May 24, 2024 • 45 mins
Join LinkedIn LIVE Host, Samantha Amit as she and her guest, Dr. Kelly Whelan, explore how integrating coaching into leadership can transform team dynamics by enhancing listening skills and presence. Discover the art of boosting executive presence and foster genuine communication within teams. We'll share how being fully present is a skill that can deepen relationships and drive team success through intentional mindfulness techniques.
Discover the art of boosting executive presence and foster genuine communication within teams. We'll share how being fully present is a skill that can deepen relationships and drive team success through intentional mindfulness techniques.
Dive into the transformative power of feedback in leadership development. Embrace feedback not just as a necessity, but as a tool for growth that can foster a culture of open communication and positive reinforcement. By focusing on behaviors and performance, rather than personal attributes, leaders can build stronger relationships and align individual goals with the wider organizational objectives. We provide you with strategies to view feedback as a gift, encouraging personal and professional growth.
Navigate the challenges of team collaboration with strategic communication insights. From adapting your communication style to understanding the subtleties of empathy and emotional intelligence, we guide you through common pitfalls. Learn how to establish team norms that enhance performance and keep meetings productive and engaging. Ensure every participant is heard and valued, setting the stage for a collaborative and efficient team environment.
Find Samantha Amit @ ask-your-coach.com and on social @samamit
Find Dr. Kelly Whelan @ belemleaders.org
On social @belemleaders and @christiancoachingmag
BelemLeaders–Your organization's trusted partner for leader and team development. Visit our website to connect: belemleaders.org or book a discovery call today! belem.as.me/discovery
Until next time, keep doing great things!
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Dr. Kelly Whelan (00:00):
Hi Kelly, how are you today?
I am doing great, Sam.
I'm so happy to be with youtoday and your audience, so
thank you for having meAppreciate that Sure.
Samantha Amit (00:13):
So hello everybody.
Wherever you are, today we'regoing to be speaking about all
things coaching and how you canintegrate coaching into your
work, into with your teams andwith your external and internal
stakeholders.
So I'm Samantha Amit, welcome.
I met Kelly.
I'm a leadership coach and Imet Kelly actually during a team
(00:37):
coaching.
We studied together for twoyears team coaching and I've
also been on her podcast.
So, kelly, would you like tosay a few words about yourself?
Dr. Kelly Whelan (00:47):
Sure, sure.
Well, thanks again for havingme.
I am Kelly Whalen and I am thefounder of Bellum Leaders excuse
me which is a US based leaderand team development firm.
We do have different arms ofthe organization, so we do have
coaching and consulting.
We have a research arm, atraining arm, an events arm.
(01:09):
We also have the Conversationsfor Leaders in Teams podcast and
we are the publisher ofChristian Coaching Magazine.
So just delighted to be hereand talk around coaching today
with you.
Samantha Amit (01:24):
Fantastic.
So maybe I'm going to inviteeverybody just to take a breath.
Wherever you are, whetheryou're in the car, whether
you're sitting down, walking,wherever you are take a breath
and let's also invite somegratitude into the space.
Yeah, into the space, you know.
(01:44):
Welcome everybody, yeah.
So, as I said, I'm samantha metand I coach leaders in 30
different countries, and I findthat coaching um is the most
amazing tool that you can add toyour leadership toolbox, to
your leadership brand.
(02:05):
Just today, for example, I wasworking on, you know, with the
leader who wants to get apromotion, and so it's a
fantastic way really to open upand also to get fairer side and
to encourage people to be theirbest selves and encourage
(02:27):
yourself, encourage your team.
So, kelly, what do you think?
Should we start off with?
Talking a bit about listeningskills?
Where do you think we should go?
Dr. Kelly Whelan (02:36):
Sure, we can start wherever.
Wherever you want to go, I'llgo.
You know, as far as, aslistening skills, super
important to have and I thinkyou know, samantha, I think
everything we talk about heretoday, yes, we can take it into
the workplace, but it also istaken outside of the workplace
(02:58):
and into our homes and with ourfriends.
So, just as we're talking, Ithink, maybe think about not
just the workplace but more of aholistic when we talk about
like even listening, right, arewe listening?
Are we truly listening, and arewe listening to hear?
Samantha Amit (03:19):
Yeah, that's beautiful.
And even now, just noticewhat's going on for you wherever
you are.
Many of the times we aremultitasking.
So many of the times I workwith you know leaders, managers,
that are running virtualmeetings predominantly, and so
(03:40):
many of the people that I coachtell me that they struggle.
So many of the people that Icoach tell me that they struggle
.
They have multiple screens openand often you know messages
that are popping up and theythemselves are guilty the
managers themselves are guiltyof not fully listening in the
meeting.
So I think the biggest gift youcan give is your presence and I
(04:01):
just got goosebumps, and so youknow, being fully present and
really listening is, I think,one of the biggest gifts that
you can give to the people thatyou are working with today.
Dr. Kelly Whelan (04:14):
Yeah, and that goes back, you know, many times
you talk about executivepresence and really that active
listening and fully sitting inthat moment and listening to
your people is so imperative,but then that's vice versa too.
So how are our people reallytuning into us?
(04:36):
And a lot of that, you know, isaround communication and
understanding your people inorder to understand, you know,
are they focused, are they thatmultitasker?
And how can we help them kindof maybe sit in the pause to
open their ears and open theirhearts to what's coming?
Samantha Amit (05:00):
I love that, opening their hearts.
So I think that we need to rolemodel.
As managers, we do need a rolemodel being present and because
I work with a lot of engineers,sometimes they really need to.
You know, the brain sometimesdoesn't just switch.
If you're in the office andyou're working on your computer
(05:25):
and you are actually in personand somebody comes into your
office, it's not alwaysautomatic to being in the moment
is.
Yeah, I think that is one of thetop things that I would
(05:51):
recommend for people that arelistening to practice, because
when you truly listen, you candevelop that curiosity skill.
And when you develop thatcuriosity of really truly
becoming like a detective andbeing like really curious around
your team, then you can get toknow them.
(06:12):
Because that's what you weretalking about, like do you
really know your team?
And this way, just throughlistening, you can really get to
know them because you can pickup the subtle things.
Um, you know, they're like nine.
We learned at coaching school,like when I was studying around
I don't know, 16 years agothere's like nine different ways
of listening, and I'm surethey're more by now.
(06:33):
So I mean nine different waysof listening, it's, it's a lot
but it is.
Dr. Kelly Whelan (06:41):
You know it goes back to that intentionality
.
And so how are you and you andthe work you do with mindfulness
, I mean that's a perfect spacefor you to be helping.
You know, leaders and coachesreally unpack the mind piece of
it.
And you know, when you gooutside and listen, I'm only
(07:09):
going to be listening for birds,you know as simple as that, and
just trying to push outeverything else except birds.
And it's that intentionalityand practice, if you will.
So you start tuning your ear into what's important as well.
Samantha Amit (07:23):
Yeah, absolutely .
So I'm going to shift us a bitto talking about questioning and
how, as coaches, we usequestioning a lot different
kinds of questions, and how thatopens up the conversation, how,
actually, when you ask aquestion afterwards it also
(07:44):
requires you to listen to theanswer.
So introduce us a little bit tohow you think from your
experience, maybe with evencurrent teams you're coaching,
or you know the team leader oror somebody that you're coaching
one-on-one like what are younoticing about their leadership
(08:05):
style?
Because in this live, I want toalso, I want us to encourage
you know you to try new things.
That's also a big thing incoaching to try new things.
So how are you with yourquestioning?
What's your questioning like?
And I see we've already got aquestion here, so maybe, kelly,
(08:28):
you can have a look.
I actually know Brian.
Dr. Kelly Whelan (08:32):
So, yeah, I do this hard work and I think it
is great for leaders to be ableto ask for time and complete a
task or thought before givingthem the person in the
conversation your full attention.
Great comment, that's a greatcomment, brian.
Thank you for that.
It is giving that space and Ithink we'll probably talk about
(08:57):
psychological safety and trustat some point here.
And it is so imperative to yes,we need to know our people, but
, yes, we need to create thatspace for these things to happen
as well, and before we evenjump into all that but I'm sure
we'll get to that as far asquestions, it's truly important
(09:18):
to move from when we're thinkingabout a coaching leadership
style, if you will, to move fromalways that directive to more
collaborative.
I was coaching a leader goshprobably, I don't know eight or
nine years ago, and he used tocome into his sessions and say I
feel like they're daddy,they're always coming to me with
(09:41):
their problems and they want meto fix it.
And he was.
