August 12, 2025 • 51 mins
In this episode of the Confident Sober Women Podcast, host Shelby sits down with Emily Sayre Smith, author of "Smartass Memoir of a Mouthy Girl," for an honest conversation about hitting rock bottom and finding redemption through sobriety.
The Breaking Point That Changed Everything
Emily shares the moment that saved her life, sitting on her bedroom floor in West Hollywood at 42, with a gun in her mouth. What happened next was a spiritual awakening that would transform her entire existence: "If I don't kill myself, anything is possible." This realization led her to her first AA meeting.
Why Traditional Recovery Works (Even When You Fight It)
From classical ballerina to gym owner to construction manager to published author, Emily's career path has been anything but linear. But it's her 27-year sobriety journey that reveals the real transformation. She discusses:
- Fighting the concept of powerlessness as a "Type A, go-getter"
- Finding God in rooms full of other recovering addicts
- The slow burn of emotional growth and why "peeling the onion" takes decades
- Surviving major life upheavals sober, including divorce after 22 years
The Truth About Long-Term Sobriety
This isn't your typical "pink cloud" recovery story. Emily and Shelby dive deep into the reality that recovery work never truly ends. Even with decades of sobriety, life can still knock you down - but the tools you develop make all the difference.
Key takeaways from this episode:
- Why hitting your personal "bottom" is often necessary for lasting change
- How community and connection become lifelines in recovery
- The importance of continuing to tell your truth
- Why self-love isn't just a buzzword, it's the foundation of healthy relationships
Emily's recent divorce led to another suicidal crisis, but this time she chose treatment over alcohol. Her journey to self-discovery at 65 offers hope for anyone struggling with codependency and the need for external validation.
Resources Mentioned
- Emily's book: "Smartass Memoir of a Mouthy Girl" (available on Amazon and Barnes & Noble)
- Connect with Emily on Facebook: Emily Sayre-Smith
- AA meetings and 12-step programs
- The importance of therapy alongside recovery programs
Struggling with racing thoughts, anxiety, or feeling stuck in unhealthy patterns? Neurofeedback therapy can help rewire your brain for emotional regulation and mental clarity. Visit my website to learn mo
Support the show
Oh, and by the way, if you didn’t know, my remote Neurofeedback Therapy program is up and running. Learn more here!
If you aren't part of the Confident Sober Women Facebook group, it's a great place to be. There are over a thousand other sober women there building lives they don't want to escape from. Come on over and join us.
And if you haven't read my memoir, grab a copy today and maybe a second one for a friend. There is so much hope in recovery, and I shared my story so raw and vulnerable so that others would know they aren't alone and that there is a way to live well, manage relationships, parent your kids, and have a healthy body, all while staying sober. Grab a copy of Recovering in Recovery: The Life-Changing Joy of Sobriety wherever books are sold.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:09):
Hello and welcome to the Confident Sober Women
podcast.
I'm your guide, shelby John.
I'm the mother of three, wifeto one and sober since July 1st
2002.
As sober women, we havesomething huge in common, and
when we share our lives and ourstories with each other, we feel
that sense of belonging andconnection.
(00:30):
So we know we are no longeralone.
In this podcast you will hearreal life talk about building
confidence and transforming yourlife beyond recovery.
So come on, let's talk recovery.
So come on, let's talk.
Hey, it's me, shelby.
(00:50):
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change.
Well, hey there, emily, thankyou so much for joining me today
for the Confident Sober Womenpodcast.
(02:19):
I'm so excited to have you hereand share you with my audience.
So I'm going to turn the micover to you and let you share a
little bit more about your story, and then we're going to chat.
Speaker 2 (02:29):
Thank you very much for having me, shelby.
I appreciate it.
So you know, my, my story isnot unlike most people's stories
who, you know, tried to getsober or do get sober.
It's like I.
I grew up in a, you know, avery lovely family.
(02:50):
You know, my father was anEpiscopal priest.
My mother was, um, one of thesmartest people I ever met, but
they were both deeply troubledhuman beings and um, so life at
home was um kind of iffy.
I uh, I equate it to the movieordinary people, which was, you
know, it's nice.
(03:11):
It's nice, you know, um nicepeople, but the undercurrents is
dark, um, anyhow.
So suffice it to say I ran awayaway into the world of dance
and ballet, and that pretty muchprobably saved my life until it
(03:34):
didn't work anymore.
And you know, I was sitting onmy bedroom floor in my duplex
apartment in West Hollywood witha gun in my mouth.
I was 42 years old and I was,you know, I was miserable.
(03:56):
I had things, I had a good job,I had a lovely apartment, I had
a nice car, and I was miserable, absolutely miserable.
And you know, I pondered thatmoment, with the gun in my mouth
, of like, okay, click, I'm dead.
(04:19):
It won't be pretty.
There will be guts all over thewalls, et cetera.
They'll find me, probably in acouple of days.
That won't be pretty, there'llbe guts all over the walls, etc.
Um, they'll find me, andprobably in a couple of days.
That won't be pretty.
It might smell bad my poorsisters, all that kind of stuff.
And then I had what I think wasmy first spiritual experience,
(04:39):
which was but if I don't killmyself, but if I don't kill
myself, anything is possible.
I can't make a mistake, becauseif I kill myself I'm dead and
it's all over.
If I don't, how can anything Ido be worse than that?
(05:09):
So I got up and took my drugsto my next door neighbors and
said here I'm an addict, andpoured hours for the first AA
meeting that I knew of, whichwas literally around the corner.
(05:31):
And basically that's whatreally.
I mean I had been around AA alittle bit before.
I mean I had been around AA alittle bit before.
I mean I had known.
(05:53):
For you know, I remember theminute I spent like 16 years in
New York City when I was dancingand pursuing that dance career,
and I have a visceral memory ofstanding in my apartment while
I was cleaning house and going,oh, I'm a drug addict, addict.
It took me many years to admitthat I was also an alcoholic,
because I had a you know, theold man trench coat vision of
that and I was, you know, justdidn't relate to it Anyhow.
(06:15):
So, you know, I had, I hadtried to go to AA at one point,
but that was really about a girl.
I had tried to go to AA at onepoint, but that was really about
a girl.
I'm gay and you know I wasn'treally ready to get sober, but
she was sober and you knowanyhow.
So, but I wasn't, I wasn'tready.
(06:37):
So I think I've also been Rathersuicidal a lot of my life.
Life because and I think thatfits in with because I couldn't
stand the way I felt and I thinkthis is very much a common
(07:00):
feeling and alcoholics andaddicts is, and that's why we
drink and use, is because wecan't stand the way we feel, and
which is why drugs and alcoholare such a relief, um, because
they change the way you feelimmediately.
Um, so, anyhow, that started my, my path to a sobriety that
(07:28):
that really worked.
I'm sorry, were you going toask me a question?
No, ok.
So, and you know I think it wasalso the bottom that I needed
because I'm too arrogant andwillful and you know I'm a type
(07:49):
a.
You know I can do that.
Go get them self-made girl.
And um, you know the idea.
You know you go sit down in ana-a meeting and you look up at
the wall and you see the wordpowerless and it's like I'm not,
fucking sorry, I tend to swear,I'll try not to.
Um, I'm not powerless, I'm not,and you know.
(08:13):
And then there's god, and youknow my daddy was an episcopal
priest.
I grew up in church.
Um, I love the art, thearchitecture, the music, all of
that, but I didn't see a lot ofGod there, especially when my
father was beating my mother upand you know she was fending him
(08:33):
off with a knitting needle.
So, but because I had gone fromhere to an AA meeting, it's
kind of like you know peopletalk about it's the last house
on the block.
You know I had nowhere else togo.
You know it was that or killmyself.
(08:55):
So I sat there and it's alsowhy I have a real opinion about
it's important.
You know that there's coffeeand a cookie Because you know I
went to a meeting, meeting.
I got a cup of coffee and acookie and I could stand there
with my coffee and my cookie andfeel like I had something to do
(09:17):
and how to fit in anyhow.
So, um, so you know, I madefriends, I got people were nice
to me and I listened to thestories.
God, I love the stories.
I love, you know, I lovelistening to alcoholics talk
(09:42):
because I relate to otheralcoholics and the you know, the
car crashes and the you knowsome people have crazy stories
of you know guns and ending upin trees and other countries and
things like that.
That's not exactly me, but Ilove the stories.
So I just I sat and I listenedand I listened to other people
(10:06):
talk and and I learned, but itwas very slow for me, very slow
for me.
I get the feeling that youdon't want me to base this too
(10:36):
much around just AA.
Speaker 1 (10:37):
Right, well, that's the way you got sober.
So, yeah, I think that's reallypowerful and important, and
everybody, um, you know, like Igot sober just a little bit
after you my anniversary wasactually a couple of weeks ago
and so I, when I got sober in2002, there was nothing else
except for rehab and AI and 12step.
That's all we had, you know.
(10:57):
Now we have modern day recoverywith Quitlet and online spaces
and programs and all kinds ofstuff.
We have a lot, a wealth ofmaterials at our fingertips that
we just did not have like whenI got sober.
So, similar to you, I got soberin AA because that's that's
what we had.
Today there's a lot of otherways to do it, and so a lot of
(11:19):
times, what I say around here isI don't necessarily care how
you got sober if it works foryou, you know, um, it's just
that you know, living thatalcohol-free life and kind of
restoring yourself to sanity wasthe result.
So, um, yeah, okay.
Speaker 2 (11:36):
So, um, you know what , what I've learned in
Alcoholicsics, anonymous, whatI've learned through sobriety is
, um, you know, aha uses thestructure of the steps right.
And you know, powerless and youknow, find a higher power.
(11:57):
And you know, look at all yourpast mistakes and look at your
character and clean, clean it upand then help others.
That's my quick like onethrough 12.
And you know, I had a sponsorwhen I was 10 years sober who
basically said you know, thesteps are about cleaning out,
(12:18):
cleaning out what's between youand God and and I would
paraphrase that a little bit at,the steps, I think, are about
cleaning out what's between youand other people, you and
humanity.
