October 10, 2024 • 29 mins
Anne Rajoo, a visionary leader and the driving force behind Virtufully, shares her transformative journey from a quaint village in East Germany to the alluring island of Mauritius. As she takes us through her life, Anne reveals how she balances being a mother, entrepreneur, and expat, all while navigating cultural shifts and family dynamics. Her story isn't just about the places she's lived but about the life she's crafted—one of harmony, professional success, and personal fulfillment. With insights into her strategic outsourcing business, Anne passionately helps female entrepreneurs streamline their operations.
Join us as we unravel the challenges women face in chasing perfection in both motherhood and entrepreneurship. Anne opens up about overcoming societal pressures that lead to burnout and the importance of setting boundaries to prioritize meaningful work. Her candid anecdotes about breastfeeding struggles and the pursuit of high achievements highlight the toll these pressures can take. This episode is a heartfelt reflection on rediscovering joy amidst life's demands and the continuous journey of learning, especially in a digital age filled with unique parenting hurdles. Listen in to hear how Anne helps other mothers, like herself, find magic beyond perfectionism.
Find Anne Here: https://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=100010137030852
Mama Mental Wellness Guide: https://www.sydneycrowe.com/mamamentalwellness589191
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
Hey, hey, mamas, welcome back to Conquering Chaos
.
A mom's guide to self-care andsanity.
I'm your host, sydney Crowe,and today we have Anne Raju,
from Mauritius.
Anne is a virtual assistant,but she is the founder and CEO
of Virtually, an e-assistancehub that helps female
(00:20):
entrepreneurs streamline andscale their businesses through
strategic outsourcing.
Anne's goal is to guide dynamicwomen on a journey towards
mindful mastery of work and life, reshaping the way we perceive
productivity.
She also is the creative forcebehind Magic Mom Life and
Peaceful Productivity, designedto support ambitious women
(00:41):
balancing careers withmotherhood.
Anne's journey began as a careerwoman, wife and mother of two
young boys.
She felt the pressure ofmotherhood and the pursuit of
perfection, but she shifted herfocus towards what truly matters
helping mothers become focused,productive and fulfilled
without succumbing to burnout.
Her dream of an extraordinarylife led her from a tiny village
(01:02):
in East Germany to London andfinally to Mauritius, where she
now resides with her family.
Together, anne and Virtuallyare redefining success by
creating a harmonious blend ofprofessional achievement and
personal fulfillment for femaleentrepreneurs.
If you're a woman looking tostreamline and scale your
business, connect with Anne Rajuand Virtually to take your
(01:22):
entrepreneurial journey to newheights.
Welcome, anne.
Speaker 2 (01:27):
Thank you so much.
That was my dog barking.
I hope you didn't hear that toomuch.
Speaker 1 (01:32):
That's okay, it's just life right, like we've got
kids and dogs in the backgroundall the time.
Kids and dogs and all the otheranimals, yep, perfect.
So why don't you tell thelisteners who you are and what
you're all about and how youlanded in Mauritius?
Speaker 2 (01:47):
Perfect.
So why don't you tell thelisteners who you are and what
you're all about and how youlanded in Mauritius?
Yeah, so I'm originally fromGermany.
You can figure out the accent,but I've left more than half of
my life ago.
I figured just a few months ago.
I always wanted to travel, so Istudied tourism and event
management and then went toLondon, was supposed to stay
there for about a year, stayedthere for 10 years and met my
husband, who is from Mauritius.
(02:08):
So we got married, had ourfirst child there and then felt
like the fast pace of London isgreat when you're single or a
young couple, but we didn'tquite feel it was the right
place to raise a family singleor a young couple, but we didn't
quite feel it was the rightplace to raise a family.
And my, I think, my, my idea oflike seeing the world just came
(02:30):
back to me like, well, there'sworse places to live than in
Mauritius, so let's just go.
And I had said it out loud andhe quit his job and did
everything like for him.
It was like he's been waitingfor it.
So then we came here.
Everything like for him, it waslike he's been waiting for it.
So then we came here and that'snow eight years ago.
I can't believe it.
And in the meantime we hadanother child, so a second boy.
(02:51):
There is now Lucas, who is nine, and Liam, who's four and a
half, and they are growing up inthis beautiful, amazing little
speck of the world.
Like we said before, werecorded.
Sometimes it's not on the map,you sometimes even have to look
it up where what it is.
But it's just really paradiseand I'm really grateful to be
here and to have that experiencewith them, and grateful to have
(03:15):
the opportunity to now build mybusiness.
I've been working here before,but then, yeah, covid came and I
lost my job and there was nojobs to be found.
So I started working online andnever looked back and couldn't
imagine going back to a job andreally tried to find that
(03:36):
elusive balance Maybe I preferthe term harmony between living,
you know, the adult life andhaving fun for myself, but also
having a really great time withmy children and, yeah, just
seeking this extraordinary lifeand finding a way to create that
for me.
That what it means for me.
(03:57):
It probably doesn't mean thesame thing for other people, but
, yeah, I'm really happy where Iam at the moment and how things
have gone.
But I'm sure we're going to getinto the more challenging bits
of that journey because, whileit's very nice now, it hasn't
always been.
Speaker 1 (04:12):
Yeah.
So why don't you tell thelisteners a little bit about
that?
Like I was an expat when I wasyounger and it is really fun to
live abroad, but I think you'refinding it nice to be there
because you have family androots on your husband's side,
and so why don't you tell thelisteners a little bit about
that?
Like you've basically uprootedyour understanding and your
(04:33):
beliefs to go and live with yourhusband's family and nearby and
what he knows, but that's gotto be very different than how
you were raised.
Speaker 2 (04:42):
Yeah, absolutely yeah .
I come from that small villagein East Germany.
Both my parents were workingmiddle-class, just a very simple
upbringing.
But I always wanted to see theworld.
So I went to London, had lotsof fun and then met my husband,
who at the time was living withhis mother, and I eventually
(05:02):
moved in with his mother, livingwith his mother, and I
eventually moved in with hismother, which was already one of
the very culture shock, strangethings to do, because I'm that
independent, strong woman thatmy parents raised and now I live
with my mom and I still livewith her, or she lives with us,
depending on how you want to seeit.
Okay, yeah, that was definitelyan interesting step to to to
(05:24):
make, but back then it had lotsof advantages because I didn't
have to take care of most of thehouse household, which is just
not something I like, and evennow she really helps me with
lots of the cooking and thecleaning and obviously it's nice
to have the support for mychildren, even though it's not
(05:45):
always perfect.
