Sleep Better: Tips and Tricks for a Restful Night

Are you struggling with sleep issues or looking to improve your sleep quality? In this episode, sleep specialist Savannah Hypes discusses the importance of sleep, common sleep disorders, and practical tips for better sleep. From understanding insomnia to managing technology use before bed, this episode covers a range of topics to help you conquer your sleep challenges.

3-5 Tips for Better Sleep:

1. Establish a Wind-Down Routine: Create a relaxing routine within the hour before bedtime to signal to your body that it's time to unwind.
2. Consider Light Exposure: Ensure you get plenty of daylight during the day and dim the lights in the evening to support your circadian rhythm.
3. Engage in Relaxing Activities: Engage in calming activities before bed, such as meditation, progressive muscle relaxation, or gentle exercises like tai chi.
4. Limit Stimulating Technology Use: While technology use before bed is debated, ensure your engagement with devices is not overly stimulating or exciting to promote relaxation.
5. Seek Social Connection: Stay active socially to help regulate your body's internal clock and promote overall well-being. 

Take a step towards better sleep today by implementing one of the tips discussed in this podcast episode. Whether it's establishing a wind-down routine, engaging in relaxing activities, or seeking social connection, prioritize your sleep health for improved well-being. Tune in to the full episode for more valuable insights and tips on conquering your sleep challenges.

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John & Erin

Episode Transcript

Savannah (00:00):
I also really encourage people to talk with

(00:02):
your prescriber about trying toavoid the sedative hypnotic
medications.
so typical sleep meds likeAmbien, those can actually be
dangerous for older adults whoare more at risk of falls.
Because that sedation effect isgoing to cause you a lot of
difficulty with being able tokeep yourself stable if you do
have to get up in the middle ofthe night.

(00:24):
So those, really sedatingmedications or hypnotic
medications are really notrecommended for older adults to
use long term

John (00:41):
Hi, I'm John.

Erin (00:43):
And I'm Aaron.
You're listening to connect andpower the podcast that proves
age is no barrier to growth andenlightenment.

John (00:50):
Tune in each week as we break down complex subjects into
bite sized, enjoyable episodesthat will leave you feeling
informed, entertained, and readyto conquer the world.
Savannah Hypes is a licensedclinical social worker,
psychotherapist, and insomniaspecialist who helps highly

(01:11):
driven, sleep deprivedprofessionals feel inexhausted
and on edge to finally sleepthrough the night.
She's trained in behavioralsleep medicine through a
fellowship with the Gulf CoastVeteran Healthcare System and
trained in eating disorder carewith the Renfro Center prior to
working in private practice.

(01:31):
Savannah currently treatsindividuals with insomnia,
nightmares, anxiety, and eatingdisorders, both in person in
Winter Park, Florida, andvirtually throughout Florida.
And New York.
Let's warmly welcome our guest,Savannah Hypes.
Welcome.

Savannah (01:48):
Thank you so much for having me.
I'm excited.

Erin (01:51):
We are super excited to have you.
I know, um, We, lack sleep, andI know the older that we've
gotten, you think that when you,in college, you can sleep
whenever, high school, whenever,then you have kids, and then
your whole system's out ofwhack, at least for me.
I've got that mom sleep, butsuper excited, I know, we've had
the aura rings in the past, andwe've been like, Erin, you sleep

(02:13):
horribly.
I'm like, but we have the ringsnow.
Let's really see what the storyis.
So we both balance off and onabout our sleep and how it may
or may not work.
So I'm ready to learn a few moretricks such as putting my phone
down an hour or so before I goto bed or I don't know.
that, but it's a good goal.

(02:35):
I've actually, this week, I'vestarted a new routine where at 8
o'clock I start getting readyfor bed and trying to put all
that stuff away.
No TVs, trying to reallyminimize, my interaction with
the light.

Savannah (02:49):
Wow.
Was that in preparation for thisconversation?
So you could say you've beentrying hard.

John (02:55):
Totally.
And sleep, sleep is so importantfor all of us because, you know,
your inability to focus, there'sso many things that, that sleep
can improve or alter, throughoutyour day, your mood, everything.
So, I'm excited.
to learn more about

Erin (03:12):
Yeah, Me too.
If you wouldn't mind sharingyour story, what got you excited
to becoming an insomniaspecialist?

Savannah (03:20):
Yeah, so I got my master's degree at Florida State
as a master's social worker.
so I'm now a licensed clinicalsocial worker.
And while I always knew that Iwanted to be a therapist and to
be helping people, there's alittle part of me that doesn't
always love the subjectivity ofthe experience of being a

(03:40):
therapist.
I like to know that What I'mdoing is working and is
effective, and there are lots ofdifferent kinds of therapies and
different modalities, and someof them are more short term,
some of them are more long term,and I realized for myself that
if I was going to feel goodbeing a therapist, I really
wanted to be doing somethingwhere I could actively see

(04:02):
direct changes, in, in a quickway, in a way that was really
tangible.
So I was looking for how can Ido some extra training?
How can I find a specialtythat's really going to suit that
for me, make me feel reallyconfident in the, the evidence
base of the techniques I'musing.
And I found this fellowship withthe veterans, Gulf coast,

(04:24):
healthcare system.
And it, the VA is amazing.
I will say that time and timeagain, they're so extremely
evidence based in what they do,they do lots of research on
their own outcomes and the workthat they are doing with
veterans.
They sponsor a lot of researchthat other people do, and
they're always teaching andtraining people, so that we can

(04:46):
really be offering our veteransthe best care.
So I got hooked up with them.
I did this fellowship programand they had a rotation in
behavioral sleep medicine.
And once I learned about it, Ithought, Oh, yep, this is it.
This is for me.
I've always been enthralled withthe idea of sleep and dreams.
And once I got into it, Ilearned that the treatments that

(05:09):
we use for insomnia, which isprimarily cognitive behavioral
therapy for insomnia, hasdecades of research showing that
it is the most effectivetreatment for sleep and that it
is effective in a short periodof time.
I'm not talking months and yearsthat you're having to work on
treatment for this.
I'm talking six to eight weeksand dramatic change.

(05:31):
And so that really spoke to myresearch obsessed heart.
And I thought this has got to bewhat I, what I spend the rest of
my life doing.
and I haven't looked back.
I love it.

Erin (05:42):
So you're saying in six to eight weeks, typically, you can
get someone on a better sleepcycle or better habits for their
sleep.

Savannah (05:53):
Absolutely.
They, if they're, therecommendations are hard
sometimes.
If this is not like an easytreatment necessarily.
But when you follow therecommendations, change very
quickly.

Erin (06:05):
Will you share some of those with us?

Savannah (06:08):
Yeah, absolutely.
You mean, the specificrecommendations?
So it might be helpful firstactually to talk about what,
what normal healthy sleep lookslike and how that changes for
adults as they age and get olderso that we can pinpoint where
are the things that we need toadjust and change.

Erin (06:27):
So you mean eating ice cream, having caffeine, being
super high energy before bed isnot normal?

