November 17, 2025 • 47 mins
We break down the toughest leap for contractors: moving from swinging a hammer to running projects with foresight, systems, and steady cash flow. We share a practical plan for calendars, crews, invoicing, and client updates that lowers stress and raises profit.
• delayed gratification as the new mindset
• calendar as the core tool three to six weeks out
• weekly rhythm with Tuesday and Friday anchors
• energy-based time blocking and audit habits
• the revenue math of leaving field labor
• onboarding and replacing new crews with standards
• pre-construction as paid risk prevention
• pay-as-you-go invoicing tied to progress
• sub pay based on scope completion, not need
• client communication cadence that scales
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Join us January 11–13 in Nashville for the Chart the Course 2026 Planning Retreat. Sign up now and get three free coaching sessions before the event to finish 2025 strong and hit 2026 with a clear game plan. At the retreat, you’ll tackle systems, hiring, marketing, and leadership alongside ambitious contractors, leaving with a blueprint for growth. Spots are limited—visit prostruct360.com to learn more!
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
SPEAKER_01 (00:01):
Welcome to Contractor Cuts, where we cover
the good, the bad, and the uglyof growing a successful
contracting company.
SPEAKER_00 (00:14):
Welcome to Contractor Cuts.
My name is Clark Turner.
And I'm Dr.
Danger.
This is Dr.
Jane Danger joining me againthis week.
So today we are talking about atopic we've covered a handful of
times in the past, but uh it'skind of fresh on my mind.
I went out uh with a client umand was we're in the process of
(00:35):
transitioning him from in thefield.
Transitioning from him frombeing in the field and swinging
a hammer and and kind of runninghis job sites to being a
full-time project manager in hiscompany.
So they've got the work, they'vegot the guys we're trying to
grow them to the next level.
So he's transitioning out of thefield.
And so uh I've spent some timelast week with him going through
(00:57):
that, and I thought this wouldbe a really good topic to uh to
retouch because I've got somefresh eyes on it and some fresh
thoughts on it.
So today we're talking about howto get out of the truck into
project management.
Uh it's really the hardest stepof growing a contracting
company.
Out of every every stage fromstartup to you know multi-state
(01:20):
growth, this literally is thehardest transition you can do.
The hardest step is going fromswinging a hammer to being a
project manager, mainly becauseit's two different skill sets.
One is physical on top ofthings.
I'm I'm standing here on siteevery single day.
To I'm not on the job site, andI need to think through the job
(01:40):
in a totally different way.
I need to communicatedifferently, I need to have
different conversations withclients, I need to have totally
different conversations withcrews that used to be, hey, come
follow me and do what I say.
To here's your scope.
I need you to execute this stuffwithout me standing over your
shoulder.
So every aspect of the job getsmore difficult.
SPEAKER_01 (01:59):
You want to know what I think one of maybe not
talked about a lot, but one ofthe hardest transitional pieces
of that is when you're in thefield or when you're like any
any manual thing that you'redoing, you start and then at the
end of the day you can see theprogress.
(02:20):
Yes.
And that feels good.
That's the dopamine hit.
That's like, yes, like we'remaking progress.
When you're project managing andyou've got several projects, you
might there might be uhprogress, but when you walk in
as a project manager, prettymuch everything you see is
(02:40):
issues and things that need tobe resolved and problems that
are down the road.
And that never feels good.
It's like the opposite ofdopamine.
SPEAKER_00 (02:48):
It goes from dopamine to stress.
Yeah.
Yeah.
SPEAKER_01 (02:51):
So for whatever it's worth.
SPEAKER_00 (02:54):
Well, and and I think it's if I were, you know,
I've got kind of four things wewant to talk about today, but if
I were to sum it up in like onesentence, it is learn delayed
gratification.
Because like what you just saidof I've, you know, I installed
cabinetry today and the kitchenlooks so much better.
It's all coming together, and soit looks great, and I feel good.
(03:16):
I get to go home and I've gotthat dopamine hit of
accomplishment where the delayedgratification as a project
manager is three weeks down theroad when we get that final
check.
The client says, Thank you somuch, gives you a review, and
you know, we're on to the nextproject.
And I got a lot of cash in myaccount.
That's the great, that's that'sthe dopamine hit of like, cool,
we're done, on to the next.
(03:38):
This is beautiful, we did it.
But it's three weeks later forthe hard work I'm doing today.
And so I think that's that'ssome of the transition of
everything's thinking about thefuture and not today.
And I think that's kind ofnumber one on my list.
Actually, that's number.
Yeah, we'll go with number one.
So, number one on on what we'rechanging.
(03:58):
So I've got four things we needto change that you're gonna be
focusing on.
Number one, calendar.
I want your calendar to changehow it operates.
Your phone calendar, yourcomputer when you when you pull
it up.
Everything is gonna change ofhow you operate your calendar
day one in this transittransition.
Number the the biggest pointbeing a guy on site, a a hammer
(04:23):
swinger, a GC that's actuallyout there doing the framing,
doing their own work, bringingthe guys with them, they are
thinking about the problems oftoday and tomorrow.
They're thinking about what,okay, what do I got to buy for
tomorrow?
What are we doing then?
All right, cool, that's gonnahappen.
And and they're they'reliterally thinking about the
next 24 hours, and that's aboutit.
Project managers need to bethinking about three to four
(04:45):
weeks down the road.
Project managers, if they'rethinking about what's happening
today on the job site, that it'sit's too late.
They're done, they're behind,they they have, you know, the
materials aren't there, guysdon't know what they're doing,
clients are pissed off.
So the having a calendar where Ican project, look down the road,
see two, three, four, six weeksin advance is how you project
(05:07):
manage.
That's the whole that's thenumber one thing you need to be
doing is managing a project, islooking at when things are gonna
happen.
How do I tighten things up?
How do I go and order thatdumpster change out?
How do I go ahead and and andsource a crew that does the
specific type of concreterefinishing, right?
Like if I if I don't have a crewthat does that and it needs to
happen now tomorrow, what whatare we doing?
(05:28):
Right.
And so most guys, when they'rehammer swingers, they're they're
I'm gonna Google it, figure out,I'm gonna refinish that that
that concrete myself and it'llbe fine and I'll learn something
on it and uh I'll go rent themachine tomorrow.
Project managers aren't doingthat.
It's like, oh, I don't havesomeone to do that tomorrow.
Uh I guess I gotta find someone,and we just delayed a week and a
half to I get the right guy outhere.
(05:49):
Yeah.
Right.
And so living and dying by yourcalendar and thinking how far
out are you is is this projectis is your brain thinking
through this project.
SPEAKER_01 (06:00):
Um we independently take notes, and that was the
first thing that I wrote down aswell.
SPEAKER_00 (06:06):
Really?
SPEAKER_01 (06:07):
Was your time is exponentially more valuable,
it's a really hard shift.
SPEAKER_00 (06:11):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_01 (06:12):
You need to be not only time blocking, but like I
don't know how to explain this.
You need to be time blocking aswell as uh proactively time
blocking.
Yeah.
Like you do need to make sureyou ha like you're looking at
your calendar every day andmoving things where they need to
be or reallocating things wherethey need to be, but you do also
(06:35):
need to be looking one, two,three weeks down the road and
putting time blocks in foryourself where you know maybe
it's not gonna be Monday at twoo'clock that I do this thing.
Yeah.
But it's definitely gonna benext week, and I definitely need
to probably touch that twice.
So let me put it on Monday andThursday, and then once I get to
that week, I might move thosethings around.
(06:56):
Yep.
But that's you have to do both.
SPEAKER_00 (06:59):
Yeah.
Well, it it's I would love to dolike a time lapse of your
calendar, three weeks out, twoweeks out, one week out, the
week of.
Because like it gets morerefined, it gets things get
added, things move around, butthen it's like filling up.
So yeah, I'm thinking aboutthree weeks in advance, but I
know like when you come into ourprogram and we're doing
(07:20):
coaching, there is a setcalendar that we start with.
Right, Mondays, we're out in thefield hitting every single job
site.
Tuesdays are in the office doinga bunch of stuff that we've got
planned out.
Wednesday, Thursdays are freedays to do estimates, site
visits, going on, you know,whatever needs to happen.
Friday's half day in the office.
That's kind of our standardcalendar, and then we we
customize it around you, yourschedule, how you operate as a
(07:40):
company.
That being said, I want threeweeks out, my calendar be
following that.
And I'm also putting out, hey, Iknow that this is kind of a
benchmark walk on this project.
I'm gonna be there next uh intwo Thursdays from now, because
hopefully we'll be 100% donewith the cabinet treatment then,
or I hope we'll be at this spot.
And so it's on there.
But then when I'm a week out,it's like, okay, that's actually
(08:00):
gonna bump to Wednesday, and Iactually need an hour and a half
at that job site because theclient wants to meet me there.
And then come Monday when that'sthis Thursday, I'm actually
gonna move that two hours downbecause I want to stop by this
other place first.
And I'm like, and so you'rerefining it week over week.
Like if you aren't having, andlet me before I make that
statement, how often do you lookat your calendar on a daily
(08:21):
basis personally?
SPEAKER_01 (08:23):
Uh it's literally always up.
SPEAKER_00 (08:25):
Yeah.
It's it's a second tab, but souh the guy I was working with,
uh, I was like, we need to havethree different tabs open at all
times.
I want your software open, Iwant your emails open, and I
want your calendar open.
SPEAKER_01 (08:38):
I take it back.
There's only one time when Idon't have my calendar up, and
that's when I found myselfobsessing about the calendar,
and I'm hurting the task athand.
And I'll say, click, you need togo away.
Yeah.
You're always there.
I'll I'll see you in a night.
I can open you up whenever.
But for right now, you need togo away because you're a
(08:59):
problem.
SPEAKER_00 (09:00):
Yeah.
Well, and it's hard to like I'mstill trying to figure out as a
coach how to drill this intosomeone's head because they've
been Phillip said.
Philip perfect.
They've been doing their theirweekly calendar the same way for
20 years, 10 years, 20, 8 years,however long they've been it in
(09:21):
construction, and it's reallyeasy to do in their brain.
They know what they do, theykind of have a systematic way
that they think about it, andthat's just how they they
operate.
You checking your notes, is thisexactly what you're talking
about?
Your next point.
But but to switch it over and tobe, you know, thinking three
weeks in advance is not a normalthing uh to actually do.
(09:42):
Like a lot of guys, like, yeah,I know what if I asked you what
are you doing in three weeks,you're gonna be like, oh, we'll
probably be blah, blah, blah,and and can and have it some
sort of assorted map in yourbrain as to what three weeks
from now looks like.
But it's not actually thoughtthrough.
It's not, well, actually, thatshouldn't happen until the
fourth week.
And so the second week I need tobe doing this, which doesn't
(10:02):
happen unless you sit down withyour job and start building
Gantt charts and looking at thetimelines and going over
everything that you should bedoing between now and then to
prep for it.
And what's my job and what do Ineed to make sure my painter's
job is?
What?
Let me read this to you.
Okay, read read me what youwrote about this.
SPEAKER_01 (10:18):
All of mine are this is very indicative of Clark and
I.
Clark's are very like uhpractical to the point, and mine
are all just very aloof, likeemotional statements.
You're in charge of all thepieces of multiple projects.
You need uh you need what theheck?
You need the whatever.
(10:41):
You need time to sit and thinkfreely about each project.
SPEAKER_00 (10:44):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_01 (10:45):
Not just bing, bing, bing, bing.
Like you need some time to justlike sit and think about your
project.
And that might, oh, we're gonnapull this up, we're gonna pull
that up.
But uh it's a lot to juggle.
You don't want to find your failpoint for the way that you used
to do things.
Because you are so ingrained inthis is how I've been operating
(11:05):
for this long you don't see yetthe need for doing it a
different way because you'vebeen successful.
