January 28, 2025 • 52 mins
"What would 10-year-old me do?” That exact question led Kim Merrikin, founder of @movefatgirl, to reconnect with the hobbies she’d tucked away as a young girl. After feeling fat-shamed out of sports, Kim ignored her interest in physical activities for decades, believing there wasn’t a place for her in these spaces. But today, she's rewriting that story—pursuing surfing, hockey, and advocating for inclusivity in sports despite the severe lack of size diversity in available gear. Her journey is proof that sports and outdoor spaces are for everyone, no matter their body size.
Kim’s honesty and determination highlight both the barriers and beauty of getting back into sports, especially for women looking to surf and thrive in a world that often feels body-exclusive. If you’ve ever questioned where you fit in, her story will speak to you.
In this episode of Confessions of a Surf Lady, the first women’s surfing podcast, we chat with Kim about what it took to reclaim her athletic identity, the body stigma she’s faced, and the frustration of finding gear that actually fits. Kim’s candor is a breath of fresh air—she’ll have you thinking twice about what “inclusivity” really means, and she encourages all of us to see the ocean (and any sport we love) as a place that’s ours to enjoy no matter what size or shape you come in.
Main Themes:
Reclaiming Joy in Sports Despite Societal Barriers
"What would 10-year-old me do?" became Kim’s guiding question to reconnect with the sports and hobbies she loved but set aside. Her journey reveals the deep joy and confidence that come from reclaiming sports spaces as a plus-size woman and challenges the idea that only certain body types "belong" in these spaces.
The Challenge of Gear Accessibility in Sports
Kim opens up about the lack of size-inclusive gear in the surfing and sports industries, sharing her frustrations in finding essential equipment, like wetsuits and hockey pads, in plus sizes. This conversation highlights the need for size diversity in gear to make sports more accessible for everyone.
Body Neutrality and Creating an Inclusive Ocean Space
Moving beyond body positivity, Kim talks about embracing body neutrality—focusing on what the body can do rather than how it looks. She encourages a view of the ocean and sports spaces as accessible to all, fostering a welcoming, inclusive environment for women of every shape and size.
Resources
- Follow Kim: Get inspired by Kim’s journey and advocacy for size inclusivity on Instagram at @movefatgirl.
- Shop Dip and get 15% OFF with the code "confessionsofasurflady" at checkout at Dipalready.com
- Join our global women’s surf community — The Surf Société — and start your free 7-day trial today. 🔗 Click here to join now
- Shop Dip and get 15% OFF with the code "confessionsofasurflady" at checkout at
Send me a Message! Be sure to leave your contact info.
Confessions of a Surf Lady, women's surfing podcast, is supported by The Surf Société, our unique digital women's surfing platform where we come together to
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Laura Day (00:01):
Hey lady, welcome to Confessions of a surf lady, a
podcast by the surf society. Forso long, women have been
misrepresented by the surfindustry, only highlighting a
narrow and exclusive version ofa who a surf lady can be. But
you and I both know that thereis so much more to women surfing
than that this, this podcastright here, is a place to tell
(00:25):
our story how we want to tellit, at Confessions of a surf
lady. You'll meet everyday surfladies doing amazing things in
their local communities, as wellas pros, World Champs, big wave
riders and badass, livinglegends from women's surf
history, all sharing their stokeon this blossoming Global
(00:46):
Women's surf culture. What'seven more special, though, is
that you, yes, you will get achance to participate in the
conversation by leaving me yourconfessions. I'm your host,
Laura Day. Think of me as yournew favorite surf sister,
connecting you to your beautifulGlobal Women's surf community,
helping you boost yourconfidence before you head out
(01:07):
for your next surf, and evendropping a few surf tips from
the surf society along the way.
If you want to stay connectedwith me, find me on Instagram
that's at Confessions of a surflady. Kind of use that like my
personal account, and then goahead and follow at surf
society. That's s, u, r, F, S,O, C, i, e, t, e, there you'll
find a handful of free resourcesto help you through your surfing
(01:30):
journey. All right, lady, thanksagain for joining me here at
Confessions of a surf lady,where we're cultivating a global
women's surf culture throughthoughtful conversation. Let's
get to our episode. Yeah,
Unknown (01:45):
welcome to the show.
Kim, hello. I'm so excited. I
Laura Day (01:50):
know I'm so stoked to have you here. I've been
following you on Instagram for awhile, and when your account
first came up, move that girl. Ijust thought it was so
refreshing, like the way youtell stories, the way that you
share your experiences, isreally relatable. I want to just
start with you sharing whatmotivated you to start this
account, because it actuallyhasn't been that long, has it?
(02:13):
Couple years?
Unknown (02:14):
Yeah, I think there's some day in September that saved
on my calendar that is theanniversary. It just turned
three last month. Two, three. Ithink
Laura Day (02:27):
page. I'm like, Wait, am I what? Which year
Unknown (02:29):
has been three, because I started the account before I
started surfing. Okay, so I knowlike my starting to surf journey
was part of that, because I alsotook swimming lessons before I
learned to surf, and that waspart of it, nice, not a long
standing account. But, you know,I'm starting to feel like it's
maybe not stable while I've beenmoving, but stable,
Laura Day (02:49):
yeah. What was your original inspiration? Tell
everyone more about youraccount.
Unknown (02:54):
Yeah, it was really, I was like an athlete as a kid,
and I was in a larger body thantwo, and experienced some gear
back barriers. Like, I grew upplaying softball, but then,
like, because of really, like,bullying kind of stuff, I got
out of sports, out of any sortof, like, physical activity
space for about a decade, andthen started diving back into
(03:18):
it, but found a bunch ofbarriers. Like, year based
barriers. I started playinghockey in 2019 and not only is
there just like this really,really, really limited amount of
women's hockey gear, but there,at the time, was zero plus size
women's hockey gear. At thispoint, as of last year, I have
(03:39):
like, a pair of hockey chestpads designed for a woman that
fits me, and they still don'tmake pants in my size, so I'm
wearing men's pants, and thatmatters when you're playing a
full contact sport and you havea differently shaped pelvis that
needs to be protected. So, like,it was kind of born out of,
like, this journey of gettingback into sports as an adult now
(03:59):
that I'm, like, mentally overthe social stigma of being a
person in a larger body. Insports, I'm still facing the
barriers of gear, like, whetherthat's active wear or the safety
gear, like, well, probably, I'msure we'll wind up talking about
wetsuits tonight. So every sportthat I've gotten into there has
just been barrier after barrierafter barrier. The first, like,
(04:21):
real big barrier I hit wasgetting into kayaking and
finding a life jacket that fitme. And I had, like, a terrible
experience in a recreationalequipment store that shall go
unnamed here in Seattle, like Iwent shopping for a life jacket,
and I was like, This is what Ineed. And the salesman, like,
literally told me you're notgoing to find anything that fits
(04:43):
you. And I was like, really. SoI left the store and went and
found one that fit me elsewhere.
But it was actually it wasreally hard to find that life
jacket. Every step I've taken toget into a new sport, there has
been some sort of gear basedbarrier, and that was really the
impetus for starting the. Count,and since then, it's grown to
kind of talking about all sortsof barriers and experience that
people in larger bodiesexperience, but especially in
(05:06):
the sporting world. I try tofocus on sports based stuff, but
every now and then, I'll have,like, just a regular life rant,
you know?
Laura Day (05:18):
Yeah, I love your rants. Keep them coming.
Unknown (05:21):
I've got one that's like brewing inside of me right
now.
Laura Day (05:23):
Do we even want to jump right into it? Or do you
want to say that
Unknown (05:27):
I'll save it? I'll save it. It has nothing to do with
surfing. So it's a
Laura Day (05:32):
rant nonetheless. I'm sure it needs to be heard. So
being a child that like stoppeddoing sports because you felt
like you were bullied and youdidn't feel like there's a space
for you. What kind of things didyou have to overcome to then
come into adulthood and be like,I want to do the sports that I'm
passionate about?
Unknown (05:47):
Yeah, that's a great question. When I turned 30, you
know, you know you're goingthrough, like, the decade shift,
and you're self evaluating everytime you change a decade. You
know, I'm coming up on the nextdecade, soon, so, like almost
kind of hitting that a littlebit again. But when I turned 30,
I started really looking at selfevaluating, when was the last
(06:10):
time I felt unencumbered byother people's opinions of me?
And after a lot of, you know,soul searching and internal
thought, I realized that it wasabout when I was, like, 10 years
old. Turns out there's actuallysome like, research and science
to back this up that, like,that's when peer pressure starts
to take, like, a really, really,a much bigger player in a lot of
kids lives is around 10 yearsold, like the third grade. So
(06:33):
when I kind of figured that out,I started kind of asking myself,
like, what would 10 year old Kimdo? And the first decision I
made was 10 year old Kim wanteda pair of purple high tops. So
30 whatever year old Kim, atthat point, bought a pair of
purple high tops, and it becamelike this thing where I was
letting 10 year old Kim make alot of my adult life decisions,
(06:54):
like it started in clothing andkind of expanded 10 year old Kim
wanted to play hockey. So 33year old Kim started playing
hockey. And once I startedplaying hockey, when I turned
30, there was like, this switchthat flipped in my brain that
just said, I do not give a fuckwhat other people think of me.
And I was kind of partnered withthe like, when was the last that
(07:17):
kind of actually led to thethoughts about when was the last
time I felt unencumbered byother people's opinions of me,
like 10 year old, Kim did notcare what other people thought
of her. She just wanted to,like, wear high tops and
backwards hats, and she wantedto play hockey and she wanted to
surf, and she wanted to do allthis stuff that adult Kim had
(07:39):
stayed away from, like, I wouldsay, in part, like finances were
a piece of it. Like, I gottastop taking up very expensive
sports. I really want to learnto die, though, but it was
really this thing where, like, Istarted letting 10 year old Kim,
who did not care what otherpeople thought of her, make a
(08:01):
lot of decisions in my life.
Laura Day (08:03):
Were you letting us 10 year old Kim didn't give a
fuck. Is that why you wereasking about potty language?
Yeah.
Unknown (08:09):
Well, it was like, it like the thought when I turned
30 in, that switch flipped andit was like, suddenly I don't
give a fuck. What other peoplethink of me like? That thought
triggered the sort of selfreflection of when was the last
time I felt unencumbered byother people's opinions of me?
And I keep repeating that samephrase, because that was
actually the phrase that wasgoing through my head, like that
(08:30):
was what I was evaluating. Solike that thought, like, I don't
give a fuck anymore, led tofiguring out which version of me
gave the least fucks. That was10 year old Kim. And it turns
out 10 year old Kim was a dopelittle child with big dreams,
and now she has taken over mylife in so many ways, and she's
(08:52):
so much cooler than 30 year oldKim ever could have mustered up
without her. That's
Laura Day (08:58):
so great for me to hear from you, particularly in
this point in time, because I'vebeen thinking about that a lot
in my life. I'm like, man. Imean, I was a little bit older,
like 1617, I'm like that. Laurawas ruthless as fuck, like that.
Laura was not thinking aboutwhat she had to lose. She was
thinking about missing heropportunities or things, you
(09:21):
know. And then, as an adult likeyou overthink, you tend to
overthink the consequences ofeverything. Oh, yeah. And I've
been going back to that. I'mlike, What would she do? She
would not care, like she wouldhave already been doing the
thing, you know what I mean. Sosharing that, yeah, well, I'm so
glad that you started thisaccount, I think you've shared
(09:41):
so many amazing, inspirationalstories. Let's get to size
inclusivity and sporting gear.