It comes with certainchallenges, but it also is
really a part of the culturehere.
So it's a lot ofmulti-generational households
and she is a single, single,older woman and yeah, I don't.
I don't have a mom anymore.
My mom passed away a few yearsago and so it's it's got more
(06:06):
positives than negatives, butthat's definitely one aspect.
That wasn't quite what I thoughtmy life would be.
I thought just very independent, but yeah, and then obviously
when we left London, it wasquite hard because back in
London I could go back and forthto Germany every couple of
months, would see my family, andthen my dad had never traveled,
for example.
(06:26):
He had never an interest intraveling, he didn't want to
come at first.
Now he likes it, now he seeswhy we moved here.
But it was quite hard.
They didn't quite get why wewanted to move so far or why I
wanted to move so far away.
But for me, really, I saw thisopportunity, or I saw this
beautiful place where I reallyfelt I can raise my children in
(06:47):
a very safe environment.
They can be outdoors a lot andwe can just have.
We have so much sunshine andbeautiful weather and we can
have so much fun.
It's very different from how Igrew up, but it's for me it felt
like, while I was happy in mychildhood, I felt it was always
a bit, yeah, boring that's why Iwanted to leave Germany yeah,
(07:09):
you got that travel plan rightand I really love, love, the
multicultural aspect here.
Mauritius I have a friend who'scurrently visiting and she went
to the Capitoline so that I'venever seen a place that has so
many different influences,because we've got all the
cultures.
Mauritius is the only Africancountry where Hinduism is the
main, main religion, and it'sjust.
(07:31):
I love that, like I feel mychildren can have so many things
that they see and they can pickthe best things that they that
they really enjoy, and that'swhat I'm trying to do as well.
I try to keep my German cultureas much as I can.
It's not easy.
It's been over 20 odd yearsthat I have left.
I don't even remember most ofthe things, to be honest, but I
(07:51):
try to bring it as much as I can.
But then I also have all theother aspects of the different
cultures that we have here and Ifeel that gives them something
that can be really special in aworld that can be sometimes
quite narrow-minded.
If we want to go that way, yeah,no, that's okay.
Speaker 1 (08:09):
Yeah, yeah, and I absolutely love that I'm going
to have to put Mauritius on ourmap, because my husband and I
are definitely big believers ineducating our kids outside of a
classroom and so we try totravel with them as much as
possible, because we do live ina really small town in Canada
and there isn't a ton ofdiversification.
As the town is growing, we'restarting to see some
(08:30):
diversification.
They really don't have a ton ofoutside influences, and so
that's why travel has become soimportant for us.
So I share those values.
I think that's so important toallow your kids to experience or
understand so many differentthings about the world and then
make the decisions that bestsuit them right, so that we're
not building these like cookiecutter fit in a box type molds.
(08:54):
As I was raised as I was raised,it was I felt like while I was
exposed to things, I very muchhad a checklist, like I was very
much like I have to go toschool, I have to get the job,
get married, have kids, likethere was like a checklist that
I feel like I had to follow inorder to feel like I was doing
well in life, and I don't wantthat for my kids.
I want them to make their owndecisions because, while success
(09:16):
can be defined by a widevariety of measures, I think a
lot of people put financial atthe very top of that and I don't
think that that's necessarilythe highest definition of
success.
Right, you could be thehappiest person in the world and
that makes you the mostsuccessful, so I think that
that's really important andreally cool that you guys have
(09:37):
such a diversification therethat your kids are able to be
exposed to, so that's reallyamazing it's beautiful, but my
older son will tell you that itbecomes very boring.
Speaker 2 (09:47):
So now it's.
He looks outside to the world.
He obviously watches youtubeand all this stuff and
everything is like oh my god,they have this and they have
that, because quite a lot ofthings we don't necessarily have
or it's complicated.
We don't have anything likeamazon we can't like.
Shipping is incrediblyexpensive and it takes forever
(10:08):
and and so we don't have a lotof that culture of like buy the
next thing and this quick andinstant gratification, but to go
to a shop and then it's notavailable or it's a lot more
expensive than it's in otherplaces.
So he's very much like oh mygod, we need to.
I want to live in Germanybecause we recently traveled
there oh my God, america is socool.
(10:30):
So it's like he's getting thatnow that this is a very small
place.
So this is a downside.
Sometimes it can feel a littlebit yeah, just tiny and a little
bit repetitive, because we'vebeen here for a long time and
then obviously, with COVID, wedidn't travel so much.
But yeah, I think it opensconversations of like there's
there's certain things, thatthere are certain reasons why we
(10:51):
came, but also, I think whatyou said.
With the checklist I felt verymuch the same, even though I was
always maybe labeled a bit of arebellious person, even as a
young, like as a teenager, andgot in a lot of trouble.
But I think this checklist itwas so ingrained culturally that
obviously, as I grew up andthen lived in London and had my
(11:15):
stable job and met my husbandand get married and had my child
, like I definitely followedthese checklists and we bought a
car and we bought a place andand so on and so on, even though
I always thought no, no, no, Iwould never, ever do that.
I will be very maybe notfeminist, but very like I'll do
my own thing without having tofollow these things and my
husband will surely be like a50% equal partner and all of
(11:38):
that.
But then reality came and itdefinitely wasn't like that, not
that he wouldn't, wouldn't wantto do that, I was just, I think
, what happened for me in earlymotherhood I, the strong women,
came through in the sense oflike I can do it all I can do it
, you don't need to help me.
I can.
I can do all the night nights Ican do.
(11:59):
For example, I was strugglingto breastfeed.
It just didn't work out.
But I was adamant.
I was breast pumping likeexclusively breast pumping for
nine months drove me crazy atthe end but I was like, no, no,
no, he's got to have the bestthat is possible and breast is
best.
I was really putting myselfthrough a lot of that pressure
of like I can do it because it'ssupposed to be natural and I'm,
(12:24):
I would say, what they call ahigh achiever.
I always try to do my best,always be perfection, like I
said, like, yeah, like I said,perfection really got me into
burnout.
So, yeah, I think this is likeit was a lot from this checkbox.
Speaker 1 (12:37):
Yeah, yeah, we had a very similar journey because my
oldest we struggled tobreastfeed as well and it was
like I would pump and bottlefeed and we'd have to supplement
with formula because I neverhad enough supply.
