39 | Nathaniel J. Gillis | Demonology, Ufology, and Archetypes | "Corpse Pollution" - Conspiracy and Chill Podcast

Episode Transcript
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"$awbuck" Mike (00:01):
The Nephilim sightings are going to start
soon.

"Headhunter" Higg (00:04):
Consciousness has been enslaved.

Nathaniel J. Gillis (00:06):
Your consciousness does not need your
physical body to survive.
It's the thing that's necessary.
It has to be there.
It's the coding that projectsthis world we currently live in.
I want you to read the Bible.
We got reptilians just outsideof our frequency zone.

Six dimensional beings, the ancient builder race
.
Ideas are the highest form ofintelligence, and that leads you
to truth and clarity.
The Nephilim sightings aregoing to stall soon.

Conspiracy show it's obvious the aliens are
god-fearing and insanely huge.
We're just one planet.

They would have needed a minimum of six feet of
lead shielding in order to getthrough the 25,000 mile thick of
nl and radiation belt.

"Headhunter" Higgins (00:44):
This is real.
They really did fake the moon.

The world is infinitely older than that and I
mean the world with humanbeings in it, skull and bones,
is like one of the villains inthe legion of doom they said
I'll let you read the bible.

The biblical flood, the tartaria mud
flood conspiracy, and chill.
The nephilim sightings aregoing to stall soon.
The bulldog ball I don't wantyou to read the bible.
There's magnets in thebasketballs.
There was a political party, athird party called the
anti-masonic party, at a pointin uh.

In the united states the global pandemic
treaty conspiracy and chillpodcast.
So for folks that don't know,you are an author.
You've written a couple ofbooks, the Skin that Crawls A
Moment Called man.
You're a demonologist, aufologist.
I listened to a lot of yourpodcast appearances I could find

(01:36):
, and one of the things that Ithought was really interesting
and I never heard a take likethis was you believe that both
phenomenon are the same and kindof somewhere down the line,
kind of adjusted to us, kind ofbeing aware of it, and I thought
that was so interesting.
So I could you elaborate onthat a little bit yeah.

So the phenomenon is evolving according
to our awareness of it, and itis usually three or four steps
ahead of us.
So by the time we take, take abreath, catch our breath, for
that matter you start realizingwhat's been occurring.
It adjusts, it makes, uh, to adegree it's not just evolving
according to awareness, but it'sevading us, and so the research

(02:21):
I've been doing as a late islooking at the
interconnectivities betweendemonology, ufology and other
phenomenon, the paranormal, andwatching it as it has leaned
into and out of archetypes,something that was created

(02:47):
within the mind of thepopulation or something was
fabricated.
Even now, all of a sudden, outof nowhere, the phenomenon
starts demonstrating that,manifesting that with
experiencers very strange stuff.
And so the very first time Irecognized that behavioral
pattern was in my researchregarding incubide succub cases
where the phenomenon would stepinto roles and into archetypes

(03:07):
in order to manipulate theexperiencer, and these
archetypes themselves were notalways historically accurate.
And that's when I realized waita minute, we're being gaslit,
we're being manipulated by aspecies.
And so I of took that concept,concept and extrapolated that
into a larger understanding of.

(03:29):
You know, it's possible thateven demonology itself isn't
complete.
I I'm pretty sure, at leastfrom my perspective, that the
extraterrestrial hypothesis isequally fraudulent and that,
whatever this phenomenon is, inorder to evade us, it has to
evolve with us, and somewhere inthat paradigm there is the

(03:53):
reflective nature of whateverthis intelligence is.

That is honestly like the most interesting take
that I've ever heard on thephenomenon which is called the
phenomenon.
I think that's really brilliantthat you were able to kind of
piece that together through yourresearch.
Another thing, that I foundreally interesting was correct
me if I'm wrong was your firstexperience was when you were
nine years old, and it was witha being, a pale girl that had

(04:22):
dark hair under your bed thatended up being a shadow or a
shadow person.

Right, right, and that case study alone
it showed me how it wasmutating in its pathology and so
like, yeah, I can go down that,down that rabbit hole real
quick for everybody.
So I know there's gonna be newlisteners on your show that
haven't heard it.
But I moved into a new houseand it was close to nine.

(04:49):
It was about eight and a half.
You'd call it nine, whatever.
I always use a half because atthat time and age it mattered.
Right, like I'm 15 and a half,you know.
Um, now looking back, I'malmost 36 next month.
I'm like doesn't matter at all,but, um, yeah, so I into the
house.
But it was actually touring thehouse before my parents
purchased it that I encounteredthat apparition.

(05:10):
It was a little girl hidingunderneath the bed and at first
blush I didn't know where toplace her.
I thought, at least in mylittle mind, that she belonged
to a neighbor and that she hadsnuck in.
You know the family was out todinner.
The only person there is arealtor, I'm thinking.
You know she got in through theback door and she didn't
realize we were going to bethere.
I didn't know what to think,honestly, but I couldn't place

(05:32):
her Once we actually moved intothat neighborhood.
I knew everybody, every family,and obviously, being that young
, you know how it is man who'splaying today, looking, looking
out there, looking outside forbicycles, like all right.
Once I got to know theneighborhood, I realized this
girl belonged like she didn'tbelong to anybody, none of the
families.
She wasn't even somebody thatactually lived there in the past

(05:52):
and I could have told you thatafter moving in and experiencing
what I encountered I mean, itwasn't just a little girl, like
I said, it mutated and it'spathology.
Then it was shadow figures,then it was what's called direct
voice phenomenon, which isalways occurring above your head
, and I would wake up to fullbody or not full body, but full

(06:24):
blown conversations occurringabove my head, where I could
hear seemingly two entitiesconversing.
And it was the weirdest thingever and I thought I was alone,
until I got connected to a guynamed steve mara who was like
you know, he's a presspsychologist.
He's like no man, he's likethis.
We experienced this too, butthere was this, this parasitic
and symbiotic relationship thatthis, this entity, demonstrated.
It wasn't merely on a level ofhaunting, it was almost I said

(06:46):
this before, but it was almostprojecting a fear on me and in
monitoring my belief in it.
Do I agree with the intrusivethoughts?
And once I started to believenot just in the intrusive
thought but in the terror it wasprojecting, that's when it
seemed to get stronger, and so Icreated a coping mechanism

(07:10):
where I allowed myself to feelthe fear coming from it without
being afraid of it.
So it was almost me allowingmyself to have autonomy that
that kind of disavowed thephenomenon.
I mean, literally I winged itoff and in a sense starved it,

(07:33):
and before long it justdissipated to nothing.
But that was my very firstencounter with this intelligence
and if anything, I learned that, um, this entity was not
various phenomenon, it wasn't aghost one day right and a demon
the next.
No, it was a singularintelligence that had worn both

(07:54):
entities as masks, and that kindof spawned this idea in my mind
that has since been validatedby others in the field that what
we are dealing with is asingular intelligence and that
in order to evolve and evade us,it has to dawn various

(08:15):
incarnations and archetypes,that in that way it kind of
eludes us in forever existing inthe dark corner where we'll
never truly understand what itis, where it's coming from and
what its agenda.

So, from that day forth, were you able to
interact with the phenomenon orwere you more conscious or aware
of it?

I was aware of it absolutely.
Another strange thing happened,though, when I first entered
that room during the open house.
Of course, I saw thefull-bodied apparition, but
there was a stench to it, andI'm looking around and there's
nothing in the room.
It was just a bed, that's it.
So there wasn't, like you know,anything decomposing, there was
no rotten or rotting organicmatter, it was just a bed.

(09:02):
And yet I smelled something, andlater on in my life, especially
doing investigations, Irealized that that was most
likely either consciousness orthat entity itself, and that
what I was using to perceive itwas not my nostrils, it was some
kind of extrasensory way ofinterpreting that entity, and

(09:26):
I've been on investigationswhere I've experienced that
again.
Right, some people consider itsmells like sulfur, some other
demonologists say that it smellslike a corpse, but that was
another manifestation thatreally piqued my interest, and
so later on in my research, Icame across literature that it
was about case studies inantiquity, where early

(09:48):
demonology consisted of thatlike they literally believed
that the entity itself smelledlike the body it came from, and
so there was this sense ofwhat's called corpse pollution
and that's.
I don't want a picture on that,but that's essentially what I
experienced to my belief, now,my knowledge now, um, but

(10:12):
whatever we're dealing with,it's hyper evasive and it will
often implant archetypes withinour consciousness and then use
that as a mortal portal, portalwhich to manifest into.
This is why and I noticed thisspecifically with experiencers
that like, for instance, oneexperiencer was abducted by

(10:33):
Jesus, but the problem is, itwasn't like the you know the
historical version of Jesus,right?
No, he wasn't from the Levant,he was like the Swedish
Presbyterian version of Jesus.
He wasn't from the Levant, hewas like the Swedish
Presbyterian version of Jesus.
And so what the phenomenon didthis is incredible is it was
almost like it took an image ofJesus in her mind and stepped
into that mask and then beganinterfacing with her.