Ooh, yeah, this is the hottopic, yes. And I mean, like,
I'm not a larger body person. Imean, I would say I'm short and
curvy, so that is not exactlythe mold of fitting clothes, but
I don't have as. Much to findingclothing, and even at my size, I
do see the lack of sizeinclusivity. So I want to hear
(10:05):
what you have to say.
Unknown (10:08):
I think there's a lot of social stigma around larger
bodies, obviously. Gosh, I wasthinking about this earlier
today, because today actually,like, I have a bunch of
autoimmune conditions, and Ihave to keep, like, really tight
control over what goes into mybody in order to not have a
bunch of, like, inflammation andflare ups and stuff like that.
Like, there was a Facebookmemory this morning that
(10:29):
reminded me, like, at some pointtoday was like 200 days since
the last time I ate refinedsugars or grains or legumes. At
this point I'm like 2400something days. I'm like, coming
up on seven years of thatlifestyle. So I was reflecting
on this, because every time Iever posted one of those
milestones, people would respondabout the size and shape of my
(10:51):
body, and I got super saltyabout it this morning and posted
a diatribe to Facebook about howlike like some of the biggest
barriers we face in large bodieswhen, especially when it comes
to the sporting world, is thesocial stigma, because a lot of
people look at people in largebodies, fat bodies, plus size
bodies, and think they're dumband lazy and inept and incapable
(11:17):
of activity. And that could notbe farther from the truth. So
there's like these socialbarriers that a lot of people in
sporting communities like, it'ssociety wide. It's like a
sociocultural belief that fatpeople are bad in many different
ways, but it is uniquelynefarious in the sporting
community, because you have alot of people who are very
(11:38):
dedicated to like this physicalactivity that they think
requires thinness, but itactually requires like strength
and mobility, and maybe not eventhat much strength, like no one
ever has said that you have tobe good at things like I hold
this dear to my heart. Do Ialways want to improve? Yes,
surfing brings me joy, and I amterrible at it. As long as it
(12:02):
continues to bring me joy, Iwill continue to be terrible at
it. Do I want to improve? Yes,but you can pry the joy of being
in the ocean from my cold, andit's going to be cold because
I'm in the Pacific Northwest.
Dead fingers,
Laura Day (12:17):
yeah, when you came to visit, that was like the
first time you surfed without awetsuit, right? What did you
wear
Unknown (12:22):
in San Diego? I wore the wetsuit because it was like,
I don't know, April, okay, butthat was the warmest water I've
ever served in the water. Wasthat day. I've never been in
water. I've never served withouta wetsuit. I've never surfed
without booties, quite frankly,because every time I go to
California, I'm afraid ofstingrays. Fair enough. Four,
three is a summer suit here.
Dedication, yeah. Like, ifyou're able to get over the
(12:46):
social stigma of entering into asports space in a large body,
especially as a woman in a largebody, because there's like, a
different, unique kind of, like,hate for women in large bodies,
especially in sports likesurfing, where, like, let's say
you are in those warmer waterregions, you're going to be in
some sort of bathing suit ratherthan a wetsuit. But once you get
(13:07):
over the social barriers, you'refaced with gear based barriers,
and there's definitely, like,there's a reason why we see more
plus size representation insurfing and warm water, and the
reason is like, it's easier toget over the social barrier than
the gear barrier, if you can dothe self healing that you need
to do to get over like, whatpeople think of you when you go
(13:29):
out there and you're bathingsuit in the water, way easier
access in warm waters in coldwater, based on temperature
readings, which I'm a little bitskeptical of, the last time I
went surfing. The water was 48degrees. You don't survive in
those conditions without theright gear. So like, even if you
can overcome the social likesocialized barrier, the bullying
(13:50):
and the exclusion and thesurfing is a very exclusive
community, if you can get overthat exclusionary barrier,
you're still faced with a gearbarrier in cold water regions. I
think it
Laura Day (14:08):
is so it's such a detriment to people, because
it's like, I think what you'resaying with like the healing and
all of the societal things,that's a big job unto itself.
That's an enormous job. You hopethat people will have the chance
to get there like you have inyour 30s, right? Sucks to get
Unknown (14:26):
past that and find more barriers. It really, truly does
to, like, Finally, be at a placein your own soul where you're
like, I'm going to do the thingsI want to do, regardless of what
anyone else around me thinks.
And then you get there andyou're like, okay, but I guess I
can't, like, I spent a yearlooking for a wetsuit before I
(14:48):
decided to go custom because Iwasn't going to gain access.
Also, the only thing thatallowed me to go custom at the
time that I did because that'sexpensive. Of was a pandemic
stimulus check. Like that wasnot in my budget. Like I had
this gift of money to stimulatethe economy, and I chose to
stimulate the wetsuit economy,which really frustrates me,
(15:10):
because the wetsuit economydoesn't want me not like the
company that I went through isgreat. They did a great job. My
wetsuit fits like a glove. Ilove my wetsuit, and they only
do customs, but like the wetsuindustry, very much, seems to
have no interest. Let's justtalk about statistics. Let's do
it. In the United States, theaverage woman's size is a 1618,
(15:32):
68% of women in this countrywear a size 14, plus about half
of wetsuit brands stop at a size12. Another probably like 25% of
them go up to a 14 or 16. Thereis one company, I think, right
(15:52):
now, and like my stats, what I'mworking out of in my head is a
little bit outdated. It's been aminute since I worked on my my
wetsuit size chart comparison, Ihave a spreadsheet like, there
are no companies in NorthAmerica that go above a size 18.
And let's just remember that 18,like 1618, is average. The
(16:13):
wetsuit industry is not evenserving average women, right?
Those companies that stop at asize 14. And, let's be real,
that's a small 14, right, right?
Like a teenage 14 wetsuit fitslike a 12. Like, let's even talk
about the companies that useJunior sizing in their women's
lives. The wetsu industry, in atlarge, like, as a whole, at
(16:40):
best, is serving 42% of No, 68%they're not serving 68% I can't
do, I haven't agreed to graphic
Laura Day (16:54):
design. That's also assuming like, who's actually
like in the accessing and in thewater, and
Unknown (17:01):
how that serves as a barrier to people getting
involved in water sports. AndI've had so many conversations
about this with women through myaccount, like they'll say, I
want to surf, but I can't find awetsuit. Can you point me in any
direction? And I will say, well,here's my size chart that
compares all what's available atyour size. You're probably going
to have to go custom. And theywill say, I can't afford to go
(17:24):
custom. And I will say, Well,you might be able to find a
men's suit that fits you interms like just being able to
get it on. But what happens whena woman wears a men's wetsuit,
like, if I were to put on amen's wetsu? Right now I'm five
eight, and I'm on the tall sideof, like, I'm the very tall,
(17:45):
tallest of average, like, fivenine is where they start calling
it. You're out of the averagerange for women, the wet suit
that would fit my body, in termsof, like, getting it on my
midsection, is designed for aman who is 640, wow, yeah, which
means that, like, I've got extrafabric down to here. I've got
(18:06):
extra fabric at my ankles. I'vegot water traps in my knee pits
and my elbow pits, right? It's amiserable experience. I'm
probably chafing in places.
Large men's wetsuits are only asolution in that it allows you
to get into the water, right?
It's not a long term solution.
It's not even a good solutionfor most of us. It actually
(18:26):
poses safety risks when you'rein extremely cold water, because
you're going to have watersitting inside your wetsuit and
not developing that barrier thatit's supposed to right, like
having a too big wet suit whenyou're surfing 45 degree water
is a safety issue,
Laura Day (18:45):
absolutely. And I mean, popping up on a way doing
what you need to do, and havinga suit that's essentially in
your way is not gonna help.
There
Unknown (18:53):
are no plus size women's wetsuits in North
America. There are, I think, onebrand that produces a full suit
out of Europe that I'm aware of,and another brand that produces
pieces that are more appropriatefor like, paddle boarding or
scuba diving than they are forsurfing. And then there's like,
this one, like weirdo wetsuitthat is available that, like,
(19:15):
I've tried it. It's cheapneoprene. It's like that porous,
itchy stuff. And again, whenwe're talking about, like, first
and foremost, we should bethinking of wetsuits as safety
equipment. Because where I'msurfing, that's exactly what it
is, right? It is life savingequipment, cheap, porous
neoprene will not save your lifein 45 degree water. So the like,
(19:39):
the one option that we mighthave a I've tried it on, and it
fits super weird. It seems to bemade for an oompa loompa and
two, it's just not going to keepme safe in the context I need it
for, right? And that
Laura Day (19:53):
is all that kind of self fulfilling story that comes
back to you, yeah? Oh my god,already pull. You that You
weren't allowed to be in thesesports. And that's the fucked
up. I
Unknown (20:05):
had a man reach out to me via my DMs on Instagram after
I posted like I was postingspecifically about the wetsuit
issue this time. And yeah, thismale human came into my DMs, and
he very quickly establishedhimself as a wetsuit supplier.
(20:27):
Like, he's the intermediary thatgoes between, like, the
companies and the surf shops.
He's the guy that brokerswetsuits to surf shops. And he
was basically, like, there's nodemand. I'm like, Well, how do
we know there's no demand if wecan't try anything because
there's no supply. Like right inthe Pacific Northwest, you
cannot get into the water tosurf right without a wetsuit,
(20:47):
without putting your life atrisk. Like 60 degrees is what's
considered the line fordangerously cold water, like
kill you cold water at theheight of August temperatures on
a hot, hot year our water heremight hit 60 degrees. It's
probably more likely like 58 or59 but that 60 degree line is
like, kill you, cold water. Youcan't surf without a wet suit
(21:10):
here. And this guy is telling melike, well, there's no demand
for above a size 16. I'm like,No, I've got hundreds of women
who have responded to a survey,who are saying, I need a 16
plus. I have had, probably atthis point, at least 100
conversation like privateconversations with individual
(21:31):
women who are like, I need a wetsuit. I can't find one. It's
like this thing, like, how doyou know what the demand is when
the item is critical toparticipation in such a way that
has barred people in thosebodies from participating like
we don't know how many plus sizewomen would surf cold waters,
(21:51):
because none of us have accesswithout spending $700 on a
wetsuit. I
Laura Day (22:00):
hate to say that, like I hear everything you're
saying, because having had asurf where line that I would go
and sell in shops, this isn't astory unique to even just, oh
yeah, size wetsuit, and that'swhat's crazy about it. And you
say this, and it makes me thinkthat it's not even it's not
about supply and demand. It'sabout exclusion, white male
(22:24):
patriarchy.
Unknown (22:25):
Yeah, it's about who belongs.
Laura Day (22:29):
And it's like me selling women's surf where, like
rash guards and bikini bottomsin stores when there wasn't that
much women's surf where on themarket, and then saying that,
well, nobody buys that stuff.
Well, how are they gonna buythat stuff if you don't have it
in your store? And now you lookat so many options that are on
the market, and I was reflectingon that the other day, and I'm
(22:50):
like, these fucking assholes,like, you know what I mean?
Yeah,
Unknown (22:56):
that's a story that has been told 1000 times in
different ways for plus sizewomen like there was one major
retailer a few years ago, backin 2020 who has always served up
to a size Well, not always, butfor a long time, has done a
little bit better with sizeinclusivity than a lot of other
(23:16):
major retailers. They wereselling up to a 3x which, by the
way, is not the same as an x x xl, a 2x is not the same as an X
X L. These are different sizes,like the women's size scale is
fucked. But so they were alittle bit more inclusive. They
added, I think, one, maybe twosizes. Prior to this point, you
had to buy online if you wantedplus sizes in 2020, they decided
(23:41):
they were going to have plussizes on the racks in stores
because they got that feedbackthat, like, we would like to be
able to try stuff on, because,like, historically, clothes
don't fit very well for us.
