Hey there Confident You! As an introvert, the art of creation often stems from the quietest moments—those when the world hushes and the inner voice speaks the loudest. Reflecting on the nuanced experiences of personal growth through podcasting, our latest episode peels back the creative curtain, revealing how a simple observation, like a cloud's shape, can lead to profound songwriting. We spin tales of wisdom handed down by influential educators, championing a love for understanding that fuels both artistry and the insatiable desire to absorb knowledge.
The episode marches on to the beat of independence, inspired by music moguls like Prince and Jay-Z who blazed trails by asserting control over their artistic destinies. We share candid regrets and reflections, like the lyric that never was—a missed chance to stand shoulder to shoulder with the defiant spirit of those who came before us. Ownership and mastery weave through our conversation, emphasizing the critical business acumen needed in today's digital and social media landscape. This heart-to-heart is more than just about seizing control; it's a testament to the belief that purpose and authenticity conquer fleeting fame.
Memory lane is lined with vinyl records and cassette tapes as we reminisce about the tangible allure of music's golden days. Albums that have defied time's erosion, like "Purple Rain" and "Thriller," share space with the audacious spirit of artists such as Kanye West, who wrote his own permission slip to stardom. As we wrap up, we underscore the significance of artists forging connections with their true audience, imparting life's lessons through the universal language of music. This episode is a symphony of musings for creators and listeners who cherish the deeper connections forged through the art of sound.
CONNECT WITH A.J. THROWBACK:
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BAMM! Official Website:
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:01):
actually enjoying myself.
I've learned so much.
I've learned so much about me.
How did you feel doing yourpodcast?
What did that do for you from?
That's what I wanted to ask youIntrovert what is your
definition?
I hear you refer to yourself asan introvert.
(00:21):
What is your definition ofintrovert so I can make sure I
have a full and completeunderstanding of what you mean
when you say that?
Speaker 2 (00:30):
So what I mean when I say introvert and it's really
probably more of the textbookdefinition of it anyway is
someone who draws from within,draws their energy from within,
like usually with, likeextroverts, they're a little bit
more dependent on, like theexternal circumstances,
(00:54):
specifically like people, likethey draw their energy from
other people, whereas for me, asan introvert, while I can draw
my energy from people, I draw itmore so from within.
So like when, when I'm, when Icreate, I don't necessarily have
to be around other people inorder to be inspired.
(01:14):
I could be inspired by what'sgoing on in life.
I could be inspired byliterally looking up in the sky
and seeing a certain shape of acloud like huh.
That makes me think aboutcupcakes.
I'm going to write a song aboutcupcakes.
I like cupcakes, don't do thatI want a cupcake.
Speaker 1 (01:39):
Why would you do that Buttercream icing?
Come on man.
Speaker 2 (01:55):
What's with me, man, what it's just, you know, like
it's just drawing energy fromdifferent places, like where you
draw your energy from, like.
Or you could think about, say,if I look up in the sky like huh
, that makes me think about acupcake, then I kind of sort of
kind of sit with that thought inmy mind, in my heart, in my
spirit, like, hmm, how can Iflip cupcakes into a song that
actually has a little bit moremeaning, which I have done
plenty of times, you know.
I said I could, I could takesomething as simple as what is
(02:18):
the song that I took and flippedinto something butterflies.
I don't even remember the songbecause I don't even have the
song one, uh, gladiator, who, uh, yeah, he has the song.
He never released it, but itwas a song about butterflies.
So I literally sat and likestudied what butterflies do, how
butterflies do it in order tomake it a metaphor for love and
(02:44):
so like.
But that's the type of stuffI'll do, like I'll just sit with
myself and be like you know, orreally sit with God and be like
, okay, how can we approach thissong and make this what it is?
So that's really when I definemyself as an introvert is that I
don't like to sayself-sufficient, because I'm
(03:05):
never truly like myself, doesn'tjust suffice if, if that makes
sense, yeah, you know.
But at the same time I draw fromkind of sort of like just
really sitting and thinkingabout things, um, feeling my
feelings, thinking my thoughts,thinking about things, um,
(03:27):
filling my feelings, thinking mythoughts, really doing like
analysis in my mind or just kindof being more of an observer
than a person that has to feellike they have to fill the room
with words and energy andtalking and you know all of that
stuff and there's nothing wrongwith that.
But for me, like when I, when Iinteract with other, it takes
more out of me than, say,somebody that's an extrovert.
(03:48):
An extrovert can probably, likeyou know people for hours and
hours and hours and be just fine, whereas like an introvert it's
like that's cool, now I need togo off in this corner and
recharge so I can go peopleagain.
You know, it takes a little bitmore out of an introvert to
people than it does for somebodywho's not, you know.
So it's really just anintrovert, is just somebody
(04:10):
who's like just inwardly chargedand energized.
Speaker 1 (04:16):
Inwardly charged and energized Inwardly.
You keep using the word study.
You used it all during theinterview, the conversation.
The word study came up so manytimes that it's something that
you do.
You study your art, your craft,you study your own thoughts.
(04:40):
Yes, you study.
What was this something?
How did you start doing that?
How did you know that that wassomething you needed to do?
Speaker 2 (04:53):
well, um, probably the simplest answer is my
mother's a school teacher.
Uh, well, she's a.
Now she's a retired schoolteacher, 43 years in DCPS, and
that is yes, yes, yes, and agood amount of that time was in
Southeast DC.
(05:14):
So say less.
So you know, growing up on theeast of the river, you already
know.
But because she was a schoolteacher and one of the things
that she used to always tell me,whenever I would ask her what a
word meant, she would tell meto go look it up and she would
(05:34):
tell me she's like I could tellyou what this means.
But remember, I'm not adictionary.
We have a dictionary, so youshould go look it up.
So my mom, between my mom mom,between my humanities 10th grade
humanities teacher actually,she was my 10th and 12th grade
humanities teacher.
Shout out to miss anna kinsman,school without walls, senior
high school uh, she was a typeof person like when we would
(05:58):
read, she, if we got to a wordthat was a word that she even
thought we didn't know.
And if we got to the word andwe didn't know it, we would get
embarrassed in front of theclass because she'd be like look
, how are you reading somethingand you don't know what it means
.
So from the first time she everdid that to me was the last
(06:19):
time she ever did that to me Iwas like, oh no, every single
time that I don't know something, I write it down, I take notes
on it, and so that whole betweenmy mother, between miss kinsman
and you know a lot of differentexperiences in life.
I've become a student of prettymuch everything, like I have.
Actually I should have wore theshirt tonight since I said
(06:41):
study so much.
I have a shirt from mymerchandise line that says
student of life, for life.
Because if you're not constantlystudying life, then you might
as well not be living.
Because what do you really?
How are you evolving, how areyou learning, how are you
growing, if you're notconstantly studying the things
(07:03):
that make you you and the thingsthat make the world around it
function the way it functions?
You know I'm saying if you'renot, and if you're, you know
spiritual like we are.
You know I'm saying if you'regod revering people, because I
don't like saying god fearing, Ilike saying god revering, yes,
because we are in reverence ofgod, we're not in fear of god,
(07:24):
because fear and faith cannotcoexist.
So we're god revering people,we, we, we sit in awe of who he
is.
You know I'm saying so.
If you're not studying thyselfto be approved, then how then?
How can then?
How can you be, you know?
Speaker 1 (07:44):
that right there, that part right there, and that
is AJ throwback.
Ladies and gentlemen, you havejust been schooled on studying.
That is how in depth that oneword yields all of that
information.
Amazing you are.
(08:05):
I appreciate you.
Yes, my goodness, this was.
I know you were like where isshe going with Prince?
Speaker 2 (08:17):
but you know it's funny and I should have said
this during the podcast.
What's interesting about yousaying that?
I have a song calledindependence avenue, where and
it's a song about being anindependent artist, and in the
song I referenced the wholething of prince having written
slave on his face.
(08:39):
I said, and I should.
This should have been the.
This should have been the lyric.
Oh, I'm so mad at myself nowbecause it should have been the
lyric.
I'm so mad at myself nowbecause it should have been the
lyric.
What should have been the lyric?
Go ahead.
I said I'm a king, walk aroundwearing master on my face.
That should have been the lyric.
I'm so mad I didn't say that Ican't cause it's one of the
(09:05):
illest bars I've ever writtenbecause, like, instantly, I had
Prince in my the entire time.
I was thinking about Princewhen I wrote that song the
entire time.
That's that's why it made sense, like to me, that you used
Prince, because, like I thoughtabout that line and I thought
about everything he went throughat Warner Brothers and all of
(09:27):
the nonsense that he had toendure and the whole thing of
him wearing slave on his face.
That was so powerful.
I was like I don't ever want tobe in that position where I
feel like somebody is trying totake me for a ride and take my
money, take my identity, take mylikeness, take everything that
(09:49):
I've worked so hard to build andsay it's theirs.
Speaker 1 (09:53):
Right, you create it.
Speaker 2 (09:56):
Yep and say it's theirs.
