November 30, 2023 • 44 mins
Vantage Point Foundation (VPF) is a nonprofit organization serving post-9/11 veterans and veterans’ spouses and partners across South Carolina as they transition out of military service. VPF believes that three things are necessary to fully reintegrate into civilian life: Community, Growth, and Purpose. We also think that spouses and partners are often overlooked and that providing both veterans and their spouses and partners with programs and support is necessary for the health and well-being of the family unit.
Our programs are designed to address transition challenges, identify obstacles, and provide the support and connection that enables veterans and their spouses and partners to thrive in civilian life.
Contact Information for Organization:
Address:
P.O. Box 31224
Charleston, SC 29417
Phone: (843) 790-3131
Email:
info@vantagepointfoundation.org
Social Media: The handle is: @Vantage Point Foundation for FB, Instagram, and LinkedIn.
Website: https://vantagepointfoundation.org
Home - Vantage Point Foundation
Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/vantagepointfoundation
Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/vantagepointfoundation/
Linked In: https://www.linkedin.com/company/vantage-point-foundation
YouTube: @vantagepoint3478 Vantage Point - YouTube
Confessions of a Reluctant Caregiver
Sisterhood of Care, LLC
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Natalie (00:03):
Hey folks, welcome to our special series heroes caring
for heroes on the Confessions ofa reluctant caregiver Podcast.
Today, we're featuringorganizations who offer services
and support to our herocaregivers. Now, let's listen in
as we learn more about theseamazing organizations. Well,
(00:24):
good morning, Shay. Good
JJ (00:26):
morning, Natalie.
Natalie (00:27):
And how are you doing?
JJ (00:28):
I am fan tastic. Oh,
Natalie (00:31):
you know what it feels like a good day to learn about
another amazing military sporteducational organization. It
JJ (00:40):
does. And today, we have vantagepoint foundation with us.
And they are a nonprofitorganization. Yep, serving post
911 veterans, and veteranspouses and partners across
South Carolina. And this isimportant, it's as they
transition out of militaryservice. Their programs are
(01:00):
designed to address transitionchallenges, which immediately we
all you know, have challenges,identify obstacles and provide
this support and connection thatthey need in the day. So today
we have with us a CatherineGerman, who's the Director of
Operations and partner programcoordinator, and Don Hoffman,
(01:21):
who is the nurse case manager.
It's important to say that theyhave a lot of experience in the
military Cascadia was in themail, she was not you know, she
served as a spouse because Ilike to say that she started
Natalie (01:35):
I was gonna say she served as well.
JJ (01:40):
She, she's a reservist. She was there as a spouse for 28
years and don't was also inservice as a spouse for 30
years. So these resources areexperienced. So welcome, ladies.
Unknown (01:56):
Thank you.
Natalie (01:56):
I love an educational podcast. It's just like a
podcast, but I put the wordeducation in front of
JJ (02:01):
I know, I know. I live up to that. So you guys, you help with
the transition, which I love.
Because tell us about VantagePoint Foundation. Like tell us
what, why, like, there's vantagepoint, tell us, you know, why
you guys originated but tell usthe why behind it. Why is it so
important?
Unknown (02:22):
We originated as a veteran, nonprofit serving those
who got out of transition, orwho got out of the military. So
are two of our founding membersthat kind of work together. One
in the nursing space in helpingwas it was it wounded, Wounded
Warrior regiment, it wasbasically both in active
(02:44):
service. And this was during aheavy kind of Iraq, Afghanistan
time when going, service membersthat were transitioning out had
multiple kind of war relatedissues going on. And eventually
the Marine Corps kind of shutsdown this program, and things
(03:04):
get limited. And the two of themkind of recognize, hey, there's
this gap that exists hostservice out, right, and you do
all the things that you have todo to transition out as you can
imagine, it's government,there's a lot of paperwork,
right. But I
Natalie (03:19):
don't think like you just say, I'd like to leave or
retire. And it happens in 24hours, right? Only if it's I
think it takes months, doesn'tit to exit the military or
goodness,
Unknown (03:32):
there's all these checklists, there's all this
kind of timeframe. Well, at 90days you do this, you can
imagine it. Yeah, very right.
But you cross over into thatthreshold. And now you're,
you've done all theadministration administrative
stuff. And now you're a veteran.
So now, where do you go to getthat support would talking to
(03:53):
you about what your purpose is?
Because militaries are reallyPurpose Driven Life? Right? You
know, so what what is yourpurpose? What's going on with
you for your health and wellbeing in service, you have a lot
of buddies the and a lot ofsupport and resources through
those connections. Where arethose connections now? So we
offer stuff to veterans that indepth courses and trainings, we
(04:15):
offer that that look primarilyat purpose and health and well
being there all kinds ofingredients that go into that
autonomy, talking about having aveteran, mentor, veteran to
veteran mentor, having Don who'sour case management, who can get
people connected to differentaspects of maybe health and well
(04:38):
being things that are going on.
So that's, that's kind ofserving veterans but we were
really, really lucky and thisspouse partner part of this
would not exist, but for one ofthe founding members, a lady
named Kim Bradley is also a 20plus year military spouse OSU
(05:00):
also happened to be a nurse andknew, hey, when you have a
veteran that is struggling or aveteran that is trying to find
their footing, the majority ofveterans are, are married or in
long term committedrelationships, right? So if
you're going to talk about thisveteran holistically, you've got
to talk about that unit. And sothat's why the spouse partner
(05:25):
program, I guess, is what I'mbetter able to answer, which is,
I'm going to get back tothinking about military, you've
got this person that'stransitioning, and we understand
with the military person like,wow, that would be really hard,
we get that we've studied thatwe know, there are lots of
people looking at that space.
But there's somebody who'ssimultaneously transitioning
(05:45):
alongside that military servicemember, and healthcare is
changing, and their life ischanging, and their community is
changing. And when a veteran orwhen a military service member
gets out, they become a veteran,right? Whether they use the
support and services that areconnected to that, whether they
(06:05):
take part in that community,that's up to them, but the
community exists as a spouse.
You're just there
Natalie (06:16):
blown to the wind grinds me with those like little
fuzzy things that you blow j inthe backyard that are think are
weeds that are pretty dandelion?
Yeah, well, I
Unknown (06:25):
think one of the things also that that makes it unique
is the fact that the challengesthat the military community and
then the veteran communityexperience is different in the
fact that so much of the timethere was kind of a cloak of
secrecy, not everybody, youknow, one of the issues we had
(06:46):
is, and I was a personal issuewith our family in particular
was, you know, as strugglesstarted happening, and more and
more symptoms of PTSD werepopping up. Don't tell anybody
about it. Let's try to getthrough it. And so all these
people are experiencing allthese same challenges and issues
and problems, but there's not aname to it. And we don't want to
(07:11):
share what's going on. Because,you know, our military members,
they wanted to stay functionaland relevant, and we don't want
anything getting in the way ofthe mission. And then so not
only issues happening whileactive duty is going on, but
then the transition out, theytook away the problems and don't
go away. And the less peoplewere talking about it, the
(07:35):
harder it was getting it home.
And so we're finding that as wecan just sit down and say,
what's happening. And you know,for my particular situation,
having Kim Bradley who was oneof the founders of vantage
point, sitting on my couch, andtalking to my husband and I and
not being shocked at what wewere experiencing with it the
(07:57):
crazy behavior that was new, butthat there was a name to it, and
that there was a reason and acausality. And but we were
starting to pull together someresources that are addressing it
and just imparting some hope forpeople that are experiencing it.
This has just given us an avenueto be able to talk about the
(08:23):
fact that this isn't this issomething that people are
experiencing, and we can supportthat and we're not shocked by
it. There are resources outthere we can get you connected
to and we're willing to listenand and walk alongside you with
this gun.
JJ (08:40):
Was there more support when you I know that you have kind of
a tribe or a feel like that'sthe case when you're on the
basis you can build that. Butwhen you do you lose that when
you come out of the military? Doyou find that those people that
you've kind of left behind thatstays? And that's why this
resource is so important withvantage point? Absolutely.
Unknown (09:02):
Well, absolutely. We live in just a regular American
neighborhood. Now, most of myneighbors are not affiliated
with the military. So when, youknow my husband was like, Yeah,
you know, we're invited to abarbecue and he's like, I just
can't go I can't deal with it. Ican't deal with people and
trying to explain what's goingon to somebody who has not been
(09:24):
in that space. Is it reallydifficult and and frustrating.
And then you tend to not want totalk to anybody and you pull
back and isolate a little bitand it's just unhealthy. So
giving people a place to talkabout it and giving people just
(09:44):
the space and the opportunity torealize one it's happening to a
lot of people you know, we'reall dealing with different
levels of transition stress,whether you were an active duty
spouse or you connected withyour veteran after that. They
were in active duty, we're allexperiencing some of these same
(10:06):
challenges at home. And there isa way to connect and realize
you're not alone in it. So,for me kind of going back to
defining that space, andNatalie, you and I talked before
about it, it's, you know, you,you get out and you're, your
service member becomes theveteran, and you become the
other person who's also gettingout, who's also trying to find
(10:26):
employment and trying to figureout where the kids are going to
go to school, or get the kidsoff to college, whatever that
looks like, trying to get ourarms around this group, and what
we were going to do and how wewere going to try and serve and
provide support and recognizingwe can't be everything to all
people, right? How do we firstbegin to even define this space?
