April 11, 2024 • 33 mins
Have you ever tiptoed around a conversation, feeling the weight of words unsaid? This week, we wade into the complexities of discussing bariatric surgery, sharing stories that resonate with the need for empathy and understanding in these intimate dialogues. Reflecting on an encounter that struck a nerve, we dissect the nuances of suggesting such personal medical decisions. It's a candid look at confronting societal judgments, where we compare the wide acceptance of certain medical aids to the stigma that shrouds weight loss surgery and reveal how we've grown more confident in standing up for our stories.
Navigating the rough seas of toxic relationships, this episode doesn't just skirt the storm, it sails right through. We unveil the gritty reality of trying—and sometimes failing—to turn the tide on someone's perspective, and why it's sometimes necessary to drop anchor and sail away for the sake of self-respect. We share our arsenal of tactics for bracing difficult conversations, from setting time limits to the power of a simple "no." It's an episode that reaffirms the notion that our worth is not tethered to others' viewpoints, and that being open to the ever-evolving conversation on weight and health is a voyage we're all on together.
As the curtains draw on this episode, it's not a farewell but a heartfelt thanks and a "see you later" that we extend to you, our dedicated listeners. We invite you to keep the conversation alive by joining our vibrant online community, where the support and insights continue to flourish beyond the microphone. We part with laughter and a promise to return with more stories that stir the soul and support that strengthens the spirit. And if you want to stay looped into our journey, follow us on Instagram at Core Bariatrics. Here's to the next chapter, and to each of you who make this podcast a harbor for hope and understanding.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
Welcome to Core Bariatrics Podcast hosted by
Bariatric Surgeon Dr MariaIliakova and Tammy LaCos,
bariatric Coordinator and apatient herself.
Our goal is building andelevating our community.
The Core Bariatric Podcast doesnot offer medical advice,
diagnosis or treatment.
On this podcast, we aim toshare stories, support and
(00:22):
insight into the world beyondthe clinic.
Let's get into it.
Hi Tammy, hello Maria, how areyou?
I'm pretty well.
How are you?
I'm pretty good.
Pretty good.
It's been a chill Sunday.
We're a week away from when wewere in Florida and I'm just now
being able to relax.
Speaker 2 (00:39):
Oh my goodness, at least the weather here hasn't
been too bad.
It's been like fifties, whichis unheard of.
Not too bad at all.
No, for January and February inIowa, that's pretty
unprecedented.
Speaker 1 (00:48):
I think Absolutely Alright, so we didn't talk much.
So tell me what we're talkingabout today.
Speaker 2 (00:54):
We're actually talking about talking with
others.
Hey, talking about talking.
Speaker 1 (00:58):
Sounds good.
How do we get a whole episodewith that?
Speaker 2 (01:02):
Oh, my goodness, there's so much to break down
here.
I actually want to tell you astory.
When I, way before I didbariatric surgery as a
profession, when I was aresident, I remember being on
this rotation in bariatricsurgery.
We had a fellowship where I wasa resident and a really good
one, like really great doctorsand it was really well organized
and stuff like one of the bestnurse practitioners.
I've ever worked with Julie onthat team, anyway.
(01:22):
So I remember mentioning tosomebody who was in for a
totally different reason in thehospital and things like that I
was just inspired aboutbariatrics at the time hey, you
should consider bariatricsurgery.
And the person looked at melike I had, I don't know, cut
them or something and literallysaid, why?
So I can kill myself.
And I was so taken aback.
(01:43):
And this is years ago now, thisis probably four or five years
ago, and I think I just I didn'tknow what to say.
I had no idea how.
I think probably the way that Iraised the subject wasn't the
best and I was so taken aback.
And how do you even how do yourecover?
Speaker 1 (02:03):
How do you even respond?
Speaker 2 (02:04):
to that?
I didn't, I think.
I just said okay, somethinglike that, and I said I hope you
have a nice day and left, orsomething silly.
Because how do you respond tothat, I don't know.
Speaker 1 (02:14):
Yeah, I think on this topic you start talking about
it, then you start, you reallydo start to read the room and
read if they are interested orjust absolutely not interested,
or even if you're going to getthrough to them at all.
Speaker 2 (02:29):
Absolutely.
And now I realize, looking backat that situation, that my my
delivery was pretty dumb andthat is not something to talk
about with someone when they'rein the hospital for a different
reason.
It is absolutely not aconversation to spring on people
and it can come off as reallyjudgmental or really patronizing
and things like that.
So I know that now.
Speaker 1 (02:50):
And you have taught me that now for sure.
Speaker 2 (02:54):
You too.
You've taught me that too.
Please read there.
Speaker 1 (02:58):
Absolutely, and so I think, talking with others, I've
been on both sides of the boatof being completely silent and
now talking about it all thetime.
So, I think.
Definitely shoot me withquestions.
We'll go through why at thebeginning I did not talk about
it at all and now why I talkabout it all the dang time, and
(03:18):
people probably get annoyed byit.
Speaker 2 (03:20):
So I do want to ask you because I think when you
first came in, I remember yousharing some experiences that it
was really tough to even bethere and considering bariatric
surgery.
That's correct, right.
Speaker 1 (03:34):
Yeah, absolutely yeah .
It was hard to finally pull thetrigger.
It was hard to be even in theoffice, because even though
people are in the medical field,they don't necessarily they
aren't all warm and fuzzy, let'sbe honest.
So I felt judgment even in theoffice.
Yes and yes.
(03:55):
So it was very hard at thebeginning to get through the
door.
Speaker 2 (04:01):
Absolutely, and I think that judgment and
prejudice about bariatricsurgery is super common, whether
it's in a doctor's office,surprisingly, or we were in
Florida right last week for aconvention and we were super
giddy and excited about this newpodcast, that we were always
saying all about our bariatriccommunity and creating really
(04:21):
good materials for people andgood stories to share and things
like that, and we wereapproached.
No, so we, yeah, we wereapproached right In a
conversation that we were havingwith someone else and as soon
as we mentioned the topic of ourpodcast being bariatric surgery
, this guy who is I think he waslike an, I don't know an actor
or something like not ahealthcare professional, not
(04:42):
somebody in this fieldwhatsoever who got in my face
basically and said the solutionis these four things.
And it was like cayenne, peppersaunas and some other Dude one
please get out of my face andstop mansplaining this situation
to me.
And two, like it's.
Also, it struck me that's apretty common response that
(05:03):
people have.
Speaker 1 (05:05):
And I think that was the first time I ever truly got
upset during a conversationabout bariatric surgery because
I could just sense in hisdemeanor how much judgment there
was there.
And no, he clearly was not ahealthcare provider, but he
clearly thought he knew it allbecause he successfully was a in
(05:30):
shape kind of buff guy.
So I feel like the gym peoplethat are kind of beefheads tend
to think that they know thecalories in, calories out, just
move more All of that.
They don't understand the moreof it obviously.
Speaker 2 (05:49):
So that's how he took , how I took him as and it was a
pretty visceral response and Iwill say that's not uncommon he
just happened to voice it outloud, which some people don't.
It was frustrating, though, torealize, but I think this,
especially coming out of theCOVID pandemic and things like
that there's a lot of skepticismof healthcare providers or
people who are professionals toactually understand the field
(06:10):
they work in, and it totallyextends absolutely to weight and
weight management, whereeveryone has an opinion and not
all of those opinions arevalidated by actual fact or
Absolutely.
Speaker 1 (06:26):
Yeah, I think a lot of people now even make my
comments with, or myconversation with, a grain of
salt, because I still feel likethey think that I have no
education there and that I'vejust strictly been through the
process Right, when in reality,I really do try to not tell,
(06:46):
talk about things that aren'tlike science based or like
you've told me, or stuff likethat.
