March 11, 2025 • 49 mins
Christine Soja's recovery journey began not in a treatment center but at her kitchen table with a sketch pad and pen. As a stay-at-home mom of two young boys, she found herself drowning in an identity crisis, using alcohol as "self-care" while silently wondering, "Who am I? How did I get here?"
When Christine discovered a 100-day drawing challenge on Instagram just as she decided to quit drinking, something unexpected happened. What started as a simple commitment to draw daily for 100 consecutive days became the cornerstone of her sobriety. By establishing a creative practice with clear parameters—one notebook, one set of pens, just 10 minutes daily—Christine accidentally created a powerful recovery tool that filled the time and space previously occupied by alcohol.
The neurological impact was profound. Her daily creative practice delivered small, sustainable dopamine hits that helped rewire her brain away from substance dependence patterns. More importantly, the consistency built something she'd been missing: trust in herself. "I was shocked at the end that I actually did it," she shares, revealing how each completed drawing reinforced her ability to keep promises to herself—a fundamental skill in recovery.
Beyond the neurological benefits, Christine's creative journey connected her with a community that offered new ways to relate without alcohol. She discovered parts of herself long buried under motherhood's demands and society's expectations. "I started to see myself—proof of my own life right there on paper," she explains, capturing the existential healing that creative expression offers.
Now a SheRecovers coach and counselor at a Seattle-based recovery center, Christine facilitates women's intensive outpatient programs incorporating art for emotional and spiritual growth. Her 7-day creative challenges and 100-day sobriety programs help others discover what she learned firsthand—that creativity isn't about becoming a professional artist but about expressing yourself authentically, quieting your inner critic, and building confidence that extends far beyond art into every area of recovery.
Connect With Christine at www.alchemy-recovery.net to learn how small, consistent creative practices can become the foundation for lasting change.
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And if you haven't read my memoir, grab a copy today and maybe a second one for a friend. There is so much hope in recovery, and I shared my story so raw and vulnerable so that others would know they aren't alone and that there is a way to live well, manage relationships, parent your kids, and have a healthy body, all while staying sober. Grab a copy of Recovering in Recovery: The Life-Changing Joy of Sobriety wherever books are sold.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
Well, hey there, sober ladies, Thank you so much
for joining me today for theConfident Sober Women podcast.
I am so excited today because Ijust played a role in her
recovery path.
It's just so refreshing.
I don't know.
(00:32):
It's different than some of ourtypical stories, or at least
the ones I'm typically exposedto.
She's also a SheRecovers coachand she's a recovering public
high school teacher and she'sthe mother of two teenage boys.
She works as a recovery coachand a counselor at the Positive
Alternative, which is aSeattle-based recovery center,
(00:52):
and while she's there, shefacilitates women's intensive
outpatient program and sheutilizes art as a huge part of
their emotional and spiritualgrowth.
So creativity really has beenat the heart of her recovery and
creative expression shebelieves is a human right and it
does come through as we'retalking.
And what I love about ourconversation is we are kind of
(01:15):
firing both of us on a lot ofcylinders right, and our neurons
are just kind of popping offall over the place.
But throughout the conversationboth of us I think we're making
some really big connections.
I mean I kind of went off alittle bit on a clinical tirade
for a hot second, but it wasbecause I was starting to make
these connections about thepathways that we're on when we
(01:38):
do something like this, when westep into maybe like a challenge
or a class or something.
Well, when we're doing theclass, it seems like we're there
for this specific objective.
But along the same pathway isour own personal development and
growth.
Now, we don't usually becomeaware of that necessarily at the
(01:58):
at the conscious level, meaningwe're not like walking and
being like while I'm taking thisbaking class, I am going to be
building confidence andself-esteem.
That's usually not theforefront, but it's happening at
the same time.
And while we were talking I wasreally making these connections
for myself, like it's not evenabout the thing you're doing.
(02:19):
I mean, the thing you're doingcan be really cool but at the
same time you're building thatconfidence because you were
learning to be reallyuncomfortable with something
that's maybe hard or outsideyour comfort zone and then doing
it anyway.
So you're learning to continuethrough discomfort despite the
fact that you're you don't likethat.
(02:40):
And that way the internalvoices and the internal parts of
yourself are also being kind oftalked to, soothed or even like
kicked out throughout thatpathway.
As you know, as you get furtheralong those that part of you
(03:06):
that was like being verycritical or negative that always
showed up might start todissipate a little bit because
you've been consistently doingthe same thing over time and now
your brain is changing and itis really, really cool.
So I want you to grab that bigglass of water or maybe your
favorite mocktail and join mefor this incredible conversation
with Christine, and make sureyou go to our website, follow
(03:27):
her on socials and give her somelove.
Thanks, hello and welcome to theConfident Sober Women podcast.
I'm your guide, shelby John.
I'm the mother of three, wifeto one and sober since July 1st
(03:51):
2002.
As sober women, we havesomething huge in common, and
when we share our lives and ourstories with each other, we feel
that sense of belonging andconnection.
So we know we are no longeralone.
In this podcast, you will hearreal life talk about building
confidence and transforming yourlife beyond recovery.
(04:12):
So come on, let's talk.
Hey, it's me, shelby.
Have you ever wondered what'sreally happening in your brain
during recovery?
Are you ready to take controlof your anxiety, sleep better
and finally feel focused andconfident?
I want to introduce you to agame changer that's transforming
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Well, hey there, christine.
Thank you so much for joiningme today for the Confident Sober
Women podcast.
I am so excited to share youwith my audience and talk about
all things around creativity andsobriety, so I'm going to turn
the mic over to you and let youshare a little bit more about
(06:02):
your story, and then we're goingto talk.
Speaker 2 (06:08):
Okay, thank you, shelby.
Thank you for having me.
It's so great to be here andI've been looking forward to
this conversation.
Yeah, my name is Christine Sojaand we connected through she
Recovers, which has been areally big part of my recovery
journey as well, and one of theone of the tenants of she
Recovers is that we all createour own pathways, patchworks of
recovery, which really resonateswith me because that's been my
(06:32):
experience.
So I got sober, I quit drinkingin 2018, but I think I have
been in.
I was in recovery kind ofdefinitely before that, um, and
a big part for me of why I um,you know, kind of I could talk
(06:54):
about what was leading up towhat, my what was going on in my
life at that time.
But I was, um, a stay at homemom.
I had two small kids, two boys,two years apart, and that is
when I my substance use reallykind of built up.
(07:14):
It started to become a part ofmy like quote unquote self care
and that was something that, inthe process of you know it, kind
of it works until it doesn'twork Right, and it was a big
part of my socializing and a bigpart of my identity really.
But I started to feel like Ihad, I was lost, like, where am
(07:38):
I, who am I anymore?
Even I had this really major, afew, few major life transitions
, right, putting a pause on myteaching career, becoming I had.
I got married the year before Igot pregnant, had two small
kids.
I just I was like who am I?
How did I get here?
Who am I?
(07:58):
What's going on?
Um, and the, the what kind ofhelped me to?
I feel like it was even just athread that I was able to pull
on.
Um, for me, it started out withwriting, um, and I came across
Julia Cameron's book, um, theartist's way, just kind of by
(08:19):
chance, how these things happen,Right, and um, I started
writing daily and in thatwriting I kind of started to see
where I was and who I was andwhat I was thinking about and
that started to kind of buildinto, you know, a creative
(08:42):
practice that I still turn totoday and I teach today and I
can talk more about that too.
But I think that the reallyimportant thing for me was
creating some space and sometime, even if it was five
minutes, to just.
You know, the thing with thewith Julia Cameron's morning
(09:06):
pages they're called, is thatyou write it out by hand, right?
So it's like you're using yourown hands and your own writing
to just connect with yourselfand it kind of begins that
dialogue.
And coincidentally if youbelieve in coincidence right
after I decided that I needed tostep away from alcohol because
(09:30):
it was just it was I wasn'tfeeling well, I was depressed,
really, and knew that that was afactor, like that was something
I could do is like eliminatealcohol and see how that goes.
Um, and I actually wrote aseries of blog posts about what
was kind of leading up to thatthat folks can read if they want
to.
But I heard about this 100 dayproject and it was a project on
(09:58):
Instagram where you would pick asome type of creativity, would
pick a some type of creativity,something.
Whatever you wanted to do wascompletely open, but you would
share every day what you haddone.
And so as soon as I heard aboutthat, I was like, oh, I want to
(10:20):
do that.
I want to do that because I hadbeen writing.
But I really had this part ofme that wanted to to be an
artist, say, or a visual artist,or play with colors and play
with materials, and I was kindof a collector of these things,
right.
I had colored pencils and I hadcool markers and I had these
sketchbooks and I was likegathering all this stuff, but
then I didn't really know whatto do with it, right?
(10:41):
There was kind of this gapbetween what I wanted to do and
what I knew how to do.
And so the 100 day project Istarted an instagram account and
I decided I wanted to dodrawing, because drawing was an
area that I felt like was reallybeyond me, but something that I
thought was so cool whensomebody can render something on
(11:01):
a page with just a pencil,right, or a pen or something so
simple.
And I learned a lot in thatchallenge.
I found a community of otherpeople who were on the same kind
of mission, even people locallyin my neighborhood, which
really surprised me, and Ishocked myself by actually
(11:24):
completing 100 days and notmissing a day.
Wow, and I traveled during thattime.
I did things, so it was alsoreally important.
I think something I learnedthere is how important it is to
set yourself up with daily,realistic, achievable goals,
right.
So it was like I'm going todraw a picture from a magazine.
(11:46):
I'm going to use this onenotebook.
I'm going to use this set ofpens.
You know I can take them withme wherever I'm going.
I'm going to, I'm going tospend 10 minutes on it, maybe,
maybe less Right.
And then I found that often itwas like the last thing I would
do before I went to bed at nightwould be like, oh, I haven't
done that thing yet, but I didit, and so I learned about
(12:10):
myself too.
Like you know, that is somethingthese, these small daily
actions create huge change, andthat that was something I could
commit to, because some peoplelove to like sign up for a
marathon, marathon, say, andthat'll motivate me to to get in
shape, to do it.
But for me, these huge thingsjust make me want to
(12:31):
procrastinate and procrastinateand procrastinate.
It becomes this whole thing.
So, um, yeah, that was, thatwas kind of the intro for me to
how to grow a skill, um, andconnect with.
