September 16, 2025 • 26 mins
What does leadership look like when every decision you make affects people you'll see at the grocery store tomorrow? Schumata Brown, Town Manager of Maysville, North Carolina, knows this reality intimately. As a native son who chose to stay and serve his hometown, Brown brings a unique perspective to leadership that's equal parts practical wisdom and heartfelt commitment.
In this episode, Brown shares real-world stories about building trust, modeling integrity, and embracing visibility in leadership roles. We dig into the balance between community traditions and new growth, and how leaders can foster a culture of belonging while driving progress.
Whether you're leading a local organization, a school, a church, or a small business, this conversation offers valuable insights on building trust, embracing adaptability, and creating a legacy that extends well beyond your tenure.
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Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:12):
Welcome to Consulting from the Couch, where we
explore the people, ideas andleadership shaping our
communities and our lives, onestory at a time.
In today's episode, we'retaking a closer look at what it
means to lead in a small ruralcommunity, the kind of place
where everybody knows your nameand they may even know your
(00:32):
phone number.
I've had the privilege ofworking with today's guests to
better his town, community andcounty for many years.
Shivani Brown is a town managerof Maysville, north Carolina, a
rural community facing both theblessings and the burdens of
small town life, from balancinginfrastructure needs with
limited resources to preservingthe town's identity while
(00:54):
planning for its future.
Shemani has had to lead withcreativity, resilience and heart
.
We'll talk about what keeps himup at night, what inspires him
to keep going and whatleadership looks like when
you're building trust acrosskitchen tables and not
boardrooms.
Welcome, shemani, and thank youfor joining us today.
Speaker 2 (01:12):
Thank you for having me.
Speaker 1 (01:14):
If you would take a couple minutes and just tell
listeners about Shemani Brown.
Speaker 2 (01:21):
Born and raised in Maysville, north Carolina.
Real town guy, very humble, hada privilege of not moving away.
Right, had an opportunity to goto join the military and moved
away or went off to college, butI chose to stay in a small town
and lead, coach and do allthose things Again born and
(01:42):
raised from Maysville, so nativeJones County.
Speaker 1 (01:45):
Jones County high school product jones county
school system product correct,go trojan right that's right.
Public schools let's hop rightin, because I've got some really
great questions for you.
Man, just getting to talk aboutyour role and I know you'll
appreciate this question in asmall rural town, the town
manager, as well as many otheremployees, often wears many hats
(02:06):
.
What does a typical day looklike for you, if there is one?
Speaker 2 (02:09):
You know, steve, there's no typical day right in
a small town, one moment overreviewing the budget.
The next I might be out lookingwhat public works do on the
streets.
True story two weeks ago I wasin a hole putting in taps, so
I'm likely to get a budgetquestion from the grocery store
as I'm in the boardroom.
So it's no typical day Wearingmany hats.
(02:30):
And again, like I said, it wasa true story.
They put me on Facebook.
I was putting in taps just twoweeks ago.
Speaker 1 (02:36):
So basically, it's doing what you got to do to get
it done Correct.
That's awesome.
So what makes leading in arural community uniquely
rewarding and or challenging?
Speaker 2 (02:50):
Well, I think it's the relationships You're leading
, people that are not strangers,these people that I worship
with that I grew up with Heck,my mom and dad stays there.
So to me it's all about therelationships and my decisions.
I tell people, for me it's notpersonal, they're professional.
So every decision I'll feel it,you know, and it's got to be
(03:10):
made because, again, I'm goingto see those folks at church,
I'm going to see those families,that family function.
So I can't have a high behindthe policy.
Right, there's thataccountability factor Correct.
Transparency.
Speaker 1 (03:22):
Transparency.
That's right.
So you've been county managernow for how long?
Speaker 2 (03:26):
Town manager nine years.
Speaker 1 (03:28):
Yeah, I'm sorry, town manager for nine years.
So talk about evolution andevolving and, obviously, change.
Have you faced some resistanceto change and, as a leader, how
have you approached that?
Speaker 2 (03:43):
Yes, absolutely.
Change is uncomfortable, right,everybody don't like change,
you know, and I had to make surethat they'll feel comfortable,
you know, with that change.
You're living in a small room.
Budget was tight, right, so Igot to earn some trust and you
know, trust ain't earned fast,it's slowly.
So I approach first bylistening right and truly
(04:06):
listening to the people that areinvolved.
Early in the process I learnedthat if people feel have a value
or a voice in it, it has theability to make that change a
little bit easier.
Speaker 1 (04:18):
You know you made two really good points there.
You talk about listening.
You know my background as acommunicator.
Everyone just kind of jumps tothe assumption that being a good
communicator is being able toarticulate, speak or be able to
take, in my case, for many yearstaking complex things like
(04:40):
engineering and stuff like thatand maybe boiling them down to
everyday language, and that isdefinitely an integral part of
communications.
But something that I think youwould agree with communications
is also listening, and doingthat first right.
Speaker 2 (04:54):
I think it's a big part and that's why I said I
listen and I truly listen.
You know, we have an ability toarticulate real well.
I mean I might not be able todo that, but one thing I can do
is listen well, and I think Ilearned a long time and that's
actually listening to folks.
Speaker 1 (05:10):
That's right.
Speaker 2 (05:10):
And not over-talking them.
Speaker 1 (05:11):
Yeah, and the other thing you mentioned that I think
is paramount is trust.
You talk about building trust.
Trust isn't earned, trust isn'tgiven.
I think you would agree withthis.
It's so hard to earn someone'strust but it's so easy, or it
can happen really quickly losingsomeone's trust.
(05:32):
You may work for years uponyears, upon years to build a
relationship and to create thattrust and in one instance and
you mentioned transparency,right, that's the key, so I
think that's great.
So let's talk aboutinfrastructure, because I know
we've worked together oninfrastructure projects in the
past and talk about limitedfunding and aging infrastructure
(05:54):
or just infrastructure thatneeds to be upgraded.
How do you prioritize in thetown of Maysville, what gets
done?
Speaker 2 (06:02):
First we're going to start with safety right.
Speaker 1 (06:04):
Absolutely and.
Speaker 2 (06:05):
I want to be clear.
And then equality, not equality, equity.
Speaker 1 (06:10):
I mean.
