September 16, 2025 • 56 mins
Jenn Fredericks is the featured guest in this episode, sharing her deeply personal journey as both a long-term patient and a dedicated caregiver. Diagnosed with chronic kidney disease as a teenager, Jenn received her first kidney transplant from her father at age 15, and later a second from her husband’s twin brother. Her life took another challenging turn when her adopted daughter was diagnosed with a brain tumor at the age of eight. Jenn describes the overwhelming responsibilities of managing her own health while navigating her daughter’s complex medical needs, all while supporting her family and working through the emotional toll of caregiving.
Throughout the episode, Jenn offers candid insights into the realities of caregiver exhaustion, discussing moments of vulnerability, anxiety, and the struggle to maintain resilience. She emphasizes the importance of taking intentional pauses—physical, mental, emotional, and spiritual—to recharge and remain present for loved ones. Drawing from her experiences, Jenn has developed resources such as a caregiver exhaustion quiz and founded the Carewell Circle, an online community for caregivers seeking support and connection. Her story is a testament to the power of self-awareness, community, and proactive self-care in the face of ongoing caregiving challenges.
About Jenn:
Jenn Fredericks understands the unique challenges of caregiving from a deeply personal perspective. For over 30 years, she has navigated her own health journey with chronic kidney disease, which has included two transplants. For more than a decade, she has also been a caregiver for her daughter through complex health challenges, including a brain tumor, and she now provides long-distance care for her parents.
This extensive experience led Jenn to a powerful realization. While others called her "resilient," she often felt overwhelmed, to the point of being unable to walk through her own front door. Recognizing the gap between her inner feelings and the world's perception, she became a Personal Resilience Practitioner and Prosilience Coach. She discovered that true resilience isn't about being tougher; it begins with learning how to find small moments of presence, even in the middle of chaos.
To share these insights with other caregivers, Jenn founded Carewell Circle, a community for those who understand the complex emotions of loving someone deeply while feeling trapped. She has also created a guide titled "Caregiving Relief You Don't Have to Wait For." Through her work, she teaches others the same powerful techniques that helped her find peace amidst her own challenges.
Quiz: “What’s Draining You Most Right Now?”
subscribepage.io/caregiverquiz
Carewell Circle:
swarm.store/jenn-fredericks-prosilience-coach
Thank you to our sponsor: CareScout
Confessions of a Reluctant Caregiver
Sisterhood of Care, LLC
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Natalie (00:03):
Hey guys, it's your favorite sisters with the
Confessions of a reluctantcaregiver. Podcast. On the show,
you'll hear caregiversconfessing the good, the bad and
the completely unexpected.
You're guaranteed to relate, beinspired. Lead with helpful tips
and resources, and, of course,laugh. Now, let's get to today's
confession. I Jay,
JJ (00:33):
so I love like when we get started, because you're doing
mouth exercises.
Natalie (00:38):
You know, it also looks like one of those. Even Jen's
doing mouth exercises. Yeah,it's great. You know, I believe
mouth exercises make you happy,like we're getting ready to
start. It pushes your it makesyou smile, it makes you laugh,
it gets those happy endorphinsgoing in your body. And there's
nothing that makes me happierthan recording a podcast and
(01:01):
recorded a podcast with myfavorite oldest sister,
JJ (01:05):
yeah. Well, I just want to tell you that watching you do
mouth exercises actually makeslike you kind of look like. You
know, you know when you seethat, and not to say that, it's
like a horse, but Mr. Ed, whenhe laughs, his mouth is like you
can see. And then
Natalie (01:24):
I actually feel like a little bit like The Walking
Dead, who, if you'd like tosponsor us, there's no, I'm sure
there's caregiving in thewalking
Unknown (01:33):
I think caregivers.
Natalie (01:35):
I feel a little bit like the walking around. Sorry,
sorry, guys, we went off therails. Next morning.
JJ (01:44):
I got, I got a surprise for you. We do have a guest,
Natalie (01:48):
and she's not a zombie.
JJ (01:50):
She is kicking it, and she is, she's kicking butt. And I am
super I told her before we gotstarted, I'm actually super
excited today, because she hasyet another tool for me, I'm
very selfish, because anytimesomebody
Natalie (02:06):
cast for interventions for ourselves so that we can
also survive.
JJ (02:09):
Yes, see, there you go. And so let me, let me introduce you
to her, because I'm gettingstarted. I mean, I'm going
straight to tools. I don't careabout her story. I
Natalie (02:18):
want to know how she survives. That is so kind.
JJ (02:20):
I know, I know. So, okay, I'll listen to the story first.
Okay, today we have JenFredericks, and she's joining
us. She totally understandscaregiving, guys, it's as a
giver and as a receiver. Now,Jen has been living with chronic
kidney disease for over 30years, and for the past 10
years, she's been caregiving forher daughter through health
(02:43):
challenges, including a braintumor. Now she's also long
distance caring for her parents.
Jen says she could be sitting inher car some days, unable to
face walking through her ownfront door because she felt so
overwhelmed, while everyonearound her kept saying how
resilient she was. Don't youlove that? Like everybody's
like, Oh, you're doing a greatjob. You're so fantastic. I
Natalie (03:06):
didn't have to do anything to help. Thanks. Yeah,
JJ (03:09):
so. But she says that experience, that experience led
her, I think that experience ledher down a path to help others,
including the creation of thecaregiving relief. You don't
have to wait for God like thatname. Right off the bat, here's
spoiler alert. It all startswith a pause. I can't believe
(03:30):
you get it. So that's what I'mwaiting on. The way, Jen, we are
so excited to have you here withus
Unknown (03:35):
today. Thank you so much. I've been looking forward
to speaking with you guys.
Natalie (03:40):
Oh well, we're gonna have good fun. And I'm very
interested to hear about yourcaregiving experience. And
really, it's almost a little bitof a reverse, with you being a
recipient, you actually havingyour own kind of chronic illness
yourself and having a long termillness that you've been dealing
with and managing, and then theroles shifted, because I'm sure
(04:05):
you know you're the mama bear.
So anyway, I don't want to evenget further into that. I want
you to roll it out, and thenwe'll ask questions as we're
going along, because Moo, we'reinterrupting cows. So let's
start off with how we alwaysstart off. Give us a little bit
about your background. Tell uswhere you're from. Tell us from.
Tell us about family, of course,birth order we are always
interested in, but just kind ofbring us up to speed and get us
(04:27):
where, you know, tell us, tellus about life and up to care.
Unknown (04:33):
Yeah. So Well, I was born in Ohio, but I now live in
Wisconsin, and in between there,there were several moves as
well. I am the baby and theyoungest, the baby of how many,
just two. My sister's nine yearsolder than I am, and she
currently lives in the Midwestas well, but about, you know,
(04:54):
seven hours from me. So that'ssad, but I lived a lot in. In
Ohio on a farm. We moved toTexas with my dad's job, and
then I started feeling ill. Thenin middle school, found
ourselves in a small, small townin upstate New York, where the
doctor finally was like, Oh, Iknow what's wrong with you. It's
(05:16):
not chronic fatigue syndrome,it's kidney disease, and you
need a kidney transplant at 15?
Wow. Yeah, so it big, wow. Itwas, I mean, kind of like divine
intervention that we were inthis huge metropolitan area and
then moved to this small ruraltown, and that primary doctor,
my new pediatrician, is the onewho said, I know what this is,
(05:37):
and I was very blessed toreceive a kidney from my dad.
Oh, wow, yeah, that lasted 18years through all of the growing
up milestones, and then I gottired and it said, I'm out. And
I was lucky enough that I hadmarried into the right family,
because my husband's fraternaltwin brother was a match and
(06:00):
gave me a kidney in 2012
Natalie (06:04):
No kidding, yeah,
JJ (06:06):
this is a very these people are generous of their kidneys.
I'm not sure I could give you akid. That is fine. I mean, you
know what pass
Natalie (06:12):
out? Was there like a test on the sense of from your
from your brothers? I like thatyour your husband's it was your
husband's fraternal twinbrother, which I love, that he's
a twin, because twins run in ourfamily too, which is near and
dear to our heart. But did hecheck with you this a like, how
have you treated your dad'skidney? Which is, I mean, you
(06:33):
know, were you kind to it inyour 20s? Were you were you
respectful of the kidney?
Because if I'm going to go underthe slice of dicey, right, I
need you to make this one workfor a while. So
Unknown (06:43):
funny story, my dad is a connoisseur of Jack Daniels,
Natalie (06:50):
and so doesn't love little bourbon,
Unknown (06:53):
especially in a coke.
And so right after thetransplant with my father, back
in 93 I did go through an acutekidney rejection where I lived
in the hospital for about amonth, trying to get the kidney
back to liking my body. And mydad looks at the doctor and
said, Well, you just need to setup an IV of Jack Daniels,
because it's been without
Natalie (07:15):
for a while, saying, I know he was gonna say, could you
just pipe in Jack? Because yeah,it'll remember, it'll be, it'll
perk right up and be like, I'msorry. What dad, love your dad.
That's hilarious. This makes mehappy. Yeah, this is yes. I feel
like the name of this is gonnabe Jack. This episode is gonna
be a little Jack.
JJ (07:35):
I mean,
Unknown (07:36):
a little Jack can never hurt. Well, I mean, can? I can
for some people, but thankfullyso I do, I do treat my kidney
really well. We ended up namingit. I didn't name my first
kidney. But then a nurse askedme once here in Milwaukee, like,
Hey, have you named your kidneyfrom your brother? I'm like, Oh,
wow. He really likes sports andstuff, so maybe I'll name it
Giannis for the bucks player.
So,
Natalie (07:58):
oh, okay, that's I like that you named it after
football, because that seemslately appropriate from a person
who lives in Wisconsin.
Unknown (08:10):
Giannis is a basketball player, but I wouldn't have been
aware either, because I likemusic and theater and not so
much sports. But the only reasonI know is because of my brother
in law, so
Natalie (08:21):
he named it after a basketball player, all right?
Well, as long as we got thesports theme going on, a little
rocky music in my in my ear,like, done. It didn't, like work
it out, like lifting weights andstuff, running up the stairs in
Philly. But anyways, kidney is
Unknown (08:37):
staying. It's there for good.
It's treated really well and andthat's one of the reasons why I
thought I had it when mydaughter was
JJ (08:47):
diagnosed with her brain. So how many, how many children do
you have? Yeah, tell
Natalie (08:52):
us about getting married and all that. Oh, yeah.
So,
Unknown (08:56):
so I met my husband because I dated his best friend
from kindergarten before I datedand married my husband and we're
all still really great friends.
We actually just saw each othera couple of weeks ago at a party
for my in laws 50th weddinganniversary. So anyway, lovely
wedding, I think, like sevenattendees on either side. It was
(09:16):
a beautiful celebration, and myhusband and I are just, I'm not.
He doesn't call me his bestfriend. He's like, No, it's
deeper than a best friend. ButI'm like, but I want a best
friend, so I'm calling you mybest friend, but we have a lot
in common. Really. Love tolisten to jam band music and
spend time up at my in lawscabin on the lake during the
(09:40):
summer. Really, I just couldn'task for a better partner in this
whole journey. And you know, hemarried me knowing that I have a
bum kidney and that we'd belooking at adoption as a way to
build our family, rather than mebeing able to carry a child and.
He was like, Why? Why would Iwant to have a child with anyone
(10:01):
else if it isn't you? And yes,that's the way we'll, we'll
build a family. And so we did.
We welcomed our daughter intoour family in 2008 and she is
just, I call it a sunshine withthe sky blue eyes. I love it.
It's a blind belt.
JJ (10:23):
Got it? Okay? So, so we're swimming. I mean, you're
swimming
Unknown (10:27):
along, like doing what it's supposed to
Natalie (10:30):
so let me ask you this.
I did. I didn't realize yourdaughter was adopted. And so,
number one, I always say thankyou to anyone who chooses
adoption, because there are somany children who need love and
care and that are out there. Andso if you have the ability to
adopt and it works for yourfamily, then, yeah, this is
this. You should do it. It'svery rewarding. So how old was?
(10:51):
Tell me you said she was eightwhen you adopted
Unknown (10:55):
her. Oh, I'm sorry, no, that's when she was diagnosed.