Speaker 2 (06:52):
So Right and we've approached it with a lot of
curiosity, which I think, ifwe're dealing with something
that we don't really understandor we don't have expertise in, I
think is a really great placeto start.
Even if we have expertise andknowledge in, I think it's a
good place to start is beingcurious about the subject and
realizing that we don't knoweverything about it.
There's a lot more to learnabout it, but that just doesn't
(07:14):
seem to be where a lot of peoplein the public or, honestly,
even in the healthcareprofession, necessarily start.
So it is really different to me.
I have not experienced anywherenear as much of the prejudice
and the judgment as other peoplehave when we talk about
bariatric surgery, because I,pretty much off the bat,
(07:36):
introduced myself as, like, asurgeon and I do have a weight
that is below a BMI of 25 and Ithink that shields me from some
of the like criticism, judgmentthat people face.
But I do see it happening andhear the stories of it happening
to other people and it ishorrifying.
Speaker 1 (07:55):
Yeah, yeah it's, it's not fun to go through.
I will say and I think you areabsolutely correct that just by
your profession and just yourBMI status, that I think you are
100% guarded by some of that.
Speaker 2 (08:11):
And that, and even then, I still see the crazy risk
.
Not I wouldn't even say thatthe opinions themselves are
crazy or that people are crazy,but the way that people are
willing to treat each other onthis topic.
I think that is actually crazyin some ways, because Absolutely
, yeah, it's so disrespectfuland it's it infuses morality
where it doesn't belong and italso, I think, deprives people
(08:34):
of privacy in a lot of ways.
Absolutely, because if this isa health issue for someone and
it may be then why on earthwould you think you could weigh
in on that?
Yeah, and if it's not a healthissue and it's just a personal
issue for someone, it's askingsomeone like what's your deepest
, most personal fear in life?
And let's talk about it.
Really Stranger.
(08:54):
You're so right, you're soright and I have felt
uncomfortable talking about myweight for my entire life pretty
much and still struggle withthat and things, and I'm just
like this is a really strangething for people to feel
comfortable like announcingtheir knowledge to the world
about or announcing theiropinion to the world about,
especially when it involvessomeone else.
Speaker 1 (09:16):
Yeah, I think you're right.
Speaker 2 (09:19):
But I don't know.
But I also understand I thinkyou've mentioned this too of not
really wanting to have toexplain your reasoning or not
having wanting to be forced intoa conversation about this when
you don't want to have thatconversation.
Speaker 1 (09:33):
Yeah.
So I will say what before I hadsurgery, honestly, a handful of
people knew and I don'tnecessarily want to say that I
cared that anybody knew I wasnot in the place to be able to
defend my decision.
Not that I cared to or not,because I am very much so a
person that I'll do what I wantto do and I don't care what your
(09:55):
opinion is but I wasn't in aplace to be able to defend it in
a manner that I think would bebeneficial, if that's the word,
or yeah.
So I didn't tell a lot ofpeople.
Yeah, yeah, I just didn't wantto explain myself.
I didn't want to explain myself.
Speaker 2 (10:12):
You said the word defend my decision, and I'm
really curious about that,because I have never heard of
somebody having to defend cancertreatment or defend taking a
medication for diabetes, forinstance.
Speaker 1 (10:25):
Or defending having a hip replacement or anything
like that.
Yes, please, yeah, it's sadbecause I had to.
I feel like I had to explainmyself that, look, I have tried
all of these diets all the time.
Look, I love working out, Ilove healthy food, all the
(10:46):
things are there.
I just my body wasn't doingwhat apparently it should have
been doing with what I wasgiving it.
And a previous episode with DrJessica Smith, she kept saying
how, like, more diets thatyou're on actually hurts your
metabolism more than helps itand it just keeps getting harder
and harder.
And I also was going back andforth between 100 pounds within
(11:12):
five years because I had my twokids and I've lost weight and
all that.
And so I've done all the thingsI tried.
Fentermene didn't have a greatreaction to it, though it did
curb my hunger, didn't helpanything else, and it's the
second you get off of it.
Now your hunger is back now.
So I feel like I just had todefend why I thought bariatric
(11:34):
surgery was where I needed to go, because, yes, everybody thinks
it's your last ditch effort andlike you've done something
wrong and now you can't digyourself out of that hole.
Speaker 2 (11:45):
And I think that all of that kind of misinformation
or misconceptions about weightexcuse the pun, but they weigh
really heavy on people who aremaking the decision to consider
either bariatric surgery orother approaches or have gone
through it and we just we livein a world that really is not
accepting of updated informationon this and accepting people as
(12:09):
trying things for their healthor trying to do things without
having to defend themselves andwithout having to go through
that whole spiel of I've triedthis and I've tried that and
I've failed at this and failedat that.
And I don't understand why weforce people with this specific
health condition to defend theiractions in a way we don't with
others.
Speaker 1 (12:30):
Yeah, and you brought up diabetes and or cancer
treatment.
Sorry, but I went on the roadof diabetes.
No one's going to question aperson if, right from the get go
, they decide to get an insulinpump If they need it Exactly.
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (12:47):
Or if no one's going to question somebody if they
need a hip replacement.
If they need a hip replacement,right, they're not going to go.
Oh, you don't deserve a hipreplacement.
Why would you do that?
That's extreme, all that kindof thing.
But yet we seem to interject alot of public opinion and kind
of uninformed opinion into thisotherwise pretty private
individual matter for people andprivate decision and make it
(13:11):
create a public forum around it.
And it's super, I think,understandable for people not to
want to talk about it if it'sgoing to become a public
question and answer session andI also think this could relate
to.
Speaker 1 (13:26):
We also have a fertility episode and I
guarantee women are not goingaround being like oh yeah, I'm
struggling with fertility, I'vebeen having to do these
injections, I've been having totry, or I've had to try this,
that or the other thing, because, guess what, I guarantee people
are going to weigh in of, oh,did you try this?
Oh, did you try this?
Oh, you need to stop stressingout and just go with the flow,
(13:49):
it'll happen.
Oh, you need to be on your headfive minutes for five minutes
after going to court or whatever.
Speaker 2 (13:56):
Yeah, that is how firm work.
By the way, definitely 100%.
That is how that works.
Speaker 1 (14:03):
But, yeah, I just keep feeling all these, or
realizing all these analogiesthat truly are just lighting my
light bulbs, going off of allthis makes sense and just why is
this so different than anythingelse?
Speaker 2 (14:19):
Yeah and okay.
So now we've talked about someof the reasons why it's so tough
to talk with other people aboutbariatric surgery and about
making this decision or onceyou've made it and gone through
it.
So how, if you feel liketalking with someone about it,
how would you approach it?
Speaker 1 (14:34):
If I felt like talking about it to someone, I
just bring it up.
Now I do, now I do Honestly.
If anybody brings up anythingthat has to do with weight in
the room, I'm like I've hadbariatric surgery and if you're
more about it, like what madeyou think?
Speaker 2 (14:51):
what changed your?
You said that in the beginningthat really wasn't your approach
.
What changed for you?
Speaker 1 (14:57):
Because I am so much more educated now because I've
had multiple doctors outside ofyou and I'm kind of even people
that you are affiliated with inany manner just keep educating
me of.
It is way more than eating lessand moving more.
It's way more, and I want todrill this in people's heads,
(15:20):
especially the guy that's tryingto tell me to sit in a sauna
and eat some cayenne pepper.
Speaker 2 (15:26):
He sounds like yeah, it sounds like a lonely endeavor
to do that, and I don't meanthere were other things on his
list too.
But you're right, I am soappreciative that you're willing
to go out there and say things,because I do think it takes a
lot of courage in an environmentthat oftentimes will judge and
will shame and will not acceptthe fact that there's
information out there yeah,there's that is available and
(15:51):
it's accurate, it's validated.
