September 14, 2025 โข 33 mins
Can an eco-friendly beauty brand compete with mainstream makeup brands? Corinne Lefebvre, founder of River Organics, shares how she built a vegan, zero-waste beauty brand that challenges big cosmetics while staying true to sustainable values.
In this episode of the Conscious Design Podcast, host Ian Peterman uncovers the journey behind River Organics, from paper packaging innovations to creating high-performance makeup without compromising the planet.
๐ง๐ต๐ถ๐ ๐ฒ๐ฝ๐ถ๐๐ผ๐ฑ๐ฒ ๐ฐ๐ผ๐๐ฒ๐ฟ๐:
Sustainable beauty & vegan cosmetics
Zero waste makeup packaging innovations
Competing with big brands like Sephora without VC funding
How to grow a profitable sustainable business
River Organics founder story
โฉ ๐๐๐บ๐ฝ ๐๐ผ ๐๐ผ๐๐ฟ ๐ณ๐ฎ๐๐ผ๐ฟ๐ถ๐๐ฒ ๐ฝ๐ฎ๐ฟ๐๐:
00:00 Intro
00:36 Founding River Organics: The Origin Story
02:04 Sustainable Packaging Innovations
04:21 Challenges and Growth in the Beauty Industry
05:22 The Importance of Sustainable Business Practices
08:32 Packaging Details and Customer Feedback
18:34 Expanding Product Lines: From Lip Balm to Mascara
24:21 Future Innovations and Customer Loyalty
31:22 Conclusion and Contact Information
๐๐ฏ๐ผ๐๐ ๐๐ผ๐ฟ๐ถ๐ป๐ป๐ฒ ๐๐ฒ๐ณ๐ฒ๐ฏ๐๐ฟ๐ฒ ๐ฎ๐ป๐ฑ ๐ฅ๐ถ๐๐ฒ๐ฟ ๐ข๐ฟ๐ด๐ฎ๐ป๐ถ๐ฐ๐
Corinne Lefebvre is the Owner and Founder of River Organics, a vegan and sustainable beauty brand. River Organics is a thoughtfully crafted zero-waste makeup line that prioritizes transparency in both ingredients and packaging, while working to reduce its environmental footprint and yours.
๐๐๐ผ๐ป๐ป๐ฒ๐ฐ๐ ๐๐ถ๐๐ต ๐๐ผ๐ฟ๐ถ๐ป๐ป๐ฒ ๐๐ฒ๐ณ๐ฒ๐ฏ๐๐ฟ๐ฒ ๐ฎ๐ป๐ฑ ๐ฅ๐ถ๐๐ฒ๐ฟ ๐ข๐ฟ๐ด๐ฎ๐ป๐ถ๐ฐ๐
Website : www.riverorganics.org
Youtube: ย ย https://www.youtube.com/@RiverOrganicsBeauty
Facebook: ย https://www.facebook.com/riverorganics/
Instagram: ย https://www.instagram.com/riverorganicsbeauty/
๐๐ฒ๐ ๐๐ต๐ฒ โ๐๐ผ๐ป๐๐ฐ๐ถ๐ผ๐๐ ๐๐ฒ๐๐ถ๐ด๐ปโ ๐ฏ๐ผ๐ผ๐ธ: https://www.amazon.com/dp/B09KNMN9BT
ย Learn more: https://www.consciousdesignhaus.com/
Want to turn visionary ideas into market-ready, sustainable products? ๐ https://www.petermanfirm.com/
๐ค ๐๐ฒ๐โ๐ ๐๐ผ๐ป๐ป๐ฒ๐ฐ๐:
ย Instagram: ย / cdesignhausย ย
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
(00:00):
I don't want just OK, it's a skin care brand, it's all your
basics and it's in sustainable packaging.
It's like I want to give them something more.
I want high performance makeup. I want high performance skin
care. I want it to compete at the same
level as normal makeup. Right.
You want to actually compete at the feature level, not just it's
(00:20):
better packed. Exactly.
And I think that's a really important message.
Hello and welcome to the Conscious Design podcast.
I'm your host, Ian Peterman, andI helped turn product ideas into
sustainable 7 figure businesses.And join me for another episode
where sustainability is innovation and business savvy.
(00:42):
Today, I'm really excited to have Crane.
She's the founder of River Organics, A sustainable vegan
beauty product brand. Welcome to the show.
Thank you so much for having me.I'm really excited to do my
first podcast ever with you. Amazing.
Well, I'm excited to be with youto do your first podcast.
So let's start with how did thisstart?
(01:04):
What got you to decide? Yeah, I want to launch a beauty
brand and make it sustainable and vegan and better than all
the other ones else. Yeah, well, definitely it comes
from wanting to produce something better than all the
other ones. But it was also just to, I
wanted to start a beauty brand. I don't know where the idea came
from, but I was living in France.
(01:26):
This was around 20/14/2013. And I started ordering
ingredients and I had seen a YouTube video about making your
lip balm and I thought it was really cool and I tried it and I
played around and it's still theoriginal recipe that we have
today. So it started from just kind of
wanting to have my own rebrand. I was working in art and art
history, so nothing to do with, well, lots to do with beauty,
(01:47):
but nothing to do with the beauty business per SE.
And I think after I'd worked in art and art history, it had been
close to 20 years, a bit, a little bit less.
I decided that I wanted to have my own sort of business and I
was moving to a smaller town in North Carolina called
Wilmington, where my husband wasliving.
(02:08):
Pretty much the day after I moved to North Carolina.
I started the brand, so I registered the company.
I was still of a green card, so I don't know, I think I had to
put it under his name like a bit, kind of just rushed.
I didn't know what to call it. And we were living by the water
and I was like, I'll call it river organics.
And it'll just be something I start.
(02:28):
And then just to get quickly through it, I started making
oils because I got really into using natural plant oils and
just like saw the massive benefits for my skin, which had
been very acne prone when I was younger.
And I saw online a packaging tube, a lip balm tube, because
we're not the first to do paper lip balms.
(02:50):
Definitely one of the earlier brands, but not the first.
And I saw a brand that had that and I said that the only thing I
want to do, I don't want to use these little plastic chapstick
tubes anymore because what is the point of trying to have a
natural brand and then your packaging is just going in a
dumpster fire. Like I still to this day believe
(03:11):
that the two don't go Better Together.
But no, no shade. So once I saw that, that was it.
And it took about a year for me to get the get the packaging
rolling out, I guess the way I wanted it to.
I had it printed and everything like that.
And it's made from post consumerrecycled packaging and it's FSC
(03:34):
certified and it's printed out soy A.
So yeah, that's like from the aid to that.
But there was a lot in between. But basically I just once I saw
that paper packaging and that there were sustainable
solutions, I just went fully into that and there was no going
back. Amazing.
Well, I think it, it's, I love the fact that you just jumped
(03:57):
into it. Yeah, a lot of people, they sit
there and they think and they think, and I think, and then
there's like 10 years later, like, oh, maybe I'll find it.
And you're just like, hey, I decided one day I'm just going
to do it and then jumps. Things just.
Retreat into it's going to be sustainable.
It's going to have these these things I wanted to have and they
made it happen. I don't think ever, especially
(04:23):
before I talk when I was young, but yeah, I know.
I think that obviously the naivety is what drove the
business to being sustainable without question because there
was just like I said, no going back.
