I would like to do somethingsimilar to what you guys are
doing, is my own podcast to talkto people and to let them hear
the stories and let them feelthat they're not being judged
and they're okay that, you know,I want it to be raw and
unfiltered. I mean, I say thingsthat nobody wants to hear, but
(59:41):
I'm not going to apologize forit anymore. That's my healing
process for me to be real, andI'm going to do that. So I think
that's where I'm kind of leadingtowards in my life. And I think
it's time for me at some point,to kind of do what I've always
felt I needed to do in my wholelife. I've always felt. I should
help people now, I've got abigger reason and a lot to share
(01:00:05):
that makes me real, and I don't.
I'm not going to pretend to beanything. I'm not. I'm still
work in progress, and I stilldon't know exactly how I'm going
to do all that, because I'mstill working through things,
but I feel like I'm on the rightpath. Well,
well, Natalie, we have learnedI'm just overwhelmed today with,
like, all of my, my emotion,first of all, and then my I just
(01:00:29):
did things. I've learned youwant to jump into sister
questions, because I know, I'mlike, Oh my gosh, I could
Natalie (01:00:33):
talk. I mean, I asked my question. I'm like, I'm
waiting for you to ask yours.
Okay, like, wake up. First
Unknown (01:00:37):
of all, we got some information from Angela, which I
want to tell you guys, we'regonna It's so good that I want
to make sure I'm going to make aI'm going to make a post out of
it, Angela, because we have fivethings that have actually helped
me survive loss. I'm going toput that up on our page. I'm
going to include it. But ittalks about writing and it talks
about crying like it's a sport.
I just I thought that, like it'syour job. So there's so many
(01:01:00):
things there's I actually amgoing to post it because it's so
fantastic. I do have a questionfor you, and it's about
something that you said. Itsays, let's see, because I wrote
it down, it says, I've learnedthat about surviving. I learned
that surviving caregiving andgrief isn't about doing it
perfectly. And I think so manypeople struggle with that. Just
(01:01:22):
give me a little insight whenit's okay, that it's okay not to
do it perfectly. Ithink that we hold ourselves and
feel like that it's their lasttime of life. We want everything
to be perfect. We wanteverything to them to go
perfectly. But it doesn't happenthat way. You know, it's not,
it's, let's just be real. It'slike rate you're you're taking
(01:01:42):
care of somebody who's like achild again, that child's not
going to behave the way you wantthem to behave. They're not
going to cooperate the way youwant them to cooperate. You're
not going to respond perfectly.
You know how many times I gotmad at my husband because he
wouldn't do something, but hecouldn't, and I'd get mad and go
in the other room and he'd say,I'm sorry, I'm sorry, and I
would like, Don't tell me you'resorry. And I remember being
(01:02:04):
angry and mad and and that's notperfect, that's real. It's
realistic. And then I go back inand say, I'm sorry, honey, I
didn't I'm not mad at you. I'mmad at the situation, and it's
always just reminding yourselfthat it's not mad at anybody.
It's a situation that you're madat, and it's not perfect. You're
gonna make mistakes. You'regonna have regrets. Everybody
(01:02:25):
says, I wish I would have donethis. There's no right answer.
There's no correct way to do it.
It's surviving to get throughit. And you do the best that you
can, and then you learn. Youtake away something from that,
that you can incorporate thatmakes you better in the future,
and that's all you can do. Idon't know any other way to say
it's been perfect or notperfect. It's it's some things
(01:02:48):
that went really well and somethings went really bad, and to
accept it and give yourself alittle bit of grace.
Natalie (01:02:56):
There's no better way to say that's caregiving.
Sometimes it goes really well,sometimes it goes really bad,
exactly, it's messy, and youjust and just live in the mess.
Some days, just live in the messpeople well, and that one,
Unknown (01:03:12):
I would just say, the one thing that's most important,
I think, to me, and what I foundis, is to to live in the
emotion. So when you're you'resad, and when you're grieving,
when you're angry, accept that.
Accept where you're feeling forthat moment. Invite it to the
table, and, you know, havedinner with it. Go to bed with
it. Wake up in the morning, makeit a friend. Name it if you have
(01:03:32):
to do whatever you have to do,because if you ignore it or
sleep it under the table, it'sgoing to come back in a bit in a
bigger force. So you might aswell reconcile with it, make it
a friend, and deal with it andfigure out the best way to move
forward each day. That's thebest advice I can give.
Natalie (01:03:52):
That is, without question, the best advice. All
right. Last question, this hasgot to be fast, okay, this is
always the question I ask at thevery end. Did you know it's
coming? What is your favoriteguilty pleasure? I always end
this way. I have to know. Whatis the thing that you do just
for you that really helps you tofeel like you just love it?
(01:04:13):
What's your favorite thing thatyou do just for you?
Unknown (01:04:16):
Writing and drinking red wine?
Natalie (01:04:19):
Oh, I hope you do it both at the same time. I do same
time. It's always better.
Unknown (01:04:25):
I love my writing just flows a little bit better.
Natalie (01:04:28):
It's all so free. Okay, well, guys, i we i really
appreciate everybody stickingwith us. This is an extended
episode. Angela, thank you somuch for coming on and sharing
like super words of wisdom. Ithink this was so important and
really, really happy to have youon here as a guest. And yeah,
Jay, I'm just gonna, I'm gonnatake us out until we confess
(01:04:51):
again. Take care of you.
Unknown (01:04:53):
Thank you. Appreciate it.
Natalie (01:04:58):
Well, friends, that's.
A wrap on this week's confessionagain. Thank you so much for
listening. But before you go,please take a moment to leave us
a review and tell your friendsabout the confessions podcast.
Don't forget to visit ourwebsite to sign up for our
newsletter. You'll also find avideo recording of all of our
episodes on the confessionswebsite and our YouTube channel.
(01:05:19):
Don't worry. All the details areincluded in the show notes
below. We'll see you nextTuesday when we come together to
confess again. Till then, takecare of you. Okay, let's talk
disclaimers. You may besurprised to find out, but we
are not medical professionalsand are not providing any
(01:05:41):
medical advice. If you have anymedical questions, we recommend
that you talk with a medicalprofessional of your choice. As
always, my sisters and I, atConfessions of a reluctant
caregiver, have taken care inselecting speakers, but the
opinions of our speakers aretheirs alone. The views and
opinions stated in this podcastare solely those of the
(01:06:04):
contributors and not necessarilythose of our distributors or
hosting company. This podcast iscopyrighted and no part can be
reproduced without the expresswritten consent of the
sisterhood of care LLC, thankyou for listening to the
confessions of our reluctantcaregiver podcast.
Hey guys, it's your favorite sisters with the
Confessions of a reluctantcaregiver. Podcast. On the show,
you'll hear caregiversconfessing the good, the bad and
the completely unexpected.
You're guaranteed to relate, beinspired. Lead with helpful tips
and resources, and, of course,laugh now, let's get to today's
confession. Hey, Jay, hi,Natalie, where in the world are
(00:30):
you right now?
Unknown (00:36):
Get ready. I'm in Cerro Gordo, North Carolina. Do you
know what Sarah gorda means? No,actually, the fat Hill. I'm not
sure what that means. Excepthere's the funny thing, my last
name is Hill, and I found thisplace offensive. I
Natalie (00:49):
would think that would be offensive, to be honest,
Sarah Gorda, the Sarah, I'mthinking, No, that's not Sarah's
the name of the person. Sarah
Unknown (00:59):
s e r federal, well, and I've got that. So in
Natalie (01:02):
other words, you just said Sarah, S, A, R, A, and it's
really, is it? How do you spellit, C, E, R, R. So, okay, so
it's Cerro. So for all of ourSpanish speaking friends, yeah.
So okay, look,
Unknown (01:17):
you killed my Spanish town in North Carolina,
Natalie (01:21):
Spaniards, who came across the ocean that I don't
know if you were a part of thehistory
Unknown (01:26):
lesson, Mayflower,
Natalie (01:28):
what I went we was gone down a whole different path,
because history and theMayflower and our Spaniard
friends, that's not what this isabout. We're talking about
caregiving. All right.
Unknown (01:40):
I got distracted. You know what? I want to get
started, though, because we haveso much today to unpack and oh,
I want to say one thing, Natalieand I have not, not recorded
together in a while. We had tojump back on Riverside today.
This is so hard for me becauseI'm not able to touch and poke
on you.
Natalie (01:55):
I'm really glad you can't touch me, and I have no
clue if you if you brushed yourteeth. I
Unknown (02:00):
did. I did okay. I showed you on YouTube. If
anybody needs to inspect myteeth, you can jump on there.