She we brought her home at fiveweeks old. Oh, she was a baby,
so we drove to the western sideof the state. We were there the
evening she was born. We got tohold her that night, and then,
with all of the legalproceedings and everything she
(11:15):
did, live away from us for aboutfour weeks, and we were able to
visit, but then we were fosterparents for six months. That's
how it works here in Wisconsin.
Yep, right. Then finalized inMay and okay, do you guys like
numbers? Sure. Okay. 29 I had myfirst kidney transplant. July 29
1993 we were able to bring ourdaughter, Layla, home. October
(11:39):
29 2008 we finalize theadoption. May 29 2009 like 29
is, is a number. For me, 29
Natalie (11:52):
is your number. I like that. Let me ask this. Did you
know if her biological familyhad a history of any where was
that information share? Becausethere's, there's something to be
said for knowing I'm just havingworked in the foster care system
for men and mental health for 25years. There's something to be
said for having awareness aboutwhat happened in utero. And is
(12:13):
this a child that was substanceexposed, like, is there a family
history? Because then you haveto really mentally plan for care
and so, and not just, I'mraising a child, I say that
respectfully,
Unknown (12:26):
yeah, yeah. Well, we actually have a I would call a
semi open adoption with herbirth parents. And so we did
receive a lot of information. Wemet them, they chose us as her
adoptive parents. And fromeverything that we know of them,
and some of the, you know,medical records that were
(12:46):
released, she was very, verywell taken care of. Oh, wow,
yeah. So this is great. Thisbrain tumor thing was like,
yeah, it was like a fluke. Imean, pretty much the doctor
said. And as soon as she wasdiagnosed, I first thought of
her birth mother and like, Iwant to let her know that this
isn't something genetic. Thedoctor said it's
Natalie (13:11):
bad luck. Wow. So she is.
JJ (13:15):
She's eight years old now.
Are you? I'm assuming you andyour husband. Are you guys
working? So this is kind of ayou're, you're feeling great,
good kidney. You're like, Hey,I'm
Unknown (13:24):
working at Harley Davidson at the time in events.
We love Harley Yes. So I got togo work Sturgis. I was working
Atlantic Bike Week, you know, Iwas around for the anniversaries
here in Milwaukee. I was, youknow, chugging along. And he's a
product development manager withan engineering background, and
she just kept having theseheadaches, just like headaches.
(13:47):
Why are she having that? She'sso she was in gymnastics, very
active, you know, very full oflife, and they had us start
tracking Well, is it foodallergies? Is it anxiety? Is it?
Whatever it is. And I finallypushed enough mama bear to say,
I'm not doing this anymore. Youare giving me imaging. And they
(14:10):
got me imaging. And I actually,my husband was out of town the
day she was diagnosed, and Icalled him and I said, well, the
neurologist won't see herbecause she's has a headache and
is throwing up. They want us togo to children's and have some
migraine meds given to her. AndI said, so I think that that's
what's going to happen. It's notlike I'm expecting a brain tumor
or anything. Click, hung up thephone. The Tech actually
(14:32):
accidentally left the curtainopen between the CT room where
we are were and then themonitor, and I have never seen a
brain tumor before. I've seen alot of insides, like through
kidney ultrasounds and stuff,but as soon as I saw the imaging
come across,
Natalie (14:52):
wow, wow. I'm assuming this, this really kind of
affects you guys. And. 1000different ways, and you
immediately, I mean, you alreadyhave your mama hat on. You've
been a mama to her for eightyears, but this is a different
level of planning and andwelcome to doctors visits and
(15:16):
all the things that come alongwith any type of, you know,
significant illness andprognosis and all the, all the
things, because it is kind ofscary, if you think about it,
you know, a tumor in your brain.
You're like, I kind of needthat. Like, yeah, yeah. You kind
of need a kidney,
Unknown (15:35):
yeah. But yeah, you got two of those. So, yeah, you
really need, you really need tobreathe. You need
Natalie (15:41):
the whole brain, mostly, yeah, so, so then, so at
this point, you know, how doeslife start to shift for you and
your husband? What are whatstarts to happen? Because you're
going into you, in my mind, youbecome the dual role of
caregiver. Starts to really showits face, I would assume, man,
(16:01):
now you're doing now you'rereally going above and beyond
what your average parent isgoing to do with traditional
follow ups and sick calls andall that kind of stuff. Yeah,
Unknown (16:11):
you know, I thought I had it all handled. I had it all
figured out. I've been doingthis since 1993 I know the
health system. I know thedoctors, I know, but if you're
listening, and you know thatfeeling when you're drowning and
everyone else's needs all of asudden and you can barely
breathe, that's what I became,and that's why I decided now to
(16:33):
walk alongside caregivers likeyour listeners, to discover,
like, how do we find relief whenwe're doing all of the
appointments, when we're doingthe regular school things, when
we're doing all the things, andwhen you can't actually get
away, like I just can't go toHawaii and sit on the beach. And
I want to help people, as wellas myself, show up present
(16:54):
instead of depleted all thetime, even when our caregiving
never stops. And so we think asparents, taking care of our kids
never stops. Yes, and like yousaid, Natalie, add this extra
layer on top. And how do you doit? And I didn't know how to do
it
Natalie (17:13):
when you were at the hospital. And if people are
watching video, you're gonna seeme. My mic is having issues. So
please excuse me on that I'mkeep trying. It keeps turning
down, which I feel like, JJ, hasit and and now, and I'm actually
going to pause because we needto take a break. But my mic is
fighting me right now, so Iapologize for that. If anybody's
(17:33):
seeing this happen, because I'mlike, oh, it's going down, but I
think JJ, secretly has
Unknown (17:38):
it on the lever. Well,
Natalie (17:40):
we'll be right back.
JJ, you can bring us back in allright,
Unknown (17:46):
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(18:09):
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JJ (18:21):
All right, everybody. We are back, and Jen has said, Wow,
this is a time where you're notexactly sure how you're supposed
to proceed, because her daughterhas been diagnosed with a brain
tumor eight years old. Life wasswimming along, and now she is
full force into care. So that'swhat I want to talk about. First
(18:42):
of all, tell me about what thedoctors are telling you at this
point. When you've got an eightyear old that you're in and she
has a brain tumor, tell me aboutwhat they're telling you and
what you're feeling.
Unknown (18:52):
I went into complete I'm a pretend Doctor mode when
we're in the actual diagnosis.
Week of the hospital, I was, youknow, doing all the things. I
was listening to all the doctorswho were attending all the
rounds. I wasn't really feelinguntil one day, the care team was
in the room, my my family was inthe room. I was standing on the
(19:16):
end of my daughter's bed, andeverything that I had been
pushing down in order tounderstand what was going on
started to, like, boil up, andit was about to erupt, and I was
about to, like, figuratively,throw up everything that was
inside of me in front of mysweet young thing, and then all
of A sudden, this calm justfilled the room. Came over me,
(19:41):
and a voice outside of myselfsaid, Who do you want to be? For
her, that was the first bigpause.
Natalie (19:52):
Do you? Are you a faithful person? Are you? Are
you a believer in God or becausethat doesn't matter, because for
me, I feel like if you're abeliever in. God, to me, that's
like God and the Holy Spiritjust being like, I got you boo,
and if you're not, that's okay.
I'm just wondering,
Unknown (20:07):
yeah, no, I do believe I have great faith. I'm very
spiritual. Also, you know,participated in the Catholic
church for a long time, but Ialso feel this just like one
wholeness of universe andhumanity. Yep, that I honor, and
I do believe that we all haveaccess to some of these. Yes,
(20:27):
you know divine moments that wecan experience. That's not the
first time I've had a divineexperience in the hospital.
Natalie (20:35):
Yeah, I will tell you, and for me, and it's really and
this is the thing, and it'sfunny how religion is so like,
you always want to be like, Isounded like a tiptoed around
it, and that's absolutelybecause I did, because you never
want to offend anyone. And foranyone who's listening, you may
say, I don't align with that,and that's okay, because the
(20:57):
thing is, is, for me, I think Idon't know how people personally
don't do it without some levelof faith or belief in something,
because it this is so beyond ourcontrol. All of this is beyond
our control. And how do we pulland how do we pull down? How do
we maintain hope? That's thething is, and you're talking
(21:19):
about, I believe in divineintervention, and whatever that
looks like, that divineintervention looks like for you
is how that looks like for you.
And
Unknown (21:27):
Natalie, that's one of the pauses you're speaking to,
one of the pauses that I sharewith people, which is, you know,
as we're getting to know ourcaregiving exhaustion and the
four different types that Ispeak about, I talk about the I
lost my identity pause, and sothat's actually tying into like
a spiritual pause, which is whatis beyond us, what what is
(21:52):
outside of ourselves, that helpssupport us and bring us hope.
What is my mission, vision,goal, what helps me stay
connected to my true north aswe're going through these
tribulations, trials andtribulations, you know?
Natalie (22:06):
So if you want to go over the four, I'm interested
now you caught my attention. I'mlike, oh, yeah, wait. I don't
want to wait till the end onthat one you're so is this, is
this kind of a self realizationmoment for you, that aha moment,
that where it's like you getthis sense of overwhelming, kind
of like it's going to be okay.
How do you want to approachthis? And how you approach this
is really going to impact youroverall wellness. Is kind of
(22:30):
what I truly saying
Unknown (22:34):
totally, but not on a straight line, right? Because
life doesn't keep us on astraight line. It throws us for
loops, and so I thought I hadit. I'm like, Oh yeah, that's
right, anytime I stray fromshowing up in the comfort and
love and warmth that I want tobe for her when she's in a place
of fear and uncertainty andstrange pokes by needles, you
(22:59):
know, like anytime I startfeeling that I move myself into
the warmth and love and comfortfor her, but also for me. Yeah.
So we had a pretty easy, easy goof it after that first diagnosis
and a shunt placement forhydrocephalus treatment. And
then two years later, the tumorchanged. And then so
Natalie (23:21):
was the tumor benign?
Was it like so you were able totreat it? Was it, did they know
what it was attributed to, orjust
Unknown (23:28):
they don't really know, I mean, and when it's when you
talk about a tumor in the brain,is it benign? Is it malignant?
Yeah, there are those that aremalignant glioblastoma. Those
that are type fours, those thatare aggressive and spread hers
is a low grade glioma. And sowhile it's not, quote, unquote,
you know, malignant because ofwhere it is and the precious,
(23:51):
you know, land that it will takeup in her brain, we do watch and
wait. We watch and wait withMRIs, and then when there is a
change or she starts to haveissues with her memory center,
or some of those other things,then we have an intervention
that we use, yeah. So it was theintervention after she had had
(24:12):
some chemo done and some otherinfusions that held it at bay
for a while. 2020, it changed.
It like, change, so so much thatwe had to have a partial tumor
exception resection scheduledfor her on New Year's Eve of
2020, and so here I am,immunosuppressed. My daughter's
going in for a six plus hourbrain tumor surgery. I'm going
(24:35):
to live in the hospital with herfor the next month, masked,
fearful, because there wasnothing to protect me is other
than a mask and hand washing andhaving no visitors and all those
things. But leading up to thattreatment, there were a lot of
behavioral and emotional thingsgoing on because of how the
tumor was affecting herpersonality, and that's when I
(24:56):
hit bottom. Yeah, that's when Ididn't know how to support her.
JJ (25:03):
During that time, you say you don't know how to support
her. Are you still working firstof all, or had you
Unknown (25:10):
so? Great question.
Okay, so right about the timewhen her tumor was changing, and
so she was diagnosed in 2015about 2016 we started seeing
some behavioral things show upafter her medical trauma, and
then I was laid off at Harley.
And here's another divineintervention. I already know how
it popped in my head. I didn't Ihadn't ever had a coaching
(25:33):
session with anyone. I was like,oh, maybe I'll try this life
coaching thing. So I met with apast co worker who was in the
professional development space,and within three months, I was
in a training program. It wasn'tit was, but it wasn't for my
career. It was for me. SelfRealization, self awareness,
boundary setting, how do I comeinto myself to help support me?
(25:57):
So I was having it all figuredout, right? And then the fall
before her big, big surgery in2020 I couldn't eat without
getting sick. I had so muchanxiety I would be in a fetal
position, I dropped down to 100pounds, like, I can't do this.
