May 9, 2025 • 59 mins
In this powerful episode of Conversations with Chanda, former Minneapolis Police Chief Medaria “Rondo” Arradondo joins Chanda Smith Baker for an unflinching and deeply personal conversation about leadership, justice, and the weight of public service. As the first Black police chief in Minneapolis, Chief Arradondo reflects on his decades-long career, the crisis of George Floyd’s murder, and the decisions that defined his legacy — including the extraordinary choice to testify against an officer in his own department.
Together, they explore the personal cost of doing what’s right, the limits of reform from within, and the role of moral clarity in moments of national reckoning. Drawing on their long-standing partnership in community, Chanda and Chief Rondo go beyond headlines to examine what it means to lead with humanity when everything is on the line.
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Souphak (00:00):
You're listening to Conversations with Chanda, where
leadership gets real andpersonal. This is where we cut
through the noise to confrontthe issues shaping our world.
From power and justice to theHeart of Community Change,
hosted by Chanda Smith Baker.
Chanda (00:19):
All right, Chief Rhondo, welcome to Conversations with
Chanda. I have been wanting tohave this conversation with you
for some time, and now it justfeels like very timely because
you have a book coming out and Iabsolutely cannot wait to read
it. Congratulations, sir, onthat.
Rondo (00:38):
Miss Chanda, thank you so much. And I'm probably doubly
happy to be here with you. Ihave known you for many years
and I just also want to justtake a moment to say thank you
for continuing to uplift ourcommunity and all the spaces
that you work in. I've been abig fan of yours for a long
time.
Chanda (00:56):
Thank you so much. So we know each other, but some of the
folks listening may not know youwhen I said Chief Rondo. How do
you introduce yourself? Rondo.You're Rondo.
Rondo (01:08):
I'm Rondo, Rondo, absolutely.
Chanda (01:11):
Yes. Awesome. And so let's just jump in a little bit
on the book. Like, why did youdecide to write the book now and
what is it that you hope peoplewill walk away from?
Rondo (01:24):
Yeah, that's a great question. So after the killing
of Mr. Floyd back in the summerof twenty twenty, as you can
probably imagine, I was focusedon really so much trying to get
our city and move our communitythrough such a very tenuous time
(01:46):
in our city's history, and quitefrankly, touched upon our
country, our nation's history.And so I wasn't in the right
mindset. But I had people thatcertainly cared about me, that
certainly were invested in whatoccurred from a historical
standpoint.
And it reached out to me saying,you know, Rondo, I think it'd be
really important for you tocapture from your lens, all that
(02:09):
the city had been going throughand the decisions you had to
make leading during that time.Quite honestly, it took me a
while just because I was not inthe right mindset in the first
couple of years after that. Butit wasn't until about a year and
a half ago that actually arelative of mine reached out to
me and said that there was acouple of people who he just
(02:31):
wanted me to meet. He said,there's no pressure. I know
you've been avoiding this forsome time.
And it was through a casualconversation and then through a
series of weekend calls, boththe folks live outside of
Minnesota. And that's how itdeveloped. It was over a period
of about a year and a half ofconversations. And that's
(02:52):
ultimately when I got to thepoint where I said, purely from
a historical accountingstandpoint, I felt it was
something that I owed ourchildren, our future
generations. And quite honestly,also thought that our elders, it
was required of me to make surethat, I spoke up about, the
(03:16):
events and how we got throughit.
I will also say, Miss Chanda, toyour listeners too, it's also a
part memoir. It's about me, myjourney being a product, a child
of Minneapolis and how importantfamily has been to me, how
important our elders have beento me. And also the
relationships that touch uponrelationships a great deal
(03:36):
throughout the book. So wasvery, very important to me to
put this down on paper.
Chanda (03:42):
Yeah, you know, I always have a set of questions and then
as soon as someone opens up, itopens up like a flood of
memories questions. And so thefirst thing came up for me is
that before the murder of GeorgeFloyd, there were other officer
involved incidents or deaths ormurders, depending on how you
(04:04):
want to define them. And one ofthem was Jamar Clark. And I
bring that up because there wasthis encampment outside of the
precinct. You were not thepolice chief at this particular
moment, but I remember you inthe streets.
It felt to me like a verydifferent stance than maybe some
(04:30):
of your colleagues in the force.And what felt like, it was the
first time that I think Iwitnessed what I would describe
as the tension or the, I don'tknow, what you held in your
body, right? Like I'm from thiscommunity and I'm part of this
force. And I felt like youwalked in both of those at the
(04:51):
same time and I could watch thepull, right? You're like, I'm
here with you and I have a job.
Like what was I observing thatin the right way?
Rondo (05:01):
Miss Chanda, you were absolutely observing that. And
it's interesting how certainevents have anniversary dates.
Jamar Clark was killed back onNovember fifteenth of twenty
fifteen. And I remember that asif it was if it was yesterday.
As a result of that, there wasand I mentioned this in the
(05:24):
book, obviously you talk aboutit was an eighteen day
occupation outside of the FourthPrecinct.
To our knowledge that has neverhappened anywhere else in the
country. Community was there foreighteen days, eighteen nights.
I was not chief of police at thetime. Was a deputy chief. And
yes, what you saw in menavigating that space was true.
(05:49):
Again, I'm a product ofMinneapolis. As a black man
growing up in this city, I wasschooled on our history. And,
that history is so veryimportant to know, just in
general about the city ofMinneapolis, but certainly I was
schooled on the history of, theculture and the place that I
worked for thirty two years inMinneapolis Police Department.
(06:10):
So and I also knew many of thepeople community who were out
there for those eighteen daysand nights and heard them,
listened to them, heard theirpain and experiences and also
having a role as leadershipwithin this organization, this
institution. So all of thatwhich you described was true.
(06:31):
And if you did not see that andobserve that, then I would have
felt bad. And probably my dearmother and father would have
probably been upset with mebecause we have to bring our
authentic self. It's tough asthat is in this day and age, but
it is so true. And again, I'mout there with by the way, I had
(06:51):
relatives out there. I had myniece showed up one night on
Tlymouth Avenue.
So I've got family out there aswell. And and they know me and
you have to be real in thosemoments. And so all of that,
which you're talking about,certainly was what I was
experiencing and haveexperienced throughout different
(07:12):
phases throughout my journeywithin the Minneapolis Police
Department.
Chanda (07:16):
Yeah, if I recall, you came into the force in 1989.
Rondo (07:21):
Yes.
Chanda (07:22):
And the way that the public perceived police
generally was in a verydifferent climate than what it
is today. And it doesn't meanthat all of historical things
didn't occur, but we weren't allaware of it in the same way that
community is now in terms of thechallenges in policing. Can you
(07:43):
just talk about like your earlydays? Like what even drew you to
this profession to begin with?
Rondo (07:50):
I grew up nine siblings in South Minneapolis. And for
some of you, I'm gonna datemyself here, Ms. Chanda, but
were at the Airdanders are kindof like the Black Walton's of
South Minneapolis. We had alarge family. So I'm sure some
of your listeners will probablyGoogling, get on Google.
Chanda (08:09):
Yeah, Good Night John Boy.
Rondo (08:10):
Exactly, exactly. But from an early age, my parents
instilled this sense of serviceinto all of their children. And
that sense of service, whetherit was helping our elderly
neighbors shovel their sidewalk,helping our siblings, our
younger siblings out with theirhomework, just giving back in
(08:33):
some way, shape or form. InMinneapolis, certainly as I was
growing up as a child, thereweren't that many and there's
still in terms of percentage,there still aren't that many
African Americans who serve onthe Minneapolis Police
Department. But there were a fewwho stood out that we knew from
our community and our experiencegrowing up that we recognize and
(08:53):
we look to.
They were our heroes in thecommunity. Whether it was the
late-
Chanda (08:57):
Officer Manning.
Rondo (08:59):
Yes, the late great officer Manning, Korean War vet,
just wonderful person. The lateofficer Riley Gilchrist. There
were so many others that whatthey did and how they showed up
in our community when it wasn'tjust because a problem arose,
but they were there. They werecoaching sports teams and all of
(09:22):
that. They were at North HighSchool as school resource
officers are at Roosevelt HighSchool popping in.
So we got to know them on apersonal level and that stood
out to me. And so that was veryimportant to me. And so that's
where I kind of gravitated to,you know, I think that there's a
role for me to play in thatprofession. And I will also say
(09:45):
it was conversations with eldersand family members, but who also
shared with me the history, ofthe institution I was about to
go into. So they didn't dissuademe, but they wanted me to be
very grounded in understandingthat history and the sacrifices
that were made on my behalf sothat I could, be engaged and be
(10:08):
involved and thrive within thatorganization.
Chanda (10:11):
And you came in and I would say it wasn't an easy
journey.
Rondo (10:19):
Oh no, it wasn't an easy journey in the sense, you first,
your opening comments, youtalked about seeing how I had to
navigate that space during thoseeighteen days and nights up at
the Fourth Precinct after JamarClark was killed. So that was
(10:43):
part of that understanding thatit was going to be a tough
journey. It was not going to beeasy. You know, when I was chief
of police, one of the fewportraits that I had in my
office right behind my desk wasa portrait of 16 Minneapolis
(11:03):
police officers circa 1898. Backof the portrait, there's eight
white officers, Minneapolispolice officers standing with
their English style bobby hatsand their star badges.
And then the eight seated in thefront, with the exception of the
far right corner, the only blackperson in that photograph, black
(11:25):
and white photograph. Thatperson on the far right was
Minneapolis Police Officer HenryG. Thompson. And that picture
was taken 1898. I kept thatportrait in my office throughout
my duration as chief.
Because at that time when HenryG. Thompson was serving on the
Minneapolis Police Department,he was not allowed to arrest
(11:47):
white people. He was basicallyassigned duties in a horse drawn
carriage to take usually men whowere at the pubs down by the
grain mills who after they got alittle bit intoxicated to jail.
He would not have been reallyallowed to even enter into City
Hall, and certainly probablynever walked into the office
(12:09):
that I ultimately occupied forfive and a half years. He served
thirty years within theMinneapolis Police Department.