Heck, you've you're moving outof this position because of the
way that you've been operating,and that's that was your goal.
You're doing it right.
But it's not something it's nota gradual shift.
Yeah, it's an immediate shift.
(11:25):
And the only way, like, youknow, learning trial by fire,
that's it's how everybodylearns, but like you don't want
to find your fail point whileit's your company and you're
learning on the job.
Yeah.
So you need to adopt somebodyelse's until you can figure out
what is gonna fit for you.
That's right.
SPEAKER_00 (11:44):
That's right.
That's I mean, that's the wholething of coaching, is like, let
we've done it the wrong way.
This is the right way.
If I could erase the board andstart over, this is how I'd run
my calendar, this is how I'd doit.
And it took us years oftinkering and oh, this is
important.
And the more dopamine hits wegot because it was happening the
right way, the more like, ah,that's why.
(12:05):
That's why.
That I now I see the the valuein it.
And we've been doubling andtripling down on it personally
with our calendars.
One one way I help guys getstarted this way is I don't need
you to run five days a week,eight hours a day, every hour
accounted for.
Uh, what I want you to do is Iwant you on Wednesdays and
Thursdays to have time blocks ofwhat job sites you're going to,
(12:27):
when you're going to do it, whatestimates you're going to.
I want uh when I have a uh uh alead come in, we we really want
three things on the calendar.
And so I want you to have yourdesk estimate time, which is
gonna be on a Tuesday.
That's your office time.
I want your site visit time,probably Wednesday.
I'm gonna go out Wednesday, geton site, get my eyes on it.
(12:49):
And then I want a third timeblock on Thursday or Friday to
actually write the estimate andtake the time to have space or
sit down at my computer and belike, okay, let me think through
this.
Let me not just churn out somenumbers and get it out here, but
what else is needed?
What am I thinking?
What oh, I got to put a cleaningon here.
Oh, we need Hall of O, thelandscaping.
Let me ask them about that.
But I want those three timeblocks on just one lead that
(13:10):
comes in.
And so having those times set upwhere it's like, okay, I'm not
gonna, I know on Monday I'mgonna go draw my job sites.
I'm not gonna time block down tothe minute on Monday of which
job sites I'm gonna go to.
Now, in a year from now, I wantI want to see that.
I want you to progress to beingobsessive about your calendar.
But to get started, let's notstart there.
Let's start with Tuesdays, I'mgonna plan out my day as to what
(13:33):
I'm doing.
Wednesdays, Thursdays, I'm gonnaown when and where I'm gonna go
and make sure I'm not justjumping in the truck to go to a
job site.
Fridays are half days and tryingto plan it out.
But let's ease into managingthat calendar.
Um, two office days per week.
Another thing I wrote down,Tuesdays, I'm, you know, laying
out, asking yourself the threequestions.
(13:53):
What can I do to make mysoftware more accurate?
What can I do to get closer tothe finish line?
And what can I push to theclient?
Those three questions I want youto ask every single day.
You sit down at your computer onTuesdays, you pull up the first
job card and ask those threequestions.
You pull up the next job, askthose three questions, pull up
the third job.
And by the end of the day,Tuesday, you've looked at every
single job and you've thoughtthrough how do I make this more
(14:14):
accurate?
What can I do to get this jobcloser to the finish line?
And what does the client notknow that I can send them an
email about today?
Right.
So that's if you do that everyTuesday, just one day a week
right now, and then we'll get totwo days a week.
But right now, just think thosethrough those three questions
every Tuesday on every job.
You are going to be proactivelythinking through your job weeks
down the road without evenmeaning to.
(14:35):
Because you're thinking about,okay, what can I do to get this
done?
Oh, I can go ahead and orderthis stuff.
Oh, I can go ahead and make surethat we have selections picked
out by Friday so I can get allmy orders in.
So a month down the road, we'renot waiting on that light
fixture that was on back order.
Um, and then Friday, I want youto plan, adjust next week's
schedule, end of the weekupdates, emails.
Every single job gets an emailon Tuesdays and Fridays.
(14:58):
On Fridays, I'm looking at thisweek, I'm looking at next week,
and I'm adjusting my calendarfor next week.
Um, but I'm doing that live.
So that's number one, we'regoing to have a calendar
systematically planning out ourweek, looking at it every single
week, looking at it daily, um,you know, installing a calendar
app on your phone to where it'sdinging you and letting you
(15:18):
know.
And, you know, one thing thatforced me to do this is when I
open up my calendar where peoplecan make uh can reserve time on
my calendar.
Even if you're a projectmanager, like having a link in
your in your uh email, in yourname, your signature on your
emails that's like, hey, need a30-minute appointment, click
here.
That's gonna force you.
Because once you're like, oh, Igotta I got this time to do
(15:41):
this, and all of a suddensomeone books you to have a
phone call about a job site.
Okay, now I've got it, someoneelse has control of jumping on
my calendar.
I've got to plan it out.
And that's what pushed me.
That's where I started being waybetter at calendaring.
So I had a link as the as the GMof like, hey, have a prom, have
a question, click here, let'stalk about it.
And then I'd I'd be like, oh, Igot the afternoon off.
(16:02):
It's Friday at three and I'mdone.
Boom.
Someone's got to call at four.
I'm like, okay, so I got tostart blocking out my Friday
afternoons because I want to Iwant to cut out early.
Uh stuff.
Literally, it says extra rightnow.
Yeah like extra time on myFridays.
All right, so that's number one.
Calendaring, living and dying bythat.
Oh, yeah.
SPEAKER_01 (16:21):
And I've said this before, but it's something that
um I really do think there'svalue, and it's hard to remember
to do it, but retroactivelymessing with your calendar.
Like the other day, I got done acouple things and I had to
switch some things around, andthen I was about to start
another task, and then realizedI haven't really been doing
(16:44):
anything for this last hour.
I've been touching a bunch ofrandom things, I've been looking
through stuff.
So I went back and I just put ared time block in my calendar
from the hour that was justpassed that just said like puts
in around.
Because I want to be able to goback and look and say do I feel
successful this week or do Ifeel successful this month?
(17:07):
And then like whether the answeris yes or no, I can look back at
my calendar and be like, howmuch time were you spending
doing reactive things?
I'll go back and do that.
Like if something got dropped inmy lap and I I had to move
things around, I'll go back andI'll put that took an hour of my
time.
There was reactive work.
I might even put a note aboutwhat it was.
(17:27):
Arguing about an invoice.
Yes.
And then you can you canliterally audit how much of my
time am I spending doing this?
Down the road, that can help youmake hiring decisions, that can
help you make what podcasts do Ineed to listen to, what book do
I need to listen to?
You know, things like that thatcan you can you can glean from a
calendar that you've beenactually keeping updated in real
(17:50):
time of how did I spend my timethis day, how did I spend my
time this week.
SPEAKER_00 (17:54):
Well, and and if you really want to take to the next
level, this is my last likebonus nugget on how to calendar.
I always do the stuff I don'tlike to do in the morning.
If it's the you know, like forme, I hate QuickBooks.
I hate getting in it.
I'm good at it, I know it likethe back of my hand.
It's just I I don't likeaccounting.
If you I'm gonna work onQuickBooks or update something
(18:16):
or get in and assess it and runsome reports, if I don't do it
before noon, it's not happening.
Because it's just not, it's ittakes from me.
It doesn't, it's not giving,it's taking.
Right.
And so, like for me, planningout a podcast is is giving.
Like I enjoy it, right?
And so what's it giving?
It's just giving like Is itgiving research paper vibes?
(18:38):
Yeah.
But it's uh but like I enjoy it,right?
And so I I will not plan apodcast till the afternoon, and
that's like, okay, I'm gonnathink through this when I like
that's my that's my treat.
That's sweet treat.
But go ahead.
But like in the mornings is whenwhen you have the most battery,
most willpower.
And that's when it's like, okay,uh if you know, I hate writing
(19:02):
estimates.
Let's say I'm gonna write all myestimates in the morning.
And I really enjoy like uhwhatever you like to do, reward
yourself in the afternoon withthat, because it doesn't take
willpower to do that.
And by the end of the day, yourbattery is drained and you have
a lot less willpower at threethan you did at nine.
And so try and schedule aroundwhere your where your energy is,
(19:22):
where you like, if you if ittakes you a while to really get
into gear, then schedule thatharder stuff at noon.
If it's like I like to get upearly and get it knocked out,
great, because we're all dealingwith fire starting around 11,
sometimes earlier than that,oftentimes earlier.
But by 11 or 11:30 as a projectmanager, you're in firefighter
mode sometimes.
And so if I've got reallyimportant stuff to do, like an
(19:43):
estimate, I'm doing that at 6a.m.
right when I get up before myphone's ringing, before the
family gets up, before anything,I'm gonna do that and then get
that estimate knocked out, getthe kids ready for school, go
off, you know, get to theoffice, starting to get away.
Go to the bar 9:30.
SPEAKER_01 (19:59):
I mean, here's how I do it.
I wake up at five so that I canstart drinking at three.
SPEAKER_00 (20:05):
I'm gonna put that in here.
Start drinking at three.
All right.
Uh, number two, uh, we spent alot of time on calendars, but
that's good because I think it'sit's super important.
I mean it's apropos.
Uh number two, job site changes.
What's changing on the job site?
I I wrote two things on thisone.
Number one, bringing in bringingon crews, new crews needed for
doubling revenue and replacingyou.
(20:26):
So one of the big things whenwe're talking just the straight
math of turning into a projectmanager is when you are doing
the labor, you might be bringingguys with you, so you're not
getting 100% of the labor pay,but on a job site, you're making
30% profit.
You're making about 40, 30 to32% profit, you're making around
46% is for labor.
(20:46):
And that last 28%.
We all know numbers.
The 26% is is materials.
So when I'm swinging the hammer,and I might be bringing guys
with me, of the labor, maybe I'mgetting half of that money that
I've got budgeted for labor.
So I'm I'm making 30% profit,and another 30, 40% of the labor
(21:07):
is going to me as well.
And so that's 60% of everydollar coming into the company
is going into my pocket becauseI'm doing labor and project
management.
So so I do$100,000 of work and40 to 60% is cash in hand left
in the bank account.
Right?
Does that make sense?
Those numbers?
(21:28):
Or no confusing?
SPEAKER_01 (21:29):
No, but not because it's probably it's just I have a
when you're talking numbers,it's hard for me.
I was thinking the whole timeyou were saying that, you should
you should create visuals.
Because I'm sure most peoplejust listen as a podcast.
That's true.
But for when you're doingnumbers, yeah.
I feel like it'd be so nice tohave like a little visual.
Yeah.
And like AI could help.
(21:51):
What else can I do better,James?
Um, I don't know.
Listen.
Um but what else can I dobetter?
SPEAKER_00 (21:57):
Well, basically the visuals.
All right, so let me I'll let metalk to you like you're a
five-year-old.
SPEAKER_01 (23:02):
Yeah, let's do this like I'm five, like I don't
understand it.
SPEAKER_00 (23:06):
On any job, let's say you're not bringing anyone
with you, you're doing the workyourself.
Myself.
There's let's say 40% of thejob's labor.
25%'s materials, so that's 65%.
65%.
And then 35%'s profit.
Now we're at 100.
That's 100%.
When you're doing all the work,you gotta spend 25% of the
(23:28):
invoice dollars on materials,and then you get to keep the
labor and the profit.
So when you invoice$100, sevenof the dollars go into your
pocket, or$70 of the dollars gointo your pocket, and the other
$25 to 30 are going out formaterials.
And so when you're operatingthat way and you're doing the
(23:49):
labor, what only matters is Igotta do enough invoicing to
where I can cover my my expensesand make my money.
And so you can survive on if youneed to you know bring home six
thousand dollars for number six,yeah, six thousand dollars, you
can survive on invoicing tenthousand dollars a month because
(24:09):
six is going in my pocketbecause I'm doing one job at a
time and that labor's goingstraight into my pocket.
