August 20, 2024 • 40 mins
This week, we dig into LGBTQ+ representation in media from the Gen Z perspective. I'm joined by guest Ariana "Ari" Mrdjenovich as we explore progress, challenges, and the future of inclusive storytelling. Ari, a 25-year-old Gen Z member, shares personal experiences and perspectives on the importance of diverse characters and relationships in TV, movies, and media.
The conversation includes various examples, such as shows like Pose, Sense8, Schitt's Creek, and Bridgerton. It discusses the impact of positive and problematic tropes, highlighting the necessity for authentic LGBTQ+ characters that go beyond stereotypes. The discussion also addresses the pushback against increased representation and the significance of media reflecting the diversity within the LGBTQ+ community.
Throughout the episode, insightful commentary is provided on the influence of representation in shaping societal attitudes and increasing visibility for marginalized groups.
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Kristen Daukas (00:00):
Kristen, welcome to Conversations on the rocks,
(00:06):
the podcast where the drink isstrong and the stories are
stronger. I'm your host, Kristendaukas, and this isn't your
average chat fest. Here, realpeople spill the tea alongside
their favorite drinks, from thehilarious to the heart
wrenching, each episode a wildcard. You'll laugh, you may cry,
but you'll definitely learnsomething new. So grab whatever,
(00:26):
what's your whistle and buckleup. It's time to dive into the
raw, the real and theridiculously human. Let's get
this chat party started. Heyeverybody, it's Kristen, and you
are listening to the latestepisode of conversations on the
rocks, the show that is asrandom as the Tumbleweed that
(00:47):
rolls through my head. And weare doing our second episode of
my very special Gen Z focus. Andwith me today, I have Ariana
mergenievich. We know her isAri, and I just want y'all to
know that's only the second timeI've ever said her last name,
(01:09):
and I got it right. And becausemy last name is Doukas, I'm very
particular about that, becauseit's like, I taught the girls at
a really young age. And I don't,I want to hear how you would do
this to correct people. They'relike, I don't, you know,
because, of course, it's daukas,and you know what, Dukakis, I
mean, like, we're not greatpeople. We're Lithuanian, yeah.
(01:30):
And so I finally taught that,and this is when I met their
dad. I had to do this, which wasHocus Pocus daukas, right? And
so, and so, and they were like,I don't want to correct
somebody. I'm like, No, you needto, it's your name, otherwise
you're going to be doing thisyour entire life. So did you
have a little, like, rhymeything or something to help
people with your last name? Anddid I get it right the second
(01:52):
time? Yeah, you did
Unknown (01:55):
with the last name.
Honestly, I viewed that as alost cause. I was like, people.
It was like, I also playedbaseball so and people got my
first and last name wrong. So itwas like, every time I was up to
bat, it was like, uh, Brianna,more something like, they just
couldn't say it. So the onething I do correct people on is
(02:16):
my first name. And I always justsay, like, are Yana, like a
pirate. And that usually sticks.
That's usually my my ringer,Ariana and Ariel and Adriana,
all that stuff. Ariana.
Kristen Daukas (02:31):
So like, if you're like me, like when you
make a reservation and they go,how do you spell that? I always
like, spell it however you wantto. Yeah.
Unknown (02:39):
Well actually, I have 11 letters my last name, so it
goes perfectly with the MickeyMouse theme song. So you can do
M, Marty, J, E, N, O, V, I, C,H,
Kristen Daukas (02:49):
oh my god. I love it. I think Sydney tried to
tell me something like that andbut she she even messed that up.
So you guys, Ari, who is we'rehow we I know her as, and that's
how we're going to refer to asthroughout this is a very close
friend of my middle Sydney, andshe lives in the lovely area of
Pittsburgh, Pennsylvania, homeof the black and gold
(03:12):
everything.
Unknown (03:13):
Oh yeah, Steel City.
Kristen Daukas (03:16):
So I've known you now for like, a couple of
years. Has it been a couple ofyears?
Unknown (03:20):
I think it's been a little over one
Kristen Daukas (03:22):
I think How long have you been at the same job
with Sid and I started working
Unknown (03:28):
together, like two and a half years ago, but we didn't
really fully come together asfriends for a while, which I
don't I don't even know how thathappened, but
Kristen Daukas (03:37):
Yeah, same considering how good friends you
are now, tell us a little bitabout yourself. Well, I'm
Unknown (03:42):
25 years old. I'm going to be turning 26 and that's
coming up soon, in August. My 26is a very daunting age. It's the
insurance list year of life. SoI work at the melting pot,
singing fondue,
Kristen Daukas (03:57):
hopefully not literally, because that would be
really messy.
Unknown (04:00):
I'm lucky to be one of the servers that have not
spilled anything on on anyguests. There's some horror
stories out there, for sure, hotpots plus guests is not it's not
a good combo,
Kristen Daukas (04:12):
for sure. Not at all. But
Unknown (04:14):
yeah, I'm working at the melting pot. I'm going back
to school in the fall, going tobe taking ASL classes to
eventually be an ASLinterpreter. So I love it.
Kristen Daukas (04:26):
I love it. So last week, I had my eldest child
who is the exact same age asyou. I didn't realize that
you're a month older thanMackenzie, because her birthday
is in September. She'll be 26and everyone who knows me and
wants to start getting intoanything or any conversation.
Knows how much I love yourgeneration. I think your
(04:47):
generation is definitely goingto save, if anything can save
our world right now, it's yourgeneration, Gen X. We don't
care. We don't you know, nobodypaying attention. Us our entire
life. So why should we care?
Now? I love the meme. It saysthat we're the generation
between, you know, Millennialsand Boomers, and just watching
them, you know, go at it. We'relike, peace out. But I love your
(05:09):
generation. I have always gottenso much energy out of you guys,
and I really do you're you'regoing to do remarkable things.
You guys are. You're not afraidto push back. You know you you
recognize what the quality oflife is that you want. There's
just so much good about you.
(05:31):
You're very fluid. You're notafraid to be who you are. And I
think a lot of that. And youknow, well, I know in SIDS and
her sisters. It's a lot. It'sbecause of my generation, right?
Because, you know, we were kindof that first gen. Well, again,
we were the Forgottengeneration. So we were just
like, we're going to do thingsour way, right? And so we kind
(05:53):
of set the set the table foryou, if you will. But when you
and I first started talking, Iwas very intrigued by your
topic, and it's one that I thinkis so interesting because it's
not one that we really thinkabout too much, and we really
need to a little bit more, andthat is the LGBTQ representation
(06:18):
in media. Talk to me a littlebit about that. I
Unknown (06:21):
mean, this is something that I've always been kind of
passionate about, because I'mgay, so like growing up in that
kind of, I don't know, growingup as gay, you look for yourself
as just like a person. You lookfor yourself in media. You want
to see reflection so you canrelate. Because I feel like
(06:42):
that's what media is all about.
Like TV shows, if you want towatch love stories that give you
hope for the love that you'llone day have. And like, I don't
know. I just feel like that'slike the beauty of television.
And so I don't know it's justsomething I've been passionate
about. I feel like wheneveryou're able, and also, honestly,
I think it impacts society, likewhenever close minded, you could
(07:05):
say closed minded people, seesomebody in maybe a minority
group that they maybe in reallife, don't agree with that
lifestyle or whatever, and thenthey fall in love with a
character. I think that impactsthem. And I think that it like
turns tides in society, whetherit be something just as small as
somebody like that, you know,that kind of situation, I just
(07:29):
think it's important.
Kristen Daukas (07:33):
And you're right, it is very important. And
you know, I've thinking back asyou were saying that over the
past several years, and it'snice that over the past several
years, I can't even say adecade, it hasn't been a decade.
It's only been in the pastseveral years, you're starting
to see your mainstreamcompanies, your big
corporations, are starting to dothis. And you know, you'll get
(07:53):
that. I'm trying to remember,we're just going to say it was
Kellogg, I don't know if it was,Don't come at me if it wasn't,
where they had, you know, twodads making waffles for their
kid, right? And then you alwayshave the backlash of people
going, oh my god, I'm nevergonna buy your waffles again.
And they're like, our waffles,yeah? But there's still not
(08:16):
enough of that, yeah? And is itever any more evident than it is
right now, where we stand as asociety and the political nature
of everything that's going on.
Do you think we'll ever win? Dowe have to wait for all of these
people to die before we startseeing some equality? Because
(08:36):
you know me, I'm a big I love mygays. I love them. I will, mama
bear the shit out of them,anytime, anywhere. And it
really, it ticks me off. Itreally does. And I sorry. I
could go on and on and on aboutit. No,
Unknown (08:54):
the passion is real.
Like, I think it's, I feel likethere is so much backlash and
like, in regards to, like, justwaiting for people to die off.
