September 10, 2024 • 33 mins
In this episode, I'm chatting with author Lisa Gerardy about her upcoming memoir, "Chasing Normal." Together, we uncover her journey of courage and resilience as she bravely shares her childhood experiences of sexual abuse. This honest conversation reveals the strength it took to write and share her story with the world.
We discuss Lisa's complex relationship with her mother, who, despite her love, couldn't protect her from the abuse. We explore the lasting impact of this trauma on Lisa's life and relationships and acknowledge the harmful societal stigmas and victim-blaming attitudes she's encountered. Her journey to break free from these patterns is both inspiring and empowering.
Remarkably, Lisa used humor as a coping mechanism, a testament to the strength of the human spirit in the face of unimaginable trauma. "Chasing Normal" looks at one woman's extraordinary journey to reclaim her story and redefine her sense of normalcy. Join us as we explore the complexities of trauma, survival, and the incredible power of the human spirit.
Lisa Gerardy is a proud member of the gig economy, teaching college writing at three universities online. When she is not trying to detect AI and correct apostrophe errors, she is sharing her cringe-worthy childhood with complete strangers online. Her soon-to-be-published memoir is called Chasing Normal: Finding Love After Surviving Physical and Emotional Abuse. Lisa lives in Phoenix with her long-suffering husband and cherishes visits from her son who lives too far away. She accepts love, slobber, and many bruises from her Great Danes in her spare time.
https://lisagerardy.substack.com/
https://lisagerardywriter.com/
https://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=100004146033472
https://www.instagram.com/chasingnormal51/
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Kristen Daukas (00:00):
Hey friends, it's Kristen daukas, today's
show. I just wanted to give youa little heads up that this
episode contains sensitivematerials such as abuse and
sexual abuse that may beupsetting to some. With that
said, let's get on with today'sshow. Welcome to Conversations
(00:21):
on the rocks, the podcast wherethe drink is strong and the
stories are stronger. I'm yourhost, Kristen daukas, and this
isn't your average chat fest.
Here. Real people spill the teaalongside their favorite drinks,
from the hilarious to the heartwrenching, each episode a wild
card. You'll laugh, you may cry,but you'll definitely learn
something new. So grab whatever,what's your whistle and buckle
(00:41):
up. It's time to dive into theraw, the real and the
ridiculously human. Let's getthis chat party started. Hey
everybody, it's Kristen, and youare listening to the newest
episode of conversations on therocks, the podcast that's as
random as the Tumbleweed thatgoes through my head on a hot
(01:01):
summer day, and I have an authorwith me today. It's my first
author, and I am actually anauthor, kinda I did a
compilation, compilation so I ampublished. I can walk around and
say I am a published author, butLisa Girardi, who is my guest
today, is a bona fide author,like she's been writing her book
(01:25):
now, chasing normal for it'sbeen a hot minute, hasn't it?
It's been a year.
Unknown (01:33):
Yeah, well, it's been, like, a decade since I first
started it. And then, you know,it's, it's a memoir, so I kind
of be all gung ho, and then Ilike, I don't want to think
about this, you know, because mychildhood wasn't like a downy
fabric softener commercial oranything. It was, you know,
different. So it's
Kristen Daukas (01:52):
hard. Yeah, I think we were chat chatting
earlier today, and I told youI've read half of it already,
which I still owe you a reviewfor Amazon so I can be a
published author again. But it'san intense topic. Do you want to
talk about it a little bit?
Unknown (02:08):
I mean, sure, I don't know. I
Kristen Daukas (02:10):
mean, I granted, it's in the book, but, you know,
right, it's in the
Unknown (02:13):
book I was so it's been, it's always been my normal
so I can talk about this veryeasily. And other people are
like, I almost titled Thememoir, making people cringe
because, you know, like, I'll bein a situation like a book club,
and people are like, Oh, Iremember when my grandma made
cookies and I'm there. Like, Iremember when I went to my
(02:34):
grandma to get help because mystep uncle was molesting me, and
she told me, We don't talk aboutthat, you know. And everybody's
like, and to me, it's like that,you know, it is what it is. But
people hear that and they'relike, Oh, wow.
Kristen Daukas (02:48):
Well, it's a very it's a hard topic that is
very real, but people don't wantto talk about it because it
makes them uncomfortable, right?
And it is a conversation thatneeds to happen a little bit
more often, because you and Iare the same. We're both Gen
Xers, so we're in the same, youknow, I don't call it age
(03:08):
anymore. We're at the same gamelevel. And you're right back
then, not, you know, thank God,nothing like that ever happened
to me. How? Yeah, exactly. But,you know, it's it. That was the
general, oh, we don't talk aboutthat and, yeah, it, you know, it
still happens. These situationsstill happen. However, I'm
(03:29):
hoping that as a society, youknow, we take it a lot more
seriously now, whether it's, youknow, assault of a child or
assault in general, it's not somuch of the it's his word, their
word against your word, becausethere's a lot of that. It's like
the thing that the big viralthing a couple of months ago.
(03:52):
Remember what the bear or likejust last month? Yes, would you
rather be alone with a man or abear? And all these women and
we're listing off the thingsthat they gotta be alone with a
bear, right,
Unknown (04:03):
right? Yeah, that's
Kristen Daukas (04:05):
sad that we're still in that kind of a
situation, yeah, as a society.
So what made you you said you'vebeen doing it for about 10
years. You've lived with it yourentire life, so over 50 years.
And what was, what? What madeyou finally go, I'm putting this
down on paper. I am going topublish this. I am going to put
out my memoir. You know,
Unknown (04:28):
a couple of things.
Getting involved with thenonfiction authors association
was very motivating. And Iwatched, I forget the name of
the movie, but I watched a movieon TV where she was writing
about being abused, and she wasalways holding off on it, and
then someone told her, right,like no one is going to read it.
And so then I started doingthat. Do you know what I'm
(04:50):
talking about? I know
Kristen Daukas (04:52):
what you're talking about, but I can't
remember the name it was that,that little piece that you just
said right there,
Unknown (04:57):
right like no one's going to read it. So and that
was always my, you know, fear.
And then, to be honest, mymother died in 2019 and I felt
more liberated to write becauseshe is, I don't know what planet
she lived on during those years,but it certainly wasn't the same
one I'm on, because herrecollection is very different.
(05:18):
How
Kristen Daukas (05:20):
was your relationship with your mom as an
adult? It
Unknown (05:24):
had stages, so I had to kind of divide her into two
people, then Mom and now mom.
She got better as I got older,and my stepdad, even though he
was a bigot and whatever waslike the best man she brought
into our life, and he told her,you know, stop hitting her. Go
easy on her. She's a good kid.
(05:47):
So sorry. My younger years, like20s, I was okay with her, you
know, she'd still give me moneybuy me things for my apartment.
But as I got older and as my songot older, I got angrier because
I love my son so much, Icouldn't understand how she did
(06:09):
not do anything when I told herabout sexual abuse she did
nothing, and how she could talkthe way she talked to me and hit
me and stuff, you know, like. Soit got worse, and then I would
just, I felt bad for her,because as she got older, my
brother had, like, he was offthe face of the earth. We didn't
know where he was, so I was allshe had. So, you know, my
(06:32):
husband used to say, I don'tunderstand why you still talk to
her. And the thing was, like,guilt, I guess, like I'm all she
has. You know, we don't have avery big family. That's
Kristen Daukas (06:43):
says a lot about you. That says a lot you're in
your mom, she was, she wassingle, right? She was a single,
working mom for a lot of years.