Speaker 2 (06:10):
I want to make sure we're safety and equity for the
people.
Look what's going to affect thepeople the most, right, and
then we go what's critical tothe town infrastructure and
what's critical to the function,and then we leverage what
Grants and partnerships Right.
Speaker 1 (06:29):
Yeah.
So one thing you know in 35years in working in the business
that I worked in it's all aboutrelationships, it's all about
leveraging partnerships and it'sall about figuring out creative
ways to solve a problem right.
And that kind of leads to mynext question does anything come
(06:53):
to mind right off hand about acreative way that you secured
funding or solved a problem andI've got it on my question here
infrastructure.
But it doesn't have to benecessarily an infrastructure
problem that you solved.
It could be any any problemthat potentially has come up
with the town of Mesa.
Speaker 2 (07:10):
And you know we can't do everything at once.
Right, we got to plan, bedisciplined and communicate
early in the process.
One creative funding that comesto mind is we recently combined
state funds with town funds andappropriation from our state
legislative on a street pavingproject.
We just paved about 95% of ourstreets that hasn't been done
(07:33):
probably sent the interpretationof the paving in town so we got
rid of all the potholes and allthat in town.
With being creative, withpartnerships and also uh,
recently on in the news, we werejust finished did a ribbon
cutting on the workforcedevelopment center, where we
took a old part of history oftown and preserved that history
(07:54):
and using it for something.
Speaker 1 (07:55):
Yeah, I saw that.
Talk about that project alittle bit.
I had eliminated a questionthat I was going to talk about a
shrinking workforce and stufflike that.
Talk a little bit about thatproject, because I think that's
just a really interestingproject.
Speaker 2 (08:08):
Yeah, like you said, youth migration and small town
losing population.
I think that project, you knowwe're creating reasons for what
Young people to stay right, likejob training opportunities,
support and, you know, improvingpublic spaces.
You know our training workforceis an example of that.
We took that partnerships,again, we can't do everything
(08:29):
alone because we just don't havethe capacity.
With LCC and Golden Leaf we'llgrant to fund that train depot
to create a workforcedevelopment center where it's
going to give young peopleopportunities to train for
plumbing jobs, electrical, hvac,you know, water and sewer jobs,
which is critical to, I think,the nation.
I think I just read a blog thatmillionaires in I think the 70s
(08:54):
was all of guys.
Then the tech guys came in andnamed us.
They said the next wave ofmillionaires will be these
workforce development jobs.
Speaker 1 (09:02):
You're exactly right, because obviously I'm a little
bit older than you, a little bit, but growing up, man, it was
like it gets kind of beat inyour head hey, if you want to
get a good good paying job, getyour undergraduate degree right.
Then after that, when youstarted getting the influx of
folks getting theirundergraduate degrees, it was
like hey, you want to get a goodjob, you need to get your
(09:24):
master's and or your PhD.
And over the years folks havebeen indoctrinated into that
concept Not saying it's a badconcept at all, because those
things are needed.
I did it, my kids did it.
But at some point in time whenyou start doing that, you have
no one going into the trades andthat's why a plumber can make
(09:45):
$100 plus an hour.
That's why a HVAC guy or a goodmechanic or electrician or
whatever can make really goodmoney because of the supply and
demand.
So to get a plumber and I'lljust say Mark Burnett, I'm going
to give him a plug, he's myplumber.
To get Leonard Honeycutt he'smy electrician.
I'm very fortunate.
(10:06):
But to get someone like that tocome to your house for a
one-off job is hard.
Speaker 2 (10:10):
It's hard.
I tell people all the time youknow we're dealing in the water
and sewer business.
Speaker 1 (10:14):
People have leaks all the time I tell folks I can
make a million out of it Just inMaysville Just fixing leaks and
you talked about all those youknow being a doctor, going to
college and getting these officejobs or whatever you know, and
I'm scared to go under my houseI probably can't fit underneath
(10:36):
my house, but I'm much like youman.
So you've talked aboutworkforce development.
You talk about that awesomecreative partnership with Lenore
Community College, golden Leaf,town of Maysville, talk about
small business and talk aboutthings that you're doing,
because you've done some reallyneat things the last couple of
years to support small businessin your community.
Speaker 2 (10:58):
Correct.
We, we listen to what, whatthey need, right, whether it's
marketing, grant, access orinfrastructure, and we try to
remove those barriers.
We provide it along with thepartnership from the county.
So micro loans for smallbusinesses, you know and I
actually did the legwork, youknow, for those small you need a
grant.
I'll write it.
You don't have to do anythingbut tell me what you need so
(11:18):
that support making permittingprocess simplified, right?
You know what I mean.
You want to come and start abusiness.
Speaker 1 (11:24):
A lot of cities and towns need to listen to what
you're doing, because getting apermit for something can be very
difficult.
Speaker 2 (11:29):
Right, and I noticed that.
You know, and that could be abarrier.
You know, in small towns likeMaysville we can't be a stranger
, it's just Jacksonville or NewBern.
So we try to simplify that.
You know we want to be.
Our tagline is naturallywelcoming, right?
So we want to welcome everybody, whether it's a business or
whatever.
So we try to remove thosebarriers.
Speaker 1 (11:48):
So is your little, that little area that you were
creating.
I was fortunate enough to servewith you on the Community 100
for Jones County and this ideapopped up.
I'm not ashamed to say Iactually made the motion to help
with this project because Ijust thought it was a wonderful
idea.
Speaker 2 (12:03):
Talk about that Again , other partnerships, and you
made that motion.
I can remember John being aneconomist coming out and saying
that he'd never seen somethingimprove so fast, you know.
And that Maysville Marketplacewas an idea that we had an empty
lot that was being overgrownand we took that and put out six
10-by-12 sheds forentrepreneurs to come in and
(12:23):
have a space that is relativelycheap to start their business,
and that marketplace has grown.
We have added another shedwhich is a half salon.
We have two seasoned rentals.
As we speak, my lady isactually doing coffee and tea
now and that is pleased with herbusiness.
We have a t-shirt kind of giftmaker in one, and one lady is
(12:44):
doing produce.
We even had a guy that come inand I didn't think it would do
good.
He did the same thing but he'sselling feed dog food, and that
business has grown.
Speaker 1 (12:53):
He was one of the first ones, wasn't he?
Correct, yeah.