And when I look back now atthose, I had 100 drawings right,
which is is a body of work,really A whole book, yeah, and I
(12:56):
did all I did like pictures ofpeople, and so now when I look
at those pictures too, I can, Ican kind of see like parts of
myself in them too, like why Iwas drawn to those particular
images.
Speaker 1 (13:08):
Yeah, oh my gosh, thank you so much, christine,
for sharing your story in thatway.
I really like so much of my my,my, all my neurons are firing
as I was listening to you CauseI could, just, I have like so
much to say about all the thingsthat you're saying, and so I
really I want to try to reel itin a little bit and make sure
(13:32):
that we stay on track.
But one of the things that,first off, I want to say is you
know, when you were talkingabout even when your drinking
was ramping up, I mean, you'reobviously a very busy mom.
I get it.
I think most probably many ofthe women that are in our
community are moms as well, andit's a lot.
It's a busy time in a lot ofways, but there is, like this
huge identity shift that happensand it's a very natural thing.
(13:54):
Right, you're going into momand mom is very selfless
situation.
It's a constant on 24 seven ofgiving, giving, giving and you
are.
And that doesn't mean that wecan't do things for ourselves,
or that we shouldn't, or wecan't work or whatever, but
there are things that we do puton the back burner when we
decide to become a mom if wewant to do it well, and so we
(14:16):
can't do everything.
Now, like, of course, like youcan work and you, or you cannot
work, or you can stay at home,or you can, but you can't, like
we can't go after everything wewould want, because now we have
these other people to think of.
And so there's this majoridentity shift, which I think
you touched on, and I reallyappreciate the questions that
you found yourself kind ofasking, like, like, who am I now
(14:37):
?
You know, where?
Where do I want to go?
Like, what is my life going tolook like?
What is my path?
And I think that is where somany of us find ourselves,
particularly after we stopdrinking, and particularly, even
more so in that, like afterthat first year of sobriety, I
really feel like that is thetime of, of awakening.
(14:59):
You know, the brain is reallyyou're not, you're as sober as
you're ever going to be.
You've had enough time awaywhere your body is healed.
You've started to do somethings, whether it's, you know,
AA or recovery work or whatevertherapy, you know, you started
to do some things to helpyourself.
And so, and then, usuallyaround that one year mark, most
of the people I talk to and thenbeyond, there is like this
(15:21):
awakening of okay, well, youknow, I want more, I want to do
more.
You know I'm looking for more,whether it's more recovery or
more friends or more work, youknow, it's just more personal
development.
So I love that for you.
And then you found it in art.
Speaker 2 (15:39):
Yeah, and you have your energy returns.
And then you also have thismajor readjustment with time.
Right, there's all this timethat you were spending thinking
about drinking or being underthe influence or all the things
that go up with that, and whenthat goes away, there's this
(16:00):
kind of like what do I do withthis?
Now, you know, my evenings I'mlike cogent and I can do stuff,
and what do I want to do?
And I felt during that time,when I was home too, because I
knew I wouldn't be, I knew Iwould go back to work, and I
also saw it as like there's thisopportunity to kind of figure
(16:21):
out what this next chapter isgoing to look like, um, but
still also wanting to you know,to be present yeah and yeah,
it's just the energy too, tohave the energy to do all of it,
I agree with you.
Speaker 1 (16:31):
I agree with the energy and about the time.
I remember back when I was likein very early recovery, in
treatment even, and they we weredoing some exercise.
I can't remember what it was,but like it was something about
losses, like what have you lost?
And um, for me my story, thatpart of my story, was kind of
boring.
I mean, I had some other kindof big whatever like things, but
I didn't really like, like losta lot of stuff.
So I had to kind of go, I hadto really dig deep for that and
(16:54):
the the time was what I put asthe top one, like, like and I
think about that a lot Like itwas time lost, and it's not just
, it's not just like time thatyou were drinking or drunk, it's
the time lost where you were sodysfunctional and like
constantly thinking aboutdrinking or thinking about
numbing out or thinking aboutgetting out of your life or
(17:15):
thinking about how bad thingsare.
You know, just that kind oflike it was all the time Right
and so I just that's just a bigloss.
So I also really want tohighlight and this is, I think,
where we're going to kind of gois the fact that you found
something for you.
Obviously, the the drawing waswas up your alley, like you like
art and that was very youroutlet.
(17:36):
But you, what you said, was soimportant because, um, you, you
picked a thing, you, um, thenyou made it very accessible, you
made it extremely accessible.
You had one book with thesepencils at this time of day and
this much time, and so you, youhad very specific it's like
(17:58):
smart goals kind of like.
You know like you had veryspecific, it's like smart goals
kind of like.
You know like you had veryspecific and kind of measurable
goals for this thing for you,and they weren't huge, you
weren't doing it for two hours,you know like you just, but you
had like, so there was no realroom for like, oh well, now I'm
going to be over here doing iton this piece of paper by the,
that's all yeah, or or I I gottago find the things I gotta.
Speaker 2 (18:19):
so part of it too is like leaving that out, having it
.
You know I'm not gonna put itaway and take it out every day,
right?
Speaker 1 (18:25):
no, it's like part of your routine it's like part of
your spot, like my morningroutine is in my spot, my book
is there, my pad is there.
So like I already am set up forsuccess is my point like you
set yourself up for success byhaving all of those things in
place and then it was justreally kind of up to you to
execute, it was up to you toshow up.
Speaker 2 (18:43):
Yeah, yeah, and what I've kind of learned since then.
I think there were a couplethings happening which I wasn't
aware of.
My goal was just to get betterat drawing or to participate in
this group kind of project,group kind of project.
But what I have learned morerecently too, is the role that,
you know, dopamine plays in ouraddiction and in our seeking of
(19:11):
of the dopamine.
And I and drawing or any reallycreative activity that you do
with your hands, you get like ait's like a low dopamine
activity, right.
You get a little burst, you getthat sense of satisfaction that
you did the thing and whileyou're doing it, there's all the
benefit going on too.
But it's like I was kind ofhealing my brain from the big
(19:31):
surges of dopamine that alcoholwas producing and getting these
little daily doses and also arefocus of my attention, right.
So it's not just like, oh, it'sthe evening and I really and I
want to drink and I'm thinkingabout how I'm not and I'm
thinking.
You know, it was like I gotsomething else to think about,
right, and I think I reallyhelped my brain to to create
(19:55):
some new pathways in that, inthe repetition of that over the
hundred days.
Speaker 1 (20:01):
Right, you replaced it with something else and again
, this is a part of that successpath.
You so you put, you put allthese things in place to set
yourself up for success.
And and then the consistency ofit why people I know there's
research on this, I can't quoteit, but like, why there's so
much good stuff about habits,right and consistency is because
(20:25):
it really does mean something,there really is power in those
things and there's a disciplineabout it that changes our brain
and makes us, changes ourneuroplasticity and helps us
learn and then become accustomedto and routinize right in a
different way, so that, likeit's sort of like I got sober
(20:49):
and it's a similar thing, right.
So in AI, like we talk aboutthat, like doing the same things
every single day over timecreates a discipline and,
generally speaking, people whouse and abuse substances in the
ways that we have are notdisciplined.
You know, I thought I was cause,I was like the athlete and I
was this and I could control myfood and I could do this, but
(21:11):
that's not the kind ofdiscipline that we're referring
to, like, yes, I can do that,but if you give me and if we can
channel it into somethingthat's going to end up being
positive for you.
I can do that, but if you canand if we can channel it into
something that's going to end upbeing positive for you.
But like we had to, I know Ihad to learn how to how to be
consistently disciplined in thatway.
Also, I think this wasn't likeyou were.
(21:31):
You weren't necessarily.
It's not like a parent, likeyou weren't following someone
else's direction, like you haveto do this, like this is a rule,
but you did follow the plan,like someone put this plan out
and you agreed to it and so thenyou followed the plan right.
So it's like, yeah, you are,you're kind of following the
rule and it takes a lot for uslike to be able to say I need to
(21:52):
be disciplined, I need tochange, I need to learn how to
follow directions.
Speaker 2 (22:02):
And, and I'd say, directions that I created myself
.
I mean, there was the a hundredday like just do something for
a hundred days.
Um, because I know in myselftoo, if, if someone tells me
what to do, that like triggersthis rebellious part of myself
who's like, uh, you can't tellme what to do, Right, so it was
open enough to where it was likethis, here's the framework, but
(22:24):
I get to decide what the thingis that I want to do, and I
think that piece is reallyimportant and it was something
that I I legitimately wanted toincrease my ability, increase my
skill at doing, and I so I hada buy-in in that way too ability
increased my skill at doing.
Speaker 1 (22:40):
And I, so I had a buy-in in that way too right.
Speaker 2 (22:41):
It was something that I really sincerely wanted, and
I enjoyed the process also.
Speaker 1 (22:47):
And then just just the beauty of it for you was
that it did help replace youralcohol.
It's filled the time slot ofwhere you are also where you
were normally drinking, and soit just helped to support your
goal of drinking less or notdrinking at all, by giving you
something else to focus on, andespecially in those moments when
(23:10):
you probably really did want todrink.
You know, um, I'm curious ifyou can say a little bit more
about what, um, what youdiscovered, like if you could
chunk it in periods of time youknow, a hundred days is a long
time, um, but like in the first25, 50, like as you went along,
I'm just curious what else youdiscovered about yourself, like
what you started to noticeemotionally, like, what did you
(23:32):
start to notice, um, changing ordid you notice anything?
Speaker 2 (23:37):
um, like maybe in your thought patterns or the way
you were carrying yourself, orthe way you were behaving or
interacting with other people,uh, that you probably didn't
even know was really, maybe itwasn't even related to the 100
day thing, but because, like,but in that time period, like
when you were doing that, yeah,yeah, I mean, I think a couple
things come to mind, um, as Icontinue to do it and follow
(23:57):
through on what I said I wasgonna do, which, like I said
from the beginning, I was kindof shocked at the end that I
actually did it to your point ondiscipline, right, but I gained
confidence in my ability toshow up for myself, which I
think really helped to to justfeel my sense of of myself and
like, oh, here I am Right.
(24:18):
That was my initial kind ofcrisis was like where am I, who
am I, where have I gone?