Unfortunately, that kind ofmindset is just, it's always
gonna exist. And honestly, no,you're right. It's like, because
these people are, like,conservative people that don't
like those types of people arehaving the most kids. They're
(09:17):
having families of 18, you know,right? No,
Kristen Daukas (09:22):
you're right about that. And you learn what
you live, which is exactly thatis never going to change. You
learn what you live, and ifyou're if your parents hate,
you're going to hate Yeah. Whatare some of the more significant
milestones or turning pointsthat you've seen in the
representation for our gaycommunity over the years,
(09:44):
honestly.
Unknown (09:45):
So I mean, there's the L word, The L Word has a lot of,
I would say a lot of pros andcons. There's a lot of really
terrible representation in LWord. But I think the beautiful
thing about that TV show is thati. It's just normal. That's just
like, it's just the show. Andit's like there is a heavy focus
(10:06):
on everyone being lesbians, butit's like, this is just a show
about lesbians, for lesbiansliving in LA, just like living
their little lesbian lives. Andthat's just, it's just normal.
Kristen Daukas (10:16):
And if you and here's my thing on that too,
where it goes back to Anita,it's like, I'm sorry if you
don't like it, turn it the Foff. Yeah, go find all in the
family, because that probablysuits some of these people a
little bit.
Unknown (10:28):
Yeah, and that's the thing. It's like, for every you
look at 10 shows, for every ninethat there are straight, there
might be one that has, like, onesmall queer storyline, and I
don't know, I just thinkincorporating those little roles
creating some sense of normalcy,like they're out there, gay
people are out there, transpeople are out there. It's just
(10:52):
like it should be reflected,because media is a reflection of
reality.
Kristen Daukas (10:58):
I think we have come a long way with being a lot
of people have become moreaccepting of our gay friends.
What I am seeing a really,really tough time with these
people trying to deal with nowis our trans and it's almost
(11:20):
like, okay, it's like one stepforward, two steps back. We get
one step forward with our, youknow, our gays and our lesbians,
right? Our gays, and then thenfrom along the trans, quote,
unquote, right? I'm saying thatin a horrible way. But then it's
like two steps back. Do you findyourself getting kind of
everybody getting lumped intoone bowl altogether. Does that
(11:45):
make sense? Because it just,it's like you don't hear as
much, or let me rephrase that,I'm not hearing as much roaring
over the gay community now,everything's about the trans
community, and a lot
Unknown (12:01):
it's like, it's shifted. They just took, I
think, the same rhetoric, andthen just like, shifted it
toward this other group. And Ithink you're right. It's like,
oh, I'm cool. You want to lovewho you want to love, whatever,
but I can't with, like, thesepronouns and all this stuff.
It's, it's like, that's too far.
Yeah, it and I just think it's alack of understanding. We go
(12:22):
back, back in the day it gave agay bar. They were getting
stormed by the police because itwas just like it was indecent.
And I think a lot of the stuffgoing on out there is, is, it's
just transferring to a differentenemy. It's, it's unfortunate,
and I think that it's like, andgoing back to like, the
(12:45):
representation in media, like inin a lot of these shows, when
there is a trans character, it'slike they were deceiving
everybody the whole time. And Ithink that representation bleeds
into the reality and how peopleview trans people like, Oh,
you're you were concealing this,like, deep, dark secret this
whole time. You know what Imean? Like, I don't know. I
(13:07):
definitely think trans issuesare like, way less accepted and
way less like, the common personisn't going to be as for it, or
as accepting. You know what Imean?
Kristen Daukas (13:25):
In the beautiful thing about the human race, I
guess, is that we're alldifferent. We're all unique. And
I know it seems so simplistic,but sometimes I am a very
simplistic person, and it makessense to me in the whole Why
can't like I don't care. I don'tcare what somebody else does. If
(13:47):
it's not harming someone else,if you're harming someone or
something, then yes, I have anissue with it. I may. You know,
I'm not a church going person,does that make me not a
Christian? No, it doesn't makeme not a Christian, but I'm just
not a church going person. Youwant to go to church, go to
church. I'm not going to thinkless of you or more of you. You
shouldn't think less or more ofme. So I just it, just I'm so I
(14:11):
have, even though I do socialmedia for a living, I have to
stay off of it unless I'mworking, because it is just a
dumpster fire. Our world and ourhumanity is just a dumpster
fire. But anyways, we could talkabout that all night. So what
are some, what are some of thecommon stereotypes or tropes
that you see in the LGBTQportrayals, and how can people
(14:34):
move beyond them being, youknow, writers, producers and,
you know, human beings? What Imean? It seems like, like you
just said the if there's a transperson on the show, Dad, it's
going to turn into, oh, you'rehiding something. But it does.
It seems like, you know, it kindof goes back to the 70s, when,
if you were a blonde, you were,you know, you were a dingbat.
Unknown (14:56):
Yeah. Everyone has these perceptions of what they
think and Like. Like, have youever, have you ever seen the
show, ugly Daddy? Yes, I
Kristen Daukas (15:03):
love it. So, you know, the whole
Unknown (15:05):
Alexis storyline, yes, that, I feel like, is a perfect
representation of that, likedeception trope, where it's
like, Alexis comes back and isthis beautiful blonde and, uh
oh, actually, this is the thedead brother that just like, you
(15:27):
know, like
Kristen Daukas (15:27):
it's like a bad soap opera,
Unknown (15:30):
but, but whenever Alexis was alive before she was
beloved by everyone, it's like,she's not changed. She may have
physically changed in like, howyou view her, but she's still
just as great of a of a businessowner and all that stuff as she
was before. I mean, obviouslyit's ugly, Betty, so there are
(15:52):
crazy stuff going on in there,but I think a good
representation would probably belike in euphoria with jolts.
Like, I think there's some,like, sketchy stuff, obviously,
that goes on in euphoria. But Ithink how Jules is just, like,
she just comes in and she'sbeautiful, and the main
(16:15):
character, like, falls in lovewith her. It's just it is what
it is. It's not like this hugedeal that she's trans, or that
Ruth's falling in love with atrans girl like just is what it
is. I think that's the way theygotta handle stuff like that.
Kristen Daukas (16:30):
I am a huge shits Creek fan, like my
Daydream is to have a shitsCreek life and have a rose
Mattel. And I felt that. Did youwatch it?
Unknown (16:42):
I've only seen bits and pieces, unfortunately. Okay,
this
Kristen Daukas (16:45):
is where I chastise you, but because it's
incredible, and you have to, didwe talk about this? The last
time I was there? I know Italked about it with Sid and
Janelle, but it the first fewepisodes you're kind of like but
you have to get through thefirst few episodes before it
really the character developmenthappens. And I feel the way they
(17:09):
handled David, who obviously isvery gay, how they handled that,
was beautiful. And I thinkthat's, I know that's one of the
reasons why the gay communityloves that show so much because
they handled it so well, and Ican't remember the exact quote
of it, but there's that scenewhere, I'm sure you've seen a
meme about it, where he'stalking about labels. Have you
(17:31):
seen that, where he's holding abottle of somebody's asking him
a question about his sexuality,and he's holding a bottle of
wine, and he goes, Well, youknow, let's take this bottle,
and I'm going to completelyannihilate this but he's like,
let's take this bottle. He goes,on the outside, it has a bottle,
it has a label that says thatI'm red wine. He's like, but on
(17:52):
the inside it might be whitewine, but on the outside, or
this bottle, it might be and sohow he describes, just like, you
can't just label somebody for,you know, and say what's on.
It's kind of like the you can'tjudge a book by its cover,
right? Yeah. But he was speakingon how he can be very fluid. And
he goes, you know, some days Imight be red, some days I might
be white, I just some days Imight be a rose. He goes, I just
(18:15):
don't know, it depends on thesituation that I'm in. Highly
recommend that you watch it,because just the way it is, I
keep saying I'm going to go backand re watch it. It's that
moving of a show. It's justincredible. I can't believe it's
been gone for five years, but Ithink they did an excellent job
with him and his and, you know,his relationship with, you know,
(18:36):
the man that he was seeing. Andit was just the way they wrote
it. It just, it was normal. Itwas normal, and it was so
beautiful to see like it wasn't,you know, they had their fights
they I mean, it just was so niceto see the producers and the
writers make it as normal as aheterosexual relationship,
(19:00):
right? Yeah, you know, look atNeil Patrick Harris. He's very
good at being able to do thingsof that nature. You know. He
does so much with his wholefamily, his husband and his
children. I think they, I thinkthey, he does a great job. What
are some of the other, you know,examples like that that you've
seen that strike you, that yougo, they really are doing a good
job.
Unknown (19:22):
That's a good I mean, so have you ever seen, have you
ever seen pose?