And so there was a shift,another mindset shift that
needed to happen there, withhelping this leader understand
that questions will prompt thatlearning and development and
growing your leaders when youstart asking what questions or
(10:03):
how questions, and it's trulyinviting your people into the
process of problem solving, soyou're not the one who is always
being directive and giving theanswers.
It's more having a conversationand figuring it out together
and helping the other personreally figure it out.
I mean, you're there to listen,having that active listening
(10:26):
and providing some questions toprompt their thinking.
But it was amazing when he madethat shift, that aha moment,
when he started practicing andagain I'm using that word
practice because coaching is apractice.
We are constantly trying newthings in our field, work, if
(10:47):
you will, in our workingenvironments and at home to
practice and see how they go.
Samantha Amit (10:55):
Yeah, absolutely .
So.
I really appreciate the callout to how you can empower and
grow your people and when you dothat, you become a multiplier.
And you know Liz Wiseman's bookMultipliers is huge.
And so if in your leadershipstyle and again I've got
(11:16):
goosebumps you're opening up,you're asking questions, you're
a multiplier If you come in withall the answers.
And you know, some managers,especially young managers,
sometimes think that if theydon't show up and actually you
know, show how smart they arethen they think that you know
(11:39):
their teams will think that theyhave basically these limiting
beliefs that they need to speakfirst, that they need to give
all the answers and when theydiscover and hopefully you know
people that are listening intous here, watching us, actually
are at that stage where they'reready to ask more questions, and
there are many different typesof questions you can ask.
Dr. Kelly Whelan (12:02):
Yeah, you can ask yeah, you know that, you
know when.
When you talk about the youngleaders, it also it reminds me
of the generations and even thebaby boomers who are in the
workplace.
They have always been verydirective and it can be very
difficult for these leaders tomake that shift into a more
(12:25):
coaching leadership style,because it's something that
they've always done and perhapsit's worked in the past for them
and so they continue to do that.
So I think it's regardless ofage, but it may be generational.
I think there's, there needs tobe that shift in that openness
with the practice of let's trythis and see what kind of result
(12:49):
we get.
That's different, especially ifwe don't like how something is
going, like the leader that Italked about for sure.
Samantha Amit (12:59):
So I want to give a practical example of
somebody that I'm coaching andwhat she's done is she's created
a template that she uses forone-on-ones with questions that
she, you know, she, uh, shelooked into and then she came up
with these questions.
And what she does is she helps,because some people like to
(13:21):
think so when the leader, whenthe team member, the direct
report, comes into theone-on-one, they already know
that they're going to bequestions, and what she's done
is she's flipped it around.
Usually she would be the firstone to speak and share, et
cetera.
Now what she does is she leansback and she offers and she
(13:41):
invites more the you know theteam member, the direct report,
to speak first, and she's doingthis now in meetings as well.
So it's like really, she'scoming to a new space of like
saying I believe in you, I trustyou, and like I want to hear
(14:02):
what you have to say, and that'salso a big part in coaching.
So now I'm shifting a bit.
We're going to still be withthe questions, but now a big
part of coaching is that as acoach, and when you bring a
coaching hat into yourleadership style, you're saying
to your direct reports I believein you and, as you mentioned,
(14:24):
kelly, what you said a fewminutes ago, you're saying to
the people that you're workingwith let's collaborate together.
We, together, can be so muchmore, and that's what a coaching
partnership is.
Together, we can be so muchmore, and that's what a coaching
partnership is.
Dr. Kelly Whelan (14:42):
Together, we can be so much more.
It is, and it's also how you'reshowing up, not just with your
words, but it's also youractions.
And so if you are a leader whois typically closed off, and
your body language is is showingthat you know, your arms
crossed and maybe not such anice facial expression and
(15:06):
sometimes that's just yournature it's important to be
thinking about that.
I was working with a youngmanager and he just couldn't
understand why people, just theyweren't warming up to him, and
so I was in observation mode andI noticed that arms were
(15:28):
crossed, quite a bit facialexpression there really wasn't
much smiling, there wasn't muchyou know, openness to him, and
so we really had to have thatconversation about this isn't,
yes, it's about you as a manager, as a leader, but it's more
about the people that you'reserving.
(15:48):
And how are you showing up inyour body language to help open
the door right, so they will belistening to you, so they will
be hearing you, so you cancollaborate together.
So I think that that's that'sreally important as well when
you're thinking about yourcoaching, and we as coaches have
(16:09):
to show up.
We're showing up present.
Our body language has to be acertain way.
We can't be closed off.
We want you to be open duringthe conversation, so the same is
true for leaders.
Samantha Amit (16:23):
Yeah, yeah.
So I'm going to come back towhat you said with the body
language, but I'm going to shifta little bit and then come back
to it.
So, and what I've just done, bythe way, is also coaching
competency, where you want toalways focus the conversation
(16:43):
but you want to align.
We do that a lot with teams.
You want to align with peopleyou're talking about.
So, because I'm switching alittle bit from what Kelly was
speaking about, what I'm doingnow is I'm just aligning with
you listening to me that I amgoing to be doing that and then
coming back to the body language.
So that's a good thing to do.
So, um, yeah, so it's reallyimportant to stretch yourself as
(17:10):
a leader, as a manager, andyou're doing that, I think, by
showing up and learning, becausewhen you learn, you can
practice new.
So what we do in the coachingspace, we're always empowering
the people that we're coachingto experiment and try new things
and stretch at least 15% out ofyour comfort zone, and it's not
(17:32):
comfortable.
So, and we're going to come backto that subject, but now I'm
shifting back how does thisconnect to the body language?
So, first of all, it connectsin a number of ways.
We were speaking a few minutesago around mindset, and your
mindset is going to impact onyour action, the actions you
(17:54):
choose.
So if you choose that you wantto come across as more open and
you've received feedback in your360 that you're a bit serious
or you're a bit closed so if youwant to stretch yourself, if
you want to put yourself into aplace, it's not going to be
comfortable if you're used tositting with your arms closed
(18:16):
and I'm just doing that on thescreen if anybody's listening.
If you're used to sitting withyour arms closed and I'm just
doing that on the screen ifanybody's listening, it's not
going to be easy, but you caneasily read up an article of how
can I show up with my bodylanguage to have a more open
style.
And this is true for anything.
You want to practice anything.
You want to practice everythingis out there on the internet,
(18:36):
so you Google it.
Practice.
Everything is out there on theinternet, so you Google it.
And then to be more coach-likemeans you stretch yourself 15%
out of your comfort zone, soit's not going to be comfortable
and that's what you want to dofor yourself and you want to do
it as well for your team, yourdirect reports, to help them
grow.
Dr. Kelly Whelan (18:56):
That's right.
I love that because it isimportant that growth but also
the practice right, becauseeverything we do and as leaders
we are always kind of not justticking the boxes but we're
saying what is the outcome andhow are we measuring that
outcome and how are wecontinually pushing the envelope
?
So if this works, so if now I'mnot crossing my my arms, that's
(19:21):
one piece of it.
Now maybe I'm working on myfacial expression and putting it
all together and, like you said, samantha, that could be out of
somebody's comfort zone whentheir whole life that's just
normal for them, and so I thinkit's it's.
We have to give ourselves grace.
We have to remember that thingsaren't always going to go
(19:44):
perfectly and it does take time.
But it's also about askingpeople, you know, and getting
that feedback, and feedback isanother piece of you know,
coaching and and helping peopleunderstand that.
You know, be vocal.
I'm trying to grow as a leader.
Can you help me and askwhatever question it is that you
(20:05):
want the answer to, but then beable to receive that
information in a way to help yougrow?
You may not agree with it, itmay make you uncomfortable, but
if you really do have thatmindset of I'm in this to
develop myself as a leader, thenjust just take that, hold on to
it and sit with it for a minute, if you need to, and then
(20:30):
what's your next step beyondthat to help you?
Samantha Amit (20:33):
Yeah, so I think this is a great place to you
know just like put the titlethat we're talking about
feedback.
Now, feedback is critical.
It's one of the best ways todevelop yourself and to develop
your team again, help them grow,and also to develop the
(20:56):
business.
And so, Kelly, what you justnamed is asking for feedback,
and so some companies that wework with we see that feedback
is part of the culture and soit's a good thing.
Where there is positivefeedback, we need to give five
times the amount of positivefeedback for every one
(21:18):
developmental or, let's say,criticism.
Okay, and um, this is also hardand difficult, as brian says
here.
All these, all thesecompetencies, they don't come
naturally to us.
If we're not in an environmentthat supports feedback, either
through a system, throughtemplate template, you know
through documents or through,you know, conversations, then
(21:43):
you as a leader, can startdeveloping it.