It's hard for me not to be ableto touch and love on you today.
So
Natalie (02:08):
I'm really glad that you pulled it together and you
actually did something withyourself. No, you should go to
YouTube and watch this, becauseshe looks like crap.
Unknown (02:15):
I didn't I brush my hair. It's humid in North
Carolina. Keep
Natalie (02:19):
going. Let's talk about Angela, because we have an
amazing guest. I know people arelike, can you get to it? Girls,
nobody cares about JJs hair.
Unknown (02:26):
Am I smelled my armpits. They smell. Jay. Keep
going. Okay, sorry, okay. Jay,okay. I'm gonna say this. I
don't know where to start,because when I read Angela's her
backstory on caregiving, I waslike, This is so amazing,
Angela. So I'm gonna throw thatout. First of all, we have
Angela Ibarra. Is that right?
Angela, everybody? I hope it'snot Spanish, okay? So she spent
(02:47):
over 30 years in a variety ofleadership roles, and I love
that. Now. She helpsentrepreneurs launch their own
staffing agencies, because Ilove helping entrepreneurs. In
the beginning, she says she'sfiguring out who she wants to be
when she grows up. I'm stilldoing that too. She is a
survivor. She is a storytellerand a lifelong work in progress.
(03:09):
But I'm gonna tell you guys, thepast few years have been I'm
gonna say she wouldn't recommendthem to anyone. In the span of
four years, she lost herhusband, her mom, her job, and
then her dad, and she says it'sbeen like the grief buffet,
except no one asked for seconds.
(03:30):
I'm not going any further, guys,because Angela's story is
amazing, and she's the one hereto share it. I've
Natalie (03:35):
never heard you, no, Jay, I've never heard of
somebody refer to it as a griefbuffet. I mean, she lies down
there right up front that thatsets the tone for what we're
going to talk about today. Andif caregiving is synonymous with
grief, if you really think aboutit, you know, Angela, we're
thrilled to have you here today.
So first, let me just say we'rethrilled to have
Unknown (03:55):
you here. Yeah, thank you. I'm glad to be here too.
Natalie (03:58):
Yeah. And she's a real team player, because it's six
o'clock in the morning whereshe's at and she looks like
magic. So watch for JJ, so youcan be like, JJ, just got out of
bed, and then look at Angela andthink she's on the cover of
Vogue. She's, I'm telling you,right now. So you're channeling
your inner Sarah. JessicaParker, you're looking beautiful
(04:18):
lady. All right. So you know itis true. Grief is it does. And I
think we have never reallystarted this way. Grief really
is synonymous with caregiving,because there's an element of
loss, whether you lose yourloved one or not, because
caregiving has this rippleeffect of how it impacts your
(04:39):
life, positive and challengesand negative. And really it is
negative. Sometimes negativethings happen. So, yeah, so
Angela, let's start from thebeginning, you know, I always
like to say, let's start fromthe beginning. You were born,
and then kind of skip to otherparts, but mostly tell us, give
us a little backstory. Tell us alittle bit about who you are,
you know, and that sort ofthing. And kind of walk us up
(04:59):
to. It when care first began.
Unknown (05:01):
Okay, perfect. Well, I came from pretty much a basic
loving Catholic family, soconfessions are pretty
synonymous for me. So this is aperfect podcast for me to be on.
Natalie (05:15):
So like that feels good. We heard ourselves as the
sisters, and we say Baptist, notCatholic, yeah,
Unknown (05:24):
but I had a wonderful mom and dad and two sisters and
a brother. My childhood was wasa little bit different in the
fact that I had a sister thatwas born with muscular
dystrophy. She died when I wasnine years old. And I remember
being nine and going, oh mygosh, you know, is God going to
come down and take me away? Iwas afraid to walk down the
(05:47):
hallways. I was afraid to dothings, because I just wasn't
sure I understood what all thiswas. But I have such a clear
vision in my head. She died fourdays before Christmas. So it's
Christmas is always a reallytough time for me. But I
remember my mom handing out theChristmas presents, trying not
to cry, giving us our gifts, andwe were all trying to be excited
(06:10):
about it. I was still young, soof course, I'm excited about
what I get. I'm not really fullyunderstanding everything. And I
remember my mom trying to, youknow, to give out the gifts and
try to smile and be happy. And Iremember at that moment, I was
so clear in my head, even today,that I realized how much my mom
was like a superhero to me, forher to know that she was this
(06:33):
sad, but she was still justtrying to be the strong person
for her three other children. Iremember thinking my mom is my
hero, and I think that's wheremy mom and my from. Just that
beginning, I had this utmostrespect and love for her, and we
became a really close bond. Mymom was literally my best friend
(06:53):
growing up, you know. So justlots of love, lots of, you know,
growth, and she was my biggestcheerleader all the time. You
know, if somebody was picking onme, she'd go defend me. You
know, if I was having a bad dayand I was afraid to do
something, she'd say, Never showyour fear. Just walk into a room
and act like you own the place.
She just always inspired me. AndI think that, you know, that is
(07:15):
why the journey of my mom andher, you know, her life, which
we'll get to in a moment, wasvery hard for me, and I'm still,
to this day, processing allthose feelings, a little bit of
anger still there with her forit's not her fault for having
Alzheimer's and the way it went,but I still feel a little bit of
that hurt and anger towards herthat loved it and conquer all,
(07:37):
you know, and being broke Withthose things that you think are
going to happen. Then I, youknow, grew up a little bit more.
We moved around a few times. Ididn't know what I wanted to do
100% and so I kind of went tocommunity college, and then I
finally got a job that was witha smaller company that Hewlett
Packard bought out and a bigcompany and and I stayed there
(07:59):
for almost 31 years, and I grewup there. It was the most
amazing job I could have everhad. Taught me everything I
needed to know, great mentors. Ihave no regrets, other than it
just started breaking apart. Youknow, as you saw that, they
split up the whole company, itjust wasn't the company that I
wanted anymore.
Natalie (08:21):
So let me ask you, because we're interrupting cows,
yes, we'll move, we'll moveright all over you before we
move on out of your childhood.
Let me ask you this, becausewhat birth order you are? You?
What birth order? I'm a Leo, no,but what? Oh, you're Oh baby.
Unknown (08:38):
I'm an August baby, and I'm
Natalie (08:40):
Oh yeah, baby, August 21 ah, JJ is August 5, and our
August 11. And we have cousinsthat are 678, I mean, we've got
we, for some reason, apparently,people got frisky in January,
and so that's my answer.
Everybody. Love the holidays.
(09:01):
Yeah, I'm in December. I don'teven know what to tell you, so
I'm a cap, but I think that'simportant. And I could see where
that would be hard for you,especially losing your sibling.
And that's different too,because you were so young, you
were the baby out of all ofthem. Would you say that your
siblings, your older siblings?
What's the age difference?
Because I'm all interested inthings like that.
Unknown (09:21):
My sister is eight years older, no, 10 years older,
and my brother's eight yearsolder. Did
Natalie (09:28):
they help with the other sister? Your other sister,
who passed with care and youprobably were more observant and
had intermittent little helpywhere you needed? Yes,
absolutely. So you grew aroundyou grew up, is what I would
assume. You grew up in a in aculture of caring for other
people, not just your mom careit's almost like you know you
(09:48):
care down your mom cares down.
Your mom's caring for you, butyou and your siblings really
help take care of one anotherbecause of you had a sibling
with a with an illness, achronic, complex ill. Illness
Unknown (10:01):
Absolutely. And I know that, you know, she was in a
wheelchair from a pretty youngage, and I remember going out to
fairs and doing things, andpeople would make fun of her,
and my mom and I would get somad, and my sister would just
say, it doesn't matter. She hadsuch a light spirit with it, but
she really, she taught us tocare for people. She taught us.
(10:22):
And I think that's a part I'mwriting in a book right now, and
I'm writing a chapter in myfamily, and the first part I say
about her is, you know, she'sshe taught me a lot about
empathy, care, and she wasselfless, you know, she didn't
care. She taught me to speakfluent French. I was very young
and spoke fluent French. I wishI would have kept it up after
(10:44):
she passed. But she was anartist. She was smart, just
because she looked different andhad a disease. To us, she was,
you know, kind of our shininglight. And so to us, it was very
natural and normal. So we neverlooked at anybody differently if
they had, you know, any kind ofdisease or disorder or anything.
