July 11, 2024 • 46 mins
Imagine being dismissed by your healthcare provider, told that your choice for bariatric surgery is unnecessary and lazy. This is a reality many face, and in this episode of the Core Bariatrics Podcast, Tammie reads a message that dives into a listener's disheartening experience and examine the critical misconceptions that persist around bariatric surgery. Hear firsthand why informed support is essential and why you should never let uninformed criticism deter you from your health decisions. It's time we challenge these outdated views and advocate for compassionate, informed healthcare.
Ever wondered about the unspoken challenges post-bariatric surgery? Tammie discusses the unexpected shift from using food as an emotional crutch to potentially increased alcohol consumption. Dr. Iliakova and Tammie speak candidly about the personal struggles of adapting to a new lifestyle, the strain on long-term relationships, and the loneliness that can come when friendships change. Discover the importance of finding true friends who understand and support your journey. It's a raw and real conversation about being fundamentally different and finding your way through it all.
Lastly, we delve into the journey of self-expression and the fear of judgment. How do you find self-confidence in a world quick to judge? Through stories of personal growth, including dancing sober and managing societal perceptions, Dr. Iliakova and Tammie offer insights on embracing self-care and mental well-being. We discuss the delicate balance between self-care and selflessness, especially in high-pressure professions like medicine. With practical advice and heartfelt anecdotes, this episode is a compassionate guide to navigating life's challenges with grace and finding gratitude in supportive communities. Listen in and learn how to stand strong in your truth.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
Welcome to Core Bariatrics Podcast hosted by
bariatric surgeon Dr MariaIliakova and Tami LaCose,
bariatric coordinator and apatient herself.
Our goal is building andelevating our community.
The Core Bariatrics Podcastdoes not offer medical advice,
diagnosis or treatment.
On this podcast, we aim toshare stories, support and
(00:22):
insight into the world beyondthe clinic.
Let's get into it.
Okay, maria?
so we have started getting fanmail off of Buzzsprout and it is
super crazy and it's superawesome, so I wanted to share
one with you, okay, yes, please,so bear with my stutters if I
have any, because reading justAnyways.
So here we go.
(00:43):
This lady says I just foundyour podcast and I'm currently
on episode three.
I just wanted to share a storyof something that happened
recently.
I am currently on class numberseven of 10 to get gastric
bypass surgery.
I hurt my back exercising andhad to go to urgent care.
I told the doctor there I wascurrently in the process of
(01:04):
getting surgery.
She said without hesitation youare too young, I'm 41.
You can do this on your ownwithout surgery.
She continues to say.
The doctor said I don'tunderstand all these surgeries.
Americans are so lazy.
Oh my gosh, okay.
She was acting as this was theeasy way out.
(01:26):
The thing that bothered me morewas the fact that she assumed I
was lazy.
Ain't that the truth?
He continues on saying firstoff, I work in a warehouse where
I walk seven to eight miles pershift with constantly lifting
boxes of 25 to 50 pounds,nonstop, all shift.
Oh my gosh.
She says I'm lifting basicallyone of these units every four to
(01:48):
10 seconds.
Good gravy, that's a wholeworkout.
Oh my God Okay.
She continues to say.
Secondly, I have four kids athome who I care for, so I'm in
no way lazy.
It's the fact that that adoctor, who should be on my team
or at least support me,basically put me down, calling
me lazy and saying that thesesurgeries, these types of
(02:10):
surgeries, are unnecessary.
Anyway, I'm grateful to findyour podcast and, even though
I'm only three episodes in, I'velearned a lot and appreciate
the information you are sharing.
Yay, thank you.
If this person is listening.
I want to say thank you forlistening and thank you for
writing in, because a thingobviously Tell me your thoughts,
because I know you have some PGor No-ish.
Speaker 2 (02:35):
PG.
Speaker 1 (02:37):
I have what, even with my primary care doctor, who
I do very much so enjoy and Ihave always before, even way
before I actually did havesurgery I wanted to go through
the process and I wanted him toforward some office visit notes
to that program and he justseemed very eerie about it.
Yeah, I don't know, and I eventalking to people, health care
(03:01):
providers now that I'm back inthe hospital, the easy way out
thing is still very much a thingand it's so hard to not get
frustrated about so hard.
Speaker 2 (03:13):
Yeah, I agree.
I agree, and I think part of itis when we don't know something
, when we're not familiar withsomething, it's scary to us.
Imagine a new technology, likewhen you first got your iPhone.
You may have been reallyexcited, but you were also like
how do I use this thing?
And skeptical or I don't know.
Like anytime you use a newtechnology or you learn
something, you're like I don'tknow, that doesn't sound right,
(03:34):
I don't know about this.
And for a lot of reasons, peopleapproach bariatric surgery that
way, even if they're in thehealthcare field.
Sometimes, especially ifthey're in the healthcare field.
We've seen this from all kindsof people and I continue to see
this all the time where peopleare trying to school us, for
instance, on how pointless thesesurgeries are and how easy it
is to lose weight and how muchof a not big deal this is.
(03:55):
And, to be honest with you, Iwish it were true.
I wish that we didn't need todo surgery for this.
I wish it were easy to solve.
I wish 60% of the populationdidn't have extra weight.
That'd be cool, but that's justnot the case and I don't know.
Here's the thing that kind ofalways I just always have a
question about is as a doctor oras a healthcare provider in
(04:19):
general, if you don't know aboutsomething in medicine.
If you don't know aboutsomething in medicine, why do we
?
Speaker 1 (04:28):
not have the curiosity to ask and learn more
about it and just project youropinions on patients Right.
Speaker 2 (04:34):
Because I'm like if I hear about something that,
let's say, I'm not an expert ineverything, right, but if the
heart doctors, if thecardiologists that I'm
interacting with is like, hey,we've got this new thing that we
use and it works really well,and I'm like, okay, cool, I
don't know anything about it, ifI want to have an opinion about
it, I'm going to start learningabout it, ask questions, learn
(04:55):
how it works, maybe go evenwatch how it works or watch some
videos on it or something.
Talk to someone who does it.
Why on earth would I just sitthere and say, oh, that's
garbage, that's trash.
You're lazy to use this deviceinstead of using some other
older device that we knowalready works.
What is the deal?
Speaker 1 (05:15):
there.
Well, I do think that'shealthcare in a nutshell,
honestly.
Let's be honest, I feel likeeven the drug reps that come in
or this is the best product everand we're like, oh, here's
another to learn about andwhatever.
So we tend to push it asidewhen in reality, 20 years down
the line, we find out it'sactually a pretty good thing.
And I'm really this whole easyway out thing.
(05:36):
Obviously we have an episode onthe easy way out and how it's
not the easy way out, and forone for this lady specifically,
I really want her to know.
I hope this person, this doctoror anybody does not change your
opinion on doing this foryourself.
And it's not the easy way out.
(05:57):
A lot of people do think it isRight, but I think a lot of
people don't have surgerybecause they are afraid of what
people think.
Speaker 2 (06:05):
Oh, totally, because imagine like you're already
having to feel uncomfortablebecause we're now focusing on
the one thing.
That's like super stigmatizedand you need to feel bad about
all the time anyway.
And now you're taking actionsto do something about it.
And now you're doing somethingthat people will judge no matter
what you do.
Speaker 1 (06:23):
There's really no winning here?
Speaker 2 (06:24):
There's just no winning.
People are going to think it'sbad to do it.
People think it's bad not to doit and, honestly, I was just
having a conversation with oneof my family members and he had
a great saying about this, whichis everyone has opinions, or
opinions are like navelsEveryone's got them and there's
a worse version of this, which,anyway, but the whole idea of
being like everyone is going tohave an opinion, and part of the
(06:47):
reason why you and I arechatting about this and are
getting this kind of fan mailthat's so cool that we are
getting yeah, it is cool Is,yeah, it's because we're trying
to share the message, and sharethe message from a really
informed standpoint.
We've taken care of hundreds ofpatients.
Both of us have been involvedin creating a program and
building a program and getting aprogram through reaccreditation
(07:09):
, which is really challenging todo through ASMBS, and so we
know our stuff, okay, andthere's a lot of people in this
industry that we've interviewedas well that really know their
stuff even more than you and Ido by a fair share.
Oh, absolutely the thing.
Maybe we're all crazy, maybethe thousands of us that are in
this industry helping peoplelose weight this way and not
(07:29):
just lose weight but actuallyget off of diabetes medications
and be able to not have to havesurgery for their knees because
their knees get better whenthere is loss this way.
Maybe we're all crazy, but whatif we're not Exactly?
What if we're actually doingsomething that helps people in a
way that nothing else can,which all the data suggests that
(07:51):
?
So it's easy to to deny, andit's easy to be skeptical and
not educate yourself and toignore this and to call people
lazy.
It's super easy to do that.
What's not easy is to do itanyway, and that's why I respect
the heck out of you and out ofthe tens of thousands higher
(08:11):
than that, hundreds of thousandsof people who do go through
these surgeries safely and doreally well with them every year
.
I think it's amazing thatpeople have to battle this from
their own doctors and they do itanyway.
Speaker 1 (08:23):
Yeah, yeah, absolutely I.
That's why I want to continueto do this and continue to make
awareness just of the good, thebad, the ugly so people cause it
really has changed my life somuch, a lot for the good.
But today we're going to talkabout the not so good.
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (08:42):
Yeah, and that's important, because I think we
are not trying to show this as arosy only picture.
I think we're trying to besuper realistic that with any
change that people go through,there's going to be positive,
there's going to be negative,and, yeah, let's.
So.
What are we going to talk abouttoday?
Speaker 1 (08:57):
We're going to talk about my mental health, have
things that you can talk aboutto just with your journey in
life, obviously and surgeon, ohmy goodness, I've always talked
to you about I've always.
Before surgery, I did so muchresearch.
I to and from work one houreach way.
(09:17):
I was listening to pod well,more so YouTube videos and just
whatever I could, and so I feltlike I was prepared that for
anything that came my way,whether it came to relationships
or gaining weight or just allof it, and that I was all wrong.
Speaker 2 (09:31):
I think you were more prepared than most people, but
I don't know.
There's a limit to how preparedyou can be until you actually
go through it.
Speaker 1 (09:39):
Journey.
100% is different.
I actually had a friendrecently say I wish my mom was
doing the surgery so that Icould know how it goes for her.