Um, because we do, we carryaround a lot of old bad behavior
and shame and things that wecan, um, that we are ashamed of
(12:43):
and that we used to beatourselves up with.
And so, you know, I think Ispent the first 10 years trying
to clean up that and how Iwalked through the world to
(13:09):
having more of a spiritual lifeand understanding that that was
sort of the, the be-all andend-all to it.
It's, um, there's a book calledas bill sees it, and there's a
piece in there about that'scalled the keystone of the arch,
and the keystone of the arch isthat sort of um parallelogram.
Well, it's not a parallel grab.
Ok, my geometry is bad thatstone in the middle where the
(13:30):
whole arch comes up and rests onthat stone and you have to keep
the framing in there until thatlast piece is set in and then
the rest of the pieces will bearon that center piece and you
can take the framing away.
So that's what working thesteps has done for me.
(13:54):
You know, and it's like when Iwork with other people, you know
I talk about going through thesteps and that each one of them
is like putting a tool in yourtoolbox.
You know, it's like I'mpowerless over alcohol.
My life has become unmanageable.
It's like I am powerless overalcohol.
My life has become unmanageable.
It's like I am not a powerlessgirl, I am a kick-ass type A.
(14:16):
Show me the goal and I will getit done.
Aries, you know, go get her.
But the truth is there is anelement of powerlessness that is
really quite useful, especiallyto the alcoholic.
It's like you are power.
You're powerless overeverything.
You're powerless over whatother people do and say you're
(14:40):
powerless over traffic.
You're powerless over.
You know what's available inthe grocery store.
You're you know you'repowerless over whether the
Amazon man shows up or not.
You know it's like you arepowerless over absolutely
everything.
So it's basically how you, youknow, react and respond and
(15:00):
swing with the punches that lifecan bring right.
I came to find a spiritual life,a higher power, whatever you
want to call it, in the rooms ofAlcoholics Anonymous.
You know, growing up in church,it's like the whole dude on the
(15:24):
cloud and Jesus on the crossand all of that.
It's like it just didn't hitpay dirt with me.
But, sitting in a room full ofother people like myself, where
everyone had a common goal andeveryone's talking and sharing
their sort of innermost thoughtsand feelings and secrets, um,
(15:48):
there was a camaraderie, acommunion, if you will.
You know that happens there andit's something I felt.
I powerfully, powerfully felt,um, you know it's, it's the,
it's the connection I think thatwe lack sometimes as alcoholics
, and um, that's what I lackedand that's what's been, um, very
(16:15):
much key to me.
Um, because you know I hate tosay this but it's true, it's
like I hated myself.
I really, you know, I had donethings, I had a lot of
achievements in my life, but Idon't think I really liked
(16:40):
myself.
Um, you know, I don't.
You know, I was very defensiveand very hostile and very, um
and aa sort of helped temper meand make me part of, just make
me part of the group.
I didn't have to be in charge,I didn't have to to, you know,
(17:02):
run the show.
Um yeah, it gave me community,which I think is a lot of what's
lacking in the world these days.
Speaker 1 (17:15):
Um, yeah, so thank you so much for sharing all that
.
I really appreciate that, andum, so vulnerably.
You know that's really how allof this works is when we learn
how to recover out loud wereally do become helpful and
(17:39):
create opportunities for otherpeople who are still out there
seeking ways to rebuild theirsanity through sobriety.
So I really appreciate that andit's a powerful story.
I really appreciate thedesperation that you shared that
story about kind of holding thegun and being suicidal.
(17:59):
I mean that just speaks, Ithink, to what all of us can
relate to.
Whether you've sat in a millionAA meetings or not, or you've
been around, I'm pretty sure youcan probably relate to that
level of desperation whereyou're just, you know, at the
end and I hear people say a lotyou know I didn't want to die,
(18:21):
but I didn't want to live either, and so like that's I think
that jumping off place for mostof us and what gets us to the
places where hopefully we can,we can learn to get sober.
So that I think relating tothat feeling is it's always
really powerful for me when Ihear that part of people's
stories.
You know cause I definitely um,I was a depressive drunk as
(18:41):
well two suicide attempts andit's definitely a horrible
thought and feeling to now being20, whatever years out now and
to think back that that's theway I was thinking about myself
or feeling is.
It's so sad, it just hurts myheart.
You know, my life is like amillion times different,
probably like yours.
You know I have three youngadult children.
Speaker 2 (19:04):
But I really needed that.
That's what I say about abottom.
I really needed that to beteachable to be desperate enough
to be willing to say, okay, Iknow nothing.
I don't, I don't know anything,everything I'm doing doesn't
work, so I'll just sit here, bequiet, try to learn and try to
(19:28):
do it a different way.
Yeah, yeah.
Speaker 1 (19:30):
Yeah, that's what it takes.
So most of the time when I talkto people, um, and my
experience working with lots ofother um individuals who have
done, done what we have done youknow they they share a common
experience around, kind of afterwe get and stay sober for a
while, for like a year or more,and then that like one to five
year range, there's really thiskind of awakening that starts to
(19:54):
happen.
You know, we, the fog is likereally lifted, there's clarity.
You know, obviously we're assober as we're ever going to get
at that time.
But we're also starting to seelike, wow, I have opportunities
now that weren't available to mewhen I was in active addiction,
or maybe I would like to, youknow, start a business or have a
(20:17):
baby or leave my partner or youknow whatever, start a drawing
class, I don't know.
You know there's things thatjust come up.
We start to realize like, ohokay, I can do certain things
and I'm just, I was just curiousif you can relate to that, Like
if you had that and kind ofwhat that was like for you.
Speaker 2 (20:36):
You know, I think in in I had already done so much,
you know, in terms of theachievement level.
It's like I've been a classicalballerina.
You know I'd had a career there.
Then I went into the fitnessindustry.
I owned a gym in New York for12 years.
You know that was a big deal.
(20:58):
Then I worked for anothercompany in the fitness industry
and they transferred me to LosAngeles to open their, their you
know sort of flagship on theWest coast.
Then I ditched all of that andwent into the construction
industry.
I know, but classical ballerinato construction manager, it's an
(21:20):
odd path but it makes sense ifyou hear the whole story.
You know, and and so I thinkyou know I'd always been able to
do things.
But it was really theinterpersonal skills that were
(21:46):
the growing part for me and theemotional regulation that was
the growing part for me.
And the emotional regulationthat was the growing part for me
.
The I mean hell.
I just I just wrote a book.
You know it's like I've been adancer, a gym owner, a
construction manager and now I'man author.
(22:06):
Know, it's like, and sobrietyhas brought me to this place of
and I don't think with ego, butjust with put one foot in front
of the other and um, try, youknow, see if you can do it.
Um, go to friends, get help.
(22:27):
What do you think here?
Read my book, do you hate it?
So I don't know that I'veanswered your question, but and
also my sobriety was slow.
You know, I'm 27 years sober,and it's taken a village and
(22:48):
Growing for me has been slow, atleast the important parts, the
emotional parts.
Speaker 1 (22:57):
When you said that the first time, I really related
to that too, because I feellike that was my story too.
I was not somebody who came tothe rooms thinking like, oh, I
think I should get sober or Ihave a problem with alcohol.
That's not my story.
I was definitely like, not atall interested in doing that or
(23:20):
thought that any of that was the.
I knew I was crazy and that Ihad a lot of problems, but I
didn't think alcohol hadanything to do with it, and so
personally just didn't thinkthat that was the solution.
But that's where I landed and Ifollowed directions because I
was too scared not to and I wason the verge of losing a whole
bunch of stuff, and so I kind ofwas in that space for a long
(23:42):
time.
I remember sitting in thoserooms thinking like, oh, I don't
belong here.
This is ridiculous.
I was in rehab and I never evenunpacked my bag, cause I was
like, oh, they're going to comepick me up.
I don't know that.
You know this is they made amistake, but that's not usually
what happens when people end upin rehab, like, usually normal
drinkers don't end up in rehab.
So that's not what happened forme, and so, for like 18 months,
(24:04):
though, I was like still doingthat, I was still like I did the
things because I was too scarednot to, but I was like I don't
really know.
This is my story.
Speaker 2 (24:13):
You know, you were still seeing the differences.
Speaker 1 (24:15):
I was like I don't, my story is really that bad.
I didn't really have all thatstuff going on, and so it was a
very slow burn for me too.
And I only bring that up and Idon't mean to take up your time
because I want to hear more fromyou but sometimes I share, like
I remember sharing at my so Igot sober and then six months
(24:36):
later I got pregnant and I hadthree kids in four years.
So it was like a very, verychaotic experience.
It was one that I chose.
I loved it, I was like veryexciting, but then I had to do
things kind of backwards becauseby year four I was like having
like a sober bottom, you know,cause I really I'd done the work
but I hadn't done all the.
You know I had to restart.
So by year 10, I was like in themidst of this big, huge life
with all of the stuff and like Iremember celebrating at my
(24:59):
anniversary and I was reallypissed off, like I was mad
because I felt like I shouldhave been further along.
Why am I still having to dothis crap?
It's been 10 years.
This is ridiculous and I likethat's how I was talking, you
know, and I think that I thinkabout that so often and how
hilarious it is, cause I'm justlike what is wrong with you?
(25:19):
But like I mean, I was gratefulfor my life.
I knew that I had a blessing, Iknew all of that, but I felt
like I should have arrived more,you know, I don't know, I felt
like it should have just beeneasier or I could have handled
things better.
I don't know what I thought,but it clearly wasn't well or
all the way.
But it was just a reminder ofme of, like, how slow things are
(25:40):
those ten years.
Sober right, I'm still cleaning, they call it feeling the onion
yeah, and.
Speaker 2 (25:46):
I think it's such a good analogy because you know
it's layers on layers on layers.
