May 16, 2022 • 22 mins
What role does it play in our relationships? Can it be a form of courtship? Music Supervisor Juliet Martin and director Leann Welham take us through the process of marrying music to the show. Noam tells us about the time she texted a link to Total Eclipse of the Heart over and over again and it worked. And a story about the sweetest mixtape that you’d probably never want to hear.
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:01):
Straw Hut media.
Speaker 2 (00:02):
Music is so visceral, and that's the beauty of us,
you know, almost of any other art from In one sense,
music inspires you know, that creative process, because it really
does in a way that I just yeah.
Speaker 3 (00:14):
I'm a Joanna super fan. Join a new I'm a
huge Joanna Newsome fan because I'm I'm like a mass
I'm a super fan A join a Newsome superfan.
Speaker 1 (00:24):
Welcome to Conversations with Friends and Strangers. I'm Maggie, I'm Nolam.
In the show, we take a closer look at the
complicated relationships in the Hulu series Conversations with Friends, we'll.
Speaker 3 (00:33):
Meet some of the cast and crew, chat with experts,
and share our own kind of sexy, kind of uncomfortable,
but relatable stories about the messy relationships we find ourselves in.
We could talk about a lot of stuff this episode
so much, but because Maggie's obsessed with John and Newsome,
We're going to take this opportunity to talk about music.
What role does it play in our relationships?
Speaker 1 (00:55):
Music supervisor Juliette Martin and Directorlianne Wellhem take us through
their process of marrying music to the show. Then we
learn that texting total eclipse of the heart over and
over and over again to your ex is an effective
way to get them to come back. I mean it
was a temporary solution and a story about the sweetest
mixtape that you'd probably never want to listen to. But first,
a quick recap. Francis and Bobby at ten Melissa's book launch,
(01:20):
and Francis gets very jealous.
Speaker 3 (01:22):
She tries to use Bobby to make Nick jealous, but
Bobby draws a hard boundary.
Speaker 1 (01:27):
Bobby ends up bringing the bartender home and Francis can
hear everything.
Speaker 3 (01:31):
She downloads Tinder. Nick sends her a Johnny Newsome song.
Speaker 1 (01:34):
She goes out with the tender match. He's very normcore,
but she sleeps with him anyway.
Speaker 3 (01:39):
Later at dinner, Philip learns about the relationship with Nick.
He thinks Francis is being taken advantage of.
Speaker 1 (01:45):
Francis goes to Nick's and she tells him about sleeping
with someone else. It's contense.
Speaker 3 (01:50):
They go upstairs and as they're getting ready to have sex,
they fight.
Speaker 1 (01:54):
Francis says she's in love with him, but he doesn't
feel the same. She storms out, the problem isn't your
married Nick?
Speaker 4 (02:01):
The problems that I'm in love with you and you
obviously don't feel the same folky.
Speaker 1 (02:08):
She gets home and she looks for Bobby, but she's
not there.
Speaker 3 (02:11):
She stays up all night writing a short story, the Dance.
Speaker 2 (02:16):
I'd read the book a couple of times because it
was I'd been a book club and it was on
our book club, and then I ran out of books
in the house. I just had that there. So I said,
this is all before even talk of the series. So
I read it again. So I maybe even read it
three times.
Speaker 5 (02:31):
I read great much at this point.
Speaker 1 (02:34):
Yes, yeah, this is music supervisor Juliette Martin. We asked
her about the process of creating music for the show.
Speaker 2 (02:41):
I mean, I think, you know, when you start off,
you're much more generally like, especially after reading the script,
you're kind of just it's quite a nice time because
you're just really freely kind of just putting in ideas.
Just have this big playlist and I'm just throwing in
ideas and it doesn't have to be like super kind
of honed into a scene yet, it's just based on
I feel, And I find it really hard to describe
what it is that I might think, Okay, like it's
(03:02):
only nearly after the series is done and you can
look back and go, Okay, that's that's the tone, you know.
And we definitely didn't have any big right it's going
to be this, you know, I think it was just
sort of a response to the materials.
Speaker 3 (03:14):
So so Juliette had this playlist and she sent it
to Lenny Abramson, the primary director of the show, together
with the editor Nathan Nugent, who had his own massive playlist.
Speaker 2 (03:23):
And we just sort of ended up with this sort
of huge playlist, and you know, a lot of the
tracks that end up on the series are on there,
and it's really collaborative. Everybody can suggest a piece of
music that will work, and you know, we have a
song from the producer Emma Norton, lots of suggestions from
(03:43):
Nathan and Lenny, and then then more specifically with Leanne
on the other block. I sent a big MP three
playlist to the editors so that they can specifically put
the music to the picture. So obviously in Spotify you're
not directly doing that, you're just listening and sort of
thing thinking about it for scenes, but that allows the
editor is to sort of actually set it to picture.