Kristen Daukas (19:30):
I haven't, so you can just ask
Unknown (19:32):
me if you want. Oh, no, that's okay. It's actually, it's
a pretty short series. I believeit was on FX. And pose is
basically about the ballroomscene, I believe in, like the
80s and 90s, during the AIDScrisis and stuff like that. Oh,
so it's a very heavy show, but Ithink it is just like such a
it's so so well done. Theyemployed trans actresses, they
(19:57):
just like, they threw out thatrepresentation. That I feel like
was just so it was like, primeexactly like, if I could stamp a
badge on it and be like, theydid a great job, I would,
because it's just been, I thinkthat is also one of those shows
where you watch and you're like,Wow, that is, I don't know, you
(20:20):
just never if you didn'texperience that lifestyle, if
you didn't experience that era,it just it educates you at the
same time. So I love that like
Kristen Daukas (20:30):
I lived through that time. So and I had a lot of
friends that you know, a lot ofmy gay you know, my guy, my guy
friends that went through that,you know, it was a horrible
time. It really was, and it washard, obviously challenging, for
them, to go through on that. Howdo you I was? I'm looking it up.
(20:50):
That's why I'm not looking atyou. Okay, the How did I used to
be an ambassador for Netflix,and when Orange is the New Black
came out in 2013 that was reallycutting edge. Have you watched
the whole series?
Unknown (21:08):
I didn't watch the last season. I didn't
Kristen Daukas (21:11):
watch the last half of the last season. So by
that point, it had kind ofjumped the shark. But I think
they did a really good job,especially almost 10 years ago.
Unknown (21:22):
Yeah, they did. And I think I will say that Orange is
the New Black. I definitely hadto, like, pace myself with that,
because there's so much tragedyin regard to everything. And
spoiler alert, when Poy died,that was like, it was
devastating.
Kristen Daukas (21:40):
It was awful. I was like my jaw was on the
ground. But, you know, LaverneCox was very much a trans woman,
and, you know, in real life, andI think it was, I'm so glad they
had her. First of all, she'sphenomenal. Sydney and I went to
go see her at Wake Forest whenshe came to speak. And some body
(22:00):
may or may not have been, like,lurking around trying to, like,
find her backstage. But I won't,I won't say anything. I think
you know, for them to use her asor cast her, I should say, use
her, cast her. And like, nineyears ago, I think was very
forward thinking, and I thinkmaybe they kind of set the stage
(22:22):
to be a little bit more cuttingedge, you know, allegedly, and
supposedly, all theConservatives are outraged that
Netflix donated money to Kamala.
And we're like, yeah, we'recanceling. We're like, ah,
Unknown (22:38):
yeah, exactly. And I it's like, how can, how can you
expect anything less? Like, haveyou ever seen sense eight? No,
so that's a shorter series too.
It's only two seasons, but it isvery much. It's very much
representation Central, which Ithink is, is phenomenal. There's
a lot. There's not only like,there's lesbians, there's trans
(22:59):
lesbians, there's bisexualthere's, like every, every
letter in the LGBTQIA pluscommunity, they represent that
show, which is great.
Kristen Daukas (23:15):
Maybe that's the reason they can't handle it is
because there's so many lettersthey can't remember. Yeah.
Unknown (23:23):
I feel like, yeah, they what do they say? The alphabet,
Mafia.
Kristen Daukas (23:28):
I love it. I've never heard that. That's
awesome. I
Unknown (23:31):
kind of love that.
Sometimes they'll coin termslike that. I'm like, I actually
they kind of ate with that.
Kristen Daukas (23:39):
It just, you know, and that we're kind of
getting away from the mediathing. But I just again, I'm
gonna go back to your generationand the fact that you guys are
so fluid. You know, love islove, man, like you guys are
more like the 70s and 60s and70s hippies than anything. It's
like, love is love. It's like,you know, why do I have to fit
(23:59):
into your mold if I want to lovethis woman or, you know, this
trans person, and it just forpeople filled with so much hate
to come at, people filled withso much love. It just boggles my
mind. I just can't wrap my headaround it. But
Unknown (24:19):
I would say the the Gen Z being open kind of factor, I
think it does tie, tie back intothe media aspect of things.
Because I remember being in highschool like a sophomore, and I,
I always say my, one of myawakenings was Fifth Harmony.
They were like this girl group
Kristen Daukas (24:37):
that I do know.
Yeah,
Unknown (24:40):
I read a lot of fan fiction about them. I was like,
wow, I don't know, just likesnowball affected, and there
weren't that many shows at thetime that had like, lesbian
representation. And when thereare so few shows that are out
that have that representation, Ithink that sometimes, some.
People do drop the ball, andthey like follow through with
(25:03):
tropes to kind of make it more,I guess, edible for for the
community that because they wantit to be generally accepted,
they want everybody to watchtheir show. But I think that
growing up and seeing some ofthese shows, like the 100 with
Lexa and Clark, which I have myissues with that, but at least
(25:25):
having it out there was nice.
Like there was Supergirl with,what's her name, Supergirl
Sister, what's
Kristen Daukas (25:35):
your name? The Little sisters always the Little
Sisters always get forgotten.
Unknown (25:40):
There was Grey's Anatomy with Cali in Arizona,
and being able to at least havethose shows to hold on to, I
think, allowed our generation tobe like, Oh, this is okay. Like
having some happy endings outthere for somebody that looks
(26:01):
like you or acts like you orlikes the same type of people as
you, I think really does impactsociety, and I think it does tie
into that with how ourgeneration views things, because
we've been able to see so much.
Kristen Daukas (26:13):
And it's not gay related, but just in general,
representation matters.
Everybody's not white,everybody's not straight. It's
like last year when Disney didthe little mermaid with Ariel
being black. And just what Imean, I just got chills thinking
(26:33):
about it, just watching allthese little African American
girls just be in awe becausethey were seeing somebody that
looked like them. Yeah? And thenhere come these people to shit
all over it. Yep, it's like,
Unknown (26:52):
she's a white mermaid.
Kristen Daukas (26:55):
First of all, mermaids don't exist, yeah?
That's like saying you can, youcan't have a black unicorn.
Yeah, you can have a blackunicorn if you want to have
black unicorn, because they'renot real Exactly. They can be
purple, they can be orbit,whatever. And it just, it's
like, really, do you have to gothere and then, like, the whole
thing too, with Kamala, we'll goback to Kamala, it's like, and
(27:18):
we'll even kick it further backto Taylor Swift, right? And
you'll understand why I'm goingwith this is all of these men
that just lost their minds overthe fact, you know, all the
attention Taylor Swift wasgetting at the football games.
Talk to the camera guy, dude,talk to the camera guy. Talk to
the NFL, because they are,they're counting their money
with her, right? But the memethat came out and the and the
(27:39):
point being made of these. Thesewomen are not hearing what
you're saying, but yourdaughters, your your
granddaughters, your nieces,your wife, your sisters, they're
hearing it and they're they'rehearing you say you don't matter
Unknown (27:55):
exactly, that's a great point. I totally agree. And it's
just like, those theparticularities of it all like,
it's just like, I don't know,and like you said earlier, just
turn it off if you if you don'tlike it, just don't watch
Kristen Daukas (28:10):
it exactly. I do not watch. We don't even have
cable. We don't have we stream100% in this household. So it is
very rare that we watchmainstream TV, and so I don't
know anything about the showsthat are on. I don't know. You
know, I nothing, absolutelynothing. We do watch our guilty
(28:31):
pleasure is Big Brother, notgonna lie. Every year we do it.
But we also have a a pool, so webet on it. Okay, if you want,
just let me know. So where I'mgoing with is, like, I don't
watch those shows, so I don'tknow if there's any
representation of our gaycommunity in any of the like,
(28:52):
you know, sitcoms and the showsof that. Do you I mean, I know
we're starting to see morecommercials and advertisements,
so I feel like maybe there's alittle bit of progress coming
that way. But I don't know ifthat's the case with any of the
like the regular, scheduledprogramming, or whatever you
want to call it
Unknown (29:13):
right now, the shows that I the first shows that I
think of are the shows that I'mwatching. House of the dragon.
There's,
Kristen Daukas (29:21):
but that's streaming, that's streaming,
Unknown (29:25):
oh, like in prime time.
Like, yeah,
Kristen Daukas (29:27):
like in prime time, I don't so I don't think
there is, I don't think thereis. And I think that's kind of
like, still the safe spacequote. And I don't mean safe
space, but I'm just kind of likethe generic, um, cracker, white,
pure kind of area. And I thinkit's these streamings, because
you're right. Well, my God, didyou ever watch Casanova? No, not
(29:49):
Casanova Buccaneers, not yet,like I told you, okay, there's a
there's a whole storyline inthere as well, of a lesbian
story. Storyline in there,
Unknown (30:01):
yeah, there's, I have to, is that on streaming, or is
that? Is that? Yeah,
Kristen Daukas (30:05):
it's on Netflix.