When was it that your stepdadcame into the picture?
Unknown (06:56):
Um, she met him when I was 13, when I was in eighth
grade.
Kristen Daukas (07:00):
So as a single working mother, do you feel, or
do you think that she poo pooedit because she was having to
rely on the perpetrators, and ifshe were to, and I'm not
justifying it. Please don't takethat at all. And if she were to
(07:23):
say something, then I'm gonna bekind of crazier than the gravy
train. The help the gravy trainthat she had would be gone, or
it could turn around, and thenwhatever abuse was was on her.
And you know which it's stilljust a shitty, shitty thing to
do, because I will. There's onlyfive people in the world that I
would go to jail for, and threeof those are my children, and it
(07:47):
is and you know, granted, somedays I feel like I need to go to
jail because of them. But youknow that is as a mother. And
you know this, you're a momyourself. I mean, did you ever
ask her why?
Unknown (08:01):
No, I never really talked much about it as an
adult. The one time there wasone time I saw her have, like,
guilt or feelings about it, I inmy early 20s, is when my GI
system started really buggingme, and I was I prepped and I
was supposed to have a lower GI,which is a barium enema. Fun,
(08:24):
fun time.
Kristen Daukas (08:26):
This town needs an enema. Yeah, that's my
favorite line from Batman.
Unknown (08:33):
So she took me to the hospital to have this test only
they they do not at least 20years ago, or when, no, this was
30 years ago. I'm lying tomyself about my age. They did
not knock me out or anything.
And I they, they did not evenget the thing there. And I was
hyperventilating, and I jumpedoff the the gurney, or whatever.
(08:56):
It's not a gurney, whatever thebench is they put you on. And I
went back to where my mom waswaiting, and I was
hyperventilating and crying, andshe got mad at not herself,
really, but she was like, youknow, effing Norman. My step
uncle was Norman, which is aterrible name. Sorry to all the
(09:17):
Normans out there, but that namejust norms. Terrible name,
Psycho is extra scary for being,you know, so she did, like, show
some feelings about it, but shenever really, I don't know. I
don't know if, if she had theability to be a better thinker
and communicator. I don't know.
Kristen Daukas (09:41):
I have to believe that in some way, that
the guilt she felt had to carryover. And I just have to, in my
mom heart, I have to, you know,she knew what it was, that it
wasn't right. So I have to hopeand believe that. You know. So
she didn't talk about it, sheavoided it, but at the same
(10:02):
time, she maybe internallyacknowledged the fact that what
she did was really awful ordidn't prevent what was the most
challenging part. Do you thinkabout writing about this,
Unknown (10:13):
sharing, you know, it's it's weird, but like you said,
We're Gen X, so my, my arc, Iguess, is, you know, the abuse
happen, and then I had horriblerelationships, and then I found
Chris. So the horriblerelationships, I internally slut
shame myself. I was like, wow, Iwas a big old slut, you know. So
(10:35):
that was tough. It was tough tobe honest, and I'm not even
including everything like thisis my best version of honest
about my dating life, and Idon't have shame over being
sexually abused because I didn'tdo that. That wasn't my fault.
But then the day
Kristen Daukas (10:53):
you weren't wearing that little princess
dress, I
Unknown (10:57):
wasn't. I never understood why people didn't
believe me or do anything,because this was in the 70s,
right? It's not like we had theinternet. How do I know what a
what male genitalia looks like?
You know, I didn't have accessto anything. So why wouldn't
Kristen Daukas (11:12):
you believe a little kid? Because they didn't
want to, they didn't want tohave to do anything about it.
That's right, that's going toget that ish is going to get
ugly. And, you know, I, I'veknown, unfortunately, I've known
women and young ladies who havewho've dealt with sexual assault
older and even in the 21stcentury, there's still that,
(11:34):
well, what were you doing? Whatwere what were you wearing? Did
you were you drinking? I'm like,I remember telling my girls,
like, I don't care if you arestanding Buck ass naked, holding
a 12 pack of beer, and no is no,and that is it. And I will come
after somebody if that is thecase. But a lot of times too, it
(11:59):
doesn't, these guys get awaywith it, or these people get
away with it, because ourjudicial system is set up so
that the victim is victimizedtwice, right?
Unknown (12:12):
So when I lived in Ohio, I was on a grand jury,
which was interesting. I'm anosy person. I actually like
jury duty, but they saved thesexual assaults for after lunch.
So it was always, you know,troubling. And this young woman
came in, you know, anacquaintance had raped her, had
kidnapped her and raped her,actually had kept her against
(12:32):
her will. And usually theperpetrator doesn't come in to
give testimony, but he did, hedid, and he was just all
handsome and denying everythingand like, oh, it was consensual,
because DNA evidence doesn'tnail them. They can just say it
was consensual, right? So whatreally angered me about the
situation is the three womensitting across the table from me
(12:55):
on the jury who are like, Well,you said she was a dancer. Yeah,
because she was a dancer, shedeserved to be kidnapped and
taken like he offered her a ridehome, and he did not let her get
out of the car, took her to hishouse, tied her up the whole
nine yards, and no, but she's adancer, right, so
Kristen Daukas (13:17):
that makes it okay, yeah,
Unknown (13:19):
yeah. I don't know what happened with that case, but I
don't I wouldn't be surprised ifhe was not found not guilty of
Kristen Daukas (13:26):
probably because she was a dancer. Well, that's
another thing. This is totallyoff subject, but kind of on
topic, which is the whole whysex workers, the whole sex work
thing just needs to belegalized. Yeah. Yeah. I mean to
take away, if we can startgetting rid of the stigma and
the connotation behind some ofthese things, you know, these,
(13:48):
these people, I won't just saylady, you know, young ladies, or
girls, or whatever, they're justtrying to make a living. They
should be safe. They should besafe. But that's the reason why
a lot of them, unfortunately,then run down the addict path
that goes with it. What aboutyour son and what about Chris?
How did they, I mean, how didtalk a little bit about how?
(14:12):
Because, again, very sensitivetopic, right? Not only is it a
sensitive topic, but now it's mymom and my wife having to go
through that. How did, how did,how did that work? Pan not pan
out. But, you know, well, howwas that,
Unknown (14:27):
since that happened to me, and I've always been pretty
open with my son at whateverage, like, whatever level he
could handle, you know, I haveasked him his entire life if
anybody has touched himinappropriately. He's 27 I still
do, because he once told hisfriend, like, gosh, if something
happened to me, I wouldn't tellmy mom, because she'd be in
(14:49):
jail. So I asked him all thetime, now, are you sure? Are you
just not telling me because youknow I'll go kill him or so he
he's known his whole life. I didsend them the. First draft of my
book, and Chris, he doesn't wantto read it because of the dating
stuff. And there's a, you know,boyfriend in college that was
(15:11):
abusive to me, but we hadwonderful sex, so you know,
that's kind of he doesn't wantto hear it. And my son started
reading it, and he texted me,said, Mom, I'm sure this is
going to be a page turner, butyou're my mom, so it's hard for
them to read.