So I can do it and I'm sitting.
I'm like that's not how itworks.
Everybody's is literallydifferent.
She may become intolerant andoh, I'm not going to do that
because she became lactoseintolerant.
(10:00):
You could not.
But during my mental healtheval I was encouraged to stay
away from alcohol.
Due to just mine and myfamily's risk factors, alcohol
would never be a problem becauseI never really cared to get
drunk.
I grew up really quick, reallyearly, and I was hanging out
with my brother that was fouryears older than me, so I think
(10:22):
I got my drinking out of mysystem a lot earlier than.
But anyways, never have reallycared to get drunk.
So I didn't think alcohol wouldbecome a problem.
And it has.
It has or has or did.
Speaker 2 (10:36):
I'm still working through it and yeah, that's a
really big thing to share.
So first of all, thank you,because that's not easy.
Can you tell me more?
Speaker 1 (10:49):
Yeah, obviously you can't eat anymore.
You can't eat your feelings,and so I was having big, big
feelings, big problems.
My husband and I have beentogether almost a decade.
We met each other literally atour lowest point.
He was just getting divorcedand living in his brother's
house and I was living in lowincome housing, being a single
(11:09):
mom going to college.
Both had absolutely nothing andwe built our life a pretty good
one.
We both have very decent jobsand I thought nothing could come
between us.
When we got married I I wasbigger.
We were both kind of homebodies.
Now I want to go out and dothings and he has said in the
past he was not ready for that.
(11:30):
180 of you want to go out anddo things, even if you are in
sweatpants and in a hoodie,where before I wouldn't want to
go out and do things.
So now I want to go out and dothings and, as adults, most of
the time when you go out and dothings, there's alcohol involved
.
Now my tolerance.
I did tell you in the past thatit didn't change much.
(11:53):
I've realized it has Not crazywise, but you do get drunk
quicker, obviously.
So that is one reason why wetell people to stay away from
alcohol Not stay away from itbut be cautious with it because
one drink, especially with abypass, can literally have you
(12:16):
toast.
And with me going out and doingthings and hanging out with
people that don't have kids, Iwas drinking a lot more, even
Wednesday night.
One Wednesday night I got offof work and I work in a hospital
.
It was a hard day.
I told my husband I was goingto the bar and went to the bar
and closed it down on aWednesday.
Speaker 2 (12:35):
So it just became.
Speaker 1 (12:39):
I can't eat my feelings because stuff with my
husband was going bad per se,but not great yeah there's some
challenges there, for sure.
Yeah, and again, with that I wasdrinking more to not feel those
feelings.
And another thing we're allwarned that our friendships are
(13:00):
going to change yourrelationships, you're going to
lose friends, whatever.
But you ready for this?
I was prepared, I was preparedfor losing my friend or losing
some friends, relationshipschanging, but I was not prepared
and I don't think we haveprepared anybody for the
loneliness that comes with that.
And it's a domino effect whenyou have the same friend group
(13:24):
as other friends, cause they'reall in the friend group.
So that is another reason ofdrinking, of just I don't have
as many friends.
And now I'm hanging out withthese people that don't have
kids, that can go out on aWednesday night and get drunk
and draining away those thoughtsand feelings, and nobody
prepares you for that loneliness.
Speaker 2 (13:44):
That is yeah that is so real honestly, tammy, and I
know that's not easy to sharebecause that's super private,
but I think it actually.
I think a lot of people gothrough this and we couch it
sometimes as, oh, you replaceone thing with another, but I
think this is a little bitdifferent than replacement and I
think a lot of people oh manwhen you go through this, like
(14:04):
you said, like so many thingschange, it's a bit of a domino
effect and you're absolutelyright, I hadn't really thought
about how much when adults goout alcohol is involved, for
sure, everything, even if you goto dinner.
Speaker 1 (14:19):
I'm having margarita.
Speaker 2 (14:21):
That's right, that's right and that's just normal.
Normal like adult going out forthe most part right.
If you're out at a party, ifyou're out with friends, if
you're out at sports doingtailgating or something, or out
at a game there's that's themost common thing is to have a
beer in your hand or haveanother drink in your hand.
So, and the other thing is, ahuge majority of population has
not gone through this surgeryand does not have this same
(14:43):
right.
They can yeah, they can have adrink or two and not have the
same effect as somebody who doeshave the surgery.
So it's hard.
It's like yet another thingthat reminds you that you're
different now.
Speaker 1 (14:53):
Yeah, we've never actually said that you are
different.
Yeah, even if you're adifferent person, but, like you,
are different from others.
Speaker 2 (15:02):
Yeah, you are.
We haven't In in a fundamentalway, like in a fundamental way
that can never be changed, thatcan never go back and you didn't
save my stomach to stitch itback in there, tammy, you were
specifically.
I did.
I carry it with me everywhere Itravel.
No, that would be so crazy, butyou're like you're.
You are fundamentally differentthan most people in a way that
(15:23):
other people can't relate toyeah, and it doesn't matter how
much you tell people, it doesn'tmatter how much they try to
understand, I think like theywon't.
Speaker 1 (15:30):
Well, it's so hard to get people to understand,
because you don't understand.
So, like people, some peopletell me they work.
Now the wrong.
I've realized the the wrongpeople are telling me I'm a
totally different person, butthey can't tell me why or how.
Like how am I a differentperson?
But then the people that are,which I this is another pinpoint
(15:52):
I wanted to make of youactually figure out who your
true friends are, because whoare not intimidated or jealous
of you and they see the ways youare changing as truly for the
best.
I actually found this quotethat I really liked, that there
are people that will neversupport you because it's you.
There are people that willalways support you because it's
(16:12):
you, and you have to find thosepeople.
And so those, those people thatalways will support me for me,
have said you haven't changed,you just have your way of
thinking.
Is changing Personality ofhonestly, this personality of
being big and bubbly has alwaysbeen me, but now it's to the
(16:35):
whole world, not just my closefriends.
So some people are finding myvery bubbly-ness to everybody
coming off as flirty.
Speaker 2 (16:47):
Interesting.
Speaker 1 (16:48):
Oh yeah.
Speaker 2 (16:49):
Interesting.
I think confidence definitelyis misread a lot of times, or oh
man.
That's an interesting can ofworms that we have opened here,
Because that personality changeit's not like a personality
changes, it's almost.
I just really love what yousaid there.
You're now more comfortableletting the public in on that or
letting other people in on that, not just the people that are
(17:09):
close to you, and I think that'ssuper true, because when we're
comfortable, more comfortablewith ourselves, we're more
comfortable sharing our trueselves with more people rather
than trying to hide it from themajority of people.
Speaker 1 (17:21):
So that's a really interesting I have always been a
big bubbly person.
I love dancing, I love justbeing cute.
I've seen it.
Me no, but now I do it anywhere.
If I were before, I wouldhonestly before I would have to
get pretty tipsy to dancebecause I didn't like any
(17:44):
attention on me at all and I'mlike man, put me in a I don't
need at the baseball field.
If they're playing a good song,I'll do it.
Speaker 2 (17:53):
I love it.
You're like bring it, becausenow you're not so worried that
people are judging you or peopleI think right, or people are.
Yeah.
You're like I don't care, likepeople can judge me and I still
feel good about myself.
Speaker 1 (18:02):
But then people look at that negatively, so tell me
that.
So that's where I'm struggling.
Speaker 2 (18:08):
I've changed for the best, but I don't think we can
ever control other people right,that is something I'm learning.
Yeah, and this is a lifelongthing.
I say this as if it's oh yes, Icome from Mount Wisdom and I
know these things.
You're both growing, yeah, andI think it's hard because I also
I come from a background andjust an environment where
(18:32):
control is a really big deal andalways being self-control
that's a big deal, but alsoexerting control on other people
and trying to find a way to dothat in situations.
And, to be honest with you, Iprobably in part became a
surgeon because I'm drawn tosituations in which I can
control things to some extent,even though, ironically, I think
(18:53):
in the OR, like you, are thereby the grace of a lot of times.
90% of the time things areunder control and things are
going well, and then 10% of thetime 5% to 10% of the time you
are very much relying on a lotof coordination and teamwork and
help.
Speaker 1 (19:09):
Yeah, and you're learning how to control or
navigate, not being in controlor something being out of your
control.
Speaker 2 (19:17):
Exactly, exactly, yes , because I think, like true
control or true it's not eventhe control is the wrong word,
but true, like management almostof a situation is having trust
both ways, having trust in otherpeople and other people having
trust in you that you're allgoing to have each other's backs
and you all have a shared,unified goal that you're going
to go towards together, andwhether that's in the OR because
(19:39):
someone's not doing well, orwhether that's in a friendship
where people respect and loveeach other and want to be there
together and want to have a goodtime together.
I don't know.
I don't know that it's thatdifferent.
To be honest with you, becauseI think we do sometimes think of
this idea of control, ratherthan how can we be on the same
page?
Yeah, and I don't know, I'm notwise about this, but I just I
(20:04):
think a lot of it is you reallycannot control what other people
think or do.
Speaker 1 (20:09):
Can only control our reaction to things.
My friend actually made a goodpoint the other day.
She was saying she has afive-year-old son and anybody
that has any boys in generalknow they're just crazy.
But she apparently said to himone day like you are frustrating
me.
But then she had to rethink toherself no, I am making myself
(20:31):
frustrated, his actions arehelping that, but I am getting
myself frustrated.
I am only in control of.
I am in control of my feelingsand how I react to things.
And I'm like you have a goodpoint there and I've realized
now because my flirtate the waypeople perceive my friendliness
as flirtation now has comearound in my very small town as
(20:56):
um, flirting and beingunfaithful.
And I'm just telling you thisnow and I have not told you that
previously, and so I have thepast me would have just blown up
on on facebook, making afacebook status or doing all
these things where actually atthis time, facebook statuses
have been being made about me.
Um, and I've realized sometimeyou just don't react.
(21:22):
It's hard not to every day.
I'm like I just want to give itto them, but I need to not
react because it's not going toget anywhere and I need to not
let it affect me because I knowdeep down I've not done anything
wrong and people are making mefeel like I've done something
wrong.
Speaker 2 (21:44):
That's super immature of you, I think, but it's tough
because there's always thingsthat can provoke us and for a
lot of reasons, we have certaintriggers or certain hooks.