And I did that until six monthsand finally I was like, okay,
well, at least she's made it tosix months and I still felt like
it wasn't enough.
So that level of perfectionismis definitely very much
(13:00):
ingrained in myself and can leadcan definitely lead to burnout.
So why don't you talk a littlebit about that, Because I know
that's a lot of what you helpwomen entrepreneurs with now is
avoiding that burnout, notnecessarily being stuck in that
perfection state.
Why don't you tell them alittle bit about that?
Speaker 2 (13:27):
was living in in the UK then and there was paid
maternity leave, so we werehaving the best time going to
all these play groups and alwaysresearching what does he need
developmentally, what is thelike, how can I foster his
development?
And and and also continuingwith my sport, for example.
I was aware I always lovedsport, so always trying to do
all the things, and he had aterrible sleep pattern as well,
(13:49):
so not sleeping enough and justkeep going, going, going,
because that's what I was usedto.
Then we moved to Mauritius andlife was beautiful.
It was a beautiful place and wegot used to new things and set
up our new home and I got a newjob and obviously then
day-to-day life kicks in and thelittle one was in nursery, so
(14:13):
everything was going smoothly.
But you know, I mean nowadayslike time passes by so quickly.
So I think it must have beenlike three years just passed by
without really looking atanything I was doing and
eventually I started to feelreally, really sad in in this
beautiful place and in this lifethat we had created and just
(14:34):
not really feeling, feeling thethick like, just not happy and
not knowing why, you know,started to have arguments with
my husband felt like the job wasjust really horrible and
couldn't really point my fingerto what it was.
Started to have health issuesbecause, again, I still wasn't
sleeping, I still was doing fartoo much, not resting, not
(14:55):
taking care of myself, really.
And then my mom passed awayvery suddenly.
She was in Mauritius onholidays and went to bed and was
supposed to wake up very earlyfor her flight back to Germany
and she never woke up and thatreally was the moment where I
was like oh, shoot, like thiscan happen, like this happens to
(15:16):
me, like nothing bad everhappened to me.
Everything is fine, like and andyeah, I, I really just broke
down.
I was like this was notsupposed to happen and what is
this?
And I felt totally lost witheverything and obviously went
through all the grief processand yeah, and that's just
realized that life is reallyshort and all the ideas and
(15:40):
plans and visions I had of myextraordinary life, I didn't.
I didn't take care of them.
I just forgot all about mebecause I was mom first of all.
Yeah, a bit of my career,because it was important to me,
and a little bit of wife, buteven that wasn't enough because
obviously it led to relationshipissues and but everything else.
(16:01):
That was Anne, who had fun andwho was very creative, enjoyed
experiencing new things, doingsports I hadn't done any sports
in forever because there was notime.
I had left all of that behindand was just mom, wife and work.
And then, with the realizationthat life can be really short,
(16:23):
it's like, well, this is notquite the life I was looking for
and did some work on myself,worked with a coach, read loads
of self-help books, listened tolots of podcasts and realized
that I think, really, reallydeep down engraved and drained,
is this perfectionism alwaysbeing perfect?
but not in a good way, becausewhat what does bring you Life
(16:47):
first of all, is not perfect.
Your loved ones pass away whenyou don't ever have an idea that
this can happen, or whatevercan happen in life.
But I just really decided thatI don't want to be perfect
anymore, I want to have a goodlife, and it can be sometimes
really challenging, but as longas I have fun.
(17:08):
I think fun and joy are reallymy key ingredients in my day to
day and all the rest doesn'tmatter so much at the end of the
day and that's really when Ichanged how I looked at things.
You needed to progress incareer.
You needed to have that nicehouse, the next TV, the next car
.
(17:28):
That is really not important tome.
For me, really important is tobe with my boys.
But also to be with myself andto prioritize myself Not always
easy, because my husband is very, very close to me, he very much
enjoys to be with me and Ienjoy to be on my own sometimes,
(17:49):
so that doesn't go down toowell all the time, but it's been
really my focus to to sharewith them as a family why it's
important to me and to make themrealize that when, when I feel
good, happy mom, happy family,they say.
and it's just so true so yeah, Ireally let go of the
perfectionism that's like youget me the way I am today.
(18:12):
I put some makeup on because Iwasn't sure if you're going to
video record, but most of thedays I'm just.
Whatever happens, it's just.
It's just me on a normal dayand living my life.
Speaker 1 (18:22):
Yeah, I rarely wear makeup myself, like sometimes
when we go out for dinner, buteven for a podcast, I don't wear
makeup.
So you got, you got a leg upthere.
Well, I think that that'sbeautiful and I am so sorry to
hear about your mom it is.
It really is eye-opening whensomething like that happens and
you really just dig deep andstart to evaluate what's really
(18:43):
important, and kudos to you forturning it into a positive and
reevaluating what was importantand really finding more harmony
in your life, because I agreewith you, harmony is a much
better word than balance.
I mean, there is I've had thisconversation before where when I
think of balance, I feel likeit's like the legal scales, like
can you picture those likelegal scales?
(19:05):
And it's like life is never,ever equal, like sometimes my
career needs more of me,sometimes my family needs more
of me, and it's this ebb andflow Like it's never just like
okay, once I've achieved balance, like yay, I'm here and it's
going to stay that way.
You have to find a way to findlike harmony and I love that
word to enjoy the ebbs and flowsand find the ways to
(19:27):
communicate with your familywhen maybe work needs a little
bit more of you.
Or maybe you need a little bitmore time to yourself, or maybe
I recently had loss in my familyas well and I knew that my kids
needed more of me.
It was just like I had to pumpthe brakes on other things that
I had going on and just be withthem and enjoy that time and
connect with them, becausethat's what was needed.
(19:47):
And so why don't you talk alittle bit more about your magic
mom life and peacefulproductivity, because I love
those names.
Magic Mum Life Like who doesn'tneed that?
I definitely.
If there's a magic wand for mumlife, like, bring that over, I
wish.
Yeah, I haven't found it yet.
So talk a little bit aboutthese programs that you have.
Speaker 2 (20:07):
Yeah, so Magic, mum.
Life really came from thatjourney, from like just feeling
very, yeah, very, very sad anddisconnected from myself to
seeking the magic, because Ioften had these comments of,
like your life looks perfect.
Well, it did on on Instagramand Pinterest, but in reality
(20:27):
not so much, even when you liveon a beautiful island and when
you seem to have it all.