Kristen Daukas (15:28):
But how were they through the process? I'm
sure they were supportive,right? Oh, definitely,
Unknown (15:32):
definitely, yeah, yeah.
And did you, were
Kristen Daukas (15:35):
you, were you able to work through some of
those things with them? I mean,I mean, you're a very open and
honest person, I can't see everthat you would have not been
open and honest and transparentwith them about the situation.
So really, it's no surprise,except for the fact that you're
just writing a 250 page, 300page book, right,
Unknown (15:53):
right? Yeah, no, I've always been open with them and
medical things like Kristendaukas office, because she
wanted to do a uterine biopsy.
And I somebody, they attemptedthat on me before, and I said,
No, you have to knock me out anyanything deep orifice like that.
(16:14):
I have to be unconscious becauseit's weird. There's a book I
think the body remembers, orsomething like that. I have it
over there. But, um, even thoughI go in to these situations
knowing that they are not thereto hurt me, my body just goes
nuts if we're if we're doinganything rectal or beyond the
(16:35):
cervix, you know, it's almostlike muscle memory, yeah, yeah.
So he's seen me do that, like,and then they had to schedule a
DNC because I was like, No, Ineed to you are not doing that?
Kristen Daukas (16:50):
You? I mean, we've known each other for a
long time. We kind of grew up inthe blogging world together, and
your sense of humor has alwaysbeen a key piece of I mean,
you're funny, you're funny asshit.
Unknown (17:03):
Shit can be unfunny too, though it sure
Kristen Daukas (17:05):
can, but yours is funny. Do you think, you
know, it is very true that, youknow humor sometimes hides our
trauma, right? That's how wedeal with things. Do you think,
and I, you know, I'm a prettypunny and, you know, witty kind
of person too. I'm not. I don'ttake a lot of things very
seriously. And I know sometimesthat that's, you know, it's
(17:26):
easier to deal with these thingswith humor. Do you think that
that? Let me ask you this way,were you the little comic when
you were young? Oh, yeah. Soyou've all Do you think it's
always though, been kind of away to not have to deal with the
demons face on it's easier todeal with them.
Unknown (17:45):
Definitely, when I first realized I was funny, was
eighth grade. I had moved to anew school before my mom met
John, and my old school was verytough, like hood school, but the
boundaries changed. I got tothis new school, and it's all
these people, I don't know, andI just started cracking jokes.
(18:06):
And then all of a sudden, I, youknow, was in with the preps. And
so I thought, wow, that's, youknow, it's good that I'm funny.
And then the first time John metme, he had us to that we lived
in the same apartment buildingas he did, and he had us to his
apartment for dinner. And I wasjust, you know, my mom had dated
rod for seven years. Who she gotolder, didn't exist. She's like,
(18:29):
I never dated when Lisa waslittle. Like, okay, and he was
horrible. So I, you know, like,oh, here we go again. Janet's
picked out another man. Let me,you know, get rid of them. And I
was just tearing into him,because I can really hurt people
with my words. It's, it's both agood thing and a bad thing
(18:49):
sometimes.
Kristen Daukas (18:50):
And no, I understand that, believe me. And
Unknown (18:54):
he just, he laughed and laughed, and he goes, you got
that he was much older than mymom. He's like, You got the gift
of gab kid. He says, You remindme of Joan Rivers. And I was
like, who's Joan Rivers? Youdon't know who's Italian too.
You don't know who Joan Riversis. And he got me the album for
Christmas, one of her album,young people, the vinyl, the
(19:14):
vinyl before, yeah, so, yeah. Hegot me into basically, and then
I started doing comedy, youknow, like, eight years later, I
would say, when
Kristen Daukas (19:25):
did you finally break out? Break out. Like, when
did you, like, break out fromyour mom. How old were you? Oh,
like, when did you leave to goout on your own? Did you go to
college? Did
Unknown (19:35):
you go to college? I did so my mom made me. I had the
boyfriend that nobody liked. Ididn't want to go away to
college. I'm not a partier. I'mI like to read, but I got into
Florida State, and she made me,made me go. She's like, No,
you're going. I'm like, but Icould go to community college
(19:58):
and it's right here. And they'relike, No. And. Plus my stepdad
was so much older, he'd raisedhis kid, so he wanted me out. So
17, I drove nine hours toFlorida State in my Chevy
Chevette. But then I reallyhated it, so the next year, I
moved back in with them and wentto school locally. But then when
I was 22 my stepdad was likestarting he's like taking me to
(20:22):
look at apartments that are interrible places, but you know
that I could afford. So I movedin with the man who is now my ex
husband, because they wanted meout and you know he had room. So
I just moved in with him, and Itell my son now, you know, you
wouldn't be here if my parentswere nicer,
Kristen Daukas (20:44):
because he's from your first marriage. Oh,
yeah, yeah.
Unknown (20:47):
But he, he gets along with Chris better, I would say.
Kristen Daukas (20:52):
But isn't it kind of interesting, though, had
you not had a differentapproach, or some, you know,
just a different mindset havinglived through that, how easy it
would have been for you to fallinto the same trap that your mom
did.
Unknown (21:08):
I did repeat some of her behavior. I mean, I, you
know, have divorce. I I did hitSergio when he was younger. I
think when he was about eight iswhen I, I met Chris, and I was
just like, I need to learn howto be a parent. I can't, you
know, I can't hit him. That'sjust not helpful. And he's so
(21:29):
smart, even as a little kid,that helped me to be able to
talk to him instead of lose myshit, right? So I did have a
therapist. When I was goingthrough my divorce, I went to a
therapist, and, like I said, Inever thought really much about
how old I was when I was abused.
I was two, and she said, howthat? She said, That's profound
abuse. How are you not on acorner right now? And I just
(21:52):
said, because I don't want tobe, I don't
Kristen Daukas (21:56):
know it's a it's a good testament to your strong
will, because I can totally, Imean, when I went through my
divorce, I did a lot of selfwork, right? Because you have
to, and I didn't necessarilywant to go to a therapist, so I
said, Okay, well, I'm gonnaread. And boy, did I learn a lot
about myself and my behaviors.
Like, you know, I was, I was,you know, we were both latchkey
(22:20):
kids, but I was the latchkeykid. And, you know, I couldn't
understand why I kept chasingafter unemotionally, emotionally
unavailable people, and that Iwas an emotionally unavailable
person. But why am I anemotionally unavailable person?
Because I got no emotion at homekind of thing. And it's like,
once you start going throughthis, and you start, and then
you get to the point that, untilyou work on yourself, you're
going to keep chasing that.
(22:42):
You're going to keep chasingwhether it's mommy issues or
daddy issues. You're going tokeep trying to for me, it was,
you know, my stepdad. I couldnever, I was never good enough
for him, and if I was, he didn'tlet me know. It was always, You
could do this better. You coulddo that better. So I was always
in my entire life. And you know,in my dating life, in my
(23:03):
marriage life, in my postmarriage life, I was always
trying to prove that I wasworthy, and because I was trying
to prove it to the wrong people.
So, I mean, we were destined torepeat these patterns until we
finally go, okay, until we canname it right. Once you can name
it, then you're like, oh, okay,now, now, let's get our ish
(23:24):
together, and let's, let's startfrom here, right? I came into
that naming thing a couple ofyears ago. What years? This is
2024, so my youngest moved outto of the house like so the
beginning of empty nesting. AndI was so it was, I didn't put a
name to it, but I was, like, acouple of months later, I was
(23:46):
like, What is wrong with me?