I don't have any right to it, Ican't own my masters, you know.
That's why I like I think aboutthat.
I also think about there's aline Jay-Z said in this song no
Hook, where he said he justsimply said it slaves, own your
masters.
And that bar alone could haveso many different meanings.
(10:23):
But for somebody who ended upwalking away, when he ended up
starting rock nation, leavingDef Jam, leaving Rockefeller, he
ended up taking his mastersfrom all of his music that he
did with, with Rockefeller,under the Island Def Jam pool,
and he owned his masters.
And from there it was like Ilook at what Prince went through
(10:45):
, look at what jay-z wentthrough, and it's like that's
how I want to move, like, andit's not just the ownership, of
saying oh, I just own it, it'sabout making sure that you've
done all of the business behindowning it.
It's not enough just to own it,yes, but you got to put the
business behind it.
You got to make sure that youcross all the t's, dot all the
(11:07):
i's and if you got an uppercaseq, slash all your q's, you know,
because otherwise it's just aoh.
You just look at oh, oh, oh, mygoodness, oh, what happened
Exactly.
See, oh man, exactly, exactly.
Speaker 1 (11:31):
I'm alone.
Speaker 2 (11:35):
You picked up exactly what I was putting down.
I can't do this.
Speaker 1 (11:44):
Oh my goodness, all of that, wow, okay, yeah, yep,
that was amazing.
Speaker 2 (11:52):
Yes.
Speaker 1 (11:53):
This is still stuff that can go out.
Speaker 2 (11:55):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (11:56):
Because I recorded it , so I'll give it to you.
Speaker 2 (11:58):
I appreciate it, I appreciate it.
Speaker 1 (12:00):
Yeah, that's hot.
Speaker 2 (12:02):
Yeah, that's hot yeah .
Speaker 1 (12:03):
That's hot.
Yeah, that was hot.
Yeah, now you're making methink I thought.
When I started the show I saideverybody is like what, what?
And that's kind of me havingpeople really be lost at the
beginning.
It's only for the people thatare waiting for the other shoe
(12:25):
to drop.
So if you log off going yeah, Idon't know what this is about
don't stay for the punch yeah,yeah, exactly I don't know what
to tell you.
I don't know what how my mindthinks I just jump right into
something and you're going what,what, what?
Even the domestic violence oneI did just starting with the
(12:49):
fact that Tina Turner had justpassed.
Speaker 2 (12:52):
Yeah, yeah.
Speaker 1 (12:54):
To go to Ike Turner and everything.
And then that's my the factthat I didn't even realize
Independence Day is coming up.
Speaker 2 (13:04):
Look at what I titled the episode Independence Day is
coming up.
Look at what I titled theepisode Yep, yep, yep.
Speaker 1 (13:10):
Those are my nods, my winks from God.
Speaker 2 (13:14):
You're on the right track.
Speaker 1 (13:15):
You're doing the right thing Veterans Day.
I had no idea I wasinterviewing a veteran until an
hour before somebody texted me.
It was like so, apropos, you'reinterviewing a veteran.
I was like what?
Speaker 2 (13:25):
Wowo, you're interviewing a veteran.
I was like what I am?
Look at, God I am.
I had no idea.
Speaker 1 (13:32):
I had no idea.
Speaker 2 (13:33):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (13:34):
So when I say God is really, I know that I'm doing
the right thing.
I know that I'm not doing thisjust to hear myself talk or to
be in front of the camera.
My kids even know.
They're like wait, you're onsocial media.
I didn't start.
I didn't start instagram untildecember the 22nd we're only
what.
How many months into this year,the seventh, we're going to the
(13:57):
seventh month.
So that means I've been, I'vebeen on social media for seven
months yep, yep already starteda podcast already just I'm not
gonna lie.
Speaker 2 (14:07):
When I saw you get on social media, I was like hold
on, hold on, like yes, yes, yes.
I was like let's go, let's go.
Speaker 1 (14:27):
That thing is so.
My kids was like you know, youtold us we can't do this.
I said, yes, kids.
No, you know where I work youknow what.
I see I'm like yeah, nah, we'renot doing that.
If you're going to make, yourmistakes in life you're gonna
make your mistakes in life.
You're gonna make them inprivate, like I got a chance to
(14:48):
make mine right.
I made mistakes, so I never,ever, held them to this
unrealistic expectation ofperfection.
But my goal was to make sureyou didn't live your life out in
front of everybody.
And you were able to make yourmistakes in profit.
Speaker 2 (15:10):
Yep.
Speaker 1 (15:11):
Those are to be made in private.
I couldn't get.
I'm like, why are people outhere with their phones up just
posting random people?
I was in McDonald's withsomebody and she was like, oh my
goodness, I got to post this.
I got to post this and I'm likewhat are you posting?
I turn around, it's a littlekid at the counter in their
thermal sleeping clothes.
Yes, it was July.
Speaker 2 (15:33):
Oh, wow.
Speaker 1 (15:34):
Yes, those were clearly flannels, but I'm like
that's a kid.
Speaker 2 (15:38):
Right, it's certain things.
Like you got to know the limits, you know that's a kid.
Like you gotta know the limits,you know it's.
I think, and and people I talkto all the time that's from a
certain generation, you know.
I mean we, we from thatgeneration for real.
For real, like if you pullingout phones, people looking at
you like uh, what you doing, bro?
Speaker 1 (15:57):
like you popo, like what's up like you know what, we
, the ones that came up with thephrase what happens in vegas?
Right exactly exactly recordingof it on your phone nope, nope,
nope if you were, the onlypeople who knew was the people
(16:19):
who was there exactly, exactly.
But now it's cameras everywhere.
But the crazy thing is so me,just me and my conspiracy thing
Watch it, watch it, watch it.
This is the last thing on theplay.
Watch it, watch it, watch it.
They wanted to pass a bill toput cameras everywhere.
They knocked it down.
(16:41):
They found a whole differentway of doing it by putting it in
our phones.
Speaker 2 (16:47):
Yep.
Speaker 1 (16:48):
Having social media where we post everything.
Speaker 2 (16:51):
Mm-hmm.
Speaker 1 (16:54):
And then having people do the door ring, yep
Inside cameras.
Speaker 2 (16:59):
Yep.
Speaker 1 (17:00):
All of that.
Speaker 2 (17:01):
Yep.
Speaker 1 (17:02):
They found.
They said no, we're not goingto do it, but then they found
another way for us to do it toourselves.
Yep, yep.
They found that they.
They said, no, we're not goingto do it, but then they found
another way for us to do it toourselves.
Yep, yep, big brothers watchingthat part right there, that part
right there.
So I used to tell my I used totake my laptop and put a sticky
on top of my camera and my sonwould be like, why do you keep
doing that?
(17:22):
I said, yeah, it's just me.
I don't trust it.
I put stickies on top of thecamera on my laptop, the camera
on my TV.
Why, my TV got a camera.
Nope, post it.
We're going to cover all ofthose, we're just going to do
that.
Speaker 2 (17:38):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (17:39):
Yeah, Now I call.
I did a virtual meeting withhim and I go Manuel, I can't see
you.
He said, oh, my cover's stillon.
I said, oh, you got a cover onyour camera.
Speaker 2 (17:49):
Yeah, yeah, why you?
Speaker 1 (17:51):
got a cover on your camera, son, because, ma you
never know, somebody could be.
Oh, in my mind I'm like oh, nowshe not crazy?
Speaker 2 (18:02):
Yeah, they got the little slide joints you can do.
I actually need one for myphone because I have one for my
laptop.
Like, if I'm not doingsomething like this, I just poop
, yeah, like, yeah, nah on myphone.
Speaker 1 (18:17):
I wouldn't take it in the bathroom, in the shower,
because one time I looked downand on my phone there was
literally a picture of me and mytowel getting going to turn the
water.
On my phone oh, wow I said, wait, I didn't, never mind, I just
(18:37):
stopped taking it in thebathroom.
It sounds crazy.
So yeah, I would love to have,because I used to put tape on
top.
I used to take the sticky, thesticky part on top.
I used to tape the sticky parton top of my stuff.
My son, my listen, I don't carewhat you think, it's what I
think.
That make me comfortable.
I'm good, I ain't making youput one on yours.
(18:57):
I can put it on mine.
Oh yeah, all right, I'm goingto leave you alone now.
I appreciate you.
Thank you, thank you.
Speaker 2 (19:05):
Thank you, I appreciate you.
This was excellent, excellent,excellent, excellent.
Speaker 1 (19:10):
I had a great time tonight listen, you should have
had a great time.
Do you know the work you mademe put in someone who knows more
about music than you?
Yeah, nah, tell that brotherstay on the other side of the
room.
No, I don't want to interviewhim.
I'm like, wait what?
I was watching interviews ofyou and I was like, okay, that
(19:33):
dude asked this.
This dude went oh, he unpackeda whole big old, he asked for
this much.
You gave so much in-depthinformation that it's impossible
for someone to not have a fullunderstanding of what you were
speaking about.
