May 15, 2024 • 57 mins
Ever Wonder What Happens When the Curtain Closes? (But Not in a Scary Way!)
Life is beautiful, chaotic, and...well, it ends eventually. But hear me out, what if we could make that ending a little more peaceful, a little more supported for ourselves and our loved ones? ️
That's where the amazing folks called end-of-life doulas come in! They're not doctors (although they work closely with them), they're more like guides on this final journey. Think of them as doulas for your soul's transition. ✨
In this episode of "Connect-Empower," we meet Janice Lombardo, a real-life end-of-life doula with a heart of gold. She'll share some incredible stories about the compassionate care she provides during this sensitive time. (Get ready for some serious inspiration!)
Plus, we'll uncover 5 key tips to help you navigate end-of-life care with an end-of-life doula by your side. These are the things NO ONE tells you, but can make a world of difference:
- How to start those tough conversations (without freaking everyone out!)
- Finding the perfect end-of-life doula (because the right fit matters!)
- Creating a rock-solid plan (so everyone knows what to expect)
- Dealing with all the feels (grief, fear, it's all valid!)
- Having a backup plan B (because life, uh, finds a way!)
Listen, this isn't always an easy topic, but it's an IMPORTANT one. By being proactive, we can ensure a smoother transition for ourselves and those we love. ❤️
So, hit that play button, grab a tissue (or two!), and let's talk about making the end a little less scary and a whole lot more empowered!
P.S. Feeling lost? Don't be! We've got resources galore to help you find the support you need. Reach out, explore your options, and remember: you're not alone!
We encourage you to visit our website now at www.connect-empower.com to explore more information on our guest and to access our resources.
To ask us your questions or to share your story, email us at podcast@connect-empower.com.
Be sure to rate, review and follow the podcast so you don’t miss an episode.
CONNECT-EMPOWER WEBSITE
CONNECT-EMPOWER INSTAGRAM
CONNECT-EMPOWER FACEBOOK
CONNECT-EMPOWER LINKEDIN
CONNECT-EMPOWER PINTEREST
CONNECT-EMPOWER TWITTER
Don't forget to share with your family and friends what inspired you or the tips you've learned!
John & Erin
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Janice (00:01):
The journey of being with your loved one when they
are being told by medicalprofessionals that there is
nothing more that they can dofor you.
Medically and that comfort careand, make sure your affairs are
in order.
you hear those words come out ofanother human being's mouth to
(00:21):
the person that you love themost.
And it's devastating, absolutelydevastating.
John (00:38):
Hi, I'm John,
Erin (00:40):
and I'm Erin.
You're listening to connect andpower.
The podcast that proves age isno barrier to growth and
enlightenment
John (00:47):
tune in each week as we break down complex subjects into
bite sized enjoyable episodesthat will leave you feeling
informed, entertained, and readyto conquer the world today we'd
love to welcome our guests,Janice Lombardo.
Welcome, Janice.
Thanks so much for being here.
Erin (01:05):
Hi.
Janice.
Janice (01:06):
Well, thank you.
Thank you, Erin.
John, thank you for having me.
I can't wait to have adiscussion about end of life.
Erin (01:13):
You know, I didn't know there was such a thing as end of
life or death doula until wewere watching crim crim Chris
Hemsworth.
I'm mixing it together his showand it was a very last episode
of the Disney documentary thathe did.
And they brought in a deathdoula and I was like, Oh my
gosh, this is fascinating.
What is This person, what didthey do?
(01:34):
And so I'm so excited to haveyou here to share more about
what it is and the comforts thatyou can bring and the care and
the extra support that youprovide for families going
through a hard time.
So I'm so excited again, like Isaid, to have you here, but if
you could go in and share yourjourney and what led you to do
what you do for others.
Janice (01:55):
Oh, well, this has been a journey of about 30 years in
the making actually.
right after my son was born, Iwoke up in the middle of the
night with a stabbing pain inthe right side of my neck and it
was a little tiny pea sizedlump.
And.
I'm 30 years old at that point,don't know really what's going
(02:17):
on, went to my six week checkup,told the doctor about it, he
said, well, your hormones areout of whack, you're going to
have issues coming up, go homeand enjoy your baby.
That was the beginning of the,the medical gaslighting that I
experienced for the next eightyears.
So December of 1999, go to adermatologist for an unrelated
(02:40):
issue.
And at that point in time, I hadmy daughter.
And the lump still kept growing.
And so when I went to thisdermatologist, you could not
miss it.
It was visibly there.
Every doctor I had been towithin that 8 year period told
me that, Oh yeah, we see it.
We took blood.
Your thyroid levels are fine.
(03:01):
You need to just stop eating somuch and lose weight.
And so when I went to thisdermatologist, he had also taken
blood.
And he told me, your thyroidlevels are really off and I'm
sending you to anendocrinologist.
Didn't know what that was.
Didn't really still know what athyroid was.
Went to see this person a weekbefore Christmas and he's
(03:22):
feeling my neck and he makesthis low guttural sound that
sent my heart into my feet.
Now, I have a 2 year old and an8 year old at home at this point
in time.
Don't really know what's goingon.
And he tells me to come back inthree months.
if it's still there, we'llbiopsy it.
Go back three months, biopsied,stage three plus, at that point,
(03:44):
that they could verify papillarythyroid cancer.
Had surgery, had a completethyroidectomy.
April 11th of this year will bemy 24th anniversary of
survivorship
Erin (03:55):
Congratulations.
Janice (03:56):
from having what they determined was stage four
papillary thyroid cancer thathad mono metastasized.
How that was, uh, is a miracleto me Still today.
That was my cancer journey.
Two and a half years later, mymom is diagnosed with
non-Hodgkin's lymphoma, stagetwo, small B cell.
And so for the next 8 years ofher cancer journey, I am her
(04:21):
primary caregiver.
I'm her medical advocate.
I became a medical advocatebecause of my own experience,
with asking doctors questionsand not being given any answers
and with her.
In order to have any kind ofunderstanding, I really didn't
have time.
My primary focus was keeping heralive, raising my two school
(04:46):
aged children.
I became a substitute teachercause I needed a flexible part
time job so that I wasn'tcompletely out of the workforce,
even though I still have underearned what I should have during
my lifetime.
And now I'm getting closer toretirement age.
And.
All of the trials by fire, mymother's cancer journey, the
(05:10):
first five years, all thedifferent regimens of chemo did
not work.
So what happened was, In thatperiod of time, I never thought
about dying.
I never thought about death.
That was not in my purview.
My, my goal, like I said, was tokeep her alive.
And so we never had end of lifediscussions.
(05:32):
They did update their will ayear before she passed, but I
didn't know anything at thatpoint about end of life.
And it came back to bite mehard.
So when her health took anosedive on Easter Sunday in
2011, and I drove her and myfather to the ER, she never came
(05:57):
home.
the journey of being with yourloved one when they are being
told by medical professionalsthat there is nothing more that
they can do for you.
Medically and that comfort careand, make sure your affairs are
in order.
you hear those words come out ofanother human being's mouth to
(06:18):
the person that you love themost.
And it's devastating, absolutelydevastating.
Now, growing up, death was apart of life, you know, you lost
friends, you lost loved ones,you lost, whatever, you went to
funerals, you did the wholetraditional whatever, but nobody
(06:38):
ever really talked about dying.
No one ever said.
You know that you should bepreparing for this, you know,
you should be having discussionsabout this, you know, there's
more to, body disposal thancremation or burial.
We have so many more optionstoday, but it starts with those
(07:00):
conversations and when you don'thave those conversations chaos.
And it's, it's a shit show, justplain and simple.
So with my mom, I did not knowthat she wanted to die at home,
but I was afraid to let herbecause we weren't prepared.
We never had any discussionsabout it.
(07:21):
I didn't know how my fatherwould take it.
And I was given one day to findsomeplace to bring her to die.
And I told the doctor, what ifit takes me more than a day?
He's like, oh, you should beable to do it.
Well, it took 2 days and he justhad to get over it, but when we
got to the nursing home that wehad found.
She was so angry and it justtore my heart out and it did not
(07:45):
have to be that way.
If we had only had thoseconversations, if I had only had
a glimpse of an idea of what herfinal wishes were, When we got
to the nursing home, she wasfine for the first couple of
days.
My parents celebrated their 51stwedding anniversary that
Saturday.
by Monday, she was in a coma.
(08:09):
And she passed away thefollowing Sunday, which was
actually Mother's Day.
I learned all about hospice inthat time.
And they are an amazinginstitution and I highly
recommend that folks use thembecause it It will enhance your
loved one's last time on thisearth.
(08:32):
It will enhance your ability tofunction, so that we had to make
funeral arrangements while shewas actively dying.
I don't recommend that.
And if you can pre plansomething, great.
If you change your mind afteryou've pre planned it, so you
change your mind.
Nothing is set in stone, butwhen you have no direction, it's
(08:56):
heartbreaking and devastatingall at the same time.
And that's just that one littlepiece.
So for me, as an end of lifedoula, I am non medical because
I'm not a nurse.
I am not a PRN, LPN, any ofthat.
But what I do have is lifeexperience.
What I do have is the ability totalk to any medical professional
(09:19):
almost at their level.
I go ahead and I ask them tospell words.
I ask them for definitions.
I don't have a problem going toeto toe with anyone and no one
ever should.
You should never be intimidatedby the person that is supposed
to be helping you.
And if you are, then it's timeto find someone else.
(09:39):
That being said, my cancerjourney from a patient's
perspective, my mother's cancerjourney from the primary
caregiver and medical advocateperspective is what led me to
become an end of life doula.
during the beginning of thepandemic, just before it hit, I
was actually going to drive fromOhio to Michigan to take a, four
(10:03):
day late, course.
From someone that was offeringit, so it would have been a
certification course to help meto understand today's, medical
field and what as an individualwho is helping guide and educate
others through this processwould know what to do, because
(10:24):
every day there's new thingsthat change new protocols and
all of that.
So being, Aware and being ableto ask questions when you don't
know is really so important.
because when the pandemic hit, Iwas not able to do that.
I found out that there was acollege in Canada Online course
(10:46):
that was self directed, butthere were, professors that you
could ask questions of and workwith to make sure that you were
learning everything that youcould possibly learn in order to
really be able to help anotherindividual now.
I work with individuals, I workwith families, and I am always
(11:07):
very aware of where they're atin the process because I've
lived it.
If you're in the very beginningstages because of a new
diagnosis or a chronic orserious illness, I understand
where you're at.
If you're in the middle phase,where things are kind of moving
along and everything is good,and, If you haven't had those
final wishes talks, I might tryto help you to navigate through
(11:31):
that so that you're not caughtoff guard when everything goes
south really quick because itcan and it has and it does.
So that's how I became an end oflife doula because this is the
third stage of life for me.
I'm a baby boomer.
But I'm also a very loving,caring, holistic, heart centered
(11:55):
person.
