September 3, 2024 • 36 mins
What if dating could be about exploration instead of a quest for lifelong commitment? Join therapist Jazzmyn Proctor as we rethink dating, making it a fun journey rather than a pressure-filled experience. We'll share tips on how to enjoy dating, understand different attachment styles, and embrace the ups and downs. Learn to set boundaries, manage fears, and trust your intuition in new relationships. By the end, you'll have a fresh perspective and practical tools for a more playful and enriching dating life.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
Welcome back to Confessions of a Wannabe it Girl
.
Today's episode we are divinginto the world of dating.
Now I have noticed I have somefriends out there who are still
very much in the single game anddating ain't easy.
Dating is stressful and youknow there's also a lot of
underlying issues within dating,because you know some person
may feel this way but you don'twant to say that and because
(00:22):
you're scared to scare them off.
Or you know we never know whatpeople's intentions are when
coming to dating and it justbecomes a lot so like how can we
make this just a fun processand enjoying dating?
So I am joined by JasmineProctor to dive into how to make
dating fun.
(00:43):
Welcome to Confessions of aWannabe it Girl.
I'm your host, marley Fregging,and I'm here to help you filter
out all the bullshit and becomethe next it Girl.
This podcast explores thereality of what it really takes
to make it out there.
As it turns out, it is way lessInstagrammable than I thought
it was going to be.
I'm still very much a work inprogress, but there's simply
(01:03):
nothing else I'd rather be doingthan chasing my dreams.
So let's learn from my mistakesand work together to achieve
our dreams with more confidence,clarity and direction.
Let's get after it, guys.
Welcome back to Confessions ofa Wannabe it Girl.
Today I'm joined by Jasmine, alovely therapist who focuses on
attachment and coaching andrelationships, so we're going to
(01:28):
dive into making dating fun andall the good things.
Well, welcome.
So much to the podcast.
Thanks for joining us.
Speaker 2 (01:35):
Thank you so much for having me, Marley.
I'm really excited to be here.
Speaker 1 (01:39):
Same.
I'm very excited for you to behere, because I feel like we
don't touch on this topic quiteenough, so I want to get into
why this became the focus ofyour work and what your work
really entails.
Speaker 2 (01:51):
So a lot of people do , they teach what they know.
They teach what they'veexperienced and so, thankfully,
I have had lots of relationships, friendships, dating
situationships.
I've learned to ebb and flow myfeelings and in those learning
experiences I've been like,actually I think I really want
(02:11):
to support other people indeepening their relationships
with others and themselves andkind of demystifying a lot of
the struggles that we experiencewithin, especially the dating
scene.
So I was like I make this mywork and it's so meaningful,
it's so fulfilling.
Speaker 1 (02:31):
And so, because you lived through it, you felt you
could relate, and you went inand studied and did this, and
now full-blown therapists takeclients to life coaching as well
.
And something super interestingis you kind of focus on
attachments.
What, what does that reallylike?
I mean, it's kind of a buzzwordwe've all heard like oh, what's
your attachment style?
(02:52):
What does that really mean,though?
Speaker 2 (02:54):
Oh, my goodness.
So the attachment is more ofthe scientific word.
That just delves into truly howwe attach to others as children
and so with caregivers.
If you are securely attached,you welcome the caregiver and
you also explore safely.
If you are anxious, you mightget anxious when they leave and
(03:17):
then not know how to feel whenthey return.
And then avoidant, you avoidthe whole thing and we have
co-opted attachment into kind ofthis, like you said, buzzword.
It is very much in themainstream right now but it's
much deeper than like, oh, I'manxiously attached or I'm so
avoidant.
Speaker 1 (03:38):
So there's a lot of pressure around dating.
I think we get in our headsthat the idea is always like
date to marry, date to settledown, date to find a life
partner, whatever it may be.
How do we start switching ourmindsets?
Or maybe look at dating as justsomething for fun?
How would you define dating forfun?
Speaker 2 (03:58):
Dating for fun is allowing yourself to explore
your partners, allowing yourselfto hurt, to make mistakes and
allowing yourself to be presentwithin dating.
I think so often we go intodate and say I'm here to lock
you in, I'm here to get marriedand build this life, and it's
(04:18):
like you're missing out on theexperience of dating, the fun of
dating, which I think is soexciting, when you allow
yourself to just immerseyourself without attaching
yourself to any outcome.
Speaker 1 (04:33):
Yeah, that's so true.
I mean I hear some of my singlefriends talk about dating and
it seems so serious, and maybebecause I have a rose-tinted
dating experience that I'm likeI have a, you know, rose tinted
dating experience.
That like I'm like, oh my God,no, it seems so fun to get asked
out on dates and, you know,treated to a dinner or like,
maybe like excitement of texting, but because they've been so
long in that whirlpool of it all, they feel more brought down by
(04:58):
it and those things you justsaid.
I'm like, wait, that actuallyjust sounds like good things to
have if you're dating for fun orif you're dating seriously too.
I don't think they're badeither way.
So what is some way we can makedating more playful in our
lives?
What is like a littleicebreaker, creative way to make
(05:19):
it not so life or death, if youwill.
Speaker 2 (05:25):
I think first we have to be honest about the fact
that any relationship is anenergetic exchange and so we are
going to have an emotionalresponse if it ends.
I think we go into datingguarding ourselves, wanting to
protect ourselves from gettinghurt natural for people and so
when we anticipate that hurt, wekind of freeze and we don't
(05:50):
allow ourselves the space tojust be present in the
relationship.
And so the first thing I wouldsay with dating is to
acknowledge that at the end ofit you might get hurt, and
that's okay.
They might not be forever foryou, and that's okay.
You might.
They might not be forever foryou, and that's okay.
Speaker 1 (06:07):
Yeah, that's, that's very true.
And if you know, they're notforever.
So so what you know, move on.
It's part of the journey and Ifeel as though it becomes so.
Life or death.
This could be the one that wekind of don't look to see.
Other things going on.
I mean it's been a minute sinceI'm in the dating game.
Maybe you could tell me alittle bit about what are some
(06:29):
common.
I don't want to say traps, butmaybe pitfalls or stumbles.
You see a lot in your line ofwork.
Speaker 2 (06:37):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (06:38):
Oh, we're unpacking something.
Speaker 2 (06:44):
I think one of the pitfalls in any scenario is the
communication.
I firmly believe that we usesituationships to sometimes be
shitty people.
We don't treat them as serious,as a serious relationship, and
so we go with the flow.
But we don't communicate thatintention to the other person,
(07:07):
and so you might be going withthe flow and the other person
might be like oh, I'm superinvested in you.
I think defining therelationship in any scenario
that the relationship is, is sovaluable If it's a casual dating
relationship name that it's notbig pressure to name it.
But we often avoid, we try toavoid what's spoken and leave it
(07:30):
unsaid in hopes that the otherperson will get the hint.
And that's how we create suchchallenging relationships and
that's how the dating justbecomes more painful than it
really needs to be.
Speaker 1 (07:44):
So would you encourage people first date,
first sit down, first text, tobe like hey, this is exactly
what I'm looking for.
Speaker 2 (07:51):
If they're bold and brave, keep it in your.
I mean, when I was datingespecially on like my Tinder
profile, my Bumble profile Iwould say I am here for a good
time, not a long time I knew Icouldn't commit, I wasn't ready
to commit, I wasn't looking foranybody.
So if they were reaching out tome, they already knew what they
(08:14):
were going to get.
