September 30, 2025 • 63 mins
Zack Demopoulos’s story begins with his upbringing as the proud son of Greek immigrants, whose journey to the United States instilled in him a deep sense of gratitude, resilience, and responsibility. He shares how his family’s experiences shaped his values and work ethic, from working in his father’s restaurant as a teenager to pursuing higher education and a successful corporate career. Zack’s life took a dramatic turn in 2006 when he was suddenly thrust into the role of caregiver for his father after a major stroke, all while balancing a demanding job and a young family of his own.
Throughout the episode, Zack candidly discusses the emotional, logistical, and financial challenges of caregiving, including the complexities of sibling dynamics and the importance of open communication and planning. He reflects on the mistakes and lessons learned during his father’s illness, such as the need to involve siblings, have difficult end-of-life conversations, and seek out resources—even when they seem limited. Zack’s journey didn’t end with his father; he later became a key support for his mother, applying the hard-earned wisdom from his earlier experiences to ensure her well-being and dignity.
Now, Zack channels his expertise and empathy into advocacy for working caregivers. Drawing on his background in HR, home care, and personal caregiving, he collaborates with his partner Selma to develop resources and support systems for employees balancing work and caregiving responsibilities. Zack’s story is a testament to the resilience of caregivers and the critical need for greater awareness, support, and compassion in both families and workplaces.
About Zack:
Zack Demopoulos along with his partner Selma Archer founded ieadvocates llc, or Invisible Employee Advocates, a consulting firm created to support working caregivers by working with their employers. He has over 36 years of diverse experience working in the corporate and small business environments. His expertise spans across sales management; executive leadership; human resources; diversity, equity, and inclusion; small business; board leadership; and caregiving. Zack along with his wife Phyllis founded and operated a home care agency for 13 years, helping over 500 families care for their family loved ones, and hiring over 700 professional caregivers to provide that care.
Zack is a caregiver advocate as well as a caregiver--long distance for his mother who is in a nursing home in Charlotte NC. He commutes 1-2 x every four months to spend time with her and be her advocate.
Zack with his wife, Phyllis, reside in New Jersey and spend significant time with their family who live nearby and include 2 rescue dogs, three adult children, their spouses, and 3 grandchildren.
Thank you to sponsor: CareScout
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Natalie (00:03):
Hey guys, it's your favorite sisters with the
Confessions of a reluctantcaregiver. Podcast. On the show,
you'll hear caregiversconfessing the good, the bad and
the completely unexpected.
You're guaranteed to relate, beinspired. Lead with helpful tips
and resources, and, of course,laugh. Now let's get to today's
confession. Hey, Jay, goodmorning. Good morning. You know
(00:29):
it's summer in the US, but I'mgoing to tell you right now,
it's chilly outside, and Iwasn't expecting that I've
decided to pull out my longsleeves. And also, if you're not
watching on our YouTube channel,also look like an episode of
Where's Waldo. And so this is myWaldo shirt.
JJ (00:51):
Scary, because this morning, I almost wore a striped shirt.
And when I got all this word andI was like, if she and I both
had on, oh my god, it
Natalie (00:59):
would have been bad.
Also, doubles as a candy cane.
Look.
Unknown (01:03):
This is our Christmas episode.
Natalie (01:05):
Welcome to Christmas in August. You know what? We have
the best person like, you knowhe's my best friend. Um, come
on. Don't know he's been my bestfriend for years, and when we
met him at the beginning, likethis is like Zach has been with
us since we really started, andhe was, remember that time he
was in a cast, yeah, thing, andhe's like, 1000 feet tall,
(01:31):
again, he's 1000 feet tall, andhe's an icon. He is. I mean,
honestly, everybody knows him,and to be able to finally get
him on the podcast. We corneredhim. He had no free will. You
know, clearly we were like,Dude, you got to come on our
podcast. We love you. You wantto let him talk? What do you
think? I guess we can. And thisfalls under the same episode of,
(01:54):
it's a boy. Let me do it. It's aboy. It is a boy. And I love
forgivers, yeah, because thereality is, is that there's
just, there's lots of malecaregivers out there. And I
think, again, like most generalcare caregivers in general,
they're underrepresented. And soand men are taking care of loved
(02:15):
ones just as much as the femalesare. And they're, they're on
their way up because, becauseyou have to some days. And so
this is what we're going to talkabout today. And so we're going
to get I'm so excited thatZach's here. So Jay, tell
everybody about our bestie.
JJ (02:27):
Zach, all right, this is my bestie. Zach, so first of all, I
get to say because I get totalk. I love our guest today.
And Natalie, get ready becausehe's my care crush. You know you
have, like, professional crush.
Zach is my care crush, and I cansay that because I know his
wife, Phyllis, and she's like,whatever you're gonna love me.
Phyllis, hey, Phyllis, so we'retalking to Zach demopoulos
(02:50):
today. So Zach is, like, Nataliesaid he's one of the first
people that we met and heard,because you'll hear Zach like
he's here, his radio announcer.
He was the one of the what wasthe first care conference that
we were at, and since then,Zach, you have been a resource,
but you've you've been a mentor,but you're an amazing friend,
and you're a champion for us,and we really appreciate that.
(03:13):
So of course, Zach has a storylike everyone else that we
talked to in 2006 he was draftedinto caregiving for his father
in less than three minutes. Likemany of us in a crisis today, he
continues the role with his 95year old mother. I've shortened
these Natalie so I'm not telling
Natalie (03:31):
the whole story, because we already told it so
much. I'm sorry. Bye, bye. He'shad
JJ (03:35):
a diverse professional background, from corporate
positions to co founding andoperating a home care agency for
13 years with his wife. Onething that remains constant,
Zach is a huge care advocate.
You'll see that what he doestoday and well, basically I say,
You're a force to be reckonedwith, Zach, we are so excited to
have you. The crowd goes wild.
Unknown (03:56):
Good morning. Good morning. Good morning. Good
morning. Man. What an intro.
Gee, I'm gonna say that andlisten to that when I'm having
bad days. How's that?
JJ (04:07):
Oh, yeah. We can add music, a clapping band or something,
whatever you want.
Unknown (04:12):
Yeah, but I gotta tell you something. I was listening
to that I was this, I wasthinking of this striped
sandwich, you know, if you werewearing striped shirt. JJ, and
we know now he's wearing astriped shirt, if you're
watching this on YouTube, andI'm in the middle, we're talking
about a striped Greek uterosandwich, because I'm right in
the middle. And that that, thatis what's in my mind right now.
So it might take a lot for me toget that out of my mind.
Natalie (04:34):
It's okay. It's okay.
Now I'm just, I'm gonna stickwith my candy cane. I'm gonna be
thinking about fall weather, andthen better, then I'm like, Oh,
it's cold, but, you
Unknown (04:43):
know, I'm also thinking about Greek food for lunch.
Thanks, right? Well,
Natalie (04:48):
thank you. This is really awesome, though, where,
because I'm glad that youmentioned your Greek. I love
that. I mean, that's this, like,we're going to talk about, like,
really, this is my favoritepart, of course. Asking you tell
us start from the beginning youwere born. But we had the
opportunity to meet Zach inperson, and then we met him up
in his hood, up in New Jersey,when we were visiting another
(05:11):
friend of ours, Doreen, who weall met on LinkedIn, which is
really funny. And we went toDoreen marchetti's house, and we
all ate, and we ate so much foodand had so much fellowship, but
we get to learn more about Zach.
So I think, you know, key, thecornerstone of a piece of who we
are is where we come from, andto understand that, and then
that really informs of who willbe as adults. And I love Zach's
(05:34):
family, and so Zach, I want youto go ahead and tell us, start
from the beginning, kind ofpaint the picture of life and
work your way up to care.
Unknown (05:47):
My parents came over in a Greek boat in 1953 they
battled high seas and stormyweather. They only had a bag and
$2 in their pocket. First ofall, thank you so much for being
here. I am, like, honored I whenI met you two ladies, I thought
(06:09):
you were nuts, and I know forsure that you are, and I love
that about you, too. And thankyou also, on behalf of all
caregivers, on all the work youguys are doing, you are such
amazing. But I I am just honoredto know that you were I met you
guys in the beginning, and lookat you now. You guys are stars.
You're lighting it up, andyou're doing so much great work.
(06:29):
Also. Thank you for shouting outmale caregivers. I think that is
really important. I think wemales need to talk more. All
right. Get out from under thatrock. Get away from your pride.
There are many of us out there,so thank you for that as well.
Thank you for shouting out,because we do need to tell our
stories. We are not alone. Isee, I know you, Natalie, you
like my Greek roots. So I guessI just not to, hopefully not
(06:52):
bore your audience. But I willjust briefly say, you know, I am
a very proud son of Greekimmigrant parents. You know,
they came over, really, in the50s, not on a boat, but they did
come on a plane, but theyimmigrated without a word of
English, and they found whateverjobs they could get. My dad was
a dishwasher. My mother workedin a factory stuffing, candy,
(07:14):
ice cream cones in boxes, youknow, back before they had
machinery doing that, right?
Yeah. And so they struggled veryhard to raise us in a in a
country where we hadopportunity. I know that sounds
corny, but I am really, reallyjust grateful to them. I am the
youngest of three. We'll talkabout siblings later. Yeah, I'm
sure we'll get into siblingdynamics, and I hope my sister
(07:36):
brother don't watch this, butwe'll talk about a little bit
about that, but because Greek,Greek families are so weird and
so complex. But I love them. Ilove my Greek family. But, you
know, my father and mother cameinto the states, actually in 72
we immigrated into Canada, andso I have a quite a diverse
experience, which I'm verygrateful for. I've lived over in
(07:57):
seven different area spots. Butwhen my father finally landed in
a spot with Charlotte, NorthCarolina, shout out to
Charlotte, where I grew up. Youknow, he did get a restaurant,
and he did name it, Zach's,Zach's hamburgers, and it's my
favorite. It's infamous, by theway, because every time I would
(08:17):
fly to Charlotte, I'd be sittingnext to somebody, and they'd ask
me who I am. We'd bring upZach's hamburgers, and I go,
I've been there, so it's likeinfamous, you know, and but I
the reason why that is soimportant me is I worked in a
restaurant from 13 years old to21 and I learned everything
about life and business from myparents. My mother was in there,
(08:39):
my father was in there. Andmaybe that's why I'm so
dedicated to being a caregiver.
I don't know. I mean, you know,we probably need Barry and Julie
to help us with thatpsychoanalysis, but we shout out
to Barry Julie too, by the way,but I just feel like, you know
that I owe them, because whatthey did for me, they really,
(09:02):
really created opportunity. Iwas only one of three that went
to college. I remember when Iwas about 15 years old, I turned
to my dad when I was mopping onenight, and I worked about six
days a week with him afterschool and all summer for eight
years. I mean, that's what Idid, and I loved it, but I
remember I said to him, Dad, Ican't wait to have a restaurant
like you. And he said, It isstupid. Oh, you think I came all
(09:24):
the way from Greece so you canown a restaurant is you will get
an education, you're gonna get agood job, and you promise me you
never, never have a restaurant.
So that's why I don't have arestaurant, even though, wow,
back then I do want one. So, soI became a caregiver for my dad,
as you mentioned. JJ, I wasdrafted. You know, my father was
a hard working immigrant, justlike, like many of the Greeks
(09:47):
that came over, was stubborn,never went to a doctor, and it
was a miracle that he never gotsick. He smoked two packs of
cigarettes a day. He definitelyhad hypertension, probably all
kind. Of other stuff, but at 78he had his first major illness,
and he had a stroke, and it wasa bad one, and he fell, fell
down and had a severe stroke.
(10:10):
And my brother called me, andI'm in New Jersey, and I got one
of my biggest jobs ever. This isa dream job, executive HR for
the CFO of Pfizer, and I'mliving the dream, and I get this
phone call. I'm in the middle ofa meeting with my when my boss
actually I didn't take the firstcall, but when he called again
and again, I stepped out in thehallway and my brother was
crying and saying, You need toget down here. And that was a
(10:32):
three minute phone call. Neverforget, Dad's had a huge stroke.
You've got to get down here. Hedidn't know what to do. My
sister's in Canada, and I gotdrafted as a caregiver, and I
immediately did it the very thatevening, I jumped on a plane,
didn't tell anybody what I wasdoing, except my wife, and went
down there for three days. Youknow all about this, ladies, you
(10:53):
know? Yeah, you got to start theminute someone gets
hospitalized. You have to startplanning that transition of
care. You have to start thinkingabout discharge. I was clueless.
I didn't know a thing aboutcaregiving. I didn't know a
thing about hospitalizations. I00, knowledge. I learned it as I
went baptismal by fire. Made anumber, a number of mistakes,
(11:14):
including pissing my brother andsister off. Can I say piss on
the on this show? Sorry, we'reclean,
Natalie (11:19):
so I'll just beep that out. Be Did you
JJ (11:22):
notice something that? Well, hold on, he he skipped a big
part. We're stopping him rightthere. He skipped all this, all
this. You had a little bit ofstuff that happened before that.
Like, I think you had a familyin there. So I want to know,
like,
Unknown (11:35):
You got
Natalie (11:36):
married, you had some kids, like, beautiful kids. I
don't even know how old he wasat this point, I'm thinking he
just went 21 to nothing.
Unknown (11:43):
Yeah. I mean, did you leave your kid? I mean, was
Phyllis taking care of the wholefamily?
Natalie (11:49):
Phyllis, no, and she's a powerhouse, so everybody has
to know about her, yeah,
Unknown (11:55):
beautiful Greek love story. I'm married to my wife
for 38 years. She was she wasblind when she married me, and
she obviously very desperate,and so, yeah, so we, my wife and
I, Phyllis is amazing. I mean,I'm just so blessed. We're
married 38 years. We have threebeautiful children. There. They
(12:17):
all have beautiful spouses. Ihave three grandchildren,
Natalie (12:20):
beautiful too. Thank you.
Unknown (12:23):
We're blessed. I mean, we're not perfect, by far, we're
not perfect, but you know, weare blessed. And you know what?
Thank you for bringing that up.
Because, you know, incaregiving, I guess I got to
keep bringing it back tocaregiving. You know, when I
jumped on that plane at nightand left, you know, I didn't
think about my family. I didn'tthink about my job. I didn't
think about any of that. And forthe first couple of trips, it
(12:44):
was okay. My kids didn't reallycare, because they're used to
dad getting on a plane and goingon business trips, and Phyllis
is used to it. In fact, Phyllisand I said Our marriage was
really good, because she knewexactly when I was the party and
Natalie (12:59):
when I was arriving.
The best relationship is whenthey leave.
Unknown (13:03):
That's right. In fact, there was times like winter,
when's your flight leaving. Imean, I'm 55 I was like, Yes,
oh my god. I mean, I think thattoy was the secret of our
marriages. We had, we had a lotof fun the night I left, away a
lot of fun the night I cameback. So it's just G rated, or
(13:24):
is this
Natalie (13:25):
totally fine, but it's totally fine. It's that's
normal, you know? But here's thequestion. Here's like, when you
got that call, how old were thekids? Like, where were you?