I want to help you so that youdon't have to go through what I
went through.
Because there's no reason forit.
I've actually had peoplephysically back away from me in
fear when they find out what Ido.
And I just meet them wherethey're at.
If that's where they're at, thenthat's where they're at.
Erin (12:17):
Well, your story is so powerful, right?
Because a lot of times peopledon't understand until they go
through it.
I wish I would have known.
Why didn't somebody tell me?
Janice (12:27):
Yes.
Erin (12:28):
And you're preaching what we've been preaching, right?
You need to be proactive.
You've got to have yourselfready so that your loved one Is
not having to go through, I'mabout ready to lose a loved one,
but yet I don't understand.
And like you said, with yourmom, I didn't know she wanted to
die at home.
Janice (12:47):
Yes.
Erin (12:48):
We could have made that happen had we known and made
arrangements and it would havemade life easier on all of us.
Right.
Janice (12:54):
Yes, absolutely.
it was a gut punch, and it justtore my heart out when she was
so upset.
John (13:02):
Yeah, I feel, you know, I served in the hospice arena for
a whole bunch of years and I'veworked with doulas in the past
and I know what a integral partof the whole care system at end
of life, how that serves.
and How it really enriches theexperience, not only for the
person that's going through endof life, but their family to
have that added, support.
(13:24):
So thank you for what you do andyour investment Yeah.
And other people and helpingthem navigate that.
So if you can share a little bitabout your role and how it kind
of differs from traditionalmedical professionals.
because I know that they havetheir way of doing them and
doulas is a little bit of adifferent approach.
(13:44):
And so if you can share thedifferences, that'd be great.
Janice (13:48):
okay, from a medical approach, they have protocols.
You have these symptoms, this iswhat we do.
Boom, boom, boom.
There's no varying from it.
They don't have, patientcentered treatment options at
all times.
as an end of life doula, or amedical advocate, I'm there to
(14:09):
say, Okay.
let's look at all of the factshere.
Let's see what other options areavailable to you.
If that is not something thatyou're willing to go through
with.
like I said, I worked withhospice.
they are very limited in theamount of time that they can
spend with a person or theirfamily.
(14:31):
And because of that, my roleactually bridges the gap in
time.
So, you need 3 or 4 hours.
You might need to go take a napbecause you're the primary
caregiver, or you have to run toan appointment yourself and
you're afraid to leave yourloved one at home or wherever
they're at by themselves.
(14:52):
That's caregiver respite.
I'm happy to fill in for you sothat you don't have to worry
what's going on when you're notthere.
I also have other resources thatare local, depending on where
you're at, that, you need,handrails in your house.
Do you have an organizationwithin your community that works
(15:15):
and helps with seniors in thatcapacity?
Do you need a sounding board?
You have three siblings andyou're all fighting.
You're either fighting over theinheritance that you shouldn't
be worried about because thatmoney isn't yours.
That money needs to be spent onyour loved one's care.
(15:35):
And I don't get me started inhow many times I've seen
families implode just because offinances.
one of the really integral partsof being an end of life doula is
helping Individuals, if nobodywants to talk with them because
they want to talk about death,they want to talk about what
(15:56):
they're feeling and they don'thave a family member that can
sit there and listen.
I'm that person that will sitthere and listen.
I'm happy to let you processthat whole thing when you're not
in an imminent death situation,all those thoughts go through
your head.
(16:17):
I know for me, those thoughtswent through my head and who's
going to take care of my kidsand how is things going to work
out?
And, I don't have any supportand, all of the different
worries and things that youdon't necessarily think about
because you didn't have to dealwith them before when they're
right in your face.
Where do you go for support?
(16:38):
That's where an end of lifedoula comes in.
We are your support, yourdaughter or your son or your
cousin or your mom or your dad,whoever you need.
Us to be, we can be that for youin that capacity to be open
hearted and holistic and share.
(16:59):
So being able to, trust anotherindividual in that role.
Sometimes it's easier with astranger than it is with your
own family members, becauseeverybody knows how to push
everybody's buttons and.
I don't have that.
You can't push my buttons andI'm not going to be able to push
(17:21):
yours.
I'm just going to sit here andlet you talk, or I'm going to,
share with you some,possibilities of courses of
action that you can take thatmaybe you hadn't thought of.
in a way, as an end of lifedoula, we are not governed by
any kind of governmentregulation.
So I'm not a nurse.
I don't have to take a statemandated test for anything.
(17:42):
But what I do do is provide youwith what experiences I've had.
I know how to do research.
I know where to find answersthat maybe you don't know where
to go because you're just sooverwhelmed.
So.
In a way, bridging the gapbetween palliative care hospice
care, or just, being that extrasupport in the background and
(18:05):
that's what we do.
We provide the services on a payper.
The schedule, some folks do itby the hour.
Some do it by the, the day orwhatever you need, we are
flexible enough to handle that.
And because we are not governedby, say, a hospice or a hospital
system, we can give you as muchtime as you need.
(18:29):
And that was really often soimportant because there's always
going to be questions.
John (18:35):
Yeah, I love that, and fear is an interesting thing,
right?
What we don't understand and wefear sometimes causes us to
close up and, and I think thatis, Death and dying is something
that's very misunderstood.
and I think that some of theseroles, like hospice or a hospice
doula, some people get sofearful because they don't want
(18:59):
to lose their loved one or theydon't want to, they don't want
to pass away.
They don't want to die.
And so it's great that you'resharing all this information
because being proactive is goingto give you a much better
experience through thattransition than not being
prepared.
So thank you for that.
Janice (19:16):
thank you.
And it's so important becausepeople don't understand that.
Erin (19:21):
I would say you've got like this little black book in
your pocket and you're like, Oh,what do you got?
I got it for you.
What do you need?
Check, check.
Janice (19:31):
Oh, I know just who to call.
So, yeah, um, And we've allheard that it takes a village to
raise a child.
It also takes a village to carefor our loved ones, especially
at end of life.
Erin (19:43):
Agree.
Janice (19:44):
Nobody should have to do it alone.
I had to do it alone because 2of my middle siblings decided
they couldn't be part of thecare plan.
So I didn't have any choice andI didn't have any support and I
don't recommend that.
Because it's so unnecessary, andfear and procrastination are
(20:06):
huge.
And in, as an adult, lookingback at what I've already lived
and looking forward to what I amliving, I think this whole, we
have a finite time on this Andwhat are you going to do with
it?
Are you going to let that stopyou from doing things?
(20:27):
Are you going to embrace it?
Are you going to say, okay.
I've got all my plans in place,or at least three quarters of
them, and depending on whathappens next will determine
where I decide to go, but I'mgoing to live.
This is about really living, andenjoying what time you have, and
(20:49):
making it count, and feelinggood about yourself, and
learning and growing, ratherthan shrinking back in fear.
Or procrastination, it's, livingand embracing mortality rather
than, trying to distanceyourself from it because you're
not going to outrun it.
John (21:09):
Yeah.
Janice (21:10):
just not going to happen.
So
Erin (21:11):
That's what I was going to say.
We all die.
Right?
We are all going to go throughit.
Janice (21:16):
Yes, and so how are you going to go through it or is it
going to be an easy process in ajourney or is it going to be
that you're going to make itkicking and screaming, which
isn't going to be good foranybody, especially
John (21:30):
Yeah.
And I feel to what I'd love thelisteners to really understand,
because I think we're bothdiscussing, talking about the
same point here is it's betterto be prepared because at end of
life when you're trying tosupport your mom or your dad or
even yourself in trying to getthat support, it's better if
you've already put a plan inplace, right?
(21:51):
then try to do it at that timebecause that's when emotion It's
so much more heightened andthat's when bad decisions are
made.
that's when fear really exposesitself.
But when you're prepared, Forend of life and you have
everything lined out that youwant to use a doula such as
yourself and you want to Workwith a hospice team and this is
(22:13):
where you want to be you want tobe at home or you want to be
somewhere Else, it makes thatprocess that we're all going to
face so much easier and then youcan concentrate on loving on
each other and having thosediscussions.
So,
Erin (22:26):
Well, and we have these conversations not to scare our
listeners.
We have guests such as yourselfto really open their perspective
of why they need to beproactive.
What are the resources such asyourself can help you ease you
through that process, help youget organized.
These are the people you talk tomake things easier, right?
(22:47):
So yeah, I just, I don't wantour listeners to be scared.
I want you to just listen andabsorb and really know that
there's lots of people here andlots of resources to support
you.
But as far as your role goes, Iknow there are some
misconceptions.
Like you said earlier, peoplehear what you do and they run
away.
What are some of the commonmisconceptions that you have
(23:09):
heard?
Janice (23:11):
Oh, well, besides the fact that they don't need me
right now, Oh, this one.
I just, it just kills me.
I have people who have said, Idon't care what happens because
I'm gone deal with it, and it'slike, okay.
Yes.
Love your family much.
Okay.
(23:31):
there are issues with folks whoare just single and have no
family, have very few friends,do not understand or know what
any kind of options are forthem, who is going to take care
of their final wishes.
Making sure that they're, thingsare taken care of either having
(23:53):
a traditional funeral or acelebration of life.
There's a new thing now whereyou have a living funeral.
So you actually go to a funeralhome and it's a big party and
you get to listen to yourfriends and family talk about
you in a loving way.
Hopefully, I know that therehave been times where family
(24:17):
members have just used it as aplatform to spew all kinds of
things that you really don'tneed to hear, but they feel they
have to get it off their chestand they do that anyways.
So, Misconceptions about what anend of life doula is, because we
are non medical, there are thosewho are like, there's no real
(24:38):
need for what you do, but forthose who are looking for extra
support, those who want to notbe alone, those who have
questions, I don't have all ofthe answers, but I'm pretty good
at quite a number of them and ifI don't know, I'm happy to look
up and find out.
(24:59):
It's the community, you know, asan end of life doula, we want to
be part of your families, yourcommunity.
if you are in a situation whereyou are the parent of a special
needs child, I can't even tellyou how many folks are in this.
Position and they are fearfulabout what's going to happen to
(25:22):
their child because they eitherdon't have enough funds to be
able to make sure that theirchild ends up in a group home
somewhere.
All of that is a process, butit's not insurmountable if you
have some guidance.
So, to all the folks out therewho are.
parents of special needschildren, there are things that
(25:44):
you can do now.
And make sure that you have thatpeace of mind for yourself and,
once you're a parent, you'realways a parent.
Doesn't matter how old yourchild is and it's just like
being an individual.
If you don't have that supportof a community or a family,
(26:04):
there are other options.
We'll make sure that we findthem for you, but you've got to
start the process and reach out.
We can't help you if we don'tknow
John (26:14):
That's so great.
such an amazing resource.
You know, I know that themedical world, I know that, with
hospice, they have the nurses,the, CNAs, the chaplains and all
of that, but this is justanother amazing part of all
those services.