And by asking what Kelly justnamed, asking for feedback is
the best way actually to bringit in, because if you're just
going to expect it to happen, itdoesn't just happen.
If you're just going to expectit to happen, it doesn't just
happen If you don't ask for it.
Dr. Kelly Whelan (22:05):
people are nervous, for different reasons,
of giving feedback.
Yeah, and typically, samantha,people think of feedback as
negative.
Their body starts tensing up ifthey are going to be having a
feedback session and insteadlet's think of it as a gift.
(22:30):
It's a gift for ourselves, sowe can then have that
development and grow from it.
And to remember that a lot oftimes it's about the behavior or
the performance.
It's not about you as a person,it's about that behavior,
performance, and it could begood and it could be not so good
.
So we want to make sure that,as you said earlier, that we are
not just saying what's wrong,because everyone is unique.
(22:51):
Everybody has wonderfulstrengths and talents that
they're bringing into theworkplace and it's important to
recognize those, but then alsosee how we can use those to help
with our feedback and givingand receiving that, as well as
creating our performance and ourbehaviors to align with that,
but again, also with theorganizational goals or the team
(23:14):
goals or whatever your leaderand the goals that you have
established.
Make sure they're aligning.
Samantha Amit (23:24):
Right, right.
What I'm going to do is I'mgoing to actually take this
opportunity to bring in what youspoke about at the beginning,
that this call this live sessionis not only about you at work
and so how you could usefeedback at home.
Everybody needs positivereinforcement If you want to
(23:45):
start practicing giving positivefeedback, and it's really gold.
Look at the people around you,look at the people that you're
going to be meeting in a fewhours.
You know, maybe you're workingfrom home.
In between, you go and get aglass of water, or somebody
brings you something, someonebrings your coffee, and so it's
(24:06):
not just about saying thank youor well done.
Feedback is much more specific.
Around you know saying tosomebody, you know, you just
know that no, this is what Ineed in the morning, and you
know, just saying the rightthing to that person, honoring
them for that moment.
(24:27):
It just takes sometimes 30seconds to give specific
feedback, and it's not justpraise and it can really
strengthen relationships.
Dr. Kelly Whelan (24:38):
It sure can.
I think also an important pieceof feedback is really setting
the stage or the table for it.
Especially if it is going to bea conversation that you might
be going into it, or even theleader who will be giving
feedback, it might be a littlebit uncomfortable and really
(25:02):
understanding that again, it'snot about the person, it's about
whatever it is that you'regoing to be talking about.
But also the timing of it isimportant.
The environment that you'regoing to create, and that's not
just from a psychological safetyenvironment, but the actual
physical environment that you'regoing to create, and that's not
just from a psychologicalsafety environment, but the
actual physical environment thatyou're going to be in.
(25:23):
I mean, we typically don't wantto have these conversations,
especially if they'reuncomfortable conversations at
the water cooler in the hallwaywith everybody you know standing
around.
So setting the stage isimportant when we're talking
about feedback.
Samantha Amit (25:42):
Yeah.
So what I'd like to do is talka little bit about the
difference between, you know,having a style which is more
giving autonomy, in other wordsgiving space and lots of space
to your direct reports todevelop, as opposed to, you know
(26:03):
, micromanaging them.
And I see that and often, youknow, these polar opposites are
problematic.
And so if you, let's say, ifwe're talking about feedback and
you're giving developmentalfeedback, talking about feedback
and you're giving developmentalfeedback, so somebody's you
know, maybe, kelly, you canthink of a good example.
(26:24):
I'm just trying to think of anexample of developmental
feedback that we could give tosomebody.
Sometimes it's harsh, but let'ssay it's not harsh and you're
growing that person.
Sometimes they need nurturingand you can't just give them the
feedback and then leave themand expect them to just give
them the feedback and then leavethem and expect them to, you
know, just show up and whateverthey're doing in their style.
So, oh, I've got one, okay.
(26:45):
So I have this a lot of timesis that, you know, some people
are too direct in their approachso they come across as being
rude to some individuals.
So sometimes, especially inemails, because in emails or you
know, messages, text messagesif you don't take your time to
explain and you're not very goodat communication, so your
(27:08):
direct report will come acrossas being abrupt or being stern
or being disrespectful, and thetruth is the the problem you
know female or male is is notlike that at all, that they're
the nice.
I meet some of these people.
They're the nicest people andthey've been given feedback by
(27:28):
their manager that, um, you knowthey need to change their style
and so if you have somebodylike this that you want to coach
through because you want togive them this feedback, that
they need to change theircommunication style, it's so
important to develop them and tonurture them and know that it's
(27:51):
a journey.
So when we're coaching, youknow a team or in one-on-one,
it's a journey, there's an arc,it's not just about one
conversation and that's it.
You know a team or inone-on-one, it's a journey,
there's an arc, it's not justabout one conversation and
that's it, you know.
Move on.
Dr. Kelly Whelan (28:07):
Yes, you're absolutely right, and it reminds
me of a few years ago I workedwith one of the Bellum coaches,
because we know that coachesalways need coaches.
Right, it's important for us tohave a coach, because all good
coaches and all great coacheshave a coach, and this was
around emotional intelligenceand one of the things that I was
(28:32):
on the lower side was empathy,and part of that shows up in my
text messaging.
This is just a quick example.
So if I'm thinking of something, I shoot off the text and I had
to learn how to preempt that.
(28:52):
Preempt the thought of justshooting it off and somebody
just receiving the text from mewith just this message right?
Yeah, it seems cold sometimes Ihad to learn how to be a little
more warm and fuzzy at thebeginning and be able to have a
text message that said you know,hello, how are you?
(29:14):
I hope everything's, you know,going well, and here's my
thought.
But it took me, and I'm still awork in practice, and you are
too, I'm sure, with whatever itis that you're working on.
But we have to have thatself-awareness and then we have
to decide how are we going tohelp ourselves?
Have that action plan, if youwill, based on the feedback that
(29:40):
we've received.
Samantha Amit (29:42):
Right, right.
So what this is, you know.
First, I'm not that too.
I'm very results orientated,and that's why mindfulness for
me has been a savior, becauseit's helped me to enjoy the
journey, because I was soresults orientated that I was
always like, first of allrushing to the outcome, not
enjoying the journey.
(30:03):
And then I get to the outcome,you enjoy success for like I
don't know one minute, and thenyou're on to your next goal come
.
You enjoy success for like Idon't know one minute, and then
you're on to your next goal.
And so I often found myselfalso sending off messages and
then realizing, oh my god, thisperson's you know father's in
hospital.
I didn't even ask, you know how.
Like, uh, cold of me anyway.
So the thing is, when you know,obviously, when you know your
(30:27):
team, well, they know you and soyou can actually it's much
easier within your team to beyourself and to be like not have
any fuzziness or warmth,because you know, if you know
the person and they know you,then you know, especially if
there's trust there and you'vebuilt a strong relationship
(30:50):
there, then you can actually getaway with a lot of things
because there's respect there,there's trust.
When you're building that withstakeholders that don't interact
with you on a day-to-day basis,it's so important to put the
extra in.
To put the extra in or tounderstand, like, what is this
(31:11):
person like?
Are they similar to me?
Do they need more?
You know, now I'm going toshift again.
Some people need more detail,some people need more strategy,
and so being more coach likemeans adapting yourself to the
person in front of you and um inorder to work better together.
(31:35):
So it doesn't mean you have tocompletely adapt, but it is
really important to you know,find that way of um of
communicating that's best forboth of you.
Dr. Kelly Whelan (31:49):
And that takes work.
It takes work to understandyour people, but the value and
the benefits are going tosurpass the time that it's going
to take you to get to know yourpeople.
I mean just even knowing theirname.
Calling them by name I meansimple things like that mean so
(32:10):
much to a person.
It means that you see them, itmeans that you respect them when
you call them by name somethingas simple as that.
And many times we're just,we're just talking and they know
that we know their name.
But when you actually say, whenI'm calling you Samantha or
you're calling me Kelly, you arerecognizing me and that is
(32:32):
important for that relationship.
Samantha Amit (32:35):
Yeah, yeah.
So what you're referring tosometimes is well, I'm picking
this up Sometimes the simplestthings we actually could be
using and we don't think aboutit.
And I'm going to shift us again, if it's okay, on a similar
subject, but to meetings,because we're all in a lot of
(32:57):
meetings and how can we get themost out of our meetings?
So I want to start off with thecommunication piece and
creating connection.
But then there's lots that wecan cover in the subject of
meetings, because a lot ofpeople suffer from meetings and
they're not being run well, andso bringing more coaching
qualities into a meeting couldbe really good.
(33:18):
So this is where we're going tobe segwaying into.