But you're absolutely right,it's up to us whether or not we
react to them.
And the thing is, it's not evenso much like whether we react
to them, it's what outcome.
We're adults, right, we canactually choose what outcome we
(22:07):
want.
To some extent, right and doespiling on and adding to the fuel
like adding fuel to the fire?
Does that make the fire go away?
Speaker 1 (22:15):
Usually, not Exactly and actually I have learned this
whole scenario has come fullcircle and things were actually
because, as I said, alcohol hasbecome a problem, was did
whatever and during thisspecific time.
I don't remember any of this,so I did black out and so I was
(22:35):
just going off of what otherpeople were telling me and third
hand telling me and otherpeople come to find out the
initial accusation wasn't evencorrect.
I've been in my head for a fewweeks and so the truth came out
because it all came full circle.
(22:56):
And now even my husband and Iare just laughing because it's
like people are ridiculousbecause who I was apparently
being flirtatious to, or extrato is a person.
Even my husband looked at meand is like dude.
I don't think so.
No, I don't think so.
(23:17):
I've been hard on my mentalhealth, because that's a lot of
things at once.
Speaker 2 (23:24):
That's a whole bandwagon.
Speaker 1 (23:25):
My marriage- and then people adding on to the
marriage struggle is a lot.
It's a lot.
Speaker 2 (23:32):
And to be fair like we all live in small communities
of some kind or another, likewhether it's we live in a small
town and that's just what thedynamic is.
But I moved to New Yorkrecently to start an MBA program
and it's gone really well.
But we also have a smallcommunity of people doing the
MBA program and there's a bunchof other things and you always
there is always an inner circleor inner circles that you're
(23:53):
part of and the dynamics therecan be really tricky sometimes.
So I don't think any of us areimmune to this effect of when we
go through really big lifechanges, especially through
bariatric surgery, yourrelationships with people are
going to change and people aregoing to judge and people are
going to make assumptions, andyou're already going through a
(24:13):
lot of changes that you have todeal with even without any of
that, and then on top of it,you're absolutely right Like if
loneliness starts to be an issueif the things, the people and
the activities that you used todo are changing drastically.
Speaker 1 (24:27):
it can be really unsettling Very very much so,
and so this only solidified whyI wanted to do this podcast and
why I haven't been as active onour core bariatrics community
Facebook page.
But I need to be.
This is the time that I wantour community and I want other
(24:48):
people to have our community,because in my small town not a
lot of people have had bariatricsurgery, so I don't have those,
and obviously, the program thatI went to and had surgery at
I'm no longer a part of, so Idon't have a support system
either.
I want us to be able to createthat space for people that are
(25:08):
having this loneliness andknowing that they're not the
only one feeling this, and Iwant to shout the roost top of
now.
There is nothing fricking wrongwith you that making you littler
for now being more confident,now having more energy, now just
doing out and going out anddoing the things you want to do
(25:31):
or not doing the things youdon't want to do, because I feel
something I'm not afraid to sayno, even my husband saying no,
and so maybe that has becomeanother thing of if I didn't
want to that day, even if I saidI would previously, I'm not
doing it.
I am not putting on a smilethat day to go hang out with
people, even if they are my bestfriends.
(25:52):
If you are my best friends, youshould be like are you okay?
Is your mental health okay?
And if I say no, you're justlike okay, we'll talk about it
later.
Or if you want it to do not letpeople make you feel better or
worse or horrible for becoming abetter person.
I think a lot of us that havestruggled with obesity already
(26:14):
struggle with ourself-confidence.
Of us that have struggled withobesity already struggle with
our self-confidence, self-doubtand all of that.
Don't doubt yourself.
Don't doubt yourself andcontinue to do, but also be
self-aware.
Like me, drinking all the timemight've been fun.
(26:34):
It's not a good thing.
So being self-aware People havesaid hey, going to the bar with
so-and-so who drinks all thetime and doesn't have kids
probably is a good thing.
Now I could have turned aroundand been you're just jealous.
You did a bit whatever that wascoming from a good place and I
needed to be self-aware and.
But if someone's just tellingyou you've changed, you're
(26:56):
different, I, I just don't feellike we're the same friend,
whatever that.
That's a them problem.
I don't feel like morals change.
I don't think we deeply insidechange.
I think our outside justchanged and how we project
ourself and you're right.
Speaker 2 (27:14):
so so you're right.
Very few people change valuesthrough this process, but very
many people change how theyinteract with the world.
Yeah, what the world gets tosee of them, who gets to?
Speaker 1 (27:27):
see that and people don't like boundaries and people
don't like some, people don'tlike people controlled Whatever.
Speaker 2 (27:36):
But yeah, boundaries people who have good mental
health and have the ability tosay no and have the ability to
say yes with mindfulness arereally difficult to control.
Speaker 1 (27:46):
I feel like I am very , very.
I have good sight forgaslighting now.
Like I can tell you're tryingto gaslight me from a million
miles away, type of thing.
Speaker 2 (28:00):
That is an interesting statement, and
that's an interesting thing.
So what is gaslighting?
Because this is a term I hadn'teven really understood until a
couple of months ago myself.
So what do you mean by?
Speaker 1 (28:10):
that.
So I would actually have tolook up the actual definition to
you, would actually have tolook up the actual definition to
me.
But to me it is you telling mesomething that even you know is
wrong or that is not true.
But you truly making me feeland making me question if it's
true or like for me.
(28:31):
People have said you've changedand I've changed for the worst.
Let's say that and I'm like no,I think I have changed for
better, but the way that theykeep digging and digging and
then you got me thinking thatmaybe I have changed for the
worst.
Speaker 2 (28:49):
So making you believe something that actually isn't
true, right.
Yeah, I think that's exactlythat's what I've.
That's what I understand ofgaslighting too is trying to
make somebody believe analternative reality, basically
something that's not true.
I agree, and I think that's andthat's tough, because I think,
like you said, we all want to beself-aware and we do want to be
(29:09):
open, especially in our closerelationships, to people telling
us like hey, something doesn'tseem right, what's going on?
We don't want to be stuck inour ways in a way that other
people don't get to have animpact on us.
Then we're just robots or supernarcissistic or something.
I don't think that's goodeither.
But I think there's adifference between somebody
saying, hey, I think thatsomething's not right, or hey, I
(29:31):
didn't like how you treated mewhen you did that, or something
like that.
I think those things are superwelcome For me, 100%.
Speaker 1 (29:38):
I want constructive criticism.
I'm realizing a lot of theworld doesn't like constructive
criticism because they but mepersonally.
If I hurt your feelings, I wantto know, but so I look to
gaslight someone means tomanipulate another person into
doubting their own perceptions,experiences or understanding of
an event, Telling me that I havechanged for the worse and
(29:58):
actually getting me to believethat, and I think sometimes that
can trigger a conversation ofwhat do you mean by that, like
how does this affect you?
Speaker 2 (30:09):
But if it's just to be like I don't like this new
version of you because it makesme feel unwelcome or it makes me
feel threatened or whatever,then that's you're right.
That's not something you canchange.
Speaker 1 (30:17):
Someone coming up to me and being like you're
drinking too much, even thoughmy perspective, my perspective
at that time, was I'm justhaving fun and I'm more for me.
That's another thing we have to.
We do need to figure out, we doneed to be a little bit selfish
, because I know back then notat all like doing anything for
myself was limited.
(30:38):
But there is a fine line ofdoing things for yourself and
your mental health and and,honestly, just being selfish
it's okay to be a little selfish.
It's okay to go get your hairdone and spend a little extra
money on that.
It's okay to go get your nailsdone.
It's okay to go to dinner withyour friend.
It's not okay to be like I'mgoing to have fun 24 seven while
(31:03):
you sit home with the kids anddon't have life, or even see
your wife.
Speaker 2 (31:05):
So, yes, that's a really big yes and that's
actually a really critical thing, I think, because I have
struggled with this forever.
As a like surgery resident, forinstance, I never, ever, had
had any self-care the most thingI would ever do is work out.
I got you your first pedicure,you paid for it, but it was
literally one of my.
Speaker 1 (31:26):
I think I had a total of three pedicures in my life
and now I see you with yournails done all the time and I
love it.
Speaker 2 (31:32):
My nails are done, and it isn't just a money thing.
It literally is a bit of aself-respect thing, to me at
least, and, believe me, I am notjudging anyone on what they
decide to do or not do withtheir body in terms of self-care
.
Everyone has a differentversion of that, but I can tell
you the guilt that I have feltwhen I was busy, super busy or
(31:53):
super pressured with otherthings, and I'm not even a
parent.
I can imagine what it feelslike as a parent, like you've
talked about, of any money orany time being spent on me
instead of other things thatrely on me or are important to
do.
But, to be honest with you,that left me feeling completely
high and dry all the time.
All the time it meant I wasn'tgetting enough sleep, it meant I
(32:14):
wasn't eating well, it meant Ididn't have energy because I
wasn't exercising well, it meantthat I was more of a train
wreck always than I wanted to be, and it meant I wasn't taking
care of other people as well asI could, because you weren't
taking care of yourself.
Exactly Because I was running onempty all the time, and I think
a lot of people run on emptyall the time, and imagine if you
(32:34):
ran your car that way.
Right, Well don't ask myhusband On empty it would stop
working.
Okay, I've done that to a carbefore.
I forgot to change my oil forforever when I was younger.
I just always have an E and Iliterally stole the car on the
highways in a little town inMissouri.
It was great when I was 18.
But you learn right.
You learn that's not the way totreat objects in your life.
(32:55):
You can't just run everythingon bone dry and expect it to
function.
But we still treat ourselvesthat way sometimes and I'm
really glad you said that,because okay, so I'm sorry I'm
going on a bit of a tangent here.
I recently met somebody who's Ilove to my tangents.
I know I'm sorry I will stoptalking, I promise, but I
recently met somebody who's verybusy and and doesn't be outside
(33:17):
of medicine, but also likesuper busy, super pressured.
And as I was learning aboutthis person, he was explaining
to me like how, what he does forworking out, and he has a hobby
of playing guitar and does alot of things, and pretty much
every time I interact with himhe's like work, either working
really hard or doing somethingthat's self-care.