And when I was serious, I waslike, yeah, like looking for
someone to date, looking forsomeone to go out with.
And so I think with datingprofiles especially, there is
this space to communicateclearly what our intentions are
in the dating space.
I think, if you don't want todo it over the first text, maybe
(08:35):
the first time you meet up withthem, or if you feel the vibe
is off to begin with, end it.
But we sometimes just dragthings out in fear of hurting
the other person's feelings.
But we're also hurting our ownfeelings.
We're not being fair toourselves or the other person
when we continue something thatwe're really not meant to be in
(08:56):
how does someone start touncover what their dating
intentions are?
Speaker 1 (09:03):
Because I also think the other flip side is I know
some people who say they havedating intention to just keep it
casual, but like we can all seeright through that and like you
are not trying to be casual,like you are looking for either
like real super casual or highcommitment.
So how do you actually A definewhat your intentions are and
(09:25):
then B communicate them?
Speaker 2 (09:29):
Honestly, when it comes to dating intention, it
has nothing to do with the otherperson, but it has more to do
with ourselves.
And so when we think aboutdating intentions we have to be
honest with are we trulyemotionally capable of having a
relationship with another person?
Are we truly ready andavailable Time, the emotional
(09:51):
space, the want to get to knowsomebody?
I think we say, and the mask is, oh, it's casual when deep down
, and sometimes your friends canpick it up, Everyone around you
can pick it up like, oh no,you're serious.
(10:11):
They just haven't acknowledgedthat within themselves.
And so sometimes thatincongruence is really just
looking at yourself and saying Iwant something serious, so at
least let me secure myself inthat first, or I want something
casual.
Let me secure myself in thatfirst, or I want something
casual.
Let me secure myself in thatfirst, and then I can
communicate that out to theperson that I'm with.
Speaker 1 (10:29):
And then I think where a lot of people start to
get a little off is trying toguess someone else's intentions.
I think it's a stickyconversation.
It can be a little awkward, alittle scary because of the fear
of rejection.
How do you really start to asksomebody their intentions with
dating if you don't know or ifyou're choosing not to see it?
Speaker 2 (10:53):
Well, if you're choosing not to see it, that's
just denial.
And so I don't know how much wecan help there.
But and I always say, likepeople that I work with, I say
when you have all of theinformation, you can make an
informed choice.
I feel like we ruminate and wecreate the scenarios, we create
(11:15):
the conversations in our mindand then we wait for them to
play out, versus saying this iswhat I want to know, this is
what will bring me peace, let mebring it to the table and then,
if they completely reject it,then you have your answer and
then you get to do whatever youwant.
And that's the beauty ofknowing is you get to make the
choice to stay or you get tomake the choice to jump ship.
Speaker 1 (11:38):
Yet why is the hamster wheel cycle to stay when
you know the answers of thisisn't going to pan out?
People do it time and timeagain.
Speaker 2 (11:57):
Oh, I've done it, I have stayed.
I have stayed too long, stayedtoo short, but I mean we do it
because we as humans wantconnection with other people.
That is human nature to beloved, to be seen, to be heard
by another human being.
And friendships aren't the sameas romantic relationships.
I think a lot of times whenespecially other couple people
are talking to their singlefriends, they're like, oh, but
(12:19):
you've got us, you've got yourfriends, and it's like it's not
the same thing and you're nothelping that person by telling
them that.
And so we as people want thatconnection and I think we also
fall in love with potential.
We fall in love with the ideaof what the person could be if
they just tried a little harder,if they just worked in one area
(12:41):
of their life or the other area.
And we attach ourselves to thepotential versus what is
actually present.
And that's how we get hurt.
Speaker 1 (12:51):
Ooh, that is sticky.
I love that because we do thinka lot about like well, it could
work out if we change X, Y, Z,but that's not necessarily going
to happen.
You can't control somebody elseto change.
That being said, it kind ofpivots back to if we're keeping
this in the fun or just enjoyingthe process even of dating.
(13:11):
Have you experienced, or hadsomeone experience, a
relationship situationship thatdidn't work out for the long
term but still had reallypositive effects for the person
in the relationshipsituationship?
Speaker 2 (13:26):
Yeah, so I remember in undergrad I was dating
somebody and it was extremelycasual and we would just do
unhinged stuff.
We snuck into a park at 2 AMand just walked around and hung
out.
And she would text me and belike, hey, let's go to this
(13:48):
party.
And I was like, okay, fine,I'll be over in two hours.
Then we'd hang out and we keptit very casual and she would
communicate her feelings,sometimes when she was under the
influence, and then that's whensome of that anxiousness and
avoidance started to jump outand I was like I'm confused now
(14:10):
I don't know what's going onhere.
And so when it ended I was like, well, yeah, like I was
expecting this to.
I wasn't expecting this to goanywhere, but I really it was
just so fun, Like I had so muchfun.
Speaker 1 (14:27):
Enjoyed the mountains .
Yeah, it sounds like you had agreat time.
I mean sounds like they werelovely and just wanted to
explore.
And I feel like this goes backto I just think of my single
friends, that I hear some ofthem go out to date, like on
dates, and something like thismagical may be happening like a
fun.
You're, you know this magicalmay be happening like a fun.
(14:49):
You're, you know, living lifeto the fullest eyes, blue and
beautiful.
But like you're like, well,this isn't end.
I'm like, just because it's notthe end game doesn't mean it's
not wonderful.
Why do we poo-poo thoseexperiences so much?
Speaker 2 (15:02):
Yeah, I mean scarcity too.
We like fear that this is thelast person that's going to see
us, that's going to love us,that this is the one
relationship that we are meantto be in, and it's like, no,
we're meant to.
We're going to grow as peopleand therefore our relationships
are going to change, and unlessthat person is willing to grow
(15:25):
with you, you got to let them go.
Speaker 1 (15:29):
And unless that person is willing to grow with
you, you got to let them go andthat's that.
But yet we are so grasping ontothe fear.
I mean God, the trauma that iscoming back to me is just like
oh my God, you're just like.
No, it feels like a failure.
Speaker 2 (15:50):
How do we shift our mindset from when a relationship
ends of thinking this is afailure, to just seeing a lesson
that we might learn from it.
Literally just talked aboutthis.
I think it's okay that werecognize that we have this
feeling that the ending of arelationship is a moral failing.
When people get divorced, whenwe break up even friendship
breakups we're like I could havefixed this, what could we have
(16:10):
done differently, what could wehave done better?
I think we have to sit in thatdiscomfort and ask ourselves why
do we think it's a moralfailing?
Why do we feel like suchfailures when a relationship
ends?
If we did everything we could,if we did try to communicate
everything that was meant to becommunicated, if we allow
(16:31):
ourselves the space to be hurt,to be upset and to be honest
about the fact that we are hurt.
I think that's how we caneventually let people go with
love.
It's not, it's going to end andyou're going to say whoop onto
the next.
That's not how that works, butbeing able to sit and say, man,
that sucked, Maybe we could havedone X, we could have done Y,
(16:55):
and then, moving through thosefeelings, to then allow yourself
to say, wow, I reallyappreciated that experience and
I can move and hold it with loverather than hate or resentment.
Speaker 1 (17:07):
Right too, and then I always love the person that was
in their lives at some point oryour life at one point and it's
like they've become a pillar of, like your conversational
content about dating.
Like it's always like theresentment so, so strong.