But you're still going to getthe brunt of people's misguided
and sometimes it's misguidedgood intention, but it really
doesn't matter if it's good orbad intention, if it's misguided
right.
Speaker 1 (16:03):
Yeah, actually, you're totally right, and I
think prior to having surgery aswell, when I wasn't telling
people, I just didn't have theconfidence to even again have
those conversations.
And, as I've said before, Ifeel like, even if people don't
think they're treating medifferently, I feel like people
are treating me differently,like baseball moms more willing
(16:25):
to approach me.
I just feel like people aremore treating me like a normal
person, which what is normal ofthese days?
But now that I am more educated, I am quote unquote maybe more
normal.
I don't even know more size.
Speaker 2 (16:43):
that society accepts women, especially at being, I
think is normally normal meansin that sense and I don't agree
with it being like normal quoteunquote.
But I think that societydefinitely treats people
differently, based on differentweights, for sure.
Speaker 1 (16:56):
Yeah, and so now I think people are more willing to
listen to me Because I'm Iwouldn't say I'm this great
success story by any means, butthat I've been through this,
I've done well and again, more.
Quote unquote normal people aremore willing to listen.
Speaker 2 (17:17):
Tammy, I would actually totally disagree with
you there for a second and I'llsay really.
Yeah, because I think you are.
You've said something that waslike I haven't been successful.
I think you've been out of theballpark successful.
Speaker 1 (17:30):
No, I know it's been successful, but just I'm not
like this like miraculous, Idon't know.
Speaker 2 (17:38):
But that's not what successful is.
I don't think I thinksuccessfully.
You've gone from.
Your confidence has changeddrastically.
Your ability to perceive what'schanging in you and to have an
influence on that and aninfluence on other people is way
different now than it was ayear and a half ago.
And whatever, at whateverweight, at whatever any kind of
(17:59):
sign on a scale or anything likethat, I think the way that your
life has changed and your mindhas grown through this process,
especially on behalf of otherpeople, I think is pretty darn
remarkable.
Speaker 1 (18:11):
And here we are, welcoming everyone to the.
Maria talks to Tammy to stop ornot yelling, but being like
shut up.
Why are you talking down onyourself, Guys?
This is almost a day to daything and for a together day to
day I love it, but it's true wegot to build each other up.
Speaker 2 (18:30):
I don't think that you're right, because I would
never talk to anybody else likethat.
You're right and you don't talkto anybody else like that.
That's the whole thing, is theonly thing I've ever heard you
say about anyone we've evertaken care of or anyone that we
were out dancing.
I think one of the nights thatwe were in Orlando and you
approached someone, or they haveI'm actually not sure if you
approached them or theyapproached you and y'all were
(18:50):
sharing stories about bariatricsurgery within three minutes.
Speaker 1 (18:53):
I just, I was trying to get everybody to dance with
you so I didn't have to.
Oh no, okay, truth revealed.
I love it.
That's wonderful.
Not that I don't want to dancewith you, but me, and salsa is
not my thing.
But yeah, I openly said that Ihad bariatric surgery.
She then said she had bariatricsurgery and now we follow each
other on Instagram and I hope wehave her on here one day,
(19:17):
because she's gone through evenplastic surgery and stuff.
So I'd love to talk to herabout that.
Speaker 2 (19:23):
Yeah, but you've become a resource for other
people, which I think is reallysomething to be proud of for the
rest of your life, because it'syou didn't just keep this to
yourself, even though it'sreally freaking hard to do that.
And that actually leads me toanother thing that I don't think
anyone who has gone throughthis process of bariatric
surgery or considering it owesanyone their story and owes
(19:44):
anyone any discussion about it.
So, if you don't want to talkabout it, you don't have to Like
you don't Absolutely, andthere's we've still have people
like.
Speaker 1 (19:57):
We interviewed my one of my family members and she
said some of her family stilldoesn't know that she's had it,
and so you're absolutely right.
Speaker 2 (20:05):
You don't have to talk about it if you don't want
to, and I think that's somethingthat I think people may feel
obligated to sometimes, or otherpeople may make them feel that
way of you're a certain size andI need to tell you what to do
about that and you need tolisten to me, and it's.
That's ridiculous.
No, you do not owe yourattention to anyone for that
discussion.
Speaker 1 (20:26):
And that kind of brings up a question to you is
how does someone who is notcompletely wanting to be like,
yeah, I've had bariatric surgerywhen people ask them how much
or how they've lost all theweight they have?
Sure, how do you, how do, howwould you respond to a person
that asked you that if youdidn't want to reveal that
(20:48):
you've had bariatric surgery?
Speaker 2 (20:50):
So I have a couple of people have asked me about this
and I think the advice iseither you know that it's my
business or if you'd like tohave a conversation about that,
let's.
Let's get into it another time,or I don't really want to talk
about that.
It depends you.
Again, you don't owe that storyto anyone.
If you want to talk about itand you feel comfortable sharing
with that person in the contextyou're in, that's great.
(21:13):
But if you don't, it's likesomebody asking you can you tell
me about your birth, how youbirthed your child, and can you
please tell me the details aboutit?
And you're like what?
Speaker 1 (21:22):
Yeah.
But I think even telling peoplelike I've just changed my
lifestyle is a valid enoughresponse, Because it's not a lie
either because you absolutelyhave changed your lifestyle.
Speaker 2 (21:33):
Absolutely and I just I don't.
I just really believe you donot owe that story and you do
not owe your experience toanyone If you feel comfortable
sharing it and you want to shareit again in at that time with
that person, because it alsojust might not be the right time
to share it.
If you're out in public atdinner with friends and somebody
asks you that and you don'twant to share it with the 10
(21:53):
people you're with, might not bethe right time.
Or it's a friend of a friend,or it's some random dude at a
convention who's in your face.
Like that just might not be theright interaction to share that
information because it mightnot be used wisely by the other
person.
It might be used to judge youor it might be used to shame you
or it might be used tointerject their opinion on it,
which really isn't welcome.
(22:13):
Or it might be a family memberat Thanksgiving dinner, and
again that.
The other thing to think aboutalso is I do want to mention
when we talk with others thereis a lot of policing that
happens around weight and thereis.
I have noticed sometimes thatpeople after making big changes
with their weight, even if it'swith surgery without surgery in
(22:36):
any way, they can be subject topolicing from other people about
what they eat or how they movetheir bodies or other things
that they're doing in their life.
Speaker 1 (22:47):
So right and I hate it so much.
That's why I loved our clinicso much is some of our patients
was like how do you eat around,danny, who is our, was our my
dietitian?
And I'm just like, look, danny,don't care what I'm eating.
Danny's more worried about whatDanny's eating.
And, yeah, you're right, and Ifeel like even some of our other
(23:09):
coworkers.
I felt like I was under amicroscope of what I ate.
But then the people that trulymattered and understood how
bariatric surgery works andeverything, and even you're like
, eat that piece of Halloweencandy.
But you're absolutely right forand that's another reason why I
didn't necessarily put it on abillboard that I was having
(23:30):
bariatric surgery, because Ididn't want everybody to be
nitpicking what I was eating ordrinking or if I was even going
out for a drink one night.
Speaker 2 (23:40):
And I think that's yeah, so that so, when people
have, if you have theseconversations with people, one
of the things that you'veexposed to me is that it's
important to set boundaries forwhat you want to discuss, who
you want to discuss that with,maybe even when or how long it's
going to take to talk about it,so that you're not just having
these like open endedconversations with people and
(24:02):
people get to talk, steer thedirection of the conversation
anywhere they want to go.
It's more up to you.
Does that like a maybereasonable way to have that
conversation if you want to haveit?
Speaker 1 (24:12):
Oh, absolutely, absolutely.
I feel sense surgery not onlywith conversations I'm able to
set boundaries, but also just mywhole life in general.
