January 25, 2024 • 51 mins
Dive into the rich dynamics of the construction industry through this enlightening episode of Construction Junction with your host, Tonya Schulte. Discover pivotal insights into workforce growth, development, and its alignment with accounting in the construction sector. This episode tackles the industry's daunting challenges such as the declining labor pool and the aging workforce. Learn about effective strategies like offering rewarding compensation, fostering a productive company culture, and tapping into the power of collaboration.
Be part of thought-provoking discussions with industry experts shedding light on compelling data trends and solutions to the current industry issues with Aaron Faulk of Moss Adams. Whether you're a seasoned veteran, a budding newbie, or an insightful advisor, enhance your perspective of the construction industry and explore potential growth arenas. Gain actionable takeaways that can be directly applied to your respective business.
Further explore the integral role of a robust company culture in attracting and retaining efficient employees in the construction industry. Understand the importance of a conducive, collaborative work environment, its impact on overall productivity, and how having a strong culture translates into a competitive edge in the industry.
Hear from the founder of Scott Coatings on his company's evolvement over 20 years, the rise in regulation measures, and the incorporation of modern digital practices into construction. Learn about the pressing need for workforce development strategies against the backdrop of an aging workforce and the over-emphasis on college education.
Wrap up with an inspiring discussion on current and future workforce development strategies, the power of collective insights, and the importance of a culture of continuous learning and development for long-term success. This episode is a must for industry leaders, visionaries, and anyone interested to unravel the multifaceted world of construction industry development strategies.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
(00:03):
The Profit Constructors presents Construction Junction, the junction between
accounting and construction.
Please welcome our host, Tanya Schulte.
Hello and welcome back to the next edition of the Construction Junction podcast. podcast.
(00:25):
I am your host, Tanya Schulte, and it's great to be back.
We took a little hiatus over the holidays, and I'm so glad to be back and discussing
the construction junction where construction and accounting meet with you guys again.
If you've been listening for any length of time, you probably know that I'm
also the founder of The Profit Constructors, where we do back office accounting,
(00:49):
we do bookkeeping, we do management accounting, we offer CFO services,
we do some workflow design,
anything that can help your back office run a little smoother.
That is our jam, specifically in the construction space.
Here in the construction industry, one of the things that the industry itself
has been talking about for a number of years, and recently it's really been
(01:13):
been heating up the conversation around this issue is workforce development.
What does that necessarily mean? Well, it means actually what it sounds like,
but bringing in new folks to work in the construction industry.
Who are those folks going to be? So in today's episode, we're kind of going
to dive into with a couple of both an industry expert, someone who's looking
(01:38):
into all these things, somewhat from the similar angle that we are here at The
Profit Constructors, right?
Someone who's just collecting data, watching trends and analyzing those sorts
of things. We're going to talk to an expert like that.
And also someone who, as we usually do, is what we would call the end user,
someone who works in the industry, someone who's involved in the day-to-day.
(02:00):
And it's so important, I think, and that's why this Construction Junction podcast
exists in the first place.
It's so important to really have both sides of that and to really have great advisors helping you.
But we advisors don't have anything
to advise on without the folks out in the construction space doing what they're
doing day-to-day and then bringing that data and information back to us so that
(02:25):
we can help you analyze it and so that we can help you build reporting and KPIs
around that and benchmarks and all of the things that go into us helping give
you better advice off of the day to day, right?
So there's this great marriage between the folks who are doing the work and
those of us who can free you up to go do more of that work while we're sitting
in the back office looking at the data,
(02:47):
analyzing the data and helping you understand what that data means.
And as we dive into discussing that with both our expert and our industry leader,
I encourage you to kind of think through, like,
what are ways if you're one of those advisors that's listening to this podcast
today, what are some ways that you can help and encourage and give good advice
(03:09):
and data back to your folks that you're working for?
Are there new ways that you can engage and do that?
And I would encourage you if you're one of those industry leaders like we're
going to hear from later in the podcast today.
Who are your advisors that you have around you? I think it's important to have
other industry leaders as your advisors,
but I also think it's important to have folks from other industries who have
(03:30):
a different set of skills and expertise looking in with you and being able to
take that sort of 50,000-foot holistic view of your business and then narrow
it down into what's maybe more their area of expertise and come at it from a
different angle than you ever can as the business owner.
So lots of really great things to talk about. But again, we're going to be talking
about workforce development specifically.
(03:52):
And we're going to dive in on what does that mean? Like, why is this such a hot topic?
And if you're in the industry, you know why you've been talking about it, I'm sure yourself.
And what are some ways that we can look at this maybe from some new angles.
And the goal here today will be for you to have some great takeaways of things
you can try new ways you can look at this hot topic and things you can actually
(04:16):
actionably do in your your business when we are done.
So with that, we'll take a quick break and we'll be right back to talk with our expert.
If you would like to share your company or product on the construction junction,
email hello at theprofitconstructors.com to become a sponsor.
(04:39):
All right, well, welcome. I am so glad to be joined today by one of the audit
partners at at Moss Adams.
And Aaron, tell us a little bit about Moss Adams and your role there.
Sure. So I'm up in the Pacific Northwest. I'm an audit partner at Moss Adams.
I work primarily on financial statements. And at our firm, we're focused on industries.
(05:02):
And so my industry that I'm focused on is the construction.
I lead our construction national practice for the firm. So that's across our
entire footprint. And I just love working with contractors.
How did you get into working with contractors? How did you become like the head
of the the construction department over there?
Great question. I kind of fell into it, to be honest. When I left school,
started in public accounting in our firm, the first couple of years you work
(05:25):
in several different industries, just getting a flavor for what you like to do.
And I started gravitating towards the construction practice.
I really enjoyed the people. I was always super impressed by what they were
building and how complicated they could take drawings and build these amazing
things and deal with all these challenges on the work side.
(05:45):
And just really enjoyed working with them, collaborating with them.
They were great to work with as far as clients and just kept working in that
space, meeting more and more of them.
And now most of my practice is contractors.
I love that. I have a very similar journey and path in terms of having always been in this industry.
And I will say all the time, I think one of the things that is my favorite about
(06:08):
working in this industry is that everybody here is just straight shooters, right?
They're very busy, they're in
a hurry, and they just need you to tell them things exactly how they are.
I think you got that nailed the two things i always
think about is they're very confident they can do a
lot of things on their own so they just want a little bit of help or some
direction and they'll take it and run with that and the second
thing that i've always really valued is it's a relationship business so most
(06:32):
of the contractors i work with i've worked with for many years and they've been
in the industry for many years working together with other contractors and you
know that they always are on job sites are working together to solve challenges
right things Things don't go exactly as planned on a job site every single day.
And the relationship's what keeps everybody connected and working together to get the job done.
(06:53):
And I've really enjoyed the long-term relationship with those clients.
Yeah, that's so well said. I love that. I have often said that that is the only
way that you can really focus on this industry is if you're in it for the long
haul and you want to build relationships with these guys. So that's very well said.
Love it. Well, we kind of said today we're going to chat about,
(07:16):
when you and I were kind of prepping for this, we're going to chat about workforce development.
I believe this is something that has been coming for a while that,
you know, everyone in the industry has been talking about the workforce and
workforce development, specifically in the construction industry.
Interestingly enough, there's been a lot of conversation about it in the accounting
industry as well. So here we are in the Construction Junction podcast where
(07:38):
all that comes together. other.
But tell me, in your opinion, kind of what are some of the biggest challenges
right now in the construction industry facing construction folks when it comes
to workforce development?
Yeah, it's something that we talk about a lot with our clients.
And as you hit on, a lot of the trade associations and industry is talking about this.
We have an aging workforce in the construction industry and that skilled labor,
(08:02):
when we specifically talk about skilled labor, that age, that average age is over 45 now.
And really what's happening is you have less people entering the trades than
are retiring from the trades.
And so that's a significant challenge for our clients to develop that next workforce
force of the future. And how do we get those folks?
In the United States, a lot of times people are focused on, hey,
(08:25):
I want to get a good job. And that means I go to college and I come out with a degree.
And we haven't spent enough time talking about how great the jobs are in the
trades and in the construction practice.
And so that's one of the biggest challenges. The follow on challenge from that
is when you have scarcity in the labor force, you have a bunch of competition there.
So you could be a firm that's a great developer of people and people are then
(08:49):
your competitors are looking and saying, how do I get those people over to my organization?
And so you see lots of different ways that contractors are trying to attract
talent from each other and then
also get engaged in how do we develop new people coming into the trades?
And so but biggest picture is just there is not enough people in the trades
(09:10):
for the demand that's out there. Yeah.
As far as like what Moss Adams is having these conversations with your clients,
are you guys having like conversations around, obviously there's a big piece
of this that affects accounting, right?
So what are we going to pay folks, right?
How are we going to attract them? What is that attraction cost, right?
(09:32):
Like there's a lot of just different pieces of this. What are you guys talking
about with your clients when it relates to all of that?
Yeah. I mean, the thing that Moss Adams brings is.
We're able to see a lot of different contractors and what they're doing.
And we're also engaging with the trade associations.
And so what we are as a cross pollinator, we're able to share kind of best practices
that we see across our footprint and across our client base.
(09:53):
And some of the things that we engage our clients in talking about is that compensation
is, you have to have competitive compensation in the marketplace.
That doesn't really even differentiate you very much. It's and expectation.
That's kind of the baseline.
And we do some things like we have a salary survey that we do,
or we basically take our clients,
(10:14):
we take anyone that will answer our salary survey, and we combine that information
into a report that all of our clients can look at and say, okay,
what really is that baseline for compensation?
And then from there, what we talk about is what differentiates you?
Why are people going to XYZ contractor versus another? other.
And oftentimes that's, that's the reputation of that contractor.
(10:38):
It's the ability to excel and grow.
So training and development, and then really huge factor here is culture.
What is that contractor focused on?
What is the connectivity within the organization? And then what,
what do they do outside the organization? What are they giving back to the community?
What are their ethos and values? What are they focused on?
(10:59):
And, and those things really differentiate when you, again, Again,
when we start with baseline, compensation's got to be right there with everybody else.
And then the differentiation point of who do I want to work for?
Who do I want to belong to?