(10:57):
And this is why it's sodifficult for many experiencers
to break away from the idea.
Okay, that's not who it'sappearing to be.
Why?
Because it's constructing itsmask out of archetypes that we
have already believed in, and sothis demonstrates a symbiotic

(11:17):
relationship.
And I don't want to ramble, man, so you can.
I can just go on and on, but Iwon't so what do you believe
that the source entity would bethen?

You think that most phenomena then would
be a single, you know,malevolent intelligence.

Then just all over the place.
It can be malevolent, what itwants to be.
I've had cases where it turnssymbiotic to parasitic, and this
is interesting too.
It quite literally takes all ofthe information about you that
it gleaned during the symbioticrelationship co-evolving with

(11:53):
you and then takes all of thatinformation, weaponizes it when
it wants to become parasitic.
We've seen these case studieswithin succubi encounters where,
when the phenomenon begins tointerface again with the female,
oftentimes it will mask as ahusband, a lover, a deceased,
like a deceased husband.
All the above and in.

(12:16):
The woman has no idea what thisis.
But but it's trying to to mimic.
It's called parasitic mimicry.
It's wanting that experiencerto believe I am who I appear to
be and somewhere within thatparadigm belief.
It's almost like they're notjust stepping into the role, but
they're fulfilling that role toa T and so, whatever that image

(12:39):
is, it somehow coordinates withwhat their agenda is.
So, for instance, I had a casestudy in India where a lady was
being visited by multipleentities, like for the last
three years, and she's like itusually comes at night, hovers
over me and it looks like anex-boyfriend.
But I said, ok, well, how manyboyfriends has it manifested as

(13:01):
she goes well, everybody thatI've been intimate with.
She said seven men.
I said so do you think thatthese are all separate entities?
She said no, I believe it's oneentity, but it's wearing
various masks, and so when youget into the way it interfaces
with these experiencers, it'snot just deception.
It's deception according to theagenda, and once, and even

(13:25):
within the uh, one of thegnostic texts, the apocrypha of
john.
It talks about this verybehavioral pathology where,
literally, okay, I'm interfacingwith you and I want you to
believe I am who I appear to be,but at the moment of conception
, literally impregnation, thephenomenon would take the mask
off and the experiencers leftmaking eye contact with whatever

(13:46):
that entity truly is.
I had a case study, about threemonths ago now, where the
gentleman wanted me to come andcleanse the house, and it's
fascinating, but we were.
He said okay, nathaniel.
He said I want to explain myposition.
He's like I don't believe inspirits, I don't believe in any
of this.
He's like the only thing thatconvinced me that all of this is

(14:06):
real is my wife, who has beenvisited by an entity that is
constantly on top of her whenshe's in bed, and he said this
is incredible.
He said so the last time.
She wasn't even asleep.
She's awake, but she's in inparalysis.

(14:27):
And he asked her, honey, whereis he now?
And she said he is hoveringdirectly over me.
So this pathology of evolvingaccording to our awareness of it
, of stepping into archetypesand roles, it is one of the more
profound interconnectivitiesbetween demonology and ufology.
So one man's incubi entity is aor, yeah, succubi entity is

(14:51):
another man's abduction, to apoint at least in my research it
got to a degree where it's like, okay, there are too many
overlapping characteristics forthese phenomenon to be
completely separate, and that'swhen I kind of drifted into
occult research and we can getinto that.

(15:12):
But basically, to answer yourquestion, I believe it's a
singular intelligence and thatwe've seen it throughout history
.
It has evolved just as we have,and again, the reason it's
evolving is because it wants toevade.

Before we get into some of the cold stuff.
I want to ask you or sharerather a personal story that Tom
, I think, does know about me,and I'm really not okay.
Obviously I host a conspiracyshow, so my mind is open, right,
but I tend not to believe inghosts and spirits.

(15:49):
However, there is two instancesin my life that make me
question Before I share the oneI want to share with you.
That is rather strange andthere's physical evidence on my
body.
But I wanted to ask you beforewhat is your feeling when this
phenomenon visits you in a dream?
Can something leave a physicalmark on your body from a dream?

(16:12):
Absolutely.

Yes, so to answer your questions, I want to
hear what you're going to tellme.
But yes, absolutely, and thereis overwhelming evidence that
these are not in fact dreams,that whatever they're doing to
us is real, but in order toevade our senses and to guide us
into cooperation.
It's just a nightmare, and thenyou wake up the next day going

(16:37):
wait a minute, okay, there arephysical traces.

So when I was I don't know how old, I want to
say maybe I was like eight ornine years old I was with my
mother, we lived with mygrandmother and we lived
upstairs and it was like a brickbungalow house in Berwyn.
So we lived upstairs and I hadthis dream my mom's favorite
movie is the Wizard of Oz, okay,I had this dream that the

(17:05):
wicked witch of the west was atthe top of the stairs and I was
in the middle, going up to her,and my mother was on the landing
on the bottom saying michael,no, no, no.
And I remember it vividly, likeshe was luring me up, you know,
and that's all I remember fromit.
But then, years later, on myback, there's these three, one,

(17:29):
two, three deep scars, like mymom said one day I was getting
out of the shower, she's likewhat is on your back?
And I was like what do you mean?
And she's like it looked likescratch and they like I could
email you a photo of them it'slike they're like three, like
deep, and there's three.
You can make an argument for afaint fourth, but there's three

(17:50):
prominent ones and it's likedude, I don't know where they
came from, but if you, if you,when you see them, you're going
to be like okay, like there's noway that those could have
happened without you knowing howthey happened.
You know right.
What do you think, what do youmake of that?

Well, I mean, I've seen that before and
I think the biggest point tomake here about this particular
case study is that it'sreflective of what they're doing
with the experiencers.
Now, that case study is onethat you could have put it in
the UFO abduction phenomenon.
It could have put it in the UFOabduction phenomenon, it could

(18:23):
have put it in early demonology.
You could make it a near-deathexperience, an out-of-body
experience, because we trulydon't understand what's
happening during the dream state.
We don't.
Now there is evidence that I'vecollected, and also in
Stevenson, where, during thedream state and this is just
speculation to a degree, but thephysical evidence is there, but

(18:44):
for somehow the soul leaves thebody, in that they're doing
things to the soul that willthen manifest through the skin.
Case in point, and I say thisagain because people are going
to fall.
They follow my research.
I'm going to say, nathaniel,you talk about this all the time
, I do.
I don't say I do, but it's afascinating case study and it

(19:04):
demonstrates a pathology that Ithink is worth considering
anyways.
So this remote viewer's father,the son, came to me but his
father was a famous remoteviewer and he was going in and
out of his body, meeting hisguides.
They're all love and light,they're giving him prophecies
that he's getting famous for aswell as building wealth.
So he would go out of his body,he'd meet them and he'd go back

(19:28):
in and then he called like hey,listen, you know it's a popular
politician.
Hey, guy, you know you startpulling in this area of the
state and not the other one.
And so that's how he kind ofmade his money.
Well, one night he said thathis father went into a session
and out of nowhere, his fathercomes stumbling down the stairs.
He's incoherent, he's white asa ghost holding his chest.

(19:50):
Well, when they finally got himto the hospital, he had a
massive heart attack.
He nearly died, but as theywere ripping his shirt off, from
underneath his skin to thesurface there were three
religious sigils.
They were subdermal, moving tothe surface.

(20:11):
Now this is where demonologyfalls short, because they were
interreligious, cross-cultural.
So I've actually sentphotographic evidence of this to
various practitioners.
That I know, because I'm not apractitioner you guys know that,
right, I'm not, but I researchit and so I sent them some
photographs.
Okay, what is this?
They couldn't tell me, becauseit was some form of liturgy and

(20:35):
occult magic that transcendedeven what we know to exist in
this dimension, and yet theywere performing it on this man.
And yet they were performing iton this man.
Now, the relationship betweenthe soul and skin is is profound
, and I mean there have beencases with the new abduction
phenomenon, where we see thesame behavioral pattern, where

(20:58):
these people are abducted inthere, in there, like it's
almost like the astral body orin some kind of other form of
consciousness, and they gothrough the entire experience,
not realizing they're on a body,and then when they get back
into their body, then they havescoot marks, then they have
physical manifestation, and sowhat I'm trying to do now is

(21:22):
kind of make that connectionmore sound, because it's not
just you, brother, and I thinkhopefully that'll make you feel
better, because that would suckif it was.
What then he'd?

be like wait a minute, it's just me, well you
know you know, it's funnybecause I don't think those
appeared on my body until I waslike shit maybe maybe 20, 21
years old, which ironically wasafter my first heroin overdose,
which I was in a coma for fivedays.

So as you're saying that, I'm piecing
that in my head.

I'm like motherfucker, you know like oh
yeah.
Yeah, I got goosebumps, thatshit's crazy.