But it also helped differentiate, differentiate us
from the beginning. At the same time, my not
(04:46):
thinking and naivety caused the made the business grow really,
really, really slowly, but at a pace that I can keep up with
personally while I learned how to do business because I, like I
said, I come from an art historybackground.
And even though I worked in auction houses and art galleries
which have a business side to them, obviously it's completely
different than manufacturing andproducing good for the retail
(05:07):
market. So you know, as much as I would
have, I used to think the company was going to grow super
quickly and all this stuff. I'm so glad that it's taken nine
years because I'm still learningeveryday and it's grown at A at
a growable pace for me. That's good.
I there's sometimes, you know, growing too quickly kills a
(05:31):
business. So there is that there is that
balance point too. You got to grow enough to be
successful, pay the bills and beable to grow, but not growing so
quickly that it becomes. Well.
Appreciatingly painful from whatI'm.
Doing, yeah, I feel very passionate about this because I
definitely do not ever want to go down the route of getting
(05:52):
funding and growth at all costs and being not profitable.
And I know that that's not really how it works.
But at the same time, if I'm a sustainable brand, then my
business should be sustainable and the growth should be
sustainable too. I don't know.
They just all go hand in hand together to me.
But you know, I haven't had a huge wads of cash thrown at me
(06:14):
either, but I've definitely had like, you know, people trying to
pique my interest with regards to distribution and the types of
distribution that we just don't have the cash flow for.
So you want to stretch yourself,you want to be everything for
everybody. But once you in, this is like
for my business and for like once you realize like your lane
is just like blinders and it's just like do your thing and
(06:36):
everything is just noise and doesn't even touch you after
that. Right.
Well, I think that's a, it's funny.
I think you're the third or fourth person to use the stay in
your lane. Yeah, I don't like to stay in
your lane. That's actually kind of not the
nicest when I think about it, because it's like, I wouldn't, I
didn't stay in my lane. But I just mean like, pick what
(06:58):
you want to do and like, you're good.
Like it's your thing, right? Well, the focus part, the focus
part, yeah, yeah, I don't want to.
I don't want big fat pivot the rare.
Meanders but you. Can do, you can do whatever you
want to do. You can change your mind 50
times. I change my mind 50 times a day.
But I definitely think that, yeah, sustainability goes along
(07:20):
with financial model as well because what is the point of
flooding the market with a product that actually you don't
know if it if it can grow on itsown.
Just just reading a lot about brands that are going into
Sephora really quickly and what it takes to get to that point
and the money they have to invest as a brand in terms of
(07:41):
the training. It just, yeah, it doesn't seem
very, it doesn't seem like a model that I can understand
personally, but I'm not a business, like I said
personally, I'm sorry. That's OK, I do.
One of the things is there's so many kinds, so many ways to
write, build a successful brand and that people hyper focus on
(08:01):
the oh, you're talking about go get big investors, put in
millions and millions of dollarsand try to get into Sephora,
something like that instantly. And that is a path you could do
that people that are brands who are doing.
That, but is that the? Only way.
Yeah, yeah, there's I was just thinking about that today.
(08:23):
I was thinking how we don't giveenough credit to all the small
businesses that are just like supporting their families with
their businesses and like that incredible or for like I met
someone recently who sold their families business, it would have
been 90 years open and I'm like that success like that's cool
because you're doing what you love and you're supporting your
family. So it goes.
(08:44):
It goes really well together, but.
Yeah, if you're happy. Yeah, yeah.
You don't have to do something else.
It doesn't have to be rushed forsure.
Yeah. Well, let's talk about the
package you mentioned super briefly.
So it is post consumer paper. Yeah.
And you said soy ink? Yeah, they use soy ink to print.
So when I first did my first round of packaging, I had this
(09:07):
like river grass idea in mind and I really like the way gold
stamp look on it. But then because people call
post the packaging, it was just wasn't like a good idea to have
this kind of metal embossed piece.
Frank. Frank So like I've learned to
have better ideas with regards to that too.
But, and that's from our customer feedback simply.
(09:27):
So we, yeah, we got in touch with the company.
The company, well, all packagingis made in China.
So like I don't hide that there's no paper tubes made in
the USA, even if it's called like Paper tube Company, USA,
Canada, whatever, just. Buying it from China and and
bringing. They're just buying, yeah,
they're just, they just have it in stock in the US like that's
(09:48):
pretty much how it all works. But all of our manufacturing and
sell and pouring is in is in theUS in North Carolina.
So yeah. So we have been working with the
same company since day one, thankfully.
So what's great about that is that they do really small
batches and they were OK to do 500 at a time to start.
(10:09):
So made some big commitments with that nine years ago.
They're still in business. I'm still in business.
The partnership's great and theydo a lot of design work for me.
And basically it's gotten betterand better.
They've gotten better certifications, better
packaging, better quality. And I think for me they, because
all these companies have invested in this paper
(10:30):
packaging, they really demystified the myth that
packaging in plastic is somehow better for the product, somehow
conserves the product longer. I wanted to ask about.
Yeah, so all of those things aremakes that true.
None of it is particularly true.You remove a cap from the paper
(10:51):
packaging you and we do have like a food grade wax seal as
well. So there's like another layer to
the packaging, but that's compostable as well.
But so that helps you know things.
Yeah, that helps things. But like all of our, how do you
say the duration of our products, the expiry is what I'm
looking for. They're all the same as a normal
(11:12):
makeup ran even if they're in paper packaging.
And then OK, to go a step further than this, the massive
difference with paper and plastic, besides the fact that
it's compostable in a renewable source.
And like I said, FSC certified all those three benefits, but
you also get like usually twice,two to three times the amount of
packaging because you're removing that heavy base of
(11:37):
plastic, the heavy, the big calf, the thick wall, the pen,
that the push up mechanism, the spring.
You know, if you take a part, a piece of a lipstick or a
chapstick or an eyeliner, especially a pen one, they have
like nothing. They just there's just all
packaging and there's like this,which products?
So that was a huge learning curve.
(12:00):
I don't know if I'm going off ona tangent, but a lot of people
when they first saw the product were like, it's so tiny, it's so
tiny. I want to refund.
It's so small. And I'm like, you're getting
twice the amount, like look at the grams.
But we don't, we're not used to looking at the amount, the
amount of actual products. So that was no.
Not on those kinds of things. No, I don't.
I mean, look, yeah. I worked in in makeup stuff, but
(12:23):
a four and yeah, it's insanely the mascara when you pour out.
Oh. My God.
This is it's a thimble. We have a thimble here and it's
in this heavy. All makeup as a thimble and it
should all be measured as a thimble from now on.
The new measurement system. Forget metric.
(12:43):
Yeah, whole new one. Just thin and I think like,
yeah, like half a thimble for aneyeliner if that so right.
So paper packaging is just amazing.
Like it's just I just think it looks cool.
I think it works just like a normal plastic packaging.
It's it's smaller, it's easier to travel with, it's lighter.
(13:04):
Yeah. It just has so many benefits
that are that are overlooked. And with your lip balm, do you?
Because the other thing I have survived and talking to people
about packaging stuff, how do you get it out?
Do you just push it through? Most of our packaging you push
up and then you just apply and it you get used to it.
If you push too high, you have to like kind of tap it or push
(13:26):
it down with your lips. But yeah, it's just an easy,
lightweight paper tube and they're all it.
