May 7, 2024 • 38 mins
In this episode, Kristen sits down with Lisa Danforth, the forward-thinking founder of tonique, a company at the forefront of the alcohol-free cocktail movement. Lisa dives into her venture into mindful mixology, inspired by the noticeable increase in alcohol consumption during the COVID pandemic. She shares her passion for creating tonique, an alcohol-free bar service that caters to the growing acceptance of sober lifestyle choices. The conversation covers the landscape of the alcohol-free beverage industry, touching on the challenges, innovations, and the importance of community support and accessibility for those looking to reduce their alcohol intake.
Lisa is a vocal advocate for the destigmatization of sobriety and introduces listeners to her unique, flavorful creations. Using unconventional ingredients like coffee, peppers, and teas, she crafts complex mocktails that aim to stand out rather than mimic traditional spirits. Her efforts through tonique offer sophisticated alternatives and encourage a broader movement towards inclusive and wellness-oriented social drinking cultures.
The episode concludes with Lisa sharing her aspirations for tonique, including expanding the alcohol-free community and potentially opening a brick-and-mortar alcohol-free lounge. Through her story and tonique's mission, the episode highlights a shift towards more mindful, judgment-free beverage choices, underscoring a future where sobriety and choice are celebrated within the social drinking landscape.
About Lisa
tonique was founded by Lisa Danforth, an experienced caterer, and 30-year entrepreneur passionate about mindful mixology and creating fun, flavorful, and elegant alcohol-free cocktails. Lisa is also a leadership and work-life wellbeing coach and founder of Lisa Danforth Coaching.
We’re an alcohol-free bar service in beautiful Burlington, Vermont, offering a fun and robust menu of craft cocktails, beer & wine, along with shrubs, bitter and functional beverages for your events.
All of our house syrups and shrubs are crafted using fresh ingredients. Our citrus juices are always freshly squeezed for our craft cocktails.
tonique’s mission is to redefine social experiences by keeping the ritual and shifting our collective relationship with alcohol.
Whether sober, sober-curious, pregnant, an athlete, or looking for ways to improve your mental health and wellbeing, we provide an extensive selection of non-alcoholic options for your event.
Our love for community building, sustainability, delicious drinks, and creating beauty is at the heart of who we are and at the core of every decision we make.
Connect with Lisa:
Interested in possibly being a guest on the show? Click the link to get started!
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Kristen Daukas (00:04):
Welcome to Conversations on the rocks. The
podcast where the drink isstrong and the stories are
stronger. I'm your host, KristenDaukas. And this isn't your
average chat fest. Here realpeople spill the tea alongside
their favorite drinks from thehilarious to the heart wrenching
each episode a wildcard. You'lllaugh, you may cry, but you'll
definitely learn something new.
So grab whatever whet yourwhistle and buckle up it's time
(00:26):
to dive into the raw, the realand the ridiculously human.
Let's get this chat partystarted. Hey, everyone, it's
Kristen. And today I am excited.
I have with me my friend LisaDanforth and Lisa is an
experienced caterer third yearentrepreneur who's passionate
(00:49):
about mindful mixology andcreating fun, flavorful and
elegant, alcohol free cocktails.
Her company is called tonic.
Lisa is also a leadership andwork life wellbeing coach and
founder of Lisa Danforthcoaching and insider tip. Here's
here's a sneak peek. Herfavorite word is no. Hey, Lisa.
Lisa (01:14):
How are you? I do love that two little letter word.
It's so powerful. It's
Kristen Daukas (01:17):
a whole sentence.
Unknown (01:19):
It is. Absolutely.
Thanks for having me. I'm superexcited. Well nervous with all
the questions, but that's okay.
Well, we'll roll with it andhave some we
Kristen Daukas (01:26):
are going to have some fun. And I think
you've got so much to educatepeople on as far as the and it's
a big thing right now there's ahuge movement with this alcohol
free thing. And you know, aswe've talked about it, whether
you're sober, sober, curious,whether you're pregnant, whether
you're a recovering addict,whatever people first and
(01:48):
foremost ally, Ally and ally.
Exactly. First and foremost,just let's say this right here,
it is none of your business whysomebody doesn't drink.
Hallelujah. If you go in and youknow, my history, you know, with
my my ex husband, if somebodydoesn't want to order a drink,
you don't sit there and go. Oh,are you sure? Yes. I said no.
(02:08):
That's boring. Yeah. Right,exactly. It's like so those of
you out there listening, ifyou're with somebody that
chooses not to drink, it's noneof your business and shut your
piehole
Unknown (02:23):
it's really about not calling someone out. For some
reason, alcohol is the one drugin our community or us whatever,
that there's something wrongwith you if you're not drinking,
so there's this shame when wedon't drink and that just seems
strange alcoholic should say.
And we That's the beautifulthing about the alcohol free
movement. And this mindfuldrinking is sober, the word
(02:44):
sober is actually coming backinto vogue, there's not a
negative connotation, or as muchof a negative connotation.
Because a lot of people are I'msober. And that doesn't mean
that they had a drinkingproblem. It might just be I
mean, it could be religion,right? It could be whatever it
is, but that mindful drinking istruly coming back or truly
taking place, which is justlovely to see. Right?
Kristen Daukas (03:09):
It's not prohibition. It's not
prohibition people it's achoice. And you know, we just
came out of dry January. Well,just I mean, it is April seems
like it just feels like but youknow, I'm starting to see other
months. What's the Octoberthey've labeled October October
October October.
Unknown (03:28):
So there's February was try February, or dry February
dry January, try February. Julyis actually a really big month
for the alcohol free sales aswell because of Fourth of July
and summertime and all of that.
It's also really big time forfor the sales for non alcoholic.
So
Kristen Daukas (03:46):
what was your inspiration? I mean, I know your
story, but my friends out in thein podcast land do not so you
know you are you still are acoach, but you made the decision
with all of us supporting youand going go Lisa go to really
dive into this. So what was yourwhat inspired you to create an
alcohol free bar service, whichhopefully will also soon turn
(04:10):
into a brick and mortar? Yeah,
Unknown (04:12):
lounge? I'm really hoping for that. That's an
excellent question. And it'sexciting for me, but it's
doesn't seem really superexciting when I tell the story,
but it's really it began inCOVID when I was home alone, and
I was a caterer for 14 years. SoI was playing around with all
sorts of alcohol free spiritsand shrubs and simple syrups and
all of that. And then I startedto watch the alcohol rates, the
(04:34):
consumption rates just climbedjust going through the roof,
especially with women,especially with women. Women are
now on par with men for drinkingand that's because the alcohol
companies have really targetedwomen for drinking. But I was
watching all of that rise. I waswatching depression, anxiety,
domestic abuse, child abuse,neglect all of these different
(04:54):
stats just on the rise. And Ibelieve that there was a direct
tie to a lonely ans but alsothat alcohol consumption. So it
just kept piquing my interest.
And I kept playing around withall of these spirits and shrubs
and just having fun with it fora couple of years, then a friend
of mine was like, you know,effect pursuing this and having
fun with it. Why don't youactually just take it hold it
(05:15):
lightly and see about starting abusiness. And I was like, that's
a really good idea. And at thatpoint, it literally just
unfolded. I just, I whippedtogether a website. And in a
matter of weeks, it was amazing.
And it has been such a funjourney. I've been getting such
an amazing response from thecommunity. And it's really all
about building community. It'snot just, you know, just
(05:38):
plopping this business in there.
But it's about buildingcommunity. And the thing is, is
the largest barrier to growth inthe communities out there in the
US especially, is accessibility.
The UK has an ace like they'vegot it all over the place. But
in Vermont, there is no bottleshop and a lot of other places.
There are no bottle shops, or abar might have a couple of
alcohol free cocktails or, youknow, bottle of beer or
(06:02):
something. But it's it's notaccessible. So for me to be able
to bring it out to the communityand show it to people. I do
tastings so people can come inand taste the alcohol the
spirits before non alcohol, Ishould say before they buy
because it's not inexpensive.
It's actually a little moreexpensive than traditional
alcohol because it takes so muchmore to make something that
emulates the flavor and has asatiating essence to it.
Kristen Daukas (06:24):
So you have a mocktail, right now, let's tell
tell us about it. And then Iwant you to describe it. And how
how? How are you able to mimicthe complexity and enjoyment of
those traditional cocktails?
What is going to make me say Iwant a $15 alcohol free beverage
over I just ball just have nopassion. I mean, other than the
(06:50):
alcohol piece of it, right?
Unknown (06:53):
That's exactly the alcohol piece really, really
isn't. But the thing is, is wewant to have alternatives. And
that's one of the biggestbarriers also is that there
there have been no alternatives.
So people who don't particularlywant to drink will still
continue to drink because thereisn't anything else out there.
There hasn't been so what I'mdrinking tonight is it's called
a black velvet. And it hasPathfinder hemp and root which
is like an amaro very flavorful,very herbaceous, rich in the
(07:18):
mouth got wonderful mouthtexture. This is called
Tennyson, black, ginger, thecombination of these two
together, it really has thatclassic sort of madman kind of
feel cocktail. And it's got someall the bitter alcohol free
bitters, orange bitters, whichare great and then a little bit
of just cherry juice.
Kristen Daukas (07:39):
If you're not watching this, she has Bada Bing
cherries, y'all
Unknown (07:43):
bing,
Kristen Daukas (07:44):
bada bing, gotta gotta
Unknown (07:45):
have the bottoming.