Well, it's a completely different concept
of reality, and this is whatgrieves me about modern
practitioners.
It's like, okay, yeah, therituals that they're giving you,
they, the practitionersthemselves, are thinking, okay,
you know, I'm gonna do this,like you know, solomonic magic,

(22:18):
I'm gonna create a circle andall this, and the beings will
never be able to get me.
And it's like, no, that doesn'twork.
This and the beings will neverbe able to get me.
And it's like, no, that doesn'twork.
Now, it works with thearchetype, but not with the
proto-intelligence.
When the true phenomenonmanifests, the practitioner
realizes very quickly.
I have no box to put this in,it's transcending every model I

(22:43):
have, and so this is why Ilecture.
When I england, I talked about,my lecture was called uh, the
mulcher is a species within.
But basically, what I wastalking about was because of how
many blind spots we as aspecies have.
We're under the impression thatwe're conjuring them, when it's
quite, it's very possiblethey're the ones conjuring us,

(23:05):
and it's the illusion of control, my friends, where, by the time
we build the altar, right, samething with Tim Taylor, right by
the time he goes out in thereinto the wilderness.
Okay, sure, you spent two and ahalf hours driving, building an
altar, blood, sweat and tears,and then he has the audacity to
tell us that he's the oneconjuring them.

(23:27):
No, so?
So what this means, though?
And this again, it plays intothe concept and model of the
phenomenon, guiding us through aseries of methodologies and
assumptions, literally allowingus to believe we have control.
And then, by the time we're inthe presence of the phenomenon,

(23:50):
it's exactly like the other, youknow, the older case where the
phantom takes the mask off, andthen now you're making eye
contact with something youdidn't even know existed.
And this is why I believe thatit's not just the alien
hypothesis.
We have to throw out even themodern demonic hypothesis.
Right, I've actually caught thephenomenon leaning into

(24:10):
archetypes that are not evenhistorically accurate, that they
have been a part of the zyatguys, literally a belief of pop
culture.
And yet, when it manifests, themalevolent hauntings, right, for
instance, the number three,right, how many times have we
heard that?
Oh, the three marks on the wall, that's the Trinity.
How do we know that?

(24:30):
And so there is this.
It's a profound manipulationgoing on, but this is just
another example of evolving inorder to evade, because if it
can manifest as a demon, then wedon't really understand what it
is, because the demonic it isleaning into is not historically
accurate.
This is making sense.

(24:52):
We're being manipulated.

That's dude, that's crazy.

I never thought about us being a
projection of them, you know oh,yeah, yeah, yeah that makes
sense, because think about allthe like shamanic practices and
cultures and ancient uh, youknow, like pagan stuff.
That would think about all theshamanic practices and cultures
and ancient pagan stuff.
They would be like oh, thenature spirits told us to make
this drink or whatever.
They told us to do this ritualto summon them or to talk to
them.

(25:15):
But that's exactly like yousaid.
It's kind of those spiritscompelling and controlling the
person and not the other wayaround Making it seem like oh
yeah, look, you're so smart, youfigured out how to summon me.

and like oh my, god, brother, there's a um
behind me.
There's a book called eros andevil and in that book, r-e-l,
r-e-l masters.
He talks about an albin jinxiananthropologist who was on the
trail of a particular potioncreated by his favorite witch.

(25:48):
So he spent I think it was thebetter part of a decade
traversing the planet, the world, looking for various
ingredients, and finally he gotthem all.
He fulfilled the rite.
He got them all.

(26:10):
He fulfilled the right, putthem all together, ingested it,
and then, when he got where hewas going, the entity said what
are you doing here?
What are you doing here?
I got chills now Because, again, it's this, and I've talked
about it before, but it's notjust that we're being seeded
with technology.
It's almost as if the phenomenonis implanting itself into the

(26:33):
tech and then seeding us withitself.
And so now we look at this andthink, oh, my God, right, we're
going to be so advanced.
And then it's like but yeah,what caused?
Because this, this is anotherbehavioral pattern that's
pervasive.
At a certain time of itschoosing, it will want something
in.

(26:55):
In the greater portion of thathas been blood, ritual, yep to
where, for whatever reason, it'snot.
Hey, listen, I can.
I borrow some money from you.
Right, can you go get me a 12pack of beer?
No, right, it's, it's not evengoing into.
Okay, we're from the future, wewant.
No, it's quite literallyretracing the footsteps back to

(27:18):
antiquity and say, hey, listen,this is where I want you to go,
this is what I want you to buildme, and in response I'll give
you what you want.
But, yeah, so all of this in mymind, even demonology and all
that it has come to bear, it'scentered around and at least

(27:41):
from my perspective now, inoverlordship to where I grew up
in the evangelical church.
It's like, okay, well, they'reall hordes and hordes.
It's like, okay, well, who'sperforming these rituals?
Because if these practitionersare performing rituals to
influence them, and they'reperforming rituals as well,

(28:06):
who's in charge of them?
And so it's kind of opened atleast my imagination, my mind,
up to a three-tiered concept ofreality, at least with respect
to what these entities are.

So do you have an idea or opinion on what
you think they are?

then, I think they're parasites and I
would suggest it's a lot likeit's it's primeval.
It's primeval like one of therings oh 100, 100, and they're
playing by different rules.
Oh, 100, 100, and they'replaying by different rules.

(28:50):
And so you know, like, like Isaid, they'll give us
incantations.
Oh yeah, here's a little bit ofa ritual.
And so, in the whole ritualitself, okay, I'll perform these
rights and then, by the timeI'm done, you then will.
You'll be forced to incarnate,it's like.
But that's not true, becausethey can incarnate anytime they
want to, right?
So what is what's the need fora ritual then, unless it is
essentially to bait people intoobedience?

(29:13):
It's right to walking the plankout into the murky darkness and
then, by the time they getthere, they pluck the one.
All right, here you go.
And so this is again, I meanoverlords, overlords, and of the
highest order, that havemastered laws about the occult

(29:33):
that we're completely ignorantof, even to the degree that,
even like the interfaces, theywill manifest as that which is
existing beyond the mask, right,the proto-intelligence looking
through the archetype.
It's following laws we don'tknow about, and they are.

(29:55):
And so, during this entireparadigm, it's it's one, okay, I
want you to do this, or, youknow, you do this with a symbol.
Meanwhile, that practitioner'sthinking oh, my god, this is the
best thing I've ever had.
And yet that entity right, it'salmost like it has policies and
belief systems that thatexperiencer is clueless.

(30:17):
And we've seen evidence of thatin demonology, right, where,
like there was one case in thethe debuk phenomenon in 16th
century, where one entity waslooking to haunt a woman and yet
he and he wanted to copulatewith her, and so she was
averaged up until the night shegot married.
Boom, boom, you know, bang,bang, bang.

(30:38):
It happens.
And then, in the middle of thenight, that entity comes
knocking.
And this is another area of myresearch that I'm going to
really dive into in the next,probably the next year.
I'm going to be opening upwhat's called Necronetics.
It's a combination ofnecromancy and genetics.
What this entity did, was itnot only pierced her, I should

(31:13):
say, but in the piercing of thebody there was an invasion of
consciousness To where there wassome kind of device that she
said okay, I felt it right, itfelt like an actual man.
You guys can edit this out, bythe way, if you have to, because
I know it's very dark, butthere was a correlation between

(31:41):
what she experienced sensuallyand then, but what was implanted
within her was theconsciousness of the entity that
had performed the assault.
And it's incredible becausethere's again.
It leaves us within thisparadigm of okay, is this
technology, or is this spiritual, or is this consciousness?
And yet at least these casestudies are implying that

(32:02):
they're almost the same.

I think you're definitely onto something
, that it is all the same, andthat's why I asked what you
think they are, because so manypeople will be like oh well,
it's reptilians, it's demons,it's fallen angels, it's it's
the, it's aliens, it's uh,whatever.
But I think it's very clear toanyone who's deep into
alternative thinking thatthere's a a non-human element
influencing our world andcontrolling it in a very big way

(32:26):
oh yeah, and so and this is sonecronomatics, for everybody's
going to be listening to this um, again, it's the combination of
necromancy and genetics.

Um, so if you took the entire field of
demonology and all that it'sbeen able to contribute.
We're looking at possessioncases, incubi, succubi,
scarifications, and sometimeseven Sinistrari, who's a
Franciscan priest, had victimsthat had amulets carved

(32:57):
underneath their eyelids.
Very sinister, nearly like aserial killer thing.
It's very strange.
But within all of thedemonological lore there is a
singular theme.
You have the succubus who comesto the man, harvests the seed

(33:18):
Okay, fine.
Then we have the incubus whotakes the seed that was
harvested, then he goes to thefemale and we talked about those
cases earlier right, all thecognitive interfaces went up,
and then it inseminates her, andthen so you take those concepts
and shelve it.
Then you get into modernity,and then we start hearing about

(33:39):
the missing fetus syndrome.
And so in my research I thoughtyou know, has there ever been
the missing fetus syndrome backin demonology?
And you know, we perhaps missedit.
And if we did in fact miss it,is it possible that it's perhaps
more demonic than it is alien?
And so that's when I kind ofretraced the steps.

