September 3, 2024 • 34 mins
Caroline Downing shares her journey of navigating life in Washington, D.C., including her experiences with roommates, her whirlwind marriage and divorce, and the lessons she's learned along the way.
Caroline's openness about the challenges she faced in her marriage and the aftermath of her divorce is both heartbreaking and empowering. She reflects on the societal pressures she felt to settle down, as well as the importance of being true to oneself and not compromising on what one deserves in a relationship. Caroline's story serves as a powerful reminder that sometimes the most difficult experiences can lead to the greatest personal growth.
Throughout the conversation, Caroline's passion for Taylor Swift's music and her creative divorce photo shoot showcases her resilience and ability to find joy and self-expression even during difficult times. Our discussion of the potential impact of a Taylor Swift endorsement for Kamala Harris further highlights Caroline's engagement with current events and her willingness to use her voice to make a difference.
Born and raised in DC, Caroline has always been drawn to storytelling—though the dream of becoming a documentary filmmaker faded when she realized it wasn't exactly lucrative. She's got a fun idea for a novel (or maybe a memoir) brewing. After earning her business degree from Catholic University and quitting what she once thought was her dream job, Caroline now finds herself working in HR for a well-known restaurant—though she's keeping the name under wraps for now.
twitter/instagram/tiktok: @ thecarolove
the website: https://thecarolove.com/
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Kristen Daukas (00:00):
Kristen daukas, welcome to Conversations on the
(00:05):
rocks, the podcast where thedrink is strong and the stories
are stronger. I'm your host,Kristen daukas, and this isn't
your average chat fest. Here,real people spill the tea
alongside their favorite drinks,from the hilarious to the heart
wrenching, each episode a wildcard. You'll laugh, you may cry,
but you'll definitely learnsomething new. So grab whatever,
(00:26):
what's your whistle and buckleup. It's time to dive into the
raw, the real and theridiculously human. Let's get
this chat party started. Heyeverybody. It's Kristen daukas,
and you are listening to thelatest episode of conversations
on the rocks podcast, the showthat's like your favorite drink,
a little bit of this, a littlebit of that, and a whole lot of
(00:49):
unexpected twists. And this ismy second, or, I'm sorry, my
123, fourth, fourth interviewwith actually, we are cheating a
little bit here. And Caroline,who is my guest today, is a
millennial. She is not a Gen Zor zillennial. One of my guests
was a zillennial, but she saidthat she favored more towards
the millennial side, but you'reon the millennial side, and
(01:12):
that's okay. We accept you too.
Caroline, tell us a little bitabout yourself, and thank you so
much for saying yes, yeah.
Unknown (01:19):
Thank you so much for having me. So I am Caroline. I
am a millennial, solidly amillennial. I just turned 35 I
was born and raised in DC, and Irecently got my graduate degree
from Catholic University inbusiness with concentration in
HR. So that's what I'm doingnow. I also left what I thought
(01:40):
was going to be my dream jobearlier this spring and started
a whole new career. So it's beendefinitely an adventure. It's
been kind of a crazy summer. Oneof my other things about me is
that I have a blog that Istarted in 2014 and it has grown
and evolved, but that is wheremost of my friends have come
(02:00):
from, is from blogging andInstagramming and even Twitter.
So it's funny. It's like, youyou hear growing up, or I did,
you know, don't make friendsfrom the internet, and all my
friends are from either where Iwork or the internet. So
although it's kind of fun, but Ijust, I love telling stories,
and so when I had theopportunity to jump on the
(02:20):
podcast. Wanted to take it Yay.
So
Kristen Daukas (02:23):
it's so funny that you opened with that
because I had, I'm a socialmedia expert. I better be. I've
been doing it for 15 years, andback in the day when Twitter was
fun, I met a huge group ofwomen, so much that, in fact,
that a lot of us are still veryclose friends. And I started
this for the ones of us thatwere local, a little thing
(02:44):
called broads who tweet the BWT.
So our hashtag was BWT, and wewould do meetups and tweet ups,
and we did a couple of retreatsthat was so much fun. And it was
just people would be like, it'sso funny. Like my girl, one of
my close friend's team, when wego out, they're like, Oh, how'd
you guys meet? She's like,Twitter. And people are like,
nah. We're like, Aha. So it's,it's such a fun way, and just
(03:07):
it's, I liken it to, and this isprobably not in your age span,
but way back in the day, in thevery beginning of the interwebs,
when, you know there were chatrooms. And really chat rooms
were, yeah, and you know, we hadour own little, you know, you
had your own little secret code,pos parents on the shoulder,
Unknown (03:33):
yep, no, and I was too young to be in chat rooms. But
Kristen Daukas (03:37):
were you there?
Were you breaking the rules? Butyeah, I started my blog, no go.
Unknown (03:45):
Oh, AOL, had, uh, kids only chat rooms, so I used to,
like, log on and I'd be like,eight years old in chat rooms,
which I don't think my parentsknew anything about it, but it
was just like, oh, this is socool. I can, like, talk to
people, talk to strangers. I waslike, a weird little kid, so it
was like, I'm gonna makefriends.
Kristen Daukas (04:02):
And your your 35 year old self now is like, oh my
god, I'm so lucky.
Unknown (04:08):
Can you imagine you've been kidnapped? Yeah,
Kristen Daukas (04:12):
I'm telling you.
I'm telling you right now Iagree with you, kind of like me
being, you know, a Gen X or as alatch key kid. I'm like, How I
Survived there. I saw a meme acouple of a couple of weeks ago,
and I wish I'd saved it. It waslike, it talking about Gen X.
It's like it said something tothe again, of our parents
weren't trying to kill us, butthey weren't trying to stop it
either. You guys were latchkeykids too.
Unknown (04:35):
Yeah, we had Au Pairs until I was in fifth grade, and
then we just were like, We don'twant them. So we were we had a
carpool situation, so we wouldcome home after school for a
couple hours, and like ourcarpool would just drop us off,
and we'd get into fistfightsabout who could use computer
first. But we'd never burned thehouse down, so I guess you know
no worse for the wear there,
Kristen Daukas (04:57):
and if you didn't burn it down with dial
up. You were pretty good. It wasnever going to be the toaster
was going to be dial upinternet. My kids never had to
hear that sound. Creative Space.
Unknown (05:12):
Yeah, I started so my blog actually started 2014 it
was called Little bitty cityone, and it was kind of about me
finding my voice working in thecity at the time, I still lived
at home. And then I kind of, Irebranded it into the Carol love
when I was a few years afterthat, and it became more of just
(05:34):
like sharing my style more thananything else. I just I tell
people now that I treat my bloglike a paper doll. I just find
things that I like and put themtogether and share. You know,
what's making me happy? It's alot of a lot of dresses and
sneakers. I will put it thatway, like that is my style, but
that's it's what I've been
Kristen Daukas (05:55):
sharing.
Spoilers. There's a lot, there'sa lot, there's also a lot of
glitter, which I like and loveglitter. I was, I was totally
stalking you today, and I waslike, Oh, look at all that
glitter.
Unknown (06:06):
Yeah, very glitter, very pink. I've leaned into
being a girly girl, and thatactually started when I worked
with Mackenzie, because workingat Mission, I didn't really have
that much of a dress code. And Iwas like, Oh, I went from a
financial advisory firm where itwas like, pretty business casual
to like, oh, I can wear brightcolors, and I can wear, like,
fun little skirts, and I canwear sneakers to work, you know,
(06:29):
as long as we were basicallyappropriately covered up and
could move in what we werewearing. So went right back to
what I was doing inkindergarten, wearing shorts
under the skirts because I wasmore comfortable that way, but
I'd be like, moving furniture inin skirts and sneakers. But that
is that really kind of helped mefind my style again, not having
(06:50):
to dress for a financialadvisory firm, and now with a
job I have, we very specificallydo not have a dress code. So
there was someone in the officetoday in shorts, which I thought
was interesting. You know, workappropriate, but still, it's
just like, oh, we really don'thave a dress code here. Well,
Kristen Daukas (07:06):
and if you're still in hospitality, you can't,
Unknown (07:10):
yeah, so I'm more in the corporate side. I it's, it's
actually in an office. But Ithink because we do work with
chefs, we do work with people inrestaurants. It's like, if
you're in a restaurant, ifyou're working in a restaurant,
it's like, no ripped jeans, likeit's and wear the branded shirt.