Like, the street sized personhas 1000 options for any one
garment, so they can shopdifferent brands that make
different cuts to get thingsthat fit better. Plus Size
(24:03):
people, especially plus sizewomen, have like five options
for one garment, and you mightnot be able to find a cut that
fits you very well because youdon't have as many options. So
you want to be able to go in andtry stuff on. But stores don't
usually keep they don't reservefloor space for plus sizes. So
this retailer was like, we'regoing to reserve store space for
(24:24):
plus sizes. They ran like a halfhearted, half assed marketing
campaign to the best that we cansort of suss out. They did not
really alter their targeting.
They did not do a lot ofresearch on how do we reach the
people that have never been ableto shop in our stores, also,
they did this in the middle of apandemic, so without marketing
(24:45):
that they had plus sizes on thestore floor for us to try on,
not really effectivelymarketing, I should say, and
with like, I heard about itthrough word of mouth, not
through any sort of ad campaign,and I heard about it too late,
because when people didn't come.
Into the store to try things onand buy them. They stopped doing
that and said, Well, no one camein, but it's the height of the
pandemic, right? And they didn'ttry to market to the people that
(25:10):
needed to know, right? And thenthey're like, there's no demand.
Sorry, yeah.
Laura Day (25:18):
It's like setting the whole thing up for failure so
completely. Let me prove youthat there's no demand, but I'm
not going to put any effort intoit.
Unknown (25:28):
I've had this conversation 1000 times with the
fact that, like, how could youpossibly know there's no demand,
right? You're not expanding yourmarketing research outside of
your normal body of people,like, unless you're actually
intentionally doing focusedresearch to audiences that you
haven't historically reached.
You don't know anything aboutdemand.
Laura Day (25:49):
When I get out of the water, my skin is dry. Enter my
new favorite sidekick on and offthe beach, this beautiful hair
and body dry oil from oursponsors at dip. Forget the
lotion perfume, or the hairserum, because this oil is going
to replace them all. It comes ina range of beautiful scents that
are phthalate free, and, asalways, with dips, commitment to
(26:09):
sustainability, this product isrefillable. Finally, you can get
that just served sun kissedglow. Spray this silky, smooth
oil on your skin or run itthrough your hair to rehydrate
your locks after a long day inthe salt and sun, the best part
is this oil is fast absorbingand leaves no residue on your
hands. Get out of the surf andget on with your day with
(26:30):
beautiful self care productsfrom dip already.com use the
code Confessions of a surf ladyto get 15% off at checkout. I'll
have the link in the show notesfor you. Do you see anything
that is like a glimmer of hopeto you? Are you seeing brands
becoming more size inclusive, orare you seeing them saying
(26:52):
they're becoming more sizeinclusive and not being size
inclusive?
Unknown (26:56):
I'm gonna lean into the second part and also offer that,
I think, in the last like, let'smaybe call it 23 and 2220 2220
23 we did see to start to seesome progress in expanded size
lines and more bodyrepresentation and all this
(27:19):
stuff. And there were somebrands that were doing the
shitty thing where they like useplus size marketing, but then
only sell up to an XXL, which,again, a reminder, is not the
same as a 2x I'm a size 2x X XLis three sizes too small. Two
sizes too small and three sizesbecause it goes like XL, XXL,
xx, XL, 1x 2x 3x which is dumb,but the whole thing is dumb,
(27:46):
yeah, so I think we started tosee some progress, and there was
some hope. Yeah, with the adventand sociocultural explosion of
GLP, one weight lossmedications. There's like this
idea taking hold that if you canlose weight by any means, you
(28:08):
should lose weight by any means,and this expectation that people
are going to use thosemedications, it feels like this
moment where we're trying toeradicate fat bodies. And we
have actually seen industryregression a lot of really,
really, really, great plus sizewomen's companies are shutting
(28:29):
down right now because theycannot compete in this
marketplace. Retailers are notstocking their brands on the
floor. There's the, you know,supply chain kind of stuff,
where the cost of production,like, raises the cost of the
product so much, and people infat bodies, like, let's just go
with women in fat bodies. Onaverage, we make 14% less for
(28:50):
the same job as our straightsize peers. So when you factor
in the when the gender wage gapto like, fat women are extremely
underpaid because, like, there'sthe gender pay gap, then there's
the body size pay gap. And Iwould say even on top, like,
between there, you have theracial pay gap, yeah, so like,
let's just imagine you are a fatblack woman, you're going to be
(29:13):
making, I think I did the mathonce it's been a long time,
like, on average, I think around20% less than a thin white man,
the pay gap issue creates, like,a financial issue where a lot of
plus size women, especiallycan't afford to participate in
the economy that's available forus, right? These smaller brands
(29:37):
have to charge high prices, andI really believe that they
deserve like if they'reparticipating in, like, ethical
production, sustainableproduction, like paying their
workers fairly, like the priceon that garment is gonna be
high, but for plus size women,we often can't participate in
those brands, and we're leftwith things like Old Navy and
(29:57):
sheen because. We're not equalparticipants in the economy,
because there's a big pay gapfor women, for women of color,
and for fat women, and it likeit's intersectional, it
compounds with all of the otherthings. Yeah, absolutely, we've
really seen this regression, andit's been heartbreaking to watch
some really good brands go awaybecause they can't make it in
(30:20):
this economy, and at the sametime, be feeling like the world
wants you gone. Like, in the fatliberation community, there's a
lot of conversation around like,Look, if you want to take a GLP
one to lose the weight, that'sfine. That's a decision you get
to make about your body. Like,first of all, that medication
(30:41):
should be, first and foremost,primarily reserved for people
who medically need it. But rightnow, there's like, shortage for
people that like, need it fordiabetes management, because
you've got skinny white women ontheir Facebook ads being like, I
now have a six pack, and I'vegot nothing against six packs.
Good for you, but I think thereare ethical issues with using it
(31:02):
that way, and I would neverblame anyone for going with
intentional weight loss, becausethe social barriers and the
social stigmas are so high. Likemy weight fluctuates
significantly because of myautoimmune conditions, I have
about a 40 pound weight rangethat I exist in, and I get
treated right now, I'm at thelow end of it because I have my
(31:24):
autoimmune conditions very wellcontrolled. I'm still just fat,
but I get treated much better inthis body than in my heavy
version, which I'm sure willcycle back around again. It has
several times at this point,there's a tangible difference in
how I'm treated based on whetherI weigh 280 or 240 like I don't
(31:44):
judge anyone for pursuingintentional weight loss, because
your life will be easierthinner. But I also think that
it's probably worth it to do thedeep dive into internal healing
work to be okay with your bodyas it is. I think that's a
longer lasting result to be ableto I'm not pro body positivity.
(32:05):
I don't want anyone to hearthat. I'm very pro body
neutrality. Like, this is mybody. This is what I live in
right now, and it is goodbecause it is my home. Like my
body is good at all times,regardless of what it looks
like, because it holds me and ithas taken me through so much.
Basically, just like I'm notgoing to judge anyone for
intentional weight loss, becauseit actually makes it easier to
(32:28):
survive in this world. But wealso need to have space for
people who are not going topursue that for whatever reason.
There have been fat people fromthe dawn of time, and there will
be fat people to the end oftime, and right now, we feel
like we're in a moment inhistory where we're trying to be
eradicated, and not like, I'mnot going to do the GOP ones
(32:49):
because I don't need themmedically, and I have made peace
with my body, right?
Laura Day (32:54):
I think it's really interesting that you brought
that up, because I love thatyou're very aware of what's
going on, really good with,like, the statistics, even, as
in the beginning, you saidnumbers weren't your thing, but
sounds like numbers are yourthings. So math,
Unknown (33:07):
I can't do the math. I am autistic,
so I have a facts down, Factsin, like, I store them all over
in my body, and I just have tofind the right spot to bring it
out and be like, freakingWikipedia article.
Laura Day (33:22):
Well, it's serving you well here. So interestingly,
like in the last couple ofyears, I've noticed that kind of
wave two of body inclusivity insurf wear and clothing and in
all of that, right? And allthese campaigns. And in the last
year or two, I'm like, Whathappened to diverse bodies?
Yeah, and even brands that like,I mean, I'll, probably won't
(33:43):
name them, but I mean, evenbrands that are like women
surfing, brands that say thatthey're inclusive and at the
forefront of this thing, youknow, went from showing all
these diverse curvy bodies tonow everybody's really thin. And
I'd never put two and twotogether that it really has to
do with this drug that'savailable. This is a
Unknown (34:02):
big conversation, like fat liberation communities and
sort of fat positivecommunities. It's just that like
we felt like there was hope,yeah, there was progress. And
the bigger these drugs became,the more it felt like we were
aggressing into, like theeconomy where we don't exist
(34:22):
again.
Laura Day (34:22):
Can you explain for people, body neutrality? I think
you did explain it really well.
Versus body positivity. Let's gointo what body positivity means
and why you're not. I
Unknown (34:34):
sure I in many ways, I'm gonna butcher this. There
are, like, some harderdefinitions and some softer
definitions, and I usually gowith softer ones. So body
positivity is basically like,you look at yourself in the
mirror and you're like, this islike, my body is great, ideal,
perfect. I love it. And it'sbasically the label, like you're
always being positive about yourbody to me and in my optic.
(34:59):
Little truth telling, Justiceoriented brain that has always
felt like lying to myself,because I rarely feel
particularly positive about mywhole body. I will say I feel
great about my skin and my hairall the time, but when I like,
look at my like, if I standnaked in front of the mirror,
(35:20):
I'm not going to be like, she'shot. That's great, beautiful.
Love it. But the place that I'vecome to body neutrality
basically says, on any givenday, I don't have to feel good
about my body, but I also don'thave to feel bad, like, I don't
have to buy into the lie that,because my body is fat, my body
(35:40):
is bad. It says, like, sometimesI have very complicated emotions
about my body, and I don'talways look at it in the best
light. So the idea, I think oneof the ideas that is kind of
caught up in here in my mind, isthe idea of moral neutrality. So
we often like to ascribe goodand bad to things like, we like
(36:02):
this binary idea where, like,you have a good body or you have
a bad body, and neutrality saysyou just have a body. Same thing
with like. We do this with foodall the time. We moralize food
like, this is good food andthat's bad food. Food is morally
neutral. We do this withemotions. These are the good
(36:22):
emotions, like happy and joyfuland whatever, and the bad
emotions, angry and sad. Butemotions are morally neutral.
Yeah, like, we don't have toascribe the moral factor to
things that are neutral. Andthat's how I feel about my body.
Is that the world is telling memy body is bad in so many
different ways at all times.
This body positivity movement istelling me that I'm supposed to
(36:45):
feel good about my body at alltimes, after living in a world
that has told me it's bad for 38years and like body neutrality
comes in and says you don't haveto buy into either. It says you
can just have a body. And man,years ago, a friend of mine told
me this story where she was alsoin a larger body, and some woman
(37:09):
came up to her and told her,like the classic line that every
fat girl has gotten for herwhole life, you'd be really
pretty if you lost some weight.
Like I think every fat woman hasheard that 1000 times in their
lives. I know I have heard it. Ihave heard it from strangers and
(37:30):
friends and family, like thestory she told me about that
moment was that she was justbold enough that day, and brave
enough that day to pull thatwoman aside and say, Hey, can we
talk about what you just said?