Speaker 2 (12:56):
And he's just growing out the seams.
He has added another shed outthere.
We're looking in the budgetthis year to add additional shed
.
So it's doing what it'sintended to do and they're able
to come there.
They can come in there and rentit for a season for like 600
bucks a year you know I mean,and 25 bucks a weekend.
Speaker 1 (13:14):
You know you talk about entrepreneurship and
helping the people startup,entrepreneurship, innovative,
creative thinking, thinkingoutside the box, with the
seasonal traffic, with the beachcoming through, coming right
down.
17 to head down 58.
Is that 58 to to head?
down highway 50 correct to headdown highway 58, be on your
(13:34):
right, right, not far from thetown hall and everything, and
it's just something just unique.
So kudos for that, man.
That was a great idea.
Man, that was an awesome idea.
Well, unfortunately it can'talways be balloons and sunshine,
right?
Tell me as a leader and tell meas town manager, how do you?
They are tough conversations,whether it's budget related,
(13:55):
it's something going on, and, astown manager, you're going to
talk to citizens when, evenbeyond budget, when something's
going on in the community.
Talk to me about how you handlethose tough conversations and
or criticism.
Speaker 2 (14:07):
You know, first with humility, you know, and honesty,
right, criticism come with thejob.
Humility and honesty, right.
Criticism comes with the job, Ialready know that and you're
pretty sure you've beencriticized some things, but it
does come with the job.
And again, I try to be withhumility and honesty.
Number one I don't take itpersonal, right.
We get criticized, whether it'sthrough an eval or anything.
(14:30):
We kind of take it personal andI try not to take it personal
and I try to create a space, youknow, for dialogue.
Let's talk about it.
Speaker 1 (14:37):
Let's talk about your list.
Listen to it.
Goes back to listening, right?
Speaker 2 (14:41):
Right.
And again, you know what withcriticism and I teach my kids
all the time right with ourshortfalls, let's take
responsibility for it.
Right, let's acknowledge that Ihad a shortfall, you know, and
I think that goes a long way.
It was like, all right, we gotit wrong.
Okay, let's talk about it andlet's fix it.
Speaker 1 (14:57):
And we always say this, and I don't think you're
putting lipstick on it, butpeople always talk about a
problem or a situation orwhatever.
But it's an opportunity.
Yeah, let's talk about the whybehind the back choice, back to
(15:17):
why.
That's yours right, that's youknow, when you go back to trust,
you know it's built.
What one conversation at a time, that's exactly right.
So, rural leaders leading in arural community what's one
leadership skill that isespecially important when you're
leading in your setting?
And I think you may havealready hit on it, but in case
you haven't, I'll give you thisopportunity or you can, you know
, talk about that well, I thinkit's adaptability.
Speaker 2 (15:33):
I mean, we're constantly changing.
You might have a different wordfor it that you was thinking,
but I think that we got to adapt.
Whether it's a storm, whetherit's a business that's needing a
budget fall, we have to adaptwith every opportunity.
I mean, we can't be rigid.
Speaker 1 (15:52):
Shimani, I think being in a small community.
Some would say that that's aweakness or whatever because of
things, but I think yourweakness is also your greatest
strength, because beingadaptable and being able to move
large towns, large cities,large communities they don't
necessarily always possess thatadaptability.
Personal experience worked forthe local electric cooperative
(16:14):
for 30 plus odd years.
Our leadership, our governancewith our board directors was
local, so we were able to maybemake decisions, do things a
little bit quicker than theinvestor in utility Duke Energy
or Carolina Power and Light orthe city of New Bern or whatever
.
It didn't have to go up somesort of really structured
(16:35):
corporate ladder or whatever.
So by us being small, local,grounded in the community, that
smallness was actually to ourbenefit and I would say probably
the town of Maysville is thesame way.
That's exactly right.
Yeah, so you may leave somebodyout here.
Talk to me about unsung heroesin your town and tell me how you
(16:57):
, as a leader, you lift them upand you support them.
Speaker 2 (17:00):
Yeah, you know, again you could leave somebody out.
We always talk about fire andpolice, right?
Speaker 1 (17:07):
They are the heroes, right?
They're the superstars.
Speaker 2 (17:09):
Right, they get all the recognition.
Speaker 1 (17:10):
Yeah, they are the heroes, they're the superstars.
They get all the recognitionand much deserved.
Speaker 2 (17:13):
By the way, let's think about our public works.
It's a beautiful thing to gothere and turn your faucet on
and flush your toilet until itdoesn't happen, and then much
like electricity and we canargue we can do without the
police, always those cons, butgo there and not be able to turn
on your water and flush yourtoilet.
(17:34):
That's a problem every day.
So you know, in our admin staff, you know you talk about them
and they don't get muchrecognition.
You know, and the volunteers,right Yep, who keep the events
going, I mean so those are someunsung heroes that hardly ever
get in the headlines.
Speaker 1 (17:49):
And how do you support them?
Speaker 2 (17:50):
You know I try to celebrate them publicly.
Right, we try to do that, tryto give public works better
tools.
Right, you know we support, youknow, admin, whatever.
You know if it's a new computer, if it's, you know, a new pen
or if it's an office paper, youknow you try to support them
every day and make sure thatthey're valued.
And leadership means shininglight on others and you know
(18:13):
you're not standing in it, youknow I mean.
So I don't want to stand like,I want to shine a light on the
public works staff.
The volunteers, the police, thefire, so and I think you would.
Speaker 1 (18:20):
You would agree with this.
You're only as good as theemployees that work, so I always
use this phrase working.
I may have had 20 people thatwere quote, I guess for me or
underneath me or whatever.
I always said when I wastalking about somebody.
Somebody might say, hey, who'sthat?
And I'd say, oh, that's Joe, heworks with me.
(18:40):
He might report to me, but heworks with me.
But at the same time I alwaysunderstood if an employee
understands their role and theirpurpose and understand what
their part of the greater good,then they're appreciated, they
understand their job and they'll.
Speaker 2 (19:01):
You know, employees will do almost anything if you
show them that correct, yeah,and sort of like, with y'all got
a lot of trucks, a lot lot ofequipment right Maysville got
soil plant, water plant, trucks,computers, all that.
But I'd be as accurate as thosefolks that clock out at 5
o'clock every day 100% agreewith you, man.