Savannah (06:35):
Well, you know, there's some flexibility around
those things, but for the mostpart, your, your brain tells you
to be awake and alert in themorning.
because of your circadianrhythm.
I don't know what you guys may,may already know about the
circadian rhythm.
is there any, what, what comesto your mind when I say
circadian rhythm?

Erin (06:53):
Like your natural way that your body operates, when it
wants to wake, when it wants tosleep, when it's overworked, all
that.

Savannah (07:01):
Yeah, exactly.
It's the timing.
It's your brain's clock.
It's inward clock that tellsyour body what time it is, and
it tells your body when to bedoing certain functions, like
secreting certain hormones, likebeing alert or being sleepy.
your body knows what time it is,and it sends that information
out to all of your organs andsystems.
And that's your circadianrhythm.

(07:22):
It's your body's clock.
And the way that it knows whattime it is, is by certain
signals.
Specifically, light intake.
your daylight that you receiveduring the day goes to your
eyes, it shoots back throughyour optic nerve to a little
section in the back of yourbrain called the suprachiasmatic
nucleus.
Which is where that clock ishoused, and that sends

(07:45):
information to the rest of yourbody saying, Oh, we've received
daylight, that must mean it'smorning time, and it sends an
alerting signal out to the restof your body saying, Okay, time
to get energized, time to startgetting hungry, time to start
doing all these things.
And then once it's the eveningand we have not received
daylight in a few hours, yourbrain goes, Hmm, we haven't had

(08:06):
that light come in a few hours.
It must be nighttime.
Let's stop that alerting signal.
Let's cut that one for today.
We're all done there.
So it doesn't send that signalout anymore.
And you start to get sleepy.
The same thing happens with yourdaily activities and behaviors.
So eating and physical movementare similar to light in that

(08:27):
they tell your body what time itis.
And they tell your clock, yes,you're on track.
We're eating breakfast, whichmeans it is morning.
great job, you estimated thattime appropriately.
I like to think of it as acuckoo clock.
we have a sense throughout theday of what time it is, but then
when we hear the clock go off,the cuckoo clock, we go, oh

(08:47):
yeah, so it is noon.
So it makes sense that I'mhungry right now.
Okay, I got it.
it confirms it for you.
That's what daylight does forus.
That's what eating does for usin a routine manner.
That's what activities in aroutine do is they say, yes,
you're on track.
You know what time it is.
And that can get really off forpeople who are aging because

(09:11):
your eyes start to degenerateand they don't receive daylight
as readily.
Or, they might be a person whois having some mobility issues,
chronic pain, a number ofmedical complications to where
they can't spend as much timeoutdoors, or they are not as
active in a And when thosethings happen, your brain starts

(09:31):
to get a little fuzzy on what,what time exactly is it again?
We're not so sure because wehaven't had so much light coming
the cuckoo clock is like reallyquiet and you can't, can't quite
hear it anymore, which meansyour brain doesn't know.
When to tell your body to bealert, when to send out that
signal.
So that's why you start tonotice you're tired during the

(09:51):
day and then at night you'relike, not really that tired.
'cause your brain's not so sure.
It doesn't know when to tell youto be tired or not.

Erin (09:59):
This makes sense, because I often wonder, as we're aging,
the fact that we're losing oureyesight and things are changing
and it can't bring in all thatlight, maybe that's why you're
not sleeping.
It's Oh, and I often wonder too,with the seasonal change, like
winter, when it gets, thedaylight is shorter and how that
affects us.
And can we add more light in ourhouse that, keeps us going so

(10:21):
we're not super tired or how dowe change our patterns from
seasons?
And it's just so fascinating.
I

John (10:28):
I think what she's trying to say too is, She's always
probably thinking that my cuckooclock's broken because I'm
waking up so much earlier thanshe is.
And I constantly think hers is.
And so when it comes to couplesor marriage or, you know, people
that are sharing space, how cometheir circadian, circadian,

(10:49):
rhythm doesn't become verysynced.
yeah, how come we can't syncours up?
she's constantly.
Wanting mine to be more similarto hers.
And I constantly want hers to bemore similar to mine, which I
think would help us both if theywere very similar.

Erin (11:09):
Well, tell her what time you get up in the morning and
she'll probably be like, oh,that's why.

John (11:13):
I get up at four 50 in the morning and get my day going,
get a workout in and meditationand all that type of stuff.

Erin (11:20):
about six o'clock my body starts going okay, and between
six and seven, depending on howI'm feeling that day, I'm like,
okay, I'm ready to get up.

Savannah (11:27):
Yeah.
When you said earlier thatyou're starting your bedtime
routine at 8:00 PM I was like,whoa.
That's pretty early

Erin (11:33):
It is'cause I'm a night owl, so I'm trying to adjust
and, and do different things and

John (11:38):
where, where she can, she can put in a movie at nine 30,
10 o'clock and watch the wholemovie.
And I'm like nine 30.
My there's a little timer thatgoes off in my eyelids.
It doesn't matter if I'm in amovie theater, it doesn't matter
where I am.
If I'm not doing somethingreally physical, I'm going to
sleep period.

Savannah (11:56):
think you guys have both hit on reasons why those,
why those are different.
So one is biology.
Everyone has a little bit of adifferent biology, a little bit
different of genetics, and thatplays into your sleep.
Some people are quote unquotegood, easy sleepers.
Some people are, genetically,just have a harder time with
sleep.
That might be like apredisposing factor of insomnia

(12:18):
For other people, theircircadian rhythm is naturally
going to be a little bitdifferent.
There's a range, let's say theaverage American or person is
going to be waking up around 6or 7 and then getting tired
going to bed between 10 and 11.
Like maybe that's average, buteveryone falls on a spectrum
somewhere.

(12:38):
Their circadian rhythm, justbiologically, is slightly
different.
so maybe some people naturallyfeel like they want to get up at
5 and get tired at 9, 9 or 10.
And other people naturally don'treally want to get up until 9 or
10 and then they don't want togo to sleep until 11 midnight.
So those are some naturaldifferences that are happening

(12:59):
just biologically from person toperson with your circadian
rhythm.
Sometimes that gets to be reallyextreme and it becomes a
circadian rhythm disorder.
which is another sleep disorderwhere it's really disrupting
your life.
For example, your circadianrhythm naturally shifts over
your lifespan.
Children start with waking upvery, very early and going to

(13:21):
bed very, very early, andthey're that's the circadian
rhythm they have.
Adolescents, it does a wholeshift.
Adolescents naturally are notgoing to get sleepy until much
later in the evening, like 11,12, 1 a.
m.
And then they naturally aregoing to want to sleep until
later in the morning.
Unfortunately, our societyvillainizes that.

(13:41):
And so our adolescents arechronically sleep deprived,
which is a whole soapbox I couldgo on, but I won't right now.
And then as we age, it starts toshift back in the other
direction again.
And when we get to our olderstages of life, it switches the
other way in a pretty severe waysometimes.
sometimes older adults sufferfrom what's called advanced

(14:02):
phase circadian rhythm disorder,which is where their phase has
shifted to the point thatthey're getting sleepy at six or
seven and they're wanting to goto bed.
And then they're waking up atthree or four and not able to go
back to sleep and it's reallydisrupting their life.
So there's like a whole spectrumof this and we can use light and

(14:23):
behavior timing to strategizearound that.
for example, John, you weretalking about I get up at 4.
50 because that's when I feellike I want to get up and I want
to do my stuff.
And I get really tired andsleepy when it comes to 10 p.
m.
and I really want to go tosleep.
If you wanted to change that,you could make yourself stay up
later regularly.