And she told some of her story,which included just an immense
amount of tragedy and abuse as achild. And she told this woman
(37:50):
who said that thing to her likemy body has endured so much and
has kept me safe. My body hasbeen through so much and is
still me, and I think about thatall the time, like when I'm
(38:10):
thinking about body neutrality,like I don't have to adopt a
moral position on my body,because it has kept me well, it
has taken me through so muchlike it is the vessel that I
operate in this world in andother people don't like my
vessel, and I don't feel like Ihave to feel great about it at
(38:31):
all times, but I know it'sworthy because it holds me. It
is worthy of dignity andrespect. It is worthy of
acceptance and belonging,because it contains me.
Laura Day (38:48):
I think it's something that I've been working
on recently, for myself justlast couple years, just being
kind of crazy and realizing thatsociety regard. I also, you
know, think for women,unfortunately, regardless of
what you look like, society isgoing to tell you it's not good
(39:09):
enough. And that's like, crazy,crazy thing. And exactly what
you said is, We attribute thisgood and bad to who we are
physically. But everything yousaid just like, it's like
washing over me, like a wave oflike, intense emotion, because
it really is a place that I'mworking to get to as well, this
(39:29):
place of body neutrality,
Unknown (39:31):
not a really long journey, but a really beautiful
one. And I feel like I'm nevergoing to be done with it. Like
there are always going to betimes where I have to recenter
myself around that idea of bodyneutrality. There are always
moments when I, like, catch aglimpse of myself and I'm like,
Oh, really. And then I have to,like, reevaluate those thoughts
and, like, capture them and say,You don't belong here. You're
(39:53):
not welcome here. Get out. Yeah,
Laura Day (39:56):
it really is that practice of coming back to it.
And I mean, it's. So many yearsof conditioning as well, right?
So you're fighting a wholelifetime of conditioning. And I
mean, the thing that I wouldthink about all the time, like
as a teenager or as a kid,right? I grew up with big brown
legs, and that I grew up in avery white neighborhood, right?
So completely opposite from whatmost of the girls could wear,
(40:19):
would wear, whatever, right? AndI just remember wanting to
always not wanting to besomebody else or look like
someone else, but wanting tofeel allowed to like who I
already was and I was I grew up,I realized, like, that's what I
was fighting, not that I didn'tlike myself, it's that it felt
(40:40):
like everybody was telling youyou shouldn't like yourself,
yeah?
Unknown (40:44):
And that, like, that's a big piece of it is just
realizing that, like, they'rewrong, very, very wrong, deeply,
deeply wrong.
Laura Day (40:55):
Yeah. I mean, this all ties back to how accepted
you feel in the lineup. It allties back to how well you can
perform as a surfer, how muchyou can show people that there
is demand. I can do this if yougave me the right equipment, I
could excel as a surfer. I couldcreate that representation and
(41:18):
support the demand that wants tobe there. Yeah,
Unknown (41:21):
and I man, the lineup is a whole different story.
Like, as a woman, you're alreadyjudged in a lineup. But then as
a fat woman, like as a fatperson, when you fail at
physical activities, thenarrative that people have in
their heads when they see youfail at these activities is that
you failed because you're fat,not because you're new, or
(41:46):
you're having a bad day, oryou're, I don't know, the new
thing is pretty, pretty deep init, but like, there was a moment
probably about a year ago whereI was out on a local trail
skateboarding, and skateboardingis relatively new to me. Kind of
picked it up at the same time assurfing, started longboarding,
and then eventually starteddabbling in Surf Skate. But I
was out on my longboard, and Iwas like, doing a kick push, and
(42:10):
I accidentally hit one of mywheels with my pushing foot, and
I just ate shit, like head overheels, tumbled. And I was like,
I got up pretty quickly, but itwas a bad fall, and of course,
it was the one time I decidednot to wear all my safety gears.
I'm also a big time safety nerd,and there were four or five
(42:30):
people out on the trail that,like, watched it happen, and not
a single person, like, stoppedand asked me if I was okay. But
then I also just, like, Iremember standing there thinking
about and this is, this isanother thing I could dive into
for so long, like as a fatperson, and I'm sure you've
probably experienced this insome ways, maybe not with
(42:50):
fatness, but being a brownperson in a white world, like
your friends make these commentsabout other people, like they
make a fat joke about someoneelse that they see or they
comment on something that thatfat person over there is wearing
or doing. So, like, one of thereasons we know that people have
these thoughts is because theysay them about other people to
us. So I remember getting upfrom that where no one said,
(43:15):
like, even so much of a hey, areyou okay? And I was my ego was
bruised. I had a scrape, but itwas okay. Just thinking about a
handful of different moments inmy life where people in my life
laughed and made jokes at otherfat people failing at sports
like this is a YouTubephenomenon, like, especially in
(43:36):
my college years, when YouTubewas coming, like, a lot of those
early viral videos, we're fatpeople moving their bodies like
we know what society thinks ofus, because you never hit it.
And I just had that moment whereI was like, Oh, they probably
think that I did that becauseI'm fat and not because I'm new.
And then, like, there was amoment out in the lineup where,
(43:58):
like, I wiped out, and my boardwas out of my control for while
I was, you know, tumbling in thewave, and this other dude in the
lineup got really spicy with meabout it, and I just remember
thinking like I just watched yougive my friend grace, my female
friend Grace. Why am I the oneyou're getting salty with when
(44:23):
you gave her grace for a similarmoment, right? I got your
bullshit. And there are so manymoments where you're just like,
okay, like, I get that even ifyou accept women, you're
probably not going to accept fatwomen in the lineup and like
that kind of intersectionalityand the compoundedness of like
being woman plus something else,and how, that, you know, makes
(44:47):
can make the experience a lotworse and a lot more exclusive
and sort of like the push outsense, like you don't belong
here, and just how, like every,every time, I know, because
society has never. What theythink of people failing at
movement in fat bodies, whatsome people probably think of me
when I fail at movement. And assomeone who plays hockey and
(45:11):
surfs and paddle boards andswims and like does all of these
skateboards, I fail at movementa lot, and again, I know,
because it's never been a secretwhat society thinks of fat
people's failing at movement. Iknow there are people thinking
those thoughts about me. I thinkthis is part of the healing
work, like you have to be ableto move past that in order to
(45:32):
continue in your sport.
Laura Day (45:34):
What do you think it is that people need to heal
within themselves, to not be sojudgmental on other people as
Unknown (45:42):
a society, we need to understand that what fat people
do with their bodies is none ofyour fucking business, like what
we eat and how we do activitylike you don't know anything
about our life or our situationor our ability or whatever. You
don't know why we are the way weare. So just hang up your
(46:03):
judgment hat in that regard. ButI also think a lot of people are
really deeply worried aboutbecoming fat. That,
Laura Day (46:12):
again, is like a fulfilling thing. It's because
they think fat people are bad.
Unknown (46:16):
Yeah, they think fat people are bad. And I don't
think like science reallydemonstrates at this point that
being in the overweightcategory, and I hate the BMI, I
don't even like I don't want tobring it up, but like, the
research uses it, so I don'treally have a better set of
language. Being in theoverweight category is actually
(46:37):
insular for your health. Youhave better health outcomes if
you're just in that range aboveaverage weight, then being
average or below average. Butwhat a lot of research is really
demonstrating is that it'sweight cycling, not being fat,
that actually produces the worsthealth outcomes for people in
fat bodies, like people in fatbodies, who just are fat have
(47:01):
better health outcomes thanpeople in fat bodies who weight
cycle. Like, a lot of that,like, a lot of the stuff that we
associate with being fat isactually more closely tied to
weight cycling, like health,health risks and stuff, yes. So
there's a lot of science to showthat, like for health, being fat
(47:21):
is not actually as bad as it hasbeen marketed as, but I don't
think people who say they'retrying to avoid being fat for
health, that's probably theirprimary motivator in a lot of
the conversations that I've had,and the way I hear other People
talk about fat people both liketo me directly and in other
(47:45):
reading articles and researchand seeing how people are
talking about it on their reelsand whatever I think people are
more afraid of the way fatpeople are treated because they
know how they think of fatpeople like if I looked like
that person, people would thinkthe same thing. I think about
(48:06):
that person, about me, right?
Like the social stigma, Iactually think is the bigger
driver for people trying to notbe fat, than actually, than
actual health outcomes. Andlet's just talk about fucking
the stress of being sociallyexcluded all the time, and what
high cortisol levels do to abody like it is stressful being
this world on
Laura Day (48:29):
top of that, like we don't have a nutritious food
supply. Well, yeah, have homesthat aren't filled with toxins
and molds and things that for awoman that fluctuate your
hormonal cycle, I mean, it'slike, fucking set up to fail
again. Like it's, yeah,fighting.
Unknown (48:49):
I've had so many conversations with my doctor
about the food supply, because Ihave to be very careful with
what I eat because of all theautoimmune stuff. Yeah? Like, I
mean, when I was down inCalifornia, we went out to eat,
and it was a challenge to findsomething to eat. And that was,
like, that whole road trip, Iwas just trying to find things
to eat, right, because I can'tgo out to eat like a normal
(49:11):
human being. Meanwhile, people,like, probably look at my body
and I'm like, and they're like,ah, cheeseburgers, you're eating
way healthier than they are.
Love cheeseburgers, and I wouldeat more cheeseburgers if they
didn't make me sick. And I trynot to use my own diet as a
defense thing, because Iactually think it's none of
anyone's business like I knowthat I have good fatty behaviors
because I have to to be not inpain all the time, but I
(49:35):
actually don't think it'shelpful to like the fat
liberation movement as a wholeto use my diet to defend my
body, because there's someoneelse that isn't doing that, and
they still deserve dignity andrespect, like regardless of what
you're putting in your mouth,regardless of what you're doing
with your body in terms ofactivity, you still deserve to
be treated like a human withdignity and respect you. And
(49:58):
like you belong here, like youare part of this world.
Laura Day (50:03):
Well, thank you so much, Kim. I mean, I feel like
your vulnerability. I mean itshows on your account, and
you're so good with tellingstories that make your content
relatable. I regardless of whatbody anyone lives in, I think
everything you said was veryinspirational and made me it's
(50:24):
making me reflect on myself andmy own body and in a really
positive way. I mean, neutral,it's making me
Unknown (50:30):
reflect again too.
Like, like, I haven't thoughtabout some of this stuff in a
little
Laura Day (50:34):
while. No, it's really great. I mean, like in my
personal life, like, the timingof this conversation, it feels
really profound for me. So likeit, regardless of the podcast,
like I thank you for that. Ithink it was really that let's
tell people where they can findyou, even though I did mention
it earlier, but I want you totell them,
Unknown (50:52):
yeah, best way to find me is to follow me on Instagram
at move fat girl. Honestly,that's really the only way.
Laura Day (50:59):
I'll put the links in the show notes so you guys can
find Kim. Well, you'll have tolet me know if you ever make it
down here to California, andhopefully one day you'll get to
surf without a wetsuit, becauseregardless of it being difficult
to find one, it's way more fun.
I
Unknown (51:14):
feel like, like the first time I surf without a
wetsuit, I'm gonna try and popup and just eat myself to the
moon because you over youoverdid it. I
surfed in a bear suit last week.
First saw that. Then when I tookit off, I'm like, Oh, this must
be the difference between, like,surfing with a wetsuit versus
surfing without a wetsuit,because I just felt so light and
free. But I was still in mywetsuit, right? I was just in my
(51:36):
wetsuit without a bear suit on.
Laura Day (51:41):
That's so awesome.
Well, thank you, Kim, thank
Unknown (51:44):
you for having me. This has been great.