So, e as I've seen youinterview very good, amazing
(19:56):
interviewer thank you to see yoube interviewed and the command
and authority that you have onthe topics that you discuss, and
the way that you just catch thequestion and go oh, okay, let
me.
There, you go, but I'm not justsending one ball, it's going to
be so much information.
(20:19):
It's undeniable that I know whatI'm talking about.
It's so rich in history you cansee the study of the things
that you do.
It's just so rich in the lovethat you have, for it is evident
in what you do and the lovethat you have for the
(20:42):
information to be out and beaccurate and to be known,
because you take it and yousimplify it in such a way that
you definitely somebody can walkaway.
Every conversation I have withyou, I walk away with a better
understanding of whatever thatis I ask, and that's exactly how
you do, uh, as the person thatis being interviewed.
(21:04):
so I thank you for the exampleof being an interviewer and, um,
yeah, I'm gonna have to listen.
Speaker 2 (21:16):
I had to step up.
I had to step up, girl, girlthis boy ready for him.
Speaker 1 (21:19):
You better know that sugar hill gang song I can't go.
What's that?
What's that?
What's?
That's not good enough.
You gotta be listen this dudeup here.
You can't stay down here andlet him.
You need to come.
I need you to get up here.
You can have this conversation,it's best to have a
conversation, at least in thesame realm, on the same level,
(21:43):
and I really do appreciate you.
Because of you, I did have toraise the game, raise, raise the
bar, and I appreciate it.
Speaker 2 (21:51):
Yeah, yeah, no doubt, no doubt.
And it's so funny that you hadmentioned Sugar Hill Gang,
because that was.
I'm glad that you said it,because I didn't get to say that
when I was saying, like therecords that were laying around,
saying like the records thatwere laying around, like the
most memorable one that Iremember was the label.
(22:12):
You know, with the vinyls theyhad the little stickers on the
label and the sugar hill gangalways had one of the coolest
ones to me, you know, because itwas just so like them solar
records, um, and it was likeanother one.
I want to say it was likecasablanca records.
They all had like some of thecoolest stickers on their vinyl
because it was so colorful andso intricate.
(22:35):
You know, I mean like sugarhill gang, like just like that,
that little colorful, like howto it would curl around and all
that, and it was blue.
I was like yo, they had theirjoints was like like that, like
I absolutely like it made mewant to listen to their music.
You know, like I didn't evenhave to see like the album cover
, just show me a really coolsticker on the vinyl and like
(22:57):
you'll get my attention, youknow so even in that, even the
sticker on the vinyl, do youremember eight tracks?
oh yeah oh yeah my uh, you'rewhat well with my uncle, so like
I never actually listened tomusic on eight tracks.
But my uncle, may he rest inpeace, my uncle raymond, he had
(23:19):
a bunch of eight tracks justlaying around.
He had an eight track playerthat didn't work, but he had a
bunch of eight tracks layingaround.
I was like what are these?
And my mom was like those areeight tracks.
Like what are eight?
And my mom was like those are 8tracks.
They were like cassettes beforecassettes.
Speaker 1 (23:32):
I was like oh okay right, and then cassettes, but
then the 45 and then the wholealbum and then you go to now,
everything is digital yeah, howdo you feel would you go to now?
Everything is digital.
Yeah, yeah, how do you feel?
Would you like to put your yourmusic out as an album?
Speaker 2 (23:56):
yes actual vinyl album yes, yes, like when I put
out my full-length album, um, Iwant to pull it out, I want to
put it out on vinyl.
I want to put out on vinyl andI want to put out on cassette
and I want to put out on cd.
I want to put out on all themediums that I came up with.
You know, I'm saying like Icame up on cds, I came up on
(24:17):
cassettes, I came up on vinyl.
So I want to be able to put thealbum on all of those mediums.
Number one, because I came upon it.
Number two, and this isn'tbragging, I don't want it to
come across as bragging.
This is me just understandingthe greatness that I put into
(24:38):
what I do and the effort that Iput into what I do.
I feel like my album will bevinyl worthy, because not all
albums are vinyl worthy, will bevinyl worthy, because not all
albums are vinyl worthy.
You know.
You know some albums like, uh,you could have just put that on
mp3, that was fine, that wascool.
You know, you just left itthere.
Like this project that I'mputting together, like this is
(25:01):
going to be a vinyl worthyproject.
So I definitely, I definitelywant it on vinyl a vinyl worthy
project, come on here.
Speaker 1 (25:10):
A vinyl worthy project, so, because when they
give awards, they still give youout a gold record, a platinum
record, even though most thingsnow are digital that's right.
Speaker 2 (25:24):
That's right because it's like you know what are you
going to do a gold, or platinum,or diamond I don't even know
what like the equivalent for anMP3 or wave or whatever would be
.
It's like I don't know.
I don't know.
A flash drive, a gold, right?
Speaker 1 (25:45):
Benalubi, benalubi, yeah so my favorite album was
Purple Rain.
I literally was able to go andget a 45 from the record store
and it had him on it and thealbum itself was purple.
(26:09):
Yeah, yeah, yeah, just thethings that you could do with
albums.
My God, my favorite.
I can't, I can't lie the onethat I wore out.
I used to listen to Al Jarreau,I used to listen to Phyllis
Hyman.
I had prints on repeat all day,every day, as I would go and
(26:30):
come back from two hours to getto school, two hours to get back
from school and lunchtime yeah,that was Prince.
Yeah, when I would get home, Icannot feel.
The one that got the most playwas Michael Jackson, off the
wall.
Speaker 2 (26:45):
Oh yes, oh yes, oh yes.
Speaker 1 (26:47):
As far as an album.
Speaker 2 (26:48):
Yeah, because.
Speaker 1 (26:49):
I had my cassette so I was listening to Prince going
and coming.
That was all day everywhere.
But that off the wall album, ohmy gosh.
Speaker 2 (26:59):
Yeah, yeah, and there's always a debate on which
one is better off the wall orthriller.
Now, when I was a kid I wouldhave said thriller, but as an
adult who's lived, who's satwith music a little bit more,
and when I really listened tothe I won't say the purity,
(27:19):
because thriller has its owntype of level of purity
musically, but thriller is alittle bit more polished than
off the wall, whereas off thewall still has a little bit of a
little bit of grit to it that I, like you know, like it's still
, it's like the end of disco,but not disco.
(27:42):
Then you think about a song likeI can't help it, which is like
the blueprint for like so muchtheory, music theory that gets
learned, like I feel, likeeverybody learns.
I can't help it, they learn howto play that song.
If you're a musician musicianyou know I'm saying so you don't
have a song like that onThriller, it's only on Off the
(28:02):
Wall, you know.
So whenever I think about likewhich album to me, like I
gravitate more toward listeningto, it's off the wall, it's just
, it's just sonically like to be1979 and put that album out
like mike was ahead of his timeyeah quincy jones was ahead of
(28:24):
his time.
Rod temperton was ahead of histime.
Speaker 1 (28:26):
Yeah, you know, and that's of his time.
Speaker 2 (28:27):
Yeah, you know, and that's some.
That's somebody who does notget enough props.
Rod Temperton, who was withHeat Wave that was a group that
he was with and the stuff thathe was involved in.
Whether you talk in Heat Wave,whether you talk in Michael
Jackson, whether you talk inGeorge Benson, like pretty much
anybody who Quincy Jones wastouching back in the late 70s,
(28:51):
early 80s James Ingram, PattyAustin, you know, the list goes
on and on and on, Like wheneverI think about the Neptunes with
Chad and Pharrell.
Speaker 1 (29:02):
Yes.
Speaker 2 (29:03):
I almost want to say that, like Rod Temperton was the
Chad and Quincy Jones was thePharrell, because Quincy Jones
was the face guy, like everybodyknew Quincy, whereas not
everybody kind of sort of knewwho Rod Temperton was.
But Rod Temperton had so muchlike musicianship, songwriting
(29:24):
abilities going on for him hewas like the secret weapon.
You know of that whole thinggoing on, you know, so you put
him and Quincy Jones and MichaelJackson together for that first
album that they did together.
I mean, it was just, it wasjust incredible.
It was just incredible, right.
Speaker 1 (29:42):
Right.
So that's how I feel aboutPrince.
I think that Prince is such aunique style Nothing he would
put out things nobody wasputting out.
Under the cherry moon, nobodywas putting out anything like
Purple Rain Nobody.
Moon, nobody was putting out,uh, anything like purple rain
(30:03):
nobody.
But he was never mistakenly byour culture.
We never mistook that he wastalking to us, to me.
I never mistook that he wastalking to me telling my story
or anything.
Nothing, nothing in me, ever.
Sometimes an artist comes outand they do different types of
music and our culture will go oh, they're not with us.
(30:26):
I never felt that way aboutPrince, but I feel like his
music was always so unique itwas nothing like it.
Speaker 2 (30:45):
Nothing could compare .
That's crazy nothing compared.