So$10,000 a month revenue, youcan live on.
When you become a projectmanager, all of the labor money
goes away.
So I now I got to live on the30% of profit.
And so when I invoice$10,000 atthat spot, I'm making three
(24:29):
grand a month and I can't pay mybills.
And so now I gotta get back anddo some labor.
Now I gotta get back to that.
And so to be able to ramp up tobe a project manager, you need
to double almost triple yourrevenue.
Because now I gotta do to dothat same$6,000 in my pocket, I
now gotta invoice$20,000 insteadof$10,000.
unknown (24:45):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_00 (24:46):
And so that that ramp up means, you know, I got
to bring on crews, and I'm alsouh paying them the money that
was going in my pocket.
So it's kind of a twofold.
I've got to manage new guys, I'mmaking less money, and I've got
to double my revenue, the amountof work I'm doing to be able to
make the same amount of money Iwas making last month.
SPEAKER_01 (25:06):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_00 (25:06):
And that's the the hard part of this transition is
chicken or the egg.
Do we do I start projectmanaging, but I don't, I'm not
making enough money yet.
I'm stressed.
Like I'm I'm like, uh is thisgonna work?
That's well, and the thing isthat I see these guys that have
come into the the the coachingprogram that struggle.
(25:28):
The ones that do are theseseasonal guys.
They ramp up for the spring.
Okay, I'm gonna be projectmanaging.
They get into it.
They don't do it the way thatwe're talking about with
calendaring and thinking throughand growing and the marketing
side.
They've got all the work.
And but they got the work.
And so they they put all the theworking on the company aside
because it's like, oh, we gotall this.
Yeah.
And then all of a sudden winterhits, and they're like, oh, I
(25:51):
got no work again.
I got I gotta go swing thehammer.
I got no options.
SPEAKER_01 (25:54):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_00 (25:54):
And it's like, well, we didn't do the work six months
ago to have the work stillcoming in now.
Right.
And so it it's it's the chickenor the egg of like, you gotta
bring the work in before you canproject manage to have enough
revenue to pay yourself.
But until you're projectmanaging and you're out of the
field, you're not churning upenough work.
And so it's like, how do I getthe work if I'm out swinging a
(26:16):
hammer?
Well, you got to step out.
And so we got to save up money.
We've got to do like the again,I'm they're probably listening
to this, but the company that Iwent to, it's like we have to
rearrange the outgoing money.
We assessed their overhead andexpenses.
They moved offices to save a lotof money to go down to a smaller
office to to work out of.
They've, you know, some some ofthe owners stepped away for for
(26:39):
the next few months because it'slike, hey, we need to cut
payroll as much as possible sowe can make this transition
work.
And we've been really targetingdoing that because it's like we
don't we need the money to haveyou out of the field.
But until that happens, uh howcan you survive for a couple
months without the paycheck?
Yeah.
Right.
And so we've been planning thatfor almost a year of how do we
(27:00):
get there, how do we do that?
And so that transition is thetoughest because I'm losing
money.
I'm I'm working double hardbecause now I'm the hardest uh
that you're gonna work with subsis the first time you're
bringing them on.
Right.
When I'm bringing on a new subto do work that's replacing me,
I'm gonna be there a lot.
I'm gonna make sure they'regood, I'm gonna check their
quality, I'm gonna start them atthe beginning of the day, I'm
(27:22):
gonna be there at the end of theday, day one, day two, day
three, day four.
I'm stopping in, I'm buildingthat trust to make sure I can
trust them.
By the time I'm with a crew forsix months, I gotta start, I
start them at the job site andI'm gonna finish them at the job
site.
And I'm probably not gonna haveto visit them in the middle
because we know each other.
They get my bar that I've set,they're hitting that.
And so it's it's a lot easiersix months down the road.
(27:43):
But these first transitionalmonths, I've got four new crews,
three new crews, two new crewsthat are coming on that I've
never worked with before.
And most likely I'm gonna haveto fire one of them and I'm
gonna have to bring on morecrews.
And so there's the headache ofcrew management on top of I
don't, I'm not making any money,on top of I got to find more
revenue.
It's just a pile of stress tomake this transition.
So knowing that, I've got tochange how I do my job sites.
(28:06):
I got to change setting the bardifferently.
And you don't know until youdon't know what you don't know.
And how to set the bar for acrew is totally different than
setting the bar for the guy thatyou brought with you.
Then you're gonna be there allday babysitting and telling him
what he needs to be doing.
So transitioning that is a wholenother conversation.
That's that's what we do in thecoaching.
(28:27):
Really, we start with like the10 steps, the the from first
contact to final invoice, goingthrough that.
But now we, you know, we getinto the subcontractor
agreements and how do we pitchthat and how do we say that and
how do we manage them?
We did a series a month or twoago about this, about how to
bring on a new sub and how tomanage them.
It's just a lot of work.
And so don't get disheartened,uh, disheartened in the first
(28:49):
month when this transition isvery difficult.
Um, know that that's part of theprocess.
Know that the first month, twomonths, three months of this
transition is a grind and you'renot getting that gratification
and you're not gonna get thatdopamine hit.
It's just shoveling crap day inand day out until you get ahead
(29:10):
of it, until you've got yourguys in place, until you're
thinking down the road, thatthat's how the transition ends
up happening.
You're three to four months downthe road.
SPEAKER_01 (29:19):
Um I have a note here.
Uh Knowing how things knowinghow things go in the field
doesn't excuse the time slip.
So like when you've got your newcrews, I think they're you just
got out of the field.
You get it.
Things change on a minute tominute basis.
Projects always take a littlebit longer than you expected.
(29:43):
Knowing this doesn't excuse thetime slip.
Don't don't accept that youshould know because you just got
out of the field, how best canyou support your guys and ensure
that they have as few hiccups aspossible.
Yeah.
And I think it is a hard,especially if it's like you've
(30:06):
been working with the crew andnow you've you're like, okay,
I'm gonna set you guys up on aproject and now I'm gonna be
moving around.
Those are your guys.
Yeah.
Right?
And so when they're struggling,you kind of feel that struggle,
you're trying to grow thebusiness, you're trying to do
better for everybody, risingtides raise all ships, kind of
thing.
(30:27):
But when something happens onsite, there's accountability
that you're gonna need to stepinto to hold those guys to.
Yep.
And you're no longer part of howhow that's actually coming
together.
You're you're needing to holdthem to a standard that you
haven't had to hold them to yet.
SPEAKER_00 (30:43):
Yes.
Yeah.
Well, uh it's it's the rules asto how daily operations happen
that are written down.
Like this is how we start jobsites, this is what I want my
job site to look like.
Like I don't have to talk abouthow I like a clean Job site when
I'm there every day because I'mthe one, hey, all right, clean
that wood over there and makesure that happens.
I'm gonna go clean this.
(31:03):
And so it just naturallyhappens.
You leave the job site and youshow up the next day because
you're project managing now, andit is a wreck because they've
been eating pizza and drinkingsoda and just having a ball.
But that being said, the mostimportant thing to implement.
First, we have a calendar.
(31:24):
The next when we're talking jobsite is pre-construction phase.
When you're swinging a hammer,you don't have a
pre-construction phase often.
It's very small.
It's okay, what do we need todo?
How do we get and start?
Hey, I need an invoice uh toget, I need that 20% down so I
can go ahead and buy somematerials and get going.
I'm gonna start with framing, soI need some wood, right?
(31:44):
If I do a pre-constructionphase, I am setting the clients'
uh expectations.
I'm going through, thinkingthrough how this project's gonna
happen.
I'm setting the crews up onsite, I'm doing pre-construction
walks with my electrician andplumber and my framer, making
sure we're all on the same page,making sure all of that doesn't
happen when you're swinging ahammer.
Guys don't spend time doingthat.
(32:06):
And and the the big transition,and this I probably said this
three times last week when I wasuh I was doing some training.
The biggest transition is thatthat profit that you're making,
they're paying you to be aproject manager.
Yeah, like that service of I'mdoing pre-construction to think
through this, you're now gettingpaid to do that.
You're a project manager gettingpaid to do that.
SPEAKER_01 (32:27):
So I have a great example of this.
Yes, please.
We're bidding out this project,we're in the due diligence
phase, the guy wants to do uhstone veneer over top his brick
house.
And a uh crew, you know, whenyou're talking, hey, give me a
bid price for doing a veneer onthis brick.
(32:51):
And you get the bid back, andyou're like, great.
The project manager piece ofthis, the due diligence piece of
this, is looking at thepictures, looking on site and
saying, what are we gonna dowith these windows?
What are we gonna do with thewindow sills?
How are we going to the windowsare already in place and now we
need to do a stone facade overtop the brick that's there?
(33:12):
Is it gonna interfere with thewindows?
Are they gonna be able toreplace those windows if we put
this in there?
SPEAKER_00 (33:18):
Are we gonna stone them in?
SPEAKER_01 (33:20):
How what are the other options we have other than
doing a stone veneer?
Can we just paint the brick oncewe get to that point?
Yeah.
So that's one of those detailsthat I think a lot of times, if
you're being honest, when youget to the point where the guy's
putting the stone on the faceand he's like, No, oh.
And then you have stone on site,you've got the crew on site,
(33:43):
you're working, and you call theclient, you're like, Hey, what
do you want to do with thewindowsills?
And they're like, What do youmean?
What do I want to do?
And then they're stressedbecause they're like, How did we
not?
How is this just now?
Whatever you normally do.
Yeah.
I don't well, this is kind of wekind of have to be creative.
You wanted to go over top thebrick.
SPEAKER_00 (34:01):
Chat GPT said there's not a good way to do
this.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Yeah.
I think that's a great exampleof like having that space to
think through it inpre-construction to where I
don't, it's not the least amountof time I can spend on it.
It's how much time, what's themost amount of time I can spend
in my pre-construction.
Not like, all right, I got 20minutes, I'm gonna figure out
who's going where when.
Yeah, I'm gonna look at theproject and I'm gonna have a cup
(34:23):
of coffee.
I'm gonna sit there, think aboutwhat's gonna go wrong.
What's gonna go wrong?
Yeah.
And thinking through that stuff.
SPEAKER_01 (34:28):
If you sit down to look at that and you're already
like, okay, I just gotta blastthrough this.
This is pretty straightforward.
This, this, this, great.
You're not gonna catch thelittle things that are gonna
bite you in the ass.
Yes.
You're just not because allyou're thinking about is the
hits.
You're like, what are the bighits?
What are the big hits?
What are the things that I knowhave happened in the past?
(34:49):
Gotta look out for this, gottalook out for this, gotta look
out for this.
You're not gonna catch thethings that are just gonna be
sneaking around the corner.
Yeah.
They're just gonna get you.
SPEAKER_00 (34:57):
And you can't be just optimistic, like, okay,
this is gonna run.
I'm gonna send this guy outthere.
Like, no, I'm gonna I gotta havea pessimistic view during
pre-construction of like, okay,what's gonna get?
I know it's something'ssomething's worth.
Which one are you is gonna screwme?
Yeah, that's legit.
All right, so number one,calendars.
Number two, job site changes,pre-construction.
(35:18):
Uh we got two more that that'llbe a little quicker.
And number three is invoicingslash labor pay changes.
When you said these ones will bea little bit quicker, are you
asking me to be quiet?
These are gonna be James's gonnaexcuse himself.
I'm gonna handle this me in thecamera.
No.
Uh number three is invoicing andlabor pay changes.
I I think one thing that'sdifferent from swinging a hammer
(35:38):
to actually being a projectmanager is I'm not on site with
my checkbook in the truck onFridays where I'm like, okay,
everyone gather around.
Let's get everyone their checks.
And I'm hand-cutting checks toeach guy.