Laura Day (51:47):
All right, lady, we've come to the end of our
episode, but not the end of theconversation after listening. I
hope that you feel represented,empowered and even better
connected to your surf sistersin our beautiful surf lady
community, let's stay connectedbefore our next episode. Follow
me on Instagram at Confessionsof a surf lady and follow our
(52:11):
amazing women's surf community,where we get together to learn
more surf better and live happy.
That is at surf society, spelleds, O, C, i, e, t, e, last but
not least, join us in ourexclusive surf society platform.
Join us for your first week freeby clicking the link at the top
of the show notes, thank you somuch for bringing your unique
(52:33):
and beautiful self to our lineupat Confessions of a surf lady,
I'll see you on our nextepisode, your host, Laura Day,
you.
Hey lady, welcome to Confessions of a surf lady, a
podcast by the surf society. Forso long, women have been
misrepresented by the surfindustry, only highlighting a
narrow and exclusive version ofa who a surf lady can be. But
you and I both know that thereis so much more to women surfing
than that this, this podcastright here, is a place to tell
(00:25):
our story how we want to tellit, at Confessions of a surf
lady. You'll meet everyday surfladies doing amazing things in
their local communities, as wellas pros, World Champs, big wave
riders and badass, livinglegends from women's surf
history, all sharing their stokeon this blossoming Global
(00:46):
Women's surf culture. What'seven more special, though, is
that you, yes, you will get achance to participate in the
conversation by leaving me yourconfessions. I'm your host,
Laura Day. Think of me as yournew favorite surf sister,
connecting you to your beautifulGlobal Women's surf community,
helping you boost yourconfidence before you head out
(01:07):
for your next surf, and evendropping a few surf tips from
the surf society along the way.
If you want to stay connectedwith me, find me on Instagram
that's at Confessions of a surflady. Kind of use that like my
personal account, and then goahead and follow at surf
society. That's s, u, r, F, S,O, C, i, e, t, e, there you'll
find a handful of free resourcesto help you through your surfing
(01:30):
journey. All right, lady, thanksagain for joining me here at
Confessions of a surf lady,where we're cultivating a global
women's surf culture throughthoughtful conversation. Let's
get to our episode. Yeah,
Unknown (01:45):
welcome to the show.
Kim, hello. I'm so excited. I
Laura Day (01:50):
know I'm so stoked to have you here. I've been
following you on Instagram for awhile, and when your account
first came up, move that girl. Ijust thought it was so
refreshing, like the way youtell stories, the way that you
share your experiences, isreally relatable. I want to just
start with you sharing whatmotivated you to start this
account, because it actuallyhasn't been that long, has it?
(02:13):
Couple years?
Unknown (02:14):
Yeah, I think there's some day in September that saved
on my calendar that is theanniversary. It just turned
three last month. Two, three. Ithink
Laura Day (02:27):
page. I'm like, Wait, am I what? Which year
Unknown (02:29):
has been three, because I started the account before I
started surfing. Okay, so I knowlike my starting to surf journey
was part of that, because I alsotook swimming lessons before I
learned to surf, and that waspart of it, nice, not a long
standing account. But, you know,I'm starting to feel like it's
maybe not stable while I've beenmoving, but stable,
Laura Day (02:49):
yeah. What was your original inspiration? Tell
everyone more about youraccount.
Unknown (02:54):
Yeah, it was really, I was like an athlete as a kid,
and I was in a larger body thantwo, and experienced some gear
back barriers. Like, I grew upplaying softball, but then,
like, because of really, like,bullying kind of stuff, I got
out of sports, out of any sortof, like, physical activity
space for about a decade, andthen started diving back into
(03:18):
it, but found a bunch ofbarriers. Like, year based
barriers. I started playinghockey in 2019 and not only is
there just like this really,really, really limited amount of
women's hockey gear, but there,at the time, was zero plus size
women's hockey gear. At thispoint, as of last year, I have
(03:39):
like, a pair of hockey chestpads designed for a woman that
fits me, and they still don'tmake pants in my size, so I'm
wearing men's pants, and thatmatters when you're playing a
full contact sport and you havea differently shaped pelvis that
needs to be protected. So, like,it was kind of born out of,
like, this journey of gettingback into sports as an adult now
(03:59):
that I'm, like, mentally overthe social stigma of being a
person in a larger body. Insports, I'm still facing the
barriers of gear, like, whetherthat's active wear or the safety
gear, like, well, probably, I'msure we'll wind up talking about
wetsuits tonight. So every sportthat I've gotten into there has
just been barrier after barrierafter barrier. The first, like,
(04:21):
real big barrier I hit wasgetting into kayaking and
finding a life jacket that fitme. And I had, like, a terrible
experience in a recreationalequipment store that shall go
unnamed here in Seattle, like Iwent shopping for a life jacket,
and I was like, This is what Ineed. And the salesman, like,
literally told me you're notgoing to find anything that fits
(04:43):
you. And I was like, really. SoI left the store and went and
found one that fit me elsewhere.
But it was actually it wasreally hard to find that life
jacket. Every step I've taken toget into a new sport, there has
been some sort of gear basedbarrier, and that was really the
impetus for starting the. Count,and since then, it's grown to
kind of talking about all sortsof barriers and experience that
people in larger bodiesexperience, but especially in
(05:06):
the sporting world. I try tofocus on sports based stuff, but
every now and then, I'll have,like, just a regular life rant,
you know?
Laura Day (05:18):
Yeah, I love your rants. Keep them coming.
Unknown (05:21):
I've got one that's like brewing inside of me right
now.
Laura Day (05:23):
Do we even want to jump right into it? Or do you
want to say that
Unknown (05:27):
I'll save it? I'll save it. It has nothing to do with
surfing. So it's a
Laura Day (05:32):
rant nonetheless. I'm sure it needs to be heard. So
being a child that like stoppeddoing sports because you felt
like you were bullied and youdidn't feel like there's a space
for you. What kind of things didyou have to overcome to then
come into adulthood and be like,I want to do the sports that I'm
passionate about?
Unknown (05:47):
Yeah, that's a great question. When I turned 30, you
know, you know you're goingthrough, like, the decade shift,
and you're self evaluating everytime you change a decade. You
know, I'm coming up on the nextdecade, soon, so, like almost
kind of hitting that a littlebit again. But when I turned 30,
I started really looking at selfevaluating, when was the last
(06:10):
time I felt unencumbered byother people's opinions of me?
And after a lot of, you know,soul searching and internal
thought, I realized that it wasabout when I was, like, 10 years
old. Turns out there's actuallysome like, research and science
to back this up that, like,that's when peer pressure starts
to take, like, a really, really,a much bigger player in a lot of
kids lives is around 10 yearsold, like the third grade. So
(06:33):
when I kind of figured that out,I started kind of asking myself,
like, what would 10 year old Kimdo? And the first decision I
made was 10 year old Kim wanteda pair of purple high tops. So
30 whatever year old Kim, atthat point, bought a pair of
purple high tops, and it becamelike this thing where I was
letting 10 year old Kim make alot of my adult life decisions,
(06:54):
like it started in clothing andkind of expanded 10 year old Kim
wanted to play hockey. So 33year old Kim started playing
hockey. And once I startedplaying hockey, when I turned
30, there was like, this switchthat flipped in my brain that
just said, I do not give a fuckwhat other people think of me.
And I was kind of partnered withthe like, when was the last that
(07:17):
kind of actually led to thethoughts about when was the last
time I felt unencumbered byother people's opinions of me,
like 10 year old, Kim did notcare what other people thought
of her. She just wanted to,like, wear high tops and
backwards hats, and she wantedto play hockey and she wanted to
surf, and she wanted to do allthis stuff that adult Kim had
(07:39):
stayed away from, like, I wouldsay, in part, like finances were
a piece of it. Like, I gottastop taking up very expensive
sports. I really want to learnto die, though, but it was
really this thing where, like, Istarted letting 10 year old Kim,
who did not care what otherpeople thought of her, make a
(08:01):
lot of decisions in my life.
Laura Day (08:03):
Were you letting us 10 year old Kim didn't give a
fuck. Is that why you wereasking about potty language?
Yeah.
Unknown (08:09):
Well, it was like, it like the thought when I turned
30 in, that switch flipped andit was like, suddenly I don't
give a fuck. What other peoplethink of me like? That thought
triggered the sort of selfreflection of when was the last
time I felt unencumbered byother people's opinions of me?
And I keep repeating that samephrase, because that was
actually the phrase that wasgoing through my head, like that
(08:30):
was what I was evaluating. Solike that thought, like, I don't
give a fuck anymore, led tofiguring out which version of me
gave the least fucks. That was10 year old Kim. And it turns
out 10 year old Kim was a dopelittle child with big dreams,
and now she has taken over mylife in so many ways, and she's
(08:52):
so much cooler than 30 year oldKim ever could have mustered up
without her. That's
Laura Day (08:58):
so great for me to hear from you, particularly in
this point in time, because I'vebeen thinking about that a lot
in my life. I'm like, man. Imean, I was a little bit older,
like 1617, I'm like that. Laurawas ruthless as fuck, like that.
Laura was not thinking aboutwhat she had to lose. She was
thinking about missing heropportunities or things, you
(09:21):
know. And then, as an adult likeyou overthink, you tend to
overthink the consequences ofeverything. Oh, yeah. And I've
been going back to that. I'mlike, What would she do? She
would not care, like she wouldhave already been doing the
thing, you know what I mean. Sosharing that, yeah, well, I'm so
glad that you started thisaccount, I think you've shared
(09:41):
so many amazing, inspirationalstories. Let's get to size
inclusivity and sporting gear.
Ooh, yeah, this is the hottopic, yes. And I mean, like,
I'm not a larger body person. Imean, I would say I'm short and
curvy, so that is not exactlythe mold of fitting clothes, but
I don't have as. Much to findingclothing, and even at my size, I
do see the lack of sizeinclusivity. So I want to hear
(10:05):
what you have to say.
Unknown (10:08):
I think there's a lot of social stigma around larger
bodies, obviously. Gosh, I wasthinking about this earlier
today, because today actually,like, I have a bunch of
autoimmune conditions, and Ihave to keep, like, really tight
control over what goes into mybody in order to not have a
bunch of, like, inflammation andflare ups and stuff like that.
Like, there was a Facebookmemory this morning that
(10:29):
reminded me, like, at some pointtoday was like 200 days since
the last time I ate refinedsugars or grains or legumes. At
this point I'm like 2400something days. I'm like, coming
up on seven years of thatlifestyle. So I was reflecting
on this, because every time Iever posted one of those
milestones, people would respondabout the size and shape of my
(10:51):
body, and I got super saltyabout it this morning and posted
a diatribe to Facebook about howlike like some of the biggest
barriers we face in large bodieswhen, especially when it comes
to the sporting world, is thesocial stigma, because a lot of
people look at people in largebodies, fat bodies, plus size
bodies, and think they're dumband lazy and inept and incapable
(11:17):
of activity. And that could notbe farther from the truth. So
there's like these socialbarriers that a lot of people in
sporting communities like, it'ssociety wide. It's like a
sociocultural belief that fatpeople are bad in many different
ways, but it is uniquelynefarious in the sporting
community, because you have alot of people who are very
(11:38):
dedicated to like this physicalactivity that they think
requires thinness, but itactually requires like strength
and mobility, and maybe not eventhat much strength, like no one
ever has said that you have tobe good at things like I hold
this dear to my heart. Do Ialways want to improve? Yes,
surfing brings me joy, and I amterrible at it. As long as it
(12:02):
continues to bring me joy, Iwill continue to be terrible at
it. Do I want to improve? Yes,but you can pry the joy of being
in the ocean from my cold, andit's going to be cold because
I'm in the Pacific Northwest.