Who are my people? Yeah.
I feel like, because we've been having these conversations with all the trade
(11:19):
organizations that we participate in as well, and you just hit on a word that
I've heard over and over again in the last several years called culture.
And one of the things that I've been arguing is that culture has always mattered.
It's just that it's more important than ever before because of the factors that
you talked about earlier.
We have fewer people actually even entering the workforce. So culture.
(11:43):
It didn't make so much difference whether we differentiated ourselves on culture.
But I do think that people always cared about that. I don't think it's something
that's brand new that people suddenly are like, well, I just want this.
I think that people always wanted to work for people that they liked,
right? People always wanted to work for people that they felt gave back to the community.
But employers didn't really have to differentiate themselves on that so much
(12:04):
in the past because there was a wider pool of resources.
I think that's a fair statement. I mean, I think back to what we talked about
earlier, this has always been a relationship business.
And so the relationship within the workforce or within the organization was always important.
I think that contractors understand how important that is to project out to the rest of the world.
(12:26):
I think it was like you said, I think it was always important within the organization.
I just think they talk a lot more about it. And when they go to try to win a
job or when they're trying to attract employees, they're talking a lot more
about their culture. And they spent more time defining what that is,
actually articulating it.
I always think about jobs that I would work on for our contractors.
(12:48):
I could tell five minutes into being in the office what type of organization
it was. Did people like each other? Did they collaborate?
All those type of things. I think that the contractors, like you said,
I've always thought it was important, but I think they really explain it to
others now and really define it better than they ever have before.
(13:08):
Yeah. Good point. What impact do you think that it can have on companies now
if they're not placing a great emphasis on things like culture and that type
of thing in terms of attracting people to their businesses?
Well, first, I think you experience a lot of turnover because there are options
(13:28):
for people to go elsewhere.
And I think it affects your productivity significantly significantly there on that side.
And then on the recruiting side, you're going to end up having to pay more or
do something to attract people when they have options.
And the culture isn't what is kind of the best culture out there or the best
(13:49):
organizations for people to join.
I think the biggest impact though really is retention.
Because when you hire employees, they aren't as productive as you need them
to be early on. You're developing them.
And so when you you lose them a year and 18 months into another organization,
that really hurts. That's when they're productive.
And from then on, that's when you're really making money on them.
(14:10):
And so it will be a significant drag on productivity.
So you mentioned something earlier, and I kind of want to dive a little bit
deeper based on what you just said about having this mindset of like developing employees,
that there's sometimes a fear that if we are taking all the time to develop
them, then they're going to just jump ship and go to the next place.
(14:32):
So what are some things that you see construction companies doing to,
to create that culture and to kind of really retain those employees that they've
taken the time to develop?
When we talk about the trades, I would say that a lot of that is what type of
organizations are we involved in outside of the business?
And so what are we focused on? What is our mission? How do we make an impact
(14:56):
on community and engaging the teams in that? that.
Now, when we talk about the trades, that's only one piece of a contractor, right?
So you have the other side of it where you have like the administrative side,
your project manager side, and you have like the estimators and folks like that.
Oftentimes there, we see a lot of competition as well.
And beyond the culture and the type of office environment that you have,
(15:20):
you also have compensation retention packages
where you're looking to incentivize people for
the long haul and that they'd be walking away from significant delayed
compensation if they
were to leave the organization and we spent a lot of time talking with
our contractors on that front because those high-performing project managers
they're on the job sites everybody knows who they are the general contractors
(15:43):
know the project you know the specialty subcontractors know everybody knows
who those folks are and they're in demand and so it's not just culture there
that keeps them And we're going to tie to an organization,
but it's also types of projects that get to work on and that compensation package
that has a delay element to it.
I love that. I'm actually working a lot with a gentleman that's like a coach in this industry.
(16:07):
And one of the things that he sets up early on with some of his clients who
are in the trades is the idea of like giving everyone within the organization
something to focus on is like, this is specifically who we are.
So not just like the mission, vision, values thing, but like really honing in
on, but like like individually within the organization, what do we want to give back?
And then collectively, what does that mean to us?
(16:28):
And I really love his vision for that.
Do you see a lot of the construction contractors that are successful in this
having that sort of like overall because you're talking about there's like the
guys that are out in the field and then there's everybody that's back in the
office and those higher paid, higher compensated, the estimators and project managers and things.
Do you see those companies that are successful at retaining having like the
(16:50):
same core cultural values across the board on both sides of the business?
Absolutely. Absolutely. And I think they spend a lot of time trying to connect
those two groups of people.
So they're not just one size here, one size over here, but they're working together
on projects to help the community outside of the business.
They're talking about the things that are valuable to the organization.
(17:13):
And they kind of what exactly what you said is they internalize that and say,
what is my role within this culture?
And what do I want to be known for within the broader group?
Route. Yeah, I love that.
What do you think could potentially, you know, do you think that this could
potentially be catastrophic for some companies as we look ahead?
(17:35):
And I'm not trying to predict anything, but if we are headed for some sort of
larger recession, could this be something workforce, particularly be something
that could be catastrophic for some of these companies if we do enter into a
recession, do you think?
Well, I think there's kind of two pieces to that puzzle that are danger areas
for contractors is the first is if you have difficulty retaining and developing people,
(17:59):
when you're in a very competitive environment, when you're bidding for jobs,
your estimators are making assumptions about productivity and the quality of the work.
And if you don't have the workforce to execute that, you can suffer significant losses, right?
So that's kind of the first and foremost piece that I see as a storm cloud for folks. folks.
(18:21):
The other side of that is in a recessionary type environment,
labor becomes more available, but if you aren't able to win those jobs,
you're going to lose people to other contractors that have those jobs, right?
So you have that danger of the people that you have developed,
if you can't keep them busy, you either incur losses to hold on to them until
(18:41):
you can get that labor or that job back up, that volume back up,
or you got to lose them to the marketplace.
So I think two storm clouds there and both of them kind of drive out of.
Labor can we keep our labor and do we have high performing labor yeah so almost
it can almost be like the perfect storm for a contractor in that in that situation.
(19:05):
When you guys are helping to sort of guide your
clients down the path of like what this looks like and again i know that like
i particularly and it sounds like you also are not just helping them from an
accounting standpoint but also giving them like advisory services you know helping
them look at their businesses holistically, if you will.
(19:26):
When you guys are doing that with your clients, what are some of the like,
I know you've mentioned a few things, but what are some of the things that you
guys will sort of give some advice on when it comes to attracting, retaining?
What are like some specific areas of advice that you would give that someone
that's listening today could say, oh, that's something I could try or do?
Yeah, I think the first thing I I would say is the best in class contractors,
(19:49):
if you will, are engaging their entire organization and saying, what is valuable to us?
How do we get feedback to say, here's what I think sitting in the office,
I think our culture is, is that in alignment with the rest of our organization?
So that's the first thing I would say. The second thing I would look at is,
what are we doing to participate in the trade organizations?
(20:11):
And what are our people doing to participate in the trade organizations,
what kind of feedback do we get there?
We already talked about this is a tight-knit community what is our reputation
so if i'm talking with other contractors i'm talking to the sureties i'm talking
to the cpas people that know the industry what's the reputation of our organization
and is that in alignment with our vision so a lot of this comes back to what
(20:35):
is the feedback that we're getting from our people.
If we're in a union environment so we've got collectively bargained for labor
oftentimes there there's a reputation out there from the labor unions of here's
the great contractors to work for.
Here's people that are consistently pushing people back to the hall or consistently
(20:55):
having trouble with their labor side.
And what does that tell us about our organization? So I think being really well
aware of how we're viewed by our people and by the outside really gives us a
lot lot of information about where we want to be.
That's a great, great point.
How many of your clientele are actively engaged with trade organizations?
(21:18):
I would say all of our significant contractors are involved in something,
whether they're, if they're an electrical contractor, they're typically very
active in like a NECA or mechanical contractor association.
If you're a general contractor involved in the AGC, that's, you know,
the CFMA is really more of an organization for your finance people so that that
(21:39):
isn't necessarily going to engage you as much with the field folks,
but it's great for your finance teams to be involved.
There is an organization for pretty much any of the contractors out there that
they just need to start looking and saying, where are our peers at?
Where are the folks that we work with at and making sure that they're engaged
in those organizations?
(22:00):
I love that you mentioned that. It's a subject that's near and dear to my heart.
I sit on the board for our local American Subcontractors Association down here in Phoenix.
And I'm always fascinated by when I get the pushback, well, no,
I don't want to engage in the trade organization because I feel like that's
where the people are that are stealing my employees, which I always think is
a really fascinating way to look at that.
So I'm really glad that you're saying that you guys have a lot of clients that
(22:23):
are participating in that.
To that point, what other reasons would you encourage folks to get involved
in those trade organizations for?
Because I love the idea of that being a perfect place to have that sort of barometer of reputation.
But I think there's a lot of other reasons to get involved as well. For sure.
I mean, number one, I think those organizations do a great job of giving back to the communities.
Oftentimes there's scholarships, there's different charitable events that they're
(22:46):
participating in. There's also networking opportunities there. there.
It's interesting that you said that comment about, I don't want to be involved
because my competitors are there.
Most competitors and most organizations aren't spending time in places that
they aren't getting value.
And so if you're, if your argument is, I don't want to be there because my competitors are there.
They, the question you should be asking is what are they getting that I'm not
(23:09):
getting and how are they getting a leg up on me? I understand.
And there are some contractors that would say like, I don't want to have to
play nice with all these people because I see them and then we have to be friendly at lunch.
And the next thing I know, they're
offering my top employees some kind of compensation package to steal them.
I get that view of the world. But I think there's so much more to trade association
(23:31):
than just interacting with your competitors that you could get out of it from
an education, from a community, all those different aspects.
Yeah. Actually, the gentleman that was the president of our board up until last
year, one of the things that he says, he actually was of that mindset for a number of of years.
And that when he joined, he found that he got so much added value from learning
(23:52):
from his peers that he stopped thinking of them as competitors and sort of thinking
of them as people that he could bounce ideas off of,
that he could, you know, learn from all those types of things.
So, yeah, he just found so much value by being a part of that group. So I love that.