Okay, yeah, yeah, especially asa, you know, as a bridgerton
fan, I'm telling you, it's, Ialmost think it's, but I want
you to watch it. I want SID towatch it. I want all you guys to
watch and then I want to have aconversation about it. We can
have, because they for it to beand for those of you that may
not be familiar, it is along thelines of bridgerton, except it's
(30:26):
the the women are American, andtheir parents are like, there's
nobody good enough in Americafor our kids. So we're going to
ship our daughters over toLondon for the for the same type
of season, right? And, butthere's all of these amazing
kind of the same thing, verybridgertonish. You know, they've
(30:48):
got pop music in classicalformat, but they have so many
cool understories going on. Andone of them, it's not, but it's
the the attraction between twoof the girls is not an
understory. It's an actual storythroughout the whole thing. So,
but yeah, absolutely, on some ofthese private things, it's 100%
you're starting to see somegreat representation there. And
(31:11):
it's intense, it's hot, yeah?
Now I'm talking about ingeneral. You're like, Okay,
Unknown (31:19):
let's go, yeah. Like, I I just feel like they're just,
and what you said that it's amain story, not a side story.
Like, I feel like that wassomething that it was kind of
like a lot of media, or notmedia, I guess TV shows mostly
that was like something thatthey relied on. They were like,
Okay, here's your your posterchildren for heterosexuality,
(31:41):
and then a little bit
Kristen Daukas (31:42):
of gay, a little bit, like, it's an asterisk,
Unknown (31:46):
yeah. Like, with Buffy.
Like, have you ever watchedBuffy the Vampire Slayer?
Kristen Daukas (31:49):
I That actually was super popular when I was a
very young mother. I didn't havetime for Buffy.
Unknown (31:55):
That is fair. That is fair. And Buffy was one of, one
of my favorite. It's probablyone of my favorites of all time.
Kristen Daukas (32:01):
Everybody loved it. It's one of those I probably
should revisit now that I, youknow, have time. It's so
Unknown (32:06):
campy and corny and funny, like it's just so great.
But, I mean, it's kind of anexample of that, where
eventually, down the line, oneof the main characters starts
dating a girl. But it's like,it's like, Buffy and Angel and
then Willow and Tara, Buffy andAngel, that little bit of Willow
and Sarah and that story, kindof, I don't know if I would
classify it as goodrepresentation or bad
(32:27):
representation, because it kindof, it comes into this rope.
It's called the barrier gazetrope, where, basically the
writer will write this big,beautiful, like we've been
waiting for this moment with acouple that's gay and then kill
one of them off, of
Kristen Daukas (32:46):
course, because somebody's gonna die Exactly.
Unknown (32:49):
And there's like the same thing happens in the 100
the same thing happens in a lotof stuff, like skins, uh,
Vampire Diaries, the lesbiansdie. It's like, you can't be a
lesbian and a TV show and stayalive for more than a season.
It's just not possible. Youknow, your
Kristen Daukas (33:06):
time is coming to an end.
Unknown (33:09):
Yeah, it's so bad. And I think I don't know. I think
that they a lot of people. Sofor example, with the 100, I
forget who the writer, what thewriter's name was, but it was so
it was so poorly written, it wasso stupid, and there was so much
backlash. Everyone stoppedwatching the show because
they're like, it was 2015 orsomething, and everyone's like,
(33:32):
all right, what is enough? We'veseen this so many times. Why
can't we just have a happyending for for the couple that
were shipping.
Kristen Daukas (33:42):
I was just trying to Speaking of
bridgerton, did you finish thelast season? I did. So they kind
of had a little bit of ainteresting little bit going on
in there as well, with the withwhat's his name? Oh crap. Oh
Benedict, yes, yes,
Unknown (34:03):
oh yeah, yeah. I forgot about that. Yeah. So
Kristen Daukas (34:07):
it's so it's interesting. It's, it's a, I
think maybe some of theseproduction companies are afraid
that I think they need to get alittle bit more courageous the
people that are going to beoffended by it most likely over
here watching ABC, yeah, and Ithink there's a fine line
(34:29):
between putting everything inyour face and being gross about
it, which, how is that love? Islove, right? But it just, it
needs to be more just an anatural, like, okay, so it's two
guys, it's two girls, whatever.
Unknown (34:44):
Yeah, I did feel like with the bridgerton storyline. I
was like, because you know howbridgerton is, so it's like,
soft core at some point,absolutely, and Anna and I were
watching it, and I was like, whydo they keep cutting away? They
don't do this with every othercouple on Bridgeton. Usually
it's like a 10 minute, like fulltheme, but with Benedict, and I
(35:09):
was like, What the heck they'reon there? But I think that they
were sprinkling in it, andthey're testing the waters,
agree?
Kristen Daukas (35:15):
And, you know, smart on them, right? Smart on
them. Did you see that he is thehe is the fourth season's love
story. Okay,
Unknown (35:24):
we just announced that last week. I didn't see that,
yeah, that. I guess that makessense there. They were
definitely setting them up forthat. I mean, come on,
Kristen Daukas (35:33):
those people are crazy. They had nothing else to
do. Barely had electricity,yeah? All right, any kind of
closing thoughts? What else?
What have we not talked aboutthat you want to talk
Unknown (35:46):
about make sure we hit.
I don't know. I feel very wellprepared, and you
Kristen Daukas (35:50):
wrote your notes down. So look at your notes and
say, What have I not said? Whatdo I really want to get out
there to Kristen's fivelisteners, which is funny,
because I actually have morelisteners on YouTube than I do.
I have a lot of people onYouTube. I don't know why. Kind
of odd.
Unknown (36:08):
I think YouTube. I mean, YouTube's the number two
search engine in the world,isn't it? Yep, right behind most
YouTube, right behind Google. Imean, I think, I guess my
closing statement would mostlybe something along the lines of,
I feel that, obviously it'sreally important to have
representation in media, but Ithink it's even more important
(36:31):
for it to be goodrepresentation. I think, you
know, having the sassy gay manbeing the butt of the joke only,
you can only do that so manytimes, having the predatory
lesbian, like, in Pitch Perfect,being, like, super creepy, and,
you know, like they're driving aU haul, yeah, like there's
(36:54):
representation, which is, is onefoot in the door, in a way,
maybe a pinky toe in the door,but there's like good
representation, which I think isreally important. It's not only
important for just society as awhole, but I think it's
important for the individual,whether that be somebody in the
community, to be able to seesomebody that reflects their own
(37:15):
life and their own wants andneeds, or somebody who is so far
removed from the community tosee somebody that they may, may
never meet in person, to givethem the opportunity to love
somebody that maybe one daythey're in a small town and a
gay person or a trans personwalks into a bar because they
(37:37):
saw that one show where theylove that one character, They'll
treat them with kindness insteadof reject them. So I think just
gotta do a little bit more tomake a little bit more good
representation on on TV and inmovies and even on YouTube.
Right
Kristen Daukas (37:57):
I want to see a Hallmark Christmas movie that
has a gay couple.
Unknown (38:04):
There is a reminiscent there. It's called the happiest
season, and it is interesting,really, yeah, Kristen Stewart
and Aubrey Plaza are in it.
Kristen Daukas (38:18):
I have to check that out.
Unknown (38:20):
Yeah, check it out. I
Kristen Daukas (38:22):
am when I finally last year, I was always
the NO NO NO with the HallmarkChristmas movies. And I went,
you know what? This is theperfect thing to put on while
I'm working other, like, doingother things, because it's so
cheesy. And I think that's why Ilike started like, this is, this
is like a Harlequin romance onTV that unfolds in an hour and
(38:43):
52 minutes. And it's
Unknown (38:45):
so simple. They're all so simple.
Kristen Daukas (38:48):
And you know what I think, what I discovered
last year is that in the art theworld that we're living in right
now, as stupid and cheesy asthey are, it was like a nice
escape to go, oh, there is aplace somewhere, even if it's in
my head, that's happy andpleasant and everything, you
(39:10):
know, there's always a happy,happily ever after. Yeah,
Unknown (39:16):
those, those are great.
Honestly, it's a little escape.
I totally agree,
Kristen Daukas (39:21):
total escape.
Ari, thank you so much for doingthis, and I want you to hang on
after we stop recording so thatwe can say a formal goodbye. But
in the meantime, everybody,thank you so much for tuning in.