Speaker 1 (30:46):
Okay, because that's also wait, wait, wait, you found
a song, so yeah it, and sothat's why how I feel about, and
I think he purposely made surehe was unique and different I
don't think he wanted to looklike anyone else.
I don't think he wanted tosound like anyone else.
I think he took his craft veryseriously, to the point that he
(31:09):
taught himself over 20instruments yeah, he taught
himself by ear yeah, that'sincredible all of those and then
his first album.
He played all of thoseinstruments.
That was all him yeah just to bethat intricate, to be 15 and go
(31:29):
, yeah, nah, not unless I wantto produce my own.
There's nobody that I know isgoing to be able to do what I
envision for me, the way that Isee for me.
I don't want to sign.
So he already knew in his mindyeah, if I sign that paper the
(31:52):
way you got it written, I haveto do whatever you say.
You get to pick my clothes, youget to pick my songs.
You get to pick my songs.
You pick the producer.
I have to record whatever yousay I have to record.
I want to record what I want torecord.
So the freedom that he got justfrom that first move of not
taking the contract for fouryears For them to understand
(32:16):
dude, he's really not going tosign this nightclub.
No, I'm not.
You need to fix that.
He's really not gonna sign thisnight, but no, I'm not.
Speaker 2 (32:19):
Yeah I'm not doing it .
Yeah, that's why, I connect withhim so much, you know, like
artistically and business wise,because this is something a lot
of people don't talk about whenit comes to prince.
Prince was, like, one of thefirst artists to sell his music
on his own website.
You know he was, he was kind ofband camp before band camp was,
(32:42):
you know, like he, because hehad to be, because he had to
figure out a different way to dothis thing than what was being
done at the time, like you'retalking about.
This is the late 90s.
That he did this like Prince isalways ahead of the curve at in
some form of fashion, whetherit's creatively, whether it's
(33:03):
business wise, and he had to getjerked in order to, you know,
be ahead of the curve.
But he managed to do it in away that, because I think I
remember hearing him I don'tknow whether Nas told the story
or whether somebody told thestory about naz, but prince
pulled naz aside and told himlike basically taught him how to
(33:27):
be better at his business ahbecause it was like he saw what
was going on.
You know, naz being on columbia,um, he was like look, you got
to do this differently.
You know, I respect you as anartist, I think you're awesome,
but you got to do your businessdifferently.
You know, and that's that's biglike if prince is telling you
(33:48):
that that means he actuallyrocks with you as an artist and
as a person enough to actuallygive you that tutelage, you know
that's why he started doinginterviews.
Speaker 1 (33:59):
Everybody's like oh, he's starting to do interviews
because he doesn't feel relevant, he doesn't feel this.
No, he started doing interviewsbecause he wanted to make sure.
He said no, I want to make surethe younger generation doesn't
lose the authenticity of music.
Yep, if you're going tosynthesizers and you're just
(34:21):
computerizing everything, you'relosing the authenticity of
music.
So I'm here, I'm speaking now.
I'm not speaking for personalthings.
I'm speaking to educate theyouth, the ones that are coming
up now.
I'm like, oh wait, this isgoing wrong.
I'm gonna need to say something, I'm gonna have to start
(34:44):
speaking, and that's why hestarted interviewing yeah, yeah,
I think that's why I'd likethinking about what you just
said.
Speaker 2 (34:50):
I think that's why I like he's such a huge or he was
such a huge fan of Janelle Monae, because Janelle Monae is
probably the new age answer ornew age kind of version of
Prince at this stage, because,like, what she does is so
different than what anybody elseis has been doing.
(35:14):
I mean, she started off thatway.
I will never forget the firsttime.
The first time, no, the firstout of two times.
I've actually seen JanelleMonae live twice and both times
that I seen her I think theywere about 10 years apart.
So the first time I saw her shewas actually an artist under
big boy on his purple I think itwas purple ribbon label.
(35:36):
Uh, because it was her and hisother artist named Scar.
When I say that the crowddidn't know what to do with her
because we were at the Zanzibar,mind you, that crowd didn't.
That crowd, that crowd had cometo see Glenn Jones and I think,
like John B, that crowd did notknow what to do with Janelle
(35:56):
Monae.
I knew what to do with herbecause I had already known of
her, but they did not know whatto do with her.
Fast forward 11 years later, Isee her at the Fillmore in Miami
and that stadium is packed forher, because she made a career
of being herself, beingauthentic and true to who she
(36:18):
was, and it took having peoplelike prince to believe in her
and to encourage her to continueto lean into that and be who
you are artistically, and peopleare going to rock with you.
You know, I'm saying, likeyou're going to have supporters,
you're going to have likeyou're not just going to have
fleeting supporters, you'regoing to have steady supporters.
Yeah, you know, and that's whatit's about in this game.
(36:40):
It's.
You know, it's funny, because Iwas just having a conversation
with somebody about, uh, rap andwe were talking about how, a
lot of times, rappers feel theneed to copy off of other people
in order to like be accepted inthe industry, because the
industry tells you you can onlytalk about, like, this limited
(37:01):
amount of subjects.
I forget what we were talkingabout.
Oh, artists not evolving withtheir, with their supporters,
not realizing that theirsupporters want more out of them
, um, and so you know, I I hadcommented.
I forget what my comment was,but one of the people that he
(37:22):
mentioned was Kanye and he wassaying how Kanye was given the
permission once he was popularand I was like, well, actually
he was different from the start.
He didn't sound like anybodyfrom the start.
So I don't think it was so muchabout him being given
permission Right Once he waspopular it's about.
(37:45):
It was always about him sayingI can sign my own permission
slip, I'm good.
Speaker 1 (37:51):
Always, always.
He was asking me.
He was like OK, you want to actlike that.
Fine, I'll do it.
Speaker 2 (37:59):
Right, exactly he was asking me.
He was like okay, you want toact like that, fine, I'll do it
right.
Speaker 1 (38:01):
Exactly, I'll do it get in the car Accident and
still do it on the schedule.
I was doing it through somewire On my teeth yep and I'm
still gonna spit.
Speaker 2 (38:09):
Yep, exactly, exactly .
If that isn't a sign Like whoelse has done that Right
successfully to that level, tomake a song with their their
mouth wired shut and that jointBe a hit and every Single word.
Speaker 1 (38:28):
Exactly felt Every single Letter of Every word he
said.
You felt it, you felteverything he meant when he said
that thing.
Yep he's like, oh, and thisain't even going to stop me.
He's like, wait, that didn'tstop you, dude, your jaw is
wired, shit.
(38:48):
Schedule the studio.
Speaker 2 (38:50):
Yep, exactly, I'm paying for it.
What's the problem, mm-hmm Likehey, I want to record.
And then like, hey, I want torecord and then start the
journal talking about a boostfor breakfast, an ensure for
dessert they had the pancakes.
I just sipped the scissor like,come on, you start the song off
.
Clever, you know, and visual,like you see everything that he
(39:12):
said.
Like who else starts a song offlike this is the first song
that Rockefeller is actuallygiving you.
I mean, you had to twist theirarm to make them release a song
on you as their in-house, one oftheir in-house producers, and
you had to make believers out ofthem.
He started his whole career wasI'm going to take charge.
(39:33):
I'm not going to let anybodygive me the permission to be who
I am.
This is who I am and I'm goingto continue to be who I am, for
better or worse, with Kanye.
But but he still took charge ofhis own destiny.
And the point that I was makingto the brother was if every
artist did that yeah theindustry would be at the mercy
(39:56):
of the artists, and not theother way around.
Speaker 1 (39:59):
Yes, yes, sir, yes, sir, yes, sir, but I love that
you came on here tonight and youtold people how to make their
own stage.
Speaker 2 (40:09):
Yes, yes, how to make their own stage.
Mm, hmm, mm, hmm, it's important, it's important, it's important
, it's important.
You know, the key thing is andthis is something I should have
mentioned during the show too is, in terms of blueprint,
figuring out who your art, youraudience is.
The worst thing you can do asany artist, independent, major,
(40:40):
whatever is say oh, I want tomake music for everybody, the
music ain't for everybody, likethat's.
The first thing that you got tounderstand as an artist is that
your music is not for everybody.
You have to go out and you haveto find your audience.
Yeah, and it might now, granted,that audience might be wide
ranging, but that still doesn'tmean that your music is for
everybody.
If you make a specific type ofmusic, you have to find a few
(41:03):
people that rock with you andkeep magnifying those people,
those types of people, and, likeI said, they may look different
, they may come from differentbackgrounds, they might, um,
like different things.
Some might like sports, somemight like anime things, some
might like sports, some mightlike anime.
Whatever it might be, you mightfind a bunch of people in
between, but the bottom line isfiguring out who your audience
(41:26):
is and just continuing tomagnify that audience.
Your audience is not everybody.
Speaker 1 (41:33):
Because I know that your audience is.
You make grown man music.
Speaker 2 (41:42):
Very grown I am.
I am not in my 20s anymore, I'magain.
I am.
I will be 44 years old inseptember.