(10:47):
Because it's a space, nobodytalks about? People don't talk
about the other half of theveteran. Right? So how do we
wrap our arms around that? Weknow our stories, we know what
our experience has been ascareer military families. But,
you know, how do we do this? Sowe kind of looked at what are
(11:10):
the two poles, we've got this onone side, you've got this.
Everything where we're out, wetransitioned out, it was smooth,
it was great. We bought a house,got kids in school, got job,
everything's wonderful. I'm surethere's people exist. If you
come across them,
Natalie (11:26):
let us know.
Unknown (11:29):
Or they're out there.
And so you've got that extremeright, everything's great. It
was fine. And then you've gotthe extreme wounded, injured,
ill, I'm a full time caretakerto my military service member.
And in between these twoextremes is this vast, gray
area. And that's the space thatwe don't understand that we
(11:50):
don't know, that nobody's reallystudying. But what we do know is
that the unit, the familyrelationship, the person that
the veteran loves the most andwho loves the veteran, most the
person that advocates for thatveteran more than anybody,
you're going to see you'recoming contact with. Right?
Who's fierce? What we do know isif you're not talking about
(12:13):
serving a veteran, and talkingabout those two people, and how
to support both, because theyneed each other, and that
relationship is so fundamentalto health and well being that
there's a gap there.
Natalie (12:30):
You're leaving one part out? You know, I think, you
know, Don, what resonated withme so much is, you're exactly
right. Like, I've got a lot offriends who are in the military.
And I think about you I know,it's like foster parents, foster
parents hanging out together,military families hanging out
together, they all have, theyhave shared people find
(12:53):
gravitate towards their people.
And they are like minded, theyhave shared experiences, that
sort of thing. And honestly, Icould see it, I see that whole
like, Okay, now we're separate.
It's almost like you're breakingup. And we're separating from
the family.
Unknown (13:13):
Your craziness, and you don't even have to explain it.
Natalie (13:16):
Yeah. And they know, yeah, because everybody's like,
Oh, yeah, that happened. Andnobody's sitting there like,
whoa. And then when you go intothe civilian world, and it's
funny, I like how you said, youknow, a normal American like a
civilian neighborhood. And Ithink that's really funny,
because I'm like, Oh, that's sototally true. Because you've
been living all together,everybody, that all everybody in
(13:38):
the neighborhoods and nobody'sthinking it's, you know, like,
Why does everybody have so manyflags around here? Oh, it's a
base. And so you know what Imean? And so I think that
resonates with me, because thenI could see where your husband
would be like, what am I gonnatalk to these people about? They
haven't, you know, what, and Idon't mean to sound hateful, but
it's almost like yes, cute. Youwent to work today? Like my work
(14:01):
look a little bit different. Oh,yeah. I know, you carry
concealed look at you, well, myconcealed is bigger. And,
Unknown (14:08):
and just are when he just wasn't feeling well and
treacly laying the why, youknow, that's the hard part. And
in that community with otherspouses, they, you don't have to
explain why they get why andthey don't take offense to it.
And you don't feel like you haveto explain everything. And it's
(14:28):
a knowing and just an ability tobe and there are a lot of
unspoken ins, with the militaryspouse community. And that's
again, what we try to foster isthat sense of community and
giving spouses even you know, wewe try to even have like little
regional groups, or spouses canjust go be together and you
(14:52):
don't have to explain a lotbecause it's theirs. It's just
an understanding with each otherthat you don't Get everywhere
else. And so we really do try tofoster that within our program
as well. That's one little armthat we are working on expanding
just because it's so importantto have that sense that somebody
(15:14):
gets it. And you just you don'thave to explain it.
After I left one of the lastcourses that we did about a
month or so later, so we broughtall these ladies together, and
they were primarily ladies,again, I'm sure there are the I
know, there are males that arepartners and spouses, that this
was the course of all females.
And one of the ladies call andsay, you know, I just had lunch
(15:37):
with so and so. And she had beenthrough one of your courses. And
if it wasn't for y'all, wewouldn't know each other. And it
was so nice to go and have lunchand just relax with somebody who
understood. And it's like,that's what we want, we want to
give you the opportunity, we hadthat, like you say we had that
on base, you make the base, andyou're lost, and you're in a new
(16:00):
place and a new city andsomebody ding dongs on the
doorbell or knocks or whatever,because they see the moving
truck and they're like, Hey,here's your daughter's. And
here's the list of where you goget your hair done. And here's
the great schools and here's,you have all that help. And then
you get out and you know, theneighbors across the street, see
the movie, man, they don't care,they're not coming over to your
door to say that's totally true.
(16:21):
You may need software and youmay not know how to find the
grocery store. And you may noteven know that the name save a
lot is a grocery store, youknow. So it's kind of trying to
create that community in thesame way that a veteran enjoys
this space with other veterans,there are spouses that enjoy in
the space with other spouses.
And I know my husband and I wentthrough a really difficult time
(16:42):
now, John and I's relationshipwe knew each other had met when
we were pregnant, and bothpregnant with our first child
without dating as to match.
Natalie (16:53):
You guys have known each other for four years. Why?
Unknown (16:58):
We met just last week.
So that we met we know eachother we're friends and there's
an instantaneous thing tofriendship and the in the
military you are you instantlyunderstand each other you
intimately know the lifestyle.
And I may not intimately knowyou, but I gotcha. So we knew
(17:18):
each other. And as it happenedthrough the course of the next
20 some odd years of back andforth war deployments. Every
time we were arriving in alocation she was leaving. So
we'd get there be like, Oh,John's here. Oh, Don's going. We
knew each other. So like we werehanging out all the time. But we
(17:39):
knew each other. And then fastforward. And my husband and I
hit this spot is this part whereit's like, Who in the world is
this person? What is happening?
You expect things when theyfirst returned back from a war
deployment? Don't expect ityears later. Instead of going
Oh, I understand this. I knowexactly what this is you you're
(18:01):
much more likely to say thisman. I'm going to ah, right kill
him. Right? Yes. Can I say that?
Um,
Natalie (18:11):
yes. Oh, yes. No,
Unknown (18:13):
would you hug them very hard. I'm having a really hard
time. Like Don said, it is youdo feel secrecy around it. You
know, this is a fullyfunctioning very together, man.
And we're together family. Andthis weird stuff is happening.
And I don't know why. I'm gonnasay divine intervention. Dawn
(18:35):
came to mind. I have no idea whyshe came to mind. But I signed
on. I don't do anything withsocial media. I really don't do
any of that. And y'all I wassigning up for a Twitter
account, because I saw DonHoffman and I'm going to get in
touch with her. This is thefirst time
I've never tweeted ever in mylife.
Natalie (18:53):
I'm mostly 20.
Unknown (18:56):
And I find her and I get her number. And I call and I
say Hey, and immediately myvoice starts to shake because
I'm just needing somebody. Andand she says, Well, hey, girl,
and I was like, Is this a goodplace is it's a good time for
you to talk. And she's like,well, I'm in an airport, we're
heading to Okinawa. They weremoving to Okinawa. She was in
(19:20):
the airport, getting ready toboard the plane. But she sat and
talked to me and said, Iremember this, you're going to
be okay. It's going to be okay.
So to have that and then kind ofunbeknownst to either of us,
neither of us was connected tovantage point at the time. There
was this third connection of KimBradley that I didn't know Don
was good friends with and shedidn't know I was good friends
(19:42):
with and as I moved to SouthCarolina, guess who's in South
Carolina down and Randy. Andguess who's working for vantage
point Don Hoffman and theconnection there was my good
friend Kim who said hey, whydon't you come to one of our
spouse courses? So between thistriangle of the three of us, it
was like, oh my, again, kind ofdivine intervention. But if we
(20:05):
can, we can have three peoplewho understand and know and help
each other in our voice for oneanother. There are 1000s of us
out there. And it was just theconnection. What? What is that
connection? And what if we starttalking about what that space
looks like? What are bringingwomen together and spouses and
partners and military memberstogether and saying, you know,
(20:28):
Hey, your health and well beingmatters in your connection to
one another matters?
Natalie (20:35):
It is what? It's what gets us through it. Go ahead,
Jay.
JJ (20:37):
Tell us I hear Dawn saying yes. Hear both of you saying,
these are some of the supports.
Tell us about the supports thatyou offer? The spouses and
partners, not just the meetings,tell us about the groups tell us
if I'm a spouse, or a partnerthat really needs tell us what I
get? How do I get in contactwith you? First of all, where
are you? And tell us? What do Iget? What do I get? What's my
(21:00):
bras,
Unknown (21:04):
lovely t shirt, thank you for playing the wheel.