We just always treated everybodythe same. That's how we grew
Natalie (11:07):
up. I think that's I think that's important. That's
why I wanted to jump in on thatjust a little bit. Because I
think when you we talked to alot of caregivers, there is a
culture of care and for morepeople than not, that they've
experienced, and that mostpeople don't identify being as
youth caregivers or childcaregivers helping out, because
they think, oh, that's just whatI do. And the reality is, is
(11:29):
that the person that you'rehelping has, has more needs than
the traditional, neurotypicalperson and or perhaps is a
general physically abled person.
So So you you get off, and yougo into the world, you're
working, and you're doing you'redoing life, doing life. And
then, and then, what happens?
(11:50):
What happens? What's the firstbet? Because you're running into
it, because you have kids,you've got life going on. And so
life gets in the way.
Unknown (11:58):
I got married and to somebody from high school, and
we had a beautiful daughtertogether, and he and I did not
work out, let's just say he hadsome addiction problems that
just couldn't be, you know,couldn't be ignored. And so I
had to move on and and I wasworking and making a career for
myself and supporting mydaughter. I had the best mom and
(12:20):
dad that I traveled a lot withmy company so that I was able to
leave my daughter with my momand dad and pursue my career
too. I learned to be independentreally quickly, and I'm not
counting on anybody. So I'vealways kind of just knew that I
had to take care of me and mydaughter. I did try marriage
again, and that did not work outso well, he was one of those
(12:41):
great people that does reallygood when world is good. But
when he lost his job during the,you know, the real estate boom,
we lost our house, we wentthrough a lot of that, you know,
he just couldn't cope with that.
And it was somebody that I had ahard time respecting after that,
when they just fall apart andand so I said, I might as well
do it myself. I can keep myselftogether. I can't focus on
somebody else. So I, you know,I've been through the normal
(13:03):
things. You know, you grow up,you have this. And a lot of
people get married, divorced, Inever really thought about
anything. I just knew I had totake care of, you know, myself
and my daughter and beresponsible. And then my mom was
always smoking. She was a chainsmoker all the time. Would not
quit smoking. She had a lot ofchronic problems and breathing.
(13:26):
And I was constantly runningover to her house to make sure
that she could breathe, andteach her breathing techniques,
and getting calls in the middleof the night because she
couldn't breathe. And I meet thefire trucks and the fire and the
ambulance there, and she'd goback and forth to the hospital,
and she refused to quit smoking.
And she was one of thosepowerful women that's very
(13:48):
independent. You're not going totell her what to do. And she
refused to stop smoking, whichwas very difficult for me,
right? I will tell you that Idid do some online crazy, wild
dating, and I even wrote a bookcalled seriously on it. Never
published it. It was kind of myown therapy, boy can I can tell
you stories about that foranother time, but wrote a book,
(14:08):
and at the end of that book, Irealized that I wasn't really
looking for a man. What I wasreally looking for was something
in me, some something you know,that I could count on with
myself. And so that was my formof therapy, to be honest.
Therapy wasn't talked about withmy family. We're very Catholic.
We don't go to therapy, we don'tair our dirty laundry. So I went
(14:30):
through a lot of all of thosethings with very limited
support. You know, MarriageDivorce is hard. Raising a kid
is hard. My daughter wentthrough some tough times. You
know, with her addictions, isamazing personnel and a mother
of two and a half babies duehere in September, October
timeframe. So we, you know, Iwent through a lot of things
(14:52):
that I thought was normal. Andso I think that I just got so
used to getting hit with curveballs after curve balls. I. To
curve balls that I didn't reallysee him as boy. This is setting
me up for something, I believe,for to be strong for the further
things that was going to happenin my life. So that's where we
(15:14):
get to my mom. Okay, I'm gonna,
Natalie (15:17):
I'm gonna pause this right there, because we're, I
can't believe we're already,like 15 minutes in, oh my gosh,
yeah, so Jay, we're going to beright back. We're going to take
a quick break, and we'll beright back
Unknown (15:28):
looking for care in all the wrong places. Try care
scout. Our care finder helps youlocate long term care providers
in your area who are committedto quality, person centered care
with care Scout, you can alsoorder a personalized care plan
created by a licensed nurse justfor you. So say goodbye to a
path to aging care that'snothing but confusing, and say
(15:51):
hello to a more dignifiedjourney, including providers who
see you as you and a plan forquality care you can feel good
about Learn more at carescout.com.
Hi everybody. We are back, andwe're with Angela. So Angela, we
have gone over your past, youknow, life, growing up,
relationships, and we're at apoint where your mom becomes
(16:15):
ill, or you start to noticesymptoms. So let's talk about
your mom, her illness and thatcaregiving experience. Tell me
how that started.
Because I was so close to my momand my brother and sister
weren't living right by us. Ibecame the number one care
provider for my mom. So shedidn't believe in doctors, and
she didn't believe in going tothe doctor, everything. She was
(16:36):
very private. So I just kind oftook on that role of being the
one my dad was not, you know, hewasn't the typical Italian
Catholic that could go in thereand, you know, and and be soft
and easy with her. He justdidn't know what to do. So he
just kind of froze. So it becamemy my job, pretty much. But what
we started noticing with my mom,I didn't notice for the first
(16:58):
three years, and I feel reallybad about that, but she started
accusing my dad of bringing homeclothes that didn't belong to
Him, asking where he got this,and started thinking that maybe
he was having an affair, allthese different things. And I'm
like, when does he have timemom? But she actually convinced
me, because my mom has alwaysbeen my stable force, so I
(17:18):
believed her for the longesttime, for probably two or three
years and I had a big conflictwith my father. He taught me
He's not lying, he's not doinganything. When do I have time to
do anything? But that was thesigns, the early signs of
Alzheimer's with my mom, andthen then it became that my dad
was trying to kill her, and thathe had other people, and there
(17:38):
was cameras and vents in the inthis, in the ceiling. I mean,
just really, really radicalstories, getting calls at all
hours of the night to run over.
You know, I run over there andtry to help her. And I'd see
that the TV was covered withfoil, you know, she had her
music blaring. She was trying toblock out all these things that
was happening to her. Did it gotso terrible that we had to
(18:01):
remove my dad from the home andhis own home, and he wouldn't
stay with my brother for awhile, with my sister for a
while, while. I tried to kind ofhelp my mom and walk her
through, Mom, I think you needto go to the doctor, and then
she would get mad and angry. Youwere never going to tell her
that anything was wrong withher. So I had a sister who
wanted to, kind of, you know,let her just let my mom go with
(18:24):
what she thought, and neverreally wanted to, to dispute it,
where me and my brother wantedto get her help. And it got to
the point where, you know, mymom fell off of a ladder trying
to get to the Vince to removethe move the cameras that were
in there in her mind, and shebroke her leg, and that's how I
was able to get her to thehospital to have she had to have
surgery and everything. And thenafter that, she just kind of
(18:47):
went from nursing home tonursing home trying to get
rehabilitated. But in thatlifespan, I'll tell you, I think
the system was very flawed withthe dealing with people with
Alzheimer's who don't admit it.
So the fact that she was calling911, in the middle of the night
too, and saying that, you know,her husband was trying to kill
her, and then they were startingto realize that maybe she was a
(19:08):
little altered state, but notenough to take her out of the
home or to commit her yet, AdultProtective Services got called
in on my mom because from thepolice saying she's calling all
the time. So then we're tryingto explain to her that, you
know, what we need from the casemanager, and nobody could do
anything unless she wanted to behelped. So it was really a
challenge. She wouldn't livewith us, she wouldn't go the
(19:30):
doctor, she wouldn't get help.
So we're trying to me, because Ilived here, I was absolutely
exhausted running back andforth, trying to help her
breathe, trying to make herunderstand that she's not, you
know, my dad's not trying tokill her, but trying to make it
so she wasn't angry with me. Shebecame so angry with me, and I
think that's where my heartbroke the most, was, you know,
(19:50):
she said I was the problem. Imean, she she, she hit me a
couple times. Just things thatwere just, you know. Swatted me
away. I wouldn't really say hit,but hitting me is swatting me
away. That just broke my soul,and it was probably the most
challenging. And then going tothe hospitals to visit her and
her, I tried to bring hersomething that I remember one
time I brought her something,and she flipped me off, and she
(20:13):
threw the McDonald's at me andtold me to get out of there.