I'm not standing there with theclient saying, Oh, okay, I guess
looks like I think we shouldstart cabinets next week.
Why don't you give me uh can Iget some uh$5,000 as a deposit?
(36:00):
I got to get these thingsordered.
Whatever it is.
Yes, yeah.
But that's how it uh oftenworks.
When you're swinging hammers,there's not a time to sit down
and think through your invoice.
Think through who's getting paidthis week, think through next
week, what am I invoicing forthat's coming up.
Do they need to be paid this?
SPEAKER_01 (36:15):
Yes.
Have they done it?
Yes.
Like that's another probablyhuge one if especially if you're
out now and these are your guys.
Yes.
Do I I know how much they need,but did they get that work done?
SPEAKER_00 (36:30):
Yeah, I I don't it's switching it from your your guy
that's next to you saying, Hey,I I gotta have two thousand by
Friday because I got I got myrent due and I need two grand
this week.
I need you to be able to earntwo grand this week.
Yeah.
Versus saying, hey, you know,we're 25% through the paint,
demo's a hundred percent, uh,I'm mark those to those
(36:53):
percentages in my software andI've got a check for you for
$1,750.
Well, I need two grand.
Well, bro, did you know thatlast week?
Like I I can only mark so muchdone.
So I'm here's your check for$17.50.
And when you steal when I givethem that two grand instead of
$17.50, now they're gonna be$250short next week.
And now they need more moneynext week because they you you
(37:14):
already gave them the money upfront.
And you're gonna be like, whatkind of baseball cards you got?
SPEAKER_01 (37:18):
Anything with value?
Anything from$76 or earlier?
SPEAKER_00 (37:22):
Yeah.
Yeah.
Well, that with the subpay anddoing it in the software and
doing it not on site to be ableto pay them what they've earned
through the work order system,through getting them out of
daily and hourly pay.
Secondly, we're switching overwith how we're invoicing
clients.
We're sitting down at thecomputer on Tuesdays and sending
them invoices.
One of the biggest transitions Ido with a lot of guys coming in
(37:43):
is the pay as you go modelversus the lump sum model.
I need 20% down, I need 40%down, and then I'll give you
this.
We're switching over to weeklyinvoices, and there's a whole
we've probably done a couplepodcasts about it already, but
why and how to do the pay as yougo model.
But switching over that to wherethere's a rhyme and reason of
(38:04):
why I'm invoicing.
Most guys that are hammerswingers are how soon can I do
that next uh we need the next40%.
Why?
Well, we're done with demo,we're done with the cabinets,
we're done with doing thesigning, whatever it is, I need
that next draw.
And they're just trying to getthe next draw where it's like,
no, there's no rhyme or reason.
You're just trying to get asmuch money extracted out of your
client as possible as soon aspossible, and that's gonna screw
(38:26):
you at the end of this job.
SPEAKER_01 (38:27):
Yeah.
So can I say one thing about thepay as you go model?
I know this is already long.
Yes.
Um the thing that I think Iappreciate most about it is it
kind of it gives you the abilityto follow the timeline that
you've set for yourself and knowthat the money is there.
Yeah.
Instead of what you're saying,all right, we gotta invoice
(38:48):
something.
What can we do?
Yeah I don't want to do thatyet, but there's money in that.
Yes.
Yep.
It it if you will if you buyinto it, you can stop that whole
game from playing out becausethat's what causes 80% of the
issues down the road is you didthat out of order.
Yep.
So you scratched the floor, youmessed up the trim, now you got
(39:08):
to come back in after the factand f and replace a couple
boards of flooring, and that cancause a whole bunch of issues.
That's like you follow yourconstruction schedule.
Stop going out of order becauseyou need the money.
SPEAKER_00 (39:21):
Aaron Ross Powell Or because clients have asked.
Like I remember back in the dayI painted a house because the
client kept, hey, when are westarting to paint?
Hey, when's paint?
Because they really wanted tosee their the colors they paint.
SPEAKER_01 (39:30):
That's a hard one because you like can do it.
SPEAKER_00 (39:31):
Yeah, like we'll go do it.
And then we ended up repaintingit because we scuffed so many of
the walls doing the we didn't uhsite finish floor.
And I'm sure he paid you extrabecause of that.
Yeah, absolutely.
But again, if if I had aconstruction schedule, I'm like,
well, we're doing paint in twoand a half weeks once these
things are done, as opposed to,yeah, we'll go ahead and get
that done for you.
So no, I think that's great.
Um, all right, number four, thelast thing communication changes
(39:57):
180 degrees.
It's totally different of howcommunication works.
You can't depend on talking withthe client on the job site.
When you are swinging a hammer,and some guys are like, you
know, I'm running four jobs, I'mon one or two of them at a time,
and the other ones I've kind ofgot some guys on, but I'm coming
out there.
You're gonna run into the clientevery time you're out there.
And so you're gonna talk tothem, you're gonna have that
conversation, and you just don'thave to think about
(40:20):
communication because it'snaturally happening when you're
on the job sites that much whenyou're swinging hammers.
When you get into projectmanagement, you are not on the
job site unless there's a reasonto be on the job site.
You're not just showing up towalk it for fun.
Mondays, we're walking every jobsite every Monday to assess the
process, the progress, whathappened last week, what are we
doing this week, what's goingon, how much should I pay the
(40:41):
guys this week?
What can I invoice for for nextweek?
That's what's happening onMondays when I'm walking it.
You might not run into yourclient on Monday because you
stopped in from 10:30 to 11:15when they were at work.
Well, then I've got five daysthat I might not be out there.
Now the client's never heardfrom me.
But when I'm out there everysingle day, I'm gonna run into
them.
They're gonna see me.
I'm I'm there till 5:30 and theyget home at five and we kind of
(41:03):
chat at the end of the daynaturally every single day.
That communication is naturallyhappening.
And so you feel like I'm runningthe job site this way and it
works.
But as soon as you startremoving yourself from being
there every single day, as soonas you have planned times that
you're executing things on sitethat I'm showing up to do this,
I need to meet the cabinet guyshere for this, the granite guys
(41:24):
I'm gonna meet over there forthis.
Those are only times I'm gonnabe on the job site.
And oftentimes the client's notthere for that window.
So having a structured way thatwe communicate again, Tuesdays
and Fridays, we send emails.
We have to send every email,every client an email on a
Tuesday, and every client on aFriday.
Tuesdays we're invoicing,Fridays we're saying what
happened this week, what'shappening next week.
(41:44):
If you do those two emails only,that's plenty of communication
with the client if you're doingit right.
If you're sending it saying thisis everything you need to know,
this is what's happening, thisis what's going wrong.
I don't like how the paintturned out.
I'm having the guys come backand do answering all the
questions before they ask them,those two emails are sufficient.
If you say, hey, here's yourinvoice, let me know if you have
(42:04):
any questions and send it off.
Yeah, I don't like the paint.
What's happening with that?
Oh, yeah, I'm getting the guysback out there.
I don't like that either.
Okay, what about the uhcabinets?
What are those showing up?
Where should I say?
Oh, yeah, I forgot to tell youabout that.
Like there will be a lot moreemails if you aren't good at
communicating.
But if you can communicateTuesdays and Fridays, send an
email, tell them you'reavailable on Mondays to walk
with them, clients are going tobe satisfied with knowing what's
(42:27):
going on.
My my my litmus test has alwaysbeen if I can call a random
client of yours and say, hey,what's happening next on this
job?
And they can say, uh James toldme that paint starting next
week.
It looks like we're almost donewith demo.
He invoiced for X, Y, and Z,which makes sense because we're
we're about to need to orderthose materials.
Uh, if the client can tell methat on a random phone call,
(42:47):
you've done your job incommunication.
If I call a client and say, Idon't know what's happening, I
don't know.
I've been James, I'm sure, willlet me know at some point.
That's a failure incommunication.
And so changing how and making afocus on communication once
you're stepping into projectmanagement is so important.
And not only with them, but alsowith subs and with crews and
(43:10):
labor, and I need photos and Ineed this and how to go today
and what's going on with that.
I don't want to be peppered withphone calls all day long from
crews.
I want one call in the morning,one call on the way home.
Hey, what's going on?
Hey, it looked good, things aregreat.
I want a text message of theroom.
Hey, paint's done.
There you go.
Hope uh tomorrow we're startingon X, Y, and Z.
Great, awesome.
Send send me that.
(43:32):
All of this with the two emailsa week, all of this, the bar is
set and the expectations arelowered or raised during your
client engagement agreement.
So all of this communication islaid out to the client.
This is what you can expect outof me.
I'm not there every day.
I'm not there five days a week,eight hours a day.
So just so you know, if youdon't see me, that doesn't mean
I wasn't there.
It means you missed me.
(43:53):
And I was there when you ran tothe store.
I was there when you were atwork, I was there when you went
and got coffee with a friend.
I might have popped in.
But this is how I get to yourjob sites.
This is when Mondays I'm thereevery Monday.
If you want to walk the job sitewith me, come and meet me on
Monday and we can, you know,shoot me a text on Friday and
I'll tell you when Monday I'mgonna be there.
Um, that sort of communicationlevel to where you're available
(44:14):
for them at for the things thatare needed, but I'm just not
gonna be showing up every singleday to chat with you.
Uh and changing that is is huge.
And you don't realize it untilyou start, until you get out and
people are don't like you asmuch.
All of a sudden, like yourreputation's going down a little
bit, and it's like, I don't,man, these people are so needy.
I just need to get back out.
And it's like, no, you you'renot meeting their expectations
(44:36):
and you're not setting the rightexpectations.
You're not doing the CEA andthen two emails a week.
If you're doing those twothings, your communication is
going to be good with them.
Yeah.
So those are my four.
Those are my top four thingsthat I think the calendar, job
site changes, um, invoicing,labor, pay changes, and then
communication changes.
If you change those four things,you're going to be off to the
(44:59):
right way.
I I I wrote some other notes.
I think we're running out oftime, but stuff like quick
estimate turnarounds.
We're doing 48 hours or less forany estimate turnaround.
If I go on site, you will havenumbers within 24 to 48 hours
every single time.
I need to start setting up thoseexpectations of myself because
when you're a project manager,you get spread real thin.
And every single person, everyclient, every sub, everyone in
(45:24):
the office, everyone at home hasa where they want to spend your
time.
And if you don't have a plan forhow you're going to spend that
time, everyone else spends yourtime for you.
When I'm working on one to twojobs at a time, swinging a
hammer, I know what I'm doingtoday.
I'm showing up that job and I'mexecuting work.
SPEAKER_01 (45:40):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_00 (45:40):
If I'm not doing that and I'm a project manager
and I don't have any estimatestoday, I guess I'll just hop in
the truck and go, oh, this guyneeds that.
I'm going to go run thesematerials out to him because he
needs more paint.
No, no, no, no.
We got to plan out that time.
We got to lay it out.
I need you to set aside time towrite those estimates.
I need you to set aside time tobuild out your calendar and
really start focusing on theback burner stuff that you don't
(46:04):
have to get to.
But if you get to it, it makesyour company really, really
efficient and profitablesomehow.
Yeah.
That's it.
Thanks for joining us this week.
And we will see you.
Also, if you one last plug, ifyou want to come to the retreat,
we're filling up.
We have a few slots left.
We're only letting a certainnumber of companies come.
(46:25):
So if you're interested incoming on the retreat, James and
I will be there.
We'll be we'll be doing a lot ofdifferent things planning wise.
I think we have a podcast comingup talking about what the what's
entailing in the retreat.
Um the retreat entails.
Does that work?
What's entailing in the retreat?
SPEAKER_01 (46:41):
No, but I think everybody communicated, you
know, communications aboutpeople understanding, and I
think people understood whatyou're trying to say.
Perfect.
SPEAKER_00 (46:48):
So, anyways, hit us up.
Go to contractorcast.com ifyou're interested in the
retreat.
