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September 9, 2025 58 mins

Jason Binder, the founder of Aware Coaching, is a dedicated husband and father of five. His caregiving journey began unexpectedly when his wife, Tracy, a lively marathon runner and mother, received a diagnosis of glioblastoma, a terminal brain cancer. This news came just weeks after they had moved into their dream farmhouse. Drawing on his background in pharma and his experience as a change agent, Jason quickly mobilized a support network, leveraging both his professional connections and the strength of his local community to ensure Tracy received the best possible care. His story is one of resilience, as he navigated the emotional and logistical challenges of caregiving while maintaining a sense of hope and purpose for his family.

Throughout our conversation, Jason shares candidly about the toll that long-term caregiving has taken on his mental and physical health, as well as the impact on his children and marriage. He discusses the importance of building a strong support system—what he calls the “three and twelve”—and the need for emotional resilience, especially for men in caregiving roles. Jason’s commitment to advocacy extends beyond his own family; through Aware Coaching, he offers free support and resources to other families affected by brain cancer, aiming to change the narrative around male caregivers and reduce the alarming rate at which female patients are abandoned during serious illness. His story is both inspiring and deeply human, offering valuable insights and hope to anyone facing similar challenges.

About Jason:

Jason Binder is a caregiver, advocate, and founder of Aware Coaching, a free support service for families impacted by brain cancer. His journey began when his wife, Tracy, was diagnosed with glioblastoma in 2022, thrusting him into the uncharted territory of high-stakes caregiving while raising five children. Drawing from his background as a pharmaceutical executive in oncology, Jason blends professional expertise with lived experience to help others navigate the emotional, relational, and practical realities of cancer.

Through Aware Coaching, Jason offers coaching and AI-driven tools like the GBM AI Agent to provide patients and caregivers with real-time answers, hope, and connection. He is also the creator of BrainStorm Health, a substack platform using anonymized caregiver and patient conversations to identify unmet needs and influence care innovation.

Jason’s work is rooted in a belief that no one should face a brain cancer diagnosis alone — and that emotional resilience and relational health are as essential to quality of life as medical treatment. He speaks candidly about the toll caregiving takes, the importance of community, and the need for better integration of patient and caregiver voices in research, clinical trials, and healthcare policy.

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Transcript

Episode Transcript

Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Natalie (00:02):
Hey guys, it's your favorite sisters with the
Confessions of a reluctantcaregiver. Podcast. On the show,
you'll hear caregiversconfessing the good, the bad and
the completely unexpected.
You're guaranteed to relate, beinspired. Lead with helpful tips
and resources, and, of course,laugh. Now let's get to today's
confession. Hey Jay,

JJ (00:31):
well, hello

Natalie (00:31):
Natalie. Good morning.
How's it going? I'm delightful.
How are you I'm just swimmingright along. I'm jumping into it
because, honestly, we've got anamazing guest, and we have

JJ (00:43):
a boy you'll be to do my voice. It's a boy.

Natalie (00:46):
It is and it is a boy, and he is pretty amazing. I had
the opportunity to meet again.
This name is near and dear,because my husband's name is
Jason. So clearly Jason and Iwere meant to be best friends,
and had, here we go again. Hadthe opportunity to meet Jason a
couple of months ago, and he isjust this powerhouse caregiver.

(01:06):
And love him, and his story isgoing to speak to you. And this
is, this is not an easy story.
He's, he's still caring, is myanswer. He is still caring, and
I'm not going to give it away.
And, JJ, please do not giveeverything away in the bio.
Okay, like, we got to allowpeople to have something
interest, like, what, and so.

(01:31):
JJ, I want to, I want you totell everyone about our newest
bestie, Jason binder, sorry,

JJ (01:37):
I had it, Jason, I'm just saying, all right, I'll cut out
a sentence so I don't give itaway, because Natalie says I
give everything. Does giveeverything. So I know. So today
we have with us Jason binder,okay, guys, he is a caregiver
and advocate, and he's a founderof aware coaching, and that is a
free support service forfamilies impacted by brain

(02:00):
cancer. So we will have that inthe show notes, because I want
you to remember that he's goingto tell us about it. His work is
rooted in a belief that no oneshould face a brain cancer
diagnosis alone. His story andNatalie doesn't want me to give
it away, so, but I am going totell you a little bit about six
weeks after moving into hisdream farmhouse, he and his wife

(02:21):
Tracy, had spent years buildinghis life changed forever. His
wife a healthy woman, basically,she's getting,

Unknown (02:30):
hey, I'm not gonna lie.
She is a beast.

Natalie (02:32):
I've met Tracy and she could,

JJ (02:34):
she's, she's amazing, okay, she's, she runs

Natalie (02:37):
the Boston Marathon. I mean, like, that's all I'm gonna
say. She ran the boss America,okay, like

JJ (02:41):
that. That was it. So days later, they were staring at a
scan that showed glioblastoma,which is a terminal brain
cancer. But his mission now, andbecause I skipped a big
sentence, his mission isn't justto help his wife thrive. It's to
be an example to his kids, of aman and a husband who doesn't

(03:03):
run. And I think that's reallyimportant, because we're going
to talk about that, about thathistory of women who have been
diagnosed with glioblastoma. Ididn't give it a while, Jason,
so I'm excited to have you here,because you're my neighbor. We
just found out you're like, astreet over, so I'm really
excited. Thanks for being here.

Unknown (03:22):
Yeah, thanks for having me, and look forward to you
bringing lots of sweet treats toour house soon.

Natalie (03:29):
Apparently, know that JJ is a baker, because I'm going
to tell you she is a baker andso like I am not I go to fresh
market, who can sponsor us, butI go to fresh market and I go to
some of my favorite bakeriesbecause I can't cook and I just
own it so. But this is not aboutme and my lack of abilities, but

(03:53):
this is about Jason and so, sohappy to finally have you on the
podcast. I think this is goingto be great. So let's start off.
Let's start from the beginning.
Give us a little bit of historyabout you, where you're from,
and, of course, how you andTracy met, and you've got, like,
a slew of kids. I mean, you gota whole basketball team,
although you although I'm notsure why you didn't stop and hit

(04:16):
the sixth man. I'm not gonna lieto you, inches, good. So tell us
a little bit about your fight,your story.

Unknown (04:25):
Yeah. I mean, I grew up in Maryland. I'm an only child,
and in high school, there wasthis girl who was sitting a few
bleachers up from me, and I hadthe amazing pickup line of how
my sweater and her socksmatched. You know, that was 33
years ago. And you know, we, wegrew up together. We experienced

(04:47):
a lot of life together. Went tocollege together, got married
after college, you know, shedid. She's a doctor. To physical
therapy. I started a career inpharma, traveled the world and
lived in London for a coupleyears.