They're absolutely delicious. Soyou just put these together. The
beautiful thing is, is when youadd the bitters and you add a
little bit of the cherry juice,it really brings out the
mouthfeel and that's what wewant to focus on. On making an
alcohol free cocktail. Sometimeswe need to add a little bit of
salt tincture, which is justfour parts water one part salt,
and what that does is it createsmore of a texture in your mouth
(08:08):
brings up that mouthfeel ofalcohol because you can omit
eliminate is significantlydifferent than you know a gin
and tonic type of thing the feelof it in your mouth. You'll also
find a lot of spirits spiritalternatives that have a
capsicum, a pepper type to it.
So it's got that burns withemulates the burn of alcohol.
(08:29):
Interesting,
Kristen Daukas (08:30):
interesting.
Let's talk a little bit about Iknow that you're very involved
in the community. What is thereaction been? And I'm sure that
it's gotten some I don't want tosay better, but kind of better,
more comfortable, right? Becauseit's such a especially for
people are, so I'm gonna say GenX and Boomers, right? It is such
a weird concept that if I'mgoing to drink a cocktail a
(08:55):
mocktail, why don't I just drinkcocktail? And again, I
understand that it's in we'vehad this conversation before
about people. Have you had anyresistance from say, you know,
someone wanting interested inhaving you come set up your
alcohol free bar? Or they'retypically also regular bars
there as well? Or are youfinding that most of these
(09:17):
events that you're doing, it'sall alcohol free? Does that make
sense? It does
Unknown (09:25):
make total sense, right? So we can set up as a bar
alone. So it's an alcohol freebar, we're the only one that
serving, we can also set upalongside a bar itself. That's
been a big opposition. I've hadpeople have that, you know, just
contort their fit. You meanyou'd have to have two bars. We
don't have to have two bars, butI can promise you that the
(09:45):
alcohol bar does not put nearlyas much time effort and care
into creating a beautifulcrafted cocktail elicits non
alcoholic, delicious and adultcocktail. Right. So yes, you can
absolutely get some nicecocktails and alcohol free
cocktails, it won't be theirprimary focus. It would be like
going to a steak house andasking for you know, chicken
(10:07):
Marbella. Whatever. It's there.
It's not what they focus on andwhat I do and what alcohol free
bars focus on is creating theexperience so it emulates I
mean, our tagline is the ritualwithout the alcohol. So have I
gotten pushback? Oh, hell yeah.
I've gotten some pushback. I dida New Year's Eve party in
Burlington on Church Street andI had one woman walk up with
(10:31):
completely indignant, it's allnon alcoholic. She rolled her
eyes turned on her heel huffedand just stormed away. I mean,
it was actually funny. I waslike, okay, not for you. That's
okay. No, cool. But, and I havemost of the people that have
come up to our bar, have beensuper excited to try it. Or oh
my gosh, I've been sober forthree years. I've been sober for
(10:52):
nine years. I've been sober forthree weeks. And they're so
excited at the opportunity tohave have an option have an
alcohol free, flavorfulcocktail. Couple of people have
been like, oh, so Coholic, free,alcohol free. I'm like, Just try
it. You can throw it out. Youcan spit it out. Don't just try
it. Every single one of them hasbeen like, this is good. And
(11:12):
almost all of them came back fora second. So you know, the thing
is, is being open minded to it.
Try it. The beautiful thing andI'm gonna go down another little
tangent here. The beautifulthing is me. Yes, we do. There's
alcohol, free bourbons and ginand tequila is those are our
alcohol substitutes. They'retrying to emulate bourbon, gin,
tequila, right? What I see doingreally well, and those are doing
(11:34):
really well. But what I seedoing really well are the
alcohol free alternatives. Sothey're not trying to
compartmentalize them and putthem into a box like, doesn't
taste like bourbon and like,well, it's not bourbon. It is a
spirit and alcohol free spiritis trying to emulate bourbon and
they've done a really great job.
I have one here that is myfavorite. It's it's Kentucky 74.
It spiritless it's a woman ownedcompany, which I always love to
(11:56):
promote a woman on covering. Itis a really nice bourbon. It
smells like bourbon, alcoholfree, obviously. But it's not
there's zero alcohol. So have Ihad pushed back 100%. But for
the most part, people havereally softened once they try it
and realize you can truly have asophisticated delicious alcohol
(12:16):
free drink well, and
Kristen Daukas (12:17):
I just imagined that the more popular than the
move becomes, that's why theyget such a great idea for you to
focus all your efforts on it isyou know, you're going to it's
you're at the beginning of kindof a revolution. Because the
millennials and Gen Z are not. Imean, they're fine. I mean, you
(12:40):
know, okay, some of them aremore into edibles, but okay,
that's fine. You know,California, exactly. California
sober, and, but they still, youknow, I know when my oldest
daughter goes out and shedoesn't want to drink, she's
stuck with sucking on tonicwater. And because so many
(13:00):
sodas, a splash of cranberry,whatever. And because it going
back to how people kind ofpoopoo if you're not drinking,
and it's like in but she doesn'twant to drink water. So these
are great alternatives. And youand I had a conversation about
just yesterday and somethingthat was able to in our
professional world that I wasable to pass along and it was
(13:22):
very well received the way I didit. Like you said profit over
the profit over paper. And whichis establishments, restaurants,
bars, etc, need to make the tostop making it an afterthought
and incorporate it into theirdrink menu. So it doesn't you
know it, you've already said areyou sure you're not drinking.
(13:44):
So, you know, people that aren'tdrinking, they don't want to
have that additional, you know,beasty not drinking, not
drinking. So you don't want tohave a separate menu, I guess is
where I'm going and that youwere telling me about and I was
just recently in a place whereit was just completely woven in.
Unknown (14:04):
When it's woven in, people feel very comfortable
because they're ordering likethey would order a black velvet.
And they would know that it'salcohol free and it comes in it
looks like it unfortunatelyagain our society there's
something wrong with people ifthey're not drinking alcohol. So
if you look at the statistics,there are there's a fairly high
percentage of people, thatpercentage is coming down over
the last year or two that willcontinue to drink because they
(14:27):
don't they're a they're afraidof losing their community that
their friends if they stoppeddrinking, they peer pressure to
not drink all of that. Sothey're actually drinking even
though they don't want tobecause of fear of whatever it
may be, which I just think is sosad. And there have been reports
or you know, studies done on thebullying. Oh, come on. It's only
(14:49):
a drink. Oh man, have a drink.
So that gets people stayingdrinking, even though they don't
want to because they're afraidof removing themselves from
their community. and loneliness,which I think is terribly sad.
And that's why with alcohol freeit is about and we talk about
inclusion. This is exactly whatis inclusion, right? Being able
to have an alternative thatdoesn't make you stand out. And
(15:12):
unfortunately, even in today'sday and age, we still want to
fit in, right? You don't want tostand out like a sore thumb when
everyone else is drinking, andwe've got a plastic water
bottle, because that's allthey've got for you. Right?
Kristen Daukas (15:24):
And I love water. I drink water all day
long. But if I'm out with myfriends, I don't want another
water. And you know, I love howyou've create crafted these
crafted these recipes. Becauseeven in the sad conversation
that I had yesterday, the personwas like, oh, yeah, well just to
have regular drinks and justtake the alcohol out of him like
(15:44):
now because it doubt now youralcohol free Margarita is some
damn sweet and sour sauce.
Unknown (15:51):
Well, it's also a virgin, right? What adult wants
to say I'd like a virginMargarita, please. Yes, that
just you're not going to do it.
You're going to order water. Andwhat were you were saying before
you're leaving money on thetable as
Kristen Daukas (16:02):
business owners?
Absolutely Oh, many
Unknown (16:04):
benefits for the for the customer. But for you as a
business owner, you don't needto do that. You don't need to
add alcohol free, but you areleaving a significant amount of
money on it. Yeah, because
Kristen Daukas (16:13):
somebody will buy a $12 mocktail. Or they will
if they don't have it, theywill, they will take a $0 glass
of water water. And if that'swhat you're, you know, we're
none of us are in business togive things away. Right? We're
in business to make a profit. Imean, we really are. So how have
you seen and we kind of touchedon this already? In everything
(16:36):
that you've done with tonic? Areyou starting to see more shifts
in the acceptability and theinterest and I would say some of
your pop up shops. That'sprobably been a great
opportunity for you to reallyedit because I've seen some of
the pictures. And it looks likepeople are just like, oh my god,
I had no idea.
Unknown (16:58):
Yeah, that's exactly they're coming in and they're
tasting. And it's, I mean, thenonalcoholic movement is where
the vegan movement was, what,six 810 years ago, like, oh,
it's vegan, it's gonna sockright. We are moved starting to
move past that. And what I loveabout doing these pop ups is I
have 1215 bottles of spiritsopen that you can actually
(17:19):
taste. So when people can comein and they can actually taste
it. And I'm like, Damn, that'sgood. And I'll actually there's
a few things like the drink I'mdrinking tonight. I can actually
mix that up. Not exact because Idon't always have the cherry
juice, but they can get an ideaof the mixture of it. So they
were like this is reallysatiating, or I did a bowl of
RDA for someone and I just mixedthe three different so both RDA
(17:41):
is bourbon, sweet vermouth. Andlike a Campari with or Negroni,
you would just put substituteBerman for gin. And I put those
three together and a little cupand they bought all three of the
bottles at 38 to $40 apiece,because it's the ritual that the
alcohol that satiated their needfor just something you know that
that that ritual and that ritualis often at the end of the day
(18:04):
to delineate between work andhome, we pour that glass of
wine, we have that gin and tonicor whatever it is. So we can
still continue that habit, thatritual, but it doesn't have to
affect our energy level orclarity level or relationships,
any of it.