I seem seemed to have it all.
I had my job, I had my family,I had a husband who's always
been involved with the children,all of that but I didn't feel
there was any magic.
I felt it was really reallyjust really shallow, in the
sense that there was no, therewas not much purpose, there was
(20:48):
not much fun, and if there wasfun, it felt often the Pinterest
baking session very much like.
Am I doing this for me and thechildren, or am I doing this
because I feel obliged to do it?
As a good mom, I should bedoing some activities with them,
and so I felt like there's thismagic spark that I used to have
(21:08):
as a young person and I hadlost it and I really worked hard
on getting it back.
And as I was working on it, Istarted sharing with other moms
and we spoke initially like thiswhole idea of like it.
Only it's only me who's goingthrough that.
And if I share it, people lookat me like, oh, she is, she's a
rubbish mom, like how can shenot love motherhood and how can
(21:32):
she be looking for more?
And what more magical is therethan having your children?
But I shared it anyways.
The more I shared, the more Ihad people coming back to me
like me too, yeah, I feel thesame.
And that's when I thought, okay, like let me share my, my
knowledge, what I gained throughworking with coaches.
In the meantime I had done acoaching certificate myself and
(21:56):
so I started sharing and workingwith moms to help them finding
their magic.
And then, a couple of years downthe line, I came back to old
patterns and basically repeatedmy perfectionism that I had let
go in motherhood.
I repeated it inentrepreneurship.
So trying to be the perfectentrepreneur, following the
(22:18):
steps doing working really hardday and night and taking care of
my children in between, andthen realizing, oh, I'm burned
out again.
Oh, no, yeah.
And that's when, peacefulproductivity.
Because that's when I againstripped it back and said, well,
what's really important, what'sthe work that I really enjoy
(22:40):
what's the work that delivers anoutcome, that that brings
results and all the other thingsthat maybe someone else is
telling you to do that oreveryone else is doing it when
we're checking on the Internetand I'm like, well, no, I don't
have time for that.
So I really stripped it backdown in terms of what are the
(23:02):
basic things that I need to do.
I don't have long to do listsanymore.
I really know what is importantto me in my business and I have
very good boundaries now aroundmy business, which before I
didn't.
So, yeah, I worked again on allof these things that were coming
(23:22):
back from that deep downperfectionism into my
entrepreneurship.
And, because I'm a VA, I alsorealized that I help most of my
clients and moms, because that'sjust who I attract and resonate
most with, I think.
But I help them to obviously bemore productive and felt like
(23:43):
that's one element to get helpin your business or at home if
you can Like.
That's why my mom and I are sohelpful.
But it's all like differentelements that I realized are
really powerful when it comes tobeing productive.
But a lot of the mindset shiftsagain letting go of the
perfectionism, letting go of anyguilt of unrealistic
(24:05):
expectations, of societypressure who says, as an
entrepreneur, you've got to workreally hard and so on.
So, and your business should bedoing like this and you should
have six figures or sevenfigures or whatever it is.
There's all these outsideinfluences.
So, yeah, I started working onthose and again, I'm sharing it
with my community and it'spretty much a very raw and
(24:30):
vulnerable share.
I wouldn't say I'm the totalexpert.
I've definitely changed thingsand I'm seeing results from it,
but I'm still learning so muchas well.
Yeah, just like in motherhood,every time when we think we
figured something, out something, a next developmental phase
comes around the corner andwe're like, oh, what's that now?
entering the teenage years nowand okay.
Speaker 1 (24:54):
Yeah, like next level .
I read somewhere that somebodywas like we should start talking
about like our age, like it'slevels, like I'm at level 39,
almost level 40.
And I feel like that just likedescribes life right, like you
feel like you get to the nextlevel and there's going to be
new challenges and new rewardsand new things, but it just
feels I don't know, there'ssomething about it that just
(25:16):
makes me feel better to say likeI'm almost at level 40, instead
of like I'm almost 40 years old.
I don't know.
It's like parenting and all thethings right, Like, oh, I'm
almost at the next level and itis true Like entrepreneurship,
parenting.
I find so many similarities inboth of those universes because
you are like, I talked to myoldest a lot.
(25:36):
I'm like, just so you know,like we're learning and growing
up together.
It's okay.
Speaker 2 (25:41):
I can say that to me to be a mom.
Speaker 1 (25:43):
And there's all these different things that as she
encounters them.
And I feel like raising kidsnow in an age where, like,
social media is a big thing andthe internet like we didn't have
those when we were growing upand so at least until later in
life, and so like trying tonavigate that with them and it
is.
It is a learning process, andso is entrepreneurship.
(26:03):
Like you think you have onelevel unlocked and you're like,
okay, everything is really good,but then maybe you need to hire
on staff, or maybe you are nowoops, maybe you are now at the
next level in terms of income,and it comes with a whole other
slew of issues.
So I think that that's really,really important and I love that
you have these now.
Are these programs that peoplecan buy and they do on their own
(26:26):
, or is it you coaching withthem one on one?
How does that work?
Speaker 2 (26:30):
Yeah, so I've got a mini course that is the peaceful
productivity, your entry yeah,let's say entry product and then
I do one on one sessions andthe magic mom life.
I had a membership, which Ipaused at the moment because
it's just been becoming a littlebit too much, because the VA
business is has been shootingthrough the roof.
(26:53):
So, but yeah, I do, I do mostlyone-on-one, simply because it's
it's it's more flexible for mein terms of managing it with
that other part of the job andmy time zone, which can be
sometimes quite challenging andall of that.
But, yeah, mostly one-on-oneand a couple of online products.
But I'm working in thebackground, always working on
(27:13):
something that in a few monthswill come out, but it just
sometimes takes longer becausethere's too many things going on
.
Speaker 1 (27:21):
Yeah, it's the life with motherhood and
entrepreneurship right.
There's always things thatyou're trying to manage and
juggle.
Where can people find you, anne?
Speaker 2 (27:31):
Yeah, so I've got two websites One is annerajucomcom,
which is mostly focused onproductivity and motherhood, and
then I have the website for theVA agency, which is virtue
fully, but also Instagram isprobably the best place there
it's an underscore and Rajuunderscore and again where I
talk about mainly productivityand motherhood wonderful.
Speaker 1 (27:54):
Well, what one piece of advice would you give to the
moms that are listening outthere?