(14:44):
You could expose yourself to alot more light in the evening
and make sure you plan lots ofactivities that are fun for you
to do in the evening.
until your body gets tiredenough that it starts to shift
and it lets you sleep a littlebit later.
so there are lots of things wecould do to adjust your routine.
And that's oftentimes what Itell older adults as well, is to
schedule a lot of eveningactivities to keep your body

(15:07):
moving and awake so that you cansleep in the time frame that
feels better for you, if that'swhat you would like and that
works better with your socialsystem.
Or if you decide that you feelgood going to bed at 8pm and
waking up at 3 or 4am and thatfeels really good for you and
you just have adapted to it,then great.
Maybe we don't need to changeanything.

(15:28):
So it just really depends onwhat your goals are.

Erin (15:31):
interesting.
I I would like to go back towhen she first started talking
and.
The normal hours, six to seven,

Savannah (15:41):
average.
Not normal.
Not normal.
Average.

Erin (15:45):
that.

John (15:46):
Thank you for that.
Thank you for that, Savannah.
I appreciate that.
very average.
I, I understand what you'resaying and, and staying active
and being in a more lit spaceand keeping a lot of activities
so that if you wanted to changethings up and be able to sleep a
little bit longer in the morningand, and stay up a little bit
It's a way to train yourself tobe able to do that.

(16:08):
However, I do know that in oursociety, for the most part,
people, they're workingthroughout the day, they're
keeping themselves very busy,sometimes workouts during the
middle of the day, they'redrinking coffee, they're doing
different activities, right?
When they get done makingdinner, having dinner, they eat
this heavy meal, they sit downand they start relaxing and

(16:29):
their body starts relaxing.
To change.
And a lot of people aren't superactive because they're putting
in a movie.
They're relaxing.
They're reading a book.
they're starting to tone down.
Isn't that, isn't that correct?
And then how does, I know thatyou said as, as time changes, as
we get older and stuff, some ofthose things change, how did

(16:50):
naps play into this?
Because I noticed that for awhile, what I was doing is.
Instead of drinking coffeethroughout the day, I would just
drink coffee in the mornings,and then what I would do is
midday, midday, I'd take a 20minute power nap.
Maybe I didn't even fall asleep,but I'd park my car someplace.

(17:10):
I'm, doing marketing sales.
I'd park my car underneath thetree or something like that, put
my seat back and I just close myeyes for 20 minutes and give
myself a break.
So there's no activity.
I noticed that I seem to havemore energy throughout the rest
of the day.
How does that affect sleep andstuff?
Is that okay to do?
Is that not recommended?

Savannah (17:32):
It's really a case by case in terms of, people who
are, let's say, middle agedadult, younger adult, middle
aged adult, I typically don'trecommend napping because
another thing that regulatesyour sleep, so we talked about
the circadian rhythm, which is aprimary regulator of your but
another factor that regulatesthe depth of your is called your

(17:53):
sleep drive, your homeostaticsleep drive.
Homeostatic is a fancy word thatjust means it keeps equilibrium.
So your sleep drive needs, it'ssimilar to your drive for food
or water, It needs to build upthroughout the day.
So if you like ate a big bowl ofice cream at 4 p.

(18:13):
m., how hungry would you be fordinner at 5 Maybe not that
hungry.
maybe you could have somedinner, but you'd get full a
little earlier than It'ssometimes similar when you have
a nap during the day, that yourdrive for sleep, which is
actually a chemical pressurethat builds up on your brain
throughout the day, the longeryou've gone without sleep, it

(18:33):
builds and builds and builds.
As soon as you have sleep, itstarts to decrease.
So if you do too much sleepingthroughout the day, by the time
you get to 10 or 11, your sleepdrive is down here instead of
being up here.
So you'll go to sleep, butyou'll wake up in a couple of
hours and have a hard time goingback to But this is different

(18:54):
for everyone.
for people who, like you, whichmy gut reaction, of course I
haven't done a full evaluationwith you, but from what you're
saying, it sounds like you're aperson who on average needs a
longer amount of sleep.
Everyone's need for sleep isdifferent, it's like a shoe
size.
the average is 7 to 8, whichdoesn't mean normal, it just

(19:15):
means average.
Some people feel great on sixhours.
Some people feel rough unlessthey get ten hours.
Everyone's different.

John (19:25):
six.
She's the 10 for

Savannah (19:28):
Oh, interesting.

Erin (19:29):
it's not.
This is, I'm going to be honesthere.
I'm going to spill the beans.
I do like the 7 to 8, there'stimes depending on what my days
are like.
If I have really heavy days,then I want to sleep that 7 to
8.
Or sometimes I'll do a 5 to 6.
But John, he does get up earlierand does stay later, but when

(19:49):
I've said, Hey, let's sleep in,don't get up.
He will sleep forever.
It's like his body, like yousay, naturally wants that sleep.
So I feel like he deprives hisbody sleep sometimes, if that
makes sense.
Like he really should get up ata seven, eight o'clock, but that

(20:09):
four 50 cause he wants to gethis stuff, personal stuff done
and out of the way.
You know?

John (20:16):
think, I think there's, there's a little bit of truth to
that, but I do find myself,personally, like if I get six to
six and a half hours of sleep, Ifeel great.
However, if I get seven and ahalf, eight hours of sleep, I
just feel exhausted all day.
I feel like I might as well juststay in bed because, I get, it's
almost like I too much sleep.
And, so I think we all have ahappy spot where we function

(20:41):
best.
I wish her happy spot was theexact same as mine.
I think that we would functionbetter

Erin (20:46):
Look, I'm trying to go to bed earlier.
I'm a night owl girl, and I, I,I have adjusted a lot.

Savannah (20:53):
whatever works for you.
You guys, that's a lot.
of the work too that I dosometimes when I'm using CBT for
insomnia is I'm helping couplescommunicate about it because
that can be a rough spot whenyou're trying to have connecting
time in the evening, but yoururges are completely like
opposite time wise.
That can be really rough.

Erin (21:11):
Oh, that's a, that's another topic for another

Savannah (21:13):
Yeah.

Erin (21:14):
for sure.
What are some of the mostcommon, patterns that change as
we sleep?
what really, we know we'vetalked about season and light,
but what really starts to happenas we age?

Savannah (21:27):
So like I mentioned, the circadian rhythm shifting
forward is one of the primarythings that changes.
Another thing is that as we getolder, we naturally start to
just get a little bit lesssleep.
instead of that 7 8 hour rangeon average, people start getting
a little bit shorter sleep.
and that's just a natural changethat happens.

Erin (21:47):
I was going to say, is that because your body is not as
active or is it because yourbody doesn't need to heal as
much because you're not doing asmuch and you're not
overexhausting it?
Like maybe now you're thinkingabout work and family and
running kids and now it's likemy time, my body has that time
throughout the day already beslow and heal.