Kristen Daukas (18:20):
And if you're just dropping in I'm talking
with Lisa Dan forth who is thealcohol free founder of or
should the founder of thealcohol free tonic mobile bar,
which will will be a brick andmortar at some point. So tell me
what are some of the mostsurprising or unique ingredients
these you have that you use inyour syrup's in your shrubs? Oh,
(18:44):
there's
Unknown (18:44):
I've made a coffee syrup, which was crazy.
Kristen Daukas (18:48):
So to become an Espresso Martini, yes,
Unknown (18:52):
so good. I mean, so very good. And multiple other
things. I have I've had a hardtime finding a muscle that I can
have a good flavor, but itdoesn't have quite the smokiness
that I want. So I have made asimple syrup, just which is
equal parts, sugar and water.
And I add in I always butcherthis it's like Lapsang Shu song,
(19:12):
whatever it is that really smokytea. So I'll throw a tablespoon
into that to the simple syrup.
Let it just cool down for anhour to strain it and now I have
this beautiful smokiness that Ican add a teaspoon to a cocktail
like a Maximilian affair whichis just a lovely Mezcal with an
elderflower liqueur, so good.
But you've got that smokiness toit which is just amazing. I've
(19:35):
made some with us made atincture with Sichuan peppers,
which is a really it's got thekick to it. So you just need a
couple of drops. It's almostlike a like a bitter balsamic
vinegar, strawberry and mintshrub. Yo it's so so so tasty.
Oh another one a toasted Sesameseed, rice wine vinegar shrub.
(20:00):
Oh my gosh I serve that withfresh squeezed cucumber juice
and club soda. You would beblown away at the flavor. I did
that at an event A few weeks agoand right beautiful green and
you put a cucumber in as agarnish. So if you just toast
the sesame seeds, add it to thevinegar and the sugar and a
(20:21):
touch of salt. Let it cool,blend it and then you put it
through a sieve to take out anyof the particles and you've got
the toasted sesame seed ricewine vinegar shrub. Crazy tasty
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Kristen Daukas (21:02):
us exactly what a shrub is? Most of us know what
syrup is like a simple searchlike I have. I've infused like
rosemary, Rosemary syrup forcocktails, etc. So And every
year, every year, as soon as mymint comes in, I make a mint
infused simple syrup formosquitoes. But what is a shrub?
Yeah, so
Unknown (21:22):
a shrub is how they used to preserve their fruits
and even veggies years ago. Soit is basically this similar
quantities of sugar and vinegar.
I like to use for the most partvinegar with the mother in it.
So it's got the natural mothertoo. And I'm like, I don't know
how to explain that. But it'sequal parts sugar, vinegar, and
then you can put any type offruit herb spice whatever, I do
(21:42):
a wonderful lemon, cucumbershrub, which is crazy tasty. You
peel three lemons, chop up somecucumbers, ice, put them in
slices, mix it in with thesickness sugar in the vinegar
and leave it on the counter for24 hours, then you just strain
it, and that you've got the mostdelicious little sweet, tart
pickles that you can just use.
(22:04):
But then the shrub is great withjust simply club soda or you
could put in a tonic or mix itwith any type of spirit or
whatnot. It's super easy andsuper liquid
Kristen Daukas (22:12):
considered the shrub or is it the the you know,
the the fruits and the things ofthat nature? Is that considered?
Unknown (22:18):
That's an excellent question. What what I think is
that the shrub is what you'redrinking. Okay, so you preserve
they used to preserve the fruitsand veggies and whatnot in the
vinegar and the sugar. But theshrub is what you drink. I could
be very wrong on that. So youmight get 100 People like she's
wrong.
Kristen Daukas (22:36):
Let them come by now let
Unknown (22:38):
them sticking with it.
I'm
Kristen Daukas (22:39):
trying to come.
I don't care. So how is how areyou and tonic educating folks?
As far as like, you know, makingthem form feel more welcome and
assessable. Do you? Again, wetouched on this a little bit
with some of the events but doyou find most of the people that
are coming up to you alreadyhave experience alcohol free
(23:01):
libations? Or are you having todo as much education as you are
mixology?
Unknown (23:11):
Education is a huge component of it because it's not
like I said it's not readilyavailable around here. So people
might have ordered something andthey might see something or they
might have tasted something in acocktail at a restaurant. But
it's really education andtalking about the mouthfeel and
adding a salt tincture and itwhy wine it has some
effervescence to it actually hasmore of the mouthfeel of
(23:32):
traditional wines. So that justtastes so much better than a
flat wine. Because alcohol freeones still have a long way to
go. They've come a long way Ihave found some really tasty
wines. I found a great red wine.
It's a surely it's called su Rel why surely red bland, super
simple got a very lighteffervescence does not taste
(23:52):
grapey it is not that mostdelicious Pinot Noir, but it's
still satiating and then SoVisparkling white is delicious. So
that sparkling. So when I caneducate people that why one
might taste better over the overthe other is often because of
the sparkle. You can also add alittle bit of aromatic bitters
to your alcohol free if you wantto keep it alcohol free, but a
(24:15):
couple of dashes of alcohol freebitters to a red wine, because
the red ones are the ones thatare lagging the most behind and
something about it fills it outsoftens the edges to it. And it
makes it quite delicious.
Kristen Daukas (24:29):
It's been a long time since I've tried an alcohol
free wine. I think I wasprobably pregnant and I was I
think it was free fr EE and Iwas like, nope, not even. Not
even worth it. Yeah, I was like,
Unknown (24:43):
I have dumped a lot of spirits too. I mean, for two
years I was doing this just justplaying around with it and I'd
get something and I'm like thatis awful. And it was 40 bucks
and I don't feel the need todrink. And
Kristen Daukas (24:54):
I'm an adult and I'm an adult and I don't have to
Yeah, it's something I'm tryingto teach my girls it's like if
If it serves you no purpose, itdoesn't matter how much you've
already spent the money, it'sgone.
Unknown (25:05):
So that's, I mean, with the pop up pop up bottle shops,
I have a very curated list thatI have been building over the
last three years. So people can,you know, and I've explained,
I've dumped a lot of spirits outthere, and my tastes isn't for
everyone. But for the most part,people like a majority of what
they're tasting, it might justbe that they don't like the
flavor of somethingspecifically. And
Kristen Daukas (25:27):
for me, I truly do enjoy the taste, right? So if
I could find a good so if I'mgoing to I'm not going to waste
my time and my energy on analcohol free wine. I'm just not
like you said, they're not thereyet. If I am, I'm gonna I'm
looking for more of those craftcocktails. Because that's, it's
the experience of it. Right?
And, you know, I love my wine.
(25:50):
That's, you know, and I love agood cocktail. But I'm not going
to sit there and pound for oldfashions. Yeah, I'm gonna have
a, an old fashion, right. So,you know, if the if there is a
true classic, you know, youknow, alcohol free compare, you
know, version of it. I'm totallydown for trying that. 100%
Unknown (26:12):
I have a really great recipe and I'll share it with
you. Okay, cool. Um,
Kristen Daukas (26:15):
speaking of recipes, how many have you come
up with so far do you would yousay, oh,
Unknown (26:20):
my gosh, a lot. I will.
I will also say a lot of theSpirit companies have recipes on
their websites. So I am not abartender, I am a I'm a caterer,
I do food. I have no experiencein bartending whatsoever.
Actually, you
Kristen Daukas (26:34):
are a bartender, which you're not as a mixer.
You're not a mixologist.
mixologist. Exactly. Which isone of the reasons why I can't
go even if I do want to get likea second job just to get it on
the house. I'm like, I'm not amixologist. I was a bartender.
Unknown (26:48):
Right, and you'd need a good bartender but for, for me,
for the most part, and it's whatI did when I had my food
catering for 14 years is I'dfind a recipe and then I tweak
it to the way that I like it.
But yeah, that doesn't. I don'tlike that flavor. I'm going to
add this flavor and play aroundwith it. But almost all the
spirits when you go to theirwebsites, they have recipes,
which excuse me, I love becausepeople are like, What do I do
with this and like just go tothe website. They've got all
(27:11):
these amazing recipes. Iactually go into Pinterest and I
collect all sorts of classicrecipes. If they've got if I
have the ingredients like I havean elderberry, excuse me,
elderflower liqueur. So I canmake all sorts of delicious
things that have ordered like aSaint Germain. It's delicious.
Absolutely delicious. So you canit when you finally find some
liquorice and alcohol freespirits, spirit alternatives
(27:34):
that you like, just startlooking for recipes that have
those ingredients in justtraditional recipes. Have
Kristen Daukas (27:41):
you found your favorites yet? Are you really
trying all sorts of differentvendors?
