December 1, 2025 • 39 mins
We walk through real contractor dilemmas and show how to stop scope creep, protect profit, and keep clients happy without losing control. From Pinterest-driven changes to midnight texts, we share scripts, policies, and tools that set clear rules and smooth exits.
• explaining the cascade effect of late design changes
• using preconstruction to set rules for change orders
• writing the first small change order to set precedent
• tracking zero-dollar line items for visibility and leverage
• handling “I know a guy” pricing pressure mid-project
• offering managed carve-outs with markup and documentation
• setting communication hours and moving repeat offenders to email
• using lien releases and mutual non-disparagement to exit cleanly
If you have any situations like these you'd like us to read and discuss on the podcast, send an email at Team@ProStruct360.com!
Join us January 11–13 in Nashville for the Chart the Course 2026 Planning Retreat. Sign up now and get three free coaching sessions before the event to finish 2025 strong and hit 2026 with a clear game plan. At the retreat, you’ll tackle systems, hiring, marketing, and leadership alongside ambitious contractors, leaving with a blueprint for growth. Spots are limited—visit prostruct360.com to learn more!
Have a question or an idea to improve the podcast?
Email us at team@prostruct360.com
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
SPEAKER_01 (00:01):
Welcome to Contractor Cuts, where we cover
the good, the bad, and the uglyof growing a successful
contracting company.
Welcome to Contractor Cuts.
SPEAKER_00 (00:15):
Why do you always do this to me?
My name is Clark Turner.
I'm sitting with JamesMcConnell, and here we are again
on the Contractor Cuts podcast.
SPEAKER_01 (00:23):
I've noticed something.
When I when I say it with you,you introduce me.
SPEAKER_00 (00:29):
So you don't have to do it.
And I don't know why it's sohard to say your freaking name,
but you won't say it, so that'sokay.
That's good.
You you participate, but you'relike I'm James, and I'm James.
SPEAKER_02 (00:40):
James on Kyle.
All right.
I'll I'll start introducing you,and you can say introduce me.
Okay.
Perfect.
And this is Clark Turner's.
SPEAKER_00 (00:48):
Turner's on plural.
All right.
So thank you for joining usagain today.
We are taking caller requests.
They literally call those.
SPEAKER_02 (00:58):
They literally call these names.
SPEAKER_00 (01:01):
No, we uh uh we can I meant longtime listener, first
time caller.
We are um going throughsituations that either have been
given to us or stuff that uh myuh coaching clients have brought
up.
We haven't read these, we'regonna go blind.
Some of them are are given tous, some of them might be really
(01:23):
good and 10 minutes worth ofconversation, some might be a
30-second answer, but we'regonna really kind of go through
situations with clients that wedeal with as contractors and
what James and I would do inthose situations.
All right, you ready?
Yeah, all right.
The first one, and I've gotthese written down and I'm gonna
read them live.
I've I haven't read through themmost of them.
SPEAKER_01 (01:43):
I've read A lot of you think we don't look through
these suggestions, but we doevery week.
All of them.
SPEAKER_00 (01:52):
All right, so the first one is the Pinterest
change order client.
I'm remodeling a kitchen and theclient keeps sending me new
Pinterest screenshots everynight.
We had a sign scope, but nowthey want a different
backsplash, upgraded appliances,a waterfall island, a custom
shelving, etc.
All if it doesn't change theprice too much, they say, uh,
we're already paying so much,can't you just swap it out?
(02:14):
I've tried to explain changeorders, but they get irritated
and say, I'm nickel and dimingthem.
James, how should I handle this?
SPEAKER_01 (02:24):
Well, um, there's a front-end process we've talked
about in due diligence andpre-construction, and it you
know uh most of this uh thisstill happens if you do that.
Yes.
This can still happen if even ifyou do that.
So let's assume let's assumethey've uh exp I think it's easy
(02:44):
enough to say if you haven'tdone a preconstruction or a due
diligence, if you don't havethat as part of your process,
that's the problem.
Yes.
That's the fix.
Yes.
A lot of the times though, itdoesn't matter.
You're gonna still have clientsthat are uh yeah, yeah, yeah,
great, let's sign it, let's signit, great, great, great.
Yeah, oh sure, yeah, we cancommit to having all the
decisions before we start.
Absolutely not a problem.
And they're still gonna do it.
SPEAKER_02 (03:05):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_01 (03:06):
This is like an uncomfortable situation, but you
do need to have a conversationwhere it's hey let's we need to
we need to stop making changesbecause we can't we can't go
further down the road until weknow where we're going.
SPEAKER_02 (03:21):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_01 (03:22):
And you keep changing the directions, you
keep changing the destination,you keep changing what we're
gonna do when we get there.
We need to know exactly whatwe're doing.
Yeah.
And all of these things thatyou're talking about, the
waterfall edge, that's moremoney.
There's no way I can get aroundthat.
It's not a swap, it's anaddition, not just in material
but in labor.
(03:42):
Uh the the if they're trying tochange fossil or uh uh like
shower fixtures, the plumberneeds the valve to rough in.
So it's not like it's at theend.
Your client might not understandthose things.
And so one of the things wealways talk about is getting
back into education, educatingthe client.
And I think this really falls inline with that is educating
(04:04):
them, and you gotta find a wayto do it where it's not, you
know, like listen, listen,buddy, listen, lady.
Yeah.
We we can't do it.
You have to find a way that's Iunderstand that.
Um here's the issue timelines,uh, the money, the budget, we're
uh renegotiating with the crews.
(04:24):
We've already gone through thatprocess.
So there's a hard conversationthat you need to figure out how
to make it a cons a consumableconversation for the group.
SPEAKER_00 (04:34):
I'd also add two things on that.
One, oh you missed some areas,let me fill in that that you
missed, James.
Uh no, the the first thing,you're talking about the the due
diligence and the clientengagement agreement.
One thing, and I think you evenmentioned it, like one issue
I've had with project managersin the past is they just their
goal, their job, their checkmark is to get a signature on
(04:55):
the CEA.
Well, having a client sign itwithout going through, the whole
reason of the CEA is to takethem through it and educate and
get on the same page.
And so if I just send it over,they skim it, they sign it,
they're good to go.
You haven't set the rules of thegame.
You haven't spent the time.
And so there's this part, thechange order, the change of
scope uh part is a very smallparagraph, uh, three sentence
(05:17):
paragraph on the CEA.
Yeah.
But what I do on that is youhave to talk about that one.
And so that's one like everysingle, every single line on
CEA, I'm expounding on.
So on that one, it's like, hey,listen, just want you to know,
like, if you pick out X, if youpick out the tile for the
backsplash, I'm gonna go andorder it.
We're gonna have it on site.
My guys are gonna be lined up.
(05:38):
And if the day before you say,hey, we need to change the
change, I really want to do it.
I found this green backsplashand it's really cool.
I want to kind of go with thisfunkier looking backsplash.
I just want you to know if youpick that out now, it costs you
nothing as long as it'scomparable tiles.
If you pick it out the daybefore we're starting, I now
have to restock the old one andI gotta pay someone to go pick
(05:58):
it up on our job site and takeit back.
I gotta go hunt down the newone.
I gotta get it there, whichpushes my my backsplash guy
another day or two because I'vegot to get it.
And he might have another joblined up.
So it might push him to nextweek because he's got a job
after yours.
The cascade effect.
The cascade effect.
And so I push him to next weekso the tiles won't go until next
week, which means then the nextcrew can't come in until and so
(06:20):
we've lost a week on your job.
I've spent hours and hoursrearranging the rest of the
cascade effect.
And so I've got to spend timebuilding out a new Gantt chart,
new timelines, and rearrangeeverybody and get that old tile
back and make sure that theright tile kits on site and that
we have enough square footage.
And so all of that, if you makethat decision a couple days
(06:40):
before we do the tile, is gonnacost time and money.
And I don't wanna, I want thisto be the most efficient and
cheap, effectively priced jobthat you can that we can do for
you.
I saw you bail on cheap.
Not cheap.
I want this to be as efficientas possible with your money.
And so by doing that in in the11th hour, you're costing us
(07:01):
time, and time costs me money.
Because if I spend an extrahour, an extra week on your job
site, I'm not making any moremoney.
And so you're costing me money.
So I've got to somehow make upfor all of the time I spend
rearranging all this stuff andthat, and you gotta pay for that
time.
And I don't want to charge youthat, but I have to because
you're spending it.
Does that make sense?
Right, and you're sitting at theCEA and be like, oh, that makes
so much sense.
(07:22):
And so when I get that that uhthe comment of, hey, uh, you
know, here's another idea, youknow, I was thinking about doing
this with the and they're notdoing it daily, but it's three
times in a job.
Like, hey, what if we did this?
What if I take instead of doingan island, we do like a little
peninsula off the cabinets,right?
Some sort of thing that they sawthat they really like.
I oh, should we go back and getthe drawings redone?
unknown (07:44):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_00 (07:45):
No, I I go in advocacy mode.
Like I'm talking with my wife ormy mom who's doing her own
kitchen.
Like, I go into like, oh man,but that's gonna cost us a lot
of extra money.
What if we did and I and so I'mtrying to not spend their money
and trying to avoid the changeorder.
Like, uh, I just am myconversation, is assuming
there's more cost to it.
(08:05):
Instead of me delivering the badnews, hey, just so you know,
you're gonna owe us an extra$3,000 for that.
Instead of that, I'm saying,okay, let's figure out because
that's uh assumed is three grandextra to do that.
Let me figure out let's how canwe decrease the cost of that
change order?
And so now we're not talkingabout if they're gonna pay three
grand.
Now we're talking about how dowe decrease the three grand.
(08:26):
Right.
And so the the rhetoric that I'musing with the client is
assuming those costs are there,because we talked about it in
the CEA.
And so they're like, oh, that'sgonna cost money.
Like, yeah, yeah, like we talkedabout.