Well, let's take a quick break, Erin. And when we come back,
we'll bring in someone that you work with who is in the trades and we'll find
(24:13):
a little bit of a different perspective on all this, but we'll be right back right after this.
(24:45):
Think of it as a cross between a mastermind and support group for financial
types that you didn't know you needed.
So if you're looking to build better construction clients as you build a better
accounting business, give us a try.
All right. I am Tanya here in the Construction Junction podcast,
your host, and I am welcoming back for our last segment, Aaron from Moss Adams.
(25:09):
Thanks for joining us again.
And we're going to bring into the conversation now, Rob Scott,
the founder of Scott Coatings. Rob, tell us a little bit about Scott Coatings
and how it was founded and what you guys do.
Yes. Well, thanks for having me on. Yeah. Scott Coatings was founded 20 years
ago. I was working for another contractor, paying my way through the University
(25:31):
of Washington, doing a very similar thing that we do, just on a much smaller scale.
And when I graduated, I wanted to do a lot of bigger projects, and they didn't.
So our visions didn't align. And so I left Scott Coatings 20 years ago,
and now we do work in two states, bidding in four states.
(25:53):
And yeah, it's been a lot of fun, quite the journey over the last 20 years.
Yeah, congratulations. That's a great journey and a cool career path. Something really cool.
So we're talking about this workforce development thing. You've been doing this 20 years, Rob.
First of all, what changes have you seen when it comes to the workforce over
(26:15):
the last 20 years? Oh, my gosh.
We were just talking about this last week with our safety manager.
When we started, I don't even think PPE was required on all job sites like it is.
I mean, I think we wore hard hats on jobs that were like shell and core jobs,
but not on interior tenant improvements, maybe safety glasses for subgeneral
(26:38):
contractors. And it was just now it's required across the board on all job sites.
And we have a safety manager full time that mandates what we're going to wear.
So that's been a huge change. The use of technology, we had paper everything,
daily reports, EWA's, time cards.
Now, I don't even think we use paper on any of our projects,
(27:01):
regardless if the general contractor requires it or not. So that's been a huge
shift and the use of social media.
That's been great. Our employees want to take pictures of projects,
share it on their Facebook or Instagram.
People talking on LinkedIn. That's been a huge shift. I mean, that didn't exist.
(27:22):
I feel old. That's why my kids always call me old, I guess.
I love that last bit that you mentioned because it's something that is,
again, in terms of workforce development and this idea of an aging workforce
that Aaron mentioned in our last segment. it.
It's something that we're talking about a lot. Like I said, I sit on the board
for the ASA and we just recently brought on someone who's like the director
(27:45):
of membership and marketing.
So her whole goal is to go out and help find members.
And that's one of the things that she brought up is that while maybe some of
the folks that own these construction companies are not necessarily even on
social media, a lot of their workforce is.
And so that's one place that we need to be reaching into and making sure that
we're tapping into the place where the folks that are doing the work are actually
(28:09):
hanging out as well. So that's a really good point.
So Rob, you know, you were able to listen in on what Aaron and I were talking about.
What do you think? We're just going to ask you the same question that I asked
Aaron. What do you think is like the number one problem facing contractors these
days when it comes to workforce development?
Yeah. I mean, we have a ticking time. They talk about it in every industry.
(28:33):
I mean, I mean, ours is just as much or maybe more so than everyone,
but 50% of our entire workforce is going to retire by 2030.
I mean, that's a big number.
There's a big pool of people coming from construction management into the office, so that's great.
But in the fields, it is. It's a big problem.
People aren't entering the trades as fast, so we have to figure out how to overcome that. And I...
(28:58):
Though challenging, I think it's something that is the fault of owners and people
talking about how the best way to create a future is going to college.
And I went to college myself and I paid my way through college in the trades,
but I don't think that's the best way for everyone.
I think we set people up for failure or unhappiness.
I mean, more and more people, we just had our safety manager.
(29:22):
Manager her and her husband both went to central
washington got their degrees in safety and went
to work for a big general contractor she works for us now and he
went back in the trades he's like i don't want to sit at a desk every
day and i know at least 10 people that have done that
same thing and so he paid his
way through college and he has debt now and now he went back in the trades when
(29:45):
he could have avoided that debt so i mean there's more and more posts on linkedin
every day about the path of to $100,000 once you become a journeyman without
any debt in the matter of, depends on, I guess, the trade,
two to five years. I mean, that's a great income.
And we don't tell kids that graduating high school.
And that's a shame because if they're good with their money,
(30:07):
they can have a great pension fund.
They can invest in a few rental properties and produce financial freedom for their family.
So why not do that? I just don't think that's talked about bad enough.
Yeah, I agree. It's something that at the ASA, we talk about a lot.
And one of the things that we've
talked about is finding ways to actually reach out to parents, right?
(30:29):
Because if we still have a group of parents who believe that the way that they're
setting their children up for success is by getting them into college, we have to start there.
We can't just try to grab the kids out of high school because if they're being
told a different story by their parents, that's not going to help.
We have to be able to get this message out to parents.
Rob, specifically, Specifically, how do you, how are you guys addressing some
(30:50):
workforce issues within Scott Coatings?
Yeah, we post a ton on social media.
So when we post on Facebook and Instagram, the primary purpose is to just engage
people who may want to come to work for us.
It's not for business development.
It's to attract people about what the construction industry is like and what's
(31:13):
it like working for us. So letting people know that it's cool.
And I think that's undervalued and not communicated very frequently.
So that's a big thing that we do.
And then also as a union contractor, our people are required to wear a certain
uniform and they're required to pay it for themselves.
So once people come here, we give them shirts and we give them one pair of pants every quarter.
(31:38):
And that may not seem like a big deal, but $45 times four times a hundred some people.
I mean, that can add up, but we want to let them know is we value you.
And I think a lot of the times work in any industry, whether construction can
be very transactional and it's like you're a number, work really hard and you
(32:02):
should be grateful for a paycheck.
And I love what Aaron said is getting a paycheck, a salary, that's the base level.
No employer should be rewarded for making payroll on Friday.
And trust me, I've been scared about payroll many times over 20 years.
But I don't celebrate that I made it. Like that's the base duty that I have.
(32:24):
So we have to find ways to show that you're valuable and we care about you.
Thank you for being here.
So whether it's swag, pizza parties, different things to engage our people,
and then also giving them a career path.
So if you're in the field, making sure you can see that if you want a pathway
to a foreman, a superintendent, or in the office, you can do that and we show you how to do that.
(32:47):
But I think a lot of people don't do that because it takes work and it takes time to create that.
So that's something that we do also.
I love that. I kind of want to tie it back around into how this all like to
make bring things full circle.
When you're talking about, you know, what you're giving to your employees in
terms of ways to make them feel valued and giving them that swag.
(33:10):
And, you know, I don't know, and we can dive into this a little bit if it's
something you do, if you guys have like retirement programs or different things that you do.
Two, how much engaged are you like with your accounting folks and the folks
over at Moss Adams in terms of like how this affects the bottom line and then,
you know, getting feedback from them on things that they're seeing, as Aaron said earlier,
(33:30):
like how much are you engaging with the accountants to say, OK, what can we afford?
What are best practices? All that kind of stuff.
Yeah. So one thing that Moss does that is great is that annual salary benchmark.
So I get that. I review that. We have a tool called Compies that lets us go
out in the workforce too and just compare what we're paying to the workforce to see if we're high,
(33:55):
medium, or low so we can make sure we're always watching those trends in our own office.
And then every year after audit and review, we sit with Moss and they go through
the benchmark of best-in-class contractors. And so we see where we're at.
Are we lagging? Are we in the middle? Or are we leading the way?
And what do we have to do to make sure we stay there?
(34:17):
And one thing that can be scary, I think, is putting money aside for investing in your people.
And that's something that my goal is 1% of every dollar goes to investing in our people.
And that's a big number. And especially the union contractor,
(34:38):
it's paid for by the union, but there's still things we have to do to help our
people make sure that they're successful here.
So looking at those types of things, and they do great. I've called Aaron many
times just to get his thoughts about different things.
So from his worldview of where he's at with other contractors and giving me
feedback on what I'm doing, what may not be right.
(35:01):
It's nice to have a sounding board so you're not alone with your own thoughts,
what's working, what's not working.
Yeah, that makes a lot of sense.
As Aaron and I were chatting earlier, Rob, as we talked about some of the workforce
development things, so anything we chatted about, whether it's workforce development,
being a part of a trade organization, what were some of the things that came
(35:23):
to mind that you would like to know that you think maybe, Scott?
And again, I know you've been around 20 years, but I feel like every business
has room for improvement, right?
What are some questions that you would have around, like, what are still some
ways that we can do this better?
For, from you, from Aaron? Erin? Yeah, either way, just mostly from Erin.
He's the expert here. I'm just here to facilitate the conversation.
(35:45):
Yeah, it's what I want to know is from our accountant and professional we work
with, what are you seeing that other people are doing exceptionally well that we're not doing?
That is something that I want to know all the time and to know,
okay, maybe it's something that I can grow into or maybe it's something I never thought of.
(36:06):
Erin, how do you answer those those questions when they come in from clients.
Where are you diving in to help them see what they are doing and where they can grow to?
Well, I think Rob touched on it. One of the things we do is benchmarking.
And so looking at just that benchmarking, but it goes well beyond that, right?
And Rob touched on this. It's engaging with our clients throughout the year
(36:26):
with no agenda meetings.
A lot of times it's just, hey, what is going on in your business?
What are some of the challenges that you're facing?
Getting a flavor for what's going on on the business, Rob touched on this before, but.
From a promotion perspective, they have great swag. I mean, there are people
where their stuff out and about.
I see that anyone who's only listening to this while Rob was talking about that,
(36:48):
Aaron was holding up one of his Scott coatings. How they absolutely have great, great stuff.
And Rob touched on this too, that people are super proud about what they do
and celebrating a really cool projects or really great design or delivery type things.
Those are things things that I can't emphasize enough of being proud of what
(37:11):
you do and being proud of who you are is super important.
And so when, when clients, I don't usually go into a client with an agenda and
like a checklist of like, what are you doing for your workforce development?