Right? Right. Obviously, you canget in touch with us through
vantagepoint Foundation websiteand get more information. We
offer courses, so we'll bringspouses in and we offer a one or
(21:24):
a two day course that's reallylargely focused on well being,
and purpose and all of thosethings. And big thing is the
connection to one another. Theopportunity to connect with one
another, we're in SouthCarolina, we are South Carolina
specific, we serve the wholestate. And then inside, outside
of that, we have Dawn who canconnect you to if there are
(21:48):
other things going on, we saywe're not therapist, I can help
you find a therapist, if that'swhat you need. We're not
but I can I can listen to youall day long, I will listen and
the power of having somebody tosit and listen and pay attention
to what you're saying andunderstand what you're saying.
And then say, Listen, I've gotsome resources, here, I've got
(22:09):
some connections I can get youwith is hugely powerful. And I
think, to me, one of the bestthings that we do. And so anyone
that comes into the program, youcan vantage point foundation.org
is our website, you can getinformation on that. But if you
(22:29):
are not within the state ofSouth Carolina, we will get you
in contact with somebody thatcan support you where you are.
Okay. So we I don't let anybodyI even work with veterans from
you know, all over the place,may not specifically be able to
pull them into vantage point inSouth Carolina, but I will get
you connected where you need tobe. So we don't let it slip
(22:53):
through the cracks
Natalie (22:54):
and what you're talking about. And so for some people
are like, Oh, I get that. Butpeer support. That's that's
exactly what it is. And it's andwe've talked about this on other
on other podcast episodes aboutthe power of peer support. And
that's just what the mentalhealth community names it. It's
absolutely, that we just callthat, you know, relationship
building in normal people whereit's like, I have the same
(23:17):
experiences as you and I canempathize with you. And I can
even if I don't, I can seek tounderstand. And I can seek to
end the end simply the act ofseeking to understand and not
necessarily solving. Because Iknow Don, probably sometimes
you're probably just like,because a lot of times, you
know, I'll call JJ up. And we'renot military, but I'll call JJ
(23:40):
and I'm like, I don't need ananswer. I just need to just word
vomit. That's, and so I don'tneed you to fix it. And we know
that men love to fix it. Sorry,guys. But and women will be
like, and then what happenedpour the glass of wine and let's
get on. And so I think there's,there's so much to be said
(24:00):
there. So it sounds likeInformation and Referral so that
you can help with getting them,you know, but really, it starts
with listening. It starts withseeking to understand. And then,
okay, I hear these are someareas that you could use some
support in. This is how we cando that for you rather, we
(24:20):
provide it directly with healthand wellbeing. And this is how
you can get through it. Or I canget you connections through
other organizations who wesought we we walk alongside
with.
Unknown (24:32):
Absolutely, and we can't and I had the conversation
as well you know, for thoselistening that have that have a
resource that they are activelyinvolved with or work for and
you work with spouses, let usknow, shoot us an email on our
website and let us know so thatwe've got as many resources as
(24:52):
we can compile this, this has tobe a team effort. And I think
there are resources out thereyou know, many smaller resources
like vantage point, that dogreat work, and are small enough
to really get intimate, which isanother just super important
aspect of it is we're not builton numbers, but really intimacy
(25:13):
and relationships. And the morewe can get that we can, you
know, refer out to the better.
So let us know,I think it's just, it's kind of
that raising awareness, youknow, that this space is
important. The work with bothhalves of the veteran are
important. Don and I weretalking even within our little
(25:36):
small community, there's anothersmall nonprofit, nonprofit
called warrior surf and theyhave a spouse and partner
program, they start the wholefamily, they do different
things. And we do this like,Yay, let's celebrate that. I
would love to know, what arewhat other organizations that
are out there that maybe aren'teven in South Carolina, we have
(25:58):
a lot of service members becauseof the bases that are
transitioning out and we servethem and they might not may not
be staying here.
Natalie (26:09):
So Kat, one of the things that we talked about was
some initial thoughts on yourprogramming, and then you felt
like you had to take a stepback. And that's where that
wellness piece come in, comesin. So can we dive a little bit
deeper into what that lookslike? Because I think, you know,
it's not just about skillbuilding. So maybe a little bit
(26:30):
divers dive deeper into that.
Unknown (26:32):
Well, and for what for well, health and well being to
me, I think it particularly youknow, the the bulk of the
spouses that and partners wework with are women. And again,
we work with men, but you know,as as women and families,
whether you have children ornot, you tend to be the hub. And
(26:52):
when mom's Okay, or the wife'sOkay, everybody else's okay? And
we don't really take the time topay attention. We're never
intentional with just how am Idoing on the whole, you know, we
may be, you know, go to ourdental appointments, or we may
go to medical appointments. Butwell, being in health is so much
(27:14):
bigger than that. It encompassesevery part of who you are. And
we just don't take the time tobe intentional about that. So
that's kind of the first piecethat we try to do is just help
people be aware of what how areyou doing what's working for
you, what isn't working for you,and the things that are not
(27:36):
working for you? Where couldthat become friction in your
life, you know, we do want youto pursue purpose, but when
you're not well, or you've gotpieces in your life that just
aren't working. Let's take alook at those. We actually have
something called a hole healthprofile tool that the CDC worked
with vantagepoint foundation andhelped us create this data point
(28:00):
to where we take as a series ofthree surveys and these compiled
down to break into the eightdomains of health and well
being. And we do use the VAsframework for that because it
really works well. Okay. Andthen it gives you a snapshot.
It's not prescriptive, but justa snapshot of where you're doing
(28:22):
it that given time and eightdifferent domains of well being
and, and where there's somelower scores, it just gives you
a springboard of okay, why wouldthat be low? Why did I perceive
this as a low area? And arethere areas within that, that I
can zero in on and figure out sothat it's not causing me to
(28:43):
stumble, or it's not an obstacleand really kind of getting my
life going in the direction Iwant it to go? Because I think
without purpose, it's verydifficult to want to look at
well being. And if you're not,well, it's very difficult to
pursue purpose. So we try to putthose together. It just makes
sense that you can't have onewithout the other. So that's
(29:06):
kind of became the hub of whatwe're doing, not only with the
spouses, but the veterans aswell. That's the angle we're
taking with them as well, thatwe were drawn out. Don has used
the example of as this, thespouse in the relationship here.
So often the maypole, everythingextends out from you, everybody,
you stand still so everybody canmove around you right. And we we
(29:27):
realized that when we wereleaning heavily into purpose, we
have these families who havetransitioned out and we've got a
spouse and we're talking aboutyou know, what, what's really
purposeful for me, where do youwant to and people talk about
oh, find your purpose. What areyou going to do next? And we
recognize that when your purposeis I'm trying to get through the
(29:47):
day. Do I have the objectwithout choking you?
Do I have the the shin guardsand the apple slices and the
what do I have? I am just tryingto get to eight o'clock tonight,
with everybody's homework doneand everything like you. If you
ask any mom, spouse partner, youknow, like, what matters most to
(30:12):
you is that everybody in my lifeis taken care of. Great, as
cliche as it sounds, how do westrap on your own oxygen mask so
that you can continue to be thatmaple, because at the maypole
collapses is done. Now you'reright, we're all in trouble.
Now, how do we talk meaningfullyand balanced about what it is to
(30:36):
take care of yourself? And I'mnot saying, you know, hey, let's
train for a marathon.
Natalie (30:42):
My knees can't do it.
Right?
Unknown (30:44):
I'm not No, I just walk though. Right? We laugh and I
and I say, you know, just thisparticular time, in space in my
life, when things kind of gotreally bad. And we were dealing
with behaviors and things thatyou didn't understand, from both
of us. And lots of unresolvedissues that are just part of
(31:06):
this life. I say, you know, Ihad started in therapy and
started doing all these things.
And, but I needed to move. Ineeded that, you know, like, I
wanted the therapist to be likea doctor's appointment, there's
a brain, there's a sap and thepill.
Natalie (31:20):
So like a true military person, like, have we gotten to
the end yet or not, right?
Unknown (31:24):
We've got to go, we got to do, we're moving out. So my
need to do something was like,Okay, I need a, I don't know
what this mindfulness is, Idon't know what this health and
well being, I don't know whatany of that mess is, of the
magazines. I'm reading standingin the grocery store line. But
I'm gonna start somewhere. And Istarted with y'all, this was
basic, I'm gonna floss my teethevery night. And I'm gonna brush
(31:48):
for those two minutes everynight like that. It was that
basic, right? I'm gonna go getmyself a Sonicare toothbrush.
And I'm gonna get the mid flatflat floss. And I'm going to
give myself three whole minutesevery night that I am not going
to let go up. My dentist lovesme, by the way.
Natalie (32:07):
Well, you do have great teeth in case, get on Zoom to
see cat's teeth, thank you.
Unknown (32:13):
But that was kind of like somebody that understands
like, hey, that's, that's justas basic as you can get. I'm
trying to remember to eat and totake a shower, and to not hurt
anybody I love because all ofthem really tight. And having
some of the understand that inthe context of the military
experience, you know? And thenrecognizing, okay, like Don, and
(32:37):
I've said, these are ourstories. What is the person that
married the veteran? Thatdoesn't understand? Wow,
November's are really hard, notbased on that Iraq deployment,
or that Afghanistan? What doesthat what does that person go to
have understanding?