Savannah (22:06):
So research wise, we actually don't know exactly yet.
There, there's a lot of studiesbeing done about this, but we
don't know exactly the reasonwhy that change happens.
What we do know is that olderadults who are not experiencing
something like insomnia orobstructive sleep apnea or
another, sleep disorder tends tostill feel like they're getting
restful sleep even when they'regetting a little bit less

(22:28):
another thing that changesnaturally is that they're going
to wake up more frequentlythroughout the night.
That's just a aging.
you're going to have to use therestroom more frequently.
You might have other medicalconditions or chronic that wake
you up or make you feeluncomfortable.
So those are just naturalchanges that happen.
And it doesn't mean that youcannot continue to get good

(22:49):
quality rest.
you don't have to tell yourself,Oh, I only slept five, six hours
last night.
I can't believe it.
This is going to be a horribleday.
Thank you.
You might feel great.
You might feel great.
A lot of people find thatthey're not quite as worried
even while they're getting lesssleep.
What does become a problem iswhen you're getting less sleep
and then you're really having ahard time during the day.

(23:12):
You're wanting to take thoselong naps.
You're, you're having a reallyhard time keeping your eyes
open.
At 7 p.
m.
you're having a hard timewanting to engage with friends
and you're you're starting toreally worry about it, worry
that it's going to affect yourThose are the times when it
would be to seek out somesupport or sleep treatment or

(23:34):
talk with your doctor about it.
when it's really impacting your,your day to day

Erin (23:39):
I was just thinking, When I sleep, I notice I get a little
more restless, so it's very truewhere normally I could just
sleep and wake up in the samespot, but now I feel myself
like, okay, the sheets notcomfortable or I'm hot or my
feet are just restless forwhatever reason, or a mind
spinning.

Savannah (23:55):
Exactly.
There's a whole host of reasonswhy our sleep might become
disrupted.
And for a lot of those, thereare things we can do about that.
but you don't have to justsuffer forever thinking, Oh,
this is just how it is now.
there are natural changes thathappen with your sleep like
we've talked about, but thereare also ways that we can adapt
to

Erin (24:13):
Are there certain medications or certain natural
things we can take to help ourbodies sleep better?

Savannah (24:21):
Yes, so melatonin use is usually a good option for
older adults.
it helps your circadian rhythmbecause your circadian rhythm
tells your body when to secretehormones and melatonin is one of
those hormones that getssecreted.
And the timing of that confirms,sends another cuckoo signal out
that confirms what time So thatcan really help as well.

(24:45):
Or if you're wanting to shiftyour circadian rhythm a little
bit later.
that can help you time timingwise of when you decide to take
it to shift your body's clock.
in terms of medication, I thinkit's important to talk with your
prescriber about medicationsthat have, like activating side
effects.
some, some medications tend tohave a kind of an alerting side

(25:07):
effect, like it, it just makesyou feel more energized, and
other medications tend to have amore sedating side effect, and
that might be the purpose of themedication, or that might just
be something that goes alongwith it, but especially, older
adults tend to be taking moremedications the older they get.
So they should really be talkingwith their doctor if they're
having trouble sleeping about,okay, are, should I be changing

(25:29):
the timing of any of these meds?
Do I need to switch this one tothe evening or this one to the
daytime?
that can really help things.
And I also really encouragepeople to talk with your
prescriber about trying to avoidthe sedative hypnotic
medications.
so typical sleep meds likeAmbien, those can actually be
dangerous for older adults whoare more at risk of falls.

(25:53):
Because that sedation effect isgoing to cause you a lot of
difficulty with being able tokeep yourself stable if you do
have to get up in the middle ofthe night.
So those, really sedatingmedications or hypnotic
medications are really notrecommended for older adults to
use long term.

John (26:09):
how does food or when we eat food affect our sleep?

Savannah (26:14):
That's a great question that I think a lot of
people are learning to ask now,but who hadn't thought about it
much before, is that eating isanother one of those circadian
markers.
one of those routine behaviorsthat tells our brain what time
it is.
if we're eating three meals aday and every day we eat around
the same time, our brain getsused to that routine and it

(26:35):
knows, okay, so usually whenI've eaten, I usually do this
next.
And when I eat dinner, it'susually around three hours later
that it's time that the sun goesdown.
Like it knows that routine.
So if you're doing a totallydifferent routine every day, if
you're skipping breakfast, ifyou're eating lunch at three, if
you're totally switching it upevery day.

(26:55):
Your brain goes, wait, what mealis this?
Is it morning?
Is it night?
I don't know.
And it gets really confused andit doesn't know when to tell you
to be alert versus to be sleepy.
I don't tend to focus as much onthe nutritional aspect of the
foods.
I think it's important for us tohave a variety and balance in
what we eat.
but there's a lot of like dietculture and like villainization

(27:19):
of food in our society.
And honestly, I see that tend tobe a bigger impact on health,
than the actual food we'reeating, like our perception of
food and the way that we thinkabout ourselves as we're eating
certain foods, I've seen to havea greater impact, on our health.
Specifically, research showsthat internalized weight bias is

(27:42):
a specific factor that is linkedto poor sleep.
if we are receiving messagesfrom society that we, are bad
because of our weight status orthe size of our body, especially
if this is coming from ourhealthcare providers, which
often it is, this is newresearch, like the last year or
two, this has been coming out.
and I'm a big proponent of thehealth at every size approach,

(28:04):
meaning that you can be healthyat whatever size body you have.
You can also be unhealthy atwhatever size body you have, and
it's really about those choicesas opposed to what you look
like.

John (28:14):
as I'm just thinking about food and stuff.
I think that, even a biggerfactor for some people is either
alcohol or caffeinated drinks.
there's so many sport drinks outthere now.
It's interesting though.
I can drink coffee and I can goto sleep perfectly fine.
And I know other people that canas well.
So if you can just, I know thisisn't a discussion about food

(28:37):
and.
Drinks and stuff, but it doesaffect sleep for, for certain
people.
and even sugar, right?
How much sugar you're intakingat certain times of day, is that
correct?
That, that will also have aneffect on our sleep.
Or is that a

Savannah (28:51):
So in terms of alcohol and caffeine, yes.
specifically for older adults,another change that we see as we
get older is our metabolismslows down and it takes longer
for certain things like caffeineor alcohol to metabolize in
older adults.
So for those people, I'mtypically recommending that they
cut off those earlier in theday.

(29:12):
For most people, I recommendanywhere from 9 to 10 hours
prior to when you plan to go tobed is when you should have,
have your last caffeine or don'thave any caffeine past then.
So for a lot of people, that'ssomewhere around noon or 1 p.
m.
that I'm recommending.
Try not to have caffeine afterthat.
And then alcohol, you typicallydon't want to be drinking

(29:33):
alcohol within two to threehours of bedtime.
Of course, we live our life, andthis is flexible, and these are
recommendations that, if you'rereally having trouble sleeping,
like this is, these are somethings that you should try, but
if you're sleeping well, I'm notthe alcohol police telling you
can't, you can't have your afterdinner drink.
so I think it's really you beingmindful about noticing how

(29:55):
different drinks affect you.
And each person's biology isreally unique.
for some people, caffeinedoesn't affect them the same way
others do.
I could have, a coffee in themorning, and if I haven't eaten
enough, or if I just happen tohave not slept well the night
before, I'm gonna be, like,convulsing, but that's unique to
me.
That's not an every personthing, so it's just really

(30:17):
different person to person, andyou've gotta be mindful about
your own experience.

