June 24, 2025 • 40 mins
Episode Highlights: Paulette Kengg, 67, shares her powerful transformation from a "take it or leave it" drinker to alcohol addiction in her mid-50s, and her ultimate freedom through faith-based recovery. After battling chronic insomnia for 8.5 years and following and old friend's advice to drink wine as a sleep aid, Paulette found herself addicted to alcohol—keeping a wine bottle by her bedside instead of sleeping pills.
Key Topics Discussed:
- How chronic insomnia led to alcohol dependency
- Why AA and traditional recovery programs didn't work for Paula
- The role of trauma in addiction (Paulette's father was murdered when she was 14)
- Combining neuroscience with biblical principles for lasting sobriety
- The Heart of Addiction Bible study by Mark Shaw
- Overcoming shame around addiction in Christian communities
- EMDR therapy and trauma healing
- Neuroplasticity and brain recovery in sobriety
- Daily spiritual practices for maintaining sobriety
Paula's Sobriety Tools:
- Daily Bible study, prayer, and meditation
- Journaling (she's kept journals since age 14)
- Exercise and proper nutrition
- Self-compassion and reparenting work
- Serving others in recovery community
Near-Death Experience: Paulette shares her harrowing story of nearly bleeding to death after mixing Jack Daniels with Ambien, emphasizing how addiction progressed despite life-threatening consequences.
Resources Mentioned:
- Spirit-Led Sobriety book by Paulette Kengg
- This Naked Mind by Annie Grace
- Andrew Huberman Podcast Episode 86
- Heart of Addiction Bible study
- EMDR therapy
- Cognitive Behavioral Therapy
Connect with Paulette:
- Newsletter: spiritledsobriety.com
- Instagram: @spiritledsobriety2
- Facebook: Spirit-Led Sobriety (private group)
- Email: spiritledsobriety@gmail.com
Episode Takeaways: Recovery isn't one-size-fits-all. Paulette's journey shows that combining scientific understanding of addiction with spiritual transformation can create lasting change. Her story demonstrates the importance of not giving up on yourself, even after years of failed attempts.
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Oh, and by the way, if you didn’t know, my remote Neurofeedback Therapy program is up and running. Learn more here!
If you aren't part of the Confident Sober Women Facebook group, it's a great place to be. There are over a thousand other sober women there building lives they don't want to escape from. Come on over and join us.
And if you haven't read my memoir, grab a copy today and maybe a second one for a friend. There is so much hope in recovery, and I shared my story so raw and vulnerable so that others would know they aren't alone and that there is a way to live well, manage relationships, parent your kids, and have a healthy body, all while staying sober. Grab a copy of Recovering in Recovery: The Life-Changing Joy of Sobriety wherever books are sold.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
Well, hey there sober ladies.
Thank you so much for joiningme today for the Confident Sober
Women podcast.
I am so excited today to sharewith you my conversation with
Paulette Knegg.
She is a retired, award-winningeditor and author of the book
Spirit-Led Sobriety.
She is a breath of fresh air.
You're going to love her energy.
(00:21):
She's a wife and a mom and agrandmom to what she calls the
world's best grandkids and she'sliving her best life in Texas.
She shares very candidly abouther experience with trauma it's
pretty intense as well as heraddiction history and then
(00:41):
freedom from alcohol.
And she talks a lot about herspiritual program and how God
really removed the obsession andcompulsion for her to want to
drink and how she relies on thatspiritual connection every
single day to live her best life.
We talk a little bit about somepractical tools for getting in
touch with some of thatspiritual connection, but also
(01:03):
in just maintaining our health,you know, learning to take care
of ourselves, talking aboutreparenting things that we all
really need to learn, especiallywhen we are new in sobriety,
but then even when we've beenhere for a while, kind of just
continuing to refresh and growand learn.
So grab that big glass of wateror your favorite mocktail, and
enjoy this conversation withPaulette.
(01:37):
Hello and welcome to theConfident Sober Women podcast.
I'm your guide, shelby John.
I'm the mother of three, wifeto one, and sober since July 1st
2002.
As sober women, we havesomething huge in common, and
when we share our lives and ourstories with each other, we feel
that sense of belonging andconnection.
(01:57):
So we know we are no longeralone.
In this podcast, you will hearreal life talk about building
confidence and transforming yourlife beyond recovery.
So come on, let's talk.
Hey, it's me, shelby.
Have you ever wondered what'sreally happening in your brain
(02:18):
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(02:42):
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(03:04):
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(03:25):
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change.
Well, hey there, paulette,thank you so much for joining me
today for the Confident SoberWomen podcast.
(03:46):
I am so excited to hear yourstory and have my audience learn
a little bit more about you,and we're going to have a great
conversation.
So I'm going to turn the micover to you.
You can share a little bit moreabout that story and then we're
going to chat.
Speaker 2 (04:00):
Okay, that sounds good.
Thank you so much for having me.
So my name is Paula King.
I am almost 67 years old andfor most of my life I was a take
it or leave it drinker.
And it was in my mid 50s when Isuddenly found myself addicted
to alcohol.
And you've questioned suddenly,but in my case I had chronic
(04:25):
insomnia for eight and a halfyears and I saw a team of three
doctors for a year and a half.
I was always told you know,have a drink, it'll help you
relax and fall asleep.
So, because I didn't have adrinking problem at the time,
that's what I did, and you knowwhat it sure did help me relax
and help me fall asleep.
And before long I had a bottleof wine by my bedside rather
(04:50):
than a sleeping aid.
The wine was my sleep aid.
And I suddenly became addictedand it really scared me because
I had never had this problembefore and I had tried tried AA,
and I know AA is a very wellthought, you know program.
It's really helped a lot ofpeople, but for me it actually
(05:14):
caused more harm than good.
I tried to celebrate recovery.
I tried lots of differentonline programs and I can only
say it was a nightmare when Idiscovered the science behind
alcohol through a lot of readingand research and listening to
(05:36):
podcasts.
When I learned how science, howalcohol affects the body and
the brain, it's like no wonderpeople become addicted.
It's only doing what it'ssupposed to do and it was one of
the hardest thing I've everdone was to overcome alcohol.
(05:57):
And I'm a very spiritual personand sadly, the last place I went
to should have been the firstplace I went to, which was my
church.
But how often does the pastortalk about addiction?
Like hardly ever.
There's so much shame aroundthat.
(06:18):
But it took.
After about 10 years of tryingall kinds of therapy I tried
everything I finally called thepastor at my church and told him
what was going on and heimmediately said immediately,
paulette, I've been clean andsober for 20 years, and I mean
just the shame.
(06:38):
So he put me in touch with thebiblical counselor, you know.
So he put me in touch with abiblical counselor and we worked
together for a year and a halfon a Bible study called the
Heart of Addiction by Mark Shaw,and the premise of that book is
you transform and renew yourmind from the inside out.
That's what the Bible says todo.
(07:04):
Well, neuroplasticity is thescience part right where you
change your thoughts, your, yourbrain, literally rewires itself
.
So when I learned how the brainworks and how the bible, you
know, transform and renew yourmind, well, that is, that's
science's answer toneuroplasticity.
So when those two came togetherfor me, that's what broke me
(07:28):
free, and I have not had a drinksince around midnight, december
30th 2022.
Speaker 1 (07:34):
Wow.
So thank you so much forsharing all that and being so
vulnerable.
That is truly you know, as weknow, how it works, right.
So I was curious if you couldjust say a little bit more, as
we're kind of getting into this,like how did that work for you?
Like you said, you haven't hada drink since, so like what was
it?
You know, I know it's a process, but what was the, the catalyst
(07:58):
?
I guess if you could really putyour finger on it for kind of
giving you that freedom fromalcohol.
Speaker 2 (08:05):
I have this the part of me that loves God and the
part of me that asks a lot ofquestions.
He gave me an inquisitive mind.
I'm a retired editor by trade.
I asked a lots of questions.
I need to understand why thingsare the way they are.
I just do, that's just me, andso I learned all that I needed
(08:27):
to learn about how alcoholaffects the brain and body.
That answered, that satisfiedthe knowledge side of me, the
intellectual side of me, becauseI am a Christian and addiction
is not talked about from thepulpit.
I didn't think I could talk toanybody and you know, I just I
(08:54):
was at the end of my rope and I,like I said, I confessed to the
pastor what was going on andwhen I read, when I worked
through that Bible study and ittaught me how God looks at
alcohol, how God looks atalcohol as addiction, it's
really not addiction from God'spoint of view, it's sin, the sin
(09:15):
of idolatry.
You're going to alcohol insteadof God to meet your needs as a
Christian.