How do we convert that intojust lessons to help us down the
(17:28):
way?
Like how do we have reflectiveperspective towards casual
dating, fun dating, and reallylook at it as just lessons?
Speaker 2 (17:39):
Therapy.
I mean, that's like my firsttalk to somebody.
Speaker 1 (17:43):
Okay, bye, thank you guys so much, there's your
answer.
Speaker 2 (17:45):
Talk to somebody.
Okay bye, thank you guys.
So much there's your answer.
Working it out, talking throughit with somebody that you trust
, especially an objective personthat can help you see the
relationship from a bird's eyeview, is super helpful.
So, whether that's a mentor,therapist, a coach, anybody that
(18:06):
can support you in looking atyour relationships from an
outside view can really allowyou to see like, oh yeah, the
red flags were here all along.
We were not meant to be in thisrelationship.
I mean, that's the only waythat I personally have been able
to have better, deeperrelationships with other people
(18:30):
is being honest in therapy andsaying this is how the
relationship played out, this ishow they contributed to the
ending, but this is how I alsocontributed to the relationship.
I think we don't always like totake accountable for being
messy.
We don't.
We don't take thataccountability, and so it's like
, yeah, I was messy, I shouldn'thave done that, I could have
(18:51):
communicated better, and then Iget to do it differently the
next time.
Speaker 1 (18:55):
Yeah, and I mean I agree I haven't gone through a
lot of bad relationship breakupsand I do talk about it kind of
often is I did go through areally bad friendship breakup,
and it took me an astoundingamount of time to realize how
much my messiness played into ittoo.
It might take absence and spacefrom it before you notice it.
(19:18):
At least that's how I felt.
And then now I really try tolook at my relationships I have
with friends now, and even inlike in my you know relationship
relationship of what was notgood about that relationship,
but it took like a ton of time.
It wasn't like hindsight's,2020, like that and I think
(19:38):
allowing yourself to give thatmuch space about it is quite
helpful, because just jumpingfrom thing to thing is is kind
of scary, and I also think, like, did we really learn?
You did say a buzzword, though,and people have got some hot
takes about it.
Do you believe in red flags?
Speaker 2 (20:03):
Um, I think there are caution signs I won't say red
flags.
I think we, I think ourintuition tells us there are
some things that people dothat's incompatible.
Like, if I am someone that isalways on time and I'm starting
to date somebody who is late,chronically late, who is late,
(20:32):
chronically late, my intuitionmight say that might not be your
vibe, but if I'm choosing tostay, then that's me denying
what I'm feeling is not rightfor me.
And so it's not necessarily redflags, but it's us being able
to trust ourselves and beingable to be honest about what we
want out of a partner.
I think, because of the fear ofnot having somebody, the fear
of being forever alone, we canloosen up what we expect out of
(20:57):
another person.
Like there are otherchronically late people out in
the world.
They can date, they don't needto make reservations, they can
show up whenever I, on the otherhand, I'm like I would like
somebody who's at least 10minutes early and can and can
show up to somewhere on time.
Speaker 1 (21:12):
And that's okay.
Maybe, maybe, maybe that's it.
No, really, truly, I I'm verysimilar with the being on time
thing, but I think that'simportant.
No, it's not like it's a redflag for all.
Do not date this person becausethey have X Y Z flag.
It's not like it's a red flagfor all.
Do not date this person becausethey have X Y Z flag.
It's a red flag for me in thismoment currently, and maybe I
(21:34):
mean my mom used to be achronically on time girly.
I cannot get her to show up ontime ever again.
So you know, things change andyour red flags or I like what
you said caution signs mightchange and evolve and they're
not a blanket term for everyone.
Like we probably have differentones, we probably have ones
(21:56):
that are a green flag and thenmight be a red flag for somebody
else you never know?
Do you think it's important toacknowledge a red flag or
cautionary signal, even ifyou're just dating for fun?
Speaker 2 (22:11):
Yeah, cause then it's not fun.
I think that I still thinkthere is, should be, some level
of compatibility, or that youtwo are on the same wavelength
about the expectations and so ifyou both are on time for
something like yeah, hey, I'llmeet you at 630.
(22:32):
Let's grab a drink.
Great, keeping it simple,keeping it very cutesy and
moving it right along.
It's always so important tocommunicate that is the number
one point that I will always getacross that you important to
communicate your like.
That is like the number onepoint that I will always get
across that you have tocommunicate what your intentions
(22:54):
are, what you want and what youneed.
Now, if it's a casualrelationship, you might not
delve into.
You know kids, the house, thedeeper values and beliefs, and
you don't need to but the bare,the surface level.
Things are still important howyou like to spend your time,
what you enjoy doing like.
Those need to be compatible inorder for the experience to be
(23:18):
enjoyable.
Speaker 1 (23:19):
Yeah, I mean not that I'm currently going through
this, but somebody who iscurrently working on being a
boundary builder is, I thinkthat not at least recognizing
them or at least saying your twocents about something you know
isn't going to work for you inthe longterm.
For me that would be badpractice, like I'd be like oh
I'm, I'm giving up practice ofwhat I really want in a
(23:41):
relationship down the line.
Like I would see that as amoment to really practice
expressing what are important tome, even if this is just for
fun.
I don't see a future, but youknow, us boundary builders got
to take them all where we canbecause we've got time to make
up on how to build up thoseboundaries.
I want to talk a little bitabout, though.
(24:04):
Like it can be scary to tellpeople what your intentions are
or what your boundaries are.
How do you get over that fearof communication, casually and
maybe seriously, like you mayknow, but you may be so scared
to tell them.
Like, how do you open that doorfor that conversation?
Speaker 2 (24:27):
That also goes back to the relationship with
yourself with that boundary.
So if, let's say, my boundaryis I can't be with the person
that wears white after Labor Day, like if I am secure enough in
that choice and I'm willing toverbalize that out to that
(24:50):
person, okay, and the caveat tothat is I have to be okay with
how they respond.
And that's where we try tocontrol the situation.
That's where we try to fit itinto a box is that we
communicate something and thenwe try to create the perfect
(25:11):
scenario where the personresponds exactly how we want
them to.
And that's not always the case.
I always well, it's not me.
A lot of people say boundariesare supposed to keep you and the
other person in mind.
It is loving you and the otherperson at the same time, and so
(25:33):
when you're setting thatboundary, when you're saying,
hey, this is what I need.
Hey, I don't appreciate thatyou didn't check in with me.
How that person responds ismore a reflection of where they
are versus what you are actuallycommunicating to them.
Speaker 1 (25:50):
I love that because I think when we talk about even
myself being like working onboundaries, it's kind of selfish
, like it's you know, it's foryou, it's for your boundaries,
but also like you're kind ofdoing a disservice to whoever
you're in a relationship with bynot having boundaries, because
then they're kind of justshooting in the dark about how
they think they can treat you,so you're sending you both up
(26:13):
for failure, but we think of itor at least I have thought of it
really as just a one-sidedstreet.
That being said, seeing you'rean expert in attachments and
attachment styles, can you giveus a little skinny, a little bit
of the rundown of attachmentstyles and then, who tends to
(26:34):
have what kind of attachmentstyle?
Speaker 2 (26:36):
I'll start with anxious, because the anxious one
is more obvious Perfect,beautiful, welcome.
The anxious is a chaser.
They're like, because they wantthat validation, they need to
know that they're okay, thatthey're secure in the
relationship.