But we very much let peopleexpress their individuality. Our
(07:34):
founder usually is wearingjoggers and Gucci sneakers,
which cracks me up.
Kristen Daukas (07:38):
Yes, I'm familiar. I'm familiar. I love
it. So tell me a little bitabout your life. How long, how
long have you been in DC proper,
Unknown (07:52):
DC proper, on and off for 10 years. So I moved into DC
when I was 24 I had I reallylucked out. I found my roommate
actually on Craigslist, which, Imean, that could have gone very
differently, but I met Megan onCraigslist. We have this place
in Georgetown, which was insane.
Rent was less than $1,000 amonth to live in Georgetown. Her
(08:15):
boyfriend moved in with us, andI, like, adored him too, like,
I've been to their baby's firstbirthday party. We're still
friends. And then we actuallywere bought out of our
apartment. They gutted it,renovated it, tripled the rent.
But at the time, it was great,because I was moving in with my
then fiance, which we're gettingto, like, the the meat of it,
(08:37):
yeah, so my fiance and I movedout, and then we lived in Glover
Park for another two years,until I got divorced and moved
home, and then covid hit, and Imoved back to DC in 2021 and it
has been a journey, and it'sfunny because I actually moved
back to the same complex,different building, different
(08:58):
street, but I moved back to Thesame complex I lived in with my
ex husband.
Kristen Daukas (09:03):
All right, so there's a lot to unpack there.
And I How long were you married?
Unknown (09:09):
We were only married for about a year, but everything
happened very fast. So we metMarch of 2016 engaged, April
2017 married in April of 2018separated in the summer of 2019
so everything was like, very,very, very fast. So
Kristen Daukas (09:30):
35 year old Caroline looking back on that,
what mistakes or what? And Ihate using the word mistakes,
but I'm going to use it forthis, not for this, but just for
the purpose of what, whathappened? Because that's fast,
even for your age, that's that'sor, actually, let me rephrase
that, even for old people,that's fast. Yeah,
Unknown (09:52):
so while I was getting divorced, so this is kind of
jumping the gun a little bit. II'm not saying
Kristen Daukas (09:57):
I don't need, I don't need dirty I don't need.
The dirty, nitty, ditty, grittydetails. But you know, you met,
you got engaged, you gotmarried, you got divorced. Like,
no,
Unknown (10:07):
um, well, when I was kind of going through it all, I
realized that, like, basically,I married the first guy to ask
me, and it just seemed too goodto be true at the time. Like,
within a couple months of usdating, he bought me a new Mac
because my computer died. And Iwas like, Oh, this guy can take
care of me. Like, that's a goodsign he was military. And
(10:27):
there's kind of that like, jokeabout, like, Oh, everybody,
like, moves quickly in themilitary. It's not a joke. It
really happens. And he did areally good job of kind of
fooling everybody into usthinking that he was a
completely different person thanhe was, and I also was
completely settling, to becompletely honest. Like it was
(10:49):
just like, Okay, this guy wantsto marry me. I guess I'll marry
him. It kind of turns into that,like, Oh, this guy is giving me
attention. That's nice. Like,you know, if he if we want to
move this forward, like, let'smove it forward like, this
works. This will be fine. And itjust there were red flags that I
totally ignored, and yeah, justnot a great situation, and I hid
(11:12):
a lot of stuff that was going onfrom my parents, from my
friends. Of
Kristen Daukas (11:16):
course you did.
Why do you think you were insuch You said it yourself that
he was the first guy that askedyou, do you feel like you So,
what were you 25 at that time?
Unknown (11:26):
I just had turned 26 when we met. Yeah. So, mid 20s.
Okay,
Kristen Daukas (11:32):
so, did you feel pressure? Did you feel like you
were getting pressure from yourfamily, from your friends, from
society? As I told you before,I'm a huge societal pressure on
girls to be in relationships isa huge soapbox of mine, because
I think it's ridiculous, and Ithink it's very unhealthy for
our young ladies. Yeah. I mean,the thing women, period, young
(11:55):
girl, yeah, yeah. The
Unknown (11:56):
thing that's weird is that, like, I was so happy
being, like, the third, fifth,seventh, wheel. Like, when my
friends would go out in groups,like, I never mind it. If there
was a restaurant I want to goto, I would like, I had a group
of people that I would just belike, Hey, I made us
reservations. Like, let's go. Ididn't even really mind being
single. But I think more thanyou know, my parents or my
(12:17):
friends pressuring me, it wasmore just like I grew up
watching Disney movies and romcoms and, you know, Reese
Witherspoon movies where it'slike, okay, happy ending. Like,
everybody gets here, happyending. I was just kind of
looking for mine. I
Kristen Daukas (12:31):
see it a lot in the south, right? And, you know,
it's the if you're not marriedby 25 you're an old maid, right?
And it just, there's the onething I've always told my girls
is, like, I want you to get Iwant whether you get married or
not. You know, I want you to behappy, if that, but you've got
to be happy with yourself first.
I always go through that. Isaid, but your 20s, like, go,
(12:51):
your 20s are to, like, go andlike, do the things and not have
to worry about anything oranyone. It's like that's when it
is time for you to live yourlife. Because should you choose
to settle down at some pointyou're gonna have a lot you got
the rest of your life, if allthings work out. Well, was it
hard to come to the realization?
(13:13):
And I'm sure it didn't take verylong, because once those vows
are said, I've said a couple oftimes that, I think a lot of
times young ladies, especiallynow, are more interested in the
wedding than the marriage. Andnot not just ladies. I think the
guys are too. I think they'remore interested in the wedding
than they are the actualmarriage itself. Because once
(13:33):
those party favors are done andonce the thank you cards have
been written, and you're intothree months into what are we
going to have for dinner? Didyou pick up the cat litter? Did
you do that? You're all of asudden like, Oh, this is not as
sexy as all that other stuff.
Yeah.
Unknown (13:49):
Well, I kind of lucked out. And I'll say I lucked out
in that he was on a businesstrip for a couple of months. So
he worked for a startup that wasopening in Arizona. So he was
out in Arizona, and I got amessage from a girl in Arizona,
and I called a hey girl message.
I was like, just to let you knowyour I didn't know that you
existed, but your husband and Ihad been having an affair, and I
(14:13):
wanted you to know as soon as Ifound out. And honestly, to this
day, I say, God bless Haley fromArizona, because she was kind of
the catalyst for me to realizethat I had not been treated well
and that I didn't think thingswere going to change and they
were just getting worse. And sohonestly, God bless Hailey from
Arizona. So I do say that Ireally love yay Haley. Like the
(14:36):
fact that I was gonna say shehad a lot of balls to tell me
that, and I I first didn'tbelieve her. I was like, oh, you
know, I think you might beconfused. And then she went on
to tell me about one of histattoos in detail. And I was
like, Okay, well, probably thesame guy, and I actually called
(14:58):
him. Him,
Kristen Daukas (15:00):
I had a question about Haley. Was he having the
affair with Haley? Yeah. Oh, hewas so Haley was just like, you
are not gonna two time, both ofus good for her. Well, not good
for her. I mean, you know, Inever see here's the thing. I
never blame the other woman. Inever do. People are always like
(15:21):
that. You fill in the blank wordyou want to use for that harlot
that this that other, and I'mlike, Honey, it ain't, I mean,
she didn't just walk up to himand go, Hey, you're married.
Let's have a let's, let's, let'shave an affair. You know, I am
sure the onus was on him.