And then I started to createthese, these pieces in this work
, and really set aside this timefor myself, that I started to
see myself like proof of my ownlife right here on this paper,
(24:42):
like proof of my own life righthere on this paper.
Um, and then the other thingsthat were surprising.
Um was, like I mentioned earlier, like community that popped up
around this project andconnecting with people just in
my neighborhood, even people Ididn't even know were interested
in this kind of thing or wantedto do this, and so it also
really helped to open up my mindto how much is out there that I
(25:04):
don't know, right and cause youkind of can get into this
groove where you're like youthink you know how everything's
going to play out, you think youknow what your options are.
You think you know and I waslike whoa, it's just that whole
surprise element, I think, ofhow much is out there and how
many, and a new way to relate topeople too, because I had been,
(25:26):
you know, drinking was a bigpart of my social life too.
Their cool projects and myproject and seeing each other
and even actually seeing peoplewho I had known before but who
also participated in the project, to see their work, it's like
(25:46):
to see a different side ofsomeone, right, and to get to
know somebody in a different way.
It was really, really cool.
Speaker 1 (25:54):
I love that.
So what you started to noticewas that you felt more confident
, and I'm I'm going to guessthat maybe, like you could even
feel that in your body, like youcould show like that you were,
you were standing, your posturewas different, like you felt
more present or available, likewhen you were when you were
socializing, you know, and thenit sounds like even you know.
Maybe you felt you didn't usethis word, but it sounds to me
(26:18):
like you felt like moreinteresting, like you had more
to offer in a conversation, youknow, or like you could be
somebody that can contribute insocially which is really cool
too, and I think, being kind ofa shy person which I think is
also why alcohol, you know, insocial situations felt so
necessary.
Speaker 2 (26:37):
And because I was sharing this publicly, people
would see things, people wouldsee my work and they would come
up to me and they'd be like oh,I love you know, I really enjoy
seeing what you're going to comeup with every day or this and
that, and so it also allowed meto show a part of myself that I,
you know that other people theywouldn't know about if I didn't
put it out there.
(26:58):
And I got, I gotta tell you,the first day that I shared my
drawing publicly, like that,even though I just started an
Instagram account, I didn't haveany like followers.
There was no, it was no, it was.
I was trembling, pushing, likeyou know, share on that at that
moment was like I've really hadthis feeling of I have like I'm
(27:18):
outing myself here as like acreative person or someone who
likes to make art.
It felt so scary, right.
And then I also got used todoing that, because every day
for 100 days, I'm like I'm goingto do this, I'm going to.
You know, you just get used tosomething like that.
What was scary about it?
I felt exposed in a way andvulnerable, vulnerable, because
(27:45):
I know people can be, so I meanI can judgmental about art or
what is art right which is awhole other topic that I really
try to break down for people,which is a whole other topic
that I really try to break downfor people.
This like art with a capital Aas this very important thing
that only important people getto do and goes in a gallery, and
this really kind of out ofreach thing that being an artist
(28:11):
is to like the lowercase art,like, whatever you create, it's
an outfit right, it's how youarrange your room, it's how you
put food on a plate, whatever islike.
That's something you did andthat is your art and it's
(28:31):
valuable.
Speaker 1 (28:33):
It is valuable.
And what's what's hard when webecome, when we decide to become
public because not everybodywants to do that and not
everyone has to.
It's kind of like, if you'reinto journaling or writing, not
everybody is made to likepublish a book or to post those
kinds of things in a blog forthe world to see.
Now some people choose to do itand then we consume it and
(28:56):
we're like, wow, I love this,this is so cool, our story is
just like mine, but maybe you'renot really the kind of person
that wants to share in that wayand that's and it's totally fine
, like.
But when we do decide to dothat, there are people will have
, people will have opinion.
Whether you hear it or not,whether they share it with you
or not, they are going to havean opinion.
(29:17):
So, and sometimes,unfortunately, because of social
media and just public spaces,we are exposed to that.
We see the comments, we, youknow there are people that don't
like it or don't like us ordisagree or whatever, and so
then you know, when we becomepublic with our story or with
our work of any kind, we, it isa vulnerable experience of
exposure and opening up to, youknow, that kind of criticism.
(29:41):
On the flip side, it's also theopportunity and exposure for
very positive feedback.
So both things can be true andboth things do, I think, do
something for us.
They're actually not both bad,even though they feel bad
sometimes.
Speaker 2 (29:58):
I mean, it's the practice of owning who you are.
I made this.
Some people might like it, Somepeople might not like it.
It's really none of my business, Right?
My business is just to dowhat's in my heart, you know, to
create that and then you'reright If you want to share it or
not share it, it really doesn'tmatter.
The point is the process of thecreation and I think of
(30:22):
following through on the on yourcreative impulses.
I mean, I think an artistreally is just somebody who who
follows through on thosecreative impulses.
Speaker 1 (30:33):
And I think we talked the last time when we were
together about the creativitylooks like a lot of things.
You know, like cooking iscreative, putting an outfit
together is creative.
Like you know, there's a lot ofthings.
We I think a lot most of uswhen we hear the word creativity
, we go right to art, right Likethat capital A and or the
traditional kinds of art things.
But how we express ourselvescreatively it can look very,
(30:55):
very, very different andinteresting.
So that kind of leads me rightinto.
What I would love to ask youtoo is like how are you kind of
using this now in a way to serveothers?
Like how, how do you teachpeople to well, what do you
teach?
Do you teach them to do this,or are you trying to help them
with a specific attribute, likeconfidence or thinking patterns?
(31:15):
Or are you trying to help themwith a specific attribute like
confidence or thinking patterns,or are you, or what's your
shtick on that?
Speaker 2 (31:21):
Yeah, yeah, um, I do.
I do a bunch of differentthings because, like you said to
some people, the wordcreativity they're like that's
not me, I'm not creative and and, um, I know that's not true,
but, um, I do a few differentthings.
I do teach some classes, someonline classes, on art
(31:43):
journaling and ways to use artmaterials for expression, and
that, too, the art journaling,is something that my initial
practice has kind of morphedinto, and that, and that too,
the art art journaling, issomething that my initial
practice has kind of morphedinto, and that is something that
you don't share with people,right?
That's something that's like aritual, a habit of just
(32:06):
expressing yourself, to check inwith yourself.
So I teach people how to dothat.
So I created a seven daychallenge for folks who are
curious about about this, youknow, in any way, and it's free.
So there's no, there's nothingto lose, and it's basically just
(32:35):
using the most basic supply ofpaper and pencil or pen, if you
want to.
You know but two things.
And pencil or pen, if you wantto, you know but two things.
And I send an email every dayfor a week with a with a short
instruction.
It's like a, you know a fiveminute to kind of try, and
really, in this case we use thepencil and the paper to connect
with ourselves.
So I share a little exercise ineach day and then at the very
end it's like okay, now you know.
(32:56):
Now you've kind of got thismomentum.
Where would you like to take itand where's your curiosity?
Because I think, ultimately,creativity is connecting with
our intuition right, and thatcan always serve us right.
My intuition was what you know,that little voice that was like
(33:16):
is this drinking thing reallyhelping you Right?
And and taking the leap offaith to, to follow the
intuition, to hear yourintuition and to follow it.
And then I think also in thecreative process, oftentimes
straight away our critic appearsright, the critic can be very
accessible in a creative process, and so you also get that
(33:40):
practice of like okay, I hearyou and I'm going to do this
anyway, right, I hear you sayingthat this is silly and stupid
and I should stop, but I'm notI'm going to keep going.
So I believe you know we're,we're, we're integrated beings,
right?
So I think whatever we work onin one area, it feeds the rest
(34:00):
of our system so.
I think that, um, having apractice can can serve us in so
many other ways and when we,when we kind of it's like
priming the creative pump right,we can get that flow going.
And ultimately, creativity isabout problem solving too, and
(34:21):
sobriety is about problemsolving Like I have.
You know, I got to, I want tolive in a new way, and how am I
going to do that?
And and that's where that theidea of like the patchwork and
the pathways right, it's like apulling in of what am I curious
about and what do I need rightnow and how do I follow through
on that?
Speaker 1 (34:43):
Yeah, I love that so much because and when we're, you
know when we're working withothers, you know we, when you
and I as professionals areworking with others, or you know
, or anybody, if you're just,you know, with a friend or your
kids or whatever you know.
These are the kinds of thingsthat that do come up like.
You used a lot of words likegetting curious.
You use the word intuition,pathways, personal development,
(35:07):
and, and I like what you, I likewhat I was hearing at the end
there about how you're makingthe connection really between,
between sobriety, but also justpersonal development and growth
in general, and this creativeoutlet, slash program or
whatever you're doing there.
There is a connection, likeconnection there, right, cause
(35:28):
sometimes it's very, it's very.
I guess what I'm saying is it'schallenging sometimes to see
those, sometimes for me too,like it's challenging to see,
like the, the part, theemotional parts, like the
emotional development parts of athing you might be doing
outside of the program.
Right, I'm taking this cookingclass.
(35:48):
It's six weeks long.
I'm gonna learn how to makefondant cakes, making this up,
right, like I decided I wantedto be baked, to bake more, and
I'm gonna learn how to makefondant cakes, cool, cool.
So, like I'm day, I'm doingthis, I show right, like I
decided I wanted to bake moreand I'm going to learn how to
make fondant cakes, cool, cool.
So, like I'm doing this, I showup and you know, our logic,
brains take over and most, formost of us, even though we, even
if you are creative, if you'resomebody who struggles with
substances, you know we work ina certain kind of way.
We don't like to be told whatto do or to learn how to bake,
(36:14):
but we're not.
What's the unsaid part of itand what's not being talked
about is is what, what?
All the things that are goingon and running in the background
while you're taking that sixweek class.
Like, you show up there andthey say, here's the materials,
and you get to do like, eithermaybe it's scripted, like
whatever it is, you get to dowhat you want with this, and so
(36:36):
so now you're like, oh gosh, youknow, you, you are, you're like
getting curious.
And then there's like, um, youknow a little bit of listening.
You, you call it intuition.
Um, it could be spirituality,it could be a lot like whatever
that is for somebody where.
How are you getting to that?
How are you accessing that,that part of yourself?
Um, how are you accessing that,that part of yourself to say,
(36:57):
oh, you should make a fondantcat, cool, okay, cool.