Speaker 2 (27:59):
yeah, I think, let go of the perfectionism.
If you have that trait in you,it's just not really helpful and
I think that the level ofperfectionism a lot of us thrive
for a few levels down talkingabout levels is just just as
perfect, and already I know somany moms who are incredible and
(28:22):
I think it's they.
They just deserve, yeah, the,the acknowledgement for that,
and they just don't need to beperfect, because they're already
perfect for their children andtheir family as they are.
Speaker 1 (28:35):
I love that advice and thank you so much for
sharing that.
Thank you for being here todayand thank you, guys, for tuning
into today's episode, where wehelp you conquer the chaos one
day at a time.
Hey, hey, mamas, welcome back to Conquering Chaos
.
A mom's guide to self-care andsanity.
I'm your host, sydney Crowe,and today we have Anne Raju,
from Mauritius.
Anne is a virtual assistant,but she is the founder and CEO
of Virtually, an e-assistancehub that helps female
(00:20):
entrepreneurs streamline andscale their businesses through
strategic outsourcing.
Anne's goal is to guide dynamicwomen on a journey towards
mindful mastery of work and life, reshaping the way we perceive
productivity.
She also is the creative forcebehind Magic Mom Life and
Peaceful Productivity, designedto support ambitious women
(00:41):
balancing careers withmotherhood.
Anne's journey began as a careerwoman, wife and mother of two
young boys.
She felt the pressure ofmotherhood and the pursuit of
perfection, but she shifted herfocus towards what truly matters
helping mothers become focused,productive and fulfilled
without succumbing to burnout.
Her dream of an extraordinarylife led her from a tiny village
(01:02):
in East Germany to London andfinally to Mauritius, where she
now resides with her family.
Together, anne and Virtuallyare redefining success by
creating a harmonious blend ofprofessional achievement and
personal fulfillment for femaleentrepreneurs.
If you're a woman looking tostreamline and scale your
business, connect with Anne Rajuand Virtually to take your
(01:22):
entrepreneurial journey to newheights.
Welcome, anne.
Speaker 2 (01:27):
Thank you so much.
That was my dog barking.
I hope you didn't hear that toomuch.
Speaker 1 (01:32):
That's okay, it's just life right, like we've got
kids and dogs in the backgroundall the time.
Kids and dogs and all the otheranimals, yep, perfect.
So why don't you tell thelisteners who you are and what
you're all about and how youlanded in Mauritius?
Speaker 2 (01:47):
Perfect.
So why don't you tell thelisteners who you are and what
you're all about and how youlanded in Mauritius?
Yeah, so I'm originally fromGermany.
You can figure out the accent,but I've left more than half of
my life ago.
I figured just a few months ago.
I always wanted to travel, so Istudied tourism and event
management and then went toLondon, was supposed to stay
there for about a year, stayedthere for 10 years and met my
husband, who is from Mauritius.
(02:08):
So we got married, had ourfirst child there and then felt
like the fast pace of London isgreat when you're single or a
young couple, but we didn'tquite feel it was the right
place to raise a family singleor a young couple, but we didn't
quite feel it was the rightplace to raise a family.
And my, I think, my, my idea oflike seeing the world just came
(02:30):
back to me like, well, there'sworse places to live than in
Mauritius, so let's just go.
And I had said it out loud andhe quit his job and did
everything like for him.
It was like he's been waitingfor it.
So then we came here.
Everything like for him, it waslike he's been waiting for it.
So then we came here and that'snow eight years ago.
I can't believe it.
And in the meantime we hadanother child, so a second boy.
(02:51):
There is now Lucas, who is nine, and Liam, who's four and a
half, and they are growing up inthis beautiful, amazing little
speck of the world.
Like we said before, werecorded.
Sometimes it's not on the map,you sometimes even have to look
it up where what it is.
But it's just really paradiseand I'm really grateful to be
here and to have that experiencewith them, and grateful to have
(03:15):
the opportunity to now build mybusiness.
I've been working here before,but then, yeah, covid came and I
lost my job and there was nojobs to be found.
So I started working online andnever looked back and couldn't
imagine going back to a job andreally tried to find that
(03:36):
elusive balance Maybe I preferthe term harmony between living,
you know, the adult life andhaving fun for myself, but also
having a really great time withmy children and, yeah, just
seeking this extraordinary lifeand finding a way to create that
for me.
That what it means for me.
(03:57):
It probably doesn't mean thesame thing for other people, but
, yeah, I'm really happy where Iam at the moment and how things
have gone.
But I'm sure we're going to getinto the more challenging bits
of that journey because, whileit's very nice now, it hasn't
always been.
Speaker 1 (04:12):
Yeah.
So why don't you tell thelisteners a little bit about
that?
Like I was an expat when I wasyounger and it is really fun to
live abroad, but I think you'refinding it nice to be there
because you have family androots on your husband's side,
and so why don't you tell thelisteners a little bit about
that?
Like you've basically uprootedyour understanding and your
(04:33):
beliefs to go and live with yourhusband's family and nearby and
what he knows, but that's gotto be very different than how
you were raised.
Speaker 2 (04:42):
Yeah, absolutely yeah .
I come from that small villagein East Germany.
Both my parents were workingmiddle-class, just a very simple
upbringing.
But I always wanted to see theworld.
So I went to London, had lotsof fun and then met my husband,
who at the time was living withhis mother, and I eventually
(05:02):
moved in with his mother, livingwith his mother, and I
eventually moved in with hismother, which was already one of
the very culture shock, strangethings to do, because I'm that
independent, strong woman thatmy parents raised and now I live
with my mom and I still livewith her, or she lives with us,
depending on how you want to seeit.
Okay, yeah, that was definitelyan interesting step to to to
(05:24):
make, but back then it had lotsof advantages because I didn't
have to take care of most of thehouse household, which is just
not something I like, and evennow she really helps me with
lots of the cooking and thecleaning and obviously it's nice
to have the support for mychildren, even though it's not
(05:45):
always perfect.
It comes with certainchallenges, but it also is
really a part of the culturehere.
So it's a lot ofmulti-generational households
and she is a single, single,older woman and yeah, I don't.
I don't have a mom anymore.
My mom passed away a few yearsago and so it's it's got more
(06:06):
positives than negatives, butthat's definitely one aspect.
That wasn't quite what I thoughtmy life would be.
I thought just very independent, but yeah, and then obviously
when we left London, it wasquite hard because back in
London I could go back and forthto Germany every couple of
months, would see my family, andthen my dad had never traveled,
for example.