I hope you learned something,and just remember at the end of
the day, representation doesmatter. And Ari and all of our
friends and the Gen Z generationhave things to say that are
(39:45):
super, super important to hear,if you just stop and take the
time to listen until next time,I hope your drinks or coffee are
as strong as your will to finishwatching the 11. Six, and let's
go Team America,
Unknown (40:04):
USA, USA,
Kristen Daukas (40:08):
as the saying goes, you don't have to go home,
but you can stay here. Andthat's a wrap for this week's
episode. A big thanks to myguests for sharing their story
and to you for listening. Don'tforget to share the show with
your friends and spread thewords and if you'd like to be a
guest on the show, the link isin the show notes till next time
cheers you.
Kristen, welcome to Conversations on the rocks,
(00:06):
the podcast where the drink isstrong and the stories are
stronger. I'm your host, Kristendaukas, and this isn't your
average chat fest. Here, realpeople spill the tea alongside
their favorite drinks, from thehilarious to the heart
wrenching, each episode a wildcard. You'll laugh, you may cry,
but you'll definitely learnsomething new. So grab whatever,
(00:26):
what's your whistle and buckleup. It's time to dive into the
raw, the real and theridiculously human. Let's get
this chat party started. Heyeverybody, it's Kristen, and you
are listening to the latestepisode of conversations on the
rocks, the show that is asrandom as the Tumbleweed that
(00:47):
rolls through my head. And weare doing our second episode of
my very special Gen Z focus. Andwith me today, I have Ariana
mergenievich. We know her isAri, and I just want y'all to
know that's only the second timeI've ever said her last name,
(01:09):
and I got it right. And becausemy last name is Doukas, I'm very
particular about that, becauseit's like, I taught the girls at
a really young age. And I don't,I want to hear how you would do
this to correct people. They'relike, I don't, you know,
because, of course, it's daukas,and you know what, Dukakis, I
mean, like, we're not greatpeople. We're Lithuanian, yeah.
(01:30):
And so I finally taught that,and this is when I met their
dad. I had to do this, which wasHocus Pocus daukas, right? And
so, and so, and they were like,I don't want to correct
somebody. I'm like, No, you needto, it's your name, otherwise
you're going to be doing thisyour entire life. So did you
have a little, like, rhymeything or something to help
people with your last name? Anddid I get it right the second
(01:52):
time? Yeah, you did
Unknown (01:55):
with the last name.
Honestly, I viewed that as alost cause. I was like, people.
It was like, I also playedbaseball so and people got my
first and last name wrong. So itwas like, every time I was up to
bat, it was like, uh, Brianna,more something like, they just
couldn't say it. So the onething I do correct people on is
(02:16):
my first name. And I always justsay, like, are Yana, like a
pirate. And that usually sticks.
That's usually my my ringer,Ariana and Ariel and Adriana,
all that stuff. Ariana.
Kristen Daukas (02:31):
So like, if you're like me, like when you
make a reservation and they go,how do you spell that? I always
like, spell it however you wantto. Yeah.
Unknown (02:39):
Well actually, I have 11 letters my last name, so it
goes perfectly with the MickeyMouse theme song. So you can do
M, Marty, J, E, N, O, V, I, C,H,
Kristen Daukas (02:49):
oh my god. I love it. I think Sydney tried to
tell me something like that andbut she she even messed that up.
So you guys, Ari, who is we'rehow we I know her as, and that's
how we're going to refer to asthroughout this is a very close
friend of my middle Sydney, andshe lives in the lovely area of
Pittsburgh, Pennsylvania, homeof the black and gold
(03:12):
everything.
Unknown (03:13):
Oh yeah, Steel City.
Kristen Daukas (03:16):
So I've known you now for like, a couple of
years. Has it been a couple ofyears?
Unknown (03:20):
I think it's been a little over one
Kristen Daukas (03:22):
I think How long have you been at the same job
with Sid and I started working
Unknown (03:28):
together, like two and a half years ago, but we didn't
really fully come together asfriends for a while, which I
don't I don't even know how thathappened, but
Kristen Daukas (03:37):
Yeah, same considering how good friends you
are now, tell us a little bitabout yourself. Well, I'm
Unknown (03:42):
25 years old. I'm going to be turning 26 and that's
coming up soon, in August. My 26is a very daunting age. It's the
insurance list year of life. SoI work at the melting pot,
singing fondue,
Kristen Daukas (03:57):
hopefully not literally, because that would be
really messy.
Unknown (04:00):
I'm lucky to be one of the servers that have not
spilled anything on on anyguests. There's some horror
stories out there, for sure, hotpots plus guests is not it's not
a good combo,
Kristen Daukas (04:12):
for sure. Not at all. But
Unknown (04:14):
yeah, I'm working at the melting pot. I'm going back
to school in the fall, going tobe taking ASL classes to
eventually be an ASLinterpreter. So I love it.
Kristen Daukas (04:26):
I love it. So last week, I had my eldest child
who is the exact same age asyou. I didn't realize that
you're a month older thanMackenzie, because her birthday
is in September. She'll be 26and everyone who knows me and
wants to start getting intoanything or any conversation.
Knows how much I love yourgeneration. I think your
(04:47):
generation is definitely goingto save, if anything can save
our world right now, it's yourgeneration, Gen X. We don't
care. We don't you know, nobodypaying attention. Us our entire
life. So why should we care?
Now? I love the meme. It saysthat we're the generation
between, you know, Millennialsand Boomers, and just watching
them, you know, go at it. We'relike, peace out. But I love your
(05:09):
generation. I have always gottenso much energy out of you guys,
and I really do you're you'regoing to do remarkable things.
You guys are. You're not afraidto push back. You know you you
recognize what the quality oflife is that you want. There's
just so much good about you.
(05:31):
You're very fluid. You're notafraid to be who you are. And I
think a lot of that. And youknow, well, I know in SIDS and
her sisters. It's a lot. It'sbecause of my generation, right?
Because, you know, we were kindof that first gen. Well, again,
we were the Forgottengeneration. So we were just
like, we're going to do thingsour way, right? And so we kind
(05:53):
of set the set the table foryou, if you will. But when you
and I first started talking, Iwas very intrigued by your
topic, and it's one that I thinkis so interesting because it's
not one that we really thinkabout too much, and we really
need to a little bit more, andthat is the LGBTQ representation
(06:18):
in media. Talk to me a littlebit about that. I
Unknown (06:21):
mean, this is something that I've always been kind of
passionate about, because I'mgay, so like growing up in that
kind of, I don't know, growingup as gay, you look for yourself
as just like a person. You lookfor yourself in media. You want
to see reflection so you canrelate. Because I feel like
(06:42):
that's what media is all about.
Like TV shows, if you want towatch love stories that give you
hope for the love that you'llone day have. And like, I don't
know. I just feel like that'slike the beauty of television.
And so I don't know it's justsomething I've been passionate
about. I feel like wheneveryou're able, and also, honestly,
I think it impacts society, likewhenever close minded, you could
(07:05):
say closed minded people, seesomebody in maybe a minority
group that they maybe in reallife, don't agree with that
lifestyle or whatever, and thenthey fall in love with a
character. I think that impactsthem. And I think that it like
turns tides in society, whetherit be something just as small as
somebody like that, you know,that kind of situation, I just
(07:29):
think it's important.
Kristen Daukas (07:33):
And you're right, it is very important. And
you know, I've thinking back asyou were saying that over the
past several years, and it'snice that over the past several
years, I can't even say adecade, it hasn't been a decade.
It's only been in the pastseveral years, you're starting
to see your mainstreamcompanies, your big
corporations, are starting to dothis. And you know, you'll get
(07:53):
that. I'm trying to remember,we're just going to say it was
Kellogg, I don't know if it was,Don't come at me if it wasn't,
where they had, you know, twodads making waffles for their
kid, right? And then you alwayshave the backlash of people
going, oh my god, I'm nevergonna buy your waffles again.
And they're like, our waffles,yeah? But there's still not
(08:16):
enough of that, yeah? And is itever any more evident than it is
right now, where we stand as asociety and the political nature
of everything that's going on.
Do you think we'll ever win? Dowe have to wait for all of these
people to die before we startseeing some equality? Because
(08:36):
you know me, I'm a big I love mygays. I love them. I will, mama
bear the shit out of them,anytime, anywhere. And it
really, it ticks me off. Itreally does. And I sorry. I
could go on and on and on aboutit. No,
Unknown (08:54):
the passion is real.
Like, I think it's, I feel likethere is so much backlash and
like, in regards to, like, justwaiting for people to die off.
Unfortunately, that kind ofmindset is just, it's always
gonna exist. And honestly, no,you're right. It's like, because
these people are, like,conservative people that don't
like those types of people arehaving the most kids. They're
(09:17):
having families of 18, you know,right? No,
Kristen Daukas (09:22):
you're right about that. And you learn what
you live, which is exactly thatis never going to change. You
learn what you live, and ifyou're if your parents hate,
you're going to hate Yeah. Whatare some of the more significant
milestones or turning pointsthat you've seen in the
representation for our gaycommunity over the years,
(09:44):
honestly.