Other times I go visit her, andshe'd tell me she paid all the
bills and and that she couldn'tpay this one bill. Could I give
her money for that? She was justsuch an altered state that it
was, you know, I even moved homefrom the Bay Area, from my job
to come home and take care ofher. And during the pandemic,
(20:34):
nobody could take care of mymom, and she was so hostile and
had all these problems that Iended up quitting my job and
staying home. The first time inmy entire life I was on
unemployment, the mostembarrassing thing to me, which
I don't know why. I mean, Inever been on it before, but to
me, it was embarrassing, and Itook care of her for almost a
year and a half because nobodyelse could manage that. Wow. So
(20:55):
it was a very painful process,and I feel like I lost my mom a
long time before she actuallypassed away.
You mentioned disappearing,which I thought was was
interesting in your story, but Iwant to talk about you, because
we talk about that, you know,and you've told us already that
(21:16):
you quit your job, and that's adefinite impact. Tell me a
little more about thatrelationship with your mom, and
because I know earlier, you hadsaid to us that you now still
grieve, that somewhat you stillhave feelings about the impact
that that had, that you saidcursing became the love language
that her passing really camewith grief, but there was also
(21:39):
some relief around that.
Yeah, and I know that soundsmaybe a little
Natalie (21:43):
harsh, but I just don't think it is. I think at some
point it's there is relief. AndI and we would say that really
out loud to people like, it'sokay if you feel relief after
your loved one has passed,because there's so many like
they're not in pain. It is verystressful, but everybody thinks
that, you know, you should justfall apart when someone passes
(22:06):
and it's unexpected. You know,
Unknown (22:08):
there's a little bit of a story to getting to my mom,
because my husband was beforethat a little bit, but just kind
of sticking with this part. Ithink what I felt with my mom
was that I've already lost her along time ago, and I already
grieved a lot, but I nevergrieved in losing my mom. And I
think that's really important. Igrieved more of an effect in
(22:31):
being angry of who she became.
And until you can forgive andget over that part, it's really
hard to grieve her real loss.
And I mean, there's so manygreat things my mom did her
whole life. Why do I hold on tothe for the last eight years
that were miserable? Becausethat's what I lived and
breathed. And I got to a pointof complete exhaustion, where
(22:51):
financially I was broke,emotionally I was broke. I
wanted her to be at peace andnot be tormented with all these
terrible things. She lived agood life. We all loved her. She
was so tormented with what shethought her life was that I
really wanted her to be atpeace. So there was a lot of
that, and to this day, I'm stillnot where I need to be. I
(23:13):
haven't gone to visit her at thecemetery, I haven't done a lot
of those things because I'm notready, and I know that that'll
happen in my own time. You justcan't rush it. It has to happen
when it's ready. And I'm givingmyself grace. It took a lot of
years to get to this point togive myself some grace on that,
but caregiving for her wasexhausting in every single
(23:34):
avenue, and to the point thatyou don't know what to do, my
daughter would get so mad andwant to protect me, and she
couldn't protect me, but yet, Inever gave up. I still showed
up. I still went there all thetime. I felt like it's and it's
kind of where you feel like it'san abusive relationship at that
point, where you're just givingand giving and giving and all
you're getting back is foullanguage and anger. But at the
(23:56):
end, I know that my mom, Kay, Iwent to say goodbye to her very
difficult time for me to dothat, but I did it, and I felt
she was kind of at peace, and weheld hands, and she seemed to
know a little bit of who I was,a little bit of clarity. And I
did tell her that I loved her.
So I did feel I had a little bitof that closure, but still,
still need to have more closureand to be able to forgive and
(24:20):
forget those last eight yearsand remember all the beautiful
years and all the things thatshe did teach me, that's still a
lesson I say I'm learning.
Angela, you, you already kind offoretold a little bit so you
said at the same time near theend with your mom, you stepped
into another caregiving kind oftime frame, is that, right? So
(24:43):
tell me when your mom passed.
Just kind of give us a littletime frame. Is the timeline?
Yeah, little time. Somy mom passed away in March,
early March, so I was a march ofit's been three years now, so I
don't even it's five. Me how Ipeople say, what's the exact
date? I don't keep track of thedates. I just know that it was
three years ago. And I'm this ismy third year of not celebrating
(25:06):
birthdays. I try not to rememberso much the days. But to me, it
was, it was there was threeyears ago in March and before
that. And you know, mind you, Isaid I wasn't going to get
married again. I was going to doall that. I ended up finding the
love of my life, and we weretogether for 10 years. He was
just somebody who came into mylife 18 years older, a fluke
(25:28):
from my friend was dating hisson, and she asked me to come
over to dinner one night andmake lasagna with him and just
entertain him, because they wereliving together at the time, and
he was lonely, and I'm like, ohgosh, you know, so I go over
there, and it wasn't love atfirst sight for me, I could tell
you that, but it was love atfirst sight for him. And he was,
(25:50):
like, so excited that I was, youknow, talking about leadership,
and I was a strong, independentwoman. He was really drawn to
that. And I'm used to not havingmen that are in my life that are
not afraid of they're usually alittle bit intimidated, right?
And so he made me feel amazing.
Natalie (26:08):
How did caring for your mom impact that relationship?
Because you said 10 years, andyou said with your mom, it was
eight. So there's crossoverwithout question. How did that
impact your relationship,especially if you quit your job
and you moved in with your mom.
Where is he at?
Unknown (26:24):
He moved with me everywhere. He retired. He was
he worked as an ultrastenographer, and he decided to
retire. He could make more moneyretire, between pensions and and
retirement. So he retired. So hereally focused on my career, and
we moved to the Bay Area. Wecame back to take care of my mom
100% supportive. He would get upwith me in the middle of the
(26:45):
night and and drive with me tomy mom every single time. He
never batted an eye. He was justalways there. He did record my
mom a few times so that if weever wanted to show how she was
an altered state, we could buthe was mostly there just to hold
my hand, be supportive. She wascruel and angry with him, and,
(27:05):
you know, did some things to himtoo. So he felt a lot of that as
well, but he that's what I'msaying. He was just right there.
Now, mind you, my husband hadlost his wife. He was married
for 30 years, and she passedaway from cancer, so he was a
caretaker of her. So he alreadyhad that empathy when somebody
was sick and not feeling good,so he was just kind of stepped
(27:29):
in and and was, was my light andguiding me through that
Natalie (27:33):
so that he was a caregiver for a caregiver. Yep,
Unknown (27:36):
exactly. He was a caregiver for a caregiver. And
it was, I mean, he wouldn't letme even drive to work. I'll take
you to work. I'm retired. Hedrive me to work. He picked me
up. He
Natalie (27:45):
cooked dinner for that.
That feels super privileged. Ilike that. He did that. And
Unknown (27:49):
I remember him getting up every morning, and had to
look nice to drop me off. And hewould come out of the bathroom
and he'd go, damn, I'm goodlooking.
Natalie (27:58):
Beep. That's okay. I just beat that out for you. I
love that he thought he was sogood looking. That's hilarious.
So
Unknown (28:05):
let me what I love is that, sorry, no, go ahead. But
what I love is that lovesometimes comes from the most
unexpected places that we lookand look and look and then there
it is. And I love that. Angela,make it lasagna for your friend,
who's, you know, saying, Comeover here and entertain this
man. So sorry, Nat,
Natalie (28:21):
go ahead. No, no, it's well. And you know, I know that
you know you your mom passes,you feel this relief, because
I'm assuming you have this senseof normalcy, like you're trying
to find what your life is goingto be like with him, and what
does life look like. And then Idon't think too far long after
care comes back into your comesback into your purview again,
Unknown (28:44):
well at the same time.
So my mom hadn't passed yet whenAlex got
Natalie (28:48):
sick. So realize that so
Unknown (28:52):
we were my mom was in a nursing home, so we were
somewhat relieved of the day today, but still the heartbreak
and trying to go visit her inDecember, my husband went to my
holiday party with me. Justwasn't himself. He didn't want
to dance, and he loved to dance.
He was a Latino so he loved toget in there and just dance. And
he wasn't wanting to dance. Hedidn't feel good. He went to the
doctors. They thought it waspneumonia. January, he's back in
(29:16):
the hospital again, draininglungs, and then they found some
tumors in his back, and he wasdiagnosed with cancer all
throughout his body, andbasically no cure, even chemo
wasn't recommended at that time.
So he was got a little sick inDecember, diagnosed in January,
(29:39):
and he died in February
Natalie (29:41):
was this of 2022 or What year was this? I'm just
trying to kind of get the 20202022 so he died a month before
your mom.