Dead fingers,
Laura Day (12:17):
yeah, when you came to visit, that was like the
first time you surfed without awetsuit, right? What did you
wear
Unknown (12:22):
in San Diego? I wore the wetsuit because it was like,
I don't know, April, okay, butthat was the warmest water I've
ever served in the water. Wasthat day. I've never been in
water. I've never served withouta wetsuit. I've never surfed
without booties, quite frankly,because every time I go to
California, I'm afraid ofstingrays. Fair enough. Four,
three is a summer suit here.
Dedication, yeah. Like, ifyou're able to get over the
(12:46):
social stigma of entering into asports space in a large body,
especially as a woman in a largebody, because there's like, a
different, unique kind of, like,hate for women in large bodies,
especially in sports likesurfing, where, like, let's say
you are in those warmer waterregions, you're going to be in
some sort of bathing suit ratherthan a wetsuit. But once you get
(13:07):
over the social barriers, you'refaced with gear based barriers,
and there's definitely, like,there's a reason why we see more
plus size representation insurfing and warm water, and the
reason is like, it's easier toget over the social barrier than
the gear barrier, if you can dothe self healing that you need
to do to get over like, whatpeople think of you when you go
(13:29):
out there and you're bathingsuit in the water, way easier
access in warm waters in coldwater, based on temperature
readings, which I'm a little bitskeptical of, the last time I
went surfing. The water was 48degrees. You don't survive in
those conditions without theright gear. So like, even if you
can overcome the social likesocialized barrier, the bullying
(13:50):
and the exclusion and thesurfing is a very exclusive
community, if you can get overthat exclusionary barrier,
you're still faced with a gearbarrier in cold water regions. I
think it
Laura Day (14:08):
is so it's such a detriment to people, because
it's like, I think what you'resaying with like the healing and
all of the societal things,that's a big job unto itself.
That's an enormous job. You hopethat people will have the chance
to get there like you have inyour 30s, right? Sucks to get
Unknown (14:26):
past that and find more barriers. It really, truly does
to, like, Finally, be at a placein your own soul where you're
like, I'm going to do the thingsI want to do, regardless of what
anyone else around me thinks.
And then you get there andyou're like, okay, but I guess I
can't, like, I spent a yearlooking for a wetsuit before I
(14:48):
decided to go custom because Iwasn't going to gain access.
Also, the only thing thatallowed me to go custom at the
time that I did because that'sexpensive. Of was a pandemic
stimulus check. Like that wasnot in my budget. Like I had
this gift of money to stimulatethe economy, and I chose to
stimulate the wetsuit economy,which really frustrates me,
(15:10):
because the wetsuit economydoesn't want me not like the
company that I went through isgreat. They did a great job. My
wetsuit fits like a glove. Ilove my wetsuit, and they only
do customs, but like the wetsuindustry, very much, seems to
have no interest. Let's justtalk about statistics. Let's do
it. In the United States, theaverage woman's size is a 1618,
(15:32):
68% of women in this countrywear a size 14, plus about half
of wetsuit brands stop at a size12. Another probably like 25% of
them go up to a 14 or 16. Thereis one company, I think, right
(15:52):
now, and like my stats, what I'mworking out of in my head is a
little bit outdated. It's been aminute since I worked on my my
wetsuit size chart comparison, Ihave a spreadsheet like, there
are no companies in NorthAmerica that go above a size 18.
And let's just remember that 18,like 1618, is average. The
(16:13):
wetsuit industry is not evenserving average women, right?
Those companies that stop at asize 14. And, let's be real,
that's a small 14, right, right?
Like a teenage 14 wetsuit fitslike a 12. Like, let's even talk
about the companies that useJunior sizing in their women's
lives. The wetsu industry, in atlarge, like, as a whole, at
(16:40):
best, is serving 42% of No, 68%they're not serving 68% I can't
do, I haven't agreed to graphic
Laura Day (16:54):
design. That's also assuming like, who's actually
like in the accessing and in thewater, and
Unknown (17:01):
how that serves as a barrier to people getting
involved in water sports. AndI've had so many conversations
about this with women through myaccount, like they'll say, I
want to surf, but I can't find awetsuit. Can you point me in any
direction? And I will say, well,here's my size chart that
compares all what's available atyour size. You're probably going
to have to go custom. And theywill say, I can't afford to go
(17:24):
custom. And I will say, Well,you might be able to find a
men's suit that fits you interms like just being able to
get it on. But what happens whena woman wears a men's wetsuit,
like, if I were to put on amen's wetsu? Right now I'm five
eight, and I'm on the tall sideof, like, I'm the very tall,
(17:45):
tallest of average, like, fivenine is where they start calling
it. You're out of the averagerange for women, the wet suit
that would fit my body, in termsof, like, getting it on my
midsection, is designed for aman who is 640, wow, yeah, which
means that, like, I've got extrafabric down to here. I've got
(18:06):
extra fabric at my ankles. I'vegot water traps in my knee pits
and my elbow pits, right? It's amiserable experience. I'm
probably chafing in places.
Large men's wetsuits are only asolution in that it allows you
to get into the water, right?
It's not a long term solution.
It's not even a good solutionfor most of us. It actually
(18:26):
poses safety risks when you'rein extremely cold water, because
you're going to have watersitting inside your wetsuit and
not developing that barrier thatit's supposed to right, like
having a too big wet suit whenyou're surfing 45 degree water
is a safety issue,
Laura Day (18:45):
absolutely. And I mean, popping up on a way doing
what you need to do, and havinga suit that's essentially in
your way is not gonna help.
There
Unknown (18:53):
are no plus size women's wetsuits in North
America. There are, I think, onebrand that produces a full suit
out of Europe that I'm aware of,and another brand that produces
pieces that are more appropriatefor like, paddle boarding or
scuba diving than they are forsurfing. And then there's like,
this one, like weirdo wetsuitthat is available that, like,
(19:15):
I've tried it. It's cheapneoprene. It's like that porous,
itchy stuff. And again, whenwe're talking about, like, first
and foremost, we should bethinking of wetsuits as safety
equipment. Because where I'msurfing, that's exactly what it
is, right? It is life savingequipment, cheap, porous
neoprene will not save your lifein 45 degree water. So the like,
(19:39):
the one option that we mighthave a I've tried it on, and it
fits super weird. It seems to bemade for an oompa loompa and
two, it's just not going to keepme safe in the context I need it
for, right? And that
Laura Day (19:53):
is all that kind of self fulfilling story that comes
back to you, yeah? Oh my god,already pull. You that You
weren't allowed to be in thesesports. And that's the fucked
up. I
Unknown (20:05):
had a man reach out to me via my DMs on Instagram after
I posted like I was postingspecifically about the wetsuit
issue this time. And yeah, thismale human came into my DMs, and
he very quickly establishedhimself as a wetsuit supplier.
(20:27):
Like, he's the intermediary thatgoes between, like, the
companies and the surf shops.
He's the guy that brokerswetsuits to surf shops. And he
was basically, like, there's nodemand. I'm like, Well, how do
we know there's no demand if wecan't try anything because
there's no supply. Like right inthe Pacific Northwest, you
cannot get into the water tosurf right without a wetsuit,
(20:47):
without putting your life atrisk. Like 60 degrees is what's
considered the line fordangerously cold water, like
kill you cold water at theheight of August temperatures on
a hot, hot year our water heremight hit 60 degrees. It's
probably more likely like 58 or59 but that 60 degree line is
like, kill you, cold water. Youcan't surf without a wet suit
(21:10):
here. And this guy is telling melike, well, there's no demand
for above a size 16. I'm like,No, I've got hundreds of women
who have responded to a survey,who are saying, I need a 16
plus. I have had, probably atthis point, at least 100
conversation like privateconversations with individual
(21:31):
women who are like, I need a wetsuit. I can't find one. It's
like this thing, like, how doyou know what the demand is when
the item is critical toparticipation in such a way that
has barred people in thosebodies from participating like
we don't know how many plus sizewomen would surf cold waters,
(21:51):
because none of us have accesswithout spending $700 on a
wetsuit. I
Laura Day (22:00):
hate to say that, like I hear everything you're
saying, because having had asurf where line that I would go
and sell in shops, this isn't astory unique to even just, oh
yeah, size wetsuit, and that'swhat's crazy about it. And you
say this, and it makes me thinkthat it's not even it's not
about supply and demand. It'sabout exclusion, white male
(22:24):
patriarchy.
Unknown (22:25):
Yeah, it's about who belongs.
Laura Day (22:29):
And it's like me selling women's surf where, like
rash guards and bikini bottomsin stores when there wasn't that
much women's surf where on themarket, and then saying that,
well, nobody buys that stuff.
Well, how are they gonna buythat stuff if you don't have it
in your store? And now you lookat so many options that are on
the market, and I was reflectingon that the other day, and I'm
(22:50):
like, these fucking assholes,like, you know what I mean?
Yeah,
Unknown (22:56):
that's a story that has been told 1000 times in
different ways for plus sizewomen like there was one major
retailer a few years ago, backin 2020 who has always served up
to a size Well, not always, butfor a long time, has done a
little bit better with sizeinclusivity than a lot of other
(23:16):
major retailers. They wereselling up to a 3x which, by the
way, is not the same as an x x xl, a 2x is not the same as an X
X L. These are different sizes,like the women's size scale is
fucked. But so they were alittle bit more inclusive. They
added, I think, one, maybe twosizes. Prior to this point, you
had to buy online if you wantedplus sizes in 2020, they decided
(23:41):
they were going to have plussizes on the racks in stores
because they got that feedbackthat, like, we would like to be
able to try stuff on, because,like, historically, clothes
don't fit very well for us.
Like, the street sized personhas 1000 options for any one
garment, so they can shopdifferent brands that make
different cuts to get thingsthat fit better. Plus Size
(24:03):
people, especially plus sizewomen, have like five options
for one garment, and you mightnot be able to find a cut that
fits you very well because youdon't have as many options. So
you want to be able to go in andtry stuff on. But stores don't
usually keep they don't reservefloor space for plus sizes. So
this retailer was like, we'regoing to reserve store space for
(24:24):
plus sizes. They ran like a halfhearted, half assed marketing
campaign to the best that we cansort of suss out. They did not
really alter their targeting.
They did not do a lot ofresearch on how do we reach the
people that have never been ableto shop in our stores, also,
they did this in the middle of apandemic, so without marketing
(24:45):
that they had plus sizes on thestore floor for us to try on,
not really effectivelymarketing, I should say, and
with like, I heard about itthrough word of mouth, not
through any sort of ad campaign,and I heard about it too late,
because when people didn't come.
Into the store to try things onand buy them. They stopped doing
that and said, Well, no one camein, but it's the height of the
pandemic, right? And they didn'ttry to market to the people that
(25:10):
needed to know, right? And thenthey're like, there's no demand.
Sorry, yeah.
Laura Day (25:18):
It's like setting the whole thing up for failure so
completely. Let me prove youthat there's no demand, but I'm
not going to put any effort intoit.
Unknown (25:28):
I've had this conversation 1000 times with the
fact that, like, how could youpossibly know there's no demand,
right? You're not expanding yourmarketing research outside of
your normal body of people,like, unless you're actually
intentionally doing focusedresearch to audiences that you
haven't historically reached.
You don't know anything aboutdemand.