Remember, that it's uh it'sgonna take a lot of time and
effort and and it's gonna costus money to rearrange schedules
at this point.
So let's try to figure out howdo we can do instead of doing
that, what if you were we weredoing this?
(08:47):
That'd only cost you a thousandextra instead of three thousand.
And they're like, well, I don'twant to pay any extra.
Like, okay, well then we let'sjust stick with we got.
Yeah, and so it's it's ourproblem that we're trying to
solve together as opposed to mebeing their problem.
Instead of it's like, well,Clark's trying to charge me
another three grand.
Instead, it's like, well, he'strying to figure out if we can
do it for less than that.
I'm pretty like, and now I'm ahero, not the problem, right?
(09:08):
And so it's the it's therhetoric that I use on those
things of like, well, it'sassumed we've already talked
about it's three grand to dothat.
It's five grand to uh to dothat.
It's crazy.
It's gonna cost thir$3,200 extradollars because I've got to
rearrange things, I've got topay my tile guy who already is
booked for tomorrow, that I'vehe can't go get onto another
job, so I gotta pay him fortomorrow.
(09:29):
Uh, and start talking about allthat stuff with them.
And it's like, ah, you knowwhat?
Just leave it.
Just leave it.
That's fine.
SPEAKER_01 (09:34):
And then just throw the word COVID in there and you
know COVID.
SPEAKER_00 (09:39):
Tariffs.
What?
Uh so that's I think that'sgood.
Yeah.
Good answer to them.
All right.
So next one.
The while you're here scopecreek.
And this is kind of the similar.
Uh, I'm on a job site to redo abathroom.
Every time I show up, thehomeowner adds something.
Uh while you're here, can youjust replace that light?
SPEAKER_01 (09:57):
While you're here, can you just?
SPEAKER_00 (09:58):
Yes.
Can you touch up that wall?
Since you've got the tools out,can you just get that door fixed
a little bit because it alwayssticks when it closes?
None of this is in the contract,and they act shocked when I
mention extra costs.
It feels pretty, it feels pettyto write a change order over
this tiny stuff, but it startsadding up in time and materials.
How should I handle this?
(10:20):
How would you handle it?
Uh man, I don't know.
SPEAKER_01 (10:29):
Yeah, you just you gotta charge them.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Well uh I I do it early.
Yeah.
I do it early, and then I ifthere's anything that we're
doing for free, that it's likeyou you get it.
You you're in the middle of ajob.
There are certain things thatyou're like, yeah, that's not
gonna be that much, but I'msetting a precedent.
So the first change order, noquestion.
(10:52):
I'm charging them.
SPEAKER_02 (10:53):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_01 (10:53):
I don't care how big or small it is, I'm saying it's
a change order.
Because it's easier in the verybeginning to point back to the
CEA and say, I get it, it's asmall deal, it is a change
order, it's$175 to do XYZ.
I have to renegotiate it withthe crew, I gotta get the
material, we gotta put it in thescope.
It's just it's more money.
SPEAKER_02 (11:14):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_01 (11:14):
As things go on, there's gonna be these random
things that you feel like you'reit you don't want to be
ticky-tacky, and there is abalance and there is a game.
And you could be the guy that'slike, I charge for every single
CO, every single time,absolutely.
But we all know things get veryconvoluted.
They're you might not be 100% onyour game every single day.
(11:35):
You're gonna let one slide, andthen there's precedent.
Yeah.
So it's uh that's a really hardquestion to answer because every
situation is so different.
You're like weighing is thestress that this client's gonna
put me under.
Because some people like justlike to negotiate.
Some people that's just the gamethat they like to play.
(11:57):
And for me, I hate that game.
And so if it's not a huge costto me, I'm gonna be like, it'd
be so much easier to just eatthis and be like, no problem
there.
SPEAKER_00 (12:05):
Well, I I would almost like what you just said,
(13:08):
like it's easier just to eat itand not not deal with this.
I always try to be set myproject managers up, which if
it's your one, if I'm doing it,set myself up to be and feel
like and look like a hero on it.
So that that being said, of Imean, something like that's like
200 extra dollars.
I'll tell you what, I'm gonna dothis for you, but I it's it's
(13:29):
kind of eaten into any sort ofbuffer I I got in this job, but
I'm gonna go ahead and handlethis$200 change order.
I'm not gonna charge you for it.
I got you on this one, right?
To where next time they ask,hey, can you also get this?
And actually, that's I gottacharge.
Like, we've already uh I'vealready kind of blown my extra
money that I can burn on this onthat on the door that we fixed.
(13:50):
Can like this is gonna be it'sit's only$150 extra dollars, but
I I I kind of like we gotta havea change order for this one
thing.
SPEAKER_01 (13:57):
Um, I've thought about in the past having like a
uh a line item or a section oflike extras and talking about it
in the CEA and being like,there's gonna be times where you
ask for extra things.
I'm gonna add that to the scopeevery time so we can see what
that actually ends up being.
(14:19):
I don't know how to land thatplane, but there's always these
little things, and it's like,you don't want to be nickel and
dimed.
I don't want to nickel and dimeyou, I don't want to have to
keep doing all these changeorders.
I'm gonna keep it visible forall of us because once it gets
to like$1,500, I'm gonna say,hey, can I invoice?
Can I invoice you for this?
(14:41):
Do you see how much free workwe've done?
Yep.
SPEAKER_00 (14:43):
Yep.
I think that's great.
I think you got to be on top ofyour software with the change
orders.
But I think that's a great oneof like, hey, I'm gonna do that.
I'm gonna put it on the scope,I'm gonna have it zero dollar,
but I'm gonna go ahead and justhave it written down so it's
warrantied.
Right?
That was always my thing.
Like, I'm gonna put it on thescope just so it's warrantied,
and and it's covered that we didthis out here.
It's like$200 to fix that, butI'm gonna just cover it.
(15:04):
So line item, repair door,$200,$0 on the scope.
But then they ask again, and Ican point back and be like,
look, I did this, this, this,and this.
We're over$700 of change ordersin this point forward.
I'm kind of out of extra.
And that makes sense because,like, oh, you've done all this
stuff.
I didn't realize all this freestuff that you're done.
(15:24):
And that's also helping menegotiate at the end of the job
if they're trying to hold backmoney.
Well, you know, you weresupposed to paint four walls and
you did three and a half, right?
Because I, you know, butwhatever it is.
Uh I, you know, can you take 500bucks off?
Like, and my all my thing alwayswhen can you take 500 extra off
because of this?
Can you just not pay no, notcharge me for this?
(15:45):
You know, you charge me for allthat tile, and I see this as two
boxes that you're gonna return.
Am I getting that money back?
All of those types of nickel anddime that they're doing back to
me.
I've got my scope, and I say,that's fine.
I we can kind of go through thatand nickel a dime for over that
$50.
That's fine.
We can look at that.
But I am gonna have to enforcethat$700 of free work I did
because I did that.
Now you're nickel and diming onthis other stuff.
(16:07):
And like it's I think it's fairto say either we just cancel all
this out and you got some freestuff and you overpaid for half
of a wall, uh, those are gonnacancel each other out and we're
good to go.
Or if you want to, I can spendan hour or two, kind of go
through all my receipts, figureout how much uh discount you're
gonna get, and but you're gonnapay me for that$700 of free work
(16:27):
I did.
And at that point, I've saidI've like said that to clients.
I'm like, oh, you know what?
Just don't worry about it.
Just don't worry about it.
Because a lot of times it's whenclients are like, can I see all
the receipts of everything youpurchased?
And I say, no, that wasn't partof, you know, I wasn't planning
on that.
I've got them all, but I I justdon't have the uh, you know, it
I didn't build in five hours togo through and build
spreadsheets for this job and Ididn't charge you for that.
(16:48):
And if you want to pay me forfive hours of work, I'll do
that.
But I do want to let you know ifwe do that and it comes out
where you owe me more moneybecause I had to buy extra
stuff, I'm gonna have a changeorder on that.
So let's avoid the change orderand save you money altogether
and not pay me for five hours ofextra work that we didn't plan
for, and let's just call it.
I've I've said that to clients.
That's not just uh and it works.
(17:10):
Clients are like, ah, that'sfine.
Yeah, don't worry, but I didn'trealize it was that much work.
And every single time becausethey're like, Oh, yeah, I don't
want to pay extra money.
Because I'm I'm always actuallybought more than what we
budgeted for.
But if you want me to pull ittogether, I'll do it, but it's
gonna cost you and I'm gonnahave to do a change order for
you.
So I think that's a good one.
Um, this is a good one for you.
The I know a guy who will do itcheaper.
(17:32):
We're halfway through anedition.
I don't know where the clienttells me their buddy, who's a
contractor, says my framing andfinishes are overpriced and he
can do it cheaper.
The client is now questioningevery line item on my estimate
and wants me to match the priceof this mystery friend who's
never actually submitted a bidor seen the drawing.
I don't want to get into a raceto the bottom or trash their
(17:54):
buddy, but I also don't want tolose the job or my margin.
How can I handle this one?
SPEAKER_01 (18:07):
These are these are also situational.
They're also situational, and Iguess that's the point, but when
again, this is a part of theCEA, so that's number one.
And in a situation like this,I'm looking at it like, oh,
we're in DEF CON 5 here.
Like this is if somebody'sbringing that to me in the
(18:29):
middle of a project, number one,I'm like, you didn't care about
the CEA, you didn't payattention to the it's very clear
that what that what they'redoing in this moment is 1,000%
wrong.
Yes.
So you're dealing with somebodythat is already kind of
unreasonable and you're kind ofapproaching a situation like
(18:49):
that.
Yeah.
And so I would just get verymuch I'd bust the CEA back out
and say, hey, listen, we're atthis point in the project, we've
got this much left.
I'm not going I I can't let yougo in here and take pieces out
at this point.
You're we're talking about onething that's different.
We're talking about the uh mycousin does countertops.
(19:15):
All right, that's fine.