Erin (30:21):
I think that's what's been fun about doing our podcast is
that we're learning there's alot of similarities to
everything in our body.
And it's sleep, it's payingattention, it's being really
aware, oh I ate this, or oh Islept like this, or this is what
I did before bed, or through theday, or how certain things
affect you, to really get intune with your body and what

(30:44):
works, and I love that, it's afun journey to figure out,

John (30:48):
what I find interesting though is it's not like a a one
time fix that that everybody'sso unique in their own way, from
what we eat to when we eat, it,to how many hours of sleep we
get.
And you really have to be anadvocate for yourself and figure
out what works best for you.
and, Working with somebody likeyourself or somebody else,

(31:12):
whether it's fitness, nutrition,whatever it is, it's, it's best
to always work on creating a andI think it's really important
for people to plan for thatindividual themselves because,
how I sleep or the quality of mysleep or whether I dream or
don't dream or whatever is goingto be quite different than the
person sitting right next to me.

Erin (31:30):
Like he literally can fall asleep and in five minutes he is
having such a vivid dream and hetalks about it.
Where me, it's like, it takes mea little bit and if I even
remember, but it's just sointeresting.

Savannah (31:43):
I love that perspective, and I'm gonna, I'm
gonna jump in because there'ssomething I want to make sure we
don't miss, which thatperspective of listening to your
body and advocating for yourselfis so important.
And for older adults, I thinkit's also very important for
their caregiver to be involvedin knowing about how their sleep
is going, and if they're havinga problem, being able to
advocate for them.

(32:04):
we do know that there arespecific links with insomnia and
obstructive sleep apnea anddementia.
And if someone's sleep concernis not being taken seriously, we
know that there could be somelater effects down the line.
Sometimes it takes 10 or 15years, but we could start seeing
those mood and memory problemscome up.

(32:24):
And the research shows us thatwhen we treat obstructive sleep
apnea or insomnia in olderadults.
it decreases their risk ofdementia by about 20 percent,
which I think is reallyimportant to know.
And it's really hard sometimesfor older adults, especially in
those later years, to regulatesome of these things on their
own.
They might have a lot oftrouble, maybe it's mood or

(32:47):
memory or cognition wise,remembering that they had a goal
to be up, get up and get out ofbed when they wake up versus
staying in bed and restingbecause their body hurts.
Or they may not remember whyit's important for them to take
multiple walks outside duringthe day.
And they sometimes need thatcaregiver to also be informed
about sleep health, so that thecaregiver can say, Hey, I know

(33:11):
we had talked about this before,but here's a reminder.
Let's go take a walk.
Let's get outside.
I want your body to be feelinggood today.
And remember, we want to, playcards tonight.
I would, it would be so fun ifyou felt alert and able to do
that.
So if we can keep you activeduring this day, you'll have a
better chance of not feelinglike you're going to drop asleep

(33:31):
at 7

Erin (33:33):
I love that.
I know we talked about a littlebit like insomnia and, a few
other things, but if we couldreally dive in, because I'm not
even sure, what are some of thedisorders that can happen or are
happening to people?
And insomnia, I've heard it, butwhat does that really mean?

Savannah (33:52):
definitely.
Because there's a lot of people,I actually recently did an
interview series where I wastalking to people who experience
insomnia and who are working inthe tech industry, because I had
a hunch that there was like anoverlap between that particular
profession and sleep difficulty,which there was, I found, but I
was talking to them and so manypeople reached out to me and
said, yeah, I think I haveinsomnia, but they might really

(34:14):
have had obstructive sleep apneaor a circadian rhythm disorder,
and they just grouped all thesleep issues as insomnia.
So most people don't actuallyknow the differences.
Insomnia is, a dissatisfactionwith the quality or quantity of
your sleep.
Meaning that either you'rehaving a difficult time falling

(34:34):
asleep, or a difficult timestaying asleep, or maybe a
difficult time waking up muchtoo early.
And this is causing you toeither not get enough sleep
throughout the night, or maybeyou're getting enough sleep but
it's feeling not very restful.
You're feeling really fatiguedand exhausted throughout the
day.
So that's basically whatinsomnia is, and that's what it

(34:56):
can look like.
a different sleep disorder,which is also more common in
older adults, is obstructivesleep apnea.
And this is a breathing disorderthat happens when there becomes
some kind of blockage, in yourairway as you're sleeping.
And it can show up as snoring.
You could be snoring reallyloudly.
And not really think anything iswrong with your sleep, but find

(35:18):
yourself really exhausted duringthe day or dozing off during the
day.
And if someone, maybe a bedpartner or a caregiver, has
heard you snoring very loudly,like really loudly or maybe has
witnessed you stop breathingduring your sleep and then do
that kind of gasping that bigsnore and then a pause and then
like, like, I don't know ifyou've heard that before.

(35:39):
It's scary when you do that'snot just intense snoring that
could actually be you notgetting oxygen while you're
asleep and that has a lot ofreally unfortunate health
effects like leading to Yeah.
stroke, heart attack, otherheart disease conditions.
so we really do want to identifythat and treat that.

(36:00):
research shows us that 75percent of people in the U.
S.
who have sleep apnea are goingundiagnosed if they don't
realize.
so that's really important tonotice.

John (36:11):
Wow.
I know.
I'm learning so much aboutsleep.

Savannah (36:15):
It's good stuff.

John (36:17):
is.
Very complex.
I'm just curious and this is forme.
I hope our listeners are curiousabout this too, but, why does
some people dream and othersdon't, or you don't remember
your dreams?
sometimes I have some prettyintense, pretty incredible
dreams or whatever and I wake upand they're gone.
And, thank goodness sometimes Italk in my sleep because then

(36:37):
she can tell me what I'mdreaming about.

Erin (36:39):
I am going to share this story because it sticks out.
I remember him saying a fewchoice curse words, and we, he
had to get the bat to kill thesnake.

John (36:49):
Yeah.
There was a snake that was, wethrew in the oven and it was him
And sister busting through theglass.
And so I was yelling at mysister to kill the blankety
blank blank with a back.
And I was, I guess we werelaying in bed next to each other
and I was sound asleep and I wasscreaming this yes in my sleep.
Uh,'cause I didn't want this bigsnake to get out but you know, I

(37:10):
don't think I've ever heard hertalking her sleep.
Or snore or anything like that.
I Yeah, not a nose breather.
Her nose is too small to be ableto breathe through that thing.
But, but so if you could justtouch lightly on on kind of a
better understanding of why,sometimes we don't remember our

(37:31):
dreams or, or some of us talk inour sleep So what are some of
those things all about?

Savannah (37:37):
Yeah.
So there's a lot of undiscoveredthings about dreaming that we
haven't quite put a finger onyet.
In terms of the research, wedon't we don't know for certain
right now why people remembertheir dreams or don't.
We do know that everyone doesdream and they just don't many
times they just don't rememberit.