The reason why I kept thatportrait was because I believe
that with all the challengeswith all of the trials and
tribulations that he wentthrough, I believe that he
(12:30):
dreamed that someday someone wholooked like him would be able to
occupy a leadership positionwithin that same organization.
And it also was just a simplereminder for me that Rondo, no
matter how bad of a day youthink you're having, look back,
look over your shoulder andremember those people like Henry
(12:50):
G. Thompson that really foughtso hard so that I could be in
the position I was. So I knewthat full well going into it.
Were there some things that,were new for me?
Absolutely. But part of when youfinally, feel that you've
arrived, it's a blessing thosechallenges that you did, because
(13:15):
you go through that, that'sgrowth. And for me, that's
always been about growth. And Ithink I also have an obligation
to make sure that I'm doing whatI can like Henry G. Thompson did
to make it better for the nextmen and women who are coming on
to that same journey as me.
Chanda (13:28):
Yeah, and one of the things that you did is that you
were part of a lawsuit againstthe department at some point of
your career, along with some ofyour fellow African American
officers. Can you share a littlebit about that? Because I've
actually always been reallycurious about it because there's
many people navigating the ismsor issues at work that are
(13:54):
trying to figure out how tonavigate them. So you both try
to hold accountable, this is myaccounting, and your willingness
was also to stay and helpimprove. You didn't leave.
So can you just say what and howyou navigated that?
Rondo (14:12):
When I came on, we understood that the historical
challenges that had occurred andthat were occurring within the
Minneapolis Police Department.And we were a generation of
black officers who truly lovedservice and felt that we could
(14:33):
contribute to a possiblesolution in the areas of hiring,
the areas of training, in theareas of promotion. We felt that
the system had been broken forquite some time. The system had
historically, and it's not toblame one administration. It was
just part of this 160 year oldinstitutions system dating back
(14:55):
to Henry G.
Thompson's days. There have beenincremental progress, but we
felt that it was time now thatwe could come together, identify
where these gaps are, wherethese inefficiencies are, where
these barriers quite franklyare. And we did our best to try
to have healthy discussions atthe time with those
(15:19):
administrations. And it got to apoint where we were not having
success with that. And so wefiled litigation against the
city.
But I will say through all ofthat, every single one of us,
the five who were involved inthat, there was never a question
about leaving. It was about thatwe're, on a very valid basis,
(15:43):
bringing these concerns and wewanna be a part of the solution.
And so that's prompted thelawsuit back in 02/2007.
Chanda (15:55):
So you now become sort of the dream and aspirations of
the officer in the 1800s. Youbecome the first black police
chief of the Minneapolis PoliceDepartment. What did that mean
to you personally?
Rondo (16:15):
Meant a couple of things to me. One, again, to know and
reflect back on the history ofour community, the fights and
struggles, to know whether itwas back from Henry G. Thompson
to understanding the role theMinneapolis Police Department
(16:36):
has played within our city. Tohave talked to our elders who,
remember the nights that,Plymouth Avenue went up in
flames back in the late 1960s.And to know that we got to a
point where it felt that we wereready to have me step into that
(16:59):
role.
So it was a very humblingexperience. But I will also say
that, the work just began atthat point, because there's also
with leadership, Mishanda, it'sa gift, but there's also a
weight to that. And so, but Iwas I felt absolutely ready and
(17:22):
prepared to take on that role. Ialso knew that the shelf life
for a major city chief is threeand a half years and that's if
everything goes good. So I alsocame into it knowing that, I'm
on some borrowed time here.
And so the things that I knewthat I needed to help change and
(17:44):
transform the culture of thatpolice department, I knew that I
just had a finite period of timeto try to do that. Yeah.
Chanda (17:53):
What pressures came with that?
Rondo (17:56):
Oh, where should I begin?
Chanda (17:59):
Know, I mean, that's a whole podcast. That's really not
a
Rondo (18:01):
fair question. No, no, no. It's valid question. So one
of the things I think for yourlisteners to understand is that
the police departments ingeneral are a paramilitary
organization. Everything downfrom the rank structure very
much models the military,sergeants, lieutenants,
captains, those types of things.
(18:23):
It is a very culture of commandand control. And all through my
journey within the MinneapolisPolice Department, every
promotion, my boss was alwayssomeone who was of a higher rank
within the police department.For the first time when I became
chief of police, my boss now isa civilian and he's a
(18:44):
politician, he's a mayor. Sothat in and of itself is very,
it's an interesting dynamic. Notall cities have the chief of
police reporting to a mayor.
A lot of them have city managersand non elected official. But I
say that because that was onethat was a dynamic that I had
not experienced at that timebefore. It's also when you think
(19:07):
about running an organization atthat time with about a thousand
members. And at that time toMinneapolis, of all the
different city departments, Ithink it's fair to say the
police department gets certainlythe most attention. And part of
(19:27):
that also is because you aregoing to interact and engage
with police in your communitymore so than you will probably
see the mayor on your street ora city council.
I mean, that's just been thenature of it. Police are being
asked to do a lot far more todaythan than ever before. And so
(19:47):
you've got an organization thatis actually touching people's
lives every single day, andunderstanding the impact of
that. And, so that's, there's apressure there to make sure that
you get it right. I've oftensaid that, most professions,
people will look at your body ofwork and judge you on that.
(20:09):
Pleasing is one of the fewprofessions where you mess up
one time, you're going to bejudged and really held to that.
So so you've got to get itright. Every encounter has to
mean something. So so there'sthose pressures. And by the way,
there's also pressures fromnaturally from within
communities going, Rhonda, wefinally got you up there.
Hey, now we want this, this,Exactly. Fix it all. So
Chanda (20:50):
and you were working on all these things and then the
murder of George Floyd happens.And I've heard you talk about
that night, one of the thingsthat were, if I'm taking away
like moments of the book, justbe like, y'all don't read the
But one of the things that Iknow community had been critical
(21:17):
about was the day of his murder.There was sort of a count that
came out that wasn't reflectiveof what actually happened. And
from my point of view, I'msitting here saying, this is
real time information. Ifsomeone gives you bad
information, you give out badinformation.
(21:38):
And then it feels to me like itwas corrected once the story
became more evident. But can youtalk to me about just the flow
of because I think oftentimeswe're like, that wasn't right.
But I know in leadership,sometimes it's real time and
people want information as soonas it happens. So what do we
need to understand about eitherthat moment or about how
(22:00):
communication flows? Like howquickly was that happening?
Can you offer a little bit ofcontext for us?
Rondo (22:07):
Yeah, that's a great question. So two of the biggest
challenges as a leader that youwill often experience, and
certainly I did, is time andcommunication. Time in the sense
that people on the inside of theorganization will say, Mishanda,
you are moving way too fast forus. And people on the outside
(22:30):
are going, you're at a snail'space, you're moving way too
slow. And time is something thatit will feel like it's bringing
you flowers, but it's animposter.
You don't have the time,especially in the midst of a
crisis that you think you do.And so when the crisis is
(22:53):
evolving, and you're gettingbits and pieces of information
in right away, you're trying todo your best discernment to pick
out what's factual and yetpeople and understandably so,
they need an update. They needan update and not just the
community, but you can imaginelocal, national, news media
(23:16):
outlets. We got to get our 06:00folks out there. We got to do an
update.
And so you're trying to be astransparent as possible. But as
you said, you're getting verylimited, at sometimes
unverifiable information andyou're doing your best to sort
through that and get that out.And I mentioned this in the book
(23:39):
that the initial information wereceived, which was not correct
ultimately, as we came to findout, was that, there was a
medical emergency, whichprompted, and ultimately caused,
his death. That obviously wasnot the case. And once that
information goes out, as youfully understand and your
(24:02):
listeners will, you wish youcould take it back, but you
can't.
You can't. And so then you haveto own it. Ultimately, as the
leader of the organization, Ihave to own that. And by the
way, it hurt many people. In themidst of a crisis, trust is your
currency.
(24:22):
Nothing else is going to be asvaluable as that. And trust me,
going through the events of thatsummer, I can tell you, trust is
the ultimate value of currency.And I will also say this to
leaders when I speak with folksboth in government and private
(24:42):
sector, build thoserelationships and allies in the
quiet moments. Do not wait forthe crisis. You will not be able
to accomplish that in thoserelationships.
So do it now. And so, even afterthat initial information came
out as a medical emergency,believe me, I had to meet folks.
(25:04):
I had to call folks and they hadto hear it from me. It's not
about me delegating now to otherfolks down the chain, they need
to hear it from me. And as aleader, you have to own that.
And so that's how that initialinformation came to be.
Chanda (25:20):
We talked about the identities that you hold. And so
when you find out that it wasn'tthe medical emergency, like I
have never had to do withanything like that, but I've
dealt with a lot. There anadditional pressure I put on
myself, particularly when I'mlooking at people I know, or
(25:41):
that look like me. And so whatwas going through your mind when
you found that out? Like was it,I don't know how I would have
reacted.
You all got me out there infront of my people telling them
what? Like, I mean, I don't knowwhat I would do, but like, you
know what? I don't even knowwhat to ask you, Rhonda, but
(26:03):
like, it's sort of like what wasgoing through your mind? Like
was it automatically like Igotta get to justice on this?
Was that immediate?
Rondo (26:15):
So a couple of things and it's a great question. And I
think you as a leader in yourlisteners will hopefully
understand this here. That 160year old institution, in many
ways, is like a family. When thebad thing happens, and it's
(26:40):
exposed to the world, a naturalreaction for institutions is to
rally, come in, be insular,isolate ourselves. And I knew
that history.
And so it was a reminder for meduring that time as a leader,
(27:05):
that Rondo, there are going tobe just natural reactions from
the culture of this institutionthat is going to resist. And
it's certainly going to resistand you're going to see it more
prevalent in moments of crisis.And our conversation today,
Miss Chanda, is so relevant aswe see other things shaping up
(27:26):
around the nation, institutions,leaders having to make some
tough calls and decisions. Butthat was a reminder for me that,
Rondo, not only do you have toseek the truth, but you also
have to understand that thereare going to be those even
within your own organization,your institution that are going
(27:48):
to resist it. And it may noteven be intentional, but it's
based on how that system and itshistory was set up.