Natalie (05:00):
Okay, you're cool. I'm going to be in your all's back
pocket. Like, when did you Okay,wait a second, when did you say,
Tracy, start dating? Like, whatwas it

Unknown (05:09):
like? 1990 1992 we met.
1993

Natalie (05:13):
at least, started dating. You're gonna have to
tell me what year that was inhigh school. I have no clue
about your

Unknown (05:19):
junior year

JJ (05:22):
high school. Your high school sweethearts, your

Unknown (05:25):
high school sweethearts, you know, like
anything, life bumps in the wayof some of those things pristine
and perfect. But you know, we'vebeen through lots of life. Our
parents divorced early in ourrelationship. My mom had a
massive stroke when I was 21 andnever had aphasia the rest of
her life. My dad died when I was31 my mom passed away during

(05:49):
covid. So like we've had lots oflife that we've had to go
through, even in our ownmarriage, you know, I did. I did
plenty to try to blow it up, andthrough the grace of God, you
know, transformed me and thenallowed our marriage to become
something that we were actually,you know, coaching other couples
to go through really hard timeswhere trauma and grief and loss

(06:11):
was like the core aspects ofrecovery. So we were doing that
for a really long time. And, youknow, I was in pharma. I've had
25 years of, you know, bigpharma oncology, you know,
powerhouses, where I helped themtransform the way they use data,
digital and like, you know, wecall it AI now. We call it
machine learning. We call it BigData. We call it predictive

(06:33):
analytics. Like I was at theforefront of a lot of those
things to help us optimize theway we're in clinical trials.
So, you know, all that beingsaid, you know, we went through
covid, we built our farmhouse,you know, we moved from
California with three kids toPennsylvania, we picked up
another kid, and then moved inNorth Carolina and felt called

(06:53):
for adoption while we werebuilding our 15 acre homestead.
You know, I've got cows andchickens and goats and you know,
you name it,

Natalie (07:01):
skipping over so many good things. Jay's killing

JJ (07:04):
He's killing me. So tell me about the how many, how old are
your kids now? You got five. Sohow are we?

Unknown (07:11):
Our oldest son is 17, and we've got three girls, 1513,
just turned eight last week.
Then we have a four year oldadopted son. So we're a
multiracial family, and just,you know, I'm gonna have us. I'm
gonna have a son whose birth dadwas 652, 50, and I'm not, yeah,

(07:33):
you gotta watch a YouTube,because I'm not gonna lie to
you, I'm not feeling like you're652, 50. I'm not gonna about 10
to 12 inches less than that,

JJ (07:44):
your house is like fun.
That's why you needed, yeah,acres, that is, let's use that,

Unknown (07:50):
yeah? Well, we need it because we run right wide open.
Obviously, Tracy being amarathoner has inspired our kids
to be phenomenal athletes. We'vegot triathletes who are at the
national level. We've got a USAG, a most level nine, you know,
eighth grader, and then we tryto figure out what to do with
the last two kids when we've gotenough time for life. That's

(08:11):
hilarious. They're all upstairsright now. Otherwise there'd be,
like, multiple interruptions andscreaming in the background,

Natalie (08:19):
you know. Let me ask you this, because we didn't talk
about this. I appreciate yousharing. You moved down because
you're in North Carolina, yes,when your mom had a stroke and
you said she, did youparticipate in caregiving at
that point? I mean, you're anonly child.

Unknown (08:35):
When I was 21 years old, I was a junior in college,
you know, I've learned a lotabout how to talk with children
in traumatic events based mainlybecause my my dad did the best
he could, but sugar coatedeverything told me everything
was fine, and it never was solike that probably was one of

(08:57):
the major, you know, traumaticexperiences in my life, And I
did it, you know, in the contextof being a young adult in
college. So I didn't reallyexperience caregiving, but I'm
sure it's what contributed tohis early death. He didn't care
for himself.

Natalie (09:15):
Oh, he did not care for himself. And you know, if you
don't mind, like, just chat alittle bit about it, because it
sounds like, I think, like manyparents, they try to protect
children, depending on thefamily dynamic, they try to
protect them. I could imagineyou're you saying your dad sugar
coated it is probably justdidn't want you to worry in his
mind.

Unknown (09:35):
Oh, yeah, it's protection, yeah. But it's not
necessarily healthy, right? It'sa we have. We all have a innate
desire to avoid pain at allcosts. I took away that I would
be appropriate and clear andtruthful, and then let them
help, kind of determine the dripof information, the depth of.

(10:00):
Information that they wanted tohear. So, you know, from the
very beginning I was clearabout, you know, it's a brain
tumor. What does that mean? I'mnot really sure. Is mom gonna
die, not not anytime soon, and,you know, so I kind of be really
clear about, you know, it'saggressive, it is rare. But, you
know, I'm doing everything mypower to to get her all the best

(10:23):
options possible. And then theysaw, you know, the church get
involved with praying over her.
And like, you know, it was, itwas a village affair at that
point. But, yeah, I've alwaystried to be really thoughtful
about including all them at theright level. I've read even
recently that, you know, thefive to seven year olds, while
they understand the least. Theyinternalize the most. Yeah, they
project it as their own fault,which is, which is

(10:46):
heartbreaking. So that promptedme to have a few more
conversations with them, nowthat we're at like, recurrence
number two, treatment plannumber you name it, surgery
number four, plus,

Natalie (10:59):
well, I'm going to pause you though, because I'm
going to say you got to startfrom the beginning, because you
just jumped right into themiddle. Yeah, and I want to
bring everybody kind of up tospeed. We talked a little bit
about your your mom having astroke, your dad caring, not,
probably sharing with you thefull picture of probably the

(11:20):
intensity severity, just becauseof protection mode,

Unknown (11:24):
yeah, in his inability to process like, I remember,
there was a moment where I askedhim how he was doing in the car,
and I was like, yeah, if it wasmy is my bride, my love, I would
just be heartbroken. Are youdoing okay? He's like, I don't
want to talk about it like itshut me down to like, as a man
not connected to your feelingsor not willing to go there
because it just hurts, too bad.
That's what I experienced. Andthen, you know, I probably lived

(11:47):
that way for a very long time,until I figured out how to
engage those things at a healthyway, in a healthy way,

Natalie (11:56):
right? Yeah, so life is going along. And you did mention
that you all had some bumps inthe road, some bumps that could
have really derailed yourmarriage, and could have gone
separate ways, and you all wouldhave been completely different
paths, but you and your wifewere able to work through that,
and not only work through that,but come out on the other end