That they're looking at theclinical side of things and
they're helping navigate some ofthat, but I feel like, just like
(26:36):
you said earlier in thediscussion, a team, a whole
group of people, to help supportyou.
And so, one of the things, Iwant to go a little bit deeper
in this too, and, this issomething that I've been a
little bit curious about, buthow do, how do you help families
navigate, the emotional side ofa loved one's passing.
(26:57):
How do you help people navigatethat?
Erin (26:59):
And this is where I'll try not to cry.
John (27:02):
Yeah.
Janice (27:03):
you and me, both you and me both, because we're human.
We cry with our families attimes.
the first thing is shut yourmouth and open your ears and
read body language and don'tforce anything.
When someone is ready to share,they will.
But if you try to put timelimits on their grief, oh, no,
(27:26):
no, no, no, absolutely not.
That is the wrong approach totake.
Making sure that You build trustand, I'm here for you in
whatever capacity you There isno formula.
Every single family, everysingle individual has different
needs, has a differentperspective.
(27:50):
And we just have to be open andcaring enough to let them
express that.
Once they feel that they are ina safe space, they will.
But until then, because we both,we all know that grief is just.
It's like a vice grip, and thenit also can be in waves, you'll
(28:10):
have a good couple of minuteshere, and then something will
trigger you that you see, andyou're a blabbering, slobbering
mess.
It happens.
It's completely normal, natural,and if you fight it and try to
stuff that down, it is not goingto work.
And well for you, because those,emotions need to be released
(28:32):
before I had surgery to have mythyroid removed.
I went and saw my surgeon and atthat point in time, we didn't
have the Internet like we havenow.
So finding information was areal and.
I was talking with him.
We were talking about, what toexpect.
(28:54):
They still weren't sure if I wasgoing to need to chemotherapy or
anything like that.
So they're throwing everythingat me.
And I was asking questionsbecause I had prepared ahead of
time and I'm writing the answersdown.
And this surgeon who was thesame age as me and had five
kids, I only had two.
he looked at me and he said, Iam so worried about you.
(29:16):
And I said, why?
He said, because I can read yourwriting.
And I said, okay, right now Ihave my research hat on.
I have my non emotional hat on.
I need to know what's coming.
I need to be able to share thiswith my loved ones.
And if I'm a slobbering,blobbering mess, that's not
(29:38):
going to happen.
So for right now, I am present.
I am focused.
I am not emotional.
I want the facts.
And I said, besides, you are notwith me when I'm alone.
That is when I have my time toprocess what is really happening
and let the fear and any otheremotion that I have wash over
(30:01):
me.
And that was what I had done.
Nobody taught me how to do that,but because of, having kids and
my parents and, you know, all myother loved ones, I needed to do
that for me.
You never know how strong youare until things happen in your
life.
Everyone has these epiphanymoments or aha moments or
(30:24):
whatever you want to call them.
so being able to disconnect,like John said, from the
emotional part of it when youhave to make decisions will make
it easier down the line.
And then going back to having asafe space, having the time to
process what you're actuallyfeeling, it's really important
(30:46):
because you're not going to feelwhole again until you do that.
John (30:52):
Yeah.
so on the part of the lovedones, do you also support them
as they're transitioning throughthis emotional loss?
And I'm sorry if you answeredthat question.
I'm just trying to understand,do you do follow up?
Will you help them if they callin and want to process stuff as
well?
Janice (31:11):
Absolutely.
this is not a one and donesituation.
Grief, like I said, has no timelimit.
It gets a little bit easier astime goes on, but if you don't
really know that, and you can'tunderstand why you can't stop
crying or why you can't get outof bed, we need just to have a
little chat.
(31:32):
I'm there to listen to whatyou're feeling and how you're
feeling and to reinforce or tohelp you just to, you're not
losing your mind.
You're not unusual.
This is a process, just like alot of things in life, and in
order for you to be able to makesense of it and to feel whole,
(31:52):
okay, and whole again,unfortunately, you've got to
step through it.
You can't go around it.
You can't go under.
It can't go over it.
You've got to go through it.
And that way.
You are going to be able to bethat support person for someone
else down the line, because youhave lived this and you're going
(32:12):
to know, yeah, there is a lightat the end of the tunnel and it
isn't the end of the world.
and it's a learning process foreveryone, but being able to
recognize it and to go throughit is really, really empowering.
Erin (32:27):
I think what I've noticed a lot too is In a relationship
as someone's parent has passedor a brother or a sister, and
you have not gone through ityourself kind of navigating and
telling people, Hey, that yoursignificant other, or maybe your
friend, they need this space andthis is part of their healing,
(32:47):
but this is how you navigate it.
Right?
I'm sure you've seen that a lottoo, is I don't know what to do.
I've never gone through deathmyself personally, so I'm not
really sure how to support.
My person that I should besupporting.
Janice (33:01):
Absolutely, but it's always good to listen because
oftentimes they will explain toyou what they need in whatever
words that they use.
John (33:12):
Yeah, We went through a loss together and it was
interesting because I haven'tgone through a very deep loss
and the way Erin has, and reallyunderstanding, even though I had
worked in hospice and I hadworked with doulas and I thought
I was so educated and knew somuch, I had some challenges
knowing how to show compassionand show empathy and really
(33:34):
support her the way she neededto be supported because that
doesn't come from, something youmay see a hospice team doing or
other people.
it's very personal, thatapproach is very important.
personal with the differentindividuals.
Erin (33:48):
and everybody's different to how they react.
I'm a very silent person.
And then in the shower, youmight see me crying, you know, I
think it's being the oldestchild.
Just be like, okay, we're good.
Kind of similar to you.
let me compose it and just keeptrack to make sure everyone's
taken care of and their feelingsare okay.
And then deal with my own behindthe scenes.
Right.
Janice (34:06):
absolutely, but you have to deal with it,
Erin (34:09):
Oh, for sure.
Yeah.
We sure.
Janice (34:12):
but I've seen too many people try not to, and it
doesn't usually end well.
Erin (34:17):
Well, and being able to communicate too, like me being
able to tell John, Hey, I'm justnot feeling all together today.
Or whoever your partner is whenyou're going through something
saying, I'm having a bad day.
So if I'm a little snappy or ifI cry out of nowhere, it's not
you, it's just an emotion out ofnowhere.
When you've come across somefamilies or individuals and
(34:38):
they're having a hard timetalking about death and the
dying process, how do you helpengage them or have families
engage in a conversation?
Are there specific games to ask?
Are there shows to watch?
Certain conversation triggersyou can start to really get
people to engage even ifthey're, they don't want to.
Janice (34:59):
like I said, every situation is unique because
every family is Sometimes it'sthrough music.
If they have, song or songs thatwas their loved one's favorite,
my mom's was the Andrea Bocellisong, one of his songs, and,
(35:21):
that was something that was,important to our family.
Some families are veryreligious, and so we look at
their religious beliefs andpractices and try and approach
it from that standpoint.
Because.
if that's something that's verystrong within their family, that
might be the only way that theycan start that process of
(35:45):
looking at it from theirreligious perspective.
Sometimes there is no talking.
Sometimes it's just being in thesame room with someone.
Sometimes it's poetry.
sometimes it could be a book, astory that they're, connected
with.
(36:07):
So there are a plethora of waysto start that process to help
those folks engage, but it's notsomething that you have to do
now.
It's a process that when you'refeeling it, when it's, sometimes
it can be planned for andsometimes it can't.
Erin (36:30):
It's when you're ready, right?
And every individual isdefinitely different.
John (36:35):
yeah.
I do find that, as people getolder too, they start realizing
their mortality and fear evenbecomes stronger and they want
to avoid those discussions evenmore.
my grandfather had told mesomething humorous one time.
his, A Close friend of his died,and I said, grandpa, why aren't
(36:56):
you going to the funeral?
And he goes, at my age, I can'tget that close to holes in the
ground, and so, I love that heused that humor, but that was
his way to process probably someof his fear, right?
Of Knowing that, he was, not toofar From the end of his life,
and that's the way he processes.
So we all process it differentlyand Yeah, I just wanted to share
(37:19):
that so are, Are there resourcesfor people out there that you
recommend?
that they could learn more aboutyour specific role or the doulas
role to, have a better, deeperunderstanding of it, the whole
process of it and so forth.
this podcast is going to begreat for people to hear and
(37:40):
listen to and, of course,
Erin (37:41):
like ways for them to research to find out if it's a
fit for
John (37:44):
them Yeah.
more information Yeah.
Do you have anything yourecommend?
Janice (37:49):
well, the first thing is Google.
Erin (37:52):
Hey,
Janice (37:52):
seriously.
every state has their own listof end of life doulas, depending
on the state.
there are some organizationslike NIDA, National Alliance for
Death Doulas, and Enelda, andsome other things that you can
(38:15):
click on, and they have websitesof, tons of information.
If you Google my name, my angelJanice will come up.
And, the reason I built thiscompany of my angel Janice is
that it's to honor my mom.
She always told everyone Iwouldn't still be here if it
(38:36):
weren't for my angel Janice andher favorite flowers were Lily
of the Valley.
So that's why I created my logowith that.
So, yeah, Google is the 1stplace to start if you want to
just start diving in, dependingon what state you live in.
there could be, a number ofdoulas within your state.
There aren't that many of us.
(38:57):
Around the country yet we aregrowing.
I did not get my certificationthrough Nita or an elder.
And so I am not listed in theirdirectories because they only
wanted people who went throughtheir training process to be
included in those.
Some hospices actually have endof life doulas that are
(39:19):
volunteers with them, and itjust, depends.
It's just starting, the search.
We're not in the phone book, butthere aren't really any phone
books anymore anyway.
that's why I think that, Googleis your best place to start to
find out what doula.
Are there any in your area?
Uh, social media, we have anumber of people all over the
(39:41):
world who are doing this, so Ican't give you a more direct
answer than that, but everybody,because of where you live, will
either have resources or not.
And because we are a globalcommunity, and we do have
internet and everything else.
You can get in touch withanybody in another state.
(40:04):
It's not a problem.
You were either, websites orthrough other means.
I am a willow end of lifeeducator, so I do presentations
either virtually or in personand because of my affiliation
with them, I am on anothereducational platform called
pick.
My brain dot world.
(40:26):
And if you go there and you lookme up, we can have a 20 minute
conversation about what you'relooking for.
If you need some help, I mightbe able to direct you in the
state that you live in.
Otherwise, we can do thingsonline.
So it is not just a matter ofhaving someone physically in
your presence.
Thankfully, we have otherresources online that you can
(40:50):
take advantage of.
Erin (40:51):
Are there questions that they should ask when they're
looking for an end of lifedoula?
Just to know, because it is sucha smaller community just to make
sure that they're guiding themin the correct direction.
Janice (41:04):
usually conversations like that are the assessments.
What is it that you need?
are you taking care of a sickloved 1 or do you, have,
terminal illness?
Have you, You just looking forguidance.
Are that's where thoseconversations come in about
figuring out what is best foryou.