Unknown (09:45):
So I mean, there's the L word, The L Word has a lot of,
I would say a lot of pros andcons. There's a lot of really
terrible representation in LWord. But I think the beautiful
thing about that TV show is thati. It's just normal. That's just
like, it's just the show. Andit's like there is a heavy focus
(10:06):
on everyone being lesbians, butit's like, this is just a show
about lesbians, for lesbiansliving in LA, just like living
their little lesbian lives. Andthat's just, it's just normal.
Kristen Daukas (10:16):
And if you and here's my thing on that too,
where it goes back to Anita,it's like, I'm sorry if you
don't like it, turn it the Foff. Yeah, go find all in the
family, because that probablysuits some of these people a
little bit.
Unknown (10:28):
Yeah, and that's the thing. It's like, for every you
look at 10 shows, for every ninethat there are straight, there
might be one that has, like, onesmall queer storyline, and I
don't know, I just thinkincorporating those little roles
creating some sense of normalcy,like they're out there, gay
people are out there, transpeople are out there. It's just
(10:52):
like it should be reflected,because media is a reflection of
reality.
Kristen Daukas (10:58):
I think we have come a long way with being a lot
of people have become moreaccepting of our gay friends.
What I am seeing a really,really tough time with these
people trying to deal with nowis our trans and it's almost
(11:20):
like, okay, it's like one stepforward, two steps back. We get
one step forward with our, youknow, our gays and our lesbians,
right? Our gays, and then thenfrom along the trans, quote,
unquote, right? I'm saying thatin a horrible way. But then it's
like two steps back. Do you findyourself getting kind of
everybody getting lumped intoone bowl altogether. Does that
(11:45):
make sense? Because it just,it's like you don't hear as
much, or let me rephrase that,I'm not hearing as much roaring
over the gay community now,everything's about the trans
community, and a lot
Unknown (12:01):
it's like, it's shifted. They just took, I
think, the same rhetoric, andthen just like, shifted it
toward this other group. And Ithink you're right. It's like,
oh, I'm cool. You want to lovewho you want to love, whatever,
but I can't with, like, thesepronouns and all this stuff.
It's, it's like, that's too far.
Yeah, it and I just think it's alack of understanding. We go
(12:22):
back, back in the day it gave agay bar. They were getting
stormed by the police because itwas just like it was indecent.
And I think a lot of the stuffgoing on out there is, is, it's
just transferring to a differentenemy. It's, it's unfortunate,
and I think that it's like, andgoing back to like, the
(12:45):
representation in media, like inin a lot of these shows, when
there is a trans character, it'slike they were deceiving
everybody the whole time. And Ithink that representation bleeds
into the reality and how peopleview trans people like, Oh,
you're you were concealing this,like, deep, dark secret this
whole time. You know what Imean? Like, I don't know. I
(13:07):
definitely think trans issuesare like, way less accepted and
way less like, the common personisn't going to be as for it, or
as accepting. You know what Imean?
Kristen Daukas (13:25):
In the beautiful thing about the human race, I
guess, is that we're alldifferent. We're all unique. And
I know it seems so simplistic,but sometimes I am a very
simplistic person, and it makessense to me in the whole Why
can't like I don't care. I don'tcare what somebody else does. If
(13:47):
it's not harming someone else,if you're harming someone or
something, then yes, I have anissue with it. I may. You know,
I'm not a church going person,does that make me not a
Christian? No, it doesn't makeme not a Christian, but I'm just
not a church going person. Youwant to go to church, go to
church. I'm not going to thinkless of you or more of you. You
shouldn't think less or more ofme. So I just it, just I'm so I
(14:11):
have, even though I do socialmedia for a living, I have to
stay off of it unless I'mworking, because it is just a
dumpster fire. Our world and ourhumanity is just a dumpster
fire. But anyways, we could talkabout that all night. So what
are some, what are some of thecommon stereotypes or tropes
that you see in the LGBTQportrayals, and how can people
(14:34):
move beyond them being, youknow, writers, producers and,
you know, human beings? What Imean? It seems like, like you
just said the if there's a transperson on the show, Dad, it's
going to turn into, oh, you'rehiding something. But it does.
It seems like, you know, it kindof goes back to the 70s, when,
if you were a blonde, you were,you know, you were a dingbat.
Unknown (14:56):
Yeah. Everyone has these perceptions of what they
think and Like. Like, have youever, have you ever seen the
show, ugly Daddy? Yes, I
Kristen Daukas (15:03):
love it. So, you know, the whole
Unknown (15:05):
Alexis storyline, yes, that, I feel like, is a perfect
representation of that, likedeception trope, where it's
like, Alexis comes back and isthis beautiful blonde and, uh
oh, actually, this is the thedead brother that just like, you
(15:27):
know, like
Kristen Daukas (15:27):
it's like a bad soap opera,
Unknown (15:30):
but, but whenever Alexis was alive before she was
beloved by everyone, it's like,she's not changed. She may have
physically changed in like, howyou view her, but she's still
just as great of a of a businessowner and all that stuff as she
was before. I mean, obviouslyit's ugly, Betty, so there are
(15:52):
crazy stuff going on in there,but I think a good
representation would probably belike in euphoria with jolts.
Like, I think there's some,like, sketchy stuff, obviously,
that goes on in euphoria. But Ithink how Jules is just, like,
she just comes in and she'sbeautiful, and the main
(16:15):
character, like, falls in lovewith her. It's just it is what
it is. It's not like this hugedeal that she's trans, or that
Ruth's falling in love with atrans girl like just is what it
is. I think that's the way theygotta handle stuff like that.
Kristen Daukas (16:30):
I am a huge shits Creek fan, like my
Daydream is to have a shitsCreek life and have a rose
Mattel. And I felt that. Did youwatch it?
Unknown (16:42):
I've only seen bits and pieces, unfortunately. Okay,
this
Kristen Daukas (16:45):
is where I chastise you, but because it's
incredible, and you have to, didwe talk about this? The last
time I was there? I know Italked about it with Sid and
Janelle, but it the first fewepisodes you're kind of like but
you have to get through thefirst few episodes before it
really the character developmenthappens. And I feel the way they
(17:09):
handled David, who obviously isvery gay, how they handled that,
was beautiful. And I thinkthat's, I know that's one of the
reasons why the gay communityloves that show so much because
they handled it so well, and Ican't remember the exact quote
of it, but there's that scenewhere, I'm sure you've seen a
meme about it, where he'stalking about labels. Have you
(17:31):
seen that, where he's holding abottle of somebody's asking him
a question about his sexuality,and he's holding a bottle of
wine, and he goes, Well, youknow, let's take this bottle,
and I'm going to completelyannihilate this but he's like,
let's take this bottle. He goes,on the outside, it has a bottle,
it has a label that says thatI'm red wine. He's like, but on
(17:52):
the inside it might be whitewine, but on the outside, or
this bottle, it might be and sohow he describes, just like, you
can't just label somebody for,you know, and say what's on.
It's kind of like the you can'tjudge a book by its cover,
right? Yeah. But he was speakingon how he can be very fluid. And
he goes, you know, some days Imight be red, some days I might
be white, I just some days Imight be a rose. He goes, I just
(18:15):
don't know, it depends on thesituation that I'm in. Highly
recommend that you watch it,because just the way it is, I
keep saying I'm going to go backand re watch it. It's that
moving of a show. It's justincredible. I can't believe it's
been gone for five years, but Ithink they did an excellent job
with him and his and, you know,his relationship with, you know,
(18:36):
the man that he was seeing. Andit was just the way they wrote
it. It just, it was normal. Itwas normal, and it was so
beautiful to see like it wasn't,you know, they had their fights
they I mean, it just was so niceto see the producers and the
writers make it as normal as aheterosexual relationship,
(19:00):
right? Yeah, you know, look atNeil Patrick Harris. He's very
good at being able to do thingsof that nature. You know. He
does so much with his wholefamily, his husband and his
children. I think they, I thinkthey, he does a great job. What
are some of the other, you know,examples like that that you've
seen that strike you, that yougo, they really are doing a good
job.
Unknown (19:22):
That's a good I mean, so have you ever seen, have you
ever seen pose?
