September 22, 2025 • 51 mins
Clark and Esther dive into the challenges of running a contracting business while trying to keep faith, family, and work in balance—and why protecting your marriage is just as important as growing your company.
• How ignoring your spouse’s perspective can slowly erode connection
• The hidden dangers of letting business stress spill over into your home life
• Why transparency about financial struggles builds more trust than hiding them
• The importance of scheduling recovery time instead of always pushing harder
• Practical ways to invite your spouse into decision-making without overwhelming them
• How regular check-ins about priorities prevent resentment from building
• Why spiritual grounding helps you weather business storms as a family
• Recognizing when it’s time to seek outside counseling before patterns worsen
If you’re feeling the strain of balancing business, marriage, and faith, reach out to us for a free call to help you set up systems that protect what matters most.
Join us January 11–13 in Nashville for the Chart the Course 2026 Planning Retreat. Sign up now and get three free coaching sessions before the event to finish 2025 strong and hit 2026 with a clear game plan. At the retreat, you’ll tackle systems, hiring, marketing, and leadership alongside ambitious contractors, leaving with a blueprint for growth. Spots are limited—visit prostruct360.com to learn more!
Have a question or an idea to improve the podcast?
Email us at team@prostruct360.com
Want to learn more about our software or coaching?
Visit our website at ProStruct360.com
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:01):
Welcome to Contractor Cuts, where we cover the good,
the bad and the ugly of growinga successful contracting company
.
Speaker 2 (00:13):
Welcome to Contractor Cuts.
My name is Clark Turner.
Thank you for joining us againthis week.
So today I've got a veryspecial guest.
My all-time favorite human onthe earth, my wife Esther Turner
, is here joining us.
Hey, everybody, I've twisted herarm and brought her in to come
(00:34):
and join us, as last week wetalked if you missed last week,
go back and listen to that.
We were talking aboutcontractors and how we put our
companies first, how weoftentimes neglect our family,
our kids, our wives, ourhusbands, our relationships in
life, and doing it insacrificing those relationships
(00:56):
to building this company.
And so we dove deep into someof James's growth as he grew
through from his 20s into his30s and you know, growing from
an employee into an owner andwhat that entails and how it
affected his personal life andhis marriage.
And today we're going to dive alittle deeper into mine.
(01:17):
So I brought my wife in to talkabout her experience.
So this is a great one.
Send to your wife after youlisten to it if you like it.
Send to your husband after youlisten to it and you like it.
This is a great one.
Send to your wife after youlisten to it.
If you like it send to yourhusband.
If you, after you, listen to itand you like it, this is a
great one to listen toseparately and have a
conversation.
I think we're going to end witha couple things you can do
right now to kind of open upsome of these communication
lines.
But today we're going to pickEsther's brain on what it's like
(01:41):
being married to a contractorwho is super flawed and who has
had a lot of growth in thejourney of marriage during
owning and running a contractingcompany.
So thanks for joining us, yeah,so let's start from the
beginning.
So we're going to run throughkind of our story starting the
(02:01):
company and then kind of kind ofhave Esther give us advice that
she would have given herselfwhen we started and what she
would tell me when we started,all the way through kind of the
different phases of growing acompany from a one-man show
through where we're at today.
But kind of rewinding the clock.
We have been married for 19 anda half years.
(02:21):
We're coming up on our 20 yearanniversary.
We got married in May of 2006.
And I started this company inAugust of 2006.
Yeah, so it was very soon after.
I think our entire marriageoutside of those first few
months has been me owning aconstruction company.
Speaker 1 (02:44):
Yeah, I had no idea you were going to be an
entrepreneur.
Speaker 2 (02:47):
Yeah, that was kind of that was not what I signed up
for.
Yeah, me neither.
But we fell backwards into thatand that's a whole nother story
of how I got into construction.
But we, we didn't know what wewere doing.
We jumped off a cliff togetherand it was the best of times and
it was the worst of times, andlet's kind of cover that.
So the first three years of ourmarriage were rough.
By year three we were getting adivorce, we were done.
(03:10):
We were both over the otherperson.
I was running a company.
I was a one man show till about2012.
So for the first six years Iwas kind of skinning my knees,
learning the hard way, runningit myself.
So that was kind of phase oneof the company and our marriage.
And so that season was me goingfrom working for a company.
(03:34):
I came out of college, workedfor a construction company and
then started my own company, andin those years Esther was
working as well.
You know, she went to graduateschool, got her master's and
then went and got a job, and sowe were both working, figuring
out marriage, figuring out life.
We did a lot of things rightand more things wrong.
Speaker 1 (03:56):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (03:57):
And I think that's one of the topics in terms of
looking.
You know, first question foryou looking at that phase of our
marriage.
I know it was forever ago.
Speaker 1 (04:10):
So long ago so so long?
Speaker 2 (04:12):
What?
What do you think, looking back, starting a company, if you
could give 24 year old Estherand 24 year old Clark advice,
what would you say right now?
What?
What would you have donedifferently?
Uh, would you have donedifferently?
And what do you think you know,if you could speak to us back
then, 20 years ago almost, whatadvice would you give?
Speaker 1 (04:32):
I would have gone to therapy sooner.
Speaker 2 (04:34):
Yeah, yes, absolutely , yep, that's a good.
Speaker 1 (04:38):
Yeah, I think I, when we got married you, I didn't
even know you had theentrepreneur bug, and so I mean
I should have known we weretogether for a long time and I
knew that you couldn't work foranybody.
Um, you didn't like rules oranyone telling you what to do
what, so I should have seen thered flags but I did it yeah um.
(05:01):
So I think we got married and Ithink I expected like, okay,
normal nine to five job.
That's what I grew up with.
I mean, my dad was a pastor buthe came home at normal hours
and we saw him and all that sortof stuff.
I think when you started yourcompany, we were really excited,
or sorry, I said we, we didn'thave kids yet.
(05:23):
I was really excited, Sorry, Isaid we, we didn't have kids yet
.
I was really excited for youand then quickly it turned into
whoa, this is not fun for me.
I never see you.
Yeah, you were constantlyworking.
There is no off switch.
There is no.
Okay, turn your phone off.
(05:44):
Yeah, is no um, okay, turn yourphone off.
You were just constantly,constantly, constantly doing
something for the company andfor the job in hopes of, of, of
building it, and I don't.
I didn't understand that.
Speaker 2 (05:55):
And I didn't.
I was very resistant to itespecially at the beginning, and
I think on the other side of itit was like I hadn't.
I had no coach.
I had no idea of what to do.
All I knew is that we weren'tgoing to pay the rent unless I
hustled Right and I felt this,you know, going from a single
(06:16):
person to a married person,there was this like oh, I gotta,
I gotta provide, I gotta buildthis family, we want to have
kids at some point, I gotta like.
And so it was like you say yesto every job, you say yes to
everybody, and you just go andsacrifice and burn out and just
grind Right.
And that was that was kind ofthe mindset in the beginning,
(06:37):
which, in hindsight, I mean thatthat there is a positive to
that.
Speaker 1 (06:42):
Well, there's a necessity.
Speaker 2 (06:43):
Yeah, there's a necessity to it.
But you know, I think in anyother phase of our life that
would have ended a lot worsethan it did, and it almost did.
I mean it almost ended.
It ended up where we were forsure getting divorced, sitting
in a therapist's office saying,yeah, we're getting divorced,
(07:06):
but how do we kind of moveforward?
And we went through therapy fora week in and a week out for
six months and ended up comingout the other side in a really
good way, and we'll talk aboutthat in a second.
But I think, starting thecompany and going into it, all I
knew was just work your buttoff and just go and if someone
calls you, hop in the truck andget to their job site.
I didn't know boundaries, Ididn't know how to do, like our
(07:27):
client engagement agreement thatwe have now, where we lay out
what we can and can't do for you, what you should expect out of
us.
All of that stuff I didn't havein place.
And so it was a work first,family second mentality of I'm
doing this for us, this is not,you know, like Esther, just
chill, this is for us.
Don't you want us to have this?
Speaker 1 (07:47):
Right, I don't think and I don't think the burn hit
us until we had kids.
Speaker 2 (07:52):
That's true, that's true.
Speaker 1 (07:53):
I think, sure, we went through a phase at the
beginning, before we had kids,but that was just, that was a
precursor to well.
Thankfully we went through thatso that we could, once we had
kids, we had the language totalk about it, because it got
bad when we had kids too.
Speaker 2 (08:12):
That's true.
Yeah, real bad that first wedidn't like each other, went
through counseling and likedeach other and kind of started a
new relationship.
Coming out of counseling,that's a whole nother story.
We started dating at 16 andkind of had some really bad
foundation of what arelationship looks like and so
(08:34):
we kind of tore it down, wentthrough therapy, rebuilt how to
be a husband, how to be a wife,how to have the language of
communicating with the otherperson needs, how to have the
language of communicating withother person needs.
And then we spent two years ayear, probably about a year,
year and a half post therapybefore you got pregnant, yeah,
and during that time you're inschool, you're getting your
(08:55):
master's and we were kind of atthat point pre-kids, we were
roommates that liked each other,that you know, it was friends
with benefits, but also like wewere married and we all.
But we did our own thing right,like I kind of ran my company,
you were getting your masters.
It wasn't a us doing ittogether, I don't think.
(09:15):
And and then when we had ourfirst child 14 years ago, um, it
was a bit of a shock because Ithink you went, you, you
literally walked down the aisleof graduation for your master's
two weeks before our first childwas born.
Speaker 1 (09:34):
Oh yeah.
Speaker 2 (09:35):
And so it was like, hey, you're going to be at home
with the, with our daughter, andI was making enough that we can
figure out how to live on oneincome, and I was making enough
that we can figure out how tolive on one income.
But it was, we had kind of seta foundation of I'm doing my
thing, you take care of the kids, not a team, not us doing it
together.
Yeah, no.
Speaker 1 (09:56):
And it was a shock for me.
I mean, for me it was.
I had her and went throughpostpartum depression which I
didn't even know.
I didn't know until I came outthe other side that that's even
what was going on for me.
You were grinding.
I went through school, I hadhad a job, I was used to doing
(10:18):
my own thing and then, all of asudden, I had nothing and I had
this kid who I loved dearly butalso was deeply, deeply sad.
Speaker 2 (10:28):
Well, and you're a doer Like you want to be out
doing stuff, getting stuff done,doing it, and I was jealous of
everything that you got to dothat I did not get to do.
Speaker 1 (10:37):
I was.
I was jealous that you got toleave the house without, without
having to worry about like.
You got to get dressed, you gotto take a shower, you got to
like.
I couldn't do any of thatanymore and it was just awful
for me.
Speaker 2 (10:52):
Yeah, and in that moment, instead of engaging,
instead of feeling for me,saying hey, you know what I feel
, like there's some unhappinesshere.
I'm like, well, you handle that, I'll handle this, see you
tonight.
And so I think on my side itwas not a hey, she's struggling,
there's some attitude, there'ssome, there's some clashing when
(11:15):
we have conversations.
So I need to double down onengagement.
Speaker 1 (11:19):
Instead, it was like hey, you need to go take care of
you.
Speaker 2 (11:24):
She's depressed, so she needs to handle that Right,
and so it was more of a handsoff approach on my side, which I
regret, and you know, inhindsight it's a.
What you have to do in thosesituations is put everything on
the table.
Right, we're going to talkabout it.
I like, hey, I feel like when Icome home you're angry, yeah,
right.
Speaker 1 (11:44):
We're going to talk about it.
Speaker 2 (11:45):
I like, hey, I feel like when I come home you're
angry.
Yeah, hey, I feel like when,when we were talking the other
night, you just were giving meone word answers, you're sure
Like what's going on, what'shappening?
Speaker 1 (11:52):
Right.
Speaker 2 (11:53):
And I don't think I did that well at all and I think
there was a system of everyonejust takes you know kind of
warfare.