Well, they don't necessarily seethe inception in the why, you
(32:57):
know, we're at least I feel likewhen you're in it from the
beginning, it's like, well, youcan see how it unfolded. Right?
Oh, it's, oh, it's March. Allright. Now, now I get it.
Natalie (33:09):
Well, and it's exactly that exactly that I think, I
think it's really important forfolks to remember again, that
while your spouse was in themilitary, and so were you. And
that there, it was a significantfor month for them, and to be
mindful that it was asignificant month for you.
(33:31):
Because while they were going,you were staying, and you had
change, and that and that isevery time we as humans, we love
change not. And so we likepredictability and stability.
And military does not offerthat. They offer predictability
and structure and policy andprocedures. But you're moving,
(33:51):
you're this You're that I mean,at least you're like well, at
least every two years, we knowwe're going somewhere else. So
that's kind of predictable. ButI think about the loss that you
have because you lost yourspouse for a window of time. And
then when they come back, you'relike, Whoa, you're coming back
into my routine. And you'reasking me to change my routine
that the kids and I had gottendown, Marcin, our younger sister
(34:14):
wish she was here to be able tospeak to that and how it was for
her in the Air Force. That thatchange in routine
Unknown (34:20):
is hard. It is and the absolutely the assimilation with
that is much harder than gettingused to them being away. But you
know, we've had the discussionbefore as well whether there's
an element of grief almost thatnot only just for the physical
loss of them being home, butthen the grief of them coming
(34:42):
back and not being quite exactlywhat left or the person you felt
like you married to that'schanged and it's morphed and
some of it may come back some ofthem may not. But there's a
level of of that kind of longingfor what we had prior to this
(35:04):
whole mess kicking off? So I
Natalie (35:08):
can totally relate to that before and then the after
Ryan, your new normal and thatyou shifted your normal every
time that how many times did youhave to shift into a new normal,
right? And you think about thestable
Unknown (35:23):
especially when kids were involved, you had to be the
stable in the middle of all theunstable. And so always okay,
you know, my laugh, I've toldKat this I got a Christmas card
from my son a couple of yearsago, he's in his 20s. And it
just said to the one person inthe family that hasn't worried
us at one point or another.
Natalie (35:44):
Well, and that's that's I mean, but that's, that's a
that's a mama. That's theThat's, it is it is. And I hate
to say it's a stereotypicalrole, but it is the
stereotypical role that thewomen are like we are I love the
Big Fat Greek Wedding where, youknow, the husband is the head,
but I am the neck. Yeah. And Iand I turn the head.
Unknown (36:05):
Yes, right. Right, man, roll if I'm not there. That's
right. Your head will roll ifI'm not there.
Natalie (36:13):
Oh, my gosh, I'm gonna tell you, I feel like we've
gotten a little bit to churchtoday.
JJ (36:17):
I know, I have learned a lot. And I feel like I need like
that mental health and wellness,I could utilize their services.
So that needs something in thecivilian world for this? Well,
Natalie (36:27):
the whole health. You know, I think what got me was
when you said, the whole healthsurvey, and you all worked with
the VA and you it lines up withthe eight areas of wellness. And
I'm like, I felt like I need toget my hands on that I worked at
25 years in the mental healthfield. And I'm like, This is
what sounds like a lot ofcaregivers could benefit. I know
some of its going to leantowards the military and things
(36:48):
like that. But health andwellness is health and wellness.
It's just what's the situation?
And how do you modify theinstrument a little teeny bit to
say, this area or this area, butthe general areas of overall
health and wellness? How's itimpacting home? You know,
absolutely all that stuff. Ithink that is something that
could be really beneficial. I'dlike to get my hands on that
done.
Unknown (37:10):
Maybe find one in your inbox.
JJ (37:13):
I love it when I haven't been.
Natalie (37:16):
That would be awesome.
It just I just think that'sreally important. So because
you're right, sometimes thefirst step to helping you is an
awareness, like oh, man, andthen you see it and you're like,
Yeah,
Unknown (37:31):
right. We can get get so used to going through the day
now. And just your day to dayand you don't even take time to
think about how different areasof your life are affecting the
other areas. And everything'sinterconnected. Whether you want
it to be or not. It'sinterconnected. And not paying
(37:51):
attention. Things can startgoing south quickly. And we're
not paying attention to what'shappening and addressing it.
Absolutely.
Natalie (38:01):
So does the does. My last question, Jay, I'm sorry.
There was it's like it's like aregular podcast, because I'm
like, I love them. I don't playfavorites. So how long can
individuals be connected withyou? Is this like we're besties
forever, or you are you know,it's intermittent, almost like
therapy sometimes isintermittent. How's that work?
(38:21):
You do
Unknown (38:22):
a six month continuum.
Okay, and follow a little moreorganized for six months, but I
still work with veterans andspouses. Right. You know, I
started on in 2018. Working inthis space and worse, I still
get calls from people from yearsago. So yes, technically a six
monthformal aspect, and then the
(38:51):
informal is give us a call.
Yeah,right. We're not going anywhere.
So, yeah, gosh,
Natalie (39:00):
I just think about like, you know, cat, we talked
about this. In our phone calllike Jay, we, I remember when I
called you and I was like, Oh mygosh, I talked this awesome
woman named cat with vantagepoint. And like, we're besties
now she had no, she had no clue.
JJ (39:12):
I finally got a hold of her.
Natalie (39:15):
I was on the road. And I was like she's never get it
off the phone. And so she waslucky she had a group, but just
about, you know, there's so manyorganizations out there. And yet
there are alarmingly they'rehard to find. If you think about
it, it's not. And once you knowabout it, you're like, Hey, I've
been seeing you 30 times I'vepassed by your place 30 times,
(39:35):
but until you get this awarenessand so, you know, hopefully
anyone listening, please come onto our page and say, Hey, I know
about this group in my state,we've got to look like in my
state and this is and that way,Don and Kat get to use it as a
resource and say, Hey, you're inNorth Dakota or you're in New
York or you're here and youknow, and then how do we I think
(39:57):
there's such a great opportunityFor these groups to start coming
together, you know, I'd love tosee the military be able to say,
hey, we'd like to facilitate aspart of our aftercare program.
After as our post transitionprogram, we're going to set up
support groups, not only forveterans, but also for their
(40:18):
spouses and partners, regardlessof if you're in the caregiver
support program or not. Becausethat's, there's qualifications
for that. And you don't have tobe in the caregiver support
program to qualify toparticipate in vantagepoint. Is
that correct? or No? Perfect. Soeveryone's very inclusive.
Unknown (40:40):
Yeah, absolutely.
Absolutely. And we had talkedabout kind of on our on our
phone call, you know, one of thethings that I have is that
there, there are some wonderfulorganizations out there that are
serving veterans, there areother nonprofits like us,
they're doing great things withveterans. And I'm not going to I
won't name names, because thisis a wonderful organization here
in this state. And I think theyhave branches in other states
(41:03):
that are doing great things withveterans. And I was so excited
because it was such good stuff.
And I went to them. And I said,Wow, this is really amazing to
do anything for partners ofveterans. And their response
was, Well, absolutely. Once ayear, we have a picnic, and we
asked the spouses to join us andbring a covered dish. Yeah, it
(41:26):
was like, oh,
Natalie (41:29):
not so much. But thanks. That's what I was
looking for. I'd love to cookand
Unknown (41:36):
do something after everybody and come home
exhausted. Sounds like,
Natalie (41:40):
time. That's great. I'd love to be in support. Yeah, if,
you know,
Unknown (41:44):
if you're a veteran service organization, you know,
maybe have that conversationlike, wow, is there like is, are
the majority of veterans we'reserving, married? And what would
it look like to do somethingthat we
JJ (41:56):
hope you know? Absolutely,
Natalie (41:58):
that feels right, let's serve the whole unit. Everybody
understands the unit, themilitary. So
Unknown (42:04):
we say, you know, you hear people all the time and you
probably saw this, I think Isent you a clip. And it's one of
my things I say all the time,and you hear we love our
military families and theirfamilies. We love our veterans
and their families. And I thinkpeople really mean it. But what
is and their families mean?
What's the action there?
Natalie (42:21):
Huh? I like that. We went to church today on this
one. Felt like an educationalone. We're just having fun. I
love this. Be friends with Domgonna come and hang out with Don
and Kat down in South Carolina.
Absolutely. Remember, Virginiais for lovers and JJ is down in
the key salvo she's got a bettershe's got a better gig. She's on
the water. So you might want toyou might technically want to go
(42:41):
visit her. I got some mountains,though. So we got backs. And so
for sure. Thank you so much forcoming and sharing more about
Vantage Point Foundation. I'm soblessed that you guys were able
to be a part of this. And we'llhave more information about how
you can get in touch with theseladies in the show notes is
vantagepoint foundation.org. Andgo on and definitely check out
(43:06):
their website. And then again,here's our ask, we didn't ask
this from anybody else. If youhave other organizations that
are like vantage point or othermilitary supports that you want
to throw in, feel free to emailthem to us or put them in when
we're posting this in on oursocial medias. We would love
that.
Unknown (43:24):
Thank you so much.
JJ (43:25):
Thank you guys so much.