Because you said, from a from aprofessional standpoint, you're
running hot. You're running hot,you're doing great stuff. You
You're you're moving yourcareer. Because, I mean, you
guys are up in New Jersey, yourdad and your mom and dad are
(13:46):
down in North Carolina, or northCathy, Lackey and and so. But
how old were the kids? It givesus kind of a frame of reference,
yeah. So 2006
Unknown (13:56):
December 14, is when my father, my brother called, and
my father had a stroke, and myoldest is six years old. My next
little middle son, Dimitri.
Shout the Dimitri, he rocks. AndCosta, you. He rocks. He's, uh,
he was, he was three, andAnastasia's one and a half. Wow.
You have little Don't, don't saythat about me. Say that about
(14:20):
Phyllis. I just left, yeah,just, you know, I went six times
to Charlotte in six months, sixtrips in six months. I went back
and forth, you know, all myexpense, all my, you know, deal
with it. One of those trips,Phyllis actually came down with
me and to help me, because Ireally, I really didn't know
what the hell I was doing. I'llbe honest, we I, I really
(14:42):
didn't. And Phyllis is just Godsaid, she's just got a natural,
you know, Mother caring spiritto her, and she can handle my
mother, who really well themother in law. But, you know, we
went down for a whole week inone of those six trips, and we
had my father walking with acane. And we were we, you know,
we had a lot of fun. You know,we made the trips to the doctors
(15:02):
and everything with them,because my mom didn't drive. My
brother ran a restaurant thewhole time, so he couldn't do
anything. And my sister's inCanada, so we had my father
walking with a cane andeverything. And I will tell you
in so confessions, you know,guilt. Confessions, I'll tell
you one thing, you know, afterour last trip down here, I
didn't go back down for threemonths because, I mean, I was
(15:23):
burned out. And my job, I gottabe honest, you my boss was a
little, it was, it was, he wasgetting a little irritated with
me. You know, this was a highlevel job, and we had a lot of
stuff going on with Pfizer. Andno offense to him, because back
in 2006 you know, I don't, Idon't expect males to understand
this. But one point he even toldme, do you need to keep going
(15:45):
down her kitchen is intosomething your wife
Natalie (15:49):
could do. That's not uncommon, though. And I think
here's the thing, spoiler alert,probably even today, probably
even today, that that commentsomebody's mind mouth, I hope
not. But you know, here's theother thing I want to take a
break first. Break for a secondbecause I want to come back in,
but I want to ask you about I dowant to continue talking about
work and because you're in ayou're in a position that that
(16:12):
could potentially, potentiallyimpact you professionally from a
long term growth standpoint, aswell as financially impacting
your family, and what are yougoing to do? So we're going to
take a break. We'll be rightback
Unknown (16:26):
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JJ (17:01):
right, everybody, we are back with Zach. Zach, honestly,
we went through the first break.
I mean, I'm like, Oh my gosh. Wehave to talk really fast. But
Zach is fantastic. So we'vegotten to this point this, this
is amazing, where actually yourboss says, well, can't your wife
do this? So I too, like Natsaid, I'm amazed that, first of
(17:21):
all, you're in an HR position,and this is kind of, this is
kind of a well, why do you haveto, you know? Why do you need to
care? So we want to talk aboutthat further. And then I also
want to make sure we go back toyou went down, made decisions,
and your brother and sisterwere, like, not entirely, you
know, excited about it. Maybethat's a little sibling, you
know, interaction. Let's talkabout work again. Let's go back
(17:42):
to that. And as Natalie said,talk about the impact that it
had on your career. Go ahead nowwell,
Natalie (17:48):
and also the fact it's 2006 how much you're using
video? We're in 2025 and we'renow, we're like, I mean, look,
we're recording remotely like wedidn't have that like, not
especially in behavioral health.
So what? What kind ofaccommodations Let's go. Let's
dig a little deeper into that.
Unknown (18:06):
Okay, okay, look at JJ.
She wants to get to the dirt.
You know, she heard me about thesibling issues, so you want some
dirt? Oh, don't worry. So Imentioned to you I felt guilt,
right? So here's the reason whyI felt guilt, because after I
left with Phyllis that last wespent a week down there. I came
back three months later, and myfather had thrown his cane away.
He was sitting in a wheelchair.
Never got out of it again forfive years, and I just felt
(18:28):
guilt because nobody took him toappointments. No Fault to
anybody in particular. It's justthe systems. And to your point,
we just didn't know what wedidn't know at the time and and
I didn't have any resources. AndI'll tell you, you made a good
point. I'm in freaking HR, and Ididn't know where to go. And
somebody actually turned to meand said, Have you called the
(18:49):
AP? And I go, what? Because youdon't, you're in HR, you didn't
even know what EAP is. Alwaysthought that that's something
that you use in emergency.
You're in an emergency. Zach,you're really struggling.
Because I was, I really was soupset when I went down and saw
my dad in a wheelchair. Mymother was trying to take care
of him. I'm like, I got to getthem some help. And so I did
(19:11):
call EAP and no offense to AP,or maybe a little bit of offense
to AP, because you at the end ofthe day, they're just, yeah,
yeah. I got my beef with them,you know, they could do a better
job. You know, as an HR person,I will state this as a fact.
It's the most underutilized,overspent benefit organizations
have today. So come on, guys, weneed to do a little bit better
job of that we really do. And Imean, partner with the AP and so
(19:34):
that they can, you know, reallystep up on the caregiving piece.
I would hope it's improved since2006 before when I hear it
hasn't but when I called the AP,all they did for me was send me
a list of home care agencies.
There were 15 of them in NorthCarolina. I picked the top one.
I called them blind. Didn't knowwhat to ask. I gave them my
credit card, and they basicallytook two weeks non refundable
deposit from me. My mother firedthem at. After the second day,
(19:59):
because they insulted her, theywalked in and go, Look, we're
not gonna listen to you. He'sour patient. We're not listening
to you. And she goes, Oh yeah.
Well, listen to this. Get out ofmy house. And so that was two
weeks, and, you know, they kindof again, it would have been
helpful to know what questionsto ask to learn more about home
care. To your point, Natalie, Ihad no resources to go to. And
(20:23):
ironically, after I left Pfizer,what did I do? I went and I
started a home care agency.
Because of that experience,Phyllis and I ran one for 13
years so, but there weren't alot of resources. Not many
people were talking about it.
Listen, you gotta understandsomething. I came from HR,
right? And I was in HR in thelate 80s, early 90s, we were
(20:43):
battling how to deal with peopleleaving for maternity leave and
not being discriminated against,and not being penalized and
giving them benefits. I notkidding, ladies, and I know you
agree. I know you you believethis. I would sit in talent
planning meetings, where theywould say, Well, let's take her
(21:04):
off the the track, the careertrack, because she just had a
child. I mean, the heck are youtalking about? Are you kidding
me? I mean, right off the bat,they put an X on her because she
just had a child. So we've comea long way with children. We've
now got to focus on on eldercare as well, and adult children
(21:24):
with with they need care. So youwant to talk about siblings? Is
that right?
Natalie (21:30):
JJ, Well, it's interesting that Yeah, I think
we totally should talk aboutsiblings, because that's fun.
You know. Let me ask you onemore question, though, did you
talk about your care and thethings that were going on with
your colleagues at work?
Unknown (21:45):
No, no, not at all. I did not. First of all, did you
get the part we were Greekimmigrants. You know, we're very
proud people. We don't share ourlaundry with anybody outside the
house the family. When I dideventually hire that home care
agency? My mother wasembarrassed. She was afraid who
was going to find out. Shedidn't want people coming into
(22:05):
her house so that they could seewhat's going on in the house.
They didn't, they didn't go backto church because they didn't
want to see dad in a wheelchair.
Very proud, proud people, and Iwas the same way as the way I
was raised, very, very silent wedidn't, we didn't even say, you
know, I love you publicly, youknow, you know to each other.
So, so yeah, that that you knowthat I didn't tell anybody at
(22:31):
work. In fact, you guys have metSelma, my partner, Selma Archer,
she and I worked at Pfizertogether. We didn't know each
other's caregiver story, andhere, you know, but 10 years
later, we met and had aconversation. It was an hour and
a half conversation. Wereconnected after 10 years on
LinkedIn, and she tells hercaregiver story, I'm telling
(22:52):
mine. And we looked at eachother like, how come we didn't
know this about each other? Andwe're like, I never told a soul
at work. I didn't tell my boss,I didn't tell anybody in HR,
except that one phone call toEAP. Wow. Now with my mother as
a caregiver, a caregiver from amother years later, I certainly
have told the whole world anddid podcasts about it, and I've
(23:13):
learned a lot from my mistakes,and it like to think I'm a
better caregiver from thatexperience.
Natalie (23:20):
Yeah, so let's talk about so you have this incident
with your dad. Happen yourbrother calls you and was like,
You're gonna have to get downhere. Stat, now is Brother
oldest or the sister? The oldest
Unknown (23:31):
brother is 60 months older than me, and sister is
three years older than me.
Natalie (23:35):
Ah, so the girl isn't that interesting, like she moved
to Canada. So what was theconversation like with you guys
internally? Because Emily, JJand I always have internal
conversations, like we'retalking about, what are we going
to do? I mean, because I knowyou're talking about this stuff,
like, what are we gonna do withDad, we're gonna do with mom.
Yeah, and, and what's theplanning sound like, and
(23:57):
disbursement of duties?
Unknown (24:00):
Was there a plan confession time?
Natalie (24:05):
Because sibling dynamics, you know, this is a
total dumpster fire, if it, youknow, siblings can be a dumpster
fire. JJ, brought out herdumpster
Unknown (24:16):
you I love that term.
You guys use dumpster fire. Ilove it. So Bessie and George,
my sister and brother.
Confession time, I asked foryour forgiveness. I apologize. I
totally did not keep you in theloop. I did not talk to you. I
felt like I had this. I canhandle this and and also to the
(24:37):
priest who's listening to Ireally just asked for
forgiveness because I reallyscrewed up. I made, I made some,
some bad mistakes, because ourDynamics before my sister and I,
our dynamics are strong. I lovemy sister dearly, and I would do
anything for her, and she tookcare of us. We were young kids,
but she was not in a position tojump on a plane and come down
(24:57):
here and help us out. Mybrother. And I have always had a
rivalry. I think, ever since Igrew taller than him in the 10th
grade, he kind of had it out forme a little bit.
Natalie (25:06):
So he's five foot one and you're six foot 10.
Unknown (25:10):
No, no, no, no, no, but, but, you know, you get the
point. You know, metaphorically,I think he's five foot one. So,
so we've learned, you know, thethree of us have all learned us
have all learned in ourcaregiving experiences that
including your siblings is veryimportant, especially if the
dynamics aren't there to beginwith, if you're going to have a
(25:30):
plan, which I did not, and ifyou're going to try to reach out
and get help. So I would say thefirst six years of caring for
helping my mother care for myfather. I totally sucked at
keeping my siblings. I had a lotof issues with my brother. I
kept my sister out of it,thinking that she couldn't help
anyway, and that made things somuch worse, to the point where,
(25:56):
when my father unfortunatelyfell many times, he just refused
to wear those slips, slipresistant socks. He always wore
those black nylon socks that hewore when he worked at the
restaurant. And he just and hewas stubborn. He would jump out
of the recliner, grab thewalker, put himself in the
wheelchair and go to thebathroom, and try to go to the
bathroom himself and not ask formy mom. And he finally had that
(26:18):
one fatal slip in the bathroomwhere he broke his back and, and
it was terrible. It was I wasactually in Greece for the first
time in 10 years with my family.
I was only five days in, and Iget that phone call again for my
brother, once again, he'scrying, and he said, You got to
get over here. And, and I left.
(26:39):
And, and this was a bad one, andmy father only, only lasted six
months. But I'll never forgetwhen we were in the hospital,
and the doctor or the socialworker and the and the pastor
come meets with us and says,Look, you don't have end and end
of life wishes here. You have noDNR. You've got none of this
(27:01):
typical, you know, caregivingfamily on a caregiving journey.
I don't know what the hellthey're doing, right? We don't
have any of these importantlegal documents in place that
are necessary. And my brotherand sister my mother are
listening to this conversation,and they don't want any part of
it. They, you know, they thinkthis is sacrilegious to talk
about end of life, and to speakto a person and say, Do you want
(27:26):
them to unplug the machine ifyou're no longer living and so
it fell on me. I don't know whyit fell on me. And my brother
and sister were like, like,thought I was an evil person.
Maybe my sister not as much. Butmy brother, walked out. He
walked out, goes, I cannot dothis. You You do. You guys,
figure it out. And he, I don'tblame him. I mean, he just
(27:48):
emotionally couldn't handle it.
And so I had the conversationwith my father. I sat down with
him, and, you know, he and Ibuilt a very strong relationship
in the many years I worked withhim. I just have nothing but the
utmost respect all thesepictures back here, most of them
are of him in the restaurant andall that stuff. And I know he's
my huge inspiration, as well asmy mother, but I had a very,
very important conversation withhim. Lasted 30 minutes, and he
(28:11):
told me his wishes, and we gotthem documented. He says, I do
not want to live if I'm going tolive this way. And he looked at
me and said, You're going to behonest with me, right? I go,
Yeah, I'll be honest with you,Pops, don't worry. So he did end
up going into rehab after that.
Never got out of rehab, and thenhe got re hospitalized again. He
(28:35):
was in a bad shape, and I wentand saw him. I went saw him on
his name day, which Greeks, bythe way, they don't celebrate
birthdays. They celebrate namedays. So his, my dad's name is
Dimitri, like my son's name,actually, my son's name, Demetri
is like my father's name, right?
I named him Dimitri, and I tookmy son, Dimitri, and we went
just a surprise visit in thehospital with him. And I'll
never forget this. We're inthere and and not to get really
(28:57):
dark here, but this isimportant. I can't emphasize how
important it is to have theseconversations with the people
that we love. Somebody in thefamily has to do it, so I'm
curious. I'm gonna throw aquestion at you guys. JJ,
Natalie and your other sister,who's the one who's having those
direct conversations with mom.
But I had to look at my dad, andhe asked me a question that I'll
(29:20):
never forget. He goes. I wantyou to be honest with me, am I
ever going to be able to comehome? Am I ever going to be able
to walk again? Because they endup putting two rods in his back
in hopes that he would getbetter. But I met with many of
the physicians. I met with allhis all his support staff, and
they basically told him he'llnever walk again. You'll need to
be on support systems in anursing home. I gave him the
(29:43):
right i This is what I said tohim, No, Dad, there's no way,
unless you know if you did comehome, this is what it will take.