And so that was one of thethings, that came to me. But I
also had the history and therelationships to know, they
ain't going to take a memo or anemail for me trying to explain
(28:09):
it. They've got to see my face.They've got to hear me. And it
can't happen again.
And so, I can't tell you howmany conversations and meetings,
Mishanda, I had in our churchesand parking lots, and literally
an activist's backyards on week.I mean, it was you, you have to
(28:32):
be out there front and centerleadership in general, but
certainly during the midst of acrisis. It has to be active
engagement, can't be passive. Ithas to be active engagement.
There's seven principles that myleadership, if you want to say
style for a better word, or justhow I run them.
The first is never abandon yourvalues throughout. Never abandon
(28:58):
your values. When we were in themidst of that crisis, I would
have officers and supervisors,you know, what's the plan?
What's the plan? What's theplan?
And that's going be also naturalreaction. People are going
through something that they'venever experienced before. And I
would say if you don't hear mesay anything else, go back to
your oath of office. If youstick back to your oath of
office, which is our corevalues, you're going to be
(29:20):
alright. So never abandon yourvalues.
Second is own what you say,right? We put out that medical
release. It was not accurate.That's on me. I got to own that.
Don't run away or deflect. I gotto own that. The third thing is
listen to all voices. I wasn'tjust me listening to the mayor
(29:42):
or city council members or mycommand staff. I'm meeting with
young activists.
I'm meeting with small Latinobusiness owners. I'm meeting
with faith leaders. You got tolisten to all voices. The other
thing is you have to act. Youhave to act quickly, honestly,
and decisively.
And when I say quickly, you haveto. You may make some mistakes,
(30:05):
especially in a crisis, but youhave to act. Time again, it's a
thief. You don't have the timethat you may think you do. Stay
consistent in your values iskey.
Constantly scan threats, bothexternal and internal. As I
mentioned, and I mentioned it inmy book, there were some things
that just the system itself wasnot going to make sure it got to
(30:27):
me. And the last of myprinciples is always lead with
hope. And I want you to know,Miss Chanda, for me, hope is not
a mood. It's a practice.
Chanda (30:41):
Every day, it's not passive.
Rondo (30:44):
It's not passive. It's a practice every single day.
You're out there, you'repracticing that hope every time
during that time when I got infront of a camera, I always
remembered our children arewatching what I'm saying every
word in which I'm saying. And sothat's what helped guide me. And
(31:04):
again, as I see our country andI see both, whether it's
corporate America, ouruniversity systems, I mean,
again, I get leadership isdifficult.
It's hard. It's not for thefaint of heart. But my number
one rule is never abandon yourvalues. Just never abandon your
values. The moment you do that,and the moment you compromise
(31:25):
your values, whether it's forpolitical or other types of
pressure, I've never seenanything good come from that.
Chanda (31:34):
I remember having a conversation or being in a
meeting with you during thisperiod of time. And I think I
even said like, yourorganization is in crisis And
you are literally everywhere.You're at the churches, I was in
some of those faithconversations, you're meeting
with the downtown folks, you'remeeting with the folks in the
(31:56):
neighborhood. How in the worlddo you have the capacity to both
manage the external challengesthat were happening and then
meet the demands of everybodywanted your time. Everybody
wanted your time.
Did you sleep?
Rondo (32:12):
No, no. I say this, looking back during that time,
you can't. Now when I, whenMayor Fry asked me to come on
and serve as his chief Januarytwenty eighteen. You know, I
(32:32):
accepted that again, the giftand the weight of that role and
the responsibility. But my bosswas never the mayor.
My boss was the 430,000residents of the city of
Minneapolis. And so I had to bethere for them. And no, I did
(32:58):
not sleep, during that time. AndI'm someone who believes, in
wellness and self care, but I'mjust being honest, that had to
be compromised, because not onlydid I need to get our city
through this, but you canimagine the calls that I
(33:20):
received from Chiefs of Policeall over the country, who were
saying, you know, there was noblueprint at all for what we
experienced. Unprecedented.
It was the most singlesignificant police civilian
incident in modern Americanhistory. Nothing compares to it.
(33:41):
Every 50 states had protests ordemonstrations, and over 60
countries had global protestsand demos. So there was nothing
that we ever experienced. I wishthere was a in case of
emergency, Rhonda, break glass.
I think, okay, there was none ofthat. And so at the same time,
you fall back to your elders,you fall back to those other
(34:04):
voices. I mentioned in the bookabout unconventional allies. The
book is going to probablyshatter a lot of assumptions
that people may have aboutpolice, activists, and just
specifically for Minneapolis,some of the ordinary people that
stepped up and did someextraordinary things to get our
(34:25):
city through again. And by theway, I should also mention, I'm
sure your listeners knows wewere going through a pandemic,
which we had not everexperienced in over one hundred
years.
I don't think people forget thatthat was also this is before
vaccine talks were talkingabout. This is so we have that
going on. By the way, we werealso experiencing a significant
(34:47):
increase in violent crime. Itwas during those times. I mean,
you probably remember and yourlisteners do three precious
angels of ours under the age of10 were shot in Minneapolis.
I remember at North Memorialpraying by the bedside of our
young precious angel Trinity.And so all of these things, so
(35:09):
you have to be there. There wasno time for sleep. And my number
one goal became, quite frankly,Mishanda, was no more funerals.
Our city was so tense.
It was the epicenter of so muchangst, frustration, anger,
(35:32):
uncertainty, instability. Andso, I just had to make sure that
we got through and I had to justlead with whatever bit of sinew
and breath and oxygen that Icould to do my part.
Chanda (35:48):
Well, I remember, I think this might even went viral
or maybe I just saw it, but yougot into an exchange with one of
our city council members and youwere a little testy if I recall.
And I remember watching it and Iwas like, I'm just tired. I'm
(36:09):
like, he's always so even, he'salways positive. If there's
anybody that can take the heatout turning it up is you, I
Rondo (36:18):
witnessed it over
Chanda (36:19):
and over again and you turn it up a little bit. Know.
And he's tired. Yeah.
Rondo (36:29):
I know, that my dear mother is watching always. And
so I gotta remember to berespectful and be nice. But I'm
sure at that moment thatprobably came out a little bit.
And so, yeah.
Chanda (36:48):
I remember saying, I'm like, oh, my first thought, I
didn't even have to listen to
Rondo (36:51):
the words. I'm like, he's tired. Absolutely. Absolutely.
Yeah.
Chanda (36:57):
Tired. Rhonda, what did you learn about your leadership
in that moment? Like, as youlook back, like what did you
learn about yourself? Like, wasit your ability to withstand
those pressures? Was it anability to, like if your values
were ever tested, they weretested during that time.
Rondo (37:19):
Yeah, so one of the things I learned, and I know
you'll probably appreciate thisand your listeners, is those
small simple things that ourparents teach us at a young age.
(37:44):
And I mean this like clean yourbedroom. Say yes, say thank you.
Say smile when you greet people.Try not to take things too
personally.
(38:07):
Attitude is everything. Thosethings that seem so small back
then. Now that I look at it, itwas preparing me and almost miss
Chanda, this, my parents wereproviding this suit of armor to
help me for when I might have toface a storm or crisis. And so
(38:34):
that was one of the things thatI looked back on was how much
those conversations and thoselessons in life that my parents
gave me that I might have eventhought, they don't know
Chanda (38:47):
what they're talking about, what
Rondo (38:48):
have you, but how much that stayed with me and how much
it helped me. The other thingthat I learned early on, and I
mentioned this in the book,there's a chapter that's
entitled When 32 Becomes 36.Building those allies and
building those relationshipsearly on. And it's not about
(39:10):
there's no community that'smonolithic. It's building those
allies and those relationships.
And even if you disagree, keepan open heart, keep an open ear,
because you never know whenyou're going to need them and
ask for help. And so that wasvery important for me. And also
(39:33):
just seeing my own resilience,that just being able to, and my
limits as well. That wassomething that I because there
were spaces that I was not theright messenger. And so it's
(39:54):
putting aside your ego, beinghumble and being a humility is
so critically important, thinkin leadership.
And so being able to say, youknow what, I can't go the next
lap. Miss Chanda, I got to giveyou the baton and take off. And
so those were things that Iwould say. But I will also I'll
(40:16):
say this, hope. I can't tell youhow there was never a day and as
bad as it got during that time,I knew we as a city, we were
going to come through this.
There was never a doubt in mymind. Even in the darkest
moments, I knew we were gonnaget through this as a city.
Chanda (40:37):
You made immediate decision once you found out what
occurred to fire the officersand take action. And I imagine
that that did not go well foreveryone that was in the rank
and file. Your book is titledJustice for George Floyd, right?
Rondo (41:01):
Yes.
Chanda (41:02):
Securing Justice for the Murder of George Floyd. You
acted that way from thebeginning. And what that leads
me to is questions aroundaccountability. And from your
point of view, what like,because you've talked about the
history from the 1800s, you'vetalked about sort of the lack of
(41:23):
diversity, the challenges, yousued a department that you
ultimately began to lead. Andembedded in all of that is the
entrenched ways of protectingand all the things that you
said.
And so we understand that you'recoming up against a lot of
factors here, but what doesaccountability and policing look
(41:45):
like for you? Because you reallydemonstrated that, but what does
that look like? What can youshare with us?
Rondo (41:52):
I did not have to see, and I mentioned this in the book
as well, but when I saw thevideo, in the early morning
hours of May 25, early morninghours actually of May 26, I did
(42:13):
not have to see a ton ofinvestigations of, you know, my
eyes did not lie to me. And so,when I came into office as
chief, one of the first things Idid, back in 2017 was I sent
(42:37):
out, I called it, the Chief'svision statement for the MPD. It
was going to be our new pathwaymoving forward. Every single
employee sworn and civilianreceived that. The importance of
that was two things.
One, not every there's no way Iwas going to get to know every
single, employee of theMinneapolis Police Department,
(43:01):
but they needed to know what myexpectations were for them and
what they could expect of me.The first part of that vision
statement, I mentioned veryexplicitly about the sanctity of
life. The officers need to gohome at the end of the day, but
our community does as well. Andso that sanctity of life is our
(43:26):
bedrock. That's part of thevalue, the values that I talk
about.