(34:01):
What I realized was that theincubi, the succubi, the missing
fetus, possession of thepregnancy, are all intertwined
with a singular ritual ofreplication not found in ufology
, but found in demonology,specifically in the occult,
where the adept, the mage, wouldgo and inseminate a woman and

(34:26):
commandeer the body of the fetusas its own biological avatar.
And, by the way, by the way,the actual principles and
precepts are identical Find herwhen she's sleeping.
If she's not asleep, feed hersomething that will put her to
sleep, induce her into adreamlike state, check, check,

(34:49):
check, and then the child's bornin the and this is called the
red right, in the ultimate blackmass.
And then, okay, I, andliterally the, the magician says
okay, this is my body, and sothen you have the consciousness,
that's the new biologicalavatar.
Now, that's not me, that's.
That's essentially exactly whatwe have known to be demonology,

(35:12):
and so the only connectivity.
At a certain point, my research,the only thing I didn't have
was the correlation betweenpossession of pregnancy you guys
probably heard me talk aboutthis, right?
Maybe yes, and so at that pointagain, it's just another factor
, another piece of the puzzlethat makes me think okay, is

(35:34):
this all centered around theoccult?
And, if it is, are those powersmanipulating us now to think
that, oh my God, they'reextraterrestrial, because in
doing that now they get thebenefit of doubt?
Anyways, man, I ramble dude, soplease forgive me.

(35:58):
That's good.

I can't help.
If we're going to bring up theoccult, I can't help but bring
up Aleister Crowley.
What are your feelings on him?

Well, there's a lot of legend
surrounding that figure.
You know, was he the wickedestman in the world or the most
evil?
I mean, he was saying that injest.
People were heaping all kindsof rumors on him and yet, at the
end of the day, he wasentertaining dark forces that

(36:29):
even he had no control over.
And in fact, at the very end ofhis life, some people believe
that exactly what we're talkingabout now, the cult transference
took place between him and hisson, because he told everybody
I'm placing my consciousness inhim Shortly after his son began
to suffer delusions and paranoidschizophrenia, he again Crowley

(36:54):
was, and I understand what hewas trying to do.
I mean to a degree.
I mean, I have had friends thatgrew up in church in a very
strict religious household,friends that grew up in church
in a very strict religioushousehold.
And if they didn't likereligion and yet they were still
spiritual, a lot of them tendedto go into the occult because
they still had a desire to knowand they believed in something.

(37:17):
But with respect to evencrowley.
To understand crowley, you haveto understand people like
eliphas, levi you, and then youhave to go to a Bromel in the
Mage.
But with respect to Crowley,what we see with his you know
the Golden Dawn and all of thatis essentially bastardites that

(37:40):
were centered on the belief inGod, the oneness of God, purity
and holiness, specificallyBromel in the Mage.
And so some of what he wasdoing, most of it, was
essentially taking thoseincantations, deconstructing
them, reconstructing them andthinking, okay, they'll play by
the same rules.
And what really disturbs me themost is some of these
incantations, the way they werestructured, should have not even

(38:02):
worked.
Think about that, according towhat Eliphas Levi in Brhma Mimei
said, none of theseincantations should have been in
contact with angels, and yetsomething in the ether responded
.
And so this gets back to theprimordial man and the
phenomenon implanting right,implanting rituals, implanting

(38:29):
incantations into the mind ofthe practitioner to draw them,
and this is again who'sconjuring who here.
But this is what, and this issome of the research I've been
doing as of late.
It's like the tulpa, right?
We've always believed that thetulpa was a thought form, and so

(38:50):
what you have is the individualhas a thought in his head, that
thought as a form, and so theidea was that from the thought
form comes the form of thatthought.
The problem is the evidence issaying that the topo, whatever
you want to call that is notjust the thought form, it's the

(39:11):
entity forming that thought.
And this gets back intoantiquity, with the primordial
man stoking his fire at night.
Right, okay, I want you to gocarve the name of an unclean
spirit into a piece of metal andplant that into a corpse.
That is not us Phenomenonoffered the thought, and then
when that practitioner goes outand begins to obey and

(39:33):
demonstrate, suddenly thephenomenon says okay, fine, here
I am, so there is this again.
It's.
I think a lot of this doesstart out in the mind and then,
by the time the practitioneropens him or herself up to it,
the phenomenon has nowestablished itself and in a way,

(39:59):
it's like we're looking on thewrong side of a two-way mirror.
Do you think there are goodentities, or pretty much just
ones that want to manipulate anduse us?
There is something out there,dr, call a term.
She was working withexperiencers, her entire family,
including herself.
They were all being abducted byextremely sinister forces and

(40:22):
in an act of desperation, sheappealed to whatever was out
there.
That was good right, you canjust visit me.
I need encouragement.
They were threatening her andtelling her you are due for an
adjustment prior to her gettingcancer.
So she was going through all ofthis and she goes to bed and

(40:43):
it's just like every other night, or at least it seemed like
every other abduction.
Only this time this is thecraziest thing, she said I was
asleep, but I was also awake andthey had taken her.
Another intelligence, another,I guess, other beings, took her
out of her body and she said nowI'm sitting in a chair.

(41:05):
And she said the craziest thingabout it was I knew that my
body was in my bed, but I am ina physical, tangible chair and
I'm touching it like I'm right.
Boom, it's just like I couldfeel it with my hands.
And uh, she said there was likethis, these group of beings, uh
, that were in front of her,flanking her on the right and

(41:27):
left, almost, almost, like whatdo you call it?
Like the Supreme Court would.
And there was this screen behindthem and it was playing a scene
from the Bible and that waswhen Jacob and Esau go to their
father and Jacob does and stealsright the birthright.

(41:47):
And they play it over and overand over again.
They'll pause it.
They'll pause it, rewind it andplay it.
And she said I'm there for halfan hour and I'm going like what
is, what is this?
You know, carla, carla, drturner, you didn't see this
again.
Boom, replay it.
And it was the scene where youknow, the guy puts the, um, the,

(42:07):
what's it called?
I think it was the scene whereyou know the guy puts the what's
it called?
I think it was the camel skin,everything on him, the dad's
feeling oh okay, I'll give youthe birthright.
And so finally, they asked herlike what do you see?
She says, oh, you know, sheexplains it.
You know blah, blah, blah.
Okay, let's break it down foryou, dr Turner, there is a
species on your planet thatwants to steal your birthright.

(42:30):
It wants the planet for itself.
The way it's going to do it,it's going to appear as love and
light and, more importantly,it's going to appear as one of
you.
It's one.
It basically it's wanting tosteal the planet.
And so she said, ok, so you,you are good, like, you are

(42:51):
benevolent.
And they said, yes, we knowwhat's going on, but we want you
to know what's going on.
And then, it wasn't too longafter that, that she got cancer
and unfortunately died.
So do I believe that there areentities out there that are good
?
I do, but yeah, so I don't know.

(43:13):
I mean, obviously I do believethat, but you know, my research
has been set around the darkernuances.
Um, but that's where I'm at now.

Guys, you have obviously gone on a number of
actual on location case studies.
So I'm wondering, of actual onlocation case studies, so I'm
wondering what is the mostfrightening encounter or
experience that you've ever had?
Or if I guess, I'm assumingthat you've had one, I'm
assuming that you've had onewhat was like the craziest, most

(43:42):
intense one you've ever had?

Okay, so most cases are like you're there
for two and a half hours, youget like a couple of EPs.
Okay, so most cases are likeyou're there for two and a half
hours, you get like a couple ofvps.
This one was strange, uh,because it was a murder case and
I didn't know it was a murdercase.
So when I did the cleansingwhich I don't do them now
because I don't, you know, Idon't even know what they are
yet, so I had to kind of back upa little bit, um, but yeah, the

(44:08):
family had reached out becausethey were having paranormal
activity and when I got there Iactually saw where they had to
cut up the blood or cut up thecarpet from the blood.
I still, I had no frame ofreference, I wasn't reading
newspaper, I had no idea, and sowhat had happened was two
minors.
One of the daughters in thatfamily had conspired with a 15

(44:31):
year old from school and, uh,the 15 year old was stalking the
family and the husband, when Igot there, talked to him like he
had.
It was almost like to try togut him because he had a scar
from the top all the way downand they had stitched him up.
But I guess I don't know howthis happened, but I guess a tip

(44:54):
of a knife was broken off andthey didn't get it out, and so
it got.
It was really weird.
So the 13 year old wasconspiring with the girl she met
at school and this girl was 15.
And the father told me when Igot there he goes, goes,
nathaniel, he's like my wife andI both worked second shift.
He said so, you know, we're offwork, we're watching movies,

(45:16):
you know, at nighttime.
And he said we were at thatpoint.
We were aware our daughter wastalking to this girl from school
and he said that we hadinstructed her like we don't
want you to hang out with her,we get a bad vibe there's,
there's something different anddark about her.
You know we'd ask you to justleave her alone.
He said that that wasn'thappening.

(45:39):
And he said so.
The phenomenon, the paranormalphenomenon, started one night
when they were watching TV.
And he said I saw a movementout of the corner of my eye.
I look out the window, there'sthat 15-year-old girl staring at
him.
He said so.
We called the police.
Please get there.
She's long gone.
He said so.
A few months go by, our daughterhas basically locked herself in
the room while talk to us.