Have your cousin do countertops.
We're gonna go in give me a bit,I'll mark it up.
We're gonna we're gonna go inbefore they do the countertops,
we're gonna take pictures ofeverything.
We're gonna come in after theydo the countertops, take
pictures of everything.
You're gonna pay me the markupbecause that's I'm managing it.
I'm managing it.
Yeah, like you're not gonnamanage this, I'm gonna manage it
(19:35):
because if something happens,I'm gonna be on the hook for it.
We we already know this.
So uh we're gonna take picturesof before, we're gonna take
pictures after.
Uh we'll get it whatever.
We'll figure that out.
But if you're seriously goingthrough the whole scope and
trying to get me to matchpricing, that's a that's a
relationship ender.
Yeah.
It could be.
So you need to approach it thatway.
(19:57):
Hey, we're I hear what you'resaying, you're not happy with
we're not gonna do that.
The way that I've bid it out ishow I needed to bid it out for
my company to be able to do thisproject, and you chose to go
with us.
Yeah.
If you're unhappy with yourproject at this point and we
need to talk about going adifferent direction and finding
a good spot to shut this downand let you take it over with
(20:17):
somebody else, let's have thatconversation.
SPEAKER_02 (20:20):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_01 (20:20):
I'm not gonna go through and have and and try and
match these pricing.
I don't know you, I don't knowyour guy.
I don't know his capability.
Yeah.
And it doesn't really matter.
I don't even want to speak to itbecause it's not a it's a
non-starter.
SPEAKER_00 (20:33):
Yeah, I'm not even engaging in that, in that
conversation.
If someone, if I've started andI'm halfway through a job is
different than before we start,like those are two different
comments.
Like before we start, hey, I gota buddy, he does painting, he
said that he could do this foreight, and you quoted us at 10.
Uh but how are you not gonnaengage it?
Well, uh uh well, this isbeforehand.
I would uh that engagement isokay.
(20:54):
Well, I mean, if he wants to bea sub, great.
You know, I I do cost plus and Ican market up and I can use your
buddy if that's who you want touse.
I really like my guys and I'mgood with working with them.
They're on a schedule.
Um, I'm not gonna warranty yourbuddies paint.
Uh I'd like to I'd like to ownthe whole job.
So that's a whole notherconversation.
If we're in the middle of thejob and they're saying, like,
like the this example that waswritten, the uh, you know, the
(21:17):
clients question everythingbecause we're in the middle of
framing, they're saying the youknow, it's cheaper, they can get
it.
What I don't engage in is that Isay, hey, listen, that's that's
a conversation before we signthe quote.
That is a conversation whenpicking out, but you signed a
contract with me to for thisprice and for what we're doing.
(21:37):
And just because you findsomeone who might do it lower
quality uh and is willing tocharge you less, that that is
apples to oranges of what we'retalking about right now.
So we have a contract of whatwe're doing.
And if you want me to pause,every day that we're pause while
we're trying to figure this outwith your guy, I'm charging you
a lot of money because you'repushing our schedule and you're
pushing into the next projectthat I can't start.
(21:58):
So at this point of the project,we can't reassess that.
I don't have money built in tospend half a day reassessing all
of this and vetting your framerand vetting your appliance or
your floor refinishing guy.
Like I know the quality that I'mselling you, and just because
you got someone that wants tosell it for cheaper doesn't mean
it's the same quality of whatwe've agreed on.
(22:19):
So we've got a contract forthis.
If you want to cancel thecontract, that's another
conversation.
You owe me 15% of the remainingof the contract.
But you know, at this point,it's gonna cost us money to even
have this conversation becauseI've got to rearrange, I've got
to pause on work on the jobsite.
Uh, and so, you know, like Idon't want to get into that
because it never goes well whenwe pause at this point and you
don't want to pay change order,but I don't have money budgeted
(22:43):
to spend time going through allof this for the next five hours
with you and talking about thatcrew.
So outside of us pausing andtalking about a change order
today as to what that's gonnalook like, I don't think that's
a it's a healthy conversationfor us to have right now.
What do you think they'd say tothat?
I don't know.
Yeah, I mean it's situational,it's client-wise, and a lot of
(23:06):
times it's they're they're doingit to try to get your price
down.
And it's like, that's not I'mnot no, I'm not engaged.
Like, no, we already had have acontract.
If you want to cancel thecontract, it's 15% of the
remaining of the contract, andwe can get it canceled, we'll
figure out an exit strategy onthe job site.
But this is conversation forlast month when we boom were in
pre-construction about pricingand what we were using.
(23:28):
This is not at this point, we'reyou know, the ship sailed.
Like we there's thisconversation isn't a healthy one
to have right now.
SPEAKER_01 (23:35):
Yeah, I think my initial thought is the rest of
this job, if they if if they endup going with staying with you,
the rest of this job is gonna bejust a total act of contrition.
They're gonna want a pound offlesh every time anything goes
wrong.
Yep.
And I'm kinda I kind of want outof that job at that point.
(23:56):
Yeah, to be honest.
Yeah, if I'm just being honest.
Sure.
SPEAKER_00 (24:00):
But I I think it's there's two types of clients.
One's trying to nickel and dimeyou and beat you up on price,
and you probably want out ofthat job anyways.
And the other one is literallythinking they're helping.
I've got a framer that'scheaper, and like, why don't we
just use blah blah blah?
You know, my buddy's acontractor, blah, blah, blah.
And I'll first is like, yourbuddy's a contractor, why didn't
you use him?
Yeah, like why am I here?
(24:20):
Like, uh, this doesn't makesense.
Well, he's super busy.
Okay, well, uh that's not ourconversation right now.
But but like those people thatare trying to help, if you say
what I just said of like, hey,that's a pre-construction
conversation at this point, allchange orders and all pausing on
work, it's costing money.
And so I don't want to waste anymoney on this.
And if we want to have thisconversation, I'm gonna have to
(24:41):
pause everything that'shappening on the job site and
it's gonna cost cash.
And I I don't want to charge youthat, but we're gonna have to if
you want to pause.
Right.
So it's on them to pause, not onme.
Um, and if they're a good clientand they're just trying to be
helpful, they're like, oh no,that's fine.
Just do it.
You're good, good, keep going.
Um, and if they're nickel anddiming, they're gonna be like,
well, you know, if if it's acheaper price, I'm like, well,
(25:02):
we're we signed a contract.
It doesn't matter if it's acheaper price.
You've purchased this the mealat this point and we've already
cooked the steak.
Like you're paying for it.
Um, and I think I think that'smore of my I'm not entering in
without a without an agreementof change order of of extra
money.
Like, I'm not gonna have thatsit down with your countertop
guy or your flooring guy.
And like, we're not I've alreadygot it planned out.
(25:24):
I've already thepre-construction, like we set it
up.
I spend 90% of my time inpre-con.
The rest other 10% is makingsure everything happens like we
planned.
Well, I already spent that timein the 90%, so you got to pay me
for more time now.
And and I don't want to wasteyour money on doing that.
So um here's a good one.
(25:44):
Uh uh I I've got a way that I dothis, but I'd like to hear
you're the midnight texterclient who texts you all hours
of the night.
And I know we've gotten our CEA,we talk about our work hours,
but uh, you know, 11:30, 1 a.m.,early Sunday mornings with I got
a quick question or an urgentidea.
If I don't reply immediately,they follow up with a hello, are
you ghosting us?
I'm starting to uh resent theproject because I feel like I'm
(26:06):
called, I'm on call 24-7.
I want to set boundaries, butI'm worried they'll call me
unprofessional and review how Ishould handle this.
Which number one, this is CEA101.
We talk about work hours whenyou can, why you can't, why I
ask you for that respect of mytime.
Let's say you've had thatconversation with the client and
you're project managing.
(26:26):
It's easy with as a GM to standup for your PMs, uh, to say,
hey, listen, I want to keep hiswife happy because if she's
happy, he's working here foreverand he's a great employee of
mine.
And so please don't text atnight because that's pulling him
away from his family.
That's easy to say as the boss.
When it's a one-man show, whenI'm out doing my own CEAs about
this, and then they overstep theline.
(26:48):
How would you handle that uh inin that situation?
SPEAKER_01 (26:53):
Uh you just in my mind, it's uh you absolutely
have to address it head onbecause there's no there's no
way to skirt around it.
They're absolutely that's athat's a bad that's a human
boundary.
There's nobody unless you're uhmaking millions of dollars and
uh like that's your job is to beon call 24-7.
(27:19):
That is not an appropriate thingfor anybody to do.
It's just common courtesy.
And so it's hey, I appreciatethat this is a uh an issue that
needs to be resolved.
Uh I do need to remind you aboutthe CEA and that there are
certain hours that we've askedfor email communication, not
(27:40):
text communication, and you'vetexted me multiple times this
week uh at very late hours.
I have a family, I have a life,and your job is very important
to me, but I do need time towhere I am I am off the clock,
just as you need time to be offthe clock.
Uh this is not a you're there'snot a flood happening, this is a
(28:04):
paint color issue, this is atile placement issue, that thing
is not going to degradeovernight.
Uh I will address that in themorning.
I honestly think that needs tobe an email and then a phone
call because you need record ofit.
Yeah.
Because that's a that happensand the people that are doing
(28:24):
again a reasonable person doesnot do this.
Correct.
And so you do need to kind ofgame plan how you're going to
deal with that.
Because you can't come in gunsblazing because you're going
against a crazy person.
SPEAKER_00 (28:37):
Well, I I've uh I'll push back on that.
I've had reasonable people thatjust don't have a lot of social
sense that have not a lot, but II remember one specific client
that she was just out to lunchand just like when it came to
her brain, it it came to myphone.
And I think with that, that typeof a client, you're right, most
(28:58):
people are like self-centered,unreasonable.
Like, well, I need this and I'mpaying you.
Um, she wasn't that way, but butagain, I think the conversation
is I try to personalize, likemake it not personalize it.