Unknown (29:50):
He died three weeks before my mom. Correct, he died
in that so I and so when I hadto go say goodbye to my mom, can
you imagine the the griefyou're. And I don't even
remember a whole lot about it. Ifeel like I was walking in a
daze at that time, and with myhusband, I had no
Natalie (30:07):
warning well, and you're dual caregiving at this
role, like, if you really thinkabout it, it sounds like you
supported your mom alongsideyour husband, and you've got
your siblings that are doingparts and components. Then you
ultimately move her into skillednursing, and she's there, but
that doesn't and here's thething we're gonna break. JJ, now
raise our hand. Care does notstop people. When your person
(30:31):
goes into assisted living,Senior Living, skilled nursing,
whatever, it does not end it isjust different. And so I think
that's important. And then hegets sick. Alex gets sick, and
you're visiting. And so I wouldsay life is a little upside
down. I want to pause for just asecond, because we're already at
time for a break for ourwonderful sponsors. We'll be
(30:53):
right back, because I want topick this back up and we'll be
right back. Care
Unknown (30:56):
forward is a technology platform that connects
volunteers with seniors, thedisabled and those with chronic
or complex health conditions,offering support, like
transportation, home visits andmore details
online@careforward.ioAll right, everybody, we are
back here with Angela and Ithink Natalie and I are just
kind of a heart stop right here.
(31:18):
So Angela, you've shared justsome, just the that moment where
your husband, Alex, has passedin February. You're in a days.
Your mom passes in March. Ipersonally, I'm sitting here
thinking this whole time is aday. He's like, I'm not sure how
you're functioning a daughter.
And I'm thinking, you at thattime, because she's two and a
half, she has two and a halfchildren, you know, almost she's
(31:40):
got another one on the way. Doyou have grandchildren at that
point? Yes. Are you working oryou're you're still taking care
so you're on that leave portion?
No, I'm working. At this point.
I am back to work as as a VP ofHR. So very big
responsibilities. I am trying tofunction the best that I can. My
daughter's had two kids at thispoint, and then I have a
(32:03):
granddaughter from my husband'sside, and she was the love of
our life, too. And they had toall come say goodbye to Alex.
And we had very little time toactually prepare for anything he
did come home, and I was ahospice caretaker for him as
well. So he came home and theysaid it'd probably be three
months. And it was three weekswhen he was home and he passed,
(32:23):
you know, I was administeringthe morphine. I was
administering the drugs. I had anurse come and help me bathe him
a couple times a week. Iremember getting very frustrated
trying to help him brush histeeth, and he didn't understand.
You know, he was starting toreally lose the comprehension
and having him try to brush histeeth and then rinse with
mouthwash, and he would swallowthe mouthwash, and I'd say, No,
(32:45):
you're not supposed to swallow.
You're supposed to spit it backout. And I remember getting very
angry over that silly thing.
But, you know, it wasn't justthat thing. It was just what the
position I was in going into theother room and screaming and
crying and and a part of me wasmad at him for not wanting to
even try the chemo to see if itcould extend his life, that here
I was dealing with my mom, andthen you're diagnosed, and
(33:08):
you're like this. You're so fastI don't get a chance to even
breathe, to even think aboutanything and plan better. It was
just such a whirlwind. And then,you know, the hardest part for
me is when I knew he was goingto pass, and nobody believed me,
but I felt it was getting close.
My daughter and her fiance andher two kids came to stay with
(33:31):
me at the house, and the littleone, who is He's four years old
now. So he was one years oldwhen this happened, and he was
just this love of my life. Hewanted to stick with me. He knew
something was wrong, but hedidn't know what. So he came to
sleep with me at night, thatnight, and Alex was next to me
in the hospice bed, and I'mholding his hand, and I remember
(33:53):
telling I'm just going to rollover and check on, you know,
Hudson, to make sure he's okay.
So when I rolled over, I guess Ifell asleep. And when I fell
asleep, that's when he passed.
So when I woke up, I was soupset that I wasn't there when
he passed. But I know that'swhat he wanted, and I know he
did it on purpose, but he tookaway to me that that that chance
(34:14):
for me to really say goodbye,you know. So that was probably
the hardest thing, and I thinkthat nobody can sorry. I don't
think that anybody canunderstand unless you've gone
through it, you know, and thisis a thing that nobody wants to
talk about, but, you know,taking the body out of there,
(34:34):
those things are PTSD momentsthat you live with every day of
your life. You know, those werereally hard to see and to
witness. And you know, I havegood family and friends, thank
goodness. But, you know, threeweeks he passes away, and then I
have to go and go to my mom andsay goodbye to my mom, and then
(34:55):
go to her funeral, which washard to do, and I hadn't even
planned what I was going. To dowith my husband yet. So in the
meantime, I am taking time offof work. Thank God. My job was
very good to me during thistime, to let me have as much
time as I needed, and verysupportive. But I think that,
you know, there's more to thatstory we can talk about in a
(35:15):
minute, but I think it's justall that, all that at one time
is a lot for one person tohandle. And I know I've been
through a lot leading up tothis, but not like this. I mean,
I was angry with God, I wasangry with Alex, angry with my
mom, angry with everybody, andit was a really difficult time.
And I don't think I realized howdifficult it was, and the PTSD
(35:39):
that comes with it, when youwake up in the middle of night
and you remember doing medicine,or you remember doing these
things as a caretaker. Could Ihave done something different?
Should I have done somethingbetter? You go through those,
that's normal feelings, but you,you, you just kind of sweep it
under the rug, because that'skind of how I grew up. You just
sweep on the rug. You keepmoving. And if you do that,
(36:01):
you're you're not reallyhealing, and it's going to be a
long festering pain, unless youstart dealing with it head
Natalie (36:08):
on. Festering is the right word. I think festering is
the right word, and I reallyappreciate how authentic you are
with our with with folks thatare listening, because I think
there's so many people who canrelate and say I felt
overwhelmed too, and like I'msurprised, like, you didn't pull
like an Angela Bassett when inthat waiting to excel, where she
just, like, blows the car up andjust is like, Screw it. I'm
(36:30):
leaving. And because I wouldhave wanted to have quit, like,
I quit. And so anybody out therewho's not been a caregiver
probably would be like, I justwant to walk away or let
somebody else do it, or why? Whydidn't your family step into
care and take the lead when yourhusband was this? Or why didn't?
There's lots of whys. And whenyou've not lived in the middle
of the total dumpster fire, youdon't even think. For me, there
(36:54):
are many times I thought, and itwas typically when I was walking
by myself. I'd take 20 minutesto walk by myself in the city,
and I'd be like, what if Ididn't go back? And I think
about that, what if I didn't,what if I just stayed here at
Trader Joe's under the coolbridge and forever, and I just
kept pretending that might takean extra five minutes, that was
(37:15):
my defiance, like I'm going totake, say, an extra five minutes
for myself and then I go back,because not returning was never
an option. Yeah? Like, yeah. Imean, I kind of had to return. I
mean, even if I had to go tosomewhere to sleep. So exactly,
I think that's, I think this isso such an important thing to
talk about, because you'reright. How do you even plan when
(37:37):
you've got and you're planningfor someone's passing and, you
know that sort of thing, had youand your husband talked about
before he got sick? Had you allplanned for passing and death
and had all the things in placethat you needed?
Unknown (37:51):
Yes, and he he wanted to be cremated. So at least I
knew that he didn't want afuneral. He wanted a celebration
of life, which I was able topull together a few months
afterwards, but it took me alittle time to heal. I had to go
through my mom. I think I wentback to work a few months and
then I think we had his, his hiscelebration of life. And what I
(38:13):
one thing I want to say is thatI think is really important for
employers. I just this issomething that I believe in.
They're really good, I think ata lot of times of helping you
when you're going through thestuff, right? But people expect,
when I went back to work, and itwas the hardest day going back
to work, but because you smile,because you go out, have, you
know, why? Why you have cocktailhour with somebody after work,
(38:36):
or because you finish a project,they think, Oh, she's fine.
She's good. And so they don'trealize that there are some
signs of things that are maybebuilding, and they're oblivious
to it, because they want tobelieve you're okay and you're
not. When you lose somebody,you're not healed in two months,
because you go back to work, byany means, you're going to go
(38:57):
through things, and I thinkthat's the one thing that I I
take responsibility for is I letmyself be pretend I was okay to
make everybody else feelcomfortable.
Natalie (39:09):
Oh, now that's the money statement. It's the truth.
I let myself be okay because Ididn't want anybody else to feel
uncomfortable, even in the timebefore Jason and I moved like,
Yes, oh, we don't want it. Andpeople are like, Oh, I'm so
sorry. And you're like, Oh,that's okay. No, I just say
thank you now, like, Thank you.