Are you, do you have great swag? If so, why don't I have any of it or any of
that kind of stuff? It's more of right. And I get that hat.
That's right. Or that sweet North face coat. I need one of those.
(37:34):
Is that it really comes back to what, what are you seeing in your business and
what are the challenges that you're seeing day in, day out.
And then oftentimes I can go and
say, well, here's how I've seen other organizations address this issue.
And I would say in a, in frequent, but sometimes in a,
I would say it happens probably five or six times a year, where I'll hear something
(37:54):
about another contractor through the org, through the the organizations I'm
involved with and just say, Hey, here's a, here's a point of light for you of
what I'm hearing out in the industry,
whether, whether this is true or not, you should know what this, what this sounds like.
So you can either address it or it may be really great news where like,
(38:15):
Hey, people say this is the best contractor to work for in this space.
Keep it up. But my job again is to say, what, what am I seeing out there?
What are best practices I can pass along?
And then listening to our clients and saying, what are you dealing with?
And how can I share insights of, I don't come up with any of this stuff really on my own.
It's what I see other organizations doing really well. That's awesome.
(38:39):
The things that you guys, oh, sorry. I think my microphone might be doing something
weird. You guys hear me? Okay.
All right. I think I've adjusted it now. Sorry about that. Rob,
what are some things that you guys might be thinking about changing or,
or something new that you guys may be thinking about implementing when it comes
to workforce development to address some of the challenges that we've already talked about?
(39:00):
Yeah, I think, let me get to that. But I think engaging in trade organizations,
you and Aaron are going around that.
And you said, you both have heard a lot of people don't show up to those because,
well, I don't want to be there because someone might steal my people.
I think that's crazy. Because one, if you've worked in this for a long time,
you can build some really great friendships.
I mean, it's like competitive sports.
(39:22):
Sometimes Sometimes you compete with someone and sometimes they end up on your
team and sometimes people go to your team, but at the end of the day,
it's sometimes you win, sometimes you lose.
So why not get to know the people in your markets? Because then you get to know the people who...
Aren't great and what aren't they doing that are great because you can
learn a lot from that and you can learn the people who are really great and
they can sharpen you so i think you just want to be
(39:43):
really aware of that because like asa is a really good one
i'm the president of the washington chapter it's invaluable
in our trade organizations too so make sure that you're engaged with those organizations
because it's priceless say it louder for the people in the back okay Something
that we're starting that's new for us that has been a year and a half in the works,
(40:09):
and it's through getting to know a contractor.
We are trying to figure out how to create the right development program.
So when someone, the union helps someone from an apprentice to a journeyman,
and then we have to figure out what's the right way to help them become a foreman.
Like, okay, they're a lead painter, and then they become a foreman.
And we have different things that we've done over the years,
(40:31):
but I found a company out of Texas and it was invaluable.
And I reached out to me. They're a huge, huge company. So they have a whole
workforce development team.
And I reached out to them. I saw their foreman training online and I said, hey, can I use this?
And she's like, yeah, no problem. And she sent me the entire copy of how to
become a lead and then how to become a foreman.
And we just started talking over the years.
(40:53):
And this was about three years ago that I met her. And we were having a problem on all of our jobs.
We're required to have someone that as the point person, the foreman,
they can speak and write in English.
Wow, this has become a growing problem for us. And so I reached out to her.
I was like, hey, what do you guys do about this?
(41:13):
And she said they have partnered with local colleges there in Texas to create
ESL classes. And I was like, well, that's amazing.
I don't know how to do that there. So she put me in touch with the person that
helped them develop that program.
And now they're one of the leaders at Tyson Foods, a huge company.
And so he put me in contact with him and his name is Anson.
(41:37):
That was a year and a half ago. And he has helped us put together a program
that will launch in April for a local partnership that we did with a local community
college to do ESL classes at our,
in our training room after work two days a week.
And we'll do it four quarters every year for all of our field,
for anyone who wants to come. It's free.
(41:58):
We just asked that they commit to two nights a week. And we'll provide dinner for them.
And our hope is that by us investing in them as a person, not because it's going
to help make us more money, but because we care about you.
And if we help you become a better person, maybe you can talk to the teachers
(42:19):
at your kid's school better. Maybe it'll be easier when you go grocery shopping,
negotiating your mortgage deal.
You're going to become more valuable and excited about living life.
And in doing so, hopefully, you'll remember where you learned that,
and you'll produce over the long term with us.
And you'll have a chance to become a foreman and a superintendent,
(42:39):
and you'll make more money, which is good for your family.
So that's something that we've decided to do and trying to figure it out.
It's hard. I thought we had to do it on our own, but because of trade organizations,
there's got to be someone that has an answer. And they did.
I didn't know how to do it. And she connected me with someone that did.
So that's been something that I'm really excited about.
(43:02):
Now, I haven't done it. So it's like one of those things when you have a party
at your house and you're invited a bunch of people and they just hope everyone shows up.
So we're getting ready to launch it in April. So knock on wood, it goes great.
And it's something that we can continue for a long time. But I'm excited that
watching this unfold over the last year and a half of hard work putting together behind the scenes.
(43:23):
That's really exciting. First of all, congratulations for bringing that to fruition.
I'm super excited. And I want you to report back. I really, I want to hear how
this goes, Rob. Okay. I want to know what's going on with that once you guys get it going.
We have a gentleman who's the former president several years back of our local ASA chapter.
His name is Mike Brewer, and he started here in the Phoenix area,
what he called Brewer University.
(43:44):
And he basically, instead of
hiring guys and just trying to help them get developed out in the field,
they brought the guys in, and don't quote me on this,
but I think they brought them in for nine nine months of just training in a
training center and bringing them up to speed on how to do plumbing and then
how to like fill out the paperwork that brewer companies wanted filled out and,
(44:08):
how to interact when you're on the job site.
Just all the things that he wanted everybody that would come to work for him
to know and then would graduate them out of the program and send them to work on his cruise.
And when he first started doing it, all of his foremen were like,
we don't want those guys on our jobs because they haven't been on a job site.
They were just very much against it. And he just slowly kept pushing it out there.
(44:31):
And it really became where his foreman started saying, as soon as those guys
have graduated, I need a few more for my crew.
So it just really grew into something amazing for them and was a catalyst for
them growing their business beyond his wildest imagination.
And it was all about just saying, you know what? But I'm tired of the way that
the workforce development old patterns have been going.
(44:53):
We're going to have to come up with something entirely new and do something
we've never done before. And they just tried it.
That's awesome. And I think you mentioned something that is something people
in the office, Aaron made a reference of not having to be office and field and
creating this bridge between the two.
And I think sometimes the office people or superintendents can create a problem
(45:16):
in workforce development because of this is the way it's always been.
And they don't want new people on their projects because they slow things down.
And yes they slow things
down because they don't know how to do it
and so our project manager we have to tell them
all the time is like if a production rates not being hit it's like well let's
(45:37):
encourage them like are they learning something new because just know if we
take the time to develop them they're going to get faster over time yeah it's
just like learning how to type you're really slow it is finger-punching you
do it long enough you're gonna get faster So we have to encourage people to be,
it's okay to go slow as long as you learn how to do it right.
(45:57):
And same thing with our foreman is like, you want new people. Someone taught you.
So make sure you're reciprocating that and giving it back to our industry so
we don't lose that. that.
That's something that business owners, people in the office,
and the superintendents have to remind everyone is bringing new people in is
hard. It will slow down production.
(46:19):
It will slow down the jobs.
But if you show them they're valuable and they're learning a new trade is worth
it and you're worth it to listen to them and take time to care for them,
they're going to want to come back and they're going to want to work for you
and stay with your company for the long term so you get the value that you put inside of them.
Yeah, I agree with that. One of the things I think I mentioned earlier that
(46:40):
I'm working with a great new coach who is a coach in the trade space.
And one of the things that he talks about, and I mentioned it a little bit earlier
about having this whole idea of like everybody on the team being in this collaborative space.
And to your point, Rob, one of the things that he has them do is sit everybody
down and they come up with a term that everybody wants to be called.
And every company is different and it takes a while sometimes to get everybody on the same page.
(47:04):
But when they finally like land on this term, so actually our team has done
it. So our team, we like to be called the advocates, right? Because we like
to advocate for our clients.
But some of the his clients have come up with things like superhero
right and so one of the things then that they're
able to do collaboratively then as a team is
when they're faced with a superintendent who's kind of getting
(47:24):
a little bit grumpy about something like that they'll say well well you really
look like a superhero out in the field if you're
behaving this way towards the new guy right like if you're truly the superhero
superheroes help the underdog come up right so So just having this word that
they've sort of collaborated on to come up with for themselves about how they
want to be viewed just helps the whole team to come around to that idea, right?
(47:48):
And just say, hey, you know what? We're all going to be the superhero today
and help the new guy learn something new that he's never learned before.
So I love that kind of thing.
Erin, I would love to know if there's anything new that you learned today or
something new that you're interested in taking out of this discussion?
Yeah, I mean, there's a couple of things that, you know, some of the stuff that
(48:11):
Rob was doing, I didn't, I had no idea that he was working on the ESL side.
And I think that's a fantastic idea because that's not something unique to him
in our marketplace that something I would encourage other folks to get involved with.
I feel like there's three or four things I want to follow up with each one of
you on on of just, Hey, what are you doing in this area outside of this call?
(48:33):
And, and who are your contacts for this?
So just love the idea. And I thought Rob said super well of we're investing
in the individual and it doesn't necessarily need to have a straight line correlation
with Scott coatings or with whatever contractor it's I'm for you and when,
(48:54):
when people believe that you're for them and we see that in most albums all
the time, we're are very intentional on our coaching.
And quite frankly, a lot of people leave Moss Adams and they go out into the accounting world.
And I have a choice there of, of if I invest and do a great job for them,
there are oftentimes clients that come back on the backside.
And what Rob said is so true that if he invests in people,
(49:15):
their loyalty and their willingness to go the extra mile for Scott coatings,
or even if there are somewhere else out in the business world,
they'll always be loyal to the organization because you're loyal to them.
That, that is is super impactful.
I love that. Rob, what about you? Something new that you learned today in our discussion?
Just a reminder of how important conversations like this are.
