Nikki Little of Franco, a Detroit-based PR agency, joins us to talk about the importance of internal communications during times of crisis or rapid change—in other words, times like these.
Join Franco’s 5-Day Challenge and learn how to navigate uncertainty with strategic communication that builds trust, engagement and resilience.
Nikki shares tactical insights on building a culture where listening is prioritized alongside speaking, ensuring that every employee feels heard and valued. She highlights the importance of two-way communication channels and building trust to foster a collaborative workplace.
By integrating communication strategies at all times and not just during crises, organizations can enhance their internal relationships and navigate challenging times more effectively.
Read the transcript and notes for this episode on our website.
Key Takeaways
- Internal communications are crucial for maintaining employee trust within any organization, especially during uncertain times.
- Regular communication helps avoid a sense of surprise during crises, ensuring all employees are aligned with the company's mission and vision.
- Building a culture of listening and creating two-way communication channels enhances organizational transparency and trust.
- Encouraging feedback, acknowledging it, and acting on it where possible instills trust and shows employees that their input is valued.
- In-house communicators and their agency counterparts must empower leadership to facilitate open communication and promote a consistent and transparent organizational culture.
About the Guest
Nikki Little is a co-owner/co-shareholder and the chief marketing officer at Franco. She supports the agency’s strategic vision and growth strategy with a specific focus on new business and marketing alignment. Nikki also serves in a strategic advisor role for several client programs and supports future and current talent development. Since 2012, Nikki has published The MichComms Report, a bi-weekly e-newsletter for Michigan communications professionals. She’s also an Impact100 Oakland County member.
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Copper State of Mind, hosted by Abbie Fink and Dr. Adrian McIntyre, is a project of HMA Public Relations, a full-service...
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
(00:04):
One thing you can count onabout human beings: we're always
talking ... to ourselves aboutourselves, to each other about the
situation around us. We arenatural communicators. It's what
distinguishes our species.ndwhentimesare are great, we're talking
about what's good. When timesstruggletofindwaystoarticulatewhat we'redealingwith.Ouropinions,our
(00:26):
with, our opinions, our pointsof view. And for companies whose
human resources, the peoplethat make up your organization ...
internallyandexternally,thatreallymatter, especiallywhenthingsareuncertain.Abby,what'sonyourmind?ie
Well, the communications thatwe do on a regular basis when we
(00:48):
are advising our clients andwe are talking to them about how
they need to talk to theircustomers come so naturally to us
in our business. It's where wefocus a lot of our energy. It's certainly
one of our areas of expertise.And what I think gets lost in the
shuffle is the impact of thatcommunications on our internal audiences,
(01:12):
or lack of communication onour internal audiences, meaning our
employees and those importantto our business. And, you know, Adrian,
you and I talked about this atthe beginning of the year when we
returned the podcast to ourschedule was a about the world that
we were living in and howimportant it was for me to be able
to communicate to my team thatI heard them, that I understood them,
(01:35):
and that things might bechallenging, but let's, you know,
know that we honor and respecteach other. And quite honestly, that
was sort of where my endingwas of my employee communications
and which is not smart. Ishould practice a little bit more
about what I preach to my myclients. So I was intrigued when
about a week ago, I saw anemail from one of my colleagues at
(01:59):
our PRGN partner in Detroit,Franco, from Nikki Little, that said,
let's figure out how to dosome communications internally. And
I'm like, okay, I'm going toclick. It said challenge. I'm always
up for a challenge. So Iclicked on it and started receiving
these really powerful messagesabout the importance of communicating,
(02:20):
especially in times ofuncertainty and change. So I reached
out to Nikkindsaid,comeononandchatwithmea littlebit
aboutthis. about this. And shewas tomakesomeroominherscheduletodothat.
Sowhat'sonmy mindtodayisreallyabouttheimportanceof how,when,
(02:40):
andwhyweshouldbetalkingtoourinternalaudiences,maybe evenmoreso
intimesofuncertainty.So,Nikki,thankyoufor,first ofall,forsparkingtheconversation
viaemailandcomingontotalkaboutit.Butyouknow,thisissuchaninterestingdiscussionabout,youknow,weknowthe importanceofouremployees.Werecognizethemasimportantstakeholders,butwe
(03:07):
sometimesdon'tarmthemwithinformationtobethatforus.Andsojusttokindofkickitoffalittlebit,youknow,whatwasyourimpetusfor sort
ofthinkingaboutputtingthisemailprogramtogetherandreallysharingsomeofyourknowledgeoutthere forothers?But
whyit's becomeso importantto rememberourinternalteams.
(03:29):
Well, first, thank you forhaving me on the podcast. I am excited
to talk about this topicbecause it is something that is on
the mind of all communicatorsright now, hopefully on all the communicators
right now, of how do we notonly communicate well with our internal
teams, but then how are weadvising clients on the importance
of. Of internalcommunications? Internal communications
(03:52):
is important at all times, butI really fundamentally believe that
it is so vitally importantduring times of change, which is
what we're experiencing rightnow. We were talking before we started
recording the podcast of thatit doesn't matter what industry you're
in, right? Like, if you'repaying attention to the news, you're
aware there's tariffs going onright now, right? That's impacting
the automotive industry,that's impacting a lot of other industries,
(04:15):
but there's also AI that'simpacting every single industry and
every single role in some way,shape or form. So it doesn't matter
what role or industry you'rein right now. I guarantee that every
company, every person is. Isfeeling that pinch of. There's. There's
some change going on rightnow, and it's bigger and it's broader
(04:36):
in certain industries than inothers. But again, I feel like, you
know, couple years ago, fiveyears ago now, we all went through
this, this global pandemic,right? And we all had to change how
we're communicating, how we'redoing things. Marketing plans got
totally destroyed. Right nowwe're in another era of change, and.