But just before that, I want tosay that something also that's
so simple Doesn't always happen.
So when you're running a virtualmeeting, like a virtual team
meeting, it's not always obviousif you're not a people person.
If you're not a people personand you're more results and
(33:42):
outcome orientated let's sayyou've got more of a science
mind then what may happen invirtual meetings if, if you have
a team, is you may jump intothe agenda and you may jump into
, you know, meeting stuff likeoutcome stuff, goal stuff,
result stuff, and it's soimportant to have like a small
(34:05):
connection exercise and that maybe part of your leadership
style.
That may be part of yourleadership style, it may be part
of your company style, but ifyou're listening and it's not
and you are just jumpingstraight into the data, please
just take this as something toconsider to find a way to
connect with the people that areon the call and that you're
(34:30):
going to need to figure out.
Dr. Kelly Whelan (34:32):
Yeah, that check-in piece I feel is so
imperative when I'm working withteams.
It's allowing not just me as acoach or you as a leader, to
understand how your team isshowing up in that moment, but
it's also about the team membersunderstanding what's happening,
(34:52):
how they're showing up.
And I recently met with a teamthat's just a couple weeks ago
and in our check-in there weresome pretty heavy words.
They were just to have one wordwith how they're showing up.
There were some pretty heavywords that were showing up.
So it's not that everybody'sgoing to be coming.
You know all joyful to ameeting.
You know, maybe somethinghappened just before that
(35:15):
meeting and it may mean that itgets talked about within that
session.
It may be that following thatsession, you're doing a check-in
with the person to see howthey're doing, but that's super
important at the onset before,like you said, you jump into the
task at hand.
Samantha Amit (35:37):
Yeah.
So if you want to be morecoach-like in your leadership
style, that means reallybringing in the awareness to
what's going on around you,what's going on with your team,
how are they?
And, if you know, as Kelly andI are team coaches, a big part
(35:58):
of team coaching is creatingcollaboration and support within
the team, so that the teammembers are not working in silos
but they are supporting eachother.
And that can happen on a lot ofdifferent levels, and one of
them Kelly's just spoken aboutnow.
So what she?
What she said, is that ifsomebody names and there's a,
(36:20):
you know, an exercise that BreneBrown talks about that you just
name your emotion, you nameyour emotion and you put that in
the chat.
It could be something else, butthat way you have a pulse and
know what's going on with peoplearound you.
And this way it doesn'tnecessarily need to be spoken
about in the team meeting, butat least you can be sure that
(36:42):
some of the team members aregoing to check in with that
person if they're saying they'refeeling tired or they say
they're feeling, you know, alittle bit low.
Today I have an exercise that,again, I like to use because I
work with a lot of people in thecyber space, and so for them
it's easy to like write a numberfrom 1 to 10, where 1 is low
(37:06):
and 10 is high.
What's your energy like rightnow?
And so they put in from 1 to 10, where one is low and 10 is
high.
What's your energy like rightnow?
And so they put in from one to10 in, and that's just so that
you can get a pulse as a leader.
And it's something so simpleand it takes 30 seconds.
And then after that again, ifsomebody's written a five or
four, you're definitely gonna bechecking in on them and you can
(37:27):
be sure that some of the teammembers are gonna check in on
them, and you can be sure thatsome of the team members are
going to check in on them.
And that way you really reallygrow that team camaraderie, the
team collaboration.
You're going to be the highperforming team in the company.
Dr. Kelly Whelan (37:42):
That's what we want.
We definitely want.
It's not just around that highperformance, it's also that
value right?
So it's you're a highperforming team, which means
you're adding value to theorganization because of how
you're operating collectively,for sure.
Samantha Amit (37:59):
All right, all right, so is it.
What else do we want to talkabout in meetings?
Dr. Kelly Whelan (38:08):
Let's see.
Well, I mean in team coaching,when we're sitting in meetings,
we are really being able to, youknow, assess there could be
that there's a lot ofdisruptions and you know team
coaches if you have a team coach, come into your meeting, we're
(38:29):
going to be really taking a peekat that and we may bring it up.
It depends on what theagreement is with the team and
how we're bringing that into theteam meeting.
But it may be that we're justaware of it and we'll talk with
the team at a later time aroundit.
But I think to have effectivemeetings, everybody has to have
(38:49):
not just a seat at the table buta voice at the table and they
have to be comfortable beingable to bring their voice out
and be speaking withoutdisruption, being very
respectful in meetings for sure.
Samantha Amit (39:04):
Right, right.
So that could be what we'recalling team coaching, a team
norm, and I'm always encouragingleaders to think what are the
values that you want to bringinto your team and what are the
team norms?
Team norms are like do's anddon'ts.
Those are agreements that youmake with your team and so like
(39:25):
an agreement could be because Ijust had this, now that you know
, a team leader said that twopeople were late for the meeting
and so the meeting started 15minutes late.
Now you can be sure that somepeople are going to see that as
disrespectful.
They're going to be discouraged.
I mean, you know, time isimportant for some people.
(39:45):
So having a team norm that weshow up on time, you know, and
if not, then you know you have away to handle it.
So just think about your teamnorms and your team values and
what you want to bring in.
That's like the flavor thatyou're bringing, and this could
be something that you can talkabout also in a team meeting.
(40:08):
So what I want to do now becauseI'm just noticing that we're
almost at the end of our time,but I want to quickly throw in
something else before we wrap upand maybe we can summarize a
little bit.
So I want to just talk aboutthe structure of a meeting,
because I often observe, as ateam coach, I observe meetings
and what I saw, you know withyou know, somebody that I'm
(40:29):
coaching's a.
She's a business owner in theprofessional services space, so
she has a great check-in at thebeginning and then she also has
like a really good discussionaround what learnings you know
learnings, uh, planning, um, andthen what happens is what
(40:49):
happened I saw a couple of timesis they didn't have time to
check out.
So you have a check-in in thebeginning, which is the
connection piece.
You have whatever needs tohappen, the agenda, and then the
ending is also important, whatneeds to happen at the end?
Because, like when you'rewriting an essay or you, you
know there's a beginning, amiddle and an end, and this is
(41:11):
also in a coaching conversation.
It's the same.
So think about how you want toend your meetings and if you
have an ending or everybody justrushes out and you don't always
finish the meeting.
So what I'd like to encourageyou to do, because meetings are
so important, first of all, youknow they should be focused.
So think of how you show up as,how you're creating that focus
(41:35):
in the meeting and then see thatyou've got, you know, this
check-in, the middle piece,which is like the real heart we
call it the heart of thecoaching, but the heart of the
meeting and then you've got, youknow, the checkout, which is
what are the outcomes that youwant to leave with.
Dr. Kelly Whelan (41:51):
Yes, and you know the agenda has to be
intentional, like you're saying.
I have sat in on some meetingsthat were three hours long
because that's how they didthings.
Now could that have beencondensed Absolutely.
So there are ways to do thatthat.
So if you think that you haveto have this, this long meeting,
(42:13):
let's just see how can wecondense it and still have
really good outcomes from that.
Because people they're going toget tired, their brains are
going to stop working, they arenot going to be as engaged if
you have that intentional agendawith a time span that is
reasonable for you to get thework done.
Samantha Amit (42:34):
Yeah, absolutely so.
If you have somebody that'sreally good with time management
and organized management in theteam, you could nominate them
and ask them if they want to bethe timekeeper, so that you can
say you know you have that.
That could be a team norm that10 minutes before we finish, or
15 minutes before we finish thetime, people will say, hey, it's
(42:56):
time to start wrapping up yes,absolutely yeah, I love it yeah.
So let us start wrapping up inthese couple of minutes that we
have left.
Um, let's just go over a littlebit of what we spoke about.
Um, so I'm going to throw in afew things and you can throw in
(43:17):
a few things.
The piece that for me is reallyimportant is, uh, you know,
being intentional.
We've spoken about that a lot.
So it starts with your mindsetand what you as a leader okay,
as a manager, as a leader, evenif you're not a manager, you can
still be a leader.
A leader is anybody that isinfluential, that's showing up,
(43:39):
that has followers.
So think about what you want.
Think about how you want toshow up, what your attitude is
and how that's going to show upin your action, as Kelly was
talking about.
So how that's going to show upin your body language, how it's
going to show up what yourattitude is and how that's going
to show up in your action, asKelly was talking about.
So how that's going to show upin your body language, how it's
going to show up in the way youcommunicate, and then check are
you getting the desired outcome?
Dr. Kelly Whelan (43:59):
That's right, yeah, and for me, I think the
message around everything thatyou said and everything we
talked about today is topractice, practice, practice,
practice.