(49:36):
Sometimes we can get so busy and work every day that we have to get our tasks
done so we can be home and be with our family and loved ones.
But taking time like this isn't something that is going to slow us down.
It's actually something that's going to propel us forward.
And to the degree that you invest in something, it's to the degree that you're going to get back.
(49:57):
But it's hard to remember that when you're in the middle of just go, go, go. go.
So these conversations are invaluable. So thank you.
I love it. Yeah. Thank you guys both for joining us today. I really appreciate the discussion.
You're welcome. Thanks for having
us on. Thanks. Yeah. Thanks for the collaboration. That was a lot of fun.
(50:18):
Thank you for tuning in to Construction Junction. To find out more about the
junction between accounting and construction, please email hello at theprofitconstructors.com.
The Profit Constructors presents Construction Junction, the junction between
accounting and construction.
Please welcome our host, Tanya Schulte.
Hello and welcome back to the next edition of the Construction Junction podcast. podcast.
(00:25):
I am your host, Tanya Schulte, and it's great to be back.
We took a little hiatus over the holidays, and I'm so glad to be back and discussing
the construction junction where construction and accounting meet with you guys again.
If you've been listening for any length of time, you probably know that I'm
also the founder of The Profit Constructors, where we do back office accounting,
(00:49):
we do bookkeeping, we do management accounting, we offer CFO services,
we do some workflow design,
anything that can help your back office run a little smoother.
That is our jam, specifically in the construction space.
Here in the construction industry, one of the things that the industry itself
has been talking about for a number of years, and recently it's really been
(01:13):
been heating up the conversation around this issue is workforce development.
What does that necessarily mean? Well, it means actually what it sounds like,
but bringing in new folks to work in the construction industry.
Who are those folks going to be? So in today's episode, we're kind of going
to dive into with a couple of both an industry expert, someone who's looking
(01:38):
into all these things, somewhat from the similar angle that we are here at The
Profit Constructors, right?
Someone who's just collecting data, watching trends and analyzing those sorts
of things. We're going to talk to an expert like that.
And also someone who, as we usually do, is what we would call the end user,
someone who works in the industry, someone who's involved in the day-to-day.
(02:00):
And it's so important, I think, and that's why this Construction Junction podcast
exists in the first place.
It's so important to really have both sides of that and to really have great advisors helping you.
But we advisors don't have anything
to advise on without the folks out in the construction space doing what they're
doing day-to-day and then bringing that data and information back to us so that
(02:25):
we can help you analyze it and so that we can help you build reporting and KPIs
around that and benchmarks and all of the things that go into us helping give
you better advice off of the day to day, right?
So there's this great marriage between the folks who are doing the work and
those of us who can free you up to go do more of that work while we're sitting
in the back office looking at the data,
(02:47):
analyzing the data and helping you understand what that data means.
And as we dive into discussing that with both our expert and our industry leader,
I encourage you to kind of think through, like,
what are ways if you're one of those advisors that's listening to this podcast
today, what are some ways that you can help and encourage and give good advice
(03:09):
and data back to your folks that you're working for?
Are there new ways that you can engage and do that?
And I would encourage you if you're one of those industry leaders like we're
going to hear from later in the podcast today.
Who are your advisors that you have around you? I think it's important to have
other industry leaders as your advisors,
but I also think it's important to have folks from other industries who have
(03:30):
a different set of skills and expertise looking in with you and being able to
take that sort of 50,000-foot holistic view of your business and then narrow
it down into what's maybe more their area of expertise and come at it from a
different angle than you ever can as the business owner.
So lots of really great things to talk about. But again, we're going to be talking
about workforce development specifically.
(03:52):
And we're going to dive in on what does that mean? Like, why is this such a hot topic?
And if you're in the industry, you know why you've been talking about it, I'm sure yourself.
And what are some ways that we can look at this maybe from some new angles.
And the goal here today will be for you to have some great takeaways of things
you can try new ways you can look at this hot topic and things you can actually
(04:16):
actionably do in your your business when we are done.
So with that, we'll take a quick break and we'll be right back to talk with our expert.
If you would like to share your company or product on the construction junction,
email hello at theprofitconstructors.com to become a sponsor.
(04:39):
All right, well, welcome. I am so glad to be joined today by one of the audit
partners at at Moss Adams.
And Aaron, tell us a little bit about Moss Adams and your role there.
Sure. So I'm up in the Pacific Northwest. I'm an audit partner at Moss Adams.
I work primarily on financial statements. And at our firm, we're focused on industries.
(05:02):
And so my industry that I'm focused on is the construction.
I lead our construction national practice for the firm. So that's across our
entire footprint. And I just love working with contractors.
How did you get into working with contractors? How did you become like the head
of the the construction department over there?
Great question. I kind of fell into it, to be honest. When I left school,
started in public accounting in our firm, the first couple of years you work
(05:25):
in several different industries, just getting a flavor for what you like to do.
And I started gravitating towards the construction practice.
I really enjoyed the people. I was always super impressed by what they were
building and how complicated they could take drawings and build these amazing
things and deal with all these challenges on the work side.
(05:45):
And just really enjoyed working with them, collaborating with them.
They were great to work with as far as clients and just kept working in that
space, meeting more and more of them.
And now most of my practice is contractors.
I love that. I have a very similar journey and path in terms of having always been in this industry.
And I will say all the time, I think one of the things that is my favorite about
(06:08):
working in this industry is that everybody here is just straight shooters, right?
They're very busy, they're in
a hurry, and they just need you to tell them things exactly how they are.
I think you got that nailed the two things i always
think about is they're very confident they can do a
lot of things on their own so they just want a little bit of help or some
direction and they'll take it and run with that and the second
thing that i've always really valued is it's a relationship business so most
(06:32):
of the contractors i work with i've worked with for many years and they've been
in the industry for many years working together with other contractors and you
know that they always are on job sites are working together to solve challenges
right things Things don't go exactly as planned on a job site every single day.
And the relationship's what keeps everybody connected and working together to get the job done.
(06:53):
And I've really enjoyed the long-term relationship with those clients.
Yeah, that's so well said. I love that. I have often said that that is the only
way that you can really focus on this industry is if you're in it for the long
haul and you want to build relationships with these guys. So that's very well said.
Love it. Well, we kind of said today we're going to chat about,
(07:16):
when you and I were kind of prepping for this, we're going to chat about workforce development.
I believe this is something that has been coming for a while that,
you know, everyone in the industry has been talking about the workforce and
workforce development, specifically in the construction industry.
Interestingly enough, there's been a lot of conversation about it in the accounting
industry as well. So here we are in the Construction Junction podcast where
(07:38):
all that comes together. other.
But tell me, in your opinion, kind of what are some of the biggest challenges
right now in the construction industry facing construction folks when it comes
to workforce development?
Yeah, it's something that we talk about a lot with our clients.
And as you hit on, a lot of the trade associations and industry is talking about this.
We have an aging workforce in the construction industry and that skilled labor,
(08:02):
when we specifically talk about skilled labor, that age, that average age is over 45 now.
And really what's happening is you have less people entering the trades than
are retiring from the trades.
And so that's a significant challenge for our clients to develop that next workforce
force of the future. And how do we get those folks?
In the United States, a lot of times people are focused on, hey,
(08:25):
I want to get a good job. And that means I go to college and I come out with a degree.
And we haven't spent enough time talking about how great the jobs are in the
trades and in the construction practice.
And so that's one of the biggest challenges. The follow on challenge from that
is when you have scarcity in the labor force, you have a bunch of competition there.
So you could be a firm that's a great developer of people and people are then
(08:49):
your competitors are looking and saying, how do I get those people over to my organization?
And so you see lots of different ways that contractors are trying to attract
talent from each other and then
also get engaged in how do we develop new people coming into the trades?
And so but biggest picture is just there is not enough people in the trades
(09:10):
for the demand that's out there. Yeah.
As far as like what Moss Adams is having these conversations with your clients,
are you guys having like conversations around, obviously there's a big piece
of this that affects accounting, right?
So what are we going to pay folks, right?
How are we going to attract them? What is that attraction cost, right?
(09:32):
Like there's a lot of just different pieces of this. What are you guys talking
about with your clients when it relates to all of that?
Yeah. I mean, the thing that Moss Adams brings is.
We're able to see a lot of different contractors and what they're doing.
And we're also engaging with the trade associations.
And so what we are as a cross pollinator, we're able to share kind of best practices
that we see across our footprint and across our client base.
(09:53):
And some of the things that we engage our clients in talking about is that compensation
is, you have to have competitive compensation in the marketplace.
That doesn't really even differentiate you very much. It's and expectation.
That's kind of the baseline.
And we do some things like we have a salary survey that we do,
or we basically take our clients,
(10:14):
we take anyone that will answer our salary survey, and we combine that information
into a report that all of our clients can look at and say, okay,
what really is that baseline for compensation?
And then from there, what we talk about is what differentiates you?
Why are people going to XYZ contractor versus another? other.
And oftentimes that's, that's the reputation of that contractor.
(10:38):
It's the ability to excel and grow.
So training and development, and then really huge factor here is culture.
What is that contractor focused on?
What is the connectivity within the organization? And then what,
what do they do outside the organization? What are they giving back to the community?
What are their ethos and values? What are they focused on?
(10:59):
And, and those things really differentiate when you, again, Again,
when we start with baseline, compensation's got to be right there with everybody else.
And then the differentiation point of who do I want to work for?
Who do I want to belong to?
Who are my people? Yeah.
I feel like, because we've been having these conversations with all the trade
(11:19):
organizations that we participate in as well, and you just hit on a word that
I've heard over and over again in the last several years called culture.
And one of the things that I've been arguing is that culture has always mattered.
It's just that it's more important than ever before because of the factors that
you talked about earlier.
We have fewer people actually even entering the workforce. So culture.
(11:43):
It didn't make so much difference whether we differentiated ourselves on culture.
But I do think that people always cared about that. I don't think it's something
that's brand new that people suddenly are like, well, I just want this.
I think that people always wanted to work for people that they liked,
right? People always wanted to work for people that they felt gave back to the community.
But employers didn't really have to differentiate themselves on that so much
(12:04):
in the past because there was a wider pool of resources.