So absolutely, boundaries inall of our lives, in all aspects
is so important.
Speaker 2 (24:29):
Right, and that's in personal relationships outside
of this topic, but definitely onthis topic too.
And you actually have a friendwho we did an interview with,
jessica, who has a reallyexcellent description of how she
set some of those boundariesand that was definitely worth a
listen, I think, on this topicspecifically of how to support
yourself Report from othersafter surgery in a way that that
(24:51):
doesn't that.
Yeah, that just reallyaccomplishes setting boundaries
really well.
Speaker 1 (24:56):
Yeah, absolutely, and she teaches, she continues to
teach me every day, for sure.
Speaker 2 (25:01):
Yeah, and then the other thing that I think you
have definitely made it reallyclear to me and I have seen from
other people go through thisprocess is personalizing it and
conveying to other people whythis matters, like that you're
doing this for your kids, thatyou're doing this to feel better
, that you're doing this becauseyou know you want something out
of it that you can't getotherwise, and so it's not about
(25:22):
the way, necessarily, it's notabout a specific number or
something like that, but it'sabout a lifestyle you want to
have and personalizing it,because I really do think it's
this sort of idea of it's reallyeasy for us to hate on other
people if we think they're doingsomething we don't understand.
It's way yeah, it's like wayharder to hate someone if you
care about them and if you heartheir story.
Speaker 1 (25:45):
But even then, even if the words coming out of your
mouth is I'm wanting to loseweight because I want office
CPAP, I want my diabetes to bebetter, I want to move better,
sometimes people, even if theyare the closest people to you,
don't believe that and willstill say I think you're doing
this to lose weight, just tolook better.
(26:08):
So, there's another thingyou're dealing with is, even
though you're saying this andyou know why you're doing it,
people think otherwise, and thensometimes it almost makes you
question your oh yeah 100%.
Speaker 2 (26:24):
Okay, let me talk about that first set because
that is so interesting to me.
Because people like go to thegym to look better, they wear
makeup to look better, they wearclean clothes to look better if
they do their hair to lookbetter, but somehow if you do a
medical treatment to look better, all of a sudden that's a no,
that's a no go, it doesn'treally Plastic surgery, though a
(26:46):
lot of people are againstplastic surgery, even if it's
for a tummy tuck, that isliterally just to get rid of
yeast infections, because youjust can't get them to stop.
Speaker 1 (26:58):
People just think what they want to think, and it
is very hard.
I still struggle with itsometimes.
But, I have gotten better oflook.
If that's what you're going tothink, I can't change your mind.
And it's not worth my effort tochange your mind Definitely.
Speaker 2 (27:15):
And you mentioned something there.
You hit on something which isbasically it's okay to walk away
from a conversation or walkaway from, yeah, whether it's
with a health care provider orwhether it's with another person
in your life.
You again, you just don't owesomebody that attention if
they're not being respectful init.
Speaker 1 (27:33):
Absolutely, I've done that, even in a professional
aspect, and I probably shouldhave gotten fired for it, but I
literally walked up, or got upand walked out and said I need
to leave this conversationbefore I say something I don't
want to regret, becauseobviously you can't take
backwards.
But yeah, please, there arepeople out there that can be
(27:55):
your people.
That's something I also had tolearn, too is your job.
You're not stuck in your job.
You might be comfortable inyour job, but you're not happy.
Walk away from it.
Same with your relationships Ifyou are not getting what you
want out of it, it is okay towalk away, because you are your
number one priority, for sure.
Speaker 2 (28:17):
And there's a lot to that, I think that I think what
you're talking about is afterreasonable effort.
It's not like you yeah.
Speaker 1 (28:23):
Yeah, we're not talking.
Speaker 2 (28:26):
We're not advocating at all.
You have a conflict withsomeone and all of a sudden
they're dead to you.
That is not what we're talkingabout.
Nope, I'm glad you clarifiedthat.
Yes, but what I think you'retalking about is if, over and
over again, you're constantlyfacing the same lack of respect
or lack of boundaries or lack ofsupport or whatever it is, that
(28:48):
is an indicator of dignitybasically in that relationship,
then it's okay to no longerparticipate in that, because
that is damaging and that'ssuper damaging at the time
especially.
The other thing that I've seenwith people going through this
process that can work is becausethis can be such a touchy
subject for a lot of folks and alot of folks don't know how to
(29:11):
have this conversation very well.
It's like talking about moneyin a relationship which can be
really tough for people, and soI think that setting time aside
to talk with people who areimportant in your life, if you
want to share this informationwith them or if they want to ask
questions, I think this goesboth ways If you actually set
aside some time to talk about itand maybe go in with some
(29:35):
ground rules about what thatconversation is going to be
about, absolutely, and timelimit it Again.
Don't let it go for hours andgo all these different tangents,
but maybe just talk for 20minutes or 30 minutes and maybe
say let's talk again about thiswhen we have a chance, if
there's more questions, so thatpeople have a chance to really
(29:57):
chew on it a little bit.
And there's evidence that,especially for adults, we have
to hear something or interactwith an idea or information
anywhere between three and seventimes before it becomes
something that we can accept.
And I think that really applieswhen we're talking about
difficult subjects where there'snot just one clear answer or
(30:17):
there's not just one obvioussource of information that's
infallible.
There's a lot more to it thanthat, and I think so.
Yeah, if you're having complexconversations like this, either
from the person who's goingthrough it or the person who's
asking questions, having thosekind of respectful conversations
in a way that both of you havesafety, both of you have a way
(30:38):
out, both of you have a way toreconnect down the road and not
have to solve and fix everythingat that same time, may be a
better approach than justconfronting people or, yeah,
doing it whenever, wherever.
Speaker 1 (30:53):
Yeah, absolutely.
Why is it such a big?
Why do we have to think so hardon how to have this
conversation?
Speaker 2 (31:02):
It's just it's still.
Speaker 1 (31:03):
Hopefully in 10 years from now we won't.
We'll be looking back on thisand be like I can't believe how
ridiculous society was.
But that would be amazing.
Speaker 2 (31:12):
That would be amazing .
That would be amazing.
I hope that's the case.
I hope everything we're doingis obsolete in five or 10 years.
I hope, yeah, I hope so too,for sure.
Right, I hope so Because Ithink hopefully by that point
we'll be more enlightened.
I did have a couple of things Iwanted to leave people with,
though, because I definitelywant to make sure that people
who have gone through thisprocess have a couple of kind of
ground rules, I think, forthemselves to think about.
(31:35):
That's one that nobody shouldever share your story or share
your basically like your medicalinformation without your
permission.
That goes for other people too.
You should never be sharingsomebody else's story of
bariatric surgery or weightchanges without their permission
in a context where they wouldwant it shared.
And then who?
(31:55):
I hope that all of us have kindof an open mind about this,
because even professionals likeyou and me do not know
everything about weight and donot know everything about
bariatric surgery.
There's still a lot of researchon this topic and figuring out
how things work and what thingswork, so it's an evolving thing
that none of us know 100%.
Speaker 1 (32:14):
So just to record Absolutely, yeah, and so,
whatever we're saying, and ifsomeone else is saying something
different, not saying we're notwrong, not saying they're wrong
.
Yet there's so much to it forsure, exactly.
Speaker 2 (32:26):
And we will definitely know more in the
future about this topic,hopefully.
And then the last thing I wantto leave people with is that
your value does not depend onsomeone else's opinion of you or
external validation of you.
And then thank you, Shout thatlouder, Thank you for those in
the back.
No kidding In this topicespecially, I hear a lot of
(32:50):
times that people are made tofeel really awful by other
people's opinions or by otherpeople's perceptions of them,
and we are trying to create thiskind of podcast and to create
these kinds of supports forpeople to hopefully, even if one
person gets this out of it, Iwould be proud of what we're
doing here.