Uh, I don't make music for 20years, but but I make music that
a lot of 20olds can findthemselves in, because I talk
about life, I talk about myexperience and I don't just talk
about my experience as justbeing the age that I am.
(42:04):
I try to do my best to bring itbackward and bring it forward
and talk about the lessons thatI learn.
So it's almost to the point.
And once again I quote Jay-Z,the line where he said I think
it was in what's the joint H tothe Izzo, where he was like Hove
(42:24):
did that, so hopefully youdon't have to go through that,
like that's how I feel.
Joe did that, so hopefully youdon't have to go through that.
You know?
Or Joe did that.
Speaker 1 (42:33):
Hopefully you will go through that and better, come
on here because you weredefinitely an example to be seen
and understood and gleaned fromtonight.
My God, I appreciate that.
actually enjoying myself.
I've learned so much.
I've learned so much about me.
How did you feel doing yourpodcast?
What did that do for you from?
That's what I wanted to ask youIntrovert what is your
definition?
I hear you refer to yourself asan introvert.
(00:21):
What is your definition ofintrovert so I can make sure I
have a full and completeunderstanding of what you mean
when you say that?
Speaker 2 (00:30):
So what I mean when I say introvert and it's really
probably more of the textbookdefinition of it anyway is
someone who draws from within,draws their energy from within,
like usually with, likeextroverts, they're a little bit
more dependent on, like theexternal circumstances,
(00:54):
specifically like people, likethey draw their energy from
other people, whereas for me, asan introvert, while I can draw
my energy from people, I draw itmore so from within.
So like when, when I'm, when Icreate, I don't necessarily have
to be around other people inorder to be inspired.
(01:14):
I could be inspired by what'sgoing on in life.
I could be inspired byliterally looking up in the sky
and seeing a certain shape of acloud like huh.
That makes me think aboutcupcakes.
I'm going to write a song aboutcupcakes.
I like cupcakes, don't do thatI want a cupcake.
Speaker 1 (01:39):
Why would you do that Buttercream icing?
Come on man.
Speaker 2 (01:55):
What's with me, man, what it's just, you know, like
it's just drawing energy fromdifferent places, like where you
draw your energy from, like.
Or you could think about, say,if I look up in the sky like huh
, that makes me think about acupcake, then I kind of sort of
kind of sit with that thought inmy mind, in my heart, in my
spirit, like, hmm, how can Iflip cupcakes into a song that
actually has a little bit moremeaning, which I have done
plenty of times, you know.
I said I could, I could takesomething as simple as what is
(02:18):
the song that I took and flippedinto something butterflies.
I don't even remember the songbecause I don't even have the
song one, uh, gladiator, who, uh, yeah, he has the song.
He never released it, but itwas a song about butterflies.
So I literally sat and likestudied what butterflies do, how
butterflies do it in order tomake it a metaphor for love and
(02:44):
so like.
But that's the type of stuffI'll do, like I'll just sit with
myself and be like you know, orreally sit with God and be like
, okay, how can we approach thissong and make this what it is?
So that's really when I definemyself as an introvert is that I
don't like to sayself-sufficient, because I'm
(03:05):
never truly like myself, doesn'tjust suffice if, if that makes
sense, yeah, you know.
But at the same time I draw fromkind of sort of like just
really sitting and thinkingabout things, um, feeling my
feelings, thinking my thoughts,thinking about things, um,
(03:27):
filling my feelings, thinking mythoughts, really doing like
analysis in my mind or just kindof being more of an observer
than a person that has to feellike they have to fill the room
with words and energy andtalking and you know all of that
stuff and there's nothing wrongwith that.
But for me, like when I, when Iinteract with other, it takes
more out of me than, say,somebody that's an extrovert.
(03:48):
An extrovert can probably, likeyou know people for hours and
hours and hours and be just fine, whereas like an introvert it's
like that's cool, now I need togo off in this corner and
recharge so I can go peopleagain.
You know, it takes a little bitmore out of an introvert to
people than it does for somebodywho's not, you know.
So it's really just anintrovert, is just somebody
(04:10):
who's like just inwardly chargedand energized.
Speaker 1 (04:16):
Inwardly charged and energized Inwardly.
You keep using the word study.
You used it all during theinterview, the conversation.
The word study came up so manytimes that it's something that
you do.
You study your art, your craft,you study your own thoughts.
(04:40):
Yes, you study.
What was this something?
How did you start doing that?
How did you know that that wassomething you needed to do?
Speaker 2 (04:53):
well, um, probably the simplest answer is my
mother's a school teacher.
Uh, well, she's a.
Now she's a retired schoolteacher, 43 years in DCPS, and
that is yes, yes, yes, and agood amount of that time was in
Southeast DC.
(05:14):
So say less.
So you know, growing up on theeast of the river, you already
know.
But because she was a schoolteacher and one of the things
that she used to always tell me,whenever I would ask her what a
word meant, she would tell meto go look it up and she would
(05:34):
tell me she's like I could tellyou what this means.
But remember, I'm not adictionary.
We have a dictionary, so youshould go look it up.
So my mom, between my mom mom,between my humanities 10th grade
humanities teacher actually,she was my 10th and 12th grade
humanities teacher.
Shout out to miss anna kinsman,school without walls, senior
high school uh, she was a typeof person like when we would
(05:58):
read, she, if we got to a wordthat was a word that she even
thought we didn't know.
And if we got to the word andwe didn't know it, we would get
embarrassed in front of theclass because she'd be like look
, how are you reading somethingand you don't know what it means
.
So from the first time she everdid that to me was the last
(06:19):
time she ever did that to me Iwas like, oh no, every single
time that I don't know something, I write it down, I take notes
on it, and so that whole betweenmy mother, between miss kinsman
and you know a lot of differentexperiences in life.
I've become a student of prettymuch everything, like I have.
Actually I should have wore theshirt tonight since I said
(06:41):
study so much.
I have a shirt from mymerchandise line that says
student of life, for life.
Because if you're not constantlystudying life, then you might
as well not be living.
Because what do you really?
How are you evolving, how areyou learning, how are you
growing, if you're notconstantly studying the things
(07:03):
that make you you and the thingsthat make the world around it
function the way it functions?
You know I'm saying if you'renot, and if you're, you know
spiritual like we are.
You know I'm saying if you'regod revering people, because I
don't like saying god fearing, Ilike saying god revering, yes,
because we are in reverence ofgod, we're not in fear of god,
(07:24):
because fear and faith cannotcoexist.
So we're god revering people,we, we, we sit in awe of who he
is.
You know I'm saying so.
If you're not studying thyselfto be approved, then how then?
How can then?
How can you be, you know?
Speaker 1 (07:44):
that right there, that part right there, and that
is AJ throwback.
Ladies and gentlemen, you havejust been schooled on studying.
That is how in depth that oneword yields all of that
information.
Amazing you are.
(08:05):
I appreciate you.
Yes, my goodness, this was.
I know you were like where isshe going with Prince?
Speaker 2 (08:17):
but you know it's funny and I should have said
this during the podcast.
What's interesting about yousaying that?
I have a song calledindependence avenue, where and
it's a song about being anindependent artist, and in the
song I referenced the wholething of prince having written
slave on his face.
(08:39):
I said, and I should.
This should have been the.
This should have been the lyric.
Oh, I'm so mad at myself nowbecause it should have been the
lyric.
I'm so mad at myself nowbecause it should have been the
lyric.
What should have been the lyric?
Go ahead.
I said I'm a king, walk aroundwearing master on my face.
That should have been the lyric.
I'm so mad I didn't say that Ican't cause it's one of the
(09:05):
illest bars I've ever writtenbecause, like, instantly, I had
Prince in my the entire time.
I was thinking about Princewhen I wrote that song the
entire time.
That's that's why it made sense, like to me, that you used
Prince, because, like I thoughtabout that line and I thought
about everything he went throughat Warner Brothers and all of
(09:27):
the nonsense that he had toendure and the whole thing of
him wearing slave on his face.
That was so powerful.
I was like I don't ever want tobe in that position where I
feel like somebody is trying totake me for a ride and take my
money, take my identity, take mylikeness, take everything that
(09:49):
I've worked so hard to build andsay it's theirs.
Speaker 1 (09:53):
Right, you create it.
Speaker 2 (09:56):
Yep and say it's theirs.
I don't have any right to it, Ican't own my masters, you know.
That's why I like I think aboutthat.
I also think about there's aline Jay-Z said in this song no
Hook, where he said he justsimply said it slaves, own your
masters.
And that bar alone could haveso many different meanings.
(10:23):
But for somebody who ended upwalking away, when he ended up
starting rock nation, leavingDef Jam, leaving Rockefeller, he
ended up taking his mastersfrom all of his music that he
did with, with Rockefeller,under the Island Def Jam pool,
and he owned his masters.
And from there it was like Ilook at what Prince went through
(10:45):
, look at what jay-z wentthrough, and it's like that's
how I want to move, like, andit's not just the ownership, of
saying oh, I just own it, it'sabout making sure that you've
done all of the business behindowning it.