So they're often chasing thevalidation.
They are often checking in tomake sure everything's good,
(26:58):
everything's smooth,everything's clear.
You're like yes, we arechecking, we are looking, we are
making sure we're good.
I fall more on the avoidancescale and the reason you don't
hear about an avoidant isbecause they disappear.
They don't say it, they willavoid the conversation out of
fear of rejection, out of fearof abandonment, and the avoidant
(27:24):
is the silent mover.
And so often you hear theanxious avoidant pairing and
I've started to call it the catand mouse theory, in the sense
that the mouse is the anxiousperson chasing the avoidant and
the avoidant is just movingfurther and further away and the
anxious is like no, come in,come in.
(27:45):
The avoidant secretly likes itbecause it's like oh yeah, you
do want me, I'll slowly comeback to you, but it's this chase
that has to, that has to happen.
And that's how I view those two.
And then the ideal scenario isthe secure attachment which I
want to debunk here.
It is my mission to debunk that.
(28:07):
Being securely attached doesnot mean you don't need anything
from anyone.
It does not mean you are anindependent girly who's got it,
who doesn't need to ask foranything.
A secure attachment means youcan ask for what you need and
trust that your partner is goingto reciprocate or respond in a
(28:28):
positive manner.
Speaker 1 (28:32):
I, I'm, I'm ready, show me, show me these people I
need to learn a lot from no andI.
But I do think that's importantto think because I even like
I'll read online and like,secure, I'm just like I don't
know anybody like that.
In my mind, I might, who knows?
I don't think that it takesaway your need to, you know, be
told good job or, like you know,just checking in on how you're
(29:00):
doing, just because you'resecure doesn't mean like you
don't have a pulse and you stillhave a heart and want to be
told good things and we doreally kind of think like, oh,
these amazing superpower humansthat don't exist.
They're still human and theyneed to hear that.
What kind of strategies wouldyou suggest to somebody who is
trying to grow in theirattachment style or learn to
work with their attachment style?
Speaker 2 (29:20):
Allowing yourself to have some awareness of what your
tendencies are.
So if you find yourself moreanxious, needing that
reassurance constantly, nottrusting what the other person
is saying, within thatrelationship, it's like, okay,
am I with the wrong person?
Because that can trigger itsown attachment style, like our
(29:43):
attachment style can ebb andflow depending on the
relationship.
So if we're not in the rightrelationship, it will certainly
make us want to seek out theperson more than we need to
maybe or maybe avoid becausewe're not going to get that need
met.
And so evaluating therelationship and then asking
yourself what is thisrelationship actually giving me?
(30:04):
Am I lonely?
Am I just literally with thisperson?
Because I just need to be withsomebody?
That's its own thing, and thenyou'll accept just as much if
that is the case.
So I would say one strategy isjust allowing yourself to be
aware.
I know I keep sayingcommunication, but communication
(30:28):
truly can debunk anyuncertainty or any questions
that you might have.
And curiosity I think we're notcurious enough about our own
intentions and relationships,we're not curious enough about
the other person's intentions,and so we jump to assumptions,
we jump to conclusions, and soallowing ourselves to be curious
(30:52):
and explore the relationshipopenly and being open to the
possibility that it might notwork out can give us some really
good insight.
Speaker 1 (31:02):
Yeah, and I think, even like looking at the
healthiest relationships, Ithink the people that are in the
healthiest relationships thinklike this could end because you
don't act like this is foreverand it's all chill and we're all
dandy it's.
You don't act like this isforever and it's all chill and
we're all dandy it's.
This is constantly takes work,adjustment, um, and seeing what
can be changed.
(31:23):
As you were talking, a questiondid pop into my head, though
you know maybe I'm thinking likeoh, I'm going to anxious
attachment style just becauseI'm an anxious person, do you
have to be like an avoidantperson to have an avoidant
attachment style, or same withanxious or secure?
You know cause I think about Imean, I hope the relationship
(31:44):
with my fiance.
I literally say all the timethe reason we work so well is
like I don't have fear to justsay what I need or want or
whatnot, versus in otherrelationships I would have.
Do they have to be like whereyou're at, mentally as well?
Speaker 2 (32:00):
Absolutely so.
A lot of people, I mean, wouldlook at me and say, oh, she's
like confident, she'll ask forwhat she wants.
She can do it.
When it comes to asking forhelp, it's so hard for me to ask
for help because I am so afraidof being rejected.
When it comes to looking forvalidation or reassurance, I may
(32:21):
say a statement in hopes thatthe other person will validate
that statement, but I'm notgoing to directly ask them to
validate that statement, and soit can depend on the
relationship and it can dependon where we are.
But again, the relationshipslike, kind of like the
relationships bring outdifferent ways of how we attach
(32:45):
to other people.
Speaker 1 (32:47):
Yeah, so it's not so black and white just because,
like you're anxious, you'rehaving an anxious, it's having
style and they do have in flow.
You know I I don't get me wrongI am somebody who loves the
generator, the manifestor,attachment, styles and whatnot,
but I don't think it's acomplete science.
I mean, some people are superobsessed with their astrological
signs and I still think they'veall got some ebb and flow to
(33:09):
them.
So, going back to this idea ofstepping out and just maybe
making dating fun again, makedating fun again, woo.
What advice would you give tosomebody who'd be hesitant to
date for fun because they'rethey have the fear of getting
her or wasting their time?
Speaker 2 (33:30):
You're going to get hurt.
But the reframe of the timebeing wasted is that it's an
experience that you get to lookback on and say, wow, I got to
experience this person for thisamount of time.
And I imagine, depending on age, depending on life experience,
(33:52):
depending on where you are inyour life, you might be like on
where you are in your life, youmight be like no, I got things
to do, I got a person to be with, I have a life plan, and that
life plan will fuck us everytime If we put ourselves on
arbitrary timelines that reallydon't matter except for in our
heads, like we make thistimeline of how things should
(34:15):
look and when they're supposedto happen.
Speaker 1 (34:26):
Once we let that go, then we allow ourselves to be
flexible and to be open withdating and I don't want to say
it because I feel like it's acatch-22, but it's like usually,
when you finally surrender andgive it over, it usually works
out.
But I'm hesitant to say thatbecause people are like I've
surrendered, I've it over.
It usually works out, but I'mhesitant to say that because
people are like I've surrendered, I've given over, and if you
know them real well, you'll seeright through it.
But you truly, mentally,physically, spiritually, life
(34:48):
coached and blessed by yourmother, have to be there before
that actually happens.
You cannot fake it.
Speaker 2 (34:55):
You cannot be looking for sure, you can't like have
your binoculars out ready at atthe grocery store.
You're like I'm going to bumpinto him, like near the apples
or I'm going to yeah, I'm at the, I'm at the mall.
It's like no it'll.
It'll come to you when you'releast expecting it, and then
that's when you'll be sometimesthe most ready.
(35:17):
Maybe not, or you won't beready, but you're willing to
figure it out with that person.
Speaker 1 (35:22):
Yes, ah, gaz, you are so wonderful.
I love shooting the shit aboutdating, even though I have so
little experience to offer here.
You are so wonderful.
You need to tell everybodywhere they can find you.
Speaker 2 (35:36):
You can find me on Instagram Unilone Wellness LLC.
You can find me on threads.
I think that's pretty much.
I have a podcast All Our Parts.
Marley, I would love to returnthe favor and have you on.
I've enjoyed this conversationso much, oh my gosh.