And then, and then then theother emotional pieces along the
way through the developmentprocess of, like the.
You know, yes, we all have manyparts inside of us, right, all
that good, ifs work, and so,like that critic part shows up
and it's like you can't bakecakes, what are you doing here?
It's ridiculous.
Like you, you can't even bakecookie.
(37:19):
You know, why would you takethis class, you know.
And then, but then we have likethe protector part.
That's like, that's ridiculous.
She can do what she wants,she's an adult, you know.
And then we have that littleinsecure child part that's like
saying, ooh, I, I just want, I,if I do it, then maybe you'll
love me, you know?
Um, so I guess that was likevery clinical, I guess.
But, um, just trying to say,like it's, we're not always
(37:41):
thinking at the existentiallevel like that, to see how
these kinds of things areactually happening
simultaneously, until someonepoints it out to us.
Speaker 2 (37:50):
Right, right, and and it's a chance to I did my life
coach training with Martha Beckand she says how we do
everything is how we do.
Anything is how we doeverything, which is like, so
you can kind of look at it atthis like microcosm, right.
And the thing like making thecake who cares really,
(38:11):
ultimately, if we make a cake?
Or like the stakes are low,right, who cares if I scribble
on this paper?
It doesn't matter, but it's,it's.
We get to observe ourselves inthis low stakes process and and,
just like you said, those partspop up and we get to, to, to
work through them, um, and thenalso there's just that we have
(38:35):
an opportunity, kind of toaccess a flow too, really Right,
and to to tune in, to just tobe present.
I think creative acts requirepresence, and so there's the
practice of that, there's thepractice of like all this is
going on, all these parts areare doing their things.
And here I am, continuing onputting my pencil on the paper,
(39:00):
you know, making the fondant cat.
I'm here, I, this is me, right,this is kind of my, my true
self, who is, is doing thisamidst.
It's the practice of doing thisamidst all of the other things
that are going on Right.
Speaker 1 (39:17):
Exactly and what you said is so true.
Like any of these things thatwe're doing, unless you are,
like, on a contract with somegiant agent or something that's
paying you millions of dollarsto create the fondant cat cake,
it doesn't really matter.
Now it matters because itmatters to me, but, like, only
(39:40):
in that I want to do a good jobor I want people to like it.
I think this is so valuable.
What just was popping up for mewhile I was listening to you is
the is the piece aroundconfidence, because you know,
our like our show is calledconfidence over women, and like
that's a big part of, I think,the work we do when we start
building emotional sobriety, andoftentimes people will say or
(40:00):
sometimes I even think you knowthis many like, what does that
even mean?
Like, what do we meanconfidence?
Or like, how do we buildconfidence?
You know, like I'm not a mentalhealth therapist too, like I
don't even know.
I don't.
I'm like I do know, but likesometimes I find it hard to like
(40:21):
put that into words or put myfinger on it, and but then I'm
reminded of something like this,which is this very exact thing
what, how we do it is by canlike.
What you said earlier was is youjust do it anyway, you know so
we, we show up in the thing,whether it's you're starting a
health journey or you want tostart getting fit at the gym, or
you're trying to be creativewith art or with food or with
essential oils or whatever youlike.
We just keep doing it like in.
(40:43):
So where the like, where whereyou start to see the shift, is
that is really that neuropathwaychanging.
If you want to get into theneuroscience, it's the
neuropathway changing ofsomething done consistently over
time, every single day.
We don't deviate over time likea long time is.
Is then those, those parts thatshow up are still there.
You're still doing it anyway.
I mean, in the beginning it'sugly, right?
(41:03):
You're like oh man, like I don'tlike this, like like just like
hitting the share, like I don'twant to do it.
And then, but then, like thenext time, you know, you're like
, okay, well, well, it wasn'treally that bad actually last
(41:24):
time, and even if it was, youcan, you can kind of work
through it.
You're like, oh, okay, I can doit, um.
And then, but it's just doingthat over and over and over
again.
It just changes you.
It changes you these tiny microbits, like you start to feel
like you know, like I'm okay,like I'm, I'm okay, yeah, and,
and it's, and, and I'm, I'm.
Speaker 2 (41:36):
The reason I'm doing this is because I want to.
Yeah, no, um, I think so.
On the thinking aboutconfidence, right, and um,
building that it comes fromexperience, right, and and when
we do, when we follow through onthese things, that it's, it's
following through on somethingthat we want to do.
It might not make sense toother people, other people might
(41:58):
think it's stupid or a waste oftime, but there's something in
me.
I'm like I'm doing this for me,and so I think that's where the
the confidence grows, in that Igot my back, I'm going to you
know, I have a million otherresponsibilities, but I'm also
going to make time for mebecause I am valuable and it's
worth it, and, and I want to,and that's enough.
(42:22):
That's enough of a reason why.
Speaker 1 (42:24):
Exactly, and that's why I mean this might be weeks,
months, years, decades for somepeople.
Right, this process is and Ithink we're always doing when we
are, once we're set on the path, we're always going to be doing
it from now on, like we arealways going to be the kind of
people, once we learn, that aregoing to be on that pathway of
(42:45):
confidence and to kind ofpersonal development or change.
But the process really islengthy.
This is not something that'sgoing to be overnight or even
weeks, months, sometimes many,many, many months or years, and
exactly that.
It's just that, continuouslydoing over and over, until you
find yourself like, well, I amdoing this, and almost to the
(43:08):
point where I like it, or you'velearned to talk to those other
parts and say, no, thank you,critic, I actually don't need
you here anymore.
Like there are parts of us thatdo need the critic for a while,
right, because that's whatwe're used to.
Like if we were growing up in avery critical environment or we
were used to always having to,you know, kind of defend
ourselves or we weren'tlistening to her, like that
(43:30):
critic is what we know, so it'scomfortable for a while, and
then until we learn like oh,actually I don't really need you
.
I'm good, like I got this, andlike your more confident part
shows up and like now you're incharge.
Speaker 2 (43:44):
Yeah, it might be trying to protect you right From
embarrassment or to protect youfrom criticism or something,
but I am learning that I canhandle that.
Speaker 1 (43:54):
Exactly, exactly, and that's that window of tolerance
just widening up right.
It's like all of a sudden, now,over those weeks, months, years
, you're learning like, yeah,even though I'm feeling anxious
about this conversation with mypartner, I know I can handle it.
Even though I'm feelingfrustrated by this work
(44:16):
situation, I know how to takecare of myself, and so that's
the gift and the blessing thatcomes on the other side when we
find practices in our life thatare done consistently over time,
that lead us to begin to trustourselves.
Trust is a big part of this too,and I don't know, we didn't use
that word yet but our braindoes learn to trust ourselves
(44:36):
when we do what we say we'regoing to do.
So that's why that a hundredday activity or anything like
that is also really good,because when you consistently do
show up because you said youwere your brain eventually,
after whatever 21 days orwhatever the new rules are, um,
we'll say, oh, actually,christine does do what she says
she's going to do.
Like she is going to get upearlier at five, 30 to go to the
(44:57):
gym because she always doeswhat she says Right, whereas
before, if you're a snoozebutton hitter for for your whole
life, every time you go to dothat, they're like, yeah, she's
not going to do that, she's notgoing to do that, she didn't do
what she says she's going to do.
So it's part of building trust.
Um, through these kinds ofactivities repetitively done.
That then lead to thatconfidence, because then you're
(45:18):
like well, I'm okay, like I knowmy brain knows I always do what
.
I say and then also when thesethings come up, when the comment
shows up and it's like yourwork sucks and you're like you
know what you get to feel thatway, like you get to Like
everyone's allowed to have theirfeelings and instead of taking
it on and sort of putting it onand being like you're right you
(45:39):
know, you're totally right, Ishould have, I've never done
that Like I'm, I'm a terribleartist instead of putting it on,
you can just like let it bethere.
You can like let them have thatfeeling Right and be like yeah,
right, right.
Speaker 2 (45:58):
And that's why it's it's so important to set
yourself up for success with atiny, teeny, tiny baby step, and
that's what I said too.
I was shocked at the end of thefirst hundred days that I did
it.
I didn't know, but I had tokind of trust.
And then it also starts tobuild its own momentum.
For some part of you like islike aren't we going to do that
thing?
Aren't we going to do it?
Like the part and I thinkthat's a young part that's like
that's fun, I want to do that.
Are we gonna do it?
Are we gonna do it?
Speaker 1 (46:17):
well, it also, yeah, it starts to create that, that
part, and then also just itcreates a predictability.
That's why, like, people talkabout the morning routine being
so important, because then yourbrain begins to know like it's
predictable.
Like every morning I get up andI sit in this chair and we read
this book and I have my coffeeand it's very nice, and my dogs
are there, like, and then, eventhough your day might be crap
and you have the worst stuffgoing on ever, like you're you
(46:38):
go to bed and knowing like, okay, okay, tomorrow I could do that
thing again.
And it's such a small thing.
These are small.
It's not hours of spatreatments and those are nice
too but these tiny things can dothe job.
Speaker 2 (46:50):
Yeah, and in that way too, you're not putting it off
into the future, like when Ihave more time, when I have this
or that, when this thing isdone, then I'll get to that.
It's like we got to figure outa way to start it today.
Yeah, and that's why the I meanthree minutes of something
right.
Speaker 1 (47:08):
Well, I know, and I think for again, I think it's a
characteristic of people whostruggle with substances is just
like it has to be doneimmediately, it has to be done
in this specific way and if it'snot you, it's your failure, or
why bother you know, we?
I think that's the style that alot of us have, that
personality, and it's mine'salways like it's gotta be bigger
, better, bolder, faster, youknow, instead of being like pump
(47:29):
the brakes.
Actually, three minutes ofmeditation is great if you do it
every single day, yeah that'senough.
Yeah, so um, where you mentionedyour challenge, so I want
everybody to be able to go findthat.
Where do you like people toreach out to you if they want to
get ahold of you?
Speaker 2 (47:44):
Yeah, so I have a website.
My business is called alchemyrecovery and alchemy dash
recoverynet is my website, um,and they can find the challenge
there.
And also I've written someblogs and some work about my
coaching programs, and so now Iactually do 100 day sobriety
challenge, which I started lastyear, which is really fun, and
(48:08):
we have a small group coachingand then a daily email from me
with a little bite-sizedsobriety support.
I love it and that's beenreally fun too.