Speaker 1 (19:18):
So let's talk long term.
20 years from now I will be 77and let's hope I'll be standing
upright Long term.
What do you hope people sayabout Shemotty Brown and the
leadership he has brought andwill hopefully continue to bring
to the town of Maysville andthe community and Jones County?
Speaker 2 (19:38):
Okay.
So first I want people tounderstand.
I want I mean, there's a quotethat said we're creating shade
for others to sit under.
Whatever I'm doing now is notfor me to sit up on that shade
tree, it's for others.
You know, I want Maysville tobe known for a place that honors
its history right whilecreating a future for everybody
right, where families feel safe,businesses can thrive and young
(20:00):
people want to stay there rightTwenty years from now, I hope
they say that I live with oneintegrity right, we want to
always have that integrity thatI brought people together, try
to have community engagement asmuch as I could and lay the
groundwork for growth.
That that didn't leave anyonebehind, whether it was age, race
or whatever.
It didn't leave anyone behind.
Speaker 1 (20:20):
That's awesome.
You pretty much answered thelast question what does success
look like for you, not justprofessionally, but for the
community as a whole?
I think I think your answerthere just really tackled both
of them.
So I prepped you with thosequestions.
You knew what I was going toask you there.
Now I've got a couple.
I really think that greatleaders in our community, there
are certain things that they do,there are certain traits that
(20:41):
they have, whether it's acertain this or a certain that,
and so each podcast I'm going totalk to the guest about the
various questions that I'm askedas related to that topic that
day.
But then at the end I'm goingto ask every guest these same
(21:04):
questions and over time I'm justgoing to kind of see how this
shakes out little informal polland just say, hey, yeah, so 80%
of the guests said this or somesort of maybe a term or some
sort of theme or something likethat.
So they're not difficultquestions, they're just it's
kind of honestly getting to knowa little more about Shemani
Brown.
So, with that said, when youthink of the word successful,
(21:26):
who's the first person who comesto mind, and why?
Speaker 2 (21:29):
I want to say Jesus Christ.
You know, just because of myreligious background and I was
raised in the church and alwaysputting God first.
Speaker 1 (21:39):
And I think you really don't have to answer why
from that?
I think everybody pretty muchknows that, as why Don't know,
if you're a moviegoer or a bookreader, what is your favorite
documentary or movie orpotential book?
Speaker 2 (21:54):
of all time it probably is a tough one, but I'm
going to go back.
I mean again, I don't want tohop in.
I'm not trying to changeanybody, but the greatest book
ever wrote to me is the.
Bible Absolutely Correct I mean, I'd take a lot of that and put
it into my life.
You don't even have to be areligion just to learn from you.
(22:18):
Know that Bible.
Speaker 1 (22:19):
You know and a lot of whether.
However and this isn't areligious show, but regardless
of how you feel, but justreading it as a historical
document and a lot of thelessons learned and with the
parables and just a lot ofthings associated with that,
there are just a lot of greatstories that teach you about
being a good person and doingthe right thing, and I just
(22:40):
think that's what it is aboutbeing a good person and doing
the right thing.
Absolutely.
Speaker 2 (22:45):
But I am reading a book now that's called Shifting
the Monkey.
That was pretty intriguing tome because I'm a leader that I
like to get hands on and do alot.
But it tells you that to keepthose good people and separate
the bad employees, kind of shiftthose jobs and making sure that
they're doing that Shifting themonkey.
Speaker 1 (23:03):
All right, excellent.
Let's talk about morningrituals.
What does the first 60 minutesof every day look like for
Shemani Brown?
Speaker 2 (23:14):
I think it's looked like what my life is.
It's looking and caring forothers.
My wife was diagnosed with ALS,so my first 60 minutes is
taking care of her and that'swhat's been in my life.
A lot is taking care of others,Taking care of others.
Speaker 1 (23:29):
True servant leader man.
So this one's a tough one.
If you had to speak aboutsomething, if you were asked to
speak about something and togive a TED Talk about something
outside of your main area ofexpertise, you couldn't talk
about being the town manager ofthe town of Maysville.
What would be a topic that youwould talk about outside your
(23:52):
area of expertise?
Speaker 2 (23:54):
I'm a big baseball fan.
Speaker 1 (23:55):
Are you?
Speaker 2 (23:56):
Yes, I'm a big sports advocate, so I'm pretty sure it
would be on baseball.
Speaker 1 (24:01):
Somebody says hey, shemani, get there and talk 15
minutes about something, and youwould just get there talking
about baseball.
Speaker 2 (24:07):
That's correct.
Again, I think baseball isstarting to be a lost sport in
our community.
I would concur, I'm a bigadvocate of trying to bring that
back to the community.
I think I would go up there andtalk baseball Awesome.
Speaker 1 (24:18):
You mentioned something earlier and I don't
know if this is the same one.
Do you have a quote you liveyour life by or you think of
often?
Speaker 2 (24:26):
Too much is given, much is required.
Speaker 1 (24:28):
Absolutely Last one.
You may have something for this.
You may not have something forthis.
I just thought this was anintriguing question.
What do you believe is true?
What do you believe is trueeven though you can't prove it?
Speaker 2 (24:44):
I believe it's true that the earth is round.
Speaker 1 (24:46):
That's right.
Okay, so you are not a Dukebasketball player Kyrie Irving.
Speaker 2 (24:53):
Kyrie Irving.
Speaker 1 (24:55):
You don't fall down in the sphere of Kyrie Irving
that the earth is flat, correct.
I would say that I concur withyou on that assessment.
So listen, that's a wrap,shemani.
Thank you so much, and listen,that's this episode of
Consulting from the Couch.
Big thanks to you, man, forsharing what it really takes to
lead in a small town, and thewins, the challenges and the
(25:19):
heart that it takes behind itall, and to the listeners.
Thank you for listening.
If you like this episode ofConsulting from the Couch, be
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Leave a quick review or shareit with someone who loves
(25:42):
hearing just local stories aboutlocal leaders and what they're
doing.
Until next time, I'm SteveGoodson and talk soon.
Welcome to Consulting from the Couch, where we
explore the people, ideas andleadership shaping our
communities and our lives, onestory at a time.