This is what it will be. But youwon't. You're, I don't think
you'll be able to come home. Hegoes, and he looked at me, goes,
well, thank you. He died threedays later. He went to the rehab
center. And he died in his sleepon his own, and I, I'm grateful
(30:04):
for that. I'll be honest withyou, yeah, but who among you
sisters does that? Does the sothe guest turns at the table on
you, who the among you threesisters is the one who has that
direct conversation with yourparents?
JJ (30:19):
So I had the the honor of going through the DNRs and all
of that with mom, and that wasawful, like to have to bring
that up, the all of that, andshe did not want to participate
in that, so, but we had to dothat. And that was in 2019 and
she's changed the she's changedit once, so, but I think we all,
(30:41):
you know, she says, When can Ileave? You know, she always
wants to change her residency.
And that's all of us, Mom, youwe can't leave. You, you know,
Natalie (30:49):
yeah, and we equally say that. I mean, that's the
thing. So while JJ had thatconversation, and I think the
important thing is that betweenthe three of us, we share when
those conversations happen, andwe reinforce, we do not
undermine one another in thoseconversations, to try to give, I
say this respectfully, falsehope, because our mom's not
(31:13):
going to be able to leaveskilled nursing. And so as much
as we say, you know, mom willsay to us, I really want to
leave. We want you to too, butwe just can't, because there's
not enough human capital andresource to be able to be able
to support you in the home. It'sjust it is just too much and and
(31:36):
then for us, when you're directwith mom, it makes it makes it a
little bit easier to becausethat way you're not like, oh,
well, you know, maybe, oh, we'llthink about it like, I don't. I
think you're right. I don'tthink you give false hope. I
think you have to say, this isour reality. This is where we're
at. And I'm gonna to be reallyblunt, my parents didn't plan
(31:59):
the way they needed to. And Idon't think when you come from a
rural from rural areas, butdoesn't really matter. Most
folks live paycheck to paycheck.
We grew up, my parents livepaycheck to paycheck. There
wasn't this massive savings. Andthat's when people relied on
pensions. And they relied onthey thought their retirement
from their company where, youknow, my dad's pension was going
to was going to do it. And, youknow, the way that they chose,
(32:22):
which we did not know about theway they chose to do the
disbursement of our dad'spension. They didn't expect our
dad to die first. The plan forthem was not that. And God was
like, that's cute. I'll showyou. And, and so when dad died
three years after he retired,and he was 55 when he retired, I
mean, and so they they front endloaded, because Dad always
(32:44):
worked side jobs. He's alwayshad second and third things that
he was doing, rather rebuildingcars or painting cars or things
that he loved to do, and doingsiding on houses, that's how
he's going to earn supplementalfunds. And then dad wasn't
there, and so, and then they ranthrough the front end side. So I
think it's, you know, and I knowthat you talk about this, you
(33:05):
and Selma probably talk aboutthis from a work standpoint,
you've probably gotten into thisis you also can't bankrupt
yourself, and so you have tofind this fine line of how much
support can I give to myparents, while also not it
negatively impacting me and myspouse, because it's not just
me. If I was single, that'sprobably a different, a
different financial story. Butwhen you have a spouse and you
(33:29):
have kids, you have to thinkthat. I think that shifts the
way that you think about things.
Yeah, so I'm gonna, I want totake a break here real quick,
because we're at that breakpoint, and then we'll be right
back. We're going to continueon.
Unknown (33:42):
Care forward is a technology platform that
connects volunteers withseniors, the disabled and those
with chronic or complex healthconditions, offering support
like transportation, home visitsand more details
online@careforward.ioAll right, everybody. Zach is
back. I love
Natalie (34:02):
it. Exactly. That I want
JJ (34:06):
to make sure so I have like so we have continued to have so
many questions for Zach. So Iwant to make sure that my I
guess I have a big question,because we talk so much, and you
advocate so much for working andworking caregivers. Near at what
stage, first of all, during yourfather's illness, before he
passed, did you and Phyllis ownthe home care business? And if
(34:28):
you did during those stages, wasit different being self employed
versus being corporatelyemployed?
Unknown (34:35):
Yeah, all right, so that's a great question. So my
father had a stroke of 2006 hepassed away in 2011 I started
the home care with Phyllis in2009 so we did have the home
care and it's funny, you saythat because I had a home care
business and I couldn't convincemy mother to get help in
Charlotte with a home carebusiness that was part of my
(34:58):
franchise system. I even broughtthe only. Her of comfort care.
We had a comfort care business.
Shout out to comfort care, and Ibrought him, Phil, as his name,
great guy. I bring him into thehouse. My mom's giving him
baklava, the pastries. She'sbeing real polite, and we're
having a 30 minute conversation.
You know, my dad's sitting inthe corner just shaking his head
(35:19):
because he knows this isn'tgoing anywhere. And with my in
Phil, God bless his soul, he'ssuch a great guy. We walk into
the driveway. When he leaves, hegoes, I thought that went really
well, and I go, now that waslike the tiger smiling at you,
about to eat whatever you havein your hand.
You got two pieces of baklava.
You're not gettinganything. That's That's it. And
(35:39):
my mother never, never used homecare until it was too late to
use home care. So that's whatwas really frustrating. But
yeah, we ran that business. Nowyou ask a great question, is it
easier when, when you know whenyou're running your own business
and and JJ, you, you made such agreat point about that when we
talk to you for our stories fromreal caregivers, working
(36:04):
caregivers, and thank you forthat, both of you for doing that
for us, for someone on ourwebsite. But no, it's not easier
in the beginning. It might feeleasier because you do have the
luxury of, oh, I can break away.
But guess what was happening? Mybusiness suffered big time
because I was no longer I was onthe I was the marketing,
(36:27):
building the clientrelationship, developing the
business side, and Laura Phylliswas the back office, and all the
hiring and training. And so whenI would leave, I'd leave for
three days, four days, payingout of my own pocket. You know,
I would travel. I stayed in ahotel for, you know, reasons we
talked about earlier, because Isold my mother's home, and so
(36:50):
all these expenses were addingup, and I would come back, and
it took 24 hours to try tocleanse yourself from from the
emotion that you're goingthrough and from all the issues.
And guess what? You also havefollow up phone calls, because
when you're down there, you'retrying to meet as many people as
possible, right? The executivedirector, you're meeting with
(37:12):
the director of nursing, you'remeeting with medication
specialist, dietitian. You meetwith all these people that may
or may not see you on the spot,and then you have follow up
visits with them. You've got thesocial worker, you got so many
people you got to talk to. Andif you don't see them, they're
returning your calls when youcome back to work. And you
meanwhile, you're trying to hitthe ground running with all
(37:33):
these client issues that Philsays, Yeah, I'll come back. I
will have literally 12 messages.
I mean, anyone who's familiarwith the home care business,
it's a 24/7 dumpster fire thatyou're trying to put out all the
time, right? So it's true, Igotta tell you, when we say in
our business and Natalie, JJ,you know this very well, because
you preach this, caregivingtakes a physical, mental,
(37:55):
emotional and financial toll onyou, I didn't see it at first. I
would say, in the first sixmonths of going down to
Charlotte back and forth, Ididn't see it. But man, oh man,
the next two years, I paid areally big price for it, a
really big price for it, and mybusiness did suffer. And so I
highly suggest to caregivers outthere, even in your own
(38:20):
business. To your point earlier,Natalie, about, you know whether
you're single or not, and JJ, toabout having a plan. You've got
to have a plan. You've got tohave provisions in place. You've
got to have people that you'regoing to focus on. And hopefully
you can do it early in thisjourney, because I didn't do it
my first time around. Idefinitely did it with my
(38:42):
mother. I really, yeah,
Natalie (38:46):
so let's, let's say lessons learned. Because I'm
looking at our time, I'm like,gosh, we could talk like, I know
we got to talk about hisbesties. Oh God, you have to
talk about your mom. Becausehere's the thing, I love, that
your mom is 95 so you got goodgenes.
Unknown (39:05):
Her skin looks better than mine. I'm not kidding, she
looks fantastic.
Natalie (39:09):
Yeah, tell you right now. So, so what you know? You
know we talked with our friendlike it was like with Paul Jay,
if you remember him pasta, Ithink it's wait. I'm gonna
butcher.
Unknown (39:20):
Paul's last potassium.
Thank you.
Natalie (39:23):
And so he learned from caring for his parents, and one
that I think his dad was first,and then his mom and and he
learned, so what were the thingsthat you did differently when it
came to supporting your mom,because your dad passes, and
then, then what happens? Becausenow your mom is solo and she
doesn't drive you mentioned, andso nothing says like, well,
(39:47):
that's like a fart in church.
Unknown (39:49):
How am I
Natalie (39:50):
going to get her around? Am I just going to send
her an Uber the whole time? AndI live in New Jersey?
Unknown (39:55):
I think it's time to bring Barry and Julie back.
Because what I'm about to talkabout mom. Definitely, I could
use some therapy. Its mom is apiece of work. God bless you,
mom. I love you, mom, but youare a piece of work. You really
are. I mean, my, my, my motheris one amazing, amazing woman.
(40:16):
Phyllis has always said this,and she's 100% right. My mom was
born in the wrong generation. Ifshe was born in our generation,
she'd be a kick ass CEO of anorganization that you would not
want to work for, because shewill look at you in the face and
say, You're a good worker, butyou're going to be terminated
(40:38):
tomorrow. That's it. That's allthere is to it. I'm sorry. I
can't keep you around anymore.
So lessons that I learned, and Ilearned quite a few, let's talk
about some of the most importantones. Number one, the sacrifices
I was making with my family andmy finances. I slowed that down.
My kids are now much older in2011 2012 so when my father
(41:01):
passed away now, we startedthinking about mom, who lived
alone like you guys did. Youguys did the exact same thing.
Your father passed away soearly, and you kind of say,
well, mom's okay, but we'll keepchecking on her. We did the same
again. My brother ran arestaurant for six days a week.
And his wife, God bless her.
(41:23):
She's a saint. You know, shewould go by check on mom two,
three times a week. But nobodywas really seeing her every day.
She was living by herself in ahouse, and things were okay for
the first few years, like youguys saw. But then around 2000
Oh, shoot, she did pretty wellfor about five, six years, and
then around 2018 19, it youknow, the cocky hit the fan?
(41:48):
Yeah, she got she gothospitalized three times in four
months for dehydration and UTI,and that's what I raised the red
flags to the siblings. Now, mylessons learned number one, I
don't immediately jump on aplane. I don't immediately spend
money without thinking about it,because even though we were
doing really well with ourbusiness, my kids were older, we
(42:10):
started to go to colleges. Ireally needed to stop and think
and think long term. Okay, thisis the beginning. I may have to
start going down to NorthCarolina every quarter. How am I
going to do that? And are thereother options? Can we maybe hire
somebody where we all split thecost, and have somebody, kind of
(42:32):
like a Geriatric Care Manager oran aging care life specialist
that they are called nowadays,that can help us oversee this,
right? Mom wouldn't have anypart of that. I could tell you
that. But the second lesson Ilearned is start including my
siblings. I started doing emailswhere I included all of them. Of
course, brother George doesn'tdo emails, but, or when he does,
(42:54):
they're ones that you don't wantto read. But, you know, and only
of late, like the last threeyears, where texting is becoming
more it's easier to use. I nowdo group taxes every single time
I talk about Mom, it's my sisterin law, it's my brother, it's my
sister, we're all on the sametext again. George, please read
(43:15):
your texts, please. So I, I, sothe second lesson I learned was
to include my siblings. I have amuch better relationship with my
brother now, and my sister ismuch more involved. You know, I
will reach out to her. I say,Hey, can you listen? I'm in the
middle of a lot of stuff. Canyou can you reach out to the
nurse? Because, you know, youcan't call the director nursing.
(43:36):
Expect them to call answer thephone at a nursing home, right?
But, but here's the third mostimportant, I think, lesson I
learned again from my dad isyou've got to have those direct
conversations with mom. Youcan't fudge it. You can't give
in, but you got to respect herindependence and dignity, okay?
And you've got to figure outwhose role is what between the
(43:58):
three siblings, okay? So Bessie,my sister, is kind of a
pacifier. Oh, Mom, it's gonna beokay. Don't worry. You know,
things gonna be good. Zach's alittle tough, but it's okay.
George, in emergencies, we'll goand see her and help us with
something on site, boots, youknow, strap on the boots. I will
reach out.
(44:18):
He sounds like us badly, right?
Natalie (44:21):
Yeah. Right.
Unknown (44:23):
But here's the most important thing, that now mom's
also a martyr. Just you guysknow mom, mom's a handful. You
know Mom, mom, who will remindme to this day, you should kick
me out of my house. You kickedme out of my house. You will
remind me to this day. But letme remind everybody listening at
95 years old. Her skin looksbetter than mine. She is well
(44:45):
taken care of. She is hydrated.
She hasn't had a UTI in over twoyears, right? They're on top of
the care there. Of course, ittakes a lot of due diligence, as
we all know. Shout out to Susiesinger Carter. Her, who just
came out with an amazingdocumentary that we all need to
watch about nursing homes. Okay,but here was the most important
(45:06):
thing that I have to share. Whenit was when she had hospitalized
three times in four months. Iflew down to Charlotte, and I
met with her face to face.
That's the only way. And now shestarted getting hard, hard of
hearing too, which really makesthings difficult over a phone.
Which, by the way, not manypeople know this, but hearing
aids are great for human voice,but they're not great for
(45:28):
mechanical voice, which meansTVs and radios and phones.
Didn't know that, did you? So,no, yeah, yeah. So it's very
difficult, even when people havehearing aids to try to have
phone conversations. And I'm along distance caregiver. I speak
to my mom almost every day,especially back then, but
anyway, I go meet with my mom,and I say to her, Look, Mom, you
(45:49):
can't stay home alone anymore. Ineed to bring in care. I know
you were always resistance inthe past, but I've got to bring
in care. She said, nope, nope.
Nobody coming to my house. Isaid, Okay, so here's Plan B,
you're going to have to go to aCCRC, right with these
continuous care retirementcommunities where you'll be
there and live in an apartment,I can get people to come in
check on you, and God forbid,you know something bad happens,
(46:13):
at least you can stay in thatcommunity. It's like, she's
like, No, I'm not going. I'm notleaving my house. I said, Well,
here's your third choice. Here'syour third choice. You're going
to fall, you're going to have abad fall, or you're going to
have a bad hospitalization, andyou won't have a choice, and
you're going to go straight to anursing home. So you tell me of
those three choices. Which onedo you want? Because I'm not
(46:35):
leaving till you give me one ofthose. And you know, I have to
go back to work, I have to goback to my family. And it took
about 24 hours for her to, oh,just sit there, and just like
she was knitting, and she wasangry, she was just angry,
angry. But she had to sit andyou have to let it be their
decision, right? Yeah, but youhad to do it in a way where she
(46:57):
they have to pick. It's amultiple choice. It's not an
open ended question, and that'swhat I learned from my first
caregiver journey. I at leasthad the wherewithal, the tools,
the resources, and so once youmade the decision, I hired
somebody in Charlotte to take usaround, right? So shout out to
placement specialists who arefantastic. And because I'm in
(47:22):
the business, and because I hadComfort Care in Charlotte, he
was able to help me. And by theway, a great resource for all of
you, wherever you live in thiscountry, if you ever want to
know, where do I turn forresources, call a reputable home
care agency, even if you're notgoing to use them. They know all
the great resources in the area,because they work with them.