Like, I'm just like, meh. Like,I don't want to do this. I don't
want to do that. And it finallyclicked on me that I was
depressed, yeah, oh yeah. That,that huge piece of my life, of
being an active mother, anactive parent, was done. And
once I put, once I put the onceI was able to label it, then I
(24:09):
was able to fix it.
Unknown (24:11):
Yeah, no, that does help, um, with relationships, a
therapist I saw, um, before Ieven married my ex husband,
which I shouldn't have, but saidthat I create chaos. Because if
you're used to chaos, if yougrew up with chaos, you recreate
it. So in relationships, I waseither the abused or the abuser,
(24:32):
not physical. I've neverphysically abused a man, but
just, you know, cheated,laughed, whatever you know, just
hurt them somehow. So I thinkwhen I met Chris, a couple
things had happened. I had totalk to myself in my head, and I
said, You do not have to datemen who need to be fixed, and
(24:54):
you can just date someone who'snice to you like you can allow,
you can allow that to happen.
You. Know so and you don't haveto try to destroy it, because I
did. I remember one time when wewere engaged, like being real
mean to him, and he was just andthen I caught myself. I'm like,
What am I doing?
Kristen Daukas (25:13):
I've had to have the conversation several times
with people, and I did the samething until I did the work on
myself, which is the wholeSpark, the butterflies, yes. And
I'm like, I've had I'm like,that's not good. Society has has
lied to us and told us that ifyou don't feel sparks and
(25:34):
butterflies, it's not the rightperson. And I'm like, Oh no,
that's your body telling yourun, that's your fight or flight
coming in, and that's anadrenaline and safe feels boring
because you don't feel that.
Unknown (25:48):
No, for sure, for sure, the relationship I had in high
school my senior year wasted mywhole senior year on this. This
guy was like that, butterfliesand excitement, and I lost a
bunch of weight because I wasn'teating and, you know, it was
Yeah, and it
Kristen Daukas (26:04):
was your adrenaline,
Unknown (26:05):
yeah.
Kristen Daukas (26:06):
How's the process? We're gonna segue a
little bit, because we'reprobably got about another 10
minutes left. But let's talkabout the process, the fun part
of writing a book. So, I mean,I've never actually written my
own book. I had, you know, whenI contributed, it was somebody
else taking care of it. Whathappens now? Okay, so the book
comes out in November, after theelection. She made sure to point
(26:27):
out after the
Unknown (26:27):
election nothing to do with
Kristen Daukas (26:31):
so the book so you are, is it done? Has it gone
to print yet? I know you hadmentioned to me that you had
some more edits. Editing,
Unknown (26:38):
yeah, I'm doing one more revision, because I sent it
a couple months ago to adevelopmental editor, and she,
you know, really said, No, youneed to do a lot here. So I'm
doing what she said, and I willprobably, it'll probably be
completed, completed bySeptember 15, and then that
(27:02):
would give me a couple months todo things like this, and, you
know, all those other thingspromote I guess I'm not good at
that, but I have to try. Now.
It's been fun. And
Kristen Daukas (27:15):
then, so then the book goes on sale. You know,
it's not like the it's not likethey, they used to make it seem
in the movies and TV showsyou're not going on like, you
know, 50 city tour.
Unknown (27:26):
No, no. I very much want Jenna Bush Hagar to
interview me on the Today Show.
But, you know, I don't, I don'tthink I just can call her and
say, hey,
Kristen Daukas (27:37):
why not, bestie?
Unknown (27:38):
I'm stopping in. Hey, happen to be in
Kristen Daukas (27:43):
the neighborhood, yeah, well, you
should, and then are you goingto do anything else? Is this
your one and done? Do you thinkthis will motivate you to do
other published pieces? Oh,
Unknown (27:54):
I am working on a journal with with prompts, and
it's called say nope to normal.
So I am going to get that outsometime after the book. I want
to speak more, because I know,you know, this kind of thing
happens to a lot of people outthere, so I would like to go
speak. I find it easy to speakabout my abuse. I i tend, you
(28:15):
know, like I said, I tend tomake other people uncomfortable
when I talk about it, but I cantalk about it, I don't know. I
see myself trying to helpyounger women and girls more to
get through that, to move on. I
Kristen Daukas (28:35):
think it will, yeah, and I think it will. I
mean, it kind of goes back toyou know, it's a catastrophic
thing to have happen, right? Andit can very easily define the
rest of your life. And there hasto be a choice made. Because if
you don't make a choice, and I'mnot saying get over it, right?
(28:56):
Because do you ever really getover it however, you can make
the choice to whether or not howmuch it's going to define you in
your life and your future. Youknow it's, it's just, it's
something I'd never wish onanyone, but how you choose to
move on with your life, it saysa lot about you and a lot about
the family and friends thatsurround you and support you
(29:18):
through this. I think it's Ithink it's fantastic. I'm glad
you did it. I'm glad I've knownyou so you know the name of the
book is chasing normal, just aswe close out in your eight year
old, nine year old self, whatwas normal to you? I
Unknown (29:39):
had friends who, okay, so Jenny was my best friend in
eighth grade. Her mom stayedhome, and she was nice. She
didn't scream at us or anything.
Jenny was in Girl Scouts, andshe took dance classes, and her
mom cooked like we were big onTV dinner. And drive through,
(29:59):
you know, and and her dad didnot sexually abuse her, so it
was just like that, like thatwas normal. And so in high
school, and later, when I datedpeople that I was not compatible
with, part of it was, Oh, hisfamily is normal. And then I
could be in that family, youknow, and
Kristen Daukas (30:22):
now you know it.
When did your definition ofnormal change? And then what
does normal look like to younow?
Unknown (30:31):
Oh, I'm never gonna be normal, because I, you know, I,
I say whatever comes to my mind,I'm like Sophia on the Golden
Girls. That's who I identifywith. Yeah, normal is anything,
but that is your normal, yeah,my normal is that I'm a little
nutty. Is, and I didn't realize.
I mean, I think it took me along time, is, when I was
(30:52):
younger, I thought, yeah, I wassexually abused, but I'm fine.
No, I wasn't fine. You know,
Kristen Daukas (30:59):
just burying it?
Yeah, it's just like the giftthat keeps on giving until you
unwrap it.
Unknown (31:06):
That's a good thing.
Yeah, that's a good thought. Ineed that printed.
Kristen Daukas (31:13):
Lisa, thank you so much for taking time to tell
your story. Can't wait. I'mgonna finish the book and I'm
gonna get you your quote, yourreview, I promise, because I
know it's important, and seethat's why I have to have a
deadline. Because if you don'tgive me a deadline, I'll be
like, my deadline is coming,because you said I need to have
it by September. And I'm like,Okay, I got it.
Unknown (31:34):
Thank you. Yeah, I do want to put something inside the
book to have a page of quotes.
So, oh, nice to do that. Yeah,very
Kristen Daukas (31:42):
nice little and I like the journal. You know,
journaling is good and you know,it helps us. Writing things down
helps us process a lot. Youknow, just getting it out
sometimes, you know, justputting it on paper is the first
step to really getting thingsout. The catharticism of it is
really good. So Well, the bestof luck to you. I hope it lands
on the New York Times bestsellerlist. But more importantly, I
(32:06):
just hope you have fun with itand that it is everything that
you want it to be. So thanksagain, everybody. Thank you.