Speaker 4 (04:06):
Yeah, I mean music is a big part of it
for me personally.
Speaker 1 (04:10):
Here's Leannellam, she's the director of episode six through ten.
Speaker 4 (04:13):
I'm a big music fan and when I listen to music,
I find it quite inspiring, and certainly when it gets
to the edit, you know, I think using contemporary music
has been was a big part of the show. Obviously,
they used it really effectively in Normal People, and I
think it's something else that obviously felt like the right
(04:33):
thing to do in this show as well. And my editor,
Sarah Bates, who worked with me on my episodes, brilliant editor,
and she's also in a band, an Americana band. She's
very knowledgeable about music. So we really enjoyed that process
of thinking about what songs could go in over what moments,
(04:55):
and obviously it completely changes the move of obviously one
song to choose, so it's a big it's a big
part of that of the feeling that you're trying to achieve.
So that was really fun and we loved it just
kind of coming up with ideas and trying them out.
And I'm really happy that some of my choices made
it into the final part.
Speaker 3 (05:13):
I'm curious about that you were in a Newsome song,
because in the book it's not specified which song, and
then in the show it's Peach Plump pair. I'm a
huge chewin a Newsome fan. Was that a Sally Rooney
choice or was that something else?
Speaker 4 (05:27):
I just love that song. I think it's so beautiful
and so odd, and it sounds kind of strangely wistful
and very romantic, and it just felt right that Nick
would send her the song, especially that he sends her
this song kind of at a time when they the
relationship is not quite clear what's going on, and they
sound it slightly distant, and it just felt very just
(05:49):
something that Nick might do, just, you know, send this
song like just out of nowhere instead of, you know,
something more clear and more clear message.
Speaker 1 (05:59):
And of course there's the amazing cover by the mctigue twins.
Speaker 4 (06:02):
We were really lucky because Sarah Mytor found the beautiful
cover that comes in later on an episode of Peach Plump,
which is such a beautiful interpretation of the song you
(06:23):
see market, and it was really lovely to be able
to have that song kind of come back in but
in a more slightly more mournful, sad way. It just
worked perfectly with what was going on.
Speaker 3 (06:41):
Were there any songs that you knew right away you
wanted to find a space for in the show.
Speaker 2 (06:47):
Yeah, I mean there there's this Irish band called Wyvern
Lingo and they have this beautiful song called Used, which
closes out the first episode and got these amazing harmonies.
But then there's another one called Nod by Juliana Barrack,
and yeah, just when I heard that, like even before
(07:08):
i'd read the script or before i'd seen it, but
after I'd read the script, I kind of knew that
that had some just there's something in it that felt
right for the series. And we ended up using that
two different episodes, so in episode three, I think, and
then in episode five when Francis has had the fight
with the book agent, and it doesn't even have any lyrics,
(07:31):
it's just it's just got something about it that's kind
of it's just a kind of vocal repeat. It just
seems to work really well, and I'm really yeah, I
guess the team seemed to connect with it as well,
and it's been used really nicely.
Speaker 1 (07:45):
Sometimes the first choice is the best choice, and sometimes
you just wistfully watch the train pull out of the
station and say goodbye.
Speaker 2 (07:53):
Well, there was Caroline Politechs song Door that I really
loved for episode two. I mean, What's there is amazing
as well, but that that was the one that I loved.
I loved the lyrics. That's when she's on the train
and she's you know, the lyrics are kind of like,
you know, leave your judgment to the door. I mean
maybe maybe the decision was because the never ex were
(08:13):
two on the nose. That was one that I really
did like. I think people did like for a while,
but it ended up it ended up going yeah, there's
(08:35):
always you just love to put on everything that you've
ever loved into things, but unfortunately that's just not the.
Speaker 6 (08:39):
Job, you know.
Speaker 2 (08:40):
Yeah, yeah, you're really subservient to the picture, you know,
and what works for it best.
Speaker 3 (08:47):
We're going to take a little break. But when we
come back, should we talk about the fight?
Speaker 1 (08:51):
How about you tell your story about your musical communication,
then we talk about the fight, and then we hear
a very sweet story about a playlist as a form
of courtship. Okay, Deale, welcome back today. We're talking about
(09:17):
music and the role it plays in our relationships.
Speaker 3 (09:19):
One thing that makes me such a rooney nerd is
that when I read Conversations with Friends the first time,
it felt like she was writing pieces of myself, of
my life in there. Well, specifically a messy relationship, and
well that was the same one that filled most of
my time in Paris and apparently is filling out most
of this podcast, Antoine.
Speaker 1 (09:38):
You and Antoine were dating while he was living with
a long term girlfriend.