They're referral partners. Sothat is one great way, and it's
(47:44):
a good way to build arelationship with the whole care
agency. But they're happy ifthey're a good agency, they're
happy to volunteer a number ofgreat resources. And that's
where I learned about an agingagent, in place specialist and
also a placement specialist. Andso they took us around, and mom
picked one so we were able tofind a CCRC. It was great, but
guess what was happening? Sherefused to let people come see
(48:07):
her. So we're like, All right,well, at least she's in a
facility where somethinghappens. The Director of Nursing
over the assisted living couldpop over and see her, but she
ended up getting hospitalizedagain a couple of times. She
just wasn't taking care ofherself. And so she actually
ended up having a badhospitalization, and she lost
her ability to walk. And so Ihad some issues with the
(48:30):
assisted living there at theCCRC, you know, and so I moved
her out of there, and I had togo take her to an assisted
living now, this is all duringcovid, just, you know, so I
Natalie (48:41):
moved her out of her house. That's even worse it was
during covid.
Unknown (48:45):
Yes, all during covid, I moved her out of her house.
Six months later, I moved herinto a CCRC, a continuous care
retirement community. Threemonths later, I took her out of
the CCRC and moved her into anassisted living. And then out of
that assisted living, she onlylasted a month, and then I she
ended up going to a nursing homewith rehab visits all weaved in
(49:06):
there. So within a year, shemoved three times during covid
and Phyllis and I had to go downthere and do all this. You know,
as far as moving her, I meanpacking her up, it took us seven
days. We spent seven days downthere to pack up that house,
sell it and move it. So, man,I'm tired, just talking about
it, you
Natalie (49:25):
know? Well, it's exhausting, if you think about
it. I mean, and you all are, youknow, you've got kids. Phyllis
is, is also doing have, youknow, honestly, as I'm saying,
Phyllis has her life too.
Unknown (49:37):
Well, she's running the business. Well, I'm gone. I
mean, we sold our business in2021 so we ran, we've been
running the business all thistime too. So, yeah, but it, you
know, it's a challenge. Lastthing I'll share, what have I
learned again? So I was tellingyou, so, oh yeah. So this is
really important again, forthose of you planning and
(49:58):
financially, we were. Honing onthe financial piece. So we sold
my mother's home. I was $400,000that only lasted three and a
half years. So we went throughthat. The only saving grace for
my mother, and again, this iswhy she would been a kick ass
CEO, is that she my father,bought the property that the
restaurant was on, andthankfully, thankfully, which,
(50:20):
again, she put me in charge tohelp her, and we were able to
sell that property, and she wasable to get some good finances
that not only helped pay for anursing home, but then I asked
her to help pick up some of myexpenses. And I had, I have no
shame in that, because I'vespent many years of doing that
on my own. And she said,Absolutely, you know. So she
(50:40):
will pay for my flights, pay formy hotel, and I go down there
every other month, and I willsee her, and we'll spend three
four days. I rent a van, whichshe pays for, and I rip out the
front seat, and I put her in thefront and we go paint the town
red for three days, you know?
We'll go see dad in thecemetery, which she never gets
to do. We'll go we'll go to somerestaurants. We'll go do things.
We'll go to Walmart. Holymackerel. Male caregivers out
(51:03):
there, if you take your motherto Walmart and you're shopping
for bras, be ready to beembarrassed.
JJ (51:15):
That may be the best advice that we will give anyway.
Natalie (51:18):
You know what your needs change as you get older.
Zach, a little bit more support.
That's right.
Unknown (51:26):
I gotta tell you this, Phyllis has, you know, find Zach
on the phone, and she knew I wasat Walmart in Charlotte, and
then she checks a half hourlater, I'm still at Walmart. She
checks a half hour I was inthere for an hour and a half,
and then she calls me, goes, Doyou need help? Do you need to
send somebody like 911, to getyou out of there?
Natalie (51:44):
This is the moment where she says, sounds like your
your old boss. Do we need tocall a woman in to help? That's
the moment that you're like youprobably do. So I will say it's
a different dynamic. And wealways say, you know, it's not
preferring one parent of theother. But I think the
challenges, like we would haveexperienced if our if the roles
(52:05):
were reversed, and it was ourdad, it would be very, very
different for us because, butalso the relationship was
different. And so I thinkthat's, that's what's so unique,
if you think about being adultchildren, trying to care for
your parents and support them atany level is the relationships
are different. They continue toevolve, yet not evolve at all.
(52:26):
Like your mom saying, No, I'mnot going to do that, buddy, and
you're, I'm the mom, and you'reprobably the Son, and so so I
will have to, I do have totransition this on because I
can't believe, like we're wayover our time, but we don't
really care. And so where that'sour standard answer, we're of
our time care, because this isso important. This is such an
important conversation. So wehave to do sister questions. And
(52:49):
there's some important things Iknow JJ is going to ask. I know
her question because I alreadyjust know it. But go ahead, Jay,
why don't you go ahead andstart. Okay, I have two,
JJ (52:56):
one of a serious but my second one is not. So my first
question is, Zach, how did youjust tell me what you're doing
now with Selma, and what got youinto that your advocacy and why
that's so important for workingcaregivers?
Unknown (53:08):
Oh, yeah, thanks for asking so, so, um, when, when I
was when I mentioned earlierSelma and I got on the phone,
after 10 years, we startedsharing each other's caregiver
story. And I'm like, mygoodness, I can't believe that.
You know, we ought to dosomething about this. And we
said, we said, let's go, let'swrite a book. And so we started
writing a book. And I'm not awriter, she's the writer, but I
would write a chapter. She wrotea chapter. And finally we
(53:31):
agreed. And so I love you,Selma, you're Yang, I'm Yang.
And she said, Zach, this isn'tworking out. Maybe I should
write it. You edit. I go. Okay,thank God, that's great. I love
group work. Yes, yes, and so.
But halfway through it, youknow, I sold my business, and I
took two years off. I retiredPhyllis, and I traveled. I spent
a lot of time on LinkedIn. I gotto meet you phenomenal ladies.
(53:53):
I've met a lot of I've met over100 plus caregiver advocates
that I just shout out to all ofyou out there, but the more I
started looking at this, Istarted thinking, You know what,
there's a lot of books aboutcaregiving. I think we need to
change. I think we need to focusmore on maybe working with
employers so that we could tryto do a larger audience. Because
(54:14):
of my HR background, because ofSelma legal background, we have
a lot of corporate experiencebecause of our personal
caregiving background. We have alot of experience because of my
professional caregivingbackground. It's really maybe we
should bring those together andsee if we could try to help
employers. And so we justchanged midstream, which I love
that about us, and so becausewe're both not young spring
(54:37):
chickens, and she hates when Isay that, but before the end of
this year, we are looking andplanning to announce, you know,
our services, which we arereally excited about. We have a
board of advisors that we haveinvited to join us, to guide us
so that we're not typicalconsultants, so that we feel
like that we're getting somegood guidance as to what is
(54:58):
going. To be the best approachholistically, to help employers,
because it's great thatemployers might have an erg, or
they may have a benefit here andthere, or they may do a webinar
caregiving, but that's justtrying to put a finger in a hole
where, how do you say it withthe Selma? Does it so well? But
that's like trying to plug ahole, but just another hole
(55:19):
pulls out right? So it's notreally taking care of the
problem. Is just trying thesalute. It's not really a
solution. So that's that's kindof what someone are doing now.
We're really excited about andhope that, hope to share more
about it by year end.
JJ (55:33):
Yeah, yeah. If your employer stinks in the caregiving world,
you need to send them to Zach.
Natalie (55:41):
Is what we're saying.
Selma anyway, on LinkedIn andon, I mean, that's really,
that's where you're going tostay up to date. And they have
lots of great conversations. Wewere on their show, and it was
just a ton of fun. And reallytalking about because, you know,
I think it's Zach, seven out of10 individuals are also
caregivers, are also work,either full time or part time,
(56:02):
and so we can't afford not to. Ithink that's what we we have to
have these conversations. Andcaregiver issues are business
issues, and if you ignore that,then it's going to impact your
bottom line. Let's just bereally clear. And so we this is
a recruitment, a retention and aculture issue and so and
caregivers, I like to say, aresome of your best employees. And
(56:24):
so do not be afraid to to employthose caregivers, because they
can multitask like no other.
Unknown (56:32):
Why don't we do this?
You know, I love what you said.
JJ, but why don't we just softenit just a tad? Because I'm an
Aquarius, so I like this, youknow, I'm a lover and a hugger.
So employers out there. If youkind of not doing things right,
come on to this show first andconfess, and then pop over to
Zach and Selma, and then we'llhelp take area. How's that?
That's a great idea. I thinkthat's the challenge,
(56:53):
employer, listening to HRleader, manager out there,
listening to this show. Come onto the show first, talk about it
with these two amazingtherapists, and they come over,
we'll help you out.
JJ (57:04):
We'll hear you. Okay, here's my funny. Why did the restaurant
get named Zach? Oh, I knew wewere going. That was my funny. I
just answer, and then Nataliegets her question.
Unknown (57:17):
Okay, so every non Greek is going to shake their
head when I say this, and everyGreek is gonna nod their head
when I say this. Okay, so in1975 when my father purchased a
restaurant trying to find a namefor it, obviously, Greeks name
restaurants after themselves,Jimmy's, Joe's, George's, right?
Well, my dad's name is Jimmy. InGreek, it's Demetrius, and there
(57:38):
were already a few Jimmy's inCharlotte. My brother's name is
George, and there was alreadyGeorge and Jimmy the most
popular names in Greece. Yeah,heaven forbid you name a
restaurant after a female. So mymom and my sister were out of
the fixer,
Natalie (57:53):
although that's got a ring to it. Oh, I
Unknown (57:56):
like that. Bessie. We missed our calling bessie's
Burgers. So Zach was a veryunknown name. I mean, now people
call their dogs Zach. So, youknow, Zach was very, not very
popular. Had a little, you know,uniqueness to it. So my dad
decided to call it Zach, and itworked because I'm the only one
of the three that stayed inthere. Worked for eight years,
(58:18):
even though my brother took itover. Shout out to my brother
for doing a good job. He took itover and ran it over and ran it
for 25 years.
JJ (58:24):
So love it, but by default, basically, Zach is what you're
saying. You won by default.
Natalie (58:28):
It was fine. It was the last option. The last option,
Unknown (58:35):
let me tell you, it was, it was amazing being named.
You know, a restaurant namedafter you. I never got tired of
it. I never got tired to thisday, when I hear people talk
about Zach's hamburgers, it justgives me a lot of pride. And I
gotta tell you, shoot, it's wewere in a couple of films.
(58:56):
Shoot. I'm trying to rememberhomeland, homeland, I think
second season, episode nine, theentire parse part of the season
was filmed right there, Zachhamburgers there, you know, it's
just, it's just, it's just aninfamous restaurant that was
there for so many years, andwhen it closed, it really ticked
off a lot of people. It reallydid. For three days, there were
(59:16):
long lines around that blockbecause it was the last three
days the restaurant was open, Ishit. I flew my entire family
down there for the last sixhours of Zach's hamburgers. It
was amazing. It was great,awesome.
Natalie (59:28):
Oh, all right. And so I always like to end with one last
question. Always the one that wealways do, what is your favorite
guilty pleasure? What is the onething?
Unknown (59:38):
Yeah, okay. And again, I hope Mom's not listening,
which I know she's not, becauseshe could barely use the TV
remote, one of my favoriteguilty pleasures. And I've
listened to your show, and I'vebeen thinking about this a lot,
and I will tell you, this is atrue guilty pleasure, and you'll
know why it's guilty. So whenI'm down visiting Mom, I'm
literally with her, 24/7, forthree days, right? And in the
(59:59):
middle. The day, you know, Iencourage her go and rest in the
bed, plus she takes her waterpills. So that's the time to
unload, get get changed,exactly. Doing that for you at
Walmart, I can assure you that.
And so I let her stay in her,you know, in her bed to rest, or
her recliner to rest her back,because she can't walk, right?
She's in a wheelchair the wholetime, and in three hours between
(01:00:19):
like two to five, and she alwaystells me, go to the hotel. Rest,
Zach, rest, you know, I go,okay, Mom, I'll go to the hotel
and rest. I don't go to thehotel. Rest, what I do in
Charlotte. Shout out toCharlotte, famous for a lot of
great breweries. And I lovebreweries. And so between two
and five, I go to a brewery, andI sit back and have a couple of
(01:00:42):
brews, find an outdoor one,relax. Sometimes I'll sneak a
cigar in and just chill and justI'm in heaven. I don't even get
on my phone. I'm just like dad.
I promise you, I would take careof mom and my but, man, you
(01:01:03):
could have left me with a littlemore something here, Dad,
Natalie (01:01:06):
I mean, but then again, that's hilarious.
Unknown (01:01:09):
Those are my guilty pleasures.
Natalie (01:01:12):
That's a good one. I really, really like that. I like
that a lot. Well, Zach, thanksso much for being with us. This
has been an absolute pleasure.
We knew it was going to be a tonof fun, and so we're just so
grateful to call you a bestie.
You are our brother in carewithout question, and we love
you, and we love Phyllis and thekids. And I just, I feel like we
(01:01:33):
always have, I mean, we can'tNOT say Phyllis. I mean, we love
her, and she's this teenyperson, so thanks. She is really
comes
Unknown (01:01:42):
up to my hip as JJ says, so does everybody else.
But yeah, I love you. I love youguys too, so much. And thank you
for I really mean it from thebottom of my heart, the work
you're doing, the stories you'retelling, the resources that you
guys are giving, your crews thatyou're doing out there. I mean,
we need this. We really needthis. And I just thank you for
the bottom of my heart that youguys are dedicating so much time
(01:02:03):
and energy and resources behindus.
Natalie (01:02:05):
Thank you absolutely.
Zach Jadey, when
JJ (01:02:07):
take us out, absolutely guys, thank you for listening,
and until we confess again,we'll see you next time.
Natalie (01:02:15):
Bye, bye. Well, friends, that's a wrap on this
week's confession again. Thankyou so much for listening, but
before you go, please take amoment to leave us a review and
tell your friends about theconfessions podcast. Don't
forget to visit our website tosign up for our newsletter.