(41:25):
I had a woman last year.
Call me.
She was in her 70s.
Her kids had moved away.
She was alone, but she wanted toknow what.
Kind of resources might beavailable in her area.
So, um, we did a little bit ofbrainstorming and I came up with
a couple of things for her tolook into and it worked out for
(41:46):
her.
She was thrilled.
I didn't mean to physically bethere to do that research, but
having that initial conversationof.
What is it that you're lookingfor, because I'm not going to
just ask you specific questionsuntil I hear from you what it is
that you might be looking for,because I'm not.
That's not part of my protocol,okay?
(42:08):
I am not a healthcare providerwith, you know, you have these
symptoms and this is what we do.
Everything is customized.
And we listen.
Erin (42:18):
I would say, so our listeners, when they are looking
and asking questions, it's veryimportant to know if someone
says they have a license onthis, there are no licenses.
There's only certificates.
Janice (42:30):
There are no licenses.
like I said, I got certifiedthrough IEP college.
It's a certificate program.
So that's why I say that I amcertified because I have taken
actual coursework in it.
Erin (42:42):
So that might be a good question to ask too is we know
there are certificates outthere.
Where did you grab yourcertificate or your education
come from?
know, that'd be great.
And then when it comes to pay,is it private pay?
Is it insurance pay?
Janice (42:59):
Yeah, we are not covered by any insurance.
But like I said, that also givesus more flexibility to be able
to give you the time that youneed in order to be able to
fulfill the needs that you have.
I don't have to see 50 people ina day.
If I'm working with 2 familiesor individuals, I have.
(43:24):
20 hours a week for you,whatever you might need.
I have that flexibility to giveto you so that you are not
feeling rushed and that you areembracing the reality of what's
happening to you.
Erin (43:37):
Is it okay to ask the doula how many clients they
have?
Janice (43:42):
It's okay.
to ask.
I'm not giving any personalinformation.
Yeah.
I have three clients today.
There isn't anything, that wouldprohibit me from saying, you
need 10 hours within the next 3days and I might be able to
swing in 8.
So, you've got to have a littlebit of flexibility and it goes
(44:02):
both ways.
But, more often than not, it isdefinitely doable and workable.
because it is my business,because it is my, way of doing
things, I will not overbook.
And if I have a client who isnearing the transition process,
I will make sure that I haveenough time available so that I
(44:26):
can be there when the family
Erin (44:28):
That might be another great question for them to ask
is, as we're transitioning tothe death process, what's your
availability to us?
Or how do you handle that?
Your flexibility?
So I love that you said that.
Janice (44:41):
Yeah, go ahead.
John.
John (44:42):
I was just going to say, also depending on the, hours of
the day, right?
Because we go to bed at 10, andthen we wake up, early in the
morning.
However, some people may work atnight, may, Work during the day
and so there's so many differentvarying things that happen and
so when somebody's activelytransitioning through end of
(45:03):
life, they need to know thatthey have somebody there to
support them.
And I know hospice is 24 hour,availability.
That doesn't mean 24 hour care.
That means they're available 24hours for a phone call.
Maybe a visit or whatever, butyou have a lot more flexibility
to help support a family if theyneed That care during hours when
(45:26):
maybe hospice isn't there.
Erin (45:27):
So that would be another question to ask.
What is your availability?
Is it morning?
Is it evening?
24 7 you can call and I will bethere
John (45:35):
Yeah.
Yeah Because those are.
Janice (45:38):
the clients.
John (45:39):
Yeah, those are such important things for anybody to
know because if I'm working twojobs, and say I'm a single
father of a young boy and then,I'm helping my mother who's
transitioning through end oflife and I.
I can't always be there toreally be able to create a plan
of care with my doula as well asmy hospice team to help support
(46:02):
my mom she's going through thattransition.
So
Erin (46:05):
I know you mentioned you have some resources available to
that our listeners can go to ifyou wouldn't mind sharing that
with us as well.
Janice (46:13):
So, um, I put together and anybody could do this, a
before and after someone dieschecklist.
And if you are looking to startthis process, because you have
not done so yet, this issomething that.
You can use for yourself as wellas for your loved one.
And if you were to email me atmy angel, janice111@gmail.com,
(46:41):
put in the subject line ConnectEmpower gift, I will be happy to
send that to you.
Now, I created it and it isbased for people who live in
Ohio, but everything that is inthis document can be.
customized so that you can findout in your own state what it is
that you might be looking at,whether or not it's with the
(47:04):
Veterans Administration.
And there's things that eachstate's veterans groups have, if
you're an organ donor, if youhave final wishes that, you
really want to incorporate intoyour plan.
If you've got a really stubbornfamily member, who's like, well,
have you started this yourself?
I heard that from my own dad.
(47:27):
You could say yes, I have thisdocument.
I have started doing this Andwhy don't we talk about this for
you this way?
You aren't just coming out ofthe blue Saying, you know We
need to talk about this andthey're going to fight you tooth
and nail and it's just not goingto get anybody anywhere I have
(47:49):
had clients whose parents orloved ones have refused to do
any planning at all becausethey're dead and they don't
care.
So if you are the primarycaregiver, you have every right,
especially if your power ofattorney, and I really highly
recommend that if you have thoseresponsibilities, that you have
(48:12):
a backup.
And if you are the executor orexecutrix of someone's estate or
will, you have a backup person.
Do not just have one personbecause you do not know what
could possibly happen.
And I have seen some things thatI would have never ever been
able to in my wildestimagination.
Happen so having backups is soimportant having documentation
(48:37):
having a plan in place foryourself.
So you can say, yeah, I'vedecided that this and this and
this and this is what I want.
What would you like to do?
Let's have at least maybe talkabout 3 things get it started
slowly.
And if they still fight, youwant it.
(48:57):
And you're the one who's goingto be responsible.
Do it yourself, do the planyourself because you do not want
to have a situation where acatastrophic event happens and
then you are scrambling becauseyou have nothing.
It's so much easier to do alittle bit of planning ahead.
(49:18):
And it can be as easy or asdifficult as you want it to be.
So really the choices are yoursand you have every, tool
available to you.
There are different websites nowthat are doing pre planning so
that it is an electronicdocument.
Some of them are creatingvideos.
(49:39):
as far as, your final wishes.
If you are terminal or if youhave something that's a
debilitating illness, there areother things that you can do
with your physician where youwould have documentation in
place, a physician's order oflife sustaining treatments or
(50:01):
medical order of life sustainingtreatments.
Those documents are filled outby your physician as to whether
or not you want to have a do notresuscitate.
Whether or not you want any kindof extraneous, things done to
keep you alive.
These things are things you needto think about.
(50:22):
Because we don't know what'sgoing to happen.
Are we going to be lucky enoughto just die in our sleep?
Or are we going to go through awhole long, lengthy process?
And if you don't have anythingin place, things are going to
happen that you're not going tobe happy with.
Erin (50:39):
That's what I tell John.
I said, I hope I don't wake up.
I hope I just, I fall asleep
John (50:44):
one of the things that keeps coming up during this
discussion and most of ourpodcast discussions is being
proactive instead of reactive.
And I think that we are givingour family's a gift by helping
prepare.
What we could possibly gothrough at end of life and also
the nice thing about it is it iswhen you do things like there's
(51:08):
a thing called five wishes thatyou can fill out and it helps
people determine what they wantand then they can share that
with their families And, It'samazing at end of life how
Families can start to argue.
Oh, no mom wants this.
No mom doesn't want that and itcan create so much turmoil And
the loved one that'stransitioning can feel that
(51:30):
right.
We want everybody on the samepage.
And so I love that we've hadthis discussion today that
you've been here and you'vegiven our listeners another
thing to think about when itcomes to end of life, end of
life shouldn't be feared.
It's something that we're allgoing to go through.
the most important part of inend of life is, is having a
(51:51):
better understanding and beingbetter prepared.
so thank you for, for sharingall this information with us.
I appreciate that.
Erin (51:58):
I have a final question that I'd love to ask and it has
to do with travel.
definitely opposite of where ourtopic is, so maybe lighten the
mood a little bit.
But where have you been or wherewould you like to go that, maybe
we haven't been or you'd like toshare because you had an amazing
experience there or you'relooking forward to going to?
Janice (52:20):
I have not had the opportunity to really travel
that much in my lifetime becauseI was always busy taking care of
everyone.
at this point, I really havethought about possibly going to
Australia.
Just to see what it was likeover there, I love birds and
(52:40):
they've got so many differenttropical birds over there that
just are all over.
we have, pigeons here or, blueJays or whatever.
So it just and to see anothercountry.
And to experience that Thailandis also someplace that is
intriguing to me.
I have friends who have,sponsored daughters to, be here
(53:03):
in the States for a year.
And so now they have daughtersin Thailand and it's they're my
nieces now because I got to knowthem as well.
So going there would be reallyfascinating, journey just to see
another country and how theylive and.
It's just, 1 of my bucket listthings.
John (53:22):
I hope you get to do it.
We both been to Australia and,it's an amazing country.
The, there is one flying thingin Australia that you won't look
forward to encountering andthat's, they have these bats
that you will see hanging up inthe tree.
And these bats are not like ourAmerican bats over here.
They're like B1 bombers.
they're massive, huge wingspan,they'll cruise around, and
(53:44):
sometimes they even launch off atree in the middle of the
daytime.
And yeah, so if you're terrifiedof That's
Erin (53:50):
excites her though.
So you just got her going thatlit her
John (53:54):
fire Oh, yeah, yeah.
yeah.
yeah.
So thanks for sharing that we,we're sorry, That's a little bit
off the subject.
but it's one thing that Erin andI are passionate about.
We went to, I think close tofive different countries this
year, so we love to hearwherever some, somebody else
would love to travel to.
Erin (54:10):
thank you again.
We appreciate you being on ourshow today and sharing all your
amazing resources and yourknowledge with all of our
listeners.
Janice (54:19):
Thank you so much for having me.
I've enjoyed this very much, andI really do hope that your
listeners take advantage ofworking with an end of life
doula because you don't need towork with us just because you're
dying.
You can do it while you're stillaround and healthy, and then
that way you're pre planned andyou review it every five to ten
(54:40):
years and make changes asnecessary, but.
You've got that one thing out ofthe way, and then you go and you
live and you have fun and doyour best life.
John (54:51):
Thank you for tuning in to another episode of Connect
Empower.
We want to express our gratitudeto you for being part of our
community, and we hope today'sepisode has provided you with
valuable insights andinspiration to enhance your life
and that of a loved one.
Erin (55:06):
We are more than just a podcast.
We are a community dedicated toenhancing the lives of our aging
adults and their support system.
We encourage you to visit ourwebsite now at www.
connect empower.
com.
Explore more information aboutour guests from today's episode
and to access our freeresources.
John (55:27):
resources.
Our mission doesn't end at theconclusion of this episode.
We invite you to take action nowby sharing the knowledge you've
gained today with someone whomay benefit from it.