Be okay, not being perfect,because it's not about
perfection and what you'retrying or you know what the
outcome is.
It's really about how are yourising into excellence, so then
(44:22):
you can be that high performerthat had high add, high value to
your organization as you are,you know, growing in your
leadership.
Samantha Amit (44:32):
Absolutely.
And as you practice andexperiment and encourage your
team to do the same thing,remember to ask for feedback.
So we've spoken about that aswell Ask for feedback and just
accept it as a gift.
So thank you so much everybodyfor showing up.
And, yeah, ping us with anyquestions you may have.
(44:53):
And, katie, thank you so much.
It's always such a pleasure.
Dr. Kelly Whelan (44:58):
Thanks.
I appreciate you asking.
It's been a joy to be here withyou today, Samantha.
Thanks so much.
Samantha Amit (45:05):
Bye everybody.
Hi Kelly, how are you today?
I am doing great, Sam.
I'm so happy to be with youtoday and your audience, so
thank you for having meAppreciate that Sure.
Samantha Amit (00:13):
So hello everybody.
Wherever you are, today we'regoing to be speaking about all
things coaching and how you canintegrate coaching into your
work, into with your teams andwith your external and internal
stakeholders.
So I'm Samantha Amit, welcome.
I met Kelly.
I'm a leadership coach and Imet Kelly actually during a team
(00:37):
coaching.
We studied together for twoyears team coaching and I've
also been on her podcast.
So, kelly, would you like tosay a few words about yourself?
Dr. Kelly Whelan (00:47):
Sure, sure.
Well, thanks again for havingme.
I am Kelly Whalen and I am thefounder of Bellum Leaders excuse
me which is a US based leaderand team development firm.
We do have different arms ofthe organization, so we do have
coaching and consulting.
We have a research arm, atraining arm, an events arm.
(01:09):
We also have the Conversationsfor Leaders in Teams podcast and
we are the publisher ofChristian Coaching Magazine.
So just delighted to be hereand talk around coaching today
with you.
Samantha Amit (01:24):
Fantastic.
So maybe I'm going to inviteeverybody just to take a breath.
Wherever you are, whetheryou're in the car, whether
you're sitting down, walking,wherever you are take a breath
and let's also invite somegratitude into the space.
Yeah, into the space, you know.
(01:44):
Welcome everybody, yeah.
So, as I said, I'm samantha metand I coach leaders in 30
different countries, and I findthat coaching um is the most
amazing tool that you can add toyour leadership toolbox, to
your leadership brand.
(02:05):
Just today, for example, I wasworking on, you know, with the
leader who wants to get apromotion, and so it's a
fantastic way really to open upand also to get fairer side and
to encourage people to be theirbest selves and encourage
(02:27):
yourself, encourage your team.
So, kelly, what do you think?
Should we start off with?
Talking a bit about listeningskills?
Where do you think we should go?
Dr. Kelly Whelan (02:36):
Sure, we can start wherever.
Wherever you want to go, I'llgo.
You know, as far as, aslistening skills, super
important to have and I thinkyou know, samantha, I think
everything we talk about heretoday, yes, we can take it into
the workplace, but it also istaken outside of the workplace
(02:58):
and into our homes and with ourfriends.
So, just as we're talking, Ithink, maybe think about not
just the workplace but more of aholistic when we talk about
like even listening, right, arewe listening?
Are we truly listening, and arewe listening to hear?
Samantha Amit (03:19):
Yeah, that's beautiful.
And even now, just noticewhat's going on for you wherever
you are.
Many of the times we aremultitasking.
So many of the times I workwith you know leaders, managers,
that are running virtualmeetings predominantly, and so
(03:40):
many of the people that I coachtell me that they struggle.
So many of the people that Icoach tell me that they struggle
.
They have multiple screens openand often you know messages
that are popping up and theythemselves are guilty the
managers themselves are guiltyof not fully listening in the
meeting.
So I think the biggest gift youcan give is your presence and I
(04:01):
just got goosebumps, and so youknow, being fully present and
really listening is, I think,one of the biggest gifts that
you can give to the people thatyou are working with today.
Dr. Kelly Whelan (04:14):
Yeah, and that goes back, you know, many times
you talk about executivepresence and really that active
listening and fully sitting inthat moment and listening to
your people is so imperative,but then that's vice versa too.
So how are our people reallytuning into us?
(04:36):
And a lot of that, you know, isaround communication and
understanding your people inorder to understand, you know,
are they focused, are they thatmultitasker?
And how can we help them kindof maybe sit in the pause to
open their ears and open theirhearts to what's coming?
Samantha Amit (05:00):
I love that, opening their hearts.
So I think that we need to rolemodel.
As managers, we do need a rolemodel being present and because
I work with a lot of engineers,sometimes they really need to.
You know, the brain sometimesdoesn't just switch.
If you're in the office andyou're working on your computer
(05:25):
and you are actually in personand somebody comes into your
office, it's not alwaysautomatic to being in the moment
is.
Yeah, I think that is one of thetop things that I would
(05:51):
recommend for people that arelistening to practice, because
when you truly listen, you candevelop that curiosity skill.
And when you develop thatcuriosity of really truly
becoming like a detective andbeing like really curious around
your team, then you can get toknow them.
(06:12):
Because that's what you weretalking about, like do you
really know your team?
And this way, just throughlistening, you can really get to
know them because you can pickup the subtle things.
Um, you know, they're like nine.
We learned at coaching school,like when I was studying around
I don't know, 16 years agothere's like nine different ways
of listening, and I'm surethey're more by now.
(06:33):
So I mean nine different waysof listening, it's, it's a lot
but it is.
Dr. Kelly Whelan (06:41):
You know it goes back to that intentionality
.
And so how are you and you andthe work you do with mindfulness
, I mean that's a perfect spacefor you to be helping.
You know, leaders and coachesreally unpack the mind piece of
it.
And you know, when you gooutside and listen, I'm only
(07:09):
going to be listening for birds,you know as simple as that, and
just trying to push outeverything else except birds.
And it's that intentionalityand practice, if you will.
So you start tuning your ear into what's important as well.
Samantha Amit (07:23):
Yeah, absolutely .
So I'm going to shift us a bitto talking about questioning and
how, as coaches, we usequestioning a lot different
kinds of questions, and how thatopens up the conversation, how,
actually, when you ask aquestion afterwards it also
(07:44):
requires you to listen to theanswer.
So introduce us a little bit tohow you think from your
experience, maybe with evencurrent teams you're coaching,
or you know the team leader oror somebody that you're coaching
one-on-one like what are younoticing about their leadership
(08:05):
style?
Because in this live, I want toalso, I want us to encourage
you know you to try new things.
That's also a big thing incoaching to try new things.
So how are you with yourquestioning?
What's your questioning like?
And I see we've already got aquestion here, so maybe, kelly,
(08:28):
you can have a look.
I actually know Brian.
Dr. Kelly Whelan (08:32):
So, yeah, I do this hard work and I think it
is great for leaders to be ableto ask for time and complete a
task or thought before givingthem the person in the
conversation your full attention.
Great comment, that's a greatcomment, brian.
Thank you for that.
It is giving that space and Ithink we'll probably talk about
(08:57):
psychological safety and trustat some point here.
And it is so imperative to yes,we need to know our people, but
, yes, we need to create thatspace for these things to happen
as well, and before we evenjump into all that but I'm sure
we'll get to that as far asquestions, it's truly important
(09:18):
to move from when we're thinkingabout a coaching leadership
style, if you will, to move fromalways that directive to more
collaborative.
I was coaching a leader goshprobably, I don't know eight or
nine years ago, and he used tocome into his sessions and say I
feel like they're daddy,they're always coming to me with
(09:41):
their problems and they want meto fix it.
And he was.
And so there was a shift,another mindset shift that
needed to happen there, withhelping this leader understand
that questions will prompt thatlearning and development and
growing your leaders when youstart asking what questions or
(10:03):
how questions, and it's trulyinviting your people into the
process of problem solving, soyou're not the one who is always
being directive and giving theanswers.
It's more having a conversationand figuring it out together
and helping the other personreally figure it out.
I mean, you're there to listen,having that active listening
(10:26):
and providing some questions toprompt their thinking.
But it was amazing when he madethat shift, that aha moment,
when he started practicing andagain I'm using that word
practice because coaching is apractice.
We are constantly trying newthings in our field, work, if
(10:47):
you will, in our workingenvironments and at home to
practice and see how they go.
Samantha Amit (10:55):
Yeah, absolutely .
So.
I really appreciate the callout to how you can empower and
grow your people and when you dothat, you become a multiplier.
And you know Liz Wiseman's bookMultipliers is huge.