It broke my heart that that'swhat I was doing, cause I can't
argue.
That is what I was doing.
You know and I know noteverybody has the same beliefs
as I do and that's okay.
(09:36):
I'm just, this is my truth andmy experience, but it just it
cracked the code in my brain.
And, incidentally, when Istarted doing that and then I
went to those three doctors fora year and a half, I saw my
primary care doctor, a boardcertified sleep specialist, and
(09:59):
a cognitive behavior therapistthat specializes in insomnia.
For a year and a half thesethree doctors worked together as
a tag team and, like crackedthe code of my brain.
And the more I quit, the longerI stayed away from alcohol,
obviously, the more your brainis going to regenerate and get
new cells and you're just goingto think more clearly.
(10:21):
You're going to.
I ended up sleeping so muchbetter.
If you don't sleep well, youdon't make good decisions.
You've got to be able to sleep.
Speaker 1 (10:30):
That's so true.
I mean, sleep deprivation isreally dangerous.
Honestly.
They've done lots of researchand studies on that, but it can
create, it just can make youfeel literally crazy, you know
if it goes on for too long.
So you're right.
And also that is the time,excuse me, we know from science
where the brain is kind of doingthat regenerative work it's
(10:52):
healing, you know, in our sleepis when it's getting that kind
of regrowth that kind ofregrowth and but you know, I
also, I like I said I I foughtthis for almost 10 years and I
did.
Speaker 2 (11:07):
I listened to a lot of podcasts.
I learned about different typesof therapy EMDR therapy was
really helpful to me.
Of course.
Therapy, cognitive behaviortherapy.
I come from a reallytrauma-based childhood.
My first exposure to alcoholwas when my drunk uncle shot and
(11:30):
killed my dad in cold bloodwhen I was 14 years old and my
sister came in from out of townto pick me up and she gave me
Jack Daniels straight to calm medown, because you know what,
that's all she knew to do.
And my mom, you know she had alot of drinking problems and
(11:53):
when you grow up with that,that's just what you're modeled.
I wasn't modeled coping skills,I did.
I had to learn how to parentmyself, basically.
Speaker 1 (12:06):
Right.
I mean that's a lot of the workthat we do in in therapy.
Right Is to re is to.
I help people all the time andlearn how to reparent themselves
.
You know, yes, I do EMDRtherapy and we work on the
trauma.
We heal the brain at themolecular level from those
traumas.
But then we also use goodcognitive behavioral skills and
(12:26):
insight work to help peoplereparent themselves, to give
those parts of ourselves thatdidn't get what they needed when
they were younger, what theyneed today, and and kind of
teaching them how to do that,and that's really helpful.
Um, so thank you for sharing alittle bit more about your
history.
I think that's really importantfor people to know too, because
we know from the research toothat addiction doesn't just come
from nowhere.
You know it comes from traumaand and we all have this right
(12:50):
If you've been a human on theearth for any length of time,
you have trauma and it'sdifferent for all of us.
You know it's either a capitalT trauma or you know the big
sort of things everybody thinksabout but we all have the
lowercase T traumas.
You know, sometimes it's justthings like words people have
said, or witnessing certainthings or living in certain
(13:11):
kinds of environments, so it'snot always the dramatic kinds
that leave a big stain on ourbrain.
But even the lowercase Ttraumas can lead to those
negative beliefs about ourselfand then create um neuropathways
and um issues related todopamine and serotonin that want
us to utilize things like yeah,and you know I was really, I
(13:33):
was really good at uh, givingtrauma to myself.
Speaker 2 (13:36):
You know I almost died, uh, through a horrible
accident at our lake house bymyself.
I drank.
I drank Jack Daniels straight.
I thought at five in theafternoon it'd be nice time to
have a have a drink, reading myKindle, looking at the lake.
Well then I got tired and tookan Ambien and you don't mix Jack
(13:58):
Daniel and Ambien and I nearlybled to death.
It was awful.
I I am a true miracle,according to the doctor.
And yeah, you would think thatexperience would have led me to
quit like the next day, butsadly it was.
It took a few more years.
(14:18):
But you know, to anybody that'slistening, that is not yet a
confident, sober woman thatneeds help.
I just encourage you to notgive up on yourself.
If you give up on yourself,well then you're not going to
make it.
You know I have one of my oldersisters fell.
(14:40):
She drank too much Three yearsago.
She drank too much, fell, hither head and bled to death.
My other sisters found her body.
Like you don't want that tohappen.
So no matter what you're goingthrough, keep going through it.
You will get there you willfind.
Speaker 1 (14:59):
Whatever the matching click thing is for you, it will
happen, but you've got to keepgoing you know, holly Whitaker
is the one that comes to my mindright now and plenty of others
who have, you know, writtenwhole books on on all kinds of
(15:25):
stuff about their story, plusaddiction and and shared how
there was like that kind of push, pull right.
You know they would startsomething maybe like, okay, well
, now I'm going to try to startdoing yoga, okay, see if that
helps, and like they would get alittle bit better or whatever
for a little while, but then itdidn't really stop the drinking,
but like it helped them get alittle better, and then they'd
try to start doing somethingelse.
You know a little bit of thisand a little bit of that, and so
you know, um, not everybody's afirst nighter, you know, and,
(15:48):
like you mentioned, some peoplego to 12 step programs.
That's how I got sober, causethat's the only thing we had and
, um, it worked for me and Ithink it's great.
But then you do need to layer ona lot of other things.
Some people use church, somepeople use, um, you know, other
therapists or coaches, thingslike that, and and that's
wonderful, it's, but just keepgoing right, you know, yeah,
yeah, because and that's why weshare our stories and it's one
(16:08):
of the reasons why I do thispodcast is a to help people grow
in their emotional sobriety,for sure, but also just show
people that there's always hope.
There is hope on the other sideof this life.
Speaker 2 (16:19):
And it's so worth it.
Speaker 1 (16:20):
It's so worth it.
You know that pain andawfulness, that we live in an
active addiction is sotumultuous and yucky and create
so much wreckage and destroysfamilies, but there's so much
hope.
Speaker 2 (16:33):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (16:33):
On the other side.
Speaker 2 (16:34):
Yeah, you know, about a year and a half ago I was met
with an unexpected healthdiagnosis and it's like, hmm,
what's up with this?
And I'm dealing with it.
I'm just so grateful that I'mnot drinking, Because if I had
not been able to successfullyput it down and keep it down, I
(16:58):
may not be alive today.
Between what's going on with myhealth and then drinking, so
the fact that I'm able toovercome alcohol for good, I
feel like Shelby I can do, I can, I can, I can do anything I
really can.
That was the hardest thing I'veever done in my life.
Speaker 1 (17:19):
I say that too.
I always say that too.
And so in a society thatworships alcohol, you know, a
society that where you can'teven go to like a first birthday
party.
Kids sporting event you know,alcohol and it's everywhere,
it's all the time, it's all, andit's the only drug that
anybody's ever like.
Why are thing that you do?
(17:40):
You know people do are like whyare?
Why don't you do that?
Speaker 2 (17:43):
you know yeah yeah, but also I don't know about you.
But you know, yes, I'm achristian and that's wonderful,
but I'm also kind of a rebel.
Like don't tell me what to do.
Like, why aren't you drinking?
Because I don't want to?
Like, why aren't you drinkingbecause I don't want to?
(18:04):
Right, yeah, like, what's theproblem?
Like because I don't want to,why are you?
Why are you drinking, you know?
Speaker 1 (18:08):
so I, I'm kind of a badass a little bit yeah, and I
think that we get to be likethat once we've established our
own um security.
Speaker 2 (18:17):
I think yeah confidence in sobriety.
Speaker 1 (18:18):
That's one of the things that doing the quote
unquote the work of emotionalsobriety allows us to build that
confidence and comfortabilityin our own skin so that we can
start to deal with like show upin places and spaces and deal
with things like people askingus that or, you know, just
become really comfortabledrinking your club soda with
(18:40):
lime or water right.
Speaker 2 (18:41):
Right, not being cocky about it, but just what's
the problem with me not drinkinglike right?
Get over it I do.
You think.
Speaker 1 (18:48):
Try it sometime the shift is happening, which is
really nice.
The younger folks, the nextgenerations, they're not really
drinking anymore as much and I Ilove that for health reasons.
And so there's this explosionof the in the non-alcoholic, and
I love that for health reasons.
And so there's this explosionof the in the non-alcoholic
industry and I love that.
You know you're seeingmocktails all over the place and
people really understanding thehealth benefits of of not
(19:09):
drinking, because alcohol reallyis a poison.