In today's episode, we'retaking a closer look at what it
means to lead in a small ruralcommunity, the kind of place
where everybody knows your nameand they may even know your
(00:32):
phone number.
I've had the privilege ofworking with today's guests to
better his town, community andcounty for many years.
Shivani Brown is a town managerof Maysville, north Carolina, a
rural community facing both theblessings and the burdens of
small town life, from balancinginfrastructure needs with
limited resources to preservingthe town's identity while
(00:54):
planning for its future.
Shemani has had to lead withcreativity, resilience and heart
.
We'll talk about what keeps himup at night, what inspires him
to keep going and whatleadership looks like when
you're building trust acrosskitchen tables and not
boardrooms.
Welcome, shemani, and thank youfor joining us today.
Speaker 2 (01:12):
Thank you for having me.
Speaker 1 (01:14):
If you would take a couple minutes and just tell
listeners about Shemani Brown.
Speaker 2 (01:21):
Born and raised in Maysville, north Carolina.
Real town guy, very humble, hada privilege of not moving away.
Right, had an opportunity to goto join the military and moved
away or went off to college, butI chose to stay in a small town
and lead, coach and do allthose things Again born and
(01:42):
raised from Maysville, so nativeJones County.
Speaker 1 (01:45):
Jones County high school product jones county
school system product correct,go trojan right that's right.
Public schools let's hop rightin, because I've got some really
great questions for you.
Man, just getting to talk aboutyour role and I know you'll
appreciate this question in asmall rural town, the town
manager, as well as many otheremployees, often wears many hats
(02:06):
.
What does a typical day looklike for you, if there is one?
Speaker 2 (02:09):
You know, steve, there's no typical day right in
a small town, one moment overreviewing the budget.
The next I might be out lookingwhat public works do on the
streets.
True story two weeks ago I wasin a hole putting in taps, so
I'm likely to get a budgetquestion from the grocery store
as I'm in the boardroom.
So it's no typical day Wearingmany hats.
(02:30):
And again, like I said, it wasa true story.
They put me on Facebook.
I was putting in taps just twoweeks ago.
Speaker 1 (02:36):
So basically, it's doing what you got to do to get
it done Correct.
That's awesome.
So what makes leading in arural community uniquely
rewarding and or challenging?
Speaker 2 (02:50):
Well, I think it's the relationships You're leading
, people that are not strangers,these people that I worship
with that I grew up with Heck,my mom and dad stays there.
So to me it's all about therelationships and my decisions.
I tell people, for me it's notpersonal, they're professional.
So every decision I'll feel it,you know, and it's got to be
(03:10):
made because, again, I'm goingto see those folks at church,
I'm going to see those families,that family function.
So I can't have a high behindthe policy.
Right, there's thataccountability factor Correct.
Transparency.
Speaker 1 (03:22):
Transparency.
That's right.
So you've been county managernow for how long?
Speaker 2 (03:26):
Town manager nine years.
Speaker 1 (03:28):
Yeah, I'm sorry, town manager for nine years.
So talk about evolution andevolving and, obviously, change.
Have you faced some resistanceto change and, as a leader, how
have you approached that?
Speaker 2 (03:43):
Yes, absolutely.
Change is uncomfortable, right,everybody don't like change,
you know, and I had to make surethat they'll feel comfortable,
you know, with that change.
You're living in a small room.
Budget was tight, right, so Igot to earn some trust and you
know, trust ain't earned fast,it's slowly.
So I approach first bylistening right and truly
(04:06):
listening to the people that areinvolved.
Early in the process I learnedthat if people feel have a value
or a voice in it, it has theability to make that change a
little bit easier.
Speaker 1 (04:18):
You know you made two really good points there.
You talk about listening.
You know my background as acommunicator.
Everyone just kind of jumps tothe assumption that being a good
communicator is being able toarticulate, speak or be able to
take, in my case, for many yearstaking complex things like
(04:40):
engineering and stuff like thatand maybe boiling them down to
everyday language, and that isdefinitely an integral part of
communications.
But something that I think youwould agree with communications
is also listening, and doingthat first right.
Speaker 2 (04:54):
I think it's a big part and that's why I said I
listen and I truly listen.
You know, we have an ability toarticulate real well.
I mean I might not be able todo that, but one thing I can do
is listen well, and I think Ilearned a long time and that's
actually listening to folks.
Speaker 1 (05:10):
That's right.
Speaker 2 (05:10):
And not over-talking them.
Speaker 1 (05:11):
Yeah, and the other thing you mentioned that I think
is paramount is trust.
You talk about building trust.
Trust isn't earned, trust isn'tgiven.
I think you would agree withthis.
It's so hard to earn someone'strust but it's so easy, or it
can happen really quickly losingsomeone's trust.
(05:32):
You may work for years uponyears, upon years to build a
relationship and to create thattrust and in one instance and
you mentioned transparency,right, that's the key, so I
think that's great.
So let's talk aboutinfrastructure, because I know
we've worked together oninfrastructure projects in the
past and talk about limitedfunding and aging infrastructure
(05:54):
or just infrastructure thatneeds to be upgraded.
How do you prioritize in thetown of Maysville, what gets
done?
Speaker 2 (06:02):
First we're going to start with safety right.
Speaker 1 (06:04):
Absolutely and.
Speaker 2 (06:05):
I want to be clear.
And then equality, not equality, equity.
Speaker 1 (06:10):
I mean.
Speaker 2 (06:10):
I want to make sure we're safety and equity for the
people.
Look what's going to affect thepeople the most, right, and
then we go what's critical tothe town infrastructure and
what's critical to the function,and then we leverage what
Grants and partnerships Right.
Speaker 1 (06:29):
Yeah.
So one thing you know in 35years in working in the business
that I worked in it's all aboutrelationships, it's all about
leveraging partnerships and it'sall about figuring out creative
ways to solve a problem right.
And that kind of leads to mynext question does anything come
(06:53):
to mind right off hand about acreative way that you secured
funding or solved a problem andI've got it on my question here
infrastructure.
But it doesn't have to benecessarily an infrastructure
problem that you solved.
It could be any any problemthat potentially has come up
with the town of Mesa.
Speaker 2 (07:10):
And you know we can't do everything at once.
Right, we got to plan, bedisciplined and communicate
early in the process.
One creative funding that comesto mind is we recently combined
state funds with town funds andappropriation from our state
legislative on a street pavingproject.