So I'll probably do that likeat four times a year.
We're about a quarter of theway through our winter challenge
, but we'll be doing another onein the spring Awesome.
Speaker 1 (48:30):
I'll make sure I link to those in the show notes
below so everybody can find you.
I thank you so much for yourtime, christine.
This has been very, verypowerful.
I below so everybody can findyou.
I thank you so much for yourtime, christine.
This has been very, verypowerful.
I love the connections we weremaking.
I mean, and sometimes we don'teven know that's what's going to
happen, and I just and it'svery organic and one of the
reasons why I love having theseconversations, because there's
just so much for each one of usto take away from it and I know
my audience is going to love it.
So thank you again, so much.
Speaker 2 (48:50):
Thank you, it's been a pleasure Appreciate it.
Speaker 1 (49:01):
Thank you for joining me for this week's episode of
Confident Sober Women.
If you enjoyed thisconversation, hit the subscribe
button above so you won't missany upcoming episodes.
And, hey, if you really lovedit, leave me a review.
You can learn more about theSober Freedom Inner Circle
membership atwwwshelbyjohncoachingcom.
Forward slash inner circle.
See you next time.
Well, hey there, sober ladies, Thank you so much
for joining me today for theConfident Sober Women podcast.
I am so excited today because Ijust played a role in her
recovery path.
It's just so refreshing.
I don't know.
(00:32):
It's different than some of ourtypical stories, or at least
the ones I'm typically exposedto.
She's also a SheRecovers coachand she's a recovering public
high school teacher and she'sthe mother of two teenage boys.
She works as a recovery coachand a counselor at the Positive
Alternative, which is aSeattle-based recovery center,
(00:52):
and while she's there, shefacilitates women's intensive
outpatient program and sheutilizes art as a huge part of
their emotional and spiritualgrowth.
So creativity really has beenat the heart of her recovery and
creative expression shebelieves is a human right and it
does come through as we'retalking.
And what I love about ourconversation is we are kind of
(01:15):
firing both of us on a lot ofcylinders right, and our neurons
are just kind of popping offall over the place.
But throughout the conversationboth of us I think we're making
some really big connections.
I mean I kind of went off alittle bit on a clinical tirade
for a hot second, but it wasbecause I was starting to make
these connections about thepathways that we're on when we
(01:38):
do something like this, when westep into maybe like a challenge
or a class or something.
Well, when we're doing theclass, it seems like we're there
for this specific objective.
But along the same pathway isour own personal development and
growth.
Now, we don't usually becomeaware of that necessarily at the
(01:58):
at the conscious level, meaningwe're not like walking and
being like while I'm taking thisbaking class, I am going to be
building confidence andself-esteem.
That's usually not theforefront, but it's happening at
the same time.
And while we were talking I wasreally making these connections
for myself, like it's not evenabout the thing you're doing.
(02:19):
I mean, the thing you're doingcan be really cool but at the
same time you're building thatconfidence because you were
learning to be reallyuncomfortable with something
that's maybe hard or outsideyour comfort zone and then doing
it anyway.
So you're learning to continuethrough discomfort despite the
fact that you're you don't likethat.
(02:40):
And that way the internalvoices and the internal parts of
yourself are also being kind oftalked to, soothed or even like
kicked out throughout thatpathway.
As you know, as you get furtheralong those that part of you
(03:06):
that was like being verycritical or negative that always
showed up might start todissipate a little bit because
you've been consistently doingthe same thing over time and now
your brain is changing and itis really, really cool.
So I want you to grab that bigglass of water or maybe your
favorite mocktail and join mefor this incredible conversation
with Christine, and make sureyou go to our website, follow
(03:27):
her on socials and give her somelove.
Thanks, hello and welcome to theConfident Sober Women podcast.
I'm your guide, shelby John.
I'm the mother of three, wifeto one and sober since July 1st
(03:51):
2002.
As sober women, we havesomething huge in common, and
when we share our lives and ourstories with each other, we feel
that sense of belonging andconnection.
So we know we are no longeralone.
In this podcast, you will hearreal life talk about building
confidence and transforming yourlife beyond recovery.
(04:12):
So come on, let's talk.
Hey, it's me, shelby.
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Take the first step towardstraining your brain for lasting
change.
Well, hey there, christine.
Thank you so much for joiningme today for the Confident Sober
Women podcast.
I am so excited to share youwith my audience and talk about
all things around creativity andsobriety, so I'm going to turn
the mic over to you and let youshare a little bit more about
(06:02):
your story, and then we're goingto talk.
Speaker 2 (06:08):
Okay, thank you, shelby.
Thank you for having me.
It's so great to be here andI've been looking forward to
this conversation.
Yeah, my name is Christine Sojaand we connected through she
Recovers, which has been areally big part of my recovery
journey as well, and one of theone of the tenants of she
Recovers is that we all createour own pathways, patchworks of
recovery, which really resonateswith me because that's been my
(06:32):
experience.
So I got sober, I quit drinkingin 2018, but I think I have
been in.
I was in recovery kind ofdefinitely before that, um, and
a big part for me of why I um,you know, kind of I could talk
(06:54):
about what was leading up towhat, my what was going on in my
life at that time.
But I was, um, a stay at homemom.
I had two small kids, two boys,two years apart, and that is
when I my substance use reallykind of built up.
(07:14):
It started to become a part ofmy like quote unquote self care
and that was something that, inthe process of you know it, kind
of it works until it doesn'twork Right, and it was a big
part of my socializing and a bigpart of my identity really.
But I started to feel like Ihad, I was lost, like, where am
(07:38):
I, who am I anymore?
Even I had this really major, afew, few major life transitions
, right, putting a pause on myteaching career, becoming I had.
I got married the year before Igot pregnant, had two small
kids.
I just I was like who am I?
How did I get here?
Who am I?
(07:58):
What's going on?
Um, and the, the what kind ofhelped me to?
I feel like it was even just athread that I was able to pull
on.
Um, for me, it started out withwriting, um, and I came across
Julia Cameron's book, um, theartist's way, just kind of by
(08:19):
chance, how these things happen,Right, and um, I started
writing daily and in thatwriting I kind of started to see
where I was and who I was andwhat I was thinking about and
that started to kind of buildinto, you know, a creative
(08:42):
practice that I still turn totoday and I teach today and I
can talk more about that too.
But I think that the reallyimportant thing for me was
creating some space and sometime, even if it was five
minutes, to just.
You know, the thing with thewith Julia Cameron's morning
(09:06):
pages they're called, is thatyou write it out by hand, right?
So it's like you're using yourown hands and your own writing
to just connect with yourselfand it kind of begins that
dialogue.
And coincidentally if youbelieve in coincidence right
after I decided that I needed tostep away from alcohol because
(09:30):
it was just it was I wasn'tfeeling well, I was depressed,
really, and knew that that was afactor, like that was something
I could do is like eliminatealcohol and see how that goes.
Um, and I actually wrote aseries of blog posts about what
was kind of leading up to thatthat folks can read if they want
to.
But I heard about this 100 dayproject and it was a project on
(09:58):
Instagram where you would pick asome type of creativity, would
pick a some type of creativity,something.
Whatever you wanted to do wascompletely open, but you would
share every day what you haddone.
And so as soon as I heard aboutthat, I was like, oh, I want to
(10:20):
do that.
I want to do that because I hadbeen writing.
But I really had this part ofme that wanted to to be an
artist, say, or a visual artist,or play with colors and play
with materials, and I was kindof a collector of these things,
right.
I had colored pencils and I hadcool markers and I had these
sketchbooks and I was likegathering all this stuff, but
then I didn't really know whatto do with it, right?
(10:41):
There was kind of this gapbetween what I wanted to do and
what I knew how to do.
And so the 100 day project Istarted an instagram account and
I decided I wanted to dodrawing, because drawing was an
area that I felt like was reallybeyond me, but something that I
thought was so cool whensomebody can render something on
(11:01):
a page with just a pencil,right, or a pen or something so
simple.
And I learned a lot in thatchallenge.
I found a community of otherpeople who were on the same kind
of mission, even people locallyin my neighborhood, which
really surprised me, and Ishocked myself by actually
(11:24):
completing 100 days and notmissing a day.
Wow, and I traveled during thattime.
I did things, so it was alsoreally important.
I think something I learnedthere is how important it is to
set yourself up with daily,realistic, achievable goals,
right.
So it was like I'm going todraw a picture from a magazine.
(11:46):
I'm going to use this onenotebook.
I'm going to use this set ofpens.
You know I can take them withme wherever I'm going.
I'm going to, I'm going tospend 10 minutes on it, maybe,
maybe less Right.
And then I found that often itwas like the last thing I would
do before I went to bed at nightwould be like, oh, I haven't
done that thing yet, but I didit, and so I learned about
(12:10):
myself too.
Like you know, that is somethingthese, these small daily
actions create huge change, andthat that was something I could
commit to, because some peoplelove to like sign up for a
marathon, marathon, say, andthat'll motivate me to to get in
shape, to do it.
But for me, these huge thingsjust make me want to
(12:31):
procrastinate and procrastinateand procrastinate.
It becomes this whole thing.
So, um, yeah, that was, thatwas kind of the intro for me to
how to grow a skill, um, andconnect with.
And when I look back now atthose, I had 100 drawings right,
which is is a body of work,really A whole book, yeah, and I
(12:56):
did all I did like pictures ofpeople, and so now when I look
at those pictures too, I can, Ican kind of see like parts of
myself in them too, like why Iwas drawn to those particular
images.
Speaker 1 (13:08):
Yeah, oh my gosh, thank you so much, christine,
for sharing your story in thatway.
I really like so much of my my,my, all my neurons are firing
as I was listening to you CauseI could, just, I have like so
much to say about all the thingsthat you're saying, and so I
really I want to try to reel itin a little bit and make sure
(13:32):
that we stay on track.
But one of the things that,first off, I want to say is you
know, when you were talkingabout even when your drinking
was ramping up, I mean, you'reobviously a very busy mom.
I get it.
I think most probably many ofthe women that are in our
community are moms as well, andit's a lot.
It's a busy time in a lot ofways, but there is, like this
huge identity shift that happensand it's a very natural thing.
(13:54):
Right, you're going into momand mom is very selfless
situation.
It's a constant on 24 seven ofgiving, giving, giving and you
are.
