Get ready for a rollercoaster ride as we delve into the gritty history of catch wrestling’s origin and inevitable transformation into modern MMA. This episode promises a whirlwind of fascinating insights and unexpected twists with UFC legend Jon Fitch.
What if the world of MMA is more corrupt than we ever imagined? Shady promoters, fixed fights, and the ongoing struggle for fighters’ rights take center stage as we dissect the impact of corruption in combat sports. We spotlight the landmark lawsuit aimed at reforming MMA practices and the critical role of the Ali Expansion Act in protecting fighters' rights. Jon Fitch joins us to share his hard-fought battles with promoter influence, offering a candid look at his career and his continued advocacy through his shows, "John Fitch Knows Nothing" and "Loose Change."
We explore the rise of government distrust, the disillusionment with the financial system, and the tumultuous world of cryptocurrency. From UFO sightings and ghost encounters to the provocative idea of controlled opposition, we tackle it all. We even entertain the notion of interdimensional beings influencing our world and challenge listeners to think critically. Connect with us on social media, share your thoughts, and support the show for more mind-bending discussions that challenge the status quo!
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
"$awbuck" Mike (00:01):
The Nephilim sightings are going to start
soon.
"Headhunter" Higg (00:04):
Consciousness has been enslaved.
Jon Fitch (00:06):
Your consciousness does not need your physical body
to survive.
"$awbuck" Mike (00:11):
It's the thing that's necessary.
It has to be there.
It's the coding that projectsthis world we currently live in.
I want you to read the Bible.
Jon Fitch (00:19):
We got reptilians just outside of our frequency
zone.
"$awbuck" Mike (00:22):
Six dimensional beings, the ancient builder race
.
Ideas are the highest form ofintelligence, and that leads you
to truth and clarity.
The Nephilim sightings aregoing to stall soon.
Conspiracy show.
It's obvious.
The aliens are god-fearing,insanely huge, or just one
planet.
They would have needed aminimum of six feet of lead
shielding in order to getthrough the 25,000 mile thick of
(00:43):
nl and radiation belt.
This is real.
They really did fake the moon.
The world is infinitely olderthan that, and I mean the world
with human beings in it, skulland bones is like one of the
villains in the legion of doom,they said.
"Headhunter" Higgins (00:57):
I'll let you read the bible the biblical
flood, the tartaria mud floodconspiracy and chill the
nephilim sightings are going tostart soon.
"$awbuck" Mike (01:05):
The bulldog ball .
I don't want you to read thebible.
"Headhunter" Higgins (01:08):
There's magnets in the basketballs.
There was a political party, athird party called the
anti-masonic party, at a pointin uh in the united states, the
global pandemic treatyconspiracy and chill podcast I
like the long hair mustache.
Look too, gotta say yeah, Ijust.
Jon Fitch (01:28):
I spent like three years.
I just keep growing it.
I don't know what to do with it.
"Headhunter" Higgins (01:32):
Girlfriend likes it, so looks like you
could go straight into some prowrestling.
Any plans on that?
"$awbuck" Mike (01:37):
no, he's not a pro wrestling fan yeah, I'm not.
Jon Fitch (01:41):
I was just listening to uh to you rant about pro
wrestling how you uh watch theiron claw, but yeah, not your
cup of tea origins of catchwrestling and they make some
(02:02):
claims about, uh, one of thekick, uh, the catch wrestling
legends, training maeda, who,who later went to the gracies.
So they're kind of claimingthat catcher gracies actually
just stole a catch wrestling,they just put a gi on and they
renamed all this stuff.
Did you do catch wrestling too?
I I've never officially donecatch wrestling but, you know,
(02:27):
as a fighter, like if it hurtsand it works, of course you know
there's plenty of things that,uh, I I've come up with or I do
or use that aren't necessarilythings that are traditionally
taught in in jiu jitsu.
Right, yeah, but um, yeah,catch is a very like top
dominant controlling type style,but it was also built off of
(02:51):
professionals traveling andfighting hobos take on all
comers.
So, like you know, the uh, theboston crab could work on on
somebody who's never doneanything in Dana's life, you
know that is hilarious.
"Headhunter" Higgins (03:07):
That's actually what I was in
California for.
I've been competing lately incatch wrestling and I was with
Eric Paulson and Josh Burnett itwas Josh Burnett's tournament
and a bunch of dudes fromEngland and actually a lot of
the people that were there andlike competing and training were
pro wrestlers primarily andthey're trying to like get more
into the real roots of thegrappling, I guess no, it's
(03:28):
super interesting, um, thehistory of it and I get it.
Jon Fitch (03:32):
um, because you know these guys, it'd be like me,
like I'm gonna go make somemoney, so I'm gonna go on the
train and I'm gonna travel, andevery stop I'm gonna, me and my
friends are gonna challenge thebest guys in the land and
they're going to place bets.
And I can't just go out thereand smash everybody, because
then nobody else will want tochallenge me and nobody will
(03:53):
place any bets.
So they would go and they wouldjust play with these guys oh,
you've got my arm, oh, andthey'd get out of it and then
they'd put them in a lock andthen they'd give something up
and they out of it, and thenthey put them in a lock and then
they give something up andthey'd make it look like a close
fight and then, when it wastime to like get out of there,
then they would win real quickand take the money and go.
So I mean, it makes sense, Iget it.
(04:13):
There's a carny grifter vibe toit and there's a realness to it
.
But when you I don't know, whenyou start fixing things that
are sold as a legitimatesporting competition, that
starts bothering me.
That's right.
I feel like it deflates.
(04:33):
It deflates real fightcompetition.
"Headhunter" Higgins (04:34):
it lets it lets too many bad elements, too
many bad promoters and shadypromoters get in there and pull
strings 100, I agree, and withthe first version of them doing
that would been like, yeah,you're beating everybody's ass
and then you have your buddywho's with you is also a
wrestler in the crowd and youhave someone bet on him and he
steps up and pretends to be arandom nobody and then he beats
your ass like save some traveler.
Jon Fitch (04:54):
And then, yeah, you get a close, make a good fight,
you put on a good show, and thenyou guys meet up out of town
and have beers yeah, you gottathink how awesome that would
have been back then to be one ofthose guys though that's a way
to make a living right you knowall about shady promoters, right
, oh man it's, uh, it's in theirblood, it's in their
"Headhunter" Higgins (05:13):
blood.
It's just the intermediary totake the money away from the
fighters.
You know, instead of just goingright to the actual competitor,
there's a middleman.
Then well, the promoter.
Jon Fitch (05:23):
The promoter is supposed to work for the athlete
.
That's how it's supposed towork, right?
Because your job as the athleteis to fight.
Your job is to fight and win.
That's it.
It's their job to make sureeverybody knows who the hell you
are.
It's their job to be loud andand promote you and and do the
advertising for you.
That way you can focus ontraining.
(05:43):
You shouldn't have to be likeyelling in a megaphone on a
soapbox telling people aboutyour fight yourself, which is
exactly what they expect you todo today in mma.
Right?
Just look at, uh, thedifference.
Like I follow, like mayweatherboxing and you know you can
follow the ufc and like I justfeel like Mayweather does a
(06:06):
better job of pushing their guysout there than the UFC does.
It feels more like UFC and MMApromotions use the fighters'
names to build their own brandrather than actually cheering on
the athlete and hyping theathlete up.
"$awbuck" Mike (06:24):
I was just telling uh tom here before we
went live.
Uh, I think the first time Ispoke with you, john, was like
in 2016, and you had alreadybeen involved in the lawsuit for
a few years, and I just thinkit's so cool, man, that here we
are in 2024 and it's finallyresolved, and not many people
(06:45):
thought you would, you wouldcome out on top and you did and
you persevered, and I just thinkthat's fucking awesome, dude
yeah, it was.
Jon Fitch (06:53):
Uh, you know it's.
It's important that peopleremember it's only one part of a
three-pronged attempt to likechange the way that mma has done
in this industry.
Uh, one is one is the lawsuit,because that's how other sports
uh achieved their free agencyand, uh um, their collective
(07:14):
bargaining agreements eitherthrough lawsuits or through, uh,
threat of lawsuits.
Right, that that's how.
That's how all the other bigsports became the big sports and
started making the money.
The athletes started making themoney they're making because
the government stepped in.
They had to sue or had tothreaten the lawsuit.
So we still have to encouragefighters to join the Fighters
(07:37):
Association, the MMAFA.
Be active in that.
Be active in that.
If we can get everybody to signup and pledge allegiance to the
Fighters Association, we canstart having votes and making
decisions on what things we wantto do and how we want to run
things.
We need to realize that we'reonly going to take care of each
other because everybody else ispimping us out, like the
(07:58):
managers, the coaches, thepromoters themselves.
They will stay in business.
We only have a short time tocompete and make money, you know
, uh.
And then we also uh need to getguys together to help push and
promote the ali act.
We need the ali expansion act.
We need to get the same uhlegal protections that boxers
(08:19):
get from promoters.
You know, there's no reason whywe shouldn't have those same
protections that they get.
Do you still follow the sportlike?
Do you still watch fights?
I, I do my show john fish knowsnothing um, every sunday night
at seven on the left coast, andthat's uh where I watch whatever
violence I can on the weekend,a lot of bare knuckles events,
(08:43):
um, I did watch karate combatnot long ago.
Sometimes the boxing events wehad we had canelo and lomachenko
fighting um relatively recently.
So you know I'm always watchingsomething and then I talk about
it on the show.
And I started doing another uhshow on wednesday nights called
loose change, and it's just acontinuation of my other podcast
(09:03):
show because sometimes duringthe week other things happen and
pop up worth talking about.
So I'll talk about whateverweird thing popped up in the
middle of the week.
"$awbuck" Mike (09:13):
Loose Change.
Do you remember thatdocumentary about the Twin
Towers?
It was called Loose Change,wasn't it?
That's what it reminded me of.
"Headhunter" Higgins (09:21):
That's immediately what came to mind
too.
I was going to say, though,though, john, that you're the
perfect guest for this show,because, like me being a
grappler and a martial artistand mike being mma journalist,
and we've had that crossoverwith a lot of fighters and the
conspiracy aspect, but, like,your career kind of has a
conspiracy to it, like evenbefore the the whole lawsuit,
(09:41):
because you're, you know, on agreat win streak, you're a top
contender for the longest timethe career pivot of what
happened to me like from uh.
Jon Fitch (09:51):
I basically had two, two careers.
I had pre uh contract disputeand post contract dispute.
Right, pre-contact dispute wasuh, all my fights leading up to
gsp, the gsp fight and a shorttime after that, right.
And then we had the video gamedispute and then I went from the
(10:11):
next greatest thing you know Iwas 8-0 going into the fight
with GSP.
So I was 8-1 with four finishes.
Everybody thought I was, youknow, great and loved watching
me fight.
I headlined stuff and whatever.
And then contract dispute andthen, oh, he's not very good,
he's boring, he's notentertaining, nobody wants to
(10:33):
watch him fight.
They stopped even interviewingme after fights just because
they know If you want to buildnotoriety and a base of fans,
they need to hear you talk, theyneed to see you after the fight
, they need to get a humanelement of you after the fight.
So if you're just rushed offthe cage after your fight I
noticed they've done it to a fewguys too where they don't, they
(10:56):
don't interview them after theafter the fight.
That's, that's not an accident,it has nothing to do with
timing.
Or?
Oh, it's not an accident, ithas nothing to do with timing or
oh, we don't have enough timeto fit all the fights in
Bullshit.
They have enough time.
They have enough time to do two, three minute interview.
Talk to somebody.
They choose not to take thattime because they don't want
(11:17):
people to get to know thatfighter.
They don't want that guy to beidentifiable.
"Headhunter" Higgins (11:24):
They don't want anybody to start liking
that guy because of something hesays 100% and you think it
arose from, you said, the videogame contract or some dispute
over your likeness.
Jon Fitch (11:32):
Essentially I said no to them, and I said no to them
a few times because there wasvideo game agreement, the
merchandising agreement that wasshit too.
And then them trying to make mefight Kostchek for a non-title
uh fight.
So I was just like no, like Inever looked at them as like oh
my god, you're the boss, you'reso amazing.
(11:54):
Like I thank you for theopportunities, but you're
they're just another promoter.
Like who?
Who gives a shit.
Like there'll be otherpromotions.
There's always other promotions.
There are other places to goand make money that were just as
big or bigger back then.
So like I was like who is thisguy?
Like who are you?
I never understood the peoplewho you know.
(12:15):
Kind of get on their knees forthese people, right?
You're the show.
Like that's why they use yourname on the marquee.
You're the show, not thepromoter.
The promoter really isn't thatmaterial.
It doesn't matter as much.