Laura Day (25:49):
When I get out of the water, my skin is dry. Enter my
new favorite sidekick on and offthe beach, this beautiful hair
and body dry oil from oursponsors at dip. Forget the
lotion perfume, or the hairserum, because this oil is going
to replace them all. It comes ina range of beautiful scents that
are phthalate free, and, asalways, with dips, commitment to
(26:09):
sustainability, this product isrefillable. Finally, you can get
that just served sun kissedglow. Spray this silky, smooth
oil on your skin or run itthrough your hair to rehydrate
your locks after a long day inthe salt and sun, the best part
is this oil is fast absorbingand leaves no residue on your
hands. Get out of the surf andget on with your day with
(26:30):
beautiful self care productsfrom dip already.com use the
code Confessions of a surf ladyto get 15% off at checkout. I'll
have the link in the show notesfor you. Do you see anything
that is like a glimmer of hopeto you? Are you seeing brands
becoming more size inclusive, orare you seeing them saying
(26:52):
they're becoming more sizeinclusive and not being size
inclusive?
Unknown (26:56):
I'm gonna lean into the second part and also offer that,
I think, in the last like, let'smaybe call it 23 and 2220 2220
23 we did see to start to seesome progress in expanded size
lines and more bodyrepresentation and all this
(27:19):
stuff. And there were somebrands that were doing the
shitty thing where they like useplus size marketing, but then
only sell up to an XXL, which,again, a reminder, is not the
same as a 2x I'm a size 2x X XLis three sizes too small. Two
sizes too small and three sizesbecause it goes like XL, XXL,
xx, XL, 1x 2x 3x which is dumb,but the whole thing is dumb,
(27:46):
yeah, so I think we started tosee some progress, and there was
some hope. Yeah, with the adventand sociocultural explosion of
GLP, one weight lossmedications. There's like this
idea taking hold that if you canlose weight by any means, you
(28:08):
should lose weight by any means,and this expectation that people
are going to use thosemedications, it feels like this
moment where we're trying toeradicate fat bodies. And we
have actually seen industryregression a lot of really,
really, really, great plus sizewomen's companies are shutting
(28:29):
down right now because theycannot compete in this
marketplace. Retailers are notstocking their brands on the
floor. There's the, you know,supply chain kind of stuff,
where the cost of production,like, raises the cost of the
product so much, and people infat bodies, like, let's just go
with women in fat bodies. Onaverage, we make 14% less for
(28:50):
the same job as our straightsize peers. So when you factor
in the when the gender wage gapto like, fat women are extremely
underpaid because, like, there'sthe gender pay gap, then there's
the body size pay gap. And Iwould say even on top, like,
between there, you have theracial pay gap, yeah, so like,
let's just imagine you are a fatblack woman, you're going to be
(29:13):
making, I think I did the mathonce it's been a long time,
like, on average, I think around20% less than a thin white man,
the pay gap issue creates, like,a financial issue where a lot of
plus size women, especiallycan't afford to participate in
the economy that's available forus, right? These smaller brands
(29:37):
have to charge high prices, andI really believe that they
deserve like if they'reparticipating in, like, ethical
production, sustainableproduction, like paying their
workers fairly, like the priceon that garment is gonna be
high, but for plus size women,we often can't participate in
those brands, and we're leftwith things like Old Navy and
(29:57):
sheen because. We're not equalparticipants in the economy,
because there's a big pay gapfor women, for women of color,
and for fat women, and it likeit's intersectional, it
compounds with all of the otherthings. Yeah, absolutely, we've
really seen this regression, andit's been heartbreaking to watch
some really good brands go awaybecause they can't make it in
(30:20):
this economy, and at the sametime, be feeling like the world
wants you gone. Like, in the fatliberation community, there's a
lot of conversation around like,Look, if you want to take a GLP
one to lose the weight, that'sfine. That's a decision you get
to make about your body. Like,first of all, that medication
(30:41):
should be, first and foremost,primarily reserved for people
who medically need it. But rightnow, there's like, shortage for
people that like, need it fordiabetes management, because
you've got skinny white women ontheir Facebook ads being like, I
now have a six pack, and I'vegot nothing against six packs.
Good for you, but I think thereare ethical issues with using it
(31:02):
that way, and I would neverblame anyone for going with
intentional weight loss, becausethe social barriers and the
social stigmas are so high. Likemy weight fluctuates
significantly because of myautoimmune conditions, I have
about a 40 pound weight rangethat I exist in, and I get
treated right now, I'm at thelow end of it because I have my
(31:24):
autoimmune conditions very wellcontrolled. I'm still just fat,
but I get treated much better inthis body than in my heavy
version, which I'm sure willcycle back around again. It has
several times at this point,there's a tangible difference in
how I'm treated based on whetherI weigh 280 or 240 like I don't
(31:44):
judge anyone for pursuingintentional weight loss, because
your life will be easierthinner. But I also think that
it's probably worth it to do thedeep dive into internal healing
work to be okay with your bodyas it is. I think that's a
longer lasting result to be ableto I'm not pro body positivity.
(32:05):
I don't want anyone to hearthat. I'm very pro body
neutrality. Like, this is mybody. This is what I live in
right now, and it is goodbecause it is my home. Like my
body is good at all times,regardless of what it looks
like, because it holds me and ithas taken me through so much.
Basically, just like I'm notgoing to judge anyone for
intentional weight loss, becauseit actually makes it easier to
(32:28):
survive in this world. But wealso need to have space for
people who are not going topursue that for whatever reason.
There have been fat people fromthe dawn of time, and there will
be fat people to the end oftime, and right now, we feel
like we're in a moment inhistory where we're trying to be
eradicated, and not like, I'mnot going to do the GOP ones
(32:49):
because I don't need themmedically, and I have made peace
with my body, right?
Laura Day (32:54):
I think it's really interesting that you brought
that up, because I love thatyou're very aware of what's
going on, really good with,like, the statistics, even, as
in the beginning, you saidnumbers weren't your thing, but
sounds like numbers are yourthings. So math,
Unknown (33:07):
I can't do the math. I am autistic,
so I have a facts down, Factsin, like, I store them all over
in my body, and I just have tofind the right spot to bring it
out and be like, freakingWikipedia article.
Laura Day (33:22):
Well, it's serving you well here. So interestingly,
like in the last couple ofyears, I've noticed that kind of
wave two of body inclusivity insurf wear and clothing and in
all of that, right? And allthese campaigns. And in the last
year or two, I'm like, Whathappened to diverse bodies?
Yeah, and even brands that like,I mean, I'll, probably won't
(33:43):
name them, but I mean, evenbrands that are like women
surfing, brands that say thatthey're inclusive and at the
forefront of this thing, youknow, went from showing all
these diverse curvy bodies tonow everybody's really thin. And
I'd never put two and twotogether that it really has to
do with this drug that'savailable. This is a
Unknown (34:02):
big conversation, like fat liberation communities and
sort of fat positivecommunities. It's just that like
we felt like there was hope,yeah, there was progress. And
the bigger these drugs became,the more it felt like we were
aggressing into, like theeconomy where we don't exist
(34:22):
again.
Laura Day (34:22):
Can you explain for people, body neutrality? I think
you did explain it really well.
Versus body positivity. Let's gointo what body positivity means
and why you're not. I
Unknown (34:34):
sure I in many ways, I'm gonna butcher this. There
are, like, some harderdefinitions and some softer
definitions, and I usually gowith softer ones. So body
positivity is basically like,you look at yourself in the
mirror and you're like, this islike, my body is great, ideal,
perfect. I love it. And it'sbasically the label, like you're
always being positive about yourbody to me and in my optic.
(34:59):
Little truth telling, Justiceoriented brain that has always
felt like lying to myself,because I rarely feel
particularly positive about mywhole body. I will say I feel
great about my skin and my hairall the time, but when I like,
look at my like, if I standnaked in front of the mirror,
(35:20):
I'm not going to be like, she'shot. That's great, beautiful.
Love it. But the place that I'vecome to body neutrality
basically says, on any givenday, I don't have to feel good
about my body, but I also don'thave to feel bad, like, I don't
have to buy into the lie that,because my body is fat, my body
(35:40):
is bad. It says, like, sometimesI have very complicated emotions
about my body, and I don'talways look at it in the best
light. So the idea, I think oneof the ideas that is kind of
caught up in here in my mind, isthe idea of moral neutrality. So
we often like to ascribe goodand bad to things like, we like
(36:02):
this binary idea where, like,you have a good body or you have
a bad body, and neutrality saysyou just have a body. Same thing
with like. We do this with foodall the time. We moralize food
like, this is good food andthat's bad food. Food is morally
neutral. We do this withemotions. These are the good
(36:22):
emotions, like happy and joyfuland whatever, and the bad
emotions, angry and sad. Butemotions are morally neutral.
Yeah, like, we don't have toascribe the moral factor to
things that are neutral. Andthat's how I feel about my body.
Is that the world is telling memy body is bad in so many
different ways at all times.
This body positivity movement istelling me that I'm supposed to
(36:45):
feel good about my body at alltimes, after living in a world
that has told me it's bad for 38years and like body neutrality
comes in and says you don't haveto buy into either. It says you
can just have a body. And man,years ago, a friend of mine told
me this story where she was alsoin a larger body, and some woman
(37:09):
came up to her and told her,like the classic line that every
fat girl has gotten for herwhole life, you'd be really
pretty if you lost some weight.
Like I think every fat woman hasheard that 1000 times in their
lives. I know I have heard it. Ihave heard it from strangers and
(37:30):
friends and family, like thestory she told me about that
moment was that she was justbold enough that day, and brave
enough that day to pull thatwoman aside and say, Hey, can we
talk about what you just said?
And she told some of her story,which included just an immense
amount of tragedy and abuse as achild. And she told this woman
(37:50):
who said that thing to her likemy body has endured so much and
has kept me safe. My body hasbeen through so much and is
still me, and I think about thatall the time, like when I'm
(38:10):
thinking about body neutrality,like I don't have to adopt a
moral position on my body,because it has kept me well, it
has taken me through so muchlike it is the vessel that I
operate in this world in andother people don't like my
vessel, and I don't feel like Ihave to feel great about it at
(38:31):
all times, but I know it'sworthy because it holds me. It
is worthy of dignity andrespect. It is worthy of
acceptance and belonging,because it contains me.
Laura Day (38:48):
I think it's something that I've been working
on recently, for myself justlast couple years, just being
kind of crazy and realizing thatsociety regard. I also, you
know, think for women,unfortunately, regardless of
what you look like, society isgoing to tell you it's not good
(39:09):
enough. And that's like, crazy,crazy thing. And exactly what
you said is, We attribute thisgood and bad to who we are
physically. But everything yousaid just like, it's like
washing over me, like a wave oflike, intense emotion, because
it really is a place that I'mworking to get to as well, this
(39:29):
place of body neutrality,
Unknown (39:31):
not a really long journey, but a really beautiful
one. And I feel like I'm nevergoing to be done with it. Like
there are always going to betimes where I have to recenter
myself around that idea of bodyneutrality. There are always
moments when I, like, catch aglimpse of myself and I'm like,
Oh, really. And then I have to,like, reevaluate those thoughts
and, like, capture them and say,You don't belong here. You're
(39:53):
not welcome here. Get out. Yeah,
Laura Day (39:56):
it really is that practice of coming back to it.
And I mean, it's. So many yearsof conditioning as well, right?
So you're fighting a wholelifetime of conditioning. And I
mean, the thing that I wouldthink about all the time, like
as a teenager or as a kid,right? I grew up with big brown
legs, and that I grew up in avery white neighborhood, right?
So completely opposite from whatmost of the girls could wear,
(40:19):
would wear, whatever, right? AndI just remember wanting to
always not wanting to besomebody else or look like
someone else, but wanting tofeel allowed to like who I
already was and I was I grew up,I realized, like, that's what I
was fighting, not that I didn'tlike myself, it's that it felt
(40:40):
like everybody was telling youyou shouldn't like yourself,
yeah?