Unknown (15:39):
Yeah. And I called him that day, and I said, Who's
Haley? And he goes, I think youknow. And I said, Okay, Megan
and I are going to a concerttonight. Do not call me. Do not
text me. We will talk about thiswhen I get home, but I'm going
to the Maren Morin concert,leave me Maren Morris concert,
leave me alone. Do
Kristen Daukas (15:58):
you think he even cared? I know that sounds
really harsh, but people likethat, and just I've known people
like that, and I don't want tojust say guys or men. I know
people that they're just like,All right, next, next. And I
don't mean to make it sound socallous, but
Unknown (16:16):
I think he cared that he got caught because I was the
one taking care of him. Myfamily was taking care of us. I
think he was kind of in like anOH SHIT kind of moment where he
realized he just messed up goodthing he had going on, because
he had me in the palm of hishand, and he had my parents
believing that he was a greatguy, and everything just came
(16:39):
crashing down and it was hisfault, Kitty, yeah,
Kristen Daukas (16:44):
I babysit for those of you, not for for those
of you that are not watching.
There's a cat in the in thescene right now, black cat,
yeah, and kind of ominous withthis conversation that we're
having, yeah. So yay for Haley.
And I would love for you to sithere and tell me that now you
guys are BFFs, but I'm surethat's
Unknown (17:05):
not the case. No, we've never so we spoke again, one
other time when I had a friendwho's a lawyer being like, get a
copy of their text thread. And Iwas like, hey, Haley, so sorry
to drag you back into this.
Would you mind? And she said, Iwas waiting for you to ask me
up. Held on to all of them, andshe sent me all of the
screenshots.
Kristen Daukas (17:21):
That's amazing.
That's amazing. Wow. So Well,I'm sorry that that happened to
you, in a way, but I'm glad,like you said, I'm glad that you
found out sooner rather thanlater. I remember a couple that
I knew when we lived inPennsylvania, a lot, you know,
20 some years ago, and they, hethe guy, called off the divorce,
(17:43):
right? Or no, I'm sorry. Theygot married and then divorced
within like 90 days. And Iremember somebody saying to her,
and I have said this to otherpeople, not to trivial,
trivialize, trivialize it. Butit's like, it's better to find
out in the beginning, when allyou're having to do is split
furniture and not kids. Yes,100%
Unknown (18:04):
and he actually, when we were engaged, was trying to
get me to have kids with himbefore we were married. And I'm
kind of wondering what his anglewas now, but I'm so glad there
are no kids in the mix thatwould have been so much harder.
Permanence,
Kristen Daukas (18:19):
that's what his angle was permanence, because he
knew he was going to be a shit.
You're probably right. Yeah, hedid. I mean, because those kind
of people are like that, andthey don't change.
Unknown (18:33):
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Kristen Daukas (19:03):
What's your outlook on with relationships
now in your mid 30s? Um,
Unknown (19:08):
I've had a couple of relationships since then, and
it's almost like with everysingle one. And I think this is
probably the same for everybody.
I've just learned. I've learnedlike what I will and won't
accept. I've learned what makesme sad or angry from people I'm
a lot better at voicing that,like, Hey, you did this thing. I
didn't like it. I didn't likeyour tone. Don't take that tone
with me. Or I didn't like howyou didn't take my feelings
(19:32):
seriously. And I also have foundthat, like, the more honest I
am, the more receptive these menare. So I think it's just I'm
looking at the whole thing isjust a learning experience. But
certainly not going to jump intogetting married to anybody
quickly. Again, I would like to,but just definitely get, want to
take my time with it. Now I
Kristen Daukas (19:55):
have a thought that just completely smoked out
of my head, speaking of.
Relationships, and I'm glad thatyou're still open to it, because
I've had this conversation withMackenzie when she and I chatted
a few weeks ago. It's, you know,we're not meant to be alone.
However, it is much better to behappy and alone than together
with somebody and be miserable.
(20:16):
And it does change yourperspective when you go through
that, but it also kind of makesyou a little bit more. Do you
think it makes you a littlekinder? Oh, I know what I was
gonna say. So I sometimes feel,and I have to say, this is a
woman thing, that there's a lotof bad behavior in men nowadays,
(20:40):
and I find what I observe andthrough, you know, the brief
time, you know, the little bitof time that I was back in the
dating pool, which I am gratefulthat I didn't have to spend too
many years in that, because it'sawful. It's crazy, especially
down here, but especially withyour age group. And, you know,
those 20 in your 20s and 30s,and there's a lot of bad
(21:01):
behavior, and I have to say,it's because women are not
holding these men up to a higherstandard. They're letting them
get away with stuff, which, ifyou are with somebody and that's
what you want to do, that's yourprerogative. But if you're, if
it's a casual dating thing, andnow, you know, Anne Marie is
(21:23):
Dayton Ben and or going out withBen and Ben's, you know, doing
crappy things, and then you meetup with Ben, and now you've got
to deal with it, because AnneMarie put up with it. Ben thinks
it's okay. What's your take onthat? I
Unknown (21:35):
do think that we need to be better about holding men
accountable. 100% I have foundthat I I've gotten better at
holding them accountable. I waswith someone relatively
seriously for about two years,and I just was not getting what
I needed from our relationship.
I was like, you we had verydifferent, different schedules,
which was part of it, but Ifinally was just like, This is
(21:58):
not what I deserve. And he waslike, You're right. And I was
like, Okay, well, I'm glad yourecognize it, you know, whether
or not it actually went throughhis head, who knows? But it was
just like,
Kristen Daukas (22:09):
you're right, but you're not gonna get it from
me exactly,
Unknown (22:12):
exactly. And you know, it's just he was not treating
our relationship like it was anadult relationship, and that's
what I'm looking for. So I thinkthe older I get, like, the less
I care about bothering someoneor upsetting someone, because
it's like, Hey, this is what Ineed. I'm an adult. You're an
adult. Can you give it to me?
Yes or no, if not, thank you.
(22:33):
Next, so that's I definitely amtrying to hold men more
accountable for, you know howthey act. I've been on dates
where people have talked to mein a way that I don't like, and
I'm just like, No, this is notgonna work. I will never see you
again. See yourself out. Thankyou. I It's just, I'm it's like,
are you I'm not playing gamesanymore. That's really what it
(22:54):
comes down to. I'm not playinggames anymore.
Kristen Daukas (22:56):
It's exhausting.
It's absolutely exhausting. Andyou go, Wait a minute. I was
doing this crap when I was inhigh school, like in the
beginning of college, I'm 35 andfor me, I was like, I am 50, and
this is some BS. I'm not, youknow, at my age, even you know,
not that I'm single anymore, butjust looking at some of my
friends that are, and it's arunning joke, but it's not that
(23:19):
at our age, like the midlife,post divorce dating. It's like
they're look men are looking fora nurse or a purse. I mean, they
don't want to be single. Theydon't want to be alone. They've
had and they want a wife. AndI'm like, I want a wife who
wouldn't want a wife whowouldn't want somebody to take
care of them, do their laundry.
(23:41):
Do they I want a wife
Unknown (23:43):
Exactly? Yeah. And like, my parents have been
together for, okay, I'm 3536years. So, I mean, they have a
system that works for them. And,you know, my mom is, is a wife,
like she is, like, a great wife.
She's always worked, but like,she like has a way. She wants a
house to look. She wants, youknow, things a certain way. But
(24:04):
my dad, bless his heart, will dohis best to get it to where she
wants it to be, like he and it'sfunny. So like the running joke
my mom and I have, my dad makesa bed every single morning,
every single morning, he putsthe pillows upside down there.
It's like a bird pattern. Thebirds are upside down every
morning. But my mom is like,he's there making the bed. I'm
(24:25):
not gonna complain. I will justturn the pillows around, because
that is my problem, that I'mannoyed by it not his, and he's
doing his right?
Kristen Daukas (24:37):
Don is better than perfect, as one of my
mottos, exactly,
Unknown (24:41):
exactly. So my mom is, my dad gets that done, and then
my mom makes it perfect. Andthat works for them.
Kristen Daukas (24:48):
It works for them. It does. And, you know,
that's what long, long term,really, it's about, you know,
compromising and empathy and,you know, accepting each other
where you are. I think that's abig lesson that you. Learn. You
know, as you get a little bitolder, is, and I try to teach
the you have to meet peoplewhere they are. You can't say, I
need you to be here. And they'relike, I'm not there. You're
(25:10):
like, Well, then why aren't you?
So it's, that's so cute. Whatit? Oh, my light just went off.
So what else? What do you? Whatelse do you? I mean, but going
back to the whole Men BehavingBadly, thing, I hear some
stories, you know, becauseMcKenzie likes to talk, she's a
chatter she's a chatterbox.