Most people will never rememberwho the promoters are.
"Headhunter" Higgins (12:33):
They were just upset.
You didn't want to play ballthe way they did and fighting
against the system.
Jon Fitch (12:37):
Yep, I said no to them and that's bad, because
then other people see, oh, he'stelling us, no, that's not okay,
we got to deal with this.
That whole thing, that wholevideo game agreement thing, that
like they didn't contact me,they contacted the press, they
canceled my contract because Iwouldn't sign.
And then they went to the pressand said, yeah, we cut John
(13:00):
Fitch and these guys because, no, we cut John Fitch because he's
not, he doesn't make me inKasha, because they're not
signing the video gamingagreement.
They put that on the press Like, why, why wouldn't you call us?
Why wouldn't you like work withour managers?
Why wasn't there communicationin any way?
They just went straight to thepress.
So I woke up to my newsfeed likeI lost my job.
(13:22):
I'm like what the hell is goingon?
You know, I think that's not anaccident, that's strategic.
They know what they're doing.
And, sure enough, after that,like you know, I I was going to
leave and, uh, go to strikeforce.
I was finally fighting forstrike force at the time.
Like I said, there was placesto go.
They got mad at that because Iwas demonstrating that I could
(13:43):
say no to them and continue tofight and make money, so they
threatened to cut all of myteammates everybody from aka
there's whoa everybody from akaand everybody who was
represented by my management wasseeking entertainment, so that
means they're.
You know they would have cutcane if you lost that.
There wouldn't have been a dc,there wouldn't have been a rock
hold like that.
(14:03):
That was what they were tellingme.
So I was like, fine, right, Idon't want to be a problem, I'll
just, I'll just sign the sign,the.
There wouldn't have been a DC,there wouldn't have been a
Rockhold Like that was what theywere telling me.
So I was like, fine, right, Idon't want to be a problem, I'll
just sign the stupid video gamething.
Whatever, I'm going to win mynext fights and win the title,
and then you're going to kiss myass.
That was my mindset.
But yeah, like that was a big,strong attack.
(14:27):
And everybody who saw that,like all the signatures poured
in after that little event, thatlittle stunt.
"Headhunter" Higgins (14:30):
It worked 100 dude.
It's got to be so frustratingto, I mean, do everything right,
be a top contender, dominateall your fights, essentially
like, put all your hard work touse and what you think is you
know a legitimate sport, atleast as far as other sports go.
You have pretty much fullcontrol over your destiny.
You trained your.
You know a legitimate sport, atleast as far as other sports go
.
You have pretty much fullcontrol over your destiny.
You trained your best.
You get to control the outcome.
It's an individual sport andthen to still get you know
(14:53):
blacklisted and not get thetitle shot or have it, you know,
taken from you.
Are you familiar with BilalMuhammad?
Jon Fitch (15:00):
That's what I was going to say oh yeah, they're
giving him that treatment rightnow.
"Headhunter" Higgins (15:04):
A hundred percent.
That's one of my guys, one ofmy friends and training partners
this past weekend he's gettingheat from winning his fight,
like, come on, he's fighting agiant striker.
Jon Fitch (15:17):
You're mad at him because he used MMA, he used
mixed martial arts.
He used a mixed martial arts togain an advantage.
I don't understand these people.
Uh, one fc, one championships,one championships has small
glove muay thai, small glove,muay thai, bare knuckles exists.
Like, why are you guys wastingyour time watching mma?
(15:40):
I don't get it at all.
It's like I'm gonna start goingto tennis matches and be like
boo use your feet, kick the ball, you suck.
Make it make sense to me.
I've never understood that.
I've never understood that.
You know I don't particularlylike most of this sport, but I
want to still watch it for thetiny piece that I like and then
complain about all the stuffthat doesn't fit that tiny
(16:02):
aspect that I like.
"Headhunter" Higgins (16:05):
That is a funny analogy with the tennis
one.
But you're, you're right.
They could watch something elseif they don't like the
grappling.
"$awbuck" Mike (16:10):
That is the point of mixed martial arts it's
to a point now where there'ssometimes when a guy will have a
takedown and side control andthey'll separate them and stand
them up.
Jon Fitch (16:21):
But it's like he worked so hard to get that
position and because he he mightnot have moved in 10 seconds,
you're gonna, it's because fanpressure, you know so a lot of
people are so clueless about, um, the skill set of fighters
today they think the fighterstoday are so advanced over guys
20 years ago, 30 years ago nobullshit, right.
(16:41):
I've been watching fights fromthe 90s, okay, the nineties.
I was watching this like aclash of champions nine or
something like that.
It's from 1990.
They filmed it in SouthernCalifornia.
Right, it was four mantournament.
They had one 55, 70 something,85 heavyweight and it was no
close fist to the to the face,right, but they could kick to
(17:03):
the face, they could leg kicktakedowns, full submissions on
the ground, just no punching tothe face.
You could hit to the body, youcould elbow to the body, you
could headbutt to the body, justno punches to the face.
These guys were skilled.
They were throwing big kicks,body kicks, kicks to the legs,
hitting takedowns, workingsubmissions.
They knew some ground hittingtakedowns, working submissions.
(17:26):
They knew some ground.
There's been a false narrativetold to people about the ufc
origin and the great season, allthis, all this stuff.
Right, there were lots of guyswho could have probably won that
first ufc tournament easily,but they were not allowed to
compete yep there wasn't even areal wrestler in the first few
there was.
I can't remember who the guy was.
There was a guy who was on theOlympic ladder as a wrestler, a
(17:49):
judokan, and he had trainedboxing for some years.
That was somebody that theywere trying to get into those
early UFC's and they were justlike would not because he was
too good, too advanced.
There's a lot of I don't know.
I've been surfing just a lot ofI don't know.
There, there I've been, I'vebeen surfing just a lot of old,
old fights.
Gracie fighting championships in2007 right, they did in.
(18:12):
Like columbus ohio.
Like matt brown, jack arraythere's a bunch of fights on
that part.
It was.
It was pretty great and theskills of the guys fighting were
pretty damn good.
Like I wouldn't.
I wouldn't say that, uh, youraverage ufc fighter would, would
have beaten any of those guysin that, in that, uh, in that
(18:33):
card.
You know, like solid people,good, stand up.
I actually kind of think thefighters a lot of them have
gotten watered down with theirskill sets because they're
starting to become jacks of alltrades.
Right, they know a little bitof everything, but they have
never specialized and dominatedin any one thing, any one field.
(18:54):
Sorry, I got a little fuckingbugs in here.
"Headhunter" Higgins (18:57):
Look like a crazy guy well, you're on the
crazy guy podcast, that's forsure.
Jon Fitch (19:04):
So yeah, I mean, I don't know.
Just I think there's somethinga little bit missing.
And then I think there's a lotof that attitude of just getting
clout chasing and just beingpopular, like I'm just going to,
people are going to know me,I'm going to get knocked out
(19:25):
real bad.
And people are going to know me, me like there's not really a
desire to actually fight, theyjust want to be seen.
I don't know, because youremember, man, back 90s, early
2000s, guys are traveling allover, sometimes out of pocket,
to fight for 100 bucks, 500bucks.
Yeah, I've driven hundreds ofmiles to fight for 250.
(19:45):
How many guys are still doingthat today?
"Headhunter" Higgins (19:48):
There's a lot more heart and passion in
like I don't know what to callit.
I guess the zufa era like theheight of your career kind of
time, like when there wasn'tfights every single weekend and
the pay-per-views was like amuch more big deal.
And they were, they werestacked and, like you said, the
guys were more specialized intheir styles.
It made for interestingmatchups.
I I don't think I'm just beingnostalgic by saying that era was
(20:10):
way more entertaining andawesome.
It really just was.
I miss it.
It's the same yeah, yeah, yeah.
"$awbuck" Mike (20:17):
I like watching highlights and, and instantly,
if I see sponsors on shorts, Iknow it's, I know it's going to
be, you know, a good fight, andthere's no way that you can tell
me that boss rutin, uh, frankshamrock, guy, metzger dan
severin, you can't tell me thoseguys weren't fucking talented
Yep.
Jon Fitch (20:36):
Yep, marco Huas.
I want to go back.
I'm going to try to find it,but I'm going to go back and
watch the Pride LightHeavyweight Grand Prix.
Oh yeah, remember that.
Hell yeah, if any of you guys,listeners back home, have never
seen that dude, go do that.
Go watch.
It was just a bunch of killers.
"Headhunter" Higgins (20:58):
Every fight was crazy literally and to
kind of swing things in adifferent direction during your
career.
Uh, obviously we kind of wentover the lawsuit and the shady
like blackball and stuff.
But do you have any maybe crazyor unexplainable, just kind of
wild moments behind the scenes,man?
Jon Fitch (21:15):
I don't know if I have anything in particular that
really reminds me off the topof my head.
"Headhunter" Higgins (21:20):
What was your favorite place?
You got to go fight.
Jon Fitch (21:24):
Well, yeah, best trip was definitely Brazil.
I had a Rio card recently and Igot to fight down in Rio too,
and that was great.
That was Bonner Silva.
I fought Eric Silva down there,the fight down in rio too, and
that was that was great.
That was bonner silva, uh, buteric silva down there and I I
stayed a little extra.
You know, I got, I got there alittle early and I stayed a
little extra.
I got to go and see the bigjesus statue and the big, the
(21:48):
big uh mountain with the cablecar thing and, um, this is
awesome.
Man, the food was crazy,beaches were awesome.
Just great, great night offights.
"Headhunter" Higgins (21:58):
I'm sure that was badass, it was pretty
spectacular.
Jon Fitch (22:02):
We like went into right on the edge like the
Amazon.
We went kind of inland for acouple days and I just one more,
like it was like a few daysafter the fight wake up, have my
Brazilian coffee.
It's kind of like I gritty andthen smoke a joint, have my
coffee and I'm looking at thisgiant forest and mountain it was
(22:26):
freaking crazy dude.
Hell yeah the forest washing.
They talk about forest bathing.
Oh yeah, it's a real thing.
"Headhunter" Higgins (22:32):
Go out barefoot grounded.
Yeah, Were you smoking yourwhole career because I never
would have took you as a stonerback in the day.
Jon Fitch (22:41):
Uh, yeah, pretty much .
Pretty much, um, it was.
You know, once I got tocalifornia, it was just the best
way to pain and and get somerest and sleep and that is the
way I could have a little bit offun and not go out drinking and
partying or do whatever and notpopping pills.
Around 2011, I started havinglike neck issues and I started
(23:06):
using that to really help withpain relief and stuff.
I had a friend that OD'd, ericRay.
He was a fighter.
He OD'd like in in 2005 fromopiates and I just wanted to
stay away from from pills.
Like even when I had myshoulder surgery, like I didn't
take any pain pills, I justmostly just smoked nice then.
"Headhunter" Higgins (23:28):
Uh, it should be an easy segue then.
Maybe not on the fighting side.
But is there any just crazierthings that you believe or you
get into that some people mightnot know that you believe in, or
conspiracies, ghosts, anything.
Any experiences?
Jon Fitch (23:43):
personal if you've been watching my timelines for,
I mean, I've been a skeptic ofthe government for a very long
time.
You know, I studied history incollege.
Um, I've been paying attention,uh, politically.
I kind of tuned out at, uh,2001, like weapons of mass
(24:03):
destruction.
I was like y'all lying, this,is this some horse shit?
Like I ain't paying attentionto this shit.
And then, uh, I was forced intopaying attention to politics in
2008 with the financial crisisand I purchased a home.
So, my, my house went deepunder.
That pissed me off and that ledme to ron paul, right and uh,
(24:24):
and a sound monetary system andunderstanding that that the us.
We've been going through aneconomic collapse since the 70s.
Right, we, we're like thetitanic.
When the titanic hit theiceberg, it didn't sink like in
the first hour.
It took like a really long timefor anybody to even know that
it was sinking.
Well, I think, I think peopleare starting to notice there's
(24:47):
water now.
I think we hit the iceberg inthe 70s and we're just, we just
started taking all our now.
Maybe, maybe we hit the icebergin 1913.
The Federal Reserve, maybethat's when we first hit the
iceberg.
But things got really bad inthe 70s, when we decoupled from
gold, and now we're justprinting money like crazy.
(25:09):
So I was telling people to buyBitcoin back in 2014.
I was even sending peopleBitcoin through Twitter.
There was an app thing thatthey were trying to promote and
you could be like here's a beeron me and it would send you
$3.50 worth of Bitcoin, andtoday that's probably like $350
(25:34):
or something, because of howmuch Bitcoin was back then.
"Headhunter" Higgins (25:39):
Yeah, I'm not a crypto guy by any means.
