Episode Transcript
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Jim Johnson (00:01):
I see this as one
of those challenging things in
our industry.
How much is too much and howmuch is enough, right?
And there's a concept that Ithink a lot of people need to
understand.
There's expected and unexpected.
Expected is your first incentiveor reward.
That's my commissions, whateverbonus structures you have in
(00:22):
place, those types of thingsthat are set up that if I
achieve this, I get that.
Those are expected.
It's actually usually in a jobdescription or some kind of job
offer.
Lined out exactly what thatlooks like.
Then you have the unexpected,these things that aren't in my
job offer or job descriptionthat can determine the
environment within which youwork.
(00:43):
So for example, one of the onesI really enjoy doing is an
annual trip for the people in acompany.
We call it a mission and it canbe revenue based, it could be
profit based, it could be anumber of customers and a lot of
different reasons for thesemissions.
But we're going to go do this.
And if we accomplish this, we'reall going to go on this trip
together.
(01:04):
The only problem with that is ifyou have a group of folks like
sales guys that are instantgratification folks, a trip a
year from now, they're notreally thinking about unless
you're a great leader.
And this is where that leaderapplies that encouragement.
He keeps reminding them aboutthe effort and activities and
work that they're doing.
(01:25):
that are all leading to thistime together to go and enjoy
and be on a trip together.
And so we got to be reallyconsistent with long term
incentives like that, that wekeep it top of mind.
This idea that, Hey, I'm keepingit in front of you, reminding
you that you are eitherperforming at the expected level
or not.
And you're at risk of notjoining us for this fun trip.
(01:49):
One of the best books I've everread about incentive was
Freakonomics.
It's unbelievable, but it hasnothing to do about business.
Really.
There's a couple of StevenLevitt and Steven, can't
remember the second guy's name,uh, but they are researchers.
They study stuff, right?
They wonder why people do whatpeople do.
(02:11):
And incentive is in everythingthat you do.
You did it because there wasincentive.
I'm recording this video todaybecause there's incentive that
one of you out there.
might hear this and might go,this guy knows what he's talking
about.
So there's some incentive for meto do this.
There's incentive for me tobrush my teeth because I don't
want my teeth to fall out.
There's everything in anythingyou do.
(02:33):
There's incentive behind itbecause you're expecting
something, a result to happenfrom it, whether immediately or
longterm.
So if we now understand thatbasic concept that everybody
does anything they do based onincentive, how do I determine
the right incentive?
for the right role in mycompany, the right person in my
(02:55):
company, those things get alittle bit more difficult, a
little bit more nuance.
So I'm going to give my bestadvice.
My best advice is to know yourpeople.
If I know my people, then I knowhow to incentivize them.
So if I got a guy that, likes todrive race cars and drive fast
and stuff like that.
I'm going to apply someincentive to maybe earning a
(03:15):
trip to a track and doing atrack test day.
But that's only because I knowhim.
I'm not going to apply thattrack test day to everybody
cause they might not be on boardfor that.
So there's this concept of theexpected and the unexpected that
comes into play.
It takes a lot of practice toreally understand it, but.
(03:36):
It's not that hard.
Just know your people, ask themwhat they're about, what they
want to achieve, what are theytrying to accomplish?
And if you really think aboutit, they're pretty similar.
Um, a lot of people are savingup for college funds for their
kids.
Okay, awesome.
Let's set up an action plan thatsays some of the money you earn
aside and maybe we can match.
And that's the key to the wholething is figure out, is that
(03:57):
really what they're about?
They just lying to you becausethey might not be telling you
the truth and they might say,Hey, yeah, I want to put college
money back for my kids.
Okay.
But the reality is they want anew shotgun.
And so you got to dig deepenough to to find what truly is
going to push and motivatesomebody And then set them up to
have that success with thatparticular thing There's some
(04:18):
things to consider when buildingan incentive program or contest
or anything like that the numberone mistake that people that do
any kind of incentive do is theyLead people to this first second
third finisher type thing YouYou win, you get this, you get a
second, you get that third, youget this.
And especially when it comes tosales teams and sales teams, you
(04:41):
tend to have the same group ofpeople of two to five people
that win every contest likethat.
And it becomes boring to theother 10 or 15 other folks that
you have selling for you.
And they're just not into itanymore because you say, Hey,
for first place, the most numberof contracts this week gets
this.
(05:01):
Thanks.
Well, the first guy goes out andhe had six of them already
waiting and he just went andsigned them real quick and puts
up a big number right away,takes everybody's will away.
And he did it purposely.
He's trying to win a contest.
He's competitive.
There's another guy and he'sover there sandbagging for the
whole time or whatever yourcontest link does.
And then at the last day, heturns them all in to beat the
guy that turned in all the onesup front.
(05:22):
It tends to be the same two orthree people over and over
again.
So if you want to fix that,determine what it is that you
want.
Incentives are about getting notonly what they want, but also
what you're trying to get out ofthem.
If I wanted a bunch of ordersturned in, I'd run a contest
about getting a certain amountof orders turned in for anywhere
from a week to 30 days,depending on how many I needed.
(05:45):
And I would set a standard likeeverybody that gets this number,
it gets this cool thing,whatever it may be.
I try to have those beexperienced types things that
fit the culture of my people.
So the example I gave earlierwas like the guy Getting the one
thing that fit for him reallywell.
I got to know that side ofthings for sure.
But then I also have tounderstand the environment of my
(06:07):
team and the culture I'm tryingto create.
So if I'm trying to create areally competitive culture, I
might say, Hey, everybody thatgets this number, we're all
going to Topgolf together.
We're going to go have a Topgolfday, Topgolf Olympics.
We're going to play three ofthem.
We're going to Topgolfer.
You're going to get a Topgolfaward and all kinds of stuff,
right?
Like make it really fun,competitive.
But if that's not your jam,you've got to just think about,
(06:29):
be a little bit creative aboutwhat that could look like for
you and your business.
Here's the one thing I know.
This is, this is a no doubter,the absolute biggest mistake we
make is we give cash prizesbecause we think that's what
people want.
We even go through the effort toask, Hey, okay, so we're
(06:49):
thinking about doing somebonuses and contests and stuff
like that.
What do you guys want?
Money.
Money.
We want money and they don'treally, because here's the
thing.
We don't remember the money.
We get the money.
We have a celebration for aboutan hour or whatever.
You might even gloat over it fora week, but then you spend it in
all kinds of places and youdon't ever relate anything back
(07:10):
to like that money was fromthis, for me doing that.
You went and bought a hot dog atthe convenience store, put some
gas, your gas tank, that kind ofthing.
What we really remember areexperiences.
I remember one of the bestexperiences we ever had was
taking my SEALS team to abaseball game.
I had contacted the baseballteam and said, Hey, I'd like to
(07:30):
create an experience for myguys.
And they're like, absolutely,we'll get it.
We'll get somebody set up foryou the whole bit.
And like, we got to hit like offin the batting cage, off of like
batting practice, pitchers andstuff.
Those guys talked about that foryears.
And it was one of the bestexperiences they ever had.
Those are the things that willreally get people.
(07:52):
To help you achieve that sharedvision that you're looking for.