Speaker 3 (09:44):
Right. Yes, they had been together for nine years. At
that point, I was invisible in his life to anyone else,
and we weren't Facebook friends or anything like. Actually quite
the opposite. His best friend used to come to the
bar and drink and tell me that Antoine had a
pick should we Every time we were on the outs,
he would post a song on his Facebook wall and
(10:06):
it was global, like open privacy. We would know that
it was directed to one of us because it would
be the only thing that showed up.
Speaker 1 (10:14):
On our wall. So this was making an assumption that
you were both checking on each other's Facebook pages. Oh,
we were, okay.
Speaker 3 (10:20):
We we were both obsessed with each other. So he
would post a song and then I would see it,
and I would post a song in return, and we
would rekindle things and.
Speaker 1 (10:32):
Get back together.
Speaker 3 (10:33):
So I have compiled the list of some of the
key moments in our relationship. In March twenty fifteen, and
Twana and I were just staring at each other, talking
or just stirring at each other or trying to figure
out if we could have an affair. He asked me
about kids. It was too much and I say, nevermind,
go back to your girlfriend. In March twenty fifth, twenty fifteen,
(10:56):
he posts a tame Impaula song the Less I Know
the Better cause by the bar, I showed my tight
in an apartment and we sleep together. After a bit
of that, he starts rethinking things and I got really
hurt by that. He texted me long texts in French.
I texted him long texts in English. Google Translate is
(11:18):
third wheeling hard and we stopped talking. On April ten,
he posted stand for by ty Dolla sign and it
did it for me and we and it got going again.
But then I got a little weird about and I
gave him a soft older met him, which is he
can't come over if he's still with a relationship with
someone that isn't me. After about a week, I caved
(11:40):
in and on April twenty fifth, twenty fifteen, I post
the Smiths, I know it's over. And then two days later,
on April twenty seventh, he posts Judy, don't go by
the dirty Fences, and it kept going throughout the relationship.
On January twenty sixth, twenty sixteen, and he posts Bamboo
(12:01):
by Elon Chankfau, to which I replied posting I know
it's over. On January thirty first, twenty sixteen. Our biggest
fight was when he finally left his girlfriend. I was
speaking French by then. He text us saying pomo de
diller bo and he was like, get me tickets for Israel.
I'm moving out. He would leave me homemade cookies outside
(12:24):
my door in the morning, like we really were finally
just him and I in a relationship without this you know,
third person existence. But as you were going closer and
closer to Israel departure date, he started to kind of
like fall apart again, and he was depressed and guilty
and insecure and had second thoughts about about us, about
going to Israel, and I was I was devastated, and
(12:45):
I was so tired at that point. I was such
an emotional wreck, and I just what I did that day,
I went to work and it just started sending him
YouTube links to Kitchi eighties songs like per hour for
about eight hours, and then afterwards they just sent him
total clip of the heart again and again and again,
(13:06):
like a fucking mediac. But I couldn't make him hear
how much that hurt me. But Bonnie did.
Speaker 1 (13:14):
He came to his room and.
Speaker 2 (13:29):
We'll be.
Speaker 1 (13:33):
It sounds like you guys had kind of the same
slow burning tension and a lack of communication that Nick
and Francis did.
Speaker 3 (13:40):
I mean, Nick is a better communicator, but yeah, for
Nick and Francis, we start to see that tension build
up while they're at Melissa's book launch.
Speaker 1 (13:50):
They look good together, don't they. I mean, they're a
good looking couple.
Speaker 4 (13:55):
They look right.
Speaker 2 (13:59):
If I was a burning building, it was only me
Nick and Melissa.
Speaker 1 (14:06):
He'd save her, wouldn't. I don't know, Francis, it's a
hypothetical question.
Speaker 4 (14:13):
But this is in this amazing green dress, and she
looks absolutely fabulous and just powerful, and she's the center
of attention. The red lipstick, and then you know, Francis
is in her little really quite cute pinafore dress, and
you know, I think the costumes were really really helpful
and really effective in accentuating those kind of moments and
(14:35):
the emotions that are going on there.
Speaker 1 (14:37):
The way they did this scene, you know, the way
it was shot, the sound, the writing, it feels really
authentic and also really inside of Francis's perspective. As the
episode progresses, I feel like it's so easy to go
along with Francis on her insecure jealous journey. She's hurting,
and so rather than talk about it or even really
(14:57):
examine it, she just gets kind of mean. She's trying
so hard not to be vulnerable, but she can't help it,
and it builds and builds and builds until she just explodes.
Speaker 6 (15:08):
I love a character that can kind of push you
that way. You know, you're not quite sure whether what
she's doing is right.
Speaker 1 (15:14):
This is producer Ginny Igo, but she's you.
Speaker 6 (15:17):
Also kind of can forgive it because she is just
growing up and making mistakes, and you kind of like
can relate. You can relate to that.
Speaker 4 (15:26):
The characters, the way that they talk to each other,
and the fact of being being so inside Francis's head
so fascinating. And the screenwriters on this show did such
a brilliant job of externalizing that so that you still
feel that you're really tied to her point of view.