We've known that for years.
No amount of alcohol is safe touse.
The world health organizationtells us that.
So like there's.
There's plenty of evidence andscience that says no one should
consume any alcohol.
Yet we still worship it hereand flavor it up and color it
and make it all kinds of specialthings so that we can consume
(19:31):
it, and quantities that are just, you know, obsessed.
Speaker 2 (19:34):
Yeah, I think.
I think the biggest thing isthat people are just becoming
more educated, yes, the morepeople that quit drinking and
speak out about it freely andwithout shame.
And on my Instagram, a week ortwo ago, I had taken a picture
while I was filling up my gastank at the gas station.
I took a picture of the stickeryou know may contain 10 percent
(19:56):
ethanol and I put on theInstagram.
Do you realize?
Any amount of alcohol you drinkhas the same chemical compound
that you're putting in your gastank.
If you don't believe me, Google.
People don't understand.
If they don't know, they don'tknow.
Speaker 1 (20:10):
Well, that's why we have these conversations, you
know, it's just to continue toeducate and to bring to light
some and then some parts ofsobriety, because just because
we're sober doesn't mean we'rewell.
So you can stop drinking, youcan put the bottles down, but if
you don't change everything, ifyou don't really take a look at
all these parts of yourself, ifyou don't do the work to heal,
you're just going to be, youknow, kind of an angry,
(20:31):
resentful, dry drunk and that'skind of worse.
So that's why we do this.
So I'm curious, as you weredoing some of that work for
yourself with, like, your CBTand neurobiology and all kinds
of all the things that you weredoing to be well, what were some
of the things that stood out toyou as being like, really
impactful, like what were someof the learned um that we could
(20:51):
share today with everybody?
else, that maybe even they couldstart doing today well um the
therapy the different types oftherapy really helped me by
(21:11):
going.
Speaker 2 (21:12):
I'm a writer by trade .
I have journals like this is ajournal from 2014 to 16.
I have journals from back whenI was 14 years old, from the
night my dad was murderedthrough present day, and so
journaling is something thatreally helped me.
I can go back and look at whatI've been through and what I
(21:36):
wrote as a 14 year old, 18 yearold, 22 year old.
When I look at what I wrote asa 14-year-old, 18-year-old,
22-year-old, when I look at whatI've been through, I have
compassion for myself.
You know we're doing the bestwe can with the tools we have.
At the time, learning toforgive myself and forgive
others has been really key andforgive others has been really
(21:59):
key.
Learning again about alcoholhow, how it affects the brain
and body it it literally changesyour brain and it kills a lot
of your brain cells.
You're not going to make gooddecisions.
You know I took a lot of onlineprograms.
I'm sure you've heard of AnnieGrace.
This naked mind, andrew Ubermanis a newer neuroscientist
(22:20):
Uberman podcast.
I'm sure you've heard of AnnieGrace.
This Naked Mind, andrew Ubermanis a neuroscientist.
Uberman Podcast, number 86.
That was very helpful, butreally the therapy.
Going through my journals, I wastrying to use one of those apps
that counts the days, but thatwas very unhelpful to me because
(22:42):
I'm very much a type A person Iwant to be.
I want to do it perfectly everyday and when I had a slip up,
having to go back to day one,just the shame and embarrassment
that I couldn't do.
When I think of everything I'vebeen through and that I
couldn't do this one thing Icouldn't do.
When I think of everything I'vebeen through and that I
couldn't do this one thing, Icouldn't.
It's like what is wrong withyou.
(23:05):
You've done this, you've donethis, you've done this.
You, why can't you do this onething?
Right, you know, and it just itactually made me want to drink
more having to go back to that.
So I quit the counting, I quitdoing what didn't work for me,
and that's that's anotherimportant thing about
perseverance.
The more things you try, youwill learn this doesn't work.
(23:27):
This is not helpful, this isbetter, and you just keep going
and going to what's better andsooner or later it will stick.
Something.
Whatever you need will stickfor you and it will be so
wonderful every day.
You'll just be.
I don't ever want to drinkagain.
I like for real.
(23:47):
Why would no?
Speaker 1 (23:50):
yeah, I think that those um, those thought pattern
changes are so profound.
You know, I, you and I havebeen sober and living long
enough to probably experiencemany of them.
But when you're kind of in themess, when you're in the mess
and you're sitting there, you'rejust feeling hopeless and
you're trying to figure out.
And even if you are sober yousay you're sober but there's a
(24:12):
lot of change that has to happenyour life just doesn't
magically get better the minuteyou put down the bottle, you're
still left with yourself, youknow, and all the mess, and so
now we're putting into place.
you know like, okay, yes, weneed to do our trauma therapy.
That's wonderful.
But in our regular life, youknow, like, how do we get
through the day, how do we getthrough our workday, how do we?
(24:33):
Get our children.
You know those thought patternshave to be attacked right and
really really addressed throughthings like CBT and journaling
and other skills.
Speaker 2 (24:45):
Right.
Well, and like the Bible studyclass that I took, the Heart of
Addiction is the book and thenhe has an accompanying workbook.
Working with a biblicalcounselor, with those resources
for a year and a half, thatreally helped me with my faith.
And I started exercising, youknow.
I started drinking more water,I started making better food
(25:07):
choices, just it truly was likeI was raising myself again.
I was my own mother, if thatmakes any sense.
One of the therapists that I saw, she recommended that I find a
picture of myself as a child andframe it and put it on my desk.
And when something, when lifehappened, you know, unexpected
(25:32):
things happened.
That medical diagnosis happenedwith me a year and a half ago.
Instead of freaking out youknow I would I looked at that
little picture of me right here,you know, and I'm like you know
what.
You've been through a lot.
I'm here, we're going to getthrough this, it's going to be
okay.
And I learned to trust myselfagain.
(25:55):
I learned to be able to look atmyself in the mirror and not
feel ashamed, not feelembarrassed, not have fear.
What did I say?
Do right the night before.
None of that.
You can't put a price tag.
That is freedom, shelby, thatis freedom.
There's nothing like it.
Speaker 1 (26:14):
There is nothing like it.
You're so right and what youjust described is kind of how I
share about it too, and what Ihelp people do and what I've
seen people do, which is reallyjust, you know, change
everything, right.
You just relearn.
We kind of grow up again, right, because a lot of us you know,
(26:34):
most people I know or talk toyou know they started using
substances pretty early in life,you know so maybe when you're
early teens, you know, or themiddle teens or something, or
wherever you were, like it kindof stunts your growth, right.
So then you're stuck in like anemotionally at that sort of age
that you yeah, yeah, that's beenproven.
When you look at that and I havethree young people in my home.
(26:56):
They're young adults, and so Iknow what that looks like and
I'm like, oh, wow, like you cankind of see now, if you're
acting like, you know, a 15 yearold or 13 year old, but you're
really 35.
It's, it doesn't match, youknow but.
But when you're in activeaddiction, you're so self
centered and selfish and focusedon you know, it's it doesn't
match, you know but, but whenyou're in active addiction,
you're so self-centered andselfish and focused on you know
(27:19):
where's my next drink comingfrom?
And we don't know that at thetime.
You know, right, but then youknow, um, we come out of that
and we have to learn how to takecare of ourselves properly
Because, like you said, if youweren't parented that way, if
you weren't taught't taught youknow how to eat three meals a
day and how to, you know, washyour face and or or even yeah,
(27:40):
or even be allowed to expressyour feelings good, bad or ugly.
Speaker 2 (27:45):
I mean in my house.
You did not talk.
You did not talk.
We didn't even talk.
My siblings and I didn't eventalk about what we were seeing.
We, we saw and heard things.
Speaker 1 (27:56):
No, child right no child should ever have to see in
here and so when you grow uplike that and no one's like you
don't even use feeling words.
So then adults who don't knoweven what a feeling word even is
, like sadness or happy or staranger they only know what it
looks like.
You know, but they, and sothat's you have to relearn that,
(28:16):
and that's what great therapydoes is help you put
identification on, like whatfeeling words are and then how
you're experiencing them, andthen, when you experiencing it,
starting to name it and be like,ooh, that's that sounds like
you're angry and that might bethe first time somebody has ever
really made that connection.
You know, cause they, they all,they know is just explosion,
you know, understand, like, oh,when this thing happened,
(28:40):
happens I get angry, you know.
Speaker 2 (28:43):
So really, starting to learn and it's okay.
Speaker 1 (28:45):
Yeah, I mean well, the feelings are okay, our
reactions, we are responsiblefor those.
Speaker 2 (28:50):
Right, right.