And so, that was violated. Italk strongly about humanity.
And by the way, humanity has tobe embedded within our policies
as leaders. After George Floydwas killed, one of the things
(43:54):
that I did was I changed our 160year old basically, oath of
office. And it was acollaborative process with
community NAACP and MinneapolisUrban League.
And Mishanda, do you know whatthe most radical word in our new
oath of office was? Love. Love,and a love of service. We talk
(44:20):
about the human family in thatnew oath of office. We talk
about officers, if they'rewitnessing someone's rights
being violated, they have a dutyto intervene both protests
verbally and physically if theyhave to, even against if it's
someone who's wearing the sameuniform that they are.
(44:43):
It's not about just leading withauthority, but leading with
humanity. And so when I tookthat decision to terminate the
employment of those four formerofficers, that was based again
on our values. That was basedagain on what our ethics were.
(45:07):
And it was also based on thatvision and that sanctity of
life. And so yes, there arecertainly and there certainly
were those who within theorganization that did not like
that.
But as a leader, you fight fortruth, even if it means you
(45:28):
stand alone. You fight fortruth, even if it means you
stand alone. And being a leaderisn't about holding on to power.
It's about holding people. Andso that is why I made the
decision I did.
I stand by that decision. Andso, I wanted to make sure that
(45:55):
when I left and made thedecision to leave, I didn't
leave with regret. I left withmy integrity. And so I feel
strongly about them.
Chanda (46:04):
How much reform have you seen? Right? Like sometimes it
feels like it stands still andyou mentioned earlier, one
incident is what community sees.You see it, that's changed. It
seems to me like obviously evenin the counting of the history
that you talked about from HenryG.
Thompson, There's a lot that haschanged from his point to your
(46:26):
point. Are there reformshappening that you think are
just moving in the rightdirection that you would want to
mention that you think areimportant levers to additional
sort of community policing andthe type of experience and
relationship that communityought to have with our police
departments?
Rondo (46:47):
Yeah, so a couple of things that I see in terms of
transformation, in progress,which I have seen I've I've
stepped aside from theprofession that are good is I
think you are starting to see,you know, when I made the
decision to terminate theemployment of those four former
officers, that wasunprecedented. A sitting chief
(47:08):
to do that in a criminal murderthat just that that did happen
before. However, you arestarting to see more chiefs of
police across this nation andsheriffs who are taking quick,
decisive, transparent employmentdecisions and disciplined
decisions right away that youhad never seen before. You're
(47:30):
also starting to see unions stepup and and also realize that,
which I've often said, the mostimportant contract that a police
officer has isn't with theunion. It's the contract and
promise they have with thepeople that are paying their
salaries that they've taken anoath to protect and serve.
So you're seeing that. We'reseeing technology now being
(47:55):
utilized in police departmentsacross the country that we had
never seen before. We obviouslybody cameras has been so
important. Different types oftechnology has been great. We're
seeing police and chiefs ofpolice and sheriffs using data
to tell our community story,which is now starting to really
engage in informative trustbased dialogue.
(48:18):
You know, don't just tell mesomething. I want to see the
data. So we're starting to seethat. But I will also say that
all of that pales in comparisonto police chiefs and sheriffs
hiring people with character.None of those other things can
(48:39):
replace having people who wantto serve their communities and
they have character because it'sthose individuals who will live
up to and aspire to make surethat those values are not
abandoned and never abandoned.
So again, there's progressalong. There's a lot of work,
(49:01):
more work to do. Sadly, evenafter Mr. Floyd was killed, we
saw the tragedy with Mr. TyreeNichols in Memphis.
I commend Chief Sarah Lynn Davisdown there. She took swift
action. I mean, we're startingto again, we're starting to see
accountability and what thatlooks like, and not being drawn
(49:23):
into this culture silence. And,you know, we're gonna wait to
see all of these things play outbefore we, you know, leaders are
stepping up and communities arestarting to see that more, but
still more work to do.
Chanda (49:36):
Yeah, you know, I didn't mention, so your father, you
have a son.
Rondo (49:42):
Oh yes, yes, yes.
Chanda (49:43):
And you have a daughter.
Rondo (49:45):
Yes.
Chanda (49:45):
I'm gonna go to the son for a second. What was that like
parenting during that period oftime? Was he like, I mean, there
tension, was there support? Haveyou had to give the talk? All of
the things that come withparenting, how was that
navigating that?
Rondo (50:08):
So he was a young adult during that time, but I actually
in my book again, I mentionedabout the talk because that is
real. I mentioned that as well.But during that specific time,
he's trying to as a young adult,he's trying to process all of
this as well. And as I talkedabout, there wasn't a whole lot
(50:31):
of sleep. I would check-in withboth of them, son and daughter
to make sure they're doing okay.
As any parent you want to shieldyour children from, all those
things, I received, you could,all those things, but they
(50:52):
didn't sign up for that. And soyou always are going to be more
protective of your children. Butthey managed it. They are smart
individuals and smarter thantheir dad. But they manage, they
process, they also listen todiffering voices as well.
(51:17):
They also had an advantagebecause they also, they knew a
lot about history through me.And, so but they did well, if
anything, I had to tell them,don't worry about me. I'm
getting my share of peanut M andM's every day as my daily diet
routine while I'm out hereworking.
Chanda (51:40):
I saw them at your retirement event. I think one of
them spoke, can't remember. AndI was just a mess. I needed all
kinds of tissue.
Rondo (51:56):
Well, know you are a very caring and loving mother
yourself and yeah, we get veryproud of our children. And so,
and it is true just as for you.I can only imagine some of the
things that you had to miss justbecause of your role in your
space, whether you're flying outof town and you can't be back
(52:17):
for this or you're going to missthis special event or holiday or
just yeah. And so again, theydidn't sign up for it, but
they're along the journey withus. And so you it's yeah, we're
blessed that at one point intime I tried to just how do you
(52:38):
make up for lost time?
You can't, but you just try yourbest and they pretty much said,
dad, it's okay, we got you.
Chanda (52:46):
And they were to us. Made pride and I always have to
mention it because oftentimeswhen we're in these moments and
people are leading, it issometimes invisible that we
still are parents, we still havework, we still have
accountabilities. And I thinkit's just important to mention
(53:08):
that you were parenting andmanaging these young adults in
the moment. As we get ready towrap, I wanna ask you, what is
giving you hope right now?
Rondo (53:19):
What's giving me hope right now is I'm seeing leaders
step up into their roles andholding on to their values, even
at great cost to their titles,to their salaries. They're
(53:44):
holding the line when everythingelse says retreat, they're
rising. And that is giving mehope. So that I see that. And
that's critically important.
The other thing that I see isyoung people. One of the things
(54:06):
that was so very helpful duringmy time as chief was being able
to be in spaces where we havesuch magnificent, intelligent
young voices out there that wantto make a better tomorrow. And
we have to support them in that.And they're all around us, by
(54:28):
the way. And I just give a plugto your son who's doing great
things over at V3 Sports.
But we have to make sure that wesupport them. So that gets me
whole. But I'll just say lastly,the last chapter of my book,
it's a personal letter to GiannaFloyd, Mr. Floyd's daughter. And
(54:51):
so, I owe her a brighter future.
And I think we all have anobligation, a brighter future,
with hope for our children. So Iremain hopeful. And again, hope
to me, it's not a mood, it's apractice. So I'll continue to
(55:11):
practice that.
Chanda (55:13):
Man, so what you just said, I'm like, I can feel the
emotion coming up. The book,Securing Justice for the Murder
of George Floyd, it is beingreleased in May.
Rondo (55:25):
It's in May, May thirteenth. It'll be officially
released. You can find it allthe traditional large bookstore
sites, Beetle and Amazon. Theothers also are independent
bookstores around the country.And again, I want to say it is a
story of hope and particularlyfor people who were in
(55:49):
Minneapolis or in the state OfMinnesota.
I think there will be someinteresting information they had
not known before. I think itwill give you a view and glimpse
of why I made the decisions Imade. And it'll also probably
again, surprise and shatter someassumptions that people have,
but in the end, it is a book ofhope. So thank you for allowing
me the opportunity to share aconversation with you and your
(56:11):
listeners, Ms. Chanda
Chanda (56:13):
Yeah, thank you for being here. Thank you for your
willingness to put your storyand your leadership on paper. I
agree with your family member.I'm thankful that they pushed
you. I cannot wait to read it.
I would encourage everyone to goout and get it because we should
be supportive. There are manythings that we need to learn
(56:35):
from. And in this moment in ourhistory, as challenged as it
was, it seems incrediblyimportant for us to really have
sort of the look back, a lens ofwhat it meant to lead during
that time. And so I just reallywant to thank you for doing
that. And I will be back intouch with you for sure after I
(56:57):
read it.
So thank you, Rondo, for beingon Conversation. Thank
Rondo (57:01):
Thank you. So can I share one little funny note with your
viewers? You know what this isgonna be. So as I'm wrapping up
my tenure as chief, I wanted topersonally reach out to, leaders
in the community who had been sohelpful and supportive for me
over the years. And so one ofthem, to your listeners was Ms.
Chanda And so I've been tryingto get in touch with you. I know
(57:23):
you are very busy. And soeventually I was able to get
ahold of you because I had abeautiful plaque that I wanted
to present you. Well, to yourlisteners, Miss Chanda happened
to be getting her hair did at asalon.
At the salon. And I said, well,got something for you. And she
(57:44):
says, well, I'm getting my hair.I said, come on outside. So she
I don't know what was in yourhair, but you came out to the
street.
I'm giving you this, I'm givingyou this sort of proclamation of
this award and you're like, youbetter not have any pictures
posted of me with my hair likethis here. But,
Chanda (58:02):
my hair wrapped, all the women from the salon came out,
I've got on a cape. I'm sittingon this busy street and you
didn't just hand it to me. Youhad words.
Rondo (58:14):
Absolutely. So I will remember that as well.
Chanda (58:18):
So, well, it was a stressful moment. I appreciate
you, sir.
Rondo (58:21):
This has been so wonderful. I can't tell you
again, just knowing you over thetime and the years that I have,
you've been so such a joy and ablessing and we're better. We're
better as a city and a communityfor having than not having you
truly.