She'll tell me some of thestories of some of I know. She
(25:31):
tells me some of the storiesthat she tells me about, some of
the circle that I'm just like,Why? Why did these girls put up
with this? And it just, I'm justamazed by it, because you go,
there's 7 billion people in thisworld. That person who is
cheating on you is not the lastperson that you're ever going to
meet. And so I just, I don't getit, and they're all of you are
(25:54):
so talented and so beautiful andjust so, you know, just great
human beings that I just, itmakes me sad when I hear stories
like that, that the ones thatare willingly staying with
someone who is stepping out onthem,
Unknown (26:08):
yeah, I don't get it like for me with Kent. You know,
I'm just gonna say Kendall, myex. I didn't think that things
were bad enough to leave, and sothen when I found out he cheated
on me, I was like, Okay, nowthey're maybe bad enough. And I
think that the biggest thingthat I realized is things don't
(26:28):
have to be the worst to be badenough to leave. It could just
be that you're not compatible.
It could be that you're lookingfor different things. It could
be that you have differentcommunication styles. If it's
not working for you, you don'thave to force it. You don't have
to wait for someone to step outon you, or, you know, God
forbid, hate you. It can be badenough that it just isn't
working for your relationship.
Kristen Daukas (26:50):
And it doesn't even have to be considered bad
if you just, I mean, it just, ifthis is not working for you, if
this doesn't bring you joy andit doesn't make you happy it's
and that's the other thing thatkills me. Is everyone you know,
you'll talk to people and I'mlike, What do you think about
that? Like, oh, it'll be finewhen we get married. No, it
won't. If you're annoyed by thefact he leaves a plate in the
(27:11):
sink. Now, wait till you getmarried and it's going to be an
if he made dinner that ish isgoing to be all over the
kitchen. It does not get better.
It gets worse, then that's whatI mean by, everybody wants the
wedding and nobody wants themarriage. Yeah,
Unknown (27:25):
and I've said that to my friends that are younger too.
I'm like, if you're this, like,concerned about getting engaged,
or if you're like, not sure youwant to marry this person, you
don't have to marry them. Youdon't have to break up with them
right now, but like, you don'thave to get into that legally
binding commitment, like you canjust if it's not working, it's
not going to be made better onceyou're in a contract,
(27:48):
absolutely, matter
Kristen Daukas (27:49):
of fact, it's just going to intensify by 10.
I'm glad you got out of that.
I'm glad you're happy. And whatI hate that it happened the way
it did, but it happened the wayit was supposed to, is the way I
always look at it, right? And itwas meant to be that way. So
let's talk about something fun.
Am I correct? Am I correct inremembering you're a big Swifty?
I
Unknown (28:08):
am? Yes, I have my taylor swift water bottle right
here. One of my best friends gotthis For there are three of us.
So I have the light pink one.
She has a hot pink one, and thethird one has the light blue
one. I'm a huge, huge hugeTaylor Swift Fan.
Kristen Daukas (28:21):
So did you go to any of her shows for eras? Did?
Yes, I
Unknown (28:26):
was at Houston night two, and I have seen it on the
video on Disney, plus, like,probably five times at this
point. Like I, I'm a giantTaylor Swift Fan. In fact, I so
I got divorced during covid, andI'd wanted to have a divorce
party, and that kind of went outthe window. So I did. The
window. So I did Taylor Swifttheme divorce photo shoot.
Kristen Daukas (28:46):
I love it. Are there pictures of that on your
blog? Actually,
Unknown (28:50):
there are, yeah, I can go and find the link and I can
send that to you, but yes, I
Kristen Daukas (28:56):
Yes, or I can dig for it. Yeah, I'm trying to
remember I love that. That'sgreat. I love the divorce
parties and the wedding dressburning parties. Those are
great. I love that. That's sucha great way of freedom. Well,
where I was really going withthis? Because I love Taylor,
Joe. I didn't get to go to seeher show because I can't justify
that kind of money. But I haveso many friends that went to
Europe this summer, and theywere like, having these amazing
(29:19):
adventures. I had one that wentto Germany, one that went to
France, and another one thatwent to Austria, Australia. No,
it wasn't, wasn't the Austriashows that just got canceled.
Yeah, that was a horrible thing.
Yeah, Amsterdam, Amsterdam. Thatwas the end. That was the other
one. And just had these huge,huge times. But after watching
the show on Disney, I was like,you know, I really should have
(29:40):
remortgaged my house and gone.
Unknown (29:47):
I actually lucked out because, yeah, my my friend who
lives in Texas, was like, canyou get to Texas in two weeks to
go see Taylor Swift? Ticketsalready paid for? And I was
like, Well, I will be getting toTexas for. In two weeks, and I
wore my wedding dress, actually,to the Taylor Swift concert. So
my Taylor Swift dress now,
Kristen Daukas (30:11):
get more use out of that. I don't know where you
stand politically, and this isreally not that piece of it.
However, I'm Have you started tohear the rumors that? Well,
first of all, are you going tojoin in on the if you're a
Kamala fan, the big Swifties forKamala zoom call.
Unknown (30:30):
I have not heard of that, but that sounds like so
much fun,
Kristen Daukas (30:37):
and I only caught the headlines over the
past 24 hours. So there's that,there's the zoom the Swifties
for Kamala. But rumor has it,she's gonna show up next week in
Chicago. Oh,
Unknown (30:51):
oh, that could be, that could be huge, honestly, a
Taylor Swift's endorsement,huge.
Kristen Daukas (30:58):
Yes, ma'am, and it will if all of these Brad's
Chads and dads lost their shitover her being at every every
Kansas City Chiefs football. Canyou imagine their heads are
going to explain they're goingto look like those little voodoo
dolls. They're the bodies arethis big and their heads are
like this. They are going tolose their minds. Because you
(31:22):
and I both know that hercontent, that her core audience,
they're going to listen to her,but she's not going to be like
Kid Rock who goes out there andjust blows steam out of his you
know, she is going to be verythoughtful. I mean, you know, if
you you obviously watched, youknow, her documentary. I mean,
(31:43):
she was very upfront with herdad. She's like, No, I cannot
not say something about thisman. I mean, she's not, she,
they. People just don't give herenough credit for how
intelligent she is in that shecan move literal mountains.
Unknown (31:59):
Yeah, no, I'm, honestly, I am all for a Taylor
Swift endorsement. So actually,there was a rumor that had
already happened. Somebodyscreenshotted something from a
concert, and they were like,she's endorsing Kamala. Because
it was a, like a silhouette ofsomeone in a pantsuit, and it
was one of her dancers from theman segment, like guys. She
(32:19):
hasn't endorsed anybody yet. Ijust thought that was funny.
Just kind of looking for
Kristen Daukas (32:24):
that to calm down exactly, exactly need to
calm down. Yeah, so you'll whenwe get done, we're almost, we're
almost, we're gonna wrap up herein a couple of minutes. But,
yeah, you have to go look atthat. But I just saw that here
over the past 24 hours. So youknow, if there's rumors already
circulating, and obviously, youknow, that's the side that she
(32:46):
sits on, but that's gonna be abig game changer. And you know,
I don't know what JD Vance isgoing to say about those
childless cat ladies at thispoint.
Unknown (32:56):
I mean, I very much am a childless cat lady. I'm
actually catless cat lady. Thisone is a rover I babysit on
rover I don't have my own. Butyes, childless cat ladies for
Kamala, we're gonna own it.
Kristen Daukas (33:13):
Listen like, like I told laughing with
Mackenzie on her episode. I waslike, I don't know, she seems to
be doing pretty well in my book.
Yeah, be a childless cat lady,
Unknown (33:22):
exactly.
Kristen Daukas (33:24):
Caroline. It has been such a delight chatting
with you, and I appreciate youropenness and your honesty in
talking with us about, you know,what was probably a pretty tough
time in your life. But I youknow, it's, it's interesting to
hear how mature you handledthat, and you know how it made
you grow. And I know you'regonna do great things. And you
(33:47):
know, even if you end up being achildless cat lady, you're gonna
be a happy, childless cat.