(12:17):
saying, We want to help otherpeople So it really doesn't
happen to you, or to allow youto know you can get past this,
like absolutely have to destroyyour marriage,

Unknown (12:30):
absolutely, you know, we were I was getting ready to
exit corporate to do that fulltime with Tracy. I was leading
groups, building curriculums,coaching several couples. She
was doing the same masterclasses. The people we're
working with are getting readyto to leave the big ministry.
They were part of the starttheir own with us as their right

(12:50):
hand. And this is all in, youknow, sexual betrayal and that
type of destruction andmarriage, which most people
would say there's a biblicalright to have divorce, right? So
like to then work through thatto a point where we're restored
and healed, and then to take in,Wade back into that muck,

(13:11):
created a huge amount ofemotional resilience to the
place where we were praying tobe such an impact in the world
that the enemy would have us onhis top 10 Most Wanted? Oh, I

Natalie (13:22):
love that. I love that you're trying to be on Satan's
top 10,

Unknown (13:27):
and then she got a brain tumor Well, and that's the
thing.

Natalie (13:30):
You know, it's funny how God works in your life. Is
what I'll say. It's funny howyou know and you don't
understand why you have to gothrough certain things. Let's
talk about Tracy getting thediagnosis, and what kind of the
build up and how you'reobserving, because at this
point, you all are pretty intune with one another. At this

(13:50):
point, you've done the work toget through some pieces and then
to support other people. And youguys are thinking, we're
sailing, man, we got the windbehind our backs. Yeah,

Unknown (14:00):
I was really angry that we got a brain tumor. After all,
we had gone through to recoverwhat I figured was gonna be
that's gotta be the Paramountsummit of consequence and pain,
and it was literally thebuilding blocks to I probably
can hold my family without goingsouth and blowing us up again,

(14:21):
right? So, like I say that thatrecovery process created the
foundation for me to be presentand to not hit the road and
think that's a better option.
So, yeah, leading up to thatheadaches, she went to see her
primary care that said, Takemore ibuprofen, more headaches,
you know, went to our friendswho are eye doctors to see if

(14:44):
they could see something on aretinal scan. More headaches. I
went to church and brought a newfamily to church with us. She
went to the ER and got a CATscan. They found a four
centimeter brain tumor. Youknow, we were kind of worried,
but now. Really wanted to allowthat into our, yeah, into the
foreground, and then, you know,immediately I'm telling the

(15:07):
kids, Mom's got something goingon. I got to go. We don't have
any family in North Carolina.
They're all up north so Iprobably called one of our
family friends, and they cameand hang with the kids while I
went to be with Tracy. We had toget into another hospital that
had an MRI because she was atlike, a local just, er, basic,

(15:29):
you know, capabilities. We knewpeople worked at the bigger
hospital. They started pullingstrings. They did the MRI, you
know, tell them more about thetumor. And then that's when the
the people at that place had theaudacity to suggest we could do
surgery tomorrow. And I waslike, so How much experience do
you have doing these surgeries?
Oh, I've been doing about sixmonths, and you know, the scar
will be from, like, here tohere. And, like, I was like,

(15:50):
Yeah, I know where I'm not goingto be doing this, yeah. And

Natalie (15:55):
I'm going to pause you for a second, because I got to
take a break now that we're backon track, because that way I can
get car, because I got to hearthe story and JJ has not heard
it, so we'll be right back

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JJ (16:40):
you All right, everybody, we are back here with Jason binder
and Natalie is she says, JJ,hasn't heard it, so she wants to
hear the story. So I'm ready,Jason, because you've gone into
this small hospital and they'vetold you all they can do,
basically, like in 24 hours tosave your wife. So I'm a little
nervous about this. So give methe story

Unknown (17:01):
well, and that's not a typical for brain cancer. You're
in shock, right? Or she's 4344marathoner like, you know, she
doesn't eat junk, she's she'snot sedentary, she's, you know,
there's not a family historylike this is not supposed to be
happening. So, like, when you'rein shock, a lot of people and

(17:23):
she was like this, let's justget it done. I wanted those
scheduled. I'm like, No, never,because she just wants to do it.
And a lot of people withglioblastoma die in their local
hospital because you needspecialty care. So I'm in
pharma. I know that there'sDuke, and I know that dude's
huge. I also know that WakeForest is a national cancer

(17:45):
institute center. And then Iobviously at AstraZeneca, my my
customer base was the seniorexecutive team. So CEO, head of
r, d, so like head of oncologycommercial. So I'm just sending
out emails to all them. Who doyou know? Who should I talk to?
Yeah, and within, you know,within no time at all, I'm

(18:06):
connected to all the top brainneuro oncologists at Duke. And
then within our churchcommunity, we had someone in one
of the small groups that was afellow with the very well known
and reputable brain surgeon atWake Forest and within 24 hours,
we're at the end of that surgeonat Wake Forest schedule, and he

(18:28):
spent an hour with us. Wow,like, we don't know anything
about what the tumor really is.
He's just, like, explaining allthe things about what we don't
know. And like just sitting withus. The Duke experience was a
little bit different, not aslike, able to sit with us
through all that little more ofa bigger system and machine. And
I'm not, I'm not saying thatthat's a bad thing. It's just

(18:51):
not what we needed at that time.
We needed someone to, like, sitwith us every every moment, and
so we decided to get surgery andcare at Wake Forest, which is
about 30 miles from our house,we had surgery. We were told
that they'd be able to diagnosethis, the cancer on the bedside.

(19:13):
They couldn't just so we she wasdone. We waited for them to tell
us what the diagnosis was. Youknow, I jumped back into life
and took my son to Sarasota forhis triathlon. And when I got
back after our plane wascanceled and we had to find a
someone to drive us home, thataround midnight, she was
throwing up, and this is aboutthree to four weeks later from

(19:35):
the first surgery. So I took herthe ER, and they had grown back.
Wow, completely

Natalie (19:42):
Did you know at the time it was glioblastoma? No,
they just knew it was something,a tumor in the brain that looked
like

Unknown (19:50):
a blue cell tumor that had what they call peanut
features. You have to put a chatlink in the description for what
that is. Yeah, it's a technicalword, but typically it's like,
young boys get this type ofbrain cancer, and not grown
women and and then there's no,there's no, like, big data on

(20:11):
it, there's like, use cases, andit's like, nine months of
prognosis. But we didn't knowthat. And then after the second
resection, six weeks later, theydove straight into radiation.
They knew they had somethingthey couldn't mess with, but we
were still waiting for thediagnosis, even into treatment.
And obviously you want to knowwhat you had before you treat

(20:32):
it. That's why they waited. Butby waiting, ended up having a
second resection. So that'slike, you know, double trauma.
So, like, I rememberspecifically, like, we got
through the first one, I stillfelt good. This is, like, what
happened. Imagine the biggestballoon popping in the world.
You don't, you can't, you can'treally, like, pick yourself back
up easily after that.