I probably should have got onthat a long time ago.
Jon Fitch (25:44):
It's still early because if there's ever going to
be 21 million made, there's notthat many to go around and all
the institutional investors arekind of buy up as much Bitcoin
as they can as a hedge forinflation.
I would definitely.
I'm not a financial advisor, inany means.
That's not financial advice.
(26:05):
But diversity, I think, is goodin your money A little bit of
Bitcoin, a little bit of silver,a little bit of gold, some
stocks I think it is not a badidea yeah, we, we know they
control things in a nuts andbolts type of way against us,
but what are your thoughts on?
(26:25):
uh, maybe more spiritual orbehind the scenes or hidden hand
type of occult type of shit youknow it's hard for me to
believe that there is anyorganized, super organized cult
of satanists doing anythingright?
Do I think there's some uhdepraved and sick people who uh
(26:49):
kind of open themselves up toevil or demons?
I guess, guess, and you knowpeople like Diddy, people like
Epstein and the people whooperate them.
I think there are.
You know people out there thatdo that stuff.
But I think you're getting toodeep in the weeds.
If you're thinking it's a, it'sa death cult, or you know
(27:11):
they're sacrificing babies, Ithink it's a step too far.
"$awbuck" Mike (27:15):
We're pretty deep in the weeds around here.
Do you think we went to themean I?
Jon Fitch (27:19):
know I do a show at jason burmess.
He actually was, uh, one of theproducers of that loose change
documentary.
Oh, wow, um, and we, we talk alot of conspiracy stuff and
trans, the transgenderism andtransgender imperative and and
all that stuff and I just Ialways go back to the same thing
and it's people are kind ofstupid and they make a lot of
(27:41):
mistakes and they're reallyegotistical and they run their
mouths and it's really hard forme to believe that people are
that good at keeping secrets.
You know, I really it's reallyhard for me to believe that
people are that good at keepingsecrets and I think there's
plenty of people who aremanipulating things for power
and money.
(28:02):
But I don't know if, like that,I don't think I, it's hard for
me to think that, yeah, we're,we're going to like sacrifice
the baby and do weird sex orgystuff Cause we're so rich, we're
bored, or whatever.
I X orgy stuff because we're sorich, we're bored, or whatever.
I, I, I don't know.
It seems like for me, like thewhole um, bohemian Grove, I
(28:23):
think it's a psyop.
"Headhunter" Higgins (28:23):
I think Alex.
Jon Fitch (28:24):
Jones works for them works for the government
controlled up yep, controlledopposition.
I believe, uh, because thatthat's one thing I do believe.
I think there are very powerfulpeople who can limit reach.
Right, they can turn down yourantenna, they can.
They can make less people seeyour posts.
They, because that's one thingI do believe I think there are
very powerful people who canlimit reach.
They can turn down your antenna.
(28:45):
They can make less people seeyour posts.
They can make less people seeyou.
They cannot give as muchattention to you.
In my opinion, anybody who'sactually getting blasted and
getting a lot of attention, it'smanufactured.
Somebody got a hook in themsomewhere because they could
just flip the switch, and thatguy's manufactured.
Somebody got a hook at himsomewhere because they could
just flip the switch, and thatguy's gone.
"Headhunter" Higgins (28:59):
Yeah, I tend to agree.
Jon Fitch (29:01):
They don't have to tolerate the powerful people,
the rich people.
If Hillary Clinton really hasall these body counts, why would
they let Joe Rogan keep runninghis mouth?
"Headhunter" Higgins (29:11):
Yeah, info's on me.
Why would?
Jon Fitch (29:12):
Alex Jones, why wouldn't he have gotten in a
drunk driving accident a longtime ago?
"Headhunter" Higgins (29:18):
Only pushed as hard as they'll allow
it to.
You don't want to gain as muchtraction as they push.
Jon Fitch (29:23):
You know, even, like, yeah, even the Sandy Hook stuff
.
I think all that it's one bigsigh out.
I think they set them up to saythose things and now
everybody's talking about thisstuff.
And not the monetary systemcollapsing, collapsing not the
wars in other countries, notpoverty and the homeless people.
None of those things get talkedabout.
"$awbuck" Mike (29:42):
Everybody's talking about this crazy one of
my favorite ones is the moon.
Do you think we went to themoon?
Jon Fitch (29:49):
man I don't think so I used to, I used to really
believe, but, but it's too muchtime has passed.
It makes zero sense.
It makes zero sense.
You're telling me, oh, there'sno money in it.
Bullshit.
I talked about this on my showfor a bit.
I had a little rant Bullshit,there's no billionaires that are
like, like I want to get a moonrock bitch.
(30:11):
Like nobody, nobody's going tofucking put the money up to take
a space ride to the moon.
Bullshit, bullshit.
Especially all these you knowclout chasing streamers and
whatever.
They're going to find ways tomake the money, mr Beast.
Mr Beast isn't going to themoon, my ass.
How much is it going to cost?
We sent people up to the moonwith less technology, less
(30:33):
technology than what's in myphone.
Exactly that seems iffy.
"$awbuck" Mike (30:38):
If we went to the moon 10 years after, there
would be hotels up there.
It would be a huge touristindustry.
Not one other country has senta live person to the moon since.
That's.
"Headhunter" Higgins (30:52):
I don't know.
Jon Fitch (30:53):
Come on, man, not a single person, not even like a
cool drone.
Like maybe you should be ableto like, set a uh, a cool drone
and firework display or someshit on fourth july or shoots
lasers off of it on the fourthof july something cool, nope?
"$awbuck" Mike (31:14):
have you ever seen something that you, that
you, would consider like a ghostor something?
I personally haven't.
I'm open to them, to therebeing a possibility of them.
I just haven't seen anythingwith my own eyes that I can say,
yeah, that is.
Have you have any stories likethat?
Maybe.
Jon Fitch (31:29):
Yeah, two stories.
Nice One driving to high schoolat night.
Look up and it's far away.
I see a light.
It's moving way too fast andtoo radically to be a plane or a
helicopter or whatever.
That was a few seconds thatjust took off.
There was a trail and it wasgone.
I was like what the fuck?
So that happened?
I saw something weird in thesky.
(31:49):
No idea what that could havebeen and that was you know, know
, over 20 years ago.
And then, uh, I had a frienddown in um huntington beach
going to irvine, uc irvine, allright, so I go to irvine, stayed
on there and in the house theyhad mentioned that they thought
there was a ghost like a littlelittle kid, little girl ghost
(32:13):
there and that people commonlywould fall asleep and get sleep
paralysis in the house, right,uh, like all the time, like
people would always fall asleepor get sleep paralysis in the
house.
They said they thought theythought it was because the
little girl spirit was likeholding down and uh, the thing
with little girl is like you'dnever like see her.
(32:33):
It was always you would see inyour periphery her reflection or
something in a mirror, right,so you'd come out of the shower
you whatever, and you just see ablur.
You'd look and then it would begone.
But like, I had a coupleexperiences where I I thought I
saw something in my peripheryand then, um, I got, I got the,
the sleep paralysis, like fouror five times in that, uh, in
(32:55):
that house and you never had asleep paralysis before or since
uh, a couple times in my, youknow, in my house, when I was a
kid, nothing I was concernedabout.
But you know, I don't know ifanything real happened, or maybe
it was suggestive, maybe it wasokay people talking about it,
and then it gets suggested andthen now it's in your head it
was people talking about it, andthen it gets suggested and then
(33:16):
now it's in your head, right?
Yeah, I'm not necessarily abeliever in any of that stuff,
but whatever, I can take notethat something weird happened.
"Headhunter" Higgins (33:25):
Flat Earth or Round Earth.
Jon Fitch (33:27):
That's an easy one.
What's that?
Flat Earth or Round Earth?
I'm still a Round Earth becausewe have sailors, we have people
who navigate the seas usingjust the stars, and if somebody
can you know, I would think theywould be able to tell by
(33:47):
looking at the stars, like wherethey're at.
I think you should be able touse math.
I'd seen somewhere that it saidyou can drive a straight line
or sail a straight line fromAlaska to India, but the only
way that's possible is if theEarth is a globe, because if it
wasn't a globe then you wouldhave to go around edges and
(34:09):
stuff.
"$awbuck" Mike (34:11):
I'm a glober too , yeah.
Jon Fitch (34:13):
But I will say this In my older years I realized
that a lot of what we've beentold is bullshit.
And if you haven't been able toapply the scientific method in
some sort on your own to asubject you really don't know,
you really don't know anything.
So I'm looking at everything asan interesting theory.
(34:34):
That's an interesting theoryunless I know for sure because I
experienced it, because I coulddo the experiment myself, I
could do the a b testing myself.
Right, I can, I can hold myglass and let go and it's gonna
fall.
I'm gonna be like, okay, yeah,that gravity thing, I get it
right.
I can.
I can, you know, drive my carand hit the brakes and feel
myself move forward like oh,inertia.
(34:54):
I see that things in motion dotend to stay in motion.
I can prove that myself.
But if I can't prove it myself,I'm at the point now where I'm
like it's interesting, because alot of like the political stuff
nowadays it's just who knowswhat's real and most of it I
have no control over and itdoesn't really personally affect
(35:15):
me straight up.
So like interesting, okay,thanks, like it's hard for me to
get invested in?
"Headhunter" Higgins (35:24):
yeah, for sure I'm.
I'm with it, especially same,like you said, knowing that most
of what we have been taught isa lie.
It makes it hard for me totrust anyone, and I just have a
distrust of nasa, who lied to usabout going to the moon and was
started by Nazis, started byFreemasons, so just.
Jon Fitch (35:44):
I'm skeptical of whatever it is they're trying to
tell us.
"Headhunter" Higgins (35:46):
Aliens.
Jon Fitch (35:47):
There's a comedian named Owen Benjamin.
Oh hell yeah, and he goes hardon the moon landing and flat
earth and a lot of stuff.
"Headhunter" Higgins (35:59):
He's hilarious.
Jon Fitch (36:02):
Yeah, he's an interesting one.
He's made me think about a fewthings pretty hard.
"$awbuck" Mike (36:05):
He's not real keen on uh crypto though he's a
smart guy though, so when he istalking about he's very
persuasive.
I know he he has opened my mindto a few things too that I
thought no fucking way.
Jon Fitch (36:17):
But yeah, no you have to understand what he's doing
at first, because he's he's Idon't even think he believes
some of the stuff he says.
He's just trying to make peoplethink.
So he'll say the mostoutrageous thing to be, like why
you know?
Like why do you believe whatyou believe?
Like I don't even know if he'sactually a flat earther, but I
think, like he wants to make youexplain why you think the globe
(36:37):
, why it's a globe, why is itround?
Like do you actually know?
Are you just accepting itbecause somebody told you?
"Headhunter" Higgins (36:44):
for sure.
His ability to mock and like,uh, parody things is fucking
hilarious, and I think that'sprobably what he's doing a
little bit too, just kind ofparodying everybody and
everybody's belief systems yeah,oh no, because, yeah, like all
the stuff he was saying aboutbitcoin and crypto is hilarious.
Jon Fitch (37:00):
It is like like I got out of this space, you know,
like I held on to my stuff, butlike I got out of that space
because it was like in 2018,2017, it was like kind of toxic
and annoying and gross and a lotof just grifters and I was like
man, I don't like most of thisstuff.
I don't believe it.
I believe in the technologybehind the bitcoin.
I believe in, like our monetarysystem falling apart and
(37:22):
needing the hedge, but I don'twant to deal with these, like
these scammers and these uh,what were they?
The initial initial initialstake offering or whatever,
whatever their icos or isos orwhatever what they were doing.
It was out in those crazy timesand and then another cycle
comes through.
We get the nfts and all thatcrazy.
(37:44):
I don't even know what's goingon now.
I'm just holding on to mybitcoin dude the nfts.
"$awbuck" Mike (37:48):
I thought I still don't understand why
anybody would want an nft.
I just just screenshot it, youknow.
I don't know.
I don't understand why peopleever thought that was a thing.
Do you believe in, uh, aliens?
I'm a huge alien guy.
I don't know what the fuck theyare.
Jon Fitch (38:05):
But I, I, I don't, I don't think so.
I mean like like squids andoctopuses, I think are probably
aliens, no doubt, unless thereis some technology that allows
people to to travel faster thanthe speed of light.
The the universe is too big forthere to be aliens to ever get
(38:25):
to us.
So they were like, so I.
That's two things I would haveto believe in.
I gotta have to believe in thistechnology that just snaps life
forms, you know, billions oflight years away from each other
, into each other's space.
I think it's more likely thatwe have a lot of government uh,
(38:47):
drone and spy programs.