Unknown (39:28):
You know, Angela is so interesting. You say that
because I think about when ourdad passed away, and, oh, a
little different than Alex, buthe passed away tragically, like
he just died on the Fourth ofJuly, massive heart attack, and
still a little angry, never saidgoodbye, and so that's an issue.
But I remember when he died, andI was a commercial lender, and
so you get that week off fromwork and you go back to work,
(39:50):
but I never really felt like Idealt with that. And about a
year and a half later, I waslaid off, and the prior year I
had been. The top Lender of mybank. And I never, I never
really dealt with it. And as Ilook back with it, I always
think, is it because I couldn'tprocess it? And I remember I did
the best I could. I was thesmile, I was the Okay, my
(40:11):
chipper normal get back initself, but right before it
happened, and I will not getteary eyed, I went to dinner
with our CEO and one of my bestclients and my boss, and I
remember that that good customerlooking across the table at me
at this fancy steakhouse, and hesaid, How are you doing now that
your dad? You know, I know youlost your dad last year, and I
broke at the table, and I had togo to the bathroom excuse
(40:34):
myself, because I was like, it'sa year out. I can't discuss
this. And I think you areexactly right when you say
employers. I had hidden it forso long, so everybody else would
be fine. And that's kind of aninterjection, but you have
brought up something veryimportant, that people just
don't realize that they shouldhave seen those signs that I'm
I'm doing, you know, doing asgood as I can, and just kind of
hiding it all soand I think it that I can
(40:55):
honestly say, because I lost myjob after all this too. So my
job was lost, and here I am asuperstar. I just went to, you
know, what they call the MVPaward, and I went to Cancun or
macabre, I mean, and I got todo, you know, all these
wonderful things. I was a VP ofHR. I should know better. I
should know these things too. Ireally cross so many boundaries
(41:16):
of trying, of talking aboutthings, and being things with my
team, because they were fillinga void that I didn't realize at
the time, a void of what I lost,of talking to Alex, so I
probably talked about things mypersonal life, things I
shouldn't have done, althoughthe reason that I was let go is
really Because I was bringingthings to to surface, to light
(41:41):
that was not ethical. So I stillstand by that, but how I handled
it was horrible. The things Idid leading up to that was not
good. And I have to take a lookat that and take responsibility
for that. And so here, I'venever been written up in my
entire life, in any career, anyjob I had, and here, all of a
sudden, now I am left with a fewmonths severance, and here you
(42:03):
go. And I am 50 some years old,lost my husband, lost my lost my
mom. I am financially, you know,in a situation, making a ton of
money, and now I don't havethat. And I remember being so
angry, but it's the best thingthat happened to me, and it's a
blessing in disguise, because itmade me go get therapy, and I
(42:24):
did an outpatient therapy, whichmade me realize that I was not
healthy, I was not good, and Iwas living a lie. And then that
does impact your performance,whether you want to admit it or
not, it does, and it's not evennecessarily your performance.
It's how you respond to things.
(42:46):
Is so much more emotional, somuch more magnified, so
Natalie (42:50):
magnify his exact word.
I would agree with that. I wouldagree with that we had somebody
else talk about the same thing,Angela, and especially with you
being an HR, so that I thinkthis is the part that's so
interesting. It's no differentthan me being like, I don't know
what's going on, and I and I wasso dysregulated. I was so off
when I was when Jason was sick,and I trained on how to get
(43:11):
centered and calm and all thatkind of stuff. And I wasn't
applying it. You're not applyingthe own thing. You're You're the
own strategies that you wouldadvise your own supervisors and
managers of how to interact. AndI just, I think that's so
important to say that this hadnever been a problem before. But
when you go into caregiving andgrief comes into play, and you
(43:32):
have these high like these, youhad chronic stress and
unpredictability. And I mean, itis toxic stress, and how that
impacts you and your behaviorand your actions is going to be
people were like, Oh, this isnot like you. And it's it's the
truth. It is the truth. I feltlike, at times I was losing my
(43:54):
mind, like I didn't know who Iwas, I didn't know I was
supposed to do. It's why westarted the podcast, because I
couldn't figure out what Ishould do and and the reality,
and that's why I told JJ. I waslike, Hey, we got to start a
podcast talk about this, becauseI feel crazy.
Unknown (44:09):
And she's like, good me
Natalie (44:12):
too crazy. We're both crazy. And Emily was like, Sign
me up. I'm crazy too, and we'reall crazy. And so the thing is,
is that we're not crazy, it'sthat we're in this this, it just
shows you the power of stressover a window of time and how
that can impact your decisionmaking, and everything you know,
(44:33):
and I don't know if manycaregivers who have, you know,
gone out and, like, stolen abunch of stuff or created fraud,
in the sense of that chronicstress created that negative
behavior. It's typicallyinternalized. It's typically
internalized. But we did have aguest that talked about he
realized that he was he was avery different manager when
(44:54):
after caregiving and that hishis employees responded to him
differently because. Respondedto his environment differently.
He saw his environmentdifferently. And that's what I
hear you saying 100%
Unknown (45:09):
and you don't know it at the time. So you know, part
of me was mad. Well, you know,maybe I'm not well, but why
didn't you guys, especially my,you're in my HR team, why didn't
somebody ask me, Hey, are youokay? Yeah. Are you okay?
Because they don't want to dealwith the uncomfortableness of
it. And if somebody had maybesaid to me, you know, maybe,
maybe that's a big maybe still,Hey, are you okay? You seem a
(45:31):
little off. Maybe I would havebeen got help earlier. I don't
know, but I can't go back on.
All I know is that, but being,you know, going through that
loss of a job added anotherlevel to me that I knew I needed
help and I couldn't do it on andso that's when I went to the
therapy, and I found that when Iwas there, I didn't take pride
or happiness and joy ineverybody else being sad, but
(45:56):
what I did is I felt connectedto somebody who could understand
what I'm feeling and I couldunderstand what they're feeling,
and it gave me this ability tohelp. I wanted to help other
people. I walked away knowingthat by me helping other people,
by me talking about, by metelling my story, by me just
holding them and being there, itmade me realize that that was
(46:17):
part of my healing as well,which goes back to what you said
my upbringing. I'm not one tosit and just be shot down and
stay down. I'm going to figureout what it takes to get back up
and fight again and what thatmeans. And to me, my purpose now
is, yeah, I got to have a joband I got to survive. But I also
think it's important to get themessage on and talk to and touch
(46:38):
and help as many people as Ican, because I understand I see
you, and I think that's thebiggest thing. A lot of people
don't see you, but I thinkpeople like us who have been
through this, we see people, wereally see them. And that
matters. That really mattersbecause that makes you feel a
little more complete and alittle bit more strength to keep
(47:01):
going. And some days I wouldsay, I don't, I don't even want
to get up just, you know, I wantto go be with my loved ones in
heaven, you know, just take me.
I don't want to do this. And Idid go through days like that.
And now I was like, you know,these people brought me joy and
happiness. I have to fight forthat, and I'm going to let the
good part of them remain in me,and it's, it's a it's a
(47:23):
challenge. And trust me, notevery day do I wake up and feel
good. No, I have good days baddays. That's why I say I'm a
work in progress. And you don'tknow, you know, my boss the
other day asked me how I wasdoing, just a normal meeting,
we're going to talk about ourwork stuff. And she said, How
are you doing? And I burst outcrying, and I had no idea why,
none. And I she goes, Oh my God,is work stressing? What's going
(47:46):
on? And I said, I just came outof my mouth. I miss my husband.
I miss holding his hand watchingTV. I miss waking up with them.
I'm I miss him. And I cried onthe phone with my boss, I was
mortified, and I said, I am sosorry. But you know what? She
let she just let me. She goes,oh my gosh, I can't even imagine
(48:07):
I lost my mom, but that's notthe same as your spouse. I get
it. And she says, You can cry.
You can Oh, don't neverapologize. Just be yourself. You
want to take some time off. Andshe made me feel so comfortable
that I was able to gathermyself, and we had a very
productive call and got the workdone, but she allowed me to say
it out loud and not judge me orbe uncomfortable with it, which
(48:30):
was the first time that I'vebeen able to talk about
something without feeling thatsomebody was uncomfortable.
Natalie (48:39):
That's a safe space.
So, you know, there's all thesethings going on. You have all
this hard and the thing is, isGod's not done with you yet. And
I don't mean that in a bad way.