Speaker 1 (35:54):
Thank you so much for being here.
Thank you so much for listeningto Confessions of a Wannabe it
Girl.
Don't forget to rate andsubscribe to the show.
As always, we'll see you nextTuesday.
Welcome back to Confessions of a Wannabe it Girl
.
Today's episode we are divinginto the world of dating.
Now I have noticed I have somefriends out there who are still
very much in the single game anddating ain't easy.
Dating is stressful and youknow there's also a lot of
underlying issues within dating,because you know some person
may feel this way but you don'twant to say that and because
(00:22):
you're scared to scare them off.
Or you know we never know whatpeople's intentions are when
coming to dating and it justbecomes a lot so like how can we
make this just a fun processand enjoying dating?
So I am joined by JasmineProctor to dive into how to make
dating fun.
(00:43):
Welcome to Confessions of aWannabe it Girl.
I'm your host, marley Fregging,and I'm here to help you filter
out all the bullshit and becomethe next it Girl.
This podcast explores thereality of what it really takes
to make it out there.
As it turns out, it is way lessInstagrammable than I thought
it was going to be.
I'm still very much a work inprogress, but there's simply
(01:03):
nothing else I'd rather be doingthan chasing my dreams.
So let's learn from my mistakesand work together to achieve
our dreams with more confidence,clarity and direction.
Let's get after it, guys.
Welcome back to Confessions ofa Wannabe it Girl.
Today I'm joined by Jasmine, alovely therapist who focuses on
attachment and coaching andrelationships, so we're going to
(01:28):
dive into making dating fun andall the good things.
Well, welcome.
So much to the podcast.
Thanks for joining us.
Speaker 2 (01:35):
Thank you so much for having me, Marley.
I'm really excited to be here.
Speaker 1 (01:39):
Same.
I'm very excited for you to behere, because I feel like we
don't touch on this topic quiteenough, so I want to get into
why this became the focus ofyour work and what your work
really entails.
Speaker 2 (01:51):
So a lot of people do , they teach what they know.
They teach what they'veexperienced and so, thankfully,
I have had lots of relationships, friendships, dating
situationships.
I've learned to ebb and flow myfeelings and in those learning
experiences I've been like,actually I think I really want
(02:11):
to support other people indeepening their relationships
with others and themselves andkind of demystifying a lot of
the struggles that we experiencewithin, especially the dating
scene.
So I was like I make this mywork and it's so meaningful,
it's so fulfilling.
Speaker 1 (02:31):
And so, because you lived through it, you felt you
could relate, and you went inand studied and did this, and
now full-blown therapists takeclients to life coaching as well
.
And something super interestingis you kind of focus on
attachments.
What, what does that reallylike?
I mean, it's kind of a buzzwordwe've all heard like oh, what's
your attachment style?
(02:52):
What does that really mean,though?
Speaker 2 (02:54):
Oh, my goodness.
So the attachment is more ofthe scientific word.
That just delves into truly howwe attach to others as children
and so with caregivers.
If you are securely attached,you welcome the caregiver and
you also explore safely.
If you are anxious, you mightget anxious when they leave and
(03:17):
then not know how to feel whenthey return.
And then avoidant, you avoidthe whole thing and we have
co-opted attachment into kind ofthis, like you said, buzzword.
It is very much in themainstream right now but it's
much deeper than like, oh, I'manxiously attached or I'm so
avoidant.
Speaker 1 (03:38):
So there's a lot of pressure around dating.
I think we get in our headsthat the idea is always like
date to marry, date to settledown, date to find a life
partner, whatever it may be.
How do we start switching ourmindsets?
Or maybe look at dating as justsomething for fun?
How would you define dating forfun?
Speaker 2 (03:58):
Dating for fun is allowing yourself to explore
your partners, allowing yourselfto hurt, to make mistakes and
allowing yourself to be presentwithin dating.
I think so often we go intodate and say I'm here to lock
you in, I'm here to get marriedand build this life, and it's
(04:18):
like you're missing out on theexperience of dating, the fun of
dating, which I think is soexciting, when you allow
yourself to just immerseyourself without attaching
yourself to any outcome.
Speaker 1 (04:33):
Yeah, that's so true.
I mean I hear some of my singlefriends talk about dating and
it seems so serious, and maybebecause I have a rose-tinted
dating experience that I'm likeI have a, you know, rose tinted
dating experience.
That like I'm like, oh my God,no, it seems so fun to get asked
out on dates and, you know,treated to a dinner or like,
maybe like excitement of texting, but because they've been so
long in that whirlpool of it all, they feel more brought down by
(04:58):
it and those things you justsaid.
I'm like, wait, that actuallyjust sounds like good things to
have if you're dating for fun orif you're dating seriously too.
I don't think they're badeither way.
So what is some way we can makedating more playful in our
lives?
What is like a littleicebreaker, creative way to make
(05:19):
it not so life or death, if youwill.
Speaker 2 (05:25):
I think first we have to be honest about the fact
that any relationship is anenergetic exchange and so we are
going to have an emotionalresponse if it ends.
I think we go into datingguarding ourselves, wanting to
protect ourselves from gettinghurt natural for people and so
when we anticipate that hurt, wekind of freeze and we don't
(05:50):
allow ourselves the space tojust be present in the
relationship.
And so the first thing I wouldsay with dating is to
acknowledge that at the end ofit you might get hurt, and
that's okay.
They might not be forever foryou, and that's okay.
You might.
They might not be forever foryou, and that's okay.
Speaker 1 (06:07):
Yeah, that's, that's very true.
And if you know, they're notforever.
So so what you know, move on.
It's part of the journey and Ifeel as though it becomes so.
Life or death.
This could be the one that wekind of don't look to see.
Other things going on.
I mean it's been a minute sinceI'm in the dating game.
Maybe you could tell me alittle bit about what are some
(06:29):
common.
I don't want to say traps, butmaybe pitfalls or stumbles.
You see a lot in your line ofwork.
Speaker 2 (06:37):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (06:38):
Oh, we're unpacking something.
Speaker 2 (06:44):
I think one of the pitfalls in any scenario is the
communication.
I firmly believe that we usesituationships to sometimes be
shitty people.
We don't treat them as serious,as a serious relationship, and
so we go with the flow.
But we don't communicate thatintention to the other person,
(07:07):
and so you might be going withthe flow and the other person
might be like oh, I'm superinvested in you.
I think defining therelationship in any scenario
that the relationship is, is sovaluable If it's a casual dating
relationship name that it's notbig pressure to name it.
But we often avoid, we try toavoid what's spoken and leave it
(07:30):
unsaid in hopes that the otherperson will get the hint.
And that's how we create suchchallenging relationships and
that's how the dating justbecomes more painful than it
really needs to be.
Speaker 1 (07:44):
So would you encourage people first date,
first sit down, first text, tobe like hey, this is exactly
what I'm looking for.
Speaker 2 (07:51):
If they're bold and brave, keep it in your.
I mean, when I was datingespecially on like my Tinder
profile, my Bumble profile Iwould say I am here for a good
time, not a long time I knew Icouldn't commit, I wasn't ready
to commit, I wasn't looking foranybody.
So if they were reaching out tome, they already knew what they
(08:14):
were going to get.
And when I was serious, I waslike, yeah, like looking for
someone to date, looking forsomeone to go out with.
And so I think with datingprofiles especially, there is
this space to communicateclearly what our intentions are
in the dating space.