JJ (20:52):
Are you still working during

Unknown (20:54):
working full time? You know, I've got a very high
visibility role. And at thatpoint, I was I told them what
was going on, or, like, youknow, do we need to do? And I
was like, I probably need to notwork for a bit. And they said,
Okay, did you,

Natalie (21:10):
did you take FMLA? They

Unknown (21:12):
said, Jason, just come back when you're ready. And they
didn't go on any of those roads,because they knew that when you
start this in the US, when youstart those clocks, right? You
can't unstart those clocks interms of short term disability
and FMLA, they're like, youknow, you just tell us what you
need.

Natalie (21:30):
That's so interesting, as a big pharma that company, it
gives you a different feel,because you don't hear that as
often, you know, if you reallythink about it. You don't hear
that

Unknown (21:42):
in that moment. They're very gracious. Yeah, they didn't
have. They didn't have to be,right? They didn't have. They
could have just fell the rulebook, which a lot of Big Pharma
would do. But, but in this case,it was a blessing to allow me to
essentially, I took three monthsoff of work, and that was all
during radiation. And remember,we had just moved into this

(22:03):
house, and we're 800 feet offthe road, we didn't even have a
driveway, and we're supposed togo to radiation, you know, the
Wake Forest, back and forth. Andthen someday, one day, a big,
giant dump truck showed up withgravel, and just started laying
gravel and laying all the rock.
And then someone showed up witha skid steer and started grading
it out. And it was just thesmall groups from church this,

(22:25):
deciding to see a need, to meeta need, and all of a sudden, you
know, we've got a driveway

Natalie (22:31):
that that says so much, though about your team. I want
to back up for a second, becauseyou know, you and your wife are
going through this, and you'vegot the nuggets, baby nuggets,
your kids, and you had alreadyadopted the fifth, yeah,

JJ (22:49):
yeah, let's, let's be 18 months at that time. You said,
18 months

Unknown (22:52):
at that time, 18 months old, and mom, his mom, got sick,
and I was trying to get him intopreschools. And he, you know,
whenever you go into adoption,you enter trauma, and he was
asked to not come back to threepreschools,

Natalie (23:07):
yeah. So he had some, he probably had some in utero
stuff,

Unknown (23:12):
I imagine so, because we got him when he was 36 hours.
So it's not like there's a lotof trauma between birth and
seeing us, but like, if, youknow, imagine, if you guys are
moms, like you're carrying thatchild and loving it every
moment, just by knowing it'sthere, and like you're doing the
things that are gonna make surethat that child is coming into

(23:32):
the world with every possibleyou know, opportunity. Contrast
that with someone who doesn'twant a pregnancy but decided for
to do adoption. Praise the Lord.
Maybe it isn't doing all thosethings, maybe this maintaining
life every day, you know, yeah,so, yeah, so that that
transmits. And then, you know,we've had to, I've had to deal
with that while keeping Tracyafloat and the kids afloat. And

Natalie (23:54):
that's, I think, that's my thing, is you've got five
children, and they're all under18, and you've got an 18 month
old, and you're trying to figureout like, and get to
appointments and get to this,oh, and you don't have any
direct family. You have churchfamily. And so did you and Tracy

(24:16):
talk about like? What was theconversation about? Like,
respectfully, and I'm going tosay this because this is a clean
podcast, but how the hell arepodcast, but how the hell are we
going to do this? Like, how arewe going to raise the children
get you and you have not alittle cancer, you have a big
cancer, as in, in the head, theworst one, you're the winner of
the worst cancer. And

Unknown (24:39):
give that away. I don't know that we had a conversation.
I just went in. We just went toaction. We're doers. Our whole
life's been doers. Move acrossmove across world, Move cross
country. You know, the Spiritled us to North Carolina, yeah,
without a job, you know, in awindow or, like, I could get a
loan closed with a. An activeemployment without being

(25:02):
employed. So like, yeah, thechurch community, the school
communities, the gymnasticscommunity, the preschool
community, the triathloncommunity, essentially, there
was a few moms are like, what doyou need? I'm like, I think I
need food. We didn't have anextra driver at that point, my
kids need to get to school andneed to get home. They need to

(25:24):
get to practice, they need toget home. They'd need lunch
packed. And then it justhappened. People, the women,
organized and made it happen.
And Tracy was really mad that Iwas doing all this and she
wasn't involved in the textstrings and things like that.
And I was like, you just needto, you know, take treatment and
recover and I'll figure out therest. So, yeah, that's how that

(25:48):
worked.

Natalie (25:52):
You know, I find that I think it's so interesting. You
know, Emily, our younger sister,worked for care agency for a
window of time. And she alwayssaid that the men made really
good caregivers, and that'sbecause they, from a logistical
standpoint, they just kind oflike there were things, that

(26:14):
there were skill sets that youhad, that men have, that are a
little different than women. Andshe would always say that. And
so let me ask you, do you thinkyour past experiences and your
skill set like think about yourwork skill set and your
strengths areas? You think thosehelped you in trying to
navigate? Because the one thingI will say is that you've built

(26:35):
your team around non bloodrelatives, and everybody has
just said we're going to put ourarms around you and do that, but
tell me about that skill set.
What do you think the biggestskill sets you pulled on?

Unknown (26:48):
Well, my entire career in pharma is change agents and
transformations, so I see aproblem, and I would tell people
in interviews like, what's yourwhat's your superpower? And I'd
always use the example ofRussell Crowe and a beautiful
mind, you know, without all theillusions, well, maybe I have
some, but like, you could justsee the solution light up. Yeah,

(27:12):
yeah, I can do that. I don'tknow why. That's one of my
gifts. Like, I can see theproblem. And then, as a person
of action, I just go, and thenit's around. Like, if you're if
you're willing to be part of thesolution, then I'll ask you what
your gifts are, and then I'llput you to work and get out of
the way, because I knoweveryone's hearts in the right
place. So like, I don't have toworry about intention. I don't

(27:35):
have any other choices but tolean on these folks, and I
believe them to be people thatwe knew through relationships.
So I was trusting in them, and Ihad got to know them, like
personally through small groupsor just sharing life in school.
So I was willing to just, youknow, let that, let those things
go and let, I mean, let thechurch activate.