(46:02):
And he said again my wife and Igot off work, we're downstairs
eating food, watching a movie.
And he said my daughter walksdownstairs, opens the front door
.
Now this, you guys probably Idon't want you guys to get
demonetized, but she said that,um, the 15 year old came in and

(46:22):
she had a bandana over her faceand stubbed nose, scissors in
one hand, a knife in the otherand she was trying to kill
everybody.
And I said I'm telling you Icould feel the evil in the room
as he's talking and he goes.

(46:42):
Okay, he goes.
And the main reason I calledyou over here, nathaniel, is
because when she was stabbing us, there was a male, guttural
voice coming out of her talkingto us.
And he said we're pretty sureit was possession.
So unfortunately, the motherdid die.
And, uh, when I got there, theyhad like a bunch of the family
members there.
They wanted to cleanse thehouse.

(47:03):
Well, I did the cleansing andwhen I was done with the
cleansing, it was almost likesomebody turned the lights on.
It was so bright.
I had this on record on arecording where the family they
were freaking out, going aroundand wondering if somebody just
turned the lights on becausewhatever was there left.
Now, fast forward.
A few months later.
I'm at a restaurant.
Have you guys heard this yet?

(47:24):
I hope not.
No, okay, I don't want to berepetitive.
I'm at the restaurant, arestaurant, same restaurant,
same time, same seat.
I was when I got the originalmessage to reach out and there's
a woman and her husband aresitting on my left.
I'm reading Eros and Evil,ariel Masters, and I'm looking

(47:45):
at her and she keeps peekingaround her husband and I'm
thinking, okay, she's going toswitch seats.
And now I've got to like I'm'mgonna come up with another thing
.
I'm doing like I'm readingpoetry or something, because I
didn't want to have thatconversation with her.
So once we get into theconversation um, you know, I'm
researching.
This is what I call like lectureon my stuff.
She goes, okay, she goes, uh,like you have any cases.

(48:07):
I didn't go in too much detailat all.
It was actually less detailthan I went with you guys
tonight and by the time I wasdone, she goes.
Okay, you're Nathaniel Gillisand I'm not saying this so
people can say, okay, I'm notlike.
Oh, I'm somebody.
No, no, that's not what I'msaying at all.
I'm telling you the storybecause it's kind of freaky,
because I said well, how do youknow that she goes?

(48:28):
Because I was the social workerthat worked with both minors.
She said she goes to rememberthe time and there was a time
when they wanted me to go visitthe daughter at jail and jail
but the lawyers wouldn't let itand I was actually, I was
uncomfortable, I'm like I'm notdoing that.
But apparently what happened isthe night I did the cleansing,
she got a phone call the socialworker did from the jail and the
little girl was freaking out.

(48:48):
She said because the entity nowthis, this explains things the
entity that had been visitingher at night in her house, went
to her jail cell and said I canno longer be here, I no longer
have authority.
Now, weird, I took that and I Italked, talked to a

(49:08):
practitioner about that and Isaid like where do you?
What is this Like?
Can you explain this to me?
He said, yes, he's like.
I don't know what that was, hesaid, but it was almost like
there was some kind of consentor authority, obviously, that it
had over that girl and then,after it, did what it wanted to

(49:31):
do it's gone.

So it said I no longer have authority
after the cleansing.

Yes, very weird.
Now, what's even more, I shouldsay that not more interesting,
but the sister to the husbandcalled me.
It may have been, it was alittle bit before that instance,
but it was like two or threeweeks after the cleansing and
there was an atheist there, Ithink his name was Tommy, and

(49:58):
Tommy wants to talk to, or no,danny, danny wants to talk to
you and I'm like okay, and I'mthinking I'm about to get chewed
out or something, and Dannygoes.
No, he goes, you know, in afamily.
He.
And Danny goes.
No, he goes, you know, in afamily, goes.
Since that event he said he had, he had gotten the phone book
and called every preacher andevery pastor here in the Dayton
area and it was like trying totell them what happened.

(50:18):
But I don't know.
It's an interesting case study,but I don't know what it means.
I know, I experienced it and Iguess what stuck out to me the
most was it couldn't open itsown door.
It could, we know that, but forsome reason in this instance it
was almost like it had to havepermissive will.

(50:41):
And so, whereas the 13 year oldwould never have stabbed
anybody not prone to violence,the 15 year old would, but the
15 year old's not, on the insideof the house.
So it was almost like it wasmanipulating both that's nuts
that's absolutely crazy what doyou got in the works?

I know you, you, uh, you've authored two books.
Are you working on a third, or?

I know that's probably a monumental
task in itself yeah, I want tolean heavily to Necronetics
because I think that wouldexplain the Nephilim in a
different light, where thesebeings weren't just possessing
but there was pregnancy involved.
And so that's when I lecture, Itell people you know, pregnancy

(51:24):
to us is possession to them,possession to them is pregnancy
to us, and so it's a way theyself-replicate their species,
them, possession of them ispregnancy to us, and so it's a
way they self-replicate theirspecies.
So necronetics would be a hugeendeavor because I have to
collect each case study.
And then I'm wanting to dosomething I haven't done in a
while and that would be in-homeinvestigations, but not with the

(51:48):
focus on cleansing right, right, but as kind of an observer, an
observer where I say, okay, youknow, can you tell me what's
going on and collect any and allevidence.
Other than that, I'm going to bealso adding topomancy we kind
of covered it today, buttopomancy into the fold, because

(52:09):
I absolutely believe that someof the archetypes it's stepping
into, it's authoring and it'sfirst coming to us to see if you
believe in the image.
And if you believe in the image, you have to obey it, and that
my is the cognitive interface.
Do you believe I am yourhusband.

(52:32):
Yes, obey me.
Do you believe I am an angel?
Absolutely Okay, obey me.
And then, with the obediencethat entity, this intelligence,
begins to implement rules.
And so I'm after the rules andI'm after the proto intelligence

(52:55):
, the source got a couple things.

uh, one's kind of a question, one's more
of a comment.
Uh, so the necronetics, whatcomes to mind with that is like
when people say the abductionsrun in their family or
possession, or like familialcurses and and you mentioned the
Nephilim, like the elites thatbelieve that they're descended
from these bloodlines, and thesebloodlines that you know keeps
them to interface with theseentities and stuff, and that's

(53:22):
pretty much it, right.

Yeah, absolutely, and I think there's
truth in that.
Oh, absolutely.
So yeah, necrcromancy would be,would literally be OK, I, I am
dispossessing my body, or I meanthis gets back in the legend of
the unclean spirit too.
Right, I'm wondering.
Dry places seeking rest?
Why?
Because they believe the restwas in water, they were

(53:44):
underneath, I don't know.
But yeah, so necromancy wouldbe centered around the
self-replication of species.
See, within the debugphenomenon.
The demonologists realized thatthe entities were not just
impregnating the women, theywere possessing them, and that
these women were not justpregnant by the intelligence,

(54:05):
they were pregnant with it.
And that is literally why I'mreplicating myself, wherein that
entity chooses the host of theparasite and it's like okay, we
always were taught, especiallyin the ufology, the host is the
wife or the woman, right, thehybrid mother.

(54:26):
That's not true.
The host is the fetus.
Why do we know that?
Because it didn't take thehybrid mother.
That's not true.
The host is the fetus.
Why do we know that?
Because it didn't take thehybrid mother when possession
was done.
It took the fetus.
So that is necronetics.
And yet what I'm deeplyconcerned about brethren is and
I've done this before where I'vetripped over something,

(54:49):
something that they did not wantme to see.
And then at the end of the dayI get a knock on the door or,
like Dr Carla Turner, right, somany other researchers you know
like okay, you should have seenthat, you should have done that.
And then you know I disappearor something.

The other half is.
So you said that you stoppedwith the cleansings because you
don't feel like we fullyunderstand what that is or why
it's working.
And uh, my question is likewhat kind of cleansing, like
what kind of spiritual take onit are you having?
Are you like, uh, do youconsider yourself a Christian?
Or was it more like a Catholicexorcism thing, like what were
you doing?
I do lean on the Christianprinciples, you know.
Like uh, do you consideryourself a christian, or was it
more like a catholic exorcismthing, like what?

were you doing.
I do lean on the christianprinciples, you know, on
morality and whatnot.
I don't know that ourdemonology is complete.
I mean, you know, and that'swhat bugs me the most about the
modern field, is any and alldemonology that's being done,
it's all rooted.
Okay, this is our grandpa'sdemons, like these guys are just

(55:52):
still out there in thewilderness like, oh crap, you
know, is this guy cuttinghimself?
Let's go take him over?
And it's like no, no, no, no,it's.
It's deeper than that and someof their abilities transcend the
demonological model and I'mwilling, willing to admit that.
And that's why I suggest, right, that these are archetypes.