Kristen Daukas (19:30):
I haven't, so you can just ask
Unknown (19:32):
me if you want. Oh, no, that's okay. It's actually, it's
a pretty short series. I believeit was on FX. And pose is
basically about the ballroomscene, I believe in, like the
80s and 90s, during the AIDScrisis and stuff like that. Oh,
so it's a very heavy show, but Ithink it is just like such a
it's so so well done. Theyemployed trans actresses, they
(19:57):
just like, they threw out thatrepresentation. That I feel like
was just so it was like, primeexactly like, if I could stamp a
badge on it and be like, theydid a great job, I would,
because it's just been, I thinkthat is also one of those shows
where you watch and you're like,Wow, that is, I don't know, you
(20:20):
just never if you didn'texperience that lifestyle, if
you didn't experience that era,it just it educates you at the
same time. So I love that like
Kristen Daukas (20:30):
I lived through that time. So and I had a lot of
friends that you know, a lot ofmy gay you know, my guy, my guy
friends that went through that,you know, it was a horrible
time. It really was, and it washard, obviously challenging, for
them, to go through on that. Howdo you I was? I'm looking it up.
(20:50):
That's why I'm not looking atyou. Okay, the How did I used to
be an ambassador for Netflix,and when Orange is the New Black
came out in 2013 that was reallycutting edge. Have you watched
the whole series?
Unknown (21:08):
I didn't watch the last season. I didn't
Kristen Daukas (21:11):
watch the last half of the last season. So by
that point, it had kind ofjumped the shark. But I think
they did a really good job,especially almost 10 years ago.
Unknown (21:22):
Yeah, they did. And I think I will say that Orange is
the New Black. I definitely hadto, like, pace myself with that,
because there's so much tragedyin regard to everything. And
spoiler alert, when Poy died,that was like, it was
devastating.
Kristen Daukas (21:40):
It was awful. I was like my jaw was on the
ground. But, you know, LaverneCox was very much a trans woman,
and, you know, in real life, andI think it was, I'm so glad they
had her. First of all, she'sphenomenal. Sydney and I went to
go see her at Wake Forest whenshe came to speak. And some body
(22:00):
may or may not have been, like,lurking around trying to, like,
find her backstage. But I won't,I won't say anything. I think
you know, for them to use her asor cast her, I should say, use
her, cast her. And like, nineyears ago, I think was very
forward thinking, and I thinkmaybe they kind of set the stage
(22:22):
to be a little bit more cuttingedge, you know, allegedly, and
supposedly, all theConservatives are outraged that
Netflix donated money to Kamala.
And we're like, yeah, we'recanceling. We're like, ah,
Unknown (22:38):
yeah, exactly. And I it's like, how can, how can you
expect anything less? Like, haveyou ever seen sense eight? No,
so that's a shorter series too.
It's only two seasons, but it isvery much. It's very much
representation Central, which Ithink is, is phenomenal. There's
a lot. There's not only like,there's lesbians, there's trans
(22:59):
lesbians, there's bisexualthere's, like every, every
letter in the LGBTQIA pluscommunity, they represent that
show, which is great.
Kristen Daukas (23:15):
Maybe that's the reason they can't handle it is
because there's so many lettersthey can't remember. Yeah.
Unknown (23:23):
I feel like, yeah, they what do they say? The alphabet,
Mafia.
Kristen Daukas (23:28):
I love it. I've never heard that. That's
awesome. I
Unknown (23:31):
kind of love that.
Sometimes they'll coin termslike that. I'm like, I actually
they kind of ate with that.
Kristen Daukas (23:39):
It just, you know, and that we're kind of
getting away from the mediathing. But I just again, I'm
gonna go back to your generationand the fact that you guys are
so fluid. You know, love islove, man, like you guys are
more like the 70s and 60s and70s hippies than anything. It's
like, love is love. It's like,you know, why do I have to fit
(23:59):
into your mold if I want to lovethis woman or, you know, this
trans person, and it just forpeople filled with so much hate
to come at, people filled withso much love. It just boggles my
mind. I just can't wrap my headaround it. But
Unknown (24:19):
I would say the the Gen Z being open kind of factor, I
think it does tie, tie back intothe media aspect of things.
Because I remember being in highschool like a sophomore, and I,
I always say my, one of myawakenings was Fifth Harmony.
They were like this girl group
Kristen Daukas (24:37):
that I do know.
Yeah,
Unknown (24:40):
I read a lot of fan fiction about them. I was like,
wow, I don't know, just likesnowball affected, and there
weren't that many shows at thetime that had like, lesbian
representation. And when thereare so few shows that are out
that have that representation, Ithink that sometimes, some.
People do drop the ball, andthey like follow through with
(25:03):
tropes to kind of make it more,I guess, edible for for the
community that because they wantit to be generally accepted,
they want everybody to watchtheir show. But I think that
growing up and seeing some ofthese shows, like the 100 with
Lexa and Clark, which I have myissues with that, but at least
(25:25):
having it out there was nice.
Like there was Supergirl with,what's her name, Supergirl
Sister, what's
Kristen Daukas (25:35):
your name? The Little sisters always the Little
Sisters always get forgotten.
Unknown (25:40):
There was Grey's Anatomy with Cali in Arizona,
and being able to at least havethose shows to hold on to, I
think, allowed our generation tobe like, Oh, this is okay. Like
having some happy endings outthere for somebody that looks
(26:01):
like you or acts like you orlikes the same type of people as
you, I think really does impactsociety, and I think it does tie
into that with how ourgeneration views things, because
we've been able to see so much.
Kristen Daukas (26:13):
And it's not gay related, but just in general,
representation matters.
Everybody's not white,everybody's not straight. It's
like last year when Disney didthe little mermaid with Ariel
being black. And just what Imean, I just got chills thinking
(26:33):
about it, just watching allthese little African American
girls just be in awe becausethey were seeing somebody that
looked like them. Yeah? And thenhere come these people to shit
all over it. Yep, it's like,
Unknown (26:52):
she's a white mermaid.
Kristen Daukas (26:55):
First of all, mermaids don't exist, yeah?
That's like saying you can, youcan't have a black unicorn.
Yeah, you can have a blackunicorn if you want to have
black unicorn, because they'renot real Exactly. They can be
purple, they can be orbit,whatever. And it just, it's
like, really, do you have to gothere and then, like, the whole
thing too, with Kamala, we'll goback to Kamala, it's like, and
(27:18):
we'll even kick it further backto Taylor Swift, right? And
you'll understand why I'm goingwith this is all of these men
that just lost their minds overthe fact, you know, all the
attention Taylor Swift wasgetting at the football games.
Talk to the camera guy, dude,talk to the camera guy. Talk to
the NFL, because they are,they're counting their money
with her, right? But the memethat came out and the and the
(27:39):
point being made of these. Thesewomen are not hearing what
you're saying, but yourdaughters, your your
granddaughters, your nieces,your wife, your sisters, they're
hearing it and they're they'rehearing you say you don't matter
Unknown (27:55):
exactly, that's a great point. I totally agree. And it's
just like, those theparticularities of it all like,
it's just like, I don't know,and like you said earlier, just
turn it off if you if you don'tlike it, just don't watch
Kristen Daukas (28:10):
it exactly. I do not watch. We don't even have
cable. We don't have we stream100% in this household. So it is
very rare that we watchmainstream TV, and so I don't
know anything about the showsthat are on. I don't know. You
know, I nothing, absolutelynothing. We do watch our guilty
(28:31):
pleasure is Big Brother, notgonna lie. Every year we do it.
But we also have a a pool, so webet on it. Okay, if you want,
just let me know. So where I'mgoing with is, like, I don't
watch those shows, so I don'tknow if there's any
representation of our gaycommunity in any of the like,
(28:52):
you know, sitcoms and the showsof that. Do you I mean, I know
we're starting to see morecommercials and advertisements,
so I feel like maybe there's alittle bit of progress coming
that way. But I don't know ifthat's the case with any of the
like the regular, scheduledprogramming, or whatever you
want to call it
Unknown (29:13):
right now, the shows that I the first shows that I
think of are the shows that I'mwatching. House of the dragon.
There's,
Kristen Daukas (29:21):
but that's streaming, that's streaming,
Unknown (29:25):
oh, like in prime time.
Like, yeah,
Kristen Daukas (29:27):
like in prime time, I don't so I don't think
there is, I don't think thereis. And I think that's kind of
like, still the safe spacequote. And I don't mean safe
space, but I'm just kind of likethe generic, um, cracker, white,
pure kind of area. And I thinkit's these streamings, because
you're right. Well, my God, didyou ever watch Casanova? No, not
(29:49):
Casanova Buccaneers, not yet,like I told you, okay, there's a
there's a whole storyline inthere as well, of a lesbian
story. Storyline in there,
Unknown (30:01):
yeah, there's, I have to, is that on streaming, or is
that? Is that? Yeah,
Kristen Daukas (30:05):
it's on Netflix.