And that doesn't mean that wecan't do things for ourselves,
or that we shouldn't, or wecan't work or whatever, but
there are things that we do puton the back burner when we
decide to become a mom if wewant to do it well, and so we
(14:16):
can't do everything.
Now, like, of course, like youcan work and you, or you cannot
work, or you can stay at home,or you can, but you can't, like
we can't go after everything wewould want, because now we have
these other people to think of.
And so there's this majoridentity shift, which I think
you touched on, and I reallyappreciate the questions that
you found yourself kind ofasking, like, like, who am I now
(14:37):
?
You know, where?
Where do I want to go?
Like, what is my life going tolook like?
What is my path?
And I think that is where somany of us find ourselves,
particularly after we stopdrinking, and particularly, even
more so in that, like afterthat first year of sobriety, I
really feel like that is thetime of, of awakening.
(14:59):
You know, the brain is reallyyou're not, you're as sober as
you're ever going to be.
You've had enough time awaywhere your body is healed.
You've started to do somethings, whether it's, you know,
AA or recovery work or whatevertherapy, you know, you started
to do some things to helpyourself.
And so, and then, usuallyaround that one year mark, most
of the people I talk to and thenbeyond, there is like this
(15:21):
awakening of okay, well, youknow, I want more, I want to do
more.
You know I'm looking for more,whether it's more recovery or
more friends or more work, youknow, it's just more personal
development.
So I love that for you.
And then you found it in art.
Speaker 2 (15:39):
Yeah, and you have your energy returns.
And then you also have thismajor readjustment with time.
Right, there's all this timethat you were spending thinking
about drinking or being underthe influence or all the things
that go up with that, and whenthat goes away, there's this
(16:00):
kind of like what do I do withthis?
Now, you know, my evenings I'mlike cogent and I can do stuff,
and what do I want to do?
And I felt during that time,when I was home too, because I
knew I wouldn't be, I knew Iwould go back to work, and I
also saw it as like there's thisopportunity to kind of figure
(16:21):
out what this next chapter isgoing to look like, um, but
still also wanting to you know,to be present yeah and yeah,
it's just the energy too, tohave the energy to do all of it,
I agree with you.
Speaker 1 (16:31):
I agree with the energy and about the time.
I remember back when I was likein very early recovery, in
treatment even, and they we weredoing some exercise.
I can't remember what it was,but like it was something about
losses, like what have you lost?
And um, for me my story, thatpart of my story, was kind of
boring.
I mean, I had some other kindof big whatever like things, but
I didn't really like, like losta lot of stuff.
So I had to kind of go, I hadto really dig deep for that and
(16:54):
the the time was what I put asthe top one, like, like and I
think about that a lot Like itwas time lost, and it's not just
, it's not just like time thatyou were drinking or drunk, it's
the time lost where you were sodysfunctional and like
constantly thinking aboutdrinking or thinking about
numbing out or thinking aboutgetting out of your life or
(17:15):
thinking about how bad thingsare.
You know, just that kind oflike it was all the time Right
and so I just that's just a bigloss.
So I also really want tohighlight and this is, I think,
where we're going to kind of gois the fact that you found
something for you.
Obviously, the the drawing waswas up your alley, like you like
art and that was very youroutlet.
(17:36):
But you, what you said, was soimportant because, um, you, you
picked a thing, you, um, thenyou made it very accessible, you
made it extremely accessible.
You had one book with thesepencils at this time of day and
this much time, and so you, youhad very specific it's like
(17:58):
smart goals kind of like.
You know like you had veryspecific, it's like smart goals
kind of like.
You know like you had veryspecific and kind of measurable
goals for this thing for you,and they weren't huge, you
weren't doing it for two hours,you know like you just, but you
had like, so there was no realroom for like, oh well, now I'm
going to be over here doing iton this piece of paper by the,
that's all yeah, or or I I gottago find the things I gotta.
Speaker 2 (18:19):
so part of it too is like leaving that out, having it
.
You know I'm not gonna put itaway and take it out every day,
right?
Speaker 1 (18:25):
no, it's like part of your routine it's like part of
your spot, like my morningroutine is in my spot, my book
is there, my pad is there.
So like I already am set up forsuccess is my point like you
set yourself up for success byhaving all of those things in
place and then it was justreally kind of up to you to
execute, it was up to you toshow up.
Speaker 2 (18:43):
Yeah, yeah, and what I've kind of learned since then.
I think there were a couplethings happening which I wasn't
aware of.
My goal was just to get betterat drawing or to participate in
this group kind of project,group kind of project.
But what I have learned morerecently too, is the role that,
you know, dopamine plays in ouraddiction and in our seeking of
(19:11):
of the dopamine.
And I and drawing or any reallycreative activity that you do
with your hands, you get like ait's like a low dopamine
activity, right.
You get a little burst, you getthat sense of satisfaction that
you did the thing and whileyou're doing it, there's all the
benefit going on too.
But it's like I was kind ofhealing my brain from the big
(19:31):
surges of dopamine that alcoholwas producing and getting these
little daily doses and also arefocus of my attention, right.
So it's not just like, oh, it'sthe evening and I really and I
want to drink and I'm thinkingabout how I'm not and I'm
thinking.
You know, it was like I gotsomething else to think about,
right, and I think I reallyhelped my brain to to create
(19:55):
some new pathways in that, inthe repetition of that over the
hundred days.
Speaker 1 (20:01):
Right, you replaced it with something else and again
, this is a part of that successpath.
You so you put, you put allthese things in place to set
yourself up for success.
And and then the consistency ofit why people I know there's
research on this, I can't quoteit, but like, why there's so
much good stuff about habits,right and consistency is because
(20:25):
it really does mean something,there really is power in those
things and there's a disciplineabout it that changes our brain
and makes us, changes ourneuroplasticity and helps us
learn and then become accustomedto and routinize right in a
different way, so that, likeit's sort of like I got sober
(20:49):
and it's a similar thing, right.
So in AI, like we talk aboutthat, like doing the same things
every single day over timecreates a discipline and,
generally speaking, people whouse and abuse substances in the
ways that we have are notdisciplined.
You know, I thought I was cause,I was like the athlete and I
was this and I could control myfood and I could do this, but
(21:11):
that's not the kind ofdiscipline that we're referring
to, like, yes, I can do that,but if you give me and if we can
channel it into somethingthat's going to end up being
positive for you.
I can do that, but if you canand if we can channel it into
something that's going to end upbeing positive for you.
But like we had to, I know Ihad to learn how to how to be
consistently disciplined in thatway.
Also, I think this wasn't likeyou were.
(21:31):
You weren't necessarily.
It's not like a parent, likeyou weren't following someone
else's direction, like you haveto do this, like this is a rule,
but you did follow the plan,like someone put this plan out
and you agreed to it and so thenyou followed the plan right.
So it's like, yeah, you are,you're kind of following the
rule and it takes a lot for uslike to be able to say I need to
(21:52):
be disciplined, I need tochange, I need to learn how to
follow directions.
Speaker 2 (22:02):
And, and I'd say, directions that I created myself
.
I mean, there was the a hundredday like just do something for
a hundred days.
Um, because I know in myselftoo, if, if someone tells me
what to do, that like triggersthis rebellious part of myself
who's like, uh, you can't tellme what to do, Right, so it was
open enough to where it was likethis, here's the framework, but
(22:24):
I get to decide what the thingis that I want to do, and I
think that piece is reallyimportant and it was something
that I I legitimately wanted toincrease my ability, increase my
skill at doing, and I so I hada buy-in in that way too ability
increased my skill at doing.
Speaker 1 (22:40):
And I, so I had a buy-in in that way too right.
Speaker 2 (22:41):
It was something that I really sincerely wanted, and
I enjoyed the process also.
Speaker 1 (22:47):
And then just just the beauty of it for you was
that it did help replace youralcohol.
It's filled the time slot ofwhere you are also where you
were normally drinking, and soit just helped to support your
goal of drinking less or notdrinking at all, by giving you
something else to focus on, andespecially in those moments when
(23:10):
you probably really did want todrink.
You know, um, I'm curious ifyou can say a little bit more
about what, um, what youdiscovered, like if you could
chunk it in periods of time youknow, a hundred days is a long
time, um, but like in the first25, 50, like as you went along,
I'm just curious what else youdiscovered about yourself, like
what you started to noticeemotionally, like, what did you
(23:32):
start to notice, um, changing ordid you notice anything?
Speaker 2 (23:37):
um, like maybe in your thought patterns or the way
you were carrying yourself, orthe way you were behaving or
interacting with other people,uh, that you probably didn't
even know was really, maybe itwasn't even related to the 100
day thing, but because, like,but in that time period, like
when you were doing that, yeah,yeah, I mean, I think a couple
things come to mind, um, as Icontinue to do it and follow
(23:57):
through on what I said I wasgonna do, which, like I said
from the beginning, I was kindof shocked at the end that I
actually did it to your point ondiscipline, right, but I gained
confidence in my ability toshow up for myself, which I
think really helped to to justfeel my sense of of myself and
like, oh, here I am Right.
(24:18):
That was my initial kind ofcrisis was like where am I, who
am I, where have I gone?
And then I started to createthese, these pieces in this work
, and really set aside this timefor myself, that I started to
see myself like proof of my ownlife right here on this paper,
(24:42):
like proof of my own life righthere on this paper.
Um, and then the other thingsthat were surprising.
Um was, like I mentioned earlier, like community that popped up
around this project andconnecting with people just in
my neighborhood, even people Ididn't even know were interested
in this kind of thing or wantedto do this, and so it also
really helped to open up my mindto how much is out there that I
(25:04):
don't know, right and cause youkind of can get into this
groove where you're like youthink you know how everything's
going to play out, you think youknow what your options are.
You think you know and I waslike whoa, it's just that whole
surprise element, I think, ofhow much is out there and how
many, and a new way to relate topeople too, because I had been,
(25:26):
you know, drinking was a bigpart of my social life too.
Their cool projects and myproject and seeing each other
and even actually seeing peoplewho I had known before but who
also participated in the project, to see their work, it's like
(25:46):
to see a different side ofsomeone, right, and to get to
know somebody in a different way.
It was really, really cool.
Speaker 1 (25:54):
I love that.