I mean, you know, when I was,when I was a year sober, you
know it's like I started to datewe very quickly, you know, got,
you know, serious and moved intogether.
(26:08):
You know, within six months, webought a house together, you
know, renovated that house.
Three years later, sold it,bought another one, renovated
that house.
I changed careers into theconstruction industry.
You know it's like, um, youknow I had this.
I went from being a year soberto having this huge life right.
(26:33):
And you know, the second housewas a house in the Hollywood
Hills.
And you know I'm working inconstruction management and you
know, with the company car andthe six figure salary and all of
that stuff company car and thesix-figure salary and all of
(26:54):
that stuff and um, and yet, at10 years and people talk about
this, it's like at 10 years, oh,this is, this is the good part
um, you know I got, I got firedfrom my big job and they took
away my phone and my company carand my laptop and everything
and sent me home with a banker'sbox, you know, and fired into
the Great Recession of 2018.
(27:15):
And you know, I called mysponsor and, you know, told him
my sad story and he said go to ameeting.
And I literally took the phoneand shoved it against my butt
and screamed fuck you.
You know it's like what doesthat have to do with what just
happened to me?
It had everything to do withwhat just happened to me,
(27:35):
because I needed to go back andreally focus on my sobriety and
and me growing as a person,rather than focusing on all of
the outside things of you know,the job and the house and and
the relationship and and all ofthose things.
(27:57):
Um, I had to set my priorityand my priority really was, you
know, first and foremost, tostay sober and work on that and
my sober life and my spirituallife.
So, um, yeah, there's, there'sa lot that onion still peels,
you know, and and I'll theunless you want me to be quiet
(28:19):
the the tail end of that isafter 22 years, at the end of
the pandemic, she said I want adivorce, bye, see you later.
And I had.
I mean, I was stunned from outof nowhere, right, and what's
interesting was I didn't thinkabout drinking.
(28:40):
All I could think about waskilling myself because, once
again.
I needed to make those feelingsstop.
I couldn't stand the way I feltand you know I was sober long
enough that it kind of bogglesme that I didn't think about
drinking but I 51, 50 myself.
I put myself in the nuthouseBecause I needed to.
(29:04):
I needed to look at that andhow I had gotten there, and also
I needed to go and get someoutside help because you know a
lot of us do need outside helpto look at, you know, causes and
conditions and the underlyingissues.
Speaker 1 (29:20):
So, yeah, a million percent.
I mean that then that'ssomething that I talk about
constantly, like here on the onthe show.
And then also I'm a mentalhealth therapist.
I work with people, you know,kind of every day, um, and
mostly people who are inrecovery or around recovery,
because you really can't get,you can't get away from
addiction, like everybody hassomething.
(29:40):
So many of the people that Iwork with are, you know, either
were raised by one or are livingwith one or are raising one, um
, and so that's something thatwe talk about quite a bit is
just, we don't ever reallyarrive, you know, like the work
never, the growth in the worknever really ends, and I'm
(30:00):
really grateful for that.
Today, like today, I can reallysee like, oh wow, I'm super
grateful for that Cause I don'twant to just like be stunted
ever.
But you know there are periodsof time that come up when we are
just, you know, hit and punchedin the face with life.
That's really, really painfuland I mean I went through that
during the pandemic.
(30:21):
We had three teenagers we hadwho were in total, one of which
was in total crisis than thesecond one.
I mean we were, it was, welived in crisis for like four
years, sustained trauma, and itwas a very, very difficult time.
I mean, I talk about it a lotLike we, we had to make some
decisions that I just were someof the hardest things I've ever
done in my whole life and and itdoesn't it doesn't make any of
(30:42):
that stuff easier, but sobrietycertainly does make things
easier.
You know, it's a lot easier toshow up and do those kinds of
things when you aren't under theinfluence of drugs and alcohol
or whatever else you might beusing to numb out, and I just
think that that you know.
It's wonderful to be at thisplace now where I know for
certain 100 million percent thatlike this is the easier, softer
(31:04):
way Absolutely Doesn't meanthat like we're not going to
look for easier ways sometimesLike of course we are.
That's the human experience isto look for the way out, you
know, and my natural way is tolook for a way out to escape.
Speaker 2 (31:22):
It made me dig deeper .
You know it's like this, thisyou know this was absolutely a
crisis in my life of you know,this was absolutely a crisis in
my life of, you know, gettingdivorced.
And you know, it made me digdeeper.
It made me go to therapy andfinally find a therapist who,
you know, wasn't that I couldn'tfascinate and who was no
(31:43):
bullshit, and you know, and thenI was like, oh, I'm drawn to
crazy people because that's whatI grew up with.
It feels like home.
And then this, this led me towriting this book, which was an
absolute accident.
I literally was looking forsomething to do rather than
(32:04):
clean house, and I started, youknow, because I'm Irish, I'm a
big storyteller.
And I started, you know,because I'm a I'm Irish, I'm a
big storyteller.
So, but really I wrote itbecause I needed to understand.
You know, how did I get here?
So I I kind of wrote it all,wrote it all down, and in the
midst of writing it all down, Iwas telling all those stories
that I've been telling for years.
(32:25):
But I needed to, I needed tounderstand it, who, who I was
and how I was, and that's turnedinto me publishing a book.
So you know, you don't knowwhere life is going to take you,
and it's an absolute adventure,you know, and none of this
would have happened without megetting and being sober and
(32:47):
being willing to look at thesethings and wanting to look at
these things.
Speaker 1 (32:52):
Yeah, totally agree with that.
And and I do think that age is awonderful thing in this way too
, like as we age my experienceanyway, and many of my, my peers
I know we, we are more wise,you know we are different, you
know we have more lifeexperiences, we have more of
those opportunities toexperience the horribleness of
(33:14):
life under our belt right.
So we've kind of built thatperseverance muscle over a long
period of time versus, like youknow, my 20 year old kids who
are just kind of at thebeginning of that, not that they
haven't had their own pain, butthey haven't had as much, so
they don't have as muchexperience to know that like, oh
wow, I actually can handlethings that are really hard.
(33:35):
And oh, by the way, I'm alsonot going to die or implode or
any of that if my feelings arehurt, you know, or if I have
experiencing discomfort, because, by the way, most of life is
pretty uncomfortable.
And so I know, now almosttomorrow's my birthday, actually
50, I'll be 50.
And, like now I know, like Idon't, I'm really pretty
(33:57):
unbothered by most things inlife, because that's the level
of peace and contentment I havetoday, because most things won't
compare at all to some of thelevel of pain I've had you know,
most things will not even comeclose, and so that's my gauge.
I'm sure you probably feel thesame, like.
So unless and until somethingelse hits the top of those
things that have been the veryworst things in my life, they
(34:20):
just like really aren't thatimportant.
Speaker 2 (34:22):
And one of the things I've also learned is that you
know, everything's always workedout, even during my, you know,
drunken, debauched days.
It's like I've always beentaking I mean, I did the work
Right, I showed up at the shittywaitressing jobs and stuff like
that but it's like I've alwaysbeen taken care of, Things have
(34:44):
always worked out and it's it'svery.
I don't live in fear anymoreand it's it's very I don't live
in fear anymore.
I live with an enormous amountof faith, even in the crazy
world we live in now, where, youknow, it feels like
everything's going to hell in ahandbasket.
I'm alluding to politics,without trying to talk about
(35:14):
politics, but it's like you knowit, it doesn't scare me, it's
it's you know right, it's goingto work out, I will, and plus,
I'm ancient, so it's like Idon't care what anybody thinks
of me, you know so and those arethe blessings that I'm
referring to.
Speaker 1 (35:22):
I mean, like I feel like we just get to be
completely different and reallycontent in our own skin.
You know, at this age I justfeel like wow, like I say all
the time and I remember saying,even when I was a little younger
and earlier sobriety, when Iwas thinking, like man, I wish I
could give all of this to likemy kids, like I want my girls to
never have to like have all ofthose years of like worrying
(35:44):
about what everybody thinks andlike comparing, but like you
can't like take it away fromthem.
But I wish I could you know,because knowing what we know now
, it's like wow, you get to thatother part and you're just, you
know you do have a shift inpriorities and a shift in focus
and and really the ability to beable to, to, to discern at any
given moment, like you know, howimportant is this?
(36:08):
What is my experience with thisfrom the past?
Like how do I know you know howto handle this?
I mean, like we can, we haveskills today, you know, and then
we can also always go back tobasics.
I've had the pleasure, I say,but it's also been very, very
painful in some waysprofessionally working with two
people who are in recovery, onefor about a year probably now
(36:33):
and very just, chronic relapseor constant, constant, constant,
constant.
I mean like a little bit olderthan me, my age, kids, similar
ages, and just you know,destroyed his life, you know
still at his family, kind ofsomehow.
But just watching this man likeconstantly not get, it has been
just so, I don't know, one ofmy most big, one of my biggest
(36:55):
challenges as a therapist, right, because I know what I know,
obviously he knows I'm inrecovery.
I self-disclose that all thetime we talk about that, but
like I just kind of want to belike dude, what are you doing?
But I also know that likenothing I do, I can't make
anybody do anything or not doanything, and so I mean so the
pain of just kind of watchinghim and waiting until it was
(37:17):
time, and I think we might, wemight be there, which is very
interesting.
And so now it's been a fewmonths, like a few months, and
we were talking, last week Iguess, about a situation and he
presented the situation and hewas like, okay, this is what's
happening.
And he's like, oh, it's thefirst time I've had like real
cravings, like I was really likeI was feeling, I was like I was
(37:39):
getting ready to get in the car, you know, and I was like okay,
so I mean that's normal.
And so then I said well, whatdid you do?
And so he's telling me.
He's like oh, you know, I I did, I started focusing on my
breathing.
I, you know, did.
He gave me like four or fivethings and I said, oh, um, they
(37:59):
were great, they were greatthings.
And I said, well, well, did youcall your sponsor?
And he's like, well, I did, Ifinally like he finally did you
know?