What is going on? Yeah. And thiswas after I had all those tools
(26:20):
we just talked about,
Natalie (26:22):
oh, yeah, yeah. Because here's the thing. I mean, it's,
it's, honestly, I was the sameway. I mean, I trained on, you
know, how to maintain anequilibrium, how to how to stay
in your really, your sweet spot,which is your home, like this
is, this is where my center is,and this is where I experience
happy and calm and joy and thatsort of thing. And I like, when
(26:43):
you're in that state of crisis,and it's an ebb and flow that
starts to go up and down. Youare living in a fight, flight or
freeze. And you are it's, it'svery hard to pull from, it can
be very hard to pull from what,you know, in the prefrontal here
in the brain, the front of thebrain, of like, I know I should
do this, but I'm back herethinking a tiger is chasing me
(27:06):
down. You know, Fifth Avenue,
Unknown (27:08):
our amygdala, our prefrontal this guy likes to run
the show.
Natalie (27:13):
Yeah, exactly. I love a little and hissy kitty that's
from high school and college. Sobecause the amygdala really does
run everything. It's it's youcan't get to the front of the
brain where reasoning andthinking occurs when you are
living in a state of crisis, andyour brain feels like you are
(27:35):
just fighting for your life. AndI think that's where I know Jen,
that when you talk about thepause, because I talk about take
a 92nd pause before you make adecision when you're dealing
with a child with behavioralissues, because it allows you
just to stop recenter and thenbe able to get going. But that's
we're not talking about thatnecessarily, but you're, you're
(27:57):
saying, I had to take somepauses.
Unknown (28:00):
Yeah, my body was saying, pause right now, or
you're not going to make it.
But at the same time, peoplewere saying to me, you're so
resilient, you're so strong. AndI'm like, do not see and maybe I
did too good of a job hiding it,right? But, like, I can't. I'm
sitting in my car in thedriveway after picking up
(28:21):
something from the pharmacy.
Like, I can't make myself go inmy front door. Yeah, but if
you're listening right now andyou're feeling exhausted like
that, like, remember your lovedone needs you present, not
suffering, and there's a hugedifference, and that's where
these pause practices can make adifference. When you are in the
throes of caregiving and youcan't get away because we always
say, Oh, I'll take care ofmyself when this resolves, or
(28:43):
I'll take care of myself whenthings slow down. No, take care
of yourself now, because that'sgoing to give you the
sustainable energy to fuel yourresilience, that resilience that
people said I had, that I didn'tfeel I had. Well now I have it,
and these pauses I've discoveredhelped me find relief in the
moment and at the same time,they helped me build my
(29:05):
sustainable prosilience. So whenpeople were saying I was
resilient, I was like, What areyou talking about? I got really
curious about it, and startedlooking up exhaustion, caregiver
fatigue, compassion fatigue, allof those things, and I ran
across prosilience, proactiveresilience, and it's developed
by an organizationalpsychologist for use in
(29:26):
organizations. And I was readingthis book, I'm like, holy cow,
she's been following me since Iwas 15, and I didn't know this
is how I've I've been doing itduring the ebbs and flows of
life. And so now I know one ofthe main building blocks of
resilience is centered in thosepauses. And when we center
ourselves in these pauses andpractice them regularly, they
(29:49):
help us build our resilience,and we can build upon the
different tools we have in ourtoolbox to access. Us our
resilience during challenge.
JJ (30:02):
So has this, like, need for information, has it hit you
during these six months? Like,are you using these tools, or
does this hit after the sixmonths that you're living in the
hospital, which it sounds likealso overlaps the covid? Oh
Unknown (30:16):
my gosh, it was Yeah, and thankfully, it was only a
month. But like, okay, my mystruggle with being present and
not suffering started, like sixmonths before, you know,
everything hit with covid. I'msorry, yeah, like a little
before and then after. And I wasdoing the pauses innately, but I
(30:39):
didn't know what I was doing. Sowhen people would ask me, like,
how are you doing this? I'd belike, I don't know. Just, I just
do it
Natalie (30:48):
over here, magic. It's just over here, being unicorn.
Unknown (30:52):
Like,
JJ (30:53):
I'm kind of curious about, you know, because I think about
this with my mom. I'm there, andI know Natalie probably thinks
about this with Jason, we'rethere. Tell me about what you
feel the difference is withbeing there with your daughter
versus being present with yourdaughter. Define, for me, kind
of what the difference is. Ifyou could tell the caregiver,
you can be there, or you couldbe present. Tell me about that,
Unknown (31:16):
sure. So I like to share be where your feet are so
like you're there, you'resitting next to their hospital
bed as they're coming out ofsurgery or whatever, and you're
holding their hand, but yourmind is spinning in the fear and
the what ifs and the what Ishould have dones and all of
those things. Being presentmeans having your feet on the
(31:37):
ground, holding their hand, andknowing that you're there in
love and you are right there inthe moment. And this doesn't
mean, like, if you're feelingfear, to push it aside or away,
but it's acknowledging it andnot letting it spiral past the
point of it, being able to helpyou. So like, maybe there's a
(31:59):
fear like, oh, there's this ishappening, and I'm not sure what
that machine's saying. So thenyou pause and you ask the nurse,
so you don't be like, Oh mygosh, that beeping means that
they're going into an AFib orthat, you know, no, like, be
present. Calm yourself is thefirst building block of
resilience. Calm yourself. Howdo you do that? Well, there are
(32:20):
several different ways we can dothat, and then this idea of the
four pauses we can take asexhausted caregivers in place.
There's the physical pause, themental pause, the emotional
pause and the spiritual pause.
And these are all learning tomanage your energy because human
resilience is fueled by energy.
(32:44):
So when we can manage our energyand find where the leaks are and
plug them and then fillourselves up, we're able to fill
our resilience, you know, fuelour resilience and decide what
strategy to use to meet thechallenge, decide which
resilience muscle which we haveseven of which resilience muscle
to engage in order to movethrough the challenge. What I
have learned in my work withcaregivers, being a caregiver,
(33:07):
being a patient, is that when wefocus first on fueling ourselves
through managing our personalenergy, we have the sustainable
strength to make it throughdifficult times. I'm
Natalie (33:22):
going to take a pause right there, because I want to
come back to that. And I lovehow we've gone completely
traditionally, off script of howwe do things. Does it really
matter? Because it's ourpodcast, and that makes it
exceptionally
JJ (33:36):
fun. Yeah, I'm getting my help right up front.
Natalie (33:39):
The Brazilians is so interesting in what you're
talking about. And I want to goa little bit deeper into those
four areas, because I thinkthese are things that you've
applied to both working andsupporting your daughter,
probably also supporting yourmarriage and making sure that
you're not currently divorcedbecause of the stress that comes
(33:59):
with this, and then alsotransitioning into a new type of
caregiving, and caregiving foryour parents, because I know
that we talked about going inthere, so I'm going to take a
break, and we'll be right back.
Unknown (34:10):
Care forward is a technology platform that
connects volunteers withseniors, the disabled and those
with chronic or complex healthconditions, offering support
like transportation, home visitsand more details
online@careforward.io
JJ (34:25):
Hey everybody, we are back here with Jen Fredericks. I love
when we get to come back from abreak, because I get to ask the
first question.
Natalie (34:32):
AJ never gets to talk.
I
JJ (34:33):
know so I do. Ned had mentioned I do want to talk
about you using these tools,because when this is about you.
I also want to talk about allthe things that are part of your
life. First, I want to ask aboutyour health and how you're
taking care of you during thistime. And then I know now we
probably want to jump into howyou're using these tools to take
(34:56):
care of your marriage, becausethat's incredibly important. So
tell me about you this health.
There of you first.
Unknown (35:01):
I'm great. I'm great. I actually just saw my transplant
nephrologist for my follow up acouple months ago, and all my
numbers are good, and I'm justkind of rolling along. I
probably should be taking bettercare of my physical self,
meaning, like, okay, let'sstrengthen some muscles. You
know, I'm 48 so, like, let'sstrengthen some muscles. Let's,
(35:22):
you know, get some cardiachealth going for you, you know,
get some So, but no, it's great.
And what I know for me and youguys and your listeners will
figure this out for themselves,which of those four energies you
really focus on that help fuelyou the most, and for me, that's
taking care of my spiritual andemotional energy, and then
(35:43):
allows me to know when I need todo more with my physical
Natalie (35:49):
so let me ask you, but you said before the break,
because right now, you're good,yeah, but a couple of years ago,
you were, you know, you were ahot mess, calm, and they could
Read your photo like, how not tosurvive caregiving. And Jen
Fredericks is all like, overthere waving in the picture, you
said you'd gotten down to 100pounds, which I'm sure your
(36:10):
brother in law was like, lady,yeah, take his kidneys. Not
gonna like this.
Unknown (36:17):
Well, here's my confession. Are you ready? I'm
ready. Ready. I went fromliterally punching walls in pure
frustration to being able tofind those pockets of peace and
and chaos like there are stillmarks on our walls. My office is
upstairs, marks on our wallsdownstairs where I kicked or hit
walls. So
Natalie (36:37):
what got you like, kind of, let's walk through that,
because here's the thing, thisis the and then I appreciate you
saying, Here's my confession,because this is true. There have
been so many times that I justwant to scream and I'd want to
hit something, because here'sthe thing, it's better to hit a
wall. It's what I always tell mykids that I work with. I'm like,
better hit a wall than it is tohit another person. So let's
start there. So that's the firststep, and then let's work on not
(36:59):
hitting walls, because thenyou're going to hurt yourself,
and it's really not the way toget rid of that energy is,
because I look at that as thisis energy that you're holding on
the inside, that is, is itcoming out in a very negative
way that does not serve youexactly?
Unknown (37:15):
Yeah, that's exactly what it was. It was me trying to
hold it all together and notacknowledging that I was having
those human feelings about thisreally difficult situation, and
trying to push through it,rather than honoring where I was
in the moment and saying, like,I need to go scream into a
(37:35):
pillow. I need to go get somefresh air. Yeah? So, I mean,
that's a pause screaming into apillow. That's a pause that can
help your physical, mental,emotional and spiritual energy,
right there. But I wasn't doingthat. I was letting it build,
build, build, build, build,pressing it down, pushing it
down, you know, pressure cookeruntil it would come out in a me
(37:57):
punching a wall and scaring thevegetas out of my nine year old
daughter because she's not seenMom act like that before.
Natalie (38:06):
Yeah. How is this affecting the same time where
you're not eating, becauseyou're getting sick every time
you eat, you've got this anxietythat is like, really exactly
what you said, a pressure cookerthat is just waiting to explode.
How is that affecting yourmarriage? What's your husband
saying to you, like, lady, ifyou've lost it, or do you need
to go get therapy, or what'sgoing on there?
Unknown (38:29):
I think he was terrified, but it's taken us
some time. We've always beenreally great communicators, but
it's taken us some time to beable to communicate in a moment
like that. We both like to avoidconfrontation, so we just kind
of wouldn't
Natalie (38:47):
talk about it clean, ignoring
Unknown (38:50):
what I found that's worked for us then over the
years is setting boundaries witheach other, being like, I can't
talk about this right now. Iwant to let you in, but I need
10 minutes, and then coming. Sothere's a pause, physical pause,
removing myself from the, youknow, letting the heated
(39:11):
discussion we've never reallyfought, but letting the heated
discussion simmer down a littlebit before we actually come back
and talk. We're very likeminded, so that really helps our
marriage, meaning that one, wedon't like confrontation, but
two, we've grown together tolearn how we can confront each
other in a loving way, withoutaccusing or pointing fingers or
(39:34):
it's like we're able to I alwayssay this with my clients, I'm
holding my hands up together,like, how can We hold that both
in the palm of our hands, sothat we can acknowledge and
honor it and yet move forwardtogether with it?
Natalie (39:48):
You know, I think this is probably one of the most
detailed, honest conversationsabout the impact on marriage
that we've had, in a veryspecific way, not to any of our
other guests that they're. Holdanything back. Yeah, but this
is, this is a vulnerable momentwhere you talk about as two
individuals who are trying tocare for a child, and the
overwhelmingness of thesituation and the lack of
(40:11):
control that you really don'thave, which is the hardest part,
I think, of caregiving,especially for someone who wants
just to make things right, andhow you guys are really able to
do that? Did you do any kind ofmarriage counseling? Did the did
the hospital recommend any kindof peer support groups or
counseling for you as parentswho are going through this super
(40:33):
traumatic event, I see youshaking your head, no, no.