I try to help them see theperson behind it.
Where for me, uh like I like toexplain, I do this during the
CEA, but I'll do it even more atthis moment of, hey, listen, I
(29:22):
know this is super stressful,having your house tore up, and
this is like a very, verycritical part of that process.
And for you, like this is big.
And it's big for me too.
But I've been doing this for 20years.
And if I don't have reallystrong boundaries where I can
recharge my batteries at nightsand weekends, I'm not gonna be
my full self on Monday morningwhen I show up to your job side.
(29:44):
I'm gonna miss stuff.
And so for me, even though thisis like a short four-month
season for you, this is a20-year lifelong job for me.
And so I can't be taking textmessages at 11:30 at night.
I can't be sending, you know,getting phone calls on Sunday
morning.
Like those are my times torecharge my batteries and have a
(30:04):
life outside of this.
So when I show up Mondaymorning, you get all of me and
my brain's ready to go.
And so I've got, I've had topersonally draw this line, and
this is a commitment to my wifeand family of like, I'm not
gonna answer these.
Now, if you I you know I'mordering paint Monday morning
and you're changing the colorSunday at 8 p.m., text me.
Make sure I don't order thatpaint.
(30:24):
I totally get it.
That that type of emergencymakes sense.
But if you're calling to talkabout the different uh color
swatches for the wall and we'renot painting for three weeks,
shoot me an email.
You like I said, I come to yourjob set every morning, every
Monday, and and let's meetMonday morning.
Let's meet out at your house andwe'll talk about it.
And you know I'm coming outthere on Monday.
So let's meet then or let's talkon Monday about it.
(30:46):
But uh, you know, this is onething, and why I put it in our
CEA is because it's so importantto my family that I can
disconnect from work and have abalance where they are there and
I'm present with them.
And so I'm always on top of myphone.
I I care about my clients.
SPEAKER_01 (31:02):
What if they don't have a family and they feel like
you're throwing that in theirface?
SPEAKER_00 (31:07):
Then they need to go see a therapist.
For me to say I've got a familyand I've got to prioritize that
time is me asking you to respectmy boundaries.
It's not an I'm better than you.
It's a I'm I I have theseboundaries.
Oh, I know.
I'm just throwing it out there.
Yeah.
No, I mean there are people thatagain, this is we we I mean,
(31:28):
this let's change this podcastto why the CEA is important
podcast, because literally it'slike I don't care if you if you
disagree with what I'm saying.
We signed a piece of paper threeweeks ago that says that you're
not gonna do this.
Yeah.
And so I'm not gonna, I'm, I'm,I'm not gonna do that.
And I I've had clients, coachingclients that are this way.
And I'm like, I've had to havethe conversation of like, hey
(31:49):
man, I'm not I'm not 24 or 7,and you live on the west coast,
and that's three hours behind.
So when you think you're shootme at seven, uh it's 10 o'clock
my time.
And we can't do that.
Like I I just can't at at thosetimes.
Uh and people get it, and itmakes sense.
I mean, there's not a lot of Idon't think have you ever had
this conversation with a clientand then like, well, tough luck,
I'm texting you when I want totext.
(32:12):
Yes.
You have?
Yeah.
What'd you do about it?
I've never I've I don't thinkI've ever had someone say too
bad, I'm gonna do it anyways.
SPEAKER_01 (32:20):
Uh the uh I can't I I I can't remember the uh the
people's names, I wouldn't sayit anyway, but they uh it was a
couple and there was like uh inthe middle of a divorce type of
situation.
It was bad.
It was just bad all around.
But that guy didn't care one wayor another about time, about how
(32:46):
often.
SPEAKER_02 (32:47):
Oh yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
I was just I was just gr thatwas a very you had a project
manager running that one.
Yes.
Yeah, yeah.
SPEAKER_00 (32:55):
Yeah.
Uh uh, but again, you you stoodup to him and were like, that's
not okay, we're not doing that.
I I would have no problemtelling the client, that guy,
and being like, hey, just so youknow, like we're only doing
email communication.
Uh I'm I'm not gonna beanswering texts or phone calls
at this point because uh youknow, I've set that boundary and
you you've crossed it manytimes.
(33:15):
And I, you know, I've I feeldisrespectful to be honest, and
I don't I I feel like you're nottrying to be disrespectful, but
I feel disrespected.
So, you know, from now on, we'reonly doing emails.
And then I'd block his number onmy phone and just stick to
emails because that'ssubmittable in court and I'm
getting everything in email.
Um, but again, it's that clientthat you got to protect yourself
from.
Yeah.
That I don't care if they usethis again.
(33:37):
All right, I'm gonna say onelast one before we close out
because this was a recent one.
It's not on not on here.
Um we uh I was had a clientcoaching client that um we were
going, he was trying to exit thejob.
The client thought that that heshould not that he should get
money back for something.
(33:57):
Um and he and the the mycoaching client was like, I did
all the work.
This guy's just trying to rip meoff.
Like he wants twelve hundreddollars back, something stupid
because he didn't like the waysomething turned out, but he
signed off on it and we're fineto leave.
Well, dumb out of the situation.
The client wanted him to cut hima check back.
(34:18):
Um and so he, you know, he hecalled me, he was like, I don't
know how to handle this becauseI don't want a negative review,
I want a positive review, muchless I don't want a negative
one.
Um, I don't owe him the moneyback legally, morally.
Like, I don't owe him that cash.
Like, I did the work, I've gotphotos, he signed off on it.
He just is trying to get moneyback because he wants to hire
someone else to do a differentcolor, uh, even though it was
(34:38):
the color we talked about,whatever it was.
Um, how do I handle this withoutgetting a bad review?
And what I said was, uh, I waslike, we have this piece of
paper, and I gave uh I sent himthe paper.
It's a the lien release waiver.
Um, but in it, it not only says,hey, listen, um upon final
(34:59):
payment, I need this, this, andthis.
But long story short, in thelien release, they came to an
agreement to walk away, but hethought that the client was
gonna give him a bad review.
And so in the lien release, weput in there that this is
releasing, this releasing mefrom the project, you from, you
know, this is the final paymentthat you're paying me.
This is we're gonna end thisway, this is how much I'm owed.
(35:20):
Sign this.
Um, because he was cutting himback some money for some of the
materials that weren't spent.
So he was like, I will give himX amount of dollars, but not the
full amount that he's asking,but you got to sign this for me
to release that check.
Part of that signature said, Um,neither party can publicly
slander or um discuss this inpublic about the other party.
(35:41):
I mean, we put that in there toprotect them.
I don't know if you rememberthis.
We we've done this on a coupleclients in Atlanta, but like uh
to protect them to where if theyput a negative review online,
I've got a piece of paper signedthat ended the job that was a
lean release that says that theycan't post negatively about me
in public.
SPEAKER_01 (35:56):
We actually could have gone after that one girl
because she did.
SPEAKER_00 (35:59):
Yes.
Yeah.
And I think we emailed her andsaid she couldn't.
I think she took it down.
Oh, I think you're right.
But um, again, it was like, hey,listen, I will settle for you,
settle on this with you and cutyou some money back.
Not the whole amount that you'reasking, but the amount that's
reasonable.
But I need us to assign thatthis is our end of our
relationship and we're not gonnabe done.
(36:21):
And it's protecting bothparties, like to the client on
that lean release, it says, Hey,I've paid all my subs.
You owe me no more money afterafter this, I owe you no more
money, we're we're gonna walkaway.
Um, but in there we have itwritten to where no party can
talk publicly, negatively inpublic about the other.
Uh, and they they've asked meabout like, hey, what does this
mean?
(36:41):
It means you're not gonna giveme a negative review and I'm not
gonna trash you online.
That's all it means.
I don't, I'm not planning on it.
Are you planning on it?
unknown (36:48):
Right.
SPEAKER_00 (36:48):
It's like, oh no, no, okay, cool, we're good.
Give me my check.
We're good, we're good to go.
So, again, stuff like that towhere it's like, I'm gonna think
about how to exit this cleanly,how to not get it.
Now, you can't always have themsign that because you're asking
them to pay you money so there'snot as much.
So that's a kind of a one-offwhere you he do the money back.
Um, but again, it's like, hey,listen, I want to do this lien
release so you don't have a lienput on your house because I want
(37:11):
to prove to you that I've paidall my guys and then I'm not
gonna lean your house.
Most of the time, clients arelike, Yeah, I want to, I want
that signed.
Um, and so those that that typeof way to try and exit right,
exit the right way withoutgetting a negative review was
was helpful in that situation.
So all right, that was a lot.
I feel like I didn't realize,but this is a stressful podcast
(37:32):
for you.
SPEAKER_01 (37:33):
I was going to say this off the off the it bubble.
I could see like I'm just I'm init.
Yes.
I'm in it.
Yes, you can't talk about it.
Follow everything you're saying.
I'm like, yeah, last week.
Yeah, two weeks ago.
I hate that guy.
Yeah, I'm so ready to be donewith that project.
I'm so annoyed.
There are so many situationalfactors that change how you
(37:56):
would act on any given situationthat it's impossible.
It's impossible.
SPEAKER_00 (38:01):
Yeah.
Uh you're putting names byyou're like, oh, that's Suzanne.
Uh-huh.
Oh, and that's uh uh I'm sorryfor this one.
We won't do it again.
It's okay.
SPEAKER_01 (38:08):
There's probably a better format for it.
Maybe just me not answeringbecause I don't I'm I'm so I'll
do one of the coaching cuts withone off if we do this again.
SPEAKER_00 (38:18):
Uh you won't have to be there.
All right.
Thank you guys for listening.
If you have any questions orneed help with anything that's
similar to this, or send us anemail.
If you go to uh ProShark360.comor contractorcuts.com, you'll go
to the contact us page.
You can send emails there.
If you have a question and needhelp with something, whether
it's something similar to thisor something else, send it.