We don't hear about a lot ofthese things because our
government doesn't want us to bescared, it doesn't want us to
know about different spy thingscoming over.
Remember there's like a chinesespy balloon not long ago that
was hilarious you know, and theyjust kind of push that under
the rug.
I think we're doing the samething to them.
I don't think we know all thetechnology of the things that
(39:08):
our government has, so I don'tknow.
I think a lot of it's justmisdirection too, I think.
I think the government will puttime and energy and money into
fake programs to make peoplethink that that's a real thing.
It's a distraction.
It's a distraction to truthseekers, I guess, and it's a
distraction to other governments, because these other
(39:30):
governments are like oh, theygot aliens over there.
Oh shit, who knows what kind ofcrazy alien technology they
might have.
So I think they use our taxmoney and they print more money
to do stupid programs, like thewhole psychic goat program thing
.
That was a real thing.
I think there's that guy whotalks about the spaceship and I
(39:51):
think that guy really thinks hesaw what he saw and he was being
paid to do what he was beingpaid to do.
But I think everything was fake.
"$awbuck" Mike (39:56):
Bob Lazar.
Jon Fitch (39:58):
Yeah, yeah, bob Lazar , right, I think he was lied Bob
Lazar.
Yeah, yeah, bob Lazar, right, Ithink he was lied to.
He believes everything and hesaw things, but I think it was
just all big trick and he wantedto believe, so it was probably
a lot easier to trick him.
"$awbuck" Mike (40:08):
He even said too , that he even his words were.
You know, they could havetotally been feeding me this to
puppet, because I guess the wordaround town was that he was
kind of a big mouth at the bar.
He did kind of have a loosemouth, so I mean it kind of
feeds into exactly what you weresaying, do you think that's
kind of what?
Like you know, recently DavidGrush has been, you know, going
(40:29):
before Congress and doing allthat BS and he is openly, he's
intelligent.
Jon Fitch (40:35):
So distraction.
It's 100% a distraction.
People are talking about that.
And what's going on with thebanks right now?
What's going on with thathousing market going to be
propped up as long as the stockmarket is going to keep getting
propped up with printed moneyand companies buying back their
own stock empire is crumblingand it's.
"Headhunter" Higgins (40:58):
It's funny what you said, that you think
it could have all just been, youknow, orchestrated from the
beginning and they pump moneyinto it.
One of our guests before WalterBosley I'm not sure if you've
heard of him, but he was thefirst to say or the first that
I've ever heard, at least saythat Roswell was like a double
triple psyop.
That Roswell's crash was one ofour crafts, like we had a top
(41:20):
secret craft we were testing.
It crashed and then, becausethey didn't want either our you
know, rivals or the public toknow that we were flying around
some crazy high-tech shit, thatthey instead used it as an
opportunity to be like, uh, allright, aliens.
We'll just, we'll tell them itwas an alien crash and then
they'll think you know, we havean alien epidemic at hand and we
can use that to our advantage.
(41:40):
And then, plus, our enemieswill think, yeah, we'll reverse
engineer an alien technology.
Really, we just we have thetechnology to do this.
While we keep them on gasolineand buying, like you know,
paying for electricity and shit,meanwhile we could be zooming
around in jetsons, ufos gotspace lasers we do have a space
force now.
"$awbuck" Mike (41:58):
Trump made that so.
Jon Fitch (42:00):
I don't know if you guys remember this, if you're
old enough for this, but therewas a movie back in the 80s
called Spies.
Like Us, right, I've never seenit.
It was Dan Aykroyd and ChevyChase and the whole thing was
kind of talking about RonaldReagan's space program, right,
because they had that spacelaser stuff they were supposed
to shoot down nukes, like theywere selling that, like that was
(42:22):
a real thing back back in the80s.
We still don't have that shit.
We still have space lasers,like some people think nukes
don't exist.
That's that's, that's anotherdinosaurs to.
"$awbuck" Mike (42:36):
Conspiracy have you heard?
The dinosaurs don't exist.
Jon Fitch (42:39):
People I've heard, I've heard that because it's a
conspiracy.
Have you heard that dinosaursdon't exist people?
I've heard that because it'sinteresting, Because their claim
is they haven't ever found afull skeleton of any of these
dinosaurs.
"$awbuck" Mike (42:49):
Not even close yeah.
Jon Fitch (42:51):
Yeah, they found like 10% of a skeleton and they just
recreate the rest of it.
They find a toe and a heel andthey just recreate the rest of
it.
You know, they find a toe and aheel and they're like look at
this fucking raptor that killsthings and eats goats and
whatever it's like you have noidea.
"$awbuck" Mike (43:08):
I mean, when I was growing up, dinosaurs had
scales.
Now supposedly they havefeathers.
So who?
"Headhunter" Higgins (43:14):
knows, I like to think they could have
been dragons.
Maybe dragons were real.
Jon Fitch (43:23):
That's what a lot of people think.
That's why the word dragon, theimage of the dragon and talking
about the dragon is souniversal in different cultures
at different time periods.
They think maybe that becausethey did maybe unearth some of
the dragons, or they found somefossils that made them think
that that was a dragon.
"$awbuck" Mike (43:43):
I don't know.
Dragons is a hard one for me tojump on and I'm a huge Dungeons
and Dragons nerd, so like noone would want dragons to be
real more than me, but that's ahard one for me, you know.
"Headhunter" Higgins (43:52):
So I would think it would have been.
Let's say, I don't know, Idon't know how I subscribe to
the timeline of how old theearth is or how old or how long
ago dinosaurs would have beenaround, but let's say it was
some type of ancient reptile andsome of them survived until
humans were around.
Or maybe they were around withearly primitive human and there
(44:14):
were small populations of themleft over in the jungle or in a
cave or some shit left over inthe jungle or in a cave or some
shit.
And the villagers and whateverknew like hey, don't go over
there, you're gonna get fuckingeaten by this like big
prehistoric creature, like somehuge alligator or something of
the sort, a large snake or justreptilian thing.
So that's when the most badasshero or knight or they would
(44:35):
send the village to go slay thedragon, because there was some
sort of threat that was.
Jon Fitch (44:40):
What is it that beowulf was like one of the
first written stories ever.
Was the guy going out andfighting the dragon?
"Headhunter" Higgins (44:46):
yeah, endless tales.
Jon Fitch (44:47):
No, I was watching something about this the other
day, because there's like, uh,asian egyptian hieroglyphs that
look like brontosauruses.
There's caveman paintings ofdifferent like big lizard
looking things.
So there's a lot of likedrawings of humans with things
that look like some type ofgiant reptile.
"Headhunter" Higgins (45:10):
Right.
Why would their Zodiac thinghave all real animals and then
one fake animal?
I would assume if they hadother fake animals they would
have thrown a unicorn or agriffin or something else up
there too.
So who knows?
"$awbuck" Mike (45:23):
I know Mike what else?
I know, I know that dragonsweren't real.
I know that much.
Well, john, it's always funtalking to you, brother.
I really appreciate you doingthis.
I know it's been a minute, butwhere can everybody get some
more of your stuff?
I know you mentioned that youdo a couple of shows and
everything.
Jon Fitch (45:42):
Yeah, you go to johnfitchnet sign up for the
newsletter.
I've got all my stuff links upthere.
I need to redo it, buteverything's up there.
Johnfitchsmash on Instagram.
Johnfitchnet spelled out onTwitter.
Yeah, I'm pretty easy to reachthrough DMs.
Official John Fitch is myYouTube page.
(46:05):
I do online instruction withpeople fighting stuff, jiu-jitsu
, weights, whatever and then Ihave stuff on my Gumroad.
So if you guys check all mylink stuff in my descriptions,
on my videos or on my social oruh on my social media accounts,
uh, you go to the gum road.
I got.
I got online programs for forlifting, nutrition, uh, cardio
(46:28):
and a lot of uh my seminars andteaching.
I filmed stuff and I put littlepackages and programs together
for people so they can get someextra um education outside of
their normal training placeAwesome.
"Headhunter" Higgins (46:44):
Thank you for coming on, bro.
True legend, true pioneer ofthe sport.
Thanks for your time.
Thanks for having me.
Guys.
I'll check you guys later.
John Fitch Always crazy to talkto dudes that I grew up
watching fight and used to belike so starstruck and shit and
just have a humanizing, chill,conspiracy conversation with him
.
"$awbuck" Mike (47:05):
Yeah, I'm not here to make an argument that
he's the best of all time.
He's not.
You think he's overrated orunderrated.
I don't think he's appreciatedenough.
I don't you know.
Yeah for sure I don't thinkmany.
I don't think he he's not topfive, but in my opinion he was
probably in his prime.
He was a top ten guy, like rightaround that area.
(47:26):
I mean he was really good.
Just his style wasn't superentertaining to people that
didn't like grappling and Ithink that kind of—and you know
it doesn't help.
When you got Dana Whitebad-mouthing, you know it
doesn't help.
When you got the fucking, whenyou got dana white, you know bad
, bad mouth and you that thatdoesn't help.
You know you had a lot ofthings going against him.
"Headhunter" Higgins (47:46):
Obviously, me as a wrestler and a grappler
a dude that could controlsomebody so well was
entertaining for me to watch andand I think it was exciting.
And don't get me wrong, thereare a lot of grapplers in mma
that I don't find entertainingor like to watch.
That is you know.
It's pretty lackluster, but Ialways liked John Fitch.
He was a fucking beast for sure.
(48:06):
Gave George St Pierre a goodfight.
That was the golden era too.
So much love for any of thoseguys from that time, some of my
favorite guests.
"$awbuck" Mike (48:16):
Oh yeah, and he's retardedly rich now.
Oh, really, favorite guests.
Oh yeah, and he's retardedlyrich now.
Really, because, yeah, thatsettlement, bro, oh yeah, the
settlement.
So I mean you got it was aridiculous hundreds of millions
of dollars, and then the threeprimary plaintiffs were him,
nate quarry and um kung lee.
Yeah, so they get the bulk ofit.
(48:37):
So, but even let's say there's150 fighters in the lawsuit,
okay, so you spread $350 million.
Well, that's before taxes.
So let's say you take $180million, you spread that through
150 fighters.
Okay, but the bulk of that $180is going to go to those three
main guys.
So, at the very least, let's golow, let's go super low.
(49:00):
John's got 15 million in thebank brutal fought the system in
one.
Yeah, no doubt, no doubt.
And he, he doesn't need to bepodcasting, he doesn't need to
be selling anything, he my pointis, he's got money, he's doing
this because he, he wants to doit, you know.
So I think that's cool too.
But who really thought thatthey were going to win that
(49:26):
lawsuit?
I mean, there was two.
One got dismissed right awayand dude, here we are all these
years later.
I wonder how mark hunt's fightis going.
"Headhunter" Higgins (49:35):
Yeah, that's another one.
He was probably one of the fewguys, like he even said, though
to just be like, okay, it's justa job, it's just a boss, like
looking at it like that is somuch funnier, like it's your
country, like boss at thewarehouse or at something else,
and it's dana white and the ufc,and you're just like, oh well,
yeah, this is a job, like fuckthem, I don't really care you
know, what I found super fun andinteresting in the podcast was
(49:59):
you, you know.
"$awbuck" Mike (50:01):
So we started opening up the conspiracy talk
and he's like, yeah, you know,I'm not too into that.
And then he proceeds to go likehe lists all these conspiracies
that he totally buys into.
I love it, you know it's likeyeah.
I don't know, I'm not too.
And then he's like well,definitely, this one, of course.
Yeah, that one for sure.
"Headhunter" Higgins (50:19):
It's like all right, yeah, okay, you're
one of us people who don't, yeah, who don't consider themselves
a conspiracy theorist, yeah, Imean, yeah, it is just becoming
more so common knowledgenowadays that it's not even uh
the kook, it's just everyone hastheir own uh spectrum that they
believe conspiracies, startingout with uh.
"$awbuck" Mike (50:38):
Okay, yeah, the government kind of lied to us
maybe to, holy shit, the worldis uh run by interdimensional
demons and it's run by itsservants, or it's possessed,
fucking lackeys and one of myfavorites of late is flat earth,
and if anybody's listening andthey consider themselves a flat
earth expert or they knowsomebody, please let us know,
(51:03):
because we have been trying toget a flat earth expert guest on
here so we can talk to them.
We've explored it veryrudimentary.
We'd like to take a deep diveand put some chill vibes into it
.
So someone that is listeninghopefully is an expert, or they
know an expert.
So someone that is listeninghopefully is an expert, or they
know an expert.
(51:23):
They can get in touch with Tomor I, tom and or myself via
social media at Two TruthSeekers, or you could reach out
to me at Sawbuck Mike, or youcould reach out to Tom at
Headhunter Higgins, or you couldemail us at
conspiracyandchillayahoocom.