Is so much smaller. Yeah, it does look a lot
smaller. Can you imagine?
It's probably lighter for you toship too.
Yes, it's well that's one of thegreat things with regards to
shipping is that it does make our shipping a lot less
expensive and easier Yeah, and it doesn't like I had someone
(13:48):
ask me the other day, oh, don't ship because we're in the desert
and it's gonna it's 110ยฐ and andthey don't melt like the melting
point, it's like 120. So it's they're and like these,
these were made in North Carolina.
So it's like it's hot. So my melt, I live in Phoenix.
Yeah, occasionally in my Melt. In my I don't know what your
records make. Fresh records, I guarantee you
(14:10):
the one in the plastic. My daughter, she she has some
I'm. Sure, every girl.
Has it melts still? The plastic does not save it
from melting, no. It doesn't.
We have this like plastic illusion of hygiene, I think is
the only thing or like cleanliness.
(14:31):
And I think because of the obsession a little bit, I'm just
going to say like North Americanobsession with clean and hygiene
and cleaning products and that like that kind of as if plastic
is clean and it's not it's and Ithink people are realizing that
I don't have to educate people really on how to use the paper
packaging anymore. People know how to use it.
(14:53):
It's good. And I think it's like the whole
wave of like people know how to make their own cleaning
products. People realize that Tupperware
is like terrible and MIT. You're not supposed to
microwave. It, yeah, don't microwave it.
Don't microwave your beauty product.
So yeah, I think the beauty industry is really kind of
behind with regards to some of the packaging innovations that
(15:16):
are available to it and are not being used.
And there's another brand that does something similar to me.
They're called axiology. Like I'm totally fine shouting
out other brands. And one of the owner, the owners
was saying the other day that people say, oh, why isn't it
less expensive? It's just in paper packaging and
it's like plastic is probably cheaper, which is scary a
(15:40):
plastic packaging because it's also from the oil and gas
industry and it's kind of like aleftover product.
It it's way less expensive to actually buy plastic packaging
and then it lasts forever. So cuz paper packaging is not as
widely used. That makes sense, right?
Hey, it's your host Ian. I'm really glad you're enjoying
this episode. I absolutely love highlighting
(16:02):
amazing brands and founders for the awesome things they are
doing. I've helped hundreds of
entrepreneurs and businesses like yours turn their boldest
ideas into powerful, purpose driven brands.
So if you're serious about building a brand people love,
like our guests and clients too,and one that you're proud to
stand behind, I invite you to dive a bit deeper with our book,
Conscious Design. Inside you'll discover the exact
(16:24):
framework and steps we use to help entrepreneurs like you turn
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Brand that stands out, tracks loyal customers and drive
sustainable growth with social and environmental responsibility
woven into its DNA. Grab your copy today.
You can find it on our website consciousdesignhouse.com or just
(16:45):
find the link below in the show notes.
Enjoy the rest of the episode and don't forget to like,
subscribe and share all that. The interesting thing that one
of the other things that caught my attention when you were
talking is it when you you say when you started, you found a
company who is already making it.
(17:05):
You didn't have to go invent it.You were able to actually find
somebody making it. Yeah, I, I don't want to say I
ripped it off, but I saw a paper, a lip balm in paper
packaging and I was like, oh, I have.
That's the only way I'm going tosucceed or stand out as a tiny
business. But also like, that's the only
way I'm going to continue makingproducts and putting them into
(17:26):
onto the planet for people to use.
I just clicked for me. It was like there was no going
back. But I don't remember the name of
that company anymore. It was on Pinterest and I can
see it, but I can still can't remember the name of them.
That's OK. Yeah.
But I'm, I know it. I just like right now at the top
of my head, I come from Canada, so I grew up in Victoria.
I'm from Montreal originally, but I grew up in Victoria and
(17:47):
they made I'll never forget. I was like 20 and they made like
throwing paper out illegal. Like you had to put it like if
they found paper in your garbage, you'd get a fine.
And this was 30 years ago, less than they're like 27 years ago.
So like when I moved to North Carolina and my building didn't
even have recycling, I was like,this isn't familiar to me
(18:09):
because not to say that Canada'sthat much more progressive, but
for that where I came from, it was like.
The trash system is. It's OK to say it.
Yeah, it was pretty. I mean, everything was being,
but not that recycling is an answer because it's definitely
not. It's a confusing and complicated
world that I don't want to touch, but.
(18:31):
And I'm a bit more pro composting and not buying stuff
rather than recycling, but yeah,so.
So then I was like, well, it's paper, it could be recycled and
this and that. It's perfect.
Like it just kind of all clickedto me where it came from and
what practices were and what I thought people would want to
see. And I also was living in a small
town where people supported that, and that's how the
(18:52):
business grew as well. I love that I would love to dive
into rate you. You see, you started with a lip
balm as your as your first, but you obviously you do a lot more
than just lip balm now. Yeah, how?
Has that journey been? Again, it was a non thinking
journey. So I was like, well we make lip
balms, let's make highlighters. I had never used highlighter
(19:15):
makeup in my life. I don't know why I thought that
should be the next product, but it was kind of a trend in
20/17/2018 when I came out with the highlighters and I thought
it was a cool product. It was kind of a yeah, it was
one of those products. I thought it was kind of
trending, but it was also a great product that you can
demonstrate outside and it just hits the light and it just
(19:35):
seemed like a really great idea.So I launched highlighters and
then I launched blush sticks. And when I started my company,
the first two years I was doing outside market.
So I was demonstrating all of this makeup out and then our
customers would go home and order thankfully and continue to
be customers to this day. But so, yeah, that was some of
the trio that I started then I thought.
(20:00):
Well, let's take it further to face makeup.
Now this is where things could really go wrong for a business
is because when you get into color, Cos this is where this is
where I didn't, this is where I really needed a business
background. But when you get into color
cosmetics like concealer, you have to make a lot of colors.
So like, I don't know how many colors, for example, Venti
(20:21):
beauty, they have like the most one of the most different colors
for the skin tones. So let's say they have like 50.
I don't know how many they have,and it can be corrected on that,
but I was trying to make 10 at the start and have them even
light to dark, like just across the board.
But the problem is that's a massive investment.
You're suddenly making a productthat has 10 skews that you
(20:44):
haven't tried, right? Whereas a lip balm color, you
can go in one at a time and it'sa different color and it's a
different type of product. But yeah, so color cosmetics
were a big risk, but it was a big payoff because it got us
much more noticed. And that's when we really
started to take off with regardsto wholesale and a lot of 0
waste stores started popping up and we got some really great
(21:07):
client from the concealer launch.
So I would say that because I kind of just kept going, well,
what could we disrupt in terms of makeup beyond the lip balm?
Because a lot of brands now do this type of lip balm because I
just kept looking for that disruption in terms of like,
yeah, what can we do next? I think that that was a huge
payoff. And then in two years later, I
(21:28):
did mascara, which has been really hard because it's a solid
mascara, which is known as a cake mascara.
You dip your, your eyes, stuck your brush into your spoolie
brush. And, and it was also kind of the
next one that took us to the next level.
And now we have a eye eye products for brows and products
for eye for lashes. So I'm always kind of looking
(21:52):
for that really hard to make product because it'll be a
challenge, but it'll also be a massive pay off and get us
noticed and is a really cool challenge generally.