(56:14):
And let me dive deeper intothis for a fleeting moment.
I said this the other day onPaul St Clair's show Truth Proof
, where some people say, okay,well, you know the horns and
hooves.
Yeah, that's a social construct, correct, correct, but the
phenomenon manifested as hornsand hooves, right, see what I'm

(56:36):
saying why?
Because if the phenomenon cancreate physiological constructs,
that means that you and I canhave a conversation today and
that tomorrow, another me canshow up and begin to revise, use
revisionist history and say, oh, by the way, when he, when I
was talking about necromancy andall.

(56:58):
That's not what I really meant,and then quite literally take
out your concept of me andchange it do you believe like a
demon can mimic like you'd be?

in your house and like oh wait, was that
my mom and then your mom'sdownstairs or something like
that?

like fully manifesting oh well, there's one
case this is in beyond ufo is abook behind me where a little
girl awakens to the voice of hermother.
Come into the hallway, callsher by name, come to the hallway
, come to me, come to me.
And she's walking at nighttime,so you can imagine it's almost

(57:32):
something out of Sixth Sense,like it's freaky, it's almost
it's weird.
She walks out of the hallway,she goes towards the bathroom,
looks up, she hears her mother'svoice coming out of an entity
and her mother and her fatherare in the other room paralyzed
watching it happen.
So this gets back to thisconcept of if it can mimic a

(57:57):
parent.
For instance, dr Carla Turner.
She was abducted.
During her abduction, one ofthe communities told her I am
your mother.
We can take out that wordmother and place angel, ghost,
ancestor, guide, and the modelstill holds true.
And so now it's like okay, Idon't care what you want me to

(58:20):
call you.
Right, there has to be a betterway to vet you and your agenda.
So that's where I'm at.

Do you believe in spirit groups up, so that's
what I'm not.
Do you believe in spirit groups?
And if you do, do you believethat maybe deceased family
members or whoever, maybe in?

your spirit group can actually protect you
from, uh, evil spirits per se.
There are cases about that,know, I believe to a certain
degree.
The problem is this there areentities that could possibly be
formerly human.
There's somebody working withthem.
There's somebody performingthese rights, there's somebody

(59:12):
performing these rights, andthere are even case studies
where people are abducted andthey see the dead, to the point
where one individual case study,the individual didn't even know
the person and the oh yeah, I'mdead.
I died today still wearing theclothes the individual died in.

(59:35):
So, okay, another case studybehind me, beyond ufos, there's
an individual that um is a youngman.
He had a catastrophic caraccident.
He's pulled out of his body andhe meets these entities.
These entities tell him himyour body is mangled.
You do not have the abilityyour doctors at least do not

(59:55):
have the ability to save yourlife.
We do.
We will fix you up, put youback into your body.
You will live on one occasion.
What's that?
Okay, look, we want you tobecome our prophet.
We want to be able to call uponyou at the time of our choosing

(01:00:15):
, at which point you will do sayand go to where we want you to
go to.
Next thing the man knows hewakes up in his body.
So the possibility obviouslyexists that near-death

(01:00:35):
experiences some of them arereal, right, and that that there
are some good ancestors on theother side.
Okay, but we also have toentertain the possibility that
if they can, if they can mimicthe living, then they can also
mimic the dead.
And so, uh, do I believe it?
I don't know, I haven't seenevidence, at least to my
standard, of that that they'reon the other side helping us.

(01:00:58):
Um, me personally I haven't.
So I'm kind of on the fence, Idon't know.
You give me questions, I'm like, okay, long story long, and
then I work about it.

"$awbuck" Mike (01:01:10):
No, that's good, that's why you're here, man,
because you're the expert.
You know we're just, uh, we'rejust along for the ride.
You know they make a lot ofmovies about like the exorcist
is probably the most famous one.
Um, what are your, what areyour feelings on like the omen,
the exorcist and the supposedbased on true story kind of

(01:01:31):
demonology?

Nathaniel J. Gillis (01:01:33):
I get bored with them.
I find them at leastinteresting.
Personally, I'm more attractedto Dark City.
That and Tombstone are myfavorites.
But Dark City is more horrificthan the Exorcist, and here's
why because it's obviously amirror of gnosticism.

(01:01:56):
But in dark city there was aparasitic species that had not
just invaded host bodies butthat had invaded reality itself,
and and it was implantingmemories again, archetypes, into
the minds of our species.

(01:02:18):
And then, like for instance inthe movie, the lead character's
always looking for Shell Beach.
He knows us there, he's been toShell Beach.
They gave him an image of ShellBeach.
He's looking for it, can't findit.
Finally he climbs up thebillboard there's Shell Beach.
They gave him an image of ShellBeach.
He's looking for it, can't findit.
Finally, he climbs up thebillboard near Shell Beach and a
homeless guy stays up there.
He goes you looking for ShellBeach.

(01:02:40):
And the guy goes.
Absolutely, he goes me too.
And so the homeless guy hascollected thousands of
newspapers.
Boom, here you go, shell Beach.
Shell Beach flooded right,right, shell beach filled with
litter.
He goes uh, do you remembergoing as a kid?
I remember going.
Right, where is it?
Didn't exist.
The phenomenon had placed thearchetype, again, again in their

(01:03:03):
consciousness, causing them tobelieve in something that didn't
exist.
And in in that belief there wasthe orchestrating of events,
the moderating of human behavior, and, at the end of the day, it
could not even be traced toanything that was real.
This is what I'm talking aboutwhen we go into houses and we

(01:03:26):
see 666 and we see allegedlydemonic manifestations.
Right, it's demonic, demonic,okay.
Is it tied to the historicalrecord?
Or is it just like Shell Beach,another archetype that it's
leaning into that has no reallegitimacy facade.
So when people say, okay, arewe going to be invaded?

(01:03:48):
We already have been, and it'snot just, it's not okay, they're
going to be on the lawn of thewhite house.
No, it's the invasion ofconsciousness and the invasion
of reality itself do you believethe cryptid phenomena is
involved here too?

"Headhunter" Higgins (01:04:02):
is that just another manifestation of of
this?

well, I was talking to a guy earlier about
this on the sky.
Well, there is no doubt,physicality at least some to the
cryptid phenomenon, but thethere's also para physicality,
where it's coming in and out ofexistence and what we are left
with are scarifications ofsomething that was tangible.

(01:04:29):
Are scarifications of somethingthat was tangible?
Right, it's in one room andseemingly now it's in another.
Um, but whenever I'm asked,that question my mind, because
it goes back to this idea thatany and all archetypes it can
weaponize.
Not just, okay, I'm, no, I'mnot just interfacing with you,

(01:04:49):
I'm weaponizing this Becausewith that archetype there are
rules, behavioral patterns thatif you believe in that archetype
now, oh, okay, yeah, you're,you know, like the cryptid
phenomenon.
It's like, okay, skinwalkerRanch, you have Axelrod, who is
from the Pentagon.

(01:05:09):
He's researching the phenomenonthere, right, he's observing
more than anything and he feelssomething you know.
Hey, listen, I gotta get out ofhere.
On his way home he gets a phonecall from the wife freaking out
why there was a wolfman staringat her through the window.

(01:05:29):
Guys, it weaponized anarchetype.
Hahaha, it went right and so so, because my good friend is paul
st clair.
He's, he's, I'm, I think he'sthe leading cryptid researcher
in the world, because I I lovehim to death, plus he's really
good.
So it's I'm biased, buddy, buthe, I mean.

(01:05:50):
We always bounce these thoughtsback and forth Because it
wasn't just the archetype of thewolfman.
All the family, theyexperienced it Children, the
wife.
By the time the husband gotthere the next morning, they
collected photographic andphysical evidence where that

(01:06:11):
entity had claws and physicalityenough to scrape bark off of
the tree, but then he's gone.
Now this weaponization ofarchetypes is not just witnessed
in the cryptic phenomenon.
It's also witnessed inantiquity, with ghosts and
demons.
There's one paper I have infront of me by a guy named

(01:06:35):
Victor Doman, and he's talkingabout the Rephaim in Syria, and
it's essentially the samephenomenon.
Right, you build an altar, thephenomenon incarnates, gives you
something in return for worship.
Well, the phenomenon hadconvinced them.
This is incredible to meconvince them that if you don't
give us what we want, we willturn into the demons and scare

(01:06:59):
you instantly.
Right, you see it now it's.
Oh, that's an architect.
Okay, fine, I'm weaponizing it.
And.
And so then I was like allright, is it possible?
Right, that these practitioners, who maybe weren't good enough,
they weren't giving enough goodenough worship or the altar
wasn't built to their standards.

(01:07:20):
Is it possible that theseexperiencers were actually
witnessing what the phenomenonwas telling them Right?
Horns and hooves, ghosts,malevolence, and the next thing,
you know what are they writingin ritual bowls Against the same

(01:07:42):
entities?
It's commandeering entirefields of research in using
portions of belief in popculture to create a mask, and so
, where I'm at now and othersthat I've lectured alongside of,

(01:08:03):
we're at the point now whereit's not just allegory, it's not
just mythology, it's not justallegory, it's not just
mythology, it's not justFolklore.
All of that has been validatedby the scientific method, and so
now we know what are they.
We have no clue, but they canrearrange timelines and, uh,

(01:08:29):
that's what we're looking at nowreally interesting and I think
it's getting closer to puttingsome puzzle pieces together
hopefully man, we'll see bud,but I just got one more question
for you.