If you want to be one of thevery first Conspiracy and Chill
Syndicate members, you can do soat Patreon.
If you want to help support theshow, you can do so for as
little as $3 by hitting thatlittle button on whatever
(51:45):
platform you're listening to uson.
If you can't do any of that,but you still want to help out,
give us a five-star review.
That shit really helps.
What else you got?
Nothing, all right, stay withus.
From Petaphiles.
We'll be right back guitar solo.
Jon Fitch (52:06):
Thank you,
The Nephilim sightings are going to start
soon.
"Headhunter" Higg (00:04):
Consciousness has been enslaved.
Jon Fitch (00:06):
Your consciousness does not need your physical body
to survive.
"$awbuck" Mike (00:11):
It's the thing that's necessary.
It has to be there.
It's the coding that projectsthis world we currently live in.
I want you to read the Bible.
Jon Fitch (00:19):
We got reptilians just outside of our frequency
zone.
"$awbuck" Mike (00:22):
Six dimensional beings, the ancient builder race
.
Ideas are the highest form ofintelligence, and that leads you
to truth and clarity.
The Nephilim sightings aregoing to stall soon.
Conspiracy show.
It's obvious.
The aliens are god-fearing,insanely huge, or just one
planet.
They would have needed aminimum of six feet of lead
shielding in order to getthrough the 25,000 mile thick of
(00:43):
nl and radiation belt.
This is real.
They really did fake the moon.
The world is infinitely olderthan that, and I mean the world
with human beings in it, skulland bones is like one of the
villains in the legion of doom,they said.
"Headhunter" Higgins (00:57):
I'll let you read the bible the biblical
flood, the tartaria mud floodconspiracy and chill the
nephilim sightings are going tostart soon.
"$awbuck" Mike (01:05):
The bulldog ball .
I don't want you to read thebible.
"Headhunter" Higgins (01:08):
There's magnets in the basketballs.
There was a political party, athird party called the
anti-masonic party, at a pointin uh in the united states, the
global pandemic treatyconspiracy and chill podcast I
like the long hair mustache.
Look too, gotta say yeah, Ijust.
Jon Fitch (01:28):
I spent like three years.
I just keep growing it.
I don't know what to do with it.
"Headhunter" Higgins (01:32):
Girlfriend likes it, so looks like you
could go straight into some prowrestling.
Any plans on that?
"$awbuck" Mike (01:37):
no, he's not a pro wrestling fan yeah, I'm not.
Jon Fitch (01:41):
I was just listening to uh to you rant about pro
wrestling how you uh watch theiron claw, but yeah, not your
cup of tea origins of catchwrestling and they make some
(02:02):
claims about, uh, one of thekick, uh, the catch wrestling
legends, training maeda, who,who later went to the gracies.
So they're kind of claimingthat catcher gracies actually
just stole a catch wrestling,they just put a gi on and they
renamed all this stuff.
Did you do catch wrestling too?
I I've never officially donecatch wrestling but, you know,
(02:27):
as a fighter, like if it hurtsand it works, of course you know
there's plenty of things that,uh, I I've come up with or I do
or use that aren't necessarilythings that are traditionally
taught in in jiu jitsu.
Right, yeah, but um, yeah,catch is a very like top
dominant controlling type style,but it was also built off of
(02:51):
professionals traveling andfighting hobos take on all
comers.
So, like you know, the uh, theboston crab could work on on
somebody who's never doneanything in Dana's life, you
know that is hilarious.
"Headhunter" Higgins (03:07):
That's actually what I was in
California for.
I've been competing lately incatch wrestling and I was with
Eric Paulson and Josh Burnett itwas Josh Burnett's tournament
and a bunch of dudes fromEngland and actually a lot of
the people that were there andlike competing and training were
pro wrestlers primarily andthey're trying to like get more
into the real roots of thegrappling, I guess no, it's
(03:28):
super interesting, um, thehistory of it and I get it.
Jon Fitch (03:32):
um, because you know these guys, it'd be like me,
like I'm gonna go make somemoney, so I'm gonna go on the
train and I'm gonna travel, andevery stop I'm gonna, me and my
friends are gonna challenge thebest guys in the land and
they're going to place bets.
And I can't just go out thereand smash everybody, because
then nobody else will want tochallenge me and nobody will
(03:53):
place any bets.
So they would go and they wouldjust play with these guys oh,
you've got my arm, oh, andthey'd get out of it and then
they'd put them in a lock andthen they'd give something up
and they out of it, and thenthey put them in a lock and then
they give something up andthey'd make it look like a close
fight and then, when it wastime to like get out of there,
then they would win real quickand take the money and go.
So I mean, it makes sense, Iget it.
(04:13):
There's a carny grifter vibe toit and there's a realness to it
.
But when you I don't know, whenyou start fixing things that
are sold as a legitimatesporting competition, that
starts bothering me.
That's right.
I feel like it deflates.
(04:33):
It deflates real fightcompetition.
"Headhunter" Higgins (04:34):
it lets it lets too many bad elements, too
many bad promoters and shadypromoters get in there and pull
strings 100, I agree, and withthe first version of them doing
that would been like, yeah,you're beating everybody's ass
and then you have your buddywho's with you is also a
wrestler in the crowd and youhave someone bet on him and he
steps up and pretends to be arandom nobody and then he beats
your ass like save some traveler.
Jon Fitch (04:54):
And then, yeah, you get a close, make a good fight,
you put on a good show, and thenyou guys meet up out of town
and have beers yeah, you gottathink how awesome that would
have been back then to be one ofthose guys though that's a way
to make a living right you knowall about shady promoters, right
, oh man it's, uh, it's in theirblood, it's in their
"Headhunter" Higgins (05:13):
blood.
It's just the intermediary totake the money away from the
fighters.
You know, instead of just goingright to the actual competitor,
there's a middleman.
Then well, the promoter.
Jon Fitch (05:23):
The promoter is supposed to work for the athlete
.
That's how it's supposed towork, right?
Because your job as the athleteis to fight.
Your job is to fight and win.
That's it.
It's their job to make sureeverybody knows who the hell you
are.
It's their job to be loud andand promote you and and do the
advertising for you.
That way you can focus ontraining.
(05:43):
You shouldn't have to be likeyelling in a megaphone on a
soapbox telling people aboutyour fight yourself, which is
exactly what they expect you todo today in mma.
Right?
Just look at, uh, thedifference.
Like I follow, like mayweatherboxing and you know you can
follow the ufc and like I justfeel like Mayweather does a
(06:06):
better job of pushing their guysout there than the UFC does.
It feels more like UFC and MMApromotions use the fighters'
names to build their own brandrather than actually cheering on
the athlete and hyping theathlete up.
"$awbuck" Mike (06:24):
I was just telling uh tom here before we
went live.
Uh, I think the first time Ispoke with you, john, was like
in 2016, and you had alreadybeen involved in the lawsuit for
a few years, and I just thinkit's so cool, man, that here we
are in 2024 and it's finallyresolved, and not many people
(06:45):
thought you would, you wouldcome out on top and you did and
you persevered, and I just thinkthat's fucking awesome, dude
yeah, it was.
Jon Fitch (06:53):
Uh, you know it's.
It's important that peopleremember it's only one part of a
three-pronged attempt to likechange the way that mma has done
in this industry.
Uh, one is one is the lawsuit,because that's how other sports
uh achieved their free agencyand, uh um, their collective
(07:14):
bargaining agreements eitherthrough lawsuits or through, uh,
threat of lawsuits.
Right, that that's how.
That's how all the other bigsports became the big sports and
started making the money.
The athletes started making themoney they're making because
the government stepped in.
They had to sue or had tothreaten the lawsuit.
So we still have to encouragefighters to join the Fighters
(07:37):
Association, the MMAFA.
Be active in that.
Be active in that.
If we can get everybody to signup and pledge allegiance to the
Fighters Association, we canstart having votes and making
decisions on what things we wantto do and how we want to run
things.
We need to realize that we'reonly going to take care of each
other because everybody else ispimping us out, like the
(07:58):
managers, the coaches, thepromoters themselves.
They will stay in business.
We only have a short time tocompete and make money, you know
, uh.
And then we also uh need to getguys together to help push and
promote the ali act.
We need the ali expansion act.
We need to get the same uhlegal protections that boxers
(08:19):
get from promoters.
You know, there's no reason whywe shouldn't have those same
protections that they get.
Do you still follow the sportlike?
Do you still watch fights?
I, I do my show john fish knowsnothing um, every sunday night
at seven on the left coast, andthat's uh where I watch whatever
violence I can on the weekend,a lot of bare knuckles events,
(08:43):
um, I did watch karate combatnot long ago.
Sometimes the boxing events wehad we had canelo and lomachenko
fighting um relatively recently.
So you know I'm always watchingsomething and then I talk about
it on the show.
And I started doing another uhshow on wednesday nights called
loose change, and it's just acontinuation of my other podcast
(09:03):
show because sometimes duringthe week other things happen and
pop up worth talking about.
So I'll talk about whateverweird thing popped up in the
middle of the week.
"$awbuck" Mike (09:13):
Loose Change.
Do you remember thatdocumentary about the Twin
Towers?
It was called Loose Change,wasn't it?
That's what it reminded me of.
"Headhunter" Higgins (09:21):
That's immediately what came to mind
too.
I was going to say, though,though, john, that you're the
perfect guest for this show,because, like me being a
grappler and a martial artistand mike being mma journalist,
and we've had that crossoverwith a lot of fighters and the
conspiracy aspect, but, like,your career kind of has a
conspiracy to it, like evenbefore the the whole lawsuit,
(09:41):
because you're, you know, on agreat win streak, you're a top
contender for the longest timethe career pivot of what
happened to me like from uh.
Jon Fitch (09:51):
I basically had two, two careers.
I had pre uh contract disputeand post contract dispute.
Right, pre-contact dispute wasuh, all my fights leading up to
gsp, the gsp fight and a shorttime after that, right.
And then we had the video gamedispute and then I went from the
(10:11):
next greatest thing you know Iwas 8-0 going into the fight
with GSP.
So I was 8-1 with four finishes.
Everybody thought I was, youknow, great and loved watching
me fight.
I headlined stuff and whatever.
And then contract dispute andthen, oh, he's not very good,
he's boring, he's notentertaining, nobody wants to
(10:33):
watch him fight.
They stopped even interviewingme after fights just because
they know If you want to buildnotoriety and a base of fans,
they need to hear you talk, theyneed to see you after the fight
, they need to get a humanelement of you after the fight.
So if you're just rushed offthe cage after your fight I
noticed they've done it to a fewguys too where they don't, they
(10:56):
don't interview them after theafter the fight.
That's, that's not an accident,it has nothing to do with
timing.
Or?
Oh, it's not an accident, ithas nothing to do with timing or
oh, we don't have enough timeto fit all the fights in
Bullshit.
They have enough time.
They have enough time to do two, three minute interview.
Talk to somebody.
They choose not to take thattime because they don't want
(11:17):
people to get to know thatfighter.
They don't want that guy to beidentifiable.
"Headhunter" Higgins (11:24):
They don't want anybody to start liking
that guy because of something hesays 100% and you think it
arose from, you said, the videogame contract or some dispute
over your likeness.
Jon Fitch (11:32):
Essentially I said no to them, and I said no to them
a few times because there wasvideo game agreement, the
merchandising agreement that wasshit too.
And then them trying to make mefight Kostchek for a non-title
uh fight.
So I was just like no, like Inever looked at them as like oh
my god, you're the boss, you'reso amazing.
(11:54):
Like I thank you for theopportunities, but you're
they're just another promoter.
Like who?
Who gives a shit.
Like there'll be otherpromotions.
There's always other promotions.
There are other places to goand make money that were just as
big or bigger back then.
So like I was like who is thisguy?
Like who are you?
I never understood the peoplewho you know.
(12:15):
Kind of get on their knees forthese people, right?
You're the show.
Like that's why they use yourname on the marquee.
You're the show, not thepromoter.
The promoter really isn't thatmaterial.
It doesn't matter as much.
Most people will never rememberwho the promoters are.
"Headhunter" Higgins (12:33):
They were just upset.
You didn't want to play ballthe way they did and fighting
against the system.
Jon Fitch (12:37):
Yep, I said no to them and that's bad, because
then other people see, oh, he'stelling us, no, that's not okay,
we got to deal with this.
That whole thing, that wholevideo game agreement thing, that
like they didn't contact me,they contacted the press, they
canceled my contract because Iwouldn't sign.