But then he didn't like shareall of the things.
Like he just called like anormal, like I'm calling you
normally, oh yeah, cool.
Like, tell me about that.
Like, why didn't?
Why didn't you feel like it wasappropriate, you know, and it
(38:22):
was.
It was very interesting to talkabout that.
So we talked that out and like,and I basically said, you know
like, hey, like, why don't wethis is all great, like such
great stuff, super good tools.
But like, why don't we movethat situation, that that
program up to the top?
Like the next time whensomething's going on and you're
having that, like, let's moveyour program first.
Know, like, how about we justpick up that phone first?
(38:44):
You know like, wouldn't that belike so much more amazing?
Speaker 2 (38:46):
because then you're like on the phone with somebody
and I'm not saying you gotta sayall the things, but you're
talking it out and oh no,suddenly now you feel better say
oh, you know, when I was firstaround alcoholics anonymous, I
said you know, I don't know whyaa works, but it has something
to do with the chemical reactionbetween my ass and a metal
(39:10):
chair, because I don't want togo.
And then I go there right, andI walk out and I feel better.
Speaker 1 (39:16):
Right, I tell you.
Speaker 2 (39:17):
You know it's like, and it's also why I like to say
time doesn't matter, you know.
Know, I don't care if you're 40years sober.
You, I've seen a lot of peoplewith a lot of time that are
assholes and jerks or whatever.
But what time has given me wasit's like when this thing
happened and I got out of thenut house and I went to a
(39:39):
meeting.
I just, you know, it's like Idon't about you, but I am
fighting for my life.
I am fighting for my littlealcoholic life because at my
baseline I will do drugs and getdrunk and that's my favorite
way to deal with stuff.
Not anymore, really.
But what I do now is I go to ameeting or if I'm talking to
(40:01):
somebody, I tell them the truth.
I throw my guts on the floor,you know, and it's like here I,
you know, because I was 23 yearssober at the time.
I'm like here, I'm 23 yearssober and I just
institutionalized myself becauseyou know my wife doesn't love
me anymore, boo.
But you know, because, becauseI think that's that's what it's
(40:25):
all about.
It's all it's like.
Why go to therapy if you're notgoing to tell your therapist all
the truth?
It's like you don't hear it.
They don't hear it.
How are they supposed to helpyou?
So you know, I love, I lovedoing this.
It's like what's the greatOscar Wilde quote Be yourself.
(40:50):
Everybody else is already taken.
It's like I'm going to be me.
I'm going to be Emily and throwmy guts on the floor, tell you
the truth, and we're as sick asour secrets and all of that.
Speaker 1 (41:04):
Yeah, I agree.
I always say all the timetherapy only works if you the
truth.
And we're as sick as oursecrets and all of that.
Yeah, I agree, I always say allthe time, like you know,
therapy only works if you'rehonest.
And I told a lot of lies to alot of therapists before I got
here and so when I landed in thehospital, my husband called
that therapist and said my wifejust tried to kill herself.
I think she was like, like what?
Because she didn't know thewhole truth, which is such a
(41:24):
shame.
But it is what we do, you know.
What we think is, you know,going to keep us well or
whatever.
You know, I had issues withtrying with being well, because
I felt being well meant I wasgoing to be fat, you know.
And so, like, I have a lot ofthat kind of stuff to work
through and that's why we layerit on right, we can do AA or
(41:44):
some other recovery program ofyour choice, and then you can
start reading Quitlet, you canstart doing meditation and yoga
and workout and nutrition andtherapy and like, start layering
on all of the other amazingtools that we have in this life
that can help us be well.
You know, there isn't just oneway.
There isn't just one way.
The way is whatever's going tomake you um.
(42:07):
Well, you know um, and you'reso right.
You know there's a lot ofpeople.
My first sponsor told me tocarry a big book around with me
all the time.
It keeps the crazies away,because there was a lot of
people in aa um who come to a alot but are not well, um and
well, think about where you are.
Speaker 2 (42:27):
This is not, aren't we fabulous?
Anonymous.
This is alcoholics anonymous.
You're in a room full ofalcoholics and drug addicts who
are, like you know, in varyingstages of being, you know,
messed up, right.
So don't worry about whatthey're doing, worry about what.
What you're doing.
You know, tell your truth,share your truth.
(42:48):
You know, if somebody sayssomething meaningful to you,
listen, internalize, take it in.
But you know you can't do itjust up here.
You know it's not about beingable to quote the book, it's
about getting into your heartand your guts and your soul,
because otherwise it's, it'sgonna break down, you're gonna
(43:10):
be in that scary place somedayand you have no defense against
the first drink.
Speaker 1 (43:15):
So you know, I feel like for me anyway, not about
your experience, but it's been areally, really long time since
I've thought about taking adrink or a drug, Like I was
relieved of that from from very,very early on.
Thank God I was relieved ofthat obsession and compulsion
early on.
So that is that for a very longtime two decades that has not
been the center of my problem,Right, and so for me, I've
(43:39):
become keenly aware of the factthat I'm not going to take a
drink or a drug.
I'm just almost certainly not.
But there's a whole bunch ofother crap that I will probably
do that could be hurtful to meor you, and so that is.
That is where my priority lies.
That is why I do the things.
That is why I wake up in themorning and do the same things
(44:00):
every single day, and then I goto bed and I do the same things
every single day, and then I,you know, I take care of myself
and I, you know, I try to liveby, you know, a lot of the 10th
step and the 12 and 12.
I mean, there's just thingsthat I do in my life because I
don't want to be an ass, right?
Speaker 2 (44:15):
Or recognizing that you're trying to change the way
you feel.
Right, it's like you know, asays hungry, angry, lonely,
tired.
Right?
Am I hungry?
Am I pissed off?
And I talk to somebody, am Iangry?
Am I tired?
It's like have I done anyexercise?
Do I need food?
Do I just need to?
You know, relate to anotherhuman being, you know.
(44:36):
Do I need to go to yoga class?
Do I need to meditate?
There's a lot of tools, youknow.
Speaker 1 (44:42):
There sure are.
And also, I think one of thegreatest things that I've, that
I've really learned and kind ofbeen marinating in in a very
kind of general way, andspecifically sometimes over the
last, I would say, five to 10years, but even more so recently
is just, you know, that I likeletting go of any kind of
concept of reliance on anyoneelse to make you happy is got to
(45:06):
be squash right.
So like if I'm constantlythinking like, oh, if you did
this, or if, oh, you just didthat, or whatever that's going
to make me content and peacefuland happy, that's a victim
mentality.
And so, whether it's like thechaos of the world you alluded
to it earlier whether it's thischaos and craziness that we view
and we don't agree and blah,blah, blah and you know,
(45:27):
everyone's entitled to havetheir own opinions about things
and beliefs about stuff.
That's the beautiful thingabout being human.
We all get to do that.
But what we don't get to do islike make it other people's
problem or a job to make us feelpeaceful and content.
And so today the release ofthat has been, I would say,
probably the greatest blessing.
(45:49):
It's how I've stayed marriedfor I don't know how many long,
long time, many decades, becauseof a lot of acceptance around
that, like I have, no longer.
Speaker 2 (45:58):
It's been the greatest revelation of my life.
In the past I'd say year, yeah,just.
And part of that is by notbeing in a relationship I mean
in true lesbian fashion, serialmonogamy, from relationship to
relationship to relationship.
You know looking for love, but.
But the problem is, is that youknow, it's like, now that I've
(46:22):
you know, let myself stay singleand focused on me.
It's like you know it's likenow that I've you know, let
myself stay single and focusedon me.
It's like you know the wholeconcept of like self love.
What the fuck is that?
Well, you know what it is.
What it is is the key.
You know it's like I'vediscovered me.
I'm a very good person, I'msmart, I'm kind, you know.
(46:44):
It's like I'm having a loveaffair with me for the first
time in my life.
And now I won't be going into.
You know, if I meet somebody orget into a relationship, I
won't be looking for somethingfrom that other person.
Right, you know, it's like Ihave it inside myself.
You know, it's like I don'tknow if I'm saying that very
(47:07):
well you are.
Speaker 1 (47:08):
Yeah, I think this has been a topic of conversation
in my family too, because mygirls are 21 and 20 and my son
is 17.
But they're in college and theydon't really date that much
because they don't seem superinterested but they have a
little bit.
They don't seem superinterested, but they have a
little bit.
But one of the things I talk tothem about a lot and I talk
about in my work with women inmy room, is we're not looking
(47:30):
for the other half, we're notlooking for complete me, we're
not looking for the other half.
It's none of that.
We're looking for compliments.
We're looking for comealongside, who can we do life
with, who aligns mostly with us,that we can tolerate and be
relatively happy with that wecan have a life with that
(47:53):
doesn't have anything to do withcompleting you.
We want them to compliment us.
Yes, and there's no need, andI've really said that.
I've said that several times,to one in particular, and I've
said we're not looking for aproject, you know, we're not
looking for potential, we'relooking for partnership and it's
hard to understand what that is.
(48:13):
It's hard to know what that iswhen you're 20.
But I feel like at least usingthat kind of language now might
be helpful, because the realityof relationships, as you know,
is that it's really actually notthat fun most of the time.
I mean you, it's, it's sort oflove, we love each other, but
that's actually not it.
It's really just a lot oftolerance and acceptance and,
(48:34):
yes, we have fun, yes, there'slove, but it's a lot of
uncomfortableness.
And who can sit with you whileyour mom is dying at the
hospital?
You know who's going gonna showup while your kid, you know, is
being diagnosed with a terminalillness.
I mean, like, can these peopledo that?
Can this person do that?
Yes or no?
Because that's what life is.
It's not all like rainbows andsunshine and like we have a hot
(48:56):
sex all the time and it'sbeautiful, and no, it's actually
just not.
And I think that illusion has tobe squashed.
You know this sort of offantasy tale that I think
society created and has allowedto like, I don't know, blow up
for years.
But I'm here to squash it.