I think that's a fair statement. I mean, I think back to what we talked about
earlier, this has always been a relationship business.
And so the relationship within the workforce or within the organization was always important.
I think that contractors understand how important that is to project out to the rest of the world.
(12:26):
I think it was like you said, I think it was always important within the organization.
I just think they talk a lot more about it. And when they go to try to win a
job or when they're trying to attract employees, they're talking a lot more
about their culture. And they spent more time defining what that is,
actually articulating it.
I always think about jobs that I would work on for our contractors.
(12:48):
I could tell five minutes into being in the office what type of organization
it was. Did people like each other? Did they collaborate?
All those type of things. I think that the contractors, like you said,
I've always thought it was important, but I think they really explain it to
others now and really define it better than they ever have before.
(13:08):
Yeah. Good point. What impact do you think that it can have on companies now
if they're not placing a great emphasis on things like culture and that type
of thing in terms of attracting people to their businesses?
Well, first, I think you experience a lot of turnover because there are options
(13:28):
for people to go elsewhere.
And I think it affects your productivity significantly significantly there on that side.
And then on the recruiting side, you're going to end up having to pay more or
do something to attract people when they have options.
And the culture isn't what is kind of the best culture out there or the best
(13:49):
organizations for people to join.
I think the biggest impact though really is retention.
Because when you hire employees, they aren't as productive as you need them
to be early on. You're developing them.
And so when you you lose them a year and 18 months into another organization,
that really hurts. That's when they're productive.
And from then on, that's when you're really making money on them.
(14:10):
And so it will be a significant drag on productivity.
So you mentioned something earlier, and I kind of want to dive a little bit
deeper based on what you just said about having this mindset of like developing employees,
that there's sometimes a fear that if we are taking all the time to develop
them, then they're going to just jump ship and go to the next place.
(14:32):
So what are some things that you see construction companies doing to,
to create that culture and to kind of really retain those employees that they've
taken the time to develop?
When we talk about the trades, I would say that a lot of that is what type of
organizations are we involved in outside of the business?
And so what are we focused on? What is our mission? How do we make an impact
(14:56):
on community and engaging the teams in that? that.
Now, when we talk about the trades, that's only one piece of a contractor, right?
So you have the other side of it where you have like the administrative side,
your project manager side, and you have like the estimators and folks like that.
Oftentimes there, we see a lot of competition as well.
And beyond the culture and the type of office environment that you have,
(15:20):
you also have compensation retention packages
where you're looking to incentivize people for
the long haul and that they'd be walking away from significant delayed
compensation if they
were to leave the organization and we spent a lot of time talking with
our contractors on that front because those high-performing project managers
they're on the job sites everybody knows who they are the general contractors
(15:43):
know the project you know the specialty subcontractors know everybody knows
who those folks are and they're in demand and so it's not just culture there
that keeps them And we're going to tie to an organization,
but it's also types of projects that get to work on and that compensation package
that has a delay element to it.
I love that. I'm actually working a lot with a gentleman that's like a coach in this industry.
(16:07):
And one of the things that he sets up early on with some of his clients who
are in the trades is the idea of like giving everyone within the organization
something to focus on is like, this is specifically who we are.
So not just like the mission, vision, values thing, but like really honing in
on, but like like individually within the organization, what do we want to give back?
And then collectively, what does that mean to us?
(16:28):
And I really love his vision for that.
Do you see a lot of the construction contractors that are successful in this
having that sort of like overall because you're talking about there's like the
guys that are out in the field and then there's everybody that's back in the
office and those higher paid, higher compensated, the estimators and project managers and things.
Do you see those companies that are successful at retaining having like the
(16:50):
same core cultural values across the board on both sides of the business?
Absolutely. Absolutely. And I think they spend a lot of time trying to connect
those two groups of people.
So they're not just one size here, one size over here, but they're working together
on projects to help the community outside of the business.
They're talking about the things that are valuable to the organization.
(17:13):
And they kind of what exactly what you said is they internalize that and say,
what is my role within this culture?
And what do I want to be known for within the broader group?
Route. Yeah, I love that.
What do you think could potentially, you know, do you think that this could
potentially be catastrophic for some companies as we look ahead?
(17:35):
And I'm not trying to predict anything, but if we are headed for some sort of
larger recession, could this be something workforce, particularly be something
that could be catastrophic for some of these companies if we do enter into a
recession, do you think?
Well, I think there's kind of two pieces to that puzzle that are danger areas
for contractors is the first is if you have difficulty retaining and developing people,
(17:59):
when you're in a very competitive environment, when you're bidding for jobs,
your estimators are making assumptions about productivity and the quality of the work.
And if you don't have the workforce to execute that, you can suffer significant losses, right?
So that's kind of the first and foremost piece that I see as a storm cloud for folks. folks.
(18:21):
The other side of that is in a recessionary type environment,
labor becomes more available, but if you aren't able to win those jobs,
you're going to lose people to other contractors that have those jobs, right?
So you have that danger of the people that you have developed,
if you can't keep them busy, you either incur losses to hold on to them until
(18:41):
you can get that labor or that job back up, that volume back up,
or you got to lose them to the marketplace.
So I think two storm clouds there and both of them kind of drive out of.
Labor can we keep our labor and do we have high performing labor yeah so almost
it can almost be like the perfect storm for a contractor in that in that situation.
(19:05):
When you guys are helping to sort of guide your
clients down the path of like what this looks like and again i know that like
i particularly and it sounds like you also are not just helping them from an
accounting standpoint but also giving them like advisory services you know helping
them look at their businesses holistically, if you will.
(19:26):
When you guys are doing that with your clients, what are some of the like,
I know you've mentioned a few things, but what are some of the things that you
guys will sort of give some advice on when it comes to attracting, retaining?
What are like some specific areas of advice that you would give that someone
that's listening today could say, oh, that's something I could try or do?
Yeah, I think the first thing I I would say is the best in class contractors,
(19:49):
if you will, are engaging their entire organization and saying, what is valuable to us?
How do we get feedback to say, here's what I think sitting in the office,
I think our culture is, is that in alignment with the rest of our organization?
So that's the first thing I would say. The second thing I would look at is,
what are we doing to participate in the trade organizations?
(20:11):
And what are our people doing to participate in the trade organizations,
what kind of feedback do we get there?
We already talked about this is a tight-knit community what is our reputation
so if i'm talking with other contractors i'm talking to the sureties i'm talking
to the cpas people that know the industry what's the reputation of our organization
and is that in alignment with our vision so a lot of this comes back to what
(20:35):
is the feedback that we're getting from our people.
If we're in a union environment so we've got collectively bargained for labor
oftentimes there there's a reputation out there from the labor unions of here's
the great contractors to work for.
Here's people that are consistently pushing people back to the hall or consistently
(20:55):
having trouble with their labor side.
And what does that tell us about our organization? So I think being really well
aware of how we're viewed by our people and by the outside really gives us a
lot lot of information about where we want to be.
That's a great, great point.
How many of your clientele are actively engaged with trade organizations?
(21:18):
I would say all of our significant contractors are involved in something,
whether they're, if they're an electrical contractor, they're typically very
active in like a NECA or mechanical contractor association.
If you're a general contractor involved in the AGC, that's, you know,
the CFMA is really more of an organization for your finance people so that that
(21:39):
isn't necessarily going to engage you as much with the field folks,
but it's great for your finance teams to be involved.
There is an organization for pretty much any of the contractors out there that
they just need to start looking and saying, where are our peers at?
Where are the folks that we work with at and making sure that they're engaged
in those organizations?
(22:00):
I love that you mentioned that. It's a subject that's near and dear to my heart.
I sit on the board for our local American Subcontractors Association down here in Phoenix.
And I'm always fascinated by when I get the pushback, well, no,
I don't want to engage in the trade organization because I feel like that's
where the people are that are stealing my employees, which I always think is
a really fascinating way to look at that.
So I'm really glad that you're saying that you guys have a lot of clients that
(22:23):
are participating in that.
To that point, what other reasons would you encourage folks to get involved
in those trade organizations for?
Because I love the idea of that being a perfect place to have that sort of barometer of reputation.
But I think there's a lot of other reasons to get involved as well. For sure.
I mean, number one, I think those organizations do a great job of giving back to the communities.
Oftentimes there's scholarships, there's different charitable events that they're
(22:46):
participating in. There's also networking opportunities there. there.
It's interesting that you said that comment about, I don't want to be involved
because my competitors are there.
Most competitors and most organizations aren't spending time in places that
they aren't getting value.
And so if you're, if your argument is, I don't want to be there because my competitors are there.
They, the question you should be asking is what are they getting that I'm not
(23:09):
getting and how are they getting a leg up on me? I understand.
And there are some contractors that would say like, I don't want to have to
play nice with all these people because I see them and then we have to be friendly at lunch.
And the next thing I know, they're
offering my top employees some kind of compensation package to steal them.
I get that view of the world. But I think there's so much more to trade association
(23:31):
than just interacting with your competitors that you could get out of it from
an education, from a community, all those different aspects.
Yeah. Actually, the gentleman that was the president of our board up until last
year, one of the things that he says, he actually was of that mindset for a number of of years.
And that when he joined, he found that he got so much added value from learning
(23:52):
from his peers that he stopped thinking of them as competitors and sort of thinking
of them as people that he could bounce ideas off of,
that he could, you know, learn from all those types of things.
So, yeah, he just found so much value by being a part of that group. So I love that.
Well, let's take a quick break, Erin. And when we come back,
we'll bring in someone that you work with who is in the trades and we'll find
(24:13):
a little bit of a different perspective on all this, but we'll be right back right after this.
(24:45):
Think of it as a cross between a mastermind and support group for financial
types that you didn't know you needed.
So if you're looking to build better construction clients as you build a better
accounting business, give us a try.
All right. I am Tanya here in the Construction Junction podcast,
your host, and I am welcoming back for our last segment, Aaron from Moss Adams.
(25:09):
Thanks for joining us again.
And we're going to bring into the conversation now, Rob Scott,
the founder of Scott Coatings. Rob, tell us a little bit about Scott Coatings
and how it was founded and what you guys do.