(37:57):
But everyone experiences thestage of sleep called rapid eye
movement.
And that's primarily wheredreaming happens.
And this is an important stageof sleep because it helps with,
memory consolidation, like yourshort term and your long term
memory is organizing things thatyou've experienced throughout
your day and it's putting it inboxes in your long term memory

(38:19):
and cementing those.
Sometimes dreaming is animportant process in that, that
it's, it's categorizinginformation from your day.
the from what I've seen in theresearch and this is culture by
culture.
We could talk in different waysabout this.
And of course, I would respectanyone's cultural beliefs around
this.
But from what we have seen inthe research, there's not really

(38:39):
a whole lot of meaning to ourIt's really just that our dreams
are our, our brain sending offsignals, trying to categorize
information and processinformation from what we've been
experiencing throughout the day.
And it also helps us practiceexperiencing emotions, practice
responding to different Sothat's why a lot of the time we

(39:02):
might have anxious dreams or saddreams.
Or boring dreams, because ourbrain is doing different things
with that information.
It's processing it, it'slearning, it's practicing how it
might want to respond in thosesituations.
like a practice run for duringthe day.
So it, it really is doing a lotof useful brain work during that
time.

Erin (39:23):
I notice sometimes if I watch, if I watch certain things
or if I have a thought that'sheavy on my mind, that becomes
part of my, my dream or atnighttime it's Oh my gosh,
that's, that was crazy.
I watched that movie and now myworld is spinning it in a
different direction or I'mcontinuing the movie or

Savannah (39:42):
Exactly, because your mind is processing that
information, okay, we just tookin a lot of info from that
horror movie, and we need to,decide what information is
important for us to hold on to,what information actually
relates to our safety and ourneeds, and what information was
just entertaining and doesn'treally pertain to my day to day
life.
So it's sorting all of that out.
which is really important toowhen it comes to trauma.

(40:05):
Nightmares often are a symptomof trauma, and it's part of your
brain trying to rehearse asituation, figure out what your
needs are, what your feelingsare, what your safety
requirements are, and decide howit wants to So that's actually
really important that it's okayif we're having nightmares in
response to trauma.

(40:26):
However, if it's go, if it'songoing and it's causing us a
lot of distress.
There's also treatment for thatto help your brain move into
processing that content duringthe day, as opposed to having to
rely on processing it at night.

Erin (40:40):
Working in the veterans for a little bit, do you feel
that a lot of them haveunresolved issues or they
haven't talked to somebody orhave PTSD?
Because this generation, they'veseen a lot of war and different
things than our newergenerations.
And what really should they door, if anything, to process it?

Savannah (40:58):
Absolutely.
I think there's been a lot ofchange in the cultural
expectations in our societyabout the appropriateness of
discussing your feelings when itcomes to military service.
it's much more acceptable now tobe verbally processing and
discussing those things.
but the, the generation that'saging right now that we're

(41:19):
caring for often grew up in a,in a Sociocultural expectation
that they shouldn't be needingto discuss those things so they
have that all like like stuck inthem.
Their brain hasn't reallycategorized it and decided what
its safety needs were.
So our brain tries to do thatvia dreams, via nightmares, via

(41:41):
ruminations throughout the day,but if we try and block it.
It can't get the job done.
So it's going to make us keeprehearsing it over and over.
So my recommendations for thosepeople, especially our older
adults who have a lot of thosememories, just kind of like
locked up inside them, is todecide if that is really causing

(42:01):
an issue for them throughout theday.
And if it would be worth it tothem to return to that and maybe
talk with their loved ones ortheir family or even their
health care providers about it.
Because there are a lot of shortterm therapies that could help
them make peace with some ofthose experiences so they don't
have to keep reliving it orblocking it out and just being

(42:24):
numb, numb to their life.

Erin (42:26):
if they don't want to, because they're from a
generation of we don't talk andthey're just I don't want to
talk, are there things that theycan self do to self heal?
are there certain meditations,is there certain questions to
ask themselves to release that?
Because you and I both know, noteverybody will do it, but it's
important that they're at leastsomehow to self heal.

Savannah (42:48):
I definitely think meditation and mindfulness could
be a big part of that.
Because our body holds so muchtension around those
experiences.
And if we're not willing toverbally put words to some of
those, we can at least sense itin our body and practice.
there's a specific exercise Iuse with people in my sleep work

(43:08):
called progressive musclerelaxation.
And it's where yousystematically head to toe, go
through each muscle group.
You practice putting yourattention on it, noticing it,
tightening it for a few, forfive or 10 seconds, and then
releasing it and lettingyourself notice the sense of
relaxation that kind of floodsthose muscles.

(43:29):
So it's a way of bringingrelaxation into your body,
inviting yourself to be aware ofwhere you're holding that
tension.
And it might be due to emotionaltension or your past experiences
that are being housed in certainparts of your body.
Bringing awareness to that andpracticing getting in touch with
that tension and then, and thenreleasing it and focusing on the

(43:53):
sensations of peace andrelaxation that come in.
That's a way of invitingcleansing and safety into your
body.

John (44:00):
I'm glad you asked that because there are so many people
like they're either afraid ofthe expense of hiring somebody
such as yourself to help them,get better sleep.
and men, especially, I shouldn'tsay this because it's such a
general statement, but I feellike men sometimes are so proud.
They don't want to admit they'rehaving challenges with

(44:22):
something, whether it's sleep orwhatever.
They'd rather just be tough andgo, yeah, I don't have any
issues or, I have no problems,but deep down inside they do.
And when it goes to, consideringfinding somebody or getting that
support, how do they findsomebody or what do you
recommend the process is, for.

(44:45):
Trying to research to getyourself that support.
You need one, either by hiringsomebody such as yourself or by
finding things, that they can doto improve their sleep.
How do they get that started?

Savannah (45:00):
So there I think are a lot of great resources in the
community depending on where youlive.
the VA is a great place to look,for like resources and
recommendations.
They have a lot of freeresources online, the VA.
they have a lot of likeeducation online about how to
respond to these differentexperiences, whether it's PTSD,
whether it's insomnia.

(45:21):
but also talking with yourdoctor about it, I think is
really useful because you cantell them, Hey, I don't want to
go see a therapist, but I needsome other resources.
Where can you send me?
There are oftentimes in thecommunity, there will be like
free mindfulness or meditationgroups, or like Tai Chi groups,
things where you're, you'removing your body in a gentle

(45:43):
way, you're making some maybesocial connections and that
promotes healing for you thatdoes help and assist with your
sleep that can also help andassist with your experience of
anxiety, depression, trauma.
so looking for those resourcescan be really helpful.
I think there are a lot ofuseful online spaces, but I know

(46:04):
some older adults have a hardertime navigating online spaces.
So that's why I'm thinking, goto your community center, talk
with your, your medical teamabout it.
If you're comfortable askingyour family to do some online
research for you and just sendyou like directly to the places
that you should go for yourarea, I think that would be
really useful too, justdepending on your comfort level.