Keep your head low, everyonetake care of themselves and
hopefully we come out on theother side.
Speaker 1 (12:04):
Well, and I think there was also a mentality of,
because we used to both work andthen we stopped working and it
was the agreement that I stayedat home which was fine, but it
was more of like that's your job.
And it was like you've got tobe able to sleep all night.
So that you can be present foryour clients and blah, blah blah
(12:25):
.
And oh, Esther, you can take anap with the baby, um, so you're
fine.
And and so it was.
It was that mentality that weboth and I, I fed into it too.
I was like all right, fine.
Like yeah, he's got to likefunction, so fine, I won't ask
him to help me in the middle ofthe night, but I was angry about
(12:45):
it.
Speaker 2 (12:46):
Well, and it doesn't mean there's a reality to it.
It doesn't mean I'm going to beup doing all the feedings every
night, right, but if I, twice aweek, gave you the night and I
fed the, baby and.
Friday and Saturday are mineright, like, like, as opposed to
.
Well, that's your job, that'smy job.
I don't want to do it, soyou're just going to handle it
(13:06):
Right, like, I think that's,that was the it's just.
You know, an inch is whatyou're looking for.
You're not looking for me torun the whole mile.
Like, you just need a littlebit of engagement to where
you're seen, where it's like,it's not a hey Esther, you know,
(13:28):
like I'm I got stuff to do.
Right, this is your job.
Right, you don't work and I'mdoing this for us.
Like this is, this is somethingthat we need, our family needs
me to go work and like I don'twant to, but I'm sacrificing for
us, so I need to sleep right,like, like it, like it, it.
It was a uh, a not goodmentality, um, but I think it
was something that we, we grewthrough and I think, had some,
(13:50):
some resolution a little bitthroughout it.
I think you were good atspeaking up um, eventually, once
your dams broke, um, but Ithink it was.
We would have buildups andexplosions and conversations and
we worked through it, I think.
I think, in hindsight, if I wastalking to the 28 year old
(14:10):
Clark, father of one with, witha wife at home, it would be, you
know, just giving an inch.
Staying up one night a week,two nights a week, is not
committing to doing it everynight.
Right, it wasn't like I like, itwasn't all or nothing, it was
like just just engage.
(14:31):
You know, in the mindset of that, I hid behind of I'm doing this
for us, I'm building us acompany.
We just got to grind throughthis season to get to the next
was more of an excuse to nothave to engage, to not have to
sacrifice.
I think, and we all standbehind this.
Hey, you know, this is for us.
And as soon as we get to here,as soon as we get to the next
(14:53):
phase, as soon as we grow, likemy company, I just got to make
one higher and then we can relax, and then I won't have to get
up at midnight to write thatestimate Like as soon as I get
to the next, it's going tohappen.
I think one of our like,overarching from day one through
five years ago, four years ago,three years ago, even as soon
(15:13):
as I get to X, then Y willhappen, and I think that was one
of the worst things in ourmarriage is there was always a
neck, you know, and there alwaysis.
Yes, yeah, and there's always anext season.
And as soon as I did achievesomething like well, I've bit
off three more things because ofopportunity.
Speaker 1 (15:33):
Right.
Speaker 2 (15:33):
Right.
And so it was like well, butI've got this and I'm going to
do this, and like, if I couldjust.
And so the goalposts for youwere moved constantly.
Speaker 1 (15:40):
Right, which is not good for my personality.
Speaker 2 (15:42):
No.
Speaker 1 (15:42):
And and it's not good for most personalities who are
partnered with an ADD dreamerwhich is you and most
contractors are.
Speaker 2 (15:55):
And I was optimistic, always optimistic, like, oh,
but it will be great thenbecause of this and I can rose
colored glasses as soon as thishappens, then we'll be good.
As soon as I got to get up to 2million in revenue.
When I get there, we're goingto cruise Right.
And there was always a and onmy side it was, it was a hundred
(16:15):
percent true.
Speaker 1 (16:16):
Like in my brain.
Speaker 2 (16:17):
it was like, yeah, as soon as that happens and we get
there, I'm like, well, there'sa bigger, bigger piece of the
pie.
Then, like let's keep going,like let's, let's run for you.
It was like, hey, I need you torun one more mile and you're at
like 99% there and it's like,hey, we got two more miles to go
.
Speaker 1 (16:33):
you're like I you keep moving yes, goalposts yes
for me and for my expectationsand for my uh what, where I'm
ready to stop yeah, yeah, the,the, what is it?
Speaker 2 (16:46):
the path to to hell is the what is it I don't know
what you're saying are coveredin good intentions, like I
always had good intentions, yes,and I always like it was not me
like manipulating, it wasn't melike just feeding you a line I
legit.
If we could get there, I'll behappy.
Speaker 1 (17:06):
And that's the only thing I think that saved us is
because I truly that's somethingthat I do believe in.
I don't I believe that yourintentions are so good.
I don't ever believe thatyou're trying to pull one over
on me or manipulate me.
I truly see like your dream orheart, and I love that about you
.
So that's why I held on for solong, but eventually things had
(17:32):
to get put in place uh, plans,logistics, all the things that
you talk about putting thesystems and the processes.
Those had to get put in place,or else we wouldn't have been
able to keep going yeah, I meanAt that pace.
Speaker 2 (17:48):
That's right.
I've said it before Everysystem and process that
ProStruck coaches is put in wasbuilt out of what you did wrong
our arguments.
Absolutely, it's literally.
I've and I say this to new guyscoming to the coaching program
like I have skinned my knee soyou don't have to like oh yes
implement some of this stufflike it's not.
(18:09):
I'm not a guru, it's just I'vemade all the all the mistakes,
all, and so let me help you notmake those same mistakes, and I
think that's something you knownot.
I don't want to toot my ownhorn.
I think I'm good at learningfrom mistakes.
I think I think that whensomething happens, I was like,
okay, let me put something inplace to to not do that again.
Um, and I feel like that issomething that you saw in terms
(18:33):
of my movement towards you andlike, hey, I've got to put that
up.
I honestly think it was probablygo starting pro struct during
COVID, where I shifted a littlemore of my priorities, and I
think even over the last yearand a half, I've shifted
priorities even more in terms of, like, what do I want?
Do I want a bigger company ormore time with the family?
(18:55):
Right, and I think that's thathas been, more recently, the
biggest shift in terms of like,moving home, moving, moving,
closing my, my corporate officedown to where I can work out of
the backyard, stuff, like that,where it's like I want to be
here more often.
Speaker 1 (19:12):
Now, that is on the on the other end, right.
Speaker 2 (19:13):
That's after we're done.
But during the journey and kindof going backwards into the
journey, what do you think?
We had one kid, then two kidsand three kids and four kids,
four kids and six years.
What do you think if you couldgive me advice back then or
speak up for the Esther of thoseyears, what would you say to me
in retrospect and what wouldhave you done differently, or do
(19:36):
you think that you would havedone the same?
Speaker 1 (20:36):
Yeah, I, I have so much to say on that for me.
For me, um, uh, I think Ibitched and moaned a lot at you
and I would just pick fightswith you because I was just so
angry Like you pissed me off somuch.
You would come home late allthe time.
(20:57):
You told me one thing and youdidn't do it, and I would just
bark and yell at you.
Um, instead of telling you how Ifelt, like when you come home
late, it makes me feel like youdon't care about us.
When you tell me one thing,when you tell me you're going to
(21:19):
be here at five and then youget home at seven, all that
speaks to me is completerejection, that you don't care
about us, that we are the lastthing on your list.
And if I spoke to you moreabout my feelings instead of
just yelling at you, I thinkwould have been able to engage
you more.
Instead, I just yelled at youand so you yelled back and were
(21:40):
defensive of yourself, becauseyou were over here trying to
grow and trying to do all thisstuff for us and but it's, it's
for me.
Speaker 2 (21:48):
I mean, the excuse is for us and yeah, and you'll get
benefit if it works.
But at the same time, like itwas my choice to do that stuff,
I think one of the on the otherside of what you're saying for
me it was, if I can get awaywith stuff and keep my head low
and not get a bit off cool on totomorrow, which is not the
(22:11):
loving attitude.
That's not the attitude I wantguys to have who are dating my
daughter, who are going to marrymy daughter Right Like the.
The loving attitude of likeinstead of like I hope she
doesn't yell instead of like.
I hope that I don't hear thegarage door Cause.
I just hope that I can havesome alone time.
Speaker 1 (22:29):
Right.
Speaker 2 (22:30):
Switching from that attitude to like hey, if she
might yell, there might besomething bigger going on here,
Right, Well?
Speaker 1 (22:36):
and I'm yelling at you because I'm wanting to what?
What I'm too afraid to say,what I'm too afraid to voice, is
my vulnerability, that I feellike I don't matter, yeah.
And so instead I'm going to getangry, because, because what if
I approach you with I feel likeI don't matter?
And what if you say you'reright?
You don't.
And so it's easier for me tolead with anger, with
(23:02):
justifications, and I had everysingle justification.
I mean, I was right.
Yeah, like duh.
Speaker 2 (23:08):
And I'm coming home from a 14-hour day and you're
upset and I'm like but look whatI did, and I've done all this
and you don't understand.
Speaker 1 (23:17):
And I'm like look at these four children that are
still alive.
You're welcome.
Speaker 2 (23:21):
It's a shootout.
Speaker 1 (23:22):
And I didn't hurt anybody.
Speaker 2 (23:23):
Yep, yep, and it's.
It's a but what about me?
Right, and we got you knowwhenever we get into the what
but what about me argumentswhere we're both trying to show
ourselves the sad part is it'stwo kids trying to say, hey, I
need you to care for me, yep,right, and for us, it's.
If you are listening to thisand this is happening at home
(23:45):
right now, the answer is youjust look at the person and talk
about what you appreciate aboutthem.
Speaker 1 (23:52):
Somebody has to make the first step, Somebody has to
be vulnerable and if you as thecontractor and your wife or your
spouse is screaming at you,look at her and say what do you
need?
Speaker 2 (24:06):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (24:07):
Like what am I missing?
What am I not hearing?
Instead of getting defensivelike lead by example or, if you
are the spouse, lead withvulnerability.
That's all it is.
It's vulnerability meetsvulnerability.
Speaker 2 (24:21):
Yeah, Well, and the whole women, the love men need
respect.
The love and respect thing.
Like, if I come home and you'reyelling at me, I feel so
disrespected, yeah, and so whywould I give you like, why would
I show care and love for you?
And if I'm not, if I miss, ifI'm two hours late and you feel
unloved, why would you show merespect when you don't feel like
(24:44):
I even love you?
Right, and so, understandingthat and getting those tools in
your belt of like, as soon as Istart hitting the ding, ding,
like, oh, she's like like those,those feelings of the hair
sticking up and I'm ready toattack, If you just say the like
, go one step beyond the anger,go one step beyond.
(25:05):
Why like so if, if Esther isyelling at me because I'm, uh,
you know something happened, andshe's like well, you did this
and that, instead of sayingshe's angry, say what you know?
What did I do to hurt her?
Speaker 1 (25:16):
to make her feel angry.
What's beneath that?
Like she said whatever,whatever you're arguing about,
it's always there's somethingunderneath, and it's so hard
when you're in the middle of afight to think about that and
honestly like, if you're at thatpoint and if you keep having
that same circular thing, youneed therapy yeah, just go to
therapy.
Speaker 2 (25:36):
Therapy is it's just what you need yeah, well, and,
and I mean we went to there, I,I literally went to therapy to
fix esther and she went totherapy to fix me, to fix him
and we both went through it andfix ourselves.
Speaker 1 (25:49):
I was in school for my master's in therapy.
Speaker 2 (25:53):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (25:54):
And I had asked Clark for three years to go to
therapy with me and he was likenope, nope, nope, nope, nope.
And then I went to school forit and I was ready to say bye
and he was like, okay, let's goto therapy.
And I was like too little, toolate, dude.