I will personally answer youback.
(38:38):
They'll it'll it will end up inmy inbox and I will send you a
response on how I would handleit.
SPEAKER_01 (38:43):
And if you want somebody to just join and pour
fuel on the fire, Clark willgive me my my email.
SPEAKER_00 (38:49):
We'll send it over to James.
And if you want someone to justlike randomly cuss out your
client, like that's I will prankphone call your client.
For$20, we will send annoyingtext to your client every
morning.
They will never know.
Well morning, Cory goes.
Uh TM.
All right.
Thanks for listening.
Uh we'll talk to you guys nextweek.
(39:11):
Bye.
Welcome to Contractor Cuts, where we cover
the good, the bad, and the uglyof growing a successful
contracting company.
Welcome to Contractor Cuts.
SPEAKER_00 (00:15):
Why do you always do this to me?
My name is Clark Turner.
I'm sitting with JamesMcConnell, and here we are again
on the Contractor Cuts podcast.
SPEAKER_01 (00:23):
I've noticed something.
When I when I say it with you,you introduce me.
SPEAKER_00 (00:29):
So you don't have to do it.
And I don't know why it's sohard to say your freaking name,
but you won't say it, so that'sokay.
That's good.
You you participate, but you'relike I'm James, and I'm James.
SPEAKER_02 (00:40):
James on Kyle.
All right.
I'll I'll start introducing you,and you can say introduce me.
Okay.
Perfect.
And this is Clark Turner's.
SPEAKER_00 (00:48):
Turner's on plural.
All right.
So thank you for joining usagain today.
We are taking caller requests.
They literally call those.
SPEAKER_02 (00:58):
They literally call these names.
SPEAKER_00 (01:01):
No, we uh uh we can I meant longtime listener, first
time caller.
We are um going throughsituations that either have been
given to us or stuff that uh myuh coaching clients have brought
up.
We haven't read these, we'regonna go blind.
Some of them are are given tous, some of them might be really
(01:23):
good and 10 minutes worth ofconversation, some might be a
30-second answer, but we'regonna really kind of go through
situations with clients that wedeal with as contractors and
what James and I would do inthose situations.
All right, you ready?
Yeah, all right.
The first one, and I've gotthese written down and I'm gonna
read them live.
I've I haven't read through themmost of them.
SPEAKER_01 (01:43):
I've read A lot of you think we don't look through
these suggestions, but we doevery week.
All of them.
SPEAKER_00 (01:52):
All right, so the first one is the Pinterest
change order client.
I'm remodeling a kitchen and theclient keeps sending me new
Pinterest screenshots everynight.
We had a sign scope, but nowthey want a different
backsplash, upgraded appliances,a waterfall island, a custom
shelving, etc.
All if it doesn't change theprice too much, they say, uh,
we're already paying so much,can't you just swap it out?
(02:14):
I've tried to explain changeorders, but they get irritated
and say, I'm nickel and dimingthem.
James, how should I handle this?
SPEAKER_01 (02:24):
Well, um, there's a front-end process we've talked
about in due diligence andpre-construction, and it you
know uh most of this uh thisstill happens if you do that.
Yes.
This can still happen if even ifyou do that.
So let's assume let's assumethey've uh exp I think it's easy
(02:44):
enough to say if you haven'tdone a preconstruction or a due
diligence, if you don't havethat as part of your process,
that's the problem.
Yes.
That's the fix.
Yes.
A lot of the times though, itdoesn't matter.
You're gonna still have clientsthat are uh yeah, yeah, yeah,
great, let's sign it, let's signit, great, great, great.
Yeah, oh sure, yeah, we cancommit to having all the
decisions before we start.
Absolutely not a problem.
And they're still gonna do it.
SPEAKER_02 (03:05):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_01 (03:06):
This is like an uncomfortable situation, but you
do need to have a conversationwhere it's hey let's we need to
we need to stop making changesbecause we can't we can't go
further down the road until weknow where we're going.
SPEAKER_02 (03:21):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_01 (03:22):
And you keep changing the directions, you
keep changing the destination,you keep changing what we're
gonna do when we get there.
We need to know exactly whatwe're doing.
Yeah.
And all of these things thatyou're talking about, the
waterfall edge, that's moremoney.
There's no way I can get aroundthat.
It's not a swap, it's anaddition, not just in material
but in labor.
(03:42):
Uh the the if they're trying tochange fossil or uh uh like
shower fixtures, the plumberneeds the valve to rough in.
So it's not like it's at theend.
Your client might not understandthose things.
And so one of the things wealways talk about is getting
back into education, educatingthe client.
And I think this really falls inline with that is educating
(04:04):
them, and you gotta find a wayto do it where it's not, you
know, like listen, listen,buddy, listen, lady.
Yeah.
We we can't do it.
You have to find a way that's Iunderstand that.
Um here's the issue timelines,uh, the money, the budget, we're
uh renegotiating with the crews.
(04:24):
We've already gone through thatprocess.
So there's a hard conversationthat you need to figure out how
to make it a cons a consumableconversation for the group.
SPEAKER_00 (04:34):
I'd also add two things on that.
One, oh you missed some areas,let me fill in that that you
missed, James.
Uh no, the the first thing,you're talking about the the due
diligence and the clientengagement agreement.
One thing, and I think you evenmentioned it, like one issue
I've had with project managersin the past is they just their
goal, their job, their checkmark is to get a signature on
(04:55):
the CEA.
Well, having a client sign itwithout going through, the whole
reason of the CEA is to takethem through it and educate and
get on the same page.
And so if I just send it over,they skim it, they sign it,
they're good to go.
You haven't set the rules of thegame.
You haven't spent the time.
And so there's this part, thechange order, the change of
scope uh part is a very smallparagraph, uh, three sentence
(05:17):
paragraph on the CEA.
Yeah.
But what I do on that is youhave to talk about that one.
And so that's one like everysingle, every single line on
CEA, I'm expounding on.
So on that one, it's like, hey,listen, just want you to know,
like, if you pick out X, if youpick out the tile for the
backsplash, I'm gonna go andorder it.
We're gonna have it on site.
My guys are gonna be lined up.
(05:38):
And if the day before you say,hey, we need to change the
change, I really want to do it.
I found this green backsplashand it's really cool.
I want to kind of go with thisfunkier looking backsplash.
I just want you to know if youpick that out now, it costs you
nothing as long as it'scomparable tiles.
If you pick it out the daybefore we're starting, I now
have to restock the old one andI gotta pay someone to go pick
(05:58):
it up on our job site and takeit back.
I gotta go hunt down the newone.
I gotta get it there, whichpushes my my backsplash guy
another day or two because I'vegot to get it.
And he might have another joblined up.
So it might push him to nextweek because he's got a job
after yours.
The cascade effect.
The cascade effect.
And so I push him to next weekso the tiles won't go until next
week, which means then the nextcrew can't come in until and so
(06:20):
we've lost a week on your job.
I've spent hours and hoursrearranging the rest of the
cascade effect.
And so I've got to spend timebuilding out a new Gantt chart,
new timelines, and rearrangeeverybody and get that old tile
back and make sure that theright tile kits on site and that
we have enough square footage.
And so all of that, if you makethat decision a couple days
(06:40):
before we do the tile, is gonnacost time and money.
And I don't wanna, I want thisto be the most efficient and
cheap, effectively priced jobthat you can that we can do for
you.
I saw you bail on cheap.
Not cheap.
I want this to be as efficientas possible with your money.
And so by doing that in in the11th hour, you're costing us
(07:01):
time, and time costs me money.
Because if I spend an extrahour, an extra week on your job
site, I'm not making any moremoney.
And so you're costing me money.
So I've got to somehow make upfor all of the time I spend
rearranging all this stuff andthat, and you gotta pay for that
time.
And I don't want to charge youthat, but I have to because
you're spending it.
Does that make sense?
Right, and you're sitting at theCEA and be like, oh, that makes
so much sense.
(07:22):
And so when I get that that uhthe comment of, hey, uh, you
know, here's another idea, youknow, I was thinking about doing
this with the and they're notdoing it daily, but it's three
times in a job.
Like, hey, what if we did this?
What if I take instead of doingan island, we do like a little
peninsula off the cabinets,right?
Some sort of thing that they sawthat they really like.
I oh, should we go back and getthe drawings redone?
unknown (07:44):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_00 (07:45):
No, I I go in advocacy mode.
Like I'm talking with my wife ormy mom who's doing her own
kitchen.
Like, I go into like, oh man,but that's gonna cost us a lot
of extra money.
What if we did and I and so I'mtrying to not spend their money
and trying to avoid the changeorder.
Like, uh, I just am myconversation, is assuming
there's more cost to it.
(08:05):
Instead of me delivering the badnews, hey, just so you know,
you're gonna owe us an extra$3,000 for that.
Instead of that, I'm saying,okay, let's figure out because
that's uh assumed is three grandextra to do that.
Let me figure out let's how canwe decrease the cost of that
change order?
And so now we're not talkingabout if they're gonna pay three
grand.
Now we're talking about how dowe decrease the three grand.
(08:26):
Right.
And so the the rhetoric that I'musing with the client is
assuming those costs are there,because we talked about it in
the CEA.
And so they're like, oh, that'sgonna cost money.
Like, yeah, yeah, like we talkedabout.
Remember, that it's uh it'sgonna take a lot of time and
effort and and it's gonna costus money to rearrange schedules
at this point.
So let's try to figure out howdo we can do instead of doing
that, what if you were we weredoing this?
(08:47):
That'd only cost you a thousandextra instead of three thousand.
And they're like, well, I don'twant to pay any extra.
Like, okay, well then we let'sjust stick with we got.
Yeah, and so it's it's ourproblem that we're trying to
solve together as opposed to mebeing their problem.
Instead of it's like, well,Clark's trying to charge me
another three grand.
Instead, it's like, well, he'strying to figure out if we can
do it for less than that.