We just paved about 95% of ourstreets that hasn't been done
(07:33):
probably sent the interpretationof the paving in town so we got
rid of all the potholes and allthat in town.
With being creative, withpartnerships and also uh,
recently on in the news, we werejust finished did a ribbon
cutting on the workforcedevelopment center, where we
took a old part of history oftown and preserved that history
(07:54):
and using it for something.
Speaker 1 (07:55):
Yeah, I saw that.
Talk about that project alittle bit.
I had eliminated a questionthat I was going to talk about a
shrinking workforce and stufflike that.
Talk a little bit about thatproject, because I think that's
just a really interestingproject.
Speaker 2 (08:08):
Yeah, like you said, youth migration and small town
losing population.
I think that project, you knowwe're creating reasons for what
Young people to stay right, likejob training opportunities,
support and, you know, improvingpublic spaces.
You know our training workforceis an example of that.
We took that partnerships,again, we can't do everything
(08:29):
alone because we just don't havethe capacity.
With LCC and Golden Leaf we'llgrant to fund that train depot
to create a workforcedevelopment center where it's
going to give young peopleopportunities to train for
plumbing jobs, electrical, hvac,you know, water and sewer jobs,
which is critical to, I think,the nation.
I think I just read a blog thatmillionaires in I think the 70s
(08:54):
was all of guys.
Then the tech guys came in andnamed us.
They said the next wave ofmillionaires will be these
workforce development jobs.
Speaker 1 (09:02):
You're exactly right, because obviously I'm a little
bit older than you, a little bit, but growing up, man, it was
like it gets kind of beat inyour head hey, if you want to
get a good good paying job, getyour undergraduate degree right.
Then after that, when youstarted getting the influx of
folks getting theirundergraduate degrees, it was
like hey, you want to get a goodjob, you need to get your
(09:24):
master's and or your PhD.
And over the years folks havebeen indoctrinated into that
concept Not saying it's a badconcept at all, because those
things are needed.
I did it, my kids did it.
But at some point in time whenyou start doing that, you have
no one going into the trades andthat's why a plumber can make
(09:45):
$100 plus an hour.
That's why a HVAC guy or a goodmechanic or electrician or
whatever can make really goodmoney because of the supply and
demand.
So to get a plumber and I'lljust say Mark Burnett, I'm going
to give him a plug, he's myplumber.
To get Leonard Honeycutt he'smy electrician.
I'm very fortunate.
(10:06):
But to get someone like that tocome to your house for a
one-off job is hard.
Speaker 2 (10:10):
It's hard.
I tell people all the time youknow we're dealing in the water
and sewer business.
Speaker 1 (10:14):
People have leaks all the time I tell folks I can
make a million out of it Just inMaysville Just fixing leaks and
you talked about all those youknow being a doctor, going to
college and getting these officejobs or whatever you know, and
I'm scared to go under my houseI probably can't fit underneath
(10:36):
my house, but I'm much like youman.
So you've talked aboutworkforce development.
You talk about that awesomecreative partnership with Lenore
Community College, golden Leaf,town of Maysville, talk about
small business and talk aboutthings that you're doing,
because you've done some reallyneat things the last couple of
years to support small businessin your community.
Speaker 2 (10:58):
Correct.
We, we listen to what, whatthey need, right, whether it's
marketing, grant, access orinfrastructure, and we try to
remove those barriers.
We provide it along with thepartnership from the county.
So micro loans for smallbusinesses, you know and I
actually did the legwork, youknow, for those small you need a
grant.
I'll write it.
You don't have to do anythingbut tell me what you need so
(11:18):
that support making permittingprocess simplified, right?
You know what I mean.
You want to come and start abusiness.
Speaker 1 (11:24):
A lot of cities and towns need to listen to what
you're doing, because getting apermit for something can be very
difficult.
Speaker 2 (11:29):
Right, and I noticed that.
You know, and that could be abarrier.
You know, in small towns likeMaysville we can't be a stranger
, it's just Jacksonville or NewBern.
So we try to simplify that.
You know we want to be.
Our tagline is naturallywelcoming, right?
So we want to welcome everybody, whether it's a business or
whatever.
So we try to remove thosebarriers.
Speaker 1 (11:48):
So is your little, that little area that you were
creating.
I was fortunate enough to servewith you on the Community 100
for Jones County and this ideapopped up.
I'm not ashamed to say Iactually made the motion to help
with this project because Ijust thought it was a wonderful
idea.
Speaker 2 (12:03):
Talk about that Again , other partnerships, and you
made that motion.
I can remember John being aneconomist coming out and saying
that he'd never seen somethingimprove so fast, you know.
And that Maysville Marketplacewas an idea that we had an empty
lot that was being overgrownand we took that and put out six
10-by-12 sheds forentrepreneurs to come in and
(12:23):
have a space that is relativelycheap to start their business,
and that marketplace has grown.
We have added another shedwhich is a half salon.
We have two seasoned rentals.
As we speak, my lady isactually doing coffee and tea
now and that is pleased with herbusiness.
We have a t-shirt kind of giftmaker in one, and one lady is
(12:44):
doing produce.
We even had a guy that come inand I didn't think it would do
good.
He did the same thing but he'sselling feed dog food, and that
business has grown.
Speaker 1 (12:53):
He was one of the first ones, wasn't he?
Correct, yeah.
Speaker 2 (12:56):
And he's just growing out the seams.
He has added another shed outthere.
We're looking in the budgetthis year to add additional shed
.
So it's doing what it'sintended to do and they're able
to come there.
They can come in there and rentit for a season for like 600
bucks a year you know I mean,and 25 bucks a weekend.
Speaker 1 (13:14):
You know you talk about entrepreneurship and
helping the people startup,entrepreneurship, innovative,
creative thinking, thinkingoutside the box, with the
seasonal traffic, with the beachcoming through, coming right
down.
17 to head down 58.
Is that 58 to to head?
down highway 50 correct to headdown highway 58, be on your
(13:34):
right, right, not far from thetown hall and everything, and
it's just something just unique.
So kudos for that, man.
That was a great idea.
Man, that was an awesome idea.
Well, unfortunately it can'talways be balloons and sunshine,
right?
Tell me as a leader and tell meas town manager, how do you?