(33:38):
I actually really admire that,because the understanding of
what it takes to fuel yourselfjust like a car or just like any
other vehicle fortransportation, understanding
that you are a finite resource,understanding that you require
some care in order to be able todo other things in your life,
(33:59):
is a part of growing up.
It's a part of understandingright Like if it's not modeled
for you by other people in yourchildhood.
Speaker 1 (34:06):
Oh my gosh Right.
Speaker 2 (34:07):
Yes, Because I also grew up with a parent or parents
that just didn't take care ofthemselves like that either.
Workaholics right, but theconsequences of that can be
really bad, even if they comedown the road even if they don't
come immediately and it meansthat you burn out, you're not
performing at your best.
Other things start to suffer,and that's just in work.
(34:30):
In your family, it means yourfamily members can suffer as a
result, and I don't know, so I'mjust glad you brought that up,
because I think that's somethingthat has taken me a really long
time to wrap my head around.
So I'm glad that you'rebringing that up because I
relate to that a lot.
Speaker 1 (34:44):
Well, and this just proves that bringing this full
circle of mental health has alot to do with self-care.
And yeah, so I have Definitelyhit my low of low.
I think I'm going up from goingup now, because I think the
last time I talked to you you'relike, how are you, tammy?
(35:05):
And I just started bawling andyou're like, oh my gosh, what's
wrong?
And just, unfortunately, me andyou, we are really busy and
it's hard to have longerconversations, especially with
my kids crazy all around.
But I think I have hit low oflow.
But I'm also a very self and Ithink you could agree I'm a very
self aware person.
I always have been, because ofthe mother that I had, that I
(35:32):
always had to be self aware ofmy emotions, my whatever.
This didn't last very long.
This whole drinking thingdidn't last very long and
honestly, I don't think alcoholis the problem, because I still
just I don't love it by anymeans.
I think it's my mental healththat I need to figure out how to
cope with those things, becausenow when I was working with you
(35:56):
we were working in a biggercity that I would make sure my
nails on two weeks or so when Igot paid.
Speaker 2 (36:02):
I would always be like.
Speaker 1 (36:03):
Hey, I need to go hang out with Maria just for
some time and now that where myjob is and my hours, I don't
have that.
I'm not in a big city, so mymental health?
I just went to alcohol wherenow I need to go therapy and
alcohol is accessible.
Speaker 2 (36:21):
I think we forget sometimes that we don't.
It's not like you can just goon a hike anytime you want to,
or hang out in a bigger citywhenever you want to.
You have three kids, you havestuff to do, you have work.
You have a finite schedule too.
So I think that I think beingsuper realistic about the fact
that what's nearby and that'salcohol for a lot of people, or
drugs potentially, or a numberof other things, like some
(36:44):
people start to have a lot ofsexual activity that they didn't
before, or even gambling ofscratch offs Correct, and I'm
not.
I am not saying any of this tohave any kind of moral hopefully
people don't think I have amoral say on this, I don't but
just to be aware of the factthat when we are struggling and
when we're going through a lotof change, it's much, much
(37:05):
easier to try to find comfort inthings that maybe you wouldn't
otherwise.
And especially, what would yousay actually, okay, tami, if you
were to give advice to someonewho sees you going through
something, a friend or neighboror someone in your community
what advice would you give themto either be helpful or just at
(37:28):
least not harmful?
Speaker 1 (37:30):
Find that person to talk to, because, heck, even
having that conversation withyou and just I don't know you,
just you really do uplift me andI feel like we're both each
other's therapists.
But that's true and I feel likeif I saw someone struggling
like that, I'd be like I'm herefor you, what can I do to help
(37:51):
you?
And I would also, just I wouldbe open and honest with them,
like I needed some other friendsto be of.
Like this is becoming a problem.
Be of like this is becoming aproblem.
What can I do to help you?
And unfortunately, and I knownot, everybody has.
Speaker 2 (38:10):
This is just finding that person to help you, even
one person, and it does just oneperson.
It really like I have a fewfriends you're one of them that
when I just had quite the yearin the past we both have, yeah,
gone on, but you have definitelybeen one of those anchors to me
and anchor in a good way likeanchor in reality and anchor in
understanding that there's stillwonder and beauty and growth
(38:32):
and amazing things going on inmy life and I'm lucky enough to
have you in my life and have afew other people that are that
kind of person for me.
Like you said, not everybodyhas them, but it is worth
thinking about, especially forthe people who haven't had
surgery, for anyone listeningwho has not had surgery.
Thinking about the few peopleat least a few people in your
(38:52):
life, like one to a few, whocould serve as that for you, and
maybe even having aconversation with them ahead of
time or having them listen tothis episode ahead of time.
Speaker 1 (39:06):
Because I will say, though, that people change.
That's true, Cause my this iswhere my biggest thing, my
bestest, bestest friend, that wethought nothing could ever it
did.
Speaker 2 (39:16):
It did.
So, yeah, you went through thattoo, like with your family
member.
Speaker 1 (39:20):
Yes, and so that's another thing with this whole
platform.
Look, if you don't have anybodyto turn to send us a message on
Instagram or whatever, I lookat my messages the messages
usually and I'll share them withyou.
But I even check in on peoplethat have messaged us in the
past and whatnot, and just like,hey, how are you doing?
(39:41):
So?
We need to be that person foryou.
We be that person for you.
we're pretty uplifting andthat's yeah we haven't heard it
all but we've heard a lot forsure, and continue to yeah very
much.
Speaker 2 (39:51):
We've heard a lot and I think it's really I don't
know.
I'm just gonna, okay, I'm gonnashare a story that may be a
little irrelevant here, but Ithink, yeah, I'll share it.
It it's a little, yes, Okay.
So as a when you're doingsurgery on call and I've now
been traveling all over thecountry to do that, since I'm
also doing like an MBA- programanyway.
So there's a lot going on, andrecently I was taking an object
(40:13):
out of someone's bottom becausethey had put something there and
it got stuck, okay, and thatcan be super embarrassing and it
is a situation nobody wants tobe in.
Nobody wants to be there.
The patient doesn't want to bethere, I don't necessarily want
to be there, the nurses don'twant to be there, nobody wants
to be there Nobody wants us tobe the reality that we're
dealing with.
(40:36):
But I took the thing out of theperson's bottom at the bedside
and it was extremelyuncomfortable for everyone, but
we did it.
But we did it and we did itwith grace, we did it with
humility.
The person was watching a videoon their phone so that they
could be distracted, so theycould be relaxed, and everything
, while we avoided the OR andthe guy.
Afterwards it was actuallyreally sweet.
He asked me if he could hug meand he was crying because he was
(40:59):
.
Yeah, he was so grateful andjust wanted to say thanks.
Basically because he was likethat was a really humiliating
experience for me, but you madeit pleasant as possible.
Basically, it was like and youweren't rude and you weren't
mean and you didn't judge me,you just did your job and it was
really sweet.
Because I think sometimes weforget that we've all been in
(41:20):
embarrassing situations.
We've all been when somethingwas like okay, maybe it wasn't
something up our butts that wasstuck, but we've been in
situations that were not thatfar off and and having showing a
little bit of grace andhumility to someone who's in
that situation, especially whenyou don't have to, that can be a
(41:41):
game changer for that person,and that can be.
It doesn't cost anything itdoesn't cost anything.
Speaker 1 (41:47):
I am very much so now , that person that gives grace.
If someone's having a bad dayat work or, honestly, if
someone's in the hospital andbeing a straight up a-hole, I'm
giving them grace.
You're in the hospital.
I know you don't want to behere, so I'm cracking to you.
I know you're not having a goodday.
But even just in public orwhatever.
If someone is just being ana-hole, I just think in my head
(42:10):
I don't know what they're goingthrough, I'm going to give them
a little grace.
It really does take a lot forme for someone to make me upset
by their actions, because Ireally do try to give people
grace, because I've been throughso much in my whole life and so
now I'm just like something'sgoing on in their lives that
(42:32):
Look at you cool cucumber.
Speaker 2 (42:33):
I love it.
But it does give you someperspective to go through some
things and to for people to nothave treated us that way, for
people to have taken a differentaction or a different yeah, and
a different approach.
But now being in positionswhere you can actually create
that kindness and create that,that just truly grace.
It doesn't take anything rightor like even gifts, like joke
(42:55):
with someone in a bad situationto get a little lighter.
It can make a world ofdifference.
It really can.
Speaker 1 (43:00):
And that's where you also just brought this full
circle as well of the fan mailthat we sent in of her just
treated like crap and beingbelittled.
Honestly and for something notrelevant to what's going on.
She went in for back pain.
Leave her bariatric surgery outof this, come on, and actually
I will attest to I've lostweight and I don't have any back
(43:22):
pain anymore, where I used tohave crippling back pain and
yeah, so that's the world needsmore yeah.
Provide health care providerslike me and you Maybe more
people would not let things goas far as they do.
Speaker 2 (43:41):
Totally.
I really think that a lot ofpeople don't.
It's just the same thing as whowants to be humiliated, who
wants to feel like they're beingjudged and they're being shamed
and they're at the last resort.
Nobody wants to feel that way,and so if we all take just a
little step in our day,especially as healthcare
providers, to make people feellike they're human and like we
(44:04):
can relate to them and like weeven if you are tired and you're
on your last string or whateverit's really just the ability to
not make someone feel bad andinstead maybe try to make
someone feel a little betterthat's it.
That's all it is, that is all itis, and yeah, and then I think
we could all actually helppeople do better overall.
(44:25):
And maybe you're right, maybenot even get people to the point
where they need our services.
How awesome would that be.
I would love for me to beobsolete one day.
That'd be so cool, so you andme.
Well, I think it's a toughsubject.
Speaker 1 (44:42):
I think it's a good one and I think a lot of people
will, oh my gosh, resonate withit.
Holy moly, okay, yep.
And I'm keeping these, I'm notediting this stuff out, because
people are like yep, tammy word,brain farts.
Words are hard yeah it's allright.
Speaker 2 (45:01):
It's all right, I all right, it's been a long week,
it's like a holiday week andthere's been a lot going on.
Yes, yes, I'm really, I'm justreally grateful you shared that,
because that's not easy.
None of this is easy, it isn'tbut you're doing it anyway and I
think it's.
It really does help and Irelate to it.
I can only imagine how otherpeople relate to it too.
But, man, am I glad that thisexists now.
(45:22):
And this is something Because,as a bariatric surgery, patient.