And he was like you're going tolook like such a fraud becoming
a therapist, but you won't goto couples counseling with me.
And I was like fine, fine, I'lldo it.
Speaker 2 (26:16):
Best decision we ever made.
So again, it's, it's a, it's a.
Therapy Isn't a bad thing, itis nothing but health, and if
you're going to fix your spouse,go to fix your spouse.
And if they need to fix thetherapist, we'll help get there
and try to learn something aboutyourself in it.
But I think going through itit's a A someone's got to step
(26:39):
out of that dance.
Someone's got to stop the.
I'm mad at you, you're mad atme the pointing the fingers.
Yeah, on top of that, you know,going down our story, we had
kids.
I kept growing.
I think the moving the goalpostthing is one of the big things
that I would always do.
I think, secondarily, one thingyou voiced that we've talked
(26:59):
about a number of times isbecause I was running things and
I am very logical.
I can really logic myselfthrough every single decision.
A plus B equals C, so there'sno other reason to talk about
this.
C is the answer, and so becauseof that, esther was being cut
out of so many decisions that Iwas making that were affecting
(27:20):
our family, mostly financial.
Speaker 1 (27:22):
Financial decisions yeah.
Speaker 2 (27:23):
There was a lot of times.
There was times that we lostsix figures.
Speaker 1 (27:27):
Lost so much money that I didn't, clark, I mean.
I remember specifically twotimes that Clark came home and
was like hey, I've got to tellyou we just lost X amount of
dollars and it was six figures.
And I was like what the crap?
Like how did I not know?
And he's like well, it'sbecause I decided to do this.
(27:48):
And I was like I didn't know,you decided to do this, like
that was a huge decision thatyou completely left me out of,
like what?
Speaker 2 (27:59):
Yeah, it's.
I justified it as she didn'task, she didn't want to know.
Like she's doing her thing, I'mdoing mine.
In reality, it was a let mejust do this.
Let me.
Just try.
Speaker 1 (28:09):
Well, I think in your , because you are so optimistic,
you're like it'll work out,like there's no need.
There's no need to tell herIt'll be fine, it will not go
bad.
Speaker 2 (28:19):
Yeah Well.
So I think, learning from that,one big thing to do is have
some finance business meetings,like couples business meetings
of.
Let's sit down and talk aboutwhat's going on.
Let's engage each other.
Why don't you ask your wife doyou want to know about what's
going on?
Do you want to know about thefinances?
(28:39):
You want to know about mycompany?
What's happening?
And if they say no, say okay,well, big stuff's happening.
No one says no to that.
They're like yeah, please tellme what's happening with our
dollars.
What's going on?
What ventures are you starting?
What you know?
What?
Who are you partnering withwhat?
What's all happening to where?
If I get home, last thing Iwant to do is talk about the bad
stuff that happened today, andso if you're not asking, I'm not
(29:00):
telling.
And in three months later, thatbad decision or the bad thing
that happened has snowballedinto large losses.
And then it's like oh, I got totell her at some point point,
and so she's finding out afterthe fact every single time,
because she hasn't been involvedfrom start to finish.
So I think that's another bigone of how do you engage in the
(29:21):
soft times so when it gets hard,she knows she's on your team as
opposed to an enemy.
Speaker 1 (29:28):
I think that that's something in retrospect we would
have done definitelydifferently totally differently
and like trust that your spouseor your partner has it good
ideas.
Speaker 2 (29:41):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (29:41):
A good opinion, or it doesn't mean you have to do
everything that they say, but ifyou've got a good working
relationship with your spouse,like you should want to hear
from them.
You should want to hear theirthoughts.
I never tell you things whereI'm like oh you have to do this,
but I always give you anopinion, yeah.
(30:02):
Well and you've got 99.99 ofthe time.
I am right.
There's been hires that youhave made every single time.
There's been about three yeahwhere clark has hired somebody
and I've been like I don't likethem.
One one of one of the dudes Iused to work at t-mobile he this
(30:22):
is so random he came into mystore, he yelled at me.
I mean, he reamed me out aboutsomething, about his dumb cell
phone leaves the store.
Two weeks later I go to clark'soffice.
I see that dude and clark'slike I just hired him and I was
like that person is just ahorrible person.
(30:47):
He went, he and I told him andClark was like yeah, he's fine,
he's fine.
Guess what?
You fired him.
Speaker 2 (30:53):
Sure, the other side of that was I went through all
this interviews he I hired himas a project manager.
I needed a project manager, sobad I.
If you had a heartbeat and hadexperience in this industry, I
was going to hire you.
I didn't do a higher rightRight Like I didn't do the right
hire.
Speaker 1 (31:11):
Oh, you didn't.
You didn't have any of thosesystems and processes and
procedures that you do.
Speaker 2 (31:15):
But it was like oh, a relief, Cause I could dump jobs
on him and he will execute them.
Speaker 1 (31:20):
Right.
Speaker 2 (31:20):
And you came in and said that guy yelled at me like
two weeks ago, right, and so I'mlike that, sucks, I'm sorry
babe.
Uh, this is a fix for me, soI'm gonna keep them, uh.
And then, like a month and ahalf later, I had to fire him
because of some indiscretion.
Speaker 1 (31:36):
So it was and it that happened like two more times
not the guys didn't yell at me,but I was just like I don't like
I've got, I've got this gutintuition, you've got really
good discernment.
Which doesn't mean that youhave to like follow that Sure.
I just love knowing that I'mright, like it's fine, like at
this point.
Speaker 2 (31:53):
Well, it's a matter of I am so logical, I can out
lawyer you on anything.
Oh, and because of that I getalmost on a high horse of why
would you, why would I ask you,like it's?
Speaker 1 (32:08):
logic.
We should do this, right,esther?
You just feel.
Speaker 2 (32:10):
Yes, and and where I'd never valued that in the
past, of like there is somediscernment, there is some hey,
maybe like, what do you thinkabout this, what am I missing
here?
And and that's, that's acockiness, that's a, that's a um
self.
You know, uh, I'm better thanyou at this, so just let me make
those decisions, um, to whereit is something that, in
(32:34):
hindsight, a, even if I wasright, involving you in that
confirms it right, and if I'mwrong, involving you in that
might help me Right.
And to be able to kind, of hatin hand, look back and be like I
should have.
Maybe I'm not perfect, maybeI'm not good at that, maybe I
need to learn how to do thatbetter.
(32:55):
It's hard to do when you'rerunning a company and you know,
I think, going back to like thebeginning, when you're starting
a company, you're everything.
I'm the janitor and the CEO,I'm start to finish doing
everything and as an ADHD brain,it's great, I can, I can kill
it with that, but that alsomeans that I'm all over the
place when I get home.
I'm doing everything andgetting pulled in all these
directions as I grew the companyand kind of narrowed my job
(33:19):
description down into kind ofCEO isish into the company to
where I'm doing a lot less.
I could control my schedule alot more, I was home a lot more
often and it was easier on thatside.
But then I have the weight ofcarrying employees, then I have
the weight of there.
You know there were.
I think one of our biggestrecurring issues has been babe,
(33:42):
I'll be home at five, at 630,.
Esther texts me and says whereare you?
I think that's been over andover for 20 years.
It's been an issue for us.
Speaker 1 (33:54):
And it's not, honestly, it's not resolved.
Speaker 2 (33:58):
No, it happened last week it happened.
Friday.
Yeah, that being said, ifyou're listening to this, I'm
sure you haven't experiencedthis with your wife.
That happened Friday, yeah.
That being said, if you'relistening to this, I'm sure you
haven't experienced this withyour wife.
That being said, it issomething that I think we both
have worked on.
Yeah, you have worked on thegrace side and you are so good
at giving me excuses.
Speaker 1 (34:14):
Thank you.
Speaker 2 (34:15):
Yeah, You've been.
It is a blessing as a husbandto have you make.
Yeah, I'm sure he's busybecause of this.
Yeah, it's the benefit of thedoubt you build the benefit of
the doubt in for me.
Now I think we've gotten to aspot where that has grown more
and more because I have workedmy butt off on trying to do it
(34:39):
well and I think like I stillmiss it.
Like you said, friday, like Isaid, I said hey, our girls go
to school on Tuesdays andFridays.
That's her home school's.
Other days, on Friday they were.
She was picking them up atschool, got them.
I was like hey, get them, bringthem home.
Speaker 1 (34:52):
You moved your meeting.
I moved the meeting early forget.
Speaker 2 (34:56):
Get the kids home, they get.
I got a carpool line early, yepokay and I was like I'll be done
at four, get them them home.
We're going to go get burgers,we're going to have a fun Friday
night, we're you know all thisstuff.
Well, my three to four o'clockmeeting, there were some fires
we had to put out with thisclient and I was.
(35:18):
You know, for me I get a pop up10 minutes before my next
meetingclock meeting because itwas moved.
There was no pop-up to go hangout with the family.
So I'm on a, I'm on a call withone of our partners helping,
you know, coaching through someheavy stuff, and it just goes
and it just goes and goes andwhat I should have done is say,
hey, let's pick this up onMonday.
Like I got some.
(35:38):
I didn't think about it, I wasout of out of sight, out of mind
.
I'm not looking at the clock,we're just going.
It turns into about 440.
One of my daughters pops herhead in my office because I'm
working in the backyard.
Now, yep, I hear steps up thestairs and it pops in the head.
Speaker 1 (35:53):
Oh yeah, I sent her up there.
I was like go see what dad'sdoing.
Speaker 2 (35:59):
And I'm like, oh yeah , I got to go.
So I get off the meeting, Iwalk down to the house and
instead of getting chewed outwith attitude, I get a hey, are
we still got time for burgers?
Should we go to Mexican Right?
Like, I get this, this, it'sokay, and the kids are ready to
chew me.
You know, up and down they werehungry.
They get home from school andthey're starving.
Speaker 1 (36:16):
That was only because they were hangry, but they're
good with it.
They are.
Speaker 2 (36:19):
But I say that because you're justifying it to
them.
You're saying, girls, it's fine, Like we're going to get.
He had work that something wentover.
Speaker 1 (36:27):
We have built enough rapport over the years and I
know how hard you have worked atit.
Yeah, and so you have builtthat in by being as consistent
as you can be you.
Back in the day he would textme and say I'm leaving the
(36:50):
office, but he would still beinside of the office and so you
know it's a 10 minute drive home.
He would say I'm leaving theoffice.
Speaker 2 (36:56):
I'm packing up headed home.
Speaker 1 (36:57):
Yes, he would.
That's what you would say.
You would say I'm packing up.
Speaker 2 (37:00):
Yep.
Speaker 1 (37:01):
Oh my gosh.
I feel like I would say I'mpacking up.
Speaker 2 (37:04):
Yep, oh, my gosh.
I feel like I would say I'mpacking up to head home.
Speaker 1 (37:06):
It'd be six o'clock he say he's packing up.
It takes 10 minutes to drive,packing up takes one minute.
Okay.
And then seven o'clock he'srolling into the driveway and
I'm like what the crap?
Yeah like why?
Speaker 2 (37:23):
and so we talked well and on my side I was packing up
and I was headed home and thensomeone came into the office
I've got project managers andgeneral managers and office all
in the office with me and I'mpacked, well, no, what I'm
saying is, like I'm packing up,one of the guys walks in hey, we
got an issue, what's up?
Real quick, blah, blah, blah.
You got two minutes, yes, I got.
Yeah, well.
And so we start diving in andwe're diving in.
Hey, we got an issue, what's up?
Real quick, you got two minutes, yes, I got.
(37:44):
And so we start diving in andwe're diving in.
We're talking, we're talking,and on my side, I just made some
decisions that saved thecompany $20,000.
It's worth an extra 30 minutesof my time.
On your side, you're lefthanging from this text with
expectations.
Speaker 1 (38:02):
When I'm dying over here with four kids who I've
been home with all alone all day.