I think, if you don't want todo it over the first text, maybe
(08:35):
the first time you meet up withthem, or if you feel the vibe
is off to begin with, end it.
But we sometimes just dragthings out in fear of hurting
the other person's feelings.
But we're also hurting our ownfeelings.
We're not being fair toourselves or the other person
when we continue something thatwe're really not meant to be in
(08:56):
how does someone start touncover what their dating
intentions are?
Speaker 1 (09:03):
Because I also think the other flip side is I know
some people who say they havedating intention to just keep it
casual, but like we can all seeright through that and like you
are not trying to be casual,like you are looking for either
like real super casual or highcommitment.
So how do you actually A definewhat your intentions are and
(09:25):
then B communicate them?
Speaker 2 (09:29):
Honestly, when it comes to dating intention, it
has nothing to do with the otherperson, but it has more to do
with ourselves.
And so when we think aboutdating intentions we have to be
honest with are we trulyemotionally capable of having a
relationship with another person?
Are we truly ready andavailable Time, the emotional
(09:51):
space, the want to get to knowsomebody?
I think we say, and the mask is, oh, it's casual when deep down
, and sometimes your friends canpick it up, Everyone around you
can pick it up like, oh no,you're serious.
(10:11):
They just haven't acknowledgedthat within themselves.
And so sometimes thatincongruence is really just
looking at yourself and saying Iwant something serious, so at
least let me secure myself inthat first, or I want something
casual.
Let me secure myself in thatfirst, or I want something
casual.
Let me secure myself in thatfirst, and then I can
communicate that out to theperson that I'm with.
Speaker 1 (10:29):
And then I think where a lot of people start to
get a little off is trying toguess someone else's intentions.
I think it's a stickyconversation.
It can be a little awkward, alittle scary because of the fear
of rejection.
How do you really start to asksomebody their intentions with
dating if you don't know or ifyou're choosing not to see it?
Speaker 2 (10:53):
Well, if you're choosing not to see it, that's
just denial.
And so I don't know how much wecan help there.
But and I always say, likepeople that I work with, I say
when you have all of theinformation, you can make an
informed choice.
I feel like we ruminate and wecreate the scenarios, we create
(11:15):
the conversations in our mindand then we wait for them to
play out, versus saying this iswhat I want to know, this is
what will bring me peace, let mebring it to the table and then,
if they completely reject it,then you have your answer and
then you get to do whatever youwant.
And that's the beauty ofknowing is you get to make the
choice to stay or you get tomake the choice to jump ship.
Speaker 1 (11:38):
Yet why is the hamster wheel cycle to stay when
you know the answers of thisisn't going to pan out?
People do it time and timeagain.
Speaker 2 (11:57):
Oh, I've done it, I have stayed.
I have stayed too long, stayedtoo short, but I mean we do it
because we as humans wantconnection with other people.
That is human nature to beloved, to be seen, to be heard
by another human being.
And friendships aren't the sameas romantic relationships.
I think a lot of times whenespecially other couple people
are talking to their singlefriends, they're like, oh, but
(12:19):
you've got us, you've got yourfriends, and it's like it's not
the same thing and you're nothelping that person by telling
them that.
And so we as people want thatconnection and I think we also
fall in love with potential.
We fall in love with the ideaof what the person could be if
they just tried a little harder,if they just worked in one area
(12:41):
of their life or the other area.
And we attach ourselves to thepotential versus what is
actually present.
And that's how we get hurt.
Speaker 1 (12:51):
Ooh, that is sticky.
I love that because we do thinka lot about like well, it could
work out if we change X, Y, Z,but that's not necessarily going
to happen.
You can't control somebody elseto change.
That being said, it kind ofpivots back to if we're keeping
this in the fun or just enjoyingthe process even of dating.
(13:11):
Have you experienced, or hadsomeone experience, a
relationship situationship thatdidn't work out for the long
term but still had reallypositive effects for the person
in the relationshipsituationship?
Speaker 2 (13:26):
Yeah, so I remember in undergrad I was dating
somebody and it was extremelycasual and we would just do
unhinged stuff.
We snuck into a park at 2 AMand just walked around and hung
out.
And she would text me and belike, hey, let's go to this
(13:48):
party.
And I was like, okay, fine,I'll be over in two hours.
Then we'd hang out and we keptit very casual and she would
communicate her feelings,sometimes when she was under the
influence, and then that's whensome of that anxiousness and
avoidance started to jump outand I was like I'm confused now
(14:10):
I don't know what's going onhere.
And so when it ended I was like, well, yeah, like I was
expecting this to.
I wasn't expecting this to goanywhere, but I really it was
just so fun, Like I had so muchfun.
Speaker 1 (14:27):
Enjoyed the mountains .
Yeah, it sounds like you had agreat time.
I mean sounds like they werelovely and just wanted to
explore.
And I feel like this goes backto I just think of my single
friends, that I hear some ofthem go out to date, like on
dates, and something like thismagical may be happening like a
fun.
You're, you know this magicalmay be happening like a fun.
(14:49):
You're, you know, living lifeto the fullest eyes, blue and
beautiful.
But like you're like, well,this isn't end.
I'm like, just because it's notthe end game doesn't mean it's
not wonderful.
Why do we poo-poo thoseexperiences so much?
Speaker 2 (15:02):
Yeah, I mean scarcity too.
We like fear that this is thelast person that's going to see
us, that's going to love us,that this is the one
relationship that we are meantto be in, and it's like, no,
we're meant to.
We're going to grow as peopleand therefore our relationships
are going to change, and unlessthat person is willing to grow
(15:25):
with you, you got to let them go.
Speaker 1 (15:29):
And unless that person is willing to grow with
you, you got to let them go andthat's that.
But yet we are so grasping ontothe fear.
I mean God, the trauma that iscoming back to me is just like
oh my God, you're just like.
No, it feels like a failure.
Speaker 2 (15:50):
How do we shift our mindset from when a relationship
ends of thinking this is afailure, to just seeing a lesson
that we might learn from it.
Literally just talked aboutthis.
I think it's okay that werecognize that we have this
feeling that the ending of arelationship is a moral failing.
When people get divorced, whenwe break up even friendship
breakups we're like I could havefixed this, what could we have
(16:10):
done differently, what could wehave done better?
I think we have to sit in thatdiscomfort and ask ourselves why
do we think it's a moralfailing?
Why do we feel like suchfailures when a relationship
ends?
If we did everything we could,if we did try to communicate
everything that was meant to becommunicated, if we allow
(16:31):
ourselves the space to be hurt,to be upset and to be honest
about the fact that we are hurt.
I think that's how we caneventually let people go with
love.
It's not, it's going to end andyou're going to say whoop onto
the next.
That's not how that works, butbeing able to sit and say, man,
that sucked, Maybe we could havedone X, we could have done Y,
(16:55):
and then, moving through thosefeelings, to then allow yourself
to say, wow, I reallyappreciated that experience and
I can move and hold it with loverather than hate or resentment.
Speaker 1 (17:07):
Right too, and then I always love the person that was
in their lives at some point oryour life at one point and it's
like they've become a pillar of, like your conversational
content about dating.
Like it's always like theresentment so, so strong.
How do we convert that intojust lessons to help us down the
(17:28):
way?
Like how do we have reflectiveperspective towards casual
dating, fun dating, and reallylook at it as just lessons?
Speaker 2 (17:39):
Therapy.