Unknown (27:48):
I have a few favorites, but there's still so many out
there. I mean, I can't. I'm asmall company. I would love to
order them all in. But it's justit's too much. I love Pathfinder
that is one of our most popularones, the Pathfinder, two ounces
of Pathfinder, half of an ounceof lemon juice, three or four
ounces of ginger beer supersimple, crazy tasty. The
(28:08):
Maximilian affair which has theMezcal, the elderflower liqueur.
It's got some orange liqueur init really crazy, tasty.
Amethyst, blueberry, ginger,there's a cocktail that they
have on their website that'scalled Sweet Caroline and it's a
yummy, yummy spirit actuallydon't have any amount right now.
But that was an elderberry shrubwhich is from a company called
(28:30):
sweets. If you can find thatsweets, elderberry shrub there
woman on company from down SouthKorea. Oh, so good. So two
ounces of the amethyst, half ofan ounce of lime juice half of
an ounce of the elderberryshrub, mix that up top of the
ginger bear, you would not knowit's not alcohol free. It's a
medicine that it is alcoholfree.
Kristen Daukas (28:50):
Where do you see the alcohol free beverage
industry heading and whatinnovations are you excited
about?
Unknown (28:58):
Where do I see it heading? It's that is
interesting. So the spirits arebeing now being sold, which is
wonderful, but they're beingsold in Target and Walmart and
all of this I was
Kristen Daukas (29:09):
gonna ask where because like we're here in North
Carolina, we're state supported,right? So you have to go to the
liquor store, where it's like inyou know, like Chicago and your
a lot of your other big areas.
You know, it's it's folded intoyour grocery store. But
Unknown (29:23):
alcohol free you it's just like buying tea or
kombucha,
Kristen Daukas (29:27):
right? I'll have to look the next time I go to a
target because I you know, theysell beer and wine at our
target. So I would imagine Imean, so I'm gonna have to look
next time I go. Okay, so finish.
I'm sorry, I interrupted you. So
Unknown (29:38):
there are some I know, someone who's an Austin there's
a Walmart or Target target thathas just a crazy extensive array
of alcohol free, which iswonderful because it's getting
them out there into thecommunity, right. It's also
hurting the small local shopsthat were the ones that started
started from scratch brought itto the community. And what
(30:01):
they're seeing, unfortunately,is a lot of people coming in and
tasting for free, and then goingto Walmart and Target or
wherever to buy the bottles. SoI've seen a couple of businesses
go OUT out of business. It'sjust because it's hard, the
margins are super small. When Ido my pop ups I do it out of
because I love bringing it tothe community, the margins are
super small. So you've got to beable to have a community and
(30:23):
that's one of the things withVermont we have less than
650,000 people in the entirestates. Right. So being the
first is important because notto be the first that because
they're really with so fewpeople in the state in there's
really only one large city, itcan only it can only handle
maybe one possibly two alcoholfree bars right now, I think
(30:46):
until the movement really startstaking over and people are
totally set for it. But that'swhere I kind of see some some
things going on within thealcohol free. You know, a lot of
right now that our TDs are readyto drink or just blasting out of
the water the CANS becausethey're super easy or you know,
the younger generation willdescribe them hot water, which
has a water but it has thathoppy beer hoppy essence to it
(31:09):
is is like one of the leadingthings out there right now.
Again, wine is starting to pickup because the flavors are
getting better. And I find thatthe alcohol free alternatives
rather than the substitutes,which sub substituting vodka and
gin, the alternatives areactually doing better for me,
because people aren'tcompartmentalizing them and
(31:31):
saying it should taste likethis. Right?
Kristen Daukas (31:34):
Right. But you're not going to do a shot of
alcohol free bourbon.
Unknown (31:39):
They do. I've been seeing it in some bars. I'm
like, I don't really get that.
But you know, but it's the it'sthe ritual, right? It's the
ritual without the alcohol sothey can just do a shot and it's
maybe
Kristen Daukas (31:51):
I should have used to kilos a better reference
on doing shots. Because nothinggood happens once shots of
tequila start. Nothing. I'vetold all my guests. Absolutely
nothing. What happens oncetequila is involved? Nothing. I
don't care what you can do.
Unknown (32:08):
I make a crazy tasty Blackberry, jalapeno Margarita,
I make my own BlackBerryjalapenos, simple syrup, fresh
leaves, lime juice, tequila,orange sec. So good. So everyone
that I've served that too, hasbeen like this is alcohol free.
I'm like,
Kristen Daukas (32:24):
so So we're closing in on the end, believe
it or not, and you didn't thinklike I didn't think we could get
through all those questions. ButI've got one more than I think
it's I think it's appropriate toend with considering how we
started. What advice would yougive to someone who wants to be
more mindful about their alcoholconsumption?
Unknown (32:43):
That's an excellent question. And it really is
different for absolutely everyperson, right. So I have found
someone who could be a ragingalcoholic can just be like I'm
quitting. And they can pick upan alcohol free beer and be
fine. I've seen people who, youknow, we're having a drink or an
issue with alcohol, and theyjust stay away from it because
everything is a trigger. So forthe person that wants to be more
(33:03):
mindful, I would say talk tosomeone else about it. So that
accountability partner kind ofso you can check in be like, You
know what, we're not drinkingthis week eight and have that I
think accountability is key. Ifthat works for you, and you have
that agreement that it's nonjudgmental, it's just we will
often let ourselves down, but wewon't let other people down. So
having that little bit ofaccountability really works.
(33:26):
have something in mind that youwant to drink. So if you are
going somewhere, I don't havealcohol free, I have these cans
of wine, and I sell a lot ofthem at the bottle shop because
I'm like, if you're goingsomewhere, you can just pop one
in your bag, and you can justpull it out.
Kristen Daukas (33:42):
That's an idea.
That's a great tip.
Unknown (33:45):
It is easy, right? So you want to make it easy, you
want to make the choice simple,you want to think ahead and say,
I'm not drinking tonight, ifthey don't have an alcohol free
cocktail, I'm going to have x,right. So just be clear on how
you want to feel. I'm going togo into my coaching here, that
time and consistency piece, wevalue the present more than we
(34:08):
value the future. So we valuethe present, the reward is in
the moment we value the presentand that we get to be a part of
everything and we're feelingreally good. Ah, screw it, I'll
do it tomorrow, right? And be apart of everything that's going
on. But the cost is in thefuture. When you wake up the
next morning, you're like shit,I can't believe I just did that
again. Right? So when we canswitch that around and have sort
(34:28):
of the cost and the moment ofokay, I need to plan ahead. It
might be uncomfortable. But ifsomeone is asking me, I don't
need to answer right. So you'vegot to plan in mind who you need
to be in order to stand in yourground, stand in your
authenticity and be unapologeticin your choices. And when you do
that, it is your responsibilityto set those boundaries to be
(34:50):
clear, direct and respectful. Itis not your responsibility, how
it lands for the other person.
So if you just say I'm notdrinking and they ask why you
can just say Not drinking andthen you zip it, you don't get
into a conversation with them. Ipersonally would just look them
straight in the eye and juststand there, right? I want the
discomfort if you're if you havethe tenacity, to, why don't you
drink and what's wrong with you,I get to stand there and my
(35:14):
confidence, and everythingthat's going on is about them.
It's not about you. And that'swhat we get hooked by is, you
know, everybody's looking at me.
No, they're actually, you know,it's the other person. It's
making them uncomfortable.
Kristen Daukas (35:29):
It's and that's okay. That's okay. That's
Unknown (35:31):
what happens is we often we, especially as women
tend to we don't want the otheroh my gosh, the other person is
uncomfortable, you know. So thenyou enjoy, engage in the
conversation, leave it, let itland on the floor. And that is a
beautiful lesson for the otherperson. And or
Kristen Daukas (35:48):
I'm hoping that, like, we talked earlier, that
we're starting to get away fromthat a little bit as far as
being you know, people are like,okay, cool, whatever. But it's
like, why is it so important toyou know, why, why is my not
drinking so important to you,making
Unknown (36:03):
you so long, right? You know why? Because it highlights
more than likely, they know thatthey are in that gray area, or
they're drinking too much. Andit makes them uncomfortable, so
that when we can get the peoplearound us doing something that
we know is not healthy. I mean,it's toxic, it is toxic. I
don't, I don't go ranting andraving and preaching. I still
(36:24):
drink myself, I don't drink alot, but I still drink, right.
So I'm not like it's toxic. It'sbad. But you know, it's mindful
drinking. So if you've beendrinking a 12 pack a night and
you cut it back to six a night,that is mindful drinking, and
then you can cut it back tothree, and then you can cut it
back to one, right or maybe youstay at three. And that's where
you want to stay. When you canrelease the judgment, the
(36:46):
pressure, the guilt, the shame,it allows you to step into your
authentic self and be who youwant to be unapologetically.
Right? And if tubers and AI isgood for you. Good, then do it.
Right. But that judgment andthat shame on yourself is only
going to make you feel like shitand go back and go back into
drinking. Yeah, so do it in away that supports you to be
(37:08):
sustainable in it. Right?
Kristen Daukas (37:11):
It's like when somebody needs to go on a diet
and they go, I'm not eatinganything but chicken and rice.
I'm like, No, don't do thatyou're gonna fail, you're gonna
fail.
Unknown (37:23):
That's why I still drink. I haven't had a drink for
a month. But if I want to drink,I have learned to pause, you
know, it's five o'clock, I'mreally late because it's that
transition or whatever it is.