"$awbuck" Mike (01:08:41):
So there's obviously so you believe there's
a physical component to them,but they can maybe like shift
between physical and mental andethereal and they can do
whatever they want.
Essentially, right, I guess I'mtrying to get at is how long do
you think they've been here onEarth?
Like, did they precede us ashuman?

yeah, well, and I'm still not convinced
that these aren't formerly human, because some of the earliest
theories regarding the demonic,even with um for katie eliezer,
which was one of the elders injewish mysticism literature, he

(01:09:23):
said that the demons weremalevolent ghosts, that there
was, and again, people,especially the evangelical world
, and I grew up and, oh, they'renot ghosts, they're definitely
not ghosts.
Okay, fine, um, but let's godown that road for a fleeting
moment.
That would mean that some ofthese are mutated consciousness
where others evolve.

(01:09:44):
These mutated and in theirmutation, it's very it's not a
speculation very possible theywere recruited.
It's very and this is not aspeculation very possible they
were recruited.
It's very possible that theirvery practitioners were
discussing tonight.
I don't know, obviously I don'tknow, but I think that there is
enough evidence there to saythat they didn't originate in

(01:10:05):
the 1940s.
They've existed since the dawnof recorded history, or at least
since the very first humandeath became enable murder.
Yeah, so I don't know, guys,it's I mean again, with each and
every piece of the puzzle,you'd think we get an answer.

(01:10:26):
It's not.
It's more questions for real.

"$awbuck" Mike (01:10:29):
Yeah, yeah shit, unfortunately well, I lied,
because I I have anotherquestion, I guess where can uh
everybody find more of nathanielj gillis?

you can go to my instagram.
I'm on instagram more than I'mon anything else.
I have a youtube account.
You guys, there's a playlist.
You guys want to go to it thatare listening.
Um, there's a playlist of allmy guest appearances just on
youtube.
I think we're, I think I'm over100 or so, and so if you guys
go like to newest or oldest, youknow, depending on how you

(01:11:01):
filter it, you'll see theevolution of my theories, as you
know, started four years ago tonow, but, um, yeah, it appears
at least to be overlords of thehighest order.

Where can they find you?
What's the at?
So I'm going to add you in j orno.

Nathaniel gillis, my bad nathaniel gillis,
he's going there right now.
Sweet, I love it.
I love it, brother.

"$awbuck" Mike (01:11:27):
Thank you man he's writing it down.
I think, right, I'm typing itin.
Yep, oh, he's like yeah, he'sgoing all the way.
Man, you got anything else,buddy tom no, this is a great
episode.

I'm excited to follow some more of
your work.
I think you are definitelyputting some pieces together.
Like I said, there's there's somuch here and our community and
ways that we could think aboutit, and I think yours is kind of
really tying a lot of stringstogether thank you, brother.

It's uh, there for a while I was all by
myself.
And then, you know, I gotconnected with some researchers
in the uk that areparapsychologists and I gotta be
honest with you, you know I wasthere for a while.
I'm like, oh my god, like whyam I even doing this?
And then when they came withthe scientific method and say,

(01:12:15):
listen, this is what we found, Iwas astonished.
You know, it's one thing tohave a theory and then it's
another thing to be like okay,so all of this it's kind of real
, like it's legit, like thescience.
Yeah, it is.

I think we're in a spiritual war and
everybody could see it at thispoint Not everybody, but many.

Oh yeah, they're waking up, but thank you
guys so much for having me on.
I had a blast.
It went really fast.
I loved it, of course, greatone yeah.

"$awbuck" Mike (01:12:45):
No thank you so much, man.
I'm a big fan of your work.
Keep doing what you're puttinga lot of pieces together, making
a lot of sense.
So keep going, man.

Well, guys, thank you very much.
You guys have a good week, allright.

"$awbuck" Mike (01:12:59):
Nathaniel J Gillis, demonologist, ufologist.
I genuinely like how he isputting that, how he figured out
that it seems to be the samephenomenon and I mean it makes a
lot of sense, dude.
I don't know.
You know, I've never heardanybody lay out, lay out, a
theory like that before I guess.

Well, yeah , we've heard about uh you know
the whole aliens or demons andangels type of deal.
That's nothing new.
But uh, the way that he laid itout as a singular entity or
consciousness or something likelike sauron from lord of the
rings, appearing as all thesedifferent things and fucking
with humanity, I think thatthat's that's real, no doubt.

"$awbuck" Mike (01:13:46):
And I ate an edible.
Um, I ate some rso and anedible around seven o'clock, so
if my eyes look extra red, it'sbecause because of that and his
knowledge was hitting extra hard.
Yeah, yeah, there was timeswhen I was just kind of
mesmerized.
I think I heard the wordarchetyped about 409 times the

(01:14:09):
exorcism question.

I don't think he really got to it a
whole lot.
I kind of was curious to knowwhat he did.
Did he just like burn incense?
Did he do prayers?
Did he command demons?
Like maybe we'll have to gethim back on and talk more?

"$awbuck" Mike (01:14:22):
oh, yeah, yeah.
Well, I'm going to send him, uh, I'm going to email him, a
picture of my back, and thenI'll, uh, I'll, also say, hey,
you know, we'd love to have youback on because.

Cause.

"$awbuck" Mike (01:14:32):
Yeah, dude, I mean yeah, I mean I wanted him.
He seems like he knows he's gotpretty good recall with some of
these case studies, I guess so.
And some of these are just sostrange, like that one he said
about the girl walking out andher parents are watching it,
like come on.

Nah, I've never had sleep paralysis Hope
I've never had sleep paralysis,hope I never do.
But multiple girls I've datedhave and that shit is terrifying
.
I feel like I was about to haveit once and then I snapped
right out of it.

"$awbuck" Mike (01:14:59):
Yeah, I can't.
I've never had sleep paralysis,but when I was a lot younger
maybe like around the ages oflike 11 and 12, I slept, walk a
lot and I used to try to like goout of the house.
Isn't that weird?
Yeah, something else I used totry to like go out of the house.

Isn't that weird, yeah, yeah.
Something else I saw recently,definitely off topic, but Arby's
posting like fucking anIlluminati ad.
Like Arby's posting like anIlluminati pyramid with an eye
on the top, like we're seeingyou or we're back or something.
Did you see that?

"$awbuck" Mike (01:15:28):
shit, I did not.
What is it on their socialmedia?

Yeah, it's like a new rebranding of Arby's
or like a campaign of making amockery of Illuminati type of
shit.

"$awbuck" Mike (01:15:40):
Funny as fuck, I'm not a big Arby's fan.

No, me neither.
So that's why I'm like, ah,that's whatever, but it's still
weird that they're putting thaton fast food.
I mean, I guess it'sappropriate, but why, seems?

"$awbuck" Mike (01:15:53):
random.
Yeah, maybe they're, maybe theyhave new owners.
Maybe, Taking a differentdirection with the business you
know.

You know the Taco Bell symbols are
reptilian eye, is it really?
You'll never see it as that.
You'll never see it as anythingother than the reptile eye.
Now, once I tell people thatthat's all they see, really,
yeah, you got to look up theTaco Bell logo and tell me it
isn't a reptilian eye.

"$awbuck" Mike (01:16:22):
That's like the fucking FedEx, the fucking arrow
in it.
Once you find that arrow, youcan never unsee that
motherfucker.
You know.
You know what I'm talking about, right yeah of course In
between the Hold on what youknow what I'm talking about,
right?
Yeah, of course, in between the.
So, whatever, what were we justtalking about?
Taco Bell, yeah, that's it.
Sorry, edibles are kicked in,look it up Taco Bell logo more

(01:16:43):
RSO than I am right now images.
How is it the serpent okay?

it's like just a shot out of the eye yeah,
it is, that's crazy.

"$awbuck" Mike (01:16:54):
Now I there's a slit, it's like just a shot of
the eye.
Yeah, it is.
Huh, that's crazy.

You'll never not see that again.

"$awbuck" Mike (01:17:02):
That's so weird.
I'm not a big Taco Bell fan,but Not either.

I don't eat a lot of fast food in
general.
Someone said the McDonald thebig like arching M is in some
like black magic grimoire orsomething.

"$awbuck" Mike (01:17:15):
My kids actually are going to McDonald's right
now.
Call and tell them to turnaround now.
They don't have.
There's not many options aroundhere at this time of night.
I know but you're probablythinking it's.
That's ridiculous, because youcould probably literally get
anything you want right now at930 by you, but out by me.

(01:17:38):
Your options on a fuckingWednesday night in Plano,
illinois right now is you betterget to McDonald's before 11.
They will close and you couldget maybe some pizza from
Casey's.
That's it.
Well, for the next 36 minutesyou can get Burger King or
Culver's.
It's kind of rough.