Speaker 2 (38:07):
Especially when they were younger, when they were
little.
It was awful.
It was like when I say I'mgoing to be home at 510,
starting about 450, you'recounting down the minutes
because it's like I just need topass the kid off, hand him the
baby and go outside for somefresh air.
Speaker 1 (38:23):
I can't be touched or spit up on one more.
Yes.
Speaker 2 (38:26):
And so when I say I'll be home at five, every 10
seconds, that I'm late, she is.
She is cursing my name, Right,and so it is one of those things
it still happens, though oflike I'm still speaking, like
hey, I told you one thing, I'mnot doing it.
I don't, I don't care aboutyour time, I'm more important
(38:51):
than you.
That's what I'm speaking to her, and so I.
What I got into, yeah, what Istarted doing probably eight
years ago, is I would, I wouldset one of those you know area
reminders that when I left myoffice and got out of a certain
radius, my phone would dingsaying text Esther.
And I'd text Esther and say I'mheaded home.
And to this day, if I'm outsomewhere and I'm headed home, I
text her.
When I'm in the car driving hey, I'm headed home.
If I'm at a buddy's house, ifI'm out to lunch or dinner with
(39:11):
someone, like hey, I'm headedhome is when I'm in the car
driving, Not when I'm about towalk to the car, cause anything
can happen.
So I'm in the car driving home,which changed.
Speaker 1 (39:21):
It changed everything because, especially for my
brain, like you're okay, likeeven personality wise, like
you're okay being a little bitlate places, me being on time is
10 minutes early, and so if yousay you are headed home, that
means I'm looking at the clockand however long it takes you to
get home, that's when I expectyou to walk in the door or you
(39:46):
know a catastrophe has happened,you know you're dead.
Speaker 2 (39:49):
He better be on the side of the road You're dead in
the ditch, hopefully, or elsehe's in trouble.
Exactly, yeah, so it was one ofthose things that was an easy
fix for me.
Speaker 1 (40:01):
It was so easy to change that and so helpful for
both of us because you know whatit built trust back because I
lost all trust in you of whenyou said you would do something
Well and benefit of the doubtworks when it happens randomly.
Speaker 2 (40:17):
It doesn't have on the fifth day in a row.
Speaker 1 (40:20):
It's like I can't give the benefit of the doubt,
I'm done.
I can't.
Speaker 2 (40:22):
Yeah, and so I mean it's like I can't give it, I
can't.
Speaker 1 (40:23):
Yeah, and so I mean, and then I'm just angry yes, so
that's something that literally.
Speaker 2 (40:28):
I mean, like I said, it happened Friday and I'm
working in the backyard Like it,it, it's still going to happen,
it's going to continue tohappen.
It will happen forever.
I'll be on my deathbed and I'llmiss dying by 10 minutes Right,
Like I will always be late.
That being said, like there isa grace that she gives, but also
the ability and I think this isone thing that I think we do
(40:48):
really well is we're good atraising flags of like hey, or,
if you're prickly, I think I'vebeen good at saying hey, what's
up?
Speaker 1 (40:58):
You're very good at that.
Speaker 2 (41:00):
If I come home, like one word answers to you.
You're like hey you stop, yougrab my arm and say what's going
on, like what's happening, andI think that is the small
difference of a healthy andunhealthy marriage for us, like
in those moments, identifyingthose, flags.
Speaker 1 (41:15):
It's the quick check-ins.
Yes, like you don't wait, youdon't let three days go by of
being stonewalled.
Speaker 2 (41:23):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (41:23):
Which is what we would do, and God.
Speaker 2 (41:27):
Yeah, yeah, it was not fun it was not a fun place
to be.
Speaker 1 (41:31):
It wasn't fun for either one of us.
No.
Speaker 2 (41:33):
But I think going forward it's been a.
We're not good at it all thetime, but I think that it's
something to where we can.
I know you've got my back andyou know my intentions are to
love and put you first and Ithink that is something that if
we both live in those places, weboth give each other a lot of
(41:54):
grace and forgiveness.
I think for me it's a.
I have often put my companyfirst.
I've often put that first injustification, saying this is
for you and for the family, andI think, if you can erase that
part out of your mind, thisisn't for her.
I could go work at Home Depotand provide for this family.
I can go get a corporate job,be home at normal times, have
(42:18):
different types of stress andprovide for us.
This is what I want to do.
This is for me too, and it's mychoice of what business I want
to be in, and so I think if Iget a little bit of ownership in
that, stop trying to push itoff on the family.
I'm doing it for them andreally engage with, like, what
are my priorities?
You know I've sat with couplesthat are going through you know,
(42:42):
as coaching clients and beenlike you have to choose your
wife or your company becauseyou're you're losing both.
Like you're, you're choosingyour company right now and you
got to choose your wife, andthat's, honestly my favorite
part of of of the coaching sideand pro instructive like being
able to hold a mirror up to guysthat I wish I could have done
10 years ago to myself, right,and I think that's that's the
(43:04):
most fulfilling part of this forme.
Speaker 1 (43:05):
I hear him for a while before he was in his
office out there, he was um inin our sitting room.
Uh, for the last four months,for the last four months, and I
have heard Clark countless timestalking to his clients like as
he's getting off the phone orgetting off the zoom, with them
(43:27):
being like hey, you're about togo on vacation, please be on
vacation, don't look at yourphone, don't text me.
He and he'll be like you know,if you happen to wake up early
before the whole family's awakeand you want to do a couple
hours of work, that's fine.
Wake up early before the wholefamily's awake and you want to
do a couple hours of work,that's fine.
But once everybody wakes up,like stop, like focus on your
(43:53):
family and that's that.
That is what I love about youand doing all these like systems
and processes and I make fun ofit all the time, cause I'm like
so it's not in some processes,but it is what has saved us.
Everything that you do andeverything that you coach.
This is a shameless plug.
Like it I'm not kidding Like ithas saved our marriage the
(44:14):
thing.
Let Clark's mistakes help you.
Speaker 2 (44:19):
Man, we're going to put you on payroll.
Speaker 1 (44:20):
This is, oh, my God this is a great market.
Well, and I would say too, Istarted working this past year,
yeah, and I think not everybodyis in a situation where
someone's at home and someone'sworking Sure, we're both working
now and I have a lot more.
I have a lot more understanding.
(44:42):
You know what I mean.
Speaker 2 (44:44):
Sure.
Speaker 1 (44:44):
Like, take a Sunday morning when I'm at work and the
kids, Clark, are coming at melike talking to me.
But I need to focus on thepeople that I am working with.
Speaker 2 (44:55):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (44:56):
And it's like, hey, I'll get you on a second Yep,
and it's given me a little bitmore like, oh yeah, I get it All
right, yeah, and it's giving mea little bit more like oh yeah,
I get it All right, Fine.
Speaker 2 (45:05):
No, it's something that we haven't arrived.
Speaker 1 (45:08):
No, we never will.
We will still fight about this.
Speaker 2 (45:12):
Yes, yeah, you are always wrong at some point.
Speaker 1 (45:15):
I am never wrong.
Speaker 2 (45:17):
So well, it's not an arrival, but it's a realization
of some good things, where it isnot a explosion after three
months, it is a conversationafter three hours.
Speaker 1 (45:29):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (45:29):
Right, and if we can reduce that runway of anger and
hostility and withholding loveand withholding respect from
each other until I get what Ineed, yeah, if we can continue
and always reduce that, we don'tget in those fights.
Speaker 1 (45:45):
If you can lead with vulnerability.
Speaker 2 (45:47):
Yes.
Speaker 1 (45:48):
And that's the hardest part, and if you, if you
cannot lead with vulnerability,go to therapy because you need
to learn how because if youcannot speak to your partner
with vulnerability, you will notmake it.
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (46:02):
Well, and getting away from my value is what I.
I find value in who I am bywhat you say, and I think that
carries over into leadership.
Like when you hire employeesand employees say negative
things about you or tell youthat you're something that you
don't believe you are, or callyou like someone quits and says
something negative about you tosomebody else.
(46:24):
Like what I've learned inmarriage of okay, let me step
back and separate her anger fromwhat's reality and let's have a
conversation about what you'reactually feeling.
Speaker 1 (46:35):
And that's what you learned in therapy.
Speaker 2 (46:36):
Yes, oh for sure.
Speaker 1 (46:37):
Clark always used to say this and it used to piss me
off so much.
But after we went throughtherapy, he's so logical and
blah, blah, blah.
But he would even tell me he'slike, it's like a game to me.
Speaker 2 (46:49):
He's like when you I call it positive manipulation
and you hated it Like because-.
Speaker 1 (46:54):
I still hate it.
Speaker 2 (46:56):
But it really was.
It felt like positivemanipulation, because I would
say the exact same thing, butI'd say it in a way that you
could hear With the tools that Igot of.
Okay, talk, say it this way soshe hears it.
And then I get a totallydifferent reaction out of saying
the exact same thingpractically, and I felt like I
was manipulating you.
I did like in those moments itwas like I just said it a
(47:17):
different way and I got exactlywhat I wanted.
Speaker 1 (47:19):
What he's saying is that I would yell at him about
something I was pissed off aboutand he would go underneath and
he would be like I feel like youare feeling unloved, blah, blah
, blah, all the things.
And I, you know, of course itwould piss me off because I'm
like, maybe don't call me, don'tcall me out, let me be mad
(47:41):
because I need to be mad.
But it works.
Speaker 2 (47:45):
Yeah, it does.
It does.
So if you're struggling, pleasego to therapy.
If you're not, go to therapy.
It's nothing but a positivething for you.
If you want to start puttingsome systems in place, I would
love to have the conversationwith you.
We are doing a retreat.
If you want to see Esther inperson.
Speaker 1 (48:03):
Please come Last year was the first year that I went
on one of these and, honestly,like it's embarrassing.
I've been married to him for 20years and I've heard I thought
that I had heard all the things,but I sat through his retreat
last year.
Speaker 2 (48:20):
It was three days, two days, two days and it's
three total days Cause we getthere on Sunday and do a
cocktail party that night andthere's two full days of
intensives.
Speaker 1 (48:29):
I am not going to lie .
I thought that I would be bored.
I did.
I'm not a contractor.
Yeah, Like I'm a therapist.
I'm a guest services directorat a church and I'm a homeschool
, stay-at-home mom.
That has nothing to do withcontracting, Nothing Nothing to
(48:51):
do with entrepreneurship.
But I sat through because I wasdoing all the food.
I will give you good food ifyou come, I promise.
But I sat there and I listenedto him and I was intrigued by
every single thing he said.
It was amazing, and I've beenaround this guy for way too long
.
Speaker 2 (49:11):
Well, thank you.
Well, it's a lot of fun.
I appreciate it.
Speaker 1 (49:15):
I want people to hang out with, please.
Speaker 2 (49:17):
It's great.
It's a.
It's a really good intensive.
It's.
It's three days, no-transcript.
(49:44):
Go get some drinks, come backto the main place and hang out,
or we stay right on mainBroadway in downtown Nashville.
Everyone leaves Wednesdaymorning.
If you got to get out, you canleave Tuesday night, but we all
kind of hang out that evening.
So it's a lot of fun.
If you want to, if you want tocome, go to contractorcutscom,
sign up for a call.
I do a phone call, a 30 minutephone call, with anyone who's
(50:04):
interested in coming before youget signed up, because I want to
make sure it's a good fit foryou.
There's some companies thataren't ready for it and there's
some companies that I want tomake sure this is a good fit
because it's really good, and so, whether you think you're ready
for it or not, give me a call,let's have a conversation, maybe
let's let's get some things inplace for coming next year.
(50:25):
Um, but uh, I would love tohave a conversation with you,
make sure that this is a greatfit for you, tell you a little
bit more details about it.
Uh, it's January 11th through13th coming up.
Also part of it, I do three freecoaching sessions if you sign
up for the, for the retreat.