And so if in your leadershipstyle and again I've got
(11:16):
goosebumps you're opening up,you're asking questions, you're
a multiplier If you come in withall the answers.
And you know, some managers,especially young managers,
sometimes think that if theydon't show up and actually you
know, show how smart they arethen they think that you know
(11:39):
their teams will think that theyhave basically these limiting
beliefs that they need to speakfirst, that they need to give
all the answers and when theydiscover and hopefully you know
people that are listening intous here, watching us, actually
are at that stage where they'reready to ask more questions, and
there are many different typesof questions you can ask.
Dr. Kelly Whelan (12:02):
Yeah, you can ask yeah, you know that, you
know when.
When you talk about the youngleaders, it also it reminds me
of the generations and even thebaby boomers who are in the
workplace.
They have always been verydirective and it can be very
difficult for these leaders tomake that shift into a more
(12:25):
coaching leadership style,because it's something that
they've always done and perhapsit's worked in the past for them
and so they continue to do that.
So I think it's regardless ofage, but it may be generational.
I think there's, there needs tobe that shift in that openness
with the practice of let's trythis and see what kind of result
(12:49):
we get.
That's different, especially ifwe don't like how something is
going, like the leader that Italked about for sure.
Samantha Amit (12:59):
So I want to give a practical example of
somebody that I'm coaching andwhat she's done is she's created
a template that she uses forone-on-ones with questions that
she, you know, she, uh, shelooked into and then she came up
with these questions.
And what she does is she helps,because some people like to
(13:21):
think so when the leader, whenthe team member, the direct
report, comes into theone-on-one, they already know
that they're going to bequestions, and what she's done
is she's flipped it around.
Usually she would be the firstone to speak and share, et
cetera.
Now what she does is she leansback and she offers and she
(13:41):
invites more the you know theteam member, the direct report,
to speak first, and she's doingthis now in meetings as well.
So it's like really, she'scoming to a new space of like
saying I believe in you, I trustyou, and like I want to hear
(14:02):
what you have to say, and that'salso a big part in coaching.
So now I'm shifting a bit.
We're going to still be withthe questions, but now a big
part of coaching is that as acoach, and when you bring a
coaching hat into yourleadership style, you're saying
to your direct reports I believein you and, as you mentioned,
(14:24):
kelly, what you said a fewminutes ago, you're saying to
the people that you're workingwith let's collaborate together.
We, together, can be so muchmore, and that's what a coaching
partnership is.
Together, we can be so muchmore, and that's what a coaching
partnership is.
Dr. Kelly Whelan (14:42):
Together, we can be so much more.
It is, and it's also how you'reshowing up, not just with your
words, but it's also youractions.
And so if you are a leader whois typically closed off, and
your body language is is showingthat you know, your arms
crossed and maybe not such anice facial expression and
(15:06):
sometimes that's just yournature it's important to be
thinking about that.
I was working with a youngmanager and he just couldn't
understand why people, just theyweren't warming up to him, and
so I was in observation mode andI noticed that arms were
(15:28):
crossed, quite a bit facialexpression there really wasn't
much smiling, there wasn't muchyou know, openness to him, and
so we really had to have thatconversation about this isn't,
yes, it's about you as a manager, as a leader, but it's more
about the people that you'reserving.
(15:48):
And how are you showing up inyour body language to help open
the door right, so they will belistening to you, so they will
be hearing you, so you cancollaborate together.
So I think that that's that'sreally important as well when
you're thinking about yourcoaching, and we as coaches have
(16:09):
to show up.
We're showing up present.
Our body language has to be acertain way.
We can't be closed off.
We want you to be open duringthe conversation, so the same is
true for leaders.
Samantha Amit (16:23):
Yeah, yeah.
So I'm going to come back towhat you said with the body
language, but I'm going to shifta little bit and then come back
to it.
So, and what I've just done, bythe way, is also coaching
competency, where you want toalways focus the conversation
(16:43):
but you want to align.
We do that a lot with teams.
You want to align with peopleyou're talking about.
So, because I'm switching alittle bit from what Kelly was
speaking about, what I'm doingnow is I'm just aligning with
you listening to me that I amgoing to be doing that and then
coming back to the body language.
So that's a good thing to do.
So, um, yeah, so it's reallyimportant to stretch yourself as
(17:10):
a leader, as a manager, andyou're doing that, I think, by
showing up and learning, becausewhen you learn, you can
practice new.
So what we do in the coachingspace, we're always empowering
the people that we're coachingto experiment and try new things
and stretch at least 15% out ofyour comfort zone, and it's not
(17:32):
comfortable.
So, and we're going to come backto that subject, but now I'm
shifting back how does thisconnect to the body language?
So, first of all, it connectsin a number of ways.
We were speaking a few minutesago around mindset, and your
mindset is going to impact onyour action, the actions you
(17:54):
choose.
So if you choose that you wantto come across as more open and
you've received feedback in your360 that you're a bit serious
or you're a bit closed so if youwant to stretch yourself, if
you want to put yourself into aplace, it's not going to be
comfortable if you're used tositting with your arms closed
(18:16):
and I'm just doing that on thescreen if anybody's listening.
If you're used to sitting withyour arms closed and I'm just
doing that on the screen ifanybody's listening, it's not
going to be easy, but you caneasily read up an article of how
can I show up with my bodylanguage to have a more open
style.
And this is true for anything.
You want to practice anything.
You want to practice everythingis out there on the internet,
(18:36):
so you Google it.
Practice.
Everything is out there on theinternet, so you Google it.
And then to be more coach-likemeans you stretch yourself 15%
out of your comfort zone, soit's not going to be comfortable
and that's what you want to dofor yourself and you want to do
it as well for your team, yourdirect reports, to help them
grow.
Dr. Kelly Whelan (18:56):
That's right.
I love that because it isimportant that growth but also
the practice right, becauseeverything we do and as leaders
we are always kind of not justticking the boxes but we're
saying what is the outcome andhow are we measuring that
outcome and how are wecontinually pushing the envelope
?
So if this works, so if now I'mnot crossing my my arms, that's
(19:21):
one piece of it.
Now maybe I'm working on myfacial expression and putting it
all together and, like you said, samantha, that could be out of
somebody's comfort zone whentheir whole life that's just
normal for them, and so I thinkit's it's.
We have to give ourselves grace.
We have to remember that thingsaren't always going to go
(19:44):
perfectly and it does take time.
But it's also about askingpeople, you know, and getting
that feedback, and feedback isanother piece of you know,
coaching and and helping peopleunderstand that.
You know, be vocal.
I'm trying to grow as a leader.
Can you help me and askwhatever question it is that you
(20:05):
want the answer to, but then beable to receive that
information in a way to help yougrow?
You may not agree with it, itmay make you uncomfortable, but
if you really do have thatmindset of I'm in this to
develop myself as a leader, thenjust just take that, hold on to
it and sit with it for a minute, if you need to, and then
(20:30):
what's your next step beyondthat to help you?
Samantha Amit (20:33):
Yeah, so I think this is a great place to you
know just like put the titlethat we're talking about
feedback.
Now, feedback is critical.
It's one of the best ways todevelop yourself and to develop
your team again, help them grow,and also to develop the
(20:56):
business.
And so, Kelly, what you justnamed is asking for feedback,
and so some companies that wework with we see that feedback
is part of the culture and soit's a good thing.
Where there is positivefeedback, we need to give five
times the amount of positivefeedback for every one
(21:18):
developmental or, let's say,criticism.
Okay, and um, this is also hardand difficult, as brian says
here.
All these, all thesecompetencies, they don't come
naturally to us.
If we're not in an environmentthat supports feedback, either
through a system, throughtemplate template, you know
through documents or through,you know, conversations, then
(21:43):
you as a leader, can startdeveloping it.
And by asking what Kelly justnamed, asking for feedback is
the best way actually to bringit in, because if you're just
going to expect it to happen, itdoesn't just happen.
If you're just going to expectit to happen, it doesn't just
happen If you don't ask for it.
Dr. Kelly Whelan (22:05):
people are nervous, for different reasons,
of giving feedback.
Yeah, and typically, samantha,people think of feedback as
negative.
Their body starts tensing up ifthey are going to be having a
feedback session and insteadlet's think of it as a gift.
(22:30):
It's a gift for ourselves, sowe can then have that
development and grow from it.
And to remember that a lot oftimes it's about the behavior or
the performance.
It's not about you as a person,it's about that behavior,
performance, and it could begood and it could be not so good
.
So we want to make sure that,as you said earlier, that we are
not just saying what's wrong,because everyone is unique.