Unknown (43:27):
Thank you for bringing the awareness. We appreciate
Natalie (43:29):
you. Absolutely.
Thanks, guys until we talkagain. Thank you for listening
to our special series heroescaring for heroes. Please visit
our website to learn more aboutour featured organizations
supporting hero caregivers.
Before you go, please take amoment to leave us a review and
tell your friends about theconfessions podcast. Make sure
(43:51):
you connect with us on yourfavorite social media site to
stay up to date on all thingscaregiving. And of course, you
will find a video recording ofour episodes on the confessions
website and our YouTube Channel.
We'll see you next time when weconfess again
Hey folks, welcome to our special series heroes caring
for heroes on the Confessions ofa reluctant caregiver Podcast.
Today, we're featuringorganizations who offer services
and support to our herocaregivers. Now, let's listen in
as we learn more about theseamazing organizations. Well,
(00:24):
good morning, Shay. Good
JJ (00:26):
morning, Natalie.
Natalie (00:27):
And how are you doing?
JJ (00:28):
I am fan tastic. Oh,
Natalie (00:31):
you know what it feels like a good day to learn about
another amazing military sporteducational organization. It
JJ (00:40):
does. And today, we have vantagepoint foundation with us.
And they are a nonprofitorganization. Yep, serving post
911 veterans, and veteranspouses and partners across
South Carolina. And this isimportant, it's as they
transition out of militaryservice. Their programs are
(01:00):
designed to address transitionchallenges, which immediately we
all you know, have challenges,identify obstacles and provide
this support and connection thatthey need in the day. So today
we have with us a CatherineGerman, who's the Director of
Operations and partner programcoordinator, and Don Hoffman,
(01:21):
who is the nurse case manager.
It's important to say that theyhave a lot of experience in the
military Cascadia was in themail, she was not you know, she
served as a spouse because Ilike to say that she started
Natalie (01:35):
I was gonna say she served as well.
JJ (01:40):
She, she's a reservist. She was there as a spouse for 28
years and don't was also inservice as a spouse for 30
years. So these resources areexperienced. So welcome, ladies.
Unknown (01:56):
Thank you.
Natalie (01:56):
I love an educational podcast. It's just like a
podcast, but I put the wordeducation in front of
JJ (02:01):
I know, I know. I live up to that. So you guys, you help with
the transition, which I love.
Because tell us about VantagePoint Foundation. Like tell us
what, why, like, there's vantagepoint, tell us, you know, why
you guys originated but tell usthe why behind it. Why is it so
important?
Unknown (02:22):
We originated as a veteran, nonprofit serving those
who got out of transition, orwho got out of the military. So
are two of our founding membersthat kind of work together. One
in the nursing space in helpingwas it was it wounded, Wounded
Warrior regiment, it wasbasically both in active
(02:44):
service. And this was during aheavy kind of Iraq, Afghanistan
time when going, service membersthat were transitioning out had
multiple kind of war relatedissues going on. And eventually
the Marine Corps kind of shutsdown this program, and things
(03:04):
get limited. And the two of themkind of recognize, hey, there's
this gap that exists hostservice out, right, and you do
all the things that you have todo to transition out as you can
imagine, it's government,there's a lot of paperwork,
right. But I
Natalie (03:19):
don't think like you just say, I'd like to leave or
retire. And it happens in 24hours, right? Only if it's I
think it takes months, doesn'tit to exit the military or
goodness,
Unknown (03:32):
there's all these checklists, there's all this
kind of timeframe. Well, at 90days you do this, you can
imagine it. Yeah, very right.
But you cross over into thatthreshold. And now you're,
you've done all theadministration administrative
stuff. And now you're a veteran.
So now, where do you go to getthat support would talking to
(03:53):
you about what your purpose is?
Because militaries are reallyPurpose Driven Life? Right? You
know, so what what is yourpurpose? What's going on with
you for your health and wellbeing in service, you have a lot
of buddies the and a lot ofsupport and resources through
those connections. Where arethose connections now? So we
offer stuff to veterans that indepth courses and trainings, we
(04:15):
offer that that look primarilyat purpose and health and well
being there all kinds ofingredients that go into that
autonomy, talking about having aveteran, mentor, veteran to
veteran mentor, having Don who'sour case management, who can get
people connected to differentaspects of maybe health and well
(04:38):
being things that are going on.
So that's, that's kind ofserving veterans but we were
really, really lucky and thisspouse partner part of this
would not exist, but for one ofthe founding members, a lady
named Kim Bradley is also a 20plus year military spouse OSU
(05:00):
also happened to be a nurse andknew, hey, when you have a
veteran that is struggling or aveteran that is trying to find
their footing, the majority ofveterans are, are married or in
long term committedrelationships, right? So if
you're going to talk about thisveteran holistically, you've got
to talk about that unit. And sothat's why the spouse partner
(05:25):
program, I guess, is what I'mbetter able to answer, which is,
I'm going to get back tothinking about military, you've
got this person that'stransitioning, and we understand
with the military person like,wow, that would be really hard,
we get that we've studied thatwe know, there are lots of
people looking at that space.
But there's somebody who'ssimultaneously transitioning
(05:45):
alongside that military servicemember, and healthcare is
changing, and their life ischanging, and their community is
changing. And when a veteran orwhen a military service member
gets out, they become a veteran,right? Whether they use the
support and services that areconnected to that, whether they
(06:05):
take part in that community,that's up to them, but the
community exists as a spouse.
You're just there
Natalie (06:16):
blown to the wind grinds me with those like little
fuzzy things that you blow j inthe backyard that are think are
weeds that are pretty dandelion?
Yeah, well, I
Unknown (06:25):
think one of the things also that that makes it unique
is the fact that the challengesthat the military community and
then the veteran communityexperience is different in the
fact that so much of the timethere was kind of a cloak of
secrecy, not everybody, youknow, one of the issues we had
(06:46):
is, and I was a personal issuewith our family in particular
was, you know, as strugglesstarted happening, and more and
more symptoms of PTSD werepopping up. Don't tell anybody
about it. Let's try to getthrough it. And so all these
people are experiencing allthese same challenges and issues
and problems, but there's not aname to it. And we don't want to
(07:11):
share what's going on. Because,you know, our military members,
they wanted to stay functionaland relevant, and we don't want
anything getting in the way ofthe mission. And then so not
only issues happening whileactive duty is going on, but
then the transition out, theytook away the problems and don't
go away. And the less peoplewere talking about it, the
(07:35):
harder it was getting it home.
And so we're finding that as wecan just sit down and say,
what's happening. And you know,for my particular situation,
having Kim Bradley who was oneof the founders of vantage
point, sitting on my couch, andtalking to my husband and I and
not being shocked at what wewere experiencing with it the
(07:57):
crazy behavior that was new, butthat there was a name to it, and
that there was a reason and acausality. And but we were
starting to pull together someresources that are addressing it
and just imparting some hope forpeople that are experiencing it.
This has just given us an avenueto be able to talk about the
(08:23):
fact that this isn't this issomething that people are
experiencing, and we can supportthat and we're not shocked by
it. There are resources outthere we can get you connected
to and we're willing to listenand and walk alongside you with
this gun.
JJ (08:40):
Was there more support when you I know that you have kind of
a tribe or a feel like that'sthe case when you're on the
basis you can build that. Butwhen you do you lose that when
you come out of the military? Doyou find that those people that
you've kind of left behind thatstays? And that's why this
resource is so important withvantage point? Absolutely.
Unknown (09:02):
Well, absolutely. We live in just a regular American
neighborhood. Now, most of myneighbors are not affiliated
with the military. So when, youknow my husband was like, Yeah,
you know, we're invited to abarbecue and he's like, I just
can't go I can't deal with it. Ican't deal with people and
trying to explain what's goingon to somebody who has not been
(09:24):
in that space. Is it reallydifficult and and frustrating.
And then you tend to not want totalk to anybody and you pull
back and isolate a little bitand it's just unhealthy. So
giving people a place to talkabout it and giving people just
(09:44):
the space and the opportunity torealize one it's happening to a
lot of people you know, we'reall dealing with different
levels of transition stress,whether you were an active duty
spouse or you connected withyour veteran after that. They
were in active duty, we're allexperiencing some of these same
(10:06):
challenges at home. And there isa way to connect and realize
you're not alone in it. So,for me kind of going back to
defining that space, andNatalie, you and I talked before
about it, it's, you know, you,you get out and you're, your
service member becomes theveteran, and you become the
other person who's also gettingout, who's also trying to find
(10:26):
employment and trying to figureout where the kids are going to
go to school, or get the kidsoff to college, whatever that
looks like, trying to get ourarms around this group, and what
we were going to do and how wewere going to try and serve and
provide support and recognizingwe can't be everything to all
people, right? How do we firstbegin to even define this space?
(10:47):
Because it's a space, nobodytalks about? People don't talk
about the other half of theveteran. Right? So how do we
wrap our arms around that? Weknow our stories, we know what
our experience has been ascareer military families. But,
you know, how do we do this? Sowe kind of looked at what are
(11:10):
the two poles, we've got this onone side, you've got this.