I'm just kidding, anyway.
(49:17):
Well, listen, it's been greatchatting with you.
I wish we could keep talking.
I'm sure we would have so manymore areas to go, but why don't
you tell people where they canfind you if they want to reach
out or get your book?
How do you like to connect?
Speaker 2 (49:31):
Well, let's see, my name is Emily Stairsmith and
it'sE-M-I-L-Y-S-A-Y-R-E-S-M-I-T-H.
I wrote a book.
It's called Smartass Memoir ofa Mouthy Girl.
You can buy it on Amazon or atBarnes and Noble or things like
(49:57):
that, and I have an author'spage on Facebook and I have a
web page, which is really verypathetic because I haven't done
the work on it yet.
So I think, if you, if you wantto find me um Facebook and um
smart ass memoir of a mouthygirl is probably they're
probably the best ways to findme and get ahold of me.
Speaker 1 (50:21):
Okay, I'll make sure I link to all that stuff below
in the show notes, thank you,thank you again so much for
joining me.
It's been a super funconversation, um, and I hope you
have a fantastic day.
Speaker 2 (50:30):
Thank you, thank you for having me.
Thank you very much.
Speaker 1 (50:38):
Thank you for joining me for this week's episode of
confident, sober women.
If you enjoyed thisconversation, hit the subscribe
button above so you won't missany upcoming episodes.
And hey, if you really loved it, leave me a review.
You can learn more about theSober Freedom Inner Circle
membership atwwwshelbyjohncoachingcom.
(50:59):
Forward slash inner circle.
See you next time.
Hello and welcome to the Confident Sober Women
podcast.
I'm your guide, shelby John.
I'm the mother of three, wifeto one and sober since July 1st
2002.
As sober women, we havesomething huge in common, and
when we share our lives and ourstories with each other, we feel
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Well, hey there, emily, thankyou so much for joining me today
for the Confident Sober Womenpodcast.
(02:19):
I'm so excited to have you hereand share you with my audience.
So I'm going to turn the micover to you and let you share a
little bit more about your story, and then we're going to chat.
Speaker 2 (02:29):
Thank you very much for having me, shelby.
I appreciate it.
So you know, my, my story isnot unlike most people's stories
who, you know, tried to getsober or do get sober.
It's like I.
I grew up in a, you know, avery lovely family.
(02:50):
You know, my father was anEpiscopal priest.
My mother was, um, one of thesmartest people I ever met, but
they were both deeply troubledhuman beings and um, so life at
home was um kind of iffy.
I uh, I equate it to the movieordinary people, which was, you
know, it's nice.
(03:11):
It's nice, you know, um nicepeople, but the undercurrents is
dark, um, anyhow.
So suffice it to say I ran awayaway into the world of dance
and ballet, and that pretty muchprobably saved my life until it
(03:34):
didn't work anymore.
And you know, I was sitting onmy bedroom floor in my duplex
apartment in West Hollywood witha gun in my mouth.
I was 42 years old and I was,you know, I was miserable.
(03:56):
I had things, I had a good job,I had a lovely apartment, I had
a nice car, and I was miserable, absolutely miserable.
And you know, I pondered thatmoment, with the gun in my mouth
, of like, okay, click, I'm dead.
(04:19):
It won't be pretty.
There will be guts all over thewalls, et cetera.
They'll find me, probably in acouple of days.
That won't be pretty, there'llbe guts all over the walls, etc.
Um, they'll find me, andprobably in a couple of days.
That won't be pretty.
It might smell bad my poorsisters, all that kind of stuff.
And then I had what I think wasmy first spiritual experience,
(04:39):
which was but if I don't killmyself, but if I don't kill
myself, anything is possible.
I can't make a mistake, becauseif I kill myself I'm dead and
it's all over.
If I don't, how can anything Ido be worse than that?
(05:09):
So I got up and took my drugsto my next door neighbors and
said here I'm an addict, andpoured hours for the first AA
meeting that I knew of, whichwas literally around the corner.
(05:31):
And basically that's whatreally.
I mean I had been around AA alittle bit before.
I mean I had been around AA alittle bit before.
I mean I had known.
(05:53):
For you know, I remember theminute I spent like 16 years in
New York City when I was dancingand pursuing that dance career,
and I have a visceral memory ofstanding in my apartment while
I was cleaning house and going,oh, I'm a drug addict, addict.
It took me many years to admitthat I was also an alcoholic,
because I had a you know, theold man trench coat vision of
that and I was, you know, justdidn't relate to it Anyhow.
(06:15):
So, you know, I had, I hadtried to go to AA at one point,
but that was really about a girl.
I had tried to go to AA at onepoint, but that was really about
a girl.
I'm gay and you know I wasn'treally ready to get sober, but
she was sober and you knowanyhow.
So, but I wasn't, I wasn'tready.
(06:37):
So I think I've also been Rathersuicidal a lot of my life.
Life because and I think thatfits in with because I couldn't
stand the way I felt and I thinkthis is very much a common
(07:00):
feeling and alcoholics andaddicts is, and that's why we
drink and use, is because wecan't stand the way we feel, and
which is why drugs and alcoholare such a relief, um, because
they change the way you feelimmediately.
Um, so, anyhow, that started my, my path to a sobriety that
(07:28):
that really worked.
I'm sorry, were you going toask me a question?
No, ok.
So, and you know I think it wasalso the bottom that I needed
because I'm too arrogant andwillful and you know I'm a type
(07:49):
a.
You know I can do that.
Go get them self-made girl.
And um, you know the idea.
You know you go sit down in ana-a meeting and you look up at
the wall and you see the wordpowerless and it's like I'm not,
fucking sorry, I tend to swear,I'll try not to.
Um, I'm not powerless, I'm not,and you know.
(08:13):
And then there's god, and youknow my daddy was an episcopal
priest.
I grew up in church.
Um, I love the art, thearchitecture, the music, all of
that, but I didn't see a lot ofGod there, especially when my
father was beating my mother upand you know she was fending him
(08:33):
off with a knitting needle.
So, but because I had gone fromhere to an AA meeting, it's
kind of like you know peopletalk about it's the last house
on the block.
You know I had nowhere else togo.
You know it was that or killmyself.
(08:55):
So I sat there and it's alsowhy I have a real opinion about
it's important.
You know that there's coffeeand a cookie Because you know I
went to a meeting, meeting.
I got a cup of coffee and acookie and I could stand there
with my coffee and my cookie andfeel like I had something to do
(09:17):
and how to fit in anyhow.
So, um, so you know, I madefriends, I got people were nice
to me and I listened to thestories.
God, I love the stories.
I love, you know, I lovelistening to alcoholics talk
(09:42):
because I relate to otheralcoholics and the you know, the
car crashes and the you knowsome people have crazy stories
of you know guns and ending upin trees and other countries and
things like that.
That's not exactly me, but Ilove the stories.
So I just I sat and I listenedand I listened to other people
(10:06):
talk and and I learned, but itwas very slow for me, very slow
for me.
I get the feeling that youdon't want me to base this too
(10:36):
much around just AA.
Speaker 1 (10:37):
Right, well, that's the way you got sober.
So, yeah, I think that's reallypowerful and important, and
everybody, um, you know, like Igot sober just a little bit
after you my anniversary wasactually a couple of weeks ago
and so I, when I got sober in2002, there was nothing else
except for rehab and AI and 12step.
That's all we had, you know.
(10:57):
Now we have modern day recoverywith Quitlet and online spaces
and programs and all kinds ofstuff.
We have a lot, a wealth ofmaterials at our fingertips that
we just did not have like whenI got sober.
So, similar to you, I got soberin AA because that's that's
what we had.
Today there's a lot of otherways to do it, and so a lot of
(11:19):
times, what I say around here isI don't necessarily care how
you got sober if it works foryou, you know, um, it's just
that you know, living thatalcohol-free life and kind of
restoring yourself to sanity wasthe result.
So, um, yeah, okay.
Speaker 2 (11:36):
So, um, you know what , what I've learned in
Alcoholicsics, anonymous, whatI've learned through sobriety is
, um, you know, aha uses thestructure of the steps right.
And you know, powerless and youknow, find a higher power.
(11:57):
And you know, look at all yourpast mistakes and look at your
character and clean, clean it upand then help others.
That's my quick like onethrough 12.
And you know, I had a sponsorwhen I was 10 years sober who
basically said you know, thesteps are about cleaning out,
(12:18):
cleaning out what's between youand God and and I would
paraphrase that a little bit at,the steps, I think, are about
cleaning out what's between youand other people, you and
humanity.
Um, because we do, we carryaround a lot of old bad behavior
and shame and things that wecan, um, that we are ashamed of
(12:43):
and that we used to beatourselves up with.
And so, you know, I think Ispent the first 10 years trying
to clean up that and how Iwalked through the world to
(13:09):
having more of a spiritual lifeand understanding that that was
sort of the, the be-all andend-all to it.
It's, um, there's a book calledas bill sees it, and there's a
piece in there about that'scalled the keystone of the arch,
and the keystone of the arch isthat sort of um parallelogram.
Well, it's not a parallel grab.
Ok, my geometry is bad thatstone in the middle where the
(13:30):
whole arch comes up and rests onthat stone and you have to keep
the framing in there until thatlast piece is set in and then
the rest of the pieces will bearon that center piece and you
can take the framing away.
So that's what working thesteps has done for me.
(13:54):
You know, and it's like when Iwork with other people, you know
I talk about going through thesteps and that each one of them
is like putting a tool in yourtoolbox.
You know, it's like I'mpowerless over alcohol.
My life has become unmanageable.
It's like I am powerless overalcohol.
My life has become unmanageable.
It's like I am not a powerlessgirl, I am a kick-ass type A.
(14:16):
Show me the goal and I will getit done.
Aries, you know, go get her.
But the truth is there is anelement of powerlessness that is
really quite useful, especiallyto the alcoholic.
It's like you are power.
You're powerless overeverything.