(06:26):
He had never an interest intraveling, he didn't want to
come at first.
Now he likes it, now he seeswhy we moved here.
But it was quite hard.
They didn't quite get why wewanted to move so far or why I
wanted to move so far away.
But for me, really, I saw thisopportunity, or I saw this
beautiful place where I reallyfelt I can raise my children in
(06:47):
a very safe environment.
They can be outdoors a lot andwe can just have.
We have so much sunshine andbeautiful weather and we can
have so much fun.
It's very different from how Igrew up, but it's for me it felt
like, while I was happy in mychildhood, I felt it was always
a bit, yeah, boring that's why Iwanted to leave Germany yeah,
(07:09):
you got that travel plan rightand I really love, love, the
multicultural aspect here.
Mauritius I have a friend who'scurrently visiting and she went
to the Capitoline so that I'venever seen a place that has so
many different influences,because we've got all the
cultures.
Mauritius is the only Africancountry where Hinduism is the
main, main religion, and it'sjust.
(07:31):
I love that, like I feel mychildren can have so many things
that they see and they can pickthe best things that they that
they really enjoy, and that'swhat I'm trying to do as well.
I try to keep my German cultureas much as I can.
It's not easy.
It's been over 20 odd yearsthat I have left.
I don't even remember most ofthe things, to be honest, but I
(07:51):
try to bring it as much as I can.
But then I also have all theother aspects of the different
cultures that we have here and Ifeel that gives them something
that can be really special in aworld that can be sometimes
quite narrow-minded.
If we want to go that way, yeah,no, that's okay.
Speaker 1 (08:09):
Yeah, yeah, and I absolutely love that I'm going
to have to put Mauritius on ourmap, because my husband and I
are definitely big believers ineducating our kids outside of a
classroom and so we try totravel with them as much as
possible, because we do live ina really small town in Canada
and there isn't a ton ofdiversification.
As the town is growing, we'restarting to see some
(08:30):
diversification.
They really don't have a ton ofoutside influences, and so
that's why travel has become soimportant for us.
So I share those values.
I think that's so important toallow your kids to experience or
understand so many differentthings about the world and then
make the decisions that bestsuit them right, so that we're
not building these like cookiecutter fit in a box type molds.
(08:54):
As I was raised as I was raised,it was I felt like while I was
exposed to things, I very muchhad a checklist, like I was very
much like I have to go toschool, I have to get the job,
get married, have kids, likethere was like a checklist that
I feel like I had to follow inorder to feel like I was doing
well in life, and I don't wantthat for my kids.
I want them to make their owndecisions because, while success
(09:16):
can be defined by a widevariety of measures, I think a
lot of people put financial atthe very top of that and I don't
think that that's necessarilythe highest definition of
success.
Right, you could be thehappiest person in the world and
that makes you the mostsuccessful, so I think that
that's really important andreally cool that you guys have
(09:37):
such a diversification therethat your kids are able to be
exposed to, so that's reallyamazing it's beautiful, but my
older son will tell you that itbecomes very boring.
Speaker 2 (09:47):
So now it's.
He looks outside to the world.
He obviously watches youtubeand all this stuff and
everything is like oh my god,they have this and they have
that, because quite a lot ofthings we don't necessarily have
or it's complicated.
We don't have anything likeamazon we can't like.
Shipping is incrediblyexpensive and it takes forever
(10:08):
and and so we don't have a lotof that culture of like buy the
next thing and this quick andinstant gratification, but to go
to a shop and then it's notavailable or it's a lot more
expensive than it's in otherplaces.
So he's very much like oh mygod, we need to.
I want to live in Germanybecause we recently traveled
there oh my God, america is socool.
(10:30):
So it's like he's getting thatnow that this is a very small
place.
So this is a downside.
Sometimes it can feel a littlebit yeah, just tiny and a little
bit repetitive, because we'vebeen here for a long time and
then obviously, with COVID, wedidn't travel so much.
But yeah, I think it opensconversations of like there's
there's certain things, thatthere are certain reasons why we
(10:51):
came, but also, I think whatyou said.
With the checklist I felt verymuch the same, even though I was
always maybe labeled a bit of arebellious person, even as a
young, like as a teenager, andgot in a lot of trouble.
But I think this checklist itwas so ingrained culturally that
obviously, as I grew up andthen lived in London and had my
(11:15):
stable job and met my husbandand get married and had my child
, like I definitely followedthese checklists and we bought a
car and we bought a place andand so on and so on, even though
I always thought no, no, no, Iwould never, ever do that.
I will be very maybe notfeminist, but very like I'll do
my own thing without having tofollow these things and my
husband will surely be like a50% equal partner and all of
(11:38):
that.
But then reality came and itdefinitely wasn't like that, not
that he wouldn't, wouldn't wantto do that, I was just, I think
, what happened for me in earlymotherhood I, the strong women,
came through in the sense oflike I can do it all I can do it
, you don't need to help me.
I can.
I can do all the night nights Ican do.
(11:59):
For example, I was strugglingto breastfeed.
It just didn't work out.
But I was adamant.
I was breast pumping likeexclusively breast pumping for
nine months drove me crazy atthe end but I was like, no, no,
no, he's got to have the bestthat is possible and breast is
best.
I was really putting myselfthrough a lot of that pressure
of like I can do it because it'ssupposed to be natural and I'm,
(12:24):
I would say, what they call ahigh achiever.
I always try to do my best,always be perfection, like I
said, like, yeah, like I said,perfection really got me into
burnout.
So, yeah, I think this is likeit was a lot from this checkbox.
Speaker 1 (12:37):
Yeah, yeah, we had a very similar journey because my
oldest we struggled tobreastfeed as well and it was
like I would pump and bottlefeed and we'd have to supplement
with formula because I neverhad enough supply.
And I did that until six monthsand finally I was like, okay,
well, at least she's made it tosix months and I still felt like
it wasn't enough.
So that level of perfectionismis definitely very much
(13:00):
ingrained in myself and can leadcan definitely lead to burnout.
So why don't you talk a littlebit about that, Because I know
that's a lot of what you helpwomen entrepreneurs with now is
avoiding that burnout, notnecessarily being stuck in that
perfection state.
Why don't you tell them alittle bit about that?
Speaker 2 (13:27):
was living in in the UK then and there was paid
maternity leave, so we werehaving the best time going to
all these play groups and alwaysresearching what does he need
developmentally, what is thelike, how can I foster his
development?