You'll also find the videorecording of all of our episodes
(01:02:38):
on the confessions website andour YouTube channel. Don't
worry, all the details areincluded in the show notes
below. We'll see you nextTuesday when we come together to
confess again. Till then, takecare of you. Okay, let's talk
disclaimers. You may besurprised to find out, but we
(01:03:00):
are not medical professionalsand are not providing any
medical advice. If you have anymedical questions, we recommend
that you talk with a medicalprofessional of your choice. As
always, my sisters and I, atConfessions of a reluctant
caregiver, have taken care inselecting speakers, but the
opinions of our speakers aretheirs alone. The views and
(01:03:22):
opinions stated in this podcastare solely those of the
contributors and not necessarilythose of our distributors or
hosting company. This podcast iscopyrighted, and no part can be
reproduced without the expresswritten consent of the
sisterhood of care LLC. Thankyou for listening to the
confessions of our reluctantcaregiver podcast.
Hey guys, it's your favorite sisters with the
Confessions of a reluctantcaregiver. Podcast. On the show,
you'll hear caregiversconfessing the good, the bad and
the completely unexpected.
You're guaranteed to relate, beinspired. Lead with helpful tips
and resources, and, of course,laugh. Now let's get to today's
confession. Hey, Jay, goodmorning. Good morning. You know
(00:29):
it's summer in the US, but I'mgoing to tell you right now,
it's chilly outside, and Iwasn't expecting that I've
decided to pull out my longsleeves. And also, if you're not
watching on our YouTube channel,also look like an episode of
Where's Waldo. And so this is myWaldo shirt.
JJ (00:51):
Scary, because this morning, I almost wore a striped shirt.
And when I got all this word andI was like, if she and I both
had on, oh my god, it
Natalie (00:59):
would have been bad.
Also, doubles as a candy cane.
Look.
Unknown (01:03):
This is our Christmas episode.
Natalie (01:05):
Welcome to Christmas in August. You know what? We have
the best person like, you knowhe's my best friend. Um, come
on. Don't know he's been my bestfriend for years, and when we
met him at the beginning, likethis is like Zach has been with
us since we really started, andhe was, remember that time he
was in a cast, yeah, thing, andhe's like, 1000 feet tall,
(01:31):
again, he's 1000 feet tall, andhe's an icon. He is. I mean,
honestly, everybody knows him,and to be able to finally get
him on the podcast. We corneredhim. He had no free will. You
know, clearly we were like,Dude, you got to come on our
podcast. We love you. You wantto let him talk? What do you
think? I guess we can. And thisfalls under the same episode of,
(01:54):
it's a boy. Let me do it. It's aboy. It is a boy. And I love
forgivers, yeah, because thereality is, is that there's
just, there's lots of malecaregivers out there. And I
think, again, like most generalcare caregivers in general,
they're underrepresented. And soand men are taking care of loved
(02:15):
ones just as much as the femalesare. And they're, they're on
their way up because, becauseyou have to some days. And so
this is what we're going to talkabout today. And so we're going
to get I'm so excited thatZach's here. So Jay, tell
everybody about our bestie.
JJ (02:27):
Zach, all right, this is my bestie. Zach, so first of all, I
get to say because I get totalk. I love our guest today.
And Natalie, get ready becausehe's my care crush. You know you
have, like, professional crush.
Zach is my care crush, and I cansay that because I know his
wife, Phyllis, and she's like,whatever you're gonna love me.
Phyllis, hey, Phyllis, so we'retalking to Zach demopoulos
(02:50):
today. So Zach is, like, Nataliesaid he's one of the first
people that we met and heard,because you'll hear Zach like
he's here, his radio announcer.
He was the one of the what wasthe first care conference that
we were at, and since then,Zach, you have been a resource,
but you've you've been a mentor,but you're an amazing friend,
and you're a champion for us,and we really appreciate that.
(03:13):
So of course, Zach has a storylike everyone else that we
talked to in 2006 he was draftedinto caregiving for his father
in less than three minutes. Likemany of us in a crisis today, he
continues the role with his 95year old mother. I've shortened
these Natalie so I'm not telling
Natalie (03:31):
the whole story, because we already told it so
much. I'm sorry. Bye, bye. He'shad
JJ (03:35):
a diverse professional background, from corporate
positions to co founding andoperating a home care agency for
13 years with his wife. Onething that remains constant,
Zach is a huge care advocate.
You'll see that what he doestoday and well, basically I say,
You're a force to be reckonedwith, Zach, we are so excited to
have you. The crowd goes wild.
Unknown (03:56):
Good morning. Good morning. Good morning. Good
morning. Man. What an intro.
Gee, I'm gonna say that andlisten to that when I'm having
bad days. How's that?
JJ (04:07):
Oh, yeah. We can add music, a clapping band or something,
whatever you want.
Unknown (04:12):
Yeah, but I gotta tell you something. I was listening
to that I was this, I wasthinking of this striped
sandwich, you know, if you werewearing striped shirt. JJ, and
we know now he's wearing astriped shirt, if you're
watching this on YouTube, andI'm in the middle, we're talking
about a striped Greek uterosandwich, because I'm right in
the middle. And that that, thatis what's in my mind right now.
So it might take a lot for me toget that out of my mind.
Natalie (04:34):
It's okay. It's okay.
Now I'm just, I'm gonna stickwith my candy cane. I'm gonna be
thinking about fall weather, andthen better, then I'm like, Oh,
it's cold, but, you
Unknown (04:43):
know, I'm also thinking about Greek food for lunch.
Thanks, right? Well,
Natalie (04:48):
thank you. This is really awesome, though, where,
because I'm glad that youmentioned your Greek. I love
that. I mean, that's this, like,we're going to talk about, like,
really, this is my favoritepart, of course. Asking you tell
us start from the beginning youwere born. But we had the
opportunity to meet Zach inperson, and then we met him up
in his hood, up in New Jersey,when we were visiting another
(05:11):
friend of ours, Doreen, who weall met on LinkedIn, which is
really funny. And we went toDoreen marchetti's house, and we
all ate, and we ate so much foodand had so much fellowship, but
we get to learn more about Zach.
So I think, you know, key, thecornerstone of a piece of who we
are is where we come from, andto understand that, and then
that really informs of who willbe as adults. And I love Zach's
(05:34):
family, and so Zach, I want youto go ahead and tell us, start
from the beginning, kind ofpaint the picture of life and
work your way up to care.
Unknown (05:47):
My parents came over in a Greek boat in 1953 they
battled high seas and stormyweather. They only had a bag and
$2 in their pocket. First ofall, thank you so much for being
here. I am, like, honored I whenI met you two ladies, I thought
(06:09):
you were nuts, and I know forsure that you are, and I love
that about you, too. And thankyou also, on behalf of all
caregivers, on all the work youguys are doing, you are such
amazing. But I I am just honoredto know that you were I met you
guys in the beginning, and lookat you now. You guys are stars.
You're lighting it up, andyou're doing so much great work.
(06:29):
Also. Thank you for shouting outmale caregivers. I think that is
really important. I think wemales need to talk more. All
right. Get out from under thatrock. Get away from your pride.
There are many of us out there,so thank you for that as well.
Thank you for shouting out,because we do need to tell our
stories. We are not alone. Isee, I know you, Natalie, you
like my Greek roots. So I guessI just not to, hopefully not
(06:52):
bore your audience. But I willjust briefly say, you know, I am
a very proud son of Greekimmigrant parents. You know,
they came over, really, in the50s, not on a boat, but they did
come on a plane, but theyimmigrated without a word of
English, and they found whateverjobs they could get. My dad was
a dishwasher. My mother workedin a factory stuffing, candy,
(07:14):
ice cream cones in boxes, youknow, back before they had
machinery doing that, right?
Yeah. And so they struggled veryhard to raise us in a in a
country where we hadopportunity. I know that sounds
corny, but I am really, reallyjust grateful to them. I am the
youngest of three. We'll talkabout siblings later. Yeah, I'm
sure we'll get into siblingdynamics, and I hope my sister
(07:36):
brother don't watch this, butwe'll talk about a little bit
about that, but because Greek,Greek families are so weird and
so complex. But I love them. Ilove my Greek family. But, you
know, my father and mother cameinto the states, actually in 72
we immigrated into Canada, andso I have a quite a diverse
experience, which I'm verygrateful for. I've lived over in
(07:57):
seven different area spots. Butwhen my father finally landed in
a spot with Charlotte, NorthCarolina, shout out to
Charlotte, where I grew up. Youknow, he did get a restaurant,
and he did name it, Zach's,Zach's hamburgers, and it's my
favorite. It's infamous, by theway, because every time I would
(08:17):
fly to Charlotte, I'd be sittingnext to somebody, and they'd ask
me who I am. We'd bring upZach's hamburgers, and I go,
I've been there, so it's likeinfamous, you know, and but I
the reason why that is soimportant me is I worked in a
restaurant from 13 years old to21 and I learned everything
about life and business from myparents. My mother was in there,
(08:39):
my father was in there. Andmaybe that's why I'm so
dedicated to being a caregiver.
I don't know. I mean, you know,we probably need Barry and Julie
to help us with thatpsychoanalysis, but we shout out
to Barry Julie too, by the way,but I just feel like, you know
that I owe them, because whatthey did for me, they really,
(09:02):
really created opportunity. Iwas only one of three that went
to college. I remember when Iwas about 15 years old, I turned
to my dad when I was mopping onenight, and I worked about six
days a week with him afterschool and all summer for eight
years. I mean, that's what Idid, and I loved it, but I
remember I said to him, Dad, Ican't wait to have a restaurant
like you. And he said, It isstupid. Oh, you think I came all
(09:24):
the way from Greece so you canown a restaurant is you will get
an education, you're gonna get agood job, and you promise me you
never, never have a restaurant.
So that's why I don't have arestaurant, even though, wow,
back then I do want one. So, soI became a caregiver for my dad,
as you mentioned. JJ, I wasdrafted. You know, my father was
a hard working immigrant, justlike, like many of the Greeks
(09:47):
that came over, was stubborn,never went to a doctor, and it
was a miracle that he never gotsick. He smoked two packs of
cigarettes a day. He definitelyhad hypertension, probably all
kind. Of other stuff, but at 78he had his first major illness,
and he had a stroke, and it wasa bad one, and he fell, fell
down and had a severe stroke.
(10:10):
And my brother called me, andI'm in New Jersey, and I got one
of my biggest jobs ever. This isa dream job, executive HR for
the CFO of Pfizer, and I'mliving the dream, and I get this
phone call. I'm in the middle ofa meeting with my when my boss
actually I didn't take the firstcall, but when he called again
and again, I stepped out in thehallway and my brother was
crying and saying, You need toget down here. And that was a
(10:32):
three minute phone call. Neverforget, Dad's had a huge stroke.
You've got to get down here. Hedidn't know what to do. My
sister's in Canada, and I gotdrafted as a caregiver, and I
immediately did it the very thatevening, I jumped on a plane,
didn't tell anybody what I wasdoing, except my wife, and went
down there for three days. Youknow all about this, ladies, you
(10:53):
know? Yeah, you got to start theminute someone gets
hospitalized. You have to startplanning that transition of
care. You have to start thinkingabout discharge. I was clueless.
I didn't know a thing aboutcaregiving. I didn't know a
thing about hospitalizations. I00, knowledge. I learned it as I
went baptismal by fire. Made anumber, a number of mistakes,
(11:14):
including pissing my brother andsister off. Can I say piss on
the on this show? Sorry, we'reclean,
Natalie (11:19):
so I'll just beep that out. Be Did you
JJ (11:22):
notice something that? Well, hold on, he he skipped a big
part. We're stopping him rightthere. He skipped all this, all
this. You had a little bit ofstuff that happened before that.
Like, I think you had a familyin there. So I want to know,
like,
Unknown (11:35):
You got
Natalie (11:36):
married, you had some kids, like, beautiful kids. I
don't even know how old he wasat this point, I'm thinking he
just went 21 to nothing.
Unknown (11:43):
Yeah. I mean, did you leave your kid? I mean, was
Phyllis taking care of the wholefamily?
Natalie (11:49):
Phyllis, no, and she's a powerhouse, so everybody has
to know about her, yeah,
Unknown (11:55):
beautiful Greek love story. I'm married to my wife
for 38 years. She was she wasblind when she married me, and
she obviously very desperate,and so, yeah, so we, my wife and
I, Phyllis is amazing. I mean,I'm just so blessed. We're
married 38 years. We have threebeautiful children. There. They
(12:17):
all have beautiful spouses. Ihave three grandchildren,
Natalie (12:20):
beautiful too. Thank you.
Unknown (12:23):
We're blessed. I mean, we're not perfect, by far, we're
not perfect, but you know, weare blessed. And you know what?
Thank you for bringing that up.
Because, you know, incaregiving, I guess I got to
keep bringing it back tocaregiving. You know, when I
jumped on that plane at nightand left, you know, I didn't
think about my family. I didn'tthink about my job. I didn't
think about any of that. And forthe first couple of trips, it
(12:44):
was okay. My kids didn't reallycare, because they're used to
dad getting on a plane and goingon business trips, and Phyllis
is used to it. In fact, Phyllisand I said Our marriage was
really good, because she knewexactly when I was the party and
Natalie (12:59):
when I was arriving.
The best relationship is whenthey leave.
Unknown (13:03):
That's right. In fact, there was times like winter,
when's your flight leaving. Imean, I'm 55 I was like, Yes,
oh my god. I mean, I think thattoy was the secret of our
marriages. We had, we had a lotof fun the night I left, away a
lot of fun the night I cameback. So it's just G rated, or
(13:24):
is this
Natalie (13:25):
totally fine, but it's totally fine. It's that's
normal, you know? But here's thequestion. Here's like, when you
got that call, how old were thekids? Like, where were you?
Because you said, from a from aprofessional standpoint, you're
running hot. You're running hot,you're doing great stuff. You
You're you're moving yourcareer. Because, I mean, you
guys are up in New Jersey, yourdad and your mom and dad are
(13:46):
down in North Carolina, or northCathy, Lackey and and so. But
how old were the kids? It givesus kind of a frame of reference,
yeah. So 2006
Unknown (13:56):
December 14, is when my father, my brother called, and
my father had a stroke, and myoldest is six years old. My next
little middle son, Dimitri.
Shout the Dimitri, he rocks. AndCosta, you. He rocks. He's, uh,
he was, he was three, andAnastasia's one and a half. Wow.