Speaker 1 (28:50):
And so we do need to be mindful about learning how to
change those and become muchmore responsive, and that's a
big part of the emotionalsobriety work too.
But you know starting tounderstand those feelings.
But, like you mentioned just,you know feeding yourself
properly, starting to move yourbody, understanding that
exercise is a big part of this.
You know sleeping properly.
Speaker 2 (29:11):
Prayer, meditation, journaling, talking with others
others you know, either inperson or online.
Speaker 1 (29:19):
Online communities just support I know we have so
much access now, but then we didlike when I got sober a long
time ago and there's, so there'slike no excuse now for not
being a part of groups becausethey're, you know, accessible to
us right online or or in personor through books, and it's we
just have a lot of access tothings.
It's amazing, yeah, spiritualcomponent were you always a
(29:43):
spiritual person, like?
Were you raised with a sense ofa God or a Christian belief, or
no?
Speaker 2 (29:49):
Well, I was raised in a certain denomination.
That in a certain denominationthat I mean, I'm grateful.
I was raised with some sense ofGod, but I was not taught that
God loved me.
I was not taught to read theBible, it was more stand up, sit
down, say this, say that and donot ask questions.
(30:12):
Well, know so that.
To answer your question, no, um,in fact, when my dad was
murdered, I I quit going tochurch for many, many, many
years because I just couldn'tunder.
You know if this is because thepeople at the church, at the
service, were saying, oh, godneeded your daddy more than you
(30:32):
do.
And so, at 14, it was sotraumatic, it was horrible, it
was horrible.
But no, no, I became aChristian in my early 30s and
I've been an active, practicing,serving Christian since that
time and have been through.
(30:56):
God has been.
God is very real to me.
I don't know about anybody else, but I know him and he knows me
.
He's been with me through somany things and all the more
reason I felt so bad when Istarted realizing I was turning
to alcohol instead of him.
You know, an idol is anythingor anyone you put before God,
(31:23):
according to the Bible andbecause I believe in the Bible.
That's what the Bible says,that's what I was doing and that
broke my heart.
Speaker 1 (31:34):
And so yeah, Thank you for saying that.
Yeah, I think, when and if youdo, if spirituality and religion
are not the same things, and Ithink people get confused about
that sometimes in certainrepublic, um in um, you know
certain recovery yeah, I'm in anon-denominational church, a
tiny little church yeah, we haveto be cautious about the
language we use because, um, Imean, many people are extremely
(31:54):
spiritual but, um, maybe theydon't don't identify with like a
christian god or biblical god,and that's okay, you know like
but they have a connection tosomething outside of themselves
we talk like that, it's like thesame things.
But when you do start to spendtime getting to know your higher
power, whatever that is, andreally learning that and like
(32:15):
nurturing that relationship, Ipersonally believe and I think
the Bible really shares aboutthis in relation to the Holy
Spirit that it is revealed to us, like things are revealed to us
that we need to know.
When we are stuck in our ownself, when we are in active
addiction or struggling with alot of patterns, it's very
difficult to to hear that or seeit or receive it.
(32:38):
It's happening but we don't,we're not open to it because we
don't.
Sometimes we don't want to.
We're like you know what?
I know I'm supposed to be doingthis, this thing, but I don't
really want to.
So I'm just going to likepretend I don't know.
But when we kind of open oureyes and our ears to that
whisper of the Holy Spirit, itis such a magical experience
Because then you'll start to getthings like you know intuition,
(33:01):
or like feelings you know aboutcertain people or things in
your life.
Because that's like I feel Godreally revealing to you, like
maybe you should check in onthis thing you're doing.
Speaker 2 (33:12):
Well, right, I mean, think about it.
He made you, he, he made me.
He knows exactly what I'mcapable of.
He, he has been with me sincebefore I was even born.
He knew me in my mother's womb.
He knows everything I've beenthrough.
So I really think, shelby, ittook so long for me almost 10
(33:33):
years because I had to learn.
It's terrible, but I had tolearn.
The intellectual side had to besatisfied for me first.
That's how far away from him Ihad gotten.
Alcohol clouded me so much.
He knew everything that I wentthrough.
(33:55):
All the things I tried got meto the point where, when I came
across that Bible study andworked with that lady, I was
ready to hear the truth aboutaddiction.
Addiction is the world's wordword.
Speaker 1 (34:14):
It's really the sin of idolatry, according to the
bible and um I've actually neverheard it put that way before
and um, I, I get it.
I I see what you're saying andyou know um sometimes people
have such it hurts sometimespeople have such histories with
with church, with the church orwith certain people or families
(34:34):
that are really not what Godintended right.
So there's a lot of things thatare spiritual trauma.
Speaker 2 (34:41):
And.
Speaker 1 (34:41):
I always feel sad when I see that, like in my room
as a therapist or in myfriendships, because that's
definitely not the God I know,like that's not the way that's
people treating other people theway they think that they're
supposed to and they say it'saccording to God's will, or, but
it's not.
It's often not so,unfortunately, so many of us get
(35:05):
, you know, get damaged, youknow a lot of repair work on
finding that connection outsideof ourselves with something that
is a loving yeah, it was.
Speaker 2 (35:16):
It was such a gift when the pastor immediately shit
Paulette, I've been clean andsober.
For that was the very firstthing he said.
Not even I'm sorry, I need.
I mean just, I see God, heloves me.
He knew I needed to.
I have been carrying shame allof my life, you know, and it was
(35:39):
, it was just awesome.
It was awesome and I was goingto say something but I forgot
what it was.
So I hope it comes back.
Speaker 1 (35:48):
But so what do you think are your biggest tools now
?
Do you have like a dailypractice Just like I'm kind of
in closing as we wrap up, whatthings do you do to utilize like
every day like tools or Well,for sure, for sure.
Speaker 2 (36:04):
I start with quiet time, bible study, reading,
prayer, meditation, journaling.
I get the exercise out of theway, get it done, because if I
don't, I won't do it.
And then I just look for waysto serve.
I have an online communitycalled Spirit Led Sobriety on
Facebook.
I look for ways to serve andencourage other people and I
(36:28):
volunteer at church.
And I read a lot.
I just keep busy.
I read a lot, I just keep busy.
You know, if you don't fillyour mind with the things above,
satan is really good aboutinputting little things to
bother you and get you off track.
But what's so nice is I don'teven think anymore A drink would
(36:50):
be nice.
The thought doesn't even happen.
It doesn't even occur to me.
Speaker 1 (36:56):
Yeah, so so you mentioned your community.
Where do you like people toreach out and find you if they
want to learn more or be a partof it?
Speaker 2 (37:05):
well, I have a newsletter, spiritledsobrietycom
.
Um.
I'm on instagram at spirit ledsobriety, the number two.
Two, then Facebook.
It's a private Facebookcommunity called Spirit-Led
Sobriety.
Here's what I wanted to say.
Here's so interesting Last yearmy church offered small groups
(37:26):
for the season, the fall season.
I told them about my journey,my book, spirit-led Sobriety,
and I wanted to have a smallgroup on addiction.
They said great, so I opened itup.
Nobody joined, not one person.
But here's what's so funny thisfall, this past fall, there's
two groups on addiction.
Speaker 1 (37:46):
Oh, wow.
Speaker 2 (37:47):
So I think they were so glad.
They said you know, it tookyour courage even though nobody
signed up last year.
That just shows the shame.
It took your courage eventhough nobody signed up last
year.
That just shows the shame.
But now you have a group foraddicts and then the families of
addicts.
That would have never happenedif you hadn't stepped forward.
So you've got to just get overthe shame.
There's nothing to be ashamedabout.
(38:08):
You know what.
We're doing the best we canwith what we have at the time.
That's so right, and there'shope.
You have hope the time.
That's so right, and there'shope you have.
Speaker 1 (38:17):
hope, man Gosh.
So if this is a struggle foryou, for sure I would encourage
everybody to find the resourcesfor you, whether it's through
12-step program, whether it'sthrough, you know, find a great
therapist.
I recommend doingneurologically-based forms of
treatment like EMDR andneurofeedback.
They are phenomenal.
Find good, sound mentors.
(38:38):
You know people who are whereyou want to be, who have what
you have, and begin to makerelationships with them.
You know, find a connectionwith a higher power, whether you
choose to call them God or not,but just start to make an
attempt and feel what it feelslike to connect with something
outside of yourself a little bitmore, and it's like you're new
(38:58):
to that kind of a walk and justdon't give up.
Speaker 2 (39:01):
Do not give up.
I refuse to let you give up.
Send me an emailSpiritlesssobrietyatgmailcom.