And it looks different, butit's the same kind of fundamental
(04:59):
principles of how do weprioritize communications and particularly
with our internal teams duringtimes of change. So we've been talking
a lot about it, a lot as aleadership team at Franco. Communicating
with our team members is themost utmost, utmost important goal
for us because they are ourmost important stakeholders. We don't
(05:22):
do the work. The clients don'tget the magic if we don't have a
great team, right? So if weare not communicating well with them,
if we're not keeping themupdated, Motivated, inspired and
informed. They're not going tobring their best selves to the work
that they do for our clients.So we've always viewed our team members
as our most importantstakeholders. So we've been thinking
(05:45):
about how do we kind ofthrough our work that we're doing
with our clients, through someof our marketing initiatives that
we're doing for the agency,how are we putting that concept out
there and helping othercompanies understand this is very
important. And here are somekind of tips, tools, resources that
you can use if you believe inthe fundamental importance of internal
(06:07):
comms right now. But maybeyou're stuck and not quite sure the
best way to do it. Maybe youhave leadership that aren't doing
it in the right way, but you,as the comms leader, want to help
guide them and shape them tobe better communicators for the internal
team. So that's kind of how itcame about. And how this also started
is we are big firm believersof taking an owned piece of content
(06:31):
and reworking that fordifferent channels. Abbie, I know
you're very familiar with thePESO model and Spin Sucks and that
beautiful framework that GiniDietrich created. So we live and
breathe by that with ourclients. So we kind of practice what
we preach with taking an ownedpiece of content, which was an article
that I wrote for ForbesCommunications Council. I contribute
(06:53):
content there every quarter orso. And we said, okay, this is great,
right? It has a lot in it.What can we do with this? How can
we kind of chop it up and useit for other purposes? So from there,
that turned into thisnavigating uncertainty quiz and how
prepared are you tocommunicate during change and navigate
(07:14):
uncertainty? And then we said,well, why don't we take this and
break it off a little bitmore? And then that's where this
five day communicationschallenge came in.
Great. And let's talk a littlebit about the specific tips and tricks.
But one of the things that wasinteresting in what in your opening
here that, that I strugglewith, you know, as a small business
owner and wanting to betransparent with my team and keeping
(07:40):
them apprised of what'shappening at a business level. Right.
The conversations that are notabout how are we servicing our clients.
That is a very easyconversation to have. It's the conversations
around the financial impact ofwhat's happening or the, you know,
(08:02):
we wholeheartedly respect thedifferent views that all of us bring
to the table. What's the rightplace for those conversations to
happen? Should they happen inthe workplace? Is it my place as
an owner to encourage thosekind of different dialogues or do
I need to somehow guide themin a different direction that is
(08:26):
maybe not appropriate to betalking about? Politics, religion,
viewpoint on what's happeningin the Middle East. Pick a topic.
It's highly charged. And Ithink that's one of the challenges
that I face on a regular basisis wanting to be as transparent as
possible, wanting to keep theconversations going, but also recognizing
(08:49):
that do I need to burden myteam with things that aren't going
to. Well, my view may not makethem better at what they're doing.
And does it give them undue anunnecessary uncertainty if I bring
them into too much of the dayto day impacts that's happening in
the business? I don't have ananswer for it. So it's, you know,
(09:11):
it's a challenge, I think.
Yeah. And that's gonna varydepending on each company, right.
Like a small to mid-sizedbusiness. So our team, we're about
30ish team memberscommunicating with our team and the
level of information andtransparency that we can share is
different than a company thathas tens of thousands of people.
Right. So that kind of processof sharing information, that level
(09:35):
of information that can beshared first with employees before
it is shared with boards orstakeholders or investors, like that's
different. So I'm not evengoing to touch the big conglomerates
of the world. I'll focus moreon the small to midsize businesses.
But I think it's really theway you figure that out is knowing
your team and knowing thetypes of things, like anticipating
(09:56):
the questions that they'regoing to have depending on whatever
challenge it is that you'refacing, whatever the uncertainty
is. But you have to know yourteams well to be able to anticipate
those challenges or toanticipate those questions. Because
then again, to your point, ifyou don't, then you're sitting there
going, well, I don't know howmuch information I should share,
right? Like maybe I'm sharingtoo much, maybe I'm sharing too little.
(10:20):
With us, we always take theapproach of let's share a little
bit more. And that way we are,you know, at least being open and
transparent and not leavingpeople with more questions after
we communicate something orafter we share a piece of information.
But there's also that linewhere we're like, well we, we know
we can't share everything,right? Like we can't share every
(10:43):
little decision, we can'tshare every kind of scenario that
we looked at. And, and I thinkthat kind of goes to, to Trust with
your team. If you've builttrust, and this is important to do
before you're in an uncertaintime. Right. Ideally, if you're in
a challenging time or anuncertain situation, you already
have trust with your team. Soeven though they may not have an
(11:05):
every single detail about howyou came to a decision, if you share
enough information with them,if you're honest, if you're transparent,
then if that trust is alreadyestablished, they don't have to have
every single piece of detailsthey know. I'm getting the information
that is most important for meto have. I feel prepared, I feel,
I feel good. I know what Ineed to know. But I trust that my
(11:28):
leaders are making the right decision.