Tammy is that your value doesnot depend on somebody else's
(33:13):
opinion of you.
Speaker 1 (33:15):
And that is why I wanted to share you with the
world yet again.
Speaker 2 (33:20):
Tammy, oh, all right.
Speaker 1 (33:22):
Before we get all sappy here.
Thank you everybody forlistening.
Don't forget to follow us Headover to Instagram and look up
Corbariatrix if you want totouch base with us.
Otherwise, Maria, if we keptgoing, I'm just going to start
crying, oh, cry.
Speaker 2 (33:37):
Please don't cry, tammy.
This is supposed to be a happyepisode, absolutely.
Yes.
I'm so grateful to be here withyou guys, and I hope that you
tune in for the next episode tooSee you then Thank you Bye
Awesome.
Welcome to Core Bariatrics Podcast hosted by
Bariatric Surgeon Dr MariaIliakova and Tammy LaCos,
bariatric Coordinator and apatient herself.
Our goal is building andelevating our community.
The Core Bariatric Podcast doesnot offer medical advice,
diagnosis or treatment.
On this podcast, we aim toshare stories, support and
(00:22):
insight into the world beyondthe clinic.
Let's get into it.
Hi Tammy, hello Maria, how areyou?
I'm pretty well.
How are you?
I'm pretty good.
Pretty good.
It's been a chill Sunday.
We're a week away from when wewere in Florida and I'm just now
being able to relax.
Speaker 2 (00:39):
Oh my goodness, at least the weather here hasn't
been too bad.
It's been like fifties, whichis unheard of.
Not too bad at all.
No, for January and February inIowa, that's pretty
unprecedented.
Speaker 1 (00:48):
I think Absolutely Alright, so we didn't talk much.
So tell me what we're talkingabout today.
Speaker 2 (00:54):
We're actually talking about talking with
others.
Hey, talking about talking.
Speaker 1 (00:58):
Sounds good.
How do we get a whole episodewith that?
Speaker 2 (01:02):
Oh, my goodness, there's so much to break down
here.
I actually want to tell you astory.
When I, way before I didbariatric surgery as a
profession, when I was aresident, I remember being on
this rotation in bariatricsurgery.
We had a fellowship where I wasa resident and a really good
one, like really great doctorsand it was really well organized
and stuff like one of the bestnurse practitioners.
I've ever worked with Julie onthat team, anyway.
(01:22):
So I remember mentioning tosomebody who was in for a
totally different reason in thehospital and things like that I
was just inspired aboutbariatrics at the time hey, you
should consider bariatricsurgery.
And the person looked at melike I had, I don't know, cut
them or something and literallysaid, why?
So I can kill myself.
And I was so taken aback.
(01:43):
And this is years ago now, thisis probably four or five years
ago, and I think I just I didn'tknow what to say.
I had no idea how.
I think probably the way that Iraised the subject wasn't the
best and I was so taken aback.
And how do you even how do yourecover?
Speaker 1 (02:03):
How do you even respond?
Speaker 2 (02:04):
to that?
I didn't, I think.
I just said okay, somethinglike that, and I said I hope you
have a nice day and left, orsomething silly.
Because how do you respond tothat, I don't know.
Speaker 1 (02:14):
Yeah, I think on this topic you start talking about
it, then you start, you reallydo start to read the room and
read if they are interested orjust absolutely not interested,
or even if you're going to getthrough to them at all.
Speaker 2 (02:29):
Absolutely.
And now I realize, looking backat that situation, that my my
delivery was pretty dumb andthat is not something to talk
about with someone when they'rein the hospital for a different
reason.
It is absolutely not aconversation to spring on people
and it can come off as reallyjudgmental or really patronizing
and things like that.
So I know that now.
Speaker 1 (02:50):
And you have taught me that now for sure.
Speaker 2 (02:54):
You too.
You've taught me that too.
Please read there.
Speaker 1 (02:58):
Absolutely, and so I think, talking with others, I've
been on both sides of the boatof being completely silent and
now talking about it all thetime.
So, I think.
Definitely shoot me withquestions.
We'll go through why at thebeginning I did not talk about
it at all and now why I talkabout it all the dang time, and
(03:18):
people probably get annoyed byit.
Speaker 2 (03:20):
So I do want to ask you because I think when you
first came in, I remember yousharing some experiences that it
was really tough to even bethere and considering bariatric
surgery.
That's correct, right.
Speaker 1 (03:34):
Yeah, absolutely yeah .
It was hard to finally pull thetrigger.
It was hard to be even in theoffice, because even though
people are in the medical field,they don't necessarily they
aren't all warm and fuzzy, let'sbe honest.
So I felt judgment even in theoffice.
Yes and yes.
(03:55):
So it was very hard at thebeginning to get through the
door.
Speaker 2 (04:01):
Absolutely, and I think that judgment and
prejudice about bariatricsurgery is super common, whether
it's in a doctor's office,surprisingly, or we were in
Florida right last week for aconvention and we were super
giddy and excited about this newpodcast, that we were always
saying all about our bariatriccommunity and creating really
(04:21):
good materials for people andgood stories to share and things
like that, and we wereapproached.
No, so we, yeah, we wereapproached right In a
conversation that we were havingwith someone else and as soon
as we mentioned the topic of ourpodcast being bariatric surgery
, this guy who is I think he waslike an, I don't know an actor
or something like not ahealthcare professional, not
(04:42):
somebody in this fieldwhatsoever who got in my face
basically and said the solutionis these four things.
And it was like cayenne, peppersaunas and some other Dude one
please get out of my face andstop mansplaining this situation
to me.
And two, like it's.
Also, it struck me that's apretty common response that
(05:03):
people have.
Speaker 1 (05:05):
And I think that was the first time I ever truly got
upset during a conversationabout bariatric surgery because
I could just sense in hisdemeanor how much judgment there
was there.
And no, he clearly was not ahealthcare provider, but he
clearly thought he knew it allbecause he successfully was a in
(05:30):
shape kind of buff guy.
So I feel like the gym peoplethat are kind of beefheads tend
to think that they know thecalories in, calories out, just
move more All of that.
They don't understand the moreof it obviously.
Speaker 2 (05:49):
So that's how he took , how I took him as and it was a
pretty visceral response and Iwill say that's not uncommon he
just happened to voice it outloud, which some people don't.
It was frustrating, though, torealize, but I think this,
especially coming out of theCOVID pandemic and things like
that there's a lot of skepticismof healthcare providers or
people who are professionals toactually understand the field
(06:10):
they work in, and it totallyextends absolutely to weight and
weight management, whereeveryone has an opinion and not
all of those opinions arevalidated by actual fact or
Absolutely.
Speaker 1 (06:26):
Yeah, I think a lot of people now even make my
comments with, or myconversation with, a grain of
salt, because I still feel likethey think that I have no
education there and that I'vejust strictly been through the
process Right, when in reality,I really do try to not tell,
(06:46):
talk about things that aren'tlike science based or like
you've told me, or stuff likethat.
Speaker 2 (06:52):
So Right and we've approached it with a lot of
curiosity, which I think, ifwe're dealing with something
that we don't really understandor we don't have expertise in, I
think is a really great placeto start.
Even if we have expertise andknowledge in, I think it's a
good place to start is beingcurious about the subject and
realizing that we don't knoweverything about it.
There's a lot more to learnabout it, but that just doesn't
(07:14):
seem to be where a lot of peoplein the public or, honestly,
even in the healthcareprofession, necessarily start.
So it is really different to me.
I have not experienced anywherenear as much of the prejudice
and the judgment as other peoplehave when we talk about
bariatric surgery, because I,pretty much off the bat,
(07:36):
introduced myself as, like, asurgeon and I do have a weight
that is below a BMI of 25 and Ithink that shields me from some
of the like criticism, judgmentthat people face.