Because how how can we make mascaras super sustainable?
How can we make skin care, beardcare, hair care?
(22:13):
Like what is the I'm always looking for that key to the
packaging in terms of sustainability.
And one of the reasons we haven't really launched more
skin care. We used to do bottles, which is
a nightmare, unfortunately. I love oil, but the reason I
haven't launched it is because I'm not entirely convinced I
want to do the stick or the paper pot for skin care.
(22:33):
And I'm trying to figure out what would be the next next best
thing or the best thing actually.
Yeah, when you get into oils, oils are a whole other thing.
Yeah. And then here and it's different
exploration. And so we've really positioned
ourselves as just a makeup brand.
(22:54):
But I have such a huge desire tomake skin care because I think
it's such an exciting thing as well.
But but I'm very happy again to stay in my just to stick to what
I'm doing and to keep coming outwith better colors and innovate
in the makeup sphere for now. Well, I think it's it's I like
that you are you're not just jumping in and going, oh, we
(23:17):
want to do oils so bad that we are just going to use a plastic
bottle. You're also.
Well, that's it, I'm. Going to do it if it's good.
Yeah. And I also think that there's a
next level of innovation that's coming in skin care and makeup
that that I think it's not thereyet.
And I think a lot of brands are kind of just repeating the same
(23:38):
hyaluronic niacetamine, like kind of same formulas.
And I'm, I also find formulationreally fun and I love inventing
products along with our manufacturer and, and I want
something exciting. I don't want just, OK, it's a
skin care brand. It's all your basics and it's in
sustainable packaging. It's like, no, because you're
really just trying to get the customer to just move over,
(24:00):
which is great. But I want to give them
something more. I want high performance makeup.
I want high performance skin care.
I want it to compete at the samelevel as normal makeup.
Ray, you want to actually compete at the the feature
level, not just it's better package.
It's exactly, and I think that'sa really important message.
(24:22):
So yeah, thanks for summarizing.That's amazing.
I'm excited to see where you come up.
Amazing. Well, looking for a little bit.
Obviously you're here trying to tackle that side of things.
What else are you looking at? Like get inside the makeup world
(24:44):
that you're in You you're mostlybeen able to work in more
solids, kind of wax, correct side of things.
Yeah. So I think what I've noticed in
terms of how our customers use the product is they're looking
for two in one solution. So what I'm starting to think
(25:07):
more about is what are those twoin one products?
Because rather than just come out with, OK, now we're doing
eyeshadow and you could only useit for the eyes.
It's like, well, actually our bluster stick works really good
on the eyes. So let's make that more of a
2IN1 product. Let's promote that.
And our lip balm lip stains lookgreat on the cheeks.
So a lot of customers just use one.
(25:29):
They really like a 2IN1 type of solution.
So and then let's, you know, innovate more and add a skin
care element because every time we make, we create a product, we
try and we choose the oils we choose.
We choose based on where the makeup product is being used on
the base and how it might be beneficial in that regard.
How for example, coconut oil will protect the lifts from the
(25:50):
sun, from the weather, how grapeseed oil will protect the
skin, especially in the fine outline area and Shea butter,
same thing high in vitamin A. So it's fantastic for the areas
that we're applying it to. So it's more, yeah, it's not
necessarily that we're going to change from the solid, but we're
going to get a little bit more creamy, a little bit more
(26:13):
texture and, and add that sort of skin care element to the
makeup, but also make it more ofa 2IN1 hybrid product.
But I also don't want to throw everything at the client because
our clients are very loyal to the colors, to the OG colors
that we started with. And whenever I deviate from
that, it's, it doesn't go down well.
So I'm trying to to stay very, this is a like kind of cheesy
(26:39):
word, but I would try to stay like to think of our company as
like a legacy Brad, because I'm like, OK, we're nine years old.
That's not nothing. That's not a toddler, that's
impressive. It's a preteen.
So so I'm like, they've been with us for this journey for
this long. We're going to continue with our
classics, you know, colors and then we'll try and innovate and
(27:00):
bring them along to a new journey.
But we don't want to shove, you know, too many things down their
throats at the same time as welland keep it really simple and
not give in to too many trends. Because even on social media, I
get, you know, really tempted togo down that, that path.
But the truth then is the the founder and owner is not a Gen.
(27:21):
Z. I'm like a millennial Gen.
Xer. So I'm not gonna do all the fun
things on social media. I'm gonna keep it really
classic. So I know I went on a on a huge
tangent there, but I I do feel like everything works together
as a whole in terms of the brandand the sustainability of it.
Well, and I think it's a huge thing to to be aware of your
(27:44):
customers, right? And when you're doing this,
you're testing it. And when they say we don't like
it. They'll push back.
It's important to listen. Yeah, it's important to listen.
And sometimes I get people saying, I was so excited it was
paper, but I prefer glass. And I'm like, I'm sorry.
I wish that they could switch everything to glass and it was
(28:06):
an easy solution, but we're not quite there yet.
But I don't know, I might dabblein all kinds of different things
down the line, but you really have to be established before
you can experiment too much as well, so.
Yeah. And you know, there's somebody
to think about is like, I like the you, you see, you know,
legacy brand. That's actually where I use a
lot when thinking about branding.
(28:26):
Yeah. Because you're also, you're at
nine years old, great as a brand.
You're old enough now as a brandsomebody could have started
using as a teenager. That's true.
Now they're an adult, like thinking you, they could have
been using your brother through high school and college now.
Yeah. And when you start to think
about that, like, well, that means like in another 10 years,
(28:49):
it could be them teaching their kids or giving their ready start
to think about that kind of thing.
Then it's super important when you're like, oh, I want to be
loyal to my customers. It's a long game.
It's not a short. It's a long game.
And I, I like, I think it's reassuring to think like that
because I'm like, it's not growth at all costs.
(29:11):
It's not Yeah, every whim. Yeah.
We want to give your customers what they want.
I love making people happy that they like and the products and
buy them on repeat. It's like, it's insane to me.
I love it. So cool.
Well, it's good. That means you're actually
providing something they want, which should be the actual goal,
yeah. It's stuff I want.
(29:32):
I just came back. I was just travelling for two
weeks and I had the lightest makeup bag in the world and I
was like, this is so great, likeeveryone needs to do that.
It's just switch to river. Yet it just makes life so much
easier. Just for travel reason like
people buy many makeup things just for travel like this is
already small like. They're already perfect travel
(29:55):
size partners. Yeah, I'm I'm tempted sometimes
to make them a little bit biggerjust because of that feedback.
But at the same time, then you're gonna have a bulky
product that doesn't fit in a nice little pencil case like the
way I carry them around so. Yeah, I, I think the smaller is
OK. Yeah, it's not especially it's
the same amount of product, right?
(30:16):
Yeah, more. Since you pour it out.
Double triple, yeah it's crazy, especially if you do like a
powder compact blush as opposed to a solid blush.
It's like 3 times like the amount highlighter sticks, even
if it's a highlighter stick and a plastic stick and it's our
highlighter stick, it's usually around double so.
(30:36):
Double. Yeah, that's that's good.
For a lot less price as well because we don't have like a lot
of middle men. I work a lot directly with the
companies that we sell with and then we sell direct to
consumers. So I try to keep the price point
in the teens to mid 20s. Like we don't even have a
product that's $25. Our products are all under like
(30:57):
2323 to 1299, thirteen to 23. So yeah, because I'm just like,
I see products going up and up and up.