Chanda (58:38):
Thank you.
Souphak (58:40):
If you'd like to explore more content and join
our community, find us atconversationswithchanda.com. We
have a wonderful collection ofepisodes featuring notable
guests that you can enjoy onYouTube or wherever you get your
podcast. And I also invite youto follow our journey and add us
on Instagram at Conversationswith Chanda. Until next time.
You're listening to Conversations with Chanda, where
leadership gets real andpersonal. This is where we cut
through the noise to confrontthe issues shaping our world.
From power and justice to theHeart of Community Change,
hosted by Chanda Smith Baker.
Chanda (00:19):
All right, Chief Rhondo, welcome to Conversations with
Chanda. I have been wanting tohave this conversation with you
for some time, and now it justfeels like very timely because
you have a book coming out and Iabsolutely cannot wait to read
it. Congratulations, sir, onthat.
Rondo (00:38):
Miss Chanda, thank you so much. And I'm probably doubly
happy to be here with you. Ihave known you for many years
and I just also want to justtake a moment to say thank you
for continuing to uplift ourcommunity and all the spaces
that you work in. I've been abig fan of yours for a long
time.
Chanda (00:56):
Thank you so much. So we know each other, but some of the
folks listening may not know youwhen I said Chief Rondo. How do
you introduce yourself? Rondo.You're Rondo.
Rondo (01:08):
I'm Rondo, Rondo, absolutely.
Chanda (01:11):
Yes. Awesome. And so let's just jump in a little bit
on the book. Like, why did youdecide to write the book now and
what is it that you hope peoplewill walk away from?
Rondo (01:24):
Yeah, that's a great question. So after the killing
of Mr. Floyd back in the summerof twenty twenty, as you can
probably imagine, I was focusedon really so much trying to get
our city and move our communitythrough such a very tenuous time
(01:46):
in our city's history, and quitefrankly, touched upon our
country, our nation's history.And so I wasn't in the right
mindset. But I had people thatcertainly cared about me, that
certainly were invested in whatoccurred from a historical
standpoint.
And it reached out to me saying,you know, Rondo, I think it'd be
really important for you tocapture from your lens, all that
(02:09):
the city had been going throughand the decisions you had to
make leading during that time.Quite honestly, it took me a
while just because I was not inthe right mindset in the first
couple of years after that. Butit wasn't until about a year and
a half ago that actually arelative of mine reached out to
me and said that there was acouple of people who he just
(02:31):
wanted me to meet. He said,there's no pressure. I know
you've been avoiding this forsome time.
And it was through a casualconversation and then through a
series of weekend calls, boththe folks live outside of
Minnesota. And that's how itdeveloped. It was over a period
of about a year and a half ofconversations. And that's
(02:52):
ultimately when I got to thepoint where I said, purely from
a historical accountingstandpoint, I felt it was
something that I owed ourchildren, our future
generations. And quite honestly,also thought that our elders, it
was required of me to make surethat, I spoke up about, the
(03:16):
events and how we got throughit.
I will also say, Miss Chanda, toyour listeners too, it's also a
part memoir. It's about me, myjourney being a product, a child
of Minneapolis and how importantfamily has been to me, how
important our elders have beento me. And also the
relationships that touch uponrelationships a great deal
(03:36):
throughout the book. So wasvery, very important to me to
put this down on paper.
Chanda (03:42):
Yeah, you know, I always have a set of questions and then
as soon as someone opens up, itopens up like a flood of
memories questions. And so thefirst thing came up for me is
that before the murder of GeorgeFloyd, there were other officer
involved incidents or deaths ormurders, depending on how you
(04:04):
want to define them. And one ofthem was Jamar Clark. And I
bring that up because there wasthis encampment outside of the
precinct. You were not thepolice chief at this particular
moment, but I remember you inthe streets.
It felt to me like a verydifferent stance than maybe some
(04:30):
of your colleagues in the force.And what felt like, it was the
first time that I think Iwitnessed what I would describe
as the tension or the, I don'tknow, what you held in your
body, right? Like I'm from thiscommunity and I'm part of this
force. And I felt like youwalked in both of those at the
(04:51):
same time and I could watch thepull, right? You're like, I'm
here with you and I have a job.
Like what was I observing thatin the right way?
Rondo (05:01):
Miss Chanda, you were absolutely observing that. And
it's interesting how certainevents have anniversary dates.
Jamar Clark was killed back onNovember fifteenth of twenty
fifteen. And I remember that asif it was if it was yesterday.
As a result of that, there wasand I mentioned this in the
(05:24):
book, obviously you talk aboutit was an eighteen day
occupation outside of the FourthPrecinct.
To our knowledge that has neverhappened anywhere else in the
country. Community was there foreighteen days, eighteen nights.
I was not chief of police at thetime. Was a deputy chief. And
yes, what you saw in menavigating that space was true.
(05:49):
Again, I'm a product ofMinneapolis. As a black man
growing up in this city, I wasschooled on our history. And,
that history is so veryimportant to know, just in
general about the city ofMinneapolis, but certainly I was
schooled on the history of, theculture and the place that I
worked for thirty two years inMinneapolis Police Department.
(06:10):
So and I also knew many of thepeople community who were out
there for those eighteen daysand nights and heard them,
listened to them, heard theirpain and experiences and also
having a role as leadershipwithin this organization, this
institution. So all of thatwhich you described was true.
(06:31):
And if you did not see that andobserve that, then I would have
felt bad. And probably my dearmother and father would have
probably been upset with mebecause we have to bring our
authentic self. It's tough asthat is in this day and age, but
it is so true. And again, I'mout there with by the way, I had
(06:51):
relatives out there. I had myniece showed up one night on
Tlymouth Avenue.
So I've got family out there aswell. And and they know me and
you have to be real in thosemoments. And so all of that,
which you're talking about,certainly was what I was
experiencing and haveexperienced throughout different
(07:12):
phases throughout my journeywithin the Minneapolis Police
Department.
Chanda (07:16):
Yeah, if I recall, you came into the force in 1989.
Rondo (07:21):
Yes.
Chanda (07:22):
And the way that the public perceived police
generally was in a verydifferent climate than what it
is today. And it doesn't meanthat all of historical things
didn't occur, but we weren't allaware of it in the same way that
community is now in terms of thechallenges in policing. Can you
(07:43):
just talk about like your earlydays? Like what even drew you to
this profession to begin with?
Rondo (07:50):
I grew up nine siblings in South Minneapolis. And for
some of you, I'm gonna datemyself here, Ms. Chanda, but
were at the Airdanders are kindof like the Black Walton's of
South Minneapolis. We had alarge family. So I'm sure some
of your listeners will probablyGoogling, get on Google.
Chanda (08:09):
Yeah, Good Night John Boy.
Rondo (08:10):
Exactly, exactly. But from an early age, my parents
instilled this sense of serviceinto all of their children. And
that sense of service, whetherit was helping our elderly
neighbors shovel their sidewalk,helping our siblings, our
younger siblings out with theirhomework, just giving back in
(08:33):
some way, shape or form. InMinneapolis, certainly as I was
growing up as a child, thereweren't that many and there's
still in terms of percentage,there still aren't that many
African Americans who serve onthe Minneapolis Police
Department. But there were a fewwho stood out that we knew from
our community and our experiencegrowing up that we recognize and
(08:53):
we look to.
They were our heroes in thecommunity. Whether it was the
late-
Chanda (08:57):
Officer Manning.
Rondo (08:59):
Yes, the late great officer Manning, Korean War vet,
just wonderful person. The lateofficer Riley Gilchrist. There
were so many others that whatthey did and how they showed up
in our community when it wasn'tjust because a problem arose,
but they were there. They werecoaching sports teams and all of
(09:22):
that. They were at North HighSchool as school resource
officers are at Roosevelt HighSchool popping in.
So we got to know them on apersonal level and that stood
out to me. And so that was veryimportant to me. And so that's
where I kind of gravitated to,you know, I think that there's a
role for me to play in thatprofession. And I will also say
(09:45):
it was conversations with eldersand family members, but who also
shared with me the history, ofthe institution I was about to
go into. So they didn't dissuademe, but they wanted me to be
very grounded in understandingthat history and the sacrifices
that were made on my behalf sothat I could, be engaged and be
(10:08):
involved and thrive within thatorganization.
Chanda (10:11):
And you came in and I would say it wasn't an easy
journey.
Rondo (10:19):
Oh no, it wasn't an easy journey in the sense, you first,
your opening comments, youtalked about seeing how I had to
navigate that space during thoseeighteen days and nights up at
the Fourth Precinct after JamarClark was killed. So that was
(10:43):
part of that understanding thatit was going to be a tough
journey. It was not going to beeasy. You know, when I was chief
of police, one of the fewportraits that I had in my
office right behind my desk wasa portrait of 16 Minneapolis
(11:03):
police officers circa 1898. Backof the portrait, there's eight
white officers, Minneapolispolice officers standing with
their English style bobby hatsand their star badges.
And then the eight seated in thefront, with the exception of the
far right corner, the only blackperson in that photograph, black
(11:25):
and white photograph. Thatperson on the far right was
Minneapolis Police Officer HenryG. Thompson. And that picture
was taken 1898. I kept thatportrait in my office throughout
my duration as chief.
Because at that time when HenryG. Thompson was serving on the
Minneapolis Police Department,he was not allowed to arrest
(11:47):
white people. He was basicallyassigned duties in a horse drawn
carriage to take usually men whowere at the pubs down by the
grain mills who after they got alittle bit intoxicated to jail.
He would not have been reallyallowed to even enter into City
Hall, and certainly probablynever walked into the office
(12:09):
that I ultimately occupied forfive and a half years. He served
thirty years within theMinneapolis Police Department.
The reason why I kept thatportrait was because I believe
that with all the challengeswith all of the trials and
tribulations that he wentthrough, I believe that he
(12:30):
dreamed that someday someone wholooked like him would be able to
occupy a leadership positionwithin that same organization.
And it also was just a simplereminder for me that Rondo, no
matter how bad of a day youthink you're having, look back,
look over your shoulder andremember those people like Henry
(12:50):
G. Thompson that really foughtso hard so that I could be in
the position I was. So I knewthat full well going into it.