And I think the hierarchythere in terms of how it's communicated
and by whom is also importantas well, right? I mean, if you are
an organization that has amanagement team and then that team
has, you know, direct reports,it's the discussions that take place
amongst the leadership.
(11:48):
Yes.
And then empowering them tohave those conversations into the
team. And then, you know,we're a small team, we're five, so
they there, they all haveaccess to each other. We're not,
we don't have a huge, youknow, differential, but in some larger,
larger than us, organizationscertainly do. But I think the, the
(12:09):
part there on that trustfactor, and we've talked a lot about
that on this podcast, is thatthat is the number one, to me, important
part of this becauseregardless of what you're going to
be sharing, good news,challenging news, even if it's, "I
don't know yet, this is whatwe're looking at."
Yes.
That fact that you have thetrust and that they trust you to
(12:32):
be open and honest and thatyou will share with them at such
point that it's appropriate todo so.
Correct.
And giving your managementteam, those that are going to be
helping you to deploy thatinformation, you know, empower them
to know they can do it.
Yes.
And are speaking on yourbehalf, but with the full support
of ownership to do it.
(12:54):
Absolutely. And that's theexact way that we approach things
at Franco too. And I, I wouldhope and I advocate for other small
to midsize businesses thatkind of have that, that layer of,
you know, top management,leadership team, maybe middle management
and then more of kind of yourjunior entry level team members who
are working their way up tosome sort of management role. But
(13:16):
before we roll anything outcommunications wide to our agency,
we talk to our leadership teamfirst because they have great feedback.
There are things that theybring to us that we might not have
thought of, or we suggestpositioning something in a certain
way and they're like, hey, youknow what? We should think about
this. And we're like, great,that's awesome. So while there always
have to be the decision makersat the top of the company that really,
(13:39):
it's on, it's on them to makesure that they're running the business,
they're making the rightdecisions. If you have a team of
leaders who you are empoweringto kind of help you carry the mission,
vision, communications forwardwith other team members, you. They
have to have buy in. Right.They have to fundamentally believe
in going back to that wordtrust. They have to trust in that
(14:00):
direction. And the way you dothat is involving them along, along
the way. So it's. Instead ofthe. This is what we're saying, this
is how we're doing it. We needyou all to be on board. We need you
to communicate things thisexact way. Instead of pushing messaging
at them that they may havesome questions about or they may
not fully believe in, we'reinvolving them in the conversation.
(14:22):
And you know, again, at theend of the day, there might be something
that they don't really like.Right. But it's a decision that the
leaders at the top kind ofhave to make because they have the
best interest of the businessin mind. Which again, kind of goes
in having the employees bestinterest in mind too. Right. It goes
hand in hand. But I think whatyou said about kind of having the
leadership team on board is sofundamentally important when you're
(14:44):
communicating anything.Because if they're not bought into
it, if they're not trustingwhat you're saying, how are you supposed
to expect them to then go outand kind of funnel that same message
to other team members?
This reminds me when I was inhigh school and college and I worked
for, in retail and we alwayshad, you know, the, the customer
suggestion box, you know, andpeople would put. And we had one
(15:08):
for the employees and one forcustomers. And you know, once a month
someone would take thosethings out of the box and they would
never be looked at again. Weall thought we were contributing
and we had some great ideas.And it was probably, you know, things
like we need to have, youknow, Fridays off and a pool party
on Saturday. But it was oursuggestions and we wanted management
to know none of those ever gotlooked at or taken advantage of.
(15:31):
And it, and it. I wasn't smartenough at that point to say, oh,
and it eroded my trust in management.
Right. But it did!
To some extent, it probablydid. And I think the value in having
this placeandcertainlywherewearerightnowinthislotofunknownsandalot ofchangingdialogues
(15:52):
andthingsthatarehappeningtousthatrequiresustoreactisraising thisconversation
front andcenter.Butthetruthisthistypeof conversation,internal
communicationsisimportant atanypointinyourbusinessstrategy.
Absolutely.
That the time to start openlycommunicating is not when you're
(16:17):
in the midst of a crisis orsomething. Correct. Because at that
point you're building, you'restarting from scratch. And so a lot
of this, you know, to me therecommendations and such are really
about at any point in abusiness where and when do you bring
in your team? How do youcommunicate the types of things that
are, you know, critical forthem to understand so that they get
(16:41):
the mission and the vision ofyour organization? They, to me, they
know their role in helping youimpact and move that forward.
Right.
That it is, if we're doing itright, a team effort in that no matter
where you are in theorganizational structure, your commitment
(17:02):
to and understanding of whatwe're trying to do as leaders, as
owners and managers is equallyas important. We can't do our vision
and mission if we don't havethe buy in from our team members.
And we get that, I believe, bylooping them in at what point makes
the most sense. But not justwhen we're talking about uncertainty
(17:26):
or challenging times, but it'sall the time.
Yes, absolutely. Because likeyou said, if company leadership only
take the approach ofprioritizing internal communications,
when something's wrong orthere's a challenge, then I don't
think that is the best way tobuild trust among your teams. Right.