And like, you know, six o'clockrolls around, I still want it,
I'll have it right.
Kristen Daukas (37:37):
And it's it's scientifically proven that your
body it completely changes yourbody chemistry. And your body
knows that at five o'clock, it'stime let's go. And that's why
you something that's it's just,it's crazy how
Unknown (37:52):
it is more. Yeah, more habit than anything that you
believe. Yeah. So
Kristen Daukas (37:55):
this has been such a great conversation. I
really, really appreciate it.
And I am going to put everythingin the shownotes on how people
can find you. And once I get allof the stuff, I will send you
graphics to share it and sharewith everyone so much good
information. And such a you knowgreat positive spin on it not
really even a spin. It's justthere are going to be a lot of
(38:18):
people that learn a lot fromthis particular episode. So I
really appreciate you spendingtime with me. And until next
time, I will talk to you guyslater. As the saying goes, you
don't have to go home but youcan stay here and that's a wrap
for this week's episode. A bigthanks to my guests for sharing
their story and to you forlistening. Don't forget to share
(38:40):
the show with your friends andspread the words. And if you'd
like to be a guest on the show,the link is in the show notes
till next time cheers
Welcome to Conversations on the rocks. The
podcast where the drink isstrong and the stories are
stronger. I'm your host, KristenDaukas. And this isn't your
average chat fest. Here realpeople spill the tea alongside
their favorite drinks from thehilarious to the heart wrenching
each episode a wildcard. You'lllaugh, you may cry, but you'll
definitely learn something new.
So grab whatever whet yourwhistle and buckle up it's time
(00:26):
to dive into the raw, the realand the ridiculously human.
Let's get this chat partystarted. Hey, everyone, it's
Kristen. And today I am excited.
I have with me my friend LisaDanforth and Lisa is an
experienced caterer third yearentrepreneur who's passionate
(00:49):
about mindful mixology andcreating fun, flavorful and
elegant, alcohol free cocktails.
Her company is called tonic.
Lisa is also a leadership andwork life wellbeing coach and
founder of Lisa Danforthcoaching and insider tip. Here's
here's a sneak peek. Herfavorite word is no. Hey, Lisa.
Lisa (01:14):
How are you? I do love that two little letter word.
It's so powerful. It's
Kristen Daukas (01:17):
a whole sentence.
Unknown (01:19):
It is. Absolutely.
Thanks for having me. I'm superexcited. Well nervous with all
the questions, but that's okay.
Well, we'll roll with it andhave some we
Kristen Daukas (01:26):
are going to have some fun. And I think
you've got so much to educatepeople on as far as the and it's
a big thing right now there's ahuge movement with this alcohol
free thing. And you know, aswe've talked about it, whether
you're sober, sober, curious,whether you're pregnant, whether
you're a recovering addict,whatever people first and
(01:48):
foremost ally, Ally and ally.
Exactly. First and foremost,just let's say this right here,
it is none of your business whysomebody doesn't drink.
Hallelujah. If you go in and youknow, my history, you know, with
my my ex husband, if somebodydoesn't want to order a drink,
you don't sit there and go. Oh,are you sure? Yes. I said no.
(02:08):
That's boring. Yeah. Right,exactly. It's like so those of
you out there listening, ifyou're with somebody that
chooses not to drink, it's noneof your business and shut your
piehole
Unknown (02:23):
it's really about not calling someone out. For some
reason, alcohol is the one drugin our community or us whatever,
that there's something wrongwith you if you're not drinking,
so there's this shame when wedon't drink and that just seems
strange alcoholic should say.
And we That's the beautifulthing about the alcohol free
movement. And this mindfuldrinking is sober, the word
(02:44):
sober is actually coming backinto vogue, there's not a
negative connotation, or as muchof a negative connotation.
Because a lot of people are I'msober. And that doesn't mean
that they had a drinkingproblem. It might just be I
mean, it could be religion,right? It could be whatever it
is, but that mindful drinking istruly coming back or truly
taking place, which is justlovely to see. Right?
Kristen Daukas (03:09):
It's not prohibition. It's not
prohibition people it's achoice. And you know, we just
came out of dry January. Well,just I mean, it is April seems
like it just feels like but youknow, I'm starting to see other
months. What's the Octoberthey've labeled October October
October October.
Unknown (03:28):
So there's February was try February, or dry February
dry January, try February. Julyis actually a really big month
for the alcohol free sales aswell because of Fourth of July
and summertime and all of that.
It's also really big time forfor the sales for non alcoholic.
So
Kristen Daukas (03:46):
what was your inspiration? I mean, I know your
story, but my friends out in thein podcast land do not so you
know you are you still are acoach, but you made the decision
with all of us supporting youand going go Lisa go to really
dive into this. So what was yourwhat inspired you to create an
alcohol free bar service, whichhopefully will also soon turn
(04:10):
into a brick and mortar? Yeah,
Unknown (04:12):
lounge? I'm really hoping for that. That's an
excellent question. And it'sexciting for me, but it's
doesn't seem really superexciting when I tell the story,
but it's really it began inCOVID when I was home alone, and
I was a caterer for 14 years. SoI was playing around with all
sorts of alcohol free spiritsand shrubs and simple syrups and
all of that. And then I startedto watch the alcohol rates, the
(04:34):
consumption rates just climbedjust going through the roof,
especially with women,especially with women. Women are
now on par with men for drinkingand that's because the alcohol
companies have really targetedwomen for drinking. But I was
watching all of that rise. I waswatching depression, anxiety,
domestic abuse, child abuse,neglect all of these different
(04:54):
stats just on the rise. And Ibelieve that there was a direct
tie to a lonely ans but alsothat alcohol consumption. So it
just kept piquing my interest.
And I kept playing around withall of these spirits and shrubs
and just having fun with it fora couple of years, then a friend
of mine was like, you know,effect pursuing this and having
fun with it. Why don't youactually just take it hold it
(05:15):
lightly and see about starting abusiness. And I was like, that's
a really good idea. And at thatpoint, it literally just
unfolded. I just, I whippedtogether a website. And in a
matter of weeks, it was amazing.
And it has been such a funjourney. I've been getting such
an amazing response from thecommunity. And it's really all
about building community. It'snot just, you know, just
(05:38):
plopping this business in there.
But it's about buildingcommunity. And the thing is, is
the largest barrier to growth inthe communities out there in the
US especially, is accessibility.
The UK has an ace like they'vegot it all over the place. But
in Vermont, there is no bottleshop and a lot of other places.
There are no bottle shops, or abar might have a couple of
alcohol free cocktails or, youknow, bottle of beer or
(06:02):
something. But it's it's notaccessible. So for me to be able
to bring it out to the communityand show it to people. I do
tastings so people can come inand taste the alcohol the
spirits before non alcohol, Ishould say before they buy
because it's not inexpensive.
It's actually a little moreexpensive than traditional
alcohol because it takes so muchmore to make something that
emulates the flavor and has asatiating essence to it.
Kristen Daukas (06:24):
So you have a mocktail, right now, let's tell
tell us about it. And then Iwant you to describe it. And how
how? How are you able to mimicthe complexity and enjoyment of
those traditional cocktails?
What is going to make me say Iwant a $15 alcohol free beverage
over I just ball just have nopassion. I mean, other than the
(06:50):
alcohol piece of it, right?
Unknown (06:53):
That's exactly the alcohol piece really, really
isn't. But the thing is, is wewant to have alternatives. And
that's one of the biggestbarriers also is that there
there have been no alternatives.
So people who don't particularlywant to drink will still
continue to drink because thereisn't anything else out there.
There hasn't been so what I'mdrinking tonight is it's called
a black velvet. And it hasPathfinder hemp and root which
is like an amaro very flavorful,very herbaceous, rich in the
(07:18):
mouth got wonderful mouthtexture. This is called
Tennyson, black, ginger, thecombination of these two
together, it really has thatclassic sort of madman kind of
feel cocktail. And it's got someall the bitter alcohol free
bitters, orange bitters, whichare great and then a little bit
of just cherry juice.
Kristen Daukas (07:39):
If you're not watching this, she has Bada Bing
cherries, y'all
Unknown (07:43):
bing,
Kristen Daukas (07:44):
bada bing, gotta gotta
Unknown (07:45):
have the bottoming.
They're absolutely delicious. Soyou just put these together. The
beautiful thing is, is when youadd the bitters and you add a
little bit of the cherry juice,it really brings out the
mouthfeel and that's what wewant to focus on. On making an
alcohol free cocktail. Sometimeswe need to add a little bit of
salt tincture, which is justfour parts water one part salt,
and what that does is it createsmore of a texture in your mouth
(08:08):
brings up that mouthfeel ofalcohol because you can omit
eliminate is significantlydifferent than you know a gin
and tonic type of thing the feelof it in your mouth. You'll also
find a lot of spirits spiritalternatives that have a
capsicum, a pepper type to it.
So it's got that burns withemulates the burn of alcohol.
(08:29):
Interesting,
Kristen Daukas (08:30):
interesting.