It's like very subjective, but obviously without the need for
(15:48):
a horrible voice over.
Speaker 3 (15:51):
I think the god of scriptwriting that they did not
use a voiceover. That would have been really unfortunate.
Speaker 1 (15:59):
I totally agree. And actually another Irish project that came
out Belfast that movie. I loved that movie so much
except for the voiceover. It just really drove me crazy.
Voiceover really has the capacity to undermine a story. Oh
but sometimes a voiceover is necessary, like in this next story.
Speaker 5 (16:18):
At the time, I just moved to la and I
was just fresh off of a next year long relationship,
and I was ready to just date date, date, date, date,
and I went on conservatively. I went on one hundred
dates with people.
Speaker 1 (16:34):
This is my friend Catherine, remember her from episode two.
This story takes place many, many, many years after the
secret three way makeout sessions in drama school.
Speaker 5 (16:43):
I had so many good dates. They were all so fun.
I met so many nice people. Most of my I
didn't want to see it again, obviously, but you know,
it was just I was having a ball. I met
Sam even actually just in our brief text exchange on
the app and then off the app was showing it
to people going is that is it just me? Or
(17:03):
is this person just the perfect person for me? Am
I losing my mind? I don't want to lose my mind,
and that feeling of oh God, I'm a grown woman
and I think I'm following. Banana's in love with this
person and he's falling Banana's in love with me.
Speaker 1 (17:24):
It was their first Christmas as a couple. They'd only
been dating a couple months, and Sam had a great
idea for a Christmas present.
Speaker 5 (17:31):
He recorded his thought some feelings on top of the
Planet's so he would come in with an introduction with
some Glenn Miller playing beneath it, explaining what he was
going to do and that, and went through a list
of I'm not like regular playlist amount probably like twenty
(17:54):
songs or so important songs to him. But what I
loved about it was the cutting in and out. He
didn't let the songs play forever.
Speaker 3 (18:03):
You know.
Speaker 5 (18:04):
It was a particularly embarrassing song from his childhood, perhaps
a Limp Biscuit or something of that hill, and would
set the scene of where he was in his life.
When this song was important to him, who introduced it
to him, how it made him feel, what it was
like to listen to it now, just really took me
on a musical journey, and it was and he was
(18:27):
really good at it. And it was another another major
green flag for him that most of the artists on
this playlist were women. Do you know what I mean? Yes,
that he felt he felt a deep connection to Annie
DiFranco really wanted to talk about what her music meant
(18:50):
to him. You know, it's like, oh God, yes, give
me this guy.
Speaker 7 (18:55):
Well it's not just going where it's like a song,
but it's like it's like a ten minute long Oh
and it's called Serpentine.
Speaker 1 (19:03):
This is Sam. Obviously he and Catherine are still together.
Speaker 7 (19:07):
And I always you always want to like record a
mix d and you really want to, like when you're
in high school you record mix CDs and imagine that
people really understood what you event by it. And I
was like, well, that's like I want to do that,
but that's so silly and that never works. So I
just like basically made my own podcast version of like
walking somebody walking walking pattern through the experience of like
(19:31):
why these songs are not even particularly the best songs
that I know, but really like formative songs.
Speaker 5 (19:38):
I think, really what it is is that a lot
of times people.
Speaker 7 (19:43):
Want to show music and imagine that it's like going
to inspire the exact same emotions, and I'm like, that's
never that's never happened. I know that I the like art,
I like the movies, the music. It's like I connect
to it sometimes very specifically sense and I need to
like explain myself and that when other people do that
(20:04):
for me, it enhances the thing. You know, It's like
you could be some death metal band, but if somebody
can tell me what it is that they love about it,
what they the way that they find parts of themselves
in it, it enhances the experience.
Speaker 1 (20:18):
Listen, great job on that gift, Sam, Uh.
Speaker 6 (20:21):
Itredible worked out pretty well.
Speaker 5 (20:24):
They worked out incredibly well.
Speaker 2 (20:26):
This baby, Lucas read baby.
Speaker 1 (20:29):
She's so's durable, so round faced and beautiful and I
love her and a great outfit too.
Speaker 2 (20:38):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (20:39):
Sam and Catherine had a baby last year. Her name
is Sally.
Speaker 3 (21:00):
I know sat a show, don't know emmy all.
Speaker 1 (21:11):
This show is hosted and produced by me, Maggie Bowles
and me No I'm Gadweiser. It's written and edited by me,
with assistant editing by Noah Our. Supervising producer is Ryan Tillotson,
with help from Tyler Nielsen, Frank Driscoll, Nick Bailey and
the entire Straw Hut team. Theme music is by Maggie
Glass and Square Fish and big thanks to Aria Vishay,
Lauren Thorpe, Exavior Salas, and the Hulu team.