Unknown (40:37):
I mean, it's about survival when you're in the
hospital, right? And then youget discharged. And then, and I
remember my mom saying this whenI'd be discharged from my kidney
transplants, you're kind oflike, how am I supposed to live
out in the real world with allthis? She used to go to the
grocery store and becomeparalyzed and not know what to
do, and so she would just leave.
I, you know, I would do the samething, like my daughter just had
(40:59):
a little brain surgeryyesterday. I'm taking her home
tomorrow. Are you freakingkidding me? What am I supposed
to do?
Natalie (41:13):
I can't even imagine how scary that would be. I mean,
it's one thing for you to put aband aid on some stuff. Another
thing for you to have, what Iwould like to call even that's
closed it's an open wound.
People
Unknown (41:25):
very open wound. They work. I
Natalie (41:29):
have, I am not remotely qualified for this crap. She
JJ (41:32):
just said that little brain surgery. And I just am like,
huh,
Unknown (41:38):
yeah, she'd have, like, you know, she might need to have
her, her shunt, revised. And sothat's like a, that's like a
quick in one day out the next.
She just had that done inFebruary, again, yeah, we were
in overnight, and then we bringher home. And you know, it's
that's when I pull on myconfidence, resilience muscle
(41:59):
that we talk about inresilience, because, like, I
know what I've been through.
She's had these little brainsurgeries a couple times now, so
I can find trust in myself andmy husband's knowledge. And
thankfully, we live eightminutes from the medical center,
(42:19):
yeah, but that's when you reallygot to lean into that, and
that's where the next questioncomes up. The question from the
first time she was admitted, whodo you want to be for her? Do
you want her coming home scaredbecause mom and dad are like, I
don't know what to do. No, like,you want her to be able to feel
calm and loved and comfortedbecause she's just had this
(42:42):
surgery where she's been undergeneral anesthesia and she's had
to sleep overnight in thehospital with all the beeping,
and all she wants to be is home,but she doesn't want to be in a
home where everyone else isscared, and it's like we talked
about before, when we're feelingexhausted and we're suffering,
that's when we need To take thatpause so that we can be present
(43:03):
for our loved one and be therein a way that helps their
healing doesn't add to their theillness and the concern and all
the fear they're feeling. Howold is your daughter now? She's
16 now,
JJ (43:15):
oh my god, I'm curious about relationship with her, at what
you see, what you anticipated arelationship to be like, Oh, I'm
gonna have this daughter. She'sgonna wear bows the rest of her
life. Or
Unknown (43:30):
how you she just dyed her hair blue. So, you
know, there's no blue or
JJ (43:36):
bows right now, but fantastic or, or where it is
now, like how it impacts you,what you thought this dream was
gonna be, and also how itimpacts her,
Unknown (43:45):
right? I mean, well, let's be serious. Any parent,
what you think it's gonna be isnot what it ends up. I had
lovely, lovely guidance from mysister, who has two boys in her
in their 20s now, who said, youknow, everyone paints it to be
unicorns and roses and rainbows,and it's not, and it's okay,
(44:06):
yeah, so I thank her for that.
So this is I believe that's adivine that God knew that Layla
soul and my soul and myhusband's soul needed to be
together, but couldn't find away to get it to us that way,
because I couldn't naturallycarry children. And so there's a
psalm, and it used to be hangingin her room when she was
(44:27):
younger. And I don't rememberexactly what it is, but the one
like I knew your story before,oh yes, you were born, yes. And
so we lean into that. We say wealways connected really well.
Like, we never had a hard timebonding or attachment wise. And
then when all of this came upfor her, we were like, Wow,
(44:50):
isn't it crazy? And an outsiderto say, Isn't it crazy that
you've had all of thisexperience? And like, I can fall
asleep in the house. Hospitalroom at the drop of a hat. Like,
I am so comfortable in thehospital. Like, isn't it crazy
that you can be there that wayfor her? Like, it was meant not
that I want her to have this orI want her to suffer, but like,
(45:11):
if she does, isn't it awonderful thing that she has me
and then my husband, who waswith me for my transplant the
second one, as well as kind ofshepherds for her during the
time.
Natalie (45:26):
You know it's, it's true, and children look up to
their parents for guidance andsupport. And when the adults are
not okay, the children are notokay. And, and that's just
through and, and I know we'regetting close to our time
actually, and so I want to makesure we have time for Sister
questions too. But I think it'svery clear that you're like,
(45:47):
This has been messy. People somessy learned. I've learned a
lot from it, and I love youknow, you've got some things in
here that you talk about, as faras like, you know your loved one
needs you present, notsuffering. I love how you said
that. You mentioned thatearlier, relief begins with the
pause, not the kind where youescape, but present pauses you
(46:09):
can take when holding someonehand in the hospital like you.
It's almost like CO occurring.
It's you can you can supportsomeone concurrently, support
yourself through interventions,and sometimes the strategies are
things that the person you'recaring for never even sees you
do
Unknown (46:28):
that. Yeah, that that three minutes that you take to
do some box breathing whilethey're talking to the doctor,
right? And and here's the otherthing, if you're not sure if
you're listening and you're notsure what type of exhaustion is
really draining you. That's whyI came up with a short quiz so
(46:49):
that you can figure out if youknow, if you're the physically
wiped out caregiver, thementally maxed out caregiver,
the emotionally overwhelmedcaregiver, or the I've lost
myself caregiver, and then onceyou figure that out, like,
there's a guide, there's like,12 plus strategies in there to
help you take pauses. Yeah,they're
Natalie (47:09):
going to be in the show notes people. So I'm going to
tell you right now, we aretotally I'm taking the quiz.
JJ (47:15):
I will tell you, you know, if I have any questions, I mean,
everybody can call me, I'll havethe address, like, all starred
and favorited on my computer.
Unknown (47:22):
And then from there, I really want people to know that
I created something that Iwished when I had, when I was in
the hospital, that I could go to24/7 and hear about these
pauses, hear about what otherpeople are going through, see
where people need to share andbe supported and also hear from,
(47:44):
you know, experts. And so I'vecreated carewell Circle, which
is a video centric onlinecommunity, because caregivers
need to see human faces,
Natalie (47:54):
yes, eyes and teeth, people, eyes and teeth. And if
Unknown (47:57):
you can't be across from someone having coffee like
the next best thing is thescreen. And I think some of that
came out of covid, you know,thankfully, but yeah, but yes,
find out where you are beingdrained, because when we know
that, then we can help you plugthe leak, and you can apply
these pauses wherever you are.
And then you can start to findrelief in the moment, as well as
(48:21):
start to build your sustainableresilience.
Natalie (48:25):
Oh, I'm loving this.
All right, Jay, so I'm going totell you I have all the helpful
links. I have it in my it'll bein our show notes, without
question, all the links to Jenand all this greatness. Because
I'm going to tell you right now,this is, this is good stuff, and
I actually can't wait to takethe crit. So excited. She's
going to take the quiz. We'llprobably take the quiz together.
And then be like, what's yourwhat's your dumpster fire look
(48:46):
like right now? And JJ will belike, Well, I am on zero. I'm on
empty in this area, in thisarea. And I'm like, Oh, good.
I'm on empty in this area. Andso then look at it and think,
what are the things that wecould practice to impact us and
understanding? And I'd say, Jen,you're probably the same well,
you would say the same thing.
(49:07):
You can be drained in anyparticular area, and it will
vary from day to day. I thinkthat's really important for
people to understand. It's isthat this goes back to
sympathetic and parasympatheticnervous system. I'm going to
talk about. I'm like, Oh, I loveall this stuff. I'm like, You
had me at parasympathetic andsympathetic, but it really what
that is, is fight, flight orfreeze. Where are you at? And I
(49:30):
think I've done a there is achart that I did with dr, dr
Laurie de saut, who really, youcan track this throughout the
day, and so those pauses allowyou to say, What am I feeling,
and where am I feeling it, andwhat do I need to recharge?
Those are things that I wouldencourage you to do. Is to you
(49:50):
could also track this and dothis. Think about how you feel
in the morning. Think about midat mid morning, lunch, mid
afternoon, dinner, and. Andbedtime, and you'll see how your
emotions fluctuate and howyou're fluctuating. And then you
can apply specific strategies tothat I don't want
Unknown (50:09):
to. And then even see, like, where your emotions are
at, and be like, Oh, wow, thatemotion really affected me
physically here. That's right,right? Because they're all
interconnected.
Natalie (50:19):
Oh, yeah. And what's the body telling you? Okay. JJ,
okay. Ben and I are gonna stoptalking about the mental health.
He's my
JJ (50:26):
BFF, back off. He's my BFF,
Unknown (50:29):
back off. Now, ladies, we
JJ (50:30):
can all okay, sorry, we, we, we're gonna have to take a
pause. Okay. So question, sofour areas that you talked
about, where do you findyourself? Which area do you see
yourself drained in the most?
And what is your? What is Your?
Your go to, go to, yeah,
Unknown (50:48):
it helps you. I would say, also, I pick up on other
people's energies a lot, and soemotional is the one that really
gets me the most. And so I wouldsay, I'm the, you know,
emotionally overwhelmedcaregiver, and so that's when I
take a pause, put a hand on mychest, my heart, and I say, you
(51:10):
know, I do. I don't have tocarry everyone else's emotions
and ask the question, Is thismine, or is this someone else's?
Natalie (51:17):
Oh, I love you. I love it. I love the question itself,
is this mine or is this someoneelse's? And that goes back to
what we were talking about withMel Robbins, about just
JJ (51:31):
Medicaid them,
Unknown (51:34):
and then this is theirs. I cannot fix that for
them. I can show up in calmpresence, once I know where I'm
at and they're responsible forfor how they show up.
Natalie (51:49):
Oh. Mel Robbins, you can have us all on your show. We
love your books. I also count12345, actually, it's 54321,
yep. Actually, 54321, that welove you, we we honestly love
you and but Okay, and here's myquestion, because I know I have
to wrap it up, because we couldkeep
Unknown (52:07):
talking forever.
Natalie (52:10):
What is the thing this is? This is not this doesn't
even feel like guilty pleasure.
But what is your favorite guiltypleasure at this point? What is
the thing that you do just foryourself, that you that really
helps you to reconnect, that youenjoy, that you're like, I'm
just doing this for me.
Unknown (52:25):
Yeah, okay, I'll go to Tarjay
Natalie (52:32):
universal Tarjay,
Unknown (52:35):
and I'll get a frozen Coca Cola and a bag of Cool
Ranch Doritos. Car in theparking lot. And I did this too
when covid, I had to do grocerypickups because I was masking
and everything. And I don't wantto, yeah, I do grocery pickups,
but then I'd like just run intothe caf, the cafe part, and I
get those two things for myself,and I go back and I sit there
(52:56):
and eat it in the car before Iwent home. And I still,
Natalie (52:59):
I'm going to tell you she is literally a sister,
because, I mean, this is, that'sthe kind of things. We're
foodies and, oh yeah,
Unknown (53:08):
and Doritos.
Natalie (53:11):
Like, that's our go to when we feel stressed. Like,
honestly, here lately in stress,M M's, like, M M's, and coke and
Unknown (53:20):
Doritos, regular, regular,
Natalie (53:22):
or peanut regular. I actually go just regular. And I
normally don't eat milkchocolate. I normally try to eat
dark chocolate. So in my mind,it's healthier, right? Whatever
it is, but, but m, M's are itcan go, it can swing ugly, real
fast, and so downhill. It's onehandful and then 10 handfuls
(53:42):
later, I'm like, I don't thinkthat's healthy. Well, here
Unknown (53:45):
I'll help you pause a little bit with that. How I eat
Skittles? You can eat M M's thisway too, blue ones at a time,
two brown ones at a time. Sojust like, match up the colors,
and it'll help slow down theconsumption. But you can still
like, oh, that needsexcessive. And I like that. I'm
like color coordination as well.
JJ (54:09):
Jen, thank you so much. I have learned so much. I'm going
to take that test.
Natalie (54:15):
I'll close this out and again, Thanks Jen, for loving on
us. We will make sure to haveall these things, the quiz about
what's draining you now, andcaregiver relief guide, and all
the information for Jen, you'regoing to want to connect with
her on all social mediaplatforms, because she is just
nuggets of wisdom. And here'sthe thing, if you're unsure,
just pause. That's my answer. Ifyou're unsure, just take a
(54:38):
pause. And so Jay, will youclose this out
JJ (54:41):
Absolutely, guys, until we confess again, we will see you
next time. Bye, bye.