I mean, that's like my firsttalk to somebody.
Speaker 1 (17:43):
Okay, bye, thank you guys so much, there's your
answer.
Speaker 2 (17:45):
Talk to somebody.
Okay bye, thank you guys.
So much there's your answer.
Working it out, talking throughit with somebody that you trust
, especially an objective personthat can help you see the
relationship from a bird's eyeview, is super helpful.
So, whether that's a mentor,therapist, a coach, anybody that
(18:06):
can support you in looking atyour relationships from an
outside view can really allowyou to see like, oh yeah, the
red flags were here all along.
We were not meant to be in thisrelationship.
I mean, that's the only waythat I personally have been able
to have better, deeperrelationships with other people
(18:30):
is being honest in therapy andsaying this is how the
relationship played out, this ishow they contributed to the
ending, but this is how I alsocontributed to the relationship.
I think we don't always like totake accountable for being
messy.
We don't.
We don't take thataccountability, and so it's like
, yeah, I was messy, I shouldn'thave done that, I could have
(18:51):
communicated better, and then Iget to do it differently the
next time.
Speaker 1 (18:55):
Yeah, and I mean I agree I haven't gone through a
lot of bad relationship breakupsand I do talk about it kind of
often is I did go through areally bad friendship breakup,
and it took me an astoundingamount of time to realize how
much my messiness played into ittoo.
It might take absence and spacefrom it before you notice it.
(19:18):
At least that's how I felt.
And then now I really try tolook at my relationships I have
with friends now, and even inlike in my you know relationship
relationship of what was notgood about that relationship,
but it took like a ton of time.
It wasn't like hindsight's,2020, like that and I think
(19:38):
allowing yourself to give thatmuch space about it is quite
helpful, because just jumpingfrom thing to thing is is kind
of scary, and I also think, like, did we really learn?
You did say a buzzword, though,and people have got some hot
takes about it.
Do you believe in red flags?
Speaker 2 (20:03):
Um, I think there are caution signs I won't say red
flags.
I think we, I think ourintuition tells us there are
some things that people dothat's incompatible.
Like, if I am someone that isalways on time and I'm starting
to date somebody who is late,chronically late, who is late,
(20:32):
chronically late, my intuitionmight say that might not be your
vibe, but if I'm choosing tostay, then that's me denying
what I'm feeling is not rightfor me.
And so it's not necessarily redflags, but it's us being able
to trust ourselves and beingable to be honest about what we
want out of a partner.
I think, because of the fear ofnot having somebody, the fear
of being forever alone, we canloosen up what we expect out of
(20:57):
another person.
Like there are otherchronically late people out in
the world.
They can date, they don't needto make reservations, they can
show up whenever I, on the otherhand, I'm like I would like
somebody who's at least 10minutes early and can and can
show up to somewhere on time.
Speaker 1 (21:12):
And that's okay.
Maybe, maybe, maybe that's it.
No, really, truly, I I'm verysimilar with the being on time
thing, but I think that'simportant.
No, it's not like it's a redflag for all.
Do not date this person becausethey have X Y Z flag.
It's not like it's a red flagfor all.
Do not date this person becausethey have X Y Z flag.
It's a red flag for me in thismoment currently, and maybe I
(21:34):
mean my mom used to be achronically on time girly.
I cannot get her to show up ontime ever again.
So you know, things change andyour red flags or I like what
you said caution signs mightchange and evolve and they're
not a blanket term for everyone.
Like we probably have differentones, we probably have ones
(21:56):
that are a green flag and thenmight be a red flag for somebody
else you never know?
Do you think it's important toacknowledge a red flag or
cautionary signal, even ifyou're just dating for fun?
Speaker 2 (22:11):
Yeah, cause then it's not fun.
I think that I still thinkthere is, should be, some level
of compatibility, or that youtwo are on the same wavelength
about the expectations and so ifyou both are on time for
something like yeah, hey, I'llmeet you at 630.
(22:32):
Let's grab a drink.
Great, keeping it simple,keeping it very cutesy and
moving it right along.
It's always so important tocommunicate that is the number
one point that I will always getacross that you important to
communicate your like.
That is like the number onepoint that I will always get
across that you have tocommunicate what your intentions
(22:54):
are, what you want and what youneed.
Now, if it's a casualrelationship, you might not
delve into.
You know kids, the house, thedeeper values and beliefs, and
you don't need to but the bare,the surface level.
Things are still important howyou like to spend your time,
what you enjoy doing like.
Those need to be compatible inorder for the experience to be
(23:18):
enjoyable.
Speaker 1 (23:19):
Yeah, I mean not that I'm currently going through
this, but somebody who iscurrently working on being a
boundary builder is, I thinkthat not at least recognizing
them or at least saying your twocents about something you know
isn't going to work for you inthe longterm.
For me that would be badpractice, like I'd be like oh
I'm, I'm giving up practice ofwhat I really want in a
(23:41):
relationship down the line.
Like I would see that as amoment to really practice
expressing what are important tome, even if this is just for
fun.
I don't see a future, but youknow, us boundary builders got
to take them all where we canbecause we've got time to make
up on how to build up thoseboundaries.
I want to talk a little bitabout, though.
(24:04):
Like it can be scary to tellpeople what your intentions are
or what your boundaries are.
How do you get over that fearof communication, casually and
maybe seriously, like you mayknow, but you may be so scared
to tell them.
Like, how do you open that doorfor that conversation?
Speaker 2 (24:27):
That also goes back to the relationship with
yourself with that boundary.
So if, let's say, my boundaryis I can't be with the person
that wears white after Labor Day, like if I am secure enough in
that choice and I'm willing toverbalize that out to that
(24:50):
person, okay, and the caveat tothat is I have to be okay with
how they respond.
And that's where we try tocontrol the situation.
That's where we try to fit itinto a box is that we
communicate something and thenwe try to create the perfect
(25:11):
scenario where the personresponds exactly how we want
them to.
And that's not always the case.
I always well, it's not me.
A lot of people say boundariesare supposed to keep you and the
other person in mind.
It is loving you and the otherperson at the same time, and so
(25:33):
when you're setting thatboundary, when you're saying,
hey, this is what I need.
Hey, I don't appreciate thatyou didn't check in with me.
How that person responds ismore a reflection of where they
are versus what you are actuallycommunicating to them.
Speaker 1 (25:50):
I love that because I think when we talk about even
myself being like working onboundaries, it's kind of selfish
, like it's you know, it's foryou, it's for your boundaries,
but also like you're kind ofdoing a disservice to whoever
you're in a relationship with bynot having boundaries, because
then they're kind of justshooting in the dark about how
they think they can treat you,so you're sending you both up
(26:13):
for failure, but we think of itor at least I have thought of it
really as just a one-sidedstreet.
That being said, seeing you'rean expert in attachments and
attachment styles, can you giveus a little skinny, a little bit
of the rundown of attachmentstyles and then, who tends to
(26:34):
have what kind of attachmentstyle?
Speaker 2 (26:36):
I'll start with anxious, because the anxious one
is more obvious Perfect,beautiful, welcome.
The anxious is a chaser.
They're like, because they wantthat validation, they need to
know that they're okay, thatthey're secure in the
relationship.
So they're often chasing thevalidation.
They are often checking in tomake sure everything's good,
(26:58):
everything's smooth,everything's clear.
You're like yes, we arechecking, we are looking, we are
making sure we're good.