Whether it's a family member,friend, or colleague, your
influence can spark positivechange.
Erin (55:42):
Remember, Subscribing to our podcast ensures you never
miss an episode and we have moreincredible guests and resources
in store for you.
So hit that subscribe button andstay connected with us.
Your commitment is the drivingforce behind our mission and
together we can create amovement for a brighter future
as we age.
John (56:02):
I'm John.
Erin (56:03):
I'm Erin.
Until next Wednesday.
The journey of being with your loved one when they
are being told by medicalprofessionals that there is
nothing more that they can dofor you.
Medically and that comfort careand, make sure your affairs are
in order.
you hear those words come out ofanother human being's mouth to
(00:21):
the person that you love themost.
And it's devastating, absolutelydevastating.
John (00:38):
Hi, I'm John,
Erin (00:40):
and I'm Erin.
You're listening to connect andpower.
The podcast that proves age isno barrier to growth and
enlightenment
John (00:47):
tune in each week as we break down complex subjects into
bite sized enjoyable episodesthat will leave you feeling
informed, entertained, and readyto conquer the world today we'd
love to welcome our guests,Janice Lombardo.
Welcome, Janice.
Thanks so much for being here.
Erin (01:05):
Hi.
Janice.
Janice (01:06):
Well, thank you.
Thank you, Erin.
John, thank you for having me.
I can't wait to have adiscussion about end of life.
Erin (01:13):
You know, I didn't know there was such a thing as end of
life or death doula until wewere watching crim crim Chris
Hemsworth.
I'm mixing it together his showand it was a very last episode
of the Disney documentary thathe did.
And they brought in a deathdoula and I was like, Oh my
gosh, this is fascinating.
What is This person, what didthey do?
(01:34):
And so I'm so excited to haveyou here to share more about
what it is and the comforts thatyou can bring and the care and
the extra support that youprovide for families going
through a hard time.
So I'm so excited again, like Isaid, to have you here, but if
you could go in and share yourjourney and what led you to do
what you do for others.
Janice (01:55):
Oh, well, this has been a journey of about 30 years in
the making actually.
right after my son was born, Iwoke up in the middle of the
night with a stabbing pain inthe right side of my neck and it
was a little tiny pea sizedlump.
And.
I'm 30 years old at that point,don't know really what's going
(02:17):
on, went to my six week checkup,told the doctor about it, he
said, well, your hormones areout of whack, you're going to
have issues coming up, go homeand enjoy your baby.
That was the beginning of the,the medical gaslighting that I
experienced for the next eightyears.
So December of 1999, go to adermatologist for an unrelated
(02:40):
issue.
And at that point in time, I hadmy daughter.
And the lump still kept growing.
And so when I went to thisdermatologist, you could not
miss it.
It was visibly there.
Every doctor I had been towithin that 8 year period told
me that, Oh yeah, we see it.
We took blood.
Your thyroid levels are fine.
(03:01):
You need to just stop eating somuch and lose weight.
And so when I went to thisdermatologist, he had also taken
blood.
And he told me, your thyroidlevels are really off and I'm
sending you to anendocrinologist.
Didn't know what that was.
Didn't really still know what athyroid was.
Went to see this person a weekbefore Christmas and he's
(03:22):
feeling my neck and he makesthis low guttural sound that
sent my heart into my feet.
Now, I have a 2 year old and an8 year old at home at this point
in time.
Don't really know what's goingon.
And he tells me to come back inthree months.
if it's still there, we'llbiopsy it.
Go back three months, biopsied,stage three plus, at that point,
(03:44):
that they could verify papillarythyroid cancer.
Had surgery, had a completethyroidectomy.
April 11th of this year will bemy 24th anniversary of
survivorship
Erin (03:55):
Congratulations.
Janice (03:56):
from having what they determined was stage four
papillary thyroid cancer thathad mono metastasized.
How that was, uh, is a miracleto me Still today.
That was my cancer journey.
Two and a half years later, mymom is diagnosed with
non-Hodgkin's lymphoma, stagetwo, small B cell.
And so for the next 8 years ofher cancer journey, I am her
(04:21):
primary caregiver.
I'm her medical advocate.
I became a medical advocatebecause of my own experience,
with asking doctors questionsand not being given any answers
and with her.
In order to have any kind ofunderstanding, I really didn't
have time.
My primary focus was keeping heralive, raising my two school
(04:46):
aged children.
I became a substitute teachercause I needed a flexible part
time job so that I wasn'tcompletely out of the workforce,
even though I still have underearned what I should have during
my lifetime.
And now I'm getting closer toretirement age.
And.
All of the trials by fire, mymother's cancer journey, the
(05:10):
first five years, all thedifferent regimens of chemo did
not work.
So what happened was, In thatperiod of time, I never thought
about dying.
I never thought about death.
That was not in my purview.
My, my goal, like I said, was tokeep her alive.
And so we never had end of lifediscussions.
(05:32):
They did update their will ayear before she passed, but I
didn't know anything at thatpoint about end of life.
And it came back to bite mehard.
So when her health took anosedive on Easter Sunday in
2011, and I drove her and myfather to the ER, she never came
(05:57):
home.
the journey of being with yourloved one when they are being
told by medical professionalsthat there is nothing more that
they can do for you.
Medically and that comfort careand, make sure your affairs are
in order.
you hear those words come out ofanother human being's mouth to
(06:18):
the person that you love themost.
And it's devastating, absolutelydevastating.
Now, growing up, death was apart of life, you know, you lost
friends, you lost loved ones,you lost, whatever, you went to
funerals, you did the wholetraditional whatever, but nobody
(06:38):
ever really talked about dying.
No one ever said.
You know that you should bepreparing for this, you know,
you should be having discussionsabout this, you know, there's
more to, body disposal thancremation or burial.
We have so many more optionstoday, but it starts with those
(07:00):
conversations and when you don'thave those conversations chaos.
And it's, it's a shit show, justplain and simple.
So with my mom, I did not knowthat she wanted to die at home,
but I was afraid to let herbecause we weren't prepared.
We never had any discussionsabout it.
(07:21):
I didn't know how my fatherwould take it.
And I was given one day to findsomeplace to bring her to die.
And I told the doctor, what ifit takes me more than a day?
He's like, oh, you should beable to do it.
Well, it took 2 days and he justhad to get over it, but when we
got to the nursing home that wehad found.
She was so angry and it justtore my heart out and it did not
(07:45):
have to be that way.
If we had only had thoseconversations, if I had only had
a glimpse of an idea of what herfinal wishes were, When we got
to the nursing home, she wasfine for the first couple of
days.
My parents celebrated their 51stwedding anniversary that
Saturday.
by Monday, she was in a coma.
(08:09):
And she passed away thefollowing Sunday, which was
actually Mother's Day.
I learned all about hospice inthat time.
And they are an amazinginstitution and I highly
recommend that folks use thembecause it It will enhance your
loved one's last time on thisearth.
(08:32):
It will enhance your ability tofunction, so that we had to make
funeral arrangements while shewas actively dying.
I don't recommend that.
And if you can pre plansomething, great.
If you change your mind afteryou've pre planned it, so you
change your mind.
Nothing is set in stone, butwhen you have no direction, it's
(08:56):
heartbreaking and devastatingall at the same time.
And that's just that one littlepiece.
So for me, as an end of lifedoula, I am non medical because
I'm not a nurse.
I am not a PRN, LPN, any ofthat.
But what I do have is lifeexperience.
What I do have is the ability totalk to any medical professional
(09:19):
almost at their level.
I go ahead and I ask them tospell words.
I ask them for definitions.
I don't have a problem going toeto toe with anyone and no one
ever should.
You should never be intimidatedby the person that is supposed
to be helping you.
And if you are, then it's timeto find someone else.
(09:39):
That being said, my cancerjourney from a patient's
perspective, my mother's cancerjourney from the primary
caregiver and medical advocateperspective is what led me to
become an end of life doula.
during the beginning of thepandemic, just before it hit, I
was actually going to drive fromOhio to Michigan to take a, four
(10:03):
day late, course.
From someone that was offeringit, so it would have been a
certification course to help meto understand today's, medical
field and what as an individualwho is helping guide and educate
others through this processwould know what to do, because
(10:24):
every day there's new thingsthat change new protocols and
all of that.
So being, Aware and being ableto ask questions when you don't
know is really so important.
because when the pandemic hit, Iwas not able to do that.
I found out that there was acollege in Canada Online course
(10:46):
that was self directed, butthere were, professors that you
could ask questions of and workwith to make sure that you were
learning everything that youcould possibly learn in order to
really be able to help anotherindividual now.
I work with individuals, I workwith families, and I am always
(11:07):
very aware of where they're atin the process because I've
lived it.
If you're in the very beginningstages because of a new
diagnosis or a chronic orserious illness, I understand
where you're at.
If you're in the middle phase,where things are kind of moving
along and everything is good,and, If you haven't had those
final wishes talks, I might tryto help you to navigate through
(11:31):
that so that you're not caughtoff guard when everything goes
south really quick because itcan and it has and it does.
So that's how I became an end oflife doula because this is the
third stage of life for me.
I'm a baby boomer.
But I'm also a very loving,caring, holistic, heart centered
(11:55):
person.
I want to help you so that youdon't have to go through what I
went through.
Because there's no reason forit.
I've actually had peoplephysically back away from me in
fear when they find out what Ido.
And I just meet them wherethey're at.
If that's where they're at, thenthat's where they're at.
Erin (12:17):
Well, your story is so powerful, right?
Because a lot of times peopledon't understand until they go
through it.
I wish I would have known.
Why didn't somebody tell me?
Janice (12:27):
Yes.
Erin (12:28):
And you're preaching what we've been preaching, right?
You need to be proactive.
You've got to have yourselfready so that your loved one Is
not having to go through, I'mabout ready to lose a loved one,
but yet I don't understand.
And like you said, with yourmom, I didn't know she wanted to
die at home.
Janice (12:47):
Yes.
Erin (12:48):
We could have made that happen had we known and made
arrangements and it would havemade life easier on all of us.
Right.
Janice (12:54):
Yes, absolutely.
it was a gut punch, and it justtore my heart out when she was
so upset.
John (13:02):
Yeah, I feel, you know, I served in the hospice arena for
a whole bunch of years and I'veworked with doulas in the past
and I know what a integral partof the whole care system at end
of life, how that serves.
and How it really enriches theexperience, not only for the
person that's going through endof life, but their family to
have that added, support.
(13:24):
So thank you for what you do andyour investment Yeah.
And other people and helpingthem navigate that.
So if you can share a little bitabout your role and how it kind
of differs from traditionalmedical professionals.
because I know that they havetheir way of doing them and
doulas is a little bit of adifferent approach.
(13:44):
And so if you can share thedifferences, that'd be great.
Janice (13:48):
okay, from a medical approach, they have protocols.
You have these symptoms, this iswhat we do.
Boom, boom, boom.