You have little Don't, don't saythat about me. Say that about
(14:20):
Phyllis. I just left, yeah,just, you know, I went six times
to Charlotte in six months, sixtrips in six months. I went back
and forth, you know, all myexpense, all my, you know, deal
with it. One of those trips,Phyllis actually came down with
me and to help me, because Ireally, I really didn't know
what the hell I was doing. I'llbe honest, we I, I really
(14:42):
didn't. And Phyllis is just Godsaid, she's just got a natural,
you know, Mother caring spiritto her, and she can handle my
mother, who really well themother in law. But, you know, we
went down for a whole week inone of those six trips, and we
had my father walking with acane. And we were we, you know,
we had a lot of fun. You know,we made the trips to the doctors
(15:02):
and everything with them,because my mom didn't drive. My
brother ran a restaurant thewhole time, so he couldn't do
anything. And my sister's inCanada, so we had my father
walking with a cane andeverything. And I will tell you
in so confessions, you know,guilt. Confessions, I'll tell
you one thing, you know, afterour last trip down here, I
didn't go back down for threemonths because, I mean, I was
(15:23):
burned out. And my job, I gottabe honest, you my boss was a
little, it was, it was, he wasgetting a little irritated with
me. You know, this was a highlevel job, and we had a lot of
stuff going on with Pfizer. Andno offense to him, because back
in 2006 you know, I don't, Idon't expect males to understand
this. But one point he even toldme, do you need to keep going
(15:45):
down her kitchen is intosomething your wife
Natalie (15:49):
could do. That's not uncommon, though. And I think
here's the thing, spoiler alert,probably even today, probably
even today, that that commentsomebody's mind mouth, I hope
not. But you know, here's theother thing I want to take a
break first. Break for a secondbecause I want to come back in,
but I want to ask you about I dowant to continue talking about
work and because you're in ayou're in a position that that
(16:12):
could potentially, potentiallyimpact you professionally from a
long term growth standpoint, aswell as financially impacting
your family, and what are yougoing to do? So we're going to
take a break. We'll be rightback
Unknown (16:26):
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JJ (17:01):
right, everybody, we are back with Zach. Zach, honestly,
we went through the first break.
I mean, I'm like, Oh my gosh. Wehave to talk really fast. But
Zach is fantastic. So we'vegotten to this point this, this
is amazing, where actually yourboss says, well, can't your wife
do this? So I too, like Natsaid, I'm amazed that, first of
(17:21):
all, you're in an HR position,and this is kind of, this is
kind of a well, why do you haveto, you know? Why do you need to
care? So we want to talk aboutthat further. And then I also
want to make sure we go back toyou went down, made decisions,
and your brother and sisterwere, like, not entirely, you
know, excited about it. Maybethat's a little sibling, you
know, interaction. Let's talkabout work again. Let's go back
(17:42):
to that. And as Natalie said,talk about the impact that it
had on your career. Go ahead nowwell,
Natalie (17:48):
and also the fact it's 2006 how much you're using
video? We're in 2025 and we'renow, we're like, I mean, look,
we're recording remotely like wedidn't have that like, not
especially in behavioral health.
So what? What kind ofaccommodations Let's go. Let's
dig a little deeper into that.
Unknown (18:06):
Okay, okay, look at JJ.
She wants to get to the dirt.
You know, she heard me about thesibling issues, so you want some
dirt? Oh, don't worry. So Imentioned to you I felt guilt,
right? So here's the reason whyI felt guilt, because after I
left with Phyllis that last wespent a week down there. I came
back three months later, and myfather had thrown his cane away.
He was sitting in a wheelchair.
Never got out of it again forfive years, and I just felt
(18:28):
guilt because nobody took him toappointments. No Fault to
anybody in particular. It's justthe systems. And to your point,
we just didn't know what wedidn't know at the time and and
I didn't have any resources. AndI'll tell you, you made a good
point. I'm in freaking HR, and Ididn't know where to go. And
somebody actually turned to meand said, Have you called the
(18:49):
AP? And I go, what? Because youdon't, you're in HR, you didn't
even know what EAP is. Alwaysthought that that's something
that you use in emergency.
You're in an emergency. Zach,you're really struggling.
Because I was, I really was soupset when I went down and saw
my dad in a wheelchair. Mymother was trying to take care
of him. I'm like, I got to getthem some help. And so I did
(19:11):
call EAP and no offense to AP,or maybe a little bit of offense
to AP, because you at the end ofthe day, they're just, yeah,
yeah. I got my beef with them,you know, they could do a better
job. You know, as an HR person,I will state this as a fact.
It's the most underutilized,overspent benefit organizations
have today. So come on, guys, weneed to do a little bit better
job of that we really do. And Imean, partner with the AP and so
(19:34):
that they can, you know, reallystep up on the caregiving piece.
I would hope it's improved since2006 before when I hear it
hasn't but when I called the AP,all they did for me was send me
a list of home care agencies.
There were 15 of them in NorthCarolina. I picked the top one.
I called them blind. Didn't knowwhat to ask. I gave them my
credit card, and they basicallytook two weeks non refundable
deposit from me. My mother firedthem at. After the second day,
(19:59):
because they insulted her, theywalked in and go, Look, we're
not gonna listen to you. He'sour patient. We're not listening
to you. And she goes, Oh yeah.
Well, listen to this. Get out ofmy house. And so that was two
weeks, and, you know, they kindof again, it would have been
helpful to know what questionsto ask to learn more about home
care. To your point, Natalie, Ihad no resources to go to. And
(20:23):
ironically, after I left Pfizer,what did I do? I went and I
started a home care agency.
Because of that experience,Phyllis and I ran one for 13
years so, but there weren't alot of resources. Not many
people were talking about it.
Listen, you gotta understandsomething. I came from HR,
right? And I was in HR in thelate 80s, early 90s, we were
(20:43):
battling how to deal with peopleleaving for maternity leave and
not being discriminated against,and not being penalized and
giving them benefits. I notkidding, ladies, and I know you
agree. I know you you believethis. I would sit in talent
planning meetings, where theywould say, Well, let's take her
(21:04):
off the the track, the careertrack, because she just had a
child. I mean, the heck are youtalking about? Are you kidding
me? I mean, right off the bat,they put an X on her because she
just had a child. So we've comea long way with children. We've
now got to focus on on eldercare as well, and adult children
(21:24):
with with they need care. So youwant to talk about siblings? Is
that right?
Natalie (21:30):
JJ, Well, it's interesting that Yeah, I think
we totally should talk aboutsiblings, because that's fun.
You know. Let me ask you onemore question, though, did you
talk about your care and thethings that were going on with
your colleagues at work?
Unknown (21:45):
No, no, not at all. I did not. First of all, did you
get the part we were Greekimmigrants. You know, we're very
proud people. We don't share ourlaundry with anybody outside the
house the family. When I dideventually hire that home care
agency? My mother wasembarrassed. She was afraid who
was going to find out. Shedidn't want people coming into
(22:05):
her house so that they could seewhat's going on in the house.
They didn't, they didn't go backto church because they didn't
want to see dad in a wheelchair.
Very proud, proud people, and Iwas the same way as the way I
was raised, very, very silent wedidn't, we didn't even say, you
know, I love you publicly, youknow, you know to each other.
So, so yeah, that that you knowthat I didn't tell anybody at
(22:31):
work. In fact, you guys have metSelma, my partner, Selma Archer,
she and I worked at Pfizertogether. We didn't know each
other's caregiver story, andhere, you know, but 10 years
later, we met and had aconversation. It was an hour and
a half conversation. Wereconnected after 10 years on
LinkedIn, and she tells hercaregiver story, I'm telling
(22:52):
mine. And we looked at eachother like, how come we didn't
know this about each other? Andwe're like, I never told a soul
at work. I didn't tell my boss,I didn't tell anybody in HR,
except that one phone call toEAP. Wow. Now with my mother as
a caregiver, a caregiver from amother years later, I certainly
have told the whole world anddid podcasts about it, and I've
(23:13):
learned a lot from my mistakes,and it like to think I'm a
better caregiver from thatexperience.
Natalie (23:20):
Yeah, so let's talk about so you have this incident
with your dad. Happen yourbrother calls you and was like,
You're gonna have to get downhere. Stat, now is Brother
oldest or the sister? The oldest
Unknown (23:31):
brother is 60 months older than me, and sister is
three years older than me.
Natalie (23:35):
Ah, so the girl isn't that interesting, like she moved
to Canada. So what was theconversation like with you guys
internally? Because Emily, JJand I always have internal
conversations, like we'retalking about, what are we going
to do? I mean, because I knowyou're talking about this stuff,
like, what are we gonna do withDad, we're gonna do with mom.
Yeah, and, and what's theplanning sound like, and
(23:57):
disbursement of duties?
Unknown (24:00):
Was there a plan confession time?
Natalie (24:05):
Because sibling dynamics, you know, this is a
total dumpster fire, if it, youknow, siblings can be a dumpster
fire. JJ, brought out herdumpster
Unknown (24:16):
you I love that term.
You guys use dumpster fire. Ilove it. So Bessie and George,
my sister and brother.
Confession time, I asked foryour forgiveness. I apologize. I
totally did not keep you in theloop. I did not talk to you. I
felt like I had this. I canhandle this and and also to the
(24:37):
priest who's listening to Ireally just asked for
forgiveness because I reallyscrewed up. I made, I made some,
some bad mistakes, because ourDynamics before my sister and I,
our dynamics are strong. I lovemy sister dearly, and I would do
anything for her, and she tookcare of us. We were young kids,
but she was not in a position tojump on a plane and come down
(24:57):
here and help us out. Mybrother. And I have always had a
rivalry. I think, ever since Igrew taller than him in the 10th
grade, he kind of had it out forme a little bit.
Natalie (25:06):
So he's five foot one and you're six foot 10.
Unknown (25:10):
No, no, no, no, no, but, but, you know, you get the
point. You know, metaphorically,I think he's five foot one. So,
so we've learned, you know, thethree of us have all learned us
have all learned in ourcaregiving experiences that
including your siblings is veryimportant, especially if the
dynamics aren't there to beginwith, if you're going to have a
(25:30):
plan, which I did not, and ifyou're going to try to reach out
and get help. So I would say thefirst six years of caring for
helping my mother care for myfather. I totally sucked at
keeping my siblings. I had a lotof issues with my brother. I
kept my sister out of it,thinking that she couldn't help
anyway, and that made things somuch worse, to the point where,
(25:56):
when my father unfortunatelyfell many times, he just refused
to wear those slips, slipresistant socks. He always wore
those black nylon socks that hewore when he worked at the
restaurant. And he just and hewas stubborn. He would jump out
of the recliner, grab thewalker, put himself in the
wheelchair and go to thebathroom, and try to go to the
bathroom himself and not ask formy mom. And he finally had that
(26:18):
one fatal slip in the bathroomwhere he broke his back and, and
it was terrible. It was I wasactually in Greece for the first
time in 10 years with my family.
I was only five days in, and Iget that phone call again for my
brother, once again, he'scrying, and he said, You got to
get over here. And, and I left.
(26:39):
And, and this was a bad one, andmy father only, only lasted six
months. But I'll never forgetwhen we were in the hospital,
and the doctor or the socialworker and the and the pastor
come meets with us and says,Look, you don't have end and end
of life wishes here. You have noDNR. You've got none of this
(27:01):
typical, you know, caregivingfamily on a caregiving journey.
I don't know what the hellthey're doing, right? We don't
have any of these importantlegal documents in place that
are necessary. And my brotherand sister my mother are
listening to this conversation,and they don't want any part of
it. They, you know, they thinkthis is sacrilegious to talk
about end of life, and to speakto a person and say, Do you want
(27:26):
them to unplug the machine ifyou're no longer living and so
it fell on me. I don't know whyit fell on me. And my brother
and sister were like, like,thought I was an evil person.
Maybe my sister not as much. Butmy brother, walked out. He
walked out, goes, I cannot dothis. You You do. You guys,
figure it out. And he, I don'tblame him. I mean, he just
(27:48):
emotionally couldn't handle it.
And so I had the conversationwith my father. I sat down with
him, and, you know, he and Ibuilt a very strong relationship
in the many years I worked withhim. I just have nothing but the
utmost respect all thesepictures back here, most of them
are of him in the restaurant andall that stuff. And I know he's
my huge inspiration, as well asmy mother, but I had a very,
very important conversation withhim. Lasted 30 minutes, and he
(28:11):
told me his wishes, and we gotthem documented. He says, I do
not want to live if I'm going tolive this way. And he looked at
me and said, You're going to behonest with me, right? I go,
Yeah, I'll be honest with you,Pops, don't worry. So he did end
up going into rehab after that.
Never got out of rehab, and thenhe got re hospitalized again. He
(28:35):
was in a bad shape, and I wentand saw him. I went saw him on
his name day, which Greeks, bythe way, they don't celebrate
birthdays. They celebrate namedays. So his, my dad's name is
Dimitri, like my son's name,actually, my son's name, Demetri
is like my father's name, right?
I named him Dimitri, and I tookmy son, Dimitri, and we went
just a surprise visit in thehospital with him. And I'll
never forget this. We're inthere and and not to get really
(28:57):
dark here, but this isimportant. I can't emphasize how
important it is to have theseconversations with the people
that we love. Somebody in thefamily has to do it, so I'm
curious. I'm gonna throw aquestion at you guys. JJ,
Natalie and your other sister,who's the one who's having those
direct conversations with mom.
But I had to look at my dad, andhe asked me a question that I'll
(29:20):
never forget. He goes. I wantyou to be honest with me, am I
ever going to be able to comehome? Am I ever going to be able
to walk again? Because they endup putting two rods in his back
in hopes that he would getbetter. But I met with many of
the physicians. I met with allhis all his support staff, and
they basically told him he'llnever walk again. You'll need to
be on support systems in anursing home. I gave him the
(29:43):
right i This is what I said tohim, No, Dad, there's no way,
unless you know if you did comehome, this is what it will take.
This is what it will be. But youwon't. You're, I don't think
you'll be able to come home. Hegoes, and he looked at me, goes,
well, thank you. He died threedays later. He went to the rehab
center. And he died in his sleepon his own, and I, I'm grateful
(30:04):
for that. I'll be honest withyou, yeah, but who among you
sisters does that? Does the sothe guest turns at the table on
you, who the among you threesisters is the one who has that
direct conversation with yourparents?
JJ (30:19):
So I had the the honor of going through the DNRs and all
of that with mom, and that wasawful, like to have to bring
that up, the all of that, andshe did not want to participate
in that, so, but we had to dothat. And that was in 2019 and
she's changed the she's changedit once, so, but I think we all,
(30:41):
you know, she says, When can Ileave? You know, she always
wants to change her residency.
And that's all of us, Mom, youwe can't leave. You, you know,
Natalie (30:49):
yeah, and we equally say that. I mean, that's the
thing. So while JJ had thatconversation, and I think the
important thing is that betweenthe three of us, we share when
those conversations happen, andwe reinforce, we do not
undermine one another in thoseconversations, to try to give, I
say this respectfully, falsehope, because our mom's not
(31:13):
going to be able to leaveskilled nursing. And so as much
as we say, you know, mom willsay to us, I really want to
leave. We want you to too, butwe just can't, because there's
not enough human capital andresource to be able to be able
to support you in the home. It'sjust it is just too much and and
(31:36):
then for us, when you're directwith mom, it makes it makes it a
little bit easier to becausethat way you're not like, oh,
well, you know, maybe, oh, we'llthink about it like, I don't. I
think you're right. I don'tthink you give false hope. I
think you have to say, this isour reality. This is where we're
at. And I'm gonna to be reallyblunt, my parents didn't plan
(31:59):
the way they needed to. And Idon't think when you come from a
rural from rural areas, butdoesn't really matter. Most
folks live paycheck to paycheck.