But I do see it happening andhear the stories of it happening
to other people and it ishorrifying.
Speaker 1 (07:55):
Yeah, yeah it's, it's not fun to go through.
I will say and I think you areabsolutely correct that just by
your profession and just yourBMI status, that I think you are
100% guarded by some of that.
Speaker 2 (08:11):
And that, and even then, I still see the crazy risk
.
Not I wouldn't even say thatthe opinions themselves are
crazy or that people are crazy,but the way that people are
willing to treat each other onthis topic.
I think that is actually crazyin some ways, because Absolutely
, yeah, it's so disrespectfuland it's it infuses morality
where it doesn't belong and italso, I think, deprives people
(08:34):
of privacy in a lot of ways.
Absolutely, because if this isa health issue for someone and
it may be then why on earthwould you think you could weigh
in on that?
Yeah, and if it's not a healthissue and it's just a personal
issue for someone, it's askingsomeone like what's your deepest
, most personal fear in life?
And let's talk about it.
Really Stranger.
(08:54):
You're so right, you're soright and I have felt
uncomfortable talking about myweight for my entire life pretty
much and still struggle withthat and things, and I'm just
like this is a really strangething for people to feel
comfortable like announcingtheir knowledge to the world
about or announcing theiropinion to the world about,
especially when it involvessomeone else.
Speaker 1 (09:16):
Yeah, I think you're right.
Speaker 2 (09:19):
But I don't know.
But I also understand I thinkyou've mentioned this too of not
really wanting to have toexplain your reasoning or not
having wanting to be forced intoa conversation about this when
you don't want to have thatconversation.
Speaker 1 (09:33):
Yeah.
So I will say what before I hadsurgery, honestly, a handful of
people knew and I don'tnecessarily want to say that I
cared that anybody knew I wasnot in the place to be able to
defend my decision.
Not that I cared to or not,because I am very much so a
person that I'll do what I wantto do and I don't care what your
(09:55):
opinion is but I wasn't in aplace to be able to defend it in
a manner that I think would bebeneficial, if that's the word,
or yeah.
So I didn't tell a lot ofpeople.
Yeah, yeah, I just didn't wantto explain myself.
I didn't want to explain myself.
Speaker 2 (10:12):
You said the word defend my decision, and I'm
really curious about that,because I have never heard of
somebody having to defend cancertreatment or defend taking a
medication for diabetes, forinstance.
Speaker 1 (10:25):
Or defending having a hip replacement or anything
like that.
Yes, please, yeah, it's sadbecause I had to.
I feel like I had to explainmyself that, look, I have tried
all of these diets all the time.
Look, I love working out, Ilove healthy food, all the
(10:46):
things are there.
I just my body wasn't doingwhat apparently it should have
been doing with what I wasgiving it.
And a previous episode with DrJessica Smith, she kept saying
how, like, more diets thatyou're on actually hurts your
metabolism more than helps itand it just keeps getting harder
and harder.
And I also was going back andforth between 100 pounds within
(11:12):
five years because I had my twokids and I've lost weight and
all that.
And so I've done all the thingsI tried.
Fentermene didn't have a greatreaction to it, though it did
curb my hunger, didn't helpanything else, and it's the
second you get off of it.
Now your hunger is back now.
So I feel like I just had todefend why I thought bariatric
(11:34):
surgery was where I needed to go, because, yes, everybody thinks
it's your last ditch effort andlike you've done something
wrong and now you can't digyourself out of that hole.
Speaker 2 (11:45):
And I think that all of that kind of misinformation
or misconceptions about weightexcuse the pun, but they weigh
really heavy on people who aremaking the decision to consider
either bariatric surgery orother approaches or have gone
through it and we just we livein a world that really is not
accepting of updated informationon this and accepting people as
(12:09):
trying things for their healthor trying to do things without
having to defend themselves andwithout having to go through
that whole spiel of I've triedthis and I've tried that and
I've failed at this and failedat that.
And I don't understand why weforce people with this specific
health condition to defend theiractions in a way we don't with
others.
Speaker 1 (12:30):
Yeah, and you brought up diabetes and or cancer
treatment.
Sorry, but I went on the roadof diabetes.
No one's going to question aperson if, right from the get go
, they decide to get an insulinpump If they need it Exactly.
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (12:47):
Or if no one's going to question somebody if they
need a hip replacement.
If they need a hip replacement,right, they're not going to go.
Oh, you don't deserve a hipreplacement.
Why would you do that?
That's extreme, all that kindof thing.
But yet we seem to interject alot of public opinion and kind
of uninformed opinion into thisotherwise pretty private
individual matter for people andprivate decision and make it
(13:11):
create a public forum around it.
And it's super, I think,understandable for people not to
want to talk about it if it'sgoing to become a public
question and answer session andI also think this could relate
to.
Speaker 1 (13:26):
We also have a fertility episode and I
guarantee women are not goingaround being like oh yeah, I'm
struggling with fertility, I'vebeen having to do these
injections, I've been having totry, or I've had to try this,
that or the other thing, because, guess what, I guarantee people
are going to weigh in of, oh,did you try this?
Oh, did you try this?
Oh, you need to stop stressingout and just go with the flow,
(13:49):
it'll happen.
Oh, you need to be on your headfive minutes for five minutes
after going to court or whatever.
Speaker 2 (13:56):
Yeah, that is how firm work.
By the way, definitely 100%.
That is how that works.
Speaker 1 (14:03):
But, yeah, I just keep feeling all these, or
realizing all these analogiesthat truly are just lighting my
light bulbs, going off of allthis makes sense and just why is
this so different than anythingelse?
Speaker 2 (14:19):
Yeah and okay.
So now we've talked about someof the reasons why it's so tough
to talk with other people aboutbariatric surgery and about
making this decision or onceyou've made it and gone through
it.
So how, if you feel liketalking with someone about it,
how would you approach it?
Speaker 1 (14:34):
If I felt like talking about it to someone, I
just bring it up.
Now I do, now I do Honestly.
If anybody brings up anythingthat has to do with weight in
the room, I'm like I've hadbariatric surgery and if you're
more about it, like what madeyou think?
Speaker 2 (14:51):
what changed your?
You said that in the beginningthat really wasn't your approach
.
What changed for you?
Speaker 1 (14:57):
Because I am so much more educated now because I've
had multiple doctors outside ofyou and I'm kind of even people
that you are affiliated with inany manner just keep educating
me of.
It is way more than eating lessand moving more.
It's way more, and I want todrill this in people's heads,
(15:20):
especially the guy that's tryingto tell me to sit in a sauna
and eat some cayenne pepper.
Speaker 2 (15:26):
He sounds like yeah, it sounds like a lonely endeavor
to do that, and I don't meanthere were other things on his
list too.
But you're right, I am soappreciative that you're willing
to go out there and say things,because I do think it takes a
lot of courage in an environmentthat oftentimes will judge and
will shame and will not acceptthe fact that there's
information out there yeah,there's that is available and
(15:51):
it's accurate, it's validated.
But you're still going to getthe brunt of people's misguided
and sometimes it's misguidedgood intention, but it really
doesn't matter if it's good orbad intention, if it's misguided
right.
Speaker 1 (16:03):
Yeah, actually, you're totally right, and I
think prior to having surgery aswell, when I wasn't telling
people, I just didn't have theconfidence to even again have
those conversations.
And, as I've said before, Ifeel like, even if people don't
think they're treating medifferently, I feel like people
are treating me differently,like baseball moms more willing
(16:25):
to approach me.
I just feel like people aremore treating me like a normal
person, which what is normal ofthese days?
But now that I am more educated, I am quote unquote maybe more
normal.
I don't even know more size.
Speaker 2 (16:43):
that society accepts women, especially at being, I
think is normally normal meansin that sense and I don't agree
with it being like normal quoteunquote.