Were there some things that,were new for me?
Absolutely. But part of when youfinally, feel that you've
arrived, it's a blessing thosechallenges that you did, because
(13:15):
you go through that, that'sgrowth. And for me, that's
always been about growth. And Ithink I also have an obligation
to make sure that I'm doing whatI can like Henry G. Thompson did
to make it better for the nextmen and women who are coming on
to that same journey as me.
Chanda (13:28):
Yeah, and one of the things that you did is that you
were part of a lawsuit againstthe department at some point of
your career, along with some ofyour fellow African American
officers. Can you share a littlebit about that? Because I've
actually always been reallycurious about it because there's
many people navigating the ismsor issues at work that are
(13:54):
trying to figure out how tonavigate them. So you both try
to hold accountable, this is myaccounting, and your willingness
was also to stay and helpimprove. You didn't leave.
So can you just say what and howyou navigated that?
Rondo (14:12):
When I came on, we understood that the historical
challenges that had occurred andthat were occurring within the
Minneapolis Police Department.And we were a generation of
black officers who truly lovedservice and felt that we could
(14:33):
contribute to a possiblesolution in the areas of hiring,
the areas of training, in theareas of promotion. We felt that
the system had been broken forquite some time. The system had
historically, and it's not toblame one administration. It was
just part of this 160 year oldinstitutions system dating back
(14:55):
to Henry G.
Thompson's days. There have beenincremental progress, but we
felt that it was time now thatwe could come together, identify
where these gaps are, wherethese inefficiencies are, where
these barriers quite franklyare. And we did our best to try
to have healthy discussions atthe time with those
(15:19):
administrations. And it got to apoint where we were not having
success with that. And so wefiled litigation against the
city.
But I will say through all ofthat, every single one of us,
the five who were involved inthat, there was never a question
about leaving. It was about thatwe're, on a very valid basis,
(15:43):
bringing these concerns and wewanna be a part of the solution.
And so that's prompted thelawsuit back in 02/2007.
Chanda (15:55):
So you now become sort of the dream and aspirations of
the officer in the 1800s. Youbecome the first black police
chief of the Minneapolis PoliceDepartment. What did that mean
to you personally?
Rondo (16:15):
Meant a couple of things to me. One, again, to know and
reflect back on the history ofour community, the fights and
struggles, to know whether itwas back from Henry G. Thompson
to understanding the role theMinneapolis Police Department
(16:36):
has played within our city. Tohave talked to our elders who,
remember the nights that,Plymouth Avenue went up in
flames back in the late 1960s.And to know that we got to a
point where it felt that we wereready to have me step into that
(16:59):
role.
So it was a very humblingexperience. But I will also say
that, the work just began atthat point, because there's also
with leadership, Mishanda, it'sa gift, but there's also a
weight to that. And so, but Iwas I felt absolutely ready and
(17:22):
prepared to take on that role. Ialso knew that the shelf life
for a major city chief is threeand a half years and that's if
everything goes good. So I alsocame into it knowing that, I'm
on some borrowed time here.
And so the things that I knewthat I needed to help change and
(17:44):
transform the culture of thatpolice department, I knew that I
just had a finite period of timeto try to do that. Yeah.
Chanda (17:53):
What pressures came with that?
Rondo (17:56):
Oh, where should I begin?
Chanda (17:59):
Know, I mean, that's a whole podcast. That's really not
a
Rondo (18:01):
fair question. No, no, no. It's valid question. So one
of the things I think for yourlisteners to understand is that
the police departments ingeneral are a paramilitary
organization. Everything downfrom the rank structure very
much models the military,sergeants, lieutenants,
captains, those types of things.
(18:23):
It is a very culture of commandand control. And all through my
journey within the MinneapolisPolice Department, every
promotion, my boss was alwayssomeone who was of a higher rank
within the police department.For the first time when I became
chief of police, my boss now isa civilian and he's a
(18:44):
politician, he's a mayor. Sothat in and of itself is very,
it's an interesting dynamic. Notall cities have the chief of
police reporting to a mayor.
A lot of them have city managersand non elected official. But I
say that because that was onethat was a dynamic that I had
not experienced at that timebefore. It's also when you think
(19:07):
about running an organization atthat time with about a thousand
members. And at that time toMinneapolis, of all the
different city departments, Ithink it's fair to say the
police department gets certainlythe most attention. And part of
(19:27):
that also is because you aregoing to interact and engage
with police in your communitymore so than you will probably
see the mayor on your street ora city council.
I mean, that's just been thenature of it. Police are being
asked to do a lot far more todaythan than ever before. And so
(19:47):
you've got an organization thatis actually touching people's
lives every single day, andunderstanding the impact of
that. And, so that's, there's apressure there to make sure that
you get it right. I've oftensaid that, most professions,
people will look at your body ofwork and judge you on that.
(20:09):
Pleasing is one of the fewprofessions where you mess up
one time, you're going to bejudged and really held to that.
So so you've got to get itright. Every encounter has to
mean something. So so there'sthose pressures. And by the way,
there's also pressures fromnaturally from within
communities going, Rhonda, wefinally got you up there.
Hey, now we want this, this,Exactly. Fix it all. So
Chanda (20:50):
and you were working on all these things and then the
murder of George Floyd happens.And I've heard you talk about
that night, one of the thingsthat were, if I'm taking away
like moments of the book, justbe like, y'all don't read the
But one of the things that Iknow community had been critical
(21:17):
about was the day of his murder.There was sort of a count that
came out that wasn't reflectiveof what actually happened. And
from my point of view, I'msitting here saying, this is
real time information. Ifsomeone gives you bad
information, you give out badinformation.
(21:38):
And then it feels to me like itwas corrected once the story
became more evident. But can youtalk to me about just the flow
of because I think oftentimeswe're like, that wasn't right.
But I know in leadership,sometimes it's real time and
people want information as soonas it happens. So what do we
need to understand about eitherthat moment or about how
(22:00):
communication flows? Like howquickly was that happening?
Can you offer a little bit ofcontext for us?
Rondo (22:07):
Yeah, that's a great question. So two of the biggest
challenges as a leader that youwill often experience, and
certainly I did, is time andcommunication. Time in the sense
that people on the inside of theorganization will say, Mishanda,
you are moving way too fast forus. And people on the outside
(22:30):
are going, you're at a snail'space, you're moving way too
slow. And time is something thatit will feel like it's bringing
you flowers, but it's animposter.
You don't have the time,especially in the midst of a
crisis that you think you do.And so when the crisis is
(22:53):
evolving, and you're gettingbits and pieces of information
in right away, you're trying todo your best discernment to pick
out what's factual and yetpeople and understandably so,
they need an update. They needan update and not just the
community, but you can imaginelocal, national, news media
(23:16):
outlets. We got to get our 06:00folks out there. We got to do an
update.
And so you're trying to be astransparent as possible. But as
you said, you're getting verylimited, at sometimes
unverifiable information andyou're doing your best to sort
through that and get that out.And I mentioned this in the book
(23:39):
that the initial information wereceived, which was not correct
ultimately, as we came to findout, was that, there was a
medical emergency, whichprompted, and ultimately caused,
his death. That obviously wasnot the case. And once that
information goes out, as youfully understand and your
(24:02):
listeners will, you wish youcould take it back, but you
can't.
You can't. And so then you haveto own it. Ultimately, as the
leader of the organization, Ihave to own that. And by the
way, it hurt many people. In themidst of a crisis, trust is your
currency.
(24:22):
Nothing else is going to be asvaluable as that. And trust me,
going through the events of thatsummer, I can tell you, trust is
the ultimate value of currency.And I will also say this to
leaders when I speak with folksboth in government and private
(24:42):
sector, build thoserelationships and allies in the
quiet moments. Do not wait forthe crisis. You will not be able
to accomplish that in thoserelationships.
So do it now. And so, even afterthat initial information came
out as a medical emergency,believe me, I had to meet folks.
(25:04):
I had to call folks and they hadto hear it from me. It's not
about me delegating now to otherfolks down the chain, they need
to hear it from me. And as aleader, you have to own that.
And so that's how that initialinformation came to be.
Chanda (25:20):
We talked about the identities that you hold. And so
when you find out that it wasn'tthe medical emergency, like I
have never had to do withanything like that, but I've
dealt with a lot. There anadditional pressure I put on
myself, particularly when I'mlooking at people I know, or
(25:41):
that look like me. And so whatwas going through your mind when
you found that out? Like was it,I don't know how I would have
reacted.
You all got me out there infront of my people telling them
what? Like, I mean, I don't knowwhat I would do, but like, you
know what? I don't even knowwhat to ask you, Rhonda, but
(26:03):
like, it's sort of like what wasgoing through your mind? Like
was it automatically like Igotta get to justice on this?
Was that immediate?
Rondo (26:15):
So a couple of things and it's a great question. And I
think you as a leader in yourlisteners will hopefully
understand this here. That 160year old institution, in many
ways, is like a family. When thebad thing happens, and it's
(26:40):
exposed to the world, a naturalreaction for institutions is to
rally, come in, be insular,isolate ourselves. And I knew
that history.
And so it was a reminder for meduring that time as a leader,
(27:05):
that Rondo, there are going tobe just natural reactions from
the culture of this institutionthat is going to resist. And
it's certainly going to resistand you're going to see it more
prevalent in moments of crisis.And our conversation today,
Miss Chanda, is so relevant aswe see other things shaping up
(27:26):
around the nation, institutions,leaders having to make some
tough calls and decisions. Butthat was a reminder for me that,
Rondo, not only do you have toseek the truth, but you also
have to understand that thereare going to be those even
within your own organization,your institution that are going
(27:48):
to resist it. And it may noteven be intentional, but it's
based on how that system and itshistory was set up.
And so that was one of thethings, that came to me. But I
also had the history and therelationships to know, they
ain't going to take a memo or anemail for me trying to explain
(28:09):
it. They've got to see my face.They've got to hear me. And it
can't happen again.
And so, I can't tell you howmany conversations and meetings,
Mishanda, I had in our churchesand parking lots, and literally
an activist's backyards on week.I mean, it was you, you have to
(28:32):
be out there front and centerleadership in general, but
certainly during the midst of acrisis. It has to be active
engagement, can't be passive. Ithas to be active engagement.