Because then it's like, okay,here we go. They're only talking
(17:47):
to us now because this problemis going on or we're having this
issue. Right. But if you're,if you're constantly prioritizing
communication with your teamsand you've built that culture of
trust and, and kind of careand empathy and vulnerability and
transparency. That's the norm,right? They're used to it. So then
(18:07):
when you are communicatingmaybe at a different level or with
a different tone or urgency,if there is change, then it's not
abnormal from, for the team tohear from leaders to have be, to
be receiving information.It's, it's just part of the culture.
Right. So, and I think the,again, like you said, the, the buy
in and the understanding oflike, okay, I know my role that I
(18:30):
play in this because I'm usedto getting transparent communication
from my leadership that goesso much further than someone who's
like, well, I haven't heardfrom our CEO or president in six
months since the last townhall and now I'm hearing for them.
But how am I supposed to trustthat what this person is saying or
what they're asking me to dois really in my best interest?
Nikki, one of the things thatI'm fond of pointing out when I lead
(18:52):
communication workshops orwork with leaders on their executive
communications is thatlistening is the primary skill, the
foundational skill incommunication. You know, it was one
of the Stoics who said""wehave two ears and one mouth and
we should use them in that proportion.
Right.
And I'm curious about theother side of this because it's so
(19:13):
easy to make internal comms beabout what we're going to say, right?
When, and how, and how will weframe what we say.
Yes.
But the other side of it isreally interesting. And I'm reminded,
there's a quote which ismisattributed to George Bernard Shaw,
but it's really important. Itcomes from an article that was published
in the 50s called "Is AnybodyListening?" The quote is: "The great
(19:35):
enemy of communication, wefind, is the illusion of it. We have
talked enough, but we have notlistened. And notlistening,wehavefailed
toconcedetheimmensecomplexityofoursociety. And
society." That's SO relevantto what you're talking about right
now! How do you create aculture of listening in an organization,
(19:59):
such that not only isleadership being
Yeah. So we talk about this alittle bit in one of the emails in
the Challenge, but it'screating the two-way channels, not
just broadcasting information,but establishing mechanisms or processes
for employees to ask questionsand provide feedback. That's super
(20:22):
critical, especiallyarealittleunstable. Right. are a
little unstable, right? Soit's,it'simportantthat quickly. So
it's importantwhereagain,aleaderisspeaking atthattheyare,youknow,sharingwhattheyneedtoshare,butthenopeningthatup
forthattwowayconversation.Sothenextstepof that
isyoucanlisten.Right.Butwhat'sthefollowupafterthat?Soactionsspeak just
(20:45):
as you can listen, right?that'sanothercritical up after that?
Actions speak just as loud aswords. And I think that's tocounselandadviseourleaderson.Ifyou'regettingfeedback,youmightnotbeabletomakeeverychange.
it is that we have to counseland advise our leaders on. If you're
getting feedback, you mightnot be able to make every change.
(21:07):
Right. You know, Abbie, yougave the example of the suggestion
box and okay, yeah, so youknow, we can't do everything. But
if you are saying we arecreating a culture of not only listening
but taking feedback and thenacting on the things that we can
act on, ifSoagain,it'snotaleader'sjobtobeabletodoeverythingthateverybodyisaskingfor.Thatdoesn'talwaysmakesense.Right.Youstillhavetokeepthemostimportantprioritiesforthebusinessandkindofthevision,themission, done
(21:39):
about it? So again, it's not aleader's job to be able to do everything
that everybody is asking for.That doesn't always make sense. You
still have to keep the mostimportant priorities for the business
and kind of the vision, themission, the long term goals in mind.
(22:01):
thecounsel,butmyleadersare,they'renotgoingtolisten.Right.Orthey'renot,they'llsaythey'regoingtolisten,butthey'renotgoingtoactonit.Well,thenIwouldsayyoushouldn't that's
definitely part of the role.And I think a challenge too is some
internal comms leaders mightsay, "it doesn't matter what I say.
Like, I'll provide thecounsel, but my leaders are, they're
(22:22):
not going to listen. Or"they'llsay they're going to listen,
but they're not going to acton it.Well,r?
Well, and that full circletransparency, right, that I am going
to, as the leader share withyou important information about our
organization, good, bad orotherwise, on a regular cadence.
(22:46):
You know that there's anopportunity for these dialogues to
happen. You will hear fromyour managers as they carry through
some of the things that we'vebeen discussing. You have the opportunity
to share feedback with yourmanagers or with whatever the funnel
is that will make it up to toplevel to be evaluated, reminding
(23:07):
them that not every suggestionis doable, but every suggestion is
important and we want to hearthem. And then it's really then sort
of demonstrating thatculturally throughout the organization
so that you live by thosewords. As you said, actions speak
louder than words so that we,we show that we've taken advantage.
(23:28):
And I think to somewhereanideaisbeingimplemented thatcamefromyour
team,it'sacknowledgingthatwe'redoingthisbecausewe heard
from somanyofyouandthisisimportant.
Yes.
And the impact that that'sgoing to have. And if the bottom
line in all of this isestablishing and maintaining that
(23:51):
trust, that give and take isso important. And that's any relationship,
right? That's friendship,that's spouse, you know, significant
others. It's not just the workplace.
Right.
But if I listen to you, youlisten to me, together we come up
with a solution. We're in amuch better place to be able to handle
any sort of uncertainty thatmight present itself.
(24:12):
Yes. Trust is the foundationof every relationship, whether it's
personal, whether it'sprofessional, whether it's blended.
If that trust is not noamountofcommunicatingisgoingtogoanywhere.
Thanks for listening to thisepisode of Copper State of Mind.