They are tough conversations,whether it's budget related,
(13:55):
it's something going on, and, astown manager, you're going to
talk to citizens when, evenbeyond budget, when something's
going on in the community.
Talk to me about how you handlethose tough conversations and
or criticism.
Speaker 2 (14:07):
You know, first with humility, you know, and honesty,
right, criticism come with thejob.
Humility and honesty, right.
Criticism comes with the job, Ialready know that and you're
pretty sure you've beencriticized some things, but it
does come with the job.
And again, I try to be withhumility and honesty.
Number one I don't take itpersonal, right.
We get criticized, whether it'sthrough an eval or anything.
(14:30):
We kind of take it personal andI try not to take it personal
and I try to create a space, youknow, for dialogue.
Let's talk about it.
Speaker 1 (14:37):
Let's talk about your list.
Listen to it.
Goes back to listening, right?
Speaker 2 (14:41):
Right.
And again, you know what withcriticism and I teach my kids
all the time right with ourshortfalls, let's take
responsibility for it.
Right, let's acknowledge that Ihad a shortfall, you know, and
I think that goes a long way.
It was like, all right, we gotit wrong.
Okay, let's talk about it andlet's fix it.
Speaker 1 (14:57):
And we always say this, and I don't think you're
putting lipstick on it, butpeople always talk about a
problem or a situation orwhatever.
But it's an opportunity.
Yeah, let's talk about the whybehind the back choice, back to
(15:17):
why.
That's yours right, that's youknow, when you go back to trust,
you know it's built.
What one conversation at a time, that's exactly right.
So, rural leaders leading in arural community what's one
leadership skill that isespecially important when you're
leading in your setting?
And I think you may havealready hit on it, but in case
you haven't, I'll give you thisopportunity or you can, you know
, talk about that well, I thinkit's adaptability.
Speaker 2 (15:33):
I mean, we're constantly changing.
You might have a different wordfor it that you was thinking,
but I think that we got to adapt.
Whether it's a storm, whetherit's a business that's needing a
budget fall, we have to adaptwith every opportunity.
I mean, we can't be rigid.
Speaker 1 (15:52):
Shimani, I think being in a small community.
Some would say that that's aweakness or whatever because of
things, but I think yourweakness is also your greatest
strength, because beingadaptable and being able to move
large towns, large cities,large communities they don't
necessarily always possess thatadaptability.
Personal experience worked forthe local electric cooperative
(16:14):
for 30 plus odd years.
Our leadership, our governancewith our board directors was
local, so we were able to maybemake decisions, do things a
little bit quicker than theinvestor in utility Duke Energy
or Carolina Power and Light orthe city of New Bern or whatever
.
It didn't have to go up somesort of really structured
(16:35):
corporate ladder or whatever.
So by us being small, local,grounded in the community, that
smallness was actually to ourbenefit and I would say probably
the town of Maysville is thesame way.
That's exactly right.
Yeah, so you may leave somebodyout here.
Talk to me about unsung heroesin your town and tell me how you
(16:57):
, as a leader, you lift them upand you support them.
Speaker 2 (17:00):
Yeah, you know, again you could leave somebody out.
We always talk about fire andpolice, right?
Speaker 1 (17:07):
They are the heroes, right?
They're the superstars.
Speaker 2 (17:09):
Right, they get all the recognition.
Speaker 1 (17:10):
Yeah, they are the heroes, they're the superstars.
They get all the recognitionand much deserved.
Speaker 2 (17:13):
By the way, let's think about our public works.
It's a beautiful thing to gothere and turn your faucet on
and flush your toilet until itdoesn't happen, and then much
like electricity and we canargue we can do without the
police, always those cons, butgo there and not be able to turn
on your water and flush yourtoilet.
(17:34):
That's a problem every day.
So you know, in our admin staff, you know you talk about them
and they don't get muchrecognition.
You know, and the volunteers,right Yep, who keep the events
going, I mean so those are someunsung heroes that hardly ever
get in the headlines.
Speaker 1 (17:49):
And how do you support them?
Speaker 2 (17:50):
You know I try to celebrate them publicly.
Right, we try to do that, tryto give public works better
tools.
Right, you know we support, youknow, admin, whatever.
You know if it's a new computer, if it's, you know, a new pen
or if it's an office paper, youknow you try to support them
every day and make sure thatthey're valued.
And leadership means shininglight on others and you know
(18:13):
you're not standing in it, youknow I mean.
So I don't want to stand like,I want to shine a light on the
public works staff.
The volunteers, the police, thefire, so and I think you would.
Speaker 1 (18:20):
You would agree with this.
You're only as good as theemployees that work, so I always
use this phrase working.
I may have had 20 people thatwere quote, I guess for me or
underneath me or whatever.
I always said when I wastalking about somebody.
Somebody might say, hey, who'sthat?
And I'd say, oh, that's Joe, heworks with me.
(18:40):
He might report to me, but heworks with me.
But at the same time I alwaysunderstood if an employee
understands their role and theirpurpose and understand what
their part of the greater good,then they're appreciated, they
understand their job and they'll.
Speaker 2 (19:01):
You know, employees will do almost anything if you
show them that correct, yeah,and sort of like, with y'all got
a lot of trucks, a lot lot ofequipment right Maysville got
soil plant, water plant, trucks,computers, all that.
But I'd be as accurate as thosefolks that clock out at 5
o'clock every day 100% agreewith you, man.
Speaker 1 (19:18):
So let's talk long term.
20 years from now I will be 77and let's hope I'll be standing
upright Long term.
What do you hope people sayabout Shemotty Brown and the
leadership he has brought andwill hopefully continue to bring
to the town of Maysville andthe community and Jones County?
Speaker 2 (19:38):
Okay.
So first I want people tounderstand.
I want I mean, there's a quotethat said we're creating shade
for others to sit under.
Whatever I'm doing now is notfor me to sit up on that shade
tree, it's for others.
You know, I want Maysville tobe known for a place that honors
its history right whilecreating a future for everybody
right, where families feel safe,businesses can thrive and young
(20:00):
people want to stay there rightTwenty years from now, I hope
they say that I live with oneintegrity right, we want to
always have that integrity thatI brought people together, try
to have community engagement asmuch as I could and lay the
groundwork for growth.