I'm pretty like, and now I'm ahero, not the problem, right?
(09:08):
And so it's the it's therhetoric that I use on those
things of like, well, it'sassumed we've already talked
about it's three grand to dothat.
It's five grand to uh to dothat.
It's crazy.
It's gonna cost thir$3,200 extradollars because I've got to
rearrange things, I've got topay my tile guy who already is
booked for tomorrow, that I'vehe can't go get onto another
job, so I gotta pay him fortomorrow.
(09:29):
Uh, and start talking about allthat stuff with them.
And it's like, ah, you knowwhat?
Just leave it.
Just leave it.
That's fine.
SPEAKER_01 (09:34):
And then just throw the word COVID in there and you
know COVID.
SPEAKER_00 (09:39):
Tariffs.
What?
Uh so that's I think that'sgood.
Yeah.
Good answer to them.
All right.
So next one.
The while you're here scopecreek.
And this is kind of the similar.
Uh, I'm on a job site to redo abathroom.
Every time I show up, thehomeowner adds something.
Uh while you're here, can youjust replace that light?
SPEAKER_01 (09:57):
While you're here, can you just?
SPEAKER_00 (09:58):
Yes.
Can you touch up that wall?
Since you've got the tools out,can you just get that door fixed
a little bit because it alwayssticks when it closes?
None of this is in the contract,and they act shocked when I
mention extra costs.
It feels pretty, it feels pettyto write a change order over
this tiny stuff, but it startsadding up in time and materials.
How should I handle this?
(10:20):
How would you handle it?
Uh man, I don't know.
SPEAKER_01 (10:29):
Yeah, you just you gotta charge them.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Well uh I I do it early.
Yeah.
I do it early, and then I ifthere's anything that we're
doing for free, that it's likeyou you get it.
You you're in the middle of ajob.
There are certain things thatyou're like, yeah, that's not
gonna be that much, but I'msetting a precedent.
So the first change order, noquestion.
(10:52):
I'm charging them.
SPEAKER_02 (10:53):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_01 (10:53):
I don't care how big or small it is, I'm saying it's
a change order.
Because it's easier in the verybeginning to point back to the
CEA and say, I get it, it's asmall deal, it is a change
order, it's$175 to do XYZ.
I have to renegotiate it withthe crew, I gotta get the
material, we gotta put it in thescope.
It's just it's more money.
SPEAKER_02 (11:14):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_01 (11:14):
As things go on, there's gonna be these random
things that you feel like you'reit you don't want to be
ticky-tacky, and there is abalance and there is a game.
And you could be the guy that'slike, I charge for every single
CO, every single time,absolutely.
But we all know things get veryconvoluted.
They're you might not be 100% onyour game every single day.
(11:35):
You're gonna let one slide, andthen there's precedent.
Yeah.
So it's uh that's a really hardquestion to answer because every
situation is so different.
You're like weighing is thestress that this client's gonna
put me under.
Because some people like justlike to negotiate.
Some people that's just the gamethat they like to play.
(11:57):
And for me, I hate that game.
And so if it's not a huge costto me, I'm gonna be like, it'd
be so much easier to just eatthis and be like, no problem
there.
SPEAKER_00 (12:05):
Well, I I would almost like what you just said,
(13:08):
like it's easier just to eat itand not not deal with this.
I always try to be set myproject managers up, which if
it's your one, if I'm doing it,set myself up to be and feel
like and look like a hero on it.
So that that being said, of Imean, something like that's like
200 extra dollars.
I'll tell you what, I'm gonna dothis for you, but I it's it's
(13:29):
kind of eaten into any sort ofbuffer I I got in this job, but
I'm gonna go ahead and handlethis$200 change order.
I'm not gonna charge you for it.
I got you on this one, right?
To where next time they ask,hey, can you also get this?
And actually, that's I gottacharge.
Like, we've already uh I'vealready kind of blown my extra
money that I can burn on this onthat on the door that we fixed.
(13:50):
Can like this is gonna be it'sit's only$150 extra dollars, but
I I I kind of like we gotta havea change order for this one
thing.
SPEAKER_01 (13:57):
Um, I've thought about in the past having like a
uh a line item or a section oflike extras and talking about it
in the CEA and being like,there's gonna be times where you
ask for extra things.
I'm gonna add that to the scopeevery time so we can see what
that actually ends up being.
(14:19):
I don't know how to land thatplane, but there's always these
little things, and it's like,you don't want to be nickel and
dimed.
I don't want to nickel and dimeyou, I don't want to have to
keep doing all these changeorders.
I'm gonna keep it visible forall of us because once it gets
to like$1,500, I'm gonna say,hey, can I invoice?
Can I invoice you for this?
(14:41):
Do you see how much free workwe've done?
Yep.
SPEAKER_00 (14:43):
Yep.
I think that's great.
I think you got to be on top ofyour software with the change
orders.
But I think that's a great oneof like, hey, I'm gonna do that.
I'm gonna put it on the scope,I'm gonna have it zero dollar,
but I'm gonna go ahead and justhave it written down so it's
warrantied.
Right?
That was always my thing.
Like, I'm gonna put it on thescope just so it's warrantied,
and and it's covered that we didthis out here.
It's like$200 to fix that, butI'm gonna just cover it.
(15:04):
So line item, repair door,$200,$0 on the scope.
But then they ask again, and Ican point back and be like,
look, I did this, this, this,and this.
We're over$700 of change ordersin this point forward.
I'm kind of out of extra.
And that makes sense because,like, oh, you've done all this
stuff.
I didn't realize all this freestuff that you're done.
(15:24):
And that's also helping menegotiate at the end of the job
if they're trying to hold backmoney.
Well, you know, you weresupposed to paint four walls and
you did three and a half, right?
Because I, you know, butwhatever it is.
Uh I, you know, can you take 500bucks off?
Like, and my all my thing alwayswhen can you take 500 extra off
because of this?
Can you just not pay no, notcharge me for this?
(15:45):
You know, you charge me for allthat tile, and I see this as two
boxes that you're gonna return.
Am I getting that money back?
All of those types of nickel anddime that they're doing back to
me.
I've got my scope, and I say,that's fine.
I we can kind of go through thatand nickel a dime for over that
$50.
That's fine.
We can look at that.
But I am gonna have to enforcethat$700 of free work I did
because I did that.
Now you're nickel and diming onthis other stuff.
(16:07):
And like it's I think it's fairto say either we just cancel all
this out and you got some freestuff and you overpaid for half
of a wall, uh, those are gonnacancel each other out and we're
good to go.
Or if you want to, I can spendan hour or two, kind of go
through all my receipts, figureout how much uh discount you're
gonna get, and but you're gonnapay me for that$700 of free work
(16:27):
I did.
And at that point, I've saidI've like said that to clients.
I'm like, oh, you know what?
Just don't worry about it.
Just don't worry about it.
Because a lot of times it's whenclients are like, can I see all
the receipts of everything youpurchased?
And I say, no, that wasn't partof, you know, I wasn't planning
on that.
I've got them all, but I I justdon't have the uh, you know, it
I didn't build in five hours togo through and build
spreadsheets for this job and Ididn't charge you for that.
(16:48):
And if you want to pay me forfive hours of work, I'll do
that.
But I do want to let you know ifwe do that and it comes out
where you owe me more moneybecause I had to buy extra
stuff, I'm gonna have a changeorder on that.
So let's avoid the change orderand save you money altogether
and not pay me for five hours ofextra work that we didn't plan
for, and let's just call it.
I've I've said that to clients.
That's not just uh and it works.
(17:10):
Clients are like, ah, that'sfine.
Yeah, don't worry, but I didn'trealize it was that much work.
And every single time becausethey're like, Oh, yeah, I don't
want to pay extra money.
Because I'm I'm always actuallybought more than what we
budgeted for.
But if you want me to pull ittogether, I'll do it, but it's
gonna cost you and I'm gonnahave to do a change order for
you.
So I think that's a good one.
Um, this is a good one for you.
The I know a guy who will do itcheaper.
(17:32):
We're halfway through anedition.
I don't know where the clienttells me their buddy, who's a
contractor, says my framing andfinishes are overpriced and he
can do it cheaper.
The client is now questioningevery line item on my estimate
and wants me to match the priceof this mystery friend who's
never actually submitted a bidor seen the drawing.
I don't want to get into a raceto the bottom or trash their
(17:54):
buddy, but I also don't want tolose the job or my margin.
How can I handle this one?
SPEAKER_01 (18:07):
These are these are also situational.
They're also situational, and Iguess that's the point, but when
again, this is a part of theCEA, so that's number one.
And in a situation like this,I'm looking at it like, oh,
we're in DEF CON 5 here.
Like this is if somebody'sbringing that to me in the
(18:29):
middle of a project, number one,I'm like, you didn't care about
the CEA, you didn't payattention to the it's very clear
that what that what they'redoing in this moment is 1,000%
wrong.
Yes.
So you're dealing with somebodythat is already kind of
unreasonable and you're kind ofapproaching a situation like
(18:49):
that.
Yeah.
And so I would just get verymuch I'd bust the CEA back out
and say, hey, listen, we're atthis point in the project, we've
got this much left.
I'm not going I I can't let yougo in here and take pieces out
at this point.
You're we're talking about onething that's different.
We're talking about the uh mycousin does countertops.
(19:15):
All right, that's fine.
Have your cousin do countertops.
We're gonna go in give me a bit,I'll mark it up.
We're gonna we're gonna go inbefore they do the countertops,
we're gonna take pictures ofeverything.
We're gonna come in after theydo the countertops, take
pictures of everything.
You're gonna pay me the markupbecause that's I'm managing it.
I'm managing it.
Yeah, like you're not gonnamanage this, I'm gonna manage it
(19:35):
because if something happens,I'm gonna be on the hook for it.
We we already know this.
So uh we're gonna take picturesof before, we're gonna take
pictures after.
Uh we'll get it whatever.