There's seven principles that myleadership, if you want to say
style for a better word, or justhow I run them.
The first is never abandon yourvalues throughout. Never abandon
(28:58):
your values. When we were in themidst of that crisis, I would
have officers and supervisors,you know, what's the plan?
What's the plan? What's theplan?
And that's going be also naturalreaction. People are going
through something that they'venever experienced before. And I
would say if you don't hear mesay anything else, go back to
your oath of office. If youstick back to your oath of
office, which is our corevalues, you're going to be
(29:20):
alright. So never abandon yourvalues.
Second is own what you say,right? We put out that medical
release. It was not accurate.That's on me. I got to own that.
Don't run away or deflect. I gotto own that. The third thing is
listen to all voices. I wasn'tjust me listening to the mayor
(29:42):
or city council members or mycommand staff. I'm meeting with
young activists.
I'm meeting with small Latinobusiness owners. I'm meeting
with faith leaders. You got tolisten to all voices. The other
thing is you have to act. Youhave to act quickly, honestly,
and decisively.
And when I say quickly, you haveto. You may make some mistakes,
(30:05):
especially in a crisis, but youhave to act. Time again, it's a
thief. You don't have the timethat you may think you do. Stay
consistent in your values iskey.
Constantly scan threats, bothexternal and internal. As I
mentioned, and I mentioned it inmy book, there were some things
that just the system itself wasnot going to make sure it got to
(30:27):
me. And the last of myprinciples is always lead with
hope. And I want you to know,Miss Chanda, for me, hope is not
a mood. It's a practice.
Chanda (30:41):
Every day, it's not passive.
Rondo (30:44):
It's not passive. It's a practice every single day.
You're out there, you'repracticing that hope every time
during that time when I got infront of a camera, I always
remembered our children arewatching what I'm saying every
word in which I'm saying. And sothat's what helped guide me. And
(31:04):
again, as I see our country andI see both, whether it's
corporate America, ouruniversity systems, I mean,
again, I get leadership isdifficult.
It's hard. It's not for thefaint of heart. But my number
one rule is never abandon yourvalues. Just never abandon your
values. The moment you do that,and the moment you compromise
(31:25):
your values, whether it's forpolitical or other types of
pressure, I've never seenanything good come from that.
Chanda (31:34):
I remember having a conversation or being in a
meeting with you during thisperiod of time. And I think I
even said like, yourorganization is in crisis And
you are literally everywhere.You're at the churches, I was in
some of those faithconversations, you're meeting
with the downtown folks, you'remeeting with the folks in the
(31:56):
neighborhood. How in the worlddo you have the capacity to both
manage the external challengesthat were happening and then
meet the demands of everybodywanted your time. Everybody
wanted your time.
Did you sleep?
Rondo (32:12):
No, no. I say this, looking back during that time,
you can't. Now when I, whenMayor Fry asked me to come on
and serve as his chief Januarytwenty eighteen. You know, I
(32:32):
accepted that again, the giftand the weight of that role and
the responsibility. But my bosswas never the mayor.
My boss was the 430,000residents of the city of
Minneapolis. And so I had to bethere for them. And no, I did
(32:58):
not sleep, during that time. AndI'm someone who believes, in
wellness and self care, but I'mjust being honest, that had to
be compromised, because not onlydid I need to get our city
through this, but you canimagine the calls that I
(33:20):
received from Chiefs of Policeall over the country, who were
saying, you know, there was noblueprint at all for what we
experienced. Unprecedented.
It was the most singlesignificant police civilian
incident in modern Americanhistory. Nothing compares to it.
(33:41):
Every 50 states had protests ordemonstrations, and over 60
countries had global protestsand demos. So there was nothing
that we ever experienced. I wishthere was a in case of
emergency, Rhonda, break glass.
I think, okay, there was none ofthat. And so at the same time,
you fall back to your elders,you fall back to those other
(34:04):
voices. I mentioned in the bookabout unconventional allies. The
book is going to probablyshatter a lot of assumptions
that people may have aboutpolice, activists, and just
specifically for Minneapolis,some of the ordinary people that
stepped up and did someextraordinary things to get our
(34:25):
city through again. And by theway, I should also mention, I'm
sure your listeners knows wewere going through a pandemic,
which we had not everexperienced in over one hundred
years.
I don't think people forget thatthat was also this is before
vaccine talks were talkingabout. This is so we have that
going on. By the way, we werealso experiencing a significant
(34:47):
increase in violent crime. Itwas during those times. I mean,
you probably remember and yourlisteners do three precious
angels of ours under the age of10 were shot in Minneapolis.
I remember at North Memorialpraying by the bedside of our
young precious angel Trinity.And so all of these things, so
(35:09):
you have to be there. There wasno time for sleep. And my number
one goal became, quite frankly,Mishanda, was no more funerals.
Our city was so tense.
It was the epicenter of so muchangst, frustration, anger,
(35:32):
uncertainty, instability. Andso, I just had to make sure that
we got through and I had to justlead with whatever bit of sinew
and breath and oxygen that Icould to do my part.
Chanda (35:48):
Well, I remember, I think this might even went viral
or maybe I just saw it, but yougot into an exchange with one of
our city council members and youwere a little testy if I recall.
And I remember watching it and Iwas like, I'm just tired. I'm
(36:09):
like, he's always so even, he'salways positive. If there's
anybody that can take the heatout turning it up is you, I
Rondo (36:18):
witnessed it over
Chanda (36:19):
and over again and you turn it up a little bit. Know.
And he's tired. Yeah.
Rondo (36:29):
I know, that my dear mother is watching always. And
so I gotta remember to berespectful and be nice. But I'm
sure at that moment thatprobably came out a little bit.
And so, yeah.
Chanda (36:48):
I remember saying, I'm like, oh, my first thought, I
didn't even have to listen to
Rondo (36:51):
the words. I'm like, he's tired. Absolutely. Absolutely.
Yeah.
Chanda (36:57):
Tired. Rhonda, what did you learn about your leadership
in that moment? Like, as youlook back, like what did you
learn about yourself? Like, wasit your ability to withstand
those pressures? Was it anability to, like if your values
were ever tested, they weretested during that time.
Rondo (37:19):
Yeah, so one of the things I learned, and I know
you'll probably appreciate thisand your listeners, is those
small simple things that ourparents teach us at a young age.
(37:44):
And I mean this like clean yourbedroom. Say yes, say thank you.
Say smile when you greet people.Try not to take things too
personally.
(38:07):
Attitude is everything. Thosethings that seem so small back
then. Now that I look at it, itwas preparing me and almost miss
Chanda, this, my parents wereproviding this suit of armor to
help me for when I might have toface a storm or crisis. And so
(38:34):
that was one of the things thatI looked back on was how much
those conversations and thoselessons in life that my parents
gave me that I might have eventhought, they don't know
Chanda (38:47):
what they're talking about, what
Rondo (38:48):
have you, but how much that stayed with me and how much
it helped me. The other thingthat I learned early on, and I
mentioned this in the book,there's a chapter that's
entitled When 32 Becomes 36.Building those allies and
building those relationshipsearly on. And it's not about
(39:10):
there's no community that'smonolithic. It's building those
allies and those relationships.
And even if you disagree, keepan open heart, keep an open ear,
because you never know whenyou're going to need them and
ask for help. And so that wasvery important for me. And also
(39:33):
just seeing my own resilience,that just being able to, and my
limits as well. That wassomething that I because there
were spaces that I was not theright messenger. And so it's
(39:54):
putting aside your ego, beinghumble and being a humility is
so critically important, thinkin leadership.
And so being able to say, youknow what, I can't go the next
lap. Miss Chanda, I got to giveyou the baton and take off. And
so those were things that Iwould say. But I will also I'll
(40:16):
say this, hope. I can't tell youhow there was never a day and as
bad as it got during that time,I knew we as a city, we were
going to come through this.
There was never a doubt in mymind. Even in the darkest
moments, I knew we were gonnaget through this as a city.
Chanda (40:37):
You made immediate decision once you found out what
occurred to fire the officersand take action. And I imagine
that that did not go well foreveryone that was in the rank
and file. Your book is titledJustice for George Floyd, right?
Rondo (41:01):
Yes.
Chanda (41:02):
Securing Justice for the Murder of George Floyd. You
acted that way from thebeginning. And what that leads
me to is questions aroundaccountability. And from your
point of view, what like,because you've talked about the
history from the 1800s, you'vetalked about sort of the lack of
(41:23):
diversity, the challenges, yousued a department that you
ultimately began to lead. Andembedded in all of that is the
entrenched ways of protectingand all the things that you
said.
And so we understand that you'recoming up against a lot of
factors here, but what doesaccountability and policing look
(41:45):
like for you? Because you reallydemonstrated that, but what does
that look like? What can youshare with us?
Rondo (41:52):
I did not have to see, and I mentioned this in the book
as well, but when I saw thevideo, in the early morning
hours of May 25, early morninghours actually of May 26, I did
(42:13):
not have to see a ton ofinvestigations of, you know, my
eyes did not lie to me. And so,when I came into office as
chief, one of the first things Idid, back in 2017 was I sent
(42:37):
out, I called it, the Chief'svision statement for the MPD. It
was going to be our new pathwaymoving forward. Every single
employee sworn and civilianreceived that. The importance of
that was two things.
One, not every there's no way Iwas going to get to know every
single, employee of theMinneapolis Police Department,
(43:01):
but they needed to know what myexpectations were for them and
what they could expect of me.The first part of that vision
statement, I mentioned veryexplicitly about the sanctity of
life. The officers need to gohome at the end of the day, but
our community does as well. Andso that sanctity of life is our
(43:26):
bedrock. That's part of thevalue, the values that I talk
about.
And so, that was violated. Italk strongly about humanity.
And by the way, humanity has tobe embedded within our policies
as leaders. After George Floydwas killed, one of the things
(43:54):
that I did was I changed our 160year old basically, oath of
office. And it was acollaborative process with
community NAACP and MinneapolisUrban League.