So if you're coming on theretreat, we'll have three
sessions to finish out your 2025strong, and then it leads into
(50:46):
the retreat, kind of preppingyou for it, and then we go on
the retreat and it launches youinto 2026 with everything you
need to know.
A full game plan is what yougot to do.
So please sign up.
At least have a phone call withme, babe.
Thanks for being here.
Speaker 1 (50:59):
You're so welcome.
I feel so honored to be here.
I've watched every single onesure yeah, uh-huh okay I've
watched most of them.
Speaker 2 (51:10):
I promise, I promise you gave us three out of five
stars as a review.
I appreciate that that was bigfor you, so thank you guys.
So much for listening, and wewill see you guys next week bye,
bye, bye.
Welcome to Contractor Cuts, where we cover the good,
the bad and the ugly of growinga successful contracting company
.
Speaker 2 (00:13):
Welcome to Contractor Cuts.
My name is Clark Turner.
Thank you for joining us againthis week.
So today I've got a veryspecial guest.
My all-time favorite human onthe earth, my wife Esther Turner
, is here joining us.
Hey, everybody, I've twisted herarm and brought her in to come
(00:34):
and join us, as last week wetalked if you missed last week,
go back and listen to that.
We were talking aboutcontractors and how we put our
companies first, how weoftentimes neglect our family,
our kids, our wives, ourhusbands, our relationships in
life, and doing it insacrificing those relationships
(00:56):
to building this company.
And so we dove deep into someof James's growth as he grew
through from his 20s into his30s and you know, growing from
an employee into an owner andwhat that entails and how it
affected his personal life andhis marriage.
And today we're going to dive alittle deeper into mine.
(01:17):
So I brought my wife in to talkabout her experience.
So this is a great one.
Send to your wife after youlisten to it if you like it.
Send to your husband after youlisten to it and you like it.
This is a great one.
Send to your wife after youlisten to it.
If you like it send to yourhusband.
If you, after you, listen to itand you like it, this is a
great one to listen toseparately and have a
conversation.
I think we're going to end witha couple things you can do
right now to kind of open upsome of these communication
lines.
But today we're going to pickEsther's brain on what it's like
(01:41):
being married to a contractorwho is super flawed and who has
had a lot of growth in thejourney of marriage during
owning and running a contractingcompany.
So thanks for joining us, yeah,so let's start from the
beginning.
So we're going to run throughkind of our story starting the
(02:01):
company and then kind of kind ofhave Esther give us advice that
she would have given herselfwhen we started and what she
would tell me when we started,all the way through kind of the
different phases of growing acompany from a one-man show
through where we're at today.
But kind of rewinding the clock.
We have been married for 19 anda half years.
(02:21):
We're coming up on our 20 yearanniversary.
We got married in May of 2006.
And I started this company inAugust of 2006.
Yeah, so it was very soon after.
I think our entire marriageoutside of those first few
months has been me owning aconstruction company.
Speaker 1 (02:44):
Yeah, I had no idea you were going to be an
entrepreneur.
Speaker 2 (02:47):
Yeah, that was kind of that was not what I signed up
for.
Yeah, me neither.
But we fell backwards into thatand that's a whole nother story
of how I got into construction.
But we, we didn't know what wewere doing.
We jumped off a cliff togetherand it was the best of times and
it was the worst of times, andlet's kind of cover that.
So the first three years of ourmarriage were rough.
By year three we were getting adivorce, we were done.
(03:10):
We were both over the otherperson.
I was running a company.
I was a one man show till about2012.
So for the first six years Iwas kind of skinning my knees,
learning the hard way, runningit myself.
So that was kind of phase oneof the company and our marriage.
And so that season was me goingfrom working for a company.
(03:34):
I came out of college, workedfor a construction company and
then started my own company, andin those years Esther was
working as well.
You know, she went to graduateschool, got her master's and
then went and got a job, and sowe were both working, figuring
out marriage, figuring out life.
We did a lot of things rightand more things wrong.
Speaker 1 (03:56):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (03:57):
And I think that's one of the topics in terms of
looking.
You know, first question foryou looking at that phase of our
marriage.
I know it was forever ago.
Speaker 1 (04:10):
So long ago so so long?
Speaker 2 (04:12):
What?
What do you think, looking back, starting a company, if you
could give 24 year old Estherand 24 year old Clark advice,
what would you say right now?
What?
What would you have donedifferently?
Uh, would you have donedifferently?
And what do you think you know,if you could speak to us back
then, 20 years ago almost, whatadvice would you give?
Speaker 1 (04:32):
I would have gone to therapy sooner.
Speaker 2 (04:34):
Yeah, yes, absolutely , yep, that's a good.
Speaker 1 (04:38):
Yeah, I think I, when we got married you, I didn't
even know you had theentrepreneur bug, and so I mean
I should have known we weretogether for a long time and I
knew that you couldn't work foranybody.
Um, you didn't like rules oranyone telling you what to do
what, so I should have seen thered flags but I did it yeah um.
(05:01):
So I think we got married and Ithink I expected like, okay,
normal nine to five job.
That's what I grew up with.
I mean, my dad was a pastor buthe came home at normal hours
and we saw him and all that sortof stuff.
I think when you started yourcompany, we were really excited,
or sorry, I said we, we didn'thave kids yet.
(05:23):
I was really excited, Sorry, Isaid we, we didn't have kids yet
.
I was really excited for youand then quickly it turned into
whoa, this is not fun for me.
I never see you.
Yeah, you were constantlyworking.
There is no off switch.
There is no.
Okay, turn your phone off.
(05:44):
Yeah, is no um, okay, turn yourphone off.
You were just constantly,constantly, constantly doing
something for the company andfor the job in hopes of, of, of
building it, and I don't.
I didn't understand that.
Speaker 2 (05:55):
And I didn't.
I was very resistant to itespecially at the beginning, and
I think on the other side of itit was like I hadn't.
I had no coach.
I had no idea of what to do.
All I knew is that we weren'tgoing to pay the rent unless I
hustled Right and I felt this,you know, going from a single
(06:16):
person to a married person,there was this like oh, I gotta,
I gotta provide, I gotta buildthis family, we want to have
kids at some point, I gotta like.
And so it was like you say yesto every job, you say yes to
everybody, and you just go andsacrifice and burn out and just
grind Right.
And that was that was kind ofthe mindset in the beginning,
(06:37):
which, in hindsight, I mean thatthat there is a positive to
that.
Speaker 1 (06:42):
Well, there's a necessity.
Speaker 2 (06:43):
Yeah, there's a necessity to it.
But you know, I think in anyother phase of our life that
would have ended a lot worsethan it did, and it almost did.
I mean it almost ended.
It ended up where we were forsure getting divorced, sitting
in a therapist's office saying,yeah, we're getting divorced,
(07:06):
but how do we kind of moveforward?
And we went through therapy fora week in and a week out for
six months and ended up comingout the other side in a really
good way, and we'll talk aboutthat in a second.
But I think, starting thecompany and going into it, all I
knew was just work your buttoff and just go and if someone
calls you, hop in the truck andget to their job site.
I didn't know boundaries, Ididn't know how to do, like our
(07:27):
client engagement agreement thatwe have now, where we lay out
what we can and can't do for you, what you should expect out of
us.
All of that stuff I didn't havein place.
And so it was a work first,family second mentality of I'm
doing this for us, this is not,you know, like Esther, just
chill, this is for us.
Don't you want us to have this?
Speaker 1 (07:47):
Right, I don't think and I don't think the burn hit
us until we had kids.
Speaker 2 (07:52):
That's true, that's true.
Speaker 1 (07:53):
I think, sure, we went through a phase at the
beginning, before we had kids,but that was just, that was a
precursor to well.
Thankfully we went through thatso that we could, once we had
kids, we had the language totalk about it, because it got
bad when we had kids too.
Speaker 2 (08:12):
That's true.
Yeah, real bad that first wedidn't like each other, went
through counseling and likedeach other and kind of started a
new relationship.
Coming out of counseling,that's a whole nother story.
We started dating at 16 andkind of had some really bad
foundation of what arelationship looks like and so
(08:34):
we kind of tore it down, wentthrough therapy, rebuilt how to
be a husband, how to be a wife,how to have the language of
communicating with the otherperson needs, how to have the
language of communicating withother person needs.
And then we spent two years ayear, probably about a year,
year and a half post therapybefore you got pregnant, yeah,
and during that time you're inschool, you're getting your
(08:55):
master's and we were kind of atthat point pre-kids, we were
roommates that liked each other,that you know, it was friends
with benefits, but also like wewere married and we all.
But we did our own thing right,like I kind of ran my company,
you were getting your masters.
It wasn't a us doing ittogether, I don't think.
(09:15):
And and then when we had ourfirst child 14 years ago, um, it
was a bit of a shock because Ithink you went, you, you
literally walked down the aisleof graduation for your master's
two weeks before our first childwas born.
Speaker 1 (09:34):
Oh yeah.
Speaker 2 (09:35):
And so it was like, hey, you're going to be at home
with the, with our daughter, andI was making enough that we can
figure out how to live on oneincome, and I was making enough
that we can figure out how tolive on one income.
But it was, we had kind of seta foundation of I'm doing my
thing, you take care of the kids, not a team, not us doing it
together.
Yeah, no.
Speaker 1 (09:56):
And it was a shock for me.
I mean, for me it was.
I had her and went throughpostpartum depression which I
didn't even know.
I didn't know until I came outthe other side that that's even
what was going on for me.
You were grinding.
I went through school, I hadhad a job, I was used to doing
(10:18):
my own thing and then, all of asudden, I had nothing and I had
this kid who I loved dearly butalso was deeply, deeply sad.
Speaker 2 (10:28):
Well, and you're a doer Like you want to be out
doing stuff, getting stuff done,doing it, and I was jealous of
everything that you got to dothat I did not get to do.
Speaker 1 (10:37):
I was.
I was jealous that you got toleave the house without, without
having to worry about like.
You got to get dressed, you gotto take a shower, you got to
like.
I couldn't do any of thatanymore and it was just awful
for me.
Speaker 2 (10:52):
Yeah, and in that moment, instead of engaging,
instead of feeling for me,saying hey, you know what I feel
, like there's some unhappinesshere.
I'm like, well, you handle that, I'll handle this, see you
tonight.
And so I think on my side itwas not a hey, she's struggling,
there's some attitude, there'ssome, there's some clashing when
(11:15):
we have conversations.
So I need to double down onengagement.
Speaker 1 (11:19):
Instead, it was like hey, you need to go take care of
you.
Speaker 2 (11:24):
She's depressed, so she needs to handle that Right,
and so it was more of a handsoff approach on my side, which I
regret, and you know, inhindsight it's a.
What you have to do in thosesituations is put everything on
the table.
Right, we're going to talkabout it.
I like, hey, I feel like when Icome home you're angry, yeah,
right.
Speaker 1 (11:44):
We're going to talk about it.
Speaker 2 (11:45):
I like, hey, I feel like when I come home you're
angry.
Yeah, hey, I feel like when,when we were talking the other
night, you just were giving meone word answers, you're sure
Like what's going on, what'shappening?
Speaker 1 (11:52):
Right.
Speaker 2 (11:53):
And I don't think I did that well at all and I think
there was a system of everyonejust takes you know kind of
warfare.
Keep your head low, everyonetake care of themselves and
hopefully we come out on theother side.
Speaker 1 (12:04):
Well, and I think there was also a mentality of,
because we used to both work andthen we stopped working and it
was the agreement that I stayedat home which was fine, but it
was more of like that's your job.
And it was like you've got tobe able to sleep all night.
So that you can be present foryour clients and blah, blah blah
(12:25):
.
And oh, Esther, you can take anap with the baby, um, so you're
fine.
And and so it was.
It was that mentality that weboth and I, I fed into it too.
I was like all right, fine.
Like yeah, he's got to likefunction, so fine, I won't ask
him to help me in the middle ofthe night, but I was angry about
(12:45):
it.