This has been an insightful andyou know, different
conversation, which I love. Youknow, I love me some good
conversations. I hope everyoneis well and until the next time
we speak again or listen again,May the road before you always
(32:31):
be free of snow. How's that onefor this week? All right, yeah,
Ready Talk to you later. As thesaying goes, you don't have to
go home, but you can stay here,and that's a wrap for this
week's episode. A big thanks tomy guests for sharing their
story and to you for listening.
Don't forget to share the showwith your friends and spread the
words. And if you'd like to be aguest on the show, the link is
in the show notes till nexttime. Cheers. You.
Hey friends, it's Kristen daukas, today's
show. I just wanted to give youa little heads up that this
episode contains sensitivematerials such as abuse and
sexual abuse that may beupsetting to some. With that
said, let's get on with today'sshow. Welcome to Conversations
(00:21):
on the rocks, the podcast wherethe drink is strong and the
stories are stronger. I'm yourhost, Kristen daukas, and this
isn't your average chat fest.
Here. Real people spill the teaalongside their favorite drinks,
from the hilarious to the heartwrenching, each episode a wild
card. You'll laugh, you may cry,but you'll definitely learn
something new. So grab whatever,what's your whistle and buckle
(00:41):
up. It's time to dive into theraw, the real and the
ridiculously human. Let's getthis chat party started. Hey
everybody, it's Kristen, and youare listening to the newest
episode of conversations on therocks, the podcast that's as
random as the Tumbleweed thatgoes through my head on a hot
(01:01):
summer day, and I have an authorwith me today. It's my first
author, and I am actually anauthor, kinda I did a
compilation, compilation so I ampublished. I can walk around and
say I am a published author, butLisa Girardi, who is my guest
today, is a bona fide author,like she's been writing her book
(01:25):
now, chasing normal for it'sbeen a hot minute, hasn't it?
It's been a year.
Unknown (01:33):
Yeah, well, it's been, like, a decade since I first
started it. And then, you know,it's, it's a memoir, so I kind
of be all gung ho, and then Ilike, I don't want to think
about this, you know, because mychildhood wasn't like a downy
fabric softener commercial oranything. It was, you know,
different. So it's
Kristen Daukas (01:52):
hard. Yeah, I think we were chat chatting
earlier today, and I told youI've read half of it already,
which I still owe you a reviewfor Amazon so I can be a
published author again. But it'san intense topic. Do you want to
talk about it a little bit?
Unknown (02:08):
I mean, sure, I don't know. I
Kristen Daukas (02:10):
mean, I granted, it's in the book, but, you know,
right, it's in the
Unknown (02:13):
book I was so it's been, it's always been my normal
so I can talk about this veryeasily. And other people are
like, I almost titled Thememoir, making people cringe
because, you know, like, I'll bein a situation like a book club,
and people are like, Oh, Iremember when my grandma made
cookies and I'm there. Like, Iremember when I went to my
(02:34):
grandma to get help because mystep uncle was molesting me, and
she told me, We don't talk aboutthat, you know. And everybody's
like, and to me, it's like that,you know, it is what it is. But
people hear that and they'relike, Oh, wow.
Kristen Daukas (02:48):
Well, it's a very it's a hard topic that is
very real, but people don't wantto talk about it because it
makes them uncomfortable, right?
And it is a conversation thatneeds to happen a little bit
more often, because you and Iare the same. We're both Gen
Xers, so we're in the same, youknow, I don't call it age
(03:08):
anymore. We're at the same gamelevel. And you're right back
then, not, you know, thank God,nothing like that ever happened
to me. How? Yeah, exactly. But,you know, it's it. That was the
general, oh, we don't talk aboutthat and, yeah, it, you know, it
still happens. These situationsstill happen. However, I'm
(03:29):
hoping that as a society, youknow, we take it a lot more
seriously now, whether it's, youknow, assault of a child or
assault in general, it's not somuch of the it's his word, their
word against your word, becausethere's a lot of that. It's like
the thing that the big viralthing a couple of months ago.
(03:52):
Remember what the bear or likejust last month? Yes, would you
rather be alone with a man or abear? And all these women and
we're listing off the thingsthat they gotta be alone with a
bear, right,
Unknown (04:03):
right? Yeah, that's
Kristen Daukas (04:05):
sad that we're still in that kind of a
situation, yeah, as a society.
So what made you you said you'vebeen doing it for about 10
years. You've lived with it yourentire life, so over 50 years.
And what was, what? What madeyou finally go, I'm putting this
down on paper. I am going topublish this. I am going to put
out my memoir. You know,
Unknown (04:28):
a couple of things.
Getting involved with thenonfiction authors association
was very motivating. And Iwatched, I forget the name of
the movie, but I watched a movieon TV where she was writing
about being abused, and she wasalways holding off on it, and
then someone told her, right,like no one is going to read it.
And so then I started doingthat. Do you know what I'm
(04:50):
talking about? I know
Kristen Daukas (04:52):
what you're talking about, but I can't
remember the name it was that,that little piece that you just
said right there,
Unknown (04:57):
right like no one's going to read it. So and that
was always my, you know, fear.
And then, to be honest, mymother died in 2019 and I felt
more liberated to write becauseshe is, I don't know what planet
she lived on during those years,but it certainly wasn't the same
one I'm on, because herrecollection is very different.
(05:18):
How
Kristen Daukas (05:20):
was your relationship with your mom as an
adult? It
Unknown (05:24):
had stages, so I had to kind of divide her into two
people, then Mom and now mom.
She got better as I got older,and my stepdad, even though he
was a bigot and whatever waslike the best man she brought
into our life, and he told her,you know, stop hitting her. Go
easy on her. She's a good kid.
(05:47):
So sorry. My younger years, like20s, I was okay with her, you
know, she'd still give me moneybuy me things for my apartment.
But as I got older and as my songot older, I got angrier because
I love my son so much, Icouldn't understand how she did
(06:09):
not do anything when I told herabout sexual abuse she did
nothing, and how she could talkthe way she talked to me and hit
me and stuff, you know, like. Soit got worse, and then I would
just, I felt bad for her,because as she got older, my
brother had, like, he was offthe face of the earth. We didn't
know where he was, so I was allshe had. So, you know, my
(06:32):
husband used to say, I don'tunderstand why you still talk to
her. And the thing was, like,guilt, I guess, like I'm all she
has. You know, we don't have avery big family. That's
Kristen Daukas (06:43):
says a lot about you. That says a lot you're in
your mom, she was, she wassingle, right? She was a single,
working mom for a lot of years.
When was it that your stepdadcame into the picture?
Unknown (06:56):
Um, she met him when I was 13, when I was in eighth
grade.
Kristen Daukas (07:00):
So as a single working mother, do you feel, or
do you think that she poo pooedit because she was having to
rely on the perpetrators, and ifshe were to, and I'm not
justifying it. Please don't takethat at all. And if she were to
(07:23):
say something, then I'm gonna bekind of crazier than the gravy
train. The help the gravy trainthat she had would be gone, or
it could turn around, and thenwhatever abuse was was on her.