You can register there.
We love to see you guys inperson in Nashville coming up in
January.
All right.
Bye.
Bye.
Welcome to Contractor Cuts, where we cover
the good, the bad, and the uglyof growing a successful
contracting company.
SPEAKER_00 (00:14):
Welcome to Contractor Cuts.
My name is Clark Turner.
And I'm Dr.
Danger.
This is Dr.
Jane Danger joining me againthis week.
So today we are talking about atopic we've covered a handful of
times in the past, but uh it'skind of fresh on my mind.
I went out uh with a client umand was we're in the process of
(00:35):
transitioning him from in thefield.
Transitioning from him frombeing in the field and swinging
a hammer and and kind of runninghis job sites to being a
full-time project manager in hiscompany.
So they've got the work, they'vegot the guys we're trying to
grow them to the next level.
So he's transitioning out of thefield.
And so uh I've spent some timelast week with him going through
(00:57):
that, and I thought this wouldbe a really good topic to uh to
retouch because I've got somefresh eyes on it and some fresh
thoughts on it.
So today we're talking about howto get out of the truck into
project management.
Uh it's really the hardest stepof growing a contracting
company.
Out of every every stage fromstartup to you know multi-state
(01:20):
growth, this literally is thehardest transition you can do.
The hardest step is going fromswinging a hammer to being a
project manager, mainly becauseit's two different skill sets.
One is physical on top ofthings.
I'm I'm standing here on siteevery single day.
To I'm not on the job site, andI need to think through the job
(01:40):
in a totally different way.
I need to communicatedifferently, I need to have
different conversations withclients, I need to have totally
different conversations withcrews that used to be, hey, come
follow me and do what I say.
To here's your scope.
I need you to execute this stuffwithout me standing over your
shoulder.
So every aspect of the job getsmore difficult.
SPEAKER_01 (01:59):
You want to know what I think one of maybe not
talked about a lot, but one ofthe hardest transitional pieces
of that is when you're in thefield or when you're like any
any manual thing that you'redoing, you start and then at the
end of the day you can see theprogress.
(02:20):
Yes.
And that feels good.
That's the dopamine hit.
That's like, yes, like we'remaking progress.
When you're project managing andyou've got several projects, you
might there might be uhprogress, but when you walk in
as a project manager, prettymuch everything you see is
(02:40):
issues and things that need tobe resolved and problems that
are down the road.
And that never feels good.
It's like the opposite ofdopamine.
SPEAKER_00 (02:48):
It goes from dopamine to stress.
Yeah.
Yeah.
SPEAKER_01 (02:51):
So for whatever it's worth.
SPEAKER_00 (02:54):
Well, and and I think it's if I were, you know,
I've got kind of four things wewant to talk about today, but if
I were to sum it up in like onesentence, it is learn delayed
gratification.
Because like what you just saidof I've, you know, I installed
cabinetry today and the kitchenlooks so much better.
It's all coming together, and soit looks great, and I feel good.
(03:16):
I get to go home and I've gotthat dopamine hit of
accomplishment where the delayedgratification as a project
manager is three weeks down theroad when we get that final
check.
The client says, Thank you somuch, gives you a review, and
you know, we're on to the nextproject.
And I got a lot of cash in myaccount.
That's the great, that's that'sthe dopamine hit of like, cool,
we're done, on to the next.
(03:38):
This is beautiful, we did it.
But it's three weeks later forthe hard work I'm doing today.
And so I think that's that'ssome of the transition of
everything's thinking about thefuture and not today.
And I think that's kind ofnumber one on my list.
Actually, that's number.
Yeah, we'll go with number one.
So, number one on on what we'rechanging.
(03:58):
So I've got four things we needto change that you're gonna be
focusing on.
Number one, calendar.
I want your calendar to changehow it operates.
Your phone calendar, yourcomputer when you when you pull
it up.
Everything is gonna change ofhow you operate your calendar
day one in this transittransition.
Number the the biggest pointbeing a guy on site, a a hammer
(04:23):
swinger, a GC that's actuallyout there doing the framing,
doing their own work, bringingthe guys with them, they are
thinking about the problems oftoday and tomorrow.
They're thinking about what,okay, what do I got to buy for
tomorrow?
What are we doing then?
All right, cool, that's gonnahappen.
And and they're they'reliterally thinking about the
next 24 hours, and that's aboutit.
Project managers need to bethinking about three to four
(04:45):
weeks down the road.
Project managers, if they'rethinking about what's happening
today on the job site, that it'sit's too late.
They're done, they're behind,they they have, you know, the
materials aren't there, guysdon't know what they're doing,
clients are pissed off.
So the having a calendar where Ican project, look down the road,
see two, three, four, six weeksin advance is how you project
(05:07):
manage.
That's the whole that's thenumber one thing you need to be
doing is managing a project, islooking at when things are gonna
happen.
How do I tighten things up?
How do I go and order thatdumpster change out?
How do I go ahead and and andsource a crew that does the
specific type of concreterefinishing, right?
Like if I if I don't have a crewthat does that and it needs to
happen now tomorrow, what whatare we doing?
(05:28):
Right.
And so most guys, when they'rehammer swingers, they're they're
I'm gonna Google it, figure out,I'm gonna refinish that that
that concrete myself and it'llbe fine and I'll learn something
on it and uh I'll go rent themachine tomorrow.
Project managers aren't doingthat.
It's like, oh, I don't havesomeone to do that tomorrow.
Uh I guess I gotta find someone,and we just delayed a week and a
half to I get the right guy outhere.
(05:49):
Yeah.
Right.
And so living and dying by yourcalendar and thinking how far
out are you is is this projectis is your brain thinking
through this project.
SPEAKER_01 (06:00):
Um we independently take notes, and that was the
first thing that I wrote down aswell.
SPEAKER_00 (06:06):
Really?
SPEAKER_01 (06:07):
Was your time is exponentially more valuable,
it's a really hard shift.
SPEAKER_00 (06:11):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_01 (06:12):
You need to be not only time blocking, but like I
don't know how to explain this.
You need to be time blocking aswell as uh proactively time
blocking.
Yeah.
Like you do need to make sureyou ha like you're looking at
your calendar every day andmoving things where they need to
be or reallocating things wherethey need to be, but you do also
(06:35):
need to be looking one, two,three weeks down the road and
putting time blocks in foryourself where you know maybe
it's not gonna be Monday at twoo'clock that I do this thing.
Yeah.
But it's definitely gonna benext week, and I definitely need
to probably touch that twice.
So let me put it on Monday andThursday, and then once I get to
that week, I might move thosethings around.
(06:56):
Yep.
But that's you have to do both.
SPEAKER_00 (06:59):
Yeah.
Well, it it's I would love to dolike a time lapse of your
calendar, three weeks out, twoweeks out, one week out, the
week of.
Because like it gets morerefined, it gets things get
added, things move around, butthen it's like filling up.
So yeah, I'm thinking aboutthree weeks in advance, but I
know like when you come into ourprogram and we're doing
(07:20):
coaching, there is a setcalendar that we start with.
Right, Mondays, we're out in thefield hitting every single job
site.
Tuesdays are in the office doinga bunch of stuff that we've got
planned out.
Wednesday, Thursdays are freedays to do estimates, site
visits, going on, you know,whatever needs to happen.
Friday's half day in the office.
That's kind of our standardcalendar, and then we we
customize it around you, yourschedule, how you operate as a
(07:40):
company.
That being said, I want threeweeks out, my calendar be
following that.
And I'm also putting out, hey, Iknow that this is kind of a
benchmark walk on this project.
I'm gonna be there next uh intwo Thursdays from now, because
hopefully we'll be 100% donewith the cabinet treatment then,
or I hope we'll be at this spot.
And so it's on there.
But then when I'm a week out,it's like, okay, that's actually
(08:00):
gonna bump to Wednesday, and Iactually need an hour and a half
at that job site because theclient wants to meet me there.
And then come Monday when that'sthis Thursday, I'm actually
gonna move that two hours downbecause I want to stop by this
other place first.
And I'm like, and so you'rerefining it week over week.
Like if you aren't having, andlet me before I make that
statement, how often do you lookat your calendar on a daily
(08:21):
basis personally?
SPEAKER_01 (08:23):
Uh it's literally always up.
SPEAKER_00 (08:25):
Yeah.
It's it's a second tab, but souh the guy I was working with,
uh, I was like, we need to havethree different tabs open at all
times.
I want your software open, Iwant your emails open, and I
want your calendar open.
SPEAKER_01 (08:38):
I take it back.
There's only one time when Idon't have my calendar up, and
that's when I found myselfobsessing about the calendar,
and I'm hurting the task athand.
And I'll say, click, you need togo away.
Yeah.
You're always there.
I'll I'll see you in a night.
I can open you up whenever.
But for right now, you need togo away because you're a
(08:59):
problem.
SPEAKER_00 (09:00):
Yeah.
Well, and it's hard to like I'mstill trying to figure out as a
coach how to drill this intosomeone's head because they've
been Phillip said.
Philip perfect.
They've been doing their theirweekly calendar the same way for
20 years, 10 years, 20, 8 years,however long they've been it in
(09:21):
construction, and it's reallyeasy to do in their brain.
They know what they do, theykind of have a systematic way
that they think about it, andthat's just how they they
operate.
You checking your notes, is thisexactly what you're talking
about?
Your next point.
But but to switch it over and tobe, you know, thinking three
weeks in advance is not a normalthing uh to actually do.
(09:42):
Like a lot of guys, like, yeah,I know what if I asked you what
are you doing in three weeks,you're gonna be like, oh, we'll
probably be blah, blah, blah,and and can and have it some
sort of assorted map in yourbrain as to what three weeks
from now looks like.
But it's not actually thoughtthrough.
It's not, well, actually, thatshouldn't happen until the
fourth week.
And so the second week I need tobe doing this, which doesn't
(10:02):
happen unless you sit down withyour job and start building
Gantt charts and looking at thetimelines and going over
everything that you should bedoing between now and then to
prep for it.
And what's my job and what do Ineed to make sure my painter's
job is?
What?
Let me read this to you.
Okay, read read me what youwrote about this.
SPEAKER_01 (10:18):
All of mine are this is very indicative of Clark and
I.
Clark's are very like uhpractical to the point, and mine
are all just very aloof, likeemotional statements.
You're in charge of all thepieces of multiple projects.
You need uh you need what theheck?
You need the whatever.
(10:41):
You need time to sit and thinkfreely about each project.
SPEAKER_00 (10:44):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_01 (10:45):
Not just bing, bing, bing, bing.
Like you need some time to justlike sit and think about your
project.
And that might, oh, we're gonnapull this up, we're gonna pull
that up.
But uh it's a lot to juggle.
You don't want to find your failpoint for the way that you used
to do things.
Because you are so ingrained inthis is how I've been operating
(11:05):
for this long you don't see yetthe need for doing it a
different way because you'vebeen successful.
Heck, you've you're moving outof this position because of the
way that you've been operating,and that's that was your goal.
You're doing it right.
But it's not something it's nota gradual shift.
Yeah, it's an immediate shift.
(11:25):
And the only way, like, youknow, learning trial by fire,
that's it's how everybodylearns, but like you don't want
to find your fail point whileit's your company and you're
learning on the job.
Yeah.
So you need to adopt somebodyelse's until you can figure out
what is gonna fit for you.
That's right.
SPEAKER_00 (11:44):
That's right.
That's I mean, that's the wholething of coaching, is like, let
we've done it the wrong way.
This is the right way.
If I could erase the board andstart over, this is how I'd run
my calendar, this is how I'd doit.
And it took us years oftinkering and oh, this is
important.
And the more dopamine hits wegot because it was happening the
right way, the more like, ah,that's why.
(12:05):
That's why.
That I now I see the the valuein it.
And we've been doubling andtripling down on it personally
with our calendars.