It's not enough just to own it,yes, but you got to put the
business behind it.
You got to make sure that youcross all the t's, dot all the
(11:07):
i's and if you got an uppercaseq, slash all your q's, you know,
because otherwise it's just aoh.
You just look at oh, oh, oh, mygoodness, oh, what happened
Exactly.
See, oh man, exactly, exactly.
Speaker 1 (11:31):
I'm alone.
Speaker 2 (11:35):
You picked up exactly what I was putting down.
I can't do this.
Speaker 1 (11:44):
Oh my goodness, all of that, wow, okay, yeah, yep,
that was amazing.
Speaker 2 (11:52):
Yes.
Speaker 1 (11:53):
This is still stuff that can go out.
Speaker 2 (11:55):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (11:56):
Because I recorded it , so I'll give it to you.
Speaker 2 (11:58):
I appreciate it, I appreciate it.
Speaker 1 (12:00):
Yeah, that's hot.
Speaker 2 (12:02):
Yeah, that's hot yeah .
Speaker 1 (12:03):
That's hot.
Yeah, that was hot.
Yeah, now you're making methink I thought.
When I started the show I saideverybody is like what, what?
And that's kind of me havingpeople really be lost at the
beginning.
It's only for the people thatare waiting for the other shoe
(12:25):
to drop.
So if you log off going yeah, Idon't know what this is about
don't stay for the punch yeah,yeah, exactly I don't know what
to tell you.
I don't know what how my mindthinks I just jump right into
something and you're going what,what, what?
Even the domestic violence oneI did just starting with the
(12:49):
fact that Tina Turner had justpassed.
Speaker 2 (12:52):
Yeah, yeah.
Speaker 1 (12:54):
To go to Ike Turner and everything.
And then that's my the factthat I didn't even realize
Independence Day is coming up.
Speaker 2 (13:04):
Look at what I titled the episode Independence Day is
coming up.
Look at what I titled theepisode Yep, yep, yep.
Speaker 1 (13:10):
Those are my nods, my winks from God.
Speaker 2 (13:14):
You're on the right track.
Speaker 1 (13:15):
You're doing the right thing Veterans Day.
I had no idea I wasinterviewing a veteran until an
hour before somebody texted me.
It was like so, apropos, you'reinterviewing a veteran.
I was like what?
Speaker 2 (13:25):
Wowo, you're interviewing a veteran.
I was like what I am?
Look at, God I am.
I had no idea.
Speaker 1 (13:32):
I had no idea.
Speaker 2 (13:33):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (13:34):
So when I say God is really, I know that I'm doing
the right thing.
I know that I'm not doing thisjust to hear myself talk or to
be in front of the camera.
My kids even know.
They're like wait, you're onsocial media.
I didn't start.
I didn't start instagram untildecember the 22nd we're only
what.
How many months into this year,the seventh, we're going to the
(13:57):
seventh month.
So that means I've been, I'vebeen on social media for seven
months yep, yep already starteda podcast already just I'm not
gonna lie.
Speaker 2 (14:07):
When I saw you get on social media, I was like hold
on, hold on, like yes, yes, yes.
I was like let's go, let's go.
Speaker 1 (14:27):
That thing is so.
My kids was like you know, youtold us we can't do this.
I said, yes, kids.
No, you know where I work youknow what.
I see I'm like yeah, nah, we'renot doing that.
If you're going to make, yourmistakes in life you're gonna
make your mistakes in life.
You're gonna make them inprivate, like I got a chance to
(14:48):
make mine right.
I made mistakes, so I never,ever, held them to this
unrealistic expectation ofperfection.
But my goal was to make sureyou didn't live your life out in
front of everybody.
And you were able to make yourmistakes in profit.
Speaker 2 (15:10):
Yep.
Speaker 1 (15:11):
Those are to be made in private.
I couldn't get.
I'm like, why are people outhere with their phones up just
posting random people?
I was in McDonald's withsomebody and she was like, oh my
goodness, I got to post this.
I got to post this and I'm likewhat are you posting?
I turn around, it's a littlekid at the counter in their
thermal sleeping clothes.
Yes, it was July.
Speaker 2 (15:33):
Oh, wow.
Speaker 1 (15:34):
Yes, those were clearly flannels, but I'm like
that's a kid.
Speaker 2 (15:38):
Right, it's certain things.
Like you got to know the limits, you know that's a kid.
Like you gotta know the limits,you know it's.
I think, and and people I talkto all the time that's from a
certain generation, you know.
I mean we, we from thatgeneration for real.
For real, like if you pullingout phones, people looking at
you like uh, what you doing, bro?
Speaker 1 (15:57):
like you popo, like what's up like you know what, we
, the ones that came up with thephrase what happens in vegas?
Right exactly exactly recordingof it on your phone nope, nope,
nope if you were, the onlypeople who knew was the people
(16:19):
who was there exactly, exactly.
But now it's cameras everywhere.
But the crazy thing is so me,just me and my conspiracy thing
Watch it, watch it, watch it.
This is the last thing on theplay.
Watch it, watch it, watch it.
They wanted to pass a bill toput cameras everywhere.
They knocked it down.
(16:41):
They found a whole differentway of doing it by putting it in
our phones.
Speaker 2 (16:47):
Yep.
Speaker 1 (16:48):
Having social media where we post everything.
Speaker 2 (16:51):
Mm-hmm.
Speaker 1 (16:54):
And then having people do the door ring, yep
Inside cameras.
Speaker 2 (16:59):
Yep.
Speaker 1 (17:00):
All of that.
Speaker 2 (17:01):
Yep.
Speaker 1 (17:02):
They found.
They said no, we're not goingto do it, but then they found
another way for us to do it toourselves.
Yep, yep.
They found that they.
They said, no, we're not goingto do it, but then they found
another way for us to do it toourselves.
Yep, yep, big brothers watchingthat part right there, that part
right there.
So I used to tell my I used totake my laptop and put a sticky
on top of my camera and my sonwould be like, why do you keep
doing that?
(17:22):
I said, yeah, it's just me.
I don't trust it.
I put stickies on top of thecamera on my laptop, the camera
on my TV.
Why, my TV got a camera.
Nope, post it.
We're going to cover all ofthose, we're just going to do
that.
Speaker 2 (17:38):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (17:39):
Yeah, Now I call.
I did a virtual meeting withhim and I go Manuel, I can't see
you.
He said, oh, my cover's stillon.
I said, oh, you got a cover onyour camera.
Speaker 2 (17:49):
Yeah, yeah, why you?
Speaker 1 (17:51):
got a cover on your camera, son, because, ma you
never know, somebody could be.
Oh, in my mind I'm like oh, nowshe not crazy?
Speaker 2 (18:02):
Yeah, they got the little slide joints you can do.
I actually need one for myphone because I have one for my
laptop.
Like, if I'm not doingsomething like this, I just poop
, yeah, like, yeah, nah on myphone.
Speaker 1 (18:17):
I wouldn't take it in the bathroom, in the shower,
because one time I looked downand on my phone there was
literally a picture of me and mytowel getting going to turn the
water.
On my phone oh, wow I said, wait, I didn't, never mind, I just
(18:37):
stopped taking it in thebathroom.
It sounds crazy.
So yeah, I would love to have,because I used to put tape on
top.
I used to take the sticky, thesticky part on top.
I used to tape the sticky parton top of my stuff.
My son, my listen, I don't carewhat you think, it's what I
think.
That make me comfortable.
I'm good, I ain't making youput one on yours.
(18:57):
I can put it on mine.
Oh yeah, all right, I'm goingto leave you alone now.
I appreciate you.
Thank you, thank you.
Speaker 2 (19:05):
Thank you, I appreciate you.
This was excellent, excellent,excellent, excellent.
Speaker 1 (19:10):
I had a great time tonight listen, you should have
had a great time.
Do you know the work you mademe put in someone who knows more
about music than you?
Yeah, nah, tell that brotherstay on the other side of the
room.
No, I don't want to interviewhim.
I'm like, wait what?
I was watching interviews ofyou and I was like, okay, that
(19:33):
dude asked this.
This dude went oh, he unpackeda whole big old, he asked for
this much.
You gave so much in-depthinformation that it's impossible
for someone to not have a fullunderstanding of what you were
speaking about.
So, e as I've seen youinterview very good, amazing
(19:56):
interviewer thank you to see yoube interviewed and the command
and authority that you have onthe topics that you discuss, and
the way that you just catch thequestion and go oh, okay, let
me.
There, you go, but I'm not justsending one ball, it's going to
be so much information.
(20:19):
It's undeniable that I know whatI'm talking about.
It's so rich in history you cansee the study of the things
that you do.
It's just so rich in the lovethat you have, for it is evident
in what you do and the lovethat you have for the
(20:42):
information to be out and beaccurate and to be known,
because you take it and yousimplify it in such a way that
you definitely somebody can walkaway.
Every conversation I have withyou, I walk away with a better
understanding of whatever thatis I ask, and that's exactly how
you do, uh, as the person thatis being interviewed.