That that didn't leave anyonebehind, whether it was age, race
or whatever.
It didn't leave anyone behind.
Speaker 1 (20:20):
That's awesome.
You pretty much answered thelast question what does success
look like for you, not justprofessionally, but for the
community as a whole?
I think I think your answerthere just really tackled both
of them.
So I prepped you with thosequestions.
You knew what I was going toask you there.
Now I've got a couple.
I really think that greatleaders in our community, there
are certain things that they do,there are certain traits that
(20:41):
they have, whether it's acertain this or a certain that,
and so each podcast I'm going totalk to the guest about the
various questions that I'm askedas related to that topic that
day.
But then at the end I'm goingto ask every guest these same
(21:04):
questions and over time I'm justgoing to kind of see how this
shakes out little informal polland just say, hey, yeah, so 80%
of the guests said this or somesort of maybe a term or some
sort of theme or something likethat.
So they're not difficultquestions, they're just it's
kind of honestly getting to knowa little more about Shemani
Brown.
So, with that said, when youthink of the word successful,
(21:26):
who's the first person who comesto mind, and why?
Speaker 2 (21:29):
I want to say Jesus Christ.
You know, just because of myreligious background and I was
raised in the church and alwaysputting God first.
Speaker 1 (21:39):
And I think you really don't have to answer why
from that?
I think everybody pretty muchknows that, as why Don't know,
if you're a moviegoer or a bookreader, what is your favorite
documentary or movie orpotential book?
Speaker 2 (21:54):
of all time it probably is a tough one, but I'm
going to go back.
I mean again, I don't want tohop in.
I'm not trying to changeanybody, but the greatest book
ever wrote to me is the.
Bible Absolutely Correct I mean, I'd take a lot of that and put
it into my life.
You don't even have to be areligion just to learn from you.
(22:18):
Know that Bible.
Speaker 1 (22:19):
You know and a lot of whether.
However and this isn't areligious show, but regardless
of how you feel, but justreading it as a historical
document and a lot of thelessons learned and with the
parables and just a lot ofthings associated with that,
there are just a lot of greatstories that teach you about
being a good person and doingthe right thing, and I just
(22:40):
think that's what it is aboutbeing a good person and doing
the right thing.
Absolutely.
Speaker 2 (22:45):
But I am reading a book now that's called Shifting
the Monkey.
That was pretty intriguing tome because I'm a leader that I
like to get hands on and do alot.
But it tells you that to keepthose good people and separate
the bad employees, kind of shiftthose jobs and making sure that
they're doing that Shifting themonkey.
Speaker 1 (23:03):
All right, excellent.
Let's talk about morningrituals.
What does the first 60 minutesof every day look like for
Shemani Brown?
Speaker 2 (23:14):
I think it's looked like what my life is.
It's looking and caring forothers.
My wife was diagnosed with ALS,so my first 60 minutes is
taking care of her and that'swhat's been in my life.
A lot is taking care of others,Taking care of others.
Speaker 1 (23:29):
True servant leader man.
So this one's a tough one.
If you had to speak aboutsomething, if you were asked to
speak about something and togive a TED Talk about something
outside of your main area ofexpertise, you couldn't talk
about being the town manager ofthe town of Maysville.
What would be a topic that youwould talk about outside your
(23:52):
area of expertise?
Speaker 2 (23:54):
I'm a big baseball fan.
Speaker 1 (23:55):
Are you?
Speaker 2 (23:56):
Yes, I'm a big sports advocate, so I'm pretty sure it
would be on baseball.
Speaker 1 (24:01):
Somebody says hey, shemani, get there and talk 15
minutes about something, and youwould just get there talking
about baseball.
Speaker 2 (24:07):
That's correct.
Again, I think baseball isstarting to be a lost sport in
our community.
I would concur, I'm a bigadvocate of trying to bring that
back to the community.
I think I would go up there andtalk baseball Awesome.
Speaker 1 (24:18):
You mentioned something earlier and I don't
know if this is the same one.
Do you have a quote you liveyour life by or you think of
often?
Speaker 2 (24:26):
Too much is given, much is required.
Speaker 1 (24:28):
Absolutely Last one.
You may have something for this.
You may not have something forthis.
I just thought this was anintriguing question.
What do you believe is true?
What do you believe is trueeven though you can't prove it?
Speaker 2 (24:44):
I believe it's true that the earth is round.
Speaker 1 (24:46):
That's right.
Okay, so you are not a Dukebasketball player Kyrie Irving.
Speaker 2 (24:53):
Kyrie Irving.
Speaker 1 (24:55):
You don't fall down in the sphere of Kyrie Irving
that the earth is flat, correct.
I would say that I concur withyou on that assessment.
So listen, that's a wrap,shemani.
Thank you so much, and listen,that's this episode of
Consulting from the Couch.
Big thanks to you, man, forsharing what it really takes to
lead in a small town, and thewins, the challenges and the
(25:19):
heart that it takes behind itall, and to the listeners.
Thank you for listening.
If you like this episode ofConsulting from the Couch, be
sure to follow us by going toblcconsultingllccom.
I had to add LLC in therebecause somebody had BLC
consulting, soblcconsultingllccom.
Leave a quick review or shareit with someone who loves
(25:42):
hearing just local stories aboutlocal leaders and what they're
doing.
Until next time, I'm SteveGoodson and talk soon.
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I’m Jay Shetty host of On Purpose the worlds #1 Mental Health podcast and I’m so grateful you found us. I started this podcast 5 years ago to invite you into conversations and workshops that are designed to help make you happier, healthier and more healed. I believe that when you (yes you) feel seen, heard and understood you’re able to deal with relationship struggles, work challenges and life’s ups and downs with more ease and grace. I interview experts, celebrities, thought leaders and athletes so that we can grow our mindset, build better habits and uncover a side of them we’ve never seen before. New episodes every Monday and Friday. Your support means the world to me and I don’t take it for granted — click the follow button and leave a review to help us spread the love with On Purpose. I can’t wait for you to listen to your first or 500th episode!
Stuff You Should Know
If you've ever wanted to know about champagne, satanism, the Stonewall Uprising, chaos theory, LSD, El Nino, true crime and Rosa Parks, then look no further. Josh and Chuck have you covered.
The Joe Rogan Experience
The official podcast of comedian Joe Rogan.