If you enjoyed theconversation, please share it with
(24:33):
a colleague who might alsofind this podcast valuable. It's
easy to do, just click the"Share" button in the app you're
listening to now to pass italong. You can also follow Copper
State of Mind in ApplePodcasts, Spotify, or any other podcast
app. We publish new episodesevery other Friday. Copper State
(24:53):
of Mind is brought to you byHMA Public Relations, the oldest
continuously operating PR firmin Arizona. The show is recorded
and produced by the team atSpeed of Story, a B2B communications
firm in Phoenix, anddistributed by PHX.fm, the leading
independent B2B podcastnetwork in Arizona. For all of us
(25:14):
here at Speed of story andPHX.fm I'm Adrian McIntyre. Thanks
for listening and for sharingthe show with others if you choose
to do so. We hope you'll joinus again for another episode of Copper
State of Mind.
One thing you can count onabout human beings: we're always
talking ... to ourselves aboutourselves, to each other about the
situation around us. We arenatural communicators. It's what
distinguishes our species.ndwhentimesare are great, we're talking
about what's good. When timesstruggletofindwaystoarticulatewhat we'redealingwith.Ouropinions,our
(00:26):
with, our opinions, our pointsof view. And for companies whose
human resources, the peoplethat make up your organization ...
internallyandexternally,thatreallymatter, especiallywhenthingsareuncertain.Abby,what'sonyourmind?ie
Well, the communications thatwe do on a regular basis when we
(00:48):
are advising our clients andwe are talking to them about how
they need to talk to theircustomers come so naturally to us
in our business. It's where wefocus a lot of our energy. It's certainly
one of our areas of expertise.And what I think gets lost in the
shuffle is the impact of thatcommunications on our internal audiences,
(01:12):
or lack of communication onour internal audiences, meaning our
employees and those importantto our business. And, you know, Adrian,
you and I talked about this atthe beginning of the year when we
returned the podcast to ourschedule was a about the world that
we were living in and howimportant it was for me to be able
to communicate to my team thatI heard them, that I understood them,
(01:35):
and that things might bechallenging, but let's, you know,
know that we honor and respecteach other. And quite honestly, that
was sort of where my endingwas of my employee communications
and which is not smart. Ishould practice a little bit more
about what I preach to my myclients. So I was intrigued when
about a week ago, I saw anemail from one of my colleagues at
(01:59):
our PRGN partner in Detroit,Franco, from Nikki Little, that said,
let's figure out how to dosome communications internally. And
I'm like, okay, I'm going toclick. It said challenge. I'm always
up for a challenge. So Iclicked on it and started receiving
these really powerful messagesabout the importance of communicating,
(02:20):
especially in times ofuncertainty and change. So I reached
out to Nikkindsaid,comeononandchatwithmea littlebit
aboutthis. about this. And shewas tomakesomeroominherscheduletodothat.
Sowhat'sonmy mindtodayisreallyabouttheimportanceof how,when,
(02:40):
andwhyweshouldbetalkingtoourinternalaudiences,maybe evenmoreso
intimesofuncertainty.So,Nikki,thankyoufor,first ofall,forsparkingtheconversation
viaemailandcomingontotalkaboutit.Butyouknow,thisissuchaninterestingdiscussionabout,youknow,weknowthe importanceofouremployees.Werecognizethemasimportantstakeholders,butwe
(03:07):
sometimesdon'tarmthemwithinformationtobethatforus.Andsojusttokindofkickitoffalittlebit,youknow,whatwasyourimpetusfor sort
ofthinkingaboutputtingthisemailprogramtogetherandreallysharingsomeofyourknowledgeoutthere forothers?But
whyit's becomeso importantto rememberourinternalteams.
(03:29):
Well, first, thank you forhaving me on the podcast. I am excited
to talk about this topicbecause it is something that is on
the mind of all communicatorsright now, hopefully on all the communicators
right now, of how do we notonly communicate well with our internal
teams, but then how are weadvising clients on the importance
of. Of internalcommunications? Internal communications
(03:52):
is important at all times, butI really fundamentally believe that
it is so vitally importantduring times of change, which is
what we're experiencing rightnow. We were talking before we started
recording the podcast of thatit doesn't matter what industry you're
in, right? Like, if you'repaying attention to the news, you're
aware there's tariffs going onright now, right? That's impacting
the automotive industry,that's impacting a lot of other industries,
(04:15):
but there's also AI that'simpacting every single industry and
every single role in some way,shape or form. So it doesn't matter
what role or industry you'rein right now. I guarantee that every
company, every person is. Isfeeling that pinch of. There's. There's
some change going on rightnow, and it's bigger and it's broader
(04:36):
in certain industries than inothers. But again, I feel like, you
know, couple years ago, fiveyears ago now, we all went through
this, this global pandemic,right? And we all had to change how
we're communicating, how we'redoing things. Marketing plans got
totally destroyed. Right nowwe're in another era of change, and.