Okay, yeah, yeah, especially asa, you know, as a bridgerton
fan, I'm telling you, it's, Ialmost think it's, but I want
you to watch it. I want SID towatch it. I want all you guys to
watch and then I want to have aconversation about it. We can
have, because they for it to beand for those of you that may
not be familiar, it is along thelines of bridgerton, except it's
(30:26):
the the women are American, andtheir parents are like, there's
nobody good enough in Americafor our kids. So we're going to
ship our daughters over toLondon for the for the same type
of season, right? And, butthere's all of these amazing
kind of the same thing, verybridgertonish. You know, they've
(30:48):
got pop music in classicalformat, but they have so many
cool understories going on. Andone of them, it's not, but it's
the the attraction between twoof the girls is not an
understory. It's an actual storythroughout the whole thing. So,
but yeah, absolutely, on some ofthese private things, it's 100%
you're starting to see somegreat representation there. And
(31:11):
it's intense, it's hot, yeah?
Now I'm talking about ingeneral. You're like, Okay,
Unknown (31:19):
let's go, yeah. Like, I I just feel like they're just,
and what you said that it's amain story, not a side story.
Like, I feel like that wassomething that it was kind of
like a lot of media, or notmedia, I guess TV shows mostly
that was like something thatthey relied on. They were like,
Okay, here's your your posterchildren for heterosexuality,
(31:41):
and then a little bit
Kristen Daukas (31:42):
of gay, a little bit, like, it's an asterisk,
Unknown (31:46):
yeah. Like, with Buffy.
Like, have you ever watchedBuffy the Vampire Slayer?
Kristen Daukas (31:49):
I That actually was super popular when I was a
very young mother. I didn't havetime for Buffy.
Unknown (31:55):
That is fair. That is fair. And Buffy was one of, one
of my favorite. It's probablyone of my favorites of all time.
Kristen Daukas (32:01):
Everybody loved it. It's one of those I probably
should revisit now that I, youknow, have time. It's so
Unknown (32:06):
campy and corny and funny, like it's just so great.
But, I mean, it's kind of anexample of that, where
eventually, down the line, oneof the main characters starts
dating a girl. But it's like,it's like, Buffy and Angel and
then Willow and Tara, Buffy andAngel, that little bit of Willow
and Sarah and that story, kindof, I don't know if I would
classify it as goodrepresentation or bad
(32:27):
representation, because it kindof, it comes into this rope.
It's called the barrier gazetrope, where, basically the
writer will write this big,beautiful, like we've been
waiting for this moment with acouple that's gay and then kill
one of them off, of
Kristen Daukas (32:46):
course, because somebody's gonna die Exactly.
Unknown (32:49):
And there's like the same thing happens in the 100
the same thing happens in a lotof stuff, like skins, uh,
Vampire Diaries, the lesbiansdie. It's like, you can't be a
lesbian and a TV show and stayalive for more than a season.
It's just not possible. Youknow, your
Kristen Daukas (33:06):
time is coming to an end.
Unknown (33:09):
Yeah, it's so bad. And I think I don't know. I think
that they a lot of people. Sofor example, with the 100, I
forget who the writer, what thewriter's name was, but it was so
it was so poorly written, it wasso stupid, and there was so much
backlash. Everyone stoppedwatching the show because
they're like, it was 2015 orsomething, and everyone's like,
(33:32):
all right, what is enough? We'veseen this so many times. Why
can't we just have a happyending for for the couple that
were shipping.
Kristen Daukas (33:42):
I was just trying to Speaking of
bridgerton, did you finish thelast season? I did. So they kind
of had a little bit of ainteresting little bit going on
in there as well, with the withwhat's his name? Oh crap. Oh
Benedict, yes, yes,
Unknown (34:03):
oh yeah, yeah. I forgot about that. Yeah. So
Kristen Daukas (34:07):
it's so it's interesting. It's, it's a, I
think maybe some of theseproduction companies are afraid
that I think they need to get alittle bit more courageous the
people that are going to beoffended by it most likely over
here watching ABC, yeah, and Ithink there's a fine line
(34:29):
between putting everything inyour face and being gross about
it, which, how is that love? Islove, right? But it just, it
needs to be more just an anatural, like, okay, so it's two
guys, it's two girls, whatever.
Unknown (34:44):
Yeah, I did feel like with the bridgerton storyline. I
was like, because you know howbridgerton is, so it's like,
soft core at some point,absolutely, and Anna and I were
watching it, and I was like, whydo they keep cutting away? They
don't do this with every othercouple on Bridgeton. Usually
it's like a 10 minute, like fulltheme, but with Benedict, and I
(35:09):
was like, What the heck they'reon there? But I think that they
were sprinkling in it, andthey're testing the waters,
agree?
Kristen Daukas (35:15):
And, you know, smart on them, right? Smart on
them. Did you see that he is thehe is the fourth season's love
story. Okay,
Unknown (35:24):
we just announced that last week. I didn't see that,
yeah, that. I guess that makessense there. They were
definitely setting them up forthat. I mean, come on,
Kristen Daukas (35:33):
those people are crazy. They had nothing else to
do. Barely had electricity,yeah? All right, any kind of
closing thoughts? What else?
What have we not talked aboutthat you want to talk
Unknown (35:46):
about make sure we hit.
I don't know. I feel very wellprepared, and you
Kristen Daukas (35:50):
wrote your notes down. So look at your notes and
say, What have I not said? Whatdo I really want to get out
there to Kristen's fivelisteners, which is funny,
because I actually have morelisteners on YouTube than I do.
I have a lot of people onYouTube. I don't know why. Kind
of odd.
Unknown (36:08):
I think YouTube. I mean, YouTube's the number two
search engine in the world,isn't it? Yep, right behind most
YouTube, right behind Google. Imean, I think, I guess my
closing statement would mostlybe something along the lines of,
I feel that, obviously it'sreally important to have
representation in media, but Ithink it's even more important
(36:31):
for it to be goodrepresentation. I think, you
know, having the sassy gay manbeing the butt of the joke only,
you can only do that so manytimes, having the predatory
lesbian, like, in Pitch Perfect,being, like, super creepy, and,
you know, like they're driving aU haul, yeah, like there's
(36:54):
representation, which is, is onefoot in the door, in a way,
maybe a pinky toe in the door,but there's like good
representation, which I think isreally important. It's not only
important for just society as awhole, but I think it's
important for the individual,whether that be somebody in the
community, to be able to seesomebody that reflects their own
(37:15):
life and their own wants andneeds, or somebody who is so far
removed from the community tosee somebody that they may, may
never meet in person, to givethem the opportunity to love
somebody that maybe one daythey're in a small town and a
gay person or a trans personwalks into a bar because they
(37:37):
saw that one show where theylove that one character, They'll
treat them with kindness insteadof reject them. So I think just
gotta do a little bit more tomake a little bit more good
representation on on TV and inmovies and even on YouTube.
Right
Kristen Daukas (37:57):
I want to see a Hallmark Christmas movie that
has a gay couple.
Unknown (38:04):
There is a reminiscent there. It's called the happiest
season, and it is interesting,really, yeah, Kristen Stewart
and Aubrey Plaza are in it.
Kristen Daukas (38:18):
I have to check that out.
Unknown (38:20):
Yeah, check it out. I
Kristen Daukas (38:22):
am when I finally last year, I was always
the NO NO NO with the HallmarkChristmas movies. And I went,
you know what? This is theperfect thing to put on while
I'm working other, like, doingother things, because it's so
cheesy. And I think that's why Ilike started like, this is, this
is like a Harlequin romance onTV that unfolds in an hour and
(38:43):
52 minutes. And it's
Unknown (38:45):
so simple. They're all so simple.
Kristen Daukas (38:48):
And you know what I think, what I discovered
last year is that in the art theworld that we're living in right
now, as stupid and cheesy asthey are, it was like a nice
escape to go, oh, there is aplace somewhere, even if it's in
my head, that's happy andpleasant and everything, you
(39:10):
know, there's always a happy,happily ever after. Yeah,
Unknown (39:16):
those, those are great.
Honestly, it's a little escape.
I totally agree,
Kristen Daukas (39:21):
total escape.
Ari, thank you so much for doingthis, and I want you to hang on
after we stop recording so thatwe can say a formal goodbye. But
in the meantime, everybody,thank you so much for tuning in.
I hope you learned something,and just remember at the end of
the day, representation doesmatter. And Ari and all of our
friends and the Gen Z generationhave things to say that are
(39:45):
super, super important to hear,if you just stop and take the
time to listen until next time,I hope your drinks or coffee are
as strong as your will to finishwatching the 11. Six, and let's
go Team America,
Unknown (40:04):
USA, USA,
Kristen Daukas (40:08):
as the saying goes, you don't have to go home,
but you can stay here. Andthat's a wrap for this week's
episode. A big thanks to myguests for sharing their story
and to you for listening. Don'tforget to share the show with
your friends and spread thewords and if you'd like to be a
guest on the show, the link isin the show notes till next time
cheers you.
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