There's no varying from it.
They don't have, patientcentered treatment options at
all times.
as an end of life doula, or amedical advocate, I'm there to
(14:09):
say, Okay.
let's look at all of the factshere.
Let's see what other options areavailable to you.
If that is not something thatyou're willing to go through
with.
like I said, I worked withhospice.
they are very limited in theamount of time that they can
spend with a person or theirfamily.
(14:31):
And because of that, my roleactually bridges the gap in
time.
So, you need 3 or 4 hours.
You might need to go take a napbecause you're the primary
caregiver, or you have to run toan appointment yourself and
you're afraid to leave yourloved one at home or wherever
they're at by themselves.
(14:52):
That's caregiver respite.
I'm happy to fill in for you sothat you don't have to worry
what's going on when you're notthere.
I also have other resources thatare local, depending on where
you're at, that, you need,handrails in your house.
Do you have an organizationwithin your community that works
(15:15):
and helps with seniors in thatcapacity?
Do you need a sounding board?
You have three siblings andyou're all fighting.
You're either fighting over theinheritance that you shouldn't
be worried about because thatmoney isn't yours.
That money needs to be spent onyour loved one's care.
(15:35):
And I don't get me started inhow many times I've seen
families implode just because offinances.
one of the really integral partsof being an end of life doula is
helping Individuals, if nobodywants to talk with them because
they want to talk about death,they want to talk about what
(15:56):
they're feeling and they don'thave a family member that can
sit there and listen.
I'm that person that will sitthere and listen.
I'm happy to let you processthat whole thing when you're not
in an imminent death situation,all those thoughts go through
your head.
(16:17):
I know for me, those thoughtswent through my head and who's
going to take care of my kidsand how is things going to work
out?
And, I don't have any supportand, all of the different
worries and things that youdon't necessarily think about
because you didn't have to dealwith them before when they're
right in your face.
Where do you go for support?
(16:38):
That's where an end of lifedoula comes in.
We are your support, yourdaughter or your son or your
cousin or your mom or your dad,whoever you need.
Us to be, we can be that for youin that capacity to be open
hearted and holistic and share.
(16:59):
So being able to, trust anotherindividual in that role.
Sometimes it's easier with astranger than it is with your
own family members, becauseeverybody knows how to push
everybody's buttons and.
I don't have that.
You can't push my buttons andI'm not going to be able to push
(17:21):
yours.
I'm just going to sit here andlet you talk, or I'm going to,
share with you some,possibilities of courses of
action that you can take thatmaybe you hadn't thought of.
in a way, as an end of lifedoula, we are not governed by
any kind of governmentregulation.
So I'm not a nurse.
I don't have to take a statemandated test for anything.
(17:42):
But what I do do is provide youwith what experiences I've had.
I know how to do research.
I know where to find answersthat maybe you don't know where
to go because you're just sooverwhelmed.
So.
In a way, bridging the gapbetween palliative care hospice
care, or just, being that extrasupport in the background and
(18:05):
that's what we do.
We provide the services on a payper.
The schedule, some folks do itby the hour.
Some do it by the, the day orwhatever you need, we are
flexible enough to handle that.
And because we are not governedby, say, a hospice or a hospital
system, we can give you as muchtime as you need.
(18:29):
And that was really often soimportant because there's always
going to be questions.
John (18:35):
Yeah, I love that, and fear is an interesting thing,
right?
What we don't understand and wefear sometimes causes us to
close up and, and I think thatis, Death and dying is something
that's very misunderstood.
and I think that some of theseroles, like hospice or a hospice
doula, some people get sofearful because they don't want
(18:59):
to lose their loved one or theydon't want to, they don't want
to pass away.
They don't want to die.
And so it's great that you'resharing all this information
because being proactive is goingto give you a much better
experience through thattransition than not being
prepared.
So thank you for that.
Janice (19:16):
thank you.
And it's so important becausepeople don't understand that.
Erin (19:21):
I would say you've got like this little black book in
your pocket and you're like, Oh,what do you got?
I got it for you.
What do you need?
Check, check.
Janice (19:31):
Oh, I know just who to call.
So, yeah, um, And we've allheard that it takes a village to
raise a child.
It also takes a village to carefor our loved ones, especially
at end of life.
Erin (19:43):
Agree.
Janice (19:44):
Nobody should have to do it alone.
I had to do it alone because 2of my middle siblings decided
they couldn't be part of thecare plan.
So I didn't have any choice andI didn't have any support and I
don't recommend that.
Because it's so unnecessary, andfear and procrastination are
(20:06):
huge.
And in, as an adult, lookingback at what I've already lived
and looking forward to what I amliving, I think this whole, we
have a finite time on this Andwhat are you going to do with
it?
Are you going to let that stopyou from doing things?
(20:27):
Are you going to embrace it?
Are you going to say, okay.
I've got all my plans in place,or at least three quarters of
them, and depending on whathappens next will determine
where I decide to go, but I'mgoing to live.
This is about really living, andenjoying what time you have, and
(20:49):
making it count, and feelinggood about yourself, and
learning and growing, ratherthan shrinking back in fear.
Or procrastination, it's, livingand embracing mortality rather
than, trying to distanceyourself from it because you're
not going to outrun it.
John (21:09):
Yeah.
Janice (21:10):
just not going to happen.
So
Erin (21:11):
That's what I was going to say.
We all die.
Right?
We are all going to go throughit.
Janice (21:16):
Yes, and so how are you going to go through it or is it
going to be an easy process in ajourney or is it going to be
that you're going to make itkicking and screaming, which
isn't going to be good foranybody, especially
John (21:30):
Yeah.
And I feel to what I'd love thelisteners to really understand,
because I think we're bothdiscussing, talking about the
same point here is it's betterto be prepared because at end of
life when you're trying tosupport your mom or your dad or
even yourself in trying to getthat support, it's better if
you've already put a plan inplace, right?
(21:51):
then try to do it at that timebecause that's when emotion It's
so much more heightened andthat's when bad decisions are
made.
that's when fear really exposesitself.
But when you're prepared, Forend of life and you have
everything lined out that youwant to use a doula such as
yourself and you want to Workwith a hospice team and this is
(22:13):
where you want to be you want tobe at home or you want to be
somewhere Else, it makes thatprocess that we're all going to
face so much easier and then youcan concentrate on loving on
each other and having thosediscussions.
So,
Erin (22:26):
Well, and we have these conversations not to scare our
listeners.
We have guests such as yourselfto really open their perspective
of why they need to beproactive.
What are the resources such asyourself can help you ease you
through that process, help youget organized.
These are the people you talk tomake things easier, right?
(22:47):
So yeah, I just, I don't wantour listeners to be scared.
I want you to just listen andabsorb and really know that
there's lots of people here andlots of resources to support
you.
But as far as your role goes, Iknow there are some
misconceptions.
Like you said earlier, peoplehear what you do and they run
away.
What are some of the commonmisconceptions that you have
(23:09):
heard?
Janice (23:11):
Oh, well, besides the fact that they don't need me
right now, Oh, this one.
I just, it just kills me.
I have people who have said, Idon't care what happens because
I'm gone deal with it, and it'slike, okay.
Yes.
Love your family much.
Okay.
(23:31):
there are issues with folks whoare just single and have no
family, have very few friends,do not understand or know what
any kind of options are forthem, who is going to take care
of their final wishes.
Making sure that they're, thingsare taken care of either having
(23:53):
a traditional funeral or acelebration of life.
There's a new thing now whereyou have a living funeral.
So you actually go to a funeralhome and it's a big party and
you get to listen to yourfriends and family talk about
you in a loving way.
Hopefully, I know that therehave been times where family
(24:17):
members have just used it as aplatform to spew all kinds of
things that you really don'tneed to hear, but they feel they
have to get it off their chestand they do that anyways.
So, Misconceptions about what anend of life doula is, because we
are non medical, there are thosewho are like, there's no real
(24:38):
need for what you do, but forthose who are looking for extra
support, those who want to notbe alone, those who have
questions, I don't have all ofthe answers, but I'm pretty good
at quite a number of them and ifI don't know, I'm happy to look
up and find out.
(24:59):
It's the community, you know, asan end of life doula, we want to
be part of your families, yourcommunity.
if you are in a situation whereyou are the parent of a special
needs child, I can't even tellyou how many folks are in this.
Position and they are fearfulabout what's going to happen to
(25:22):
their child because they eitherdon't have enough funds to be
able to make sure that theirchild ends up in a group home
somewhere.
All of that is a process, butit's not insurmountable if you
have some guidance.
So, to all the folks out therewho are.
parents of special needschildren, there are things that
(25:44):
you can do now.
And make sure that you have thatpeace of mind for yourself and,
once you're a parent, you'realways a parent.
Doesn't matter how old yourchild is and it's just like
being an individual.
If you don't have that supportof a community or a family,
(26:04):
there are other options.
We'll make sure that we findthem for you, but you've got to
start the process and reach out.
We can't help you if we don'tknow
John (26:14):
That's so great.
such an amazing resource.
You know, I know that themedical world, I know that, with
hospice, they have the nurses,the, CNAs, the chaplains and all
of that, but this is justanother amazing part of all
those services.
That they're looking at theclinical side of things and
they're helping navigate some ofthat, but I feel like, just like
(26:36):
you said earlier in thediscussion, a team, a whole
group of people, to help supportyou.
And so, one of the things, Iwant to go a little bit deeper
in this too, and, this issomething that I've been a
little bit curious about, buthow do, how do you help families
navigate, the emotional side ofa loved one's passing.
(26:57):
How do you help people navigatethat?
Erin (26:59):
And this is where I'll try not to cry.
John (27:02):
Yeah.
Janice (27:03):
you and me, both you and me both, because we're human.
We cry with our families attimes.
the first thing is shut yourmouth and open your ears and
read body language and don'tforce anything.
When someone is ready to share,they will.
But if you try to put timelimits on their grief, oh, no,
(27:26):
no, no, no, absolutely not.
That is the wrong approach totake.
Making sure that You build trustand, I'm here for you in
whatever capacity you There isno formula.
Every single family, everysingle individual has different
needs, has a differentperspective.
(27:50):
And we just have to be open andcaring enough to let them
express that.
Once they feel that they are ina safe space, they will.
But until then, because we both,we all know that grief is just.
It's like a vice grip, and thenit also can be in waves, you'll
(28:10):
have a good couple of minuteshere, and then something will
trigger you that you see, andyou're a blabbering, slobbering
mess.
It happens.
It's completely normal, natural,and if you fight it and try to
stuff that down, it is not goingto work.
And well for you, because those,emotions need to be released
(28:32):
before I had surgery to have mythyroid removed.
I went and saw my surgeon and atthat point in time, we didn't
have the Internet like we havenow.
So finding information was areal and.
I was talking with him.
We were talking about, what toexpect.
(28:54):
They still weren't sure if I wasgoing to need to chemotherapy or
anything like that.