I see the tariffs affecting people and I'm just like, no,
we're not changing. It's not, you know, I don't care
about inflation or anything because I, I know what I think
is affordable and I think that that's affordable ish still.
(31:18):
Right. If you have the margins to
provide the customer service that you want to be able to
provide, handle any return, you know, if you can handle all of
them and still turn a profit, then it works.
And if you have happy loyal customers, it's really working
because that's what people spenda lot of money trying to trying
to have that amazing. Well this has been a pleasure
(31:41):
talking to you and for everyone who wants to learn more, find
you guys online. Anything like that?
Where is the best place for someone to reach out or buy your
products? Our website is the best because
you're going to get all the latest updates.
I have a little blog on there called River Labs that I just
started to update people. What's in the pipeline of things
(32:04):
coming? And actually I was just going to
update it today about amazing color.
So big teaser that's coming out soon.
So River organics.org, it's the best place, unfortunately,
idonthavethe.com, but that was an early decision, accidental.
And then our Instagram is River Organics beauty, same as our
(32:25):
TikTok. And if you hear from Corinne,
you're hearing from me because they pretty much do most of the
customer service still, which I enjoyed.
Great, amazing, amazing. And for everyone listening or
watching, we'll have links in the description.
So much I appreciate the shout out and my first foray into
(32:46):
podcasting. Thank you.
Absolutely. Well, it's been a pleasure.
Thanks so much for being on. And that wraps up another
episode of the Conscious Design Podcast.
If today's episode inspired you to bring your product idea to
life and turn it into a sustainable 7 figure business,
visit petermanfirm.com or click the link below.
Your ideas have the power to change the world and we're here
(33:09):
to help make that happen. Thank you for joining us, and
I'll see you on the next episode.
I don't want just OK, it's a skin care brand, it's all your
basics and it's in sustainable packaging.
It's like I want to give them something more.
I want high performance makeup. I want high performance skin
care. I want it to compete at the same
level as normal makeup. Right.
You want to actually compete at the feature level, not just it's
(00:20):
better packed. Exactly.
And I think that's a really important message.
Hello and welcome to the Conscious Design podcast.
I'm your host, Ian Peterman, andI helped turn product ideas into
sustainable 7 figure businesses.And join me for another episode
where sustainability is innovation and business savvy.
(00:42):
Today, I'm really excited to have Crane.
She's the founder of River Organics, A sustainable vegan
beauty product brand. Welcome to the show.
Thank you so much for having me.I'm really excited to do my
first podcast ever with you. Amazing.
Well, I'm excited to be with youto do your first podcast.
So let's start with how did thisstart?
(01:04):
What got you to decide? Yeah, I want to launch a beauty
brand and make it sustainable and vegan and better than all
the other ones else. Yeah, well, definitely it comes
from wanting to produce something better than all the
other ones. But it was also just to, I
wanted to start a beauty brand. I don't know where the idea came
from, but I was living in France.
(01:26):
This was around 20/14/2013. And I started ordering
ingredients and I had seen a YouTube video about making your
lip balm and I thought it was really cool and I tried it and I
played around and it's still theoriginal recipe that we have
today. So it started from just kind of
wanting to have my own rebrand. I was working in art and art
history, so nothing to do with, well, lots to do with beauty,
(01:47):
but nothing to do with the beauty business per SE.
And I think after I'd worked in art and art history, it had been
close to 20 years, a bit, a little bit less.
I decided that I wanted to have my own sort of business and I
was moving to a smaller town in North Carolina called
Wilmington, where my husband wasliving.
(02:08):
Pretty much the day after I moved to North Carolina.
I started the brand, so I registered the company.
I was still of a green card, so I don't know, I think I had to
put it under his name like a bit, kind of just rushed.
I didn't know what to call it. And we were living by the water
and I was like, I'll call it river organics.
And it'll just be something I start.
(02:28):
And then just to get quickly through it, I started making
oils because I got really into using natural plant oils and
just like saw the massive benefits for my skin, which had
been very acne prone when I was younger.
And I saw online a packaging tube, a lip balm tube, because
we're not the first to do paper lip balms.
(02:50):
Definitely one of the earlier brands, but not the first.
And I saw a brand that had that and I said that the only thing I
want to do, I don't want to use these little plastic chapstick
tubes anymore because what is the point of trying to have a
natural brand and then your packaging is just going in a
dumpster fire. Like I still to this day believe
(03:11):
that the two don't go Better Together.
But no, no shade. So once I saw that, that was it.
And it took about a year for me to get the get the packaging
rolling out, I guess the way I wanted it to.
I had it printed and everything like that.
And it's made from post consumerrecycled packaging and it's FSC
(03:34):
certified and it's printed out soy A.
So yeah, that's like from the aid to that.
But there was a lot in between. But basically I just once I saw
that paper packaging and that there were sustainable
solutions, I just went fully into that and there was no going
back. Amazing.
Well, I think it, it's, I love the fact that you just jumped
(03:57):
into it. Yeah, a lot of people, they sit
there and they think and they think, and I think, and then
there's like 10 years later, like, oh, maybe I'll find it.
And you're just like, hey, I decided one day I'm just going
to do it and then jumps. Things just.
Retreat into it's going to be sustainable.
It's going to have these these things I wanted to have and they
made it happen. I don't think ever, especially
(04:23):
before I talk when I was young, but yeah, I know.
I think that obviously the naivety is what drove the
business to being sustainable without question because there
was just like I said, no going back.
But it also helped differentiate, differentiate us
from the beginning. At the same time, my not
(04:46):
thinking and naivety caused the made the business grow really,
really, really slowly, but at a pace that I can keep up with
personally while I learned how to do business because I, like I
said, I come from an art historybackground.
And even though I worked in auction houses and art galleries
which have a business side to them, obviously it's completely
different than manufacturing andproducing good for the retail
(05:07):
market. So you know, as much as I would
have, I used to think the company was going to grow super
quickly and all this stuff. I'm so glad that it's taken nine
years because I'm still learningeveryday and it's grown at A at
a growable pace for me. That's good.
I there's sometimes, you know, growing too quickly kills a
(05:31):
business. So there is that there is that
balance point too. You got to grow enough to be
successful, pay the bills and beable to grow, but not growing so
quickly that it becomes. Well.
Appreciatingly painful from whatI'm.
Doing, yeah, I feel very passionate about this because I
definitely do not ever want to go down the route of getting
(05:52):
funding and growth at all costs and being not profitable.
And I know that that's not really how it works.
But at the same time, if I'm a sustainable brand, then my
business should be sustainable and the growth should be
sustainable too. I don't know.
They just all go hand in hand together to me.
But you know, I haven't had a huge wads of cash thrown at me
(06:14):
either, but I've definitely had like, you know, people trying to
pique my interest with regards to distribution and the types of
distribution that we just don't have the cash flow for.
So you want to stretch yourself,you want to be everything for
everybody. But once you in, this is like
for my business and for like once you realize like your lane
is just like blinders and it's just like do your thing and
(06:36):
everything is just noise and doesn't even touch you after
that. Right.
Well, I think that's a, it's funny.
I think you're the third or fourth person to use the stay in
your lane. Yeah, I don't like to stay in
your lane. That's actually kind of not the
nicest when I think about it, because it's like, I wouldn't, I
didn't stay in my lane. But I just mean like, pick what
(06:58):
you want to do and like, you're good.