And then they went to the pressand said, yeah, we cut John
(13:00):
Fitch and these guys because, no, we cut John Fitch because he's
not, he doesn't make me inKasha, because they're not
signing the video gamingagreement.
They put that on the press Like, why, why wouldn't you call us?
Why wouldn't you like work withour managers?
Why wasn't there communicationin any way?
They just went straight to thepress.
So I woke up to my newsfeed likeI lost my job.
(13:22):
I'm like what the hell is goingon?
You know, I think that's not anaccident, that's strategic.
They know what they're doing.
And, sure enough, after that,like you know, I I was going to
leave and, uh, go to strikeforce.
I was finally fighting forstrike force at the time.
Like I said, there was placesto go.
They got mad at that because Iwas demonstrating that I could
(13:43):
say no to them and continue tofight and make money, so they
threatened to cut all of myteammates everybody from aka
there's whoa everybody from akaand everybody who was
represented by my management wasseeking entertainment, so that
means they're.
You know they would have cutcane if you lost that.
There wouldn't have been a dc,there wouldn't have been a rock
hold like that.
(14:03):
That was what they were tellingme.
So I was like, fine, right, Idon't want to be a problem, I'll
just, I'll just sign the sign,the.
There wouldn't have been a DC,there wouldn't have been a
Rockhold Like that was what theywere telling me.
So I was like, fine, right, Idon't want to be a problem, I'll
just sign the stupid video gamething.
Whatever, I'm going to win mynext fights and win the title,
and then you're going to kiss myass.
That was my mindset.
But yeah, like that was a big,strong attack.
(14:27):
And everybody who saw that,like all the signatures poured
in after that little event, thatlittle stunt.
"Headhunter" Higgins (14:30):
It worked 100 dude.
It's got to be so frustratingto, I mean, do everything right,
be a top contender, dominateall your fights, essentially
like, put all your hard work touse and what you think is you
know a legitimate sport, atleast as far as other sports go.
You have pretty much fullcontrol over your destiny.
You trained your.
You know a legitimate sport, atleast as far as other sports go
.
You have pretty much fullcontrol over your destiny.
You trained your best.
You get to control the outcome.
It's an individual sport andthen to still get you know
(14:53):
blacklisted and not get thetitle shot or have it, you know,
taken from you.
Are you familiar with BilalMuhammad?
Jon Fitch (15:00):
That's what I was going to say oh yeah, they're
giving him that treatment rightnow.
"Headhunter" Higgins (15:04):
A hundred percent.
That's one of my guys, one ofmy friends and training partners
this past weekend he's gettingheat from winning his fight,
like, come on, he's fighting agiant striker.
Jon Fitch (15:17):
You're mad at him because he used MMA, he used
mixed martial arts.
He used a mixed martial arts togain an advantage.
I don't understand these people.
Uh, one fc, one championships,one championships has small
glove muay thai, small glove,muay thai, bare knuckles exists.
Like, why are you guys wastingyour time watching mma?
(15:40):
I don't get it at all.
It's like I'm gonna start goingto tennis matches and be like
boo use your feet, kick the ball, you suck.
Make it make sense to me.
I've never understood that.
I've never understood that.
You know I don't particularlylike most of this sport, but I
want to still watch it for thetiny piece that I like and then
complain about all the stuffthat doesn't fit that tiny
(16:02):
aspect that I like.
"Headhunter" Higgins (16:05):
That is a funny analogy with the tennis
one.
But you're, you're right.
They could watch something elseif they don't like the
grappling.
"$awbuck" Mike (16:10):
That is the point of mixed martial arts it's
to a point now where there'ssometimes when a guy will have a
takedown and side control andthey'll separate them and stand
them up.
Jon Fitch (16:21):
But it's like he worked so hard to get that
position and because he he mightnot have moved in 10 seconds,
you're gonna, it's because fanpressure, you know so a lot of
people are so clueless about, um, the skill set of fighters
today they think the fighterstoday are so advanced over guys
20 years ago, 30 years ago nobullshit, right.
(16:41):
I've been watching fights fromthe 90s, okay, the nineties.
I was watching this like aclash of champions nine or
something like that.
It's from 1990.
They filmed it in SouthernCalifornia.
Right, it was four mantournament.
They had one 55, 70 something,85 heavyweight and it was no
close fist to the to the face,right, but they could kick to
(17:03):
the face, they could leg kicktakedowns, full submissions on
the ground, just no punching tothe face.
You could hit to the body, youcould elbow to the body, you
could headbutt to the body, justno punches to the face.
These guys were skilled.
They were throwing big kicks,body kicks, kicks to the legs,
hitting takedowns, workingsubmissions.
They knew some ground hittingtakedowns, working submissions.
(17:26):
They knew some ground.
There's been a false narrativetold to people about the ufc
origin and the great season, allthis, all this stuff.
Right, there were lots of guyswho could have probably won that
first ufc tournament easily,but they were not allowed to
compete yep there wasn't even areal wrestler in the first few
there was.
I can't remember who the guy was.
There was a guy who was on theOlympic ladder as a wrestler, a
(17:49):
judokan, and he had trainedboxing for some years.
That was somebody that theywere trying to get into those
early UFC's and they were justlike would not because he was
too good, too advanced.
There's a lot of I don't know.
I've been surfing just a lot ofI don't know.
There, there I've been, I'vebeen surfing just a lot of old,
old fights.
Gracie fighting championships in2007 right, they did in.
(18:12):
Like columbus ohio.
Like matt brown, jack arraythere's a bunch of fights on
that part.
It was.
It was pretty great and theskills of the guys fighting were
pretty damn good.
Like I wouldn't.
I wouldn't say that, uh, youraverage ufc fighter would, would
have beaten any of those guysin that, in that, uh, in that
(18:33):
card.
You know, like solid people,good, stand up.
I actually kind of think thefighters a lot of them have
gotten watered down with theirskill sets because they're
starting to become jacks of alltrades.
Right, they know a little bitof everything, but they have
never specialized and dominatedin any one thing, any one field.
(18:54):
Sorry, I got a little fuckingbugs in here.
"Headhunter" Higgins (18:57):
Look like a crazy guy well, you're on the
crazy guy podcast, that's forsure.
Jon Fitch (19:04):
So yeah, I mean, I don't know.
Just I think there's somethinga little bit missing.
And then I think there's a lotof that attitude of just getting
clout chasing and just beingpopular, like I'm just going to,
people are going to know me,I'm going to get knocked out
(19:25):
real bad.
And people are going to know me, me like there's not really a
desire to actually fight, theyjust want to be seen.
I don't know, because youremember, man, back 90s, early
2000s, guys are traveling allover, sometimes out of pocket,
to fight for 100 bucks, 500bucks.
Yeah, I've driven hundreds ofmiles to fight for 250.
(19:45):
How many guys are still doingthat today?
"Headhunter" Higgins (19:48):
There's a lot more heart and passion in
like I don't know what to callit.
I guess the zufa era like theheight of your career kind of
time, like when there wasn'tfights every single weekend and
the pay-per-views was like amuch more big deal.
And they were, they werestacked and, like you said, the
guys were more specialized intheir styles.
It made for interestingmatchups.
I I don't think I'm just beingnostalgic by saying that era was
(20:10):
way more entertaining andawesome.
It really just was.
I miss it.
It's the same yeah, yeah, yeah.
"$awbuck" Mike (20:17):
I like watching highlights and, and instantly,
if I see sponsors on shorts, Iknow it's, I know it's going to
be, you know, a good fight, andthere's no way that you can tell
me that boss rutin, uh, frankshamrock, guy, metzger dan
severin, you can't tell me thoseguys weren't fucking talented
Yep.
Jon Fitch (20:36):
Yep, marco Huas.
I want to go back.
I'm going to try to find it,but I'm going to go back and
watch the Pride LightHeavyweight Grand Prix.
Oh yeah, remember that.
Hell yeah, if any of you guys,listeners back home, have never
seen that dude, go do that.
Go watch.
It was just a bunch of killers.
"Headhunter" Higgins (20:58):
Every fight was crazy literally and to
kind of swing things in adifferent direction during your
career.
Uh, obviously we kind of wentover the lawsuit and the shady
like blackball and stuff.
But do you have any maybe crazyor unexplainable, just kind of
wild moments behind the scenes,man?
Jon Fitch (21:15):
I don't know if I have anything in particular that
really reminds me off the topof my head.
"Headhunter" Higgins (21:20):
What was your favorite place?
You got to go fight.
Jon Fitch (21:24):
Well, yeah, best trip was definitely Brazil.
I had a Rio card recently and Igot to fight down in Rio too,
and that was great.
That was Bonner Silva.
I fought Eric Silva down there,the fight down in rio too, and
that was that was great.
That was bonner silva, uh, buteric silva down there and I I
stayed a little extra.
You know, I got, I got there alittle early and I stayed a
little extra.
I got to go and see the bigjesus statue and the big, the
(21:48):
big uh mountain with the cablecar thing and, um, this is
awesome.
Man, the food was crazy,beaches were awesome.
Just great, great night offights.
"Headhunter" Higgins (21:58):
I'm sure that was badass, it was pretty
spectacular.
Jon Fitch (22:02):
We like went into right on the edge like the
Amazon.
We went kind of inland for acouple days and I just one more,
like it was like a few daysafter the fight wake up, have my
Brazilian coffee.
It's kind of like I gritty andthen smoke a joint, have my
coffee and I'm looking at thisgiant forest and mountain it was
(22:26):
freaking crazy dude.
Hell yeah the forest washing.
They talk about forest bathing.
Oh yeah, it's a real thing.
"Headhunter" Higgins (22:32):
Go out barefoot grounded.
Yeah, Were you smoking yourwhole career because I never
would have took you as a stonerback in the day.
Jon Fitch (22:41):
Uh, yeah, pretty much .
Pretty much, um, it was.
You know, once I got tocalifornia, it was just the best
way to pain and and get somerest and sleep and that is the
way I could have a little bit offun and not go out drinking and
partying or do whatever and notpopping pills.
Around 2011, I started havinglike neck issues and I started
(23:06):
using that to really help withpain relief and stuff.
I had a friend that OD'd, ericRay.
He was a fighter.
He OD'd like in in 2005 fromopiates and I just wanted to
stay away from from pills.
Like even when I had myshoulder surgery, like I didn't
take any pain pills, I justmostly just smoked nice then.
"Headhunter" Higgins (23:28):
Uh, it should be an easy segue then.
Maybe not on the fighting side.
But is there any just crazierthings that you believe or you
get into that some people mightnot know that you believe in, or
conspiracies, ghosts, anything.
Any experiences?
Jon Fitch (23:43):
personal if you've been watching my timelines for,
I mean, I've been a skeptic ofthe government for a very long
time.
You know, I studied history incollege.
Um, I've been paying attention,uh, politically.
I kind of tuned out at, uh,2001, like weapons of mass
(24:03):
destruction.
I was like y'all lying, this,is this some horse shit?
Like I ain't paying attentionto this shit.
And then, uh, I was forced intopaying attention to politics in
2008 with the financial crisisand I purchased a home.
So, my, my house went deepunder.
That pissed me off and that ledme to ron paul, right and uh,
(24:24):
and a sound monetary system andunderstanding that that the us.
We've been going through aneconomic collapse since the 70s.
Right, we, we're like thetitanic.
When the titanic hit theiceberg, it didn't sink like in
the first hour.
It took like a really long timefor anybody to even know that
it was sinking.
Well, I think, I think peopleare starting to notice there's
(24:47):
water now.
I think we hit the iceberg inthe 70s and we're just, we just
started taking all our now.
Maybe, maybe we hit the icebergin 1913.
The Federal Reserve, maybethat's when we first hit the
iceberg.
But things got really bad inthe 70s, when we decoupled from
gold, and now we're justprinting money like crazy.
(25:09):
So I was telling people to buyBitcoin back in 2014.
I was even sending peopleBitcoin through Twitter.
There was an app thing thatthey were trying to promote and
you could be like here's a beeron me and it would send you
$3.50 worth of Bitcoin, andtoday that's probably like $350
(25:34):
or something, because of howmuch Bitcoin was back then.
"Headhunter" Higgins (25:39):
Yeah, I'm not a crypto guy by any means.
I probably should have got onthat a long time ago.
Jon Fitch (25:44):
It's still early because if there's ever going to
be 21 million made, there's notthat many to go around and all
the institutional investors arekind of buy up as much Bitcoin
as they can as a hedge forinflation.
I would definitely.
I'm not a financial advisor, inany means.
That's not financial advice.
(26:05):
But diversity, I think, is goodin your money A little bit of
Bitcoin, a little bit of silver,a little bit of gold, some
stocks I think it is not a badidea yeah, we, we know they
control things in a nuts andbolts type of way against us,
but what are your thoughts on?