Speaker 5 (21:36):
Mag Smile
Speaker 3 (21:42):
Lest Hid, A Little Show pol
Straw Hut media.
Speaker 2 (00:02):
Music is so visceral, and that's the beauty of us,
you know, almost of any other art from In one sense,
music inspires you know, that creative process, because it really
does in a way that I just yeah.
Speaker 3 (00:14):
I'm a Joanna super fan. Join a new I'm a
huge Joanna Newsome fan because I'm I'm like a mass
I'm a super fan A join a Newsome superfan.
Speaker 1 (00:24):
Welcome to Conversations with Friends and Strangers. I'm Maggie, I'm Nolam.
In the show, we take a closer look at the
complicated relationships in the Hulu series Conversations with Friends, we'll.
Speaker 3 (00:33):
Meet some of the cast and crew, chat with experts,
and share our own kind of sexy, kind of uncomfortable,
but relatable stories about the messy relationships we find ourselves in.
We could talk about a lot of stuff this episode
so much, but because Maggie's obsessed with John and Newsome,
We're going to take this opportunity to talk about music.
What role does it play in our relationships?
Speaker 1 (00:55):
Music supervisor Juliette Martin and Directorlianne Wellhem take us through
their process of marrying music to the show. Then we
learn that texting total eclipse of the heart over and
over and over again to your ex is an effective
way to get them to come back. I mean it
was a temporary solution and a story about the sweetest
mixtape that you'd probably never want to listen to. But first,
a quick recap. Francis and Bobby at ten Melissa's book launch,
(01:20):
and Francis gets very jealous.
Speaker 3 (01:22):
She tries to use Bobby to make Nick jealous, but
Bobby draws a hard boundary.
Speaker 1 (01:27):
Bobby ends up bringing the bartender home and Francis can
hear everything.
Speaker 3 (01:31):
She downloads Tinder. Nick sends her a Johnny Newsome song.
Speaker 1 (01:34):
She goes out with the tender match. He's very normcore,
but she sleeps with him anyway.
Speaker 3 (01:39):
Later at dinner, Philip learns about the relationship with Nick.
He thinks Francis is being taken advantage of.
Speaker 1 (01:45):
Francis goes to Nick's and she tells him about sleeping
with someone else. It's contense.
Speaker 3 (01:50):
They go upstairs and as they're getting ready to have sex,
they fight.
Speaker 1 (01:54):
Francis says she's in love with him, but he doesn't
feel the same. She storms out, the problem isn't your
married Nick?
Speaker 4 (02:01):
The problems that I'm in love with you and you
obviously don't feel the same folky.
Speaker 1 (02:08):
She gets home and she looks for Bobby, but she's
not there.
Speaker 3 (02:11):
She stays up all night writing a short story, the Dance.
Speaker 2 (02:16):
I'd read the book a couple of times because it
was I'd been a book club and it was on
our book club, and then I ran out of books
in the house. I just had that there. So I said,
this is all before even talk of the series. So
I read it again. So I maybe even read it
three times.
Speaker 5 (02:31):
I read great much at this point.
Speaker 1 (02:34):
Yes, yeah, this is music supervisor Juliette Martin. We asked
her about the process of creating music for the show.
Speaker 2 (02:41):
I mean, I think, you know, when you start off,
you're much more generally like, especially after reading the script,
you're kind of just it's quite a nice time because
you're just really freely kind of just putting in ideas.
Just have this big playlist and I'm just throwing in
ideas and it doesn't have to be like super kind
of honed into a scene yet, it's just based on
I feel, And I find it really hard to describe
what it is that I might think, Okay, like it's
(03:02):
only nearly after the series is done and you can
look back and go, Okay, that's that's the tone, you know.
And we definitely didn't have any big right it's going
to be this, you know, I think it was just
sort of a response to the materials.
Speaker 3 (03:14):
So so Juliette had this playlist and she sent it
to Lenny Abramson, the primary director of the show, together
with the editor Nathan Nugent, who had his own massive playlist.
Speaker 2 (03:23):
And we just sort of ended up with this sort
of huge playlist, and you know, a lot of the
tracks that end up on the series are on there,
and it's really collaborative. Everybody can suggest a piece of
music that will work, and you know, we have a
song from the producer Emma Norton, lots of suggestions from
(03:43):
Nathan and Lenny, and then then more specifically with Leanne
on the other block. I sent a big MP three
playlist to the editors so that they can specifically put
the music to the picture. So obviously in Spotify you're
not directly doing that, you're just listening and sort of
thing thinking about it for scenes, but that allows the
editor is to sort of actually set it to picture.
Speaker 4 (04:06):
Yeah, I mean music is a big part of it
for me personally.
Speaker 1 (04:10):
Here's Leannellam, she's the director of episode six through ten.