Like it's your thing, right? Well, the focus part, the focus
part, yeah, yeah, I don't want to.
I don't want big fat pivot the rare.
Meanders but you. Can do, you can do whatever you
want to do. You can change your mind 50
times. I change my mind 50 times a day.
But I definitely think that, yeah, sustainability goes along
(07:20):
with financial model as well because what is the point of
flooding the market with a product that actually you don't
know if it if it can grow on itsown.
Just just reading a lot about brands that are going into
Sephora really quickly and what it takes to get to that point
and the money they have to invest as a brand in terms of
(07:41):
the training. It just, yeah, it doesn't seem
very, it doesn't seem like a model that I can understand
personally, but I'm not a business, like I said
personally, I'm sorry. That's OK, I do.
One of the things is there's so many kinds, so many ways to
write, build a successful brand and that people hyper focus on
(08:01):
the oh, you're talking about go get big investors, put in
millions and millions of dollarsand try to get into Sephora,
something like that instantly. And that is a path you could do
that people that are brands who are doing.
That, but is that the? Only way.
Yeah, yeah, there's I was just thinking about that today.
(08:23):
I was thinking how we don't giveenough credit to all the small
businesses that are just like supporting their families with
their businesses and like that incredible or for like I met
someone recently who sold their families business, it would have
been 90 years open and I'm like that success like that's cool
because you're doing what you love and you're supporting your
family. So it goes.
(08:44):
It goes really well together, but.
Yeah, if you're happy. Yeah, yeah.
You don't have to do something else.
It doesn't have to be rushed forsure.
Yeah. Well, let's talk about the
package you mentioned super briefly.
So it is post consumer paper. Yeah.
And you said soy ink? Yeah, they use soy ink to print.
So when I first did my first round of packaging, I had this
(09:07):
like river grass idea in mind and I really like the way gold
stamp look on it. But then because people call
post the packaging, it was just wasn't like a good idea to have
this kind of metal embossed piece.
Frank. Frank So like I've learned to
have better ideas with regards to that too.
But, and that's from our customer feedback simply.
(09:27):
So we, yeah, we got in touch with the company.
The company, well, all packagingis made in China.
So like I don't hide that there's no paper tubes made in
the USA, even if it's called like Paper tube Company, USA,
Canada, whatever, just. Buying it from China and and
bringing. They're just buying, yeah,
they're just, they just have it in stock in the US like that's
(09:48):
pretty much how it all works. But all of our manufacturing and
sell and pouring is in is in theUS in North Carolina.
So yeah. So we have been working with the
same company since day one, thankfully.
So what's great about that is that they do really small
batches and they were OK to do 500 at a time to start.
(10:09):
So made some big commitments with that nine years ago.
They're still in business. I'm still in business.
The partnership's great and theydo a lot of design work for me.
And basically it's gotten betterand better.
They've gotten better certifications, better
packaging, better quality. And I think for me they, because
all these companies have invested in this paper
(10:30):
packaging, they really demystified the myth that
packaging in plastic is somehow better for the product, somehow
conserves the product longer. I wanted to ask about.
Yeah, so all of those things aremakes that true.
None of it is particularly true.You remove a cap from the paper
(10:51):
packaging you and we do have like a food grade wax seal as
well. So there's like another layer to
the packaging, but that's compostable as well.
But so that helps you know things.
Yeah, that helps things. But like all of our, how do you
say the duration of our products, the expiry is what I'm
looking for. They're all the same as a normal
(11:12):
makeup ran even if they're in paper packaging.
And then OK, to go a step further than this, the massive
difference with paper and plastic, besides the fact that
it's compostable in a renewable source.
And like I said, FSC certified all those three benefits, but
you also get like usually twice,two to three times the amount of
packaging because you're removing that heavy base of
(11:37):
plastic, the heavy, the big calf, the thick wall, the pen,
that the push up mechanism, the spring.
You know, if you take a part, a piece of a lipstick or a
chapstick or an eyeliner, especially a pen one, they have
like nothing. They just there's just all
packaging and there's like this,which products?
So that was a huge learning curve.
(12:00):
I don't know if I'm going off ona tangent, but a lot of people
when they first saw the product were like, it's so tiny, it's so
tiny. I want to refund.
It's so small. And I'm like, you're getting
twice the amount, like look at the grams.
But we don't, we're not used to looking at the amount, the
amount of actual products. So that was no.
Not on those kinds of things. No, I don't.
I mean, look, yeah. I worked in in makeup stuff, but
(12:23):
a four and yeah, it's insanely the mascara when you pour out.
Oh. My God.
This is it's a thimble. We have a thimble here and it's
in this heavy. All makeup as a thimble and it
should all be measured as a thimble from now on.
The new measurement system. Forget metric.
(12:43):
Yeah, whole new one. Just thin and I think like,
yeah, like half a thimble for aneyeliner if that so right.
So paper packaging is just amazing.
Like it's just I just think it looks cool.
I think it works just like a normal plastic packaging.
It's it's smaller, it's easier to travel with, it's lighter.
(13:04):
Yeah. It just has so many benefits
that are that are overlooked. And with your lip balm, do you?
Because the other thing I have survived and talking to people
about packaging stuff, how do you get it out?
Do you just push it through? Most of our packaging you push
up and then you just apply and it you get used to it.
If you push too high, you have to like kind of tap it or push
(13:26):
it down with your lips. But yeah, it's just an easy,
lightweight paper tube and they're all it.
Is so much smaller. Yeah, it does look a lot
smaller. Can you imagine?
It's probably lighter for you toship too.
Yes, it's well that's one of thegreat things with regards to
shipping is that it does make our shipping a lot less
expensive and easier Yeah, and it doesn't like I had someone
(13:48):
ask me the other day, oh, don't ship because we're in the desert
and it's gonna it's 110ยฐ and andthey don't melt like the melting
point, it's like 120. So it's they're and like these,
these were made in North Carolina.
So it's like it's hot. So my melt, I live in Phoenix.
Yeah, occasionally in my Melt. In my I don't know what your
records make. Fresh records, I guarantee you
(14:10):
the one in the plastic. My daughter, she she has some
I'm. Sure, every girl.
Has it melts still? The plastic does not save it
from melting, no. It doesn't.
We have this like plastic illusion of hygiene, I think is
the only thing or like cleanliness.
(14:31):
And I think because of the obsession a little bit, I'm just
going to say like North Americanobsession with clean and hygiene
and cleaning products and that like that kind of as if plastic
is clean and it's not it's and Ithink people are realizing that
I don't have to educate people really on how to use the paper
packaging anymore. People know how to use it.
(14:53):
It's good. And I think it's like the whole
wave of like people know how to make their own cleaning
products. People realize that Tupperware
is like terrible and MIT. You're not supposed to
microwave. It, yeah, don't microwave it.
Don't microwave your beauty product.
So yeah, I think the beauty industry is really kind of
behind with regards to some of the packaging innovations that
(15:16):
are available to it and are not being used.
And there's another brand that does something similar to me.
They're called axiology. Like I'm totally fine shouting
out other brands. And one of the owner, the owners
was saying the other day that people say, oh, why isn't it
less expensive? It's just in paper packaging and
it's like plastic is probably cheaper, which is scary a
(15:40):
plastic packaging because it's also from the oil and gas
industry and it's kind of like aleftover product.