(26:25):
uh, maybe more spiritual orbehind the scenes or hidden hand
type of occult type of shit youknow it's hard for me to
believe that there is anyorganized, super organized cult
of satanists doing anythingright?
Do I think there's some uhdepraved and sick people who uh
(26:49):
kind of open themselves up toevil or demons?
I guess, guess, and you knowpeople like Diddy, people like
Epstein and the people whooperate them.
I think there are.
You know people out there thatdo that stuff.
But I think you're getting toodeep in the weeds.
If you're thinking it's a, it'sa death cult, or you know
(27:11):
they're sacrificing babies, Ithink it's a step too far.
"$awbuck" Mike (27:15):
We're pretty deep in the weeds around here.
Do you think we went to themean I?
Jon Fitch (27:19):
know I do a show at jason burmess.
He actually was, uh, one of theproducers of that loose change
documentary.
Oh, wow, um, and we, we talk alot of conspiracy stuff and
trans, the transgenderism andtransgender imperative and and
all that stuff and I just Ialways go back to the same thing
and it's people are kind ofstupid and they make a lot of
(27:41):
mistakes and they're reallyegotistical and they run their
mouths and it's really hard forme to believe that people are
that good at keeping secrets.
You know, I really it's reallyhard for me to believe that
people are that good at keepingsecrets and I think there's
plenty of people who aremanipulating things for power
and money.
(28:02):
But I don't know if, like that,I don't think I, it's hard for
me to think that, yeah, we're,we're going to like sacrifice
the baby and do weird sex orgystuff Cause we're so rich, we're
bored, or whatever.
I X orgy stuff because we're sorich, we're bored, or whatever.
I, I, I don't know.
It seems like for me, like thewhole um, bohemian Grove, I
(28:23):
think it's a psyop.
"Headhunter" Higgins (28:23):
I think Alex.
Jon Fitch (28:24):
Jones works for them works for the government
controlled up yep, controlledopposition.
I believe, uh, because thatthat's one thing I do believe.
I think there are very powerfulpeople who can limit reach.
Right, they can turn down yourantenna, they can.
They can make less people seeyour posts.
They, because that's one thingI do believe I think there are
very powerful people who canlimit reach.
They can turn down your antenna.
(28:45):
They can make less people seeyour posts.
They can make less people seeyou.
They cannot give as muchattention to you.
In my opinion, anybody who'sactually getting blasted and
getting a lot of attention, it'smanufactured.
Somebody got a hook in themsomewhere because they could
just flip the switch, and thatguy's manufactured.
Somebody got a hook at himsomewhere because they could
just flip the switch, and thatguy's gone.
"Headhunter" Higgins (28:59):
Yeah, I tend to agree.
Jon Fitch (29:01):
They don't have to tolerate the powerful people,
the rich people.
If Hillary Clinton really hasall these body counts, why would
they let Joe Rogan keep runninghis mouth?
"Headhunter" Higgins (29:11):
Yeah, info's on me.
Why would?
Jon Fitch (29:12):
Alex Jones, why wouldn't he have gotten in a
drunk driving accident a longtime ago?
"Headhunter" Higgins (29:18):
Only pushed as hard as they'll allow
it to.
You don't want to gain as muchtraction as they push.
Jon Fitch (29:23):
You know, even, like, yeah, even the Sandy Hook stuff
.
I think all that it's one bigsigh out.
I think they set them up to saythose things and now
everybody's talking about thisstuff.
And not the monetary systemcollapsing, collapsing not the
wars in other countries, notpoverty and the homeless people.
None of those things get talkedabout.
"$awbuck" Mike (29:42):
Everybody's talking about this crazy one of
my favorite ones is the moon.
Do you think we went to themoon?
Jon Fitch (29:49):
man I don't think so I used to, I used to really
believe, but, but it's too muchtime has passed.
It makes zero sense.
It makes zero sense.
You're telling me, oh, there'sno money in it.
Bullshit.
I talked about this on my showfor a bit.
I had a little rant Bullshit,there's no billionaires that are
like, like I want to get a moonrock bitch.
(30:11):
Like nobody, nobody's going tofucking put the money up to take
a space ride to the moon.
Bullshit, bullshit.
Especially all these you knowclout chasing streamers and
whatever.
They're going to find ways tomake the money, mr Beast.
Mr Beast isn't going to themoon, my ass.
How much is it going to cost?
We sent people up to the moonwith less technology, less
(30:33):
technology than what's in myphone.
Exactly that seems iffy.
"$awbuck" Mike (30:38):
If we went to the moon 10 years after, there
would be hotels up there.
It would be a huge touristindustry.
Not one other country has senta live person to the moon since.
That's.
"Headhunter" Higgins (30:52):
I don't know.
Jon Fitch (30:53):
Come on, man, not a single person, not even like a
cool drone.
Like maybe you should be ableto like, set a uh, a cool drone
and firework display or someshit on fourth july or shoots
lasers off of it on the fourthof july something cool, nope?
"$awbuck" Mike (31:14):
have you ever seen something that you, that
you, would consider like a ghostor something?
I personally haven't.
I'm open to them, to therebeing a possibility of them.
I just haven't seen anythingwith my own eyes that I can say,
yeah, that is.
Have you have any stories likethat?
Maybe.
Jon Fitch (31:29):
Yeah, two stories.
Nice One driving to high schoolat night.
Look up and it's far away.
I see a light.
It's moving way too fast andtoo radically to be a plane or a
helicopter or whatever.
That was a few seconds thatjust took off.
There was a trail and it wasgone.
I was like what the fuck?
So that happened?
I saw something weird in thesky.
(31:49):
No idea what that could havebeen and that was you know, know
, over 20 years ago.
And then, uh, I had a frienddown in um huntington beach
going to irvine, uc irvine, allright, so I go to irvine, stayed
on there and in the house theyhad mentioned that they thought
there was a ghost like a littlelittle kid, little girl ghost
(32:13):
there and that people commonlywould fall asleep and get sleep
paralysis in the house, right,uh, like all the time, like
people would always fall asleepor get sleep paralysis in the
house.
They said they thought theythought it was because the
little girl spirit was likeholding down and uh, the thing
with little girl is like you'dnever like see her.
(32:33):
It was always you would see inyour periphery her reflection or
something in a mirror, right,so you'd come out of the shower
you whatever, and you just see ablur.
You'd look and then it would begone.
But like, I had a coupleexperiences where I I thought I
saw something in my peripheryand then, um, I got, I got the,
the sleep paralysis, like fouror five times in that, uh, in
(32:55):
that house and you never had asleep paralysis before or since
uh, a couple times in my, youknow, in my house, when I was a
kid, nothing I was concernedabout.
But you know, I don't know ifanything real happened, or maybe
it was suggestive, maybe it wasokay people talking about it,
and then it gets suggested andthen now it's in your head it
was people talking about it, andthen it gets suggested and then
(33:16):
now it's in your head, right?
Yeah, I'm not necessarily abeliever in any of that stuff,
but whatever, I can take notethat something weird happened.
"Headhunter" Higgins (33:25):
Flat Earth or Round Earth.
Jon Fitch (33:27):
That's an easy one.
What's that?
Flat Earth or Round Earth?
I'm still a Round Earth becausewe have sailors, we have people
who navigate the seas usingjust the stars, and if somebody
can you know, I would think theywould be able to tell by
(33:47):
looking at the stars, like wherethey're at.
I think you should be able touse math.
I'd seen somewhere that it saidyou can drive a straight line
or sail a straight line fromAlaska to India, but the only
way that's possible is if theEarth is a globe, because if it
wasn't a globe then you wouldhave to go around edges and
(34:09):
stuff.
"$awbuck" Mike (34:11):
I'm a glober too , yeah.
Jon Fitch (34:13):
But I will say this In my older years I realized
that a lot of what we've beentold is bullshit.
And if you haven't been able toapply the scientific method in
some sort on your own to asubject you really don't know,
you really don't know anything.
So I'm looking at everything asan interesting theory.
(34:34):
That's an interesting theoryunless I know for sure because I
experienced it, because I coulddo the experiment myself, I
could do the a b testing myself.
Right, I can, I can hold myglass and let go and it's gonna
fall.
I'm gonna be like, okay, yeah,that gravity thing, I get it
right.
I can.
I can, you know, drive my carand hit the brakes and feel
myself move forward like oh,inertia.
(34:54):
I see that things in motion dotend to stay in motion.
I can prove that myself.
But if I can't prove it myself,I'm at the point now where I'm
like it's interesting, because alot of like the political stuff
nowadays it's just who knowswhat's real and most of it I
have no control over and itdoesn't really personally affect
(35:15):
me straight up.
So like interesting, okay,thanks, like it's hard for me to
get invested in?
"Headhunter" Higgins (35:24):
yeah, for sure I'm.
I'm with it, especially same,like you said, knowing that most
of what we have been taught isa lie.
It makes it hard for me totrust anyone, and I just have a
distrust of nasa, who lied to usabout going to the moon and was
started by Nazis, started byFreemasons, so just.
Jon Fitch (35:44):
I'm skeptical of whatever it is they're trying to
tell us.
"Headhunter" Higgins (35:46):
Aliens.
Jon Fitch (35:47):
There's a comedian named Owen Benjamin.
Oh hell yeah, and he goes hardon the moon landing and flat
earth and a lot of stuff.
"Headhunter" Higgins (35:59):
He's hilarious.
Jon Fitch (36:02):
Yeah, he's an interesting one.
He's made me think about a fewthings pretty hard.
"$awbuck" Mike (36:05):
He's not real keen on uh crypto though he's a
smart guy though, so when he istalking about he's very
persuasive.
I know he he has opened my mindto a few things too that I
thought no fucking way.
Jon Fitch (36:17):
But yeah, no you have to understand what he's doing
at first, because he's he's Idon't even think he believes
some of the stuff he says.
He's just trying to make peoplethink.
So he'll say the mostoutrageous thing to be, like why
you know?
Like why do you believe whatyou believe?
Like I don't even know if he'sactually a flat earther, but I
think, like he wants to make youexplain why you think the globe
(36:37):
, why it's a globe, why is itround?
Like do you actually know?
Are you just accepting itbecause somebody told you?
"Headhunter" Higgins (36:44):
for sure.
His ability to mock and like,uh, parody things is fucking
hilarious, and I think that'sprobably what he's doing a
little bit too, just kind ofparodying everybody and
everybody's belief systems yeah,oh no, because, yeah, like all
the stuff he was saying aboutbitcoin and crypto is hilarious.
Jon Fitch (37:00):
It is like like I got out of this space, you know,
like I held on to my stuff, butlike I got out of that space
because it was like in 2018,2017, it was like kind of toxic
and annoying and gross and a lotof just grifters and I was like
man, I don't like most of thisstuff.
I don't believe it.
I believe in the technologybehind the bitcoin.
I believe in, like our monetarysystem falling apart and
(37:22):
needing the hedge, but I don'twant to deal with these, like
these scammers and these uh,what were they?
The initial initial initialstake offering or whatever,
whatever their icos or isos orwhatever what they were doing.
It was out in those crazy timesand and then another cycle
comes through.
We get the nfts and all thatcrazy.
(37:44):
I don't even know what's goingon now.
I'm just holding on to mybitcoin dude the nfts.
"$awbuck" Mike (37:48):
I thought I still don't understand why
anybody would want an nft.
I just just screenshot it, youknow.
I don't know.
I don't understand why peopleever thought that was a thing.
Do you believe in, uh, aliens?
I'm a huge alien guy.
I don't know what the fuck theyare.
Jon Fitch (38:05):
But I, I, I don't, I don't think so.
I mean like like squids andoctopuses, I think are probably
aliens, no doubt, unless thereis some technology that allows
people to to travel faster thanthe speed of light.
The the universe is too big forthere to be aliens to ever get
(38:25):
to us.
So they were like, so I.
That's two things I would haveto believe in.
I gotta have to believe in thistechnology that just snaps life
forms, you know, billions oflight years away from each other
, into each other's space.
I think it's more likely thatwe have a lot of government uh,
(38:47):
drone and spy programs.
We don't hear about a lot ofthese things because our
government doesn't want us to bescared, it doesn't want us to
know about different spy thingscoming over.
Remember there's like a chinesespy balloon not long ago that
was hilarious you know, and theyjust kind of push that under
the rug.
I think we're doing the samething to them.
I don't think we know all thetechnology of the things that
(39:08):
our government has, so I don'tknow.
I think a lot of it's justmisdirection too, I think.
I think the government will puttime and energy and money into
fake programs to make peoplethink that that's a real thing.
It's a distraction.