We grew up, my parents livepaycheck to paycheck. There
wasn't this massive savings. Andthat's when people relied on
pensions. And they relied onthey thought their retirement
from their company where, youknow, my dad's pension was going
to was going to do it. And, youknow, the way that they chose,
(32:22):
which we did not know about theway they chose to do the
disbursement of our dad'spension. They didn't expect our
dad to die first. The plan forthem was not that. And God was
like, that's cute. I'll showyou. And, and so when dad died
three years after he retired,and he was 55 when he retired, I
mean, and so they they front endloaded, because Dad always
(32:44):
worked side jobs. He's alwayshad second and third things that
he was doing, rather rebuildingcars or painting cars or things
that he loved to do, and doingsiding on houses, that's how
he's going to earn supplementalfunds. And then dad wasn't
there, and so, and then they ranthrough the front end side. So I
think it's, you know, and I knowthat you talk about this, you
(33:05):
and Selma probably talk aboutthis from a work standpoint,
you've probably gotten into thisis you also can't bankrupt
yourself, and so you have tofind this fine line of how much
support can I give to myparents, while also not it
negatively impacting me and myspouse, because it's not just
me. If I was single, that'sprobably a different, a
different financial story. Butwhen you have a spouse and you
(33:29):
have kids, you have to thinkthat. I think that shifts the
way that you think about things.
Yeah, so I'm gonna, I want totake a break here real quick,
because we're at that breakpoint, and then we'll be right
back. We're going to continueon.
Unknown (33:42):
Care forward is a technology platform that
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online@careforward.ioAll right, everybody. Zach is
back. I love
Natalie (34:02):
it. Exactly. That I want
JJ (34:06):
to make sure so I have like so we have continued to have so
many questions for Zach. So Iwant to make sure that my I
guess I have a big question,because we talk so much, and you
advocate so much for working andworking caregivers. Near at what
stage, first of all, during yourfather's illness, before he
passed, did you and Phyllis ownthe home care business? And if
(34:28):
you did during those stages, wasit different being self employed
versus being corporatelyemployed?
Unknown (34:35):
Yeah, all right, so that's a great question. So my
father had a stroke of 2006 hepassed away in 2011 I started
the home care with Phyllis in2009 so we did have the home
care and it's funny, you saythat because I had a home care
business and I couldn't convincemy mother to get help in
Charlotte with a home carebusiness that was part of my
(34:58):
franchise system. I even broughtthe only. Her of comfort care.
We had a comfort care business.
Shout out to comfort care, and Ibrought him, Phil, as his name,
great guy. I bring him into thehouse. My mom's giving him
baklava, the pastries. She'sbeing real polite, and we're
having a 30 minute conversation.
You know, my dad's sitting inthe corner just shaking his head
(35:19):
because he knows this isn'tgoing anywhere. And with my in
Phil, God bless his soul, he'ssuch a great guy. We walk into
the driveway. When he leaves, hegoes, I thought that went really
well, and I go, now that waslike the tiger smiling at you,
about to eat whatever you havein your hand.
You got two pieces of baklava.
You're not gettinganything. That's That's it. And
(35:39):
my mother never, never used homecare until it was too late to
use home care. So that's whatwas really frustrating. But
yeah, we ran that business. Nowyou ask a great question, is it
easier when, when you know whenyou're running your own business
and and JJ, you, you made such agreat point about that when we
talk to you for our stories fromreal caregivers, working
(36:04):
caregivers, and thank you forthat, both of you for doing that
for us, for someone on ourwebsite. But no, it's not easier
in the beginning. It might feeleasier because you do have the
luxury of, oh, I can break away.
But guess what was happening? Mybusiness suffered big time
because I was no longer I was onthe I was the marketing,
(36:27):
building the clientrelationship, developing the
business side, and Laura Phylliswas the back office, and all the
hiring and training. And so whenI would leave, I'd leave for
three days, four days, payingout of my own pocket. You know,
I would travel. I stayed in ahotel for, you know, reasons we
talked about earlier, because Isold my mother's home, and so
(36:50):
all these expenses were addingup, and I would come back, and
it took 24 hours to try tocleanse yourself from from the
emotion that you're goingthrough and from all the issues.
And guess what? You also havefollow up phone calls, because
when you're down there, you'retrying to meet as many people as
possible, right? The executivedirector, you're meeting with
(37:12):
the director of nursing, you'remeeting with medication
specialist, dietitian. You meetwith all these people that may
or may not see you on the spot,and then you have follow up
visits with them. You've got thesocial worker, you got so many
people you got to talk to. Andif you don't see them, they're
returning your calls when youcome back to work. And you
meanwhile, you're trying to hitthe ground running with all
(37:33):
these client issues that Philsays, Yeah, I'll come back. I
will have literally 12 messages.
I mean, anyone who's familiarwith the home care business,
it's a 24/7 dumpster fire thatyou're trying to put out all the
time, right? So it's true, Igotta tell you, when we say in
our business and Natalie, JJ,you know this very well, because
you preach this, caregivingtakes a physical, mental,
(37:55):
emotional and financial toll onyou, I didn't see it at first. I
would say, in the first sixmonths of going down to
Charlotte back and forth, Ididn't see it. But man, oh man,
the next two years, I paid areally big price for it, a
really big price for it, and mybusiness did suffer. And so I
highly suggest to caregivers outthere, even in your own
(38:20):
business. To your point earlier,Natalie, about, you know whether
you're single or not, and JJ, toabout having a plan. You've got
to have a plan. You've got tohave provisions in place. You've
got to have people that you'regoing to focus on. And hopefully
you can do it early in thisjourney, because I didn't do it
my first time around. Idefinitely did it with my
(38:42):
mother. I really, yeah,
Natalie (38:46):
so let's, let's say lessons learned. Because I'm
looking at our time, I'm like,gosh, we could talk like, I know
we got to talk about hisbesties. Oh God, you have to
talk about your mom. Becausehere's the thing, I love, that
your mom is 95 so you got goodgenes.
Unknown (39:05):
Her skin looks better than mine. I'm not kidding, she
looks fantastic.
Natalie (39:09):
Yeah, tell you right now. So, so what you know? You
know we talked with our friendlike it was like with Paul Jay,
if you remember him pasta, Ithink it's wait. I'm gonna
butcher.
Unknown (39:20):
Paul's last potassium.
Thank you.
Natalie (39:23):
And so he learned from caring for his parents, and one
that I think his dad was first,and then his mom and and he
learned, so what were the thingsthat you did differently when it
came to supporting your mom,because your dad passes, and
then, then what happens? Becausenow your mom is solo and she
doesn't drive you mentioned, andso nothing says like, well,
(39:47):
that's like a fart in church.
Unknown (39:49):
How am I
Natalie (39:50):
going to get her around? Am I just going to send
her an Uber the whole time? AndI live in New Jersey?
Unknown (39:55):
I think it's time to bring Barry and Julie back.
Because what I'm about to talkabout mom. Definitely, I could
use some therapy. Its mom is apiece of work. God bless you,
mom. I love you, mom, but youare a piece of work. You really
are. I mean, my, my, my motheris one amazing, amazing woman.
(40:16):
Phyllis has always said this,and she's 100% right. My mom was
born in the wrong generation. Ifshe was born in our generation,
she'd be a kick ass CEO of anorganization that you would not
want to work for, because shewill look at you in the face and
say, You're a good worker, butyou're going to be terminated
(40:38):
tomorrow. That's it. That's allthere is to it. I'm sorry. I
can't keep you around anymore.
So lessons that I learned, and Ilearned quite a few, let's talk
about some of the most importantones. Number one, the sacrifices
I was making with my family andmy finances. I slowed that down.
My kids are now much older in2011 2012 so when my father
(41:01):
passed away now, we startedthinking about mom, who lived
alone like you guys did. Youguys did the exact same thing.
Your father passed away soearly, and you kind of say,
well, mom's okay, but we'll keepchecking on her. We did the same
again. My brother ran arestaurant for six days a week.
And his wife, God bless her.
(41:23):
She's a saint. You know, shewould go by check on mom two,
three times a week. But nobodywas really seeing her every day.
She was living by herself in ahouse, and things were okay for
the first few years, like youguys saw. But then around 2000
Oh, shoot, she did pretty wellfor about five, six years, and
then around 2018 19, it youknow, the cocky hit the fan?
(41:48):
Yeah, she got she gothospitalized three times in four
months for dehydration and UTI,and that's what I raised the red
flags to the siblings. Now, mylessons learned number one, I
don't immediately jump on aplane. I don't immediately spend
money without thinking about it,because even though we were
doing really well with ourbusiness, my kids were older, we
(42:10):
started to go to colleges. Ireally needed to stop and think
and think long term. Okay, thisis the beginning. I may have to
start going down to NorthCarolina every quarter. How am I
going to do that? And are thereother options? Can we maybe hire
somebody where we all split thecost, and have somebody, kind of
(42:32):
like a Geriatric Care Manager oran aging care life specialist
that they are called nowadays,that can help us oversee this,
right? Mom wouldn't have anypart of that. I could tell you
that. But the second lesson Ilearned is start including my
siblings. I started doing emailswhere I included all of them. Of
course, brother George doesn'tdo emails, but, or when he does,
(42:54):
they're ones that you don't wantto read. But, you know, and only
of late, like the last threeyears, where texting is becoming
more it's easier to use. I nowdo group taxes every single time
I talk about Mom, it's my sisterin law, it's my brother, it's my
sister, we're all on the sametext again. George, please read
(43:15):
your texts, please. So I, I, sothe second lesson I learned was
to include my siblings. I have amuch better relationship with my
brother now, and my sister ismuch more involved. You know, I
will reach out to her. I say,Hey, can you listen? I'm in the
middle of a lot of stuff. Canyou can you reach out to the
nurse? Because, you know, youcan't call the director nursing.
(43:36):
Expect them to call answer thephone at a nursing home, right?
But, but here's the third mostimportant, I think, lesson I
learned again from my dad isyou've got to have those direct
conversations with mom. Youcan't fudge it. You can't give
in, but you got to respect herindependence and dignity, okay?
And you've got to figure outwhose role is what between the
(43:58):
three siblings, okay? So Bessie,my sister, is kind of a
pacifier. Oh, Mom, it's gonna beokay. Don't worry. You know,
things gonna be good. Zach's alittle tough, but it's okay.
George, in emergencies, we'll goand see her and help us with
something on site, boots, youknow, strap on the boots. I will
reach out.
(44:18):
He sounds like us badly, right?
Natalie (44:21):
Yeah. Right.
Unknown (44:23):
But here's the most important thing, that now mom's
also a martyr. Just you guysknow mom, mom's a handful. You
know Mom, mom, who will remindme to this day, you should kick
me out of my house. You kickedme out of my house. You will
remind me to this day. But letme remind everybody listening at
95 years old. Her skin looksbetter than mine. She is well
(44:45):
taken care of. She is hydrated.
She hasn't had a UTI in over twoyears, right? They're on top of
the care there. Of course, ittakes a lot of due diligence, as
we all know. Shout out to Susiesinger Carter. Her, who just
came out with an amazingdocumentary that we all need to
watch about nursing homes. Okay,but here was the most important
(45:06):
thing that I have to share. Whenit was when she had hospitalized
three times in four months. Iflew down to Charlotte, and I
met with her face to face.
That's the only way. And now shestarted getting hard, hard of
hearing too, which really makesthings difficult over a phone.
Which, by the way, not manypeople know this, but hearing
aids are great for human voice,but they're not great for
(45:28):
mechanical voice, which meansTVs and radios and phones.
Didn't know that, did you? So,no, yeah, yeah. So it's very
difficult, even when people havehearing aids to try to have
phone conversations. And I'm along distance caregiver. I speak
to my mom almost every day,especially back then, but
anyway, I go meet with my mom,and I say to her, Look, Mom, you
(45:49):
can't stay home alone anymore. Ineed to bring in care. I know
you were always resistance inthe past, but I've got to bring
in care. She said, nope, nope.
Nobody coming to my house. Isaid, Okay, so here's Plan B,
you're going to have to go to aCCRC, right with these
continuous care retirementcommunities where you'll be
there and live in an apartment,I can get people to come in
check on you, and God forbid,you know something bad happens,
(46:13):
at least you can stay in thatcommunity. It's like, she's
like, No, I'm not going. I'm notleaving my house. I said, Well,
here's your third choice. Here'syour third choice. You're going
to fall, you're going to have abad fall, or you're going to
have a bad hospitalization, andyou won't have a choice, and
you're going to go straight to anursing home. So you tell me of
those three choices. Which onedo you want? Because I'm not
(46:35):
leaving till you give me one ofthose. And you know, I have to
go back to work, I have to goback to my family. And it took
about 24 hours for her to, oh,just sit there, and just like
she was knitting, and she wasangry, she was just angry,
angry. But she had to sit andyou have to let it be their
decision, right? Yeah, but youhad to do it in a way where she
(46:57):
they have to pick. It's amultiple choice. It's not an
open ended question, and that'swhat I learned from my first
caregiver journey. I at leasthad the wherewithal, the tools,
the resources, and so once youmade the decision, I hired
somebody in Charlotte to take usaround, right? So shout out to
placement specialists who arefantastic. And because I'm in
(47:22):
the business, and because I hadComfort Care in Charlotte, he
was able to help me. And by theway, a great resource for all of
you, wherever you live in thiscountry, if you ever want to
know, where do I turn forresources, call a reputable home
care agency, even if you're notgoing to use them. They know all
the great resources in the area,because they work with them.
They're referral partners. Sothat is one great way, and it's
(47:44):
a good way to build arelationship with the whole care
agency. But they're happy ifthey're a good agency, they're
happy to volunteer a number ofgreat resources. And that's
where I learned about an agingagent, in place specialist and
also a placement specialist. Andso they took us around, and mom
picked one so we were able tofind a CCRC. It was great, but
guess what was happening? Sherefused to let people come see
(48:07):
her. So we're like, All right,well, at least she's in a
facility where somethinghappens. The Director of Nursing
over the assisted living couldpop over and see her, but she
ended up getting hospitalizedagain a couple of times. She
just wasn't taking care ofherself. And so she actually
ended up having a badhospitalization, and she lost
her ability to walk. And so Ihad some issues with the
(48:30):
assisted living there at theCCRC, you know, and so I moved
her out of there, and I had togo take her to an assisted
living now, this is all duringcovid, just, you know, so I
Natalie (48:41):
moved her out of her house. That's even worse it was
during covid.
Unknown (48:45):
Yes, all during covid, I moved her out of her house.