Speaker 1 (45:26):
We already feel pretty alone, and then to add
mental health issues andrelationship issues and all of
that, it only makes it 10 timesworse.
So I just want to thankeverybody for listening.
We appreciate it so much.
We're going to keep doing thiswith our busy, crazy lives, so
thank you all for supporting us.
You can we did find out onSpotify, you can send us a text
(45:48):
message which gives us that fanmail, or on Buzzsprout, or we're
on Instagram too.
So it was a good chat.
It was so nice seeing your face, maria.
Speaker 2 (45:59):
You too, tammy.
And, by the way, we've testedall the platforms.
All of the stuff works, soplease blow us up.
Speaker 1 (46:05):
All right, love you, goodbye you too, bye.
Welcome to Core Bariatrics Podcast hosted by
bariatric surgeon Dr MariaIliakova and Tami LaCose,
bariatric coordinator and apatient herself.
Our goal is building andelevating our community.
The Core Bariatrics Podcastdoes not offer medical advice,
diagnosis or treatment.
On this podcast, we aim toshare stories, support and
(00:22):
insight into the world beyondthe clinic.
Let's get into it.
Okay, maria?
so we have started getting fanmail off of Buzzsprout and it is
super crazy and it's superawesome, so I wanted to share
one with you, okay, yes, please,so bear with my stutters if I
have any, because reading justAnyways.
So here we go.
(00:43):
This lady says I just foundyour podcast and I'm currently
on episode three.
I just wanted to share a storyof something that happened
recently.
I am currently on class numberseven of 10 to get gastric
bypass surgery.
I hurt my back exercising andhad to go to urgent care.
I told the doctor there I wascurrently in the process of
(01:04):
getting surgery.
She said without hesitation youare too young, I'm 41.
You can do this on your ownwithout surgery.
She continues to say.
The doctor said I don'tunderstand all these surgeries.
Americans are so lazy.
Oh my gosh, okay.
She was acting as this was theeasy way out.
(01:26):
The thing that bothered me morewas the fact that she assumed I
was lazy.
Ain't that the truth?
He continues on saying firstoff, I work in a warehouse where
I walk seven to eight miles pershift with constantly lifting
boxes of 25 to 50 pounds,nonstop, all shift.
Oh my gosh.
She says I'm lifting basicallyone of these units every four to
(01:48):
10 seconds.
Good gravy, that's a wholeworkout.
Oh my God Okay.
She continues to say.
Secondly, I have four kids athome who I care for, so I'm in
no way lazy.
It's the fact that that adoctor, who should be on my team
or at least support me,basically put me down, calling
me lazy and saying that thesesurgeries, these types of
(02:10):
surgeries, are unnecessary.
Anyway, I'm grateful to findyour podcast and, even though
I'm only three episodes in, I'velearned a lot and appreciate
the information you are sharing.
Yay, thank you.
If this person is listening.
I want to say thank you forlistening and thank you for
writing in, because a thingobviously Tell me your thoughts,
because I know you have some PGor No-ish.
Speaker 2 (02:35):
PG.
Speaker 1 (02:37):
I have what, even with my primary care doctor, who
I do very much so enjoy and Ihave always before, even way
before I actually did havesurgery I wanted to go through
the process and I wanted him toforward some office visit notes
to that program and he justseemed very eerie about it.
Yeah, I don't know, and I eventalking to people, health care
(03:01):
providers now that I'm back inthe hospital, the easy way out
thing is still very much a thingand it's so hard to not get
frustrated about so hard.
Speaker 2 (03:13):
Yeah, I agree.
I agree, and I think part of itis when we don't know something
, when we're not familiar withsomething, it's scary to us.
Imagine a new technology, likewhen you first got your iPhone.
You may have been reallyexcited, but you were also like
how do I use this thing?
And skeptical or I don't know.
Like anytime you use a newtechnology or you learn
something, you're like I don'tknow, that doesn't sound right,
(03:34):
I don't know about this.
And for a lot of reasons, peopleapproach bariatric surgery that
way, even if they're in thehealthcare field.
Sometimes, especially ifthey're in the healthcare field.
We've seen this from all kindsof people and I continue to see
this all the time where peopleare trying to school us, for
instance, on how pointless thesesurgeries are and how easy it
is to lose weight and how muchof a not big deal this is.
(03:55):
And, to be honest with you, Iwish it were true.
I wish that we didn't need todo surgery for this.
I wish it were easy to solve.
I wish 60% of the populationdidn't have extra weight.
That'd be cool, but that's justnot the case and I don't know.
Here's the thing that kind ofalways I just always have a
question about is as a doctor oras a healthcare provider in
(04:19):
general, if you don't know aboutsomething in medicine.
If you don't know aboutsomething in medicine, why do we
?
Speaker 1 (04:28):
not have the curiosity to ask and learn more
about it and just project youropinions on patients Right.
Speaker 2 (04:34):
Because I'm like if I hear about something that,
let's say, I'm not an expert ineverything, right, but if the
heart doctors, if thecardiologists that I'm
interacting with is like, hey,we've got this new thing that we
use and it works really well,and I'm like, okay, cool, I
don't know anything about it, ifI want to have an opinion about
it, I'm going to start learningabout it, ask questions, learn
(04:55):
how it works, maybe go evenwatch how it works or watch some
videos on it or something.
Talk to someone who does it.
Why on earth would I just sitthere and say, oh, that's
garbage, that's trash.
You're lazy to use this deviceinstead of using some other
older device that we knowalready works.
What is the deal?
Speaker 1 (05:15):
there.
Well, I do think that'shealthcare in a nutshell,
honestly.
Let's be honest, I feel likeeven the drug reps that come in
or this is the best product everand we're like, oh, here's
another to learn about andwhatever.
So we tend to push it asidewhen in reality, 20 years down
the line, we find out it'sactually a pretty good thing.
And I'm really this whole easyway out thing.
(05:36):
Obviously we have an episode onthe easy way out and how it's
not the easy way out, and forone for this lady specifically,
I really want her to know.
I hope this person, this doctoror anybody does not change your
opinion on doing this foryourself.
And it's not the easy way out.
(05:57):
A lot of people do think it isRight, but I think a lot of
people don't have surgerybecause they are afraid of what
people think.
Speaker 2 (06:05):
Oh, totally, because imagine like you're already
having to feel uncomfortablebecause we're now focusing on
the one thing.
That's like super stigmatizedand you need to feel bad about
all the time anyway.
And now you're taking actionsto do something about it.
And now you're doing somethingthat people will judge no matter
what you do.
Speaker 1 (06:23):
There's really no winning here?
Speaker 2 (06:24):
There's just no winning.
People are going to think it'sbad to do it.
People think it's bad not to doit and, honestly, I was just
having a conversation with oneof my family members and he had
a great saying about this, whichis everyone has opinions, or
opinions are like navelsEveryone's got them and there's
a worse version of this, which,anyway, but the whole idea of
being like everyone is going tohave an opinion, and part of the
(06:47):
reason why you and I arechatting about this and are
getting this kind of fan mailthat's so cool that we are
getting yeah, it is cool Is,yeah, it's because we're trying
to share the message, and sharethe message from a really
informed standpoint.
We've taken care of hundreds ofpatients.
Both of us have been involvedin creating a program and
building a program and getting aprogram through reaccreditation
(07:09):
, which is really challenging todo through ASMBS, and so we
know our stuff, okay, andthere's a lot of people in this
industry that we've interviewedas well that really know their
stuff even more than you and Ido by a fair share.
Oh, absolutely the thing.
Maybe we're all crazy, maybethe thousands of us that are in
this industry helping peoplelose weight this way and not
(07:29):
just lose weight but actuallyget off of diabetes medications
and be able to not have to havesurgery for their knees because
their knees get better whenthere is loss this way.
Maybe we're all crazy, but whatif we're not Exactly?
What if we're actually doingsomething that helps people in a
way that nothing else can,which all the data suggests that
(07:51):
?
So it's easy to to deny, andit's easy to be skeptical and
not educate yourself and toignore this and to call people
lazy.
It's super easy to do that.
What's not easy is to do itanyway, and that's why I respect
the heck out of you and out ofthe tens of thousands higher
(08:11):
than that, hundreds of thousandsof people who do go through
these surgeries safely and doreally well with them every year
.
I think it's amazing thatpeople have to battle this from
their own doctors and they do itanyway.
Speaker 1 (08:23):
Yeah, yeah, absolutely I.
That's why I want to continueto do this and continue to make
awareness just of the good, thebad, the ugly so people cause it
really has changed my life somuch, a lot for the good.
But today we're going to talkabout the not so good.
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (08:42):
Yeah, and that's important, because I think we
are not trying to show this as arosy only picture.
I think we're trying to besuper realistic that with any
change that people go through,there's going to be positive,
there's going to be negative,and, yeah, let's.
So.
What are we going to talk abouttoday?
Speaker 1 (08:57):
We're going to talk about my mental health, have
things that you can talk aboutto just with your journey in
life, obviously and surgeon, ohmy goodness, I've always talked
to you about I've always.
Before surgery, I did so muchresearch.
I to and from work one houreach way.
(09:17):
I was listening to pod well,more so YouTube videos and just
whatever I could, and so I feltlike I was prepared that for
anything that came my way,whether it came to relationships
or gaining weight or just allof it, and that I was all wrong.
Speaker 2 (09:31):
I think you were more prepared than most people, but
I don't know.
There's a limit to how preparedyou can be until you actually
go through it.
Speaker 1 (09:39):
Journey.
100% is different.
I actually had a friendrecently say I wish my mom was
doing the surgery so that Icould know how it goes for her.
So I can do it and I'm sitting.
I'm like that's not how itworks.
Everybody's is literallydifferent.
She may become intolerant andoh, I'm not going to do that
because she became lactoseintolerant.
(10:00):
You could not.
But during my mental healtheval I was encouraged to stay
away from alcohol.
Due to just mine and myfamily's risk factors, alcohol
would never be a problem becauseI never really cared to get
drunk.
I grew up really quick, reallyearly, and I was hanging out
with my brother that was fouryears older than me, so I think
(10:22):
I got my drinking out of mysystem a lot earlier than.
But anyways, never have reallycared to get drunk.
So I didn't think alcohol wouldbecome a problem.
And it has.
It has or has or did.