(21:04):
so I thank you for the exampleof being an interviewer and, um,
yeah, I'm gonna have to listen.
Speaker 2 (21:16):
I had to step up.
I had to step up, girl, girlthis boy ready for him.
Speaker 1 (21:19):
You better know that sugar hill gang song I can't go.
What's that?
What's that?
What's?
That's not good enough.
You gotta be listen this dudeup here.
You can't stay down here andlet him.
You need to come.
I need you to get up here.
You can have this conversation,it's best to have a
conversation, at least in thesame realm, on the same level,
(21:43):
and I really do appreciate you.
Because of you, I did have toraise the game, raise, raise the
bar, and I appreciate it.
Speaker 2 (21:51):
Yeah, yeah, no doubt, no doubt.
And it's so funny that you hadmentioned Sugar Hill Gang,
because that was.
I'm glad that you said it,because I didn't get to say that
when I was saying, like therecords that were laying around,
saying like the records thatwere laying around, like the
most memorable one that Iremember was the label.
(22:12):
You know, with the vinyls theyhad the little stickers on the
label and the sugar hill gangalways had one of the coolest
ones to me, you know, because itwas just so like them solar
records, um, and it was likeanother one.
I want to say it was likecasablanca records.
They all had like some of thecoolest stickers on their vinyl
because it was so colorful andso intricate.
(22:35):
You know, I mean like sugarhill gang, like just like that,
that little colorful, like howto it would curl around and all
that, and it was blue.
I was like yo, they had theirjoints was like like that, like
I absolutely like it made mewant to listen to their music.
You know, like I didn't evenhave to see like the album cover
, just show me a really coolsticker on the vinyl and like
(22:57):
you'll get my attention, youknow so even in that, even the
sticker on the vinyl, do youremember eight tracks?
oh yeah oh yeah my uh, you'rewhat well with my uncle, so like
I never actually listened tomusic on eight tracks.
But my uncle, may he rest inpeace, my uncle raymond, he had
(23:19):
a bunch of eight tracks justlaying around.
He had an eight track playerthat didn't work, but he had a
bunch of eight tracks layingaround.
I was like what are these?
And my mom was like those areeight tracks.
Like what are eight?
And my mom was like those are 8tracks.
They were like cassettes beforecassettes.
Speaker 1 (23:32):
I was like oh okay right, and then cassettes, but
then the 45 and then the wholealbum and then you go to now,
everything is digital yeah, howdo you feel would you go to now?
Everything is digital.
Yeah, yeah, how do you feel?
Would you like to put your yourmusic out as an album?
Speaker 2 (23:56):
yes actual vinyl album yes, yes, like when I put
out my full-length album, um, Iwant to pull it out, I want to
put it out on vinyl.
I want to put out on vinyl andI want to put out on cassette
and I want to put out on cd.
I want to put out on all themediums that I came up with.
You know, I'm saying like Icame up on cds, I came up on
(24:17):
cassettes, I came up on vinyl.
So I want to be able to put thealbum on all of those mediums.
Number one, because I came upon it.
Number two, and this isn'tbragging, I don't want it to
come across as bragging.
This is me just understandingthe greatness that I put into
(24:38):
what I do and the effort that Iput into what I do.
I feel like my album will bevinyl worthy, because not all
albums are vinyl worthy, will bevinyl worthy, because not all
albums are vinyl worthy.
You know.
You know some albums like, uh,you could have just put that on
mp3, that was fine, that wascool.
You know, you just left itthere.
Like this project that I'mputting together, like this is
(25:01):
going to be a vinyl worthyproject.
So I definitely, I definitelywant it on vinyl a vinyl worthy
project, come on here.
Speaker 1 (25:10):
A vinyl worthy project, so, because when they
give awards, they still give youout a gold record, a platinum
record, even though most thingsnow are digital that's right.
Speaker 2 (25:24):
That's right because it's like you know what are you
going to do a gold, or platinum,or diamond I don't even know
what like the equivalent for anMP3 or wave or whatever would be
.
It's like I don't know.
I don't know.
A flash drive, a gold, right?
Speaker 1 (25:45):
Benalubi, benalubi, yeah so my favorite album was
Purple Rain.
I literally was able to go andget a 45 from the record store
and it had him on it and thealbum itself was purple.
(26:09):
Yeah, yeah, yeah, just thethings that you could do with
albums.
My God, my favorite.
I can't, I can't lie the onethat I wore out.
I used to listen to Al Jarreau,I used to listen to Phyllis
Hyman.
I had prints on repeat all day,every day, as I would go and
(26:30):
come back from two hours to getto school, two hours to get back
from school and lunchtime yeah,that was Prince.
Yeah, when I would get home, Icannot feel.
The one that got the most playwas Michael Jackson, off the
wall.
Speaker 2 (26:45):
Oh yes, oh yes, oh yes.
Speaker 1 (26:47):
As far as an album.
Speaker 2 (26:48):
Yeah, because.
Speaker 1 (26:49):
I had my cassette so I was listening to Prince going
and coming.
That was all day everywhere.
But that off the wall album, ohmy gosh.
Speaker 2 (26:59):
Yeah, yeah, and there's always a debate on which
one is better off the wall orthriller.
Now, when I was a kid I wouldhave said thriller, but as an
adult who's lived, who's satwith music a little bit more,
and when I really listened tothe I won't say the purity,
(27:19):
because thriller has its owntype of level of purity
musically, but thriller is alittle bit more polished than
off the wall, whereas off thewall still has a little bit of a
little bit of grit to it that I, like you know, like it's still
, it's like the end of disco,but not disco.
(27:42):
Then you think about a song likeI can't help it, which is like
the blueprint for like so muchtheory, music theory that gets
learned, like I feel, likeeverybody learns.
I can't help it, they learn howto play that song.
If you're a musician musicianyou know I'm saying so you don't
have a song like that onThriller, it's only on Off the
(28:02):
Wall, you know.
So whenever I think about likewhich album to me, like I
gravitate more toward listeningto, it's off the wall, it's just
, it's just sonically like to be1979 and put that album out
like mike was ahead of his timeyeah quincy jones was ahead of
(28:24):
his time.
Rod temperton was ahead of histime.
Speaker 1 (28:26):
Yeah, you know, and that's of his time.
Speaker 2 (28:27):
Yeah, you know, and that's some.
That's somebody who does notget enough props.
Rod Temperton, who was withHeat Wave that was a group that
he was with and the stuff thathe was involved in.
Whether you talk in Heat Wave,whether you talk in Michael
Jackson, whether you talk inGeorge Benson, like pretty much
anybody who Quincy Jones wastouching back in the late 70s,
(28:51):
early 80s James Ingram, PattyAustin, you know, the list goes
on and on and on, Like wheneverI think about the Neptunes with
Chad and Pharrell.
Speaker 1 (29:02):
Yes.
Speaker 2 (29:03):
I almost want to say that, like Rod Temperton was the
Chad and Quincy Jones was thePharrell, because Quincy Jones
was the face guy, like everybodyknew Quincy, whereas not
everybody kind of sort of knewwho Rod Temperton was.
But Rod Temperton had so muchlike musicianship, songwriting
(29:24):
abilities going on for him hewas like the secret weapon.
You know of that whole thinggoing on, you know, so you put
him and Quincy Jones and MichaelJackson together for that first
album that they did together.
I mean, it was just, it wasjust incredible.
It was just incredible, right.
Speaker 1 (29:42):
Right.
So that's how I feel aboutPrince.
I think that Prince is such aunique style Nothing he would
put out things nobody wasputting out.
Under the cherry moon, nobodywas putting out anything like
Purple Rain Nobody.
Moon, nobody was putting out,uh, anything like purple rain
(30:03):
nobody.
But he was never mistakenly byour culture.
We never mistook that he wastalking to us, to me.
I never mistook that he wastalking to me telling my story
or anything.
Nothing, nothing in me, ever.
Sometimes an artist comes outand they do different types of
music and our culture will go oh, they're not with us.
(30:26):
I never felt that way aboutPrince, but I feel like his
music was always so unique itwas nothing like it.
Speaker 2 (30:45):
Nothing could compare .
That's crazy nothing compared.
Speaker 1 (30:46):
Okay, because that's also wait, wait, wait, you found
a song, so yeah it, and sothat's why how I feel about, and
I think he purposely made surehe was unique and different I
don't think he wanted to looklike anyone else.
I don't think he wanted tosound like anyone else.
I think he took his craft veryseriously, to the point that he
(31:09):
taught himself over 20instruments yeah, he taught
himself by ear yeah, that'sincredible all of those and then
his first album.
He played all of thoseinstruments.
That was all him yeah just to bethat intricate, to be 15 and go
(31:29):
, yeah, nah, not unless I wantto produce my own.
There's nobody that I know isgoing to be able to do what I
envision for me, the way that Isee for me.
I don't want to sign.
So he already knew in his mindyeah, if I sign that paper the
(31:52):
way you got it written, I haveto do whatever you say.