I FaceTime with people all thetime.
I don't know them.
They don't.
Somebody needs help.
They reach out to me.
I am not going to turn somebodydown.
Speaker 1 (39:17):
I love that.
I just for your time, for yourthank you.
It's been fun.
Yeah, I'll make sure I link toall of those contacts in the
show notes below and make sureeverybody goes and buys her book
spirit led sobriety and joinsour group and just continues to
grow on this, in this walk.
It's just a beautiful beautifulthing, so I think it's so worth
(39:46):
it.
Thank you so much, shelby.
Thank you for joining me forthis week's episode of Confident
Sober Women.
If you enjoyed thisconversation, hit the subscribe
button above so you won't missany upcoming episodes.
And, hey, if you really lovedit, leave me a review.
You can learn more about theSober Freedom Inner Circle
membership atwwwshelbyjohncoachingcom.
Forward slash inner circle.
(40:07):
See you next time.
Well, hey there sober ladies.
Thank you so much for joiningme today for the Confident Sober
Women podcast.
I am so excited today to sharewith you my conversation with
Paulette Knegg.
She is a retired, award-winningeditor and author of the book
Spirit-Led Sobriety.
She is a breath of fresh air.
You're going to love her energy.
(00:21):
She's a wife and a mom and agrandmom to what she calls the
world's best grandkids and she'sliving her best life in Texas.
She shares very candidly abouther experience with trauma it's
pretty intense as well as heraddiction history and then
(00:41):
freedom from alcohol.
And she talks a lot about herspiritual program and how God
really removed the obsession andcompulsion for her to want to
drink and how she relies on thatspiritual connection every
single day to live her best life.
We talk a little bit about somepractical tools for getting in
touch with some of thatspiritual connection, but also
(01:03):
in just maintaining our health,you know, learning to take care
of ourselves, talking aboutreparenting things that we all
really need to learn, especiallywhen we are new in sobriety,
but then even when we've beenhere for a while, kind of just
continuing to refresh and growand learn.
So grab that big glass of wateror your favorite mocktail, and
enjoy this conversation withPaulette.
(01:37):
Hello and welcome to theConfident Sober Women podcast.
I'm your guide, shelby John.
I'm the mother of three, wifeto one, and sober since July 1st
2002.
As sober women, we havesomething huge in common, and
when we share our lives and ourstories with each other, we feel
that sense of belonging andconnection.
(01:57):
So we know we are no longeralone.
In this podcast, you will hearreal life talk about building
confidence and transforming yourlife beyond recovery.
So come on, let's talk.
Hey, it's me, shelby.
Have you ever wondered what'sreally happening in your brain
(02:18):
during recovery?
Are you ready to take controlof your anxiety, sleep better
and finally feel focused andconfident?
I want to introduce you to agame changer that's transforming
women's recovery remoteneurofeedback therapy.
I want you to think of this asa personal trainer for your
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It's helping you build newneuropathways right from the
(02:42):
comfort of your own home.
So if you're dealing withanxiety that just won't quit, if
you have ADHD that's makinglife chaotic or sleep issues
that leave you exhausted,neurofeedback could be your
missing piece.
It's science-backed braintraining that works with your
natural healing process, helpingyou regulate emotions and build
(03:04):
lasting confidence.
The best part is you don't needto add another appointment to
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Do you want to learn more aboutneurofeedback therapy?
You can go to my websitewwwshelbyjohncom to download my
(03:25):
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Together, we'll create the calm, confident future you that you
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That's wwwshelbyjohncom.
Take the first step towardstraining your brain for lasting
change.
Well, hey there, paulette,thank you so much for joining me
today for the Confident SoberWomen podcast.
(03:46):
I am so excited to hear yourstory and have my audience learn
a little bit more about you,and we're going to have a great
conversation.
So I'm going to turn the micover to you.
You can share a little bit moreabout that story and then we're
going to chat.
Speaker 2 (04:00):
Okay, that sounds good.
Thank you so much for having me.
So my name is Paula King.
I am almost 67 years old andfor most of my life I was a take
it or leave it drinker.
And it was in my mid 50s when Isuddenly found myself addicted
to alcohol.
And you've questioned suddenly,but in my case I had chronic
(04:25):
insomnia for eight and a halfyears and I saw a team of three
doctors for a year and a half.
I was always told you know,have a drink, it'll help you
relax and fall asleep.
So, because I didn't have adrinking problem at the time,
that's what I did, and you knowwhat it sure did help me relax
and help me fall asleep.
And before long I had a bottleof wine by my bedside rather
(04:50):
than a sleeping aid.
The wine was my sleep aid.
And I suddenly became addictedand it really scared me because
I had never had this problembefore and I had tried tried AA,
and I know AA is a very wellthought, you know program.
It's really helped a lot ofpeople, but for me it actually
(05:14):
caused more harm than good.
I tried to celebrate recovery.
I tried lots of differentonline programs and I can only
say it was a nightmare when Idiscovered the science behind
alcohol through a lot of readingand research and listening to
(05:36):
podcasts.
When I learned how science, howalcohol affects the body and
the brain, it's like no wonderpeople become addicted.
It's only doing what it'ssupposed to do and it was one of
the hardest thing I've everdone was to overcome alcohol.
(05:57):
And I'm a very spiritual personand sadly, the last place I went
to should have been the firstplace I went to, which was my
church.
But how often does the pastortalk about addiction?
Like hardly ever.
There's so much shame aroundthat.
(06:18):
But it took.
After about 10 years of tryingall kinds of therapy I tried
everything I finally called thepastor at my church and told him
what was going on and heimmediately said immediately,
paulette, I've been clean andsober for 20 years, and I mean
just the shame.
(06:38):
So he put me in touch with thebiblical counselor, you know.
So he put me in touch with abiblical counselor and we worked
together for a year and a halfon a Bible study called the
Heart of Addiction by Mark Shaw,and the premise of that book is
you transform and renew yourmind from the inside out.
That's what the Bible says todo.
(07:04):
Well, neuroplasticity is thescience part right where you
change your thoughts, your, yourbrain, literally rewires itself
.
So when I learned how the brainworks and how the bible, you
know, transform and renew yourmind, well, that is, that's
science's answer toneuroplasticity.
So when those two came togetherfor me, that's what broke me
(07:28):
free, and I have not had a drinksince around midnight, december
30th 2022.
Speaker 1 (07:34):
Wow.
So thank you so much forsharing all that and being so
vulnerable.
That is truly you know, as weknow, how it works, right.
So I was curious if you couldjust say a little bit more, as
we're kind of getting into this,like how did that work for you?
Like you said, you haven't hada drink since, so like what was
it?
You know, I know it's a process, but what was the, the catalyst
(07:58):
?
I guess if you could really putyour finger on it for kind of
giving you that freedom fromalcohol.
Speaker 2 (08:05):
I have this the part of me that loves God and the
part of me that asks a lot ofquestions.
He gave me an inquisitive mind.
I'm a retired editor by trade.
I asked a lots of questions.
I need to understand why thingsare the way they are.
I just do, that's just me, andso I learned all that I needed
(08:27):
to learn about how alcoholaffects the brain and body.
That answered, that satisfiedthe knowledge side of me, the
intellectual side of me, becauseI am a Christian and addiction
is not talked about from thepulpit.
I didn't think I could talk toanybody and you know, I just I
(08:54):
was at the end of my rope and I,like I said, I confessed to the
pastor what was going on andwhen I read, when I worked
through that Bible study and ittaught me how God looks at
alcohol, how God looks atalcohol as addiction, it's
really not addiction from God'spoint of view, it's sin, the sin
(09:15):
of idolatry.
You're going to alcohol insteadof God to meet your needs as a
Christian.
It broke my heart that that'swhat I was doing, cause I can't
argue.
That is what I was doing.
You know and I know noteverybody has the same beliefs
as I do and that's okay.
(09:36):
I'm just, this is my truth andmy experience, but it just it
cracked the code in my brain.
And, incidentally, when Istarted doing that and then I
went to those three doctors fora year and a half, I saw my
primary care doctor, a boardcertified sleep specialist, and
(09:59):
a cognitive behavior therapistthat specializes in insomnia.
For a year and a half thesethree doctors worked together as
a tag team and, like crackedthe code of my brain.
And the more I quit, the longerI stayed away from alcohol,
obviously, the more your brainis going to regenerate and get
new cells and you're just goingto think more clearly.
(10:21):
You're going to.
I ended up sleeping so muchbetter.
If you don't sleep well, youdon't make good decisions.
You've got to be able to sleep.
Speaker 1 (10:30):
That's so true.