So they're throwing everythingat me.
And I was asking questionsbecause I had prepared ahead of
time and I'm writing the answersdown.
And this surgeon who was thesame age as me and had five
kids, I only had two.
he looked at me and he said, Iam so worried about you.
(29:16):
And I said, why?
He said, because I can read yourwriting.
And I said, okay, right now Ihave my research hat on.
I have my non emotional hat on.
I need to know what's coming.
I need to be able to share thiswith my loved ones.
And if I'm a slobbering,blobbering mess, that's not
(29:38):
going to happen.
So for right now, I am present.
I am focused.
I am not emotional.
I want the facts.
And I said, besides, you are notwith me when I'm alone.
That is when I have my time toprocess what is really happening
and let the fear and any otheremotion that I have wash over
(30:01):
me.
And that was what I had done.
Nobody taught me how to do that,but because of, having kids and
my parents and, you know, all myother loved ones, I needed to do
that for me.
You never know how strong youare until things happen in your
life.
Everyone has these epiphanymoments or aha moments or
(30:24):
whatever you want to call them.
so being able to disconnect,like John said, from the
emotional part of it when youhave to make decisions will make
it easier down the line.
And then going back to having asafe space, having the time to
process what you're actuallyfeeling, it's really important
(30:46):
because you're not going to feelwhole again until you do that.
John (30:52):
Yeah.
so on the part of the lovedones, do you also support them
as they're transitioning throughthis emotional loss?
And I'm sorry if you answeredthat question.
I'm just trying to understand,do you do follow up?
Will you help them if they callin and want to process stuff as
well?
Janice (31:11):
Absolutely.
this is not a one and donesituation.
Grief, like I said, has no timelimit.
It gets a little bit easier astime goes on, but if you don't
really know that, and you can'tunderstand why you can't stop
crying or why you can't get outof bed, we need just to have a
little chat.
(31:32):
I'm there to listen to whatyou're feeling and how you're
feeling and to reinforce or tohelp you just to, you're not
losing your mind.
You're not unusual.
This is a process, just like alot of things in life, and in
order for you to be able to makesense of it and to feel whole,
(31:52):
okay, and whole again,unfortunately, you've got to
step through it.
You can't go around it.
You can't go under.
It can't go over it.
You've got to go through it.
And that way.
You are going to be able to bethat support person for someone
else down the line, because youhave lived this and you're going
(32:12):
to know, yeah, there is a lightat the end of the tunnel and it
isn't the end of the world.
and it's a learning process foreveryone, but being able to
recognize it and to go throughit is really, really empowering.
Erin (32:27):
I think what I've noticed a lot too is In a relationship
as someone's parent has passedor a brother or a sister, and
you have not gone through ityourself kind of navigating and
telling people, Hey, that yoursignificant other, or maybe your
friend, they need this space andthis is part of their healing,
(32:47):
but this is how you navigate it.
Right?
I'm sure you've seen that a lottoo, is I don't know what to do.
I've never gone through deathmyself personally, so I'm not
really sure how to support.
My person that I should besupporting.
Janice (33:01):
Absolutely, but it's always good to listen because
oftentimes they will explain toyou what they need in whatever
words that they use.
John (33:12):
Yeah, We went through a loss together and it was
interesting because I haven'tgone through a very deep loss
and the way Erin has, and reallyunderstanding, even though I had
worked in hospice and I hadworked with doulas and I thought
I was so educated and knew somuch, I had some challenges
knowing how to show compassionand show empathy and really
(33:34):
support her the way she neededto be supported because that
doesn't come from, something youmay see a hospice team doing or
other people.
it's very personal, thatapproach is very important.
personal with the differentindividuals.
Erin (33:48):
and everybody's different to how they react.
I'm a very silent person.
And then in the shower, youmight see me crying, you know, I
think it's being the oldestchild.
Just be like, okay, we're good.
Kind of similar to you.
let me compose it and just keeptrack to make sure everyone's
taken care of and their feelingsare okay.
And then deal with my own behindthe scenes.
Right.
Janice (34:06):
absolutely, but you have to deal with it,
Erin (34:09):
Oh, for sure.
Yeah.
We sure.
Janice (34:12):
but I've seen too many people try not to, and it
doesn't usually end well.
Erin (34:17):
Well, and being able to communicate too, like me being
able to tell John, Hey, I'm justnot feeling all together today.
Or whoever your partner is whenyou're going through something
saying, I'm having a bad day.
So if I'm a little snappy or ifI cry out of nowhere, it's not
you, it's just an emotion out ofnowhere.
When you've come across somefamilies or individuals and
(34:38):
they're having a hard timetalking about death and the
dying process, how do you helpengage them or have families
engage in a conversation?
Are there specific games to ask?
Are there shows to watch?
Certain conversation triggersyou can start to really get
people to engage even ifthey're, they don't want to.
Janice (34:59):
like I said, every situation is unique because
every family is Sometimes it'sthrough music.
If they have, song or songs thatwas their loved one's favorite,
my mom's was the Andrea Bocellisong, one of his songs, and,
(35:21):
that was something that was,important to our family.
Some families are veryreligious, and so we look at
their religious beliefs andpractices and try and approach
it from that standpoint.
Because.
if that's something that's verystrong within their family, that
might be the only way that theycan start that process of
(35:45):
looking at it from theirreligious perspective.
Sometimes there is no talking.
Sometimes it's just being in thesame room with someone.
Sometimes it's poetry.
sometimes it could be a book, astory that they're, connected
with.
(36:07):
So there are a plethora of waysto start that process to help
those folks engage, but it's notsomething that you have to do
now.
It's a process that when you'refeeling it, when it's, sometimes
it can be planned for andsometimes it can't.
Erin (36:30):
It's when you're ready, right?
And every individual isdefinitely different.
John (36:35):
yeah.
I do find that, as people getolder too, they start realizing
their mortality and fear evenbecomes stronger and they want
to avoid those discussions evenmore.
my grandfather had told mesomething humorous one time.
his, A Close friend of his died,and I said, grandpa, why aren't
(36:56):
you going to the funeral?
And he goes, at my age, I can'tget that close to holes in the
ground, and so, I love that heused that humor, but that was
his way to process probably someof his fear, right?
Of Knowing that, he was, not toofar From the end of his life,
and that's the way he processes.
So we all process it differentlyand Yeah, I just wanted to share
(37:19):
that so are, Are there resourcesfor people out there that you
recommend?
that they could learn more aboutyour specific role or the doulas
role to, have a better, deeperunderstanding of it, the whole
process of it and so forth.
this podcast is going to begreat for people to hear and
(37:40):
listen to and, of course,
Erin (37:41):
like ways for them to research to find out if it's a
fit for
John (37:44):
them Yeah.
more information Yeah.
Do you have anything yourecommend?
Janice (37:49):
well, the first thing is Google.
Erin (37:52):
Hey,
Janice (37:52):
seriously.
every state has their own listof end of life doulas, depending
on the state.
there are some organizationslike NIDA, National Alliance for
Death Doulas, and Enelda, andsome other things that you can
(38:15):
click on, and they have websitesof, tons of information.
If you Google my name, my angelJanice will come up.
And, the reason I built thiscompany of my angel Janice is
that it's to honor my mom.
She always told everyone Iwouldn't still be here if it
(38:36):
weren't for my angel Janice andher favorite flowers were Lily
of the Valley.
So that's why I created my logowith that.
So, yeah, Google is the 1stplace to start if you want to
just start diving in, dependingon what state you live in.
there could be, a number ofdoulas within your state.
There aren't that many of us.
(38:57):
Around the country yet we aregrowing.
I did not get my certificationthrough Nita or an elder.
And so I am not listed in theirdirectories because they only
wanted people who went throughtheir training process to be
included in those.
Some hospices actually have endof life doulas that are
(39:19):
volunteers with them, and itjust, depends.
It's just starting, the search.
We're not in the phone book, butthere aren't really any phone
books anymore anyway.
that's why I think that, Googleis your best place to start to
find out what doula.
Are there any in your area?
Uh, social media, we have anumber of people all over the
(39:41):
world who are doing this, so Ican't give you a more direct
answer than that, but everybody,because of where you live, will
either have resources or not.
And because we are a globalcommunity, and we do have
internet and everything else.
You can get in touch withanybody in another state.
(40:04):
It's not a problem.
You were either, websites orthrough other means.
I am a willow end of lifeeducator, so I do presentations
either virtually or in personand because of my affiliation
with them, I am on anothereducational platform called
pick.
My brain dot world.
(40:26):
And if you go there and you lookme up, we can have a 20 minute
conversation about what you'relooking for.
If you need some help, I mightbe able to direct you in the
state that you live in.
Otherwise, we can do thingsonline.
So it is not just a matter ofhaving someone physically in
your presence.
Thankfully, we have otherresources online that you can
(40:50):
take advantage of.
Erin (40:51):
Are there questions that they should ask when they're
looking for an end of lifedoula?
Just to know, because it is sucha smaller community just to make
sure that they're guiding themin the correct direction.
Janice (41:04):
usually conversations like that are the assessments.
What is it that you need?
are you taking care of a sickloved 1 or do you, have,
terminal illness?
Have you, You just looking forguidance.
Are that's where thoseconversations come in about
figuring out what is best foryou.
(41:25):
I had a woman last year.
Call me.
She was in her 70s.
Her kids had moved away.
She was alone, but she wanted toknow what.
Kind of resources might beavailable in her area.
So, um, we did a little bit ofbrainstorming and I came up with
a couple of things for her tolook into and it worked out for
(41:46):
her.
She was thrilled.
I didn't mean to physically bethere to do that research, but
having that initial conversationof.
What is it that you're lookingfor, because I'm not going to
just ask you specific questionsuntil I hear from you what it is
that you might be looking for,because I'm not.
That's not part of my protocol,okay?
(42:08):
I am not a healthcare providerwith, you know, you have these
symptoms and this is what we do.
Everything is customized.
And we listen.
Erin (42:18):
I would say, so our listeners, when they are looking
and asking questions, it's veryimportant to know if someone
says they have a license onthis, there are no licenses.
There's only certificates.
Janice (42:30):
There are no licenses.
like I said, I got certifiedthrough IEP college.
It's a certificate program.
So that's why I say that I amcertified because I have taken
actual coursework in it.
Erin (42:42):
So that might be a good question to ask too is we know
there are certificates outthere.
Where did you grab yourcertificate or your education
come from?
know, that'd be great.
And then when it comes to pay,is it private pay?
Is it insurance pay?
Janice (42:59):
Yeah, we are not covered by any insurance.
But like I said, that also givesus more flexibility to be able
to give you the time that youneed in order to be able to
fulfill the needs that you have.
I don't have to see 50 people ina day.
If I'm working with 2 familiesor individuals, I have.
(43:24):
20 hours a week for you,whatever you might need.
I have that flexibility to giveto you so that you are not
feeling rushed and that you areembracing the reality of what's
happening to you.