Unknown (33:52):
I am. Thank you so much for having me, and I'll dig up
those Taylor Swift divorcepictures.
Kristen Daukas (33:59):
Yeah, absolutely Hold on one second. So all
right, everybody, it's time tosay goodbye until next time. May
your cups be full, your mind beopen and your heart full of
kindness, because we are allbattling something. Take care
and talk to you later. As thesaying goes, you don't have to
go home, but you can stay here.
And that's a wrap for thisweek's episode. A big thanks to
(34:20):
my guests for sharing theirstory and to you for listening.
Don't forget to share the showwith your friends and spread the
words and if you'd like to be aguest on the show, the link is
in the show notes till nexttime. Cheers. You.
Kristen daukas, welcome to Conversations on the
(00:05):
rocks, the podcast where thedrink is strong and the stories
are stronger. I'm your host,Kristen daukas, and this isn't
your average chat fest. Here,real people spill the tea
alongside their favorite drinks,from the hilarious to the heart
wrenching, each episode a wildcard. You'll laugh, you may cry,
but you'll definitely learnsomething new. So grab whatever,
(00:26):
what's your whistle and buckleup. It's time to dive into the
raw, the real and theridiculously human. Let's get
this chat party started. Heyeverybody. It's Kristen daukas,
and you are listening to thelatest episode of conversations
on the rocks podcast, the showthat's like your favorite drink,
a little bit of this, a littlebit of that, and a whole lot of
(00:49):
unexpected twists. And this ismy second, or, I'm sorry, my
123, fourth, fourth interviewwith actually, we are cheating a
little bit here. And Caroline,who is my guest today, is a
millennial. She is not a Gen Zor zillennial. One of my guests
was a zillennial, but she saidthat she favored more towards
the millennial side, but you'reon the millennial side, and
(01:12):
that's okay. We accept you too.
Caroline, tell us a little bitabout yourself, and thank you so
much for saying yes, yeah.
Unknown (01:19):
Thank you so much for having me. So I am Caroline. I
am a millennial, solidly amillennial. I just turned 35 I
was born and raised in DC, and Irecently got my graduate degree
from Catholic University inbusiness with concentration in
HR. So that's what I'm doingnow. I also left what I thought
(01:40):
was going to be my dream jobearlier this spring and started
a whole new career. So it's beendefinitely an adventure. It's
been kind of a crazy summer. Oneof my other things about me is
that I have a blog that Istarted in 2014 and it has grown
and evolved, but that is wheremost of my friends have come
(02:00):
from, is from blogging andInstagramming and even Twitter.
So it's funny. It's like, youyou hear growing up, or I did,
you know, don't make friendsfrom the internet, and all my
friends are from either where Iwork or the internet. So
although it's kind of fun, but Ijust, I love telling stories,
and so when I had theopportunity to jump on the
(02:20):
podcast. Wanted to take it Yay.
So
Kristen Daukas (02:23):
it's so funny that you opened with that
because I had, I'm a socialmedia expert. I better be. I've
been doing it for 15 years, andback in the day when Twitter was
fun, I met a huge group ofwomen, so much that, in fact,
that a lot of us are still veryclose friends. And I started
this for the ones of us thatwere local, a little thing
(02:44):
called broads who tweet the BWT.
So our hashtag was BWT, and wewould do meetups and tweet ups,
and we did a couple of retreatsthat was so much fun. And it was
just people would be like, it'sso funny. Like my girl, one of
my close friend's team, when wego out, they're like, Oh, how'd
you guys meet? She's like,Twitter. And people are like,
nah. We're like, Aha. So it's,it's such a fun way, and just
(03:07):
it's, I liken it to, and this isprobably not in your age span,
but way back in the day, in thevery beginning of the interwebs,
when, you know there were chatrooms. And really chat rooms
were, yeah, and you know, we hadour own little, you know, you
had your own little secret code,pos parents on the shoulder,
Unknown (03:33):
yep, no, and I was too young to be in chat rooms. But
Kristen Daukas (03:37):
were you there?
Were you breaking the rules? Butyeah, I started my blog, no go.
Unknown (03:45):
Oh, AOL, had, uh, kids only chat rooms, so I used to,
like, log on and I'd be like,eight years old in chat rooms,
which I don't think my parentsknew anything about it, but it
was just like, oh, this is socool. I can, like, talk to
people, talk to strangers. I waslike, a weird little kid, so it
was like, I'm gonna makefriends.
Kristen Daukas (04:02):
And your your 35 year old self now is like, oh my
god, I'm so lucky.
Unknown (04:08):
Can you imagine you've been kidnapped? Yeah,
Kristen Daukas (04:12):
I'm telling you.
I'm telling you right now Iagree with you, kind of like me
being, you know, a Gen X or as alatch key kid. I'm like, How I
Survived there. I saw a meme acouple of a couple of weeks ago,
and I wish I'd saved it. It waslike, it talking about Gen X.
It's like it said something tothe again, of our parents
weren't trying to kill us, butthey weren't trying to stop it
either. You guys were latchkeykids too.
Unknown (04:35):
Yeah, we had Au Pairs until I was in fifth grade, and
then we just were like, We don'twant them. So we were we had a
carpool situation, so we wouldcome home after school for a
couple hours, and like ourcarpool would just drop us off,
and we'd get into fistfightsabout who could use computer
first. But we'd never burned thehouse down, so I guess you know
no worse for the wear there,
Kristen Daukas (04:57):
and if you didn't burn it down with dial
up. You were pretty good. It wasnever going to be the toaster
was going to be dial upinternet. My kids never had to
hear that sound. Creative Space.
Unknown (05:12):
Yeah, I started so my blog actually started 2014 it
was called Little bitty cityone, and it was kind of about me
finding my voice working in thecity at the time, I still lived
at home. And then I kind of, Irebranded it into the Carol love
when I was a few years afterthat, and it became more of just
(05:34):
like sharing my style more thananything else. I just I tell
people now that I treat my bloglike a paper doll. I just find
things that I like and put themtogether and share. You know,
what's making me happy? It's alot of a lot of dresses and
sneakers. I will put it thatway, like that is my style, but
that's it's what I've been
Kristen Daukas (05:55):
sharing.
Spoilers. There's a lot, there'sa lot, there's also a lot of
glitter, which I like and loveglitter. I was, I was totally
stalking you today, and I waslike, Oh, look at all that
glitter.
Unknown (06:06):
Yeah, very glitter, very pink. I've leaned into
being a girly girl, and thatactually started when I worked
with Mackenzie, because workingat Mission, I didn't really have
that much of a dress code. And Iwas like, Oh, I went from a
financial advisory firm where itwas like, pretty business casual
to like, oh, I can wear brightcolors, and I can wear, like,
fun little skirts, and I canwear sneakers to work, you know,
(06:29):
as long as we were basicallyappropriately covered up and
could move in what we werewearing. So went right back to
what I was doing inkindergarten, wearing shorts
under the skirts because I wasmore comfortable that way, but
I'd be like, moving furniture inin skirts and sneakers. But that
is that really kind of helped mefind my style again, not having
(06:50):
to dress for a financialadvisory firm, and now with a
job I have, we very specificallydo not have a dress code. So
there was someone in the officetoday in shorts, which I thought
was interesting. You know, workappropriate, but still, it's
just like, oh, we really don'thave a dress code here. Well,
Kristen Daukas (07:06):
and if you're still in hospitality, you can't,
Unknown (07:10):
yeah, so I'm more in the corporate side. I it's, it's
actually in an office. But Ithink because we do work with
chefs, we do work with people inrestaurants. It's like, if
you're in a restaurant, ifyou're working in a restaurant,
it's like, no ripped jeans, likeit's and wear the branded shirt.
But we very much let peopleexpress their individuality. Our
(07:34):
founder usually is wearingjoggers and Gucci sneakers,
which cracks me up.
Kristen Daukas (07:38):
Yes, I'm familiar. I'm familiar. I love
it. So tell me a little bitabout your life. How long, how
long have you been in DC proper,
Unknown (07:52):
DC proper, on and off for 10 years. So I moved into DC
when I was 24 I had I reallylucked out. I found my roommate
actually on Craigslist, which, Imean, that could have gone very
differently, but I met Megan onCraigslist. We have this place
in Georgetown, which was insane.