Natalie (54:51):
Well, friends, that's a wrap on this week's confession
again. Thank you so much forlistening. But before you go,
please take a moment to leave usa. You and tell your friends
about the confessions podcast.
Don't forget to visit ourwebsite to sign up for our
newsletter. You'll also find thevideo recording of all of our
episodes on the confessionswebsite and our YouTube channel.
(55:12):
Don't worry, all the details areincluded in the show notes
below. We'll see you nextTuesday when we come together to
confess again, Till then, takecare of you. Okay, let's talk
disclaimers. You may besurprised to find out, but we
are not medical professionalsand are not providing any
(55:34):
medical advice. If you have anymedical questions, we recommend
that you talk with a medicalprofessional of your choice, as
always, my sisters and I, atConfessions of a reluctant
caregiver, have taken care inselecting speakers, but the
opinions of our speakers aretheirs alone. The views and
opinions stated in this podcastare solely those of the
(55:57):
contributors and not necessarilythose of our distributors or
hosting company. This podcast iscopyrighted and no part can be
reproduced without the expressedwritten consent of the
sisterhood of care LLC. Thankyou for listening to the
confessions of our reluctantcaregiver podcast.
Hey guys, it's your favorite sisters with the
Confessions of a reluctantcaregiver. Podcast. On the show,
you'll hear caregiversconfessing the good, the bad and
the completely unexpected.
You're guaranteed to relate, beinspired. Lead with helpful tips
and resources, and, of course,laugh. Now, let's get to today's
confession. I Jay,
JJ (00:33):
so I love like when we get started, because you're doing
mouth exercises.
Natalie (00:38):
You know, it also looks like one of those. Even Jen's
doing mouth exercises. Yeah,it's great. You know, I believe
mouth exercises make you happy,like we're getting ready to
start. It pushes your it makesyou smile, it makes you laugh,
it gets those happy endorphinsgoing in your body. And there's
nothing that makes me happierthan recording a podcast and
(01:01):
recorded a podcast with myfavorite oldest sister,
JJ (01:05):
yeah. Well, I just want to tell you that watching you do
mouth exercises actually makeslike you kind of look like. You
know, you know when you seethat, and not to say that, it's
like a horse, but Mr. Ed, whenhe laughs, his mouth is like you
can see. And then
Natalie (01:24):
I actually feel like a little bit like The Walking
Dead, who, if you'd like tosponsor us, there's no, I'm sure
there's caregiving in thewalking
Unknown (01:33):
I think caregivers.
Natalie (01:35):
I feel a little bit like the walking around. Sorry,
sorry, guys, we went off therails. Next morning.
JJ (01:44):
I got, I got a surprise for you. We do have a guest,
Natalie (01:48):
and she's not a zombie.
JJ (01:50):
She is kicking it, and she is, she's kicking butt. And I am
super I told her before we gotstarted, I'm actually super
excited today, because she hasyet another tool for me, I'm
very selfish, because anytimesomebody
Natalie (02:06):
cast for interventions for ourselves so that we can
also survive.
JJ (02:09):
Yes, see, there you go. And so let me, let me introduce you
to her, because I'm gettingstarted. I mean, I'm going
straight to tools. I don't careabout her story. I
Natalie (02:18):
want to know how she survives. That is so kind.
JJ (02:20):
I know, I know. So, okay, I'll listen to the story first.
Okay, today we have JenFredericks, and she's joining
us. She totally understandscaregiving, guys, it's as a
giver and as a receiver. Now,Jen has been living with chronic
kidney disease for over 30years, and for the past 10
years, she's been caregiving forher daughter through health
(02:43):
challenges, including a braintumor. Now she's also long
distance caring for her parents.
Jen says she could be sitting inher car some days, unable to
face walking through her ownfront door because she felt so
overwhelmed, while everyonearound her kept saying how
resilient she was. Don't youlove that? Like everybody's
like, Oh, you're doing a greatjob. You're so fantastic. I
Natalie (03:06):
didn't have to do anything to help. Thanks. Yeah,
JJ (03:09):
so. But she says that experience, that experience led
her, I think that experience ledher down a path to help others,
including the creation of thecaregiving relief. You don't
have to wait for God like thatname. Right off the bat, here's
spoiler alert. It all startswith a pause. I can't believe
(03:30):
you get it. So that's what I'mwaiting on. The way, Jen, we are
so excited to have you here withus
Unknown (03:35):
today. Thank you so much. I've been looking forward
to speaking with you guys.
Natalie (03:40):
Oh well, we're gonna have good fun. And I'm very
interested to hear about yourcaregiving experience. And
really, it's almost a little bitof a reverse, with you being a
recipient, you actually havingyour own kind of chronic illness
yourself and having a long termillness that you've been dealing
with and managing, and then theroles shifted, because I'm sure
(04:05):
you know you're the mama bear.
So anyway, I don't want to evenget further into that. I want
you to roll it out, and thenwe'll ask questions as we're
going along, because Moo, we'reinterrupting cows. So let's
start off with how we alwaysstart off. Give us a little bit
about your background. Tell uswhere you're from. Tell us from.
Tell us about family, of course,birth order we are always
interested in, but just kind ofbring us up to speed and get us
(04:27):
where, you know, tell us, tellus about life and up to care.
Unknown (04:33):
Yeah. So Well, I was born in Ohio, but I now live in
Wisconsin, and in between there,there were several moves as
well. I am the baby and theyoungest, the baby of how many,
just two. My sister's nine yearsolder than I am, and she
currently lives in the Midwestas well, but about, you know,
(04:54):
seven hours from me. So that'ssad, but I lived a lot in. In
Ohio on a farm. We moved toTexas with my dad's job, and
then I started feeling ill. Thenin middle school, found
ourselves in a small, small townin upstate New York, where the
doctor finally was like, Oh, Iknow what's wrong with you. It's
(05:16):
not chronic fatigue syndrome,it's kidney disease, and you
need a kidney transplant at 15?
Wow. Yeah, so it big, wow. Itwas, I mean, kind of like divine
intervention that we were inthis huge metropolitan area and
then moved to this small ruraltown, and that primary doctor,
my new pediatrician, is the onewho said, I know what this is,
(05:37):
and I was very blessed toreceive a kidney from my dad.
Oh, wow, yeah, that lasted 18years through all of the growing
up milestones, and then I gottired and it said, I'm out. And
I was lucky enough that I hadmarried into the right family,
because my husband's fraternaltwin brother was a match and
(06:00):
gave me a kidney in 2012
Natalie (06:04):
No kidding, yeah,
JJ (06:06):
this is a very these people are generous of their kidneys.
I'm not sure I could give you akid. That is fine. I mean, you
know what pass
Natalie (06:12):
out? Was there like a test on the sense of from your
from your brothers? I like thatyour your husband's it was your
husband's fraternal twinbrother, which I love, that he's
a twin, because twins run in ourfamily too, which is near and
dear to our heart. But did hecheck with you this a like, how
have you treated your dad'skidney? Which is, I mean, you
(06:33):
know, were you kind to it inyour 20s? Were you were you
respectful of the kidney?
Because if I'm going to go underthe slice of dicey, right, I
need you to make this one workfor a while. So
Unknown (06:43):
funny story, my dad is a connoisseur of Jack Daniels,
Natalie (06:50):
and so doesn't love little bourbon,
Unknown (06:53):
especially in a coke.
And so right after thetransplant with my father, back
in 93 I did go through an acutekidney rejection where I lived
in the hospital for about amonth, trying to get the kidney
back to liking my body. And mydad looks at the doctor and
said, Well, you just need to setup an IV of Jack Daniels,
because it's been without
Natalie (07:15):
for a while, saying, I know he was gonna say, could you
just pipe in Jack? Because yeah,it'll remember, it'll be, it'll
perk right up and be like, I'msorry. What dad, love your dad.
That's hilarious. This makes mehappy. Yeah, this is yes. I feel
like the name of this is gonnabe Jack. This episode is gonna
be a little Jack.
JJ (07:35):
I mean,
Unknown (07:36):
a little Jack can never hurt. Well, I mean, can? I can
for some people, but thankfullyso I do, I do treat my kidney
really well. We ended up namingit. I didn't name my first
kidney. But then a nurse askedme once here in Milwaukee, like,
Hey, have you named your kidneyfrom your brother? I'm like, Oh,
wow. He really likes sports andstuff, so maybe I'll name it
Giannis for the bucks player.
So,
Natalie (07:58):
oh, okay, that's I like that you named it after
football, because that seemslately appropriate from a person
who lives in Wisconsin.
Unknown (08:10):
Giannis is a basketball player, but I wouldn't have been
aware either, because I likemusic and theater and not so
much sports. But the only reasonI know is because of my brother
in law, so
Natalie (08:21):
he named it after a basketball player, all right?
Well, as long as we got thesports theme going on, a little
rocky music in my in my ear,like, done. It didn't, like work
it out, like lifting weights andstuff, running up the stairs in
Philly. But anyways, kidney is
Unknown (08:37):
staying. It's there for good.
It's treated really well and andthat's one of the reasons why I
thought I had it when mydaughter was
JJ (08:47):
diagnosed with her brain. So how many, how many children do
you have? Yeah, tell
Natalie (08:52):
us about getting married and all that. Oh, yeah.
So,
Unknown (08:56):
so I met my husband because I dated his best friend
from kindergarten before I datedand married my husband and we're
all still really great friends.
We actually just saw each othera couple of weeks ago at a party
for my in laws 50th weddinganniversary. So anyway, lovely
wedding, I think, like sevenattendees on either side. It was
(09:16):
a beautiful celebration, and myhusband and I are just, I'm not.
He doesn't call me his bestfriend. He's like, No, it's
deeper than a best friend. ButI'm like, but I want a best
friend, so I'm calling you mybest friend, but we have a lot
in common. Really. Love tolisten to jam band music and
spend time up at my in lawscabin on the lake during the
(09:40):
summer. Really, I just couldn'task for a better partner in this
whole journey. And you know, hemarried me knowing that I have a
bum kidney and that we'd belooking at adoption as a way to
build our family, rather than mebeing able to carry a child and.
He was like, Why? Why would Iwant to have a child with anyone
(10:01):
else if it isn't you? And yes,that's the way we'll, we'll
build a family. And so we did.
We welcomed our daughter intoour family in 2008 and she is
just, I call it a sunshine withthe sky blue eyes. I love it.
It's a blind belt.
JJ (10:23):
Got it? Okay? So, so we're swimming. I mean, you're
swimming
Unknown (10:27):
along, like doing what it's supposed to
Natalie (10:30):
so let me ask you this.
I did. I didn't realize yourdaughter was adopted. And so,
number one, I always say thankyou to anyone who chooses
adoption, because there are somany children who need love and
care and that are out there. Andso if you have the ability to
adopt and it works for yourfamily, then, yeah, this is
this. You should do it. It'svery rewarding. So how old was?
(10:51):
Tell me you said she was eightwhen you adopted
Unknown (10:55):
her. Oh, I'm sorry, no, that's when she was diagnosed.
She we brought her home at fiveweeks old. Oh, she was a baby,
so we drove to the western sideof the state. We were there the
evening she was born. We got tohold her that night, and then,
with all of the legalproceedings and everything she
(11:15):
did, live away from us for aboutfour weeks, and we were able to
visit, but then we were fosterparents for six months. That's
how it works here in Wisconsin.
Yep, right. Then finalized inMay and okay, do you guys like
numbers? Sure. Okay. 29 I had myfirst kidney transplant. July 29
1993 we were able to bring ourdaughter, Layla, home. October
(11:39):
29 2008 we finalize theadoption. May 29 2009 like 29
is, is a number. For me, 29
Natalie (11:52):
is your number. I like that. Let me ask this. Did you
know if her biological familyhad a history of any where was
that information share? Becausethere's, there's something to be
said for knowing I'm just havingworked in the foster care system
for men and mental health for 25years. There's something to be
said for having awareness aboutwhat happened in utero. And is
(12:13):
this a child that was substanceexposed, like, is there a family
history? Because then you haveto really mentally plan for care
and so, and not just, I'mraising a child, I say that
respectfully,
Unknown (12:26):
yeah, yeah. Well, we actually have a I would call a
semi open adoption with herbirth parents. And so we did
receive a lot of information. Wemet them, they chose us as her
adoptive parents. And fromeverything that we know of them,
and some of the, you know,medical records that were
(12:46):
released, she was very, verywell taken care of. Oh, wow,
yeah. So this is great. Thisbrain tumor thing was like,
yeah, it was like a fluke. Imean, pretty much the doctor
said. And as soon as she wasdiagnosed, I first thought of
her birth mother and like, Iwant to let her know that this
isn't something genetic. Thedoctor said it's
Natalie (13:11):
bad luck. Wow. So she is.