But I think that societydefinitely treats people
differently, based on differentweights, for sure.
Speaker 1 (16:56):
Yeah, and so now I think people are more willing to
listen to me Because I'm Iwouldn't say I'm this great
success story by any means, butthat I've been through this,
I've done well and again, more.
Quote unquote normal people aremore willing to listen.
Speaker 2 (17:17):
Tammy, I would actually totally disagree with
you there for a second and I'llsay really.
Yeah, because I think you are.
You've said something that waslike I haven't been successful.
I think you've been out of theballpark successful.
Speaker 1 (17:30):
No, I know it's been successful, but just I'm not
like this like miraculous, Idon't know.
Speaker 2 (17:38):
But that's not what successful is.
I don't think I thinksuccessfully.
You've gone from.
Your confidence has changeddrastically.
Your ability to perceive what'schanging in you and to have an
influence on that and aninfluence on other people is way
different now than it was ayear and a half ago.
And whatever, at whateverweight, at whatever any kind of
(17:59):
sign on a scale or anything likethat, I think the way that your
life has changed and your mindhas grown through this process,
especially on behalf of otherpeople, I think is pretty darn
remarkable.
Speaker 1 (18:11):
And here we are, welcoming everyone to the.
Maria talks to Tammy to stop ornot yelling, but being like
shut up.
Why are you talking down onyourself, Guys?
This is almost a day to daything and for a together day to
day I love it, but it's true wegot to build each other up.
Speaker 2 (18:30):
I don't think that you're right, because I would
never talk to anybody else likethat.
You're right and you don't talkto anybody else like that.
That's the whole thing, is theonly thing I've ever heard you
say about anyone we've evertaken care of or anyone that we
were out dancing.
I think one of the nights thatwe were in Orlando and you
approached someone, or they haveI'm actually not sure if you
approached them or theyapproached you and y'all were
(18:50):
sharing stories about bariatricsurgery within three minutes.
Speaker 1 (18:53):
I just, I was trying to get everybody to dance with
you so I didn't have to.
Oh no, okay, truth revealed.
I love it.
That's wonderful.
Not that I don't want to dancewith you, but me, and salsa is
not my thing.
But yeah, I openly said that Ihad bariatric surgery.
She then said she had bariatricsurgery and now we follow each
other on Instagram and I hope wehave her on here one day,
(19:17):
because she's gone through evenplastic surgery and stuff.
So I'd love to talk to herabout that.
Speaker 2 (19:23):
Yeah, but you've become a resource for other
people, which I think is reallysomething to be proud of for the
rest of your life, because it'syou didn't just keep this to
yourself, even though it'sreally freaking hard to do that.
And that actually leads me toanother thing that I don't think
anyone who has gone throughthis process of bariatric
surgery or considering it owesanyone their story and owes
(19:44):
anyone any discussion about it.
So, if you don't want to talkabout it, you don't have to Like
you don't Absolutely, andthere's we've still have people
like.
Speaker 1 (19:57):
We interviewed my one of my family members and she
said some of her family stilldoesn't know that she's had it,
and so you're absolutely right.
Speaker 2 (20:05):
You don't have to talk about it if you don't want
to, and I think that's somethingthat I think people may feel
obligated to sometimes, or otherpeople may make them feel that
way of you're a certain size andI need to tell you what to do
about that and you need tolisten to me, and it's.
That's ridiculous.
No, you do not owe yourattention to anyone for that
discussion.
Speaker 1 (20:26):
And that kind of brings up a question to you is
how does someone who is notcompletely wanting to be like,
yeah, I've had bariatric surgerywhen people ask them how much
or how they've lost all theweight they have?
Sure, how do you, how do, howwould you respond to a person
that asked you that if youdidn't want to reveal that
(20:48):
you've had bariatric surgery?
Speaker 2 (20:50):
So I have a couple of people have asked me about this
and I think the advice iseither you know that it's my
business or if you'd like tohave a conversation about that,
let's.
Let's get into it another time,or I don't really want to talk
about that.
It depends you.
Again, you don't owe that storyto anyone.
If you want to talk about itand you feel comfortable sharing
with that person in the contextyou're in, that's great.
(21:13):
But if you don't, it's likesomebody asking you can you tell
me about your birth, how youbirthed your child, and can you
please tell me the details aboutit?
And you're like what?
Speaker 1 (21:22):
Yeah.
But I think even telling peoplelike I've just changed my
lifestyle is a valid enoughresponse, Because it's not a lie
either because you absolutelyhave changed your lifestyle.
Speaker 2 (21:33):
Absolutely and I just I don't.
I just really believe you donot owe that story and you do
not owe your experience toanyone If you feel comfortable
sharing it and you want to shareit again in at that time with
that person, because it alsojust might not be the right time
to share it.
If you're out in public atdinner with friends and somebody
asks you that and you don'twant to share it with the 10
(21:53):
people you're with, might not bethe right time.
Or it's a friend of a friend,or it's some random dude at a
convention who's in your face.
Like that just might not be theright interaction to share that
information because it mightnot be used wisely by the other
person.
It might be used to judge youor it might be used to shame you
or it might be used tointerject their opinion on it,
which really isn't welcome.
(22:13):
Or it might be a family memberat Thanksgiving dinner, and
again that.
The other thing to think aboutalso is I do want to mention
when we talk with others thereis a lot of policing that
happens around weight and thereis.
I have noticed sometimes thatpeople after making big changes
with their weight, even if it'swith surgery without surgery in
(22:36):
any way, they can be subject topolicing from other people about
what they eat or how they movetheir bodies or other things
that they're doing in their life.
Speaker 1 (22:47):
So right and I hate it so much.
That's why I loved our clinicso much is some of our patients
was like how do you eat around,danny, who is our, was our my
dietitian?
And I'm just like, look, danny,don't care what I'm eating.
Danny's more worried about whatDanny's eating.
And, yeah, you're right, and Ifeel like even some of our other
(23:09):
coworkers.
I felt like I was under amicroscope of what I ate.
But then the people that trulymattered and understood how
bariatric surgery works andeverything, and even you're like
, eat that piece of Halloweencandy.
But you're absolutely right forand that's another reason why I
didn't necessarily put it on abillboard that I was having
(23:30):
bariatric surgery, because Ididn't want everybody to be
nitpicking what I was eating ordrinking or if I was even going
out for a drink one night.
Speaker 2 (23:40):
And I think that's yeah, so that so, when people
have, if you have theseconversations with people, one
of the things that you'veexposed to me is that it's
important to set boundaries forwhat you want to discuss, who
you want to discuss that with,maybe even when or how long it's
going to take to talk about it,so that you're not just having
these like open endedconversations with people and
(24:02):
people get to talk, steer thedirection of the conversation
anywhere they want to go.
It's more up to you.
Does that like a maybereasonable way to have that
conversation if you want to haveit?
Speaker 1 (24:12):
Oh, absolutely, absolutely.
I feel sense surgery not onlywith conversations I'm able to
set boundaries, but also just mywhole life in general.
So absolutely, boundaries inall of our lives, in all aspects
is so important.
Speaker 2 (24:29):
Right, and that's in personal relationships outside
of this topic, but definitely onthis topic too.
And you actually have a friendwho we did an interview with,
jessica, who has a reallyexcellent description of how she
set some of those boundariesand that was definitely worth a
listen, I think, on this topicspecifically of how to support
yourself Report from othersafter surgery in a way that that
(24:51):
doesn't that.
Yeah, that just reallyaccomplishes setting boundaries
really well.
Speaker 1 (24:56):
Yeah, absolutely, and she teaches, she continues to
teach me every day, for sure.