I mean life continues. That'sthe thing that we do, is, even
though our loved ones, when theyleave us, we continue. And how
(48:59):
do we continue? And you've gotyour dad, and so you're trying
to reorient yourself. You havelot, you've you've been on it,
you've been let go, leftwhatever. You have disconnected
from the employer. That's myconnected, yeah. And so
regardless. And then somethinghappens, and then care hits you
(49:24):
again. When? So your mom passedin Alex passed in February. Your
mom passed in March. When doescare start coming in?
Unknown (49:34):
So my dad was living with my brother, but he was
begin getting to, you know, tobe too hard for my brother to
manage, and they were travelinga lot, so we he would go to my
sisters for a while inWashington, and it just became
too much. Though. We talked tomy dad about finding a place,
and my dad was so much moreaccommodating than my mom and
willing to say, Yeah, I can gointo a place. He was just, you
(49:55):
know, not. He was starting to,like, blow up. He. He almost
blew up the house with leavingthe gas on in the house, he had
done some things that were youcouldn't leave him alone to take
care of himself, and he knew it.
And so we put him in, we checkedout a couple facilities, and we
put him in one that was about anhour from me and closer to my
brother. But then he wastraveling all the time, so I
(50:16):
would go visit my dad everyweekend, almost every weekend,
some weekends I just, I couldn'tgather the energy to go. It was
just, you know what it was, andI made it very clear to my
brother and sister, I am notable to take care of my dad. I
had to say, I am not physically,emotionally or mentally able to
care for dad. Don't ask him tomove in with me. I've got my
(50:38):
daughter living with me, herkids, you know, with me now they
don't want me to be alone. Idon't want to be alone. I just
can't do I just didn't have thecapacity.
Natalie (50:48):
And that's, that's the bravest, kindest things that you
can do to yourself.
Unknown (50:53):
Yeah, yes. And it was also guilt, though. But my dad
was such a different beast. Heunderstood it, you know, my dad
just went with the flow. So thenmy dad, I got a call one day
that my dad wasn't able toswallow very well, and they took
him to the hospital. So my dadwas diagnosed with throat cancer
and was given about they'd sayno more than six months to live.
(51:19):
And it was progressed, and therewas no real treatment for him.
So at that point, I said, if I'mgoing to be the care care,
primary care provider for mydad, and move him closer to me
so that it's easier for me to govisit and you know how hard it
is to find a Medi Cal bed thatis willing to accept him? I went
through a lot of hoops. Took memonths begging and pleading with
(51:42):
people, so my stress levels wereeven harder trying to try to
find something. I got him inAuburn, which is close to me.
You know, it was still, still a40 minute drive, but at least it
was closer. So got him there,and it was the worst care that I
could have put my dad in. Imean, nobody cared. Nobody was
coming around. He was outwithout water all the time. If I
(52:04):
didn't stay on top of things atthat place, they would have just
said, Oh, he's dying anyway.
Let's just let him go. I meanthis, the level of care was so
heartbreaking to me and sodisappointing. And they were
short staffed, so some of it is,you know, an inevitable but just
not they lost his clothes. Theywould do his laundry. I said,
stop doing the laundry. I'mtaking his clothes home. I would
(52:25):
buy all new clothes his I'd seehis roommate wearing his
clothes, and I'm like, what? Whyam his roommate wearing his
clothes? Speaking our language?
Yeah, yeah. All those things.
The food, he was terrible. Thechef, he came out and me and his
chef got into it. Melissa iswhat he's supposed to eat, and I
said he's going to die anyways.
(52:46):
Let him have what he wants toeat. My dad loved to eat. He was
a foodie. Let him eat what hewants within reason that he's
not going to choke. I get that.
So I was back and forth againtrying to hold down my new job,
which, thankfully, they werevery understanding. And my dad
got covid, and from the from thenursing home, so he became
(53:06):
really sick with covid. I walkedin one night, he was burning
with a fever. Nobody had noticedit. I had to go get them, and
then they had to be quarantined.
It was a nightmare. I remembertaking my granddaughter, who
loved him, to visit, and shesang songs. She was a great she
was a wonderful singer. So shewas singing songs to my dad,
(53:29):
trying to cheer him up. And Iremember some old ladies were
mad and slammed the door, andshe's got a beautiful voice, and
they're like, come on, we'retrying to cheer the place up,
you know. So it was just not agood feeling all the way around.
And then they said my dad wasprobably going to pass soon
because of the covid. The covidhad really kind of taken him. So
I had this feeling I couldn't Icouldn't tell you why. And this
(53:51):
is my bizarre story. I told myjob I gotta go. I just feel like
my dad's gonna go. He's gonnapass any day, any minute. I
gotta go. And I was so logicalgoing through this process. I
said my dad's going to die, it'sgoing to be a long time, so I'm
going to stop and I'm going toget McDonald's on the way over
there, and I'm going to eat acheeseburger and a fry and and
I'm going to get some energy inme, because I know I'm probably
(54:13):
going to be there a long time.
Why I even thought that? I don'tknow, but that's your logical
brain kicks in to take care ofthe body. You know what you got
to do to prepare for and I didthat. Stopped the Nate in the
car got there, probably within30 minutes, my dad passed, and I
held his hand during this time Iwas able to be there. It was a
different experience, a littlebit more lighthearted in that
(54:35):
fact, because there wasn't thisanimosity, there was love
between my dad and I. Ithappened. I knew it was coming.
I was prepared, but I still satthere and cried and cried and
cried, and then they came in,and they do their final test.
And I'll never forget the thingthat I saw, and I know it's
probably nothing, but to me, inmy mind, this is what I'm still
(54:58):
dealing with. The PTSD from mydad is they check his eyes and,
you know, they check and makesure that it's gone. But I
remember seeing this panickedlook in my dad's eyes, and I was
like, did was he scared to die?
You know, did he die even thoughI was here? Was he still scared?
Or was that just a reaction thebody goes through? And so that
(55:19):
stayed with me for a littlewhile, and I sat in the car. I
didn't drive home. I sat in thecar for a while outside of the
place, and just cried. And thenwe had to plan his funeral and
bury him with my mom. And I wasjust like, Okay, what else you
gonna give me, God? Because Igot no more to give. I got no
(55:40):
more to give. I don't even knowhow to function at this point.
And I went back to work threedays later and and they were all
good about it, but I lease workfrom home. So, you know, I
travel off and on, but i Whatare you going to do? I mean, you
have to continue to take care ofyourself financially and work.
But it was another blow, anotherbig blow that, you know broke my
(56:02):
heart, but I know he's with mymom, and he's with Alex now, so
there was a little bit of senseof relief that he wasn't in pain
because he was in pain.
Natalie (56:11):
Yeah. So this has been a couple. This has been your,
did your did your dad pass in2022, in 2023, so last year,
three. So it's, so it's, it'sbeen about year and a half. Two.
Unknown (56:24):
No, he passed. I'm sorry, yeah, 2023, yes. I want
Natalie (56:28):
to, because typically we go into sister questions. And
so I want to start with, I wantto ask you, what did you do
after like, What's life beenlike over the last two years, as
you are trying to figure outlife,
Unknown (56:44):
soul searching. Hired a life coach that I thought would
maybe help me a little bit with,but mostly more about business
and career and kind of thingsthat helped me with some things,
which was good. I learned a lotfrom that about myself. What
I've been doing, to be honest,is, um, I guess I would say,
(57:08):
learning to live differently.
Um,
Natalie (57:12):
I think that I was looking for like, how is the
care? How has this experiencecombined with all your past
experiences? But how has thisexperience like, what if you
decided, because I know you'redoing something with it, you're
not just gonna continue to theperson that melts into a puddle?
Unknown (57:30):
No, well, I think that, you know, the first thing that I
kind of have to get used to, andI'm trying to do it, is I'm not
a party of two anymore. I'm aparty of one. And no matter how
hard that is to accept, it isthat, and that has changed
sometimes a little dynamics ofmy friendships. I have amazing
(57:50):
friends, 100% amazing friendsthat are supportive, but I don't
want to always be the thirdwheel with all my couple friends
that we did things togetherwith. So I'm learning how to
become a little bit moreconfident and showing up to
places by myself and being okaywith that, and meeting my
friends places. I can tell you,that is what I'm kind of trying
to deal now. And it's like,hard, because if something good
(58:12):
or bad happens, I want to callmy friends and tell them, but
it's like I stop myself because,you know, they have their own
lives. They can't constantly behearing everything that's going
on with me that I used to tellmy mom or my husband. So I've
learned to be a little more selfsufficient in trying to deal
with things. And so I writethings down. I'm a writer. I
(58:33):
write things down. I write myanger, I write I write songs, I
write poems. I do that writing.