And you know which it's stilljust a shitty, shitty thing to
do, because I will. There's onlyfive people in the world that I
would go to jail for, and threeof those are my children, and it
(07:47):
is and you know, granted, somedays I feel like I need to go to
jail because of them. But youknow that is as a mother. And
you know this, you're a momyourself. I mean, did you ever
ask her why?
Unknown (08:01):
No, I never really talked much about it as an
adult. The one time there wasone time I saw her have, like,
guilt or feelings about it, I inmy early 20s, is when my GI
system started really buggingme, and I was I prepped and I
was supposed to have a lower GI,which is a barium enema. Fun,
(08:24):
fun time.
Kristen Daukas (08:26):
This town needs an enema. Yeah, that's my
favorite line from Batman.
Unknown (08:33):
So she took me to the hospital to have this test only
they they do not at least 20years ago, or when, no, this was
30 years ago. I'm lying tomyself about my age. They did
not knock me out or anything.
And I they, they did not evenget the thing there. And I was
hyperventilating, and I jumpedoff the the gurney, or whatever.
(08:56):
It's not a gurney, whatever thebench is they put you on. And I
went back to where my mom waswaiting, and I was
hyperventilating and crying, andshe got mad at not herself,
really, but she was like, youknow, effing Norman. My step
uncle was Norman, which is aterrible name. Sorry to all the
(09:17):
Normans out there, but that namejust norms. Terrible name,
Psycho is extra scary for being,you know, so she did, like, show
some feelings about it, but shenever really, I don't know. I
don't know if, if she had theability to be a better thinker
and communicator. I don't know.
Kristen Daukas (09:41):
I have to believe that in some way, that
the guilt she felt had to carryover. And I just have to, in my
mom heart, I have to, you know,she knew what it was, that it
wasn't right. So I have to hopeand believe that. You know. So
she didn't talk about it, sheavoided it, but at the same
(10:02):
time, she maybe internallyacknowledged the fact that what
she did was really awful ordidn't prevent what was the most
challenging part. Do you thinkabout writing about this,
Unknown (10:13):
sharing, you know, it's it's weird, but like you said,
We're Gen X, so my, my arc, Iguess, is, you know, the abuse
happen, and then I had horriblerelationships, and then I found
Chris. So the horriblerelationships, I internally slut
shame myself. I was like, wow, Iwas a big old slut, you know. So
(10:35):
that was tough. It was tough tobe honest, and I'm not even
including everything like thisis my best version of honest
about my dating life, and Idon't have shame over being
sexually abused because I didn'tdo that. That wasn't my fault.
But then the day
Kristen Daukas (10:53):
you weren't wearing that little princess
dress, I
Unknown (10:57):
wasn't. I never understood why people didn't
believe me or do anything,because this was in the 70s,
right? It's not like we had theinternet. How do I know what a
what male genitalia looks like?
You know, I didn't have accessto anything. So why wouldn't
Kristen Daukas (11:12):
you believe a little kid? Because they didn't
want to, they didn't want tohave to do anything about it.
That's right, that's going toget that ish is going to get
ugly. And, you know, I, I'veknown, unfortunately, I've known
women and young ladies who havewho've dealt with sexual assault
older and even in the 21stcentury, there's still that,
(11:34):
well, what were you doing? Whatwere what were you wearing? Did
you were you drinking? I'm like,I remember telling my girls,
like, I don't care if you arestanding Buck ass naked, holding
a 12 pack of beer, and no is no,and that is it. And I will come
after somebody if that is thecase. But a lot of times too, it
(11:59):
doesn't, these guys get awaywith it, or these people get
away with it, because ourjudicial system is set up so
that the victim is victimizedtwice, right?
Unknown (12:12):
So when I lived in Ohio, I was on a grand jury,
which was interesting. I'm anosy person. I actually like
jury duty, but they saved thesexual assaults for after lunch.
So it was always, you know,troubling. And this young woman
came in, you know, anacquaintance had raped her, had
kidnapped her and raped her,actually had kept her against
(12:32):
her will. And usually theperpetrator doesn't come in to
give testimony, but he did, hedid, and he was just all
handsome and denying everythingand like, oh, it was consensual,
because DNA evidence doesn'tnail them. They can just say it
was consensual, right? So whatreally angered me about the
situation is the three womensitting across the table from me
(12:55):
on the jury who are like, Well,you said she was a dancer. Yeah,
because she was a dancer, shedeserved to be kidnapped and
taken like he offered her a ridehome, and he did not let her get
out of the car, took her to hishouse, tied her up the whole
nine yards, and no, but she's adancer, right, so
Kristen Daukas (13:17):
that makes it okay, yeah,
Unknown (13:19):
yeah. I don't know what happened with that case, but I
don't I wouldn't be surprised ifhe was not found not guilty of
Kristen Daukas (13:26):
probably because she was a dancer. Well, that's
another thing. This is totallyoff subject, but kind of on
topic, which is the whole whysex workers, the whole sex work
thing just needs to belegalized. Yeah. Yeah. I mean to
take away, if we can startgetting rid of the stigma and
the connotation behind some ofthese things, you know, these,
(13:48):
these people, I won't just saylady, you know, young ladies, or
girls, or whatever, they're justtrying to make a living. They
should be safe. They should besafe. But that's the reason why
a lot of them, unfortunately,then run down the addict path
that goes with it. What aboutyour son and what about Chris?
How did they, I mean, how didtalk a little bit about how?
(14:12):
Because, again, very sensitivetopic, right? Not only is it a
sensitive topic, but now it's mymom and my wife having to go
through that. How did, how did,how did that work? Pan not pan
out. But, you know, well, howwas that,
Unknown (14:27):
since that happened to me, and I've always been pretty
open with my son at whateverage, like, whatever level he
could handle, you know, I haveasked him his entire life if
anybody has touched himinappropriately. He's 27 I still
do, because he once told hisfriend, like, gosh, if something
happened to me, I wouldn't tellmy mom, because she'd be in
(14:49):
jail. So I asked him all thetime, now, are you sure? Are you
just not telling me because youknow I'll go kill him or so he
he's known his whole life. I didsend them the. First draft of my
book, and Chris, he doesn't wantto read it because of the dating
stuff. And there's a, you know,boyfriend in college that was
(15:11):
abusive to me, but we hadwonderful sex, so you know,
that's kind of he doesn't wantto hear it. And my son started
reading it, and he texted me,said, Mom, I'm sure this is
going to be a page turner, butyou're my mom, so it's hard for
them to read.
Kristen Daukas (15:28):
But how were they through the process? I'm
sure they were supportive,right? Oh, definitely,
Unknown (15:32):
definitely, yeah, yeah.
And did you, were
Kristen Daukas (15:35):
you, were you able to work through some of
those things with them? I mean,I mean, you're a very open and
honest person, I can't see everthat you would have not been
open and honest and transparentwith them about the situation.
So really, it's no surprise,except for the fact that you're
just writing a 250 page, 300page book, right,
Unknown (15:53):
right? Yeah, no, I've always been open with them and
medical things like Kristendaukas office, because she
wanted to do a uterine biopsy.
And I somebody, they attemptedthat on me before, and I said,
No, you have to knock me out anyanything deep orifice like that.