We'll figure that out.
But if you're seriously goingthrough the whole scope and
trying to get me to matchpricing, that's a that's a
relationship ender.
Yeah.
It could be.
So you need to approach it thatway.
(19:57):
Hey, we're I hear what you'resaying, you're not happy with
we're not gonna do that.
The way that I've bid it out ishow I needed to bid it out for
my company to be able to do thisproject, and you chose to go
with us.
Yeah.
If you're unhappy with yourproject at this point and we
need to talk about going adifferent direction and finding
a good spot to shut this downand let you take it over with
(20:17):
somebody else, let's have thatconversation.
SPEAKER_02 (20:20):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_01 (20:20):
I'm not gonna go through and have and and try and
match these pricing.
I don't know you, I don't knowyour guy.
I don't know his capability.
Yeah.
And it doesn't really matter.
I don't even want to speak to itbecause it's not a it's a
non-starter.
SPEAKER_00 (20:33):
Yeah, I'm not even engaging in that, in that
conversation.
If someone, if I've started andI'm halfway through a job is
different than before we start,like those are two different
comments.
Like before we start, hey, I gota buddy, he does painting, he
said that he could do this foreight, and you quoted us at 10.
Uh but how are you not gonnaengage it?
Well, uh uh well, this isbeforehand.
I would uh that engagement isokay.
(20:54):
Well, I mean, if he wants to bea sub, great.
You know, I I do cost plus and Ican market up and I can use your
buddy if that's who you want touse.
I really like my guys and I'mgood with working with them.
They're on a schedule.
Um, I'm not gonna warranty yourbuddies paint.
Uh I'd like to I'd like to ownthe whole job.
So that's a whole notherconversation.
If we're in the middle of thejob and they're saying, like,
like the this example that waswritten, the uh, you know, the
(21:17):
clients question everythingbecause we're in the middle of
framing, they're saying the youknow, it's cheaper, they can get
it.
What I don't engage in is that Isay, hey, listen, that's that's
a conversation before we signthe quote.
That is a conversation whenpicking out, but you signed a
contract with me to for thisprice and for what we're doing.
(21:37):
And just because you findsomeone who might do it lower
quality uh and is willing tocharge you less, that that is
apples to oranges of what we'retalking about right now.
So we have a contract of whatwe're doing.
And if you want me to pause,every day that we're pause while
we're trying to figure this outwith your guy, I'm charging you
a lot of money because you'repushing our schedule and you're
pushing into the next projectthat I can't start.
(21:58):
So at this point of the project,we can't reassess that.
I don't have money built in tospend half a day reassessing all
of this and vetting your framerand vetting your appliance or
your floor refinishing guy.
Like I know the quality that I'mselling you, and just because
you got someone that wants tosell it for cheaper doesn't mean
it's the same quality of whatwe've agreed on.
(22:19):
So we've got a contract forthis.
If you want to cancel thecontract, that's another
conversation.
You owe me 15% of the remainingof the contract.
But you know, at this point,it's gonna cost us money to even
have this conversation becauseI've got to rearrange, I've got
to pause on work on the jobsite.
Uh, and so, you know, like Idon't want to get into that
because it never goes well whenwe pause at this point and you
don't want to pay change order,but I don't have money budgeted
(22:43):
to spend time going through allof this for the next five hours
with you and talking about thatcrew.
So outside of us pausing andtalking about a change order
today as to what that's gonnalook like, I don't think that's
a it's a healthy conversationfor us to have right now.
What do you think they'd say tothat?
I don't know.
Yeah, I mean it's situational,it's client-wise, and a lot of
(23:06):
times it's they're they're doingit to try to get your price
down.
And it's like, that's not I'mnot no, I'm not engaged.
Like, no, we already had have acontract.
If you want to cancel thecontract, it's 15% of the
remaining of the contract, andwe can get it canceled, we'll
figure out an exit strategy onthe job site.
But this is conversation forlast month when we boom were in
pre-construction about pricingand what we were using.
(23:28):
This is not at this point, we'reyou know, the ship sailed.
Like we there's thisconversation isn't a healthy one
to have right now.
SPEAKER_01 (23:35):
Yeah, I think my initial thought is the rest of
this job, if they if if they endup going with staying with you,
the rest of this job is gonna bejust a total act of contrition.
They're gonna want a pound offlesh every time anything goes
wrong.
Yep.
And I'm kinda I kind of want outof that job at that point.
(23:56):
Yeah, to be honest.
Yeah, if I'm just being honest.
Sure.
SPEAKER_00 (24:00):
But I I think it's there's two types of clients.
One's trying to nickel and dimeyou and beat you up on price,
and you probably want out ofthat job anyways.
And the other one is literallythinking they're helping.
I've got a framer that'scheaper, and like, why don't we
just use blah blah blah?
You know, my buddy's acontractor, blah, blah, blah.
And I'll first is like, yourbuddy's a contractor, why didn't
you use him?
Yeah, like why am I here?
(24:20):
Like, uh, this doesn't makesense.
Well, he's super busy.
Okay, well, uh that's not ourconversation right now.
But but like those people thatare trying to help, if you say
what I just said of like, hey,that's a pre-construction
conversation at this point, allchange orders and all pausing on
work, it's costing money.
And so I don't want to waste anymoney on this.
And if we want to have thisconversation, I'm gonna have to
(24:41):
pause everything that'shappening on the job site and
it's gonna cost cash.
And I I don't want to charge youthat, but we're gonna have to if
you want to pause.
Right.
So it's on them to pause, not onme.
Um, and if they're a good clientand they're just trying to be
helpful, they're like, oh no,that's fine.
Just do it.
You're good, good, keep going.
Um, and if they're nickel anddiming, they're gonna be like,
well, you know, if if it's acheaper price, I'm like, well,
(25:02):
we're we signed a contract.
It doesn't matter if it's acheaper price.
You've purchased this the mealat this point and we've already
cooked the steak.
Like you're paying for it.
Um, and I think I think that'smore of my I'm not entering in
without a without an agreementof change order of of extra
money.
Like, I'm not gonna have thatsit down with your countertop
guy or your flooring guy.
And like, we're not I've alreadygot it planned out.
(25:24):
I've already thepre-construction, like we set it
up.
I spend 90% of my time inpre-con.
The rest other 10% is makingsure everything happens like we
planned.
Well, I already spent that timein the 90%, so you got to pay me
for more time now.
And and I don't want to wasteyour money on doing that.
So um here's a good one.
(25:44):
Uh uh I I've got a way that I dothis, but I'd like to hear
you're the midnight texterclient who texts you all hours
of the night.
And I know we've gotten our CEA,we talk about our work hours,
but uh, you know, 11:30, 1 a.m.,early Sunday mornings with I got
a quick question or an urgentidea.
If I don't reply immediately,they follow up with a hello, are
you ghosting us?
I'm starting to uh resent theproject because I feel like I'm
(26:06):
called, I'm on call 24-7.
I want to set boundaries, butI'm worried they'll call me
unprofessional and review how Ishould handle this.
Which number one, this is CEA101.
We talk about work hours whenyou can, why you can't, why I
ask you for that respect of mytime.
Let's say you've had thatconversation with the client and
you're project managing.
(26:26):
It's easy with as a GM to standup for your PMs, uh, to say,
hey, listen, I want to keep hiswife happy because if she's
happy, he's working here foreverand he's a great employee of
mine.
And so please don't text atnight because that's pulling him
away from his family.
That's easy to say as the boss.
When it's a one-man show, whenI'm out doing my own CEAs about
this, and then they overstep theline.
(26:48):
How would you handle that uh inin that situation?
SPEAKER_01 (26:53):
Uh you just in my mind, it's uh you absolutely
have to address it head onbecause there's no there's no
way to skirt around it.
They're absolutely that's athat's a bad that's a human
boundary.
There's nobody unless you're uhmaking millions of dollars and
uh like that's your job is to beon call 24-7.
(27:19):
That is not an appropriate thingfor anybody to do.
It's just common courtesy.
And so it's hey, I appreciatethat this is a uh an issue that
needs to be resolved.
Uh I do need to remind you aboutthe CEA and that there are
certain hours that we've askedfor email communication, not
(27:40):
text communication, and you'vetexted me multiple times this
week uh at very late hours.
I have a family, I have a life,and your job is very important
to me, but I do need time towhere I am I am off the clock,
just as you need time to be offthe clock.
Uh this is not a you're there'snot a flood happening, this is a
(28:04):
paint color issue, this is atile placement issue, that thing
is not going to degradeovernight.
Uh I will address that in themorning.
I honestly think that needs tobe an email and then a phone
call because you need record ofit.
Yeah.
Because that's a that happensand the people that are doing
(28:24):
again a reasonable person doesnot do this.
Correct.
And so you do need to kind ofgame plan how you're going to
deal with that.
Because you can't come in gunsblazing because you're going
against a crazy person.
SPEAKER_00 (28:37):
Well, I I've uh I'll push back on that.
I've had reasonable people thatjust don't have a lot of social
sense that have not a lot, but II remember one specific client
that she was just out to lunchand just like when it came to
her brain, it it came to myphone.
And I think with that, that typeof a client, you're right, most
(28:58):
people are like self-centered,unreasonable.
Like, well, I need this and I'mpaying you.
Um, she wasn't that way, but butagain, I think the conversation
is I try to personalize, likemake it not personalize it.
I try to help them see theperson behind it.
Where for me, uh like I like toexplain, I do this during the
CEA, but I'll do it even more atthis moment of, hey, listen, I
(29:22):
know this is super stressful,having your house tore up, and
this is like a very, verycritical part of that process.
And for you, like this is big.
And it's big for me too.
But I've been doing this for 20years.
And if I don't have reallystrong boundaries where I can
recharge my batteries at nightsand weekends, I'm not gonna be
my full self on Monday morningwhen I show up to your job side.
(29:44):
I'm gonna miss stuff.