Rent was less than $1,000 amonth to live in Georgetown. Her
(08:15):
boyfriend moved in with us, andI, like, adored him too, like,
I've been to their baby's firstbirthday party. We're still
friends. And then we actuallywere bought out of our
apartment. They gutted it,renovated it, tripled the rent.
But at the time, it was great,because I was moving in with my
then fiance, which we're gettingto, like, the the meat of it,
(08:37):
yeah, so my fiance and I movedout, and then we lived in Glover
Park for another two years,until I got divorced and moved
home, and then covid hit, and Imoved back to DC in 2021 and it
has been a journey, and it'sfunny because I actually moved
back to the same complex,different building, different
(08:58):
street, but I moved back to Thesame complex I lived in with my
ex husband.
Kristen Daukas (09:03):
All right, so there's a lot to unpack there.
And I How long were you married?
Unknown (09:09):
We were only married for about a year, but everything
happened very fast. So we metMarch of 2016 engaged, April
2017 married in April of 2018separated in the summer of 2019
so everything was like, very,very, very fast. So
Kristen Daukas (09:30):
35 year old Caroline looking back on that,
what mistakes or what? And Ihate using the word mistakes,
but I'm going to use it forthis, not for this, but just for
the purpose of what, whathappened? Because that's fast,
even for your age, that's that'sor, actually, let me rephrase
that, even for old people,that's fast. Yeah,
Unknown (09:52):
so while I was getting divorced, so this is kind of
jumping the gun a little bit. II'm not saying
Kristen Daukas (09:57):
I don't need, I don't need dirty I don't need.
The dirty, nitty, ditty, grittydetails. But you know, you met,
you got engaged, you gotmarried, you got divorced. Like,
no,
Unknown (10:07):
um, well, when I was kind of going through it all, I
realized that, like, basically,I married the first guy to ask
me, and it just seemed too goodto be true at the time. Like,
within a couple months of usdating, he bought me a new Mac
because my computer died. And Iwas like, Oh, this guy can take
care of me. Like, that's a goodsign he was military. And
(10:27):
there's kind of that like, jokeabout, like, Oh, everybody,
like, moves quickly in themilitary. It's not a joke. It
really happens. And he did areally good job of kind of
fooling everybody into usthinking that he was a
completely different person thanhe was, and I also was
completely settling, to becompletely honest. Like it was
(10:49):
just like, Okay, this guy wantsto marry me. I guess I'll marry
him. It kind of turns into that,like, Oh, this guy is giving me
attention. That's nice. Like,you know, if he if we want to
move this forward, like, let'smove it forward like, this
works. This will be fine. And itjust there were red flags that I
totally ignored, and yeah, justnot a great situation, and I hid
(11:12):
a lot of stuff that was going onfrom my parents, from my
friends. Of
Kristen Daukas (11:16):
course you did.
Why do you think you were insuch You said it yourself that
he was the first guy that askedyou, do you feel like you So,
what were you 25 at that time?
Unknown (11:26):
I just had turned 26 when we met. Yeah. So, mid 20s.
Okay,
Kristen Daukas (11:32):
so, did you feel pressure? Did you feel like you
were getting pressure from yourfamily, from your friends, from
society? As I told you before,I'm a huge societal pressure on
girls to be in relationships isa huge soapbox of mine, because
I think it's ridiculous, and Ithink it's very unhealthy for
our young ladies. Yeah. I mean,the thing women, period, young
(11:55):
girl, yeah, yeah. The
Unknown (11:56):
thing that's weird is that, like, I was so happy
being, like, the third, fifth,seventh, wheel. Like, when my
friends would go out in groups,like, I never mind it. If there
was a restaurant I want to goto, I would like, I had a group
of people that I would just belike, Hey, I made us
reservations. Like, let's go. Ididn't even really mind being
single. But I think more thanyou know, my parents or my
(12:17):
friends pressuring me, it wasmore just like I grew up
watching Disney movies and romcoms and, you know, Reese
Witherspoon movies where it'slike, okay, happy ending. Like,
everybody gets here, happyending. I was just kind of
looking for mine. I
Kristen Daukas (12:31):
see it a lot in the south, right? And, you know,
it's the if you're not marriedby 25 you're an old maid, right?
And it just, there's the onething I've always told my girls
is, like, I want you to get Iwant whether you get married or
not. You know, I want you to behappy, if that, but you've got
to be happy with yourself first.
I always go through that. Isaid, but your 20s, like, go,
(12:51):
your 20s are to, like, go andlike, do the things and not have
to worry about anything oranyone. It's like that's when it
is time for you to live yourlife. Because should you choose
to settle down at some pointyou're gonna have a lot you got
the rest of your life, if allthings work out. Well, was it
hard to come to the realization?
(13:13):
And I'm sure it didn't take verylong, because once those vows
are said, I've said a couple oftimes that, I think a lot of
times young ladies, especiallynow, are more interested in the
wedding than the marriage. Andnot not just ladies. I think the
guys are too. I think they'remore interested in the wedding
than they are the actualmarriage itself. Because once
(13:33):
those party favors are done andonce the thank you cards have
been written, and you're intothree months into what are we
going to have for dinner? Didyou pick up the cat litter? Did
you do that? You're all of asudden like, Oh, this is not as
sexy as all that other stuff.
Yeah.
Unknown (13:49):
Well, I kind of lucked out. And I'll say I lucked out
in that he was on a businesstrip for a couple of months. So
he worked for a startup that wasopening in Arizona. So he was
out in Arizona, and I got amessage from a girl in Arizona,
and I called a hey girl message.
I was like, just to let you knowyour I didn't know that you
existed, but your husband and Ihad been having an affair, and I
(14:13):
wanted you to know as soon as Ifound out. And honestly, to this
day, I say, God bless Haley fromArizona, because she was kind of
the catalyst for me to realizethat I had not been treated well
and that I didn't think thingswere going to change and they
were just getting worse. And sohonestly, God bless Hailey from
Arizona. So I do say that Ireally love yay Haley. Like the
(14:36):
fact that I was gonna say shehad a lot of balls to tell me
that, and I I first didn'tbelieve her. I was like, oh, you
know, I think you might beconfused. And then she went on
to tell me about one of histattoos in detail. And I was
like, Okay, well, probably thesame guy, and I actually called
(14:58):
him. Him,
Kristen Daukas (15:00):
I had a question about Haley. Was he having the
affair with Haley? Yeah. Oh, hewas so Haley was just like, you
are not gonna two time, both ofus good for her. Well, not good
for her. I mean, you know, Inever see here's the thing. I
never blame the other woman. Inever do. People are always like
(15:21):
that. You fill in the blank wordyou want to use for that harlot
that this that other, and I'mlike, Honey, it ain't, I mean,
she didn't just walk up to himand go, Hey, you're married.
Let's have a let's, let's, let'shave an affair. You know, I am
sure the onus was on him.
Unknown (15:39):
Yeah. And I called him that day, and I said, Who's
Haley? And he goes, I think youknow. And I said, Okay, Megan
and I are going to a concerttonight. Do not call me. Do not
text me. We will talk about thiswhen I get home, but I'm going
to the Maren Morin concert,leave me Maren Morris concert,
leave me alone. Do
Kristen Daukas (15:58):
you think he even cared? I know that sounds
really harsh, but people likethat, and just I've known people
like that, and I don't want tojust say guys or men. I know
people that they're just like,All right, next, next. And I
don't mean to make it sound socallous, but
Unknown (16:16):
I think he cared that he got caught because I was the
one taking care of him. Myfamily was taking care of us. I
think he was kind of in like anOH SHIT kind of moment where he
realized he just messed up goodthing he had going on, because
he had me in the palm of hishand, and he had my parents
believing that he was a greatguy, and everything just came
(16:39):
crashing down and it was hisfault, Kitty, yeah,
Kristen Daukas (16:44):
I babysit for those of you, not for for those
of you that are not watching.
There's a cat in the in thescene right now, black cat,
yeah, and kind of ominous withthis conversation that we're
having, yeah. So yay for Haley.