One one way I help guys getstarted this way is I don't need
you to run five days a week,eight hours a day, every hour
accounted for.
Uh, what I want you to do is Iwant you on Wednesdays and
Thursdays to have time blocks ofwhat job sites you're going to,
(12:27):
when you're going to do it, whatestimates you're going to.
I want uh when I have a uh uh alead come in, we we really want
three things on the calendar.
And so I want you to have yourdesk estimate time, which is
gonna be on a Tuesday.
That's your office time.
I want your site visit time,probably Wednesday.
I'm gonna go out Wednesday, geton site, get my eyes on it.
(12:49):
And then I want a third timeblock on Thursday or Friday to
actually write the estimate andtake the time to have space or
sit down at my computer and belike, okay, let me think through
this.
Let me not just churn out somenumbers and get it out here, but
what else is needed?
What am I thinking?
What oh, I got to put a cleaningon here.
Oh, we need Hall of O, thelandscaping.
Let me ask them about that.
But I want those three timeblocks on just one lead that
(13:10):
comes in.
And so having those times set upwhere it's like, okay, I'm not
gonna, I know on Monday I'mgonna go draw my job sites.
I'm not gonna time block down tothe minute on Monday of which
job sites I'm gonna go to.
Now, in a year from now, I wantI want to see that.
I want you to progress to beingobsessive about your calendar.
But to get started, let's notstart there.
Let's start with Tuesdays, I'mgonna plan out my day as to what
(13:33):
I'm doing.
Wednesdays, Thursdays, I'm gonnaown when and where I'm gonna go
and make sure I'm not justjumping in the truck to go to a
job site.
Fridays are half days and tryingto plan it out.
But let's ease into managingthat calendar.
Um, two office days per week.
Another thing I wrote down,Tuesdays, I'm, you know, laying
out, asking yourself the threequestions.
(13:53):
What can I do to make mysoftware more accurate?
What can I do to get closer tothe finish line?
And what can I push to theclient?
Those three questions I want youto ask every single day.
You sit down at your computer onTuesdays, you pull up the first
job card and ask those threequestions.
You pull up the next job, askthose three questions, pull up
the third job.
And by the end of the day,Tuesday, you've looked at every
single job and you've thoughtthrough how do I make this more
(14:14):
accurate?
What can I do to get this jobcloser to the finish line?
And what does the client notknow that I can send them an
email about today?
Right.
So that's if you do that everyTuesday, just one day a week
right now, and then we'll get totwo days a week.
But right now, just think thosethrough those three questions
every Tuesday on every job.
You are going to be proactivelythinking through your job weeks
down the road without evenmeaning to.
(14:35):
Because you're thinking about,okay, what can I do to get this
done?
Oh, I can go ahead and orderthis stuff.
Oh, I can go ahead and make surethat we have selections picked
out by Friday so I can get allmy orders in.
So a month down the road, we'renot waiting on that light
fixture that was on back order.
Um, and then Friday, I want youto plan, adjust next week's
schedule, end of the weekupdates, emails.
Every single job gets an emailon Tuesdays and Fridays.
(14:58):
On Fridays, I'm looking at thisweek, I'm looking at next week,
and I'm adjusting my calendarfor next week.
Um, but I'm doing that live.
So that's number one, we'regoing to have a calendar
systematically planning out ourweek, looking at it every single
week, looking at it daily, um,you know, installing a calendar
app on your phone to where it'sdinging you and letting you
(15:18):
know.
And, you know, one thing thatforced me to do this is when I
open up my calendar where peoplecan make uh can reserve time on
my calendar.
Even if you're a projectmanager, like having a link in
your in your uh email, in yourname, your signature on your
emails that's like, hey, need a30-minute appointment, click
here.
That's gonna force you.
Because once you're like, oh, Igotta I got this time to do
(15:41):
this, and all of a suddensomeone books you to have a
phone call about a job site.
Okay, now I've got it, someoneelse has control of jumping on
my calendar.
I've got to plan it out.
And that's what pushed me.
That's where I started being waybetter at calendaring.
So I had a link as the as the GMof like, hey, have a prom, have
a question, click here, let'stalk about it.
And then I'd I'd be like, oh, Igot the afternoon off.
(16:02):
It's Friday at three and I'mdone.
Boom.
Someone's got to call at four.
I'm like, okay, so I got tostart blocking out my Friday
afternoons because I want to Iwant to cut out early.
Uh stuff.
Literally, it says extra rightnow.
Yeah like extra time on myFridays.
All right, so that's number one.
Calendaring, living and dying bythat.
Oh, yeah.
SPEAKER_01 (16:21):
And I've said this before, but it's something that
um I really do think there'svalue, and it's hard to remember
to do it, but retroactivelymessing with your calendar.
Like the other day, I got done acouple things and I had to
switch some things around, andthen I was about to start
another task, and then realizedI haven't really been doing
(16:44):
anything for this last hour.
I've been touching a bunch ofrandom things, I've been looking
through stuff.
So I went back and I just put ared time block in my calendar
from the hour that was justpassed that just said like puts
in around.
Because I want to be able to goback and look and say do I feel
successful this week or do Ifeel successful this month?
(17:07):
And then like whether the answeris yes or no, I can look back at
my calendar and be like, howmuch time were you spending
doing reactive things?
I'll go back and do that.
Like if something got dropped inmy lap and I I had to move
things around, I'll go back andI'll put that took an hour of my
time.
There was reactive work.
I might even put a note aboutwhat it was.
(17:27):
Arguing about an invoice.
Yes.
And then you can you canliterally audit how much of my
time am I spending doing this?
Down the road, that can help youmake hiring decisions, that can
help you make what podcasts do Ineed to listen to, what book do
I need to listen to?
You know, things like that thatcan you can you can glean from a
calendar that you've beenactually keeping updated in real
(17:50):
time of how did I spend my timethis day, how did I spend my
time this week.
SPEAKER_00 (17:54):
Well, and and if you really want to take to the next
level, this is my last likebonus nugget on how to calendar.
I always do the stuff I don'tlike to do in the morning.
If it's the you know, like forme, I hate QuickBooks.
I hate getting in it.
I'm good at it, I know it likethe back of my hand.
It's just I I don't likeaccounting.
If you I'm gonna work onQuickBooks or update something
(18:16):
or get in and assess it and runsome reports, if I don't do it
before noon, it's not happening.
Because it's just not, it's ittakes from me.
It doesn't, it's not giving,it's taking.
Right.
And so, like for me, planningout a podcast is is giving.
Like I enjoy it, right?
And so what's it giving?
It's just giving like Is itgiving research paper vibes?
(18:38):
Yeah.
But it's uh but like I enjoy it,right?
And so I I will not plan apodcast till the afternoon, and
that's like, okay, I'm gonnathink through this when I like
that's my that's my treat.
That's sweet treat.
But go ahead.
But like in the mornings is whenwhen you have the most battery,
most willpower.
And that's when it's like, okay,uh if you know, I hate writing
(19:02):
estimates.
Let's say I'm gonna write all myestimates in the morning.
And I really enjoy like uhwhatever you like to do, reward
yourself in the afternoon withthat, because it doesn't take
willpower to do that.
And by the end of the day, yourbattery is drained and you have
a lot less willpower at threethan you did at nine.
And so try and schedule aroundwhere your where your energy is,
(19:22):
where you like, if you if ittakes you a while to really get
into gear, then schedule thatharder stuff at noon.
If it's like I like to get upearly and get it knocked out,
great, because we're all dealingwith fire starting around 11,
sometimes earlier than that,oftentimes earlier.
But by 11 or 11:30 as a projectmanager, you're in firefighter
mode sometimes.
And so if I've got reallyimportant stuff to do, like an
(19:43):
estimate, I'm doing that at 6a.m.
right when I get up before myphone's ringing, before the
family gets up, before anything,I'm gonna do that and then get
that estimate knocked out, getthe kids ready for school, go
off, you know, get to theoffice, starting to get away.
Go to the bar 9:30.
SPEAKER_01 (19:59):
I mean, here's how I do it.
I wake up at five so that I canstart drinking at three.
SPEAKER_00 (20:05):
I'm gonna put that in here.
Start drinking at three.
All right.
Uh, number two, uh, we spent alot of time on calendars, but
that's good because I think it'sit's super important.
I mean it's apropos.
Uh number two, job site changes.
What's changing on the job site?
I I wrote two things on thisone.
Number one, bringing in bringingon crews, new crews needed for
doubling revenue and replacingyou.
(20:26):
So one of the big things whenwe're talking just the straight
math of turning into a projectmanager is when you are doing
the labor, you might be bringingguys with you, so you're not
getting 100% of the labor pay,but on a job site, you're making
30% profit.
You're making about 40, 30 to32% profit, you're making around
46% is for labor.
(20:46):
And that last 28%.
We all know numbers.
The 26% is is materials.
So when I'm swinging the hammer,and I might be bringing guys
with me, of the labor, maybe I'mgetting half of that money that
I've got budgeted for labor.
So I'm I'm making 30% profit,and another 30, 40% of the labor
(21:07):
is going to me as well.
And so that's 60% of everydollar coming into the company
is going into my pocket becauseI'm doing labor and project
management.
So so I do$100,000 of work and40 to 60% is cash in hand left
in the bank account.
Right?
Does that make sense?
Those numbers?
(21:28):
Or no confusing?
SPEAKER_01 (21:29):
No, but not because it's probably it's just I have a
when you're talking numbers,it's hard for me.
I was thinking the whole timeyou were saying that, you should
you should create visuals.
Because I'm sure most peoplejust listen as a podcast.
That's true.
But for when you're doingnumbers, yeah.
I feel like it'd be so nice tohave like a little visual.
Yeah.
And like AI could help.
(21:51):
What else can I do better,James?
Um, I don't know.
Listen.
Um but what else can I dobetter?
SPEAKER_00 (21:57):
Well, basically the visuals.
All right, so let me I'll let metalk to you like you're a
five-year-old.
SPEAKER_01 (23:02):
Yeah, let's do this like I'm five, like I don't
understand it.
SPEAKER_00 (23:06):
On any job, let's say you're not bringing anyone
with you, you're doing the workyourself.
Myself.
There's let's say 40% of thejob's labor.
25%'s materials, so that's 65%.
65%.
And then 35%'s profit.
Now we're at 100.
That's 100%.
When you're doing all the work,you gotta spend 25% of the
(23:28):
invoice dollars on materials,and then you get to keep the
labor and the profit.
So when you invoice$100, sevenof the dollars go into your
pocket, or$70 of the dollars gointo your pocket, and the other
$25 to 30 are going out formaterials.
And so when you're operatingthat way and you're doing the
(23:49):
labor, what only matters is Igotta do enough invoicing to
where I can cover my my expensesand make my money.
And so you can survive on if youneed to you know bring home six
thousand dollars for number six,yeah, six thousand dollars, you
can survive on invoicing tenthousand dollars a month because
(24:09):
six is going in my pocketbecause I'm doing one job at a
time and that labor's goingstraight into my pocket.
So$10,000 a month revenue, youcan live on.
When you become a projectmanager, all of the labor money
goes away.
So I now I got to live on the30% of profit.
And so when I invoice$10,000 atthat spot, I'm making three
(24:29):
grand a month and I can't pay mybills.
And so now I gotta get back anddo some labor.
Now I gotta get back to that.
And so to be able to ramp up tobe a project manager, you need
to double almost triple yourrevenue.
Because now I gotta do to dothat same$6,000 in my pocket, I
now gotta invoice$20,000 insteadof$10,000.
unknown (24:45):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_00 (24:46):
And so that that ramp up means, you know, I got
to bring on crews, and I'm alsouh paying them the money that
was going in my pocket.
So it's kind of a twofold.
I've got to manage new guys, I'mmaking less money, and I've got
to double my revenue, the amountof work I'm doing to be able to
make the same amount of money Iwas making last month.