Speaker 2 (12:46):
Well, and it doesn't mean there's a reality to it.
It doesn't mean I'm going to beup doing all the feedings every
night, right, but if I, twice aweek, gave you the night and I
fed the, baby and.
Friday and Saturday are mineright, like, like, as opposed to
.
Well, that's your job, that'smy job.
I don't want to do it, soyou're just going to handle it
(13:06):
Right, like, I think that's,that was the it's just.
You know, an inch is whatyou're looking for.
You're not looking for me torun the whole mile.
Like, you just need a littlebit of engagement to where
you're seen, where it's like,it's not a hey Esther, you know,
(13:28):
like I'm I got stuff to do.
Right, this is your job.
Right, you don't work and I'mdoing this for us.
Like this is, this is somethingthat we need, our family needs
me to go work and like I don'twant to, but I'm sacrificing for
us, so I need to sleep right,like, like it, like it, it.
It was a uh, a not goodmentality, um, but I think it
was something that we, we grewthrough and I think, had some,
(13:50):
some resolution a little bitthroughout it.
I think you were good atspeaking up um, eventually, once
your dams broke, um, but Ithink it was.
We would have buildups andexplosions and conversations and
we worked through it, I think.
I think, in hindsight, if I wastalking to the 28 year old
(14:10):
Clark, father of one with, witha wife at home, it would be, you
know, just giving an inch.
Staying up one night a week,two nights a week, is not
committing to doing it everynight.
Right, it wasn't like I like, itwasn't all or nothing, it was
like just just engage.
(14:31):
You know, in the mindset of that, I hid behind of I'm doing this
for us, I'm building us acompany.
We just got to grind throughthis season to get to the next
was more of an excuse to nothave to engage, to not have to
sacrifice.
I think, and we all standbehind this.
Hey, you know, this is for us.
And as soon as we get to here,as soon as we get to the next
(14:53):
phase, as soon as we grow, likemy company, I just got to make
one higher and then we can relax, and then I won't have to get
up at midnight to write thatestimate Like as soon as I get
to the next, it's going tohappen.
I think one of our like,overarching from day one through
five years ago, four years ago,three years ago, even as soon
(15:13):
as I get to X, then Y willhappen, and I think that was one
of the worst things in ourmarriage is there was always a
neck, you know, and there alwaysis.
Yes, yeah, and there's always anext season.
And as soon as I did achievesomething like well, I've bit
off three more things because ofopportunity.
Speaker 1 (15:33):
Right.
Speaker 2 (15:33):
Right.
And so it was like well, butI've got this and I'm going to
do this, and like, if I couldjust.
And so the goalposts for youwere moved constantly.
Speaker 1 (15:40):
Right, which is not good for my personality.
Speaker 2 (15:42):
No.
Speaker 1 (15:42):
And and it's not good for most personalities who are
partnered with an ADD dreamerwhich is you and most
contractors are.
Speaker 2 (15:55):
And I was optimistic, always optimistic, like, oh,
but it will be great thenbecause of this and I can rose
colored glasses as soon as thishappens, then we'll be good.
As soon as I got to get up to 2million in revenue.
When I get there, we're goingto cruise Right.
And there was always a and onmy side it was, it was a hundred
(16:15):
percent true.
Speaker 1 (16:16):
Like in my brain.
Speaker 2 (16:17):
it was like, yeah, as soon as that happens and we get
there, I'm like, well, there'sa bigger, bigger piece of the
pie.
Then, like let's keep going,like let's, let's run for you.
It was like, hey, I need you torun one more mile and you're at
like 99% there and it's like,hey, we got two more miles to go
.
Speaker 1 (16:33):
you're like I you keep moving yes, goalposts yes
for me and for my expectationsand for my uh what, where I'm
ready to stop yeah, yeah, the,the, what is it?
Speaker 2 (16:46):
the path to to hell is the what is it I don't know
what you're saying are coveredin good intentions, like I
always had good intentions, yes,and I always like it was not me
like manipulating, it wasn't melike just feeding you a line I
legit.
If we could get there, I'll behappy.
Speaker 1 (17:06):
And that's the only thing I think that saved us is
because I truly that's somethingthat I do believe in.
I don't I believe that yourintentions are so good.
I don't ever believe thatyou're trying to pull one over
on me or manipulate me.
I truly see like your dream orheart, and I love that about you
.
So that's why I held on for solong, but eventually things had
(17:32):
to get put in place uh, plans,logistics, all the things that
you talk about putting thesystems and the processes.
Those had to get put in place,or else we wouldn't have been
able to keep going yeah, I meanAt that pace.
Speaker 2 (17:48):
That's right.
I've said it before Everysystem and process that
ProStruck coaches is put in wasbuilt out of what you did wrong
our arguments.
Absolutely, it's literally.
I've and I say this to new guyscoming to the coaching program
like I have skinned my knee soyou don't have to like oh yes
implement some of this stufflike it's not.
(18:09):
I'm not a guru, it's just I'vemade all the all the mistakes,
all, and so let me help you notmake those same mistakes, and I
think that's something you knownot.
I don't want to toot my ownhorn.
I think I'm good at learningfrom mistakes.
I think I think that whensomething happens, I was like,
okay, let me put something inplace to to not do that again.
Um, and I feel like that issomething that you saw in terms
(18:33):
of my movement towards you andlike, hey, I've got to put that
up.
I honestly think it was probablygo starting pro struct during
COVID, where I shifted a littlemore of my priorities, and I
think even over the last yearand a half, I've shifted
priorities even more in terms of, like, what do I want?
Do I want a bigger company ormore time with the family?
(18:55):
Right, and I think that's thathas been, more recently, the
biggest shift in terms of like,moving home, moving, moving,
closing my, my corporate officedown to where I can work out of
the backyard, stuff, like that,where it's like I want to be
here more often.
Speaker 1 (19:12):
Now, that is on the on the other end, right.
Speaker 2 (19:13):
That's after we're done.
But during the journey and kindof going backwards into the
journey, what do you think?
We had one kid, then two kidsand three kids and four kids,
four kids and six years.
What do you think if you couldgive me advice back then or
speak up for the Esther of thoseyears, what would you say to me
in retrospect and what wouldhave you done differently, or do
(19:36):
you think that you would havedone the same?
Speaker 1 (20:36):
Yeah, I, I have so much to say on that for me.
For me, um, uh, I think Ibitched and moaned a lot at you
and I would just pick fightswith you because I was just so
angry Like you pissed me off somuch.
You would come home late allthe time.
(20:57):
You told me one thing and youdidn't do it, and I would just
bark and yell at you.
Um, instead of telling you how Ifelt, like when you come home
late, it makes me feel like youdon't care about us.
When you tell me one thing,when you tell me you're going to
(21:19):
be here at five and then youget home at seven, all that
speaks to me is completerejection, that you don't care
about us, that we are the lastthing on your list.
And if I spoke to you moreabout my feelings instead of
just yelling at you, I thinkwould have been able to engage
you more.
Instead, I just yelled at youand so you yelled back and were
(21:40):
defensive of yourself, becauseyou were over here trying to
grow and trying to do all thisstuff for us and but it's, it's
for me.
Speaker 2 (21:48):
I mean, the excuse is for us and yeah, and you'll get
benefit if it works.
But at the same time, like itwas my choice to do that stuff,
I think one of the on the otherside of what you're saying for
me it was, if I can get awaywith stuff and keep my head low
and not get a bit off cool on totomorrow, which is not the
(22:11):
loving attitude.
That's not the attitude I wantguys to have who are dating my
daughter, who are going to marrymy daughter Right Like the.
The loving attitude of likeinstead of like I hope she
doesn't yell instead of like.
I hope that I don't hear thegarage door Cause.
I just hope that I can havesome alone time.
Speaker 1 (22:29):
Right.
Speaker 2 (22:30):
Switching from that attitude to like hey, if she
might yell, there might besomething bigger going on here,
Right, Well?
Speaker 1 (22:36):
and I'm yelling at you because I'm wanting to what?
What I'm too afraid to say,what I'm too afraid to voice, is
my vulnerability, that I feellike I don't matter, yeah.
And so instead I'm going to getangry, because, because what if
I approach you with I feel likeI don't matter?
And what if you say you'reright?
You don't.
And so it's easier for me tolead with anger, with
(23:02):
justifications, and I had everysingle justification.
I mean, I was right.
Yeah, like duh.
Speaker 2 (23:08):
And I'm coming home from a 14-hour day and you're
upset and I'm like but look whatI did, and I've done all this
and you don't understand.
Speaker 1 (23:17):
And I'm like look at these four children that are
still alive.
You're welcome.
Speaker 2 (23:21):
It's a shootout.
Speaker 1 (23:22):
And I didn't hurt anybody.
Speaker 2 (23:23):
Yep, yep, and it's.
It's a but what about me?
Right, and we got you knowwhenever we get into the what
but what about me argumentswhere we're both trying to show
ourselves the sad part is it'stwo kids trying to say, hey, I
need you to care for me, yep,right, and for us, it's.
If you are listening to thisand this is happening at home
(23:45):
right now, the answer is youjust look at the person and talk
about what you appreciate aboutthem.
Speaker 1 (23:52):
Somebody has to make the first step, Somebody has to
be vulnerable and if you as thecontractor and your wife or your
spouse is screaming at you,look at her and say what do you
need?
Speaker 2 (24:06):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (24:07):
Like what am I missing?
What am I not hearing?
Instead of getting defensivelike lead by example or, if you
are the spouse, lead withvulnerability.
That's all it is.
It's vulnerability meetsvulnerability.
Speaker 2 (24:21):
Yeah, Well, and the whole women, the love men need
respect.
The love and respect thing.
Like, if I come home and you'reyelling at me, I feel so
disrespected, yeah, and so whywould I give you like, why would
I show care and love for you?
And if I'm not, if I miss, ifI'm two hours late and you feel
unloved, why would you show merespect when you don't feel like
(24:44):
I even love you?
Right, and so, understandingthat and getting those tools in
your belt of like, as soon as Istart hitting the ding, ding,
like, oh, she's like like those,those feelings of the hair
sticking up and I'm ready toattack, If you just say the like
, go one step beyond the anger,go one step beyond.
(25:05):
Why like so if, if Esther isyelling at me because I'm, uh,
you know something happened, andshe's like well, you did this
and that, instead of sayingshe's angry, say what you know?
What did I do to hurt her?
Speaker 1 (25:16):
to make her feel angry.
What's beneath that?
Like she said whatever,whatever you're arguing about,
it's always there's somethingunderneath, and it's so hard
when you're in the middle of afight to think about that and
honestly like, if you're at thatpoint and if you keep having
that same circular thing, youneed therapy yeah, just go to
therapy.
Speaker 2 (25:36):
Therapy is it's just what you need yeah, well, and,
and I mean we went to there, I,I literally went to therapy to
fix esther and she went totherapy to fix me, to fix him
and we both went through it andfix ourselves.
Speaker 1 (25:49):
I was in school for my master's in therapy.
Speaker 2 (25:53):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (25:54):
And I had asked Clark for three years to go to
therapy with me and he was likenope, nope, nope, nope, nope.
And then I went to school forit and I was ready to say bye
and he was like, okay, let's goto therapy.
And I was like too little, toolate, dude.
And he was like you're going tolook like such a fraud becoming
a therapist, but you won't goto couples counseling with me.
And I was like fine, fine, I'lldo it.
Speaker 2 (26:16):
Best decision we ever made.
So again, it's, it's a, it's a.
Therapy Isn't a bad thing, itis nothing but health, and if
you're going to fix your spouse,go to fix your spouse.
And if they need to fix thetherapist, we'll help get there
and try to learn something aboutyourself in it.
But I think going through itit's a A someone's got to step
(26:39):
out of that dance.
Someone's got to stop the.
I'm mad at you, you're mad atme the pointing the fingers.
Yeah, on top of that, you know,going down our story, we had
kids.