JJ (13:15):
She's eight years old now.
Are you? I'm assuming you andyour husband. Are you guys
working? So this is kind of ayou're, you're feeling great,
good kidney. You're like, Hey,I'm
Unknown (13:24):
working at Harley Davidson at the time in events.
We love Harley Yes. So I got togo work Sturgis. I was working
Atlantic Bike Week, you know, Iwas around for the anniversaries
here in Milwaukee. I was, youknow, chugging along. And he's a
product development manager withan engineering background, and
she just kept having theseheadaches, just like headaches.
(13:47):
Why are she having that? She'sso she was in gymnastics, very
active, you know, very full oflife, and they had us start
tracking Well, is it foodallergies? Is it anxiety? Is it?
Whatever it is. And I finallypushed enough mama bear to say,
I'm not doing this anymore. Youare giving me imaging. And they
(14:10):
got me imaging. And I actually,my husband was out of town the
day she was diagnosed, and Icalled him and I said, well, the
neurologist won't see herbecause she's has a headache and
is throwing up. They want us togo to children's and have some
migraine meds given to her. AndI said, so I think that that's
what's going to happen. It's notlike I'm expecting a brain tumor
or anything. Click, hung up thephone. The Tech actually
(14:32):
accidentally left the curtainopen between the CT room where
we are were and then themonitor, and I have never seen a
brain tumor before. I've seen alot of insides, like through
kidney ultrasounds and stuff,but as soon as I saw the imaging
come across,
Natalie (14:52):
wow, wow. I'm assuming this, this really kind of
affects you guys. And. 1000different ways, and you
immediately, I mean, you alreadyhave your mama hat on. You've
been a mama to her for eightyears, but this is a different
level of planning and andwelcome to doctors visits and
(15:16):
all the things that come alongwith any type of, you know,
significant illness andprognosis and all the, all the
things, because it is kind ofscary, if you think about it,
you know, a tumor in your brain.
You're like, I kind of needthat. Like, yeah, yeah. You kind
of need a kidney,
Unknown (15:35):
yeah. But yeah, you got two of those. So, yeah, you
really need, you really need tobreathe. You need
Natalie (15:41):
the whole brain, mostly, yeah, so, so then, so at
this point, you know, how doeslife start to shift for you and
your husband? What are whatstarts to happen? Because you're
going into you, in my mind, youbecome the dual role of
caregiver. Starts to really showits face, I would assume, man,
(16:01):
now you're doing now you'rereally going above and beyond
what your average parent isgoing to do with traditional
follow ups and sick calls andall that kind of stuff. Yeah,
Unknown (16:11):
you know, I thought I had it all handled. I had it all
figured out. I've been doingthis since 1993 I know the
health system. I know thedoctors, I know, but if you're
listening, and you know thatfeeling when you're drowning and
everyone else's needs all of asudden and you can barely
breathe, that's what I became,and that's why I decided now to
(16:33):
walk alongside caregivers likeyour listeners, to discover,
like, how do we find relief whenwe're doing all of the
appointments, when we're doingthe regular school things, when
we're doing all the things, andwhen you can't actually get
away, like I just can't go toHawaii and sit on the beach. And
I want to help people, as wellas myself, show up present
(16:54):
instead of depleted all thetime, even when our caregiving
never stops. And so we think asparents, taking care of our kids
never stops. Yes, and like yousaid, Natalie, add this extra
layer on top. And how do you doit? And I didn't know how to do
it
Natalie (17:13):
when you were at the hospital. And if people are
watching video, you're gonna seeme. My mic is having issues. So
please excuse me on that I'mkeep trying. It keeps turning
down, which I feel like, JJ, hasit and and now, and I'm actually
going to pause because we needto take a break. But my mic is
fighting me right now, so Iapologize for that. If anybody's
(17:33):
seeing this happen, because I'mlike, oh, it's going down, but I
think JJ, secretly has
Unknown (17:38):
it on the lever. Well,
Natalie (17:40):
we'll be right back.
JJ, you can bring us back in allright,
Unknown (17:46):
looking for care in all the wrong places. Try care
scout. Our care finder helps youlocate long term care providers
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(18:09):
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JJ (18:21):
All right, everybody. We are back, and Jen has said, Wow,
this is a time where you're notexactly sure how you're supposed
to proceed, because her daughterhas been diagnosed with a brain
tumor eight years old. Life wasswimming along, and now she is
full force into care. So that'swhat I want to talk about. First
(18:42):
of all, tell me about what thedoctors are telling you at this
point. When you've got an eightyear old that you're in and she
has a brain tumor, tell me aboutwhat they're telling you and
what you're feeling.
Unknown (18:52):
I went into complete I'm a pretend Doctor mode when
we're in the actual diagnosis.
Week of the hospital, I was, youknow, doing all the things. I
was listening to all the doctorswho were attending all the
rounds. I wasn't really feelinguntil one day, the care team was
in the room, my my family was inthe room. I was standing on the
(19:16):
end of my daughter's bed, andeverything that I had been
pushing down in order tounderstand what was going on
started to, like, boil up, andit was about to erupt, and I was
about to, like, figuratively,throw up everything that was
inside of me in front of mysweet young thing, and then all
of A sudden, this calm justfilled the room. Came over me,
(19:41):
and a voice outside of myselfsaid, Who do you want to be? For
her, that was the first bigpause.
Natalie (19:52):
Do you? Are you a faithful person? Are you? Are
you a believer in God or becausethat doesn't matter, because for
me, I feel like if you're abeliever in. God, to me, that's
like God and the Holy Spiritjust being like, I got you boo,
and if you're not, that's okay.
I'm just wondering,
Unknown (20:07):
yeah, no, I do believe I have great faith. I'm very
spiritual. Also, you know,participated in the Catholic
church for a long time, but Ialso feel this just like one
wholeness of universe andhumanity. Yep, that I honor, and
I do believe that we all haveaccess to some of these. Yes,
(20:27):
you know divine moments that wecan experience. That's not the
first time I've had a divineexperience in the hospital.
Natalie (20:35):
Yeah, I will tell you, and for me, and it's really and
this is the thing, and it'sfunny how religion is so like,
you always want to be like, Isounded like a tiptoed around
it, and that's absolutelybecause I did, because you never
want to offend anyone. And foranyone who's listening, you may
say, I don't align with that,and that's okay, because the
(20:57):
thing is, is, for me, I think Idon't know how people personally
don't do it without some levelof faith or belief in something,
because it this is so beyond ourcontrol. All of this is beyond
our control. And how do we pulland how do we pull down? How do
we maintain hope? That's thething is, and you're talking
(21:19):
about, I believe in divineintervention, and whatever that
looks like, that divineintervention looks like for you
is how that looks like for you.
And
Unknown (21:27):
Natalie, that's one of the pauses you're speaking to,
one of the pauses that I sharewith people, which is, you know,
as we're getting to know ourcaregiving exhaustion and the
four different types that Ispeak about, I talk about the I
lost my identity pause, and sothat's actually tying into like
a spiritual pause, which is whatis beyond us, what what is
(21:52):
outside of ourselves, that helpssupport us and bring us hope.
What is my mission, vision,goal, what helps me stay
connected to my true north aswe're going through these
tribulations, trials andtribulations, you know?
Natalie (22:06):
So if you want to go over the four, I'm interested
now you caught my attention. I'mlike, oh, yeah, wait. I don't
want to wait till the end onthat one you're so is this, is
this kind of a self realizationmoment for you, that aha moment,
that where it's like you getthis sense of overwhelming, kind
of like it's going to be okay.
How do you want to approachthis? And how you approach this
is really going to impact youroverall wellness. Is kind of
(22:30):
what I truly saying
Unknown (22:34):
totally, but not on a straight line, right? Because
life doesn't keep us on astraight line. It throws us for
loops, and so I thought I hadit. I'm like, Oh yeah, that's
right, anytime I stray fromshowing up in the comfort and
love and warmth that I want tobe for her when she's in a place
of fear and uncertainty andstrange pokes by needles, you
(22:59):
know, like anytime I startfeeling that I move myself into
the warmth and love and comfortfor her, but also for me. Yeah.
So we had a pretty easy, easy goof it after that first diagnosis
and a shunt placement forhydrocephalus treatment. And
then two years later, the tumorchanged. And then so
Natalie (23:21):
was the tumor benign?
Was it like so you were able totreat it? Was it, did they know
what it was attributed to, orjust
Unknown (23:28):
they don't really know, I mean, and when it's when you
talk about a tumor in the brain,is it benign? Is it malignant?
Yeah, there are those that aremalignant glioblastoma. Those
that are type fours, those thatare aggressive and spread hers
is a low grade glioma. And sowhile it's not, quote, unquote,
you know, malignant because ofwhere it is and the precious,
(23:51):
you know, land that it will takeup in her brain, we do watch and
wait. We watch and wait withMRIs, and then when there is a
change or she starts to haveissues with her memory center,
or some of those other things,then we have an intervention
that we use, yeah. So it was theintervention after she had had
(24:12):
some chemo done and some otherinfusions that held it at bay
for a while. 2020, it changed.
It like, change, so so much thatwe had to have a partial tumor
exception resection scheduledfor her on New Year's Eve of
2020, and so here I am,immunosuppressed. My daughter's
going in for a six plus hourbrain tumor surgery. I'm going
(24:35):
to live in the hospital with herfor the next month, masked,
fearful, because there wasnothing to protect me is other
than a mask and hand washing andhaving no visitors and all those
things. But leading up to thattreatment, there were a lot of
behavioral and emotional thingsgoing on because of how the
tumor was affecting herpersonality, and that's when I
(24:56):
hit bottom. Yeah, that's when Ididn't know how to support her.
JJ (25:03):
During that time, you say you don't know how to support
her. Are you still working firstof all, or had you
Unknown (25:10):
so? Great question.
Okay, so right about the timewhen her tumor was changing, and
so she was diagnosed in 2015about 2016 we started seeing
some behavioral things show upafter her medical trauma, and
then I was laid off at Harley.
And here's another divineintervention. I already know how
it popped in my head. I didn't Ihadn't ever had a coaching
(25:33):
session with anyone. I was like,oh, maybe I'll try this life
coaching thing. So I met with apast co worker who was in the
professional development space,and within three months, I was
in a training program. It wasn'tit was, but it wasn't for my
career. It was for me. SelfRealization, self awareness,
boundary setting, how do I comeinto myself to help support me?
(25:57):
So I was having it all figuredout, right? And then the fall
before her big, big surgery in2020 I couldn't eat without
getting sick. I had so muchanxiety I would be in a fetal
position, I dropped down to 100pounds, like, I can't do this.
What is going on? Yeah. And thiswas after I had all those tools
(26:20):
we just talked about,
Natalie (26:22):
oh, yeah, yeah. Because here's the thing. I mean, it's,
it's, honestly, I was the sameway. I mean, I trained on, you
know, how to maintain anequilibrium, how to how to stay
in your really, your sweet spot,which is your home, like this
is, this is where my center is,and this is where I experience
happy and calm and joy and thatsort of thing. And I like, when
(26:43):
you're in that state of crisis,and it's an ebb and flow that
starts to go up and down. Youare living in a fight, flight or
freeze. And you are it's, it'svery hard to pull from, it can
be very hard to pull from what,you know, in the prefrontal here
in the brain, the front of thebrain, of like, I know I should
do this, but I'm back herethinking a tiger is chasing me
(27:06):
down. You know, Fifth Avenue,
Unknown (27:08):
our amygdala, our prefrontal this guy likes to run
the show.
Natalie (27:13):
Yeah, exactly. I love a little and hissy kitty that's
from high school and college. Sobecause the amygdala really does
run everything. It's it's youcan't get to the front of the
brain where reasoning andthinking occurs when you are
living in a state of crisis, andyour brain feels like you are
(27:35):
just fighting for your life. AndI think that's where I know Jen,
that when you talk about thepause, because I talk about take
a 92nd pause before you make adecision when you're dealing
with a child with behavioralissues, because it allows you
just to stop recenter and thenbe able to get going. But that's
we're not talking about thatnecessarily, but you're, you're
(27:57):
saying, I had to take somepauses.