I mean, sleep deprivation isreally dangerous.
Honestly.
They've done lots of researchand studies on that, but it can
create, it just can make youfeel literally crazy, you know
if it goes on for too long.
So you're right.
And also that is the time,excuse me, we know from science
where the brain is kind of doingthat regenerative work it's
(10:52):
healing, you know, in our sleepis when it's getting that kind
of regrowth that kind ofregrowth and but you know, I
also, I like I said I I foughtthis for almost 10 years and I
did.
Speaker 2 (11:07):
I listened to a lot of podcasts.
I learned about different typesof therapy EMDR therapy was
really helpful to me.
Of course.
Therapy, cognitive behaviortherapy.
I come from a reallytrauma-based childhood.
My first exposure to alcoholwas when my drunk uncle shot and
(11:30):
killed my dad in cold bloodwhen I was 14 years old and my
sister came in from out of townto pick me up and she gave me
Jack Daniels straight to calm medown, because you know what,
that's all she knew to do.
And my mom, you know she had alot of drinking problems and
(11:53):
when you grow up with that,that's just what you're modeled.
I wasn't modeled coping skills,I did.
I had to learn how to parentmyself, basically.
Speaker 1 (12:06):
Right.
I mean that's a lot of the workthat we do in in therapy.
Right Is to re is to.
I help people all the time andlearn how to reparent themselves
.
You know, yes, I do EMDRtherapy and we work on the
trauma.
We heal the brain at themolecular level from those
traumas.
But then we also use goodcognitive behavioral skills and
(12:26):
insight work to help peoplereparent themselves, to give
those parts of ourselves thatdidn't get what they needed when
they were younger, what theyneed today, and and kind of
teaching them how to do that,and that's really helpful.
Um, so thank you for sharing alittle bit more about your
history.
I think that's really importantfor people to know too, because
we know from the research toothat addiction doesn't just come
from nowhere.
You know it comes from traumaand and we all have this right
(12:50):
If you've been a human on theearth for any length of time,
you have trauma and it'sdifferent for all of us.
You know it's either a capitalT trauma or you know the big
sort of things everybody thinksabout but we all have the
lowercase T traumas.
You know, sometimes it's justthings like words people have
said, or witnessing certainthings or living in certain
(13:11):
kinds of environments, so it'snot always the dramatic kinds
that leave a big stain on ourbrain.
But even the lowercase Ttraumas can lead to those
negative beliefs about ourselfand then create um neuropathways
and um issues related todopamine and serotonin that want
us to utilize things like yeah,and you know I was really, I
(13:33):
was really good at uh, givingtrauma to myself.
Speaker 2 (13:36):
You know I almost died, uh, through a horrible
accident at our lake house bymyself.
I drank.
I drank Jack Daniels straight.
I thought at five in theafternoon it'd be nice time to
have a have a drink, reading myKindle, looking at the lake.
Well then I got tired and tookan Ambien and you don't mix Jack
(13:58):
Daniel and Ambien and I nearlybled to death.
It was awful.
I I am a true miracle,according to the doctor.
And yeah, you would think thatexperience would have led me to
quit like the next day, butsadly it was.
It took a few more years.
(14:18):
But you know, to anybody that'slistening, that is not yet a
confident, sober woman thatneeds help.
I just encourage you to notgive up on yourself.
If you give up on yourself,well then you're not going to
make it.
You know I have one of my oldersisters fell.
(14:40):
She drank too much Three yearsago.
She drank too much, fell, hither head and bled to death.
My other sisters found her body.
Like you don't want that tohappen.
So no matter what you're goingthrough, keep going through it.
You will get there you willfind.
Speaker 1 (14:59):
Whatever the matching click thing is for you, it will
happen, but you've got to keepgoing you know, holly Whitaker
is the one that comes to my mindright now and plenty of others
who have, you know, writtenwhole books on on all kinds of
(15:25):
stuff about their story, plusaddiction and and shared how
there was like that kind of push, pull right.
You know they would startsomething maybe like, okay, well
, now I'm going to try to startdoing yoga, okay, see if that
helps, and like they would get alittle bit better or whatever
for a little while, but then itdidn't really stop the drinking,
but like it helped them get alittle better, and then they'd
try to start doing somethingelse.
You know a little bit of thisand a little bit of that, and so
you know, um, not everybody's afirst nighter, you know, and,
(15:48):
like you mentioned, some peoplego to 12 step programs.
That's how I got sober, causethat's the only thing we had and
, um, it worked for me and Ithink it's great.
But then you do need to layer ona lot of other things.
Some people use church, somepeople use, um, you know, other
therapists or coaches, thingslike that, and and that's
wonderful, it's, but just keepgoing right, you know, yeah,
yeah, because and that's why weshare our stories and it's one
(16:08):
of the reasons why I do thispodcast is a to help people grow
in their emotional sobriety,for sure, but also just show
people that there's always hope.
There is hope on the other sideof this life.
Speaker 2 (16:19):
And it's so worth it.
Speaker 1 (16:20):
It's so worth it.
You know that pain andawfulness, that we live in an
active addiction is sotumultuous and yucky and create
so much wreckage and destroysfamilies, but there's so much
hope.
Speaker 2 (16:33):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (16:33):
On the other side.
Speaker 2 (16:34):
Yeah, you know, about a year and a half ago I was met
with an unexpected healthdiagnosis and it's like, hmm,
what's up with this?
And I'm dealing with it.
I'm just so grateful that I'mnot drinking, Because if I had
not been able to successfullyput it down and keep it down, I
(16:58):
may not be alive today.
Between what's going on with myhealth and then drinking, so
the fact that I'm able toovercome alcohol for good, I
feel like Shelby I can do, I can, I can, I can do anything I
really can.
That was the hardest thing I'veever done in my life.
Speaker 1 (17:19):
I say that too.
I always say that too.
And so in a society thatworships alcohol, you know, a
society that where you can'teven go to like a first birthday
party.
Kids sporting event you know,alcohol and it's everywhere,
it's all the time, it's all, andit's the only drug that
anybody's ever like.
Why are thing that you do?
(17:40):
You know people do are like whyare?
Why don't you do that?
Speaker 2 (17:43):
you know yeah yeah, but also I don't know about you.
But you know, yes, I'm achristian and that's wonderful,
but I'm also kind of a rebel.
Like don't tell me what to do.
Like, why aren't you drinking?
Because I don't want to?
Like, why aren't you drinkingbecause I don't want to?
(18:04):
Right, yeah, like, what's theproblem?
Like because I don't want to,why are you?
Why are you drinking, you know?
Speaker 1 (18:08):
so I, I'm kind of a badass a little bit yeah, and I
think that we get to be likethat once we've established our
own um security.
Speaker 2 (18:17):
I think yeah confidence in sobriety.
Speaker 1 (18:18):
That's one of the things that doing the quote
unquote the work of emotionalsobriety allows us to build that
confidence and comfortabilityin our own skin so that we can
start to deal with like show upin places and spaces and deal
with things like people askingus that or, you know, just
become really comfortabledrinking your club soda with
(18:40):
lime or water right.
Speaker 2 (18:41):
Right, not being cocky about it, but just what's
the problem with me not drinkinglike right?
Get over it I do.
You think.
Speaker 1 (18:48):
Try it sometime the shift is happening, which is
really nice.
The younger folks, the nextgenerations, they're not really
drinking anymore as much and I Ilove that for health reasons.
And so there's this explosionof the in the non-alcoholic, and
I love that for health reasons.
And so there's this explosionof the in the non-alcoholic
industry and I love that.
You know you're seeingmocktails all over the place and
people really understanding thehealth benefits of of not
(19:09):
drinking, because alcohol reallyis a poison.
We've known that for years.
No amount of alcohol is safe touse.
The world health organizationtells us that.
So like there's.
There's plenty of evidence andscience that says no one should
consume any alcohol.
Yet we still worship it hereand flavor it up and color it
and make it all kinds of specialthings so that we can consume
(19:31):
it, and quantities that are just, you know, obsessed.
Speaker 2 (19:34):
Yeah, I think.
I think the biggest thing isthat people are just becoming
more educated, yes, the morepeople that quit drinking and
speak out about it freely andwithout shame.
And on my Instagram, a week ortwo ago, I had taken a picture
while I was filling up my gastank at the gas station.
I took a picture of the stickeryou know may contain 10 percent
(19:56):
ethanol and I put on theInstagram.
Do you realize?
Any amount of alcohol you drinkhas the same chemical compound
that you're putting in your gastank.
If you don't believe me, Google.
People don't understand.