Speaker 4 (04:13):
I'm a big music fan and when I listen to music,
I find it quite inspiring, and certainly when it gets
to the edit, you know, I think using contemporary music
has been was a big part of the show. Obviously,
they used it really effectively in Normal People, and I
think it's something else that obviously felt like the right
(04:33):
thing to do in this show as well. And my editor,
Sarah Bates, who worked with me on my episodes, brilliant editor,
and she's also in a band, an Americana band. She's
very knowledgeable about music. So we really enjoyed that process
of thinking about what songs could go in over what moments,
(04:55):
and obviously it completely changes the move of obviously one
song to choose, so it's a big it's a big
part of that of the feeling that you're trying to achieve.
So that was really fun and we loved it just
kind of coming up with ideas and trying them out.
And I'm really happy that some of my choices made
it into the final part.
Speaker 3 (05:13):
I'm curious about that you were in a Newsome song,
because in the book it's not specified which song, and
then in the show it's Peach Plump pair. I'm a
huge chewin a Newsome fan. Was that a Sally Rooney
choice or was that something else?
Speaker 4 (05:27):
I just love that song. I think it's so beautiful
and so odd, and it sounds kind of strangely wistful
and very romantic, and it just felt right that Nick
would send her the song, especially that he sends her
this song kind of at a time when they the
relationship is not quite clear what's going on, and they
sound it slightly distant, and it just felt very just
(05:49):
something that Nick might do, just, you know, send this
song like just out of nowhere instead of, you know,
something more clear and more clear message.
Speaker 1 (05:59):
And of course there's the amazing cover by the mctigue twins.
Speaker 4 (06:02):
We were really lucky because Sarah Mytor found the beautiful
cover that comes in later on an episode of Peach Plump,
which is such a beautiful interpretation of the song you
(06:23):
see market, and it was really lovely to be able
to have that song kind of come back in but
in a more slightly more mournful, sad way. It just
worked perfectly with what was going on.
Speaker 3 (06:41):
Were there any songs that you knew right away you
wanted to find a space for in the show.
Speaker 2 (06:47):
Yeah, I mean there there's this Irish band called Wyvern
Lingo and they have this beautiful song called Used, which
closes out the first episode and got these amazing harmonies.
But then there's another one called Nod by Juliana Barrack,
and yeah, just when I heard that, like even before
(07:08):
i'd read the script or before i'd seen it, but
after I'd read the script, I kind of knew that
that had some just there's something in it that felt
right for the series. And we ended up using that
two different episodes, so in episode three, I think, and
then in episode five when Francis has had the fight
with the book agent, and it doesn't even have any lyrics,
(07:31):
it's just it's just got something about it that's kind
of it's just a kind of vocal repeat. It just
seems to work really well, and I'm really yeah, I
guess the team seemed to connect with it as well,
and it's been used really nicely.
Speaker 1 (07:45):
Sometimes the first choice is the best choice, and sometimes
you just wistfully watch the train pull out of the
station and say goodbye.
Speaker 2 (07:53):
Well, there was Caroline Politechs song Door that I really
loved for episode two. I mean, What's there is amazing
as well, but that that was the one that I loved.
I loved the lyrics. That's when she's on the train
and she's you know, the lyrics are kind of like,
you know, leave your judgment to the door. I mean
maybe maybe the decision was because the never ex were
(08:13):
two on the nose. That was one that I really
did like. I think people did like for a while,
but it ended up it ended up going yeah, there's
(08:35):
always you just love to put on everything that you've
ever loved into things, but unfortunately that's just not the.
Speaker 6 (08:39):
Job, you know.
Speaker 2 (08:40):
Yeah, yeah, you're really subservient to the picture, you know,
and what works for it best.
Speaker 3 (08:47):
We're going to take a little break. But when we
come back, should we talk about the fight?
Speaker 1 (08:51):
How about you tell your story about your musical communication,
then we talk about the fight, and then we hear
a very sweet story about a playlist as a form
of courtship. Okay, Deale, welcome back today. We're talking about
(09:17):
music and the role it plays in our relationships.
Speaker 3 (09:19):
One thing that makes me such a rooney nerd is
that when I read Conversations with Friends the first time,
it felt like she was writing pieces of myself, of
my life in there. Well, specifically a messy relationship, and
well that was the same one that filled most of
my time in Paris and apparently is filling out most
of this podcast, Antoine.
Speaker 1 (09:38):
You and Antoine were dating while he was living with
a long term girlfriend.
Speaker 3 (09:44):
Right. Yes, they had been together for nine years. At
that point, I was invisible in his life to anyone else,
and we weren't Facebook friends or anything like. Actually quite
the opposite. His best friend used to come to the
bar and drink and tell me that Antoine had a
pick should we Every time we were on the outs,
he would post a song on his Facebook wall and
(10:06):
it was global, like open privacy. We would know that
it was directed to one of us because it would
be the only thing that showed up.