Natalie (27:57):
It's interesting to me.
J I feel like you're gonna askquestion. Go

JJ (28:03):
ahead. She knows. So I hear you saying it's interesting, but
I hear Yeah, exactly that.
Nellie says that this wholegroup around you, it's the south
Jason is what it is like. We'rejust like that. We're those
people, like, we're bringing youa pitcher, a sweet tea and a
cake, and then we're like, letus take your kids to the pool.
So we're those people, but Ihear that, but also these are,

(28:25):
like the first two you've hadtwo surgeries. So my question
is, but how long has How longhas Tracy? When did this start?
What year did this start?
Because I'm trying to

Unknown (28:36):
get my 2022 22 Okay, so like radiation and all this, all
this initial surge happened inthat time through June or July
of that year. It's all the waythrough the summertime well, and

Natalie (28:50):
I'm gonna, this is where I'm gonna take a break
right here, because we're gonnapick right back up. We'll be
right back.

Unknown (28:56):
Care forward is a technology platform that
connects volunteers withseniors, the disabled and those
with chronic or complex healthconditions, offering support,
like transportation, home visitsand more details
online@careforward.io

JJ (29:11):
so we're, we're back, and Jason, we've, we've talked
about, first of all, his team.
He's got a great team going onand but the timeline for this
February 22 to June of 22 isreally these first and second
recurrences, or first firstdiagnosis and then recurrence.
So take me through thattimeline, because we're Tracy is

(29:32):
still she's active. She's hereat the house, there at the house
with you. She's not here at myhouse. But tell me what's going
on, like, tell me how this

Unknown (29:42):
progresses. Yeah, so after the second surgery, maybe
the end of March, we startedbrain and spinal radiation. So
five days a week, she ended updoing 37 rounds of radiation,
which is brutal. So we'redriving to Wake Forest every
morning from Greensboro. Andcoming back and the and it

(30:02):
wrecked her appetite and hertaste. She tasted metal. She can
only eat two things again, oneof the Southern moms brought her
gluten free biscuits from thelocal farmers market. This lady
was doing a side hustle and dideverything gluten free, and
Tracy's gluten free, and I'mgluten free. So, like the
biscuits tasted good. She atebiscuits, and then we, she only

(30:25):
likes hamburgers. So we had ahamburger at this one restaurant
every day for, I don't know, twomonths. And then she'd go home
and pass out, and I would passout, and then, you know, I'd see
a friend over like we had a treedown on the properties just over
here with his chainsaw cuttingup the tree, and I'm too tired
even go out to say hi. You know,feel guilty that I can't do it

(30:48):
myself.

Natalie (30:50):
It's interesting that you say guilt. Let me ask you
this. And I hope this is, well,I mean, this could come across
as stereotypical, but, I mean,this is what a lot of I think
about my husband, my husband didnot, does not consider me his
caregiver. He considers me hiswife. And I think there's a lot
of things around that, and it'snot because he doesn't care

(31:10):
about me or whatnot. I thinkit's a lot of how he was raised,
in traditional roles andmasculine roles. And what does
masculinity really mean? Tell meabout some of the emotions,
thoughts, feelings, that you'regoing through at this time,
because, I mean, you're havingto give up a lot of control.
You're sitting there saying, Ididn't I didn't even feel like
going outside and telling theguy, thanks for doing it. I just

(31:33):
do this. You're not at the endof this journey. You're right in
the middle of it. And so if youthink about it. And this
happened with our mom, too. Ifyou're not careful, you'll wear
out your help. And so tell meabout some feelings, emotions
you're going through. And thenthen I want to ask you about,
how are you keeping the help?

Unknown (31:55):
Great point. It's something that I've been
thinking a lot about recently. Ii I say thank you a lot in that
point, in those days, howappreciative I am. I try to keep
people aware of what's going on,because I'm getting, you know, I
had like 13 text strings goingand like updates on social

(32:17):
media, and I kind of consolidateall one place, you know, I've
got her parents who are far awaywanting to know all the details
every moment and like, gottameasure what you gotta measure
what you say about brain cancer,because people are gonna grab on
to every little detail andassume the worst, right? So I

(32:38):
held a lot inside just for me tomanage and hold. And then I
would give a little bit todetails here and there as they
were validated. Because, youknow, there's time between
getting a an MRI report andseeing the doctor, then knowing
what you're going to do, yeah,getting bits and pieces out
gratitude. And then Tracy and I,like she, she wanted to go to

(33:01):
church every Sunday, so they sawher just worshiping at the front
of the church. And, like, Ican't tell you how many people
have told us what inspirationshe's been just seeing someone
who's given that, you know,really bad hand and just, you
know, not wanting to stop atall. So I think that, I think
seeing her was probably theinspiration. I don't I don't

(33:23):
feel like I thought a lot abouthanding things off as much. I
just remember that one timewhen, like, another man's
helping me. I should go out. Ishould go be part of that, and I
just couldn't. So I rememberthat one specifically. So then
at three years, you know, mostpeople don't get to that point.
We rented out a whole party, youknow, a whole place, and had a

(33:45):
party and invited all the peoplewho had poured into us and just
loved on them, and, you know, Itoasted them and let them know
much we cared. So, like, it tookus three years to kind of give
back or acknowledge them in aformal way, and so we did that.
But like, it's, it seems morechallenging now to get the same
amount of momentum in care. AndI asked myself, like, did we

(34:08):
burn them out? Did Did peoplejust like, feel like they're on
to something else? It's veryisolating to be in this space. I
talk a lot about, you know, Ican't remember last time was
invited over for a barbecue.
It's been years. Maybe it'sbecause we've got five kids and,
like, they, know, with it ortsunami, like we're not, we're
not as social anymore. Tracy'snot as social. And like, the the

(34:33):
culture in the south isn't, Ithink the women connect the dots
and connect the families, andthen do the things, and then
when she's out, you know, thereisn't much connection, right?
So, like, and then she, she'shad so much fatigue because of
all the medicine, she can't stayup past seven, yeah. So, like,
someone gave us tickets toHamilton at the Greensboro

(34:55):
Tanner center. We went, and westayed for the first half
because. By the by intermission,she was exhausted, so we went
home. That's the kind ofexperience that is today, when
there was an initial surge andall those things and like, you
know, people's lives change,and, you know, we're still kind
of captured.