If they don't know, they don'tknow.
Speaker 1 (20:10):
Well, that's why we have these conversations, you
know, it's just to continue toeducate and to bring to light
some and then some parts ofsobriety, because just because
we're sober doesn't mean we'rewell.
So you can stop drinking, youcan put the bottles down, but if
you don't change everything, ifyou don't really take a look at
all these parts of yourself, ifyou don't do the work to heal,
you're just going to be, youknow, kind of an angry,
(20:31):
resentful, dry drunk and that'skind of worse.
So that's why we do this.
So I'm curious, as you weredoing some of that work for
yourself with, like, your CBTand neurobiology and all kinds
of all the things that you weredoing to be well, what were some
of the things that stood out toyou as being like, really
impactful, like what were someof the learned um that we could
(20:51):
share today with everybody?
else, that maybe even they couldstart doing today well um the
therapy the different types oftherapy really helped me by
(21:11):
going.
Speaker 2 (21:12):
I'm a writer by trade .
I have journals like this is ajournal from 2014 to 16.
I have journals from back whenI was 14 years old, from the
night my dad was murderedthrough present day, and so
journaling is something thatreally helped me.
I can go back and look at whatI've been through and what I
(21:36):
wrote as a 14 year old, 18 yearold, 22 year old.
When I look at what I wrote asa 14-year-old, 18-year-old,
22-year-old, when I look at whatI've been through, I have
compassion for myself.
You know we're doing the bestwe can with the tools we have.
At the time, learning toforgive myself and forgive
others has been really key andforgive others has been really
(21:59):
key.
Learning again about alcoholhow, how it affects the brain
and body it it literally changesyour brain and it kills a lot
of your brain cells.
You're not going to make gooddecisions.
You know I took a lot of onlineprograms.
I'm sure you've heard of AnnieGrace.
This naked mind, andrew Ubermanis a newer neuroscientist
(22:20):
Uberman podcast.
I'm sure you've heard of AnnieGrace.
This Naked Mind, andrew Ubermanis a neuroscientist.
Uberman Podcast, number 86.
That was very helpful, butreally the therapy.
Going through my journals, I wastrying to use one of those apps
that counts the days, but thatwas very unhelpful to me because
(22:42):
I'm very much a type A person Iwant to be.
I want to do it perfectly everyday and when I had a slip up,
having to go back to day one,just the shame and embarrassment
that I couldn't do.
When I think of everything I'vebeen through and that I
couldn't do this one thing Icouldn't do.
When I think of everything I'vebeen through and that I
couldn't do this one thing, Icouldn't.
It's like what is wrong withyou.
(23:05):
You've done this, you've donethis, you've done this.
You, why can't you do this onething?
Right, you know, and it just itactually made me want to drink
more having to go back to that.
So I quit the counting, I quitdoing what didn't work for me,
and that's that's anotherimportant thing about
perseverance.
The more things you try, youwill learn this doesn't work.
(23:27):
This is not helpful, this isbetter, and you just keep going
and going to what's better andsooner or later it will stick.
Something.
Whatever you need will stickfor you and it will be so
wonderful every day.
You'll just be.
I don't ever want to drinkagain.
I like for real.
(23:47):
Why would no?
Speaker 1 (23:50):
yeah, I think that those um, those thought pattern
changes are so profound.
You know, I, you and I havebeen sober and living long
enough to probably experiencemany of them.
But when you're kind of in themess, when you're in the mess
and you're sitting there, you'rejust feeling hopeless and
you're trying to figure out.
And even if you are sober yousay you're sober but there's a
(24:12):
lot of change that has to happenyour life just doesn't
magically get better the minuteyou put down the bottle, you're
still left with yourself, youknow, and all the mess, and so
now we're putting into place.
you know like, okay, yes, weneed to do our trauma therapy.
That's wonderful.
But in our regular life, youknow, like, how do we get
through the day, how do we getthrough our workday, how do we?
(24:33):
Get our children.
You know those thought patternshave to be attacked right and
really really addressed throughthings like CBT and journaling
and other skills.
Speaker 2 (24:45):
Right.
Well, and like the Bible studyclass that I took, the Heart of
Addiction is the book and thenhe has an accompanying workbook.
Working with a biblicalcounselor, with those resources
for a year and a half, thatreally helped me with my faith.
And I started exercising, youknow.
I started drinking more water,I started making better food
(25:07):
choices, just it truly was likeI was raising myself again.
I was my own mother, if thatmakes any sense.
One of the therapists that I saw, she recommended that I find a
picture of myself as a child andframe it and put it on my desk.
And when something, when lifehappened, you know, unexpected
(25:32):
things happened.
That medical diagnosis happenedwith me a year and a half ago.
Instead of freaking out youknow I would I looked at that
little picture of me right here,you know, and I'm like you know
what.
You've been through a lot.
I'm here, we're going to getthrough this, it's going to be
okay.
And I learned to trust myselfagain.
(25:55):
I learned to be able to look atmyself in the mirror and not
feel ashamed, not feelembarrassed, not have fear.
What did I say?
Do right the night before.
None of that.
You can't put a price tag.
That is freedom, shelby, thatis freedom.
There's nothing like it.
Speaker 1 (26:14):
There is nothing like it.
You're so right and what youjust described is kind of how I
share about it too, and what Ihelp people do and what I've
seen people do, which is reallyjust, you know, change
everything, right.
You just relearn.
We kind of grow up again, right, because a lot of us you know,
(26:34):
most people I know or talk toyou know they started using
substances pretty early in life,you know so maybe when you're
early teens, you know, or themiddle teens or something, or
wherever you were, like it kindof stunts your growth, right.
So then you're stuck in like anemotionally at that sort of age
that you yeah, yeah, that's beenproven.
When you look at that and I havethree young people in my home.
(26:56):
They're young adults, and so Iknow what that looks like and
I'm like, oh, wow, like you cankind of see now, if you're
acting like, you know, a 15 yearold or 13 year old, but you're
really 35.
It's, it doesn't match, youknow but.
But when you're in activeaddiction, you're so self
centered and selfish and focusedon you know, it's it doesn't
match, you know but, but whenyou're in active addiction,
you're so self-centered andselfish and focused on you know
(27:19):
where's my next drink comingfrom?
And we don't know that at thetime.
You know, right, but then youknow, um, we come out of that
and we have to learn how to takecare of ourselves properly
Because, like you said, if youweren't parented that way, if
you weren't taught't taught youknow how to eat three meals a
day and how to, you know, washyour face and or or even yeah,
(27:40):
or even be allowed to expressyour feelings good, bad or ugly.
Speaker 2 (27:45):
I mean in my house.
You did not talk.
You did not talk.
We didn't even talk.
My siblings and I didn't eventalk about what we were seeing.
We, we saw and heard things.
Speaker 1 (27:56):
No, child right no child should ever have to see in
here and so when you grow uplike that and no one's like you
don't even use feeling words.
So then adults who don't knoweven what a feeling word even is
, like sadness or happy or staranger they only know what it
looks like.
You know, but they, and sothat's you have to relearn that,
(28:16):
and that's what great therapydoes is help you put
identification on, like whatfeeling words are and then how
you're experiencing them, andthen, when you experiencing it,
starting to name it and be like,ooh, that's that sounds like
you're angry and that might bethe first time somebody has ever
really made that connection.
You know, cause they, they all,they know is just explosion,
you know, understand, like, oh,when this thing happened,
(28:40):
happens I get angry, you know.
Speaker 2 (28:43):
So really, starting to learn and it's okay.
Speaker 1 (28:45):
Yeah, I mean well, the feelings are okay, our
reactions, we are responsiblefor those.
Speaker 2 (28:50):
Right, right.
Speaker 1 (28:50):
And so we do need to be mindful about learning how to
change those and become muchmore responsive, and that's a
big part of the emotionalsobriety work too.
But you know starting tounderstand those feelings.
But, like you mentioned just,you know feeding yourself
properly, starting to move yourbody, understanding that
exercise is a big part of this.
You know sleeping properly.
Speaker 2 (29:11):
Prayer, meditation, journaling, talking with others
others you know, either inperson or online.
Speaker 1 (29:19):
Online communities just support I know we have so
much access now, but then we didlike when I got sober a long
time ago and there's, so there'slike no excuse now for not
being a part of groups becausethey're, you know, accessible to
us right online or or in personor through books, and it's we
just have a lot of access tothings.
It's amazing, yeah, spiritualcomponent were you always a
(29:43):
spiritual person, like?
Were you raised with a sense ofa God or a Christian belief, or
no?
Speaker 2 (29:49):
Well, I was raised in a certain denomination.