Speaker 1 (10:14):
On our wall. So this was making an assumption that
you were both checking on each other's Facebook pages. Oh,
we were, okay.
Speaker 3 (10:20):
We we were both obsessed with each other. So he
would post a song and then I would see it,
and I would post a song in return, and we
would rekindle things and.
Speaker 1 (10:32):
Get back together.
Speaker 3 (10:33):
So I have compiled the list of some of the
key moments in our relationship. In March twenty fifteen, and
Twana and I were just staring at each other, talking
or just stirring at each other or trying to figure
out if we could have an affair. He asked me
about kids. It was too much and I say, nevermind,
go back to your girlfriend. In March twenty fifth, twenty fifteen,
(10:56):
he posts a tame Impaula song the Less I Know
the Better cause by the bar, I showed my tight
in an apartment and we sleep together. After a bit
of that, he starts rethinking things and I got really
hurt by that. He texted me long texts in French.
I texted him long texts in English. Google Translate is
(11:18):
third wheeling hard and we stopped talking. On April ten,
he posted stand for by ty Dolla sign and it
did it for me and we and it got going again.
But then I got a little weird about and I
gave him a soft older met him, which is he
can't come over if he's still with a relationship with
someone that isn't me. After about a week, I caved
(11:40):
in and on April twenty fifth, twenty fifteen, I post
the Smiths, I know it's over. And then two days later,
on April twenty seventh, he posts Judy, don't go by
the dirty Fences, and it kept going throughout the relationship.
On January twenty sixth, twenty sixteen, and he posts Bamboo
(12:01):
by Elon Chankfau, to which I replied posting I know
it's over. On January thirty first, twenty sixteen. Our biggest
fight was when he finally left his girlfriend. I was
speaking French by then. He text us saying pomo de
diller bo and he was like, get me tickets for Israel.
I'm moving out. He would leave me homemade cookies outside
(12:24):
my door in the morning, like we really were finally
just him and I in a relationship without this you know,
third person existence. But as you were going closer and
closer to Israel departure date, he started to kind of
like fall apart again, and he was depressed and guilty
and insecure and had second thoughts about about us, about
going to Israel, and I was I was devastated, and
(12:45):
I was so tired at that point. I was such
an emotional wreck, and I just what I did that day,
I went to work and it just started sending him
YouTube links to Kitchi eighties songs like per hour for
about eight hours, and then afterwards they just sent him
total clip of the heart again and again and again,
(13:06):
like a fucking mediac. But I couldn't make him hear
how much that hurt me. But Bonnie did.
Speaker 1 (13:14):
He came to his room and.
Speaker 2 (13:29):
We'll be.
Speaker 1 (13:33):
It sounds like you guys had kind of the same
slow burning tension and a lack of communication that Nick
and Francis did.
Speaker 3 (13:40):
I mean, Nick is a better communicator, but yeah, for
Nick and Francis, we start to see that tension build
up while they're at Melissa's book launch.
Speaker 1 (13:50):
They look good together, don't they. I mean, they're a
good looking couple.
Speaker 4 (13:55):
They look right.
Speaker 2 (13:59):
If I was a burning building, it was only me
Nick and Melissa.
Speaker 1 (14:06):
He'd save her, wouldn't. I don't know, Francis, it's a
hypothetical question.
Speaker 4 (14:13):
But this is in this amazing green dress, and she
looks absolutely fabulous and just powerful, and she's the center
of attention. The red lipstick, and then you know, Francis
is in her little really quite cute pinafore dress, and
you know, I think the costumes were really really helpful
and really effective in accentuating those kind of moments and
(14:35):
the emotions that are going on there.
Speaker 1 (14:37):
The way they did this scene, you know, the way
it was shot, the sound, the writing, it feels really
authentic and also really inside of Francis's perspective. As the
episode progresses, I feel like it's so easy to go
along with Francis on her insecure jealous journey. She's hurting,
and so rather than talk about it or even really
(14:57):
examine it, she just gets kind of mean. She's trying
so hard not to be vulnerable, but she can't help it,
and it builds and builds and builds until she just explodes.
Speaker 6 (15:08):
I love a character that can kind of push you
that way. You know, you're not quite sure whether what
she's doing is right.
Speaker 1 (15:14):
This is producer Ginny Igo, but she's you.
Speaker 6 (15:17):
Also kind of can forgive it because she is just
growing up and making mistakes, and you kind of like
can relate. You can relate to that.
Speaker 4 (15:26):
The characters, the way that they talk to each other,
and the fact of being being so inside Francis's head
so fascinating. And the screenwriters on this show did such
a brilliant job of externalizing that so that you still
feel that you're really tied to her point of view.
It's like very subjective, but obviously without the need for
(15:48):
a horrible voice over.