Yes. Well, thanks for having me on. Yeah. Scott Coatings was founded 20 years
ago. I was working for another contractor, paying my way through the University
(25:31):
of Washington, doing a very similar thing that we do, just on a much smaller scale.
And when I graduated, I wanted to do a lot of bigger projects, and they didn't.
So our visions didn't align. And so I left Scott Coatings 20 years ago,
and now we do work in two states, bidding in four states.
(25:53):
And yeah, it's been a lot of fun, quite the journey over the last 20 years.
Yeah, congratulations. That's a great journey and a cool career path. Something really cool.
So we're talking about this workforce development thing. You've been doing this 20 years, Rob.
First of all, what changes have you seen when it comes to the workforce over
(26:15):
the last 20 years? Oh, my gosh.
We were just talking about this last week with our safety manager.
When we started, I don't even think PPE was required on all job sites like it is.
I mean, I think we wore hard hats on jobs that were like shell and core jobs,
but not on interior tenant improvements, maybe safety glasses for subgeneral
(26:38):
contractors. And it was just now it's required across the board on all job sites.
And we have a safety manager full time that mandates what we're going to wear.
So that's been a huge change. The use of technology, we had paper everything,
daily reports, EWA's, time cards.
Now, I don't even think we use paper on any of our projects,
(27:01):
regardless if the general contractor requires it or not. So that's been a huge
shift and the use of social media.
That's been great. Our employees want to take pictures of projects,
share it on their Facebook or Instagram.
People talking on LinkedIn. That's been a huge shift. I mean, that didn't exist.
(27:22):
I feel old. That's why my kids always call me old, I guess.
I love that last bit that you mentioned because it's something that is,
again, in terms of workforce development and this idea of an aging workforce
that Aaron mentioned in our last segment. it.
It's something that we're talking about a lot. Like I said, I sit on the board
for the ASA and we just recently brought on someone who's like the director
(27:45):
of membership and marketing.
So her whole goal is to go out and help find members.
And that's one of the things that she brought up is that while maybe some of
the folks that own these construction companies are not necessarily even on
social media, a lot of their workforce is.
And so that's one place that we need to be reaching into and making sure that
we're tapping into the place where the folks that are doing the work are actually
(28:09):
hanging out as well. So that's a really good point.
So Rob, you know, you were able to listen in on what Aaron and I were talking about.
What do you think? We're just going to ask you the same question that I asked
Aaron. What do you think is like the number one problem facing contractors these
days when it comes to workforce development?
Yeah. I mean, we have a ticking time. They talk about it in every industry.
(28:33):
I mean, I mean, ours is just as much or maybe more so than everyone,
but 50% of our entire workforce is going to retire by 2030.
I mean, that's a big number.
There's a big pool of people coming from construction management into the office, so that's great.
But in the fields, it is. It's a big problem.
People aren't entering the trades as fast, so we have to figure out how to overcome that. And I...
(28:58):
Though challenging, I think it's something that is the fault of owners and people
talking about how the best way to create a future is going to college.
And I went to college myself and I paid my way through college in the trades,
but I don't think that's the best way for everyone.
I think we set people up for failure or unhappiness.
I mean, more and more people, we just had our safety manager.
(29:22):
Manager her and her husband both went to central
washington got their degrees in safety and went
to work for a big general contractor she works for us now and he
went back in the trades he's like i don't want to sit at a desk every
day and i know at least 10 people that have done that
same thing and so he paid his
way through college and he has debt now and now he went back in the trades when
(29:45):
he could have avoided that debt so i mean there's more and more posts on linkedin
every day about the path of to $100,000 once you become a journeyman without
any debt in the matter of, depends on, I guess, the trade,
two to five years. I mean, that's a great income.
And we don't tell kids that graduating high school.
And that's a shame because if they're good with their money,
(30:07):
they can have a great pension fund.
They can invest in a few rental properties and produce financial freedom for their family.
So why not do that? I just don't think that's talked about bad enough.
Yeah, I agree. It's something that at the ASA, we talk about a lot.
And one of the things that we've
talked about is finding ways to actually reach out to parents, right?
(30:29):
Because if we still have a group of parents who believe that the way that they're
setting their children up for success is by getting them into college, we have to start there.
We can't just try to grab the kids out of high school because if they're being
told a different story by their parents, that's not going to help.
We have to be able to get this message out to parents.
Rob, specifically, Specifically, how do you, how are you guys addressing some
(30:50):
workforce issues within Scott Coatings?
Yeah, we post a ton on social media.
So when we post on Facebook and Instagram, the primary purpose is to just engage
people who may want to come to work for us.
It's not for business development.
It's to attract people about what the construction industry is like and what's
(31:13):
it like working for us. So letting people know that it's cool.
And I think that's undervalued and not communicated very frequently.
So that's a big thing that we do.
And then also as a union contractor, our people are required to wear a certain
uniform and they're required to pay it for themselves.
So once people come here, we give them shirts and we give them one pair of pants every quarter.
(31:38):
And that may not seem like a big deal, but $45 times four times a hundred some people.
I mean, that can add up, but we want to let them know is we value you.
And I think a lot of the times work in any industry, whether construction can
be very transactional and it's like you're a number, work really hard and you
(32:02):
should be grateful for a paycheck.
And I love what Aaron said is getting a paycheck, a salary, that's the base level.
No employer should be rewarded for making payroll on Friday.
And trust me, I've been scared about payroll many times over 20 years.
But I don't celebrate that I made it. Like that's the base duty that I have.
(32:24):
So we have to find ways to show that you're valuable and we care about you.
Thank you for being here.
So whether it's swag, pizza parties, different things to engage our people,
and then also giving them a career path.
So if you're in the field, making sure you can see that if you want a pathway
to a foreman, a superintendent, or in the office, you can do that and we show you how to do that.
(32:47):
But I think a lot of people don't do that because it takes work and it takes time to create that.
So that's something that we do also.
I love that. I kind of want to tie it back around into how this all like to
make bring things full circle.
When you're talking about, you know, what you're giving to your employees in
terms of ways to make them feel valued and giving them that swag.
(33:10):
And, you know, I don't know, and we can dive into this a little bit if it's
something you do, if you guys have like retirement programs or different things that you do.
Two, how much engaged are you like with your accounting folks and the folks
over at Moss Adams in terms of like how this affects the bottom line and then,
you know, getting feedback from them on things that they're seeing, as Aaron said earlier,
(33:30):
like how much are you engaging with the accountants to say, OK, what can we afford?
What are best practices? All that kind of stuff.
Yeah. So one thing that Moss does that is great is that annual salary benchmark.
So I get that. I review that. We have a tool called Compies that lets us go
out in the workforce too and just compare what we're paying to the workforce to see if we're high,
(33:55):
medium, or low so we can make sure we're always watching those trends in our own office.
And then every year after audit and review, we sit with Moss and they go through
the benchmark of best-in-class contractors. And so we see where we're at.
Are we lagging? Are we in the middle? Or are we leading the way?
And what do we have to do to make sure we stay there?
(34:17):
And one thing that can be scary, I think, is putting money aside for investing in your people.
And that's something that my goal is 1% of every dollar goes to investing in our people.
And that's a big number. And especially the union contractor,
(34:38):
it's paid for by the union, but there's still things we have to do to help our
people make sure that they're successful here.
So looking at those types of things, and they do great. I've called Aaron many
times just to get his thoughts about different things.
So from his worldview of where he's at with other contractors and giving me
feedback on what I'm doing, what may not be right.
(35:01):
It's nice to have a sounding board so you're not alone with your own thoughts,
what's working, what's not working.
Yeah, that makes a lot of sense.
As Aaron and I were chatting earlier, Rob, as we talked about some of the workforce
development things, so anything we chatted about, whether it's workforce development,
being a part of a trade organization, what were some of the things that came
(35:23):
to mind that you would like to know that you think maybe, Scott?
And again, I know you've been around 20 years, but I feel like every business
has room for improvement, right?
What are some questions that you would have around, like, what are still some
ways that we can do this better?
For, from you, from Aaron? Erin? Yeah, either way, just mostly from Erin.
He's the expert here. I'm just here to facilitate the conversation.
(35:45):
Yeah, it's what I want to know is from our accountant and professional we work
with, what are you seeing that other people are doing exceptionally well that we're not doing?
That is something that I want to know all the time and to know,
okay, maybe it's something that I can grow into or maybe it's something I never thought of.
(36:06):
Erin, how do you answer those those questions when they come in from clients.
Where are you diving in to help them see what they are doing and where they can grow to?
Well, I think Rob touched on it. One of the things we do is benchmarking.
And so looking at just that benchmarking, but it goes well beyond that, right?
And Rob touched on this. It's engaging with our clients throughout the year
(36:26):
with no agenda meetings.
A lot of times it's just, hey, what is going on in your business?
What are some of the challenges that you're facing?
Getting a flavor for what's going on on the business, Rob touched on this before, but.
From a promotion perspective, they have great swag. I mean, there are people
where their stuff out and about.
I see that anyone who's only listening to this while Rob was talking about that,
(36:48):
Aaron was holding up one of his Scott coatings. How they absolutely have great, great stuff.
And Rob touched on this too, that people are super proud about what they do
and celebrating a really cool projects or really great design or delivery type things.
Those are things things that I can't emphasize enough of being proud of what
(37:11):
you do and being proud of who you are is super important.
And so when, when clients, I don't usually go into a client with an agenda and
like a checklist of like, what are you doing for your workforce development?
Are you, do you have great swag? If so, why don't I have any of it or any of
that kind of stuff? It's more of right. And I get that hat.
That's right. Or that sweet North face coat. I need one of those.
(37:34):
Is that it really comes back to what, what are you seeing in your business and
what are the challenges that you're seeing day in, day out.
And then oftentimes I can go and
say, well, here's how I've seen other organizations address this issue.
And I would say in a, in frequent, but sometimes in a,
I would say it happens probably five or six times a year, where I'll hear something
(37:54):
about another contractor through the org, through the the organizations I'm
involved with and just say, Hey, here's a, here's a point of light for you of
what I'm hearing out in the industry,
whether, whether this is true or not, you should know what this, what this sounds like.
So you can either address it or it may be really great news where like,
(38:15):
Hey, people say this is the best contractor to work for in this space.