And then if I just sit with itfor a little bit, just sit with
it, I find that I can usuallyfind some kind of relief in it
by and I'll always have to go tosomebody. Would I like to go to
somebody? Yeah, I would love togo to somebody. And my friends
(58:54):
are always there for me, but Idon't want to drain my friends
from their things that they'regoing through. And it's always
about me. So it changes yourfriendships, it changes your
life, it changes yourrelationships, and you have to
try to find what makes you feelgood. And what I'm finding that
makes me feel good, to behonest, is talking about it, is
writing about it, is sharing it.
(59:17):
So at some point in my life, Idon't know when, and I'm letting
it happen naturally andorganically, which is important.
I would like to do somethingsimilar to what you guys are
doing, is my own podcast to talkto people and to let them hear
the stories and let them feelthat they're not being judged
and they're okay that, you know,I want it to be raw and
unfiltered. I mean, I say thingsthat nobody wants to hear, but
(59:41):
I'm not going to apologize forit anymore. That's my healing
process for me to be real, andI'm going to do that. So I think
that's where I'm kind of leadingtowards in my life. And I think
it's time for me at some point,to kind of do what I've always
felt I needed to do in my wholelife. I've always felt. I should
help people now, I've got abigger reason and a lot to share
(01:00:05):
that makes me real, and I don't.
I'm not going to pretend to beanything. I'm not. I'm still
work in progress, and I stilldon't know exactly how I'm going
to do all that, because I'mstill working through things,
but I feel like I'm on the rightpath. Well,
well, Natalie, we have learnedI'm just overwhelmed today with,
like, all of my, my emotion,first of all, and then my I just
(01:00:29):
did things. I've learned youwant to jump into sister
questions, because I know, I'mlike, Oh my gosh, I could
Natalie (01:00:33):
talk. I mean, I asked my question. I'm like, I'm
waiting for you to ask yours.
Okay, like, wake up. First
Unknown (01:00:37):
of all, we got some information from Angela, which I
want to tell you guys, we'regonna It's so good that I want
to make sure I'm going to make aI'm going to make a post out of
it, Angela, because we have fivethings that have actually helped
me survive loss. I'm going toput that up on our page. I'm
going to include it. But ittalks about writing and it talks
about crying like it's a sport.
I just I thought that, like it'syour job. So there's so many
(01:01:00):
things there's I actually amgoing to post it because it's so
fantastic. I do have a questionfor you, and it's about
something that you said. Itsays, let's see, because I wrote
it down, it says, I've learnedthat about surviving. I learned
that surviving caregiving andgrief isn't about doing it
perfectly. And I think so manypeople struggle with that. Just
(01:01:22):
give me a little insight whenit's okay, that it's okay not to
do it perfectly. Ithink that we hold ourselves and
feel like that it's their lasttime of life. We want everything
to be perfect. We wanteverything to them to go
perfectly. But it doesn't happenthat way. You know, it's not,
it's, let's just be real. It'slike rate you're you're taking
(01:01:42):
care of somebody who's like achild again, that child's not
going to behave the way you wantthem to behave. They're not
going to cooperate the way youwant them to cooperate. You're
not going to respond perfectly.
You know how many times I gotmad at my husband because he
wouldn't do something, but hecouldn't, and I'd get mad and go
in the other room and he'd say,I'm sorry, I'm sorry, and I
would like, Don't tell me you'resorry. And I remember being
(01:02:04):
angry and mad and and that's notperfect, that's real. It's
realistic. And then I go back inand say, I'm sorry, honey, I
didn't I'm not mad at you. I'mmad at the situation, and it's
always just reminding yourselfthat it's not mad at anybody.
It's a situation that you're madat, and it's not perfect. You're
gonna make mistakes. You'regonna have regrets. Everybody
(01:02:25):
says, I wish I would have donethis. There's no right answer.
There's no correct way to do it.
It's surviving to get throughit. And you do the best that you
can, and then you learn. Youtake away something from that,
that you can incorporate thatmakes you better in the future,
and that's all you can do. Idon't know any other way to say
it's been perfect or notperfect. It's it's some things
(01:02:48):
that went really well and somethings went really bad, and to
accept it and give yourself alittle bit of grace.
Natalie (01:02:56):
There's no better way to say that's caregiving.
Sometimes it goes really well,sometimes it goes really bad,
exactly, it's messy, and youjust and just live in the mess.
Some days, just live in the messpeople well, and that one,
Unknown (01:03:12):
I would just say, the one thing that's most important,
I think, to me, and what I foundis, is to to live in the
emotion. So when you're you'resad, and when you're grieving,
when you're angry, accept that.
Accept where you're feeling forthat moment. Invite it to the
table, and, you know, havedinner with it. Go to bed with
it. Wake up in the morning, makeit a friend. Name it if you have
(01:03:32):
to do whatever you have to do,because if you ignore it or
sleep it under the table, it'sgoing to come back in a bit in a
bigger force. So you might aswell reconcile with it, make it
a friend, and deal with it andfigure out the best way to move
forward each day. That's thebest advice I can give.
Natalie (01:03:52):
That is, without question, the best advice. All
right. Last question, this hasgot to be fast, okay, this is
always the question I ask at thevery end. Did you know it's
coming? What is your favoriteguilty pleasure? I always end
this way. I have to know. Whatis the thing that you do just
for you that really helps you tofeel like you just love it?
(01:04:13):
What's your favorite thing thatyou do just for you?
Unknown (01:04:16):
Writing and drinking red wine?
Natalie (01:04:19):
Oh, I hope you do it both at the same time. I do same
time. It's always better.
Unknown (01:04:25):
I love my writing just flows a little bit better.
Natalie (01:04:28):
It's all so free. Okay, well, guys, i we i really
appreciate everybody stickingwith us. This is an extended
episode. Angela, thank you somuch for coming on and sharing
like super words of wisdom. Ithink this was so important and
really, really happy to have youon here as a guest. And yeah,
Jay, I'm just gonna, I'm gonnatake us out until we confess
(01:04:51):
again. Take care of you.
Unknown (01:04:53):
Thank you. Appreciate it.
Natalie (01:04:58):
Well, friends, that's.
A wrap on this week's confessionagain. Thank you so much for
listening. But before you go,please take a moment to leave us
a review and tell your friendsabout the confessions podcast.
Don't forget to visit ourwebsite to sign up for our
newsletter. You'll also find avideo recording of all of our
episodes on the confessionswebsite and our YouTube channel.
(01:05:19):
Don't worry. All the details areincluded in the show notes
below. We'll see you nextTuesday when we come together to
confess again. Till then, takecare of you. Okay, let's talk
disclaimers. You may besurprised to find out, but we
are not medical professionalsand are not providing any
(01:05:41):
medical advice. If you have anymedical questions, we recommend
that you talk with a medicalprofessional of your choice. As
always, my sisters and I, atConfessions of a reluctant
caregiver, have taken care inselecting speakers, but the
opinions of our speakers aretheirs alone. The views and
opinions stated in this podcastare solely those of the
(01:06:04):
contributors and not necessarilythose of our distributors or
hosting company. This podcast iscopyrighted and no part can be
reproduced without the expresswritten consent of the
sisterhood of care LLC, thankyou for listening to the
confessions of our reluctantcaregiver podcast.
Popular Podcasts
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
My Favorite Murder is a true crime comedy podcast hosted by Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark. Each week, Karen and Georgia share compelling true crimes and hometown stories from friends and listeners. Since MFM launched in January of 2016, Karen and Georgia have shared their lifelong interest in true crime and have covered stories of infamous serial killers like the Night Stalker, mysterious cold cases, captivating cults, incredible survivor stories and important events from history like the Tulsa race massacre of 1921. My Favorite Murder is part of the Exactly Right podcast network that provides a platform for bold, creative voices to bring to life provocative, entertaining and relatable stories for audiences everywhere. The Exactly Right roster of podcasts covers a variety of topics including historic true crime, comedic interviews and news, science, pop culture and more. Podcasts on the network include Buried Bones with Kate Winkler Dawson and Paul Holes, That's Messed Up: An SVU Podcast, This Podcast Will Kill You, Bananas and more.
24/7 News: The Latest
The latest news in 4 minutes updated every hour, every day.
Dateline NBC
Current and classic episodes, featuring compelling true-crime mysteries, powerful documentaries and in-depth investigations. Follow now to get the latest episodes of Dateline NBC completely free, or subscribe to Dateline Premium for ad-free listening and exclusive bonus content: DatelinePremium.com