That in a certain denominationthat I mean, I'm grateful.
I was raised with some sense ofGod, but I was not taught that
God loved me.
I was not taught to read theBible, it was more stand up, sit
down, say this, say that and donot ask questions.
(30:12):
Well, know so that.
To answer your question, no, um,in fact, when my dad was
murdered, I I quit going tochurch for many, many, many
years because I just couldn'tunder.
You know if this is because thepeople at the church, at the
service, were saying, oh, godneeded your daddy more than you
(30:32):
do.
And so, at 14, it was sotraumatic, it was horrible, it
was horrible.
But no, no, I became aChristian in my early 30s and
I've been an active, practicing,serving Christian since that
time and have been through.
(30:56):
God has been.
God is very real to me.
I don't know about anybody else, but I know him and he knows me
.
He's been with me through somany things and all the more
reason I felt so bad when Istarted realizing I was turning
to alcohol instead of him.
You know, an idol is anythingor anyone you put before God,
(31:23):
according to the Bible andbecause I believe in the Bible.
That's what the Bible says,that's what I was doing and that
broke my heart.
Speaker 1 (31:34):
And so yeah, Thank you for saying that.
Yeah, I think, when and if youdo, if spirituality and religion
are not the same things, and Ithink people get confused about
that sometimes in certainrepublic, um in um, you know
certain recovery yeah, I'm in anon-denominational church, a
tiny little church yeah, we haveto be cautious about the
language we use because, um, Imean, many people are extremely
(31:54):
spiritual but, um, maybe theydon't don't identify with like a
christian god or biblical god,and that's okay, you know like
but they have a connection tosomething outside of themselves
we talk like that, it's like thesame things.
But when you do start to spendtime getting to know your higher
power, whatever that is, andreally learning that and like
(32:15):
nurturing that relationship, Ipersonally believe and I think
the Bible really shares aboutthis in relation to the Holy
Spirit that it is revealed to us, like things are revealed to us
that we need to know.
When we are stuck in our ownself, when we are in active
addiction or struggling with alot of patterns, it's very
difficult to to hear that or seeit or receive it.
(32:38):
It's happening but we don't,we're not open to it because we
don't.
Sometimes we don't want to.
We're like you know what?
I know I'm supposed to be doingthis, this thing, but I don't
really want to.
So I'm just going to likepretend I don't know.
But when we kind of open oureyes and our ears to that
whisper of the Holy Spirit, itis such a magical experience
Because then you'll start to getthings like you know intuition,
(33:01):
or like feelings you know aboutcertain people or things in
your life.
Because that's like I feel Godreally revealing to you, like
maybe you should check in onthis thing you're doing.
Speaker 2 (33:12):
Well, right, I mean, think about it.
He made you, he, he made me.
He knows exactly what I'mcapable of.
He, he has been with me sincebefore I was even born.
He knew me in my mother's womb.
He knows everything I've beenthrough.
So I really think, shelby, ittook so long for me almost 10
(33:33):
years because I had to learn.
It's terrible, but I had tolearn.
The intellectual side had to besatisfied for me first.
That's how far away from him Ihad gotten.
Alcohol clouded me so much.
He knew everything that I wentthrough.
(33:55):
All the things I tried got meto the point where, when I came
across that Bible study andworked with that lady, I was
ready to hear the truth aboutaddiction.
Addiction is the world's wordword.
Speaker 1 (34:14):
It's really the sin of idolatry, according to the
bible and um I've actually neverheard it put that way before
and um, I, I get it.
I I see what you're saying andyou know um sometimes people
have such it hurts sometimespeople have such histories with
with church, with the church orwith certain people or families
(34:34):
that are really not what Godintended right.
So there's a lot of things thatare spiritual trauma.
Speaker 2 (34:41):
And.
Speaker 1 (34:41):
I always feel sad when I see that, like in my room
as a therapist or in myfriendships, because that's
definitely not the God I know,like that's not the way that's
people treating other people theway they think that they're
supposed to and they say it'saccording to God's will, or, but
it's not.
It's often not so,unfortunately, so many of us get
(35:05):
, you know, get damaged, youknow a lot of repair work on
finding that connection outsideof ourselves with something that
is a loving yeah, it was.
Speaker 2 (35:16):
It was such a gift when the pastor immediately shit
Paulette, I've been clean andsober.
For that was the very firstthing he said.
Not even I'm sorry, I need.
I mean just, I see God, heloves me.
He knew I needed to.
I have been carrying shame allof my life, you know, and it was
(35:39):
, it was just awesome.
It was awesome and I was goingto say something but I forgot
what it was.
So I hope it comes back.
Speaker 1 (35:48):
But so what do you think are your biggest tools now
?
Do you have like a dailypractice Just like I'm kind of
in closing as we wrap up, whatthings do you do to utilize like
every day like tools or Well,for sure, for sure.
Speaker 2 (36:04):
I start with quiet time, bible study, reading,
prayer, meditation, journaling.
I get the exercise out of theway, get it done, because if I
don't, I won't do it.
And then I just look for waysto serve.
I have an online communitycalled Spirit Led Sobriety on
Facebook.
I look for ways to serve andencourage other people and I
(36:28):
volunteer at church.
And I read a lot.
I just keep busy.
I read a lot, I just keep busy.
You know, if you don't fillyour mind with the things above,
satan is really good aboutinputting little things to
bother you and get you off track.
But what's so nice is I don'teven think anymore A drink would
(36:50):
be nice.
The thought doesn't even happen.
It doesn't even occur to me.
Speaker 1 (36:56):
Yeah, so so you mentioned your community.
Where do you like people toreach out and find you if they
want to learn more or be a partof it?
Speaker 2 (37:05):
well, I have a newsletter, spiritledsobrietycom
.
Um.
I'm on instagram at spirit ledsobriety, the number two.
Two, then Facebook.
It's a private Facebookcommunity called Spirit-Led
Sobriety.
Here's what I wanted to say.
Here's so interesting Last yearmy church offered small groups
(37:26):
for the season, the fall season.
I told them about my journey,my book, spirit-led Sobriety,
and I wanted to have a smallgroup on addiction.
They said great, so I opened itup.
Nobody joined, not one person.
But here's what's so funny thisfall, this past fall, there's
two groups on addiction.
Speaker 1 (37:46):
Oh, wow.
Speaker 2 (37:47):
So I think they were so glad.
They said you know, it tookyour courage even though nobody
signed up last year.
That just shows the shame.
It took your courage eventhough nobody signed up last
year.
That just shows the shame.
But now you have a group foraddicts and then the families of
addicts.
That would have never happenedif you hadn't stepped forward.
So you've got to just get overthe shame.
There's nothing to be ashamedabout.
(38:08):
You know what.
We're doing the best we canwith what we have at the time.
That's so right, and there'shope.
You have hope the time.
That's so right, and there'shope you have.
Speaker 1 (38:17):
hope, man Gosh.
So if this is a struggle foryou, for sure I would encourage
everybody to find the resourcesfor you, whether it's through
12-step program, whether it'sthrough, you know, find a great
therapist.
I recommend doingneurologically-based forms of
treatment like EMDR andneurofeedback.
They are phenomenal.
Find good, sound mentors.
(38:38):
You know people who are whereyou want to be, who have what
you have, and begin to makerelationships with them.
You know, find a connectionwith a higher power, whether you
choose to call them God or not,but just start to make an
attempt and feel what it feelslike to connect with something
outside of yourself a little bitmore, and it's like you're new
(38:58):
to that kind of a walk and justdon't give up.
Speaker 2 (39:01):
Do not give up.
I refuse to let you give up.
Send me an emailSpiritlesssobrietyatgmailcom.
I FaceTime with people all thetime.
I don't know them.
They don't.
Somebody needs help.
They reach out to me.
I am not going to turn somebodydown.
Speaker 1 (39:17):
I love that.
I just for your time, for yourthank you.
It's been fun.
Yeah, I'll make sure I link toall of those contacts in the
show notes below and make sureeverybody goes and buys her book
spirit led sobriety and joinsour group and just continues to
grow on this, in this walk.
It's just a beautiful beautifulthing, so I think it's so worth
(39:46):
it.
Thank you so much, shelby.
Thank you for joining me forthis week's episode of Confident
Sober Women.
If you enjoyed thisconversation, hit the subscribe
button above so you won't missany upcoming episodes.
And, hey, if you really lovedit, leave me a review.
You can learn more about theSober Freedom Inner Circle
membership atwwwshelbyjohncoachingcom.
Forward slash inner circle.
(40:07):
See you next time.
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