So what you started to noticewas that you felt more confident
, and I'm I'm going to guessthat maybe, like you could even
feel that in your body, like youcould show like that you were,
you were standing, your posturewas different, like you felt
more present or available, likewhen you were when you were
socializing, you know, and thenit sounds like even you know.
Maybe you felt you didn't usethis word, but it sounds to me
(26:18):
like you felt like moreinteresting, like you had more
to offer in a conversation, youknow, or like you could be
somebody that can contribute insocially which is really cool
too, and I think, being kind ofa shy person which I think is
also why alcohol, you know, insocial situations felt so
necessary.
Speaker 2 (26:37):
And because I was sharing this publicly, people
would see things, people wouldsee my work and they would come
up to me and they'd be like oh,I love you know, I really enjoy
seeing what you're going to comeup with every day or this and
that, and so it also allowed meto show a part of myself that I,
you know that other people theywouldn't know about if I didn't
put it out there.
(26:58):
And I got, I gotta tell you,the first day that I shared my
drawing publicly, like that,even though I just started an
Instagram account, I didn't haveany like followers.
There was no, it was no, it was.
I was trembling, pushing, likeyou know, share on that at that
moment was like I've really hadthis feeling of I have like I'm
(27:18):
outing myself here as like acreative person or someone who
likes to make art.
It felt so scary, right.
And then I also got used todoing that, because every day
for 100 days, I'm like I'm goingto do this, I'm going to.
You know, you just get used tosomething like that.
What was scary about it?
I felt exposed in a way andvulnerable, vulnerable, because
(27:45):
I know people can be, so I meanI can judgmental about art or
what is art right which is awhole other topic that I really
try to break down for people,which is a whole other topic
that I really try to break downfor people.
This like art with a capital Aas this very important thing
that only important people getto do and goes in a gallery, and
this really kind of out ofreach thing that being an artist
(28:11):
is to like the lowercase art,like, whatever you create, it's
an outfit right, it's how youarrange your room, it's how you
put food on a plate, whatever islike.
That's something you did andthat is your art and it's
(28:31):
valuable.
Speaker 1 (28:33):
It is valuable.
And what's what's hard when webecome, when we decide to become
public because not everybodywants to do that and not
everyone has to.
It's kind of like, if you'reinto journaling or writing, not
everybody is made to likepublish a book or to post those
kinds of things in a blog forthe world to see.
Now some people choose to do itand then we consume it and
(28:56):
we're like, wow, I love this,this is so cool, our story is
just like mine, but maybe you'renot really the kind of person
that wants to share in that wayand that's and it's totally fine
, like.
But when we do decide to dothat, there are people will have
, people will have opinion.
Whether you hear it or not,whether they share it with you
or not, they are going to havean opinion.
(29:17):
So, and sometimes,unfortunately, because of social
media and just public spaces,we are exposed to that.
We see the comments, we, youknow there are people that don't
like it or don't like us ordisagree or whatever, and so
then you know, when we becomepublic with our story or with
our work of any kind, we, it isa vulnerable experience of
exposure and opening up to, youknow, that kind of criticism.
(29:41):
On the flip side, it's also theopportunity and exposure for
very positive feedback.
So both things can be true andboth things do, I think, do
something for us.
They're actually not both bad,even though they feel bad
sometimes.
Speaker 2 (29:58):
I mean, it's the practice of owning who you are.
I made this.
Some people might like it, Somepeople might not like it.
It's really none of my business, Right?
My business is just to dowhat's in my heart, you know, to
create that and then you'reright If you want to share it or
not share it, it really doesn'tmatter.
The point is the process of thecreation and I think of
(30:22):
following through on the on yourcreative impulses.
I mean, I think an artistreally is just somebody who who
follows through on thosecreative impulses.
Speaker 1 (30:33):
And I think we talked the last time when we were
together about the creativitylooks like a lot of things.
You know, like cooking iscreative, putting an outfit
together is creative.
Like you know, there's a lot ofthings.
We I think a lot most of uswhen we hear the word creativity
, we go right to art, right Likethat capital A and or the
traditional kinds of art things.
But how we express ourselvescreatively it can look very,
(30:55):
very, very different andinteresting.
So that kind of leads me rightinto.
What I would love to ask youtoo is like how are you kind of
using this now in a way to serveothers?
Like how, how do you teachpeople to well, what do you
teach?
Do you teach them to do this,or are you trying to help them
with a specific attribute, likeconfidence or thinking patterns?
(31:15):
Or are you trying to help themwith a specific attribute like
confidence or thinking patterns,or are you, or what's your
shtick on that?
Speaker 2 (31:21):
Yeah, yeah, um, I do.
I do a bunch of differentthings because, like you said to
some people, the wordcreativity they're like that's
not me, I'm not creative and and, um, I know that's not true,
but, um, I do a few differentthings.
I do teach some classes, someonline classes, on art
(31:43):
journaling and ways to use artmaterials for expression, and
that, too, the art journaling,is something that my initial
practice has kind of morphedinto, and that, and that too,
the art art journaling, issomething that my initial
practice has kind of morphedinto, and that is something that
you don't share with people,right?
That's something that's like aritual, a habit of just
(32:06):
expressing yourself, to check inwith yourself.
So I teach people how to dothat.
So I created a seven daychallenge for folks who are
curious about about this, youknow, in any way, and it's free.
So there's no, there's nothingto lose, and it's basically just
(32:35):
using the most basic supply ofpaper and pencil or pen, if you
want to.
You know but two things.
And pencil or pen, if you wantto, you know but two things.
And I send an email every dayfor a week with a with a short
instruction.
It's like a, you know a fiveminute to kind of try, and
really, in this case we use thepencil and the paper to connect
with ourselves.
So I share a little exercise ineach day and then at the very
end it's like okay, now you know.
(32:56):
Now you've kind of got thismomentum.
Where would you like to take itand where's your curiosity?
Because I think, ultimately,creativity is connecting with
our intuition right, and thatcan always serve us right.
My intuition was what you know,that little voice that was like
(33:16):
is this drinking thing reallyhelping you Right?
And and taking the leap offaith to, to follow the
intuition, to hear yourintuition and to follow it.
And then I think also in thecreative process, oftentimes
straight away our critic appearsright, the critic can be very
accessible in a creative process, and so you also get that
(33:40):
practice of like okay, I hearyou and I'm going to do this
anyway, right, I hear you sayingthat this is silly and stupid
and I should stop, but I'm notI'm going to keep going.
So I believe you know we're,we're, we're integrated beings,
right?
So I think whatever we work onin one area, it feeds the rest
(34:00):
of our system so.
I think that, um, having apractice can can serve us in so
many other ways and when we,when we kind of it's like
priming the creative pump right,we can get that flow going.
And ultimately, creativity isabout problem solving too, and
(34:21):
sobriety is about problemsolving Like I have.
You know, I got to, I want tolive in a new way, and how am I
going to do that?
And and that's where that theidea of like the patchwork and
the pathways right, it's like apulling in of what am I curious
about and what do I need rightnow and how do I follow through
on that?
Speaker 1 (34:43):
Yeah, I love that so much because and when we're, you
know when we're working withothers, you know we, when you
and I as professionals areworking with others, or you know
, or anybody, if you're just,you know, with a friend or your
kids or whatever you know.
These are the kinds of thingsthat that do come up like.
You used a lot of words likegetting curious.
You use the word intuition,pathways, personal development,
(35:07):
and, and I like what you, I likewhat I was hearing at the end
there about how you're makingthe connection really between,
between sobriety, but also justpersonal development and growth
in general, and this creativeoutlet, slash program or
whatever you're doing there.
There is a connection, likeconnection there, right, cause
(35:28):
sometimes it's very, it's very.
I guess what I'm saying is it'schallenging sometimes to see
those, sometimes for me too,like it's challenging to see,
like the, the part, theemotional parts, like the
emotional development parts of athing you might be doing
outside of the program.
Right, I'm taking this cookingclass.
(35:48):
It's six weeks long.
I'm gonna learn how to makefondant cakes, making this up,
right, like I decided I wantedto be baked, to bake more, and
I'm gonna learn how to makefondant cakes, cool, cool.
So, like I'm day, I'm doingthis, I show right, like I
decided I wanted to bake moreand I'm going to learn how to
make fondant cakes, cool, cool.
So, like I'm doing this, I showup and you know, our logic,
brains take over and most, formost of us, even though we, even
if you are creative, if you'resomebody who struggles with
substances, you know we work ina certain kind of way.
We don't like to be told whatto do or to learn how to bake,
(36:14):
but we're not.
What's the unsaid part of itand what's not being talked
about is is what, what?
All the things that are goingon and running in the background
while you're taking that sixweek class.
Like, you show up there andthey say, here's the materials,
and you get to do like, eithermaybe it's scripted, like
whatever it is, you get to dowhat you want with this, and so
(36:36):
so now you're like, oh gosh, youknow, you, you are, you're like
getting curious.
And then there's like, um, youknow a little bit of listening.
You, you call it intuition.
Um, it could be spirituality,it could be a lot like whatever
that is for somebody where.
How are you getting to that?
How are you accessing that,that part of yourself?
Um, how are you accessing that,that part of yourself to say,
(36:57):
oh, you should make a fondantcat, cool, okay, cool.
And then, and then then theother emotional pieces along the
way through the developmentprocess of, like the.
You know, yes, we all have manyparts inside of us, right, all
that good, ifs work, and so,like that critic part shows up
and it's like you can't bakecakes, what are you doing here?
It's ridiculous.
Like you, you can't even bakecookie.
(37:19):
You know, why would you takethis class, you know.
And then, but then we have likethe protector part.
That's like, that's ridiculous.
She can do what she wants,she's an adult, you know.
And then we have that littleinsecure child part that's like
saying, ooh, I, I just want, I,if I do it, then maybe you'll
love me, you know?
Um, so I guess that was likevery clinical, I guess.
But, um, just trying to say,like it's, we're not always
(37:41):
thinking at the existentiallevel like that, to see how
these kinds of things areactually happening
simultaneously, until someonepoints it out to us.
Speaker 2 (37:50):
Right, right, and and it's a chance to I did my life
coach training with Martha Beckand she says how we do
everything is how we do.
Anything is how we doeverything, which is like, so
you can kind of look at it atthis like microcosm, right.
And the thing like making thecake who cares really,
(38:11):
ultimately, if we make a cake?