Everything where we're out, wetransitioned out, it was smooth,
it was great. We bought a house,got kids in school, got job,
everything's wonderful. I'm surethere's people exist. If you
come across them,
Natalie (11:26):
let us know.
Unknown (11:29):
Or they're out there.
And so you've got that extremeright, everything's great. It
was fine. And then you've gotthe extreme wounded, injured,
ill, I'm a full time caretakerto my military service member.
And in between these twoextremes is this vast, gray
area. And that's the space thatwe don't understand that we
(11:50):
don't know, that nobody's reallystudying. But what we do know is
that the unit, the familyrelationship, the person that
the veteran loves the most andwho loves the veteran, most the
person that advocates for thatveteran more than anybody,
you're going to see you'recoming contact with. Right?
Who's fierce? What we do know isif you're not talking about
(12:13):
serving a veteran, and talkingabout those two people, and how
to support both, because theyneed each other, and that
relationship is so fundamentalto health and well being that
there's a gap there.
Natalie (12:30):
You're leaving one part out? You know, I think, you
know, Don, what resonated withme so much is, you're exactly
right. Like, I've got a lot offriends who are in the military.
And I think about you I know,it's like foster parents, foster
parents hanging out together,military families hanging out
together, they all have, theyhave shared people find
(12:53):
gravitate towards their people.
And they are like minded, theyhave shared experiences, that
sort of thing. And honestly, Icould see it, I see that whole
like, Okay, now we're separate.
It's almost like you're breakingup. And we're separating from
the family.
Unknown (13:13):
Your craziness, and you don't even have to explain it.
Natalie (13:16):
Yeah. And they know, yeah, because everybody's like,
Oh, yeah, that happened. Andnobody's sitting there like,
whoa. And then when you go intothe civilian world, and it's
funny, I like how you said, youknow, a normal American like a
civilian neighborhood. And Ithink that's really funny,
because I'm like, Oh, that's sototally true. Because you've
been living all together,everybody, that all everybody in
(13:38):
the neighborhoods and nobody'sthinking it's, you know, like,
Why does everybody have so manyflags around here? Oh, it's a
base. And so you know what Imean? And so I think that
resonates with me, because thenI could see where your husband
would be like, what am I gonnatalk to these people about? They
haven't, you know, what, and Idon't mean to sound hateful, but
it's almost like yes, cute. Youwent to work today? Like my work
(14:01):
look a little bit different. Oh,yeah. I know, you carry
concealed look at you, well, myconcealed is bigger. And,
Unknown (14:08):
and just are when he just wasn't feeling well and
treacly laying the why, youknow, that's the hard part. And
in that community with otherspouses, they, you don't have to
explain why they get why andthey don't take offense to it.
And you don't feel like you haveto explain everything. And it's
(14:28):
a knowing and just an ability tobe and there are a lot of
unspoken ins, with the militaryspouse community. And that's
again, what we try to foster isthat sense of community and
giving spouses even you know, wewe try to even have like little
regional groups, or spouses canjust go be together and you
(14:52):
don't have to explain a lotbecause it's theirs. It's just
an understanding with each otherthat you don't Get everywhere
else. And so we really do try tofoster that within our program
as well. That's one little armthat we are working on expanding
just because it's so importantto have that sense that somebody
(15:14):
gets it. And you just you don'thave to explain it.
After I left one of the lastcourses that we did about a
month or so later, so we broughtall these ladies together, and
they were primarily ladies,again, I'm sure there are the I
know, there are males that arepartners and spouses, that this
was the course of all females.
And one of the ladies call andsay, you know, I just had lunch
(15:37):
with so and so. And she had beenthrough one of your courses. And
if it wasn't for y'all, wewouldn't know each other. And it
was so nice to go and have lunchand just relax with somebody who
understood. And it's like,that's what we want, we want to
give you the opportunity, we hadthat, like you say we had that
on base, you make the base, andyou're lost, and you're in a new
(16:00):
place and a new city andsomebody ding dongs on the
doorbell or knocks or whatever,because they see the moving
truck and they're like, Hey,here's your daughter's. And
here's the list of where you goget your hair done. And here's
the great schools and here's,you have all that help. And then
you get out and you know, theneighbors across the street, see
the movie, man, they don't care,they're not coming over to your
door to say that's totally true.
(16:21):
You may need software and youmay not know how to find the
grocery store. And you may noteven know that the name save a
lot is a grocery store, youknow. So it's kind of trying to
create that community in thesame way that a veteran enjoys
this space with other veterans,there are spouses that enjoy in
the space with other spouses.
And I know my husband and I wentthrough a really difficult time
(16:42):
now, John and I's relationshipwe knew each other had met when
we were pregnant, and bothpregnant with our first child
without dating as to match.
Natalie (16:53):
You guys have known each other for four years. Why?
Unknown (16:58):
We met just last week.
So that we met we know eachother we're friends and there's
an instantaneous thing tofriendship and the in the
military you are you instantlyunderstand each other you
intimately know the lifestyle.
And I may not intimately knowyou, but I gotcha. So we knew
(17:18):
each other. And as it happenedthrough the course of the next
20 some odd years of back andforth war deployments. Every
time we were arriving in alocation she was leaving. So
we'd get there be like, Oh,John's here. Oh, Don's going. We
knew each other. So like we werehanging out all the time. But we
(17:39):
knew each other. And then fastforward. And my husband and I
hit this spot is this part whereit's like, Who in the world is
this person? What is happening?
You expect things when theyfirst returned back from a war
deployment? Don't expect ityears later. Instead of going
Oh, I understand this. I knowexactly what this is you you're
(18:01):
much more likely to say thisman. I'm going to ah, right kill
him. Right? Yes. Can I say that?
Um,
Natalie (18:11):
yes. Oh, yes. No,
Unknown (18:13):
would you hug them very hard. I'm having a really hard
time. Like Don said, it is youdo feel secrecy around it. You
know, this is a fullyfunctioning very together, man.
And we're together family. Andthis weird stuff is happening.
And I don't know why. I'm gonnasay divine intervention. Dawn
(18:35):
came to mind. I have no idea whyshe came to mind. But I signed
on. I don't do anything withsocial media. I really don't do
any of that. And y'all I wassigning up for a Twitter
account, because I saw DonHoffman and I'm going to get in
touch with her. This is thefirst time
I've never tweeted ever in mylife.
Natalie (18:53):
I'm mostly 20.
Unknown (18:56):
And I find her and I get her number. And I call and I
say Hey, and immediately myvoice starts to shake because
I'm just needing somebody. Andand she says, Well, hey, girl,
and I was like, Is this a goodplace is it's a good time for
you to talk. And she's like,well, I'm in an airport, we're
heading to Okinawa. They weremoving to Okinawa. She was in
(19:20):
the airport, getting ready toboard the plane. But she sat and
talked to me and said, Iremember this, you're going to
be okay. It's going to be okay.
So to have that and then kind ofunbeknownst to either of us,
neither of us was connected tovantage point at the time. There
was this third connection of KimBradley that I didn't know Don
was good friends with and shedidn't know I was good friends
(19:42):
with and as I moved to SouthCarolina, guess who's in South
Carolina down and Randy. Andguess who's working for vantage
point Don Hoffman and theconnection there was my good
friend Kim who said hey, whydon't you come to one of our
spouse courses? So between thistriangle of the three of us, it
was like, oh my, again, kind ofdivine intervention. But if we
(20:05):
can, we can have three peoplewho understand and know and help
each other in our voice for oneanother. There are 1000s of us
out there. And it was just theconnection. What? What is that
connection? And what if we starttalking about what that space
looks like? What are bringingwomen together and spouses and
partners and military memberstogether and saying, you know,
(20:28):
Hey, your health and well beingmatters in your connection to
one another matters?
Natalie (20:35):
It is what? It's what gets us through it. Go ahead,
Jay.
JJ (20:37):
Tell us I hear Dawn saying yes. Hear both of you saying,
these are some of the supports.
Tell us about the supports thatyou offer? The spouses and
partners, not just the meetings,tell us about the groups tell us
if I'm a spouse, or a partnerthat really needs tell us what I
get? How do I get in contactwith you? First of all, where
are you? And tell us? What do Iget? What do I get? What's my
(21:00):
bras,
Unknown (21:04):
lovely t shirt, thank you for playing the wheel.
Right? Right. Obviously, you canget in touch with us through
vantagepoint Foundation websiteand get more information. We
offer courses, so we'll bringspouses in and we offer a one or
(21:24):
a two day course that's reallylargely focused on well being,
and purpose and all of thosethings. And big thing is the
connection to one another. Theopportunity to connect with one
another, we're in SouthCarolina, we are South Carolina
specific, we serve the wholestate. And then inside, outside
of that, we have Dawn who canconnect you to if there are
(21:48):
other things going on, we saywe're not therapist, I can help
you find a therapist, if that'swhat you need. We're not
but I can I can listen to youall day long, I will listen and
the power of having somebody tosit and listen and pay attention
to what you're saying andunderstand what you're saying.