It's a distraction to truthseekers, I guess, and it's a
distraction to other governments, because these other
(39:30):
governments are like oh, theygot aliens over there.
Oh shit, who knows what kind ofcrazy alien technology they
might have.
So I think they use our taxmoney and they print more money
to do stupid programs, like thewhole psychic goat program thing
.
That was a real thing.
I think there's that guy whotalks about the spaceship and I
(39:51):
think that guy really thinks hesaw what he saw and he was being
paid to do what he was beingpaid to do.
But I think everything was fake.
"$awbuck" Mike (39:56):
Bob Lazar.
Jon Fitch (39:58):
Yeah, yeah, bob Lazar , right, I think he was lied Bob
Lazar.
Yeah, yeah, bob Lazar, right, Ithink he was lied to.
He believes everything and hesaw things, but I think it was
just all big trick and he wantedto believe, so it was probably
a lot easier to trick him.
"$awbuck" Mike (40:08):
He even said too , that he even his words were.
You know, they could havetotally been feeding me this to
puppet, because I guess the wordaround town was that he was
kind of a big mouth at the bar.
He did kind of have a loosemouth, so I mean it kind of
feeds into exactly what you weresaying, do you think that's
kind of what?
Like you know, recently DavidGrush has been, you know, going
(40:29):
before Congress and doing allthat BS and he is openly, he's
intelligent.
Jon Fitch (40:35):
So distraction.
It's 100% a distraction.
People are talking about that.
And what's going on with thebanks right now?
What's going on with thathousing market going to be
propped up as long as the stockmarket is going to keep getting
propped up with printed moneyand companies buying back their
own stock empire is crumblingand it's.
"Headhunter" Higgins (40:58):
It's funny what you said, that you think
it could have all just been, youknow, orchestrated from the
beginning and they pump moneyinto it.
One of our guests before WalterBosley I'm not sure if you've
heard of him, but he was thefirst to say or the first that
I've ever heard, at least saythat Roswell was like a double
triple psyop.
That Roswell's crash was one ofour crafts, like we had a top
(41:20):
secret craft we were testing.
It crashed and then, becausethey didn't want either our you
know, rivals or the public toknow that we were flying around
some crazy high-tech shit, thatthey instead used it as an
opportunity to be like, uh, allright, aliens.
We'll just, we'll tell them itwas an alien crash and then
they'll think you know, we havean alien epidemic at hand and we
can use that to our advantage.
(41:40):
And then, plus, our enemieswill think, yeah, we'll reverse
engineer an alien technology.
Really, we just we have thetechnology to do this.
While we keep them on gasolineand buying, like you know,
paying for electricity and shit,meanwhile we could be zooming
around in jetsons, ufos gotspace lasers we do have a space
force now.
"$awbuck" Mike (41:58):
Trump made that so.
Jon Fitch (42:00):
I don't know if you guys remember this, if you're
old enough for this, but therewas a movie back in the 80s
called Spies.
Like Us, right, I've never seenit.
It was Dan Aykroyd and ChevyChase and the whole thing was
kind of talking about RonaldReagan's space program, right,
because they had that spacelaser stuff they were supposed
to shoot down nukes, like theywere selling that, like that was
(42:22):
a real thing back back in the80s.
We still don't have that shit.
We still have space lasers,like some people think nukes
don't exist.
That's that's, that's anotherdinosaurs to.
"$awbuck" Mike (42:36):
Conspiracy have you heard?
The dinosaurs don't exist.
Jon Fitch (42:39):
People I've heard, I've heard that because it's a
conspiracy.
Have you heard that dinosaursdon't exist people?
I've heard that because it'sinteresting, Because their claim
is they haven't ever found afull skeleton of any of these
dinosaurs.
"$awbuck" Mike (42:49):
Not even close yeah.
Jon Fitch (42:51):
Yeah, they found like 10% of a skeleton and they just
recreate the rest of it.
They find a toe and a heel andthey just recreate the rest of
it.
You know, they find a toe and aheel and they're like look at
this fucking raptor that killsthings and eats goats and
whatever it's like you have noidea.
"$awbuck" Mike (43:08):
I mean, when I was growing up, dinosaurs had
scales.
Now supposedly they havefeathers.
So who?
"Headhunter" Higgins (43:14):
knows, I like to think they could have
been dragons.
Maybe dragons were real.
Jon Fitch (43:23):
That's what a lot of people think.
That's why the word dragon, theimage of the dragon and talking
about the dragon is souniversal in different cultures
at different time periods.
They think maybe that becausethey did maybe unearth some of
the dragons, or they found somefossils that made them think
that that was a dragon.
"$awbuck" Mike (43:43):
I don't know.
Dragons is a hard one for me tojump on and I'm a huge Dungeons
and Dragons nerd, so like noone would want dragons to be
real more than me, but that's ahard one for me, you know.
"Headhunter" Higgins (43:52):
So I would think it would have been.
Let's say, I don't know, Idon't know how I subscribe to
the timeline of how old theearth is or how old or how long
ago dinosaurs would have beenaround, but let's say it was
some type of ancient reptile andsome of them survived until
humans were around.
Or maybe they were around withearly primitive human and there
(44:14):
were small populations of themleft over in the jungle or in a
cave or some shit left over inthe jungle or in a cave or some
shit.
And the villagers and whateverknew like hey, don't go over
there, you're gonna get fuckingeaten by this like big
prehistoric creature, like somehuge alligator or something of
the sort, a large snake or justreptilian thing.
So that's when the most badasshero or knight or they would
(44:35):
send the village to go slay thedragon, because there was some
sort of threat that was.
Jon Fitch (44:40):
What is it that beowulf was like one of the
first written stories ever.
Was the guy going out andfighting the dragon?
"Headhunter" Higgins (44:46):
yeah, endless tales.
Jon Fitch (44:47):
No, I was watching something about this the other
day, because there's like, uh,asian egyptian hieroglyphs that
look like brontosauruses.
There's caveman paintings ofdifferent like big lizard
looking things.
So there's a lot of likedrawings of humans with things
that look like some type ofgiant reptile.
"Headhunter" Higgins (45:10):
Right.
Why would their Zodiac thinghave all real animals and then
one fake animal?
I would assume if they hadother fake animals they would
have thrown a unicorn or agriffin or something else up
there too.
So who knows?
"$awbuck" Mike (45:23):
I know Mike what else?
I know, I know that dragonsweren't real.
I know that much.
Well, john, it's always funtalking to you, brother.
I really appreciate you doingthis.
I know it's been a minute, butwhere can everybody get some
more of your stuff?
I know you mentioned that youdo a couple of shows and
everything.
Jon Fitch (45:42):
Yeah, you go to johnfitchnet sign up for the
newsletter.
I've got all my stuff links upthere.
I need to redo it, buteverything's up there.
Johnfitchsmash on Instagram.
Johnfitchnet spelled out onTwitter.
Yeah, I'm pretty easy to reachthrough DMs.
Official John Fitch is myYouTube page.
(46:05):
I do online instruction withpeople fighting stuff, jiu-jitsu
, weights, whatever and then Ihave stuff on my Gumroad.
So if you guys check all mylink stuff in my descriptions,
on my videos or on my social oruh on my social media accounts,
uh, you go to the gum road.
I got.
I got online programs for forlifting, nutrition, uh, cardio
(46:28):
and a lot of uh my seminars andteaching.
I filmed stuff and I put littlepackages and programs together
for people so they can get someextra um education outside of
their normal training placeAwesome.
"Headhunter" Higgins (46:44):
Thank you for coming on, bro.
True legend, true pioneer ofthe sport.
Thanks for your time.
Thanks for having me.
Guys.
I'll check you guys later.
John Fitch Always crazy to talkto dudes that I grew up
watching fight and used to belike so starstruck and shit and
just have a humanizing, chill,conspiracy conversation with him
.
"$awbuck" Mike (47:05):
Yeah, I'm not here to make an argument that
he's the best of all time.
He's not.
You think he's overrated orunderrated.
I don't think he's appreciatedenough.
I don't you know.
Yeah for sure I don't thinkmany.
I don't think he he's not topfive, but in my opinion he was
probably in his prime.
He was a top ten guy, like rightaround that area.
(47:26):
I mean he was really good.
Just his style wasn't superentertaining to people that
didn't like grappling and Ithink that kind of—and you know
it doesn't help.
When you got Dana Whitebad-mouthing, you know it
doesn't help.
When you got the fucking, whenyou got dana white, you know bad
, bad mouth and you that thatdoesn't help.
You know you had a lot ofthings going against him.
"Headhunter" Higgins (47:46):
Obviously, me as a wrestler and a grappler
a dude that could controlsomebody so well was
entertaining for me to watch andand I think it was exciting.
And don't get me wrong, thereare a lot of grapplers in mma
that I don't find entertainingor like to watch.
That is you know.
It's pretty lackluster, but Ialways liked John Fitch.
He was a fucking beast for sure.
(48:06):
Gave George St Pierre a goodfight.
That was the golden era too.
So much love for any of thoseguys from that time, some of my
favorite guests.
"$awbuck" Mike (48:16):
Oh yeah, and he's retardedly rich now.
Oh, really, favorite guests.
Oh yeah, and he's retardedlyrich now.
Really, because, yeah, thatsettlement, bro, oh yeah, the
settlement.
So I mean you got it was aridiculous hundreds of millions
of dollars, and then the threeprimary plaintiffs were him,
nate quarry and um kung lee.
Yeah, so they get the bulk ofit.
(48:37):
So, but even let's say there's150 fighters in the lawsuit,
okay, so you spread $350 million.
Well, that's before taxes.
So let's say you take $180million, you spread that through
150 fighters.
Okay, but the bulk of that $180is going to go to those three
main guys.
So, at the very least, let's golow, let's go super low.
(49:00):
John's got 15 million in thebank brutal fought the system in
one.
Yeah, no doubt, no doubt.
And he, he doesn't need to bepodcasting, he doesn't need to
be selling anything, he my pointis, he's got money, he's doing
this because he, he wants to doit, you know.
So I think that's cool too.
But who really thought thatthey were going to win that
(49:26):
lawsuit?
I mean, there was two.
One got dismissed right awayand dude, here we are all these
years later.
I wonder how mark hunt's fightis going.
"Headhunter" Higgins (49:35):
Yeah, that's another one.
He was probably one of the fewguys, like he even said, though
to just be like, okay, it's justa job, it's just a boss, like
looking at it like that is somuch funnier, like it's your
country, like boss at thewarehouse or at something else,
and it's dana white and the ufc,and you're just like, oh well,
yeah, this is a job, like fuckthem, I don't really care you
know, what I found super fun andinteresting in the podcast was
(49:59):
you, you know.
"$awbuck" Mike (50:01):
So we started opening up the conspiracy talk
and he's like, yeah, you know,I'm not too into that.
And then he proceeds to go likehe lists all these conspiracies
that he totally buys into.
I love it, you know it's likeyeah.
I don't know, I'm not too.
And then he's like well,definitely, this one, of course.
Yeah, that one for sure.
"Headhunter" Higgins (50:19):
It's like all right, yeah, okay, you're
one of us people who don't, yeah, who don't consider themselves
a conspiracy theorist, yeah, Imean, yeah, it is just becoming
more so common knowledgenowadays that it's not even uh
the kook, it's just everyone hastheir own uh spectrum that they
believe conspiracies, startingout with uh.
"$awbuck" Mike (50:38):
Okay, yeah, the government kind of lied to us
maybe to, holy shit, the worldis uh run by interdimensional
demons and it's run by itsservants, or it's possessed,
fucking lackeys and one of myfavorites of late is flat earth,
and if anybody's listening andthey consider themselves a flat
earth expert or they knowsomebody, please let us know,
(51:03):
because we have been trying toget a flat earth expert guest on
here so we can talk to them.
We've explored it veryrudimentary.
We'd like to take a deep diveand put some chill vibes into it
.
So someone that is listeninghopefully is an expert, or they
know an expert.
So someone that is listeninghopefully is an expert, or they
know an expert.
(51:23):
They can get in touch with Tomor I, tom and or myself via
social media at Two TruthSeekers, or you could reach out
to me at Sawbuck Mike, or youcould reach out to Tom at
Headhunter Higgins, or you couldemail us at
conspiracyandchillayahoocom.
If you want to be one of thevery first Conspiracy and Chill
Syndicate members, you can do soat Patreon.
If you want to help support theshow, you can do so for as
little as $3 by hitting thatlittle button on whatever
(51:45):
platform you're listening to uson.
If you can't do any of that,but you still want to help out,
give us a five-star review.
That shit really helps.
What else you got?
Nothing, all right, stay withus.
From Petaphiles.
We'll be right back guitar solo.
Jon Fitch (52:06):
Thank you,
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