Let's talk a little bit about Iknow that you're very involved
in the community. What is thereaction been? And I'm sure that
it's gotten some I don't want tosay better, but kind of better,
more comfortable, right? Becauseit's such a especially for
people are, so I'm gonna say GenX and Boomers, right? It is such
a weird concept that if I'mgoing to drink a cocktail a
(08:55):
mocktail, why don't I just drinkcocktail? And again, I
understand that it's in we'vehad this conversation before
about people. Have you had anyresistance from say, you know,
someone wanting interested inhaving you come set up your
alcohol free bar? Or they'retypically also regular bars
there as well? Or are youfinding that most of these
(09:17):
events that you're doing, it'sall alcohol free? Does that make
sense? It does
Unknown (09:25):
make total sense, right? So we can set up as a bar
alone. So it's an alcohol freebar, we're the only one that
serving, we can also set upalongside a bar itself. That's
been a big opposition. I've hadpeople have that, you know, just
contort their fit. You meanyou'd have to have two bars. We
don't have to have two bars, butI can promise you that the
(09:45):
alcohol bar does not put nearlyas much time effort and care
into creating a beautifulcrafted cocktail elicits non
alcoholic, delicious and adultcocktail. Right. So yes, you can
absolutely get some nicecocktails and alcohol free
cocktails, it won't be theirprimary focus. It would be like
going to a steak house andasking for you know, chicken
(10:07):
Marbella. Whatever. It's there.
It's not what they focus on andwhat I do and what alcohol free
bars focus on is creating theexperience so it emulates I
mean, our tagline is the ritualwithout the alcohol. So have I
gotten pushback? Oh, hell yeah.
I've gotten some pushback. I dida New Year's Eve party in
Burlington on Church Street andI had one woman walk up with
(10:31):
completely indignant, it's allnon alcoholic. She rolled her
eyes turned on her heel huffedand just stormed away. I mean,
it was actually funny. I waslike, okay, not for you. That's
okay. No, cool. But, and I havemost of the people that have
come up to our bar, have beensuper excited to try it. Or oh
my gosh, I've been sober forthree years. I've been sober for
(10:52):
nine years. I've been sober forthree weeks. And they're so
excited at the opportunity tohave have an option have an
alcohol free, flavorfulcocktail. Couple of people have
been like, oh, so Coholic, free,alcohol free. I'm like, Just try
it. You can throw it out. Youcan spit it out. Don't just try
it. Every single one of them hasbeen like, this is good. And
(11:12):
almost all of them came back fora second. So you know, the thing
is, is being open minded to it.
Try it. The beautiful thing andI'm gonna go down another little
tangent here. The beautifulthing is me. Yes, we do. There's
alcohol, free bourbons and ginand tequila is those are our
alcohol substitutes. They'retrying to emulate bourbon, gin,
tequila, right? What I see doingreally well, and those are doing
(11:34):
really well. But what I seedoing really well are the
alcohol free alternatives. Sothey're not trying to
compartmentalize them and putthem into a box like, doesn't
taste like bourbon and like,well, it's not bourbon. It is a
spirit and alcohol free spiritis trying to emulate bourbon and
they've done a really great job.
I have one here that is myfavorite. It's it's Kentucky 74.
It spiritless it's a woman ownedcompany, which I always love to
(11:56):
promote a woman on covering. Itis a really nice bourbon. It
smells like bourbon, alcoholfree, obviously. But it's not
there's zero alcohol. So have Ihad pushed back 100%. But for
the most part, people havereally softened once they try it
and realize you can truly have asophisticated delicious alcohol
(12:16):
free drink well, and
Kristen Daukas (12:17):
I just imagined that the more popular than the
move becomes, that's why theyget such a great idea for you to
focus all your efforts on it isyou know, you're going to it's
you're at the beginning of kindof a revolution. Because the
millennials and Gen Z are not. Imean, they're fine. I mean, you
(12:40):
know, okay, some of them aremore into edibles, but okay,
that's fine. You know,California, exactly. California
sober, and, but they still, youknow, I know when my oldest
daughter goes out and shedoesn't want to drink, she's
stuck with sucking on tonicwater. And because so many
(13:00):
sodas, a splash of cranberry,whatever. And because it going
back to how people kind ofpoopoo if you're not drinking,
and it's like in but she doesn'twant to drink water. So these
are great alternatives. And youand I had a conversation about
just yesterday and somethingthat was able to in our
professional world that I wasable to pass along and it was
(13:22):
very well received the way I didit. Like you said profit over
the profit over paper. And whichis establishments, restaurants,
bars, etc, need to make the tostop making it an afterthought
and incorporate it into theirdrink menu. So it doesn't you
know it, you've already said areyou sure you're not drinking.
(13:44):
So, you know, people that aren'tdrinking, they don't want to
have that additional, you know,beasty not drinking, not
drinking. So you don't want tohave a separate menu, I guess is
where I'm going and that youwere telling me about and I was
just recently in a place whereit was just completely woven in.
Unknown (14:04):
When it's woven in, people feel very comfortable
because they're ordering likethey would order a black velvet.
And they would know that it'salcohol free and it comes in it
looks like it unfortunatelyagain our society there's
something wrong with people ifthey're not drinking alcohol. So
if you look at the statistics,there are there's a fairly high
percentage of people, thatpercentage is coming down over
the last year or two that willcontinue to drink because they
(14:27):
don't they're a they're afraidof losing their community that
their friends if they stoppeddrinking, they peer pressure to
not drink all of that. Sothey're actually drinking even
though they don't want tobecause of fear of whatever it
may be, which I just think is sosad. And there have been reports
or you know, studies done on thebullying. Oh, come on. It's only
(14:49):
a drink. Oh man, have a drink.
So that gets people stayingdrinking, even though they don't
want to because they're afraidof removing themselves from
their community. and loneliness,which I think is terribly sad.
And that's why with alcohol freeit is about and we talk about
inclusion. This is exactly whatis inclusion, right? Being able
to have an alternative thatdoesn't make you stand out. And
(15:12):
unfortunately, even in today'sday and age, we still want to
fit in, right? You don't want tostand out like a sore thumb when
everyone else is drinking, andwe've got a plastic water
bottle, because that's allthey've got for you. Right?
Kristen Daukas (15:24):
And I love water. I drink water all day
long. But if I'm out with myfriends, I don't want another
water. And you know, I love howyou've create crafted these
crafted these recipes. Becauseeven in the sad conversation
that I had yesterday, the personwas like, oh, yeah, well just to
have regular drinks and justtake the alcohol out of him like
(15:44):
now because it doubt now youralcohol free Margarita is some
damn sweet and sour sauce.
Unknown (15:51):
Well, it's also a virgin, right? What adult wants
to say I'd like a virginMargarita, please. Yes, that
just you're not going to do it.
You're going to order water. Andwhat were you were saying before
you're leaving money on thetable as
Kristen Daukas (16:02):
business owners?
Absolutely Oh, many
Unknown (16:04):
benefits for the for the customer. But for you as a
business owner, you don't needto do that. You don't need to
add alcohol free, but you areleaving a significant amount of
money on it. Yeah, because
Kristen Daukas (16:13):
somebody will buy a $12 mocktail. Or they will
if they don't have it, theywill, they will take a $0 glass
of water water. And if that'swhat you're, you know, we're
none of us are in business togive things away. Right? We're
in business to make a profit. Imean, we really are. So how have
you seen and we kind of touchedon this already? In everything
(16:36):
that you've done with tonic? Areyou starting to see more shifts
in the acceptability and theinterest and I would say some of
your pop up shops. That'sprobably been a great
opportunity for you to reallyedit because I've seen some of
the pictures. And it looks likepeople are just like, oh my god,
I had no idea.
Unknown (16:58):
Yeah, that's exactly they're coming in and they're
tasting. And it's, I mean, thenonalcoholic movement is where
the vegan movement was, what,six 810 years ago, like, oh,
it's vegan, it's gonna sockright. We are moved starting to
move past that. And what I loveabout doing these pop ups is I
have 1215 bottles of spiritsopen that you can actually
(17:19):
taste. So when people can comein and they can actually taste
it. And I'm like, Damn, that'sgood. And I'll actually there's
a few things like the drink I'mdrinking tonight. I can actually
mix that up. Not exact because Idon't always have the cherry
juice, but they can get an ideaof the mixture of it. So they
were like this is reallysatiating, or I did a bowl of
RDA for someone and I just mixedthe three different so both RDA
(17:41):
is bourbon, sweet vermouth. Andlike a Campari with or Negroni,
you would just put substituteBerman for gin. And I put those
three together and a little cupand they bought all three of the
bottles at 38 to $40 apiece,because it's the ritual that the
alcohol that satiated their needfor just something you know that
that that ritual and that ritualis often at the end of the day
(18:04):
to delineate between work andhome, we pour that glass of
wine, we have that gin and tonicor whatever it is. So we can
still continue that habit, thatritual, but it doesn't have to
affect our energy level orclarity level or relationships,
any of it.
Kristen Daukas (18:20):
And if you're just dropping in I'm talking
with Lisa Dan forth who is thealcohol free founder of or
should the founder of thealcohol free tonic mobile bar,
which will will be a brick andmortar at some point. So tell me
what are some of the mostsurprising or unique ingredients
these you have that you use inyour syrup's in your shrubs? Oh,
(18:44):
there's
Unknown (18:44):
I've made a coffee syrup, which was crazy.
Kristen Daukas (18:48):
So to become an Espresso Martini, yes,
Unknown (18:52):
so good. I mean, so very good. And multiple other
things. I have I've had a hardtime finding a muscle that I can
have a good flavor, but itdoesn't have quite the smokiness
that I want. So I have made asimple syrup, just which is
equal parts, sugar and water.