(16:14):
I have to be unconscious becauseit's weird. There's a book I
think the body remembers, orsomething like that. I have it
over there. But, um, even thoughI go in to these situations
knowing that they are not thereto hurt me, my body just goes
nuts if we're if we're doinganything rectal or beyond the
(16:35):
cervix, you know, it's almostlike muscle memory, yeah, yeah.
So he's seen me do that, like,and then they had to schedule a
DNC because I was like, No, Ineed to you are not doing that?
Kristen Daukas (16:50):
You? I mean, we've known each other for a
long time. We kind of grew up inthe blogging world together, and
your sense of humor has alwaysbeen a key piece of I mean,
you're funny, you're funny asshit.
Unknown (17:03):
Shit can be unfunny too, though it sure
Kristen Daukas (17:05):
can, but yours is funny. Do you think, you
know, it is very true that, youknow humor sometimes hides our
trauma, right? That's how wedeal with things. Do you think,
and I, you know, I'm a prettypunny and, you know, witty kind
of person too. I'm not. I don'ttake a lot of things very
seriously. And I know sometimesthat that's, you know, it's
(17:26):
easier to deal with these thingswith humor. Do you think that
that? Let me ask you this way,were you the little comic when
you were young? Oh, yeah. Soyou've all Do you think it's
always though, been kind of away to not have to deal with the
demons face on it's easier todeal with them.
Unknown (17:45):
Definitely, when I first realized I was funny, was
eighth grade. I had moved to anew school before my mom met
John, and my old school was verytough, like hood school, but the
boundaries changed. I got tothis new school, and it's all
these people, I don't know, andI just started cracking jokes.
(18:06):
And then all of a sudden, I, youknow, was in with the preps. And
so I thought, wow, that's, youknow, it's good that I'm funny.
And then the first time John metme, he had us to that we lived
in the same apartment buildingas he did, and he had us to his
apartment for dinner. And I wasjust, you know, my mom had dated
rod for seven years. Who she gotolder, didn't exist. She's like,
(18:29):
I never dated when Lisa waslittle. Like, okay, and he was
horrible. So I, you know, like,oh, here we go again. Janet's
picked out another man. Let me,you know, get rid of them. And I
was just tearing into him,because I can really hurt people
with my words. It's, it's both agood thing and a bad thing
(18:49):
sometimes.
Kristen Daukas (18:50):
And no, I understand that, believe me. And
Unknown (18:54):
he just, he laughed and laughed, and he goes, you got
that he was much older than mymom. He's like, You got the gift
of gab kid. He says, You remindme of Joan Rivers. And I was
like, who's Joan Rivers? Youdon't know who's Italian too.
You don't know who Joan Riversis. And he got me the album for
Christmas, one of her album,young people, the vinyl, the
(19:14):
vinyl before, yeah, so, yeah. Hegot me into basically, and then
I started doing comedy, youknow, like, eight years later, I
would say, when
Kristen Daukas (19:25):
did you finally break out? Break out. Like, when
did you, like, break out fromyour mom. How old were you? Oh,
like, when did you leave to goout on your own? Did you go to
college? Did
Unknown (19:35):
you go to college? I did so my mom made me. I had the
boyfriend that nobody liked. Ididn't want to go away to
college. I'm not a partier. I'mI like to read, but I got into
Florida State, and she made me,made me go. She's like, No,
you're going. I'm like, but Icould go to community college
(19:58):
and it's right here. And they'relike, No. And. Plus my stepdad
was so much older, he'd raisedhis kid, so he wanted me out. So
17, I drove nine hours toFlorida State in my Chevy
Chevette. But then I reallyhated it, so the next year, I
moved back in with them and wentto school locally. But then when
I was 22 my stepdad was likestarting he's like taking me to
(20:22):
look at apartments that are interrible places, but you know
that I could afford. So I movedin with the man who is now my ex
husband, because they wanted meout and you know he had room. So
I just moved in with him, and Itell my son now, you know, you
wouldn't be here if my parentswere nicer,
Kristen Daukas (20:44):
because he's from your first marriage. Oh,
yeah, yeah.
Unknown (20:47):
But he, he gets along with Chris better, I would say.
Kristen Daukas (20:52):
But isn't it kind of interesting, though, had
you not had a differentapproach, or some, you know,
just a different mindset havinglived through that, how easy it
would have been for you to fallinto the same trap that your mom
did.
Unknown (21:08):
I did repeat some of her behavior. I mean, I, you
know, have divorce. I I did hitSergio when he was younger. I
think when he was about eight iswhen I, I met Chris, and I was
just like, I need to learn howto be a parent. I can't, you
know, I can't hit him. That'sjust not helpful. And he's so
(21:29):
smart, even as a little kid,that helped me to be able to
talk to him instead of lose myshit, right? So I did have a
therapist. When I was goingthrough my divorce, I went to a
therapist, and, like I said, Inever thought really much about
how old I was when I was abused.
I was two, and she said, howthat? She said, That's profound
abuse. How are you not on acorner right now? And I just
(21:52):
said, because I don't want tobe, I don't
Kristen Daukas (21:56):
know it's a it's a good testament to your strong
will, because I can totally, Imean, when I went through my
divorce, I did a lot of selfwork, right? Because you have
to, and I didn't necessarilywant to go to a therapist, so I
said, Okay, well, I'm gonnaread. And boy, did I learn a lot
about myself and my behaviors.
Like, you know, I was, I was,you know, we were both latchkey
(22:20):
kids, but I was the latchkeykid. And, you know, I couldn't
understand why I kept chasingafter unemotionally, emotionally
unavailable people, and that Iwas an emotionally unavailable
person. But why am I anemotionally unavailable person?
Because I got no emotion at homekind of thing. And it's like,
once you start going throughthis, and you start, and then
you get to the point that, untilyou work on yourself, you're
going to keep chasing that.
(22:42):
You're going to keep chasingwhether it's mommy issues or
daddy issues. You're going tokeep trying to for me, it was,
you know, my stepdad. I couldnever, I was never good enough
for him, and if I was, he didn'tlet me know. It was always, You
could do this better. You coulddo that better. So I was always
in my entire life. And you know,in my dating life, in my
(23:03):
marriage life, in my postmarriage life, I was always
trying to prove that I wasworthy, and because I was trying
to prove it to the wrong people.
So, I mean, we were destined torepeat these patterns until we
finally go, okay, until we canname it right. Once you can name
it, then you're like, oh, okay,now, now, let's get our ish
(23:24):
together, and let's, let's startfrom here, right? I came into
that naming thing a couple ofyears ago. What years? This is
2024, so my youngest moved outto of the house like so the
beginning of empty nesting. AndI was so it was, I didn't put a
name to it, but I was, like, acouple of months later, I was
(23:46):
like, What is wrong with me?
Like, I'm just like, meh. Like,I don't want to do this. I don't
want to do that. And it finallyclicked on me that I was
depressed, yeah, oh yeah. That,that huge piece of my life, of
being an active mother, anactive parent, was done. And
once I put, once I put the onceI was able to label it, then I
(24:09):
was able to fix it.