Speaker 2 (10:36):
I'm still working through it and yeah, that's a
really big thing to share.
So first of all, thank you,because that's not easy.
Can you tell me more?
Speaker 1 (10:49):
Yeah, obviously you can't eat anymore.
You can't eat your feelings,and so I was having big, big
feelings, big problems.
My husband and I have beentogether almost a decade.
We met each other literally atour lowest point.
He was just getting divorcedand living in his brother's
house and I was living in lowincome housing, being a single
(11:09):
mom going to college.
Both had absolutely nothing andwe built our life a pretty good
one.
We both have very decent jobsand I thought nothing could come
between us.
When we got married I I wasbigger.
We were both kind of homebodies.
Now I want to go out and dothings and he has said in the
past he was not ready for that.
(11:30):
180 of you want to go out anddo things, even if you are in
sweatpants and in a hoodie,where before I wouldn't want to
go out and do things.
So now I want to go out and dothings and, as adults, most of
the time when you go out and dothings, there's alcohol involved
.
Now my tolerance.
I did tell you in the past thatit didn't change much.
(11:53):
I've realized it has Not crazywise, but you do get drunk
quicker, obviously.
So that is one reason why wetell people to stay away from
alcohol Not stay away from itbut be cautious with it because
one drink, especially with abypass, can literally have you
(12:16):
toast.
And with me going out and doingthings and hanging out with
people that don't have kids, Iwas drinking a lot more, even
Wednesday night.
One Wednesday night I got offof work and I work in a hospital
.
It was a hard day.
I told my husband I was goingto the bar and went to the bar
and closed it down on aWednesday.
Speaker 2 (12:35):
So it just became.
Speaker 1 (12:39):
I can't eat my feelings because stuff with my
husband was going bad per se,but not great yeah there's some
challenges there, for sure.
Yeah, and again, with that I wasdrinking more to not feel those
feelings.
And another thing we're allwarned that our friendships are
(13:00):
going to change yourrelationships, you're going to
lose friends, whatever.
But you ready for this?
I was prepared, I was preparedfor losing my friend or losing
some friends, relationshipschanging, but I was not prepared
and I don't think we haveprepared anybody for the
loneliness that comes with that.
And it's a domino effect whenyou have the same friend group
(13:24):
as other friends, cause they'reall in the friend group.
So that is another reason ofdrinking, of just I don't have
as many friends.
And now I'm hanging out withthese people that don't have
kids, that can go out on aWednesday night and get drunk
and draining away those thoughtsand feelings, and nobody
prepares you for that loneliness.
Speaker 2 (13:44):
That is yeah that is so real honestly, tammy, and I
know that's not easy to sharebecause that's super private,
but I think it actually.
I think a lot of people gothrough this and we couch it
sometimes as, oh, you replaceone thing with another, but I
think this is a little bitdifferent than replacement and I
think a lot of people oh manwhen you go through this, like
(14:04):
you said, like so many thingschange, it's a bit of a domino
effect and you're absolutelyright, I hadn't really thought
about how much when adults goout alcohol is involved, for
sure, everything, even if you goto dinner.
Speaker 1 (14:19):
I'm having margarita.
Speaker 2 (14:21):
That's right, that's right and that's just normal.
Normal like adult going out forthe most part right.
If you're out at a party, ifyou're out with friends, if
you're out at sports doingtailgating or something, or out
at a game there's that's themost common thing is to have a
beer in your hand or haveanother drink in your hand.
So, and the other thing is, ahuge majority of population has
not gone through this surgeryand does not have this same
(14:43):
right.
They can yeah, they can have adrink or two and not have the
same effect as somebody who doeshave the surgery.
So it's hard.
It's like yet another thingthat reminds you that you're
different now.
Speaker 1 (14:53):
Yeah, we've never actually said that you are
different.
Yeah, even if you're adifferent person, but, like you,
are different from others.
Speaker 2 (15:02):
Yeah, you are.
We haven't In in a fundamentalway, like in a fundamental way
that can never be changed, thatcan never go back and you didn't
save my stomach to stitch itback in there, tammy, you were
specifically.
I did.
I carry it with me everywhere Itravel.
No, that would be so crazy, butyou're like you're.
You are fundamentally differentthan most people in a way that
(15:23):
other people can't relate toyeah, and it doesn't matter how
much you tell people, it doesn'tmatter how much they try to
understand, I think like theywon't.
Speaker 1 (15:30):
Well, it's so hard to get people to understand,
because you don't understand.
So, like people, some peopletell me they work.
Now the wrong.
I've realized the the wrongpeople are telling me I'm a
totally different person, butthey can't tell me why or how.
Like how am I a differentperson?
But then the people that are,which I this is another pinpoint
(15:52):
I wanted to make of youactually figure out who your
true friends are, because whoare not intimidated or jealous
of you and they see the ways youare changing as truly for the
best.
I actually found this quotethat I really liked, that there
are people that will neversupport you because it's you.
There are people that willalways support you because it's
(16:12):
you, and you have to find thosepeople.
And so those, those people thatalways will support me for me,
have said you haven't changed,you just have your way of
thinking.
Is changing Personality ofhonestly, this personality of
being big and bubbly has alwaysbeen me, but now it's to the
(16:35):
whole world, not just my closefriends.
So some people are finding myvery bubbly-ness to everybody
coming off as flirty.
Speaker 2 (16:47):
Interesting.
Speaker 1 (16:48):
Oh yeah.
Speaker 2 (16:49):
Interesting.
I think confidence definitelyis misread a lot of times, or oh
man.
That's an interesting can ofworms that we have opened here,
Because that personality changeit's not like a personality
changes, it's almost.
I just really love what yousaid there.
You're now more comfortableletting the public in on that or
letting other people in on that, not just the people that are
(17:09):
close to you, and I think that'ssuper true, because when we're
comfortable, more comfortablewith ourselves, we're more
comfortable sharing our trueselves with more people rather
than trying to hide it from themajority of people.
Speaker 1 (17:21):
So that's a really interesting I have always been a
big bubbly person.
I love dancing, I love justbeing cute.
I've seen it.
Me no, but now I do it anywhere.
If I were before, I wouldhonestly before I would have to
get pretty tipsy to dancebecause I didn't like any
(17:44):
attention on me at all and I'mlike man, put me in a I don't
need at the baseball field.
If they're playing a good song,I'll do it.
Speaker 2 (17:53):
I love it.
You're like bring it, becausenow you're not so worried that
people are judging you or peopleI think right, or people are.
Yeah.
You're like I don't care, likepeople can judge me and I still
feel good about myself.
Speaker 1 (18:02):
But then people look at that negatively, so tell me
that.
So that's where I'm struggling.
Speaker 2 (18:08):
I've changed for the best, but I don't think we can
ever control other people right,that is something I'm learning.
Yeah, and this is a lifelongthing.
I say this as if it's oh yes, Icome from Mount Wisdom and I
know these things.
You're both growing, yeah, andI think it's hard because I also
I come from a background andjust an environment where
(18:32):
control is a really big deal andalways being self-control
that's a big deal, but alsoexerting control on other people
and trying to find a way to dothat in situations.
And, to be honest with you, Iprobably in part became a
surgeon because I'm drawn tosituations in which I can
control things to some extent,even though, ironically, I think
(18:53):
in the OR, like you, are thereby the grace of a lot of times.
90% of the time things areunder control and things are
going well, and then 10% of thetime 5% to 10% of the time you
are very much relying on a lotof coordination and teamwork and
help.
Speaker 1 (19:09):
Yeah, and you're learning how to control or
navigate, not being in controlor something being out of your
control.
Speaker 2 (19:17):
Exactly, exactly, yes , because I think, like true
control or true it's not eventhe control is the wrong word,
but true, like management almostof a situation is having trust
both ways, having trust in otherpeople and other people having
trust in you that you're allgoing to have each other's backs
and you all have a shared,unified goal that you're going
to go towards together, andwhether that's in the OR because
(19:39):
someone's not doing well, orwhether that's in a friendship
where people respect and loveeach other and want to be there
together and want to have a goodtime together.
I don't know.
I don't know that it's thatdifferent.
To be honest with you, becauseI think we do sometimes think of
this idea of control, ratherthan how can we be on the same
page?
Yeah, and I don't know, I'm notwise about this, but I just I
(20:04):
think a lot of it is you reallycannot control what other people
think or do.
Speaker 1 (20:09):
Can only control our reaction to things.
My friend actually made a goodpoint the other day.
She was saying she has afive-year-old son and anybody
that has any boys in generalknow they're just crazy.
But she apparently said to himone day like you are frustrating
me.
But then she had to rethink toherself no, I am making myself
(20:31):
frustrated, his actions arehelping that, but I am getting
myself frustrated.
I am only in control of.
I am in control of my feelingsand how I react to things.
And I'm like you have a goodpoint there and I've realized
now because my flirtate the waypeople perceive my friendliness
as flirtation now has comearound in my very small town as
(20:56):
um, flirting and beingunfaithful.
And I'm just telling you thisnow and I have not told you that
previously, and so I have thepast me would have just blown up
on on facebook, making afacebook status or doing all
these things where actually atthis time, facebook statuses
have been being made about me.
Um, and I've realized sometimeyou just don't react.
(21:22):
It's hard not to every day.
I'm like I just want to give itto them, but I need to not
react because it's not going toget anywhere and I need to not
let it affect me because I knowdeep down I've not done anything
wrong and people are making mefeel like I've done something
wrong.
Speaker 2 (21:44):
That's super immature of you, I think, but it's tough
because there's always thingsthat can provoke us and for a
lot of reasons, we have certaintriggers or certain hooks.
But you're absolutely right,it's up to us whether or not we
react to them.
And the thing is, it's not evenso much like whether we react
to them, it's what outcome.
We're adults, right, we canactually choose what outcome we
(22:07):
want.
To some extent, right and doespiling on and adding to the fuel
like adding fuel to the fire?
Does that make the fire go away?
Speaker 1 (22:15):
Usually, not Exactly and actually I have learned this
whole scenario has come fullcircle and things were actually
because, as I said, alcohol hasbecome a problem, was did
whatever and during thisspecific time.
I don't remember any of this,so I did black out and so I was
(22:35):
just going off of what otherpeople were telling me and third
hand telling me and otherpeople come to find out the
initial accusation wasn't evencorrect.