Natalie (35:16):
Yeah, it sounds like you're a little bit almost like
held hostage, like your life isin this pause, in this circular
just kind of go to doctor'sappointments. And I remember
that myself just feeling likeand that's why I think it's
almost like a merry go roundthat never stops, and you can't
really get off. And I rememberthat's, I think that's why we

(35:37):
really that's where I realized Iwas not okay at the end of
everything happening when wecame back from New York is and
I've never thought about thisuntil you kind of said everybody
just kind of it almost becomeblurry, if you think about it,
and and when the merry go roundfinally stopped, I looked around
and I couldn't figure out whereI was, and I felt very

(35:58):
disoriented, and wasn't surewhat I was supposed to do or
where I was supposed to go. Iwonder about, how, how do we
stretch that out? Because whatyou're saying is so authentic
about, like, we've beencaregiving for five years, and
we know moms respectfully burnedthrough people, like, let's,

(36:19):
let's call it for what it is.
We've burned through people,they can only handle so much.
And if you really think aboutit, at some point, this is the
hardest thing to say, people, tosee, you guys, going through
such a struggle is very hard.
And I wonder if that's part ofthe pull away, because it's
like, oh, it's so hard. It's whyI'm not invited to barbecues,

(36:40):
because what are we going totalk about? Like, you know what?
I mean? That's how I

Unknown (36:42):
Yeah, well, grief is always the elephant in the room.
Yeah, no one, no one knows howto address it or say it or deal
with that. You know, in induality, this disease, where
we've over extended our stay,you know, three or four times
now. So, like, I don't know whatpeople think, but it's

(37:03):
definitely a nightmare I keepasking to wake up from.

JJ (37:08):
So let me ask you a question. You and Tracy, you
know, you openly say you wentthrough struggles prior, and you
with your marriage. Tell meabout your marriage now and what
this has done and how thistransformation has occurred, and
what you share, what you couldshare with

Unknown (37:24):
others, yeah, so I'm more wanting to talk about
feelings, because it keeps megrounded. She now is more
active, action oriented, so it'snice when she does break down
and grieve. I feel like there'smore for me to do. The really

(37:45):
nasty thing about brain canceris the ongoing deficits that you
experience with your loved onein terms of cognition, executive
functioning, speech. So like inthe middle of treatment, it's
harder to connect becausefatigue and those types of
things. So we try to do datenights, you know, they're really

(38:06):
early in the evening, which isfine. I don't mind so much.
There's a lot of you know, Idon't know what brain cancer did
to her, but like for the firstmonth, we watched every episode
of 22 seasons of Deadliest Catchthat she never had an interest
in before, through all of those.
And then, like, she likes towatch YouTube videos of like
fails. And, you know, she alwayswants to search funniest pets, I

(38:31):
don't know, so we'll sit andwatch that together. So that's
what that looks like. She like,still likes to go for walks, and
I'll do that with her when Ican. I think the the Dreaming is
not as big anymore, thevacation, like our final also,
and what sounds on vacation.

(38:51):
Sounds on vacation, you know,like the only vacation I want is
the kids not to be at home andwe stay home because going
somewhere is such a stressfulendeavor. It's not relaxing at
all, because I don't know where,I don't know when we're gonna
need a hospital, where thehospital is where, like, Oh, I'm
at home. I've got everyone at myfingertips. Yeah. So it's

(39:13):
definitely like, different. It'sit feels more caregiving
oriented now than when earlierin the process, which is sad.
But, you know, we do devotionsevery morning. She pulls me into
those. Sometimes I don't want todo them, but she like, we're
listening to our stuff. Like,yep, so, like, very regimented.

(39:35):
All those, all those corecharacteristics of her are now
more on the surface. Yeah, thosethat grit, determination, doing
is really there and then, like,paired with the short term
memory loss, you know, losingher phone every 12 minutes, you
know, just, you know, one of thebiggest gifts we had this past

(39:57):
week being away for treatmentwas some. Family, friends came
over and organized our closetthat had never, we never got a
chance to organize our closet.
And went to moved in, we saw 50boxes unpacked. When this all
happened, we finally, like, madesomething I would avoid in our
closet till neck actually walkthrough.

Natalie (40:15):
Wow, it's really, it's, it's like, it is life
interrupted. Cancer hasinterrupted and and really, kind
of almost, kind of feels alittle bit paralyzing and so but
I hear you being I don't hearyou saying, look, it's not
roses, people, it ain't rosesand unicorns and all that. But I

(40:39):
do hear resilience in you andthe things that you're going to
continue to do, the things thatyou're trying to do, to remain
connected there, the things thatyou're doing, because the out,
the prognosis for this is stillthe same. And this goes back
though true still, though we'reall going to die at some point.
The problem is, for you guys isthat you know that time is more

(41:03):
limited for your wife. And sohow do you take that time that
you have, and how do youmaximize that to the best of
your ability? Because you've gotfive children, you're 18, that
at the time when you had thatchild that you 18 months old,
this child has only known yourwife being ill and and how do
you so, how? I almost want tosay, how are the kids? Three

(41:27):
years later, four years later.
Do you know what I mean, like,how are the kids?

Unknown (41:31):
Yeah, so the oldest doesn't want to know anything,
so I have to pull them insometimes let them know. The
second oldest wants to knoweverything, so I have to push
her away to reassure the thirdone doesn't want to know
anything, and goes and runs. Theeight year old daughter just
knows mom's sick, and, you know,wants to know when it's calling
me done. And the little guydoesn't have a word for this. So

(41:55):
how are they doing? I feel likebecause now we're on second
recurrence, and in clinicaltrial and experimental
treatment. Everyone's on alittle more edge than normal.
They're like, is this gonnawork? And I'm like, I don't
know. Well, how come you keepsaying you don't know? Stop
telling me you don't know. Idon't know. Be more certain. I'm
certain I don't know.

Natalie (42:18):
It's hard for people that don't have life experience
to understand.

Unknown (42:21):
So I really think about it, to not have any type of
certainty to reassure yourchildren that their mom's going
to be okay tomorrow.

Natalie (42:30):
Yeah, yeah. Do you? And this is personal, so if you say
no, don't I'm not answeringthat. Do you have them in
therapy? How are they doing inschool? Because these are things
that I think that are importantfor sandwich generation.
Caregivers that have children,people that have children,
they're trying to understandwhat's going on with the adults.

Unknown (42:48):
Yeah. So I'll start with me. There was a point after
the first year where I was tyingmy shoes in the mud room, and
one of the kids goes, Dad, dad,dad. And I was like, Well, no,
what's happening? A little guyput his hands in the garbage,
and I had to go take a napbecause my heart rate went so
high, and I kept on like gettingdisoriented. I was having panic

(43:09):
attacks. So I started doingtrauma therapy and EMDR to kind
of just be able to not go likethat. And I did that for a year
to my kids have done counselingfor anxiety and just having
someone to talk to kind of walkwith them, yeah? So like, yeah.
And I've thought about, like,you know, what is it gonna look

(43:31):
like if something does happen?
And you know, you're always,you're always rolling your brain
into the what ifs, yeah, I knowwhen I'm grieving the most is
when my brain starts to writeher eulogy.