Unknown (28:00):
Yeah, my body was saying, pause right now, or
you're not going to make it.
But at the same time, peoplewere saying to me, you're so
resilient, you're so strong. AndI'm like, do not see and maybe I
did too good of a job hiding it,right? But, like, I can't. I'm
sitting in my car in thedriveway after picking up
(28:21):
something from the pharmacy.
Like, I can't make myself go inmy front door. Yeah, but if
you're listening right now andyou're feeling exhausted like
that, like, remember your lovedone needs you present, not
suffering, and there's a hugedifference, and that's where
these pause practices can make adifference. When you are in the
throes of caregiving and youcan't get away because we always
say, Oh, I'll take care ofmyself when this resolves, or
(28:43):
I'll take care of myself whenthings slow down. No, take care
of yourself now, because that'sgoing to give you the
sustainable energy to fuel yourresilience, that resilience that
people said I had, that I didn'tfeel I had. Well now I have it,
and these pauses I've discoveredhelped me find relief in the
moment and at the same time,they helped me build my
(29:05):
sustainable prosilience. So whenpeople were saying I was
resilient, I was like, What areyou talking about? I got really
curious about it, and startedlooking up exhaustion, caregiver
fatigue, compassion fatigue, allof those things, and I ran
across prosilience, proactiveresilience, and it's developed
by an organizationalpsychologist for use in
(29:26):
organizations. And I was readingthis book, I'm like, holy cow,
she's been following me since Iwas 15, and I didn't know this
is how I've I've been doing itduring the ebbs and flows of
life. And so now I know one ofthe main building blocks of
resilience is centered in thosepauses. And when we center
ourselves in these pauses andpractice them regularly, they
(29:49):
help us build our resilience,and we can build upon the
different tools we have in ourtoolbox to access. Us our
resilience during challenge.
JJ (30:02):
So has this, like, need for information, has it hit you
during these six months? Like,are you using these tools, or
does this hit after the sixmonths that you're living in the
hospital, which it sounds likealso overlaps the covid? Oh
Unknown (30:16):
my gosh, it was Yeah, and thankfully, it was only a
month. But like, okay, my mystruggle with being present and
not suffering started, like sixmonths before, you know,
everything hit with covid. I'msorry, yeah, like a little
before and then after. And I wasdoing the pauses innately, but I
(30:39):
didn't know what I was doing. Sowhen people would ask me, like,
how are you doing this? I'd belike, I don't know. Just, I just
do it
Natalie (30:48):
over here, magic. It's just over here, being unicorn.
Unknown (30:52):
Like,
JJ (30:53):
I'm kind of curious about, you know, because I think about
this with my mom. I'm there, andI know Natalie probably thinks
about this with Jason, we'rethere. Tell me about what you
feel the difference is withbeing there with your daughter
versus being present with yourdaughter. Define, for me, kind
of what the difference is. Ifyou could tell the caregiver,
you can be there, or you couldbe present. Tell me about that,
Unknown (31:16):
sure. So I like to share be where your feet are so
like you're there, you'resitting next to their hospital
bed as they're coming out ofsurgery or whatever, and you're
holding their hand, but yourmind is spinning in the fear and
the what ifs and the what Ishould have dones and all of
those things. Being presentmeans having your feet on the
(31:37):
ground, holding their hand, andknowing that you're there in
love and you are right there inthe moment. And this doesn't
mean, like, if you're feelingfear, to push it aside or away,
but it's acknowledging it andnot letting it spiral past the
point of it, being able to helpyou. So like, maybe there's a
(31:59):
fear like, oh, there's this ishappening, and I'm not sure what
that machine's saying. So thenyou pause and you ask the nurse,
so you don't be like, Oh mygosh, that beeping means that
they're going into an AFib orthat, you know, no, like, be
present. Calm yourself is thefirst building block of
resilience. Calm yourself. Howdo you do that? Well, there are
(32:20):
several different ways we can dothat, and then this idea of the
four pauses we can take asexhausted caregivers in place.
There's the physical pause, themental pause, the emotional
pause and the spiritual pause.
And these are all learning tomanage your energy because human
resilience is fueled by energy.
(32:44):
So when we can manage our energyand find where the leaks are and
plug them and then fillourselves up, we're able to fill
our resilience, you know, fuelour resilience and decide what
strategy to use to meet thechallenge, decide which
resilience muscle which we haveseven of which resilience muscle
to engage in order to movethrough the challenge. What I
have learned in my work withcaregivers, being a caregiver,
(33:07):
being a patient, is that when wefocus first on fueling ourselves
through managing our personalenergy, we have the sustainable
strength to make it throughdifficult times. I'm
Natalie (33:22):
going to take a pause right there, because I want to
come back to that. And I lovehow we've gone completely
traditionally, off script of howwe do things. Does it really
matter? Because it's ourpodcast, and that makes it
exceptionally
JJ (33:36):
fun. Yeah, I'm getting my help right up front.
Natalie (33:39):
The Brazilians is so interesting in what you're
talking about. And I want to goa little bit deeper into those
four areas, because I thinkthese are things that you've
applied to both working andsupporting your daughter,
probably also supporting yourmarriage and making sure that
you're not currently divorcedbecause of the stress that comes
(33:59):
with this, and then alsotransitioning into a new type of
caregiving, and caregiving foryour parents, because I know
that we talked about going inthere, so I'm going to take a
break, and we'll be right back.
Unknown (34:10):
Care forward is a technology platform that
connects volunteers withseniors, the disabled and those
with chronic or complex healthconditions, offering support
like transportation, home visitsand more details
online@careforward.io
JJ (34:25):
Hey everybody, we are back here with Jen Fredericks. I love
when we get to come back from abreak, because I get to ask the
first question.
Natalie (34:32):
AJ never gets to talk.
I
JJ (34:33):
know so I do. Ned had mentioned I do want to talk
about you using these tools,because when this is about you.
I also want to talk about allthe things that are part of your
life. First, I want to ask aboutyour health and how you're
taking care of you during thistime. And then I know now we
probably want to jump into howyou're using these tools to take
(34:56):
care of your marriage, becausethat's incredibly important. So
tell me about you this health.
There of you first.
Unknown (35:01):
I'm great. I'm great. I actually just saw my transplant
nephrologist for my follow up acouple months ago, and all my
numbers are good, and I'm justkind of rolling along. I
probably should be taking bettercare of my physical self,
meaning, like, okay, let'sstrengthen some muscles. You
know, I'm 48 so, like, let'sstrengthen some muscles. Let's,
(35:22):
you know, get some cardiachealth going for you, you know,
get some So, but no, it's great.
And what I know for me and youguys and your listeners will
figure this out for themselves,which of those four energies you
really focus on that help fuelyou the most, and for me, that's
taking care of my spiritual andemotional energy, and then
(35:43):
allows me to know when I need todo more with my physical
Natalie (35:49):
so let me ask you, but you said before the break,
because right now, you're good,yeah, but a couple of years ago,
you were, you know, you were ahot mess, calm, and they could
Read your photo like, how not tosurvive caregiving. And Jen
Fredericks is all like, overthere waving in the picture, you
said you'd gotten down to 100pounds, which I'm sure your
(36:10):
brother in law was like, lady,yeah, take his kidneys. Not
gonna like this.
Unknown (36:17):
Well, here's my confession. Are you ready? I'm
ready. Ready. I went fromliterally punching walls in pure
frustration to being able tofind those pockets of peace and
and chaos like there are stillmarks on our walls. My office is
upstairs, marks on our wallsdownstairs where I kicked or hit
walls. So
Natalie (36:37):
what got you like, kind of, let's walk through that,
because here's the thing, thisis the and then I appreciate you
saying, Here's my confession,because this is true. There have
been so many times that I justwant to scream and I'd want to
hit something, because here'sthe thing, it's better to hit a
wall. It's what I always tell mykids that I work with. I'm like,
better hit a wall than it is tohit another person. So let's
start there. So that's the firststep, and then let's work on not
(36:59):
hitting walls, because thenyou're going to hurt yourself,
and it's really not the way toget rid of that energy is,
because I look at that as thisis energy that you're holding on
the inside, that is, is itcoming out in a very negative
way that does not serve youexactly?
Unknown (37:15):
Yeah, that's exactly what it was. It was me trying to
hold it all together and notacknowledging that I was having
those human feelings about thisreally difficult situation, and
trying to push through it,rather than honoring where I was
in the moment and saying, like,I need to go scream into a
(37:35):
pillow. I need to go get somefresh air. Yeah? So, I mean,
that's a pause screaming into apillow. That's a pause that can
help your physical, mental,emotional and spiritual energy,
right there. But I wasn't doingthat. I was letting it build,
build, build, build, build,pressing it down, pushing it
down, you know, pressure cookeruntil it would come out in a me
(37:57):
punching a wall and scaring thevegetas out of my nine year old
daughter because she's not seenMom act like that before.
Natalie (38:06):
Yeah. How is this affecting the same time where
you're not eating, becauseyou're getting sick every time
you eat, you've got this anxietythat is like, really exactly
what you said, a pressure cookerthat is just waiting to explode.
How is that affecting yourmarriage? What's your husband
saying to you, like, lady, ifyou've lost it, or do you need
to go get therapy, or what'sgoing on there?
Unknown (38:29):
I think he was terrified, but it's taken us
some time. We've always beenreally great communicators, but
it's taken us some time to beable to communicate in a moment
like that. We both like to avoidconfrontation, so we just kind
of wouldn't
Natalie (38:47):
talk about it clean, ignoring
Unknown (38:50):
what I found that's worked for us then over the
years is setting boundaries witheach other, being like, I can't
talk about this right now. Iwant to let you in, but I need
10 minutes, and then coming. Sothere's a pause, physical pause,
removing myself from the, youknow, letting the heated
(39:11):
discussion we've never reallyfought, but letting the heated
discussion simmer down a littlebit before we actually come back
and talk. We're very likeminded, so that really helps our
marriage, meaning that one, wedon't like confrontation, but
two, we've grown together tolearn how we can confront each
other in a loving way, withoutaccusing or pointing fingers or
(39:34):
it's like we're able to I alwayssay this with my clients, I'm
holding my hands up together,like, how can We hold that both
in the palm of our hands, sothat we can acknowledge and
honor it and yet move forwardtogether with it?
Natalie (39:48):
You know, I think this is probably one of the most
detailed, honest conversationsabout the impact on marriage
that we've had, in a veryspecific way, not to any of our
other guests that they're. Holdanything back. Yeah, but this
is, this is a vulnerable momentwhere you talk about as two
individuals who are trying tocare for a child, and the
overwhelmingness of thesituation and the lack of
(40:11):
control that you really don'thave, which is the hardest part,
I think, of caregiving,especially for someone who wants
just to make things right, andhow you guys are really able to
do that? Did you do any kind ofmarriage counseling? Did the did
the hospital recommend any kindof peer support groups or
counseling for you as parentswho are going through this super
(40:33):
traumatic event, I see youshaking your head, no, no.
Unknown (40:37):
I mean, it's about survival when you're in the
hospital, right? And then youget discharged. And then, and I
remember my mom saying this whenI'd be discharged from my kidney
transplants, you're kind oflike, how am I supposed to live
out in the real world with allthis? She used to go to the
grocery store and becomeparalyzed and not know what to
do, and so she would just leave.
I, you know, I would do the samething, like my daughter just had
(40:59):
a little brain surgeryyesterday. I'm taking her home
tomorrow. Are you freakingkidding me? What am I supposed
to do?
Natalie (41:13):
I can't even imagine how scary that would be. I mean,
it's one thing for you to put aband aid on some stuff. Another
thing for you to have, what Iwould like to call even that's
closed it's an open wound.
People
Unknown (41:25):
very open wound. They work. I
Natalie (41:29):
have, I am not remotely qualified for this crap. She
JJ (41:32):
just said that little brain surgery. And I just am like,
huh,
Unknown (41:38):
yeah, she'd have, like, you know, she might need to have
her, her shunt, revised. And sothat's like a, that's like a
quick in one day out the next.
She just had that done inFebruary, again, yeah, we were
in overnight, and then we bringher home. And you know, it's
that's when I pull on myconfidence, resilience muscle
(41:59):
that we talk about inresilience, because, like, I
know what I've been through.