I fall more on the avoidancescale and the reason you don't
hear about an avoidant isbecause they disappear.
They don't say it, they willavoid the conversation out of
fear of rejection, out of fearof abandonment, and the avoidant
(27:24):
is the silent mover.
And so often you hear theanxious avoidant pairing and
I've started to call it the catand mouse theory, in the sense
that the mouse is the anxiousperson chasing the avoidant and
the avoidant is just movingfurther and further away and the
anxious is like no, come in,come in.
(27:45):
The avoidant secretly likes itbecause it's like oh yeah, you
do want me, I'll slowly comeback to you, but it's this chase
that has to, that has to happen.
And that's how I view those two.
And then the ideal scenario isthe secure attachment which I
want to debunk here.
It is my mission to debunk that.
(28:07):
Being securely attached doesnot mean you don't need anything
from anyone.
It does not mean you are anindependent girly who's got it,
who doesn't need to ask foranything.
A secure attachment means youcan ask for what you need and
trust that your partner is goingto reciprocate or respond in a
(28:28):
positive manner.
Speaker 1 (28:32):
I, I'm, I'm ready, show me, show me these people I
need to learn a lot from no andI.
But I do think that's importantto think because I even like
I'll read online and like,secure, I'm just like I don't
know anybody like that.
In my mind, I might, who knows?
I don't think that it takesaway your need to, you know, be
told good job or, like you know,just checking in on how you're
(29:00):
doing, just because you'resecure doesn't mean like you
don't have a pulse and you stillhave a heart and want to be
told good things and we doreally kind of think like, oh,
these amazing superpower humansthat don't exist.
They're still human and theyneed to hear that.
What kind of strategies wouldyou suggest to somebody who is
trying to grow in theirattachment style or learn to
work with their attachment style?
Speaker 2 (29:20):
Allowing yourself to have some awareness of what your
tendencies are.
So if you find yourself moreanxious, needing that
reassurance constantly, nottrusting what the other person
is saying, within thatrelationship, it's like, okay,
am I with the wrong person?
Because that can trigger itsown attachment style, like our
(29:43):
attachment style can ebb andflow depending on the
relationship.
So if we're not in the rightrelationship, it will certainly
make us want to seek out theperson more than we need to
maybe or maybe avoid becausewe're not going to get that need
met.
And so evaluating therelationship and then asking
yourself what is thisrelationship actually giving me?
(30:04):
Am I lonely?
Am I just literally with thisperson?
Because I just need to be withsomebody?
That's its own thing, and thenyou'll accept just as much if
that is the case.
So I would say one strategy isjust allowing yourself to be
aware.
I know I keep sayingcommunication, but communication
(30:28):
truly can debunk anyuncertainty or any questions
that you might have.
And curiosity I think we're notcurious enough about our own
intentions and relationships,we're not curious enough about
the other person's intentions,and so we jump to assumptions,
we jump to conclusions, and soallowing ourselves to be curious
(30:52):
and explore the relationshipopenly and being open to the
possibility that it might notwork out can give us some really
good insight.
Speaker 1 (31:02):
Yeah, and I think, even like looking at the
healthiest relationships, Ithink the people that are in the
healthiest relationships thinklike this could end because you
don't act like this is foreverand it's all chill and we're all
dandy it's.
You don't act like this isforever and it's all chill and
we're all dandy it's.
This is constantly takes work,adjustment, um, and seeing what
can be changed.
(31:23):
As you were talking, a questiondid pop into my head, though
you know maybe I'm thinking likeoh, I'm going to anxious
attachment style just becauseI'm an anxious person, do you
have to be like an avoidantperson to have an avoidant
attachment style, or same withanxious or secure?
You know cause I think about Imean, I hope the relationship
(31:44):
with my fiance.
I literally say all the timethe reason we work so well is
like I don't have fear to justsay what I need or want or
whatnot, versus in otherrelationships I would have.
Do they have to be like whereyou're at, mentally as well?
Speaker 2 (32:00):
Absolutely so.
A lot of people, I mean, wouldlook at me and say, oh, she's
like confident, she'll ask forwhat she wants.
She can do it.
When it comes to asking forhelp, it's so hard for me to ask
for help because I am so afraidof being rejected.
When it comes to looking forvalidation or reassurance, I may
(32:21):
say a statement in hopes thatthe other person will validate
that statement, but I'm notgoing to directly ask them to
validate that statement, and soit can depend on the
relationship and it can dependon where we are.
But again, the relationshipslike, kind of like the
relationships bring outdifferent ways of how we attach
(32:45):
to other people.
Speaker 1 (32:47):
Yeah, so it's not so black and white just because,
like you're anxious, you'rehaving an anxious, it's having
style and they do have in flow.
You know I I don't get me wrongI am somebody who loves the
generator, the manifestor,attachment, styles and whatnot,
but I don't think it's acomplete science.
I mean, some people are superobsessed with their astrological
signs and I still think they'veall got some ebb and flow to
(33:09):
them.
So, going back to this idea ofstepping out and just maybe
making dating fun again, makedating fun again, woo.
What advice would you give tosomebody who'd be hesitant to
date for fun because they'rethey have the fear of getting
her or wasting their time?
Speaker 2 (33:30):
You're going to get hurt.
But the reframe of the timebeing wasted is that it's an
experience that you get to lookback on and say, wow, I got to
experience this person for thisamount of time.
And I imagine, depending on age, depending on life experience,
(33:52):
depending on where you are inyour life, you might be like on
where you are in your life, youmight be like no, I got things
to do, I got a person to be with, I have a life plan, and that
life plan will fuck us everytime If we put ourselves on
arbitrary timelines that reallydon't matter except for in our
heads, like we make thistimeline of how things should
(34:15):
look and when they're supposedto happen.
Speaker 1 (34:26):
Once we let that go, then we allow ourselves to be
flexible and to be open withdating and I don't want to say
it because I feel like it's acatch-22, but it's like usually,
when you finally surrender andgive it over, it usually works
out.
But I'm hesitant to say thatbecause people are like I've
surrendered, I've it over.
It usually works out, but I'mhesitant to say that because
people are like I've surrendered, I've given over, and if you
know them real well, you'll seeright through it.
But you truly, mentally,physically, spiritually, life
(34:48):
coached and blessed by yourmother, have to be there before
that actually happens.
You cannot fake it.
Speaker 2 (34:55):
You cannot be looking for sure, you can't like have
your binoculars out ready at atthe grocery store.
You're like I'm going to bumpinto him, like near the apples
or I'm going to yeah, I'm at the, I'm at the mall.
It's like no it'll.
It'll come to you when you'releast expecting it, and then
that's when you'll be sometimesthe most ready.
(35:17):
Maybe not, or you won't beready, but you're willing to
figure it out with that person.
Speaker 1 (35:22):
Yes, ah, gaz, you are so wonderful.
I love shooting the shit aboutdating, even though I have so
little experience to offer here.
You are so wonderful.
You need to tell everybodywhere they can find you.
Speaker 2 (35:36):
You can find me on Instagram Unilone Wellness LLC.
You can find me on threads.
I think that's pretty much.
I have a podcast All Our Parts.
Marley, I would love to returnthe favor and have you on.
I've enjoyed this conversationso much, oh my gosh.
Speaker 1 (35:54):
Thank you so much for being here.
Thank you so much for listeningto Confessions of a Wannabe it
Girl.
Don't forget to rate andsubscribe to the show.
As always, we'll see you nextTuesday.
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