JJ (43:46):
Have you you two talked about it like she says, This is
what I want for the kids, like,this is the plan for you? Is it
something that she that you twoverbally talk about? No,

Unknown (43:58):
because we're still on the on the path of decades, not
days. Got it. We have done allthose, you know, all the estate
planning and, yeah, all thedocuments. But, like, I don't
think we will have thatconversation until it's staring
us in the face, which isprobably going to be the wrong

(44:18):
thing to do, but it's justthat's okay. It feels like
giving up a little bit for uswho are like, have a dream. Go
make it. Yeah,

JJ (44:28):
you said that, Tracy, you're now in clinical trials, and some
people are averse to those. Somepeople are afraid of those. Can
you tell me just briefly aboutdecision to do that and just
move forward with it? How youguys got no clinical

Unknown (44:40):
trial. Well, the assumption you're making is that
we had options, okay, because ofthe two surgeries that took away
a bunch of options because shehad spinal radiation. You hear
all the great things aboutimmunotherapy and car T cells.
Can't do any of those so. Reallylimited after the last treatment

(45:03):
approach progressed. So, like,we would have many options, and
this one seemed good. So goinginto my scientific experience,
like, I really know that forglioblastoma, you have to have a
multi disciplinary approach, andyou're taking a standard of
carry chemotherapy which hassome DNA destruction

(45:25):
capabilities, plus a newmolecule, which, you know, brain
tumors are really cruel. Theyhide. Your immune system doesn't
know they're there. Yeah. Sothis medicine that we're taking
presumably turns it on, or goesfrom cold to hot, your immune
system goes, oh, what in theworld? And then also delivers a

(45:45):
cytotoxic medicine, yeah. Sowe've got, like, a standard of
care, chemo, the ability to turnyour immune system on, and then
something that's delivering themedicine. And we know that goes
through the blood brain barrier,which is also another thing, and
I could get into, like, howpeople use mouse studies to
propagate hope, and it's reallydestructive and predatory. But,

(46:09):
you know, we didn't really havea lot of options.

Natalie (46:12):
You know, I know Jay, we're kind of at the end of our
time, and I want to, like, Ifeel like I need to tell you,
Jason, that I love you, becauseI feel like there's not a lot of
folks that are going throughthis level and this duration,
that the intensity and severityof what you guys have been

(46:33):
dealing with and being parentsand trying to support your wife
and trying to make itfinancially, because We didn't
even talk about finances. Wedidn't talk about how probably
devastating this can be for yourfamily, and how do you make sure
everything's going

Unknown (46:48):
especially when you get laid off in the middle of it,
yeah,

Natalie (46:52):
because you got laid off in the middle of it,
correct? Yeah.

Unknown (46:55):
And I've had vertigo, and I just got through blood
clots in my

JJ (46:59):
leg. Is that from not taking care of yourself, or

Unknown (47:03):
probably some of that and just chronic stress, you
know, diagnose PTSD, diagnosedcaregiver burnout, diagnosed
anxiety, depression, you know,all those things, insomnia.

JJ (47:16):
I know you said, I know we hadn't really talked about,
Well, you said about gettinglaid off in the middle. I'm kind
of curious anything to do withcaregiving. Do you think that
was an underlying or was thattime off or kind of

Unknown (47:30):
a I don't think I believe that to be true. Yeah.
Okay, good for an oncology drugdevelopment organization. That
would be a bad optics. That'sbad had more to do with some of
their internal where do we wantour workforce to exist and not
exist?

Natalie (47:49):
I'd rather, and let's believe that, and because I
agree with you, the optics wouldbe bad if they did, and it
doesn't align with what thebeginning felt like

Unknown (47:59):
part two of our conversation,

Natalie (48:03):
you know, let me ask you, this our, I know that. And
again, just kind of thinkingabout going into our sister
questions, which we do nothingbut sister questions the whole
time. Spoiler alert, I look atlike, you know, information that
you sent me and things that wetalked about, and you talk
about, you're the founder ofaware coaching, a free support
service for families impacted bybrain cancer. So you're not only

(48:26):
just taking care of your wifeand being a part of that team,
you know, because I know thereare people, but you're the
primary. You're also stilltrying to advocate, and you're
trying to help other people whomay be going through this
experience, maybe earlier on thejourney, or equal to and
potentially even people who, whomay have have been successful in

(48:49):
their body's response to thetreatments. And you know, what
can you learn from those people?
I just have to say, I thinkthat's absolutely inspiring,
that you you still have thewherewithal and the resilience
and internally to be able tosay, and I'm going to take that
on too.

Unknown (49:06):
Yeah, it started as wanting to do similar marriage
coaching for folks impacted bybrain cancer, and it's kind of
morphed into advocacy that I'vedone head of the hill. It's
morphed into developing AIcapabilities to help families
navigate all these questions sothey don't end up having surgery

(49:29):
in the local hospital afterfinding it and end up, you know,
not leaving ever, yeah, so like,I provide those for free. I
mean, I'm always answeringquestions on Facebook support
groups at this point, you know,people ask me questions about
different things, and I thinkI'm uniquely experienced with my
pharma background, my technicalbackground, my marriage coaching

(49:51):
background, and being acaregiver. I'm kind of perfectly
designed to do those things, andit gives me energy to. Yeah,
it's an, it's probably adistraction and an avoidance for
my current state, but it's, it'sa positive and healthy coping
versus a destructive one. Buildyour three and 12, yeah. So that
was a question people askedaround. How do you build

(50:13):
community? So most people don'thave community. It's true,
right? Especially in the socialmedia like, I get my fill on
likes and, you know, repost orwhatever, and I'm do this fair
share of that, so it'sbiblically inspired. So like,
whenever Jesus went away to dosomething really important, he
had James, John and Peter comewith them. Hey guys, and go into

(50:36):
the garden to pray. Stay awakeand they don't. But like, those
three, those three went to thetransfiguration, those three,
when all the inner circle ofeverything that was going on
that Jesus revealed to them. AndI've got Kyle, Matt and Andrew,
who are, like, on my group text,and it's like, you know, this
past week when, you know, I hada blood clot and Tracy was

(50:57):
really sick, and I was like, Iwant to tap out. I'm tired. I'm
done. Like, you know, they werepraying for me. They were like,
they all showed up at the housewhere the kids were and did
stuff with them. And like, youknow, they know everything
that's going on. And then the 12are like, what community or am I
in? Is a small group, or Biblestudy or Men's Ministry? Like,
those are the 12 that they'renot all the way in, but they're

(51:19):
the ones that are like, youknow, throw me over their
shoulder when I need to bepraying for me. You know, just,
man, I'm so sorry. Man, like, Ican't imagine. Hey, did you
watch the Eagles game lastnight? Because it looked really
good. And like, that's my 12.
So, like, I tell everybody, maleor female, get a three and get a
12. And most people are like, Idon't have anyone. Most dudes

(51:39):
have zero. They got drinkingbuddies and video game, you
know, friends that do child likethings. So that's not really
what this is at all. It'ssomeone who's pouring into you,
pointing you up to Christ,connecting you back to your
wife, you know, at all, in allinstances. And then, you know,
are there to get your back.