(46:26):
In terms of finding a sleepprovider, You can definitely
talk to your doctor and getreferrals for your area, but you
could also just look at, there'sa website called.
I, it's either I think you justGoogle C.
B.
T.
I.
directory.
Cognitive behavioral therapy forinsomnia, and it'll bring up a

(46:47):
worldwide directory of providersin your area who are doing this
work.
so there's a lot of ways thatyou can just quickly and easily
find someone, whether that's anin person provider that you want
to or just different meditationapps.
one specifically that I wouldrecommend for sleep is called
CBTI Coach, which is a free appthat the VA created.

(47:08):
And it has a lot of theeducation about sleep that I
shared here today in the appthat you can go and learn on
your own.
It also has like meditationresources, relaxation exercises
on there that you can use.
And then it also has a way thatyou can track your sleep using
the app if you're comfortable orwanting to do that.

Erin (47:28):
That's awesome.
Yeah, I have two more questionsreal quick.
if someone isolates themself andthey're just not around, how
does that affect their sleep, ifit does at all?
And then my second I'll comeback to.

Savannah (47:47):
Okay.

John (47:48):
Well, along with that, along with isolation is
loneliness, right?
Because a lot of times, thereare maybe people that haven't
been, they haven't gottenmarried or something like that.
And then they get older and theystart getting lonely and
partner.
They lost a partner.
And, so maybe, If you couldtouch a little bit on how

(48:09):
people, how that affects peoplesleep too, because I know it
probably does it.

Savannah (48:16):
Absolutely.
I would say it goes along thesame line as light intake and
eating schedule.
Your social schedule does thesame thing for your circadian
rhythm.
When you are regularly doingactivities with other people, it
reminds your brain what time ofday it is.
Because obviously when yousleep, you're typically not

(48:36):
doing a lot of interacting withother people.
So if you're awake and you'reinteracting, your brain goes,
Oh, this is the time we'resupposed to be awake and alert.
so it can be really important toreally try and schedule those
activities, especially if youfind yourself getting really
drowsy early in the evening, tryand schedule activities with
other people, in the earlyevening that can help keep you

(48:59):
accountable with staying active.
and this is also actually aintervention that we use for
depression as well.
It's called behavioralactivation.
You tend to feel better when youare doing more, which is
interesting.
People who are depressed feellike really intimidated by the
idea of really doing anything.

(49:21):
But they often report that ifthey do take, take the
initiative and get themselvesto, that movie or that dinner
with a friend or whatever itwas, that card game, They
usually do end up feeling moreenergized, even though it felt
like it took them so much energyto get there.
So it's really the same thingwith your sleep and with older
adults, the more active they canbe in their social life.

(49:44):
it's going to do the same thingfor their body as.
eating on a regular schedule,having light intake on a regular
schedule.
It's really going to help yourbrain feel confident about what
time of day it is and also helpswith your mood and your sense of
connection.

Erin (50:01):
Okay, red lights, technology, and a good routine
for when we fall asleep.
It's all all together.

Savannah (50:09):
Yep, exactly.
So I recommend people have awind down routine that some
somewhere, within the hourbefore they're going to bed and
that could be anything that youexperience as relaxing, but just
setting the intention that I'mgoing to slow down and relax my
body.
I'm going to decrease thearousal in my mind and in my, in

(50:31):
my physiology.
for some people that actuallymight mean using technology.
there's a little bit of mythbusting I'm going to do here
because all of our old, it's adebate.
All of all of our, past sleepresearchers have said technology
is like a no go.
And the idea behind that isbecause there's light that your
eyes are intaking and that itmight, shift your circadian

(50:54):
rhythm.
However, the more recentresearch that we're seeing is
that that light really isn'tmaking a big impact as long as
we're getting a lot of lightduring the day.
So if you're in a dark house allday long, and then you watch a
movie with a brightly litscreen, yeah, that's gonna
impact your sleep and yourcircadian rhythm.
But if you're getting lots ofdaylight throughout the day, and

(51:15):
then you dim your lights in theevening around your house, but
you use your phone, or you watcha movie, you turn the brightness
a little bit down, that'sperfectly fine.
The, the light during the daywill, will win out, will
overpower the little bit oflight that you're getting in the
What's more important abouttechnology use from what we're
seeing in the more recentresearch is your level of

(51:36):
engagement and arousal.
So if you are in bed watching anexciting like horror film and
then you say, okay, it's over.
I'm gonna go to sleep.
That's not gonna work out toowell for you because your
physical body is engaged inexcitement and tension and
activation and your mind isthinking like how could they

(51:57):
they shouldn't have opened thatdoor like you're really in it.
playing video games.
Video games are uniquelydesigned to hold the user in
this perfect state in betweendifficulty and ease and
enjoyment.
That's what they're designed todo, to make you play for hours
and hours and hours because itholds you right in the middle of

(52:17):
the difficulty and the enjoymentthat you're getting from it.
those can be difficult prior tosleep because it keeps you
really engaged and alert.
If you're playing a boring videogame, like if you're on your
phone doing sudoku, but it's ascreen It doesn't matter because
you're, unless you're like areally intense Sudoku player,
it, it, your arousal level isgoing to be decreasing as you

(52:41):
play that and as you're windingdown for bed.

Erin (52:44):
I play like the dot games where you connect things like
things that I don't have tothink it's very mindless and
it's a debate that we havebecause he plays Sudoku
sometimes I'm like that's a gameI don't play when I sleep
because then I really have tothink or if I'm just connecting
colors or if I'm doing this it'sjust like it's a way for my
brain just to go okay

John (53:03):
I don't play games usually.
Usually what, what happens withme is I walk into the bedroom.
I pulled the sheets back.
I get in bed and within fiveminutes I'm completely out where
shit then I'll toss and turn.
I'll maybe wake up briefly andlook over and it's an hour later
and she's still playing this dotgame

Erin (53:22):
It's not an hour later.
To him it feels like it.
it.
could be ten to fifteen minuteslater.
Yeah, it's an hour later.
It's not.

Savannah (53:29):
I feel like I've touched a hot spot.
This

Erin (53:33):
little bit.
Just a little bit.
Cause we have that debate.

Savannah (53:37):
to be mindful, is to notice your own patterns and to
do some experimentation.
Try, try a week just readingyour book before you go to bed
and try a week playing your gamebefore you go to bed and see if
it promotes you to stay awakelonger doing one or the other.
See if you feel more relaxeddoing one or the other.
This is all trial and error.

Erin (53:58):
My thing is I have so many things going on my mind at
nighttime when everyone'ssleeping is when I get super
creative.
So for me to go to bed and nothave something to take that off
my mind is very hard.
And so I play that game and justtrying to get him to go, the
research says I'm like, but I,know my body.
I, this is what works for me.
So I'm

John (54:19):
intentional.
So I don't read a book forenjoyment.
I read a book because I want tobecome educated more about
something.
Or if usually if I'm online, I'mresearching something to help me
sleep better or help me eatbetter or whatever.
I'm, I constantly, and I think Igo too much overboard with this,
trying to utilize every wakingmoment.