I've been in my head for a fewweeks and so the truth came out
because it all came full circle.
(22:56):
And now even my husband and Iare just laughing because it's
like people are ridiculousbecause who I was apparently
being flirtatious to, or extrato is a person.
Even my husband looked at meand is like dude.
I don't think so.
No, I don't think so.
(23:17):
I've been hard on my mentalhealth, because that's a lot of
things at once.
Speaker 2 (23:24):
That's a whole bandwagon.
Speaker 1 (23:25):
My marriage- and then people adding on to the
marriage struggle is a lot.
It's a lot.
Speaker 2 (23:32):
And to be fair like we all live in small communities
of some kind or another, likewhether it's we live in a small
town and that's just what thedynamic is.
But I moved to New Yorkrecently to start an MBA program
and it's gone really well.
But we also have a smallcommunity of people doing the
MBA program and there's a bunchof other things and you always
there is always an inner circleor inner circles that you're
(23:53):
part of and the dynamics therecan be really tricky sometimes.
So I don't think any of us areimmune to this effect of when we
go through really big lifechanges, especially through
bariatric surgery, yourrelationships with people are
going to change and people aregoing to judge and people are
going to make assumptions, andyou're already going through a
(24:13):
lot of changes that you have todeal with even without any of
that, and then on top of it,you're absolutely right Like if
loneliness starts to be an issueif the things, the people and
the activities that you used todo are changing drastically.
Speaker 1 (24:27):
it can be really unsettling Very very much so,
and so this only solidified whyI wanted to do this podcast and
why I haven't been as active onour core bariatrics community
Facebook page.
But I need to be.
This is the time that I wantour community and I want other
(24:48):
people to have our community,because in my small town not a
lot of people have had bariatricsurgery, so I don't have those,
and obviously, the program thatI went to and had surgery at
I'm no longer a part of, so Idon't have a support system
either.
I want us to be able to createthat space for people that are
(25:08):
having this loneliness andknowing that they're not the
only one feeling this, and Iwant to shout the roost top of
now.
There is nothing fricking wrongwith you that making you littler
for now being more confident,now having more energy, now just
doing out and going out anddoing the things you want to do
(25:31):
or not doing the things youdon't want to do, because I feel
something I'm not afraid to sayno, even my husband saying no,
and so maybe that has becomeanother thing of if I didn't
want to that day, even if I saidI would previously, I'm not
doing it.
I am not putting on a smilethat day to go hang out with
people, even if they are my bestfriends.
(25:52):
If you are my best friends, youshould be like are you okay?
Is your mental health okay?
And if I say no, you're justlike okay, we'll talk about it
later.
Or if you want it to do not letpeople make you feel better or
worse or horrible for becoming abetter person.
I think a lot of us that havestruggled with obesity already
(26:14):
struggle with ourself-confidence.
Of us that have struggled withobesity already struggle with
our self-confidence, self-doubtand all of that.
Don't doubt yourself.
Don't doubt yourself andcontinue to do, but also be
self-aware.
Like me, drinking all the timemight've been fun.
(26:34):
It's not a good thing.
So being self-aware People havesaid hey, going to the bar with
so-and-so who drinks all thetime and doesn't have kids
probably is a good thing.
Now I could have turned aroundand been you're just jealous.
You did a bit whatever that wascoming from a good place and I
needed to be self-aware and.
But if someone's just tellingyou you've changed, you're
(26:56):
different, I, I just don't feellike we're the same friend,
whatever that.
That's a them problem.
I don't feel like morals change.
I don't think we deeply insidechange.
I think our outside justchanged and how we project
ourself and you're right.
Speaker 2 (27:14):
so so you're right.
Very few people change valuesthrough this process, but very
many people change how theyinteract with the world.
Yeah, what the world gets tosee of them, who gets to?
Speaker 1 (27:27):
see that and people don't like boundaries and people
don't like some, people don'tlike people controlled Whatever.
Speaker 2 (27:36):
But yeah, boundaries people who have good mental
health and have the ability tosay no and have the ability to
say yes with mindfulness arereally difficult to control.
Speaker 1 (27:46):
I feel like I am very , very.
I have good sight forgaslighting now.
Like I can tell you're tryingto gaslight me from a million
miles away, type of thing.
Speaker 2 (28:00):
That is an interesting statement, and
that's an interesting thing.
So what is gaslighting?
Because this is a term I hadn'teven really understood until a
couple of months ago myself.
So what do you mean by?
Speaker 1 (28:10):
that.
So I would actually have tolook up the actual definition to
you, would actually have tolook up the actual definition to
me.
But to me it is you telling mesomething that even you know is
wrong or that is not true.
But you truly making me feeland making me question if it's
true or like for me.
(28:31):
People have said you've changedand I've changed for the worst.
Let's say that and I'm like no,I think I have changed for
better, but the way that theykeep digging and digging and
then you got me thinking thatmaybe I have changed for the
worst.
Speaker 2 (28:49):
So making you believe something that actually isn't
true, right.
Yeah, I think that's exactlythat's what I've.
That's what I understand ofgaslighting too is trying to
make somebody believe analternative reality, basically
something that's not true.
I agree, and I think that's andthat's tough, because I think,
like you said, we all want to beself-aware and we do want to be
(29:09):
open, especially in our closerelationships, to people telling
us like hey, something doesn'tseem right, what's going on?
We don't want to be stuck inour ways in a way that other
people don't get to have animpact on us.
Then we're just robots or supernarcissistic or something.
I don't think that's goodeither.
But I think there's adifference between somebody
saying, hey, I think thatsomething's not right, or hey, I
(29:31):
didn't like how you treated mewhen you did that, or something
like that.
I think those things are superwelcome For me, 100%.
Speaker 1 (29:38):
I want constructive criticism.
I'm realizing a lot of theworld doesn't like constructive
criticism because they but mepersonally.
If I hurt your feelings, I wantto know, but so I look to
gaslight someone means tomanipulate another person into
doubting their own perceptions,experiences or understanding of
an event, Telling me that I havechanged for the worse and
(29:58):
actually getting me to believethat, and I think sometimes that
can trigger a conversation ofwhat do you mean by that, like
how does this affect you?
Speaker 2 (30:09):
But if it's just to be like I don't like this new
version of you because it makesme feel unwelcome or it makes me
feel threatened or whatever,then that's you're right.
That's not something you canchange.
Speaker 1 (30:17):
Someone coming up to me and being like you're
drinking too much, even thoughmy perspective, my perspective
at that time, was I'm justhaving fun and I'm more for me.
That's another thing we have to.
We do need to figure out, we doneed to be a little bit selfish
, because I know back then notat all like doing anything for
myself was limited.
(30:38):
But there is a fine line ofdoing things for yourself and
your mental health and and,honestly, just being selfish
it's okay to be a little selfish.
It's okay to go get your hairdone and spend a little extra
money on that.
It's okay to go get your nailsdone.
It's okay to go to dinner withyour friend.
It's not okay to be like I'mgoing to have fun 24 seven while
(31:03):
you sit home with the kids anddon't have life, or even see
your wife.
Speaker 2 (31:05):
So, yes, that's a really big yes and that's
actually a really critical thing, I think, because I have
struggled with this forever.
As a like surgery resident, forinstance, I never, ever, had
had any self-care the most thingI would ever do is work out.
I got you your first pedicure,you paid for it, but it was
literally one of my.
Speaker 1 (31:26):
I think I had a total of three pedicures in my life
and now I see you with yournails done all the time and I
love it.
Speaker 2 (31:32):
My nails are done, and it isn't just a money thing.
It literally is a bit of aself-respect thing, to me at
least, and, believe me, I am notjudging anyone on what they
decide to do or not do withtheir body in terms of self-care
.
Everyone has a differentversion of that, but I can tell
you the guilt that I have feltwhen I was busy, super busy or
(31:53):
super pressured with otherthings, and I'm not even a
parent.
I can imagine what it feelslike as a parent, like you've
talked about, of any money orany time being spent on me
instead of other things thatrely on me or are important to
do.
But, to be honest with you,that left me feeling completely
high and dry all the time.
All the time it meant I wasn'tgetting enough sleep, it meant I
(32:14):
wasn't eating well, it meant Ididn't have energy because I
wasn't exercising well, it meantthat I was more of a train
wreck always than I wanted to be, and it meant I wasn't taking
care of other people as well asI could, because you weren't
taking care of yourself.
Exactly Because I was running onempty all the time, and I think
a lot of people run on emptyall the time, and imagine if you
(32:34):
ran your car that way.
Right, Well don't ask myhusband On empty it would stop
working.
Okay, I've done that to a carbefore.
I forgot to change my oil forforever when I was younger.
I just always have an E and Iliterally stole the car on the
highways in a little town inMissouri.
It was great when I was 18.
But you learn right.
You learn that's not the way totreat objects in your life.
(32:55):
You can't just run everythingon bone dry and expect it to
function.
But we still treat ourselvesthat way sometimes and I'm
really glad you said that,because okay, so I'm sorry I'm
going on a bit of a tangent here.
I recently met somebody who's Ilove to my tangents.
I know I'm sorry I will stoptalking, I promise, but I
recently met somebody who's verybusy and and doesn't be outside
(33:17):
of medicine, but also likesuper busy, super pressured.
And as I was learning aboutthis person, he was explaining
to me like how, what he does forworking out, and he has a hobby
of playing guitar and does alot of things, and pretty much
every time I interact with himhe's like work, either working
really hard or doing somethingthat's self-care.
(33:38):
I actually really admire that,because the understanding of
what it takes to fuel yourselfjust like a car or just like any
other vehicle fortransportation, understanding
that you are a finite resource,understanding that you require
some care in order to be able todo other things in your life,
(33:59):
is a part of growing up.
It's a part of understandingright Like if it's not modeled
for you by other people in yourchildhood.
Speaker 1 (34:06):
Oh my gosh Right.
Speaker 2 (34:07):
Yes, Because I also grew up with a parent or parents
that just didn't take care ofthemselves like that either.
Workaholics right, but theconsequences of that can be
really bad, even if they comedown the road even if they don't
come immediately and it meansthat you burn out, you're not
performing at your best.
Other things start to suffer,and that's just in work.
(34:30):
In your family, it means yourfamily members can suffer as a
result, and I don't know, so I'mjust glad you brought that up,
because I think that's somethingthat has taken me a really long
time to wrap my head around.