And Mishanda, do you know whatthe most radical word in our new
oath of office was? Love. Love,and a love of service. We talk
(44:20):
about the human family in thatnew oath of office. We talk
about officers, if they'rewitnessing someone's rights
being violated, they have a dutyto intervene both protests
verbally and physically if theyhave to, even against if it's
someone who's wearing the sameuniform that they are.
(44:43):
It's not about just leading withauthority, but leading with
humanity. And so when I tookthat decision to terminate the
employment of those four formerofficers, that was based again
on our values. That was basedagain on what our ethics were.
(45:07):
And it was also based on thatvision and that sanctity of
life. And so yes, there arecertainly and there certainly
were those who within theorganization that did not like
that.
But as a leader, you fight fortruth, even if it means you
(45:28):
stand alone. You fight fortruth, even if it means you
stand alone. And being a leaderisn't about holding on to power.
It's about holding people. Andso that is why I made the
decision I did.
I stand by that decision. Andso, I wanted to make sure that
(45:55):
when I left and made thedecision to leave, I didn't
leave with regret. I left withmy integrity. And so I feel
strongly about them.
Chanda (46:04):
How much reform have you seen? Right? Like sometimes it
feels like it stands still andyou mentioned earlier, one
incident is what community sees.You see it, that's changed. It
seems to me like obviously evenin the counting of the history
that you talked about from HenryG.
Thompson, There's a lot that haschanged from his point to your
(46:26):
point. Are there reformshappening that you think are
just moving in the rightdirection that you would want to
mention that you think areimportant levers to additional
sort of community policing andthe type of experience and
relationship that communityought to have with our police
departments?
Rondo (46:47):
Yeah, so a couple of things that I see in terms of
transformation, in progress,which I have seen I've I've
stepped aside from theprofession that are good is I
think you are starting to see,you know, when I made the
decision to terminate theemployment of those four former
officers, that wasunprecedented. A sitting chief
(47:08):
to do that in a criminal murderthat just that that did happen
before. However, you arestarting to see more chiefs of
police across this nation andsheriffs who are taking quick,
decisive, transparent employmentdecisions and disciplined
decisions right away that youhad never seen before. You're
(47:30):
also starting to see unions stepup and and also realize that,
which I've often said, the mostimportant contract that a police
officer has isn't with theunion. It's the contract and
promise they have with thepeople that are paying their
salaries that they've taken anoath to protect and serve.
So you're seeing that. We'reseeing technology now being
(47:55):
utilized in police departmentsacross the country that we had
never seen before. We obviouslybody cameras has been so
important. Different types oftechnology has been great. We're
seeing police and chiefs ofpolice and sheriffs using data
to tell our community story,which is now starting to really
engage in informative trustbased dialogue.
(48:18):
You know, don't just tell mesomething. I want to see the
data. So we're starting to seethat. But I will also say that
all of that pales in comparisonto police chiefs and sheriffs
hiring people with character.None of those other things can
(48:39):
replace having people who wantto serve their communities and
they have character because it'sthose individuals who will live
up to and aspire to make surethat those values are not
abandoned and never abandoned.
So again, there's progressalong. There's a lot of work,
(49:01):
more work to do. Sadly, evenafter Mr. Floyd was killed, we
saw the tragedy with Mr. TyreeNichols in Memphis.
I commend Chief Sarah Lynn Davisdown there. She took swift
action. I mean, we're startingto again, we're starting to see
accountability and what thatlooks like, and not being drawn
(49:23):
into this culture silence. And,you know, we're gonna wait to
see all of these things play outbefore we, you know, leaders are
stepping up and communities arestarting to see that more, but
still more work to do.
Chanda (49:36):
Yeah, you know, I didn't mention, so your father, you
have a son.
Rondo (49:42):
Oh yes, yes, yes.
Chanda (49:43):
And you have a daughter.
Rondo (49:45):
Yes.
Chanda (49:45):
I'm gonna go to the son for a second. What was that like
parenting during that period oftime? Was he like, I mean, there
tension, was there support? Haveyou had to give the talk? All of
the things that come withparenting, how was that
navigating that?
Rondo (50:08):
So he was a young adult during that time, but I actually
in my book again, I mentionedabout the talk because that is
real. I mentioned that as well.But during that specific time,
he's trying to as a young adult,he's trying to process all of
this as well. And as I talkedabout, there wasn't a whole lot
(50:31):
of sleep. I would check-in withboth of them, son and daughter
to make sure they're doing okay.
As any parent you want to shieldyour children from, all those
things, I received, you could,all those things, but they
(50:52):
didn't sign up for that. And soyou always are going to be more
protective of your children. Butthey managed it. They are smart
individuals and smarter thantheir dad. But they manage, they
process, they also listen todiffering voices as well.
(51:17):
They also had an advantagebecause they also, they knew a
lot about history through me.And, so but they did well, if
anything, I had to tell them,don't worry about me. I'm
getting my share of peanut M andM's every day as my daily diet
routine while I'm out hereworking.
Chanda (51:40):
I saw them at your retirement event. I think one of
them spoke, can't remember. AndI was just a mess. I needed all
kinds of tissue.
Rondo (51:56):
Well, know you are a very caring and loving mother
yourself and yeah, we get veryproud of our children. And so,
and it is true just as for you.I can only imagine some of the
things that you had to miss justbecause of your role in your
space, whether you're flying outof town and you can't be back
(52:17):
for this or you're going to missthis special event or holiday or
just yeah. And so again, theydidn't sign up for it, but
they're along the journey withus. And so you it's yeah, we're
blessed that at one point intime I tried to just how do you
(52:38):
make up for lost time?
You can't, but you just try yourbest and they pretty much said,
dad, it's okay, we got you.
Chanda (52:46):
And they were to us. Made pride and I always have to
mention it because oftentimeswhen we're in these moments and
people are leading, it issometimes invisible that we
still are parents, we still havework, we still have
accountabilities. And I thinkit's just important to mention
(53:08):
that you were parenting andmanaging these young adults in
the moment. As we get ready towrap, I wanna ask you, what is
giving you hope right now?
Rondo (53:19):
What's giving me hope right now is I'm seeing leaders
step up into their roles andholding on to their values, even
at great cost to their titles,to their salaries. They're
(53:44):
holding the line when everythingelse says retreat, they're
rising. And that is giving mehope. So that I see that. And
that's critically important.
The other thing that I see isyoung people. One of the things
(54:06):
that was so very helpful duringmy time as chief was being able
to be in spaces where we havesuch magnificent, intelligent
young voices out there that wantto make a better tomorrow. And
we have to support them in that.And they're all around us, by
(54:28):
the way. And I just give a plugto your son who's doing great
things over at V3 Sports.
But we have to make sure that wesupport them. So that gets me
whole. But I'll just say lastly,the last chapter of my book,
it's a personal letter to GiannaFloyd, Mr. Floyd's daughter. And
(54:51):
so, I owe her a brighter future.
And I think we all have anobligation, a brighter future,
with hope for our children. So Iremain hopeful. And again, hope
to me, it's not a mood, it's apractice. So I'll continue to
(55:11):
practice that.
Chanda (55:13):
Man, so what you just said, I'm like, I can feel the
emotion coming up. The book,Securing Justice for the Murder
of George Floyd, it is beingreleased in May.
Rondo (55:25):
It's in May, May thirteenth. It'll be officially
released. You can find it allthe traditional large bookstore
sites, Beetle and Amazon. Theothers also are independent
bookstores around the country.And again, I want to say it is a
story of hope and particularlyfor people who were in
(55:49):
Minneapolis or in the state OfMinnesota.
I think there will be someinteresting information they had
not known before. I think itwill give you a view and glimpse
of why I made the decisions Imade. And it'll also probably
again, surprise and shatter someassumptions that people have,
but in the end, it is a book ofhope. So thank you for allowing
me the opportunity to share aconversation with you and your
(56:11):
listeners, Ms. Chanda
Chanda (56:13):
Yeah, thank you for being here. Thank you for your
willingness to put your storyand your leadership on paper. I
agree with your family member.I'm thankful that they pushed
you. I cannot wait to read it.
I would encourage everyone to goout and get it because we should
be supportive. There are manythings that we need to learn
(56:35):
from. And in this moment in ourhistory, as challenged as it
was, it seems incrediblyimportant for us to really have
sort of the look back, a lens ofwhat it meant to lead during
that time. And so I just reallywant to thank you for doing
that. And I will be back intouch with you for sure after I
(56:57):
read it.
So thank you, Rondo, for beingon Conversation. Thank
Rondo (57:01):
Thank you. So can I share one little funny note with your
viewers? You know what this isgonna be. So as I'm wrapping up
my tenure as chief, I wanted topersonally reach out to, leaders
in the community who had been sohelpful and supportive for me
over the years. And so one ofthem, to your listeners was Ms.
Chanda And so I've been tryingto get in touch with you. I know
(57:23):
you are very busy. And soeventually I was able to get
ahold of you because I had abeautiful plaque that I wanted
to present you. Well, to yourlisteners, Miss Chanda happened
to be getting her hair did at asalon.
At the salon. And I said, well,got something for you. And she
(57:44):
says, well, I'm getting my hair.I said, come on outside. So she
I don't know what was in yourhair, but you came out to the
street.
I'm giving you this, I'm givingyou this sort of proclamation of
this award and you're like, youbetter not have any pictures
posted of me with my hair likethis here. But,
Chanda (58:02):
my hair wrapped, all the women from the salon came out,
I've got on a cape. I'm sittingon this busy street and you
didn't just hand it to me. Youhad words.
Rondo (58:14):
Absolutely. So I will remember that as well.
Chanda (58:18):
So, well, it was a stressful moment. I appreciate
you, sir.
Rondo (58:21):
This has been so wonderful. I can't tell you
again, just knowing you over thetime and the years that I have,
you've been so such a joy and ablessing and we're better. We're
better as a city and a communityfor having than not having you
truly.
Chanda (58:38):
Thank you.
Souphak (58:40):
If you'd like to explore more content and join
our community, find us atconversationswithchanda.com. We
have a wonderful collection ofepisodes featuring notable
guests that you can enjoy onYouTube or wherever you get your
podcast. And I also invite youto follow our journey and add us
on Instagram at Conversationswith Chanda. Until next time.
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