SPEAKER_01 (25:06):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_00 (25:06):
And that's the the hard part of this transition is
chicken or the egg.
Do we do I start projectmanaging, but I don't, I'm not
making enough money yet.
I'm stressed.
Like I'm I'm like, uh is thisgonna work?
That's well, and the thing isthat I see these guys that have
come into the the the coachingprogram that struggle.
(25:28):
The ones that do are theseseasonal guys.
They ramp up for the spring.
Okay, I'm gonna be projectmanaging.
They get into it.
They don't do it the way thatwe're talking about with
calendaring and thinking throughand growing and the marketing
side.
They've got all the work.
And but they got the work.
And so they they put all the theworking on the company aside
because it's like, oh, we gotall this.
Yeah.
And then all of a sudden winterhits, and they're like, oh, I
(25:51):
got no work again.
I got I gotta go swing thehammer.
I got no options.
SPEAKER_01 (25:54):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_00 (25:54):
And it's like, well, we didn't do the work six months
ago to have the work stillcoming in now.
Right.
And so it it's it's the chickenor the egg of like, you gotta
bring the work in before you canproject manage to have enough
revenue to pay yourself.
But until you're projectmanaging and you're out of the
field, you're not churning upenough work.
And so it's like, how do I getthe work if I'm out swinging a
(26:16):
hammer?
Well, you got to step out.
And so we got to save up money.
We've got to do like the again,I'm they're probably listening
to this, but the company that Iwent to, it's like we have to
rearrange the outgoing money.
We assessed their overhead andexpenses.
They moved offices to save a lotof money to go down to a smaller
office to to work out of.
They've, you know, some some ofthe owners stepped away for for
(26:39):
the next few months because it'slike, hey, we need to cut
payroll as much as possible sowe can make this transition
work.
And we've been really targetingdoing that because it's like we
don't we need the money to haveyou out of the field.
But until that happens, uh howcan you survive for a couple
months without the paycheck?
Yeah.
Right.
And so we've been planning thatfor almost a year of how do we
(27:00):
get there, how do we do that?
And so that transition is thetoughest because I'm losing
money.
I'm I'm working double hardbecause now I'm the hardest uh
that you're gonna work with subsis the first time you're
bringing them on.
Right.
When I'm bringing on a new subto do work that's replacing me,
I'm gonna be there a lot.
I'm gonna make sure they'regood, I'm gonna check their
quality, I'm gonna start them atthe beginning of the day, I'm
(27:22):
gonna be there at the end of theday, day one, day two, day
three, day four.
I'm stopping in, I'm buildingthat trust to make sure I can
trust them.
By the time I'm with a crew forsix months, I gotta start, I
start them at the job site andI'm gonna finish them at the job
site.
And I'm probably not gonna haveto visit them in the middle
because we know each other.
They get my bar that I've set,they're hitting that.
And so it's it's a lot easiersix months down the road.
(27:43):
But these first transitionalmonths, I've got four new crews,
three new crews, two new crewsthat are coming on that I've
never worked with before.
And most likely I'm gonna haveto fire one of them and I'm
gonna have to bring on morecrews.
And so there's the headache ofcrew management on top of I
don't, I'm not making any money,on top of I got to find more
revenue.
It's just a pile of stress tomake this transition.
So knowing that, I've got tochange how I do my job sites.
(28:06):
I got to change setting the bardifferently.
And you don't know until youdon't know what you don't know.
And how to set the bar for acrew is totally different than
setting the bar for the guy thatyou brought with you.
Then you're gonna be there allday babysitting and telling him
what he needs to be doing.
So transitioning that is a wholenother conversation.
That's that's what we do in thecoaching.
(28:27):
Really, we start with like the10 steps, the the from first
contact to final invoice, goingthrough that.
But now we, you know, we getinto the subcontractor
agreements and how do we pitchthat and how do we say that and
how do we manage them?
We did a series a month or twoago about this, about how to
bring on a new sub and how tomanage them.
It's just a lot of work.
And so don't get disheartened,uh, disheartened in the first
(28:49):
month when this transition isvery difficult.
Um, know that that's part of theprocess.
Know that the first month, twomonths, three months of this
transition is a grind and you'renot getting that gratification
and you're not gonna get thatdopamine hit.
It's just shoveling crap day inand day out until you get ahead
(29:10):
of it, until you've got yourguys in place, until you're
thinking down the road, thatthat's how the transition ends
up happening.
You're three to four months downthe road.
SPEAKER_01 (29:19):
Um I have a note here.
Uh Knowing how things knowinghow things go in the field
doesn't excuse the time slip.
So like when you've got your newcrews, I think they're you just
got out of the field.
You get it.
Things change on a minute tominute basis.
Projects always take a littlebit longer than you expected.
(29:43):
Knowing this doesn't excuse thetime slip.
Don't don't accept that youshould know because you just got
out of the field, how best canyou support your guys and ensure
that they have as few hiccups aspossible.
Yeah.
And I think it is a hard,especially if it's like you've
(30:06):
been working with the crew andnow you've you're like, okay,
I'm gonna set you guys up on aproject and now I'm gonna be
moving around.
Those are your guys.
Yeah.
Right?
And so when they're struggling,you kind of feel that struggle,
you're trying to grow thebusiness, you're trying to do
better for everybody, risingtides raise all ships, kind of
thing.
(30:27):
But when something happens onsite, there's accountability
that you're gonna need to stepinto to hold those guys to.
Yep.
And you're no longer part of howhow that's actually coming
together.
You're you're needing to holdthem to a standard that you
haven't had to hold them to yet.
SPEAKER_00 (30:43):
Yes.
Yeah.
Well, uh it's it's the rules asto how daily operations happen
that are written down.
Like this is how we start jobsites, this is what I want my
job site to look like.
Like I don't have to talk abouthow I like a clean Job site when
I'm there every day because I'mthe one, hey, all right, clean
that wood over there and makesure that happens.
I'm gonna go clean this.
(31:03):
And so it just naturallyhappens.
You leave the job site and youshow up the next day because
you're project managing now, andit is a wreck because they've
been eating pizza and drinkingsoda and just having a ball.
But that being said, the mostimportant thing to implement.
First, we have a calendar.
(31:24):
The next when we're talking jobsite is pre-construction phase.
When you're swinging a hammer,you don't have a
pre-construction phase often.
It's very small.
It's okay, what do we need todo?
How do we get and start?
Hey, I need an invoice uh toget, I need that 20% down so I
can go ahead and buy somematerials and get going.
I'm gonna start with framing, soI need some wood, right?
(31:44):
If I do a pre-constructionphase, I am setting the clients'
uh expectations.
I'm going through, thinkingthrough how this project's gonna
happen.
I'm setting the crews up onsite, I'm doing pre-construction
walks with my electrician andplumber and my framer, making
sure we're all on the same page,making sure all of that doesn't
happen when you're swinging ahammer.
Guys don't spend time doingthat.
(32:06):
And and the the big transition,and this I probably said this
three times last week when I wasuh I was doing some training.
The biggest transition is thatthat profit that you're making,
they're paying you to be aproject manager.
Yeah, like that service of I'mdoing pre-construction to think
through this, you're now gettingpaid to do that.
You're a project manager gettingpaid to do that.
SPEAKER_01 (32:27):
So I have a great example of this.
Yes, please.
We're bidding out this project,we're in the due diligence
phase, the guy wants to do uhstone veneer over top his brick
house.
And a uh crew, you know, whenyou're talking, hey, give me a
bid price for doing a veneer onthis brick.
(32:51):
And you get the bid back, andyou're like, great.
The project manager piece ofthis, the due diligence piece of
this, is looking at thepictures, looking on site and
saying, what are we gonna dowith these windows?
What are we gonna do with thewindow sills?
How are we going to the windowsare already in place and now we
need to do a stone facade overtop the brick that's there?
(33:12):
Is it gonna interfere with thewindows?
Are they gonna be able toreplace those windows if we put
this in there?
SPEAKER_00 (33:18):
Are we gonna stone them in?
SPEAKER_01 (33:20):
How what are the other options we have other than
doing a stone veneer?
Can we just paint the brick oncewe get to that point?
Yeah.
So that's one of those detailsthat I think a lot of times, if
you're being honest, when youget to the point where the guy's
putting the stone on the faceand he's like, No, oh.
And then you have stone on site,you've got the crew on site,
(33:43):
you're working, and you call theclient, you're like, Hey, what
do you want to do with thewindowsills?
And they're like, What do youmean?
What do I want to do?
And then they're stressedbecause they're like, How did we
not?
How is this just now?
Whatever you normally do.
Yeah.
I don't well, this is kind of wekind of have to be creative.
You wanted to go over top thebrick.
SPEAKER_00 (34:01):
Chat GPT said there's not a good way to do
this.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Yeah.
I think that's a great exampleof like having that space to
think through it inpre-construction to where I
don't, it's not the least amountof time I can spend on it.
It's how much time, what's themost amount of time I can spend
in my pre-construction.
Not like, all right, I got 20minutes, I'm gonna figure out
who's going where when.
Yeah, I'm gonna look at theproject and I'm gonna have a cup
(34:23):
of coffee.
I'm gonna sit there, think aboutwhat's gonna go wrong.
What's gonna go wrong?
Yeah.
And thinking through that stuff.
SPEAKER_01 (34:28):
If you sit down to look at that and you're already
like, okay, I just gotta blastthrough this.
This is pretty straightforward.
This, this, this, great.
You're not gonna catch thelittle things that are gonna
bite you in the ass.
Yes.
You're just not because allyou're thinking about is the
hits.
You're like, what are the bighits?
What are the big hits?
What are the things that I knowhave happened in the past?
(34:49):
Gotta look out for this, gottalook out for this, gotta look
out for this.
You're not gonna catch thethings that are just gonna be
sneaking around the corner.
Yeah.
They're just gonna get you.
SPEAKER_00 (34:57):
And you can't be just optimistic, like, okay,
this is gonna run.
I'm gonna send this guy outthere.
Like, no, I'm gonna I gotta havea pessimistic view during
pre-construction of like, okay,what's gonna get?
I know it's something'ssomething's worth.
Which one are you is gonna screwme?
Yeah, that's legit.
All right, so number one,calendars.
Number two, job site changes,pre-construction.
(35:18):
Uh we got two more that that'llbe a little quicker.
And number three is invoicingslash labor pay changes.
When you said these ones will bea little bit quicker, are you
asking me to be quiet?
These are gonna be James's gonnaexcuse himself.
I'm gonna handle this me in thecamera.
No.
Uh number three is invoicing andlabor pay changes.
I I think one thing that'sdifferent from swinging a hammer
(35:38):
to actually being a projectmanager is I'm not on site with
my checkbook in the truck onFridays where I'm like, okay,
everyone gather around.
Let's get everyone their checks.
And I'm hand-cutting checks toeach guy.
I'm not standing there with theclient saying, Oh, okay, I guess
looks like I think we shouldstart cabinets next week.
Why don't you give me uh can Iget some uh$5,000 as a deposit?
(36:00):
I got to get these thingsordered.
Whatever it is.
Yes, yeah.
But that's how it uh oftenworks.
When you're swinging hammers,there's not a time to sit down
and think through your invoice.
Think through who's getting paidthis week, think through next
week, what am I invoicing forthat's coming up.
Do they need to be paid this?
SPEAKER_01 (36:15):
Yes.
Have they done it?
Yes.
Like that's another probablyhuge one if especially if you're
out now and these are your guys.
Yes.
Do I I know how much they need,but did they get that work done?
SPEAKER_00 (36:30):
Yeah, I I don't it's switching it from your your guy
that's next to you saying, Hey,I I gotta have two thousand by
Friday because I got I got myrent due and I need two grand
this week.
I need you to be able to earntwo grand this week.
Yeah.