It it's way less expensive to actually buy plastic packaging
and then it lasts forever. So cuz paper packaging is not as
widely used. That makes sense, right?
Hey, it's your host Ian. I'm really glad you're enjoying
this episode. I absolutely love highlighting
(16:02):
amazing brands and founders for the awesome things they are
doing. I've helped hundreds of
entrepreneurs and businesses like yours turn their boldest
ideas into powerful, purpose driven brands.
So if you're serious about building a brand people love,
like our guests and clients too,and one that you're proud to
stand behind, I invite you to dive a bit deeper with our book,
Conscious Design. Inside you'll discover the exact
(16:24):
framework and steps we use to help entrepreneurs like you turn
purpose into a powerful, impact driven brand.
Brand that stands out, tracks loyal customers and drive
sustainable growth with social and environmental responsibility
woven into its DNA. Grab your copy today.
You can find it on our website consciousdesignhouse.com or just
(16:45):
find the link below in the show notes.
Enjoy the rest of the episode and don't forget to like,
subscribe and share all that. The interesting thing that one
of the other things that caught my attention when you were
talking is it when you you say when you started, you found a
company who is already making it.
(17:05):
You didn't have to go invent it.You were able to actually find
somebody making it. Yeah, I, I don't want to say I
ripped it off, but I saw a paper, a lip balm in paper
packaging and I was like, oh, I have.
That's the only way I'm going tosucceed or stand out as a tiny
business. But also like, that's the only
way I'm going to continue makingproducts and putting them into
(17:26):
onto the planet for people to use.
I just clicked for me. It was like there was no going
back. But I don't remember the name of
that company anymore. It was on Pinterest and I can
see it, but I can still can't remember the name of them.
That's OK. Yeah.
But I'm, I know it. I just like right now at the top
of my head, I come from Canada, so I grew up in Victoria.
I'm from Montreal originally, but I grew up in Victoria and
(17:47):
they made I'll never forget. I was like 20 and they made like
throwing paper out illegal. Like you had to put it like if
they found paper in your garbage, you'd get a fine.
And this was 30 years ago, less than they're like 27 years ago.
So like when I moved to North Carolina and my building didn't
even have recycling, I was like,this isn't familiar to me
(18:09):
because not to say that Canada'sthat much more progressive, but
for that where I came from, it was like.
The trash system is. It's OK to say it.
Yeah, it was pretty. I mean, everything was being,
but not that recycling is an answer because it's definitely
not. It's a confusing and complicated
world that I don't want to touch, but.
(18:31):
And I'm a bit more pro composting and not buying stuff
rather than recycling, but yeah,so.
So then I was like, well, it's paper, it could be recycled and
this and that. It's perfect.
Like it just kind of all clickedto me where it came from and
what practices were and what I thought people would want to
see. And I also was living in a small
town where people supported that, and that's how the
(18:52):
business grew as well. I love that I would love to dive
into rate you. You see, you started with a lip
balm as your as your first, but you obviously you do a lot more
than just lip balm now. Yeah, how?
Has that journey been? Again, it was a non thinking
journey. So I was like, well we make lip
balms, let's make highlighters. I had never used highlighter
(19:15):
makeup in my life. I don't know why I thought that
should be the next product, but it was kind of a trend in
20/17/2018 when I came out with the highlighters and I thought
it was a cool product. It was kind of a yeah, it was
one of those products. I thought it was kind of
trending, but it was also a great product that you can
demonstrate outside and it just hits the light and it just
(19:35):
seemed like a really great idea.So I launched highlighters and
then I launched blush sticks. And when I started my company,
the first two years I was doing outside market.
So I was demonstrating all of this makeup out and then our
customers would go home and order thankfully and continue to
be customers to this day. But so, yeah, that was some of
the trio that I started then I thought.
(20:00):
Well, let's take it further to face makeup.
Now this is where things could really go wrong for a business
is because when you get into color, Cos this is where this is
where I didn't, this is where I really needed a business
background. But when you get into color
cosmetics like concealer, you have to make a lot of colors.
So like, I don't know how many colors, for example, Venti
(20:21):
beauty, they have like the most one of the most different colors
for the skin tones. So let's say they have like 50.
I don't know how many they have,and it can be corrected on that,
but I was trying to make 10 at the start and have them even
light to dark, like just across the board.
But the problem is that's a massive investment.
You're suddenly making a productthat has 10 skews that you
(20:44):
haven't tried, right? Whereas a lip balm color, you
can go in one at a time and it'sa different color and it's a
different type of product. But yeah, so color cosmetics
were a big risk, but it was a big payoff because it got us
much more noticed. And that's when we really
started to take off with regardsto wholesale and a lot of 0
waste stores started popping up and we got some really great
(21:07):
client from the concealer launch.
So I would say that because I kind of just kept going, well,
what could we disrupt in terms of makeup beyond the lip balm?
Because a lot of brands now do this type of lip balm because I
just kept looking for that disruption in terms of like,
yeah, what can we do next? I think that that was a huge
payoff. And then in two years later, I
(21:28):
did mascara, which has been really hard because it's a solid
mascara, which is known as a cake mascara.
You dip your, your eyes, stuck your brush into your spoolie
brush. And, and it was also kind of the
next one that took us to the next level.
And now we have a eye eye products for brows and products
for eye for lashes. So I'm always kind of looking
(21:52):
for that really hard to make product because it'll be a
challenge, but it'll also be a massive pay off and get us
noticed and is a really cool challenge generally.
Because how how can we make mascaras super sustainable?
How can we make skin care, beardcare, hair care?
(22:13):
Like what is the I'm always looking for that key to the
packaging in terms of sustainability.
And one of the reasons we haven't really launched more
skin care. We used to do bottles, which is
a nightmare, unfortunately. I love oil, but the reason I
haven't launched it is because I'm not entirely convinced I
want to do the stick or the paper pot for skin care.
(22:33):
And I'm trying to figure out what would be the next next best
thing or the best thing actually.
Yeah, when you get into oils, oils are a whole other thing.
Yeah. And then here and it's different
exploration. And so we've really positioned
ourselves as just a makeup brand.
(22:54):
But I have such a huge desire tomake skin care because I think
it's such an exciting thing as well.
But but I'm very happy again to stay in my just to stick to what
I'm doing and to keep coming outwith better colors and innovate
in the makeup sphere for now. Well, I think it's it's I like
that you are you're not just jumping in and going, oh, we
(23:17):
want to do oils so bad that we are just going to use a plastic
bottle. You're also.
Well, that's it, I'm. Going to do it if it's good.
Yeah. And I also think that there's a
next level of innovation that's coming in skin care and makeup
that that I think it's not thereyet.
And I think a lot of brands are kind of just repeating the same
(23:38):
hyaluronic niacetamine, like kind of same formulas.
And I'm, I also find formulationreally fun and I love inventing
products along with our manufacturer and, and I want
something exciting. I don't want just, OK, it's a
skin care brand. It's all your basics and it's in
sustainable packaging. It's like, no, because you're
really just trying to get the customer to just move over,
(24:00):
which is great. But I want to give them
something more. I want high performance makeup.
I want high performance skin care.
I want it to compete at the samelevel as normal makeup.
Ray, you want to actually compete at the the feature
level, not just it's better package.