And then say, Listen, I've gotsome resources, here, I've got
(22:09):
some connections I can get youwith is hugely powerful. And I
think, to me, one of the bestthings that we do. And so anyone
that comes into the program, youcan vantage point foundation.org
is our website, you can getinformation on that. But if you
(22:29):
are not within the state ofSouth Carolina, we will get you
in contact with somebody thatcan support you where you are.
Okay. So we I don't let anybodyI even work with veterans from
you know, all over the place,may not specifically be able to
pull them into vantage point inSouth Carolina, but I will get
you connected where you need tobe. So we don't let it slip
(22:53):
through the cracks
Natalie (22:54):
and what you're talking about. And so for some people
are like, Oh, I get that. Butpeer support. That's that's
exactly what it is. And it's andwe've talked about this on other
on other podcast episodes aboutthe power of peer support. And
that's just what the mentalhealth community names it. It's
absolutely, that we just callthat, you know, relationship
building in normal people whereit's like, I have the same
(23:17):
experiences as you and I canempathize with you. And I can
even if I don't, I can seek tounderstand. And I can seek to
end the end simply the act ofseeking to understand and not
necessarily solving. Because Iknow Don, probably sometimes
you're probably just like,because a lot of times, you
know, I'll call JJ up. And we'renot military, but I'll call JJ
(23:40):
and I'm like, I don't need ananswer. I just need to just word
vomit. That's, and so I don'tneed you to fix it. And we know
that men love to fix it. Sorry,guys. But and women will be
like, and then what happenedpour the glass of wine and let's
get on. And so I think there's,there's so much to be said
(24:00):
there. So it sounds likeInformation and Referral so that
you can help with getting them,you know, but really, it starts
with listening. It starts withseeking to understand. And then,
okay, I hear these are someareas that you could use some
support in. This is how we cando that for you rather, we
(24:20):
provide it directly with healthand wellbeing. And this is how
you can get through it. Or I canget you connections through
other organizations who wesought we we walk alongside
with.
Unknown (24:32):
Absolutely, and we can't and I had the conversation
as well you know, for thoselistening that have that have a
resource that they are activelyinvolved with or work for and
you work with spouses, let usknow, shoot us an email on our
website and let us know so thatwe've got as many resources as
(24:52):
we can compile this, this has tobe a team effort. And I think
there are resources out thereyou know, many smaller resources
like vantage point, that dogreat work, and are small enough
to really get intimate, which isanother just super important
aspect of it is we're not builton numbers, but really intimacy
(25:13):
and relationships. And the morewe can get that we can, you
know, refer out to the better.
So let us know,I think it's just, it's kind of
that raising awareness, youknow, that this space is
important. The work with bothhalves of the veteran are
important. Don and I weretalking even within our little
(25:36):
small community, there's anothersmall nonprofit, nonprofit
called warrior surf and theyhave a spouse and partner
program, they start the wholefamily, they do different
things. And we do this like,Yay, let's celebrate that. I
would love to know, what arewhat other organizations that
are out there that maybe aren'teven in South Carolina, we have
(25:58):
a lot of service members becauseof the bases that are
transitioning out and we servethem and they might not may not
be staying here.
Natalie (26:09):
So Kat, one of the things that we talked about was
some initial thoughts on yourprogramming, and then you felt
like you had to take a stepback. And that's where that
wellness piece come in, comesin. So can we dive a little bit
deeper into what that lookslike? Because I think, you know,
it's not just about skillbuilding. So maybe a little bit
(26:30):
divers dive deeper into that.
Unknown (26:32):
Well, and for what for well, health and well being to
me, I think it particularly youknow, the the bulk of the
spouses that and partners wework with are women. And again,
we work with men, but you know,as as women and families,
whether you have children ornot, you tend to be the hub. And
(26:52):
when mom's Okay, or the wife'sOkay, everybody else's okay? And
we don't really take the time topay attention. We're never
intentional with just how am Idoing on the whole, you know, we
may be, you know, go to ourdental appointments, or we may
go to medical appointments. Butwell, being in health is so much
(27:14):
bigger than that. It encompassesevery part of who you are. And
we just don't take the time tobe intentional about that. So
that's kind of the first piecethat we try to do is just help
people be aware of what how areyou doing what's working for
you, what isn't working for you,and the things that are not
(27:36):
working for you? Where couldthat become friction in your
life, you know, we do want youto pursue purpose, but when
you're not well, or you've gotpieces in your life that just
aren't working. Let's take alook at those. We actually have
something called a hole healthprofile tool that the CDC worked
with vantagepoint foundation andhelped us create this data point
(28:00):
to where we take as a series ofthree surveys and these compiled
down to break into the eightdomains of health and well
being. And we do use the VAsframework for that because it
really works well. Okay. Andthen it gives you a snapshot.
It's not prescriptive, but justa snapshot of where you're doing
(28:22):
it that given time and eightdifferent domains of well being
and, and where there's somelower scores, it just gives you
a springboard of okay, why wouldthat be low? Why did I perceive
this as a low area? And arethere areas within that, that I
can zero in on and figure out sothat it's not causing me to
(28:43):
stumble, or it's not an obstacleand really kind of getting my
life going in the direction Iwant it to go? Because I think
without purpose, it's verydifficult to want to look at
well being. And if you're not,well, it's very difficult to
pursue purpose. So we try to putthose together. It just makes
sense that you can't have onewithout the other. So that's
(29:06):
kind of became the hub of whatwe're doing, not only with the
spouses, but the veterans aswell. That's the angle we're
taking with them as well, thatwe were drawn out. Don has used
the example of as this, thespouse in the relationship here.
So often the maypole, everythingextends out from you, everybody,
you stand still so everybody canmove around you right. And we we
(29:27):
realized that when we wereleaning heavily into purpose, we
have these families who havetransitioned out and we've got a
spouse and we're talking aboutyou know, what, what's really
purposeful for me, where do youwant to and people talk about
oh, find your purpose. What areyou going to do next? And we
recognize that when your purposeis I'm trying to get through the
(29:47):
day. Do I have the objectwithout choking you?
Do I have the the shin guardsand the apple slices and the
what do I have? I am just tryingto get to eight o'clock tonight,
with everybody's homework doneand everything like you. If you
ask any mom, spouse partner, youknow, like, what matters most to
(30:12):
you is that everybody in my lifeis taken care of. Great, as
cliche as it sounds, how do westrap on your own oxygen mask so
that you can continue to be thatmaple, because at the maypole
collapses is done. Now you'reright, we're all in trouble.
Now, how do we talk meaningfullyand balanced about what it is to
(30:36):
take care of yourself? And I'mnot saying, you know, hey, let's
train for a marathon.
Natalie (30:42):
My knees can't do it.
Right?
Unknown (30:44):
I'm not No, I just walk though. Right? We laugh and I
and I say, you know, just thisparticular time, in space in my
life, when things kind of gotreally bad. And we were dealing
with behaviors and things thatyou didn't understand, from both
of us. And lots of unresolvedissues that are just part of
(31:06):
this life. I say, you know, Ihad started in therapy and
started doing all these things.
And, but I needed to move. Ineeded that, you know, like, I
wanted the therapist to be likea doctor's appointment, there's
a brain, there's a sap and thepill.
Natalie (31:20):
So like a true military person, like, have we gotten to
the end yet or not, right?
Unknown (31:24):
We've got to go, we got to do, we're moving out. So my
need to do something was like,Okay, I need a, I don't know
what this mindfulness is, Idon't know what this health and
well being, I don't know whatany of that mess is, of the
magazines. I'm reading standingin the grocery store line. But
I'm gonna start somewhere. And Istarted with y'all, this was
basic, I'm gonna floss my teethevery night. And I'm gonna brush
(31:48):
for those two minutes everynight like that. It was that
basic, right? I'm gonna go getmyself a Sonicare toothbrush.
And I'm gonna get the mid flatflat floss. And I'm going to
give myself three whole minutesevery night that I am not going
to let go up. My dentist lovesme, by the way.
Natalie (32:07):
Well, you do have great teeth in case, get on Zoom to
see cat's teeth, thank you.
Unknown (32:13):
But that was kind of like somebody that understands
like, hey, that's, that's justas basic as you can get. I'm
trying to remember to eat and totake a shower, and to not hurt
anybody I love because all ofthem really tight. And having
some of the understand that inthe context of the military
experience, you know? And thenrecognizing, okay, like Don, and
(32:37):
I've said, these are ourstories. What is the person that
married the veteran? Thatdoesn't understand? Wow,
November's are really hard, notbased on that Iraq deployment,
or that Afghanistan? What doesthat what does that person go to
have understanding?
Well, they don't necessarily seethe inception in the why, you
(32:57):
know, we're at least I feel likewhen you're in it from the
beginning, it's like, well, youcan see how it unfolded. Right?
Oh, it's, oh, it's March. Allright. Now, now I get it.
Natalie (33:09):
Well, and it's exactly that exactly that I think, I
think it's really important forfolks to remember again, that
while your spouse was in themilitary, and so were you. And
that there, it was a significantfor month for them, and to be
mindful that it was asignificant month for you.
(33:31):
Because while they were going,you were staying, and you had
change, and that and that isevery time we as humans, we love
change not. And so we likepredictability and stability.