(01:17:59):
Once 10 o'clock hits, though,forget about it.
There might be a pizza joint,uber Eats.
You might be able to find ajoint from Aurora that'll
deliver here.
On Uber Eats, they might beopen at midnight or something,
but that's it.
It sucks Midwest sometimes.
Yeah, it's definitely not likeit is by you, right?

(01:18:19):
I mean you could.
They're probably 24, 7, almosteverything right.
Yeah, checkers is really good.
I wish I had a checkers outhere, dude, because their fries
are the best, absolute bestnumber one fries culver's guy
for fries culver's has amazingfries, but
portillo's I think is evenbetter than culver's fries tier

(01:18:41):
list.
Let us know if that's what youwant to see see out there on
mcdonald's, even when they gotsome fresh fries.
They're good man, they're notmaking my top five I around with
fries, of course, I guessthat's the.
Uh, okay, that's the.
So check this out.
I was over at my my aunt, myuncle's house and my uncle had

(01:19:06):
never seen braveheart either.
Had my daughter.
So I was like, all right, we'regonna watch braveheart.
You know, because the firsttime I watched that movie was
like maybe 97, 98, a coupleyears after it came out, maybe,
and at that point I I thought Iwas, I thought I was italian and

(01:19:26):
english, only because that'swhat people had told me.
You know.
So when I watched that movieoriginally I felt so like
terrible and embarrassed to beenglish because of how
absolutely brutal they were, youknow.
And I've watched it a few timesin between, but nothing really
changed as I've gotten older.
Obviously it didn't hurt me asbad.

(01:19:47):
But so I watched it this, uh, acouple days ago, and with some
celtic pride I'm like, oh my god, like I'm crying and shit.
I'm like I'm like yeah.
I'm on the good side now, likeeven though they still get
brutalized.
But yeah, that's a good fuckingmovie it is sick, yeah.

(01:20:09):
Mel Gibson is pretty good dudeApocalypto.

He fucking directed that that shit was
amazing, apparently he wasviking movie that never came out
have you seen apocalypto?
No I haven't.

"$awbuck" Mike (01:20:22):
Are you for real ?
I've not ever seen it.
Okay, bro, so it's about.
Okay, I know what it?
Is, I just never watched it why, dude, that movie's really good
really good, fucking good.

You just gotta read.

"$awbuck" Mike (01:20:36):
That's the only problem.
But it's so good you don't evenrealize you're reading.

So kind of like he was gonna do a movie in
Old Norse.
It was all gonna be in like old, extinct Viking, germanic
languages.

"$awbuck" Mike (01:20:50):
And the weapons probably would have been
authentic, because the Mayanweapons were I think it was
right around the time when hegot like cancelled temporarily
did you ever hear, when he didhis appearance on Rogan years
ago, about his father?
I don't know, I don't thinkyeah well, I mean it was many
years ago.
He was trying to like rehab hisfucking public figure after

(01:21:15):
they blew away.
But anyway, nathaniel gillisanother good one in the books,
definitely can you imagine beingnine years old and literally
finding a fucking monster underyour bed like?

seriously every night?
Huh, I used to fear it everynight, but for it to actually
happen, yeah, it's wild yeah,you know what that reminds me of
.

"$awbuck" Mike (01:21:36):
Have you ever seen the movie with Fred Savage
Little Monsters?

also never seen with Howie Mandel.

"$awbuck" Mike (01:21:45):
He's like a monster demon from the
underworld, but he's like ahappy, friendly one and he takes
him under into this world withhim.
Nope, never seen it, oh my goddude.
Well, I'm like this is my lifeand he takes him under into this
world with him.
Nope, never seen it, oh my Goddude.

Well, I'm like sometimes I feel this is my
life though.
Have you ever seen Blank showmovie?
Whatever me.

"$awbuck" Mike (01:22:03):
No, come on, that's what I get from a lot of
people oh man, well, plus,there's an age difference too.
I think that probably matters,because that was like a rite of
passage for for my generation,you know.
So I get it, dude, like, whatdid you grow up like?

(01:22:23):
What were your?
What like when you were like 13or 14?
What was your shit?
Uh, slipknot, no, no, I meanlike tv, oh, dragon ball z.

fucking.
See, I was out of WWE but Ithen kind of More.
So I was starting to like theUltimate Fighter Frickin' what
else, dude, I guess.
Like cartoons and shit.
I liked fucking Beavis andButthead, the Simpsons, Jackass,
shit like that.
Bam, viva La Bam.

"$awbuck" Mike (01:22:57):
Oh man, I remember this.
Yeah, see, when I was like,that's like, when that shit was
hot, I was like I was alreadyolder, I liked that shit, I was
just older.
So when I was younger it waslike DuckTales not when I was 13
I would fucking be on the shortbus, but that's like, that was
fucking awesome.
And when I was really young, itwould have fucking been on the
short bus, but that's like, thatwas fucking awesome.
And when I was really young itwas like He-Man and shit.

(01:23:17):
And I fuck with the Smurfs too,because they're low-key, pretty
cool.
They were pretty awesome.
Except for what the fuck was hername?
The Lady Smurf Smurfette?
She had to be a hooch.
Just one female Smurf in awhole village of smurfs.
Never thought about that.

(01:23:38):
Something's happening.
Oh well, like subscribe, follow, share, do all that good.
Uh, two truth seekers on mostsocial media or all social media
platforms headhunter higgins,saabok, mike, uh, conspiracy and

(01:23:59):
chilicom.
I know there was a couplepeople that actually clicked on
the um contact us link and wereceived the fan mail, but we
can't respond to it.
So it's like, why the fuck we?
So?
Yeah, that's, that's thesituation what'd?

(01:24:20):
they say.
They said they heard us on thorand they want to do a collab
and I of course I want to getback to them.
So hopefully they will hearthis and hopefully they will
contact us via conspiracy andshe'll yahoocom so we can
actually reply to you.
So please don't think that weare just ignoring you.

(01:24:41):
Was there a sender info?
No, it's.
It was just, uh, like I'll sendyou, like I could show you.

It's just I think I know what you're
talking about just like a leave,a message, send to us something
, yeah, like if you.

"$awbuck" Mike (01:24:54):
It's so stupid dude.
It's like I even messaged likethe help desk at Buzzsprout, you
know, and I was like how do Irespond to them?
Thinking, you know, becauseit's sick, because the link says
send us a text.
So I'm like, okay, should wehold on and they're like no,
currently you can't, but thebest way is to shout them out in

(01:25:15):
an upcoming episode.
I'm like, really, that'sfucking very.
That seems like 1970stechnology.
Like listen to us tomorrow tosee if you won the contest.
You know, fuck man, it's 2024.
There should be way easier waysto talk to these people.
Here's your shout out out.

(01:25:36):
Thanks for the fan mail.
Yeah, well, actually, I thinkhe's got a show.
I think this person has a showand he wants to do like a collab
, so yeah, you can contact uswhere we can actually reply.
Yeah, obviously you'll know whoyou are.
So, and thank you, and toeverybody else, thank you as
well.
You could follow us on Patreonif you want become one of the

(01:25:56):
very first conspiracy and shellsyndicate members.
And uh, it's almost all I couldthink of.
When you eat edibles, how manymilligrams do you take?

I don't like to go over 20 or 30, what I
don't do them around anymore,but yeah, I don't.
I don't usually go over that atonce.
When I had covid, uh, and I wasat home just like so bored and
fucking, just gaming and gettingfrustrated at the game,
frustrated I was sick and I waswhatever, and uh, I ate 200
something, 220 milligramsthroughout like a couple hour

(01:26:29):
span, and that was terrible.

"$awbuck" Mike (01:26:31):
So I'm on 90 right now.

if it's spaced out well, I could see
that one being enjoyable, butthe 200 was just terrible.
No, I ate it all at once, ohman.

"$awbuck" Mike (01:26:41):
I ate it at seven.

but not only that, I've been smoking
like this thing too, and flourI've been on a hard weed smoking
arc again, so I think it's timefor another.
Quit Quit smoke, quit smoke.

"$awbuck" Mike (01:26:55):
I think it's time for another quit quit, quit
smoke, quit smoke.
I think it quits in order.
I used to uh, the only time Iused to have to like go on a
cycle like that is when I'd getarrested and I have to quit for
a little bit, then I'd get outand I'd be on fucking probation
and then I'd have to keep, youknow, because weed is a stays
sticks around every drug.
Which is funny, dude.
It's like the most cruel jokein the world.

(01:27:16):
You know you can blow cocaineall weekend, dude, and by
Wednesday you're good, you know,but whatever, alright, bro.
So yeah, stay away frompedophiles guitar solo.

Thank you.

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39 | Nathaniel J. Gillis | Demonology, Ufology, and Archetypes | "Corpse Pollution"

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.css-14f5ked{margin:0;word-break:break-word;display:-webkit-box;-webkit-box-orient:vertical;box-orient:vertical;-webkit-line-clamp:2;overflow:hidden;}39 | Nathaniel J. Gillis | Demonology, Ufology, and Archetypes | "Corpse Pollution"