I kept growing.
I think the moving the goalpostthing is one of the big things
that I would always do.
I think, secondarily, one thingyou voiced that we've talked
(26:59):
about a number of times isbecause I was running things and
I am very logical.
I can really logic myselfthrough every single decision.
A plus B equals C, so there'sno other reason to talk about
this.
C is the answer, and so becauseof that, esther was being cut
out of so many decisions that Iwas making that were affecting
(27:20):
our family, mostly financial.
Speaker 1 (27:22):
Financial decisions yeah.
Speaker 2 (27:23):
There was a lot of times.
There was times that we lostsix figures.
Speaker 1 (27:27):
Lost so much money that I didn't, clark, I mean.
I remember specifically twotimes that Clark came home and
was like hey, I've got to tellyou we just lost X amount of
dollars and it was six figures.
And I was like what the crap?
Like how did I not know?
And he's like well, it'sbecause I decided to do this.
(27:48):
And I was like I didn't know,you decided to do this, like
that was a huge decision thatyou completely left me out of,
like what?
Speaker 2 (27:59):
Yeah, it's.
I justified it as she didn'task, she didn't want to know.
Like she's doing her thing, I'mdoing mine.
In reality, it was a let mejust do this.
Let me.
Just try.
Speaker 1 (28:09):
Well, I think in your , because you are so optimistic,
you're like it'll work out,like there's no need.
There's no need to tell herIt'll be fine, it will not go
bad.
Speaker 2 (28:19):
Yeah Well.
So I think, learning from that,one big thing to do is have
some finance business meetings,like couples business meetings
of.
Let's sit down and talk aboutwhat's going on.
Let's engage each other.
Why don't you ask your wife doyou want to know about what's
going on?
Do you want to know about thefinances?
(28:39):
You want to know about mycompany?
What's happening?
And if they say no, say okay,well, big stuff's happening.
No one says no to that.
They're like yeah, please tellme what's happening with our
dollars.
What's going on?
What ventures are you starting?
What you know?
What?
Who are you partnering withwhat?
What's all happening to where?
If I get home, last thing Iwant to do is talk about the bad
stuff that happened today, andso if you're not asking, I'm not
(29:00):
telling.
And in three months later, thatbad decision or the bad thing
that happened has snowballedinto large losses.
And then it's like oh, I got totell her at some point point,
and so she's finding out afterthe fact every single time,
because she hasn't been involvedfrom start to finish.
So I think that's another bigone of how do you engage in the
(29:21):
soft times so when it gets hard,she knows she's on your team as
opposed to an enemy.
Speaker 1 (29:28):
I think that that's something in retrospect we would
have done definitelydifferently totally differently
and like trust that your spouseor your partner has it good
ideas.
Speaker 2 (29:41):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (29:41):
A good opinion, or it doesn't mean you have to do
everything that they say, but ifyou've got a good working
relationship with your spouse,like you should want to hear
from them.
You should want to hear theirthoughts.
I never tell you things whereI'm like oh you have to do this,
but I always give you anopinion, yeah.
(30:02):
Well and you've got 99.99 ofthe time.
I am right.
There's been hires that youhave made every single time.
There's been about three yeahwhere clark has hired somebody
and I've been like I don't likethem.
One one of one of the dudes Iused to work at t-mobile he this
(30:22):
is so random he came into mystore, he yelled at me.
I mean, he reamed me out aboutsomething, about his dumb cell
phone leaves the store.
Two weeks later I go to clark'soffice.
I see that dude and clark'slike I just hired him and I was
like that person is just ahorrible person.
(30:47):
He went, he and I told him andClark was like yeah, he's fine,
he's fine.
Guess what?
You fired him.
Speaker 2 (30:53):
Sure, the other side of that was I went through all
this interviews he I hired himas a project manager.
I needed a project manager, sobad I.
If you had a heartbeat and hadexperience in this industry, I
was going to hire you.
I didn't do a higher rightRight Like I didn't do the right
hire.
Speaker 1 (31:11):
Oh, you didn't.
You didn't have any of thosesystems and processes and
procedures that you do.
Speaker 2 (31:15):
But it was like oh, a relief, Cause I could dump jobs
on him and he will execute them.
Speaker 1 (31:20):
Right.
Speaker 2 (31:20):
And you came in and said that guy yelled at me like
two weeks ago, right, and so I'mlike that, sucks, I'm sorry
babe.
Uh, this is a fix for me, soI'm gonna keep them, uh.
And then, like a month and ahalf later, I had to fire him
because of some indiscretion.
Speaker 1 (31:36):
So it was and it that happened like two more times
not the guys didn't yell at me,but I was just like I don't like
I've got, I've got this gutintuition, you've got really
good discernment.
Which doesn't mean that youhave to like follow that Sure.
I just love knowing that I'mright, like it's fine, like at
this point.
Speaker 2 (31:53):
Well, it's a matter of I am so logical, I can out
lawyer you on anything.
Oh, and because of that I getalmost on a high horse of why
would you, why would I ask you,like it's?
Speaker 1 (32:08):
logic.
We should do this, right,esther?
You just feel.
Speaker 2 (32:10):
Yes, and and where I'd never valued that in the
past, of like there is somediscernment, there is some hey,
maybe like, what do you thinkabout this, what am I missing
here?
And and that's, that's acockiness, that's a, that's a um
self.
You know, uh, I'm better thanyou at this, so just let me make
those decisions, um, to whereit is something that, in
(32:34):
hindsight, a, even if I wasright, involving you in that
confirms it right, and if I'mwrong, involving you in that
might help me Right.
And to be able to kind, of hatin hand, look back and be like I
should have.
Maybe I'm not perfect, maybeI'm not good at that, maybe I
need to learn how to do thatbetter.
(32:55):
It's hard to do when you'rerunning a company and you know,
I think, going back to like thebeginning, when you're starting
a company, you're everything.
I'm the janitor and the CEO,I'm start to finish doing
everything and as an ADHD brain,it's great, I can, I can kill
it with that, but that alsomeans that I'm all over the
place when I get home.
I'm doing everything andgetting pulled in all these
directions as I grew the companyand kind of narrowed my job
(33:19):
description down into kind ofCEO isish into the company to
where I'm doing a lot less.
I could control my schedule alot more, I was home a lot more
often and it was easier on thatside.
But then I have the weight ofcarrying employees, then I have
the weight of there.
You know there were.
I think one of our biggestrecurring issues has been babe,
(33:42):
I'll be home at five, at 630,.
Esther texts me and says whereare you?
I think that's been over andover for 20 years.
It's been an issue for us.
Speaker 1 (33:54):
And it's not, honestly, it's not resolved.
Speaker 2 (33:58):
No, it happened last week it happened.
Friday.
Yeah, that being said, ifyou're listening to this, I'm
sure you haven't experiencedthis with your wife.
That happened Friday, yeah.
That being said, if you'relistening to this, I'm sure you
haven't experienced this withyour wife.
That being said, it issomething that I think we both
have worked on.
Yeah, you have worked on thegrace side and you are so good
at giving me excuses.
Speaker 1 (34:14):
Thank you.
Speaker 2 (34:15):
Yeah, You've been.
It is a blessing as a husbandto have you make.
Yeah, I'm sure he's busybecause of this.
Yeah, it's the benefit of thedoubt you build the benefit of
the doubt in for me.
Now I think we've gotten to aspot where that has grown more
and more because I have workedmy butt off on trying to do it
(34:39):
well and I think like I stillmiss it.
Like you said, friday, like Isaid, I said hey, our girls go
to school on Tuesdays andFridays.
That's her home school's.
Other days, on Friday they were.
She was picking them up atschool, got them.
I was like hey, get them, bringthem home.
Speaker 1 (34:52):
You moved your meeting.
I moved the meeting early forget.
Speaker 2 (34:56):
Get the kids home, they get.
I got a carpool line early, yepokay and I was like I'll be done
at four, get them them home.
We're going to go get burgers,we're going to have a fun Friday
night, we're you know all thisstuff.
Well, my three to four o'clockmeeting, there were some fires
we had to put out with thisclient and I was.
(35:18):
You know, for me I get a pop up10 minutes before my next
meetingclock meeting because itwas moved.
There was no pop-up to go hangout with the family.
So I'm on a, I'm on a call withone of our partners helping,
you know, coaching through someheavy stuff, and it just goes
and it just goes and goes andwhat I should have done is say,
hey, let's pick this up onMonday.
Like I got some.
(35:38):
I didn't think about it, I wasout of out of sight, out of mind
.
I'm not looking at the clock,we're just going.
It turns into about 440.
One of my daughters pops herhead in my office because I'm
working in the backyard.
Now, yep, I hear steps up thestairs and it pops in the head.
Speaker 1 (35:53):
Oh yeah, I sent her up there.
I was like go see what dad'sdoing.
Speaker 2 (35:59):
And I'm like, oh yeah , I got to go.
So I get off the meeting, Iwalk down to the house and
instead of getting chewed outwith attitude, I get a hey, are
we still got time for burgers?
Should we go to Mexican Right?
Like, I get this, this, it'sokay, and the kids are ready to
chew me.
You know, up and down they werehungry.
They get home from school andthey're starving.
Speaker 1 (36:16):
That was only because they were hangry, but they're
good with it.
They are.
Speaker 2 (36:19):
But I say that because you're justifying it to
them.
You're saying, girls, it's fine, Like we're going to get.
He had work that something wentover.
Speaker 1 (36:27):
We have built enough rapport over the years and I
know how hard you have worked atit.
Yeah, and so you have builtthat in by being as consistent
as you can be you.
Back in the day he would textme and say I'm leaving the
(36:50):
office, but he would still beinside of the office and so you
know it's a 10 minute drive home.
He would say I'm leaving theoffice.
Speaker 2 (36:56):
I'm packing up headed home.
Speaker 1 (36:57):
Yes, he would.
That's what you would say.
You would say I'm packing up.
Speaker 2 (37:00):
Yep.
Speaker 1 (37:01):
Oh my gosh.
I feel like I would say I'mpacking up.
Speaker 2 (37:04):
Yep, oh, my gosh.
I feel like I would say I'mpacking up to head home.
Speaker 1 (37:06):
It'd be six o'clock he say he's packing up.
It takes 10 minutes to drive,packing up takes one minute.
Okay.
And then seven o'clock he'srolling into the driveway and
I'm like what the crap?
Yeah like why?
Speaker 2 (37:23):
and so we talked well and on my side I was packing up
and I was headed home and thensomeone came into the office
I've got project managers andgeneral managers and office all
in the office with me and I'mpacked, well, no, what I'm
saying is, like I'm packing up,one of the guys walks in hey, we
got an issue, what's up?
Real quick, blah, blah, blah.
You got two minutes, yes, I got.
Yeah, well.
And so we start diving in andwe're diving in.
Hey, we got an issue, what's up?
Real quick, you got two minutes, yes, I got.
(37:44):
And so we start diving in andwe're diving in.
We're talking, we're talking,and on my side, I just made some
decisions that saved thecompany $20,000.
It's worth an extra 30 minutesof my time.
On your side, you're lefthanging from this text with
expectations.
Speaker 1 (38:02):
When I'm dying over here with four kids who I've
been home with all alone all day.
Speaker 2 (38:07):
Especially when they were younger, when they were
little.
It was awful.
It was like when I say I'mgoing to be home at 510,
starting about 450, you'recounting down the minutes
because it's like I just need topass the kid off, hand him the
baby and go outside for somefresh air.
Speaker 1 (38:23):
I can't be touched or spit up on one more.
Yes.
Speaker 2 (38:26):
And so when I say I'll be home at five, every 10
seconds, that I'm late, she is.
She is cursing my name, Right,and so it is one of those things
it still happens, though oflike I'm still speaking, like
hey, I told you one thing, I'mnot doing it.
I don't, I don't care aboutyour time, I'm more important
(38:51):
than you.