She's had these little brainsurgeries a couple times now, so
I can find trust in myself andmy husband's knowledge. And
thankfully, we live eightminutes from the medical center,
(42:19):
yeah, but that's when you reallygot to lean into that, and
that's where the next questioncomes up. The question from the
first time she was admitted, whodo you want to be for her? Do
you want her coming home scaredbecause mom and dad are like, I
don't know what to do. No, like,you want her to be able to feel
calm and loved and comfortedbecause she's just had this
(42:42):
surgery where she's been undergeneral anesthesia and she's had
to sleep overnight in thehospital with all the beeping,
and all she wants to be is home,but she doesn't want to be in a
home where everyone else isscared, and it's like we talked
about before, when we're feelingexhausted and we're suffering,
that's when we need To take thatpause so that we can be present
(43:03):
for our loved one and be therein a way that helps their
healing doesn't add to their theillness and the concern and all
the fear they're feeling. Howold is your daughter now? She's
16 now,
JJ (43:15):
oh my god, I'm curious about relationship with her, at what
you see, what you anticipated arelationship to be like, Oh, I'm
gonna have this daughter. She'sgonna wear bows the rest of her
life. Or
Unknown (43:30):
how you she just dyed her hair blue. So, you
know, there's no blue or
JJ (43:36):
bows right now, but fantastic or, or where it is
now, like how it impacts you,what you thought this dream was
gonna be, and also how itimpacts her,
Unknown (43:45):
right? I mean, well, let's be serious. Any parent,
what you think it's gonna be isnot what it ends up. I had
lovely, lovely guidance from mysister, who has two boys in her
in their 20s now, who said, youknow, everyone paints it to be
unicorns and roses and rainbows,and it's not, and it's okay,
(44:06):
yeah, so I thank her for that.
So this is I believe that's adivine that God knew that Layla
soul and my soul and myhusband's soul needed to be
together, but couldn't find away to get it to us that way,
because I couldn't naturallycarry children. And so there's a
psalm, and it used to be hangingin her room when she was
(44:27):
younger. And I don't rememberexactly what it is, but the one
like I knew your story before,oh yes, you were born, yes. And
so we lean into that. We say wealways connected really well.
Like, we never had a hard timebonding or attachment wise. And
then when all of this came upfor her, we were like, Wow,
(44:50):
isn't it crazy? And an outsiderto say, Isn't it crazy that
you've had all of thisexperience? And like, I can fall
asleep in the house. Hospitalroom at the drop of a hat. Like,
I am so comfortable in thehospital. Like, isn't it crazy
that you can be there that wayfor her? Like, it was meant not
that I want her to have this orI want her to suffer, but like,
(45:11):
if she does, isn't it awonderful thing that she has me
and then my husband, who waswith me for my transplant the
second one, as well as kind ofshepherds for her during the
time.
Natalie (45:26):
You know it's, it's true, and children look up to
their parents for guidance andsupport. And when the adults are
not okay, the children are notokay. And, and that's just
through and, and I know we'regetting close to our time
actually, and so I want to makesure we have time for Sister
questions too. But I think it'svery clear that you're like,
(45:47):
This has been messy. People somessy learned. I've learned a
lot from it, and I love youknow, you've got some things in
here that you talk about, as faras like, you know your loved one
needs you present, notsuffering. I love how you said
that. You mentioned thatearlier, relief begins with the
pause, not the kind where youescape, but present pauses you
(46:09):
can take when holding someonehand in the hospital like you.
It's almost like CO occurring.
It's you can you can supportsomeone concurrently, support
yourself through interventions,and sometimes the strategies are
things that the person you'recaring for never even sees you
do
Unknown (46:28):
that. Yeah, that that three minutes that you take to
do some box breathing whilethey're talking to the doctor,
right? And and here's the otherthing, if you're not sure if
you're listening and you're notsure what type of exhaustion is
really draining you. That's whyI came up with a short quiz so
(46:49):
that you can figure out if youknow, if you're the physically
wiped out caregiver, thementally maxed out caregiver,
the emotionally overwhelmedcaregiver, or the I've lost
myself caregiver, and then onceyou figure that out, like,
there's a guide, there's like,12 plus strategies in there to
help you take pauses. Yeah,they're
Natalie (47:09):
going to be in the show notes people. So I'm going to
tell you right now, we aretotally I'm taking the quiz.
JJ (47:15):
I will tell you, you know, if I have any questions, I mean,
everybody can call me, I'll havethe address, like, all starred
and favorited on my computer.
Unknown (47:22):
And then from there, I really want people to know that
I created something that Iwished when I had, when I was in
the hospital, that I could go to24/7 and hear about these
pauses, hear about what otherpeople are going through, see
where people need to share andbe supported and also hear from,
(47:44):
you know, experts. And so I'vecreated carewell Circle, which
is a video centric onlinecommunity, because caregivers
need to see human faces,
Natalie (47:54):
yes, eyes and teeth, people, eyes and teeth. And if
Unknown (47:57):
you can't be across from someone having coffee like
the next best thing is thescreen. And I think some of that
came out of covid, you know,thankfully, but yeah, but yes,
find out where you are beingdrained, because when we know
that, then we can help you plugthe leak, and you can apply
these pauses wherever you are.
And then you can start to findrelief in the moment, as well as
(48:21):
start to build your sustainableresilience.
Natalie (48:25):
Oh, I'm loving this.
All right, Jay, so I'm going totell you I have all the helpful
links. I have it in my it'll bein our show notes, without
question, all the links to Jenand all this greatness. Because
I'm going to tell you right now,this is, this is good stuff, and
I actually can't wait to takethe crit. So excited. She's
going to take the quiz. We'llprobably take the quiz together.
And then be like, what's yourwhat's your dumpster fire look
(48:46):
like right now? And JJ will belike, Well, I am on zero. I'm on
empty in this area, in thisarea. And I'm like, Oh, good.
I'm on empty in this area. Andso then look at it and think,
what are the things that wecould practice to impact us and
understanding? And I'd say, Jen,you're probably the same well,
you would say the same thing.
(49:07):
You can be drained in anyparticular area, and it will
vary from day to day. I thinkthat's really important for
people to understand. It's isthat this goes back to
sympathetic and parasympatheticnervous system. I'm going to
talk about. I'm like, Oh, I loveall this stuff. I'm like, You
had me at parasympathetic andsympathetic, but it really what
that is, is fight, flight orfreeze. Where are you at? And I
(49:30):
think I've done a there is achart that I did with dr, dr
Laurie de saut, who really, youcan track this throughout the
day, and so those pauses allowyou to say, What am I feeling,
and where am I feeling it, andwhat do I need to recharge?
Those are things that I wouldencourage you to do. Is to you
(49:50):
could also track this and dothis. Think about how you feel
in the morning. Think about midat mid morning, lunch, mid
afternoon, dinner, and. Andbedtime, and you'll see how your
emotions fluctuate and howyou're fluctuating. And then you
can apply specific strategies tothat I don't want
Unknown (50:09):
to. And then even see, like, where your emotions are
at, and be like, Oh, wow, thatemotion really affected me
physically here. That's right,right? Because they're all
interconnected.
Natalie (50:19):
Oh, yeah. And what's the body telling you? Okay. JJ,
okay. Ben and I are gonna stoptalking about the mental health.
He's my
JJ (50:26):
BFF, back off. He's my BFF,
Unknown (50:29):
back off. Now, ladies, we
JJ (50:30):
can all okay, sorry, we, we, we're gonna have to take a
pause. Okay. So question, sofour areas that you talked
about, where do you findyourself? Which area do you see
yourself drained in the most?
And what is your? What is Your?
Your go to, go to, yeah,
Unknown (50:48):
it helps you. I would say, also, I pick up on other
people's energies a lot, and soemotional is the one that really
gets me the most. And so I wouldsay, I'm the, you know,
emotionally overwhelmedcaregiver, and so that's when I
take a pause, put a hand on mychest, my heart, and I say, you
(51:10):
know, I do. I don't have tocarry everyone else's emotions
and ask the question, Is thismine, or is this someone else's?
Natalie (51:17):
Oh, I love you. I love it. I love the question itself,
is this mine or is this someoneelse's? And that goes back to
what we were talking about withMel Robbins, about just
JJ (51:31):
Medicaid them,
Unknown (51:34):
and then this is theirs. I cannot fix that for
them. I can show up in calmpresence, once I know where I'm
at and they're responsible forfor how they show up.
Natalie (51:49):
Oh. Mel Robbins, you can have us all on your show. We
love your books. I also count12345, actually, it's 54321,
yep. Actually, 54321, that welove you, we we honestly love
you and but Okay, and here's myquestion, because I know I have
to wrap it up, because we couldkeep
Unknown (52:07):
talking forever.
Natalie (52:10):
What is the thing this is? This is not this doesn't
even feel like guilty pleasure.
But what is your favorite guiltypleasure at this point? What is
the thing that you do just foryourself, that you that really
helps you to reconnect, that youenjoy, that you're like, I'm
just doing this for me.
Unknown (52:25):
Yeah, okay, I'll go to Tarjay
Natalie (52:32):
universal Tarjay,
Unknown (52:35):
and I'll get a frozen Coca Cola and a bag of Cool
Ranch Doritos. Car in theparking lot. And I did this too
when covid, I had to do grocerypickups because I was masking
and everything. And I don't wantto, yeah, I do grocery pickups,
but then I'd like just run intothe caf, the cafe part, and I
get those two things for myself,and I go back and I sit there
(52:56):
and eat it in the car before Iwent home. And I still,
Natalie (52:59):
I'm going to tell you she is literally a sister,
because, I mean, this is, that'sthe kind of things. We're
foodies and, oh yeah,
Unknown (53:08):
and Doritos.
Natalie (53:11):
Like, that's our go to when we feel stressed. Like,
honestly, here lately in stress,M M's, like, M M's, and coke and
Unknown (53:20):
Doritos, regular, regular,
Natalie (53:22):
or peanut regular. I actually go just regular. And I
normally don't eat milkchocolate. I normally try to eat
dark chocolate. So in my mind,it's healthier, right? Whatever
it is, but, but m, M's are itcan go, it can swing ugly, real
fast, and so downhill. It's onehandful and then 10 handfuls
(53:42):
later, I'm like, I don't thinkthat's healthy. Well, here
Unknown (53:45):
I'll help you pause a little bit with that. How I eat
Skittles? You can eat M M's thisway too, blue ones at a time,
two brown ones at a time. Sojust like, match up the colors,
and it'll help slow down theconsumption. But you can still
like, oh, that needsexcessive. And I like that. I'm
like color coordination as well.
JJ (54:09):
Jen, thank you so much. I have learned so much. I'm going
to take that test.
Natalie (54:15):
I'll close this out and again, Thanks Jen, for loving on
us. We will make sure to haveall these things, the quiz about
what's draining you now, andcaregiver relief guide, and all
the information for Jen, you'regoing to want to connect with
her on all social mediaplatforms, because she is just
nuggets of wisdom. And here'sthe thing, if you're unsure,
just pause. That's my answer. Ifyou're unsure, just take a
(54:38):
pause. And so Jay, will youclose this out
JJ (54:41):
Absolutely, guys, until we confess again, we will see you
next time. Bye, bye.
Natalie (54:51):
Well, friends, that's a wrap on this week's confession
again. Thank you so much forlistening. But before you go,
please take a moment to leave usa. You and tell your friends
about the confessions podcast.
Don't forget to visit ourwebsite to sign up for our
newsletter. You'll also find thevideo recording of all of our
episodes on the confessionswebsite and our YouTube channel.
(55:12):
Don't worry, all the details areincluded in the show notes
below. We'll see you nextTuesday when we come together to
confess again, Till then, takecare of you. Okay, let's talk
disclaimers. You may besurprised to find out, but we
are not medical professionalsand are not providing any
(55:34):
medical advice. If you have anymedical questions, we recommend
that you talk with a medicalprofessional of your choice, as
always, my sisters and I, atConfessions of a reluctant
caregiver, have taken care inselecting speakers, but the
opinions of our speakers aretheirs alone. The views and
opinions stated in this podcastare solely those of the
(55:57):
contributors and not necessarilythose of our distributors or
hosting company. This podcast iscopyrighted and no part can be
reproduced without the expressedwritten consent of the
sisterhood of care LLC. Thankyou for listening to the
confessions of our reluctantcaregiver podcast.
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