And I would love for you to sithere and tell me that now you
guys are BFFs, but I'm surethat's
Unknown (17:05):
not the case. No, we've never so we spoke again, one
other time when I had a friendwho's a lawyer being like, get a
copy of their text thread. And Iwas like, hey, Haley, so sorry
to drag you back into this.
Would you mind? And she said, Iwas waiting for you to ask me
up. Held on to all of them, andshe sent me all of the
screenshots.
Kristen Daukas (17:21):
That's amazing.
That's amazing. Wow. So Well,I'm sorry that that happened to
you, in a way, but I'm glad,like you said, I'm glad that you
found out sooner rather thanlater. I remember a couple that
I knew when we lived inPennsylvania, a lot, you know,
20 some years ago, and they, hethe guy, called off the divorce,
(17:43):
right? Or no, I'm sorry. Theygot married and then divorced
within like 90 days. And Iremember somebody saying to her,
and I have said this to otherpeople, not to trivial,
trivialize, trivialize it. Butit's like, it's better to find
out in the beginning, when allyou're having to do is split
furniture and not kids. Yes,100%
Unknown (18:04):
and he actually, when we were engaged, was trying to
get me to have kids with himbefore we were married. And I'm
kind of wondering what his anglewas now, but I'm so glad there
are no kids in the mix thatwould have been so much harder.
Permanence,
Kristen Daukas (18:19):
that's what his angle was permanence, because he
knew he was going to be a shit.
You're probably right. Yeah, hedid. I mean, because those kind
of people are like that, andthey don't change.
Unknown (18:33):
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(18:56):
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shouldn't you be a listener too?
Kristen Daukas (19:03):
What's your outlook on with relationships
now in your mid 30s? Um,
Unknown (19:08):
I've had a couple of relationships since then, and
it's almost like with everysingle one. And I think this is
probably the same for everybody.
I've just learned. I've learnedlike what I will and won't
accept. I've learned what makesme sad or angry from people I'm
a lot better at voicing that,like, Hey, you did this thing. I
didn't like it. I didn't likeyour tone. Don't take that tone
with me. Or I didn't like howyou didn't take my feelings
(19:32):
seriously. And I also have foundthat, like, the more honest I
am, the more receptive these menare. So I think it's just I'm
looking at the whole thing isjust a learning experience. But
certainly not going to jump intogetting married to anybody
quickly. Again, I would like to,but just definitely get, want to
take my time with it. Now I
Kristen Daukas (19:55):
have a thought that just completely smoked out
of my head, speaking of.
Relationships, and I'm glad thatyou're still open to it, because
I've had this conversation withMackenzie when she and I chatted
a few weeks ago. It's, you know,we're not meant to be alone.
However, it is much better to behappy and alone than together
with somebody and be miserable.
(20:16):
And it does change yourperspective when you go through
that, but it also kind of makesyou a little bit more. Do you
think it makes you a littlekinder? Oh, I know what I was
gonna say. So I sometimes feel,and I have to say, this is a
woman thing, that there's a lotof bad behavior in men nowadays,
(20:40):
and I find what I observe andthrough, you know, the brief
time, you know, the little bitof time that I was back in the
dating pool, which I am gratefulthat I didn't have to spend too
many years in that, because it'sawful. It's crazy, especially
down here, but especially withyour age group. And, you know,
those 20 in your 20s and 30s,and there's a lot of bad
(21:01):
behavior, and I have to say,it's because women are not
holding these men up to a higherstandard. They're letting them
get away with stuff, which, ifyou are with somebody and that's
what you want to do, that's yourprerogative. But if you're, if
it's a casual dating thing, andnow, you know, Anne Marie is
(21:23):
Dayton Ben and or going out withBen and Ben's, you know, doing
crappy things, and then you meetup with Ben, and now you've got
to deal with it, because AnneMarie put up with it. Ben thinks
it's okay. What's your take onthat? I
Unknown (21:35):
do think that we need to be better about holding men
accountable. 100% I have foundthat I I've gotten better at
holding them accountable. I waswith someone relatively
seriously for about two years,and I just was not getting what
I needed from our relationship.
I was like, you we had verydifferent, different schedules,
which was part of it, but Ifinally was just like, This is
(21:58):
not what I deserve. And he waslike, You're right. And I was
like, Okay, well, I'm glad yourecognize it, you know, whether
or not it actually went throughhis head, who knows? But it was
just like,
Kristen Daukas (22:09):
you're right, but you're not gonna get it from
me exactly,
Unknown (22:12):
exactly. And you know, it's just he was not treating
our relationship like it was anadult relationship, and that's
what I'm looking for. So I thinkthe older I get, like, the less
I care about bothering someoneor upsetting someone, because
it's like, Hey, this is what Ineed. I'm an adult. You're an
adult. Can you give it to me?
Yes or no, if not, thank you.
(22:33):
Next, so that's I definitely amtrying to hold men more
accountable for, you know howthey act. I've been on dates
where people have talked to mein a way that I don't like, and
I'm just like, No, this is notgonna work. I will never see you
again. See yourself out. Thankyou. I It's just, I'm it's like,
are you I'm not playing gamesanymore. That's really what it
(22:54):
comes down to. I'm not playinggames anymore.
Kristen Daukas (22:56):
It's exhausting.
It's absolutely exhausting. Andyou go, Wait a minute. I was
doing this crap when I was inhigh school, like in the
beginning of college, I'm 35 andfor me, I was like, I am 50, and
this is some BS. I'm not, youknow, at my age, even you know,
not that I'm single anymore, butjust looking at some of my
friends that are, and it's arunning joke, but it's not that
(23:19):
at our age, like the midlife,post divorce dating. It's like
they're look men are looking fora nurse or a purse. I mean, they
don't want to be single. Theydon't want to be alone. They've
had and they want a wife. AndI'm like, I want a wife who
wouldn't want a wife whowouldn't want somebody to take
care of them, do their laundry.
(23:41):
Do they I want a wife
Unknown (23:43):
Exactly? Yeah. And like, my parents have been
together for, okay, I'm 3536years. So, I mean, they have a
system that works for them. And,you know, my mom is, is a wife,
like she is, like, a great wife.
She's always worked, but like,she like has a way. She wants a
house to look. She wants, youknow, things a certain way. But
(24:04):
my dad, bless his heart, will dohis best to get it to where she
wants it to be, like he and it'sfunny. So like the running joke
my mom and I have, my dad makesa bed every single morning,
every single morning, he putsthe pillows upside down there.
It's like a bird pattern. Thebirds are upside down every
morning. But my mom is like,he's there making the bed. I'm
(24:25):
not gonna complain. I will justturn the pillows around, because
that is my problem, that I'mannoyed by it not his, and he's
doing his right?
Kristen Daukas (24:37):
Don is better than perfect, as one of my
mottos, exactly,
Unknown (24:41):
exactly. So my mom is, my dad gets that done, and then
my mom makes it perfect. Andthat works for them.
Kristen Daukas (24:48):
It works for them. It does. And, you know,
that's what long, long term,really, it's about, you know,
compromising and empathy and,you know, accepting each other
where you are. I think that's abig lesson that you. Learn. You
know, as you get a little bitolder, is, and I try to teach
the you have to meet peoplewhere they are. You can't say, I
need you to be here. And they'relike, I'm not there. You're
(25:10):
like, Well, then why aren't you?
So it's, that's so cute. Whatit? Oh, my light just went off.
So what else? What do you? Whatelse do you? I mean, but going
back to the whole Men BehavingBadly, thing, I hear some
stories, you know, becauseMcKenzie likes to talk, she's a
chatter she's a chatterbox.
She'll tell me some of thestories of some of I know. She
(25:31):
tells me some of the storiesthat she tells me about, some of
the circle that I'm just like,Why? Why did these girls put up
with this? And it just, I'm justamazed by it, because you go,
there's 7 billion people in thisworld. That person who is
cheating on you is not the lastperson that you're ever going to
meet. And so I just, I don't getit, and they're all of you are
(25:54):
so talented and so beautiful andjust so, you know, just great
human beings that I just, itmakes me sad when I hear stories
like that, that the ones thatare willingly staying with
someone who is stepping out onthem,
Unknown (26:08):
yeah, I don't get it like for me with Kent. You know,
I'm just gonna say Kendall, myex. I didn't think that things
were bad enough to leave, and sothen when I found out he cheated
on me, I was like, Okay, nowthey're maybe bad enough. And I
think that the biggest thingthat I realized is things don't
(26:28):
have to be the worst to be badenough to leave. It could just
be that you're not compatible.