And and and also continuingwith my sport, for example.
I was aware I always lovedsport, so always trying to do
all the things, and he had aterrible sleep pattern as well,
(13:49):
so not sleeping enough and justkeep going, going, going,
because that's what I was usedto.
Then we moved to Mauritius andlife was beautiful.
It was a beautiful place and wegot used to new things and set
up our new home and I got a newjob and obviously then
day-to-day life kicks in and thelittle one was in nursery, so
(14:13):
everything was going smoothly.
But you know, I mean nowadayslike time passes by so quickly.
So I think it must have beenlike three years just passed by
without really looking atanything I was doing and
eventually I started to feelreally, really sad in in this
beautiful place and in this lifethat we had created and just
(14:34):
not really feeling, feeling thethick like, just not happy and
not knowing why, you know,started to have arguments with
my husband felt like the job wasjust really horrible and
couldn't really point my fingerto what it was.
Started to have health issuesbecause, again, I still wasn't
sleeping, I still was doing fartoo much, not resting, not
(14:55):
taking care of myself, really.
And then my mom passed awayvery suddenly.
She was in Mauritius onholidays and went to bed and was
supposed to wake up very earlyfor her flight back to Germany
and she never woke up and thatreally was the moment where I
was like oh, shoot, like thiscan happen, like this happens to
(15:16):
me, like nothing bad everhappened to me.
Everything is fine, like and andyeah, I, I really just broke
down.
I was like this was notsupposed to happen and what is
this?
And I felt totally lost witheverything and obviously went
through all the grief processand yeah, and that's just
realized that life is reallyshort and all the ideas and
(15:40):
plans and visions I had of myextraordinary life, I didn't.
I didn't take care of them.
I just forgot all about mebecause I was mom first of all.
Yeah, a bit of my career,because it was important to me,
and a little bit of wife, buteven that wasn't enough because
obviously it led to relationshipissues and but everything else.
(16:01):
That was Anne, who had fun andwho was very creative, enjoyed
experiencing new things, doingsports I hadn't done any sports
in forever because there was notime.
I had left all of that behindand was just mom, wife and work.
And then, with the realizationthat life can be really short,
(16:23):
it's like, well, this is notquite the life I was looking for
and did some work on myself,worked with a coach, read loads
of self-help books, listened tolots of podcasts and realized
that I think, really, reallydeep down engraved and drained,
is this perfectionism alwaysbeing perfect?
but not in a good way, becausewhat what does bring you Life
(16:47):
first of all, is not perfect.
Your loved ones pass away whenyou don't ever have an idea that
this can happen, or whatevercan happen in life.
But I just really decided thatI don't want to be perfect
anymore, I want to have a goodlife, and it can be sometimes
really challenging, but as longas I have fun.
(17:08):
I think fun and joy are reallymy key ingredients in my day to
day and all the rest doesn'tmatter so much at the end of the
day and that's really when Ichanged how I looked at things.
You needed to progress incareer.
You needed to have that nicehouse, the next TV, the next car
.
(17:28):
That is really not important tome.
For me, really important is tobe with my boys.
But also to be with myself andto prioritize myself Not always
easy, because my husband is very, very close to me, he very much
enjoys to be with me and Ienjoy to be on my own sometimes,
(17:49):
so that doesn't go down toowell all the time, but it's been
really my focus to to sharewith them as a family why it's
important to me and to make themrealize that when, when I feel
good, happy mom, happy family,they say.
and it's just so true so yeah, Ireally let go of the
perfectionism that's like youget me the way I am today.
(18:12):
I put some makeup on because Iwasn't sure if you're going to
video record, but most of thedays I'm just.
Whatever happens, it's just.
It's just me on a normal dayand living my life.
Speaker 1 (18:22):
Yeah, I rarely wear makeup myself, like sometimes
when we go out for dinner, buteven for a podcast, I don't wear
makeup.
So you got, you got a leg upthere.
Well, I think that that'sbeautiful and I am so sorry to
hear about your mom it is.
It really is eye-opening whensomething like that happens and
you really just dig deep andstart to evaluate what's really
(18:43):
important, and kudos to you forturning it into a positive and
reevaluating what was importantand really finding more harmony
in your life, because I agreewith you, harmony is a much
better word than balance.
I mean, there is I've had thisconversation before where when I
think of balance, I feel likeit's like the legal scales, like
can you picture those likelegal scales?
(19:05):
And it's like life is never,ever equal, like sometimes my
career needs more of me,sometimes my family needs more
of me, and it's this ebb andflow Like it's never just like
okay, once I've achieved balance, like yay, I'm here and it's
going to stay that way.
You have to find a way to findlike harmony and I love that
word to enjoy the ebbs and flowsand find the ways to
(19:27):
communicate with your familywhen maybe work needs a little
bit more of you.
Or maybe you need a little bitmore time to yourself, or maybe
I recently had loss in my familyas well and I knew that my kids
needed more of me.
It was just like I had to pumpthe brakes on other things that
I had going on and just be withthem and enjoy that time and
connect with them, becausethat's what was needed.
(19:47):
And so why don't you talk alittle bit more about your magic
mom life and peacefulproductivity, because I love
those names.
Magic Mum Life Like who doesn'tneed that?
I definitely.
If there's a magic wand for mumlife, like, bring that over, I
wish.
Yeah, I haven't found it yet.
So talk a little bit aboutthese programs that you have.
Speaker 2 (20:07):
Yeah, so Magic, mum.
Life really came from thatjourney, from like just feeling
very, yeah, very, very sad anddisconnected from myself to
seeking the magic, because Ioften had these comments of,
like your life looks perfect.
Well, it did on on Instagramand Pinterest, but in reality
(20:27):
not so much, even when you liveon a beautiful island and when
you seem to have it all.
I seem seemed to have it all.
I had my job, I had my family,I had a husband who's always
been involved with the children,all of that but I didn't feel
there was any magic.
I felt it was really reallyjust really shallow, in the
sense that there was no, therewas not much purpose, there was
(20:48):
not much fun, and if there wasfun, it felt often the Pinterest
baking session very much like.
Am I doing this for me and thechildren, or am I doing this
because I feel obliged to do it?
As a good mom, I should bedoing some activities with them,
and so I felt like there's thismagic spark that I used to have
(21:08):
as a young person and I hadlost it and I really worked hard
on getting it back.