Versus saying, hey, you know,we're 25% through the paint,
demo's a hundred percent, uh,I'm mark those to those
(36:53):
percentages in my software andI've got a check for you for
$1,750.
Well, I need two grand.
Well, bro, did you know thatlast week?
Like I I can only mark so muchdone.
So I'm here's your check for$17.50.
And when you steal when I givethem that two grand instead of
$17.50, now they're gonna be$250short next week.
And now they need more moneynext week because they you you
(37:14):
already gave them the money upfront.
And you're gonna be like, whatkind of baseball cards you got?
SPEAKER_01 (37:18):
Anything with value?
Anything from$76 or earlier?
SPEAKER_00 (37:22):
Yeah.
Yeah.
Well, that with the subpay anddoing it in the software and
doing it not on site to be ableto pay them what they've earned
through the work order system,through getting them out of
daily and hourly pay.
Secondly, we're switching overwith how we're invoicing
clients.
We're sitting down at thecomputer on Tuesdays and sending
them invoices.
One of the biggest transitions Ido with a lot of guys coming in
(37:43):
is the pay as you go modelversus the lump sum model.
I need 20% down, I need 40%down, and then I'll give you
this.
We're switching over to weeklyinvoices, and there's a whole
we've probably done a couplepodcasts about it already, but
why and how to do the pay as yougo model.
But switching over that to wherethere's a rhyme and reason of
(38:04):
why I'm invoicing.
Most guys that are hammerswingers are how soon can I do
that next uh we need the next40%.
Why?
Well, we're done with demo,we're done with the cabinets,
we're done with doing thesigning, whatever it is, I need
that next draw.
And they're just trying to getthe next draw where it's like,
no, there's no rhyme or reason.
You're just trying to get asmuch money extracted out of your
client as possible as soon aspossible, and that's gonna screw
(38:26):
you at the end of this job.
SPEAKER_01 (38:27):
Yeah.
So can I say one thing about thepay as you go model?
I know this is already long.
Yes.
Um the thing that I think Iappreciate most about it is it
kind of it gives you the abilityto follow the timeline that
you've set for yourself and knowthat the money is there.
Yeah.
Instead of what you're saying,all right, we gotta invoice
(38:48):
something.
What can we do?
Yeah I don't want to do thatyet, but there's money in that.
Yes.
Yep.
It it if you will if you buyinto it, you can stop that whole
game from playing out becausethat's what causes 80% of the
issues down the road is you didthat out of order.
Yep.
So you scratched the floor, youmessed up the trim, now you got
(39:08):
to come back in after the factand f and replace a couple
boards of flooring, and that cancause a whole bunch of issues.
That's like you follow yourconstruction schedule.
Stop going out of order becauseyou need the money.
SPEAKER_00 (39:21):
Aaron Ross Powell Or because clients have asked.
Like I remember back in the dayI painted a house because the
client kept, hey, when are westarting to paint?
Hey, when's paint?
Because they really wanted tosee their the colors they paint.
SPEAKER_01 (39:30):
That's a hard one because you like can do it.
SPEAKER_00 (39:31):
Yeah, like we'll go do it.
And then we ended up repaintingit because we scuffed so many of
the walls doing the we didn't uhsite finish floor.
And I'm sure he paid you extrabecause of that.
Yeah, absolutely.
But again, if if I had aconstruction schedule, I'm like,
well, we're doing paint in twoand a half weeks once these
things are done, as opposed to,yeah, we'll go ahead and get
that done for you.
So no, I think that's great.
Um, all right, number four, thelast thing communication changes
(39:57):
180 degrees.
It's totally different of howcommunication works.
You can't depend on talking withthe client on the job site.
When you are swinging a hammer,and some guys are like, you
know, I'm running four jobs, I'mon one or two of them at a time,
and the other ones I've kind ofgot some guys on, but I'm coming
out there.
You're gonna run into the clientevery time you're out there.
And so you're gonna talk tothem, you're gonna have that
conversation, and you just don'thave to think about
(40:20):
communication because it'snaturally happening when you're
on the job sites that much whenyou're swinging hammers.
When you get into projectmanagement, you are not on the
job site unless there's a reasonto be on the job site.
You're not just showing up towalk it for fun.
Mondays, we're walking every jobsite every Monday to assess the
process, the progress, whathappened last week, what are we
doing this week, what's goingon, how much should I pay the
(40:41):
guys this week?
What can I invoice for for nextweek?
That's what's happening onMondays when I'm walking it.
You might not run into yourclient on Monday because you
stopped in from 10:30 to 11:15when they were at work.
Well, then I've got five daysthat I might not be out there.
Now the client's never heardfrom me.
But when I'm out there everysingle day, I'm gonna run into
them.
They're gonna see me.
I'm I'm there till 5:30 and theyget home at five and we kind of
(41:03):
chat at the end of the daynaturally every single day.
That communication is naturallyhappening.
And so you feel like I'm runningthe job site this way and it
works.
But as soon as you startremoving yourself from being
there every single day, as soonas you have planned times that
you're executing things on sitethat I'm showing up to do this,
I need to meet the cabinet guyshere for this, the granite guys
(41:24):
I'm gonna meet over there forthis.
Those are only times I'm gonnabe on the job site.
And oftentimes the client's notthere for that window.
So having a structured way thatwe communicate again, Tuesdays
and Fridays, we send emails.
We have to send every email,every client an email on a
Tuesday, and every client on aFriday.
Tuesdays we're invoicing,Fridays we're saying what
happened this week, what'shappening next week.
(41:44):
If you do those two emails only,that's plenty of communication
with the client if you're doingit right.
If you're sending it saying thisis everything you need to know,
this is what's happening, thisis what's going wrong.
I don't like how the paintturned out.
I'm having the guys come backand do answering all the
questions before they ask them,those two emails are sufficient.
If you say, hey, here's yourinvoice, let me know if you have
(42:04):
any questions and send it off.
Yeah, I don't like the paint.
What's happening with that?
Oh, yeah, I'm getting the guysback out there.
I don't like that either.
Okay, what about the uhcabinets?
What are those showing up?
Where should I say?
Oh, yeah, I forgot to tell youabout that.
Like there will be a lot moreemails if you aren't good at
communicating.
But if you can communicateTuesdays and Fridays, send an
email, tell them you'reavailable on Mondays to walk
with them, clients are going tobe satisfied with knowing what's
(42:27):
going on.
My my my litmus test has alwaysbeen if I can call a random
client of yours and say, hey,what's happening next on this
job?
And they can say, uh James toldme that paint starting next
week.
It looks like we're almost donewith demo.
He invoiced for X, Y, and Z,which makes sense because we're
we're about to need to orderthose materials.
Uh, if the client can tell methat on a random phone call,
(42:47):
you've done your job incommunication.
If I call a client and say, Idon't know what's happening, I
don't know.
I've been James, I'm sure, willlet me know at some point.
That's a failure incommunication.
And so changing how and making afocus on communication once
you're stepping into projectmanagement is so important.
And not only with them, but alsowith subs and with crews and
(43:10):
labor, and I need photos and Ineed this and how to go today
and what's going on with that.
I don't want to be peppered withphone calls all day long from
crews.
I want one call in the morning,one call on the way home.
Hey, what's going on?
Hey, it looked good, things aregreat.
I want a text message of theroom.
Hey, paint's done.
There you go.
Hope uh tomorrow we're startingon X, Y, and Z.
Great, awesome.
Send send me that.
(43:32):
All of this with the two emailsa week, all of this, the bar is
set and the expectations arelowered or raised during your
client engagement agreement.
So all of this communication islaid out to the client.
This is what you can expect outof me.
I'm not there every day.
I'm not there five days a week,eight hours a day.
So just so you know, if youdon't see me, that doesn't mean
I wasn't there.
It means you missed me.
(43:53):
And I was there when you ran tothe store.
I was there when you were atwork, I was there when you went
and got coffee with a friend.
I might have popped in.
But this is how I get to yourjob sites.
This is when Mondays I'm thereevery Monday.
If you want to walk the job sitewith me, come and meet me on
Monday and we can, you know,shoot me a text on Friday and
I'll tell you when Monday I'mgonna be there.
Um, that sort of communicationlevel to where you're available
(44:14):
for them at for the things thatare needed, but I'm just not
gonna be showing up every singleday to chat with you.
Uh and changing that is is huge.
And you don't realize it untilyou start, until you get out and
people are don't like you asmuch.
All of a sudden, like yourreputation's going down a little
bit, and it's like, I don't,man, these people are so needy.
I just need to get back out.
And it's like, no, you you'renot meeting their expectations
(44:36):
and you're not setting the rightexpectations.
You're not doing the CEA andthen two emails a week.
If you're doing those twothings, your communication is
going to be good with them.
Yeah.
So those are my four.
Those are my top four thingsthat I think the calendar, job
site changes, um, invoicing,labor, pay changes, and then
communication changes.
If you change those four things,you're going to be off to the
(44:59):
right way.
I I I wrote some other notes.
I think we're running out oftime, but stuff like quick
estimate turnarounds.
We're doing 48 hours or less forany estimate turnaround.
If I go on site, you will havenumbers within 24 to 48 hours
every single time.
I need to start setting up thoseexpectations of myself because
when you're a project manager,you get spread real thin.
And every single person, everyclient, every sub, everyone in
(45:24):
the office, everyone at home hasa where they want to spend your
time.
And if you don't have a plan forhow you're going to spend that
time, everyone else spends yourtime for you.
When I'm working on one to twojobs at a time, swinging a
hammer, I know what I'm doingtoday.
I'm showing up that job and I'mexecuting work.
SPEAKER_01 (45:40):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_00 (45:40):
If I'm not doing that and I'm a project manager
and I don't have any estimatestoday, I guess I'll just hop in
the truck and go, oh, this guyneeds that.
I'm going to go run thesematerials out to him because he
needs more paint.
No, no, no, no.
We got to plan out that time.
We got to lay it out.
I need you to set aside time towrite those estimates.
I need you to set aside time tobuild out your calendar and
really start focusing on theback burner stuff that you don't
(46:04):
have to get to.
But if you get to it, it makesyour company really, really
efficient and profitablesomehow.
Yeah.
That's it.
Thanks for joining us this week.
And we will see you.
Also, if you one last plug, ifyou want to come to the retreat,
we're filling up.
We have a few slots left.
We're only letting a certainnumber of companies come.
(46:25):
So if you're interested incoming on the retreat, James and
I will be there.
We'll be we'll be doing a lot ofdifferent things planning wise.
I think we have a podcast comingup talking about what the what's
entailing in the retreat.
Um the retreat entails.
Does that work?
What's entailing in the retreat?
SPEAKER_01 (46:41):
No, but I think everybody communicated, you
know, communications aboutpeople understanding, and I
think people understood whatyou're trying to say.
Perfect.
SPEAKER_00 (46:48):
So, anyways, hit us up.
Go to contractorcast.com ifyou're interested in the
retreat.
You can register there.
We love to see you guys inperson in Nashville coming up in
January.
All right.
Bye.
Bye.
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Betrayal: Weekly
Betrayal Weekly is back for a brand new season. Every Thursday, Betrayal Weekly shares first-hand accounts of broken trust, shocking deceptions, and the trail of destruction they leave behind. Hosted by Andrea Gunning, this weekly ongoing series digs into real-life stories of betrayal and the aftermath. From stories of double lives to dark discoveries, these are cautionary tales and accounts of resilience against all odds. From the producers of the critically acclaimed Betrayal series, Betrayal Weekly drops new episodes every Thursday. Please join our Substack for additional exclusive content, curated book recommendations and community discussions. Sign up FREE by clicking this link Beyond Betrayal Substack. Join our community dedicated to truth, resilience and healing. Your voice matters! Be a part of our Betrayal journey on Substack. And make sure to check out Seasons 1-4 of Betrayal, along with Betrayal Weekly Season 1.