Unknown (24:11):
Yeah, no, that does help, um, with relationships, a
therapist I saw, um, before Ieven married my ex husband,
which I shouldn't have, but saidthat I create chaos. Because if
you're used to chaos, if yougrew up with chaos, you recreate
it. So in relationships, I waseither the abused or the abuser,
(24:32):
not physical. I've neverphysically abused a man, but
just, you know, cheated,laughed, whatever you know, just
hurt them somehow. So I thinkwhen I met Chris, a couple
things had happened. I had totalk to myself in my head, and I
said, You do not have to datemen who need to be fixed, and
(24:54):
you can just date someone who'snice to you like you can allow,
you can allow that to happen.
You. Know so and you don't haveto try to destroy it, because I
did. I remember one time when wewere engaged, like being real
mean to him, and he was just andthen I caught myself. I'm like,
What am I doing?
Kristen Daukas (25:13):
I've had to have the conversation several times
with people, and I did the samething until I did the work on
myself, which is the wholeSpark, the butterflies, yes. And
I'm like, I've had I'm like,that's not good. Society has has
lied to us and told us that ifyou don't feel sparks and
(25:34):
butterflies, it's not the rightperson. And I'm like, Oh no,
that's your body telling yourun, that's your fight or flight
coming in, and that's anadrenaline and safe feels boring
because you don't feel that.
Unknown (25:48):
No, for sure, for sure, the relationship I had in high
school my senior year wasted mywhole senior year on this. This
guy was like that, butterfliesand excitement, and I lost a
bunch of weight because I wasn'teating and, you know, it was
Yeah, and it
Kristen Daukas (26:04):
was your adrenaline,
Unknown (26:05):
yeah.
Kristen Daukas (26:06):
How's the process? We're gonna segue a
little bit, because we'reprobably got about another 10
minutes left. But let's talkabout the process, the fun part
of writing a book. So, I mean,I've never actually written my
own book. I had, you know, whenI contributed, it was somebody
else taking care of it. Whathappens now? Okay, so the book
comes out in November, after theelection. She made sure to point
(26:27):
out after the
Unknown (26:27):
election nothing to do with
Kristen Daukas (26:31):
so the book so you are, is it done? Has it gone
to print yet? I know you hadmentioned to me that you had
some more edits. Editing,
Unknown (26:38):
yeah, I'm doing one more revision, because I sent it
a couple months ago to adevelopmental editor, and she,
you know, really said, No, youneed to do a lot here. So I'm
doing what she said, and I willprobably, it'll probably be
completed, completed bySeptember 15, and then that
(27:02):
would give me a couple months todo things like this, and, you
know, all those other thingspromote I guess I'm not good at
that, but I have to try. Now.
It's been fun. And
Kristen Daukas (27:15):
then, so then the book goes on sale. You know,
it's not like the it's not likethey, they used to make it seem
in the movies and TV showsyou're not going on like, you
know, 50 city tour.
Unknown (27:26):
No, no. I very much want Jenna Bush Hagar to
interview me on the Today Show.
But, you know, I don't, I don'tthink I just can call her and
say, hey,
Kristen Daukas (27:37):
why not, bestie?
Unknown (27:38):
I'm stopping in. Hey, happen to be in
Kristen Daukas (27:43):
the neighborhood, yeah, well, you
should, and then are you goingto do anything else? Is this
your one and done? Do you thinkthis will motivate you to do
other published pieces? Oh,
Unknown (27:54):
I am working on a journal with with prompts, and
it's called say nope to normal.
So I am going to get that outsometime after the book. I want
to speak more, because I know,you know, this kind of thing
happens to a lot of people outthere, so I would like to go
speak. I find it easy to speakabout my abuse. I i tend, you
(28:15):
know, like I said, I tend tomake other people uncomfortable
when I talk about it, but I cantalk about it, I don't know. I
see myself trying to helpyounger women and girls more to
get through that, to move on. I
Kristen Daukas (28:35):
think it will, yeah, and I think it will. I
mean, it kind of goes back toyou know, it's a catastrophic
thing to have happen, right? Andit can very easily define the
rest of your life. And there hasto be a choice made. Because if
you don't make a choice, and I'mnot saying get over it, right?
(28:56):
Because do you ever really getover it however, you can make
the choice to whether or not howmuch it's going to define you in
your life and your future. Youknow it's, it's just, it's
something I'd never wish onanyone, but how you choose to
move on with your life, it saysa lot about you and a lot about
the family and friends thatsurround you and support you
(29:18):
through this. I think it's Ithink it's fantastic. I'm glad
you did it. I'm glad I've knownyou so you know the name of the
book is chasing normal, just aswe close out in your eight year
old, nine year old self, whatwas normal to you? I
Unknown (29:39):
had friends who, okay, so Jenny was my best friend in
eighth grade. Her mom stayedhome, and she was nice. She
didn't scream at us or anything.
Jenny was in Girl Scouts, andshe took dance classes, and her
mom cooked like we were big onTV dinner. And drive through,
(29:59):
you know, and and her dad didnot sexually abuse her, so it
was just like that, like thatwas normal. And so in high
school, and later, when I datedpeople that I was not compatible
with, part of it was, Oh, hisfamily is normal. And then I
could be in that family, youknow, and
Kristen Daukas (30:22):
now you know it.
When did your definition ofnormal change? And then what
does normal look like to younow?
Unknown (30:31):
Oh, I'm never gonna be normal, because I, you know, I,
I say whatever comes to my mind,I'm like Sophia on the Golden
Girls. That's who I identifywith. Yeah, normal is anything,
but that is your normal, yeah,my normal is that I'm a little
nutty. Is, and I didn't realize.
I mean, I think it took me along time, is, when I was
(30:52):
younger, I thought, yeah, I wassexually abused, but I'm fine.
No, I wasn't fine. You know,
Kristen Daukas (30:59):
just burying it?
Yeah, it's just like the giftthat keeps on giving until you
unwrap it.
Unknown (31:06):
That's a good thing.
Yeah, that's a good thought. Ineed that printed.
Kristen Daukas (31:13):
Lisa, thank you so much for taking time to tell
your story. Can't wait. I'mgonna finish the book and I'm
gonna get you your quote, yourreview, I promise, because I
know it's important, and seethat's why I have to have a
deadline. Because if you don'tgive me a deadline, I'll be
like, my deadline is coming,because you said I need to have
it by September. And I'm like,Okay, I got it.
Unknown (31:34):
Thank you. Yeah, I do want to put something inside the
book to have a page of quotes.
So, oh, nice to do that. Yeah,very
Kristen Daukas (31:42):
nice little and I like the journal. You know,
journaling is good and you know,it helps us. Writing things down
helps us process a lot. Youknow, just getting it out
sometimes, you know, justputting it on paper is the first
step to really getting thingsout. The catharticism of it is
really good. So Well, the bestof luck to you. I hope it lands
on the New York Times bestsellerlist. But more importantly, I
(32:06):
just hope you have fun with itand that it is everything that
you want it to be. So thanksagain, everybody. Thank you.
This has been an insightful andyou know, different
conversation, which I love. Youknow, I love me some good
conversations. I hope everyoneis well and until the next time
we speak again or listen again,May the road before you always
(32:31):
be free of snow. How's that onefor this week? All right, yeah,
Ready Talk to you later. As thesaying goes, you don't have to
go home, but you can stay here,and that's a wrap for this
week's episode. A big thanks tomy guests for sharing their
story and to you for listening.
Don't forget to share the showwith your friends and spread the
words. And if you'd like to be aguest on the show, the link is
in the show notes till nexttime. Cheers. You.
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