Keep it up. But my job again is to say, what, what am I seeing out there?
What are best practices I can pass along?
And then listening to our clients and saying, what are you dealing with?
And how can I share insights of, I don't come up with any of this stuff really on my own.
It's what I see other organizations doing really well. That's awesome.
(38:39):
The things that you guys, oh, sorry. I think my microphone might be doing something
weird. You guys hear me? Okay.
All right. I think I've adjusted it now. Sorry about that. Rob,
what are some things that you guys might be thinking about changing or,
or something new that you guys may be thinking about implementing when it comes
to workforce development to address some of the challenges that we've already talked about?
(39:00):
Yeah, I think, let me get to that. But I think engaging in trade organizations,
you and Aaron are going around that.
And you said, you both have heard a lot of people don't show up to those because,
well, I don't want to be there because someone might steal my people.
I think that's crazy. Because one, if you've worked in this for a long time,
you can build some really great friendships.
I mean, it's like competitive sports.
(39:22):
Sometimes Sometimes you compete with someone and sometimes they end up on your
team and sometimes people go to your team, but at the end of the day,
it's sometimes you win, sometimes you lose.
So why not get to know the people in your markets? Because then you get to know the people who...
Aren't great and what aren't they doing that are great because you can
learn a lot from that and you can learn the people who are really great and
they can sharpen you so i think you just want to be
(39:43):
really aware of that because like asa is a really good one
i'm the president of the washington chapter it's invaluable
in our trade organizations too so make sure that you're engaged with those organizations
because it's priceless say it louder for the people in the back okay Something
that we're starting that's new for us that has been a year and a half in the works,
(40:09):
and it's through getting to know a contractor.
We are trying to figure out how to create the right development program.
So when someone, the union helps someone from an apprentice to a journeyman,
and then we have to figure out what's the right way to help them become a foreman.
Like, okay, they're a lead painter, and then they become a foreman.
And we have different things that we've done over the years,
(40:31):
but I found a company out of Texas and it was invaluable.
And I reached out to me. They're a huge, huge company. So they have a whole
workforce development team.
And I reached out to them. I saw their foreman training online and I said, hey, can I use this?
And she's like, yeah, no problem. And she sent me the entire copy of how to
become a lead and then how to become a foreman.
And we just started talking over the years.
(40:53):
And this was about three years ago that I met her. And we were having a problem on all of our jobs.
We're required to have someone that as the point person, the foreman,
they can speak and write in English.
Wow, this has become a growing problem for us. And so I reached out to her.
I was like, hey, what do you guys do about this?
(41:13):
And she said they have partnered with local colleges there in Texas to create
ESL classes. And I was like, well, that's amazing.
I don't know how to do that there. So she put me in touch with the person that
helped them develop that program.
And now they're one of the leaders at Tyson Foods, a huge company.
And so he put me in contact with him and his name is Anson.
(41:37):
That was a year and a half ago. And he has helped us put together a program
that will launch in April for a local partnership that we did with a local community
college to do ESL classes at our,
in our training room after work two days a week.
And we'll do it four quarters every year for all of our field,
for anyone who wants to come. It's free.
(41:58):
We just asked that they commit to two nights a week. And we'll provide dinner for them.
And our hope is that by us investing in them as a person, not because it's going
to help make us more money, but because we care about you.
And if we help you become a better person, maybe you can talk to the teachers
(42:19):
at your kid's school better. Maybe it'll be easier when you go grocery shopping,
negotiating your mortgage deal.
You're going to become more valuable and excited about living life.
And in doing so, hopefully, you'll remember where you learned that,
and you'll produce over the long term with us.
And you'll have a chance to become a foreman and a superintendent,
(42:39):
and you'll make more money, which is good for your family.
So that's something that we've decided to do and trying to figure it out.
It's hard. I thought we had to do it on our own, but because of trade organizations,
there's got to be someone that has an answer. And they did.
I didn't know how to do it. And she connected me with someone that did.
So that's been something that I'm really excited about.
(43:02):
Now, I haven't done it. So it's like one of those things when you have a party
at your house and you're invited a bunch of people and they just hope everyone shows up.
So we're getting ready to launch it in April. So knock on wood, it goes great.
And it's something that we can continue for a long time. But I'm excited that
watching this unfold over the last year and a half of hard work putting together behind the scenes.
(43:23):
That's really exciting. First of all, congratulations for bringing that to fruition.
I'm super excited. And I want you to report back. I really, I want to hear how
this goes, Rob. Okay. I want to know what's going on with that once you guys get it going.
We have a gentleman who's the former president several years back of our local ASA chapter.
His name is Mike Brewer, and he started here in the Phoenix area,
what he called Brewer University.
(43:44):
And he basically, instead of
hiring guys and just trying to help them get developed out in the field,
they brought the guys in, and don't quote me on this,
but I think they brought them in for nine nine months of just training in a
training center and bringing them up to speed on how to do plumbing and then
how to like fill out the paperwork that brewer companies wanted filled out and,
(44:08):
how to interact when you're on the job site.
Just all the things that he wanted everybody that would come to work for him
to know and then would graduate them out of the program and send them to work on his cruise.
And when he first started doing it, all of his foremen were like,
we don't want those guys on our jobs because they haven't been on a job site.
They were just very much against it. And he just slowly kept pushing it out there.
(44:31):
And it really became where his foreman started saying, as soon as those guys
have graduated, I need a few more for my crew.
So it just really grew into something amazing for them and was a catalyst for
them growing their business beyond his wildest imagination.
And it was all about just saying, you know what? But I'm tired of the way that
the workforce development old patterns have been going.
(44:53):
We're going to have to come up with something entirely new and do something
we've never done before. And they just tried it.
That's awesome. And I think you mentioned something that is something people
in the office, Aaron made a reference of not having to be office and field and
creating this bridge between the two.
And I think sometimes the office people or superintendents can create a problem
(45:16):
in workforce development because of this is the way it's always been.
And they don't want new people on their projects because they slow things down.
And yes they slow things
down because they don't know how to do it
and so our project manager we have to tell them
all the time is like if a production rates not being hit it's like well let's
(45:37):
encourage them like are they learning something new because just know if we
take the time to develop them they're going to get faster over time yeah it's
just like learning how to type you're really slow it is finger-punching you
do it long enough you're gonna get faster So we have to encourage people to be,
it's okay to go slow as long as you learn how to do it right.
(45:57):
And same thing with our foreman is like, you want new people. Someone taught you.
So make sure you're reciprocating that and giving it back to our industry so
we don't lose that. that.
That's something that business owners, people in the office,
and the superintendents have to remind everyone is bringing new people in is
hard. It will slow down production.
(46:19):
It will slow down the jobs.
But if you show them they're valuable and they're learning a new trade is worth
it and you're worth it to listen to them and take time to care for them,
they're going to want to come back and they're going to want to work for you
and stay with your company for the long term so you get the value that you put inside of them.
Yeah, I agree with that. One of the things I think I mentioned earlier that
(46:40):
I'm working with a great new coach who is a coach in the trade space.
And one of the things that he talks about, and I mentioned it a little bit earlier
about having this whole idea of like everybody on the team being in this collaborative space.
And to your point, Rob, one of the things that he has them do is sit everybody
down and they come up with a term that everybody wants to be called.
And every company is different and it takes a while sometimes to get everybody on the same page.
(47:04):
But when they finally like land on this term, so actually our team has done
it. So our team, we like to be called the advocates, right? Because we like
to advocate for our clients.
But some of the his clients have come up with things like superhero
right and so one of the things then that they're
able to do collaboratively then as a team is
when they're faced with a superintendent who's kind of getting
(47:24):
a little bit grumpy about something like that they'll say well well you really
look like a superhero out in the field if you're
behaving this way towards the new guy right like if you're truly the superhero
superheroes help the underdog come up right so So just having this word that
they've sort of collaborated on to come up with for themselves about how they
want to be viewed just helps the whole team to come around to that idea, right?
(47:48):
And just say, hey, you know what? We're all going to be the superhero today
and help the new guy learn something new that he's never learned before.
So I love that kind of thing.
Erin, I would love to know if there's anything new that you learned today or
something new that you're interested in taking out of this discussion?
Yeah, I mean, there's a couple of things that, you know, some of the stuff that
(48:11):
Rob was doing, I didn't, I had no idea that he was working on the ESL side.
And I think that's a fantastic idea because that's not something unique to him
in our marketplace that something I would encourage other folks to get involved with.
I feel like there's three or four things I want to follow up with each one of
you on on of just, Hey, what are you doing in this area outside of this call?
(48:33):
And, and who are your contacts for this?
So just love the idea. And I thought Rob said super well of we're investing
in the individual and it doesn't necessarily need to have a straight line correlation
with Scott coatings or with whatever contractor it's I'm for you and when,
(48:54):
when people believe that you're for them and we see that in most albums all
the time, we're are very intentional on our coaching.
And quite frankly, a lot of people leave Moss Adams and they go out into the accounting world.
And I have a choice there of, of if I invest and do a great job for them,
there are oftentimes clients that come back on the backside.
And what Rob said is so true that if he invests in people,
(49:15):
their loyalty and their willingness to go the extra mile for Scott coatings,
or even if there are somewhere else out in the business world,
they'll always be loyal to the organization because you're loyal to them.
That, that is is super impactful.
I love that. Rob, what about you? Something new that you learned today in our discussion?
Just a reminder of how important conversations like this are.
(49:36):
Sometimes we can get so busy and work every day that we have to get our tasks
done so we can be home and be with our family and loved ones.
But taking time like this isn't something that is going to slow us down.
It's actually something that's going to propel us forward.
And to the degree that you invest in something, it's to the degree that you're going to get back.
(49:57):
But it's hard to remember that when you're in the middle of just go, go, go. go.
So these conversations are invaluable. So thank you.
I love it. Yeah. Thank you guys both for joining us today. I really appreciate the discussion.
You're welcome. Thanks for having
us on. Thanks. Yeah. Thanks for the collaboration. That was a lot of fun.
(50:18):
Thank you for tuning in to Construction Junction. To find out more about the
junction between accounting and construction, please email hello at theprofitconstructors.com.
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