So I'm glad that you'rebringing that up because I
relate to that a lot.
Speaker 1 (34:44):
Well, and this just proves that bringing this full
circle of mental health has alot to do with self-care.
And yeah, so I have Definitelyhit my low of low.
I think I'm going up from goingup now, because I think the
last time I talked to you you'relike, how are you, tammy?
(35:05):
And I just started bawling andyou're like, oh my gosh, what's
wrong?
And just, unfortunately, me andyou, we are really busy and
it's hard to have longerconversations, especially with
my kids crazy all around.
But I think I have hit low oflow.
But I'm also a very self and Ithink you could agree I'm a very
self aware person.
I always have been, because ofthe mother that I had, that I
(35:32):
always had to be self aware ofmy emotions, my whatever.
This didn't last very long.
This whole drinking thingdidn't last very long and
honestly, I don't think alcoholis the problem, because I still
just I don't love it by anymeans.
I think it's my mental healththat I need to figure out how to
cope with those things, becausenow when I was working with you
(35:56):
we were working in a biggercity that I would make sure my
nails on two weeks or so when Igot paid.
Speaker 2 (36:02):
I would always be like.
Speaker 1 (36:03):
Hey, I need to go hang out with Maria just for
some time and now that where myjob is and my hours, I don't
have that.
I'm not in a big city, so mymental health?
I just went to alcohol wherenow I need to go therapy and
alcohol is accessible.
Speaker 2 (36:21):
I think we forget sometimes that we don't.
It's not like you can just goon a hike anytime you want to,
or hang out in a bigger citywhenever you want to.
You have three kids, you havestuff to do, you have work.
You have a finite schedule too.
So I think that I think beingsuper realistic about the fact
that what's nearby and that'salcohol for a lot of people, or
drugs potentially, or a numberof other things, like some
(36:44):
people start to have a lot ofsexual activity that they didn't
before, or even gambling ofscratch offs Correct, and I'm
not.
I am not saying any of this tohave any kind of moral hopefully
people don't think I have amoral say on this, I don't but
just to be aware of the factthat when we are struggling and
when we're going through a lotof change, it's much, much
(37:05):
easier to try to find comfort inthings that maybe you wouldn't
otherwise.
And especially, what would yousay actually, okay, tami, if you
were to give advice to someonewho sees you going through
something, a friend or neighboror someone in your community
what advice would you give themto either be helpful or just at
(37:28):
least not harmful?
Speaker 1 (37:30):
Find that person to talk to, because, heck, even
having that conversation withyou and just I don't know you,
just you really do uplift me andI feel like we're both each
other's therapists.
But that's true and I feel likeif I saw someone struggling
like that, I'd be like I'm herefor you, what can I do to help
(37:51):
you?
And I would also, just I wouldbe open and honest with them,
like I needed some other friendsto be of.
Like this is becoming a problem.
Be of like this is becoming aproblem.
What can I do to help you?
And unfortunately, and I knownot, everybody has.
Speaker 2 (38:10):
This is just finding that person to help you, even
one person, and it does just oneperson.
It really like I have a fewfriends you're one of them that
when I just had quite the yearin the past we both have, yeah,
gone on, but you have definitelybeen one of those anchors to me
and anchor in a good way likeanchor in reality and anchor in
understanding that there's stillwonder and beauty and growth
(38:32):
and amazing things going on inmy life and I'm lucky enough to
have you in my life and have afew other people that are that
kind of person for me.
Like you said, not everybodyhas them, but it is worth
thinking about, especially forthe people who haven't had
surgery, for anyone listeningwho has not had surgery.
Thinking about the few peopleat least a few people in your
(38:52):
life, like one to a few, whocould serve as that for you, and
maybe even having aconversation with them ahead of
time or having them listen tothis episode ahead of time.
Speaker 1 (39:06):
Because I will say, though, that people change.
That's true, Cause my this iswhere my biggest thing, my
bestest, bestest friend, that wethought nothing could ever it
did.
Speaker 2 (39:16):
It did.
So, yeah, you went through thattoo, like with your family
member.
Speaker 1 (39:20):
Yes, and so that's another thing with this whole
platform.
Look, if you don't have anybodyto turn to send us a message on
Instagram or whatever, I lookat my messages the messages
usually and I'll share them withyou.
But I even check in on peoplethat have messaged us in the
past and whatnot, and just like,hey, how are you doing?
(39:41):
So?
We need to be that person foryou.
We be that person for you.
we're pretty uplifting andthat's yeah we haven't heard it
all but we've heard a lot forsure, and continue to yeah very
much.
Speaker 2 (39:51):
We've heard a lot and I think it's really I don't
know.
I'm just gonna, okay, I'm gonnashare a story that may be a
little irrelevant here, but Ithink, yeah, I'll share it.
It it's a little, yes, Okay.
So as a when you're doingsurgery on call and I've now
been traveling all over thecountry to do that, since I'm
also doing like an MBA- programanyway.
So there's a lot going on, andrecently I was taking an object
(40:13):
out of someone's bottom becausethey had put something there and
it got stuck, okay, and thatcan be super embarrassing and it
is a situation nobody wants tobe in.
Nobody wants to be there.
The patient doesn't want to bethere, I don't necessarily want
to be there, the nurses don'twant to be there, nobody wants
to be there Nobody wants us tobe the reality that we're
dealing with.
(40:36):
But I took the thing out of theperson's bottom at the bedside
and it was extremelyuncomfortable for everyone, but
we did it.
But we did it and we did itwith grace, we did it with
humility.
The person was watching a videoon their phone so that they
could be distracted, so theycould be relaxed, and everything
, while we avoided the OR andthe guy.
Afterwards it was actuallyreally sweet.
He asked me if he could hug meand he was crying because he was
(40:59):
.
Yeah, he was so grateful andjust wanted to say thanks.
Basically because he was likethat was a really humiliating
experience for me, but you madeit pleasant as possible.
Basically, it was like and youweren't rude and you weren't
mean and you didn't judge me,you just did your job and it was
really sweet.
Because I think sometimes weforget that we've all been in
(41:20):
embarrassing situations.
We've all been when somethingwas like okay, maybe it wasn't
something up our butts that wasstuck, but we've been in
situations that were not thatfar off and and having showing a
little bit of grace andhumility to someone who's in
that situation, especially whenyou don't have to, that can be a
(41:41):
game changer for that person,and that can be.
It doesn't cost anything itdoesn't cost anything.
Speaker 1 (41:47):
I am very much so now , that person that gives grace.
If someone's having a bad dayat work or, honestly, if
someone's in the hospital andbeing a straight up a-hole, I'm
giving them grace.
You're in the hospital.
I know you don't want to behere, so I'm cracking to you.
I know you're not having a goodday.
But even just in public orwhatever.
If someone is just being ana-hole, I just think in my head
(42:10):
I don't know what they're goingthrough, I'm going to give them
a little grace.
It really does take a lot forme for someone to make me upset
by their actions, because Ireally do try to give people
grace, because I've been throughso much in my whole life and so
now I'm just like something'sgoing on in their lives that
(42:32):
Look at you cool cucumber.
Speaker 2 (42:33):
I love it.
But it does give you someperspective to go through some
things and to for people to nothave treated us that way, for
people to have taken a differentaction or a different yeah, and
a different approach.
But now being in positionswhere you can actually create
that kindness and create that,that just truly grace.
It doesn't take anything rightor like even gifts, like joke
(42:55):
with someone in a bad situationto get a little lighter.
It can make a world ofdifference.
It really can.
Speaker 1 (43:00):
And that's where you also just brought this full
circle as well of the fan mailthat we sent in of her just
treated like crap and beingbelittled.
Honestly and for something notrelevant to what's going on.
She went in for back pain.
Leave her bariatric surgery outof this, come on, and actually
I will attest to I've lostweight and I don't have any back
(43:22):
pain anymore, where I used tohave crippling back pain and
yeah, so that's the world needsmore yeah.
Provide health care providerslike me and you Maybe more
people would not let things goas far as they do.
Speaker 2 (43:41):
Totally.
I really think that a lot ofpeople don't.
It's just the same thing as whowants to be humiliated, who
wants to feel like they're beingjudged and they're being shamed
and they're at the last resort.
Nobody wants to feel that way,and so if we all take just a
little step in our day,especially as healthcare
providers, to make people feellike they're human and like we
(44:04):
can relate to them and like weeven if you are tired and you're
on your last string or whateverit's really just the ability to
not make someone feel bad andinstead maybe try to make
someone feel a little betterthat's it.
That's all it is, that is all itis, and yeah, and then I think
we could all actually helppeople do better overall.
(44:25):
And maybe you're right, maybenot even get people to the point
where they need our services.
How awesome would that be.
I would love for me to beobsolete one day.
That'd be so cool, so you andme.
Well, I think it's a toughsubject.
Speaker 1 (44:42):
I think it's a good one and I think a lot of people
will, oh my gosh, resonate withit.
Holy moly, okay, yep.
And I'm keeping these, I'm notediting this stuff out, because
people are like yep, tammy word,brain farts.
Words are hard yeah it's allright.
Speaker 2 (45:01):
It's all right, I all right, it's been a long week,
it's like a holiday week andthere's been a lot going on.
Yes, yes, I'm really, I'm justreally grateful you shared that,
because that's not easy.
None of this is easy, it isn'tbut you're doing it anyway and I
think it's.
It really does help and Irelate to it.
I can only imagine how otherpeople relate to it too.
But, man, am I glad that thisexists now.
(45:22):
And this is something Because,as a bariatric surgery, patient.
Speaker 1 (45:26):
We already feel pretty alone, and then to add
mental health issues andrelationship issues and all of
that, it only makes it 10 timesworse.
So I just want to thankeverybody for listening.
We appreciate it so much.
We're going to keep doing thiswith our busy, crazy lives, so
thank you all for supporting us.
You can we did find out onSpotify, you can send us a text
(45:48):
message which gives us that fanmail, or on Buzzsprout, or we're
on Instagram too.
So it was a good chat.
It was so nice seeing your face, maria.
Speaker 2 (45:59):
You too, tammy.
And, by the way, we've testedall the platforms.
All of the stuff works, soplease blow us up.
Speaker 1 (46:05):
All right, love you, goodbye you too, bye.
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