And it looks different, butit's the same kind of fundamental
(04:59):
principles of how do weprioritize communications and particularly
with our internal teams duringtimes of change. So we've been talking
a lot about it, a lot as aleadership team at Franco. Communicating
with our team members is themost utmost, utmost important goal
for us because they are ourmost important stakeholders. We don't
(05:22):
do the work. The clients don'tget the magic if we don't have a
great team, right? So if weare not communicating well with them,
if we're not keeping themupdated, Motivated, inspired and
informed. They're not going tobring their best selves to the work
that they do for our clients.So we've always viewed our team members
as our most importantstakeholders. So we've been thinking
(05:45):
about how do we kind ofthrough our work that we're doing
with our clients, through someof our marketing initiatives that
we're doing for the agency,how are we putting that concept out
there and helping othercompanies understand this is very
important. And here are somekind of tips, tools, resources that
you can use if you believe inthe fundamental importance of internal
(06:07):
comms right now. But maybeyou're stuck and not quite sure the
best way to do it. Maybe youhave leadership that aren't doing
it in the right way, but you,as the comms leader, want to help
guide them and shape them tobe better communicators for the internal
team. So that's kind of how itcame about. And how this also started
is we are big firm believersof taking an owned piece of content
(06:31):
and reworking that fordifferent channels. Abbie, I know
you're very familiar with thePESO model and Spin Sucks and that
beautiful framework that GiniDietrich created. So we live and
breathe by that with ourclients. So we kind of practice what
we preach with taking an ownedpiece of content, which was an article
that I wrote for ForbesCommunications Council. I contribute
(06:53):
content there every quarter orso. And we said, okay, this is great,
right? It has a lot in it.What can we do with this? How can
we kind of chop it up and useit for other purposes? So from there,
that turned into thisnavigating uncertainty quiz and how
prepared are you tocommunicate during change and navigate
(07:14):
uncertainty? And then we said,well, why don't we take this and
break it off a little bitmore? And then that's where this
five day communicationschallenge came in.
Great. And let's talk a littlebit about the specific tips and tricks.
But one of the things that wasinteresting in what in your opening
here that, that I strugglewith, you know, as a small business
owner and wanting to betransparent with my team and keeping
(07:40):
them apprised of what'shappening at a business level. Right.
The conversations that are notabout how are we servicing our clients.
That is a very easyconversation to have. It's the conversations
around the financial impact ofwhat's happening or the, you know,
(08:02):
we wholeheartedly respect thedifferent views that all of us bring
to the table. What's the rightplace for those conversations to
happen? Should they happen inthe workplace? Is it my place as
an owner to encourage thosekind of different dialogues or do
I need to somehow guide themin a different direction that is
(08:26):
maybe not appropriate to betalking about? Politics, religion,
viewpoint on what's happeningin the Middle East. Pick a topic.
It's highly charged. And Ithink that's one of the challenges
that I face on a regular basisis wanting to be as transparent as
possible, wanting to keep theconversations going, but also recognizing
(08:49):
that do I need to burden myteam with things that aren't going
to. Well, my view may not makethem better at what they're doing.
And does it give them undue anunnecessary uncertainty if I bring
them into too much of the dayto day impacts that's happening in
the business? I don't have ananswer for it. So it's, you know,
(09:11):
it's a challenge, I think.
Yeah. And that's gonna varydepending on each company, right.
Like a small to mid-sizedbusiness. So our team, we're about
30ish team memberscommunicating with our team and the
level of information andtransparency that we can share is
different than a company thathas tens of thousands of people.
Right. So that kind of processof sharing information, that level
(09:35):
of information that can beshared first with employees before
it is shared with boards orstakeholders or investors, like that's
different. So I'm not evengoing to touch the big conglomerates
of the world. I'll focus moreon the small to midsize businesses.
But I think it's really theway you figure that out is knowing
your team and knowing thetypes of things, like anticipating
(09:56):
the questions that they'regoing to have depending on whatever
challenge it is that you'refacing, whatever the uncertainty
is. But you have to know yourteams well to be able to anticipate
those challenges or toanticipate those questions. Because
then again, to your point, ifyou don't, then you're sitting there
going, well, I don't know howmuch information I should share,
right? Like maybe I'm sharingtoo much, maybe I'm sharing too little.
(10:20):
With us, we always take theapproach of let's share a little
bit more. And that way we are,you know, at least being open and
transparent and not leavingpeople with more questions after
we communicate something orafter we share a piece of information.
But there's also that linewhere we're like, well we, we know
we can't share everything,right? Like we can't share every
(10:43):
little decision, we can'tshare every kind of scenario that
we looked at. And, and I thinkthat kind of goes to, to Trust with
your team. If you've builttrust, and this is important to do
before you're in an uncertaintime. Right. Ideally, if you're in
a challenging time or anuncertain situation, you already
have trust with your team. Soeven though they may not have an
(11:05):
every single detail about howyou came to a decision, if you share
enough information with them,if you're honest, if you're transparent,
then if that trust is alreadyestablished, they don't have to have
every single piece of detailsthey know. I'm getting the information
that is most important for meto have. I feel prepared, I feel,
I feel good. I know what Ineed to know. But I trust that my
(11:28):
leaders are making the right decision.
And I think the hierarchythere in terms of how it's communicated
and by whom is also importantas well, right? I mean, if you are
an organization that has amanagement team and then that team
has, you know, direct reports,it's the discussions that take place
amongst the leadership.
(11:48):
Yes.
And then empowering them tohave those conversations into the
team. And then, you know,we're a small team, we're five, so
they there, they all haveaccess to each other. We're not,
we don't have a huge, youknow, differential, but in some larger,
larger than us, organizationscertainly do. But I think the, the
(12:09):
part there on that trustfactor, and we've talked a lot about
that on this podcast, is thatthat is the number one, to me, important
part of this becauseregardless of what you're going to
be sharing, good news,challenging news, even if it's, "I
don't know yet, this is whatwe're looking at."