Six months later, I moved herinto a CCRC, a continuous care
retirement community. Threemonths later, I took her out of
the CCRC and moved her into anassisted living. And then out of
that assisted living, she onlylasted a month, and then I she
ended up going to a nursing homewith rehab visits all weaved in
(49:06):
there. So within a year, shemoved three times during covid
and Phyllis and I had to go downthere and do all this. You know,
as far as moving her, I meanpacking her up, it took us seven
days. We spent seven days downthere to pack up that house,
sell it and move it. So, man,I'm tired, just talking about
it, you
Natalie (49:25):
know? Well, it's exhausting, if you think about
it. I mean, and you all are, youknow, you've got kids. Phyllis
is, is also doing have, youknow, honestly, as I'm saying,
Phyllis has her life too.
Unknown (49:37):
Well, she's running the business. Well, I'm gone. I
mean, we sold our business in2021 so we ran, we've been
running the business all thistime too. So, yeah, but it, you
know, it's a challenge. Lastthing I'll share, what have I
learned again? So I was tellingyou, so, oh yeah. So this is
really important again, forthose of you planning and
(49:58):
financially, we were. Honing onthe financial piece. So we sold
my mother's home. I was $400,000that only lasted three and a
half years. So we went throughthat. The only saving grace for
my mother, and again, this iswhy she would been a kick ass
CEO, is that she my father,bought the property that the
restaurant was on, andthankfully, thankfully, which,
(50:20):
again, she put me in charge tohelp her, and we were able to
sell that property, and she wasable to get some good finances
that not only helped pay for anursing home, but then I asked
her to help pick up some of myexpenses. And I had, I have no
shame in that, because I'vespent many years of doing that
on my own. And she said,Absolutely, you know. So she
(50:40):
will pay for my flights, pay formy hotel, and I go down there
every other month, and I willsee her, and we'll spend three
four days. I rent a van, whichshe pays for, and I rip out the
front seat, and I put her in thefront and we go paint the town
red for three days, you know?
We'll go see dad in thecemetery, which she never gets
to do. We'll go we'll go to somerestaurants. We'll go do things.
We'll go to Walmart. Holymackerel. Male caregivers out
(51:03):
there, if you take your motherto Walmart and you're shopping
for bras, be ready to beembarrassed.
JJ (51:15):
That may be the best advice that we will give anyway.
Natalie (51:18):
You know what your needs change as you get older.
Zach, a little bit more support.
That's right.
Unknown (51:26):
I gotta tell you this, Phyllis has, you know, find Zach
on the phone, and she knew I wasat Walmart in Charlotte, and
then she checks a half hourlater, I'm still at Walmart. She
checks a half hour I was inthere for an hour and a half,
and then she calls me, goes, Doyou need help? Do you need to
send somebody like 911, to getyou out of there?
Natalie (51:44):
This is the moment where she says, sounds like your
your old boss. Do we need tocall a woman in to help? That's
the moment that you're like youprobably do. So I will say it's
a different dynamic. And wealways say, you know, it's not
preferring one parent of theother. But I think the
challenges, like we would haveexperienced if our if the roles
(52:05):
were reversed, and it was ourdad, it would be very, very
different for us because, butalso the relationship was
different. And so I thinkthat's, that's what's so unique,
if you think about being adultchildren, trying to care for
your parents and support them atany level is the relationships
are different. They continue toevolve, yet not evolve at all.
(52:26):
Like your mom saying, No, I'mnot going to do that, buddy, and
you're, I'm the mom, and you'reprobably the Son, and so so I
will have to, I do have totransition this on because I
can't believe, like we're wayover our time, but we don't
really care. And so where that'sour standard answer, we're of
our time care, because this isso important. This is such an
important conversation. So wehave to do sister questions. And
(52:49):
there's some important things Iknow JJ is going to ask. I know
her question because I alreadyjust know it. But go ahead, Jay,
why don't you go ahead andstart. Okay, I have two,
JJ (52:56):
one of a serious but my second one is not. So my first
question is, Zach, how did youjust tell me what you're doing
now with Selma, and what got youinto that your advocacy and why
that's so important for workingcaregivers?
Unknown (53:08):
Oh, yeah, thanks for asking so, so, um, when, when I
was when I mentioned earlierSelma and I got on the phone,
after 10 years, we startedsharing each other's caregiver
story. And I'm like, mygoodness, I can't believe that.
You know, we ought to dosomething about this. And we
said, we said, let's go, let'swrite a book. And so we started
writing a book. And I'm not awriter, she's the writer, but I
would write a chapter. She wrotea chapter. And finally we
(53:31):
agreed. And so I love you,Selma, you're Yang, I'm Yang.
And she said, Zach, this isn'tworking out. Maybe I should
write it. You edit. I go. Okay,thank God, that's great. I love
group work. Yes, yes, and so.
But halfway through it, youknow, I sold my business, and I
took two years off. I retiredPhyllis, and I traveled. I spent
a lot of time on LinkedIn. I gotto meet you phenomenal ladies.
(53:53):
I've met a lot of I've met over100 plus caregiver advocates
that I just shout out to all ofyou out there, but the more I
started looking at this, Istarted thinking, You know what,
there's a lot of books aboutcaregiving. I think we need to
change. I think we need to focusmore on maybe working with
employers so that we could tryto do a larger audience. Because
(54:14):
of my HR background, because ofSelma legal background, we have
a lot of corporate experiencebecause of our personal
caregiving background. We have alot of experience because of my
professional caregivingbackground. It's really maybe we
should bring those together andsee if we could try to help
employers. And so we justchanged midstream, which I love
that about us, and so becausewe're both not young spring
(54:37):
chickens, and she hates when Isay that, but before the end of
this year, we are looking andplanning to announce, you know,
our services, which we arereally excited about. We have a
board of advisors that we haveinvited to join us, to guide us
so that we're not typicalconsultants, so that we feel
like that we're getting somegood guidance as to what is
(54:58):
going. To be the best approachholistically, to help employers,
because it's great thatemployers might have an erg, or
they may have a benefit here andthere, or they may do a webinar
caregiving, but that's justtrying to put a finger in a hole
where, how do you say it withthe Selma? Does it so well? But
that's like trying to plug ahole, but just another hole
(55:19):
pulls out right? So it's notreally taking care of the
problem. Is just trying thesalute. It's not really a
solution. So that's that's kindof what someone are doing now.
We're really excited about andhope that, hope to share more
about it by year end.
JJ (55:33):
Yeah, yeah. If your employer stinks in the caregiving world,
you need to send them to Zach.
Natalie (55:41):
Is what we're saying.
Selma anyway, on LinkedIn andon, I mean, that's really,
that's where you're going tostay up to date. And they have
lots of great conversations. Wewere on their show, and it was
just a ton of fun. And reallytalking about because, you know,
I think it's Zach, seven out of10 individuals are also
caregivers, are also work,either full time or part time,
(56:02):
and so we can't afford not to. Ithink that's what we we have to
have these conversations. Andcaregiver issues are business
issues, and if you ignore that,then it's going to impact your
bottom line. Let's just bereally clear. And so we this is
a recruitment, a retention and aculture issue and so and
caregivers, I like to say, aresome of your best employees. And
(56:24):
so do not be afraid to to employthose caregivers, because they
can multitask like no other.
Unknown (56:32):
Why don't we do this?
You know, I love what you said.
JJ, but why don't we just softenit just a tad? Because I'm an
Aquarius, so I like this, youknow, I'm a lover and a hugger.
So employers out there. If youkind of not doing things right,
come on to this show first andconfess, and then pop over to
Zach and Selma, and then we'llhelp take area. How's that?
That's a great idea. I thinkthat's the challenge,
(56:53):
employer, listening to HRleader, manager out there,
listening to this show. Come onto the show first, talk about it
with these two amazingtherapists, and they come over,
we'll help you out.
JJ (57:04):
We'll hear you. Okay, here's my funny. Why did the restaurant
get named Zach? Oh, I knew wewere going. That was my funny. I
just answer, and then Nataliegets her question.
Unknown (57:17):
Okay, so every non Greek is going to shake their
head when I say this, and everyGreek is gonna nod their head
when I say this. Okay, so in1975 when my father purchased a
restaurant trying to find a namefor it, obviously, Greeks name
restaurants after themselves,Jimmy's, Joe's, George's, right?
Well, my dad's name is Jimmy. InGreek, it's Demetrius, and there
(57:38):
were already a few Jimmy's inCharlotte. My brother's name is
George, and there was alreadyGeorge and Jimmy the most
popular names in Greece. Yeah,heaven forbid you name a
restaurant after a female. So mymom and my sister were out of
the fixer,
Natalie (57:53):
although that's got a ring to it. Oh, I
Unknown (57:56):
like that. Bessie. We missed our calling bessie's
Burgers. So Zach was a veryunknown name. I mean, now people
call their dogs Zach. So, youknow, Zach was very, not very
popular. Had a little, you know,uniqueness to it. So my dad
decided to call it Zach, and itworked because I'm the only one
of the three that stayed inthere. Worked for eight years,
(58:18):
even though my brother took itover. Shout out to my brother
for doing a good job. He took itover and ran it over and ran it
for 25 years.
JJ (58:24):
So love it, but by default, basically, Zach is what you're
saying. You won by default.
Natalie (58:28):
It was fine. It was the last option. The last option,
Unknown (58:35):
let me tell you, it was, it was amazing being named.
You know, a restaurant namedafter you. I never got tired of
it. I never got tired to thisday, when I hear people talk
about Zach's hamburgers, it justgives me a lot of pride. And I
gotta tell you, shoot, it's wewere in a couple of films.
(58:56):
Shoot. I'm trying to rememberhomeland, homeland, I think
second season, episode nine, theentire parse part of the season
was filmed right there, Zachhamburgers there, you know, it's
just, it's just, it's just aninfamous restaurant that was
there for so many years, andwhen it closed, it really ticked
off a lot of people. It reallydid. For three days, there were
(59:16):
long lines around that blockbecause it was the last three
days the restaurant was open, Ishit. I flew my entire family
down there for the last sixhours of Zach's hamburgers. It
was amazing. It was great,awesome.
Natalie (59:28):
Oh, all right. And so I always like to end with one last
question. Always the one that wealways do, what is your favorite
guilty pleasure? What is the onething?
Unknown (59:38):
Yeah, okay. And again, I hope Mom's not listening,
which I know she's not, becauseshe could barely use the TV
remote, one of my favoriteguilty pleasures. And I've
listened to your show, and I'vebeen thinking about this a lot,
and I will tell you, this is atrue guilty pleasure, and you'll
know why it's guilty. So whenI'm down visiting Mom, I'm
literally with her, 24/7, forthree days, right? And in the
(59:59):
middle. The day, you know, Iencourage her go and rest in the
bed, plus she takes her waterpills. So that's the time to
unload, get get changed,exactly. Doing that for you at
Walmart, I can assure you that.
And so I let her stay in her,you know, in her bed to rest, or
her recliner to rest her back,because she can't walk, right?
She's in a wheelchair the wholetime, and in three hours between
(01:00:19):
like two to five, and she alwaystells me, go to the hotel. Rest,
Zach, rest, you know, I go,okay, Mom, I'll go to the hotel
and rest. I don't go to thehotel. Rest, what I do in
Charlotte. Shout out toCharlotte, famous for a lot of
great breweries. And I lovebreweries. And so between two
and five, I go to a brewery, andI sit back and have a couple of
(01:00:42):
brews, find an outdoor one,relax. Sometimes I'll sneak a
cigar in and just chill and justI'm in heaven. I don't even get
on my phone. I'm just like dad.
I promise you, I would take careof mom and my but, man, you
(01:01:03):
could have left me with a littlemore something here, Dad,
Natalie (01:01:06):
I mean, but then again, that's hilarious.
Unknown (01:01:09):
Those are my guilty pleasures.
Natalie (01:01:12):
That's a good one. I really, really like that. I like
that a lot. Well, Zach, thanksso much for being with us. This
has been an absolute pleasure.
We knew it was going to be a tonof fun, and so we're just so
grateful to call you a bestie.
You are our brother in carewithout question, and we love
you, and we love Phyllis and thekids. And I just, I feel like we
(01:01:33):
always have, I mean, we can'tNOT say Phyllis. I mean, we love
her, and she's this teenyperson, so thanks. She is really
comes
Unknown (01:01:42):
up to my hip as JJ says, so does everybody else.
But yeah, I love you. I love youguys too, so much. And thank you
for I really mean it from thebottom of my heart, the work
you're doing, the stories you'retelling, the resources that you
guys are giving, your crews thatyou're doing out there. I mean,
we need this. We really needthis. And I just thank you for
the bottom of my heart that youguys are dedicating so much time
(01:02:03):
and energy and resources behindus.
Natalie (01:02:05):
Thank you absolutely.
Zach Jadey, when
JJ (01:02:07):
take us out, absolutely guys, thank you for listening,
and until we confess again,we'll see you next time.
Natalie (01:02:15):
Bye, bye. Well, friends, that's a wrap on this
week's confession again. Thankyou so much for listening, but
before you go, please take amoment to leave us a review and
tell your friends about theconfessions podcast. Don't
forget to visit our website tosign up for our newsletter.
You'll also find the videorecording of all of our episodes
(01:02:38):
on the confessions website andour YouTube channel. Don't
worry, all the details areincluded in the show notes
below. We'll see you nextTuesday when we come together to
confess again. Till then, takecare of you. Okay, let's talk
disclaimers. You may besurprised to find out, but we
(01:03:00):
are not medical professionalsand are not providing any
medical advice. If you have anymedical questions, we recommend
that you talk with a medicalprofessional of your choice. As
always, my sisters and I, atConfessions of a reluctant
caregiver, have taken care inselecting speakers, but the
opinions of our speakers aretheirs alone. The views and
(01:03:22):
opinions stated in this podcastare solely those of the
contributors and not necessarilythose of our distributors or
hosting company. This podcast iscopyrighted, and no part can be
reproduced without the expresswritten consent of the
sisterhood of care LLC. Thankyou for listening to the
confessions of our reluctantcaregiver podcast.
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My Favorite Murder is a true crime comedy podcast hosted by Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark. Each week, Karen and Georgia share compelling true crimes and hometown stories from friends and listeners. Since MFM launched in January of 2016, Karen and Georgia have shared their lifelong interest in true crime and have covered stories of infamous serial killers like the Night Stalker, mysterious cold cases, captivating cults, incredible survivor stories and important events from history like the Tulsa race massacre of 1921. My Favorite Murder is part of the Exactly Right podcast network that provides a platform for bold, creative voices to bring to life provocative, entertaining and relatable stories for audiences everywhere. The Exactly Right roster of podcasts covers a variety of topics including historic true crime, comedic interviews and news, science, pop culture and more. Podcasts on the network include Buried Bones with Kate Winkler Dawson and Paul Holes, That's Messed Up: An SVU Podcast, This Podcast Will Kill You, Bananas and more.
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Dateline NBC
Current and classic episodes, featuring compelling true-crime mysteries, powerful documentaries and in-depth investigations. Follow now to get the latest episodes of Dateline NBC completely free, or subscribe to Dateline Premium for ad-free listening and exclusive bonus content: DatelinePremium.com