Erin (43:37):
Is it okay to ask the doula how many clients they
have?
Janice (43:42):
It's okay.
to ask.
I'm not giving any personalinformation.
Yeah.
I have three clients today.
There isn't anything, that wouldprohibit me from saying, you
need 10 hours within the next 3days and I might be able to
swing in 8.
So, you've got to have a littlebit of flexibility and it goes
(44:02):
both ways.
But, more often than not, it isdefinitely doable and workable.
because it is my business,because it is my, way of doing
things, I will not overbook.
And if I have a client who isnearing the transition process,
I will make sure that I haveenough time available so that I
(44:26):
can be there when the family
Erin (44:28):
That might be another great question for them to ask
is, as we're transitioning tothe death process, what's your
availability to us?
Or how do you handle that?
Your flexibility?
So I love that you said that.
Janice (44:41):
Yeah, go ahead.
John.
John (44:42):
I was just going to say, also depending on the, hours of
the day, right?
Because we go to bed at 10, andthen we wake up, early in the
morning.
However, some people may work atnight, may, Work during the day
and so there's so many differentvarying things that happen and
so when somebody's activelytransitioning through end of
(45:03):
life, they need to know thatthey have somebody there to
support them.
And I know hospice is 24 hour,availability.
That doesn't mean 24 hour care.
That means they're available 24hours for a phone call.
Maybe a visit or whatever, butyou have a lot more flexibility
to help support a family if theyneed That care during hours when
(45:26):
maybe hospice isn't there.
Erin (45:27):
So that would be another question to ask.
What is your availability?
Is it morning?
Is it evening?
24 7 you can call and I will bethere
John (45:35):
Yeah.
Yeah Because those are.
Janice (45:38):
the clients.
John (45:39):
Yeah, those are such important things for anybody to
know because if I'm working twojobs, and say I'm a single
father of a young boy and then,I'm helping my mother who's
transitioning through end oflife and I.
I can't always be there toreally be able to create a plan
of care with my doula as well asmy hospice team to help support
(46:02):
my mom she's going through thattransition.
So
Erin (46:05):
I know you mentioned you have some resources available to
that our listeners can go to ifyou wouldn't mind sharing that
with us as well.
Janice (46:13):
So, um, I put together and anybody could do this, a
before and after someone dieschecklist.
And if you are looking to startthis process, because you have
not done so yet, this issomething that.
You can use for yourself as wellas for your loved one.
And if you were to email me atmy angel, janice111@gmail.com,
(46:41):
put in the subject line ConnectEmpower gift, I will be happy to
send that to you.
Now, I created it and it isbased for people who live in
Ohio, but everything that is inthis document can be.
customized so that you can findout in your own state what it is
that you might be looking at,whether or not it's with the
(47:04):
Veterans Administration.
And there's things that eachstate's veterans groups have, if
you're an organ donor, if youhave final wishes that, you
really want to incorporate intoyour plan.
If you've got a really stubbornfamily member, who's like, well,
have you started this yourself?
I heard that from my own dad.
(47:27):
You could say yes, I have thisdocument.
I have started doing this Andwhy don't we talk about this for
you this way?
You aren't just coming out ofthe blue Saying, you know We
need to talk about this andthey're going to fight you tooth
and nail and it's just not goingto get anybody anywhere I have
(47:49):
had clients whose parents orloved ones have refused to do
any planning at all becausethey're dead and they don't
care.
So if you are the primarycaregiver, you have every right,
especially if your power ofattorney, and I really highly
recommend that if you have thoseresponsibilities, that you have
(48:12):
a backup.
And if you are the executor orexecutrix of someone's estate or
will, you have a backup person.
Do not just have one personbecause you do not know what
could possibly happen.
And I have seen some things thatI would have never ever been
able to in my wildestimagination.
Happen so having backups is soimportant having documentation
(48:37):
having a plan in place foryourself.
So you can say, yeah, I'vedecided that this and this and
this and this is what I want.
What would you like to do?
Let's have at least maybe talkabout 3 things get it started
slowly.
And if they still fight, youwant it.
(48:57):
And you're the one who's goingto be responsible.
Do it yourself, do the planyourself because you do not want
to have a situation where acatastrophic event happens and
then you are scrambling becauseyou have nothing.
It's so much easier to do alittle bit of planning ahead.
(49:18):
And it can be as easy or asdifficult as you want it to be.
So really the choices are yoursand you have every, tool
available to you.
There are different websites nowthat are doing pre planning so
that it is an electronicdocument.
Some of them are creatingvideos.
(49:39):
as far as, your final wishes.
If you are terminal or if youhave something that's a
debilitating illness, there areother things that you can do
with your physician where youwould have documentation in
place, a physician's order oflife sustaining treatments or
(50:01):
medical order of life sustainingtreatments.
Those documents are filled outby your physician as to whether
or not you want to have a do notresuscitate.
Whether or not you want any kindof extraneous, things done to
keep you alive.
These things are things you needto think about.
(50:22):
Because we don't know what'sgoing to happen.
Are we going to be lucky enoughto just die in our sleep?
Or are we going to go through awhole long, lengthy process?
And if you don't have anythingin place, things are going to
happen that you're not going tobe happy with.
Erin (50:39):
That's what I tell John.
I said, I hope I don't wake up.
I hope I just, I fall asleep
John (50:44):
one of the things that keeps coming up during this
discussion and most of ourpodcast discussions is being
proactive instead of reactive.
And I think that we are givingour family's a gift by helping
prepare.
What we could possibly gothrough at end of life and also
the nice thing about it is it iswhen you do things like there's
(51:08):
a thing called five wishes thatyou can fill out and it helps
people determine what they wantand then they can share that
with their families And, It'samazing at end of life how
Families can start to argue.
Oh, no mom wants this.
No mom doesn't want that and itcan create so much turmoil And
the loved one that'stransitioning can feel that
(51:30):
right.
We want everybody on the samepage.
And so I love that we've hadthis discussion today that
you've been here and you'vegiven our listeners another
thing to think about when itcomes to end of life, end of
life shouldn't be feared.
It's something that we're allgoing to go through.
the most important part of inend of life is, is having a
(51:51):
better understanding and beingbetter prepared.
so thank you for, for sharingall this information with us.
I appreciate that.
Erin (51:58):
I have a final question that I'd love to ask and it has
to do with travel.
definitely opposite of where ourtopic is, so maybe lighten the
mood a little bit.
But where have you been or wherewould you like to go that, maybe
we haven't been or you'd like toshare because you had an amazing
experience there or you'relooking forward to going to?
Janice (52:20):
I have not had the opportunity to really travel
that much in my lifetime becauseI was always busy taking care of
everyone.
at this point, I really havethought about possibly going to
Australia.
Just to see what it was likeover there, I love birds and
(52:40):
they've got so many differenttropical birds over there that
just are all over.
we have, pigeons here or, blueJays or whatever.
So it just and to see anothercountry.
And to experience that Thailandis also someplace that is
intriguing to me.
I have friends who have,sponsored daughters to, be here
(53:03):
in the States for a year.
And so now they have daughtersin Thailand and it's they're my
nieces now because I got to knowthem as well.
So going there would be reallyfascinating, journey just to see
another country and how theylive and.
It's just, 1 of my bucket listthings.
John (53:22):
I hope you get to do it.
We both been to Australia and,it's an amazing country.
The, there is one flying thingin Australia that you won't look
forward to encountering andthat's, they have these bats
that you will see hanging up inthe tree.
And these bats are not like ourAmerican bats over here.
They're like B1 bombers.
they're massive, huge wingspan,they'll cruise around, and
(53:44):
sometimes they even launch off atree in the middle of the
daytime.
And yeah, so if you're terrifiedof That's
Erin (53:50):
excites her though.
So you just got her going thatlit her
John (53:54):
fire Oh, yeah, yeah.
yeah.
yeah.
So thanks for sharing that we,we're sorry, That's a little bit
off the subject.
but it's one thing that Erin andI are passionate about.
We went to, I think close tofive different countries this
year, so we love to hearwherever some, somebody else
would love to travel to.
Erin (54:10):
thank you again.
We appreciate you being on ourshow today and sharing all your
amazing resources and yourknowledge with all of our
listeners.
Janice (54:19):
Thank you so much for having me.
I've enjoyed this very much, andI really do hope that your
listeners take advantage ofworking with an end of life
doula because you don't need towork with us just because you're
dying.
You can do it while you're stillaround and healthy, and then
that way you're pre planned andyou review it every five to ten
(54:40):
years and make changes asnecessary, but.
You've got that one thing out ofthe way, and then you go and you
live and you have fun and doyour best life.
John (54:51):
Thank you for tuning in to another episode of Connect
Empower.
We want to express our gratitudeto you for being part of our
community, and we hope today'sepisode has provided you with
valuable insights andinspiration to enhance your life
and that of a loved one.
Erin (55:06):
We are more than just a podcast.
We are a community dedicated toenhancing the lives of our aging
adults and their support system.
We encourage you to visit ourwebsite now at www.
connect empower.
com.
Explore more information aboutour guests from today's episode
and to access our freeresources.
John (55:27):
resources.
Our mission doesn't end at theconclusion of this episode.
We invite you to take action nowby sharing the knowledge you've
gained today with someone whomay benefit from it.
Whether it's a family member,friend, or colleague, your
influence can spark positivechange.
Erin (55:42):
Remember, Subscribing to our podcast ensures you never
miss an episode and we have moreincredible guests and resources
in store for you.
So hit that subscribe button andstay connected with us.
Your commitment is the drivingforce behind our mission and
together we can create amovement for a brighter future
as we age.
John (56:02):
I'm John.
Erin (56:03):
I'm Erin.
Until next Wednesday.
Popular Podcasts
Stuff You Should Know
If you've ever wanted to know about champagne, satanism, the Stonewall Uprising, chaos theory, LSD, El Nino, true crime and Rosa Parks, then look no further. Josh and Chuck have you covered.
Dateline NBC
Current and classic episodes, featuring compelling true-crime mysteries, powerful documentaries and in-depth investigations. Follow now to get the latest episodes of Dateline NBC completely free, or subscribe to Dateline Premium for ad-free listening and exclusive bonus content: DatelinePremium.com
On Purpose with Jay Shetty
I’m Jay Shetty host of On Purpose the worlds #1 Mental Health podcast and I’m so grateful you found us. I started this podcast 5 years ago to invite you into conversations and workshops that are designed to help make you happier, healthier and more healed. I believe that when you (yes you) feel seen, heard and understood you’re able to deal with relationship struggles, work challenges and life’s ups and downs with more ease and grace. I interview experts, celebrities, thought leaders and athletes so that we can grow our mindset, build better habits and uncover a side of them we’ve never seen before. New episodes every Monday and Friday. Your support means the world to me and I don’t take it for granted — click the follow button and leave a review to help us spread the love with On Purpose. I can’t wait for you to listen to your first or 500th episode!