(22:51):
Everybody has wonderfulstrengths and talents that
they're bringing into theworkplace and it's important to
recognize those, but then alsosee how we can use those to help
with our feedback and givingand receiving that, as well as
creating our performance and ourbehaviors to align with that,
but again, also with theorganizational goals or the team
(23:14):
goals or whatever your leaderand the goals that you have
established.
Make sure they're aligning.
Samantha Amit (23:24):
Right, right.
What I'm going to do is I'mgoing to actually take this
opportunity to bring in what youspoke about at the beginning,
that this call this live sessionis not only about you at work
and so how you could usefeedback at home.
Everybody needs positivereinforcement If you want to
(23:45):
start practicing giving positivefeedback, and it's really gold.
Look at the people around you,look at the people that you're
going to be meeting in a fewhours.
You know, maybe you're workingfrom home.
In between, you go and get aglass of water, or somebody
brings you something, someonebrings your coffee, and so it's
(24:06):
not just about saying thank youor well done.
Feedback is much more specific.
Around you know saying tosomebody, you know, you just
know that no, this is what Ineed in the morning, and you
know, just saying the rightthing to that person, honoring
them for that moment.
(24:27):
It just takes sometimes 30seconds to give specific
feedback, and it's not justpraise and it can really
strengthen relationships.
Dr. Kelly Whelan (24:38):
It sure can.
I think also an important pieceof feedback is really setting
the stage or the table for it.
Especially if it is going to bea conversation that you might
be going into it, or even theleader who will be giving
feedback, it might be a littlebit uncomfortable and really
(25:02):
understanding that again, it'snot about the person, it's about
whatever it is that you'regoing to be talking about.
But also the timing of it isimportant.
The environment that you'regoing to create, and that's not
just from a psychological safetyenvironment, but the actual
physical environment that you'regoing to create, and that's not
just from a psychologicalsafety environment, but the
actual physical environment thatyou're going to be in.
(25:23):
I mean, we typically don't wantto have these conversations,
especially if they'reuncomfortable conversations at
the water cooler in the hallwaywith everybody you know standing
around.
So setting the stage isimportant when we're talking
about feedback.
Samantha Amit (25:42):
Yeah.
So what I'd like to do is talka little bit about the
difference between, you know,having a style which is more
giving autonomy, in other wordsgiving space and lots of space
to your direct reports todevelop, as opposed to, you know
(26:03):
, micromanaging them.
And I see that and often, youknow, these polar opposites are
problematic.
And so if you, let's say, ifwe're talking about feedback and
you're giving developmentalfeedback, talking about feedback
and you're giving developmentalfeedback, so somebody's you
know, maybe, kelly, you canthink of a good example.
(26:24):
I'm just trying to think of anexample of developmental
feedback that we could give tosomebody.
Sometimes it's harsh, but let'ssay it's not harsh and you're
growing that person.
Sometimes they need nurturingand you can't just give them the
feedback and then leave themand expect them to just give
them the feedback and then leavethem and expect them to, you
know, just show up and whateverthey're doing in their style.
So, oh, I've got one, okay.
(26:45):
So I have this a lot of timesis that, you know, some people
are too direct in their approachso they come across as being
rude to some individuals.
So sometimes, especially inemails, because in emails or you
know, messages, text messagesif you don't take your time to
explain and you're not very goodat communication, so your
(27:08):
direct report will come acrossas being abrupt or being stern
or being disrespectful, and thetruth is the the problem you
know female or male is is notlike that at all, that they're
the nice.
I meet some of these people.
They're the nicest people andthey've been given feedback by
(27:28):
their manager that, um, you knowthey need to change their style
and so if you have somebodylike this that you want to coach
through because you want togive them this feedback, that
they need to change theircommunication style, it's so
important to develop them and tonurture them and know that it's
(27:51):
a journey.
So when we're coaching, youknow a team or in one-on-one,
it's a journey, there's an arc,it's not just about one
conversation and that's it.
You know a team or inone-on-one, it's a journey,
there's an arc, it's not justabout one conversation and
that's it, you know.
Move on.
Dr. Kelly Whelan (28:07):
Yes, you're absolutely right, and it reminds
me of a few years ago I workedwith one of the Bellum coaches,
because we know that coachesalways need coaches.
Right, it's important for us tohave a coach, because all good
coaches and all great coacheshave a coach, and this was
around emotional intelligenceand one of the things that I was
(28:32):
on the lower side was empathy,and part of that shows up in my
text messaging.
This is just a quick example.
So if I'm thinking of something, I shoot off the text and I had
to learn how to preempt that.
(28:52):
Preempt the thought of justshooting it off and somebody
just receiving the text from mewith just this message right?
Yeah, it seems cold sometimes Ihad to learn how to be a little
more warm and fuzzy at thebeginning and be able to have a
text message that said you know,hello, how are you?
(29:14):
I hope everything's, you know,going well, and here's my
thought.
But it took me, and I'm still awork in practice, and you are
too, I'm sure, with whatever itis that you're working on.
But we have to have thatself-awareness and then we have
to decide how are we going tohelp ourselves?
Have that action plan, if youwill, based on the feedback that
(29:40):
we've received.
Samantha Amit (29:42):
Right, right.
So what this is, you know.
First, I'm not that too.
I'm very results orientated,and that's why mindfulness for
me has been a savior, becauseit's helped me to enjoy the
journey, because I was soresults orientated that I was
always like, first of allrushing to the outcome, not
enjoying the journey.
(30:03):
And then I get to the outcome,you enjoy success for like I
don't know one minute, and thenyou're on to your next goal come
.
You enjoy success for like Idon't know one minute, and then
you're on to your next goal.
And so I often found myselfalso sending off messages and
then realizing, oh my god, thisperson's you know father's in
hospital.
I didn't even ask, you know how.
Like, uh, cold of me anyway.
So the thing is, when you know,obviously, when you know your
(30:27):
team, well, they know you and soyou can actually it's much
easier within your team to beyourself and to be like not have
any fuzziness or warmth,because you know, if you know
the person and they know you,then you know, especially if
there's trust there and you'vebuilt a strong relationship
(30:50):
there, then you can actually getaway with a lot of things
because there's respect there,there's trust.
When you're building that withstakeholders that don't interact
with you on a day-to-day basis,it's so important to put the
extra in.
To put the extra in or tounderstand, like, what is this
(31:11):
person like?
Are they similar to me?
Do they need more?
You know, now I'm going toshift again.
Some people need more detail,some people need more strategy,
and so being more coach likemeans adapting yourself to the
person in front of you and um inorder to work better together.
(31:35):
So it doesn't mean you have tocompletely adapt, but it is
really important to you know,find that way of um of
communicating that's best forboth of you.
Dr. Kelly Whelan (31:49):
And that takes work.
It takes work to understandyour people, but the value and
the benefits are going tosurpass the time that it's going
to take you to get to know yourpeople.
I mean just even knowing theirname.
Calling them by name I meansimple things like that mean so
(32:10):
much to a person.
It means that you see them, itmeans that you respect them when
you call them by name somethingas simple as that.
And many times we're just,we're just talking and they know
that we know their name.
But when you actually say, whenI'm calling you Samantha or
you're calling me Kelly, you arerecognizing me and that is
(32:32):
important for that relationship.
Samantha Amit (32:35):
Yeah, yeah.
So what you're referring tosometimes is well, I'm picking
this up Sometimes the simplestthings we actually could be
using and we don't think aboutit.
And I'm going to shift us again, if it's okay, on a similar
subject, but to meetings,because we're all in a lot of
(32:57):
meetings and how can we get themost out of our meetings?
So I want to start off with thecommunication piece and
creating connection.
But then there's lots that wecan cover in the subject of
meetings, because a lot ofpeople suffer from meetings and
they're not being run well, andso bringing more coaching
qualities into a meeting couldbe really good.
(33:18):
So this is where we're going tobe segwaying into.
But just before that, I want tosay that something also that's
so simple Doesn't always happen.
So when you're running a virtualmeeting, like a virtual team
meeting, it's not always obviousif you're not a people person.
If you're not a people personand you're more results and
(33:42):
outcome orientated let's sayyou've got more of a science
mind then what may happen invirtual meetings if, if you have
a team, is you may jump intothe agenda and you may jump into
, you know, meeting stuff likeoutcome stuff, goal stuff,
result stuff, and it's soimportant to have like a small
(34:05):
connection exercise and that maybe part of your leadership
style.
That may be part of yourleadership style, it may be part
of your company style, but ifyou're listening and it's not
and you are just jumpingstraight into the data, please
just take this as something toconsider to find a way to
connect with the people that areon the call and that you're
(34:30):
going to need to figure out.