You're powerless over whatother people do and say you're
(14:40):
powerless over traffic.
You're powerless over.
You know what's available inthe grocery store.
You're you know you'repowerless over whether the
Amazon man shows up or not.
You know it's like you arepowerless over absolutely
everything.
So it's basically how you, youknow, react and respond and
(15:00):
swing with the punches that lifecan bring right.
I came to find a spiritual life,a higher power, whatever you
want to call it, in the rooms ofAlcoholics Anonymous.
You know, growing up in church,it's like the whole dude on the
(15:24):
cloud and Jesus on the crossand all of that.
It's like it just didn't hitpay dirt with me.
But, sitting in a room full ofother people like myself, where
everyone had a common goal andeveryone's talking and sharing
their sort of innermost thoughtsand feelings and secrets, um,
(15:48):
there was a camaraderie, acommunion, if you will.
You know that happens there andit's something I felt.
I powerfully, powerfully felt,um, you know it's, it's the,
it's the connection I think thatwe lack sometimes as alcoholics
, and um, that's what I lackedand that's what's been, um, very
(16:15):
much key to me.
Um, because you know I hate tosay this but it's true, it's
like I hated myself.
I really, you know, I had donethings, I had a lot of
achievements in my life, but Idon't think I really liked
(16:40):
myself.
Um, you know, I don't.
You know, I was very defensiveand very hostile and very, um
and aa sort of helped temper meand make me part of, just make
me part of the group.
I didn't have to be in charge,I didn't have to to, you know,
(17:02):
run the show.
Um yeah, it gave me community,which I think is a lot of what's
lacking in the world these days.
Speaker 1 (17:15):
Um, yeah, so thank you so much for sharing all that
.
I really appreciate that, andum, so vulnerably.
You know that's really how allof this works is when we learn
how to recover out loud wereally do become helpful and
(17:39):
create opportunities for otherpeople who are still out there
seeking ways to rebuild theirsanity through sobriety.
So I really appreciate that andit's a powerful story.
I really appreciate thedesperation that you shared that
story about kind of holding thegun and being suicidal.
(17:59):
I mean that just speaks, Ithink, to what all of us can
relate to.
Whether you've sat in a millionAA meetings or not, or you've
been around, I'm pretty sure youcan probably relate to that
level of desperation whereyou're just, you know, at the
end and I hear people say a lotyou know I didn't want to die,
(18:21):
but I didn't want to live either, and so like that's I think
that jumping off place for mostof us and what gets us to the
places where hopefully we can,we can learn to get sober.
So that I think relating tothat feeling is it's always
really powerful for me when Ihear that part of people's
stories.
You know cause I definitely um,I was a depressive drunk as
(18:41):
well two suicide attempts andit's definitely a horrible
thought and feeling to now being20, whatever years out now and
to think back that that's theway I was thinking about myself
or feeling is.
It's so sad, it just hurts myheart.
You know, my life is like amillion times different,
probably like yours.
You know I have three youngadult children.
Speaker 2 (19:04):
But I really needed that.
That's what I say about abottom.
I really needed that to beteachable to be desperate enough
to be willing to say, okay, Iknow nothing.
I don't, I don't know anything,everything I'm doing doesn't
work, so I'll just sit here, bequiet, try to learn and try to
(19:28):
do it a different way.
Yeah, yeah.
Speaker 1 (19:30):
Yeah, that's what it takes.
So most of the time when I talkto people, um, and my
experience working with lots ofother um individuals who have
done, done what we have done youknow they they share a common
experience around, kind of afterwe get and stay sober for a
while, for like a year or more,and then that like one to five
year range, there's really thiskind of awakening that starts to
(19:54):
happen.
You know, we, the fog is likereally lifted, there's clarity.
You know, obviously we're assober as we're ever going to get
at that time.
But we're also starting to seelike, wow, I have opportunities
now that weren't available to mewhen I was in active addiction,
or maybe I would like to, youknow, start a business or have a
(20:17):
baby or leave my partner or youknow whatever, start a drawing
class, I don't know.
You know there's things thatjust come up.
We start to realize like, ohokay, I can do certain things
and I'm just, I was just curiousif you can relate to that, Like
if you had that and kind ofwhat that was like for you.
Speaker 2 (20:36):
You know, I think in in I had already done so much,
you know, in terms of theachievement level.
It's like I've been a classicalballerina.
You know I'd had a career there.
Then I went into the fitnessindustry.
I owned a gym in New York for12 years.
You know that was a big deal.
(20:58):
Then I worked for anothercompany in the fitness industry
and they transferred me to LosAngeles to open their, their you
know sort of flagship on theWest coast.
Then I ditched all of that andwent into the construction
industry.
I know, but classical ballerinato construction manager, it's an
(21:20):
odd path but it makes sense ifyou hear the whole story.
You know, and and so I thinkyou know I'd always been able to
do things.
But it was really theinterpersonal skills that were
(21:46):
the growing part for me and theemotional regulation that was
the growing part for me.
And the emotional regulationthat was the growing part for me
.
The I mean hell.
I just I just wrote a book.
You know it's like I've been adancer, a gym owner, a
construction manager and now I'man author.
(22:06):
Know, it's like, and sobrietyhas brought me to this place of
and I don't think with ego, butjust with put one foot in front
of the other and um, try, youknow, see if you can do it.
Um, go to friends, get help.
(22:27):
What do you think here?
Read my book, do you hate it?
So I don't know that I'veanswered your question, but and
also my sobriety was slow.
You know, I'm 27 years sober,and it's taken a village and
(22:48):
Growing for me has been slow, atleast the important parts, the
emotional parts.
Speaker 1 (22:57):
When you said that the first time, I really related
to that too, because I feellike that was my story too.
I was not somebody who came tothe rooms thinking like, oh, I
think I should get sober or Ihave a problem with alcohol.
That's not my story.
I was definitely like, not atall interested in doing that or
(23:20):
thought that any of that was the.
I knew I was crazy and that Ihad a lot of problems, but I
didn't think alcohol hadanything to do with it, and so
personally just didn't thinkthat that was the solution.
But that's where I landed and Ifollowed directions because I
was too scared not to and I wason the verge of losing a whole
bunch of stuff, and so I kind ofwas in that space for a long
(23:42):
time.
I remember sitting in thoserooms thinking like, oh, I don't
belong here.
This is ridiculous.
I was in rehab and I never evenunpacked my bag, cause I was
like, oh, they're going to comepick me up.
I don't know that.
You know this is they made amistake, but that's not usually
what happens when people end upin rehab, like, usually normal
drinkers don't end up in rehab.
So that's not what happened forme, and so, for like 18 months,
(24:04):
though, I was like still doingthat, I was still like I did the
things because I was too scarednot to, but I was like I don't
really know.
This is my story.
Speaker 2 (24:13):
You know, you were still seeing the differences.
Speaker 1 (24:15):
I was like I don't, my story is really that bad.
I didn't really have all thatstuff going on, and so it was a
very slow burn for me too.
And I only bring that up and Idon't mean to take up your time
because I want to hear more fromyou but sometimes I share, like
I remember sharing at my so Igot sober and then six months
(24:36):
later I got pregnant and I hadthree kids in four years.
So it was like a very, verychaotic experience.
It was one that I chose.
I loved it, I was like veryexciting, but then I had to do
things kind of backwards becauseby year four I was like having
like a sober bottom, you know,cause I really I'd done the work
but I hadn't done all the.
You know I had to restart.
So by year 10, I was like in themidst of this big, huge life
with all of the stuff and like Iremember celebrating at my
(24:59):
anniversary and I was reallypissed off, like I was mad
because I felt like I shouldhave been further along.
Why am I still having to dothis crap?
It's been 10 years.
This is ridiculous and I likethat's how I was talking, you
know, and I think that I thinkabout that so often and how
hilarious it is, cause I'm justlike what is wrong with you?
(25:19):
But like I mean, I was gratefulfor my life.
I knew that I had a blessing, Iknew all of that, but I felt
like I should have arrived more,you know, I don't know, I felt
like it should have just beeneasier or I could have handled
things better.
I don't know what I thought,but it clearly wasn't well or
all the way.
But it was just a reminder ofme of, like, how slow things are
(25:40):
those ten years.
Sober right, I'm still cleaning, they call it feeling the onion
yeah, and.
Speaker 2 (25:46):
I think it's such a good analogy because you know
it's layers on layers on layers.
I mean, you know, when I was,when I was a year sober, you
know it's like I started to datewe very quickly, you know, got,
you know, serious and moved intogether.
(26:08):
You know, within six months, webought a house together, you
know, renovated that house.
Three years later, sold it,bought another one, renovated
that house.
I changed careers into theconstruction industry.
You know it's like, um, youknow I had this.
I went from being a year soberto having this huge life right.
(26:33):
And you know, the second housewas a house in the Hollywood
Hills.
And you know I'm working inconstruction management and you
know, with the company car andthe six figure salary and all of
that stuff company car and thesix-figure salary and all of
(26:54):
that stuff and um, and yet, at10 years and people talk about
this, it's like at 10 years, oh,this is, this is the good part
um, you know I got, I got firedfrom my big job and they took
away my phone and my company carand my laptop and everything
and sent me home with a banker'sbox, you know, and fired into
the Great Recession of 2018.
(27:15):
And you know, I called mysponsor and, you know, told him
my sad story and he said go to ameeting.
And I literally took the phoneand shoved it against my butt
and screamed fuck you.
You know it's like what doesthat have to do with what just
happened to me?
It had everything to do withwhat just happened to me,
(27:35):
because I needed to go back andreally focus on my sobriety and
and me growing as a person,rather than focusing on all of
the outside things of you know,the job and the house and and
the relationship and and all ofthose things.
(27:57):
Um, I had to set my priorityand my priority really was, you
know, first and foremost, tostay sober and work on that and
my sober life and my spirituallife.