Natalie (52:03):
I've never heard of get your three and 12. And I just, I
wanted to make sure that we gotthat, because it's so true. And
rather, here's the thing,whether you believe in God and
Jesus or not, it's sound advice.
Oh yeah, three and 12. Get yourthree and 12. And I'm that'll be
something that just kind ofsticks right here in my head,

(52:24):
because I think about that forwho we had, and I feel pretty
confident I had three and 12without question during our
cancer treatments. And I could,I could, I could name my three
for sure, and two of them weremy sisters and so, and they were
always there. And then I haveanother friend, some other
friend that that was reallyclose, Jay, what? What's your

(52:47):
sister question? I don't want tokeep going, because I'm like,
Oh, I could just keep talking.

JJ (52:54):
Okay, you wrote something in your bio that was really
intriguing to me, and it wasthat female patients are six
times more likely to beabandoned. Yes, and I have never
heard this, and you said, mygoal is that is not going to be
me. I'm not going to be one ofthose. Could you just tell me
about that a little bit and whyyou said that's not going to be

Unknown (53:14):
me. So, as someone in pharma that did product
development, you know, inscientific community, you need
data to support claims, and Iwas really getting into this
relational health need to keepmarriages together during trying
times, emotional resilience andemotional intimacy is the
bedrock. Most men don't know howto do that. So how can I teach

(53:36):
them? And then I came acrossthis publication for the
American Cancer Society in 2009that essentially said that, you
know, there's, there's genderdisparity and caregiving, and
that when the the wife has achronic disease and even calls
out primary brain tumor, there'sin the data set they had, there
was a 6x increase in separationand divorce. And then when I

(54:00):
went, and then usually it's thatresponse, wow. And then the next
is, and I'm not surprised, yeah.
And as a dude that almost blewup his own marriage and then
came through like the papersuggests, that it's a lack of
commitment. It's not a lack ofcommitment, it's a lack of
capability to hold all of that.
Because you don't have yourthree and your 12, you don't

(54:21):
have emotional awareness. If youdon't have emotional awareness,
you can't have empathy. If youcan have empathy and emotional
awareness, you can haveemotional resilience. So like
you said, it's not going to beme, because I've got a son who's
17 who's going to watch me. I'vegot girls who are watching me. I
know how my dad didn't do thethings that I'm going to do now

(54:41):
and then all the men that I'vecoached through their process,
you know, they want to believethat you can never go back. Like
so many people say that part ofrecovery is relapse, and I don't
subscribe to that at all. No,you don't have to go back if you
know what's coming at you. Sonot only do I not. Want to be
that statistic. I want todestroy that statistic. I love

(55:04):
that, you know, instead of the88% of those couples
experiencing that, I want it tobe 0% I love that.

Natalie (55:10):
I could not absolutely love that anymore. And that's
actually where I'm gonna I'llstop us. And I do have one
question, because, and it feelsso flippant now, because, but, I
mean, really don't want to likethat statement that is speaking
to every man, but it's alsospeaking to every human, because
it doesn't just mean not menaren't the only ones who need

(55:33):
some emotional resilience. Yeah,everybody does. And I can tell
you right now, yes, that's myanswer, because that's
important. And so if that spoketo you, trust your gut and
listen to it. I always end withthis question, because it brings
me joy to hear about how youexperience joy. My question is,

(55:54):
is, what is your favorite guiltypleasure? What is the thing that
you do just for you, that bringsyou joy.

Unknown (56:01):
It is McDonald's caramel sundaes with double
caramel.

Natalie (56:08):
Oh my gosh, McDonald's, you need to, you need to love on
Jason. And honestly, if youcould just send him a machine
that works consistently, thatwould

Unknown (56:18):
be great. The ultimate thing.

Natalie (56:20):
Yes, the machine is always broken. McDonald's,
please get better. They just,they're, oh, they're cleaning
it. So Jason, my Jason, hisfavorite is, it's not double,
but he loves a McDonald's sundaewith caramel, and it brings him
so much happiness, exactly asyours, because for him, he can

(56:40):
taste the caramel. Someone whocan't taste There you go. I get
that. Oh, I love it. Well, youknow what? Jason, thank you so
much for being with us. It wasthis has just been such a
blessing. And you sharing yourjust authentic, honest story and
where you're at right now,because you're not done yet,

(57:02):
sir, and you're not out. You'renot out. And so I we will
continue to pray for you andyour wife and the babies and
regardless of how old they are,and we appreciate you being
here. Jay, you wanna close thisout

JJ (57:18):
absolutely thank everybody for being here, especially Jason
and until we confess again,we'll see you next time. Bye,
bye.

Natalie (57:30):
Well, friends, that's a wrap on this week's confession
again. Thank you so much forlistening. But before you go,
please take a moment to leave usa review and tell your friends
about the confessions podcast,don't forget to visit our
website to sign up for ournewsletter. You'll also find a
video recording of all of ourepisodes on the confessions

(57:50):
website and our YouTube channel.
Don't worry, all the details areincluded in the show notes
below. We'll see you nextTuesday when we come together to
confess again, Till then, takecare of you. Okay, let's talk
disclaimers. You may besurprised to find out, but we
are not medical professionalsand are not providing any

(58:13):
medical advice. If you have anymedical questions, we recommend
that you talk with a medicalprofessional of your choice. As
always, my sisters and I, atConfessions of a reluctant
caregiver, have taken care inselecting speakers, but the
opinions of our speakers aretheirs alone. The views and
opinions stated in this podcastare solely those of the

(58:35):
contributors and not necessarilythose of our distributors or
hosting company, this podcast iscopyrighted and no part can be
reproduced without the expresswritten consent of the
sisterhood of care LLC. Thankyou for listening to the
confessions of our reluctantcaregiver podcast.
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