Speaker 2 (25:01):
Yeah, and then the other thing that I think you
have definitely made it reallyclear to me and I have seen from
other people go through thisprocess is personalizing it and
conveying to other people whythis matters, like that you're
doing this for your kids, thatyou're doing this to feel better
, that you're doing this becauseyou know you want something out
of it that you can't getotherwise, and so it's not about
(25:22):
the way, necessarily, it's notabout a specific number or
something like that, but it'sabout a lifestyle you want to
have and personalizing it,because I really do think it's
this sort of idea of it's reallyeasy for us to hate on other
people if we think they're doingsomething we don't understand.
It's way yeah, it's like wayharder to hate someone if you
care about them and if you heartheir story.
Speaker 1 (25:45):
But even then, even if the words coming out of your
mouth is I'm wanting to loseweight because I want office
CPAP, I want my diabetes to bebetter, I want to move better,
sometimes people, even if theyare the closest people to you,
don't believe that and willstill say I think you're doing
this to lose weight, just tolook better.
(26:08):
So, there's another thingyou're dealing with is, even
though you're saying this andyou know why you're doing it,
people think otherwise, and thensometimes it almost makes you
question your oh yeah 100%.
Speaker 2 (26:24):
Okay, let me talk about that first set because
that is so interesting to me.
Because people like go to thegym to look better, they wear
makeup to look better, they wearclean clothes to look better if
they do their hair to lookbetter, but somehow if you do a
medical treatment to look better, all of a sudden that's a no,
that's a no go, it doesn'treally Plastic surgery, though a
(26:46):
lot of people are againstplastic surgery, even if it's
for a tummy tuck, that isliterally just to get rid of
yeast infections, because youjust can't get them to stop.
Speaker 1 (26:58):
People just think what they want to think, and it
is very hard.
I still struggle with itsometimes.
But, I have gotten better oflook.
If that's what you're going tothink, I can't change your mind.
And it's not worth my effort tochange your mind Definitely.
Speaker 2 (27:15):
And you mentioned something there.
You hit on something which isbasically it's okay to walk away
from a conversation or walkaway from, yeah, whether it's
with a health care provider orwhether it's with another person
in your life.
You again, you just don't owesomebody that attention if
they're not being respectful init.
Speaker 1 (27:33):
Absolutely, I've done that, even in a professional
aspect, and I probably shouldhave gotten fired for it, but I
literally walked up, or got upand walked out and said I need
to leave this conversationbefore I say something I don't
want to regret, becauseobviously you can't take
backwards.
But yeah, please, there arepeople out there that can be
(27:55):
your people.
That's something I also had tolearn, too is your job.
You're not stuck in your job.
You might be comfortable inyour job, but you're not happy.
Walk away from it.
Same with your relationships Ifyou are not getting what you
want out of it, it is okay towalk away, because you are your
number one priority, for sure.
Speaker 2 (28:17):
And there's a lot to that, I think that I think what
you're talking about is afterreasonable effort.
It's not like you yeah.
Speaker 1 (28:23):
Yeah, we're not talking.
Speaker 2 (28:26):
We're not advocating at all.
You have a conflict withsomeone and all of a sudden
they're dead to you.
That is not what we're talkingabout.
Nope, I'm glad you clarifiedthat.
Yes, but what I think you'retalking about is if, over and
over again, you're constantlyfacing the same lack of respect
or lack of boundaries or lack ofsupport or whatever it is, that
(28:48):
is an indicator of dignitybasically in that relationship,
then it's okay to no longerparticipate in that, because
that is damaging and that'ssuper damaging at the time
especially.
The other thing that I've seenwith people going through this
process that can work is becausethis can be such a touchy
subject for a lot of folks and alot of folks don't know how to
(29:11):
have this conversation very well.
It's like talking about moneyin a relationship which can be
really tough for people, and soI think that setting time aside
to talk with people who areimportant in your life, if you
want to share this informationwith them or if they want to ask
questions, I think this goesboth ways If you actually set
aside some time to talk about itand maybe go in with some
(29:35):
ground rules about what thatconversation is going to be
about, absolutely, and timelimit it Again.
Don't let it go for hours andgo all these different tangents,
but maybe just talk for 20minutes or 30 minutes and maybe
say let's talk again about thiswhen we have a chance, if
there's more questions, so thatpeople have a chance to really
(29:57):
chew on it a little bit.
And there's evidence that,especially for adults, we have
to hear something or interactwith an idea or information
anywhere between three and seventimes before it becomes
something that we can accept.
And I think that really applieswhen we're talking about
difficult subjects where there'snot just one clear answer or
(30:17):
there's not just one obvioussource of information that's
infallible.
There's a lot more to it thanthat, and I think so.
Yeah, if you're having complexconversations like this, either
from the person who's goingthrough it or the person who's
asking questions, having thosekind of respectful conversations
in a way that both of you havesafety, both of you have a way
(30:38):
out, both of you have a way toreconnect down the road and not
have to solve and fix everythingat that same time, may be a
better approach than justconfronting people or, yeah,
doing it whenever, wherever.
Speaker 1 (30:53):
Yeah, absolutely.
Why is it such a big?
Why do we have to think so hardon how to have this
conversation?
Speaker 2 (31:02):
It's just it's still.
Speaker 1 (31:03):
Hopefully in 10 years from now we won't.
We'll be looking back on thisand be like I can't believe how
ridiculous society was.
But that would be amazing.
Speaker 2 (31:12):
That would be amazing .
That would be amazing.
I hope that's the case.
I hope everything we're doingis obsolete in five or 10 years.
I hope, yeah, I hope so too,for sure.
Right, I hope so Because Ithink hopefully by that point
we'll be more enlightened.
I did have a couple of things Iwanted to leave people with,
though, because I definitelywant to make sure that people
who have gone through thisprocess have a couple of kind of
ground rules, I think, forthemselves to think about.
(31:35):
That's one that nobody shouldever share your story or share
your basically like your medicalinformation without your
permission.
That goes for other people too.
You should never be sharingsomebody else's story of
bariatric surgery or weightchanges without their permission
in a context where they wouldwant it shared.
And then who?
(31:55):
I hope that all of us have kindof an open mind about this,
because even professionals likeyou and me do not know
everything about weight and donot know everything about
bariatric surgery.
There's still a lot of researchon this topic and figuring out
how things work and what thingswork, so it's an evolving thing
that none of us know 100%.
Speaker 1 (32:14):
So just to record Absolutely, yeah, and so,
whatever we're saying, and ifsomeone else is saying something
different, not saying we're notwrong, not saying they're wrong
.
Yet there's so much to it forsure, exactly.
Speaker 2 (32:26):
And we will definitely know more in the
future about this topic,hopefully.
And then the last thing I wantto leave people with is that
your value does not depend onsomeone else's opinion of you or
external validation of you.
And then thank you, Shout thatlouder, Thank you for those in
the back.
No kidding In this topicespecially, I hear a lot of
(32:50):
times that people are made tofeel really awful by other
people's opinions or by otherpeople's perceptions of them,
and we are trying to create thiskind of podcast and to create
these kinds of supports forpeople to hopefully, even if one
person gets this out of it, Iwould be proud of what we're
doing here.
Tammy is that your value doesnot depend on somebody else's
(33:13):
opinion of you.
Speaker 1 (33:15):
And that is why I wanted to share you with the
world yet again.
Speaker 2 (33:20):
Tammy, oh, all right.
Speaker 1 (33:22):
Before we get all sappy here.
Thank you everybody forlistening.
Don't forget to follow us Headover to Instagram and look up
Corbariatrix if you want totouch base with us.
Otherwise, Maria, if we keptgoing, I'm just going to start
crying, oh, cry.
Speaker 2 (33:37):
Please don't cry, tammy.
This is supposed to be a happyepisode, absolutely.
Yes.
I'm so grateful to be here withyou guys, and I hope that you
tune in for the next episode tooSee you then Thank you Bye
Awesome.
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