Yes.
That fact that you have thetrust and that they trust you to
(12:32):
be open and honest and thatyou will share with them at such
point that it's appropriate todo so.
Correct.
And giving your managementteam, those that are going to be
helping you to deploy thatinformation, you know, empower them
to know they can do it.
Yes.
And are speaking on yourbehalf, but with the full support
of ownership to do it.
(12:54):
Absolutely. And that's theexact way that we approach things
at Franco too. And I, I wouldhope and I advocate for other small
to midsize businesses thatkind of have that, that layer of,
you know, top management,leadership team, maybe middle management
and then more of kind of yourjunior entry level team members who
are working their way up tosome sort of management role. But
(13:16):
before we roll anything outcommunications wide to our agency,
we talk to our leadership teamfirst because they have great feedback.
There are things that theybring to us that we might not have
thought of, or we suggestpositioning something in a certain
way and they're like, hey, youknow what? We should think about
this. And we're like, great,that's awesome. So while there always
have to be the decision makersat the top of the company that really,
(13:39):
it's on, it's on them to makesure that they're running the business,
they're making the rightdecisions. If you have a team of
leaders who you are empoweringto kind of help you carry the mission,
vision, communications forwardwith other team members, you. They
have to have buy in. Right.They have to fundamentally believe
in going back to that wordtrust. They have to trust in that
(14:00):
direction. And the way you dothat is involving them along, along
the way. So it's. Instead ofthe. This is what we're saying, this
is how we're doing it. We needyou all to be on board. We need you
to communicate things thisexact way. Instead of pushing messaging
at them that they may havesome questions about or they may
not fully believe in, we'reinvolving them in the conversation.
(14:22):
And you know, again, at theend of the day, there might be something
that they don't really like.Right. But it's a decision that the
leaders at the top kind ofhave to make because they have the
best interest of the businessin mind. Which again, kind of goes
in having the employees bestinterest in mind too. Right. It goes
hand in hand. But I think whatyou said about kind of having the
leadership team on board is sofundamentally important when you're
(14:44):
communicating anything.Because if they're not bought into
it, if they're not trustingwhat you're saying, how are you supposed
to expect them to then go outand kind of funnel that same message
to other team members?
This reminds me when I was inhigh school and college and I worked
for, in retail and we alwayshad, you know, the, the customer
suggestion box, you know, andpeople would put. And we had one
(15:08):
for the employees and one forcustomers. And you know, once a month
someone would take thosethings out of the box and they would
never be looked at again. Weall thought we were contributing
and we had some great ideas.And it was probably, you know, things
like we need to have, youknow, Fridays off and a pool party
on Saturday. But it was oursuggestions and we wanted management
to know none of those ever gotlooked at or taken advantage of.
(15:31):
And it, and it. I wasn't smartenough at that point to say, oh,
and it eroded my trust in management.
Right. But it did!
To some extent, it probablydid. And I think the value in having
this placeandcertainlywherewearerightnowinthislotofunknownsandalot ofchangingdialogues
(15:52):
andthingsthatarehappeningtousthatrequiresustoreactisraising thisconversation
front andcenter.Butthetruthisthistypeof conversation,internal
communicationsisimportant atanypointinyourbusinessstrategy.
Absolutely.
That the time to start openlycommunicating is not when you're
(16:17):
in the midst of a crisis orsomething. Correct. Because at that
point you're building, you'restarting from scratch. And so a lot
of this, you know, to me therecommendations and such are really
about at any point in abusiness where and when do you bring
in your team? How do youcommunicate the types of things that
are, you know, critical forthem to understand so that they get
(16:41):
the mission and the vision ofyour organization? They, to me, they
know their role in helping youimpact and move that forward.
Right.
That it is, if we're doing itright, a team effort in that no matter
where you are in theorganizational structure, your commitment
(17:02):
to and understanding of whatwe're trying to do as leaders, as
owners and managers is equallyas important. We can't do our vision
and mission if we don't havethe buy in from our team members.
And we get that, I believe, bylooping them in at what point makes
the most sense. But not justwhen we're talking about uncertainty
(17:26):
or challenging times, but it'sall the time.
Yes, absolutely. Because likeyou said, if company leadership only
take the approach ofprioritizing internal communications,
when something's wrong orthere's a challenge, then I don't
think that is the best way tobuild trust among your teams. Right.
Because then it's like, okay,here we go. They're only talking
(17:47):
to us now because this problemis going on or we're having this
issue. Right. But if you're,if you're constantly prioritizing
communication with your teamsand you've built that culture of
trust and, and kind of careand empathy and vulnerability and
transparency. That's the norm,right? They're used to it. So then
(18:07):
when you are communicatingmaybe at a different level or with
a different tone or urgency,if there is change, then it's not
abnormal from, for the team tohear from leaders to have be, to
be receiving information.It's, it's just part of the culture.
Right. So, and I think the,again, like you said, the, the buy
in and the understanding oflike, okay, I know my role that I
(18:30):
play in this because I'm usedto getting transparent communication
from my leadership that goesso much further than someone who's
like, well, I haven't heardfrom our CEO or president in six
months since the last townhall and now I'm hearing for them.
But how am I supposed to trustthat what this person is saying or
what they're asking me to dois really in my best interest?
Nikki, one of the things thatI'm fond of pointing out when I lead
(18:52):
communication workshops orwork with leaders on their executive
communications is thatlistening is the primary skill, the
foundational skill incommunication. You know, it was one
of the Stoics who said""wehave two ears and one mouth and
we should use them in that proportion.