And as I was working on it, Istarted sharing with other moms
and we spoke initially like thiswhole idea of like it.
Only it's only me who's goingthrough that.
And if I share it, people lookat me like, oh, she is, she's a
rubbish mom, like how can shenot love motherhood and how can
(21:32):
she be looking for more?
And what more magical is therethan having your children?
But I shared it anyways.
The more I shared, the more Ihad people coming back to me
like me too, yeah, I feel thesame.
And that's when I thought, okay, like let me share my, my
knowledge, what I gained throughworking with coaches.
In the meantime I had done acoaching certificate myself and
(21:56):
so I started sharing and workingwith moms to help them finding
their magic.
And then, a couple of years downthe line, I came back to old
patterns and basically repeatedmy perfectionism that I had let
go in motherhood.
I repeated it inentrepreneurship.
So trying to be the perfectentrepreneur, following the
(22:18):
steps doing working really hardday and night and taking care of
my children in between, andthen realizing, oh, I'm burned
out again.
Oh, no, yeah.
And that's when, peacefulproductivity.
Because that's when I againstripped it back and said, well,
what's really important, what'sthe work that I really enjoy
(22:40):
what's the work that delivers anoutcome, that that brings
results and all the other thingsthat maybe someone else is
telling you to do that oreveryone else is doing it when
we're checking on the Internetand I'm like, well, no, I don't
have time for that.
So I really stripped it backdown in terms of what are the
(23:02):
basic things that I need to do.
I don't have long to do listsanymore.
I really know what is importantto me in my business and I have
very good boundaries now aroundmy business, which before I
didn't.
So, yeah, I worked again on allof these things that were coming
(23:22):
back from that deep downperfectionism into my
entrepreneurship.
And, because I'm a VA, I alsorealized that I help most of my
clients and moms, because that'sjust who I attract and resonate
most with, I think.
But I help them to obviously bemore productive and felt like
(23:43):
that's one element to get helpin your business or at home if
you can Like.
That's why my mom and I are sohelpful.
But it's all like differentelements that I realized are
really powerful when it comes tobeing productive.
But a lot of the mindset shiftsagain letting go of the
perfectionism, letting go of anyguilt of unrealistic
(24:05):
expectations, of societypressure who says, as an
entrepreneur, you've got to workreally hard and so on.
So, and your business should bedoing like this and you should
have six figures or sevenfigures or whatever it is.
There's all these outsideinfluences.
So, yeah, I started working onthose and again, I'm sharing it
with my community and it'spretty much a very raw and
(24:30):
vulnerable share.
I wouldn't say I'm the totalexpert.
I've definitely changed thingsand I'm seeing results from it,
but I'm still learning so muchas well.
Yeah, just like in motherhood,every time when we think we
figured something, out something, a next developmental phase
comes around the corner andwe're like, oh, what's that now?
entering the teenage years nowand okay.
Speaker 1 (24:54):
Yeah, like next level .
I read somewhere that somebodywas like we should start talking
about like our age, like it'slevels, like I'm at level 39,
almost level 40.
And I feel like that just likedescribes life right, like you
feel like you get to the nextlevel and there's going to be
new challenges and new rewardsand new things, but it just
feels I don't know, there'ssomething about it that just
(25:16):
makes me feel better to say likeI'm almost at level 40, instead
of like I'm almost 40 years old.
I don't know.
It's like parenting and all thethings right, Like, oh, I'm
almost at the next level and itis true Like entrepreneurship,
parenting.
I find so many similarities inboth of those universes because
you are like, I talked to myoldest a lot.
(25:36):
I'm like, just so you know,like we're learning and growing
up together.
It's okay.
Speaker 2 (25:41):
I can say that to me to be a mom.
Speaker 1 (25:43):
And there's all these different things that as she
encounters them.
And I feel like raising kidsnow in an age where, like,
social media is a big thing andthe internet like we didn't have
those when we were growing upand so at least until later in
life, and so like trying tonavigate that with them and it
is.
It is a learning process, andso is entrepreneurship.
(26:03):
Like you think you have onelevel unlocked and you're like,
okay, everything is really good,but then maybe you need to hire
on staff, or maybe you are nowoops, maybe you are now at the
next level in terms of income,and it comes with a whole other
slew of issues.
So I think that that's really,really important and I love that
you have these now.
Are these programs that peoplecan buy and they do on their own
(26:26):
, or is it you coaching withthem one on one?
How does that work?
Speaker 2 (26:30):
Yeah, so I've got a mini course that is the peaceful
productivity, your entry yeah,let's say entry product and then
I do one on one sessions andthe magic mom life.
I had a membership, which Ipaused at the moment because
it's just been becoming a littlebit too much, because the VA
business is has been shootingthrough the roof.
(26:53):
So, but yeah, I do, I do mostlyone-on-one, simply because it's
it's it's more flexible for mein terms of managing it with
that other part of the job andmy time zone, which can be
sometimes quite challenging andall of that.
But, yeah, mostly one-on-oneand a couple of online products.
But I'm working in thebackground, always working on
(27:13):
something that in a few monthswill come out, but it just
sometimes takes longer becausethere's too many things going on
.
Speaker 1 (27:21):
Yeah, it's the life with motherhood and
entrepreneurship right.
There's always things thatyou're trying to manage and
juggle.
Where can people find you, anne?
Speaker 2 (27:31):
Yeah, so I've got two websites One is annerajucomcom,
which is mostly focused onproductivity and motherhood, and
then I have the website for theVA agency, which is virtue
fully, but also Instagram isprobably the best place there
it's an underscore and Rajuunderscore and again where I
talk about mainly productivityand motherhood wonderful.
Speaker 1 (27:54):
Well, what one piece of advice would you give to the
moms that are listening outthere?
Speaker 2 (27:59):
yeah, I think, let go of the perfectionism.
If you have that trait in you,it's just not really helpful and
I think that the level ofperfectionism a lot of us thrive
for a few levels down talkingabout levels is just just as
perfect, and already I know somany moms who are incredible and
(28:22):
I think it's they.
They just deserve, yeah, the,the acknowledgement for that,
and they just don't need to beperfect, because they're already
perfect for their children andtheir family as they are.
Speaker 1 (28:35):
I love that advice and thank you so much for
sharing that.
Thank you for being here todayand thank you, guys, for tuning
into today's episode, where wehelp you conquer the chaos one
day at a time.
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