(54:41):
And to, to accomplish somethingright?
Instead of having those momentsto really unwind and relax and
enjoy.
And I think she's better withthat.
Definitely better with doingsome things that she enjoys and
giving herself that downtimewhere I don't know why, but it's
Oh, I gotta learn this.

(55:01):
I gotta do this.
I got it.
You know?

Savannah (55:03):
And that, that's a predisposing factor for
insomnia, is people who havethat little bit more of like
intense personality that theyhave to be super efficient, get
everything done, like that kindof intensity.
It creates tension in our body.
So if you're five minutes beforeyou go to bed, trying really
hard to get something done, itmight be harder for you to fall
asleep.
It sounds like for you, it'spretty easy.

(55:25):
So thankfully that hasn'tdisrupted your sleep.
But if too many other, if toomany other factors line up, that
could be something that puts youover the edge into having a real
sleep problem.

John (55:34):
Yeah, I mean, I literally, by the time I go to bed, I pass
out.
it's it's down time, right?
It's oh, oh, that's, yeah.
It's not oh, okay, let's talk,or whatever.
No, it's, uh,

Erin (55:46):
or whatever.
No, it's, it's,

Savannah (55:56):
yeah.
and I would say it's less aboutwhat you do and more about how
you feel while you're doing itand and having the same reliable
routine every time, or at leastmost of the time.
Yeah, consistency so that you'rereally giving your body a lot of
feedback of, okay, this iswhat's happening next.
It's like when you're raisingchildren and you're having to
give them a lot of informationwhen it comes to transitions in

(56:18):
between activities, you'regiving them those cues at 30
minutes at 15 minutes at 10minutes about.
Here's what we're gearing up todo next.
It really helps.

Erin (56:28):
The red light, does that, is that beneficial to have in a
bedroom?
Especially if you're getting upin the night to go to the
restroom, does that help so youstay in a deeper stage?

Savannah (56:39):
I haven't personally done a lot of research on, on
red light.
I'm sure you could findinformation that tells you one,
that tells you both things,right?
I haven't really seen anythingcompelling that, that was
consistently enough in theresearch that made me feel like
I needed to do that.
I definitely would say for olderadults.
Who are at more at risk of fallsto have some kind of dim, dim

(57:01):
light that is in their room.
but make sure the room stays atleast much darker than their
daytime functioning room.
And spend as much time outsideof their bedroom in a well lit
area during the day as possible.

John (57:15):
Okay, Before she, she always asks this one question
and she gets really excitedabout it at the end of our
conversation.
However, I really need to askthis because this is something
that I've always wondered aboutwhen it comes to sleep.
Every individual is different,but when it comes to best
practices, what is thehealthiest way after you've had

(57:37):
your evening of sleep, what isthe healthiest way to wake up?
Yeah.
is it best to have, a fire alarmgoing off that jolts you out of
sleep?
Or is it better to transitiongently into

Erin (57:50):
my gosh, some shots are being taken! No,

Savannah (57:53):
Yeah.

John (57:54):
I'm just curious.

Savannah (57:56):
The best way is the way that works for you.
So it, yeah, I'm gonna just beflat about that.
Yeah.
if the people, people frequentlywho are in a solid routine, the
more routine they can have,especially with their light
exposure, helps their body to beable to get ready for
transitions like we were justtalking about and from sleeping

(58:17):
to waking is a transition thatif it's always occurring around
the same time every day, it'sAnd your body knows that because
you're always giving it light atcertain times of day and all
those other routine behaviors.
then it's more likely that itwill be ready to wake up if it's
gotten the amount of sleep itneeded and if it knows what the
routine is.
So if you're constantly gettingup at different times every day,

(58:41):
if you sleep in on the weekends,but get up early on the weekdays
and you keep switching back andforth, you're going to have a
harder time with thattransition.
Some people just sleep reallydeeply.
And they have a strongerexperience with sleep inertia,
sleep inertia is, the, thatpressure that, that keeps you
asleep and it's like a fog.
You have to fight through for afew minutes when you're

(59:02):
transitioning from sleep to wakeand just biologically, some
people have a much strongersleep inertia than others.
For me, I can, haveconversations that I don't
remember in those few minutesbetween sleeping and waking, or
I'll have, I'll have dreams andI'll be like, so we're gonna do
that thing tonight, right?
And they're like, what?
We've never talked about that.

(59:22):
But in, but in my brain, inthose moments between sleeping
and waking, I thought we hadtalked about that.
So for everyone, it's reallydifferent.
Experiment with some differentthings, in a, in a systematic
way and see what works for you.

John (59:37):
so thank you so much, you've been absolutely, you've
been absolutely amazing.
And, I'm going to ask thisquestion.
Cause I know Erin wants to askthis question, but I'm going to
ask it instead today.
So, um, yeah, so this, this issomething that is very dear to
Erin and I, it.
It doesn't have a lot to do withsleep, except, we don't get a

(01:00:00):
lot of it when we do this.
Yeah.
so when it comes to traveladventures, things you love to
do that just feed your soul,whereas maybe a place that you
have always wanted to go thatyou haven't gone, what's on your
adventure list, or maybe someplace that you've gone that you
highly recommend people likeourselves or other listeners are

(01:00:20):
listening to this, that theymight be interested to try.

Savannah (01:00:23):
would love it at some point to explore Asia and India.
I think those are, those arecultures that I have not had the
opportunity to interact with asmuch as I wish.
and I know there's so muchrichness there and so much I
could learn from and so muchbeauty that I would really love
to experience.
I have been to, to Germany, toEngland, England, Britain.

(01:00:48):
So there's, I've gotten, and Ialso come from, I have German in
my family, so I've gotten toconnect, with that side of
things for myself.
and I've been to Italy in avery, I'm also Italian.
I've been to Italy and on a veryshort trip, I wish that could
have been longer.
but I definitely would love togo see Asia at some point and
like really, really learn fromthem.

Erin (01:01:08):
I, I was blessed 12 years.
And definitely, if it's acountry you can get to, it's
just, You The people arebeautiful.
The culture is beautiful.
It's just I highly recommend it.

John (01:01:19):
Yeah.
We are going there in 2025.
We already have started.
It's a family reunion.
Yeah.
going back to Yeah.
so I'm pretty excited aboutthat.
so Asia is a place I've neverbeen.
we did go to Indonesia thatwasn't too far away and a
beautiful culture.
The Indonesian islands are, arebeautiful list.

(01:01:41):
Yeah.

Erin (01:01:41):
it on

Savannah (01:01:43):
Well, thanks so much.
you guys.

Erin (01:01:45):
thank you.
This is, I, you, we get intothese subjects and we just want
to keep diving deeper and deeperand you learn so much, we can
only do so much in a day.
So thank you again for your timeand for the information.

John (01:01:55):
Yeah.
Thank you

Savannah (01:01:56):
Absolutely.
I wish the best to all yourlisteners, and I would just say,
if they're struggling with theirsleep, they don't need to do
that alone.
There's a lot of ways that theycan find support.

John (01:02:08):
Thank you for tuning in to another episode of Connect
Empower.
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Erin (01:02:22):
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John (01:02:43):
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John (01:03:19):
I'm John.

Erin (01:03:19):
I'm Erin.
Until next Wednesday.