Right.
And I'm curious about theother side of this because it's so
(19:13):
easy to make internal comms beabout what we're going to say, right?
When, and how, and how will weframe what we say.
Yes.
But the other side of it isreally interesting. And I'm reminded,
there's a quote which ismisattributed to George Bernard Shaw,
but it's really important. Itcomes from an article that was published
in the 50s called "Is AnybodyListening?" The quote is: "The great
(19:35):
enemy of communication, wefind, is the illusion of it. We have
talked enough, but we have notlistened. And notlistening,wehavefailed
toconcedetheimmensecomplexityofoursociety. And
society." That's SO relevantto what you're talking about right
now! How do you create aculture of listening in an organization,
(19:59):
such that not only isleadership being
Yeah. So we talk about this alittle bit in one of the emails in
the Challenge, but it'screating the two-way channels, not
just broadcasting information,but establishing mechanisms or processes
for employees to ask questionsand provide feedback. That's super
(20:22):
critical, especiallyarealittleunstable. Right. are a
little unstable, right? Soit's,it'simportantthat quickly. So
it's importantwhereagain,aleaderisspeaking atthattheyare,youknow,sharingwhattheyneedtoshare,butthenopeningthatup
forthattwowayconversation.Sothenextstepof that
isyoucanlisten.Right.Butwhat'sthefollowupafterthat?Soactionsspeak just
(20:45):
as you can listen, right?that'sanothercritical up after that?
Actions speak just as loud aswords. And I think that's tocounselandadviseourleaderson.Ifyou'regettingfeedback,youmightnotbeabletomakeeverychange.
it is that we have to counseland advise our leaders on. If you're
getting feedback, you mightnot be able to make every change.
(21:07):
Right. You know, Abbie, yougave the example of the suggestion
box and okay, yeah, so youknow, we can't do everything. But
if you are saying we arecreating a culture of not only listening
but taking feedback and thenacting on the things that we can
act on, ifSoagain,it'snotaleader'sjobtobeabletodoeverythingthateverybodyisaskingfor.Thatdoesn'talwaysmakesense.Right.Youstillhavetokeepthemostimportantprioritiesforthebusinessandkindofthevision,themission, done
(21:39):
about it? So again, it's not aleader's job to be able to do everything
that everybody is asking for.That doesn't always make sense. You
still have to keep the mostimportant priorities for the business
and kind of the vision, themission, the long term goals in mind.
(22:01):
thecounsel,butmyleadersare,they'renotgoingtolisten.Right.Orthey'renot,they'llsaythey'regoingtolisten,butthey'renotgoingtoactonit.Well,thenIwouldsayyoushouldn't that's
definitely part of the role.And I think a challenge too is some
internal comms leaders mightsay, "it doesn't matter what I say.
Like, I'll provide thecounsel, but my leaders are, they're
(22:22):
not going to listen. Or"they'llsay they're going to listen,
but they're not going to acton it.Well,r?
Well, and that full circletransparency, right, that I am going
to, as the leader share withyou important information about our
organization, good, bad orotherwise, on a regular cadence.
(22:46):
You know that there's anopportunity for these dialogues to
happen. You will hear fromyour managers as they carry through
some of the things that we'vebeen discussing. You have the opportunity
to share feedback with yourmanagers or with whatever the funnel
is that will make it up to toplevel to be evaluated, reminding
(23:07):
them that not every suggestionis doable, but every suggestion is
important and we want to hearthem. And then it's really then sort
of demonstrating thatculturally throughout the organization
so that you live by thosewords. As you said, actions speak
louder than words so that we,we show that we've taken advantage.
(23:28):
And I think to somewhereanideaisbeingimplemented thatcamefromyour
team,it'sacknowledgingthatwe'redoingthisbecausewe heard
from somanyofyouandthisisimportant.
Yes.
And the impact that that'sgoing to have. And if the bottom
line in all of this isestablishing and maintaining that
(23:51):
trust, that give and take isso important. And that's any relationship,
right? That's friendship,that's spouse, you know, significant
others. It's not just the workplace.
Right.
But if I listen to you, youlisten to me, together we come up
with a solution. We're in amuch better place to be able to handle
any sort of uncertainty thatmight present itself.
(24:12):
Yes. Trust is the foundationof every relationship, whether it's
personal, whether it'sprofessional, whether it's blended.
If that trust is not noamountofcommunicatingisgoingtogoanywhere.
Thanks for listening to thisepisode of Copper State of Mind.
If you enjoyed theconversation, please share it with
(24:33):
a colleague who might alsofind this podcast valuable. It's
easy to do, just click the"Share" button in the app you're
listening to now to pass italong. You can also follow Copper
State of Mind in ApplePodcasts, Spotify, or any other podcast
app. We publish new episodesevery other Friday. Copper State
(24:53):
of Mind is brought to you byHMA Public Relations, the oldest
continuously operating PR firmin Arizona. The show is recorded
and produced by the team atSpeed of Story, a B2B communications
firm in Phoenix, anddistributed by PHX.fm, the leading
independent B2B podcastnetwork in Arizona. For all of us
(25:14):
here at Speed of story andPHX.fm I'm Adrian McIntyre. Thanks
for listening and for sharingthe show with others if you choose
to do so. We hope you'll joinus again for another episode of Copper
State of Mind.
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