Unknown (40:44):
And that, like, that's a big piece of it is just
realizing that, like, they'rewrong, very, very wrong, deeply,
deeply wrong.
Laura Day (40:55):
Yeah. I mean, this all ties back to how accepted
you feel in the lineup. It allties back to how well you can
perform as a surfer, how muchyou can show people that there
is demand. I can do this if yougave me the right equipment, I
could excel as a surfer. I couldcreate that representation and
(41:18):
support the demand that wants tobe there. Yeah,
Unknown (41:21):
and I man, the lineup is a whole different story.
Like, as a woman, you're alreadyjudged in a lineup. But then as
a fat woman, like as a fatperson, when you fail at
physical activities, thenarrative that people have in
their heads when they see youfail at these activities is that
you failed because you're fat,not because you're new, or
(41:46):
you're having a bad day, oryou're, I don't know, the new
thing is pretty, pretty deep init, but like, there was a moment
probably about a year ago whereI was out on a local trail
skateboarding, and skateboardingis relatively new to me. Kind of
picked it up at the same time assurfing, started longboarding,
and then eventually starteddabbling in Surf Skate. But I
was out on my longboard, and Iwas like, doing a kick push, and
(42:10):
I accidentally hit one of mywheels with my pushing foot, and
I just ate shit, like head overheels, tumbled. And I was like,
I got up pretty quickly, but itwas a bad fall, and of course,
it was the one time I decidednot to wear all my safety gears.
I'm also a big time safety nerd,and there were four or five
(42:30):
people out on the trail that,like, watched it happen, and not
a single person, like, stoppedand asked me if I was okay. But
then I also just, like, Iremember standing there thinking
about and this is, this isanother thing I could dive into
for so long, like as a fatperson, and I'm sure you've
probably experienced this insome ways, maybe not with
(42:50):
fatness, but being a brownperson in a white world, like
your friends make these commentsabout other people, like they
make a fat joke about someoneelse that they see or they
comment on something that thatfat person over there is wearing
or doing. So, like, one of thereasons we know that people have
these thoughts is because theysay them about other people to
us. So I remember getting upfrom that where no one said,
(43:15):
like, even so much of a hey, areyou okay? And I was my ego was
bruised. I had a scrape, but itwas okay. Just thinking about a
handful of different moments inmy life where people in my life
laughed and made jokes at otherfat people failing at sports
like this is a YouTubephenomenon, like, especially in
(43:36):
my college years, when YouTubewas coming, like, a lot of those
early viral videos, we're fatpeople moving their bodies like
we know what society thinks ofus, because you never hit it.
And I just had that moment whereI was like, Oh, they probably
think that I did that becauseI'm fat and not because I'm new.
And then, like, there was amoment out in the lineup where,
(43:58):
like, I wiped out, and my boardwas out of my control for while
I was, you know, tumbling in thewave, and this other dude in the
lineup got really spicy with meabout it, and I just remember
thinking like I just watched yougive my friend grace, my female
friend Grace. Why am I the oneyou're getting salty with when
(44:23):
you gave her grace for a similarmoment, right? I got your
bullshit. And there are so manymoments where you're just like,
okay, like, I get that even ifyou accept women, you're
probably not going to accept fatwomen in the lineup and like
that kind of intersectionalityand the compoundedness of like
being woman plus something else,and how, that, you know, makes
(44:47):
can make the experience a lotworse and a lot more exclusive
and sort of like the push outsense, like you don't belong
here, and just how, like every,every time, I know, because
society has never. What theythink of people failing at
movement in fat bodies, whatsome people probably think of me
when I fail at movement. And assomeone who plays hockey and
(45:11):
surfs and paddle boards andswims and like does all of these
skateboards, I fail at movementa lot, and again, I know,
because it's never been a secretwhat society thinks of fat
people's failing at movement. Iknow there are people thinking
those thoughts about me. I thinkthis is part of the healing
work, like you have to be ableto move past that in order to
(45:32):
continue in your sport.
Laura Day (45:34):
What do you think it is that people need to heal
within themselves, to not be sojudgmental on other people as
Unknown (45:42):
a society, we need to understand that what fat people
do with their bodies is none ofyour fucking business, like what
we eat and how we do activitylike you don't know anything
about our life or our situationor our ability or whatever. You
don't know why we are the way weare. So just hang up your
(46:03):
judgment hat in that regard. ButI also think a lot of people are
really deeply worried aboutbecoming fat. That,
Laura Day (46:12):
again, is like a fulfilling thing. It's because
they think fat people are bad.
Unknown (46:16):
Yeah, they think fat people are bad. And I don't
think like science reallydemonstrates at this point that
being in the overweightcategory, and I hate the BMI, I
don't even like I don't want tobring it up, but like, the
research uses it, so I don'treally have a better set of
language. Being in theoverweight category is actually
(46:37):
insular for your health. Youhave better health outcomes if
you're just in that range aboveaverage weight, then being
average or below average. Butwhat a lot of research is really
demonstrating is that it'sweight cycling, not being fat,
that actually produces the worsthealth outcomes for people in
fat bodies, like people in fatbodies, who just are fat have
(47:01):
better health outcomes thanpeople in fat bodies who weight
cycle. Like, a lot of that,like, a lot of the stuff that we
associate with being fat isactually more closely tied to
weight cycling, like health,health risks and stuff, yes. So
there's a lot of science to showthat, like for health, being fat
(47:21):
is not actually as bad as it hasbeen marketed as, but I don't
think people who say they'retrying to avoid being fat for
health, that's probably theirprimary motivator in a lot of
the conversations that I've had,and the way I hear other People
talk about fat people both liketo me directly and in other
(47:45):
reading articles and researchand seeing how people are
talking about it on their reelsand whatever I think people are
more afraid of the way fatpeople are treated because they
know how they think of fatpeople like if I looked like
that person, people would thinkthe same thing. I think about
(48:06):
that person, about me, right?
Like the social stigma, Iactually think is the bigger
driver for people trying to notbe fat, than actually, than
actual health outcomes. Andlet's just talk about fucking
the stress of being sociallyexcluded all the time, and what
high cortisol levels do to abody like it is stressful being
this world on
Laura Day (48:29):
top of that, like we don't have a nutritious food
supply. Well, yeah, have homesthat aren't filled with toxins
and molds and things that for awoman that fluctuate your
hormonal cycle, I mean, it'slike, fucking set up to fail
again. Like it's, yeah,fighting.
Unknown (48:49):
I've had so many conversations with my doctor
about the food supply, because Ihave to be very careful with
what I eat because of all theautoimmune stuff. Yeah? Like, I
mean, when I was down inCalifornia, we went out to eat,
and it was a challenge to findsomething to eat. And that was,
like, that whole road trip, Iwas just trying to find things
to eat, right, because I can'tgo out to eat like a normal
(49:11):
human being. Meanwhile, people,like, probably look at my body
and I'm like, and they're like,ah, cheeseburgers, you're eating
way healthier than they are.
Love cheeseburgers, and I wouldeat more cheeseburgers if they
didn't make me sick. And I trynot to use my own diet as a
defense thing, because Iactually think it's none of
anyone's business like I knowthat I have good fatty behaviors
because I have to to be not inpain all the time, but I
(49:35):
actually don't think it'shelpful to like the fat
liberation movement as a wholeto use my diet to defend my
body, because there's someoneelse that isn't doing that, and
they still deserve dignity andrespect, like regardless of what
you're putting in your mouth,regardless of what you're doing
with your body in terms ofactivity, you still deserve to
be treated like a human withdignity and respect you. And
(49:58):
like you belong here, like youare part of this world.
Laura Day (50:03):
Well, thank you so much, Kim. I mean, I feel like
your vulnerability. I mean itshows on your account, and
you're so good with tellingstories that make your content
relatable. I regardless of whatbody anyone lives in, I think
everything you said was veryinspirational and made me it's
(50:24):
making me reflect on myself andmy own body and in a really
positive way. I mean, neutral,it's making me
Unknown (50:30):
reflect again too.
Like, like, I haven't thoughtabout some of this stuff in a
little
Laura Day (50:34):
while. No, it's really great. I mean, like in my
personal life, like, the timingof this conversation, it feels
really profound for me. So likeit, regardless of the podcast,
like I thank you for that. Ithink it was really that let's
tell people where they can findyou, even though I did mention
it earlier, but I want you totell them,
Unknown (50:52):
yeah, best way to find me is to follow me on Instagram
at move fat girl. Honestly,that's really the only way.
Laura Day (50:59):
I'll put the links in the show notes so you guys can
find Kim. Well, you'll have tolet me know if you ever make it
down here to California, andhopefully one day you'll get to
surf without a wetsuit, becauseregardless of it being difficult
to find one, it's way more fun.
I
Unknown (51:14):
feel like, like the first time I surf without a
wetsuit, I'm gonna try and popup and just eat myself to the
moon because you over youoverdid it. I
surfed in a bear suit last week.
First saw that. Then when I tookit off, I'm like, Oh, this must
be the difference between, like,surfing with a wetsuit versus
surfing without a wetsuit,because I just felt so light and
free. But I was still in mywetsuit, right? I was just in my
(51:36):
wetsuit without a bear suit on.
Laura Day (51:41):
That's so awesome.
Well, thank you, Kim, thank
Unknown (51:44):
you for having me. This has been great.
Laura Day (51:47):
All right, lady, we've come to the end of our
episode, but not the end of theconversation after listening. I
hope that you feel represented,empowered and even better
connected to your surf sistersin our beautiful surf lady
community, let's stay connectedbefore our next episode. Follow
me on Instagram at Confessionsof a surf lady and follow our
(52:11):
amazing women's surf community,where we get together to learn
more surf better and live happy.
That is at surf society, spelleds, O, C, i, e, t, e, last but
not least, join us in ourexclusive surf society platform.
Join us for your first week freeby clicking the link at the top
of the show notes, thank you somuch for bringing your unique
(52:33):
and beautiful self to our lineupat Confessions of a surf lady,
I'll see you on our nextepisode, your host, Laura Day,
you.
Popular Podcasts
New Heights with Jason & Travis Kelce
Football’s funniest family duo — Jason Kelce of the Philadelphia Eagles and Travis Kelce of the Kansas City Chiefs — team up to provide next-level access to life in the league as it unfolds. The two brothers and Super Bowl champions drop weekly insights about the weekly slate of games and share their INSIDE perspectives on trending NFL news and sports headlines. They also endlessly rag on each other as brothers do, chat the latest in pop culture and welcome some very popular and well-known friends to chat with them. Check out new episodes every Wednesday. Follow New Heights on the Wondery App, YouTube or wherever you get your podcasts. You can listen to new episodes early and ad-free, and get exclusive content on Wondery+. Join Wondery+ in the Wondery App, Apple Podcasts or Spotify. And join our new membership for a unique fan experience by going to the New Heights YouTube channel now!
The Breakfast Club
The World's Most Dangerous Morning Show, The Breakfast Club, With DJ Envy, Jess Hilarious, And Charlamagne Tha God!
Fudd Around And Find Out
UConn basketball star Azzi Fudd brings her championship swag to iHeart Women’s Sports with Fudd Around and Find Out, a weekly podcast that takes fans along for the ride as Azzi spends her final year of college trying to reclaim the National Championship and prepare to be a first round WNBA draft pick. Ever wonder what it’s like to be a world-class athlete in the public spotlight while still managing schoolwork, friendships and family time? It’s time to Fudd Around and Find Out!