So, um, yeah, there's, there'sa lot that onion still peels,
you know, and and I'll theunless you want me to be quiet
(28:19):
the the tail end of that isafter 22 years, at the end of
the pandemic, she said I want adivorce, bye, see you later.
And I had.
I mean, I was stunned from outof nowhere, right, and what's
interesting was I didn't thinkabout drinking.
(28:40):
All I could think about waskilling myself because, once
again.
I needed to make those feelingsstop.
I couldn't stand the way I feltand you know I was sober long
enough that it kind of bogglesme that I didn't think about
drinking but I 51, 50 myself.
I put myself in the nuthouseBecause I needed to.
(29:04):
I needed to look at that andhow I had gotten there, and also
I needed to go and get someoutside help because you know a
lot of us do need outside helpto look at, you know, causes and
conditions and the underlyingissues.
Speaker 1 (29:20):
So, yeah, a million percent.
I mean that then that'ssomething that I talk about
constantly, like here on the onthe show.
And then also I'm a mentalhealth therapist.
I work with people, you know,kind of every day, um, and
mostly people who are inrecovery or around recovery,
because you really can't get,you can't get away from
addiction, like everybody hassomething.
(29:40):
So many of the people that Iwork with are, you know, either
were raised by one or are livingwith one or are raising one, um
, and so that's something thatwe talk about quite a bit is
just, we don't ever reallyarrive, you know, like the work
never, the growth in the worknever really ends, and I'm
(30:00):
really grateful for that.
Today, like today, I can reallysee like, oh wow, I'm super
grateful for that Cause I don'twant to just like be stunted
ever.
But you know there are periodsof time that come up when we are
just, you know, hit and punchedin the face with life.
That's really, really painfuland I mean I went through that
during the pandemic.
(30:21):
We had three teenagers we hadwho were in total, one of which
was in total crisis than thesecond one.
I mean we were, it was, welived in crisis for like four
years, sustained trauma, and itwas a very, very difficult time.
I mean, I talk about it a lotLike we, we had to make some
decisions that I just were someof the hardest things I've ever
done in my whole life and and itdoesn't it doesn't make any of
(30:42):
that stuff easier, but sobrietycertainly does make things
easier.
You know, it's a lot easier toshow up and do those kinds of
things when you aren't under theinfluence of drugs and alcohol
or whatever else you might beusing to numb out, and I just
think that that you know.
It's wonderful to be at thisplace now where I know for
certain 100 million percent thatlike this is the easier, softer
(31:04):
way Absolutely Doesn't meanthat like we're not going to
look for easier ways sometimesLike of course we are.
That's the human experience isto look for the way out, you
know, and my natural way is tolook for a way out to escape.
Speaker 2 (31:22):
It made me dig deeper .
You know it's like this, thisyou know this was absolutely a
crisis in my life of you know,this was absolutely a crisis in
my life of, you know, gettingdivorced.
And you know, it made me digdeeper.
It made me go to therapy andfinally find a therapist who,
you know, wasn't that I couldn'tfascinate and who was no
(31:43):
bullshit, and you know, and thenI was like, oh, I'm drawn to
crazy people because that's whatI grew up with.
It feels like home.
And then this, this led me towriting this book, which was an
absolute accident.
I literally was looking forsomething to do rather than
(32:04):
clean house, and I started, youknow, because I'm Irish, I'm a
big storyteller.
And I started, you know,because I'm a I'm Irish, I'm a
big storyteller.
So, but really I wrote itbecause I needed to understand.
You know, how did I get here?
So I I kind of wrote it all,wrote it all down, and in the
midst of writing it all down, Iwas telling all those stories
that I've been telling for years.
(32:25):
But I needed to, I needed tounderstand it, who, who I was
and how I was, and that's turnedinto me publishing a book.
So you know, you don't knowwhere life is going to take you,
and it's an absolute adventure,you know, and none of this
would have happened without megetting and being sober and
(32:47):
being willing to look at thesethings and wanting to look at
these things.
Speaker 1 (32:52):
Yeah, totally agree with that.
And and I do think that age is awonderful thing in this way too
, like as we age my experienceanyway, and many of my, my peers
I know we, we are more wise,you know we are different, you
know we have more lifeexperiences, we have more of
those opportunities toexperience the horribleness of
(33:14):
life under our belt right.
So we've kind of built thatperseverance muscle over a long
period of time versus, like youknow, my 20 year old kids who
are just kind of at thebeginning of that, not that they
haven't had their own pain, butthey haven't had as much, so
they don't have as muchexperience to know that like, oh
wow, I actually can handlethings that are really hard.
(33:35):
And oh, by the way, I'm alsonot going to die or implode or
any of that if my feelings arehurt, you know, or if I have
experiencing discomfort, because, by the way, most of life is
pretty uncomfortable.
And so I know, now almosttomorrow's my birthday, actually
50, I'll be 50.
And, like now I know, like Idon't, I'm really pretty
(33:57):
unbothered by most things inlife, because that's the level
of peace and contentment I havetoday, because most things won't
compare at all to some of thelevel of pain I've had you know,
most things will not even comeclose, and so that's my gauge.
I'm sure you probably feel thesame, like.
So unless and until somethingelse hits the top of those
things that have been the veryworst things in my life, they
(34:20):
just like really aren't thatimportant.
Speaker 2 (34:22):
And one of the things I've also learned is that you
know, everything's always workedout, even during my, you know,
drunken, debauched days.
It's like I've always beentaking I mean, I did the work
Right, I showed up at the shittywaitressing jobs and stuff like
that but it's like I've alwaysbeen taken care of, Things have
(34:44):
always worked out and it's it'svery.
I don't live in fear anymoreand it's it's very I don't live
in fear anymore.
I live with an enormous amountof faith, even in the crazy
world we live in now, where, youknow, it feels like
everything's going to hell in ahandbasket.
I'm alluding to politics,without trying to talk about
(35:14):
politics, but it's like you knowit, it doesn't scare me, it's
it's you know right, it's goingto work out, I will, and plus,
I'm ancient, so it's like Idon't care what anybody thinks
of me, you know so and those arethe blessings that I'm
referring to.
Speaker 1 (35:22):
I mean, like I feel like we just get to be
completely different and reallycontent in our own skin.
You know, at this age I justfeel like wow, like I say all
the time and I remember saying,even when I was a little younger
and earlier sobriety, when Iwas thinking, like man, I wish I
could give all of this to likemy kids, like I want my girls to
never have to like have all ofthose years of like worrying
(35:44):
about what everybody thinks andlike comparing, but like you
can't like take it away fromthem.
But I wish I could you know,because knowing what we know now
, it's like wow, you get to thatother part and you're just, you
know you do have a shift inpriorities and a shift in focus
and and really the ability to beable to, to, to discern at any
given moment, like you know, howimportant is this?
(36:08):
What is my experience with thisfrom the past?
Like how do I know you know howto handle this?
I mean, like we can, we haveskills today, you know, and then
we can also always go back tobasics.
I've had the pleasure, I say,but it's also been very, very
painful in some waysprofessionally working with two
people who are in recovery, onefor about a year probably now
(36:33):
and very just, chronic relapseor constant, constant, constant,
constant.
I mean like a little bit olderthan me, my age, kids, similar
ages, and just you know,destroyed his life, you know
still at his family, kind ofsomehow.
But just watching this man likeconstantly not get, it has been
just so, I don't know, one ofmy most big, one of my biggest
(36:55):
challenges as a therapist, right, because I know what I know,
obviously he knows I'm inrecovery.
I self-disclose that all thetime we talk about that, but
like I just kind of want to belike dude, what are you doing?
But I also know that likenothing I do, I can't make
anybody do anything or not doanything, and so I mean so the
pain of just kind of watchinghim and waiting until it was
(37:17):
time, and I think we might, wemight be there, which is very
interesting.
And so now it's been a fewmonths, like a few months, and
we were talking, last week Iguess, about a situation and he
presented the situation and hewas like, okay, this is what's
happening.
And he's like, oh, it's thefirst time I've had like real
cravings, like I was really likeI was feeling, I was like I was
(37:39):
getting ready to get in the car, you know, and I was like okay,
so I mean that's normal.
And so then I said well, whatdid you do?
And so he's telling me.
He's like oh, you know, I I did, I started focusing on my
breathing.
I, you know, did.
He gave me like four or fivethings and I said, oh, um, they
(37:59):
were great, they were greatthings.
And I said, well, well, did youcall your sponsor?
And he's like, well, I did, Ifinally like he finally did you
know?
But then he didn't like shareall of the things.
Like he just called like anormal, like I'm calling you
normally, oh yeah, cool.
Like, tell me about that.
Like, why didn't?
Why didn't you feel like it wasappropriate, you know, and it
(38:22):
was.
It was very interesting to talkabout that.
So we talked that out and like,and I basically said, you know
like, hey, like, why don't wethis is all great, like such
great stuff, super good tools.
But like, why don't we movethat situation, that that
program up to the top?
Like the next time whensomething's going on and you're
having that, like, let's moveyour program first.
Know, like, how about we justpick up that phone first?
(38:44):
You know like, wouldn't that belike so much more amazing?
Speaker 2 (38:46):
because then you're like on the phone with somebody
and I'm not saying you gotta sayall the things, but you're
talking it out and oh no,suddenly now you feel better say
oh, you know, when I was firstaround alcoholics anonymous, I
said you know, I don't know whyaa works, but it has something
to do with the chemical reactionbetween my ass and a metal
(39:10):
chair, because I don't want togo.
And then I go there right, andI walk out and I feel better.
Speaker 1 (39:16):
Right, I tell you.
Speaker 2 (39:17):
You know it's like, and it's also why I like to say
time doesn't matter, you know.
Know, I don't care if you're 40years sober.
You, I've seen a lot of peoplewith a lot of time that are
assholes and jerks or whatever.
But what time has given me wasit's like when this thing
happened and I got out of thenut house and I went to a
(39:39):
meeting.
I just, you know, it's like Idon't about you, but I am
fighting for my life.