And so for me, even though thisis like a short four-month
season for you, this is a20-year lifelong job for me.
And so I can't be taking textmessages at 11:30 at night.
I can't be sending, you know,getting phone calls on Sunday
morning.
Like those are my times torecharge my batteries and have a
(30:04):
life outside of this.
So when I show up Mondaymorning, you get all of me and
my brain's ready to go.
And so I've got, I've had topersonally draw this line, and
this is a commitment to my wifeand family of like, I'm not
gonna answer these.
Now, if you I you know I'mordering paint Monday morning
and you're changing the colorSunday at 8 p.m., text me.
Make sure I don't order thatpaint.
(30:24):
I totally get it.
That that type of emergencymakes sense.
But if you're calling to talkabout the different uh color
swatches for the wall and we'renot painting for three weeks,
shoot me an email.
You like I said, I come to yourjob set every morning, every
Monday, and and let's meetMonday morning.
Let's meet out at your house andwe'll talk about it.
And you know I'm coming outthere on Monday.
So let's meet then or let's talkon Monday about it.
(30:46):
But uh, you know, this is onething, and why I put it in our
CEA is because it's so importantto my family that I can
disconnect from work and have abalance where they are there and
I'm present with them.
And so I'm always on top of myphone.
I I care about my clients.
SPEAKER_01 (31:02):
What if they don't have a family and they feel like
you're throwing that in theirface?
SPEAKER_00 (31:07):
Then they need to go see a therapist.
For me to say I've got a familyand I've got to prioritize that
time is me asking you to respectmy boundaries.
It's not an I'm better than you.
It's a I'm I I have theseboundaries.
Oh, I know.
I'm just throwing it out there.
Yeah.
No, I mean there are people thatagain, this is we we I mean,
(31:28):
this let's change this podcastto why the CEA is important
podcast, because literally it'slike I don't care if you if you
disagree with what I'm saying.
We signed a piece of paper threeweeks ago that says that you're
not gonna do this.
Yeah.
And so I'm not gonna, I'm, I'm,I'm not gonna do that.
And I I've had clients, coachingclients that are this way.
And I'm like, I've had to havethe conversation of like, hey
(31:49):
man, I'm not I'm not 24 or 7,and you live on the west coast,
and that's three hours behind.
So when you think you're shootme at seven, uh it's 10 o'clock
my time.
And we can't do that.
Like I I just can't at at thosetimes.
Uh and people get it, and itmakes sense.
I mean, there's not a lot of Idon't think have you ever had
this conversation with a clientand then like, well, tough luck,
I'm texting you when I want totext.
(32:12):
Yes.
You have?
Yeah.
What'd you do about it?
I've never I've I don't thinkI've ever had someone say too
bad, I'm gonna do it anyways.
SPEAKER_01 (32:20):
Uh the uh I can't I I I can't remember the uh the
people's names, I wouldn't sayit anyway, but they uh it was a
couple and there was like uh inthe middle of a divorce type of
situation.
It was bad.
It was just bad all around.
But that guy didn't care one wayor another about time, about how
(32:46):
often.
SPEAKER_02 (32:47):
Oh yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
I was just I was just gr thatwas a very you had a project
manager running that one.
Yes.
Yeah, yeah.
SPEAKER_00 (32:55):
Yeah.
Uh uh, but again, you you stoodup to him and were like, that's
not okay, we're not doing that.
I I would have no problemtelling the client, that guy,
and being like, hey, just so youknow, like we're only doing
email communication.
Uh I'm I'm not gonna beanswering texts or phone calls
at this point because uh youknow, I've set that boundary and
you you've crossed it manytimes.
(33:15):
And I, you know, I've I feeldisrespectful to be honest, and
I don't I I feel like you're nottrying to be disrespectful, but
I feel disrespected.
So, you know, from now on, we'reonly doing emails.
And then I'd block his number onmy phone and just stick to
emails because that'ssubmittable in court and I'm
getting everything in email.
Um, but again, it's that clientthat you got to protect yourself
from.
Yeah.
That I don't care if they usethis again.
(33:37):
All right, I'm gonna say onelast one before we close out
because this was a recent one.
It's not on not on here.
Um we uh I was had a clientcoaching client that um we were
going, he was trying to exit thejob.
The client thought that that heshould not that he should get
money back for something.
(33:57):
Um and he and the the mycoaching client was like, I did
all the work.
This guy's just trying to rip meoff.
Like he wants twelve hundreddollars back, something stupid
because he didn't like the waysomething turned out, but he
signed off on it and we're fineto leave.
Well, dumb out of the situation.
The client wanted him to cut hima check back.
(34:18):
Um and so he, you know, he hecalled me, he was like, I don't
know how to handle this becauseI don't want a negative review,
I want a positive review, muchless I don't want a negative
one.
Um, I don't owe him the moneyback legally, morally.
Like, I don't owe him that cash.
Like, I did the work, I've gotphotos, he signed off on it.
He just is trying to get moneyback because he wants to hire
someone else to do a differentcolor, uh, even though it was
(34:38):
the color we talked about,whatever it was.
Um, how do I handle this withoutgetting a bad review?
And what I said was, uh, I waslike, we have this piece of
paper, and I gave uh I sent himthe paper.
It's a the lien release waiver.
Um, but in it, it not only says,hey, listen, um upon final
(34:59):
payment, I need this, this, andthis.
But long story short, in thelien release, they came to an
agreement to walk away, but hethought that the client was
gonna give him a bad review.
And so in the lien release, weput in there that this is
releasing, this releasing mefrom the project, you from, you
know, this is the final paymentthat you're paying me.
This is we're gonna end thisway, this is how much I'm owed.
(35:20):
Sign this.
Um, because he was cutting himback some money for some of the
materials that weren't spent.
So he was like, I will give himX amount of dollars, but not the
full amount that he's asking,but you got to sign this for me
to release that check.
Part of that signature said, Um,neither party can publicly
slander or um discuss this inpublic about the other party.
(35:41):
I mean, we put that in there toprotect them.
I don't know if you rememberthis.
We we've done this on a coupleclients in Atlanta, but like uh
to protect them to where if theyput a negative review online,
I've got a piece of paper signedthat ended the job that was a
lean release that says that theycan't post negatively about me
in public.
SPEAKER_01 (35:56):
We actually could have gone after that one girl
because she did.
SPEAKER_00 (35:59):
Yes.
Yeah.
And I think we emailed her andsaid she couldn't.
I think she took it down.
Oh, I think you're right.
But um, again, it was like, hey,listen, I will settle for you,
settle on this with you and cutyou some money back.
Not the whole amount that you'reasking, but the amount that's
reasonable.
But I need us to assign thatthis is our end of our
relationship and we're not gonnabe done.
(36:21):
And it's protecting bothparties, like to the client on
that lean release, it says, Hey,I've paid all my subs.
You owe me no more money afterafter this, I owe you no more
money, we're we're gonna walkaway.
Um, but in there we have itwritten to where no party can
talk publicly, negatively inpublic about the other.
Uh, and they they've asked meabout like, hey, what does this
mean?
(36:41):
It means you're not gonna giveme a negative review and I'm not
gonna trash you online.
That's all it means.
I don't, I'm not planning on it.
Are you planning on it?
unknown (36:48):
Right.
SPEAKER_00 (36:48):
It's like, oh no, no, okay, cool, we're good.
Give me my check.
We're good, we're good to go.
So, again, stuff like that towhere it's like, I'm gonna think
about how to exit this cleanly,how to not get it.
Now, you can't always have themsign that because you're asking
them to pay you money so there'snot as much.
So that's a kind of a one-offwhere you he do the money back.
Um, but again, it's like, hey,listen, I want to do this lien
release so you don't have a lienput on your house because I want
(37:11):
to prove to you that I've paidall my guys and then I'm not
gonna lean your house.
Most of the time, clients arelike, Yeah, I want to, I want
that signed.
Um, and so those that that typeof way to try and exit right,
exit the right way withoutgetting a negative review was
was helpful in that situation.
So all right, that was a lot.
I feel like I didn't realize,but this is a stressful podcast
(37:32):
for you.
SPEAKER_01 (37:33):
I was going to say this off the off the it bubble.
I could see like I'm just I'm init.
Yes.
I'm in it.
Yes, you can't talk about it.
Follow everything you're saying.
I'm like, yeah, last week.
Yeah, two weeks ago.
I hate that guy.
Yeah, I'm so ready to be donewith that project.
I'm so annoyed.
There are so many situationalfactors that change how you
(37:56):
would act on any given situationthat it's impossible.
It's impossible.
SPEAKER_00 (38:01):
Yeah.
Uh you're putting names byyou're like, oh, that's Suzanne.
Uh-huh.
Oh, and that's uh uh I'm sorryfor this one.
We won't do it again.
It's okay.
SPEAKER_01 (38:08):
There's probably a better format for it.
Maybe just me not answeringbecause I don't I'm I'm so I'll
do one of the coaching cuts withone off if we do this again.
SPEAKER_00 (38:18):
Uh you won't have to be there.
All right.
Thank you guys for listening.
If you have any questions orneed help with anything that's
similar to this, or send us anemail.
If you go to uh ProShark360.comor contractorcuts.com, you'll go
to the contact us page.
You can send emails there.
If you have a question and needhelp with something, whether
it's something similar to thisor something else, send it.
I will personally answer youback.
(38:38):
They'll it'll it will end up inmy inbox and I will send you a
response on how I would handleit.
SPEAKER_01 (38:43):
And if you want somebody to just join and pour
fuel on the fire, Clark willgive me my my email.
SPEAKER_00 (38:49):
We'll send it over to James.
And if you want someone to justlike randomly cuss out your
client, like that's I will prankphone call your client.
For$20, we will send annoyingtext to your client every
morning.
They will never know.
Well morning, Cory goes.
Uh TM.
All right.
Thanks for listening.
Uh we'll talk to you guys nextweek.
(39:11):
Bye.
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