Or like the stakes are low,right, who cares if I scribble
on this paper?
It doesn't matter, but it's,it's.
We get to observe ourselves inthis low stakes process and and,
just like you said, those partspop up and we get to, to, to
work through them, um, and thenalso there's just that we have
(38:35):
an opportunity, kind of toaccess a flow too, really Right,
and to to tune in, to just tobe present.
I think creative acts requirepresence, and so there's the
practice of that, there's thepractice of like all this is
going on, all these parts areare doing their things.
And here I am, continuing onputting my pencil on the paper,
(39:00):
you know, making the fondant cat.
I'm here, I, this is me, right,this is kind of my, my true
self, who is, is doing thisamidst.
It's the practice of doing thisamidst all of the other things
that are going on Right.
Speaker 1 (39:17):
Exactly and what you said is so true.
Like any of these things thatwe're doing, unless you are,
like, on a contract with somegiant agent or something that's
paying you millions of dollarsto create the fondant cat cake,
it doesn't really matter.
Now it matters because itmatters to me, but, like, only
(39:40):
in that I want to do a good jobor I want people to like it.
I think this is so valuable.
What just was popping up for mewhile I was listening to you is
the is the piece aroundconfidence, because you know,
our like our show is calledconfidence over women, and like
that's a big part of, I think,the work we do when we start
building emotional sobriety, andoftentimes people will say or
(40:00):
sometimes I even think you knowthis many like, what does that
even mean?
Like, what do we meanconfidence?
Or like, how do we buildconfidence?
You know, like I'm not a mentalhealth therapist too, like I
don't even know.
I don't.
I'm like I do know, but likesometimes I find it hard to like
(40:21):
put that into words or put myfinger on it, and but then I'm
reminded of something like this,which is this very exact thing
what, how we do it is by canlike.
What you said earlier was is youjust do it anyway, you know so
we, we show up in the thing,whether it's you're starting a
health journey or you want tostart getting fit at the gym, or
you're trying to be creativewith art or with food or with
essential oils or whatever youlike.
We just keep doing it like in.
(40:43):
So where the like, where whereyou start to see the shift, is
that is really that neuropathwaychanging.
If you want to get into theneuroscience, it's the
neuropathway changing ofsomething done consistently over
time, every single day.
We don't deviate over time likea long time is.
Is then those, those parts thatshow up are still there.
You're still doing it anyway.
I mean, in the beginning it'sugly, right?
(41:03):
You're like oh man, like I don'tlike this, like like just like
hitting the share, like I don'twant to do it.
And then, but then, like thenext time, you know, you're like
, okay, well, well, it wasn'treally that bad actually last
(41:24):
time, and even if it was, youcan, you can kind of work
through it.
You're like, oh, okay, I can doit, um.
And then, but it's just doingthat over and over and over
again.
It just changes you.
It changes you these tiny microbits, like you start to feel
like you know, like I'm okay,like I'm, I'm okay, yeah, and,
and it's, and, and I'm, I'm.
Speaker 2 (41:36):
The reason I'm doing this is because I want to.
Yeah, no, um, I think so.
On the thinking aboutconfidence, right, and um,
building that it comes fromexperience, right, and and when
we do, when we follow through onthese things, that it's, it's
following through on somethingthat we want to do.
It might not make sense toother people, other people might
(41:58):
think it's stupid or a waste oftime, but there's something in
me.
I'm like I'm doing this for me,and so I think that's where the
the confidence grows, in that Igot my back, I'm going to you
know, I have a million otherresponsibilities, but I'm also
going to make time for mebecause I am valuable and it's
worth it, and, and I want to,and that's enough.
(42:22):
That's enough of a reason why.
Speaker 1 (42:24):
Exactly, and that's why I mean this might be weeks,
months, years, decades for somepeople.
Right, this process is and Ithink we're always doing when we
are, once we're set on the path, we're always going to be doing
it from now on, like we arealways going to be the kind of
people, once we learn, that aregoing to be on that pathway of
(42:45):
confidence and to kind ofpersonal development or change.
But the process really islengthy.
This is not something that'sgoing to be overnight or even
weeks, months, sometimes many,many, many months or years, and
exactly that.
It's just that, continuouslydoing over and over, until you
find yourself like, well, I amdoing this, and almost to the
(43:08):
point where I like it, or you'velearned to talk to those other
parts and say, no, thank you,critic, I actually don't need
you here anymore.
Like there are parts of us thatdo need the critic for a while,
right, because that's whatwe're used to.
Like if we were growing up in avery critical environment or we
were used to always having to,you know, kind of defend
ourselves or we weren'tlistening to her, like that
(43:30):
critic is what we know, so it'scomfortable for a while, and
then until we learn like oh,actually I don't really need you
.
I'm good, like I got this, andlike your more confident part
shows up and like now you're incharge.
Speaker 2 (43:44):
Yeah, it might be trying to protect you right From
embarrassment or to protect youfrom criticism or something,
but I am learning that I canhandle that.
Speaker 1 (43:54):
Exactly, exactly, and that's that window of tolerance
just widening up right.
It's like all of a sudden, now,over those weeks, months, years
, you're learning like, yeah,even though I'm feeling anxious
about this conversation with mypartner, I know I can handle it.
Even though I'm feelingfrustrated by this work
(44:16):
situation, I know how to takecare of myself, and so that's
the gift and the blessing thatcomes on the other side when we
find practices in our life thatare done consistently over time,
that lead us to begin to trustourselves.
Trust is a big part of this too,and I don't know, we didn't use
that word yet but our braindoes learn to trust ourselves
(44:36):
when we do what we say we'regoing to do.
So that's why that a hundredday activity or anything like
that is also really good,because when you consistently do
show up because you said youwere your brain eventually,
after whatever 21 days orwhatever the new rules are, um,
we'll say, oh, actually,christine does do what she says
she's going to do.
Like she is going to get upearlier at five, 30 to go to the
(44:57):
gym because she always doeswhat she says Right, whereas
before, if you're a snoozebutton hitter for for your whole
life, every time you go to dothat, they're like, yeah, she's
not going to do that, she's notgoing to do that, she didn't do
what she says she's going to do.
So it's part of building trust.
Um, through these kinds ofactivities repetitively done.
That then lead to thatconfidence, because then you're
(45:18):
like well, I'm okay, like I knowmy brain knows I always do what
.
I say and then also when thesethings come up, when the comment
shows up and it's like yourwork sucks and you're like you
know what you get to feel thatway, like you get to Like
everyone's allowed to have theirfeelings and instead of taking
it on and sort of putting it onand being like you're right you
(45:39):
know, you're totally right, Ishould have, I've never done
that Like I'm, I'm a terribleartist instead of putting it on,
you can just like let it bethere.
You can like let them have thatfeeling Right and be like yeah,
right, right.
Speaker 2 (45:58):
And that's why it's it's so important to set
yourself up for success with atiny, teeny, tiny baby step, and
that's what I said too.
I was shocked at the end of thefirst hundred days that I did
it.
I didn't know, but I had tokind of trust.
And then it also starts tobuild its own momentum.
For some part of you like islike aren't we going to do that
thing?
Aren't we going to do it?
Like the part and I thinkthat's a young part that's like
that's fun, I want to do that.
Are we gonna do it?
Are we gonna do it?
Speaker 1 (46:17):
well, it also, yeah, it starts to create that, that
part, and then also just itcreates a predictability.
That's why, like, people talkabout the morning routine being
so important, because then yourbrain begins to know like it's
predictable.
Like every morning I get up andI sit in this chair and we read
this book and I have my coffeeand it's very nice, and my dogs
are there, like, and then, eventhough your day might be crap
and you have the worst stuffgoing on ever, like you're you
(46:38):
go to bed and knowing like, okay, okay, tomorrow I could do that
thing again.
And it's such a small thing.
These are small.
It's not hours of spatreatments and those are nice
too but these tiny things can dothe job.
Speaker 2 (46:50):
Yeah, and in that way too, you're not putting it off
into the future, like when Ihave more time, when I have this
or that, when this thing isdone, then I'll get to that.
It's like we got to figure outa way to start it today.
Yeah, and that's why the I meanthree minutes of something
right.
Speaker 1 (47:08):
Well, I know, and I think for again, I think it's a
characteristic of people whostruggle with substances is just
like it has to be doneimmediately, it has to be done
in this specific way and if it'snot you, it's your failure, or
why bother you know, we?
I think that's the style that alot of us have, that
personality, and it's mine'salways like it's gotta be bigger
, better, bolder, faster, youknow, instead of being like pump
(47:29):
the brakes.
Actually, three minutes ofmeditation is great if you do it
every single day, yeah that'senough.
Yeah, so um, where you mentionedyour challenge, so I want
everybody to be able to go findthat.
Where do you like people toreach out to you if they want to
get ahold of you?
Speaker 2 (47:44):
Yeah, so I have a website.
My business is called alchemyrecovery and alchemy dash
recoverynet is my website, um,and they can find the challenge
there.
And also I've written someblogs and some work about my
coaching programs, and so now Iactually do 100 day sobriety
challenge, which I started lastyear, which is really fun, and
(48:08):
we have a small group coachingand then a daily email from me
with a little bite-sizedsobriety support.
I love it and that's beenreally fun too.
So I'll probably do that likeat four times a year.
We're about a quarter of theway through our winter challenge
, but we'll be doing another onein the spring Awesome.
Speaker 1 (48:30):
I'll make sure I link to those in the show notes
below so everybody can find you.
I thank you so much for yourtime, christine.
This has been very, verypowerful.
I below so everybody can findyou.
I thank you so much for yourtime, christine.
This has been very, verypowerful.
I love the connections we weremaking.
I mean, and sometimes we don'teven know that's what's going to
happen, and I just and it'svery organic and one of the
reasons why I love having theseconversations, because there's
just so much for each one of usto take away from it and I know
my audience is going to love it.
So thank you again, so much.
Speaker 2 (48:50):
Thank you, it's been a pleasure Appreciate it.
Speaker 1 (49:01):
Thank you for joining me for this week's episode of
Confident Sober Women.
If you enjoyed thisconversation, hit the subscribe
button above so you won't missany upcoming episodes.
And, hey, if you really lovedit, leave me a review.
You can learn more about theSober Freedom Inner Circle
membership atwwwshelbyjohncoachingcom.
Forward slash inner circle.
See you next time.
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