And I add in I always butcherthis it's like Lapsang Shu song,
(19:12):
whatever it is that really smokytea. So I'll throw a tablespoon
into that to the simple syrup.
Let it just cool down for anhour to strain it and now I have
this beautiful smokiness that Ican add a teaspoon to a cocktail
like a Maximilian affair whichis just a lovely Mezcal with an
elderflower liqueur, so good.
But you've got that smokiness toit which is just amazing. I've
(19:35):
made some with us made atincture with Sichuan peppers,
which is a really it's got thekick to it. So you just need a
couple of drops. It's almostlike a like a bitter balsamic
vinegar, strawberry and mintshrub. Yo it's so so so tasty.
Oh another one a toasted Sesameseed, rice wine vinegar shrub.
(20:00):
Oh my gosh I serve that withfresh squeezed cucumber juice
and club soda. You would beblown away at the flavor. I did
that at an event A few weeks agoand right beautiful green and
you put a cucumber in as agarnish. So if you just toast
the sesame seeds, add it to thevinegar and the sugar and a
(20:21):
touch of salt. Let it cool,blend it and then you put it
through a sieve to take out anyof the particles and you've got
the toasted sesame seed ricewine vinegar shrub. Crazy tasty
hearwhat actual AI generated voices
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if AI generated voices aresaying that about the Wheelers
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Kristen Daukas (21:02):
us exactly what a shrub is? Most of us know what
syrup is like a simple searchlike I have. I've infused like
rosemary, Rosemary syrup forcocktails, etc. So And every
year, every year, as soon as mymint comes in, I make a mint
infused simple syrup formosquitoes. But what is a shrub?
Yeah, so
Unknown (21:22):
a shrub is how they used to preserve their fruits
and even veggies years ago. Soit is basically this similar
quantities of sugar and vinegar.
I like to use for the most partvinegar with the mother in it.
So it's got the natural mothertoo. And I'm like, I don't know
how to explain that. But it'sequal parts sugar, vinegar, and
then you can put any type offruit herb spice whatever, I do
(21:42):
a wonderful lemon, cucumbershrub, which is crazy tasty. You
peel three lemons, chop up somecucumbers, ice, put them in
slices, mix it in with thesickness sugar in the vinegar
and leave it on the counter for24 hours, then you just strain
it, and that you've got the mostdelicious little sweet, tart
pickles that you can just use.
(22:04):
But then the shrub is great withjust simply club soda or you
could put in a tonic or mix itwith any type of spirit or
whatnot. It's super easy andsuper liquid
Kristen Daukas (22:12):
considered the shrub or is it the the you know,
the the fruits and the things ofthat nature? Is that considered?
Unknown (22:18):
That's an excellent question. What what I think is
that the shrub is what you'redrinking. Okay, so you preserve
they used to preserve the fruitsand veggies and whatnot in the
vinegar and the sugar. But theshrub is what you drink. I could
be very wrong on that. So youmight get 100 People like she's
wrong.
Kristen Daukas (22:36):
Let them come by now let
Unknown (22:38):
them sticking with it.
I'm
Kristen Daukas (22:39):
trying to come.
I don't care. So how is how areyou and tonic educating folks?
As far as like, you know, makingthem form feel more welcome and
assessable. Do you? Again, wetouched on this a little bit
with some of the events but doyou find most of the people that
are coming up to you alreadyhave experience alcohol free
(23:01):
libations? Or are you having todo as much education as you are
mixology?
Unknown (23:11):
Education is a huge component of it because it's not
like I said it's not readilyavailable around here. So people
might have ordered something andthey might see something or they
might have tasted something in acocktail at a restaurant. But
it's really education andtalking about the mouthfeel and
adding a salt tincture and itwhy wine it has some
effervescence to it actually hasmore of the mouthfeel of
(23:32):
traditional wines. So that justtastes so much better than a
flat wine. Because alcohol freeones still have a long way to
go. They've come a long way Ihave found some really tasty
wines. I found a great red wine.
It's a surely it's called su Rel why surely red bland, super
simple got a very lighteffervescence does not taste
(23:52):
grapey it is not that mostdelicious Pinot Noir, but it's
still satiating and then SoVisparkling white is delicious. So
that sparkling. So when I caneducate people that why one
might taste better over the overthe other is often because of
the sparkle. You can also add alittle bit of aromatic bitters
to your alcohol free if you wantto keep it alcohol free, but a
(24:15):
couple of dashes of alcohol freebitters to a red wine, because
the red ones are the ones thatare lagging the most behind and
something about it fills it outsoftens the edges to it. And it
makes it quite delicious.
Kristen Daukas (24:29):
It's been a long time since I've tried an alcohol
free wine. I think I wasprobably pregnant and I was I
think it was free fr EE and Iwas like, nope, not even. Not
even worth it. Yeah, I was like,
Unknown (24:43):
I have dumped a lot of spirits too. I mean, for two
years I was doing this just justplaying around with it and I'd
get something and I'm like thatis awful. And it was 40 bucks
and I don't feel the need todrink. And
Kristen Daukas (24:54):
I'm an adult and I'm an adult and I don't have to
Yeah, it's something I'm tryingto teach my girls it's like if
If it serves you no purpose, itdoesn't matter how much you've
already spent the money, it'sgone.
Unknown (25:05):
So that's, I mean, with the pop up pop up bottle shops,
I have a very curated list thatI have been building over the
last three years. So people can,you know, and I've explained,
I've dumped a lot of spirits outthere, and my tastes isn't for
everyone. But for the most part,people like a majority of what
they're tasting, it might justbe that they don't like the
flavor of somethingspecifically. And
Kristen Daukas (25:27):
for me, I truly do enjoy the taste, right? So if
I could find a good so if I'mgoing to I'm not going to waste
my time and my energy on analcohol free wine. I'm just not
like you said, they're not thereyet. If I am, I'm gonna I'm
looking for more of those craftcocktails. Because that's, it's
the experience of it. Right?
And, you know, I love my wine.
(25:50):
That's, you know, and I love agood cocktail. But I'm not going
to sit there and pound for oldfashions. Yeah, I'm gonna have
a, an old fashion, right. So,you know, if the if there is a
true classic, you know, youknow, alcohol free compare, you
know, version of it. I'm totallydown for trying that. 100%
Unknown (26:12):
I have a really great recipe and I'll share it with
you. Okay, cool. Um,
Kristen Daukas (26:15):
speaking of recipes, how many have you come
up with so far do you would yousay, oh,
Unknown (26:20):
my gosh, a lot. I will.
I will also say a lot of theSpirit companies have recipes on
their websites. So I am not abartender, I am a I'm a caterer,
I do food. I have no experiencein bartending whatsoever.
Actually, you
Kristen Daukas (26:34):
are a bartender, which you're not as a mixer.
You're not a mixologist.
mixologist. Exactly. Which isone of the reasons why I can't
go even if I do want to get likea second job just to get it on
the house. I'm like, I'm not amixologist. I was a bartender.
Unknown (26:48):
Right, and you'd need a good bartender but for, for me,
for the most part, and it's whatI did when I had my food
catering for 14 years is I'dfind a recipe and then I tweak
it to the way that I like it.
But yeah, that doesn't. I don'tlike that flavor. I'm going to
add this flavor and play aroundwith it. But almost all the
spirits when you go to theirwebsites, they have recipes,
which excuse me, I love becausepeople are like, What do I do
with this and like just go tothe website. They've got all
(27:11):
these amazing recipes. Iactually go into Pinterest and I
collect all sorts of classicrecipes. If they've got if I
have the ingredients like I havean elderberry, excuse me,
elderflower liqueur. So I canmake all sorts of delicious
things that have ordered like aSaint Germain. It's delicious.
Absolutely delicious. So you canit when you finally find some
liquorice and alcohol freespirits, spirit alternatives
(27:34):
that you like, just startlooking for recipes that have
those ingredients in justtraditional recipes. Have
Kristen Daukas (27:41):
you found your favorites yet? Are you really
trying all sorts of differentvendors?
Unknown (27:48):
I have a few favorites, but there's still so many out
there. I mean, I can't. I'm asmall company. I would love to
order them all in. But it's justit's too much. I love Pathfinder
that is one of our most popularones, the Pathfinder, two ounces
of Pathfinder, half of an ounceof lemon juice, three or four
ounces of ginger beer supersimple, crazy tasty. The
(28:08):
Maximilian affair which has theMezcal, the elderflower liqueur.
It's got some orange liqueur init really crazy, tasty.
Amethyst, blueberry, ginger,there's a cocktail that they
have on their website that'scalled Sweet Caroline and it's a
yummy, yummy spirit actuallydon't have any amount right now.
But that was an elderberry shrubwhich is from a company called
(28:30):
sweets. If you can find thatsweets, elderberry shrub there
woman on company from down SouthKorea. Oh, so good. So two
ounces of the amethyst, half ofan ounce of lime juice half of
an ounce of the elderberryshrub, mix that up top of the
ginger bear, you would not knowit's not alcohol free. It's a
medicine that it is alcoholfree.
Kristen Daukas (28:50):
Where do you see the alcohol free beverage
industry heading and whatinnovations are you excited
about?