It's exactly, and I think that'sa really important message.
(24:22):
So yeah, thanks for summarizing.That's amazing.
I'm excited to see where you come up.
Amazing. Well, looking for a little bit.
Obviously you're here trying to tackle that side of things.
What else are you looking at? Like get inside the makeup world
(24:44):
that you're in You you're mostlybeen able to work in more
solids, kind of wax, correct side of things.
Yeah. So I think what I've noticed in
terms of how our customers use the product is they're looking
for two in one solution. So what I'm starting to think
(25:07):
more about is what are those twoin one products?
Because rather than just come out with, OK, now we're doing
eyeshadow and you could only useit for the eyes.
It's like, well, actually our bluster stick works really good
on the eyes. So let's make that more of a
2IN1 product. Let's promote that.
And our lip balm lip stains lookgreat on the cheeks.
So a lot of customers just use one.
(25:29):
They really like a 2IN1 type of solution.
So and then let's, you know, innovate more and add a skin
care element because every time we make, we create a product, we
try and we choose the oils we choose.
We choose based on where the makeup product is being used on
the base and how it might be beneficial in that regard.
How for example, coconut oil will protect the lifts from the
(25:50):
sun, from the weather, how grapeseed oil will protect the
skin, especially in the fine outline area and Shea butter,
same thing high in vitamin A. So it's fantastic for the areas
that we're applying it to. So it's more, yeah, it's not
necessarily that we're going to change from the solid, but we're
going to get a little bit more creamy, a little bit more
(26:13):
texture and, and add that sort of skin care element to the
makeup, but also make it more ofa 2IN1 hybrid product.
But I also don't want to throw everything at the client because
our clients are very loyal to the colors, to the OG colors
that we started with. And whenever I deviate from
that, it's, it doesn't go down well.
So I'm trying to to stay very, this is a like kind of cheesy
(26:39):
word, but I would try to stay like to think of our company as
like a legacy Brad, because I'm like, OK, we're nine years old.
That's not nothing. That's not a toddler, that's
impressive. It's a preteen.
So so I'm like, they've been with us for this journey for
this long. We're going to continue with our
classics, you know, colors and then we'll try and innovate and
(27:00):
bring them along to a new journey.
But we don't want to shove, you know, too many things down their
throats at the same time as welland keep it really simple and
not give in to too many trends. Because even on social media, I
get, you know, really tempted togo down that, that path.
But the truth then is the the founder and owner is not a Gen.
(27:21):
Z. I'm like a millennial Gen.
Xer. So I'm not gonna do all the fun
things on social media. I'm gonna keep it really
classic. So I know I went on a on a huge
tangent there, but I I do feel like everything works together
as a whole in terms of the brandand the sustainability of it.
Well, and I think it's a huge thing to to be aware of your
(27:44):
customers, right? And when you're doing this,
you're testing it. And when they say we don't like
it. They'll push back.
It's important to listen. Yeah, it's important to listen.
And sometimes I get people saying, I was so excited it was
paper, but I prefer glass. And I'm like, I'm sorry.
I wish that they could switch everything to glass and it was
(28:06):
an easy solution, but we're not quite there yet.
But I don't know, I might dabblein all kinds of different things
down the line, but you really have to be established before
you can experiment too much as well, so.
Yeah. And you know, there's somebody
to think about is like, I like the you, you see, you know,
legacy brand. That's actually where I use a
lot when thinking about branding.
(28:26):
Yeah. Because you're also, you're at
nine years old, great as a brand.
You're old enough now as a brandsomebody could have started
using as a teenager. That's true.
Now they're an adult, like thinking you, they could have
been using your brother through high school and college now.
Yeah. And when you start to think
about that, like, well, that means like in another 10 years,
(28:49):
it could be them teaching their kids or giving their ready start
to think about that kind of thing.
Then it's super important when you're like, oh, I want to be
loyal to my customers. It's a long game.
It's not a short. It's a long game.
And I, I like, I think it's reassuring to think like that
because I'm like, it's not growth at all costs.
(29:11):
It's not Yeah, every whim. Yeah.
We want to give your customers what they want.
I love making people happy that they like and the products and
buy them on repeat. It's like, it's insane to me.
I love it. So cool.
Well, it's good. That means you're actually
providing something they want, which should be the actual goal,
yeah. It's stuff I want.
(29:32):
I just came back. I was just travelling for two
weeks and I had the lightest makeup bag in the world and I
was like, this is so great, likeeveryone needs to do that.
It's just switch to river. Yet it just makes life so much
easier. Just for travel reason like
people buy many makeup things just for travel like this is
already small like. They're already perfect travel
(29:55):
size partners. Yeah, I'm I'm tempted sometimes
to make them a little bit biggerjust because of that feedback.
But at the same time, then you're gonna have a bulky
product that doesn't fit in a nice little pencil case like the
way I carry them around so. Yeah, I, I think the smaller is
OK. Yeah, it's not especially it's
the same amount of product, right?
(30:16):
Yeah, more. Since you pour it out.
Double triple, yeah it's crazy, especially if you do like a
powder compact blush as opposed to a solid blush.
It's like 3 times like the amount highlighter sticks, even
if it's a highlighter stick and a plastic stick and it's our
highlighter stick, it's usually around double so.
(30:36):
Double. Yeah, that's that's good.
For a lot less price as well because we don't have like a lot
of middle men. I work a lot directly with the
companies that we sell with and then we sell direct to
consumers. So I try to keep the price point
in the teens to mid 20s. Like we don't even have a
product that's $25. Our products are all under like
(30:57):
2323 to 1299, thirteen to 23. So yeah, because I'm just like,
I see products going up and up and up.
I see the tariffs affecting people and I'm just like, no,
we're not changing. It's not, you know, I don't care
about inflation or anything because I, I know what I think
is affordable and I think that that's affordable ish still.
(31:18):
Right. If you have the margins to
provide the customer service that you want to be able to
provide, handle any return, you know, if you can handle all of
them and still turn a profit, then it works.
And if you have happy loyal customers, it's really working
because that's what people spenda lot of money trying to trying
to have that amazing. Well this has been a pleasure
(31:41):
talking to you and for everyone who wants to learn more, find
you guys online. Anything like that?
Where is the best place for someone to reach out or buy your
products? Our website is the best because
you're going to get all the latest updates.
I have a little blog on there called River Labs that I just
started to update people. What's in the pipeline of things
(32:04):
coming? And actually I was just going to
update it today about amazing color.
So big teaser that's coming out soon.
So River organics.org, it's the best place, unfortunately,
idonthavethe.com, but that was an early decision, accidental.
And then our Instagram is River Organics beauty, same as our
(32:25):
TikTok. And if you hear from Corinne,
you're hearing from me because they pretty much do most of the
customer service still, which I enjoyed.
Great, amazing, amazing. And for everyone listening or
watching, we'll have links in the description.
So much I appreciate the shout out and my first foray into
(32:46):
podcasting. Thank you.
Absolutely. Well, it's been a pleasure.
Thanks so much for being on. And that wraps up another
episode of the Conscious Design Podcast.
If today's episode inspired you to bring your product idea to
life and turn it into a sustainable 7 figure business,
visit petermanfirm.com or click the link below.
Your ideas have the power to change the world and we're here
(33:09):
to help make that happen. Thank you for joining us, and
I'll see you on the next episode.
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