And military does not offerthat. They offer predictability
and structure and policy andprocedures. But you're moving,
(33:51):
you're this You're that I mean,at least you're like well, at
least every two years, we knowwe're going somewhere else. So
that's kind of predictable. ButI think about the loss that you
have because you lost yourspouse for a window of time. And
then when they come back, you'relike, Whoa, you're coming back
into my routine. And you'reasking me to change my routine
that the kids and I had gottendown, Marcin, our younger sister
(34:14):
wish she was here to be able tospeak to that and how it was for
her in the Air Force. That thatchange in routine
Unknown (34:20):
is hard. It is and the absolutely the assimilation with
that is much harder than gettingused to them being away. But you
know, we've had the discussionbefore as well whether there's
an element of grief almost thatnot only just for the physical
loss of them being home, butthen the grief of them coming
(34:42):
back and not being quite exactlywhat left or the person you felt
like you married to that'schanged and it's morphed and
some of it may come back some ofthem may not. But there's a
level of of that kind of longingfor what we had prior to this
(35:04):
whole mess kicking off? So I
Natalie (35:08):
can totally relate to that before and then the after
Ryan, your new normal and thatyou shifted your normal every
time that how many times did youhave to shift into a new normal,
right? And you think about thestable
Unknown (35:23):
especially when kids were involved, you had to be the
stable in the middle of all theunstable. And so always okay,
you know, my laugh, I've toldKat this I got a Christmas card
from my son a couple of yearsago, he's in his 20s. And it
just said to the one person inthe family that hasn't worried
us at one point or another.
Natalie (35:44):
Well, and that's that's I mean, but that's, that's a
that's a mama. That's theThat's, it is it is. And I hate
to say it's a stereotypicalrole, but it is the
stereotypical role that thewomen are like we are I love the
Big Fat Greek Wedding where, youknow, the husband is the head,
but I am the neck. Yeah. And Iand I turn the head.
Unknown (36:05):
Yes, right. Right, man, roll if I'm not there. That's
right. Your head will roll ifI'm not there.
Natalie (36:13):
Oh, my gosh, I'm gonna tell you, I feel like we've
gotten a little bit to churchtoday.
JJ (36:17):
I know, I have learned a lot. And I feel like I need like
that mental health and wellness,I could utilize their services.
So that needs something in thecivilian world for this? Well,
Natalie (36:27):
the whole health. You know, I think what got me was
when you said, the whole healthsurvey, and you all worked with
the VA and you it lines up withthe eight areas of wellness. And
I'm like, I felt like I need toget my hands on that I worked at
25 years in the mental healthfield. And I'm like, This is
what sounds like a lot ofcaregivers could benefit. I know
some of its going to leantowards the military and things
(36:48):
like that. But health andwellness is health and wellness.
It's just what's the situation?
And how do you modify theinstrument a little teeny bit to
say, this area or this area, butthe general areas of overall
health and wellness? How's itimpacting home? You know,
absolutely all that stuff. Ithink that is something that
could be really beneficial. I'dlike to get my hands on that
done.
Unknown (37:10):
Maybe find one in your inbox.
JJ (37:13):
I love it when I haven't been.
Natalie (37:16):
That would be awesome.
It just I just think that'sreally important. So because
you're right, sometimes thefirst step to helping you is an
awareness, like oh, man, andthen you see it and you're like,
Yeah,
Unknown (37:31):
right. We can get get so used to going through the day
now. And just your day to dayand you don't even take time to
think about how different areasof your life are affecting the
other areas. And everything'sinterconnected. Whether you want
it to be or not. It'sinterconnected. And not paying
(37:51):
attention. Things can startgoing south quickly. And we're
not paying attention to what'shappening and addressing it.
Absolutely.
Natalie (38:01):
So does the does. My last question, Jay, I'm sorry.
There was it's like it's like aregular podcast, because I'm
like, I love them. I don't playfavorites. So how long can
individuals be connected withyou? Is this like we're besties
forever, or you are you know,it's intermittent, almost like
therapy sometimes isintermittent. How's that work?
(38:21):
You do
Unknown (38:22):
a six month continuum.
Okay, and follow a little moreorganized for six months, but I
still work with veterans andspouses. Right. You know, I
started on in 2018. Working inthis space and worse, I still
get calls from people from yearsago. So yes, technically a six
monthformal aspect, and then the
(38:51):
informal is give us a call.
Yeah,right. We're not going anywhere.
So, yeah, gosh,
Natalie (39:00):
I just think about like, you know, cat, we talked
about this. In our phone calllike Jay, we, I remember when I
called you and I was like, Oh mygosh, I talked this awesome
woman named cat with vantagepoint. And like, we're besties
now she had no, she had no clue.
JJ (39:12):
I finally got a hold of her.
Natalie (39:15):
I was on the road. And I was like she's never get it
off the phone. And so she waslucky she had a group, but just
about, you know, there's so manyorganizations out there. And yet
there are alarmingly they'rehard to find. If you think about
it, it's not. And once you knowabout it, you're like, Hey, I've
been seeing you 30 times I'vepassed by your place 30 times,
(39:35):
but until you get this awarenessand so, you know, hopefully
anyone listening, please come onto our page and say, Hey, I know
about this group in my state,we've got to look like in my
state and this is and that way,Don and Kat get to use it as a
resource and say, Hey, you're inNorth Dakota or you're in New
York or you're here and youknow, and then how do we I think
(39:57):
there's such a great opportunityFor these groups to start coming
together, you know, I'd love tosee the military be able to say,
hey, we'd like to facilitate aspart of our aftercare program.
After as our post transitionprogram, we're going to set up
support groups, not only forveterans, but also for their
(40:18):
spouses and partners, regardlessof if you're in the caregiver
support program or not. Becausethat's, there's qualifications
for that. And you don't have tobe in the caregiver support
program to qualify toparticipate in vantagepoint. Is
that correct? or No? Perfect. Soeveryone's very inclusive.
Unknown (40:40):
Yeah, absolutely.
Absolutely. And we had talkedabout kind of on our on our
phone call, you know, one of thethings that I have is that
there, there are some wonderfulorganizations out there that are
serving veterans, there areother nonprofits like us,
they're doing great things withveterans. And I'm not going to I
won't name names, because thisis a wonderful organization here
in this state. And I think theyhave branches in other states
(41:03):
that are doing great things withveterans. And I was so excited
because it was such good stuff.
And I went to them. And I said,Wow, this is really amazing to
do anything for partners ofveterans. And their response
was, Well, absolutely. Once ayear, we have a picnic, and we
asked the spouses to join us andbring a covered dish. Yeah, it
(41:26):
was like, oh,
Natalie (41:29):
not so much. But thanks. That's what I was
looking for. I'd love to cookand
Unknown (41:36):
do something after everybody and come home
exhausted. Sounds like,
Natalie (41:40):
time. That's great. I'd love to be in support. Yeah, if,
you know,
Unknown (41:44):
if you're a veteran service organization, you know,
maybe have that conversationlike, wow, is there like is, are
the majority of veterans we'reserving, married? And what would
it look like to do somethingthat we
JJ (41:56):
hope you know? Absolutely,
Natalie (41:58):
that feels right, let's serve the whole unit. Everybody
understands the unit, themilitary. So
Unknown (42:04):
we say, you know, you hear people all the time and you
probably saw this, I think Isent you a clip. And it's one of
my things I say all the time,and you hear we love our
military families and theirfamilies. We love our veterans
and their families. And I thinkpeople really mean it. But what
is and their families mean?
What's the action there?
Natalie (42:21):
Huh? I like that. We went to church today on this
one. Felt like an educationalone. We're just having fun. I
love this. Be friends with Domgonna come and hang out with Don
and Kat down in South Carolina.
Absolutely. Remember, Virginiais for lovers and JJ is down in
the key salvo she's got a bettershe's got a better gig. She's on
the water. So you might want toyou might technically want to go
(42:41):
visit her. I got some mountains,though. So we got backs. And so
for sure. Thank you so much forcoming and sharing more about
Vantage Point Foundation. I'm soblessed that you guys were able
to be a part of this. And we'llhave more information about how
you can get in touch with theseladies in the show notes is
vantagepoint foundation.org. Andgo on and definitely check out
(43:06):
their website. And then again,here's our ask, we didn't ask
this from anybody else. If youhave other organizations that
are like vantage point or othermilitary supports that you want
to throw in, feel free to emailthem to us or put them in when
we're posting this in on oursocial medias. We would love
that.
Unknown (43:24):
Thank you so much.
JJ (43:25):
Thank you guys so much.
Unknown (43:27):
Thank you for bringing the awareness. We appreciate
Natalie (43:29):
you. Absolutely.
Thanks, guys until we talkagain. Thank you for listening
to our special series heroescaring for heroes. Please visit
our website to learn more aboutour featured organizations
supporting hero caregivers.
Before you go, please take amoment to leave us a review and
tell your friends about theconfessions podcast. Make sure
(43:51):
you connect with us on yourfavorite social media site to
stay up to date on all thingscaregiving. And of course, you
will find a video recording ofour episodes on the confessions
website and our YouTube Channel.
We'll see you next time when weconfess again
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