Speaker 3 (15:51):
I think the god of scriptwriting that they did not
use a voiceover. That would have been really unfortunate.
Speaker 1 (15:59):
I totally agree. And actually another Irish project that came
out Belfast that movie. I loved that movie so much
except for the voiceover. It just really drove me crazy.
Voiceover really has the capacity to undermine a story. Oh
but sometimes a voiceover is necessary, like in this next story.
Speaker 5 (16:18):
At the time, I just moved to la and I
was just fresh off of a next year long relationship,
and I was ready to just date date, date, date, date,
and I went on conservatively. I went on one hundred
dates with people.
Speaker 1 (16:34):
This is my friend Catherine, remember her from episode two.
This story takes place many, many, many years after the
secret three way makeout sessions in drama school.
Speaker 5 (16:43):
I had so many good dates. They were all so fun.
I met so many nice people. Most of my I
didn't want to see it again, obviously, but you know,
it was just I was having a ball. I met
Sam even actually just in our brief text exchange on
the app and then off the app was showing it
to people going is that is it just me? Or
(17:03):
is this person just the perfect person for me? Am
I losing my mind? I don't want to lose my mind,
and that feeling of oh God, I'm a grown woman
and I think I'm following. Banana's in love with this
person and he's falling Banana's in love with me.
Speaker 1 (17:24):
It was their first Christmas as a couple. They'd only
been dating a couple months, and Sam had a great
idea for a Christmas present.
Speaker 5 (17:31):
He recorded his thought some feelings on top of the
Planet's so he would come in with an introduction with
some Glenn Miller playing beneath it, explaining what he was
going to do and that, and went through a list
of I'm not like regular playlist amount probably like twenty
(17:54):
songs or so important songs to him. But what I
loved about it was the cutting in and out. He
didn't let the songs play forever.
Speaker 3 (18:03):
You know.
Speaker 5 (18:04):
It was a particularly embarrassing song from his childhood, perhaps
a Limp Biscuit or something of that hill, and would
set the scene of where he was in his life.
When this song was important to him, who introduced it
to him, how it made him feel, what it was
like to listen to it now, just really took me
on a musical journey, and it was and he was
(18:27):
really good at it. And it was another another major
green flag for him that most of the artists on
this playlist were women. Do you know what I mean? Yes,
that he felt he felt a deep connection to Annie
DiFranco really wanted to talk about what her music meant
(18:50):
to him. You know, it's like, oh God, yes, give
me this guy.
Speaker 7 (18:55):
Well it's not just going where it's like a song,
but it's like it's like a ten minute long Oh
and it's called Serpentine.
Speaker 1 (19:03):
This is Sam. Obviously he and Catherine are still together.
Speaker 7 (19:07):
And I always you always want to like record a
mix d and you really want to, like when you're
in high school you record mix CDs and imagine that
people really understood what you event by it. And I
was like, well, that's like I want to do that,
but that's so silly and that never works. So I
just like basically made my own podcast version of like
walking somebody walking walking pattern through the experience of like
(19:31):
why these songs are not even particularly the best songs
that I know, but really like formative songs.
Speaker 5 (19:38):
I think, really what it is is that a lot
of times people.
Speaker 7 (19:43):
Want to show music and imagine that it's like going
to inspire the exact same emotions, and I'm like, that's
never that's never happened. I know that I the like art,
I like the movies, the music. It's like I connect
to it sometimes very specifically sense and I need to
like explain myself and that when other people do that
(20:04):
for me, it enhances the thing. You know, It's like
you could be some death metal band, but if somebody
can tell me what it is that they love about it,
what they the way that they find parts of themselves
in it, it enhances the experience.
Speaker 1 (20:18):
Listen, great job on that gift, Sam, Uh.
Speaker 6 (20:21):
Itredible worked out pretty well.
Speaker 5 (20:24):
They worked out incredibly well.
Speaker 2 (20:26):
This baby, Lucas read baby.
Speaker 1 (20:29):
She's so's durable, so round faced and beautiful and I
love her and a great outfit too.
Speaker 2 (20:38):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (20:39):
Sam and Catherine had a baby last year. Her name
is Sally.
Speaker 3 (21:00):
I know sat a show, don't know emmy all.
Speaker 1 (21:11):
This show is hosted and produced by me, Maggie Bowles
and me No I'm Gadweiser. It's written and edited by me,
with assistant editing by Noah Our. Supervising producer is Ryan Tillotson,
with help from Tyler Nielsen, Frank Driscoll, Nick Bailey and
the entire Straw Hut team. Theme music is by Maggie
Glass and Square Fish and big thanks to Aria Vishay,
Lauren Thorpe, Exavior Salas, and the Hulu team.
Speaker 5 (21:36):
Mag Smile
Speaker 3 (21:42):
Lest Hid, A Little Show pol
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