That's what I'm speaking to her, and so I.
What I got into, yeah, what Istarted doing probably eight
years ago, is I would, I wouldset one of those you know area
reminders that when I left myoffice and got out of a certain
radius, my phone would dingsaying text Esther.
And I'd text Esther and say I'mheaded home.
And to this day, if I'm outsomewhere and I'm headed home, I
text her.
When I'm in the car driving hey, I'm headed home.
If I'm at a buddy's house, ifI'm out to lunch or dinner with
(39:11):
someone, like hey, I'm headedhome is when I'm in the car
driving, Not when I'm about towalk to the car, cause anything
can happen.
So I'm in the car driving home,which changed.
Speaker 1 (39:21):
It changed everything because, especially for my
brain, like you're okay, likeeven personality wise, like
you're okay being a little bitlate places, me being on time is
10 minutes early, and so if yousay you are headed home, that
means I'm looking at the clockand however long it takes you to
get home, that's when I expectyou to walk in the door or you
(39:46):
know a catastrophe has happened,you know you're dead.
Speaker 2 (39:49):
He better be on the side of the road You're dead in
the ditch, hopefully, or elsehe's in trouble.
Exactly, yeah, so it was one ofthose things that was an easy
fix for me.
Speaker 1 (40:01):
It was so easy to change that and so helpful for
both of us because you know whatit built trust back because I
lost all trust in you of whenyou said you would do something
Well and benefit of the doubtworks when it happens randomly.
Speaker 2 (40:17):
It doesn't have on the fifth day in a row.
Speaker 1 (40:20):
It's like I can't give the benefit of the doubt,
I'm done.
I can't.
Speaker 2 (40:22):
Yeah, and so I mean it's like I can't give it, I
can't.
Speaker 1 (40:23):
Yeah, and so I mean, and then I'm just angry yes, so
that's something that literally.
Speaker 2 (40:28):
I mean, like I said, it happened Friday and I'm
working in the backyard Like it,it, it's still going to happen,
it's going to continue tohappen.
It will happen forever.
I'll be on my deathbed and I'llmiss dying by 10 minutes Right,
Like I will always be late.
That being said, like there isa grace that she gives, but also
the ability and I think this isone thing that I think we do
(40:48):
really well is we're good atraising flags of like hey, or,
if you're prickly, I think I'vebeen good at saying hey, what's
up?
Speaker 1 (40:58):
You're very good at that.
Speaker 2 (41:00):
If I come home, like one word answers to you.
You're like hey you stop, yougrab my arm and say what's going
on, like what's happening, andI think that is the small
difference of a healthy andunhealthy marriage for us, like
in those moments, identifyingthose, flags.
Speaker 1 (41:15):
It's the quick check-ins.
Yes, like you don't wait, youdon't let three days go by of
being stonewalled.
Speaker 2 (41:23):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (41:23):
Which is what we would do, and God.
Speaker 2 (41:27):
Yeah, yeah, it was not fun it was not a fun place
to be.
Speaker 1 (41:31):
It wasn't fun for either one of us.
No.
Speaker 2 (41:33):
But I think going forward it's been a.
We're not good at it all thetime, but I think that it's
something to where we can.
I know you've got my back andyou know my intentions are to
love and put you first and Ithink that is something that if
we both live in those places, weboth give each other a lot of
(41:54):
grace and forgiveness.
I think for me it's a.
I have often put my companyfirst.
I've often put that first injustification, saying this is
for you and for the family, andI think, if you can erase that
part out of your mind, thisisn't for her.
I could go work at Home Depotand provide for this family.
I can go get a corporate job,be home at normal times, have
(42:18):
different types of stress andprovide for us.
This is what I want to do.
This is for me too, and it's mychoice of what business I want
to be in, and so I think if Iget a little bit of ownership in
that, stop trying to push itoff on the family.
I'm doing it for them andreally engage with, like, what
are my priorities?
You know I've sat with couplesthat are going through you know,
(42:42):
as coaching clients and beenlike you have to choose your
wife or your company becauseyou're you're losing both.
Like you're, you're choosingyour company right now and you
got to choose your wife, andthat's, honestly my favorite
part of of of the coaching sideand pro instructive like being
able to hold a mirror up to guysthat I wish I could have done
10 years ago to myself, right,and I think that's that's the
(43:04):
most fulfilling part of this forme.
Speaker 1 (43:05):
I hear him for a while before he was in his
office out there, he was um inin our sitting room.
Uh, for the last four months,for the last four months, and I
have heard Clark countless timestalking to his clients like as
he's getting off the phone orgetting off the zoom, with them
(43:27):
being like hey, you're about togo on vacation, please be on
vacation, don't look at yourphone, don't text me.
He and he'll be like you know,if you happen to wake up early
before the whole family's awakeand you want to do a couple
hours of work, that's fine.
Wake up early before the wholefamily's awake and you want to
do a couple hours of work,that's fine.
But once everybody wakes up,like stop, like focus on your
(43:53):
family and that's that.
That is what I love about youand doing all these like systems
and processes and I make fun ofit all the time, cause I'm like
so it's not in some processes,but it is what has saved us.
Everything that you do andeverything that you coach.
This is a shameless plug.
Like it I'm not kidding Like ithas saved our marriage the
(44:14):
thing.
Let Clark's mistakes help you.
Speaker 2 (44:19):
Man, we're going to put you on payroll.
Speaker 1 (44:20):
This is, oh, my God this is a great market.
Well, and I would say too, Istarted working this past year,
yeah, and I think not everybodyis in a situation where
someone's at home and someone'sworking Sure, we're both working
now and I have a lot more.
I have a lot more understanding.
(44:42):
You know what I mean.
Speaker 2 (44:44):
Sure.
Speaker 1 (44:44):
Like, take a Sunday morning when I'm at work and the
kids, Clark, are coming at melike talking to me.
But I need to focus on thepeople that I am working with.
Speaker 2 (44:55):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (44:56):
And it's like, hey, I'll get you on a second Yep,
and it's given me a little bitmore like, oh yeah, I get it All
right, yeah, and it's giving mea little bit more like oh yeah,
I get it All right, Fine.
Speaker 2 (45:05):
No, it's something that we haven't arrived.
Speaker 1 (45:08):
No, we never will.
We will still fight about this.
Speaker 2 (45:12):
Yes, yeah, you are always wrong at some point.
Speaker 1 (45:15):
I am never wrong.
Speaker 2 (45:17):
So well, it's not an arrival, but it's a realization
of some good things, where it isnot a explosion after three
months, it is a conversationafter three hours.
Speaker 1 (45:29):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (45:29):
Right, and if we can reduce that runway of anger and
hostility and withholding loveand withholding respect from
each other until I get what Ineed, yeah, if we can continue
and always reduce that, we don'tget in those fights.
Speaker 1 (45:45):
If you can lead with vulnerability.
Speaker 2 (45:47):
Yes.
Speaker 1 (45:48):
And that's the hardest part, and if you, if you
cannot lead with vulnerability,go to therapy because you need
to learn how because if youcannot speak to your partner
with vulnerability, you will notmake it.
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (46:02):
Well, and getting away from my value is what I.
I find value in who I am bywhat you say, and I think that
carries over into leadership.
Like when you hire employeesand employees say negative
things about you or tell youthat you're something that you
don't believe you are, or callyou like someone quits and says
something negative about you tosomebody else.
(46:24):
Like what I've learned inmarriage of okay, let me step
back and separate her anger fromwhat's reality and let's have a
conversation about what you'reactually feeling.
Speaker 1 (46:35):
And that's what you learned in therapy.
Speaker 2 (46:36):
Yes, oh for sure.
Speaker 1 (46:37):
Clark always used to say this and it used to piss me
off so much.
But after we went throughtherapy, he's so logical and
blah, blah, blah.
But he would even tell me he'slike, it's like a game to me.
Speaker 2 (46:49):
He's like when you I call it positive manipulation
and you hated it Like because-.
Speaker 1 (46:54):
I still hate it.
Speaker 2 (46:56):
But it really was.
It felt like positivemanipulation, because I would
say the exact same thing, butI'd say it in a way that you
could hear With the tools that Igot of.
Okay, talk, say it this way soshe hears it.
And then I get a totallydifferent reaction out of saying
the exact same thingpractically, and I felt like I
was manipulating you.
I did like in those moments itwas like I just said it a
(47:17):
different way and I got exactlywhat I wanted.
Speaker 1 (47:19):
What he's saying is that I would yell at him about
something I was pissed off aboutand he would go underneath and
he would be like I feel like youare feeling unloved, blah, blah
, blah, all the things.
And I, you know, of course itwould piss me off because I'm
like, maybe don't call me, don'tcall me out, let me be mad
(47:41):
because I need to be mad.
But it works.
Speaker 2 (47:45):
Yeah, it does.
It does.
So if you're struggling, pleasego to therapy.
If you're not, go to therapy.
It's nothing but a positivething for you.
If you want to start puttingsome systems in place, I would
love to have the conversationwith you.
We are doing a retreat.
If you want to see Esther inperson.
Speaker 1 (48:03):
Please come Last year was the first year that I went
on one of these and, honestly,like it's embarrassing.
I've been married to him for 20years and I've heard I thought
that I had heard all the things,but I sat through his retreat
last year.
Speaker 2 (48:20):
It was three days, two days, two days and it's
three total days Cause we getthere on Sunday and do a
cocktail party that night andthere's two full days of
intensives.
Speaker 1 (48:29):
I am not going to lie .
I thought that I would be bored.
I did.
I'm not a contractor.
Yeah, Like I'm a therapist.
I'm a guest services directorat a church and I'm a homeschool
, stay-at-home mom.
That has nothing to do withcontracting, Nothing Nothing to
(48:51):
do with entrepreneurship.
But I sat through because I wasdoing all the food.
I will give you good food ifyou come, I promise.
But I sat there and I listenedto him and I was intrigued by
every single thing he said.
It was amazing, and I've beenaround this guy for way too long
.
Speaker 2 (49:11):
Well, thank you.
Well, it's a lot of fun.
I appreciate it.
Speaker 1 (49:15):
I want people to hang out with, please.
Speaker 2 (49:17):
It's great.
It's a.
It's a really good intensive.
It's.
It's three days, no-transcript.
(49:44):
Go get some drinks, come backto the main place and hang out,
or we stay right on mainBroadway in downtown Nashville.
Everyone leaves Wednesdaymorning.
If you got to get out, you canleave Tuesday night, but we all
kind of hang out that evening.
So it's a lot of fun.
If you want to, if you want tocome, go to contractorcutscom,
sign up for a call.
I do a phone call, a 30 minutephone call, with anyone who's
(50:04):
interested in coming before youget signed up, because I want to
make sure it's a good fit foryou.
There's some companies thataren't ready for it and there's
some companies that I want tomake sure this is a good fit
because it's really good, and so, whether you think you're ready
for it or not, give me a call,let's have a conversation, maybe
let's let's get some things inplace for coming next year.
(50:25):
Um, but uh, I would love tohave a conversation with you,
make sure that this is a greatfit for you, tell you a little
bit more details about it.
Uh, it's January 11th through13th coming up.
Also part of it, I do three freecoaching sessions if you sign
up for the, for the retreat.
So if you're coming on theretreat, we'll have three
sessions to finish out your 2025strong, and then it leads into
(50:46):
the retreat, kind of preppingyou for it, and then we go on
the retreat and it launches youinto 2026 with everything you
need to know.
A full game plan is what yougot to do.
So please sign up.
At least have a phone call withme, babe.
Thanks for being here.
Speaker 1 (50:59):
You're so welcome.
I feel so honored to be here.
I've watched every single onesure yeah, uh-huh okay I've
watched most of them.
Speaker 2 (51:10):
I promise, I promise you gave us three out of five
stars as a review.
I appreciate that that was bigfor you, so thank you guys.
So much for listening, and wewill see you guys next week bye,
bye, bye.
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