You get to pick my clothes, youget to pick my songs.
You get to pick my songs.
You pick the producer.
I have to record whatever yousay I have to record.
I want to record what I want torecord.
So the freedom that he got justfrom that first move of not
taking the contract for fouryears For them to understand
(32:16):
dude, he's really not going tosign this nightclub.
No, I'm not.
You need to fix that.
He's really not gonna sign thisnight, but no, I'm not.
Speaker 2 (32:19):
Yeah I'm not doing it .
Yeah, that's why, I connect withhim so much, you know, like
artistically and business wise,because this is something a lot
of people don't talk about whenit comes to prince.
Prince was, like, one of thefirst artists to sell his music
on his own website.
You know he was, he was kind ofband camp before band camp was,
(32:42):
you know, like he, because hehad to be, because he had to
figure out a different way to dothis thing than what was being
done at the time, like you'retalking about.
This is the late 90s.
That he did this like Prince isalways ahead of the curve at in
some form of fashion, whetherit's creatively, whether it's
(33:03):
business wise, and he had to getjerked in order to, you know,
be ahead of the curve.
But he managed to do it in away that, because I think I
remember hearing him I don'tknow whether Nas told the story
or whether somebody told thestory about naz, but prince
pulled naz aside and told himlike basically taught him how to
(33:27):
be better at his business ahbecause it was like he saw what
was going on.
You know, naz being on columbia,um, he was like look, you got
to do this differently.
You know, I respect you as anartist, I think you're awesome,
but you got to do your businessdifferently.
You know, and that's that's biglike if prince is telling you
(33:48):
that that means he actuallyrocks with you as an artist and
as a person enough to actuallygive you that tutelage, you know
that's why he started doinginterviews.
Speaker 1 (33:59):
Everybody's like oh, he's starting to do interviews
because he doesn't feel relevant, he doesn't feel this.
No, he started doing interviewsbecause he wanted to make sure.
He said no, I want to make surethe younger generation doesn't
lose the authenticity of music.
Yep, if you're going tosynthesizers and you're just
(34:21):
computerizing everything, you'relosing the authenticity of
music.
So I'm here, I'm speaking now.
I'm not speaking for personalthings.
I'm speaking to educate theyouth, the ones that are coming
up now.
I'm like, oh wait, this isgoing wrong.
I'm gonna need to say something, I'm gonna have to start
(34:44):
speaking, and that's why hestarted interviewing yeah, yeah,
I think that's why I'd likethinking about what you just
said.
Speaker 2 (34:50):
I think that's why I like he's such a huge or he was
such a huge fan of Janelle Monae, because Janelle Monae is
probably the new age answer ornew age kind of version of
Prince at this stage, because,like, what she does is so
different than what anybody elseis has been doing.
(35:14):
I mean, she started off thatway.
I will never forget the firsttime.
The first time, no, the firstout of two times.
I've actually seen JanelleMonae live twice and both times
that I seen her I think theywere about 10 years apart.
So the first time I saw her shewas actually an artist under
big boy on his purple I think itwas purple ribbon label.
(35:36):
Uh, because it was her and hisother artist named Scar.
When I say that the crowddidn't know what to do with her
because we were at the Zanzibar,mind you, that crowd didn't.
That crowd, that crowd had cometo see Glenn Jones and I think,
like John B, that crowd did notknow what to do with Janelle
(35:56):
Monae.
I knew what to do with herbecause I had already known of
her, but they did not know whatto do with her.
Fast forward 11 years later, Isee her at the Fillmore in Miami
and that stadium is packed forher, because she made a career
of being herself, beingauthentic and true to who she
(36:18):
was, and it took having peoplelike prince to believe in her
and to encourage her to continueto lean into that and be who
you are artistically, and peopleare going to rock with you.
You know, I'm saying, likeyou're going to have supporters,
you're going to have likeyou're not just going to have
fleeting supporters, you'regoing to have steady supporters.
Yeah, you know, and that's whatit's about in this game.
(36:40):
It's.
You know, it's funny, because Iwas just having a conversation
with somebody about, uh, rap andwe were talking about how, a
lot of times, rappers feel theneed to copy off of other people
in order to like be accepted inthe industry, because the
industry tells you you can onlytalk about, like, this limited
(37:01):
amount of subjects.
I forget what we were talkingabout.
Oh, artists not evolving withtheir, with their supporters,
not realizing that theirsupporters want more out of them
, um, and so you know, I I hadcommented.
I forget what my comment was,but one of the people that he
(37:22):
mentioned was Kanye and he wassaying how Kanye was given the
permission once he was popularand I was like, well, actually
he was different from the start.
He didn't sound like anybodyfrom the start.
So I don't think it was so muchabout him being given
permission Right Once he waspopular it's about.
(37:45):
It was always about him sayingI can sign my own permission
slip, I'm good.
Speaker 1 (37:51):
Always, always.
He was asking me.
He was like OK, you want to actlike that.
Fine, I'll do it.
Speaker 2 (37:59):
Right, exactly he was asking me.
He was like okay, you want toact like that, fine, I'll do it
right.
Speaker 1 (38:01):
Exactly, I'll do it get in the car Accident and
still do it on the schedule.
I was doing it through somewire On my teeth yep and I'm
still gonna spit.
Speaker 2 (38:09):
Yep, exactly, exactly .
If that isn't a sign Like whoelse has done that Right
successfully to that level, tomake a song with their their
mouth wired shut and that jointBe a hit and every Single word.
Speaker 1 (38:28):
Exactly felt Every single Letter of Every word he
said.
You felt it, you felteverything he meant when he said
that thing.
Yep he's like, oh, and thisain't even going to stop me.
He's like, wait, that didn'tstop you, dude, your jaw is
wired, shit.
(38:48):
Schedule the studio.
Speaker 2 (38:50):
Yep, exactly, I'm paying for it.
What's the problem, mm-hmm Likehey, I want to record.
And then like, hey, I want torecord and then start the
journal talking about a boostfor breakfast, an ensure for
dessert they had the pancakes.
I just sipped the scissor like,come on, you start the song off
.
Clever, you know, and visual,like you see everything that he
(39:12):
said.
Like who else starts a song offlike this is the first song
that Rockefeller is actuallygiving you.
I mean, you had to twist theirarm to make them release a song
on you as their in-house, one oftheir in-house producers, and
you had to make believers out ofthem.
He started his whole career wasI'm going to take charge.
(39:33):
I'm not going to let anybodygive me the permission to be who
I am.
This is who I am and I'm goingto continue to be who I am, for
better or worse, with Kanye.
But but he still took charge ofhis own destiny.
And the point that I was makingto the brother was if every
artist did that yeah theindustry would be at the mercy
(39:56):
of the artists, and not theother way around.
Speaker 1 (39:59):
Yes, yes, sir, yes, sir, yes, sir, but I love that
you came on here tonight and youtold people how to make their
own stage.
Speaker 2 (40:09):
Yes, yes, how to make their own stage.
Mm, hmm, mm, hmm, it's important, it's important, it's important
, it's important.
You know, the key thing is andthis is something I should have
mentioned during the show too is, in terms of blueprint,
figuring out who your art, youraudience is.
The worst thing you can do asany artist, independent, major,
(40:40):
whatever is say oh, I want tomake music for everybody, the
music ain't for everybody, likethat's.
The first thing that you got tounderstand as an artist is that
your music is not for everybody.
You have to go out and you haveto find your audience.
Yeah, and it might now, granted,that audience might be wide
ranging, but that still doesn'tmean that your music is for
everybody.
If you make a specific type ofmusic, you have to find a few
(41:03):
people that rock with you andkeep magnifying those people,
those types of people, and, likeI said, they may look different
, they may come from differentbackgrounds, they might, um,
like different things.
Some might like sports, somemight like anime things, some
might like sports, some mightlike anime.
Whatever it might be, you mightfind a bunch of people in
between, but the bottom line isfiguring out who your audience
(41:26):
is and just continuing tomagnify that audience.
Your audience is not everybody.
Speaker 1 (41:33):
Because I know that your audience is.
You make grown man music.
Speaker 2 (41:42):
Very grown I am.
I am not in my 20s anymore, I'magain.
I am.
I will be 44 years old inseptember.
Uh, I don't make music for 20years, but but I make music that
a lot of 20olds can findthemselves in, because I talk
about life, I talk about myexperience and I don't just talk
about my experience as justbeing the age that I am.
(42:04):
I try to do my best to bring itbackward and bring it forward
and talk about the lessons thatI learn.
So it's almost to the point.
And once again I quote Jay-Z,the line where he said I think
it was in what's the joint H tothe Izzo, where he was like Hove
(42:24):
did that, so hopefully youdon't have to go through that,
like that's how I feel.
Joe did that, so hopefully youdon't have to go through that.
You know?
Or Joe did that.
Speaker 1 (42:33):
Hopefully you will go through that and better, come
on here because you weredefinitely an example to be seen
and understood and gleaned fromtonight.
My God, I appreciate that.
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