Unknown (28:58):
Where do I see it heading? It's that is
interesting. So the spirits arebeing now being sold, which is
wonderful, but they're beingsold in Target and Walmart and
all of this I was
Kristen Daukas (29:09):
gonna ask where because like we're here in North
Carolina, we're state supported,right? So you have to go to the
liquor store, where it's like inyou know, like Chicago and your
a lot of your other big areas.
You know, it's it's folded intoyour grocery store. But
Unknown (29:23):
alcohol free you it's just like buying tea or
kombucha,
Kristen Daukas (29:27):
right? I'll have to look the next time I go to a
target because I you know, theysell beer and wine at our
target. So I would imagine Imean, so I'm gonna have to look
next time I go. Okay, so finish.
I'm sorry, I interrupted you. So
Unknown (29:38):
there are some I know, someone who's an Austin there's
a Walmart or Target target thathas just a crazy extensive array
of alcohol free, which iswonderful because it's getting
them out there into thecommunity, right. It's also
hurting the small local shopsthat were the ones that started
started from scratch brought itto the community. And what
(30:01):
they're seeing, unfortunately,is a lot of people coming in and
tasting for free, and then goingto Walmart and Target or
wherever to buy the bottles. SoI've seen a couple of businesses
go OUT out of business. It'sjust because it's hard, the
margins are super small. When Ido my pop ups I do it out of
because I love bringing it tothe community, the margins are
super small. So you've got to beable to have a community and
(30:23):
that's one of the things withVermont we have less than
650,000 people in the entirestates. Right. So being the
first is important because notto be the first that because
they're really with so fewpeople in the state in there's
really only one large city, itcan only it can only handle
maybe one possibly two alcoholfree bars right now, I think
(30:46):
until the movement really startstaking over and people are
totally set for it. But that'swhere I kind of see some some
things going on within thealcohol free. You know, a lot of
right now that our TDs are readyto drink or just blasting out of
the water the CANS becausethey're super easy or you know,
the younger generation willdescribe them hot water, which
has a water but it has thathoppy beer hoppy essence to it
(31:09):
is is like one of the leadingthings out there right now.
Again, wine is starting to pickup because the flavors are
getting better. And I find thatthe alcohol free alternatives
rather than the substitutes,which sub substituting vodka and
gin, the alternatives areactually doing better for me,
because people aren'tcompartmentalizing them and
(31:31):
saying it should taste likethis. Right?
Kristen Daukas (31:34):
Right. But you're not going to do a shot of
alcohol free bourbon.
Unknown (31:39):
They do. I've been seeing it in some bars. I'm
like, I don't really get that.
But you know, but it's the it'sthe ritual, right? It's the
ritual without the alcohol sothey can just do a shot and it's
maybe
Kristen Daukas (31:51):
I should have used to kilos a better reference
on doing shots. Because nothinggood happens once shots of
tequila start. Nothing. I'vetold all my guests. Absolutely
nothing. What happens oncetequila is involved? Nothing. I
don't care what you can do.
Unknown (32:08):
I make a crazy tasty Blackberry, jalapeno Margarita,
I make my own BlackBerryjalapenos, simple syrup, fresh
leaves, lime juice, tequila,orange sec. So good. So everyone
that I've served that too, hasbeen like this is alcohol free.
I'm like,
Kristen Daukas (32:24):
so So we're closing in on the end, believe
it or not, and you didn't thinklike I didn't think we could get
through all those questions. ButI've got one more than I think
it's I think it's appropriate toend with considering how we
started. What advice would yougive to someone who wants to be
more mindful about their alcoholconsumption?
Unknown (32:43):
That's an excellent question. And it really is
different for absolutely everyperson, right. So I have found
someone who could be a ragingalcoholic can just be like I'm
quitting. And they can pick upan alcohol free beer and be
fine. I've seen people who, youknow, we're having a drink or an
issue with alcohol, and theyjust stay away from it because
everything is a trigger. So forthe person that wants to be more
(33:03):
mindful, I would say talk tosomeone else about it. So that
accountability partner kind ofso you can check in be like, You
know what, we're not drinkingthis week eight and have that I
think accountability is key. Ifthat works for you, and you have
that agreement that it's nonjudgmental, it's just we will
often let ourselves down, but wewon't let other people down. So
having that little bit ofaccountability really works.
(33:26):
have something in mind that youwant to drink. So if you are
going somewhere, I don't havealcohol free, I have these cans
of wine, and I sell a lot ofthem at the bottle shop because
I'm like, if you're goingsomewhere, you can just pop one
in your bag, and you can justpull it out.
Kristen Daukas (33:42):
That's an idea.
That's a great tip.
Unknown (33:45):
It is easy, right? So you want to make it easy, you
want to make the choice simple,you want to think ahead and say,
I'm not drinking tonight, ifthey don't have an alcohol free
cocktail, I'm going to have x,right. So just be clear on how
you want to feel. I'm going togo into my coaching here, that
time and consistency piece, wevalue the present more than we
(34:08):
value the future. So we valuethe present, the reward is in
the moment we value the presentand that we get to be a part of
everything and we're feelingreally good. Ah, screw it, I'll
do it tomorrow, right? And be apart of everything that's going
on. But the cost is in thefuture. When you wake up the
next morning, you're like shit,I can't believe I just did that
again. Right? So when we canswitch that around and have sort
(34:28):
of the cost and the moment ofokay, I need to plan ahead. It
might be uncomfortable. But ifsomeone is asking me, I don't
need to answer right. So you'vegot to plan in mind who you need
to be in order to stand in yourground, stand in your
authenticity and be unapologeticin your choices. And when you do
that, it is your responsibilityto set those boundaries to be
(34:50):
clear, direct and respectful. Itis not your responsibility, how
it lands for the other person.
So if you just say I'm notdrinking and they ask why you
can just say Not drinking andthen you zip it, you don't get
into a conversation with them. Ipersonally would just look them
straight in the eye and juststand there, right? I want the
discomfort if you're if you havethe tenacity, to, why don't you
drink and what's wrong with you,I get to stand there and my
(35:14):
confidence, and everythingthat's going on is about them.
It's not about you. And that'swhat we get hooked by is, you
know, everybody's looking at me.
No, they're actually, you know,it's the other person. It's
making them uncomfortable.
Kristen Daukas (35:29):
It's and that's okay. That's okay. That's
Unknown (35:31):
what happens is we often we, especially as women
tend to we don't want the otheroh my gosh, the other person is
uncomfortable, you know. So thenyou enjoy, engage in the
conversation, leave it, let itland on the floor. And that is a
beautiful lesson for the otherperson. And or
Kristen Daukas (35:48):
I'm hoping that, like, we talked earlier, that
we're starting to get away fromthat a little bit as far as
being you know, people are like,okay, cool, whatever. But it's
like, why is it so important toyou know, why, why is my not
drinking so important to you,making
Unknown (36:03):
you so long, right? You know why? Because it highlights
more than likely, they know thatthey are in that gray area, or
they're drinking too much. Andit makes them uncomfortable, so
that when we can get the peoplearound us doing something that
we know is not healthy. I mean,it's toxic, it is toxic. I
don't, I don't go ranting andraving and preaching. I still
(36:24):
drink myself, I don't drink alot, but I still drink, right.
So I'm not like it's toxic. It'sbad. But you know, it's mindful
drinking. So if you've beendrinking a 12 pack a night and
you cut it back to six a night,that is mindful drinking, and
then you can cut it back tothree, and then you can cut it
back to one, right or maybe youstay at three. And that's where
you want to stay. When you canrelease the judgment, the
(36:46):
pressure, the guilt, the shame,it allows you to step into your
authentic self and be who youwant to be unapologetically.
Right? And if tubers and AI isgood for you. Good, then do it.
Right. But that judgment andthat shame on yourself is only
going to make you feel like shitand go back and go back into
drinking. Yeah, so do it in away that supports you to be
(37:08):
sustainable in it. Right?
Kristen Daukas (37:11):
It's like when somebody needs to go on a diet
and they go, I'm not eatinganything but chicken and rice.
I'm like, No, don't do thatyou're gonna fail, you're gonna
fail.
Unknown (37:23):
That's why I still drink. I haven't had a drink for
a month. But if I want to drink,I have learned to pause, you
know, it's five o'clock, I'mreally late because it's that
transition or whatever it is.
And like, you know, six o'clockrolls around, I still want it,
I'll have it right.
Kristen Daukas (37:37):
And it's it's scientifically proven that your
body it completely changes yourbody chemistry. And your body
knows that at five o'clock, it'stime let's go. And that's why
you something that's it's just,it's crazy how
Unknown (37:52):
it is more. Yeah, more habit than anything that you
believe. Yeah. So
Kristen Daukas (37:55):
this has been such a great conversation. I
really, really appreciate it.
And I am going to put everythingin the shownotes on how people
can find you. And once I get allof the stuff, I will send you
graphics to share it and sharewith everyone so much good
information. And such a you knowgreat positive spin on it not
really even a spin. It's justthere are going to be a lot of
(38:18):
people that learn a lot fromthis particular episode. So I
really appreciate you spendingtime with me. And until next
time, I will talk to you guyslater. As the saying goes, you
don't have to go home but youcan stay here and that's a wrap
for this week's episode. A bigthanks to my guests for sharing
their story and to you forlistening. Don't forget to share
(38:40):
the show with your friends andspread the words. And if you'd
like to be a guest on the show,the link is in the show notes
till next time cheers
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