I am fighting for my littlealcoholic life because at my
baseline I will do drugs and getdrunk and that's my favorite
way to deal with stuff.
Not anymore, really.
But what I do now is I go to ameeting or if I'm talking to
(40:01):
somebody, I tell them the truth.
I throw my guts on the floor,you know, and it's like here I,
you know, because I was 23 yearssober at the time.
I'm like here, I'm 23 yearssober and I just
institutionalized myself becauseyou know my wife doesn't love
me anymore, boo.
But you know, because, becauseI think that's that's what it's
(40:25):
all about.
It's all it's like.
Why go to therapy if you're notgoing to tell your therapist all
the truth?
It's like you don't hear it.
They don't hear it.
How are they supposed to helpyou?
So you know, I love, I lovedoing this.
It's like what's the greatOscar Wilde quote Be yourself.
(40:50):
Everybody else is already taken.
It's like I'm going to be me.
I'm going to be Emily and throwmy guts on the floor, tell you
the truth, and we're as sick asour secrets and all of that.
Speaker 1 (41:04):
Yeah, I agree.
I always say all the timetherapy only works if you the
truth.
And we're as sick as oursecrets and all of that.
Yeah, I agree, I always say allthe time, like you know,
therapy only works if you'rehonest.
And I told a lot of lies to alot of therapists before I got
here and so when I landed in thehospital, my husband called
that therapist and said my wifejust tried to kill herself.
I think she was like, like what?
Because she didn't know thewhole truth, which is such a
(41:24):
shame.
But it is what we do, you know.
What we think is, you know,going to keep us well or
whatever.
You know, I had issues withtrying with being well, because
I felt being well meant I wasgoing to be fat, you know.
And so, like, I have a lot ofthat kind of stuff to work
through and that's why we layerit on right, we can do AA or
(41:44):
some other recovery program ofyour choice, and then you can
start reading Quitlet, you canstart doing meditation and yoga
and workout and nutrition andtherapy and like, start layering
on all of the other amazingtools that we have in this life
that can help us be well.
You know, there isn't just oneway.
There isn't just one way.
The way is whatever's going tomake you um.
(42:07):
Well, you know um, and you'reso right.
You know there's a lot ofpeople.
My first sponsor told me tocarry a big book around with me
all the time.
It keeps the crazies away,because there was a lot of
people in aa um who come to a alot but are not well, um and
well, think about where you are.
Speaker 2 (42:27):
This is not, aren't we fabulous?
Anonymous.
This is alcoholics anonymous.
You're in a room full ofalcoholics and drug addicts who
are, like you know, in varyingstages of being, you know,
messed up, right.
So don't worry about whatthey're doing, worry about what.
What you're doing.
You know, tell your truth,share your truth.
(42:48):
You know, if somebody sayssomething meaningful to you,
listen, internalize, take it in.
But you know you can't do itjust up here.
You know it's not about beingable to quote the book, it's
about getting into your heartand your guts and your soul,
because otherwise it's, it'sgonna break down, you're gonna
(43:10):
be in that scary place somedayand you have no defense against
the first drink.
Speaker 1 (43:15):
So you know, I feel like for me anyway, not about
your experience, but it's been areally, really long time since
I've thought about taking adrink or a drug, Like I was
relieved of that from from very,very early on.
Thank God I was relieved ofthat obsession and compulsion
early on.
So that is that for a very longtime two decades that has not
been the center of my problem,Right, and so for me, I've
(43:39):
become keenly aware of the factthat I'm not going to take a
drink or a drug.
I'm just almost certainly not.
But there's a whole bunch ofother crap that I will probably
do that could be hurtful to meor you, and so that is.
That is where my priority lies.
That is why I do the things.
That is why I wake up in themorning and do the same things
(44:00):
every single day, and then I goto bed and I do the same things
every single day, and then I,you know, I take care of myself
and I, you know, I try to liveby, you know, a lot of the 10th
step and the 12 and 12.
I mean, there's just thingsthat I do in my life because I
don't want to be an ass, right?
Speaker 2 (44:15):
Or recognizing that you're trying to change the way
you feel.
Right, it's like you know, asays hungry, angry, lonely,
tired.
Right?
Am I hungry?
Am I pissed off?
And I talk to somebody, am Iangry?
Am I tired?
It's like have I done anyexercise?
Do I need food?
Do I just need to?
You know, relate to anotherhuman being, you know.
(44:36):
Do I need to go to yoga class?
Do I need to meditate?
There's a lot of tools, youknow.
Speaker 1 (44:42):
There sure are.
And also, I think one of thegreatest things that I've, that
I've really learned and kind ofbeen marinating in in a very
kind of general way, andspecifically sometimes over the
last, I would say, five to 10years, but even more so recently
is just, you know, that I likeletting go of any kind of
concept of reliance on anyoneelse to make you happy is got to
(45:06):
be squash right.
So like if I'm constantlythinking like, oh, if you did
this, or if, oh, you just didthat, or whatever that's going
to make me content and peacefuland happy, that's a victim
mentality.
And so, whether it's like thechaos of the world you alluded
to it earlier whether it's thischaos and craziness that we view
and we don't agree and blah,blah, blah and you know,
(45:27):
everyone's entitled to havetheir own opinions about things
and beliefs about stuff.
That's the beautiful thingabout being human.
We all get to do that.
But what we don't get to do islike make it other people's
problem or a job to make us feelpeaceful and content.
And so today the release ofthat has been, I would say,
probably the greatest blessing.
(45:49):
It's how I've stayed marriedfor I don't know how many long,
long time, many decades, becauseof a lot of acceptance around
that, like I have, no longer.
Speaker 2 (45:58):
It's been the greatest revelation of my life.
In the past I'd say year, yeah,just.
And part of that is by notbeing in a relationship I mean
in true lesbian fashion, serialmonogamy, from relationship to
relationship to relationship.
You know looking for love, but.
But the problem is, is that youknow, it's like, now that I've
(46:22):
you know, let myself stay singleand focused on me.
It's like you know it's likenow that I've you know, let
myself stay single and focusedon me.
It's like you know the wholeconcept of like self love.
What the fuck is that?
Well, you know what it is.
What it is is the key.
You know it's like I'vediscovered me.
I'm a very good person, I'msmart, I'm kind, you know.
(46:44):
It's like I'm having a loveaffair with me for the first
time in my life.
And now I won't be going into.
You know, if I meet somebody orget into a relationship, I
won't be looking for somethingfrom that other person.
Right, you know, it's like Ihave it inside myself.
You know, it's like I don'tknow if I'm saying that very
(47:07):
well you are.
Speaker 1 (47:08):
Yeah, I think this has been a topic of conversation
in my family too, because mygirls are 21 and 20 and my son
is 17.
But they're in college and theydon't really date that much
because they don't seem superinterested but they have a
little bit.
They don't seem superinterested, but they have a
little bit.
But one of the things I talk tothem about a lot and I talk
about in my work with women inmy room, is we're not looking
(47:30):
for the other half, we're notlooking for complete me, we're
not looking for the other half.
It's none of that.
We're looking for compliments.
We're looking for comealongside, who can we do life
with, who aligns mostly with us,that we can tolerate and be
relatively happy with that wecan have a life with that
(47:53):
doesn't have anything to do withcompleting you.
We want them to compliment us.
Yes, and there's no need, andI've really said that.
I've said that several times,to one in particular, and I've
said we're not looking for aproject, you know, we're not
looking for potential, we'relooking for partnership and it's
hard to understand what that is.
(48:13):
It's hard to know what that iswhen you're 20.
But I feel like at least usingthat kind of language now might
be helpful, because the realityof relationships, as you know,
is that it's really actually notthat fun most of the time.
I mean you, it's, it's sort oflove, we love each other, but
that's actually not it.
It's really just a lot oftolerance and acceptance and,
(48:34):
yes, we have fun, yes, there'slove, but it's a lot of
uncomfortableness.
And who can sit with you whileyour mom is dying at the
hospital?
You know who's going gonna showup while your kid, you know, is
being diagnosed with a terminalillness.
I mean, like, can these peopledo that?
Can this person do that?
Yes or no?
Because that's what life is.
It's not all like rainbows andsunshine and like we have a hot
(48:56):
sex all the time and it'sbeautiful, and no, it's actually
just not.
And I think that illusion has tobe squashed.
You know this sort of offantasy tale that I think
society created and has allowedto like, I don't know, blow up
for years.
But I'm here to squash it.
I'm just kidding, anyway.
(49:17):
Well, listen, it's been greatchatting with you.
I wish we could keep talking.
I'm sure we would have so manymore areas to go, but why don't
you tell people where they canfind you if they want to reach
out or get your book?
How do you like to connect?
Speaker 2 (49:31):
Well, let's see, my name is Emily Stairsmith and
it'sE-M-I-L-Y-S-A-Y-R-E-S-M-I-T-H.
I wrote a book.
It's called Smartass Memoir ofa Mouthy Girl.
You can buy it on Amazon or atBarnes and Noble or things like
(49:57):
that, and I have an author'spage on Facebook and I have a
web page, which is really verypathetic because I haven't done
the work on it yet.
So I think, if you, if you wantto find me um Facebook and um
smart ass memoir of a mouthygirl is probably they're
probably the best ways to findme and get ahold of me.
Speaker 1 (50:21):
Okay, I'll make sure I link to all that stuff below
in the show notes, thank you,thank you again so much for
joining me.
It's been a super funconversation, um, and I hope you
have a fantastic day.
Speaker 2 (50:30):
Thank you, thank you for having me.
Thank you very much.
Speaker 1 (50:38):
Thank you for joining me for this week's episode of
confident, sober women.
If you enjoyed thisconversation, hit the subscribe
button above so you won't missany upcoming episodes.
And hey, if you really loved it, leave me a review.
You can learn more about theSober Freedom Inner Circle
membership atwwwshelbyjohncoachingcom.
(50:59):
Forward slash inner circle.
See you next time.
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