Dr. Kelly Whelan (34:32):
Yeah, that check-in piece I feel is so
imperative when I'm working withteams.
It's allowing not just me as acoach or you as a leader, to
understand how your team isshowing up in that moment, but
it's also about the team membersunderstanding what's happening,
(34:52):
how they're showing up.
And I recently met with a teamthat's just a couple weeks ago
and in our check-in there weresome pretty heavy words.
They were just to have one wordwith how they're showing up.
There were some pretty heavywords that were showing up.
So it's not that everybody'sgoing to be coming.
You know all joyful to ameeting.
You know, maybe somethinghappened just before that
(35:15):
meeting and it may mean that itgets talked about within that
session.
It may be that following thatsession, you're doing a check-in
with the person to see howthey're doing, but that's super
important at the onset before,like you said, you jump into the
task at hand.
Samantha Amit (35:37):
Yeah.
So if you want to be morecoach-like in your leadership
style, that means reallybringing in the awareness to
what's going on around you,what's going on with your team,
how are they?
And, if you know, as Kelly andI are team coaches, a big part
(35:58):
of team coaching is creatingcollaboration and support within
the team, so that the teammembers are not working in silos
but they are supporting eachother.
And that can happen on a lot ofdifferent levels, and one of
them Kelly's just spoken aboutnow.
So what she?
What she said, is that ifsomebody names and there's a,
(36:20):
you know, an exercise that BreneBrown talks about that you just
name your emotion, you nameyour emotion and you put that in
the chat.
It could be something else, butthat way you have a pulse and
know what's going on with peoplearound you.
And this way it doesn'tnecessarily need to be spoken
about in the team meeting, butat least you can be sure that
(36:42):
some of the team members aregoing to check in with that
person if they're saying they'refeeling tired or they say
they're feeling, you know, alittle bit low.
Today I have an exercise that,again, I like to use because I
work with a lot of people in thecyber space, and so for them
it's easy to like write a numberfrom 1 to 10, where 1 is low
(37:06):
and 10 is high.
What's your energy like rightnow?
And so they put in from 1 to 10, where one is low and 10 is
high.
What's your energy like rightnow?
And so they put in from one to10 in, and that's just so that
you can get a pulse as a leader.
And it's something so simpleand it takes 30 seconds.
And then after that again, ifsomebody's written a five or
four, you're definitely gonna bechecking in on them and you can
(37:27):
be sure that some of the teammembers are gonna check in on
them, and you can be sure thatsome of the team members are
going to check in on them.
And that way you really reallygrow that team camaraderie, the
team collaboration.
You're going to be the highperforming team in the company.
Dr. Kelly Whelan (37:42):
That's what we want.
We definitely want.
It's not just around that highperformance, it's also that
value right?
So it's you're a highperforming team, which means
you're adding value to theorganization because of how
you're operating collectively,for sure.
Samantha Amit (37:59):
All right, all right, so is it.
What else do we want to talkabout in meetings?
Dr. Kelly Whelan (38:08):
Let's see.
Well, I mean in team coaching,when we're sitting in meetings,
we are really being able to, youknow, assess there could be
that there's a lot ofdisruptions and you know team
coaches if you have a team coach, come into your meeting, we're
(38:29):
going to be really taking a peekat that and we may bring it up.
It depends on what theagreement is with the team and
how we're bringing that into theteam meeting.
But it may be that we're justaware of it and we'll talk with
the team at a later time aroundit.
But I think to have effectivemeetings, everybody has to have
(38:49):
not just a seat at the table buta voice at the table and they
have to be comfortable beingable to bring their voice out
and be speaking withoutdisruption, being very
respectful in meetings for sure.
Samantha Amit (39:04):
Right, right.
So that could be what we'recalling team coaching, a team
norm, and I'm always encouragingleaders to think what are the
values that you want to bringinto your team and what are the
team norms?
Team norms are like do's anddon'ts.
Those are agreements that youmake with your team and so like
(39:25):
an agreement could be because Ijust had this, now that you know
, a team leader said that twopeople were late for the meeting
and so the meeting started 15minutes late.
Now you can be sure that somepeople are going to see that as
disrespectful.
They're going to be discouraged.
I mean, you know, time isimportant for some people.
(39:45):
So having a team norm that weshow up on time, you know, and
if not, then you know you have away to handle it.
So just think about your teamnorms and your team values and
what you want to bring in.
That's like the flavor thatyou're bringing, and this could
be something that you can talkabout also in a team meeting.
(40:08):
So what I want to do now becauseI'm just noticing that we're
almost at the end of our time,but I want to quickly throw in
something else before we wrap upand maybe we can summarize a
little bit.
So I want to just talk aboutthe structure of a meeting,
because I often observe, as ateam coach, I observe meetings
and what I saw, you know withyou know, somebody that I'm
(40:29):
coaching's a.
She's a business owner in theprofessional services space, so
she has a great check-in at thebeginning and then she also has
like a really good discussionaround what learnings you know
learnings, uh, planning, um, andthen what happens is what
(40:49):
happened I saw a couple of timesis they didn't have time to
check out.
So you have a check-in in thebeginning, which is the
connection piece.
You have whatever needs tohappen, the agenda, and then the
ending is also important, whatneeds to happen at the end?
Because, like when you'rewriting an essay or you, you
know there's a beginning, amiddle and an end, and this is
(41:11):
also in a coaching conversation.
It's the same.
So think about how you want toend your meetings and if you
have an ending or everybody justrushes out and you don't always
finish the meeting.
So what I'd like to encourageyou to do, because meetings are
so important, first of all, youknow they should be focused.
So think of how you show up as,how you're creating that focus
(41:35):
in the meeting and then see thatyou've got, you know, this
check-in, the middle piece,which is like the real heart we
call it the heart of thecoaching, but the heart of the
meeting and then you've got, youknow, the checkout, which is
what are the outcomes that youwant to leave with.
Dr. Kelly Whelan (41:51):
Yes, and you know the agenda has to be
intentional, like you're saying.
I have sat in on some meetingsthat were three hours long
because that's how they didthings.
Now could that have beencondensed Absolutely.
So there are ways to do thatthat.
So if you think that you haveto have this, this long meeting,
(42:13):
let's just see how can wecondense it and still have
really good outcomes from that.
Because people they're going toget tired, their brains are
going to stop working, they arenot going to be as engaged if
you have that intentional agendawith a time span that is
reasonable for you to get thework done.
Samantha Amit (42:34):
Yeah, absolutely so.
If you have somebody that'sreally good with time management
and organized management in theteam, you could nominate them
and ask them if they want to bethe timekeeper, so that you can
say you know you have that.
That could be a team norm that10 minutes before we finish, or
15 minutes before we finish thetime, people will say, hey, it's
(42:56):
time to start wrapping up yes,absolutely yeah, I love it yeah.
So let us start wrapping up inthese couple of minutes that we
have left.
Um, let's just go over a littlebit of what we spoke about.
Um, so I'm going to throw in afew things and you can throw in
(43:17):
a few things.
The piece that for me is reallyimportant is, uh, you know,
being intentional.
We've spoken about that a lot.
So it starts with your mindsetand what you as a leader okay,
as a manager, as a leader, evenif you're not a manager, you can
still be a leader.
A leader is anybody that isinfluential, that's showing up,
(43:39):
that has followers.
So think about what you want.
Think about how you want toshow up, what your attitude is
and how that's going to show upin your action, as Kelly was
talking about.
So how that's going to show upin your body language, how it's
going to show up what yourattitude is and how that's going
to show up in your action, asKelly was talking about.
So how that's going to show upin your body language, how it's
going to show up in the way youcommunicate, and then check are
you getting the desired outcome?
Dr. Kelly Whelan (43:59):
That's right, yeah, and for me, I think the
message around everything thatyou said and everything we
talked about today is topractice, practice, practice,
practice.
Be okay, not being perfect,because it's not about
perfection and what you'retrying or you know what the
outcome is.
It's really about how are yourising into excellence, so then
(44:22):
you can be that high performerthat had high add, high value to
your organization as you are,you know, growing in your
leadership.
Samantha Amit (44:32):
Absolutely.
And as you practice andexperiment and encourage your
team to do the same thing,remember to ask for feedback.
So we've spoken about that aswell Ask for feedback and just
accept it as a gift.
So thank you so much everybodyfor showing up.
And, yeah, ping us with anyquestions you may have.
(44:53):
And, katie, thank you so much.
It's always such a pleasure.
Dr. Kelly Whelan (44:58):
Thanks.
I appreciate you asking.
It's been a joy to be here withyou today, Samantha.
Thanks so much.
Samantha Amit (45:05):
Bye everybody.
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