It could be that you're lookingfor different things. It could
be that you have differentcommunication styles. If it's
not working for you, you don'thave to force it. You don't have
to wait for someone to step outon you, or, you know, God
forbid, hate you. It can be badenough that it just isn't
working for your relationship.
Kristen Daukas (26:50):
And it doesn't even have to be considered bad
if you just, I mean, it just, ifthis is not working for you, if
this doesn't bring you joy andit doesn't make you happy it's
and that's the other thing thatkills me. Is everyone you know,
you'll talk to people and I'mlike, What do you think about
that? Like, oh, it'll be finewhen we get married. No, it
won't. If you're annoyed by thefact he leaves a plate in the
(27:11):
sink. Now, wait till you getmarried and it's going to be an
if he made dinner that ish isgoing to be all over the
kitchen. It does not get better.
It gets worse, then that's whatI mean by, everybody wants the
wedding and nobody wants themarriage. Yeah,
Unknown (27:25):
and I've said that to my friends that are younger too.
I'm like, if you're this, like,concerned about getting engaged,
or if you're like, not sure youwant to marry this person, you
don't have to marry them. Youdon't have to break up with them
right now, but like, you don'thave to get into that legally
binding commitment, like you canjust if it's not working, it's
not going to be made better onceyou're in a contract,
(27:48):
absolutely, matter
Kristen Daukas (27:49):
of fact, it's just going to intensify by 10.
I'm glad you got out of that.
I'm glad you're happy. And whatI hate that it happened the way
it did, but it happened the wayit was supposed to, is the way I
always look at it, right? And itwas meant to be that way. So
let's talk about something fun.
Am I correct? Am I correct inremembering you're a big Swifty?
I
Unknown (28:08):
am? Yes, I have my taylor swift water bottle right
here. One of my best friends gotthis For there are three of us.
So I have the light pink one.
She has a hot pink one, and thethird one has the light blue
one. I'm a huge, huge hugeTaylor Swift Fan.
Kristen Daukas (28:21):
So did you go to any of her shows for eras? Did?
Yes, I
Unknown (28:26):
was at Houston night two, and I have seen it on the
video on Disney, plus, like,probably five times at this
point. Like I, I'm a giantTaylor Swift Fan. In fact, I so
I got divorced during covid, andI'd wanted to have a divorce
party, and that kind of went outthe window. So I did. The
window. So I did Taylor Swifttheme divorce photo shoot.
Kristen Daukas (28:46):
I love it. Are there pictures of that on your
blog? Actually,
Unknown (28:50):
there are, yeah, I can go and find the link and I can
send that to you, but yes, I
Kristen Daukas (28:56):
Yes, or I can dig for it. Yeah, I'm trying to
remember I love that. That'sgreat. I love the divorce
parties and the wedding dressburning parties. Those are
great. I love that. That's sucha great way of freedom. Well,
where I was really going withthis? Because I love Taylor,
Joe. I didn't get to go to seeher show because I can't justify
that kind of money. But I haveso many friends that went to
Europe this summer, and theywere like, having these amazing
(29:19):
adventures. I had one that wentto Germany, one that went to
France, and another one thatwent to Austria, Australia. No,
it wasn't, wasn't the Austriashows that just got canceled.
Yeah, that was a horrible thing.
Yeah, Amsterdam, Amsterdam. Thatwas the end. That was the other
one. And just had these huge,huge times. But after watching
the show on Disney, I was like,you know, I really should have
(29:40):
remortgaged my house and gone.
Unknown (29:47):
I actually lucked out because, yeah, my my friend who
lives in Texas, was like, canyou get to Texas in two weeks to
go see Taylor Swift? Ticketsalready paid for? And I was
like, Well, I will be getting toTexas for. In two weeks, and I
wore my wedding dress, actually,to the Taylor Swift concert. So
my Taylor Swift dress now,
Kristen Daukas (30:11):
get more use out of that. I don't know where you
stand politically, and this isreally not that piece of it.
However, I'm Have you started tohear the rumors that? Well,
first of all, are you going tojoin in on the if you're a
Kamala fan, the big Swifties forKamala zoom call.
Unknown (30:30):
I have not heard of that, but that sounds like so
much fun,
Kristen Daukas (30:37):
and I only caught the headlines over the
past 24 hours. So there's that,there's the zoom the Swifties
for Kamala. But rumor has it,she's gonna show up next week in
Chicago. Oh,
Unknown (30:51):
oh, that could be, that could be huge, honestly, a
Taylor Swift's endorsement,huge.
Kristen Daukas (30:58):
Yes, ma'am, and it will if all of these Brad's
Chads and dads lost their shitover her being at every every
Kansas City Chiefs football. Canyou imagine their heads are
going to explain they're goingto look like those little voodoo
dolls. They're the bodies arethis big and their heads are
like this. They are going tolose their minds. Because you
(31:22):
and I both know that hercontent, that her core audience,
they're going to listen to her,but she's not going to be like
Kid Rock who goes out there andjust blows steam out of his you
know, she is going to be verythoughtful. I mean, you know, if
you you obviously watched, youknow, her documentary. I mean,
(31:43):
she was very upfront with herdad. She's like, No, I cannot
not say something about thisman. I mean, she's not, she,
they. People just don't give herenough credit for how
intelligent she is in that shecan move literal mountains.
Unknown (31:59):
Yeah, no, I'm, honestly, I am all for a Taylor
Swift endorsement. So actually,there was a rumor that had
already happened. Somebodyscreenshotted something from a
concert, and they were like,she's endorsing Kamala. Because
it was a, like a silhouette ofsomeone in a pantsuit, and it
was one of her dancers from theman segment, like guys. She
(32:19):
hasn't endorsed anybody yet. Ijust thought that was funny.
Just kind of looking for
Kristen Daukas (32:24):
that to calm down exactly, exactly need to
calm down. Yeah, so you'll whenwe get done, we're almost, we're
almost, we're gonna wrap up herein a couple of minutes. But,
yeah, you have to go look atthat. But I just saw that here
over the past 24 hours. So youknow, if there's rumors already
circulating, and obviously, youknow, that's the side that she
(32:46):
sits on, but that's gonna be abig game changer. And you know,
I don't know what JD Vance isgoing to say about those
childless cat ladies at thispoint.
Unknown (32:56):
I mean, I very much am a childless cat lady. I'm
actually catless cat lady. Thisone is a rover I babysit on
rover I don't have my own. Butyes, childless cat ladies for
Kamala, we're gonna own it.
Kristen Daukas (33:13):
Listen like, like I told laughing with
Mackenzie on her episode. I waslike, I don't know, she seems to
be doing pretty well in my book.
Yeah, be a childless cat lady,
Unknown (33:22):
exactly.
Kristen Daukas (33:24):
Caroline. It has been such a delight chatting
with you, and I appreciate youropenness and your honesty in
talking with us about, you know,what was probably a pretty tough
time in your life. But I youknow, it's, it's interesting to
hear how mature you handledthat, and you know how it made
you grow. And I know you'regonna do great things. And you
(33:47):
know, even if you end up being achildless cat lady, you're gonna
be a happy, childless cat.
Unknown (33:52):
I am. Thank you so much for having me, and I'll dig up
those Taylor Swift divorcepictures.
Kristen Daukas (33:59):
Yeah, absolutely Hold on one second. So all
right, everybody, it's time tosay goodbye until next time. May
your cups be full, your mind beopen and your heart full of
kindness, because we are allbattling something. Take care
and talk to you later. As thesaying goes, you don't have to
go home, but you can stay here.
And that's a wrap for thisweek's episode. A big thanks to
(34:20):
my guests for sharing theirstory and to you for listening.
Don't forget to share the showwith your friends and spread the
words and if you'd like to be aguest on the show, the link is
in the show notes till nexttime. Cheers. You.
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